sk-lore

[limpid wedge]

Didn’t hornet literally say in an entry she’s given up on finding a partner because she outlives all of them?

[naive crag]

i ship vespa X herrah now too

[sinful nimbus]

Ever since Caretaker and Church Maid turned out to be siblings and therefore unshippable I've given up on shipping 😔

[blissful canyon]

does anyone know the fate of the guy that was sitting near this bench in bone bottom...?

[arctic mountain]

Pale king x sawblades clears every ship

[sinful nimbus]

Absolutely terrible luck tbh

[fading whale]

good ending

[maiden meteor]

I mean tbf it could as well be that Shamans just call each other siblings for funsies

[sacred heath]

“I’m not your master dipshit”
“ok massster”

[blissful canyon]

just tell me

[naive crag]

out of everyone you decide to ship those two unknowingly

[fading whale]

on later dialogues she seems kinda into it

[limpid wedge]

Huh, that’s a good point. I do think they could have made it more clear that Mother Silk’s presence in the void was making it behave differently though

[gloomy path]

he got run over by bone tyrant

[sinful nimbus]

The basis was that they had similar outfits

[naive crag]

i love stynx he needs more love ❤️

[fading whale]

he goes to pilgrim's rest, you saved his life by not visiting him enough good job

[sacred heath]

wait you can save him??

[blissful canyon]

and what happens if I visit him often

[maiden meteor]

Stynx is awesome

[whole hawk]

By the way did they retcon Herrah to be a weaver? Was she ever a weaver? Did she want a child with the Pale King because, like all weavers, she was infertile then? Is that the implication?

[sacred heath]

fuck I gotta replay my save

[obsidian quail]

my take is we can make the events in SS act 3 with the Void up until TK attacking itself work, however once TK directs its attention to what’s happening in the Void, it should listen cuz it IS the Void

[fading whale]

btw after pilgrim's rest does he go anywhere else? he died in my playthrough as i was blind playing and didnt know

[maiden meteor]

hard working to provide to his master

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[fading whale]

eventually if you sit on the bench and he's there a skull tyrant comes and runs him over

[limpid wedge]

I was talking about this earlier but yeah it seems that way.

[whole hawk]

Interesting.

[spark valve]

That’s the implication now

[whole hawk]

I guess it makes sense at least.

[limpid wedge]

Herra made a bargain with the pale king not because she wanted a powerful daughter but just because she wanted a daughter

[sinful nimbus]

I always thought she wanted a kid with PK because her husband was dead but this is way funnier

[foggy fractal]

truth nuke !

[obsidian quail]

common beast -> super ancient Weaver

[blissful canyon]

bro 😭

[obsidian quail]

Herrah on the come up

[blissful canyon]

im glad I didnt care about him but I actually did

[whole hawk]

Pale Stud seed coming through.

[blissful harbor]

i mean like technically

if you squint really hard and do a handstand

[whole hawk]

And yet Silksong STILL didn't explain what the trilobite was.

[blissful harbor]

pharlids are common beasts

[limpid wedge]

Pale Spyrm

[arctic mountain]

Pk got real potent magic

[obsidian quail]

that is my issue but it’s fine

[fading whale]

alright, and i do understand that perspective however there is also the perspective of the knight being the void's master not the void itself. ALSO, you might consider how he might have instructed the void ''kill grand mother silk'' and since lace is literally her daughter and made directly and exclusively from her silk, how that might have caused the void to aggro on it too and he needed to control himself. even if it is literally himself

[sacred heath]

my biggest problem with Herrah being a weaver is that
she doesn’t really. look like one yknow

[spark valve]

Herrah weaver retcon serves the narrative by making her a counterpart to gms with the whole desperately wanting a child thing and lets hornet empathize with lace a bit

[maiden meteor]

I don’t really think Knight would command void to kill GMS

[limpid wedge]

It’s a bit more buyable considering Widow can exist without her mask

[maiden meteor]

Like it’s just void’s default instinct to consume light

[blissful harbor]

she got fat during sleep

[winter iris]

I think the reason The Knight attacked the void, it was for dramatic impact.

[blissful harbor]

widow still looks like a weaver

[limpid wedge]

Imagine that but thicc

[sacred heath]

“the knight did that because they were bored” ass explanation

[limpid wedge]

Yeah I agree that it’s a stretch

[maiden meteor]

And Knight being basically the entirety of void would be way too op really

[sinful nimbus]

tbf common beast just refers to the fact that she's not royalty

[spark valve]

This is in character actually

[fading whale]

i dont know, i really dont see the problem with the night attacking it. even if he is one with it, it is the void's overwhelming desire and nature to do what it was doing, and since the knight still exists as a will and an entity it is still HIS WILL to resist that from happening and controlling himself

[tender ocean]

i think their default instinct is too consume, period. Does not matter much what it consumes

[limpid wedge]

Way too OP for what exactly

[sinful nimbus]

That tablet is contrasting her with her late royal husband

[sacred heath]

i know it’s just funny to me

[fading whale]

literally like that trope where a possessed by hunger or rage person hold himself back to not hurt people they love

[whole hawk]

I really dont think Void Heart ever implied total complete control over the entirety of the void.

[winter iris]

Team Cherry did the void tendril scene surely cause the knight saving Hornet that way is more impactful than the void suddenly just stopping the attack.

[whole hawk]

Like not even higher beings are that powerful.

[fading whale]

even if it did that doesnt mean the control is effortless and completely overrides the nature of the thing that you are

[limpid wedge]

I think we can all agree on that, the question is whether or not that was worth the sacrifice to the story

And so we’re talking about how much of a sacrifice to the story that actually is

[maiden meteor]

A lot of Hollow Knight plot and especially Silksong revolves around fact that gods can fall, if knight was totality of all of the void across entire world it would make it essentially x1000 more powerful than any Higher Being to date

[fading whale]

i personally dont see a sacrifice here, you guys are just too adamant that you know exactly how the void was supossed to work when there isnt enough info in the original game

[sinful nimbus]

There is good thematic reason for the void being super strong and infallible, its representative of the end and laying the kingdom to rest

[whole hawk]

Also the void tendril scene was fanservice because its supposed to emulate the part where we hit the radiance.

[spark valve]

I mean yeah that’s not really contradictory given that void’s the embodiment of nothingness in the context of a game with the message that nothing lasts forever

[whole hawk]

Like a "wait a minute... that seems familiar" sort of tjing before the big reveal.

[limpid wedge]

Which some would say is exactly what made the ending so compelling. The knight embodies a void and becomes a being that even gods pale (pun) in comparison to

[spark valve]

On a thematic sense it made plenty of sense for the lord of shades to be exceptional

[maiden meteor]

Yeah but knight itself is essentially a god. It is not nothing, never was.

[steep zephyr]

I think it means the Void recognizes you as it's ruler or leader. Not necessarily in full, conscious control. What we see in the Void Sister ending is akin to soldiers targeting the King's sister and the King shows up and goes "do you have any fucking idea who you're harassing?" and puts a stop to it

[fading whale]

by that logical why do the void masses attack hornet? hell, why the fuck doesnt the knight just go up as a single stream of void all stealthlike and kill gms himself? why does he possess and harm other bugs at all?

[obsidian quail]

i’m okay with the Void having its own nature which it is now implied to have, and TK not having omniscient awareness of everything in the Void 24/7, but when TK is aware or wherever it is in the Void, the Void literally should do its bidding cuz that’s what Voidheart does

[sinful nimbus]

The first sentence is indeed a retcon, the second one is just meh writing, the last sentence is because of GMS

[maiden meteor]

Knight could just not care at all until it sensed Hornet inside

[sinful nimbus]

Void is consuming and mimicking GMS's threads

[fading whale]

think of it this way: you can be ravenous and hungry and salivating at the mouth with a burger on a table infront of you but you can choose to resist and not eat. the tendrils lashing at lace is the salivation here, the knight smacking them is him resisting and controlling himself

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think void attacked exclusively Lace

[sinful nimbus]

But you wouldn't punch your hand to stop eating the burger

[fading whale]

why mimic? why not just eat them up and leave the bugs alone? why not go up on his own and eat bugs earlier?

[winter iris]

The void instinctively attacks anything.

[blissful harbor]

this is the best explanation imo, most of the stuff we see happening in pharloom is void on autopilot, TK is just late to the party shutting everything down

[winter iris]

I found the ending heartwarming

[maiden meteor]

iirc tendrils also attack Hornet when she goes down, Everbloom just protects her

[limpid wedge]

It’s not really an understanding thing and more of a narrative thing. “The knight embodies the darkness of its creation to pull a god down into oblivion” is such a strong narrative, and “oh yeah and also there’s some more darkness out here that’s still doing it’s own thing” undercuts that a little bit

[steep zephyr]

The other matter is that so much about the Void's nature is unexplained that there isn't really much to retcon. Further exploration of something we know nothing about can hardly be called a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

Like I said, meh writing

[fading whale]

yeah cause thats how humans work, but the knight and the void arent human, to me the tendrils seem like an involutary thing, a reflex

[sinful nimbus]

Apparently TK didnt notice or didn't care or something stupid like that

[obsidian quail]

yeah i’m okay with the Void on autopilot since it’s implied to have an inherent nature, wasn’t really shown in HK but that’s fine, but when TK is aware it should absolutely bend to his will, no hitting itself that’s ridiculous

[limpid wedge]

Yeah the question is whether or not the void even having an autopilot post the knight’s ascension is satisfying or not

[sinful nimbus]

Well those reflexes apparently never kicked in around Hornet in HK

[fading whale]

i dont think it's doing its own thing, i think it's reflexively doing the thing it was always doing and the knights fighting back of it is the same thing as him controlling those urges

[spark valve]

It really just doesn’t matter

[maiden meteor]

Again, I do not think Knight embodies darkness or nothingness to full extent. It still has soul, mind and will.

[fading whale]

have you seen parasyte the maxim?

[whole hawk]

Again. The Knight never embodied the entirety of the void

[maiden meteor]

Even Godhome ending implies Knight isn’t totality of void

[sinful nimbus]

Also if its an involuntary reflex to like soul or whatever I'm curious why it doesn't kick in around LOS

[obsidian quail]

i wonder why they decided no male Weavers

[maiden meteor]

cause we see Hollow Knight clearly doing its own thing

[obsidian quail]

a sisterhood kinda thing

[sinful nimbus]

No

[sinful nimbus]

There is no war in ba sing se

[limpid wedge]

Tammo mentioned earlier how the knight’s control doesn’t extend to void being actively used for stuff like the kingsmoulds, I think the implications may be that infesting the silk has a similar effect. I just wish that was more explicitly shown.

[winter iris]

Bro, you are in a spoiler heavy channel

[sinful nimbus]

Kingsmoulds are technically precedent for external factors taking control of the void but frankly with the mechanisms of Void Heart those should've been considered gameplay

[limpid wedge]

It seems like it’s just part of Mother Silk’s obsession with having a daughter specifically

[winter iris]

Better go to #sk-help

[maiden meteor]

I think in Act 3 GMS isn’t as much influencing void as helping it spread through her threads

[steep zephyr]

I always thought that too. The Knight might be hollowed by the wastelands beyond Hallownest, but it absolutely has an agenda and will of it's own. In the Hollow Knight and Sealed Siblings endings, it probably couldn't hold the radiance forever any better than the original Hollow Knight did

[tender ocean]

Ask in a different channel my dude, this is "accidentally spoiled the final boss channel"

[foggy fractal]

so gms is sexist

[timid oar]

Oh mb didn’t check sorry

[winter iris]

Not even accidentally, we blatantly and non chalantly talk about the endings and all.

[sinful nimbus]

Why did WOKE team cherry make the smartest and strongest spiders female? Do they hate men?

[foggy fractal]

yeah its all spoilers allowed here

[winter iris]

People here will get tungsten heavy spoilers dropped onto them like widow drops bells.

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway what do you guys think of the shade lord bossfight endinhg

[steep zephyr]

It's a lore channel. What do you expect?

[limpid wedge]

If Lace is a child why did Team Cherry give her a dumpy? Are they stupid?

[foggy fractal]

hmmm WOKE Cherry keeps on making gay couples die.... is this some sort of message ???

[maiden meteor]

Also Mantis clan is matriarchy and only male lord is evil

[winter iris]

Oh, I was warning the guy who came in here asking for help.

[naive crag]

it's the same

one of the most sexualized hk characters is grimm and hes a twit

[sinful nimbus]

Literally the bury your gays trope

[spark valve]

Mantis tribe might be more of a meritocracy

[naive crag]

Twig

[maiden meteor]

wah

[obsidian quail]

so if Void has an instinct to consume everything why didn’t it do so in Hallownest? does it need a medium like the Silk or did the Shamans like activate it and smack the beehive?

[naive crag]

hate that moid

[winter iris]

btw, the fastest any% speedrun is currently 1:08:15

[severe siren]

Im free

[foggy fractal]

hi

[maiden meteor]

my theory is that void simply cannot exist outside of abyss on its own

[spark valve]

It doesn’t really have the capacity for the sort of intent that requires, it only happens in ss because gms creates basically a bunch of highways for it to spread around

[severe siren]

100% steel soul in under 14 hours

[foggy fractal]

did you 100% ?

[limpid wedge]

I mean actual answer a lot of characters in this game are on a spectrum of Elegance to Nobility and those have historically been associated as feminine and masculine traits narratively

[naive crag]

it's susceptible to light makes sense it can't go higher

[foggy fractal]

awesome

[severe siren]

30 hours for the 100% achievement is very generous

[obsidian quail]

okay so it was a perfect storm

[winter iris]

GG

[naive crag]

pale king is the noblest and he's male

[maiden meteor]

Furthers we see void climb in original is that soul totem in deepnest

[obsidian quail]

interesting theory

[maiden meteor]

unlimited genocide upon children

[silent phoenix]

So what was (lore spoiler time) ||First Sinner's sin?||

[golden olive]

well we saw void in the dream world twice

[naive crag]

wow like real nobles

[maiden meteor]

he is literally embodiment of orphan crushing machine

[naive crag]

rebellion

[sinful nimbus]

Have you considered that it takes 10 hours to do the flea minigames

[obsidian quail]

the architecture in the Abyss in SS, outside of the Weavenest, those were the natural formations that Abyss rock seems to take right? like the rocks almost having a will of its own

[winter iris]

The void gets pacified/repelled by the light.
Perhaps the ligght above is the reason it cannot invade the above.

[silent phoenix]

elaborate? 👀

[maiden meteor]

Dream realm is a bit weirder

[lean temple]

The Shamans opening a portal to the surface and teleporting GMS inside the Void probably agitated it

[winter iris]

The lighthouse at the HK abyss per example.

[sinful nimbus]

Apostasy against GMS it seems

[foggy fractal]

cogflies my beloved

[lean temple]

Apostacy

[naive crag]

she opposed gms apparently

[winter iris]

What are your tips to speedrun the game fast? and in Steel soul?

[silent phoenix]

TV tropes says that she opposed the lie that the weavers were the daughters of GMS, but where's the source for that??

[golden olive]

they need a nerf honestly 💀

[limpid wedge]

Anyways there’s something to be said that the ritual the shaman’s do to summon the void is literally summoning it outside of the knight’s control, maybe that ritual is what wretched control of the void away from the knight?

It could have been more heavily implied but the implication may be there

[maiden meteor]

Or it simply lacks enough will to keep any form but giant soup at the bottom of the world

[winter iris]

VI BUG FABLES
My another beloved bug game.

[golden olive]

YEAHHHH

[foggy fractal]

tbf it is a late game tool

[sinful nimbus]

...She called us daughters... Called us divine... She lied...

The one who raged against the silken lie

[limpid wedge]

My favorite bug game is Skate 3

[maiden meteor]

I think they just opened portal straight into the abyss

[silent phoenix]

Is that top line from playing the needolin with her?

or is it just in the custcene right after she dies?

[sinful nimbus]

Its the dialogue at the end of the cutscene

[foggy fractal]

we should buff the other tools instead

[naive crag]

no that's the cutscene

[lean temple]

I think it's more that GMS is a bad person and doesn't deserve worship

[foggy fractal]

hey gef, thoughts ? #sk-lore message

[silent phoenix]

oooh... but wait that cutscene showed a regular old spider mutating into a weaver, so that wasn't Silk's doing? And how did First Sinner figure out the truth?

[sinful nimbus]

Silk transformed Pharlids into weavers it seems

[maiden meteor]

I think she might have realized that GMS didn’t care for them as much as she claimed

[sinful nimbus]

I think the "she lied" part is just that she didn't care about them after a while

[obsidian quail]

the AC is so cool

i’d love an AC DLC

[sinful nimbus]

GMS went on to make other daughters

[obsidian quail]

they were metal as fuck

[severe siren]

I saved all the quests until after the map was cleared, between ||acts 2-3||
Remember to ignore optional content that dont matter for % such as ||crawfather||, ||watcher at the edge||, ||all of verdania||||, the surface||, etc, as these only give mementos
Try to farm rosaries and clear out every tool merchant before ||act 3|| using ||thiefs mark and the big guys in citadel||
If you dont remember where the fleas are you can look those up, ||I think binding eva is required|| so basically when going through areas you only grab fleas, tools, craftmetal, at least 12 memory lockets, and any masks shards/spools

[limpid wedge]

That was Silk’s doing. It seems like First Sinner was the first weaver made, and was imperfect, due to her mask being incomplete. This could have meant that First Weaver remembered being ascended, while the other weaver’s didn’t

[maiden meteor]

It seems that at some point ancient bugs just dunked themselves into the abyss

[golden olive]

so is GMS' only clear motivation to have a family/keep lace alive

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[golden olive]

she didn't even want to have control over all of pharloom?

[uncut holly]

Yknow the Weavers if they are responsible for The Slab are straight up evil. Everything that happens in The Slab is just evil

[silent phoenix]

i mean surely there was a way that didnt involve countless deaths and suffering? xD

[maiden meteor]

I think her main goal during Act 1-2 is to awaken

[uncut holly]

The Indolents where chained to the floor with their faces covered and just left there

[limpid wedge]

I think it’s that the weaver’s aren’t actually the diving offspring of Silk and are actually just the lowest of bugs that were mutated into something more through her power. That’s the most compelling interpretation to me, anyways

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[golden olive]

my question is why the citadel even made an elevator to the cradle

[silent phoenix]

the mossbag lore video is going to be crazy

[limpid wedge]

I mean this part is TRUE for sure but I think that’s specifically the lie she cares about

[foggy fractal]

sounds about right

[silent phoenix]

To deliver captured weavers straight to Silk?

[sinful nimbus]

Tbf that's true of all her children, she can't make em naturally it seems

[maiden meteor]

It only leads as far as flower field, which was likely the furthest point of pilgrimage

[golden olive]

so true

[silent phoenix]

There are cages in the cradle with written reports on captured weavers and how many soldiers were lost capturing them

[limpid wedge]

Shoutout to someone earlier who changed my mind about that literally like two hours ago lmao, before I thought the lie was that the weaver’s aren’t actually created by her but that doesn’t actually make sense

[crisp basalt]

Also they had to get the captured weavers there somehow

[maiden meteor]

Maybe whole pilgrimage thing was to create worship and feed it to GMS

iirc worship is what makes Higher Beings stronger

[winter iris]

Thank you so much.

[limpid wedge]

But the nature of weavers as elegant beings being contrasted with their nature as savage beasts is a major theme here so I think that’s why the reveal is given so much weight

[golden olive]

were they trying to make her stronger or keep her trapped tho

[silent phoenix]

is it weird that Hornet can straight up kill Silk? Like, without even using Dream Nail shenanigans

is it because Hornet herslef is a higher being?

[icy totem]

bro red memory was absolute cinema

[foggy fractal]

red memory was red

[obsidian quail]

so you guys say Void symbolizes the end, when the AC is saying stuff like “Void cleanse us”, are they talking about becoming “Lost” or death and dissolving into the Void, or becoming akin to a vessel like the Knight?

[naive crag]

she cant

[winter iris]

It makes sense steel soul speedrunning favors avoiding all fights, unless they are absolutely mandatory.

[maiden meteor]

Initially GMS was an object of worship, and then Weavers turned on her

[limpid wedge]

I really like the fake out when you think you’re going to get a memory with the pale king but that parkour section is the only one to not have a memory

[silent phoenix]

why tho? was it because of First SInner's realisation it was a lie?

whatever "it" was

[lean temple]

GMS is a physical HB. She's not in the dream realm so DN isn't needed. Hornet can bind her power after she is weakened through combat. Also possible that since GMS awoke recently that she isn't at full power yet.

[crisp basalt]

What we really don't know is exactly why

[winter iris]

Even the Knight only drowns the radiance into the void.
And only kills AbsRad as the Lord of Shades.

[maiden meteor]

They probably saw perfection in void’s emptiness and wanted to be part of it

[severe siren]

||Act 3 quests|| are also necessary btw (minus ||tormented trobbio)|| as they give mask shards or in the case of ||pinstress, the tool||

[obsidian quail]

i’m curious about the AC’s relationship with the Void

[golden olive]

but i thought the citadel was responsible for forcing her into slumber

[limpid wedge]

What’s AC?

[golden olive]

or was that not intentonal

[foggy fractal]

ancient civilzation

[obsidian quail]

ancient civilization

[limpid wedge]

I might be dumb

[winter iris]

GMS got betrayed and trapped for 1000 years.

[silent phoenix]

So Weavers were highly respected and worshipped?

[foggy fractal]

dw it took me a second to realize too

[limpid wedge]

Okay that’s what I thought but I was thinking “Ancient Cingdom? That can’t be right”

[foggy fractal]

LMAO

[obsidian quail]

if i throw a bug into the Void, it dissolves right?

[uncut holly]

I mean GMS was contained before Hollow Knight even started

Or before the Pale King got to Hallownest

[foggy fractal]

😭

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think void symbolizes inevitable death of everything but rather is a part of natural balance

[naive crag]

air conditioner

[winter iris]

Im so happy Sherma lived.

[foggy fractal]

Sherm

[blissful harbor]

the only reason we needed the dream nail to kill Rad was because she isn’t apart of the physical world

[limpid wedge]

Brrrrr

[lean temple]

And Shakra

[winter iris]

Im so happy they did not pull a myla.
And shakra!

[maiden meteor]

Life is born from the Light above and fades into the Void below

[naive crag]

and flick

flick matters more than the rest

[silent phoenix]

I love that the fleas all survived

[limpid wedge]

Would you guys have liked it if the Grim Troupe showed up in Pharloom during the base game?

[nimble ocean]

Yes

Same with the godseeket

[maiden meteor]

Kratt can go die for all I care

[uncut holly]

I think the Radiance only could have been killed the way it was killed. By locking it inside a will-less vessel with a unified void. The Pale King did have foresight after all, even if there was no way he could save his kingdom he would ensure the Radiance atleast went down after.

[blissful harbor]

no

[winter iris]

Pharloom is in decay, a target for the Grimm troupe

[silent phoenix]

what about Pebb tho? last i heard of her, she was going to up to the citadel, buti never saw her again :(

[naive crag]

grim glaze goes a long way no

[lean temple]

Garmond😭

[silent phoenix]

i mean, hallownest is 99.999999% dead when grimm shows up, but there's still hope for pharloom

[crisp basalt]

Well given Godhome ending is Canon that's not really possible

[winter iris]

I gave him a funeral.

[obsidian quail]

does pharloom meet the requirements

[naive crag]

i feel bad for her we never see her again

[lean temple]

In Act 3 it could be possible

[maiden meteor]

Personally I think Pharloom isn’t ripe enough for Grimm’s taste

[foggy fractal]

I think we see her corpse in marrow

[blissful harbor]

the troupe goes to dead kingdoms, pharloom is in the process of dying but it’s still kicking

[limpid wedge]

You would think so, but they also have no connection to Dreams whatsoever and maybe that’s a requirement too

[lean temple]

It's way past its prime. And in Act 3 is actively collapsing

[nimble ocean]

What if the beast on top of mohtn fay takes you to the land of storms in a future dlc

[uncut holly]

Their at the entrance of the original Flea Caravan spot dead. I tried to save them there nothing you can do

[limpid wedge]

I can buy this

[maiden meteor]

I have a feeling Higher Being wouldn’t really want to hang around in Void Apocalypse

[winter iris]

These pilgrims are STRONG, if they can go upwards and survive with no weapons.
Imagine if they actually were armed and defended themselves.

[limpid wedge]

Especially since at the end of the game there’s hope for it

[crisp basalt]

Also it's interesting that Hornet knows Mister Mushrooms true nature

[foggy fractal]

btw I wonder how dlcs will work ? I assume it will be acessible in all acts ? maybe not ? thoughts ?

[blissful harbor]

hornet knows literally everything it’s hilarious

[uncut holly]

They where told it made them less worthy if they fought back and didnt rely on faith to protect them

[maiden meteor]

Knight might have had some benevolence towards Grimm but wild void wouldn’t be so nice

[crisp basalt]

Tbf she is old as hell

But still

[uncut holly]

Hornet knows alot about Hallownest but I dont think they know too much about Pharloom

[lean temple]

I think the Nightmare's Heart is pretty safe in the Dream (or Nightmare) Realm, but yeah idk if the Troupe would like to set up shop during the apocalypse

[sinful nimbus]

It basically dies in act 3

[limpid wedge]

Honestly I think it’s great, she’s been around for a long fucking time of course she’s gotten around

[golden olive]

i dont understand the citadel's relationship to GMS 😭 were they delivering weavers to her while still being opposed to her?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't want the troupe because their quest is kinda mid

[silent phoenix]

yeah they're the sort to show up after the apocalypse has already happened

[maiden meteor]

Void has the ability to invade dream realm so eh

[obsidian quail]

i’m thinking of getting a HK tattoo, should i get the Void idol from HK or Weaver Effigy from Silksong

[blissful harbor]

doesn’t the act end with you saving the kingdom

[naive crag]

bro even sherma can go up by himself and cant defeat the whiteways bugs

[sinful nimbus]

GMS seized control of the citadel with the haunting

[limpid wedge]

Vetruvian Grub full scale on your back

[uncut holly]

I dont think the Troupe will show up because dreams arent really a thing in Silksong. it probably exists but no one can access it

[silent phoenix]

I think GMS is controlling the citadel with the haunting

[obsidian quail]

everyone has the King’s brand

[sinful nimbus]

No you dismantle the old system so something new can take place, like HK

[naive crag]

void idol

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think general Citadel population knew about GMS at all

[naive crag]

full scale is really small

[polar yacht]

BIG IMPORTANT lore question.

Is there any record of the Weavers trying to tell the bugs of the citadel of the true purpose of their song?

[limpid wedge]

Shit you’re right

[uncut holly]

I dont think dreams are a Hallownest only thing, it probably is just the afterlife other world, but no one has learned anything about it in Pharloom

[maiden meteor]

neither they knew about Weavers’ business

[lean temple]

Maybe King's Brand and the Silk Spool ball from silksong, tho Weaver Effigy would go hard

[silent phoenix]

I really wish a longer cutscene would play of all the npcs having happy endings, and hornet and lace becoming friends (???) after act 3

Like please let me know all the friends we made are ok :(

[icy totem]

bugs in pharloom are pretty strong compared to hallownest

[uncut holly]

The bugs in Pharloom do evasive manuevers

[crisp basalt]

It's just that Hallownest has the God of Dreams right there

So it's way more connected

[maiden meteor]

I think dreams are more of a remnants rather then fully fledged afterlife

[neat sandal]

GMS is god emperor?

[uncut holly]

Hallowest has the Radiance, Unn, and Pale King all of them use dreams, but the Radiance is like the main god of dreams.

[naive crag]

grandmother silk

[limpid wedge]

Hey, where do the pilgrims come from anyways?

[blissful harbor]

Rad isn’t the god of dreams, she’s a god of light
she’s just really really good with them, since yk she’s a god and lives in the dream realm

[uncut holly]

I mean shes the main one thats associated with it

[lean temple]

Dreams are made of light

[blissful harbor]

doesn’t make her the god of it

[uncut holly]

that is true

[crisp basalt]

Also I'm intrigued by the Lifeblood exploration

[maiden meteor]

I think Radiance just was the one to explain dream realm to moth tribe

[sinful nimbus]

It seems they are born in Pharloom but like idk where

[limpid wedge]

I don’t think gods have domains like that in hollow knight. Radiance for sure has dominion over dreams even if she’s not actually “the god of dreams”

[naive crag]

i wonder if lifeblood will take over the entirety of wormways eventually

[crisp basalt]

I feel like one of dlc might focus on real nature of lifeblood

[vague jasper]

Why did grand mother silk help us in the end

[polar yacht]

Can someone answer this it's really important for the lore write up I'm doing

[uncut holly]

That could be why the Moths knew abou the Dream Realm because their god lives in it

[blissful harbor]

she’s not the only god of light, we know PK is one too
it’s likely what gives her such control over them yuh, but like she’s still not the god of them

[golden olive]

she wanted lace safe

[maiden meteor]

to save Lace

[vague jasper]

I thought she didn't care about lace

[sinful nimbus]

Cannot believe they copied Ori 1's ending smh my head

[limpid wedge]

It seems like the citadel happened mostly after the weavers died

[crisp basalt]

Only thing she cares about is Lace

[limpid wedge]

Thanos core

[atomic zephyr]

Have we figured out why Widow and the First Sinner are so similar? Is the First Sinner just the dream version of Widow or something?

[maiden meteor]

I think all of conventional Higher Beings are of similar nature and thus have similar powers

[blissful harbor]

they’re both weavers

[limpid wedge]

She’s a shit mother but she still does care in her own twisted way

[sinful nimbus]

Same species

[crisp basalt]

They are Both Weavers

[polar yacht]

The citadel was built while the weavers were in power and playing their song, until the Citadel got big enough that they forcefully usurped the Weavers

[lean temple]

I would've hoped if Silksong specified her exact relation to dreams. If the NH is the top dog of Nightmares we don't have the top dog of dreams if the Radiance isn't it

[maiden meteor]

they are born from light, can grant sentience and have some control over minds as well

[uncut holly]

Its possible Widow has something to do with GMS waking up, as they are their musician

[maiden meteor]

I think Light in general symbolizes life and sentience when Void is a lack of those

[limpid wedge]

I have to really disagree with this. Pale beings, maybe, but we’ve seen a massive variety in the forms and abilities of great beings

[atomic zephyr]

Well yeah but it’s like, the same voice lines and moveset (albeit the First Sinner has an upgraded one).

[uncut holly]

You can also go to each of those weaver shrines and play music at the harp thing below them to get information on who the Weaver was. I havent seen all of them.

[sinful nimbus]

Moveset is pretty different

[golden olive]

ok so GMS was more concerned with keeping lace alive with the silk from the weaver's she captured than being unsealed? do we know how hornet was able to unseal her?

[vague jasper]

Maybe I am missing some dialogue, the needolin dialogue in one room showed lace asking the question of why did she make us and does she even care about us

[foggy fractal]

same explanation goes I think

they're both weavers they prob know similar stuff

[maiden meteor]

I mean at least in first game all of Higher Beings minus White Queen work with dreams in some way

[lean temple]

YOU CAN??!

[naive crag]

los and pk are complete opposites wdym

[uncut holly]

Yep

[maiden meteor]

LoS isn’t a conventional Higher Beings

[vague jasper]

Yes

[neat sandal]

Is Lace created by weavers or just GMS
why they say our
"From our Silk... A child born loyal..."

[naive crag]

and what makes a higher being conventional

[uncut holly]

You can also play music to enemies and a thread of silk will hit them in the head and you can briefly see their thoughts, they break out of it quick though

[foggy fractal]

Lace is created by GMS

[lean temple]

Yeah ik that. Didn't know the Weaver shrine thing

[limpid wedge]

I don’t think she’s sealed at all during the game, Hornet just rolls up to where she’s chilling and pulling the strings from

[golden olive]

is she not sealed did i make that up 💀

[crisp basalt]

Created by GMS from Weaver Silk

[sinful nimbus]

She was sealed

[maiden meteor]

all of them we’ve seen so far are in some way of form are related either to light or dreams

[vague jasper]

Why was GMS hunting all weavers anyways

[uncut holly]

Im looking into The Slab now it seems the Flies say stuff roughly like, I can be redeemed! and, YOUR THE FILTH!

[limpid wedge]

Wyrms seem like the only higher being that we know is an actual animal species with consistent natures and even then we only actually see one

[golden olive]

was she already unsealed by the time we got there like why was she not trying to be unsealed

[crisp basalt]

They betrayed her

[vague jasper]

How

[maiden meteor]

Even GMS could be argued to be related to dreams by virtue of Needoline being essentially dream nail

[uncut holly]

The Flies appear to be taking it out on the prisoners but also swept up in the religious idea they where born unworthy

[naive crag]

unn?

[uncut holly]

So they put the prisoners down like "you are more unworthy than me"

[limpid wedge]

I’m pretty sure yeah, Silk’s goal isn’t to be unsealed it’s to kidnap more sources of silk

[limpid wedge]

Do we know of others in that species?

[blissful harbor]

we know of other slugs
we don’t know if unn is actually a slug

[maiden meteor]

her entry states she desperate to awaken though

[uncut holly]

Theres also a very weird thing with the flies. So the tiny flies perch on the resting Indolent people locked up chained to the floor with a bag on their head. But the tiny flies are actually whispering to them.

[golden olive]

that's interesting

[limpid wedge]

Oh nvm then

[uncut holly]

I have a recording i have to look back on it and see what they say

Oh they where saying Ssssssssinnnnner. and Ddddont Moooovee.

[limpid wedge]

Rip Cosplay Fly dude 😔

[maiden meteor]

Nah this guy had it coming

[limpid wedge]

Oh for sure

I just wanted to coin the term Cosplay Fly

[golden olive]

so then why did she seemingly not try to use the bugs she was controlling with the haunting to try and wake up or get unsealed or whatever

[maiden meteor]

It’s really funny how it’s implied to be the moment that pissed Hornet off THE most

[naive crag]

which guy are we talking about

[uncut holly]

Oh yeah the fly that dressed up as you

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think normal bugs would be able to undo Weavers’ seal

[naive crag]

not that we know of

[limpid wedge]

I’m so sad I didn’t get to see that in my run, when I was watching a playthrough and she snapped his fucking neck I laughed my ass off

[uncut holly]

I dont think you can see their thoughts because you dont have your needle

[limpid wedge]

Hornet doesn’t do anything to unseal her though, she just challenges her

[maiden meteor]

it also starts playing reprise of her theme from original game

[naive crag]

ohhh its about the slab

shes so mad her own theme plays

[golden olive]

bro this is so contrived 😭😭😭💀

[maiden meteor]

so she was PISSED

[uncut holly]

Another thing about the playing music to see their thoughts. The direction of the thread line that hits them changes mattering on where you are

I was doing this in the Marrow and it came from above, in The Slab it always comes from the right

[maiden meteor]

maybe GMS just got really angry we killed Lace

[winter iris]

ngl GMS looked like she could just, leave any time.

[naive crag]

btw its interesting red maiden is just hornets theme but without the pale king motif

[limpid wedge]

Lmao literal “why do I hear boss music” moment

[vague jasper]

I am missing so much lore, hopefully we quickly get some lore video

[maiden meteor]

she isn’t bound by her protector duty anymore so it makes sense

[naive crag]

id say we barely have lore in comparison to hollow knight

[golden olive]

i don't think so, especially since GMS would presumably know that lace is still alive if she can sense her life in the first place

[naive crag]

she just hates pk trust me

my source is myself i like to believe that

[obsidian quail]

so is the Void like semi sentient?

[limpid wedge]

I thought so too at first but the more I’ve explored the more questions I’ve found

[maiden meteor]

I think she hates her legacy in general

[vague jasper]

Needolin dialogues have a lot, you just gotta scratch the dialogues

[crisp basalt]

Kinda Funny how much Hornet doesn't like that part of herself, but at the same time she loves all her little tools and contraptions especially the buzzsaws

[uncut holly]

The void is sentient but not unified, from Hollow Knight

[winter iris]

Thanks to the void heart, yes.

Well, unified.

[golden olive]

unified under the knight

[limpid wedge]

Do we even know who freed Hornet at the start of the game? Lace is the only one we see interacting with butterflies but lace is hostile at the start of the game so idk if I buy that

[obsidian quail]

outside of the Knight

[naive crag]

like what

[sinful nimbus]

Seeing as how it told the lighthouse bug to turn off the lighthouse yeah

[maiden meteor]

I think void itself doesn’t have any will

[uncut holly]

Like they normally only know to slash at things that are near them, or call in unison for the Light House guy in Hollow Knight to turn off the light

[maiden meteor]

but knight has the ability to control it

[crisp basalt]

I think it's just that Shade Lord isn't omnipresent in the Void

[vague jasper]

The God master ending is the canon one then, since shade lord is present in the true ending

[obsidian quail]

the tendrils and eyeballs

[sinful nimbus]

You kinda need to be sentient to converse

[golden olive]

i think lace is the only real plausible answer for now

[uncut holly]

They are too disorganized to unify and do anything

[naive crag]

the butterflies have something to do with silk

[crisp basalt]

It's obeys him anywhere he is but he has to actually be there

[obsidian quail]

oh that’s right

[uncut holly]

Shade lord is them unified yeah

[naive crag]

remember they appear before phantom too

[maiden meteor]

by default void just consumes

but it’s too unorganized to even leave abyss

[uncut holly]

Even in Silk Song, the void is still too disorganized to plan or do anything, it just wants the soul thats in GMS. And also Silk is made with soul so it follows the line up until it reachs all the people.

[vague jasper]

The Knight is still alive in the void then, but if he doesn't feel any emotions, why did he save hornet

[obsidian quail]

this would have been great and what i thought, if only TK didn’t have to attack himself but i guess he was just aura farming for sis

[maiden meteor]

because he does feel

[limpid wedge]

The knight was never actually emotionless

[maiden meteor]

there was never a perfect vessel

[uncut holly]

What happened to Garmond is presumeably he got hit by a silk thread, and got hollowed out by the void.

[foggy fractal]

aura farm 🥶

[maiden meteor]

Void Heart doesn’t make Knight hollow, it just allows knight to impose its will

[golden olive]

<entry name="NOTE_ABYSS_MASS">A creature born of a bug's desperate hope for strength. Few possess the skill to call the void, and of those that can, none possess the means to tame it.</entry>

anyone know what journal entry this is

[uncut holly]

Oh thats the Steel Soul only boss

[blissful harbor]

summoned savior

[arctic mountain]

The knight displays empathy several times in hk so yeah cute little imperfect vessel

[vague jasper]

So then if the God master ending is the canon one, what happened to the Hollow knight

[uncut holly]

So in Steel Soul mode theres a new NPC Steel Seer Zi, who is hunting a lowly servant who learned void rituals and fled from the City of Steel. Its apparently heresy to do what he did and hes wanted to be hunted.

[maiden meteor]

I think Team Cherry got sick of everyone calling Knight empty

[blissful harbor]

hornet fucking killed it

[maiden meteor]

chillin

[limpid wedge]

It’s possible the tendrils we see there are supposed to be void possessed silk, and not just shapes made of void

[uncut holly]

Personal theory I dont think void is heresy in the City of Steel, I think it was heresy for a lowly bug like him to do anything with it.

[swift depot]

Was karmalita created by monstahler

[naive crag]

it opened up a bakery

[vague jasper]

That seems unlikely

[maiden meteor]

I think tendrils attack Hornet because they just feel soul and want to consume it

[vague jasper]

Hallownest is a dead Kingdom tho as indicated many times by hornet

[uncut holly]

What evidence do we have Hornet killed the Hollow Knight?

[maiden meteor]

then Knight realizes it’s Hornet’s soul and goes “Hol up”

[blissful harbor]

none it’s a joke

[naive crag]

we know nothing about the hollow knight

[uncut holly]

ah ok

[vague jasper]

She successfully saved pharloom tho

[whole holly]

are Steel bugs related to Ancient Civilization?

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think so

[crisp basalt]

Also they are currently fighting GMS so Void might be more agitated

[uncut holly]

I mean maybe but the Steel Bugs seem related to another civilization The City of Steel

[whole holly]

do they worship void or utilize it?

[vague jasper]

Where are steel bugs?

[maiden meteor]

Steel bugs look wildly different to anything we see in Abyss

[obsidian quail]

only Ancient Civilization explicitly worship the Void

[crisp basalt]

My Guess is Steel Resists Void

[obsidian quail]

the rest are either curious, use it, or have a fascination about it

[maiden meteor]

maybe steel bugs are built upon ancient tech but that’s it

[uncut holly]

We dont really have many civilizations in the Hollow Knight universe, there was Hallownest that was a shining beacon in the wasteland after Pale King tamed minds of bugs there. There Pharloom which the Pilgrimage thing seems to be because of its majesty rather than a call, it might also be a call from GMS though.

[crisp basalt]

Which is why they can use it

[whole holly]

i believed it contained it

[crisp basalt]

I mean physically

[maiden meteor]

like snail shamans likely utilize ancient spell knowledge without worshipping void

[crisp basalt]

So yes it can contain it

[nimble walrus]

the pilgrimage is a call

[vague jasper]

There's the land of shakra

[limpid wedge]

Does Steel itself, like the material, show up at all in Silksong besides the steel guys?

[uncut holly]

That to

[obsidian quail]

we only know 4 civilizations/kingdoms if u count all of Hallownest as 1

[maiden meteor]

Hivesteel

[vague jasper]

And also the land where the white lady comes from

[crisp basalt]

There are Wingmolds in red dream

[naive crag]

lands serene

[blissful harbor]

it’s ambiguous what the steel clans exact relationship is with void
the masters seem to condemn it’s unauthorized use, but confessors have the power to draw on it for…reasons

[uncut holly]

Everyone in Pharloom though is a traveler it seems, the original people of the land where forced into servitude or destroyed.

[vapid spade]

what is the ssize of hronet

hornet

[arctic mountain]

Smol

[obsidian quail]

smol

[vague jasper]

The original were prolly weavers, the ants, the people of verdania and the coral tower populous

[gilded beacon]

The last Needle upgrade says it's made out of "pale steel"

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think Pharloom has any normal bug infrastructure at all

[uncut holly]

Like the Deep Docks people for mining, the Greymoor people for making crops, the Sinners Road people for wrangling animals. I think they are all the original native bugs that where forced into this.

[maiden meteor]

only natives in here are wild tribes

[uncut holly]

Moorwing is a giant flying Mite that was specially bred to hunt people from Greymoor who tried to run

Then the wranglers died and it started eatting everyone

[crisp basalt]

We know before GMS there were 4 thriving Kingdoms

[vague jasper]

There are many specially bred creatures in memoriam as well

[whole holly]

which ones

[maiden meteor]

3 kingdoms and a forest to be precise

[crisp basalt]

Right

[vapid spade]

thats smol

[maiden meteor]

and I think ants were more of a tribe than kingdom

[naive crag]

is styx the same species as the huntress

[whole holly]

can you list them?

[vapid spade]

can she take on a F/A-18 Hornet

[arctic mountain]

Ant tribe, verdania, the forest, and karak

[uncut holly]

There also the Flies who might have been a group, we dont know what their crime was. But they where forced to manage The Slab and have been doing so since for a long time

[vague jasper]

They were unified under karmelita

[maiden meteor]

Verdania, whatever was in sands, hunters march and shellwood

[crisp basalt]

Point is they were Forces that shaped land

[uncut holly]

Its elluded to that the Ants probably used to be really chill

[whole holly]

thanks

[crisp basalt]

Before GMS rose to power

[vague jasper]

Weavers were in this land for a long time as well

Prolly originated here aswell

[uncut holly]

The giant ants where supposed to guard Stores, as in vendor shops

[crisp basalt]

Oh right a weavers obviously

[uncut holly]

Ants where probably alright back in the day

[maiden meteor]

I think GMS and weavers were pretty chill until Citadel business started

[vague jasper]

Ants were more civilised as you have to challenge karmelita rather than outright fighting

[uncut holly]

From the looks of it, the ants where a very large thriving tribes hunter civilization who didnt attack outsiders and where willing to trade with people. They had battle and hunter elements but they where open for outsiders to walk through their land and do business with them

[maiden meteor]

then GMS tried to impose her will on other powerful beings and ultimately got rid of them

[crisp basalt]

They were probably a lot like mantises but degenerated into more barbaric state they are in now

[uncut holly]

The traps exist probably because they where fighting the Citadel

They might have actually been more chill than the Mantis's

[vague jasper]

Was GMS always in pharloom, if yes then what made her snap and destroy pharloom

[maiden meteor]

I assume ants used to be pretty angry before Karmelita united them

[uncut holly]

I think Karmelita is their origin, she was called a mother at some point

[vague jasper]

She is their queen

[uncut holly]

She also is extremely long lived

[naive crag]

do we know what happened to verdania

[maiden meteor]

don’t shamans say that she united tribes with her singing

[naive crag]

why did they need a deal with the citadel

[uncut holly]

Oh maybe

[arctic mountain]

Verdania collapsed without its gay princes

[maiden meteor]

Citadel wanted them to submit and they refused

then Citadel probably did something nasty

[naive crag]

the gay prince sacrificed himself TO SAVE verdania tho

[maiden meteor]

Well, Citadel lied

[vague jasper]

Erased by GMS prolly, a board in memoriam lists 3 areas, one of which is verdania with the status being, forgotten

[uncut holly]

They killed one Prince and put them in a robot, to add to the list of Citadel crimes. Then they left the other in a cage. The Princes where seemingly special in that they did not starve and probably could live forever.

Green Prince is very likely immortal

[arctic mountain]

Green princes lover made a deal to save verdania and the citadel said sike

[blissful harbor]

i don’t think they killed the prince who went into the robot, pretty sure that was his own choice

[naive crag]

theyre home of phobic

[uncut holly]

They talk about how the two Princes where born special and destined to rule together, their union was fated as part of their tradition

[maiden meteor]

I think putrified ducts might be why Verdania died

[crisp basalt]

It's not close at all tho

[uncut holly]

Because realistically the Green Prince has been in that cage for a very very very very very very very long time

[vague jasper]

And how did a water area end up as a freaking sand dune

[uncut holly]

Before Pale King

[maiden meteor]

Well I mean more like, dumping waste in general direction

[neat sandal]

then whose corpse at the cave?

[nimble walrus]

Diverted the flow of water probably

[arctic mountain]

Green prince old as fuck he cant even remember his home

[maiden meteor]

Question is

[vague jasper]

To where

[uncut holly]

The cave? The Green Prince goes to the Verdania cave in act 3 and you enter their memories and fight them. And you can kill them.

[vague jasper]

Coral chambers?

[maiden meteor]

how there was a water area right above blasted steps

[nimble walrus]

Citadel i guess

[naive crag]

blsted steps used to be water

[vague jasper]

I assume the geography of sands of karak used to be different

[uncut holly]

Act 3 heart quest is about making a hard choice, you can only spare one. Do you killed Karmelita, destroy all the plant life in Shellwood and starve the town of Belharts food source, or kill the Green Prince

[arctic mountain]

His heart is still beating after all that's an interest take

[brisk viper]

ok so i got the ||true ending|| and i have some potentially dumb questions ||did we save pharloom? from what i understand...the grand mother silk getting pulled into the void with lace and her resisting it to keep lace alive was what caused pharloom to kind of unravel, yes? and at the end of lace 3 she gave up the rest of her silk (and presumably her life) to give you the strength to escape with her- so does that mean no more void quakes for the land?||

[vague jasper]

I killed them all

[uncut holly]

Or you can just do the true solution to the trolley problem

[neat sandal]

yes. but you said they put one in robot.
then who at the cave?

[maiden meteor]

wasnt plant thing already dead anyway

[naive crag]

nyleth is still influencial

[crisp basalt]

Answer is Yes

[naive crag]

she controls seth

[crisp basalt]

I did all 4 of them

[whole hawk]

The extra heart exists so that people who dont want to do Trial of Fools can skip it

[uncut holly]

Im not sure but Nyleth says at the end of their fight that what will happened to the plant life without her

[whole hawk]

Why wpuld you skip it anyway when its so fun

[uncut holly]

So i think all of Shellwood atleast dies

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s implied Nyleth planted the seed of Shellwood and it can exist on its own

[crisp basalt]

She is already dead she just has lingering influence

[naive crag]

nyleth is the seed

[vague jasper]

2 out of the 4 were already dead

Karmelita was old

[uncut holly]

Maybe, the ending message upon you killing them seems to guilt you though as what will happen without them

[vague jasper]

And green prince had nothing left

[maiden meteor]

I think shamans explicitly say that we only destroy memory

[uncut holly]

Well Green Prince could have lived on and made something new

The Nail Smith situation

[arctic mountain]

It wasnt worth it to him

[maiden meteor]

I think Green Prince is far too gone

[arctic mountain]

His lover was everything to him

[vague jasper]

His species is dead and for him only his love and his home mattered

[crisp basalt]

And Karmelita clearly doesn't have any control of ants anymore

[uncut holly]

He still could have made something new

[maiden meteor]

I think more than that, his lover was basically part of his soul

[uncut holly]

Feel like we make the choice for him

[naive crag]

he dont wanna

[vague jasper]

No, in the memory we try to talk sense to him but he chooses to fight

[naive crag]

he wants his malewife back

[uncut holly]

I think Green Prince is the worst option because he had the best prospects

[vague jasper]

It's all he wants

[maiden meteor]

they weren’t just lovers, they were fated to be together

[crisp basalt]

He doesn't care

[uncut holly]

Yeah but I still feel like if he lived he would find something even though he really doesnt want to

[arctic mountain]

The green princes ending is actually very bitter sweet, because you help him atleast unite with his lover again, the conjoined heart implies the green princes soul and his lover are now together forever even if you kill his body

[uncut holly]

Its all sad

[vague jasper]

Green prince would have prolly offed himself anyways if we didn't go for it

[crisp basalt]

Together on my Bookshelf

How sweet

[arctic mountain]

Honestly as far as fates go in the series, that's kinda sweet

[maiden meteor]

One last dance with his love 😔

[naive crag]

whatever i dont like him anyways

he loves basically himself what a narcissist fxck him

[crisp basalt]

I do like how his fight is just phase 2 and 3 of Cog Dancers Dialed Up

[maiden meteor]

Before you annihilate said heart

[vague jasper]

Khann was a strict but caring ruler

[crisp basalt]

He was a Conqueror

[uncut holly]

Yeah it seems Khann started as a conqueror turned into a savior against the Citadel

[vague jasper]

His Soldiers were very loyal to him, he cared about his home

[uncut holly]

He probably didnt intend that

[maiden meteor]

Calls himself Conqueror, didn’t conquer shit

[crisp basalt]

Entire Blast Dunes used to be part of Coral Caves

[maiden meteor]

ahh okay that’s fair

[uncut holly]

The crabs where the last ones to last the longest against the Citadel, which puts them at the end of the civilization timeline, all the other died and they where still going. But then the drought incident happened which we know nothing about and it killed all of them except for the Watcher at the Edge

[maiden meteor]

honestly I think Nyleth and Khann are way too underdeveloped as characters

[blissful canyon]

is this the bench guy from bone bottom?

[arctic mountain]

Oh honey

[uncut holly]

yeeeeeeeeeeeee PILLBY!!!!!!

[blissful canyon]

oh...

[vague jasper]

No he dies

[neat sandal]

Karmelita kinda not necessary to die most
2 of heart owner already dead.
green prince kinda last of his kind
and no one care about him and him not care about anything else in this world
Karmelita atleast still can watch her childrens
and Gilly atleast said her still "vital"

[maiden meteor]

Prince probably gets the most character development from the 4

[uncut holly]

No you can save him

[blissful canyon]

wait what when did he die?

he didnt get run over by the tyrant for me

[naive crag]

because the others dont get any

[arctic mountain]

The bone bottom tyrant scene left me actual speechless like pilby just fucking dies in an instant

[uncut holly]

If you do your actions right Pillby the bench in Bone Bottom guy will live, and he will go to the top of the Citadel

[vague jasper]

Nope, once you do the skull tyrant quest

[uncut holly]

You have to get to Songclave without fully doing all the quests

[naive crag]

you can save him actually

[maiden meteor]

Karmelita has banger ost so all is forgiven

[uncut holly]

He can live

[naive crag]

but he dies in act 3 my pilby is dead as fuck dead forever

[vague jasper]

Did you not visit his funeral

[blissful canyon]

where...?

[arctic mountain]

Being tied to one of the best fights in the series will do that

Cogwork dancers my beloved

[uncut holly]

Pillby can either die if you do all the quests in Bone Bottom and buy out the shop, or he can live if you unlock Songclave and talk to him enough. You have to talk to him though and not finish all the quests in Bone Bottom

[vague jasper]

Karmelita is very very old, can't do much except for just existing

[arctic mountain]

On the bridge/pit over looking the moss grotto

[vague jasper]

Her rule has clearly faded

[uncut holly]

He also tells you his name is Pillby

[vague jasper]

The ants will prolly prosper under a new queen

[uncut holly]

Theres alot of Pillby interactions, or he can just die

[neat sandal]

she is "The strength that sustained these caves"

[crisp basalt]

If he tells you his name and then you trigger tyrant attack

Hornet will actually tell Pilgrims his name when they ask

[blissful canyon]

I think I talked to him often, like I visited bone bottom to check for new quests often, so where does he go if he doesnt die?

[uncut holly]

The tyrant attack only happens if you do the quest and the shop is gone

[vague jasper]

Yeah the caves are not well sustained now

[naive crag]

no

it happens with the shop too but he doesnt die

[maiden meteor]

Btw

[naive crag]

theyre all greedy idk

there songclave shop too is like omg the world is ending buy while you can

[maiden meteor]

Do we think most of bugs in Pharloom are fine now that Haunting is gone

[blissful canyon]

also dont we have to KILL the tyrant to complete the task board?

[uncut holly]

Im currently trying to experiment with this and make him live, i was told that as long as you dont progress quests the Tyrant wont come

And that if you make Pett leave they will also come after a while

[naive crag]

majority were dead already and revived by the silk

[winter iris]

Those who lived yes, and they will have to rebuild.

[vague jasper]

Yes, hornet is half wyrm so the kingdom will prosper under her

If she decides to stay

[naive crag]

hornet doesnt wanna rule pharloom

[maiden meteor]

Bellhart kinda implies that it is possible to survive Haunting

[naive crag]

thats what the whole void thing is about...

[crisp basalt]

Also there is a lot of stuff that is aggressive even outside of haunting

[fluid musk]

idk if shes staying...

[crisp basalt]

Like the Bilewater tribe

[maiden meteor]

Bilewater can be firebombed for all I care

[naive crag]

they extended their lives by injecting silk

[vague jasper]

Not rule, but she can watch over and help rebuild

[winter iris]

In the sisters of the void ending, Pharloom will live.

[uncut holly]

The Bilewater tribe is also quite old

[crisp basalt]

Clearly hates everyone anyway

[naive crag]

citadel bugs are most likely dead but not because of the haunting

[uncut holly]

They are also friendly with the shamans

[crisp basalt]

Ah yes

.... Friendly

[winter iris]

they should have injected lifeblood.

[blissful canyon]

speaking of pillby the hell happens to the shop guy in bone bottom?

he told me he will meet me later on but I didnt see him anywhere

[vague jasper]

Also Hornet doesn't have any good reason to leave pharloom as of right now as hallownest isn't worth returning to

[uncut holly]

I dont know ive heard bone bottom shop guy goes to the old Flea Spot i dont know anything else

[crisp basalt]

Side note, love the Temu Vengefull Spirit

[uncut holly]

Currently trying to save all bone bottom people

[maiden meteor]

I think Hornet’s stance is basically “No Gods or Kings, Only Bug”

[uncut holly]

The Bell Way person cannot be saved

[blissful canyon]

there's also 2 more pilgrims that arrive in bone bottom

horned pilgrim and another one whos name I forgot

[crisp basalt]

Issue is, Someone is needed to coordinate the Rebuild, and someone will always try to seize rule for themself

[naive crag]

i want more lore for my wife

[uncut holly]

However I have been told that you can save Pillby, that you must keep talking to him often and do not complete all of Bone Bottoms quest because if you rest on a bench after beating Bone Bottom quests it will happen. I am told that you can get Pillby to leave before it happens and that they appear at the Inn in Farfields, then at the Citadel.

[naive crag]

do we know if styx has anything to do with huntress

[nova sluice]

Curse extraction looks very painful
Red Memory looks very painful
Hornet is way tougher thn I imagined

[vague jasper]

There will be a golden age atleast tho

For a while

[maiden meteor]

that’s why she says to Pinmaster that Pharloom will need strong bugs

[blissful canyon]

he appears at songclave?

[crisp basalt]

Tbf It's easier when you can regenerate yourself

[vague jasper]

She is half god so she can endure a lot

[blissful canyon]

I didnt see the tyrant cutscene but neither have I seen pillby at song clave

[uncut holly]

Apparently if you do it right ive been told

[lean temple]

Probably same species

[blissful canyon]

what happened to the guy bro 😭

[maiden meteor]

It is stated multiple times that Hornet is way sturdier than average bug

[uncut holly]

Maybe go meet him at the Inn spot im not sure the timeline im trying to experiment with it now

[nova sluice]

She can survive but still looks absurdly painful

[maiden meteor]

makes sense considering her lineage

[blissful canyon]

he isnt at the inn spot either, only the shopkeeper is there

[vague jasper]

Becuz it is, normal bugs would simply die

[crisp basalt]

She can Resist Lifeblood tho not nearly as well as knight

[blissful canyon]

does he die off screen?

[uncut holly]

I have no idea, im trying to figure things out myself

[crisp basalt]

Knight is basically immune to side effects lmao

[vague jasper]

Also explains the 2 mask damage

[nova sluice]

That's the thing, imagine how thought Hornet is and imagine how painful must something be to make her scream like that

[maiden meteor]

I think Knight takes Lifeblood fine because they’re part void

[uncut holly]

I dont know, I only know the Bellway Bug person with the camp in the fast travel spot dies no matter what

[vague jasper]

Knight is just sturdier

[maiden meteor]

like Joni’s Blessing would straight up make Hornet lifeblood zombie lmao

[blissful canyon]

the one we meet inside the station that tells us to keep quiet?

[crisp basalt]

Yeah they are supposed to contain infection without subsuming, I guess this included lifeblood too

[blissful canyon]

what happens to her?

[vague jasper]

The Ending of Silksong is a lot more optimistic than the original Hollow knight tho

[uncut holly]

Hornet isnt void though maybe the Knight is immune to Lifeblood

[vague jasper]

Hallownest basically died

[naive crag]

hope they got rid of muckmaggots

[uncut holly]

The Bellway person at the start of the game is found dead outside the bottom exit of the first Flea Caravan spot

[maiden meteor]

There’s virtually no living people in Hallownest by the time we arrive

[uncut holly]

Theres no way to save them

[naive crag]

if not the ending is bad

[maiden meteor]

but also I don’t think entire Hallownest will die

[blissful canyon]

is she still there?

or like is the body gone

[uncut holly]

her corpse should be there

[vague jasper]

The rebuild will take a long ass time

[maiden meteor]

Mantis tribe will do just fine methinks

[naive crag]

someone could live there but it wouldnt be hallownest anymore

[uncut holly]

You can probably go see

[naive crag]

like what happened to the ac

[blissful canyon]

im gonna go check

[uncut holly]

The Mantis Tribe has been around long before Hallownest even existed, they survived its apocalypse and keep going on building more history.

[vague jasper]

It is because hornet saw hallownest die that she drove herself so insanely to save pharloom

[blissful canyon]

dirtmouth is still safe yk

[maiden meteor]

also funny that mantis tribe is basically the only resemblance of civilization we see

[nova sluice]

We don't really have a good grasp of time on HK. 100 years can be nothing for some characters

[crisp basalt]

Depends on if Shade Lord Creation had similar effect to what happened when void was summoned against GMS or not

[naive crag]

safe with 2 people and one of them is about to die of old age

wdymmmm

[whole hawk]

We dont even know the spant of time between HK and Silksong

[blissful canyon]

still a settlement tho

[uncut holly]

The Mantis Tribe are implied through statements to have been around since forever, maybe a reign of Mantis Lords even was around to see the Void civilization

[vague jasper]

Shade lord is prolly all the vessels having a sort of hivemind

[blissful canyon]

wait a minute speaking about hollow knight, myla is so similar to sherma

[maiden meteor]

Pharloom void gets to do so much havoc because GMS’ threads basically gave it highways to spread across Pharloom

[neat sandal]

cause Hornet keep chasing them away

[uncut holly]

Void normally probably wouldnt do what is in Act 3, its only really like that because GMS

[spare pendant]

lmao what? loser

[maiden meteor]

also void in Pharloom likely wasn’t under control by Knight at the time and so it did what it does

[vague jasper]

So did we stop the void in the end or did the void decide to stop itself

[uncut holly]

Void usually doesnt seek people out or corrupt their minds

[crisp basalt]

Also based on Ending, Shade Lord probably isn't in Pharloom yet to take control of Void and Calm it down

[uncut holly]

Well it can actually, with the light house

[vague jasper]

Nah the way it lashes out when you are near

[uncut holly]

But thats because they called out in unison to turn off the light, their too fragmented for any planning

[maiden meteor]

it is stated void will seek out soul

[crisp basalt]

Void attacks whatever is near but it won't go out of it's way to get near in the first place

Unless something else makes it

[uncut holly]

Void isnt really an entity in Silk Song asside from The Knight, its just doing its thing. It doesnt do any planning or scheming the whole void infection is by accident and its so bad it causes a full on apocalypse

[maiden meteor]

Usually it’s chill because it’s too far down into the abyss to reach any bugs to corrupt them

but GMS spreads it all the way up and so it probably goes wild with all the soul up there

[crisp basalt]

It doesn't seek to corrupt

It's just natural effect of it's presence

[vague jasper]

In case of pharloom you'd first die from lava before reaching abyss anyways

[crisp basalt]

And at the same time she kept resisting which probably agitated void further

[lean temple]

The Mantises are goated like that man. They outlived everyone

[maiden meteor]

I am firm believer void killed PK

[uncut holly]

I dont think the void really corrupts people it more just hollows them out

[spare pendant]

well, until void entity

[lean temple]

Void seeks soul and PK has a lot of it

[uncut holly]

Void entity has plans and schemes their different

[winter iris]

After suffering Pharloom's hostile architecture.
I gotta apologize to the Pale King.

[maiden meteor]

Oh yeah makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

Void only tries consuming soul when its nearby

[crisp basalt]

Tbf given everything he might have just let it take him

[uncut holly]

I think the Void is the most likely thing that kills Pale King. That or they committed suicide

[lean temple]

Likely yes and also because she had a hand in causing the act 3 apocalypse

[uncut holly]

Those are really the only 2 options

[nova sluice]

Void is way more honest thn any of those Pale or Higher Beings. Void is simple and direct, higher beings are full of lies and schemes.
I vote for the Void to take the lead for the next era

[crisp basalt]

It can be both

[maiden meteor]

also King did rookie mistake of placing his super secure hideout right in the ancient basin

[sinful nimbus]

Void is pretty baseless and unlikely seeing as how PK's light would repel the void

[severe siren]

Pale King was an idiot

[naive crag]

hes too big of a narcissist to kill himself

[sinful nimbus]

He'd also smoke the kingsmoulds in combat be fr

[naive crag]

exactly fuck the pale king

[uncut holly]

Yeah i dont think PK would end himself

[crisp basalt]

At least he did actually try to save his kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

Suicide is pretty plausible when you consider how sad he was at the death of his kingdom and especially children

[uncut holly]

He was also pretty practical, I mean he did alot of infanticide but besides that.

[vague jasper]

She mentioned many times that she would not let another kingdom fall under her watch, also appreciates PK, TWL and her mother on their efforts to save hallownest by the end

[uncut holly]

Besides that.

[crisp basalt]

Just made mistake

[arctic mountain]

How did pk die even, did a he choke on a void particle

Or did he trip on a saw blade

[whole hawk]

thousand geo for an arcane egg but 200 rosaries for one in pharloom?

[severe siren]

Hornet even calling her own father a fool smh what an embarrassment

[uncut holly]

Yeah yknow everyone makes mistakes, infanticide it happens to the best of us

[maiden meteor]

I think bunch of empty kingsmould armors and void particles in throne room imply King might have been ambushed by void

[whole hawk]

I apologize to the Pale King

[naive crag]

i can put the infanticide aside.

[sinful nimbus]

Well there's no accounting for bad writing

[winter iris]

Hallownest does not make you pay for benches.

[uncut holly]

I mean the Hollow Knight writing is pretty good

[winter iris]

PK did that thing right

[arctic mountain]

There's a few geo benches

[severe siren]

That is just wrong there are toll benches

[solid elk]

The Alchemist is looking pretty good with all his Lifeblood tho

[maiden meteor]

We also see void tendrils connected to White Palace Kingsmould which could also imply void invasion

[winter iris]

Oh true.

[sinful nimbus]

Or just void leaking out of the creature made of void

[vague jasper]

Pharloom is also very well written, it'll take a while before the entire picture is present

[crisp basalt]

Act 1/2 yes

Act 3 tho, uhh

[uncut holly]

Oh yeah and Pale King doesnt make you pay for the benches often. Like realistically think of that. How greedy do you have to be? In Pharloom, want a place to sit? 80 Dollars!

[winter iris]

True, at least those are permanent, there are pharloom benches that are one use per payoff..

[maiden meteor]

someone make Lifeblood apology form

[severe siren]

The underworks is such a beautifully executed commentary on workers toiling away with nothing in return

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom considers sharing rosaries to be generous and a part of faith

[spare pendant]

Only for the working class

[uncut holly]

Pharloom economy. You want a place to sit? Weary exhausted tired and acheing pilgrim? Cough up 80 dollars.

[vague jasper]

2 out of the 3 citadel lords are dead and one is bedridden

[winter iris]

Also, the sin confessor that has you to pay 25 roasaries just to tell you it is unforgivable (And you should work overtime to make amends)

[severe siren]

And you come from the other side and its just a machine

Having to pay for bench breaks

[spare pendant]

I was a very weary and tired pilgrim when I found out about those benches with 24 rosaries :(

[vague jasper]

They were also seeking immortality with silk as shown in the whiteward

[maiden meteor]

Confessors are just con artists

[uncut holly]

Pale King was a kind ruler compared to the Citadel Conductors

[sinful nimbus]

Underworks is so cool

[severe siren]

Running on the treadmill with the npc just to get 1 rosary

[uncut holly]

Or the Weavers if they set those up

[winter iris]

I knew it was automated even without wathicng from the other side, as Hornet did not say anything.

[lean temple]

Parting with your rosaries is a sign of faith or smthg. At least the fees PK puts are reasonable, and every Stag Station has benches

[spare pendant]

that's what caused the haunting i think

[sinful nimbus]

Its like the Exterior in Rain World but you have the luxury of not playing Rain World

[maiden meteor]

they’re literally Arataka Reigen of Hollow Knight

[uncut holly]

Pale King put down free benches at his train stations for the community

[maiden meteor]

“Pay us and we will expel evil spirits”

[spare pendant]

their experiments with silk caused new generations to be born with silk, making them susceptible to the haunting

[uncut holly]

Free benches, no fee. Not like those other places that make you pay to sit. Id rather just sit on the floor

[solid elk]

Being alive is what counts. That's better than a lot of NPCs in Act 3

[maiden meteor]

we got lucky Jill was hungry af and accepted rotten eggs

[vague jasper]

The citadel was basically capitalistic hell with beautiful visuals

[arctic mountain]

So what if pk genocided 3 million of his children, he had good infrastructure

[lean temple]

It is what allowed Mother Silk to control everyone yes

[maiden meteor]

So New York

[sinful nimbus]

PK commited no genocide

[uncut holly]

I mean he did have good infrastructure tho

[sinful nimbus]

He aborted multiple vessels as part of a trolley problem

[severe siren]

citadel’s even got the anti homeless architecture too

[cold axle]

no, new york's public transportation is way better

[maiden meteor]

btw what the hell is the deal with Bellways

[spare pendant]

pale king was dealing with so many diplomatic disputes too, pharloom just didn't bother

[maiden meteor]

where they got so much bells

[vague jasper]

There was also a hierarchy as the higher you had high halls and lower underworks where you basically worked to death

[uncut holly]

He has his children climb out of a pit, only to be like. Your not the one. ANOTHER! And yeet them off a cliff

Father of the year

[naive crag]

he looks like a fork you cant expect anything from him

[maiden meteor]

I mean, you still have to fight oversized mutant rat to gain access, so it’s pretty similar

[solid elk]

The Deep Docks must be getting all kinds of ores down there for the Bells

[sinful nimbus]

GMS so weak and dumb that even the PK haters have come to their senses yltsi

[vague jasper]

How are some of the underwork workers still alive tho

[severe siren]

My headcanon is bell eater was the one responsible for carving the paths themselves and was the stuff of legend, only awoken after the|| act 3 calamity||

As for why the bells themselves exist in vast quantities im lost

[lean temple]

They were very advanced in metal working because of all the natural heat and lava

[vague jasper]

They should all be dead

[uncut holly]

I mean Citadel is really really bad. They made Moorwing and trained him to hunt down people who where fleeing their jobs through scent and eat them.

[maiden meteor]

We work to have the right to work to have the right to work

[solid elk]

Technically, he raised one of his kids, which is more than Herrah did

[uncut holly]

They put their prisoners in the slab, put a bag over their head and chained them to the floor and left them to rot telling them theyll get out one day when in reality they forget about them.

[spark valve]

Imagine being so lame your own creations put you to sleep to get away from you

[uncut holly]

I mean Herrah gets a pass because they had to upkeep their part of the bargain

[vague jasper]

Will they stop working now that hornet has freed everyone

[solid elk]

Is Forge Daughter and her people not responsible for the Bells?

[maiden meteor]

tbf if Herrah didn’t go to coma Hornet wouldn’t exist in the first place

[lean temple]

Herrah loved Hornet why are we even putting her in this comparison

[vague jasper]

The workers in deep docks clearly love their work tho and don't wanna do anything except for work

[severe siren]

Silksong’s steel soul makes the steel people even weirder man

[sinful nimbus]

Vessels weren't kids smh

Steel lore is awesome

[maiden meteor]

Also Vespa and White Queen probably were pretty good step moms

[whole hawk]

City of Iron lore goes crazy

[uncut holly]

Forge Daughter makes the bells, although the Deep Docks dont seem to nearly have such a strict runner defense mechanism as Greymoor or the Sinners Road

[spark valve]

Knockoff Grimm troupe now for some reason

[sinful nimbus]

Well as awesome as void involved stuff can be

[whole hawk]

I hope the inevitable steel assassin DLC lets us visit it or even catch a glimpse of the place

[lean temple]

I gotta take in the new Steel lore man

[solid elk]

We see the PK take fondness to the Pure Vessel in the White Palace, so he had some attachment

[spark valve]

City of steel update is plausibly happening

[lean temple]

Well Hornet does know of the Masters from the few things I've seen

[maiden meteor]

Where would they run, there’s only lava and beastfly

[spark valve]

Presumably they’ll like have a reason for doing what they do

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but judging his character based on his parenting is kinda flawed

[uncut holly]

Yeah but Pale King made his son to die. And his son failed because either he wasnt hollow or he wanted to make his dad proud

[sullen crown]

On the topic of steel soul I need to start another attempt at it.

[vague jasper]

Hopefully it's not steelsoul mode exclusive

[solid elk]

FUCK, I have to beat Steelsoul to learn about Sharpe and the rest?

[spare pendant]

Did news come out or is this based on what we alr know

[severe siren]

Steel assassins are basically guaranteed to come in a content update as Shapre specifically was stated as a major rival and is a backer character which are required to make it into the game

[olive umbra]

What’s that?

[lean temple]

I consider just modding it to learn the new lore

[spark valve]

Based on what’s in game

[solid elk]

What if I'm to bad at the game to beat Steelsoul? Is the lore early on in Act 1?

[severe siren]

No the steel assassins are not even in steel soul

[sinful nimbus]

Makes me wonder if it will be a separate act because of MM's dialogue

[whole hawk]

It's probably going to be Sharpe and his crew raiding Pharloom in Act 3

[spark valve]

Large amounts of steel soul exclusive content is stupid and lame and bad

[olive umbra]

They should bring it back

[uncut holly]

Only Steel Seer Zi is in steel soul and the Servant runaway

[winter iris]

Ah yes, raiding a place in a middle of a local apocalypse.

[severe siren]

Act 4 - City of Steel

[lean temple]

So yeah ig the Steel content isn't ready yet

[uncut holly]

Steel Soul content tells us alot about the City of Steel and the origin of Steel Bugs, Steel Bugs always seem to be related to the Steel Soul mode

[naive crag]

what is there to raid when everythings fucked up and destroyed

[sullen crown]

God forbid bringing an entirely new type of enemy during the endgame where everything does 2 masks of damage already.

[whole hawk]

Yeah why not. They detected the void so they came running.

[maiden meteor]

Btw what happens to silkeaters

[severe siren]

Act 4, rebuilding Pharloom with lace and the game letting Hornet venture outside Pharloom past the wastes

[whole hawk]

And they'll stunble on Hornet and thay's when the DLC properly statts