sk-lore

[past cypress]

Red Memory had me screaming for 10 minutes straight

[maiden meteor]

When I saw Act 3: ABYSS my jaw literally dropped

[dapper willow]

Even ifhalf of act 3 is a reference to old stuff
I'm still glad we saw some of the old stuff again

[mystic fiber]

i somehow didnt figure out caretaker and his gang are snails until the very end

silly of me

[sleek pier]

Hornet's dialogue with the snail shamans was EXACTLY what I was thinking

[dapper willow]

We even got 2 new abyss creatures

[jovial trail]

Me neither in retrospective it seems obvious? But at the same time idk if many people figured it out

[maiden meteor]

I love how Shamans just go “You should’ve guessed lmao bozo”

[mystic fiber]

it's hinted at the very beginning

[maiden meteor]

doesn’t chapel door has snail shell above it

[jovial trail]

The snail shamans reveal was very peak for me

[dapper willow]

The shaman reveal is what tge abyss reveal should have been

[low obsidian]

it's definitely a very "why didn't i realize that sooner" kinda thing

[mystic fiber]

yeah they was like "we were snail shamans ofc we mess with void , duh"

[sleek pier]

I actually figured out they were the snail shamans when the portal opened up, felt stupid for falling for their scam

[jovial trail]

Caretaker scamming us was fucked up, I trusted the guy

[dapper willow]

The void needed more foreshadoving tbh

[sleek pier]

nah I was more hurt by chapel maid, I always knew caretaker was slimy af

[maiden meteor]

I mean Pharloom’s void is really deep

and separated by lava

[low obsidian]

i trusted all of them man i did regular checkups on everyone

[jovial trail]

I love how the diving bells has nothing to do until you use it to get to the abyss

[mystic fiber]

fair. they could hint at this when needolin at Atla nest snare scene

[dapper willow]

Yeah but it would have been better narratively

[jovial trail]

HK and SS have a lot of characters dying, but the snails are the only ones that betray our trust

[radiant smelt]

if silk didnt care so much about lace the snail shamans plan would have went off without a hitch

[jovial trail]

Well maybe nosk and millibell also

[radiant smelt]

but they didnt count on her motherly instincts

[jovial trail]

Okay maybe they didn’t mean to be mean to us

[mystic fiber]

technically they didnt, they just hide very crucial detail.

[dapper willow]

Act 3 has the best and worst of silksong in it

[sleek pier]

yeah but they were playing around with THE VOID. Hornet says as much about it. Whoever tries to make the void do their bidding is a fool.

[mystic fiber]

classic snail shaman style

[jovial trail]

Act 3 will have the most 2 hours video essays other that the difficulty

[radiant smelt]

i love act 3, it feels like a loveletter to longtime hollow knight fans

[jovial trail]

I love hornet shit talking the pale king lmao

[maiden meteor]

Act 3 has us kill gay couple 0/10

[mystic fiber]

true, but void enhanced enemy are just pain in my ass

[sleek pier]

deadbeat dad, actually alright politician. rare stuff

[quick thorn]

my problem with act 3 is that it's kinda like infected crossroads in that sure, things have changed, and you should have urgency in lore, but in reality not really
this is kind of a gameplay problem tho tbh, unfixable

[low obsidian]

sorry prince this is a women's world #WomenWin

and Sherma

[jovial trail]

He had good intention but in the end everything got screwed

[low obsidian]

Sherma gets a pass

[mystic fiber]

we sherma posting now?

[maiden meteor]

Woke feminism cannot have place for gays

[quick thorn]

me with crawfather or smth (damn there really is like 3 male leaders in this game huh)

[low obsidian]

`i cant believe i can say that so like everyone was constantly worrying about sherma getting myla'd right

[maiden meteor]

Why do you think weavers were exclusively women

[sleek pier]

Jerma is my favorite hollow knight character

[radiant smelt]

i was surprised at the seeming lack of connections to hollow knight that silksong had aside from "phasmium". groal using vengeful spirit made me raise my eyebrow though, and past that more and more connections kept showing up, which i think was a really cool way to do it

[low obsidian]

nodnodnod

[mystic fiber]

imagine trying to be good dad once and your son who was supposed to not have emotions got attached

[jovial trail]

Everything is very tame until act 3

[dapper willow]

I think in some cases they are easier

[quick thorn]

weavers exclusively refer to each other as sisters. we've also never seen a male one

[sleek pier]

is it like a gerudo thing

[maiden meteor]

Whiteward quest is an instant panic button

[low obsidian]

i'm glad that's a universal experience

[radiant smelt]

void enemies are a really cool idea, but i wish there were more void exclusive attacks. theres only like what, 4 or 5?

[quick thorn]

yeah, it's weird, despite silksong being about the weavers it doesn't really tell us much

[whole holly]

guys is Blue Child Joni higher being?

[mystic fiber]

glad he was safe after all

[jovial trail]

Maybe that’s why is so painful for weavers to reproduce, they have to find a mate from a different species and that probably could en badly

[sleek pier]

for sure, they need to expand on weaver lore in the DLCs

[dapper willow]

Ballador, Groal, Green Prince and Khan are all male leaders

[mystic fiber]

definitly nah, she's just got a drinking problem

[whole holly]

why are chapels are called chapels in Silksong when they are Repose like Joni's at most?

[jovial trail]

I was mentally preparing for that the whole game, AND THEN GARMOND WAS THE ONE WHO DIED

[maiden meteor]

and all die

coincidence?

[dapper willow]

a bunch of the female leaders die too

[whole holly]

okay i believe you

[mystic fiber]

pinstress they are basically all female

[quick thorn]

we only really know the herrah specifically had trouble having children, but we don't know if it was pain or just literally having trouble with conception
that latter part would be why she made the deal with PK, since he is uhh, virile?

[maiden meteor]

you fell for the classic blunder

[mystic fiber]

and all of them except two are ded

[jovial trail]

Eva tells us part of the reason she was created was bc weavers have trouble reproducing

[quick thorn]

the pinmaster is a guy, so it's entirely possible that it's
pinstress girl, pinmaster guy, one fights and one works the "forge" (pin creation/maintenance)
also they'd probably be seperate species?

[radiant smelt]

i think joni could be to the lifeblood higher being as grimm is to the nightmare heart, if that makes sense. that being a favoured "vessel" to the lifeblood, which is why she doesnt get as fucked up

[sleek pier]

kinda off topic but I think whiteward has one of the best atmospheres in hollow knight

[maiden meteor]

Joni was a responsible drinker actually

[jovial trail]

Hm I wonder if the pinmaster is related to the pinstress order in some way

[sleek pier]

I live for hospital horror stuff

[whole holly]

yeah, that may be case

[jovial trail]

It really was resident evil but bug

[whole holly]

responsible drinker to the point where her vitals are all lifeblood

[maiden meteor]

I love Last Surgery

Lofi beats to study to

[mystic fiber]

so, basically hornet with architect crest

[sleek pier]

Last surgery was kinda goofy because I'm just imagining some surgeon making a vlog of some horrific silk injection surgery while the conductor screams bloody murder

[whole holly]

yes

[quick thorn]

as for favoured vessels, it seems that lifeblood is ok with not mutating people if you are strong enough, worthy enough
hence why mindless worms get taken over, and the plasmium researcher gets taken over since he didn't truly express strength

[whole holly]

joni's blessing has same exact effect for knight

[maiden meteor]

“Hey guys, today we’re unboxing Conductor Mizello”

[whole holly]

as knight can't overdose otherwise

[mystic fiber]

nah it doesnt heals you overtime, that requires hiveblood

[quick thorn]

I mean, that is the unravelled fight

[eternal cove]

Maybe this is me being pedantic
But I have a slight issue with the way Hornet encounters the First Sinner
Why on earth would Hornet ever slice open ethereal chains binding an egg-like structure closed
When she is familiar with another egg like structure that has ethereal binding chains, that she knows should not be opened under any circumstances

[quick thorn]

the knight is incapable of overdosing

[mystic fiber]

No Will To Overdose

[radiant smelt]

i love all the whiteward enemies tbh theyre funny guys
shoutout to the guy cut in half held together by thread who turns into a bouncing wheel

[eternal cove]

"Yes, let me just casually open this sealed evil"

[maiden meteor]

Hornet just does a little trolling

[whole holly]

didn't i say that? he achieves similar effect by Joni's Blessing.

[quick thorn]

she read the description obviously
locked up? heretic? this person is clearly against the citadel and will help me

[eternal cove]

Okay that's fair - and they do

[quick thorn]

knight doesnt though, the only way to regen health is hiveblood. lifeblood never regenerates

[mystic fiber]

and what lifeblood has to do with void

[jovial trail]

The only time hornet prevents the player from doing something is when try to leave, so ig it’s just bc it’s a videogame

[mystic fiber]

it just puzzles me

[maiden meteor]

Lifeblood Creature just chillin there

[whole holly]

yeah, i said similar effects, maybe read what i am saying?

[sleek pier]

How come we don't see lifeblood infection in joni's repose or the lifeblood cave in the abyss? weird that joni's corpse isn't all mutated from lifeblood either

[jovial trail]

Trueeee why does the lifeblood expand so much in act 3? Also the abyss creature

[quick thorn]

but that really isn't similar effects, similar effects would be regen. there's not much simularity at all mechanically

[maiden meteor]

Alchemist experiments maybe

[jovial trail]

Joni is just built different

[terse warren]

because lifeblood worked differently in game one

[whole holly]

is abyss creature in Silksong?

[jovial trail]

No

[maiden meteor]

not yet

[terse warren]

hornet talks about similar stuff happening in Deepnest and there were no experiments in that case, it's just what lifeblood does naturally

[maiden meteor]

I mean accelerated rate of growth

[whole holly]

it is similar in effect because Lifeblood masks replaces all masks, it can't have even more similarities with Hiveblood also equipped

[sleek pier]

Or maybe she was talking about the infection, and how they both look similar. she's really vague about it

[quick thorn]

we could definitely see an abyss expansion in silksong. especially due to true ending showing us how large the area truly is

[terse warren]

joni had been dead fopr a damn while

[terse warren]

she's not vague about it at all, actually

[radiant smelt]

lifeblood reminds me of how cancer cells spread, maybe the alchemists lifeblood was malignant

[jovial trail]

Maybe Joni was smarter about consuming lifeblood, the lifeblood charms seem like a more controlled version of lifeblood

[terse warren]

"Large worm mutated heavily by Plasmium. The creature has become fused to the roof of its cave, no longer able to move freely.

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion."

[mystic fiber]

i have a theory but it's a loose one. i think lifeblood must infest the dream realm to become fully powered up. since there was radiance and PK and other stuff in the dream of hallownest, it just didnt had the chance. whereas at the pharloom , the dream realm seemed much more empty so it went on full crazy

[whole holly]

we only see Abyss Creatures Head, which makes me think Abyss Creature is butterfly, as lifeblood flowers resemble butterfly

[maiden meteor]

Or Joni was a zombie controlled by lifeblood all along

btw is Joni backer character

[terse warren]

Joni is very clearly magically connected to Lifeblood, so it's not weird that she isn't mutilated. Doesn't changed that lifeblood worked differently in the first game.

[mystic fiber]

at least we know from godseeker that abyss creature and lifeblood do be capable of entering dream realm

[whole holly]

thanks for telling us

[maiden meteor]

im asking 😭

[sleek pier]

ah yeah alright

[mystic fiber]

she is

[whole holly]

lol

[maiden meteor]

ahhh I see

[mystic fiber]

i think she's referring to radiance's infection

[maiden meteor]

it’s funny that dream npc dialogue are pure accident

because they all imply they’re alive

[terse warren]

"Where once THIS SUBSTANCE was allowed to flourish"

[mystic fiber]

oh o

[terse warren]

You literally cannot get more specific than that

[mystic fiber]

mb

[radiant smelt]

lifeblood does seem to be the antithesis of the infection
orange/blue
moths/butterflies
harming/"healing"

[maiden meteor]

Lifeblood seems a lot more physical as well

except maybe Lifeblood Core room

[radiant smelt]

the butterfly npcs we see dont seem to have any connection to lifeblood though

[whole holly]

i also though that, Infection starts with mind, while Plasmium starts with strengthening body, Infection in later stages affects body, Plasmium in later stages affects mind

[whole holly]

Abyss Creature could be Butterfly Higher Being

[mystic fiber]

we dont know if butterfly had any connection with lifeblood other than the "leaf" of lifeblood looks like one. maybe the higher being behind lifeblood is butterfly? if there is one that is.

[radiant smelt]

oh thats true yeah

[low obsidian]

is there any proper clue on what happens to Huntress in Act 3 (completed her quest)

[mystic fiber]

it is funny how they seems to be polar opposites of each other

[mystic fiber]

got eaten by her child

or idk went out for milk

[whole holly]

Radiance is at peak(kinda) of Hallownest while Abyss Creature is in Literal Abyss

[radiant smelt]

i think its possible the pale king tried experimenting with lifeblood in an early attempt to fight off the radiance, but that lead to catastrophic consequences which is why he sealed it off in the lifeblood room and proceeded to ban usage of it

[whole holly]

i wonder if they were supposed to be polar opposites of each other but TC abandoned that idea and reworked Lifeblood as additional mechanic

[whole holly]

that could be possible

[mystic fiber]

that doesnt explain why people still drink it sometime. it's just "a bit taboo"

[whole holly]

taboo refers to social or religious ban, but i assume it was strictly enforced by Pale King and his Subjects

[jovial trail]

I mean hallownest fell so now there’s no law

[whole holly]

after infection, i don't think it was as strictly enforced, due to factors

[radiant smelt]

actually are the lifeblood worms in wormways still haunted? i forgor if they give off silk particles when hit

[whole holly]

Elina Salubra and Joni consume it and be fine but Hornet is only fine and can resist harmful effects because of her "nature"/shell

[mystic fiber]

also joni is referred to as “the kindly heretic”, heretic often carry a religious meaning, maybe she actually worshipped lifeblood or Abyss Creature other than PK so she got the title

[whole holly]

being in control of two infections would be funny

[radiant smelt]

yea idk if a creature can be afflicted by the influence of two higher beings simultaneously?

[whole holly]

Heresy would be violating Pale King's teachings of Lifeblood being Taboo, and Joni embracing it would make her heretic in religious sense

[jovial trail]

Elina and Salubra don’t seem to have gone crazy on it tho

[ebon silo]

Though as much "friendly" lifeblood is it is still an infection equivalent to that of the radiance but the way it does it's job is by doing the boiling frog method in my theory

[whole holly]

but Hornet doesn't always go crazy on it, she says that about consuming it in normal amounts i believe , correct me if i am wrong

[jovial trail]

Hmm idk

[mystic fiber]

they give silk when hit ,at least Zango gives silk. but it doesnt mean they are haunted.Shadow Creeper gives silk when hit and i dont think they are any way close to be haunted by silk

[mystic fiber]

hmmm that would also make sense

[whole holly]

Radiance's Infection also does that, approaching bug's mind in dreams and promising them their wanted desires

[whole holly]

it is most likely true

[ebon silo]

Come no closer! I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.
Whether it was imbibed willingly or not, none shall be allowed into this chamber while so afflicted. Begone! - Eva

Still an infection

[whole holly]

giving silk is due to hornet hitting enemies, bugs themselves aren't source of hornet's silk, at least that is what other people told me in this channel

[waxen forum]

why does hornet have access to the terminus elevator immediately

[ebon silo]

Huh really? Could you give me the source real quick for the infection promising their wanted desires I've never heard it so I wanna know

[waxen forum]

my theory is that it's an administrative area and it recognizes her weaver blood and gives her immediate access

[mystic fiber]

i think it's more of because terminus elevator never ceased to function

[whole holly]

i don't have source but i am sure myla's dream nail dialogue , and elder bug suggests it

[mystic fiber]

like how you get bonebottom bellway immediately

[waxen forum]

but then why would terminus be publicly available when the cradle isn't

[whole holly]

closest thing i have "However, the Radiance was not entirely forgotten, as memories of her still lingered.[5] Eventually, bugs started to have dreams about the Radiance.[5] This caused the Infection to appear for the first time.[6] It started to manifest itself as bugs struggled against the Radiance's influence and tried to suppress it."

[ebon silo]

This does not prove anything about desire

[whole holly]

when nail sage sly says esmy how much longer do we have to go, while infected, it suggests that their dreams are personalized by radiance

[ebon silo]

There is no concrete evidence for that either

...

[whole holly]

lot of things suggest it is my point

[ebon silo]

assumptions?

Could you please showcase the things that suggest that path

[whole holly]

myla's dream nail dialogue "I'm so close... Keep singing, crystals! Keep singing so I can find you!

Keep whispering, crystals! I can almost hear what you're saying! " radiance seems to be using bugs personal desire of finding crystals, her desires and dreams manifest as infection in later stages

[mystic fiber]

i do support radiance infection lures people with their desire. it's hinted by many infected NPC dialogs

[whole holly]

myla's dream nail dialogue after being infected "... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... DANGEROUS... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... KILL THE EMPTY ONE...

...how much longer... must I dig...? "

[gentle aspen]

For what

[ebon silo]

This is way before her infection??

[gentle aspen]

as usual I am ignored and loathed by the masses

[ebon silo]

For this one the radiance is infiltrating by making Myla kill the empty one aka the knight while mylas mind is also occupied in another it's like 2 voices in 1 brain

[whole holly]

infection is later physical manifestation of disease, it suggest that dreams are how it spreads and dream process confirms it

[ebon silo]

Wait 😭 I don't loath you Mr jojoker

[gentle aspen]

why are you guys discussing hk stuff here anyways

[quick thorn]

it definitely corrupts the desires of the infected against others
The first dream warrior u usually fight for example
"In my dreams I cut the infection down, and then I'll cut the king down" (or smth paraphrasing)

[ebon silo]

I have no idea I was going to ask a question if flea caravan might be the next troupe dlc but for fleas

[gentle aspen]

if this is about rad twisting or taking the wants of the infected that’s clearly shown ingame

traitors wanted power soul master wanted a cure to the infection as did elder hu etc etc

[ebon silo]

But this should not show the desires? Like the infection promising the bugs desires of what nika said

[whole holly]

we were discussing all types of Plights presented thought both games and comparing them to each other

[ebon silo]

Holy lag

[quick thorn]

was elder hu infected? to me it just seemed he was just unlucky to go to the one place uninfected (mantis) and obviously hostile to him regardless

[gentle aspen]

yes

[whole holly]

wants and desires are synonyms

[gentle aspen]

He immediately went and tried to murder non infected people for the sake of purging the infectoon

[ebon silo]

Dream nailing someone is just looking into their thoughts they do have minds afterall your thoughts on this? @gentle aspen

[gentle aspen]

And he says “he brought the madness into that area”

[quick thorn]

that makes sense

[whole holly]

dreams is how infection spreads also

[ebon silo]

Yes because it states the radiance infects the minds which y'know where dreams are

[bitter coral]

Can anyone explain the true ending to me I don't quite understand it

[ebon silo]

But that doenst mean the presence of dreams mean infection

[whole holly]

"I'm so close... Keep singing, crystals! Keep singing so I can find you!

Keep whispering, crystals! I can almost hear what you're saying! " Crystals Singing isn't natural , this is clearly beginning of infection

[ebon silo]

I'm pretty sure she is just obsessed with the crystals she is a miner afterall

[quick thorn]

well, there's the physical infection and the dream infection
the dream infection that takes over the mind happens first, then the physical infection takes over the body

This is actually in the inverse of lifeblood. The physical infection happens first (the "good" bodily affects of lifeblood), then the dream/mental infection "must spread lifeblood"

Except with lifeblood, there is a final phase of complete physical infection and mutation

[whole holly]

exactly

[zinc pivot]

Hornet saves Lace, GMS finally accepted death, Ghost saved them both from the void and commanded void to retreat to where it cameth

[whole holly]

and Infection/Radiance uses that as advantage

[quick thorn]

and we get a wide shot of the absolutely MASSIVE abyss (like wow it's a huge place)

[bitter coral]

Isn't the ghost the knight?

Cuz what happened that the knight became a ghost

[mystic fiber]

lifeblood can enter dream realm itself, seeing how essence particels floats in the lifeblood room in abyss and how godseeker had a lifeblood dream cocoon

[ebon silo]

No?? What the radiance takes advantage is the minds because that's how her power works she is a being that live outside of the physical world she literally lives in the "dream" world

the desire thing from Myla is just from her being a miner

[quick thorn]

we don't see lifeblood's interaction with the dream realm, we just know it has a connection there. It probably infects dreams just like the radiance. it isn't confirmed confirmed, but likely

[whole holly]

myla's desires are her dreams and radiance twists that, crystals whispering to her literally suggests that

[zinc pivot]

Ghost is a name hornet gave them, because they are quite the ghost of hallownest (an existence nobody even knows that exists)

[mystic fiber]

again

[ebon silo]

The presence of dreams should not equal the presence of infection already if this is not true how come I can dream nail elder bug and he has not been infected for like the duration of the entire game

[bitter coral]

So the knight is also "the ghost of hallownest"?

[whole holly]

i did not equate that?

[ebon silo]

.

This is the radiance infiltrating her mind but look she does not take advantage of her desires rather she is forcing her mind to kill the knight

[whole holly]

that is still not equating that, i never equated ability to dream and infection

[zinc pivot]

Yes
(Not that there exists a being literally called ghost of hallownest, i mean it as the knight is like a ghost, and they come from hallownest, it’s just how hornet calls the knight)

The knight pronouns are they/them btw

[ebon silo]

You still said "her desires and dreams manifest as infection" which doenst even make any sense

There were no desire shown for Myla or elder bug and dreams manifesting that into the infection

[mystic fiber]

i remember some dialog in HK that calls the knight "little ghost" or somthing

[ebon silo]

How the infection works is literally the radiance jumping inside the mind and then controlling jt

[mystic fiber]

or maybe i just didnt remember correctly

[ebon silo]

Like fking ratatouille

[bitter coral]

So does the knight have the ability to transform into a ghost or is that js how he is being shown in silksong

[zinc pivot]

Yeah hornet did call the knight little ghost
And ghost of hallownest before black egg

[whole holly]

but Dreams i meant her actual dreams and desires, not ability to dream, it was obvious

[spare pendant]

Radiance doesn't just control your mind, she breaks your will first

[zinc pivot]

*they not he you bigot /j
and no they are not a literal ghost lol

[spare pendant]

That's why you can resist her with strong will

[ebon silo]

Which is shown in Myla yes?

[zinc pivot]

The form they take is called Void Given Form

[spare pendant]

what exactly is the joke here

[bitter coral]

Theres only he and her btw

[ebon silo]

Yet there is still no desires being taken advantage from the radiance and her actual dreams wdym? Her actual dream is getting crystals and etc because she's a miner

[spare pendant]

Objectively incorrect lol

[zinc pivot]

The knight is nongendered

Istg the bigot joke wrote itself

[quick thorn]

the fact that everyone calls THK and Knight a he at some point despite explicitly being agender

[spare pendant]

The vessels are all non-gendered because they were created to be hollow

Hornet is described as the gendered child

[whole holly]

desires manifest as attack surfaces, which is why you can resist her with strong will, will weakened by desires makes you more prone to infection

[quick thorn]

well, not "created to be", the process of becoming a vessel strips all gender. The shell is hollow, and filled with a shade made of void

[ebon silo]

What? "Desires manifest as attack surfaces" what do you mean by that? Mylas will broke as shown here not the red circles that's the radiance forcing her mind to attack while also breaking her will (the rest of the dialogue) the knight but that didn't show anything from her desires being the one manifesting any attack surfaces or whatever that is

[whole holly]

desires weaken will, radiance infects weak willed bugs

[whole holly]

this is literal proof

[quick thorn]

i think they are trying to refer to how the radiance can get into bug's minds through a desire, THEN start to force the bug to do the radiance's will

[spare pendant]

Not supported in-game.

[stray fog]

I have a theory about the abyss creature being a higher being

There were 2 very similar enemies in hk, one related to the infection and one to lifeblood. (I'm talking about the tiny lifeblood creatures that run away from you when you break a lifeblood cocoon)

Also, hornet mentions that she feels like lifeblood is taking over her mind while talking to yarnaby. This sounds like the infection

These similarities make me think that the abyss creature is also a higher being connected to the dream realm.

There are also blue dream particles near lifeblood in hk

[quick thorn]

not really, plenty of characters have desire and don't succumb to infection
weak will means you are more likely to succumb to desire, not that desire weakens wills

[whole holly]

i am basing it on her statement of will needing to be strong enough to resist the infection

[spare pendant]

Desires are dreams, Radiance infects through dreams; you could make an argument that Radiance begins the infection through desire. But this would be a different claim, and would also be contradicted by the fact most bugs get infected due to the contaminated air.

[gentle aspen]

this is wrong what

[whole holly]

"weak will means you are more likely to succumb to desire" this is what i meant

[gentle aspen]

they don’t get infected due to contaminated air that’s not a thing

[spare pendant]

It explicitly is

[gentle aspen]

it’s a dreamborn illness

[gentle aspen]

It isn’t

[spare pendant]

Sly says it, the hunter says it

[quick thorn]

uhh, you dream about desires

[gentle aspen]

yeah because they don’t have proper info

and hunter doesn’t say that

[quick thorn]

desires are things contained within dreams

[gentle aspen]

He says infected air’s been seeping down for yeaes

[quick thorn]

it's still a dream born illness

[ebon silo]

Desire doenst weaken will it's an attachment to will having no will at all gives no entrance for the radiance to go inside

[spare pendant]

What's your reason for saying sly is wrong?

[gentle aspen]

he doesn’t know about the radiance of course he’d assume it’s because of physical reasons

[quick thorn]

well, either you are strong of will (like Zote, who literally refuses to dream) or you have no will, like the vessels are *meant to be, in order to avoid the dream infection

[whole holly]

will is needed to control desires, if bug has weak or no will, radiance can intrude minds of bugs

[spare pendant]

What dreams does a cell have?

[gentle aspen]

dreams can be tied to inanimate objects ingame this is not a point

[ebon silo]

if bugs has weak or "no will", radiance can intrude the minds of bugs then why did the pale make vessels have no will and no mind?

No will makes no entrance for the radiance right???

[whole holly]

they do have will though, Knight unites Void under his will

[quick thorn]

physical infection is an entirely different can of worms
Most likely physical infection just doesn't care

[spare pendant]

There's no mechanism a cell can be infected through a solely dreamborne illness (which we see manifest physically)

[gentle aspen]

inanimate objects have ties to dreams I dunno why you assume cells can’t have those as well

If you could be infected through physical contact with the stuff hunter would be infected

He literally imbibes infected creatures

[fallow spindle]

does hornet need to eat or not

[whole holly]

what cell are you referring to in hallownest?

[quick thorn]

lightseed

[gentle aspen]

She says she doesn’t

[fallow spindle]

probably eats silk

[gentle aspen]

lightseeds

[fallow spindle]

thats technically just how she survives

[whole holly]

Lifeseed is Lifeblood's Cells i guess, they aren't infected

[quick thorn]

isn't it that she doesn't need much sustainance at all, rather than none at all?

[quick thorn]

i got the wrong name and editted lol

[spare pendant]

There's a big difference between "inanimate objects can have lingering essence" and "inanimate objects can dream". We don't see any infected wanderer's journals.

[fallow spindle]

maybe since she grows way slower as the other bugs she does not need to eat per day

[spare pendant]

He has a strong will, most likely

[quick thorn]

i mean, lingering essence is a "tie to dreams"

[whole holly]

Strange air (Infection) has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life.(Lightseed) I don't know what to make of it. - Hunter's Journal

[gentle aspen]

so then why is will relevant if it’s a physical infection

[spare pendant]

But it doesn't get you infected

[gentle aspen]

Having the capacity to dream means you can get infected, not that you will get infected

[ebon silo]

The Knight has will (they act), but not attachments or desires in the way normal bugs do They don’t speak, don’t long for power don’t seek comfort Their will is very “pure.”

Having no will at all means the radiance cannot infect you but having a weak one does

[quick thorn]

you don't interact with lingering memories within the dream worlds. Like ever, lingering memory interactions are purely in the physical world

[spare pendant]

You're claiming cells have the capacity to dream, which isn't supported at all

[quick thorn]

except in silksong but that's an entirely different dream system

[gentle aspen]

they’re infected
they have the capacity to dream

[spare pendant]

What does this have to do with what I said?

[spare pendant]

You can't prove a point by restating the conclusion lol

[gentle aspen]

that’s literally just how the infection is stated to work by people who are aware of the radiance idk what to tell you

[spare pendant]

Where?

[quick thorn]

lingering essence is tied to dreams, you said "then why can't you get infected by it" and I say because you literally can only interact with these lingering essences in the physical world

[gentle aspen]

your reasoning for them not being able to is just “they can’t”

[spare pendant]

I wasn't asking why, I was just stating you can't

[whole holly]

"Desire doenst weaken will it's an attachment to will having no will at all gives no entrance for the radiance to go inside" you bought no will into discussion , if knight has no will to break and he unifies void under his will, that's your job to explain it, i originally said having weak will makes easier to infect mind of bug, so that's for agreeing with my argument

[spare pendant]

There's nothing pointing to them being able to dream, except that it would benefit your argument if they could.

[quick thorn]

the knight is explicitly no longer hollow by the point they have the void soul anyway.

[gentle aspen]

they literally are infected creatures and the method for infection is through dreams

“Nothing pointing to them being able to dream” except the literal game making them infected?

[spare pendant]

That's the claim you're trying to prove

[whole holly]

are they hollow? explain when they become no longer hollow?

[gentle aspen]

That’s not a claim that’s just how it works

[spare pendant]

It is a claim, either prove it or don't

[quick thorn]

or, it could be what I think is the case
dream infection is one route
Physical infection is another route
as the THK weakens, it leaks physical infection. This physical infection doesn't need dreams at all to infect things

[gentle aspen]

play the game
rad is a dream entity
she appears in people’s minds and causes the infection in them

[edgy barn]

That last claim is wrong as otherwise the haunter would be infected

[spare pendant]

I know who radiance is. Her being a dream entity does not inherently mean the infection is dreamborne.

[whole holly]

Eventually, bugs started to have dreams about the Radiance.[5] This caused the Infection to appear for the first time.[6] It started to manifest itself as bugs struggled against the Radiance's influence and tried to suppress it. - Hollow Knight wiki states that

[gentle aspen]

the wiki isn’g a source

[random harbor]

Seer - Bringing Essence - Returning with 2400 Essence

So much Essence... So bright.... You truly are the Wielder my tribe so long has dreamed of.
The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still.
They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time.
But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.
How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even.
And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal. But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.
Ah, but what's done is done. And so am I. The Wielder has at last appeared and I've held the memories of my tribe for long enough. It is time for us to be forgotten too.
Don't remember us, Wielder. Don't honour us. We do not deserve it...
Aahh... I'm sorry...
Light... Radiance...
I... remember you.

@kingoclowns used /npcs quest name: Seer category: Bringing Essence dialogue: Returning with 2400 Essence

[gentle aspen]

read dialogue

[whole holly]

wiki itself has sources

[gentle aspen]

Yes but you linked none of them

[quick thorn]

not necessarily, the hunter states the liquid tastes sickly sweet and to not consume infected bugs.
also the hunter is just, not an ordinary bug at all. No higher being, but strong enough to avoid infection

[whole holly]

i know, i will put link here, so people can double check or verify it,https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Infection

[whole holly]

you would have to prove that though, that hunter can avoid Infection (while infection is physical)

[ebon silo]

You also said has weak will or no will atleast word it correctly ffs

[spare pendant]

The infection started from a dream, yes, but that's not what I'm contesting. The Radiance was sealed in THK's dream and thus couldn't appear in anybody's dream like you're claiming. Infection seeped out as infected air (the orange mist coming out of the black egg) because it couldn't fully seal the infection. We know the radiance isn't in any other dream because the dream nail doesn't spawn the final boss whenever we use it.

[gentle aspen]

the radiance was sealed in thk’s dream and thus couldn’t appear in anybody’s dream like you’re claiming
Did you actually play the game

like genuinely

[quick thorn]

well, how about this, the physical infection can infect things that don't have dreams, but still needs to infect the dreams of living things to actually infect them?
Also, for whatever reason, tiktiks and other lower thought beings do not present physical infection, despite being in an area with a lot of creatures presenting physical infection. So probable the physical infection requires the dreams

[gentle aspen]

thk failed

That is like

The entire point

[spare pendant]

I don't remember entering the radiance fight whenever I dreamnailed a tiktik

[whole holly]

"Desire doenst weaken will it's an attachment to will having no will at all gives no entrance for the radiance to go inside" i only made that mistake because i supported your conclusion, so

[spare pendant]

Irrelevant

[gentle aspen]

okay you’re just ragebaiting atp I’m not engaging anymore

[spare pendant]

It failed at containing the infection, but we see the radiance sealed

[gentle aspen]

It literally isn’t

It’s the core conceit of the fucking game

[whole holly]

read wiki it has sources and disproves you, https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Infection, verify or provide counterargument based on them

[quick thorn]

lol what no, the radiance can still appear in other people's dreams, just extremely weakly
there's a reason the godseekers attunement required so much combat to retrieve and summon the ACTUAL radiance.

[gentle aspen]

You can DREAM NAIL MYLA AND SEE THE RADIANCE LITERALLY SPEAKING IN HER HEAD

[spare pendant]

THK failing to seal the infection does not mean it failed to contain the radiance. All we see of her anywhere else is just vague mentions of "light" and, of course, her direct speech.

[mortal birch]

lmaoooooooo i love the radience so much

[gentle aspen]

Thk is still containing the heart of the infection we’re told this we see this that’s why you can’t dream nail a random tiktik

I’m so done with you oh my god

[mortal birch]

KILL IT KILL IT!!!!!

[spare pendant]

I'm not claiming cells can dream.

[mortal birch]

ITS GONNA GET ME!!!

[quick thorn]

no?

[whole holly]

how so?

[whole holly]

Lightseeds, if that's what you are reffering to are made from Infection itself "Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it. " hunter's journal

[spare pendant]

Lightseeds are explicitly microscopic organisms blown up by infection

The infected balloons are the ones made of infection

[quick thorn]

which would be physical infection, as the gas is seeping out of the black egg and infected creatures in the late stage of infection

[spare pendant]

It's stated twice; once in hunter's journal and once in the EU wanderer's journal

[whole holly]

hunter's journal state's otherwise "A single-celled organism, completely infected. Scurries about simple-mindedly.

Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it. " Infection became life itself, that is Lifeseed

[spare pendant]

Literally the first sentence

The hunter's note is not strictly relevant here

[whole holly]

they are infected because they are made from infection

[spare pendant]

It's also affirmed again in the wanderer's journal p.127

[whole holly]

it is relevant to your point

[quick thorn]

this implies that the hunter studied the infection of the microscopic level... like no, he doesn't have that capability. He makes the connection between the gas, liquid and fleshy infection, but he isn't a scientist

[zinc pivot]

Mind you again how hk lore infected the chat?

[quick thorn]

lifeblood

or plasmium eh

[zinc pivot]

Ofc its lifeblood

[spare pendant]

lifeblood lore my beloved

[fallow spindle]

wtf even is a silk cocoon

[spare pendant]

i wonder if the page got migrated to main yet

[whole holly]

how information is in Hunter's Journal is irrelevant, it is there, it is canon

[spare pendant]

The Hunter is not omniscient, as was previously mentioned. Only the first block is stated by the omniscient narrator.

[zinc pivot]

Your hornet looks overcooked. Did you fail abyss climb?

[quick thorn]

because he's an unreliable narrator. he literally cannot know everything

[ebon silo]

@whole holly let me correct myself I was confused by your wording so I made alot of mistakes Yes desires weaken will obviously because it's an attachment I forgot what we were arguing because I was eating at the same time so maybe next time atleast correct your grammar and wording

[fallow spindle]

i did it first try actually XD probably benched near lava

[spare pendant]

It's her molted shell, wrapped in silk for safety

And is likely non-canon

[ebon silo]

Literally because she doenst die

[quick thorn]

like if the hunter was as knowledgeable as you think, his text on Hornet being a hunter (ie: Hunter's Crest) would be way, WAY more explicit on being "kindren spirits"

[ebon silo]

Gameplay reasons

[zinc pivot]

Respawn is noncanon even when styx is alive and have a delivery

[quick thorn]

just like the original HK

[fallow spindle]

if benching allows hornet to have foresight whta would a cocoon be

[zinc pivot]

Does queens egg get removed from delivery?

[spare pendant]

Foresight is just a theory

[whole holly]

i was confused by your wording, i made that mistake because i agreed to your conclusion, but maybe point out other thing's that confused you so we can clarify them?

[ebon silo]

My wording got fucked up because yours too XD so yes you have a point

[ebon silo]

Wait really?

[spare pendant]

Pale King definitely has it, Hornet may not

[quick thorn]

hmm, desires weakening wills does make sense for Traitor Lord.
As you would expect them to be strong willed, but have a desire for more power
Again though, a weak will can fall into desire in the first place. So it's a bit chicken and eggy here

[whole holly]

well, we can always clarify our points, making mistakes is normal and natural

[spare pendant]

Traitor Lord willingly invited the infection, he wasn't weakened

That's what makes them traitors

[steep talon]

Performance drugs

[quick thorn]

yeah... strong willed, yet desired power, and willingly let the infection in

[steep talon]

Are we arguing about hollow knight lore in silksong lore chanel?

[zinc pivot]

Banes Venom ahh shit

[whole holly]

strong will of mantis tribe is because they don't desire power, all of other infected ones desired to be powerful, and willingly became infected so will has little to no relation to this specific case

[ebon silo]

The only headcanon I can think of is like everytime hornet sits in a bench she foresights everything on what happens every possibility in the region like fking doctor strange and then finds the suitable method to live or maybe shows how she dies so she can avoid it

[steep talon]

At least Bane wasn't a bitch before using venom. Bro trained his while life in prison, real fucked up btw

[spare pendant]

That's what we're talking about yeah

Somebody was asking how cocoons work if hornet has foresight

[quick thorn]

well, silksong lore is hollow knight lore
and the infection is just more interesting than The Haunting
and despite getting more lifeblood content it's more just "wow this is kinda inversey infection"

[ebon silo]

I guess she foresights how she dies and that's just how she sees when she dies like instantly imagine it or something

[steep talon]

What?

[spare pendant]

That's how I described it on the wiki lol

[zinc pivot]

I suppose its like they got fatal damage, and their body makes an emergency exit

[mystic fiber]

lace's void goo can bounce off of hornet's cocoon, so i think cocoon existence is canon. or just a gameplay bug. idk

[spare pendant]

That's just gameplay :p

[whole holly]

isn't Steelsoul run canon one? or does that only apply to Hollow Knight game and not Silksong?

[ebon silo]

Gameplay

[ebon silo]

Yeah should be steel soul because dying isn't canon

[spare pendant]

Steel soul isn't canon, I think the wanderer's journal mentions jiji?

[ebon silo]

Hmmm

[steep talon]

Doesn't it mention both?

[quick thorn]

lets just say we already know what The Haunting is and does, and why it came about
We know how and why it happened. We even know exactly the method of control (wrapping around all the bug's internal organs)

[spare pendant]

I'm not sure

[ebon silo]

Let's go 112% steel soul real quick to be sure

[steep talon]

Uhhh yeah true true

[spare pendant]

Wanderer's journal isn't in-game so that doesn't help

[mystic fiber]

or maybe hornet just sitting on a chair hallucinating about getting herself killed

idk

[zinc pivot]

She hallucinated so hard her entire spool extension and her wallet flew with it

[spare pendant]

I'm partial to the idea Hornet has foresight but cocoons are definitively not canon either way

[ebon silo]

The biggest question is why did the roaring knight made GMS do the haunting in the first place

[ebon silo]

For sure

[zinc pivot]

Because she cant kill her fountain making ass

[quick thorn]

there's some stuff that's also impossible to get in the same save file, like the Grimm charms
which in any sort of external media, like a theoretical charm encyclopedia, both would have to be included. Despite both charms not being canon together

[spare pendant]

Lifeseeds and lightseeds are unrelated

Lifeseeds are seedlings with a base, lightseeds are cells blown up by infection

[whole holly]

i thought it was in game items, ones we give to lemm but they don't give info way silksong npc does

[steep talon]

Ok, quick search for the rescue

[mystic fiber]

are we talking about HK steelsoul lore in SS channel?

[quick thorn]

well, they are opposites, that is the relation
lifeseeds are created by cocoons and come out of them
lightseeds come together to CREATE cocoons, like with broken vessel

[spare pendant]

Wanderer's journal is diegetic though, I don't think it talks about items? Maybe I'm wrong

[dire lynx]

jiji is in steel soul as well, thats who jinn buys the eggs for

[ebon silo]

I like to imagine the steel soul people are just the descendants of the long forgotton void civilization

[spare pendant]

It is, but I'm talking about the actual physical book

[steep talon]

That's what I'm asking!!!!

[quick thorn]

im just saying theoretically if a official charm encyclopedia existed

[dire lynx]

we just dont see them

[spare pendant]

Nevermind then

[steep talon]

Wait JIji is a gril!?!? I didn't know that

[quick thorn]

like if a character being ingame removes another character, official encyclopedias on game characters would feature both, even if it is diagetic and the presence of one removes the other

its just a thing

[mystic fiber]

also steel creatures are so weird. i think they are the only reoccuring stuff between SS and HK other than void,lifeblood,snail and hornet herself.

[bronze turret]

Yeh, Jinn also calls Jiji a her in-game

[mystic fiber]

what the hell is steel creatures' purpose and who is ther master

[steep talon]

Damn, should have spent more time in steel soul ig

[scenic stirrup]

Found something chat. If you ask garmonds help during the high halls gauntlet then finish trails end. Shakra will overwrite garmonds help. I think thats really lame imo

[bronze turret]

We don't know yet, but we're speculating it might be the theme of one of the DLCs

[scenic stirrup]

Couldve been a neat little interaction

[mystic fiber]

he's just busy saving other bugs. dont worry

[scenic stirrup]

By having both of them help u out

[ebon silo]

My headcanon is that they're the descendants of the void civilization

[steep talon]

My headcanon is that they are freaks

[steep talon]

Ew

[quick thorn]

i could definitely see an act 4 surrounding the Steel Assassins, considering the whole void mess of act 3, and the ending of act 4 leaving us in a massive abyss cave - the steel soul people are void related, and maybe they arrive to pharloom and capture hornet and lace for messing with the void?

[steep talon]

Why must this gif haunt me

[ebon silo]

I wonder what kind of stuff Sharpes tendril can do other than hit stuff

[stray fog]

[steep talon]

Dude(gender neutral)

[bronze turret]

It's more likely that the Snails are one such descendants. There's a questline in SS's Steel Soul mode that also debunks the idea that Steel people are involved with the Void, but I'm not giving spoilers until you check it on Youtube

[quick thorn]

TC are going to have problems if the steel assassins can show up in any act, and it'd be weird to do an interlude while pharloom is falling in act 3

[ebon silo]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-the-hedgehog-rolling-abs-weird-sonic-raising-eyebrows-winking-gif-16092065308808231012

[spare pendant]

Steelhearts, snails, lifeblood, weavers, the abyss, garpedes, imobas, everbloom, shellwood

[mystic fiber]

also steel creatures never appear outside of steelsoul mode. if TC really make a steel creature DLC would it be steelsoul only? frightens me even just thinking about it

[stray fog]

Shellwood?

[quick thorn]

i thought it proved that they are more involved? like, the SS vassals do stuff void related both times we see them

[spare pendant]

zote wields Shellwood

[bronze turret]

Please, this is the #sk-lore channel, memes should go in #hk-meme

[waxen forum]

so what the hell is a sylphean slug

[mystic fiber]

zote's sword is shellwood

[ebon silo]

What

[waxen forum]

the only other sylph mention is Eva's sylphsong

[stray fog]

😭

[scenic stirrup]

Whats a sylph chat arent those elves

[ebon silo]

...could it be

[mystic fiber]

zote is WEAVER???!!

[ebon silo]

No

[scenic stirrup]

Zote is void!?

[steep talon]

Dun dun dun

[mystic fiber]

[waxen forum]

Eva is an attempt to mimic divinity
Pale is usually divinity related
Is a sylphean slug some kind of divine slug?

[quick thorn]

it's probably a higher being
eva is explicitly meant to be a "higher being" as a replacement for GMS, but was too weak to do so and was locked away in shame

[bronze turret]

It's the contrary if you pay attention to what Hornet says to them. The vassal was trying to set themself free from their master by resorting to something too risky and dangerous. If Void was their specialty, the vassal wouldn't have commited this blunder.

[ebon silo]

I feel like zote would've been the perfect vessel if he wasn't so weak but then again he's just a bug

[waxen forum]

Except the pale oil isnt just a liquid that the sylphean slugs produce

[mystic fiber]

yes it's why i dont think they are void

[waxen forum]

it's an entire organ

[quick thorn]

yet the vassal in HK1 can summon your shade for you. Which is void related

[ebon silo]

So I can reuse the pale oil?

[waxen forum]

are they farmed? divine farm animals?

[bronze turret]

What implies Jiji is Jinn's vassal?

[steep talon]

No? I think we would have heard more or it would have left a bigger impact if it was divine in some way. Probably just an extinct bug, or imported material from somewhere else. Fleas also have it right?

[ebon silo]

It could just be the pale oils are just oil

Like cooking oil and like shining oil

[waxen forum]

but they arent

[spare pendant]

Paleness is a kind of divinity

[waxen forum]

they're an organ

[mystic fiber]

void is zote's regret he left behind

because zote never regret

[spare pendant]

Sylphean slugs are probably similar to Wyrms in the sense of being a higher species

[mystic fiber]

[quick thorn]

bile gland... like the bile glands of bilewater creatures?

[waxen forum]

the only other use of sylph in the game is eva, a semi-divine being

but this still implies that someone somewhere is farming divine animals

since pale oils were apparently more common in the past

[mystic fiber]

https://discord.com/channels/283467363729408000/736153071218065508

[quick thorn]

maybe we'll meet a sylph deity at some point?

[ebon silo]

Silkpost in SS lore is crazy

[mystic fiber]

what is "sylph" anyway? i think it refers to air or wind or somthing (the element not the real life air)

[waxen forum]

this implies they once had a pretty good store of pale oil

[ebon silo]

Overthinking 😭

[spare pendant]

not a silkpost

silkposts are misinformation

[waxen forum]

a fantasy term for some kind of spirit, usually related to air

[spare pendant]

it's not actually a fantasy term

[quick thorn]

hey, we got to meet more pale beings in silksong, with GMS and Pale stag

[waxen forum]

it's technically not but it's primarily used in fantasy

[ebon silo]

I don't think the pale stat is a pale being unless I'm just wrong I thought it was just her name

[spare pendant]

and we have confirmation of hornet being one

lace is likely pale as well

[spare pendant]

palestag is "paletouched"

[past cypress]

I don't think all pale things are fully higher beings but they definitely are higher than normal

[mystic fiber]

she's often referred to as pale

but not directly i dont think

or i just missed something

[ebon silo]

Soooo I'm guessing a pale being touched the stag and it got traumatized or something

[quick thorn]

pale stag kinda has to be a pale being. It has the visual presentation, being glowing and white like white lady, while also having a subspecies made in it's image, being hte other stags in verdania

[ebon silo]

Too small too weak for a pale being

[waxen forum]

for reference

[wintry flame]

kind of the weakest pale being of all time damn

[dire lynx]

or its a "raised" version of the regular stags

[waxen forum]

'fabled' and 'myth made real' imply it may not have even existed

[bronze turret]

Pale also doubles as a simple word for 'white' in their world, as in pale beings are called pale because they're white, the texts related to the lacquer in ss are the best example of it iirc

[quick thorn]

yes, practically

[spare pendant]

yeah palestag is probably enlightened

[wintry flame]

tbh palestag is probably at the same power level as the white lady

[spare pendant]

palestag is definitely not just white though, green prince says it was touched pale

[quick thorn]

you don't just call something pale that isn't divine. It would be MORE weird if pale stag wasn't a higher being, given that EVERYTHING described as pale has been so far

[mystic fiber]

maybe the green prince just hunted down a regular stag but he was very drunk with his homie that night

idk

[spare pendant]

hornet isn't

[bronze turret]

Ah... We have some examples of the word 'pale' used as a simple alternative to 'white' in ss, especially the lacquer courier quest

[waxen forum]

also, minor note, the palestag isnt the same kind of pure white associated with pale beings

[steep talon]

True true

[waxen forum]

and again, as hornet says, it might not have even existed

[mystic fiber]

white lady is definitly far more powerful

[dire lynx]

no, white lady is expressly a powerful being supressing her potential

[quick thorn]

hornet is practically a demigod, being half pale. Her ability to control crests is part of that

[mystic fiber]

she can conjure the everbloom out of thin air and just gift it to hornet

[wintry flame]

crazy ass theory: greyroot is to pale beings what steel is to void

[mystic fiber]

dont think palestag is that strong

[spare pendant]

The palestag would also be a demigod, being given pale blessings

[quick thorn]

white lady is probably the most powerful pale being... maybe 2nd to radiance, though people debate if that's the case

[edgy barn]

The humble Pale Lurker:

[spare pendant]

why would she be the most powerful

[waxen forum]

radiance isnt a pale being

[quick thorn]

who got freaky with a stag then

[waxen forum]

radiance is a different kind of god

[bronze turret]

There might be a possibility that, being of Root, White Lady can produce them

[quick thorn]

godhome

[waxen forum]

explicitly no, according to WL herself in HK

[spare pendant]

?

[mystic fiber]

still, she did manage to magically project herself in hornet's red memory

[bronze turret]

What in this specific scene gives the impression that this was a projection?

[quick thorn]

during p5 you get to see the peak white lady in the distance. She is massive, and very, VERY bright, and intentionally out of reach of the godseeker

[mystic fiber]

i've already forgor like 80% of niche hollowknight lore dialogs

[quick thorn]

awareness that she is within the dream realm

[waxen forum]

yeah i already had this debate a while ago so i had it ready

[wintry flame]

hollow knight really looks weird after playing SS

[mortal birch]

In my opinon Pale stag is a higher being but he's not a god. he's on the same par with mythical legendary beasts like the yeti or unicorn

[silver spire]

yea it looks washed out

[steep talon]

That's how you do it, hell yeah

[bronze turret]

Huh, I hadn't parsed that from any dialogue that she has said. Which one is it? Would you be willing to look for it for me, so I can take a look?

[mystic fiber]

this makes more sense

[waxen forum]

or it's a creation of another pale being and is weaker. note how it's not the same pure white as every other known pale being

or it just didnt exist

[silver spire]

"so it can penetrate minds? the nthe seals shall fall by its blade" or smth like that

[spare pendant]

Wouldn't be a higher being then, just like hornet

[waxen forum]

WL Red Memory dialogue since it was asked for

[waxen forum]

note how they're having a conversation that includes hornet's adventures in Pharloom and acknowledges that this is a dream

[bronze turret]

Wait. The Knight being able to penetrate minds doesn't mean the White Lady can do the same. And the Knight can only do it because they have the Dreamnail.

[quick thorn]

for her you become is definitely in relation to Lace, right?

[bronze turret]

Thank you very much Dark, give me a second to read!

[spare pendant]

No?

Hornet doesn't become lace

[waxen forum]

'for her you become... who knows clear our desire'
you are becoming someone who knows clear our desire

[mortal birch]

it's for herrah

[steep talon]

I dont see mention of pharloom, but yeah remembrance line is pretty interesting

[spare pendant]

It's for neither

[mortal birch]

she's becoming alive for herrah

[spare pendant]

She actually says explicitly who "her" is

[silver spire]

shes aware that the knight has dream nailed her, which means she's aware that she's been pulled into the dream realm

[quick thorn]

that makes more sense. Average trying to understand white lady dialogue moment

[silver spire]

you're asking for completely different things lmfao

[mystic fiber]

after the "indeed spider", hornet was back with her regular look and white lady dialog became a box with black background like when we talk to other NPCs

[spare pendant]

"Her" is one "who knows clear our desire, and has seen full the darkness beneath our house"

[silver spire]

you asked for dialogue that the white lady is aware that she's in the dream realm

[flint wadi]

isnt the point of red memory hornet going down her own subconscious and well, memories?

wdym white lady penetrates her MEMORY, is it harder to assume its just the version of white lady that was in her mind?

[mystic fiber]

before then, she was talking like how dream dialogs were presented

[bronze turret]

Oooooooooooh "wrest it from this remembrance" , ok I get it now! It slipped through the cracks for me

[quick thorn]

oh yeah, Hornet probably hasn't seen the abyss before. Silksong is her first proper contact. she never entered the abyss in hollow knight

[spare pendant]

The others don't talk

[spare pendant]

She sees it in hk1 if you open the door :p

[waxen forum]

entirely possible, but there's like 4 different layers of metaphysics fuckery going on, so any interpretation has some validation

[flint wadi]

vespa and herrah do, theyre just in isolated episodes

[quick thorn]

i meant like, she doesn't enter

[spare pendant]

She peers over it

[flint wadi]

yeah, becaue hornet directly interracts with her, its still a version of white lady in her mind

[quick thorn]

anyway, her first time actually looking at the void lake at the bottom of the world is in silksong so the point stands

[mystic fiber]

i think that because she's a pale being or higher being she's able to realize someone is dreaming of her so she can response

[flint wadi]

of course she would aknowledge her predicament because she is part of hornets memories

[mystic fiber]

but it's a loose theory

[waxen forum]

weeping angel situation; that which holds the image of the white lady becomes the white lady

[steep talon]

I subscribe to this interpretation, cause white lady connecting to some random dream is really weird

[edgy barn]

Not really. Both Hornet and Grimm are (to different extents) aware of their situation when you fight them in Godhome.

[waxen forum]

also, why is the white lady the one giving us the flower?

[quick thorn]

it's also possibly somehting to do with being root and connections
she has a connection to THK through shared parentage and is able to monitor THK's decline that way
Entirely possible that she could open a connection with hornet, thanks to hornet's own memory of her

[waxen forum]

she quite explicitly says it isnt hers

shouldnt we get the flower from zemer

[mystic fiber]

well i'm talking about being able to project herself into that dream that sort of stuff.

[steep talon]

Cause she showed it to Hornet in her childhood. That's about it

[flint wadi]

like its just such a weird "for the sake of it" interpretation, the entire point of red memory is that its entirely hornets recollection, and partially her recognizing why the "3 queens" made her upbringing so harsh

[quick thorn]

which is interesting, everblooms aren't from hallownest, and the person we get them from in HK is a more "recent" arrival

[waxen forum]

that also implies an entire kingdom with access to large numbers of void repellant flowers

[flint wadi]

i assume because of the royal family's proximity to z'emer they likely got introduced to them by her

[quick thorn]

well, even the kingdom it's native too might have everblooms in limited supply

[steep talon]

Yep, I mean they do grow pretty fast

[mystic fiber]

maybe not large numbers of , but definitly where everbloom originates

[flint wadi]

yeah, somewhere out there

[quick thorn]

especially since z'emer is probably a plant thing. So she and white lady would have a relationship that way, though not "being relatives"

[waxen forum]

do you think the cost of the memory ritual was more in the flower itself or the act of wrenching open memory

[flint wadi]

i think youre talking about isma

[mystic fiber]

talking about plant life, can we talk about greyroot a bit more?

[waxen forum]

because depending on the answer you could pull open hornet's memory for other, cheaper stuff

[steep talon]

I always thought z'emer is like a silverfish or a cockroach

[mystic fiber]

i think the whole stuff is weird asf

[edgy barn]

What do you want to talk about?

[zinc pivot]

Silverfish are those damn dirtcarvers

[waxen forum]

like duplicated silkshots in dlc

[steep talon]

Cost of going so far into the past, is my take

[bronze turret]

Haha, I'm watching a recorded stream of an youtuber playing SS in the background and they just got to Red Memory!

[waxen forum]

so going back a few days to grab copies of the ruined tool wouldnt be that bad then

[quick thorn]

no, the person who gives you the white flower in HK is a plant flower thingy

[flint wadi]

it took 3 hearts and 3 lives to open that memory soooo

[flint wadi]

shes not a plant

shes a bug

[steep talon]

Seems kinda inefficient but yeah iguess

[pale grove]

who is stronger. hornet in Weaver Queen or the knight in embrace the void?

[mortal birch]

i just cheated in the other 2 i'm not gonna lie to you Darkrai3333

[steep talon]

I'm just saying I wouldn't kill an old bug for a mediocre red tool

[waxen forum]

the most divine power of all
save editing

[quick thorn]

knight, not even a competition.

[edgy barn]

Hornet also goes very far into the past to get the hearts though. Before even GMS was around.

[quick thorn]

pale beings are powerless against unified void

[steep talon]

Please no powescaling I'm beggging

[mystic fiber]

i mean, how in the world did the greyroot or the curse managed to turn hornet and possibly GMS into roots in the curse ending, also it seems to respond violently to void and i just couldn't tell why.

[zinc pivot]

Depends on whether if the knight beckons the entire sea of void

[waxen forum]

yeah hornet didnt need to do anything special to access the ancient hearts

she killed them in their memory to summon perfect hearts in the present

[zinc pivot]

If they did everyone will bow to them

[waxen forum]

and it just took a song

[pale grove]

i was thinking just the knight not the whole void

[quick thorn]

when you first get cursed, you wake up inside a tree with a bunch of pilgrims around that have been turned into roots

[steep talon]

I was told that she's supposedly using a little bit of her power to do that. Not sure how but okay I guess

[edgy barn]

Hornet was the parasite's host as it finally matured enough to overtake her. GMS was weakened by the fight and just like Hornet is able to bind her, the parasite is able to snatch and consume her.

[quick thorn]

the curse has the power to turn living things into wood, draining their life force for power

[pale grove]

well its both featless so theres no real powerscaling to be done

[flint wadi]

yeah but the point of the hearts is that theyre the few artifacts in pharloom that possess the power to facilitate a spell

[waxen forum]

except the hearts dont have that power in the present anymore

[zinc pivot]

Even match i assume
Hornet now gains a whole higher being and a half inside her

[mortal birch]

The cursed ending sucks and shouldn't exist it only serves to nerf GMS and there's like no interesting lore implications

[waxen forum]

they're faded and weak

[mortal birch]

big monster broke free wow

[steep talon]

You would be surprised, how little people need to powerscale

[edgy barn]

How does it nerf GMS?

[mortal birch]

the fight needs to be easier to allow for cursed ending to be possible

[quick thorn]

yeah... that's why you go into their dreams instead to retrieve the hearts from them in their primes

[light tendon]

Would someone please explain to me how the ending of ss "true" ending fight correlates to the endings of hollow knight? Eg sealed siblings ending

[zinc pivot]

Await mod to make Any Mother Silk

[edgy barn]

I can garantue you that was not TC's thought process

[waxen forum]

then why didnt that cost an entire ritual like getting something from hornet's memory?

[quick thorn]

well, it isn't any of the sealed endings

[zinc pivot]

Its a split between DNM and ETV

[mortal birch]

it's either a continuation of the godhome ending or the dream no more ending

we see the shade lord but we also see the vessels indivual shade

[zinc pivot]

Because those are the endings where the knight commands the void

[quick thorn]

because it's a physical aspect of the person who's memory is being invaded, not a powerful object being conjured from nothing

[flint quartz]

would the sister of the void ending show that the knight developed the ability to feel (basically care for his sister)

[mortal birch]

we been known that

[pale grove]

probably

[quick thorn]

considering flying nosk, obviously

[dire lynx]

that was alreaady shown with winged nosk

[flint wadi]

i suppose(?) its a difference between retreiving something entirely from memory and just "riling up" the power in an existing object

[flint quartz]

what do yall mean with the nosk

[zinc pivot]

I question one thing
How does Nosk know what the knight cherishes if its fucking dead and in someone elses dream

[mortal birch]

Nosk imitates people you care about to trick you

[bronze turret]

I think it might, if one of the DLCs elaborate and expand enough on the whole concept of the witch and the curse and what are they about, but! It's safe to say Cursed Ending is like one of those "weird endings" from old games, like the UFO ending in Silent Hill 2. Games pre-2010 had a lot of those and, Team Cherry takes a lot of inspiration from side-scrollers of the 80's/90's, which also had such endings.

[dire lynx]

nosk takes the face of those you care for

[waxen forum]

the pollen heart doesnt even exist, we pull it out of a stone thing

[mystic fiber]

the weird ending is the shroom ending

[flint wadi]

like peering into memory like hornet does i guess is just a much limited version of what red memory is

[mortal birch]

I do think dlc would be cool but it would be hard for them to make dlc branching off a specific ending i don't know hopefully it would be so sick

[mystic fiber]

i think curse ending is one of lore canon endings anyway

[bronze turret]

I know Chen, that's why I put the term between quotation marks. I'm talking about a brand of strange ending that was common to games pre-2010 that have existed since the 80's

[zinc pivot]

There should be a lifeblood ending
Where hornet od and chug the same thing into gms nonexistent pie hole

[flint wadi]

nyleth is weird but given that the other 3 hearts were alive (yes, khann included i think), it probably makes sense to assume that she might be too?

[pale grove]

until whole pharloom is enveloped by lifeblood which then births a horrific monster. i like it

[waxen forum]

this is a stone statue and the pollen heart just appears after

[mystic fiber]

well i think, the shellwood eco balance is just bad but not entirely broken

[steep talon]

You can see little vines though!!!!

Erm kinda

[spare pendant]

You retrieve it from the dream

Nyleth is long dead

[flint wadi]

i can only guess that nyleth fused with shellwood and the heart was pulled out of the ground or beneath the shrine maybe

[waxen forum]

yes, we retrieve a physical object from a dream

exactly like what we do with red memory

and only one of those cost an entire ritual

[steep talon]

Yep, I think he's arguing that we do that

[waxen forum]

so what's up with that?

why can we spawn nyleth's heart for free?

[flint wadi]

as i said maybe you dont retrieve it from dream, after all you dont do that with the other 3 hearts

[spare pendant]

The everbloom is an object deep in Hornet's memory while the hearts are the physical manifestation of one's power and nature

[flint wadi]

nyleth is not really a bug its not impossible that she fused with shellwood

[zinc pivot]

I assume Nyleths essence has fused with shellwood and the shrine serves as a communion point like real shrine

[mystic fiber]

i think by doing the dream fight , hornet somehow squeeze the last bit of juice out of the ancient heart's owners

[spare pendant]

Notably, taking the heart means destroying them

[zinc pivot]

We use the melody to enliven the entire wood and it gives us the heart

[mystic fiber]

just my head canon

[waxen forum]

actually now that im looking at it there's a little bud there

and the fountain turns off after the fight

[steep talon]

Hmm, do you not? Really, I thought that cool finisher is Hornet ripping out the hearts, I guess I'm missremembering

[flint wadi]

her heart could just be "the nub of it all" as is description by the caretaker

[bronze turret]

A petrified form that has its insides preserved after eras. Sounds like a plausible trope in a fantasy scenario, not the first time I've seen such idea! Iirc we have examples of this kind of biological process IRL too

[waxen forum]

if that fountain is nyleth

[flint wadi]

idk honestly

[waxen forum]

erm

kinda weird

[zinc pivot]

Wood

[steep talon]

More like the vegetation surrounding it is nyleth or what remains of her

[mystic fiber]

also we actually see a petrified guy bring back to life by song

[flint wadi]

i just think that the pollip heart is a physical object cause nyleth is SOMEWHERE in that shrine

[mystic fiber]

the edge watcher or whatever his name

[waxen forum]

true, that's also weird

[mystic fiber]

hidden boss in kraka

[steep talon]

Watching the edging

[waxen forum]

why him specifically and not every other coral soldier

[edgy barn]

He alive they dead

[steep talon]

Because he was told to watch by Khann senpai

[mystic fiber]

erm because he's based

[bronze turret]

neverlake's idea of that statue being Nyleth seems more plausible, indeed. There are many examples of animals that go in stasis IRL that promptly return back after they've finished their hybernating period, and Team Cherry's world has a lot of ideas based on biology

[mortal birch]

beacuse he's different

[spare pendant]

He's not fully petrified, just kinda long asleep

[spare pendant]

hibernation doesn't work like that

[waxen forum]

why does he call it a river

[flint wadi]

and to add to this nyleth is not really a bug so she shares some petrification shenanigans with karak people likely

[mystic fiber]

the same can be said about Khann. so Khann maybe is also alive?

[flint wadi]

i think his post is more easily disturbed maybe

[waxen forum]

neither kharak or the memory coral is really a river

[spare pendant]

Coral tower is flooded by a salt river

[flint wadi]

or he and khann are on different levels of being petrified

[mystic fiber]

there used to be a river

[spare pendant]

Khann is fully dead, you don't wake him up

[bronze turret]

Which is also plausible within a fantasy world because century-old trees can petrify!

[flint wadi]

coral tower mightve been a waterway that kept the gorge alive

[mystic fiber]

there used to be flowing waters in red coral , hence the river

but alas it was cut

[spare pendant]

literally cut

the citadel blocked it off

[flint wadi]

that is if the water source was the pale lakes*

[flint wadi]

its not really known but i think its meant to be the coral towers apex

[mystic fiber]

also Khann arena looked much better back then

[flint wadi]

oh yes it did

[mystic fiber]

😭

[flint wadi]

but that was when khann was a regular ol act 1 boss 🥺

[mystic fiber]

bring back this room plz TC

[mystic fiber]

i'm mostly okay with the coral tower we got , but the boss fight room, man

[bronze turret]

Aw, that would've made for a better throne chamber for Karak than what we got in the finished work, seriously!

[mystic fiber]

now it's basically just a dark room with almost no decorations

[abstract mural]

Is pharloom related to hallownest in any way

[mystic fiber]

they got the same void underneath

i dont know they are related in other way or not

[flint wadi]

not really, weavers are the only link pharloom has to hallownest

[steel hazel]

So I just upgraded my needle to the ||hivesteel needle|| and does this , aswell as her dialogue, feed more into the idea that hornet was trained by vespa in the 'daughter of three Queens' theory?

[lone folio]

they didnt have any contact but the weavers are in both and pharloom seems to be aware of hallownest

[dire lynx]

its confirmed in red memory

[flint wadi]

keep playing

[flint wadi]

damnit why would you do that

not even marked

[dire lynx]

this is a spoiler channel

[mystic fiber]

yeah TC basically slap the three queen stuff onto your face in later gameplay

[steel hazel]

Its fine lol I've already heard about the red memory on reddit dw

[mystic fiber]

it's absolute peak if you are old HK fan

[flint wadi]

still if you can tell someone didnt encounter it why would you go out of your way to spoil

[dire lynx]

they wanted answers so i gave them

[zinc pivot]

I mean
They come to ss lore
They are asking for it

[flint wadi]

yeah you reacting it doesnt make it any less wrong just saying

point up all you want

[wintry flame]

yea

[zinc pivot]

Lol

[dire lynx]

they wanted to know and dont mind what i said, why are you so hung up about it lol

[whole holly]

guys what makes Delicate Flower powerful enough to repel void itself?

[wintry flame]

yeah

[spare pendant]

It produces a pale (i.e divine) glow

[bronze turret]

Pretty much. And the flower's name has been revealed, but I wager you haven't finished the game yet?

[spare pendant]

Light repels the void, and divine light is obviously stronger

[flint wadi]

it repels void, yes

[whole holly]

how so?

[wintry flame]

awesomesauce

[flint wadi]

its not really elaborated, but likely has to do with the glow it emits

[mystic fiber]

tbh , we dont know

[zinc pivot]

Its light is supposedly healing too
Elderbug and Oro the two cynical characters of HK become happier afterwards

So i think the light repels darkness in general

[mystic fiber]

it was never told but the light of it seems to repel void at the cost of flower itself

[whole holly]

Pale Light is it's traits but White Lady says that it is not from her of PK

[spare pendant]

it's from a far off land

[bronze turret]

Hmmm, I always presumed their happiness was from the gesture of receiving a gentle gift unprompted by any exchange of favors rather than the flower's magical powers itself

[mystic fiber]

tbf it's most likely this case

i would be happy if a little cute knight give me a flower

[zinc pivot]

Elderbug’s reaction to the flower shows that it’s not quite any flower a bug commonly seen

[whole holly]

"Not of me that flower, nor of this kingdom. Far it traveled to reach this place, brought by one beloved, fair knight of lands serene. There is rare power hidden in those frail petals. To hold it so close, one must surely be unaware of its nature... " foreshadowing at it's finest

[mystic fiber]

[bronze turret]

Same

[zinc pivot]

He also finds its light soothing

So yeah it has the gesture and some magical qualities with it as well

[whole holly]

i believe it's divine aura is related to Pale Being from Distant Lands where Ze'mer comes from

[zinc pivot]

A progenitor of Pale Beings of sort?
WL called the flower the first light

[whole holly]

i know it doesn't have evidence and is purely speculation, but Pale stuff is usually related to Pale Beings

[zinc pivot]

Sylphean slug is just unn’s cooler white cousins

[bronze turret]

It seems the genesis of TC's world might take after the "in the beginning, there was only Light and Dark" trope

[zinc pivot]

Could be
With darkness being void and light being pale beings

[whole holly]

First Light? i believe First Light is source of Pale Being's powers

[whole holly]

what?

[waxen forum]

If pale light repels void, why is the void so hungry for GMS

She is a pale being

She emits pale light

[bronze turret]

It's not the same kind of light. The story implies the flower originates from a much purer, untained source of light.

[zinc pivot]

Its a joke

[whole holly]

okay, it just didn't make any sense

[zinc pivot]

Godseeker seems to be blind then
Saying PKs light is brighter

[zinc pivot]

The pale oil comes from sylphean slug
So it must be pale
That kind of thing
And unn is a giant slug

[whole holly]

it seems like quantity/concentration matters

[whole holly]

we don't see her in game sadly

[zinc pivot]

Yeah i subscribe to the Godseeker is fucking blind theory

[bronze turret]

As with many genesis stories, things that are tied more closely to a primordial source (which is often portrayed as the purest form of something) tends to be more powerful than the things that came after across the eras. Something akin to Tolkien's genealogy of the Ainur.

[whole holly]

well yeah, it didn't know Void was capable of anything until it witnessed defeat of radiance

[quartz plinth]

GMS vs Nighmare king grimm, who wins the guitar hero competition

[waxen forum]

Does more arms help with guitar hero?

[zinc pivot]

GMS is slow though
Meanwhile NKG blitz you with that guitar riff double damage transition to pufferfish

[bronze turret]

More fingers, so I say yes! (my pinkie still hasn't forgiven me for playing that game, my hand is too small for the buttons' spacing)

[bronze turret]

funny enough, the pufferfish fireballs always looked like notes on a musical sheet to me!

[bronze turret]

https://tenor.com/view/skritches-puffer-fish-cute-animals-gif-13642640

(Ok I found this while looking for NKG pufferfish and I couldn't not share)

[wintry flame]

are spotty skarrs sick?

[zinc pivot]

Pov: Void given focus patting NKG

[bronze turret]

I guess this is their camouflage paint

[wintry flame]

he is spotty for an amazing reason

[zinc pivot]

Maybe just another sub group of ants

[mighty agate]

Is Mt. Fay like, mentioned by name anywhere else in the game other than the map?

Cos if not, that just implies Shakra saw this massive mountain and decided to name it

[zinc pivot]

I mean does she even know what a fay is or is a fay on this mountain

[mighty agate]

Like iirc it's often just referred to as "the peak" or something

[zinc pivot]

Where exactly does a fayforn get mentioned as one?

Or just the fucking description of the faydown cloak

[mighty agate]

True, it's weird lol

like I can't recall Mt. Fay being referred to by name anywhere in dialogue unless I missed it

[bronze turret]

Well, the game design explanation is that it's purely for game design purposes, but if we're looking for an in-lore explanation, I would wager that the mount was named after fayforn, which may be a deity that some people know of (Mask Maker included), and then the mountain was named after her, and it's a shortening of "fayforn".

Like how we shorten or give nicknames to cities

[mighty agate]

I mean, that's probably right, but it's really just been bugging me lol that MOUNT FAY is not even like talked about by name

[mortal birch]

A fay/fae in common fantasy refers to an elf or faerie

like creature

[waxen forum]

Mt fay is actually a Fae, and its name has power

[bronze turret]

And sylph is an air elemental!

[mortal birch]

now you guys get it

[bronze turret]

Faes are pigeons confirmed

[waxen forum]

True

[mortal birch]

birds are the equivalent of fairies to bugs

[zinc pivot]

Or Dragons

[mighty agate]

But I'm not crazy right, it's weird that Mt. Fay is never mentioned explicitly by name? And yet somehow we manage to know its name simply from the map Shakra handed us?

[mortal birch]

is there no title flash when you enter?

[waxen forum]

Weavenest atla is never mentioned by name

Nobody ever says Kharak either

[mighty agate]

Ah well, consequences of game design

thanks for the insight

[bronze turret]

And I just found out 'forn' is an archaic word for 'ancient'! I dug a little deeper and found out the word 'fay' in old english also doubles as a shortened word for 'faith'. So perhaps, her name means 'Old Faith', to allude to her nature as a deity that was worshipped in older times!

[left dune]

Are there lyrics in Tormented Trobbio? Like of course the choir in it sings "Trobbio!", but it kind of sounds like a lot of the other stuff the choir sings is words as well.

[zinc pivot]

Shakra just makes up names

The Mist is product of Hornet though

How original my dear hornet

[bronze turret]

There seems to be, but it's really difficult to discern. Guess this would be a good thing to ask in one of TC's FAQs

[zinc pivot]

I can find ripped audio and check if theres anything else

Found my percussion for Cut Through that way

[bronze turret]

It's an idea!

[left dune]

I knew I wasn't crazy lol

[waxen forum]

Trobbio says adieu when he kills you

France is canon

[raw pewter]

Trobbio is from France?!

[zinc pivot]

Yeah no tormented trobbio isn’t layered

[bronze turret]

Nah it's perfectly natural to imagine. Just so you have an idea, all choir in Dark Souls 3 soundtracks were assumed to be pure gibberish, but it was only 3 years later that someone who was actually versed in latin, with a good ear and likely sound tools, managed to figure out something that could decently pass for lyrics that make sense in the Abyss Watchers piece.

[zinc pivot]

I think its just the average background choir, god forbids larkin adding real words to his music

[ornate lodge]

Does Trobbio even have much lore besides being a theater guy

[bronze turret]

Funny enough, his name spells like an Italian name rather than French!

[zinc pivot]

Man i cant stop laughing
Underworks theme in game is called
OPPRESSED

[bronze turret]

Not much, I'm afraid. The only texts tied to him are his diary entries and the Hunter's Journal ones

[bronze turret]

SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT

I walked that damn mill with anklets and brew and all I got was a lousy rosary for one full gauge!

[ornate lodge]

They did my guy dirty
https://tenor.com/view/silksong-silk-song-trobbio-trobio-fake-death-gif-8522714885290678670

[bronze turret]

"TROOOOBBIOOOOOoooooooooo.........."

[left dune]

His lore is that he is the one character voice in the credits that has the voice actor and the character named

which makes him special or something idk lol

[ornate lodge]

oh- ded

[spare pendant]

yay my (and godfriend's, sumwan's) work on https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Lifeblood got pushed to main :D

[ebon silo]

oh nice you etched ur name on the wall of hollow knight

[spare pendant]

i can die now /j /lh

[tacit lake]

chat do they have smth in common

[pliant meadow]

That's the conductor outfit

[mystic fiber]

it's a conductor's dead body

so they look exactly the same

[mystic fiber]

great. so the plamium stuff are your work i suppose?

[tacit lake]

ooh, conductors look like that, mind explaining why can dead corpses move?

[spare pendant]

I essentially wrote the whole page except for the history section and the gallery, although I was basing on an old draft by exempt medic

[mystic fiber]

silk dregs made manifest by dead bug's pain or smth

[spare pendant]

And one of the content mods helped me format it, since I'm used to mediawiki formatting and not HTML

[spare pendant]

All silk is one with Soul, and the silk in whiteward is made of very angry Soul

[tacit lake]

wait a second, the soul of so many bugs, wb this mob that appears only in steel mode that is abyss

[tacit lake]

ty

[spare pendant]

The void creature? What about it?

[mystic fiber]

that guy is summoned savior, it's unravelled

[zinc pivot]

Summoned savior also doesn’t give you silk
True horror

[spare pendant]

collector if it was a dream boss

[zinc pivot]

Collector if it doesn’t spawn ads and grows a spine

[tacit lake]

what type of souls are those

[waxen forum]

It’s void, it doesn’t have a soul

[spare pendant]

"Souls" as in the real-world idea doesn't exist in hollow knight. Soul is a substance, essentially just the animating lifeforce of creatures

Void consumes Soul, and can also animate things instead of Soul

[mystic fiber]

it's just void, it doesnt have soul, as to my knowledge

[tacit lake]

so , why does it have pilgrims head on it,

[zinc pivot]

Soul does contain leftover will though
You hear the horrid sound you make after shooting fireball?

[spare pendant]

That's Essence

I believe, Essence is carried over through Soul

[zinc pivot]

Before you have dream nail the sound can still be heard

[tacit lake]

also what were the dream bosses, karmelita khan and who else?

[zinc pivot]

It’s summoned in the same manner jiji summoned our shade
Using dead bugs’ regret to manifest a form of void