sk-lore

[severe siren]

Requires flea brew

[spark valve]

[tribal steeple]

does anyone know why hornet calls twelfth architect master?

[worthy knoll]

I have brew as well so I should do that soon

[severe siren]

25

[limpid summit]

No the infinite one

[tribal steeple]

is it just a respect thing or am i not remembering something from their dialogue

[spark valve]

I wish doing the flea festival made your flea brew no longer take reserves

[severe siren]

Oh idk

[severe siren]

Like lifeblood needle

[limpid summit]

I think it’s just a respect thing iirc

[raven cove]

I should use flea brew more

[spark valve]

Yeah

[worthy knoll]

reserves r annoying I cant imagine going to blasted steps every time

[spark valve]

I’ve never actually used flea brew

[severe siren]

Flea festival wont have anything on e33 climbing minigame with the dropping shit

[spark valve]

I chugged it once at the festival just because

[worthy knoll]

only thing stopping me from wanting to one trick wanderer flea brew with the reduced recoil tool

[raven cove]

I used it against Signis and Grond to basically instakill the former as soon as the latter spawned along with Flintslate

That’s the only time I used it reallly

[worthy knoll]

cool fight

[severe siren]

I loved that fight

Im sad i first tried it

[spark valve]

I used rune rage

[limpid summit]

Fleas would actually be so much cooler than grubs if not for Krapp

[white panther]

oh ye, its her. So is this the one who originally trained Hornet?

[raven cove]

For a boss with two attacks it was fun

[limpid summit]

Why did they put him in

[limpid summit]

Yuppp

[raven cove]

His name is literally Krapp

[worthy knoll]

I used floor spikes and the coral one for Unravelled thats prov the only time

[spark valve]

I kinda like the spa bell you just gotta smack him once

[raven cove]

She didn’t train her

[spark valve]

She did

[raven cove]

She just made the needle apparently

[severe siren]

Its the average redditor
Oh and its funny how he has all the worst scores in festival

[spark valve]

No there’s a flashback of them training

[worthy knoll]

dont think im ever getting floor spike value again now

[limpid summit]

Well they aren’t even his games he’s useless he just decides to tag along with the caravan

[raven cove]

i’m actually going to crash out

[limpid summit]

The usopp of the fleas

[worthy knoll]

is it the spa pervert

[limpid summit]

Yes

[worthy knoll]

fuck that guy

[raven cove]

We should delete this channel because SS clearly has no lore

[severe siren]

Imagine getting saved from death by someone and then trying to peep at them

Wait thats basically bretta

[limpid summit]

Okay wait

I’ve been blindly hating but I do want to know

What is SS Mask Maker’s reactive dialogue

Cause their regular dialogue is just nothing

[edgy stone]

Does hornet have any dialouge explicitly mentioning the vessels

[severe siren]

You can do a delivery quest to mask maker

Its ass

[limpid summit]

Like a courier quest?

[severe siren]

Yes

[limpid summit]

No way

[raven cove]

SS Mask Maker serves no purpose whatsoever all of their dialogue is nothing just like their HK counterpart and I’m not sure why they exist other than being a “cool HK reference!!”

[severe siren]

All the way to the top of mount fay

[limpid summit]

And is this required for act 3

[worthy knoll]

also it took me a while to realize reactive dialogue wasnt for a needolin unlock

[severe siren]

From bellhart

[edgy stone]

Okay just beat the true ending

[spark valve]

No

[edgy stone]

Wohoo

[severe siren]

Idk if its required for any % i just did it anyway cause the item itself counts in your records in bellhome and i like collecting records for no reason

[worthy knoll]

I dont even wanna do Blasted Steps Citadel deliveries yet

[severe siren]

Call me scrounge

[worthy knoll]

let alone Mount Fay so I've been just leaving Mask Makers on thre delivery list

[spark valve]

The pale oil delivery is the only one I did

[raven cove]

I’ve only done courier’s rasher

[limpid summit]

What’s the root to Fay even

Just like you’re delivering for the oil but left towards Slab?

[spark valve]

Probably

[worthy knoll]

I did the repeatables and the Queen's Egg so far

[limpid summit]

Okay Tammo like what

[edgy stone]

Are they endless missions?

[limpid summit]

Pale Oil???

[worthy knoll]

also whats the last ingredient on Great taste of Pharloom I figured out the others

[severe siren]

I had to route to avoid void enemies so it was shellwood -> blasted steps -> citadel -> slab -> mount fay

[limpid summit]

Was that mostly supposed to be tongue in cheek or like

[spark valve]

The courier’s rasher you have to do to get pale oil

[limpid summit]

Ooh

[limpid summit]

No like why is it Pale Oil

[spark valve]

Idk what you have

[raven cove]

It’s the Pale Ore equivalent TC are incapable of having new ideas

[edgy stone]

Whats the name of the one required

[severe siren]

Its worth saving every flea btw

The reward is good and not shit like the grubs

[limpid summit]

A friend told me that pale being was retconned into being a term beyond just PK and WL is that true

[severe siren]

So do that

[spark valve]

Yes

[edgy stone]

Fuck dude im only at 77% completion

[limpid summit]

Why would they do that

[spark valve]

Because they hate you

[limpid summit]

I dunno I like the master sword

[severe siren]

Every tool counts as 1%

[raven cove]

They retconned a lot of shit my guy

Your friend sounds like a pretty smart guy

[limpid summit]

What did I miss when do they say it

[severe siren]

count all the missing ones as extra 1%’s

[spark valve]

It’s probably like soul gods

[spark valve]

A few times I can’t exactly directly quote dialogue easily yet

[severe siren]

Radiance pale being 🤯

[limpid summit]

Fair

[edgy stone]

Okay thats like a solid 20%

[spark valve]

But pale nail is telling

[worthy knoll]

||Mossberry Stew - complete the Mossberry sidequest
Vintage Nectar - buy from Halfway Home
Courier's Rasher - deliver the Courier's Rasher to kitchen in Choral Chambers
Crustnut - hidden area in Sands of Karak that requires 2 more movement abilities
Pickled Muckmaggot - ???||

[limpid summit]

Okay last question it’s 4 am

[spark valve]

Oh that’s from ass Jim

[severe siren]

Whats your needle upgrade status like

[limpid summit]

Do we see the obscured head of our favorite Plasmium Creature anywhere

[raven cove]

I would say Radiance wasn’t a pale beinf but they do call soul light and apparently soul can also cause its own version of the infection ||as can fucking lifeblood|| so atp I don’t care anymore call her what you want

[spark valve]

I don’t remember where ass Jim is

[worthy knoll]

at least I'm assuming thats where Crustnut is theres a room I need wings for and it looks crusty and nutty

[severe siren]

Sinners road, requires double jump

[worthy knoll]

oh the other thief looking area?

[spark valve]

It’s in sands yes

Not sure you need double jumping but maybe

[limpid summit]

I thought ass Jim was sinners road I might be wrong

[raven cove]

He is

[spark valve]

Yeah but where in sinner’s road

[raven cove]

Near the start

[limpid summit]

Like middle right

[raven cove]

You take the lower path

[worthy knoll]

theres a djump area right of cage room on map

[limpid summit]

The area past where you find Green Prince originally if you were going linear

[worthy knoll]

iirc

[severe siren]

Crustnut is in a room left of the vertical room that is connected to the blasted steps one with the bellbeast iirc

[raven cove]

Yes the lower path

[golden quarry]

i think all higher beings can influence bugs in a way that would cause something similar to an infection and nothing in this game goes against the idea radiance isnt a pale being

[limpid summit]

Yup

[raven cove]

Then once you open the door you can access him via the top path as well

[edgy stone]

All done, i need three more mask shards though as well. I know 2 of them but need to find the last one

[worthy knoll]

yeathe boss shortcut

[golden quarry]

this was fairly visible in hk too where the pale king doesnt cause infection persay but he still does inspire a sort of fanaticism similar to infection just without the ferality

[raven cove]

pale being doesn’t mean anything anymore who cares

[severe siren]

Have you found an area called wisp thicket

[edgy stone]

Yeah

[raven cove]

It’s basically an alternative to higher being now

[severe siren]

Mask shard in the right side there idk if you got it

[edgy stone]

I did

[severe siren]

Good

[prime gorge]

light go back to writing in ur death note bud

[spark valve]

They also just use the term god

[raven cove]

PK doesn’t mind control anyone his influence is very different to rad or gms unless that was also retconned

[edgy stone]

Do the mementos not count towards completion

[severe siren]

Theres a mask shard in the vault leading to the route to right of songclave and into bilewater

[severe siren]

They dont count

[edgy stone]

Weird, I need 4 more of them

[severe siren]

Remember to do your quests

[golden quarry]

wdym also retconned. you think things were retconned?

[edgy stone]

I dont know how to get seths or thr gray one

[severe siren]

Things were retconned yes

[raven cove]

A number of things were retconned yes

[worthy knoll]

oh thats the reward? I did most of it but fell down by accident after unlocking all the switches

[severe siren]

Mr mushroom addresses it too lmao

[golden quarry]

fair enough, i didnt mean pale king was mind controlling bugs like infection lol i meant a common trait of higher beings is the ways fanaticism over them manifest

[severe siren]

Stole your screenshot tammo

[spark valve]

Sure people tend to worship gods one way or another

[raven cove]

I don’t think it makes sense to call that a common trait when the ways in which it manifests are completely different

[edgy stone]

I really liked hornets dialouge throughought the game

[spark valve]

It’s a superficial similarity

[edgy stone]

She was fairly straight foward with everyone

[severe siren]

Me when the release trailer music kicked in

Cinema absolute

[edgy stone]

Also a lot nicer

[raven cove]

People worshipping literal deities isn’t strange but there’s a difference between bugs choosing to worship PK or getting mind controlled by Rad or GMS it’s not really a similarity at all

Unn was worshipped indirectly WL wasn’t worshipped period as far as we can tell neither was NMH

[severe siren]

Its also how you find twisted bud

[spark valve]

Twisted bud is one of the game elements of all time

[raven cove]

It’s so stupid

[severe siren]

I love seth

[spark valve]

Seth is good

[severe siren]

I like that he’s required for true ending

[edgy stone]

I need to finish his quest

Where the hell does he go after greymoore?

[worthy knoll]

oh I got twisted bud but not the shard lmao

[golden quarry]

twisted bud and associated quest is cool it's just a really badly marked secret path lol

[severe siren]

Shard should still be in the vault but leading to that route

[edgy stone]

My favorite part of the game might be all of the act 3 stuff

[spark valve]

Well that’s just silksong the game fucking hates signposting essential shit

[severe siren]

I love opening my inventory and hearing a crying baby on either the left or right side of my ears relative to what menu i have open

[edgy stone]

Some really good highlights in there outside of those fuckass powered up enemies

[severe siren]

Game design

[golden quarry]

is twisted bud essential it's just a crest

[worthy knoll]

I just havent rly liked the NPC backtracks so far

[severe siren]

Theres an entire ||ending|| for it

[golden quarry]

like yeah it's annoying that 100% is more obtuse to obtain now but idk i got it fine

[spark valve]

It’s not I’m just saying it’s a broader problem

[limpid summit]

What do you think the curse responds to in twisted child

[edgy stone]

The council of crows was really cool

[limpid summit]

Hornet trying to bind doesn’t matter, is it just mother weakening

[worthy knoll]

I think it reacts with a very large amount of silk

[spark valve]

I mean it does respond when she binds

[raven cove]

I was lucky I immediately went to chapel maiden who told me about yarnaby who I was also lucky to have already found shortly prior to getting that quest since I hadn’t explored that part of Greymoor yet

[severe siren]

They were completely justified too

Like we were the ones who sparked the thing that happened it was completely fair for them to decide to eliminate us

[edgy stone]

Also maybe I just didnt get enough lore but I uhh frankly dont care about the grand mother much

[raven cove]

Running around like that would have gotten annoying very quickly

[edgy stone]

Like the radiance is cooler in every aspect to me

I feel like ill like grand mother once a lore vid drops

[severe siren]

I like the radiance story better but visually grandmother is cooler

[edgy stone]

I kinda disagree with that

[spark valve]

gms has a banger design

[edgy stone]

I was disappointed with how she looked

[golden quarry]

yeah my main issue with the game overall was just how obtuse triggering silk and soul was

[worthy knoll]

yeha I feel Grand Mother hasnt been alluded to much and most of their power hasnt been shown off in the fight

[raven cove]

She has like four attacks

[edgy stone]

Her attacks were too radiance like as well

[severe siren]

Her presentation is cool thooooougj

[spark valve]

Yeah this was pretty egregious

[raven cove]

She’s also stupidly easy for a final boss

[spark valve]

She’s not

[edgy stone]

She has like 2 radiance moves

[worthy knoll]

shes a rly cool fight but I prefer fighting Radiance in dreamworld esp bc of her taking on a fake sun > a big silk ball

[limpid summit]

Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s no true title card boss then is there

Like radiance nkg it’s just the PV title

[severe siren]

I do wish GMS was harder

[raven cove]

a

[worthy knoll]

also the titlecard doesnt fullscreen unfortunately and the fight didnt feel too much like a multiphass

[spark valve]

Maybe another phase

[edgy stone]

I am really excited to see all the lore cataloged and made sense out of

[severe siren]

Another phase where creepy music box ost plays and it starts tweaking

[golden quarry]

lost lace was a really good final boss but there was a small sense of emptiness when i realized i wasnt going to also fight void gms

[worthy knoll]

shes rly cool but trying to make THK equivalent a Radiance-like downscaled the boss

[edgy stone]

Like the whole weaver blood being hunted

[severe siren]

Lowkey i agree

[raven cove]

mfs need to stop comparing her to PK PK wouldn’t have put up that sorry excuse of a fight

[edgy stone]

How the weavers tried to groom hornet to be a queen of pharloom

[spark valve]

PK would’ve used the hyper beam and been done with it

[severe siren]

Anyway lacenet is canon in true ending

[golden quarry]

immediately any emptiness was rescinded when i was freed from having to consider if the game was going to be left ambigious in the sequel prequel department when the ending played

[raven cove]

Void Lace is a cool fight the only issue is it feels fanmade

[severe siren]

Thats factual real lore 10000%

[raven cove]

But that can be said of a lot of act 3

[spark valve]

That’s like half the game man

[edgy stone]

Dude the most fanmade boss is nyleth I swear to god

Her entire fight looks like a pale court model

[severe siren]

Im the only nyleth enjoyer arent i

[edgy stone]

She moves weird man

[spark valve]

Because she and Isma are the same thing??

[golden quarry]

oh yeah they are arent they

[raven cove]

ok but “void garmond and lace” is literally some fanon wiki shit

[edgy stone]

Its like animation quality

[severe siren]

Her animations were fine? Am i tweaking

[limpid summit]

Fourth Chorus was animated weirdly too right

[edgy stone]

Something about her presentation looks choppy like the fanmade mods

[spark valve]

Nyleth is fine but I just cheesed her

[severe siren]

Thats intentional though, its a marionette deal its meant to feel sorta weird

[raven cove]

did you use shaman crest

[spark valve]

No

[limpid summit]

I like how the automaton sung near the twelfth architect

[spark valve]

I didn’t find shaman crest until after true ending

[edgy stone]

I do think first sinner is probably my favorite boss

Or the last Sentinel

[severe siren]

Its hard to pick a favorite

[edgy stone]

What the fuck does the first sinner imply

[golden quarry]

i didnt find it till going for 100% too but i felt stupid for not realizing there was obviously a crest in the ancient chapal

[spark valve]

I used Hunter crest and hung out on the wall while waiting for silk to recover so I could spam the goat rune rage

[edgy stone]

I never switched off of reaper

[raven cove]

Shaman would’ve been better smh

[severe siren]

Same

[spark valve]

I didn’t have it but yes

[raven cove]

Reaper feels so ass

[spark valve]

Bro what

[edgy stone]

Reaper feels by far the most versatile

[golden quarry]

is shaman's written benefit just that it's basically shaman stone

[edgy stone]

Good attacks and good parkour

[spark valve]

Hunter is way better

[raven cove]

It’s so slow

[severe siren]

Dont care

You sound like a hk discussion person saying that shit

[golden quarry]

i kept switching between wanderer reaper and hunter they all felt good

[severe siren]

How low tammo has stooped

[edgy stone]

I never used beast at all

[raven cove]

Reaper Wanderer Witch are all goofy

[spark valve]

Reaper also has wonky attack speed and a not super useful bind effect.

[raven cove]

Beast is probably the best dps wise actually

[severe siren]

Skill issue

[raven cove]

It’s just weird

[edgy stone]

It's a novel idea but the tools seemed abysmal

[severe siren]

Now i sound like a hk discussion user

[spark valve]

No shot it isn’t shaman

[severe siren]

How low ive stooped

[spark valve]

Shaman with the lightning tool

[golden quarry]

reaper's bind effect is weird because i assumed from reading it just be like soul catcher but it's a fucking weird win more bind effect

[edgy stone]

I liked reaper as I could do everything in the game with ease

[raven cove]

I guess it’s probably that

Voltvyrm

[abstract rivet]

How many needle upgrades can we get?

[golden quarry]

4 you should probably ask stuff in help though not lore

[narrow pelican]

4

[raven cove]

They be calling anything a wyrm nowadays

[narrow pelican]

yeah

[severe siren]

Wait what makes reaper’s bind different i cant read

[edgy stone]

Like she probably has some of the biggest lore implications in the game right

[raven cove]

It spawns silk things

[severe siren]

Oh so thats what those were

[spark valve]

It makes hitting enemies spawn those pickups for a bit

[edgy stone]

Its decent enough and saved me a few times

[spark valve]

You mean you didn’t know 😭

[severe siren]

those personally helped me idk about yall

[worthy knoll]

Reaper feels super slow but the silk bonus is great and its better wuen you get second tool

[edgy stone]

I wish Wanderer had a special effect

[golden quarry]

it does i just dont know how it fucking works

[worthy knoll]

Wanderer feels good for its attack speed

[severe siren]

I used reaper and lowkey forgot to use more than one red tool on bosses

[edgy stone]

Also what the hell are evas requirements????

[raven cove]

Wanderer attack speed is good but the range is ass

[worthy knoll]

it has crits but idk how those work

[severe siren]

I also didnt have any boss loadouts i just ran through the game with the same shit

[edgy stone]

I have no idea what progressing my nature is

[raven cove]

Memory Lockets apparently

[golden quarry]

randomly when i use wanderer it just seemingly crits and i dont know how to trigger it

[severe siren]

Depends on the number of memory lockets you consume

Not have, consume

[edgy stone]

Oh what the hell

I went back every time I gained a weaver ability

[severe siren]

You dont need all of them btw

[raven cove]

Does anyone actually know the thresholds

[edgy stone]

Because yknow that makes fucking sense for a weaver character

[golden quarry]

probably not

[edgy stone]

Memory lockets??

[golden quarry]

not even for a weaver character you'd just assume increasing your nature would mean thresholds are when you get new skills

[edgy stone]

Thats actually so stupif

[severe siren]

I love eva dont slander eva

[worthy knoll]

oh I havent gone back even since unlocking Witch and I have 3 unused lockets

[raven cove]

I guess it’s cryptic and poorly signposted like everything else in this stupid game

[edgy stone]

I have like 15 unused lockets

I only upgraded reaper

I didnt use anything else

[grave rain]

theresholds are based on total tool slots iirc

[severe siren]

Idk why i 😭 reacted i did the same thing

[golden quarry]

oh wow first time ive seen any dislike that's not bitching over damage

[worthy knoll]

I used any since maxing Wanderer and Reaper

[edgy stone]

Ive seen a few

[raven cove]

This game has a lot of things to complain about

[edgy stone]

I do think the game is more heavily flawed than hk but its also just a better game

[elder cobalt]

do you think that the ||mask maker|| is the same species as in hk?

[edgy stone]

Like it feels more like a game than hollow knight in a weird sense

[worthy knoll]

theres a lot of weird indicators in the game, Underworks (you cant go right to left, the platforming there sucks) and Bilewater are awful

[elder cobalt]

same lol

[raven cove]

It’s definitely better idk about more flawed though HK is also an incredibly flawed game

[edgy stone]

Idk I cant complain much about hk I feel like

[raven cove]

I guess its issues are maybe more glaring

[severe siren]

HK was ass dsy 1 let team cherry cook with the patches and updates

[elder cobalt]

the more i play the more i understand the choices tc made in skongs gameplay

[edgy stone]

Not even glithces but general design

[severe siren]

Hopefully better signposting later on

[worthy knoll]

HK is flawed in a way you can just use those to trivialize the game

[raven cove]

HK was also rushed

[severe siren]

Oh yeah true

[raven cove]

SS took seven years gang

[edgy stone]

So was silksong

Silksong was supposed to take 15 years to make

Its why we dont have the coral area

[golden quarry]

most of my issues with silksong felt like stuff that probably just didnt caught since they had a small playtest team

[elder cobalt]

this game feels a lot more linear with the upgrades/progression which i dont like as much, but it is still amazing

[edgy stone]

Wouldve taken 8 extra years for it

[raven cove]

HK was basically unfinished on release

[severe siren]

Ngl this is a valid explanation

[elder cobalt]

true

[golden quarry]

like the signposting and stuff i was just like "someone blind to the game hadnt touched it in a long time"

[edgy stone]

Ive only had my game glitch a few times

Enemies not taking damage is a big one

[worthy knoll]

its like Metroid Dread progression which I like and how bosses are 3 minutes long but feel fulfilling (outside of GMS6

[golden quarry]

other than that it felt like a perfect sequel to HK

[severe siren]

I had no problems finding silk and song quest but i can absolutely see why its a bit annoying

[edgy stone]

I had everything but the flees

[severe siren]

Especially cause i wasted time looking around before realizing i had to do quests

[edgy stone]

I think the flees are the major issue with jt

Because the flee area is hard as fuck to find

[golden quarry]

after how seamlessly voidsoul quest was given to the player it just feels really bad to have it locked behind doing nearly everything without much indication

[worthy knoll]

fleass are stupidly difficult to find compared to grubs too

[edgy stone]

And also awful to be in

I wouldve loved more variety in that area

[severe siren]

Im pretty sure its only locked behind talking to the flea npc in ducts then getting caravan to move to fleatopia

[edgy stone]

Every area with those leeches feels the same to me

[raven cove]

It’s like if they locked the HK true ending behind needing grubs but also made them harder to find and didn’t think to include any signposting

[golden quarry]

fleas as a requirement would be fine if map flea was not also hidden in one of the furthest locations in the game lol

[severe siren]

Like i had silk and song quest whilst i had other quests

[raven cove]

Fool what you’re describing is kind of the issue with it

[severe siren]

Yeah

I know its ass

[raven cove]

Nobody who had it even knew what the requirements were

[edgy stone]

The area also sucks because theres not a lot in jt

Other than the flees and huntress there isn't much

[severe siren]

Yep yep when i discovered it and tried to help tammo get it we both went insane

[golden quarry]

mister mush tho

[edgy stone]

Also huntress is just nothing I thought she would be a bigger character

[golden quarry]

that's oomf

[edgy stone]

That bitch died before I even finished her quest

[severe siren]

We couldnt find the prereq until i said “talk to the flea npc maybe” then when caravan moved it worked

Its so dumb

[golden quarry]

the amount you need to get them to move is just too high

[worthy knoll]

I wish she appeared after the quest I didnt even buy the elevator marker yet

[golden quarry]

she does

[raven cove]

This is the reason I chose not to rush through the game, I could just wait for someone else to figure out the requirements for me

[golden quarry]

she'll sometimes be attacking enemies right outside of the left to bellhart

[edgy stone]

Also where does shakra go in act 3 after bellhart?

[severe siren]

Yeah i (and tammo) suffered so nobody else gotta

[golden quarry]

she doesnt go anywhere afaik she just appears on the left side fighting enemies sometimes

[severe siren]

Nowhere
Sometimes she appears outside bellhart from both sides, sometimes she doesnt

[edgy stone]

I found every area by myself other than the dumbass flea area

I hate that place

Abysmal dogshit

[severe siren]

Second sentinel can always be found in at least two rooms randomly fighting enemies

[edgy stone]

I loved secknd Sentinel

Bossfight was really good

[severe siren]

I love second sentinel too

[edgy stone]

I also really like the green prince

[golden quarry]

i struggle to think of a boss i thought was bad

[severe siren]

Ole’ “citadel knight”

[edgy stone]

For a gimmick boss its really good

[severe siren]

Father of the flame

[static lark]

I found the flea place but I didn’t find the npc that tells you where the fleas are on my own

[golden quarry]

i struggle to think of a second boss i thought was bad

[static lark]

hell of a thing to put in a cryptic spot

[edgy stone]

I do wish the memory zones were more expansive

[raven cove]

BEASTFLY

[golden quarry]

nah that was fine the only issue is that most people dont go in with silk storm to wipe minions off the face of the planet

[edgy stone]

Only 4 of them and only 2 have explorable areas

[severe siren]

Lava beastfly is painful but i dint think its bad

like it works as a fight

Good use of the existing arena

[edgy stone]

Also why does the spell explicitly rip peoples hearts out of their chest

I dont think we needed the princes heart frankly

[golden quarry]

i was really glad that green prince was basically one of the only reused fights since i thought clockwork dancers was one of the best fights

[raven cove]

well the first time I fought it he disappeared during the last phase and I couldn’t finish the fight

[edgy stone]

We could've put something else above the fireplace

[severe siren]

Ngl the reused fights in ss are actually interesting

[golden quarry]

yeah they're all better than "they're faster" which was the hk refight principle

[raven cove]

Yeah beastfly can despawn if you hit the lava while it’s also in there did you know that

[severe siren]

Fr? 😭

[raven cove]

At least it seems to have a trigger unlike ass jim who can just disappear for no reason

[mortal birch]

Is Pharloom a giant body, various parts are named after body parts. The Marrows, The Exhaust Organ, The Bile Wate, Bone Bottom, Bell HART,

[severe siren]

I love ass jim

I love how nobody is calling hin lugioli

[raven cove]

I hate the maggot gimmick it can die in a fire

But he’s easy otherwise

[edgy stone]

How much phantom lore is there

Is it just lace sister

[golden quarry]

hornet justifying it as "he was glad to die by his lover" was really funny to me considering all parts of the green prince questline seemed to be green prince telling you to fuck off and hornet going "yeah sure"

[raven cove]

2 mask contact damage when he moves around so much and can easily corner you is questionable but that’s just ss

[edgy stone]

It was honestly just kinda evil

Hornet just killed a man

[severe siren]

Learning parry was a cool bit

[edgy stone]

Fucking ripped out his heart too

[golden quarry]

i dont even know how to feel about it im just like why was i allowed to do that

idk maybe he was gonna kill himself off screen anyway

entire kingdom and people are a footnote, lover turned into two robots which are dead

[raven cove]

hype moments and aura

phantom is a fun fight also a bit easy tho

[edgy stone]

I thought her difficulty was fun at least

[raven cove]

in a world of double damage bosses a single mask damage boss was welcome

it’s just funny how much easier that makes it

[edgy stone]

They just feel more fun honestly

Also I still think touch damage should never deal 2 masks of damage

[rare timber]

Is the reason why hornet is named hornet, despite being a spider stated? I mean bees already exist so hornets shouldn’t be too far off

[raven cove]

I think phantom could have gotten away with double damage and still have been a fun fight

[edgy stone]

Its the stupidest shit in the entire game

[raven cove]

Double contact damage sucks yeah

[golden quarry]

hornet's called hornet because she trained with the hive queen i think

[worthy knoll]

space control is a huge rhing and its why I love Lace 2 so much but its so bad for the maggot fights

[raven cove]

especially when bosses take up half the screen and move around constantly

[rare timber]

I see, must have missed that if it was in the first game

Since the needle she uses is ||hivesteel||

[edgy stone]

Its never stated but it was something the devs said after hk dropped

[rare timber]

Yeah it kinda makes sense now

[edgy stone]

Hornets upbringing is almost more confusing now

[rare timber]

Still she must have a real name then right? Something herrah named her

[worthy knoll]

honestly imaging if Hive was basegame

[edgy stone]

Also was vespa mjsding a hand?

[raven cove]

the three queens thing wasn’t canon in HK, this is a retcon

[rare timber]

Cause then hornet is a title ig

[plucky stratus]

How many acts are there in silksong?

[edgy stone]

I swear in the cutscene she didnt have a hand

[modern hollow]

maybe she just likes that name

[golden quarry]

was it not canon as in deconfirmed or just not stated cause ive talked to people about hk lore before and heard it talked about

[edgy stone]

Hornet mightve not been named by the hive but herrah couldve possibly been friends with Vespa and named her kid something derived from the hive

[edgy stone]

I dont think it was ever deconfirmed but was just realized unlikely

[rare timber]

I see that makes more sense. Still that makes me wonder if there is a difference between a bee and a wasp/hornet species

[edgy stone]

The 3 queens thing does raise a lot of questions

[raven cove]

It was cut content and the game made no reference to it, in fact Vespa says the Hive never interacted with the rest of the kingdom

[edgy stone]

Like hornet mustve had some relation with the pk right? If she was in the pale castle

[raven cove]

TC were asked about it in an AMA and gave some vague nothing answer about it being an old idea

[edgy stone]

I kinda like all the retcons honestly

They dont trample over too much

[raven cove]

The retcons are terrible and make no sense in context though

[golden quarry]

she has some dialogue about him in the hunter's log for the white palace pogo enemies you can find in her memory

[brittle wren]

oh man its Light Yagami, from #hk-lore !!

[raven cove]

Like Hivesteel is incoherent when you consider the Hive isn’t exactly established to be known for metalwork (most of their shit is made from wax/wood, with the only metal being a stolen bench) and they shouldn’t be making a weapon for someone with a completely different fighting style

[rare timber]

Doesn’t hive knight use a needle like nail?

[raven cove]

Herrah being a Weaver is also very strange when her entire thing was that she was a “common beast” who married into royalty

[golden quarry]

you just polish it again and it's palesteel anyway

[raven cove]

Weavers are not common beasts they also aren’t even native to deepnest

[edgy stone]

That was my main issue

I was very confused by hornet calling herself a weaver

[raven cove]

They also undermine PK’s role somewhat

[rare timber]

Should she call herself a pale being then? What exactly constitutes a pale being anyways?

[edgy stone]

Well hornet would just be a spider

[raven cove]

First by making GMS Wyrmlike and secondly by attributing Hornet’s abilities to her Weaver heritage when in HK she herself claims her Wyrm genes are the only reason for her powers

[edgy stone]

Herrah was always a spider but not a weaver

[raven cove]

Because she was… not a Weaver

Being half Wyrm is better anyway

idk why the game shys away from it

[rare timber]

Btw are the worm ways connected to the void at all? I’ve only played through the start of act 3 so idk if it’s a spoiler

[edgy stone]

She does mention a few abilities she gets from jt

Like aging and not having to eat

[raven cove]

But it’s mostly shit like not needing to eat and extended lifespan

Her actual magical abilities aren’t attributed to PK which is nonsensical and contradicts what she says in HK

This brings me to another thing I dislike

[edgy stone]

Her wyrm status is the only reason she can overtake the throne though right?

[raven cove]

In HK the Weavers were supposed to be smart spiders who couldn’t natively manipulate Soul like PK and his offspring and so used soul infused thread as a means of overcoming their limitations

They were also super skilled at crafting spells and shit

Then SS goes “no a god just gave them those powers actually”

[edgy stone]

I do dislike the grand mother

She just feels like nothing

[raven cove]

Design wise she’s cool lore wise she’s terrible

[edgy stone]

I dont think she exactly adds to a lot of characters either

I do like lace and phantoms involvement with her though

[raven cove]

Like a weird mashup of PK and Rad if you diluted everything about both characters

[edgy stone]

I just never found why she did any of it

[raven cove]

It’s literally silk radiance with pk soul powers

[edgy stone]

Like J mustve missed some lore or something

Because why the fuck was she doing anything she did

[golden quarry]

something about an infinite source of silk so lace doesnt die

quite interesting that seemingly a 3rd hk game is going to be hornet again

[wide raft]

Lets fuckin goooo

[raven cove]

That was quick

[edgy stone]

Oh hey only person to complete steel soul ive seen

[static lark]

wrong. zote prequel

[edgy stone]

Are the steel enemies in jt?

[raven cove]

Has anyone found the steel gang yet

[wide raft]

I got stupid greedy for that. I actually got three achievements at once

[edgy stone]

Yeah what are the differences if you found any

[static lark]

damn gg

[elder cobalt]

how tf?

so quick

[golden quarry]

nah other than passing of the ages ending with "to be continued" mush's final dialogue with hornet basically just says "maybe the next adventure you're on ill explain something"

[elder cobalt]

also congrats btw

[wide raft]

I also grabbed the ||cursed|| ending as well, and skipped getting double jump.

Let me tell you. do NOT skip double jump

I clutched the win at one mask left.

[edgy stone]

Wait you steel soul final boss with the twisted child?

Holy shit

[wide raft]

because if you get bad patterns her full room grab WILL get you, and with the curse, you can't heal

[golden quarry]

why the fuck would you not win steel soul without the child first

LMFAO

[wide raft]

because I was greedy.

[edgy stone]

That is just insanity

I mean you can just fight her twice

[static lark]

fucking insane but it worked so

[wide raft]

And didn't want to play regular mode again because I cleansed it in my main file

[golden quarry]

yeah but you gotta go for 100% anyway LOL might as well just fight gms twice

[wide raft]

But it's done. I can drop the panic play. I can just, take it easy and coast to the last 100 steel soul

Oh no no, I can use this same steel soul file and get 100 now

[trail stone]

Hello! Does somebody want to help a poor student get Silksong on Steam? After paying for my English exam I'm almost broke.

[edgy stone]

Also you can get twisted child wjthoht double jump?

[wide raft]

yep. It's a pain in the ass but doable

[edgy stone]

Insane

[wide raft]

Wanderer's crest is basically required until you get it for the more accurate pogos

and I didn't grab twisted until I beat lace the second time. Wanted to use it for as little time as possible

[golden quarry]

ill do steel soul after i script out this review probably

[edgy stone]

I dont think ill touch it

1 death feels too punishing for silksong

[raven cove]

tbf we said the same about HK

[wide raft]

But yeah, Double jump is absolutely a safety strategy

[static lark]

lace 2 harder than gms to be honest

[golden quarry]

i had to refight lost lace for the 100% and ages cheevos and it only took 2 tries so im confident i can no death all of it

[raven cove]

I’ll do the steel soul and speedrun achievements… eventually

[golden quarry]

you never realize just how much you've learned a fight once you beat it cuz you never fight them again to realize

[wide raft]

yeah and thankfully my route to get the third music was to dip through shitland and grab parry, makes her a lot easier

[raven cove]

If the steel gang isn’t in steel soul there goes my motivation to ever do it though

[wide raft]

which is steel gang again?

[raven cove]

sharpe

[golden quarry]

i assume the steel gang would be related to the silkeaters

maybe they replace that guy who grows them and have a wish related to it

[wide raft]

Potentially.

[edgy stone]

There has to be some differences

[wide raft]

I'll have to explore over there as I completely skipped that section and all world lore to get the sub 5 first

[golden quarry]

surely i will trade silkeaters with sharpe to get an item that gives me full soul

[edgy stone]

I feel like steel soul should have exclusive content as well

Otherwise you only do it for the achievement

[static lark]

after the insanity of lost lace I think I could do it

[wide raft]

I'll let you know as I play, I'm now able to go through Steel Soul rather relaxed (hah)

[static lark]

100% steel soul is a different story

[wide raft]

yeh that's my next project

[edgy stone]

I haven't even 100% the base game

[static lark]

me neither

[edgy stone]

I feel like even the 30 hour achievement is hard

[golden quarry]

i just finished 100% like 2 hours ago lol

[wide raft]

it's not too hard to sub 30 the 100%

[golden quarry]

took me 42 hours but getting that down to sub 30 would be egregiously easy considering how much time i wasted lol

[wide raft]

I managed it in just slightly under 25 hours

[edgy stone]

Okay that sounds good

Hollow knight I was able to get it in like 10

[wide raft]

and that was my first run too

[golden quarry]

i dont remember how long it took me since i did it on my hk steel soul file which i ended up doing p1-4 on

[edgy stone]

I dont thjnk I wasted that much time on bosses this playthrough either

Maybe like 1-3 hours at most

[static lark]

hollow knight I think I got the 100% speedrun acheivement casually on a replay

[edgy stone]

I did too right before ss dropped

[golden quarry]

it's easier to get the 100% speedrun achievement because 112% makes it more forgiving

[static lark]

right

[golden quarry]

grimm troupe is a fairly short quest and it gives 6 whole percent

[static lark]

6% whole percent

[wide raft]

but yeah

[viscid ridge]

Does anyone have a picture of the needle when it is fully upgraded? I want to see what it looks like

[wide raft]

Don't do what I did and stay up locked in, full gamer position (hunched over, eyes barely a foot from the screen) drinking a liter of coffee through a curly straw to keep focused.

Oh yeah sure. one sec. ,

[wide raft]

here ya go

[static lark]

this is how I beat lost lace though?

[wide raft]

that's how I beat steel soul in under 5 hours so, hell if it works for you, go for it

[golden quarry]

the last two needle upgrades are funny in general since it's literally just like oh yeah it's hivesteel and then you polish it and it's pale steel after all

[static lark]

maybe later

[golden quarry]

in the end it's always pale steel

[viscid ridge]

Woah it looks very cool, gives credence to the idea that Vespa trained hornet

[wide raft]

You see the honeycomb pattern at stage 3, and it's more orange/yellow. 4 is revealing that it's still made from pale ore like the nails from HK

[golden quarry]

yeah it feels weird to do it like that though just from like a

information perspective

[viscid ridge]

You dont happen to have a picture of that? I assumed that is what the final form would've looked like

[modern hollow]

maybe pale oil is made from the same kinda process or origin

[edgy stone]

Wonder if theres any reason behind grand mother being maskless

Has no face or nothing

[modern hollow]

im wondering her hair routine

[viscid ridge]

Maybe has something to do with mask maker lore, we do know there is another mask maker in pharloom too

[golden quarry]

im not super opposed to hive getting retconned considering how egregiously it was just mostly scrapped before release

[viscid ridge]

Oh yeah thats definitely hive related. Whats it called in its final form? Just Pure Needle or something?

[wide raft]

Pale oil is from a specific gland certain bugs make, Kind of looks like a round white aphid.

Pale ore on the other hand is forged from solidified Wyrm blood.

I believe it's the Pale Needle.

[golden quarry]

one sec im just opening the game

[wide raft]

I'd have to fire up my other file to check and im still locked in

[golden quarry]

pale steel needle yeah

the description still refers to it as hivesteel though so i just kinda have no clue what to make of it

[modern hollow]

did we find out what those bugs look like

[wide raft]

Hivesteel is very specifically a forging process. they mention it after the second upgrade

[golden quarry]

ah fair enough i forgot description 3

[toxic hinge]

is sherma shakra's master?

[golden quarry]

no

[wide raft]

But all knightly weapons in hallownest are made from pale ore because it's in abundance with the pale king's old body decomposing all around it

[viscid ridge]

Nah he looks like a fat bugger, but i haven't completed her quest yet

[toxic hinge]

aight, its just that sherma is wise ngl, and seems always ahead of shakra

[golden quarry]

sherma is not wise that's a child

[viscid ridge]

I doubt the pale ore has to do with the pale king specifically, but its probably caused by something powerful that we dont know of yet.

[modern hollow]

he made the pilgrimage as a child i think thats enough credit to his skills

[toxic hinge]

sherma is the positivity master

[modern hollow]

yk i always wondered with the amount of spikes and pits everywhere in pharloom how do all the non winged pilgrims make it up there

[wide raft]

I mean It makes sense if you think about it though, No other kingdom that we know of has a Wyrm that decended to live among them, And all the vessels that didn't instantly die had one, Makes sense that the king would give his spawn the best weapons possible

[wide raft]

All the pins have a loop on the end, Good for hooking onto silk threads and going down them like a rapel

[golden quarry]

it's interesting how like. normal pharloom mask maker is

[viscid ridge]

I dont mean their weapons i mean the ore itselfz cause we find it in places that wouldve been there before the pale king came

[modern hollow]

yea going down but it doesnt realy make climbing that much easier i suppose

maybe the bugs are just really good climbers

[golden quarry]

a lot of travelling pharloom is more horizontal than vertical

you're kinda scaling a mountain by going up a winding path

[viscid ridge]

Also while you mention other kingdoms, we learned about 4 new kingdoms other than Hallownest and Pharloom in the last area of the game

[golden quarry]

we do

[modern hollow]

it also shows how many weaver civilizations existed in general

i wonder if that has any significance

[viscid ridge]

Yeahz but they aren't pure weaver, most of them seem to be 8th or 4th diluted

[wide raft]

We find it in places before the pale 'king' came. But they were a wyrm long before they were king. Scrapes, cuts, and injuries could still appear over time and they were absolutely massive.

And we never find it in more than small clusters at a time, sounds to me like congealed blood droplets.

[modern hollow]

i mean it was bound to happen eventually but regardless there is still that widespread weaver influence throughout the entire planet

[urban lantern]

where does that show up? i've been to the last area and didn't see anything like that

[modern hollow]

none of those bugs were pure weaver and neither was hornet

[wide raft]

Mr Mushroom lore stuff

[viscid ridge]

I know we get a memory of herrah in act 3, but i haven't been at that part of the game yet, so i assume Hornet is half weaver (which is much better that the others) and she is half wyrm making her more powerful

[wide raft]

Also Hornet isn't pure weaver, but Wyrm blood is like a boost instead of a degredation. so she's essentially a pure weaver on coke

[modern hollow]

shes a huntsman spider basically

[viscid ridge]

In the room with the cages, they mention 4 other kingdoms

[modern hollow]

and those are friends

[golden quarry]

it's weird because it doesnt really say herrah is a weaver right actually

all the chozo statues say she's a distant relation

[urban lantern]

man i mighta just straight up missed that room?

[golden quarry]

wish i had more of an eiditic memory for some of the dialogue it'd be useful for this pre-wiki cataloguing of analyzing the entire game's dialogue

[viscid ridge]

Thats whats strange to me, because i dont think herrah is a weaver based on the mushrooms, but she did seem to be important to them

[modern hollow]

if herrah wasnt really a weaver how would hornet inherit those skills of the weavers

[viscid ridge]

Yeah thats whats confusing to me?

So she must be a weaver, and the mushrooms are lying or something

[urban lantern]

i was wondering the same thing, i initially thought Herra wasn't a weaver, and by extention Hornet wasn't truly a "weaver" but this seems to contradict that belief

[modern hollow]

like does this mean the weaver skills can be trained to those who are technically higher beings or something?

[viscid ridge]

Or maybe the mushrooms dont know the extent of the weavers powers

[wide raft]

So: Weavers have a hierarchy. The round faced ones are considered 'noble" but ther ones with more detailed masks are "Lowborn" Herrah was lowborn but her mate before they died was the weaver in charge of deepnests colony. He married Herrah but they died before they could have a child. Hence Herrah being titled "the beast" instead of the weaver, as she was a lowborn who climbed to queen, and everyone believed she killed her husband. Part of the reason why she wanted to become a dreamer. She'd finally have a child and also be able to help protect the land her mate wanted to colonize.

[golden quarry]

i guess the implication from the one cutscene for first sinner might be that it's pale king's genetics having a similar process to supercharge even a child of a lowborn spider/weaver like hornet

[wide raft]

and the reason she was the only weaver in deepnest was because the rest of the colony abandoned her. She was queen of the weavers in a land of no weavers essentially

[modern hollow]

i suppose the weaver civilization would have a heirarchy

i still wonder about all of those placements of the weavernests tho especially the one at the abyss

[wide raft]

the biggest boost from Wyrm blood in someone's system is the ability to freely use soul. And Silk is a method weavers have that allows them to use soul 'through' it. So Hornet can use soul in both ways which makes her rather terrifying. Especially as she's essentially immortal until something kills her because of it.

If you remember the soul sanctuary in Hallownest, other bugs had to sacrifice each other in droves to give 'one' the ability to use a single soul art.

[golden quarry]

my main hk lore friend is still getting through the game so it's nice to be able to finally talk about it lol

[modern hollow]

would make sense yea

but if silk is how soul is used by the weavers then how woudl that work exactly when other enemies use it

would the silk be a "manifestation" of soul or something else

[wide raft]

it's 'a' manifestation

[modern hollow]

kinda like how theres many different ways to make bread

[wide raft]

Silk is a physical representation, while Soul is the spiritual.

[golden quarry]

yeah this explaination definitely makes it sound more like silksong is recontextualization for the low amount of info we had on weavers rather than an overt retcon

[modern hollow]

so youre telling me grandmother silk is the soul master master

[wide raft]

Grandmother Silk is a Weaver, all her abilities are silk based. Nobody was sacrificed to her for her powers. But others sacrifice 'to' her as with age her silk production is slowing down. She can't keep up with the demand

[viscid ridge]

Wait holy shit i just saw, daughter of the 3 queens backstory is canon thank god 🥳🥳

[modern hollow]

it sounded funnier in my head

[wide raft]

Spoiler ahead ||Lace|| is essentially a Vessel made from Silk and Soul instead of Void and Soul

[viscid ridge]

Is grandmother silk the creator of the weavers, same with how the radiance created the moths? Or am i missing something, i maybe dont have the full context?

[modern hollow]

wouldnt that also apply to the ||phantom|| as well or is that another case

[wide raft]

Phantom is a failed prototype.

[golden quarry]

the haunting of pharloom has only seemed to massively increase in severity following the need to sustain lace

[wide raft]

She's not a god. Just a very old very powerful weaver who wanted her own child

[modern hollow]

yea i figured that i just didnt know if it was also a creation of soul as well as silk

[cloud plover]

now we need a vessel of void and silk

[wide raft]

We have one

[cloud plover]

i meant void

[wide raft]

We have many

[modern hollow]

we need a 3 way triangle of this

[cloud plover]

who

[wide raft]

the Hollow Knight, The Ghost, the broken vessels. Literally all the siblings in the abyss.

[viscid ridge]

Really? She seems very godlike to me, she even has her own title card and halo

[wide raft]

those are all vessels of void and soul

[cloud plover]

i said silk and void

[modern hollow]

they meant silk in particular not soul

albeit similar functions very differently

[cloud plover]

yee

[wide raft]

Wouldn't be possible there'd be no will. soul is will. it'd just be a doll

[cloud plover]

i see

next we’ll get a vessel of all three

[golden quarry]

do we think true ending is still leaving it ambigious at what ending this is continuation of or is it just ||dream no more||

[cloud plover]

this

[wide raft]

That's because people worship her and treat her like one, Doesn't mean she is one. If you also look, her limbs are no longer organic, She's held together by machinery just like many others in the citadel.

[cloud plover]

i thought lace would be that at first because of the black face

[golden quarry]

the appearance of ||shade lord when hornet was looking at void given form still makes me think the godhome endings are at least on the table||

[wide raft]

The delicate flower is how we got down there.

[modern hollow]

considering its prolly ||the same kinda flower|| then yea

that honestly makes me wonder if zemer travelled to pharloom in the past

[wide raft]

it was just the true essence of it instead of a weakened version like the one we transport in HK

[golden quarry]

i mean yeah the everbloom is how we got down there that doesn't immediately mean silksong's a continuation from delicate flower

[wide raft]

No no no. Look at the close ups.

[modern hollow]

it has pretty similar power of being able to ward off higher beings or primoridial forces

[wide raft]

It's quite literally the same flower. Even given by the same person. if you brought the delicate flower to the White lady, she says "Oh for me? Thank you but I don't need this, it's a pale imitation of the real one." Or something like that

[golden quarry]

im confused though how that would mean silksong's story is a sequel to specifically the delicate flower variant of embrace the void

[wide raft]

Silksong 'is' a sequel

a direct one.

but Hornet never embraced the void. She simply needed a shield to get through it. There just so happens to be an entity within the void that likes her and decided "This one can live."

[jolly bronze]

Is it a direct one? From what I've come to understand the events of silksong are implied to take place long after the events of HK

[modern hollow]

yea pretty much

[wide raft]

I mean yeah it's a few years later, but it's still a direct sequel unless we get filler stories later

[golden quarry]

i feel like im just missing something here i understand it's a direct sequel i know the flowers are the same i am just confused how we could say it is unambigiously continuing from embrace the void and not dream no more

[modern hollow]

i mean we still dont know how pharloom finds and captures all those weavers

[wide raft]

Technically it's a continuation of the Godholm ending.

[golden quarry]

yes i understand that

i am just saying as a direct sequel i do not know anything that distinctly proves silksong is continuing from the godhome ending and not just dream no more, especially considering the hollow knight surviving and leaving the egg was not followed up on in this game in any capacity

[modern hollow]

i still wonder if the lord of shades thing is simply a powerful being in the abyss with power to manipulate it or is an extension of a higher being if u get what i mean

[jolly bronze]

I want to assume it's something to do with song - when using the nedoline near enemies it puts them in a trance - possible maybe some sort of device to amplify the range of the song - ||maybe something to do with the thousands of choir statues in clockwork core||

[drowsy mortar]

The Silk Mother seems to be able to sense her, in one Choral Commandment you can see her arranging her capture

[modern hollow]

so they could potentially see all the weavers around the world?

[drowsy mortar]

Most likely yes

[jolly bronze]

I was moreso thinking they could play a song and attract weavers to come to them - or nearby and capture them eventually

[modern hollow]

i wonder if that means they have their own version of Farsight that we get

[jolly bronze]

although now that I think about this that seems unlikely since we know they went to hollownest to capture Hornet - which implies that they send troops out to capture weavers

[scenic granite]

this is the best game ive ever played

[modern hollow]

yea they send out the envoy guys to capture the weavers

[wide raft]

Because we didn't see the Hollow Knight, but we did see the Shadelord, As well as all the siblings. As considering the final scene in HK shows potentially the Hollow Knight meeting Hornet outside the Black Egg, it stands to reason that they're still alive in some capacity. If it followed any other ending, it stands to reason we would have also seen the Hollow Knight's shade.

By destroying absolute radiance. we completely removed the chance of it ever returning as a god on the foundational level. While if we just destroy it in the other endings as Radience. We're just breaking it apart, the light floats away and isn't completely smothered.

[modern hollow]

we saw that theres a casualty count in the cages up in the cradle

[wide raft]

Also in regards to an earlier question "Well we need something made of void and silk" have you not seen act three? that's all over the place and literally destroying the land.

[golden quarry]

ok thank you mentioning we should've seen thk's shade completely solved ambiguity that for me

[jolly bronze]

I mean it's entirely possible - they literally just send out troops to roam to nearby kingdoms to look for Weavers - and they've just been doing that for ages - although in order to have as much silk as possible some tool to locate Weavers would be needed - perhaps Weavers working with ||Grand Mother Silk|| ? Since we see at the starting cutscene Hornet is being escorted BY Weavers

[modern hollow]

we were talking bout a living being like ghost or lace not neccessarily the abilities she uses

[golden quarry]

no she wasnt being escorted by weavers she was being escorted by some of the higher ups in the chapal

[wide raft]

No no. If silk is corrupted by void. It gets messy and unstable. they're like matter and antimatter. It's also why Lace can't actually be corrupted. She can be covered in it, but she can't be consumed by it. Unlike literally anything else

[golden quarry]

it's why all the void infected creatures use similar attacks

[modern hollow]

i thought void enhanced the current abilities and interactions with other things like how soul spells work and are upgraded

[golden quarry]

no as we found out here that was just the shaman snails' specific fascination with void leading to those spells

[jolly bronze]

I saw big white head and my brain assumed it was weavers oh my bloody goodness

[wide raft]

That's specifically for the Ghost and that's because they're 'made' of void and soul. Hornet doesn't get any void upgrades

[modern hollow]

yea thats just an example i could think of

[golden quarry]

first time in awhile ive heard anyone refer to the knight as the ghost

[wide raft]

I mean that's their name

[modern hollow]

thats their canon name

[golden quarry]

oh

[modern hollow]

i will always call them as little ghost

[golden quarry]

i have literally never heard of people refering to them as that before today

it's always just the knight

[modern hollow]

hornet called them ghost on their first encounter

[wide raft]

Hornet herself calls them "little ghost"

[golden quarry]

yes i know that

[jolly bronze]

Unrelated to the current conversation but has anyone seen any refrences to the Radiance in Silksong at all? Have they dropped any bits of lore towards it at all?

[wide raft]

Radiance is dead and dusted nobody knows about them

[golden quarry]

radiance did not get shit iirc lol

[modern hollow]

yea the radiance had her biggest fear to be forgotten made light

[golden quarry]

she was a forgotten god of an already forgotten kingdom that forgot her even longer ago

[modern hollow]

nobody in pharloom knew about her existence cuz there were no moths in there

[jolly bronze]

😔 i just want more lore about the higher beings

[wide raft]

only real reference is Hornet going "I've seen gods die."

[golden quarry]

hk 3 surely

[modern hollow]

speaking of higher beings i vote to call the abyss/shade lord a "lower being" cuz theyre low to the earth

[wide raft]

based on the expanded lore and what Mr Mushroom goes on about, high chance for a HK3

[golden quarry]

oh have you not

new ages ending literally says to be continued

[wide raft]

that could just be dlc

as there's the third slot open in difficulty selection when you unlock steel soul

[golden quarry]

possibly but there's also his other dialogue basically just telling hornet he might explain something next adventure

[modern hollow]

considering we know that ||hornet is alive in the true ending|| then maybe theres some continuation on that front

[golden quarry]

it could be dlc but unless that dlc takes place past sister of void and also retcons mush's to be continued which is quite a lot tbh it just means hk 3 is not even just on the table it is the table

[modern hollow]

and by god we will be eating

[golden quarry]

Yeah when im 30

[modern hollow]

considering the largest hurdle is out of the way theyll just need to think of where to go from here

[void raven]

I’m very curious if we do get a way to redo boss fights like in godhome how that would be done

[modern hollow]

prolly needolin at something

[exotic pewter]

yeah i feel like its not over yet after ||that cutscene||

[golden quarry]

im definitely not opposed to hk3 being another hornet game id just wonder how we even outdo the current roster of tools and trinkets without treading the same ground over and over

which like metroid does that but idk

[wide raft]

I mean

[modern hollow]

maybe could be played from laces perspective?

[exotic pewter]

so the ||infection and lifeblood werent that different after all????||

[wide raft]

tools degrade over time, just make it many years later, as I said. Hornet's functionally immortal until someone kills her

[exotic pewter]

i feel like hornet needs heaps of big dlcs (bigger than all the hollow knight ones) but hk3 needs to be new and unique

[golden quarry]

my opposition isnt to hornet losing her skills i love metroidvanias idgaf about what thinly veiled bullshit a writer has to use to reduce a character back to 0 i just mean after hk to ss being this massive in the department of changes i cant currently imagine hk3 just being similar to ss in terms of systems and tools

[wide raft]

I mean hell

[golden quarry]

ill probably warm up to it soon though lol, already am even

[wide raft]

the next game could follow Lace. Who knows

[modern hollow]

what bout shakra honestly

[manic jewel]

is the city of ||steel referring to hollownest or am I jus stupid?||

[modern hollow]

i mean we only know of her and ||the tribe leader we find at the trails end||

[bronze mantle]

yo can anyone help me? ⁠ss-help isnt helping/helpful

[wide raft]

Hallownest had no real metalworks,

[golden quarry]

any name referring to hallownest as a city of steel would 100% call it a city of pale steel

[jolly bronze]

City of Steel maybe referring to White Palace?

[wide raft]

the white palace is not made of metal

it's like marble. Painful marble.

[exotic pewter]

||idk but those cages felt very lore important tho||

[exotic pewter]

with the amount of saws it practically is

[modern hollow]

maybe the saws are also made of rock we just never seen them spin slowly

[manic jewel]

all of them are talking about capturing weavers

[jolly bronze]

There's definitely a ton of metal making up the white palace along with Marble, I doubt there's any city in the world of HK just entirely made of steel

[modern hollow]

mayeb thats where the steel assassin comes in (coping)

[exotic pewter]

ye

[golden quarry]

i mean idk did you see how steampunk the citadel is

[manic jewel]

I mean the picture clearly says city of steel🤓

[modern hollow]

thats more brass than steel

[golden quarry]

yeah but im saying that a city made of metal is not farfetched when silksong involves you going through a city this egregiously steampunk

[wide raft]

from the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh. it disgusted me

[modern hollow]

has somebody made a map size comparison between hallownest and pharloom im curious on the scale

[wide raft]

im not saying it's far fetched. I just mean, It's not Hallownest.

[exotic pewter]

I suspect its a different city

[golden quarry]

i didnt say you were i was responding to ducky saying it was farfetched

[manic jewel]

it most likely is ngl

[modern hollow]

considering the other cages have different cities it wouldnt be that surprising

[exotic pewter]

hk 3 = hornet running around different kingdoms gathering weavers 😄

[wide raft]

and losing her pants. again

[exotic pewter]

crazy

[modern hollow]

hey it could be worse

[golden quarry]

hk 3 being a zote game is low chance but never ever zero

[exotic pewter]

what if

quirrel back story

[modern hollow]

thats in a comic

[exotic pewter]

but like i wanna play as quirrel so idrc if its already explained

what if hk 3 is this #sk-lore message but 1-2 player multiplayer hornet/the knight

Idk i just want in built multiplayer lol

[wide raft]

knight's gone.

[exotic pewter]

it's shade still exists

[golden quarry]

unlike silksong we've got nearly nothing to go off of

[exotic pewter]

its not dead

[wide raft]

Gone. not dead.

And they're not a shade. that's what 'hornet' sees them as

[exotic pewter]

gotta wait for the release trailer at this point

[wide raft]

they're much too big to be playable now.

[opaque spade]

Quirrel game, but its a rpg of his time as a student of monomon???

[golden quarry]

oh wait was that what the flash of shade lord was actually supposed to give the impression of

[exotic pewter]

they are literally a contained shade tho

[wide raft]

No. That's what Hornet sees them as. You see their true form for a moment when she blinks.

[worthy knoll]

honestly dont know what a third game could be

but I have an idea of dlc content

[golden quarry]

sorry i usually refer to void given focus as shade lord (i know void given focus is also referred to as that)

[exotic pewter]

i swear in ||true ending part 2|| that was ||the knight's shade idk tho it was reminiscent of the one that was the knight's in the original|| either that or im going crazy

[wide raft]

This is not contained.

This is their true form now

[golden quarry]

read what mediph is saying a bit more yes we do see void given form knight but the flash of void given focus is most likely what the knight actually is now

[exotic pewter]

huh

[modern hollow]

Rts game where you play as citadel people managing pharloom

[exotic pewter]

its been a while since i played the original endings so idk

[golden quarry]

void given form is the dream no more knight killing radiance and void given focus is the end of p5 knight that kills abs radiance

[exotic pewter]

but dream no more is cannon ending isnt it?

[modern hollow]

I feel like if there had to be another game in the universe I would like one based around the moth tribe and seer

[half dirge]

anyone figured the 6th ending yet?

[wide raft]

Dream no More is not the true ending.

that's the "you did it, but it could have been done better" godholm is considered canon now based on what we've seen

[golden quarry]

we were talking about this earlier, most likely not because we'd see the hollow knight's shade in the flash of the shades behind the knight

[wide raft]

We only see a buttload of siblings

[golden quarry]

but because thk's shade isnt there they're most likely still alive

[exotic pewter]

i guess so but it looked like the knight from dream no more not the knight from p5

[wide raft]

holy shit dude.

[modern hollow]

Yk im kinda surprised they didn't put a zote easter egg in one of those sibling images

[golden quarry]

he probably just doesnt remember that part of the ending

[exotic pewter]

as i said its been over a year

[golden quarry]

nonono i mean

[wide raft]

How many times do we have to say "that's what they look like to hornet" You literally see their true form when she blinks. We've said that like four times

[modern hollow]

I was told there is a zote easter egg in pharloom as well so

[exotic pewter]

i play with QoL mod and it autoskips cutscenes

[golden quarry]

the new true ending have you seen the new true ending

[wide raft]

yeah zote can be seen in the background of the howling cliffs bell station

[exotic pewter]

which new true ending?

[golden quarry]

sister of void

[exotic pewter]

oh yeah i have

[golden quarry]

ok you remember in that when hornet is looking at the knight there's a flash of void given focus. that's what we're talking about

[exotic pewter]

but i wasnt really watching i was half asleep lol ill go beat the boss again and then complain

sorry about my idiocy xD

[willow flicker]

Guys why is lace lying there seducingly

[wide raft]

Lace is lady thiccums mcdumpy now.

[modern hollow]

She's 3 apples tall

[wide raft]

and two wide at the hips

[golden quarry]

this still means disappointly that embrace the void | delicate flower hasn't really been explained but we know a bit more now

and can extrapolate more info

[half dirge]

💔

[exotic pewter]

also sorry by contained i meant when it was in vessel form

[willow flicker]

I mean, i expected an epic meeting. And they even made a cutscene

[exotic pewter]

actually kinda same tbh it just ended with ||"oh yeah u saved her that happened THE END THERES NO MORE NEW CONTENT I WONT EVEN FIX THE MAP FOR YOU"||

[blazing elm]

does the mask maker in mount fay mean we could have the little ghost as dlc character in the future? ( his old mask is broken in dream no more)

[urban lantern]

anyone got pictures of the messages from those cages referencing other kingdoms?

[exotic pewter]

no and im in act 3 so i cant anymore 😭

[pine vapor]

Hey

I have a question

[urban lantern]

we might have answers

[exotic pewter]

why u asking here

and u cant

[pine vapor]

Noooooo

[urban lantern]

a shame i know

[exotic pewter]

💀

[pine vapor]

Yeah a filthy casual

[exotic pewter]

ok i think thats enough being on discord for one day

[urban lantern]

what implication does nude hornet have on the lore relating to hollow knight

[pine vapor]

I should have go to ss help

[blazing elm]

press l3 and r3 for self destruct ur self then u play as naked hornet

[pine vapor]

Cause I need help

[urban lantern]

i get that reference

[pine vapor]

@blazing elm I saw it for a split second when I died

Crazy

@exotic pewter lol this server is very family friendly

[exotic pewter]

most of the time

[blazing elm]

joking aside there is naked mod on nexus i belive

[whole holly]

guys, how do i reach citadel i don't want to go though blasted steps

is there other way

[exotic pewter]

didnt need to know that but thanks 💀

[exotic pewter]

go ask #sk-help

not here

[whole holly]

no answers

in ss help

[pine vapor]

@blazing elm im not someone who will "press it"

(Menacing laugh that lace makes when I die to her)

[urban lantern]

i love how lace does the Ojou-sama laugh when she beats your ass

[blazing elm]

Technically you can skip it if you rescue enough flea and hitch a ride with the caravan but idk if that's possible

[whole holly]

i did hitch i ride though carravan,

[urban lantern]

it isn't possible, you need to beat ||Last Judge|| before they move to the gate

[whole holly]

omg thanks they went from marrow to palce i don't remember

[light tree]

don't they go to greymoor

[exotic pewter]

I CANNOT BEAT THIS STUPID BOSS

last resort time we're going ranged crest

[blazing elm]

They did skip moorwing tho so idk about last judge

[golden quarry]

can you not go through exhaust to get there

[urban lantern]

yea you might technically be able to get there through exaust organ

do you need double jump to make it to exaust organ though?

[golden quarry]

Not technically i think it's explicitly designed to be a faster route

since you can avoid all bells

[urban lantern]

speaking of Exaust organ, ||Phantom is also made entirely of Silk, just like Lace, right?||

[golden quarry]

yyyyyes

[exotic pewter]

alr so beat the boss again i saw what ur talking about

also wouldnt dream no more and whatever the godhome one is both be cannon since 1. has to occur for 2. to occur?

[golden quarry]

yeah when you're given the idea it's hornet seeing what the ghost is actually like now it makes more sense since otherwise it's a jarring and random flash

Dream no more isnt required to access godhome

[urban lantern]

Godhome is completely seperate from DNM

[exotic pewter]

yeah i forgot that its like voidheart my bad

been a while

[golden quarry]

dw most people forget that lol

[exotic pewter]

i'd personally believe both are cannon tho

because the infection doesn't die in the godhome ending does it?

[golden quarry]

it does

[urban lantern]

it does

[golden quarry]

you super duper kill radiance in godhome

[exotic pewter]

huhhhhh im really lost now xD

[golden quarry]

absolute radiance is even more radiance than what's contained in thk

[exotic pewter]

need to turn off QoL cutscene skip

[urban lantern]

you watch the infection drain out of the vines in Embrace the Void before THK wanders out of the black egg in front of hornet

[exotic pewter]

sorry what????? imma go look up the ending on youtube rq because i dont remember that last part

embrace the void flower? or normal

[golden quarry]

it's still kinda ambigious if it's etv or delicate flower but it's probably safe to assume it's delicate flower

[exotic pewter]

alr

[urban lantern]

both show that part i think

[golden quarry]

Yeah

[exotic pewter]

wait is that thing at the end that kills the radiance the knight? i always thought it was another shade entity

[urban lantern]

yea Delicate Flower seems like it would make the most sense. Hornet would return to hallownest after Pharloom is saved if we had the ability to do that. And if EtV was the true ending, Hallownest would be covered in Void just as bad as Pharloom

[golden quarry]

she would definitely make mention of etv if it happened since the implication is something Very Bad is about to happen to hallownest

[exotic pewter]

never thought about the fact that the void turned out to be as evil as the light lol

[urban lantern]

it's the void collectively destroying the radiance, but the knight is what gathered the void in godhome in the first place

[exotic pewter]

altho i more thought it was the way the void interacted with silk that caused the destruction of Pharloom

[golden quarry]

the more interesting thing would be that most people assumed delicate flower killed void given focus but seemingly it just sent ghost's mind back to the abyss

[urban lantern]

yea i was very surprised to see how absurdly destructive void could be

[exotic pewter]

unless.... the void wouldn't affect hallownest?

its like the void's home kingdom or smth right?

[urban lantern]

yea Everblooms seem to not actually completely destroy void but rather just repel it

[urban lantern]

well the fact that it's under Pharloom seems to suggest that it's a world-spanning phenomenon

[exotic pewter]

i mean the Pale Wyrm seems to be able to "Control" it, and yes, he's dead, but the seals still remain with no silk to bind it. Unless that's the feature of the infection, and in reality it's fending off the void

[golden quarry]

fair assumption but it has a similar name to void given form implying it should be the same kind of transformation just much stronger and whole

[exotic pewter]

i kinda thought the Pale Wyrm's kingdom was sorta where the void was really created/given power but idk anymore lol

[golden quarry]

actually it's funny there's a hunter's log entry for the white palace pogo enemies since they're in hornet's memory and she calls pale king an idiot for thinking void was able to be controlled

[urban lantern]

yea i noticed that lol

[exotic pewter]

i mean he did control it tho