sk-lore

[whole estuary]

let’s drop racism discourse and start being ageist

[terse warren]

We have reached the "It's not that deep" stage of SS Lore I think it's joever

[foggy fractal]

LETS GO

[sinful nimbus]

Genocide is ethical if its in video games

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/allmight-bnha-mha-meme-fist-up-gif-13588517052470008833

[rancid dagger]

gms was literally sealed into a permanent slumber, radiance was forgotten and basically fading away
and the weavers yeah they kinda suck

[foggy fractal]

Hornet isn't racist

[terse wadi]

I know you're all dogging on them but like, they probably just meant they just want to play funny bug game and not entangle it with irl politics and the like

[lucid fossil]

I was referring to the argument that “hornet can’t blame her hate just because a couple flies wronged her!!!” Literally every single fly we ever see in the game is trying to kill her and they all act the same

[proud swan]

Come on unethical actions in videogames are at least a little fun 🥲🥲

[vocal crypt]

'silksong fictional bug game' is my favorite game rn

[wise beacon]

And both radiance and gms took that out on EVERYBODY

[rancid dagger]

i honestly thought it was stated that GMS kind of enslaved weavers but there's actually no implications of them being mistreated other than their own words but mask maker says they just wanted power

[wise beacon]

That's not reasonable

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but I can also call them stupid for claiming eugenics is ethical

[terse warren]

GMS was a bit more justified than Radiance ngl

[terse wadi]

I mean, I know this is taking the piss but it kinda is in certain ones that don't really give you a reason for just obliterating everything in your path

[rancid dagger]

radiance did that to not be forgotten away and not disappear, GMS was trying to find a way to wake herself up

[lucid fossil]

weavers are the true bad guy… 🙀

[foggy fractal]

?

[rancid dagger]

i think both are pretty justifiable tbh

[eager marsh]

what is the meaning of chalamay and why do bugs from the bilelands say it?

[terse wadi]

I don't recall them doing so, I thought they just wanted no politics in their funny bug game but idk

[lucid fossil]

i honestly don’t know which one is more in the right LOL, both had their crown/people taken from them

They were both overreactions 💯

[proud swan]

is it ethical to watch kingdoms rise and fall? Is Mr Mushroom a monster?

[wise beacon]

Ok but would she be forgotten if she just like persuaded them instead of taking over everybody and killing almost the entire kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

They're the one who chose to engage in the argument so

[rancid dagger]

all art is political we literally have an abortion side quest

[eager marsh]

by bilelands i mean putrified ducts, bilewater and sinners road (ik some guys also appear in graymoor)

[lucid fossil]

I think part of it was her just wanting to spite the pale king

[wise beacon]

Gms is more justified, she really didn't do shit

[sinful nimbus]

GMS is pretty evil

[foggy fractal]

is this art political

[sinful nimbus]

Mass slavery is bad so is kidnapping and murdering people

[pine garden]

I'm inclined to believe GMS didn't mistreat them, aside from Phantom being an unfortunate failure of creation, the whole game is about her wanting a child in Lace. The Weavers carried that role until their revolt, and we saw in Hornets flashbacks that Weavers generally seemed to be power hungry (aside from Herrah), scheming since Hornets birth to have her one day overthrow GMS

[rancid dagger]

she basically almost disappeared and invading people's dreams was a way to make sure that didn't happen again

[wise beacon]

Yes, i hate that thing rahhh

[lucid fossil]

Bro is obsessed with slavery

[proud swan]

Come on everybody lets talk about the real problems

[wise beacon]

Im talking about pre haunting

[sinful nimbus]

Its a common thing in Silksong

[wise beacon]

She really didn't do much

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[rancid dagger]

i am inclined to believe she did mistreat them considering she abandoned phantom and i think there was implications of cruelty from her on lace

[wise beacon]

And her first solution was mass enslavement

[rancid dagger]

but there's no real proof

[terse wadi]

idk if I'd call that because I wouldn't say Hornet is preggo,Cursed witch crest is more a parasite than anything at least to hornets body Though you could make an argument that human fetuses are like parasites based on how parasites work and how fetuses work

[rancid dagger]

how else do you make sure you aren't eventually forgotten as a being who only exists in people's thoughts

[pine garden]

maybe, my thought process was that she would love her "children", but Phantom was a "failure" so does she didn't count as her "child"

[eager marsh]

i think chalamay may be a slur actually

since generally the bugs in the bilelands hate you

[lucid fossil]

Girl getting rid of a parasite that’s feeding on your silk is not abortion

[proud swan]

Good questioni

[eager marsh]

like the stilkins and chalamaylings (i dont know their n ame so i call them that)

[wise beacon]

Which is enacting punishment on everyone else just so you specifically don't go away

[eager marsh]

(the guys who throw spike thingies)

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[vocal crypt]

yeah how are people comparing these two things

[eager marsh]

also roachfeeders say chalamay

[pine garden]

Hornet's not literally pregnant but its an allegory. She's forcefully and without her consent attacked, and had this parasite put in her body that leeched on her nutrients and made her weaker

[rancid dagger]

a parasite that weakens your body and steals away from your strength to grow that you need to remove with help from a castaway doctor in an alley via an invasive procedure idk man it's really not subtle, hornet doesn't need to be pregnant for it to be an allegory
also a parasite that was forcefully implanted into her body

[sinful nimbus]

Its alien coded

[eager marsh]

if chalamay is a slur i should prob stop saying it

[proud swan]

Wait why does it sound like it though

[sinful nimbus]

Alien is pregnancy and SA coded which may or may not be intentional in Silksong

[pine garden]

also technically human fetuses are parasites if we wanna be edgy

[lucid fossil]

Dude people really find anything to be angry at

[rancid dagger]

if you only take media at a face value sure

[whole estuary]

It can be taken as an allegory if you want
the direct reference is to things like horsehair worms but I think the allegorical interpretation is very valid

[terse wadi]

You can call it an allegory, won't deny that but it's not literally an abortion side quest

[pine garden]

yeah not literally but its clearly that

[winged hollow]

SPOILERS FOR STEEL SOUL: I had a dream about it so I’m gonna go into SS DLC speculation. I believe, if TC is as insane as I think they are, that eventually we’ll get a DLC that involves a new part of the world with some new areas, the highlight being the home of the ||Steelhearts.|| In ||Sula’s|| needolin dialogue, he mentions ||”The spires… and underneath…||, leading me to believe this is the home of Jiji, Jinn, and ||Sula and Zi.|| Mentioned as well, in ||the Cradle|| in lore tablets, is ||the City of Steel|| which I now have reason to believe is called ||the Spire.||

[foggy fractal]

hey trobbio

[lucid fossil]

are you sure the parallels are even intentional

[pine garden]

going to an backalley sorta doctor to get non-sanctioned health work to get rid of a "baby"

[proud swan]

there are similarities with parasitic relationships but you gotta abstract some stuff. Its more of an analogy

[flint wadi]

i wonder if you can still say that pharloom was haunted by song in the final game

[terse wadi]

Sula?

[wise beacon]

What

[pine garden]

like the incessant bud is very clearlyy a baby

[foggy fractal]

Sula:

[flint wadi]

yk now that we completed the game the silk part of silksong shines through a lot clearer

[winged hollow]

Hi Andy!

[pine garden]

like look at the fucking thing, it looks like a baby and it cries like a baby non stop

[terse wadi]

Oh, didn't know that was his name

[proud swan]

this is fire

[foggy fractal]

[pine garden]

the witch that puts the parasite inside hornet constantly talks about birth

[vocal crypt]

i saw someone make another valid comparison with the parasite quest to religion and churches, wont mention it too much cos i dont remember it that well but it was another way to look at it that seemed just as likely to me and a bit more nuanced

[lean temple]

It's possible spires are places of forced work/toiling. Sula mentions the cruelty of steel.

[proud swan]

But where are Steelhearts mentioned?

[pine garden]

"birth... time for birth... I'll put birth in you..." and shit like that

[terse wadi]

It is, but the curse you get isn't even the baby it's Greyroot infecting your shell

[lucid fossil]

ILL PUT BIRTH IN YOU 😭😭😭

[rancid dagger]

it's really not subtle

[terse wadi]

Rebirth

[wise beacon]

Well in SotV it's pretty much neither silk nor song

[regal crow]

What’s with the ||broken harp at fleatopia||?

[flint wadi]

the innital synopsis of pharloom was that of "a land haunted by silk and song", hence the name of the game lol

but now i cant really tell the relevance of songs is on par with silk which is basically the final boss of the game

[wise beacon]

It's just Hollow Knight:

[rancid dagger]

greyroot's body becomes a wooden statue

[pine garden]

yeah and the whole overarching theme of Silksong is motherhood, so an abortion quest makes sense to be in this game

[rancid dagger]

also also

[regal crow]

What’s with the ||broken harp at fleatopia||?

[wise beacon]

As grandmother silk no longer has control and there's no reason for them to continue playing the songs that were meant for gms

[flint wadi]

act 3 is void yes but the reason void even can excert influence is cause its possesing grandma's threads

[pine garden]

yeah when I first read that in game I got massive rapey vibes from the witch

[lean temple]

The Citadel is like a giant music box

[winged hollow]

Also, to add onto this, Sharpe essentially has to be added. He is a backer character, so along with conflicting too much with Lace’s character, he was probably cut from the main game in order to save him for DLC.

[lucid fossil]

It’s just a lore tablet, it was there before fleatopia

[vocal crypt]

the song part is in reference to the citadel portion of the story imo

[rancid dagger]

yeah trying to say the quest with 500000 abortion parallels in a game with an overarching motherhood theme is just "you get a parasite and you take it out" is some next level media illiteracy honestly

[terse wadi]

It's transferred itself into you

What's left is a husk

Hornet: Very well. This final rite... what would you have me do?
The time... of birth is close. Now give... its shell. Host... the final rite.
The time of birth... is near.

[regal crow]

I know it was, that’s why I’m curious what it is

If it is a lore tablet, you can’t interact with it

[wise beacon]

The songs were created by the weavers for gms. The songs are also magic-ish things that have power

[lucid fossil]

You play the needolin on those tablets and they activate

[rancid dagger]

it's the bud you are nurturing as a parasite

[regal crow]

Ohhhhh

[winged hollow]

Sula mentions that “the steelhearts feel so little…”

[wise beacon]

Not only was gms put into dormancy by song, but several things in the kingdom are controlled by song like doors, tablets, and event recreations

[foggy fractal]

true, unless the backer said to remove it which I doubt
only two options I think, dlc or backer said to remove it

[wise beacon]

And the creatures but its a mixture

[rancid dagger]

everything in the game is based on songs

[pine garden]

also the weaver hideouts being opened with the needolin

[flint wadi]

true, but im just not seeing that unifying element with songs, citadel is equally both centered around silk as it is around music

[wise beacon]

"Doors"

[terse wadi]

It's definantly an allegory, so idk if this was meant for me, but the particular instance is not literally that is all I'm saying

[proud swan]

Life is weird. My spouse is a librarian and she talking about how beautiful it is working with children. And im talking about abortion allegories

[winged hollow]

What’s the second?

[proud swan]

Oh thats nice!

[terse wadi]

The duality of man

[wise beacon]

Tell her about the abortion allegory

[foggy fractal]

sorry read that again

[rancid dagger]

of course is not literal they aren't impregnating hornet but it's what's implied and the main theme of the quest

[lean temple]

With all the new hints and teases in Steel Soul mode I believe TC are planning something big for the Steel lore

[pine garden]

at least the incessant bud was cute

[proud swan]

It is possible that you may not have my best interest in mind?

[lucid fossil]

That thing pissed me off I wanted to stomp it

[foggy fractal]

god I hope

[rancid dagger]

annoying as fuck too made me not open my map as often

[rancid dagger]

just like babies irl

[wise beacon]

I mean

[pine garden]

just like actual babies

[lucid fossil]

LMAOAOO okay guys

[flint wadi]

yes, but songs and music end up being elements relating entirely to the citadel rather than pharloom as a whole

[wise beacon]

Maybe

[terse wadi]

I mean, I guess, I mostly treated it as a plant infestation and the concept of plant "birth" is very different from things made of flesh for lack of a better term

[foggy fractal]

yeah it wouldn't make sense for Sharpe to be cut by TC cuz they're like legally bound

[flint wadi]

idk i guess i just expected music fanatism and bellways to be a bit more elaborated upon

[terse wadi]

so I agree it's an allegory, but I think it's more nuanced in reality

[rancid dagger]

the citadel is basically pharloom's capital and main cultural point, but you do have songs being relevant for weaver stuff and memories from pharloom

[proud swan]

Mean people generally dont regard themselves as mean. So you good. I trust you

[lucid fossil]

Maybe a dlc will be about the city of steel mentioned in the cradle

[wise beacon]

But I am mean

[foggy fractal]

whether or not TC made it with that intent we'll never know unless they themselves say it ig

[flint wadi]

thats also fair

[foggy fractal]

god I hope

[wise beacon]

And you should not trust me

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/black-guy-whtie-and-black-cry-praying-looking-up-gif-553441503240360994

[rancid dagger]

also the entire pilgrimage religion thing is pretty musical based considering the bells need ringing and obstacles are supposed to be passed via music

[foggy fractal]

me praying for peak dlcs

[vocal crypt]

the weavers have some music elements, not as pronounced but they still exist somewhat (weavenest gates, the harp things they write lore on, needolin, eva's harmonization sort of)

[rancid dagger]

which is why sherma tries to open the door in the marrow by singing

[proud swan]

Keep saying that bro. I know you're a true brother

[subtle plaza]

I think pilgrims are stupid

[lucid fossil]

God I hope not, imagine moving through a city surrounded by thousands of steel soul jinns 😭

[terse wadi]

yeah

[rancid dagger]

eva is always singing and she turns into the sylphsong too

[wise beacon]

This is not reverse psychology 😭

[foggy fractal]

no Hornet will solo TRUST.

[lucid fossil]

They’re just manipulated methinks

[vocal crypt]

i love the vibe the steel beings put off, i'd love a whole area with that cold unknown feeling that they give

[wise beacon]

No it's just buzzsaws and spikes again

[proud swan]

Wait is THIS reverse psychology? Nice

[wise beacon]

3x environmental damage

[flint wadi]

thats more of a sherma thing, you dont really see any other pilgrims discuss the importantce of songs, at best you can see some hoarding and throwing bells

[pine garden]

oh yeah I was wondering, the whole thing with Hallownest was that the Pale King elavated the intelligence of the bugs within his kingdom, and the bugs that came outside of it lacked said intelligence. But then Pharloom has normally intelligent bugs, what's up with that?

[rancid dagger]

they are devoted in blind faith, not stupid

[terse wadi]

Sometimes people here make obivous connections and references, other times I worry for some of you for how you read into certain things

[rancid dagger]

the pilgrims tell you the way to open the grand gate is via song

[flint wadi]

no theyre just devoted

[pine garden]

was Hallownest just, like a particularily savage area with no civilized bugs or something

[rancid dagger]

and sherma only thinks that because of the citadel faith

[flint wadi]

thats a grand gate thing specficially

[rancid dagger]

which you can extrapolate to be all pilgrims

[lucid fossil]

why do you think that

[proud swan]

But some of them do sing

[terse wadi]

No?

[proud swan]

Also when you play needolin its really common for npcs to sing

[rancid dagger]

bugs were infected by the radiance

[wise beacon]

Before pk, yeah, seems like it

[pine garden]

cause if there already were intelligent bugs before Pale Kings arrival, then his gift of intelligence wouldn't be such a big thing

[terse wadi]

there's some debate whether PK creating bugs and or giving some bugs intelligence is propaganda or real but I don't think so

[wise beacon]

Im pretty sure they're talking about before the pale king

[pine garden]

maybe it wasn't literal, and instead PK brought "culture" to Hallownest

[rancid dagger]

ah

[regal crow]

||what’s the story of the flea caravan? They’re not going to fleatopia, they just end up there||

I kinda lost track of their lore, tbh

[vocal crypt]

guys has anyone determined where the hell the pilgrims actually come from

literally the only indication is at the beginning of the game when the church snail talks about them "coming from the depths" or some shit so what's up with that

[lucid fossil]

I think pale beings have the power to create beacons, so the pale king created one at hallownest

[terse wadi]

Tbh, already existing tribes wouldn't, but ones PK created would

[pine garden]

yeah I'm talking about Pale King gifting intelligence and sepience to bugs upon his arrival, prior to infection

[lucid fossil]

Beacons being the things that attract bugs and give them intelligence

[proud swan]

We never saw smart bugs outside of some kind of influence of pale beings tbh

[whole estuary]

I think some bugs would not be able to be intelligent at all without the passive influence of the PK, but others are naturally intelligent

[vocal crypt]

i dont think sapience and intelligence is exclusively granted by wyrms, i just think that the pale king took a previously dead land and turned it alive (HALLOWnest, as in hallowed land)

[pine garden]

maybe its a deal similar to weavers, how GMS turned those savage spiders into sepient weavers. Pale King turned bunch of savage bugs into intelligent bugs

[terse wadi]

My understanding has been he gifted intelligence to bugs he already created hence when they leave they lose it but preexisting bugs already had it

[rancid dagger]

it being propaganda doesn't really make sense since it's on the white palace dream that you can read that

and normal bugs are not reading that in the white palace

[wise beacon]

Can we talk about how the mantid tribe is just baller for no reason?

[lucid fossil]

Basically yeah, mother silk is also a pale being so makes sense

[regal crow]

||what’s the story of the flea caravan? They’re not going to fleatopia, they just end up there||

I kinda lost track of their lore, tbh

[terse wadi]

Nah I don't disagree I was just saying some debate that

[pine garden]

yeah that makes sense

[proud swan]

I mean yes but there are intelligent bugs in pharloom as well. So if the theory is correct the vehicle is probably silk

[rancid dagger]

they come to pharloom for enlightment or something like that, but most of them get lost

[pine garden]

the Mantis Tribe, the Fungal tribe and Unn's land existed prior to it, but seemed like rest of hallownest was a wasteland prior to Pale Kings arrival, and he gave sapience to bunch of other wise wild bugs and made a kingdom

[terse wadi]

Hallownest natives were given intelligence but bugs there beforehand or after are not and were always sapient

[wise beacon]

Actually im quite surprised grimm troupe hasn't gotten to pharloom yet since it's falling and stuff

Unless im thinking about mr mushroom

[pine garden]

Pale King was a pretty great guy aside from the whole abyss business

[wise beacon]

I think im thinking about mister mushroom

[proud swan]

Actually GMS CANNOT be responsible for higher intelligence in pharloom because of the tribes that lived there before (karmelita, khan, etc)

[pine garden]

no no you're right, Grimm Troupe said they travel to dying kingdoms to feed off their nightmares

[terse wadi]

Unless TC retcons it, Grimm Troupe only shows up at dead kingdoms and Pharloom is not dead (yet)

[pine garden]

but Pharloom isn't actually dead, its just a shithole lmao

[terse wadi]

Exeactly

[flint wadi]

yeah, hallownest was kind of the same in that lands like deepnest or the mantis village were already their own civilizations with sapient bugs

[pine garden]

like the governing functions seem to be still there, its the same city it was like century ago or something

[wise beacon]

So troupe is dead, mushroom is dying?

[vocal crypt]

non-pale/higher beings can have intelligence without being given it or being within proximity to a higher being, given the previous groups living in pharloom, the mantis tribe in hallownest, and probably the grimm troupe scouts like the one in howling cliffs

probably mr mushroom too, but who knows what he even is

[pine garden]

or the troupe could be busy in another kingdom

[terse wadi]

Yeah, if hornet didn't intervene it would've died eventually

[terse wadi]

Huh

[wise beacon]

Troupe visits dead, mushroom visits dying

[rancid dagger]

where was this info from sorry

[proud swan]

But these arent higher beings

[flint wadi]

mr mushroom comes at the passage of an age, a big change, not necessarily death of a kingdom

[whole estuary]

I do think the Father of the Flame stuff might be a sort of precursor to Grimm Troupe’s appearance(remember the dead bug in a cave by a pyre) but since Pharloom is still kicking they won’t show up

[wise beacon]

Ah right

[flint wadi]

troupe though feasts on remains of dead kingdoms thats true

[vocal crypt]

exactly, thats my point. higher beings arent the exclusive holders of intelligence in the world

[lucid fossil]

What classifies as a dead kingdom though? Pharloom is pretty similar to hallownest in terms of everyone being mindless robots

[pine garden]

I think Grimm or one of his followers talked about it, that the nightmare heart would feed off of nightmares from bugs of dying kingdoms or dead kingdoms, I dont remember which. Which is why they arrived at hollownest

[terse wadi]

Mr Mushroom talks about being in the present in SS he is the herald of a passing of the age

[proud swan]

That what im saying!! Nah jk I totally misinterpreted it sorry

[terse wadi]

Let me parse through the dialogue to find the exact phrasiology

[vocal crypt]

there are still villages and commerce being done, at least to a greater degree than hallownest. not all that much better though tbf

[whole estuary]

Hallownest is mostly populated by walking corpses, Pharloom has puppeted living bodies

[vocal crypt]

lol np

[whole estuary]

Also yea

[vocal crypt]

arent they only alive because of the silk within them though?

[wise beacon]

Team cherry give me an animated short from when either kingdom wasn't dying pleaaaaase

[pine garden]

Hallownest was properly dead kingdom, it lacked any governing structures, there were only a couple settlements. Pharloom as a kingdom is functioning as it was designed to, if the haunting was taken away, I think the bugs would continue their routine work as usual. Thought that is probably not the case anymore after act 3

[lucid fossil]

i mean, you can see corpses getting reanimated by silk in places like the citadel and mosshome

[rancid dagger]

im looking through the dialogue and the only thing i can find is Brumm saying the flame he obtained from this dead kingdom, but that doesnt mean it's necesarilly dead kingdoms

[pine garden]

prior to act 3, Pharloom was still a proper functioning kingdom, I could expect tax collectors to be a thing in Pharloom. In hallownest it was a proper dead kingdom

[flint wadi]

pharloom is neither dead nor alive, kinda like hallownest? but unlike it its still performing its function in drawing pilgrims in and maintaining some semblence of operation in the citadel

[pine garden]

hmm then I might be misremembering. Sorry I played the OG HK years ago when the Godhome DLC first released

[pine garden]

oh yeah this was probably what I was thinking of thanks

[valid compass]

where do you guys think hornet learned unarmed combat

[flint wadi]

pharloom isnt really dead until the citadel is rubble

[rancid dagger]

isn't that contradicting this brumm dialogue tho? where he gets 2nd thoughts BECAUSE the kingdom is dead?

[lapis creek]

probably still vespa

[lucid fossil]

I think Pharloom is only slightly better than Hallownest in terms like that, the hunters journal says the flies and underwork guys continue working their jobs even with the haunting being present, the same was seen for the journal entires in the city of tears

[vocal crypt]

i think the main reason for this is because of the constant influx of pilgrims from (where???) that fill the kingdom with intelligent beings, maybe because of gms having a similar pull to the pale king's? im still really confused as to the origin of the pilgrims

[lucid fossil]

But yeah the existing commerce and villages makes it slightly more alive than hallownest

[whole estuary]

Some yes, a bunch of others go from doing a daily routine(walking while praying usually) to attacking though

[rancid dagger]

also where is this dialogue from i genuinely cannot find it

[lapis creek]

hunter's journal

[terse wadi]

^

[lapis creek]

for tmg

[pine garden]

the difference I guess is that Pharloom still has a functioning "government" if we can call it that

and Hallownest doesn't, Hallownest is proper anarchy

[wise beacon]

More like the outline of one

[flint wadi]

difference is that citadel as a unit is still doing its job, meanwhile city of tears is a city for noone, its not sustaining anything

[pine garden]

yeah

[wise beacon]

A skeleton if it just had the ribs taken out

[lucid fossil]

ok guys who had a better government in terms of ethics, hallownest or pharloom

[rancid dagger]

that's weird then considering what brumm says but oh well

[flint wadi]

hallownest EASILY

[pine garden]

easily hallownest

[wise beacon]

No real structure but the framework is there

[wise beacon]

Hallownest by a mile

[flint wadi]

not even a question

[rancid dagger]

i do think they could justify the grimm troupe coming to pharloom but i would hate that tbh dont reuse concepts when we have so much shit to expand upon you know

[rancid dagger]

bro have you seen the treadmill

[lucid fossil]

LMAOOAO

[pine garden]

hallownest was an utopian goal by Pale King who wanted to make the best kingdom he could for his subjects, and even treated his neighbors in Mantis Tribe fairly

[wise beacon]

Could just say it ends with the banishment

[lucid fossil]

weavers are the true enemies of pharloom…

[wise beacon]

I mean...yeah kinda

[pine garden]

Pharloom is a shithole, Pharloom at its peak was probably a way worse place than the fucking anarchical wasteland of Hallownest at the start of Hollow Knight

[lucid fossil]

PK cared about his kingdom, not his children and mother silk is the opposite 🥹

[rancid dagger]

both banishment and NKG endings could work as next troupe master would just be HK's grimmchild

[terse wadi]

Hornet actively works to prevent the kingdoms fall in act 3 so I can't see it happening unless there's an option in a possible act 4 dlc that splits based on whether you failed or succseeded

[rancid dagger]

but i just wouldn't want them to reuse the grimm troupe you know

[vocal crypt]

yeah the class struggle in pharloom is way worse than hallownest

[lucid fossil]

Lifeblood infected pharloom wheeen!!!

[wise beacon]

Doesn't child have to consume the father's flame?

Which only happens with NKG

[rancid dagger]

im saying they could justify it because of brumm's dialogue implying he doesn't like doing the ritual in a dead kingdom

[flint wadi]

pretty much lol, at best you could maybe find a cushy life as a choral worshipper but if you got assigned to underworks ITS OVER

[wise beacon]

Otherwise it probably just dies cause it can't feed anymore

[terse wadi]

99% of that is Zxoytl's fault

[forest blade]

Who wins in a fight grubberfly or huge flea

[lapis creek]

the main theme of brumm's dialogue is his exhaustion with the endless cycle so i think his dialogue generally fits with the journal entry

[rancid dagger]

yeah so NKG ending is grimm child and banishment ending is grimm

[pine garden]

bro if you're born as a fly you're FUCKED

[rancid dagger]

but they wouldn't need to differenciate them

[lucid fossil]

Where does lifeblood come from though, I thought it originated from the abyss creature but what was he doing down there to extract it

[rancid dagger]

i agree but they could still justify it via that

but yeah i really really hope they dont do grimm troupe in silksong

[flint wadi]

zylotols master found it at the salt lakes

[lapis creek]

unclear how many grimm generations have passed since the events of hollow knight so it might not even be our grimmchild if it were to appear

[rancid dagger]

considering we have steel city and void shenanigans to expand upon

[flint wadi]

yk the ones at fleatopia

[whole estuary]

you sneeze in public and they decide you committed a mortal sin and send you to the slab for life

[rancid dagger]

true

[flint wadi]

but probably futher away

[lucid fossil]

But what about our precious smoker boyfriend!!

[pine garden]

it better be, would suck if they showed us Grim and its not our precious baby boy from last game

[wise beacon]

I kinda just thought the grimm troupe just dies off after banishment cause bro has no child and the child has no father flame

[flint wadi]

if you laugh you go to the slab

[terse wadi]

Doesn't Brumm's dialogue imply he wants to break the chain/cycle of rituals

[pine garden]

would be lame if a Higher Being like the nightmare heart would have its troupe just die off in a banishment ending

[terse wadi]

Thought so too

[rancid dagger]

he kind of says both things but yeah

[rancid dagger]

i mean maybe he can reuse the grimmchild or just make another we dont really know

[pine garden]

it sucked to be a member of the nightmare troupe, Brumm was much better off once he was freed from it

[vocal crypt]

but brumm says "this once i would like to see the ritual fail." i feel like that implies the ritual wouldn't end, just that the "flame of hallownest" wouldn't be successfully harvested and they would have to move on

[mint furnace]

Slab is too good for you, you’re going to the whiteward for experimenting and then incineration

[flint wadi]

sentenced to silkbotomy

[wise beacon]

The nightmare heart seems more in power through its people and less having power in its own right.

[rancid dagger]

he says it is painful to betray the master so he doesnt really want to do it

[wise beacon]

Cause it can't really move it seems

[terse wadi]

I always took Troupe banishment as breaking the cycle and basically killing NMH by starving it of it's necessary nutrients

[rancid dagger]

honestly the grimm troupe and nightmare heart dont even seem malevolent

[pine garden]

I doubt we'll get another troupe DLC thought

[flint wadi]

thats likely what happened yeah

[terse wadi]

They aren't they're scavengers

[mint furnace]

The Grimm troupe always seems like such a wacky ass ritual

[wise beacon]

He could also not know what happens when a ritual fails, which could be the end of the grimm troupe as he is freed after the failure

[mint furnace]

I’m amazed it lasted that long

[flint wadi]

id rather explore new ideas, grimm troupe in ss wouldnt really be anything new

[wise beacon]

Yeah that's what i though

[rancid dagger]

maybe he wasnt even "freed" he was just kicked out for betraying them

[pine garden]

aside from Grimm troupe mind controlling bugs, they dont actually hurt bugs do they? They eat nightmares but that didn't seem to physically effect Hallownest or its bugs

[flint wadi]

maybe we would see grown grimmchild though

[rancid dagger]

we dont know whether another ritual could begin in time tho

[wise beacon]

Pretty tame punishment but i guess he did lose his memories

[terse wadi]

Imo, NMH and the troupe are in dormancy until called to their next ritual to feast

[terse wadi]

maybe

[vocal crypt]

are seth and brumm's arcs similar in how something radical happens to them and they just become entirely new people? i havent finished seth's line yet but that's the vibe im getting

[rancid dagger]

doesnt even need to be a punishment tho they arent really malevolent
could be just "you dont fw us so go do your own thing"

[pine garden]

to me it seemed like his actual personality was overwritten by mind control, rather than him losing his memories

[rancid dagger]

after all he doesnt really dislike the grimm troupe he said it was painful to betray his master

[left oyster]

Evil vessel kills broke smoker homeless father and feeds him to his own child

So kind godseeker sentences it to pantheon 5

[mint furnace]

• find dead kingdom
• dump child onto random person you find in a kingdom that is dead
• tell them to go find a bunch of ghost children and take their fire (while not dying)
• dance with Grimm
• repeat step 3
• go into Grimms dream, get guy to fight a god called the nightmare heart
• hope the child grows up while not dying and recollects the Grimm troupe, repeat from step 1

[flint wadi]

yes, though seth's identity as a guardian isnt really tied to a mask like brumms

[wise beacon]

Yeah the nmh could just be lax like that. Unn did kinda just let things happen as well

[flint wadi]

but theyre both free if you relief them of their posts

[wise beacon]

When you think about it, Radiance, GMS, and Pale King don't give the higher powers a good image

[pine garden]

oh yeah whats up with Seth's amnesia

[terse wadi]

Tracks

[mint furnace]

I’m sorry, pale king is goated

[pine garden]

I didn't finish his flea quest because fuck that

[vocal crypt]

does the end of seth's travel explain any more about what happened to him? (also where do i go to meet him again i havent seen him since shellwood)

[flint wadi]

he got brummd

[mint furnace]

Take it back

[feral inlet]

Pale king tried to be fair but was one step too short

[whole estuary]

shoutout to unn and feyforn for minding their own business

[flint wadi]

not really, even his singing verses just talk about how hes basically a new bug now

[pine garden]

I mean, for any one who didn't know about the abyss. The Pale king was a pretty great guy

[rancid dagger]

i actually think nightmare heart being pretty chill is a good subversion of expectations, after all when we hear "nightmare heart" we think evil thingy but the troupe actually treat us pretty well, rewards us for our help and even the fight vs NKG isn't dangerous to us since it's a dream

[mint furnace]

Look atleast he kept the child genocide in the basement

[terse wadi]

Isn't PK and Rad's qurral weakening Unn causing her to hibernate since they keep wrestling control of her mosskin

[wise beacon]

He did kinda fuck over a whole god, intentionally or otherwise, which incited the fall of his kingdom that his shitass foresight didn't help with

[rancid dagger]

PK doesnt wrest control of anything the bugs worshipped him willingly

radiance does take over her mosskin

[mint furnace]

Grimm troupe actually doesn’t seem that invasive, it’s just how the fuck is that sustainable

[whole estuary]

I think so, and she just kind of gave up :(

[wise beacon]

Though arguably he could have planned for the kingdom to fall in such a way that the knight did succeed

[sacred heath]

grimm is the only being that knows about the Vessel’s origin that actually respects them

[terse wadi]

It's self serving and we happen to benefit

[feral inlet]

Idek if he was considering them children tbh, dude was just raising pokemons and throwing away weak ones

[pine garden]

yeah something like that, she gets weaker over time

[mint furnace]

That… isn’t his fault though?

[scenic stirrup]

I dont remember the pale king telling the hollow knight

[vocal crypt]

i love the difference in perspective on the kingsmould journal entries between the games, hk taking a more objective approach while hornet, having lived in the palace and having more personal experience with void, sees what they really were

[rancid dagger]

man i love everything about the grimm troupe so much

[terse wadi]

His beacon does naturally attract bugs to him

[scenic stirrup]

Ur the hollow knight im dying dawg

[wise beacon]

And then he dipped out on the kingdom when shit went south

[feral inlet]

Classic politician move

[pine garden]

to be fair, he didn't do anything to fuck with the Radiance as far as we know. The moths tribe just decided to worship him instead cause he was brighter and for all we know, he might've had no idea about the Radiance

[wise beacon]

A bad image is a bad image, no matter the intention

[mint furnace]

Yeah they were like barely children, and don’t need to think about it if you throw 99% off a cliff anyway

[whole estuary]

gotta get that 6x31 IV Quiet nature Vessel ig

[mint furnace]

How is it a bad image though

Oh boo hoo radiance isn’t as much of a cool kid anymore

And the moths moved to the new trend

[pine garden]

also the vessels, the idea was that they wouldn't have sentience, so it wouldn't be as bad as actually killing thouands of your own babies

[wise beacon]

Idk how to explain it. You caused the downfall of a kingdom and basically did fuck all while allowing multiple people and your children to die along the way. Not technically his fault, but it doesn't look good yknow

[pine garden]

like the point of their existance is that they wouldn't feel things like pain

or think in general

[mint furnace]

I like to believe the vessels started without sentient thought, but instead developed it, so it probably wasn’t THAT bad

[pine garden]

not fair to say fuck all when he did so much he killed thousands of his children

[sacred heath]

he didn’t cause the downfall he actively tried to save it

[flint wadi]

pk is probably the most benevolent of them all to be fair

pharloom really had us see the light lol

[wise beacon]

He did cause it, just not intentionally

[sacred heath]

no cost too great.

[wise beacon]

Im not saying it's his fault, but he did unintentionally cause it

[mint furnace]

This is like saying it’s the Roman’s empires fault for collapsing because when they formed it eventually leads to raids from the north

[pine garden]

yeah probably, but I do think all vessels are sentient to an extend, like if they couldn't think they wouldn't be able to move at all

[trim lark]

were there even any good options in pk's situation

[void smelt]

Why does lace decided to save us when the GMS was caught in out trap ?

[mint furnace]

Which, probably bad example because it still is their fault but also you just blame the raiders

[pine garden]

to me it seemed like this was just PK's desperation

[terse warren]

Actually Hornet is just wrong about them

[vocal crypt]

how so

[terse wadi]

Well, it's true that the moths were attracted to the pale beacon which seems to be subconciously leaked from PK's being but the first Moths also tried to actively forget Radiance which is likely the original source of anger but A. She doesn't need to take it out on PK or his kingdom who are not at fault the Moths are and B. Maybe don't create such a fickle people Radiance

[mint furnace]

It has a last ditch effort regardless, us and him don’t know much about the void

[terse warren]

It was her way of rebelling

[pine garden]

my personal headcanon was that PK realized that HK wasn't truly hollow during that flashback sequence, but still went on with the plan because at that point, he sacrificed so much and to be fair, HK did seal off the radiance for some time

[flint wadi]

lace really just wanted to make sure grandma couldnt get out

[wise beacon]

Cool i can't fully explain my thoughts rn

[mint furnace]

And, funnily enough, his plan still worked

[sacred heath]

oh so it’s his fault the Moths didn’t want to praise the sun anymore
it’s his fault Radi got pissy and decided to press the button that kills everyone

[mint furnace]

His 3 surviving children did kill the radiance

[rancid dagger]

Rebellious daughter against seemingly abusive mother

[void smelt]

She hated GMS?

[flint wadi]

yes

[terse warren]

Because we see the Wingsmoulds work perfectly fine in HK 1

[void smelt]

Why

[wise beacon]

Yeah, he was the cause of it, but it wasn't his fault

[pine garden]

yeah her dialogue drips with resetnment towards GMS

[mint furnace]

Yeah, kinda radiances fault for having people that are that quick to swap

And then getting pissed at everyone else for it

[wise beacon]

By technicality he was the cause of it

[void smelt]

But why she hated so much GMS?

[flint wadi]

she resents her mother for the "fake" life she gave her, lace doesnt see herself as anything but a crude creation

[mint furnace]

So why does it matter??

That doesn’t tarnish his image

[void smelt]

Thanks!!

[mint furnace]

It just makes radiance look like a bitch

[terse wadi]

He's the cause in so far that his pale beacon attracted the moths butthe first moths also tried to actively forget Radiance

[vocal crypt]

well it wasnt a matter of function imo, all we actually see them do is sort of float around so maybe the seals on their chassis were just good enough to keep them in place but not much else

[pine garden]

yeah that, Lace talks about herself not being a "real person", or a "living" being. Also Phantom was her sister and the two interacted with each other

[terse warren]

GMS made Lace despite knowing she would've been insane and doomed to die

[vocal crypt]

they seemed like nothing more than experiments by the pk anyway

[pine garden]

and it did seem like Phantom was in a lot of pain during her fragile creation, and both Lace and Phantom resented GMS for that

[rancid dagger]

Also isn't it stated she is kept weak and dependant so she can't leave her like the weavers? I might be making it up but i remember this from somewhere

[mint furnace]

iirc there is no dialogue that mentions the pale king even caring about the radiance

[flint wadi]

she isnt unfounded in this either, lace's child mannerisms are a direct consequence of her being a silk doll modeled after a child

[mint furnace]

Until he’s attacked by her

[terse wadi]

nope

[mint furnace]

But even then the “false one, you cannot reach me here” was cut

[pine garden]

she needs Silk to survive and thus is tied to GMS

[terse wadi]

He was just like "oh, cool new bugs"

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone is doomed to die 💔

Is Lace an antinatalist

[wise beacon]

I mean it's just how I personally see it. He encroached on a land on where people were already living. Everyone has a part to play in my eyes. This one is neither beneficial nor detrimental i simply see it as it is

[terse warren]

I mean in the spun to break way

[flint wadi]

dont quite remember this but it could just be my memory

[mint furnace]

“Wowie, more followers! I really am doing good :D”

[pine garden]

also Silk seems to act more like a child, until act 3 when she drops the act and starts talking in a more "normal" way

[flint wadi]

generally lace's "fragility" is something that went over my head lol

[pine garden]

could be her having to act more childish under GMS's watch

[wise beacon]

And if it it can be a factor what i see it as i include it

[terse wadi]

pretty much

[mint furnace]

Untrue

[pine garden]

to fit the "child" role she was created for, I could be reaching with this tho

[mint furnace]

Hallownest was “wild and untamed”

The bugs had no mind

[flint wadi]

lace is very playful in act 3 too

[mint furnace]

Well most with a few exceptions

[wise beacon]

Though they were still there

[pine garden]

yeah but it felt like her dialogue wasn't the same as act 1/2. Thought she's also literally fucking dying in act 3 so it would influence her personality

[wise beacon]

You can see it how you want

You aren't going to be able to see it how I see it because I can't properly articulate my thoughts

[terse wadi]

unholy screeches

[wise beacon]

As you do not have to see it that way i don't believe it matters that much

[whole estuary]

Her needolin dialogue in the second fight is pretty heartbreaking, she both resents GMS and wants her love

[pine garden]

I mean the PK didn't fuck with the Fungal people or the Mantis Tribe, he had good relations with them. It was mostly Deepnest that was the problem child and even then he managed to convince Herrah to be a dreamer

[mint furnace]

Moths (he did not interact with them, they went to pk)

Mantises (he ignored)

Unn (he was fine)

Deepnest (attempted, denied)

[terse wadi]

HK as a franchise is parental issues in one form or another

[mint furnace]

I guess mushrooms he kinda fucked

That’s about it, everything else was radiances fault

[pine garden]

HK is daddy issues game (not as prevalent), and Silksong is mommy issues game (very prevalent)

[terse warren]

Mushrooms followed him cuz future sight

[rancid dagger]

By virtue of being a smoking hot deity

[sacred heath]

lace in acts 1-2: ✨ nothing in life matters! ✨
lace in act 3: nothing in life matters…

[terse wadi]

Both parental issues to some extent for both TK and Hornet in both games

[wise beacon]

Actually he did build into green path, did build the tram to resting yrohndsnand like you said attrnpted to go into deepnest

[pine garden]

the mushrooms got fucked over by Radiance due to their hive mind being uniquely at risk of the infection, I dont think he did anything wrong to the fungal people

[mint furnace]

Lace losing the childish whimsy of being “tee hee~” was terrible :(

[mint furnace]

Yeah not really, it was mainly just him saying “ay I got this” then not getting it

But again still radiances fault

[flint wadi]

well if you want daddy issues look no further than birthplace

[terse wadi]

idk why people always mention the upper tram in deepnest like it fails , bros literally got a lower tram into deepnest

[wise beacon]

Honestly it's kinda better for her, as morbid as it is, since she actually getd to develop beyonfld simply being gms' child

[pine garden]

dropping the childish act when mom isn't watching

[flint wadi]

its just at the tail end of deepnest though

[terse wadi]

still works

[flint wadi]

like its at the very border

the failed tram cut right into it

[mint furnace]

I love the personality, it just results in people with a reading comprehension of the 5th grade going “um lace is a child” when lacenet is mentioned

[pine garden]

this chat do be like this rn

[flint wadi]

i dont think lace is literally a child but i do think shes inherently will always act like one and cant really do anything about it

[spark valve]

lace has the mind of a child and presumably will forever

[mint furnace]

YES

[pine garden]

she a brat not a child

[mint furnace]

HAIL THE PALE KING REGIME, MAY HE REIGN ETERNAL

[sacred heath]

to be perfectly honest
even in the context of hollow knight PK was never that bad

[terse wadi]

The game describes her as such, definantly not chronologically but "look of a child and mind to match" is our clearest indication

[sacred heath]

everything he did had a good reason

[pine garden]

yeah aside the radical actions with the vessels, he did nothing wrong

[terse wadi]

Lmao

[flint wadi]

pharloom had us see the (pale) light

[mint furnace]

Yes, but that’s from a character in a game

[pine garden]

further than nothing wrong, he did pretty much everything good imaginable for the bugs of hallownest

[mint furnace]

Characters have perspectives

[flint wadi]

a kingdom so bad we saw hallownest for its blessings

[mint furnace]

Differing perspectives, or bias, should be recognized as such

[spark valve]

[terse wadi]

That's an act of desperation for the greater good that sadly didn't work

[spark valve]

media literacy moment

[mint furnace]

However back to the 5th grade, people apparently don’t have the ability to see those

[terse wadi]

Where tf else would I get info about the game other than in the game

[sacred heath]

“no cost too great.”

[spark valve]

the shaman is not remotely presented as incorrect by the game something being said by a character doesn't make it not true

[mint furnace]

other parts of the game

[spark valve]

no other part of the game contradicts it

[mint furnace]

I’m sorry????

[foggy fractal]

hello Tammo

[terse wadi]

No one else describes her though

[flint wadi]

i just dont get lace's complex about being an artificial silk being if there isnt a consequence of her being one

[mint furnace]

Anytime lace talks in act 3

[wise beacon]

She seems to be growing at least. She was formed to serve, but she's gaining her own will already

[mint furnace]

Does that sound like a child

[pine garden]

yeah it seems like it. GMS made her to be her child forever, thought Lace is clearly intelligent and retrospective, she just has a very bratty personality and clearly hates her life and has a lot of resentment that her inherently childish personality struggles to reconsile with

[terse wadi]

And pretty sure Caretaker says that and he has more insight than most compared to the common bug

[mint furnace]

Even her act 1-2 dialogue isn’t child talking it’s just her personality

[spark valve]

yes

[mint furnace]

Known as the “tee hee~” personality

[spark valve]

you're just making that up though

[flint wadi]

^, this doesnt mean she cant alter her act but her nature is still her nature

[mint furnace]

Ah yes, word child mentioned so nothing else can be inferred

[spark valve]

cry about it ig

[mint furnace]

She’s also just immortal so that is pretty contradictory

[spark valve]

no it's not

[mint furnace]

“Body of a child”

[spark valve]

and a mind to match

[mint furnace]

Made entirely of silk and is probably pretty damn old

[spark valve]

One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.
reading is hard isn't it

[mint furnace]

If you use one source sure

[spark valve]

she's long lived but her mind is trapped as that of a child

[flint wadi]

and this is coming from caretaker who is very perceptive

[mint furnace]

However caretaker is not around for act 3

So unfortunately his sight is unable to see laces character beyond that

[spark valve]

ok you're just coping

'nuh uh'

[mint furnace]

I’ve yet to seen you put forth any evidence besides “well this guy says it”

[flint wadi]

and again, if lace being a silk woven child for grandma to play mother with, why is she resenting her nature so much

[spark valve]

yes the game says it
that is evidence

[mint furnace]

I think you’re coping

[pine garden]

okay since the "Lace is a child" talk is obviously centered around Hornet/Lace ship. I think Lace is clearly intelligent enough and old enough to have such an relationship

[foggy fractal]

experiencing lag in Silksong 😔 ....

[terse wadi]

Yes he is

[spark valve]

uh oh

[flint wadi]

if there was no consequence for being made of silk other than (fragility), why is lace hurting so bad about it

[mint furnace]

Caretaker is either in a room or fucking dies when lace is around in act 3

So he’s pretty much out

[flint wadi]

like it has to matter

[pine garden]

her having "a childs mind" from my perspective is that she has a bratty personality and difficulty resolving internal issues rationally the way adults do

[terse wadi]

Until red memory you can always talk to him

[spark valve]

caretaker is not remotely presented as an unreliable narrator this isn't that complicated

[mint furnace]

She’s not really real to her

[spark valve]

that is not what the word mind means holy shit

[mint furnace]

Self loathing, pretty much

[flint wadi]

^ and being aware enough to hate that about her

[whole estuary]

okay uh
the void trap plot lol

[flint wadi]

herself you mean

[pine garden]

the whole game has her constantly in great resentment and agony over her creation, being intelligent and retrospective enough to understand that her existance is pretty fucked up

[mint furnace]

Yeah

[terse wadi]

For once Tammo, I understand your pain

[spark valve]

not an unreliable narrator in that case

people are just stupid

'she has the mind of a child'
'no uh that means she's sad actually'

[mint furnace]

That’s more so him just not telling the entire truth

Hornet wouldn’t go along with it if he said “WE ARE CREATING A VOID BOMB”

[pine garden]

didn't he say that he fucked up and thought that the void trap would just kill GMS and he didn't except Act 3 to happen?

or am I misremembering

[mint furnace]

Hey, if you wanna believe that one line is her entire character gopherit my friend

[whole estuary]

I do think that was because Lace interfered

[spark valve]

it's not her entire character but it is a fact about her no matter how much you don't like it

[mint furnace]

Lace fucked the entire plan

[whole estuary]

the moss mother journal entry foreshadowing is actually crazy

[terse wadi]

Act 3 is because Lace saved Hornet as her last act of rebellion and GMS is lashing out to protect Lace

[pine garden]

yeah the whole "entire kingdom is being overrun by void" wasn't intentional

[mint furnace]

Gms (cough and Hornet) would be super dead if she didn’t interfere

[flint wadi]

she wouldnt be self loathing just off of being made of silk, clearly there are consequences to that besides being immortal

[pine garden]

I'll give the old man benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't think Hornet would get grabbed by GMS at the last moment

[mint furnace]

I can’t really think of any besides decaying, but I’m sure there are some

[flint wadi]

lace is like a doll

[pine garden]

she loathes the fact that she's "artifical", not a real person, at least by her standards

[flint wadi]

which is how i interpreted it at least

[pine garden]

yeah

[terse wadi]

Doesn't GMS die in every ending but ironically Ensnared silk, consumed in TC, Absorbed in WQ and SoV

[flint wadi]

silk couldnt handle real daughters so she made herself a doll

[pine garden]

also the whole phantom thing. Probably fucked Lace up

[terse wadi]

Tbf, you aren't artificial

[spark valve]

<@&283547423706447872> this probably counts as nsfw idk people are fucking weird

[mint furnace]

Absolute mental flashbang to read

[terse wadi]

I just ignored that part and read the second part

[pine garden]

ah shit is this not allowed in the rules, I should read rules when I enter big servers

[flint wadi]

ensnared silk isnt even a definite conclusion so REALLY she dies in all of them

[whole estuary]

okay second sentinel is cool but maybe not the place to say that

[terse wadi]

Actually nvm my dyslexia read can as can't

[terse wadi]

Perferable outcome

Tired of these floaty pale bitches fucking up my kingdoms

[pine garden]

what was the ensnared silk? The datamined ending?

[terse wadi]

Act 3 transition

[mint furnace]

gms kinda seems to be our first fully real villain

[flint wadi]

soul snare ending

[ancient sinew]

ehrmmmm

[pine garden]

I forget that act 3 transition is technically an ending

[mint furnace]

Radiance is hanging on for dear life on the “my people abandoned me” reason but GMS is just an asshole is every way

[flint wadi]

you get an achievement for it so yeah

[ancient sinew]

… uhhhhhh

[mint furnace]

Lemme hear it

[spark valve]

radiance is pretty evil

[foggy fractal]

no that's the act 2 ending into act 3

the one that was cut was something like the abandoned ending where you seemingly get fused with gms

[pine garden]

Radiance is definitely a villain but to me she seemed more like an animal

[wise beacon]

For the reason that she was literally put to sleep by the weavers

[flint wadi]

she kinda has reasons to be pissed by events of silksong

[mint furnace]

Yeah, she’s just got a smallllll lifeline

[terse wadi]

she's evil but with someone understandable motivations, GMS is just a prick

[ancient sinew]

No, that is… that is a gross misrepresentation of what Rad is doing

[whole estuary]

beta version/variation of WQ methinks

[mint furnace]

They didn’t do that for the shits and giggles though

[terse wadi]

*somewhat

[wise beacon]

They wanted to usurp her

[whole estuary]

Yea Radiance is being an asshole to random innocent bugs out of dying spite

[spark valve]

gms's motivations are about as understandable they're half basically the same

[flint wadi]

all higher beings get fucked by their creations apparently

which is poetic cause they keep making them anyway

[whole estuary]

Mask Maker is constantly passive aggressive to Hornet about that too

[pine garden]

to me Radiance felt like she was like an animal going "ME ME ME GIVE ATTENTION TO ME" to survive and also to fill her inherent higher being desire to dominate other lesser bugs

[wise beacon]

And then they fuck their creations over in response

It's like a cycle

[pine garden]

GMS is definitely more "sentient" than Radiance

[spark valve]

you just made that up

radiance is sentient

[pine garden]

yeah I said thats how I felt like

[proud swan]

literally most gods

[ancient sinew]

Rad’s motivations are not more “understandable” even if we accept the infection was initially born of desperation that is not true by the events of the game nor would it serve as a justification for the senseless torture and eradiaction of an indefinite number of innocent lives

[mint furnace]

No?

[ancient sinew]

No you actually did just make that up

[mint furnace]

GMS 100% got more character fleshing than radiance

[ancient sinew]

Radiance is perfectly aware of what she’s doing

[flint wadi]

you cant exactly dreamnail gms but if she doesnt talk in caps then shes automatically more sapient than radiance

[pine garden]

yeah

[flint wadi]

cause caps talk is emphasized to be instinctual

[spark valve]

hollow knight fans can't read evidence 30892

[spark valve]

that is not true at all

[ancient sinew]

This isn’t true and even if it wws it doesn’t change the fact that Rad is still… very clearly a sentient being

[mint furnace]

Hollow knight fan argues then gives no valid response number infinity

[mint furnace]

They’re both sentient, GMS just seems more in control

[spark valve]

the statement wasn't about how much development they got it was about sentience

[terse wadi]

Radiance isn't a physical being if she's forgotten she ceases to exist PK's pale beacon unintentionally attracted the First Moths, The first Moths tried to actively FORGET her and she was mad about it the sympathy ends there though as she took it out on PK and all the Hallownest bugs rather than the Moths that betrayed her

[whole estuary]

Radiance dreamnail dialogue meshes neatly into an idea I have where beings more intelligent than sapient beings kind of… integer overflow into seeming animalistic again

[mint furnace]

Probably due to being a pale being

And radiance isn’t

[ancient sinew]

Ok we are actually just making shit up now

[ember river]

Is it stated somewhere that Radiance ceases to exist if she's forgotten?

[ancient sinew]

Please provide me with evidence that suggests pale beings are “more sapient” than other higher beings

[ember river]

There's none

[ancient sinew]

What does “more sapient” even mean in this context

[ember river]

I don't think so at least

[mint furnace]

Like people mention radiance speaks in caps

[pine garden]

Okay she's definitely more sapient than I gave her credit for, still talking in ALL CAPS does give off more instinctual vibes

[mint furnace]

Meanwhile pale beings don’t

[ancient sinew]

That is completely irrelevant

[mint furnace]

Pale king, white lady, gms (if she could talk)

[ancient sinew]

Her dialogue is perfectly coherent

[spark valve]

surely it's not like there are dream nail texts from animals to compare this with

[pine garden]

her dialogue uses simple sentences and its in all caps

[terse wadi]

Probably paraphrasing but something along those lines

[ember river]

I thought she spoke in all caps to convey power, as if her thoughts were displayed more loudly

[mint furnace]

Okay then don’t agree, it’s hollow knight

[ancient sinew]

She’s speaking in caps because she’s pissed off not because she’s a mindless animal

[spark valve]

apparently rad is less sapient than a tiktik lmao

[mint furnace]

It’s a theory

[eternal sigil]

I think the implication is that Radiance is sapient and all, but just enraged beyond point of reason

[pine garden]

at the very least she's extremely fucking MAD and SCREAMING CONSTANTLY in her head when we dream dialogue her

[ember river]

Which makes sense since she's made of essence

[eternal sigil]

and has been for a long time

[spark valve]

yes that is the implication

[ancient sinew]

You don’t know what that word means

[whole estuary]

If you’re talking about me I’m talking about a headcanon/general view of fiction and not about just pale beings

[pine garden]

yeah she gives off almost animalistic rage vibes

[ember river]

In any case, why are you even trying to argue the Radiance isn't sapient, why would it be able to grant sentience to the moth tribe if it wasn't sentient in the first place?

[ancient sinew]

This is not reasoning

[mint furnace]

That ain’t the argument

[pine garden]

cause who the fuck is constantly screaming in ALL CAPS in their heads with simple sentences

[eternal sigil]

also while we're talking about higher beings, a theory I cooked up earlier

[mint furnace]

It’s that they seem more like Greek gods to me

[ember river]

What's the argument then

[valid compass]

what are we arguing

[mint furnace]

Still people, but they’re more primal forces

[pine garden]

how "sapient" Radiance was, in comparison to GMS

[eternal sigil]

so most of the ones we have seen seem to have both an associated substance, and a specific associated "client/child" species

[ancient sinew]

Tammo there’s no reason to bother with this shit man let’s just call it a day

[mint furnace]

Pale beings seem just like guys who are also gods

[wise beacon]

Im kinda just watching

[terse wadi]

Classic SS lore moment

[spark valve]

it's funny

[dense bloom]

So would Herra be a child of Gms ?

[spark valve]

yes

[whole estuary]

it was not meant to be I share a headcanon and immediately get assumed to be presenting an argument

[silk dirge]

about why this channel desperately needs job apps dropped in it

[pine garden]

yeah but not a direct blood descendant if thats what youre asking

[flint wadi]

sapiance*
sentience is just basic awareness every living being has

[ember river]

The only thing I'd describe as a primal force is the Void, Higher Beings in general are just very powerful and nigh immortal creatures

[dense bloom]

oh so like Grandchild / grandrandgrandetc.. child

[silk dirge]

like holy shit theres gotta be so much more productive things to be doing than arguing about lore 😭

[eternal sigil]

GMS has silk and the weavers (uplifted from the spider critters)
Radiance has infection and the moths
Pale King has soul and the bugs of Hallownest (maybe some more Wyrm-like patrons before he came to Hallownest but all of that is speculative)

[pine garden]

no, GMS took already existing wild bugs and transformed them into Weavers

[eternal sigil]

My theory is that the White Lady's client species are whatever Greyroot is

[mint furnace]

I remember the days where the hollow knight discord didn’t assault people for ideas and instead debated like normal people

Oh wait those days don’t exist

[foggy fractal]

HAVE YOU EVER ARGUED IN #sk-lore ... WITH YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE ?!

[silk dirge]

do none of any of you have school or university or shit like that

[dense bloom]

oooh aight

[pine garden]

so there isn't direct blood relations between Weavers and GMS, the Weavers felt betrayed when they find out that they're not direct children of hers

[edgy barn]

not until next year

[eternal sigil]

some people think White Lady is the result of one of those things managing to be implanted in a pale being and becoming godly as a result, but I would suggest the opposite

[pine garden]

its literally friday evening

[ember river]

I think Greyroot is more like a member of WL's species than a subject

[valid compass]

broo lmfao

[silk dirge]

in a worse timezone it is

but its noon here

[pine garden]

what timezone are you in if its not friday

[whole estuary]

Yea, I’m not even expecting an apology from them atp lmao

[lethal burrow]

She is the witch of the woods

[ember river]

If anything, White Lady's "subjects" would have been her offspring I'd argue

[spark valve]

you're welcome to modmail to have the channel shut down nobody here gives a fuck what you think

[terse wadi]

It's like mid afternoon here

[neat plank]

what happend to the hollow knight

[eternal sigil]

she's not a higher being and certainly not of pale power

[ember river]

So?

[mint furnace]

It’s strange how she found that as a terrible sin

[valid compass]

i think this works

[ember river]

And seemingly not all wyrms are pale either

[mint furnace]

She has a lot of issues with the family she makes

[silk dirge]

why so aggressive

[eternal sigil]

whereas both in HK and in Silksong it is established that WL is tremendously powerful

[silk dirge]

everyone here needs to chill out

[mint furnace]

Chill out bro

[ancient sinew]

Radiance demonstrates the ability to communicate with other sapient beings manipulate them with shit like false promises to infiltrate their minds and then manage and direct very large quantities of infected she also literally creates an entire tribe of sapient beings idk why on earth one would assume she was not sapient

[pine garden]

oh fuck mb I meant the Weavers felt betrayed not GMS

[ember river]

White Lady is extremely powerful, but pale beings in general are pretty confusing as to their origins

Higher beings as well

[lethal burrow]

what do you even mean

[wise beacon]

Tammo's just aggressive, no idea why but hes been doing that the whole time

[ember river]

I don't know what you were trying to say

[mint furnace]

Oh I did not even catch that I’m talking about first sinner

[terse wadi]

This channel does need to chill sometimes but this is also considered a serious channel for legitimate lore discussion

[wise beacon]

The sample size of 2 doesn't help either

[mint furnace]

Like what’s up with caring about that

[ember river]

3

[wise beacon]

Point is that it's low

[edgy barn]

GMS is one too

[mint furnace]

You were given godlike powers and ascended thought and you get angry?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[pine garden]

that could be true, and also it could be true that by the events of the game she's so filled with rage that its beyond reason and she reverts to a less coherent and intelligent state

[silk dirge]

this channel does have cool discussion sometimes

[ember river]

I mean, we got a total of 6 or so higher beings

[flint wadi]

animal like plants are just a thing in hk's world
and if you can go from a bug to a bug (god), you can probably go from a plant to plant (god) as well

i dont think greyroot is related to WL aside from them both being living wood

[eternal sigil]

True but that also raises the question of what Wyrm's "natural" patrons were, if they existed at all before Hallownest. Also Mr. Mushroom implies that their are multiple Wyrm higher beings, unless all of them are metamorphosed Wyrms

[silk dirge]

but most times ive seen this channel just be people in a fucking war with eachother

[ancient sinew]

She is still doing this during the events of the game

[terse wadi]

in general or in hallownest

[ember river]

Why does he need such a thing

[pine garden]

because what kind of "normal" sentient being is constantly screaming basic kindergarden level sentences in ALL CAPS in their head non stop

[foggy fractal]

Higher beings these words are for you alone my ass theres no ones reading that shit !!!

[ember river]

Why would all gods create a race of their own

[spark valve]

one who has been sealed for a long time and is mad

[whole estuary]

there’s also that her full emotions could be impossible to perceive by mortals/convey into words so the General Vibes become a very simple message

[ember river]

Some do, some don't

[ancient sinew]

That dialogue is coherent

[mint furnace]

There needs to be rules for stuff like this about how you should debate and not argue

[ancient sinew]

She is addressing TK directly she’s also very pissed off

[eternal sigil]

I think there being multiple instances of it existing in some way like that opens the door for others existing within the setting

[mint furnace]

People just throw accusations and get angry and then don’t do the one thing you’re supposed to, being provide counter arguments

[silk dirge]

yeah

[pine garden]

the infection stuff could be just full on auto pilot we dont know. The prophecies the mosskin receive could be just delusion caused by the infection not active intervention by Rad personally

[eternal sigil]

I do not think it is confirmed but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility

[ember river]

The Nightmare Heart seems not to have a subject race either, unless you count Grimm as such, but it's much more of a vessel/avatar than a subject

[wise beacon]

Mostly the void i think

[pine garden]

I never said it wasn't, I said its very simple dialogue, her dialogue comes off kindergaden level

[ember river]

Also Wyrms are higher beings, pale I'm not so sure

[sinful nimbus]

Well no one thinks Radiance isn't stupid

[terse wadi]

Not all HB are creationists

[eternal sigil]

The Nightmare Heart did come to mind and could well be evidence about some gods just taking rather than making subjects

[wise beacon]

That's not really the point

[ember river]

I know, but they seem to be trying to claim that

[eternal sigil]

arguably GMS did both; made the Weavers, then when they crapped out, enthralled lower bugs

[foggy fractal]

why did the radiance infect everybody ? is she stupid ?

[ancient sinew]

idk what this means or why it matters

[terse wadi]

Well that's simply not true

[valid compass]

yes i think this works. intelligence nesseccarily doesnt mean fluency in a language which you dont need

[spark valve]

nh still creates 'subjects' with the grimmkin

[terse wadi]

correct

[pine garden]

why not, wont hurt her to control the world

[ember river]

Those are just members of the troupe

[mint furnace]

I said it earlier, but I think radiance might be like a Greek god and the pale beings are more like regular bugs with godlike power

[ember river]

You can see it in their descriptions

[spark valve]

the grimmkin are projections

[terse wadi]

Only the moths would be targetted if this was about revenge, she's just petty

[ancient sinew]

what the fuck are you talking about now

[wise beacon]

I think their point is that the hgher beings and those affiliated with them usually speak with very flowery language and that it's unusual to see one speaking so plain

[eternal sigil]

the fact that we still have neither a clear image of what exactly a Wyrm is other than it being a thing of note, or indeed what discrete quality "pale" is, makes all of this hard to talk around

[terse wadi]

PB are HB

[mint furnace]

Greek gods are people who represent their fields

[eternal sigil]

yes we have the husk of Pale King before metamorphosis, but that's a sample size of one

[ancient sinew]

She is very very angry

[pine garden]

she's extremely fucking mad, she's lashing the fuck out on the world

[eternal sigil]

not something to extrapolate from

[spark valve]

mask room in the tent, the grimmkin being made of essence, nh being one and all clan and master

[whole estuary]

That doesn’t say anything one way or the other

[terse wadi]

true, still petty

[ember river]

Well, a wyrm is a giant worm with no limbs and foresight

[mint furnace]

For example, Zeus is temperate and quick to anger like a storm

[ancient sinew]

Ok so that’s another thing you just made up

[mint furnace]

Also a fantastic example about what I was talking about earlier lol

[eternal sigil]

I have heard one person speculate that one of the locations mentioned in the Weaver-descendant prison in Cradle might have been related to Blackwyrm, though admittedly circumstantial evidence

[ember river]

"Member of the troupe"
"Hmm, really makes you wonder what these guys are, maybe they're ghosts"

[mint furnace]

What? Greek mythology?

[pine garden]

What? Its well known that Greek gods are extremely petty and unjust

[foggy fractal]

why so small :C

[spark valve]

they're made of nightmare essence they're not bugs

[eternal sigil]

Blackbarren

[ember river]

I'm iffy on the "blackwyrm" being an actual wyrm

[pine garden]

Zeus is fucking EVIL

[mint furnace]

I appreciate the compliment but I didn’t create that religion

[terse wadi]

We'll learn about Black wyrm one day Trust

[whole estuary]

I mean on whether the troupe themselves are projections, physical, or some evil secret third thing(I am here)

[mint furnace]

They are predictable and they have personalities that reflect their domains

[eternal sigil]

also speculated that the City of Steel might be related to whatever civilization/race/species Jinn is related to, the Makers

[spark valve]

just for you

[mint furnace]

That’s not something I “made up”

[foggy fractal]

thanks Tammo

[ancient sinew]

The bizzarre conclusion that radiance is similar to greek gods as she represents a “domain” whereas pale beings are simply “normal” bugs with magic powers

[wise beacon]

Like if they're made by the heart or not?

[foggy fractal]

very cool balls they've strung up on that device thingamajig

[mint furnace]

it’s called theory crafting

[ember river]

Either way, not all goods necessarily create their own race of worshippers, for all we know higher beings really only want to be worshipped in one way or another

[ancient sinew]

ok so I know reading is hard

[eternal sigil]

and if these are indeed other civilizations, what exactly was it meant when Hallownest was the "last and only civilization": just a statement of propaganda, a boast, or meaning that "civilization" meant something different to Pale King than the average bug-god kingdom?

[mint furnace]

I’m bouncing off of an earlier convo I found interesting

Again, can we just be nice?

[pine garden]

100% cap. PK was capping here

[terse wadi]

PB are HB, but not all HB are PB

[spark valve]

it's figurative pk is saying that hallownest is special and will endure forever while other 'false' civilizations crumble

[eternal sigil]

the latter could well be onto something if we take the notion that Hallownest was unnaturally functional/less brutal than the average bug theocracy, given the state of Pharloom

[mint furnace]

Why do we respond to any comment you disagree with by saying “fuck you” in various ways

[wise beacon]

Making connections isn't bizarre just because they think differently lol

[eternal sigil]

however I think people are reading too much into that too

[mint furnace]

As Mike Tyson once said being behind a screen has made yall comfortable insulting people without getting punched in the face

[pine garden]

if we're being generous to PK. That could be taken as PK having very high standards for a "civilized kingdom". And other kingdoms like Pharloom didn't make the cut

[eternal sigil]

not enough data

[flint wadi]

why are you on their case so much lol who hurt you

[ember river]

Think of it this way
If Hallownest lasts forever, actually for all eternity, every other kingdom will have crumbled to dust

[ancient sinew]

It is bizarre because the conclusion is baseless nonsense

[pine garden]

to him those were uncivilized shitholes, and unworthy of the title of civilization

[eternal sigil]

fair enough

[whole estuary]

You can say “I disagree” without insulting people

[ember river]

The Pale King wrote the ending to the story before he ever wrote the main plot

[mint furnace]

EXACTLY

[ember river]

That's why you find so many mentions of the last kingdom

[wise beacon]

They came to a conclusion based off of a line of thinking and comparing them to greek gods isn't that weird since a god in a game is likely going to resemble some religions forms of gods in some way shape or form

[mint furnace]

WHERE DID BASIC MANNERS GO

[terse wadi]

5000 IQ play

[flint wadi]

genuine "STOP HAVING FUN"

god forbid people try to read into media

[eternal sigil]

This is my suspicion/hunch/headcanon at this point, maybe with some other wrinkles. If for example the "union of wyrm and root" was unnatural among the standard of higher beings (two of them ruling together rather than the dominion of one), that might set Hallownest apart from the rest

[pine garden]

and to be fair, there would've been good chances hallownest would've been one of the last remaining civilizations if Pharloom is anything to go by

[ancient sinew]

If you have an issue with my tone you can modmail it I’m not really interested in discussing that further

[spark valve]

or just ping them

[foggy fractal]

what if we had modmail but for modifications to the game instead

[mint furnace]

I wasn’t even creating a moss bag 4 hour lore video, I just said “hey these relate, that’s neat”

[wise beacon]

Its based off the fact that greek gods usually were associated with certain traits and aspects, much like how the radiance is directly associated with dreams

[ember river]

Honestly I completely get crawfather, some theories really have no base and are just random thoughts mashed together

[flint wadi]

its not even tone its shutting down discussion because it goes outside of the realm of what YOU, yes YOU, consider relevant

[pine garden]

yeah and what's wrong with that? Its fun to talk about it still

[ancient sinew]

But Radiance does not represent the domain of dreams and that association doesn’t really imply that anyways

[pine garden]

the point of this channel is to discuss things

[ember river]

And it ends up going off tangent and calling a god that gave sentience non-sentient for whatever reason

[eternal sigil]

Yeah GMS' construction was not very sustainable for strange reasons. The Weavers not being able to reliably reproduce is a very notable flaw, and it seems that the system flat out doesn't work long term when attempted to be enforced on "lower" bugs which are less innately attuned to Silk and its uses

[mint furnace]

I don’t care, it’s just even though you’re on the internet in a guise of anonymity it doesn’t mean you need to be rude

[silk dirge]

does no one in this channel have respectful debate skills holy shit

[mint furnace]

But hey, keep on keeping on that way if you want

[ember river]

Welcome to the internet

[eternal sigil]

And what was the point of it all? To just have followers continually sing to/venerate GMS?

[whole estuary]

There definitely are domain-associated gods and gods that run domains, I don’t know if that’s necessarily a split that makes pale beings a separate distinction but it’s a valid view

[eternal sigil]

I suppose Hallownest might have been similar, some say that basically wyrms/gods rule for the sake of rulership

[terse wadi]

Some HB do have egos

[pine garden]

in the OG HK Rad was obviously associated with dreams, Nightmare heart with nightmares, the Shade Lord with the Void and such

[spark valve]

the point of the bugs other than the weavers was the opposite gms herself didn't do that, it was the weavers recruiting them to the citadel to keep gms asleep

[flint wadi]

some lol

[pine garden]

you could stretch it and say that PK was associated with sentience or foresight

[ancient sinew]

The only HB that could reasonably be applied to is NMH and ig LoS, if anything the distinction between pale beings and other HBs is that they’re soul related

[flint wadi]

try most of them

[terse wadi]

What ego does Unn have

[whole estuary]

unn and fayforn my goats 🔥 🔥

[ember river]

The way I see it is they're beings from the dream realm, and the same way physical bugs can access it and influence it, these dream-bugs can affect the physical world as well

[spark valve]

fayforn isn't a hb

[ember river]

That's what it looks like, yes

[flint wadi]

unn is the exception

unn's power also faded

[silk dirge]

like if someones theory is baseless the correct thing to do would be to post your reasons why you think its incorrect respectfully and not in an aggressive tone

this goes for everyone

[wise beacon]

Radiance is a being that exists only in dreams, has her power in dreams, and the people associated with her focus on the concept of dreams and memories. This can literally just be drawn to the simple connection that gods are associated with things. It's not a logical leap, it's an observation and a common trait in human religions and cultures

[foggy fractal]

raghhh finall all sprites document back up

[ancient sinew]

holy yap are we still going on about this

[eternal sigil]

Going off of what the Conductor had to say about it I thought that there was an element of replacement of the Weavers from the system itself, even if the Weavers themselves seem to have tried to usher themselves out once they couldn't stand GMS' tyranny any more

[ember river]

But you've gotta understand that it gets tiring after a while, especially when extremely basic plot points that were agreed upon already are shaken

[eternal sigil]

perhaps that was misinterpreted

[mint furnace]

That excuses nothing

[silk dirge]

yeah but thats not an excuse to be super aggressive

[whole estuary]

NMH, Radiance, and LoS gods are domain gods

GMS is debatably a domain god, since she is the source of all Silk

Pale King is a god who runs a territory. Unn and Fayforn are also debatably such, I’m more iffy on Fayforn because the cold is kind of out of nowhere

[terse wadi]

If I were to speculate you have caught them at a bad time and they've reached the end of their patience about a particular topic but idk, I'm not a mind reader

[mint furnace]

If you are in a lore channel, expect to correct people

[spark valve]

the weavers built the citadel and started recruiting (read: enslaving) bugs to keep her asleep
at some point conductors took over from them, and kept doing the same shit

[wise beacon]

You are literally the person going "this is nonsense" and they are explaining why it's not. Want no part in it? Start another conversation or leave

[mint furnace]

You can be nice in doing so

[wise beacon]

Take your pick

[ancient sinew]

domain god is not a thing

[mint furnace]

If you have nothing nice to say or nothing to add there’s not much reason to say it

[spark valve]

domain god is meaningless anyways

[foggy fractal]

who

[mint furnace]

It is in Greek mythology, and I was pointing out there could be a connection

That is all

[ancient sinew]

There isn’t

Now you know

[eternal sigil]

This kind of thing is what I was getting at with "associated substances"; whether those are a separate thing, immanent to a given "domain", or something else remains to be seen but there's enough examples that there seems to be a pattern, enough even so that this is alluded to in-game (Lifeblood/Plasmium/lifeseed)

[mint furnace]

You could just say “I disagree, but neat” then not comment further

[flint wadi]

oh my god bruh

[whole estuary]

“nuh uh”

[mint furnace]

Instead of saying “what the fuck are you talking about”

[ember river]

Even then the only other realm we know of is the dream realm and that's still clearly not wholly dominated by the Radiance

[ancient sinew]

Genuinely what the fuck are you still talking about

[wise beacon]

You are saying that like it's a fact when we literally could not tell whether there is a connection or not because we aren't team cherry

[ember river]

And is also wholly different from what greek gods have

[indigo coral]

wtf r u saying

[silk dirge]

when im working at the boardwalk when clueless guests come in it can be annoying to explain everything to them but its part of my job to do so

same here

[foggy fractal]

ok guys I have to confess... when I said all sprites document... it seems like it wasn't actually all sprites.... they're still organizing stuff...

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[ember river]

Yeah there's olympus and hades, but those are just heaven and hell, and apparently reachable by just climbing or going down

[mint furnace]

I brought up something and crawfatherfan responded with that instead of literally anything else

[pine garden]

lore channels of any media series have insufferable people who smell their farts all the time and believe their version of the lore are the official ones

[whole estuary]

not everyone has been buried in the lore for 7 years

[ember river]

I'd say norse mythology has realms with more in common to HK's than whatever you may pry from GReek mythology

[foggy fractal]

mmm buried in the lore like a blanket

[whole estuary]

Also definitely agreed there

[mint furnace]

Their domains are reflections of their personalities

[flint wadi]

fayforn being god of the mountain is fun and all but the game kinda treats them as just a beast

[mint furnace]

Or vice versa rather

[ember river]

Source, yes source of greek mythology

[eternal sigil]

If we're talking about inspirations from Greek myth, I don't think anything direct is lifted (if anything something that Hallownest reminded me a lot was ancient Mesopotamian concepts/vibes surrounding divine kingship), however I think there are quite possibly inspirations from real world folklore. The two most obvious ones coming to mind in Silksong are the "white stag hunt" myth motif being lifted directly for the Verdant Princes, and the Bellhart shaman almost certainly being a reference to Diogenes of Sinope.

[flint wadi]

but then again

[terse wadi]

Yeah I'd believe that

[ancient sinew]

There is no merit in comparing HK deities to irl ones

[flint wadi]

mt fay

[ancient sinew]

This is a nothing argument

Domain god is a meaningless made up term

[pine garden]

just stfu and let us talk if you're not gonna add anything of substance to the conversation

[mint furnace]

Just… say you disagree and drop it man

[ember river]

Especially since they behave nothing alike and abide by no similar rules whatsoever

[whole estuary]

Mask maker speaks about her in a way implying to me that she’s a higher being but it is definitely dubious

[ember river]

It can be wise without being a higher being

[flint wadi]

i mean the mountain IS named in their name but it could be vise versa

[ember river]

Higher beings are a big deal

[ancient sinew]

There is nothing implying the Fayforn is a HB

[whole estuary]

she’s been around a long time as per Mask Maker

[ember river]

Even Unn basically went to sleep and created an entire ecosystem

[spark valve]

that doesn't make it a god

[ember river]

So has bardoon

[terse wadi]

You need specific abilities that no normal bug could obtain to be a HB as far as I understand it

[silk dirge]

team cherry was no doubt inspired by irl gods but that point i agree trying to directly compare them is stupid

[pine garden]

is Fayforn the bird that gives double jump?

[ember river]

Higher Beings are insanely powerful