sk-lore

[tropic arrow]

Not every bug in the Citadel that you fight is a dead bug that is reanimated with Silk pretty sure

I am pretty sure some of them are just alive

[terse wadi]

it does but we're not exactly sure what they intended to achieve and if they achieved it

[tropic arrow]

we know they achieved it, Hornet's hunter journal entry notes that they extended people's lives with it

[terse wadi]

There's no enemies until you meet Lace and GMS summons enemies it's all just corpses

I noticed it on future playthroughs

[left oyster]

given she's half pale being and pale beings have innate soul power thing because of what we know from how the kingsoul works

i think she's just that girl and makes it herself

[tropic arrow]

And there are still enemies in act 3. No one's haunted anymore, though they can get void corrupted. There's still people. Sure you can say that's gameplay convenience/mechanics, but I prefer to bridge those gaps whenever possible.

[terse wadi]

I mean, she can

[terse wadi]

They're void haunted now

[tropic arrow]

Also all the pilgrims getting in too

And we also know from, you know, Trobbio, and Gourmand and what not, that there are living people in the Citadel. I doubt most are just dead.

[silk dirge]

the greatest question is how sherma gets into the citadel

[terse wadi]

All the bugs with citadel crests on their face were def dead till we showed up

[silk dirge]

sherma still appears in the hot spring if you go through phantom

[teal drift]

Sherma stuns everyone with his music

[alpine cipher]

is the boss of the whiteward related to the one conductor that got a "last surgery" that we can listen from those audio tube thingies?

[tropic arrow]

yeah and I disagree with that

[tropic arrow]

seemingly yes

[terse wadi]

Yuh

[teal drift]

I think a lot were alive when we showed up, just possessed

Guys, making a Silksong recipe:

Mossberry = Green Grapes, Green Peppercorns?

Rasher = Bacon or thinly sliced pork

Pickled Maggot = Bruh I dunno

Crustnut = Chinese Chestnut?

Vintage Nectar = Honey? Straight up alcohol?

And it has to be a gelatin, so uh.... jesus.

[terse wadi]

There's living bugs but all the ones native to there I.E not pilgrims or other outside bugs seemed to be dead based on the fact you fight nothing and it's just a pile of corpses until you encounter lace and they're reanimated

[terse wadi]

Who's the great Gourmand eating this

[teal drift]

Gordon Ramsay

[terse wadi]

idk something gross pickled

[teal drift]

someone suggested cardamom for crustnuts but imo I think the prickliness is more important

[exotic trellis]

Eggs

[tiny socket]

Maggots are a real thing

[teal drift]

and Chinese Chestnut is the plainest one I can think of

[tiny socket]

The options right there

[teal drift]

yeah bro i couldn't commit myself that hard to the bit.

[tropic arrow]

that doesn't mean everything everywhere is dead. Again, there clearly are living bugs, so I think there are living ones with veils too.

[terse wadi]

But MuckMaggots aren't

[still widget]

Im the only one impressed by the technology used in the citadel?

[tropic arrow]

No

[terse wadi]

And I disagree

[teal drift]

we literally see new living pilgrims arriving in so I'd assume some of the people in the citadel are living. Also they were sentient enough to write choral commandments about Hornet's capture.

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

It don't even work 😭 🙏

[tropic arrow]

We all will forever wonder what Fourth Chorus is made out of to lay in lava for who knows how long and have only some melted stone stuck to it as proof it was ever in lava

[terse wadi]

Seems pointless to argue, we've established our stances

[teal drift]

tbh silksong lava seems to be weak as hell

that's the problem with lava in games, irl you just get melted getting near that shit

[tropic arrow]

or Fourth Chorus is just, LITERALLY, built different

[teal drift]

adamantium fourth chorus

[terse wadi]

idk enough about the haunting to know if it can mind controll people to that extent

[terse wadi]

Curse of banishing

[tropic arrow]

deep docks workers are wearing some sort of protective suit

[teal drift]

my argument is that they're possessed but still also doing their jobs, indicating they're kinda alive beyond the possession

[terse wadi]

What if Hornet is just belt different

[tropic arrow]

It's just hard to see in game

[terse wadi]

*built

[alpine cipher]

cucumber seeds KINDA look like maggots but i dont think thats really an option tbf

[teal drift]

debating if I make it a pickled meat or something maggoty in texture

[terse wadi]

I mean, like, you just making this monstrocity for fun? or is someone eating it

[foggy fractal]

me

[kindred verge]

you can buy mealworms raised for human consumption

[old grotto]

Could plasmium be more dangerous then the infection?

[terse wadi]

Need more info

[teal drift]

infection is sourced in the dream realm and can attack everyone all at once, Lifeblood is spatially locked

[teal drift]

Ideally I get the ingredients for ~20 bucks (or use the ingredients for other things later) to see how good tasting I can get it.

[terse wadi]

What makes this different from HK Lifeblood, is it some dangerous mutation? why does it spread so quickly, why does it infect and mutate local wildlife, lots to answer and few of them

[kindred verge]

however it is unclear how much lifeblood/plasmium is directed centrally like the Infection, so it could be harder to counter

[teal drift]

we had an alchemist shoving it into soil and feeding it to wildlife

[tropic arrow]

no one goes around injecting lifeblood to the things around during the events of HK

[terse wadi]

LBB appear out of nowhere in a dlc to spread it in a dream

[teal drift]

but its noticeably a pretty restricted presence in the dream and has to be summoned in

[tropic arrow]

that seems like a crucial difference

[teal drift]

what does lifeblood taste like?

[kindred verge]

blue raspberry

[terse wadi]

feels like there's still plenty to seek answers for if comparing the two

[terse wadi]

sweet, accroding to hunter iirc

*According

[old grotto]

I'm just thinking maybe Joni was trapped away because the pale king realised the dangers of lifeblood, as well as the lifeblood door in the abyss.

Why would it be in the abyss in the first place if not to cast it away?

[kindred verge]

Imagine a kingdom where there's no lifeblood taboo and the higher-ups hoard and use it constantly

[terse wadi]

Godseeker never summoned LBB it snuck in, but I do agree unless it can actively move and shows more signs of godhood we cannot conclude it's a HB it's on the maybe list for now, possibly indefinantly

[teal drift]

Why does corn grow in gigantic fields in iowa but only gross in scattered outcroppings outside of tose fields

[terse wadi]

Because mass production and GMO

[silk dirge]

because iowa isnt a real place

[teal drift]

Lifeblood was locked up in godhome, but the more powerful the knight got, it became able to let it in?

[terse wadi]

Every Banana you've likely ever consumed is a clone

[still widget]

No one is wandering how sherma got into the citadel? 😭

[teal drift]

godhome summons every moderately powerful presence in hallownest to play, but they probably locked up lifeblood in that one corner. The knight lets it free.

[alpine cipher]

maybe the worms helped spread the plasmium

[teal drift]

the last judge liked sherma's vibes and judged him as innocent

[terse wadi]

There's no implication GS even knows it's there

Honestly, tracks

[kindred verge]

Lifeblood keeps seeping in the edges just like Void

[teal drift]

yeah thats the vibe I got too

it seeps into godhome only when the Knight lets it free from wherever was containing it

[terse wadi]

Can we get some peace and quiet without a dangerous fluid seeping into the pours of the kingdom we're in

[teal drift]

worms in real life poop fertilizer so maybe the wormways is particularly fertile idk

[tropic arrow]

I feel like I heard this story before, but with silk instead of lifeblood

Wait a minute

[kindred verge]

like a song...of silk

[terse wadi]

eh, I personally think he was just chilling in his own lil corner and TK just found it

[tropic arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[teal drift]

lifeblood seems to be a semi-manipulable divine substance that also has a mind of its own, just like silk/soul/essence/void

[terse wadi]

It being "locked up" is a gameplay mechanic

[alpine cipher]

maybe plasmium works like a parasite that uses hosts to propagate? i think i may be reaching too hard tbh

[terse wadi]

It's clearly lifeblood, the question is what makes Plasmium different

[teal drift]

I think lifeblood being behind a literal VIP door is probably somewhat relevant to the lore, and not just a gameplay consideration.

I don't think there is a difference besides no one experimenting with lifeblood in present day hallownest

[terse wadi]

I suppose one could see it that way, but imo earning lifeblood to use in pantheons by doing them at their hardest difficulty tracks with video game rewards

[terse wadi]

But if all that was being done was seeding it in wormways it likely would have ended up just like how it is in Hallownest

[teal drift]

xylotol becomes a literal lifeblood core intentionally trying to spread it as much as possible, nothing like that happens in Hallownest

well, besides that dumb dead child

[terse wadi]

Okay, but he's cray cray

I don't listen to Cray cray people

[teal drift]

I think lifeblood, like soul or essence or void, has to be intentionally manipulated to start being an issue, otherwise it kinda stays doing its own thing

so if Elderbug started growing that zaza in Dirtmouth and fed it to anyone passing through, I think we'd get a similar situation in HK

[terse wadi]

I could see that with soul and essence but Void doesn't need to be manipulated to be an issue, it's very retaliatory just being in it's presence aggravates it

[teal drift]

Void attacks for two reasons: you come up to it and try to swim in it, or you summon it to do your bidding and it goes crazy

[terse wadi]

Maybe, but like many "plants" strains can exist

[teal drift]

perhaps, but I think its the same thing. Not much evidence for it considering Xylotol is an unreliable asf narrator and hornet doesn't seem to care much.

[terse wadi]

Void doesn't like the touch, I understand void

[terse wadi]

Correct

[teal drift]

its not void's fault that it's the only way to kill a god without perpetuating a cycle of domination.

[edgy stone]

Itd be interesting if xylotols master comes into play in some sort of lifeblood dlc

[teal drift]

imagine being void, every 1000 years someone summons you to kill yet another god and you grudgingly oblige because that's your whole thing.

[edgy stone]

Hes the lifeblood researcher bug right

[terse wadi]

yeah

[teal drift]

I think if we ever do get a 3rd game, lifeblood and its lore will be a big presence.

but that's like 15 years from now or never

[edgy stone]

With silksongs act progression I really think the dlcs should be additional acts and not just melded into the game

[terse wadi]

Tbh, the void just does what TK wants now

[silk dirge]

i feel like dlcs will be separate areas

[edgy stone]

I think itd be significantly cooler to get more and more postgame

[teal drift]

bro wants the DLCs to take 20 years

[silk dirge]

honestly i really hope they dont do a rebuilding pharloom dlc

i love the story of the game

[terse wadi]

idk about acts maybe an act 4 called epilouge or some of it being mixed in the other acts

[edgy stone]

An act 4 would be cool with the steel masters and lifeblood

[teal drift]

I like where it ends a lot and doing an epilogue where you get treacly dialogue from every NPC doesn't appeal to me. Also if they wanted to do it they would have included it anyways.

[silk dirge]

but like having shit after credits would kinda be against the point

like its up to your imagination what hornet does

[gleaming ruin]

||golden corspe located at the edge of pharloom, has this been discussed already? it is very obscured in the background effects. looks like a conductor if you jump up and get a better viewing angle.||

[silk dirge]

you dont need to have a dlc about it

[terse wadi]

You also have to consider they halted their plans to continue development and make DLC instead so they very much could have planned to include it

[teal drift]

I think it'll be like HK, where the DLCs are additional questlines about external forces that elaborate on lore or add an alternate ending, but don't change the main story.

[silk dirge]

yeah

[terse wadi]

That's literally how act 3 is fym

[teal drift]

pre-act 3 ends on a cliffhanger, not a natural ending point for the story

[silk dirge]

ok but like after completing a story

its kinda hard to explain

but the end of act 3 is an ending off point

[terse wadi]

They said shit after the credits

[teal drift]

Act 4: Hornet and Lace come up from the abyss and the whole place is lifeblood.

[terse wadi]

Speaking of cliffhangers fuck the one from ETV

so true

Can't have normal enemies in pharloom

[teal drift]

I think if they wanted to give us closure on the other bugs they'd give us post credits scenes or the classic "screenshots of after game events"

[terse wadi]

Haunted, voided now lifeblodded

[teal drift]

Make team cherry spend another 3 years on Silksong DLC to add a lifeblood act 4.

[terse wadi]

Next they'll be toxic or some shit

[edgy stone]

This is worth it

But make only willem work on jt

Force him to do both the code and art

[terse wadi]

Personally, I want Act 4 to be the final DLC the big last hoorah like Godhome was for HK

[edgy stone]

I mean we at least get 9 acts

As act 9 is the silk ball run

[terse wadi]

He's not incapable, the other two are just better at them individually

Nice Jojo reference

To the best part too

[teal drift]

I'm still curious if they'll just bring the godseeker back wholly or if they'll come up with a different justification for boss rush mode.

[edgy stone]

Can he draw? I thought ari was it fully for ss and hk

[edgy stone]

I didnt mention nothing about no lions

[terse wadi]

I think a different narrative option

[terse wadi]

It's okay to have a different opinion even if it's WRONG

[edgy stone]

Gappy mogs

[terse wadi]

Yeah, he can, he does some concept arm

[teal drift]

I think using the song of dream-diving on GMS would be a fun way to fight everything, given that she's the one possessing 95% of the boss enemies.

[terse wadi]

*art

[edgy stone]

I think itd make more sense for hornet to use the memory song onherself

[terse wadi]

GS has literally no reason to leave Hallownest there's like 4-7 HB there

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[teal drift]

I'm excited for Grander Mother Silk bossfight

[terse wadi]

People always speculated about a silk refights

[edgy stone]

I hope its not just abs rad where its new patterns

[teal drift]

Tbh Nuu dreamdiving is the real option we're not examining

[edgy stone]

Give silk like a 2nd form

Make her silk go gold

[terse wadi]

Super Saiyan silk

[teal drift]

Who else is on the roster for high level difficulty DLC fights?

Obviously GMS, and I don't think Lace will get yet another alt, but maybe a Lost Hornet fight or something would be cool.

[edgy stone]

Phantom for sure

[terse wadi]

Ahtal-Ka, Silksong edition

[edgy stone]

I think phantom should get like an embroidered phantom fight

[ionic palm]

Phantom and Lace duo boss would be kinda peak

[lethal burrow]

what do you mean by "high-level DLC fight" exactly

[edgy stone]

I think itd be a really cool name for it

[teal drift]

what PV and Absrad are to their original bosses

[terse wadi]

Second Sentinel but one of his friends revives mid fight

[lethal burrow]

oh ok

[edgy stone]

Do we still fight them in a box

[teal drift]

but i also think they may add dream variants like we got with the HK bosses

[terse wadi]

yes

[edgy stone]

Also is there any lore on 2nd Sentinel and the nailmaster

[terse wadi]

Plinly or pintress

[teal drift]

tbh, Enraged Conchflies but its Both of them and they're both just as fast.

[edgy stone]

2nd sentinel is certainly based on one of pintress fallen sisters right?

They share multiple of the same attacks

[teal drift]

Seamstress Pinstress Duo battle is a shoe in if we do a godmaster DLC

[ionic palm]

It could be, they have the same X slash attack

[fair zealot]

please please please like third chorus or smth that actually uses its arms to attack instead of just one at a time 😭

[teal drift]

guys: are the sisters all stilken, or was the dead one simply dressed as a stilken

[edgy stone]

We know the citadel has done something similar with the clockwork dancers

[lethal burrow]

Which sisters

[teal drift]

I actually really expected a First/Second/Third chorus rematch when i was in the underworks

[terse wadi]

Mayhaps, or perhaps the pin arts are taught in the citadel and they share the same source or teacher

[fair zealot]

they all have that nose thing

[teal drift]

Fourth Chorus seemed like a boss that would really naturally lend itself to a rematch, and there were literally 3 of them hanging in the underworks. Why no rematch.

[ionic palm]

4th Chorus is definitely getting a rematch in a DLC later on

[teal drift]

Lugioli X Gorumand bossfight.

Gourmand and Mergwin would actually be a really funny bossfight. Probably very similar to godtamer if they ever made it.

[terse wadi]

The only sisters we know of are seamstress and the dead one next to wreath of purity can't speak for the others

[lethal burrow]

fourth chorus where it actually attacks you with more than one arm at a time

[terse wadi]

same

[edgy stone]

Makes sense, its literally just mantis lords

[terse wadi]

crazy, way too hop

*op

[lethal burrow]

it is pretty hop

[teal drift]

i think fourth chorus rematch is a shoe in for boss DLC

[fair zealot]

chat i have a lore question

[visual glacier]

what

[edgy stone]

Wrong channel

[teal drift]

Me when the Third Chorus kicks in

[lethal burrow]

Speak and be heard

[fair zealot]

why are there underworkers so high up in the citadel at the beginning of act 3

like shouldn't they be in the underworks

[still siren]

What’s up with the bells? There are a lot of them. Makes me think they are like the bones in the marrow from all the countless pilgrims but Sherma prevents a pilgrim from succumbing to the silk. I kind of assumed the bugs of pharloom worshipped the silk entity but is pharloom just a holy city or what?

[teal drift]

where on the map?

[lethal burrow]

You mean before you re-enter the map properly

[terse wadi]

Lore in my #sk-lore ?

[fair zealot]

yeah

[lethal burrow]

like the beginning enemy gauntlet

[terse wadi]

Banned

[edgy stone]

Preposterous

[ionic palm]

What if 4th Chorus rematch had a dreamshield and floated around, there was no floor, and it became a red bug named Markoth🤔

[lethal burrow]

This is actually a very good question

[teal drift]

I am curious why they chose bells specifically as their aesthetic

[terse wadi]

The citadel is a holy city

[cloud mesa]

has anyone figured out how lifeblood is related to void yet?

[fair zealot]

bells are a very easy way to make music essentially

[teal drift]

my best guess for the underworkers thing is that they automatically set out to repair citadel stuff

[terse wadi]

surprisingly common when religion is involed both irl and in videogames

[teal drift]

Imo there was a god of lifeblood who was cast into the void sometime during the Hallownest timeline. There's not too much material to speculate with though.

[fair zealot]

i guess yeah since they kinda are in like a "backstage" part of the citadel

[lethal burrow]

Wind instruments are magic, percussion is strength, and string instruments are dexterity.

[teal drift]

So the lifeblood core area would be analogous to GMS' cocoon in act 3.

[terse wadi]

Their job to clean the underside and keep it running just look at Loam

[cloud mesa]

i need moss bag to make a lifeblood video so i can know what to think about it

[teal drift]

I mean they're repair workers in general, so them setting out to repair makes sense to me.

[still siren]

Is music only really a theme because the silk entity’s influence can be drowned out with other music like how hornet can stun enemies?

[terse wadi]

Have you tried forming your own opinion

[cloud mesa]

i couldn’t crack it

[teal drift]

music seems to keep GMS asleep so ig they built their religion around making music with bells/strings/singing

[still siren]

Is there a correlation I thought the white king just locked it away in the abyss

[fair zealot]

whatever spell is lulling gms to sleep is sustained by music

[teal drift]

music seems to keep GMS asleep so ig they built their religion around making music with bells/strings/singing

[terse wadi]

I think they just wanted an excuse to create banger music

[lethal burrow]

... how did nobody think about that?

It's been like seven years. I've never heard that.

[ionic palm]

Maybe the three part melody is what keeps her sealed?

[lethal burrow]

Why does it lead directly to her then?

With the elevator

[still siren]

I wasn’t putting forward the theory I was just asking if there was evidence of a correlation beyond that

[teal drift]

3fold melody indicates you are a citadel higher up and grants you access to the cradle imo

[ionic palm]

[terse wadi]

Only someone strong enough to get the melody can fight her idk

[terse wadi]

probably

[teal drift]

besides a lifeblood entity being sealed in the void we have no real evidence

[lethal burrow]

we know basically nothing about life blood beyond the fact that it seems to be mostly blue i think and that it's sort of like the infection but more physical than mental.

[teal drift]

I think the 3 fold melody might be kinda like the nuclear codes lmao. Everyone has to come together to open up the GMS silo.

[still siren]

Pilgrims don’t use the bellways so those were probably the weavers? Imagining a weaver riding a bell beast is a funny mental image

[cloud mesa]

lifeblood can blend into void more than other things

[ionic palm]

That does make sense, the melodies are not possible for a regular bug to achieve

And they can also only be played with the Needolin which requires Silk

[lethal burrow]

that's very funny because that's the best theory I've heard on why it's there lol

[teal drift]

Essence is the stuff of mind, Lifeblood the stuff of body. Soul is the stuff of self. I guess it's sorta like id/ego/superego.

[teal drift]

The pilgrim in the bellway says people used to use carriages in them. I think they're pretty much like anthill tunnels, windy as hell and hard to navigate. The reason we can't use them is we'd get lost, but bellbeast has superinstincts.

[cloud mesa]

also i don’t think there’s any void bugs in the worm ways in act 3

[teal drift]

I think that's right, they're too preoccupied.

Tbh maybe pale king shoulda used lifeblood to stop the infection.

Immortal zombies all over the land.

[ionic palm]

So basically the regular infection but everyone is blue now

[lethal burrow]

trading out Fanta for blue gushers

[ionic palm]

Instead of the Radiance you fight that one blob from Monsters vs. Aliens

[cloud mesa]

pk should of fought the radiance head on instead of the dreamer scheme

[teal drift]

wait crap hold on a second. You know how essence is red and lifeblood is blue, but the infection is orange in the real world? Maybe the infection is radiance piggybacking off of lifeblood and using it to infect people beyond just attacking through dreams.

[kindred verge]

red+blue is purple

[cloud mesa]

ooooo

[lethal burrow]

only grimm essence is red

[still siren]

It is funny that the way to unlock the lifeblood door in hallownest is if there is an adequate amount at the entrance. If the white king sealed it the idea of just letting it all out if enough leaks through is silly

[teal drift]

wait crap i got basic color theory wrong lmao

[teal drift]

no the stuff from the dream trees and dream warriors is red too

[cloud mesa]

i like the idea of radiance piggybacking off of lifeblood

that makes sense

[teal drift]

the radiance is yellow coded now to make my theory work

[lethal burrow]

Who says they can leak out?

[still siren]

I can get down with that

[lethal burrow]

The pale king isn't known for making plans with counter measures in case something goes wrong

[kindred verge]

yellow plus blue is green

[teal drift]

imagining hornet noscoping Joni

[lethal burrow]

it depends if we're doing paint or light when mixing colours

[cloud mesa]

does this hunter journal entey imply other lifeblood infections besides joni?

[still siren]

Well I just meant like the door opens if there is a lot outside so the idea behind the door is like if this doesn’t keep it in then we’ll just let it out

[cloud mesa]

because joni wasn’t rlly an a a abberation

[teal drift]

if any old alchemist or cultist can trigger a lifeblood crisis, it probably happened more than once

tbh it doesn't make sense to me why the infection is orange when that color isn't really radiance-coded

[cloud mesa]

lifeblood outbreaks don’t have that dream voodoo so i imagine theyre pretty easy to quarantine

[ionic palm]

Pale King after the vessel raised with the sole purpose of saving the kingdom has an idea instilled to save the kingdom:

[cloud mesa]

the infection is airborne tho, is lifeblood infection also airborne?

[kindred verge]

the infection isn't exactly airborne, unless I'm misremembering

[teal drift]

it like, kinda is? it's a bit unclear

[cloud mesa]

there’s a hunter journal entry that says that isn’t it

[teal drift]

to me it seemed like infection was airborn + mental

[ionic palm]

Yeah infection is a result of the Radiance attempting to exert influence

And the more bugs try to fight it the worse it gets

[steady prawn]

can weavers have children normally? it seems all the weavers might be directly related to GMS excluding hornet also there arent any male weavers

[teal drift]

Weavers seem to be only chicks and all their spawn are like half/quarter/eigth weaver. There also is some mysterious "painful" element to them having kids.

[still siren]

There is a orange haze in the infected crossroads which made me think of clouds of spores but if it says it explicitly in the hunters journal it isn’t I’ll defer to that

[terse wadi]

that's not really relevant, it's retaliation

[terse wadi]

infertility rate 90%

[teal drift]

so I'd assume all weavers are ones elevated directly by GMS as of now, and they just live an incredibly long time.

[terse wadi]

Hornet isn't

[teal drift]

Idk how to even respond to that considering we all know what hornet's deal is

[cloud mesa]

found it!

[steady prawn]

hornet is a special case

[cloud mesa]

Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it.

[teal drift]

hornet is possibly the most obvious clearly not 100% weaver of all time

[steady prawn]

shes part god

[cloud mesa]

idk how to do quotations on mobile

[terse wadi]

Neither is the weaverlings of hallownest

[still siren]

I would love a timeline video of pharloom because there are pretty clear sections of history. The four native tribes, the establishment of the city, GMS, Weavers usurping power and, the present

[terse wadi]

They are literally weaver children

[steady prawn]

where is it said that they are herra's children, its only said they are in her tribe

[cloud mesa]

the weavers don’t make all the steampunk robots right that was another era

[silk dirge]

honestly i feel like this is something in hollow knight we just never saw bc team cherry didnt have time or money to make it

[teal drift]

it's possible that was the weaver + common bugs era

[still siren]

Weavers seem more high tech based on the dens

[silk dirge]

like team cherry 100% wanted to expand on stuff like lifeblood but didnt have the chance to

[terse wadi]

Don't recall saying that, they posed that all weavers currently around were directly elevated by GMS or something to that effect and I'm saying the weaverlings aren't and are the spawn of said weavers

[kindred verge]

or wasn't written yet

[silk dirge]

team cherry lore bible will be released one day

[teal drift]

all 100% weavers that we know of are GMS elevated, you're claiming that weaverlings are 100% weavers but i tend to disagree based on everything about them

The fact that lifeblood was the major story element they added first is so bizarre. Like they clearly have ideas about lifeblood but have just been vagueposting on it.

[still siren]

Seems like they dipped before they could improve the infrastructure smh

[terse wadi]

Can't wait for our homedawg Sharpe to appear

[cloud mesa]

i thought it was like 4 tribes >>> gms and the weavers >>>just weavers>>>> robot steampunk bell guys (conductors?) >>>>> gms is back and made kids>>>> pilgrim era

[terse wadi]

there's nothing to suggest otherwise

[silk dirge]

i feel like lifeblood was for sure meant to relate to the unfunded abyss expansion

[teal drift]

I think there's a strong overlap between weavers and common bugs because the weavers had to train and raise the common bugs to take over

[terse wadi]

They should've done it anyway like they did colloseum of fools

[silk dirge]

they literally didnt have the money lmao

[teal drift]

midwife calls the weaverlings weaver constructs

[silk dirge]

team cherry almost ran out of money making hk

silksong is their full vision

[cloud mesa]

why wouldn’t the hollow knight lifeblood dlc have added lifeblood content then

[terse wadi]

Neither did they for COF but they added it retroactively anyway

They should've done the same especially when they made back their budget and much more

[silk dirge]

i guess they just figured out a way to add it without running out of money idk

[sinful nimbus]

they must be blind 😭

[silk dirge]

i mean lifeblood was just its name it literally didnt do anything related to lifeblood

[terse wadi]

It was an unreached goal, they just decided to

[silk dirge]

yeah but the abyss expansion was out of reach

idk exactly

[terse wadi]

It was the patch dlc wasn't it, aside from adding Hive Knight

[still widget]

Anybody wandering how sherma got into the citadel?

[terse wadi]

coulda made it a dlc

[ionic palm]

He opened the door with his music

[silk dirge]

but i feel like so much of stuff in silksong was all ideas from team cherry to be in the hornet dlc

[teal drift]

Sherma's packing rock hard abs under that little cloak

[silk dirge]

nah they just undercooked hk story

and left major details out

[ionic palm]

Bro got to Whiteward and somehow didn’t die, he’s secretly a Pale Being

[silk dirge]

and it still cooked

basically all of hk i think

[terse wadi]

[silk dirge]

hk was rushed and undercooked and it still cooked

[sinful nimbus]

Everything cool made it into HK and everything lame made it into SS

[teal drift]

I wonder if they were going to forcefully insert a weaver dominant era into HK timeline

[still widget]

I tend to believe that sherma beat the last judge with her talent in music

[silk dirge]

loud wrong buzzer

hk didnt have a cold area

[terse wadi]

bait used to be believable

[silk dirge]

therefore nothing cool made it into hk

[ionic palm]

Karmelita alone clears 90% of the HK bosses

[silk dirge]

unless kingdoms edge was supposed to be a snow area

[terse wadi]

nvm apparently people falling fori t

[sinful nimbus]

Karmelita is cool but she also has no story relevance she's just a random dream that has a macguffin you need 😭

[still siren]

This seems to be the consensus I’m less interested in who’s in charge than when specific areas got to their current state. For example when did the blasted steps get like that? Did it used to be underwater? How did that happen?

[ionic palm]

Ok yeah this is ragebait

[sinful nimbus]

How

Nothing I said was inaccurate

[silk dirge]

nothing you said is particularly accurate either

[ebon silo]

What if the reason GMS is trying to save Lace and capture weavers to get more silk was because lace's silk was "laced" get it

[steady prawn]

bait is also a tasty way to start a convo

[teal drift]

guys can we just agree to ignore this person and not play into them

[terse wadi]

I'm just happy she's in was scared she wasn't going to be, being a backer boss and all

[still widget]

Into them? U going deepnest huh?

[silk dirge]

like karmelita literally was one of the rulers of areas of pharloom before gms

[terse wadi]

speaking of which, rip the sharpe backer

[silk dirge]

that seems pretty story relevant to me

[ebon silo]

DLC

[ionic palm]

Sharpe will be in the Steel Soul Mode for the next game in 7 years

[terse wadi]

Most likely

[silk dirge]

like how is soul tyrant story relevant

[teal drift]

I think the real answer to sherma is a combo of things:

1. Haunted enemies aren't universally as aggro to NPCs as they are to Hornet
2. Music can subdue silk and the haunting and Sherma got that thang on him.
3. Haunted enemies have some degree of autonomy and may just find Sherma cute

[silk dirge]

hes just the dream of this guy

[terse wadi]

Exposition

[tawdry flare]

Half the remaining unfulfilled backers will be dead by the next Hollow Knight game

[sinful nimbus]

That's basically all thats there about her except for like her singing ig

[teal drift]

sister we can't respond to them

[still siren]

Providing an explanation for why the world is in its current state I think is story. When karmelita was young the ants were far more organized. This provides a timeline for things and how pharloom has radically changed in the span of a single lifetime

[steady prawn]

shes a major part of the story which shows you that phaloom was once a vibrant and diverse place destroyed by the industry of the citadel, its one of the major overarching themes of the whole game

[still widget]

I believe everything

[silk dirge]

i mean what more do we really need to know about her??

[sinful nimbus]

Back in my day Pharloom was going to be a vibrant and diverse place in the present 👴

[lethal burrow]

The whole point of the heart quests in the third act is to showcase the citadels effect on the prior inhabitants of the land they lay that theme on pretty thick

[silk dirge]

they took your coral away like they took your snail village away

[steady prawn]

yeah but TC decided that it would be more interesting if the crumbling kingdom actually looked like it was crumbling

[silk dirge]

i wont forgive them for that

but yeah thematically it makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but its not interesting

[ionic palm]

I need a Coral Tower expansion immediately

[teal drift]

The last judge was described as doing what they do for the sake of mercy, I wonder if they just thought Sherma was worth sparing.

[sinful nimbus]

Fantasy games about exploring crumbling kingdoms are a dime a dozen

[silk dirge]

i mean what would you be doing in a live kingdom

[ebon silo]

No I'm pretty sure sherma done went after you killed the last judge

[tawdry flare]

It could’ve been crumbly AND lively 💔

[lethal burrow]

that's a whole different discussion than story irrelevance

[ionic palm]

Last Judge was clearly so intimidated by Sherma’s music that they just let him pass

[teal drift]

also wait actually, even more obvious answer: Sherma doesn't pass the gate until Hornet kills the judge, if you use phantom route, uhhh idk what he does

[steady prawn]

the judge attacks sinners, hes a guard, he judged that sherma wasnt a sinner

[lethal burrow]

Cause it's cool

[silk dirge]

a live kingdom presumably wouldnt have much wrong other than like gms

[sinful nimbus]

You could remove Karmelita and not much would change icl

[still siren]

Blasted steps are the most interesting location to me I’m guessing it’s a dried up lake bed. Or maybe ocean because coral idk. I want to know how it stopped being underwater

[silk dirge]

same with soul sanctum

[lethal burrow]

Well, you would have to rework the ants

[steady prawn]

hollow knight is one of them and the world is setup in a way where a kingdom in its prime wouldnt exactly work, hollow knight's world is a dying one

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Sanctum isn't very relevant either

[still widget]

Sherma was pure non-sinner cute af bamf

[silk dirge]

deadass soul sanctum is a cool place but you could remove it

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

[silk dirge]

and yet i dont see you complaining about it

not everything has to have insane story relevance

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah

[lethal burrow]

neither is mantis village, pantheon, or grim troop

[ionic palm]

Maybe they took the water away to be used in the Citadel showers and baths?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes the famously good lore of the pantheons and grimm troupe

[sinful nimbus]

Not cool

[teal drift]

HK and Skong are both built around random diversions that relate tangentially to the central plot of the story. If you don't like it play a more story oriented game.

[cloud mesa]

i hate extremely self contained lore like grimm group

[fallow spindle]

lace had the ability to control the butterflies which also released hornet from her cage, presumably rebelling against GMS from binding hornet to her

[steady prawn]

which part of that is not? hollow knight is 100% one of them

[fallow spindle]

(in theory)

[still siren]

Lmao the majority of the areas are only vestigially connected to hornets narrative simply being places she passes through but part of the game is uncovering the story of pharloom which karmelita serves as an important chapter

[sinful nimbus]

Let me rephrase: Silksong doesn't have cool plot relevant characters

[teal drift]

It's like reading an anthology and getting mad they don't directly connect to one overall story.

[steady prawn]

lace bro

[sinful nimbus]

HK's world as a whole is not dying

[silk dirge]

sherma is absolutely plot relevant

[teal drift]

Her response is just going to be "not cool" no matter what praises we sing guys why engage.

[steady prawn]

read the quirrel comic

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma does basically nothing he's also not cool

[silk dirge]

l take

[cloud mesa]

lace?

[silk dirge]

sherma is goated

[sinful nimbus]

I have it takes place in an empty desert

[ionic palm]

Worst take of all time

[still widget]

Yo, anybody else watching this? 🍿🍿

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah its dead

[steady prawn]

thats what outside hallownest is, thats the whoke purpose of the comic

[ionic palm]

I’ll take some popcorn too 🍿

[cloud mesa]

that’s what’s in between kingdoms

[teal drift]

Sis is mad that they didn't canonize her specific fanfic version of HK world outside of Hallownest.

[cloud mesa]

it’s not the whole world

[sinful nimbus]

Our world also has large stretches of desert populated with oasises of life, that's not proof that it is dying

[still widget]

Omg, ur trying to piss everyone off XD

[teal drift]

But that's all i'm going to engage with her. No more hate interaction will be bought.

[still widget]

Take some juice too 🧃

[silk dirge]

i mean our world literally is dying tho...

[ionic palm]

Thanks🧃

[silk dirge]

and expanding deserts are proof of that...

[sinful nimbus]

Not in the sense that civilization is crumbling or all life is soon to die out or whatever

[teal drift]

who has good ideas for what pickled muckmaggot tastes like

[fair zealot]

vinegar and piss

[silk dirge]

i mean at the rate things are going rn lol

[sinful nimbus]

Bro bought the fearmongering 🥀

[still widget]

Well, ill say like a boiled sausage, with an aftertaste of dried kelp

[silk dirge]

yeah i want interstellar to happen irl

[ionic palm]

And also probably a foodborne illness, I do not trust that chef’s FDA regulations

[silk dirge]

it sounds fun

[still widget]

FR

[silk dirge]

it does not

[sinful nimbus]

I'd eat a pickled muckmaggot

[ionic palm]

Like this cannot be sanitary bro💀

[sinful nimbus]

Lugoli oughta know what he's doing

[teal drift]

I mean its just a pickled soft meat.

[still widget]

Leave it be 😭

[silk dirge]

gordon "ass jim" ramsey

[teal drift]

We gotta realize as a community that Lugoli is a nonbinary cannibal and good representation.

[still widget]

Excuse me?

What?

[silk dirge]

also i got a last minute switch in my electricity and magnetism class to a goated professor im so going to make a paper explaining these concepts in pharloom bc i definitely will have the time for that

[sinful nimbus]

They said what they said

[teal drift]

Lugoli is genuinely nonbinary and a cannibal, It's actually in the game

[silk dirge]

THEIR NAME IS ASS JIM

[teal drift]

They are only referred to by they/them pronouns by Mergwin/Hornet and in the journal, and they are genuinely a cannibal

[teal drift]

ass/jim*

[still widget]

Wth

[ionic palm]

Lugoli reminds me of that one king from Greek mythology that cut up his son and turned him into a stew

I think the King’s name was Minos or something

[silk dirge]

gms turning weavers into beings above mortals is some greek mythology type stuff

tho thats just common mythology i think

god turns a mortal person into a being higher than what they were before

[still widget]

I think that if we fought carmilla in her prime, we would've had not beat her

[silk dirge]

hornets journal entry is 100% jealousy

[still widget]

XD

[teal drift]

HK's whole deal with very vulnerable and fallible gods that have (sometimes shared) control over elements and forces of nature... very greek god coded

[silk dirge]

your ass is getting annihilated if she opened her eyes

[edgy barn]

Muckroach have generally established to have a bad smell and a worse taste, and Chef Lugoni was expelled from the citadel for his, and I quote, culinary crimes

[silk dirge]

i mean this whole world is very greek coded bc they were one of the earliest civilizations

[teal drift]

If they do a DLC Karmelita fight I will die.

[ionic palm]

Hornet calling Karmelita her “equal” when she fights with her eyes closed AND sings while doing it

Clearly Hornet is coping

[edgy barn]

I can't imagine it tasting any good.

[silk dirge]

so a lot of shit we do is based off greece

[teal drift]

I think the culinary crimes is more a reference to their cannibalism.

[sinful nimbus]

Like the citadel would have good taste

[still widget]

Is that confirmed?

[silk dirge]

it might be a cool thing tho where karmelita falls into a rythm and fights like that

[teal drift]

The gourmand clearly thinks the food is delicious, and his palette is excellent.

[silk dirge]

im just saying generally

not the hk world

like irl world

[ionic palm]

That would be super cool, it also makes sense considering her third phase is basically one constant attack from how she takes no breaks

Karmelita is genuinely so peak

[still widget]

I can imagine anything taste nice

[teal drift]

I genuinely want a Gorumand X Mergwin dream fight

[silk dirge]

some people genuinely hate her bc they think they can just brute force her and not learn attack windows 😭

[teal drift]

Gourmand X Mergwin dream fight would literally just be Godtamer but with a palette swap.

[silk dirge]

i hate to say skill issue but some people genuinely have an aversion to trying to actually learn the boss and how it works

[edgy barn]

I want a boss refight system so badly

[teal drift]

tbf with enough architect crest gaming, you can definitely brute force her

[silk dirge]

you can refight lost lace atleast

[silk dirge]

beast crest gamers are pretty cracked also

idk if i could play beast crest but ive seen videos of people doing insane shit with it

[still widget]

Beast crest seems weird tbh

[silk dirge]

i cant believe i fell into the reaper crest trap my first playthrough 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

Architect and beast mains:

[teal drift]

my solution to Karmelita was to fight her honestly until her third phase, at which point cogflies and tacks start splattering

[sinful nimbus]

Reaper is cool

[still widget]

Reaper my beloved

[silk dirge]

it is but its not super great when you think about it

like the bind ability sure is cool

but if you get wanderer you can quick slash and get that silk anyway

[ionic palm]

Reaper is so ahh, slow damage and the silk generation buff from binding is bad (you can get more Silk from attacking fast with Wanderer)

[sinful nimbus]

I'm pretty sure the nart is busted

[lethal burrow]

wanderer has a worse range and pogo though

[sinful nimbus]

Also its fun

[silk dirge]

i barely used it tho

[teal drift]

reaper is THE casual crest imo. To any new player struggling I think it's the easiest to learn and use.

[silk dirge]

yeah this

[turbid crow]

I love the reaper crest I love the reaper crest

[ionic palm]

Longclaw basically fixes this problem

[silk dirge]

there are better crests than reaper

[lucid fossil]

what do you guys think mother silk's face really is? ive wondered since when binding her its the last living part, and phantom has a face similar to it too

[still widget]

Well, if u know hot to move after u heal, u get insane amout of silk, slik u van use in combos like threadstorm, also, its way easier to pogo

[silk dirge]

but it works good for its purpose of being a casual crest

[lucid fossil]

so true it hought reapers was da shit until i learned how to use beast...

[silk dirge]

ok you know whats actually kinda annoying with longclaw reapers

[turbid crow]

I CANNOT use beast I hate the healing thing

[silk dirge]

it makes the cogwork heart puzzles really hard

[ionic palm]

Cross Stitch is this game’s Descending Dark, it’s honestly incredible to use

[ebon silo]

za charged shaman aka the get away from me build

[teal drift]

I cannot bring myself to use beast it's a problem.

[lucid fossil]

i actually like it since i can bind at 2 masks and still get the 3 masks if i get damaged

[silk dirge]

i think team cherry did really good with crests

[teal drift]

I've given every crest a fair shot except for beast, its just too unwieldy for me

[lucid fossil]

second contender is witch, the binding damage is REALLY good

[silk dirge]

much better than charms

[turbid crow]

The pogo and healing thing for beast is not for me

[edgy barn]

the what now

[silk dirge]

there are crazy builds you can cook for each crest

[lucid fossil]

i know the beast pogo sucks so badly but it makes up for it

[silk dirge]

witch crest can allow for some fucking insane healing builds i think

[lucid fossil]

(and damage)

people really underplay it

[turbid crow]

I just got witch crest today and ngl it’s actually pretty good

[lucid fossil]

eggsactly!!

[turbid crow]

I haven’t fully explored it yet and I need more memory lockets

[ionic palm]

Shaman builds can stack ridiculous damage from just spamming Silk Storm and Pale Nails, it’s ridiculously op

[ebon silo]

Thats going to be S tier for pantheon usage though for real

[edgy barn]

No amount of game balance and build variety is going to make me not miss Strength.

[lucid fossil]

it doesnt have any yellow notches

so if you use compass ermmm

actually eva fixes that so you're fine

[turbid crow]

I mean I got the side thing for that

[teal drift]

strength sucked because anything else felt like a waste of notches

[lucid fossil]

yeah

[turbid crow]

YEA Eva thing

[ebon silo]

I think charged attacks generate silk now

[silk dirge]

i miss my strength quick slash shaman stone grubsong dream wielder build

[ionic palm]

Wait really

[ebon silo]

I think charged shaman builds + silk spell spamming could take out lost lace in 30 seconds or below

[teal drift]

I prefer the new system since there's fewer things I feel obligated to equip and swap out before boss battles, but I can still experiment a lot.

[still widget]

I wander where would the story go.. will hornet go back to hollownest? Or explore the world with lace?

[turbid crow]

I’m trying steel soul today and I know that I’m going to die within the first few hours or something in a platforming section

I’m so shit at platforming I don’t know why

[sinful nimbus]

Strength sucked for the entirety of the game until godhome where it was a must have

[ionic palm]

Yeah, in HK you only really have 8 notches because Quick Slash is a must

With Silksong I feel like I can express myself more in combat

[teal drift]

queen of L takes today i see

[silk dirge]

mainly bc for most of the game its fragile

[ebon silo]

Yeah I saw ALOT of people commenting on a latest hidden patch notes in a yt video that showcase also showed architect nerfs

[teal drift]

what if Hornet just kicked Lace into the void immediately after the credits rolled

[silk dirge]

unless you are in steel soul fragile charms arent worth it

[lethal burrow]

OK, but counterpoint instead I could not have to spend a blue tool

[sinful nimbus]

Well its also that spells outclass the nail up until its upgraded and you have quickslash

[still widget]

NOOOO

[silk dirge]

quickslash my beloved

[warped copper]

Toxic yuri.

[ionic palm]

Counterpoint: you can also use the spear throw to start a pogo chain from a horizontal distance

Which makes wanderer pogo-ing much easier

[silk dirge]

im so glad silksong fixed that issue tho where in hk there were like 3 or 4 must have charms

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah SS balance is fun

Except for yellow tools

[teal drift]

I like how sometimes using the harpoon in combat instantly loses the battle, and sometimes it is cracked as hell

[turbid crow]

I used to ship Hornet and Lace
Until Shakara came around and now I have a whole story in my head where Shakara and Hornet have bug marriage and adopt Sherma as their son

[silk dirge]

yeah i hope they expand on those in dlc

[still widget]

I still have nightmares

[edgy barn]

Wanna know what I REALLY missed?

[teal drift]

I do wish there were a few more helpful yellow tools but it's nice to have the utility tools/charms ones be less of a burden on your overall build

[silk dirge]

someone did point out tho all the grimm troupe charms suck ass

[ebon silo]

Garmond fight

[silk dirge]

except maybe sprintmaster

[wicked fossil]

The Magnetite Dice is sick though even if it is random chance

[teal drift]

carefree melody >>> sprintmaster in every way

[warped copper]

I don't hate the ship but they're more of friends to me.

[sacred heath]

“you got any cool yellow tools”
“we got mandatory equips and abysmal dogshit”

[ebon silo]

That thing has saved me so many times

[teal drift]

yeah the issue with yellow tools is you have the rosary farming ones and then the dice one, and that's what you'll be running almost the entire game

[silk dirge]

why is the scuttle so useless

its goofy but it actually does like nothing

[edgy barn]

The grubsong-deep focus-grubberfly's elegy combo for the Border Caves.

[turbid crow]

that’s fair! I understand completely, I just like their dynamic

[sacred heath]

it’s nice for platforming

[teal drift]

I feel like scuttle should be one of the first available charms but instead it's all the way in songclave lol

[sacred heath]

you can scale the walls easy peasy

[ionic palm]

Exactly, like I always forget it exists, it’s Shape of Unn but worse

[sinful nimbus]

The consensus was that it was going to be scrapped for like 5 years 😭

[wicked fossil]

I know right? I know it's another Carefree Melody but it doesn't take up room for better tools since yellow tools are just support

[sinful nimbus]

Honestly shocking

[ebon silo]

I feel like magnetite dice is not random for me it's been helping me in alot of situations

[edgy barn]

Not fun running out of health and having to redo the whole thing

[sinful nimbus]

HK also had a backdash and it was useless

[turbid crow]

Magnetite Dice is so peak

[teal drift]

Team cherry seems to have a thing for backdashes but then actually plays their game and realizes it sucks in practice.

[silk dirge]

i didnt use magnetite dice bc it felt cheap

[ionic palm]

Dice is clear evidence that gambling is always optimal

[edgy barn]

...it did?

[muted lantern]

whats the ideal pet for hornet

[wicked fossil]

Yeah it's kind of easier to just turn around and dash

[sacred heath]

honestly I’m scuttle’s biggest defender

[turbid crow]

LETS GO GAMBLING‼️‼️‼️

[ionic palm]

Something with a lot of Fur, like a Mossmir

[teal drift]

90% of "hard" HK non-boss enemies are "hit, run away when they attack, then go back in for a hit"

[wicked fossil]

Though I do want to at least utilise the scuttle more

[edgy barn]

spikeless massive mossgrub

[silk dirge]

beastling

[sinful nimbus]

I was using extra shellshards and rosary magnet

[muted lantern]

its no cheaper than the skull mask, skull mask saved me more times

[ionic palm]

AW DANG IT🗣️

[sinful nimbus]

In demos yeah

[turbid crow]

Hornet loves fluffy bugs

[silk dirge]

ive seen people bounce out beastlings from the bell beast pit thingy

its really funny

[sacred heath]

it’s a unique way to get around, and it offers a nice get-outta-dodge card for boss fights
since pressing down and scuttling away is actually faster than turning around and dashing

[muted lantern]

beastlings once sent me to the backrooms and nearly softlocked me

[silk dirge]

cute :3

[ionic palm]

I feel like in that scenario it’s just better to use Cross Stitch for free damage

[teal drift]

Did anyone else get softlocked by lost lace whacking you inside the wall?

[silk dirge]

ok honestly the beastlings are cuteness overload

[teal drift]

that shit was hilarious

[silk dirge]

the little tippy taps i cant

[turbid crow]

Dude the beastlings were so helpful I literally sighed deeply in relief when i figured out how they work

[sinful nimbus]

When do you need this utility though you can dodge everything just fine with normal dash

[silk dirge]

its too cute for this world

[turbid crow]

Thank you beastlings

[sinful nimbus]

Why do they give you beastlings when the game ends in like 3 hours anyway 😭

[teal drift]

the time it takes to develop the muscle memory for scuttle vs just learning to turn around and dash

[ionic palm]

If Team Cherry ever wants to make bank they should make a Cogfly plush

[silk dirge]

i didnt know what beastling call did until midway through act 3 and then i was like holy shit this is goated

[ebon silo]

Truly a marvelous invention

[wicked fossil]

I just realised if Eva says that conceiving is a painful and near impossible task for Weavers

[muted lantern]

i called them below pinstress's hut on one of the stone platforms over the worms, anyway they pulled me into the worms which broke me out of the animation, trapped me into the ground until i died, then i respawned in pinstress's tent, and immediatly fell through the floor and was trapped until i restarted the game

[wicked fossil]

Then that means the Little Weavers were the only kin they were able to conceive in HK

[turbid crow]

SAME I was trying to get one of the hearts and then I used the wrong button and BOOM

[silk dirge]

one of my friends was saying it would be nice if they gave you the beastlings late act 2 so you can do exploration and finish up stuff before act 3 messes up the world

[ebon silo]

I think because they're bodies are literal skeletons

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah this was patched iirc

[teal drift]

I kinda do wish the beastlines were earlier yeah

[ionic palm]

Herrah must have had a hard time giving birth to Hornet, especially due to her being half Pale Being

[wicked fossil]

Yeah makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah exactly

[silk dirge]

also what was up with the secret patch today

[sacred heath]

it’s a nice thing to play around with
like I said, it’s faster than spinning around and sprinting away
and the smaller hitbox lets you sneak under some attacks you have ZERO right to
first sinner’s needles come to mind

[ebon silo]

When was herrah half pale being

[silk dirge]

why did they literally say nothing about it

[ionic palm]

I mean Hornet, not Herrah

[fair zealot]

giant flea beanbag couch

[wicked fossil]

I thought she struck that deal with PK so that it would be easier to conceive a child

[turbid crow]

Wait did they do another patch?

[ebon silo]

Herrah looks nothing from a weaver for real

[silk dirge]

yeah

without any changelog

[ionic palm]

She has the 6 eyes on her mask and that’s about it

[turbid crow]

Huh that’s weird, I had no idea

[ebon silo]

Architect nerfs and I think charged attacks generate silk

[wicked fossil]

She could just be dressed differently for all we know, we know Widow looks different without the bulb mask

[ebon silo]

Meaning charged shaman build are probably S tier now

[teal drift]

guys make recommended patches:
-Earlier Beastlings
-Zaza in the bell home

[ebon silo]

Herrahs body is massive

Y'know what's also massive

[wicked fossil]

I do hope the new DLCs introduce a lot so we can take advantage of late game stuff like Witch crest or Shaman crest

[ionic palm]

LOWWW TAPERRR FADE

[turbid crow]

Dude the quest with Zaza tho. I literally almost cried.

[wicked fossil]

I know you can get Witch in Act II but you get the idea

[teal drift]

There should be a Zaza tool where you can ride her around swinging your sword.

[silk dirge]

i feel like lace 2 would be a good trigger for bell eater fight

[turbid crow]

I had no idea you could get it in act 2 and I missed out on some endings

[teal drift]

I like that

[silk dirge]

you could say gms coming close to waking awakened the bell eater

or something like that

[wicked fossil]

Yeah same about not finding it in Act 2

Plus I heard a lot of people were stuck with Witch in Act3

[turbid crow]

I was so PISSED becuase I really wanted to get all the endings on one save file

[wicked fossil]

Oof and yeah I get that

[ebon silo]

Nah the massive explosion caused the bell eaters awakening

[sacred heath]

same here
i did the whole extraction quest first like a CHUMP
without realizing I could go and beat up GMS

[turbid crow]

When I discovered it was an ending I literally sat there silent staring at my computer wanting to tear my hair out

I’m doing a steel soul run anyways and I’m gonna try and get it done under 30 hours

I need those achievements

[ionic palm]

Speaking of that ending, what do you think came out of the shell at the end of the Cursed ending?

[wicked fossil]

I see and I hope that goes well

[sacred heath]

tc let me get the cursed child ending with regular witch crest and my life is yours

[sacred heath]

who knows

[wicked fossil]

||Probably a root creature with Hornet and GMS' capabilities||

[turbid crow]

I actually haven’t seen that ending yet for myself yet, I want to blind react to it

[turbid crow]

LITERALLYYY

[edgy barn]

Greyroot with the absorbed powers of Hornet and GMS.

[ionic palm]

Oh ok, you should definitely watch it soon, it’s quite cool

[edgy barn]

In other words, Pharloom is cooked.

[turbid crow]

I know there’s a weird root thing but the actual scene itself I haven’t seen yet, I don’t want to see the actual cutscene until I do it but I’m chill with spoilers

[native mural]

Why was hornet considered the protector of hallownest?

[turbid crow]

OH MY GOD the final ending cutscene after lost lace. I literally nearly sobbed

[turbid crow]

She’s just that goated

[teal drift]

I think the greyroot has good vibes so the ending is a good ending?

[ionic palm]

Yeah um considering the large amount of dead bugs in the Chapel of the Witch I think Greyroot has sinister intentions

[teal drift]

it's a little baby ❤️

[wicked fossil]

She is technically heir to the kingdom being the Pale King's daughter

[ionic palm]

Btw if you get caught by a Slab jailer, the roots will break the cage open and kill the jailer before you get transported to the slab

Twisted Bud is some hellspawn creature I’m certain of it

[teal drift]

I do wonder wtf the grey root lore is meant to be. Anyone got ideas on that from the chapel of the witch

I feel like it's just Nyleth but with bad vibes.

[turbid crow]

Dude during the weird rebirth quest when I brought the fetus baby to greyroot, it scared the shit out of me when greyroot suddenly grabbed me

[edgy barn]

Parasite that reincarnates itself by consuming new hosts

[fair zealot]

imagine if greyroot was literally only for the polyp quest and nothing else

now think about all the other things in the game that seem simple and unembellished, how much lore is hiding beneath them

[teal drift]

i meant in the history of the world what its done

[ionic palm]

And from Eva’s dialogue is sounds like the parasite has been around for a while

[edgy barn]

Let me bring some dialogue

[rocky lily]

Anyone know what mother silk is

[turbid crow]

Ngl im a bit interested in the lifeblood shit that happened

[rocky lily]

Is it a weaver or sum

[teal drift]

pale being

[rocky lily]

So like the white lady, and pale king?

[turbid crow]

A really hard boss that took me an hour and a half

[rocky lily]

A higher being of silk?

[snow cedar]

I wonder how much of that happened to joni

[teal drift]

silk is a form of soul it seems

[rocky lily]

Also btw i freed green prince how do i fight his ver of cogwork dancers

[ionic palm]

Eva’s Dialogue when infected with the Twisted Bud:

“Stay back, twisted leech! Even lodged within another's shell, your ravenous nature shines clear.
You shall not defoul this chamber, nor claim my soul. Begone!”

[sacred heath]

play the game

[edgy barn]

Pavo, Upon obtaining the Twisted Bud:

That cry upon you, sister! Those are the sour sobs of a grey and twisted thing.
Hornet: You speak of the bud? It is a mysterious thing indeed. In the dank swamps above the moor, I sought towards its plaintive wails, and found it resting there... Waiting, it almost seemed.
But you speak of its form, without sighting it upon me. Is it a thing familiar to you?... Have you heard these cries before?
Aye, yes! Not your own specimen, surely, but way back, other travellers did sometimes carry similar. Odd types they all were. Offerings they'd call the crying things, and towards the core of Shellwood they would trek.
Never I did see one again, not the buds nor the bugs that brought the gift...
If you're planning to follow their path, I'll wish on your safety, but 'tis an ill omen to hear such sad sounds returned after so long.

[snow cedar]

I think silk is a combination of a soul and a naturally produced second substance

[rocky lily]

Im tryna get the conductors melody bro i cant do it rn

[teal drift]

if you can't get conductor's melody simply try cheating by doing shakra's quest and purchasing ascendant's grip

[turbid crow]

YEAH like based off of act 3 and how infected worm ways got with it… its very easy for it to develop into a horrible infection and maybe that’s why it was super taboo in Hallownest

[ionic palm]

The core of Shellwood? Makes me think the buds were used to attack Nyleth or something

[snow cedar]

It also occurs to me that Joni’s blessing is the equivalent of an overdose
No wonder it sucks

[teal drift]

how old is shellwood i wonder

[edgy barn]

Greyroot, upon refusing the Rite of Rebirth:

Hornet: I am unable to help you. Not now. Perhaps another traveller will offer aid.
None.... none come now. once times, many bugs. Many. Now none. The final rite... the time of birth approaches...

[turbid crow]

I can’t believe you can gamble, go to jail, and overdose in Silksong

[teal drift]

I wonder why parts of Greyroot are in bilewater to begin with even

[ionic palm]

I assume it’s where the previous host was killed

[edgy barn]

You also get an abortion

[teal drift]

Greyroot when it sees a soul wielding stilkin coming at it in 4K:

[ebon silo]

Why does widow fight us again when hornet and him are the same species

[teal drift]

widow is an insane worshipper of a comatose god who Hornet is a threat to

[snow cedar]

Widow’s a guy?

[turbid crow]

Wait widow is a guy?

[edgy barn]

No

[teal drift]

widow is a woman

[snow cedar]

I thought not

[edgy barn]

All Weavers are female

[snow cedar]

I thought so

[ionic palm]

Idk why Greyroot chose Hornet as the host when it could’ve just used a Savage Beastfly, Pharloom would be destroyed within a day

[teal drift]

I think the greyroot we meet is one of the last of their kind. I do wonder what's up with the pollips though.

[ionic palm]

Whatever the Twisted Bud is I am certain we’re gonna get DLC content of it in the future

[turbid crow]

Oh btw I did notice that when Hornet describes Phantom she uses they them pronouns for them
Which idk if that’s just because she genuinely didn’t know the gender or if that was intentional
Sorry that it’s off topic the widow gender thing made me think of that

[snow cedar]

Do we think the sprintmaster is the same sprintmaster from the hk charm

[teal drift]

I think if bugs lock in hard enough and obsess over sprinting they can tap into a primal "sprinting/dashing" force that drives them to go faster and faster.

Like I think there's a cult around going fast and a power associated with that cult, not necessarily a god of sprinting, but some sort of power.

[ionic palm]

Probably, dude ran a marathon from Hallownest to Pharloom lol

[shy island]

is grand mother silk literally hornet's grandma or is "grand mother" title as in "big boss around here" title

[teal drift]

I think it's a bit of both, but more the latter.

[snow cedar]

Sprintmaster swift doesn’t look like the charm tho

[teal drift]

Like it's not a coincidence that that's probably literally hornet's grandmother, but Grand Mother is overall more like a title.

[shy island]

I mean he's the sprintmaster for a reason

[snow cedar]

I’m not certain it was meant to even mean grandmother

[vivid kernel]

Is lace made of void like hollow knight?

[snow cedar]

Lace is pure silk

[turbid crow]

I thought lace was silk

[naive crag]

shes made of silk

[turbid crow]

Lace just gets REALLY emo in act three

[vivid kernel]

Oh ok

[ionic palm]

Hmmm, if Lace is the daughter of GMS, and Hornet is the granddaughter of GMS, wouldn’t that make Lace and Hornet technically related?🤔

[teal drift]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Hornet's in text grandma is referred to as Grand Mother. Like I think it's not the primary intention, but I refuse to believe that's not intentional.

[snow cedar]

I don’t think gms is hornets grandmother

[vivid kernel]

I was wondering if the last phase she just gave into her void nature

[teal drift]

not literally, but figuratively she is the mother and creator of weavers

[snow cedar]

I’ll have to reread but in the relic lore it sounded to me like gms came to pharloom after the weavers

[fossil bobcat]

Grand mother silk>lace
Grand mother silk>weavers>herrah>hornet

[teal drift]

First Sinner indicated GMS uplifted Weavers from Pharlids.

[snow cedar]

huh
Ok

[forest blade]

Is signis and gron related to the forge daughter

Since they are fore brothers

[snow cedar]

In the sense of them working in deep docks

I think forge daughter is a title but I’m unsure

[turbid crow]

Hornet and Lace in my eyes are just cousins who fight at every family reunion

[forest blade]

Maybe all the bell dudes are related

Idk tho

[ionic palm]

Pale King’s Thanksgiving must be crazy lol

[foggy fractal]

why weavers into herrah
herrah is a full weaver given that Hornet is half weaver
unless we assume a weaver and another weaver gave birth to Herrah, which we don't have evidence for and have evidence against it

[forest blade]

Imagine if they made a Grimm dlc for hollow knight

[turbid crow]

The absolute beef everyone has with each other would go bonkers

[teal drift]

also what's up with forgedaughter's pronouns? Is it like 3 chicks in that one suit? or were they all merged into a supersuit?

[vivid kernel]

|| If GMS's thing was silk then what was PK's thing? ||

[snow cedar]

That would require giving the Grimm quest a canon ending

[turbid crow]

Buzzsaws

[fossil bobcat]

Sawblades

[vivid kernel]

I see

[turbid crow]

He LOVEDDD those buzz saws

[naive crag]

foresight and he gave a mind to bugs that werent sapient

[snow cedar]

On this topic
The endings where the knight is sealed are pretty much confirmed non-canon at this point right

[ionic palm]

I can only imagine the Pale Lady’s face when Pale King came home with hundreds of Buzzsaws from the local Home Depot

[echo trellis]

I feel bad for the underworkers

[vivid kernel]

If that was PK's thing then how did pharloom's bugs become sentient?

[forest blade]

If they made a third hk game what character should it be with and should it be a prequel a sequel or in-between SS and hk

[foggy fractal]

well if we say that sister of the void is canon to silksong then yes because it follows after etv or dnm

[turbid crow]

God forbid a wyrm has hobbies

[naive crag]

there is already sapient bugs, pk just gave a mind to those who didnt have it

[vivid kernel]

Ohhhhh

I see

[snow cedar]

So if hornet or lace are even mentioned in a future game

[teal drift]

PK has a sentience buffing aura

[ionic palm]

Well he does have other hobbies, like throwing hundreds if not thousands of babies into the void

[honest anvil]

and creating the babies!

[teal drift]

I think there are tribes of bugs with sentience outside of a pale being but pale beings walking around will just randomly bring a bunch of common bugs into full sentience

[vivid kernel]

Would all wyrms have a sentience buff?

[teal drift]

I think so, possibly all pale beings but that one's less confirmed

[ionic palm]

“No cost too great” I think he just wanted an excuse to get freaky with the White Lady

[forest blade]

I wonder why shade lord and the knight in dream no more ending appear

[forest blade]

Are both endings canon?

[teal drift]

I don't know if there's any confirmation of this, but I think many of Pharloom's pilgrims are recipients of a sentience buff by GMS rather than always being sentient like Coral/Ants.

[forest blade]

And if the shade lord ending is also canon then what was up with hornet and pure vessel?

[covert tusk]

I assumed it was just masks

[ionic palm]

Doesn’t that sentience buff from the Pale King wear off if you go outside of the kingdom though?

[forest blade]

I wonder if there's some multiverse stuff going on here

[teal drift]

yes, and I'd assume pilgrims also aren't super sentient until they come in Pharloom

given that their entire existence is oriented around seeking out the beacon of power

tbh, what if there's two vessels returning to Hallownest at once, and one does the DNM ending and the other does the ETV ending at the same time.

[turbid crow]

I saw a theory where he actually had the babies hatched while they were all the way down in the void, and whoever climbed up first was the pure vessel
So his hobby is also watching little babies climbing platforms and falling to their deaths

[forest blade]

I need answers 🙏🫃

[snow cedar]

We have seen bugs journey through the wastes without protection before

[honest anvil]

we don't really understand how bug intelligence works and never did to begin with
presumably bugs become more intelligent when entering kingdoms but we don't understand how intelligent they are outside of them

[ionic palm]

He must have been waiting a while for the Hollow Knight to get up there

[snow cedar]

Best example we have is the Quirrel comic

[turbid crow]

It’s okay him and his servant guys make bets on who’s gonna get up there first

Gambling on it

[teal drift]

I think there's simply multiple routes to sentience: being a part of an already sentient group, being elevated by a pale-being/wyrm, being dreamed up by a powerful dreamer, maskmaking, and probably some other options.

[covert tusk]

It can’t just be me noticing the similarities between haunted bellhart and the cut ending right?

[fair zealot]

i think it's an artistic representation of hornet not really knowing what she's seeing, and it can be interpreted to follow either ending

[ionic palm]

Also the Knight doesn’t remember what happened in the Abyss until after the Birthplace sequence

[chrome atlas]

making bets woth the godbug who can see the future

[tawdry flare]

Yes

[tawdry flare]

That is correct

[snow cedar]

Although assumedly hornet and the bugs who captured her were able to retain information through the wastes

[turbid crow]

Dude when I saw the scene with the little ghost knight I literally tweaked out so hard becuase I made theories about it but I NEVER expected it to be canon or shown

[teal drift]

The bugs that captured her were being puppetted by a god.

[snow cedar]

The god has limits

[ionic palm]

I think that’s because Hornet is part Pale being and is born with sentience

And the servants were being controlled by GMS

[teal drift]

If GMS stuffed them up with silk to keep them active she could probably send them pretty far

[snow cedar]

hm

[teal drift]

Hornet is child of a weaver with pre-existing sentience and therefore retains it when travelling, much like Shakra does, who was born to a sentient tribe.

I would say Hornet's pale-ness has to do with her sentience, but the Knight was twice as pale as her and still got memory wiped lol.

[honest anvil]

yeah
it indicates that masks are very relevant to intelligence and that bugs are capable of at least primitive speech outside of kingdoms

[tawdry flare]

I think that was the concussion not the wilds beyond

[ionic palm]

Falling into the Abyss does give a lot of trauma I guess🤷‍♂️

[teal drift]

I think the Knight fell victim to the mindwipe field but it's possible it was just repressing allat.

[fair zealot]

if masks are very relevant to intelligence then that has Implications with the citadel bugs who are forced to wear veils to hide their faces

[honest anvil]

do we know that the knight didn't remember things? it's not like they can tell us

[sacred heath]

head trauma

[snow cedar]

we don’t know what shakra was like in the wastes
It’s also occurred to me that potentially weaver seals can protect sentience across the wastes? Didn’t quirrel’s mask have a seal on it

[sacred heath]

oooh

[teal drift]

Yeah it seems magic artifacts/masks can probably help retain sentience

[snow cedar]

Every weaver wears a mask so that helps them

[honest anvil]

there's a reason why the mask makers exist

[turbid crow]

If my sibling beat me to the race of having a father figure and watched me fall down to an abyss, I’d want to forget about it too

[ionic palm]

Doesn’t the Mask Maker in Silksong only become Lucid until after the mask is taken off though?

[teal drift]

Shakra was at least sentient enough to track her mother imo.

[snow cedar]

Masks seem to have an affect on personality

[teal drift]

Based on the fact that tribes like the mantis' predate the PK's arrival, I think some tribes of bugs are just sentient at baseline.

[honest anvil]

he's lucid, but he was conscious both ways. we don't know what lucidity really means

[turbid crow]

Does Hornet wear a mask too? Is she able to take it off or

Is it literally her head

[fair zealot]

i didn't see what he was like without his mask but even with his mask he seems a lot more lucid than hallownest's mask maker lol

[sacred heath]

nah that’s her face

[snow cedar]

Although that also seems mask dependent
Nothing in this game is consistent

[honest anvil]

yes the white thing is a mask bugs wear tons of masks

[teal drift]

MM says she was born with a mask so i think its' just her head/face

[turbid crow]

Okay I figured

[ionic palm]

I think it’s just her head, and also where she produces her Silk

[honest anvil]

it's her head but it's also her mask

[turbid crow]

Head full of silk
No thoights, just silk

[snow cedar]

When you remove the mask he completely changes up

[teal drift]

I think it's consistent, there's just multiple routes for the same result.

[snow cedar]

Becomes much more somber

[sacred heath]

silk is stored in the braincell

[turbid crow]

Wait you can remove the mask? I had no idea

[fair zealot]

is it not a mask? when she dies (aka shell breaks) her head is black, not white. same with the weaver queen ending

[sacred heath]

yeah you beat the shit out of him and it falls off

[teal drift]

I kinda imagined the silk coming from her butt in line with real spiders, but im realizing that might not be it.

[ionic palm]

Instead of brainrot she has Silkrot

[turbid crow]

Ohhhh okay

[snow cedar]

I did it with a needle art

Idk if there’s other ways

[turbid crow]

That is a horrifying image to imagine

[sacred heath]

his dialogue afterwards is… very interesting, if you decide to go look for it

[teal drift]

I imagine hornet's sitation is rather analagous to if our torso looked like this:

[honest anvil]

the silk seeps out of her like sweat

[turbid crow]

Oh definitely, I want to discover everything about the game

[turbid crow]

Sweat silk…

[naive crag]

isnt she silk herself

[sacred heath]

nah she’s bug

[turbid crow]

She silks… and then she songs…

[forest blade]

Good theory

[ionic palm]

I don’t think so, First Sinner and Widow have bodies, it’s only Lace and Phantom that are 100% Silk

[honest anvil]

hornet is bug and makes silk inside

[turbid crow]

https://tenor.com/view/silk-and-song-silksong-hornet-hollow-knight-minecraft-gif-3101583980423722295

[ionic palm]

A portal to…

THE CRADLE🗣️

[naive crag]

when she gives you silk for silk soar it looks like her body is made of it

[turbid crow]

Zaza Jockey!

[foggy fractal]

who GMS ?

[ionic palm]

If you mean GMS then yes I think she is made of Silk, at least partially

[naive crag]

yeah gms

[sacred heath]

Crafting Metal!

[foggy fractal]

gms seems mostly if not all silk

[ionic palm]

First we Silk, then we Song
LETS SILKSONG!

[turbid crow]

LIFEBLOOD! RELEASE!!

[covert tusk]

Dude can I just say I love how half the pilgrims we find are enemies we can find too? Like it makes the haunting feel so much more impactful, because we can meet people EXACTLY like those. It’s something it does way better than the first game imo, who only had Myla

[forest blade]

How is herrah connected to Grandma silk

[turbid crow]

I’m so glad they didn’t do shit to Sherma

[forest blade]

?

[honest anvil]

created by GMS like all the other weavers

[turbid crow]

I would’ve actually fought team cherry

[snow cedar]

Gms made weavers

[ionic palm]

Herrah is a Weaver who was elevated to Weaver status by GMS

[naive crag]

im disappointed we didnt get anything like quirrel (that i can think of)

garmond isnt close to quirrel

[snow cedar]

Shakra kinda works for that

[honest anvil]

hornet is the quirrel-like

[ionic palm]

I saw the quest say that Sherma went to Whiteward and I audibly screamed “NO!”

[turbid crow]

I mean we kinda got Garmon and Zaza but they’re more like Cloth

[naive crag]

the best quirrel moment is sitting with him for the last time and never seeing him again

shakra never does that

[turbid crow]

YEAH I WAS PANICKING that’s my SON

[forest blade]

Is Shakra both the mix of quirrel and cornifer

?

[turbid crow]

Kind of

[foggy fractal]

eh theres a lot of wanderers in Silksong

[turbid crow]

Quirrel is idk he’s just him and I love him

[ionic palm]

And if you play the Needolin while in Whiteward, Sherma will sing in a shaky voice, almost like he’s crying 😢

[foggy fractal]

I'd argue that Seth feels more like what Quirrel was

[turbid crow]

REALLY??? Oh my god that would’ve broken my heart

[honest anvil]

you can draw parallels between the characters but they are also just different characters who all fill different roles