sk-lore

[wary plover]

Bro don't call the knight a void infested bug :(. He's cute

[dry bridge]

The knight is in a bit more of an advanced state of void-ness than silk-possessed husks getting overtaken by void, I think.

[cloud plover]

yes

[fast mesa]

yeah but the knight isn't infected, hes made of void. Also the void in pharloom seems different than the void in hallownest. Maybe it was the ritual you made to summon it or something

[cloud plover]

void is the same everywhere

[fast mesa]

yeah but it isn't everywhere in hallownest

its there in the abyss chilling

thats what i meant

[cloud plover]

this is not because the void is different, rather it is able to go everywhere in pharloom because gms is inside the void but her silk is still strung through pharloom

[cloud mesa]

the knight being like a perfect fusion between void and regular soul creature is how i interpeted it

[cloud plover]

the void attaches to gms and then her silk and is able to spread

[fast mesa]

oh thats right i didnt think about that

[cloud mesa]

ohhhhh that makes sense

[cloud plover]

i think this is a good interpretation but the nature of the knight is kinda iffy

the knight is pk and wls child, killed immediately, and stuffed with void

[dry bridge]

More accurately, the knight is the offspring of two pale beings whose egg was dipped in void before birth.

[cloud plover]

i think they were killed off and filled with void not dipped in void

[dry bridge]

I think their eggs were submerged completely until they "died" and were fully suffused in void

[fossil ledge]

The eggs were deposited in the Abyss, where the void seeped in and hollowed out the developing embryos, replacing their innards with void

[dry bridge]

Yeah this

[cloud plover]

i see

[fossil ledge]

The real questions is who laid the eggs. Cause last I checked, roots don't lay eggs...

[cloud mesa]

i like the idea that the eggs were dipped in the void sea & thats what the lighthouse was for

[cloud plover]

also wl was not this big when the vessels were born how did she pop out those eggs 😭

[cold peak]

They don't usually speak, or move around, or are apparently godlike entities either lol

[fast mesa]

What do you think she's talking about here? Where will she take Lace to?

[cloud plover]

hallownest dlc i’m telling youuuuu

[cloud mesa]

so the eggs could be slowly boiled without being cracking

[fossil ledge]

Also, just saying, earthworms are hermaphroditic...

[deep elk]

I'm replaying the game now finally that I finished it.
What route were those guys even taking Hornet to?
Like they were going form Blasted Steps entrance from outside Pharloom to Shellwood.

[cloud mesa]

omgg this is canon i solved the void light house

[dry bridge]

Shes probably going to go home to hallownest when shes done with solving the problemd in pharloon

[cloud plover]

pretty sure the light house already has an explanation

[fast mesa]

It would be crazy

[cloud plover]

to guide the vessels or smth i forgor

[fast mesa]

Yeah but what is left for her there?

[cloud mesa]

no but like the light house specifically subduing the void sea

[cloud plover]

oh i see

[faint edge]

Silk song comes after the story of hollow knight right

[dry bridge]

Presumably, whatever the bugs have made of it since the radiance was defeated.

[cold peak]

The lighthouse was built by pale king, on a naturally formed spire, to keep the void subdued while he studied the possibility of giving the void form

[cloud mesa]

doesnt that make sense? like it turned the void sea into a simmer instead of straight boiling so the eggs wouldnt crack as they were being embued with void energy

[cloud plover]

why would the light house cool down the void though

[fossil ledge]

It's interesting to note that the naturally formed spire looks like the remains of a giant worm-like bug. Same with the main room of the Abyss

[cloud plover]

cause it’s light?

[dry bridge]

We don't actually know what happens to the husks after the radians is gone, if some of them have enough life left to go bsck go living, there might be quite a lot of people hanging out

[cold peak]

They hate the light

[cloud mesa]

not like litterally cool down but yk make it still

[cloud plover]

ok yes i get you

[fast mesa]

there's lots of these in the pharloom abyss, are there not?

[cloud mesa]

this is my new canon

[fossil ledge]

Yes

They seem to be found wherever the void is

[dry bridge]

Lumaflies are magic

[fast mesa]

they actually seem like the outside of the abyss entrance in hallownest

[fossil ledge]

Light is the power opposed to the void, and even a little light seems to be enough to calm the void, as can be seen with lumaflies

[fossil ledge]

Indeed, that's what I said above

[fast mesa]

oh sorry lol

[fossil ledge]

Speaking of giant bugs, has anyone noticed the massive cavern the Moss Grotto and the village is located in seems to have a spine and ribes?

[fast mesa]

it didnt work that well in pharloom

[cloud plover]

yessss

[fossil ledge]

Void imbued with a will is strong enough to resist most forms of light

[cloud plover]

was always way too focused on what i was doing in the game to give it any thought tho lol

[dry bridge]

More accurately, I think the force opposite to void is Soul, and pale beings seem to all have influence over different forms of soul (Pharloom's silk is explicitly tied to soul, iirc)

[fossil ledge]

Soul attracts void, light repels it

[cloud mesa]

well soul is life force and void is very not that

[fast mesa]

soul is life force and void is death force?

[cloud plover]

too many elements and shit to remember

[fossil ledge]

Fair, imagine how big that bug would be if alive

[cloud mesa]

maybe???

[heavy falcon]

Maybe they're related to the skeletons in where sprintmaster is? Skull tyrant is also proof of giant bugs

[cloud plover]

ancient civilization member ⁉️

[cloud mesa]

omg remember ancient civilization

[fossil ledge]

Could be, though the skeleton I mentioned is several orders of magnitude bigger then either of these, but especially the skull tyrant one

[cloud plover]

i would assume the ancient civilization is outside of hallownest as well given its relation to void which is everywhere

[cloud mesa]

is there any new ancient civ lore

[cloud plover]

i don’t think so

[fossil ledge]

Could be, but given how large it is, I'm not sure what to even think of it lol

[heavy falcon]

Just the arcane egg

[cloud mesa]

does that have lore?

[fossil ledge]

Not much, unfortunately

[fast mesa]

yeah its weird that the abyss seems global and the civilization is the same

[fossil ledge]

Seems like the relic seeker in Pharloom knows even less about them than Lemm does, which makes sense I suppose

[cloud mesa]

arcane eggs have data stored inside them right

[fossil ledge]

Yes

[heavy falcon]

"... No will... No self... Shade"

[dry bridge]

I think most of the built stuff in pharloom's abyss is from the weavers who were there, so not much ancient civ stuff

[cloud plover]

lemm was way better than pharloom relic keeper on my mama

lemm actually knew stuff

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, was weird to find an Arcane egg in Pharloom. My initial guess was a wandering or travelling member of the AC

[fossil ledge]

Another interesting thing to note is that the relic seeker and vaultkeeper species seem to be either similar or the same, both wanting to hoard data, specifically relics of the past

[cloud mesa]

i bet that hornet's memory exploring powers are gonna be used to open up that arcane egg and its secrets in the dlc

[cloud plover]

hmmmmmmm

that could be cool

[fossil ledge]

Would be epic, but I doubt it

[craggy smelt]

On the one hand, I would love more info about the AC
on the other, that might spoil the mystery

[cloud mesa]

it feels significant that its the only one and theres no reward besides rosary from geting it right

[fast mesa]

true, but the relic seeker uses a mask

its mask kind of gave me grimm troupe vibe slol

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, it was very disappointing to find out the relic keeper doesn't actually share or comment on anything you find. Neither does the vaultkeeper

[heavy falcon]

And a cloth to hide their head, maybe she's hiding her true form?

[cloud mesa]

dw everything in the arcane egg is gonna be hella vague and leave #sk-lore theorizing for years

[cloud plover]

i think the significance lies more in the existence of the arcane egg in pharloom and not the contents of the egg

[fossil ledge]

True, all Citadel bugs except for pilgrims seem to wear some kind of garb concealing their face

[heavy falcon]

Except "HELL YEAH MORE HISTORY" Type of dialogue

[cloud mesa]

don't hornets memory in object/place powers just kinda match with arcane eggs?

[cloud plover]

objects and places don’t have memories to enter

[cloud mesa]

but arcane eggs have weird stuff going on

[fossil ledge]

This, though it would've been nice to learn something more besides just that the AC had a presence in Pharloom at some point

[cloud plover]

now given that the arcane egg has information written from the ancient civilization it’s possible they contain enough remnants of memories to explore

[craggy smelt]

the relics in Hallownest didn't get individual lore entries though
(I wish they did... four arcane eggs...)

[cloud plover]

yea i bet they’ll touch on it in dlcs

if not make a whole dlc around it

[cloud mesa]

My fellows have claimed there's a will of sorts within each egg, that each seeks its own bearer, or reject them. That'd be a subtle power indeed, and I remain sceptical.

let hornet bear the egg!!!!

[cloud plover]

good point

[fossil ledge]

This is true, but we learn more from Lemm's commentary than we would if the relics had any text about them. Wanderer's journals would be bug's stories. Seals likely wouldn't have any dialogue, as would the idols

At most some name attached or engraved

[cold peak]

https://tenor.com/view/egg-iasip-always-sunny-philadelphia-gif-11094806

[fossil ledge]

I also wish we got more than one

[cloud mesa]

oh also is rellic seeker scourge one of his fellows

[cloud plover]

nah

[fossil ledge]

They most likely won't. Odds are we'll mostly be getting entirely new content as DLCs, tying mostly to Pharloom if anything

[cloud plover]

i disagree completely, what more is there to do in pharloom besides clean up the towns and repair and stuff

steel assassins is a big possibility

[fossil ledge]

What I mean, is it'll be new factions or a new area type of stuff

[shell jewel]

I have a semi-serious question guys. If we're going by pharloom / hallownest standards, is Hornet canonically attractive?

[craggy smelt]

kratt says 'yes'

[cloud mesa]

also yk shamans r void arcane eggs r void hornets power is a shaman power

[cloud mesa]

ehh whos to say, they said they have big big plans for dlc

[fossil ledge]

Probably, yes. At the very least, she likely has some element of her divine nature be apparent to some bugs

[cloud plover]

i think so too i don’t think that rules out an ancient civilization dlc tho

[shell jewel]

I'm serious here. kratt obviously finds hornet attractive but is he alone in this? I want to know

[cloud plover]

the arcane egg memory idea is lowkey growing on me

[heavy falcon]

She has had partners, so perhaps

[cloud mesa]

tell me it doesnt make sense

[craggy smelt]

I'd love more to the Abyss... a memory zone when the Ancient Civilization was still active? how tantalizing...

[cloud mesa]

we cant have 2 games with mysterious eggs full of secret and not be able to crack them open in either one

[fossil ledge]

It depends. Her divine nature is apparent to some bugs, who seem to like it, while her weaver nature is apparent to others, who dislike it

Most bugs don't really comment on her appearance though, so it's hard to say

Based on the fact that bugs repeatedly mentioned how the Knight looked plain, common and drab, it's likely that she's at the very least above average

[shell jewel]

I mean by status standards most people would probably not even have a chance with hornet, she's a princess, royalty in more ways than one, is a demigod, is semi-immortal and is a strong warrior. how do you even get on her level

[shell jewel]

yeah but kratt tho

[fossil ledge]

What about him?

[shell jewel]

or is Kratt's fetish just sort of bugs like hornet

[heavy falcon]

Either forcefully inject soul or silk inside yourself to mimic divinity

[shell jewel]

Idk Im thinking too deeply into this

[cloud plover]

kratt is probably just hypersexual lol

[shell jewel]

I should get some sleep

[fossil ledge]

I think Kratt developed an affection for Hornet because she saved him, and he expresses it weirdly cause he's a weirdo

[cloud mesa]

silksong dlc pack ideas
grimm troup
crack that (arcane) egg!!
godmaster
infection stragglers
steel assasin attack!
primal (past) pharloom
return to hallownest!

[cloud plover]

primal past was already done with the hearts section of the game

[fossil ledge]

That said, he does elaborately describe Hornet's movements and such as graceful, so

[cloud mesa]

yeah but primal past areas like verdania

[cloud plover]

wdym tho we went to verdania

[cloud mesa]

other ones

all over

[cloud plover]

are you saying there would be more
primal places we don’t know about

i think it’s unlikely

[shell jewel]

I was just minding my own business silking my song until I can't silk it no more, until I thought "Wait since Kratt did that does that mean Hornet's actually hot by bug standards?" and then I couldn't sleep and had to find answers

[fossil ledge]

Eh, neither would work

[cold peak]

Imagine they pull a pokemon heartgold/soulsilver and just let you have the entire HK map to re-explore in dlc

[fossil ledge]

My guess is yes, probably

[shell jewel]

speaking of that I have the whitewars surgery playing in my bellhome whenever I go there to sleep, it tends to keep Hornet relaxed

[cloud mesa]

okay not necessarily primal but past

[fossil ledge]

Though not enough for most to comment on it. That said, I'd also wager most wouldn't dare try it, given her personality and how skilled she seems to look at fighting

[cloud mesa]

i just liked the alliteration

[shell jewel]

alr I understand

[heavy falcon]

It would turn you into a cool eldritch monster with no will, which is cool

[cloud plover]

i just don’t get why’d they repeat the same idea they did in act3 but for more places

[deep elk]

Why was he captured again?

[fossil ledge]

Most bugs seem to consider it creepy and pathetic lol

[cloud mesa]

idk why there cant be more than one past area

[fossil ledge]

I mean, we got two past areas

[cloud mesa]

2 proper ones like lost verdania?

[fossil ledge]

Coral Tower is pretty big too

[cloud mesa]

oh i didnt realize rhat was past

[cloud plover]

we will get more proper areas in dlc i doubt they will be past pharloom areas through a dream though

[fossil ledge]

Speaking of the past, I'm curious what the Citadel looked like before the hedonists took over the minimalists

[cloud mesa]

ok took the notes scratched it off the dlc list

[cloud plover]

was the citadel created before the hedonists

[fossil ledge]

Pious-something mentions things being made of stone and plain in appearance

[cloud plover]

i thought it was ushered in by gms

[fossil ledge]

Yes, it would seem

[cloud mesa]

the citadel was made to trap gms right

[shell jewel]

So am I right in thinking that in this World there are, Sentient Bugs (People), Infected Bugs (Radiance infection), Haunted Bugs (Silk haunting), Mechanical Constructs, Beasts (like marrow maws, bugs that are animal like but separate from sentient bugs, basically what animals are to humans), and Voided beings (anything, even mechanical constructs), and finally Higher Beings. Is that all or did I miss any

[fossil ledge]

From what I can gather, the first was GMS and the Weavers, then some first wave of pilgrims seeking the protection of Weavers, then others who led a simple life, and finally the hedonists who turned the Citadel into the gilded "paradise" we see in-game

[cloud mesa]

ghosts?

u forgot ghosts i think

[shell jewel]

what are ghosts again?

[cloud mesa]

in the first game

the dream warriors

[shell jewel]

they're basically just spirits of dead people

can't affect the world at all

[cloud mesa]

ehhh

one of them moves his weapon arround

[shell jewel]

oh right

ok then lets add ghosts to the list of entities

I prefer to call them spirits

[cloud plover]

they are spirits

[cloud mesa]

and where would u put greyroot into this?

[cloud plover]

good question

[cloud mesa]

we're splitting hairs here lol

[shell jewel]

eldritch wood monster?

new type of entity

so did I miss any other type of entity

[cloud mesa]

is greyroot void or is she just weird hmmm

[cloud plover]

greyroot is basically a parasite

[cold peak]

Cultist plant

[subtle plaza]

There are beings made entirely out of silk

[cloud plover]

yea lace + phantom

[cloud mesa]

jellyfish

[shell jewel]

I can only think of lace, phantom, and maybe the wraiths

[blissful harbor]

the weavers of weaversong are also woven

[shell jewel]

OK WE HAVE MARINE LIFE AS WELL NOW ARE WE DONE

[cold peak]

Pale beings being higher beings but on steroids

[shell jewel]

silksong got fucking crustaceans

[craggy smelt]

the bugs of the sea

[cloud mesa]

also where would u putput the wood guys in shellwood

[shell jewel]

ok pale beings are we missing any more?

[subtle plaza]

I think theres more you missed but idk

[cloud plover]

there are also bugs that are born from higher beings, like the bugs of green path

[cold peak]

Did we already say mushrooms

[shell jewel]

they're beasts

[cloud mesa]

they're wood tho?

[subtle plaza]

I should make an extensive document detailing every faction in all of hk

[blissful harbor]

those are still bugs
some of them just have magic

[shell jewel]

nope

[cloud mesa]

like she surely isnt a bug

[cold peak]

Fungi family

[cloud plover]

yea they don’t function differently i think that’s an important distinction tho

[craggy smelt]

plant bug

[shell jewel]

not really listing down factions, just types of entities in the hollow knight world

[blissful harbor]

stick bug

[cold peak]

Stick bug

[craggy smelt]

bug stick

[cloud mesa]

higher beings is more of an umbrella term for a class of sentient bugs

[shell jewel]

sister splinter and the other stick bugs don't really seem sentient to me so they fit in the beasts category imo

[blissful harbor]

higher beings are gods

[craggy smelt]

Roots and Sticks, distinct types of beings

[subtle plaza]

We also have like crystal beings or smth from crystal peaks

[cloud mesa]

they call themselves gods

[shell jewel]

what he say

[blissful harbor]

they are functionally gods
they can create life on a whim, reshape the land and other bugs minds

[cloud mesa]

hornet disagrees lol

[blissful harbor]

ofc she does

the child of a god
she gets no say

[subtle plaza]

Hornet disagrees because she's a girlboss

[cloud plover]

gods in hk are not all omnipotent or all powerful like the term usually implies

[shell jewel]

welp mapgenie was right

[fast mesa]

according to the godseekers zote is also a god

[shell jewel]

"Incredibly hard line"

[blissful harbor]

yea it’s not like God capital g

[flint wadi]

god is a loose term

[cloud mesa]

those r just mutant bugs no?

or bugs that have aclimated to crystal climate

[blissful harbor]

godseekers don’t use god like how we use it, to them a god is anything with “godly resonance”
god here meaning deities

[cloud mesa]

okay r there any other matters of creature in hollow knight?

[cloud plover]

silk beings should be included

[cloud mesa]

but silk is soul tho

aint it

[flint wadi]

not quite

[cloud plover]

no

[cold peak]

Those are just bugs that got infested with the crystals which refracted the radiance's infection

[rocky edge]

Ghost mantis

[flint wadi]

a weavers silk contains part of their soul but grandma silk's threads are purely their own thing

well they are her, shes the source of all silk

[fast mesa]

isnt it weird that gms is shaped like a human being?

[cloud mesa]

Ahh ha! Truth, no doubt! In Pharloom, yours is a rare skill, prized beyond measure, to channel one's soul within a thread. Soul and Silk inseparably linked.

[flint wadi]

it is and i just try to not think about it

[lethal burrow]

they are desperate

[blissful harbor]

indeed

[sacred heath]

I’d say she gets the most say actually
she’s seen multiple higher beings firsthand she has experience

[fast mesa]

just had this shower thought

[shell jewel]

Ok I'll just make a list, feel free to add more

Sentient Bugs (People)
Infected Bugs (Radiance Infection)
Haunted Bugs (Silk Haunting)
Beings Made of Pure Silk
Lost Entities (Voided)
Mechanical Constructs (Cogwork)
Fungi (Mushrooms)
Beasts (Animals)
Plasmified (Lifeblood Infection)
Higher Beings (Gods)
Pale Beings (Idk)

[lethal burrow]

lifeblood

[cloud plover]

wyrms and pale beings overlap they aren’t the exact same thing tho

[cloud mesa]

probably could cut infected and haunted bugs to make it more concise

[cloud plover]

so i would add wyrms

[blissful harbor]

that’s what i mean lmao, they have no wonder to her, she’s seen to before they’re normal and very clearly killable

[shell jewel]

plasmified

[blissful harbor]

ofc she doesn’t think they’re anything special

[cloud mesa]

greyroot is a pale being but like evil i feel

[cloud plover]

why do you feel greyroot is a pale beings

literally nothing about him leads me to that conclusion 😭

[cloud mesa]

i feel theres something to her being related to the white lady

[blissful harbor]

if anything greyroot seems to be some kind of similar species

[lethal burrow]

her.

witch of the woods

[cloud mesa]

like shes found in a secluded area with a ball of roots arround her

[cloud plover]

they are both related to roots for sure

[keen compass]

Random question but- its confirmed that Grand Mother Silk is the pale/higher being that gave us weavers right?

[cloud plover]

but pale being is a whole different thing

[flint wadi]

greyroot is living wood

[lethal burrow]

yes

[keen compass]

Does that mean Grand Mother Silk predates the Pale King?

[lethal burrow]

uhhh, as a smol man or a wyrm

[flint wadi]

not really, both are ancient

[cloud mesa]

white lady and grey root are the only other tree girls we know

[keen compass]

Which raises another question- If she does, what happened to her original kingdom so to speak

[cloud plover]

this is her original kingdom afawk

[keen compass]

well, I'd assume as a bug, given hallownest's timeline

[cloud mesa]

is gms god of soul perchance

typo oop

[keen compass]

no

[blissful harbor]

of silk yes, not of soul

[flint wadi]

her original kingdom is pharloom, she established it when she gave pharlids a mind

[blissful harbor]

but HBs aren’t really god of blank in HK, they kinda do whatever

[lethal burrow]

and white lady might only glow because pale king sex or children birth

[cloud mesa]

soul and silk are inseperably linked tho!!!!!!!

[blissful harbor]

aside from like grimm and Rad

[cloud mesa]

yes ty ty ty ty ty

[lethal burrow]

ye for hornet

[flint wadi]

soul being woven into silk is more of a weaver thing methinks, or at least not the full picture for silk in general

[cloud plover]

wl is a pale being

[lethal burrow]

we don't know

[keen compass]

this is wut I was thinking but that'd raise a timeline question:
So the coral area was once filled with water before it became the sands of karak ruled by the khan, same with verdania. So what is the timeline of pharloom's rise, khan's fall, and pharloom's decline?

[cloud mesa]

okay scratch that greyroot is pale but white lady and greyroot r definitly related

[blissful harbor]

we do she’s called one in the first game

[keen compass]

we do know, yes she is a pale being

grand mother silk, white lady, and the pale king are all pale beings

[blissful harbor]

she’s always lumped in with PK, vespa says “those pale beings [..]” referring to WL and Pk

[lethal burrow]

sure

[keen compass]

that's not a sure, that's confirmed

[cloud plover]

😭

[keen compass]

anyways on the topic of this tho

[lethal burrow]

yes

[cloud mesa]

doesnt someone call white lady root

[keen compass]

I been tryin to figure out what the timeline of this is

[blissful harbor]

yes

[cloud plover]

she is higher being of root

[neat crane]

Grimm I think

[cloud mesa]

shes white root and grey root is her sister omg

[blissful harbor]

grimm and the birthplace cutscene both do

[cloud mesa]

i stg

[lethal burrow]

"soul of wyrm, soul of root, heart of void"

[keen compass]

I'd assume verdania and the khan predate pharloom no? tho we do kno higher beings grant bugs conscious thought

[cloud mesa]

grey root is hornets step aunt

[cloud plover]

from all i’ve gathered the timeline is very loose and not really relevant to the story, in the sense that all these places are already dead by the time we get to pharloom

[blissful harbor]

seems so, but HBs aren’t required for that

[keen compass]

well yes, but I am tryna figure out when grand mother silk and her kingdom arrived, as well as the relation to the void civilization

[lethal burrow]

probably

[cloud plover]

i don’t think that you can find those answers with the info we have now

[keen compass]

cuz we know the void civilization exists far before pharloom as well

[cloud plover]

i think tc purposely makes it ambiguous

[flint wadi]

khan's coral empire predates pharloom

theyre the original dwellers

[neat crane]

Ah, fair enough. Grimm also says it though. When he calls the Pale King "worm" (absolute blasphemy)

[keen compass]

btw anyone else find it particularly interesting that where pale kingdoms fall, the void civilization always lies underneath?

[blissful harbor]

i don’t think there’s really a relation to AC, the point of them is that they are like hella old, older than any kingdom before them

[lethal burrow]

talking smack

[cloud plover]

well we don’t know if the void civilization lies everywhere or just under kingdoms

[flint wadi]

i think ancient civilization is just everywhere period

its a thing of gargantuan scale

[blissful harbor]

mask maker talked about their overexpansion

[cloud mesa]

no soul totems in pharloom tho

[keen compass]

not sayin everywhere, but it so far is consistently where a kingdom ruled by a pale being falls

[cloud plover]

i would assume they were everywhere since void is eeveywhere

[flint wadi]

true actually, only the abyss pillar thingies

[cloud plover]

yes but that’s cause we’ve only seen places where a kingdom was created

[cloud mesa]

pharloom's void was covered by a sea of lava so perhaps the anicient civ couldnt come up

[cloud plover]

we would have to see the wastelands to know if the ancient civ was there

[keen compass]

random theory but- you guys think the void civilization knew about the Knight, Hallownest, and Pharloom far before the events happened and fell on purpose to make the void we know today so to speak?

[lime nova]

One thing I've noticed so far is, unless we just haven't found them yet, there's a noticeable lack of secret lore rooms, like the seal of binding in Weaver's Den, or the nursery or workshop in white palace

[ancient dock]

Soul still generates after they died

[lethal burrow]

THE FORESIGHT OF THE BLACKWYRM

(lol)

[lime nova]

Maybe they're just very hidden

[cloud mesa]

i dont thnik that the ancient civ gaf about hallownest

[cloud plover]

there are definitely some, idk if there were as many or as cool as hks tho

[keen compass]

I agree but I do think gave a fuck about the void god

[cloud mesa]

oh and the void god wants shades?

[keen compass]

we know for a fact that the void is a writhing mass of scattered consciousness with little direction unless absolutely necessary

[fast mesa]

maybe but they had to have a way to know it

[flint wadi]

believing in shade lord doesnt equate to knowing when it would come about

[ancient dock]

The game doesn’t need that many imo but what we do find makes sense

[lime nova]

I hope they're just very well hidden.

[keen compass]

no, the void god is the void, and the void to our knowledge became the void god when the knight came into play

[lime nova]

What is there?

[cloud mesa]

the game is so big idk if it needs it

[keen compass]

them having foresight isnt beyond the scope of things given higher beings seem to show this power

[lime nova]

Those secrets felt so fun, I love that they were purely for storytelling

[keen compass]

such as the white lady knowing hornet would need the everbloom and being able to speak through memory

[cloud plover]

only wyrms are said to have foresight

[cloud mesa]

foresight not farsight fyi

[ancient dock]

When you nedolin near the orchestra room you see lace and phantom together implying that they’re sisters, and if you use it in weavernest you see messages

[fast mesa]

but what if white lady has midsight?

[cloud plover]

that

[lime nova]

Oh you meant those, okay

[cloud plover]

is possible

[ancient dock]

But lore bits are mostly in items we pick up

[keen compass]

lace and phantom are sisters, but phantom is older and most likely dying with grand mother silk focusing her resources on tryin to preserve lace given it might be that phantom is too far gone to be saved

[lime nova]

Yea... I do hope there are things we just haven't found

[cloud plover]

everywhere has definitely been explored by the playerbase

[keen compass]

I think grand mother silk cared for both, but phantom was beyond saving so she gave up on her and being a being of some logic focused on saving Lace, who could be saved

We know that Grand Mother Silk needed Hornet for this plan as well

[cloud mesa]

maybe some steel soul secrets

[fast mesa]

ive seen a theory that white lady could have been born as a twisted bud in the wyrm and she could have gotten a bit of his powers or something

[keen compass]

if anything, if we go off the act 3 ending- which is most likely the primary canonical one- GMS might have known all this was going to happen

[cloud plover]

i highly doubt it with this community lol

[lucid fossil]

Does anyone know where the fuck Hornet was being brought to in the beginning? It’s keeping me up brah. The bridge that she broke connects straight to shellwood, why would they want her there 😭

There’s literally nothing in shellwood besides bellhart

[keen compass]

she was being brought to the citadel from shellwood from outside the kingdom

[cloud mesa]

idk about her being born in the wyrm but 100% beleive shes from a twisted bud in something pale

[lucid fossil]

How do you get to the Citadel from that part of the map though? Of course there’s the exhaust organ but why would they bring her into the underworks

[fast mesa]

i mean, if she was a twisted bud in the wyrm, she would have also reached hallownest

[lucid fossil]

Unless we’re just supposed to assume there’s another way to the citadel that we can’t acces 😭😭

[keen compass]

to process her probably, who knows

[cloud mesa]

oh that makes sense

[keen compass]

possibly

[lucid fossil]

I can’t take a ‘possibly!’ I need answers NOW!!! Please… mossbag! Please…!

[fast mesa]

how many higher beings are there in pharloom?

[lucid fossil]

atleast 1 or something

[cloud mesa]

but instead of consuming him, the wyrm just digivolved into pk and survived

[lucid fossil]

I think it’s just the grandmother

[ancient dock]

Mr mushroom and GMS

[fast mesa]

it could have happenend

[lucid fossil]

there’s no mentions of any other higher beings besides grandmother I think

[keen compass]

i mean, she could be being taken to the weaver for processing of some sort, then taken to the citadel

[lucid fossil]

Mushroom man is a higher being??? 😭😭

[cloud mesa]

its not grandmother its grand mother!!!!

[fast mesa]

while in hallownest there are like 4 or 5?

[keen compass]

yes

[ancient dock]

Yes

[lucid fossil]

tomato tomato!

[cloud mesa]

she is a mother that is grand not a grandmother!!!

[lucid fossil]

hallownest has three or something

I forgot white lady was there

[cloud mesa]

llets count

[lucid fossil]

so probably 4 yeah

[fast mesa]

if lace had a child would she be grand grandmother?

[clever rapids]

there's a theory that greyroot is the same species as the white lady

[lucid fossil]

They share no resemblance though whar

[keen compass]

i mean, we could assume the khan, skarrsinger (i forgot her name), and nylea are higher beings actually

[lucid pasture]

there were quite a bit imo. consider that there are many secrets behind needolin scenes too

[clever rapids]

which would mean the white lady was once a parasite that consumed the wyrm

[ancient dock]

Nightmare heart
Umm
Raidence
Mr mushroom
White lady
Pale King

[cloud mesa]

white lady, radiance pk, and unn

[lucid fossil]

Oh yeah, nyleth was probably one. not sure about karmelita though

[keen compass]

the khan, skarrsinger, and nylea on their arrival in their resective locales elevated the beings there somewhat, and were extremely impactful in creating the landscape they ruled

[lime nova]

I've only heard people mention a couple of those tbh

[lucid fossil]

umm ❌ unn ✅

[silent phoenix]

I think Nyleth is a higher being since she literally created Shellwood

[cloud mesa]

tomato tomato

[ancient dock]

Although Mr mushroom and the Nightmare heart are travelers

[lime nova]

I do not think they're higher beings at all

[keen compass]

yea, i think nyleth at the very least is definitely one

[cloud mesa]

mr mushroom definitly is in silksong if hornet knows about him

[lime nova]

They do not remotely show the level of power that higher beings do

[silent phoenix]

But Khan and Karmelita seem like just really strong bugs. Like you don’t call George Washington a higher/elevated being just cause he’s very important to a particular place and helped shape it

[keen compass]

he is in silksong, he's apart of an ending too as a to be continued screen

[lucid fossil]

yeah im sure about nyleth, karmelita is a stretch though. she didn’t really “create” anything or show exceptional power/magic, she was just influential

[cloud mesa]

no he is a higher being in silksong

[keen compass]

he's a higher being in both games

[keen compass]

i mean karmelita elevated the ants clearly and made a civilization that i doubt would exist without her influence

[lucid fossil]

i wish we got more of the sands of karak past version, it looked so beautiful in the trailer but they cut a lot out

[keen compass]

dlc hopefully

[cloud mesa]

u need at least a bit of magic powers to be a higher being

[fast mesa]

well we dont know that actually

[cloud mesa]

we were discussing this earlier and 100% agree

[lucid pasture]

id say there were many secrets but idk how lore heavy they are. the most heavy i can think of is the one in far fields room. tho i think of the guy on citadel that is working running too who is also hidden behind a secret room. theres also the whole cursed lore honestly. theres quite a bit

[lucid fossil]

yeah but is making a civilization the same as using fucky wucky to create them out of thin air? like how Unn created sentient life and greenpath, nightmare heart made sentient life and the troupe, pale king made sentient life and stole hallownest, nyleth made shellwood

[fast mesa]

there is no formal description of higher being

[keen compass]

does unn have magic powers lol

[ancient dock]

Pretty sure Karmelita just shaped the landscape but if you talk to a NPC after Hornet kills her Hornets says the area I assume Far field will just grow more and the landscape will be more greener

[lucid fossil]

and who the flip is sister splinter…

[lucid fossil]

yes

[fast mesa]

well she dreamed a land and it became true lol

[cloud mesa]

making greenpath and surrounding areas?

those plants dont have sunlight whats feeding em? unnnnnnnn

[keen compass]

then nyleth is def a higher being

[lucid pasture]

the area above Styx and above Lugoli comes to my mind too

[lucid fossil]

yeah I’d assume so

[fast mesa]

probably, yeah

[lucid fossil]

ion know tho… i just Want Mossbag To Make A Video PLEASE!

Please moss I need thisss!!!

[lucid pasture]

Did nyleth do that wdym

[lucid fossil]

The silksong lore was so unclear for me compared to hk

[lucid fossil]

im just assuming she made shellwood, my memory is a bit foggy but it said something about that in the journal entry

[keen compass]

karmelita's voice could arguably have magical powers, we see that far field during her reign, when she sang and could fight- its clear the ants were of a higher sentience and proper kingdom

[fast mesa]

just a couple more months buddy, we're almost there

[lucid fossil]

NOOO

[keen compass]

as she declined due to GMS, we see that her power waned

[keen compass]

nyleth is the entire reason shellwood exists

[lucid pasture]

I think thats just because Hornet cut pharlooms free from Silk tho

[lucid fossil]

did anyone else have trouble fighting her b’coz they were genuinely entranced by the vocals??? just me??? siiiighh…

[keen compass]

and arguably mosshome

[lucid pasture]

is this from her journal or smth else? i dont remember that

[keen compass]

given where we FIND nyleth, her existence may have in fact made the marrow, mosshome, and shellwood

[fast mesa]

he's cooking

[ancient dock]

It an NPC in the same room as Karmelita room

[cloud plover]

i highly doubt nyleth is a higher being if karmelita and khann aren’t

[cold peak]

Silking Song

[cloud plover]

but it’s clear she’s closely related to all of shellwood

[keen compass]

see, i say she made the marrow purely by existing, given the marrow exists below shellwood

[reef cloud]

she’s like how unn is to greenpath

[lucid pasture]

Maintaining is not creating tho

[keen compass]

she created it

[lucid fossil]

yeah but nyleth seems like she’s more attached to her land and it’s living beings compared to others

[cloud plover]

yea i said i dont think she’s a higher being

i doubt she created shellwood

[lucid fossil]

Well Yeah But it kinda needs to go on a hunch here

[ancient dock]

I don’t think Nyleth is a higher being

[keen compass]

then unn didnt create greenpath if u go by that logic

[lucid pasture]

i just saw rhis information on the wiki too but where does itcome from ¿

[lucid fossil]

there’s probably some lore tablet somewhere

[keen compass]

the text, she is the heart of shellwood

[cloud plover]

no it’s explicitly stated that all life in green path is born from the mind of unn

[cloud mesa]

my theory is white lady is a parasite from a distant land that grabbed onto the wyrm on its travvels, and led to the wyrms evolution to pk. when it went to eat the wyrm, (because wyrms dont die they transform) the wyrm became pk and the white lady was born

[fast mesa]

i think from the "ancient heart..." text

[keen compass]

meaning its existence starts with her

her absence is why shellwood is in great decline

[lucid fossil]

did anyone else notice the lack of things you could inspect in silksong? i saw like 2 things (not including signs) and im 92% done, both were late in the game

[cloud mesa]

unn is like giving all greenpath bugs something to photsynthesis on like shes not just a fun snail

[clever rapids]

but the twisted bud killed both hornet n grandmother no

[cloud plover]

ok but nyleth could’ve had a million different plant babies, unn is a higher being because she conjured green path with her mind

[lucid pasture]

id say that comes just from maintaining it imo and does not really mean she created it. unn has texts saying they created it.
but its a valid interpretation of that anyways if you want to view it like that

[clever rapids]

also, why did greyroot die for the twisted bud

[keen compass]

it'd be a nice theory if the lore of hk didnt completely negate it

[lucid fossil]

part of the ritual i guess

[keen compass]

the pale king CHOSE to shed his wyrm form and become a bug

[cloud mesa]

idk if hornet is wyrm enough to transform instead of dying lol

[lucid fossil]

maybe it’s similar to Grimm and grimmchild

[fast mesa]

so what if she came from the colosseum bug?

[cloud mesa]

oh that also works!

[fast mesa]

his skeleton would seem more "woodlike" than pk's

[keen compass]

the pale lady is also nothing like the parasite present in silksong

[lucid fossil]

^

[keen compass]

so the theory has no weight or base

[lucid fossil]

why are you guys comparing them

[lucid pasture]

its because both are root

[lucid fossil]

guys they both have roots they’re same person

yeah LOL

[cloud mesa]

shes pale root and shes greyroot

[keen compass]

yes but very very diff kind of roots

[fast mesa]

theres a theory going around that white lady would have infected pk or something

[cloud mesa]

both in huts in forests made out of their roots

[lucid fossil]

that is the doopidest

[keen compass]

and there's lifeblood roots, are they all related now lol

[cloud plover]

i mean there is clearly some connection, even if very loose

[cloud mesa]

why r u pretending like these parreles dont exist

[fast mesa]

so she could have gotten some part of his pale stuff

[lucid pasture]

Ofc lol i dont believe it myself but dont think its unreasonable to think she also came from something like a parasite considering what we learned abt greyroot

[keen compass]

because they don't lol

[cloud mesa]

they're both binded up

they have similar eyes

[keen compass]

the pale lady also wasn't originally bound and wasn't originally in that form lol

[lucid fossil]

im sure there’s a type of “root” species and greyroot nd paleroot are both apart of it but i dont think they’re the same

[cloud plover]

the connections exist but to make any implications on the connection that they are both root would not make sense, too loose a connection

[fast mesa]

its not a perfect theory but its a theory nonetheless lol

[cloud mesa]

they both have babies

idk

[keen compass]

there is zero connection here

[cloud plover]

there is definitely a connection

[lucid fossil]

they both breathe

[cloud plover]

it is loose but it is there

[fast mesa]

they both have somesight

[keen compass]

by your logic, the lifeblood 'roots' are also connected lol

[cloud mesa]

their color named root girls with important babies who live in forests in small shacks made out of their own roots theres a connection

[ancient dock]

The only thing that they have in common is that they are both plant like beings

[keen compass]

^

[cloud plover]

exactly

[keen compass]

there's nothing there lol

[cloud plover]

there is something there there is just nothing substantial

they are both beings of wooden root

and they are the only ones we know about

[lucid pasture]

Id say it would have a connection if there was a lifeblood root sentient being tho

[modest coyote]

mosgt likely cause hornet dont have dream powers

[lucid fossil]

What

[keen compass]

there is a higher being behind lifeblood, yes

[keen compass]

she does

[lucid pasture]

who wtf

[modest coyote]

not to the same extent

[lucid fossil]

isn’t that the abyss creature you see in the lifeblood core room

[keen compass]

we don't know

[modest coyote]

some big dog looking thing

[fast mesa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1nn0b7g/massive_lore_drops_that_im_surprised_i_havent
this is the reddit post with the theory

[reef cloud]

big bug you see in godhome

[keen compass]

we don't know

[cloud mesa]

twinssss

[cloud plover]

probably but not confirmed

[lucid fossil]

confident it is, since you also see them in godhome

[keen compass]

they look nothing alike

[cloud mesa]

both binded up no arms

[keen compass]

we can be confident it is, but we dont know for sure

[keen compass]

the white lady isn't bound

[modest coyote]

greyroot is white lady esque

[keen compass]

thats her dress from the concept art

[modest coyote]

she is!

[cloud mesa]

where are her arms????

[lucid fossil]

ackshually it’s plasminum! 🤓

[keen compass]

not in that art

[fast mesa]

not always

[reef cloud]

not in that form tho

[cloud mesa]

both of these girls dont have arms

[keen compass]

under her dress/cloak

[cloud mesa]

more evidence...

[keen compass]

she does have arms

[lucid fossil]

yu guys know he’s Ragebaiting Rite

[cloud mesa]

now who wears dress that cover arms

[keen compass]

oh

[lucid fossil]

😭

[keen compass]

he's just being stupid on purpose xD

my b lol

[ancient dock]

We actually don’t know what the white lady looked like before being bound though

[cloud mesa]

ik girl they're obviously related

[keen compass]

we do cuz of concept art

[lucid fossil]

she looked like a big ahh tree!

[keen compass]

also statues

[cloud mesa]

greyroot knows a lil about being a tree...

[fast mesa]

i dont think it should be taken as cannon

[modest coyote]

pale king when. he angry at his wife "make like a tree and leave!" ahh

[lucid fossil]

my question is how did pale king and white lady create vessels together, girl is a tree

[ancient dock]

^

[keen compass]

true but we also know by her own chair that she wasn't always like that

[keen compass]

cuz she wasn't in that form beforehand

[cloud mesa]

cut content but no arms

[modest coyote]

in australia a slang word for fuckin is "root"

[blissful harbor]

i don’t think a single statue of WL exists thinking about it

[teal finch]

her appearance in godhome is pretty telling

[fast mesa]

true

[lucid fossil]

In beta version

[keen compass]

we know by canon that the white lady EXPLICITLY bound herself when things went to shit to stop herself from procreating

[reef cloud]

white lady in smol form

[keen compass]

it was in this state her roots began to grow and overgrow

[fast mesa]

but thats her overpowered god like super sayan form

[cloud mesa]

i dont think i see arms in this

[lucid fossil]

ts lore freaky brahh 😭😭

[cloud mesa]

oh wrong reply my b

[blissful harbor]

her roots are her arms

[modest coyote]

hallownest lore is freaky pharloom lore is evil

[keen compass]

do you think the pale king has no arms?

[blissful harbor]

alternatively
telekinesis

[modest coyote]

nobody is fuckin in pharloom!

[lucid pasture]

i assume its smth mentioned in og HK? i dont know much lore abt it honestly not gonna go into there. from little knowledge if it is somehwat "root sentient being" id say it also is intended some level of relationship between them tho

[lucid fossil]

broodmofher in slab

[keen compass]

"WE NEVER SEE THE PALE KING'S ARMS, HE DOESNT HAVE ARMS, ALSO GREYROOT RELATED"

[cloud mesa]

now thats a good pint

[lucid fossil]

pale king is ARMLESS!

[modest coyote]

very clearly not

[blissful harbor]

PK has statues depicting himself with arms
and all his kids have the same amount of limbs, which they certainly don’t get from their mothers

[keen compass]

the white lady has arms lol

[cloud mesa]

nvm i didnt know about those statues

[fast mesa]

yeah i was just saying that her concept arts shouldn't be taken as cannon but i agree that she was small and all

[ancient dock]

No his statue is so small and I guess his very fragile he doesn’t use them

[blissful harbor]

she could, she also could not she’s a plant idk why assume she does

armless until proven otherwise

[keen compass]

why would we assume she doesn't? how would she eat at the table lol

[fast mesa]

nyleth has no arms

[cloud plover]

wl also has the same shiny eyes as greyroot

[blissful harbor]

she’s a plant

[cloud plover]

we see these shiny eyes nowhere else in the game

[blissful harbor]

also like you assume arms are the only way to move stuff

she could use her roots

[keen compass]

lol people going full conspiracy tryin to connect greyroot and the white lady when they have no relation whatsoever lmfao

[cloud plover]

they absolutely do you tripping

[keen compass]

the greyroot parasite also behaves in a particular and specific way

[blissful harbor]

they’re both roots, the relation is there it’s just not very strong
they’re very different, but similar

[teal finch]

you cant say theres 0 basis for thr argument though, that just seems disingenuous and not in the spirit of discussing lore in general lol

[reef cloud]

mhm shapeshifting gods but they defo can’t grow arms

[cloud plover]

they aren’t the same thing but to think there is 0 connection at all doesn’t make sense to me

[keen compass]

by this same vein of logic, lifeblood is ALSO apart of this discussion

[blissful harbor]

how

[cloud plover]

lifeblood is not wooden

[modest coyote]

there is more evidence WL is related to greyroot than there is the snail are ancient civ

[keen compass]

has roots of lifeblood!

[teal finch]

holy based

[blissful harbor]

lifeblood is never described as a root
root is a very specific term

[keen compass]

how do u know that

[blissful harbor]

like youre not arguing in good faith lmao

[cloud plover]

it’s liquid

[cloud mesa]

i feel like theres much more evidence for gre root and white lady being cousins than many hollow knight musings

[keen compass]

its also root when invades a location

[blissful harbor]

it’s not just oh looks similar

[modest coyote]

true

[cloud plover]

i guess so, definitely not the same wood in shellwood or wueens gardens tho

[lucid pasture]

its not abt root in a "real" sense its about being called a root being id say

[cold peak]

I always interpreted it as the roots being like, the pipelines for lifeblood.

[shell jewel]

https://youtu.be/OJHYPNzKtUQ

[modest coyote]

why white lady is a tree

[cloud mesa]

if there was a girl who lived in a hut in the woods made out of her own wood called lifeblood root i would be inclined to think she's related too

[keen compass]

this is fair, but they are clearly not connected. they're just a type of species like bug is for example

[cold peak]

Lmao

[keen compass]

see, now this makes WAY more sense than the greyroot thing lol

[modest coyote]

i told u im australian

[cloud mesa]

grimm calls her root

[modest coyote]

in hallownest they be fuckin

[keen compass]

ngl, prob means wut @modest coyote posted

[modest coyote]

[cloud mesa]

wait a minute

[shell jewel]

HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE DIRTMOUTH CMON SAY IT

[cold peak]

This would explain her King Kong-sized libido

[cloud plover]

@keen compass ngl when the dlc comes out and we get info on greyroot being connected to white lady imma have to reply to this convo

[keen compass]

team cherry is sometimes just not that deep outside of a pun

[cloud mesa]

those devs are australian

[modest coyote]

dirt mouth wdym

[keen compass]

oh wowzer, can't wait for you to be completely wrong, wanna bet money too? :3

[fast mesa]

australian grimm confirmed?

[cloud plover]

i’ll bet 50$

[keen compass]

sure, better pay up

[shell jewel]

WHY DOES BLUESR PRONOUNCE IT "Dirtmith"

RAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[cloud mesa]

reddit agrees with me smh

[lucid pasture]

I feel like being the same species is exactly what people are talking abt here tho somewhat. Not actual direct connection, just that they are maybe the same type of thing. Like how there are many pale beings yk

[modest coyote]

cause in the UK thats how places r called

[shell jewel]

fucking hell no they aren't

[cloud plover]

pretty much everyone but this person agrees with you that they are connected in some way

[modest coyote]

yeah it is

[keen compass]

ima be real, i think its just slang and 'root' in this context for the white lady is just about her fucking

[cloud mesa]

also the eyes

[shell jewel]

he isn't even british

[cloud mesa]

they both are maskless with gleamy eyes

[modest coyote]

hey idk why

[cloud plover]

exactly

[blissful harbor]

do you actually believe that

[cloud mesa]

the focal point of their lore is breeding

[modest coyote]

white lady is called root cause she is a tree, and trees have roots

its not that complicated guys

[brisk plaza]

sorry to pop in during an active discussion but does anyone know the lore behind the ant merchant in hunters march being killed? it looked similar to the weapons used by the others of the ant tribe but i dont get why they would jump him

[cloud mesa]

im like 60/40 rn on what the white lady being called root means

[keen compass]

they aren't connected, and if they are, its so so so loose and purely naming convention

[teal finch]

im agnostic to the greyroot/wl parallels but to say that there is 0 evidence for this theory kind of dismisses the fact that both greyroot and wl are obsessed with propagation.

wl literally binds herself so that her roots dont spread far. meanwhile, the ending cutscene by beating gms while cursed depicts the entire cradle being engulfed in roots. in a way it kind of depicts what potentially could have happened if wl didnt bind herself.

[modest coyote]

its an ant eat ant world

[cloud mesa]

grey root or australian pun hmmm

[blissful harbor]

too soft, he had to go

[fast mesa]

they could be possesed by the void

[lucid pasture]

thats a possibility tbh but i feel like being root kinda means smth in the same sense being pale means smth in universe personally

[cloud plover]

clearly this convo won’t change ur mind let’s just wait for more info so i can get my money 😭

[keen compass]

i will say, if we go off the ending, the wish name, and the achievement- its simpler than u think

[lethal burrow]

he was selling to outsiders

[modest coyote]

it means old

if i say someone is the "root" of smth it means cause or origin

[lucid pasture]

no lol😭

[modest coyote]

WL is the cause of all ts

she fcuked around and had a bajillion kids who are now doing a bunch of stuff

[cloud mesa]

when the vessels were made, white lady got superchared with pale energy like how hornet's parasite gets supercharged with silk energy in the twisted child ending, but white lady binded herself so that it wouldn't spread out everywhere and destroy hallownest new theory

[teal finch]

wait cook

[cloud plover]

i thought wl bound herself to stop having kids

[modest coyote]

yeah

[brisk plaza]

is it really because he was softer compared to others ants? if so thats super sad

it makes a bit of sense though, the ants remind me of the mantis tribe with how they operate/tight-knit they are and general aggression towards outsiders

[modest coyote]

tbh we dont know yet why he died

[cloud mesa]

thats why shes stuck in her bind and cant move, because pale energy is exploding out of her like the twisted child ending and it needs to be contained

[modest coyote]

i dont actually think its an ant who killed it, cause little ants are shown to move the corpses of dead ants

[teal finch]

the mottled ants are afflicted with some unspecified sickness iirc

[modest coyote]

so if other ants killed it, its corpse wouldve moved

[brisk plaza]

im on his area right now actually and theres no ants on the ground!

[teal finch]

but the skarr merchant i think was killed

[brisk plaza]

so i think this is an exception because all other ants are in an area where there are smaller ants to carry them off yes

[keen compass]

the thing implanted in hornet is called 'the twisted bud', and the wish itself is calld 'rite of rebirth' , and the ending is called 'twisted child'

The implication is very simple- this is a child of greyroot in some sense, that when it is near GMS lashes out and consumes her power plus hornet for assumedly a new higher being to be born from their union. This is further backed up by the sounds we hear, the banging followed by a monster's scream. The twisted child is born from their union, and something new has enter pharloom from this quest. This rite of rebirth.

[cloud mesa]

are the ants like wishiwashi from pokemon?

[modest coyote]

idk what that is

[keen compass]

The relation to WL doesn't exist as they share no real actual relation outside of just the word 'root', and uh- that's it

[reef cloud]

could be because the ants are territorial over their goods so they got mad he was sellin em to hornet

[lucid pasture]

the ants with that different colors are also somewhat persecuted apparently and that might also have smth to do with it

[keen compass]

The way the WL and her kin behave are extremely different from anything greyroot to the point they can be considered completely unrelated

[blissful harbor]

both have a desire to spread themselves, both are found in a hit made entirely of roots, and both posses that very distinct eye shape there is no relation is like actually just insane

[keen compass]

the twisted child ending is definitely very freaky tho given we never what just got brought into the world

[cloud mesa]

u thought i was rage baiting but 悪女 was the rage baiter al along

[blissful harbor]

they are different yes, but they clearly apart of the same species lmao

[cloud plover]

they share the theme of roots, they both live in a similar wooden root structure, they both have glistening eyes that are found nowhere else, both are bound to where they are albeit for different reasons

[brisk plaza]

that sounds really interesting, do you remember where you read that?

[cloud plover]

it’s not like the word root is the only connection

[blissful harbor]

like yes if we close our eyes they share no relation

[teal finch]

ill try to pull it up rly quick

[keen compass]

the focus on eye shape is negligible given it can just be a reused asset for female bugs given karmelita seems to share in this kinda

[blissful harbor]

????

carmelita has giant eyelashes and her eyes are closed last i checked

[keen compass]

prob can find more bugs that use the same eye type

[blissful harbor]

you cannot, you’re welcome to try

[fast mesa]

i dont think there are

[keen compass]

they don't live in a real similar structure at all either

greyroot is a witch living in a hut in the middle of nowhere like so many NPCs in pharloom

By that similar vein of logic, every character in pharloom that lives in a hut similar to greyroot's is also root related

[blissful harbor]

made entirely out of roots, just like WLs
like you’re ignoring the actual points

[blissful harbor]

you gotta be rage baiting
am i falling for it i can’t be

[cloud plover]

these areas look similar to me

[cloud mesa]

me personally both being called root works for me

[keen compass]

I am not rage baiting, I am being actually logical lol

[vague whale]

wow this guy is engaging in totally bad faith huh

[blissful harbor]

youre not youre ignoring every point

[cloud plover]

what other characters live in a hut similar to greyeoot???

[vague whale]

you're not being logical in the slightest

[modest coyote]

fuck ur rihgt

[keen compass]

I am not, your points just hold little water outside of some very loose design elements and a name reuse

[blissful harbor]

???

[lucid pasture]

i would say team cherry would have to be rlly stupid to put that in the game and not expect people to draw any comparisons and thats reason enough for me to believe thst there probably is smth between them imo

[modest coyote]

the way the roots curve is the exact fuckin same

[keen compass]

I have been, I even explained how greyroot's progeny works vs white lady's

[cloud mesa]

it being a pun also works as an explanation dw

[regal moss]

Flea warrior or whatever her name is

[lime nova]

I definitely see where y'all are coming from with the theory

[keen compass]

if they were in fact related, why doesn' the white lady do anything similar to that of the twisted child ending? lol

[blissful harbor]

“loose design elements@ and it’s very clear design choices found nowhere else
and again a name used for a literal god found nowhere else

[cloud mesa]

i just dont think there are 2 completly unrelated tree girls tha look similar with similar names that's existence is defined by reproducing

[cloud plover]

that is definitely a man made hut tho with materials and stuff, the other 2 are purely wooden root

[blissful harbor]

that’s like reusing Wyrm and being like oh it means nothing

[fast mesa]

because thei're different

[modest coyote]

cause one is a higher being and the other isnt

[blissful harbor]

you can’t possible be serious

[lime nova]

Also Hornet literally says greyroot is not a bug

[keen compass]

greyroot not being a higher being is possibly debatable actually

[fast mesa]

no one is saying they're actually the same or directly related

[modest coyote]

i imagine the relationship between greyroot and whitelady is SOMETHING like weavers and GMS

[lucid pasture]

this isnt rlly fair argument theres many reasons this could be

[vague whale]

they might not be serious, tbh, they could be baiting

[teal finch]

this is from the silksong all text dump, unfortunately i dont know what specific npc or enemy this is from aside from it being needolin dialogue from an ant. it could be the mottled skarr merchant but i cant confirm this

[fast mesa]

just that they're really similar in some regards

[teal finch]

skarr merchant is named another thing in the text dump anyways

[modest coyote]

tbh greyroot is a dark souls reference

[lime nova]

God we need the exhaust organ mirror sprite name

[keen compass]

I am saying that the relation is negligible and at the best, they are just apart of the same brand of species like how ants and weavers are both bugs, these two are both 'root'

[brisk plaza]

i also just cracked open my hunters journal to try and figure it out on my own, but both the skar stalker and skarrwing imply that the skarr tribe have been brought into the haunting. since we've seen examples of bugs continuing their habits under less severe cases of the infection/haunting, i think this might ring true to a degree. not to mention, the hunters journal in both games made it extremely clear that bugs unaffected by the haunting/infection are treated with aggression by bugs who are.

so!! most likely answer from my research is that another ant affected by the haunting either cut him down because he wasnt also under the bind of silk, or because of whatever is causing his shell to be that color, if not both

[hazy crag]

is the first one from hollow knight? I think I missed it lol What's it called

[lethal burrow]

rootbeer

[cloud mesa]

no arms 2 glossy eyes and apppendages coming out of heads

[cloud plover]

but you went from saying there is 0 connection but the name to saying they could be part of the same species

[vague whale]

I absolutely agree with that

[teal finch]

wait found the skarr merchant's needolin dialogue

[modest coyote]

both darksouls references. (this is a meta thing not saying theyre related)

[brisk plaza]

GIVE PLEASE

[keen compass]

all greyroot's existence tells us is that they are other 'root' beings most likely, but WL has no real relation to greyroot, and they honestly might not even be the same species. Greyroot in this case could be a reference to the literal parasitical nature of greyroot, and its not actual root, but rather a parasite that feeds on root beings/higher beings in some regard, tho we won't know till more info comes out

[teal finch]

this one happens to actually be on the wiki

[cloud plover]

yes it’s in the queens gardens

[lethal burrow]

"i want to explain how harrah is a weaver and the little weavers"

monkey paw curls, greyroot white lady war.

[lucid pasture]

1. Being of the same brand of species IS somewhat of a relation and is what people mostly are arguing for here.
2. Im related to you in being a human being, if i kill a person this doesnt mean we are less related as human beings because you didnt kill anyone yk

[cloud mesa]

all of silksong is a metroid reference and that does not matter

[keen compass]

i literally said they are at most apart of the same species TYPE ages ago and originally

[modest coyote]

herrah being a weaver is fine, the little weavers are cursed to explain

[brisk plaza]

WHO IS HER??? IS THERE AN ANT QUEEN LIKE THE HIVE OR DID HE HAVE A LOVER IM GONNA MALD

[lethal burrow]

i managed it

[modest coyote]

ok do it

[teal finch]

have you finished act 3?

[brisk plaza]

there hasn't been a single whiff of a queen ant im gonna go rabid when did he say that

[vague whale]

wait have you not seen...

[cloud plover]

so if they are the same species there isn’t 0 connection?

[brisk plaza]

,,,,no.

[minor lily]

hello homosexual chat, so, what are the theorys about the possible dlc?

[brisk plaza]

WHAT HAPPENS WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT ACT 3

[teal finch]

https://tenor.com/view/klasik-clasik-clasic-gif-25398314

i cant say more

[vague whale]

A LOT HAPPENS

[blissful harbor]

city of steel 100%

[keen compass]

i am saying there is no other relation beyond that, and that greyroot honestly might not even be an actual root creature given her behaviour and her progeny's behaviour, more likely a parasite of roots- hence the explicit name 'grey' root

[cloud mesa]

can we table this white lady grey lady sisterhood dicussion and can we discuss hornet being samus and weavers being chozo

[brisk plaza]

IM GONNA MALD NOOOOO

[teal finch]

i shant say more

[brisk plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/crash-out-strangle-over-it-im-done-wtf-gif-5733066100478599257

[ancient dock]

Make it to act 3 first boy

[brisk plaza]

yes sir...

[minor lily]

yall think they will be a 3rd game? i expecting a dlc

[cloud plover]

i think first dlc is very likely to be an act 4 where you can finish the npcs storylines and fix up the towns and stuff

[vague whale]

Wait what's the Crack That Egg!! dlc idea

[modest coyote]

OK BUT THOSE ARE SIMILAR GAME-MECHANIC WISE

[hazy crag]

Oooh yeah, where the White Lady lives. I had a brain fart moment

[cloud mesa]

crack that (arcane) egg with hornet's shaman needolin song

[reef cloud]

finally some real evidence

[cloud plover]

lol it happens

[fast mesa]

YEAH LOL

[vague whale]

aw I was hoping we'd get a forcefem dlc

[minor lily]

i hate that mf

[teal finch]

related to this i took eva as a metroid reference (w alan calling samus lady all the time)

[vague whale]

the arcane egg is cool too though...

[fast mesa]

which one

[teal finch]

the weavenests in general were very metroid vibes to me

[ancient dock]

I’m expecting exspansion DLC like the first game where they add new bosses and a pantheon or boss rush of sorts

[keen compass]

i dont think this is too likely

[lucid pasture]

thats understandable. point is that we are arguing that they are at least of the same species at least. if you can accept that theres not anything to argue for. no one is saying you have to believe that either lore in this game is purpousefully ambiguous. people will interpret things differently thats fine

[cold peak]

Ave, true to Caesar

[cloud plover]

why not

[cloud mesa]

no it was moreso on the idea of seeing into the apst of the void/void civ and getting more vague info for us to ponder about

[keen compass]

wut would we fight lol

[cloud plover]

i think the state that the game leaves off in is BEGGING for an act 4

[modest coyote]

HOLD on

[teal finch]

who are we forcefemming

[lethal burrow]

.

The little Weavers are never directly stated to be children. maybe since the infection makes you more beastly... more base, that the infection is slowly reverting the Weavers back to their original feral forms and that's why they're shrinking.

[minor lily]

the bald one 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[modest coyote]

why is twisted bud "ashen vine" ?

[keen compass]

i disagree, it kinda ends relatively tied up ina semi neat bow

[vague whale]

give me some suggestions

[cloud mesa]

at least an act 3.5 thats cleaned up

[teal finch]

i think forcefem would fix zote

[modest coyote]

ok but that still is not an easy explainaiton bc we never get any reference to that in hk

[cloud plover]

yes this is what i’m thinking but if they did that, they would def add a new final boss too, they wouldn’t just release a dlc for the state of pharloom

[lucid pasture]

everyone is a girl on this shit theres not anyone to forcefem (sherma)

[minor lily]

i mean sure, but it will be cool to save pharloom or find a way to fight the void

[vague whale]

I have a friend I successfully forcefemmed who has had a Zote PFP for years

[hazy crag]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-5901093615015223817

[lethal burrow]

picky eater over here

[teal finch]

the prophhecy...

[vague whale]

yeah let's do sherma

[cloud mesa]

is there a way to remove this symbol yet?

[cloud plover]

it ends like that but you never get to experience the world like that, everytime a player goes back in everything is covered in void and everyone is scared

[ancient dock]

A 3rd is out of the question for now but if they do I would like a prequel to both games with it being about the ancient civilisation and void

[lofty otter]

I feel like they could easily add like a small new area with a new weavenest where you use the silk you’ve collected from bosses to refight them

[fast mesa]

beat the game

[minor lily]

complete the game

[fast mesa]

thats how it vanished for me

[keen compass]

goin back to wut i said before- greyroot might honestly not be an actual root creature like the white lady, but a parasite that commonly feeds on it and higher beings that got the moniker of 'root' for how it functions. We see this in real life actually, i looked up some examples cuz i was certain this exists in real life, it does. you have things like ringworm, sea lice, wahle louse- which aren't worms or insects but called this due to how they function and look like

[minor lily]

for me changes to a hornet symbol

[cloud mesa]

im guessing it signifies void being around in act 3 and a act 3.5 would remove it and purge void of pharloom

[brisk plaza]

so ive heard...

[cloud mesa]

or beat act 3

[keen compass]

we know for a fact greyroot is a parasitical monster

so honestly, 'greyroot' is 9 times out 10, not actual root

[cloud mesa]

yess ty

[vague whale]

what in the world do you mean

[minor lily]

i hopes not a prequel, maybe some time travel shit to the origin od the void or some shit, but i want a conclusion for hornet

[modest coyote]

ok but u know who ELSE makes u do a rebirth ritual? Grimm.

[keen compass]

'goin back to wut i said before- greyroot might honestly not be an actual root creature like the white lady, but a parasite that commonly feeds on it and higher beings that got the moniker of 'root' for how it functions. We see this in real life actually, i looked up some examples cuz i was certain this exists in real life, it does. you have things like ringworm, sea lice, wahle louse- which aren't worms or insects but called this due to how they function and look like'

[modest coyote]

truth nuke btw

[cloud mesa]

weavers r chozo hornet is samus and gms is that guy from dread

[minor lily]

yall in this chat the spoilers are allowed right?

[vague whale]

yes, which is not true

[keen compass]

i am saying greyroot might be to white lady what ringworm is to us

[teal finch]

ya

[modest coyote]

yes

[lethal burrow]

yes

[keen compass]

why do you say that

[minor lily]

thank yall

[modest coyote]

ok but u know who ELSE makes u do a rebirth ritual? Grimm.

[vague whale]

Have you looked at Greyroot

[keen compass]

greyroot is purely a parasite, and nothing more, we know that at the least

[keen compass]

yes, and she is LITERALLY a parasite

[cloud mesa]

she cooks

[rugged sigil]

pokemon evolution line lmao

[lethal burrow]

she is the witch of the woods

[teal finch]

truth nuke

[blissful harbor]

well it’s clearly something more lmao it took over a HB

[vague whale]

we, uh, do not know the "and nothing more" part, no thank you

[keen compass]

and is a parasite lol

[lethal burrow]

oh FUCK YEAH

[ancient dock]

Who knows but I’m good with either

[modest coyote]

grey root is actually grimm

[vague whale]

TRUE!!!

[lethal burrow]

and the witch of the woods

[keen compass]

i never said the parasite isn't somethin more in terms of power

[hazy crag]

why you here on discord where you can get spoilers before finishing the game? lol
I only joined here after I finishes HK and SS 😂

[minor lily]

Im really excited for the continue in the change of ages ending

[keen compass]

if you actually read what i say- ima assume u didn't lol

[fast mesa]

well you destroyed the hb first so i dont know if it counts

[lethal burrow]

i read

[keen compass]

I am sayin greyroot is most likely named akin to ringworm

[blissful harbor]

yes i read

[keen compass]

is ringworm ACTUALLY a worm? no lol but its called ringworm

[vague whale]

Have you looked at Greyroot

[keen compass]

greyroot's true appearance is nothing like the white lady for example

[cloud plover]

bruh

[keen compass]

have you looked at her true form when she wraps around hornet and implants the bud in her

[rugged sigil]

they have the same eyes though

[cloud mesa]

if there was another root that was much more like white lady without a wyrm connection perchance

[brisk plaza]

the discord practically stones anyone to death who drops major spoilers willy nilly + it's a lorr channel where im asking for info im expecting at least minor spoilers

[rugged sigil]

same eyes

[lethal burrow]

are snail shaped and i have are you able too grow them in soil

[cloud mesa]

also ty all for defending my greyroot is related to white lady theory earlier no one agreed with me lol

[keen compass]

greyroot may feign looking like a root creature to piggyback/breed with higher beings to produce twisted progeny

[lethal burrow]

good catch actually

[rugged sigil]

then it being in hornet is sus as hell

[keen compass]

like what the fuck is this monstrosity

[modest coyote]

see my issue is this is greyroot as a baby right?

[vague whale]

you're not even being consistent with your claims now

[cloud mesa]

greyroot doesnt go "come here we gonna make vessels together to save the kingdom uwu" tho

[keen compass]

most likely, given its called 'rite of rebirth'

[cloud mesa]

she isn't feigning anything

[minor lily]

i mean probably some kind of infection too?

[lucid pasture]

i find that hard to believe for meta reasons like HK is a lore based game and unlike real life it survives entirely on making theories so id think when Team cherry makes a sequel to a game where there is a "Root being important character" and gives it the biggest sidequest of it to a character named Greyroot they probably meant smth with it.
Or maybe not, whatever

[lethal burrow]

the witch of the woods

[modest coyote]

do we really think this is what WL looks like as a baby?

[keen compass]

i am being consistent actually if u read

[keen compass]

no, i am saying that is literally greyroot as a child

[rugged sigil]

unrelated but

[cloud mesa]

yk familes come in different shapes and sizes

[keen compass]

and she implanted herself inside of hornet

[vague whale]

I am reading, which is why I know you're being inconsistent

[keen compass]

for the rite of rebirth

[lethal burrow]

[modest coyote]

ok but if we are saying WL is related to greyroot

[fast mesa]

well we dont know what happened in the royal bedroom

[keen compass]

I haven't, you just seem to not be reading lol

[modest coyote]

then greyroot should look like WL as babies

[vague whale]

hmmmm perhaps

[keen compass]

i'm not

[lucid pasture]

DEVIL

[cloud mesa]

pls team cherry release the royal bedroom memory we need to know

[keen compass]

i am saying that most likely greyroot is just a parasite named for root based on wut she LOOKS like, not what she is

and is a red herring lol

[rugged sigil]

i mean we havent seen the white lady as a baby/seed

[minor lily]

the thing that dissapoint me the most is that the coral zone was not in the final game

[fast mesa]

they have no reason to do that as a red herring

[keen compass]

similar to how ringworm looks like a worm but uh- def isnt a worm lol

[hazy crag]

The lore is kinda hinting at it lol

[keen compass]

they have plenty reason actually lol especially if the parasite part is very true

[cloud mesa]

no cuz we'll probably never know how boney caterpiller man and glowing ARMLESS tree lady made it work

[keen compass]

we know for a fact greyroot is a parasitical creature

[modest coyote]

not hinting its confirmed lol

[keen compass]

greyroot is LITERALLY a parasite lol