serious-discussion

[atomic hornet]

The uchicago math majors have to be decent compared to reg ppl

Reg school math majors

[velvet dagger]

Definitely some of them aren't very sharp

[sharp mulch]

No you don't

[atomic hornet]

You cant be an idiot and get in

[velvet dagger]

Or idk my second year self was a very harsh person

[sharp mulch]

Berkeley has a large math major

And most of the grading is quite nice

[velvet dagger]

I'm incredibly mellow now

[rancid meadow]

are you calling slim fat

[sharp mulch]

It's quite relaxed

[deep mango]

who's the large math major?

[sharp mulch]

No?

[deep mango]

me after quarantine

rip

[velvet dagger]

But at the time there was at least one person who made me think like

Fam how

[atomic hornet]

Whos the largest math major @deep mango

[velvet dagger]

Are you even listening to the lecture

[deep mango]

uhhh

[atomic hornet]

Is that what youre asking

[deep mango]

i have no idea

[sharp mulch]

I especially like the diversity of backgrounds that Berkeley math majors have

[rancid meadow]

I am the tallest math major.

[deep mango]

[atomic hornet]

Alpha

[sharp mulch]

I know some people who started with calc 1

As a math major

[atomic hornet]

Yea me bro

[deep mango]

yes like dami

[atomic hornet]

I did

[deep mango]

when he went to berkeley

[sharp mulch]

And Berkeley has a really diverse student population

[rancid meadow]

6'4 on a good day slim

[atomic hornet]

Lucky

Im 5’1

Jk not hating on short kings tho

[bronze pelican]

Me too, in fact several

[velvet dagger]

Oh I mean it's not about background lol it's more like how quick they are to pick stuff up

[atomic hornet]

5’8🤩

[velvet dagger]

I barely got credit for first quarter calc

[atomic hornet]

Yea could be worse

I could be 5’7

[sharp mulch]

It's really inspiring to me

[velvet dagger]

Didn't know what a Riemann sum was

[sharp mulch]

Like someone entered

Wasn't going to do math

[deep mango]

imagine, jesse towering over you, frothing at the mouth about ax-grothendieck....

[sharp mulch]

And really loved their first math class

[deep mango]

what an interesting thing to imagine

[sharp mulch]

And decided to do a math major

And by their last year, they were doing graduate classes!

[velvet dagger]

But like yeah in hindsight I kinda admire that he kept pushing to challenge himself

[deep mango]

mirza used to talk about how 5'11'' was so short

[bronze pelican]

I know someone who started in linguistics, got into math in junior year and in now doing a phd in math

[deep mango]

[velvet dagger]

But at the time I was like yo

[atomic hornet]

Yea i started in calc 1

[velvet dagger]

Why are you here

[atomic hornet]

Took 2 grad classes last semester

[velvet dagger]

Your questions are wasting time just tilt your head to the side

[deep mango]

[velvet dagger]

And think

[sharp mulch]

Berkeley has some really good professors

[velvet dagger]

I never actually said that out loud ofc

But yeah UChicago math majors are probably overall fine

[atomic hornet]

Being short is OP

Higher brain to body mass ratio

[bronze pelican]

I'm short

[velvet dagger]

5'11" is the correct height I think

[atomic hornet]

Massive IQ

The correct height lol

[deep mango]

as a fellow 5'11'' this is a big cope

[rancid meadow]

[velvet dagger]

It might be 6' or 5'10"

I'm not sure

[deep mango]

slim

[velvet dagger]

But I think it's 5'11"

[deep mango]

[velvet dagger]

5'10" is a nice number, 6' is sorta like

[deep mango]

[neat lintel]

oh, you're a 5'10 fan? name all 5'10 people

[atomic hornet]

Bri’ish ppl be like what does 5’10 mean

[velvet dagger]

Idk you can't fit in a car anymore

But it's clean

[atomic hornet]

Im 110 centremetres

[rancid meadow]

can't fit in a car

??

what

dami have you ever been in a car

[velvet dagger]

Yeah 6' can't fit in a car and 5'10" can't dunk so

[atomic hornet]

My dad is 6’4 and im 5’8

[rancid meadow]

I do have to buy the expensive airplane seats

[velvet dagger]

5'11" is that sweet spot

[atomic hornet]

Starting to think im not his

[rancid meadow]

but I've never had an issue with cars

I guess I don't sit in the backseat like a fucking child though

[velvet dagger]

Jesse come on you're just faking it at this point

No way you've been in a car

I don't believe it

[atomic hornet]

Player in the celtics is 7’6 lol

[rancid meadow]

yeah over 6'4 is a waste of resources

[velvet dagger]

I believe your height

[rancid meadow]

maybe you just travel in tiny cars sloth

[sharp mulch]

Is this the elementary theory of heights that SS are unaware of

[rancid meadow]

I know I can comfortably fit in a smart car

[deep mango]

[velvet dagger]

Sounds like you're using humor to cope but ok

[rancid meadow]

coping with all this knee pain from having to ball up in every car I get in yeah

[deep mango]

ball up deez nuts...?

pic of you next to tterra

[velvet dagger]

Show me a picture of you except instead of you it's an exceptional Lie algebra

[rancid meadow]

do you have lots of photos of you with your back to the camera next to another person slim

[velvet dagger]

Do you not?

[atomic hornet]

Average math major

[rancid meadow]

wolfs r scary as fuck

[sharp mulch]

Wolves are cute

They're all fluffy and stuff

[atomic hornet]

Bears r cute

[velvet dagger]

No thanks I choose life

[neat lintel]

jesse what the fuck does "MAT1300 Core Geometry is considered equivalent to MAT367" mean on the grad course form

[rancid meadow]

imagine coming across a 3 and a half foot tall wolf

[atomic hornet]

There was one on my campus

[sharp mulch]

What if I had a pet fox

[rancid meadow]

It means 1300 = 367

idk what core geometry is lmao

[velvet dagger]

He'll shine you Ange

[rancid meadow]

1300 is diff top no?

[neat lintel]

yes

[sharp mulch]

I don't get it

[neat lintel]

but

[rancid meadow]

well it means its equivalent I suppose

[neat lintel]

they're not even similar

[rancid meadow]

[neat lintel]

1300 covers like twice the content

this hurts me

[rancid meadow]

probably a mathematical maturity thing bro just do it

[neat lintel]

that's a waste of a credit and 600 dollars

[rancid meadow]

every pre-req at this university is just a mathematical maturity pre-req

cmv

[neat lintel]

i don't plan on taking it anymore

[rancid meadow]

have you not been following?

[deep mango]

when are we going to have the wolf emote set

[rancid meadow]

uoft bad

[sharp mulch]

[rancid meadow]

just skip 1300 and take 1301 ttera

[velvet dagger]

Why are you not taking difftop?

[neat lintel]

.

[velvet dagger]

There's no such thing as enough difftop

[forest jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/yawn-yawning-tired-af-tired-work-work-work-gif-13957755

[neat lintel]

department will probably let me skip it, but i also have no faith in the department

[sharp mulch]

Cute cat

[neat lintel]

nice cat gomez

[rancid meadow]

what tterra should actually take

MAT1351HF
TOPICS IN HOMOTOPY: HIGHER CATEGORIES WITH APPLICATIONS
A. Kupers

In this course we will learn the foundations of higher category theory, or more precisely ∞-categories. This is a technical subject that lies at the heart of recent results in homotopy, algebraic geometry, and number theory. Our approach will be through Joyal–Lurie’s quasicategories, though we will also discuss some alternative models. The end-goal of this course will be to develop the tools required to construct and study the stable ∞-category of spectra. Spectra are the objects of study in stable homotopy theory, and classical approaches to spectra have to contend with difficult coherence issues that are avoided in the higher-categorical approach. The topics we will discuss include: quasicategories as ∞-categories, complete Segal spaces as ∞-categories, comma ∞-categories, (co)limits, (co)cartesian fibrations, adjunctions, stable ∞-categories, t-structures, symmetric monoidal ∞-categories, the stable homotopy category, the smash product, commutative ring spectra, the Dold–Kan correspondence.

[neat lintel]

no

[rancid meadow]

yes

[forest jackal]

thank you, the gif is me rn

[rancid meadow]

this person is teaching me topology and algebra in the fall

[sharp mulch]

Isn't it around noon for you right now

[velvet dagger]

Hey Gomez you wanna talk about spectra?

[neat lintel]

what i should actually take

(The following is a tentative outline of the material to be covered.)

I. Introduction: examples, (un)constrained optimization, Lagrange
multipliers first and second variations.

II. Calculus of variations: examples (Dido problem, catenary, brachistochrone), weak and strong extrema, Euler-Lagrange equation, introduction to Hamiltonian formalism, integral and non-integral constraints.

III. From calculus of variations to optimal control: control system, cost functional, target set.

IV. The maximum principle: statement, ideas of proof, weak form, examples.

V. The Hamilton-Jacobi-Bellman equation: discrete problems, the principle of optimality.

VI. Lie brackets of vector fields, Frobenius theorem, nonholonomic constraints, examples (ball rolling, car parking), Chow-Rashevskii theorem, sub-Riemannian metrics.

[rancid meadow]

[sharp mulch]

That sounds like a good class

[rancid meadow]

ball rolling, car parking

lmao

[sharp mulch]

CoV and optimal control are very cool topics

[forest jackal]

yep, hence middle of workday sleepies. was a tiring weekend with family social committments.

[deep mango]

that does sound like a good class

[neat lintel]

i strongly want to take this

[rancid meadow]

imagine taking a grad course to model a ball rolling

[forest jackal]

coffee is brewing so will be buzzed shortly

[sharp mulch]

ryc you should've taken 170/195 with Evans

[forest jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/555-gif-20066897

[deep mango]

i should have

yes

[rancid meadow]

are you taking the Meinrenken class tera/?

[neat lintel]

if the department lets me

yes

[rancid meadow]

[neat lintel]

the thing is

[forest jackal]

I shouldn't talk too much about spectra today dami, I have some details to check and some things to write up.

[velvet dagger]

Too late

[forest jackal]

low energy rn so procrastinating on discord untill coffee is inside me

[velvet dagger]

So the spectrum of a cohomology theory is...

[forest jackal]

then will ride to office and get on the grind

[neat lintel]

the prerequisites for meinrenken's class are

1) MAT1300
2) basic symplectic geometry

and i'm worried they'll make me take 1300 (even though they say 367 is equivalent )

[rancid meadow]

mostly geometry

they wont lol

[velvet dagger]

Nah but yeah I was just trying to bait you. Really my mind has been way too scattered to do math effectively

[rancid meadow]

math department licks utsg math spec feet

[velvet dagger]

I need to just stop being a little bitch and read Iwaniec-Sarnak

[neat lintel]

wha t

[forest jackal]

or exploit your current state of mind and learn scattering theory

[velvet dagger]

Oh hah I got this free book

Dyatlov and Zworski

On scattering theory

[rancid meadow]

terra is being humble

[forest jackal]

the resonances book yeah? it's a good one

[neat lintel]

there's always someone stronger.

[velvet dagger]

Probably not gonna read it tho

Until later

[rancid meadow]

lots of the people doing double spec are pretty insane

[velvet dagger]

I've got so much shit to do

[rancid meadow]

like math/physics or math + cs

[neat lintel]

math+cs

[forest jackal]

one of the appendices presents some aspects of the semiclassical pseudo calculus better than zworskis book, so it is useful to have.

[rancid meadow]

depending on course choice it can be pretty intense tteppa

[neat lintel]

yeah but cs majors smell bad xd

[velvet dagger]

Ah gotcha

[rancid meadow]

theres always this one guy doing double math + phys spec I come across on Linkedin who terrifies me

[atomic hornet]

I was gonna double major in math and cs

[rancid meadow]

4.0 across a bunch of core grad courses + 4th year ug courses

[atomic hornet]

But cs at my school requires cs design and stupid classes like software engineering

[neat lintel]

math + cs double major (derogatory)

[atomic hornet]

So i just took all the theory classes they offer

Not counting towards me degree tho😐

Doesnt matter doe still graduating on time

[rancid meadow]

Current GPA: 4.000.
Expected graduation May 2022.

Selected Coursework:

• MAT436 Linear Operators
• MAT445 Representation Theory
• MAT454 Complex Analysis II
• MAT458 Advanced Real Analysis II
• MAT1300 Differential Topology
• MAT1341 Index Theory
• PHY424 Advanced Physics Laboratory
• PHY450 Relativistic Electrodynamics
• PHY456 Quantum Mechanics II
• PHY1500 Statistical Mechanics
  

[velvet dagger]

If I had to do a second major other than math it'd probably be CS or econ

[bronze pelican]

[velvet dagger]

Maybe philosophy

[atomic hornet]

Econ could be cool

[neat lintel]

all those courses and the first one you put is george's

[forest jackal]

ps dami, my chunkiest paper just got officially accepted. was first submitted like two years ago lol.

[atomic hornet]

Love cs tho

[bronze pelican]

No economics is bad

[velvet dagger]

Ooooo congrats fam

[rancid meadow]

that means its the hardest

[atomic hornet]

What is 400 lvl

[velvet dagger]

Submitted to Aoshima Journal of Analysis?

[neat lintel]

selected coursework

[rancid meadow]

tterra i think that guy is actually the best in the department going off of scholarships + prizes

[atomic hornet]

Wtf is index theory

[velvet dagger]

Did someone say index theory

[forest jackal]

the journal processing time can be very frustrating when you have applications to write

[neat lintel]

i've probably heard this guy's name

[forest jackal]

no, not aoshima, that would have been too ambitious

[rancid meadow]

not hard to find: sam li

[atomic hornet]

Annals of math

[neat lintel]

never heard of him.

[forest jackal]

they said my results were interesting but suggested a lesser rank journal like acta, annals or jams.

[rancid meadow]

anyways this is the linkedin profile I look at to feel bad about myself

[neat lintel]

why would you do this intentionally

[rancid meadow]

habit

[neat lintel]

[atomic hornet]

Bc they have a humiliation fetish

[naive stirrup]

advanced real analysis 2

[rancid meadow]

think its just grad analysis 2

[neat lintel]

it is

[naive stirrup]

lol in our school its just real analysis

[neat lintel]

i wonder what's going to happen in the seminar course i have to take

[naive stirrup]

ye

[neat lintel]

i haven't made a profile yet, so...

[rancid meadow]

Ultra is referencing themselves 🙄

[neat lintel]

what the fuck is it

[bronze pelican]

Ask the prof

[rancid meadow]

need to wait for the timetable to drop

or find the prof out

[neat lintel]

i hope it's geometry

[rancid meadow]

i miss school already

planning courses is the worst

thats your last mandatory course right terra?

[velvet dagger]

Lmao yeah

[neat lintel]

it is, jesse

[rancid meadow]

[velvet dagger]

I kinda miss undergrad's freedom as far as like, just checking out math

[neat lintel]

most looking forward to the control theory course

[rancid meadow]

work and this talk have been keeping me away from aluffi

[neat lintel]

geometry

why not both?

[bronze pelican]

What year of grad school are you dami

[sharp mulch]

[neat lintel]

@rancid meadow take control theory with me

[rancid meadow]

Prerequisites:
Courses of multivariable calculus, ordinary differential equations,
and linear algebra.

they will not let me do this

[neat lintel]

im sure you have those

[rancid meadow]

also I'd rather take a group based programming course than this

Not specialist level for ODEs or MVC, no

utsc, remember

[neat lintel]

does it say mat257 and mat267 explicitly

[rancid meadow]

[neat lintel]

if it does you're fucked, but if not, you might be fine

[rancid meadow]

i can't handle the department rejecting me again

[neat lintel]

[rancid meadow]

but yeah it genuinely does not sound interesting to me

[neat lintel]

reject the department

[rancid meadow]

maybe I can ask to audit the set theory course or smth

[velvet dagger]

I'm a rising third year grad student

[neat lintel]

you

[velvet dagger]

So it is kinda time to buckle down and do research

[rancid meadow]

TBA

MAT1404HF/MAT409H1F
INTRODUCTION TO MODEL THEORY AND SET THEORY
TBA
(View Timetable)
Set theory and its relations with other branches of mathematics. ZFC axioms. Ordinal and cardinal numbers. Reflection principle. Constructible sets and the continuum hypothesis. Introduction to independence proofs. Topics from large cardinals, infinitary combinatorics and descriptive set theory.

kind of a tease cause it says model theory but its just set theory

I wish Haim wasn't leaving

I bet he would've done that reading course with me

[last oxide]

always has been

[rancid meadow]

why sully

[velvet dagger]

So yeah I wish I got to do more topics that aren't as directly in my research area. Especially topology

[rancid meadow]

i see no mentions of stability theory on here

you know what sort of model theory I mean

[last oxide]

"a subset"

[bronze pelican]

I see

[rancid meadow]

the other guy I asked to do the reading course with is teaching another grad course in set theory: "TOPICS IN SET THEORY: GEOMETRICAL PARADOXES AND RAMSEY THEORY"

[bronze pelican]

I think I'm gonna spend a while in the begining of grad school just exploring a bunch of areas (in number theory ofc)

[rancid meadow]

ghosted me though

I'm very open to taking the course lol

[velvet dagger]

Also there's def some stuff that I'm learning more surface level than I'd want which are important for research.

[forest jackal]

can't believe you are third year already dami, time flies.

[last oxide]

what a big boi

[forest jackal]

I am getting fucking old lol.

[velvet dagger]

Yeah you knew me since I was third year undergrad lmfao

I was 20

My glory days

[bronze pelican]

[atomic hornet]

Wyd after grad school?

Postdoc

[velvet dagger]

If you continue in academia yeah

[atomic hornet]

Or immediate full prof at IAS?

I meant for you

Like do you want to continue academia

[bronze pelican]

Wyd after tenture ?

Die.

[forest jackal]

most people do that before tenure

[last oxide]

daminark is so used to answering questions in full generality that he cannot answer for himself

[velvet dagger]

Lol I'm thinking it's a longer answer

I want to continue in academia for sure. And I feel like I've got what it takes

I might be jerking myself off but when I'm focused I'm fucking ridiculous lol

[sly thistle]

Just finished an exam

[atomic hornet]

I was looking at vanderbilts math phd alumni. They have their advisor, phd dissertation title, and first position after graduating and the first position for one of their alumni was “deceased”.

Thought that was funny/weird.

First position: dead

[sharp mulch]

[atomic hornet]

Just leave it blank imo

[velvet dagger]

So yeah I feel like I could make it if I just stop being a bitch lol. But I've been struggling a lot with motivation in grad school and I'm not as good as I used to be as an undergrad

[forest jackal]

that's very common

[atomic hornet]

How hard is it to get a TT for someone at a top school?

Like T10 or T5?

[velvet dagger]

That + rough academic markets means, I should very seriously take academic exit route into account

And in that case finance and data science are very much the most appealing options

[forest jackal]

professional discord server admin and full time helper

[atomic hornet]

Yea ML is cool

And optimization stuff

Amazon does some optimization research

[bronze pelican]

Get PAID to help on Discord

[atomic hornet]

Or at least optimization research scientist positions

[velvet dagger]

But yeah I still think I can do academia. Like the only person who instantly comes to mind that I could legitimately never measure up to no matter how hard I try is Marianna Csornyei lol

She's so good it's scary

Also maybe Tao would be a bit tricky

[atomic hornet]

Wb scholze

[last oxide]

I mean
if you cant, youre taking a good chunk of academia with you buddy

[atomic hornet]

Or like any faculty member at IAS

[velvet dagger]

But like jokes aside I know I can do it

I just gotta learn to work again instead of just mope around all day

[atomic hornet]

Ok then do it

I want to be able to say “ik the person from discord whos now a TT prof!!!”

[last oxide]

Ive noticed lack of exercise this year made a big difference

[atomic hornet]

We spoke!!

[velvet dagger]

Yeah my health has gotten bad. If I lose a bunch of weight I could be probably be a powerhouse lol

The way one of my friends put it, I got into UW with sleep apnea

[sly thistle]

Idgi

[velvet dagger]

Imagine if I didn't have that lol

[sly thistle]

I don’t get it

[last oxide]

dami jacking off in discussion arc

[velvet dagger]

I mean most of it was humor but

[atomic hornet]

Exercise then

[velvet dagger]

I am being somewhat not ironic that I'm very much good enough to pull off academia. A lot is luck so I might not

[atomic hornet]

Its hard tho

[last oxide]

its all funa nd giggles until it isnt

[atomic hornet]

Good for your brain doe

[velvet dagger]

But I can. And if my motivation doesn't come back I should be ready to hit private sector hard

[rancid meadow]

academia is a sham dami I think you should go work for a hedge fund

[bronze pelican]

FUCK hedge funds

[forest jackal]

lol

[atomic hornet]

Whats so bad ab them

[last oxide]

unf excessive exercise also fucks up attention
so assuming one wants to optimize some shit 1 hour a day of seems around the right amount
with mixed stimuli throughout the week

[rancid meadow]

do phd students ever worry about disappointing their advisors with their job choices after graduation?

like on the "current position" bit of profs websites you see some dude is just a software engineer at google

[atomic hornet]

Only if youre at an elite school

[rancid meadow]

and the other people are tenure track at yale or whatever

[forest jackal]

phd students have worried about every conceivable thing.

[atomic hornet]

You can say like id prob be an assistant prof if you were more famous ffs

[forest jackal]

^

[rancid meadow]

[velvet dagger]

I mean I'd probably work at a trading company if I didn't do academia lol

[dense belfry]

PhD student correlates with anxiety disorders

[last oxide]

trading

[velvet dagger]

But yeah I have been somewhat concerned about, oh damn am I letting my advisor down by not pulling through in academia

[rancid meadow]

does that mean that since I don't have anxiety disorder I won't be a phd student? Or that I'll develop anxiety disorders by doing a phd?

[velvet dagger]

Knowing him I don't think he'd accident be upset but obviously it's like

[rancid meadow]

[dense belfry]

It means that correlation does not imply causation

[velvet dagger]

Damn you know wanna be an early success

[atomic hornet]

Idk i have an anxiety disorder does that mean ill get a phd

[dense belfry]

[velvet dagger]

Since he's a quality advisor and a rising star mathematically

[last oxide]

does it "mean" that tho

[dense belfry]

That's the wrong direction of the implication even if correlation did imply causation

Smh

[rancid meadow]

do you have a young advsior dami?

[velvet dagger]

36 years old

[atomic hornet]

Laszlo babai?

[last oxide]

how can you draw that from that

[rancid meadow]

zoomer

[atomic hornet]

Hes a rising star

[bronze pelican]

You should now base your career choices around the opinions of others

[last oxide]

you should have a based career choice

[velvet dagger]

Well no lol I want academia myself

[atomic hornet]

Does that mean youll get an anxiety?

[velvet dagger]

It's more like

If I don't end up doing academia it's likely because I didn't do a good enough job in grad school to land a good position

Since if I do land one I'd be inclined to go for it

[rancid meadow]

or maybe you realized it was all a sham

[velvet dagger]

That's a possibility

[atomic hornet]

U got to uwash sloth

[velvet dagger]

Wisconsin

[atomic hornet]

Uwash dees nuts😭😭😭

[velvet dagger]

Fail

[atomic hornet]

😭

[velvet dagger]

This is why Laci didn't take you

Jkjk

[atomic hornet]

Fail

I saw that

[deep mango]

End up on deez nuts.

[last oxide]

will had been taken*

[deep mango]

Will had been taken.

[rancid meadow]

did you know you can prove the infinite ramsey theorem with ultrafilters

you're welcome Ryc

[last oxide]

no, because infinites are a lie

paraphrasing john gabriel here

[deep mango]

[neat lintel]

why lool

[rancid meadow]

[bronze pelican]

Working for a hedge fund means your job is to manage rich people's money, with the express goal of making rich people richer 🤮

[neat lintel]

🤢

eat the rich

yes

😋

[rancid meadow]

working for a hedgefund means you are a net negative on society

but the money is really good

Working means you are a lattice

Remember, topologies are just glorified semi-lattices.

wow i've never read that whole thing

how insufferable

[limber thunder]

Munkres?

[torn willow]

See

Learning topology from Munkres is like learning Quantum Mechanics from NewScientist, Munkres is basically popsci for nerds.

[rancid meadow]

the topologies are semi-glorified lattices quote

[ember finch]

Is this another copypasta?

[rancid meadow]

its from the same message pretty much

Nikita is one of our best members

[neat lintel]

but can you get rich doing it though? lol who cares about them?

[neat lintel]

tbh society NEVER helped me, no one helped me

[rancid meadow]

yikes

[errant rock]

i love rich ppl

[limpid venture]

But they don't love you back

[errant rock]

yes they do

[fringe needle]

@chilly smelt i realized while going over the question in my head before sleep yesterday that i probably needed to take into account no real roots too necause 2xlnx+1=0 involves evaluating the lambert function at values less than -1/e but i think when i was doing teh question i got confused and thought of -1 as the boundary instead. 3xlnx+1=0 by contrast does have at least one real sol

[chilly smelt]

Yeah , you can maybe show it by computing derivatives of xe^x

[fringe needle]

You can just show it from the graph of xe^x we did before. Thinking about with a fresh mind I realized it was actually hella easy

[thorn brook]

I'm still waiting

[neat lintel]

anyone ever tried Oscar Levin's Discrete Book?

[rapid holly]

Given a set of points S and a probability density function P how can I find the probability that the points in S were chose using P?

If someone could give me a term to google I’d appreciate that!

[sharp mulch]

Statistical inference

[rapid holly]

Thank you, so am I understanding right that P would be a statistical hypothesis? And a statistical hypothesis test would be used to find the probability I’m looking for ?

[sharp mulch]

Yes

[neat lintel]

[modest rune]

its a copypasta

ignore it

[narrow rock]

I’m in an airport

Haven’t seen so many people in a year lol

[rancid meadow]

i went downtown toronto on saturday

it was horrifying

so many people

where you flying

[narrow rock]

Chicago

[sharp mulch]

~aviation~

LAX to Chicago?

[narrow rock]

Yup

[sharp mulch]

Popular route

[narrow rock]

Not just at the gate tho

There are a ton of people

everywhere

[sharp mulch]

Southwest, United, American all have hubs at both LAX and in Chicago

But yes lots of aviation going on

Pent up demand

[narrow rock]

aviation

[cold needle]

how my coding is going rn

i need to get good

[nimble shuttle]

this is the proper way to use a debugger

[sharp mulch]

[viscid pecan]

Programmers intuition isn’t quite exactly like mathematicians intuition unfortunately

Programmers think more in terms of binary logic and systems components and not so much conceptual abstraction

[broken scaffold]

what about mathematician programmers

[bronze pelican]

No.

[rancid meadow]

programmers dont do mcuh thinking

[errant kiln]

Avoiding +1 errors requires a lot of thinking, actually

[broken scaffold]

Ok they are on to something

[steep laurel]

[vivid halo]

what do you call a 2.718m long eel?
an eel

[nimble shuttle]

I wouldn't call it that

I would call it a 3.14-thon

[sharp mulch]

I would call it a snake

[deep mango]

🐍

[sharp mulch]

Remember, not all snakes are pythons

[deep mango]

Yes. Only the 3.14m long ones.

[muted gorge]

what do category theorists call a coconut

a nut

[deep mango]

nut water

[broken scaffold]

I'm officially a hyperreal boi now

[vagrant kestrel]

you sure, real?

[broken scaffold]

bro I'm hyperly sure bro

fuck standard calculus al my homies hate standard calculus.

hyperreal validates that one time I tried to say dxdx was "probably basically zero, like, small enough to just... remove from this quantity"

[hearty turtle]

Israel broke the ceasefire and bombed Gaza again

[rancid meadow]

we heard you the first time

[hearty turtle]

I thought no one saw

My bad

[rancid meadow]

It's okay

[hearty turtle]

Yeah

From ethnic cleansing and illegal occupation

Currently, there are 400,000 Illegal settlers stealing homes

https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8

[broken scaffold]

this shit is the shit

Consider the continued fraction approximation a_n of π. Now let the index n be an infinite hypernatural number. By the transfer principle, the natural extension of the Dirichlet function takes the value 1 at a_n. Note that the hyperrational point a_n is infinitely close to π.

[deep mango]

[broken scaffold]

oh god please don't spread that convo here

[vagrant kestrel]

dead channel

[deep mango]

we're bringing back this channel.

anyone have any controversial thoughts on melons?

i think canteloupes and honeydew are both awful

[broken scaffold]

melons are just permutated lemons

[rancid meadow]

wtf ryc

[deep mango]

no

i don't know what that means ultra

[broken scaffold]

cucumber with sugar?

[deep mango]

[broken scaffold]

[deep mango]

i really do not like that

[broken scaffold]

is it like

an accurate watermelon taste?

[neat lintel]

Watermelon does not deserve to be as popular as it is

Watermelon is basically water

[rancid meadow]

Watermelon is very hit or miss

[deep mango]

yes

some watermelons are bad

but good watermelons

are the best kind of melon

[neat lintel]

Even watermelon itself admitted it, it is named "water" melon after all

[rancid meadow]

I was thinking the same thing Ultra

so do you guys think they grow watermelons in Palestine

[broken scaffold]

I might buy a cucumber

[rancid meadow]

i havent had a cucumber rin a while

I think they are top tier though

[sharp mulch]

Mango is good

Cucumbers are good as well

[broken scaffold]

I've had too many unfresh cucumbers

[rancid meadow]

cucumber are one of the most consistently good fruit

ive never had an unfresh cucumber

[sharp mulch]

Cucumbers are a vegetable

[rancid meadow]

no they arent

[broken scaffold]

what

[rancid meadow]

,w cucumber

[fathom swallow]

Results provided by WolframAlpha

Click here to refine your query online
Upgrade to WolframAlpha Pro!

Requested by jesse#3659

[rancid meadow]

maybe they are id

[broken scaffold]

cucumber isa type of squash

[deep mango]

cucumbers are fine

but they're always

or i guess i should say, they're NEVER great

[rancid meadow]

cucumbers are fruit

ur welcome

[deep mango]

not on their own, not in things...

i would never willingly add a cucumber to something. i just wouldn't complain if it was already there.

unless it's a pickle of course.

[broken scaffold]

tbh. I didn't want to say this but I'm bolstered by RYC's upstanding.
I have been unsatisfied with cucumbers.

[rancid meadow]

cucumber is a fantastic addition to most things

[devout nacelle]

Cucumber is standalone most of the times. Very refreshing, unless it turns out to be bitter.

[rancid meadow]

just for the texture

[neat lintel]

Yeah, I think cucumber is good

[rancid meadow]

you dont like crunch ryc?

[sharp mulch]

Cold noodles are wonderful during the summer

[deep mango]

cucumber texture is a very very mediocre, half-assed kind of crunch

[rancid meadow]

wrong

[deep mango]

i'll put potato chips on my sandwich thank you very much

[rancid meadow]

california just has mediocre cucumbers

i guess

[sharp mulch]

[broken scaffold]

asparagus 👌

[sharp mulch]

ryc is from the east coast

[rancid meadow]

asaparagus is the best vegetable

[deep mango]

i have lived in california for 3 out of my 22 years

asparagus is great, but let's not get crazy.

[broken scaffold]

but can you surf?

[rancid meadow]

its the best one Ryc

[deep mango]

after all, brussels sprouts exist.

[broken scaffold]

ok, he has a point

[rancid meadow]

brussel sprouts are good but my oven doesnt work

[atomic hornet]

Eggplant

[deep mango]

that's not their fault

[rancid meadow]

eggplant is god awful

[deep mango]

eggplant 🤢

[broken scaffold]

Eggplant is shit.

[atomic hornet]

Fuck u

[broken scaffold]

Literally no substance

[deep mango]

ok it's actually quite good if done right

[rancid meadow]

no its not

unless its like

deep fried

[deep mango]

eggplant parm is really good

[rancid meadow]

but does that evenc ount

[broken scaffold]

just eat whatever you prepared it with

[deep mango]

thank you

[atomic hornet]

Im italian for crying out loud

[broken scaffold]

whatever toni

[deep mango]

eggplant any other way is basically trash

[neat lintel]

If you think a vegetable is good only if prepared a certain way, then you don't actually believe that vegetable is good

[atomic hornet]

I can eat eggplant however

[deep mango]

most squashs are bad tbh

i like butternut squash soup but that's about it

[atomic hornet]

I like zucchini squash a lot

[broken scaffold]

stepehn hawking was the greatest 😔

[past cypress]

hi, can anyone help me with a question 🥺 👉 👈

[broken scaffold]

#848786850994585651

[atomic hornet]

No

[deep mango]

use #❓how-to-get-help

[neat lintel]

🖕 #❓how-to-get-help

[broken scaffold]

damn 8da

[atomic hornet]

Bell peppers r great

[deep mango]

now they're talking about religion in the other chat

[atomic hornet]

Onions

[broken scaffold]

bell peppers 👌

[deep mango]

bell peppers are good

roasted bell peppers

[atomic hornet]

I dont eat onions alone tho

But they complement everything

[neat lintel]

I wanted to use kanna_middle_finger but I couldn't because my nitro ran out

[broken scaffold]

I actually prefer to eat onions without anyone else around

[deep mango]

onions are good either way

[past cypress]

why be rude, its not like i asked it here

[atomic hornet]

I lold

[neat lintel]

I like to sear onions by themselves and just eat them

[deep mango]

pleb filter time

TOMATOS

[broken scaffold]

I don't want anyone to see me when I cry

Tomatos 👌

[deep mango]

i love a nice, thick slice of tomato

[broken scaffold]

Dude
That can't compete with straight up eating the tomato

no cutting it

[atomic hornet]

Tomato is fruit

[broken scaffold]

correct

[atomic hornet]

U gabbagool

No

[deep mango]

no

[broken scaffold]

It is a tad buttery yes

[atomic hornet]

Taste a lil sweet doe

[deep mango]

it tastes sort of pumpkinny

and sweet potatoy

it's like a mix

[broken scaffold]

yes

[torn willow]

https://youtu.be/j4Ph02gzqmY

[broken scaffold]

Plantain 👌

[deep mango]

this is such a good video

[atomic hornet]

Yea

[deep mango]

yes

[broken scaffold]

different vibe

more fatty, yes

[atomic hornet]

Butternut squash has no butterlike qualities

[broken scaffold]

👀 don't take that out of context

[agile wedge]

so vegetables

[atomic hornet]

Spinach is good

Good for u

After i eat it i get huge muscles in my arms

[vast surge]

More like Veggietales predicts 2010 internet humour, and even that's a bit of a stretch

[broken scaffold]

weed eater

[atomic hornet]

Yea like iceberg lettuce

No ice

I like kiwi

[broken scaffold]

burns my mouth but that's just how it be

eat with skin on

[sharp mulch]

Memes go in #chill

[vast surge]

Whoops my bad

[agile sundial]

Wth is going on with twitter

[burnt dune]

xd

[hearty turtle]

There was literally a march that thousands attended because of the new Pm for Israel. The new prime minister of Israel has declared that all Israeli soldiers will march throughout the streets of Palestine to show their "power". There were illegally on Palestinian land shouting "Death to Arabs" and blocked off Palestinians

[static loom]

that's fucked up

[hearty turtle]

The whole war is. Israel made 5 million Palestinian refuges.

[upper patrol]

benjamin's no longer pm?

[blazing pawn]

the new pm is like

arguably worse, if less directly corrupt

so dont get excited

[vast surge]

No, Netanyahu's out. I had my hopes up for a minute, before I realized that Israeli politics is so fucking bonkers that he's actually the "good compromise option".

[limpid venture]

My Israeli friend explained to me how it changes nothing

Status quo will remain as it is

Though it's good for all the pending legislative work

[vast surge]

Naftali Bennett looks like an ethno-nationalist nutjob.

Just reading over some of his positions

[limpid venture]

He explained me that even though the new PM isn't really better, it's just that the Israeli parliament system limits alot of his actions
The coalition is made of far to centre to left leaning parties

So he can't afford to upset anyone of them since the balance is very delicate

[vast surge]

Yeah, there's like 19 parties in the Knesset. Nothing in Israeli politics makes much sense.

Also, why the hell are Meretz and Ra'am part of Bennett's alliance?

[limpid venture]

That's funny causr ra'am is right wing arab party

That's the reason why the balance is so delicate

My friend doesn't expect the coalition to last 2 years

[vast surge]

Yeah, Ra'am is a right-wing arab party, and Bennett is a Jewish ethno-nationalist who opposes the idea of a Palestinian state.

This coalition shouldn't even exist much less last 2 years

And Meretz is like the most left-wing party there is in Israel

[limpid venture]

Says it's highly unlikely given all the different stances of different parties but it's politics
Who knows

[modest rune]

Maybe the strategy is like

if you can push someone you don't really like just over the border of being in power

then you have also the ability to remove them?

[vast surge]

Wait nevermind I forgot that Maki exists.

[modest rune]

so you have more control

esp. if the person in charge is probably guaranteed to not match your positions either way

[vast surge]

I mean, I honestly don't know

[edgy atlas]

Uh question, anyone here familiar with order theory? Anyone know a good place to start self study? Also one of the topics that I don't know but i should know for grad school...

[deep mango]

should you really know order theory for grad school?

[sharp mulch]

Is this a thing?

Oh no

Is this lattices

[atomic hornet]

why should you know order theory? Where does that come up?

[last oxide]

ordinal memers

[atomic hornet]

Only things I see are well-quasi orderings

[edgy atlas]

Abstract interpretation of computer prograns

[sharp mulch]

[edgy atlas]

It's one of the two topics I'm focusing on in my grad studies lmao

[sharp mulch]

Oh lol

[atomic hornet]

interesting

im not sure but i like the chapter on WQO in diestel but its only one chapter

[deep mango]

i see

[edgy atlas]

WQO? Cool

[atomic hornet]

well quasi orderings

[edgy atlas]

I'll look it up

[atomic hornet]

comes up in graph theory a lot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson–Seymour_theorem

[last oxide]

under the what

[atomic hornet]

minor relation loll

i love minors

GRAPH minors

[last oxide]

I see

[sharp mulch]

[edgy atlas]

What is the point of WQO... Doesn't seem so useful to just have a single pair that's ordered unless I'm misinterpreting

[spring crypt]

hello cuties (don't feel like interrupting the ongoing chat on #discussion lol)

Got an exam grade back I'm very happy about it

[sharp mulch]

[deep mango]

[spring crypt]

17/20 which I mean I could translate into percentages but also how good 85% depends on the place and all that

the tldr is 10 is the passing grade, 10-13 is a bit bad, 14-16 is decent, 17-18 is very nice, 19-20 is God tier

as in it's very hard to get the higher grades

[deep mango]

that makes sense

[spring crypt]

given it's a subject I wasn't very confident in and was thinking to myself "15 would be good", 17 is awesome!

[spring crypt]

in fact for this subject in particular, and many others in my dept, if you get 18+ on the exam you have to do another evaluation to prove you "deserve" the grade

otoh you can have 18.5 on the exam and end up with 20 if you ace the complementary evaluation because yeah profs are cool like that

[edgy atlas]

Are you french? Hehe

[spring crypt]

spits on the ground

jk

I'm Portuguese

I don't find the french the most lovely people but I don't hate them 😛

so yeah I really mean it was a joke xD

[edgy atlas]

Ah i see. I know France grades out of 20.. 17/20 french grade is WAYY better than 85% murica grade

[spring crypt]

yeah I'd say it should be similar in Portugal but tbh I'm not that sure

all I know is in Italy they're up to 30 and like a 26 is not good for most people

here that's a 17 and it's very decent

and in the UK, at least where one of my profs studied many years back, 60% was God tier on one of her classes, all the rest got 40% or less lmao

[edgy atlas]

hmm interesting. In America if 60% is god tier then they usually curve it. My physics class 60% was average, so it got curved to 75% for 60, 85% for 1 standard deviation from the mean and 95% for 2 standard deviations

Coz 75 = C = mediocre, 85 = B = decent, 95 = A = excellent

[deep mango]

they slide it up so that it's the same like that, usually

[spring crypt]

yeah here the A B C things that go on the sheet if you request the international version aren't in direct correspondence with the grades

they make percentiles based on the past 3 years of the subject

and then do it

[deep mango]

but i rarely had any class where the average on an exam was above, say, 65

[spring crypt]

so like A is top 10% or something along those lines

I'm not really sure, never looked into it

[deep mango]

yeah

usually something like 1.3 - 1.5 standard deviations above the mean, which is about 10%

[atomic hornet]

Set of all graphs

[sharp mulch]

ryc

I have some concerns about Rahul's linear program

I will be redoing it

[sharp mulch]

ryc I lied it's fine

[cold needle]

How dare you ange.

[sharp mulch]

All I do is numerics and lie

[deep mango]

That's ok.

You have no reason not to be skeptical

I am skeptical of all of you (demmel, holtz, and grace included)

In fact, I'm skeptical of the field as a whole.

[sharp mulch]

[edgy atlas]

Yes order theory is lattices. Tell it to me straight doc... Am i screwed?

[sharp mulch]

I've never understood lattices

There's someone called Nikita who rambles about lattices sometimes in #point-set-topology

And my analysis professor proved that L^p and L^q were dual using Banach lattices

We spent like two weeks on these things

And everyone was lost the entire time

[rancid meadow]

jcob go into #point-set-topology and say that you think there should be a better definition for a topology

the rest will follow

[edgy atlas]

Hmm better definition for topology as in better foundations or as in the word topology is overloaded @rancid meadow ?

[rancid meadow]

it genuinely does not matter

[sharp mulch]

Remember, a topology is a glorified semi-lattice

[rancid meadow]

it's sort of like a bat signal

[broken scaffold]

is logic even flashy

[rancid meadow]

what does flashy mean

do you mean in the sense of like nice pictures that illustrate ideas?

not really

if they do exist they require a lot of understanding

[broken scaffold]

something to make undergrads worship it

[rancid meadow]

is this the reason people say logics form lattices

or I guess I would suppose its connected thru Stone spaces and boolean algebras or smth

[edgy atlas]

I was enjoying this i think i learned something

I'm confused tho is the logic itself (so like just classical logic, no sets right) a "lattice" or did i misunderstand there

sorry 😕 i won't do that again

[wild igloo]

have any of u guys had 48h math midterms before? The longest test I've ever had in school up to now has been 3h lol, but I've got a 48h topology midterm in a few days

anyone have any tips for managing multi-day tests?

[rancid meadow]

I've had week long finals

will you have access to every question?

[wild igloo]

yea

[rancid meadow]

or is it like answer a question before you see the next one

[wild igloo]

I get them all at the start

[rancid meadow]

just treat it like a normal midterm probably, do the easy ones quickly and take your time w/ the hard ones

pace yourself and work when you feel able to work

idk about you but i have periods of hyperfocus and periods of none and so I would try to work on it during my productive times and put it away when I'm not being productive

or you can just let it consume you and spend 18hrs a day on it for 2 days in a row

¯_(ツ)_/¯

oh and don't procrastinate lol

[wild igloo]

I appreciate the advice tysm

[limber thunder]

just take your time, I think that's more or less the point given the current context

my grad analysis midterms and exam are 36h

I like to do the easy problems quickly and then use the rest of the time to think through the other ones, taking breaks frequently to go on with the rest of my life

sleep as normally, check the last few details and then turn it

[lean glacier]

i wonder if any1 else saw a certain person ping on #help-9

[neon violet]

What is the font that you use?

[crystal stream]

multi day exams?

that sounds disgusting but probably not as bad as I think they are

[atomic hornet]

Its just you have multiple days to do an exam

Pretty common for upper level math in the US

[neat lintel]

whats a multiday exam

[broken scaffold]

exam but it's a homework assignment with an early due date and you probably can't talkto people about it

[modest rune]

One more piece of advice: spend the first day figuring out how long you think the hard problems will take you and make sure you leave enough time for them / work enough every day to get them all done in time

the weird thing about an exam where you can take breaks is you have to figure out yourself how much time to dedicate per day

[toxic schooner]

48h test!? how is that done?

[naive stirrup]

yes i have, listen to music and feel relaxed when doing it, taking naps help lol

at least what i did

good thing about them is its way less stressful and you can actually give well thought out answer but tbh will be cheating

for undergrad courses at least

[toxic schooner]

but like, how long are these tests?

and where do u give them?

in an exam hall? or wherever u feel like?

[naive stirrup]

mine were just given to me in online format and we had 48 hrs to submit it

[toxic schooner]

Ooo

ok i c

and was the test particularly longer? or harder?

[naive stirrup]

some exams were way harder than if they were irl, but my analysis one is like reasonable difficulty

but our avg was like 80 unlike in class when its like 50, since we got way more time to think about it

[toxic schooner]

i c

[naive stirrup]

in this quarter i took a dynamics course, the exam was "designed for 3 hrs" but we got 24 hrs. I ended up using 12 hr and using like 31 pages...

[toxic schooner]

[naive stirrup]

some profs just dont know about time

[toxic schooner]

31? damn

[toxic schooner]

[vagrant kestrel]

48 hour tests are weird, how do you know when to stop?

[sharp mulch]

When you're finished...

[modest rune]

I had a week long final 48hrs isnt weird

you just work until you are satisfied

[toxic schooner]

[toxic schooner]

[azure kettle]

I've had multiple day long take home tests

it's not too weird

[deep mango]

i've had 2 week long take homes which each took the whole week

[azure kettle]

and ya, just stop when you're done lol

[deep mango]

i think i've had a few others that didn't take so long

[azure kettle]

never had a week long one

[toxic schooner]

the longest test i have given was ntse, which was 4 hours long

[azure kettle]

I have had some 3 day ones I think

[deep mango]

the first week long one, our prof said should take a few hours

and i worked on it for like 8 hours a day for the whole week

and averaged about a problem cracked per day

so bad

(other people felt similarly about it)

the questions were super interesting though

[toxic schooner]

what was the paper of?

[modest rune]

thats ridiculously bad test writing lmfao

[azure kettle]

I remember a 1 hour test we were given, and literally 0 people finished it, class avg was like 50

and the prof went like "hmm, it only took me 30 min to do, shouldnt've been so bad for you guys"

[modest rune]

lmao

[azure kettle]

I really malded

[sleek wing]

wtf lol

[vagrant kestrel]

I remember having that said to me

[modest rune]

you really cant time a test if you know how to solve the problems going in

and profs that think they can are usually so bad at it lol

[vagrant kestrel]

I guess 50-minute exams are worse because then it's just a speed test and 30+ point curves

[sleek wing]

^

time pressure in exams shouldn't be a thing just saying

[naive stirrup]

Yea and u have to actually memorize

[sleek wing]

yeah bookwork questions are bad as well

regurgitating definitions does not prove that you've learnt anything

[modest rune]

i mean

my favorite prof

wrote exams that should be done in half the time if you studied well

that worked really well

gave everyone time to try every problem

and let people who knew what they were doing leave early

[broken scaffold]

don't learn anything so you can't regurgitate anyting

[deep mango]

it was differentiable manifolds

[toxic schooner]

aah, so something i wont get right now

[deep mango]

tbf it was a grad class, there was no obligation to write a great test

everyone was gonna get a fine grade anyway

[modest rune]

bad attitide lol

attitude

like

people have other classes

you cant consume an entire week with your exam

not to mention like

lives and sleep

and food

[deep mango]

well i can

or

i could that semester

[modest rune]

i mena

congrats

doesnt change the fact that its bad exam writing

[vagrant kestrel]

when RYC wrecks your curve because he spent 40 hours on the test

[deep mango]

precisely

plur gets it

[broken scaffold]

being consumed is the best tho

[deep mango]

i think the intent was for people to just do what they found interesting and not worry about getting it all done

i think he said something along those lines

it was very vague

[modest rune]

reading papers written before conventions and standard notions were ubiquitous is so funny

like

[broken scaffold]

right before RYC enteres
"Ok, on the exam, do any 2 of the problems for full credit"

[modest rune]

this topology paper feels the need to define suspensions!

what the fuck

who is reading topology papers without knowing what a suspension is lol

[deep mango]

[modest rune]

i will never do this my papers will be sink or swim to read so ppl have to invite me to explain them

🧠

[devout nacelle]

[deep mango]

that's perfect

then they'll have to give you food

at all kinds of posh events

[meager sonnet]

Would anyone really describe maths conferences and seminars as posh?

[toxic schooner]

[deep mango]

depending on the department and the catering, math tea time can be posh

[toxic schooner]

i would

lol

[meager sonnet]

I mean

IDK if I'd count it as posh still

[deep mango]

[devout nacelle]

The last math seminar my uni organised was about 2 years ago, something about fixed point theory

[deep mango]

maybe i have lower standards for poshness

[meager sonnet]

At the end of the day it's all still gonna be maths department budgets and stuff

[bronze pelican]

They can try but really they're jank

[meager sonnet]

Yeah I might be slightly spoiled in that regard

It can definitely be posh in comparison to like, normal environments though

[deep mango]

they're not always jank

at berkeley they used to get meatballs

[bronze pelican]

Ah yes, food makes everyone happy

[deep mango]

little meatballs which you stabbed with fancy small skewers

[modest rune]

posh = meatballs

[sharp mulch]

ryc

[modest rune]

jesus

what have we come to

[sharp mulch]

Elango does not give a parallel FFT bound

[deep mango]

yes

[modest rune]

if there isn’t charcuterie its not posh

[deep mango]

ok ange

[meager sonnet]

Kebabs = posh

[deep mango]

there is charcuterie too

[bronze pelican]

Lol

[modest rune]

why did u start with meatballs then

[sharp mulch]

I think I'm just going to assume that the constant is the same