sk-lore

[fathom hill]

Mod didn't like talking politics

[torn lagoon]

uh duckie wants me to tell you guys he's muted

[vestal swan]

Mask maker valid takes and lore:

[edgy nebula]

groal uses they/them in his journal and hes probably a guy... i think.. idk

[sinful nimbus]

We didn't mass mute every politics discussion in prime #sk-discussion

[edgy nebula]

hoyyyyy

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong recontextualizes Mask Makers to be talking about crests

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-npc-caretaker-waving-gif-1296244235196704295

[sinful nimbus]

Which is interesting

[torn lagoon]

im just joking, I think Hornet just doesn't know the gender of bugs hence the they

[vestal swan]

Crests?

Why did autocorrect change that

[spark valve]

does it tho

[vestal swan]

As I hit enter

[spark valve]

hk mm was always talking about the concept of a self

[sinful nimbus]

I suppose

[edgy nebula]

The vision refers to mask makers abilities to see the "true self" of a bug or whatever the fuck that means, i dont think that relates to crests

[sinful nimbus]

In universe crests are the nature of a bug and their burdens

[vestal swan]

I guess if you stretch it crests are also like a sample of their soul, but like he's not making crests so what are you on about

[torn lagoon]

you know my dumbass who hadn't seen what mask maker looked look in a while thought the skong one was the same guy and was disappointed when i looked at the actual image of hk1 one, but narratively yeah mask maker wouldn't come to pharloom anyway

[spark valve]

That is what crests are

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Maker masks now literally alter the minds of a bug
I don't like it but

[vestal swan]

Nah

[torn lagoon]

the only character we see from the old game in real time is the knight and void beings correct?

[vestal swan]

Just sounds like a crazy hermit

[torn lagoon]

and mushroom

[sinful nimbus]

Ahh. Old One. Your kind should know it's rude to expose me such. Unmasked, the task becomes heavy

Hornet: I had the desire to hear you lucid, Maker, though you may protest.

[vestal swan]

I don't remember anything him saying being a definitive

[edgy nebula]

fuuh what are crests lorewise again, all i know is how theyre made

[fallow rose]

is that not how it always was? when we took off the mask of the grimm troupe member (idr his name) he completely forgot that he was a part of the grimm troupe

[sinful nimbus]

Even Hornet knows that its changed

[sinful nimbus]

That's not made by Mask Maker

[fathom hill]

interesting add to the discussion

[sinful nimbus]

Magic masks have always existed we now know that Mask Maker made masks are also magic

[fathom hill]

You saying that mask makers are bsing their role in a bugs identity?

[vestal swan]

Is your entire commentary going to be on what I say?

[edgy nebula]

grimm troupe masks seem to be special in a way, i dont think we ever really see a mask altering someone's appearance after brumm

[timber pond]

All masks are magic. Otherwise you get the crickets on the surface

[vestal swan]

Inflating it yeah

[sinful nimbus]

No?

[vestal swan]

I think a lot of characters BS their roles

[sinful nimbus]

Masks are headwear that may or may not have magical enchantments

[fathom hill]

What abt the styx dialogue though, is he not in the process of choosing a mask/identity

[edgy nebula]

he might just be a cosplayer or something

[vestal swan]

Is he, I thought that was just prey he had, his song once you get into his nest isn't really about identity it's about just him being submissive, that's his whole identity

[edgy nebula]

has anyone silk soared up to styx's den in steel soul? i wanna see if anythings different

[vestal swan]

What kind of differences does steel soul actually do

[timber pond]

If masks make bugs define and exist as Hollow knight 1 mask maker even states, then yeah. Without masks a bugs mind is simple and incomplete.

[torn lagoon]

do we know what happened to huntress after act 3? did her kin eat her even after i gave her all that MEAT.

[fathom hill]

why are you so pressed on everything man loosen up

[fathom hill]

we see his body, not his face

[timber pond]

Whole quest about Steel City and its masters

[sinful nimbus]

"Mask" refers to crests in that context

[lofty crane]

Some of it was even cooked

[fathom hill]

"Who am I" is pretty explicit

[vestal swan]

??? Why would we not see his face

[edgy nebula]

adds a new npc who kills styx and gives you rosaries for silkeaters

[edgy nebula]

skynx took it, presumably

[fathom hill]

Do you even know what am i talking abt, the needolin memorie up his nest?

[vestal swan]

Wait I'm confused who are we talking about

[fathom hill]

Styx

[vestal swan]

Yeah no I'm talking about the guy that gives you silk eaters

[fathom hill]

Styx is that guy

[sinful nimbus]

That is styx

[fallow rose]

i thought the mask was just hiding brumm's original face all along so when its taken off we see his true appearance rather than the appearance changing

[vestal swan]

Ok, I think I've only registered his name once and then forgot it

[edgy nebula]

styx is dead in steel soul, i wanna see in his den to see if any masks are missing or summin

[timber pond]

Look man, the games don't give me a reason to magically suspect they are 2 diffrent things😭 . Crests are masks and masks are crests.

[fathom hill]

[sinful nimbus]

That is what I said yes

[half cobalt]

does hornet have a mask on? we see her when shes little, she still has the same facial thing but smaller? do masks grow along with the person?

[fathom hill]

I always imagined it was yeah

[vestal swan]

But anyway most of his song is just him deciding to be submissive, none of the songs suggests he wants to be anything else? Unless I like forgot a whole verse? I can't remember what songs I heard in full because I didn't always have silk on me when I listened

[edgy nebula]

she calls her face a mask so yeah

this guy is such a bum

[sinful nimbus]

Masks can alter a bugs crest that does not mean you need a literal mask to have any form of sapience which is obviously not the case

[fathom hill]

Everyone that has a white face seems to be a mask, while everyone with a black face may not, like the lettuce enemy guys or lace or the mask maker

[vestal swan]

Mask is interchangeable with face the same way shell and armor are

[half cobalt]

so, does like the mask maker, makes one for every baby tht needs a mask?

[timber pond]

If you find the secret room full of diffrent masks ,you get the diolouge that suggests the masks change his personality

With silk soar

[vestal swan]

Everybody keeps telling me that but nobody's giving me the quote, I remember something different

[fathom hill]

We aren't talking about the same thing mate

[vestal swan]

Yes I'm talking about the room above him

[timber pond]

"Who is me?"

[vestal swan]

Did they hook up the sequel to The wikibot yet

[edgy nebula]

i wanna see if theres anything different in steel soul mode though

[torn lagoon]

im assuming the courier bros give away the maker's masks?

[vestal swan]

Imagine they just put metal spikes on the ceiling

[fresh igloo]

Silksong? More like... Bile song

[sinful nimbus]

[[Styx]]

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Styx

[fresh igloo]

Imagine if they make spikes one shot you

[half cobalt]

lots of mask to make, hope he made a bank

[sinful nimbus]

OK it has but there isn't needolin dialogue there

[edgy nebula]

i do wonder why skynx took styx's face

[fresh igloo]

They're related?

[sinful nimbus]

Skynx seems to only be capable of communication through mimicry

[edgy nebula]

yeah skynx has styx's mask on upside down

it is also heavily implied he killed him

[vestal swan]

I was about to say am I completely missing it

[stray wing]

is skynx really not styx

[woven vine]

Given the shamans' attitude, I didn't think they would cooperate and sacrifice like that.

[torn lagoon]

you know with how much silksong places emphasis on the whole how greymoor and people get their food i don't know how characters like the pilgrims or the imprisoned green prince survive

[edgy nebula]

the only dialogue not directly mimicked from hornet or styx is "My reward"

[fathom hill]

Also there's like an identical mask up there, like copy pasted identical

[vestal swan]

Wait wtf I thought y'all were typoing when you said skynx lol

[edgy nebula]

no you see styx's dead body in the room next to him

[timber pond]

Well, not counting the pale kings beacon of enlightenment in hallownest, if you don't have a mask you either are an animal, or are really really slow.

[sinful nimbus]

Its a steel soul character (Totally a nosk fr fr)

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[fathom hill]

Styx-> default
Skynx-> Steel

[vestal swan]

A nosk that decides to talk would be scary

[half cobalt]

steel soul doesnt need silk eaters so, theres a different npc

[stray wing]

i know it's a steel soul character, it's also just an inverted mask

[light mauve]

Is it explained what gms is in act 2 of act 3?

[vague jolt]

well green prince is like, a step below a higher being so he can prob go long periods without eating

[vestal swan]

I'm glad he wasn't a retconned huntress

[edgy nebula]

skynx might be nosk might be somethign else

[vague jolt]

???
act 2 of act 3??

[light mauve]

Or*

[half cobalt]

act 2

[fathom hill]

I've heard this said before but I don't see it other than well the use of anothers mask for your own face

[timber pond]

Tuk from royal waterways and boon from the quriel prequel comic are the same bug but the one from the comic can barely string together any coherent thought and is very slow. While Tuk who is near hallownest is very intelligent.

[light mauve]

So what is grand mother silk then?

[sinful nimbus]

Said mask is also upside down

[torn lagoon]

i know this is the ss lore channel but what the fuck was nosk about what are they even

[stray wing]

they talk the same

[half cobalt]

a pale being?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes one is in the middle of nowhere its not going to be very eloquent

[fathom hill]

Yeah but not for styx

[light mauve]

Ohh

[vestal swan]

Creepy mimic spider monster

[sinful nimbus]

Also Mask Maker doesn't say you need a mask to be eloquent

[edgy nebula]

i dont see why

1. hed speak
2. hed have to steal styx's mask
3. he doesnt trick us with someone else

[half cobalt]

like pale king, whitelady

[sinful nimbus]

Yes for Skynx

[edgy nebula]

hed be the kindest nosk ever to talk to us and ask us for free food

[timber pond]

Yeah, if you don't have a mask and are in the wastes, it seems you start to lose yourself. You need a mask to define and to Focus.

[fathom hill]

Yeah and styx and skynx are different, we do not have the contextualization of "Who is me?" needolin with skynx

[fallow rose]

random question does anyone remember the names of the locations the citadel travelled to, to find part weavers, like steel city was mentioned and icr the rest 🙏

[sinful nimbus]

Where are you getting this from

[vestal swan]

Maybe I should actually give steel soul a try, there's no trophy for it on Playstation though but 2 sp**drun ones

[torn lagoon]

thanks, ari.

[edgy nebula]

blackbarrens was one

[sinful nimbus]

Boon isn't implied to be a bad wordsmith because he doesn't have a mask

Or because he's outside of the beacon

[fallow rose]

oh yes ty

[torn lagoon]

lucky there's 2 TROPHIES FOR IT ON STEAM

[vestal swan]

Who brought up Boon?

[fathom hill]

[edgy nebula]

blackbarrens are the wastes to the right of the far fields weavernest i presume

[light mauve]

Ye I understand

[fathom hill]

There are, like in hk

[stray wing]

i think it's just styx being weird and that "corpse" is just a molten shell, styx is a weird cicada of sorts

[vestal swan]

I would rather have the steel trophies, cursed ending is one of them. speaking of trophies do we get any lore bits or clarifications from them that we have noticed?

[stray wing]

styx has a bunch of masks in that secret room also

[torn lagoon]

i did hk steel soul i still dont wanna go try again for it on skong yet, it's stressfull and i've played the first hour of the game like 2 times already it's boring

[sinful nimbus]

Steel Soul puts you in a gauntlet with 2 damage enemies while you have 4 masks It also resets your tools and crest

[fathom hill]

the mushroom achievos are in full color, implying they are from outside the world

[vestal swan]

Some of the other ones have color?

[fathom hill]

Which is also validated by the fact the herald references castlevania and other tc games

[vestal swan]

I guess they are monochrome though

[fathom hill]

yeah I said full color

[timber pond]

Mask maker from hollow knight 1? Also the fact that hornet calls the wastes a "Void" and its implied by many tablets in the first game that common bugs (some very Likely without masks) will lose thier self if they leave the realms of hallownest. This is likely the same everywhere until you get in the range of a pale being/higher monarchs influence.

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Makers talk about crests

[vestal swan]

Yes that was me acknowledging you were correct when I thought about the other ones

[sinful nimbus]

Those tablets say nothing about masks

You lose sapience if you got it from Hallownest and leave Hallownest

[vestal swan]

Man I thought the lore was supposed to get answered not become more convoluted and spawn even more insane ideas

[torn lagoon]

went through them and not really but steam only has 30% of people getting the first and easy ending that is NUTS.

[fathom hill]

That happens when a game like hk has all their lore hidden, abstract or made for interpretation

[vestal swan]

I know they like being vague but some of this shit needs to be clarified for Arceus sake

[fathom hill]

It answers partly but most of it is kept unanswered

[half cobalt]

k am confused abt this thing, in HK, ppl were saying the pale king gave other bugs self awareness, was that just pale king propaganda?

[fathom hill]

Still I like the fact that we could expand on wth is the void and the mask ideas

Also the shaman people

[vestal swan]

We don't have perfect examples of bugs actually benefiting from the beacon but nothing outright says it was a lie, and the whiplash is shown to exist suggesting it was real

[timber pond]

Even If crests and masks aren't the same thing (masks maker the first dosent mention them) im pretty sure new mask maker says that masks are based on crests anyway.

[sinful nimbus]

I am literally saying masks and crests are the same thing

[half cobalt]

shown where tho?

[fathom hill]

It seems to be yeah, he also talks about the first and last eternal civilization, but pharloom not only is older, but hallownest died while pharloom is yet ok lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Mask maker is talking about your sense of self not sapience

[torn lagoon]

damn i've been surfing this channel for a few hours now, that's crazy imma go do something bye guys!

[fathom hill]

So yeah the pale king was just a big liar or he really believed his kingdom would be eternal, so at best ignorant

[vestal swan]

Quirrel experiences some effects but is seemingly protected by the dreamer mask, and Boon likely might have wandered from inside the kingdom

[half cobalt]

wait is it confirmed pharloom is older?

[vestal swan]

A bit of both

[fathom hill]

Bye take care

[half cobalt]

who is boon?

[vestal swan]

Saying things like he's the last Kingdom is just complete bs, and the don't leave part would be cautionary for the people that started off there but just an outright lie to any visitors

[vestal swan]

The character from the Quirrel comic we see just outside the kingdom

[half cobalt]

propaganda

[half cobalt]

there are comics?

[vestal swan]

Just one

[fathom hill]

I'm sure the mere presence of the weavers confirms this, though they appeared shortly after in hallownest

[timber pond]

I think he wanted it to stand eternal, so saying its the last kingdom was more of a wish than a truth, and one he was confident in. There must be a reason why he said this as well. He probably knows this kingdom thing dosent go well for his pale kin.

[vestal swan]

It's about Quirrel coming back at the start of the game

[half cobalt]

ah fair

[half cobalt]

what is it called?[the comic]

[vestal swan]

Knowing that there's other things out there that could possibly match his feat for keeping a kingdom going and still declaring that he's going to be the last is insane ngl, like he probably has siblings or something out there and he's just saying he's the best

[fathom hill]

So yeah the pale king was onto nothing really

[timber pond]

Ok yeah I agree with this. It's more about a "filling a Role" than having a mind

[fathom hill]

[shell vessel]

So who are the pilgrims actually? They don't really seem to inhabit any of the areas around the citadel (except bone bottom and even that serves as an intermediary stop, not a home). Do they come from beyond pharloom? Is the citadel of their making?

[vestal swan]

I don't remember if it has a name specifically but somebody in here might be able to link it to you

[vestal swan]

I'd say they come from the waste above except the fact that they don't come in from the top

[half cobalt]

wasnt he the last worm? [i mean we could be mistaken but still]

[vestal swan]

He was said to be, but that could also be bardoon talking about them no longer having their big bodies

[fathom hill]

it seems they are from beyond pharloom at first, but giving the silk inside them is generational maybe not the ones from the game

[timber pond]

The choral commandment implies he IS "THE White Wyrm" other wyrms are probably not like him

[vestal swan]

Yeah that's a really weird one

[fathom hill]

The ones we see are haunted though, so maybe that's different

[timber pond]

And othe pale beings have all been uniqe thusfar

[vestal swan]

The common idea is that each one is a different color with a different ability set, but also having foresight.

[fathom hill]

But the caretaker does say the silk inside their bodies is generational so they must have been born in pharloom

Maybe the ailk in their bodies makes them more prone to haunting

Easier to control

[vestal swan]

Yeah that's what's really weird, like if they were coming from a specific area that would also make sense but there's no giant village of pilgrims

[fathom stirrup]

we also know from HK lore that there was a "battle of the black wyrm" which reinforces this

[half cobalt]

now it begs the question are pale beings just shiny versions of normal bugs

[vestal swan]

Maybe a settlement right outside pharloom full of descendants?

[frosty juniper]

Anyone have any idea what hornet’s tummy aches are? I don’t think was ever resolved

[regal crow]

That thing at the end of great taste of pharloom, is that gms?

[timber pond]

Yeah, but it dosent seem like those wyrms share his idealistic society where he shows mercy on lower creatures.😂 . So no matter what even if his dream was impossible, he still wanted to make it work because he knows how fucked everyone else is

[vestal swan]

Actually Mr mushroom dialogue suggests that they all do like to set up kingdoms

[fathom stirrup]

she fell from the blasted steps to bone bottom

[fathom hill]

I don't even know if pale beings are considered bugs, given Hornet herself says that she is only oart bug/mostly bug

[half cobalt]

if they cimbed up to the citadel, why would the decendants be at the bottom?, unless, they leave the citadel once the pilgrim is over

[fathom hill]

Pale beings are really powerful entities that have power over bugs if anything

[timber pond]

I don't think its wyrms, I think its Pale Beings. Seeing as grandmother silk has some of that desire

[vestal swan]

Well it's because she's part of a species that is not considered bug, not the designation pale I think

[fathom hill]

Is god a human is the question I'd guess

[fathom stirrup]

prob not

[vestal swan]

Well when he made a tiny body to rule over the bugs they still didn't call him a bug

Wyrm dna

[fathom hill]

I always imagined it as being "I'm part bug" by the weaver part, since those weren't pale beings

[fathom stirrup]

I mean even other higher/pale beings arent necessarily bugs

[fathom hill]

Weavers were mutilated and changed bugs but idk if Hornet even considers it when saying that

[vestal swan]

What, you think she doesn't consider Weaver's bugs?

[shell vessel]

I think it's more of a poetic thing. Like there's this single wyrm, but making it plural makes it sound like it just continuously happens, which reflects mr.Mushroom's view of the world where he is just the spectator

[fathom hill]

yah

[vestal swan]

That doesn't make sense, why would he poetically change the history that he has seen? He's an observer he watches the end of things

[fathom hill]

They defo are, but weavers as we get to know them were created by gms

[half cobalt]

i mean we dont have arachnid classification in game so she is just a part bug ig

[vestal swan]

Yeah, I could see her thinking of it like an abomination but I wouldn't say not a bug?

[fathom hill]

As I said mutilated bugs, but bugs nonetheless I'd guess

[fathom hill]

Yeap

That's why I said idk if Hornet would even consider her weaver part as the non bug part

She is talking about her pale blood

[timber pond]

Bro only exists in the present as he says and half of his yap is nonsense . Not exactly the most reliable narrator of events. He is like the slot machine of wisdom.

[frosty juniper]

Yeah but she also gets it in act 3 and can fall that distance in game without much issue - it comes across to me as more affliction than say exhaustion

[elfin minnow]

Where do silkflies go after a robot is destroyed? Are they free? Will they inhabit another body?

[fathom hill]

The fact that Hornet can talk mushroom is so funny to me

[foggy fractal]

https://cdn.pidgi.net/images/b/b4/Comic_First_Chapter_Quirrel_-_Hollow_Knight.pdf

[fathom hill]

Who even taught her, is she self taught? She does seem to know the guy

[fathom stirrup]

i need to remind myself when it happened in act 3 but in act 1 she was sealed in a cage and transported for however long i think it makes sense to have some pains

[half cobalt]

yoo thanks mate

[fathom hill]

Hornet is very sensible and respectful to others culture, giving how she takes the poshanka taunt so easily so could be self taught

[half cobalt]

id assume, mr mushroom knows more than 1 language

[fathom stirrup]

Hear me out what if mr mushroom is speaking the language that the bug knows and in the first game is speaking void language

[fathom hill]

In hk we can only talk to him with a certain charm though

Hornet can talk to him just fine

[vestal swan]

I didn't even realize damn

[fathom hill]

Also Hornet says that she knows many languages or something

[vestal swan]

Hornet a better linguist than TK and they traveled first

[half cobalt]

i mean, even in silk song, we can only talk to him after we get to that secret room in putrified ducts, maybe tht has something to do with it

[vestal swan]

Also possibly TK taught her mushroom

Or maybe she learned it while the tribe was alive in hollownest

[fathom stirrup]

is TK supposed to be the knight?

[edgy nebula]

hornet can talk mushroom but not ant

[vestal swan]

Yes

[half cobalt]

dont think they had time but ye sure y not

[fathom stirrup]

how would the knight teach her

my guy cant talk

[fathom hill]

don't think they have met each other since the ending of hk, bro was occupied in the void

Also the knight doesn't talk mushroom

[vestal swan]

There's a massive time skip in between the first game and the second game, hornet implies a lot of traveling and other horrors happened.

[fathom stirrup]

true we still dont know what happened with the HK

[vestal swan]

You're right they don't really talk but with the mushroom charm they can understand it

[fathom hill]

I'd say this is more a video game matter than anything, he does say he gets there when something grand is going to happen or something

[half cobalt]

the sequel yes

[fathom stirrup]

?

[fathom hill]

Giving how he only appears in act 3, he is sensing the fall of gms

To the void at that point, after we save lace

[half cobalt]

hollow knight 3 comming out in 2036

[fathom stirrup]

theres 0 shot theres gonna be a HK game

[fathom hill]

All the guys in 2080 after the dlc of pablo is out

[fathom stirrup]

mf way too lanky

[vestal swan]

Maybe they heard hornet yelling and it echoed through the void, TK wasn't connected to that void directly. How TK knew that Hornet needed help is actually kind of weird

[fathom stirrup]

maybe as a prequel to the first game

[half cobalt]

hmm have to wonder if the "grand thing" means the fall of a pale being or abyss take over

[fathom stirrup]

but thatd be weird

[half cobalt]

a doubter r u

[vestal swan]

Apparently making the game work for hornet who is only slightly taller took a lot of work, imagine making of the third game for thk. That would take 30 years

[half cobalt]

time to go 3d bois

[fathom hill]

everytime we get a taller protagonist lmao

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think a THK game would be very good, its story is concluded

[fathom stirrup]

i believe more in hollow knight pablo then a sequel game based on HK

im more interested in what the DLCs gonna be cause we still havent seen that one kickstarter character

[fathom hill]

Yah but tc said the next game will probably not be in the hk universe no?

[fathom stirrup]

yeah i think so

[fathom hill]

They did say they may be working years on silksong still too

[half cobalt]

we saw at the pantheon end, thk and hornet were facing off so...uk

[fathom hill]

So the silksong content is not over yet

[fathom stirrup]

no its not we are 100% gonna get dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe will be peak

[fathom stirrup]

like someway to fight all the bosses

[half cobalt]

never liked him

[sinful nimbus]

🥀

[fathom stirrup]

He aint even done anything

[timber pond]

Bring it on I don't care. Team cherry can't make a cliffhanger being like "WhAt WilL HapPEn to HoRnEt And THE HOLLOW KNIGHT?!" and then NOT fucking tell me what happens to him. Ill play the game when im 60 years old IDC

[half cobalt]

long ass nose

[fathom stirrup]

i feel like thatll be the other DLC

[sinful nimbus]

ETV is a bad ending and there is nothing thematically satisfying THK can do other than go to the abyss as a shade

[fathom stirrup]

valid

[fathom hill]

||Act 4: The pale knight||

[shell vessel]

So anyway, who actually built the Citadel and why? It's the weavers that (allegedly) imprisoned GMS in a cocoon and all of citadel's branding is a styalized version of the cocoon as we encounter it. And yet it doesn't make sense for them to build it, nor inhabit it.

Then there are pilgrims, who seem to actually rule and inhabit the citadel. However what' weird is their possession of silk. There doesn't seem to have been any interaction between them and weavers, and GMS originally only made the weavers, who had the ability to produce silk themselves. This is a direct opposite to what citadel is doing, where much focus is on reusing silk, again implying weavers are either extinct or simply not connected to any of this.

So how is this possible, exactly?

[fathom hill]

Act 4: Hollow knight silksong

[lucid dirge]

guys i just saw a theory on twitter and after researching more about it im starting to think greyroot is unironically zotes mom

[fathom stirrup]

</3

[lucid dirge]

temu knight comes from temu white lady

[fathom stirrup]

wait crazy theory

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers ruled over the Citadel and its pilgrims for a while then the Conductors took over

[spark valve]

Weavers built it to keep gms asleep then it changed hands

[foggy fractal]

they can
fearless fox after silksong les go !!!

hello Tammo

[timber pond]

They said that 6 years ago and they also said "ALL ENDINGS ARE CANNON GUYS!" Which clearly , they changed thier mind on. Willa said he could draw for silksong for another 7 years and be happy 😅

[fathom hill]

I can get behind this honestly

[vestal swan]

They did say that, but we have a potential 10 years of DLC...

[novel night]

oo where does this happen?

[fathom stirrup]

what if the next DLC theyre gonna make is actually for the first hollow knight where we play as hornet that starts taking place from the cutscene

[vestal swan]

Various hornet dialogues talking about her past

[fathom hill]

Haha could be

[novel night]

do you remember where though 😭 ?

[vestal swan]

Not specifically no sorry

[foggy fractal]

erm its Ari who makes the art not will !!!

[fathom stirrup]

I remember her talking about her past at hallownest but nothing inbetweent hat

[vestal swan]

Once the wiki has all of it I'll be able to find dialogue easier

[foggy fractal]

best I can give you is all silksong text take it or leave it https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWZMaeHiBTY1D6P2cuO929M0iXIYTXdeMifmLQ71sA/edit?tab=t.0

[fathom hill]

idk if she mentions any travelling

[fathom stirrup]

yeah if she does i dont remember it

[fathom hill]

She does mention that she has seen lifeblood and void before obviously

[novel night]

woah.. the bible

[vestal swan]

Surely my brain didn't create dialogue again did it.... My memory is disgustingly unreliable

[timber pond]

They both equally do art aperently. It's just ari is better at it and actualizes Williams ideas

[fathom hill]

And that some mistakes she has seen happen before (Lace/the knight parallels)

[foggy fractal]

you can do ctrl + f to make the search easier

[foggy fractal]

so Ari's doing the art

[timber pond]

Just go read the Jason schrier interview man idk what to tell you😂

[fathom hill]

Wait this is actually so useful

[lucid dirge]

GREY prince zote
sword made out of shellwood
weird precept about "jealousy of fathers" and "moms will always betray you"
acts like a parasite in game, would make sense if he was genuinely a parasite
random precept that just sounds like the fire enemies from wisp thicket??????????

GREY ROOT
literally the same species as white lady (root)
OBSESSED with breeding and birth
lives in SHELLWOOD
BOTH WHITE LADY AND GREYROOT HAVE NURSERIES (one in bilewater , the other in the white palace)
if this is true it also makes sense why zote looks similar to the knight while not being a vessel and coming from another kingdom , he literally comes from the dollar store version of white lady

[fathom hill]

I have so much dialogue in the back of my head but since the wiki ain't finished it's hard to check it again

[lucid dirge]

ZOTEROOTERSSSSSSSS RISEEEEEEEEEE

[novel night]

truth nuke

[lyric widget]

All Silksong text updated for the latest patch https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ee0O2Dm3zl9gK-s-TRfu3brCSMPlOYdBZIqBpA76Iys/edit?usp=sharing

[lucid dirge]

it just makes too much sense

[foggy fractal]

its all we got 😔

[lyric widget]

should have joined the wiki discord

[lucid dirge]

also he made his sword when he was young so obviously he was born in pharloom since i doubt young zote could have travelled outside the kingdom he was born in by himself

[shell vessel]

Cannon, as in a thing that shoots balls at you.

It's actually a funny trick, where act 2 ending is entirely possible with Infection hk ending, whereas Act 3 take place after True/godhome endings. So it's kinda all first endings vs all true endings situation.

[fathom stirrup]

how would he even get to hallownest though

[lucid dirge]

literally luck

the only reason he survives hk is because hes lucky to run into you every single time

[fathom stirrup]

good point

[foggy fractal]

I don't remember the interview saying William did the art
I'm not saying he doesn't do any of the designs, just that Ari is the one who gets those ideas in game

[lyric widget]

adjusted the text of my message since it's pinned now

[fathom stirrup]

Im lowkey on board

[lucid dirge]

NOW THE PROBLEM IS

who is his father? clearly another higher being if it survived greyroots parasite and zote managed to spend time with him for a while

[fathom stirrup]

hmm

[vestal swan]

Hey sumwan wiki question, are some of the needlolin dialogues just in the wrong place or not implemented yet? Styxs is missing I think

[foggy fractal]

my bad I get everything through Godfriend and I don't see them everyday

[lucid dirge]

also weird line about "ill kill a thousand more... will that be enough for you , father?" from zote which i thought was just him being edgy but now idk 😭

[lyric widget]

some might not be implemented yet, we also need to test them in-game to see if they're actually used

[fathom stirrup]

some sort of blood thirsty father

[timber pond]

I think its the sentence where he says "i had to stop drawing or it would take us 15 years" you can look it up and see if its ari that said it, I think its William though

[lucid dirge]

blackwyrm father CONFIRMED

[fathom stirrup]

what if its the guy that makes the silk cocoons?

[lyric widget]

Styx's dialogue is on his page

[lucid dirge]

would be absolutely hilarious if zotes dad is also the dollar store version of pk

[foggy fractal]

“I remember at some point I just had to stop sketching,” Gibson said. “Because I went, ‘Everything I’m drawing here has to end up in the game. That’s a cool idea, that’s in. That’s a cool idea, that’s in.’ You realize, ‘If I don’t stop drawing, this is going to take 15 years to finish.’”

[lucid dirge]

but i doubt it

[lyric widget]

under the dialogue tab

[vestal swan]

Ah right
Is there really that much unused stuff in the files

[foggy fractal]

its from Ari

[fathom stirrup]

I do remember seeing something in SS that i thought looked alot like the paths left by the wyrm in HK

[shell vessel]

Wait a goddamn second.
So are pale beings just like... albinos of their species? Like not a caste of gods, but simply unique individuals where it just so happens them being "pale" is bound with them having more power?

[vestal swan]

The bit that's not there is the song from his secret room

[lyric widget]

there's not that much tbh, but there is a whole file called "deprecated" which has a ton of cut dialogue

[vestal swan]

Dang

[lyric widget]

probably here https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Needolin_Locations#Sinner's_Road

[lucid dirge]

i think that wyrm and root are all ascended species (greyroot is strong enough to subdue hornet and her bud is strong enough to consume gms and hornet once weakened enough) but pale beings are probably special in some other way

[foggy fractal]

the cut content wiki page will be juicy

[timber pond]

Ok then you are right. My point still stands though that I don't think they will ever be done with hollow knight lol. They seem to be having a good time, and have made a bugillion dollars. They have no reason to lol.

[foggy fractal]

Sumwan are you aware of the cut organ sleepers

[fathom stirrup]

could pale beings be normal higherbeings that took in soul?

[lyric widget]

ye there's already quite a bit on there

[lethal burrow]

Twitter always be stealing our ideas

[lyric widget]

I think we have something about that on the cut content page

[lethal burrow]

smh

[foggy fractal]

yeah I didn't even realise there was cut/changed music until I looked at the wiki page

[vestal swan]

Masks above Styx's web:
"Who to be?
Who is me?
The one who serves...
The one who breeds...
The one to fear...
My strength or theirs
@fathom hill
Here we go, it does appear I misremembered this too

[timber pond]

There's a backer chracter that's needs to arrive in some form still, Sharpe who they teased in 2017 lol

[shell vessel]

or perhaps they are just born with excessive soul production???

[lucid dirge]

note down the nursery stuff and the fact that his precepts are about his mom and dad being shitty (and the precept that sounds like wisp thicket lmfao???)

[vestal swan]

I know about some of the bigger things that are missing, I was just curious about the piles of dialogue

[fathom hill]

yah yah and you see how the body seems to not have a face, that means he is talking abt choosing a mask for himself

[fathom stirrup]

do we know the relation between silk and soul?

[fathom hill]

Which makes me think if the huntress and him are even of the same species, this is the first time we see a character struggling with choosing a mask

[edgy nebula]

skynx presumably took the mask from his body

[fathom hill]

Which is really interesting

[lyric widget]

most cut text should be here https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cut_Content_(Silksong)#Cut_Text. I also put the cut text in italics in my all text doc

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if "The one to fear..." is referring to skynx

[timber pond]

Sure I suppose, but if anything takes place after, they now have to acount for the ending of this game. Cause events are far more diffrent

[foggy fractal]

yeah they aren't showing any signs of stopping its kinda of the opposite where they're excited to continue making it
whether or not this stance changes once they're done with Silksong dlcs we'll have to see though

[fathom hill]

Could be though since he talks about a lot of stuff he is maybe seeing his options

[lucid dirge]

i genuinely dont know im gonna be honest im thinking its just some weird soul adjacent thing but i didnt research enough about it

[fathom stirrup]

I think its like a different way to channel soul

[fathom hill]

Styx maybe was dealing with feelings of being weak already by that point so maybe deciding to have a strong facade would fix it

[fathom stirrup]

like soul is the pure energy form but some species can channel it into silk to do more things

[lucid dirge]

im thinking that too since hornet can just get silk from enemies that arent haunted by it

[fathom hill]

Seems he didnt choose it though

[vestal swan]

Silk is a magical medium, not a magic itself. Other creatures can have non-enchanted silk, weavers were made with it as a part of themself

[lucid dirge]

yeah that makes sense

[fathom stirrup]

so soul runs through silk?

[lucid dirge]

like soul is just the pure shit

[foggy fractal]

wiki people has their work cut out for them lmao

[fathom stirrup]

and silk cahnnels it

[timber pond]

Well i don't think so, because they did the same shit they did with the weavernest (twice fold) in this game where they leave another origin vauge. With the steel soul content and Grey root explicitly.

[fathom stirrup]

which means that the one pale being we see use abilities does infact use soul

[timber pond]

Seth main chracter game would be goated

[novel night]

those poor mossgrubs 😭

[fathom stirrup]

so its possible the Pale beings are higher beings imbued with soul theory is right

[fathom hill]

Also seths mask is fun cuz the mask above his face looks the same as his normal face

[foggy fractal]

they don't have to expand on those things

[fathom hill]

Taking a hat off to reveal the same hat under

[lucid dirge]

steel soul probably got cut and is being repurposed for dlc since they started working on it before the game even released and they just wanted to get the main story stuff out

and about the weavernests idk what u mean

[fathom hill]

Seth reminds me a lot of quirrel which also can confirm this a bit

[lucid dirge]

we get plenty of weaver lore this game and the weavernests dont really make me think of anything that isnt explained

[fathom hill]

Giving how both seem to have problems with memory, both used to serve one of the bug (big) three in both games

[lucid dirge]

(or that needs to be explained)

[timber pond]

Yeah well, they didn't HAVE to expand on weavernest either. Lol.

[lucid dirge]

wait am i misreading i tihnk i am oops

[foggy fractal]

yeah I know
I'm just saying its up in the air whether or not they will continue with Hollow Knight after Silksong

[edgy nebula]

skynx's head probably looks crazy when he isnt hidden
huge horns

[timber pond]

The weavernest teased this whole plot lol

[lucid dirge]

bro genuine question wtf is this

[edgy nebula]

maybe nosk maybe not, we have no clue

[lucid dirge]

ive finished the game i genuinely never saw styx like that

[fathom stirrup]

is that in the game?

[fathom hill]

skynx, the replacement of styx in steel soul

[lucid dirge]

OH

[timber pond]

I mainly say steel stuff because there ar either locations they mention like BlackBarrens and stuff which I DEFINITELY think won't be expanded upon. Because they don't focus on it from any angle at all.

[fathom stirrup]

ah

[fathom hill]

Giving the morsels mechanic dont work if you cant get a coccoon

[edgy nebula]

this isnt styx, this is in steel soul, his name is skynx and he presumably killed styx and took his face

[fathom hill]

Same happened with the jiji guy in hk

[lucid dirge]

dude

ok this might genuinely be the same species as nosk?????????????

[fathom stirrup]

so is steel soul the canon or normal

or maybe like an alternate universe type shit

[lucid dirge]

same upside down head while imitating creatures they killed

[fathom hill]

Only problem I have with the styx nosk comparison is that nosk genuinely seems like a beast or at least feral

Though ive heard that that could be the infection

[lucid dirge]

probably au since they only replace npcs that would have no use in steel soul

except for uhhh

[edgy nebula]

the differences are that they can talk, they dont try to lure hornet in, and that they seemingly take a physical mask instead of making their own

[fathom stirrup]

could be because of infection

[lucid dirge]

the quest with the saviour boss

[foggy fractal]

yeah its odd that Sharpe isn't in the game and TC can't just cut it due to legal reasons so either

1. they're saving it for dlc
2. the creator asked TC to remove it, which would be odd too plus we have no evidence of this at all

[edgy nebula]

lots of evidence towards being nosk, some evidence to not, skynx is weiiird

[fathom hill]

Maybe im coping cuz i love my boywife styx

[sinful nimbus]

The steel assassins are referenced in Zi's dialogue its definitely foreshadowing

[fathom hill]

we wouldnt hurt us would he

[lucid dirge]

could just simply be a "smarter" nosk? like same species but not as dumb to challenge foes far stronger than it

[sinful nimbus]

The Nosk we see is also infected

[fathom stirrup]

does the needolin work on the steel soul styx

[edgy nebula]

if steel assassin sharpe does show up i hope he isnt steel soul exclusive, im too bad at the game to live in steel soul

[lucid dirge]

YEAH TRUE I FORGOT

[sinful nimbus]

And its actively hunting

[timber pond]

I found evidence 2 did not happen but I won't say where because that feels wrong.

[lucid dirge]

okay that makes sense now

its probably just the same species as him

[sinful nimbus]

Skynx could be different, although it doesn't even have to be a nosk it could just be a similar type of being

[edgy nebula]

we dont get any evidence on it talking, and there still isnt much reason as to why it wouldnt immediately attack hornet

[lucid dirge]

unless the species is just called nosk 😭

[edgy nebula]

it also doesnt string up styx's corpse like nosk is known to do

[sinful nimbus]

Not all of Nosk's victims are strung

[fathom stirrup]

If the needolin works on skynx then its a diff species cause using dreamnail on Nosk in HK just gives "..."

[foggy fractal]

well my dms are now open if that's better

[sinful nimbus]

Skynx just screams if you try to needolin it

[fathom stirrup]

freaky

[lucid dirge]

seems to have moved in recently though,as pengu said not all victims were strung and skynx isnt infected

[edgy nebula]

is there a video of this? im curious

[sinful nimbus]

Not sure

[lucid dirge]

"Give them. Take wrong. Ssssomeone, ssssave me. "

this shit is fucked up bruh why is it talking like styx

[fathom hill]

yeah that is also weird

[edgy nebula]

only dialogue that isnt stolen from hornet/has styx's dialogue quirk is "My reward"

[fathom hill]

Before ss i always assumed that was cuz nosks face isn't his so no identity

[edgy nebula]

which is weird considering everything else is, dont think it means anything though

[fathom hill]

but that's also weird after ss so idk

[edgy nebula]

skynx also sounds WEIRD

[lucid dirge]

im thinking that its like mashing up different words it hears from previous victims and people it interacts with

[fathom stirrup]

it says in the wiki that nosk gets the memories of the people it controls

[lucid dirge]

WHICH IS WEIRD cuz it feels like it understands what it says but not really???????

its like it only understands 50% of what its saying

[edgy nebula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Eo3jqXXtM&pp=ygUNc2lsa3NvZyBza3lueA%3D%3D video of skynx btw

[lucid dirge]

broooo 😭

[edgy nebula]

very likely yeah

[lucid dirge]

these guys have to get PULVERIZED bruh

genuinely evil ass species

[edgy nebula]

clear view of styx being dead as hell and having his face stolen aswell

[fathom hill]

oh yeah skynx is weird

[edgy nebula]

also where do the rosaries come from????

[fathom hill]

Styx also had a raspy voice but nothing like that

The voice sounds younger somehow though?

[lucid dirge]

probably just carries them around from previous victims?

[midnight wren]

ass jim is the creator of groal

[lucid dirge]

it probably saw them being used for trading and understood that it has value to other bugs

[fathom hill]

Could it be the huntress children or something

[lucid dirge]

FUCK no

we meet her children if we dont do her questline in act 2 im p sure

and they are normal

not whatever skynx is

[edgy nebula]

he like, spits them out though

[fathom hill]

We know one of them, the runt which is said to be the outlier

[lucid dirge]

😭 😭 😭 IDK THEN maybe he just stores them in him?

this guy is a fuckin weirdo

[lucid dirge]

yea but i doubt the rest of the children would be like skynx

or have upside down heads

[limpid summit]

I mean to be fair

We’re never given indication that HK Nosk isn’t smart

[lucid dirge]

yeah nosk was infected

[limpid summit]

It’s an ambush predator yeah it was just infected

[lucid dirge]

we realized that

🥀

this guy is fucking creepy as hell bruh hes literally just repeating styx's last words

i dont like him i want him dead

oh my gooood bruh

[edgy nebula]

the main things i have against skynx nosk theory are him taking styx's face instead of naturally forming it, not immediately attacking hornet, and talking, since we never get any info on nosk being able to speak from the corpses leading up to his lair

[lucid dirge]

yeah but as we said nosk was also infected

and they seem to rely on ambush tactics on weaker creatures

[edgy nebula]

fair, i spose

[lucid dirge]

i dont think they would attack someone that literally sayss "i see you there bruh"

omg im turning into styx myself

sayssssssssss

[foggy fractal]

😭 nahh its real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsgSvnL9saM

[lucid dirge]

this seems similar to how nosk was keeping its victims corpses

[edgy nebula]

thats just styx's colleciton of masks

if you dreamnail up there you get a silk spirit of him having an identity crisis

[stuck berry]

i'm working on a silksong iceberg, what are some less obscure lore facts and easter eggs

[fathom hill]

Yeah that's just him apparently getting a lot of masks for himself

[lucid dirge]

okay Fuck

[fathom hill]

Also the bodies of nosk were strung from the ceiling no

[lucid dirge]

not all of them

[edgy nebula]

The Vision should be layer 2

[stuck berry]

vision?

[edgy nebula]

the mask maker vision

where they can see into the inner self of bugs

[fathom hill]

the gleamflies thing

[foggy fractal]

yeah you can take a look at silksong mask maker dialogue on the wiki

[foggy fractal]

right that too

[limpid summit]

I mean technically we don’t know if he takes styx’s face

He could have just ate his head

[edgy nebula]

well styx's head is entirely gone, aswell as his mask

i also dont think nosk ever really explicitly ate any of the bugs he killed

[stuck berry]

gang layer 1 is for stuff most players would find out not obscure lore

[fathom hill]

Read it wrong sorry

[edgy nebula]

green prince is gay

[fathom hill]

Layer 1 should be most of the weavers lore

Tbf

[stiff cosmos]

Is trobbio related to grimm?

[edgy nebula]

no

[fathom hill]

The weavers migrated beyond hallownest and pharloom

[edgy nebula]

not that we know of atleast

[foggy fractal]

no reason to believe so besides they're both red and peformers

[atomic dirge]

Loam

[stuck berry]

putting that in layer 2 since i've seen a fair share of players miss him entirely

[foggy fractal]

eh Loam could go in two maybe ? I never encountered him on my playthrough

heck I 100% the game without ever meeting him

[fathom hill]

Hornet has had mates thing I've seen repeated a lot

[atomic dirge]

oh damn i thought youd say it was not obscure enough

Layer 1 fleas cooking moorwing

[stiff cosmos]

Groal ate the shaman

I think

[foggy fractal]

pious isamor would probably be in layer 2 too

[stiff cosmos]

Or just murdered him

[foggy fractal]

nah we literally see the corpse after the fight

[atomic dirge]

Oh if layer 1 is technically easter egg but so easy to find uhhh

Fourth chorus rock idfk

[fathom stirrup]

tortured him first but yeah

[stuck berry]

i didn't even find him

[atomic dirge]

put hornet isnt void on bottom layer for the funny

[stiff cosmos]

She isnt? /jk

[stuck berry]

here's how it's looking so far

[fathom stirrup]

Team vornet allt he way

Lugoli being a cannibal should not be that low imo

[stuck berry]

hmm maybe

[edgy nebula]

whuh? styx doesnt shapeshift

[fathom stirrup]

thats like base level stuff

[fathom hill]

twisted child should be higher, it even has an achievo not really obscure

[stuck berry]

styx is skynx

[atomic dirge]

I mean who thinks of going back there after act 3

[stuck berry]

i'll put those two one layer higher then

[fathom stirrup]

i never did i just looked at his wiki

[edgy nebula]

n he isnt

[vestal swan]

Does this come from some dialogue I missed or is it completely made up

[fathom stirrup]

but i figured he would be cause most bugs are

[edgy nebula]

you see styx's dead corpse in the room next to skynx

[stuck berry]

it's the same bug with the mask upside down

[stuck berry]

he molted as bugs do

[atomic dirge]

great conchfly hunter note

[fathom hill]

It is from the corchflies journal entry

[stuck berry]

hunter's journal entry for great conchfly

[fathom hill]

"No mate could match my lifespan"

[vestal swan]

?

Oh

[stuck berry]

fine i'll change that to "skynx and styx have the same mask"

[fathom stirrup]

that doesnt really mean shes had a mate

[stiff cosmos]

Hornet is old as shi

[lucid dirge]

hey guys back to skynx i heard he screams when you play the needolin is there a clip of this

[fathom hill]

She says she tried to get that level of companionship? don't remember the exact quote

[edgy nebula]

not that i know of

[fathom hill]

Also the talk she has with Eva, "I know the curse well" the curse being of reproduction being painful

[atomic dirge]

wait easy layer 1
Pilby

[stuck berry]

true true

[fathom hill]

Implying that she did try to have offspring at some point but failed

[fathom stirrup]

nvm

[edgy nebula]

you should add hornet slap to layer 1

[stiff cosmos]

Imagine cracking hornet✌️

[lucid dirge]

W goons

[fathom stirrup]

on everybodys soul but my own we all cracking

[stiff cosmos]

Everybody is safe❤️‍🩹

[lucid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/city-day-night-fast-forward-secret-life-of-pets-gif-13283132

[atomic dirge]

layer 1 or 2 Moss Grotto Marrowmaw?? maybe??

[edgy nebula]

what is a marrowmaw? the bigger rolling guy to the right of when you wake up?

[atomic dirge]

yeah

you need to go through 2 fake walls to find it

[lucid dirge]

the one at the start of the game?

[atomic dirge]

prob layer 1

[lucid dirge]

also i missed him before act 3 and when i came back i saw he was dead 😭

what a weird specific easter egg

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr should be layer 1 or 2 ngl

i missed him my first playthrough

[atomic dirge]

layer 2 Widow is the last weaver in pharloom?

[lucid dirge]

nah thats pretty easy to figure out

game literally says it

[atomic dirge]

there's a needolin dialogue in the cradle that's p easy to miss

[lucid dirge]

what about the surface

most players probably wont even find out about it

[atomic dirge]

layer 1 prob because of mr mush

[lucid dirge]

its still kind of hidden even with that quest

[fathom stirrup]

Theory for who Hornets mate was

[fathom hill]

she prolly had multiple

she is old

[fathom stirrup]

ok for one of them then damn

[atomic dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-fan4stic-fantastic-four-the-thing-say-that-again-gif-9345984830195785978

[fathom hill]

So idk particularly in hallownest could be even characters that we can track form hk, characters we do not know of

[timber pond]

She mght not even be full weaver, if the cage that mentions the steel city is anything to go by

[atomic dirge]

huh? no she def is

[stuck berry]

alright how's this

[fathom stirrup]

nvm my thoery is ass

[fathom hill]

Ive seen the idea that she pulled a hot bee back at the bee hive and I can get behind it lol

[atomic dirge]

we can def add a little more
also i think summoned savior is like, layer 1

[timber pond]

The Steel City and Steel Hearts Should be at the Bottom

[limber anvil]

Is dirtmouth and the cliffs considered the surface?

[edgy nebula]

yes

[stuck berry]

most players are not going to start steel soul right off the bat

[fathom hill]

surface level could be the sherma is sinless theory

[stuck berry]

true

[atomic dirge]

bottom layer idea
the unused judge pacifist check

[stuck berry]

never heard of this can you elaborate

[atomic dirge]

lemme get the reddit post

[fathom stirrup]

in the lost lace description it says "I will claim her back. This one... the dark shall not take." Which could be referring to how she lost a child to the void

[elfin minnow]

Baby judges/squirrms

[fathom hill]

She is referring to the knight

[fathom stirrup]

could also just be referring to the kngiht

[limber anvil]

You can get a 3rd act 2 intro cutscene by getting fawfawn in act 1 and go through wisp thicket

[atomic dirge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1nyclet/might_have_found_the_criteria_for_how_judges/

[limber anvil]

Yup its cut content...

[atomic dirge]

TLDR

[fathom hill]

She also says something like "do not make that mistake, ive seen people before make the same mistake" or something to lace, which is throwing shade at the pale king

[atomic dirge]

there was an unused variant where judges would not attack you if you killed 0 enemies up to that point

[fathom hill]

Since the pale king also thought of the vessels as not being life, just as lace is doing with herself

[obsidian silo]

when will mossbag release his lore video?

[raven condor]

What the hell are stalking devotes? Weaver related?

[elfin minnow]

Imagine a pacifist route in silksong

[limber anvil]

As someone who has been digging into cut content I know all of these XD

[atomic dirge]

unfort this went unused because you're forced to kill moss mother

[fathom hill]

Which also makes the idea that lace and the knight are parallels

[limber anvil]

Likely planned and cut

[lucid dirge]

god this guy is creepy

[flint wadi]

its an interesting idea though

[limber anvil]

Its possible haunted enemies didn't count

[flint wadi]

escaping moss grotto through a hidden passage

[stuck berry]

the average player won't

[atomic dirge]

particularly

[fathom hill]

knight lace parallel could also be there imo

[edgy nebula]

he dont even say shit bruh he just doesnt like you

[elfin minnow]

That would be cool tjo
But also impossible

[atomic dirge]

bell beast did not count because you do not kill her

[limber anvil]

You could skip moss mother initally

[fathom hill]

Or also all the other parallels within silksong

[lucid dirge]

its so weird to me cuz im p sure nearly EVERYONE starts singing even if they dont like it

skynx just fucking refuses and growls at you

[limber anvil]

It relates to the 2021-2022 changes

[fathom stirrup]

what if thats just his singing voice

[flint wadi]

in demos?

[fathom stirrup]

and you are being very rude to him rn

[fathom hill]

Not everyone, zaza and garmond dont after he succumbs to the void

[limber anvil]

Pharloom wasn't in ruin in 2021

[edgy nebula]

no dialogue

[limber anvil]

Yeah by jumping over the eggs

[fathom stirrup]

he trying his best

[lucid dirge]

isnt he literally dead after

[fathom hill]

zaza isnt dead

[limber anvil]

But that is cut content

[atomic dirge]

possible connection between elder hu and shakra's tribe in a mid/low layer?

[fathom hill]

yet

[flint wadi]

oh thats a really fun idea actually

shame it got cut

[lucid dirge]

im looking at the wiki and it says zaza does say stuff

[fathom hill]

only problem with this for me its that its really unfounded outside of the they look similar

[atomic dirge]

ok fair enough

[fathom hill]

wait really?

I played the needolin back there and it didnt show anything

[atomic dirge]

Runt in layer 2?

[lucid dirge]

"Old bug... old friend...
Brave to the end...
So strong... so kind...
Let's meet back home...
Thank you... "

[fathom hill]

Im going to try again in my save file

[limber anvil]

Probably changed with 2021 lore and theming changes... judges are now also haunted... originally they were not probably

[lucid dirge]

garmond makes sense he doesnt have any after hes literally taken over by the void i guess

[fathom hill]

Its my anniversary today so i cant be opening silksong all day to talk to yall goddammit

[lucid dirge]

but skynx isnt like that and its just weird to me

[limber anvil]

Based upon the coral gorge... not being cut back then

[flint wadi]

one of many....

[fathom hill]

[lucid dirge]

🥀

[limber anvil]

Now all of the judges are just puppets

[flint wadi]

yeah

[fathom stirrup]

i mean wasnt nosk theorized to have some sort of relation to the void

[fathom hill]

maybe it is like the "..." dream nail dialogue with nosk

[atomic dirge]

you have to miss or purposefully fail a sidequest in time

[fathom hill]

Given how he doesnt sing

[lucid dirge]

no like he literally growls

not even just being silent he literally gets angry at it

[fathom hill]

Mm I gotta check after then

[limber anvil]

Also the judges having that trigger actully fits a cut NPC called the pin pilgrim'

[lucid dirge]

yea but i doubt it since not all black creatures are void (that sounds racist)

[limber anvil]

So passafists could get through but those who shed violence couldnt

[fathom hill]

I have a steel soul save file but i never used it to see those tidbits of lore, i just used it for the speedrunning achievo

[stuck berry]

@atomic dirge can i get a source for the pacifist last judge thing

[atomic dirge]

maybe layer 1 "Lumble loses his title"?

[fathom hill]

I gotta explora in that one

[lucid dirge]

i posted the clip higher up

[atomic dirge]

.

[lucid dirge]

#sk-lore message

[stuck berry]

winning lumble's game thaat's a good one

[lucid dirge]

he literally gets angry at you idk this guy is actually really creepy

[fathom stirrup]

yeah

lowkey starting my steelsoul run so i can get to him

[fathom hill]

oh yeah thats weird

[atomic dirge]

screencap of the code from OP

[fathom hill]

but even the other dude that hates the music thing actually sings

also some bugs sing weird idk

But yeah no lyrics at all is weird, again could go back to then "..." nosk thing

[fathom stirrup]

already lost my steelsoul run

[fathom hill]

shame, to who

[atomic dirge]

layer 1 "attack kratt" or something

[fathom stirrup]

the big guy int he secret at the start

that drops the beast shard

[fathom hill]

why did you put yorself there though

yorself

[fathom stirrup]

cause the 100% speedrun guide said to

im skipping it now though lol

[fathom hill]

really? thats weird

its too much risk for little reward imo, but maybe since youre at the start of the run it doesnt really matter

[stuck berry]

alright it's getting kind of crowded

[fathom hill]

weird that the guide would tell you to take it

[fathom stirrup]

ive done it before and it wasnt too bad

its also some back water guide i found randomly

and not for steelsoul

[terse warren]

"Styx and Skynx share a mask" I'm gonna blow your mind

[atomic dirge]

squirrms are not that low

[terse warren]

Skynx sounds like Skin

[stuck berry]

i tried to put styx is a shapeshifter but it got backlash

[terse warren]

So surely the iceberg is a shitpost right

[atomic dirge]

can you fit Runt somewhere in there

[stuck berry]

no i'm being legit with this

who is runtOH right huntress

[atomic dirge]

if you don't finish or start broodfeast by act 3 huntress dies

[foggy juniper]

maybe styx having multiple masks could fit in the iceberg

[terse warren]

You do realize that Skynx is called that because they "skinned" Styx and took their face right

[atomic dirge]

and broodfeast is replaced with runtfeast

[fathom hill]

lugoli should be higher again, dunno how secret it really is

[terse warren]

How is it even worthy if an iceberg spot

[atomic dirge]

i mean that's way less obvious than you're puttng it as

[fathom hill]

good hypothesis though

[stuck berry]

falls under the styx skynx thing

[atomic dirge]

but yeah Styx is just fucking dead in steel soul

[stuck berry]

i hold that he molted personally

[fathom hill]

my wife!

[stuck berry]

but that's more speculation

[foggy juniper]

kinda yeah

[terse warren]

The guy is literally called Skynx. Like Skin.

[fathom hill]

[stuck berry]

gang i need some real obscure facts the upper layers are very crowded

[edgy nebula]

mask maker vision

[atomic dirge]

you're making it sound like it's the most obvious jump ever it really isn't 😭

[fathom hill]

lore fan trying not to be a smartass challenge impossible

[stuck berry]

i don't know what this is

[terse warren]

It really is

[edgy nebula]

vision that mask makers have that lets them see the inner self of bugs

[limpid summit]

Skynx is called Skynx because it shares 2 new letters with Nosk

[terse warren]

The guy quite literally wears the skin(x) of their prey

[limpid summit]

Skynx sounds phonetically pretty different than skin anyway his skin is right there

It’s like sking not skin

[fathom hill]

[atomic dirge]

anyway

a low iceberg thing hmm

[limpid summit]

WL likes Hornet more than the Vessels

[stuck berry]

i'll just put mask maker lore then

[edgy nebula]

fair

[terse warren]

Idk Verdania Clovers regrowing only in latest beta

[stuck berry]

should i put "vespa named hornet"

[stuck berry]

got that

[fathom hill]

yes totally

[limpid summit]

Old Penitent is Romino

[atomic dirge]

WAIT WHAT

[limpid summit]

He says his sin is too great to mention and his song is the melody of the conductor

[stuck berry]

that's more of a theory no

[fathom hill]

the hornets are wasps that look like bees but arent, signalling hornets position on the hive

[stuck berry]

i put hidden slab NPCs so that should do it in my opinion

[limpid summit]

I mean you’re never going to get solid facts on the lower levels of an iceberg like this

[flint wadi]

^ lowest levels are always breaching on crackpot theory

[stuck berry]

hmm true

[atomic dirge]

ok good idea

[limpid summit]

Hmm

[stuck berry]

i'm putting "lace freed hornet theory" down there

[regal crow]

Does courier’s rasher really have courier meat in it?

[limpid summit]

“Root” as a species like Wyrm

[atomic dirge]

maybe somewhere in the lower middle "pinstress and seamstress were stilkin"?

[flint wadi]

green prince prophecy

[atomic dirge]

green prince translation issues

[fathom hill]

ive heard its grub meat but havent found an indication of it

[lucid dirge]

oh my god im so stupid

IM SO FUCKING STUPID ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY

[kindred lodge]

||Hear me out, theres a chance hornet is the first sinner or not even 1%?||

[lucid dirge]

I GET WHY HES CALLED SKYNX NOW HOYL SHIT

[atomic dirge]

how

[lucid dirge]

CUZ HE SKINNED STYX

[limpid summit]

First sinner is a first gen weaver

[stuck berry]

i'll put stilkin pinstress sister somewhere

[limber anvil]

If pharloom bay is readded do people think it will be act 3 exclusive? Like once the collapse occurs some walls fall down relvealing the ocean

[terse warren]

See this guy gets it

[fathom hill]

put the widow used to be a flea under there

[atomic dirge]

i mean when you say that it makes sense it's just not such an instant leap

[regal crow]

The chef dude mentions it being ‘rasher from a courier’. I have no idea what a rasher is, but….well…

[fathom hill]

thats a doozy one

[flint wadi]

verdania prophecy

[stuck berry]

not even the crackpot theories layer can justify that sorry gang

[lucid dirge]

dude it was so obvious how did i not realize it

[fathom hill]

we know weavers are mutilated bugs and widow kind of looks like them

[lucid dirge]

i feel so fucking dumb bruh

[fathom hill]

thats abt it lmao

[lucid dirge]

you mean mutated? right? 😭

i mean widow was mutilated ur right but not everyone was

[terse warren]

Her mask has been forcefully removed

[atomic dirge]

lower end of the iceberg
Camora is the Silkspear Weaver

[fathom hill]

I like to say mutilated cuz we know that gms doing on the weavers had nasty side effects on their natural processes

[limber anvil]

Atla weaver of time should be high

Aka the one we get upgrades from

[atomic dirge]

atla isn't eva

[fathom hill]

gals i gotta go for now, ill be lurking dou

[stuck berry]

okay now we're reaching stuff i wasn't even aware of

[flint wadi]

we have correlations for most of the mummies actually

[lucid dirge]

i dont really think it had any nasty processes i think they were mainly upset they were lied to about their origin

[stuck berry]

can you elaborate on this

[limber anvil]

I mispoke... I meant in the same area.

[lucid dirge]

they are literally "ascended" bugs

[flint wadi]

like quick step likely being cindril

[limber anvil]

Eva is in weavernest atla

[atomic dirge]

there's a few named Weavers, and Camora's effigy + a text naming her are right next to the silkspear weaver

[atomic dirge]

yeah the only ones we don't know very likely are Murglin and Atla

[lucid dirge]

alta is the one in moss grotto? i dont remember
if so then yes shes there

[flint wadi]

first sinner is theorized to be alta so thats not the most baseless theory in the world

[lucid dirge]

the wat

[atomic dirge]

i supported this theory earlier today but realized i was not saying shit

[stuck berry]

putting down First Sinner is Atla theory

[limber anvil]

Why?

[flint wadi]

you gain access to alta effigy with the same key that unlocks FS' cage

[atomic dirge]

yeah Atla's effigy is in the Slab

[limber anvil]

True

[fathom hill]

could put the hornet only saves tragic women thing maybe

[atomic dirge]

and most effigies are very close to a certain weaver statue

[flint wadi]

under apostate key no less

[fathom hill]

[silver spire]

ppl whats the lore behind the lore of the 4 shaman souls

[stuck berry]

she saved sherma

[limber anvil]

That makes sense

[fathom hill]

sherma ain't a women

[silver spire]

how do they even give it to us without dying

[fathom hill]

A wait i red wrong again

[limber anvil]

First weaver helped create eva in a rebellion but got sealed

[fathom hill]

Anyways sherma ain't a tragic one

[atomic dirge]

uhh other interesting facts for the iceberggg

[fathom hill]

reproduction being a painful curse is one

[lucid dirge]

the ones in silksong are just parts of the power of the shamans giving it toyou

[stuck berry]

and yet she saved him iunno gang

[lucid dirge]

the one from groal is the same thing except the dude is dead cuz groal took it first

[fathom hill]

Fair enough

[limber anvil]

Lore iceberg?

[stuck berry]

do you guys havea any idea as to how i can better reshuffle this

[lucid dirge]

i dont remember this canu remind me
also herrah seemed to be fine and i thought she was a weaver

[fathom hill]

But of all the ones that are sulking or tragic she only saves the women, both green prince and phantom are not spared

[stuck berry]

i'm making an iceberg based off easter eggs and lore ranging from Layer 1- the average player would find this to layer 8- no one knows this exists

[flint wadi]

im noting a lack of dies irae

[limber anvil]

The aspids and the gloom are 2 more cut areas

[stuck berry]

good catch

[fathom hill]

The secret interaction with Eva, eva is an attempt to get over the curse

[foggy fractal]

the unravelled and conductor mizillo should be higher imo

its not that obscure

[limber anvil]

I updated the cut content section on the wiki... to include details about all 4 known cut areas

[fathom hill]

Mossbag shared a vid of it on twitter

[lucid dirge]

SECRET INTERACTION? wtf did i miss bruhh

[atomic dirge]

if you approach eva on lifeblood overdose or when cursed she puts up a seal

[flint wadi]

i also feel like 3 queens related stuff is not that obscure esp since its directly confirmed in the game now

[limber anvil]

It is top of the iceberg now

[limber anvil]

Cut content allowed?

[lucid dirge]

OHHHH

[limber anvil]

Pharloom bay is implied to have been cut very late.. post 2023

[stuck berry]

for sure

[limber anvil]

Other areas got cut in the 2021-2022 rework

[atomic dirge]

maybe somewhere in the middle
Killing Pebb

[foggy fractal]

I raise you this then #sk-lore message

[stuck berry]

i'll put "Eva bars you from entry" in level 4 or 5

[limber anvil]

Sinners road is known as dustpens internally and before bilewater was. And the cut tool dustpillo is fully functional in the files

[fathom hill]

Could add the weavers can't reproduce thing too actually since it links to eva

[flint wadi]

yk i could just throw in the 2017 map and like 90% of its contents can be used here lol

[flint wadi]

i think hidden interractions arent that obscure

[limber anvil]

Void cult. Lifeblood spire. Songeater layer the catacombs

[foggy fractal]

also if you haven't put trobbio quill put it like layer 2 ?

[flint wadi]

like psalm 2 in lvl 4 is a little low

[limber anvil]

Bilewater being called the swamp next to the sea

[atomic dirge]

oh yeah trobbio quill lmao

[limber anvil]

Purple quill layer 3 red quill layer 1-2

[flint wadi]

make separate entry for tormented trobbio quill

yesss

[silver spire]

should i go for purple quill on steel soul

[limber anvil]

Below the void sea... kickstarter returns for final boss

[foggy fractal]

legit like no one knows about these organ sleepers I gotta start spreading my agenda more

[flint wadi]

if you go for 100% might as well lol

[stuck berry]

what

[lethal burrow]

Sleeper organ or overrated organ

It processes nutrients, so it's got that coming for it

[foggy fractal]

#sk-lore message

[limber anvil]

Intesting

[flint wadi]

multiple daughters theory>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>???????????????????????

[limber anvil]

Probably cut content reguarding more silk siblings

[foggy fractal]

they seem to resemble the heart bosses too
first one khann, second nyleth, and the third seemingly Karmelita with the bones

[stuck berry]

level 7 is for theories with strong basises and more widely known cut content level 8 is for odd things in the game files imo

steel hearts i should place higher

[foggy fractal]

raghhh Organ Sleepers agenda is growing... yes... YES...

[lucid dirge]

anyone know what these could have been for? these are the only tools that want to know about

[stuck berry]

andy have you dug a lot into the files or know about that

[limber anvil]

Oh so speculation allowed

[stuck berry]

if there's a strong basis for it yes

[foggy fractal]

the tools ? nah no idea lmao

[lethal burrow]

The last judge never had pacifism stuff in their code, only the regular judges

[lucid dirge]

also why were the heart ripping animations removed they were a lot cooler than what we have

[limber anvil]

Well I have several gloom being old bilewater and possibly a mercuery swamp for one..

[foggy fractal]

I just looked at the all sprites document a lot and found some stuff earlier on

[lucid dirge]

can i get some info on this fuckin undertale pacifist route shit

[stuck berry]

fixed, thank you

[foggy fractal]

the cut content wiki page is starting to document more stuff though

[limber anvil]

Based upon the judge unused text strung to serve cut ending and a lot of cut stuff

[lucid dirge]

all it sounds like is avoiding fights and taking secret passages to bypass bosses but that sounds so lame for a metroidvania game

[atomic dirge]

notably, it doesn't count lace and bell beast

[lethal burrow]

Well, maybe that's why it was cut

[atomic dirge]

since those 2 don't die when you beat em

nor does it count the automatons in cogwork coresince those aren't alive

[limber anvil]

This is a theory of mine. In 2021 pre rework the idea was for pharloom being a Kingdom on the brink of collapse but not fully collapsed as seen now. The kingdom was still alive with properious towns but the citidel was becoming the site of an infection.

[flint wadi]

silksong really went from 50% silk 50% song to 75% silk 25% song

[stuck berry]

strung to serve i completely forgot

[limber anvil]

Its implied grandmother silk didn't have full control and that people knew of her and the bells were to weaken her

[lucid dirge]

did we find more info on strung to serve and what was the trigger for it?

all i know is that it required gms without binding her at the end

[limber anvil]

The judges attacked you only if you killed other charactures.

[limber anvil]

Not using the bells

[lucid dirge]

huh

[foggy fractal]

theres also these tuning fork looking things that would've been in the cradle presumably
the wiki also says this about the cut ending "Coding for activating this ending in the final battle references whether certain "tuning forks" were active, which were seemingly related to the Bell Shrines scattered across Pharloom." so maybe these were related to the cut ending ? not sure though, also their grooves are reminicent of the pure nail and thk's nail so theres that

[limber anvil]

Basically the bells weakened her according to cut NPC dialogue

[lucid dirge]

seems silly for a god running a city thats all about music

[limber anvil]

My guess is the judges were allowing peaceful pilgrims to enter the citidel.

[limber anvil]

The music keeps her asleep

[lethal burrow]

Organ sleepers sounds like something from SCP

[quiet briar]

Dream ss dlc would be about some kind of rivalry between sharkas tribe and the steel assassins. What about yall what u guys want from dlc