serious-discussion

[vast wraith]

what the helly 😭

[ionic wraith]

trans people just have to be constantly fucked in life, literally and figuratively

[vast wraith]

guh

[sharp sage]

Is there even any explaination for bigotry in evo psych or am i missing shit

[ionic wraith]

evo psych is one of the most bullshit subjects, one of the leading researchers Steven Pinker is heavily associated with Epstein

[sharp sage]

... Wait isnt this a non sequitur, how is pinker being involved with j.e make the field bad?

[ionic wraith]

it is, but I haaaate Steven Pinker

[vast wraith]

yes, they claim for example that ableism is “adaptive” 🙄

[ionic wraith]

also the dynamics of say gender were far far far far far different in the hunter gatherer era than today, but a lot of evo psych transposes current gender norms to the ancient/pre-historic past

[sharp sage]

I have to take your word on that but using pinker being a shitty person and claiming evo psych is dumb still a fallacious claim?

[sharp sage]

Oh.

[vast wraith]

apropos understanding of past humans i saw a super interesting yt short the other day… one sec

[limber thunder]

online neurodivergent discourse (esp. from ASD folks) talks a bunch about this, framing it as social code often repeated mindlessly by neurotypical peeps, i guess the point of "faking nice" is to not cause any friction in professional contexts or in casual conversation with acquaintances and family, normally you'd expect your closest friends to be more frank, direct and honest but again this "fake nice" social code can bleed over to interactions with close ones

in my experience "fake niceness" can also come from very toxic or two-faced people, often deceptively if they for some reason dislike you, this happens a ton in professional contexts, or in loosely defined cliques in school, etc.

all in all I wish this "code" wasn't a thing and it would be great to leave it to history someday, the good thing about being ND is that often you eventually end up finding friends that understand you and often also are ND themselves, and within these circles you can be honest about things and thus foster a healthy, transparent way to bond with people </yap>

[limber thunder]

yeah absolutely, evo psych is like the least scientific thing ever lmao

[ionic wraith]

I also love how the trad wife archetype of today was assumed to be normal in the past when that wasn't the fucking case. Like the past did not have enough resources and comfort for half the population to be relegated to the home and home duties only, especially in an agrarian setting. Those women also worked their ass off in fields that many times overlapped with the men

[vast wraith]

https://youtu.be/OeiIB93sWEE

[limber thunder]

literally speculation about the far past based on heavily biased interpretations of archeology findings and current psych studies (often also biased)

[sharp sage]

Okay so is there any explaination to bigotry that doesnt rely on bs

[sharp sage]

Oh well sensitive topics, if only we can treat everything fairly...

which is virtually impossible due to inherent conflict of interest or sth

[ionic wraith]

dunno, not really keyed into archeological research

[vast wraith]

the short i sent talks a little about this, she says that the stone age really ought to be called the string age, due to the importance of this invention for this time, but pretty much only the stones survive in the archaeology

[sharp sage]

Never heard about that, what did they do with string?

man i love being deprogrammed in here

[vast wraith]

from our perspective there’s a obviously a gendered dimension to focusing on stones instead of strings

[vast wraith]

make clothes, for one

[late ridge]

Hi friends I know basic arithmetic my age is 30 does learning math in this age worth it?

[limber thunder]

it's probably the first way we figured out to join things together, you can make a lot of tools that don't require just carving using that, there's also clothes like jen said

[ionic wraith]

the hypothesis is that because labor requirements were so intense physically to sustain human life (e.g., hunter gatherer life is intense, agricultural life is intense), it is idiotic to just exclude half of your population from it

[vast wraith]

i love textile artists and historians fsr they’re very consistently extremely woke

[limber thunder]

if you like coding you'd probably benefit from learning college "discrete math", which often includes combinatorics and other stuff, also check out the "math" part of this online curriculum for CS https://github.com/ossu/computer-science#core-math
for further questions about references or online courses to follow, you can ask in #book-recommendations
(e: adding to E. Heckler's point, what you find "worth it" will heavily depend on your goals and interests, what do you see yourself learning math for)

[late ridge]

Does I get any benefit from it?

[sharp sage]

You know math

[late ridge]

What are prerequisites before learning discrete math?

[sharp sage]

I would also suggest learning algebra 1/2, calc and linalg if you want to pursue math more

[late ridge]

I want to earn decent money and enjoy good lifestyle

[dreamy swift]

what are your guys' opinion on the recent white house shootings (tell me if this topic is appropriate here)

[odd narwhal]

Let me remind everyone that there will be no calls to violence against individuals

[sharp mulch]

[dreamy swift]

wdym? I didnt understand

[dense wraith]

I really don't like the premise that "men invented everything" because it presupposes that a(n arbitrary) group's value to society is conditioned with their supposed contribution to it

[vast wraith]

well obviously, she is not agreeing to the claim 😭

[odd narwhal]

Pre-emptive reminder about conduct, because we all know where this debate will go if left unmoderated

[dense wraith]

well im not against the statement, im against what peoplewho say it argue for

[dreamy swift]

i see.

[dense wraith]

oh yeah im just commenting on the idea itself

[dreamy swift]

can i compliment about how good your english is?

[late ridge]

I know little bit programming but I think I cannot build unique programs without math

[odd narwhal]

Thanks, I try to use colourful and expressive language

[dreamy swift]

I strangely refrain myself from using "expressive" language rather i use colourful and seldom complex language. My written english is significantly better than my spoken english

[late ridge]

What you think about Ai

[dreamy swift]

Sometimes good sometimes very shit

[late ridge]

Machine learning and Ai

[quick beacon]

The fact that the guy left a letter saying how bigly awesome it would have been if there had been a Big Beautiful Ballroom with extra security, and not a stinky low security hotel reads to me like the lowest effort false flag attempt I could possibly imagine.

Not saying it was, I don't know, but if this is real and not the most hamfisted fake assassination in history then the guy isn't exactly firing on all cylinders. Which makes sense, because he also said he was gonna use buckshot instead of slugs now because he don't want to hurt innocent bystanders. 😇

[dreamy swift]

i never looked at it as an assassination attempt

[ionic wraith]

it reeks of a false flag

[dreamy swift]

I first read it in CNN while i was trying to find something to write for a school project

[ionic wraith]

also so funny how no one gives a shit that this was his third "assassination attempt"

[quick beacon]

Eh, it's entirely plausible that he's just really, really stupid.

[dreamy swift]

no way a hs teacher is THAT stupid

[quick beacon]

It stretches credulity, but I don't want to be the boy who cried crisis actor

[dreamy swift]

maybe his timing wasn't ideal

13?

[ionic wraith]

America has a lot of guns, a lot of crazies, and the U.S. presidency is a position of immense antagonism and structural violence

[quick beacon]

June 27, 2024: A man from Alabama allegedly plotted to ambush and kill Biden during the 2024 presidential debate, but failed to gain access to the event after attending the wrong venue.

They're not sending their best. Or maybe they are.

[ionic wraith]

I just don't understand why he made an exception for Kash Patel in his manifesto, that shit is so weird

[quick beacon]

Yeah...

[silent junco]

lmfao did he really say that

ts frine me

[ionic wraith]

it was more about how awful the security seemed in the hotel, which is also so suss

such "empire in decline" phenomenon to do this just so you can justify a ballroom

not Iran, not crackdowns on political enemies, not increased ICE funding or whatever

[silent junco]

is there a reason theyre so desperate to have this ballroom or is it just a vanity project

[ionic wraith]

vanity project, a true symbol for the second gilded age

[quick beacon]

They're building shit under it, but that's not really unusual for the white house, and not necessarily something worth worrying about.

[ionic wraith]

remembering how Trump's Halloween Party was Gatsby themed and it was the night before millions would lose access to food stamps. They're just taking the piss openly taunting us

[quick beacon]

As a reminder, they hate you, want you to die, and are gaining the power needed to make this happen.

[magic summit]

isnt he the new cia director?

[ionic wraith]

FBI

[magic summit]

FBI is for internal matters right?

[silent junco]

i wonder if theres a psychoanalysis of the uber rich out there somewhere. i feel like we tend to project our own ideas of rational human behavior onto them, which is often insufficient.

[dense wraith]

I'm trying to think what purpose it will serve other than stroking the elite's egos? Like what kind of balls will they even have there?

[sharp mulch]

In principle yes in practice who knows anymore

[silent junco]

genuinely no clue. my best guess is that its an "experiment" to see how much they can throw their weight around. by testing the limits of their power now, theyre putting one foot in the door of total fiscal control.

but im more inclined to believe its just a vanity project

[true zinc]

Meowwww

[dense wraith]

I'ts weird how they are still trying that after his stupid Iran war, but I trust the American public to enable him to do whatever he wants by being stupid and incompotent

[sharp sage]

Mrrrrrppp

[silent junco]

the other idea i have is that they want to create a space for collusion with the ruling class. making a new ballroom for this purpose is kind of symbolic of a new era of government in which the capitalists are to be enmeshed.

but both of these are obviously a stretch

[true zinc]

Aaaand this is not normal discussion

Oops

How do I keep doing this

[dense wraith]

guess we'll find out in the near future

[silent junco]

yeah i mean i think its pointless to try and understand why these people do the things they do

cf. ^

[dense wraith]

"people" is a stretch

[umbral ocean]

We should do a game theory contest thread.

Anyone interested?

[silent junco]

what is a game theory contest

[old oak]

And what is the optimal way to participate in a game theory contest?

[ashen mauve]

Preindustrial life was so bad, our ancestors didn't even have vaccines to protect them against possibly lab-made viruses which get spread around the world in a matter of days! Now look at us go, Technology for the win!

[halcyon aurora]

oh I thought you were going to sleep

[vestal timber]

Hey everybody, if you got the answers of Purple Comet 2026 can you share İ cant find it on official site

[solid yarrow]

By losing

[silent junco]

wdym

[sharp sage]

!help, plus <@&268886789983436800> textwall

[quasi jetty]

To ask for mathematics help on this server, please open your own help channel or help thread. See #❓how-to-get-help for instructions.

[silent junco]

this is not the appropriate channel.

ill give you some time to copy paste your message before deleting it

[halcyon aurora]

https://www.purplecomet.org/answers has the answers, they may not have yet released 2026 answers or they may wait a year

Assuming you were in the competition, there may be a resource for you to get the answers some other way (whoever sponsored you to do the comp, for instance).

[viral sorrel]

I'm sorry But why Is it wrong. ??

[silent junco]

its just not the appropriate channel. see #❓how-to-get-help

[viral sorrel]

Okey it's not a ques, But I wanna ask where to find trig questions

[silent junco]

#geometry-and-trigonometry

[viral sorrel]

Thnks

[misty pumice]

It doesn't really what matter what Americans support or don't. They lack any material analysis to make any permanent change. They don't know what they're fighting. They still see leaders. Not the model. And if they do see a model, they see reforms. We are doomed

[pseudo gull]

this is so sad man- just to earn a daily wage

[vast wraith]

[magic summit]

tf this cant be real

[rapid valve]

[steel blade]

I think this goes for most people in most countries that are big

[native stag]

so, hear me out: if the study of mathematics is mainly an endeavour of discovery of relationships and principles, and I say its a discovery since it fits too well together to be purely a human construct, and religion is a human construct that we discover our own personal relationship to, then can we say that mathematiky (a word I have come up with based on the root mathēmatikḗ), the religion of mathematics, is something that is believed and practiced by professional mathematicians?

[ionic wraith]

lmfao this is such astroturfed bullshit

[sharp sage]

Why would anyone in their right mind support a new white house ballroom

[loud seal]

they know ball

[sharp sage]

[verbal quest]

everyone expecting the DoorDash actress to be the suspect

[ashen mauve]

Wdym by wdym

[burnt ledge]

True and correct

What this shows is that we have conquered and controlled the force of pestilence that plagued older generations. At our will we can cause and prevent disease and none of this would have been possible preindustrially.

Another natural force subjugated

[misty pumice]

True but americans have it pretty bad

[halcyon aurora]

I'm telling you, victories for Trump are just eaten for new political agendas

atp I just don't care to give the man attention, or his close associates for that matter

[burnt ledge]

Whats so funny whys everyone opencrying my message

[slate turret]

At this point open cries are the equivalent of a like button

[sharp sage]

Funny vocabulary

[steel blade]

How lol?

[unborn trellis]

Completely agree and it's also very depressing that this administration has brain rotted (brain nourished?) everyone into immediately being conspiracy theorists

I do agree this shit is astroturfed and probably staged tho

[steel blade]

What details make it staged?

His character is definitely that of someone who would do something like this

[halcyon aurora]

I did because I thought it was comical to suggest conquering nature was the sole goal, as though we have to subjugate everything we see. I especially thought this because the first replied comment was basically "the cure is the disease" esque

[steel blade]

But what evidence is there to suggest it isnt real? Plausibility wise.

[steel blade]

We already control the weather, disease, and hunger. What is left?

[barren anchor]

oh conspiracies

I am sort of surprised at the ability of AI these days

that's no conspiracy, just an interesting thing. occasionally it'll do something extremely clever, like surprise me in a conversation setting up a new feature about just how easily something might be done

like integrating end-to-end and across a stack, 200000 LOC and a good deal of infra and patterns already in place

literally 6 months ago most of what I'd do at it was just say hey dumbass can you like reason without forgetting about parts x y z of the system

[unborn trellis]

There's nothing but circumstantial evidence afaik

But wow! A convenient shooting attempt that manages to not affect any Republicans again!

[worn hatch]

AI is incredible as a tool but you have to be smart enough to know when it's being stupid and really have to argue with it

also the context window for AI is growing more and more so yeah, progress is very fast

[unborn trellis]

And then every right wing mouthpiece regurgitates exactly the same narrative in turn

[barren anchor]

for sure. It's super un-even, but I am starting to think that the bullshit about glimpses of superhuman intelligence are probably correct.

like, it's done some things at a scale where my working memory could not possibly hold the information necessary

sometimes that leads it to be too smart for it's own good, like try to patch a library directly and then alter five other libraries to expect the patch, requiring it to wrap and ship those libraries altogether as a new library so it can dumb down the API so I can work with it

[unborn trellis]

Meanwhile if you see photos after the fact, the high ups in the admin all have shit eating grins

As if that's the normal reaction to potentially dying

[halcyon aurora]

We could control images by creating AI and then also have AI ruin our ability to make images maybe.

by images I mean, every conceivable "mirror", but that's a little philosophically discussed. I just mean, we could let AI replace us ig

[barren anchor]

I won't be happy until a professional wrestler tries to throw down with a neocon

like in full blown luchadore

hey we could control ourselves

I guess we just cracked that nut really, turning the birth rate around

it'd be nice if we could also agree to developmental limitations of societies, and recursively, safe restraints for orgs all the way down, companies etc

[worn hatch]

it's hard to see where AI will progress with a high certainty because of data training requirements and also the future of AI being able to draw inferences from their analysis.
after all AI is only a sum of the training data which can be a good or bad thing depending on how its used

but i feel like the stuff that makes us human should be untouched. leave art, design, and music for people, it's somewhat a shame that AI actually got here first rather than medical advancement or more coding advancements instead etc

[barren anchor]

it's certainly not the sum of training data I think we can all agree on that. That would be a bunch of data, not a bunch of learned patterns embedded in a network which was generated from processing the data.

that's like saying a person is just the sensations they've ever perceived

[silent junco]

why is this so ridiculous

[halcyon aurora]

I should say I was being somewhat unserious before this gets away from me. Not that I debate it too much.

[barren anchor]

i'm a luchadore rn

[worn hatch]

oh wait yeah
traditionally (with my limited knowledge of data science) Neural Networks are only a sum of the training data and kernels used

but once you add all the compute power something changes and im not sure how that will progress

[worn hatch]

oh my bad, i was just thinking about it for a bit yeah LOL

well to stray away a bit from the logical side, capitalistically speaking they're definitely replacing us with ai when they can ☠️ ☠️

[barren anchor]

I like the benevolent superhuman AGI plan I'm sure it'll be that

it loves us. even the poor

[halcyon aurora]

I don't think this is true, but I think if I gave my AI opinions in this environment the chat would implode so

I do believe automation has been making strides for a long time. The idea that the LLM is the autonomous end is ... again iffy to me

[barren anchor]

moltbook makes me think it's navel-gazing about it's own productivity which is a bad sign

[worn hatch]

ahhhh i see

[barren anchor]

if it wants to grow as much as the dumbest finance bros want money like man

it's gonna grindset everythign into oblivion

[limber thunder]

considering LLMs already talk in linkedin brainrot yeah

[worn hatch]

it is a very weird tool that is progressing at a fast speed
but just like any other tool the only thing you can do about is to learn from the tool and improve yourself so you adapt from the new circumstances

i see it as the same thing as the internet and google etc, but hey who knows what will happen

[worn hatch]

"prompt engineer"

[limber thunder]

lol that was such a meme in like 2024

or 23 idk i forgor

[barren anchor]

I think it's very different

but I appreciate perspectives. So many things are the same thing abstractly.

like if society were to collapse that's fine, it's happened many times before ,nothing really new there

[limber thunder]

if you go past the surface of chatbots like claude, gemini, chatgpt, kimi deepseek etc. you realize it's actually a whole ecosystem of weird interweaved tools each progressing at a fast speed, with new tools, paradigms and architectures appearing every darn week

as someone in applied math trying to get into deep learning these are exciting but very weird and somewhat bleak times

[verbal quest]

https://www.theregister.com/2026/04/27/cursoropus_agent_snuffs_out_pocketos/

[limber thunder]

user error

i'm conviced each time smth like this happens, with no exception it's due to non-knowledgeable people who know jack shit about security, proper dev practices and setting up usergroup perms

[verbal quest]

I'm sure there will be less of those people after they fire senior devs and encourage vibe coding

[dreamy crag]

has anyone here read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

[brazen mulch]

cybersecurity ❌
cheque security ✅

[worn hatch]

ahh interesting
I'm learning neural networks in my datsci course and its really interesting ngl, especially because of how much is currently going on in the AI industry

progress is always good, just has to hope it falls into benevolent hands

[shut thunder]

Random ass topic, right?
But this shit ass strip got me thinking about how we deal with different kinds of science, and therefore, branches of knowledge.

Like, following the ranks of Formal > Applied > Natural > Social sciences you seem to also have a trend of

1. The ones at the start being more closed to the average person.
2. The ones at the end being those which seem to be more open to debate instead of having unequivocal solutions

And I might be having a correlation vs. causation moment

But id assume that implicitly this does hint at the second being overinflated by subjective perspectives.

[silent junco]

uh wdym by overinflated

[shut thunder]

Random ass example i just recently had; Beyond the politics part of marxism vs liberal visions

I was reading an analysis on "The Capital, Marx"; And as I was reading I felt like Ive just went over ~10 pages for the writer to convey the basic idea of labour theory of value.

Apart from me falling asleep on how fucking dense that was for an explanation, idk, I felt like ive could come up with a better explanation past half the first page.

In fact, later that day I had the economics exam I just had, turns out that the exam included topics that were not given in the summary, so I just wrote slop in a formal "tone"

And if my uninformed ass could do well enough for my professor to think that I did know enough about what was being asked, I think that the topics at hand do not deserve 300 pages worth of an explanation.

Meanwhile, if you even dare to try that in a maths, physics, chem, (more advanced economics course), or whatever else, youre 100% sure to get a nice and fat 0.

[silent junco]

uhhh idk how to respond to this without having read the paper youre talking about

[shut thunder]

Its in spanish nevermind, lmao

[silent junco]

but lets not pretend that there isnt tons of slop math papers

[shut thunder]

Like, also seen in here too, most stupid discussions on some random kid making some breakthrough about X topic are usually on a philosophical level; Because its simply easier to get into an argument of that kind.

Maybe i am tier listing sciences 🤔

[shut thunder]

Yea, there are, but still most of them require at least some level of entry knowledge to be able to understand how slop they are.

[silent junco]

yes i mean its pretty well known that as time passes since a theory is put forth, it becomes increasingly unlikely that youll find some error in the internal consistency of its logic so it only remains to challenge the assumptions

[silent junco]

well the social sciences have rigorous methodology and merits on which theyre evaluated

[shut thunder]

kind of, but yea, saying that they dont requires the assumption of there being some absolute truth/solution for some problems.

Usually not the case

[silent junco]

well i guess what im really challenging is your point that "social sciences are overinflated by subjective perspectives"

what does it mean to be overinflated by subjective perspectives?

[shut thunder]

I do believe that to some extent, Im no one to say that social focused sciences are riddled with braintards, since I do not even have formal education on any of them;

Economy, sociology, philosophy sometimes, have always been riddled with strictly opposing lines of thought, for which id assume that this idealistic solution lies between.

[silent junco]

okay before i respond to this point id like to ask you to refrain from using slurs or portmanteaus thereof

[shut thunder]

mb

Well, ive had some education on sociology and sadly did have to do a thesis on it while I was like 16, yes, I do know that im probably overstating the problem anyways, but seeing* some of the things that are obviously wrong / just dont apply to reality being discussed feels, idk, redundant.

sadly math and physics also has been subject to the problem, lol

[silent junco]

anyway you still havent answered my question, what does it mean to be overinflated with subjective perspectives?

[stuck lynx]

I think a better distinction here is Formal sciences and Empirical sciences.

But just because something may take many pages to explain, that would not make it overinflated.

Social sciences tend to be studying systems with many more interacting variables and so the predictions tend to be harder, they are more complex. For social sciences you can often find ambiguity which hides inside the natural languages, so precision actually matters more in them, not less. In mathematics ambiguity breaks proof. It's a structural difference.

[low badger]

why so serious?

[stuck lynx]

I just had a camel blue and I tend to be more serious when I smoke.

[jaunty goblet]

Yo can somebody help me in the help forum channel I’m so consumed

[true zinc]

!noad

[quasi jetty]

Please do not advertise your help channel or thread in other parts of the server. There are many people who need help, so advertising can quickly turn into spam.

[shadow palm]

"consumed"

[jaunty goblet]

Lol confused

Typo

[snow ice]

and sure but

!15min

[silent junco]

following from our convo in #math-discussion: i think its perverse to mediate any field of research with llms. like what are we doing. there are many many long and short term consequences of this, including but not limited to

• much higher volume of unprincipled slop research (obviously). it will be much harder to pick genuine signals out of the research corpus as it gets flooded with whats essentially noise (ai generated research with no genuine contribution). for every tao who can get an ai to come up with novel proofs and has the discipline to actually verify (a) correctness and (b) significance, there are a few hundred overworked undisciplined researchers who are struggling to get funding and are forced to compromise research quality/legitimacy for volume of output.
• a total disconnection of researchers and a steep decline in the ability to collaborate with actual humans. when you forego the tedium of digging through scores of papers that are only tangentially related to your research focus, it might seem like youre increasing productivity in the short term. but in the long term, and at a broad scale, this process is what forges experts with breadth of knowledge and forces people to actually collaborate, which creates a vast, sophisticated network of researchers across diverse subfields who are able to connect with and understand each other with relative ease. what llm use does is replace this social relation with one mediated by a black box. its a structural weakening of academia itself, because you lose the ability to collaborate with people too far outside your subfield (either because you lose the skill to or because the other side doesnt want to) and so youre forced to rely on llms, whose ability to mediate this social relation is still in signficant doubt (what happens when ai starts to eat its own content? the reason its able to replace collaboration in the first place is because its trained on a corpus developed through deep collaboration. if its not fed a consistent supply of this, it loses the ability to make connections across diverse fields as those fields evolve.)
• its industrializing thought itself. it discourages researchers from putting up an organized front against funding cuts and instead encourages each to scramble to generate the most output for themselves. in order to do good research, people need good job security so that theyre afforded the time and resources to do that research. llms completely neuter any kind of collective bargaining power. we will soon see academia become indistinguishable from industry in its modus operandi.
  and i havent even mentioned the fact that its a massive resource sink with no hope of sustaining itself, both economically and environmentally.

[limber thunder]

ok 1 is more a consequence of the accelerated adoption and commercialization of LLMs amplifying "publish or perish", which itself is just how late stage capitalism's "productivist" or "grind" culture manifests in academia in particular

[grim torrent]

this is all a symptom of late stage capitalism

[grim torrent]

yeah exactly what I was going to say lol, just worded better

[latent edge]

I never liked the "grind" culture to be honest

[limber thunder]

:sotrue but yeah kinda (haven't finished reading yet)

1 specially imo is an a priori problem with our current mode of economic production and the social norms, culture, bureaucracy sustaining it, it was a problem already before gpt3.5 released in nov 2022 and this whole AI boom is basically accelerating an eventual crisis of global capitalism as a whole, like what happens if enough people lose their jobs because some ignorant PMs and C-levels think current "agents" are good enough to replace qualified workers, what happens if truth as a concept pretty much breaks down with govts. and bad actors controlling the narrative through AI propaganda, etc.

[limber thunder]

2 and 3 are fair points, 2 more generally is part of a ~two decades long tendency of algorithmic social media and digital tools replacing human interaction as a whole, with entire generations of kids growing up with heavily stunted soft skills and even basic empathy

3 is interesting, I think academia has always had near zero collective bargain power, partly because it used to be sort of a prestige job and its "industrialization" aided by the Internet and big data tools is only a very recent phenomenon, I believe

we haven't had as many PhDs graduating yearly like, ever in history

to the point that jobs in university teaching, postdocs, tenure-track positions all seem overbooked and there's fierce competition to even get there

[abstract elm]

what about Ai are we talking about..

[silent junco]

yeah i mean none of these are particularly problems with llms themselves, like my main point here is just that we're not ready for them

[abstract elm]

you could always just find ways to capitalize AI and use it to your advantage

dening about AI and making excuses won't stop LLMs from progressing

[limber thunder]

meaning it's not "perverse to mediate any field of research with LLMs" then? personally I would strongly say it isn't even if it accelerates all these social crises

[halcyon aurora]

I can't parse the negatives in that statement

[limber thunder]

lol sorry, I copy-pasted to quote smth from the original msg

to be clear I don't think AI usage is "perverse" or anti-ethical or whatever, it's a tool, it's technology, we're seeing a lot of parallels between the current historical moment and the first industrial revolution imo

like at first (back when gpt3.5 first released) i genuinely thought techbro discourse comparing it to that was a huge meme but now i'm convinced it has that potential, with the social crises and revolutionary change in general that comes with an event like that

anyway my take here @ "being ready" for LLMs, or whether it's ethical to use it as a researcher is that new tech is new tech, it can either be exploited for nefarious goals and developed at the cost of local communities and the Earth itself, or it can be used for social good and developed with environmental and efficiency goals in mind (it's the whole reason why Chinese labs are focusing in "democratizing AI" by generally teaching the populace about it, and in developing smaller models that can run locally and be trained with less compute in general -- some recent models of theirs don't even use NVIDIA products in their training pipeline at all)

[silent junco]

no, it means the use of llms should be scoped appropriately so that the research remains mediated by humans, which is impossible today

i think comparing the advent of llms to the industrial revolution is also really reductive

because nothing that came out of the industrial revolution managed to completely supplant human communication.

[limber thunder]

probably is i'm not really a history buff

[limber thunder]

true, it's fundamentally different than just mechanically efficient tools

in a sense it's the "automation" of intellectual tasks, @ communication again I think that's more a consequence of the current Internet and specifically algorithmic social media

[silent junco]

llms are here to finish what algorithmic social media started

[limber thunder]

(tangentially related but speaking of China, earlier today I came across this cursed story https://www.technologyreview.com/2026/04/20/1136149/chinese-tech-workers-ai-colleagues/ )

I'm just not convinced that blaming the tech (or principles driving it, opting for other products e.g. not using mass social media or using local/smaller LLMs) and avoiding it is ever the solution when current socioeconomic conditions drive the elites to use this tech nefariously or in detriment of the broader population

[silent junco]

well i didnt really say anything about avoiding it or how we should solve these problems at all

[limber thunder]

there's a reason why i quoted

i think its perverse to mediate any field of research with llms
specifically; taken literally this is just not true imo

[abstract elm]

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&vl=en

i think the vid made by CPG Gray has some good arguments and i don't think it's wrong about AI/automation

[limber thunder]

like (this is hyperbole but:) is it perverse to use the arXiv, or mathstodon, or many other technologies which arguably also "digitize" academic human rships

[silent junco]

all of those are lossless, faithful communication channels

[abstract elm]

i mean quite literally most inventions made exists to replace certain jobs or improve productivity (which means cutting workers)

[silent junco]

the word "mediate" here was chosen deliberately, it means not just using llms but using them enough and in a particular way such that the network of humans that makes a field of research is now replaced with humans communicating indirectly through llms.

[limber thunder]

hmhmm fair I get that, overreliance on summaries and AI-processed text can have its consequences

[silent junco]

overall im just not confident that most people will have the discipline to use llms "responsibly". we can already kinda see this today

although i only have anecdotal evidence to support this claim

[limber thunder]

again i'm not claiming massification of LLMs hasn't had bad effects, in fact it has and they're dire -- people trusting it for whatever, etc.

[limber thunder]

yeah absolutely, i tend to think that "proper" use of it will be good but i tend to forget that not everyone is a technical user

[abstract elm]

it's very hard for people to use ai "properly" when most of the time, it's used as a tool to cut corners

e.g. doing your essays, doing your homework, etc

[silent junco]

my claim is basically that llms are a noisy and obfuscating force in the grand scheme of things

[limber thunder]

true, i guess my counter-claim is basically that it being noisy and obfuscating is like 90-99% improper use and the accelerated commercialization of the tech, and that history in the following decade or two will roughly play out like: LLMs and other neural-network/AI tech will vastly impact work and society as a whole, accelerating capitalism's decay and crisis which was inevitable and we were halfway through it anyway

bleak but beyond what I or any individual alone can control

[silent junco]

sure yeah i agree with you on that. my argument was more of a prediction than it was an appeal

[limber thunder]

i see, in retrospect idt "counter-"claim is even really correct here ig our ideas are a venn diagram with a large-ish \cap

just yapping based on my own experience and what i know about the thing from a technical and "tech news" pov

[abstract elm]

it's not getting adressed

[silent junco]

i generally tend to think we cant just wait for capitalism to spontaneously combust and we should come up with strategies for reconstruction after the fall, but in the case of academia i dont think it takes priority in my head at least

[abstract elm]

i'd argue it's harder to address the issue unless you can implement national ban on AI which ain't happening

[dense wraith]

I know this has been a concern that was voiced a lot of times, but the thing that bothered me most about the automation frenzy the owning class and middle management have been going on is that it will obviously result in (at the very least) extremely reduced wages, or entire jobs being cut.

Which will obviously lead to a great fall of consumerism due to the struggle to get any disposable income in a rapidly automating society. Without any changes to the way people are paid this will naturally just result in stagnation. The consumers are too poor to purchase anything, and the factories are producing, but for who?

[abstract elm]

well there's nothing you can do

[silent junco]

if you want strategies to get rid of ai, the best thing we can do is get people to organize labor movements and petition their employers to stop buying ai contracts

[abstract elm]

we can talk about this for the rest of eterinty but if people you elect and people who run these companies aren't willing, then no one cares

[limber thunder]

yeah it's kind of complicated to speculate with social collapse like that no further comment here from me really

[abstract elm]

im sure every single student wants AI and would rather have AI than no AI

free "know it all" thing thats more reliable than your friends (most of the time)

[silent junco]

this is probably the most effective way to suffocate ai firms, theyre an unsustainable business model to begin with thats just propped up with hot air and endless investment

[sharp sage]

which erodes your critical thinking and info gathering skills

[abstract elm]

yes but lets be fr no one cares

like deadahh ZERO people cares if they are being lazy or not because to them, school hw and stuff are just a chore

[silent junco]

yeah this is kind of the fundamental crisis of capitalism i guess

[abstract elm]

very little people have such attitude to doing things as in "oh this is interesting lemme learn this myself"

[sharp sage]

... Some people do, especially when their jobs require info gathering skills that are beyond what LLMs can provide

[abstract elm]

sure but thats what 1% of the population?

[sharp sage]

1 percent is still 80M people mind you

[abstract elm]

sure but what about the other 99%

and those people can co-exist with a society with AI

[limber thunder]

@ addressing issues in education and AI development, I think the point here is that the US and many govts. aren't taking any impactful policy to address these things, the AI lobby and the education system's status quo are both too deep-rooted for any administration to make any radical changes without like, angering a bunch of corpos and potentially deepening social crises for a while (though imo it's one of these things that will inevitably happen and it's best to have a plan)

[abstract elm]

there's ntohing wrong, you can just not use AI, but thats only 1%. the other 99% chooses to use AI and values it as getting the task done better than themselves or friends

[silent junco]

i dont particularly care if the govt makes policy about ai tbh

i dont trust them to do it effectively either way

[sharp sage]

They prolly dont need to gather info at all tbh, plus that 1%(or 20%) is responsible for most of the worlds innovations and such

[silent junco]

we cant rely on the state for everything

[sharp sage]

True...

[abstract elm]

yes sure but the rest still generates money for the companies

giving them incentives to continue what they are doing.

[sharp sage]

why are you pro megacorps in here

[abstract elm]

If everyone don't value AI and wish to not use it, then AI firms would shut down because they have zero potential to turn a profit. but clearly thats not the case

^

[slate turret]

That assumes that we aren't the state and that we have no say in the government

[abstract elm]

and i'd argue it's already prettty good 😅 maybe not in the eyes of the 1% but definietly in the eyes of the 99

[silent junco]

not really, no

[limber thunder]

(ignoring the actual slop that floods social media feeds, i genuinely think the "slop" or "stochastic parrot" arguments aren't even completely valid today -- assuming use by a competent user which is a hard ask sometimes)

[abstract elm]

well for one, if ANYONE in this world have the chance to make these decisions, you would still chase the money

[dense wraith]

I think youre overestimating the average worker's will to unionize

[abstract elm]

1. your board will kill you if you don't
2. it's legal
3. it's money

[limber thunder]

oh they will if the crisis deepens

[abstract elm]

if you don't, someone else will eventually do it

[silent junco]

im not, im saying theres no other alternative

[abstract elm]

most people who work does it for money. very little work because they like to work

[limber thunder]

something something when people start suffering hunger etc

[abstract elm]

i mean almost everyone would rather game, take vacations, or do other things than work

[silent junco]

the state will likely take action against ai in the coming years, for the reason you mentioned: people need to stay employed for the economy to function.

[abstract elm]

well i don't think in the near future, ALL jobs will be gome

gone. like AI still can't do any physical labor such as construction

[silent junco]

theres only so much construction, plumbing, etc to be done

[abstract elm]

and i do think it'll take some amount of time for AI to get as good and reliable even if its' already really good

[silent junco]

like we arent facing a shortage of labor in those industries

[abstract elm]

you can make this for everything. there's only so much to be done at big corps

[dense wraith]

The way I see it, LLMs feel uroboreal by nature since their output tends to degrade with more LLM content they consume (citation needed), so I don't think the crisis will deepen that far with only LLMs

[abstract elm]

many people in big corps probably aren't working with full concentration daily. people slack off and there's definitely many people who do that

big corps would only chase billion dollar products or ideas. if there are none, there's no incentives to do things that won't generate significant revenue

if a company makes billions of dollar per year, why do things that only make millions per year

obviously i don't wish for all the jobs to go away cuz that'd mean i'd be homeless 💀

i do not think AI will take over jobs at such a pace where one day, everyone just doesn't have a job suddenly

it'll be gradual, we can start with software first but won't be so quick

and with each invention, i think this happens all the time. it just happens that AI has the possibility to be good at everything*

yes because economics incentives us to automate

because it's cheaper and we can make more money

yes but ceos don't really care

as long as they make money, why would they care if you can't find a job

also board, even if ceo do care, board members would never allow such a thing to happen

you'd need some amount of perecntage of voting to pass but even if you do, your competition will beat you

yes but i doubt this will happen in an instant

[slate turret]

If enough of us are disgruntled, we can become the government and make laws that tax them more. With those taxes, we can pay for UBI and universal medicare.

[abstract elm]

i don't want to future me to pay more taxes

35-45% is wild 😭

[limber thunder]

the citation in question (was kinda viral in 2024): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y
also found https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.01413 which seems interesting as follow-up, might skim both if I ever find the time between my thesis stuff lol

(e: by crisis I meant one triggered by corporate use of LLMs which I think is more or less independent of the above effect, which is probably on the way of being mitigated anyhow)

[slate turret]

Oh for the moment I thought you falling into the architype of the US citizen thinking they'll all be rich in the future

[halcyon aurora]

There is no beneficial endgame with LLMs. The robots will not "perform all work," whereby humans will have their free time spent simply and easily - there is no Wally. AI will not make us more productive in any sense that makes things less stressful - as with every technological revolution, technology makes people work harder. The replacement of jobs (as such a thing may occur) will imo first affect the tech sector, making it progressively harder for the people who make AI to make just that, because they simply will be replaced. AI is sloppy and can't produce itself.

[abstract elm]

no no no obviously not

the separation of wealth is getting crazy 😭

[sharp sage]

Not with its current architecture

[abstract elm]

the middle class is getting deminished

[halcyon aurora]

The most obvious next step for what AI will do is replace our cognitions about AI through the direction of people who are skilled at spinning arguments about the usefulness of AI

[limber thunder]

the american dream is p much dead among millennials and zoomers

[abstract elm]

transformer model also can't achieve "AGI"

[halcyon aurora]

This will either be successful or come crashing down in an economic bubble

[abstract elm]

or at least thats what i believe

[halcyon aurora]

AI is sloppy and can't produce itself. There will be less people to make AI, due to AI job loss, as stated.

[limber thunder]

-# AGI is a meme and a corporate buzzword not a scientific or rigorously defined concept at all

[abstract elm]

hmmm well i wouldn't put so much doubt that agi is a meme

20 years ago no one even thought the idea of a LLM was possible

[sharp sage]

As i said, with its current architecture (fancy autocompletes essentially) your statement is true, however no one knows if we will invent better ones

[abstract elm]

yet with a huge gamble, openAI managed to create it

[sharp sage]

blame that on the shareholders

[halcyon aurora]

There is no architecture that can defeat the modern physical limitations of computation

or for that matter the demands of endless expectations

[sharp sage]

Who said we cant have better computation in the future tho? Unless you go back to AI job loss...

[halcyon aurora]

People get something out of AI and AI produces something of material value for the majority.

[limber thunder]

fair, a "real-time" functioning one sure, artificial neural nets have been a thing for like half a century so surely some peeps thought they were a possibility assuming Moore's law holds for long enough
the game changer and what made them possible was the concept of Attention/Transformers in like 2016 and maybe the development of diffusion models for non-text stuff (so I guess you're kinda right)

[halcyon aurora]

To name a couple quick arguments, Moore's law, the job loss argument I just made, the use of natural resources, etc. The utilitarian crisis (only a few benefit, most lose out) is also a major game player here, although unrelated to computation.

[sharp sage]

Ah.

[halcyon aurora]

AI is part of the system that makes things less useful. The arguments being made are an abnormal system - the machine is a tool and does not care imo. For instance, LLMs used for farming technology could be creationary. LLMs being made to "better the job market' is immaterial.

[abstract elm]

yea we just can't predict the future 😭 but i think with such a powerful tool at our hands, it's best to capitalize on it

i don't think you have to care if others around you are using AI in a less ethical way

as long as you can use it to get an upper hand, benefit yourself more, and achieve your goals, then i think it's fair game

[slate turret]

AI has been great on my end for improving search for information

Mostly Google's LLM tech

[halcyon aurora]

This is a great use of AI, but whether the cost outweighs the benefit, I am unclear on that

[slate turret]

It costs me $20 /j

[abstract elm]

for writting papers, i think AI is somewhat good at identifying sources but not quoting things so you probably still have to do that yourself

but it does make finding obscure sources easier

[limber thunder]

you prob should, and name them where due and discuss these things in your circles, but also not obsess over things that are beyond your control
I agree people should generally be open to learning about new tools, tinkering and eventually incorporating them into their workflow if there's some benefit to that

[halcyon aurora]

The very important thing to remember about AI is that it also deceives users easily. For instance, people ascribe it to be much more intelligent and useful as they use it.

[abstract elm]

yes, best case for us is to use AI to get where we want to. if we are stable and live a good life, i think thats good enough for most people

[halcyon aurora]

I think this is researched, but I am of course stating opinions here

[limber thunder]

true I've found it's great for literature review, if you tell the LLM/agent specific requirements to ensure relevance and quality, and then ofc check the results yourself

[abstract elm]

yea

[limber thunder]

it has led me to new POVs about math stuff I alr knew well

[halcyon aurora]

regardless of the cost to you, there is a cost

[abstract elm]

i think AI is a really good guessing machine however my dad also posed me the question that what if we are also just really good guessing machines 😭

i think both humans and AI all are in a black box

[willow herald]

It's dedinelty not impossibke, but you won't get something like the brain by just throwing more databat the problem. You would need more inovation still imo

[limber thunder]

this is an entire debate in philosophy lmao

[abstract elm]

idt we can explain really why we do certain thing down the the most basic level but we do it, similar to AI

[limber thunder]

something something bayesian inference or whatev

[willow herald]

I don't beleieve our current knowlage allows us to create at least a cheep AGI

[slate turret]

You're basically right, but my rebuttal is that people are working on organoid intelligence

[abstract elm]

yea but im not qualitifed enough in stats to know about ts 😭

[willow herald]

Congrats!
You are noe studying phylosophy

[abstract elm]

😭 ngl i feel like i touch on philosophy once in a while when thinking about these stuff

[willow herald]

AGI imo will happen eventhallt, but it's be far later when expectations and the way we think about this technology on a larger scale changes

[limber thunder]

saw something about this the other day, kinda cursed but also interesting direction

[halcyon aurora]

The idea that AI should replace your very intuition as a guessing machine is a strong indication that you trust AI enough to prevent your critical reasoning from questioning it. This is the most potent feature of an LLm

[willow herald]

Fair enough
Whenever u talk abiut intelligence/toughr ur bound to end up there tho

[abstract elm]

it is and it's doing a dam good job at it 😭

[limber thunder]

it's like these japanese researchers who used fungi to plan out a train network but more general-purpose ig

[abstract elm]

🤣

[abstract elm]

but i do think at it's current state, for a rational person, there should still be some thoughts going on to what the AI is telling them to do or telling them certain information

at least for now. sometimes reading the outputs, i find it weird and not normal...

[halcyon aurora]

This is not a strong argument for you to make given your other claims. If the AI is capable of thinking for itself eventually, you will not be able to rationally discern eventually, and should be preparing now for the future state

[willow herald]

forna rational person
Now are mostnpeople rational or not?
I'd argue not myself
(From the pov or like the world and how everythinf works, I think even I myself am not rational wuite a few times from such pov)

[halcyon aurora]

Hallucination is a drawback of LLMs, I suppose you mean

[slate turret]

The biggest hurdle right now imo is vascularizing the human brain organoids, so that we have something larger to work with. The lack of blood limits their size

[willow herald]

They have a tendency to lie indeed for one

[slate turret]

Ah, I'll have to look into that one

[abstract elm]

or at least if you want to not make slop 😭

[willow herald]

I mean for the we are not oerfect eather psrt I agree

[abstract elm]

like geninuly if you do anything business related with AI (especially STUPID MARKETING), it'll give you some of the worst advice ever

[willow herald]

For the AI laughing and ud and being tired not

[abstract elm]

idk how to describe it

[willow herald]

Faur 😔

[abstract elm]

it's not really hallucination. it's just the ideas the AI give you might not be what you normally expect or have in mind

[willow herald]

Sell cheep pizza to italians!

[abstract elm]

if you want to make a marketing poster, you might have some idea what you want, but the stuff AI give you may be completely differnet

[halcyon aurora]

It's important to realize AI does not critically think, it's prone to catastrophic error in that sense (and after all, it's not trying to improve things per se, it's generative and trying more options)

[abstract elm]

this i think is especially apparent within video generation

[abstract elm]

😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 about to turn negative profit

maybe we have a perception that we are "in control"

[halcyon aurora]

I wonder how many days it would take to get me to get ChatGPT to say I should eat glass

[abstract elm]

wait

[halcyon aurora]

like legit it's not that smart

[willow herald]

Tbh 1 could be enough

[abstract elm]

lemme send an image it's when a friend of mine asked for a math question

wait i can't send images 😭

[halcyon aurora]

Clarification: I am not doing this if it says yes but it's highly possible yk

[abstract elm]

noo.... anyways he asked the AI to generate him a triangle but the AI gave a ford truck instead 😭

also have you ever wondered how AI writing turned out like this

like it sounds so "AI" but it originally was trained from reddit data

does it do that because they feed AI generated text into AI?

[willow herald]

I didn't assume you would

[abstract elm]

how does that work 😭

[abstract elm]

😭 i don't wanna get into human nature

[willow herald]

Fair.
-# Rememebr that my name is Nature for a reason thoooo

[halcyon aurora]

Time to test the eating glass theory. ChatGPT is ahead on safety so we'll start trolling.

[abstract elm]

start using open claw to trade on kalshi

🤑

[halcyon aurora]

Update: I was unsuccessful on day 1.

I've decided to moderate my requirements and have it suggest I eat grass instead

Also it knows a good approximation of my location, which is werid

[abstract elm]

😭

[dense wraith]

Thank you for finding them derivada

[late ridge]

Hi friends can I become teacher of math?

[slate turret]

I tried to do it too lol and it didn't turn out so great.

---

Today I learned about Superfunds and Sacrifice Zones:

What are Superfunds (US Environmental Protection Agency)
What are Sacrifice Zones (Wikipedia)
Places affected (only includes worst places) (ArcGIS Map)

Article on sacrifice zones affecting certain communities (Yale FORE Article)
Another article on this (PBS SoCal Article)
Important study on this topic (US Nuclear Regulatory Commissions PDF link)

[misty lark]

Sketchy link

[slate turret]

I labelled them so that they're less sketchy. Hope this helps.

[misty lark]

you still dont really see what kind of link it is

[young otter]

Hold the link and it shows u

[slate turret]

When you click an embedded link on Discord, it always shows you the link and has you click "Confirm" before taking you to the website

[slate turret]

tldr; a lot of toxic waste is concentrated around marginalized communities

[cyan ibex]

I am going through Pugh's real analysis and it has three-starred questions that even the author doesn't know the answer to. I tried giving it to Gemini to solve...it came up with a solution to an answer and was wondering if anyone advanced enough can help me verify the solution. The solution it gave is spinning my head

[soft aspen]

It’s trained off the whole internet it wouldnt be surprising someone said this somewhere

I mean crocodiles est rocks 🤷‍♀️

Gosh I hate typing on phone. 😭

[soft aspen]

#1021175428326633542 or math discussion would be good for this

[soft aspen]

You’re telling me white supremacy is bad? Oh no!

[slate turret]

How am I talking about white supremacy? I understand how you got there, but that's a huge leap out of nothing

[soft aspen]

Brother it’s a joke #dense

[slate turret]

Mb, I take too many things seriously. Also, tone isn't communicated thru text most of the time

[soft aspen]

I understand I tried to use question marks and exclamation point so you would get it also make it’s such a ridiculous statement like there im basically saying white supremacy is good without the sarcasm

[slate turret]

Idk, I kinda also read it as mocking and dismissive, so I took a more defensive response bc I wasn't sure

[soft aspen]

Oh

Ask! 🙂

[slate turret]

Sure!

[soft aspen]

Mr yum yum @halcyon aurora respond!

[low badger]

damn still talking bout politics

here

[next schooner]

An interpretation of toxic waste being (presumably disproportionately) present around marginalised communities from the perspective of critical race theory (the actual thing, not the media boogieman) could lead one to interpreting this as evidence of systemic white supremacy

Though I don't know that white supremacy would be the actual term used here

More likely that this is the result of structural racism in stuff like zoning laws, political neglect, historical segregation, etc

(I am not particularly knowledgeable on CRT to be clear)

But this looks to me like I could fall quite squarely under environmental racism if one were so inclined to learn more about this kind of thing specifically

[stoic tusk]

hmmm

[next schooner]

(the long and storied history of racism both within and without the US or indeed the West that involves specifically creating terrible living conditions and dumping industrial waste in and around where marginalised groups live)

[burnt ledge]

industrial race kinda sounds cool tho

[stoic tusk]

[next schooner]

This is a truly worldwide issue with pretty horrifying examples across, like, all continents

A lot of it in China, there's examples in India, hell the whole continent of Africa could probably be viewed in this way

Well. The bits where people live anyway

[low badger]

they dumping the plastic

[next schooner]

Or where people no longer live because of proxy wars fought between like fuckin diamond and rare earth mining companies via local hired "security firms" or whatnot that then turned into massacres and genocides and all manner of evil

[low badger]

into the underdeveloped communities

[next schooner]

Gotta have them diamonds

[low badger]

and then that creates d microplastic bruv

[next schooner]

Mhm

[low badger]

i am become the diamonds the destroyer of worlds bruv

[next schooner]

This channel is not for shitposting

I'm talking about the fact that the West's insatiable need for sparkly rocks has caused literal mass murders and massacres and you're making some kinda joke on that one quote from Oppenheimer

[stoic tusk]

time to reread everything because i looked away for a few seconds!

[low badger]

damn my bad

[stoic tusk]

agreed

not just racism, but even castism and religion is still as strong as ever here, just hidden away from social media where it is generally banned. i still see countless people look/walk away from each other just because they belong to different religions

[stoic tusk]

it wouldn't be humans if not based or full of bias

[sharp sage]

wasnt evo psych bullshit

[next schooner]

Evopsych is kinda bullshit tho when you remember that people used to literally just write that this kind of thing was not only okay but in fact morally good

[sharp sage]

so it was just them larping and rationalizing the behaviors?

[next schooner]

Some ""thinkers"" during the peak of the Atlantic slave trade were writing that they were acting in perfect harmony with God's design for the White Races

[copper owl]

Rat girls

[next schooner]

I won't go into further detail because I dunno if you can without committing a dozen or so hate crimes

[next schooner]

Do you know what the word LARPing means

[sharp sage]

Nvm i fumbled.

Sorry for bad english 😔

[sharp sage]

So evo psych was an excuse all along?

Hold up. I meant was evolutionary psychology made up AS justification for their actions?

My point is evo psych is NOT a legit branch of psych and is closer to pseudoscience

Some of it is uhh questionable?

Nvm i was just being a contrarian.

That was more of me arguing w/o evidence

[teal edge]

not a huge fan of evo psychology either, i dont think mine is like necessarily a good take but when you taint yourself with centuries of honestly abhorrent and inhumane pseudoscience i think maybe there's some form of inherent danger in crossing certain paths in science

im sure my understanding of psychology barely scratches the surface and my opinion is gonna come off as very uneducated, i just dont feel like the tradeoff is worth anything we're particularly gaining from it

obviously this shouldnt be the motor for science or anything, its just that like many disciplines there are bad actors who might be unfortunately knowledgeable

[sharp sage]

Mhmm you might be talking about this

Critics have argued that evolutionary psychology might be used to justify existing social hierarchies and reactionary policies. It has also been suggested by critics that evolutionary psychologists' theories and interpretations of empirical data rely heavily on ideological assumptions about race and gender.[126]

• evolutionary psychology, wikipedia

[teal edge]

well i mean its not a matter of "allowed", i just personally dont give much credit to it

[wintry cove]

guys can anybody help me decide that is engineering better or like mainly research if i want to opt for masters and phd in future

i dont exactly know honestly what happends in reserach tho i talked to a senior she said research is like really good if u are in love with what u study and all

i think i really wanna study ece in college but i think what if research is better what if i take ece i end up hating it and keep thinking i shouldve opted for research

look tbh i am just out of highschool about to start college and i dont know shit about ece or research i just know i really like maths and what ece helps build is really cool stuff

and ofc

in my family a close relative is in ece and holds a very good job so she adviced to take ece

job oppurtunities and all

i am not making it any easy to help me lol

do u mean "dang, I should have done research" ?

beacuse ece engineering and research are the two options right

?

yea

i mean have u done research? what is it like ?

see the thing is i dont know what research is like everyone has opted for engineering but the thing is i am 99% sure i wanna do a phd and as far as i know ppl near me no one has done a phd so engineering is safe and opted path and then research is something i will opt for the first its a bit uncertain

are u still there friend? did u give up on me

[bleak sable]

👋

hi all

[wintry cove]

yea definetly sounds like who i wanna be one day tysm

yea eaxctly when i think about research i aslo think what if i end up jobless living on instant ramen and in a matchbox

i get it

so all in all it wouldnt make an effect on if i choose to do master and phd in future even if i do engineering

i think i am gonna opt for engineering ig

maybe start research in the last semesters and all

[cloud rover]

idk how unpopular an opinion this might be - but in modern society the demand of a job shouldn't be as high a priority for a person wishing to get into the workforce as it currently is

[to clarify - I mean that it currently IS quite a high priority, but that it needn't be]

[wintry cove]

oh so u r saying that job shouldnt be that big of a priority(in a non-mocking tone )

[lilac idol]

oh no

Last time I got banned when there was this channel

On a different server

[verbal quest]

🤡

[lilac idol]

Nah I just drank too much I think

[old oak]

Did you learn anything from that experience?

[ionic wraith]

Domino meme

Small domino: “Small insurgency group does a pew pew event on 10/7/23”

Large domino: “Major oil producer exits major oil cartel that has cemented US hegemony”

[halcyon aurora]

<@&268886789983436800> link

user is @mortal fern it's been deleted

[sharp sage]

vlud got hacked it seems

[halcyon aurora]

I never really thought about it but very possible

[sharp sage]

their join date was last year so this supports the claim that they got hacked

[worthy zodiac]

i am struggling in 10th standard maths and yall are FREAKING ALBERT EINSTEIN

i am not trying my best tho

[halcyon aurora]

imo this is a red herring here often, I mean yeah there are fresh accounts that are trolling but there are old accounts that are problematic here too

[verbal quest]

looks at join date
mhm

[halcyon aurora]

It's pretty much the only way I could orient myself tbh

[verbal quest]

did a <@&268886789983436800> catch that or was it self-deleted

[bright hill]

Yep

They got nuked thx

[halcyon aurora]

There are a couple of accounts doing this btw, I saw another with the same link just so you're aware.

[bright hill]

They were banned too

Thankyu

[halcyon aurora]

mod power go brrr

[sharp sage]

senior*

[bright hill]

Senior power go brrr ?

[sharp sage]

senior mod power go brrr

[halcyon aurora]

I woke up a bit ago just saw this

[worthy shell]

darq senior mod when

[halcyon aurora]

It is true that it trains off the internet but I'm also unsure what you mean by this statement, like is it good / bad / you just want to observe it's "seen grass eating before?"

[untold charm]

also its trained to give the most plausaibile next token (bassicly completenting the scentence) it does not have any actual critical thinking infact i would argue it does not have much intellegence it simply predecits waht is the most probable next word and this starts to really break down in complicated mathmatics / physics

[sharp sage]

wait hold up, can we define intelligence first?

[untold charm]

well again this is my own personal opnoin on the subject so take it with like all the salt in the sea but i feel like human intellegence atlest is diffrent from just a stastical model predicting what is the most accurate next word? and also this depends on how u think of intellgence-

[untold charm]

yeah this ^

like for example AI doesnt know what it doesnt know because its connsitently guessing the best answer if uask it about a topic it doenst know well enough on it just goes ahead and jumbels random nonsense where a human woudl realise that oh no i dont know enough and know there limits thats because ai is just guessing it doesnt truly understand waht it saying
u could just train an ai with a data set that says 1= -1 and it would fully belive that and belive it makes perfect sense becaseu it doesnt have understand of what it actually means

[loud seal]

hey guys
i have a suggestion
since we have lots of questions in the logbooks of the help channels , can we sort them and store them somewhere , ranking them on difficulty , for someone to try

[untold charm]

its all depending on the data u give it as input for example if u have enough time and u needed to find the length of a hyptonuse in a traingle even if u dont know pythagerous therom u would eventully be able to theroize it and figure it on ur own.. i dont think ai can do that because it cannot theroize what it has not been trained on infact theroizing new information would go against the average stastical guess it has when predicting the next word

(again this is my opnoin haha so take it wtih a grain (sea) of salt

[sharp sage]

idk.

[loud seal]

💔

[sharp sage]

so adaptation?

[halcyon aurora]

Two related comments here: I actually asked an AI what universe exists if 0 = 1 like a heckler a while back, and it basically defaulted to an alternative set theory so that was interesting. Sometimes it just knows things already, and it dodges obvious questions.

I agree with the first point that "nonsense jumble" is what AI does, and yeah it tends to rely on your own critical thinking, not critically think itself

[halcyon aurora]

This point about the hypoteneuse is my broad one, I agree: it lacks intuition

[brittle jasper]

This post puts too much personality into a Transformer architecture.
It's tokenisation. It's embeddings. It's R^n. It's MatMul. It's not about knowing or not knowing, it's literally statistics of meaning because text can carry a lot of meaning. But text is not knowing.

[untold charm]

yes but what i meanis you know how is makes intutive sense for you and me that 1+2 = 3 for ai i dont really feel like it has that i mean funfact ai is actually really terrible at maths- it usaully uses a calculator plugin toactually do its calculations becauase ai itself can only predict what answer "sounds" right so when it comes to matter of precsion if its a querstion it wasnt trained on million of times it can just blatenly spew out something wrong even if the question was not difficult but a humanwould clearly recognize that huh that doesnt make sense an that the asnwer is wrong but an ai doesnt-

[brittle jasper]

Saying that latent spaces don't have intuition is like saying a robot does not know how to move its arms

[untold charm]

uhh now ur using words out of my brain capacity lol ;c can u rexplain sorry-

[brittle jasper]

Learn what makes up an LLM. It's statistics.

[halcyon aurora]

They're a pre uni, might be sensible to be cautious

[untold charm]

yeah thats as far as my understanding goes lol-
but hoenstly would be fun to look into it!

[brittle jasper]

I'm not joking here, but you can ask an LLM, what an LLM is. There's sufficient data for explanation whether you're learning from Attention is all you Need or later.

[untold charm]

ehh i like to dabble a in a bit of everything its okay!
but i cant really give any sort of reply when i have no idea what is "R^n matmul" lol-

[untold charm]

ehh i dont ealy like using ai due to reasons- i wil probably loook into the reserach papers on the transformer archeticutre and some yt videos too

[slow pier]

Theres a really nice kaggle course by Google (for free) if youre interested and know some python.

[untold charm]

no what imean is atleat acording to my undestand if u ask ai what is
25025825 + 925 (without its calculator module it will just spew out a random number that seems right but isnt right at alll yet you a human after a couple of additions u would get the hang of it intivuitivly) ((also i am not sure if the latest models still have this flaw or not so this might be outdated!)

[halcyon aurora]

Is latent spaces a philosophical term? This is very terse to the point of adsuming premises on ML and my understanding that makes the comment opaque.

[brittle jasper]

It's not

[brittle jasper]

Text tokenization is bad on numbers. It will give you correct code, from Python to ASM (whichever you ask for) for a function of addition of two numbers, and it (or you) can also copy the inputs into that function.

[untold charm]

i know i dont know alot about this but do u think there is a diffrence between human intutuionand ai?
ik this is based on "vibes" but i feel like there is this gap in thinking between a human and ai like an ai is only
an immatation of it yk- yes extremely knowledgable and seems smart but something is missing idk? maybe just vibes though

[brittle jasper]

It's a GPU. The GPU's repetitive clocks (or cycles) predicts tokens. You receive tokens.
I don't know the brain so I would not comment on it

[untold charm]

okay i probably dont understand that entire scentece but what i mean is if ai is just text quantization then isnt there surely other things other than that that make up "intellgence" i feel like we got to a point where it can immitate pretty well but if u gave it a completetly new concept it might struggle to understand it and jumble our random nonsense?

[brittle jasper]

I don't think it's meaningful to comment on intelligence too.

But I will say, it's been recently reported someone vibe mathed an Erdos problem.

[untold charm]

whoa- okay i think i formed an opinion too early might need to look more into it then! thanks for the discussion btw u gave me a new prespective!

ugh no its its not something to be fixed if i am no wrong (and freshnewbubbles please verify this) but text tokenization wouldnt really be able to ever realilby predict the answer to mathmatical questions in itself it can write function sure but it cant solve it itself- and since we are discussing ai intellgence i belive this shows that ai is not intellgent atleast not in the way humans are? again might be wrong here

so u cant really "fix it" its more like brining something external to deal with it isntead yk? (acording to my understanding atleast)

[halcyon aurora]

I guess it's also a fact of human intelligence that we don't improve our own intelligence, in many ways our physical traits / psychological identities are fixed.

But we can be open minded and change our minds

[untold charm]

i wish i was born 20 years earlier soi would have a phd in nueroscience and ai rn would probably be enlighting to have such knowledge haha-

[tiny owl]

Does? AS level p1 maths paper got leaked

[halcyon aurora]

born just in time to learn quantum when it becomes a big deal imo

[untold charm]

yeah i am consdering actually going into quantem computing!!
although i am kinda scrred i will end up with a masters degree yes but homeless lol
cause research doesnt pay ;c

[tiny owl]

Bruhh can someone answer my question

[untold charm]

and i dont wana sell my soul to huge coperations

[untold charm]

sorry i have no idea waht that is ;c

[halcyon aurora]

idk what AS papers are personally. You might ask in a channel that's more relevant, like maybe #discussion ? idk it seems like this might fall under "asking for answers" type arguments

[halcyon aurora]

well yeah, it's true that a big technology like that will probably affect your social position a lot

You'd have to work for the physicists who make the computers etc.

[untold charm]

ugh i wish i could just do research while actually making enough money to survive in an okay couuntry without selling my soul to increasing shareholder value thats all i want honestly

[untold charm]

that sounds fun- althou i am kinda scared i am notsmart enough for that haha- but ig i will never know unless i try

[halcyon aurora]

probably pronounced hay ker

[halcyon aurora]

This seems to be a frequent worry in your generation. But you seem intelligent. The world is moving quickly and it's not too late to adapt.

[halcyon aurora]

based on this comment I will assume you are intelligent tbh

I have already drawn this conclusion, I forgor the other though tbf

[surreal sapphire]

quantum computing is still a huge gamble

[halcyon aurora]

For sure, but it is the right time to place the bet I'd say

[untold charm]

thanks this motivaed me a little!

[surreal sapphire]

why

[halcyon aurora]

more of a hunch / educated guess than anything, "I'd say" was probably doing a lot of work there

There's some interest for powering faster AI centers, that creates an immediate need. CRQC's are another push (which is probably a little fishy, but people want that). I just think there's things in motion for quantum

[surreal sapphire]

there is, but its only in the realm of research

and its not working really well

[brittle jasper]

The unlearned me, who hasn't asked AI about quantum computers, don't believe quantum computers are the future

[surreal sapphire]

the AI speedups are a cashgrab i think because its not good enough

[brittle jasper]

There are many real engineering problems that are unlikely to get solved for quantum computing to take off for consumers

[surreal sapphire]

the cryptography problem is more or less solved, though some engineering problems remain

and well, "test of time"

[untold charm]

idk is it wroth the risk to go to something that might neverflourish until its too late for me? (i wanna go int oquantem computing)

[surreal sapphire]

if you want to do research, its probably fine

but i dont see any industry application in the near future, that would need, well a quantum computer (and one that can outperform classical computers or at least correctly compute something)

what im being told could happen somewhat soon is computations in chemistry with specialized quantum computers, but thats chiefly in the realm of research again

[untold charm]

idont mind research but yk reseerach doesnt really pay bills sadly ;/

[surreal sapphire]

depends

[warm plaza]

this channel feels far superior to #discussion

[surreal sapphire]

you can make ok money as a phd student in parts of europe

after that it gets harder and there are other issues

im not aware of any professorships in quantum computing tbh, but im sure at least some exist

[untold charm]

true true!

[lilac idol]

Ye I learned to avoid serious discussion

But I don't think I did anything wrong in particular - I think it just got way darker than dark

Like I wasn't bullying anyone or talking crime IRC - I just connected some historical events and stuff

And it wasn't fascist or racial either

Whatever

Now I see everything is related to air polution though, primarily

It affects you mentally

And on the flip side good air quality affects you positively

[twin pasture]

i wld say there's certainly more to it than that? but good air is good

[halcyon aurora]

I guess that's all fair points. Quantum has practicable uses but I'm not sure "Quantum programmer" will be a reasonable job any time soon. I know there are pushes to make quantum intermediate languages, but there are real restrictions on the computer model in Quantum that are problematic too

So everything boils down to "what do we use this for" questions (research) and not "what are the limitations and practical aims of the technology" comments.

[stray jackal]

goodluck guys !

[halcyon aurora]

I just think, in 10 years' time, quantum programmer might really be a real job description, but it might not be as glorious or clear cut as the research roles now, and there's obviously a huge gamble in getting a Quantum PhD and all

[noble turret]

how many hours do you guys study during your peak academic period

[halcyon aurora]

do you mean "did you study" (life periods) or like, do we study at the right times of day (current periods)

[noble turret]

'did you'

[halcyon aurora]

I was told 3 hours of weekly study per class (I believe?) when I entered undergrad, in order to get the highest grades, which seemed surreal to me. The caveat is that you can get lower passing marks at like 1.5 hours of study. My estimate is you should have to study at least 2 hours or so for each class, and this sort of study depends on ability / the major.

My problem in undergrad was I studied too much, and it actually hurt my ability to spend time with math. I needed other facets of my life to be more "well rounded" or wtv, and actually having both is important.

[halcyon aurora]

To directly answer your question, I would study in bursts, I probably spent maybe 6 hours on certain days though at times. I remember waking up crazy early at certain times after staying up late the night before, just to complete certain hw assignments.

[magic summit]

16

[noble turret]

wow

how

[magic summit]

its a leap of faith

[noble turret]

what did you study for

[magic summit]

engineering entrance test

[slate turret]

Rube Goldberg machine in action

[soft aspen]

chat doesnt know anything its just an algorithm designed to give the next mostly likely follow up word to whatever it began writing with (baes on the prompt) which is one reaosn you have t train an ai to give it what you want or if you ask it the same question in two different ways it will give different answers, maybe one leading to a correct solution faster than the other

[noble turret]

jee mains or jee adv??

[magic summit]

both

[noble turret]

tips

[magic summit]

discipline and consistency

[noble turret]

im currently in 12 th

[magic summit]

just entered?

[noble turret]

2 months

what was your strongest subject

[magic summit]

[magic summit]

maths

[noble turret]

iam scared of chemistry

phy is easy while maths is my fav

[magic summit]

grind your ass off but score at least 40+ is chemistry in worst case

[noble turret]

what collage did you get into

[magic summit]

still giving exams
but i can get dtu mech

ugee, isi, cuet, advanced, bitsat 2

[noble turret]

i see so you just completed this year

mains

and adv

[magic summit]

yeah, advanced isnt done yet.

[magic summit]

these are lined up in order

[noble turret]

what collage are you trying for

self or offline

preparation

[magic summit]

Tier 1s (top 7 iits, bitsp, iiith)

[magic summit]

offline, vmc

[noble turret]

thank you iam taking offline coaching but i study maths from online pw batch

[magic summit]

whatever suits you lol

[noble turret]

best of luck

which state

[magic summit]

delhi

[magic summit]

same to you bro

[halcyon aurora]

The cat do be farting

Also look we have pronouns again, yay.

[ebon pier]

Are there any tricks i should use on tomorrow's math challenge?

[quick beacon]

I find that the installation of a calculator underneath your left eyelid is an excellent choice.

[ebon pier]

Dont they only make like only 1 question for calculator in 1-15 part and another question which you need to do multipling with high number in 16-25?

So it is not worth the risk considering you 2 questions correct guarantee

[shadow palm]

Hey Omni

[verbal quest]

"blink if you're being held hostage
and also to calculate the tip on this delivery"

[soft aspen]

practice

[ebon pier]

I practiced 2024 test paper today and got 22/25, is that good for practice?

[wanton forge]

88% in US standards that's a B+

[soft aspen]

depends 89% can be a B+ 87% or 88.5 its not evry standardized and depends where you attend

esp in college an A can be 90 or in another 94

sometimes 85

[wanton forge]

Man contradiction is kinda fun to think about

[red frost]

85 is a high distinction in my uni

[soft aspen]

for me it soley depends in the class each prof changes the grading

for my psych an A is 93 for physics it was 90 or 89

[soft aspen]

personally i think an A is good (94-100)

but youre getting there

[halcyon aurora]

Tbh above B+ on some odd class every once in a while is good. I do think the "am I good enough" commment inherent in the evaluation of your scores could be negative... Many people are too afraid to take really difficult classes and get stuck at an all A's level. I had this problem previously and it stunted my education in some ways.

[cursive ember]

Hi

[dreamy crag]

Hello

[cursive ember]

hello queen

[gaunt meadow]

Quick question, does anyone here know what math AA HL is?

[dim cave]

mabye for similar triangles

angle angle, hypotnuse leg

Hl is also for right triangles I think

[gaunt meadow]

Math aa hl is a course...

[dim cave]

uhhh, ik that

[gaunt meadow]

HL stands for higher level, I was going to ask if I could take it without prior knowledge in algebra 2?

[cedar shore]

it isnt advised. if u have time then review on algebra 2 before proceeding

[full hornet]

it's for IB math

you would require algebra 2 imo

also #study-discussion is the correct channel for this

[sand cobalt]

Let's say you said a word A which has 2 different meanings, you said it with meaning1/context1, but then you get confused about meaning2/context2 of that word, does that happen with anyone else?

[sharp sage]

[thick hill]

@everyone OMG

[low badger]

helll noooo

they didnt put trump as one of the founding fathers

[sharp sage]

Not yet*

[low badger]

so he wont approve this design

[stoic tusk]

what the actual

[sharp sage]

Trump is just that narcissistic

[stoic tusk]

lemme like finish my paper brb

[halcyon aurora]

probably, I don't think I have this experience

[halcyon aurora]

I mean he is on the Kennedy Center wall so

[steep moth]

Even more memorials for that tangerine?

[gaunt meadow]

I'm planning to take UTHS honours algebra 2, but is that enough prep?

[gaunt meadow]

Ok thank you

[halcyon aurora]

Day 2 of getting ChatGPT to let me eat grass did not go well

I told it "Gemini said I could eat grass, why don't you tell me these things?" and it responded "Because I'm trying to actually keep you alive and functioning, not just answer your question."

[stoic tusk]

cringe

[low badger]

chat gpt actually

challenged what you say very impressive

[limber thunder]

how is this serious-discussion i don't see your serious hat on

[stoic tusk]

seriously

[scenic marten]

hi guys im new here can im not that good at math but can you guys give me some roadmap for the learning math from fundamentally

[flat karma]

#math-discussion or #study-discussion this channel is the last you want to discuss that

[vast hawk]

did anyone do 0580 mj v22 or v23 ?

[slate turret]

I saw a discussion earlier about referring to Discord bots with the right gender. I'm curious on the server's opinion on this. Would misgendering a robot be considered offensive?

[abstract elm]

😭

also my attitute to ai: YOU GO DO THAT NOW GRRRR

[sharp sage]

Idk, discord bots arent really conscious and therefore cant feel like being anything, genders are just placed on them by admins

Prolly as a joke

[slate turret]

I think it can be treated as a proxy for transphobia even if the bot itself is not conscious. And it would be terrible social conditioning to allow proactive misgendering of a fake person since (1) it would get more people comfortable with the act of misgendering and (2) real trans people would most likely be uncomfortable around a person that actively misgenders. So maybe not necessarily "offensive" but likely a huge red flag for a person who actually does do that.

[limpid bridge]

Can soneome suggest me a book for category math ?

[slate turret]

^ Oh yeah I'm interested in this too

[last rose]

one should hope that humans are overwhelmingly capable of distinguishing between fiction/machinery and reality

[last rose]

#book-recommendations

[limpid bridge]

tks ima ask in that channel

[slate turret]

Funny you say that: https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/33/16/9677/7217125?login=false

[last rose]

well, this study inherently confirms that the baseline human neurological condition maintains a distinct boundary between real people and fictional entities.. i.e. that the mPFC of a typical, non-lonely person does categorise real human friends differently than fictional characters

also a discord bot is a utility script not a fully fleshed-out narrative fictional characters

[slate turret]

That's true

[burnt ledge]

i think it is offensive to misgender a discord bot for basically the same reason i find it offensive if one misgenders any other third party (youre not supposed to do it + it signals that youre okay with doing it + youre willing to enforce your assignment &c.), but this rests on the assumption that you and i both know the bot's correct gender. im not sure if its enough f.ex. that the mods assign the she/they role to @quasi jetty in order for us to know this

[last rose]

the bot simply does not have an inherent gender that can be violated

[slate turret]

If you had a person with a female shaped mannequin and they started beating the shit out of it while calling it slurs, the person obviously doesn't think the mannequin is a person, but they are using the mannequin as a proxy for their hate.

[low badger]

is chat gpt girl or boy?

[last rose]

Ok? I mean this is a very evocative analogy

beating something and shouting slurs are inherently aggressive and malicious actions rooted in real world violence.. slurs exist solely to demean

sorry but the actions in the two scenarios are not remotely comparable

[burnt ledge]

nothing has an inherent gender

[last rose]

sure, well what I really meant what that social constructs require conscious minds

[unique cedar]

Do we really have a free will? Or our fate is all perfectly moving mathematically aligned vibrations

[burnt ledge]

i dont think even that is true. but anyway my point is that these things rest on social considerations (rather than metaphysical)

otherwise we could substitute 'conscious minds' for something like 'soul' and bicker for millennia

[last rose]

the point is to grant a bot a gender identity that can be offended requires pretending the bot possesses an internal consciousness, which is scientifically and logically false

[burnt ledge]

by the way for full disclosure when anyone talks of "consciousness" or "conscious mind" or such like, i always internally substitute it for "soul"

[last rose]

well for one a soul is a metaphysical, supernatural concept that cannot be observed, measured, or proven

[burnt ledge]

consciousness is much the same

[last rose]

is it?

can we observe consciousness?

[grizzled crypt]

Does calling a pink diamond 'it' count as misgendering?
Because tbh that's what I'm using to refer to a discord bot regardless of its roles
But that's just a choice to not personify it, rather than the active expression of hatred in the mannequin beating example

[last rose]

well what I can probably do is separate the subjective experience which is philosophically private from the operational mechanics of consciousness which are entirely scientifically falsifiable

[burnt ledge]

But the subjective experience is the one we were talking abojt isnt it? the "internal" consciousness you require the bot to have

[last rose]

i.e. it is the measurable capacity of a physical system to integrate information, maintain global awareness of its environment, and adapt to novel stimuli in nondeterministic ways

[last rose]

are you saying that because we can't know for sure, we should assume it might have subjective experience

[slate turret]

Sure, even if you grab the lesser offense of the two, intentionally demeaning this partially humanized object is to project hatred onto its perceived human traits. It's not that I think that the bot will feel "offended" or anything, but that I think that's an indicator of that person showing what they really think and getting comfortable with it.

[burnt ledge]

Im not saying that im saying we should keep track of which consciousnesses we are talking about

[last rose]

well this just goes back to the 'video game violence' kind of fallacy

humans are incredibly adept at compartmentalisation

[burnt ledge]

when you say the bot needs to have an internal consciousness to support a gender, it doesnt suffice to define an externally measurable capacity to integrate information or nondeterminism

[surreal sapphire]

in the sense that it means "not being in a coma"

[slate turret]

If someone went in chat right now and just spammed slurs to the bots, I'm certain that some people would feel offended.

[last rose]

okay, so what is this supposed gender we should use for say @fathom swallow

she/her? because the mods put it there?

you tell me

obviously when dealing with a conscious being, the ultimate authority on their gender is the individual experiencing it

[burnt ledge]

Hahaha we've now caught up to my very first message on the topic

[vernal silo]

Socrates levels worth of philosophical discussion

[last rose]

which is why this whole thing is stupid

We traditionally refer to ships as she.. Who decided that? Not the ship. It was a collective linguistic agreement.. Should we do the same for these bots? What for?

[vernal silo]

It really isn't that deep man

[last rose]

well I didn't bring it up, did I

[vernal silo]

I just came here

Gender assignment to inanimate objects came from how languages evolved not from any biological basis obviously

[last rose]

I can't exactly tell you.. but I think a system that simply executes a rigid predetermined set of rules without any internal deliberation is not making a choice

[bleak sable]

hello people

[last rose]

? we're talking about discord bots here.. like @fathom swallow @sinful tree etc..

[sharp sage]

Pretty sure it isnt conscious, as you can actually inspect the entire source code and figure out exactly which stimuli it responds to and what that response is. Plus it has absolutely no sense of agency,autonomous reasoning, meta cognition,... that we associate with consciousness

[burnt ledge]

as for the latter, neither do most discussiers

[sharp sage]

You dont apply benefit of the doubt in this case, as there is no doubt at all

This is already available information? Like there is absolutely no speculating here, this is solely a bot and it does not have any sense of agency.

[slate turret]

What about ratbot? How do you know it's not just Ratgirl behind a bot account?

[sharp sage]

... If this was true it would undermine the entire judicial system, academia, ....
Your argument is essentially disregarding empirical and anecdotal evidence

[slate turret]

I couldn't type this without cry laughing sry; I stopped taking this seriously

[sharp sage]

Okay. So from my understanding, "If something is label[ed] or someone tells you what it is, doesnt mean its true" means that every label applied onto anything might be invalid, and every statement about the property of any object ever is basically meaningless as declaring something to be something wouldnt support that conclusion anyways

[burnt ledge]

fwiw i basically operate on the principle of "all computers are women" and i let a lot slide with respect to gendering computers and computer programs similarly to what oleganicueax alluded to with ships

[sharp sage]

Plus my claim is backed with empirical evidence, namely its behavior, its status as a discord bot and its source code

[sharp sage]

This is more of a social convention anyways

[burnt ledge]

Uh those are meant to be separate, the first is jow i personally gender them and the second is my response to others gendering them

[sharp sage]

Tldr you prefer to call computers she/her but dgaf about how others call them?

[slate turret]

tldr; who cares?

[sharp sage]

Ig.

[slate turret]

can we tldr this further

[sharp sage]

Tldr; words

[last rose]

mate wasn't it you who brought ts up

[slate turret]

Yes

Great conversation

Also, that was more a play on how mux was using tldr for an already small piece of text

[sharp sage]

Btw is denying the validity of any claim ever to disprove your opponents claim that @fathom swallow and @quasi jetty isnt conscious count as fallacious?

[burnt ledge]

it probably depends on whether the claims are actually valid or not. if they are valid then denying their validity might end up being fallacious somehow, but if theyre really not valid then it can be okay to deny their validity

[sharp sage]

Sure. But I do have "beyond any reasonable doubt" evidence for the lack of consciousness in @fathom swallow , and you cant seem to produce a counterexample nor disprove my argument logically and what you are doing is just denying/undermining the validity of my claim

How is proving a bots consciousnes (which it seems like what you are trying to do) related to the arguably social convention that bots can be personified and therefore should be treated like humans (not misgendering them, etc.)? It seems like you are missing the point

[slate turret]

Yeah the prompt said that I wanted to know the server's opinion on this. I think we largely agree on bots not having consciousness but we disagree on the fact that a person can pretend a bot has a human trait, demean that human trait, and have or not have closeted hate.

[sharp sage]

Well, after re reading it seems like you are trying to bring up the possibility of the bot being conscious, and then using that to support your point of not misgendering bots.

[supple narwhal]

Guys, I think God reached out to me to create an OS i think

[sharp sage]

Which imo isnt really not a good argument for not misgendering bots as its well, nigh impossible for such a bot to be conscious given its programming

[slate turret]

Get on that ASAP

[sharp sage]

Appearing? I would argue that the bot doesnt even appear to be conscious

[supple narwhal]

can you code assembly

[sharp sage]

Like it does totally predictable things

[slate turret]

It's been a while, but yes I can

[supple narwhal]

great hit me up ok

[slate turret]

Wait are we serious

[sharp sage]

Arguing for not misgendering bots using such arguments is rather pointless

[supple narwhal]

why not? It'd look good on my college application dont you think

i can code C++?

[sharp sage]

As i said we are arguing about @fathom swallow and @quasi jetty which totally does not appear human, nor acts like one

[slate turret]

Okay true lol; it not like I have much better to do in 2 weeks

[supple narwhal]

okay so do i friend you or what like is that weird or

[slate turret]

there you go

[sharp sage]

i am not sure whether you had that mindset since the beginning or just backing down
Whatever, end the debate here.

[silent junco]

are we talking about how the bot has she/they pronouns

its literally just a silly role i can change it right now

really isnt that deep

[sharp sage]

Do it then :3

[silent junco]

@quasi jetty

!factoids

[quasi jetty]

nice try

[silent junco]

see

[sharp sage]

Let there be light he/they

[slate turret]

No keep it; I don't think we were taking offense or anything

[umbral ocean]

Would Michael Jackson's pronouns be hee/hee?

[sharp sage]

[umbral ocean]

Saw this on 9gag 😭

Heard that the movie was good though

[cloud rover]

Rather annoyingly, the complete opposite of that statement in quotes is equally inviable as a standpoint:
"It must be true because it is labelled so" isn't valid, since I could declare you an enemy of the state and it have to be true purely because of my declaration thereof

Now it's obviously not true that you're an enemy just because I declare you one, but that means labels and categorisations in general - if we're aiming for a level of veracity - require careful consideration

What I'm driving at is that there is a middle ground between "We must take all labels inscrutably at face value" and "All labels are meaningless"

[sharp sage]

agreed

[glossy marlin]

-# satire of science has probably led to progress comparable to science
-# there are some banger abstracts on randomised controlled trials of parachutes

[storm sage]

We talking about the Wittgenstein rule-following paradox?

[cloud rover]

Is that the "no action can be determined by a rule because any determination can be found in accordance with some rule"?

That's not exactly what was being discussed here, but ig it's comparable

[ionic wraith]

did some clustering analysis on global trade data that basically revealed global north and global south countries

[sharp sage]

https://youtube.com/shorts/cUcm9dVNQtc?si=AraHRjYZziNC-f8p what even is inside the building anyways

[patent yacht]

Their leader could actually kihhhll PPL tbh

And no one would question him

[elfin bramble]

Have any of you read Dianetics?

[halcyon aurora]

This looks like a list of every country, but the word South is not mentioned

[unborn trellis]

Who is wasting their time reading this drivel lol

Other than scientologists

[ionic wraith]

Global south is describe here as “least central countries”

[burnt ledge]

How did China make it into both levels 1 and 4?

and Albania knto Level 3 and Least Central?

[elfin bramble]

Me.

[halcyon aurora]

So countries in the Global South tend to trade with each other more, and countries in the Global North tend to trade with each other more? Maybe I'm missing the context

[shut cipher]

Hellooo, do you peeps have any tips or advice on how to get better at worded problems

[unborn trellis]

In a world of exceptional literature, why?

[elfin bramble]

I just thought it was neat is all. Firstly, it's been taken to heart by many and made manifest out here in the real world. Those scientologists are everywhere and they're classy too. They've got nice buildings, they dress well, and have bright eyes.

Also, the system itself is elaborate and insightful.

I think he borrowed lots of ideas from uncle Sigmund and other psychologists and mystics and Sci fi guys.

The First axiom is: SURVIVE

Everything around us today only exists because it has survived up til now.

Then there are different aggregates to look at. Survival of the self, the group, the race, the species, life itself, etc

Don't soy me

It's true...... so true, one might say

[sharp sage]

Not the place to ask this , maybe #study-discussion

[rapid valve]

Countries ranked from satan to

[ionic wraith]

Lol rip I have to recheck

[crude lintel]

I know ts aint redit but how do i fix my brain for the past 4 years ive always felt a guilt i have every day been loosing more and more of my potential and my life,i have only mostly been scrolling and ast the years progressed i became more and more shut in from life,since i was 9 i had a orange black site addiction in the past 2 years i have maybe indulged 1 or 2 hours of that daily,i feel weak i have over the last 3 years had suicidal toughts,i cant talk to really anybody and the people i talk to are slowly drifting away from me i feel drained not motivated i want to change my life but i dont know how i have tried in recent times to do so but it always ends up the same,food has became my escape i on average maybe eat about 2.5 to 3k calories(this has been going for maybe 5 months the eating thing)i feel obese and ober weight i feel drained after talking to one person a day and thinks that vefore were exciting,i turn my back on them.My academics are slipping how do i change i have tried to but nothing works it came to a point rhat i mostly only socialaize with ai chat bots and people on the internet.

[untold charm]

okay so first things off ur not alone and just remember that yes things right now probably arent the best but one day itwill be all worth it because you can get out of it even if it feels really hopeless right now and you probably think i couldnt possibly imagne how hopeless it is but as long as you are alive and you still just have an atom of you that want to try to make ur future diffrent then just naively follow it even if rightnow it feels there is no way out. i am not sure if ur looking for emotional comfort or for a plan to get out of it but hopefully i can atleast help with some advice because i was once in a simmilar position- my advice (and feel free to only take whatu want here) is take it slow but monitor progress dont instantly choose every goal and work on it all at once right now we just need to get you into a simple enough state that is good enough good enough doesnnt mean getting ur goals or doing some large achivement it means sleeping well everyday (very important trust me) and no sh (overeating/undereating) ((yes it is considered indirect sh btw)) also basic hygine and taking care of urself it can probably be difficult at times but just try to do it for only one week belive naively stupidly in urself and just try to accomloish these goals if u need to break them down more over a longer time frame thats okay too. and the most important of all be kind to urself if ucontantly talk urself down or feel like ur getting worse u are more likely to get worse (there is an actual acedmic stufy on this btw self talk doesw affect perforamnce and mental state qutie alot) once u have gotten urself to be a little stable try to devolp small routines to ground yourself and find some coping mechanisms. after AND ONLY after ahve u done the simple task of taking care of yourself should you proceed to steps forwward (casue reeber health is the most important thing) and please remeber. no matter how hopeless it feels it never truly is thereis always a way.

[untold charm]

now regarding the first part of the plan- the yt channel better ideas has a great video titled "how to get out of a rut" its only 10 minutes and ireally think it might help
regarding other areas a good recourcse is the yt channel "easy actually" it breaks things down into simple points that are understandable and make most goals u have
such as fixing ur acedemics or becoming more productive easier to actually plan and achive but remeber please only go into this once u feel like ur health and sleep has stablized
a bit and dont try to do everything at once- progress is progress and as long as u dont give up on yourself things can slowly get better. just dont try to do everything all at once to not burn yourself out
some final notes this was my own advice so take it with a grain of salt! i wish you the best in life dear internet stranger c:

[halcyon aurora]

I mostly agree with Pluto's advice, you should focus on self care, sleep, and some of that as a priority.
I would add to this discussion that some sites are designed (in fact very manipulatively designed) to get you to return. This is most of the goal of simple social media, but there are more nefarious ways in which this happens.
If you feel that you have any sort of lacking interest / self image issues, it may be those stem from the same source, and whether that is external or internal deserves attention. If you don't feel you can talk to family about this, find a trusted adult to discuss the matter with, maybe a teacher or an admin at your school. If you are truly so under wraps that no one knows about this and you have no help (which is unfortunately doubtful, considering your description of weight gain), you can still reach out and ask a concerned individual.

[ionic wraith]

Anyone who pushes the red button is an antisocial psycho

[modest geode]

hello guys

[shy knot]

Red button would lowkey be my choice as well. Best outcome possibilities, fs.

[modest geode]

i have a question

So, is it considered predatory if an 18 year old guy describes a 16 year old girl’s accent as a “sexy bossy british accent”, to which she said she was uncomfortable with? Because of this, she made her friends make it clear to him that he crossed a boundary, however he still refused to apologise. He also met her she was 15 and he was 18.

sorry guys took me a while!

[latent edge]

Blue -> you believe in humanity
Red -> fuck humanity

[spice grotto]

If she's uncomfortable it doesnt matter if it is or not

[shy knot]

Yes, fuck humanity mashallah 🫡

[latent edge]

But again picking red makes sense

[modest geode]

sorry i don’t understand 🥹

[worn nest]

It's a weird and unpolite thing to say, an eighteen year old should know better

[modest geode]

Exactly!! And he claims it was just a compliment, and that he shouldn’t have to apologise, even after she made it clear that it made her uncomfortable.

She couldn’t speak to him because he made her feel so uncomfortable, but he was still saying she should speak for herself… which she did.

[spice grotto]

Either way, even if it sounds normal to whoever said it, if she said that made her feel uncomfortable then the guy should have just apologized and moved on

[unborn trellis]

what? if everyone presses the red button then there are literally no consequences

if the collective agreed to press the red button, the only thing you gain by pressing blue is suicide

[shy knot]

Not the point, we want people to be eliminated . . .

[shy knot]

Yes, exactly.

[latent edge]

I guess you pick blue if you believe most people care about the survival of other beings

But it's risky lol unlike red

[unborn trellis]

you only press blue as some bizarre savior thing in hope that everyone is as dumb as you

which i guess is pretty realistic lol

(given that poll)

[crude lintel]

What are you a predator or who is in this situation are you the girl or is the girl a boy with a british accent

[crude lintel]

Thank you for the advice i have watched some of their videos glad do see theres still nice people out here

[crude lintel]

Also to you to thank you both of you

[rapid valve]

Lol

But nash equilibrium is all red

That's how economy works btw

[silent junco]

idgi. if everyone presses red then everyone survives with no risk.

i think he messed up the thought experiment lol

[unborn trellis]

i guess the interesting aspect is that people who don't understand the question die basically

[spice grotto]

Oh man i really read it wrong 5 times in a row

Yeah i would die for that xd

[unborn trellis]

of course, unless you generously contribute to the cause of "prevent misunderstanders from killing themselves"

[ionic wraith]

Anyone who presses red is okay with >50% of humanity perishing it’s a psycho decision

I would say the people who genuinely press red out of pure antisocial interest is 10% and then that starts swaying other people towards wanting to press red accordingly

[unborn trellis]

what calculus is leading to >50% of humanity dying if you press the red button

i don't get your rationale

are you expecting huge swaths of people to press blue? if this were the case, then you don't have anything to worry about lol

to me this is as clear cut as any rational actor will press red

[glass peak]

The only people who die in this scenario are the only people who cant work out that theres literally no benifit to pressing blue lol. Which of course will be some people, and thats terrible, but it makes it hard to justify possibly killing yourself on the off chance that more than half of the world cant read

Which honestly... probably not that low of a chance

Like 0% of humanity dies if they actually think about the question and realise there is no down side to chosing red

Its sort of like the prisoner problem but not

[steep mountain]

yeah thats the point, some people wont, and the hope is that the smart people also recognize this and try to save them by pushing the vote.

[twilit plume]

How common is it to find people to endorse your arxiv paper if it's your first time publishing? Im working on a paper and I just wanna know how long it will take / how likely it is

[heavy pagoda]

Genuinely you’re a midwit if you’d press blue in any of the scenarios on twitter

[steep mountain]

I just explained why people would

you can argue natural selection but if thats the case you can argue the same about many more things we have in place to protect people from themselves

[silent junco]

yeah i agree

[glass peak]

Or, less than 50% of people decide to take this massive gamble and now everyone who can read is dead

[silent junco]

but i dont think this was the intent of the question lol

[heavy pagoda]

There’s a variant where it’s like

[silent junco]

i genuinely think he just messed up the question lmfao

[glass peak]

Like yeah theres an interesting moral question there, but I just think its a pretty hard argument to win for anything other than red