sk-lore

[modern bay]

Midwife, that's right

[midnight vault]

Widow was a weaver but their mask was taken away

[terse warren]

The relic ordinance you get that talks about the "Kingdom of White Wyrm"

[craggy smelt]

Joni's rest seems to be turning into another 'Source' of lifeblood, like what happened with Zylotol

[small cave]

I read it and disagree. If we just meld their kagic with the void, why didn't we do it the first time we receive the spell? Likex clearly them giving a void upgrade was foreshadowing, in hindsight.

[limpid summit]

The Devouts, Midwife, Deeplings and presumably the old royal caste of Deepnest are spiders born in Hallownest

[restive jolt]

Was gonna say this

[teal shell]

is it impossible for herrah to have came from the surface/outlands which is why she has a more beastly and brutish appearance helping her survive in a dangerous environment

[foggy fractal]

yeah and that's explicitly said
we don't have such a statement for Herrah

[terse warren]

"I read it and disagree" you can't disagree because it's literally dialogue in game

[restive jolt]

Y'all I lost it when I beat lace

[limpid summit]

Ah, you’re right

[restive jolt]

Her being made of silk? I cannot wait to like see the lore behind that

[polar yacht]

Does anyone have a lore document? I'm really curious about state of the world pre Citadel and the founding of the Citadel.

[small cave]

It is opinion of a guy who is unaware his whole family is dead, while "some snail shamans give void upgrades" flows nicely into Silksong.

[limpid summit]

I still think Herrah was made a Weaver by the Weavers in order to have a shot at a powerful Weaver child

[foggy fractal]

That scream? Ooohh, distorted in such a way... It's not within the skills of us snails to do such a thing.
Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look.

heres the exact dialogue btw

[craggy smelt]

as well all know, NPCs are omniscient gods who are never wrong about anything, except for White Lady

[limpid summit]

I don’t like the idea of Herrah just straight up being a Weaver

[polar yacht]

I've got a general vague idea

[green yoke]

It's so rad. Was not expecting to fight a literal homunculus

[foggy fractal]

from when you get abyss shriek

[limpid summit]

No one’s written anything like that yet

[teal shell]

being ignored rip

[terse warren]

A guy who is pretty damn good at magic

Not knowing of the death of a family member doesn't mean that you suddenly suck ass at your job

[junior galleon]

why don't the pilgrims arrive at Pharloom from the top so the path to the citadel is easier? Are they stupid?

[sinful nimbus]

"He doesn't know his family is dead therefore he clearly knows nothing about the very thing he is commenting on"

[craggy smelt]

in light of SS lore that shows snail shamans can use soul magic to summon the void, those instances in the first game might be them doing just that
crossroads shaman doesn't recognize void magic when TK gets some from the Abyss, but that could just mean that crossroads shaman wasn't taught void magic, or Hallownest shamans didn't practice it widely
crossroads shaman isn't aware of everything his relatives do - he doesn't even know they're all dead

[olive glen]

I hope we find out in that update

[small cave]

I am aware of this dialogue. It is like Blood lore debates in Deltarune fandom, things simplify if you assume 1 character is wrong.

[restive jolt]

Right??? And the music thing being this game's dream nail essentially is so freaking cool

[limpid summit]

Outlands what do you mean

Like she was turned into a weaver from a giant tough bug?

[timber pond]

It was probably banned before it got to the point of becoming Cancer. Hornet also states that its similar to the radiance affliction, implying that the higher being we see when we get lifeblood core might also want to propegate

[green yoke]

I have the Needolin melody stuck in my head ngl

[sinful nimbus]

The fact that you can handwave it away with an explanation doesn't change the fact that they retroactively changed a detail of the lore

[restive jolt]

Yeah but like they freaking SING it's so cool

[green yoke]

Mhm mhm very cool very rad

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet says she saw the same deal as in wormways in Hallownest

[restive jolt]

I'm so glad our protagonist CAN TALK THIS TIME

[sinful nimbus]

This is of course not actually true in the first game

[craggy smelt]

if Herrah was a full weaver, would she have had to be from the first generation created directly by Silk?
all weavers seem to be female, so any subsequent generations would only be part weaver

[midnight vault]

Its still weird that the higher being in the core wants to hang around the Void

[restive jolt]

Although I do find it interesting that they added a whole new blue life giving substance instead of lifeblood

[polar yacht]

I am well studied in many universe's lores and I can say that the retcons from hollow knight to silksong while some of them sting really aren't that bad in comparison to some I've seen

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying there’s nothing that indicates that was the case

[green yoke]

I love the implication of the ||Diving Bell in Deep Docks. Who the hell was trying to visit the Abyss before us?||

[teal shell]

no like she was a weaver but raised in an area where she needed to be more beastly and brutish to survive causing her appearance to match such scenario, especially since bugs in basically non civilised areas cant trult
communicate and are moreanimalistic”

[restive jolt]

Unless other places simply use different dialects, but idk feels weird

[limpid summit]

Hornet is a Weaver in half part which assumes Herrah is a full Weaver and they can’t have kids with one another

[teal shell]

this is cope stuff but im trying to make apples out of eggs here

[limpid summit]

That’s ridiculous

[small cave]

Doesn't she more mean that it is similar to Radiance? Which is why she also says she could be seeing connections that aren't there.

[midnight vault]

I mean maybe stuff spread a bit more intensely after the first game since it didnt have to compete with the radiance

[modern bay]

It depends on how weavers are made in the first place I think

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[craggy smelt]

the original weavers came from uplifted pharlids

[sinful nimbus]

No

[modern bay]

If Grandmother Silk can weave Weavers, then they might be able to technically make more somehow right?

[sinful nimbus]

She also compares it to the infection but I'm talking about a different piece of text

[foggy fractal]

I think there are other arguments one could make without having to make one character wrong
I was arguing like a day or two ago that the HK snail shamans just aren't aware of the ones in SS which makes his statement still correct, just with the context that he doesn't know about his whole kind which I think is believable

[craggy smelt]

true, she might not have made just one batch

[limpid summit]

I see where you’re coming from but like evolution doesn’t happen like that in organisms alone

[timber pond]

She said similar not same

[quartz flicker]

Silksong takes place after Hollow Knight, so it's plausible that after the Radiance was consumed by the Void the Snail Shamans were like "oh shit there's this immense well of power strong enough to kill a Higher Being we need to look into this".

[night falcon]

I dont get it is this game a sequel or a prequel?

[craggy smelt]

sequel

[teal shell]

sequel has to be

[green yoke]

Sequel

[limpid summit]

Technically we know First Sinner did the others could have been other bugs
Wait yak

[sinful nimbus]

Because its a different creature being plasmified yes but the fact is she directly correlates it with the spread of Lifeblood so like
Plasmification is clearly what she's talking about

[limpid summit]

Is there a Silksong enemy that looks sort of like a smaller Herrah/Hornet with the same type of horns

[craggy smelt]

my god

[limpid summit]

Cause if there is we’d know Herrah was a transformed Weaver

[modern bay]

And if the beast lived that long, I wonder if it's simply possible to make an entire colony that doesn't die of old age and is so powerful they can't be killed by everyday beings in the area

[rustic holly]

sequel
hornet comments on 'having experience that gods can be killed'

[teal shell]

herrah just invested in some good plastic surgery

[foggy fractal]

I doubt they would've been there in Hallownest and then traveled all the way back to Pharloom
not saying SS being a sequel doesn't help the argument it makes it more plausible me thinks

[quartz flicker]

again Herrah has 8 legs, and we know Weavers can have their masks removed

[craggy smelt]

pharlid divers, they're an even bigger pain in the ass

[sinful nimbus]

This is handwaving

[foggy fractal]

sequel true ending confirms it

also a bunch of other things I think

[modern bay]

I need to play hollow knight again so I can get the lore straight man idk what's true and what isn't

[terse warren]

"In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion." Plasmidas Journal Entry

[sweet tulip]

What are spoiler rules here? Do I need to spoiler endgame stuff?

[foggy fractal]

no

[green yoke]

Nah

[limpid summit]

No

[foggy fractal]

all spoilers allowed

[teal shell]

could herrahs mask being removed and her body being twisted by funky wyrm baby then getting into the dreamer stuff be why she looks so diff

[quartz flicker]

People in Pharloon learned about Hornet's existence. Not hard to believe that the Snail Shamans can communicate across kingdoms.

[sinful nimbus]

Also its unlikely because apparently the entire species is known to have an inclination towards void not one tribe of them in a specific region experimenting with it after someone else did

[teal shell]

have we considered the hallownest snail shamans are fucking stupid

[limpid summit]

I almost said Lurien looks pretty normal and then I read the rest

[midnight vault]

Good point

[small cave]

This implies this only got that bad in Deepnest, though.

[timber pond]

Some of the nedolin diolouge when you play low at the scientists corpse imply that he's comuning with something and becoming an origin point for it.
Mabye the lifeblood in hallownest never got to the point of plasmification because it was banned before the bugs using it could make it reach that point.

[sweet tulip]

Is First Sinner related to Lace, "She called us daughters... She called us divine... She lied..." is the ending dialogue with her iirc

[limpid summit]

Widow has the same body type as the other Weavers at least

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet states that bugs in Hallownest were plasmified so no.

[limpid summit]

First Sinner refers to Grand Mother Silk with this dialogue

[foggy fractal]

I'm not sure if their group is big enough for that but maybe ?

[green yoke]

Not as dumb as the Pharloom ones
who the hell worships void

Like bruh

It's not listening

[terse warren]

Yeah except we still don't see any of the sort in HK

And again, Lifeblood cocoons are literally everywhere, so everyone should be infected by lifeblood

[limpid summit]

Lace is also GMS’s “daughter” like the weavers so sort of

[craggy smelt]

the lifeblood thing is really minor to me
we never saw the worst symptoms because it never flourished and spread as freely in Hallownest, not that we saw at least
Hornet apparently saw it at some time in the past
maybe it was considered taboo because it was frowned upon by higher authorities for this very reason, we just never got the full story

[midnight vault]

It got pretty bad in the howling cliffs ngl

[teal shell]

have we also considered that hornet had ran into lifeblood stuff that the knight never stumbled apon

[foggy fractal]

well both are creations of GMS but thats about it

[limpid summit]

The lie may have been she wanted her own daughter so she forsook the weavers

[timber pond]

Then the pale king must have stopped right as it started because he knew its origin, another being within the dream.

[terse warren]

Cocoons all over the Kingdom is pretty good spreading, as well Joni's grave not having any deformed monsters

[small cave]

Not if Radiance suppresses that shit actively. She is actively hunting down the vessels in the game too.

[craggy smelt]

Zango and Zylotol were spreading it faster than it normally would have

[sinful nimbus]

"Have you considered that there's a contrived unlikely explanation that this retcon can be consistent with"
Yeah that's.... how retconning stuff works

[sweet tulip]

Ok, also what sin in the First Sinner guilty of? Rage?

[terse warren]

#sk-lore message

[modern bay]

Wait, no, Herrah had to be a Weaver; she was the queen of the Weavers which was a spider colony that moved in xxxx years ago, and she required an heir to fill her place once she became a Dreamer and was permanently laid to rest in order to seal the Hollow Knight. I don't think that anything was retconned.

[craggy smelt]

I don't think there's any creatures in Joni's grave to deform
not the most infested part, anyway

[terse warren]

"The one who raged against the silken lie"

[teal shell]

why didnt hornet call in the shadelord once she found out about gms, is she fucking stupid

[midnight vault]

That still doesnt explain how it seeped into the creatures. Unless it's normal spread is just the vines and he was actually forcefully injecting it into the creatures

[rustic holly]

her prison states it is 'apostasy', presumably turning against GMS after the creation of lace

[quartz flicker]

I wonder if all Weavers are regarded as "Beasts" in Hallownest, and Herrah is just the only one whose name we know,

[timber pond]

That isn't a bad thing, its just expanding on a prior idea

[limpid summit]

Well

[terse warren]

It gets into the creatures by proximity it seems

[limpid summit]

I know you’re joking but do you want my guess

[foggy fractal]

no idea
other people can probably piece it together tho !

[teal shell]

i dont think hornet can just call up the shadelord

[craggy smelt]

creatures might start consuming it when it beomes widespread enough
there are many cocoons in Hallownest, but each one is isolated, with not much growth extending from them
they aren't spreading as completely as they do in the Wormways
(I wish there'd been some line from Zylotol about him experimenting on it, maybe he did something to mess up its growth rate with alchemy)

[terse warren]

If to expand a previous idea you have to change established details of it then it isn't a good thing

[limpid summit]

Well true

[modern bay]

I think beast might be taken too literally and not as a descriptor of what others perceive the Weavers to be.

[limpid summit]

But even beyond that

[sweet tulip]

Is it possible the First Sinner turned against gms first, then she caged the first sinner, and made Lace as a new attempt at a child?

[limpid summit]

“Common beast” would be stupid to say with everything the Weavers are shown to do even in HK

Midwife holds them in very high regard

[sinful nimbus]

Contrived unlikely explanations are bad writing actually

So is everything about Lifeblood/Void in Silksong even if it wasn't a retcon. I'd be a lot more willing to forgive them for retconning things if they did something cool or interesting with them but no we got Infection number 3 & 4 instead

[craggy smelt]

mushrooms are idiots

[teal shell]

shoutout mr mushroom

[quartz flicker]

Midwife is weirdly intelligent for how bitey she is

[limpid summit]

They at least understand the caste system

[craggy smelt]

except him

[limpid summit]

All you need is 1 smart mushroom then they’re all smart

[foggy fractal]

hey man ! not cool.

[quartz flicker]

excuse me it's Mister

[teal shell]

mushrooms are a hive mind they are all smart

[limpid summit]

Midwife is one of the smartest characters in the game yeah

[modern bay]

The common beast came from the perspective of the Mushroom kingdom, and they were constantly at odds with the Weaver's nest.

[sinful nimbus]

"Common beast" refers to her lack of royal bloodline not her species. She's being contrasted with her late royal husband

[craggy smelt]

their hivemind is an idiot

[limpid summit]

Her and Bardoon are so hyperintelligent that they read our dream nail

[teal shell]

but mister mushroom isnt🤔

[foggy fractal]

never got to see who this husband is btw

[modern bay]

This as well, the royal bloodline is what's being referred to because it's DIRECTLY contrasted with the Pale King's position

[craggy smelt]

no, mister mushroom is very wise

[polar yacht]

Does anyone understand the founding of the citadel?

Who were the key players? Was it founded before silk was used to extend life or because of it?

[sinful nimbus]

Dead spider

[sweet tulip]

Also does silksong happen after godhome no flower ending or something else?

[limpid summit]

Godhome ending, we don’t know which ending

[teal shell]

oh no canon ending talk

[modern bay]

... Yes we did. It's Pale King

[sinful nimbus]

Its not about PK its the dead king of deepnest

[limpid summit]

Flower no flower we don’t know

[timber pond]

Most of these details are so minor that they don't really change much. We still don't (and will probably never) have a direct sequence of events. I could interpret these outcomes anyway if silksong never came out.

[teal shell]

ending talk ending talk ending talk

[modern bay]

Ohhhh

[foggy fractal]

not PK a partner Herrah had before

[midnight vault]

Something to do with the weaver's previous rule and the architect

[sweet tulip]

Whiteward is part of the citadel, and they began using silk there afaik, so it would make sense it predates the usage of silk

[modern bay]

My bad my bad

[quartz flicker]

It happens after all the Vessels defeat the Radiance

[limpid summit]

Weavers founded the Citadel to encase GMS after they forsook her. Citadel caste moved in, usurped the Weavers

[terse warren]

I don't think anyone would've ever guessed that lifeblood was actually just the infection but blue without Silksong giving the idea, given how tame it is in HK

[teal shell]

its most likely some form of inbetween of dream no more and embrace the void

[rustic holly]

not impossible

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel was built by the weavers to keep Grandmother Silk asleep with song
It was overtaken by the Conductors eventually who kept her asleep but eventually started experimenting with the silk to extend life

[foggy fractal]

if going by SS true ending
has to be either dnm or etv

[limpid summit]

Silksong takes place after embrace the void

[teal shell]

me personally i still think its etv but thats cus im him

[modern bay]

It's not necessarily tame, it's in various nooks and crannies throughout Hollow Knight, no?

[sinful nimbus]

Doing absolutely nothing yeah

[limpid summit]

From a canon standpoint, Hornet asserts in Steel Soul that “no one” (not “no bug”) can control the void, which makes more sense if etv happened and she has no metric for how Rad was defeated

[terse warren]

It's tame because it doesn't transform creatures into Eldritch aberrations

[sweet tulip]

Also how many endings are there, and does cursed ending give any important info?

[timber pond]

Void probably did this in hallownest as it reaches as far as the city of tears lower elevator shaft. Pale king probably stoped it by sealing it in the white palace in some way.

[quartz flicker]

The Plasmium experiments weren't natural

[limpid summit]

From a meta standpoint though this isn’t evidence like seriously why would they make a Hornet cutscene after a specific ending if it didn’t lead into her obviously sequel game

[midnight vault]

Whatever the tree thing is takes over thats about all the info lol

[teal shell]

if etv is canon to hornets knowledge the infection just kinda ended, thk woke up and tk is just gone

[modern bay]

Yeah that makes sense. I wonder if they have nothing weak to them in Hallownest, but that wouldn't necessarily make sense.

[terse warren]

The Worms weren't experimented on

Also Hornet says she saw similar things in Deepnest

[timber pond]

It isn't though. It gets in through physical means and is symbiotic with the body and has nothing to do with dreams or the mind

[foggy fractal]

how many endings to silksong ?
I think there are 5 ?

[modern bay]

That's true

[limpid summit]

Hornet saw lifeblood all throughout hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

"There are void particles in the air therefore void acts like an infection" is complete nonsense

Void behaves in a very particular way in SS because of Grand Mother Silk lashing out and void consuming her silk

[timber pond]

Unlike the infection, its cracked cocaine

[teal shell]

id like to remind us all that there is a weird abyssal giant lifeblood creature that even reaches godhome

[terse warren]

Ah yes the wonderful drug that makes my body double its natural size and also forces me to be stuck into a ceiling whereas before I could just walk

[amber bridge]

damn forgot abt that thing. no follow up?

[sweet tulip]

normal, cursed, true, is there true cursed / failed normal (bind while entering void) or some more?

[teal shell]

not that i know of

[sweet tulip]

oh xd

[teal shell]

i think doubling it down and having the creature in godhome gives it some significance in some way

[timber pond]

Right, so it conforms to whatever power is influencing it. We don't know what power it comuned with pre hallownests fall to make it rise if it did indeed.

[sinful nimbus]

There's no real reason to believe it rising is a result of anything abnormal

[midnight vault]

Average Radiance fan

[sinful nimbus]

Void keeps receding deeper and deeper and there's some leftover void in the air

[timber pond]

Yes but its alluring to the average bug because it has health benefits seemingly, but overuse will create cancer

[sweet tulip]

What is the slab? A prison? The First Sinner is directly related to gms, and is "The First of the First" so it began with them, but was it used for rebels only, or for thiefs and those alike too?

[midnight vault]

yeah to our knowledge without an outside factor like the siblings or silk the void kinda just chills as black goop

[limpid summit]

The Slab is a prison for enemies of the Citadel, but also for the flies

[teal shell]

lore implications of hornet being stupid

[limpid summit]

They defied the Citadel’s caste and were forced to man the prison

[timber pond]

Depends. Mabye we will get more details if we get a DLC going back to the Steel City, as it seems they use void like pharloom uses silk 😂

[modern bay]

The slab is a prison, yes.

[worn flicker]

I hope that team cherry gives us more content regarding the steel souls in a dlc

Also steel assasins

[limpid summit]

I’d bet on it

[vernal hawk]

Coral forest was just scrapped right

[sinful nimbus]

It seems the steel city is opposed to using void seeing as how they jumped a bug for even touching it

[teal shell]

seemingly so yeah

[limpid summit]

Probably

[midnight vault]

Turned Khan's tower

[limpid summit]

Maybe it’s just like common bugs using it

[timber pond]

There is a lore tablet mentioning the steel city is where hornet gets captured

[modern bay]

It could potentially be implemented later, but I'm not sure.

[limpid summit]

Jinn says void heart is like her masters anyway

[quartz flicker]

and also gets really pissed if you get too close

[teal shell]

cod zombies bo4 blood of the dead easter egg to access coral forest

[modern bay]

I was so excited about Coral Forest, as well.

[vernal hawk]

Khans tower really just feels like they made all the enemies for forest then had nowhere to put them so they dumped them there

[timber pond]

Are the steel assassins in steel soul mode?

[sinful nimbus]

Coral Forest was what I was looking forward to the most 😔

[worn flicker]

Whuh

[modern bay]

I agree that it felt kind of lackluster, especially compared to the other two. I was very sad when fighting Khan himself, as well.

[sinful nimbus]

Steel Assassins are just cut

[quartz flicker]

Coral Tower has enough enemies for at least two areas lmao

[modern bay]

Literally same.

[midnight vault]

I do wish that the needolin had a small area like Verdania where you got to explore a small bit of pre-sandy steps

[worn flicker]

I believe they were scrappes

[timber pond]

They must be saving them then

[teal shell]

godhome 2 where its all pink instead of bronze

[sweet tulip]

What does the flower do with void? Repel it, or destroy it?

[worn flicker]

Godhome but its only a savage beastfly duo fight

[quartz flicker]

Team Cherry should just have a mode where the Coral Tower enemies are placed around the world

[teal shell]

thats called peakhome

[sinful nimbus]

Its my hope in TC's next game they just put everything in the overworld since it opens up more level design opportunities.

Kinda like if you had Verdania outside a dream and now you could connect it to Moss Grotto and some other areas

[midnight vault]

I hope if they do another Godseeker they do an overhaul for Khan, Clover Princes, and maybe a duo fight against the Pinstress and Seamstress

[worn flicker]

Isnt this one refering to widow

[limpid summit]

Technically it’s some random weaver but yes they went to steel city

[worn flicker]

With the staked to service part

[quartz flicker]

what if these were all just foreshadowing for the DLC

[limpid summit]

Staked to service I guess I didn’t think of it like that

It sounds figurative, like the Steel Masters are slavers

They staked the weaver to service

[timber pond]

Widows is a full weaver i thought. Thats what hornet says in the journal at least

[limpid summit]

Also true

[neat sandal]

How about this one

[limpid summit]

Have I got some news for you

First sinner cutscene has her turn from a Pharlid

[worn flicker]

I believe she says that she looks like a weaver, might check in a bit, but it would fit in regarding the staked to service part with widow literally having 2 needles in her spine

[humble iron]

He's got 235/235 I think he knows lol

[timber pond]

She says she's a weaver with her mask/head removed

[humble iron]

She does have the physique of a full weaver asw

[limpid summit]

Yes Widow is a full Weaver

[timber pond]

Anyway it dosent matter, it confirms the steel city exists and it could be future content for a DLC or a game or somethin

[limpid summit]

Staked to service doesn’t mean that exactly she doesn’t even have stakes in her

[humble iron]

City of steel hypes me up so much, I wanna know what it looks like

[timber pond]

They must use void

[quartz flicker]

remember these guys

[timber pond]

Because Jinn states the masters of it are like Little ghost

[terse warren]

Actually Steel person in Steel Soul says that using Void is a sin punishable by death

[timber pond]

Steel soul in silksong?

[terse warren]

When their helper uses void they say that they will be cashed till the end of the world and killed

[worn flicker]

Yup

[meager drum]

could weavers be sexual dimorphism and the same species as the spiders?

[humble iron]

Unless you're the master of the city of of steel I imagine

[terse warren]

They're all women

[humble iron]

do we even know of any male weaver

[sinful nimbus]

WOKE

They made the smartest and strongest spiders FEMALES 😔

[meager drum]

my only lore hole is midwife and she doesnt look like either

[sacred heath]

okay so
what the fuck is up with Greyroot

[timber pond]

Perhaps the lower cast cannot use it. Steel assassins sharpe (the cut content) seems to be kind of a wingsmold. Perhaps the "Masters" of the Steel city claim monopoly on its use

[humble iron]

Weaver can probably look like plenty of things, based on the bug that GMS decided to turn into a weaver

Unless she can only turn pharlids into weavers

[midnight vault]

Real life lore accurate

[plain coral]

Rq what does the ||act 3 ending|| mean ?

[humble iron]

That seems to be the case tbh

[sinful nimbus]

By interacting with the void the vassal is considered "tarnished" so I doubt the higher ups can use void by the logic of their own system

[flat kernel]

Silksong just confirmed that the first ending of hollow knight is not canon

I always knew it

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe doesn't seem to be a wingsmould or like one at all

[humble iron]

No the first ending of hollow knight is canon. It's just not canon in silksong

[quartz flicker]

something fucky

[flat kernel]

?

[sinful nimbus]

Same thing basically

[modern bay]

I think this makes the most sense; it seemed like Team Cherry really wanted to step away from "all Weavers look the same" by making several Weavers look different from one-another and function relatively differently, as well.

[humble iron]

he has a void tendril attack

[sinful nimbus]

All weavers look similar except for Herrah

[sinful nimbus]

No he doesn't, black doesn't mean void

[humble iron]

and midwife

[sacred heath]

Oh damn wait they cut the assassins?

[timber pond]

He does have a animation that makes him use his nose as a void tendrils whip

[sinful nimbus]

Not a weaver?

[humble iron]

It's very similar to void, if you prefer

[sinful nimbus]

In the sense that its black yeah

Hornet's hand is also black is that a void attack

[timber pond]

Yes but like the first of bones became the marrow and deep docks in this game, he might appear in DLC or another game

[quartz flicker]

zote is clearly void

[midnight vault]

Hornet void confirmed???????

[humble iron]

In the sense that it makes sense, the tendril attack has a pattern similar to the void tendril we see and the master of the city of steel are known for their mastery of void

[marble tartan]

I didn’t know that beating the memory areas unlocked the journal entries, so I completed them manually

[sinful nimbus]

Black smear frames aren't exclusive to the void

Hornet and especially Pale Lurker have them as well

[quartz flicker]

huh

[humble iron]

I am not saying it is the absolute truth

[sacred heath]

i do hope he appears in dlc
do any of the other assassins appear? are they steel-soul exclusive?

[sinful nimbus]

And the city of steel is actively against using void

[humble iron]

I'm saying it's likely

[modern bay]

Zote has not been confirmed to be void

[sinful nimbus]

They will kill you if you use void which doesn't track if they also make void robots

[quartz flicker]

i was joking

[flat kernel]

I think silksong only has 1 true ending, a new great chunk of the game just for a different ending doesn't seem like an accident

[modern bay]

Oh mb

[humble iron]

It does if they have an elitist system where only the higher caste may use void

[timber pond]

There is a steel soul exclusive quest i guess idk details haven't done it lol

But I don't think they are assasins

[modern bay]

I highly doubt this considering Team Cherry's stance on endings

[sinful nimbus]

This is unsubstantiated. You said that they were "known for their mastery of void" and yet this seems like complete speculation

[sacred heath]

what else is steel soul exclusive?

[flat kernel]

Also the 2nd "ending" of silksong has no TC message, just credits

[sinful nimbus]

OK but they clearly retconned what they said there

[flat kernel]

Could be a bug tho

[sinful nimbus]

"We'll try to account for [all endings] in future Hollow Knight content"

[flat kernel]

Yeah, the first ending of hollow knight just can't be canon in silksong

[timber pond]

Idk The hollow knight isn't there in the sister of the void ending. Meaning he still retains his shell soemwhere

[modern bay]

They did not, they made a game based off of one ending, that does not mean they retconned it necessarily

[sinful nimbus]

.

[modern bay]

Okay, well THAT is retconned

[timber pond]

It's a quest with an NPC and a bossfight supposedly

[modern bay]

But I still think they are wanting to make all of them open to interpretation to players

[left dune]

Is Silksong a prequel or sequel now that it's out? From the dialogue and stuff in the game it sounded like and seemed like a sequel maybe??

[sinful nimbus]

Their logic for all endings being canon is that they wanted to respect player choice and that it won't be invalidated in future HK content but they clearly don't adhere to that logic anymore

[modern bay]

Sequel

[polar latch]

guys quick what triggers that secret in haunted bellhart where hornet gets trapped in the threads im trying to get a friend to experience it

[flat kernel]

Sequel

[quartz flicker]

Him not appearing on screen =/= him not also being in the Void

[left dune]

Is every HK ending still canon then?

[sinful nimbus]

No

[flat kernel]

Hornet almost never mentions an event from the previous game tho

[timber pond]

It is 1000% asequel don't get spoiled here if you havent

[flat kernel]

She only says that she knows what the void is

[flat kernel]

No

[left dune]

I've played through it already I just wasn't sure

[timber pond]

Nope

[quartz flicker]

she mentions a hell of a lot from her past in Hallownest

[modern bay]

If it's taken as "this is one ending's path" then that's not necessarily true, but I'm not sure what they're thinking.

[plain coral]

Which end is canon?

[quartz flicker]

in the Journal

[timber pond]

Seems like godmaster is cannon

[modern bay]

Likely the Godhome one

[left dune]

Is HK true ending canon or godmaster I know its either or

[flat kernel]

Only dream no more and embrace the void + flower variation can be canon

[sinful nimbus]

Dream No More/Embrace the Void can both be canon

[quartz flicker]

no, not to Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Its left ambiguous as to which one idk why people have singled onto Embrace the Void

[timber pond]

The Hollow knight isn't a shade within the void so it must be Godmasters ending

[craggy smelt]

because Shadelord shows up at all

[plain coral]

And in silksong? Finished the game and wanna know

[sinful nimbus]

So does void given form

[modern bay]

Because you see the giant void creature from Godhome that The Knight turns into

[limpid summit]

IMO it’s not even about VGFocus though like from a meta standpoint why even show it if EtV isn’t canon

[rocky smelt]

Not really cuz the hollow knights shade would be there if it was dream no more and the shadelord wouldn't

[modern bay]

Not sure if they decide a canon end for Silksong

[limpid summit]

After Summoned Savior (Steel Soul) Hornet says no one has controlled the void

[sinful nimbus]

THK's shade doesn't specifically need to be there why would that be the case

[limpid summit]

Sorry, no one not no bug

[flat kernel]

Silksong true ending shows the shade lord for 1 second

[sinful nimbus]

[limpid summit]

No star listen

[sinful nimbus]

F tier writing

[quartz flicker]

The Knight is in their form from Dream No More.

[limpid summit]

After DnM she’d be able to guess what happened

Etv everything happens far away she has no idea what happened

[rocky smelt]

Because its there in the dream no more ending

[limpid summit]

Also another meta point why even have the THK cutscene if that’s not what they’re following considering we know the games a sequel but that doesn’t matter

Point is

[sinful nimbus]

She probably would still know - She's the one who even suggests void heart in the first place

[muted lantern]

Well she did dream it, and she seems somewhat aware in the dream realm

[plain coral]

Bcs i just finished act 3 and all and saw ||the knight helping hornet|| after that the ||white flower disappeared|| so just wanted to know if this was the canon end or if it's another one

[modern bay]

Seems a little odd for them to show something specifically associated with another thing from Hollow Knight and not have it be that, but it's true it could just be another one entirely.

[sinful nimbus]

Why does it specifically need to be here though

[limpid summit]

I don’t know why they repeatedly assert that, not talking about it doesn’t take anything away

[timber pond]

It implies that the yollow knight still retains his shell and has nlt returned to the void

[rocky smelt]

Why wouldn't it be

[sinful nimbus]

No it doesn't it just means its shade didn't show up to the party

[limpid summit]

Yeah but she only talks about mastering the void yourself when you approach her with VH

[plain coral]

He is still in the void

[modern bay]

Yeah, it seems like that's one of the "good endings" you can get

[quartz flicker]

where

[limpid summit]

While you fight her cause your dreams intersect
It’s not like she spectates everything that happens in Godhomr

[timber pond]

Ok but every other shade did? Yeah unlikely

[plain coral]

Maybe nun of them is and we have to wait like the other game to get the real end 🤷

[sinful nimbus]

That means she can probably sense it
Also its well known that only united void can kill The Radiance so idk why she wouldn't be able to infer what happened

[limpid summit]

If THK’s shade was there it likely would have been in focus it was a creative choice not to show THK’s shade

[sinful nimbus]

It is not implied that every shade shows up in that cutscene?

[quartz flicker]

it could have also just been behind some other ones

[limpid summit]

A lot of the points pointing toward EtV are meta (not bad meta but not hard canon) but Summoned Savior is fairly explicit

[muted lantern]

Considering God seeker is imprisoned in hallownest it could be possible she put things together afterwards, especially if she knew about who was locked in that coffin

[sinful nimbus]

It was also a creative choice to show TK's form in Dream No More

[modern bay]

Okay, but what motivation do the shades have to save Hornet?

[limpid summit]

Why would she have any idea

[timber pond]

The hollow knights shade is very distinctive because he's larger. If i don't see him he's not there.

[limpid summit]

Yeah, as well as VGFocus

[sinful nimbus]

They are under the control of TK

[sacred heath]

in that ending
does Hornet say that nobody has mastered the void or that no bug has

[quartz flicker]

The Knight specifically knows her

[muted lantern]

She seems aware of a vast number of things in hallownest, an ancient improsoned being is probably one of them

[modern bay]

Is that explicitly stated somewhere or is it just assumed by the community

[foggy fractal]

without another game or TC confirmation there doesn't seem to be a cannon ending to Silksong yet
Silksong does cannonize dnm or etv if we're going by Silksong's "true" ending though

[sinful nimbus]

So the fact that both forms exclusive to their respective endings are shown means its meant to be ambiguous

[limpid summit]

The point of showing VGForm was to shut up people who thought TK became a crazy void monster

[sinful nimbus]

Void Heart

[limpid summit]

TK can become VGForm whenever

Godseeker isn’t ancient

[sacred heath]

team cherry give me a lifeblood beast bossfight and my life is yours

[limpid summit]

VGForm is VGFocus

[timber pond]

I would have agreed if the hollow knights shade shows up at all. But he's absent

[limpid summit]

Well other way around

[sinful nimbus]

It could also become VGFocus whenever

Its all cosmetic

[rocky smelt]

Yeah, no reason why the knight isn't able to change forms as a pure void being.

[plain coral]

That's what I thought we will have to wait the dlcs to get the real ending

[sinful nimbus]

Because if it was present it would not be ambiguous?

THK's shade not showing up is necessary to leave it up in the air

[limpid summit]

If you consider the appearance of VGForm to be indicative of DNM (meta), you have to consider the lack of THK and appearance of VGFocus

[sinful nimbus]

THK not showing up maintains the ambiguity

[timber pond]

If he were present the the ending would be ambiguous in my eyes. Because in DNM he does return to the void and in ETV he dosent

[limpid summit]

Regardless the only actual lore point we have is that Hornet writes and says that no one controls the void

[sinful nimbus]

That's probably just bad writing

[timber pond]

So it isn't ambiguous

[modern bay]

I'm not arguing against it not being the same shade, just wondering what we have to substantiate it only being under The Knight's control and not The Knight itself. I looked into Void Heart and it's true that it gives The Knight control over the void, but is it control over the entirety of the void, or does it have some sort of area of power?

[terse warren]

If THK were present it would have to be DnM

[sacred heath]

i hope thk shows up again
i miss my tall son

[limpid summit]

Something she can be SURE isn’t true in DnM but might not nail down in EtV

[terse warren]

Which is also wrong

[sinful nimbus]

So if it was ETV it couldn't show up

[limpid summit]

Yes

[terse warren]

And she knows she's wrong due to white palace

[limpid summit]

White Palace isn’t raw void

[timber pond]

I doubt they would remember to show VGfocus and NOT show the hollow knight.

More pepole know who the hollow knight is

[limpid summit]

And she sees her father’s moulds as flawed

[terse warren]

Kingsmoulds and Wingsmoulds are Void that PK controlled

[timber pond]

Yes

[terse warren]

Well they don't fucking seem to be

[sinful nimbus]

The point is that by not showing THK both DNM and ETV can be canon whereas showing THK would make DNM the only canon one because THK is not a shade after ETV

[limpid summit]

Collector??

The moulds are amazing but they’re imperfect

[timber pond]

Then why do the indavidual shades show up as independent actors

[sinful nimbus]

Collector isn't a problem with PK's process or ambitions

[terse warren]

1 exception whereas every other one works perfectly fine

[sinful nimbus]

It was externally influenced

[limpid summit]

It’s a problem with his science

[sinful nimbus]

The former

[muted lantern]

Evidence aside, what hollow knight ending would you find most narratively satisfying to be canon, I'm stuck between embrace the void or dnm

[limpid summit]

Fairly large exception you have a large deadly void creature jumping around

[sacred heath]

wait hang on back up a moment
collector was made by PK?

[foggy fractal]

dream no more

[limpid summit]

She obviously didn’t consider PK’s actions to be controlling the void

[plain coral]

Why didn't it put spoiler

[limpid summit]

Yes she realizes in the ending that TK can

[modern bay]

It spoilered

[muted lantern]

You don't have to spoiler tag here

[limpid summit]

In the main game, until TK appears, she likely believes no one can

[terse warren]

It did and also you don't need to spoiler stuff

[spark valve]

Which is pretty silly

[plain coral]

Oh ok

[timber pond]

Yeah, but making him NOT show up makes ETV more cannon because LITTERALY ever bother shade and VgFocus show up, so why is he not there?

[plain coral]

Mb

[limpid summit]

I personally agree yes but it’s what we have

[sinful nimbus]

If someone steels my test tube where I'm growing an artificial lifeform and injects it with a bunch of steroids that is not an issue with my science, its someone else messing with my creation

[muted lantern]

This is lore chat, if people click here they expect to get spoiled

[limpid summit]

PK did a bang up job

[spark valve]

Not every other shade shows up

[terse warren]

There are a lot more shades than the ones shown on screen

[limpid summit]

But her calling PK’s actions a lack of control has basis; if she knew of what TK could do, she wouldn’t apply the same doubt.

[terse warren]

Like probably a million more

[plain coral]

Why? It's act 3 ending image

[timber pond]

Yeah but if feel like THK would show up to help hornet if it were DNM

[muted lantern]

My new personal headcanon is that herrahs body is so much larger than other weavers is because she's fucking ripped

[limpid summit]

This chat is spoiler free

[plain coral]

Ur right

[timber pond]

With the knight

[terse warren]

Because this channel doesn't need spoiler tags

[foggy fractal]

its meant to be ambigious if its dnm or etv

[terse warren]

But that would make it so there is no ambiguity, which is not what TC wants

[polar yacht]

Guys I'm about to drop an absolutely colossal sized message filled is that ok

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[terse warren]

Actually no that channel also doesn't have a spoiler policy

[modern bay]

Go for it

[foggy fractal]

exactly
thk being there would confirm dnm
them not being there doesn't deconfirm it either

[muted lantern]

Honestly I find dnm more narratively satisfying but for headcanon I want hollow to be alive so etv feels more potent

[sinful nimbus]

The ss-help channels are the only ones with ss spoiler policy

[polar yacht]

Ok here's my current intepretation of events (some things here are definitely wrong/out of order so please correct me)

The citadel is built by the weavers to contain grandma.

How much of it was built by the weavers? As far as I can tell probably not much. The cradle and likely some basic supporting infrastructure. Weaver architecture is drastically different from what we see in the Citadel.

Then if I had to guess what came after was the pilgrimage to the cradle because let's be real it's quite the sight. As more bugs migrate to the area around the cradle it becomes the citadel over time, it hasn't taken on its golden sheen yet but religious undertones are forming.

The weavers aren't very well liked (I have no details on this) so they are booted out by the citadel caste who find a way to keep GMS asleep using song and the conductors are appointed to keep her asleep. I'm unsure if the conductors are higher beings or not. I don't think so.

The conductors become religious figures. I'm not exactly sure how much political power they had.

The religious caste system of the Citadel takes shape and the Citadel as a structure starts to balloon in size.

Areas which were once nature are being destroyed so they create the Memorium to remember them by but over time it goes from a museum to more of a zoo.

As this happens an area which becomes bilewater is destroyed by the smog and waste created by the Citadel and the inhabitants hate the citadel so much they decide to make their entire zone as miserable as possible to exist in with traps and guerrilla warfare.

Anyways back on topic the conductors realize that they are actually going to die which would be very bad so they start experimenting with silk to extend life. Big success. Everyone is getting silked up. Using the tools if your enemy, what could go wrong?

Now I'm unclear on how GMS wrests control of that silk. Does a conductor die? Is there a betrayal? What's the big event that sets the haunting in motion and causes the conductors to lose their grip?

[terse warren]

Yeah

[foggy fractal]

grrr its Grand Mother Silk, not Grandmother Silk
she doesn't have any grand children 🤓 !!!!!!!

[limpid summit]

Love Key Bug wasn’t some kind of meticulous subversive scientist he was just some dude and the Kingsmould failed around him
Hornet has some reason to believe PK’s control of void is flawed - it was pretty good IMO but stuff like the Collector and how simple Wingmoulds really are leaves her room to say that
Voidheart, besides imprinted void beings, is absolute

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet

[timber pond]

Well they did that anyway in my eyes with this ending anyway lol. Either choice makes it more or less ambiguous.

[muted lantern]

Honestly I find dnm more narratively satisfying but for headcanon I want hollow to be alive so etv feels more potent

[plain coral]

So what I was saying is that the knight maybe controls a part of the void bcs he protects hornet from being killed by the void

[cedar walrus]

This thread is just as active as I was hoping it would be

[limpid summit]

Void heart shows us this yes

[muted lantern]

Knight presumably has some level of control over the void yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Spending prolonged contact with a naked kingsmould is pretty atypical

[foggy fractal]

we know even in hollow knight with void heart the knight can unify the void meaning control over it
siblings don't attack anymore, the void tendrils become calm, etc

[sinful nimbus]

The kingsmoulds weren't intended to be actively hugged while naked just like my homunculus wasn't meant to be injected with steroids

[muted lantern]

Knight basically became the leading consiousness for the void, they are the focus for the voids aimless mind

[foggy fractal]

oh right ig that's true now huh

[muted lantern]

Immediately my mind went to the homunculus power of prayer meme

[foggy fractal]

this family tree is wack !

[limpid summit]

I mean this is more of a discussion about PK’s scientific prowess than which ending Silksong is after
I do think Kingsmoulds were well made and Hornet is wrong, but we don’t even know if LKB took off Collector’s armor; the imprint literally could have worn off naturally

We just don’t know

[plain coral]

Ye but people weren't sure if he did survive tho or not

[muted lantern]

So wait, if GMC is hornets grandma does that make lace her aunt??

[timber pond]

I just want to know where The Hollow Knight actuall is.

He's not in the void

[muted lantern]

Depending on what ending was canon either alive in hallownest or in the void

[plain coral]

In the void

[modern bay]

This doesn't sound accurate, what do you mean by this?

[cedar walrus]

Did we decide that this makes only one of the HK endings canon? Sorry catching up but that would seem to be the case

[limpid summit]

What I’m saying, though, is that Hornet having choice opinions on her father’s void manipulation would not lead her to doubt the control of RAW void that TK achieves visibly in DnM by letting it harmlessly sink past her

[plain coral]

Where is he then?

[foggy fractal]

well
GMS creates Weavers, Herrah is now confirmed to be a Weaver because of Silksong, and Herrah gives birth to Hornet so

[left dune]

THK is not there visually but its probably intentionally ambigious

[timber pond]

If I meant big brother hollow knight. His shade is distinct and large. He's not there.

[sinful nimbus]

I mean either way - it was not an issue with controlling the void, it was an issue with controlling the Love Key Bug.

Collector's imprint works perfectly fine, it just has a different crazy imprint added on top.

[limpid summit]

Thus, if Silksong is after DnM, she would not repeatedly assert that no one can control the void

[muted lantern]

If embrace the void is canon then they survived and are prob in hallownest

[modern bay]

It's up in the air, but one or more endings is certainly canon for Silksong

[polar yacht]

Is the hollow knight hollow because the player controls them? Think about it

[limpid summit]

Undertale ruined video game discourse

[polar yacht]

My bad bro

[plain coral]

Then why did he saved her after that ?

[limpid summit]

No im joking 😭😭😭

[muted lantern]

We don't control the hollow knight, hollow knight is final boss lol, we play as ghost

[foggy fractal]

ig so
First Sinner was just a Pharlid before

[modern bay]

Ghost, wanderer, the knight, etc.

[left dune]

that's the knight (unnamed technically)

[foggy fractal]

pharlid being the common spider enemy btw

[muted lantern]

Hollow knight isn't who we play in the first game, it's the vessel we fight before radiance, ghost is who we llay

[timber pond]

It's either dream no more or Embrace the void, im leaning toward the Latter because Big Brother Hollow Knight isn't there in the void with the rest of the shades

[muted lantern]

Ghost saves hornet in the void

[spark valve]

TK is kind of an obvious exception to what she says anyways

[plain coral]

Oh yeah mb always forgetting that

[tawdry flare]

it's both endings

[sinful nimbus]

OK but she IS the literal mother of silk... Therefore
The husks possessed by silk in Whiteward ARE her children

[limpid summit]

Nothing worth mentioning obviously

[gentle aspen]

wrong

[quartz flicker]

I don't think Hornet knew precisely how the fight againt the Radiance went down

[foggy fractal]

hi jojoker

[plain coral]

I think he just died

[gentle aspen]

hi andy

[foggy fractal]

how is silksong

[plain coral]

We need sum hallownest dlc

[limpid summit]

Are you here to promote discussion my good friend JoJoker

[next ridge]

Trobbio is actually another lesser god of pharloom created as the most flamboyant homosexual bug in existence

[gentle aspen]

Yurr

[limpid summit]

You ain’t finished the game get out before you get SPOILED

[quartz flicker]

nah, we need more Coral Content

[polar yacht]

ok the ghost. the character we play as in hollow knight. the knight that we play as.

Is that character hollow or is it implied that there is no such thing and it's impossible.

[sinful nimbus]

I'm talking about the silk not the weavers

[muted lantern]

Trobbio needs to join Grimms troupe asap, his fruity ass would totally light the nightmare lantern

[plain coral]

The most homosexual bug is the green prince technically

[gentle aspen]

They’re not a pure vessel no

[plain coral]

He wouldn't even last a second in grimms troupe

[gentle aspen]

Also not really ss lore

[next ridge]

Battle between Trobbio and green prince

[gentle aspen]

more #hk-lore

[limpid summit]

It’s implied that TK is not hollow. Whether a truly hollow vessel can exist is up to you but yeah what joker said

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is the most homosexual bug because she is controlled by me

[muted lantern]

Lobster lancer should have been the final boss of coral tower

[gentle aspen]

They’d just kiss

[timber pond]

A DLC or game where The Hollow Knight shows up in the Steel City would be Fire. Team Cherry make it happen

[quartz flicker]

why a deltarune character

[limpid summit]

Take my zotelaugh stranger

[left dune]

How did they cut all of the prime coral area and the backer made steel assasin sharpe

[foggy fractal]

yeah now that you mentioned it they don't really have that strong of a connection
First Sinner even saying how GMS lied about them being divine and daughters smth like that I think

[muted lantern]

???

[quartz flicker]

you said lancer

[plain coral]

Was abt to show u something but forget it...

[polar yacht]

Also can someone let me know if anything in my analysis is wrong and answer my question at the end of it

[foggy fractal]

new dlc and its just green prince and their partner making out

[muted lantern]

Lobster lancer is a cut boss from trial of the fool, a lancer is not a thing unique to deltarune, it's someone who uses a lance and rides a mount

[terse warren]

How for real are you rn

[cedar walrus]

So Hornets fathers was pale king and mother is the weaver that was the dreamer? I’m so slow lmao

[terse warren]

Ah, the infamous "8 hour cutscene"

[muted lantern]

Yes

[plain coral]

Ye

[limpid summit]

Lemme give it a read

[left dune]

Why did they make silk soul steel soul

[foggy fractal]

didn't it get turned into god tamer

[gentle aspen]

they hate us

[sinful nimbus]

It seems fine, she was able to gain power again and start the haunting because the citadel went silent some time ago

[limpid summit]

Alright so

[muted lantern]

Yes but lobster lancer would be perfect for coral tower

[plain coral]

Just bring a new stronger grimm variant please

[limpid summit]

You’re fairly spot on at least from what most people have discovered

[foggy fractal]

would you rather
have 8 hour cutscene of the cogwork dancers making out or
have 8 hour cutscene of the green princes making out ?

[left dune]

how is this at all related to what I said

[gentle aspen]

both is good

[cedar walrus]

Do we know what happened to the weavers? And why their village seemed to have been destroyed / abandoned?

[limpid summit]

It’s thought that the citadel silence as Star said compounded with their experiments into Silk awakened GMS

[plain coral]

Making out with what? He died and his man to

[timber pond]

Lore

[terse warren]

Both are good but do they hold hands? I'm scared of such intimate acts like handholding

[gentle aspen]

that doesn’t answer their question tho

[foggy fractal]

dlc memory shenanigans

[gentle aspen]

they simply cut silk soul

[left dune]

yea lol what???

[limpid summit]

It’s not about the Soul it’s about the Steel

[sinful nimbus]

TC realizing silk soul would be too fun and too interesting for their game

[gentle aspen]

like they cut all of the goated shit like coral forest and lomm and sharpe

[timber pond]

It's because the Stel City Exists now

[limpid summit]

TK has no relation to Steel the difference in the Steel modes is that the Steel Servants appear

[gentle aspen]

but no give us FUCKING bilewater instead

[limpid summit]

Flint and steel!

[foggy fractal]

🗣️

[left dune]

who is lomm

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ du du du du du du du du (bile water ost)

[timber pond]

Wait 7 more years for steel assassins Sharpe to show up in the steel city game

[gentle aspen]

it was this guy who looked like lemm in a barnacle area

[left dune]

ohh yea the barnacle guy

[gentle aspen]

with a glorious fecal shell

[foggy fractal]

coral area reduced to one dungeon is a crime

[limpid summit]

Poop Seeker Lomm

[plain coral]

Tbh i don't think there will be another game

[sinful nimbus]

TC removing anything good about their story like Churchkeeper x Caretaker (Why did you have to make them siblings 😭 )

[foggy fractal]

that big round coral guy in the tower kinda looks like me lowkey

[quartz flicker]

I wonder if a smaller skong expansion that just adds a few bosses might happen

[polar yacht]

I think the further away I get from having played bilewater for the first time the more I like it.

[terse warren]

[foggy fractal]

what other gay partners do we have in silksong

[limpid summit]

They’re “adding more content in the months and years to come” I’m sure that means a few bosses

[terse warren]

I honestly actually thought of you when I first saw em

[timber pond]

I think there will. Team cherry said they could have kept developing this forever because it was so much fun and they also did the mister mushroom post credits again for a second time😂

[plain coral]

My kids will be playing this game 💔

[terse warren]

Hornet and Lace trust

[limpid summit]

HD had 2 new bosses, GT 2, LB 1 and GM 5

[foggy fractal]

I am hourned 🙏

[limpid summit]

6 if you count pale lurker (nah)

[gentle aspen]

sorry I don’t subscribe to this anymore

hornet shakra and lace throuple

[foggy fractal]

Guh,,,

[terse warren]

That is acceptable

[tawdry flare]

Lace is a CHILD!!!!

[limpid summit]

Hornet so old dude

[sinful nimbus]

Lacenet got taken outback and shot

[quartz flicker]

Sorry but Lace is too much of a freak for Hornet

[plain coral]

I think they will make dlcs at most

[sinful nimbus]

Frankly the lacenet memes were more interesting than the real story we got

[cedar walrus]

Not trying to spam but do we know why the weavers abandoned distant village and where they all went / what happened to them

[timber pond]

What new boss did lifeblood fuckin have

[terse warren]

Is it because I subscribe to it and you hate me or what

[left dune]

lace is a child stop right there and Hornet is also a child.. wielding needle, so double fucked up

[limpid summit]

Hive knight 💔

[tawdry flare]

The infection

[limpid summit]

I literally forgot today and looked it up paradox dw

[terse warren]

TC could never write as well as the Silkposters

[foggy fractal]

do we even know Lace's age ? her statements about being a child was just alluding to her being the daughter of Grand Mother Silk no ?

[left dune]

yea I know it was a joke because Shakra calls her that

[limpid summit]

She was constructed in a childlike fashion by GSM

[quartz flicker]

hornet is old as shit

[tawdry flare]

she's said to be created to be a child in body and mind

[terse warren]

She's actually multiple generations old iirc

[limpid summit]

Yes she’s fairly old

[cedar walrus]

They were from Pharloom originally, came to Hallownest, then left again due to the infection? Then they all just died l? Feels like I’m missing info

[foggy fractal]

forever young ahh 😭

[timber pond]

Idk they cut content and gave us another hidden ending in the form of the Evil parasite as a hint towards new content. Alogn with Nuu saying that there will be other things to hunt and explore in kingdoms beyond so idk bro. Seems like they changed thier stance over half a decade

[limpid summit]

Made around the same time as Phantom

[terse warren]

Children also grow and don't have murderous thoughts

[gentle aspen]

She’s not but she has a childlike mind or something

[foggy fractal]

smth like that

[gentle aspen]

Because team cherry hates fun

and good things

[sinful nimbus]

Look, a love story themed around devotion could've contrasted very nicely with the Citadel's toxic culture of devotion, and maybe with them being lesbians you could do a very awesome commentary on religious internalized homophobia

[tawdry flare]

Wdym??? I had murderous thoughts as a child

[gentle aspen]

they felt the need to add three maggot juice areas the hatred in their hearts is massive

[foggy fractal]

hey at least we still have Hornet x Shakra

[tawdry flare]

I already did

[modern bay]

I also had murderous thoughts as a child

[terse warren]

Team Cherry also wrote multiple wrong things so imo what they wrote about Lace is actually wrong and Death of the Author applies

[gentle aspen]

If death of the author applied they’d be deceased in 2018

[modern bay]

Bro wanted to throw in a fun fact

[terse warren]

[polar yacht]

I don't fw 99.99% of hk ships because hornet is like a gazillion year old asexual in my view

[tawdry flare]

she likes fluffy things that's her whole personality

[foggy fractal]

the ever helpful journal entry:

[terse warren]

Wow Silkposters really are better writers uh

[plain coral]

I cant wait 7 more years for a new game gng i will go crazy if it happens I'd rather sleep knowing it's the last game then wait hopefully they make a bunch of dlcs finish the lore and voila

[worn flicker]

You are in silksong lore Channel mate, to be here even ya have to be somewhere on the scale of mental ilness where 1 is autism and 10 is being a sociopath

[cedar walrus]

Gms, assuming you’re referring to Grand Mother Silk, murdered all the weavers for what, their silk? I didn’t follow the reason gms was so obsessed with weavers/ hornet/ the ability to make silk if she could just make silk herself it seemed

[terse warren]

Well since we know TC seems to love making the most popular fan theories real I expect everything about Lace to be retconned next game and now she's happily married to Hornet

[limpid summit]

The humble conchfly

[foggy fractal]

she also likes deadly traps apparently

[vernal terrace]

PEASE, that'd be comedy

[polar yacht]

Hollow Knight 3: hornet has her Castlevania dracula moment and tries to just kill everything

[kind pagoda]

||the sir garmond boss fight was heartbreaking||

[limpid summit]

Made the Weavers with her silk, told them they were her daughters, realized she wanted an actual daughter and tried to make one with Lace and Phantom

[modern bay]

Where is this confirmed

[foggy fractal]

another batch of gay rulers LES GO !!!

[slender glacier]

this is already made canon in the coming dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Great but then it turns out that in the 3rd game smokerock, shellwood, coral, crystals, and magnetite are all infections!!!!

[foggy fractal]

GUH

[polar yacht]

idk about widow but hornet said she had partners in the past

[worn flicker]

Big conchfly

[timber pond]

Dont mean to be rude but It another about you. Team cherry just has fun making it so they do what they find fun and intriguing and ignore the rest.

[terse warren]

You kid but they might actually turn Coral and Crystal into an infection, as well as the isma-like Lifeforms

[quartz flicker]

Do you think that the skong DLC will be way different from the hk DLC

[modern bay]

Gotcha, ty

[foggy fractal]

yeah clearly Hornet is not Widow
Widow is a boss that you fight early on we literally see them in the same room

[timber pond]

Lace needs thread to sustain her existence lol. There could be a struggle based around that

Because there ain't none no more😭

[polar yacht]

If we don't get a god home equivalent where we can replay the bosses with modifiers I will be upset

[terse warren]

There's Hornet's

[timber pond]

Hornet ain't infinite

[terse warren]

Hornet and Lace are gonna HAVE to be next to each other 24/7 to ensure Lace's survival not even kidding

[sinful nimbus]

Is Hornet x Eva problematic

[terse warren]

She can generate silk so eh

[cedar walrus]

She made the weavers from silk, some of which then would be daughters, but wanted a different daughter. So made Lace… but also wants to kidnap Hornet cause reasons? Lol

[terse warren]

Technically Eva is now part of Hornet so ehh

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers technically aren't related and eva technically isn't even the child of weavers but it still feels icky

[terse warren]

Eva is a creation

[timber pond]

Mabye if hornet can impart Eva's soul onto lace she can just exist

[quartz flicker]

this is like saying human x human ships are icky

[polar yacht]

p much nobody responded to this so that must mean my version of the lore is perfect with zero flaws

[foggy fractal]

yeah I'm just joking lol
but this begs the question... why is Widow... named Widow.

hmmmmmmm..........................

[modern bay]

Thpider...

[polar yacht]

Eva like that last guy in the iron lung

[foggy fractal]

iron lung 😭 noooo

[limpid summit]

Black

[sinful nimbus]

Its a different kind of cuttlefish

[limpid summit]

I dunno

Maybe it’s like a metaphor

She’s still clinging onto GMS that’s unique among weavers

[sinful nimbus]

She was married to Sharpe in the City of Steel

Then Sharpe tragically got cut and she lost her mate 😔

[timber pond]

Silk has been within every bug in farloom for generations and GMS just wants control over everyone

[polar yacht]

You have grown further beyond the bounds of a bug. Permit me to gaze again upon your nature, that I may offer clarity.

[cedar walrus]

I thought for a bit that both games were a metaphor for a girl named Hornets trauma and having to face it in the form of the abyss in the end

[novel eagle]

The Iron Lung!

Ok like if theres Grand Mother Silk
Where is Grand Father Song?
Team cherry hiding him somewhere just gotta find him.

[timber pond]

No game is more litteral. Lol. Haven't you noticed that the void is a physical force throughout these games?😂

[cedar walrus]

Oh in my brief thought the entirety of what was happening was in her head

[sinful nimbus]

Well void is a metaphor for the regrets of Hallownest and TK has to confront a repressed memory to accept the void (regrets/the past) inside of itself. In a way this is correct just not for Hornet but instead The Knight

[limpid summit]

Yeah the game is literal but there’s metaphors to be found

[novel eagle]

3 mothers

[timber pond]

The weavers were created by Grand mother silk but she's also a terrible mother and leader and so is sealed away by the very same weavers ,feeling betrayed she tries to control them and every other bug of farloom. They flee. Hornet also has dioluge with the caretaker after going into whiteward, figuring out that every bug in this kingdom has had silk within them for generations. Thats why its so simple to control when Grand mother silk starts to awaken.

[polar yacht]

ohhhhh interesting. So are you saying it was used to extend life before the citadel or that it's like micro plastics where everyone just has it?

And follow up, I'm still fairly confident that bugs giving themselves silk made them more susceptible to GMS am I wrong? Or is it just proximity to the Citadel or both?

[timber pond]

Yeah i just answered lol

Grand mother silk is the reason the weavers flee to hollownest, there is a secret tablet that depicts this in the far fields weaver den

[cedar walrus]

Hornet seems to have to relive old memories to get through the void which I found interesting, then she said I will no longer be afraid to face [it]

So made me think it was also her past or trauma or regrets or something… which kinda makes sense if we’re combining the void to be hollownests regrets metaphor

[polar yacht]

Makes sense nice ok

[limpid summit]

You’re right in a sense - those bugs giving themselves silk is what roused GMS and made everyone more susceptible

[polar yacht]

But at the same time all the bugs had a little bit of silk in them already just from existing in Pharloom it just was insignificant?

[timber pond]

No, she just needed the flower that repels dark that the white lady has, and can only get it by going through her memory. This is implied through a secret ending in hollowknight where you beat godhome and give the god seeker the very same flower

[limpid summit]

Not sure

[foggy fractal]

hmm

#noticing

[limpid summit]

All bugs have soul in them at least

[timber pond]

I think the whiteward expiremnts go on for generations, hornet has a really long conversation about it with the caretaker in songclave

[sinful nimbus]

The bugs in SS have silk in them because of the whiteward experiments and that is why GMS was able to start the haunting

[polar yacht]

I think it's clear that they were experiments only for a time and eventually everyone was just getting silked up

[sinful nimbus]

There was a conversation with an NPC I remember where apparently the silk got inherited and now its in a little bit of everyone born in Pharloom which made haunting easier

[timber pond]

No hornet and caretaker explicitly state it goes on for generations

[sinful nimbus]

yeah caretaker was the one

[cedar walrus]

I get that’s literally what happened Paradox, I’m talking about general writing and metaphors in the abstract sense. Like in Babadook if you’ve seen it the monster represents her resentment but in the movie it’s a literal beast that possesses attacks makes noise and stuff

[timber pond]

Oh I didn't see you were talking about the metaphorical meaning

[limpid summit]

That’s where it was

[sage summit]

So gms is like the embodiment or God of silk and when everyone started doping she got stronger

[limpid summit]

All the dialogue being available will help so much

[covert tusk]

It’s just hitting me the Citadel is NASTY bro wdym Verdania is lost and ruined and the Citadel just made cheap robotic versions of their leaders to decorate their holy empire

[sage summit]

Was that really the reason? I kinda missed it

[polar yacht]

So it's a combination of experiments taking place, the wealthy getting silk to extend life and that silk being passed down. All of that taking place over generations

[timber pond]

Well its not doping, they were forced experiments by the society itself. It's liek the bugs injected skelletons into themselves and then had children and so everyone has silk in them

[timber pond]

Yes

[sage summit]

I know I was just joking but yeah. Bloodborne treatment

[timber pond]

Game really is bloodborne in a sense lol

[covert tusk]

I’m not sure, but Verdania is completely gone, and the only proof of its existence are these copies of their princes, one of whom is dead (not even a trace of Verdania once existing, which doesn’t scream to me natural ruin so much as it does intentional erasure)

[sage summit]

Yeah but the green prince said there was some reason they had to take his partner

[foggy fractal]

I can't remember the exact dialogue but I think one of the clover dancers gave themselves up to be created as the cogwork dancers ? thats why it mentions the cogwork dancer's souls are sigular

[sage summit]

Which is just straight up vile

[timber pond]

It seems his partner made a deal with the citadel

[limpid summit]

Iirc Green Prince’s lover attempted to negotiate and they killed him split his soul and put them in the dancers

[sage summit]

Also sidenote, dayum the cogwork dancers mog the clover dancers

[foggy fractal]

smth to that effect

[covert tusk]

Oh my god that’s even worse so when we kill one of the dancers it isn’t just “oh no we killed one of their lovers oh no” it’s we fucking split this guy’s soul in half and basically lobotomized him Jesus Christ

[polar yacht]

Under the Exxon Mobile headquarters there's GMP (Grand Mother Plastic) and one day multiple generations from now humanity will have its minds controlled

[sage summit]

All I'm saying is people shit on the pale king when pharloom exists. Pale king was the goat

[covert tusk]

I thought the clover dancers were a harder cogwork dances

[edgy stone]

I think the negotiation was his life for his kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

who invited kirb

[sage summit]

I enjoyed the cogwork dancers far more. Clover dancers are a bit harder

[edgy stone]

The citadel didnt kill him but betrayed their deal of his death and allowed the death of veridian

[covert tusk]

Dude I’ve been a Pale King defender for years sure he killed god knows how many kids but like if they’re all kind of mindlessly floating in the abyss now is it really murder?? (Yes the paneer is yes)

[timber pond]

He did do some bad shit to stop the inevitable. But yeah grandma silk is the inevitable.

[foggy fractal]

I think its the presentation Clover Dancers has a pretty small room imo and doesn't have the effect that the Cogwork Dancers did granted they (Clover Dancers) are fought after Cogwork Dancers too which kinda takes points off

[cedar walrus]

We don’t have an origin on gms do we

[sinful nimbus]

PK just faced a trolley problem

[sage summit]

Either his kids or the kingdom

[frail aurora]

Wow your health becomes all becomes plasmium if you inject too many plasmium phials into yourself, is this the same as the assistant and the alchemist dying from too much injection?

[sage summit]

Problem is the trolly did multi track drifting

[polar yacht]

gms is a higher being right just making sure

[covert tusk]

Wait it just hit me perhaps the underworkers didn’t get this treatment and that’s why they’re lesser class bugs in the grand hierarchy (of course their corpses would inevitably be used by Silk anyway but still)

[sage summit]

Oh shit you right, I don't remember seeing them haunted

Question tho, why did the under workers or the slab wardens even stay in that shithole

[polar yacht]

I think they are haunted and technically not even alive

[limpid summit]

Slab wardens were themselves prisoners

Underworkers idk for the love of the game

[timber pond]

Pale being seems to be a tier above higher being. I would consider Kahn ,nyleth and Skarsinger higher beings because they can have a domain based on thier own power

[covert tusk]

My personal theory is that Phantom’s job was to round up anyone she defeated in the exhaust engine (aka anyone trying to get to the citadel through SINNER’S road and not the intended way), and these people would become the slab and underworkers, as punishment for going against the citadel
Either that or anyone who failed to make it but didn’t die, showing resilience but not what was desired by the citadel

[timber pond]

Would match with Unn and NKG being higher beings too

[covert tusk]

Point is if you didn’t die trying, you’d become the unappreciated foundation of the Citadel’s golden reputation

[timber pond]

Radiance and Grandmother silk are plae beings I think

[limpid summit]

Pale being is just a blanket term for PK, WL and now GMS

It’s not a higher higher being or anything just like a type

[pseudo stone]

Aren't all of the needlin sequences just in their memories? I swear that's a thing the shamans say somewhere

[sinful nimbus]

Seems like it refers to soul higher beings

[timber pond]

Yes

[craggy smelt]

hornet includes herself as one - I think it's clearly meant to refer to a particularly powerful type of entity at this point

[limpid summit]

And Nyleth who knows (Isma has plant powers too), but Khann Carmelita I don’t know

[cedar walrus]

So gms just shows up where bugs are chillin and have an existing kingdom, messed stuff up, puts silk in everyone, and makes weavers? Trying to comprehend

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet ain't particularly powerful

[limpid summit]

Hornet isn’t even HB level unless you do bad ending

[covert tusk]

Wait hold on so if GMS is a pale being, and now Herrah is a weaver, of which GMS created, doesn’t that make Herrah’s deal with the PK pointless? She’s already got pale blood (unless of course I’m being dumb, it could just be weavers are creations and not direct direct children, thus no HB status)

[sage summit]

I'm assuming pale beings are just demigods or somethin

Cuz they're not exactly gods but they have supernatural abilities

[sinful nimbus]

Nah GMS, White Lady, and Pale King are included and they are regular gods

[craggy smelt]

in light of 'pale being' referring to more than just Hallownest's rulers, I'd agree with Radiance being one in retrospect
PK also refers to her as 'blazing kin'

[timber pond]

If Unn and Grimm are higher beings, then nyleth khan and skarsinger are as well. Because they all have domains

Pale beings seem like they are stronger

[limpid summit]

The Weavers can’t easily have kids, and also she wasn’t royal so her kid with PK legitimized her rule. We don’t know the extent of Herrah’s “Weaverness” but she had other reasons

[sinful nimbus]

If Rad was a pale being I dont' think Vespa would use Pale Being to refer to PK and Wl specifically

[craggy smelt]

I don't know about this - those regions are like memories
dream bosses in the first game had something similar (White Defender, etc.)

[timber pond]

Pale beings seem to have an urge to subjugate

[limpid summit]

Blazing kin I think was just in reference to them just both being lights, standing against the “dark” of the loneliness that comes with a lack of sapience

Pale King with autonomy, Rad with hive mind

As that precedes the Beacon explanation

[sinful nimbus]

Blazing kin could easily refer to other wyrms tbf. He was anticipating his kingdom to be the last and the lore tablet describes the general timeline of Hallownest

[polar yacht]

Isn't phantom also made of silk or something to do with silk in some way? She calls Lace sister doesn't she? Or is she talking to Hornet?

[limpid summit]

Grimm isn’t a higher being NMH is - and what do you mean domain

The memory bosses are strong but they’re like Dream bosses

[real sky]

im kinda dumb but why does hornet call the 12th architect master?

[timber pond]

The shamans say that skarsingers song resisted GMS silk for a time

[limpid summit]

Soul Tyrant isn’t a HB

[sinful nimbus]

"I'll be the last wyrm. I just created a kingdom and ensured its longevity"

[limpid summit]

Respect

[limpid summit]

Not a bad idea

[real sky]

alr, kinda thought that but wasnt too sure, thanks

[tawdry flare]

Those areas are more like collective memories of a civilization rather than a god’s domain

[limpid summit]

But like he talks about the beacon which is probably a thing all Wyrms can do so eh

[craggy smelt]

the tablet refers to the situation with the infection and the vessels though - eternity in promise, charge in progeny cursed

[covert tusk]

Yeah, Phantom and Lace are silk sisters
Which honestly is another reason why I think this is Phantom’s role, the elder sibling (presumably so given how less proper she looks and more like a first attempt, and Lace asking her “Why Us?”) has the important job, the younger not so much

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but also its general creation

[sinful nimbus]

This is how I'd paraphrase it

[covert tusk]

Weavers can’t procreate??

[limpid summit]

Weavers have difficulty procreating

[tawdry flare]

They can but they’re all female

[covert tusk]

Ouhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Scissor me timbers

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet says they have issue reproducing and they also have to breed with other species of spiders since they are all female

[quartz flicker]

Do you think there was/is some king of Unn-like being related to the coral river area.

[pseudo stone]

What about the weaverling charm? It's literally all about there being a bunch of baby weavers

[timber pond]

The shamans say that skarsinger resisted GMS silk with her song, Nyleths domain allowed for safe passage of all bugs, and Kahn fought the citadel with his massive ass terracotta army

[limpid summit]

They’re Soul creations

[polar yacht]

Phantom being related to the slab doesn't make sense to me really just geographically. I think her role, as her name alludes to, is to be an assassin and quietly make people disappear from existence

[limpid summit]

Wait wait

Building on that actually I know you didn’t say it

What the hell is up with the Little Weavers

[polar yacht]

While also being unknown herself.

[timber pond]

Kahn

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is tasked with operating the Exhaust Organ

[quartz flicker]

Kahn is not Unn-like lmao

[craggy smelt]

wasn't Khann the last of several kings

[limpid summit]

Near infinite levels of Weaver children holy shit

[polar yacht]

Question. What does the exhaust organ do

[limpid summit]

Yall got any consistent weaver lore

We got hype moments and aura

[sinful nimbus]

Gets rid of citadel fumes

[timber pond]

He's a higher being imo all those bosses are

[covert tusk]

The slab was a stretch I admit but I do feel like she had to let some people live because again, why would they take able body pilgrims who completed their pilgrimage, and just decide nope actually you’re a sewage worker get to scrubbing
Like I get the experiments were cruel and pointless but they had reason behind them

[craggy smelt]

weavers and beasts gettin busy

[quartz flicker]

expels all the Citadel's fart gas

[keen axle]

Anyone else kinda feel bad for mither silk

[craggy smelt]

mother solk

[tawdry flare]

No

[limpid summit]

Wait okay I genuinely don’t get it

Why would the Weavers leave all their children to be infected if Weaver children were such a commodity???

[tawdry flare]

cruel and pointless

had reason

[sinful nimbus]

How did they even make the little weavers so easily

[limpid summit]

Yeah exactly

[craggy smelt]

they were probably infected before they left

too easy to infect stupid babies

[sinful nimbus]

When I'm in a not planning out the lore competition and my opponent is TC

[polar yacht]

In the most aura farming way possible. Dope.

[limpid summit]

And it’s not like they’re just young Weavers transformed FS comes out fully grown

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom goes so hard. Top 5 fight

[covert tusk]

I’m a wee bit slow chat LMAO

[keen axle]

Do you think there are other weavers out there

[tawdry flare]

We need a Regression Theory

Actually no we don’t

[timber pond]

I wonder how plae king evolved bugs

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah, they scattered throughout the world a while ago
AFAIK we never even know what happened to the group that was in Hallownest

[timber pond]

Did he just like plant an aura somewhere or something

[tawdry flare]

With his bacon

BEACON

[sinful nimbus]

Must be a long bacon to expand all those minds. Where did he buy it

[limpid summit]

His corpse became a beacon that will grant sapience to all bugs born in the area forever

[craggy smelt]

wyrmbacon

[pseudo stone]

They "departed for their old home", according to the weaversong description

[craggy smelt]

figured they couldn't run any more, ig

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but I haven't seen much indication of them

[craggy smelt]

maybe hoping to keep the Citadel from coming looking and finding Hornet too soon

[sinful nimbus]

Before SS released we theorized they were the only group of weavers and they alerted the citadel of Hornet's existence and tbh I enjoy that idea more, feels like a more natural direction for the story to take

[limpid summit]

The wastes entrance to Pharloom is Blasted Steps

So all the Hallownest Weavers might have just been Last Judged

[sinful nimbus]

Come to think of it

We see the bridge they were crossing and it leads to... shellwood? What were they thinking

Idiots got lost

[limpid summit]

I sort of thought we’d see more live weavers

[craggy smelt]

would've been cool if Widow had been a Deepnest Weaver or something, and they recognized each other
though it was pretty cool alrdy

[polar yacht]

Chat I have more questions. I believe both the citadel caste and GMS started kidnapping weavers for more silk am I correct in that assumption?

[limpid summit]

I love love loved Widow best boss in the game

[craggy smelt]

she's pretty great

[quartz flicker]

probably taking Hornet to Widow

[limpid summit]

I hope it gets a sisters of battle esque rehaul and FS doesn’t count

[craggy smelt]

Widow & First Sinner

[sinful nimbus]

GMS is the one ordering her capture though

The ultimate end destination of the weavers is the cradle, we can see other cages used to trap weavers there

[craggy smelt]

where the delicious 'City of Steel' mention is

[limpid summit]

When I first saw a video of First Sinner midway through the game I thought it was a Widow dream boss

[timber pond]

I think GMS tried to control the weavers for thier silk and to do what she wanted and that's why they ran in all directions

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but GMS is the one controlling the caste

[polar yacht]

god of silk

can't make it

[timber pond]

Or just gave up and got captured/executed or sealed themselves

[keen axle]

want to know what happened to the hollow knight

[craggy smelt]

either chilling back in Hallownest, or off in the Void on their own
they don't care about the Void Heart, they do what they want

[timber pond]

I think its less of that and more of a temperamental mother wanting perfect daughters that expand a d subjugate

[polar yacht]

hmmmm ok

[keen axle]

Hope he is doing better 🙏

[sinful nimbus]

here

[timber pond]

Mainly because that's just the nature of pale beings, as white lady states. Probably why she sealder herself in the first game. She also says that they have good intentions, but are led astray or can't see past themselves

[sinful nimbus]

Oh the message was deleted

[craggy smelt]

Silk is said to be 'desperate to wake' and I think she's harvesting silk and magic for that reason, to undo the binding the Weavers placed on her
possibly also to sustain her silkborn like Lace

[narrow folio]

i saw some people say Lace is Hornet’s sibling but i genuinely can’t find any evidence of this, is this true?

[sinful nimbus]

It is not

[narrow folio]

thats what i thought lol

[craggy smelt]

only in the sense that she was created by Silk, the ultimate source of the Weavers

[keen axle]

It is not lol

[sinful nimbus]

If you think about it Lace is Hornet's aunt

[craggy smelt]

yeah

[timber pond]

Nope not really

[timber pond]

More like a Niece

[narrow folio]

how

[iron whale]

Very technical speaking lace is hornets aunt

[craggy smelt]

Lace is the daughter of Hornet's grandmother

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah and Lace are both GMS's children (kinda)

[iron whale]

Hornet is the daughter of a Weaver and she only exists because gms game weavers sentience and power

[timber pond]

At least she acts more like a Niece and hornet calls her child

[narrow folio]

HUH. I MISSED THIS WHAT WHERE

[iron whale]

Gms is the Weaver queen, she game them sentience and power (she created them from spiders)

[craggy smelt]

GMS created the weavers and Lace both

[timber pond]

First sinner boss and the 2nd lace fight

[iron whale]

To be fair it's fair to miss it, the info of this is hidden behind a hard to find boss in the slab

[craggy smelt]

in different ways, but she is the 'mother' of both weavers and silkborn

[polar yacht]

silkborn?

oh lace

[iron whale]

Lace is made entirely of threax

So she needs loads of silk to sustain her life

[naive crag]

can gms run out of silk?

[iron whale]

Also isn't gms real name just... Silk? Since I'm p sure she's called grand mother because she's literally hornets grandmother

[craggy smelt]

fear the old silk

[timber pond]

Mabye hornet can take Eva out of herself and put her in lace lmao

[polar yacht]

Yeah

[iron whale]

Yes that's why she was hunting the weavers

She wanted that power back

[naive crag]

if everyone can run out of silk what happens when it eventually ends

[craggy smelt]

what with her being bound, she might not have been able to provide enough herself

[iron whale]

Bugs become normal and not influenced by silk