sk-lore

[heavy falcon]

So GMS was able to manipulate soul into this new form?

[craggy bison]

oh let me check

[humble iron]

That's your headcanon and that's alright, personally I am skeptical

[robust wagon]

Specifically cold tho for some reason

[autumn grail]

that would kind of support GMS being a pale being since Silk = Soul apparently, as i learned here today

[craggy bison]

i mean they are made in mount fay so

[robust wagon]

Yeah the being that's the primal source of silk would probably have to be a pale being

[honest anvil]

GMS is a pale being hornet says as much
"a being pale" is something she says in reference to GMS

[ember river]

It's also a being of Essence, as opposed to Soul

[maiden meteor]

Mask shards seem to be pretty ancient tho

[craggy bison]

does doing the mask maker delivery reveal some lore or not

[slow musk]

she also has one interesting trait in common with gms and the pale king, this being her drive to conquer and rule. she was jealous and spiteful seeking revenge against the pale king and the denizens of hallownest after she was usurped

[ember river]

Soul is the energy that seems to confer the pale glow

[tropic arrow]

Shamans call her a pale being too

[robust wagon]

Well we don't know if they're all made by mask maker

[maiden meteor]

most of time we find them they’re surrounded by architecture unlike any other

[craggy bison]

i mean true ig they are "ancient"

[slow musk]

quite simply her right to rule was taken away but she still acted like a being made to rule by trying to take her revenge

[edgy barn]

That comes from the first game. Pale Ore emits an icy chill per its description

[tropic arrow]

GMS is called a Higher Being only once in the entire game, in the Hunter's Journal.

Every other referral is like "pale kin" or "pale monarch" etc

[autumn grail]

i mean i would also be mad if some random guy came, took over my kingdom and made me be forgotten

[humble iron]

Her desire isn't to rule as much as it is to simply take revenge

[maiden meteor]

Moths are to blame tbf

[ebon silo]

That was the moths fault the pale king had no Intention

[heavy falcon]

Moth God gets fucked over by giant white worm

[heavy falcon]

Can you refresh me on this? I've forgotten most of HK lore

[honest anvil]

the most interesting thing is that pale being seems to be a species designation with as much as wyrm or. uh. Silk Monster Thing. it's the nature of pale beings to conquer and gms/PK/hornet all share that, for some reason

[humble iron]

Nah the god is to blame for being such a vindicative prick

[maiden meteor]

Morale of HK: Higher Beings’ spawn fucking suck

[autumn grail]

i mean tbf this is what we are told in game. there is no confirmation that the pale king wanted to coexist with the radiance

[tropic arrow]

Mosskin seem ok

[craggy bison]

also WHO THE FUCK IS THE KING OF DEEPNEST

[humble iron]

Unn the goat as always

[potent patio]

I CANT BELIEVE ||DASHMASTER|| IS REAL

[tropic arrow]

And Grimm, the closest thing to Nightmare Heart's spawn, is chill

[maiden meteor]

he didn’t really have issue with other tribes and Unn tho

[heavy falcon]

I don't think theres a king, only queen herrah

[autumn grail]

im wondering if we'll see the Nightmare Heart again

[craggy bison]

only sprintmaster no?

[humble iron]

Manipulative is not equal to chill

[heavy falcon]

Maybe dashmaster is his brother

[edgy barn]

There was a king, he dead

[craggy bison]

one of the fungal wastes lore tables talks about some "sire" i forgot the exact wording let me check

[tropic arrow]

The game is such that, if they really wanted to, they could re-use the Grimm Troupe

[ebon silo]

True but wasn't there statements of the pale king wanting to make a kingdom for all worshippers of all gods? And that idea was obviously doomed to fail

[heavy falcon]

Ooooo interesting, a Weaver or some either species?

[neat crane]

We don't really know, just a rather unlucky king that died long before HK

[tropic arrow]

We have no idea

[maiden meteor]

Both Troupe endings seem to imply Troupe still goes on sooo

[humble iron]

I am sure that pharloom's got a lot of nightmare essence to harvest

[craggy bison]

we have no idea he is literally only mentioned once in the whole game

[slow musk]

nightmare's heart is lowk the best higher being
just does its own thing

[robust wagon]

No there was, he's only mentioned a single time in hk tho

[neat crane]

That's also why Herrah makes the funny deal with the Pale King

[potent patio]

Yeah well he looks like dashmaster more and also the charms have synergy (I think) so they probably are connected also the quest icon is literally dashmaster

[maiden meteor]

Whiteward

[heavy falcon]

Maybe brothers?

[autumn grail]

it feeds off of ruined kingdoms, we dont know if its malignant but that sits a little bit wrong with me

[ebon silo]

Basically as pale king become more y'know a king eventually the moth tribe decided to worship him because he was physical we could be seen be touched and be talked to unlike the radiance who was just a light to the moths so upon changing who to worship that made the radiance pissed

It's even said to the last moth that it was their fault

[maiden meteor]

it also mind controls bugs to serve

[potent patio]

My theory is dashmaster is the rank above sprintmaster

[heavy falcon]

Oh damn, so that's why she's all pissed about that.

[humble iron]

Maybe the name got mixed up and the charms were incorrectly named

[slow musk]

it's basically like an irl scavenger though that feeds off of corpses
it's just doing its best to sustain itself even if in a disgusting way

[autumn grail]

oh right i forgot about that part

[edgy barn]

We only know he was of high cast while Herrah was a common beast. However Silksong retconned Herrah into a weaver so only TC knows how much of that applies

[craggy bison]

"This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast. No peace with them we make."

[modern hollow]

Maybe she just looks like that /s

[humble iron]

I mean they're really harming no one, the nightmare essence isn't used by others

[maiden meteor]

maybe weavers were just considered common beasts

[ebon silo]

Have the moth tribe worshipped the radiance there would've have never been an infection to begin with and most likely the pale king would've atleast interacted with the radiance

[heavy falcon]

Fire writing

[tropic arrow]

Tbf one could argue that Weavers weren't anything special in Hallownest, so "common beast"

It's a retcon nonetheless, but that's how I view it

[maiden meteor]

also they say sire “once of honored caste”

[autumn grail]

is it confirmed that Herrah is a weaver anywhere?

[maiden meteor]

maybe he was from Hallownest’s upper society

[heavy falcon]

Maybe they stayed there long enough to be common?

[tropic arrow]

In Silksong yes

[autumn grail]

oh wait nvm silksong is half weaver half wyrm im dum,b

[humble iron]

Silksong dialogue

[maiden meteor]

and for some reason decided to become Deepnest king

[autumn grail]

maybe weavers just werent honoured in Hallownest

[craggy bison]

Jane Silksong

[hard belfry]

is it true that silksong takes place hundreds of years after hollow knight

[heavy falcon]

John Knight

[humble iron]

You bet herrah ate his ass like a irl spider

[neat crane]

We don't know. There are literally 0 dates in both games

[tropic arrow]

There are no specific timeframes

Just "a long time"

[craggy bison]

we don't know how long but it definetly takes place after

[hard belfry]

yeah someone was tryna gaslight me into thinking it was confirmed

[humble iron]

Almost any amount of time could have happened in-between tbh

[heavy falcon]

Hard to say, there's nothing to indicate how much time has passed. Hornet seems the same, but we don't know her lifespan

[maiden meteor]

I’d say few years passed at least

[ebon silo]

It's best to say not hundreds of years rather weeks or maybe days after the knights demise

[edgy barn]

What about the bugs the troupe has enslaved like Brunn?

[maiden meteor]

long enough for lifeblood to start mutate things

[tropic arrow]

Too short, in my view

[humble iron]

Defo not weeks imo

At least a couple years

[ebon silo]

Depends on how far pharloom is

[heavy falcon]

ERM you mean plasmium 🤓

[autumn grail]

yes jane silksong, the protagonist of silksong

[hard belfry]

i feel like hundreds of years gives more weight to the true ending

[humble iron]

Ok yeah these might have been brainwashed

[heavy falcon]

And John Knight, protagonist of Hollow Knight

[maiden meteor]

sorry but Alchemist is a fraud who knows jack shit

[autumn grail]

to be fair replace the John with The and thats his name

[tropic arrow]

It really just depends on your views of Bug lifespan, Bug size etc

[ebon silo]

Jack knight as the knight

[slow musk]

we don't really know what the deal with him is
my headcanon is that the troupe takes in bugs who had no reason left to live and gives them a purpose

[tropic arrow]

I myself also prefer decades or even centuries, but by all means, there is no confirmation

[ebon silo]

Imagine it was 30 minutes

[craggy bison]

nah make it 5 seconds

[heavy falcon]

Are you telling me the knight could theoretically walk to pharloom and fuck up GMS?

[craggy bison]

hornet readies herself to fight the uninfected hollow knight and then gets kidnapped

[maiden meteor]

Hornet walks out of Black Egg Temple and gets jumped immediately

[ebon silo]

Like imagine pharloom is legit walking distance and it was made by that because of lifebloods appearence

[hard belfry]

well hornet id confirmed to be old as hell

[hidden crater]

Cant even use the substance that hes researching properly

[hard belfry]

even for bugs

[ebon silo]

Very old because she's half wyrm and half weaver

[maiden meteor]

She outlived all her mates too

[ebon silo]

Probably because her mates was hive warriors

[heavy falcon]

The knight should cdash directly to the cradle and challenge GMS

[ebon silo]

yeah the knights dead

[maiden meteor]

question is where the hell she got mates in dead kingdom

[tropic arrow]

Probably before Hallownest died

[ember river]

It seems to tie into the whole "power of the places" thing going on with the hearts

[tropic arrow]

The Pure Vessel didn't fail instantly, after all

[heavy falcon]

Way before hallownest died down

[ebon silo]

In the red memory the hive queen was still training hornet so it's best to say during hornets stay hornet got a little freaky with the citizens

[ember river]

It even IS another heart

[slow musk]

in the hive, maybe. she likes fluffy things and bees are fluffy, plus they have short lifespans
and there are lots of places that were hidden away and that the infection didn't reach so quickly

[hidden crater]

Also the knight appearing to save hornet before she gets turned into a skewer

[maiden meteor]

yall sleep on Hornet x Zote

[ebon silo]

He genuinely tried his best

[tropic arrow]

Perish

[hidden crater]

Mf just wanted to make his father proud

[heavy falcon]

Awww she misses her home

[edgy barn]

I mean shouldn't dung defender be older than Hornet? He still alive during the events of HK. Why not mate with him.

[ebon silo]

As shown in the white palace cutscene

[heavy falcon]

Which made him vulnerable

[maiden meteor]

he smells of poo

[ebon silo]

Dung defender literally has a lover already

[ember river]

So like most alchemists across history

[craggy bison]

why did the weavers even climb mount fay

[hidden crater]

Nah hornet x hornet on top

[autumn grail]

shits and giggles

[edgy barn]

She dead

[ember river]

Rite of passage or some shit

[slow musk]

im pretty sure ogrim might've had some shit going on with isma
plus we don't know if hornet got to isma's grove

[maiden meteor]

Vespa had to make “no petting” rule specifically for Hornet

[craggy bison]

what is ts

[tropic arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-peter-griffin-family-guy-psych-ward-gif-26893232

[teal finch]

the like weaver tech thing on top is stated to be some sort of communication device somewhere iirc

[hidden crater]

lossnet

[teal finch]

they also did hold birdie with high regard

[ebon silo]

Dung defender is still in love with her and guards her

[maiden meteor]

bird friend :)

[ebon silo]

Im guessing the weaver just deadass weave their way to the walls of the slab and just jump from there

[maiden meteor]

Fay things is kinda shady

we can catch Mr Mushroom speak to it

[edgy barn]

alright.

[ebon silo]

Or bird friend yeah

Y'know I really like the bird

[teal finch]

birdie is awesome

[ember river]

It's actually a really big moth or something, you can see a bug body

[edgy barn]

I honestly thought that thing was a boss when it appeared. I was already lamenting the runback

[heavy falcon]

Looks like a tuning fork, maybe they could set it to certain frequencies, like a radio?

[teal finch]

perhaps

[ebon silo]

Imagine if team cherry made it a boss and you have to runback from bottom to top

[ember river]

It does kill people it considers unworthy iirc

[pliant meadow]

Well I really doubt it's a moth

[heavy falcon]

Ikr I shat my pants when I heard the rumbling, I was ready to throw hands

[ember river]

It is a bug is what I mean

[pliant meadow]

Okay yeah

[toxic quest]

honestly if you go from the closest bench it isn't too bad, although it would still be one of the worst runbacks in the game

[maiden meteor]

if not birb, why birb shaped

[ebon silo]

I started throwing tacks and the air traps when there was is a small area with nothing else

[heavy falcon]

What types of bugs repeat in both games? Like weavers, maggots, snails, etc.

[ember river]

For the same reasons craws aren'r crows

[hidden crater]

Does mr mushroom count

[pliant meadow]

Weavers, snail shamans, and shadow creepers (oh also wingmoulds)

[heavy falcon]

The roaches in sinners road are NOT dogs I repeat NOT dogs

[maiden meteor]

You should pet roaches

[heavy falcon]

He's a God that doesnt count /s

[maiden meteor]

they’re friendly :)

[autumn grail]

wingmoulds are in on a technicality though

[toxic quest]

wingmoulds are questionable because

• they're not really bugs they're constructs
• they only show up in the memory; they're not in pharloom

[pliant meadow]

That's why I put brackets

[ember river]

Beetles (duh)
Mantises
Weavers
Roaches (technically god tamer was intended to be a roach)
Shadow Creepers

[teal finch]

lkterally them

[hidden crater]

Just serve them to || lugoli || bro

[heavy falcon]

It's weird we have the giant headed maggots and the disgusting maggots

[ebon silo]

Didn't team cherry said there was going to be an area filled with lions and shit

[hidden crater]

What the fuck did they feed this dog

[edgy barn]

Muckroack ≠ Roach

[ember river]

Ones are maggots and the others are muckmaggots

[pliant meadow]

Scarlett rot

[ember river]

Maybe they are on the same genus

[heavy falcon]

I see, what are shadow creepers? The void dudes in the abyss?

[pliant meadow]

Yep

[heavy falcon]

Hmmmm makes sense, different species

[ember river]

Chill bugs just crawling around the abyss

[teal finch]

ya the little dudes

[ebon silo]

y'know what's a real baddie in this game is the ant queen no wonder the hunters march is so dangerous shes just that bad-dy

[ember river]

Also most bugs are beetles

[heavy falcon]

I love those lil dudes, I was so happy to see then when I first found them lol

[ember river]

Like in real life, where most bugs you don't know are also beetles

[pliant meadow]

Most species irl are beetles too

[maiden meteor]

btw why Pharloom’s Abyss has these fucked up creatures

[ebon silo]

I got scared when I saw them because like who knows what's inside the abyss

[toxic quest]

wait the shadow creepers in pharloom are the same as the ones in the hallownest (but infected) right

[ember river]

I was writing that yes

[autumn grail]

me too, and then i that happiness disappeared the moment i saw the abyss dinosaur

[heavy falcon]

Rightfully scared, we got a giant dinosaur that spits void EVERYWHERE

[ember river]

I don't know but the tube ones are some of the most annoying enemies in the game

[ember river]

Yes

[maiden meteor]

another W for Pale King for keeping Abyss safe

[ember river]

It's pretty cool that the design changed slightly

[ebon silo]

The most annoying enemies ever are the unkillable flames

[ember river]

That could've been the ancient civilization, they had much more of a presence than in pharloom

[toxic quest]

i guess those void tubes couldn't handle the precipitation of shells

[ebon silo]

No I'm very sure he closed the door because he didn't wanted anyone to find out he just committed a massacre

[ember river]

Wisps? I just treat them as a projectile

[ebon silo]

So annoying

[heavy falcon]

Perhaps theyre extinct in hallownest since the amount of vessels just shredding anything there?

The harmless guys are the only ones left

[hidden crater]

Pale king gonna lose his shit when he sees this

[ebon silo]

Which are obviously out of range

[spring escarp]

Have you all realized that the GOAT pale ling achieved far more than he was trying to do.

[toxic quest]

lowk skarrsinger karmelita kinda reminded me of WL for some reason

[ember river]

They were the only ones who managed to move to the ancient basin

[maiden meteor]

“Now that’s my kinda woman”

[ebon silo]

Such a baddie though don't get me wrong

[ember river]

Also the mawleks could have started off as voidbugs

[spring escarp]

The void has been given focus and taught mercy.

[ember river]

Then got infected

[hidden crater]

Her achievement calls her a diva after all

[spring escarp]

The void is now a new merciful god.

The void could have been a terrible threat otherwise.

[ebon silo]

I laughed when I saw that pretty good

[edgy barn]

Are shadow charers fully grown creepers or just a related species?

[spring escarp]

But the king suceeded in ways he couldn't have predivted

[ember river]

He also lost everything he wanted to preserve

[ebon silo]

Thank the knight for being void itself and being aware too

[spring escarp]

Yes but he got himself better

[ember river]

Which makes his foresight kinda shit

[buoyant salmon]

If the higher being give small bugs mind, then who or what give the Higher being those power (and mind too)?

[hidden crater]

Imagine || sister of the void || was called "I beat up someones child in the abyss and then saved them"

[ember river]

Themselves

[spring escarp]

I am trying to give him an happy ending.

[ebon silo]

Team cherry

[ember river]

That's why they go around calling themselves gods

[toxic quest]

guys the pale king is not a "GOAT," we're only really praising him because he ran a decently functioning monarchy while the weavers created some dystopian shit

[spring escarp]

Who knows what the void could have become.

[ebon silo]

What kind of question is that

[heavy falcon]

Aside from the soul statues, what were the clues that there was an ancient civilization? Like how in silksong we can find an arcane egg, which has... Understandable language? Which is strange

[spring escarp]

Imagine what if the void had become malicious

[ember river]

He died alone and erased, probably by the void, there is no happy ending

[hidden crater]

The citadel thrives off of capitalism

[ebon silo]

They've already been malicous from the start it's the void it's in the name

[ember river]

How?

[spring escarp]

Yet he won at last

[toxic quest]

i think hollow knight implied that arcane eggs stored language

[spring escarp]

The void wasn't malicious

[ebon silo]

Oh

[ember river]

He didn't win, both parties were annihilated

[spring escarp]

It wa smindless and eldritch

[buoyant salmon]

Shade lord maybe the only god that can't die

[heavy falcon]

Ah right, that giant egg we can get the shade charm thing

[ebon silo]

Still malicous

[ember river]

Void is void, it just eats

[spring escarp]

Yeah but now the void is kind of a good guy, net good for the world

[ember river]

It wasn't malicious

[toxic quest]

maybe if you chucked enough everblooms at it

[hidden crater]

If only we could give the void some focus

[heavy falcon]

Hungy

[ember river]

No lol

[spring escarp]

You can't be malicious without a mind

[spring escarp]

the void given focus comes to save hornet bruh

[hidden crater]

Its greed sickens me

[ember river]

The knight helped hornet because they knew her

[spring escarp]

Literally the void god

[buoyant salmon]

imagine throwing 1000 tons of sunflower into the SEA

[spring escarp]

So?

[ebon silo]

And because it's his sibling

[ember river]

Maybe sherma just fell and the knight would have just watched

[spring escarp]

At the evry least the void can care for something

Better than before

[hidden crater]

Imagine every vessel was never hollow to begin with

[ebon silo]

"why does that bug keep clanking his bell his getting torn apart"

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber-jim-carrey-i-don't-hear-you-gif-9558280472791987858

[toxic quest]

nah sherma's the goat he would survive that shit

[hidden crater]

https://tenor.com/view/sherma-silksong-sherma-silksong-gif-2943287262419971171

[ebon silo]

They literally never were

[slow musk]

imo the reason why this happened is that when the knight invoked the shade lord to godhome, its heroic willpower 'stuck' to the shade lord after it got subsumed

[ember river]

I guess it's better? It's still nowhere near a "net benefit"

[buoyant salmon]

so wait is Pure Vessel/Hollow Knight now could be considered to be a demi-god of the Void?

[spring escarp]

exactly

Imo the knighr is the void given form

[ember river]

Sherma drives the knight into myla remembrance depression

[spring escarp]

void give form flashes on screen when we look at the knight

[ebon silo]

Pretty cool to see the pale kings quote to the vessels when you find the arcane egg "no will etc etc"

[spring escarp]

I think they are the same

[hidden crater]

Shermas better then quirrel because sherma can actually swim
-# please dont come after me with pitchforks

[spring escarp]

Or maybe all the void siblings are parts of void given form

[craggy bison]

he gonna have to cheat on white lady once more

[buoyant salmon]

In Godhome ending, HK still alive

[toxic quest]

i think this is just team cherry's way of saying that you can interpret either the dnm or etv endings as canon and it's up to you

[toxic quest]

.... wow, just ... wow

[spring escarp]

Idk about that

[slow musk]

after dnm? i imagine that like all of the siblings in hallownest it becomes part of the void

[spring escarp]

I think that whatever way you see it the void has been improved

[spring escarp]

probably this

[ember river]

What heroic willpower? Killing the radiance was their purpose from the very start

[spring escarp]

And the void being improved is a big deal

[ebon silo]

Or sealing it

[craggy bison]

wasn't that plan b

[spring escarp]

now the radiance has been killed and they still do good

[hidden crater]

One of the best ragebaits team cherry ever made

[spring escarp]

Meaning they care, not just void robots

[ember river]

I always assumed quirrel just died due to the accelerated aging

[buoyant salmon]

why ragebait

[cyan herald]

Yes

[spring escarp]

Accelerated aging made them unable to swim

I think

[ebon silo]

Smart

[hidden crater]

ITS HIM

[dry sparrow]

where were the bugs that captured hornet even going? the bridge they took doesn't lead to the citadel, unless they take sinner's path. Are they stupid?

[slow musk]

the knight has heroic willpower because unlike most vessels it has a mind and will. this is why it helps some of the hallownest denizens, this is how it can channel void into the spells it learned from the snail shamans, and how it can unite the void in dnm/etv

[ember river]

There was no plan b, the pale king just wanted the infection gone so the vessels were there to get rid of the infection, one way or another

[cyan herald]

I always count flies away

[craggy bison]

wait true that bridge was going to shellwood

[ember river]

Most vessels aren't hollow, that's why they fail

[slow musk]

the knight has heroic willpower because it could even envision having a plan

[buoyant salmon]

wait theory

Maybe HK seek the Ghost, so Ghost actively find Hornet until she using red memory talking to White Lady

[spring escarp]

Top long spent together, we became one

[hidden crater]

See you in zoteboat bro

[ember river]

The Hollow Knight definetely has a mind

[spring escarp]

I think the void has learned to have a "soul"

It learned witht he bugs of hallowmest and their struggles

[honest anvil]

you can probably take some sort of elevator on the z-axis up to the city if you're part of the citadel

[ember river]

Stop humanizing entropy

[spring escarp]

Ans that is the story of the first game

[spring escarp]

The game is about this imo

entropy being buganized.

[ebon silo]

Worker: so let me get this straight you want us to make a parkour in this abyss for your children to parkour and reach this cliffhanger so they are proven to be hollow?

Pale king: yeah what's wrong with rhat

[ember river]

The game isn't about humanizing the void

[spring escarp]

you play as heroic void

And you save people on the next game after your goal has already been accomplished

[ember river]

You aren't heroic, you are doing your job

[craggy bison]

very smart move from pale king

[spring escarp]

The job is finished on the first game

[buoyant salmon]

it kinda is... it shown there is no true "hollow" being

[ember river]

And the knight saves a person they know about

[spring escarp]

On the second game they choose to do what theybwajt

[slow musk]

yeah but here's the thing
the knight isn't sapient because it has void, quite the opposite in fact. it's sapient because its willpower resisted being hollowed out completely

[spring escarp]

yes

[ember river]

So?

[toxic quest]

imo no vessels were hollow, not even thk or ghost (wl says that thk was "tarnished by an idea instilled" but she doesn't seem like a credible source on vessels)

[craggy bison]

but here's the thing

[spring escarp]

They wanted to do it

[ember river]

That's baseless

[craggy bison]

https://tenor.com/view/the-thing-gif-7221802782330564472

[ember river]

The idea is that all vessels are like that

[spring escarp]

I think that the first emding of hollow knight is bad

Because i believe the knight is not pure

[ember river]

Pretty much what I am saying

[slow musk]

the entire point of hollow knight is that we aren't given a lot of lore to work with

[novel eagle]

Obviously
the infection is contained but for how long
It'll just erpeat itself

[spring escarp]

I think radiance would worms its way out

[honest anvil]

i don't think the shade lord being a conscious entity means that the void in its entirety is conscious
like the shade lord can be a master of the void without being the void entirely

[spring escarp]

On the knight too

[ember river]

So you make some shit up that's cobtradicted by most lore?

[toxic quest]

also i think the parkour in the abyss was natural and that the pale king just checked if vessels that made it to the top were "pure" and if they weren't just chucked them back down

[ebon silo]

If you dream nail the HK he is literally thinking don't speak don't even think don't even do anything so he was trying his best and hide his flaw

[slow musk]

ok explain what in the lore contradicts this

[buoyant salmon]

well except the ending that everyone but Hornet die

[toxic quest]

this is cut content, but i would really want to accept it as canon

[spring escarp]

void given focus my beloved kiss me

[hidden crater]

Hornet would lose her mind if she saw the radiance

[spring escarp]

I mean, by definition yes?

[buoyant salmon]

she be like: nah I'd win

[spring escarp]

She knew that

[ebon silo]

She's not void so yeah

[spring escarp]

Would grandmother silk fall for the radiance?

[buoyant salmon]

like she is on killer mode when she going to find Grand Mother Silk

[ebon silo]

As in fall in love or

[ember river]

The Hollow Knight isn't hollow and neither is the Knight, the shades are also meant to have a mind, or will, and that's why grabbing a random vessel and sticking it as a new hollow knight wouldn't work either

[honest anvil]

i ship it

[buoyant salmon]

Radiance is far stronger

[spring escarp]

hot sesbian lex

[ember river]

The entire idea of a Vessel was flawed and a failure

[ebon silo]

So he's a top

[novel eagle]

??

[hidden crater]

You are invited to grandmother silk and radiances marriage

[toxic quest]

i mean she doesn't even exist in the physical world, but yes

[spring escarp]

idk she is just a dream

GMS has a body

[slow musk]

i never said that'd work. i said the knight wasn't hollow, it had a will and that's how it united the void. none of them are hollow and it was doomed from the start because even if they didn't resist as much as the knight did they still had a sliver of consciousness left

[spring escarp]

Yes

[hidden crater]

When I first saw GMS I was like "why is her body built like a bong"

[ebon silo]

If the pale king had slightly above wyrm foresight he could've just trained an army of vessels to fight the radiance

[spring escarp]

hips don't lie

[craggy bison]

grandma silk resisted the void
gms: 1
radiance: 0

[edgy barn]

Give GMS the dream nail so she can go in.

[buoyant salmon]

well we dont know if she choose to hide in dream or not, she may have real body until it die and she moved into dream, kinda like Nightmare Heart per

[slow musk]

tl;dr we are contradicting each other for no reason despite thinking the same thing

[buoyant salmon]

she make a cocoon so that does not count

[ember river]

Indeed, they wanted to save her and so they did. But the void itself is still doing its own thing and consuming what it touches

[spring escarp]

Idk the nightmare heart might also always have been a dream

[buoyant salmon]

Radiance when not weaken can resist the void

[ebon silo]

The radiance and the void was said they had a heated rivalry and I think if you dream nail the radiance she's deadass saying I fucking hate the void

[craggy bison]

how does it not count she made that cocoon with her own power

[spring escarp]

Well it is still something

the void can care for 1 person

[honest anvil]

maybe radiance could've resisted the void if she had a daughter she was protecting

[spring escarp]

Huge progress

[ebon silo]

I think that's because the shade lord intervened

[spring escarp]

They also saved lace so 2

[buoyant salmon]

the explain how she can escape void tendrils after phase 1

[spring escarp]

yes

[ember river]

Accessing the radiance directly was probably beyond the PK's abilities, it's likely he didn't have a dream nail, or that there wasn't a heart of the infection until the Hollow Knight was in place

[craggy bison]

gms?

[ember river]

It's not the void, it's an entity with control over the void

[spring escarp]

Well there was only one moth tribe

[stable venture]

Mask maker's dialog is lowkey kinda sad

[ember river]

It's not omniscient

[spring escarp]

Maybe he didn't know the dream nail was a thing

[spring escarp]

At the very least one fraction fo the void can care for at least one person

[honest anvil]

i don't think the shade lord is synonymous with the Void. the void is some kind of force and sea of power and... something. whatever the void is. the shade lord is part of it, but is not its whole, but is its master

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-steps-small-steps-little-by-little-progress-doboy-gif-14436321

[buoyant salmon]

technically Shade Lord can be anywhere that have void, hence why it appear in Act 3 ending

[spring escarp]

tbf the shade lord fights with void tendrils

[craggy bison]

only the void controlled by the knight

[ember river]

Void Given Focus is still the knight's shade, but taken to its maximum possible power

[spring escarp]

Mayve the shade lord could consume all the void theoretically

[toxic quest]

it has the capacity to be anywhere with void, but it clearly isn't omniscient, all of the act 3 destruction doesn't seem like something the shade lord would consciously do

[buoyant salmon]

it like: get off my sister, what did I tell you: no hurty my sibling

[ember river]

The knight with the void heart is technically the lord of shade

[spring escarp]

God seeker dlc on pharloom when woowee

[craggy bison]

yeah something like that

[pliant meadow]

...and its hands

[spring escarp]

Me when my two half siblings are fighting

[buoyant salmon]

she died

[craggy bison]

can't wait to fight ascended palestag with no floor

[buoyant salmon]

and the third one (HK)

[spring escarp]

the cult of the land of storms, not the bug

[toxic quest]

can't wait for savage beastfly duo with a destroyable spike floor

[stable venture]

He implies that Silksong is set much long after Hollow Knight and that Hornet is "ancient", which means our beloved npcs are long gone 🙁

[honest anvil]

GMS fights with silk

[spring escarp]

HK is helping void given focus np

[ember river]

Also, the void tendrils were still lashing out at Hornet during act 3, and even at the ending they were about to consume her and Lace until the knight showed up at the very end

[honest anvil]

hornet is ancient in hollow knight

[craggy bison]

and summons that take 10 hits to kill

[toxic quest]

nah how about unkillable summons

[ebon silo]

And we still don't know what those inscriptions say

[spring escarp]

The fact the void would help means hornet wasted time going after the everbloom

She couls just jump straight the game should let us do that

[ember river]

It almost tore her apart

[slow musk]

no, the knight with the void heart could unite and control the void, presumably being able to reach out to the shade lord and wield a small bit of its power. the shade lord was always a different entity which absorbs the knight in etv and gains a bit of its will

[craggy bison]

oh also abyssed

[edgy barn]

I wonder how a boss rush would work considering the way the tool system is implemented.

[buoyant salmon]

maybe the everbloom is signal the Knight

[honest anvil]

there are probably multiple godseekers. we can have, like, a godseeker 2. godfinder

[ember river]

Because as I've been saying, the knight is not the void, nor is it omniscient in the void

[hidden crater]

Ascended nyleth starts the fight with no floor

[craggy bison]

she would've died

[slow musk]

free tool refreshes every few 4-6 bosses

[spring escarp]

almost

[ebon silo]

HELLLLLLLLL NAHHHHHH

[buoyant salmon]

but it a god, it SHOULD be like that

[ebon silo]

do you want a half masked hornet or something

[slow musk]

if you really wanna use tool strats, craft bind from architect crest

[craggy bison]

and phase 2 has negative floor (no clue how that would work)

[ember river]

You are literally referred to as the lord of shades when you acquire the void heart

[spring escarp]

Idk like does the void given focus need time to move inside the void?

[slow musk]

where tho

[toxic quest]

u right

[ember river]

You, yourself, by controlling the void through your will become the fabled lord of shades

[ebon silo]

No the parkour is a lava parkour you have to climb up to beat it and it's on loop

[spring escarp]

Maybe he saw the cocoon and was taking the void subway

[toxic quest]

and also make the tarmites have primal aspid projectile behavior

[ember river]

The big bug with the void fountain can be dream nailed

[hidden crater]

Nah make it so nyleth deals 4 damage in phase 2

[viscid ridge]

The bowl bug

[ember river]

Its dream nail dialogue changes

[teal finch]

ive been saying knight showing up in true ending is a deus ex machina (its cool but its still a deus ex)

[ember river]

From void without unity to lord of shades

[craggy bison]

he was prolly like "oh she has the everbloom she gonna be fine" and when it ran out was like "holup i gotta intervene"

[toxic quest]

it's cool, there's a reason that was a popular plot device back in the day

[buoyant salmon]

that even before knight became Shade Lord

[spring escarp]

@ember river I wonder if the void civilization (weavers) have already done something tot he state of the void as a whole

[honest anvil]

i mean yeah it's just an earned deus ex machina

[stable venture]

But not really though. She was around when Hallownest was still fighting the infection and assuming that the Pale King's Knights was also around that time, Hornet isn't really that old since Ogrim is still alive.

[spring escarp]

Maybe the void wasn't even alive before them

[ebon silo]

Weavers are not the void civilization

[ember river]

The void civilization wasn't the weavers

[ebon silo]

What is bro talking man 😭

[spring escarp]

I meant to type (weavers?)

[edgy barn]

Only with the true dream nail too,

[ember river]

The weavers tried to use the void to their advantage

[spring escarp]

Forgot the question amrk

[toxic quest]

she's called old by the shamans and some other characters, and hallownest was probably in stasis for a long time

[buoyant salmon]

the only remain of the void civilization is the Snail Shaman

[honest anvil]

ogrim is just also really old i think we just have a lot of old people

[spring escarp]

But the main ppint is

[hidden crater]

"Ok she has everbloom shes fine"
"WAIT A MINUTE THE BLOOM IS NEARLY DESTROYED OH GOD I GOTTA SAVE MY SISTER"

[spring escarp]

Maybe the void wasn't even alive and full of traits before the abyss civilization (snail shamans?)

[ember river]

People really will write up a headcanon and ram it through the lore as a heavy cargo train

[buoyant salmon]

I hope dlc the HK appear

[honest anvil]

but also hornet's status as 'Old One' is not based purely on her age. it's clearly a title given to higher beings

[viscid ridge]

Weavers has as much connection to the void as the pale king did. They probably used it in some way, but i cant think of anything they built in game that shows that? They just have a nest built above a void sea?

[craggy bison]

nah he'd be more nonchalant about it he needs to aura farm

[buoyant salmon]

More HK content pls

[slow musk]

ok fine but imo the shade lord existed before the knight
the knight channels it in dnm for a brief period of time and is subsumed into it in etv

[ember river]

The void never was, or is alive

[ember river]

Source?

[spring escarp]

Brother the void is thrasing dull of tendrils

[hidden crater]

"Next time you dive into the abyss give me a call"

[toxic quest]

unrealistic, the knight would probably be like: "that STUPID flower, i spent 10 YEARS doing that shit 😡"

[spring escarp]

Maube it was just still void before the abyss civilization

[buoyant salmon]

the thing is, before the knight, void is chaotic and unfocus

[honest anvil]

the void isn't conscious. it might be alive but if it's alive it's not life like we know it

[slow musk]

i literally said 'imo'
r e a d

[wary plover]

And one very brave tiny little knight

[hidden crater]

"Why doesnt your flower get destroyed in 1 hit"

[spring escarp]

Maybe the abyss civilization gave some form to the void

[ebon silo]

It's the void it's nothing it's something but at the same time it's nothing

[spring escarp]

And then the events of the first game gave it some more form

[toxic quest]

wait yeah bit of a plot hole, maybe zemer's flowers have lost potency or smth compared to WL's

[buoyant salmon]

so the "form" that the void civilization saw prob just someone drink too much void juice

[ebon silo]

What abyss civilization are you referring to again

[ember river]

That's a representation of it trying to get you, that much is written in the silksong journal entry for the tendrils

[ember river]

It's ethereal, born from a memory I guess

[spring escarp]

yes but what if the void at first was still

[honest anvil]

the flower is constrained within hornet's silk, she literally made the damn thing with her soul magic
it'll die if she dies but whenever we die we reset

[buoyant salmon]

and have White Lady kisses /half joke

[spring escarp]

And the abyss civilization died after making it active

[viscid ridge]

Void has a mind, but it has no focus. Its only after tge dream no more ending, where the knight and its siblings gave the void focus

[ember river]

So it's an unsubstantiated claim that has nothing supporting it

[spring escarp]

the one from the arcane eggs

And the bowl bug

[toxic quest]

also the soul totems

[spring escarp]

Metroid reference

[buoyant salmon]

the one under Hallownest and the one that Snail Shaman mentioned in their mind

[slow musk]

tbh i have no clue why you're being so incredibly argumentative here
oh wait this is discord there's nothing but entitled shitbags here
yeah whatever you win i have better things to do than argue here i still have a silksong save to finish

[ember river]

The void has a mind when the knight unifies it under its own

[ebon silo]

Shii it could be the pale king himself for real

[spring escarp]

Maybe they died because they made a mindless still puddle of balck into hell

[slow musk]

also we had the same ideas at one point and you still argued with me??? like smh im pretty sure im not the problem here

[honest anvil]

there is a void civilisation of some kind but we know very little about it. it's ancient as hell, probably eons before hallownest

[light saddle]

Y’all need to chill, god damn

[ebon silo]

The description of that egg does have the same thing of what the king said

[spring escarp]

And it ate then, otherwise how did they build it so close to the void right?

[viscid ridge]

Its strange we didn't see any void idols in pharloom. I didn't expect us to use them, only to have them as a background object or something

[spring escarp]

And stayed in there for so long

Another thing

[ember river]

Because I'm trying to actually solve the lore instead of making shit up perhaps
Go on reddit if you want to circlejerk baseless theories because they sound cool, that's how it is in ultrakill

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it

[spring escarp]

Hornet wonders if the abyss bugs are ecen cousins of bugs

[toxic quest]

idt the ancient civilization extended to pharloom even if there's an abyss there

[spring escarp]

maybe the abyss bugs are some sort of vois cosntruct

[ebon silo]

Someone said ultrakill

[spring escarp]

renmants of the old civilization

[spring escarp]

On the bestiary

[buoyant salmon]

the closet to the ppl of the void civilization is Snail Shamans

[slow musk]

you could do that without denying everything though? like with the part about how vessels werent hollow i agreed with you on that one but you still argued with me until i outright told you 'bro we have the same idea here'

[honest anvil]

there was an arcane egg down there but we don't know where that came from

[viscid ridge]

But we do have arcane eggs in pharloom, so i assume they were also in pharloom?

[ember river]

I mean, the knight does have a mind, technically if it controls the void it is giving it a mind

[ebon silo]

Which literally look like embodiments of void

[toxic quest]

oh i forgot about that

[spring escarp]

I agree it is highly likely but let's not act as if it is proven

[honest anvil]

if you control a sword you're not giving it a mind you're picking it up and swinging it

[craggy bison]

i wanna know why gms was controlling people before she got locked up she seems like she could become a good person unlike radiance

[ebon silo]

Tell that to mjolnir or the axe one idk I forgot

[craggy bison]

thunderbreaker i think i also forgot

[honest anvil]

she was doing exactly the same thing radiance was doing with the moth tribe

[ember river]

What I was telling you was that the Knight isn't not hollow because he "had a will strong enough to resist the void", that doesn't make any sense.
There wasn't a hollow vessel to begin with, and there probably wasn't a way to create them

[toxic quest]

i mean the haunting doesn't start until the tail end of her slumber

[ember river]

Yeah that's fair

[light saddle]

Soul is also a pretty good comparison I think. It can be manipulated too, but it’s never referred to as being given a mind

[craggy bison]

yeah but in sister of the void ending she low key becomes chill

[viscid ridge]

Its not giving the void a mind, because it already has one, but it focuses the mind, by letting it either kill the radiance (in the dnm ending) or to focus it into the shade lord in tge godhome endings

[ember river]

She just accepts her fate and dies

[ember river]

Where is it mentioned that the void has a mind?

[craggy bison]

she sacrifices herself to save her kid

[ebon silo]

Because she really wanted to be a mother

[slow musk]

ok no im tired
im lowk amused by how you still have the green 'im new' tag and are already doing shit like this
wow haha you win now go talk about this in #hk-lore because i dont see any fking vessels in pharloom

[honest anvil]

she becomes chill because you are saving her daughter's life exclusively at risk of your own. she respects that. she might be redeemable here, but radiance also probably could be talked to in the right situation

[ember river]

She doesn't give you the rest of the silk, she just dies

[light saddle]

I honestly forget where the fragmented mind idea comes from. There’s discourse about it in the backlogs for #hk-lore

[craggy bison]

i don't think she had any silk left lmao i think she used up the rest on the cocoon

[buoyant salmon]

??????????????????????????

[honest anvil]

it's not like the radiant is a mindless beast she's very clearly sapient and intelligent. she's just also power hungry

[ebon silo]

Too bad we can't get her crest...yet

[spring escarp]

tbf I don't recall any evidence GMS was doing anything intentionally evil befor ebeign put to sleep

[viscid ridge]

My reading of why GMS was controlling pharloom is because of the weavers. The weavers left her, so she controlled the other bugs, so that they would not betray her like the weavers did.

[craggy bison]

definetly seems like a better person than radiance but still bad

[ember river]

I'm new to this server and apparently have read more lore in the 7 year old game than you I guess?

[spring escarp]

????? What si thus

[craggy bison]

wait you're cooking

[ember river]

Technically we CAN

[ebon silo]

She created capitalism and slavery and like every bad thing

[teal finch]

this doesnt imply anything abt the ancient civ imo

[honest anvil]

she created an entire race of bug exclusively for the purpose of worshipping her for eternity

[buoyant salmon]

Bell Hermit needolin dialogue

[ember river]

Was that her?

[slow musk]

why exactly do you feel the need to brag about this

[toxic quest]

that was the weavers

[craggy bison]

wasn't that just the citadel not gms

[ember river]

She was asleep by then

[viscid ridge]

🥰

[ebon silo]

Still part of GM 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[spring escarp]

What if he is talking about pharloom

[honest anvil]

the weavers rebelled for a reason they clearly didn't like being under the rule of the pale monarch

[ebon silo]

Nah the weavers ran away

[ember river]

You seemed like you were trying to gatekeep me or something for not having joined before

[subtle plaza]

she didn't though? Some of the systems in place were the citadel's fault.

[toxic quest]

the weavers made the citadel to keep gms asleep, it's unlikely that gms was "collaborating" on that

[toxic quest]

probably when gms started to wake up/trigger the haunting

[ember river]

I think there's a misunderstanding
The citadel ≠ GMS

[ebon silo]

Could hornet 1v1 Minos prime

[ember river]

They were a different faction with different goals

[ebon silo]

I see got it

[slow musk]

what no thats for losers
idfc how annoying you are i wouldn't do that i just joked about 'oh wow you have the green tag and already doing this. wow'
anyways you won, remind me not to ever step foot in this channel again

[ember river]

What the hell is this dramatic outburst now I just wanted sources for some wild claims

[honest anvil]

are you two good btw i don't know what's going on but you should both probably calm down

[spring escarp]

why yall sure gms didn't do the citadel

[teal finch]

the weavers explicitly created the citadel to keep GMS asleep that was its original intention

[ember river]

Nah, citadel was made by the weavers to trap GMS

[robust wagon]

The weavers made it, mask makers says so

[spring escarp]

how we know that

[ebon silo]

The fuck did they create capitalism for

[craggy bison]

uh probably not

[ember river]

Also I'd guess the citadel was different

[teal finch]

mask maker dialogue

[ember river]

Early on

[ebon silo]

How would we know

[spring escarp]

just cause it is awesome

[craggy bison]

he's fast

[slow musk]

haha what no, i was just having some actual fun talking to people for once and then i messed up and that is completely unacceptable. im gonna go crawl into a hole now bye

[light saddle]

I’m sorry about this experience. There’s a lot of traffic here, so #sk-lore can get pretty volatile sometimes :/

[ebon silo]

Cross stitch 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[subtle plaza]

me when being corrected for wrong stuff on the lore channel: 🤯 🤯 🤯

[robust wagon]

Keeps the rich bugs at the top

[craggy bison]

i'm not gonna sugarcoat it

[toxic quest]

to reinforce their power and rule, i'd guess

[teal finch]

oh yeah it definitely evolved far past its initial state (based on the dialogue from pious isamor)

[cedar skiff]

i just still wonder why the weavers actually left, one of the rune harps says something about fleeing from gms so that they arent doomed to eternal servitude or something along the lines but if they had planned to/succeeded in sealing her whyd they piss off

[craggy bison]

wait but why did they leave her tho

[toxic quest]

gms started to wake up eventually

[ebon silo]

If the weavers made the citadel why did the citadel started capturing the weavers now we'll probably because the monarch said so maybe

[ember river]

Also there aren't many indications of Weaver rule, while Conductors, Architects and Keepers are ever present

[ember river]

That was much later

[buoyant salmon]

it said that he has a kingdom and it long lost

one of the Shaman literally use void portal, and said it from his family

[honest anvil]

because they weren't successful, not really
GMS wasn't really trapped, not in the way they wanted. she was still the ruler, and their kingdom still revolved around her. they were still her servants, even if they had temporarily gained the upper hand

[subtle plaza]

huh? Did the weavers create the citadel?

[toxic quest]

so

1. weavers put gms to sleep and build the citadel
2. gms starts to wake up, haunting begins
3. weavers flee
4. gms orders weaver descendants to be captured

[ebon silo]

They did yeah

[ember river]

The weavers made the citadel but then they left and/or died in hopes of someday a weaver descendant or creation would return, and be strong enough to get rid of GMS

[cedar skiff]

its what im thinking but timeline wise its kinda flimsy seeing as tehre had to be an era where only regular bugs ruled over the citadel seeing as there was that whole era where they were obsessed with silk

[ember river]

Also, the citadel leadership wasn't alligned with GMS until the Haunting

[ember river]

There was

[spring escarp]

It is kidna weird cause bugworld doesn't ha e just bugs... we have plants and snaisl too

[viscid ridge]

Cause they found out they weren't as divine as they said they were. We see in the first sinners cutscene that the weavers were only common bugs before becoming weavers. My interpretation is that they felt controlled and betrayed, so they fled

[teal finch]

there are a couple citadel npcs / lore tablets that do acknowledge them as the "first rulers" of pharloom or something to that end, and that they gave the conductors/archs/keepers the authority over the citadel

[spring escarp]

What even are snails? Amphibious?

[subtle plaza]

they might have left to hallownest tbh

[toxic quest]

maybe weavers were like, oh shit gms is waking up long before gms amassed enough power to start the haunting, and fucked off and passed rule to the conductors

[honest anvil]

the citadel is a complex system made to keep mother silk asleep
the entire system of pilgrimage and worship is all to keep pilgrims coming, because their worship and toil is what is needed to keep the citadel going

[ember river]

12th mentions them as the first daughters

[ember river]

Some did, yes

[cedar skiff]

yeah gms basically just took control over the bugs to try and get her children back

[spring escarp]

I feel like the weavers and the GMS were aligned at first

[teal finch]

right that was it

[cedar skiff]

they were

[spring escarp]

and then fell apart

[viscid ridge]

But to be fair i still dont have a good reading on that, so maybe in time it becomes better understood

[ebon silo]

Because she's that obsessed of wanting to be a mother like calm down girl go find the pale king

[ember river]

It's also implied that the very act of keeping her asleep is pretty destructive all by itself

I think it's a rare line by a shaman about the destruction of Verdania

[cedar skiff]

for a bit i struggled to put together why first sinner was so pissed but i guess they just found out they werent gms actual daughters and just uplifted spiders... its kinda so on the nose i was upset for not clokcing immediately

[teal finch]

bilewater is literally like that because of the citadel also

[spring escarp]

I believe the haunting is caused by the fact she is asleep, putting everyone in a incoherent sleepinf state aswell

[ebon silo]

Atleast purified ducts is....peaceful

[cedar skiff]

gms is a shitty fucking mother but that wont stop her from trying 3 separate times

[ember river]

Could be an indication of her starting to wake

[spring escarp]

ye

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, its said it had clear waters before the citidel

[toxic quest]

since when did bugs get access to semiauto bruh

[spring escarp]

Albeit it seems she can't

[ember river]

So parts of her will override other bugs through their silk

[ember river]

I think that's what she needed the weavers for, not more silk generation

[ebon silo]

Semiauto?

[honest anvil]

if you were told your entire life that you were the daughter of a goddess, and a divine being yourself, blessed with power and the divine right to rule.... and then you found out you were literally just a bug, like any other bug, and your 'mother' just gave you magic powers, you'd be pretty pissed

[spring escarp]

She got and consumed lots of weavers tho

[viscid ridge]

Im pretty sure that Barnacle area is to the right of the pale lake, team cherry jyst have to give us a way to access it in dlc😩

[toxic quest]

do we know why she was capturing weavers tho, i've heard a bunch of theories but nothing that seems really satisfying or backed up

[spring escarp]

They are dead, well aprtially weavers

[cedar skiff]

yeah truu i realised that myself while writing an analaysis doc

[ember river]

Where? I'm interested

[spring escarp]

Probably to sue them as ana larm clock

[craggy bison]

maybe weavers deserved to go extinct

[spring escarp]

tje xages in the cradle

[ember river]

Not really

[ebon silo]

Why would you let the baddies go extinct have you seen the first sinner

[cedar skiff]

she was capturing weavers cause she lowkey just missed them is my best bet

[scenic stirrup]

Yknow the pilgrims cloth quest on a new playthrough the bug corpses get stripped lol

[viscid ridge]

My interpretation is that she wanted her silk back idk, i still don't know

[cedar skiff]

thats why she made phantom and lace, to fill the void

[scenic stirrup]

Insane detail

[ebon silo]

And because she needed more silk

[spring escarp]

Maybe she looks for weavers to wake her up if they don't the next best thing is consuming their silk.

[ember river]

We get records of two eigth part weavers, one fourth part weavers, and hornet being half part weaver.
Coincidentally, they all add up to 1 full weaver

[cedar skiff]

i really dont see how the silk would be an issue, she is the source of silk and there was so much of it in the kingdom already within the bugs

[craggy bison]

they created capitalism and slavery in pharloom

[spring escarp]

Perhaps she needs to extend the lenght of her silk to look farther

[spring escarp]

Hence why it took so long for hornet to be taken

[scenic stirrup]

Just noticed it

[ebon silo]

Still a baddie in everyone's eyes

[craggy bison]

who is everyone unc

[cedar skiff]

“After all... it's you that she wants... is it not?”

[honest anvil]

she made the weavers in the first place for the purpose of song
"...For her light... eternal... our song sustains..."
i don't know what that exactly means - whether it's song as worship for the purpose of worship or as a source of power, but that's why she made them

[spring escarp]

Does this mean anything?

[ember river]

The original citadel was considerably different, I'm not sure if they still had the underworks or if its scale was more reduced

[spring escarp]

Indecent

[viscid ridge]

My guess is her power is devided between the weavers, but im still not sure, cause if she is tge primordial source of silk why would she care??

[craggy bison]

that's true ig

[cedar skiff]

yeah exactly its def not about the silk

[ebon silo]

Hold on who tf made the traps in the citadel like Mr weavers and miss weavers was that shit necessary

[ember river]

Maybe she needed 1 full weaver to break her seal and wanted to use Hornet to complete that
So when Hornet broke it on her own terms she could oppose her

[ember river]

I have no idea about those

[honest anvil]

she's a pale being - she wants to grow, to expand, to dominate more and more. it's in her nature. that's enough reason in itself to look for more power

[toxic quest]

that's an interesting theory honestly

[ember river]

But the cog core wasn't designed to be maintained by organics

[spring escarp]

But she had a full weaver in the cages already didn't her?

And her cage is on the bottom of the pit

[ember river]

They did? I don't know

Is the corpse there?

[honest anvil]

three weavers crafted the traps
their names were ari, william, and jack

[spring escarp]

You just said they added up to 1 full weaver

[cedar skiff]

yet that natural drive as a pale being is completely cast aside when lace is put in danger, the true ending is pure cinema

[ember river]

With Hornet, yes, but Hornet could escape before reaching the Cradle

[spring escarp]

Or like, it would add up if we count hornet?

[cedar skiff]

also you guys widow is a seemingly full weaver that returns, also waiting for gms to wake, why didnt she just do it herself?

[buoyant salmon]

also why all Snail Shaman dead?

[ember river]

Yeah, it's 1/8+1/8+1/4+Hornet

[viscid ridge]

Its strange that you mention that, cause i dont think there are any weaver men. We only see weaver women, and they are also always referred to as sister spiders. So my assumption is that weavers are all only women

[honest anvil]

she has giant nails in her spine

[spring escarp]

We don't know if they are dead

[toxic quest]

maybe whatever happened to her prevents it from working, im pretty sure its implied that she tried

[ebon silo]

It's said they're all daughters of GM so yeah there's no male weaver

[ember river]

Weaver reproduction was retconned

They used to be more normal and have plenty of children

[viscid ridge]

How so?

[spring escarp]

yes

[buoyant salmon]

they literally only have shells left behind

did you play Act 3 at all?

[spring escarp]

Not convinced leaving the shells means anything

[ember river]

In HK you can find little weavers

[spring escarp]

Also they might just be inside the shells

[buoyant salmon]

?????????????????????

[ember river]

Nah the shamans are dead

[spring escarp]

Why would they be dead

[buoyant salmon]

when you hit them, nothing make sound

the light are dim af

[ember river]

They probably used their own strength for the spell in addition to the hearts

[spring escarp]

Maybe

[craggy bison]

i'm gonna crash out

[honest anvil]

do we know the little weavers are actually weavers? they could just be weaver-like

[craggy bison]

i thought silksong will complete the hollow knight lore and fill in the missing details

[ember river]

Yeah they are described as young weavers

[spring escarp]

little weavers?

[craggy bison]

but it just created even more questions

[buoyant salmon]

this guy just denied that Shaman is part of the old void civilization

[toxic quest]

weaverling charm from hk

[spring escarp]

The pharlids?

[ember river]

I considered that possibility

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but how does that retcon? I assume most of the weaver children are halfspawn, same as with hornet and the other weavers that were captured.

[craggy bison]

no little weavers in hk

[cedar skiff]

if weaver reproduction was truly retconned its one of the better retcons

[honest anvil]

weaversong definitely doesn't give you, like. living creations. those are magic little soul friends

[cedar skiff]

what we have now is much more interesting

[spring escarp]

I didn't I am just not sure

[ember river]

I mean, I think they delve with void but they aren't a part of the same ancient civilization we saw in Hallownest

[spring escarp]

I raised the hypothesis by myself even

[toxic quest]

oop u right, but weaverlings are enemies in hk right

[ebon silo]

There's a setting that enables no hud right?

[buoyant salmon]

-using void power
-keep murmuring about a lost kingdom
-creeping on everyone

[spring escarp]

yes

[spring escarp]

Yes but who knows

[cedar skiff]

yeah but whats to say the weaverlings arent just weavers in the sense that they are bugs before they were uplifted by a pale being (gms)

[spring escarp]

red herrings perhaps

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i also think shamans aren't part of the void civilization but still has connections to the void. Its very strange

[spring escarp]

I give it 80% odds

[honest anvil]

there is a cut enemy that was planned that was a weaver but they are not in the game. other than that, no

[ebon silo]

Y'know weavers kinda hated wyrms or the pale king I think

[ember river]

They also used normal soul power, that was their main theme during HK

[spring escarp]

Didn't the pale king hunt snail shamns?

[hardy linden]

Where is this shown?

[ember river]

They probably hated pale monarchs in general

[craggy bison]

those are pharlids no?

[spring escarp]

Maybe he wanted tips on how to use abyss tech

[ember river]

Due to their own experience

[ebon silo]

Red memory first scene

[buoyant salmon]

the tiles isn't part the floor even though they are connected to it

that what you sound like

[viscid ridge]

I dont think so, i think everyone just avoided them cause they were weird

[cedar skiff]

man fuck i dont even remember i gotta dig through the hk wiki again

[ebon silo]

Shows us if your more weaver than wyrm other wise we are literally going to tear you apart

[spring escarp]

Maybe that is why they were a headache, hated pale being sna dhad experience tackling one

[honest anvil]

there's something called a 'little weaver' that is an enemy, but we don't really know what it is. i mean, apparently it's a little weaver

[hardy linden]

That sounded more like them wanting Hornet to be more like them than the Wyrm out of pride or something, at least to me

[spring escarp]

They literally hid as much a spossible

[cedar skiff]

i think they just had beef with the pale king

[craggy bison]

i don't remember them saying that last part

[ebon silo]

Only the first part

[ember river]

They don't

[robust wagon]

They have trauma with pale beings lmao

[buoyant salmon]

they being racist

[spring escarp]

They hate whites

[viscid ridge]

Pale king used void, is he part of the void civilization?

[karmic tartan]

Glory to Hallownest

[buoyant salmon]

while wearing white mask

[spring escarp]

pale being supremacy

[honest anvil]

https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/hkwiki/images/a/a4/Screenshot_HK_Little_Weaver_02.png

[ember river]

They did somewhat ally with the pale king when they found out the Radiance was probably out for them as well

[buoyant salmon]

he can't create the void energy, he using it

Snail Shaman can

[ember river]

By enslaving the minds of her children and all

[spring escarp]

yeah probably kinda late cause they were smart

I find it weird that the uplifted creatires were the smartest ones?

I'd expect them to be kinda beast like

[viscid ridge]

No they cant what the heck are you talking about? 🤣

[buoyant salmon]

also Snail Shaman knows how to use binding spell to make a void trap

[spring escarp]

Albeit irl it makes sejse

[craggy bison]

when was THAT stated

[spring escarp]

Domestication syndrome

makes creatures dumber, like humans

[buoyant salmon]

then explain how they can make a literal void portal

[edgy relic]

shamans arent creating void but they can probably manipulate it to some degree

[ebon silo]

I kinda wanna see hornet in her pale uniform

[ember river]

Snails do study the void and learn to use it, but I'm iffy on considering them a continuation of the ancient civilization

[honest anvil]

if i make a portal to the moon i don't suddenly have the power to create the moon

[ember river]

Maybe they had ties

[craggy bison]

they created a portal from the void not literally create that void

[spring escarp]

I wouldn't call continuation, I think they are descendent of survivors

As in, post apocaliptic

[viscid ridge]

Woah, is a creating a portal considered creating void now?

[spring escarp]

Not as sophisticated

[buoyant salmon]

also you guys bring Pale King in as argument, but he lỉterally study the void civilisation knowledge

[robust wagon]

Bro still praising a dead kingdom 🙏
For Pharloom eternal

[spring escarp]

My headcannon is they made the void dangerous and paid the price

[ebon silo]

The dude was a wyrm so yeah probably

[craggy bison]

atleast hallownest didn't have slavery

[ember river]

I'd say they were just another tribe who tried to use the void to further their own goals

[buoyant salmon]

that not any portal

that literally a "VOID" portal

[spring escarp]

And then after a really long time the void calmed down

[karmic tartan]

Sign the form

[hardy linden]

No cost too great

[viscid ridge]

It really took a kingdom 100 times worse than Hallownest to realize Hallownest wasnt that bad

[craggy bison]

IT'S A PORTAL THAT TELEPORTS YOU TO THE VOID

[spring escarp]

could be

[light saddle]

Void has always been the enemy of light and life — Radiance calls it “eternal enemy” or something to that effect iirc.

[ember river]

Snails are intentionally mysterious

[spring escarp]

But the parallel are significsnt

[robust wagon]

Child genocide might be worse

[karmic tartan]

No no they did

[viscid ridge]

A portal TO the void

[craggy bison]

you have literally NO proof that the snail shamans created that void

[hardy linden]

Also, Hornet wonders if she ever looked so deeply into the foundations of her kingdom (in her notes about an Underworks enemy)

[buoyant salmon]

it not
if it is, void juice would already spill out

[karmic tartan]

Remember the entry for the mini false knight guys

[spring escarp]

Yes but like, different sctivity levels

[karmic tartan]

Those guys were basically slaves so

[robust wagon]

Man fuck that guy

[spring escarp]

Pkua the void couls been fighting raidance on a metaphysicial level

[karmic tartan]

PHARLOOM PROPAGANDA

[spring escarp]

Or maybe the abyss civilization happened really early on time

[ember river]

Ancient enemy or something, PK also writes "VOID, yours is the power opposed"

[light saddle]

Eh. In that poking around the abyss might agitate it more, maybe.

[light saddle]

Ty, ty ^

[spring escarp]

exactly

[edgy relic]

another thing to consider about Shamans possibly being descendants of Ancient Civ is that it would explain the Soul Totems in HK. Snail Shamans are one of the few bugs able to naturally manipulate Soul, so its feasible the Ancient Civ could have made them because they were Snails.

[robust wagon]

ARE YOU NOT SENDING HALLOWNEST PROPAGANDA???

[teal finch]

if the snails are the ancient civ it would be an egregious retcon cause the ancient civ is something completely different in hk lmfao

[viscid ridge]

Pale king was always a good leader, he just took some questionable routs to try and save the kingdom.

[karmic tartan]

YEAH BUT ITS FUNNY WHEN I DO IT

[ember river]

Higher beings all opposed void because it's the biggest threat to their existence

[buoyant salmon]

I mean pale being like light

void is the devoid of light

[spring escarp]

Don't you think it is weirdddd

[karmic tartan]

Also daily reminder to make October Maskmaker Appreciation month

[spring escarp]

Why the snails that know so much about void

[ember river]

Void is the only thing we know that can kill higher beings

[light saddle]

I mean in the moment, though. Whenever you go near it, tendrils lash out. The liquid violence as a whole probably isn’t any more or less violent than how it began

[spring escarp]

Know so mucha about soul, its opposite?

[ember river]

They studied it, that's their thing

[spring escarp]

check the rest of the phrase on the enxt message

[robust wagon]

NUH UH

[hardy linden]

... We know that Hallownest has fallen because the Grimm Troupe went there

[spring escarp]

Yeah but my theory iz that it was much calmer and that allowed the abyss civilization to build on top of it

[ember river]

Soul isn't the opposite of the void

[spring escarp]

What is it then

It is still weird they amster these two different forces

[hardy linden]

Or they were just built different

[light saddle]

It is very weird, considering that the snail shaman from HK claimed he and his kind wouldn’t know where the Knight draws their power from

[ember river]

Existence?

[viscid ridge]

My assumption is that they are maybe just learned about soul and void, same as with the City of Steel

[spring escarp]

city of steel?

[ember river]

Shamans seem to me like they worship power in some way, and are not afraid to use void if it furthers that

[karmic tartan]

GLORY TO HALLOWNEST
In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret,
For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met,
Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed,
A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed.

Our cherished dreams you granted and delivered more,
But in dismay you found too late our desires had no end,
What cost to tame our savagery?
You gave your all and then gave more,
Yet desires still lay unquenched, more dreams remained, your energy.

Amongst it spread a dreadful scourge,
That forced return our aggressive urge,
And turned us back to beasts or husks,
Our souls consumed to the light above.

Within your corpse can still be heard the plaintiff cries of one,
Who took our pain, and loss, and dreams inside itself to...
Through it’s pain we found a truth that must now be confessed,
For nothing can contain such things but perfect emptiness.

[spring escarp]

what si that

[honest anvil]

that guy seems like he would just lie to us for fun

[robust wagon]

That's not the whole thing

[karmic tartan]

I'm missing one line man

[spring escarp]

Maybe, if they are the abyss civilization, they simply descendent from some super wise civilizationt hat amstered basicallt everything

I mean, they can bidn whole gods

With their knowledge

[robust wagon]

Still yk

[spring escarp]

Wouldn't exppect it from a irrelevant little tribe

[karmic tartan]

GLORY TO HALLOWNEST #lastandeternalkingdom

[spring escarp]

There must be more to them

[light saddle]

PK’s PR team going above and beyond

[spring escarp]

The aple king feared them and soul master tortured them

[robust wagon]

It's dead bro 🙏

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully we get more snail shamans lore cause we did at least get more lore in silksong so far

[spring escarp]

I wonder if team chefry will reveal more

[ember river]

It's odd that if they were the ancient civilization they aren't found near the abyss that often, or that they treat the void more like a tool than something to be worshipped in Silksong.
They don't seem enticed by the idea of Pharloom being consumed by the void

[spring escarp]

they are vlearly a big deal

[karmic tartan]

No idea what you mean I'm just your average Hallownest Patriot

[spring escarp]

Mahbe afye rthe evnts that destroyed the civilization they learned to not be like

[honest anvil]

there's a difference between binding a god for 5 minutes and binding a god for eternity

[spring escarp]

too obsessed

[edgy barn]

Where is it said that PK feared the shamans.

[light saddle]

[spring escarp]

they certainly did the latter

[karmic tartan]

I wholeheartedly agree with your apology

[spring escarp]

i forgot but they had to hide because of PK

[karmic tartan]

You should do it too

[viscid ridge]

Wait Pale king was a good leader? 👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀 Always was

[light saddle]

The vessel project is fake news

[spring escarp]

Rven the easy to acess one used ot be hidden before the passage crumbked

[craggy bison]

BEST leader

[robust wagon]

The only piece of evidence is the fact that the whispering root in ancestral mound mentions shunned power

[ember river]

Soul master tortured them because he wanted to learn the secrets of the soul that they knew

[karmic tartan]

You forgot the from and date tho did school never say "put your name on the paper"

[honest anvil]

when did they do that? putting a god in the void is not the same as binding it for eternity, you trapped it for like 5 minutes and then dropped it in a volcano

[craggy bison]

oh i forgot

[spring escarp]

Yeah scratch that one, still, they were an authority on it, big shots

The hermit also belittles hornet

[ember river]

Also, bind is now a word with a specific meaning, which shamans definetely cannot do

[spring escarp]

As little shit

[karmic tartan]

Yeah no but you know a true Hallownest Patriot gives all for their kingdom (3k geo jumpscare)

[viscid ridge]

Imagine being so devoted to help your kingdom, that you sacrifice your own children, even though you really didn't want to

[honest anvil]

"oh i'm so cool i can make steel melt spontaneously"
"you dropped the steel bar into a volcano after picking it up with a crane"

[spring escarp]

Here king take my child and fill it witj void

[karmic tartan]

Pale King did nothing wrong

[spring escarp]

Worth a shot

[ember river]

Can we put this discussion aside and figure out who had the coolest army attires, Hallownest or Pharloom?

[spring escarp]

Pharloom has drip

And the mask with the logo

[craggy bison]

done

[ember river]

Because Choristors are so fancy

[spring escarp]

I don't have to apologize.

Best king, knew it since the start

[karmic tartan]

You mean the discount CCC looking outfits? (can't say the name)

[honest anvil]

the knight????

[craggy bison]

i doubted him a little

[karmic tartan]

Good job good job

[ember river]

CCC?

[craggy bison]

but i know better now

[ember river]

On the other hand, the Hollow Knight had a pretty cool armor and so did Hornet for a while

[viscid ridge]

We also get confirmation in the hunters journal as to why Pharloom is more technologically advanced that Hallownest. It all comes down to Pharloom having a natural lava vein, which allowed them to be better at metalwork, and makes convenient source to create steam

[ember river]

I love that little insight

[karmic tartan]

Not gonna lie she looked like a wrapped burrito

[light saddle]

Is it even genocide if they’re not alive?

[robust wagon]

Hornet didn't have armour? The outfit from the red memory doesn't behave like armour

[karmic tartan]

CLEARLY AN INFECTED

[viscid ridge]

This is some next level Radiance propaganda

[ember river]

Isn't it static for 90% of the time and then it transforms?

[craggy bison]

wake up, dream no more

[digital hemlock]

He thought they’re not alive and won’t be right but in the end they kinda were

[craggy bison]

bro is definetly infected

[robust wagon]

She stands up and then Hornet changes to her current self

[light saddle]

Heresy. Seize him.

[karmic tartan]

"pharloom is less dead!!" Yeah keep talking with your 2 ½ more towns

[ember river]

Oh well, still a cool outfit

[craggy bison]

"Dream no More" is a fire anti radiance propaganda line

[robust wagon]

As if Dirtmouth is any better

[karmic tartan]

YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR HERESY AGAINST THE PALE KING AND SPREADING OF BLASPHEMY

[digital hemlock]

With how much plasmium I be injectin into horney I might as well be a kindly heretic

[ember river]

Dirtmouth has an accordion, I never saw a single one in the oh-so-fancy pharloom chorus

[karmic tartan]

Did you js insult elderbug

[digital hemlock]

Silksong with architects is just Joni’s bizarre adventure