sk-lore

[dire lynx]

browns are dangerous but not many people die from snakes here, mostly cows and horses

[crude locust]

What do we think THK is doing during Silksong since they didn’t appear with the other shades, implying that they may be alive

[zinc pivot]

How are cows lethal

i know what you meant just joking

[robust scarab]

probabbly dealing with trauma ( both physical and mental ) and trying to help hallownest

[crude locust]

Yeah but the pale king met the white lady in Hallownest, not pharloom

[south wing]

It'd be so funny if in the background you just some a random long boi with all the tiny shades 😂

[robust scarab]

i can easily see the third game having THK as the protag so we get the 3 main siblings as protags

also would allow for gameplay to be shaken up

[south wing]

He gets around 😄

[zinc pivot]

THK was parkouring Path of Pain and realizing father always love them

[south wing]

Plus the Pale King was doing other kingly stuff before Hallownest, he shades his skin when he arrives

[robust scarab]

what if THK goes to whatever land wyrms comes from ?

[crude locust]

I’m thinking maybe a steel assassins dlc that starts with Sherma mentioning a tall lanky figure with one arm stopping by Songclave and Hornet would begin to freak out

[zinc pivot]

Hollow Knight: Shadesoul

totally didn’t mean to name it Darksoul

[crude locust]

Hollow Knight: Palesoul

[south wing]

Anyway i'm going to eat my pillow bye yo o:

[robust scarab]

also you could have THK with a prosphetic arm

that you could change like crests

[dire lynx]

i dont think THK will show up in ss

[zinc pivot]

So he can see the future with it?

[crude locust]

What I’m hearing is Nero DMC5

[dire lynx]

"homophobic cat" ahh reply

[robust scarab]

i mean similar level of physical trauma and probably daddy issues

[crude locust]

To be fair, it would be sick to see what they were doing after HK

[robust scarab]

yeah but i dont see THK go to pharloom

[dire lynx]

i agree

[robust scarab]

i think him going to land of Wyrms for the third game makes the most sense

maybe to explore his heritage and understand his father better as a way to cope

[crude locust]

My reasoning is that Steel Assassins chase THK to Pharloom

That’s how I’d see a Steel Assassins DLC starting

[zinc pivot]

Steel Assassins sound lame for a DLC

[robust scarab]

Silksong has a lot of its story build around motherhood

[crude locust]

Like introduce the threat with the main final boss of the last game

[robust scarab]

the third game could focus on fatherhood

[crude locust]

How

[zinc pivot]

I mean as a name

Im all in for the steel

[edgy nebula]

the name should be "Steel Your Heart"

[crude locust]

Oh no I was just saying steel assassins since that’s what the group is called

That’s not what I’d call the dlc

I’d probably do like “Steel and Void” or something

[robust scarab]

steelforged

[zinc pivot]

Shadow of the Steel Lords

[robust scarab]

thx for reminding me of the Lore nuke called SOTE

[crude locust]

Hollow Knight: Palesoul
You play as the Hollow Knight and learn a lot more about the void civilization and shade is a miniboss what do we think so far for this idea

[zinc pivot]

Lore nuke implying it has important lore or it destroys lore?

[earnest marsh]

Small thing that I wanted to share, I think that the small weavernest on Mt. Fay belonged to First Sinner.
It has a door brokwn inwards, implying that someone who is not a weaver wanted to get in, and whoever broke in had a clear purpose (nothing else is broken and even the schematics for a weaver weapon remain intact) + ofc it's really close to the slab.

[robust scarab]

a lot of its lore choices are dissapointing IMO

like marikas backstory and dragon stuff? amazing

everything miquella related? Miyazaki read Berserk again

also final boss was dumb

[crude locust]

Do we think if godhome shows up in Silksong it’ll be voided

[zinc pivot]

Got FBI’d by flies

[robust scarab]

Silksong explores Hornets weaver heritage + motherhood

THK game should explore the wyrm heritage from pale king and fatherhood

for thematic consistency

[earnest marsh]

Yeah lol
At first I thought it could be Widow's Weavernest but I find it more likely that other Weavers would have tortured her for still worshipping GMS, and Weavers would be able to enter using a harp without needing to break the door.

[robust wagon]

I doubt godhome will show up again

[crude locust]

True, but I do still like the shade miniboss idea since it’s a bigger shade than the knight, and maybe still some new lore about the void

[zinc pivot]

A kingsmould head keep white palace fine and it was void

[robust scarab]

yeah new lore aboud the void makes sense , void can appear everywhere

but like imagine a village build around a corpse of a wyrm

that would be coolest sht ever

[crude locust]

What

[edgy nebula]

the thing is godseeker entirely disappeas

i dont think hornet would be able to access it

[robust scarab]

also the base ending allready had Hornet ascend to the status of higher being , what would godhome add exactly to the story?

[earnest marsh]

Also Hornet access memories with Elegy and not dreams
I think a cool idea for how "Godhome" could work might be with Atla since the effigy says she is the "Weaver of Time" which would allow you to access the bosses in their prime forms

[crude locust]

I’m thinking maybe somehow the Godseeker appears at the pale lake while voided, hands still pretending to hold the everbloom, and you would need to use your everbloom to break the void around the godseeker idk I just want a boss rush

[zinc pivot]

Sounds like a setting for land serene
Aka where ever zemer pedestrian ass and her yuri flowers came from

[edgy nebula]

well, we see the shade lord in the sister of the void ending

[robust scarab]

yeah

which is why i think one of the ETV endings are canon

but like what would godhome add to silksongs story

[crude locust]

Im thinking there would be two more bosses in a Silksong godhome and it would be knight and shadelord

[zinc pivot]

Well, it could be like sekiro where the gauntlet happens in your head

[robust scarab]

why would hornet fight either , Shadelord isnt against her and she doesnt fear the void

[crude locust]

Well I feel like they wouldn’t just not have a godhome replacement everyone’s gonna want it

[earnest marsh]

I was thinking that as well, maybe some shit in whiteward?

[robust scarab]

it would have to be something new

not just "godhome" but entirelly new way to do prime bosses

[earnest marsh]

Yeah I hate how everyone wants the exact same godhome and want to see the return of Grimm Troupe

[robust scarab]

also final boss would probably be Prime GMS

[earnest marsh]

have some whimsy

[robust scarab]

for le obvious reasons ( Absolute radiance)

[crude locust]

Just for this I’m adding a third beastly to my voidhome concept

[robust wagon]

That would be boring, just a repeat of what happened with Absrad

[crude locust]

Absolute Savage Beastfly

[zinc pivot]

So yeah we are definitely getting a new higher being in a major DLC then

[robust scarab]

maybe lifeblood ?

a lifeblood higher being as a boss

[robust wagon]

God I hope so, there being only one new higher being in the base game sucks

[crude locust]

Oh yeah we don’t know anything about that lifeblood god from the void and godhome

[earnest marsh]

Oh true Lifeblood does seem to be similar to Radiance's infection, so there could be a lifeblood boss who controls it all

[robust scarab]

and lifeblood spreads like infection throu parts of pharloom

so my bet is a Lifeblood HB

[zinc pivot]

Though i think for the sake of urgency the first dlc would have the order of steel

[crude locust]

I saw a dlc concept where no matter what act you’re in, you can access the dlc through a place called Pharloom Bay where the dlcs are like islands, unaffected by the Great Quaking if you go in act 3

[zinc pivot]

Backer character being promised in ss and all that

[robust wagon]

Pharloom bay is cut content, though that sounds like a cool idea

[robust scarab]

fair , i imagined THK fighting a Wyrm while being on top of it and the wyrm travels throu the desert like its a Dune worm

and realised i want it

[zinc pivot]

Kinda like cuphead

[crude locust]

I’d really want to see a dlc where it’s hornet during the outbreak of the infection in Hallownest, where at the end you get a new crest

[robust scarab]

also a Lifeblood HB would be a excuse to go underwater to the coral foster that was cut

from the game ( its in trailers)

[crude locust]

Like city of tears would be a vital place in the dlc, and near the end it would get infected

[zinc pivot]

Yeah, karak is said to have stretched over half of old pharloom

There must be surviving karak remnant

[crude locust]

I want to explore the surface

What else is out there

[zinc pivot]

Skrills

[robust scarab]

I think thats for the third game IMO

like there is no mention of the surface in SS

jesus that acronym sucks

[crude locust]

We go to the surface

After the Silksong path of pain

Above the cradle

[zinc pivot]

Surface remains quite elusive topic
Being without sunlight, yet life still thrives

[crude locust]

Which does confirm dirtmouth isn’t the surface with how far down it is compared to the cradle

[zinc pivot]

Maybe its just a bigger cave

[crude locust]

Maybe on the surface, gods are visible

And the radiance was the sun, being destroyed, there is no light to shine

[zinc pivot]

I mean, you drop a fair distance from cliff to kings pass
Then kings pass to dirtmouth

[zinc pivot]

Radiance lives in dream realm though

Correction: lived

[robust scarab]

Radiance isnt literally the sun

[crude locust]

Then why was she the sun

[robust scarab]

because its a form she takes?

like a symbol

[crude locust]

I’m not saying she is the sun, I’m saying it’s what would represent her on the surface

And without her what would it represent?

Or maybe it’s there, just blacked out by void

[zinc pivot]

It depends on how much HK world resemble real world
The sun is usually a celestial object

[crude locust]

Oh yeah crystal peaks is bellow mount fay yeah dirtmouth is FAR down

[zinc pivot]

Did you base this on that fanmade crude assembling of two maps

Because please that shit aint official

[crude locust]

I looked at both maps and found where the abyss lake lines up

Which makes me think

How big is the abyss truly?

[zinc pivot]

It could be that abyss lake come up further to the surface

In hallownest

Else we would’ve seen magma layer

[crude locust]

We don’t see magma at all in HK

[zinc pivot]

Yeah, so abyss in HK is simply closer to surface than in SS

Because HK depth if compared to SS would’ve sunken the entire lower half to magma layer

[crude locust]

We don’t know if that magma layer extends through the whole abyss, Hallownest to Pharloom and maybe beyond

we don’t know how similar structurally the world of HK is to earth too

[stuck berry]

anyone notice this

also grey prince zote and greyroot, the whole shellwood thing

[zinc pivot]

Still feel like a stretch to say some place on HK world is near magma and other places aint at a depth level

[robust scarab]

there might be a volcano in a future game or DLC

it would definitly be a interesting terrain to explore

[zinc pivot]

Need more magma rising parkour

Cooler than the shit in far fields at least

[crude locust]

Well still, Dirtmouth was never labeled as the surface, while in Silksong we literally go to the surface directly

[stuck berry]

memes in #off-topic methinks

or #hk-meme

[zinc pivot]

It was not mentioned anywhere in SS as surface btw

[ebon silo]

me thinks #hk-meme

Oh ffs I'm so slow

[stuck berry]

was it explicitly stated that the town was in the surface i forgot

[crude locust]

Surface memento

[stuck berry]

it could be there are layers to all of this

[ebon silo]

I mean maybe

[stuck berry]

tch right

[ebon silo]

What is this

[narrow glacier]

Patriarchy - 2
Matriarchy - 0

[crude locust]

Surface memento

[valid compass]

the crust king khann ost was enough to describe what kind of place the karak kingdom was

[stuck berry]

it could mean pharloom surface and not the earth's surface

[crude locust]

Then why is it just called the surface and nothing else

[zinc pivot]

I still believe that HK is not at magma level elevation in SS

[stuck berry]

to fit with the naming scheme of the other mementos

hero's memento hunter's memento guardian's memento

[valid compass]

so mount fay is also kinda open to the surface right

[stuck berry]

not that we can see but it's possible

it's still ambigious as to what that "snow" is

could be spores could be the faydown's "feathers"

[valid compass]

at least we know its cold out there

[dense aspen]

We were not summond we were always there

For hallownest is eternal

[earnest marsh]

Please don't tell me we're theorizing that Greyroot is Zote's mom 😭

[crude locust]

We theorizing that they related in some way

[covert night]

through its devotion may hallownest last eternal

[stuck berry]

we're theorizing zote has a connection to shellwood with more evidence than the sword

[crude locust]

And my theory, is that the white lady spawned the creation of Greyroot’s species

[dense aspen]

Shit man might be

[meager drum]

what even is garmond? my best guess is a rosy wolf snail but he clearly had antennae

[dense aspen]

Greyroot x random wyrm

[dense aspen]

Blackwyrm

Greyroot x blackwyrm

[meager drum]

both parasites

[dense aspen]

Found the origins of zote

[earnest marsh]

both parasites LMFAO

[crude locust]

The nameless town in the surface and the surface memento kind of resemble Garmond’s head shape so maybe he’s from the surface

[stuck berry]

a don quixote type from another nearby land whose inhabitants were gotten by the haunting

[dense aspen]

I love garmond

[meager drum]

I mean what kind of bug

[covert night]

is blackwyrm a thing idk about that lore

[stuck berry]

don quixote

[dense aspen]

Shame he dies. I never even say his actual body i found about it after I got to ll

[stuck berry]

it's a thing ogrim mentioned in passing but probably has no real significance

[crude locust]

What if the blackwyrm was a void consumed wyrm and that may have started the pale king’s interest in void

[meager drum]

[stuck berry]

i think this one is just a coincidence

there are no haunted bugs up there just regular ones

[crude locust]

You don’t need to be haunted to be voided

Just void

[stuck berry]

regular non-anthropomorphic non-voided bugs up there

[meager drum]

I dont think he came in contact with straight up void

[quartz swallow]

What kind of bug is groal?

[stuck berry]

frog adjacent

[meager drum]

frog

[quartz swallow]

He has wings

[crude locust]

We don’t know if there are any openings to the void anywhere else

[meager drum]

could also be a normal bug mishapened into a frog shape by soul magic

[quartz swallow]

Maybe

[stuck berry]

actually a solid idea

given he stole it and likely doesn't know how to use it

aside from spitting out vengeful spirits

[quartz swallow]

He might have been one of the regular bilewater thingys and grew because of the soul he absorbed

[meager drum]

but I like the idea of fayforn and groal being actual chordates

wow it randomly got really quiet did my internet cut out

garmond does look a lot like a rosy wolf snail

[edgy nebula]

well groal has 6 legs

[meager drum]

well snail shamans dont have eyes on stalks, mites have 4 or 0 legs, and mantises have the most complicated possible life cycle

[past cypress]

Pretty much what happened with Soul Master isn't it?

[quartz swallow]

Yeah basically

[stuck berry]

more importantly fleas lack fur

[narrow glacier]

wait

[stuck berry]

soul master if he didn't dedicate his life to studying and extracting soul and just stole it off of some snail

[narrow glacier]

WAIT

[stuck berry]

https://x.com/com_jimmee/status/1974712644776182143/photo/2

real slick bub

[narrow glacier]

Yep

[meager drum]

theyre pretty much just a bug known for being a dog parasite being turned into dogs

[stuck berry]

cat-like ticks when

[meager drum]

also grubs are caterpillars instead of actual grubs

[narrow glacier]

Clicks

[stuck berry]

adam sandler spoke of this

[main pond]

shes in some sort of.... song of silks?

[timber pond]

THis is cursed

[earnest marsh]

I understand the shellwood connection but why use Zote's simp's dreams to connect him to a parasite plant thing

[zinc pivot]

Grey color innit

[vague whale]

because it shows Zote's true colors... if you get what I mean...

[timber pond]

this one is funny though

He was warning us the whole timme

[vague jolt]

hornet has a 1:3 betrayal ratio with mothers, and i think that's pretty good

[zinc pivot]

Who betrayed her exactly

[robust wagon]

Greyroot

[zinc pivot]

Wouldn’t that be 1:4 ratio

Actually nvm im just not good with numbers

[vestal swan]

Monomon is mad scientist, so cool, sunovabitch

[vestal swan]

Be really funny if he was somehow tied to greyroot but I doubt it

[sharp valley]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nFSE1tfnVs4?si=uL2hpjgogSm22maU

this guy might be right, this is probably hornets and the knights power, since the pale king could also see the future and they are his children and can also see the future

[vestal swan]

Nah

[sharp valley]

and when you die in silksong, hornet wakes up on the bench and the knight also wakes up on the bench after dying like they just had a prophetic dream

[quick cairn]

There is no proof that those 2 have future sight, but it would be actually so cool if true

[vestal swan]

This is deconfirmed by hornet not having NPC dialogue with certain characters about certain events until after she has killed them despite being able to say things about them if she had seen them in a vision

[quick cairn]

But then how do you explain the shade left behind

[vestal swan]

They don't have future sight

At least not in a way that we've seen it

[vestal swan]

Example multiple times she warns Sherma about the dangers of what she just saw but only after she kills a certain boss

[quick cairn]

Honestly my take on their "deaths" is that it's just gameplay mechanic and in lore they are on that steel soul mode

[vestal swan]

I thought the foresight on death could have been possible for hornet when I died the first time and she woke up on a bench gasping like she just experienced something horrible but the game deconfirms it

[quick cairn]

Is it really a deconfirmation tho?

She took out the biggest threat but the other threats are still there so just warns the little fella

But then if they are visions, how do we explain the cocoon

[olive temple]

wow I just found this video and it's such a cool theory
#sk-lore message

[heady thorn]

who is the first sinner

[fathom hill]

I've heard it before given how Hornet seems to wake up from a dream everytime she dies, it could be she predicting certain events and battles to train, this is either for training purposes or she really has a certain bit of the pale kings power

[young nimbus]

Someone, PLEASE explain to me why the hell is act 3 making all bugs mindless. It's like a infection? Trying to understand the lore

[terse warren]

Quite literally just the Haunting, except it's also infused with Void now

[young nimbus]

Can u explain it with words that my potato head will understand

God how much do u type

😭 🙏

[terse warren]

A Weaver that "raged against the silken lie", from her dialogue "She called us daughters, she called us divine, she lied..." and then when imprisoned by presumably other Weavers. Leading theory is that it's because she would've told everyone about the non-divine nature of Weavers which they needed to have to propaganda other bugs into being obedient towards them.

[young nimbus]

What the duck

I hate autocorrect

[heady thorn]

i thought the line she called us daughters were referring to phantom and lace

[terse warren]

You know how the Haunting is controlling bugs during Act 1 and 2

Same thing, but since GMS is in the Void, the Void is scaling up the threads and Haunting bugs

[terse warren]

It's more likely referring to the Weavers' origins as common Pharlids. The dialogue from Lace's Silk Heart indicates that Lace and Phantom were only made after GMS got betrayed by Weavers.

[young nimbus]

My potato head still doesn't understand shet

[terse warren]

Have you like not played the game

[young nimbus]

I'm just unlocking act 3 gng

[undone musk]

Bugs are puppet on a string controlled by GMS, in act 3 the Abyss takes over the strings and puppets the bugs. 👍

[young nimbus]

Like when I'm back home

[young nimbus]

THANK U

[terse warren]

The Haunting is literally act 1 shit

[young nimbus]

Ik
The GARAMA

[vivid kernel]

why is the Abyss lined with numerous snail shells? it's the exact same shape as the Shaman crest

[worthy nexus]

Can I eat grandmother silk

[terse warren]

That's how it looked in game 1 too it's just looks, doubt there's much lore behind it

[vivid kernel]

there is a connection between the snails and the abyss though

[terse warren]

Yeah but there wasn't in the first game and the abyss looked like this in the first game as well, so, likely just aesthetic

[zinc pivot]

Just ancient invertebraes

[undone musk]

There used to be an ancient civ before hallownest that worshipped the void, they created the arcane eggs and other bits & bobs you could find in HK, since you can also find an arcane egg down there in SS it stands to reason they were likely there before pharloom as well. So that stuff could just be what's left of that civ, but there is no other lore about it afaik.

[winged trench]

Ive seen some people theorize that she's atla

[manic pewter]

Oh ive heard ppl say that arcane eggs are what the shades hatch from

[zinc pivot]

Who are these people

So i can throw lemms notes at them

[manic pewter]

bc like when we see our reflection in the one in abyss theyre saying thats the one we hatched from

[terse warren]

meh

[uncut axle]

Why do i feel like trobbio and karmelita osts are very similar?

[winged trench]

Shades come from the void, the children are from the egg in the abyss which came from white lady
The arcane eggs were information storage devices that predate hallownest by melenia

[manic pewter]

ahhhh so arcane eggs and the eggs in the abyss are different

[winged trench]

Yes

[manic pewter]

very cool very cool

so what is the implication of the writing on the skong arcane egg

[terse warren]

no clue but i saw some people say that maybe the AC tried to hollow themselves out using void like PK did to get vessels

[manic pewter]

oh interesting

[craggy smelt]

it means Pale King didn't have any original ideas

we're gonna find buzzsaws somewhere else and it'll turn out he stole those too

otherwise, it seems as if the ancient civilization saw the Void as a way to be free of qualities that brought them suffering

lore tablets in the Abyss read

In silence your voice,
In darkness your form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace.

Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us.

they apparently wanted to shed these qualities and become a 'Shade' as some better form of existence

it seems Pale King tried to obtain the same thing with his vessels as a means to counter the Radiance

[manic pewter]

something something could that be the origin of the shade lord?

[zinc pivot]

Our knight is the shade lord though

As the one who holds will strong enough to command the void to their bidding

[fresh badger]

Hk's void idols tell us the AC didnt worship an entity like the shade lord, they simply worshipped the darkness

[manic pewter]

ah cool cool

[amber tinsel]

Hey I just started act 3 so is there an explanation based purely on knowledge from act 1 and act 2 which explains why ||Lace wasn’t able to wake up her Mother from the sleep?||

[flint wadi]

you know its a fun idea of a game taking place in the ancient times where everyone is hollowed out at birth and the protagonist somehow averted that fate making them the only "full" bug in their soceity

and yk maybe they have to fight to keep their identity and shit

the inverse of hollow knight basically

[drifting glacier]

are grimm and trobbio connected in any way? idk they seem similar in design 😭

[flint wadi]

no

[drifting glacier]

[craggy smelt]

although the corpse holding the Shade Cloak recognizes the Knight as the Lord of Shades
so its possible the concept existed in their minds even if they never actually worshipped one
(or that thing is still alive somehow...)

[craggy smelt]

Silk's binding wasn't something that could be easily undone, it took time for her to fully awaken
the Caretaker mentions that Lace was striking down pilgrims to keep the Citadel quiet, so she might have been working towards silencing the song that was keeping Silk bound

[flint wadi]

i wonder if she uprooted pious isamor now

[craggy smelt]

he seems like a relic of a time long before the days of clockwork and filigree everywhere

[kind steeple]

I'm without a keyboard so I can't play AO
It has been 1 month and I'm already losing it

Can someone help me with Lore widow?
I want to see if I got it all right

So widow loved GMS and worshipped her. Because of this the weavers removed her mask and did all that silk thing to prevent widow from freeing gms after the weavers seal her as they were planning.
Or they did that for pure spite?

Idk why they would remove widow's mask tho if it was for pure spite.
Doesn't changing/loosing masks change your personality?

[misty zenith]

i love how pharloom is basically the current world governments explained in a game 😭

[valid compass]

imagine team cherry first thought to make mantis lords the guys who trained hornet but then thought it would be weird to call hornet the daughter of five mothers

[zinc pivot]

Widow is quite the topic of dispute, no one really knows who crippled her or why
The only clues we have are her cutscene with her group playing the harp for GMS, and her own presence in the broken harp room in Cradle

[eternal sigil]

anyone recall what is said in the Silk Heart cutscene dialogue from Whiteward?

I think the other two are from the perspective of Grand Mother Silk

• lamenting the nature of Lace ("better a child born frail/mad... than none at alll")
• "come, child, witness our waking"

[arctic patrol]

Higher beings try not to create a child with a specific purpose in mind that's obviously gonna fail challange

[eternal sigil]

could shed more light on GMS maybe

[lucid sinew]

hey, i was wondering about Widow. do we have an idea about who removed her mask and placed the pins in her spine? When i first encountered her i thought it was the citadel that had done that to her, to make her their slave, but after looking at her lore a bit more I'm not sure

[eternal sigil]

well, Lace arguably succeeded in meeting design specs as an eternally youthful, dependent child, but this ended up backfiring spectacularly in Lace deeply resenting her existence

[lucid sinew]

oh damn we were already talking about this lol

[arctic patrol]

She doesn't meet the most important part aka being loyal to her mother, arguably doesn't meet any of them because of it

[eternal sigil]

Nobody concretely knows. Main theories are that this is some kind of penance from the Citadel, or a punishment by the rest of the Weavers when they broke away from obeying GMS

[edgy nebula]

hoyyyyy

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-npc-caretaker-waving-gif-1296244235196704295

[eternal sigil]

tbf she never acted against mom for the overwhelming majority of her existence

Only did so when a moment of critical weakness presented itself

[arctic patrol]

I mean she still hated her deeply and the second she saw Hornet she started disobeying her

[lucid sinew]

it'd make sense if the other weavers did it i guess, but then what about that cage you find in the cradle that talked about capturing a weaver in 1/4 part under the city of steel, and how they had been "staked into service"? Does that not sound like widow, with literal stakes planted in her and in total service to the monarch?

[arctic patrol]

I mean yeah she wanted freedom and she grabbed it when she could it's clear she always hated her divine mother besides that tho

[eternal sigil]

Not even observed in Weaver Queen, implying that she wouldn't rise up against Hornet. Though I suppose that too is disloyalty (didn't save GMS from Hornet's giga succ)

[arctic patrol]

It's interesting that Lace can so easily harm GMS in the first place even if she did get weakend further my Hornet

[edgy nebula]

we have nothing to suggest it was, widow has seemingly always been loyal to gms

it was likely the weavers who mutilated her, atleast thats my theory

[eternal sigil]

evidence we have at the moment indicates Widow is a fullblood Weaver stripped of her mask and mutilated to prevent production of her own Silk

[lucid sinew]

that makes sense, i wonder what "staked into service" means then

[terse warren]

...Their voices... Their song...
...Their memory...
...Bind their shells...
...Bind their souls...
...Bind them all...
...Raise them... Up...
...To devote... Eternal...
...One mind... One union...

...They are ours... Bound forever...

[eternal sigil]

I think this meant the status of the Weaver-born within the City of Steel, not what was done with them by the Choir

[terse warren]

crazy how 99% of GMS's characterization is from Silk Heart dialogue

[eternal sigil]

Which pairs with Steel Seer Zi's mention of everyone in the City of Steel serving the Masters utterly, and something about "compression"

[lucid sinew]

damn i need to do steel soul mode soon

[eternal sigil]

Honestly that would make sense given that the other two Weaver-born were otherwise critically weakened (mortally wounded, really old)

If the Masters messed up the Steel City one that would pair with the general theme

[eternal sigil]

The Steel Soul exclusive content is really interesting in Skong

[zinc pivot]

There are like, 3 things

[eternal sigil]

yeah sounds about right

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/barrel-crush-gif-12925446

i wonder what happens when you get compressed

[zinc pivot]

Weaver sausage

[lucid sinew]

so your theory is the choir bugs went to the city of steel to find this weaver-born, but she was pledged to this master and "compressed" in some way so she wasn't useful to them. Maybe the steel bugs did something similar to widow's mutilation?

[edgy nebula]

i assume you get transformed into one of the steel gems found on steel being’s chests

[lucid sinew]

ohh maybe

[eternal sigil]

I am suspicious it might be what a Steelheart is created from. Zi mentions having suffered it, and never wishing it on another

[edgy nebula]

also compression is a punishment for people disloyal to the masters of the steel

[eternal sigil]

Consider that the Citadel's automata are animated by silkflies, themselves made from the souls of the dead and reformatted by the Whiteward

[lucid sinew]

i feel like there just has to be some sort of follow up on these steel bugs, like what are they up to man what are they doin?

[edgy nebula]

i cant tell if steelhearts are the steel beings or are the masters

[eternal sigil]

Could be that the Masters similarly mangle the essence/souls of disloyal beings to make Steelhearts

[arctic patrol]

Awfully long process to just have soul within you

[eternal sigil]

zi and jinn are either steelhearts or children of steel, I reckon the former because the vassal bugs serve the steelhearts, which would be people like Zi directly

though obviously it is unclear

[edgy nebula]

true yeah

i do wonder what happens if a steel being defies the masters again, will they be ultra compressed

into one of those laser guys that sharpe’s friend uses

[eternal sigil]

sure but you can cram a bunch of them in a giant robot to make an EVA unjt

[quartz salmon]

I think it's the same thing they just have multiple names

[arctic patrol]

Holy fuck this guy knows ball

[eternal sigil]

might be different classes of Steel beings, lower grades being from more recently made or alternatively punished Stewl beings

[edgy nebula]

maybe

[eternal sigil]

Jinn is young and stuck trading repulsive things

[strong sail]

they will be DEpressed

[eternal sigil]

Likewise

[quartz salmon]

Whatever happens in the process it seems that one step is that they grow out of the ground (?) Like how the Growstone item demonstrates

[strong sail]

i actually personally think it has to do with the creation of the steel beings

...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another.

[quartz salmon]

The item is a reminder of Zi's birth, her own words, so that makes me think they grow out of the ground like stalagtites or stalagmites whichever one you want

[strong sail]

my personal guess is that a being is somehow compressed into one-a these
and made to inhabit a steel shell

this consistent design element amongst all steel kingdom Things (except sharpe)

[quartz salmon]

Theyre definately meant to resemble automatons in a meta sense so yeah it's not impossible that they have a central power source

[strong sail]

my guess is that this would bind them closer to servitude

[eternal sigil]

Could be that this is where the special steel that they are made from comes from

[strong sail]

i mean it less as a power source and moreso like
a personality source

that there was some living creature that was compressed into that thing to serve as the basis for zi/jinn

[eternal sigil]

Yep. And Sharpe is clearly either a bug, some kind of Kingsmould-esque void being, or something between

[strong sail]

his proboscis does the void-thorns thing when he whips it around

[fast spruce]

Is Sharpe even canon if he isn't in the game?

[strong sail]

he is OBLIGATED to be put into the game because he's a backer character

he's going to show up eventually because if he doesn't team cherry is probably going to get SUED

[eternal sigil]

coupled with the void ties established with the Steel vassal shellbugs, I think there is something fishy going on

[quartz salmon]

It's definately some kind of Void construct, since the Masters are all about regulating it's use and all

[fast spruce]

Good point tbh

[strong sail]

actually to talk a little more on them

i actually think that jiji is of a higher status in the kingdom than sula

[eternal sigil]

in that case, upping my suspicion of a Steel DLC from likely to certain

It has been teased too damn much

[quartz salmon]

Jiji is Jhin's friend but Sula is just a vassal

So idk it may be like a personal thing between them

[fast spruce]

Guys do you think Lions Den will ever appear?

Same with Barnacle Bay

[quartz salmon]

Maybe they will fill the map with actual lions

[strong sail]

that and jiji also has like
fancier clothing and a larger size

sula just has a bag over their head

[fast spruce]

The 4th act is lions invading Pharloom

[strong sail]

a million lions versus the silk

[quartz salmon]

Realistic lions are raiding pharloom 🚨

[arctic patrol]

Lion ladder VS the unravelled ladder

[strong sail]

if i had to guess the hierarchy of every steel kingdom person we've seen so far

[fast spruce]

Every Vessel VS 1 billion lions

[quartz salmon]

She also has no desire to flee iirc it may just be an age and loyalty thing

[strong sail]

zi
^
jinn
^
jiji
^
sula

that's how they come off to me

[quartz salmon]

Yeah probably

[strong sail]

i feel like that would be worthy of a higher status anyways

[quartz salmon]

Oh one thing that is interesting

In the trailer where we see the Steel assasin bugs

There are a lot of white runes flying off of them

No idea what it's about but it's interesting

[strong sail]

i genuinely really wonder how stuff is gonna work with the steel assassins

these characters are irreversibly tied to steel soul mode but also

putting a bunch of exclusive faction content into the permadeath mode
especially if it's hard as balls

is going to irk people a bit

also, sula is such a small bastard i want to pick them up and shake them theyre SO CUTE

[quartz salmon]

They're not gonna lock it behind steel soul

It's gonna be a normal thing

Otherwise people would be turned off by it

And it's either gonna be us going to the Steel city or maybe a long questline all around Pharloom

[strong sail]

hopefully we'll get that rival-feeling to sharpe

as much as lace showed up a few times she didn't really feel like a proper rival

especially since with how things went for me it felt more funny than anything

lace coming in and trying to taunt me after her piss-poor performance in the last fight we had

lace 1 was one of few bosses i first-tried

[zinc pivot]

Most lace encounter we have aren’t notable ngl

[quartz salmon]

I guess Hornet just shows up more throughout the first game

[strong sail]

she shows up a lot more and has a lot more genuine threat

[whole holly]

i hope so, but maybe steel soul may have additional content about steel hearts, rather than exclusive

[strong sail]

the city of tears encounter and the brief glimpses of her before she runs off

[zinc pivot]

With Hornet in base game, we see her sneaking around in Greenpath, chasing her to City, a brief talk before Hornet 2, dialogue in Abyss and in Beast Den

[strong sail]

i think lace shows up a single time that's not related to a battle

well
if you fight her in deep docks anyway

[whole holly]

yeah, she is like mean girl and that's it, not even hard enemy especially during first fight, i beat her on first try

[zinc pivot]

Well, twice
If you skip her through Flea or Wormways

[strong sail]

yeah

[strong sail]

the tall ants have her moveset for some reason

am i the only one who noticed that all of the tall ant's attacks are literally just lace attacks

[zinc pivot]

I mean
Theres only the dash attack and the swing attack

[strong sail]

the attack where they jump up and dash down is also a lace attack

[zinc pivot]

Lace somersault on air for that though

She also parries

[strong sail]

the block is kinda a worse parry

eh

in any case
im hoping sharpe really makes me feel pursued

maybe it could be like
start the quest and random encounters start happening like with clawmaidens in the citadel

but all over the world instead

[zinc pivot]

Sharpe more like Revek

[quartz salmon]

My ideal dlc content thing would be Hornet starts getting chased around by these bugs, then tracks them down to a hideout in Pharloom where she fights Sharpe but doesn't kill them and then has a motive to go to the Steel city

By boat through the poop bay

[strong sail]

thinking about getting a whole new map as an expansion is wild but at the same time

i feel like its possible

[quartz salmon]

I'm not sayin like a whole new map

But sailing to like a place with 3~ new areas would be cool

[granite tinsel]

Potentially stupid question but it’s been bugging me.

How are pilgrims starting their pilgrimage from Bonebottom? Are we to assume there is an entrance to Pharloom in the bottom that Hornet does not find? That’s the only thing that makes sense to me but there may also be an obvious thing I’ve forgotten/missed that addresses this.

Kind of like how (hollow knight) ||there is an implied exit from the hallownest abyss into deepnest that we don’t use in game but is shown through the environment||

[tiny socket]

I had the same question a while back, and it wasn’t resolved. The chapel maid assumes hornet is “another pilgrim scuttled from the darkness” suggesting pilgrims come from either the desolate wastes or apparate into existence wherever shadow may fall

There is no visible exit from bone bottom that I can see, however it could be a case of 3d space

[granite tinsel]

I have to check if there’s pilgrim corpses in moss grotto or the chapel at all. But if there’s pilgrims dying even before Bonebottom that’s a whole separate issue lmao

[trim lark]

i mean right at the back of the chapel is bonegrave
a place where pilgrims that died before even making it to bonebottom were laid to rest presumably
aswell as the location of the chapel of the wanderer

[granite tinsel]

that’s is true

[tiny socket]

There’s steel soul content left of the chapel right?

[trim lark]

while yes its not anything really important
sula kinda just manages to open up a small lil cave which im pretty sure doesnt have any lore relevance outside of the quest

[tiny socket]

So that’s definitely not an entrance to pharloom?

[trim lark]

doesnt appear to be
might have to check back on that though

[worthy veldt]

Hey I’m confused about the lore. What’s the relationship between grandmother silk and the church?

[dense aspen]

If the knight were to fight lost lost after like becoming the lost lost lost, could he absorb her

[flint wadi]

can we call shade lord lost lost

[dense aspen]

Deal

[earnest sparrow]

i have a theory that all the characters in SS are insects, just like in HK

[dense aspen]

Where is your evidence all the charaters in hk are insects

[zinc pivot]

Citadel used to exploit Silk when shes sealed, now she controls them all

[dense aspen]

Because they arent

Oh and same thing with ss

You're just wrong on this

[zinc pivot]

Mushroom arent insects
White Lady (a Root) isn’t insect
Snail Shamans aren’t insect

A literal silk spool isn’t insect
Her silk dolls/children aren’t insect

[fallen lily]

||is the everbloom flower th same as the one in hollow knight? Which we had to deliver without getting hit and all||

[light mauve]

Probably they are the descendants of their ancestors who came there from the wasteland

[earnest sparrow]

headcanon

mushrooms are pretty buglike

he got a face, he can speak, he bug

[light mauve]

Spiders are not insects

[earnest sparrow]

nah fr tho i feel like the mushrooms aren't actually mushrooms

[earnest sparrow]

i mean the colloquial term, like bugs

not true insects

[lofty crane]

Spiders don't even fall under the loose insect term

[earnest sparrow]

aren't bug and insect interchangeable?

[lofty crane]

Are there even any true insects in HK?

[earnest sparrow]

colloquially

[lofty crane]

I don't think so, could be wrong but insect generally means six legged

[earnest sparrow]

like arachnids can be refered to as bugs

i was using the word insect more like 'bug' rather than the traditional meaning of insect

[lofty crane]

I have a literal field guide that says it's a field guide to "insects and spiders" so

[earnest sparrow]

that uses the traditional meaning no?

[lofty crane]

And it shows a lot more than true insects

[earnest sparrow]

insect usually refers to 6 legged yes, but i was using it here more as "bug"

[light mauve]

Robots are not bugs

[earnest sparrow]

they are tho?

[light mauve]

Robots?

[earnest sparrow]

they're the white flies

[lofty crane]

What about the craws?

[earnest sparrow]

the craws are bugs

[jovial trail]

Isn’t Nyleth straight up called not a bug?

[light mauve]

What about the flying thing on top of mount fey

[earnest sparrow]

the robots are controlled by the silk flies

[earnest sparrow]

...that's a moth

[light mauve]

Also what about the mice?

[lofty crane]

That is definitely not a moth

[atomic dirge]

those are mites

[earnest sparrow]

those are mites, they're arachnids

[granite tinsel]

They got bug wings (some of them at least) and big buggy eyes

[light mauve]

Yeah

[earnest sparrow]

that is a moth lol

[lofty crane]

How is that a moth?

[spare pendant]

Yes

[atomic dirge]

it's a bug-ified bird like the craws

[whole holly]

Nyleth, Unn, Snail Shamans, Nightmare Heart, isma, Greyroot, White lady aren't bugs

[jovial trail]

Also spiders technically aren’t bugs

[light mauve]

Alr that’s a bug for sure but ts is too disappointing for the all mighty moth

[spare pendant]

Double tail feathers and fur pattern resembles real-world snow moths very, very well.

[earnest sparrow]

i mean, moths are fluffy, winged insects. the mt. fay creature is definitely based off a moth

[granite tinsel]

You could argue the craws are like mosquitoes or smth and their “beaks” are their proboscis

[atomic dirge]

GMS, Lace and Phantom aren't bugs either i think

[spare pendant]

They are.

[kind steeple]

Yeah I'm just asking if I got something that's explicitly wrong or most of it is speculation

[drowsy vessel]

there is no exit to sky anywhere...

[light mauve]

Who then

[lofty crane]

They're called "craw bugs" so they're probably just crows but also bugs

[atomic dirge]

they're silk creatures, lace and phantom were spun to act as bugs but they aren't really

[spare pendant]

their beaks are definitely not proboscis

[earnest sparrow]

the beaks are probably not part of the body too

[jovial trail]

Idk if hitboxes should be taken as canon

[spare pendant]

i think the normal beaks are, and the metal beaks are clothes

[atomic dirge]

Lace: Congratulations, spider. Finally, I felt your sting, and you've bared the truth of my pathetic empty shell.
Hornet: You always had the scent, child. You are no bug. Yours is a life born entirely from thread.

[drowsy vessel]

why not

[light mauve]

Hey what about worms

[earnest sparrow]

yeah the metal beaks seem like accessories

[spare pendant]

because they're solely there for gameplay lol

[atomic dirge]

yeah the metal beaks are just their jury duty fit

[light mauve]

Guys worms aren’t bugs. So not everybody is a bug in Silksong

[atomic dirge]

specifically for small craws and Crawfather

[jovial trail]

They are probably there just so you don’t go out of bounds if something breaks

[lofty crane]

Also there's the alchemist, he doesn't look like a bug

[earnest sparrow]

people refer to worms and snails as bugs tho?

[atomic dirge]

tallcraw jurors and squatcraw jurors lack metal beaks

[spare pendant]

Bug is not a taxonomical category. Bug is entirely arbitrary, like fish, and applies to basically any small or fucked up creature that isn't a mammal, fish, bird, etc.

[earnest sparrow]

bugs (colloquial term)

[atomic dirge]

yeah no thats a bug

[lofty crane]

Oh ok

[drowsy vessel]

No, the Hornet stops much earlier than the wall appears.
Besides, you won't be able to use your super jump anyway

[light mauve]

This also works but worms are also not bugs

[lofty crane]

Probably thinking of post-lifeblood

[earnest sparrow]

worms can be refered to as bugs

[earnest sparrow]

stop using ai

[light mauve]

I literally googled it

[lofty crane]

Anything can be referred to as a bug

But worms and snails are not bugs

[spare pendant]

This is irrelevant, invisible walls are often placed everywhere as a preventative measure for possible exploits

[earnest sparrow]

bugs are a loosely defined colloquial term for creepy crawlies

[spare pendant]

You're literally using ai pack it up 😭

[earnest sparrow]

i would agree with this

[spare pendant]

"Caps" (Shrumals) are also not bugs

[light mauve]

Ok and? I was still right

[earnest sparrow]

its ai

[atomic dirge]

actually to correct myself the journal comment from hornet says Lace is a "bug born entirely from thread" so i guess she and phantom count

[spare pendant]

AI is not a source

[light mauve]

I also looked in links below

[earnest sparrow]

the shrooms a curious one beacuse i wonder if they're animated by some sort of bug or bug-like organism

[spare pendant]

Silkborn can be "maybe bugs" I guess

[dense aspen]

Silkborn? What are you talking about?

[earnest sparrow]

kinda bug-adjacent tbh

[atomic dirge]

lace and phantom

[lofty crane]

Are the vessels bugs? Can't remember

[spare pendant]

The Herald says they're separate from bugs I think

[earnest sparrow]

ehh, not sure about vessels

[light mauve]

It literally says in wiki

[spare pendant]

Also eva

[earnest sparrow]

ah

[dense aspen]

Phantom? Who's that?

[dense aspen]

I forgot?

[earnest sparrow]

phantom is the organ player

[sinful nimbus]

"You always had the scent, child. You are no bug. Yours is a life born entirely from thread."

[dense aspen]

Eva was born out of the silk?

[dense aspen]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh who?

[spare pendant]

I'm replying to a message where hornet calls her a bug made of thread

[dense aspen]

I'm at lost lace btw

[spare pendant]

Yeah

[lofty crane]

Past The Mist

[sinful nimbus]

Oh interesting

TC try to be consistent challenge

[dense aspen]

Ah ok don't give a shit

[light mauve]

Did you beat act 1

[atomic dirge]

wait what i dont think this is mentinoed anywhere

[lofty crane]

Lmao

[dense aspen]

I'm at lost lace. No I did not beat act 1

[lofty crane]

Tbf it's super easy to miss Phantom in Act 1

[atomic dirge]

yeah you're lost alright

[spare pendant]

You can bind her as sylphsong

[earnest sparrow]

i don't think its TC being inconsistient but rather the in-universe characters having a difference in what they consider life

[sinful nimbus]

This is the same character

[atomic dirge]

i don't know if that makes her silk

[sinful nimbus]

Also "Bug" isn't the in universe term for all life

[earnest sparrow]

ah

[earnest sparrow]

i never said it was?

[sinful nimbus]

Then why would what Hornet considers life be relevant

[earnest sparrow]

it's not

[eternal sigil]

I think the mushrooms and the roots (Greyroot and the Bud) are the only non-invertebrate folk currently depicted, unless the Mosskin are actually animated moss

[atomic dirge]

Hornet: "Are you too an attempt to defy that cruel constraint?"
Eva: "A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers but my senses are my own."

[earnest sparrow]

i couldn't find the term i was looking for so i used that word

[spare pendant]

I've called myself a human and non-human on several occasions. It's a pretty normal trait (flaw?) to use apparently contradicting language in different contexts.

[atomic dirge]

wait might be, since weaver runes are silk

[sinful nimbus]

This is the same context

[eternal sigil]

crawbugs are, as named, bugs despite their explicit similarities to birds

[sinful nimbus]

Its literally just an oversight

[whole holly]

Eva: "A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers but my senses are my own."

[eternal sigil]

runes appear to (at least, going off of Lost Sinner stuff) be a synonym for shaped silk with arcane applications

[atomic dirge]

did you mean first sinner

[spare pendant]

One is talking to lace after realizing the truth and one is documenting the truth in a journal. That's objectively wrong.

[atomic dirge]

what mods do to a mf

jokes aside yeah that makes sense

[eternal sigil]

yes I keep thinking of Dark Souls 2, the souls game of all time and an early hollowlike

[whole holly]

Rune is Silk, Shell most likely stuff like Shell Shard or something similar

[spare pendant]

her shell is her tank actually

she says it herself

[earnest sparrow]

hornet probably doesn't consider Lace a bug, but for the sake of finding a term for 'person', she used 'bug' in the journal as a synonym of such

[dense aspen]

Who? Hornet?

[eternal sigil]

but yeah Eva appears to be a bunch of Silk/Soul that lives inside the equivalent of an iron lung

[spare pendant]

Eva on first meeting

[dense aspen]

Qh ok

[earnest sparrow]

'bug' as bug and 'bug' as person is how i see it

[zinc pivot]

So eva is
Silk and Soul

[atomic dirge]

SORT OF a bug: Lace, Phantom, Eva, maybe GMS???
not a bug: Greyroot, Nyleth

[dense aspen]

Why is hornet so fragile?

[sinful nimbus]

There is no reason to percieve Lace as a bug in one context but not another when in both contexts she is describing the same entity's same qualities

[eternal sigil]

Silk & Steel more aptly but yeah pretty much

[dense aspen]

Is it because she's only half a higher being?

[zinc pivot]

Sealed for a long time

[atomic dirge]

pharloom got hands

[dense aspen]

How long?

[zinc pivot]

And fell off a cliff

[earnest marsh]

For anyone interested I've made a short doc where I've linked the weaver's names to their respective abilities
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Nn8SUatFP6USv6yCocd_SUoBzvn79a3ZJT56aaWU_o/edit?usp=sharing

I'd love input on the last 2 Abilities though since it's a bit unsatisfying having those 2 loose ends

[earnest sparrow]

she's percieved as not a bug, but i think the entry in the journal uses 'bug' meaning person rather than an actual bug

[spare pendant]

People's perceptions of finer details are fickle and nobody is perfect. Again, I literally do the same thing talking about myself. I'm a therian and I call myself a human and a non-human depending on the day.

[eternal sigil]

meanwhile Lace is made of Skilk™

[zinc pivot]

Idk maybe long enough
Pharloom is pretty Phar from Hallownest

[whole holly]

i am aware

[jovial trail]

Are wyrms bugs?

[earnest sparrow]

also using 'bug' in the journal might be usage of flowery language

[spare pendant]

No

[sinful nimbus]

Okay but this is a character in a video game giving story details to us, the audience

[earnest sparrow]

bug has multiple meanings in SS

[spare pendant]

Hornet is not talking to us, she is writing in her journal.

[sinful nimbus]

Yes which we read

[spare pendant]

Okay?

[sinful nimbus]

Its a bestiary

We are meant to read it

[dense aspen]

I wonder sometimes how diffrent the bunter journal would be if someone else wrote it

[spare pendant]

You're just saying things

[zinc pivot]

Bug would count as human beings/ sentient beings in our world

[spare pendant]

I mean we kinda see that in hk1

[atomic dirge]

stupid theory but

i have a feeling Atla might be First Sinner

[earnest sparrow]

characters in SS/HK use the word 'bug' meaning 'people' yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Do you actually believe the intent is for TC to communicate clearly that she's imperfect by inconsistently describing Lace as a bug because that's absurd and not at all relevant to her character or Lace's

[earnest marsh]

It’s interesting but that would leave 2 abilities and one named weaver which I find weird you know

[dense aspen]

Wait is our journal called the same in both games?

[lofty crane]

True bugs/insects are specifically Hemiptera, while bugs are typically used to refer to the phylum Arthropoda, and insect is used to refer to the subphylum Hexapoda.
Snails are part of phylum Mollusca, meaning it is not a bug.
Segmented worms (what I would assume the wormways worms are) are phylum Annelida, meaning the worms are also not bugs

[earnest marsh]

Since all the ability shrines have dead bodies in them

[eternal sigil]

Wyrms are to bugs as Zeus is to people

[atomic dirge]

Atla's effigy being found in the slab (where First Sinner is), saying people will remember her and her name will be sacred
almost like she did something very important, like maybe finding the weavers' true origin

[spare pendant]

The two lines have reason for their opposite meanings in context. Even if it is an "oversight", it's literally not even an actual flaw because it's character dialogue 😭

[spare pendant]

yes

[earnest sparrow]

wyrms can be considered a bug depending on what definition you use

[sinful nimbus]

These two dialogues have the same sentiment

[earnest sparrow]

second definition

[sinful nimbus]

Lace's status as a bug or not is literally irrelevant to their overarching meanings

[lofty crane]

You can consider a worm a bug, but they aren't actually

[earnest sparrow]

they are not bugs but they can be considered one colloquially

[lofty crane]

Yeah but they aren't actually so does it matter?

[spare pendant]

This isn't correct. Firstly, "true bug" is taxonomical and isn't relevant here. "Bug", on the other hand, is a "loosely-defined colloquial term" as somebody else pointed out. Taxonomy is irrelevant to colloquial linguistic perception of creatures as bugs.

[earnest marsh]

True, it does kinda feel right
But then again effigies are carried by random non-weavers who worshiped weavers, and for the weaver of time a prayer about history makes sense like how the other 2 effigies are also prayers

I’m torn on this because I would hate for there to be an unequal amount of abilities and names - it currently feels so perfect

[torn lagoon]

where do the pilgrims originate from? I think it's safe to rule out Hallownest but we know there are tons of them and I think we don't see any on the surface so where do they come from?

[sinful nimbus]

Wyrms are dragons 🤓

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom natives

[dense aspen]

Ah

[dense aspen]

No they arent

[torn lagoon]

what's their place of origin tho like they dont have their own, only camps like bone bottom, halfway home, pilgrim's rest, bellhart etc

[earnest sparrow]

hemiptera is a specific order of insects as well, so a lot of HK/SS characters wouldn't be considered "bugs" by that definition

[zinc pivot]

Theres anywhere
And theres when a male and female pilgrim love each other like the lacenet ship….

[spare pendant]

The first line is her talking to Lace about how she realized that her life is synthetic. The second is documenting Lace after the fact. I would make the exact same choices as Hornet there.

[lofty crane]

True bug I just looked up the (class) for? Because I wanted to point that out
And if we're talking about if everything in the game is a bug then technically it is relevant

[sacred heath]

until i see PK sprouting wings and breathing fire I’m gonna chock this one up to insanity

[atomic dirge]

Camora->Silkspear, Cindril->Swift Step, Absolom->Silk Soar, Keelal->Cling Grip and Karn->Sharpdart all make perfect direct sense

[sinful nimbus]

What?

Why would she change her mind after that

[twin dragon]

Some come from out of pharloom

[atomic dirge]

and Eva->Sylphsong, GMS->Pale Nails and Widow->Needolin are like literally shown to you

[sinful nimbus]

Its not really clear

[spare pendant]

Because it's not that deep and people are fickle about stupid pointless shit all the time??

[sacred heath]

hang on hang on what are you two actually arguing about

[atomic dirge]

and ofc First Sinner has Rune Rage

[spare pendant]

i ate star's bait

[sinful nimbus]

Because this is a character giving us a lore dump I'm more inclined to think its an oversight on Team Cherry's part

[earnest sparrow]

I also think the journal entry uses the word bug as 'person', refering to her as a person, but also could be using poetic language to describe the artifical construct Lace is

[zinc pivot]

Who we assume is atla

[earnest marsh]

Don’t forget rune rage

[sinful nimbus]

It is not that deep I never claimed it to be deep its literally just an oversight

[spare pendant]

because you always want that to be true

[lofty crane]

Who made the scissors in Greymoor?

[sinful nimbus]

Even if that was true it wouldn't mean I was wrong

[sacred heath]

who assumes that

[torn lagoon]

hope it does in a DLC or something cause Pilgrim's start at the bottom and they don't have a perma town anywhere there and the marrow is literally built with millions of corpses of pilgrims so we know they come in hordes and a lot and keep coming in the haunting as well

[earnest sparrow]

new theory: Pale King is a lizard

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I have no argument so I have to try and discredit my opponent personally

[trim lark]

i wanna say that the gear made for the moor workers was forged by deep docks but im unsure

[spare pendant]

It means you're arguing in bad faith and your conclusion is based on fallacious reasoning.

[trim lark]

the fuck is fallacious

[zinc pivot]

Anyone who saw her silhouette in weavenest atla snare room

[spare pendant]

Fallacies are flaws in logic.

[sinful nimbus]

Really? How did you come to that conclusion

[spare pendant]

I'm blocking you, now.

[lofty crane]

Oh better question: do we have any clue who the corpse we bind for the reaper crest is? Or the wanderer crest?

[sinful nimbus]

God bless

[earnest marsh]

All the weavers have similar shapes with minor variations

[spare pendant]

Reaper is some dreg collector

[zinc pivot]

I did say assume

[earnest marsh]

I’d assume wanderer is random pilgrim which explains the range since they have short arms

[lofty crane]

If it's just some random collector, why is there a chapel around their corpse?

[trim lark]

reaper - some sort of powerful dude who may have been in charge of catching dregs
wanderer - maybe a pilgrim leader? some sort of martyr that the pilgrims collectively look up too

[earnest sparrow]

maybe they were important to the locals

[zinc pivot]

Because they are the cool one

[torn lagoon]

damn this bug lore shit gets serious

[spare pendant]

Probably not entirely random, I'd imagine they were quite appreciated

[trim lark]

imagine having to fight a dreg catcher amped up to 11 like watcher at the edge

[spare pendant]

Starpengu just stirs shit in this channel like 90% of the time

[lofty crane]

Yeah that makes sense

[earnest sparrow]

oh yeah

[atomic dirge]

ok so basically

[zinc pivot]

Every hit steal your silk

[atomic dirge]

Atla's effigy is found in the slab, behind a key of apostate door

[earnest sparrow]

why do the greymor bugs even carry scissors? are they trying to cut the silk that haunts?

in a similar manner to the fire bugs burning silk

[spare pendant]

They're cutting silk for harvest

[earnest sparrow]

ah

[spare pendant]

The rain in greymoor is actually silk

[atomic dirge]

and it mentions Atla being "sacred" and her name being remembered
which would line up with First Sinner finding the truth abt weavers
but i might just be saying shit

[spare pendant]

Before the haunting, their job was to harvest and collect silk for the citadel

[earnest sparrow]

where's that mentioned? I always thought it was sewage

[zinc pivot]

Why do they need to cut them though
Like they have dreg catchers to catch them all

Does silk fall off in giant mats or sth

[spare pendant]

There's an enemy in greymoor who collects the silk with his staff as it falls

[earnest marsh]

There’s 3 weaver effigies which praise weavers so it’s not unique to her tbh

[earnest sparrow]

oh

[lofty crane]

Probably to just make it neater?

[earnest sparrow]

i guess the rain could be a combination of both sewage and silk

[trim lark]

greymoor silk collection process

1. fallen silk threads are collected, usually by those sun like things on a stick
2. silk is cut and/or spun into a spool
3. silk is sent up to the citadel, assumedly because they either get paid or they think it will earn them some sort of 'holiness'

[lofty crane]

To separate spools maybe?

[atomic dirge]

btw i'm stupid

[earnest sparrow]

what's the enemy called?

[spare pendant]

lemme check

[atomic dirge]

i just realized the effigies were written to weavers by normal fuckin bugs so wouldnt make sense for them to praise FS for knowing teh truth

[zinc pivot]

Just dreg catchers right?

[atomic dirge]

so just scratch everything i said

[earnest sparrow]

dreg catcher?

[lofty crane]

It's both enemies with the weird shapes staffs

[torn lagoon]

dreg

[fresh dune]

ZOTE IS FROM SHELLWOOD WHAT??!??!?!??

[earnest marsh]

Yeah no worries that’s what theorising is all about

[earnest sparrow]

oh yeah i see it, im reading their lines

[trim lark]

the main argument is the vicinity and the fact that its behind an apostate door

[lofty crane]

The weird long trident ones and the small ones foo

[trim lark]

the sword is
as for himself we dont know

[atomic dirge]

we don't know if the sword is

[fresh dune]

oh alr

[past cypress]

Presumably because Moorwing eats you if you try to leave or quit

[atomic dirge]

Life Ender is carved from shellwood (material), not shellwood (location)

[trim lark]

life ender is made from shellwood

[trim lark]

oh yeah that too i forgor

[zinc pivot]

Funny how they just
Dont kill moorwing

[trim lark]

well yeah the swords basically from shellwood
its possible it was sold outside

[torn lagoon]

sword is made from shellwood (common noun) material which could've been gotten from anywhere

[spare pendant]

• Dreg catchers catch the silk with their staff
• Thread rakers pile dregs of silk in preparation for respooling
• Silk snippers cut and spool fallen dregs of silk

[past cypress]

Moorwing is tough as fuck

[earnest marsh]

Thank you finally someone saying this
We don’t know if Sherwood in completely unique to Pharloom

[lofty crane]

Well that's what Zote says. He also says that he's a fearsome warrior

[earnest sparrow]

yeah that makes sense

[trim lark]

ok thats fair

[zinc pivot]

They are cleanly cut into rotisserie by the fleas

[earnest sparrow]

could shellwood (HK) refer to petrified insect shells?

[trim lark]

also doesnt shellwood grow from nyleths whole shabang

[zinc pivot]

So silk issue for the moors

[earnest sparrow]

like petrified wood

[past cypress]

After it's already dead

[atomic dirge]

i remember hearing shellwood (material) is used for shields though i have no source on that

[lofty crane]

I thought Shellwood grew from Greyroot

[earnest sparrow]

shellwood from Shellwood could also possibly be an import product from Pharloom

[atomic dirge]

no Shellwood grew from Nyleth

[spare pendant]

Nyleth is the founder of shellwood

[trim lark]

i doubt a singular disgruntled greymoor worker couldve defeated moorwing
maybe if they all rose up to resist itd be possible but they didnt do that

[atomic dirge]

Greyroot is just There

[trim lark]

'the seed that sprung the wood' or something

[atomic dirge]

being a menace to society

[earnest sparrow]

what even is Greyroot anyway

[trim lark]

no idea

[zinc pivot]

Not a higher being thats for sure

[earnest sparrow]

they give me fungal vibes

[lofty crane]

So why does Greyroot look so similar to Shellwood then?

[torn lagoon]

it's related to grey prince zote (source: trust me)

[zinc pivot]

A malicious threat to souls alike being devourer of souls

Eva hate that shit

[spare pendant]

Greyroot is definitely a higher being post-ending

Basically, Greyroot is an abor

[gets shot 47 times]

[lofty crane]

The true ending cutscene confirms ||Godhome|| ending as cannon right?

[earnest sparrow]

what's || godhome || ending

[zinc pivot]

Or DNM

[lofty crane]

The pantheon 5 one

[torn lagoon]

idk man there's probably like 20-30 workers that we see in the entirety of greymoor and that guy can fly, they're pretty much screwed

[earnest sparrow]

what does pantheon 5 mean

[spare pendant]

DNM or (more likely) ETV are canon to act 3, other endings are canon up to act 2

[zinc pivot]

You haven’t done boss rush in base game?

[lofty crane]

Well not sealed Sibling

[spare pendant]

hollow knight 1

[earnest sparrow]

i can't even complete the lowest level of pantheon

[zinc pivot]

Those are pantheons
Five is the entirety of Hk bosses

[torn lagoon]

there's 2 godhome endings

[spare pendant]

sealed sibling is canon to hk1, it might be canon to silksong if the seal can be broken (unknown)

[earnest sparrow]

ive only beaten ending 1 of hollow knight

[past cypress]

Secret third option: Sealed Siblings is canon and Hornet just broke out

[zinc pivot]

So the Hollow Knight ending

[lofty crane]

I feel like that causes more than a couple of problems lol

[zinc pivot]

What the hell go do dream no more right now

[torn lagoon]

wdym by canon? I think it's the ending 2nd most likely to be actually canon

[earnest sparrow]

what does that mean 😭

[zinc pivot]

Kill Radiance

[earnest sparrow]

idk how to get to radiance

[trim lark]

hornet would have to DIE to get out

[lofty crane]

Have you done true ending in Silksong?

[spare pendant]

it's one of several endings that can canonically lead to silksong depending on player choice

[earnest sparrow]

i haven't figured out how to do it, don't spoil me how

[trim lark]

why are you here

[torn lagoon]

yeah i've done every ending except witch

[earnest sparrow]

i played silksong?

[trim lark]

its the lore channel if youre here trying to not get spoiled for something youre taking a fools errand

[lofty crane]

Ok I actually misread what you previously said lmao

[left tapir]

GMS vs Pale King, who was the better parent? 🤔

[zinc pivot]

Both are equally ass

[earnest sparrow]

i read and watch about HK lore but i manage to avoid spoiling myself on the endings

[earnest sparrow]

Pale King for sure

[lofty crane]

Ok so since Act 3 ending has DNM ending as cannon, wouldn't that mean THK is just chilling back in Hallownest?

[lofty crane]

At least GMS cared about 1 of the children

[zinc pivot]

Hk is with the bros in the abyss

[sacred heath]

PK did too

[zinc pivot]

In ETV they survive

[atomic dirge]

if DNM is canon THK is in the abyss as a shade
if ETV is canon THK is just chilling

[lofty crane]

Yeah but 1/2 is a lot higher than 1/1000000000000...

[torn lagoon]

that's a toughie

the dad accidentally loved his kid too much that he failed to save the kingdom, but he also had countless of his kids dead, 90% sure didn't spend do any parenting on hornet cause she wasn't a pure god

[torn lagoon]

and we have the granny who loves lace but just wanted to use her other kids as weavers to do weaver shit (idfk)

[zinc pivot]

I will give GMS a marginal upscale
For trying to save Lace

[atomic dirge]

weavers arent her kids she just gaslit them into thinking they were

[zinc pivot]

Despite the one who caused Lace to do it

[lofty crane]

But in DNM don't we see THK walking out of the black egg?

[atomic dirge]

that's ETV

[torn lagoon]

yeah i know

[lofty crane]

Wait what's ETV again?

[atomic dirge]

godhome ending

[coral totem]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aTCyDSkA-Xg?si=ivk6chI7NiBNMWbc this looked lore important, thought i should throw it into here

[lofty crane]

Wait then what's DNM?

[atomic dirge]

True ending

[torn lagoon]

also she kinda abandoned phantom for not looking femine or something? they're both shittty shittt shittt parents

[lofty crane]

Ok

[atomic dirge]

Phantom was not pure enough i think idk

[lofty crane]

Ok so I'm confused now

Is DNM or ETV cannon to the act 3 ending?

[sacred heath]

still have no idea if this screenshot is or

[atomic dirge]

GMS wanted a pure child who would help her wake up in case the weavers or someone tried to pull a fast one on her again

least that's what i got from the wiki

[zinc pivot]

Dunno
Its tc being vague as fuck about it and edge us with silhouette of siblings AND Void Given Focus

[stray wing]

it should etv considering lord of shades appeared, why should it matter between the two actually

[atomic dirge]

"...Better a child spun frail... than none... ...Better a child spun pure... than them... ...One to wish our waking... ...From our Silk... A child born loyal..."

[torn lagoon]

i like the idea it was cause of the feminine sense as well as you can lace is built like... yeah.

[zinc pivot]

Lace is mini Grand Mother Silk

[atomic dirge]

im p sure Lace's supposed to look like shes wearing those weird ass baggy fancy pants

[lofty crane]

If it's ETV, then THK is wandering around Hallownest or smth

[sacred heath]

yeah I just see pants whenever I look at her sprite

[lofty crane]

Wait what are the Wraiths in The Mist?

[atomic dirge]

reflection of someone else (phantom?)'s will in silk

[stray wing]

the only way i saw lace's design was as if she was wearing this kind of fencing attire

[atomic dirge]

"Not a bug but a projection of another's will in smog and Silk."

[torn lagoon]

i forgot lace is also not fully white like i think my brain took made of silk too literally

[pine plume]

I'm pretty sure Lord of shades doesn't actually appear, hornet just has a sort of vision of what the knight could be

[trim lark]

pantaloons

[stray wing]

funny name

[torn lagoon]

i think team cherry is team cherrying and not making any sole ending the canon one cause they said once that they will try to make future content support all endings

[atomic dirge]

ok bro what is that angle

[stray wing]

it's just cloth !!

[pine plume]

Yea

[stray wing]

i love lace

[atomic dirge]

yea ik it just looked funny

[torn lagoon]

i was playing hades 2 just now and its good but i think i prefer the team cherry approach of "ok so here's the lore, if you like it you like it but you can interpret 90% of it anyway you want, nothing is strict" better

[spare pendant]

hmm im kinda not sure what information to include about paleness

[torn lagoon]

2 insanely different games and types of story it's not a comparision or critique of hades 2

[spare pendant]

like this is good but with the pale beings there's so much to say and also not a lot at the same time

[torn lagoon]

so does the pale lady create the flowers (i dont remember)

[spare pendant]

no

[atomic dirge]

ik it wasnt the intent but the idea of GMS going "shit i made phantom too gnc into the exhaust organ you go" is really fucking funny

[spare pendant]

ze'emer brought them from faraway lands

hornet just remembers white lady showing her one

this is so funny btw i hope this gets added to the main wiki in some shape or form

[lofty crane]

I just had to rewatch that cutscene, yeah that sounds about right

[torn lagoon]

oh shit yeah, ze'emer being one of the 5 knights probably gave it to the lady and she showed her

[spare pendant]

repeatedly described as being Pale.[2][25][26][27][28][29]

[atomic dirge]

kris deltarune pronouns looking ass

[torn lagoon]

dude i know the pale king not being there in the red memory speaks for how much of a deadbeat or race purist he was but man i wish we saw the pale king speak in real time

[spare pendant]

the pale king just didnt raise hornet, she was a gift to the nest

[lofty crane]

Yeahhh

[proud swan]

Also the mask

[spare pendant]

mask?

[half cobalt]

is lace a pale being?

[lofty crane]

I like that we got to see Vespa

But also since we saw Vespa I have a question: why was she so big in the background of HK?

[torn lagoon]

no need to raise her but red memory implies he wasn't present there at all

[spare pendant]

Hornet to Lace:

What is your role here, pale child? Do you abide the silk sickness that strikes this land? Do you aid it? Or would you fight against it?
The answer is probably?

[torn lagoon]

because of that i thought vespa was the dream warrior in the hive earlier at first

[spare pendant]

She eventually grew too large to leave the Hive

[lofty crane]

Huh

[torn lagoon]

does this mean granny silk can reproduce asexually

[spare pendant]

the dream spirit is vespa yes

[spare pendant]

also kinda

[lofty crane]

So that means that it had to have been longer than I thought between Hornet's training and the events of the first game then

[spare pendant]

she can create children but not of her own species

[torn lagoon]

oh so the giant corpse and the dream warrior are the same?

https://tenor.com/view/of-course-gif-21373815

[spare pendant]

hive knight is different

[lofty crane]

Interesting that Vespa's ghost showed up as smaller

[torn lagoon]

reminds me of star wars 6 having young darth vader appear instead of the fried chicken one (in the special edition)

[spare pendant]

these are both vespa

[zinc pivot]

Im thinking that GMS body consist of only silk with a hint of divinity

When hornet binds Silk she unravels like a spool

[lofty crane]

Is GMS a higher being or a pale being?

[spare pendant]

both

[lofty crane]

Ok

[torn lagoon]

why didn't the bees make tool and excavate the hive to let their queen out? are they stupid?

[zinc pivot]

Pale Being is Higher Being but Pale

[spare pendant]

not all pale beings are higher

[half cobalt]

so pale beings dont have to be strong [other void born siblings], and they can be parasitic [lace dies wo silk right?], so idk wuts so spl abt pale beings now

[zinc pivot]

Not this shid again

[lofty crane]

Which one isn't?

[spare pendant]

lace isnt quote parasitic, she's just a frail lifeform

[spare pendant]

hornet and possibly lace are both pale

[lofty crane]

Isn't Hornet also a higher being?

[torn lagoon]

i think the hierarchy of hallow world or whatevrr goes like this

Pale
Higher Being
Common Bug (which includes the shamans and everything that is sentient)
and Tik Tiks and stuff that are not sentient

[spare pendant]

hornet is "higher" than mortals but a different caste than GMS and the like

[whole holly]

since eva isn't higher being, maybe she is pale being?