voice-chat-text-1

[delicate wren]

I'm just remembering all the names I mentioned Rust as before

and ASGI and tower would be a pair for the underlying interface

same for Pydantic and serde

@vale tinsel I wrote something like 3 lines and forgot everything by now

so only heard of it

I had a corresponding kernel installed for Jupyter

(so just tried it there)

Jupyter supports way more than just Python

at some point I installed every kernel I reasonably could

which did include C, Rust and Ruby

Jupyter Kernel

JupyterLab is just a style for the front-end

JupyterHub is a more managed server

[misty sinew]

@vale tinsel What do you do?

Uh

So do you get paid well?

Good to know!

[delicate wren]

though actually for a proper pairing this would be axum+aide

[delicate wren]

and this would be serde+schemars

in both cases the second thing is responsible for JSON Schemas

[misty sinew]

I think objective c differ because it has object

[delicate wren]

Objective C is nearly dead officially and factually, unlike C++

[misty sinew]

I do know C lang

[delicate wren]

Objective C is a recognised-to-be-failed attempt at adding OOP to C

replaced by Swift

whereas C with Classes, now known as C++, at least got popular

areas where C++ failed are more to do with bigger scope and some theoretical basis

Apple used it before

[misty sinew]

I heard about it and it is confusing to me

[delicate wren]

Apple created Swift in part to replace Objective C

[vale tinsel]

I talk shit about apple but they create good cpus

[vale tinsel]

Hmm really now

[misty sinew]

True

[delicate wren]

Swift, allegedly, is a good language

but integrated too much into the ecosystem

[misty sinew]

Names of CPU are not trick as well.

like Ryzen 5600H with xyz graphics

or intel ultra elit blah blah

[vale tinsel]

Lol

[delicate wren]

meanwhile Apple: just borrowing naming conventions from the army

[vale tinsel]

It's marketing, and it works

[delicate wren]

- what are we going to call this rifle?
- eh, I don't know, M1
- what are we going to call this tank?
- eh, I don't know, M1
- what are we going to call this processor?
- eh, I don't know, M1

[vale tinsel]

So true 😹

[misty sinew]

I mean how?
Most of user prob don't even remember about the name

but apple makes catchy name

everyone know about m1 m3 m4

[glad turtle]

you guys can say whatever you want about Apple, but it's still the ONLY company that owns the entire stack, hardware and software and OS.. end-to-end.

[delicate wren]

no, Oxide exists

[vale tinsel]

A Genius admire simplicity and idiots admires complexity

[glad turtle]

Oxide is still in its childhood no?

[delicate wren]

already selling

[glad turtle]

can ppl buy a laptop/desktop from them?

or just servers

[delicate wren]

no laptops, no desktops, no individual servers;
only full racks

[glad turtle]

interesting choice. and what OS do these racks run?

[delicate wren]

the main CPUs run Oxide-maintained fork of illumos

auxiliary processors run Oxide's own microkernel OS

[glad turtle]

and they only intend their stuff to be a virtualization platform?

[delicate wren]

on-prem cloud

[glad turtle]

right

and they're actually able to survive on the market?

[misty sinew]

I mean oxide is trying its best to achieve

but most likely they will fail

[vale tinsel]

tf is oxide?

[delicate wren]

afaik they're privately financed above their current needs, we don't know the details

[delicate wren]

https://oxide.computer/

[misty sinew]

Company reinventing a wheel (computer)

[delicate wren]

they did manage to successfully boot without a BIOS/UEFI software

which is already quite an achievement with x86_64 being the insane mess it is

[misty sinew]

I mean they are making good progress...

but the age of Quantum computer is approaching

[delicate wren]

most of the workloads are incompatible with quantum

[misty sinew]

big corp is already investing in Quantum computer technology

[glad turtle]

remarkable and maybe useful considering CVE-2025-7027

[vale tinsel]

Love this

[delicate wren]

if the current wheel is square-shaped, probably worth the effort of making it round

[glad turtle]

I guess UEFI is now super-complicated. But it's interesting that they're showing it's not needed at all..

[delicate wren]

AMD were surprised

[delicate wren]

quantum is about vectorisable computation

if you can move something from single threaded to multithreaded to multithreaded with AVX to GPU,
maybe there are possibilities to then move it to quantum

but, for a particular task, can you?

giving up all ifs

giving up all whiles and fors

[misty sinew]

I mean who would not like to have a better computer?

[delicate wren]

quantum is not a better computer

[glad turtle]

so branchless and loopless..

[delicate wren]

then also giving up all function pointers

[misty sinew]

Who knows it could be!

[delicate wren]

it can't

[glad turtle]

few things qualify as both branchless and loopless..

[delicate wren]

there are very specific requirements for what workloads can be performed on a entanglement-enabled processing unit

you need very large intermediate space of values for small inputs and outputs

everything needs to be expressed in terms of, tbf quite simple, linear algebra

I doubt you can use this to speed up JSON parsing considerably

quantum isn't about getting a better or faster computer

it's about solving very specific problems that a regular computer can't solve at all

(assuming reasonable time constraints)

[delicate wren]

that is for now stuck with AVX at best

[misty sinew]

If Quantum Computer can replace most server, it would soon be available for commerical use

[delicate wren]

it can't

in what way is quantum computer better than regular one?

apart from expense write-offs and money laundering or whatever

a very expensive refrigerator

[misty sinew]

Quantum Computer can easily breach the security of the traditional computer.
It make more sense to use Quantum Computer to defend such a breach.

[delicate wren]

that is a very specific usecase

also, no, not any encryption is broken by known quantum algorithms

SSH are already rolling out Shor's-resistant ciphers

rip SIDH

SIDH doesn't count

[misty sinew]

https://www.livescience.com/technology/computing/chinese-scientists-claim-they-broke-rsa-encryption-with-a-quantum-computer-but-theres-a-catch

[delicate wren]

once again: this is not applicable to JSON parsing and whatever else regular server mostly do

[misty sinew]

But yet it showcase the potential of Quantum Computer

[delicate wren]

unrelated to the point

most of the workloads are quantum-incompatible

that's why we shouldn't get all locked up into another hype thing

[misty sinew]

Hmm

[delicate wren]

you can't replace a car with a rocket

[misty sinew]

understood

[delicate wren]

with Shor's being a metaphorical ICBM

[misty sinew]

So why do they invest in Quantum Computer?

[delicate wren]

mostly this

also quantum-enabled cryptography

certain things are impossible with regular CPU

not really because of the CPU

[misty sinew]

So to test and create better algo for security?

[delicate wren]

but because it relies on entanglement across very long distances

[delicate wren]

it's not entirely about algorithms

[misty sinew]

uh..

I think I was wrong about Quantum Computer

I should have understand the practical extend of Quantum Computer before discussing further

[delicate wren]

quantum cryptography very seriously relies on you actually sharing qubits between two parties

which is quite useful for provably safe procedures (there's very little determinism left by that point, so not really an algorithm)

there does exist an unbreakable encryption with both regular CPUs and quantum procedures

you can implement it in Python (and many other languages) with one symbol

^

from what I remember, quantum basically just off-loads the actual encryption logic to regular processors

so only the key sharing step is quantum

[delicate wren]

!e

key = 426
data = 111
encrypted = key ^ data
print(encrypted)
decrypted = key ^ encrypted
print(decrypted)

[coarse hearth]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | 453
002 | 111

[delicate wren]

there is a slight issue with this:
you need a very long key

and whether that's delivered by pigeon or qubits -- that's a separate question

[delicate wren]

!e

key = 426
data = 11111111111111111111
encrypted = key ^ data
print(encrypted)
print("whoops")

[coarse hearth]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | 11111111111111110765
002 | whoops

[misty sinew]

interesting.

[delicate wren]

this is how stream ciphers work

and I think no one is planning to replace them yet

(quantum mostly targets asymmetric encryption instead)

[misty sinew]

I got to learn abut stream cipher

cool

[delicate wren]

AES or some variation of chacha

[misty sinew]

Why do they have silly names?

chacha

[delicate wren]

chacha is based on salsa iirc

dance names

[misty sinew]

confusing

[delicate wren]

funny how so far the only thing I had to look up was Shor's name

[misty sinew]

who ever name those algo is naming as if it is a pet

personal name

[delicate wren]

symmetric, quantum-irrelevant: AES, xchacha20, most of Feistel ciphers (unless you really messed up the hash function)
asymmetric, broken by Shor's algorithm: DSA, DH, RSA, ECDSA, ECDH, and everything else based on simple fields
total loser: SIDH/SIKE -- aimed for quantum resistance, broken on a laptop in an hour

asymmetric, seems to be alive: lattice encryption (I can't remember any specific examples)

[delicate wren]

there was a talk about SIDH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLWgMyMKpYY

I did not remember what SIDH stood for

forgot the "singular" part

[misty sinew]

I think this is too much for me

I can't comprehend so many stuff

I got long way

[delicate wren]

this is absolutely not trivial to understand at first

I think it took me something like a year to get how RSA works

and total around 4 years for understanding it including key generation

[misty sinew]

You got big brain

[delicate wren]

the maths is interesting but still complicated

I now realise that it's actually not trivial at all to learn

I got very luck with school

[misty sinew]

You learnt about it in school?

https://tenor.com/view/-gif-4485294

[delicate wren]

we proved RSA in school at some point I think

(there was a note for a few from the class who did cryptography, including me, that this is RSA)

[misty sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/ducky-running-duckling-gif-6592449722211122643

I learn "nothing" from school

all I get to know is to be silent for hours

and hear yapping

[delicate wren]

we had no option for that at school

only almost happened to history lessons at university

currently watching this
https://youtu.be/kKbT0Vg3ISw

C++ is finally getting reflection, trying to understand what's happening out there

(I don't write C++ but I have to debug it)

[misty sinew]

@vale tinsel Hello

[vale tinsel]

Yes hello

[vale tinsel]

What did I miss

?

[misty sinew]

She explained about algo and limitation of Quantum

[vale tinsel]

Ohh we talking Cubits now

[misty sinew]

Ig not

[delicate wren]

qubits

[vale tinsel]

qubits

[misty sinew]

How fast can you type yuyaify..

[delicate wren]

I remember some game or whatever had "cubits" as currency

or something like that

[misty sinew]

You are pretty fast at typing

[vale tinsel]

Have you heard of Cat qubits?? @delicate wren

[delicate wren]

I only have a general knowledge of how quantum stuff works, I don't follow actual papers and other publications

(no, haven't heard)

[vale tinsel]

Me too, cat quibits is actually interesting

https://www.quera.com/glossary/cat-qubits

Basically a theory that a cat exists in 2 states alive and dead - at the same time

[delicate wren]

that short description from the embed doesn't explain much

[misty sinew]

See ya guys..
I'm epy

[delicate wren]

this doesn't help either

[vale tinsel]

Ait

[delicate wren]

Cat qubits, inspired by Schrödinger's cat, exist in two quantum states simultaneously, offering a unique balance in quantum error rates.
the important part

[vale tinsel]

Ahh I wanted it simple

[delicate wren]

so just a way to mitigate errors reliably

error handling/correction is the keyword there

[vale tinsel]

Ok got it

[runic valley]

yo

@thin lintel

[stuck bluff]

@gilded estuary👋

[runic valley]

hello opal

[stuck bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-holland-gif-19322704

[runic valley]

dr pepper tho

[thin lintel]

Dr. Pepper is sooo good but upsets my tummy

[runic valley]

that sucks

cus its so good

try cherry coke maybe instead

holy thats a lot

[delicate wren]

cola pile

[runic valley]

of cherry coke

holy shi

[misty sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-angry-tail-gif-27111355

[runic valley]

@thin lintel do u know any cyber

[stuck bluff]

Cyber...what?

[runic valley]

cyber sec

or red teaming offesnive or any bug bounty

[thin lintel]

Just basics

Mainly data related

And in EU

https://tenor.com/view/marsattack-her-alien-service-gif-21208075

[thin lintel]

https://youtu.be/47e_961OQWE?si=ytCpWOXnprQEMC6S

[edgy chasm]

dude i hate ads >_<

[delicate wren]

move to Russia, we have no ads on YouTube

[stuck bluff]

@keen lodge 👋

[edgy chasm]

not heavy metal, but its metal. this is DEFINITELY music.
https://open.spotify.com/track/1Ym3JWJG8HFJU2NbXavZ6a?si=8c96358afc464467

@fossil dust

[fossil dust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcWbsPtpZQU&ab_channel=WhisperingJazzMelody

[worn canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlcJQYON2Go

[delicate wren]

woohoo grindcore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRcGk7y-sBU

oh wait wrong one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNWDzZGmvpk

@tulip grail explanation: we're in VC 1

that was the point

[glad turtle]

@copper garden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwarepark_Hagenberg

[copper garden]

inria

[glad turtle]

@copper garden brb

[copper garden]

ight

[winged sand]

heyy

thank you

sadly i cannot speak as i have just joined rn

want to see one of my latest turtle drawing using python?

[copper garden]

Yes

[winged sand]

should i screen share

nvm i cant

[copper garden]

Can't screenshare either

[winged sand]

lemme send you a video

should i send it here?

[copper garden]

You can send it here

[winged sand]

aight

Nothing sick

Just normal

i have started python turtle last week

soo

[copper garden]

Nice

[delicate wren]

@heady wyvern isn't that Dmitry not Evgeniy on your pfp? or am I confusing with someone else

[fossil dust]

@reef granite can you beat this? Show us something flashy

[glad turtle]

Multiplayer leetcode battle challenges

• https://www.codebattle.in/ (multiple players, LC problems, poorly written, confirmed by Noodle)
• https://www.beatcode.dev/ (only 1v1, LC problems, works but only 1v1)
• https://leetrooms.com/ (requires chrome ext)
• https://www.cpduels.com/ (only for codeforces)
• https://code-duel.vercel.app/ (web server is improperly configured, doesn't allow login)

[glad turtle]

!user

[coarse hearth]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[glad turtle]

@buoyant crater guy puts postmarketos on an android phone and turns it into a home assistant server, he had to remove the battery and made a bypass for power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBOoDffWF0Y

[gentle fiber]

One of the sickest performances I've seen. Floor rocks here 🤘🏼

Heavy metal is music

[thin lintel]

I know!

The best kind

[gentle fiber]

Symphonic metal of course..

[midnight spindle]

hello

every body

where i can got "video " role

[proper ridge]

Any that you prefer?

[proper ridge]

Given temporarily by moderators.

[glad turtle]

all are down, maybe leetrooms works but never tried it

[proper ridge]

I see.

Well, let me know if you ever find an equivalent. I guess my interest was toxic to code battle hehe.

[winged sand]

waddup

[minor haven]

Hi

[burnt vault]

hi

[misty sinew]

@plush crescent Usually they use same code

for such a test

@zinc rain Which ide do you use?

I think he would de dead by 2050

vsauce is legend

https://tenor.com/view/txt-empty-venue-soobin-hand-gif-26238334

@main garden

@main garden You are just 18?

https://tenor.com/view/kevin-hart-kevin-hart-damn-gif-22709278

[delicate wren]

#voice-chat-text-0

[misty sinew]

I'm blind

[zinc rain]

VSCODIUM

A microsoft free , vs code

[misty sinew]

Got it

[tawny peak]

Heeyy

Budddy

[naive fjord]

!user

[coarse hearth]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[naive fjord]

sure

[unborn mason]

Hi guys

Does anyone want to code with me, if by any chance.

[odd cliff]

@unborn mason what ya making?

[naive fjord]

@hushed galleon

@hushed galleon watch this one

[edgy chasm]

plot cumulative strategy vc market returns

ez

[misty sinew]

#voice-chat-text-0

[misty sinew]

Analytics of Cumulative Returns

[fossil dust]

yeah its backtesting a trading strategy

[misty sinew]

My ba d

[hasty heart]

hi some one can give me some recommend how to leran paython from 0

[stuck bluff]

@warm patrol 👋

[warm patrol]

what

hi

[stuck bluff]

You joined voice chat. Just a greeting. 🙂

[warm patrol]

where are you from

[stuck bluff]

@fallen vessel 👋

[stuck bluff]

Australia.

[fallen vessel]

hello

[warm patrol]

great 👍

[fallen vessel]

@stuck bluff i need help mastering python

[stuck bluff]

We can chat about that if you'd like.

[fallen vessel]

sure thnx

[stuck bluff]

Do you have any specific questions?

[fallen vessel]

ah i am stuck at the point where i am confused with how many built in data structures should i learn

[stuck bluff]

You learn what you use.

[fallen vessel]

but if i have to be more specific with examples and questions give me some time and i ll come back

[stuck bluff]

Through use, memorisation.

Some things you will use more often, this you will become more familiar with them and their capabilities.

[fallen vessel]

ah so i need to find examples where i need to use them and memorise those cases

[stuck bluff]

and use cases

[fallen vessel]

ah kk

seems like it is the only way out

[stuck bluff]

Memorisation shouldn't be the task you set yourself.

Use is. Familiarisation is.

[fallen vessel]

wdym

ah i see

[stuck bluff]

You can always look up what you need to know for more specific details.

[fallen vessel]

then i need one more suggestion if i have to break into competitve programming how much of python should i know

[stuck bluff]

Not having done competitive programming, myself, I'm probably not the best person to ask, but you do want a very good general familiarity with what you have available to you in the language. However, more important, I feel, is probably going to be your general data structures and algorithms knowledge.

[fallen vessel]

ah kk

[stuck bluff]

Knowing the language on its own is never going to be enough.

It's just a language, not the things you're saying with it.

[fallen vessel]

hmm okay okay

right thnx

[stuck bluff]

@misty sinew 👋

[misty sinew]

hey

is it faster to join a iterator of str or list of str and wich is the most efficient

memory side

[stuck bluff]

@dense viper 👋

[dense viper]

Hey, my college wifi blocked VCs

[misty sinew]

but like you can do "".join(["1" for i in range(4)])

"".join(("1" for i in range(4)))

no just as ex

ok

thanks

ahh the use case

here is it

[stuck bluff]

!code

[coarse hearth]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[misty sinew]

for more context ts a html obj

can you re explain

ok

yes

[stuck bluff]

var = 2 * 2
f'...{var}...'
# vs
f'...{2 * 2}...'```

[misty sinew]

ok doing this rn

ok

cus the self is treated as a empty when self.contents = []

i can do a if statement

[forest horizon]

wow

hi

[misty sinew]

thanks

[forest horizon]

intro = input(' Hi how are you? ')

lmao

print(intro)

[stuck bluff]

Do you intend to join us in the voice chat?

[forest horizon]

no sorry

[burnt vault]

hi

[minor haven]

Hmm

Idk

Hi

[delicate canyon]

@pulsar lotus

Main functionality

check

[pulsar lotus]

not bad

looks way better

[delicate canyon]

right

[delicate canyon]

ima dip eat ice cream

[pulsar lotus]

aite

[brittle sand]

wasup

[viral leaf]

The Cyber Mentor(TCM)

[misty sinew]

Hello

Hows going?

@sinful panther You okay?

[pseudo mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtu9Ks2CN-U

[sinful panther]

yea?

[misty sinew]

I saw you rage quit VC

[sinful panther]

?

i just left bc everybody was mute

[misty sinew]

Almost all of them are AfK

Did you need any help @sinful panther ?

[sinful panther]

no

and i dont rl wanna be interogated just bc i left a vc

[misty sinew]

My bad

I just felt that you were asking something but none of us respond

hence asked you

[unborn wind]

Hello!

[fallen ingot]

hi

[unborn wind]

I have an issue

i just joined the discord ;-;

[misty sinew]

you cant talk

[unborn wind]

i know ;-;

[fallen ingot]

yeah

im verified

[unborn wind]

nice

Basally im trying to upload documents to MongoDB

[fallen ingot]

anyone of you know ai ml

?

[unborn wind]

but when connecting using SCRAM, its getting a bad connection

or bad auth

[fallen ingot]

best option to use gpt specially gpt 5 its so helpful

[delicate wren]

where is MongoDB located relative to the application?

[unborn wind]

bad auth : Authentication failed., full error: {'ok': 0, 'errmsg': 'bad auth : Authentication failed.', 'code': 8000, 'codeName': 'AtlasError'}

[delicate wren]

are you using it cloud-hosted?

[unborn wind]

yes

[delicate wren]

it fails always, right?

[unborn wind]

yes

[fallen ingot]

anyone have knowledge about ai/ml by anychance

[delicate wren]

#data-science-and-ml

[unborn wind]

Even when i used urllib.parse.quote_plus

since my username has a @ in it

[fallen ingot]

nodbody is active there

[misty sinew]

One of us is afk

[delicate wren]

are you re-implementing the API client or using some existing one?

[misty sinew]

ikO

[delicate wren]

what are you using to connect to MongoDB?

motor?

[unborn wind]

a database

[delicate wren]

what package is responsible for establishing the actual connection to the database server?

[unborn wind]

pymongo

[delicate wren]

at which point does this get involved?

!code

[coarse hearth]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[delicate wren]

have you tried not escaping the @?

was the error the same?

[unborn wind]

I use it on the username since it has a @ and i need to convert it into percent-encoded forms

[unborn wind]

yes

[delicate wren]

(exact code)

[unborn wind]

Username and password must be escaped according to RFC 3986, use urllib.parse.quote_plus

[unborn wind]

I did it in my .env file

[delicate wren]

can you send the page where this is a quote from?

[delicate wren]

(documentation URL)

[misty sinew]

No body

[unborn wind]

https://pymongo.readthedocs.io/en/stable/examples/authentication.html

[misty sinew]

No buddy?

Dude is drunk

[delicate wren]

you are not mixing urllib.parse.quote_plus and password= keyword argument thing, right?

[unborn wind]

Yep im not mixing it up

i escaped it in a seperate variable then concating it into the connection string

[delicate wren]

there is a possibility that you didn't actually create a user

[unborn wind]

i did

[delicate wren]

you clicked this button during setup?

by default it removes the part starting with @

I tested it now and it did not let me include @

it turned [e-mail] (name censored) into example

does it, under this column, show a username that has an @ in it?

stuff that's shown in the profile, as far as the DB is concerned, isn't the username for authorisation

[unborn wind]

it says edit user : <whatever>@<whatever>

this is for a company onboarding project

[delicate wren]

are you on a page that looks like https://cloud.mongodb.com/v2/<a bunch of symbols>#/security/database/users?

[unborn wind]

everything else is done, but i cant connect to the mongoDB cluster

;-;

[unborn wind]

no

[delicate wren]

follow these steps of navigating to it

[unborn wind]

can we call in private dm?

it will be easier to explain where im at

[delicate wren]

do you currently have cloud.mongodb.com open?

[unborn wind]

yes

[delicate wren]

is there this menu on the left?

[unborn wind]

im in databaseusers and clicked on edit user

yes

im in database access rn

and i can comform I have the correct permissions

[delicate wren]

does this specific thing have @ in it?

(in your case)

[unborn wind]

no

[delicate wren]

whatever is written there instead is the username, generally

[unborn wind]

ohhhh

in pwd auth when you click the edit button is the pwd right?

[delicate wren]

yes, this password is for DB access

it's separate from your Atlas account

[unborn wind]

i think i got it

nvm it didnt work ;-;

[floral spruce]

im learniging javascript and C++ right now

[delicate wren]

my condolences

[minor agate]

can anyone help ?

[pseudo mantle]

What's the code in 3adel_noob.py?

rich is supposed to be module in your file system, or a separate library from pip?

[stuck bluff]

@indigo jackal 👋

[indigo jackal]

Yah z i r a

Btw have a great evening everyone, I'ma gonna leave!!

[stuck bluff]

@red wigeon 👋

[red wigeon]

yep @stuck bluff

[stuck bluff]

@lilac ether 👋

[lilac ether]

hello 👋

love to join python community

[wooden dome]

I'll be honest, they must be smoking if they think 5"9 or 6ft is average in India

I'm certain 5"5 is average for man

Less than 1% of Indians are 6ft or above

[delicate wren]

today Discord decided to work without a VPN

wait no it didn't

it undecided

why is the "connected" display broken now also

it shows connected even when actually not

(now works)

I got three new computers this week

gradually setting those up

small ones

basically embedded

(2 of them)

256MB and 512MB RAM

surprisingly, the image for one of them came with Python pre-installed

3.12

also seems like I can install uv there too

ah, wait, no, it's glibc

won't work

need to build it myself

[delicate wren]

I think for its size 512 is quite okay

thing

three CPUs

(slightly confusing)

funny situation

it's a full computer

I'm running Linux on it

(SSHd into it)

screens are connected there via MIPI DSI

I ordered another one
(for distributed systems experiments)

mostly testing certain networking stuff with constrained resources

rabbitful excitement

[delicate wren]

and a different model:

[delicate wren]

256MB

[delicate wren]

512MB

"You or Yu?"

[stuck bluff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1187005022261747722/1394692956073627738/Screenshot_20250715_175144_Instagram.jpg?ex=68b06d08&is=68af1b88&hm=da5922d96490b58fb645efab2fda5248b2cf98b39ab88897fd53f5ef30a56a12&=&format=webp&width=826&height=795

[delicate wren]

Chinese

Yuya-ify

UEFI

I want this

8 computers shoved into one

Yuya

yuyayuya

annunciation

accents

whatever else

a/ä difference to some is non-obvious too

[stuck bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/pacman-video-game-eating-marshmallow-gif-6008098

[delicate wren]

eating umlauts? pacman is going to have an explosive diaeresis afterwards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)

[misty sinew]

what would you like to know?

yes

[delicate wren]

set[Rabbit]

rack of catloafs

NOOOOO

why risc v why

why did humanity allow this

I thought RISC-V was incompatible with UEFI/BIOS

(UEFI takes control away from the OS)

clearly the answer is taco
https://youtu.be/qXWpa6zIQsk

okay

Gyro day in 4 days

[stuck bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/veggie-my-big-fat-greek-gif-21455775

[delicate wren]

something -ite

[stuck bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/bfgw-toula-lamb-gif-20889980

[delicate wren]

tacoscope

The letter ⟨ґ⟩ is usually romanized using the Latin letter g, or sometimes ġ with a dot or g̀ with a grave accent.
"so ġyro/g̀yro?"

dot is unusual

!charinfo ґ

[coarse hearth]

Character Info

\u0491 : CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER GHE WITH UPTURN - ґ

[delicate wren]

GHE
with
UPTURN

💥

[misty sinew]

I don't know much about you @tame leaf but you mentioned you got ADHD.
I've noticed I'm type of person who talks about thing which has no meaning to listener, it has no meaning to me as well.
I felt like I've lost good connection and friends because of it, something which I do and regret yet does it again.

So I decided to ask you, do you see this as sign of ADHD?
because I do feel like I'm being ignorant

[unborn mason]

#1035199133436354600

[tame leaf]

Ask your therapist, not me.

[misty sinew]

Okay

[tame leaf]

I'm only knowledged on the fact I have it, not assessing it over one message

It takes years for people to notice, especially if you were subconsciously forced to mask

[misty sinew]

I guess so, because I've lost friends and made foe because of it

[umbral rose]

only certain doctors can assess properly, but here is a little test you can take to see. It's probably more accurate than asking a random person on the internet that knows almost nothing about you.
https://add.org/adhd-test

[misty sinew]

Thankyou for resource

[misty sinew]

It did help, test made assessment that it's unlikely that I got ADHD

But I will consult doctor just to be sure

I do appreciate the help and resource chris

[umbral rose]

No problem

[tame leaf]

The phrasing on this feels odd, where are you from

[misty sinew]

Bhutan

[delicate wren]

💥

modern standard
we're all to old for this modern stuff

@thin lintel and safety practices too

[misty sinew]

whats your agentic workflow?
for programming?

[misty sinew]

what?

[delicate wren]

tf's a agentic workflow

clearly not a real word

[thin lintel]

I don't flow towards work, I glide

[delicate wren]

and plome is 62 years away from the invention of ChatGPT

programming his Fortrans and whatever

[misty sinew]

i mean how do you use agents to speed up production

ie llms

while coding

[delicate wren]

referring to the earlier comment about 1960

[misty sinew]

I wish I could but I will not

[raven orbit]

i only debug fortran

don't actually design in it

[delicate wren]

undesign

[misty sinew]

I felt like depending of AI agent for production is not good

[raven orbit]

redesign

[delicate wren]

[just ]resign[ already]

[misty sinew]

I do use it if and only If I have to

[raven orbit]

subscribe to my onlyfans and I can

[misty sinew]

i diddnt say depending

more like asssisting

[delicate wren]

repairing electric fans without protection

[raven orbit]

*1930s electric fans

[misty sinew]

this is how : plan - code - test - adjust - repeat

Planning : understanding problem and designing solution

Task breakdown in function, class, module

execution and testing as I go

review and optimize

tracking every action

@misty sinew How do you use it?

[delicate wren]

AI agents are supposed to do stuff more autonomously

from what I understand

i.e. not only do you copy code from it, you allow it to paste the code and run it

[misty sinew]

They do but one has to be thorough

[delicate wren]

autonomously in terms of control

potentially unsupervised

[misty sinew]

Same

[misty sinew]

This is how the flow of agent is supposed to be for me

[delicate wren]

plan-do-study-act

but

there is a problem

AI can't study

nor can it adjust

today's LLMs are incapable of learning

still

you really need to dig into the internals to force learning onto it

which means you need to be in control of it

[misty sinew]

I do understand

Hence they are used in assist

[delicate wren]

(no service consumption of ready models)

[misty sinew]

I do control

agent can interact with git

so every action would be tracked

[delicate wren]

remember: git reflog

when AI fucks it up

or human

both are well capable of that

(git reflog contains the history of what HEAD pointed to)

so, if you rebase/reset/whatever else incorrectly, you can restore previous state

[misty sinew]

Good to know

[misty sinew]

Why is web dev eating mobile app dev's lunch? Presumably more people use their phones than they use websites. Is it the type of people that are buying from these websites? Is it that it's majority businesses buying and doing stuff from making interactions from these websites and not individuals like mobile apps are?

[dusty zealot]

nice

[novel violet]

Hello everyone, i'm new here
I'm a software developer and also a computer science student in uni
i hope i'm welcomed ???

[glad turtle]

Welcome Ibrahim 🙂

[sacred quest]

yoo welcome dev

me too. i am here for help others

[sacred quest]

me too. i am cybersecurity , hardware engineer , and much more tho. i can help you in python or any other lang

[novel violet]

Ohh that's great, I love the fact that you are an experienced hardware engineer.

At the moment, I'm learning rust.

Tho I use python frameworks like Django and Flask for software development

[sacred quest]

bro wow. i am pro on rust

[sacred quest]

i don't like python bc it's kinda too slow.

[sacred quest]

yeah i have like 1 - 3 years on hardware. 8 - 6 years software engineer

[novel violet]

You know Python is a compiled language and it was birthed from the mother of all software languages C

[sacred quest]

i am on this server only for helping others

[novel violet]

Ohh, well done man

[sacred quest]

yeah "C" create: C++ Rust(kinda) LLVM etc...

[sacred quest]

wait hbu?

btw i own a programing lang. it's coming on Summer of 2026 ( this lang will change the world )

[novel violet]

This is amazing, I would love to know more about your language

By the way, which syntax is it gonna follow ???

[sacred quest]

tysm. and sure

[dense jetty]

Pls help

My script

[sacred quest]

i don't know anything about python

but i can help

my lang really close to python syntax

[dense jetty]

Thanks

Help me fix this script to working again and clone it

I need to updated

loadstring(game:HttpGet("https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tlredz/Scripts/refs/heads/main/main.luau"))()

[wooden dome]

Milien left?

@slim depot What's going on?

The government has info about web and internet

The US government was the one who made a Tor and Internet

Freedom is a better livelihood, India is a democracy and has freedom similar to western countries yet China and Singapore offer better value to Human life in basic necessities to financial independence

[wooden dome]

@slim depot

@slim depot Indian Government was victim, it's not just government being evil.

I can give you inside about one of the situation

Indian authority implement law for better civic rule and empowerment of local

It was purely with good intent

but local revoked the decision

and reason was most stupid

they feel they are entitled to be above the law

because this law had strict fine and punishment

[slim depot]

k

[stuck bluff]

@worn thistle 👋

[wooden dome]

Like hit and run law.
those who hit the victim must have to pay and take him to emergency

Indian rejected the law

Street dog law

Indian rejected the law

and so many case

Nah

Similar to developed country

street dogs which has sign of agression would be killed

government would take dog for adoption program

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/bns-hit-and-run-clause-put-on-hold/articleshow/111417316.cms

NO

human

@slim depot Yes if it bit someone

But this was last measure

first was to take the dogs for adoption program

second was to implement strict law on dog owner, so they cannot abandoned the dogs which is measure reason for strict dog problem

Do you know all of these were rejected

But they want them on street

This is stupidity of Indian

@stuck bluff I don't know because they have foolish explanation

https://youtu.be/Iw2jsdzKRNU?si=XI2MOsNQU0szQkz_\

Just have a look at this

you would understand

These protestor are dog lover, they are more of selfish.
Some even have no empathy for rabies victim and blame on victim

[stuck bluff]

@small fractal 👋

[small fractal]

@stuck bluff Hi! I just joined accidentally

[slim depot]

@merry island anvpy looks really cool

[merry island]

Thanks but I can't talk

I need to verify

[slim depot]

yeah you need to spend time in channels and talk to people you can do !voice

no !user

[merry island]

Hey by the way, have you checked the recent update in anvpy ?

[misty sinew]

These protestors belong to the elite class of Indian society, notice how not a single poor person was part of the protest. That says it all.

[wooden dome]

Exactly 💯

[merry island]

See from my point of view, you know r@bies is like one of the de@dliest thing ever, I mean it will definitely be listed in the top 10. So you have to think from two points of views, freedom for dogs and rabies. In india it's like 30000 de@th cases per year.

Especially with age under 14

[wooden dome]

None of these will face street dog problems, most of them drive in cars.

They will adopt husky and other breeds not indigenous breed and dogs of India.

They feel not sorry for using branded leather bags and fashion wear, yet they prefer to call themselves animal lover

[merry island]

Yeah I agree 💯

[glad turtle]

@misty sinew you talk in voice?

[misty sinew]

wdym>

[glad turtle]

you’re voice verified, you’re in the vc, might as well talk a bit

[misty sinew]

Bro who made that channel instead of just chatting in the VC

[glad turtle]

text is excellent for low bandwidth connections

[misty sinew]

It makes the VC better in interacting and connection?

[glad turtle]

certain things are better communicated in text(or images). and sometimes the connection 📶 is not good enough for voice.

i hope that makes sense

[misty sinew]

Hmm, I see

[misty sinew]

I want to but I do not have adequate setup.
It would be disaster to use voice, I have poor quality of mic and background noise is big issue for me

Well, I switched to ubuntu linux guys👀

I will eventually.
I'm working on proper setup

[glad turtle]

cool, i’m still waiting for kernel 6.14 to reach debian 13..

[glad turtle]

i mean you don’t have to be a streamer, even discord on mobile works if you wanna talk

[misty sinew]

I'm broke as f.
I got poco f1, almost decade old phone.
It is miracle it works somehow

Recently I messed up with my space key in keyboard

life has been hard lately

#voice-chat-text-0 message

[glad turtle]

Interesting enough poco f1 is supported by postmarkeos

[glad turtle]

I’m assuming you run Android. Do you still get updates, can you install the apps you need? Can it still access the playstore?

[misty sinew]

Eh

I have pixel OS in my poco

[misty sinew]

I've used it before

Problem hardware it is too old to be used as normal phone

I use it mostly for streaming and chat

[glad turtle]

I wish I knew how to write drivers and diagnose problems with older hardware..

Repurposing or adapting software to older hardware seems like a cool activity

[misty sinew]

Yep

It is headache to fast boot

every phone has different process

and there will be error to deal with

using rom ain't fun

it has many draw back

Net Banking fails quite often

many application struggle on rom

[quaint pagoda]

What is rom ?

[misty sinew]

https://julianopenna.medium.com/understanding-custom-rom-installation-365b3d7a7c65

[quaint pagoda]

Rom means custom os or ui?

[small field]

how is my django project ( :
name is codechest
It has a different purpose than GitHub.
https://flag-issued-leonard-extension.trycloudflare.com/home

[sly pond]

horse heads are soooo big

[small field]

how is my project : )

[glad turtle]

@misty sinew i wonder what would happen if microsoft google apple and meta would merge

[glad turtle]

@gleaming vale sup, im playin a game

i'll be in vc in a minute

[gleaming vale]

what game?

[glad turtle]

openfront.io

[gleaming vale]

dono that.... but okay

[gleaming vale]

aw...

[umbral rose]

!stream 740572512005521458

[coarse hearth]

✅ @tacit jetty can now stream until <t:1756695059:f>.

[dry geyser]

How is everyone doing today?

[tacit jetty]

ok ty hbu

[dry geyser]

Camping

So tired

[umbral rose]

To answer your question, you shouldn't really take input in your classes. You'd take it in your main program where you were doing your menus.

[tacit jetty]

Ah so. should the class get data from functions then? like the menus

[umbral rose]

Yeah, your method would take the input as a parameter.

[tacit jetty]

wait so would you reccomend making it like different files or same one

[umbral rose]

You could make a generalized function to get input that takes the question and maybe the validation type if you wanted to check for that

[tacit jetty]

alr i might need ur help later xD. ty

[umbral rose]

Anytime 😄

[dry geyser]

@umbral rose how are you doing today?

[umbral rose]

Good thanks, how are you?

[dry geyser]

Tired but enjoying camping

[sour willow]

no

hi

post your code? is this the problems

[raven flint]

@austere yoke try label.bind("<ButtonPress-1>", lambda _, val=x: print(val))

🤣

[pearl apex]

bro what are you doing are you trying to make game

so bro are you using pygame

how is that module . how is the experience .....

[vale tinsel]

@sacred quest come here

[sacred quest]

alright

@austere yoke simply my lang don't work like you think. i build it with way easy to upgrade change syntax etc...

[austere yoke]

You are matching for Print( in your "parser"... So you don't have proper arbitrary functions in your language, since it must be hard-coded with the parenthesis.

[austere yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650401909852864553/1411469616315629708/image.png?ex=68b61684&is=68b4c504&hm=f8253069c56124bb7268f3b7666a9c36029800583a68151280648dd981eaa98e&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412357430186344448/1411433805969096832/image.png?ex=68b5f52a&is=68b4a3aa&hm=37dd7733c1869288169817fbcbca1eba588ecbd760c3b018278d023fff54d5ee&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412357430186344448/1411425088552833247/image.png?ex=68b5ed0c&is=68b49b8c&hm=086910efcafe0938dd4fa2b21984d29a027c8456f7a00b2c093cbb9a0d5774ed&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412357430186344448/1411419276287541259/image.png?ex=68b5e7a2&is=68b49622&hm=0e00088bdd34901f37ee140aec8096f986e930939a94f5f0a02663cf0c65e4b9&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650401909852864553/1411398885825581228/image.png?ex=68b67d64&is=68b52be4&hm=589c996d3c2912205e1aa334932f43dd85cd6eab0f3439606546b3d2a5d952a4&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGLNyHd2w10

[umbral rose]

🐻 ✅ - bear accept

[austere yoke]

def nuke():
    global __builtins__
    import sys, gc
    g = globals()
    __builtins__.__dict__.clear()
    __builtins__={}
    g.clear()
    sys.modules.clear()
    gc.collect()
    return sys.stdout

https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470884583684964352/1340109962348859393

[wraith cape]

i finally made my project

its a waste sorter program

[delicate wren]

writing docs
a lot of docs
aaaa

(actually just translating my own writing between languages)

brb

back (work call happened)

I know at least 3 other regular people on this server that used it before

Flutter

https://flutter.dev/showcase

🇨🇳

[delicate wren]

and one more big Chinese firm

also, this

yes, the game bundles a web browser for its UI

[delicate wren]

in one row

[delicate wren]

(the main one; idk about the showcase one, since that's mobile; might be integrating differently)

@dry pendant they're probably just "this company mentioned they use Flutter on this date" entries

[delicate wren]

@stuck bluff mail or male?

lmao

since that would meet the newer terminology

that's not what MCP stands for

MCP is Master Control Program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_MCP

[stuck bluff]

e-boy, e-girl, e-mail.

[delicate wren]

(yes, the joke being the misheard option is equivalent to first of that list)

[minor haven]

Yo

[carmine pebble]

which graph database is this?

[austere yoke]

That’s using Obsidian’s built in graph function

[carmine pebble]

ok and how do you see this usefull in your journey?

[austere yoke]

What?

[carmine pebble]

content of shared video graph theory

[austere yoke]

Because I think it looks cool

[carmine pebble]

ok i was wondering how this gonna usefull in real life

[austere yoke]

1. Because it looks cool, and that makes me happy. I program to have fun and make cool things, so there doesn’t need to be a real world use as long as I enjoy doing it.
2. These graphs are useful for a field of mathematics called Game Theory, since it can often reveal superstructures of the system and bottlenecks of positions.
3. In the more general case of a continuous physical system, these graphs are called phase spaces, and analyzing them can be a good way to understand how the system behaves. If you’ve ever seen the graph of at what temperatures and pressures water is a solid, liquid, or gas, that is an example of a phase space diagram.

[carmine pebble]

awesome now that make sense

[misty sinew]

Valuation would be halfed or 1/3 of present valuation.

Tencent of China is Meta + Google of China.

Valuation would be halved at best, highly inflated valuation they have based on competition!

[glad turtle]

I see, so it's against their best interest to merge.
But I think behind the curtain they're one and the same.

[misty sinew]

I hope not, yet it appears to be.

Microsoft is as big as Apple yet it chooses not to optimise and improve Windows 🪟

Microsoft chose to enter the manufacturing of tablet and Phone market but it avoided the laptop market.

I guess this is a clear sign of compromise

[glad turtle]

is Microsoft doing this because it knows it can't do better than Apple.
or is it because they have a deal behind the curtain to complement each other and never compete.

[misty sinew]

Even if it can't do as well as Apple, it would be much better compared to third party vendors for Windows

I guess behind the curtain 🤝

The only valid argument to opt out of is "It can harm the interest of third party vendors and it would make them choose Linux or native OS "

I see no other reason, why not?

If they can make a Quantum Computer, they can make a good CPU as well

https://youtu.be/wSHmygPQukQ?si=XclBhTxvN523NdmM

[stuck bluff]

@dusk solar 👋

[glad turtle]

@fresh oasis fully audible

[dusk solar]

@stuck bluff 👋

[glad turtle]

https://leetcode.com/problems/evaluate-division/ <-- this is the problem if anyone is interested.

@gleaming vale 24/7

[gleaming vale]

Making QPU is based on physics, making CPU is based on engineering

[glad turtle]

they're both physics

[gleaming vale]

I mean CPU don't use physics to drive stuff unlike QPU

[glad turtle]

remember when p-doping and pn junctions about transistors were novel..
still physics..

[glad turtle]

yes it does, look up the inner-workings of a transistor

[gleaming vale]

The transistor tech is done by chip manufacturer....

I'm saying is it doesn't mean that if you can make QPU you can definitely make CPU

[glad turtle]

better yet, tell me if you pursued the thinkpad?

@gleaming vale ^^

[gleaming vale]

Most option has 500 USD shipping fee and if not it simply didn't ship to Philippines 😭

@glad turtle ur German ja?

[stuck bluff]

@astral pier 👋

[glad turtle]

Romanian 🇷🇴

[gleaming vale]

Romanian.... Close enough

[glad turtle]

I find it very odd. I live very far away from China and I never get such shipping fees when ordering anything from there.

[gleaming vale]

Idk....

Well most stuff I saw from the link u showed came from America

Sometimes some are from Germany

[glad turtle]

@desert mist 24/7

[gleaming vale]

24/7??

[glad turtle]

24/7 ⏱️ 365 🗓️

[glad turtle]

@desert mist @tacit jetty ^^

passed lol, very bad perf tho

[pale pivot]

https://github.com/mustafaquraish/marker/blob/master/marker/lms/base.py

[pale pivot]

@umbral rose with 1024 samples

~5.5 mins

[mossy monolith]

what version of python is best to use when learning?

[gleaming vale]

Usually any version will work

[glad turtle]

sorting linked lists by merge sort

[worn canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/top-top-of-the-mornin-to-ya-cats-gif-9436667

[haughty stump]

seems like I cannot open mic yet

[delicate wren]

📉 it's blue therefore good

[tawny lily]

https://tenor.com/view/why-persian-room-cat-guardian-but-why-trendizisst-anyaboz-gif-2156104475561014590

[stuck bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-up-stongs-meme-stocks-gif-15715298

[bright flint]

Guys whats the best free code editor except for microsoft visual studio mine is bugging

[stuck bluff]

O

[tawny lily]

NOTEPAD

[tulip grail]

Thonny

[stuck bluff]

https://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/maru-batsu-sankaku.html

[delicate wren]

@tawny lily :q!

if it's ed, then just q I think

[bright flint]

u use it?

[tulip grail]

yes sometimes

[delicate wren]

VSCode, not VS

VS proper is not great

@tulip grail raspbian

[tulip grail]

its also preinstalled on raspian i think

[delicate wren]

(for stuff like Python and arbitrary editing)

[gleaming vale]

the first question was "is it performant enough" lol

[delicate wren]

raise Todo

class Todo(NotImplementedError): ...

ctrl+shift+f raise Todo

@tawny lily WingIDE drops into interactive context after execution too

!d code

[coarse hearth]

code

Source code: Lib/code.py

The code module provides facilities to implement read-eval-print loops in Python. Two classes and convenience functions are included which can be used to build applications which provide an interactive interpreter prompt.

[delicate wren]

might as well just use Jupyter at that point

dtrace it

AB testing segfault in prod

@tawny lily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvUdvte1V3s

mandatory watching material

for payment processing

[delicate wren]

(don't skip through, you won't learn)

no. go and watch that in full at 1x speed.

do you know the i-word for doing it right?

[delicate wren]

@tawny lily

thanks for clarifying, now go and watch the video

you should instantly reply if you know

[delicate wren]

idempotence/idempotence token

yeah, then you definitely need to watch that

Jimmy is entertaining enough to watch even not for raw technical stuff

[tawny lily]

i use 3.14

[coarse hearth]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[delicate wren]

audio works

[misty sinew]

CPU and QPU both use physics at its core, to understand QPU one has to understand the working of CPU and Machine first.

Microsoft had discovered a path which hasn't been discovered to make its QPU,
road map to manufacture CPU is already in practice and it is much easier for corporations like Microsoft to make its own.

In fact Microsoft manufactures its own CPUs and AI accelerator for Azure Technology

It certainly can make its own CPU for laptop and Desktop

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/azure-cobalt-100-based-virtual-machines-are-now-generally-available/

[misty sinew]

It is not just limited to the US, it extends to China as well.

BYD chose not to enter the US market, despite tesla being made in China.

I think it is the pure behind the curtain deal, BYD can't be banned like huawei as it uses in-house technology for core working of its EV

[sudden trellis]

yo

[merry island]

Hello @glad turtle

[wooden dome]

hello

How you all doing?

VC inactive now?

Ah maybe all are afk

@stuck bluff They always end up being heated

I guess someone has bad day and he would like to express it out 😆

Sharing is caring 💯

[gilded estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[wooden dome]

Jaw

https://tenor.com/view/police-coco-jaw-drop-skeleton-shocked-gif-15485742

He sure have jawline

https://tenor.com/view/sigma-boy-mewing-mewing-god-jawline-best-jawline-gif-3582189448456478631

Are there two cyber sec?