sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

clearly didn't see the coccoon animation

[mental grotto]

i mean id be surprised if void isnt like, a universal force that shows up time to time rather than a hallownest specific entity

but we'll find out when the games out

[peak heath]

I mean she says that like the knight has a void and she doesn't no

Though our strength is born of similar source, that part of you, that crucial emptiness, I do not share.

[cunning dirge]

what theroy was unconfirmed by the watcher

[sinful nimbus]

i was joking grrrr

[peak heath]

Oh. Sometimes can't tell when yuo'er joking

[coarse sapphire]

Why would she be void its not like she was born in the abyss she is just a normal half-god girl

[uneven lake]

It’s more complicated then “confirmed” or “denied”, simply the direction they took the story. No one expected it and it was very marginal in the base game

They combined the rot being a known factor with a take on the wheel flowers that few belived to be true and made an entire story out of it

[crystal marsh]

She's not Void she herself says it

[uneven lake]

Personally that’s what I think for now, but the fetal black hornet and the void at the end of the trailer have me doubting

[peak heath]

She says she isn't void, so unles herrah made her drink the void juice

[crystal marsh]

the fetal black Hornet is char/carbonized tissue, it isn't Void nor does it act like it

[sinful nimbus]

char?

whats with people saying hornet was burnt smh

[spiral furnace]

because i lit hornet on fire :3

[stark rover]

the implications of having Void present in Pharloom is really interesting to me

[uneven lake]

What makes you think she’s been burnt?

Her body is already black, so we just have to explain why her mask is as well

[crystal marsh]

the way it disperses

[violet coral]

Neo hornet is void theory is crazy

[uneven lake]

We’ve seen from Hollow knight in dream no more that injuries to the mask could be said to stick with the body in some sympathetic way. Perhaps hornet isint void, and neither is ghost’ shade. Rather, the shade and Hornets embers are a similar form, hornet being at peace with herself dosent have to battle herself from the start

[midnight zinc]

People ignoring this and deciding that they’d rather it not be in Pharloom for arbitrary “it’s lame and repetitive” reasons is weird. If there’s an area like the abyss in other kingdoms then that already tells us things about the void we couldn’t know based off of the first game alone

[uneven lake]

I think it’s also important to remember Hornet just dropping a charred corpse of herself for some reason isint a satisfying theory, we can excuse some creative thinking and break in tradition

We shall know for certain in fourteen days, until then I’d rather have interesting conversations

Regrets/shades being universal atleast presents a framework to look at

[crystal marsh]

plenty of beings in HK die without leaving Void remnants so that's not an argument

for the Nth time she says herself that she's not Void, and that's the end of the argument

[uneven lake]

Broken vessel leaves no shade, and we don’t see any outside of the abyss anyways. I’m convinced something about Ghost and Hornet is different

[peak heath]

Hornet herself says she is not void

[lapis creek]

its ok serrara you can rest now

[midnight zinc]

Honestly yeah let’s enjoy the last few days we have of true Silksong speculation we have left.

[uneven lake]

Tsk, I didn’t say she was void

[midnight zinc]

*No shade that we see

[uneven lake]

Man I remember why I didn’t like talking lore with you

[peak heath]

BV has been... Broken!! WOAH!!! mayhaps their shade went somewhere else
Knight isn't different I think. We see other shades, no?

[velvet badger]

i open this channel for the first time and i see “hornet isn’t void” why are we still discussing this yall 😭

[lapis creek]

i used to think lore regulars were too hard on people

[midnight zinc]

This channel is gonna be absolute cancer for at least a week or two once it’s out

[lapis creek]

but it clearly got us nowhere

[peak heath]

I gotta mute this whole server and 150% the game

[lapis creek]

this is like how measles is coming back

[blissful harbor]

what

[peak heath]

We not even 112%ing this shit we're 124%ing it

[lapis creek]

it might not be measles

[peak heath]

I wonder who the freakslug is

What is she holding

[crystal marsh]

uhh #sk-lore message

[foggy fractal]

a pen probably

[peak heath]

Why is she bald...

[lapis creek]

nah they didnt say hornet is void

[molten edge]

It’s a feather she’s a himejoshi writing Hornet x Lace fanfics

[midnight zinc]

I think it’s less a matter of how “hard” on others the discussion tends to be, but rather how unnecessarily rude some people people are

[peak heath]

andy spotted in lore channels?!

[lapis creek]

they said theyre ready for the retcon to happen

[crystal marsh]

it's not going to happen

[peak heath]

She's writing hornet x herself x lace [plot twist!]

[lapis creek]

theres an important difference, but also some important similarities

[crystal marsh]

TC wouldn't blatantly throw out something from the original name that's important to her identity

[peak heath]

Also this looks kinda like godhome. IIMM SO EXICTED TO SEE THIS EEE

[lapis creek]

ok but have you considered the colour black?

[midnight zinc]

I think if they did retcon that I’d probably uninstall the game

[lapis creek]

ok but have you considered the colour gold?

[blissful harbor]

this just looks like the citadel

[lapis creek]

im sorry i had to make the joke it was right there

[gentle ledge]

I thought it was her going to the surface

[sinful nimbus]

last judge arena

[crystal marsh]

it's likely the citadel

[lapis creek]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/measles-is-making-a-comeback-can-we-stop-it-202503063091 nvm it is measles

[foggy fractal]

looks like the last judge arena

[tawdry flare]

I cannot WAIT for the refight of Sharpe after you kill the other Steel Assassins. Void Assassin Sharpe is going to be the best boss

[peak heath]

The what arena

[foggy fractal]

boss

[lapis creek]

ugh you got me i am on the sharpe is void train

[tawdry flare]

I would send a picture but mods want to suppress me. It's the guy with the incense

[molten edge]

25 of the 40 bosses are just steel assassins

[lapis creek]

for now

[midnight zinc]

I’m still not sure why people deny this, I feel like it’s really obvious

[blissful harbor]

also damn how beautiful this cutscene is
i want an animated series with 4 seasons now

[lapis creek]

there isnt robust evidence

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe void believers will be covered in assassin bugs and then whipped as an ironic punishment

[sinful nimbus]

If Sharpe is void so is Hornet

[midnight zinc]

That sounds pretty sick actually

[peak heath]

Sharpe is so voidful, unlike the lame hornet

Do you see the vision

[tawdry flare]

This is the Last Judge. Thanks Powdered

[sinful nimbus]

They're both black why isn't hornet void 🥱

[midnight zinc]

So Sharpe is void? That’s what I’m hearing.

[sinful nimbus]

You got me

[peak heath]

Hm,, actually. It has visible carapaces. Perhaps not void.

[tawdry flare]

https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/hkwiki/images/8/80/Sharpe_Attack.gif

[peak heath]

WHAT

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't look like a void tendril

[peak heath]

That's just a void tendril

[lapis creek]

it kinda does though

[sinful nimbus]

L + Ratio + Its called a proboscis + Your execution is on the 3rd of September

[molten edge]

What does it look like then

[lapis creek]

why does it extend like that

[sinful nimbus]

A black whip

[midnight zinc]

Does THK not? I’m struggling to remember

[peak heath]

It is black, long and hooked. It looks exactly like a void tendril

[tawdry flare]

i mean it looks exactly like pv's tendril attack but uh

[sinful nimbus]

Its visibly not hooked

[peak heath]

It does actually I'm silly

[molten edge]

Why does his proboscis do that then

[midnight zinc]

There’s still hope!

[peak heath]

Rewatch that gif one more time

[sinful nimbus]

That's how his biology works

[molten edge]

I mean designs can change

[lapis creek]

like ok im gonna keep an open mind here right it could be normal but we'll have to wait until he's dead to decide

[sinful nimbus]

no real reason to believe this is the case

[sinful nimbus]

"What if they changed sharpe to be void later down the line"
What if they changed Sherma to be void later down the line

[molten edge]

The idea that TC would make a minor adjustment to the way void tendrils look is pretty reasonable

[sinful nimbus]

Motion blur? Pale Lurker has this too

[tawdry flare]

PALE LURKER IS VOID. HOLY CRAP

[lapis creek]

nah guys you dont get it those are just pv's intestines theyre just like that

[sinful nimbus]

But there's no real reason to suppose this is a void tendril in the first place so this logic doesn't really work

[peak heath]

I can't excuse this as moption blur

[molten edge]

It looks very similar to one idk what to say

[sinful nimbus]

If a black long flailing thing looks like void tendrils to you then Pale Lurker is also void

[peak heath]

It has void hooks/spikes

[molten edge]

I mean this also extends. A lot

[vestal swan]

Thk hands moment

[sinful nimbus]

No it doesn't

[peak heath]

Again, I don't rlly see this as motion blur lolol

[lapis creek]

pale lurker is noncanon because i said so

[sinful nimbus]

The void hooks/spikes look pretty different to the pretty clear motion blur sharpe has

[peak heath]

Yeah i jus remembered

[molten edge]

Proboscises aren’t known for extending into whips but void tendrils can do that

[vestal swan]

Anyway nothing is definitive one way or the other we should not be wasting our time on "is this person void arguments" it will get answered eventually

[sinful nimbus]

It is literally called a proboscis though?

[mental grotto]

this looks like void, would be cool if it was but we dont KNOW yet so lets not ARGUE about it😭😭

[peak heath]

Is powdered void 🤔

[vestal swan]

Suspiciously proboscis shaped mould:

[tawdry flare]

i MUST be correct

[peak heath]

Also I like ur pfp powdered its quite based

[severe siren]

That kissing thing is cursed I want to kill it off rip

[sinful nimbus]

Why would anyone except PK have use for void moulds

[peak heath]

You get it beat it and fling it about like zote dw

[vestal swan]

Obedient resilient robots

[molten edge]

I am actually astounded

[tawdry flare]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-silksong-slap-die-gif-9537344353063924808

[peak heath]

Trust me I am john cherry it is real

[severe siren]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-slap-fast-die-silksong-gif-11906425766064942386

[midnight zinc]

Slap impact frames is wild

[tawdry flare]

that one's even better

[sinful nimbus]

Those work with any lousy mechanism, power source, and essence

[vestal swan]

We don't see anybody slapping the harness on a bug and telling them to do shit though

[severe siren]

I love bellbeast

[vestal swan]

Void is like free build-a-robot goo

[sinful nimbus]

Void was utilized for a reason pretty specific to Hallownest's circumstances

[lapis creek]

this is a bit like saying that the tendrils in the abyss are actually plants

[severe siren]

For the second(?) boss the arena looks so nice and shiny

[sinful nimbus]

Heck even Hallownest has non-void robots

[deft dragon]

deserved tho

[vestal swan]

It was utilized for a specific reason but that does not mean it's not a good resource for a variety of reasons

[sinful nimbus]

in what way

[lapis creek]

tendrils are a thing that plants have

[foggy fractal]

yeah i polished everything so it looks really shiny and nice

[stark rover]

thank you andy

[peak heath]

Thanks bro 🙏🏻

[vestal swan]

I want to see somebody die to this the flash is going to blind the shit out of you

[lapis creek]

they use a biological descriptor to refer to something that, although shaped that way, is not of biological origin

[balmy reef]

HORNET YOURE GONNA GET CRUSHED

[peak heath]

Andy is actually team cherry and the other team cherryers are just puppets

[lapis creek]

void shaped like proboscis, rather than homegrown proboscis

[tawdry flare]

She's attacking the bell beast it's completely deserved

[sinful nimbus]

Cyn was saying it wasn't a proboscis it was a void tendril because proboscises aren't known for extending

[lapis creek]

what im saying is that it being called a proboscis is not evidence one way or the other

[molten edge]

Yeah I mean a biological proboscis like one a regular bug would have obviously

[lapis creek]

idk if that was something you agreed with if it is im sorry

[sinful nimbus]

It being called a whiplike proboscis means there isn't really any reason to assume its void

[foggy fractal]

yes here is definitely real screenshot exclusive leak guys (this is fake mods please no ban)

[severe siren]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-peter-griffin-omg-oh-my-god-who-the-hell-cares-gif-4637130

[midnight zinc]

Even though the steel assassins are definitely absolutely 100% void don’t @ me, I’m more interested learning about the void’s origin and how it fits into lore than fighting more void enemies

[sinful nimbus]

Its just explained as part of sharpe's biology as an assassin bug

[peak heath]

Thanks for taking 7 years to polish all the rocks and dirt 🙏🏻

[foggy fractal]

np

[tawdry flare]

Luckily the Void is coming to the real world on September 4th! Still don't know when Silksong is coming out though

why havent they updated the steam page yet

[lapis creek]

but if they tell you more about the void's origin we will need to know about the origin of that origin

[peak heath]

did you have to painstakingly polish every inch with a dirty cloth

[midnight zinc]

Wrong! Oil spill

[lapis creek]

the void came out of the void shitter bug 10000000000000000000 years ago

[foggy fractal]

yes

[lapis creek]

but who created the void shitter bug? will they elaborate on this?

[severe siren]

Clover area is gonna be awesome

[peak heath]

Oil 🤤

[vestal swan]

I wonder if that's acid

[severe siren]

Wait this is lore oops

[vestal swan]

It's fine

[peak heath]

Looks like the Isma place...

[tawdry flare]

the bugs look so fun

[severe siren]

I was in lore this whole time! Good

[vestal swan]

We're not going to be strict with the rules until the game is here

[sinful nimbus]

ss-lore has ZERO rules go nuts

[tawdry flare]

i think we see here swimming in it

[vestal swan]

Unless you're being a dumbass

[peak heath]

🥜

[midnight zinc]

I mean if the assassins are void they were created by completely different means than the moulds or vessels, the fact that they have names tells us that they have more individuality than moulds and more clear personalities than vessels. That in itself would be very very interesting to explore.

[sinful nimbus]

Can I call BV a girl here

[vestal swan]

No

[tawdry flare]

NSFW

[severe siren]

Wait how the hell are you guys going to moderate the channels without playing the game at least

[peak heath]

No you will be perma banned

[sinful nimbus]

Why nottttt

[coarse gale]

A

[foggy fractal]

someone has to take the bullet and stay behind

[severe siren]

Like thats just biting the bullet tor spoilers

[tawdry flare]

Total shutdown

[terse wadi]

What thing we angry at now

[fathom bolt]

Guys what's the lore?

[vestal swan]

Simo is going to mail me a copy 3 days early

[foggy fractal]

OR OR SIX HOURSLOWMODE EVERYWHERE.

[midnight zinc]

Void is Hornet

[fathom bolt]

😭

[peak heath]

The chance of BV being girl is the chance of silklsong being delayed...

[severe siren]

Unironically he should cause thats not fair in my eyes

[sinful nimbus]

My theory is that simo and benji man the server and the mods respond to the occasional ping

[vestal swan]

Necro has volunteered for that and some of the other mods might still stay on, but the original plan was to have Simo and Benji do most of the work while we play the game

[severe siren]

Ohhhh

[vestal swan]

Judging by the fact that they don't stay and chat long they might still be busy though...

[midnight zinc]

Ari and William should pick up the slack and moderate the server for a while

[tawdry flare]

Through Necro's sacrifice, Hollowmain lasts eternal...

[severe siren]

https://tenor.com/view/sonfys-gif-2540652325955471116

[lapis creek]

what a terrible thing to sacrifice for

[languid saffron]

But the biggest question is, it will be a sequel or a prequel?

[tawdry flare]

Sequel

[severe siren]

No.

[sinful nimbus]

sequel baby

[vestal swan]

Okay let's not post family Guy in here

[sinful nimbus]

this can't be

[midnight zinc]

I was gonna say sequel but I wanna argue, it’s probably a prequel

[sinful nimbus]

Powdewred can y ou KILL this guy

[vestal swan]

It's not a prequel that idea came from a bad translation that was nuked from orbit

[severe siren]

Oh mb

[lapis creek]

oh no. quick everyone! get the argument that youve made 100 times since 2020

[sinful nimbus]

anyway its probably a sequel because the weavers aren't in Hallownest

[vestal swan]

Grimm is the god of fire he's the only one that used real fire

[severe siren]

The six year PvS debate will cease in two weeks

[midnight zinc]

But Pharloom is their home so the events of the game could be the reason why they went to Hallownest in the first place

[vestal swan]

The what debate

[sinful nimbus]

wonder what the equivalent of purity discussions will be

[vestal swan]

Hopefully nothing is still that vague

[sinful nimbus]

Then why is Hornet there

[severe siren]

Prequel vs Sequel

[tawdry flare]

Alternate Universe truthers are going to WIN!!

[vestal swan]

Much more characters are alive to tell their own tales and hornet can ask them specific questions

[midnight zinc]

Time travel

[sinful nimbus]

true...

[vestal swan]

That question has been dead for years people just don't know how to read

[midnight zinc]

Genuinely don’t even wanna think about this

[flat totem]

in attempt to actually talk about lore and not family guy, im going to put this here:

[severe siren]

Even though there is a clear answer it’s still brought up a ton and especially the whole jokerpsa for an ending

[flat totem]

blacksmith dont like hornet kill :D but make kill thingy

[vestal swan]

I like that she's disturbed by the fact that hornet uses so many things to kill vessels, like hornet has an entire arsenal of ideas that she cooked up to kill vessels after she was trained by the weavers and it scares the fuck out of normal people

[foggy fractal]

confirmed that Hornet is DEVIOUS.

[sinful nimbus]

but purity is goated..

[severe siren]

I love that description

[lapis creek]

i think the hollowness debate was a lot of just us trying to invent metaphysics for a game that doesnt present them super consistently

[midnight zinc]

Yeah but the conversations are annoying

[lapis creek]

at least in the early stage

[sinful nimbus]

You just need to change your mindset

[vestal swan]

It's like a scene in a vampire movie when you hand the weapon to the normal people and it's something that injects the vampire with like garlic and holy water and you tell them that they're going to boil from the inside out it's like damn can I just cut their head off

[peak heath]

The dialogue will be peak

[sinful nimbus]

Purity conversations are better if you don't take them seriously

[peak heath]

The protaganist speaking will be new [and welcome]

[crude dome]

Ok we must agree is ss a sequel or prequel

[vestal swan]

We just had that conversation it's not a prequel

[flat totem]

Also, does anybody know why the workers lost their mind? What does this mean? In the second item description

[crude dome]

Also where js farloom

[foggy fractal]

no idea why

[sinful nimbus]

oh prequel vs sequel will be the new purityu discussion im calling it

[midnight zinc]

I don’t take anything seriously, I just don’t like discussing lore with people who haven’t even beaten the game and got their opinions from mossbag

[vestal swan]

It's not that they've lost their mind, or maybe that it is, but it more seems like they're saying they don't care about the danger anymore. Like a construction worker that's comfortable at his workplace not wearing his helmet or something stupid

[sinful nimbus]

those are the best conversations

[flat totem]

I thought it had something to do with the enemies having bells on their head.

[sinful nimbus]

They're haunted

[lapis creek]

how would that happen? I would maybe compare it more to hornet is void, where there is clearly more than enough nonconflicting information to arrive at a conclusion

[crude dome]

But just bcz people have disagreed with u doesnt mean they are those people like let them have opinions

[vestal swan]

It could be both it could be that theyre brainwashed and they no longer care about the danger

[foggy fractal]

yep

[midnight zinc]

I don’t even know what this means, obviously people have their own opinions

[vestal swan]

But if the Forge still operating then she's probably not talking about being brainwashed

[foggy fractal]

they are haunted by silk and song !

[crude dome]

I’m just saying that if u dont personally agree with someone doesnt mean they are one of these people

[lapis creek]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[midnight zinc]

Uh correct

[crude dome]

Yes

[vestal swan]

The problem that was presented was that the people don't have their own opinions they just regurgitate YouTube stuff

Anyway

[midnight zinc]

But if someone says “but mossbag said X” then that’s a different scenario. Idk where you got the idea I was talking about everyone who says something incorrect.

Sorry, “says their own opinion”

[crude dome]

That’s fine though like agreeing with what mossbag said is there opinion

[midnight zinc]

[lapis creek]

yeah but if they want to voice their opinion in a public space they should have thought about it enough to defend it

how frail do you have to be to beg people to let you have an opinion

[crude dome]

I’m just saying that if mossbag says something and u use the same points to prove said thing u aren’t like a hollow knight poser or anything

[lapis creek]

what same points

[vestal swan]

Welllllll

YouTubers don't really put together a whole bunch of solid points when they make a theory video

[midnight zinc]

I don’t know why I have to explain this, but the issue is when someone cites one of his videos so say something that’s WRONG

[crude dome]

Huh

[midnight zinc]

I hate to break it to you but not everything is up to interpretation entirely

[crude dome]

It really is

[lapis creek]

the dialogue in the game? If you take the time and try to examine the evidence that is there, no one will call you a 'hollow knight poser' at best they will just come up with a counterargument

[vestal swan]

It's not...

Theories can be wrong and YouTubers are wrong all of the time

If you go and quote an incorrect theory from a YouTuber you can't just say well I share this opinion, you're wrong you have to go look into evidence yourself

[peak heath]

The game is up to interpretation, and I interpet it as a dream 😌

[midnight zinc]

Just because certain things are unconfirmed and much of the dialogue is hard to understand upon first read doesn’t mean there’s no solid story or hard facts about certain characters or events.

[lapis creek]

youre playing into the narrative that they've constructed where people can't have certain opinions

you can have whatever opinion you want but you're not entitled to the tolerance and acceptance of your ideas

[languid saffron]

Ok to be a sequel, But to which end?

[crude dome]

But it’s like Shakespeare dj wr really know the truest intention we could make theories abt it but the only way u can truly know it is if u are Shakespeare himself

[midnight zinc]

Lmfao

[vestal swan]

That's not how any of this works

[lapis creek]

can hamlet fly? does he have fucking wings?

[vestal swan]

We're not asking why the door is red

[crude dome]

We really are though

[vestal swan]

We aren't

[lapis creek]

idk i guess i'll go ask shakespeare because i'm too much of a lobotomite to figure it out myself

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but the ultimate goal of storytelling is to convey the story to the audience

[peak heath]

Shocker, people can be wrong. They aren't opinions or interpretations it's wrong

[crude dome]

But we don’t know what’s right that’s what I’m saying

[midnight zinc]

Which ending? Allegedly, all of them, not sure I buy that but we’ll see

[peak heath]

We do??

[vestal swan]

You're saying it like we can never know there's a right answer and that's wrong, we know plenty of the answers

[tawdry flare]

Newest of the fallen. Take up your sword and fight.

[lapis creek]

sometimes we don't but we certainly can say what's wrong and compare the quality of arguments based on evidence

[midnight zinc]

And we’re saying that’s not true, most of the story is known

[crude dome]

We may know plenty of answers but that’s not really the opinions that people are debating

[lapis creek]

give us an example

[vestal swan]

Yes that is the stupid shit that pops up from YouTube videos, people will literally quote an NPC and then make the theory based on the exact opposite of what they said

Repeatedly

[crude dome]

Ok I’m just saying that as a community people should be nice to people who aren’t versed and play 100s of hours in hollow knight

[midnight zinc]

That’s completely different from what you’ve been saying lol

[peak heath]

You don't need 100s of hours to know basic things'

I have like 70 ish hours

[crude dome]

Like?

[lapis creek]

ok ill give you an example

[vestal swan]

We aren't being asses to people that don't know things, if you're mad at the facts being presented to you that's a you problem. You can't just repeat bad information like it's an answer and that's what most of them do

[midnight zinc]

Obviously if someone isn’t as well versed in the story and is trying to piece some stuff together they shouldn’t be cyberbullied. Doesn’t mean people have to hear them say something totally incorrect and be like “yeah man that’s your opinion, cool idea, totally valid reading of the story”

[lapis creek]

yesterday someone with nearly a decade of lore conversation behind them may or may not have said that the game explicitly states there are no humans in the hollow knight universe

[vestal swan]

That person may or may not have played the game in about 5 years

[lapis creek]

that's a verifiably false claim, the dialogue doesn't say anything explicitly or at all other than that the backers, specifically, are from a different universe

[sinful nimbus]

hollow knight poser

[crude dome]

Yes but I have seen in this chat and others that people disprove others just bcz they believe what a YouTuber like mksrbag believes

[crude dome]

That is not what we are talking abt

[vestal swan]

I don't understand what you're saying, YouTubers are not evidence

[peak heath]

No it's cause they're wrong

[lapis creek]

claims like this deserve to be discussed based on their merits

[sinful nimbus]

I've seen people discredit ideas by attacking the youtuber (Which is coincidentally always CCmaci) too and that's not really cool

[vestal swan]

There's a certain YouTuber with an animal mascot that did this exact thing I mentioned earlier, if you come in here and start quoting and debating that theory you're immediately going to get shut down because the entire thing is wrong

[lapis creek]

because it's possible to conclude whether something is true or false

[spark valve]

do you expect people to be accountable for how other people have argued for or against claims because unless somebody currently here has done that idk what your point is

[vestal swan]

I mean if 100% of the source is bad do you want to keep looking at it?

[spark valve]

yes that is not cool

[sinful nimbus]

Literal next message

[peak heath]

There are some people that are bad lore youtubers but good youtubers like likeable yknow

[midnight zinc]

Who

[crude dome]

Ok I agree

[peak heath]

I mean like I've heard CCMaci isn't very reliable but he's fun yknow

[sinful nimbus]

Well just saying "this guy is always wrong" doesn't really promote a healthy discussion in anyway

[lapis creek]

that is true

[sinful nimbus]

Its also not lore discussion

[lapis creek]

the point is you should use evidence from the game if you want to be taken seriously

[spark valve]

I wonder if there's a term for that, something about targeting the person over argument

[crude dome]

But to at is what I am saying

[vestal swan]

If you're quoting somebody that's always wrong I'm not going to listen to you, that's my point. Also if they're wrong that much I'm never going to go back to the channel and look again

[midnight zinc]

Oh I totally misread your message, I thought you were talking about a YouTuber called “likable”

[peak heath]

Guy named likeable:

[vestal swan]

Does it count as ad hoenheim (I don't know how to spell it) when the reason your discounting their takes is because of how incorrect they are?

[crude dome]

Thank u

[lapis creek]

if there were a youtuber that was right 70% of the time would you go back and check if references were made to their content?

[crude dome]

That is all I’m saying

[vestal swan]

Good point I mean to go back and watch the Mossbag correction video and I keep putting it off

[sinful nimbus]

Well you're not actually debunking the claim though

[midnight zinc]

Hoenheim sounds like an awesome place from Norse mythology

[lapis creek]

i think the point to be made is that we want to discuss the material of the game itself

[sinful nimbus]

If someone goes "I saw in a cc video that the pale beings planned void heart all along" and you just say "CC is generally inaccurate" they don't really get any reason as to why that theory is incorrect

[lapis creek]

unless they really believe that you are generally correct

[vestal swan]

That theory on a surface level is horribly incorrect and just further proves that it is a bad source of information, it takes like two sentences to debunk it.
My response to that would be they didn't the game says nothing about that and that entire video is wrong and the YouTuber often gets things wrong

And the problem is people just take YouTubers at face value

Like who would go on the internet and tell lies type shit

[midnight zinc]

Who would go on the internet just to tell the truth??

[lapis creek]

i mean youre also on the internet how do we know youre not lying

[vestal swan]

You're right I'm a 7,000-year-old elf/dwarf hybrid and I work on silksong by slipping pieces of paper with ideas through Ari's floor boards and walls

[mental grotto]

upon scrolling up why is there full on drama bc someones interpretation was different

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not saying CC is credible or anything I'm just saying that handwaving it away because the source is bad doesn't really promote any fun discussions and is a lousy ad hominem

[vestal swan]

Hi welcome to lore

[mental grotto]

whats wrong with ccmaci his videos are cool

[lapis creek]

nobodys interpretation was actually different it was an argument about the principle

[vestal swan]

Oh hominem

[sinful nimbus]

something something if you watch cc you aren't a real HK fan

[vestal swan]

I was thinking of the dad from Fullmetal...

[vestal swan]

And I don't really consider it hand waving the source if the theory that's being presented is also terrible, like if somebody came in here with a good sounding theory that didn't conflict with things you could figure out in like 2 seconds of reading and said they found it in a cc video then my bias would be broken.

[sinful nimbus]

the glorious seal lantern theory

though that's more of an observation

[lapis creek]

i would go deeper into this. why doesn't white lady acknowledge that this was the plan? why does she tell the knight to usurp the vessel if there is a better plan? why didn't the pale beings put the plan into action earlier? identify the places where the game should support the theory so people see what's missing

[vestal swan]

Seal lantern?

Why did I immediately think of the marine animal

[lapis creek]

sea lantern minecraft

[sinful nimbus]

Black egg lanterns don't seem to use lumaflies

See this is good because it ties into the theory that PK is a soul god

[vestal swan]

Immediately discarded

[sinful nimbus]

Rats

[lapis creek]

i see what you mean but it's hand waving the source if you hand wave the source. regardless of whether the theory presented is also terrible. all you're saying is that you wouldn't do this to a good theory, i guess because a good theory deserves to be judged for itself

[terse wadi]

I'd suggest that we all agree the story of hallownest is a tragic one but I bet someone would argue even that for shits and giggles

[foggy fractal]

bc seals are cute and awesome :D

[lapis creek]

anyway is the grimm troupe capable of intergalactic travel through the dream realm

[spark valve]

the only issue is the absence of galaxies

[dire kettle]

Nope i think its just a silly effect

[lapis creek]

i would say the issue is that everyone who comes to dirtmouth is a bug

[spark valve]

if a lantern got lit several galaxies away they could probably leap to it

[lapis creek]

do they have termites in the andromeda as well

[sinful nimbus]

they need an astronaut scout though

[dire kettle]

it would be cool if a grimm troupe scouter showed up in pharloom

[vestal swan]

If a good theory comes out of a bad source it's no longer a terrible source, it's just iffy. Mossbag had a video basically calling hornet void, he has since made many better videos and a corrections video (which I still haven't seen) I don't tell people he's a shitty source and not to watch his content anymore

[vestal swan]

If an alien has a nightmare yes

[sinful nimbus]

Why would he back down from hornet being void I thought he was goated

[lapis creek]

it doesnt make sense

[dire kettle]

he was tooken by the HORNET VOID NON BELIVERS and gaslit

[lapis creek]

why does grimmchild just so happen to be scaled to the hollow knight bugs

[sinful nimbus]

?

[lapis creek]

why does grimm know who pk is

if they are aliens from space

[sinful nimbus]

he's got scarlet eyes and they're also gathering information (essence) from the kingdom

[peak heath]

Bait used to be beleivable

[lapis creek]

but do you see why there are too many coincidences

[sinful nimbus]

not really

[lapis creek]

unless divine is not actually a termite and thats just one of the 'forms dreamed' jiji was talking about

[sinful nimbus]

are you implying termites are localized to Hallownest

[vestal swan]

We only see one that might be a dude, that sentence is backwards but I don't care to fix it

Wait are you implying that everything the troupe shows us is an illusion

[pseudo lily]

Powdered is your pfp the bug that needs to watch its mf tone

[vestal swan]

Go outside eat some grass

Yes

His name is Susie

[pseudo lily]

Cool name

[midnight zinc]

I leave for 20 minutes and come back to this, what on earth

[terse wadi]

On the contrary

It's not on Earth

[lapis creek]

im implying that it's weird for the grimm troupe to bear so many similarities to the bugs of hallownest if they come from space

[pseudo lily]

Just a thought, but couldn’t it be possible that the seal in the tent isn’t literally Lainakea?

[spark valve]

maybe that's where they're going next

[vestal swan]

Why in the hell are you assuming they come from space all of a sudden

I thought the theory was they could travel to space

[sinful nimbus]

They don't really? Excluding the regular bugs that joined the troupe

Grimm is a weird bat-vampire-spider and the grimmkin are ghosts

[lapis creek]

because if they are capable of space travel and we don't know where they're from why would we assume they come from anywhere near hallownest

[vestal swan]

......

[lapis creek]

yes it's just funny

[vestal swan]

Fuck it they're aliens

[pseudo lily]

Fair enough. I always thought it was just a representation of the nightmare realm, which is the boring line of thought.

[vestal swan]

What the hell is Lana Kia

[lapis creek]

the supercluster pictured on the right of the image i sent

of which our galaxy is indicated by the red dot

[vestal swan]

Ahh

I thought it sounded familiar but I could not remember from what I thought you were talking about some final fantasy shit

[spark valve]

or a representation of the physical world with points marked where lanterns are, the nightmare realm is kind of small and inside grimm idk why there would be a map or representation of it there

[turbid walrus]

chat the game does not exist what lore can you possibly be discussing </3

[lapis creek]

well yeah but have they been there before

[sinful nimbus]

Well from the latest trailer we have confirmation that Hornet leaves void behind on death

[pseudo lily]

Is the nightmare realm contained inside Grimm though? I can’t remember of the top of my head where, but somewhere there’s a quote from Grimm saying “through dream I travel”.

[lapis creek]

have they ever recruited something that isn't a bug? i mean i guess that problem exists in the context of silksong as well

[turbid walrus]

and we know this how?

[pseudo lily]

Wait what when was this

[turbid walrus]

the gameplay trailer?, and are you sure its not just black things

[lapis creek]

star has tasted it

[sinful nimbus]

Oh its the demo but either way I was joking

[turbid walrus]

no memes/low effort

[spark valve]

I guess it depends on how you read the seer poem but the heart is and that dream is isolated one way or the other

[sinful nimbus]

Demma #hk-lore rules

[vestal swan]

No..

[sinful nimbus]

Powdered said this place isn't as strict

[turbid walrus]

powdered is stupiod

[sinful nimbus]

Powdered mute her

[vestal swan]

I said we're not going to be super strict with the rules until the game is here but we're not going to put up with obviously wrong stupid shit

[lapis creek]

like hornet being void

[turbid walrus]

oh ok tahts more fair

[pseudo lily]

hi andy

[foggy fractal]

such as ?

[spark valve]

hornet doesn't leave non-diegetic goo behind when she doesn't die

[lapis creek]

or powdered being stupid

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[fervent tree]

wsp

[vestal swan]

[lapis creek]

I MEANT IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING "OBVIOUSLY STUPID AND UNTRUE" PLEASE DONT SHOOT ME

[pseudo lily]

That’s what they all say

[lapis creek]

shoot tammo instead he denies the diegetic existence of the black stuff

[foggy fractal]

aye mods y'know what to do

[sinful nimbus]

50 bucks says its void representative of Hornet's regrets

And they could get away with it because its not canon anyway

[vestal swan]

Or she does have a cannon respawn mechanic and she's making a new puppet of herself every time she's killed and what we see crumbling away is her old body

That's actually terrifying don't let that be true

[pseudo lily]

Unrelated lore question: who do we think the robed figure at 1:25 in the trailer is?

The cutscene reminds me of the nailmasters

[vestal swan]

Honestly no idea

[spark valve]

probably something like that

[vestal swan]

He is using the same type of weapon as lace I think

[charred dragon]

yeah I think Hornet will pick up fighting abilities like people in Pharloom use

[spark valve]

definitely a sparring match so maybe it's when you unlock the charged needle attack

could also be a crest acquisition

[pseudo lily]

It may just be that pins are a common weapon in Pharloom.

[vestal swan]

I haven't been paying attention on purpose but I haven't seen many more of them

[molten edge]

They should let her do that inhaling attack

[charred dragon]

pretty sure this is her doing the same thing Lace does

[lapis creek]

i mean we never see her die in hollow knight

[charred dragon]

so true

[spark valve]

I mean they're flurries of thrusts it's not that distinctive but yes

probably the needle art for that crest

[spark pine]

Re spawn is probably not canon again

[lapis creek]

i do wonder, if a character explicitly makes reference to her having died does that make it canon

or is that part also noncanon

[spark valve]

not necessarily but potentially

it would depend which creates more problems

[spark pine]

No, jiji talks about the shade

[lapis creek]

yeah but she doesnt say you died does she

[charred dragon]

I wonder what the explanation is for why crests change the way your attacks work so wildly

[spark valve]

Anime logic

[spark pine]

But she acknowledges it’s existence which amounts to the same thing

[spark valve]

No it doesn’t that’s pretty different

[vestal swan]

Not really, she's explaining the existence of something not how it got there

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet swipes her needle three times very fast creating the shape of a claw mark...

[vestal swan]

And jiji doesn't even do a good job of explaining what a shade is

[foggy fractal]

so you're telling me Hornet has light speed attack speed ?

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[foggy fractal]

Hornet > Shade Lord then. case closed.

[spark pine]

Flying enemy from this look like revek

[spark valve]

Nah radiance is also light speed and she loses

[lapis creek]

her light is slow though

[tacit scarab]

The power scaling goes crazy

[spark valve]

No the knight is just super fast

[pseudo lily]

Shade Lord has to go right to… ludicrous speed!

[foggy fractal]

FUCK

[spark valve]

The fight is slowed down to be even possible for the player to keep track of

[lapis creek]

maybe the dream realm just has a very high refractive index

[foggy fractal]

Shade Lord still on top then......

[charred dragon]

crazy that pretty much everything we've seen is just the bottom right corner (I assume Seth is under the Citadel to the left, the Citadel entrance is the top left, no clue where the coral is)

[spark valve]

Coral is probably like above greymoor

[edgy stone]

The marrow is a lots larger than I thought

[charred dragon]

they all kind of look like Xero actually

[pseudo lily]

I’d be willing to bet the coral is very high up. All the screenshots and clips have Hornet with a bunch of masks, and it seems like there’s a general upward trend in progression, opposite to HK.

[foggy fractal]

wonder how big Greymoor will actually be

[charred dragon]

I remember someone speculated that rain in some other scene was dropping down from the coral area but I don't remember the details of that

[spark pine]

Probably up-right for coral, near what looks like “craw lake”

[lapis creek]

theres another spirit that really looks like them

[pseudo lily]

Wait I just noticed something

[lapis creek]

i thought so too but apparently the birds are referred to as craws or crawbirds or smth

[edgy stone]

I hope the games interconectivity is still top notch

[pseudo lily]

Is the map the first reference to shellwood since zote’s nail?

[spark valve]

I assume craw is like crawdad

[spark pine]

Man it looks small but there’s going to be 40 bosses so you know each of those rooms is really big

[edgy stone]

From what weve seen the ant area hunters march and deep docks play into eachother design wise

[spark valve]

Yes but shellwood is probably just a ctrl+f for wood

[edgy stone]

Shellwood is certainly the big swamp area weve seen right?

[charred dragon]

I didn't catch that the Bone Forest isn't on this map, so I guess that's on the other side

[spark pine]

Lol why is there a bench called halfway home

[lapis creek]

twas also what i thought but apparently it's something different

[edgy stone]

There being an orphanage makes sense I feel like

[pseudo lily]

Another thing. I wonder what those yellow pins are for? The red ones are clearly benches, and the gray and orange ones seem like custom markers.

[spark valve]

It’s hunter’s march and far fields and shit

[foggy fractal]

thats the sub area name I assume and a bench is just in that subarea

[lapis creek]

i think this is under the marrow

[charred dragon]

could be near Griddle

[spark valve]

Merchants

[edgy stone]

Someone pointed out the weird statue that appears 3 times in the map

[spark pine]

I mean it IS a LAKE so it would make sense to have water/coral

[pseudo lily]

Wouldn’t it be more likely to be the marrow? As in, bone marrow?

[edgy stone]

The pointed one thats fucking huge, I personally think they look like ink pens

[charred dragon]

I mean like the main part where everything is lava and corpses, I don't remember if that's actually in Silksong, I guess it could be the Far Fields but it looks different enough that I would think it's a different area

[spark valve]

Oh that’s the marrow

[lapis creek]

how do we know that

[spark valve]

Doesn’t take a lot of guessing to figure out which room this is that we’ve seen a gajillion times

[tacit scarab]

I'm thinking quest boards, maybe?

[charred dragon]

I thought the marrow was the area where everything is bells? I guess I misremembered

[edgy stone]

Like really odd this same thing appears 3 times

[charred dragon]

I assume these are those big black pipes but idk why it's cut off here

[spark valve]

Lava, DD to the right, long, it’s probably the room with the big statues

[pseudo lily]

My personal theory is those are the weaver holding cells where Hornet will get her silk abilities

[lapis creek]

i feel like the colour is a little off in the marrow

[charred dragon]

oh hm I think there's a solid chance these weaver rooms are actually inside the black pipes

[lapis creek]

but i could be wrong

i guess grey is already used

[edgy stone]

2 of them are also obstructed as well and kinda built into the map

[charred dragon]

the spider boss fight looks so sick

[lapis creek]

i still think there must be something under the marrow

[spark valve]

Probably where the golem is

[lapis creek]

is that not the forest of bones

[edgy stone]

Seems like the void is going to have some presence again if the date background is anything

[pseudo lily]

Forest of bones is the marrow

[spark valve]

‘Forest of bones’ is the HK version it’s split up into a bunch of shit in ss

[pseudo lily]

It was never officially called forest of bones in Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

I wouldn't be surprised if the void background is just a standard HK promotional thing

[spark valve]

DD basically situated in the middle of the areas which make up the forest of bones

[glossy skiff]

holy shit i never noticed how massive this map is going to be

[lapis creek]

works for me

[edgy stone]

It'd be interesting if hornet has to climb all the way up and then down again to face some incarnation of the void or something to do with it

[foggy fractal]

forest of bones eh ? wheres the sea of meat to boot

[lapis creek]

i hope one of them has the original name it's pretty cool

[edgy stone]

Kinda like how the knight has to go to the very top of the kingdom to reach the abyss

[lapis creek]

although the marrow is kind of borrowed from that

[spark valve]

Maybe it’ll be a different area under the marrow or something

[pseudo lily]

But there’s no pin in Bellhart, where we know there is a board.

[charred dragon]

pretty sure the Edge interview refers to the "Bone Forest" which is like forest of bones but lame

[lapis creek]

THATS WHAT I BEEN SAYING4

[glossy skiff]

based on the info saying we would get answers in skong, chances of bill (godhome boy) being answered?

[pseudo lily]

First of all, his name is Bill.

[glossy skiff]

I WAS ABOUT IT FIX IT

[spark valve]

There’s one on forge daughter it’s probably merchants

[tacit scarab]

Ah, I missed that, my bad

[lapis creek]

i hope thats relegated to dlc

[edgy stone]

It'd be cool if silksong ended up containing the actual void dlc

[lapis creek]

i dont want any etv in my main game

[pseudo lily]

I didn’t know we knew where FD was

[spark valve]

Isn’t that where? It was in the demos

[charred dragon]

who is that?

[lapis creek]

shade lord

[charred dragon]

ohhh

[pseudo lily]

I wouldn’t know, I didn’t get to play either.

[spark valve]

It’s not a question

[glossy skiff]

that would make sense for them to make the dlc packs correlated

[pseudo lily]

It is in the demo area tho

[edgy stone]

Because with that almost everything outside of the third playable character will have been used ffom the kickstarter

[pseudo lily]

Well that’ll be when we get Zoteboat in 2040

[lapis creek]

i think they could do a dlc where you revisit hallownest after embrace the void and go into the abyss

[edgy stone]

Unless we play as someone else during a segment in ss

[charred dragon]

I think there's a solid chance that the shade lord + freed hollow knight stuff was supposed to set up the hornet dlc and then they realized they couldn't do it, I have no idea how it would connect to Silksong

[vestal swan]

That's just TK but big

[lapis creek]

it would take. quite a bit of building but it could be done

[glossy skiff]

the 7 year release dates chain from 2025 goes crazy

[midnight zinc]

Do we actually know if there’s gonna be dlc? The only reason it was in hollow knight was because of needed backer funding, they’ve had six years and way more money, why wouldn’t they just put all of the content in the base game?

[edgy stone]

Weird how steam hasnt updated yet

[charred dragon]

play hollow knight shifted 5cm in the z direction

[spark valve]

Hopefully and probably not whatsoever

[sinful nimbus]

dlc was confirmed because TC sucks

[glossy skiff]

maybe a db thing

[lapis creek]

the bloomberg article today confirmed more content would be coming out after the base game

[pseudo lily]

They said straight up that they are adding more stuff

[midnight zinc]

Oh nah they’re frauds 😭

[charred dragon]

they decided that it should probably come out at some point

[sinful nimbus]

One of the many reasons to stone them on the 3rd

[glossy skiff]

how did knight become big

[edgy stone]

If the game is in a releasable state I wonder if tram cherry is gonna do a big press tour

[pseudo lily]

Sorry, why does tc sucking imply dlc, or vice versa? I fail to see the through line.

[vestal swan]

Mushed all the void together

[midnight zinc]

Wait what article is this from? There was one I saw that had a paywall, was it that one?

[sinful nimbus]

HK DLC sucked and wasn't well integrated into the base game because you can't really change a whole lot to make a coherent expansion

[vestal swan]

If they're going to have DLC that means we're going to have to wait for more content which means the waiting is not over and the story is not over when the game gets here

[terse warren]

Bloomberg article said dlc is gonna happen

[edgy stone]

New silksong dlc once a year every year

[lapis creek]

i dont think an abyss expansion pre-void heart would make too much sense

cause like what would be living down there?

[edgy stone]

Also is dlc even the proper name? Are they not just expansions since they're not a separate purchase or download

At least for hk case

[sinful nimbus]

yeah they're called expansions

[lapis creek]

but then it doesn't really make too much sense after void heart either because the knight is nice and friendly

[midnight zinc]

This is actually insane, “months and years to come”. So not just one dlc, but several just like HK

[spark valve]

Abyss expansion was a good cut I’m sorry but it’s true

[charred dragon]

I don't remember, do we have any indication that the ancient civilization was only there in modern hallownest? seems like they're so big it wouldn't be that hard to walk to places where other kingdoms currently are

[midnight zinc]

Mask Maker dialogue?

[sinful nimbus]

ooooh

[glossy skiff]

lowkey makes me think they had a bunch of ideas and concepts they put on hold so they could release the game, or at least put the brakes on (like ari said, “stop drawing”)

[edgy stone]

We dont really learn a damn thing outside of hallownest

[spark valve]

No but the absence of totems in ss will probably make it pretty clear they weren’t there

[sinful nimbus]

Yaaay heck yeah mask maker

[lapis creek]

it doesnt have to be the same ancient civ either

[edgy stone]

Certainly could be clans or divisions of that civilization. Would make sense for pharloom to not have any more totems since its such an industrial society they probably would've removed them in tge act of expansion

We could fine a hidden one perhaps in the outskirts and wilds

[sinful nimbus]

idk its not like soul totems were removed from peak

[spark valve]

Pharloom is less developed than Hallownest

Almost no part of Hallownest is actually wild

Or was wild when the kingdom was around

[midnight zinc]

What’s the more advanced technology, bells or lasers?

[pseudo lily]

The lasers are naturally occurring

[charred dragon]

also do we have any idea why all of the other Wyrms are dead, I'm pretty sure the Void killed the PK but idk if that's true

[vestal swan]

The lasers were not an on purpose advancement in technology

[thick oriole]

Bugs can just shoot lasers btw lmao

[spark valve]

We’re not even talking about that it’s level of infrastructure

[vestal swan]

But they had speakers

Pharloom just has a giant forge

And music

[midnight zinc]

So I’m hearing the answer is bells

[edgy stone]

Always has been bells

[sinful nimbus]

Realistically what technology does Pharloom have that Hallownest doesn't

[midnight zinc]

It probably did not, and if Bardoon is reliable they’re probably all dead. There don’t need to be wyrms for civilizations to form.

[vestal swan]

Some of pharloom does seem more like villagey, but I don't think we can safely say they are less advanced yet there's so much we haven't seen and they're capable of making hornets tools on request

[spark valve]

String instruments

[gentle aspen]

The only relatively untamed part of Hallownest seems to be what

Queen’s Gardens

[sinful nimbus]

not real music anyway

[spark valve]

KE and Deepnest

[gentle aspen]

And those were probably overgrown since the kingdom’s demise

[gentle aspen]

I mean the actual kingdom

not like, random bumfuck nowhere (relatively)

[grand ridge]

silktember

[spark valve]

QG is overgrown but it’s a garden it’s supposed to have a lot of plants and the entire place is buildings

[charred dragon]

I know that they are all dead I'm asking if we have any idea why all of these super powerful gods got killed

[grand ridge]

queens gardens?

[gentle aspen]

I think they just died out but we dunno

[spark valve]

Well aside from a handful of rooms

[thick oriole]

its called kingdoms edge for a reason

[foggy fractal]

speaking of Pharloom also has trams right ? in the citadel ?

[edgy stone]

They seem to have normal lifespans and probably couldn't breed

[midnight zinc]

I doubt it’s one singular reason. But all civilizations fall eventually. The world of HK is old as balls.

[spark valve]

Probably not a uniform cause

[gentle aspen]

they don’t have normal lifespans and the one we do see can breed

[edgy stone]

Because the pale king never made another wyrm yknow, and his wyrn form has to fie

[spark valve]

But also we don’t know that all the second forms are dead

[edgy stone]

Well normal as in they die and breed as in make more wyrms

[charred dragon]

oh I definitely figured they didn't age, don't know if that's specified

[pseudo lily]

If PK is an indicator of a trend, it may be that Wyrms dying and reducing their shells is a natural part of their process of making kingdoms. If that’s the case, bardoon’s line of “with its like gone the world is smaller” could just be referring to the big wormy Wyrms, not the small PK types.

[charred dragon]

maybe Hornet being a half-Wyrm is significant

[edgy stone]

The pale king had hybrid children but from what we've seen hornet has no characteristics of a wyrm other than her soul power

[eternal gazelle]

She's got PK's facial structure

[edgy stone]

Could be because he had her in his king form but id wager the wyrms in that form probably just couldnt make more wyrms

[charred dragon]

I mean "from what we've seen" is a pretty big qualifier, there's a game coming out about her

[edgy stone]

Due to their nature they're also extremely territorial if the pk is an example and wouldnt breed with another wyrm

[midnight zinc]

Maybe not essential to the story but her being half god, specifically half species of god that is now extinct, will be very noteworthy to any characters who know what wyrms are

[pseudo lily]

With PK yapping on and on about how his kingdom will last eternal, he probably has some form of longevity compared to other bugs.

[edgy stone]

I feel like the major reason is probably the fact wyrms wouldn't mate with eachother

[pseudo lily]

And Hornet seems to have a similar trait, being that she’s in the prime of her life despite being older than Elderbug.

[spark valve]

The god who wants to rule an eternal kingdom probably won’t keel over in a few decades just because

[midnight zinc]

Well then that begs the million dollar question: where do they come from?

[cold hinge]

tell me this isn't the same sound

[edgy stone]

I mean the radiance is an actual god where does she come from

[crystal marsh]

it's identical

[midnight zinc]

Also good question, but she doesn’t have a physical form, so that can be chalked up to dream world fuckery. Also she’s one of a kind afawk. The wyrms were an entire SPECIES that existed all over the world and then died out.

[edgy stone]

The wyrms mightve lived since the beginning of the world and died out over time due to the nature of crumbling kingdoms

[sinful cliff]

Look at the void particles coming up too

[sinful nimbus]

They be fantasy dragons do they need a concrete origin

[crystal marsh]

we have no idea how old wyrms are as a species so the first half is baseless

[midnight zinc]

No im just saying if they don’t reproduce then that does beg the question of how they come into being

[vestal swan]

That question exists for literally every deity

[edgy stone]

We're certainly gonna learn more about wyrms or at least the pks power due to hornets unique nature

[sinful nimbus]

I mean that'd still exist even if they did

[terse warren]

speaking of, wonder if any similar beacons could be in pharloom

we know bugs can think without the presence of PK's beacon in the first game, but would this mean every bug in pharloom is smart by default?

[sinful nimbus]

To reproduce like that you need two members of the species in the first place

So where did they come from

[edgy stone]

I feel like wyrms not breeding with eachother makes sense if their natural born instinct is to form and and make a kingdom

[spark valve]

Probably

[edgy stone]

Thats inherently isolationist

We still dont know what the black wyrm is but it resulted in some battle

[foggy fractal]

it was me

[midnight zinc]

The point I was making was that if they don’t reproduce and just came into being like other gods, that doesn’t explain why wyrms are a type of god that consistently and repeatedly formed over and over again, and also why they for some reason stopped doing that

[broken quiver]

Guys, opinions here, skong before or after HK lorewise?

[pseudo lily]

Almost certainly after

[midnight zinc]

Not that that means they necessarily DO reproduce with other wyrms, just that that’s an interesting thing that’s unique about them compared to all other gods we know about

[tawdry flare]

I give it a 50/50 between Alternate Universe/Timeline and Sequel

[shy magnet]

alternate universe is wild where did you get that from

[broken quiver]

I think in sequel too

[wraith mango]

Is the floor made of spools of silk?

[tawdry flare]

Well if you want it to be separate from Hollow Knight and not have to deal with its endings, just make it an alternate timeline

[broken quiver]

Maybe from siblings ending?

[tawdry flare]

Nah Silksong can take place after Sealed Siblings

[shy magnet]

fully believe its a sequel

[tawdry flare]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[shy magnet]

thats why they made it in a separate kingdom far far away from hallownest and gave hornet a power reset

[tawdry flare]

You’re shifting the goalposts

[tacit scarab]

Given the way the ones near the end are cut to fit around the big piece Hornet is standing on, I would say it's just fancy tiles or something

[shy magnet]

it doesnt need to be an alternate timeline or smth like that its just a sequel

[broken quiver]

Hmmmm

Understood

[shy magnet]

i have no clue what this means if im being real

[tawdry flare]

Me neither I just repeated a term I heard

[edgy stone]

They might be a by product of an actual god like hoe the moths were

[midnight zinc]

While this is technically true, this has always been a faulty argument to me. The seals on the black egg function completely different than the one on the cage, which looks to be a more standard seal that doesn’t have a source of power tied to any living beings. Also the bugs who capture her aren’t the ones that have those small flies that break the seals, so idk why they’d be able to break the black egg seal.

[edgy stone]

And that god died or some shit so they just had no source anymore

[shy magnet]

so real

[midnight zinc]

The god that creates other gods that are already stronger than most gods. That’s wild.

Regardless I don’t think we’ll ever learn about the origins of wyrms, that’s one of those things that’s cooler to leave unanswered imo

[spark valve]

There’s no reason to think they won’t work and it being possible is all that’s necessary

[midnight zinc]

Well it’s only possible if specifically the bugs that capture her have the means to break seals, so unless we find out that they also have some of those seal breaking flies that’s weak reasoning

[edgy stone]

Certainly, only thing we'll learn more about them is probably their nature

[spark valve]

It’s possible that they’ll work period
That is sufficient

It doesn’t have to be demonstrated that they did do it, again, all it has to be is possible

I don’t know how to dumb it down more

All it needs to be compatible with sealed siblings is a conceivable chain of events which is obviously there

[midnight zinc]

I don’t know what role wyrms will even play in the story, it doesn’t seem like one formed Pharloom like with Hallownest. A lot of bugs in Hallownest knew what wyrms were but that’s because they lived there, iirc the only bugs from outside that knew of them were the Godseekers and Grimm, who both have special connections to and knowledge of godhood. So it’s entirely possible some specific bugs will know about wyrms but also I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re irrelevant to the main story and unknown to most characters. The world seems to be pretty vast and wyrms have probably been dead for a long time.

That being said, I’d be pretty shocked if Hornet’s half wyrm nature isn’t somehow significant to her role in the story.

[eternal gazelle]

I mean it's already significant just because it gave her magic powers that are circumstantially similar to the weavers'

[lapis creek]

if we find a reason to believe they wouldn't have seal-breaking flies, it would be a challenge to sealed siblings. until then, it works

[spark valve]

It would have to be a reason to think that seal breaking is exclusive to those flies AND that they didn’t have them AND that weavers wouldn’t have given intel on how to break it AND that the seal wouldn’t open when rad breaks out etc etc to every conceivable explanation

Also like the first thing you see in ss is a big flashy seal breaking I don’t know how anyone honestly claims that sealed siblings is impossible

[midnight zinc]

I just like arguing

[lapis creek]

sealed siblings is goofy but not impossible

[inland kayak]

boo

[eternal gazelle]

What

[inland kayak]

ukds deltarune thread user wild encounter

[eternal gazelle]

Oh I thought you were booing me off the stage

[inland kayak]

oh no -w-

[foggy fractal]

nah nah let's do it

[foggy fractal]

BOOOOOOOO YOU SUCK !!!! >:D

[edgy stone]

Same exact area no??

[eternal gazelle]

Maybe

[foggy fractal]

no idea but maybe

[edgy stone]

Does anyone have the full map

is not yet on google.

[foggy fractal]

?

[edgy stone]

Ty

These 2 could also work

But it does seem kinda like a flying platform like the first one

[foggy fractal]

I wonder what the ending-conditions are gonna be in Silksong

[lapis creek]

you and me both

[terse warren]

wonder what "...ways" to the right is

[foggy fractal]

ROYAL WATERWAYS BABY

[obsidian quail]

so the map goes to the left and right

[vestal swan]

CRAW LAKE

WOOOOO CRAWFISH

[foggy fractal]

yum

[rain pebble]

works logically ≠ makes sense narratively and from a storytelling perspective

[sinful nimbus]

Why would this not make sense narratively/from a storytelling perspective

[lapis creek]

sealed siblings being reversible is a little stupid i have to agree here

[rain pebble]

this

[lapis creek]

if it works it works but it's dumb from the frame of reference of hollow knight

[sinful nimbus]

I don't see the vision

[rain pebble]

handwavium magic butterfly introduced in the sequel allowing the bad ending with serious consequences to get walked back is not good storytelling or good writing imo

even if it "works" it feels cheap

[lapis creek]

i would consider it a retcon/fakeout because the game clearly did not want you to think 'oh she will just get out of there if somebody needs her'

[sinful nimbus]

The consequences of Hornet in Sealed Siblings are mainly secondary to the Knight's choices which are the primary focus

[lapis creek]

the idea that the dreamer seals can be undone like that is an invention to get around the fact that they wrote themselves into a corner

[sinful nimbus]

Also TC said they would account for all endings in future content regardless so even if you want to claim its bad writings its still there

[spark valve]

Sure but so what this is all obscure nonsense that’s irrelevant to anything anyways

[rain pebble]

Yes exactly. Which, again in my opinion, is not good writing or storytelling practice and tbh I expect Team Cherry to come up with something better

[flat totem]

what? hornet is half wyrm?

[foggy fractal]

ofc ! because Hollow Knight... has no lore.

[rain pebble]

Best case scenario I think, and also funniest, is that TC just never addresses it at all within the game

[lapis creek]

the ending is called sealed siblings and the only relevant difference is that hornet is in there otherwise it's functionally the same as the first ending

[spark valve]

Also sealed siblings isn’t like an important ending in and of itself, the only important thing is rad’s state which is unaffected by door state

[obsidian quail]

i assumed that scene with hornet in the cage will be the intro scene and what comes before gets handwaved?

[rain pebble]

sure its not important but that doesnt make retconing/handwaving it away good writing lol

[foggy fractal]

honestly yeah
everyone's saying prequel this or sequel that but imo theres a decent chance they never address it
leaving silksong's placement in timeline ambiguous

[sinful nimbus]

I don't really know how this changes what I said

[rain pebble]

I think this is most likely / the best outcome, what Hornet did in Hallownest will not really be addressed mainly because I can't see it being relevant to the plot

[lapis creek]

you said hornet's fate is secondary but it's the only distinguishing factor of that ending

[sinful nimbus]

Sealed Siblings only exists as a consequence of giving The Knight agency even with Void Heart

[spark valve]

They aren’t going to explicitly say the words. It is nonetheless indicated to be a sequel.

[rain pebble]

Yeah true, assuming Team Cherry will give explicit answers is kind of in my opinion

[lapis creek]

yeah it exists partially as an answer to where the weavers went

[obsidian quail]

i thought it was a sequel but how hornet got there won’t be addressed because there are different ways she could have been found based on Hollow Knight

[spark valve]

That is most likely the case

[foggy fractal]

whatever you say idk hk lore I barely remember half of that game ! been a while since I played it

[foggy fractal]

true that

[obsidian quail]

so do bugs in pharloom worship the Weavers? is that their home

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't seem like it and yes it is their home

[lapis creek]

i think it's reasonable as a headcanon for how sealed siblings could lead to silksong, to maintain the 'all endings are canon' concept

if that's really important to you

[shrewd tusk]

lorreee

[obsidian quail]

Weavers are pretty magical i thought they’d have a cult

[lapis creek]

but idk if they knew they wanted a hornet sequel when they made that statement and tbh it's nicer for me to assume they came to their senses and chose dnm

[spark valve]

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter

[foggy fractal]

as long as the song is silky everything will be fine

[lapis creek]

do you mean that weird writing isnt important or that they probably wont make it too important to the story

[spark valve]

The latter

[lapis creek]

i agree

[spark valve]

HK ending won’t affect shit it could be any or none

[lapis creek]

i hope they dont, and we are left to justify how sealed siblings could hypothetically have led to ss

[vestal swan]

Writing?

Oh

[foggy fractal]

🖊️ 📜

[vestal swan]

I thought there was talk about Susie's scrolls

[foggy fractal]

no wanna talk about it

[vestal swan]

Nah not now I'm trying to cook supper

[foggy fractal]

ok

[spark valve]

‘somehow’ is kind of where that line of thought can end

[pseudo lily]

85% chance it’s romance poems

[foggy fractal]

whats the other 15% ?

[pseudo lily]

“Somehow Hornet returned.”

[shrewd tusk]

love ur pfp btw

[pseudo lily]

No idea.

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[severe siren]

Wait is that time exact

[foggy fractal]

no I made it up

[tawdry flare]

no hold on i did it wrong

[spark valve]

Do you want an exact one

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20250904T10&p0=43&font=cursive :feelspkman:

[tawdry flare]

Hollow Knight: Silksong will release on <t:1756994400:F>, or <t:1756994400:R>.

[severe siren]

I swear to god they’re trolling

Oh well

The release time couldve been worse but wow Thursday? I shouldnt be salty but i kind of am

[pseudo lily]

Peak always drops on thursdays

[tawdry flare]

9 am is perfect for me so uh skissue ig

[pseudo lily]

Except when it’s Nightreign

[sinful nimbus]

whats wrong with thursday

[tawdry flare]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-neko-turbo-granny-stare-corner-gif-15723092332058858093

[pseudo lily]

Then it drops on Wednesday

[sinful nimbus]

You can semi play it for 2 days then lock in on the weekend

[tawdry flare]

How Did I get To lore

[sinful nimbus]

stay here its better than ss-disc 🥱

[pseudo lily]

Fool has class two days out of the week. Thursday is one of them.

[spark valve]

We have embeds and fewer new knights

[sinful nimbus]

RIP

[shrewd tusk]

it should be weekend im busy on thursday 🙁

[lapis creek]

this is a much more concise expression of what i was trying to say. thank you

[severe siren]

I essentially had a 28.57% chance of getting screwed

[edgy stone]

If it releases 12am Australiaan time on the 4th

[severe siren]

Just my luck

[edgy stone]

Wouldnt it release on the third in the states?

[pseudo lily]

Worse odds than a glass card, and that shit ruins me all the time

[severe siren]

Wait

[edgy stone]

Australia is ahead of the states

[severe siren]

Dont give me hope

[spark valve]

It doesn’t release midnight on the 4th Australian time

[tawdry flare]

nop look at the countdown

[severe siren]

Oh boooooooo

[vestal swan]

Don't be on the 3rd..

[spark valve]

It’s not

[edgy stone]

FUCK

[pseudo lily]

You’re louisianian, right? For you it’s the 4th at 9am

[edgy stone]

Why couldn't they drop it 12am their time

[severe siren]

But will the xbox timer differ from steam? Idk how all this works but for nightreign consoles had local midnight releases whereas steam had simultaneous global drop

[tawdry flare]

IDK

[severe siren]

Idk i did zero research

Im just coping

[spark valve]

I don’t know why it would be

[shrewd tusk]

i wish it would release on fridayyyy

[severe siren]

Literally any other day

[foggy fractal]

i wish i didn't have school so i can play silksong all day everyday

[edgy stone]

It would release 630 am for me

[severe siren]

I’d even take tuesday over thursday

[shrewd tusk]

i just want it to be weekend

[edgy stone]

So 2 hours before I have to head out

[shrewd tusk]

Please delay it

[empty fog]

Its Thursday so people from different timezones can play it on friday

[tawdry flare]

Haha what if Silksong dropped in 13 hours... that'd be so crazy haha

[vestal swan]

@severe siren what's wrong with Wednesday

[severe siren]

Nothing is wrong with wednesday

[vestal swan]

Or whatever Thursday

I keep thinking Wednesday because I have an appointment

[pseudo lily]

@vestal swan

[vestal swan]

[severe siren]

Bad RNG

[tawdry flare]

With your geriatrician?

[vestal swan]

To donate plasma

[tawdry flare]

Oh neat

[plush siren]

i have no work friday but then i have to work sat and sun and they're important work days so im just gonna have to 100% it in one day

[severe siren]

Hell nah you’re not gonna just burn through it all after who knows how long spent waiting

[pseudo lily]

Just take silk leave

[vestal swan]

Also this is the wrong SS channel to be discussing our schedules

[severe siren]

True

[shy magnet]

schedule discussion

[plush siren]

we need schedule channel plz

[pseudo lily]

It’s our personal lore

[foggy fractal]

yeah the word "lore" scare off the rest of the people so we have this channel all to ourselves !

[tawdry flare]

For two weeks, at least...

[gray loom]

I gotta mute this channel-

[terse warren]

ss stands for self

[graceful otter]

self song

[carmine blade]

Wonder what these things are on the map

[terse warren]

therewas some disc about it earlier iirc

[carmine blade]

Im not surprised

[vestal swan]

Maybe those spots where she strings up the area?

[terse warren]

.

[tawdry flare]

Is this Seth?

[severe siren]

The map kinda feels uncanny i cant describe why

[spark valve]

Probably weaver prisons one of them is where you get silk spear

[vestal swan]

Seth is lean and has a shield weapon

[edgy stone]

No its beth

[spark valve]

No but it’s such a weirdly plain design

[violet coral]

It's Leth

Weapon is like pilgrims?

[visual sorrel]

Anyone else think they look similar to Tiso?

[vestal swan]

No

[lapis creek]

signature weapon of pharloom

[severe siren]

They’re so adamant over just never showing us the steel assassins since 2019

Looking forward to them

[violet coral]

Yesss

[vestal swan]

Or weavers

[violet coral]

My ass thought they were void could I be right

[sinful nimbus]

No!!!

[severe siren]

Possible but i dont wanna see that discussion again

Snow monastery was real

[violet coral]

[severe siren]

I was right all along

[vestal swan]

It's funny that there's so many people against them being void but still want void in the game

We will find out though, unless they're not going to get into the game until the DLC........... I fucking hate that there's going to be DLC

[sinful nimbus]

no one wise wants void in the game either

[spark valve]

'''snow'''

[cunning dirge]

aren't the steel assasins related to steel soul jinn in some way

[severe siren]

Spore Monastery

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah same masters probably

[vestal swan]

Yeah isn't the snow in this game flowers and the one in the first game was dandruff

[violet coral]

'Oooh final boss gonna be shade lord' that shi would be ass!

[carmine blade]

Dead Dad Flakes

[tawdry flare]

probably