sk-lore

[crisp basalt]

But there was at least 3 of them when they left

[muted lantern]

So rapid stab is probably something unique to secsen and lace

[quick thorn]

they teach hornet the pin art moves, and one of them is basically the same attack

ill go get a screenshot

[crisp basalt]

It could be like nail masters, they all have their signature move

[foggy fractal]

so we're trying to figure out who got which move from who rn ?

[crisp basalt]

Rapid stabs could be of the Dead Pintress or the one that makes cloak

[muted lantern]

It is interesting how far the nail/pin masters moves can spread, since broken vessel has moves from sly and oro iirc

[cobalt coyote]

You mean seamstress?

[crisp basalt]

Well, if you talk to Pintress she does confirm Seamstress is one of them

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah

[muted lantern]

Doesn't look as close as sec sen and laces which are both ripostes iirc

[foggy fractal]

theres the pinstress, seamstress, and a third dead one in ducts

[lethal burrow]

Second sentinels entire move set is made up of lace moves, pinstress moves, and shaman crest moves.

[cobalt coyote]

Ductstress

[rare meteor]

the thing is, the more intelligent automatons seem to have been made using soul (silk, whatever) from living bugs. Cogwork dancers, all the Architects, there's a whole secret room in Whiteward dedicated to ripping out silk and using it to make them "serve beyond shell" judging by needolin dialogue

[crisp basalt]

She has the Wreath on her

The anti Maggot wreath iirc

[quick thorn]

seems similar enough
it's hard to get a good screenshot of hornet's tbh

[cobalt coyote]

Antimaggotwreathstress

[edgy nebula]

the wreath and quick sling shouldve been swapped obtainment wise

[rare meteor]

if the pinstresses were defeated by the citadel, having one singular automaton that uses pinstress skills seems awfully suspicious

[muted lantern]

Maybe wanderers crest whoever they are their soul was used for sentinels?

[rare meteor]

almost like they captured one and repurposed her

[edgy nebula]

it makes more sense that the stilkins who dive into maggot water on the regular would have something that repels it, and that the pinstress would have a tool to hone weapons

[crisp basalt]

It's not one, you can see 3 dead other ones on the room you fight them

They are just the only one left

[cobalt coyote]

In his Boss room arent there a bunch of deactivated/dead sentinels?

[rare meteor]

did not notice that. Point still stands though

[foggy fractal]

well we insert the heart into the second sentinel, not sure if there is a fly in it
ig theres nothing that says that this couldn't be the case but the explanation of whoever made the sentinels just encorporated the moves in works just as validly I think

[quick thorn]

unlikely, due to another point - the second sentinel was de-activated around the time the whiteward experiments started
SS explicitly states a directive to kill Haunted individuals - those with silk in their shells.
It's likely the sentinels were deactivated due to this, and the blame "pinned" (heh) on the pinstresses

[rare meteor]

it's just kinda weird how 2nd sentinel is the only enemy other than the pinstress who does that cross attack, and a very specific sort of move that definitely doesn't feel like a coincidental similarity

there's definitely an implied connection there, though it's not 100% clear what came first

[crisp basalt]

Ok but TBF, how many other enemies we fight that use exactly two blades

To even be able to do that attack

[feral inlet]

Maybe it’s like a copy version of her like the dancers for the other ppl

Or a mix of a few diff ppl?

[crisp basalt]

My guess is just that Sentinels were trained by Pintress

[abstract rivet]

can I get a requick recap on why every pilgrim wants to enter the Citadel

[rare meteor]

that would be exactly what i'm talking about since the cogwork dancers aren't really "copies"

[feral inlet]

I’m pretty sure it’s something due to the silk being in every pharloom residents shells or something as well

[rare meteor]

the other prince was used in the process of making them

[quick thorn]

could be but unlikely - we see the automata are created by imbuing them with the souls of bugs (the flies) and they only started getting created in whiteward.
Why would second sentinel have a directive to kill bugs with silk in their shells, if they just made bugs "immortal" through silk?

[abstract rivet]

not enough explanation smhh

[edgy nebula]

weavers started the pilgrimage and hired condcutors to get bugs to keep gms asleep with their faith and song after they left pharloom iirc, atleast i think thats what happened?

[abstract rivet]

tf was pilgrimage again

[feral inlet]

How many of the pinstress ppl were captured or killed according to seamstress iirc? That’s why she hides away from citadel eyes? Maybe some of them were used? Idk

[abstract rivet]

I deadass forgot it after doing true ending

[rare meteor]

that's my theory at least

[crisp basalt]

I feel like of Sentinels were made with Pintress soul, there would be something like secret room to show you that's the case

[rare meteor]

i assume there were more of them than 6

[crisp basalt]

Or something in the Sentinels Needolin dialogue

[edgy nebula]

i wish more npcs got expanded on

[quick thorn]

well, there is a room that suggests bug souls were being turned into the fly lantern things, and those are used in automata. Not the clawmaidens, though

but again, that's in whiteward

[crisp basalt]

Sure, yes, but I mean, like with dancers

[rare meteor]

it's just a lot of things that line up and have no real counterargument to my knowledge

[crisp basalt]

Where there is the Whole Green Prince to explain whats going on

[quick thorn]

wait there's a room for that?

[crisp basalt]

No I mean there is extra explanation also the Needolin dialogue

Speaking of there is so much stuff hidden in those

[rare meteor]

well, we know bugs were slaughtered en masse to then use their silk to create automatons

some were on board, some were not

[crisp basalt]

Given Sentinel hunts the Silk possessed, I have feeling they were not made the same way

Especially since they are not haunted

[quick thorn]

hmm

[crisp basalt]

Other Silk Possessed automatons are all haunted

[rare meteor]

could it not have been made as a precautionary measure, in case the whole silk abuse thing gets out of hand

[crisp basalt]

But then why would they be locked away exactly when the abuse started

[rare meteor]

is the timeline exactly like that?

[crisp basalt]

Ok TBF we don't know

We don't know a lot of things

[rare meteor]

i feel like the whole silk stuffing was happening for a very long time, GMS was watching it happen silently until enough bugs were contaminated and then just sprung the trap

no automaton's helping you out of that mess

[muted lantern]

Im surprised nobody asked me 90% of the weavers masks are identical if they aren't natural in the mask debate, as that would be a pretty solid point considering there would be some variance based on personal preference wouldn't there? That being said still not willing to throw my hands up and say there isn't a explanation in mind for herrahs mask situation irregardless of if it's natural or not.

[quick thorn]

because they got in the way of their immortality
the whiteward experiments started, the sentinels attacked the bugs it was done one, they were deactivated and then the pinstresses got ousted as a result

[quick thorn]

I think weaver masks are natural, judging by First Sinner's transformation from pharlid to weaver

But there isn't just one kind of pharlid!
Pharlid divers have a slightly different mask design and body type to standard pharlids

[muted lantern]

Yeah they probably are natural, I was saying above that the straw that broke it for me is realizing they would probably have a lot more variety of masks if their masks were custom made for them.

I think I was a little too attached to them not being natural masks

[quick thorn]

maybe, maybe not

Styx has a mask a lot like that mother character we get longclaw from. But Styx's mask is definitely custom made, since he has several masks in his den

[muted lantern]

Im just talking weavers, since we see so many of them with the same one

Styx definitely has a manmade mask

[quick thorn]

masks are just very confusing tbh. Like, the architect's mask comes off when she dies (automata), some characters don't need masks at all like craws and vaultkeepers
Some masks are full headpieces, some aren't
Hell even for weavers, Herrah has a different mask to all the others. First sinner has a "cracked" mask... but also in the cutscene we see her mask has always been that way, from the moment she was enlightened

i just generally don't like to think about the masks because they're cool and all but definitely 100% "we are inconsistent and confusing lore" made by TC to confuse us

[muted lantern]

I'm still very uncertain on how herrahs mask situation works

Everyone else kinda just handwaves it which I think is a lazy way to go about lore, assuming tc doesn't think about stuff when they retcon

One person said she might be a different type of weaver which is possible but I don't see it

[crisp basalt]

My guess is she just removed her old weaver maks and put on the dreamer mask

We know both of these are possible

[muted lantern]

But if her mask was natural that would be equivalent to like tearing off her own face, which went pretty badly for widow, maybe if it's not forcible? Idk tho

[crisp basalt]

Well, Widow was forcible and also she is pinned and haunted

So she is like triple messed up

[quick thorn]

we don't have evidence for that, given monomon probably just has that mask, and we know the teacher's mask is also hers

[quick thorn]

widow isn't haunted. she is a willing participant

as for her mask and pins, it was probably the weavers who did that to her

[zinc pivot]

I had this theory the other day that Widow was punished for something related to music

Because she has a memory in the ruined harp room in cradle

[crisp basalt]

But... She is a Weaver herself, also she isn't not from Pharloom

Which means she was brought in after the Weavers left

[zinc pivot]

Her memory implies otherwise

[crisp basalt]

We know cause there is the cage she was brought in

[zinc pivot]

The staked to service part is also quite unclear

[quick thorn]

No, widow can't be 1/4 weaver. There's no other evidence of such
She uses the pharlid move, just like First Sinner. We only see pure weavers do such

[zinc pivot]

And in flashbacks she was playing music, with a full weaver body

[quick thorn]

she also just looks like first sinner, which we know as an original weaver

[ebon silo]

If we can see water but we can't see air do fishes see air but not water?

[zinc pivot]

Yeah the weaver claws thing isn’t a concrete evidence either

[quick thorn]

it would help if we could see more than like... 3 weavers fight tbh

"Something in their assault reminds me of my own skill, though their talents are born purely of instinct."
Hornet recognizes it, but not as a weaver attack

[zinc pivot]

Back to what i was saying, a possibility was GMS was a bit enthralled by the music weavers played and feared the possibility of being put to sleep

So she could’ve punished Widow and her fellow weavers to forbid other weavers from following their examples

[quick thorn]

or, the weavers realized what they were, rebelled against GMS and put her to sleep
Widow was against this, and so the weavers punished her

The First Sinner being the one to discover the truth, and punished for it

[zinc pivot]

It’s a valid take I agree

[quick thorn]

Widow is fanatical in following GMS, after all

[eternal gazelle]

I don't think widow's disfigurement was a punishment, I think it's insurance

[static trellis]

I’m loosely guessing that maybe the weavers in Deepnest had evolved to have their masks be different? Like how animals in real life evolve to fit their environments. So maybe she evolved? (I know that makes no sense with the flashback sequence and the other weavers retaining their masks, but that’s my best guess)

[eternal gazelle]

She's physically incapable of turning against GMS because she can't produce her own silk anymore

[quick thorn]

i do wonder, why isn't she haunted?

like, is there anything stopping GMS from haunting her?

[eternal gazelle]

I have 2 answers for that

1. she wouldn't need to be directly controlled because she's already subservient

2. it's possible that weavers are immune to haunting and that's why they were all killed

[static trellis]

I was leaning toward the second option. We do see the hidden scene in Bellhart of them attempting to haunt Hornet, but she breaks free. I assumed cause she’s part Wyrm at first, but could be because Weavers are immune. Makes sense on why they’d be imprisoned and killed instead

[hidden meteor]

Has anyone ever actually seen this gilly interaction mentioned in the wiki? went there as soon as possible on a fresh save and couldnt find her(nor is there a spear skarr)

[eternal gazelle]

Actually the haunting is a somewhat recent thing so that's probably not why weavers went extinct

[quick thorn]

I guess that does connect to the whole Lace thing. Better a child of silk or smth

[ebon silo]

What do I do next

[quick thorn]

bait

[eternal gazelle]

This is a discussion channel

[ebon silo]

Oh

wrong channel 🥀

[static trellis]

I figured it was in preparation of the Haunting. Like she got rid of those immune to it so she can do it and not be stopped?

[edgy nebula]

chat is this real

[ebon silo]

Y'know atleast the skarr survived the haunting to an extent

[quick thorn]

GMS did create Lace specifically because she cannot disobey her

[eternal gazelle]

The question is how she would actualize that while being kept imprisoned and asleep

[quick thorn]

being well, literally made out of her silk, control is easy

[quick thorn]

well she actualized the capture of weavers... but that's about it

[eternal gazelle]

The choir took over pharloom after the weavers died out and were apparently able to quell GMS for a time

[frozen hornet]

Is herrah really a weaver?
Her body looks nothing like other weavers we've seen

[fading moon]

So do we know now the canon ending of HK?

[edgy nebula]

apparently yes

[quick thorn]

before mizello started the whiteward experiments like an idiot and everything began to spiral

[edgy nebula]

it's possible she isnt purebred as an explanation for her weird body, it's possible her mask was removed/taken off or she just looks funky

[static trellis]

Loyal followers, maybe? Like what if Widow was loyal to GMS rather than against her, she helped in doing her bidding?

[eternal gazelle]

Theoretically that would have been... fine? Maybe? If she never woke up

[static trellis]

I have no idea if that’s correct, just a guess

[eternal gazelle]

Still don't know what caused that aside from Hornet's arrival speeding it up

[quick thorn]

well, from the orders we see inside the cradle, EVERYONE got sent to capture hornet that GMS could get

[eternal gazelle]

I don't believe that she was the one ordering those retrievals

They're choral commandments, and the choir was trying to keep her asleep

[muted lantern]

Hornet is called weaver in half part iirc, so herrah would have to be a full weaver, having your mask removed seems pretty traumatic, I guess maybe it was necessary to become a dreamer, but herrah seems pretty unphased by it. If we are assuming the masks are naturally formed

[static trellis]

She could’ve influenced those commandments?

[quick thorn]

there's a huge amount of silk around those cages after all

[eternal gazelle]

I don't see why she would, the haunting is a hivemind situation like the infection as stated by Pavo

[muted lantern]

And the idea that herrah just looks like that is, a possibility, but, not a really satisfying one

[eternal gazelle]

And there is no writing about the haunting anywhere

[quick thorn]

Pavo doesn't actually know whats going on though

[muted lantern]

Pavo is the god of knowledge

[eternal gazelle]

He doesn't give an explanation, he just said his memories mixed with other people's while he was on the thread

[zinc pivot]

Maybe she made them wrote the conmandment to ensure the mission goes through? Pharloom isn’t exactly walking distance to Hallownest

[muted lantern]

The only information he lacks is the 57 precepts, this is what stops him from controlling all reality

[static trellis]

I still feel like it’s either an evolutionary thing or because of her status as a queen/beast? Could be a different species of spider/weaver too? Unsure

[eternal gazelle]

Why would GMS need a mail system for people she can directly control

[zinc pivot]

Because there is a range?

[quick thorn]

well, there is. Below an elder pilgrim room that requires wall cling, there's text about the silk wrapped around pilgrim's hearts

[muted lantern]

The control is subtle at first, it didn't fully take over people until later

[static trellis]

Could be to affect those she didn’t control as well? Sent to capture someone who could hasten the Haunting so she can properly take over Pharloom?

[zinc pivot]

Also yeah the Haunting is definitely not day 1 takes all

[eternal gazelle]

Let's think about this from a different perspective

[muted lantern]

Also the haunting controlled leadership earlier than the rest I think, so they still had to order the people below them

[edgy nebula]

i feel like it's possible that herrah couldve had her mask removed, widow's also had hers removed and both her and herrah's faces are covered at all times

it also makes extra sense herrah wouldve asked for an heir if shes being mutilated

[muted lantern]

Bro learned about micro plastics and lost it

[zinc pivot]

Could be, leaders mustve had a lot of silk inside them

[edgy nebula]

the only thing i cant explain is why herrah's body looks like that

[quick thorn]

I don't entirely think so, the conductor is fairly cooperative and he seems to be the leader

[eternal gazelle]

The choir's goal before the haunting took over the kingdom was to keep GMS locked away and continue exploiting her

They were independently tracking down weaver descendents to serve this goal

[muted lantern]

Herrah does seem a bit better off than widow was, but it's not impossible I suppose the removal not being forcible, and the masks could be required for the sealing since they are imprinted right on the black egg

[quick thorn]

i don't think exploiting her was a thing.
what they could be doing is trying to get more silk through more weavers

[muted lantern]

My best guess is she ate a lot to prepare for her hibernation, despite not needing to

[quick thorn]

why would her natural mask not work for the egg? Hornet's does

[muted lantern]

That's true

[zinc pivot]

What evidence suggest this is the case?

[muted lantern]

But I suppose hornet is inside the egg

[edgy nebula]

herrah's probably better off cause it was most likely a surgical thing, widow's was probably just torn off

[muted lantern]

Rune harp from conductor in act 3

[eternal gazelle]

The entire citadel is referred to as a mechanism to keep her caged by Hornet

[quick thorn]

really there just isn't enough dreamers to make good claims haha...

[edgy nebula]

no clue, we're just making theories for why herrah looks the way she does

[zinc pivot]

I mean the part that Choir is the one enforcing this

[muted lantern]

Herrah could have also taken the mask when she became queen of deepest? To represent a change in her identity from weaver to beast?

[eternal gazelle]

That would be the rune harp the other person mentioned

[quick thorn]

while hornet knows this, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone in the citadel truly does. The religion was setup for the purpose after all, only specific people like the vaultkeepers and conductors would know the true purpose

[muted lantern]

Would have still been unpleasant but as others have said herrah is just hardcore like that

If anyone would tear their own face off to announce herself as new queen it would be hereah

[steep talon]

But then why did Hornet got born with the same mask as herrah, it's genetic no?

[dapper willow]

hello ss lore channel

[edgy nebula]

hello Balazs1102

[eternal gazelle]

Okay so if the leadership of the citadel knows that it's important to keep GMS asleep, they would be taking steps to actualize that right

What kind of actions might that entail

[quick thorn]

First generation probably... Mizello less so

whiteward is kind of a turning point

[muted lantern]

Well hornets features are a mix of pks and herrahs, and the long horns aren't dissimilar to pv's and hornet doesn't have the same number of eyes, though her horns are closer to herrahs than pv's, maybe she changed her mask to look more like her daughter? But that's just speculation at that point, it's possible herrahs just a fucked up looking weaver but that's a rather unsatisfying answer and I like to think tc thought about it more than that

[dapper willow]

song seems to be keeping her asleep
and they did make a ton of musical instruments

[muted lantern]

Keeping the songs of the citadel going is the main one, which requires the citadels continues maintenence

[eternal gazelle]

There's a line about this I've seen tossed around from the text dump but I have no clue where it happens in game

[paper carbon]

If I had played a nickle for every game that had an organisation called 'The Choir', who had contact with a godlike being whom they kept imprisoned, I'd have two nickles, which isn't a lot but its weird it happened twice

[muted lantern]

I believe it's a mask maker line in act 2

[zinc pivot]

“Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and
pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

This has nothing to do with the Choirs role in kidnapping the weavers

[steep talon]

Is it unsatisfying? Weavers in silksong are similar to each other - yes. But I chalk it up to Ari not wanting to animate 7 different weaver designs.

[zinc pivot]

That the harp yall was talking about

[muted lantern]

Ebrietas seemed to be working with the choir iirc, she wasn't prisoner, but that's for another forum to debate I suppose

[steep talon]

Bloodborne, right?

[dapper willow]

the bellways were made by the discarded bells of the citadel

[quick thorn]

here's the other half of that text from earlier

[muted lantern]

I mean that's unsatisfying to me yeah

[ancient dock]

Phantom unmasked?

[quick thorn]

would probably look just like lace

[muted lantern]

We can at least agree phantoms mask is artificial right?

[steep talon]

Of course

[ancient dock]

Don’t think so

[quick thorn]

has to be, silkborn don't need masks. Lace doesn't

[zinc pivot]

Definitely not part of her

[muted lantern]

Phantom of the Opera broken mask and all that

[shy dirge]

coincidance?

[ancient dock]

Hornet mask is is her skull

[zinc pivot]

Though it does keep her sane for the while

[dapper willow]

actually all the weaver statues are subtly differnt

[eternal gazelle]

Alright so I'm not tripping, that dialogue doesn't mention song as the mechanism that contains GMS

That simplifies things

She's being contained by silk

That's why the choir was sent to kidnap weaver descendents

[dire latch]

how are the bugs in pharloom sentient

also is the grandmother wever a higher being

[eternal gazelle]

That's why the emblem for the two prisons in the game is a cocoon

[dire latch]

thanks

[dapper willow]

bugs don't need higher beings to be sentient

[muted lantern]

I believe it just says that weavers used a song to contain GMS somewhere, the mask maker line is what confirms the weavers did it, but I think it could be a rune harp that references that song?

[zinc pivot]

The harp you told me wasn’t proof btw

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[muted lantern]

What were they trying to prove?

[dapper willow]

"never to silence"

[steep talon]

I mean yes and no. Right one is a backer character and design came from a backer. But Ari still draws them, and he might just repeat some motifs in the design every now and again. If you're asking is she from Coral Tower, then - no

[eternal gazelle]

How is this not proof that the choir was working toward the same goal as the weavers

This is exactly that

[zinc pivot]

That the choir was commanding the capture of weaverborns

[crisp basalt]

Hornet is a a Halfwyrm

[ancient dock]

Yeah it really depends on the type of bug, mantis where sentient on discipline alone

[quick thorn]

or, hear me out, it's a binding of two elements
one of silk (the cocoon)
one of song (the choir)
One could say it's a... SILK SONG

[muted lantern]

I don't think that's what they were saying, GMS wanted to capture the weavers because they helped the choir imprison her

[eternal gazelle]

Yeah it could easily be both

[dapper willow]

so are the people of karak and the ants
And the many travelers that visit hallownest

[quick thorn]

and no other wyrms become dreamers so that means nothing

[muted lantern]

Also pk was a pale fraud so who knows how much smarter he made common bugs

[zinc pivot]

Again, what suggest this?

[eternal gazelle]

No I'm saying the weaver descendents were kidnapped as an act of desperation to contain GMS, at least initially

[muted lantern]

Mask maker says the weavers lulled GMS to sleep

[muted lantern]

Oh, I'm not sure if that's the case

[ancient dock]

I think masks really only give certain bugs sentience, as seen with quirrel who forgets his memories until he reaches HK

[zinc pivot]

What suggest that the choir was the one commanding?

[muted lantern]

Weaver kidnapping seems personal on gms's part

[dapper willow]

i think it depends on the mask
And masks not only give sentience they also change who you are

[eternal gazelle]

This is maybe the case for Hornet but the haunting didn't really pick up until she got there

Lace is stated to have been the caretaker of the citadel during an era of silence, presumably after all the choir fucking died but couldn't be reanimated by Silk yet

[steep talon]

Choir was passed responsibility from weavers.
"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full."

[muted lantern]

The choir was passed down the task after the weavers left according to the rune harp, but a character in the slab with solid evidence for people believe to be romino implies he worked with the weavers for the betrayal

[zinc pivot]

Commanding the capture of weavers I mean

[quick thorn]

btw, i strongly believe skarrsinger isn't just a normal bug
(she's talking about the skarr)

[ancient dock]

Yeah Mask maker says they shape personality but I only think it possible for certain bugs that don’t have association with any tribe

[muted lantern]

Oh I don't know about that, that's someone else's theory

[dapper willow]

I think the haunting hit the citadel much earlier

[muted lantern]

Gilly mentioned!

[steep talon]

Power of the tribe, or whatever term the game uses to describe it

[quick thorn]

i have more dialogue im just trying to get it ingame first

[muted lantern]

So does gilly have four eyes or nostril holes on their mask

[zinc pivot]

Queen bugs in HK are depicted to have great power

[muted lantern]

I assume nostrils, but that's odd for this setting

[zinc pivot]

See Vespa for example, the Hive fell after she dies

[dapper willow]

well she is not a normal bug
She is a very epic bug wit amazing strenght
Same for the other dreamesrs as well

[eternal gazelle]

On this topic, whatever being a heart wielder actually means, Moss Druid of all people is on their way to becoming one

Which is fucking crazy

[steep talon]

Is it? Doesn't huntress also have them

[muted lantern]

Yeah queens are typically mothers of the entire colony in bee and ants cases, so the ants reverence for their queen probably helped stabilize them against the enforced reverence of gms

[eternal gazelle]

They reference Nyleth and Karmelita in their mossberry trip in act 1

[muted lantern]

Does she? Damn

[dapper willow]

it kinda is
BUt all bugs do breathes through their mouth so...

[ancient dock]

Huntress is not wearing a mask though

[edgy nebula]

probably the haunting being similar to the voice of their mother, kind of like how the hive worked when it got infected

[quick thorn]

that feels like a very different case to skarrsinger
She was queen of a hive, where skarrsinger is queen of a civilization
A hive withers with the queens death
But the land of far fields and hunters march SHOULD NOT wither with skarrsinger's death, if she's just like Vespa

[muted lantern]

She probably is actually, Styx is the same species and he definitely wears a mask

[zinc pivot]

The Hive IS a civilization

[dapper willow]

thats an insanely cool detail

[steep talon]

She was born with the mask, Styx doesn't have a mask naturally but wears one similar to huntress

[quick thorn]

the gilly dialogue is talking not just of the civilization, obviously

[steep talon]

There is melody dialogue of Styx without a mask in their cocoon

[ancient dock]

I think they look similar but we actually don’t know if they are the same species, also Styx wears multiple masks

[dapper willow]

The slab flyes have a way of making a new queen, so the death of queens is not necesarily the death of the hive

[muted lantern]

They look incredibly similar

Do we ever learn what Gilly's quest was

[edgy nebula]

researching the skarr

[quick thorn]

well i mean in the case of skarrsinger and vespa, it seems to be
and everyone is comparing skarrsinger to vespa as evidence why skarrsinger isn't a higher being of some form, which i disagree with

[steep talon]

My dad

[muted lantern]

?

[steep talon]

What, she mentions her dad wanted her to do this

[quick thorn]

I think skarrsinger is a bit like Unn, in that the land exists because of her, and her death spells it's end

[ancient dock]

They’re both just queens of their tribes they don’t fit the criteria of Higher being

[edgy nebula]

i wish we got more info on the mottled skarrs, theyre being hunted because of being mottled but we dont know why the skarr tribe doesnt like them being mottled, or why mottled skarr says "all for her.."

[muted lantern]

Guys, the skarr still held on because karmelita was still alive before we took her heart

[quick thorn]

except that, again, the land of far fields and hunters march withers with skarrsingers death
If you were right, it should not.

[zinc pivot]

Mimics how real life ants are territorial and don’t like foreign ants of other nest?

[muted lantern]

We talk to her before we go into her dream

Karmelita is alive during the game until we kill her in act 3

[zinc pivot]

karmelita was mentioned to unite the ants

[dapper willow]

she is not a higher being, and the ants are still doing relatively fine even when karmelita is not really in top condition anymore
The infected hive was supposedly doing much better than all of hallownest too, but the infection really thew a wrench into their plans

[ancient dock]

Hornet up straight says the land will grow more wilder after Skar dies to guily not wither

[raw pewter]

Did it? I thought after we took Karmelita's heart all the Skars are still technically alive

[edgy nebula]

thing is the mottled skarrs are presumably the same as the skarr tribe, since gurr's title is "the outcast" and you cant be outcast from a tribe you werent in in the first place

[muted lantern]

Are the mottled outcasts because racism?

[edgy nebula]

we do not know

[muted lantern]

Or do they just have like, a skin condition?

[edgy nebula]

shrug

[muted lantern]

Karmelita racism arc

[zinc pivot]

The Skarr tribe could be many ant tribe united under Karmelitas wing

[quick thorn]

ok i can't find gilly again

[muted lantern]

Gilly becomes one with the grass

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr and karmelita are on good terms

[quick thorn]

no she's meant to appear infront of skarrsinger once she dies

[ancient dock]

She in Karmelita room once you kill her and she has a interesting convo

[edgy nebula]

it's confirmed, karmelita is NOT racist

[quick thorn]

except she has several spots she appears in before that. which i can't find the 3rd, last one

[steep talon]

Well mottled somehow resist the haunting which is kinda funny

[muted lantern]

karmelita is woke!?!?!?!?!?! /J

[ancient dock]

Well it was like that for me

[steep talon]

So obviously other haunted ants will kill them cause their asses aren't resisting haunting

[ancient dock]

I found her near the lower level of far field before that though

[muted lantern]

Gilly gaming

[quick thorn]

Yeah, no, hornet doesn't

"The strength that sustained these caves... they will wither and fade"

[ancient dock]

Look at the end

[crisp basalt]

I wonder if the molted is maybe one of the two Royal Guards we fight in the memory

[raw pewter]

Did you read the last part? She literally said that they will regrow

[edgy nebula]

i imagine far field will one day be populated by a different ant tribe

[muted lantern]

Karmelita might be some kinda higher being yeah

Not a super strong one, but something of the sort

Definitely has an effect on the environment

Probably more unn like

[quick thorn]

yeah... regrow, sow seeds. Sounds a lot like skarrsinger's death will cause most of the land to wither

[muted lantern]

Like others said

Unn stays winning

[ancient dock]

Yeah but it will not die off like you suggested

[edgy nebula]

who do we think is the most powerful last successor

[crisp basalt]

Probably like with Nyleth, her death eventually led to Shellwood creation

[steep talon]

Moss druid

[quick thorn]

uhh, it will. Why would you sow seeds, if the plants already on the land haven't died off?

[crisp basalt]

Yep

[ancient dock]

It just means that the land will go through a period of desolation doesn’t mean it will completely die

[edgy nebula]

you misread, im talking about the last successors, not the strongest ss character

[quick thorn]

far fields and hunter's march are areas of wild plants. The wild plants die when skarrsinger does
Sounds a lot like skarrsinger acts a bit like Unn

[steep talon]

I read it as ants will die off. But someone in their place will make a new civilization, like those fuck ass giraffe horses

[crisp basalt]

It would make sense if the 4 rulers were all minor Higher beings

[quick thorn]

we already have precedent for lower higher beings anyway

[eternal gazelle]

And moss druid

[ancient dock]

Unn dreamed up the land, while Skarr just unified the tribes

[steep talon]

Oh my bad. I'm glad there is some moss druid appreciation, though

[edgy nebula]

im thinking khann, free control over coral, successfully held control over half of pharloom for atleast a little while, and his way of leadership worked

[crisp basalt]

I think at least Blasted sands were all coral caves before

[steep talon]

Control over crust*

[edgy nebula]

the snail shamans mention half of pharloom being under his command

[muted lantern]

Do we ever get through the locked gate to the right of karmelitas real body?

[quick thorn]

Crust King Khan can control the coral like his own body (higher being?)
Green Prince is at least of a higher status than Verdania's other residents, being the last one left (probably similar or lower level to someone like hornet)
And nyleth is just straight up a higher being

[steep talon]

Don't fuck with the guy that can control crust!!!!

[edgy nebula]

dont fuck with a guy involved with crust at all

[quick thorn]

nope, that's an area that we might see later

[muted lantern]

Slain many redditors with his strength

[steep talon]

Nope, but I have seen people suggest it's real world location of where we fought her

[ancient dock]

I don’t think any of the 4 are higher beings just powerful bugs

[quick thorn]

brother... higher beings ARE JUST POWERFUL BUGS

[edgy nebula]

they have some unique power, thats for sure

3 of their hearts can bring a flower that repels void into existance through hornet's memories

[quick thorn]

Unn is lower level than Pale beings.
Pale beings are more akin to proper gods, ala GMS, PK, WL, Rad

[raw pewter]

No?? Higher Beings are higher than bugs, something greater and are literally godlike

[steep talon]

Mr mushroom

[quick thorn]

There are 3 tiers
Bugs
Higher Beings
Pale Beings

[raw pewter]

My word, the Radiance isn't a Pale Being

[lethal burrow]

what about lace she is stated to be pale

[quick thorn]

mr mushroom is like... a tier on his own

[steep talon]

True...

[quick thorn]

child of a pale being. In the same way hornet is

[rocky thistle]

Someone get the godseekers on this

[lethal burrow]

so she's a pale being then

[quick thorn]

it isn't stated otherwise... and she is literally pale, just like the others. Just not named so

[quick thorn]

child of one. Pale children are probably lower on the divinity scale than the pale being's that created them

[raw pewter]

She isn't pale, her fur is yellowish white, and her light is literally yellow, shouldn't the light of a Pale Being be pure white?

[quick thorn]

she's white, doesn't mean her power has to be

[muted lantern]

How long do y'all think it will take before dlc?

[quick thorn]

a year

[edgy nebula]

few years

[steep talon]

I'll give it a year

[ancient dock]

Higher beings are the equivalent of Gods

[edgy nebula]

id say like, a few months until dlc is announced, like, a year and a half to 2 years till we get some dlc

[quartz salmon]

late 2026 or spring of 27!

[steep talon]

I'm forgetting my hk lore. Nightmare heart is a higher being right?

[quartz salmon]

yeah

[muted lantern]

Ye

[ancient dock]

Yes

[raw pewter]

Still, if she is a Pale Being wouldn't it be stated somewhere? Seems like a very important detail to miss out, especially when the White Lady is confirmed to be a Pale Being

[steep talon]

Ight

[quick thorn]

yeah... like greek gods
Ya got the titans like chronos (pale)
and ya got the gods like poseidon (higher beings)

[ancient dock]

Pale beings is a subset of Higher beings

[quick thorn]

literally nobody has seen the radiance's form though, other than the moth... which mentions her name and nothing else

isn't the entire point of HK that the radiance has been forgotten?

[quartz salmon]

i see it as something pale being divine, holy cause not only beings can be pale, but also materials or flowers

but higher beings are actual gods, and pale higher beings are a wombo combo

[ancient dock]

The only Pale beings are GMS, PK and WL

[steep talon]

Is Gorb a higher being?

[quick thorn]

power scaling is like void > pale > others
nobody said the others had to be a certain amount of powerful to count

[narrow sky]

didn't they build a statue of her?

[ancient dock]

Hornet and ghost and vessels fall into the category as well

[quartz salmon]

yes and someone saw that and they started dreaming about her again which brought her back

[quick thorn]

at the top of the crystal caverns yes... but that things old. Really old. There's nobody left in Hallownest that remembers the Radiance at the start of the infection. Why would there be anyone who does at the end?

[ancient dock]

No

[muted lantern]

Fucked up that the extremely power hungry conquering force that seeks to control everything around it through violently enforced faith is just a bunch of pale beings, I wonder if this was a commentary on something.

[steep talon]

That statue has pale ore too. Always weirded me out. Cause it isn't placed near her like an offering, it's placed inside the statue almost

[quick thorn]

yeah hornet states something about her kind (pale beings) in reference to the green prince and probably the pale stag, but could be GMS

[steep talon]

Damn, not a believer...

[muted lantern]

I was making a joke about white people

[quick thorn]

oh, lol. I mean, britain

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah, because hes the highest being

[ancient dock]

Got me their

[steep talon]

True!!!

[raw pewter]

Gorb ascend to higher states than higher beings themselves

[cobalt coyote]

I was reading that

[ancient dock]

Gorb is a lizard

[muted lantern]

Where did it go I was reading that!

[raw pewter]

Yeah come on man, we were reading that

[steep talon]

I turned on my night light to read that!!

[raw pewter]

Feels like when someone just yank a book off of your hands

[cobalt coyote]

13% something then it dissapeared

[lethal burrow]

WELL

hollow knight started development in 2014 and released in 2017.
there are 36 months in three years.
the first DLC was six months after release

6 is 13.67% of 36

Silksong took seven years to make, if we assume the relative scale and development time compared to the base game is the same, then the first DLC for silk song will release 13 and a half months after silksong released, as 13.44 months is 16% of seven years.

[muted lantern]

Can't just blueball me with a ping man

[cobalt coyote]

Thank you.

[muted lantern]

Lol

[steep talon]

So a little over a year, gotcha

[ancient dock]

Late 2026

[muted lantern]

Math checks out

I think, I didn't check

[raw pewter]

I feel like it's gonna be longer because the DLC probably gonna be much bigger than Hollow Knight's DLC

[lethal burrow]

i'm betting November 14th

[cobalt coyote]

Id pay for the dlcs if they were paid

[muted lantern]

Debating writing extensive world building fanfic before or after dlc, it would suck to be later contradicted by canon

[lethal burrow]

that's why I specified relative scale.

as in, the DLC will be the same proportional size compared to the size of both games

[steep talon]

I doubt it. Content packs with like one or two bosses and some overhauls sounds reasonable direction to me

[ancient dock]

Also all Higher beings have a white screen card before their boss fights

[raw pewter]

November 14th 2024? Nice just about tomorrow

[lethal burrow]

no 2026

also it's 2025 right now

[steep talon]

That's the best part, they will be free!!!(probably)

[cobalt coyote]

Wait really?

[raw pewter]

Really??? Wow I didn't know that, ok so the DLC releases tomorrow, gotcha

[muted lantern]

They are actually working on a lace dlc, it will be released in 30 years as it's own full game for 2 cents

[cobalt coyote]

I already bought silksong for both pc and switch

Just entering act 3 on switch

[ancient dock]

A lot of time for steel soul runs

[muted lantern]

HK dlc was free so presumably ss will be free dlc too

[lethal burrow]

and sharpe will be cut again

[steep talon]

Hollow knight Lacestrings. She is a called the white knight in game

[cobalt coyote]

Just saying i would be willing to pay for them

[narrow sky]

little silk

[lethal burrow]

yeah but I don't think they're willing to charge considering they have infinite money

[muted lantern]

Steel assassin Sharpe found resurrected in Atlanta, then found shot dead in miami, again

[ancient dock]

They definitely need to make city of iron dlc

[lethal burrow]

ah yes, "iron"

[cobalt coyote]

Oh also why is there Like one of the coral warriors alive left but Grey?

[muted lantern]

Silksong scholar of the first sin

[lethal burrow]

He's the watcher of the edge

[narrow sky]

they old

[muted lantern]

Hes old, the other ones are in a memory of the past, this one is the present

[steep talon]

Built different

[lethal burrow]

I think they're asking why the ones in the tower are dead, but this one lives and is also gray

[narrow sky]

he watches people edge?

[lethal burrow]

[muted lantern]

Don't kinkshame him

[ancient dock]

Use the cut content as DLC

[muted lantern]

The dlc is 8 consecutive fights with steel assassin sharpe

[raw pewter]

As long as they consent to him watching, it's a ok

[cobalt coyote]

Just wanted some needolin dialogue on low Hp and died jn seconds

[lethal burrow]

at each fight has its own cut scene, but all the cut scenes are removed and not actually put in the game

[ancient dock]

Get a Seth sequel with the fleas after

[lethal burrow]

I want one for second sentinel

[muted lantern]

They also cut steel assassin Sharpe the dlc is 8 consecutive arenas with boss themes that cut off abrubtly and the next room opens

[cobalt coyote]

Oh also can loddie be seen anywhere in act 3? (The ladybug) I Hope he didnt die

[raw pewter]

I also want one for Second Sentinel

Second Sentinel my beloved

[muted lantern]

I think they died

[lethal burrow]

The narrator "he died"

[lethal burrow]

Steel Sentinel believers never die

[muted lantern]

When are we dropping third sentinel

[cobalt coyote]

He already dropped

Dead

[muted lantern]

Dropped dead

[raw pewter]

Next game title, Hollow Knight: Heart of Cog
Starring Second Sentinel as the protagonist

[narrow sky]

i think they ded

[muted lantern]

Damn beat me to it

[lethal burrow]

no, it's already called steel Sentinel and it's about the city of steel and the second Sentinel

[muted lantern]

The dlc is cooking mama but you play as lugioli

[raw pewter]

First Sinner, Second Sentinel, Third Vessel, Fourth Chorus

[lethal burrow]

12th architect

Last judge

[muted lantern]

When we getting all four choruses at once

[raw pewter]

In the DLC we're gonna get a Third ___

[lethal burrow]

Calm down now we don't even have all four hands at once

[raw pewter]

I heard someone beat Silksong with only one hand, so it should be easy for them

[muted lantern]

Every dlc Shakra crouches slightly lower to speak to hornet until she clips into the ground and causes a singularity ending the series

[muted lantern]

Dont say it don't say it don't say it

[raw pewter]

Say it

Speak your mind

[ebon silo]

Remember when the snail shamans die when you wake up after the red memory right? No I'm pretty sure they went naked and ran away

[muted lantern]

They would do that

Spread across the world to form their own separate nudist colonies

[crisp basalt]

Actually yeah what happened to snails?

I assumed they just died

[fallow spindle]

pale king and hallownest lore: actively tries to get rid of the growing infection caused from the radiance and tries to seal it in a vessel, ultimately failing due to his love for the pure vessel.

gms and pharloom lore:

not because there isnt any its just because gms is just sleeping lol

[hushed viper]

I just realised Bell Beast is bony, strong, white and likes to burrow/dig, not to mention blank empty eye (sockets?)

You know what other creature share this trait?
Groms (and gromlings) (the guys in wormways)

So bell beast might be an elder growner up ver of them, or a grom that was captured, trained, and fed by the citadel (like the big moss bugs and coral guys)

[edgy nebula]

honestly maybe

the only thing is that bell beast doesnt have sharp teeth

and that bell beast has many eyes

[crisp basalt]

It could been years of evolution

[fallow spindle]

domesticated worm

[vale radish]

||how my gambling guy died?||

[quartz salmon]

got bored

[zinc pivot]

exhaustion
he died if you win anyways

[vale radish]

I see that's sad

[tacit kettle]

bell beast’s children look completely different from the enemies in wormways

[zinc pivot]

or maybe bell beast is the product of breeding

[tacit kettle]

maybe related to the enemies in the wormways, but i doubt they’re of the same species

[zinc pivot]

after all, bellway seems to have existed for long

[whole holly]

Guys what are act 2 content I shouldn’t miss

Should I get every upgrade before fighting GMS?

[edgy nebula]

paying your respects to mottled skarr after he dies

[whole holly]

I have 8 masks

[whole holly]

I did do that

[edgy nebula]

are you doing 100%?

[manic pewter]

I think you might have more luck asking about this in #sk-help and #sk-help-2 but up to you

[whole holly]

I meant second sentinel Shakra and garmond content

[edgy nebula]

ah, have you fought shakra and garmond yet? aswell as second sentinel

[whole holly]

Well idk , I am just trying to get every upgrade and every map

[scenic stirrup]

What is hornet wearing is it a dress or a poncho

[edgy nebula]

cloak

[brisk thunder]

Hunter's cloak.....

[tacit kettle]

I think it’s a tutu actually

[hushed viper]

cant believe the flies took her tutu
or "You're taking too too"

[tacit kettle]

crackpot theory
the reason why the fleas are in so many stupid spots, like jailed in the slab, attacked by citadel enemies or stuffed inside of shells is because they’re immune to the haunting

so they essentially get the hornet treatment

[naive turtle]

Cool

[spare pendant]

wouldn't this be because of the strings that she's using to control belheart

also widow isn't even intended to be needolined so this is dubious canon i feel

posting this to the wiki discord anyway though

[trim lark]

i guess its possible its just leftovers from when the gods glory thing was still in the game, where you could needolin bosses which you wouldnt be able to in base game

[spare pendant]

Or it's intended for when that gets added

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure it's because you arent supposed to needolin the boss that you kill to get needolin

[elfin minnow]

Does the second sentinel have a silkfly in them

[fallow locust]

What is the ||fourth chorus|| and why does it randomly pop up when you get the floating upgrade

[tacit kettle]

it’s a mech created by the citadel and i presume it pops up because it becomes alert to your presence as a weaver

[craggy smelt]

citadel war machine that was disabled by the Seamstress

[edgy nebula]

probably woke up randomly or is reacting to the cloak seamstress gave you

[craggy smelt]

seamstress set you up

gave you a seamstress cloak to make you into a decoy

[fallow locust]

So the seamstress was lying and is with the citadel?

[edgy nebula]

no, he's making a joke, i think

[maiden meteor]

I find it interesting that in early trailers Chorus was controlled by Silk

[manic pewter]

Pretty sure is still controlled by silk just isnt shown

like if you look at the death animation

[spare pendant]

fourth chorus could have been after seamstress

[spare pendant]

it is animated by silk flies

[maiden meteor]

Nah I mean like, you could see silks strings puppeteering it

[gusty vapor]

If we talking silk details btw

Only one of the conchflies was silk haunted for the boss fight

Iirc only them and trobbio are string free

[spare pendant]

that's an interesting observation but it's not fully correct, they both give string particles when hit

[gusty vapor]

So does trobbio tho

[spare pendant]

shakra, garmond, pinstress, etc

[spare pendant]

what? really?

[gusty vapor]

Trobbio has no string

He sings cuz he's extra lol

For both fights too

[spare pendant]

i know but i thought he didn't give silk particles

[gusty vapor]

He doesnt have silk particles

Im ngl I forgot abt pinstress tho

She has legit lore as to why

[violet orchid]

why do the weavers look so different in silksong

[elfin niche]

Do they?

They look pretty similar to the HK design, other than Herrah.

I think the real question is "why does Herrah not look like the other Weavers?" and the answer to that is probably "retcon".

[violet orchid]

they really do

[violet orchid]

herrah isn’t a weaver

[elfin niche]

Have you, uh, finished Silksong?

[violet orchid]

the weavers are random spiders that GMS forcefully evolved into a higher species

and she called them her “children”

[elfin niche]

Yes, and Herrah is one of them.

[violet orchid]

oh really??

damn i did not see that

[elfin niche]

Yeah. Hornet is called Weaver in half part.

Also like large parts of Act 3 are predicated on it.

[violet orchid]

well that’s probably just because she’s a sentient bug that can use silk in the same way weavers can

herrah was not a weaver im pretty sure

[ebon silo]

she is full weaver but probably retconned? or the opposite

[steep talon]

Why was Hornet able to use silk in the first game then?

[violet orchid]

well because herrah could use silk too because

ok nvm

[steep talon]

Which is weavers ability

[spare pendant]

she is

[violet orchid]

ive searched it and she is a weaver

[steep talon]

It is true though, she is never reffered to as weaver in hk

Herrah that is

[violet orchid]

and in the ending where she claims GMS power, it’s called “weaver queen”

so hornet basically becomes the weaver queen

[steep talon]

Yee

[dapper willow]

I don't think we see anyone use silk in the first game aside from weavers and hornet...

[violet orchid]

why didn’t GMS try to capture her and send her back to pharloom tho??

[steep talon]

That's also true and little hunters, those infected weavers

[violet orchid]

i mean she’s literally the queen of the weavers

[spare pendant]

herrah is dead?

[violet orchid]

well yea

[zinc pivot]

Because the haunting is like, a hot minute since weavers disappearance from Hallownest

[violet orchid]

but before that

[steep talon]

And GMS was sleeping for a long time

[violet orchid]

oh yea

true

also what happened to the weaver that was still in hallownest??

[zinc pivot]

Well, you saw their corpse

[spare pendant]

no clue whatsoever

[violet orchid]

is that just first sinner or widow? it looks really different

[spare pendant]

first sinner and widow would be nowhere near hallownest lol

[violet orchid]

like a lot smaller… different clothes…

[zinc pivot]

Who are you talking about?

[steep talon]

Basic timeline is weavers were created, built citadel or parts of it. Decided to lull GMS to sleep. Passed the task of keeping her asleep to basic bugs. Went to die and hoped that someone else comes to kill gms for good

[spare pendant]

that's either an unnamed weaver or a weaverling

[spare pendant]

the weaver we see in weavers den

[violet orchid]

the weaver that the hollow knight sees in deepnest

[spare pendant]

the citadel was built to lull her asleep

[violet orchid]

it runs away before it can interact…

[dapper willow]

weavers are soo goofy with those bulbous head of theirs though
It only works for first sinner kinda
I guess

[zinc pivot]

Oh that’s just the average weaver

[violet orchid]

my only question was… why didn’t radiance kill her?

[zinc pivot]

May as well use she/her because no male weavers exist

[steep talon]

Yeah, that's true. But not all of the citadel right?

[elfin niche]

They're just masks.

[violet orchid]

true

[spare pendant]

some of it was built later yeah

[dapper willow]

I know but still

[violet orchid]

because first sinner is really tall so the proportions look normal

[zinc pivot]

Weavers are quite resilient
That’s why herrah was chosen as a dreamer in the first place

[ebon silo]

im assuming the infection didnt got to her

just yet.

[violet orchid]

why this one… random weaver tho?

[zinc pivot]

Interesting that Radiance didn’t reanimate the weavers corpse in the first place

[violet orchid]

and we supposedly don’t even see it in pharloom?

[zinc pivot]

We dunno if that particular weaver was leaving for Pharloom or not

[steep talon]

Does radiance reanimate dead bugs? Spirit glave would be pretty lively then

I thought she just infected alive ones and then they keep on going forever

[zinc pivot]

The spirit glade ones seems…decomposed

[violet orchid]

well it was stated in silksong that most weavers left pharloom after some time, there is absolutely no reason to why they would go back to pharloom voluntarily

[spare pendant]

infection can reanimate corpses but spirits glade is completely sealed off from the infection and likely under radiance's implicit protection

[violet orchid]

because… GMS would’ve awoken

[steep talon]

Damn she should have reanimated those big bugs, like that big one in queens garden, lol

[zinc pivot]

Well, if anything maybe they thought the haunting hadnt taken place
And under silks thrall is way better than having a moth invade your mind

[violet orchid]

because of the one random moth lol
also there are still infected guys underground in resting grounds

[spare pendant]

spirits glade was protected by the moth clan

[steep talon]

Oh yeah, underground resting ground corpses forgot about those

[zinc pivot]

Oh yes those mummies

[spare pendant]

and resting grounds underground is connected to several areas

[violet orchid]

then who was that one weaver? is it just widow?

[zinc pivot]

No idea, sadly

[violet orchid]

would make sense..

[ebon silo]

my theory is that some of the weavers didnt know why they trapped GMS or why they left pharloom because maybe some just followed because the leader did so when deepnest was getting infected im assumign these weavers who did not know went back to pharloom because they thought it was way safer

[steep talon]

The one in HK? might be the one that ran away, but we just don't know

[zinc pivot]

Widow is a Silk Fanatic, she wouldn’t run from the first place

[ebon silo]

atleast he could still be alive

[violet orchid]

damn i really thought team cherry would leave an explanation, could still be dlc tho, but im shocked they would leave it for so long, especially for a game that has been 7 years in the making

[steep talon]

Male weaver!?!?!

[spare pendant]

all weavers are female

[violet orchid]

i could believe this

[zinc pivot]

I support weaver trans

[steep talon]

True...

[zinc pivot]

I wonder why weaver didn’t come up with cloning tech or sth

[violet orchid]

huh..?

[zinc pivot]

tbh theres no clone in hollow knight either so aint valid

[ebon silo]

all weavers are female my default pronoun to everyone is he because im just lazy asf

[violet orchid]

also in one of the weavenests, there’s a map of different kingdoms they would’ve fled to

[steep talon]

Lol, I getcha

[violet orchid]

could be important, maybe for dlc

[spare pendant]

we're likely getting city of steel dlc i think

[steep talon]

Yeah, I also think so

[zinc pivot]

Hope we do
And maybe get a cameo of Pure Vessel

[violet orchid]

the… wha

city of steel?

[spare pendant]

location mentioned in the cradle

[ebon silo]

city of steel its found in the cradle

[steep talon]

Or Sharpe just gets it in the third fucking game lmao

[zinc pivot]

The steels would be interested in a Vessel like PV

[spare pendant]

never killing myself !!

[ebon silo]

yknow the pale kings creation are entirely from void right? kingsmould etc with a dabble of focus and soul in it

[violet orchid]

where is it mentioned? is it where the steel guys live? it could be probable considering steel soul sharpe was cut from the game

[spare pendant]

it's mentioned in a lore tablet

[zinc pivot]

But vessels are the shit
Product of 2 divine beings and a primordial force

[ebon silo]

noone knows yet but the name suggest

[violet orchid]

is it in act 3 or

[ebon silo]

the vessels we know of are children

[zinc pivot]

Act 2, in act 3 that room is inaccessible

[steep talon]

Before fight with GMS there is a breakable wall that leads to bunch of cages with notes on them, talking about the weavers they caught. How much of weaver they are as in half weaver or quarter and where they were caught

[ebon silo]

imagine having a billion of vessels all fully grown and trained equivalent of the PV pale king wouldve been unstoppable

[violet orchid]

damn
guess i can’t see it then

[spare pendant]

not pv

[violet orchid]

ohh interesting

[zinc pivot]

PK should’ve put more faith in his children surviving the abyss

[violet orchid]

what other kingdoms does it mention?

[zinc pivot]

Blackbarren, Sandsea Wastes

[crystal tusk]

I supposed the areas they mention in the cradle are outside of pharloom, I mean, to be fair, we could maybe see a corpse and use the needolin to enter it's memories

[steep talon]

Sandsea waste, though this is prolly not a kingdom

[spare pendant]

we see the sandsea wastes

[ebon silo]

more so just a region

[steep talon]

See it?

[violet orchid]

ohh that sounds similar to the blackwyrm

[spare pendant]

in blasted steps and nameless village

[steep talon]

Oh really? That's called sandsea? I thought it was just surface or whatever

[violet orchid]

sandsea wastes just sounds a lot like sands of karak, even though that isn’t a kingdom

[spare pendant]

it's not named in game but it fits the name

[zinc pivot]

It’s a theory, just a theory

[spare pendant]

we see a literal sea of sand, at least the edge

[crystal tusk]

it could maybe also reffer to the pharloom bay cut area

[spare pendant]

and we know the wastes are the areas between kingdoms

[steep talon]

So, those aren't sandsea waste is what you're saying?

[spare pendant]

sandsea wastes are at the edge

[zinc pivot]

It is saying that it could be sandsea wastes

[violet orchid]

pharloom bay?
there’s only 2 cut areas i know of

[steep talon]

Hey at least it's coming back, thank fucking god I need my poop village

[violet orchid]

what… can someone explain

[zinc pivot]

The first trailer show an area that looks like made of poop
With poop shaped npc and housing

[steep talon]

I think some dialogue connected to bay in beta branch was altered. Which might mean we get it in future

[crystal tusk]

this area, that's evidently not greymoor or sands of karak/ colorful coral area

[violet orchid]

oh yeah that place

[steep talon]

Although I haven't fact checked this. I just want my poop village man

[crystal tusk]

we all need this poop village

[violet orchid]

that area was supposed to be in between purified ducts and bilewater

[steep talon]

Yes

[violet orchid]

because… it makes sense for act 1 to have 2 villages, and act 2 to have equally, 2 villages

and act 2 is just around the citadel basically

and the citadel itself ofc

was that area actually confirmed to be coming back?

[dapper willow]

barnacle bay

[violet orchid]

i know the name of it..

[steep talon]

No, just speculation

[dapper willow]

Its pharloom bay in the files

[violet orchid]

oh ok

[violet orchid]

the files?? it’s in the files??

[steep talon]

Yes, the map is in the files and it's called pharloom bay

[dapper willow]

The map art is in the files and we saw its text updated in a patch recently

[violet orchid]

it was only in the trailer as far as i know

[violet orchid]

oh it was updated?

[dapper willow]

Just some text related to pharloom bay

[violet orchid]

so this probably means it’s coming back

[dapper willow]

yes

[steep talon]

Shmaybeeee

[dapper willow]

wonder how the dev build looks like

[steep talon]

It looks like shit obviously. As it should

[violet orchid]

still don’t get why they didn’t just add it in along with the full version of coral forest

because coral tower is bad and i hate it

[fervent light]

toxic

[violet orchid]

they had 7 years to add this stuff

[steep talon]

Lmao. You know what if coral forest was anything like putrified ducts gameplay wise, I'm good

[violet orchid]

why would it be?

[crystal tusk]

I'd prefered it to be path of pain jr instead of colliseum of fools jr.

[steep talon]

Some stuff is cut for a good reason is all I want to point out

[violet orchid]

SAME

except the surface climb is (kind of) path of pain jr.

[crystal tusk]

true, but I mean, I preffered a plataforming section with few enemies instead of battle after battle and only being able to skip all of that in the end X,D

[violet orchid]

same, i despise coral tower

we missed out on an amazing area too

and they have absolutely no reason to add it back into the game

[crystal tusk]

to be fair playing ||lost verdania|| before all of the other memories made them all look even worse

[maiden meteor]

You can skip Widow by doing taunt

WIDOW DIALOGUE

[spare pendant]

i love coral tower

[maiden meteor]

i missed a word

[spare pendant]

i loved every memory honestly

[crystal tusk]

yes, I discovered it by accident on my second playthrough, I think it's the only battle you can do that unfortunately, bc is very cool.

in other battles the taunt just starts it like if you'd pressed up/down

[violet orchid]

we could’ve had TWO memory areas
would’ve been so cool
considering the.. lands of karak.. whatever you want to call the memory version of it, would’ve had 2 full variants of the area
that would’ve been so much content

[zinc pivot]

to be honest, there are two things i could list about how bad it would be:
karak is the first one to introduce timed platform section, having it AND verdania sharing the same gimmick in memory world is sorta unoriginal
realistically, the best area for a prime karak setting could only be the coral tower, which should be White Palace scale of exploration to be interesting. That takes work to make it not boring (as we see what became of Putrefied Ducts)

[dapper willow]

do you guys think they will ever add like diving into water as ability

[zinc pivot]

as much as i advocate for prime karak, it could be a problem in of itself

[violet orchid]

what about coral forest in the trailer? it looked finished..

[crystal tusk]

I agree

[zinc pivot]

it got scrapped due to not fitting with the general theme of pharloom

[violet orchid]

did team cherry say this.. also how?

[zinc pivot]

a dilapidated land having wrecked others in its own rise

[crystal tusk]

yeah I think most of the removed things were removed due not fitting with the story they wanted to tell.

[zinc pivot]

yeah just recently too

[violet orchid]

verdania doesn’t fit the theme either i guess
but that still exists

[violet orchid]

source..?

[zinc pivot]

Real verdania is in ruins too

[violet orchid]

no i mean the memory version

[spare pendant]

coral tower still exists as a memory

[violet orchid]

why couldn’t the memory version of karak exist too

[spare pendant]

it might, in the future

[violet orchid]

yeah well
it could’ve been more than just coral tower

[zinc pivot]

it might, but again my opinion regarding it is as above

it needs real work to be good and unique from verdania

[violet orchid]

also where’s the source for what they said about coral forest?

[zinc pivot]

During the ACMI

[dapper willow]

I can see coral tower parkour being a thing in dlc
The real world version

[zinc pivot]

Shame that you cant bench in dreams

and structures never have a map

[violet orchid]

they could implement it

would make verdania much more enjoyable

i haven’t even finished verdania yet..
because i know it’s the last area in the game.. and i don’t want it to be over

[zinc pivot]

the last time dream world was benchable, it was inside godhome

[mint furnace]

If you sit on a dream bench too long you enter a super dream

[zinc pivot]

Inception in my bug game

what the helly

[violet orchid]

you end up in silksong’s godhome

[mint furnace]

I do wish we got verdanias for every one of the dream sections

I’d sacrifice another year for that

[zinc pivot]

what exactly would it be for shellwood

[spare pendant]

it only works for coral tower

[zinc pivot]

and skaars trbe since we get to see a fair bit of their area spanning through out farfields

[spare pendant]

that would just be hunters march 2

[zinc pivot]

my point exactly

[spare pendant]

doesn't make sense

[mint furnace]

Ant city

Shellwood has a past, but that one would have to be more inventive

Fits less with the “ages of the past” because shellwood just sort of is always there

[sullen glacier]

are the snail shamans void? Hornet confronts them and she says smth about them being 'with the void'

[spare pendant]

no

definitively not void

[timid musk]

no they just reeaally like the void

[spare pendant]

they produce soul

[sullen glacier]

ohh ok

so they just used hornet to bring the void up?

[spare pendant]

yeah

[sullen glacier]

based

[hushed viper]

is there more to

wait no wtrong chat

[proud swan]

Hey everybody

[zinc pivot]

She said that they bound the snare trap to the void

So yeah they used hornet to enact their plan to trap gms in the void abyss

[proud swan]

So the other day someone said rune rage and pure vessel attacks were similar and I went to check it out. Not sure if this is of any significance to anyone. But this makes me think about the term "rune" when used in silksong context. Does it mean using words, like actual runes?

Runes seem like a theme in silksong

[obsidian quail]

no idea

[proud swan]

I also find it interesting that the "wingmould" enemy is said to be made with a "rune etched shell"

[obsidian quail]

but it’s possible weavers shared that technique since it uses soul

[proud swan]

Also: snare setter places a rune on the ground, and rune harp is literally just writing

[proud swan]

Yeah both def can have soul particles, but it's not clear to me whether silk skills always use soul somehow

[obsidian quail]

they should because Weaver silk is Soul in the form of Silk

kinda just the way it’s expressed for them

[molten parcel]

So they are weaving soul into silk?

[edgy barn]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

yes

[molten parcel]

You know

On ancient basin HK we SEE something similar to silk on the stag station

[proud swan]

But wait whata do we have as confirmation that silk is a manifestation of soul?

[edgy barn]

Those same spools can be found in the PK's workshops, distant village station, and the Weaver's Den

[obsidian quail]

that’s what is significant about Hornet and Weavers

they generate soul silk

naturally i don’t think it’s on purpose

[edgy barn]

Seamstress dialogue.

Just a moment, dear, before you scurry off!
I'm loath to spoil the surprise, but curiosity begs me to ask. Do you know why they pursue you? Those Citadel bugs?
Hornet: No certainty, but I've a strong suspicion...
They hunt me for my nature. For the Silk produced within my shell.
Ahh ha! Truth, no doubt! In Pharloom, yours is a rare skill, prized beyond measure, to channel one's soul within a thread. Soul and Silk inseparably linked.
It is a skill almost lost from Pharloom. Those old Weavers shared it, but they're long dead now.
Hornet: There is another alive in this kingdom that shares my nature, or some part of it. I've seen Silk similar to my own. It snares the shells of those upon the roads.
I've seen it wrap them, possess them whole. There is will within that thread, one that seems to come from somewhere above us. The Citadel...
Hmmmm... Good, sharp sight you've got. That Citadel... All roads towards and all answers waiting, and a long climb up there m'dear.
Now! It's time you get going! Your style and your Silk sure are fine, but stay too long and you'll only be trouble for me!

[proud swan]

Beautiful. Thanks

[edgy nebula]

groal is honestly a pretty scary tribe leader

that poor snail shaman

[manic pewter]

Yeah being able to control soul alone is crazy

[young harbor]

Soul Master sacrificing thousands vs Groal's single snail shaman

[molten parcel]

Both are bad

[young harbor]

Fr fr

[edgy barn]

There are corpses stored in sacks hanging across bilewater. I assume those were drained for Soul.

[molten parcel]

Aaaa

Pre-soul Groal

[edgy nebula]

groal the medioce

[molten parcel]

Is groal a frog?

[edgy nebula]

makes sense, i still think he'd have the head bones though

[obsidian quail]

that’s also why the void takes over the silk around pharloom because it’s soul

[edgy nebula]

bug, but looks like a frog

[young harbor]

Yeah that would definitely make sense

[molten parcel]

Void isnt evilll

It was GMS disturbing it

[obsidian quail]

who’s slandering Void while i’m in chat?

[molten parcel]

The Pharloom abyss was ALWAYS there, it was chill until shamans opened a portal to cradle

[young harbor]

Actually on the topic of what are and aren't bugs, is the Fayforn a bird or a bug because I assume bug but it's like so extremely birdlike

[obsidian quail]

who are u talking to sam

[edgy nebula]

bug

[molten parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

[edgy nebula]

when it roars it shows it's belly and it has an exoskeleton

[mint furnace]

Void is not something that should even be classified as such things

It is a force, not a being

[proud swan]

Nah it aint chill

[mint furnace]

PK tried to make it one (or thousands rather)

[obsidian quail]

Void is usually a chill guy

[molten parcel]

Also lifeblood, lifeblood is also chill

Its all jonis fault

[young harbor]

IT IS???

[mint furnace]

Okay this one I agree with less

[molten parcel]

Lifeblood literally just started spreading because of JONI

[young harbor]

After silksong I'm genuinely so afraid of lifeblood WAIT REALLY

[mint furnace]

This is like calling Covid 19 chill for “not understanding what it’s doing”

[molten parcel]

It just gets into stuff it doesnt control them fully

[mint furnace]

Void is more like gravity, or a universal concept or law, but lifeblood is a plague

It is an infectious virus

[molten parcel]

The wormways worms already were hostile and zango doesnt Even attack he just getting the lifeblood out of his body and he is insane for isolation

[young harbor]

No I actually am so curious is Joni really the reason why it spread? I feel like my perception of lifeblood really flipped on its head after wormways

Oh huh

[edgy barn]

The adult worms weren't hostile, just passing by

[molten parcel]

Alchemist doesnt Even attack us when possesed by lifeblood

[mint furnace]

Are you sure about that

[edgy nebula]

If mottled skarr didn't get neg diffed by the skarr stalkers he couldve soloed lost lace ngl

[mint furnace]

You do know his entire thing is he’s a coward right

If you attack near him he runs away

[young harbor]

Does make me wonder if that was even him talking to Hornet in the end

[edgy nebula]

he's a single ant, of course he is, he has no one to run back to

[molten parcel]

Lifeblood isnt Dangerous
ITS Harmful, it can be used but it has consequences.
Again, lifeblood didnt Even want to spread, it was Joni and Alchemist fault for disturbing the lifeblood

[mint furnace]

Doubt it

[edgy nebula]

we dont even have a single line of real dialogue from him that isnt needolin dialogue

[mint furnace]

Lifeblood is the radiance goo beta

[edgy barn]

He talks about strength faded in his needolin dialogue. It could about Karmelita but it could also be reffering to himself.

[young harbor]

I gotta look more into Joni now

[mint furnace]

Once you get taken you are no longer you

[molten parcel]

Notice how lifeblood only was dangerous when people used it to Mess with it

[mint furnace]

I’d assume that just means the ant king as a whole

[manic pewter]

What do we know about the watcher at the edge apart from journal?

[proud swan]

you can hardly say the void is "good" or "bad" but as two of its main properties are being chaotic and consuming living beings I wouldnt say the void is chill. Just like you know, wildfire isnt chill. Or mind controlling fungi. You get the gist

[mint furnace]

He watches the edge

[edgy nebula]

i don't doubt either, his hand is always on his stomach in the animations

[molten parcel]

Joni And Alchemist caused allthis

[edgy nebula]

He was appointed by crust king khann to watch at the edge and wait for new life

What that means?

[mint furnace]

He’s a very one sentence character

I think he literally is just on guard duty

[young harbor]

Also it's interesting to me Hornet kinda writes off the idea that lifeblood and the infection are similar after drawing the connection cuz it felt like she'd be more concerned than that, at least I assumed anyway

[weary pecan]

Is there any sort of document or something compiling all the cut content of the game?

[edgy nebula]

Most crust characters are tbf

[mint furnace]

Utter denial

[molten parcel]

On Hk its implied Joni caused the lifeblood to spread across hallownest and be a threat

[mint furnace]

Surprisingly not a huge amount

[edgy barn]

They have somewhat similar events but she knows the inner workings are very different.

[mint furnace]

Bell parkour, poop hermit crabs (o7) steel guys, and the coral area being real

[weary pecan]

I know about the secret cutscene and some sort of poop area

[mint furnace]

That’s about it I think

[proud swan]

He mostly confirms that CCK waited water to be strong again

[mint furnace]

Also a cut ending we know nothing about it

[young harbor]

Also the lifeblood stuff in silksong kinda made me realise the Abyss creature was definitely infected with lifeblood I feel like

[proud swan]

Wut

[molten parcel]

Theres rlly no one behind Lifeblood infection for what we know, not a god or sum

[edgy barn]

Is this advertisement.

is that even allowed

[narrow sky]

there is the abyss thing

[edgy nebula]

$1 pizza does sound good though

[young harbor]

I'd honestly really love more on lifeblood in future cuz it seems like it's got crazy potential to learn more about

[molten parcel]

Lifeblood is neutral believer forever

[manic pewter]

Yeah in my mind its kinda like a fungus

[edgy nebula]

I want khann and steel faction expansion

[manic pewter]

it isnt inherently good or bad, it just is

[molten parcel]

Steel Faction???

Steel soul Jinn mentioned?

[edgy nebula]

Steel beings, city of steel, etc

[young harbor]

I don't think it's EVIL but I think there's something more to it with its appearance in Godhome and all, with the abyss creature being there too

[proud swan]

There could be. It coulda been created by a higher beings dream just like lots of hk stuff

[manic pewter]

One of the steel faction guys was a backer character right? so we should be getting it

[edgy nebula]

All we got from ss was the city of steel and “Compression”

[molten parcel]

Is steel soul the canon mode?

[spare pendant]

she doesn't fully write it off she just says it might be a coincidence

[proud swan]

Yea. The one with the nose

[young harbor]

Yeah good point there

[proud swan]

Sharpe

[spare pendant]

also im working on the lifeblood wiki page i love seeing lifeblood discourse so much :3

[molten parcel]

Steel soul contains the steel guys, could it be canon mode since its possible canonically we never die

[obsidian quail]

compression is pretty insane though like u could make a game around that

i think that’s the scariest thing in HK world

[edgy nebula]

I hate it when i get compressed

[young harbor]

So curious about those masters they're definitely setting up for something there, I love that there's still so much we don't know

[molten parcel]

I hope we get Grimm Troupe dlc

[obsidian quail]

the Steel City eats Higher Beings for lunch

not literally but they’re out there no diffing Higher Beings

[edgy barn]

TC can come up with new concepts and characters I'm pretty sure.

[obsidian quail]

for fun

[proud swan]

What is crazy to me is that steel soul jinn says TK is maybe different "like the masters". God I wanna know who the masters are

[young harbor]

Elaborating on whatever was going down in wisp thicket at least, although idk if we'd see the troupe themselves again

[edgy nebula]

I highly doubt wisp thicket is grimm related

Mainly the wisps not being pink

[spare pendant]

the steelhearts

[obsidian quail]

do you guys see what these nutcase Steel bugs get up to? they’re terrifying

[edgy nebula]

Hopefully not void cause void is lame

[edgy barn]

Is not lol. People just see color red and something mildly similar to what the troupe entrails and neuron activation.

[obsidian quail]

they’re out here taming Higher Beings like it’s nothing

[edgy nebula]

After you defeat lost lace 10 times and go back to trobbio’s paper it says “im grimm troupe” and then you get an after credits cutscene

[manic pewter]

wisp thicket is still really interesting tho, as it seems to resist both the silk and the void

[edgy barn]

I always interpreted that dialogue as in, The Knight was now the master of the void, just like the masters were the, uh, masters of jnn & co.

[proud swan]

Saying "especially you higher" makes me think they are used to slaving pale beings

[edgy nebula]

Same