sk-lore

[raw pewter]

It is funny how a lot of people are actually ok with killing his own children thing

[stuck berry]

this year is an awful thing for me because people are watching/playing the successors to my favorite anime and game of all time but not watching the original first

[fathom hill]

it is crazy

[stuck berry]

nichijou is fucking awesome you cityheads will never know

and i like city

[fathom hill]

i have watched nichijou dw

[molten python]

If you look at the PoP cutscene, I think he's a pretty good father actually (as long as you ignore a bit of mass infanticide).

[fathom hill]

nichijou is amazing

[stuck berry]

PEAK

PEAK PEAK PEAK

i'm nichijing it so hard rn

[fathom hill]

also arent you happy more people are actually enjoying the stuff you like

[stuck berry]

no i'm a gatekeeper

[fathom hill]

sometimes it feels lonely when i dont have people to talk abt this stuff

[raw pewter]

"None shall pass this gate!"

[fathom hill]

thats why i got you guys all my freinds

[molten python]

There's a sweet spot where there's enough fans to discuss it with but not too mainstream.

[fathom hill]

The FOMO can be annoying but idk

[stuck berry]

not enough people watched nichijou because they don't need it at all to get city unlike silksong

and it pisses me OFF 2008

[fathom hill]

FOMO passes all the time and the people that genuinely loved that work of art can be discussed with

after a while

[quick marten]

Recommending stuff to friends is the best form of gatekeeping cause they will NEVER WATCH ANYTHING you tell them too 🤬

[fathom hill]

this too shall pass or something

[fathom hill]

literally

[raw pewter]

That I can relate

Tried making one of my friend watch Doctor Who, they never did

[fathom hill]

Like i was pestering my brother to play hollow knight for the past 3 years and just now that silksong is out he is willing to play it

So instead of being petty abt it I just think of it as a win

[stuck berry]

speaking of which bistec did you know in the manga nano went to school from the first couple of chapters which they saved for episode 12 of the anime to make the emotions of it and the status quo change hit harder

[raw pewter]

Losing the battle but won the war

[fathom hill]

I should rewatch it man i saw it like three years ago

but i could play silksong in that time, choices

both at the same time

[stuck berry]

true!

[fathom hill]

I tend to lurk in the nichijou subreddit though

Funny people there

also this is one thing, nichijous fanbase is only grander now that city the animation went mainstream so its more active

so I also see that a win

i cant stop winning

[molten python]

I stopped playing Silksong like two weeks ago personally. There's not much to do in the game.

[lethal orbit]

I just got true ending, HOW TF DID ||THE KNIGHT SHOW UP?||

[stuck berry]

grrrr posers grrrrrr fake fans grrrrrrrrrr

[stuck berry]

the true ending of hollow knight shows it cast off it's physical shell and joined it's siblings as a void thing

[fathom hill]

im trying to do that run people do with like, saving everyone the trobbio purple quill thing

And also to refresh my lore memory for yall

[zealous heath]

Weird question but does anyone know if Gurr (the big ant boss) is taken by the smaller ants like any other skarr that you kill?

[lethal orbit]

So it can just go anywhere as long as the voud is present there?

[stuck berry]

sure

[molten python]

Got it during Steel Heart.

[raw pewter]

So, I think we all know that Weavers have problem conceiving a child, but doesn't mean it's impossible, as seen in the Cradle of all the different cage stating they captured descendants of Weaver (Sixth part, etc), so we know Weavers are capable of having children, but because of how rare it is, we only seen like a handful of cages, and that the children of the Weavers inside those crates are not even half weavers. Hornet being the child of Pale Being and Weaver was able to retain half of the Weaver bloodline

[zealous heath]

Wish this did anything

[foggy fractal]

it looks purple

that's what it does

[molten python]

I had to do 3 playthroughs so why not get all the quills.

[silk dirge]

i wish my brother played anything other than roblox damn

[zealous heath]

I'm asking this because I came back to his boss arena and the body is just gone lol

[stuck berry]

i would've liked it to make the entire map purple for no reason

[fathom hill]

maybe weavers can only reproduce with those specially fertile or only higher beings or pale beings

[stuck berry]

he was an outcast so probably not

[foggy fractal]

purple ink

[quick marten]

I think that wasn't because they can't retain weaver genes but because they were further down the family tree from their weaver ancestor

[silk dirge]

my dad told me i should convince my brother to play silksong an im like "do you have any idea how difficult silksong is lol"

[fathom hill]

those fertilization doesnt work like that irl

[molten python]

Yeah. Weaver children cannot be full Weavers though, all Weaver children are only part Weaver.

[zealous heath]

The other death mottled Skarr we see is not picked up by the smaller ants so if Gurr body isn't there he could have survived? (Copium)

[raw pewter]

Mhm, and Hornet being a perfect half weaver half Pale Being is because of the Pale Being gene being compatible with Weaver's gene

[foggy fractal]

nah silksong is easy TRUST

[molten python]

Yes.

[fathom hill]

herrah

[stuck berry]

different mother than the vessels

[quick marten]

Herrah plus no void

[stuck berry]

hornet's a bastard

[zealous heath]

Herrah is a spider

[stuck berry]

i wonder what a non-vessel child of the pale king and white lady would look like

[zealous heath]

Also the children are vessels because the eggs were infused with void juice

[stuck berry]

political union

[fathom hill]

yah but the white lady doesnt hold resentment

[quick marten]

Yup and the White Lady sat in a chair and watched the whole thing

[raw pewter]

No, every party involved consent to it

[stuck berry]

"you give my kingdom a princess i sacrifice my body so your child can contain the radiance"

[fathom hill]

actually im sure it was white lady that raised hornet alongside the bees

[zealous heath]

If they weren't we can assume that the children of the pale King would be just "normal" bugs

[stuck berry]

erm oops!

[fathom hill]

oo bad word

[quick marten]

What did he say

[raw pewter]

Naughty naughty, put your Rosaries in the Swear Jar

[stuck berry]

now i will have to pay 16 rosaries for bench sit instead of 15 😔

[zealous heath]

Anyway, Gurr is alive, ant dlc is real!!!11

[silk dirge]

i wonder if hornet was only good with silk perhaps bc she was also part wyrm so her ability to manipulate soul synergized

[fathom hill]

20 actually

[raw pewter]

Ooo that could be, since silk are also made of souls

[silk dirge]

i love it when my messages send 5 minutes after i intended to send them

thanks discord

[timber pond]

Wait

[silk dirge]

the choral commandment for her capture says she is "sensed strong with silk" which is not said for any other captured weavers

[stuck berry]

silk... and soul.... hmm....

[timber pond]

QUICK SOMEONE GIVE ME THE NOSK ENTRY

[fathom hill]

could be

[raw pewter]

Hornet is Silking it

[stuck loom]

Silksoulng

[fathom hill]

isnt there a command for it

[zealous heath]

Is nosk a weaver?

[raw pewter]

One must wonder what Paradox gonna cook

[fathom hill]

is this the styx thing again

[fathom hill]

please not

[timber pond]

ITS EMBRACE THE VOID

[zealous heath]

Ok but that description is weavers power tho

[timber pond]

My brain exploded

[zealous heath]

I'm half-joking here

[stuck berry]

is skynx was a nosk-like how could it have stolen styx from hornet's memory if she doesn't meet him in the steel soul timeline

[fathom hill]

i dont get it

[raw pewter]

I used to be a Dream No More guy, but after some very convincing reddit post I converted to Embrace the Void

[fathom hill]

whihc is which again

[stuck berry]

imagine getting your opinion swayed by reddit

[zealous heath]

I need context because I read this message and my only thought was: what the hell

[raw pewter]

Embrace the Void is the one with the Shade Lord

[stuck berry]

true ending vs godmaster 1

[fathom hill]

i get all my opinions from reddit

[timber pond]

Nosk appearing as Hornet MEANS:

[stuck berry]

hey you @fathom hill styxlover thoughts on this

[raw pewter]

Actually let me clarify, I am Delicate Flower ending guy now

[stuck berry]

both godseeker and the knight dissappear in this one though

[zealous heath]

DNM > all

[fathom hill]

good question

[timber pond]

Nah The Hollow Knight aint in the void

[zealous heath]

What if skynx is just silly and that's why he's upside down?

[molten python]

Because Hornet had probably met Styx in the normal playthrough before she unlocked Steel Soul.

[raw pewter]

Yes, but in regular Embrace the Void, the void leak out and presumably consume all of Hallownest, the Delicate Flower just neutralize that and possibly give the Knight his regular short shade form again

[fathom hill]

either skynx is not a nosk like entity which would be weird or the journal entry is not as literal

[zealous heath]

The siblings don't appear in the embrace the void ending so...

[stuck berry]

you can unlock steel soul mode without playing it

[fathom hill]

Please explain like im three

[raw pewter]

Also the fact we don't see the Hollow Knight shade in Siblings of Void

[stuck berry]

it could be etv but it can't be flower

[molten python]

Yeah, that's why I said probably. That's unlikely though, nobody starts with Steel Soul.

[molten python]

Why not flower?

[timber pond]

They Dont need to. The Form the Knight takes Can be done at any time after getting void heart Acording to Chozo statue you get shade dash from. he demonstrates this in silksongs ending

[zealous heath]

Dlc ending isn't canon, stop fooling yourselves

[fathom hill]

It makes sense from a meta knowledge perspective but not in game no? since steel soul is a different save file

[stuck berry]

because they both get absorbed into the flower and dissappear

[raw pewter]

Poop think the flower kill the Shade Lord and the void

[timber pond]

THe Knight cares about hornet and thats why Nosk In godhome appears as Hornet.

[fathom hill]

So Hornet never knew styx in that timeline but we did

thats actually quite clever

if its to imply further that skynx is nosk like

[fathom hill]

Gotcha

Thats fun

[timber pond]

Nosk Seems to "immitate" what you care about

[limpid summit]

I will defend this till the day I die
There are any number of reasons
We don’t know that Nosk’s shape shifting powers are specifically limited to creatures from memories that’s just how it hunts it could be masquerading as Styx to be less conspicuous
Or it replicated Styx’s favorite mask in order to kill him and it’s still in that form

[molten python]

Our save files actually exist in-game, that's why a save file can be taken over by void tendrils.

[zealous heath]

THK not being in the picture doesn't mean anything since THK big void form is only seen in the dream realm and we actually see him being small in the pantheon before radiance 🫵🤨

[timber pond]

MEaning Over the course of HOllow Knight, the Knight actually COMEs to care about hornet

[stuck berry]

why would this nosklike be satisfied with merely silkeaters though

[limpid summit]

As we don’t see any bonds Styx has (similar to TK) he’s so very alone

[fathom hill]

Ahh idk how to put in in lore though since hollow knight is not a game that awknoledges the player in any way or the fact its a videogame

[limpid summit]

Well it’s a living grub

[stuck berry]

if it killed nosk like you all said why not hornet

[fathom hill]

Theres a need to separate the lore cool things form the mechanic game cool things

[limpid summit]

We don’t know how much an uninfected Nosk would actually eat

It hunts because that’s what it did when it was around

[timber pond]

He Would Depict himself in some way at the very least to see hornet, because we know He has a far deeper history with her and the pale king than Little Ghost.

[molten python]

I thought only the Godseeker disappeared. So the dream world also disappeared, I don't think it would kill the actual Shade Lord. Like what happens when you win against a dream boss, the dream disappears and you wake up outside.

[zealous heath]

We actually don't know that because we never see them bonding or interacting tho

[fathom hill]

but it is shown that the mask it has was stolen from his body, not before

[limpid summit]

It’s shown that his head is severed

It could have ate the mask

[fathom hill]

lol

[limpid summit]

There’s tons of possibilities that lead to Skynx being a Nosk why would we stick with a boring one

[fathom hill]

ok maybe

[eternal sigil]

biggest indicator to me that Godhome ending is canon is the Godhome musical riff/motif that plays when Ghost appears before Hornet in Sister of the Void

[frigid hazel]

||Hey, so the HK ending where THK seems to stand over Hornet… is does that relate at all to SS?

Do you think we’ll ever see a connection there?

It was such a good ending that I think a lot of people would’ve seen but… with P5’s ending being cannon idk what to think about how HK’s Hornet gets to Pharloom (how/where she gets captured and all that)||

[limpid summit]

Short answer is maybe, probably yes

There’s no reason to include a Hornet cutscene otherwise

[eternal sigil]

the appearance of the Shade Lord is suggestive of Godhome canonicity but not utterly so

[zealous heath]

P5 isn't canon, none of the endings is confirmed to be canon

[frigid hazel]

And that the Void Beast form flashes in that scene

[eternal sigil]

the music on the other hand has no other reason to be present

[fathom hill]

we may see thk again wouldnt make sense to have that unanswered

[frigid hazel]

I’ll die on that hill. It’s def cannon, at least for me

[raw pewter]

Only answer is: It's up to Team Cherry at this point if they want to do anything about, also the fact no endings of HK is confirmed to be the canon endings

[zealous heath]

There's also 0 references to THK being alive or at least outside of the egg

[timber pond]

It is at the very least Heavily implied with Path Of Pain that this can very much be the case. And since THK lived long enough To Grow 3X the Hight of a baby, it Will have more to care about.

[limpid summit]

I think the very ending of Silksong is left ambiguous but the exclusion of THK in any form is weird

[molten python]

TC said that all endings are equally canon, it's up to you.

[eternal sigil]

it's either Dream No More or Embrace the Void and there is more circumstantial evidence in favor of the latter than the former

[zealous heath]

It's not? We only see THK interacting with the Pale King, assuming he did bond with Hornet is full speculation based on nothing

[timber pond]

Because the game isnt about Him its about Hornet.( Getting a game about him would be peak)

[eternal sigil]

at barest minimum it is known that Sealed Siblings cannot be canon

[limpid summit]

Upvote to the first one while I do believe the second

Sealed Siblings, HK, and obviously any ending where TK dies are noncanon

[molten python]

It's actually the Sealed Siblings ending since Sealed Siblings = SS = Silksong.

[zealous heath]

For all we know Hornet was born shortly after THK entered the black egg since we can see that hornet was so little that it doesn't fully remember Herrah

We see in the memories that her face/mask is all blurry

[frigid hazel]

The only way I see that not being considered or somehow tied in is if that ending was made thinking that Hornet was only gonna be a DLC and it somehow ties to what their plans were for that. With the DLC ballooning into something entirely different, I see a world where they just kinda ignore that ending altogether and write it off as “not cannon”

[eternal sigil]

it does seem likely that Hornet interacted minimally with THK as she was basically a toddler/baby when it was sealed away and Herrah put into magically induced coma

[molten python]

If THK got their own game, it probably would be very different from HK and SS. It seems very unlikely that THK ever left Hallownest, and Hallownest wasn't this infected back then so most bugs will be normal bugs and not enemies. Also THK was mostly in the White Palace training.

[zealous heath]

Hornet references seeing a higher being go down which would be weird if the void consumed Hallownest and she wasn't even present or aware* of the Pantheon events
She also doesn't make reference to that event even after Pharloom has void in it

[eternal sigil]

and it also seems that the plan worked for long enough that Hornet grew up and completed her training with the Hive before moving to the Pale Court

[timber pond]

If they are Both as long lived as eachother Due to thier nature, It Is a high possibility to be around the same time. But you are right, its not confirmed, Largely Because the Passage of time is kept Track in "Ages", so its very hard to quantify. But i dont really base my Intution off of that Technicality.

[sullen cave]

Is there really no other significance to the Void doing this other than showing that some time passed between Hornet and GMS's battle to Act 3?

[limpid summit]

It’s also hype and aura

[molten python]

There is a lot of significance to this. It shows that the void is aware of metadata and save files, and can even interact with a player's save files.

[chrome atlas]

It's a fourth-wall nudging 'hey, this is probably a big deal' thing

[limpid summit]

So true

[timber pond]

IT would Be after P5 Embrace the Void because that Allows for the Most new ideas.

[eternal sigil]

she referenced a god falling, which could refer either to her own father or to the sudden disappearance of the Radiance seen in Embrace the Void; all that is known is that the statement notes Hornet's observance that Higher Beings are able to perish and fail

[zealous heath]

I mean the reality is that is ambiguous and there's evidence for both endings being canon

But my point was that THK would'nt necessarily appear to hornet since she was a baby/toddler when he was being sealed so he was in the black egg while she was growing up

It is unlikely that they formed a bond specially with the Pale King plan of making a pure vessel

[eternal sigil]

Void is Gaster confirmed

[sullen cave]

See that's what I was thinking. The Void being aware of the 4th wall is fkn terrifying from my perspective. How powerful is this shit?

[zealous heath]

It is cool and scared the shit out of some people (me)

[rugged storm]

wait guys I might just be doing too much physics, but there are updrafts in far fields because the cold air sinks from mount fay, heats up at far fields, rises into greymoor, and then cools down and disperses, I'm a genius

[stray fog]

The pinstress's attacks are kinda similar to bilewater enemies

And there is a pinstress in bilewater

I think the pinstresses originated in bilewater

[timber pond]

It Could really go either way, I personally Think them Being in proximity While being raised is far more interesting Because it can create future interactions and conflict To be Hype about.

[sour moat]

how do i reach that ||flea||

[harsh onyx]

There’s a dead pinstress in bile water, she probably taught them.

[rugged storm]

it's stupid, you need to go to wisp thicket

[limpid summit]

The pinstresses may be Stilkin yeah

[harsh onyx]

There are 3 of them, one gives you the cloak upgrade, another the nail charge attack and the 3rd dead

[sour moat]

what the fuck

[zealous heath]

I respect that
I think they being apart and not really being siblings creates a more interesting contrast with little Ghost

[timber pond]

Like Thats why i Largely Think ETV is cannon (or want it to be) because its the most Interesting, and a clifhanger of "WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO HORNET AND THE HOLLOW KNIGHT?! TUNE IN NEXT TIME ON BUGSLIFE" and then they only answered half of that question.

[molten python]

The third gives you Wreath of Purity.

[harsh onyx]

Ah I forgot about that

[molten python]

Bilewater? Wasn't the third in Putrified Ducts?

[timber pond]

Which if they are willing to answer one half, they would be willing to answer the other eventually.

[harsh onyx]

Probably, still it’s connected and nearby enough to say she probably trained or helped the residents of bilewater

The citadel kinda screwed over those guys which is why it is run down and infested

[graceful grail]

Yes, but the stillkin probly ended her

[zealous heath]

Nah for me is the most boring ending because it is 100% irrelevant for hornet and silksong in general while DNM has hornet being an active part of the defeat of Radiance and has her facing the "death" of Ghost which gives it more weight to seeing him again in the void, this time with the roles reversed and him being the one that helps her

[molten python]

If she grew up in Bilewater, wouldn't it be more likely that she got her training the same way others in Bilewater did?

[harsh onyx]

That implies the other pinstress’s also trained there, which is unlikely

[zealous heath]

Didn't we knew that bilgewater wasn't always "infected"?

[graceful grail]

The third pinstress is in bilewater like clothing unlike her sisters

[molten python]

It wasn't before the Sittydel.

[molten python]

Why is that unlikely?

[graceful grail]

Why else would they have hate for the citidel and their waste like the text above and right of groals arena says

[eternal sigil]

ngl a good 40% of my belief in EtV hinges on THK being able to reappear either in Skong or hypothetical sequels being dope as fuck and something I want to see happen

[timber pond]

Its Relevant To the Ending Of silksong if you take The Nosk Parallel into account. The Hollow Knight Still Living Is also the tradeoff of the interaction.

[zealous heath]

So maybe the Pintress were part of a "resistance" while the other stilkin just adapted? I mean that would explain the fear the two sisters have of the citadel knowing where they are and shit

[harsh onyx]

Because they all are in different areas, and they have similar skills. If it was all three of their homes why would they all abandon it

[timber pond]

ITs Just more Interesting For The Hollow Knight To live tbh.

[harsh onyx]

I agree

[quick marten]

Dream no more is so much better narratively

[timber pond]

A game about Finding a New purpose with THK would be Sick

[eternal sigil]

also yeah Bilewater probably resembled Verdania at some point in the distant past but was contaminated with sewage and industrial pollution, mutating/poisoning the ecosystem of the region and turning the Stillkin into a bunch of Unabombers

[graceful grail]

The one who teaches you needle arts has a sign pointing directly to her house, and its like, right next to the citidell gates

[zealous heath]

100%

[quick marten]

Hornet and the hollow knight helping, and when all the other vessels start to rise up in the final climb against the radiance... way better than the shade lord and having the hollow knight live

[molten python]

Why would they abandon it? I don't know, would you like living in Bilewater?

[zealous heath]

I'm 100% sure they're stillkin
What I'm wondering is why these two sisters are outside and dress differently than the one we see dead in bilewater

[eternal sigil]

another fun factoid:

• Stillkin (the common ones) throw a pair of spikes horizontally at the player
• Stillkin Trappers throw a few spikes down at the player from above
• Pinstress in her duel can either throw horizontal volleys of spikes, or descending vertical ones

[rugged storm]

guys wait all the weaver bosses (not phantom and lace, aren't even weavers in the first place) have a fake death hit, widow, first sinner, and gms before going into a second phase

[graceful grail]

Why do some contries war, sometimes just because they consider the land originaly and or rightly theirs. It could be a matter of pride.

[eternal sigil]

and the Stillkin's spikes are basically just pins made from natural materials with explosive bile bulbs attached to the blunt end

[zealous heath]

That's fun lol, idk how I didn't notice that

[molten python]

All I'm saying is that it's very possible that they left Bilewater. Are you trying to argue that them leaving Bilewater is unlikely?

[zealous heath]

I hope we get a fight against the red sister and a memorie fight against the dead one

[hazy meadow]

hey question

what do the weavers say before you claim a new ability?

[rugged storm]

half spawn of a distant land

[eternal sigil]

I suspect that the Pinstresses originated as a group of Stillkin warriors of particular skill who for some reason left Bilewater for the Citadel. Perhaps they were hired by them for their talents to train/defend the place, perhaps they were just Stillkin who left Bilewater for life in a more materially advanced civilization, perhaps they were adherents of the Citadel faith and moved there for religious purposes.

[molten python]

Daughter of a distant land... We who remained have waited long... Bind our strength to yours... Reclaim the future of our haunted kingdom...

[hazy meadow]

is it the same every time?

[stuck berry]

and when they tried to return to bilewater they killed one for being a traitor

[molten python]

I think the First Sinner calls her half spawn iirc.

[stuck berry]

so the other two left and the citadel sent the fourth chorus after seamstress who dispatched it

[eternal sigil]

tbf the dead one is in the Putrefied Ducts, far from any other living Stillkin

[rugged storm]

yeah

[stuck berry]

tch right

[eternal sigil]

might be that she just camped out there and died of poison

[stuck berry]

you think that jailer fly corpse that you can find went after her

[zealous heath]

There wasn't a diary entry or some dialog about the guys from the citadel looking like they were trained with the pin by experts or something? I need to look at my hunters notes

[stuck berry]

the one that has it's head lodged into the tongue guy

[zealous heath]

I half remember something about this

[hazy meadow]

oh yeah first sinner's is diff

half-spawn of a distant land...
within this cage i have waited...
let my strength be bound to yours...
reclaim the future of our accursed kingdom...

[eternal sigil]

second sentinel uses the cross-strike attack otherwise solely seen with Pinstress so this is expressly supported by in-game evidence

[molten python]

I think because the First Sinner is testing Hornet specifically. The other ones were just left there in hopes some Weaver spawn eventually finds it.

[eternal sigil]

not sure about journal entry implications, there were some where Hornet muses on who taught them to use Silk but idk about pin fighting

[molten python]

"This bug bears a spool of Silk, which they flail to attack. Though somewhat crude, theirs is a technique much reminiscent of Weavers. I wonder who taught them such a use?"

[eternal sigil]

yeah that's about the Silk Skills it would seem

[molten python]

Yes, the "Threadstorm" of the Grand Reeds.

[zealous heath]

Pinstress entry says something about her being old and liking to teach too

[eternal sigil]

and the smaller Reeds have the knockoff Silkspear

[molten python]

She did teach Hornet, that's why.

[zealous heath]

Nah I was tripping, she just references them being obviously well trained in the use of their weapons

[hazy meadow]

hey where the heck is the weaver tablet thingy in bilewater

[eternal sigil]

Yeah they have definite hints as to tutoring others in the Citadel, before the Citadel became hostile to them. IIRC either she or Seamstress mentions that in dialogue

[hazy meadow]

wiki says there is one but the location img is failing to load

[eternal sigil]

Bottom right of the map, there's a weavenest you have to swim in the poop water to find

[hazy meadow]

oh murglin

[molten python]

The normal Reeds don't have Silkspear, the Choristors do.

[zealous heath]

"She survived a lot more than the rest of her order"
That's also interesting

[eternal sigil]

aren't Choristors the bugs with the big staves who charge and stuff

[zealous heath]

Those are the little warrior ones

[molten python]

Choristors are the small ones that use knockoff Silkspear.

Reeds are the flying pin-users.

[eternal sigil]

ah damn right

[neat rain]

Do we know how old HornetBug is?

or is it vaguely "really old"

[hazy meadow]

old as balls

[molten python]

Also, all the bugs that use knockoff Silk skills have a chance to drop their Silk spool.

[eternal sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-old-man-deltarune-chapter-4-gerson-old-man-gerson-gif-9899296470632859392

[zealous heath]

Older than Hallownest fall

[boreal lantern]

can't think of anywhere else to bring this up but i think ||Grand Mother Silk|| refers to herself with the royal "we" pronoun similar to Forge Daughter if she's the one talking in the Silk Heart memories

[zealous heath]

I thought the ones talking there were the weavers

[hazy meadow]

she has outlived multiple of her partners, outlived hive queen vespa and (supposedly) her hive as a whole, she watched hallownest fall, was there for the birth of the pure vessel, and now has lived long enough to make it to pharloom after the radiance's defeat

[zealous heath]

First Sinner memory is similar to that so

[boreal lantern]

Needolin/Rune Rage are Widow/First Sinner's memories

Silk Heart 1/3 are ||GMS'|| I'm pretty sure

[zealous heath]

There's no pure vessel tho ☝️🤓

[neat rain]

and apparently she has a obsession with fluffy things? absolutely adorable for being a badass lol God i love em

[boreal lantern]

I mean it says witness "our" (her) waking cuz she's ||stuck in the giant silk coccoon in the cradle||

[keen summit]

Technically wasn't verdania doomed before the arrival of gms since the rulers wouldn't have produce a heir anyways leading the kingdom to not have a future ruler after the dancers pass away. Well unless they adopt

[eternal sigil]

Hornet's age is contingent on three unknowns:

• how long between the sealing of the Hollow Knight + Dreamers and the second fall of Hallownest (long enough for her to grow up it seems)
• how long between the fall of Hallownest and the events of Hollow Knight
• how long between the events of Hollow Knight and the events of Skong

Chronology on all of these is vague. At barest minimum Hornet had time to grow from a little kid to an accomplished warrior trained under both Vespa and White Lady before the fall of Hallownest

[boreal lantern]

idk why hornet complains about not being able to pet the mossgrubs/bell furries
she's friends with an entire caravan of fluffy friendly fleas

[molten python]

We have zero information on time spans, we don't know the age of anything. It's all vague, we only know some chronology.

[fathom hill]

I mean one of them has to be, pls thk not appearing in the void even if they could is also an indicament that at least they want us to consider that thk being out there is an option

[zealous heath]

I think you're right

[fathom hill]

If they wanted to tie that nicely so they don't have trouble with it for future project they could have just put thk in the void maybe

[boreal lantern]

I really wish she had some actual in-game dialogue (in-person)

[eternal sigil]

they direly need to add a flea petting function to the Caravan and/or Fleatopia

[boreal lantern]

Cuz we can't even glean her thoughts with Needolin like how we can dream nail Radiance

[eternal sigil]

minigame that is Hornet inside a ball pit (but the balls are fleas)

[boreal lantern]

[eternal sigil]

dies of ecstatic bliss from furball overload

[neat rain]

alas, maybe in Hollow Knight 3 in a few decades later /j

[boreal lantern]

like they could at least make her sing without being stunned like First Sinner does

[molten python]

Obviously, she's the source of all Silk, you can't use your Silk to control her.

[boreal lantern]

read the message literally above this one

First Sinner isn't stunned/controlled by Needolin but she still has dialogue from it

[molten python]

That seems very out of character. We know the First Sinner is on Hornet's side.

[boreal lantern]

I at least wanted something besides total silence

oh and the (Act 3) ||frequent deafening screams of agony that plague me across the entire map at all times||

[molten python]

You can turn that off.

[boreal lantern]

With a mod

[molten python]

No.

[boreal lantern]

Which I did do eventually but it was still annoying on my first playthrough

[boreal lantern]

What

[molten python]

It gets turned off when you get to Act 4.

[dry bridge]

Given the lifespan of the green prince, I don't think this would be a problem for a long time, though also theres no reason a successor or two couldn't be chosen eventually

[boreal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[dry bridge]

Act 4: two kingdoms is real and hornet can freely travel between hallownest and pharloom as both lands rebuild trust me

[boreal lantern]

Would be peak ngl

[dry bridge]

Fair enough

[boreal lantern]

okay but like

what was Hornet even doing in Hallownest when she got nabbed

[molten python]

It's also very possible that the Green Princes did not have royal blood. The game mentions that hunting the Pale Stag was what proved their divine right to rule.

Maybe the strongest rules?

[dry bridge]

The pale stag may or may not have actually existed

[molten python]

Looking for fluffy creatures.

[slow locust]

they could have claimed the fur/leaves it drops around

or straight up the whole body

i dont think the mantis of pharloom would've accepted them if there were no proof

[dry bridge]

Nvm double checked dialogue he does straight up say they hunted the pale stag

[molten python]

What if the Palestag was a pale being?

[cloud mesa]

no then i think it would be pale not green

[slow locust]

i'm pretty sure she's a pale being

[dry bridge]

It's possible! Though it would have been an especially minor pale being compared to our other examples

[slow locust]

since wyrm higher being and pale are different

[slow locust]

nothing says that pale beings have to be higher beings even tho that most of them are higher beings...

[hazy meadow]

hey question do we know what GMS wanted with the weaver descendants?

[slow locust]

bind em

[molten python]

It commanded the grass and leaves to attack. It seemed completely at one with the flora and fauna around it, according to the Hunter's Journal. Maybe the Palestag gave life to Verdania? Killing the Palestag eventually resulted in the decline of Verdania. I don't believe it myself but it's fun to theorize.

[hazy meadow]

like.. absorb their energy???

[slow locust]

yeah they were meant to make gms eternal but betrayed her

so she's regaining the power they got from her and more because of their descendants

[hazy meadow]

ok i just wanted to double check she wasnt just. keeping them trapped in the cradle or smth

[midnight hedge]

hornet’s field notes also kinda imply that the green prince’s reimagning of the pale stag could be heavily influenced by his own bias and not reflect the original creature

[molten python]

I think the fact that Weavers have to pass on the divine Silk to their descendants may be part of the reason it's hard for them to have children.

[slow locust]

well it is his memories so those aren't 100% acurrate

[midnight hedge]

thats what I said 😭

[slow locust]

idk maybe because they were artificially made so they can have children properly like dog races

[slow locust]

better wording

[dry bridge]

Green prince also describes it as touched pale, which to me implies it was if anything blessed or influenced by a pale entity rather than being one itself

[midnight hedge]

yeah

[molten python]

Wdym?

[whole marsh]

Where is true stated? Genuinely curious

[slow locust]

that since weavers aren't natural they weren't meant to have children so they organ are all messed up

[slow locust]

What that they were meant to make gms eternal or the betrayal?

the first is mentioned after the widow fight

[whole marsh]

Make her eternal

[slow locust]

"...For her light... eternal... our song sustains..."

the only weaver that didn't betray gms

[ebon silo]

I don't think the plaestag is a pale being tbh it's too frail and weak

Unless of course the one we fought is just an imagination from said green prince

[slow locust]

what says that pale beings can't be frail and weak?

[slow locust]

well he says that's what it made them the rulers

[molten python]

It's not impossible that she betrayed GMS.

[ebon silo]

Well typically for you to be a pale being you'd have an immense source of strength like atleast to uphold that title of said pale being

[molten python]

We know she was punished for something, although we can't be sure if GMS was the one who punished her.

[slow locust]

"How fine her shell, and Silk, and claw... For you, mother... let me claim her all for you!"

she seems loyal to GMS

[dry bridge]

Green prince says they hunted and felled the pale stag so there definitely was a pale stag that exists, the question is just if it's just like, an albino clover stag or if it's pale in the hollow knight sense

[ebon silo]

My headcanon for widow is that

Stayed true loyal to GMS
Weavers didn't liked that
Remove her head to humiliate her and remove her of her weaver identity
Strip her away of her weaver powers by forcebly striking pins behind her back

[molten python]

It is possible she became loyal after GMS woke up and she got punished. Still, this is just speculation.

[molten python]

Maybe.

[slow locust]

She seems punished by the other weavers tbh

[whole marsh]

Hmm, idk if I 100% agree with that interpretation. Because wasn’t the citadel song supposed to keep GMS asleep?

I need to do some more digging to get a better idea of GMS and the weavers’ relationship and betrayal.

[ebon silo]

The weavers did not like GMS so surely if one of them did and stayed loyal they would've been punished by their own

[slow locust]

She doesn't live in the citadel tho maybe she was born BEFORE the weavers betrayed GMS

[hazy meadow]

hi fellas i have. questions

the architects, were they always constructs? or were they once bugs

[ebon silo]

Yeah I mean powered by dead souls but still machine

[slow locust]

as far as we know yeah

[hazy meadow]

yeah i mean. were ALL the architects constructs? or were there once bug architects

[ebon silo]

Well yes surely?

[slow locust]

it seems more likely that the weavers made the architects

[ebon silo]

Who makes machine?
Machine.
But who made Machine?
Man.

Something like that

[molten python]

We don't know when she went to Bellhart though. Also, didn't she go to Bellhart for the Haunting, which was after GMS woke up?

[hazy meadow]

did the architects did any actual architecture????

[slow locust]

technically no

[molten python]

She was one of the first-generation Weavers though so she was almost definitely born before the Weavers betrayed GMS.

[dry bridge]

It's possible the architects did something like how they made the cogwork dancers but to themselves

[hazy meadow]

misleading title

[molten python]

Yes.

[dry bridge]

Well someone built the citadel

[ebon silo]

That someone are the weavers

[slow locust]

I'd say most weavers were born before they betrayed them because we never see a male weaver and we know they have trouble with birth

[dry bridge]

And everything that was built after the weavers left?

[cloud mesa]

the conductors and co did that

right?

[ebon silo]

Yes the conductors and architects took over

[slow locust]

there were little things that were made after the weavers left

[hazy meadow]

the conductors are in charge of the choir

[cloud mesa]

all of the brass steampunk guys

do the brass steampunk guys have a group name?

[hazy meadow]

whom

[ebon silo]

Constructs?
Clankers?

[hazy meadow]

give us a description

CLANKERS IS CRAZY

[cloud mesa]

like conductors architect choir that robot knight the robot in far fields

[molten python]

Huh? The Weavers ruled Pharloom, why would they build the Citadel themselves?

[hazy meadow]

fourth chorus?

[slow locust]

to trap GMS 😭 😭

[cloud mesa]

yes

[hazy meadow]

yeah those are made by the architects, theres more seen in their little area

[slow locust]

yeah

[molten python]

I mean wouldn't they order other bugs to build it?

[slow locust]

they dumb asf

[cloud mesa]

is binding a weaver thing or a wyrm thing?

or a uniquely hornet thing

[slow locust]

you have to be joking

[hazy meadow]

weaver thing

[cloud mesa]

well idk i don’t see weavers absorbing the powers of foes

[slow locust]

they don't need to

[hazy meadow]

binding is a silk thing, silk is a weaver thing

[slow locust]

ERMMM

technically 🤓 🤓

[hazy meadow]

DONT GET SPECIFIC WITH ME SHUT

IM DUMBING IT DOWN OKAY

[slow locust]

[cloud mesa]

but crests are a hornet thing right?

[hazy meadow]

maybe?

[slow locust]

no(?)

[hazy meadow]

i dont think its explicitly clear what crests are

[slow locust]

we only see hornet do it but there isn't a thing that says the other can't

[hazy meadow]

cause to us, crests are just, movesets

[slow locust]

stand ts imo

[hazy meadow]

lmao

[slow locust]

-# do you know what i meant?

[feral inlet]

Crests seem like a sort of core?

[hazy meadow]

i read stand and i fully thought "oh like jojo"

but im joking mostly

[slow locust]

YESSSS

[lapis creek]

from evas dialogue we know crests exist separately from hornet

[slow locust]

i feel like crests is like stand so it's a soul-like thing

[feral inlet]

I figure hornet can collect them since she shares some traits with them such as architect which she does build her own weapons at times

[lapis creek]

hornet just has a malleable nature that contributes to the way she changes or expands her own

[slow locust]

and when hornet binds them she basically gets their disks and put them in her

[feral inlet]

But she does bind to collect them as well so she might just be taking someone else’s

[feral inlet]

Jojo part 6?!

[hazy meadow]

do we know if phantom's name was always phantom??

cause lace's name makes sense, lace like yk, the woven thing.

[cloud mesa]

who’s naming their pretend kid phantom

[slow locust]

do we know if something is the past always like that? nah if it's not specifically said we don't know

we can only assume it has been like that

[slow locust]

a higher being that doesn't talk

[rugged storm]

maybe phantom was originally called something thread related, but forgot, or abandoned the name cause she unraveled a bit

[molten python]

Everyone has a crest, Hornet is unique in that she can change her crest.

[hazy meadow]

i mean i could argue hornets name doesnt make sense

daughter of a wyrm and spider

[rugged storm]

queen vespa

[molten python]

I think GMS was just a fan of Phantom of the Opera.

[cloud mesa]

she’s named after her kinda god mother kinda

[hazy meadow]

and you're named after a bee that says "screw you"

this is a very like, bad explaination but you get what i mean

[hazy meadow]

surely she had her name before training under vespa

[rugged storm]

queen vespa was one of her mothers, she doesn't remember herrah, so she just remembers her bee name

[molten python]

That's even worse. Child of worm and spider, raised by a plant, trained by a bee, but named after a wasp.

[cloud mesa]

pk and vespa probably were old friends

[hazy meadow]

THIS GUY GETS IT BAHAHAAHA

[molten python]

Vespa is not any explanation, bees and wasps are two different species. Hornet is not named after the bees.

[rugged storm]

yup

[cloud mesa]

vespa means wasp tho

[rugged storm]

maybe team cherry is actually very bad at entomology and just like insects

[molten python]

Oh the Italian word. That makes more sense.

[hazy meadow]

and i dont think "anthophila" makes a good queen bee name

[molten python]

Vespidae makes sense.

Although it's weird the queen of bees is named after wasps.

[rugged storm]

isn't vespidae an encompassing family or am I tweaking

[cloud mesa]

i like the idea that pk and vespa were close that’s my new head canon

[rugged storm]

nope

[hazy meadow]

vespidae is a family of wasps

eusocial wasps and solitary wasps

[molten python]

The word wasp comes from Latin vespa.

[rugged storm]

I'm actually learning entomology I should know this😭

[mint stratus]

This adds to my theory that queen vespa is a car

[molten python]

Actually not comes from, they are cognates. Both vespa and wasp come from the same PIE word.

[rugged storm]

maybe mortal bugs with long lifespans just get really big especially if they are the leader of eusocial bugs

but also get weaker?

cause bugs are only strong for their size maybe

[mint stratus]

The Mexican honey wasp is the only species of wasp that makes honey

[slow locust]

vespa is just wasp in latin and hornet is just another type of bee-like bug

[molten python]

Vespa = wasp and hornet is a type of wasp.

[mint stratus]

Correction from fact checking myself a few more wasp species do but are less well known

[slow locust]

idk what's a wasp and what's a hornet cus they don't live near me so

[molten python]

Same, just researched a bit.

[cloud mesa]

given that the vespa and hornet name connection was intentional, it’s pretty safe to say hornet was named after vespa in canon

[fathom hill]

I saw someone say that the reason Hornet is named that its cuz she is a not bee in a bee nest, since hornets and wasps look like bees but arent implying her being different from the hive

Could also be that bees just see wasps as particularly strong since yknow natural predator so maybe that's why vespa has that name?

Maybe its a warrior name idk

[stuck berry]

what would hornet be called if herrah were able to raise her

[fathom hill]

spider

tarantula idk

[stuck berry]

they're all spiders

[mint stratus]

Maybe in the world of hollow knight bees and wasps are seen as interchangeable in a species sense?

[molten python]

I don't think there's any in-universe lore reason for Hornet being named after a wasp. First one doesn't make sense because the queen bee is also named after a wasp, is she an outsider? As for the second, we have not seen evidence of any wasps existing near Hallownest, and the bees themselves are one of the strongest tribes.

[stuck berry]

your mother didn't call you humie

[vestal swan]

Hephaestus or whoever made the weapons

Hornet is a crazy little inventor with a diabolical mind

[molten python]

I think Team Cherry just named them after wasps because they felt like it, no big in-universe lore reason.

[fathom hill]

I mean of course I'm just sharing headcanon here

thats all im good for

[fathom hill]

i mean she named me with the exact name of my dad so could Hornet have been named herrah

Human name things don't follow on bug world

[stuck berry]

pkhornetname theory

[vestal swan]

Silkvyrm

[mint stratus]

The pale king would be the guy to name his kid the full latin name

Or buzzsaw

[stuck berry]

didn't know they had latin in the hkverse

[fathom hill]

The pale king wouldn't have named her, he didn't spent that much time with her

[mint stratus]

Zote said so in the secret 58th precept

[hazy meadow]

hi bistec! hi poop hour
glad to see you two again

[fathom hill]

hey dork

[stuck berry]

whatup dork

[fathom hill]

he put an exclamation after my name but not yours whys that maybe cuz im nicer

[stuck berry]

why don't i get an exclamation mark

does he hate me

[vestal swan]

Poop hour

[fathom hill]

Hes not excited to see you but me yes

[vestal swan]

Self-explanatory

[hazy meadow]

still taking notes for my ss analysis

[fathom hill]

whens that due?

[mint stratus]

This will be on the test

Now back to my theory on how Zote is actually the reincarnated pale king

Evidence 1. I think it’d be super funny

[fathom hill]

important stuff I hear you

[molten python]

The Pale King would be the type of guy to call his child THK.

[muted lantern]

you get a question mark. poop hour?

pray you do not recieve a semicolon

[hazy meadow]

in 3 weeks

[hazy meadow]

do you want me to scream poop hour to the chat

[molten python]

Sorry but that can't be true since we see Zote meeting the Pale King.

[mint stratus]

Maybe the pale king gave hornets the name
“The Gendered Child”

[fathom hill]

canon name great

[hazy meadow]

sorry can i just say hornet is so badass

[fathom hill]

yes

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-silksong-dance-hornet-dance-hornet-silksong-gif-3654151901745923854

[fathom hill]

she is

Hornet is so nice and great and cool i like her a lot

[stuck berry]

if you're gonna scream bistec why not

[hazy meadow]

"but always, child, i remain a daughter of hallownest. and the void bellow all things, that darkness i will fear no longer..."

hornet would square up with the void fr

[silent quiver]

I wonder how's Hallownest doing

[mint stratus]

Very dead

[stuck berry]

shoutout to characters who are undeniably badass and their softer side does not undermine that badassery

[molten python]

Hallownest stopped doing anything centuries ago.

[fathom hill]

dirt and stone

[muted lantern]

how do yall think hornet feels about hallownest?

[mint stratus]

ROCK AND STONE

[fathom hill]

Though probably the mantises could still be there and the shroom guys thing

[stuck berry]

nostalgic and sad

[hazy meadow]

saddened likely

[muted lantern]

she seems pretty bitter about her duty

[hazy meadow]

"ive already stood sentinel for one dying land. that role... i will never play again"

[fathom hill]

she does

[molten python]

But you know who has a badder ass?

[hazy meadow]

she is

maming you

[muted lantern]

i think she has really complicated feelings about hallownest, I don't really think it's felt like a home for a long time

[silent quiver]

I don't think 100% of the population of Hallownest dies by the end of Hollow Knight. Though idk if the Godhome ending is canon.
But in that case then Hornet fought THK?

[hazy meadow]

also, what the heck is going on with the void???????

[stuck berry]

you'd be pissed about cleaning your room but sad about having to leave it no

[hazy meadow]

how is lace speaking to us down there

[fathom hill]

probably

[silent quiver]

She's also apparently losing memories

[mint stratus]

They definitely squared up but idk if they faught

[muted lantern]

how so?

[stuck berry]

hornet is undergoing hallucinations

[fathom hill]

astro projecting seems popular with the ladies nowadays

[hazy meadow]

two very different answers

anyone else wanna take a crack at it?

[fathom hill]

I believe it's some magic silk being soul thing but idk nothing like that happens again nor before

[molten python]

My answer got deleted 😔

[fathom hill]

Do we can only speculate, also Hornet doesn't like question it or snything

[mint stratus]

I mean lace is fully silk instead of shell so who knows

[fathom hill]

You said bad word

[molten python]

I said the same thing as the poop hour! but with different wording.

[mint stratus]

Honorable sacrifice

[fathom hill]

I think I now what word you used

I got muted cuz of bypassing it lmao

[silent quiver]

Hornet mentions something about it, ||but also the Red memory implies she can't remember a few things like how Herra really looked like||

[muted lantern]

idk if hallownest has felt like home to hornet for some time, i think watching that place die an agonizing death makes it not really a place she would want to be anymore

[fathom hill]

That could be an explanation, her silken soul just kind of got up there or soemthing

A magician did it

[silent quiver]

I don't think she forgot the events of THK but she probably has forgotten part of her childhood. She's very old after all

[hazy meadow]

this

herrah's face is literally blurry cause her memory is so faded

to live such a long time, you are bound to forget faces, even that of your mother who you likely stood guard over for centuries

[fathom hill]

Also like a lot of stuff that she doesn't condone anymore happened there, she is clearly remorseful for staying sentinel, could it be that she found it pointless in the end?

[mint stratus]

A theory I have is she can strum her silk to have the sound project her at that level/using the void for a similar purpose

[fathom hill]

Since again she killed so many for protecting whats just dust

[stuck berry]

i like that we don't know how much time has passed between games but at the same time I'd lkke to know

[silent quiver]

She can't remember Herra or White Lady well. The only one she seems to remember well is the Bee (forgot her name. Vespa?)

[vague timber]

do y'all think the grimm troupe will arrive in pharloom?

[fathom hill]

clearly a lot, she sound and acts quite different since hk

[silent quiver]

Nah

[stuck berry]

no the grimm troupe only arrives in dead kingdoms

[fathom hill]

But yeah generations wise they could have specified

[fathom hill]

shame

[mint stratus]

She seems to find it honorable, but not accomplishing anything in the grand scheme of things

[vague timber]

see this is what i was telling my friend

the troupe only come to hallownest after it's almost dead and buried
pharloom still functions, to an extent

[stuck berry]

ask her if by the time hornet calms the void pahrloom seems dead

[mint stratus]

Yeah but Trobbios mere stage presence should also be capable of summoning them

[hazy meadow]

hey chat

[stuck berry]

even then come the true ending the haunting is no more and they're on the road to recovery

[hazy meadow]

can i ask what y'alls take on lace and gms's relationship is???

its clear lace wants her mother's approval, her acknowledgement
and yet gms seems to love her so dearly, risking everything to save her

[fathom hill]

If anything it's implied to be healing now given the verdania and choral tyrant guy stuff

[stuck berry]

gms holds lace to high regard being the only child that comes anywhere close to the weavers, lace doesn't like her and the way she makes lace carry out her will and not much else

[mint stratus]

Infantilizing your grown daughter you made to be an eternal artificial child but also being neglectful while simultaneously a helicopter parent

[stuck berry]

didn't know gms was my mother

[hazy meadow]

yet lace wants her to acknowledge her, seen in needolin dialogue

[silent quiver]

Man, logistically, how would Pharloom work after ss? Assuming Act 3 ending? Who's going to rule? Sherma?

[vague timber]

she's a daughter woven to fill her desires for children
however, instead of focusing on lace, grandmother silk is fixated on her firstborn, the weavers
instead of being acknowledged, she's used as a tool to bring hornet to her

[fathom hill]

Always struck me as those parents that were neglectful all your life but when an accident happens suddenly they are all about how much they love you

She may love Lace but pale beings are obssesive, she could have obsessed so much on her own revenge against the weavers that she just put her aside independent on how much she loved her

[vague timber]

socialist democracy, duh

[stuck berry]

maybe she feels gms doesn't appreciate her as daughter and more as a tool (to get her old kids back maybe)

[mint stratus]

She also seemed to drop phantom for being a failure

[fathom hill]

don't think do since Lace isn't the one to get the weavers, the bells guys are

[vague timber]

wrong channel

lol

[hazy meadow]

"why her... mother
see me cut! see me serve!
a child, too broken...
i will not fade! i will not take!
see me, your knight...
see me, your daughter..."

[fathom hill]

Lace is kind of just there without a purpose, looking like a pretty daughter for her

[stuck berry]

from what i gathered she carried out her mother's will but how exactly

[fathom hill]

Yah

[zinc pivot]

I think pharloom as an entirety will revive
But the citadel is definitely done for

[regal crow]

Whys the crests trophy called Consumed?

[zinc pivot]

All higher ups are dead, architects gone, and only one vaultkeeper remained

[hazy meadow]

lace clearly holds resentment of some kind

[regal crow]

Got a vendetta and the whole world burned for her revenge

[mint stratus]

That reminds me, do y’all think the glow from pale beings comes from a massive amount of soul within their shell?

[stuck berry]

every time you get a new crest it says "consumed the crest of x"

[fathom hill]

GMS is neglectful to Lace outside of Lace's own dependance of her. But children want to be loved by their parents, that one she cannot help either

[hazy meadow]

"letting you live was my rebellion, spider. i've denied my mother your silken strength. i've won"

[zinc pivot]

Because hornet consumed all the new powers available in pharloom

[fathom hill]

lol you think?

[vague timber]

you know, pharloom's not even really dying in-game if you think about it

[zinc pivot]

This could be the true reason weavers betrayed gms
She called them daughters but only see them as her subjects

[fathom hill]

She's resentful af she didn't care if the world fell apart if it meant her mother would suffer

[vague timber]

the silken curse is in place from pharloom's monarch, not some outside force

[fathom hill]

Could be, didn't gms made the weavers for the pale instinct of devotion anyways?

But the weavers on themselves were a pretty bad bunch so im not sure

[regal crow]

Yeah, cuz being a mindless murderous slave to a higher being is so great a future. Then again, the world was already like that 0.o in the end did anything REALLY change or we just made a giant circle?

[vague timber]

it's not a good future

but the kingdom is still functioning

[mint stratus]

Do y’all think the glow from pale beings comes from a massive amount of soul within their shell?

[stuck berry]

just like the usa

[fathom hill]

Citadel can't be maintained like that

[stuck berry]

we heard you the first time

[mint stratus]

Oh okay, thought it got lost in the discussion

[zinc pivot]

I mean the other parts of Pharloom

[stuck berry]

and i don't see any relation personally

[fathom hill]

umm I actually didn't 🤓

[zinc pivot]

Citadel is a dead dream

[stuck berry]

ermmmmmm your fault

[fathom hill]

yah yah I'm agreeing with u thats all

[hazy meadow]

the citadel has always been dead

[fathom hill]

ummm actually its not "hear" since its text messages 🤓

[brisk plaza]

hi siso lore chat, quick question but is there any more info surrounding the ||witch crest ending||? i know alot of people are saying greyroot is related to the white lady which i haven't seen any super strong arguments for, but im just curious since im trying to complete the ending

[mint stratus]

I mean binding gms gives you a crazy spool meter, the kingsoul gives infinite tiny amount of soul, pale beings like hornet and ghost have been shown to utilize soul effortlessly,
soul is white and shining

[fathom hill]

Could be

[hazy meadow]

i think they are of similar species but not the same thing

greyroot is specifically grey while the white lady is. well. white
they might both be of root but the white lady is a pale higher being where greyroot may just be a root

[fathom hill]

Both are parallels and opposites since white lady's instinct to breed and populate and bring life while the others a parasitic force

that's abt it

[zinc pivot]

Zote could be a knocked up knight with a parasite

[stuck berry]

WL is confirmed a "root" like a greyroot, white and grey, wk creates life while greyroot's parasite hijacks it, the parallels are clar

[mint stratus]

Awful theory 10/10 🔥

[hazy meadow]

horrific

[fathom hill]

I can believe it

[stuck berry]

no no cook

[zealous heath]

Is the third encounter with the first boss (idk the English name) just for funsies?

[stuck berry]

yeah

[zinc pivot]

Moss Mother?
Yeah its just to signify void spreading

[hazy meadow]

moss mom

[zealous heath]

Damn, not even for the hunter diary lol

[fathom hill]

you would guess id be clear by the cinematic and the void masses but whatever

[hazy meadow]

i have to wonder: did the moss just. exist.
cause we have the mosskin of greenpath, made by unn

[fathom hill]

ñaca ñaca

[zealous heath]

I like to think that WL is what happens when the cursed child consumes a pale being

[stuck berry]

we have the mantis green prince who is a distinct entity from the mantis village in hallownest

different subspecies of the same thing

[brisk plaza]

ive heard that as well!! especially the greyroot is a cutting of the white lady theory

do we know anything about how the twisted bundle (?) got to where it was in bilewater? after going back to greyroot after getting infected she turned fully to root, so is it presumed upon that whatever was watching the root/in its vicinity was consumed to sustain it?

[fathom hill]

Do we know if the green prince is a mantis and not a grasshopper?

[brisk plaza]

i actually really like this theory and believe it overlaps with the greyroot is a cutting of the white lady theory!!

[stuck berry]

uhhh monkey finger in mouth png

[timber pond]

They Share Similar attributes In thier Roots and thier eyes. Possibly Kind of like how there was a "BlackWyrm" at somepoint.

[fathom hill]

grasshopper would make more sense no

[brisk plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-thinking-monkey-thinking-think-money-gif-9734025314392564509

[hazy meadow]

makes me wonder if there are other moths

[fathom hill]

there should be but I wonder if the radiance was a hallownest only phenomena

[stuck berry]

maybe, we know rad made those moths but surely not every moth to ever live

[fathom hill]

Imagine if you spend all your life worshipping this god and suddenly one day the god ain't there

[brisk plaza]

it moresoreminds me of the moth tribe and then the radiance being her own moth... thing. like obviously there's some overlap but they're completely different, it's hard to put into words but i think there's something slightly similar with greyroot

[fathom hill]

Terrifying for any moth tribe outside hallownest

[hazy meadow]

i think it was

[mint stratus]

We’ve seen multiple mantid species so I can see it being possible!

[zealous heath]

It just makes sense to me, like we know that the root can consume powerful beings (Hornet is half pale being) so isn't too crazy to think that a pale being was infected/offered their body to nourish the cursed baby

[hazy meadow]

what do you think hornet was thinking when getting the cursed child ending

[brisk plaza]

speaking of drags this back down, is there anything thar describes how the evil root baby was made

[fathom hill]

pregen

[hazy meadow]

like: yeah let me fight GMS nerfed

[stuck berry]

ah fuckkkk should've gotten this thing out of me when i got the chance

[zealous heath]

"Oh fuck, I should have gotten that abortion"

[hazy meadow]

lMAO

like, why would she go in there, nerfed af, to fight a god

[stuck berry]

i do like that this game avoids the "player is canonically a higher thing controlling the main character" but it creates a funny dissonance in hornet's decisions she fr had no reason to do half of that

[mint stratus]

Maybe if I ascend I can remove the football fetus

[hazy meadow]

this feels like that one comment under the TAS vid

[fathom hill]

How would an interaction between the bell hermit and styx go

would he call styx a slave and he would be like yah

[stuck berry]

not even she fully gets why she freed the green prince and if you kill karmelita after the ritual she tells gilly "uhh cause i could i guess????"

[hazy meadow]

"this is canon hornet silksong"

[brisk plaza]

maybe getting fanfic-y with this but assuming you/she never found yarnaby, it's an interesting thought that her desperation to get rid of of the parasite in her shell (possibly by escaping pharloom and going back to hollownest) overrode her wishes to Save Pharloom. it's extremely obvious just by her idle that its affecting her physically and the idea of a parasite affecting her psychologically as well to do things she normally wouldn't/by flawed logic subconsciously is so fascinating to me

[molten python]

Depends on whether or not the Bell Hermit is stronger than Styx.

[brisk plaza]

that is a far reach though there's nothing to really imply what i just said DHDKDKSO

[zealous heath]

I mean, she had to fight god no matter what and I guess that if she didn't know how to fix herself then she would go: yeah fuck this, I don't have any other option

[fathom hill]

Like she says she does everything for s reason and yet does the grey quest without questioning herself lmao

[hazy meadow]

"ooooh i'm getting this strange urge to go beat seth's high scores on the minigames oooh"

[fathom hill]

Even if she really does not know if shell ever get anything outta it even if the girl is shady af

[hazy meadow]

i do think hornet is competetive af and would really beat seth's highscores

[fathom hill]

Other reason that hornets just weak for womens will

[stuck berry]

i can't believe chara would make hornet do allat 💔

[hazy meadow]

like when she meets lottie (ladybug) and hears theres a reward in it for her and shes like: "bet."

[brisk plaza]

this, especially with the ladybugs? the fucking gambling on blasted steps? if there's a prize involved she's going all-in it's so funny 😭

[zealous heath]

Tbf Hornet changes through the game and starts caring for the people of Pharloom

So she's just chilling with his friend

[stuck berry]

she had no way of knowing swift would give her a mask shard she raced for the love of the game

[mint stratus]

If you get really good at beating it first try you basically rob them 👍

[fathom hill]

the world is falling apart but I'm sure this is necessary to saving pharloom

[molten python]

She was just looking for excuses. She would've eventually participated in the Flea Minigames even if there was no reward.

[hazy meadow]

she hears theres a prize and her eyes light up like that like. woke spartan meme

[fathom hill]

I do believe this

[zealous heath]

Canon

[hazy meadow]

just. blinding light from her eyes. "i heard prize."

[median monolith]

Craz theiry

Honert

Is Shaw 🤯 🤯 🤯

[hazy meadow]

do you think lace would do the flea minigames and challenge hornet to beat her high scores

[zealous heath]

I hate that you can attack the snail shaman shells but you can't break them

[hazy meadow]

and it would be this constant back and forth

[zealous heath]

Yeah but she would fail miserably

[stuck berry]

play my games
no fleas
needle upgrade
yes fleas

[fathom hill]

she would try and never beat the first highscore by the fleas

[mint stratus]

I wanna come back to hit them later

[hazy meadow]

i imagine lace could beat the high scores

she seems the type

[fathom hill]

lace it's the one to say the game's rigged

[hazy meadow]

but she'd lose at chess against hornet

[fathom hill]

which honestly for dodge it kind of is

[brisk plaza]

this, but also i think hornet doing little things show that despite how long she's lived she's still mortal. even with the bellhouse i think she first denies it for like. obvious reasons until pushed, and then after that she makes the bellhome her home. on a more serious note it's these little things and these small letting down of her defenses that tie her to the bugs of pharloom. by undertaking the pilgrimage and having her own bellhome and playing with the fleas she's becoming more attached to the people here and i think it's really charming how her true personality shines through

[median monolith]

Big chess

[hazy meadow]

and also how she loves the fleas so much, fluffy things

[median monolith]

*bug

[hazy meadow]

imagine lace going on a long monologue and then hornet interupts her like "checkmate"

[brisk plaza]

ITS NOT EVEN TJE FLEAS ITS THE LITTLE BLACK BELL FLUFF THINGS AND SHE GETS SO SAD THAT SHE CANT PET THEM IN THE NOURNAL

[timber pond]

Bro had no idea #hk-discussion message

[stuck berry]

light L type shit

[zealous heath]

Btw, does anyone understand the tablets at the Shamans temple?

[hazy meadow]

cue lace screaming "WHAT" and frantically looking over the board

[fathom hill]

I do like it a lot too

[mint stratus]

It’s so funny to me that she’s constantly on guard on benches but then leaves her door open while passed out on her bed

[brisk plaza]

OH MY GOD?

[fathom hill]

Lmao yeah

[median monolith]

Why does hornet not say Shaw and adido

[hazy meadow]

also not hornet being so happy she didnt have to kill the big flea

she would hug that thing.

[stuck berry]

did the knight ever have something adjacent to a home or base of operations because if not hornet is the only one of the three with a proper house

[zealous heath]

She stops questioning Sherman's pilgrimage and just accepts that is what he wants to do

Which pretty sweet tbh

[fathom hill]

apparently these were taunts or insults or something? She apparently more mature now

[molten python]

What is there to understand? They are recipes.

[stuck berry]

racial slurs

[hazy meadow]

dirtmouth technically

[fathom hill]

But gameplay wise it was cuz maybe it could have been too annoying

[timber pond]

I gave team cherry the idea guys 😎 #hk-discussion message

[median monolith]

More mature, yet there's a taunt feature in game 😔

[stuck berry]

i guess but i mean i wouldn't call it like that

[hazy meadow]

i do enjoy that like. they reuse some of her sprites (taunt)

[stuck berry]

maybe if that mean bitch elderbug let them have a house

[hazy meadow]

and obvs her thread storm ability

[fathom hill]

Garama it's more of a come at me phrase I think lol

[hazy meadow]

GARAMA!

[median monolith]

Garma

[zealous heath]

They're just random recipes?

[fathom hill]

Also I'm sure some bilewater guys say shaw, so shaw could be like outsider or something?

[hazy meadow]

ALSO CAN SOMEONE BEAT ME OVER THE HEAD PLEASE

[zealous heath]

CHALAMET

[median monolith]

It'd be cool if lace said them instead considering how immature she is

[hazy meadow]

okay, let me explain

[fathom hill]

oh yeah idk what timothee chalamet doing in this game

[stuck berry]

dinero

[zealous heath]

Not a proper house but dirthmouth is kind of home base

[hazy meadow]

ON MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH. AFTER I BEAT LACE 2. I FULLY THOUGHT SHE WAS LIKE. BEING PUPPETED BY THE SILK GOD (i didnt know she was GMS daugher or of GMS)

[fathom hill]

that would be funny

[hazy meadow]

like, that little line after you beat her "you finally see the truth of my shell"

and i was like "OH HELL NAW WERE YOU A CONSTRUCT THIS WHOLE TIME. A TEST??"

[hazy meadow]

and then no its shown shes her own being

[stuck berry]

let me just say i like how they make you care about lace throughout the game

[zealous heath]

Do you guys think DLCs would be after the game's ending? I think it makes sense since Silksong has a better defined narrative than HK

[fathom hill]

Funnily enough it's implied Hornet came to that conclusion way before the reveal

Shes has seen this before

[median monolith]

I'd say there mid game and add more endings like the original HK

[hazy meadow]

nO OKAY LISTEN

I TOOK IT THE WRONG WAY

[molten python]

DLCs would probably just be additional content that can be played mid-game and don't affect the main narrative.

[mint stratus]

I care about her but also wanna punch her it’s perfect character design

[fathom hill]

Lace is great

[zealous heath]

I don't know if I would like more endings if I'm being honest

[hazy meadow]

bistec let me elaborate

[fathom hill]

If there's 0 lace fans I'm dead

[fathom hill]

ok sorry

[molten python]

I mean Lace is made of Silk and Hornet has Silk powers so makes sense she can sense it.

[zealous heath]

You don't think they can change the formula that they used in HK?

[hazy meadow]

i thought lace wasn't a person.
i thought she was nothing but a puppet for the silk to challenge hornet with to prove her strength

[brisk plaza]

if we get more root lore id be incredibly happy but no yeah the endings seem pretty well rounded

[median monolith]

So wait. What the fuck is phantom? I don't actually understand that someone dumb it down for me

[hazy meadow]

like a hivemind trying to mimic being a person

[mint stratus]

In the same way thk is a hollow vessel

[stuck berry]

i dgaf at deep docks since her boss was so easy and none of her taunts made me get invested, come the citadel and cradle I'm like okay you got some depth and then lace 2 turns out to be one of my favorite fights in the game period. more development on her nature and relationship with gms she's probably top 3 most developed characters in this series and beating her as the true final boss fight felt cathartic

[zealous heath]

She's like Lace, a construct made of silk

[hazy meadow]

not quite? THK has his own consience

[fathom hill]

Phantom is the same creation as Lace, they were made sisters but phantom was abandoned in the organ to die

[supple glacier]

GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT
I HAVE LORE THEORY
WHAT IF HORNET IS ACTUALLY A FEMBOY

[fathom hill]

As to why this is, it's not clear yet

[median monolith]

hornet is a woman?

[fathom hill]

I hear you

[mint stratus]

That’s what I mean, she ain’t a false life even if she’s assumed to be

[timber pond]

Whoa #hk-discussion message holly shit i forgot i did this

[hazy meadow]

i imagined lace was nothing but a false person, a mimic, a mannequin being puppeted by threads (the silk)

[stuck berry]

is named madam and miss by multiple characters and she does nothing to correct them

[supple glacier]

hornet is a FEMBOY

[hazy meadow]

yeah but she has consience, she makes her own decisions

i fully thought. on my first playthrough. that lace wasn't her own person

[stuck berry]

if you want a feminine man to be attracted to trobbio is right there

[hazy meadow]

TROBBIOOOOOOO

[median monolith]

I hope we get a DLC where we can go to and meet shakras village

[hazy meadow]

i love that zesty thespian

[fathom hill]

I can see that

[zealous heath]

THK also has consciousness, that what made him a bad vessel for Radiance

[mint stratus]

TROBBIOO SCSAA

[fathom hill]

I think for me the reveal was that Lace's actions weren't even instructed by gms at all

[hazy meadow]

yeah thats what did it for me in the 3rd act

[stuck berry]

shakra can't return because in her land it's tabboo to peave so it'd have to be without her

[fathom hill]

Like Lace wasn't told to retrieve Hornet or anything she kind of just decided that

[hazy meadow]

i was like "WAIT. YOU'RE. DOING THIS BECAUSE YOU CAN. HOLY SHIT YOU HAVE FREE WILL."

[supple glacier]

Maybe hornet is a femboy attracted to womans thats why she decline every man we see in game

[hazy meadow]

hELP

[fathom hill]

i mean women can like women too

[mint stratus]

In it for the love of the game

[stuck berry]

and the fact she might've freed hornet to begin with

[supple glacier]

I know

[supple glacier]

But im talking about hornet being femboy

[stuck berry]

the only man she really declines is kratt no? because he sucks

[supple glacier]

Dont ruin my dreams

[fathom hill]

Yah. Like did she maybe free her to kill her herself, to prove herslef and be noticed by gms?

[stuck berry]

i like both of these ideas

[fathom hill]

Ok I hear you, but why should i believe she is a femboy and not woman?

[mint stratus]

Hornet killed the clover dancers because she’s against mlm’s but misunderstood which acronym was which

[supple glacier]

Because i said that😡

[fathom hill]

Thank you

[stuck berry]

i don't think n from murder dulls would say any of this to be honest

[timber pond]

My old email Response from William i think

[fathom hill]

Yah but like arguments idk

[supple glacier]

HORNET IS WILLIAM AFTON

[fathom hill]

I'm not judging btw I'm just curious

[stuck berry]

they're shitposting

[supple glacier]

Joke i think

[stuck berry]

it's a joke because she can be racist in the game

[mint stratus]

A joke, hornet used it as a sound while doing attacks

[stuck berry]

she hates the flies with a passion and the entries are the same regardless of if they capture you which if they didn't just makes her look incredibly fly-racist

[fathom hill]

Apparently a lot of people repeat that these are insults and shes trashtalking her opponents and that tc said that but havent found source on that so who knows

[supple glacier]

Im primal aspid racist

[stuck berry]

lost lace is a.... shaw?!?

[stuck berry]

there are worse enemies

[hazy meadow]

also

[supple glacier]

Broken vessel easier than primal aspid without even joking now

[manic pewter]

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN #sk-lore

[hazy meadow]

can i just say how much i adore that lace insists on calling hornet "little spider" and the 12 variants

[stuck berry]

racism discussion

[fathom hill]

talking

[mint stratus]

Don’t worry about it

[supple glacier]

Hornet is a femboy ver of william afton

[stuck berry]

no one is saying this

[fathom hill]

like cuz both kill kids or

[manic pewter]

average murder drones fan

[fathom hill]

I mean hornets past that I think

[timber pond]

?

[fathom hill]

I'm sure she is remorseful of it

[median monolith]

Is nuu actually a child? Or is nuu an ancient being who is looking for a worthy opponent in hornet

[manic pewter]

nuu is 100% a kid in my mind

[fathom hill]

nuu is a kid

[supple glacier]

HE IS A CHILD AND HORNET IS AFTON

[median monolith]

Shut UP

[supple glacier]

FR I HATE BEING IN THIS FANDOM

[orchid whale]

But what if Nuu is an unreliable narrator?

[mint stratus]

Impossible.. the sacred texts

[fathom hill]

in what sense

[median monolith]

I wonder what sherma and nuu would do if they met

[manic pewter]

what is silksong is actually from what nuu is imagining is happening when hornet goes out to fill the hunters journal

[stuck berry]

nuu wouldn't like him because he's weak

[manic pewter]

wtf evil kinger in silksong chat

[hazy meadow]

HOW MANY NICKNAMES DO PEOPLE HAVE FOR HORNET THIS IS RIDICULOUS

[stuck berry]

house md could be peak i haven't seen it

[median monolith]

Yeah I thought so, but hes still pretty powerful, remember when he opened that giant gate at the start of the game with his song?

[fathom hill]

dgital circus and murder drones fan? nahh pick a struggle

[stuck berry]

your pfp is a dictator and ergo problematic

[mint stratus]

They’re like right next to each other on the youtube channel shelf

[stuck berry]

change it before i summon my moderator team

[hazy meadow]

do you think. the fleas exist elsewhere

[median monolith]

I really like your username btw the poop hour

[fathom hill]

imagine being a hollow knight fan

[mint stratus]

Mods, seize him

[stuck berry]

look at him

[median monolith]

What if grubs are baby fleas who haven't gone thru flea puberty

[stuck berry]

he's killing innocents as we speak

[manic pewter]

but its an evil chess piece

[fathom hill]

no

[mint stratus]

Guys we’ve strayed too far from lore

[orchid whale]

Please, mountains can have two peaks.

[stuck berry]

what creature would you want as a grub/flea equivalent for hollow knight 3

[fathom hill]

Huhhh quick take any of the same 5 topics we talk abt every day

[manic pewter]

i mean we know that grubs grow into grubberflies so by that logic grubs are the larval stage so i think unlikely

[fathom hill]

[slow locust]

same same

[manic pewter]

I replied to the wrong message

[mint stratus]

Uhh which of the 57 precepts is your favorite?

[orchid whale]

36 duh

[stuck berry]

mothers will always betray you (greyroot)

[fathom hill]

33 show the enemy no respect

Cuz I'm cool like that

[median monolith]

Hmmm probably a craw like creature, I really like the draws designs

[stuck berry]

birds could work

[fathom hill]

Precept 50 - Don't linger on mysteries

Guys lore channel is no more

[slow locust]

this is #sk-lore yall 😭

[manic pewter]

not anymore

[stuck berry]

does silksong have a joke character on this caliber

[median monolith]

Who would you play as in HK3? it'd be cool if you played as shakra as she abandons her village

[fathom hill]

Grindle

[slow locust]

@mighty zealot 🙏

[manic pewter]

i saw someone say a seth game would be cool

[stuck berry]

he's not that funny

[mighty zealot]

what is it

[fathom hill]

ladies love him ive heard

[stuck berry]

the hollow knight or second sentinel

[stuck berry]

yo wassup gwnj

[slow locust]

memes and shit here

[manic pewter]

BRO REPORTED US TO THE MODS NO WAY

[mighty zealot]

ping <@&283547423706447872> role next time, not just me pls

[median monolith]

Im sorry twin 😔

[hazy meadow]

HEY OD YOU GUYS THINK LACE AND HORNET LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER /j

[fathom hill]

lmao what a joke

[manic pewter]

YES THEY MAKE OUT

[slow locust]

👍 I thought it would be too much to ping everyone

[fathom hill]

yea!

[mighty zealot]

also

[hazy meadow]

ok but seriously, im so curious what happens after act 3

[manic pewter]

ascend with gorb

[stuck berry]

lace dies due to silk deficiency