sk-lore

[keen compass]

temporarily that is

[next sable]

I... honestly don't think we have enough info to draw conclusions

[limpid summit]

I think you’re reading too much into her wording she doesn’t have to say “I doubt” or “none likely” for us to get the gist of her words

[keen compass]

If the void was permanently united, it wouldn't harm or attack Hornet in act 3

[next sable]

TC probably wanted to keep the endings as ambiguous as possible while also confirming that silksong is a sequel, and this is what they came up with

[quartz plinth]

I don't want to be lumped togheter with morally reprehensible people and media illiterates because one will never escape or redeem themselves from that if its the case, its just that simple

[spark valve]

... ok you're baiting

[elfin niche]

Radiance: Dreams
Pale King: Soul
GMS: Silk
White Lady: ???

[quartz plinth]

Anyways i gotta ask, whats the deal with The hunter ants, do they have a leader or something? Why are they scattered all over pharloom?

[elfin niche]

Like conceptually what is she the personification of

[somber storm]

TC retconned a bit too much, i don't think there's a point in trying to figure out which hk ending is canon

[keen compass]

I mean its pretty cut and dry that DMN or ETV are canonical

[next sable]

wow, there's a lot to unpack here. first, people can always improve. it's whether you choose to that matters.

second, you're already technically media illiterate just judging from your world view

[misty umbra]

I would say ETV is canon and only it... The only issue i have with this idea is that... Well... Whats with OG Hollow Knight? Does hornet know that she got saved by "the little ghost"? Is she aware that he has perfect control over the void?
... In the mean time DNM makes not really sense since you can clearly see the shade lord showing up... something which is not a thing in that ending...

[keen compass]

yes, get to act 3

[next sable]

i know. that was the point of my sentence

we know it's either, but not definitively which one

[keen compass]

Yes she knows, her eyes widen in response to his showing up to save her butt in act 3

[next sable]

hence, vague as possible while also confirming silksong is a sequel

[limpid summit]

I’m not I don’t believe Dream no More is the ending that Silksong follows
I’ve been exclusively arguing from a lore standpoint but metawise I disagree even more

[quartz plinth]

Hear me out on this, she might be the personification of New life/reproduction, her whole thing was giving birth to thousands of vessels and having to restrain herself with magical binds to stop herself from breeding, she might be the incarnation of the desire of giving new life, so to speak

[rough sandal]

Guys is it known if Silksong is a sequel or a prequel?

[limpid summit]

Sequel

[quartz plinth]

She is a tree after all, a tree will always grow again after it's been cut down

[abstract sentinel]

do you just enjoy complaining

[whole juniper]

Sequel

[foggy fractal]

they had a leader, Skarrsinger Karmelita, however she grew old and weak tho after the arrival of GMS so her followers spread out
thats afaik the gist of it

[keen compass]

yes, its a sequel as confirmed by the canonical endings of HK being either DMN or ETV

[next sable]

they're a conquering kind of people. they just invade wherever they go iirc

[misty umbra]

yeah that's fair... She at the very least recognizes the knight.

[elfin niche]

The trouble with the Godseeker endings is they must be so random from Hornet's perspective

[whole juniper]

they don’t have a personification they are just the god of something

[next sable]

is white lady even a higher being

[spark valve]

Watch the cutscene

[whole juniper]

The pale king isn’t even the personification of soul

[narrow glacier]

So correct me if I’m wrong, but is Silk a Weaver’s way of manipulating/manifesting soul?

[keen compass]

yea its very obvious she knows its him

[elfin niche]

She has no way of knowing the Knight was doing stuff inside the collective consciousness of a God

[edgy barn]

She is

[keen compass]

yes but also no

[whole juniper]

A personification of the king would more so be knowledge

[keen compass]

this is true, Hornet most likely thinks that the knight just succeeded but isnt aware of wut happened to him or how

[spark valve]

she knows it succeeded

[rough sandal]

nice

[main osprey]

So I was at Pilgrims Rest, why does the Weary Pilgrim turn Hostile after Sherma leaves

[keen compass]

so her eyes widening in shock in act 3's ending could also be her going: wait, what, you're alive? double what? you're a god? triple what? you can unite the void?

[narrow glacier]

Which got me wondering if there were other ways

[next sable]

hornet also assumes TK is dead from any of the endings

[keen compass]

the music was keeping the threads at bay

[whole juniper]

she knew it was in the dream realm fighting the radiance, how else would she know to perfectly put it so the knight could dream nail it

[main osprey]

I could also see silk which I'm sure wasn't there before

[spark valve]

she knows enough about the mechanics of the situation that there's no reason for her to make the assumption

[main osprey]

Forgive me but when I went there before Sherma wasn't there and there wasn't music?

[keen compass]

the needolin, music, etc. seem to have a unique power to ward off grandmother silk's control

[next sable]

considering that she sees the split shell of TK, you'd have to make a pretty convincing argument to tell me that Hornet doesn't think TK is dead

[main osprey]

So what caused it to stop, or what was playing before Sherma turned up?

[misty umbra]

Maybe Hornet has a hunch on the powers of the knight since she was semie aware of what was going on in God home... Based on her dream nail dialog in that.

[whole juniper]

depends what ending takes place

[next sable]

not to mention it either gets consumed by void or disappeared during godhome ending

[whole juniper]

it’s probably that one or embrace the void

[spark valve]

she knows what unification is and the same thing that unifies the void removes its need for the shell

[quartz plinth]

Media illiteratte is when you are litterally asking to be spoonfed to avoid having bad/problematic interpretations according to you, thats really dissapointing

[next sable]

where does it say the second point? i must have missed that

[next sable]

ironic, considering that's exactly what you have been doing

[keen compass]

I am 90% sure the canonical ending is ETV

[spark valve]

void heart itself says that the knight's void is no longer constrained

[next sable]

does hornet know that...?

[keen compass]

Given that in etv specifically, the shades all get absorbed and taken with the knight

[whole juniper]

where is the shade lord then

[quartz plinth]

Yes, and you think it's a bad thing for some reason

[misty umbra]

god i love that entire scene as confusing as it is xD

[spark valve]

she knows every other part of it so probably

[keen compass]

literally flashes into existence in the same clip, one sec

[spark valve]

this is meant to be an acknowledgement to dnm where you kill radiance alongside all the siblings

[whole juniper]

oh

[keen compass]

i recorded the finale lol

[whole juniper]

nvm don’t spoil me

[keen compass]

dude, this is the lore chat

[spark valve]

hornet is hallucinating or having visions before she passes out and she flashes visions of the siblings, in a way more concordant with dnm, and then the vgfocus, which is more concordant with the other, then it cuts back to reality and neither is there. It's meant to be ambiguous

[whole juniper]

you can just say words instead of showing me

words are pretty efficient I think

[keen compass]

i am showing as way of proof? lol

[misty umbra]

#sk-lore message
Someone posted that frame too

[foggy fractal]

all spoilers allowed baby let's go

[whole juniper]

No I believe you

[somber storm]

it seems like shitty writing to me lol, they wanted to make void lord seem evil and out of control in etv, then retconned him to save hornet in sister of the void which felt like fanservice

[whole juniper]

idk why you’d lie 😭

[foggy fractal]

wait wait what if we have a new psa
instead of jokerpsa we have tammopsa

[spark valve]

etv is bad yes

[keen compass]

what i find interesting is that it just FLASHES to the lord of the void, but the knight remains together

[next sable]

i never got that impression that shade lord was evil though

[foggy fractal]

do you see the vision.

[keen compass]

i think this raises a new question

[whole juniper]

it probably could become that when it wants

[keen compass]

if the void lord and knight are one in the same, why do they flash between one another

[somber storm]

seemed pretty violent to me

[spark valve]

because tc is acknowledging both endings as possibilities

[next sable]

out of control? yes. evil? not really

[keen compass]

is the knight being its shade lord form a sign that this is the knight acting out of its own wants and not the void's?

[misty umbra]

maybe

[spark valve]

it's a way of nodding at both endings without exclusively picking one

[rotund roost]

Is the game beatable

[whole juniper]

well it was the knights will to destroy the radiance in godhome ending too so maybe he can control it

[keen compass]

cuz the void lord appears specifically when the void wanted to rock the radiance's everlovin shite

[keen compass]

i disagree

I think this is clearly it picking a side

[spark valve]

it's not

[somber storm]

i don't even think the game assigns any meaning to the void lord aside from making the dlc ending look cooler than the default one

[keen compass]

the void lord doesnt appear in DNM

[elfin niche]

I wonder how Silksong's boss run DLC will be explained in lore terms.

[misty umbra]

yeah we might be overthingking this... I liked both endings so im cool with them kind of just winging that the knight is just controlling the void now.

[elfin niche]

Will they just use the Godseeker again?

[spark valve]

and the siblings fighting alongside the knight don't appear in etv

[elfin niche]

I feel there's unfinished material there.

[next sable]

TK's small shade form doesn't appear in ETV either though

[keen compass]

good point

[spark valve]

they are acknowledging BOTH endings in a way that doesn't exclusively fix either as the one that definitely happened

[next sable]

so like... eh, it could be either (or it could somehow be both, idk)

[blissful harbor]

godseekers focus is just TK at peak potential, the way i see it that flash of shade lord is hornet kinda sensing it within TK

[keen compass]

i will say, it feels like etv makes more sense given it'd solve that annoying as frick cliffhanger ending lmfao

[narrow glacier]

I’ll never get over how much dread void stuff fills me with. Especially the Shade Lord

[whole juniper]

well you see the shade ball go into the void so there’s no telling if that was the shade of the knight with tendrils

[gleaming creek]

I assumed that Shade Lord and the Knight are the same entity?

[foggy fractal]

if they wanted to clearly pick etv, they would've shown exclusively void given focus
if they wanted to clearly pick dnm, they would've shown exclsuively void given form, siblings and thk

[whole juniper]

yes

[spark valve]

that is in dnm not etv

[whole juniper]

well i think

[keen compass]

random note

[next sable]

tbf, THK could have also just keeled over and died immediately after. he was already missing an arm and his body was fully infected with pustules. he's not living for very long after that

[keen compass]

why DIDNT the hollow knight appear in act 3's finale too? leavin out a sibling fr

[whole juniper]

no in dnm the shell explodes the ball doesn’t go into void

[spark valve]

the ending that shows the siblings going to rest is dnm

[gleaming creek]

Maybe it shrank down to be fun sized like all other void ghost? 🙂

[next sable]

(i actually think TC may have forgotten him lmao)

[keen compass]

wait wouldnt this make ETV the canon ending? cuz if the hollow knight isn't there, that'd mean he didnt join the void in its fight against the radiance and died in the cliffhanger ending against hornet

[spark valve]

no it wouldn't mean that

[whole juniper]

ok you just don’t know what im talking abkht

[misty umbra]

Yes... which makes me think that the knight would just ran off to the abyss once he got out of the god seeker... even if that entire ending looked very violent. You could say that he just saw the insane power god seekers have and wanted to delete them cause of that.

[edgy barn]

Why would anybody write that though

[next sable]

just remember that THK's shade appeared in its own dream. it's not like he had to get his shell split open to access his own head

[narrow glacier]

I’m thinking that’s Team Cherry’s way of saying both Godseeker and Dream no More endings can both lead into Silksong

[spark valve]

it is!

[next sable]

same here

[spark valve]

it seems really self explanatory I'm astonished this is even a debate

[prisma quail]

Think you figured it out

[narrow glacier]

But what I’m wondering is if we will ever see what comes of The Hollow Knight waking up to Hornet after Godseeker

[next sable]

until we get more lore about the void, which HK ending doesn't really matter

[keen compass]

so we goin the Drakengard/NieR route then ig?

[edgy barn]

Why make a cliffhanger with the hollow knight being alive and free of the Infection and then it turns out they just died right away.

[keen compass]

where ending E and ending C both leading into 'x' game on the timeline

[next sable]

until godseeker comes by or more void lore comes out, yes

[foggy fractal]

why can't thk just be chilling in the abyss/resting like the other siblings do in dnm ?

[gleaming creek]

I personally interpreted it more as Godseekers digging their own grave, taunting the Knight, calling it weak. This ended up causing it to eventually ascend into proper godhood.

[keen compass]

btw I do think I know how we'll get Silksong dlc

[next sable]

you mean, for free like HK?

[whole juniper]

because it probably couldn’t make the trek down

[keen compass]

anyone notice on the bellbeast's track that its... incomplete?

[edgy barn]

Yeah I did

[prisma quail]

This means DNM is canon because shade lord only flashes for a brief moment

[gleaming creek]

Me too

[next sable]

don't we traverse the empty spots anyways though?

[keen compass]

there's also the fact there are those three deposits of specific ore

[prisma quail]

Implying ETV is considered just an extra

[foggy fractal]

then I raise the question of how did the siblings appear in the regular radiance fight

[prisma quail]

How so

[keen compass]

the ore deposits you cant interact with but cant do anything with are lightning, fire, and ice

[spark valve]

the issue is that the siblings appear also only in a flash

they're acknowledging both

[steady prawn]

i think the delicate flower is made of soul, potententially the soul left from a dead pale being

[keen compass]

it has ending points that branch off but no stops to be found, could mean future stops to be added

[foggy fractal]

you mean the map for the fast travel has paths that don't actually have locations ? then yeah I've noticed

[keen compass]

you also got the three ore stuff

[meager drum]

is there anything explaining what direction hallownest is?

[keen compass]

west

you enter the kingdom from the west side of the map, so hallownest would be west

[next sable]

speaking of, delicate flower lore has gotten way messier. we originally assume it's from ze'mer's homeland, but now we get info that it's part of a pale being's legacy? ("our family's defense against the void" - WL)

[prisma quail]

Aesthetic choice

[meager drum]

isnt that just an exit? does it specifically lead straight to hallownest?

[next sable]

like, where tf did the everbloom actually come from?

[burnt summit]

TBH feels like if that was the intention it was more confusing than it is helpful

[keen compass]

not straight to hallownest, its just in that vast general direction

[whole juniper]

because the egg was made of void so it’s already in contact with the hk body it just needed to enter its mind

[prisma quail]

Probably just the entrance

[spark valve]

it's really not confusing

[prisma quail]

There’s no sense of direction

[next sable]

red memory implies that white lady had it as an emergency defense resource against void, but that contradicts with the fact that we see no other everblooms in Hallownest other than Ze'mer

[keen compass]

it wasnt for that

[meager drum]

I feel like east or straight backwards is more likely, because of the squits in bilewater and the lifeblood

[keen compass]

the clear implication is that the everbloom was how the pale king setup shop in the void without being consumed

[keen compass]

dude built all his fancy stuff by havin a flower most likely

[next sable]

uh, yeah, idk

that statement implies way more than "pk used it to build stuff"

[keen compass]

it was deep in hornet's memory, like so deep she is wearing pale king-esque garb at the time

[lime nova]

I still can't believe Mossbag was right about Pale Beings being above Higher Beings

[spark valve]

he wasn't

[keen compass]

their family is forever linked by all the void babies they made in an attempt to get the hollow knight

[keen compass]

he was not

[burnt summit]

How is showing two timelines at the same time in an unclear way not confusing?

[lime nova]

Doesn't this game keep referring to Pale Beings as a separate, distinct thing that acts in a certain way?

[next sable]

no, pale beings are higher beings

just a subset of higher beings

[keen compass]

they're just higher beings, but not above others

[lime nova]

Then why the distinction?

[spark valve]

because it's clearly indicating that either could have happened

[keen compass]

because higher beings come in variations

the pale king, the radiance, the void, grandmother silk

[next sable]

there's unn and the mushroom one, for example

nightmare heart too

[lime nova]

In Verdantia Hornet says that the nature of Pale Beings is that you either serve them, or are destroyed

[keen compass]

correct

grandmother silk is prob a pale being is my theory

[next sable]

tbf, she was probably talking about her own experiences with hallownest

[lime nova]

Pretty sure they say that multiple times

[edgy barn]

I mean I think that's made pretty obvious

[steady prawn]

it could be both, i would want to be buried in my homeland

[misty umbra]

pretty sure she just reefers to the void here and not the flower.

[keen compass]

where do they SAY it?

[whole juniper]

almost definitely

[whole juniper]

the snail shamans

[next sable]

the void is "the first light"? how can the void resist itself?

[keen compass]

Yea, she has a permanently natural glow, is beautiful, and bangs

[lime nova]

I'll try and find an exact source but I know it was said at some point

[keen compass]

oh right i forgor

[misty umbra]

i mean she is called one by Hornet isn't she?

[whole juniper]

there’s some other instances too that I forgot

[keen compass]

btw what is with pale beings and producing children that get cursed/infected in some way

Lace, Hollow Knight, Hornet arguably

[next sable]

honestly, fair enough. everblooms can grow in hallownest, so it's possible (albeit a stretch)

[rigid vale]

New trend

[lime nova]

I'm kinda curious how lineage works with Higher Beings. Hornet is directly descended from one, but is a few generations off of Silk, so I do wonder how that factors into things

[keen compass]

hornet is the daughter of the pale king

[lime nova]

There's also that whole "Weaver, in eighth part" thing

[next sable]

pretty sure hornet is literally a grandchild of silk

[keen compass]

^

[lime nova]

Yeah I know

[next sable]

grand mother silk is a pun

[lime nova]

So Herrah is directly Silk's daughter?

[next sable]

all weavers are

[keen compass]

Hornet is the daughter of three queens, granddaughter of silk

[prisma quail]

What was the whole deal with those recipe shit

I forgot which dev it was but Ari or Matthew was really into that

[keen compass]

grand mother silk I feel was trying to become a being above high

that or sustain her rules indefinitely

[next sable]

don't forget, weavers are also pretty much immortal, judging from first sinner

[misty umbra]

No the light is the flower. The family is linked with the void. Unless i really do not understand that sentence, i think it's clear that she means "this flower helped to protect us from the void while we are working with it."

[lime nova]

No. Some weavers are "in eighth part" or "twelveth part",

[spark valve]

you find first sinner as a corpse I'm not sure she's evidence of that

[foggy fractal]

I would argue Hornet isn't the grandchild of GMS because she made existing creatures into Weavers, doesn't matter too much tho I think either way they're related

[keen compass]

i feel grand mother silk had parallels with pale king given they produced failed heirs that couldnt complete their plan of indefinite reign and required a 3rd party

[next sable]

i mean, you fight her. she seems alive and well lol

[keen compass]

yes, its the latter

[edgy barn]

The weavers aren't Silk's children, there's a whole piece of dialogue about the weavers being angry about Silk having lied to them about that

[prisma quail]

What was the reason Hornet was captured again

[lime nova]

Pretty sure Widow is referred to as "in eighth part" or something, lemme reread the dialogue

[spark valve]

in a memory of some sort

[next sable]

oh my god, i am not having this discussion again

[spark valve]

the arena isn't even the same

[next sable]

yes it fucking is

[keen compass]

for her silk, which is especially unique due to her being related to the pal king

[whole juniper]

she looks more than a eight

[keen compass]

pharloom was running out of silk, something that grand mother silk needs to sustain her rule

[prisma quail]

Was there no event that prompted it, they just wanted better silk

[whole juniper]

it wasn’t because it wa unique

[whole juniper]

no it was for lace…

[prisma quail]

She can’t produce silk?

[edgy barn]

Wait that lore table was referring to Window?

[steady prawn]

it would also make sense as to how hornet can pull it out her soul

[next sable]

the needles are the same in both images as well as the floor. the only difference is the first sinner herself

[whole juniper]

she could but she needed a shit load to sustain lace

[keen compass]

explain cuz i might've misunderstood

[spark valve]

she also doesn't create a cocoon when killing you, just like the other memory bosses

[prisma quail]

What was the point of Lace

[spark valve]

look again the background and floor are different

[keen compass]

i know she cares a fuckton for lace

[true vector]

Is the everbloom the delicate flower

[whole juniper]

a daughter is better than none

[prisma quail]

Obviously

[next sable]

there is no background, first of all. second, we never gain access to dreams until act 3

[lime nova]

Someone to carry out her duty while she's in stasis

[keen compass]

i actually found it super sweet that grand mother silk was willing to give everything she had and was for her daughter

[patent agate]

it's a recreation of the delicate flower pulled from hornet's memories, having sacrificed the memories of three great beings and the entire souls of all three shamans

[whole juniper]

she couldn’t make enough silk to sustain lace so her followers hunted the weavers

[spark valve]

there is during the fight, and you can play the needolin earlier

[next sable]

and even then, the prereq to dreams is either shaman shenanigans or needolin, so first sinner being a dream boss makes no sense

[prisma quail]

Why is everyone haunted, are they supposed to be

[next sable]

it literally does nothing though...

[lime nova]

That needs to be cropped, my b

[prisma quail]

Why is Pharloom referred to as a fallen kingdom if there’s GMS

[spark valve]

also this is after the fight

the funeral spire is still there

[patent agate]

is that what it is? i have an entirely different headcanon as to what happened but i dunno if it's accurate

[spark valve]

during the fight it's gone and there's silk in the background and on the floor like in the memory sequence

[next sable]

through what mechanism do you enter a dream then? there is no way to forcibly bring someone into a dream besides the literal dreamers themselves

[lime nova]

What do you guys think of this guy's theory

[spark valve]

and before the fight

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah the arena changes during the fight
before and after it looks the same

odd

[spark valve]

it's almost like
it's not physically there

[next sable]

(i will say though, it's strange that dying to first sinner doesn't bench you)

[foggy fractal]

hmmmmmm #noticing

[keen compass]

i find it really cool the dream nail kind of made a comeback

[whole juniper]

Yeah

[keen compass]

this could be a game choice or a sign it was a dream fight

[next sable]

but also, your tools don't get replenished unlike other dream bosses, so... eh?

[prisma quail]

Who even was Eva

[foggy fractal]

I didn't notice it before lmao
but yeah it changes right after the first sinner hops out of their thingamajig

[keen compass]

as i said, prob a game choice or sign it was a dream fight

[spark valve]

the fact that you wake up after it in the arena restored to its state prior to the fight

[foggy fractal]

right

[lime nova]

A child of weavers who came out wrong

[next sable]

another point against first sinner being a dream boss is that absolution is granted through death and absolution for first sinner is denied

[whole juniper]

they have to be compatible to get eighth weavers

[spark valve]

that just means they aren't executing her

[keen compass]

btw first sinner is my fave boss fight in the game straigt up

first sinner felt like an HK boss, and i love it

[next sable]

if that were the case, they would want to keep her alive as long as possible so that she can't die

[edgy barn]

You don't have to be dead to be a dream boss

ex: the Skarrsinger

[keen compass]

as shown by ant queen

[edgy barn]

And the Green Prince

[lime nova]

Eva was likely a failed attempt at creating Lace. Eva is likely a reference to Eve, the first woman

[keen compass]

green prince has a fight?

[next sable]

but also, nobody in HK except for the dreamers are capable of forcing you into a dream

[edgy barn]

Yes

[keen compass]

oh god damnit

I knew i had 93% completion for a reason

[next sable]

(hmm, now that i think of it, i need to check the hunter journal to see if the dream bosses have particles around their image)

[spark valve]

so what that doesn't mean first sinner can't do it especially when hornet is already in the process of magically interacting with her

[lime nova]

Lol

[keen compass]

oooo good idea

[foggy fractal]

damn, First Sinner, I wasn't really familar with your game.

[whole juniper]

because they’re in the dream realm already i guess

[spark valve]

in any case the first sinner fight is obviously not physically happening the fact that hornet wakes up to the arena changes being undone is damning as hell

[keen compass]

btw i love how much more personality hornet's entries have

[narrow glacier]

Nah, the red ant queen boss makes it obvious that you don’t need to be dead for it to be a dream boss

[patent agate]

dogshit opinion incoming!

my personal headcanon on what exactly was going on there is that Grandmother Silk was sealed away just like Radiance in the first game

Pharloom was a silk-averse place that absolutely despied Weavers, and as such, they captured weavers and trapped them until they basically died
grandmother silk was trapped in there along with all the rest, in her own special containment cell
though that fell apart

and so grandmother silk lashed out because her weavers were being basically killed, and started basically crushing pharloom and afflicting pilgrims with the curse

hornet's captured at the start of the game by a small caravan that traps her and her powers, and diminishes her abilities, but GM silky breaks the bridge and the seal to free her

hornet ends up turning against GM silky because, regardless of lineage, GM silky is making the innocent suffer equally as much as those at fault

which also explains why GM silk's bossfight is so easy, she's not really fighting at her full power, she doesn't REALLY want to kill one of her own Weavers

afterall, hornet's the one that Challenges her in the first place

but she still does if she wins

i can be completely wrong, i haven't read on any of the lore or anything, this is just conjecture i put together based on what i witnessed in the game

[keen compass]

you guys think the dlc will take place in a dream world again

[whole juniper]

You guys aren’t thinking very hard… you don’t have to be dead to have a dream boss look at Bretta

[keen compass]

this is quickly disproven by the fact its called the 'cradle'

[spark valve]

this is not remotely relevant to anyone's point

nobody is saying fs is dead because she's a dream fight

[next sable]

unfortunately, there are no particles anywhere whatsoever

[keen compass]

oofies

[patent agate]

it's called the cradle now, just like the abyss is called the abyss
it could also just have been a fancy name to keep GM silk contained considering the pharloom denizens really like their fancy things

[next sable]

strange, actually. i wouldn't think that would be an oversight

[keen compass]

anyways, its clear that grand mother silk from the get go has been controlling things and managing stuff

[whole juniper]

so why is there weaver architecture everywhere

[keen compass]

its called the cradle because thats where lace got made most likely

also its clear grand mother silk wanted weavers for her own devices

[whole juniper]

Lace also literally slept in the cradle

[next sable]

although... the journal does mention first sinner's power as coming from her "husk" rather than "shell", so FS really might be dead

[keen compass]

given the cages that once held them were in the cradle

[foggy fractal]

the fact that Hornet respawns outside of the arena when dying is also damning as hell
TC doesn't care about runbacks 💀

[patent agate]

and i also personally think that GM silk's not directly controlling everyone she afflicts the curse upon, like not their every single action, i think it's more like loose control

@whole juniper probably because weaver containment started failing over time until gmsilk's failed

@keen compass i do think gmsilk wanted weavers for her own devices, but don't think she wanted to do anything particularly bad to them, either; i think those cages were to trap them much like they trapped hornet and, i think, some kind of it trapped silk too
like, lace being created after gmsilk broke out, so gmsilk has at least something she can protect and care for no matter what

this is all just my genuinely dogshit opinion btw
i recognize i may be wrong

[keen compass]

she definitely wanted to do bad shit to them, what lol

[patent agate]

it's just what i got from playing and brainstorming by myself up to this point

[keen compass]

whiteward

[pulsar peak]

I have a question. Do yall think the God Tamer is from Pharloom?

[keen compass]

not to mention using a weaver's power/silk clearly kills them

[gray iris]

whats the lore reason trobbio says trobbio but poshanka is not named poshanka

[patent agate]

what i'm saying is that i think the cages were not made under her command, i think they were made by the pharloom citadel's people that were trapping weavers like they trapped gmsilk herself

[next sable]

i... don't see why that would be the case

[pulsar peak]

Think about it. In Hollow Knight, how many ants do we actually see?

[spark valve]

none

[keen compass]

hot take, maybe given she seems to be an ant

[blissful harbor]

none, godtamer is dressed like one though

[next sable]

trobbio just likes screaming his name. he is a theater kid after all

[whole juniper]

so why would they stay there to build structures? If you theories correct then they’d want to get as far away as possible

[keen compass]

and who would the citadel's people be?....

[gray iris]

checks out

[steady prawn]

does the red memory mean that hornet is void?

[foggy fractal]

no ?

[patent agate]

the people hunting down the rest of the weavers?

[blissful harbor]

she has armor on

[keen compass]

the one who wanted the citadel made was grand mother silk

[spark valve]

the citadel caste didn't trap gms the weavers did

[whole juniper]

mikas theory is pretty much 100% incorrect

[spark valve]

no the weavers made it to imprison her

[foggy fractal]

what in Red Memory would suggest Hornet is void ?

[tawdry flare]

The presence of the color black

[gray iris]

whats the lore reason some fleas are humans but some are dogs that is some goofy vs pluto shit

[spark valve]

[Hornet]:You speak of the Citadel? Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.[NPC]:Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule

[pulsar peak]

Id like to think God Tamer maybe came from Pharloom. Wpuld be cool

[whole juniper]

the weavers sealed her sometime after she made lace but they kept lace alive

[patent agate]

wow that's rude
man i don't mind being talked to and proven wrong because i really wanna know, but this is just genuinely super rude

[keen compass]

i thought they made the cocoon she is in when we come across her, while the citadel itself was made by grand mother silk's rule

[pulsar peak]

Hmmm

[steady prawn]

but isnt she a void ivf baby

[whole juniper]

Saying someone is wrong is rude

[blissful harbor]

same reason some bugs stand upright and some are animals, it just be like that

[tawdry flare]

I think the Fleamaster implied at some point that the little ones (and the Big one) are their young

[keen compass]

ah fair point

[spark valve]

lace is pretty competent I don't know if they kept her any sort of way vs her just escaping

[blissful harbor]

giant baby

[patent agate]

so the weavers designed the citadel, not gmsilk
why're they being trapped then

[gray iris]

yeah but pluto is not goofys son he is a dog

[keen compass]

there's no way anyone was going to contain lace lol

[whole juniper]

If they could seal gms they were capable of finding a mortal child or simply starving her of silk

[tawdry flare]

Well maybe they’re like dogs when they’re children IDK

[whole juniper]

They let her live

[spark valve]

they used a trap and probably caught gms off guard

[patent agate]

saying nothing but "you're wrong" to someone, not even directly to them, and not talking to them about it, is pretty rude yeah

[keen compass]

snare setter

[gray iris]

but like bugs of the same species are not both dogs and people

[next sable]

honestly, it's possible the weavers let lace live because it would be a shame to destroy a living being made purely out of silk that's also one of a kind

[whole juniper]

i did literally talk to you about it and you ignored what i said

[next sable]

but that's pure speculation

[spark valve]

something like it but more potent

[steady prawn]

is hornet not a void ivf baby?

[foggy fractal]

what does ivf mean

[patent agate]

fym i was talking too

[tawdry flare]

I mean they’re never treated as pets from what I’ve seen

[keen compass]

prob the same snare setter we find

[whole juniper]

the weavers probably didn’t use that

[next sable]

in vitro fertilization

basically, surrogate pregnancy

[gray iris]

they are literally dogs they go awoopo

[patent agate]

@whole juniper i was literally in the process of responding to what you said when you hit me with the "100% wrong" thing lol

[keen compass]

given we use the same snare setter but this time modified to send someone to the void- i think its the same thing lol

[kind pagoda]

||was that knight at the ending?||

[tawdry flare]

I’ve had siblings that went awoo when they were three does that make them dogs

[keen compass]

yes

[gray iris]

its weird as hell that some fleas are dogs and some are people

[spark valve]

[Hornet]:Eva, I am seeking a tool, told to be somewhere in this structure. It is a snare device of Weaver make. Do you know of it?[NPC]:I may, lady. Search over from here, on side where the moss meets the nest. There my mothers built their tools, all traps and bindings. Small things, but tests for larger forms

[keen compass]

wrong screenshot

[whole juniper]

Do you think the bosses you go into the memories of also supplied the power for it back then

[pulsar peak]

Also, im sure everyone has seen this, but does this tablet mention the infection?

[spark valve]

no

[kind pagoda]

How he is alive

[next sable]

have you ever considered they might not be dogs though

[keen compass]

i didnt see this one, good point

[next sable]

like, there's no real reason why we should assume they're dogs

[foggy fractal]

doesn't this just refer to the haunting or smth

[keen compass]

DNM and ETV endings respectively

[tawdry flare]

They just make noises?? Other than the dog noises they are not ever implied to be pets

[spark valve]

it's about silk

[gray iris]

pretty sure they are

[pulsar peak]

Thats what im wondering.

It mentions "sick"

[kind pagoda]

That's sick that they brought him back tf

Kinda open ending ngl

[keen axle]

He doesn't die in the endings

[pulsar peak]

Then, "Alive. Dead?"

[gray iris]

they make other dog sounds too i think its clear they are meant to be dogs while others are people

[next sable]

technically, it could be the infection due to the orange particles around, but that seems like a stretch and i choose to ignore that possibility considering the radiance is very much dead lol

[pulsar peak]

Which reminds of the husks in Hallownest

[whole juniper]

it isn’t alive in the first place

[lavish needle]

who is eva ?

[pulsar peak]

They arent quite fully alive... but also not dead?

[tawdry flare]

Okay ignoring the sounds are they ever implied to be pets

[next sable]

weaver attempt at creating a higher being

[pulsar peak]

Hmmm

[blissful harbor]

the lava particles?

[foggy fractal]

ok if it was the infection you'd think we'd see it in game but no
also how can radiance affect bugs this far away
nothing adds up

[keen axle]

Idk about that

[gray iris]

doesnt hornet have 1 like sitting at her feet when u travel with the caravan

[next sable]

like i said, it's a stretch and one i personally disagree with

[true vector]

Nah just silk

[gray iris]

u dont put a baby like that

[pulsar peak]

Thats what im wondering. Why mention somwthing about sickness, alive, dead "guts"

[kind pagoda]

So lace and hornet just live happily ever after or what

[gray iris]

they are literally dogs

[next sable]

there's not a lot of room in that cart lol

[keen compass]

prob not, given their lore- Pharloom used to be flooded and an ocean. It dried up centuries ago, and the rule of the khan was brought low. Then Nyla I believe is her name arrives or is there, and eventually is enshrined after bringing the wood we know to life, in which bugs just kind of existed in freedom. Lastly, we have the ant's rule which seemed to cover far field for a while, but they never got further than that and after the citadel or grand mother silk came into power- they too became halted and began to 'decay' after centuries

[tawdry flare]

It’s a tight fit to get that many fleas in a caravan

[whole juniper]

void is not alive, the vessels are not alive so why would the void in the vessels be alive

[pulsar peak]

Its just odd that it would be here of all palces

[true vector]

nah baby fleas are just weird like that

[gray iris]

yeah it seems like fleas are the only species with goofy and pluto

[keen axle]

Probably

[keen compass]

we know that the ancient civilization of void lovers that was in HK were prob in silksong given the abyss having clearly purposefully constructed stuff

[foggy fractal]

you're reading too much into it
it just refering to the haunting

[next sable]

the fleas felt more like flying 4-5 year olds, honestly

[whole juniper]

After the ant rule shit there was some conquering from conductors and other groups

[next sable]

i love them for that lol

[foggy fractal]

ALSO this game takes place after dnm or etv so the radiance is literally dead

[gray iris]

but like what about the huge one that is a dog that fly and the humans stand

[keen compass]

i think what is most interesting to me is- The world of hollow knight has seafaring bugs/kingdoms?

[kind pagoda]

What a game holy shit that was an experience and only 20 bucks

[torpid creek]

not really knowledgable in this but why is Skarrsinger Karmelita like 6 times the size in their current form compared to their prime ?

[whole juniper]

me theory is that void is all over the world and the void society also spanned the world for a while

[keen compass]

queen ant, where do you think all the ants come from

[crisp basalt]

Age

[next sable]

it could just be a very big boi. (but also, it's not a dog)

[keen axle]

More to come 🗣️

[whole juniper]

Then they tried to embrace it and failed-or not

[crisp basalt]

Her Prime was Very Long ago

[kind pagoda]

Dlc was confirmed?

[keen compass]

the void continues to be the biggest mystery

[torpid creek]

ah so it just she aged Fair enough

[gray iris]

in hk1 the pale king power make pluto bugs into goofy bugs so it makes sense that the flea species have both pluto and goody

[tawdry flare]

Some creatures shed their wings as they grow up

[whole juniper]

Yeah

[next sable]

she's also very old

[keen compass]

the void is clearly the absence of something, but where did it come from? what even is it

it clearly outranks higher beings

[foggy fractal]

its very funny how these characters don't have a bottom half because they're always behind a desk

[whole juniper]

Only bugs do that which makes sense in the bug game

[tawdry flare]

Not really, any pale being can resist it with their glow, and other higher beings are smart enough to just avoid it. Unless they’re caught by it like GMS

[keen compass]

the void i think is the only thing we can say is ABOVE higher beings

[gray iris]

i am convinced it is intentional that team cherry made fleas goofy and pluto

[whole juniper]

it certainly is more powerful than any higher being

[keen compass]

i think this is disproven with the everbloom in hornet's memories, implying the pale king must have used to it to resist the void to setup his operations in it

[next sable]

you could also say it's below higher beings and able to bring them down to its level 😏

[tawdry flare]

United/focused? Yeah, but it alone isn’t

[keen compass]

that i agree with

[next sable]

i mean, act 3 is kind of... against that

[whole juniper]

alone it still can’t even be defeated

[keen compass]

how so

[whole juniper]

it unites against things and if there’s a threat it’ll definitely unite…

[next sable]

it pretty much starts killing gms, and hornet herself says that it reaches for anything that has soul and will eventually consume them

[keen axle]

You think hornet could summon the knight?

[tawdry flare]

It was simply latching onto the soul in the silk threads and invading bugs’ bodies that way. It was just absorbing soul, that’s its nature

[keen compass]

the reason gms doesn't die immediately is because she is utilizing every last inch of her power to protect Lace, but is clearly failing slowly

[keen compass]

That as well

[next sable]

yes. the void is defeating gms and not the other way around

[keen compass]

The reason the void could control bugs in pharloom is cuz gms was still alive

[whole juniper]

Silk isn’t a threat towards the void so yeah

[next sable]

hence why i said, the void alone could absolutely kill higher beings

[keen compass]

this i agree with

[keen axle]

Also does void allow the knight to be everywhere or did it sense gms and arrived on time?

[keen compass]

just sending a higher being into the void means it outright loses

[whole juniper]

There’s nothing that is a threat towards void maybe other than the flowers maybe?

[tawdry flare]

It has the capacity to but the Higher Being has to be Very Stupid (jump in a void lake) or shoved down there (like GMS)

[keen compass]

its everywhere all at once, its apart of the void. they only came together because hornet was in danger

and the knight obviously loves his big sister

[whole juniper]

or the void unites and just kills them outright

thays not alone but still

[keen compass]

very rare for this to happen tho, the void rising up to meet its foe

[tawdry flare]

I think you are confused about the definition of the void uniting

[next sable]

The only unavoidable things in life are death, taxes, and Void lol

[whole juniper]

I just said it’s not alone

[keen compass]

can we also talk about how ever present the theme of 'love' is in both games?

and how it boths leads to good and destruction

[whole juniper]

It’s not the voids foe technically it’s the knights and the knight happens to be able to unite it somehow?

[keen compass]

the pale king loved the hollow knight, thus he no longer became hollow

gms loved lace, and was willing to sacrifice the world for her

[keen axle]

They were never hollow

[next sable]

I think it was the other way around, but yes, still correct

[tawdry flare]

liek some king of… Voidheart

[whole juniper]

The pale king loving the hk wouldn’t affect if it was pure, only if the hk loved the king which it did

[keen compass]

it was definitely mutual love

[steady prawn]

what was the deal herra made

[keen compass]

they were once hollow and became not hollow after the pale king instilled love in it on accident

[whole juniper]

Sex for a seal

[next sable]

Get kid, spend time with kid, then sleep.

[tawdry flare]

None of the vessels were hollow

[keen compass]

pale king gives herra a child of high birth, in exchange herra becomes seal

[tawdry flare]

Are we doing ts again

[whole juniper]

the knight seemed pretty hollow…

[keen compass]

the knight is def not hollow

[steady prawn]

but they all bugs 🐜 no seal 🦭

[whole juniper]

why

[keen compass]

cuz they clearly have emotions and care

[next sable]

Does red memory not say she also wanted to spend time with her kid, implying that she really just wanted a daughter and used the heir thing as a diplomatic excuse?

[keen compass]

this is more evident by act 3's ending

[whole juniper]

how do you see emotion in the knight

[keen compass]

unsure

[next sable]

Winged Nosk

[keen compass]

it literally uniting the void JUST to save hornet for one

uniting the void temporarily is like- not a small feat in the slightest

[whole juniper]

or because she saved it back in hallownest?

[keen compass]

the knight uniting the void temporarily JUST to save hornet is a sign of something more

[keen compass]

returning a favor implies emooootion/care

[neat sandal]

doubt it is ocean. it just have plenty water.
and those bug can fly so look like they swim
like this bug

[next sable]

Winged Nosk journal entry basically states that TK cared about/loved Hornet

[whole juniper]

returning a favor implies duty

[keen compass]

i mean the coral tower was completely submerged

[whole juniper]

Is there a boss after both gauntlets

[keen axle]

I don't think any of the vessels would do so either

[whole juniper]

Show

[keen axle]

Yes

[whole juniper]

ohhh

[dapper abyss]

Is this the knight or the hollow knight?

[keen compass]

the knight

[whole juniper]

it disguises as someone you love

[keen axle]

Knight

He became the shade lord

[keen compass]

the hollow knight

[whole juniper]

The shades adhere to the shape of the vessels

[fathom stirrup]

is this a safe space for people on team vornet?

[keen compass]

the heck is vornet

[whole juniper]

what does that mean.

[graceful wigeon]

?

[silk dirge]

why do people ask this have you never seen the dream no more ending 😭

[keen axle]

Why is he aura farming

[fathom stirrup]

new gens

[keen compass]

newgen as just said

[fathom stirrup]

i wasnt talking about that

[next sable]

Winged Nosk takes Hornet’s shape

[neat sandal]

not really. It look like it submerged
but you can see it have waterfall here
so it can't be submerged

[keen compass]

oh ik, was just referencing it

[next sable]

It’s on Youtube

[graceful wigeon]

I have no idea what it means.

[keen compass]

OH good point

[dapper abyss]

i have
just wanted to be sure
bc this technically makes it so there IS a cannon ending to hollow knight

[silk dirge]

also why would thk help hornet when its only experience with her is getting attacked

[keen compass]

so maybe just lots of water then at one point

[whole juniper]

yeah or that just means hornets the next best thing

[fathom stirrup]

its possible for there to be waterfalls underwater im p sure

[keen compass]

did you not play hollow knight

[fathom stirrup]

not like actual waterfalls but illusions that look like them

[keen axle]

Fr

[silk dirge]

i did lol

[whole juniper]

They never helped each other

[keen compass]

then the question answers itself

[silk dirge]

why would thk help hornet its only interactions with her are bad

[fathom stirrup]

because they got literally no emotions or thoughts

[keen axle]

She helps him in like 2 of the endings

[next sable]

In the deepest darkness, there are beasts who wear faces stolen from your memories and pluck at the strings in your heart. Know yourself, and stay strong.

[keen compass]

thats untrue lol

Also i am pretty sure the knight knows hornet wasnt attacking it out of malicious intent

[next sable]

“Pluck at the strings of your heart” is pretty damning

[graceful wigeon]

One of the big twists is that Void beings may not be made of Soul or seemingly have emotion the standard way, they still are alive and absolutely feel. Meaning that the Hollow Knight plan was never gonna work. Period. Hence why destroying the Radiance (either her avatar in the Hollow Knight or the real thing at Godhome) is necessary.

[whole juniper]

wait does thk actually help hornet with something

[keen axle]

Hornet also saves the knight after he takes the kings brand or smth

[keen compass]

they help each other in DNM and throughout the game in ways

[keen compass]

^

[prisma quail]

What if

[blissful harbor]

wym her avatar in HK, that’s her still
both are her

[keen compass]

They're also siblings and do love each other

[silk dirge]

i think good supporting evidence for this might be that hornet tells lace she has seen others make the same mistake thinking something that was life wasnt

[edgy barn]

They are talking about the Hollow Knight/Pure Vessel, not the Knight

[silk dirge]

that being said lace definitely is more alive than the vessels

[prisma quail]

They intentionally made the lore vague and scattered as a big treat to lore enjoyers since it’s so grand with much to figure out

[keen compass]

ohhhhh then im confused wut they're asking

[whole juniper]

according to hornet no they’re just a fragile life

[gaunt marsh]

Apparently hornet has a very big life span, and has had ... "it "with other bugs.. so if she did before or after og hk the pale king is way longer dead than we thought or if its after hallownest was rebuilt

[next sable]

Lace is anything but fragile

[keen compass]

THK helping hornet is simple- THK knows Hornet is an awesome sibling and grew up alongside her

[keen axle]

isn't lace made from silk

[whole juniper]

did you read laces Hunter journal entry

[keen compass]

They were probably close in some regard

[whole juniper]

hornet literally calls her life fragile but still life

[next sable]

She takes forever to kill and is able to survive the void completely coating her. I think she’s pretty tough as it is

[dense roost]

I love that this channel exists
that cutscene on SotV ending was awesome

I wonder if within the void are there multiple factions since Knight protected both of them by attacking the void lashes

[keen axle]

Vessels are made from eggs soaked in void

[whole juniper]

life doesn’t mean how tough you are and you just completely ignored what i said

[next sable]

Then what defines fragile then

[whole juniper]

the fact her life is given to her by silk i asssume

[gaunt marsh]

Anyone knows which one is more correct theory

[next sable]

Why does that make her any more fragile than any other bug then?

[silk dirge]

yeah if silk runs out lace dies which is why the whole weaver hunt happened

[keen compass]

nah, its just that the void is 99% of the time in a state of dissaray and lacking consciousness, just a thing that wants to consume, wants to turn off the light, etc.
When TK steps in, it stops the void's attack and unites it to save hornet

[next sable]

I think SOTV shows Hornet binding GMS to Lace

So that’s not really a huge issue

[silk dirge]

its also why gms binds herself to lace

[keen compass]

it'd be both

[neat sandal]

bug have shell
while silk, you know silk

[silk dirge]

yeah but if she wasnt in that situation she wouldnt do that

gms wasnt going to just give her life to lace if she wasnt literally about to get killed by void

[whole juniper]

ask Hornet that not me

you can’t deny the games text

[next sable]

Silk in this game is weird though. It’s a soul conduit and can be formed into weapons

[whole juniper]

not all silk is a soul conduit

[keen compass]

a better way to phrase this i think is that hornet and lace are both fragile, but they're so skilled and fast and strong that their fragility isn't that big of a deal

[neat sandal]

still not armors

[whole juniper]

Horner isn’t fragile though

[keen compass]

she is

[silk dirge]

hornet is not made of silk

[keen compass]

its why everything in silksong does double dmg, thats the lore explanation

[whole juniper]

what

[silk dirge]

lmao

[whole juniper]

😭

[silk dirge]

true

[keen compass]

TK is a lot tankier lol

Hornet isn't

[pure zodiac]

everyone is just way more pissed in pharloom so they hit harder

[silk dirge]

i think a better explanation would be bc pharloom sucks ass everyone there is more angry

[whole juniper]

that’s just gameplay to make things harder

[pure zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/dirty-docks-shawty-triflin-shawty-triflin-she-gif-22455514

[neat sandal]

just because void is tanky
does not mean hornet is fragile

[silk dirge]

also if hornet is more fragile why can she get 10 masks while the knight only 9

[keen axle]

Everyone in pharloom knows how to parry 😭

[keen compass]

i mean, hornet did get washed by the knight multiple times lol

[pure zodiac]

because that's a completely independant factor to anything else lol

[whole juniper]

before the events of pharloom to be fair

prime Hornet washes knight (not shade forms)

[blissful harbor]

the toughness of her shell is a big point of the cursed quest line???
it’s the whole reason she needs to find special spines

[keen compass]

hornet is weaker in pharloom

[whole juniper]

and then she gets stronger

such as getting a pale steel nail…

[keen compass]

her shell is tough, but she is still weaker than the knight in toughness

[pure zodiac]

she washes the shade i'll die on this hill

[next sable]

She just finds more of them

[silk dirge]

nah knight has ddark

[blissful harbor]

well yes TK is just built different

[whole juniper]

hornet drill

[silk dirge]

hornet insta loses bc she cant ddark

[keen compass]

aso there is no 'prime' hornet, hornet IS in her prime lol

[silk dirge]

the drill is nowhere near ddark in how broken it is lol

[whole juniper]

100% completed SILKSONG is prime hornet

[next sable]

Hornet can make your life a bullet hell and you can’t even touch her. She absolutely wipes the floor with TK at her prime

[whole juniper]

Why did that go caps

[keen compass]

just you wait till my hornet whips out the beam cannon and just no scopes the knight from off screen

[pure zodiac]

okay but consider the following

she just dashes away

[keen compass]

wdym 'her prime'

[whole juniper]

100% game percentage

[keen compass]

she's in her prime through HK then in her prime at 100% game percentage in pharloom

[blissful harbor]

she doesn’t sadly, if TK is also in their prime
which like, assuming it’s a fair fight
TK dog walks her

[whole juniper]

she is Not In her prime during hk

[next sable]

Not without tools, Pale Nails, crests, etc.

[whole juniper]

If she’s stronger in pharloom which she is her prime is in pharloom

[keen compass]

we could say the same for TK?

[silk dirge]

ok yeah hornet would wipe out tk with shaman crest

[keen axle]

What freed hornet at the start of the game

[whole juniper]

prime knight loses to prime hornet (not prime as in shade lord)

[next sable]

I know. Hornet ay her prime beats TK at his prime

[keen compass]

her pissed off attitude

[blissful harbor]

lace probably

[keen compass]

nah, TK beats Hornet

[pure zodiac]

a random butterfly

[blissful harbor]

does it have vh? if not then i’d agree

[whole juniper]

tk is WAY slower, less damage options

[pure zodiac]

❌

[keen compass]

TK had the makings to become an outright god, Hornet is just a demigod

[next sable]

Hornet can literally random bullshit go with her tools and TK can’t even reach her without triggering a bunch of traps

[keen axle]

Which version of tk

[whole juniper]

Void heart? Doesn’t affect anything because counting shade lord just isn’t fair

[whole juniper]

Horner also can become a god

[next sable]

If we count shade lord, we may as well count Hornet binding GMS

[keen compass]

clearly not

[blissful harbor]

TK has the means to go intangible

[whole juniper]

Shade lord washes Horner as gms bonded

[pure zodiac]

something tells me you didn't beat the game cuz she literally becomes grand mother silk at the end

[keen axle]

Wdym she literally becomes one

[keen compass]

? i beat act 3, wdym lol

[whole juniper]

she literally binds with a pale being that doesn’t make her a god???

[next sable]

Actually, fair enough lol

[pure zodiac]

so you know she can indeed become a god

[keen axle]

Did you do the first ending

[neat sandal]

quick slash, mark of pride, unbreakable strenght.
that whole kit is stronger than anything hornet can do.
maybe not architect tools spam

[keen compass]

actually no lol i tried to but got a weird tree branch ending instead

[silk dirge]

oh you got cursed ending lmao

is that cursed ending actually wait

[keen compass]

i have no fuckin clue what the tree ending is about

[pure zodiac]

okay but the shade lord is probably THE most god of all gods

[whole juniper]

imagine four flying drones that can deal your health bar three times over and can also poison your health bar three times over

[keen compass]

everything turns to stone? wood?

[silk dirge]

i never did cursed ending i need to roll back a backup of my save to get it

[next sable]

That’s the curse ending, which is not the default ending

[pure zodiac]

did you miss that time you got infected with a tree baby

[edgy barn]

The parasite consumes both Hornet and GMS, and I suppose a new creature emerges from that

[pure zodiac]

well that tree baby ate you up

[keen compass]

i got infected with the tree baby, and actually couldnt figureo ut how to get it off for a while lol

my play time is 76 hrs for a reason

[whole juniper]

In the first ending, hornet binds with gms and at the final scene you can see hornet has become just like gms

Tree ending is Tre

[keen compass]

fair enuff

[whole juniper]

That form of horner still gets washed by shade lord though

[keen compass]

that is true

[blissful harbor]

sl wipes anything

besides a flower

[keen compass]

the lord of the void is above any higher being clearly

[whole juniper]

If you are a flower you auto win

[keen compass]

the flower is still a mystery

[pure zodiac]

the shade lord is debatably not even TK anymore at that point

[keen compass]

the everbloom clearly comes from something above a higher being

[whole juniper]

What if the pale kind had sex with a flower

[neat sandal]

technically knight is pure void and have Isma's Tear so he should be immune to poison

[blissful harbor]

WL calls it the first light or whatever
idk some light HB nonsense

[whole juniper]

no not poison. Just acid.

[next sable]

Do we know if the everbloom decaying is because of the void or because it’s from a memory and it naturally expires?

[keen compass]

nah it def still is, given it comes to save his sister

[pure zodiac]

as you can see by that screenshot, that is NOT the shade lord

[keen compass]

i'd guess the void given we've seen that the petals are slowly infected by void, and it can only do so much

[whole juniper]

The knight simply can unite the void under its will to do something

[next sable]

The shade lord appears directly after this screen shot

[keen compass]

it flashes in between

[silk dirge]

that is a big up to interpretation team cherry did to make both dnm and etv canon

[pure zodiac]

what i think happened there is that hornet saw for a moment the potential of the void, but he doesn't make a direct appearence

[keen compass]

HE LITERALLY DOES WUT LOL

[next sable]

That’s why it’s ambiguous which ending HK happened

We don’t know if it’s a hallucination or ehatever

[pure zodiac]

he's not physically there bro that's clearly not him physically there

[empty sierra]

yeah they def did that so both endings would be plausible

[silk dirge]

yeah

[keen compass]

he clearly is what

[whole juniper]

I can see hornet in the game but she’s clearly not physically there

[keen compass]

the united void is the lord of the void

[silk dirge]

thank god they made sealed siblings not canon tho that explanation people came up with was stupid as fuck

[pure zodiac]

so what he just showed up physically for 2 frames before un-fusing????

[edgy barn]

What explanation?

[keen compass]

no, he IS the void

[pure zodiac]

the void was not uinited there bro the knight fought other void tendrils to save hornet

[keen compass]

Whenever the void is united as a front, the lord of the void comes into being

[next sable]

Let’s be honest though, the Citadel definitely would have found a way to break her free. Just not sure how they’d wake her

[whole juniper]

what

[silk dirge]

that sealed siblings could lead into silksong bc the bug that broke the seal on hornets cage could break the black egg seal

[pure zodiac]

fym what, the void was attacking hornet and the knight cluthced in to save her

[keen compass]

the knight didnt fight them, it halted their advance and united the void. its why the void stops attacking hornet and doesnt attack thereafter

[edgy barn]

Oh lol I remember now

[silk dirge]

like sure it could but that is not the intended idea of the ending and it feels very shoehorned in

[keen compass]

if the void wasnt united, it would have kept attacking but it didnt

[whole juniper]

the knight saved her by making the void stop because it can unite the void

[keen compass]

we also see that its united because of this shot specifically

which is a callback to the ETV ending

followed by the flash of the lord of the void

[obsidian quail]

it never ends

[empty sierra]

more things point towards ETV but dream no more is also possible

[pure zodiac]

the pale king kids might be united but i don't buy that the shade lord itself showed up physically for two frames and then just left

[keen compass]

it didnt leave

its there, it IS the void

[next sable]

Technically, TK is the Shade Lord

[whole juniper]

I think any scenario the knight has the void heart is possible other than sealed sibling

[next sable]

Well, also the normal ending, but that’s just sealed siblings minus Hornet anyways

[keen compass]

the lord of the void IS the void itself

think of the void like a massive body made up of thousands of bodies

[whole juniper]

Normal ending not possible cause the knights shade is in pharloom

[pure zodiac]

in that case we also see the shade lord all throughout hollow knight whenever we enter the abyss

[next sable]

Oh, I meant it wasn’t possible like Sealed Siblings lol

[empty sierra]

sealed siblings headcanon is that pablo came back and unsealed them both

so it can work 🔥

[whole juniper]

Ohh

[keen compass]

the void is the lord of the void, just when its consciousness isn't there

[whole juniper]

Oh shoot I forgot about Pablo

[silk dirge]

🦭

[keen compass]

when given united front, when given consciousness- such as by the lord of shades TK, it becomes the lord of the void

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-23741516

[pure zodiac]

so why does it un-unite half a second after

[whole juniper]

it’s when one of those little bodies merges with the other ones and becomes BIG

[keen compass]

it doesn't

[pure zodiac]

he shows up and then we cut back to the siblings

[keen compass]

it always is and isn't

[neat sandal]

why TC have say all ending is canon
just choose one
what could go wrong with that?

[whole juniper]

Doesn’t apply anymore

[keen compass]

they did choose two, ETV and DNM

like silksong clearly proves they changed their mind lol

[silk dirge]

they chose the best endings to make canon

[keen compass]

dream no more was always implied to be the 'true ending'

[pure zodiac]

they chose the only possible endings to make canon lmao

[next sable]

But also, they probably don’t want to write themselves into a corner

[silk dirge]

like i was saying no shit they might change something they said before godmaster iirc

[keen compass]

they made that statement almost a decade ago, they're also 3 guys

so like- yea, obv they'd change their mind lol

tho they also didnt really change their minds

all endings are still canon if you look at it in a drakengard/nier kind of way

[tawdry flare]

Why would it not be able to take place after THK & Sealed Siblings?

[keen compass]

each ending just branches into their own things

[silk dirge]

i mean thk ending could work sealed siblings could work with that explanation but like come on did anyone actually think team cherry would make that explanation canon

[pure zodiac]

because hornet dies in sealed siblings lmao

[whole juniper]

Sealed siblings is obvious

[tawdry flare]

Dreamers don’t die geniuses

[next sable]

The Shade is still imprisoned in the Egg

[keen compass]

hornet doesn't die in sealed siblings, what

[pure zodiac]

she literally says "i will die if i stay in there for too long"

[tawdry flare]

She does not say that

[keen compass]

where?......

[silk dirge]

she days the bindings will drain her

[whole juniper]

Thk is bc the knights shade is in Pharloom meaning the radiance is no longer contained so Horner couldn’t escape that p much

[silk dirge]

so it's a logical conclusion

[whole juniper]

yes she does

[keen axle]

Any ending but the sealed sibling is possible

[random harbor]

Hornet - General - Black Egg Temple Opened

The path is opened. One way or another an end awaits inside.
I won't be joining you in this. That space is built to sustain your likes. Its bindings would drain me were I to join.
Don't be surprised. I'll not risk my own life in your attempt, though if the moment presents I'll aid as I'm able.

@zippius used /npcs wanderers name: Hornet category: General dialogue: Black Egg Temple Opened

[keen compass]

either way we know sealed siblings never happened

[whole juniper]

Thk isn’t

[tawdry flare]

This does not mean she’ll die it just means she doesn’t know if she’ll survive

[pure zodiac]

it's very implied

[whole juniper]

There’s no way for the knights shade to be in pharloom and for the radiance to be contained by the knight at the same time

[keen compass]

but its a nier/drakengard situation
DNM and ETV go to Silksong
The other endings go to different games

[pure zodiac]

not first one

[whole juniper]

its a timeline

[silk dirge]

squirrel quirrel

[next sable]

Or they might just ignore the other two endings entirely, who knows

[silk dirge]

probably

[keen compass]

i mean, i'd love a sequel to silksong with lace as our next playable protagonist

[empty sierra]

what if you end silksong in act 2

[tawdry flare]

That’s not what we were talking about

[empty sierra]

then tk isnt confirmed in pharloom

[keen compass]

i like if the trend for our protags are: That character you bond with and duel and get the true ending alongside

[timber pond]

i THink its Just ETV until i see where the hell The Hollow Knights shade went, because if hes not a shade it cant be DNM if every shade shows up in silksongs ending

[whole juniper]

Still applies cause the shade was able to come at a moments notice to save her

[keen compass]

TK is still in pharloom no matter what

[pure zodiac]

another reason i don't think the shade lord came to be at all is because the hollow knight straight up wakes up and leaves alive in the pantheon ending and encounters hornet and she makes a total of 0 mentions to that at all throughout the entire game

[tawdry flare]

The shades aren’t even actually there in SotV it’s literally JUST The Knight

[whole juniper]

Someone said the only impossible one is sealed siblings so i talked about why thk isn’t

[timber pond]

They are all in the background?

[keen compass]

ETV, what, TK doesnt wake up lol

[empty sierra]

well canon isnt written since theres multiple different choices throughout the game, the only thing silksong 100% requires to be canon is that hornets alive and well in the beginning, anything that happens after depends on you same as in HK, you write the story

[pure zodiac]

i don't know what etv is

[tawdry flare]

Then the Shade Lord appears, then both the Shade Lord and the Siblings vanish. It’s supposed to indicate that Hornet is hallucinating parts of it and imply that both endings are canon

[keen compass]

enter the void

[pure zodiac]

also i said THE hollow knight wakes up and leaves

[whole juniper]

there are still circumstances that wouldn’t change between act 2 and 3

[keen compass]

i dont think any of it is a halluncination

[timber pond]

But either way, even if it is a hallucination, The hollow knights shade is absent in teh Dream No more interpretation.

[pure zodiac]

no just the shade lord lol

[keen compass]

it definitely isnt

[tawdry flare]

Why do we need to see them?? They’re the one shade that would finally want to be at permanent rest

[keen compass]

the void is the lord of the void's body

[pure zodiac]

i really do not agree because he's on screen for a single flash

[meager drum]

why cant hornet be haunted?

[keen compass]

being a demigod is a hell of a drug

[whole juniper]

she’s a weaver

[meager drum]

thats the only reason?

[whole juniper]

The silkers can’t be silked i assume

[timber pond]

Want does not equal can be. Wouldnt all the shades want to be at rest?

[tawdry flare]

She has her own silk, so other’s silk can’t influence her

[keen compass]

also to be haunted you need to give up

[pure zodiac]

i always had the thought that the hollow knight died with the radiance

[keen compass]

Sherma for example cant be haunted cuz his? her? will is too strong

[whole juniper]

So basically the same as radiance

[tawdry flare]

It might be his song tbh

[keen compass]

its both most likely given others arent haunted either

[timber pond]

if all the other shades still exist after that, what makes him different besides being bigger

[keen compass]

haunting is implied to take hold when you want to give up

[pure zodiac]

the fact that he had the radiance inside him lmao

[edgy barn]

I won't stand for this gormand slander

[tawdry flare]

The shades Are Not There

[keen compass]

to surrender yourself over to no longer feeling pain

[whole juniper]

Does the haunting make anyone stronger?

[keen compass]

it doesn't look like it

[pure zodiac]

what he asked is that every shade beside the hollow knight survived

[twin musk]

Yoooo the first sinner part was hype af

The cutscene too

[keen compass]

haunting just takes control of you, like well- a haunting

[whole juniper]

The void haunting does make you stronger

[keen compass]

the radiance's infection was way more cracked because it straight up was steroids + control

[pure zodiac]

not entirely cuz it brings dead bugs to life

[timber pond]

We see no evidence of a corpse in dream no more

[keen compass]

huh when

[timber pond]

meaning he went back to the void

[whole juniper]

Not direct control completely

[pure zodiac]

when the dead bugs spring to life ingame lol

[keen compass]

wheeeere

[keen compass]

they aren't dead, i just always saw them as in stasis lol

[pure zodiac]

bugs tank hits like motherfuckers

[edgy barn]

And deal double damage if they already didn't

[whole juniper]

uh throughout all of act three you see the void haunting people and making them have more hp

[keen compass]

thats the void's version

the void does have juicing properties

[whole juniper]

They probably are in stasis because they didn’t get silk

[keen compass]

the haunting on its own does not

[whole juniper]

Hence why I said the void haunting

[keen compass]

oh i missed that, sorry

[jolly moon]

anyone know without spoilers if this is a sequel or prequel

[whole juniper]

That’s Alr

[keen compass]

sequel

[pure zodiac]

but you probably destroy the entire mind of the hollow knight-where radiance was kept, so you basically (maybe) killed both with one stone

[empty sierra]

sequel but explaination needs spoilers

[jolly moon]

oh boy.

[whole juniper]

Why the hell doesn’t the pk dump the hk onto the void sea after it contained the infection

[jolly moon]

gonna be interesting

[pure zodiac]

worst place to ask that but sequel

[empty sierra]

yaa get outta here theres spoilers

come back when you reach the climax

[keen compass]

me omw to post the screenshot again

[pure zodiac]

what would that do

[whole juniper]

Destroy the infection

[keen compass]

clearly wouldnt work

[edgy barn]

Where is it implied that you destroy HK's entire mind?

[keen compass]

GMS proves why

it'd most likely turn the infection into a void infection

[tawdry flare]

The Radiance needed to be killed within the Dream Realm, THK is an access point to her but the Void can’t get in there on its own

[keen compass]

and uh, i dont think anyone wants that

[whole juniper]

It’ll end up killing her after a while it was just because she was holding on

[whole juniper]

I never said the radiance would be killed

[pure zodiac]

i said it was my headcanon, you enter the HK mind to destroy radiance, that's why in the pantheon the hollow knight doens't die, because you're fighting her directly, independant of the hollow knight (from my pov)

[tawdry flare]

Why would that destroy the infection

[keen compass]

yea but in that while you get void infestations, and the infestation would just re manifest anyways in others

as long as the radiance is around there would be infection

[tawdry flare]

If you destroy the infection on THK then she’s free again

[whole juniper]

Would you rather have a permanent orange infection or a temporary void infection 🤔

[keen compass]

its permanent either way

[pure zodiac]

temporary void like what

[edgy barn]

Radiance wouldn't be killed

[keen compass]

it'd just cease being void after a bit and go back to being reg. ol infection

[whole juniper]

it would last as long as the radiance would be in the void

[keen compass]

cuz the radiance is in the dream realm

[edgy barn]

She's not physical unlike GMS

[tawdry flare]

Not how that works

[keen compass]

she isnt in the physical world

[whole juniper]

yea

[keen compass]

you cant put the intangible in the void

[whole juniper]

but void still can go into dreams

[edgy barn]

Yes

[keen compass]

yes

[pure zodiac]

yes

[edgy barn]

But you have to bring it there

[tawdry flare]

Only with the assistance of a mind, which it does not have

[keen compass]

but it has to be united/summoned

[keen compass]

^

chucking THK in there would just let it maybe make void infections for a short bit then back to normal

[whole juniper]

so why couldn’t someone use a dream nail on them

[empty sierra]

why tf couldnt the hollow kngiht defeat it in its own dream

[sinful nimbus]

No void heart

[keen compass]

too weak

[sinful nimbus]

Not as skilled as The Knight either

[whole juniper]

Ahh

[edgy barn]

Not strong enough + No voidheart

[empty sierra]

isnt void heart gotten from just remembering your childhood?

[sinful nimbus]

With Kingsoul yes

[whole juniper]

cause that wasn’t its goal. Pure vessel would probably kill radiance ngl

[empty sierra]

actually HOW does that even work

oh yeah kingsoul