sk-lore

[orchid whale]

Unironically: Alien

[hazy meadow]

but. hornet.

[mighty zealot]

CAN Y"ALL PLS STOP MEMING AND SAYING CHARACTER FROM THE FIRST GAME

this is silksong lore, not hollow knight lore

[manic pewter]

so whats the deal with the big guy that chases you in deep docks guys

[fathom hill]

I mean I hope so, Lace definitely need to sort through her self value and identity issues

[mint stratus]

How dare you insult grindle while he actively tries to steal my wallet

[stuck berry]

she'll be fine she's had many dead loved ones what's one more

[slow locust]

totally lore related 😭

[orchid whale]

Mossbag goes over it bu there's a weird amount of alien allusions with his character? I'd look his dreamers video up

[fathom hill]

And if anything Hornet is there to sustain her for s little longer

I mean yeah

[median monolith]

What's keeping hornet from reviving her dead partner with silk?

[fathom hill]

That's why Eva is so important for this throuple

[stuck berry]

is that an actual rule the rest of the mods enforce though because like I've seen other mods here not really care about or joining in talking about hollow knight characters

[fathom hill]

[mighty zealot]

they're busy sometimes

[fathom hill]

busy talking here?

[median monolith]

Who wins in a rap battle tho serious question. Sherma or myla

[manic pewter]

what are the lore implications of lugoli eating maggots

[stuck berry]

all I'm saying is there's a reason sherma survived

[fathom hill]

I mean lore from both are connected sometimes, with the parallels and stuff, as long as we don't linger too much on it

[median monolith]

Pretty sure it's like the only food source they have there

[stuck berry]

maggots are bred to be eaten

[fathom hill]

Or someone rats us out

[slow locust]

Lugoli eats another bugs

[mint stratus]

Ass jim is single handedly purifying sinners road one meal at a time

[slow locust]

not only maggots

[fathom hill]

Sherma

[manic pewter]

we dont know what gender phantom was created

[slow locust]

we only saw female weavers so much likely

[orchid whale]

Phantom is she/them

[fathom hill]

Phantom uses they them pronouns in the journal, but the needolin says sister, though we don't know who is talking

Now that I think sbt it in that needolin thing phantom is inside of a capsule, so it's likely Lace was the one talking

they/she it is

[hazy meadow]

tbh not to be a lacenet guy but i think she'd appreciate the eternal company, likely keeping lace alive just cause. like. finally someone who wont die on her

[orchid whale]

What's up with that capsule btw? Anyone else find that weird?

Like, were Lace and Phantom made in test tubes?

[slow locust]

seems more like a growing capsule

like dragon ball ts

[hazy meadow]

i personally think phantom uses it to sustain herself when shes not playing the organ

themself?

[orchid whale]

Does this imply the process for their creation wasn't as simple as magically spinning some silk to make Lace appear?

[fathom hill]

like putting your flesh in ice

[mint stratus]

Look up japanese bee fly

[hazy meadow]

phantom are you a they/them daughter

[fathom hill]

It won't mend her but she won't fade as fast

[manic pewter]

Does someone have a screenshot of the capsule?

[fathom hill]

That's actually the canon reason why she was abandoned

[orchid whale]

I do, lemme grab it

[hazy meadow]

not on hand im at school rn

[hazy meadow]

BE REAL.

[fathom hill]

Gms is not fond of trans

[hazy meadow]

GMS vc: why are both my daughters weird.

trans as in trans gender

[fathom hill]

yah and look where it took her

One trans person wronged her and now she is not fond of them

[manic pewter]

thanks!

[fathom hill]

one trans and one gay smh my head

[orchid whale]

No one is Cis in Pharloom. This is Whole Knight They/Them Song

[slow locust]

non binary most probably

[fathom hill]

what a question

[slow locust]

it's female in traslation but i'm purist so..

[fathom hill]

Oh they updated it? why are they possibly female

[manic pewter]

Yeah i dont trust translations

[manic pewter]

spanish translation lol

[fathom hill]

Ohh gotcha

[slow locust]

in traslations they are refered as she/her

[hazy meadow]

phantom: mother im a they/them
GMS: banished.
[later]
lace: mother i think i like women
GMS: okay.
lace: i think its the little spider
GMS: WHAT

[fathom hill]

I mean we do know that team cehrry has certain stuff noted for the translators, like lore and true names and stuff

[hazy meadow]

im sorry

[slow locust]

guys can we talk about the possibility of phamton saying sister to lace?

that would make more sense

[hazy meadow]

also man. looking at doodledrawsthings's hornet gijinka. oughhh

[slow locust]

and it doesn't mess up pronouns

[hazy meadow]

thats what i was thinking, it does seem to be phantom speaking, its their memory

[fathom hill]

I mean I'd consider it but again

Phantom right there is inside the capsule

Maybe sleeping or in stasis so who knows

[mint stratus]

I assumed that sister became default because all previous gms children were female

[hazy meadow]

i think the capsule just keeps them from fraying

cause the dialogue.. it feels more like phantom

[fathom hill]

Also like Hornet already defaults to a lot of people with they them already so who knows

[fathom hill]

I also thought so at first

But the context makes me doubt

Right of now could be either I think

is lugoli trans or trans

No wait we don't know how gender is assigned to bugs

[hazy meadow]

ALSO. ON THE WIKI

IT SAYS PHATNOM'S LIFE SUPPORT TANK.

[manic pewter]

huh

[hazy meadow]

under needolin locations

in the exhaust organ section

[hazy meadow]

i do think the dialogue is phantoms. especiall with talk of fading and breaking, like how phantom is
and how lace's needolin dialogue specifically says that she wont break, she won't fade. like she's refusing to accept that fate

[slow locust]

because the wiki can't be wrong

[stuck berry]

i want 50 of this scattered around the world and they give you 50 million units after finding them all

[fathom hill]

can you show the cited source?

[hazy meadow]

i cant find the citations (trying to, im on mobile bear w me)

[fathom hill]

yeah but whoevers talking is not talking in first person, they say she spun US to break to fade etc

[manic pewter]

heres the images fromt the files of phantom in needolin bits

[fathom hill]

interesting

[stuck berry]

phantom is kinda like the ghost in that "nah this kid sucks i like my tall white child better"

[slow locust]

what did it exactly say?

[fathom hill]

my headcanon its that they looked identical but phantoms just like that cuz age

[timber pond]

#hk-discussion message

[fathom hill]

Prolly I wonder if phantom did do something gms didn't like

[slow locust]

top tier comment

[fathom hill]

Or if she was flawed from the beggining

[hazy meadow]

i am on mobile n strugglinbg to navigate so bear w me

[slow locust]

no citation tho........

[fathom hill]

we still don't know if it is a life support tank

[hazy meadow]

maybe its called that in the files?

[fathom hill]

Id believe it if in the game files it was called that

[fathom hill]

yah but no citation

[hazy meadow]

trying to find if there is any

[slow locust]

huh i can't find anything like that

[hazy meadow]

its under needolin locations on the wiki

phantom's wiki page has the needolin dialogue as a reference

but thats about it

also love how in the trivia phantom's theme is literally called "phantom of the organ" in the files

[fathom hill]

thats a fun fact

[slow locust]

yeah but it's fact nonetheless

i just released that is just none the less put together 😭

[stuck berry]

so if music was the theme of this game and dreams of the previous game what could the next one be

[timber pond]

Guys i think i can predict the future or something lmao

[stuck berry]

is there a particular connection to music and dreams that ties it all narratively

[timber pond]

I alone am The Bug fossil

[slow locust]

you truly are (also this is lore channel)

[timber pond]

Allow me my singular server lore post

[fathom hill]

wut

[graceful grail]

Why is there a Void summoning stand outside queen vespa memory place?

[slow locust]

"nonetheless" is "none" "the" "less" together

[fathom hill]

oh gotcha

Also I was just saying i liked that fact

[slow locust]

those seem like 2 chests and advanced wanderer journals

[slow locust]

you have sent 1249 messages in #sk-lore

[manic pewter]

found it, its called "H78 Phantom of the Organ RESTRUCTURE-33.wav"

[graceful grail]

Its the same as the ones that the steel servant had for the rite

[slow locust]

huh??

[hazy meadow]

by the way what the heck are dregs

[graceful grail]

Have u done steel soul quest??

[hazy meadow]

love that

[orchid whale]

Collections of silk, next question

[slow locust]

it's literally not the same stand

[craggy smelt]

man, Sula's ass gets everywhere

[hazy meadow]

so like. a measurement???

[graceful grail]

The other 3 in other places

[sullen cave]

He probably means the abandoned posts that you have to go to before you can go to the steel soul boss fight

[orchid whale]

No, like- it's just a bunch of silk

[graceful grail]

Its the 3 u use to track em

[hazy meadow]

okay.

[orchid whale]

In this context, it's just leftover silk lying around

[hazy meadow]

(still confused but, hey.)

[orchid whale]

I don't know why it's left over and lying around. Related to the haunting?

[slow locust]

nothing similar? it's just red

[stuck berry]

probably just fallen from the citadel

[dusky bay]

Widow (in the bossfight) has needolin dialogue-

[slow locust]

ok

[orchid whale]

But people are tasked with going around places like Greymoor with gigantic forks and stuff so they can gather it up, kinda like this.
And then they take it back to GMS I think? Or spoonfeed it to Lace who needs silk to survive

[manic pewter]

ok after some digging, phantoms tank thing is just called "sleepers" which is used for all dead/sleeping/deactivated stuff in the game, like dead pilgrims and second sentinel and stuff

[dusky bay]

Like how hornet 1 in hollow knight has dream nail dialogue
I wonder why TC keeps putting stuff that can only be accessible if you code the item in before you can get it

[graceful grail]

TC will garenteed have a 2nd way to access needolin in future. Their planning ahead

[slow locust]

huh?

[dusky bay]

You can dream nail the first hornet in hollow knight too

[hazy meadow]

i have lore notes on the weavers, GMS, the architects, conductors, and vaultkeepers, lace and phantom. do i need to mention ANYONE ELSE

[manic pewter]

Main important files to do with them

[hazy meadow]

(context: making an analysis for my media literacy project)

[dusky bay]

And it has dialogue its not the first time they gave extra dialogue to stuff you can't even use it on at all unless you code it in

[orchid whale]

What are 2, 3 and 4?

[manic pewter]

Theyre just called "organ_sleepers" 2, 3 and 4

[dusky bay]

Is greymoor rain or falling silk and the people there catch it-

[orchid whale]

Huh?? Where are they used?

[manic pewter]

No idea, not that good at file stuff

[orchid whale]

Now I'm so confused

[manic pewter]

Like bc of the way theyre name theyre obvious to do with phantoms tank but idk beyond that

[dusky bay]

Huh
Look like the symbols in the missions where you have to get the hearts

[manic pewter]

ohhh ig theyre called Organ sleepers bc it means organ like heart not organ like piano

[dusky bay]

Second one looks like the nyleth one
And the third I think looks like hunter's march
First doesn't look like the khann one

[slow locust]

why would silk based beings have organs?

[orchid whale]

Does anyone know what these are?

[graceful grail]

Why does a flower have a heart??

[manic pewter]

They do look like silk-based beings that represent khann, nyleth and karmelita

maybe cut content?

[slow locust]

it's her pollen pouch(?)

[dusky bay]

2 are literally the black hearts from act3
The first just doesn't look like the khann one

[orchid whale]

Are these files, like, associated with the Exhaust Organ? Do we know if they're cut content or used?

[graceful grail]

It beats faint and fast

[orchid whale]

Wdym

[narrow sky]

one of them looks like phantom with coral hair lol

[manic pewter]

I cant tell, i would have to know more abt how unity files work to do that and im just not knowledgeable enough

[craggy smelt]

I guess Khann was a lady at some point
or the guard for a coral princess or something

[dusky bay]

Yk the 3 hearts you gotta get?
They have a symbol to show you where they are
The second and third look like nyelth's and karamilta's
The first doesn't look like khann's symbol
I was gonna say maybe the fight was suppose to be 4 people but I don't think so

[slow locust]

well we should NOT trust file names for lore tho

[fathom hill]

maybe khann was supposed to be a lady first

[craggy smelt]

maybe coral princess is still hidden somewhere and we can get to Coral Gorge memoryland with her

[fathom hill]

[dusky bay]

Maybe
Then they made him a man and changed the symbol
Maybe the 3 hearts which are organs are suppose to be girls at first and not big dudes

[orchid whale]

Does anyone have pictures of the 3 heart location icons on the map?

[manic pewter]

Here you go, this is the icons on the map

[orchid whale]

I see

[dusky bay]

Huh only neyleth then

[slow locust]

khann kinda looks like a pharlid

[pure belfry]

what is the Cheerio's Bee's place in Silksong's lore? 🤔

[orchid whale]

So...
Could these be some sort of cut content related to the 3 hearts then? Maybe...?
Hm

I really wanna know if these are used now

[slow locust]

they kinda look half eaten

[manic pewter]

Yeah maybe there used to be lore abt gms trying to get the 3 hearts by making artificial silk beings of the three

[fathom hill]

They do kind of look like phantom though

[orchid whale]

Do these have file names?

[dusky bay]

Wait yea the third one kinda looks like karamilta
But anyways they mightve been the original 3 fights for the heart

[fathom hill]

Maybe the three hearts were of three princesses first

Which could have tied with Hornet too

[dusky bay]

Also where the heck did you guys find these 3

[fathom hill]

But maybe they changed it cuz they didn't found the concept as interesting

Or they needed more different and distinct designs

[manic pewter]

Just "Organ_sleepers_0002_1.png"

[orchid whale]

Charlie just posted them, presumably from digging around sprites of the Exhaust Organ? I think?

[manic pewter]

Yeah i was just looking for more stuff to do with the needolin bit with lace and phantom and found them

[fathom hill]

Oh interesting

[orchid whale]

Bringing this point back up too

[manic pewter]

These are all the files with "sleeper" in their name

[fathom hill]

Maybe more failed children ?

Could be

[manic pewter]

Yes we have noticed that since the update, after you beat clover dancers, theres some greenery around where they are lying

[orchid whale]

That's so ominous wtf

Okay so they're associated with the Organ then. Either people haven't found this in-game or it might be cut content related to something maybe involving the 3 hearts?

I wanna look around in-game now

[manic pewter]

i have to write 1000 words in the next 3 hours but i want to do this instead lol

[sullen cave]

Does Hornet lowkey adopt Lace at the end of SotV, or is that just me?

Yeah. Lace herself had no beef with Hornet, just didn't want GMS to have her. And Hornet had no beef with Lace, she just wanted GMS to wuit her BS.

Not Lace's fault the easiest way to do that was to just kill the Silk spinner

[timber pond]

man i feel like The server is like Hallownest and they Built it atop The Ancient Civilization.💀

#hk-lore message:joy:

[proper ruin]

this game is annoying yet amazing

[orchid whale]

Yeah I've looked around the Exhaust Organ, even hit every wall. Those 3 don't seem to be anywhere?

So my assumption is it's some insane cut content

[slow locust]

what are you looking for

[timber pond]

The Sleepers

Probably cut

[slow locust]

which sleepers

[orchid whale]

Charlie found these 3 images in the files, named in association with Phantom's test tube thing, all of which are internally referred to as sleepers.
Soul then pointed out that some of them kinda resemble the heart icons on the map? Looking at it, that might only be for Nyleth and it's not 1-1. (Though the left one does look like coral.)
Anyways, I don't know if these appear anywhere in-game, so it might be cut content

[zinc pivot]

Maybe its like this
Silk tried to create new daughters the same way she made weavers, but none of them satisfied her
They were left to rot and their spirits became the wraiths

[slow locust]

cut content isn't lore at all tbh

[zealous heath]

Chat, how are called the things you collect and sell to the dude in bellhart?

[slow locust]

being honest if it were important we probably weren't talking about this in the first place

[slow locust]

which dude?

[zealous heath]

I'm missing one and I can't look it up on Google because I can't find an answer with the name in Spanish

[prime summit]

gms vs radiance chat

[orchid whale]

I mean, it can be related to lore or have lore implications.

[zinc pivot]

There are choir commandment, bone scroll, rune harp and a single arcane egg

[orchid whale]

Also, some edits if anyone wants to see these more clearly

[zinc pivot]

Are you missing a black circular egg?

[drifting wedge]

Radiance definitely

[zealous heath]

Those, I'm missing the third one of the list or something like that

[slow locust]

look dms

[stone herald]

Radiance wins any day of the week

[dusky bay]

Has anyone tried to like take the hearts to the organs or something?
Or is it just cut

[orchid whale]

That's an interesting question

[zinc pivot]

Did you revisit the high hall guy with the melody? In act 3

[zealous heath]

This seems like an early idea of the hearth owners tbh

[orchid whale]

I don't think we know definitively if this is cut content, I'd love to know if this is associated with some insane secret nobody's found

[orchid whale]

It could be!
But why in the Exhaust Organ?

[dusky bay]

Or whatever that place is called

[pine garden]

so in hindsight was she going to cause a second infection in Hallownest if PK didn't banish her? Our goated king could do no wrong fr fr

[dusky bay]

Like maybe if you take it to thr organ tube or smth in there idk

[pine garden]

completely forgot about her existence until I saw this meme

[zinc pivot]

Funny how a certain aubergine parmesan told us this was a retcon

[orchid whale]

It's as good a theory as any. I'll check next time I get that far in at least, if nobody else does

[pine garden]

this is a retcon now?

[zealous heath]

If the original idea was that hornet was going to use the hearts of different silk entities it could make sense that they were associated not with THE exhaust organ but a similar location

Like another place where these silk daughter were locked/assigned as punishment

[zinc pivot]

There was nothing that pointed to it
Said person however believed that the lack of negative effects of lifeblood in HK means the infectious part was a retcon

[pine garden]

oh lmao

[dusky bay]

Like even if you did work it's either lore for maybe how stuff went back then or actually a bossfight that gives nothing
Since there is no more rewards to get when you 100%
So it's probably lore or just outright cut

[pine garden]

still really funny that Joni in hindsight is now not this innocent christ-like figure she was kinda portrayed as in HK

[stone herald]

Joni really was a heretic

[pine garden]

fr fr goated PK for smacking her down

[zealous heath]

Joni was basically a brooding mawlek

[zinc pivot]

Why was the brooding mawlek brooding?

[silent quiver]

Because otherwise it would just be called mawlek

They were lonely, actually

[manic pewter]

i always understood the brooding bit of that being like "looking after a brood" as in like its a parent

[silent quiver]

Well it does suffer from its loneliness

"Lonely god of the nest"

[zealous heath]

I don't think the presence of the hearth bosses caused their environment to spread tho

[orchid whale]

This is a sick theory ngl

[zealous heath]

Outside of Nyleth, which wasn't passively expanding or at least it didn't seem like it since the citadel considered her somewhat of an ally

[orchid whale]

I like the suggestion that these past rulers all had influence on the environment.
It makes sense too. We know that's how Nyleth works. Khann DOES control coral.
And the prince corpses sprout Verdania fauna.

Also oh yeah that's a great point

[zealous heath]

But that's talking about her song preventing or delaying the silk curse, not like literally maintaining the ecosystem

[orchid whale]

Gilly is investigating the fauna of Far Fields

And the secret they hold

"This giant, old ant... Her death seems recent, but her presence here...
Was it her? Could it be? The strength that sustained these caves? If so, what will happen now?
Hornet: They will wither and fade..."

This also explains why Verdania and Coral Gorge died out despite not having any presence of the Citadel. Their rulers were gone

[zealous heath]

But this isn't basically putting them at the strength of a higher being like Unn? Idk it seems too crazy for me

[orchid whale]

^

We know this already applies to Nyleth, and Gilly's dialogue spells it out very clearly

[zealous heath]

^

I'm not saying that they're not powerful beings but their presence affecting the environment is something too crazy for me, it is something that we have only seen from higher beings

[raven galleon]

But that's the point. They were other higher beings in Pharloom. You collect their hearts for that power

[raven galleon]

Like I said, they are higher beings

[zealous heath]

"Pale beast... bringing ruin... we had sensed it... you writing harsh our final fate...
If power... you come seeking... mine is faded.... mortal... time taken..."

Isn't this implying she's a mortal being?

Or I'm not understanding the "mortal" part properly?

[quartz salmon]

no shes mortal

all 4 heart bearers are very powerful mortals

way way past their prime

[zealous heath]

Can higher beings be considered mortals? 🤔

[raven galleon]

CM : We could do it. The spell can be cast, with enough power, enormous power, equal maybe to that monarch...
Hornet: I cannot grant you mine, if it even were enough. My strength is still needed to face her below. Where else do you propose we seek a source?
CM : From Pharloom! Ho ho ho! Remember, ours is a kingdom of wishes granted.
BH : Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
BH : Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength.

[zealous heath]

This doesn't confirm they're higher beings tho

Just that's were here before gms and that they were powerful

[orchid whale]

Idk if this is relevant, but the Snail Shaman mention that somehow, the decline of Verdania was a necessary part of "keeping the pale monarch caged."

[raven galleon]

This power of monarchs is something that hornet has as well and she is half higher being

[orchid whale]

The terminology really doesn't matter

"Higher being" is vague

[zealous heath]

No no, what hornet is saying is that Verdania was lost to the citadel, since the citadel was part of what maintained gms in a cage

[orchid whale]

Fair interpretation

[dusky bay]

Bec his lover's soul was placed into the cogwork dancers

Which lead to him being lonely and probably his country to die
But I don't understand why was he imprisoned

[zealous heath]

Not a bug tho, Nyleth obviously affected her surroundings but I don't think Karmelita and the Green Prince did it

Crust King did it but it was because he was conquering places not because he "passively" expanded his territory

[zealous heath]

Also he was imprisoned in sinner's road

[raven galleon]

Higher beings are definitely by being able to naturally focus souls and being able to shape the environment and life around them. The monarchs literally do the latter and the first is implied (how would the bugs under those monarchs get sentience otherwise?)

[dusky bay]

Yea
When was he a sinner
Did he like try to break the cogwork dancers?
He did say his wish was his partner's soul to be free

[raven galleon]

He wanted to remain imprisoned

[zealous heath]

Yeah but he didn't say he imprisoned himself

[dusky bay]

He mightve tried to break the cogwork dancers

[zealous heath]

That definition would make the Hallownest mushroom a higher being tho

[raven galleon]

Gilly literally said so. We see how the return of both the Princes effects Verbania even when dead

[zealous heath]

And we don't know that the heart bosses have their people sentient

[raven galleon]

Well, why not? It does seem to be in confidence with the Pale King in some way

[dusky bay]

Still no reason to say why he was imprisoned
Did he do reverse prison escape-

[zealous heath]

I was referring to this message

[raven galleon]

But in some way they became sentient

[zealous heath]

For me they're definitely not higher beings or the creators of their people, they were insanely powerful mortals tho

[raven galleon]

Well it was long dead. The Pale King technically doesn't appear either because he's dead

It only appears it's empty throne

[zealous heath]

random question, the body that the green prince has in his arms is literally his liver or is one of the cogwork dancers?

[raven galleon]

Well technically we don't know

[zealous heath]

It's super interesting that the three skarr we see that aren't haunted are the mottled ones

[dusky bay]

Cogwork dancer

In the battle the second one will only lose its limbs
And if you go back to citadel you will see him holding it saying you already achieved his wish before he even asked

[zealous heath]

My interpretation of all the things with karmelita was that her song was stopping or delaying the haunting, being this what keeps the skarr acting like usual (hunting, scouting, etc.) even when the haunting was on them

So when Karmelita dies, the skarr fully succumb to the haunting and eventually wither and die

[dusky bay]

Also the journal says that it has a soul

[zealous heath]

That's what I thought I just wanted to be sure

So Verdania getting alive again can just be the soul inside the cogwork dancer giving life to the earth

[dusky bay]

Rip
I still feel bad when you play the needolin karamlita sings with a dead voice

[dusky bay]

Also in patch 2 I think if you beat the clover dancers some green shows around them
So there is a chance verdania regrows

[zealous heath]

I need more Skarr lore, they're awesome
Skarr dlc where we learn that Gurr is alive and we can enter the arena for a coliseum-like challenge

[dusky bay]

Maybe needolin the guy you buy the mask from to enter his dreams
There are many npcs that might have a memory like the third pintress and shakra's master

[zealous heath]

I'm still wonder if Gurr body is carried by the ants because if it's not then he's 100% alive because his corpse isn't in the arena anymore

[dusky bay]

Gurr?

[zealous heath]

The mottled Skarr boss

The outcast

[dusky bay]

The guy who wanted a pale being as a trophy?

[orchid whale]

I really hope they're expanded on. Early in development it looked like they had some sort of bone society, but all we see in the final game is just fields and stuff.

[dusky bay]

Gurr is like what if collector was cool

[dusky bay]

They have MILLIONS of possibilities
More memories and more bosses

Can't wait for 112%

[orchid whale]

Also, what makes Gurr an outcast?

[dusky bay]

He literally has an ant hanged on his trophy room

[orchid whale]

Oh yeah, I suppose that'd do it

[zealous heath]

Yeah, I was in his arena again (by accident) and the body wasn't there

[dusky bay]

The ants either took him since ants always take dead bodies
Or he isn't dead

Like craw father maybe the birds took his body or he is alive

[zealous heath]

They're the coolest enemy by a long shot (at least for me) and I just feel like we need 1 or 2 more skarr bosses and lore, they lack lore even with Karmelita as one of the important bosses of the story

[dusky bay]

Also why does sister splinters grow a sprout after dying

[zealous heath]

That's what I'm saying, maybe if you hang in there long enough you can see the ants moving his body? If not then he's 100% alive because making him dissapear like that is weird, none other boss does that

[dusky bay]

True
Like why the fuck in hunter's march from all enemies we get beastfly and not an ant related boss
Like karamilta is fucking cool and gurr uses traps against you
The first time you fight him you are literally caught in a trap

[dusky bay]

Craw father

[zealous heath]

Gurr is 10/10 vibes, 4/10 gameplay/difficulty

Which hurts my soul

[dusky bay]

I deleted him with witch
Just tatical nuke baby
Tatical nuke

[zealous heath]

I didn't delete him because I was so excited of seeing another skarr boss that I just dodge until he killed me like 3 times

[dusky bay]

His gimmick is he closes on you then dashes

[zealous heath]

And then witch crest nuke

[dusky bay]

All we can do now is wait for ss dlcs which hopefully might be next year

Plus they will be fre so nothing to lose >:]

[zealous heath]

It seems crazy to me that we have more coral lore than skarr lore, when the skarrs are still here 😭

[dusky bay]

I love how silksong gives triple A games the middle finger 😭

[dusky bay]

Karmalita is the only summoning boss I don't have a problem with

[zealous heath]

I wonder if the three mottled skarrs are related 🤔
They do seem to be of different ages

[dusky bay]

2 are friends and the third for some reason wants you as a trophy

[zealous heath]

Gurr is the father, Mottled Skarr is oldest son and mottled scout is younger son

Idc what anybody thinks, is canon now

[dusky bay]

Lol 😭

Also I love how in act 3 the crows dye themselves black to blend in and give THE TWO SPECIFIC BIRDS POGO IMMUNE

[zealous heath]

Don't judge me, I'm just coping because my favorite faction has like 3 lines of lore

[zealous heath]

They went full emo revenge

Which is interesting, that would imply they're conscious and not affected by the haunting right?

[dusky bay]

Craw father looks like a evil villain then just becomes fat

[dusky bay]

That's probably right
But they can get infected with the black ones
Also craw father might be still alive

[zealous heath]

I think the haunting is just too recent, that's why we see so many people free of that, I wonder if the earlier days of Radiance infection were like that

[dusky bay]

Radiance only infected hollownest

Also is it weird how the bad ending in the two games are the same?
You take the place of the "final" boss

Hornet becomes too greedy while the knight uh

[zealous heath]

I know, I'm just wondering if in the early days it was like in Pharloom and there were a lot of people still conscious or if it was like... All at once

[dusky bay]

What happens to the knight actually
He absorbed the infection?

[zealous heath]

Yeah, but he would eventually leak like THK

[dusky bay]

You can see some pilgrims conscious but immediately get turned by the silk in mosslands so probably yea

[cobalt coyote]

Sealed it in himself

[zealous heath]

A pure vessel doesn't exist and the game has some moments where it clearly shows you that the little Ghost has feelings (and silksong act 3 ending confirms it)

[hidden crater]

I just wanted to get fractured mask only to find mottled skarrs ass like this

[cobalt coyote]

Got bad wifi so messages might appear out of nowhere

[dusky bay]

Daughter of the void

[zealous heath]

I felt so bad for him!! He was so chill 😭

[hidden crater]

Him and lumble dying was so sad

[zealous heath]

Like, you can sit with Quirrel in his last moment of reflection
You can meditate with Mato
He does things that serve no purpose for his mission

[dusky bay]

Pure vessel and pale king have the sadest story ever...
Btw I love how in hk there was suppose to be a boss that protects the pale girl thing but is dead beside it
But in ss seth is there and protects nyleth

Even tho nyleth is dead-

[zealous heath]

Is the reverse of the HK situation and still hits like a truck if you think about it

[dusky bay]

The only thing that kinda pisses me off is the situation is the same
There is an infection but it's weak
Then around the end the infection grows and becomes stronger
Then you defeat the source which saves everyone

The difference between the dreamers and memories
Dreamers just stand there
While memories are actual bosses you need to beat

[zealous heath]

I mean, yes but actually no

Because in silksong what makes the infection "stronger" is the void, the thing you tried to use to prevent it

It is as if THK actually made the infection worse at the moment he tried to seal it

Basically Hornet in silksong was being The Hollow knight, not the ghost
Which is interesting because we can see Pharloom actually alive

[dusky bay]

He stabbed himself smh...

[zealous heath]

Or at least alive enough, there's hope

[dusky bay]

Also I wonder around gms was pharloom ok? Since herald doesn't come till you send her to the void

[zealous heath]

In HK there wasn't really hope, Hallownest is dead already, technically speaking defeating radiance didn't accomplish anything, it just ended the story of the vessels

[dusky bay]

But even at the start you see orange particles when you hit something
Also why does hk get to have a moment of silence everytime you get him but hornet just all on chaos

[zealous heath]

When we arrive at Hallownest the place is already dead and infected, it just gets worse when we are around

[dusky bay]

If you overdose with plasimum eva actually blocks you to get nearer to her

That's very interesting

[dense aspen]

The knight appeard

Hype shit

[dusky bay]

Fr

[zealous heath]

Lifeblood is just another infection

I want to see the higher being that did that

HK3 Lifeblood would be an awesome premise tbh

[dusky bay]

Yea but tbh I never expected eva would block you to get near her
I thought it was only being cursed but yea
...what if we get a lifeblood dlc with a new ending to killing gms while being overdosed

[dense aspen]

Same exact aura as meeting joshua graham

[stray rock]

a lifeblood dlc wud be sick but icl there is better options unless its a whole area

[zealous heath]

I can see a lifeblood dlc but I would prefer if they used that in a new HK game

My hope for HK3 is lifeblood as the main enemy and a brand new character as the protagonist

[dense aspen]

Ne too

[stray rock]

zoteboat

[dense aspen]

I don't wanna play as stupid bitch lace

[zealous heath]

Skarr and Coral dlc > all

[stray rock]

i do

[dusky bay]

Tbh life blood was so little in silksong Just
Random guy testing
His worker is surrounded
Then in act 3
Guy is infected
His worker is a walking lifeblood bottle

[zealous heath]

Tf you mean? Lace is awesome

[stray rock]

coral dlc plsss

khann in his prime

[dusky bay]

YEA I NEED BEAUTIFUL SCENERY

[zealous heath]

It wasn't little, you can see how they planted lifeblood and unleashed an full on infection like it was radiance coursing using a blue dress

[dusky bay]

And steel assasins

[stray rock]

maybe instead of the final crust king its the era of the strongest

[zealous heath]

Steel assassins is 100% an upcoming dlc

[stray rock]

i think so

[zealous heath]

I really really want at least one new crest

[dusky bay]

I swear if it's steel soul only I am doomed
But if it's like
You need to do zi's mission first I wouldn't mind

[stray rock]

i think since we alr got a blessing it might not be

[zealous heath]

And I would cope until the last dlc for an act4 where we restore Pharloom and fight memories bosses

[stray rock]

strongest crust king?

[dusky bay]

New crest makes all damage deal 1 mask
And the ability gives you immunity for 5 seconds and you heal the amount of times you didn't get hit in
So it can work as a shield and heal :3

[stray rock]

i think if an act 4 gets added bilewater restoration is necescary

[dusky bay]

Steel crest

[zealous heath]

Yes, entering from the edge watcher memories
Actually fighting Green Prince boyfriend
A new Skarr boss that fights with us to protect Karmelita...

[stray rock]

karmelita is canonically stupidly strong though right

[dense aspen]

That wasn't in the game

[stray rock]

she didnt fall to grandmother silk completly right?

[dense aspen]

Cut content it seems

[zealous heath]

And we still fought her soldiers before her

[dusky bay]

The trailer that was years ago

[timber pond]

Bile water Restoration ,Coral restoration, Verdania archelogical effort , and uh The lifeblood extermination program😂

[stray rock]

true maybe her husband is a little ant king lmao

[zealous heath]

So imagine fighting her strongest soldier in a 1v1

[dense aspen]

Cut content

[stray rock]

ong cuz the clover regrowing

[dense aspen]

Anyways why was rhe knight just chilling in the void why didn't he like kill gms

[stray rock]

and lifeblood area lowkey sucks lol

[zealous heath]

I know people want free dlc

[stray rock]

the aesthetic is good tho

[hollow talon]

does anyone know why Weavers turned their back against GMS ?

[zealous heath]

But I would genuely pay for an act 4 dlc

[stray rock]

cuz they realised they were made and werent pure and their own race

[dense aspen]

Idk maybe the fact she has a kingdom like a orwellian nightmare on steroids?

[timber pond]

bro is chillin. Lord of shades seems neutral? or like mebye he didnt see her as something to be "corrected"

[zealous heath]

Maybe GMS didn't want them to have kids?

[zealous heath]

The void is neutral

It became crazy in act3 because GMS was altering it

[stray rock]

its just that the weavers figured out that they were just ctarnids or whatever

[dense aspen]

Yeash

Why didn't he kill her then

[craggy smelt]

Void was gonna kill her eventually, why bother

[zealous heath]

Because the void is neutral

[craggy smelt]

neutral-awesome

[stray rock]

void doesnt rlly take sides tbf

[hollow talon]

that's 2 different answers here, but I guess they didn't want to leave under the terror of their own creator and looked for freedom ?
is that why the first sinner was imprisonned ? because they wanted to escape this probably nightmare/servitude life GMS have gaved them ?

[dense aspen]

This is less taking sides and more shooting a robber breaking in your house

[zealous heath]

The knight only intervened when her sister was in trouble because even if he's in the void he has a will

[zealous heath]

She was imprisoned for apostasy so... Yeah, they just didn't want to worship her

[timber pond]

She was practicaly Kidnaped and shoved into said "house" 😂

[stray rock]

the shamans kidnapped her

[dense aspen]

Fair enough

[stray rock]

didnt sinner also use silk in a way that wasnt appreciated

[hollow talon]

so GMS is as mad as Radiance when their people turned their back against them

[zealous heath]

The void consumes but is inherently neutral, they were just like: ok I guess this is dinner
And GMS was resisting so the void expanded via their silk and started eating/controlling things already infected with silk

[zealous heath]

I don't remember that but idk is 5am and I haven't slept lol

[timber pond]

Well, We dont actually know what "little ghost" who is now "Lord of Shades" thinks

cause they have a will

and opinions about hornet at least

[zealous heath]

He at least cares about Hornet

[timber pond]

Mabye dude was just bewildered idk man

Imagine a giant ball appearing at the other end of the world

[stray rock]

maybe he can recognize the relations between the pale king and her

[timber pond]

"wait what the fuck, WHATS GOING ON IM SCARED"

[zealous heath]

I mean, if we assume that the deepest conversation is canon then he knows she is his sister

[dense aspen]

Ok this is the best explanation I've heard so far

[dense aspen]

Why wouldn't he

[zealous heath]

Also DNM best ending and canon ending because they bond even more and she helps us get to radiance which is awesome

[stray rock]

because he doesnt feel its just a weird argument but idk

[hidden crater]

The voids feasting, it ate 2 gods for dinner and an entire kingdom

[zealous heath]

An entire kingdom IF EtV ending is Canon (isn't)

[dense aspen]

If the void consumes all why did the void stop hornet from getting eaten

[dense aspen]

It is

[craggy smelt]

I can see TK not really caring if some fool messes with the Void - they can reap what they sow
only when GMS is dead and the Everbloom fades and all the disruptions stop, then TK realizes Hornet's in there and steps in

[hidden crater]

Weavers arent tasty

[zealous heath]

It wasn't the void it was the little Ghost/knight/whatever you want to call the protagonist of the first game

[timber pond]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E-gNV2JgMao?feature=share This But GMS

[stray rock]

i would spit out a bunch of silk to

[dense aspen]

Isint he like the shade lord now aka all the fucking void

[zealous heath]

He still has a will

He unified the void or at least part of it and it follows his will when he commands it

I think that's the easiest way to explain it

[craggy smelt]

hallownest void vs pharloom void

[hidden crater]

The moment the void gets a taste of royal waterways its gonna spit it out

[hidden crater]

Nuclear bomb vs slightly better Nuclear bomb

[dense aspen]

Is the void fossil fules

[timber pond]

void is oil

[craggy smelt]

its why PK made his kingdom there
"I'll be rich~!"

[hidden crater]

Infinite money glitch

[timber pond]

Im going to cover my Babies in Wealth

[hidden crater]

Born of God and Wealth

[craggy smelt]

he was going to smother Radiance like one of those seagulls that gets all fucked up during an oil spill

[dense aspen]

Hey wait a minute

Wheres thk in all this shit

[craggy smelt]

alive back in Hallownest

[zealous heath]

Depending on what ending you think is canon he's either dead or we don't know

[dense aspen]

What the fuck is thk is doing

[zealous heath]

DNM ending > EtV

[craggy smelt]

wondering what the fuck happened to Hornet

[dense aspen]

Is he bullying children while he's at it

[normal yew]

Working on dlc

[craggy smelt]

why would they
THK is a gentle giant

[timber pond]

Kidnaped BY Steel City

[zealous heath]

I genuinely think everyone who thinks EtV ending is Canon are just coping about getting THK as protagonist of a game or as a dlc boss

[timber pond]

hes rad

[dense aspen]

Thk next protag and we gwt to have giant fights like in mecha s

[hidden crater]

Chilling in the black egg temple

[zealous heath]

He's dead

[dense aspen]

Smoking a cigarette

[timber pond]

also like ive been coping for 9 years at this point

ever since this discord began

[craggy smelt]

I don't really want them as a protag, but I do think ETV is canon, because it's the most insane possible ending it could be

[timber pond]

Im not even joking look at my message history

[zealous heath]

THK being alive would make all his journey as a character pointless and boring imo

[hollow talon]

does the Pharloom curse which forcefully turn pilgrims mad is from before or after the Weavers turn their back against GMS. I ask because GMS can be read as a completely different character :

• first, the curse if from before the Weavers "treason" : Weavers may have witness the curse themselves, saw how horrible it was and decided to confront their creator, some were imprisonned, some fled, some even were walled up. In this scenario, GMS can be seen as an overcontrolling god, who only wants people to worship her
• second the curse is from after the Weaver's "treason" : some Weavers wanted more freedom that GMS gaved them. She then got mad and started to "curse" the kingdom by spreading Silk. This could be a way to "capture" escaping Weavers. In this scenario, GMS is also an overcontrolling god, but it adds more layers, since the curse we see in the game can be some sort of sorrow, due to Weavers leaving her side, and her being saddened

those theories are definity full of plotholes, but I would like to know what you think about it

[hidden crater]

1 cigarette prob gonna knock him out after all hes been through

[zealous heath]

BUT

[stuck berry]

why?

there's potential for them to be redeemed

[zealous heath]

Hornet memorie THK as a boss? Where we see him before he got into the black egg? 11/10

[timber pond]

It would make for a rad ass premise of "What do i do now that im still here and i have no purpose" tpye story

About moving on like

[stuck berry]

you spent all your life training to do something and you fuck it up miserably then your siblings give you another chance at life

[timber pond]

Kinda like how Seth did in this game

[zealous heath]

He got "redeemed" he literally help us kill radiance 😭

[craggy smelt]

Steel Clan kidnaps them, gives them a new steel arm
true final boss of Silksong DLC - Steel Knight

[stuck berry]

what was i made for after my purpose was done, by someone else no less

[stuck berry]

no no i like this a lot actually

[zealous heath]

THK stabbed himself to help us, he fights against the infection and then in DNM he literally helps us kill Radiance

[timber pond]

I can hear the Metal gear music in my head

[zealous heath]

He already redeemed himself and it just deserves to rest in peace, the fight is over

[timber pond]

We THRIVE for THK Tragedy redemption Arc >:)

[zealous heath]

"redeemed" is a weird word tho, he did nothing wrong

[radiant smelt]

battle against a masked vessel

[zealous heath]

PK plan was stupid and it was all his fault

[timber pond]

World does terrible things to Heros and pepole who did nothing wrong

[stuck berry]

need thk to go to a soft lush meadow and relax for a while free from the burden of containing a goddess

[timber pond]

thats what makes it good

[hidden crater]

THK gets his arm back

[elder epoch]

So does the knight being alive mean that the only Canon ending is the radiance one?

[stuck berry]

therein lies the tragedy he failed because of feelings he had in choice in having

[craggy smelt]

all vessels are masked

[stuck berry]

and the godhome ending

[elder epoch]

Which one

[zealous heath]

Dream no more or embrace the void

[elder epoch]

Oh right

Forgot

[stuck berry]

the one where they are Not absorbed into a flower

[elder epoch]

Cause he has shade lord

[radiant smelt]

maskless vessel fight like how widow got her mask removed. nevermind thats just a shade

[zealous heath]

One is a better answer narratively (DNM), the other gives you hope about seeing THK again (EtV) choose your poison

[stuck berry]

dnm but i do want to see thk again

[zealous heath]

Infinite coping vs the realization of what it was lost forever

[stuck berry]

yeah godhome sucks narratively on account of thk being a nonfactor

[elder epoch]

Wait because of the knight flashing the shade lord, does that not mean the only Canon ending is embrace the void?

[stuck berry]

no

[zealous heath]

And hornet being on the the black egg entrance like: woah wth happened

[stuck berry]

if the knight was consistently the shade lord that would be the case

[elder epoch]

Ah

[stuck berry]

but we don't know what the knight was up to in the abyss all this time

[craggy smelt]

its amibiguous, since you see both siblings and the shade lord - they can't both be there

[zealous heath]

He's always the shade lord (you can dream nail the void guy with the vase with infinite void goop and he says so)

[dense aspen]

You guys think there are murderous rat men in the hk world that smoke magic crack rocks

[stuck berry]

yeah two major players in the narrative are made basically pointless

[radiant smelt]

having an extended family reunion

[zealous heath]

The factor that "divides" the opinion isn't the shade lord appearing, is THK not appearing

[stuck berry]

when I'm in an ambiguous lore competition and my opponent is a metroidvania dev

[zealous heath]

But I still say that THK was only big void guy in the dream realm and we actually see him smol in EtV so he can just be smol in the Silksong ending

[hidden crater]

This is real btw

[radiant smelt]

AWW

[fathom pollen]

Hk lore is so much better than ss lore

[radiant smelt]

the knight is not that fucking small is it

[zealous heath]

Not really

[craggy smelt]

ETV does make a weird kind of sense though - if you pay attention to what the Godseekers are doing, you realize what the end goal is
they're going to attune to the Radiance and bring her to Godhome
TK can accomplish their goal without fighting their sibling or chasing after Dreamers, they just need to stick with Godhome

[radiant smelt]

its been forever since i played hk

[dense aspen]

I geniuenly wish I play as thk in the next game so I can act like a mech

[stuck berry]

just a bit taller

[dense aspen]

Yeah what the fuck they shrunk my mans

[zealous heath]

But again, it takes two major players and make them useless which is weird considering one of those major players is the protagonist of the sequel

It's really boring narratively speaking

[stuck berry]

guy whose only ending in hollow knight was godhome

[radiant smelt]

itd be so funny if the character the game was named after literally did nothing

[stuck berry]

yeah it sucks

[timber pond]

I would agree If Nosk Hornet didnt Exist. Which implies that Little Ghost cares about Hornet regardless Of the events.

[zealous heath]

Yeah etv believers are coping

[zealous heath]

And still she does nothing in the end, she has no agency or role outside of saving you that one time

[stuck berry]

you can't do pantheons without both hornet encounters so by that point tk does know her

[timber pond]

That Dosent matter for the Knight Caring about her.

[dense aspen]

Mr mushroom canr keep getting away with this

He just can't keep getting away with this

[stuck berry]

and keep in mind nosk only takes from memories not from specifically loved ones even if the bugs saw that

[zealous heath]

And again, imagine getting a THK boss fight when we fight the memory Hornet has of him before he entered the black egg

DNM can still have some THK cope

[radiant smelt]

actually yea hornet prolly wouldve known thk during her time with white lady huh

[zealous heath]

A vespa boss fight would be sick too ..

[timber pond]

THe wording on the Nosk entry sort of Implies that it takes the form of loved ones tbh

[zealous heath]

She wouldn't know a lot tbf, she was too little and THK didn't bond with her, you know, all that plan of the perfect vessel and shit

[stuck berry]

this is your half brother we're having him contain a god everything will work out

[hidden crater]

Insane timeline pull

[dense aspen]

This is innacurate due to the fact that lace went insane from void and need to be executed by firing squad after the events of silksong

[zealous heath]

But Hornet having a distant memory of this immaculate warrior that was going to sacrifice itself would be peak as the premise to a boss fight

[radiant smelt]

i mean. is that not just pure vessel

[stuck berry]

purer vessel

[zealous heath]

Yes but it would be the idea Hornet had of who the pure vessel was

[radiant smelt]

pure vessel the vessel vs pure vessel the idea

[stuck berry]

i think it'd be cool to have one recurring boss fight from the previous game and i think it'd be cooler if it was one of the must interesting ones both from lore and from difficulty

hornet's fat hitbox would not survive floor spikes

[dense aspen]

Knight fight where you can't win

[radiant smelt]

honestly yea i would love an even harder pv fight in silksong if anything

[zealous heath]

I think it would be fun having hornet explore her memories to get a new crest and you could fight some of her memories like Vespa or Pure Vessel

[dense aspen]

I would hate that shit

[stuck berry]

no you would like it

you hate pure vessel because it's preceeded by 10 mid ass fights

[zealous heath]

Bee crest where you just fucking die to Radiance infection 🔥🔥🔥

[radiant smelt]

pvs my fav fight in hk and itd be fun fighting it with hornets moveset

[stuck berry]

and because you have to grind it in hall of gods to even get the chance again

[dense aspen]

No ibwoudl hate it because it's a lazy rehash of a fight

Like lost lace
Lost lace is so fucking mid

[stuck berry]

not really

[zealous heath]

I wish Broken Vessel was a Silksong fight

[radiant smelt]

lost lace is awesome actually and my favourite sk fight

[zealous heath]

He's so peak, imagine if he was as difficult as SS bosses

[dense aspen]

She is not awsome

She is mid as hell

I dont think I seen a boss as mid as her

[radiant smelt]

they should make a voided version of it and itd be called lost kin or something

[zealous heath]

— the guy who died 20 times to the boys and says that her moveset is bullshit

[dense aspen]

That exists

[dense aspen]

Trust me pal her moves etc ain't bullshit

It's actually not bullshit enough

[radiant smelt]

lost lace has so much attack variety compared to every other boss in the game

[dense aspen]

I wish she was harder

[radiant smelt]

i agree actually

i spent 2 hours on her fight and i dont think that was enough

[nocturne thistle]

trobbio's race travelled or smth

[dense aspen]

Yeah and I think she was also anti climatic

[radiant smelt]

i think she fits narratively

[zealous heath]

I think she's a better boss than Radiance

[radiant smelt]

its a really cool inversion from the first game - instead you fight a higher being first, and then a vessel overtaken by a higher being later

[dense aspen]

She's not

Raidence is way better

[radiant smelt]

the radiance fight is also goated

[dense aspen]

Honestly fair
But she's still anti climatic

[radiant smelt]

the one thing i wish is that she looked a bit more different than just. lace being covered in black paint

[lapis geode]

Do you know she at least hold up while being drown in void?
Well, Radiance is getting split open by HK and whipped HARD but GMS still hold.

[zealous heath]

I did 108% of HK before I started silksong (didn't do
112% because Silksong was already out) and yeah, lost lace is a better fight

[timber pond]

Silksong Is litteraly inverted Hollow Knight so i expected it. Hollow kingt first screen you go right, silksong you go left

[nocturne thistle]

like mother like daughter
edit: i thought u were talking about GMS and lace

[zealous heath]

This is actually a good critique

[tribal cargo]

quick question...after the hollow knight ascended to true shade --> he killed god bug thingy --> combine with the void ??

[zealous heath]

Basically

[dense aspen]

She's not and I will die on this hill

[lapis geode]

To be honest, I didn't understand the catch of "saving Lace" since
even though we met and understand her point, it needs to be cooked longer to make
it more interesting.

[dense aspen]

Also this

[lapis geode]

It's just feels, too sudden?

[dense aspen]

I agree

Lace needed to be cooked longer or killed off

[tribal cargo]

radiance is more "grand"/cool
lost lace is definitely more satisfying to beat

[lapis geode]

I mean take a look on Radiance.
That moth is being foreshadowed since LONG.
The statue is not her only hint, she basically a constant looming threat that gnaw on Hallownest.

[dense aspen]

No I felt nothing when I beat ll

Raidence is more satsfying

[zealous heath]

2 boss fights, 4 encounters and you don't think it was enough? 😭
It's literally more than we had for THK and Radiance

Also her story is deeply twined with GMS so the "they had more lore" argument isn't even valid

[tribal cargo]

welll thats to each their own i guess

[stuck berry]

the void strings were messing up the world because of gms's obssession with keeping her alive and saving her was the most practical way to stop the void

[radiant smelt]

lost lace highlights hornets strengths at duel-type fights

[lapis geode]

It still feel too sudden.
Radiance influence is not starts when you approach the dreamer.

[stuck berry]

does anyone think gms would've died on her own and the void would've slinked back by itself if hornet hadn't saved her

[tribal cargo]

also "big boss" tend to be too easy for hornet due to her WIDE variety of tools/crest/skill

duel type fight is 100% fitting for a final boss

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid-snake-big-boss-gif-12248663

[dense aspen]

big boss?

[zealous heath]

Also you can't talk about Lace without talking about the Weavers descendants, the inability or complications of having true children, Eva, Phantom, GMS creating her after the weavers treason....

[dense aspen]

Kept you waiting huh

[radiant smelt]

i think conceptually a big boss could be a difficult fight, its just that the ones we got fourth chorus and gilf silk are really easy. which makes sense since fourth chorus has to be easy as it serves as the glide tutorial, i hope we get to fight a way harder version in a pantheon

[tribal cargo]

boss like
4th chorus
Grand mother silk

and prolly others i forgot

basicly their size is "big" that hitting them becomes relatively easy due to hornet skill/tools

[dense aspen]

Are they the men that sold the world?

[zealous heath]

Big hitboxes are too easy for Hornet

[stuck berry]

y'all remember gms isn't that hard by design since it's supposed to leave the player wanting more and find act 3

[radiant smelt]

i guess last judge is the next biggest, that was a fun and appropiately difficult fight for its place in the game

[tribal cargo]

i dont get what u mean by this

[zealous heath]

They should had us fight gms before lost lace just because it would be funny like THK before Radiance

[stuck berry]

i was fully expecting that

narratively what they did in the final game is much better

[zealous heath]

Yeah but where's the funny "haha two bosses fuck you"that we had in HK

[stuck berry]

but would've been very cool to fight lost lace with only two phases and not 4 which leads into lost grand mother silk who is the real hard one

[radiant smelt]

it mightve been cool if gms occasionally contributed with some attacks during the second half of the fight

[stuck berry]

and weaken her silk ball protecting them all?

maybe if she vomited some silk which covered the room in an insane bullet hell

[zealous heath]

Hear me out, GMS fight and then her silk is absorbed by lost lace

[tribal cargo]

i aint gonna lie i thought its gonna be a 2 boss battle in a row

lost lace --> GSM but i guess gsm is too weak at that point lore wise

[radiant smelt]

gms doesnt even want to fight you at this point

[tribal cargo]

she just wants her child to go out of the void

she knows she is doomed

[zealous heath]

Tbh THK was really easy when I was going for Radiance this time

[timber pond]

I wonder how Lifeblood Bro creature feels about anything

[zealous heath]

Like I would kill him in less than a minute

[stuck berry]

haha yes... flourish.... grrr....

[zealous heath]

So only fighting lost lace is ok

[tribal cargo]

did u see lost sinner mod

lowkey that wouldve been fun to be an actual boss in act 3

[timber pond]

But like, would he have any reason to fight you or is he like Unn who is fat Chinesse man under Liliypad

[stuck berry]

why

you're not doing anything to slight him just defending yourself and helping the man's harmless experiments

[radiant smelt]

first sinner is close to being my favourite fight, its just that her easiness holds her down a biit

[zealous heath]

I wish the beastfly spawned mid lost lace fight

[radiant smelt]

she was really satisfying to fight though

[zealous heath]

And suddenly the floor became lava

[tribal cargo]

i dont think she was easy...

[timber pond]

I mainly just mean is there any context in witch the lifeblood creature would care to fight like at all?

[zealous heath]

Maybe like that people would stop complaining

[stuck berry]

turns out that's why gms's belly is big she was pregnant with lost beastfly

[stuck berry]

in this particular game no

[radiant smelt]

oh....

[stuck berry]

maybe if the player ever posed a serious threat to the growth of lifeblood

[tribal cargo]

id put first sinner alongside lace 2 in term of difficulty

[zealous heath]

[timber pond]

Well if lifeblood keeps spreading through pharloom ,i imagine someone will want to poke him out of existance

[tribal cargo]

hell no

[stuck berry]

karmelita is much harder than sinner

[radiant smelt]

i guess if the spread of lifeblood got out of control and hornet had to seek it out and slay it to prevent yet another apocalyptic event

who knows if that would even stop the spread though

[tribal cargo]

i ironically find carmelita easier than first sinner 🤔 i think its because of i learn how to actually PARRY and once u learn how to parry ... karmelita pretty much does nothing 🤣

[zealous heath]

Lifeblood seems to extend if it's consumed tho so.. just don't drink the blue Gatorade and you should be fine

[stuck berry]

didn't the lb just get worse because the void shit happened

[zealous heath]

HK3 vs lifeblood higher being, turst me, I'm Team Cherry's cousin

[radiant smelt]

yea the spread of lifeblood in wormways happens as soon as act 3 starts

[stuck berry]

I'm sure with that gone it'll settle down

[tribal cargo]

lifeblood infection = radiance infection ?? 👀
in terms of severity

[stuck berry]

not diminish but not spread anywhere near as frequently

[zealous heath]

No, it got worse because the two dudes planted lifeblood in the wormways shortly after you get to Pharloom

[stuck berry]

bro introduced a foreign contaminant into a regular ecosystem what did he think was gonna happen

[zealous heath]

I don't think we actually see void inside the lifeblood wormways

[stuck berry]

like talk about an invasive species good lord

[radiant smelt]

i wonder if all the constant digging the worms did helped it spread a lot

[zealous heath]

I'm 100% sure it is an injection like the Radiance one

Just look at the infected worms

[tribal cargo]

injection?? 🤔

[zealous heath]

Infection***

[tribal cargo]

ah got it

yea i thikn so... the whol environtment and ecosystem change

[radiant smelt]

huh yea they even have really similar attacks

[zealous heath]

Just look at them, lifeblood is blue Gatorade radiance infection

[tribal cargo]

do we know the higher being / gods that is the source of the plasmium?

[radiant smelt]

probably lifeblood creature

[tribal cargo]

now that i think about it in GodHome we also have plasmium 🤔

[radiant smelt]

i believe zylotls master first found the plasmium at the edge of bilewater though

[zealous heath]

Probably not, if I'm not mistaken we see something similar elsewhere but not infected

I don't remember where (its almost 6am)

[zealous heath]

Why there?

[dusky bay]

Huh hornet isn't pure

[tribal cargo]

wdym pure?

she is half spider half worm

[dusky bay]

The reason judges kill hornet is bec she killed poeple

Last judge fights hornet bec she isn't pure of heart

[tribal cargo]

what classify as "people" in this situation

[dusky bay]

That's why sherma passed through it no problem

[zealous heath]

@tribal cargo the canon ending is EtV (godhome) or DNM (True ending or Radiance ending)

[dusky bay]

Any enemy

[tribal cargo]

got itt but with the shade lord appearance i was thinking the EtV is prolly the canon one? cuz in the normal radiance ending theres no shade lord right?

[dusky bay]

Sherma didn't have to kill last judge bec she didn't even kill anyone nor do any harm so the last judge nor any of the judges harmed her

[radiant smelt]

its inferred based on what zylotol says and the lore tablet in weavenest murglin

[tribal cargo]

i thought what happened was

hornet kill judge --> sherma then passed through

[dusky bay]

There is even in the code a pacifist thing where if you don't kill any enemy the judges would let you pass by them but it's clear it was cut quickly since it doesn't work

[zealous heath]

But the siblings appear and they don't appear in EtV, also the knight is always the shade lord (dream nailing the abyss guy that has the vase while having the void heart confirm it)

[tribal cargo]

sherma was seen resting near a bench in blasted when we are about to fight the judge right?

[dusky bay]

Sherma is in the spa before you
And if you go through the otherside from phantom she still goes reaches there and in snowclave

[tribal cargo]

ohh? i didnt know that

i thought shade lord is achieved due to the knight being "attuned" inside the GodHome thus unlocking the full potential of the void

[stuck berry]

sherma's a boy

[dusky bay]

😭

[radiant smelt]

i think its notable that the knight doesnt seemingly have complete control over the void. like it has to actively intervene and slash apart the void tendrils that were about to get hornet and lace

[zealous heath]

Nope, shade lord is just a manifestation of the unified void which you achieve by having the void hearth

Still it's ambiguous on purpose but those two are the candidates for canon ending, imo DNM is 1000 times better narratively and it makes overall more sense but some people disagree and some others just cope about a game where you play as the hollow knight

[stuck berry]

prequel pure vessel game 🥺

[zealous heath]

Yeah like he only controls part of the void

[stuck berry]

it'd be stupid and dumb and stupid and dumb

[zealous heath]

Maybe just the void that it was inside of the vessels? Or maybe just the portion that was below Hallownest

[stuck berry]

actually he was in white palace for several years you can't make a metroidvania out of that

[zealous heath]

I think a new game in HK universe shouldn't be tied to Hallownest or Pharloom

And I will die in this hill

[tribal cargo]

i saw someone explained it like this

basicly the knight is the king of the void but he doesnt "mind control" all of them like a hive mind
like a king cant control what his subject does or prevent them doing bad things but he have the power to supress/stop it

[radiant smelt]

i like the idea of the knight just being a fish in a vast void ocean. albeit the biggest fish

[stuck berry]

what is there to do in the void

not like you can talk to anyone

[radiant smelt]

swim around

collect siblings like pokemon

[stuck berry]

your fingers will wrinkle!

[radiant smelt]

wrinkly-ass knight

[zealous heath]

I like to think that he can only control one part of the void because he was fighting against his nature

His Will vs his Instinct

[tribal cargo]

are we even getting a new game

[stuck berry]

well it's possible

[zealous heath]

Probably in like 2036

[tribal cargo]

[stuck berry]

I don't see what else team cherry can do aside from whatever fearless fox could be

[zealous heath]

I don't think the next TC game is going to be a metroidvania or even in the HK universe

[tribal cargo]

TC made so much money they legit dont need to do anything else

and split it into 3 people

[radiant smelt]

if we do i think itd make sense to get a character that operates on a completely new system. like, i dont see playable lace or playable hk working well since theyd just retread on the silk and soul systems

[stuck berry]

and the composer and voice actors and localizers and

[timber pond]

Did you read The pre release Interview

[stuck berry]

retreat on the what systems....

[tribal cargo]

id like to think that composer / va / localizer is a one time pay thing rather than taking a cut out of the revenue right?

[zealous heath]

Make a playable skarr that has different weapons and traps

[stuck berry]

i think larkin is gonna have more revenue from spotify and whatever digital storefronts he puts the songs on

[tribal cargo]

yeah definitely

[stuck berry]

hornet already has weapons and traps

where could you even go from here gameplay wise

[tribal cargo]

3d

[timber pond]

Team cherry Havent run out of hollow knight steam at all acording to thier interview answers

[tribal cargo]

[zealous heath]

Make it so he can change weapons mid battle/combo

[stuck berry]

can you even make a metroidvania like that

[stuck berry]

give us quotes

[tribal cargo]

i mean they dont need to stay in the metroidvania genre

[timber pond]

Yes its called a zelda game

[tribal cargo]

elden ring

[zealous heath]

Expand the moveset to something that does different attacks after more than one input instead of repeating the same basic attack

[stuck berry]

hollow knight is intrinsically tied to metroidvanias

[tribal cargo]

do yall think silksong is harder than elden ring

[stuck berry]

it'd be a sin to keep the ip and stray it from that

[stuck berry]

highly subjective and I've never played

[dense aspen]

I love the game

[stuck berry]

you know those useless prequel shows hbo makes like dune or gotham or krypton

[dense aspen]

It's amazing but I wasn't enthralled by the world as mucu

[zealous heath]

I hope they never make s prequel

[stuck berry]

I'd watch one about hallownest/pharloom

[tribal cargo]

u mean elden ring?

[zealous heath]

That would be so boring 😭

[stuck berry]

I'm watching better call saul rn I'm telling you there are so many ways to keep prequels engaging even if you've seen the original

[zealous heath]

I was talking about a prequel game

An animated series that follows quirrel would be peak tho

[stuck berry]

eh his story is all said and done

[zealous heath]

Ending when monomon sleeps and he leaves hallownest

[stuck berry]

better squirrel quirrel

it'd work but only if you add some more spice to it because his story alone would be hella boring

add a look into hallownest's internal politics

the rise of the infection and whatever

[zealous heath]

But we're talking about a prequel, so Quirrel in peak Hallownest and we could actually know how he became the one that was chosen to carry the mask

[ebon silo]

It's just the knight but boring

[zealous heath]

I think quirrel would be the best choice because he's like the best warrior of one of the dreamers so we could see a lot of politics and how the whole plan was made

[ebon silo]

My best case for quirriel is

Be squirrel
Animated show
Sometimes flashbacks or changes POV and is shown from monomons perspective and seeing the infection rise and the discussions of the hallownest kingdom
Ending is monomon killed to unseal the black egg and quirrel finally dying

[timber pond]

Bluds are calling this DLC ambitious, they didnt even call silksong Ambitious😭

[stuck berry]

that'd mean there would be a massive time skip where a lot is left out

[stuck berry]

silk soul is coming back baybeee

[zealous heath]

Imagine if we jumped from Quirrel in current Hallownest and past Hallownest while he is slowly recovering his memories

[ebon silo]

Something something

Everytime quirrel looks at like an important area like let's say he looks at the black egg temple we flashback to monomon and the 2 dreamers and the pale king preparing and shit and etc etc

[stuck berry]

better call saul moment where each season begins with a flash forward to quirrel in the lands beyond

[ebon silo]

and halfway through an episode we see them kiss the dude with the shield for like a split second and blame the wind

[stuck berry]

until the final season which is just the events of the comic and game from his perspective

[zealous heath]

The ending of the series is him just sitting at blue lake

And killing himself or something

Idk how he chooses to go

[stuck berry]

no the camera just fades to black

[flint wadi]

he goes into the lake

[stuck berry]

credits are from the perspective of the knight sitting next to the sword

[flint wadi]

leaving his nail behind

[stuck berry]

no it would be stupid to say what happens

leave it ambiguous

[zealous heath]

Damn they should hire us fr

[stuck berry]

hire fans

[zinc pivot]

How does a quirrel series even come up in this channel

Ngl it would be cool if quirrel could be utilized to introduce distant lands and prominient players like steel city

[stuck berry]

official hollow knight animation on the one hand how on the other hand oooooo i want it

one ticket to the stop motion hollow knight movie please

[dense aspen]

Why does quirrle kill himselfe that's pussy shit

[stuck berry]

he doesn't

[zinc pivot]

Done in by age undefeated is cool wdym

[stuck berry]

for all we know maybe he died of old age

https://tenor.com/view/sand-turned-to-sand-smiling-friends-turned-to-sand-funny-haha-gif-1993845263164085616

[zinc pivot]

Quirrel slash so strong it breaks through uumuus bullshit

[robust wagon]

Nvm misread the message

[sacred pike]

I just realized the root in the cursed ending turned GMS's rounded lower body into an egg/cocoon

[dense aspen]

If he killed himselfe he's a pussy

But dying from old age is badass

[robust wagon]

What 😭

[fringe leaf]

just a detail, but now we know where the pale lady originate from

just another parasite who was born from the death of a pale being

[ebon silo]

Is this the show about those weird looking ass characters that are funny isn't there a character that looks weird and all red and wears a tie and is a woman

[stuck berry]

you mean alan

[stuck berry]

watch smiling friends they post new episodes every sunday and some guy puts them on twitter for free

[ebon silo]

Yeah Twitter is so cool I once opened Twitter on my birthday and got a post having the entire sonic 3 movie

[stuck berry]

they left it up for like a day or two it was awsome

[ebon silo]

Yeah real good

[willow epoch]

killing yourself so no one else can defeat you in battle is the ultimate middle finger

[weak copper]

After getting the last achievement, I'm wondering how many players found the 12.1% one on their own

[robust wagon]

Okay that's entirely a theory

[zinc pivot]

Which is?

[weak copper]

Twsted Child

[zinc pivot]

I myself would say i watched a streamer got the parasite and thought it would bring an unique ending if you fight gms with it
But the internet proceeded to spoil it anyway

[weak copper]

Wow, you got a nice intuition

I myself avoided it completely but was at a stump at what the remainining achievement was

The positioning implies there was a bad ending version to Sisters of the Void but nope

Funnily enough, on my first run I had the parasite for a long time not knowing what to do with it

[weak copper]

But that is why you should avoid the internet no matter what until you got everything yourself

[zinc pivot]

Yeah
Though of course I was too eager to find some Silksong lore discussion

[weak copper]

Same here lmao, I found out about it from this chat and it was only from the name the lightbulb in my head clicked

I didn't feel too letdown because it was the type of challenge I wouldn't have found out until after a long time perhaps because of its obscurity and the lack of any hints besides waiting for one idea to form in your head

Curse you TC

[clear cloak]

Yeah, it’s not the sort of thing it would be reasonable to expect people to find on their own

Something I feel applies to a few of the game’s secrets

[zinc pivot]

This says alot about how TC really want players to keep track of the details
Such as the similarity of the twisted bud cradle to greyroot abode
And if you managed to find it, Yarnabys bellhome (which most people should pass by when they found the pimpillo)

The ending itself does be obscure though, like an easter egg ofc

[weak copper]

^ Once I finally talked to Yavo, I immediately remembered Yarnaby as I marked it on the map and wondered what its purpose was

Tbh I didn't take the similarity between Twisted Bud and Greyroot until much later but in hindsight it made sense, I was more annoyed by the little buggers noises and didn't know how to get rid of it. Yavo's dialogue only happened when I talked to him twice and the rest was history

[clear cloak]

Yeah, it was easy to figure out how to get rid of the curse

But I wouldn’t have figured out the ending if I hadn’t been told

[weak copper]

The first playthrough, the thought wouldn't have come up. The speedrun playthrough, no since that's just a waste of time and its not at the top of the list. Steel Soul, no since you're focused on staying alive and get everything while doing so

[clear cloak]

I guess you could stumble into it if you’re trying to challenge yourself

[weak copper]

True but since its so far into the game the player would've found other means to challenge themselves such as limited damage per second or crest usage

[zinc pivot]

Tbh you can be very unlucky and got it early

Then your primary focus is to cure it

[weak copper]

The last thing players would do on either of the three runs is challenge yourselves

[solemn hinge]

When was the "Vespa training Hornet" thing first hinted at

[zinc pivot]

A reddit ama with team cherry

[solemn hinge]

I see

[zinc pivot]

Silksong canonized it fully

[solemn hinge]

Did it specifically mention Vespa?

[zinc pivot]

Iirc yes

[solemn hinge]

Neat

[weak copper]

I forget when exactly I got it cured but it must've been very late Act 2 or early Act 3. Most of the time I was carrying a little parasite that just made baby noises. The noises it made didn't make me think of Greyroot....but I somehow didn't link the roots together in its resting place

I had it for SO long that I forgot about its home

Whispering Vaults was the first Melody I went to so I naturally found it while exploring it

[zinc pivot]

It’s easy to lose track in your first play through after all

[weak copper]

Whispering Vaults -> High Halls (with Garamond help) -> Cogwork Core (With Fey Cloak) Was my progression through it

[zinc pivot]

Though occasionally you can randomly talk to pavo and he will clue you in

[weak copper]

So you can tell how long I had the baby

Pavo talking about it is first overwritten by other events like quest completing for Bellhert iirc which was also a factor

[zinc pivot]

Exhausting dialogue seems to be not always common among hk players

[fringe leaf]

seem more than likely, i wonder if there is another dead pale being in hollownest?

[eternal sigil]

there should be a hidden ending for carrying the Twisted Bud through Act 3 to LL

[zinc pivot]

PK is the only casualty

[eternal sigil]

not while infected, but the bud itself

[weak copper]

I AM on talking to NPCs just that I've seen Pavos dialogue so many times prior to the baby I didn't think on talking to him again lol

[eternal sigil]

the ending is basically the same but there are baby bud whining noises the entire time

[zinc pivot]

The bud has aversion to the void though
And collapsing gms cocoon in it sounds horrific

Unless knight decided to perform abortion for hornet that way

[edgy barn]

Nah we should get a unique scene where Ghost slips out the bud out of Hornet's pocket and drags it into the void sea as it screams.

[terse warren]

It just doesn't let you

[edgy barn]

They mean carrying the item, not being cursed.

[terse warren]

Ohh

[valid compass]

courier's rasher can be used as a unit of time in pharloom

i've figured it out

[cobalt coyote]

What are you gonna do with that

Hornet is 6482 rashers Old or idk

[charred nimbus]

It's 3 courier's rasher oclock right now

[cobalt coyote]

Im gonna get on in 3 rashers

[valid compass]

5 rasher speedrun

[charred nimbus]

damn, that's hard, my last save i finished the game with a 10 rasher time

[cobalt coyote]

I used to have 18 rashers but i managed to shave 2 rashers off

[valid compass]

the second difficulty in the silksong godhome is gonna be that you have to defeat the boss without the rasher being destroyed

[zinc pivot]

The rasher ascends to godhood and swears revenge against all of its rasher kind by voring hornet

[eternal sigil]

Courier's Rasher: Fragile god of tastiness

[pure belfry]

Is there probably a lore reason why First Sinner shares Widow's soundtrack? I can't imagine it was due to any time or development constraints.

[charred nimbus]

Problaby to mean it's a motif that resolves around weavers

Pretty much

[terse warren]

Real talk is why Sister Splinter plays during Unraveled, Father of the Flame, and Voltvyrm

[past cypress]

Probably some sort of shared "titan" theme

Fourth Chorus doesn't have it because it shares its' theme with Second Sentinel instead

[charred nimbus]

That makes some sense, but i guess the OST name shouldn't be Sister splinter then