sk-lore

[lucid dirge]

zoterooter lore

[stuck berry]

should i put zote and shellwood lower since that's speculation with basis

[timber pond]

We cant enter dreams in silksong, only memories

[lucid dirge]

LOL talk about good timing

im honestly glad they changed it

[timber pond]

yes

[lethal burrow]

do you guys think the mysterious platform counts

[quiet briar]

[lucid dirge]

i feel like judges being corrupt and unfair fits a lot more for the capital

[limber anvil]

The bells used to have bindings on them. Probably a weakening spell like the ones on the pure vessels chains

[lethal burrow]

they don't stop you if you hurt people only if you kill them...

It would have fit with the citadel, death is a sin, you're not allowed to, a bug who service must never die, etc

[lucid dirge]

sherma being the only one they literally didnt have any issue with so they HAD to let him in

[limber anvil]

My guess is the weavers and daughters betrayals drove GMs mad in the original plans but that got changed to her being asleep since the citidel was made...

[stuck berry]

@foggy fractal you got any critiques on this

[limber anvil]

There 4 cut areas... and 15 enemies

Known

Plus several npcs

[tacit lake]

how to get ||palenails?||

[stuck berry]

can you give me names because it feels incomplete if i merely say the number of enemies

[limber anvil]

Check the cut content section of the wiki

[foggy fractal]

go bacck to the cradle and bound GMS's arm

[lucid dirge]

i mean good point but idk

[limber anvil]

Many have no recorded names

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cut_Content_(Silksong) here

[tacit lake]

im not missing any silk skill ||yay||

[limber anvil]

I have been adding stuff I know to it...

Catacombs lifeblood spire and songeater layer are 3 cut areas from the 2017 concept map

Never implemented

[foggy fractal]

theres also this cut atlas for a memory section seemingly, with one of them being Widow getting her face chopped in half @stuck berry

[stuck berry]

filing that under "cut widow mutilation sprites"

[foggy fractal]

there's also cut assets and dilaogue for a spider caravan/fast travel apparently ?

also Hunter's Memento has the hunter's mark on it, suggesting it is a tradition/culture more wide spread than we thought before

also memorium assets has a enemy not seen in game seemingly belonging to the pharloom bay

ok I think that covers everything I know ? there's cut sprites here or there but nothing significant enough

[limber anvil]

Oh people found more content for pharloom bay... honestly I'm expecting it to be dlc

[stuck berry]

i'm rerouting this to a new iceberg maker tool since this one only has 7 and i feel i can reorganize this better

[languid vigil]

I feel like getting to play in hallownest as hornet would be so cool but thats too much for just a dlc

[limber anvil]

Pharloom bay maybe got cut due to scope creep for an area dlc possibly lifeblood spire and city of steel

[flint wadi]

i think it can be titled "hunter culture" or something

[foggy fractal]

yep

[flint wadi]

also jesus christ

[foggy fractal]

even though its cut it lines up well with what we know about Widow, with her mask getting forcefully removed

[tacit lake]

yay

[limber anvil]

Also ringing the first bell is implied to have awakened gms

[flint wadi]

oh yeah absolutely
i feel like a lot of cut lore bits are cut moreso for the reason of tc not finding an appropriate place them in the game

[timber pond]

Guys... The stomping mirriors the ending (in my Head) 😭 https://youtu.be/j873sMpA16Q https://www.youtube.com/shorts/10MR6aY1TVs?feature=share

[flint wadi]

she only awakes when hornet challenges her at the cradle

[limber anvil]

Yeah... meanwhile pharloom bay u feel simply got cut due to scope creep

[limber anvil]

Im saying originally

Based upon the bell achivment name

[flint wadi]

it could be an old plotpoint though
songs and sound (and bells) had much more prevelance indev

[limber anvil]

Yup

[flint wadi]

yeah

[lethal burrow]

can't you beat the game without ringing it?

[limber anvil]

Pharloom bay may come back as Dlc since the overview map still remains... next to bilewater... despite being cut before its addition being moved... above verdania

[limber anvil]

Cut content anyway

[foggy fractal]

oh btw not sure if you have put all the cradle cages dialogue on it
the ones mentioning Blackbarrens, Sandsea Waste and of course City of Steel

[flint wadi]

could be that the bell shrine check before last judge extended for the whole game

and maybe was mandatory

idk its really up to interpretation

[limber anvil]

Implied the bells used to relate to GMs and not the judges.

They used to have seals on them

[limber anvil]

More likely going through phantoom gave strung to serve

[stuck berry]

this iceberg maker cuts off at layer 8 and it pisses me off

[flint wadi]

man thats a fun idea actually

[foggy fractal]

ts pmo !!!!!!

[limber anvil]

My guess is they felt the idea of winning the fight but loosing the ending cutscene TC felt like was a cheap way to end it

[gleaming breach]

in the FS cutscene after beating - whats the scene of all the weavers playing harps supposed to mean

[flint wadi]

strung to serve really doesnt seem to have a good placement in the game

[foggy fractal]

isn't that Widow's cutscene instead

[limber anvil]

Outside loosing in steel soul against her I agree

[gleaming breach]

oh yeah that one mb

[flint wadi]

its the widow cutscene

and we dont entirely know actually, its either weavers worshipping grandma silk or playing the song that lulled her into sleep

[flint wadi]

true i guess

though that would be one hell of an achievement requirement

[limber anvil]

Basically i just feel that beating GMS but loosing the cutscene didnt make sense

[weak copper]

The ants had a city?

[limber anvil]

Honestly it would fit best as a phase 3 new attack at like 10% or less hp

Basically a last ditch grab attack

[brisk finch]

You caught me right as I was logging off
Anyway, one of the easiest pieces of evidence I can point you to: if you look at the announcement trailer, one of the locations appears to be an ant city.

(I don't mind being replied to with a ping btw, just funny XD)

[weak copper]

Lol ok, thanks for the response! Just got curious on the cut content and decided to check here.

[brisk finch]

I love cut content 😄 Digging into the text and sprite dumps has been a joy. I can also recommend going through old TC blog posts+the kickstarter
And of course, that announcement trailer

(Bye lol)

[compact escarp]

Abit confused on first time entering abyss part. Why did Hornet want to go there? Is the lace she saw was her spirit?

[limber anvil]

Hunters march and farfields used to be an ant city basically.

[gleaming breach]

is the purity of weavers determined by something or is it just random when GMS uplifted them?

[limpid summit]

We don’t know if the Lace she sees is real really but she wanted to go there because she cared about Pharloom and it was partly her fault for letting the void loose

[foggy fractal]

CM : Oh ho... The quakes, yes? We have felt their force, even here. So the mother resists the dark... to save the child?
Hornet: That is my guess. I must descend to the void below, and see clear that truth for myself.

She went there to see for herself, as for the Lace thing no idea

[limber anvil]

Implied to be traces of lace... as she is a thread creature. Silk has soul so traces of laces soul

[compact escarp]

I thought gms was still in the cradle resisting being pull by the abyss but in fact both she and lace was aldy inside

[shell vessel]

Hold up, I swear we've seen these in hallownest dirtmouth/crystal peaks

[foggy fractal]

yeah GMS after the fight is in the void

same with Lace

[lime nova]

Large text dump about Nyleth lore incoming, prepare to deal with that

Upon doing more research into Nyleth, I'm fully confident in declaring her as a Higher Being

Nyleth is the only one of the three hearts to still be alive after the fight, with the "heart" being granted by the forest of Shellwood itself. To me this suggests that Nyleth has a level of power beyond that of a single bug, and that she can provide power on this scale without needing to die.

The phrase "distant reach... distant life" to me implies that all greenery or at least many far reaching greeneries in Pharloom are part of Nyleth's body or under her control. This is further supported by "we are life, we are growth, what world without us". To me this seems to suggest that any and all plant life in Pharloom, and possibly some bugs, are the body of Nyleth herself

I interpret the body of Nyleth to be a creation designed to commune with the bugs of Pharloom. A form in their image to better relate, similar to the Pale King's bug form

Nyleth being implied to literally be the forest has also led me to reconsider Unn and the White Lady. I believe that the Queen's Gardens is either the creation of, or body of the White Lady herself, and that the "border" of her and Unn's land is simply the area where one's plants end and the other's begins.

It's worth noting that the only areas of Pharloom to have "wood" are the part with Greyroot, and the part with her spawn. This may imply that the wood is Greyroot's creation. It's possible that Greyroot is another being equal to Nyleth, or possibly a creation of Nyleth's.

[shell vessel]

And interestingly enough, in one of these we also find soul along with a body, and the means to extract and contain it

Nyleth is Unn theory
-# Sans is Ness the sequel

[fathom pollen]

Is silksong lore, really just "pale being made a civilization", feels too simple compared to the vessel plan of hk

[compact escarp]

So after left the abyss hornet want to go inside her memory to get the white flower? But she needs extra help by ancient souls to lower the difficulty I assume?

[limber anvil]

Honestly I think she may be like UNn but has weakened so she can no longer interact or control the forest

[lime nova]

To note, all areas of Pharloom with plant life are seemingly connected, either directly by the game's map, or having a clear connection point outside of it (far fields being directly beneath bilewater)

[jovial trail]

Is Nyleth still alive after the fight? The other hearts also keep beating

[limber anvil]

My guess is she no longer is able to manifest anymore... basiclaly like unn

[lime nova]

No, me saying Nyleth is still alive is because the heart isn't taken from Nyleth by Hornet in the dream, and is instead offered as a pickup by the plants themselves, that do not die aftetwards

[foggy fractal]

CM : Ah! So you're asking another spell of us? To reveal the flower clear?... But to illuminate one of your kind's old memories, so acutely... This is no easy thing, even for us...
CM : Old One, you must give us a moment to confer...
CM : We could do it. The spell can be cast, with enough power, enormous power, equal maybe to that monarch...

they needed the hearts to cast the spell in the first place

[jovial trail]

Well Unn appears to give us the charm

[limber anvil]

She is alive but basically a force long past its time now one with the forest.

Unable to manifest or just dead

[jovial trail]

Ohhh yeah that’s an interesting detail

[lime nova]

Nyleth seems to be not nearly as conscious as before, being more of a force of nature, possibly due to there being less bugs to dream of and worship her

[shell vessel]

It's more of a "Pale being made a civilization, then got fucked by civilization, then civilization built a big shrine to show off how cool they were defeating the pale being and also murdered every single ecosystem along the way for the fun of it, then got fucked by pale being back and now the entire land is shit great job"

[jovial trail]

With Unn being 100% a higher being Nyleth also being one seems very reasonable

[silver spire]

wasn't nyleth kind of cooked by sister splinter showing up

[limber anvil]

Yeah

[foggy fractal]

so the events are Hornet finds the Snail Shamans, goes to the abyss, goes back to the Snail Shamans, gets the three hearts, goes into the memory and get the Everbloom and then she goes back to the abyss for the final time to fight Lost Lace

[lime nova]

Hm? I don't see how?

[limber anvil]

What do you mean?

[silver spire]

Children, children, hide and strike!
This land is ours, now!
By our claws, none but us now!
Sisters, sisters, so long gone!
Other, other, sleeping deep...
Creeping, creaking...

this is her needolin dialogue

[fallow rose]

sister splinter probably showed up after nyleth died im guessing?

[lime nova]

She's referring to the weavers having left Pharloom

[silver spire]

thats another possibility

[lime nova]

Nyleth isn't the owner of the land, she is the land

[silver spire]

it's much more likely that she claimed shellwood lol

[fathom pollen]

Thats a lot getting fucked, even compared to white lady and the vessel plan

[limber anvil]

She is either dead Or like isma one with the forest

[silver spire]

it literally says "this land is ours now"

[fallow rose]

because nyleth is said to have ensured safe passage to all who crossed shellwood, once she died, or at least her physical body died, she no longer can ensure that and so enemies like sister splinter can thrive

[limber anvil]

My guess is an isma version of unn

[silver spire]

yea i think splinter probably came in after nyleth got the isma treatment

i mean it makes much more sense thematically, considering her species looks like weeds

[limber anvil]

She says slumber...

[lethal burrow]

A cucumber

[lime nova]

"Sisters so long gone" is absolutely referring to the Weavers. "Other sleeping deep" is quite possibly referring to Nyleth, yes, but it seems to be implying that Nyleth is simply unable to do much of anything about Splinter, and less so that she was conquered or anything. Nyleth was just as asleep before Splinter showed up

I think it's more likely that "other sleeping deep" is GMS

[limber anvil]

Yeah. Im guessing she is just an isma version of Unn weakened and now part of the forest

She lives but no longer a concrete entity more abstract

[silver spire]

im thinking its more likely that shes referring to the other inhabitants of shellwood such as the flowers and such

its up to interpretation, but its far more likely considering the theming of her being a weed in shellwood as well as the general dialogue

after all, why would splinter even care about the weavers?

hold on i think there was another evidence in game files

[shell vessel]

What's interesting with GMS is that it's heaavily hinted at that she can't be defeated by any normal means without significant drawbacks (even the Weavers who were very much against her chose to encase her in a cocoon rather than slay her). So this makes me wonder whether the Pale King is actually dead. Like the only evidence pointing to that he is dead is a "dream" of a kingsmould we call a white palace.

[jovial trail]

I think the weaver tablet in shellwood implies the weavers protected the bugs

[lone folio]

I feel like the "other, other, sleeping deep" could perhaps refer to GMS

[ember river]

All hearts are alive, though

[silver spire]

why would she know that? moreover, it would be more likely that shes referring to nyleth

[lone folio]

Uhhh weed power or something

[ember river]

I feel like that just supports my theory that void got the Pale King

Void is, to date, the only known thing able to kill higher beings for good

[silver spire]

uhhh try better

[shell vessel]

That is true actually

[silver spire]

fair enough, thats the only thing i couldn't explain
Sister, spider, husk bound to branch,
Watch over these bugs, passing safe,
Warded by fear,
No longer your meal.

WAIT A FREAKING MINUTE

[lone folio]

I thought that the fact she says "other, other" is odd but sister splinter is just a weed so it doesn't make much sense for her to know much

[silver spire]

"sister, spider, husk BOUND TO BRANCH"

[ember river]

The King being alive is something I considered but ultimately dismissed, it'd be kinda weird with the narrative and contradict Bardoon's statement as their kind being gone

[silver spire]

"NO LONGER YOUR MEAL"

chat, surely you see what i'm getting at

[lone folio]

Oh this seems interesting

[edgy nebula]

oh thats cool so the three were like a trio

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah its addressed to the weaver directly above it

[silver spire]

then why would it say these, unless the weaver above had an unsatiable desire to eat pilgrims or smth
"sister, spider, husk BOUND TO BRANCH"
"NO LONGER YOUR MEAL"

this is my interpretation at least, but i think it's referring to sister splinter

[sinful nimbus]

The spire the weaver in is bound to a branch, weavers are Pharlids

[ember river]

Some people have said it refers to the stickbugs

As in, the weaver husk is threatening them with fear so the pilgrims don't become their meal

[lime nova]

I'd like to say something about Isma and Dryya. I believe both were created by the White Lady. Dryya's name seems to do with the word dryad, a forest spirit bound to the trees. She is pale in color, with a rootlike head, and petal-like body, protecting the White Lady

Isma may come from Ismah, a word in Islam related to tranquility, immunity, and divine grace bestowed by god. To me this heavily implies that Isma is connected to one of the plant gods of Hallownest, of which there are two. Isma's Grove seems to bear more similarities to the Queen's Gardens than to Greenpath.

[sinful nimbus]

Sister Splinter isn't even a husk bound to a branch

[lone folio]

I feel like it's more interesting that he's dead

[ember river]

It is, it also doesn't really make sense that there's nothing else to convey the opposite

[silver spire]

it's up to interpretation since i do think that it is referring to splinter or at least something to do with shellwood

[jovial trail]

Idk if this is true but it’s a very fun theory! I like it

[sinful nimbus]

Why would that be the case

[silver spire]

idk, either way could be likely, its just my interpretation of the tablet

[ember river]

Typically when writing a story, you want to leave some indicators, no matter how well hidden, so those curious enough could have considered it earlier on

[lone folio]

Dryya being created is defently something I could believe but the isma thing is eh

[jovial trail]

I wonder if we’ll ever get more lore on the five great knights

[silver spire]

true legends get trauma from the pale court isma fight

[foggy fractal]

pale court isma ain't even that bad

[silver spire]

those damn pellet shooters

[sinful nimbus]

OK but why is Sister Splinter described as a husk

[lime nova]

I'm not referring to the hearts still beating, I'm referring to the character that gave the heart existing without it. Karmelita and The Green Prince both die after you steal their heart in dream, Nyleth doesn't even get her heart taken in dream, she gives it to you voluntarily afterwards

[tropic sand]

hello again lore chat, just... chilling in here

[sinful nimbus]

She was very much alive at the time that tablet was written

[lone folio]

I feel like if anything she was created by unn and even then ismas grove doesn't look anything like greenpath (except for being green and having plants but at that point you can say anything is connected to anything)

[shell vessel]

King can be gone literally, although I agree that would kinda make less sense narratively since he kinda sacrificed everything to keep hallownest standing.

But the void getting him is also really strange, since it seems to attack weirdly selectively outside literally void sea (example: love key body in QG). It also doesn't make a ton of sense that it ate literally the entire fucking palace along the way, unless you're willing to say "well that's Ancient Basin, forged as if rock itself had a will, and rock's will was to have people not build structures inside it"

[sinful nimbus]

I think its the weakest boss

[ember river]

It's interesting, but ultimately we get no mention of that, nor were any of the surviving Great Knights created by any higher being (or it's not shown).
Also, Dryya seems to be wearing armor, so perhaps she was a bodyguard for the White Lady from the get-go?

[foggy fractal]

yeah I get the pain it took me awhile to get it but once it clicks its just as difficult as the other fights imo

[lone folio]

Oh yeah she could just be wearing armor that's similar to the queen to show off the fact that she is the bodyguard of the queen

[lime nova]

Bruh

[ember river]

Oh, I assumed the white palace was placed in the dream realm by the Pale King at some point, and void just leaked into it somehow

[foggy fractal]

which one do you think its the hardest ?

[silver spire]

dryya is indisputably easier

either her or tiso

[sinful nimbus]

By weakest I mean lamest, hardest is probably Ze'mer

[foggy fractal]

ok tbf I haven't played pale court ever since like it released but I did clear the champion's call

[foggy fractal]

I have no idea why the pale court team made the outlines of ze'mer and dryya a bit lighter instead of just black
that always pissed me off

[ember river]

We also don't really know what the WL was doing before the Pale King arrived, so they may have known each other or something.
Or maybe she is a creation, though I find it less likely

[silver spire]

i almost beat it, im using overcharmed fury of the fallen abyssal bloom quick slash unbreakable strength and steady body build

[sinful nimbus]

True!!

[lime nova]

I'm very well aware that the thing I said is not directly confirmed with words. That's why I didn't mention those hypothetical words when I made the comment. I am speculating on artist intent based on the context clues provided in the art itself. I'm aware it is possible it could not be true. I don't really see the point of a reply that just says "another explanation could exist and your theory is not confirmed" because like... yeah I'm pretty sure that was already self evident

[ember river]

The one I find most curious is Isma, but Dryya I feel like it doesn't seem a creation at all, especially since her looks are just armor, like Hegemol's

[lone folio]

Well pale king did create the kingsmoulds and kingsmoulds out of void so maybe the void kept in the white palace started escaping it's containment? Maybe the kingsmoulds started malfunctioning? Heck maybe the fact that the kingsmould that has the entire place is kept inside made of void has something to do with it.

Also the king has regrets and void has something to do with regrets so that's also something

[lime nova]

Doesn't seem a creation? What evidence do you have that she isn't a creation? You seem to be operating under the impression that that's the default answer and anything different must have rigorous proof

[ember river]

I'm not sure of what happened, or even if it really was void what killed the PK (though I still think it was), but those options seem plausible

[ember river]

I am operating under the premise that when nothing is confirmed, wanton speculation doesn't make for a replacement

[lethal burrow]

if you use a cogfly in the first sinner boss fight, and then die while it's still active, it will still be floating next to you when you wake up outside of the boss arena, if you lose... I don't know what this means but it probably is something

[ember river]

So pretty much anything I say is equally as valid as you as it's unconfirmed (unless I say something really stupid)

[sinful nimbus]

wanton 😭

[lethal burrow]

I smell deep the opportunity for another harrah Weaver argument to stir...

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway bugs not being created by white lady is the default assumption yes

[lime nova]

I think I'm probably going to block you. The approach you have to lore is extremely boring and dismissive of new ideas. You have consistently shat on every idea I've had, and see no purpose to anything you've said to me other than to dismiss me and put me down. Goodbye

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[ember river]

Oh no I am being blocked whatever will I do

[sinful nimbus]

Blocked. Argument won 🥱

[foggy fractal]

ggs

[lime nova]

I'm doing this to have fun and propose cool ideas I have, not to win a debate in the marketplace of ideas lmao

[ember river]

Guess consistency and solid evidence is a bad thing to seek in lore discussion

[lethal burrow]

(just throwing my hat in the ring I think it's a good idea to acknowledge possibilities, but you should acknowledge them in full, potential and likelihood, and everything else)

[shell vessel]

"Being placed in dream realm" is kind of far-reaching, don't you think? Like okay sure he got his hands on some tech to place dreamers or whatever and that's already strange. But here we're talking about a guy doing a literal cut & paste into dream realm. This begs several questions:

• Why? Was the point of that to escape the infection himself? That's contradictory to WL being completely unaffected.
• How? We don't just see nothing in place of palace, we see a ruin. So whatever method used for transportation involved destruction in a literal sense rather than a smooth consumption.
• Why saws? This being a dream (or a memory) of a kingsmould would make it justified since they were made with the incentive of "PROTECT" (or something like that i don't remember)

However it would explain void leaking into the palace because it was in place of a literal void construct, and we see the same with radiance trapped in THK having a bit of void left being unified under TK's will to consume Radiance.

[sinful nimbus]

Its okay to want to have fun but announcing that you have blocked a user because you dislike them is extremely funny

[lone folio]

Being open minded to new ideas is always a good thing

[lime nova]

Yeah it is kinda funny

[foggy fractal]

btw is the pale king bigger in orgrim's memory than he is when we see him (white palace, pop, abyss memory)

[lethal burrow]

it's courteous though it's often not done in a manner of health

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think so?

[sinful nimbus]

true...

[lone folio]

Probably just the wings making him appear larger

[lime nova]

Like, do I think it's guaranteed that Dryya was created by the White Lady? No. Obviously not. Do I think it's a reasonable interpretation that I haven't seen elsewhere before and wanted to bring up because it seems cool? Ye

[lone folio]

The legs 😭

[lethal burrow]

it's an interpretation, but I don't know if it can be called reasonable when there's nothing to back it up... like yes it's possible, but besides the name thing which is sort of a stretch what is there that suggests that you know?

Like it's a cool idea, but it doesn't have that much backing it up is all

[shell vessel]

something something thinking higher = making him bigger, I think basically all depictions of PK are bigger than him IIRC

[tropic sand]

(Sorry for the text wall yapping but, i think i might have a cool-ish idea in my head i want to share)

Just sharing a idea i have about smth that would be cool in silksong in my opinion, not really lore discussion but close enought: i have been thinking about a mechanic thingy since i first saw the cutscene of the first sinner after defeating her, about her memory of her getting to be a weaver by GMS. And i have been thinking (if this power is not smth exclusive to GMS) "what if hornet can also do this "lift being" action thingy since she uses silk and such, to a lesser extent"? And being able to like, lift a creature into becoming a NPC in the world you can talk to, and depending on what kind of creature it is, it defines it's personality (example: a Furm being lifted in a sentient bug, and cuz furms like to get bells to protect their bodies, the sentient one might be a shopkeeper that sells armor or smth). This action prob would be unlocked in a weaver related place or smth, and even if the creatures you can lift being restricted to a few creatures (maybe from certaint quests), i still like the idea of "creating sentient bugs" with hornet's half-weaver powers, and i guess it extends the idea of her creating a world she wants to a small degree (sourced from red memory, you know). (and yes, ik song prob gives bugs sentience, so prob this would also be conbined with singing ig)

[ember river]

Those are actually very fair and interesting points, plus a few more indications that the White Palace is entirely in a dream, like the Retainers dissolving into essence instead of dropping actual corpses.
However, the way it works is kinda different to the other dreams. You don't leave the dream if you die, or if you fall out of bounds, and the Kingsmoulds still seem to be real and not dissolve into essences.

Perhaps the castle crumbled due to lack of maintenance? Though it seems completely ripped out of reality, which as you said, is really strange

[stuck berry]

finishing the iceberg

if you guys know of anything i really really ought to put here tell me

[foggy fractal]

go Star

[ember river]

The motivation is also my biggest question, the Pale King doesn't really have any reason to do that from what we know

[shell vessel]

Perhaps the castle crumbled due to lack of maintenance?

I think cornifer / elderbug says that the palace literally vanihed one day

[lethal burrow]

(also naw that not his legs that's just his cloak he's sitting on his throne)

[foggy fractal]

read that whole list and confirms they aren't missing anything trust

[lone folio]

I was gonna say that earlier but forgot

[ember river]

Oh, right, forgot about that. I think it was Cornifer or Lemm?

[stuck berry]

i'm fine if i miss a few details it's not meant to be hella comprehensive

[lime nova]

Here is everything I have to support the idea

• Dryya sounds like dryad, which are plant-like forest servant deities
• Dryya's head looks kinda like a root and her lower body looks kinda like petals, in a similar way to Isma's petal like body, which we know is plant inspired
• Dryya is directly associated with the White Lady and is the only knight known to be pale in color in the modern day, possibly being an indication of relation to a Pale Being

[shell vessel]

Actually I think it was elderbug

[lethal burrow]

This is funnier though

[ember river]

My headcanon is that the PK never left most of his worm form behind so he doesn't have any legs, and just has those stubby hands for limbs

[lethal burrow]

fair

[lethal burrow]

I assume he just looks like the vessels with a black body and all that considering hornet shares such features and she definitely doesn't get that from her mom

[lone folio]

Then it probably got transported somehow, if he could trap a god in a void being he could probably somehow put his palace in one

[edgy stone]

I do like to imagine pale king as a poor mimicry of the normal bugs of hallownest

[ember river]

Really? I'm not sure why Elderbug would know much about the castle but I don't remember the exact dialogue. It's not like it matters

[sinful nimbus]

1. Pale King seemed to be very sad about the downfall of his kingdom and likely wanted to be left alone
2. This isn't true. The actual palace is noted to be completely gone with no traces left by both Lemm and Ellina, the only ruin still present is the actual entrance
3. See number 1

[lone folio]

It is

Looks like he's hyped while watching a game of soccer

[lethal burrow]

all i'll say is I don't think the white palace being in the dream realm and the white palace disappearing completely are unrelated

[edgy stone]

Like he looks like a normal bug but it's all superficial

[foggy fractal]

yeah he looks fine proportionally, he still looks bigger though like he has been upscaled compared to the other knights

[sinful nimbus]

His eyesockets are completely empty

Freak

[ember river]

Yeah, that's probably the case. Probably with a similar body shape to PV/Hornet, more stylized, judging by what the offspring ends up becoming.
It'd be pretty cool that it was glowing white instead of having a black body, though

[foggy fractal]

being hella comprehensive is awesome though

[edgy stone]

I do think it plays into the idea that the bugs of hallownest dont really know who they're worshipping

[lone folio]

Team cherry probably just made him bigger to look cooler in the background :/

[tropic sand]

ummm, sorry for bring this up but did anyone see this and said what their thoughts on this idea thingy? i think i have smth somewhat interesting to say, but no reactions on it? :<

[ember river]

They most definetely aren't, but why or how are two big questions I'd say

[edgy stone]

They have statues of the pale king in his image but no one really ever see him in person

[stuck berry]

it's been out for one month and i haven't even datamined the game myself it's not possible yet 😔

[ember river]

They definetely have

[sinful nimbus]

If we assume his glowing light is soul based (Which seems plausible) its possible it was pure white since PV's hand turns completely white when casting spells

[lone folio]

Some things are there for the visuals

[ember river]

Emilitia mentions seeing him glow much brighter than both the Radiance and the Delicate Flower, the Seer also mentions his light being brighter than the Radiance's

[foggy fractal]

this is really good for a month though lmao everything from mods to datamining to speedruns are like x20 faster than Hollow Knight

[ember river]

I think the "pale" component of pale beings is inherently related to soul, considering the kingsoul and GMS just being a massive silk (which is kinda just soul) producer

[sinful nimbus]

I don't remember any dialogue hinting at him being brighter than Radiance and its true he was rarely seen, that's what Lemm says and its the entire reason we have King's Idols

[stuck berry]

hey peng did you think i missed anything

[shell vessel]

You don't leave the dream if you die, or if you fall out of bounds
While true, this is also kinda the case for radiance fight, where upon dying you don't just exit to THK room. Might be a gameplay thing or something void-related.

Kingsmoulds still seem to be real and not dissolve into essences.
Kingsmoulds are shells mixed with void though, and are not alive to begin with. So it makes sense for them instead of dying to simply be made non-functional.

[sinful nimbus]

something something slabfly entries

[ember river]

Oh that is true, the radiance is described as being much brighter than the dream nail in that line, I misremembered

[stuck berry]

hmm i could stand to add the clawmaiden room

[sinful nimbus]

Oh where's the Old Penitent is Romino theory

[shell vessel]

But why is the entrance intact?

[sinful nimbus]

He knows the conductors melody that belongs on there

[stuck berry]

i have it yes

[sinful nimbus]

WHAT

[stuck berry]

wdym by this

[foggy fractal]

Hornet is racist theory.

[stuck berry]

word for word bar for bar

[stuck berry]

too jokey methinks

[sinful nimbus]

Smh I'm washed

Its not even a joke Hornet is like actually racist 😭

[ember river]

Good point about the first one, seems interesting that it's only the White Palace and Radiance fight have those qualities

As for the second, I guess that could work, they are just runed shells with void inside

[lone folio]

This theory is something I will never believe

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe it was left behind or something and recreated in the dream

[ember river]

Some people say he's singing the Conductor's melody

[stuck berry]

based and eugenicspilled

[lone folio]

People are deaf

[sinful nimbus]

What did they mean by this

[foggy fractal]

where would it go btw maybe layer 2 or 1 ?

journal entries aren't that obscure

[ember river]

Yeah, I've personally never heard it myself, but I guess people were preconditioned to hearing it by the theory

[foggy fractal]

yeah I was listening to it with literal 100% volume and couldn't hear the resemblence at all

[ember river]

I'd put strung to serve higher

Also, why would the First Sinner be Atla?

I've never heard that one

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner is Atla is the Phone Guy is Purple Guy of Silksong

[fathom hill]

is the unused ending there? more on the surface side

[foggy fractal]

ourple guy 😭 😭 🤤

[lone folio]

Saying that the singing is similar makes no sense to me, like at that point we can say that pale king and flea master mooshka are connected because they stand on two legs and are white

[covert tusk]

It’s more shitposty than serious imo but y’all’s thoughts on this connection?

[ember river]

The Pale King created fleakind after Hallownest failed CONFIRMED

[foggy fractal]

the only similarity is their voices sound a bit similar imo

[radiant badger]

Ngl i think the void takes the power of the beings they take into the void, we already saw Gms's powers get used by the void. Could explain why the void had such beef with the radiance because they wanted their power. Small theory i got off the top of my head

[stuck berry]

probably 2, my reasoning is
1- it's very hard for casual players to miss this
2- most people who go for 100% and all hunter's notes will see these, as well as some more obscure lore tidbits and steel soul
3- you probably won't know these immediately until someone tells you
4- more obscure lore shit that you'd really have to dig to find (i should put vespa named hornet higher but meh)
5- more obscure no notes
6- venturing into the unknown with these
7- there is no way you'd know this at all like whatsoever

[gleaming wigeon]

I'm dead this is so good

[lone folio]

See I like how this comes upp the moment I say that it's funny that we could connect things because of the color they are

[foggy fractal]

but that doesn't mean what they're singing is similar

[ember river]

Deep Zote lore

[foggy fractal]

yeah like no one in this whole server posted the organ sleepers till I did 😭 shit is so obscure

[ember river]

I've gotta admit, I was surprised at Shellwood being named Shellwood, I had to run and doublecheck Zote's journal entry to see if I was misremembering

[lethal burrow]

Stolen valour.

[lone folio]

Wait what even is the evidence for atla being first sinner?

[covert tusk]

Honestly considering TC isn’t opposed to retcons, it’d be really sick to have his journal entry capitalize the word Shellwood, meaning that isn’t the MATERIAL he carved it from, it’s WHERE he carved it

[stuck berry]

there is a weaver effigy near her room in the slab, it's a theory i only put it there because 4 or 5 people advocated for it

[ember river]

I have zero clue, and hadn't heard this theory before the iceberg

[ember river]

Wait, that one's Atla's?

[covert tusk]

Like how Trobbio isn’t connected to the Grimm Troupe because he uses a much more vibrant shade of red and stuff

[spark valve]

Atla weavenest also used runes extensively in their traps

[lethal burrow]

first sinner probably was at mount fay because the weavernest there has the door kicked in and mount fay is close by to the prison

[lone folio]

See I have made several connections about them.... BUT LIKE HE MENTIONS THE FLAMES OF A DYING KINGDOM AND HEARTS IN THE SAME POEM

[foggy fractal]

yeah wiki says the carving of atla is found at the slab apparently

[shell vessel]

Speaking of, who are the Conductors actually? like:

• Architects built (?) the place or at least are in charge of all the mechanisms and whatnot
• Vaultkeepers store and reproduce all the knowldedge of pharloom
• Conductors just kinda exist??? Sing songs??? Use silk for... something??? Have a heavy mantle they don't want??? Undergo serious surgeries for unknown benefit???

[lethal burrow]

Conductors are the leaders

[covert tusk]

WAIT HE DOES?? I DONT REMEMBER THAT I JUST REMEMBER HIM SPEAKING ABOUT BRINGING MUSIC BACK TO THE SILENT HALLS

[spark valve]

Conductors are in charge

[stuck berry]

the fact that it specifically requires key of apostate though

[foggy fractal]

right that too

[lone folio]

Uknown benefit is immortality

[lone folio]

SOMETHING LIKE THAT YES

[ember river]

Ah, I see, could be, the strongest argument is the starting part I'd say

[stuck berry]

hey tammo you got any notes on this, i'm not trying to be mega comprehensive but yeah

[ember river]

Of course following her example, if she was the First Sinner, would lead to imprisonment and pain

[slow tendon]

If the choir is the army the conductors are prob the generals

[covert tusk]

Conductors control the music, which keeps Silk at bay (hense the title, Conductor)
They’re like the most outwardly holy of the caste, vs the more hidden Architects and Vaultkeepers

[radiant badger]

Hear me out tho, they both have like alot of horns

[ember river]

The conductors are the rulers of the Citadel

[stuck berry]

you sure they're horns

[ember river]

I'd say Maestros are more like generals while Ministers are more like, well, ministers

[radiant badger]

Yeah you're right
Might be hair

[covert tusk]

Dude it’d be fucking hysterical but also really interesting if Trobbio was an ex troupe member, meaning he had presumably more will power to escape than brumm who needed our help

[ember river]

Conductors are just the highest authority

[lone folio]

Okay well take heart doesn't mean much actually

[spark valve]

uuuh lifeblood coming from near pale lake?

[charred nimbus]

Of course they are, they have a full arena that is a encarnation of a nuke bomb guarding then...

[covert tusk]

1. So he is a butterfly, neat

2. CRIMSON, when he’s again a way more vibrant red is interesting

[shell vessel]

There are at least 2 conductors which have already died before hornet arrives (Romino & Mizello), where one we know had at least one surgery proven to be final. So it doesn't really seem working lol.

[radiant badger]

What where??

[stuck berry]

what do you mean there's no pale lake near wormways

[foggy fractal]

elaborate my good friend

[stuck berry]

i don't recall there being any lifeblood in the ducts either

[compact escarp]

How did the 4th chorus ended up in far field as it was stationed in the architects room?

[lone folio]

Hey ballord or whatever his name was is still alive due to silk

[spark valve]

yeah it wasn't discovered in wormways and currently there's no actual trace of it near pale lake

[stuck berry]

one of life's great mysteries

[ember river]

Not true immortality but they were seeking that, that's why the Conductors' last edict mentioned them wanting to become machines

[spark valve]

Highly unlikely! The grey and barren soil of the mainland could never produce something as singular as this, and that is undisputable fact!
Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, **hidden deep in salt-stricken waters. **I brought it to these caves under her direction, to study how it flourishes in a foreign place.

[charred nimbus]

I aways wondered, are that annoying enemy who flies and do double damage to you with their heads conductors in project or just the hat that is the same style?

[lone folio]

SEE HE USED EVERY WORD THAT A TROUPE MEMBER WOULD YET HE DOESN'T SEEM RELATE

[foggy fractal]

hmmmmmm nah this is refering to Sandsea Waste instead TRUST.

[stuck berry]

oooh good find, dunno if i'd think it was iceberg worthy but it's something to consider

[lone folio]

Also I would say that he's a moth

[charred nimbus]

Trobbio is a butterfly

[lone folio]

He but he looks moth

[ember river]

They are closely related

[lone folio]

Wierd ass butterfly

[spark valve]

do you have cindril weavers being the ones that came to hallownest

[vague whale]

He says butterfly

[ember river]

Also it doesn't look like a butterfly in HK either, we see the city of tears singer ghost

[lone folio]

Yes but he looks like a moth... Also wouldn't moths be in the spotlight because you know light attracts moths?

[ember river]

I guess they can hide their wings

[ember river]

They would be literally IN the spotlight

[lone folio]

Idk I feel like it would make more sense for him to be moth but he isn't :/

[ember river]

Him being a moth would be a sizeable plothole though

[vague whale]

cmon, this is hollow knight, not every bug looks like or even has a real world bug counterpart

[foggy fractal]

I don't think that's on the list
which one is cindril aagain

[ember river]

Since moths were the creation of the Radiance and went extinct

[lone folio]

I know I know

[ember river]

I think weavenest cindril is the one in far fields?

[stuck berry]

the one where you get silkspeed anklets

[ember river]

Yeah that one

[lone folio]

True

[spark valve]

the one with the silkspeed anklets and the rune harp about fleeing, as well as the rune depicting exits to the kingdom

[stuck berry]

i never did the anklets + fleabrew thing so i didn't see the harp

[ember river]

It was one of the couple things I had to look up because I had no idea how to get it

[charred nimbus]

That place was getting me crazy because i'm pretty sure i didn't have one of those..

[lone folio]

Trobbio is still my favourite character even though he looks like the wrong kind of bug...

[stuck berry]

is there a thing that specifically relates them to hallownest

[ember river]

My favourite character is Garmond

[charred nimbus]

Maybe you just like Moths, because there is plenty of characters in Hollow knight world wich are something but don't look like it

[spark valve]

there's the widow line about her being descended from those who dared to flee

[charred nimbus]

Wasn't that directed to Hornet?

[spark valve]

but that's kind of obvious anyways

[ember river]

The only reference to Hallownest from Pharloom bugs that I know of is Hornet's Choral Commandment

[lone folio]

Yeah

There are also characters that don't look like anything cough cough Grimm cough cough

[stuck berry]

yeah i don't see how cindril is specifically tied to hallownest

[foggy fractal]

nah all we know is that both groups fleed
for all we know the weavers in hk can be another group who fleed

[stuck berry]

and we know most if not all the weavers fled pharloom

[ember river]

Well, it makes sense that Grimm doesn't look like anything

[charred nimbus]

Grimm acts like a bat, he's a weirdo

[ember river]

He's the creation of a Higher Being for the sole purpose of being a vessel

[shell vessel]

The funniest detail about this is that the only place in which Zote is "Grey" is in Bretta's uhh.. fan... fiction?
I initially assumed that "grey" was also some ancient english praise word, but apparently it's literally only a color.

Based on that evidence, I'd conclude that "Grey Prince Zote" is "Grey" is because Bretta's savior, TK is "White knight in shining armor"

[ember river]

He can look however the Heart chooses

[stuck berry]

i'm gonna put "cindril lore room" in layer 3 then because i do think it's interesting

[lone folio]

I feel like I have heard of this before...

[ember river]

Same as Vessels not being real things either

[charred nimbus]

Vessels were made by biology tho, different then Grimm

[ember river]

We discussed it a few days ago, that's why

[lone folio]

I meant as in a higher being creating a "vessel"

[foggy fractal]

oh did you put the mottled skaars yet

[ember river]

We don't know how the first Grimm came to be, but in any case there are no real bugs that come from giant magic worms and roots

[stuck berry]

i did not good catch

[shell vessel]

well kind of a bat if we're willing to go for a stretch

[ember river]

Oh, it's kinda funny since both Grimm and the Hollow Knight were made to contain a dream realm god forever, though for different reasons

[charred nimbus]

I didn't meant exactly bugs, i just meant they were real things in the sense that they were made by reproduction

[lone folio]

Wildly different reasons

[ember river]

But the process is roughly the same I'd reckon

[foggy fractal]

afaik all 3 of the mottled skaars are not haunted
the mottled skaar shopkeeper also seems still loyal to Karmelita based on his needolin dialogue
guys correct me if I'm wrong

[ember river]

If the Hollow Knight was made by the Radiance, I'd assume you'd be fighting Pure Vessel but stronger

[shell vessel]

Isn't part of the ritual literally killing each consecutive Grimm to let the next one mature? Idk if that could be called "forever"

[stuck berry]

they're not, of the other two one is a proficient hunter and the other is outright friendly to hornet

[ember river]

Yeah, fair, but all Grimms seem to be alike, and judging by Brumm's actions, they seem to be pretty much the same person

[lone folio]

Don't forget the one in the target room

[lethal burrow]

you can tell if somebody is haunted by if strings appear from above when you get them to sing

[lone folio]

He's friendly aswell

Or she

[charred nimbus]

The Craws are not haunted and they also did nothing wrong

[ember river]

Some of them are I think

[muted lantern]

also im back to correct myself, it seems that silk IS probably inside every bug in pharloom, haunted or not, not just pilgrims and citadel bugs because the one bug we are certain has no silk, on the surface, can't be needolined, implying it only works by controlling the silk within creatures

[lethal burrow]

Some of this is true

[stuck berry]

he's the one i'm talking about

[ember river]

The ones in the Court aren't though

[shell vessel]

It's kinda funny because so far Grimm seems to be the only actually immortal person, ironically achieving that by dying repeatidly.

[lethal burrow]

Why do you think?

[stuck berry]

i should also add the court of craws too now that you mention it

[foggy fractal]

yeah
I wonder why being mottled makes them not haunted though
also do you have the pin in fourth chorus being the seamstress' on there

[charred nimbus]

I'm pretty sure the non court ones are also not haunted, but no certaint

[ember river]

Well, it's kind of an avatar of the Nightmare Heart, the immortal one is the Heart

[lone folio]

Being mottled maybe has something to do with defying GMS?

[stuck berry]

i do not

[ember river]

A considerable amount of the non-court ones get naturally voided in act 3. Pretty weak but it's what we have

[muted lantern]

maybe mottled bugs is something that comes with age? and since having silk in your body extends your lifespan the haunted bugs don't age?

[lone folio]

We have 2 hunters so i want sure which one you were referring to

[ember river]

Well, Gurr is an outcast and hunted down one of Karmelita's bodyguards

While Karmelita isn't mottled and she also resisted GMS

[stuck berry]

should i add that the silkflies are bug souls theory

[lone folio]

Oh yeah

[charred nimbus]

I think it's just the void tho, again, i'm pretty sure the non court ones are still not haunted even before act 3

[ember river]

That's not a theory, that's well confirmed

[lone folio]

Back to the drawing board 😔

[foggy fractal]

yeah but that doesn't answer why they aren't haunted sadly
the mottledness is just a sign of age, and Karmelita doesn't have it either even though she's old af

[ember river]

The void can't possess creatures by itself, it's the threads it's using to spread what causes the "voided" state

[stuck berry]

could be a weird defect like vitiligo

[foggy fractal]

oh you don't have the whiteward silk siphon on there yet ?

[muted lantern]

karmelita seems to be more than just a regular bug, since her existance is implied to cause life to bloom in the area

[lone folio]

When I first read the name of the mottled skarr I thought it said mollted as in bugs molting their exoskeleton which made sense if some of it didn't come of and that's why there were patches of white

[foggy fractal]

because she had so many children trust

[muted lantern]

like hornet says something about the plants withering and dying without her

[stuck berry]

i have "whiteward experiments" yeah

[ember river]

Isn't the hearts told to be passed down and the ones we fought were just the last wielders of their power?

[lone folio]

Unfrotuantly my first headcannon for them was destroyed the second time I read his name

[ember river]

To my understanding, Hearts are the representation of the energy inherent to a place, so without it, it will eventually wither and need to regrow

[stuck berry]

added, maybe i should put every robot has a silkfly

[ember river]

Happens to the best of us

[ember river]

Oh, that one's nice, yeah

[lone folio]

Yeah that's a pretty cool detail

[foggy fractal]

I think silk siphon derseves its own box given how its more obscure compared to the other experiments
I think it should be Silk Siphon & Silkflies, and then remove the box that said Silkflies are not Lumaflies ? idk its hard to keep track of the board can you post it again

[edgy barn]

I had the theory that the mottled skarrs had marked themselves as a way of signifying "still sane" (non-haunted). But the curvesickle skarr's dialogue about it being considered a curse implies it's something they have naturally.

[ember river]

Also please make mention of the architects and their origins, we don't really know if they were organic at some point and became machines, if some "original architect" made the architect machines or what

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Silk_Flies heres the wiki page for reference btw

[ember river]

It's one of the most interesting parts of the automata to me

[charred nimbus]

I also don't think Gurr would be marking himself just to appear sane..

[muted lantern]

I can't believe the cogworks are fnaf animatronics

[foggy fractal]

har har har har har

[lone folio]

I wonder if the organic architects used the silk siphon to turn into silk flies to the be put into their new bodies so they could work for much much longer

[obsidian kelp]

Fun fact on the topic of silk flies a bunch of silk flies fly out when you beat the fourth chorus because it’s made of a BUNCH of souls

[muted lantern]

Five knights at granny's

[lone folio]

Seems somewhat likely

[lone folio]

Hundreds of souls

[lethal burrow]

what of garmond?

[ember river]

That was my first theory, but I also like the idea that an original architect designed and built the others in their image

[charred nimbus]

Chad architects gaining imortality while beta Conductors are suffering eternally trying to live

[stuck berry]

a chorus of souls if you will

[ember river]

Garmond eventually fell to the Haunting

[lone folio]

I like how the vault keepers have not been talked about that much, that's hoe boring they are

[ember river]

I'd look for the final words but the wiki is down for me for some reason

[lethal burrow]

did you add stilkin pinstress?

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think keeping white ward experiments, and replacing Silkflies /= Lumaflies with Silk Siphon and Silkflies is fine

[foggy fractal]

yeah its on there

[ember river]

I think they planned to, but the Haunting got em. There's this Last Edict and all

[fathom hill]

Is there anything about how the silk seems to be generational

For the pilgrims

[lone folio]

His final words were something like "I need some rest"

[stuck berry]

@foggy fractal shifted it around some

[ember river]

No, the ones that Hornet says I mean

[charred nimbus]

You need to add the Styx shapeshifter theory

[compact escarp]

🔥

[obsidian kelp]

Wait wait what’s the verdania princes prophecy I know about the clockwork dancers and the clover dancers but wdym by a prophecy

[stuck berry]

listen i try to put that people don't like it so i compromise and say they share a mask and they still don't like it

[lone folio]

I love the stilkstress so much just because she makes the world feel much more alive

[ember river]

I still think Strung to Serve should go higher than the bottom, same as the whiteward experiments

[lone folio]

I hope we get to fight her in the silksong godhome

[fathom hill]

I think they mean the stuff about how they are soulmates since it's said they were born on the same heartbeat, and those that do are cursed

[charred nimbus]

I'm not sure why they don't like it, it seens like a valid theory

[obsidian kelp]

OH gotcha so it’s like the red string theory

[lone folio]

She would use a similar moveset to the pinstress while also using stilken gadgets and stuff

[foggy fractal]

probably due to Styx's corpse

[stuck berry]

i put it in the lowest layer before so i put it with other cut content

[stuck berry]

he molted!!! like bugs do!! he's a bug!!!!!!!!!

[ember river]

Pinstress Sisters at the pantheon peak

[charred nimbus]

it could not be a corpse tho, there is no head i think

[foggy juniper]

I think they mean the mask room above styx rather than the mask that styx and skynx share

[ember river]

Aight, fair, I still think the whiteward experiments can be figured out by normal exploration pretty easily though

[lone folio]

Absolute GMS

[stuck berry]

i'll change it to "styx and skynx's masks" and hope whoever is analyzing it will come to that conclusion

[lone folio]

Pure lace

Nightmare king Trobbio

[ember river]

We deserve an actual GMS superboss

[ember river]

NO NO MORE RELATIONS TO THE TROUPPE

TROBBIO IS NOTHING LIKE GRIMM

Fleamaster Mooshka is the true Troupe Master

[foggy fractal]

imagine having to explain everything on the iceberg 😭 shit gonna be like 2 hours long video

[charred nimbus]

I have my own theory too, but it was only discussed here by me and one other guy because the whole chat was discussing how Lace had a child's body and mind

[honest summit]

||Anyone know what happened to flick the fixer in act III?||

[stuck berry]

he's fine in another area

[foggy fractal]

moved to the marrow

where the flea caravan was at the start of the game

[lethal burrow]

What new bosses do you think would be cool for a pantheon? I'm not talking about upgraded version. I'm talking about new bosses.

probably get

like maybe a new, pinstress boss
vespa
shakra's master.
vog

[ember river]

It's a pretty long game, I already have more hours 100% this without any DLC than what I got for 112% Hollow Knight

[lone folio]

Ah I see, IFDT (insanely fucking depressed Trobbio)

[stuck berry]

cogwork beastfly

[obsidian kelp]

HELL NO

[foggy fractal]

oh speaking of

[charred nimbus]

I really hope Team Cherry just lets Shakra's master rest really

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsgSvnL9saM

[olive umbra]

My hear me out is Eva in her prime

[ember river]

Troupe Terror Trobbio, and it's just him using the nightmare torch as a weapon while Grimm looks horrified from teh background

[charred nimbus]

Downloading it right now

[lethal burrow]

maybe but then again sheo put down his life of weaponry, and he was still a fight

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[lone folio]

"Hey Grimm I used the troupes weapons can I join now"

[foggy fractal]

its awesome to see the quality of mods Silksong already has compared to when HK first released

[charred nimbus]

I prefer we don't get Shakra's master as a bossfight, because if either she is really good or she's just a weak boss, the memory of Shakra and the whole event on Trail's end quest will just be pissed on and it won't have the same emotional effect

[olive umbra]

I just want a mod that recolors your cloak tbh

[charred nimbus]

it already exists

[lethal burrow]

True

[foggy fractal]

theres like a dozen out there already

[stuck berry]

hey @foggy fractal what were tuning forks again

[ember river]

Savage Beastfly Queen:
-4 mask damage
-Summons Savage Beastflies as an attack, which can then summon normal bugs
-Highest HP in the game
-The arena has spikes on the walls, three small platforms in the middle (think radiant gorb) and muckwater between them

[olive umbra]

Does it recolor the ui cus I’ve seen that as a side effect

[viral badge]

That's too painful to comprehend

[ember river]

It's the ultimate superboss

[charred nimbus]

it didn't work for me, so i don't know 🙁

[obsidian kelp]

I’d wanna get some of the whiteward experiment victims as bosses maybe

[foggy fractal]

give me like 5 minutes

[ember river]

You got them all

As a single boss

And a few random enemies

[obsidian kelp]

No but I mean like

[olive umbra]

I’ll try it out later since I do plan on replaying the game again before the year ends

[lone folio]

Imagine if the stilkstress gets a pantheon boss fight though, after beating groal the great your next challange is.. One singular stilkin.. until you walk closer and then it stands upp draws 2 swords and charges at you

[stuck berry]

because the way i have it now it looks like i'm referencing the mount fay object as if it were the most obscure lore thing

[potent blaze]

hell^2

[olive umbra]

We need a harder fourth chorus and gms boss for sure

[charred nimbus]

I know of a Silksong phanteon Boss, a bossfight were you fight all of Huntress children and then after fighint 9 of her children being 3 at the same time, you get the final boss that is Huntress herself

[stuck berry]

need them to chance the pinstress fight so she's not airstalling half the time

[foggy fractal]

ok give me like 10 minutes I have to do something urgent

[obsidian kelp]

WAIT we need that one scarecrow from greymoor

As a boss

[lone folio]

Ok you have seen fourth chorus but have you seen fifth chorus?

[fathom hill]

glad y'all ain't the ones making the game

[ember river]

Most "experiments" were just normal ass bugs who had longer lifes because of the silk anyways, and the most extreme ones were dreg husks. When they were discarded, their wills lingered for a bit and formed the Unravelled

[fathom hill]

[charred nimbus]

@fathom hill i'll make a mod with my bossfight don't worry

[stuck berry]

it has two attacks and both of them are moving side to side

[charred nimbus]

But it does 6 masks of damage each time it hits

[obsidian kelp]

and it summons craw enemies or something (sounds like absolute torture)

[lone folio]

Trobbio after getting super depression

[ember river]

You forget that the scarecraw was made to scare off normal, intelligent creatures. It wasn't a normal scarecrow, it was a psychological terror weapon that used stitched together pieces of skin from said intelligent species.
Imagine a 3-story tall scarecrow made from stitched together human skin

[obsidian kelp]

Still would make a great boss fight

I have a feeling that it’s going to actually be one

[ember river]

The amount of horrifying shit we do in this game is absurd

[lethal burrow]

One thing I like about sands of karak and verdania is that they both have fantasy names compared to most other locations which are just combinations of two normal words.

Makes them feel like older and more magical, as from the days of the past.

[lone folio]

Then Styx climbes inside and pilots it around like a mech

[ember river]

I'm rather skeptical but one can never know

Keep in mind the only truly unique bosses in Godhome were the nailmasters

[charred nimbus]

Then it starts burning after you defeat it and starts a second phase where it summons wisps

[shell vessel]

Groal the Great is honestly really interesting lorewise. Not only does he have Vengeful Spirit, but he also is bloated like the Soul Master in Hallownest, has a backyard room where there's a dead body with tubes attached to it and literally the same soul capsules nearby, and best of all the settlement's houses are really similar to those seen in Crystal peaks

[ember river]

Nah, Runt will

[lone folio]

And sly

[stuck berry]

i think greymoor is vaguely fantasmamable in that urban fantasy harry potter town sort of way

[obsidian kelp]

Burning scarecraw is so fire

[lethal burrow]

(oaro and mato were sort of just watcher knights anyways)

[ember river]

Well, Sly is just the nailsage, I throw him with the rest

[olive umbra]

Boss is too fun to not be harder

[lone folio]

He's different because he's a ✨ nailsage✨

[foggy fractal]

ok so basically there are cut assets for the cradle named Cradle_Bell_Hub, with some of it looking like tuning forks (the images below being the "awoken" versions, which have the grooves resembling the pure nail and thk's nail for some reason)
then there is the wiki which says "Coding for activating this ending (Strung To Serve, the cut ending) in the final battle references whether certain "tuning forks" were active, which were seemingly related to the Bell Shrines scattered across Pharloom."

[ember river]

They were more fun watcher knights (and also the introduction for sheo's attack patterns)

[shell vessel]

I mean just look at these

[lethal burrow]

I wish we had hit this thing so we had a reason why grandmother silk actually wakes up when we show up

[fathom hill]

Fun

[lethal burrow]

hm....

[stuck berry]

i'll note that as cradle_bell_hub then

[lone folio]

Interesting observation

[ember river]

Same, her being asleep doesn't make much sense

[obsidian kelp]

I have a crazy idea for a boss what if we have to fight loam or a lost loam

[ember river]

So just Nosk?

[obsidian kelp]

And the boss arena is moving like a treadmill

[lone folio]

Imagine if there was one last bell in the cradle that you would need to ring to wake her upp

[ember river]

Oh that's actually funny

[lone folio]

I like this idea

[obsidian kelp]

But sad at the same time

[foggy juniper]

imagine that in a next patch the sandworms from coral tower become puddles of water with some coral, like how verdania is regrowing now

[ember river]

I mean, he dies either way

[lethal burrow]

I wonder where the hell he came from

[stuck berry]

@foggy fractal you think this works? i added silk soul and changed a few words around because it looked very barebones

[ember river]

Good question

[lone folio]

My little pony

[lethal burrow]

OH here's a fun question if you could choose any extremely minor character to come back from hollow knight (I'm talking like on the level of the ghosts in the spirit's glade minor) who would you pick?

[stuck berry]

shittt i gotta add the vespa sprites

[foggy fractal]

I highy doubt they will expand on this
this seems to be like a one and done retroactive change for the clover dancers and that's it
I doubt TC would do meta stuff like this where every patch we get a hint for the next DLC or smth

[ember river]

Broken Vessel

[covert tusk]

I think I’m being slow but like, I coulda swore Groal ATE the snail shaman right? How come the guy where we get the seeker soul has a Snail shaman corpse? Unless I’m misremembering

[lethal burrow]

Unless I'm thinking of some other guy, that's like a whole ass boss fight

[ember river]

Not sure if it's THAT minor considering it's part of the main progression but I just like to see more vessels

[foggy fractal]

cut silk soul mode could be higher ig ? a lot of us oldheads know about it

[lone folio]

Thorax the cannibalism chef

[covert tusk]

A vessel
Not any particular one but like just, SOME vessel. And put them in some really far off spot, like hard to find, to reaaaaaally hammer in just how many of them there are and how far they fled from Hallownest

[ember river]

If that doesn't qualify, then the shade of that one vessel Hornet killed in Greenpath when the Knight arrives, in the true ending, slapping her across the face

[lethal burrow]

no eternal Emelita fans 😔

[stuck berry]

stuck it up here

[lone folio]

Him and lugoli would be best buds

[ember river]

Eternal emilitia has interesting dialogue and even a special interaction with the everbloom

[ember river]

It wasn't actually cannibalism IIRC

[shell vessel]

Like I'm not normally the one to jump to conclusions, but there's a single village in the furthest corner of the map, guarded by a literal hell that has wayyyy more connections to hallownest than it should.

[foggy fractal]

idk where people got the Groal ate the snail shaman from tbh none of the caretaker dialogue mention they were ate by Groal

[stuck berry]

i could also put the cut lost lace attack at 8 but it seems minor

[ember river]

The cut up bugs were just those flies you can find around Hallownest and have generic beast dialogue

[lethal burrow]

Wait, which cut one?

[covert tusk]

Dude speaking of Zote this is minor but his size makes me giggle so much in retrospect, that man is PATHETICALLY small
Like fly characters like Yarnaby get an excuse, and so do the vessels as aborted creatures, but Zote’s just a fucking elf

[ember river]

Sly:

[foggy fractal]

I think its just a concidence ngl
because the connections are just this looks similar to that, etc

[lethal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/new-girl-smirk-wait-for-gif-3528088

[ember river]

Also, we don't know what Zote is

[edgy nebula]

everyone talks about tk and zote being short but hornet.

[foggy fractal]

go to the cut content wiki page trust

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr and trobbio are a reasonable amount taller than her

[stuck berry]

one where she covers a whole side of the screen with void tendrils

[ember river]

Also, Vessels can be huge

[covert tusk]

Me neither but I remember that just being said like fact and honestly, with how Groal pukes up the vengeful spirit, it just kinda made sense
If not the shaman, then for sure the weird soul thingie that the the vengeful spirit looks like when you get it in the first game

[shell vessel]

Groal is definitely bloated from soul though, and vengeful spirit is pretty much confirmed

[ember river]

Broken Vessel wasn't formally trained and it still grew to a considerable size

[covert tusk]

Sly the fly

[lethal burrow]

i'm just waiting for someone to mod the knight into the game

[ember river]

Why do you make a pass for flies and not Zote? You don't know where he came from

[edgy nebula]

hoyyy!

[covert tusk]

Yeah but that’s after they grow, your standard vessel is small before it starts growing

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-npc-caretaker-waving-gif-1296244235196704295

[ember river]

Like every child

[covert tusk]

Because Zote’s fun to bully lmao

[ember river]

Except it's a god-child with void within

[covert tusk]

Yeah exactly my point they get a pass cuz they’re in an infant state
Zote’s like, grown ass man LMAO

[ember river]

I mean, the vessels are old as fuck

Also trust me, Zote will become Pure Zote

It'll grow as large as the Hollow Knight

And as fat as Grey Prince Zote

[foggy fractal]

well even if we say they are connected we aren't really making a point yet given that the game doesn't give us anything to work with

[shell vessel]

On second thought maybe there's like just a big bug species that found its way into cheap housing market, but we never actually see it???

[ember river]

He'll also refine his precepts into 470

[foggy fractal]

maybe something TC expands on later, maybe not

[ember river]

Bugs seem to build their buildings in the shape of shells

[lethal burrow]

Just like how humans make their houses in the shapes of massive people

[foggy fractal]

epic win

[shell vessel]

Except big buildings where they kinda just wing it (City of tears, Citadel, etc.)

[fathom hill]

Honestly I think groal looking like the soul tyrant is more of one of these general parallelisms that silksong has with hk as a mode to reference it, like Quirrel and Seth being parallelisms, The knight and Lace, mossmother and grubmother etc

[ember river]

To be fair, living inside of a skull shaped house or a ribcage apartment building with the spine as an elevator would be fire

[fathom hill]

Plus the general thing about how the shamans are indeed thing that both hallownest and pharloom have, and their power with the soul thingies will be shared

[shell vessel]

My brother he literally uses stolen soul. Soul master is bloated because of soul abuse, how much more direct can it get

[stuck berry]

alright i think that's good

[ember river]

"And if any slimy snail offers you soul, just say NO"

[foggy fractal]

speak of, do we see any other massive corpses in far fields, pilgrim's rest is one, the place where swift is one, there's also another one near the bottom right which I don't remember the purpose of, anyone know what it was for

[stuck berry]

any final final suggestions? i tried to put some cohesion in each layer, didn't do a perfect job but i've seen more popular icebergs with less cohesion

[fathom hill]

Yes but these connections can be seen all over pharloom, and those are not really because of lore reasons but more on that ss references hk a lot

[ember river]

Looks like it has a LOT, but most are justified

[stuck berry]

shit are they not supposed to have a lot

[silk dirge]

just big dudes that died a while ago

[fathom hill]

Mainly because ss is also another point of view of the message of the first game so it's themes are explored with other perspectives

[stuck berry]

also which ones aren't justified

[silver spire]

dies irae should be on surface ngl

[shell vessel]

I feel like you should swap lace/phantom siblings and mist citadel entrance because I didn't actually know about the former lmao

[silk dirge]

likely the hk version of dinosaurs

[ember river]

I hadn't thought of Seth and Quirrel being essentially the same story with different angles

[foggy fractal]

oh right lava escape

[silver spire]

it's so noticeable that anyone who doesn't notice it literally don;t have ears

[stuck berry]

i didn't even notice it

[silver spire]

dawg thats like, the only thing going on for all the bell cutscenes 😭

its in the title screen thene, GMS thene, etc.

[foggy fractal]

its one of those things if you know it you know it, but if you don't you don't

[stuck berry]

are there any things i should remove

[stuck berry]

i noticed it with the bell i didn't notice it with her theme or the many other soundtracks

[foggy fractal]

we're not all music people here

I just assumed it was the Silksong motif

[stuck berry]

looking at it sheesh this is way too crowded

[silver spire]

well thats the most obvious example yea, so at least u got that

[lone folio]

I mean chapel of the architect has a big corpse but it's not the kind of corpse you are looking for

[silver spire]

GMS has it in her track "Awakening", its really obvious, go take a listen

[stuck berry]

we're not all band kids like you man

[foggy fractal]

I mean the whole motif thing could be heard even in the 2019 trailer no

[silver spire]

its EVERYWHERE, movie scores, opera, etc.

[silver spire]

yea like "enter pharloom" has an entire choral section starting with the dies irae

[stuck berry]

cough andy you think i should remove anything

[foggy fractal]

give me a minute to look at it

[silver spire]

seamstress pin should be in the farsight tier and swapped with psalm cylinder 2

[foggy fractal]

Groal stole shaman's power isn't that obscure ?
we get statements from caretaker such as

Aye, they was that. I knew the bug, in 'is prime, long time back. Braver'n most, and as little a fan of this Citadel as you yourself.
Went seekin' alliance with those basic bugs of the swamps. Thought they'd both gain from the union... Scheming defiance, or some such stupidity!
Now he's as dead as he was daft! Don't go tryin' ta make friends in Pharloom, bellringer. Nothin' good comes of it.

which confirms that the shaman at least worked with the swamp bugs

[stuck berry]

yeah you're right

[untold tinsel]

Did the coral tower people die because of the haunting, or way before when grand mother silk arrived?

[stuck berry]

elevator tier can finally have more room thank GOD

[shell vessel]

I'd say even if you want to call that connection obscure, it's obcure for reasons unrelated to silksong

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-plankton-alright-i-get-it-i-get-it-enough-gif-19558825

[foggy fractal]

i am the one tooth round one on the right

[shell vessel]

Wait does First Sinner imply that all Weaver Temples (whatever you want to call them) contain actual bodies of weavers?

[lone folio]

They died because of GMS

[lone folio]

Probably

[stuck berry]

they most certainly do

given the bodies dissappear after you get the ability

[foggy fractal]

it'd be weird if we're binding just a statue

[stuck berry]

hornet binds statues and progressively becomes more rock

[untold tinsel]

what is cradle_bell_hub?

[stuck berry]

good question

[foggy fractal]

oh oh did you add the cut spider caravan/fast travel ?

[untold tinsel]

Oh so the three hearts are old old

[lone folio]

Yes

[stuck berry]

i have no idea what that is

[shell vessel]

I think it's more weird that there's just a shrine casually containing a body of a weaver, possibly even alive, scattered throughout the lands

[lone folio]

They are all of rulers who defied the silken rule

[stuck berry]

ykw i'm cutting the pin in fourth chorus that's not needed

[lone folio]

I mean it's some sort of trivia

[stuck berry]

too small too small

also the way i had it written it took way too much space

[foggy fractal]

I'm not very familiar with this topic, but I do have the cut assets associated with it
there's also some dialogue too apparently but you have to dig through this channel or the text document for that

[agile coral]

the silk siphon is so fucked up

[lone folio]

Hell yeah it is

And I find it awesome

Though if silk flies are soul does that mean lumaflies are similar?

[stuck berry]

added

should i keep "act 3 npc deaths"

[lone folio]

Uhh nah

It's not that interesting they just die and it refers to way too many things honestly

[foggy fractal]

right

[high violet]

oh so did we get a confirmation that this was like a spider caravan through dialogue?

i always thought it mightve been like a silk soar point thing because of the floor assets associated with the spider travel stuff

[foggy fractal]

nah I got nothing
I just vaguely remember people refering to this as a caravan and I don't even have these messages, let alone the stuff datamined

wiki server probably knows better

[stuck berry]

cut watcher at the edge, cut court of craws

i think i'm thinking way too hard about this sort of thing

[foggy fractal]

yeah we were bulking now were cutting 👹

[karmic tartan]

Any new theories today

[stuck berry]

mike schmidt is the purple guy

[high violet]

theory of the day is Lost Lace is void

[karmic tartan]

I disagree she clearly just fell into a puddle of dark water

[compact escarp]

The normal ending is that the ||hornet became the GMS new vessel?||

[stuck berry]

yeah she overtook her as queen of silk

@foggy fractal sorry if i'm bothering you too much with this but do you think this is good or could i stand to cut/add anything else

[neat sandal]

Okay. Just read a theory on reddit
Greyprince Zote and Greyroot are relative

[stuck berry]

literally everyone{s been saying this

[karmic tartan]

None of these are that hidden I know all of them

There is something you're missing

[stuck berry]

well yeah you've been obssessing over this game for a month

[karmic tartan]

There's a cut Vespa boss in the files

[foggy fractal]

yeah but'd the list would be like 10 items otherwise, we're really just starting with the least obscure stuff to most obscure stuff

[stuck berry]

raising loam up a tier

[fresh igloo]

Guys, what's the lore reason behind Hornet being able to build tools but not put fucking rosaries on a string?

[foggy fractal]

its on the second image

unused caravan assets should be renamed to unused spider fast travel assets imo

[lethal burrow]

I want it back so badly

[karmic tartan]

Oh I see

[lethal burrow]

it takes a certain talent to string them up nice and secure

[karmic tartan]

Imagine having the red memory runback tho

[lethal burrow]

They could've just made there be no run back. How about that?

[karmic tartan]

Yeah but that's not funny

[foggy fractal]

I would also just remove cut Lost Lace attack

[stuck berry]

guh

[karmic tartan]

Also longer than a month

[stuck berry]

can't i raise it up a few tiers or is it that mainstream🥺

[foggy fractal]

nah its really obscure but also not that significant

I know of like 2 other cut sprites of characters in game

[stuck berry]

is it the pharloom bay guy

[foggy fractal]

no

we have cut sprites of FS
and cut sprites of Seth

[teal finch]

wait whats the verdania and sister splinter plants one

[stuck berry]

if you head back to those two locations where the boss is there will be a plant growing

[teal finch]

[stuck berry]

verdania's is just in the beta but i feel those are two similar to leave as distinct entries

[teal finch]

OHH the new patch stuff

ill have to look at it myself but i heard about it

[stuck berry]

also mimineko pfp 👁️

[foggy fractal]

for FS, Hornet doesn't bind her like where she does in bottom left in the game

and for Seth there seems to be a laying down sprite never used

[teal finch]

unbelievable how the greatest anime on earth just dropped just like that

[stuck berry]

ehhh is this not really small

[stuck berry]

do you know who my pfp is

[foggy fractal]

yeah, and I'm arguing that the lost lace attack is the same

[stuck berry]

yeah i got rid of that

[teal finch]

it looks familiar but i dont know the name

[stuck berry]

damn

was going to praise you for elite ball knowledge but you're just a TOURIST 😤

[teal finch]

im sorry 🥀

i do want to read the manga sometime though

[stuck berry]

watch nichijou it's the same manga author and animation studio and it's just as good as city if not better

[teal finch]

my partner loved nichijou and i understand it is a Classique so its also on my list

[edgy barn]

Doesn't that sprite of Hornet binding FS appear for a second during her fakeout defeat?

[stuck berry]

do you think i should even have the theories in the first place or nah

[foggy fractal]

no idea

but Hornet def doesn't bind fs like that

not to say that the sprites wasn't recycled for that though

[foggy fractal]

I think its fine

[teal finch]

personally i think one for canon stuff and one for theories is best because the normies reading the canon iceberg are going to explode over the deep stuff that is legitimate

but if its separate then an iceberg now would feel too soon

[stuck berry]

i only put theories that have a solid foundation evidence and that i can buy

maybe first sinner is atla is too inconsequential? iunno

[teal finch]

sorry whats atla in this context

[fresh igloo]

Who is atla

[teal finch]

oh

[fresh igloo]

Avatar the last Airbender?

[teal finch]

LMFAO no i get it like weavenest atla

[stuck berry]

there's a weaver effigy in the slab that speaks of an ancient weaver

[fresh igloo]

Oh, right

[stuck berry]

it's unlocked with the same key you unlock FS

[foggy fractal]

Carving of Atla, Weaver of time. A prayer is etched upon it.
"By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred. Weaver Atla, may you be praised eternal."

[stuck berry]

her name is sacred because she's the one who told them the truth about their relationship to GMS 🤔

[teal finch]

this is huge stocks for the "FS willingly imprisoned herself" -cels in the chat (me)

[edgy barn]

Could you explain it to me?

[high violet]

a Hollow Knight anime would go hard

whoops wrong channel

[stuck berry]

alright i think my iceberg looks pretty good now that some of the tiers can breathe

[teal finch]

my line of thinking originated from the slab likely being built after the citadel was, and trying to make sense of why FS is imprisoned there if that's the case, given that the citadel itself was built by the weavers

other people have various ideas on trying to piece together this loose end, so i considered the possibility that FS willingly imprisoned herself in the slab and that the prison tablet that is liekly meant to represent her (the first of the first thing, w apostasy being a crime) was written bc the weavers are just lying to the citadel bugs about why shes there.

which i feel is within the realm of possibility given that weavers just love spewing propaganda

[foggy fractal]

if she willingly imprisoned herself, and the whole apostaty was just lies then why is FS so mad about being lied to by GMS

seems like she was pretty guilty to me ? idk I got nothing

[teal finch]

next level hater

[stuck berry]

alright posting it to the sub here goes nothing

[foggy fractal]

here goes everything 😨

[stuck berry]

drakethetype

[foggy fractal]

I bet like over half of the sub won't know the last layer stuff

like who out here be knowing about the Organ Sleepers 😭

[teal finch]

its so good cause like so much of this is just accepted knowledge to us

[foggy fractal]

#sk-lore message

[foggy fractal]

my point is being proven right in front of me the Organ Sleepers are obscure as shit 😭

based on the file name the organ sleepers seem to be related to the memory of Phantom in the pod

yeah the assets that were used for the tube share the name organ sleeper

the first one seem related to Khann due to the coral,
second is nyleth cuz the hair
and third is karmelita because of the bones

the nyleth resemblance is the biggest

[covert tusk]

I need them to interact I know one’s mute but they’d just click I can feel it they’re the same person except one is yellow

[quick geyser]

GMS is a pale being? Now I’m curious, what makes the different between a normal higher being and pale being

[muted lantern]

So since hornet corrects Shakra on her age, and Shakra keeps calling her child wielding needle, is she just making fun of hornet at that point lol

Basically calling her pipsqueak

[stuck berry]

i think she's too focused on exploring to really care and hornet won't bother correcting about semantics since she has more important matters

[quick geyser]

I think it is because Hornet has such a youthful appearance that it makes her look like a child. But she does start calling Hornet by her name later into the game

[covert tusk]

And Hornet by proxy doing the same thing with Lace LMAO

[muted lantern]

I mean but in that instance hornets correct lol, considering lace calls herself a child too.

[stuck berry]

hornet is definitely a child if the lost lace journal entry and the caretaker's description of her are anything to go by

[covert tusk]

In a rather self deprecating way as she sees it as her only purpose in her life as GMS’s daughter so eh

[muted lantern]

Hornet?

[foggy fractal]

think they meant Lace

[muted lantern]

She's also stated to have the body and mind of a child by caretaker, who tends to be quite knowledgeable

[stuck berry]

LACE lace lace

when talking about this specifically i keep messing up the names lmao

[foggy fractal]

Shoe Lace

[covert tusk]

The caretaker has lied to us through omission via the snare idea and is generally shifty, plus Shakra is also pretty knowledgeable for general things and calls Hornet a child too

[muted lantern]

Terminal babyface

[muted lantern]

And is immediately corrected

[covert tusk]

And still calls her one after 😭

Wait this just makes me realize Hornet and Lace never exchange names LMAO

[stuck berry]

lace got lost to the void because lace fabric has little holes in them, little voids if you will 🤔

[quick geyser]

Now that I think about it, if my theory is true then Kratt is worse than he already was 😭

[foggy fractal]

uh oh

[covert tusk]

OH THAT JUST HIT ME WAIT

[foggy fractal]

Kratt is on THE list

[covert tusk]

OH MY GOD DID KRATT WANT HORNET FOR HER BABY FACE…..?

[muted lantern]

Another piece towards lace being a kid is she's called a silk spun child by the hunters journal, not the hornet part, but the omniscient narrator part

[stuck berry]

kratt's wild

[covert tusk]

KEEP KRATT AWAY FROM THE OTHER NON SPEAKING FLEAS

[quick geyser]

GET THIS BUG OUT OF HERE

[stuck berry]

if it makes you feel any better she can beat him into submission

[covert tusk]

Actually wait side note, it’s been bugging me
Is the big flea just like, naturally big? Cuz it’s found in the memorium, and other enlarged mutated enemies can be found there

Is the big flea a mutated flea or just naturally a big boy?

[stuck berry]

that's... actually a very good question

[muted lantern]

Typically pharloomers seem to see hornet as an adult, considering she's allowed to drink, and is treated as an adult by most, she's seen as a child by an incredibly old snail shaman and a woman from an isolated tribe of extremely tall Amazonian women

[stuck berry]

i can believe it

[covert tusk]

We never see any other like it either too so who knows

[muted lantern]

Kratt is still a freak creep that needs to be thrown in maggot water tho

[stuck berry]

memorium should've had a single enemy from lost verdania that dies forever if you kill it

[charred nimbus]

Kratt needs a one way passage to White palace

[timber pond]

I think Lost verdania dies before memorium is made lol

[muted lantern]

6 years deepnest

[charred nimbus]

There is Verdania things in Memorium

[stuck berry]

maybe this guy is ailing and malnourished

[covert tusk]

DUDE ACTUALLY IT DOES
Its a background element you can find in a cage in one room in a broken Verdania exhibit

[quick geyser]

Too bad memorium ran out of space 💔

[timber pond]

I thought it was only moss

[stuck berry]

you got a screenshot

[covert tusk]

GIMME A SEC

[charred nimbus]

The only one i know of are the spikes from Verdania that you find in memorium

[muted lantern]

Okay here's a real lore question, hornets has had mates before, but do we think she is good at flirting?

[timber pond]

Feel like Wormways is where Verdaina should be lol

But i get why wormways is there because of the Steps

[muted lantern]

I genuinely find it hard to picture hornet being good at flirting with people

[stuck berry]

no she sucks at it

[timber pond]

Idk probably pepole like Seth, She seems to enjoy being around seth when hes free

[stuck berry]

they love her because of her personality anyway

she never goes out of her way to be in a relationship it kind of just happens

[high violet]

oh lmao @foggy fractal i definitely know what the spider travel was used for, its used with the caravantula

[foggy fractal]

yeah that's the name

[muted lantern]

Hornet maybe was okay at flirting once but it's probably been centuries since her last relationship

[foggy fractal]

ok back to the iceberg, rename that to Cut Caravantula

[stuck berry]

hornet could be bug frieren

[quick geyser]

I’d like to think that her mates didn’t have the option to refuse
/J

[stuck berry]

too late posted it

[foggy fractal]

oh right

[stuck berry]

I'll update it after the dlcs come out

[foggy fractal]

its.... joever....

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[stuck berry]

oh damn

[stuck berry]

nooooo

[quick geyser]

Wormways was so boring 🤔😔

[stuck berry]

come back later

[foggy fractal]

wait we're so back

[muted lantern]

Hornet calling the giant flea marvelous is still funny to me

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/allmight-bnha-mha-meme-fist-up-gif-13588517052470008833

[stuck berry]

relax doomer it's called hopemaxxing

[quick geyser]

“I love fat bitches” said Hornet

[muted lantern]

I doubt she meant it like that lol, considering the fleas are babies

[quick geyser]

Of course

If I meant it THAT way that I would be a government watchlist rn

[covert tusk]

You’d be kratt if you meant that

[quick geyser]

We do not want be like Kratt

[muted lantern]

Dlc where we get to kill kratt

[stuck berry]

nightmare king kratt

[foggy fractal]

throw Kratt into the lava

that or void

[covert tusk]

Dude actually it’s surprising how there’s like, only 1 NPC we can kill through our actions in Silksong (Pilby)

Like every other death is destined vs the first game where you can just

Accidentally kill 90% of the side cast if you play right

Act 3 makes up for it I suppose 😭

[untold obsidian]

too bad he completely disappears after pilgrim's rest

Pilby deserved to be there with Sherma

[lethal burrow]

every DLC they will add him getting further and further until they eventually add a new ending once he gets past the Citadel to the cradle

[covert tusk]

I THOROUGHLY BELIEVE HE’S IN SONGCLAVE IMO

[sinful nimbus]

He gets compressed by the steel masters 😔

[covert tusk]

HE CANT JUST BE GONE

[untold obsidian]

can't wait to fight Grand Father Pilby

[stuck berry]

really i thought he appeared in the citadel somewhere

[quick geyser]

That is actually what happened, I can confirm

[stuck berry]

i might be wrong but is gms the only character in the hkverse with fi gers

no surely thk and grimm have them

[untold obsidian]

quirrel has them

(in the comic)

[charred nimbus]

Alright, hear me out, Flea games makes no sense, like, are you telling me that Vog has the record for the flea dodge

[foggy fractal]

nah lots of characters have fingers

even qurriel has fingers

[charred nimbus]

But bro, Vog literally throws shit at you in Flea dodge, that's cheating

Does the Vog throws shit part don't exist for him?

[foggy fractal]

forge daughter also has fingers

[foggy fractal]

he has them in game too

[untold obsidian]

Vog just tanked all the fleas and only fell out of sportsmanship

[sinful nimbus]

Some HK characters move so fast it looks like teleporting so she teleports to throw a spear and then teleports back to dodge it, duh

[lucid fossil]

Him??? I thought vog was a her 😭

this game confuses me with gender wtf do u mean sherma is a guy…

[scenic stirrup]

Do u guys know if u could kill gron before the signis and gron boss fight? Bc he sometimes appears in the room before the fight

[sinful nimbus]

He doesn't take damage there pretty sure

[unreal estuary]

I thought I killed him there and then he came back

[lucid fossil]

I think his ai isnt active there

[foggy fractal]

doesn't he just jump away though

[unreal estuary]

It actually made me think he was a regular enemy

[foggy fractal]

does he even have a hit box

[lucid fossil]

Oh wait you’re talking about the non fight

[scenic stirrup]

Ive hit him a couple times and gotten silk

[lethal burrow]

they are

[lucid fossil]

Yeah it’s not possible I think, I’ll try it later with a debug mod