sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

Sly does say "Geo" though

[terse wadi]

Batimas Geo

[terse wadi]

Of course he does, it's his entire personality

[lethal burrow]

an interview.

back in the old days when those were still a thing that they did

[terse wadi]

They might do one post release

[formal imp]

do we think we might see iselda fight in silksong? back when she still used her weapon?

[spark valve]

No

[formal imp]

very elaborate response

[olive stag]

"back when" isn't necessarily accurate, we don't know whether silksong is a sequel or prequel

[formal imp]

i feel like its pretty obvious its a prequel

call a spade a spade

[terse wadi]

Bait used to be believeable

[lethal burrow]

One can hope

[visual glacier]

is silksong the final boss of silksong

[lethal burrow]

Yes, did you not see the YouTube images of the hollow Knight with its cloak painted red?

[terse wadi]

The final boss is clearly Milksong

[visual glacier]

is the final boss named "Hollow Knight: Silksong"

first name hollow knight middle name : last name silkssong

[formal imp]

me?

half-lore; what do you guys think the path of pain silksong equivalent will be and what type of lore do you think could be revealed at the end?

[terse wadi]

No guarentee we'd get one, but it'd be cool

[terse wadi]

Plenty of things in fact most things point to sequel

[formal imp]

i think its only logical for there to be a magnum opus platforming level

[terse wadi]

I just think SS platforming will be more difficult in general

[formal imp]

if they did it for hollow knight they would make one for silksong, especially when you imagine how much fun they would likely be having with it

[formal imp]

i agree, thats why im scared, one thing though is the game has grappling and slopes, and also doesnt have the traditional pogo

[terse wadi]

Lowkey think Citadel platforming will be harder than all of PoP

[olive stag]

citadel platforming looks difficult in the few screenshot we've seen, and since those are only the starting points ....

[formal imp]

if its a sequel that implies one of the 5 endings needs to be the canonical "real" ending

[olive stag]

im scared!!!

[edgy nebula]

i doubt it

[olive stag]

not this again

[visual glacier]

big doubt

[formal imp]

its my first time here, im not familiar with the counter arguments yet

[visual glacier]

AN ENDING CAN GET A SEQUEL WITHOUT INVALIDATING THE OTHERS

[edgy nebula]

lets talk about how in 4 days itll be revealed that sharpe isnt and will never be void

[olive stag]

none of the endings affect silksong's starting point (hornet being captured)

[formal imp]

not impossible, as anything is, but unlikely

[edgy nebula]

sealed siblings tbf

[visual glacier]

id perfer a sequel over prequel ngl

[formal imp]

void taking over the world and fighting her

[terse wadi]

no it doesn't

[olive stag]

we've seen there's a way to break seals, so someone could've broken her out of there

[visual glacier]

a sequel of dream no more would make the most sense because to most people its the "true ending" and there arent many loose threads

[olive stag]

doesn't mean she can't escape in time and get captured in the process

[terse wadi]

First off, They already said all endings are canon, second, SS is standalone and will likely not reference HK endings or anything much of HK at all unless it pertains to Hornets backstory

[formal imp]

if the sequel theory is true the most satisfying ending is normal radiance ending

[olive stag]

i agree, but it doesn't really matter for silksong - it happens either way

[terse wadi]

Any ending where Radiance dies is satisfying

[formal imp]

or delicate flower hallownest pantheon

[olive stag]

radiance haters rise 🆙

[sinful nimbus]

present

[visual glacier]

not a big fan of standalone silksong but alright

[formal imp]

i dont think silksong would be able to happen with void nuking the world

[terse wadi]

sigh that's not happening though

[formal imp]

its a bit of a (elden ring ending name spoiler) ||flame of frenzy ending|| sitation

[olive stag]

void doesn't nuke the world ... it doesn't necessarily overtake everything

[formal imp]

so the "correct ending" is narrowed down

i think delicate flower is possible, and equally as satisfying as dream no more

[terse wadi]

The only thing Etv shows is SL escaping the dreamworld, and void is reactionary so unless attacked it won't attack back also since TK is controlling SL even more reason for it to not just attack anything and everything for no reason, second TK has no clue how to get to Pharloom

[tawdry flare]

The Lord of Shades is a benevolent creature and We all know this

[terse wadi]

Not really, The void just doesn't go out of control like you say

[formal imp]

sealed siblings is just weird, and the hollow knight is too simple and incomplete for the full lore that exists

[formal imp]

so its one of these two

[terse wadi]

Yet still canon, like the rest

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong is a spinoff story, no ending is relevant

[formal imp]

what is your point?

[terse wadi]

There is no "True" ending

[olive stag]

it doesn't need to be. it's up to interpretation what is most correct for you. silksong happens no matter the ending

that's the whole reason why team cherry has said all endings are canon

[terse wadi]

HK functions on branching timelines, every time you make a choice, like saving zote or doing the grimm troupe ritual, the endings are no different they all happen

[olive stag]

you can think of the ""true"" timeline as the one you chose basically

[sullen goblet]

How would silksong work with sealed siblings though

[terse wadi]

Sealbreaker bugs

Man, if I took a shot everytime I had to say that I'd be dead

[olive stag]

we see a butterfly break hornet's cage's seal in the silksong teaser, so there are powers that break seals

[sullen goblet]

Ah

[terse wadi]

I'm curious who sent it, to the cage I mean

[olive stag]

i really like the lace theory

adds a lot of mystery to her character

[terse wadi]

Perhaps

[olive stag]

she has an animation conducting some similar butterfly things, so seems plausible

[terse wadi]

I'm aware

[glad mantle]

Apart of me wonders if any Dream Bosses could appear, I mean most likley won't happen, but there is a small window for it to happen.

[formal imp]

thats simply quite unsatisfying if silksong being a sequel is canon, because that means an entire section of lore is being neglected. like saying "they all work i guess" just seems like lazy writing and makes the endings seem inconsequential when theyre supposed to be nothing but the opposite

the hollow knight is pretty much a less lore developed version of dream no more (hence 100% completion vs 112%).
void losing to hornet makes little sense.
hornet escaping "sealed siblings" is lazy writing as it nullifies any actual meaning behind them actually being sealed, or the seal being powerful.

theres also the problem of if another civilisation exists why did they only capture hornet after the events of the knight in hallownest, why now all of a sudden? wouldnt it make more sense for silksong to take place in the past which so much lore hints to and references?

[terse wadi]

How exactly, Hornet can't access dreams

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest's story is concluded

[terse wadi]

Not really, HK won't be addressed in Silksong

[formal imp]

i think they said this because hollow knight is the ending to the series in a very similar way to elden ring endings

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong has no reason to continue it's story

[formal imp]

i think thats poor writing if they do make it a sequel

[sinful nimbus]

Also the weavers only recently fled hallownest which is probably how the Citadel found out about Hornet's existence explaining why SS takes place in the present

[formal imp]

if they did make it a sequel i think that would be near impossible

it would need to be referenced

[sinful nimbus]

Its a spinoff those aren't bad writing

[tawdry flare]

It’s it’s on own game why would that be bad writing

[vestal swan]

Non-existent window

[sinful nimbus]

Bad writing is forcing the story of another kingdom into a completely unrelated one when there's no good reason to do so

[olive stag]

silksong is meant to be its own game, self-contained. despite being part of the same universe, TC has expressed they want players to be able to play silksong and fully enjoy the experience without needing to play HK. does this mean there won't be mentions of HK? absolutely not, it just means they're two separate games

[sinful nimbus]

Oh like they did with Arcane Eggs

[terse wadi]

How? all it means is it transpires after HK, there's no need to connect a different games story to this one

[tawdry flare]

Everbloom….

[formal imp]

because they take place in the same world with overlapping characters, hornets father is the pale king, him (only using him as one example among many) not being a part of hallownest would be leaving out vital lore

[olive stag]

also we just straight up don't know so it's not really valid to get torn up about something that didn't even happen lol

[tawdry flare]

????????????????????

[sinful nimbus]

PK is dead

[terse wadi]

Hallownest is just the kingdom in HK, the kingdom in SS is Pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

You know SS doesn't take place in Hallownest right

[formal imp]

if a spinoff is made about a central character there would still be some amount of overlap and referencing

[tawdry flare]

Refer to previous Arcane Egg mention

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but that doesn't require referencing an ending or making the story of the first game overt

[celest tiger]

i know what you are :3p

[formal imp]

hornets lore is involved with hollow knight

[olive stag]

the whole point is that silksong can happen regardless of the events in HK. whether you got x or y ending, hornet stays alive, there is a way for her to get out of hallownest, and there is a way to capture her

[formal imp]

the two cant simply be separated entirely

[terse wadi]

Which is why hornet relevant information will be mentioned likely but nothing more

[sinful nimbus]

Its not like SS is about Hornet's time in Hallownest

Its her time in Pharloom

[glad mantle]

Good point

[formal imp]

i agree but it seems a lot less likely why they would do this when you need to go through so many hoops to explain this. why not just have it be a prequel?

[sinful nimbus]

Even the reason for her birth is probably irrelevant there

[tawdry flare]

There are so many more hoops for prequel than sequel

[formal imp]

thanks for the strawman

[olive stag]

because having a prequel means all your progress in silksong will equate to a bossfight some people have beat dozens of times

[sinful nimbus]

Its not

[sinful nimbus]

...

[terse wadi]

Let me flip this on its head so hornet rips off her wings, loses all her tools and skills and yhas amnesia?

Like, how does that make any more sense

[formal imp]

im simply saying this statement is very likely untrue

[terse wadi]

Obviously Hornet relevant information may be mentioned but HK as a whole is not important to Hornets story in Pharloom

[olive stag]

i do think HK will have at least some referencing, but the endings don't cancel out the events of silksong at all

[tawdry flare]

If only Team Cherry explicitly stated this…

[terse wadi]

Silksanity is their entertainment

[formal imp]

characters scaling down their abilities in the start of sequels is a pretty common thing, and amnesia isnt necessary to explain anything, what would she need to forget? her interactions with the hollow knight are for the hollow knight and hallownest's sake

it would make sense for her to spill some story time about her past for no reason

and we know shes trained in combat and has experience, we fight her as a boss twice, the second time she has abilities

so she doesnt even lose all her tools

she still has her aoe attack too

[terse wadi]

All her abilties and tools in Pharloom?

Cause she certainly has more than she does in HK

[formal imp]

in horizon forbidden west you start blank even though you end the prequel with insane gear, things like that are normal

[olive stag]

thk -> hornet's fine, can be captured
sealed siblings -> we've seen sealbreaking bugs in action
dream no more -> hornet's fine, can be captured
embrace the void -> hornet could run away and be captured, or whatever you headcanon (idk this ending sucks)
delicate flower -> see above

[terse wadi]

That's how that game works and yes AAA Franchises do that but HK upgrades are often FUSED to their body, not as simple as a write off

[tawdry flare]

I kind of feel like you’re arguing our point for us here? If Hornet is in Pharloom why would anything from Hallownest or Hollow Knight come up?

[formal imp]

im not saying they all do, i even agree that its possible for silksong to happen in each endings, however im saying the writing would be poor for some of the endings if they are genuinely all considered canon and prequels to silksong

[olive stag]

i don't see how the writing is poor in any of them

[dark rune]

i mean

[olive stag]

oops!

[terse wadi]

Lmao

[dark rune]

she could mention how she was a princess, recognize void (if its in silksong) , whatever

[formal imp]

the black egg seal being easily broken isnt satisfying, it nullifies the significance it has, and feels like poor writing
hornet somehow beating void, or escaping void and void not spreading to pharloom feels like poor writing, it feels like a plothole, a stretch to explain

[formal imp]

i wont fall for it

[olive stag]

void wouldn't hunt hornet, there's no reason to (especially since we got our boy TK in there)

[formal imp]

it WOULDNT***
sorry

[olive stag]

also the seal has no real significance in-lore, the knight just didn't have the power to break it and had to go kill the dreamers

[terse wadi]

Void is reactionary in the first place, it does noty attack unprovoked even mroe so as SL as TK is piloting

[formal imp]

so youre saying she somehow escapes and void is just chill w it and settles for taking over hallownest and only hallownest

[eternal gazelle]

we don't really have any idea what kind of goals the shade lord has aside from killing radiance

[tawdry flare]

Didn’t you say this exact thing like ten minutes ago

[formal imp]

playing devils advocate-

[tawdry flare]

Shade Lord would probably be chill if TK was tbh

[terse wadi]

Okay but feeling like something is poor writing isn't poor writing

[olive stag]

void isn't an evil force

[terse wadi]

I did but apparently some people don't read

[formal imp]

i could see this working if void becomes part of the lore in silksong, which is possible and could be done well

[eternal gazelle]

but whatever they are, it's pretty easy to imagine it not having a reason to go to pharloom

[dark rune]

it could be argued that the radiance weakened the black egg seal, or that since there arent dreamer seals on the egg its easier to break

[olive stag]

that's true, but the void never goes out of its way to kill anything so it doesn't seem likely. especially considering hornet is fast and void not so much

[formal imp]

i said feel to make it read better. it is poor writing.

[terse wadi]

Nah

[dark rune]

wait a minute, if the egg gets unlocked then the radiance isnt really stopped right?

[formal imp]

yeah i can get behind that, however we are still actively jumping through hoops to make it make sense

[olive stag]

really disagree on that one

[formal imp]

hence the discussion

[terse wadi]

In Sealed siblings, possibly, thouigh if TK is still containing it Hornet's presence is kind of irrelevant

[dark rune]

id think hornet would make the sacrifice and stay in there

[eternal gazelle]

correct, and if the pharloom kidnapping squad wanted to they could release TK from its bindings and potentially fuck over the kingdom again right there and then but I can't imagine they're stupid enough to do that

[terse wadi]

Brother she is kidnapped

[olive stag]

she is being captured in the start of silksong

[formal imp]

if this is the case then i will actually crash out, the entirety of hollow knight would be pointless then

[dark rune]

well i dont think they went down the well and broke into the egg just to get her

[tawdry flare]

The only time it did was when it lashed out at lighthouse guy for beaming the void right

[terse wadi]

Also Hornet is Comatose in Sealed Siblings she doesn't get choices

[formal imp]

that literally just IS poor writing

[eternal gazelle]

I mean, this is already the case for sealed siblings and THK ending regardless of what happens after credits roll

[olive stag]

we don't really know how important hornet is to them, so maybe they did

[formal imp]

telling an entire story and making significant plotpoints just to turn around in the end and say that none of it actually had an impact on anything

[tawdry flare]

This would make Sealed Siblings better because of TK’s failure, the Radiance being freed would happen much sooner and therefore make it the worst ending Probably IDK

[eternal gazelle]

hornet getting broken out of the egg is actually the best possible outcome for hallownest because it introduces the hypothetical possibility of the knight getting replaced as a vessel

[dark rune]

maybe, but if hallownest didnt know any other kingdoms existed, then i doubt any other kingdoms interacted with hallownest

[olive stag]

it's not pointless though, silksong isn't a direct continuation of HK, it's a spin-off. it's not meant to pick up where HK left off, it's meant to expand upon a character and her adventures apart from HK

[dark rune]

or knew hallownest existed

[olive stag]

we see the pilgrims travelling pretty damn far, so i think they at least had an idea

[eternal gazelle]

are you suggesting that sealed siblings is somehow the most critical ending

because it doesn't happen at all most of the time

[formal imp]

why the insistence on it being a sequel then if its so separate from the hollow knight according to you

[terse wadi]

The weavers probably blabbed

[eternal gazelle]

hornet's dreamer seal getting undone isn't ruining the impact of the journey, the knight still managed to seal away the radiance and end the infection even if temporarily

[olive stag]

because the developers said so and a prequel means all of silksong's progress means nothing

[dark rune]

i think hornet ventured into the land of storms because there was nothing left to really protect since TK is a hollow knight unlike THK

[terse wadi]

Because retconning the entire Silksong experience so she can be in hallownest after is lame and requires a lot of inconsistencies

[terse wadi]

I think you mean the wastes, land of storms is Godseekers old jhome

[dark rune]

yeah i can never remember the name

[eternal gazelle]

this is wrong, the knight isn't hollow

[dark rune]

windy land where the knight dipped to for a while

[olive stag]

that makes more sense than the pilgrims reaching into hallownest tbh

[paper swallow]

During the sealed siblings i would say he is

[dark rune]

with void heart

[eternal gazelle]

void heart doesn't magically turn the knight into a perfect vessel

if anything it's the opposite because it requires a strong emotional reaction to form

[paper swallow]

It makes him fully hollow doesnt it

[olive stag]

it does not

[tawdry flare]

Nay it unifies void under the Knight’s Will

[eternal gazelle]

that's what the white lady thinks but it's probably the presence of the void that she's feeling

[paper swallow]

Oh

[formal imp]

i mean yeah but its satisfying as an ending like frenzy flame or moon ending for elden ring, if you then try to make a sequel after that where the MAJOR impact of previous events arent acknowledged and are reverted then it nullifies the importance of the events, its similar to how when character gets brought back to life in spite of the good writing behind their death, it nullifies all the importance of their death

[terse wadi]

Okay but Hallownest isn't the only place in the HK universe, why tf would Pharloom care

[dark rune]

well the knight wasnt breaking to hornet's knowledge, so maybe she went "ok guess i cant do anything else unless i hear an '[internal screaming]'"

[paper swallow]

Well if i were to put it i guess i thought his will gets unified with void so i always thought he was fully hollow during any void heart ending

[eternal gazelle]

the point of the void heart is to circumvent the king's plan entirely, it makes hollowness as a concept obsolete

[terse wadi]

Nah, it has a will and a perfect vessel should have no will to break

[olive stag]

the whole story of hollow knight is entirely self contained though. the point is that you're putting a corpse to rest, TK is putting hallownest to rest and that's all there is to it. silksong is about pharloom, not about hallownest or TK

[terse wadi]

"we don't need to seal it if it's dead"

[formal imp]

like if the (evangelion spoilers) ||third impact happens but want to write a spinoff story that you insist needs to be a sequel, then how the hell are you going to make it happen without acknowledging the third impact, you cant, or you do and you revert the effects of the third impact which is poor writing because it takes away the significance of the events, the devastation being so bad it is irreparable--being the significance||

[eternal gazelle]

there's not really any strong narrative significance to hornet getting sealed in the black egg, it happens not due to any kind of character flaw or sacrifice but because the player fucked up and didn't recognize you're supposed to use the dreamnail

[formal imp]

radiance infection or void being unleashed is really self contained???? really???

[olive stag]

well none of the HK endings turn people into orange juice as far as i'm concerned

[latent merlin]

[dark rune]

i like the godhome ending because its "the knight slaps the radiance in her home turf after becoming a huge piece of void and going crazy and now maybe we will see him again (yes i know the knight isnt a he but i like to think of him as a little guy)"

[olive stag]

yeah, there's no reason or motivation for any of those to get out of hallownest

[eternal gazelle]

the only story significance it actually has is demonstrating a potential avenue for people becoming dreamers

which is cool but nobody thinks it's a good ending

[paper swallow]

We all lowkey wish that the godhome delicate flower ending is the actual canon ending so we can get a dope ass pure vessel fight befoire the game starts

[paper swallow]

Atleast i do idk abt yall

[formal imp]

the hollow knight, sealed siblings (radiance lives on with her infection) and embrace the void (void devours everything) these seems pretty big

[dark rune]

do we actually know how the dreamers became dreamers? a sleepy seal or something?

[eternal gazelle]

none of those impact pharloom

[dark rune]

how ironic would it be if pharloom was like a 2 minute walk

[formal imp]

good question

[eternal gazelle]

it's either the same way that hornet did or... it wasn't

[paper swallow]

Now that you mention it how did hornet become a seal

[eternal gazelle]

presumably it's just an automatic function of the black egg

it does all kinds of bullshit

[olive stag]

black egg magic, and we leave it at that

[paper swallow]

Get a random tiktik as your dreamer bro i swear no one is finding that 😭

Get a random abundant enemy as a dreamer NO ONE is breakjing a seal

[dark rune]

like automatically adjusting the size of the seal symbol every time a new one is added to be smaller and smaller but making hornet shell big

[foggy fractal]

Hornet said something like the space is harmful to her right

[dark rune]

(TK sold separately)

[eternal gazelle]

she said it was built to sustain the likes of the knight but it would drain her if she enters

[formal imp]

but this is all so many stretches and hoops to justify and for me to say "yeah i guess its technically not impossible when you take abcdefg into account" when you could simply just say its a prequel, so much already existing lore is hinted to that we know only the surface of which silksong could expand on, as well as exploring its own things as well of course, just like how the elden ring dlc expanded on base game stuff but also (mostly actually) focused on its own lore

[eternal gazelle]

a lot of people assumed this meant it would kill her but I think it actually means it puts non-vessels to sleep

[foggy fractal]

right thanks Groversoup for 18.45
thats expensive af for some soup what happened to the economy smh

[formal imp]

yep, we're on the same page

[dark rune]

i just thought of the self sacrifice thing from a new angle. wouldnt hornet sitting in there forever possibly corrupt the knight? maybe it was advantageous to get out

[vestal swan]

I think that was just the automatic seals deciding making a dreamer out of the extra person was a good idea

[terse wadi]

The void does not devour everything, idk how many times I gotta say this void is retalitory, it doesn't attack things on its own

[dark rune]

so ig the shadelord just became the world's biggest void tendril

[eternal gazelle]

it makes you question why these elements were introduced if they weren't meant to be used in other contexts though

why does hornet lose her traps and abilities at the beginning of silksong if they weren't the ones she already had in HK?

[formal imp]

potentially.. i like this justification though, it doesnt seem hoop jumpy to me at all, however hornet was intentionally very cold towards the knight, so i dont think her staying there is guaranteed for failure either

[terse wadi]

More or less, though we don't know how it acts under the knights will, the Knight likely isn't out to murder everything

[eternal gazelle]

why does the seal breaking bug even exist?

[dark rune]

hornet, being half weaver, might know how to make a new seal

[terse wadi]

she's not half weaver

[dark rune]

oh right yeah, but daughter of hera, who was queen of weavers

[terse wadi]

Wrong again

[dark rune]

queen of deepnest weavers

[eternal gazelle]

(I mean right but with wrong implications)

[high violet]

What are the lore implications of Silksong being $20USD

[eternal gazelle]

she was the queen who governed the weavers as a group but she wasn't a member of their species

[terse wadi]

She's queen of deepnest

[olive stag]

team cherry are benevolent gods

[foggy fractal]

so she's just taking a nap gotcha

[dark rune]

the devs were in development heaven and not stressed so the writing is probably more thought out and thus better

[olive stag]

could be explained by the weird panic attacks she gets all the times (for the abilities) and just getting all her stuff stolen for the tools as she was kidnapped

[eternal gazelle]

yeah that's what's happening, my question is why it's happening if silksong is meant to be a prequel

[dark rune]

are we sure that its not exhaustion

[eternal gazelle]

she's losing shit that she could have been written to not have in the first place

[olive stag]

cause it's a sequel

[eternal gazelle]

I'm aware

[formal imp]

travelling to hallownest could have meant she was only able to bring so many with her. or she lost them through the years between the events of silksong up until hollow knight. she could also be going easy on the knight (lore wise this makes sense because you fight her a second time where she uses tools and is much harder to beat)

[dark rune]

maybe, but she might get really really bored and turn the knight into her muse or something idk

[eternal gazelle]

this is a rhetorical question

[formal imp]

true

[olive stag]

oh right mb

[eternal gazelle]

you read my question backwards

[paper swallow]

If it was a prequel, there would be many more plot holes than if it was a sequel. Sure i see that her losing her stuff is weird but u could take it as it broke on the fall or she lost it or something considering she also falls odwn on 1 hp

[formal imp]

oops

[olive stag]

also she was kidnapped so they could've just stolen all her stuff lol

[dark rune]

imagine you fight hornet protector for the first time and she balloons 💀

[formal imp]

"If it was a prequel, there would be many more plot holes than if it was a sequel" i just spent the last 15 minutes explaining the opposite of this

[eternal gazelle]

I was speaking rhetorically

[paper swallow]

Yeah but she does get the spiky stuff later on so id rather just believe she broke it or sum

[eternal gazelle]

not really

there are no plotholes with the sequel interpretation, just things that you find narratively unsatisfying

[paper swallow]

Prequel = she has a shit ton of skills and, by the end of silksong, will definetely be much stronger than the one we fought even in kingdoms edge

[olive stag]

none of the endings cancel out Pharloom's existance or hornet being alive, thus this makes no sense

[eternal gazelle]

it's not a plothole that pharloom's elite has the means to break the dreamer seal on the black egg, it's just a thing you don't like

[terse wadi]

^

[paper swallow]

What if hornet we play is silksong is the hornet between the greenpath one and kingdoms edge but she was super fast so we didnt even see her 🤔

[olive stag]

i get what you mean by saying it makes TK's effort to break seals feel futile, but silksong isn't about HK. it's about hornet and pharloom and those are separate stories

[formal imp]

the severe narrative dissatisfaction makes it a plothole because why would team cherry make something mediocre when their standard is way higher

[dark rune]

while the weavers in deepnest were doing cool stuff the weavers in pharloom mightve been figuring out how to undo that aforementioned cool stuff

[eternal gazelle]

you cannot change the defintion of words to suit your argument

[formal imp]

but also no, the same can be said for the prequel

[paper swallow]

Also, am i tweaking or do u guys also remember that whenever hornet killed an enemy u could see a string deattaching

[dark rune]

i remember hearing about this

[vestal swan]

Sequel has no plotholes, prequel is nothing but. What's hard to get

[eternal gazelle]

forget the weavers, we have no clue who the driving force of silksong's is or how powerful they are

[olive stag]

because you're insisting on the point that the events in hallownest matter to silksong. the events in hallownest matter to HK, they impact the HK game. silksong is separate, it's not about what happened in hallownest or what TK did

[glad mantle]

Mey be a stupid thought but What if minor enemies in hollow knight like Vengeflies And Crawlids where to reappear in silksong, maybe late game non infected versions of those Enemies.

[dark rune]

yes we do, its john silksong

[foggy fractal]

hi john silksong here

[dark rune]

nice to meet you

[vestal swan]

No reason they would

[olive stag]

although it does have a connection, which is why all the HK endings are plausible in the silksong's starting point

[paper swallow]

The only "plot hole" in the sequel is the sealed siblings ending, but i believe its not an actual plothole and tc will find a way to explain it properly idk

[dark rune]

sorry i shouldve spoiler tagged this

[tawdry flare]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[eternal gazelle]

it's already been explained

[terse wadi]

Now this is a strawman

[vestal swan]

Did you read what I said? Sequel has NO plotholes

[foggy fractal]

something similar in terms of function/behaviour maybe but def new enemies

[brave sinew]

SHAW

[paper swallow]

OH

[paper swallow]

Ye u right mb 😢

[formal imp]

hollow knights lore includes hornet, she is a central character, she cant be extracted as if she didnt have her own lore in the game

[dark rune]

what was that for

[brave sinew]

Hype

[dark rune]

imagine hornet dies at the end of silksong

[olive stag]

she has the lore in the game. in both games. the endings don't impact the fact she can get snatched

[dark rune]

[brave sinew]

Why would you voice that into existence 😭

[formal imp]

it appears that way because its badly articulated but im not strawmanning

[tawdry flare]

You guys have been at this for like an hour

[dark rune]

i mean it could happen
nuu kills her because she slapped him one time

[olive stag]

yeah can we talk about cooler things please

[brave sinew]

Fair enough

[olive stag]

i LOVE the steel assassins designs bro i'm obsessed with them

[glad mantle]

I mean it could be a cool reference, I mean plus there the only real Enemies out in The howling cliffs, so there could still be non infected vengeflies or Crawlids out there,

[eternal gazelle]

you know once you get past the whole dreamer seal thing (which they easily can) hornet getting stuck in a dome full of sleeping gas makes it way more believable that she could be captured by a group of 4 basic bitch enemies

[dark rune]

i hope we get more wyrm lore in silksong i like wyrms

[olive stag]

sealed siblings true ending ...

[foggy fractal]

aye aye chill those 4 enemies are my pals don't call them basic or bitches

[eternal gazelle]

of course the implication of this is that they probably had other means to disable her in other endings that we haven't seen

[olive stag]

this is a joke please don't skewer me

[paper swallow]

Pharloom is really far away from hollownest i believe

[vestal swan]

Why does the sequel need a cool reference

[tawdry flare]

Andy... they die in four days.

[dark rune]

the loremen of #hk-lore would crash out if blackwyrm turned out to be a wyrm

[glad mantle]

Idk, I was mostly just saying,

[olive stag]

there would be blood spilled. there would be tears

[eternal gazelle]

I don't care about a cool reference but the idea that the HK world has some overlap in species between areas would be alright

like if lumaflies can show up all over the place I don't think it's unbelievable that there would be others

but you know, gameplay first and all

[paper swallow]

Dude i knoiw this is off topic but does aanyone know anything about the abyss bug in the lifebood thingy (both in the abyss and godhome)

[olive stag]

nothing

[vestal swan]

would be really lame and lazy for a bunch of species to just pop up, like it's not like we've waited 30 years for a sequel and we're dying for easter eggs about the first game, this is a direct sequel in a different region everything should be different

[foggy fractal]

I think they'd rather create new stuff because

1. they have all the resources they need to do so and
2. they like to create new stuff and have said they could've just continued doing so but wanted to release the game first (hence the dlc down the line)

[dark rune]

i hope we get a goofy vengefly-type enemy, or tiktiks. tiktiks are cool.

[eternal gazelle]

Dude, I know this is unrelated, but I really need your help right now.

[paper swallow]

Mann i really like seeing big bugs in a game where most enemies are small i lwk wanna see more of him 😢

[olive stag]

we have a coral parallel, it looks like

[dark rune]

john lifeblood (but no i think it's just mysterious)

[paper swallow]

Day 1 john lifeblood fan btw

[olive stag]

so true, i got a scare when i first saw that thing

[tawdry flare]

I know it's a lot to ask... I REALLY can't leave without it. It's somewhere nearby.

[paper swallow]

Seeing oversized bugs in a small bug game makes it feel so unreal it gives me a weird vibe bro idk

[tawdry flare]

Check your map for the location of the medkit!

[dark rune]

this is a big what if but... what if team cherry puts in the stickbug video and hornet faces the camera and says "get stickbugged"

[paper swallow]

What if thi is true ending

[dark rune]

and plays miami hotline vol 7

[olive stag]

so true. i'm so excited for the golem fight because of this

[lethal burrow]

what I'm really going to be curious to see is the beginning of that travelling cutscene, I wonder if there's gonna be a gameplay before that and if it's going to start in hallownest or if the game is just going to start with her waking up in the cage

[terse wadi]

Cage probably

[dark rune]

all the lore nerds will go "but erm actually, cut content isnt cannon and anything team cherry says on twitter isnt cannon" but im on your side

[paper swallow]

Like tuk bro tuk is so big and cool i love tuk

[lethal burrow]

I don't even know what you're referring to

[paper swallow]

Also seeing tuk infected was so tuff asw they need to do more of that

[formal imp]

interesting thought

[dark rune]

im not sure but my brain mightve made the twitter thing up

[paper swallow]

Like i always thought why not make the false knight die to infection after it becomes infected crossroads itd be so dope

[eternal gazelle]

I think hornet dying is going to be ending dependant

unlike the knight, she would actually have something worth doing after the end of the story

[olive stag]

hornet dying at the end of silksong would send me into shambles

[dark rune]

i once dared to THINK about what if the cut dream dialogue for the pure vessel was cannon and then i got murdered

[vestal swan]

I bet most endings she dies

[dark rune]

it would send you to shambles, think about how nuu feels

[foggy fractal]

Hornet dying at the ending would be like winning a war
celebration on the streets

[eternal gazelle]

I think this language anticipates a number of endings that won't be there at launch

honestly I'm only thinking there will be two

[foggy fractal]

endings at launch ?

[eternal gazelle]

sealed siblings only exists because of the incredibly weird method of accesing the final boss allowing for an extra fail condition

[dark rune]

recently i was like
"hey you know the little guy in the silksong trailer that tried to kiss hornet and got slapped" and my friend was like "yeah?" and i said "IT SHOULDVE BEEN ME, NOT HIM!", he said i was weird, he just doesnt get it 😔

[dark rune]

i dont think we have enough evidence to conclude this strongly

[vestal swan]

You don't have any kind of evidence for an ending of the game I said "bet"

[vestal swan]

7

[formal imp]

whats to say that radiance plague doesnt seek expanding beyond hallownest in endings 1 and 2? to say pharloom, as a plague would want to do

[foggy fractal]

how much we betting

[dark rune]

thats your opinion, but you shouldnt bet very hard rn

[olive stag]

roll a six sided die, whatever you gget is how many endings there are

[dark rune]

bet when halfway through the game

[paper swallow]

What if hornet ends up being void so all lore goblins go crazy and st art review bombing silksong and tc goes bankrupt so they make a zote game and they remake their money

[vestal swan]

I've been making bets for 5 years and I'm like 157/2

[dark rune]

team cherry is gonna add a bunch of content to silksong after launch and i think we will get at least one more

[lapis creek]

are you betting on hornet not being pk's daughter

[paper swallow]

So what is the topic rn

[vestal swan]

Because they're not going to acknowledge the other endings they're not going to have the radiance appear because that would confirm an ending where she didn't die

[vestal swan]

No I just think that would be funny

If I did bet on that one though it would be the craziest odds

[dark rune]

its cornifer

[foggy fractal]

157 right 2 wrong ?

[vestal swan]

Yeah, give or take like 12

[tawdry flare]

So you admit it! You're 78!

[lapis creek]

this is one of those two he is wrong about

[paper swallow]

Wait this makes sense

[vestal swan]

That's not how math works

[glad mantle]

There's 200 enemies in the game, And what I was saying is mostly a What if, so if there was A vengeflie or Crawlids or hell even both, there is still 198 enemies that are unique, plus I was mostly just saying that there could be new variations of the enemies from old games, like For example, Spiders, There are alot of different spiders in the world, so why wouldn't there be a different a version of Vengeflies or crawlies that will most Likley will appear extremely late game if they even do appear

[foggy fractal]

man either you're very good at this thing... or the game's rigged... mods investigate powdered !

[paper swallow]

Notice how u only meet hornet AFTER cornifer and bapanada move in i forgot her name

[lapis creek]

theyre being generous I would have rounded up

[terse wadi]

bro forget Iseldas name

[vestal swan]

I don't know why they have to be late game if they did appear, I just think it would be really bad if they did at all

[dark rune]

yeah hornet is known for her secret map collection far and wide throughout the mender bug society

[olive stag]

that's wild, poor iselda

[vestal swan]

Have any of you graduated middle school math

[lapis creek]

why do you ask

[glad mantle]

Sorry if this sounds Agressive

[paper swallow]

I doubt it if they were to make a reference itd be much better to make a reference to the void which is probably confirmed considering arcane eggs are in silksong

Though itd be pretty cool seeing a tiktik again 🥺

[vestal swan]

Nah ur good, people tend to think that lore arguments are actually heated but that's almost never the case

[paper swallow]

One singular tiktik thats like menderbug u kill it once and it never respawns

[terse wadi]

Arcane egg is not void

[vestal swan]

Tone in text form is hard

[dark rune]

i forget where but im pretty sure we saw a soul-totem-like-thingy in like the demo

[paper swallow]

Man earlier today i said something invalid and ppl started souinding so rude to me 😢

[dark rune]

might be wrong i completely forget what it was

[paper swallow]

Sorry for pinging i keep forgetting to disable the ping from answers

[vestal swan]

Because the age y'all keep trying to math up for me gets bigger every time

[paper swallow]

Its linked to ancient civilizations

[dark rune]

i beg you to ping me, if i leave the conversation I WANT to be notified

[eternal gazelle]

you have a flanders PFP you have an assumed default of passivity

[paper swallow]

@dark rune most useless ping ever

[tawdry flare]

you JUST SAID you were 78.5

[vestal swan]

Just because people are correcting you does not mean they're trying to be rude, the lore channels just like to deal in facts

[dark rune]

thank you i didnt hear it since im already here

[formal imp]

wdym an ending where she doesnt die?

[vestal swan]

In the first two endings the radiance does not die, that is the only situation where she could continue to expand in the second game

[polar latch]

i keep forgetting i made your pfp and it scares me every time i see it

[formal imp]

real i feel the same

[eternal gazelle]

there's also not really any reason to assume that she would try to infect pharloom

[lapis creek]

if you're 157/2 how old are you

[formal imp]

oh my bad i get it, thought the "she" was in relation to hornet and got confused

[paper swallow]

I searched void monster hollow knight when the fuck did this happen in the game 😭

[vestal swan]

Never

[eternal gazelle]

like yeah it's a theoretical that could happen if you made a few assumptions but that's not evidence

[paper swallow]

lemme delete cz attachment spam dont wannna flood chat

[terse wadi]

The infection is a retaliation against Hallownest more specifically the moths that tried to froget her but she's not very specific, and just fucks over the entire kingdom

[polar latch]

you never fought Void Abomination? dude that's like the first thing in the abyss!

[dark rune]

i was in the antimatter dimensions discord server asking for help semi-recently and the guy who sometimes helped me would put the whyping emoji on my replies to him, even if it was several minutes since the last message was sent and it involved him. i dont understand his kind. should i assume he gazes lovingly at the dead chat until a message is sent?

[polar latch]

people who get mad at pings that aren't spam are so annoying

[dark rune]

put the whyping emoji on my messages enough times and i might reply ping you on purpose

[olive stag]

please not the red circle next to the chat, it hurts me

[dark rune]

i never brought it up and neither did he, but i bet i was more annoyed at his emojis than the ping prompting him to put the emoji

[paper swallow]

God how dare you ping me this is unacceptable

[polar latch]

I see

[terse wadi]

You always reply ping in busy chats so people you're responding to know you're replying

[dark rune]

putting the emoji on my messages isnt very good ragebait because i know it's just for the bit

[formal imp]

so then as a conclusion to the sequel discussion,
THK she escapes hallownest and hallownest becomes an infected wasteland eventually
SS the seal is undone somehow and the same as above happens
DNM she leaves hallownest and radiance has no significance anyway
ETV1 she escapes the voided coked up knight/the void in general and gets to pharloom, and void potentially gets to pharloom another way if void is present in silksong
ETV2 she leaves hallownest as normal and no HK impacts her journey in pharloom

[runic musk]

I personally mostly deem reply ping unnecessary unless very slow to responding to the message.

[formal imp]

is that all right? do people agree more or less?

[paper swallow]

Ur acting like i would let the radiance take over hallownest

[olive stag]

yeah basically

[eternal gazelle]

there's not really any reason to assume the shade lord is a threat to her

in DNM the knight bends the void around her to keep her safe while liquefying the black egg

[dark rune]

add that the seal on the black egg mightve been redone after she got out since she mightve been taught seals

[paper swallow]

I believe radiance is fully sealed or killed during the SS ending since the knight has the void heart, i might be wrong tho

[gentle aspen]

Team Cherry on their way to imply bad shit happening for no reason with that fucking ending

[gentle aspen]

you’re wrong

[paper swallow]

Ok mb

[foggy fractal]

man this art is old af https://www.deviantart.com/tinytentacle/art/Hollow-knight-character-5-Void-abomination-734648111

[olive stag]

why the fuck does it exist

[paper swallow]

Dude we all remember the void monster

[dark rune]

not reading anything after /art/ is terrifying

[formal imp]

idk man shade lord had aura that automatically means she would lose (ragebait)

[paper swallow]

Nah lol i was joking @exotic trellis that one was fake this one is real tho

[formal imp]

but genuinely how would the shadelord NOT pose a threat

[dark rune]

i mean deviantart is already in the link so-

[formal imp]

i feel like no threat at all would be farfetched

[eternal gazelle]

because it wouldn't fight her

scroll down one message from the one you replied to

[dark rune]

who would win:
1 big shade boi
1 funny looking flower that might be from pharloom
no but really he's a threat

[foggy fractal]

label. your. fakes. 🐺 sigma mod squad ? ban him.

[terse wadi]

It wouldn't attack Hornet or anyyhing really TK's piloting it

[paper swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/im-so-fucking-scared-squid-game-edit-ali-gif-4216729180360440325

[lapis creek]

grover it's no use they played the sinister music in the etv cutscene

[dark rune]

sigma mod squad vs alpha enforcer squadron

[hardy parcel]

But the voidiation

[formal imp]

yeah this is the knight, not the shade lord, to me the shade lord seems to have the will of void, if we can call those separate things i guess

[eternal gazelle]

shade lord is fundamentally the same thing as the knight in dream no more, the difference is the ascension enabled by the godseekers' godly focus

[terse wadi]

It's the void under TK's will

[lapis creek]

what are you basing this on

[formal imp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEWWOeoQWcs&ab_channel=finalecrafter idk man it REALLY looked like it was gonna attack her

[eternal gazelle]

even in the case that it's assumed true, why would the void want to kill hornet

[dark rune]

"he's right behind me isnt he"

[eternal gazelle]

the only thing it cares about before TK jacks its shit is keeping the lights turned off

[lapis creek]

well yeah the void was just a pool in the abyss for a very long time

[formal imp]

predatory instinct

[lapis creek]

that's what the will of the void is

[formal imp]

the void consumes

[olive stag]

she's fast

[dark rune]

yeah idk how anyone looks at this and doesnt think "yeah the kingdom is doomed"

[olive stag]

not what the void is about in HK though

[lapis creek]

they played the rest of the game???????

[dark rune]

there are big scary booms coming out of the godseeker

[formal imp]

like i dont get how im the crazy one for thinking this ending isnt just hollow knight's third impact

[lapis creek]

oh no

[obsidian quail]

seriously why did TC even bother to throw that THK scene in there in ETV

[lapis creek]

the hollow knight explodes in dnm and the black egg is destroyed

[eternal gazelle]

you know you were previously complaining about major plot developments being rendered unimpactful and now you're suggesting that the void heart doesn't actually do anything in 2 of the game's endings that it's present in

[obsidian quail]

it just made stuff so odd

[lapis creek]

the only difference is music and editing

[olive stag]

it isn't, the void existed far before hallownest and it never was a "predatory force"

[formal imp]

wdym by "do anything"

[terse wadi]

Bro how hard is "retalitory force" to understand

[eternal gazelle]

I mean the void heart allows the knight to command the void under its will and you think that the void is now overpowering the knight for some reason

[olive stag]

the void heart description

[lapis creek]

literally the only thing we see shade lord doing post etv is recreationally returning to godhome to fight the pantheons again

[dark rune]

i agree and the pale king probably only died because he worked with it too much and not a cosmic strangling but it seems pretty threatening in ETV

[obsidian quail]

well we don’t see it do anything other than escape the dream realm

[terse wadi]

We have no idea how PK died

[eternal gazelle]

I actually really like the idea that the knight enjoys fighting enough to do it recreationally

it's funny

[lapis creek]

where it takes the form of the knight and still has void heart

[dark rune]

yeah, but the void particles around his fork chair seems to imply it

[eternal gazelle]

aren't those dust motes

[obsidian quail]

do u guys think the Shade Lord is malevolent?

[lapis creek]

i cannot stress this enough void heart still exists and the knight is still choosing to act as itself

[terse wadi]

What Grover said

[eternal gazelle]

I don't think they have the void particle pulse

[obsidian quail]

i think it looks spooky but it didn’t do anything that says malevolence

[dark rune]

theres the workshop nearby too

[eternal gazelle]

yes? what about it

[dark rune]

he was making stuff with void

[eternal gazelle]

yes he was

[dark rune]

and there are seemingly void particles where he died

[lapis creek]

when void kills people you can typically tell

[eternal gazelle]

there's no way in hell those jars suddenly gained full cognitive and ambulatory abilities and killed his ass

[obsidian quail]

but what did Shade Lord do to imply it’s a malevolent creature

[formal imp]

i dont get it

[lapis creek]

nothing

[midnight zinc]

In the throne room? No that’s not dust, it’s void.

[olive stag]

unifies the void under the bearer's will. the void is under the knight's will

[lapis creek]

the godseeker is literally still alive

[eternal gazelle]

okay but is that true or are you jumping to conclusions

[formal imp]

i see

[dark rune]

i suppose, but we also dont know how it affects a higher being

[midnight zinc]

It’s the exact same as the particles in the abyss

[lapis creek]

we know how it plays around light it doesnt really have a way to attack it

[eternal gazelle]

evidence?

[obsidian quail]

i thought i saw a comparison and the black stuff in the PK room was Void particles

[vestal swan]

1 yes
2 yes
3 Rad dead
4 voids not a threat
5 yes
I'm probly 🐌 but I had other pings

[olive stag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZinttNiyU

[midnight zinc]

Ari told me

[eternal gazelle]

the idea that a hypothetical void assassin could even approach the pale king is patently insane anyway

[terse wadi]

That is TK emitting that

[formal imp]

im trying to find a reason why they made the shade lord look like it was going to annihilate hornet

[eternal gazelle]

they didn't

[olive stag]

yeah i think dude is just dead

[obsidian quail]

what

[lapis creek]

they do grow and shrink

[gentle aspen]

there were also big scary booms coming out of the black egg

[midnight zinc]

I’m not saying the void killed the pale king, just to be clear. I’m just saying it’s in the throne room.

[formal imp]

what was the ending of the cutscene then

[olive stag]

the thing that smashed a nail against the ground isn't the shade lord, that's the hollow knight

[gentle aspen]

It’s the same thing that happened in that endinf

[dark rune]

not a void assassin but like think of it as drinking radium for years

[formal imp]

oh okay

[terse wadi]

Did bro think THK was SL

[obsidian quail]

u mean Void poisoning

[gentle aspen]

The Knight has a large amount of mass in void form that leaves the dream realm

[dark rune]

yeah

[vestal swan]

New body, they needed to use Godseeker as a door to get out, looks violent bc the exit is her face?

[formal imp]

and you say this because of void heart? we dont think its possible the shade lord took control of the hollow knights body and overpowered void heart?

[obsidian quail]

isn’t void kinda anti PK so it’s a reasonable assumption but nothing concrete

[dark rune]

i dont think the vessels died from being thrown into the abyss because their shells arent cracked

[gentle aspen]

That’s not a thing

[formal imp]

pk?

[terse wadi]

That's not remotely how it works

[vestal swan]

The void obeys tk, nothing is there to take over

[gentle aspen]

literally not possible

[obsidian quail]

Pale King

[gentle aspen]

the “shade lord” is not a separate entity

It is the Knight

[formal imp]

i was just told that it was

[obsidian quail]

the Shade Lord is just Knight Shade attuned to max capacity

[midnight zinc]

I think they’re saying the shade lord was controlling THK. Which it wasn’t but that’s what they’re saying

[gentle aspen]

by whom

[formal imp]

robert

[obsidian quail]

it’s Void Heart Knight Shade on steroids

[gentle aspen]

you did not read what they said

[obsidian quail]

hahahaha

[gentle aspen]

or what I said

The shade lord is not separate from the knight

it cannot “overwhelm void heart”

[olive stag]

the hollow knight, a.k.a the big guy inside the black egg =/= the knight, a.k.a your character

[formal imp]

what is the shadelord

[obsidian quail]

how can the Shade Lord control THK they’re not related at all

[gentle aspen]

The KNIGHT

[lapis creek]

the hollow knight and the knight are two different characters

[gentle aspen]

the Player character

with void heart

[formal imp]

why the special name?

[obsidian quail]

it’s the Knight shade with Void Heart

[gentle aspen]

did you play this game in english?

[eternal gazelle]

evidence? 🤔

[obsidian quail]

because it’s a fucking unit look at that thing

if that’s not a Shade Lord idk what is

[dark rune]

which brings up the question of what they died to if not being dropped off a cliff

[eternal gazelle]

technically it's not even used in the game

[obsidian quail]

they died when hollowed out from existing in abyss

[midnight zinc]

Tbf it’s not called the shade lord anywhere in the game

[eternal gazelle]

it was taken from the files

[midnight zinc]

Fuck I’m slow

[obsidian quail]

void seems to have anti life elements i think?

[eternal gazelle]

the closest thing to an official name is "void given focus"

[formal imp]

what is this, the shade lord? the knight? the void?

[gentle aspen]

lord of shades is basically the same name who gaf

[eternal gazelle]

but that's too fuckin long

[obsidian quail]

yes

[lapis creek]

their shells didnt crack but they did suffer subdural hematomas that caused them to bleed out without treatment

[midnight zinc]

Yes

[olive stag]

it's the shade lord, which is = the knight, which is = player character

[terse wadi]

Shade lord that is TK with voidheart and focus

[vestal swan]

That's TKs new body

[obsidian quail]

it’s amped Knight with Void heart

[eternal gazelle]

uhh that was used on the knight as soon as it gets the void heart, not after it transforms 🤓

[gentle aspen]

Irrelevant

[formal imp]

and tk gets a new body.....? why?

[obsidian quail]

assey did u play

[eternal gazelle]

because it broke out of its old one

same as DNM

[olive stag]

don't call him irrelevant :(

lol

[eternal gazelle]

in the godmaster endings, the focus of the godseekers allows it to fuse with the void and use its power directly

easy to miss but you can see the knight's shade fall into the void before the shade lord appears

[obsidian quail]

the Void Hearts bends Void to TK’s will, Godseeker focus amps the hell out of TK and he becomes super void creature

it

[gentle aspen]

To hit things harder

[midnight zinc]

Basically two power ups stacked on top of each other is what it is

[formal imp]

i did but my own understanding of the lore is very different and i have a lot of my own conclusions and everything is conflicting with what this community believes, also was never familiar with the term shade lord since its not used in the game, so i assumed and got it wrong a bunch of times because i viewed the lore quite differently

[obsidian quail]

think of the Knight Shade but times 1000

[formal imp]

not the benefits i mean the explanation

[oak lotus]

CANON ENDING DOESNT MATTER CUZ HORNET IS ALIVE IN SEALED SIBLINGS

[formal imp]

what enabled him, but you answered that

[obsidian quail]

oh lord not this again

[gentle aspen]

Void heart

[oak lotus]

lmao

[olive stag]

about silksong, you should just wait to play the game. most stuff we have is speculation

[midnight zinc]

Oh wait you’re the Kanye pfp guy

[formal imp]

cool

what is godseeker focus?

[oak lotus]

💀

[terse wadi]

Seems pretty self-explanitory

[obsidian quail]

knew that wasn’t gonna fly glue sniffer

[terse wadi]

You should already know what focus is from playing HK

[obsidian quail]

hahaha

[lapis creek]

the godseekers can make some things stronger by paying attention to them

[eternal gazelle]

sealed siblings is actually the ending where it's easiest to infer what happened

[lapis creek]

examples are absrad or sisters of battle

[oak lotus]

They let it fly in the general channel 🤣

[eternal gazelle]

hollow knight universe is a dark world theory

[obsidian quail]

because Hornet is stuck in one place ripe for a bugnapping

[olive stag]

dark ... world?

[formal imp]

i still maintain that both sequel and prequel are possibilities, but i see more ways that sequel can work now, however my beliefs on prequel possibilities havent changed, still possible without plotholes

[obsidian quail]

i’m not sure why she would leave

[terse wadi]

Prequel plot holes so big they might as well be called plot craters

[midnight zinc]

Still having sequel vs prequel debates in the big 25, that’s wild

[olive stag]

we'll see, i guess, though there's many gameplay reasons why a prequel wouldn't feel quite as good, like the fact your peak in silksong is something you've beat before and the fact you'd know for sure hornet doesn't die

[olive stag]

a mod should make sequel and prequel banned words

[eternal gazelle]

it is technically possible but it requires a lot of weird assumptions

[obsidian quail]

so when would the prequel take place, like during infection

[oak lotus]

Dream no more makes the most sense from a standalone perspective , The Hollow Knight is the most badass, Sealed Siblings makes most sense for a sequel

[eternal gazelle]

it would have to because that's when the weavers left

(side note, the weavers left so recently that one of them is still hanging around when the knight gets there)

[formal imp]

hornet dying i agree, unless they make non canon endings, the peak i dont though, they could write reasons why she loses her tools, those reasons could be the endings themselves too

[midnight reef]

Silkspear, a double jump? Who needs those when I can... throw my needle and do funny silk spinny

[lapis creek]

some people say itll be ambiguous when it occurs in the timeline as if hornet isnt gonna tell anybody her mother is dead

[terse wadi]

Man, I can't wait for my Hollow Knight: Silksong expierence to be nullified because none of it matters because prequel

[obsidian quail]

i mean u could come up with a 1000 ways for Hornet to get jumped and nabbed after Dream No More, Sealed Siblings just requires less creative thought

[midnight reef]

A prequel would be soo fucking stupid

[dark rune]

yeah so pale king couldve died from working with it too much

[oak lotus]

QUIRREL PREQUEL WHEN?

or ZOTE PREQUEL THATS A BULLET HELL UNTIL A RANDOM FALLING OBJECT KILLS THE BOSS AND YOU TAKE CREDIT

[dark rune]

quirrel: the dimensia files

[olive stag]

real question is When Are We Getting The Zote Playable DLC

[midnight zinc]

Sequel, surely he’s still alive

[obsidian quail]

that’s the most likely explanation to me but it’s supposed to be ambiguous so i don’t put it forth as the reason

[oak lotus]

#sk-lore message

[obsidian quail]

he does say Void is the power opposed

[dark rune]

you play hollow knight but you are quirrel so you say "Hm..." at things and a knight walks in while you admire a black egg

[obsidian quail]

and Hornet says going in the Egg weakens her, and the Vessels died and got hollowed out after prolonged time in Abyss

[eternal gazelle]

hornet getting drained by the egg is a property of the egg, not a property of void

[terse wadi]

That's not how the vessels died

[obsidian quail]

i thought the egg itself is void

[eternal gazelle]

maybe but probably not

[obsidian quail]

either that or they died from getting yeeted hahaha

[midnight reef]

The Black Egg itself is some weird funny magic orb thing

[dark rune]

when The Legend of Iselda: Bapanada comes out

[terse wadi]

Most likely

[lapis creek]

either way it's the bindings on the egg that drain her

[eternal gazelle]

hornet getting put to sleep is honestly way less weird than hornet getting turned into a dreamer

[obsidian quail]

doesn’t the Egg literally melt into void liquid

[midnight zinc]

Oh here we go

[terse wadi]

That's DNM ending

[eternal gazelle]

yeah and so does godseeker

is she void?

[obsidian quail]

godseeker is clear external influence

[lapis creek]

it's not really clear if the void that appears there is from the egg or just the stuff coming out from inside

[midnight reef]

I'd question how Hornet would know to become a dreamer, or if that was just a function of the egg itself?

[dark rune]

guys guys hornet is boid!!1!!111!!!

[obsidian quail]

why would the ending change the constitution of the Egg

[oak lotus]

no

[terse wadi]

It wouldn't be void explodes in it

[eternal gazelle]

what happens to her is the exact same thing that happens to the egg (well, first the hollow knight)

[dark rune]

given theres at least a chance she knows how to make seals, maybe

[obsidian quail]

so ur saying the Egg disappeared?

[eternal gazelle]

my question is what you think happened if it wasn't an external influence

[gentle aspen]

The same process of a large quantity of void exiting the dream realm happens

[obsidian quail]

it got blown up?

hold on let me go back and watch guys

[eternal gazelle]

is the egg just programmed to self-destruct if radiance dies? No, because that doesn't happen in ETV

[midnight reef]

The Egg does as the egg wants!

[eternal gazelle]

and the actions of the egg were very clearly being considered in that ending because it releases THK's chains

[obsidian quail]

oh shit u guys are right

i forgot there’s a whole void explosion

so why doesn’t the egg drain TK

[olive stag]

so like, why does that happen in DNM

[eternal gazelle]

the knight destroyed the egg to save hornet

she would have been stuck inside if it didn't

[olive stag]

oh fun

[dark rune]

egg grows legs and stands next to Quirrel
"Hm..." it says at the wall of the temple

[obsidian quail]

what a nice bug

[midnight zinc]

Not a bug 🤓

[midnight reef]

I dont know if it was intentional, but certainly not beyond the Knight

[eternal gazelle]

I mean I guess it could have done it for fun, but it definitely intentionally avoids damaging hornet

[lapis creek]

hornet says this

I won't be joining you in this. That space is built to sustain your likes. Its bindings would drain me were I to join.

[midnight reef]

Not for fun, just an unintended thing that happened with them exploding

[obsidian quail]

that always screamed it’s a Void egg to me, because she says “your likes”

[dark rune]

wait a minute... what does "built to sustain your likes" even mean? what does that entail?

[terse wadi]

Vessels

[midnight reef]

"Your Likes" is her refering to the egg being built to sustain Vessels

[dark rune]

yeah ik it means vessels but like
how is something built to sustain a vessel, what did they do to do that?

[obsidian quail]

how is Void not involved in the egg creation then?

[eternal gazelle]

it's kind of crazy that the egg even has the capability to switch out vessels because that was never supposed to happen

[terse wadi]

Backup plan

[eternal gazelle]

I mean it's not like void sustains vessels

[olive stag]

i definitely think the void is somehow tied to the black egg and how the knight can make it explode in DNM

[eternal gazelle]

it kinda tries to fuck them up

[midnight reef]

I mean, its probably just whatever was used to contain the hollow knight intitially

[obsidian quail]

i thought the Egg was like a passive boost on THK, like sealing something and then giving extra backup to the seal

[dark rune]

by a king who thought THK was perfect and got three seals on the egg? i dont think so, we leave it to black egg magic

[midnight zinc]

The pale king is like Batman, he has endless contingencies, until of course he doesn’t

[terse wadi]

Void is powerful under VH

[midnight reef]

The magic to bind whatever holds the radience never went away

[terse wadi]

Who said it was PK"s backup plan black egg construction bug did that

[obsidian quail]

holy Unn SS is in 3 days

[formal imp]

any predictions for what kind of crazy bosses we might get in silksong, like something cosmic similar to the radiance, maybe the moob instead? like bloodborne?

[midnight reef]

The Hollow Knight was trained to defend itself in the case the egg was breached

[dark rune]

ah yes, black egg construction bug. most well known among mender bugs.

[midnight reef]

The Pale King was just thinking ahead, making that last line of defense hopefully to never be needed

[obsidian quail]

woahhh that makes sense

[midnight reef]

Oh. heh.

[obsidian quail]

like in case something tried to bust it out and free the Radiance

[midnight reef]

That'd explain why its capable of binding the Knight, its designed to let the Hollow Knight defend itself before being sealed once more

[terse wadi]

He got a lot of geo for thatj ob

[olive stag]

looking forwards to the steel assassins, those guy seem pretty interesting

[vestal swan]

It makes sense with everything being automatic and the inside being dangerous to living bugs, they just had to send thk in there and let it get sealed up by the spells

[dark rune]

definitely, at least 2.

[vestal swan]

The fact that it just reacts automatically to everything isn't too odd if you look at it from a safety perspective

[midnight reef]

yeah

[lapis creek]

it waits like 5 minutes to do it for some reason

[obsidian quail]

nice Jcera

i understand it now

[midnight zinc]

How do we know time passes the same in the dream world

[vestal swan]

Well of course THK still has to do the Muzan walk down the hallway

[dark rune]

guys dont tell Unn but i am feasting upon some leafy nutritious greens rn

[lapis creek]

i guess we dont know how much time passes between the end of the thk fight and the sealing of the knight

[midnight reef]

Not much

[lapis creek]

oh wait yeah the light in its eyes

[midnight zinc]

Still doesn’t explain how it initially sealed the radiance

[dark rune]

maybe they needed to wait 3-5 business days for black egg construction bug to show up and press the egg reset button

[midnight reef]

magic

[vestal swan]

They uhhh, they uhhh, yeah

[dark rune]

i think it was instant, otherwise hornet would get out in sealed siblings

[midnight reef]

Pale King shenanigans
I remember when I was originally dealing with the lore that I thought that the Hollow Knight was trained to defeat/weaken the radience, hence them being trained to fight
but it seems really unlikely because if the Pale King thought that was possible, the Radience wouldnt be an issue

[midnight zinc]

I’d like to think team cherry has some real explanation as to how that happened, but I know in my heart they didn’t even think about it

[midnight reef]

It was likely somehow magically contained by the Pale King and Dreamers within the Hollow Knight

[dark rune]

pretty sure based off stuff they said that we know the lore better than they do

[midnight reef]

initially, at least

[olive stag]

definitely not, we don't know a Lot of things

[midnight zinc]

Probably

[obsidian quail]

can someone send a screenshot of arcane eggs in SS i keep missing it

[dark rune]

cant remember the exact tweet but they dont always thing very deeply about stuff we use for lore

[terse wadi]

TC classic responses are "Idk" and "Probably"

[olive stag]

yeah the hk community definitely overanalyzes sometimes (mask maker lol) but there's a lot of details they've clearly planned that we have no idea about

[obsidian quail]

or point me to where u see them in trailer

[dark rune]

lol i was thinking of mask maker too

[midnight reef]

Its only on SteamDB

[olive stag]

there aren't any, it's a steam badge

[midnight zinc]

That’s the point, they probably don’t either. They don’t seem like the types to meticulously write out everything that’s not explained in the game on a google doc somewhere, they’re artists and game designers first and foremost. They make cool shit and come up with lore after, and probably didn’t think through every logistical hurdle for the radiance’s sealing

[olive stag]

that's for sure, i was more referring to the whole picture, i.e. details about Wyrms, higher beings, the ancient civilizations, etc.

[dark rune]

can i just mention the unending hilarity that the moth tribe was attracted to whatever higher being shone brightest

[midnight zinc]

Well I think it’s pretty clear that the focusing ability was used, since that’s how we do it, but the question is how did it focus the radiance into itself without it already being sealed?

[obsidian quail]

what do the levels mean?

oh so we are getting more Void for sure

[dark rune]

oh yeah this is what i was thinking of earlier when i said i thought i saw something about soul totems, this has implications

[obsidian quail]

uh is the everbloom the delicate flower

[dark rune]

very possibly

[midnight reef]

likely

[olive stag]

it's pratically the same sprite

[dark rune]

which means the depressed five knight lady (i forget her name i will call her Lemur) mightve been to pharloom

[obsidian quail]

or another one from those lands brought them

[dark rune]

yeah

[midnight zinc]

Lemur 💀

[midnight reef]

Which would make Pharloom french...

[olive stag]

nemer

no, zemer

[midnight zinc]

Memer

[dark rune]

on her dialogue page

[midnight zinc]

Yeah that’s a different word

[dark rune]

Le'mer, Lemur, same thing

[midnight zinc]

Lemurs are the things from Madagascar

[dark rune]

yeah i watched wild kratts

[midnight zinc]

Hell yeah, W show

[dark rune]

hm

She is not originally from Hallownest, being native to an area outside of the kingdom known as "lands serene". It is from this place that she also brought Delicate Flowers

[dark rune]

they shouldve let the cook drown when they saw a glimpse of a new species in that one episode

[olive stag]

i find it weird that there's another kind of white flower in silksong

there's a white rose

[midnight zinc]

I loved that guy, he was hilarious. Zack was a little bitch tho, hated him

[dark rune]

i find it insanely funny that, oversimplified, wild kratts is two guys who can turn into animals destroying peoples' businesses

[midnight zinc]

That just sounds awesome

[dark rune]

was that the pizza-eating gamer stereotype

[midnight zinc]

I guess they’re eco fascists or smth

[dark rune]

or was that the villain with the v plain

[midnight zinc]

He’s like a Silicon Valley type guy.

[dark rune]

yeah v plain guy

[midnight zinc]

Yeah

There was also the fashion designer, and that one single episode with the lady who just wanted to make parking lots, that was the episode with bears

God describing this show makes it sound so stupid lmao

[dark rune]

honestly i love parking lots and parking garages, i dont like them stopping her

[midnight zinc]

Oh hell no

[dark rune]

new final wild kratts episode idea
they find a factory pumping out a moderate amount of gas in critical toey territory, turns out it was making a cure to cancer and they get sent to jail

[midnight zinc]

I mean I kinda get what you mean, I like a good parking garage that has a nice view at the top, or even better one that goes underground, but she was gonna destroy a whole island filled with wildlife

[midnight zinc]

This is the plot of Common Side Effects

Fire show on HBO btw

[dark rune]

i dont care about view or anything i just like how parking garages look

[midnight zinc]

Or Max or whatever that streaming service is called now

[dark rune]

i love cities and i breath the LED light

[midnight zinc]

Respectfully wtf

[dark rune]

what can i say concrete is cool

[midnight zinc]

Nah you’re a goblin wth, I hate LEDs

It’s alright, top five artificial surface I guess

[dark rune]

nature is cool but like 🤤

i dig a cool office building with lots of windows

[midnight zinc]

I mean it looks cool

[dark rune]

send me to dubai

[midnight zinc]

The fun parts of cities are on the street level tho, not drone shots

[midnight zinc]

Dubai?? Nah that place is weird

[dark rune]

i agree but i like the view too, partially implanted because an overhead drone shot of chicago at night was the screensaver on smartboards at my school

[midnight zinc]

You’ve been indoctrinated

[dark rune]

i just like buildings and the burj kalifa reminds me of borg tower

[midnight zinc]

Borg tower? What is that

[dark rune]

cyrus borg from ninjago's hq

[midnight zinc]

Oh shit ninjago okay

[dark rune]

i live next to 20 acres of mostly forest and the trees in the back look pretty cool sometimes but my dad was a naturalist at a park and i have had nature stuff shoved down my throat for as long as i can remember. we OWN the 20 acres. its nice and all but.. i also enjoy suburbs 😈

[midnight zinc]

I’m from the suburbs, this place sucks

[dark rune]

depends on your HOA

[midnight zinc]

They just feel fake, I like the country and I like the city, but the in between is awful

[dark rune]

here's a picture i took through my window like last year or early this year

[midnight zinc]

Damn, Midwest?

[dark rune]

if i had to live remotely a snowy mountain would be cool

[dark rune]

ya, dontcha know

oh hi summy99 we are definitely discussing silksong lore

[midnight zinc]

Oh shit yeah I forgot this was a hollow knight server

[dark rune]

💀 its fine we can swap if someone wants to talk lore, otherwise anywhere is fair game imo

itd be different if there were others here talking silksong

[midnight zinc]

True, we just started yapping about wild kratts and everyone left

[dark rune]

LOL

[dark rune]

perhaps i sided with the city because i got tired of my dad making me look at birds and plants i didnt care about

[midnight zinc]

Fair enough, I guess it wouldn’t be fun if someone made you do it

I’ve always been outdoory, I remember my brother and I went birding a lot with my dad

[dark rune]

one time he came to my preschool and gave everyone bug lolipops

[midnight zinc]

That’s fire

[dark rune]

lolipops are already a big commitment, once you start licking it you cant put it down anywhere, and then put a bug inside?

[midnight zinc]

I never understood the appeal of those

[obsidian quail]

they are delicious

[midnight zinc]

I guess it kinda looks like they’re trapped in amber, but I could never make myself eat a centipede

[dark rune]

oh right earlier this year there was the 13 year cicadas and he wanted me to get close to one he put on his finger and acted like i was a jerk when i didnt want to be very close to it

[midnight zinc]

Dang

That sucks

[dark rune]

he balances the lign between "You'll be fine!!!!!" and being an enabler

idk how

[midnight zinc]

We love an enabler dad 🙏

[dark rune]

he said "it wont bite you" but like i wasnt afraid of it biting me it just looks gross

[midnight zinc]

Fair enough

[dark rune]

we've circled back to bugs now we have grounds for claiming its silksong discussion if someone else gets here

[midnight zinc]

Wdym weve been talking about silksong this whole time

[dark rune]

you're right, silly me

[midnight zinc]

Doesn’t feel real that it’s gonna be out

When ts got announced I didn’t even have facial hair

[dark rune]

i have a friend who claims that he will succeed at spoiling it for me for no reason other than just to do it

[midnight zinc]

That means you have to play it faster and better than he does

[dark rune]

he's not playing it

[dark rune]

he's also a germaphobe which caused horrible side effects on my sister
want an example?
today after church he washed his hands
then we went to a place for food
he washed his hands AGAIN because he touched the "dirty menu"
seeing my dad do this kinda stuff has resulted in she refuses to use a toilet if someone else did

[midnight zinc]

He’s a germaphobe who lets a cicada rest on his finger?

[dark rune]

Yes.

[midnight zinc]

Well that’s interesting

[dark rune]

she's also a vegetarian because ig she thought too much like 10 years ago and now she wont eat "dead things"

[midnight zinc]

All food is dead things tf

That’s like the worst reason you could be vegetarian

[dark rune]

it's not like he tried to make us follow his habits (that much (besides having us wash our hands a bit more often)) but this has resulted terribly

bc of his enablistic parenting style im probably messed up too (theres stuff i havent said about my sister) in ways i dont realize

[midnight zinc]

Damn

[terse wadi]

Tf did I come back to

[dark rune]

silksong discussion

[midnight zinc]

Silksong

[terse wadi]

idk man, sounds like weird life shit

[dark rune]

bugs bugs bugs

[midnight zinc]

Don’t scroll too far up

[dark rune]

bapanada

[real crater]

Tf did I come back to

[midnight zinc]

Damn was everyone taking a fucking nap why are you all coming back at once

[dark rune]

i dont mind changing from silksong to silksong lore so tell us your theories

[terse wadi]

Bro we said the same thing twinsies fr

[terse wadi]

Idk, I'm playing Mario Party Jamboree on my Switch and Hades 2 on my PC and tabbed into discord

[midnight zinc]

You’re playing two games at once?

[dark rune]

one hand for each game ig

[midnight zinc]

That’s insane

[dark rune]

i think hades 2 is a roguelite

[rough bolt]

damn thats some crazy lore

[dark rune]

bugs bugs bugs

bornet
boid

[terse wadi]

I am peak gaming

[dark rune]

you're playing PEAK too????

[terse wadi]

I'm not but I could ig

[real crater]

Greeting peak gaming

[dark rune]

using a foot to be able to play 3 games would be crazy

[midnight zinc]

That’d be impressive toe dexterity

[terse wadi]

idk Mario ODysssey speedrunners play with their feet and hands

[midnight zinc]

Imagine what their rooms smell like

[dark rune]

i can hear the "proof?" commenters from a mile away

"we're gonna need a foot cam. bro why you wearing socks?"

[midnight zinc]

This but unironically

[terse wadi]

I mean, if both their hands are occupied, how else they moving the other controller

[dark rune]

tongue

[terse wadi]

Most of them have hand cams

Well, just them in general ngl

[dark rune]

does anyone ACTUALLY know what the proper way is to use the crossout thing?

[midnight zinc]

Huh?

[real crater]

Tf did I came back to

[terse wadi]

huh

[midnight zinc]

Bro you were just here

[dark rune]

is it like "my name is Ventriii Burger" as in saying "what? the first thing? no, i never suggested that"

[real crater]

U were not talking about feet then

[midnight zinc]

Your name is burger?

[dark rune]

according to that it would be

[midnight zinc]

We’re not talking about feet now

[dark rune]

as in denying the obvious truth

or is it just plain denying? "i need help"

[midnight zinc]

Imma be honest I have no idea what you’re talking about, either you’re not speaking in complete sentences or I’m not sober yet and this come down is taking longer than I expected

Either way I’m tired and am gonna go to bed now

[dark rune]

ok

cya o/

well now who do i talk totally real silksong lore with

there are no theories left

[flat hearth]

3.5 days brothers

[whole hawk]

When do we think the "Mantis Claws" moment will happen? The part where players can just go wherever and playthroughs diverge

[mighty oyster]

Maybe the ants?

[rancid river]

Honestly, given Hornet's moveset? After the ||Bell Beast boss fight||

Probably not very accurate but she's schmoovin fr

[whole hawk]

My personal bets are on Bellhart but I could also see a world where a player just passes through Bellhart, heads straight to Farfields, and ends up on the far end of Greymoor

[quiet bloom]

SS in 3 day

[rancid river]

Would y'all be interested if I did a Pharloom's Folly analysis (garuntee somebody's already done one but I liek to be included)

[quartz salmon]

sure

[quartz salmon]

seems like Bellhart is the literal heart of Pharloom (as in, its located in the middle)

so when you get there the world will be more open to explore

[whole hawk]

Is there official confirmation that Bellhart is in the middle? I mean I probably believe it considering the map layout. Still makes me wonder just how high the map can get. I wonder if it's literally just the Gilded City right above it.

[viscid ridge]

Yo do you guys think we'll get lore tablets in mossy grotto that explains the controls like in Hollow Knight.

I always assumed that there isn't anything in the gane that explains how to play because of the demo, but maybe its only in the full game?

[quartz salmon]

who knows

seems like its all just written on the screen rather than lore tablets but maybe the release version is different

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i didn an in depth analysis yesterday but id love to hear what you think of it?