career-advice

[smoky quest]

You would just look like the bad party

It's not like in the movies with the gotcha moment about a typo in a document that invalidates everything

there is your name on it? Are you cool with it?

[whole wasp]

Why don’t they just fire me then? Idk how that means the same thing because if I don’t sign they should just fire me

[smoky quest]

but yeah, having to sign a nda just to interview is a major red flags

[smoky quest]

Maybe they haven't noticed yet. Not all companies are super well organized.

The question would be: why do you create such headache for yourself? Eventually they will ask for it

[delicate bane]

were you referring to this part

[whole wasp]

Not my fault they didn’t give it to me first

and why do I get weird stuff in my contracts

[smoky quest]

It's your fault for not going through it

[whole wasp]

I don’t understand legal languages

[delicate bane]

@buoyant seal idk DW; im not a lawyer, but im interpreting these paragraphs as saying you might come across confidential info during this whole process and you are not allowed to speak about said confidential info

[smoky quest]

Ignorance is not an excuse.
The point is either they forgot and won't ask, it's there but don't care or they care and eventually will ask you.
If they ask you and you accept, then why so many headaches for yourself?
If they ask you and you won't accept, then you put yourself in a position to be let go, sued or anything in between. In which case, why still put yourself through so many headaches?

[delicate bane]

but tbh if its some recruiter platform coming to you repeatedly with this kinda stuff, i would also ignore them lol

[delicate bane]

yeah thats not...standard practice right?

[smoky quest]

nope. I would gfto

[delicate bane]

[shadow moss]

for CSuite maybe, not regular Tech people

[buoyant seal]

just name is ok to me. There are hundreds people named like that.

[delicate bane]

i heard csuite interviews are uber intense

[gilded valley]

I've had to sign an NDA for an interview before

[buoyant seal]

yeah

[gilded valley]

it's often the case for very R&D heavy companies

[delicate bane]

ah i can see that. i would also assume maybe consulting companies...or nah?

[shadow moss]

no

[buoyant seal]

It can, but it should be resolved on case by case basis with company which interview me at least. I will not agree to generic NDA for everything related to interviews during my time with recruiters

[shadow moss]

if data should be cover by NDA, don't discuss it with appliciant

[buoyant seal]

that's too xD

[smoky quest]

That would probably come for the later stages

[shadow moss]

also, Charlie is British, it's possible over there it's more normal

[gilded valley]

Palantir was the company I had to sign an NDA for

[smoky quest]

but if you are gonna to interview 100s of people, you won't really want to expose then to such private information

[shadow moss]

I'm speaking as American

[delicate bane]

ah i heard a couple podcasts about that one

[shadow moss]

probably didn't want to discuss all the warcrimes they were considering you to help faciliate

[gilded valley]

give me the money and point me at Yemen

[delicate bane]

you know theres something im curious about

some of my profs are adjunct profs and teaching is only a side thing

and they are working professionals for their day job

whats the incentive behind the teaching thing? they just enjoy teaching...or?

its most def not the pay, i can reasonably assume that 💀

[smoky quest]

My guess is they enjoy, boosts their ego "teach X at university Y" and give them a pipeline for interns/recruitment

[delicate bane]

i guess i can see how that can help with the latter...however indirect that may be...

[pulsar drum]

Yup I had a professor who told the class about some openings his company had. Was direct about it

[delicate bane]

does that (teaching at a uni) help with career stuff at all or not really

like do employers value that?

[smoky quest]

it does speak for some level of expertise (although dubious for some)

[delicate bane]

i see, i see

i only ask because i like teaching so maybe it can also be a side thing for me when i get more experience

i also see it as a way i can give back

[smoky quest]

be mindful of the time it takes as well

[delicate bane]

hmm thats true. it would eat up a lot of time. maybe only a summer class lol

💀

[smoky quest]

there are also guest lecturers and other things one could do

[old mountain]

Do a lot of internships for people get extended or turn into jobs? Ik it’s super basic question but Im not really experienced in how CS careers go. Im the companies only fall intern until December but i wanna go through until end of school yest

[native narwhal]

any experience will improve your salary and chance to get job offer

[dark moon]

Would I list Typescript and Javascript as two separate skills?

[summer roost]

they can get extended into part time work, and they can turn into job offers, but it's not likely they'd expect you to work from January until graduation, and even if they did, you could just decline the offer.

[old mountain]

No I would

Im working part time until December after my current internship ends.

[summer roost]

well, if you'd like to keep working for them after that, tell them so, and see if they can offer you something more permanent. They might be able to, they might not.

[summer roost]

I would, yes.

[dark moon]

On the topic of

And I'm quoting here

"cramming keywords onto the page"

I've been advised many times to show and not tell. To this end, including a soft skills section is at best a moot point, and at worst fills the resume with "superlatives" that can make you less attractive. On the other hand, the algorithm wants its pound flesh

Is this a balancing game? Am I thinking of the problem incorrectly?

As an example, the add I'm tailoring this resume for states:

> Work Conditions and Physical    Capabilities
  > Fast-paced environment
  > Work under pressure
  > Attention to detail
  > Personal Suitability
  > Initiative
  > Effective interpersonal skills
  > Accurate
  > Team player
  > Excellent oral communication
  > Excellent written communication
  > Client focus
  > Judgement
  > Organized

If I'm understanding correctly, there's a good chance a parser will reject my resume on the basis of not including all or some of these words. I guess what I'm asking is, what's the preferred approach towards integrating them into the document?

[summer roost]

No, automated applicant tracking systems are usually looking for particular technologies, not for soft skills. They're looking for words like "Python" and "Django" and "Linux" and "Docker", not like "accurate" and "team" and "pressure".

[dark moon]

Perfect!

That simplifies things

As an example

https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/jobsearch/jobposting/36464189

The assignment requires that I tailor my resume to suit a particular job posting. I hope it's okay I post a link to it unredacted, since it's publicly visible anyway. The only hard skills it lists is are Python, C, and C++. I imagine a parser will also look for something along the likes of "X years experience"

What else should I be looking for?

[summer roost]

I imagine a parser will also look for something along the likes of "X years experience"
Most likely not, actually - it would be inferring that based on the dates in your work experience section.

[summer roost]

Hm. They mention testing, so pytest and gtest might be things they're looking for. They mention performance, so they might look for experience with profiling tools like cProfile or py-spy

[summer roost]

What on earth does this video have to do with Python or careers?

then don't post it.

[dense tree]

if a entry level job requires you to know python to what level do you think they would want you to be familiar with it?

[dark moon]

Well

Ideally, enough that you wouldn't have to come here and ask

Which sounds a bit harsh to say aloud XD not meaning to come off as overly sharp

[summer roost]

as or more familiar with it than the other candidates applying to the job

[dense tree]

oh ya I have no experience I got an internship for this tech company and I am starting to realize everything they have taught me at school is not useeful

[dark moon]

Don't worry about that XD

That always happens, so I'm told

School just gives you a baseline so that you're not starting from scratch when you get the job and start learning for real. Just keep your mind open, listen without opinion, and work hard. Congrats on the internship!

[summer roost]

the fact that you had an internship makes you a more appealing candidate than you otherwise would have been, and leaves you in a better position than people who went to your school but didn't get an internship.

[autumn urchin]

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding a budget learning path leading to a career in AI/ML? Possibly a Udemy course to start, unless that's unrealistic?

[dense mesa]

Andrew Ng's course is free. If you're not paying for higher education, never pay for online courses. Everything decent is almost always free

[bold elm]

I am looking to get into some data science work. Does any one have a beginner project ideas?

[wooden goblet]

hows the career hunt looking?

[obtuse talon]

i had this question over 1 week
is studying from any other external courses platform more worthit in school's time ?

[smoky quest]

in the context of?

[obtuse talon]

like if python is being taught
so is it better to take a long time and study by taking course
or in short period of time from teachers

like in short what is the best source to get things for more understandable ?

[summer roost]

There's no universal answer to that. Different people learn differently, and what works best for one person won't be best for someone else

[smoky quest]

From the employers' perspective, the main things that matter are:

• The accredited outcome. ie. did you get a BS/ms/phd
• How good are you at it. In which case, if you learn also from another class, then all the power to you

[fresh kite]

How can I as a Quality Assurance Engineer increase my salary? I love my position but is there anything i can learn to get a higher salary? cause it seems like developers earn a bit more even tho i also develop stuff at work (tests)

[smoky quest]

software developers do earn more than QA.
From a QA perspective, you could go into QE and work on the automation framework, which is an in-between step

[fresh kite]

I am an automation tester

i don't do manual tests

[smoky quest]

writing automated tests != automation frameworks

[fresh kite]

what is automation frameworks?

do u mean selenium/cypres?

[smoky quest]

it's the thing that runs your tests 😉

[fresh kite]

well i create automation tests for our api and run them with bamboo

[smoky quest]

the automation framework will be the thing in between. The thing provisioning the app, the tests, and all the things around it

so that the people writing the automated tests have a higher level view of the app and and can focus on writing the tests

the automation framework will take care of the rest, from the app, provisionning, scheduling and even collecting traces

oe tooling around them

The main route is to get a CS degree.
Even if you started earlier, your education and level would have a hard time to compare with them

[gilded valley]

What country are you in?

College seems by far to be the best route. If you're worried about the costs, the numbers at the moment seem to say that most people shouldn't have any trouble paying off their student loans.

[fresh kite]

Is it poossible to get a SWE job with just a software testing degree or do i need to have a CS degree aswell?

[smoky quest]

Anything is possible. Everything else is a matter of plausability

Whenever I post a job ad, I get 100s of applicants. What's your pitch to stand out in less than 30s?

Considering that 99% of the candidates have degrees, projects, internships and experience?

[gilded valley]

Why do you want to skip college?

[smoky quest]

same thing with lower qualifications

not sure what you are getting at

[true harness]

internships will probably require you to be in college

[gilded valley]

Internships are specifically targeting college students

[smoky quest]

yeah, internship's purpose is to give a taste of the real world in an actual company to students

[gilded valley]

Why is this a big deal? What do you have against college?

[smoky quest]

there are different internships for different college years

also depends on the country

[true harness]

what country are you in?

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

[true harness]

some internships will be for anyone in college, some will ask you to graduate by the end of the internship, some ask for juniors and seniors, etc

[smoky quest]

lol no

[gilded valley]

Fwiw, you can definitely apply regardless of those requirements as long as you make it clear that you don't actually meet them

Possible is irrelevant. Plausible is that matters, and it's not remotely plausible

[smoky quest]

as an employer, why would I pay the same than someone with a BS for less?

[true harness]

and probably write a cover letter explaining yourself too

[smoky quest]

if you don't have a degree, I will lowball you hard just because of that

and forget about working at the high flying careers

without a degree is like the difference between a contractor and a handyman.
The handyman will do the small stuff around the house while the contractor (ie. the degree part) will get to work for google/nasa and have the fancy high paying jobs

[gilded valley]

This isn't true. Once you have experience at reasonable companies, larger companies are perfectly happy to entertain you as a candidate

I know someone with 2y experience at startups who got headhunted by Microsoft

and no degree

[smoky quest]

a big chunk of the companies will just discard you. Another chunk of the companies which may give you a chance would probably have you fail because you can't compare

SWE is not just writing code

[gilded valley]

This does not match the anecdata of me speaking to people w/ no degree but w/ experience

[gilded valley]

and a degree does not teach you how to build quality software

[smoky quest]

it does match the experience of people I know all over FAANG and high paying jobs and careers

[gilded valley]

the majority of people at FAANG having degrees !== you need a degree to get to FAANG

[smoky quest]

it actually does. One of my class was especially about that 😉

[gilded valley]

your degree might have done - mine didn't. Lots of CS degrees don't touch on software architecture in any meaningful way

[smoky quest]

sounds like a non sequitur

FAANG literally have tens of thousand of engineers

Obviously, you can construct an example for whatever you fancy

Similarly, Bill Gates dropped out of collage. It doesn't mean that we shall recommend everyone to do the same.

[gilded valley]

Swapping anecdotes isn't particularly productive - but your example seemed to be saying "the people I know with high-paying jobs have degrees" which isn't even relevant when the vast majority of all software devs have degrees

[smoky quest]

you can apply, but so will so many other students from colleges around the country 😉

[smoky quest]

Not sure what you are getting at. Correlation vs causation?

[smoky quest]

The main thing from me is I have been at it for decades and from my experience and everyone I know around all the FAANGs, self-taught aren't gonna make it in 2022 for high 6 figures and 7 figures

Work backward from the objective. If they get 100 of students from great schools, what would set them apart? There are technical skills but also behavioral

[vapid jay]

Its a competition thing, those jobs have top-tier pay, perks, experience, look good on a resume, and are prestigious, not to mention some of those companies are doing the most exciting new things. Everybody wants to get them, so they can filter a lot more than other companies

[gilded valley]

The conclusion that you must have a degree to be a FAANG engineer does not necessarily follow from the fact that almost all FAANG engineers have a degree

[vapid jay]

you have to really distinguish yourself if you don't have a degree

[gilded valley]

especially when the sample is people recursive_error knows which is naturally going to be tilted towards people who think like you - people who did degrees

[gilded valley]

definitely - 100% - getting a good job without a degree is incredibly difficult. The hardest part is landing any job, the second hardest part is building up a skillbase that is actually useful and being able to demonstrate said skillbase

[smoky quest]

think of it in terms of causation vs correlation.
A degree won't guarantee anything. But it does provide more education and broader and deeper knowledge. That correlates with engineers able to do more, deeper and faster and thus able to be more successful and go further faster. At the same time, it's also a proof of what they have learned and been through. The interests compounds and will pay off throughout your career

[vapid jay]

i would say forget it for entry level jobs, those more likely filter by transcript and degree. Another thing is if you specialize in an area and then go for a specialized position

[smoky quest]

so correlation vs causation 😉

[gilded valley]

you can land some entry level jobs via networking - but that's not really feasible for a high school graduate

[vapid jay]

nepotism you mean hahha

[gilded valley]

You haven't suggested any causal effect - just a threshold that has to be met. Clearly you're not suggesting that getting a degree causes you to get a job at FAANG

[gilded valley]

not really - the person I mentioned met the CEO that hired him via friends he met in his bootcamp

(although clearly nepotism is the easiest route)

[vapid jay]

Depends on how both people did in their education, and what distinctions each have

Think of degrees as a quick filter

[smoky quest]

The quality of education is roughly the same. I have rejected many stanford/berkley students for no-names university students.
But, the school does provide a professional network. The better the school, the better the network because your ex-classmates would end up at better jobs and would be more likely to call you to get you in. Which in turns creates better opportunities

[smoky quest]

I am suggesting correlation, not causation

[gilded valley]

but I didn't suggest any cause - so cause hasn't entered into it

[smoky quest]

to be honest, I am still trying to figure out our point of contention

[vapid jay]

Sorry i didn't read that, yeah, nepotism joke aside, networking is the most important thing, although i think the word itself has turned into a sort of buzzword

[gilded valley]

Agree - I can't stand the word networking

[vapid jay]

Its just social relationships

[gilded valley]

You seemed to be suggesting that the fact that everyone you knew at FAANGs has a degree means you can infer that you need a degree to get a FAANG job. The disagreement is that that isn't particularly relevant when the vast majority of all developers have degrees, and an even larger majority of the best developers have degrees. All I'm saying is that if you can become a top N-% developer without a degree, and you can get some experience at a company that's not doing rubbish like churning out WordPress sites, then landing a FAANG job is perfectly doable

[smoky quest]

In theory yes. In practice, the bar is so high that I believe it would be misleading the kids in this channel to say otherwise.
I would compare it to Bill Gates being a drop out and being one of the richest man on earth. Did it happen? Sure. Would it happen again? Pretty much no

[vapid jay]

It happened quite a few times, but i agree with you, those kind of people drop out because they excel so much that college ends up being a waste of time, in most examples they drop out because they have something exciting on a growth course already

[gilded valley]

This is the message that sparked it - I was probably overzealous in interpreting what you meant by "a large chunk"

[gilded valley]

agree it's not likely - disagree that it's as unlikely as the Bill Gates example or founding WhatsApp and making billions or something.

[smoky quest]

how would you distinguish survivor bias?

[gilded valley]

yeah, absolutely

[vapid jay]

I would say people who say start growing something when in college, drop out, and then the business fails a few years later, go back to finish their degree

But i have zero data to back me up, its just a hunch about the kind of personality involved

[smoky quest]

I also have zero data to back me up, but from what I see, most people who drop out won't go back to finish their degree. Life catch up on to them, be it debt, kids, family, etc.

they may still try to hustle though

[vapid jay]

Yeah but we are talking about someone who drops out because they had a business working and decided to focus 100% of their time on it

[gilded valley]

Founding a startup and making billions is much harder than persuading a company to hire you. The amount of luck required is much much smaller if it's just about landing a job - and the impact you can have by self-motivating to learn is much larger than the impact you can have in driving a startup to success

[vapid jay]

Its a very miniscule subset of dropouts

[smoky quest]

they drop out because they had an idea. The idea was not necessarily a working business

[gilded valley]

and by much smaller - I mean thousands of times smaller

[vapid jay]

I don't know if thats the case, everybody has a thousand ideas

[smoky quest]

I am also a bit hesitant about making generalizations about startups. I could cite stories about folks giving up, or giving up even before it started, or trying again years later and anything in between.

but in any case, a random 17 years old kid has no clue about life and even less about startups

In many successful cases, there is always an investor or a parent behind it

[gilded valley]

I do not think you need to overstate the case when trying to inform someone - I think the argument for college is rock solid without needing to say "and forget about working at the high flying careers"

[honest pivot]

Another reason to advise a 17-year-old to go to college is that there is a trend of layoffs building up, and maybe this isn't a great moment to be looking for a job even under ideal circumstances. By the time you finish your degree, things should be looking better, and you'll have more knowledge and skills to boot.

[smoky quest]

interestingly, I was ready to somewhat agree prior to your edit. But I would not after that edit

[gilded valley]

I edited it to reflect what was actually said - what sparked the conversation

[vapid jay]

Even if the market were doing great, it is one of those things you absolutely regret not doing in your youth

[dense mesa]

This is completely unrealistic and I'm guessing someone is selling a course or some kind of online education on how to do this (which are always scams)

[digital fjord]

there are 19 year olds who make 6 figures, but it's not really something you can aim for, it's more something the very talented people get.

[true harness]

or most lucky

[buoyant seal]

or just in the right country

[true harness]

i think that counts as lucky

[buoyant seal]

fair point

[gilded valley]

Even in Switzerland and the US it's not remotely easy

[digital fjord]

Well, it's really both talent and luck

[plucky grove]

luck is useless if you dont have the talent to use it

[near ocean]

Lots of untalented, incapable people in high paying positions because of luck

[plucky grove]

even in programming?

[near ocean]

In everything

[plucky grove]

I mean in programming there are so many with many skills that if you are incapable of something you could get easily fired and if your job is highly paid it must be serious and must be done somehow, so not doing it might result in some bad actions coming towards you, thats why, at least in programming I think there is not such a thing, or at least not on a big scale as is in others job

[true harness]

you only get fired if someone wants to fire you, if that someone is your dad or something, they might not do that

[gilded valley]

it's also incredibly not-difficult to get to a base level of skill where you can plug away at Jira tickets so that you're performing to a level which probably isn't fireable

[near ocean]

Its also incredibly difficult to get fired (in europe anyway) unless you do some wild shit like grope your colleagues
You could pretty much be as productive as the office plantlife and still have relative job security

[gilded valley]

Even in the US - a culture where people are fired regularly is a very toxic one, and most well-run companies rightly want to avoid that

although I suppose well-run companies don't tend to hire rubbish 19yos due to nepotism - so that's not super relevant

[plucky grove]

well at least me, idk much about the real world so I am probably worng, but if there is a business or a company running why would they allow to lose money on someone which does nothing? like we might talk of hundreds of thousands of dollars anually lost because some high payments, why would a bussiness want that? low level jobs, require you to work for a boss which again reports to other bosses of his, is kinda impossible, in my view, to do nothing and that boss to not say anything about you, programmers in companies, have projects and deadlines, by not doing those and risking the bussiness to go on a bad path would they still be paid and not fired?

[graceful mason]

big businesses make stupid decisions costing the company a hell of a lot of money on a regular basis. they've got plenty of space in the budget for nepotism

[plucky grove]

they make mistakes indeed, everyone does, but wouldnt they fix them? and nepotism might be common but how many people can get up to do that? maybe 2,3 per company if is a strong enough one

[nimble herald]

Does anyone know any good places I can use to practise python questions/go over things for beginners?

[near ocean]

Codewars, codingame, leetcode, hackerrank, theres so many around

[nimble herald]

Ty

[dense mesa]

@plucky grove I would highly recommend doing an internship or any form of work experience, most people have this same view until they start working in any capacity

[plucky grove]

well I would love to

[dense mesa]

The strangest business decisions you could think of, they're being made hundreds of times on a daily basis

[plucky grove]

but there is a problem, I am only 14

[plucky grove]

ah alright

[dense mesa]

That's fair enough, you really have to see this to believe it

[plucky grove]

yeah I understand,I know the world is messed up

[dense mesa]

It's not necessarily a case of being messed up, sometimes high level people are only seeing the big picture (which they normally do anyways), and so make decisions without being as informed as they could be about what's going on "on the ground"

[plucky grove]

how are businesses surviving then

[dense mesa]

Commercial awareness is basically realising that these mistakes that seem "dumb" on the surface are actually being made by people who think they're doing what's best for the business. Occam's razor basically: the majority of people are not actively trying to act against their employee

[dense mesa]

Because every company will do this to some extent, and it's also why so many businesses fail

[honest pivot]

Nepotism is super common, it's practically the way the world works at the highest levels

[dense mesa]

It's good you're questioning this now, because it's an eye opening experience once you start working/interning/experiencing this

[plucky grove]

yeah I already knew that corruption and nepotism were a thing, but I didn't think they were so bad and so common

[dense mesa]

Plus this yes, I have seen this first hand many times through people I am very close with, anecdotal evidence of course but still

[dense mesa]

Modern work

[honest pivot]

Look at how many famous actors and musicians had parents who were also famous actors and musicians, and ask yourself whether you think acting and musical skill are truly hereditary...

[plucky grove]

modern stealing

[near ocean]

Going to university gives you much more than what you think you might learn, it also gives you the opportunity to network with people from all over the world

[plucky grove]

hmm here in Romania I don't think we have universities, or any good ones

no wait I'm dumb , we must have, but I am to small to know about them

cuz like grades 0 - 8 we have school, primary and secondary then 9-12 high school , then 13 - 16 college, and many many stop there

[dense mesa]

My uni has a fair amount of Romanians, and from the ones I've known personally, a lot said they came to the UK for better prospects

[plucky grove]

yeah

education system is Romania sucks mostly

[sage relic]

Should I practice a lot of questions before starting DSA? I mean I have understood the concepts and I have done enough practice from each concept. It's not like I have done 500, 1000 coding problems

[near ocean]

It might not be that advisable to go to the UK for uni anymore, you'd have to pay international student rates and also get a student visa with the monthly checkups and what not

Ask a careers counselor or someone related

[true totem]

speaking of hakathons: you need to learn to hack to attend them right?

But where...do..you...learn...to....hack!?!

[pulsar drum]

In a Hackathon you can work on any project, not necessarily one that involves hacking in the sense of security.

[near ocean]

Hacking means creating adhoc solutions to problems

[plucky grove]

there are plenty of websites which teach ethical hacking, in plenty of countries hacking is legal but when you cross a line as you start controlling others devices/gather data from different devices that aren't yours/break in someone personal devices and then blackmail them with some contents either they encrypted their that you will publish them online and so on and so on it becomes illegal. sites as tryhackme, hack the box and many others teach the hacking that many do, the difference is in which way you use it

cyber security is a good job that involves even python, is very cool and pretty well paid, not as much as programming but close enough

[naive dust]

YouTube (I like NetworkChuck personally)

[plush hemlock]

Using Python to automate security systems and enhance orchestrated counter-measures starts around $200k/yr base salary. What I've found is if you are a technical expert in some discipline other than programming and then you learn programming...you become extremely rare and invaluable with near bulletproof job security. Your boss rarely questions anything you do because you're the only one that can do it. Python is imo, the easiest language to use programming to enhance your existing skillset.

[true totem]

wow sounds like a fun career for White Hats

[plucky grove]

well yes, but that salary comes after many years of learning many fields in cyber security plus python and programming concepts. I saw that ethical hackers are paid maybe 90k/year or around there

[peak halo]

can you elaborate more on what you did that you're trying to describe?

is this something that needs to happen repeatedly, or was it one-off?

I would instead say that you "fully automated a labor-intensive procedure using the Twitter API", or something like that, and then save the part about how you were able to save development time for the interview, as a story that you can whip out about problem solving.

you are welcome 💚

[sonic drum]

is it a terrible idea to share your freelance work on github as you're submitting it?

i just completed my first freelance job and the whole project turned out to be more than 25mb so i couldnt attach it on upwork and just published it on github / shared the link with the client. is this dangerous or am i just being paranoid

sorry if it's a stupid question. im very excited

[smoky quest]

Depends on your contract and who owns the resulting IP

[sonic drum]

we have never discussed that. does that mean im in the clear or automatically screwed?

[smoky quest]

I am not a lawyer.
Double check any document you have signed, whether with upwork or that person

(also congrats on your first contract!)

[sonic drum]

thank you and thank you!

[smoky quest]

Oh also re-reading your question, I may have gotten it wrong. I read it as you using it for your own portfolio.
In the context of transmitting your work to them, I would double check the best practices and contract. If I was a bad guy, given you haven't sent it over upwork, what would prevent the client from saying you never sent anything and bail out on you?

[sonic drum]

oh no i havent submitted it to their repo

i submitted it to mine and then gave the client the link to the repo

in the submission text

[smoky quest]

yeah, that's also the extent of my knowledge as I have never used upwork. Maybe someone else with more experience can help

[misty heron]

I also started watxjing his tutorial rn vjdeo am in ep 5 tried some things

[frosty condor]

Guys, I have a question for you.
I am planning to study my second university.
Do you think it would make sense for me to study software or mathematics in addition to the computer? I want to focus on data science. Another option is management information systems.
It includes topics such as data, artificial intelligence, economics, business management.

[fallow pebble]

fuck

[near ocean]

Do you have a question about careers and how they relate to Python?

[cobalt sand]

If you studied computer engineering probably you don't need any other bachelor's instead go towards master's at any department but with the focus on data science.

[icy pecan]

Business

Administration

[near ocean]

Those are single words without context, not questions or discussion topics

[honest pivot]

How do you juggle interviews for new jobs around your current job? lol

[near ocean]

I did mine at home lol, on company gear

Phone calls i happened to take at work too, i just step out of the office and the building
Tech interviews I asked if they could schedule them around my WFH days and around lunch time

[honest pivot]

I can WFH every day, so at least that part isn't hard. But I just needed to schedule a whole 2.5 hour block for a live coding interview :\

1 hour block I can do over lunch no problem, but not anything longer

[near ocean]

Why not? Do your coworkers bother you a lot?
I got messages during the interview and I even asked if i could take 5mins to respond real quick

[delicate bane]

yeah that sounds super annoying

[honest pivot]

I spend a lot of time pair programming and people can be surprisingly dependent on me. Less so later in that week, at least

[gritty rivet]

Ung, such a pain. I just kept using PTO last time

[delicate bane]

[near ocean]

Cant you block out a half hour before and after lunch? Gives you 2h minimum and you can say something like, gotta run to the pharmacy or whatever

[gritty rivet]

I was working in office then and it was impossible to do anything from the office. Now would be different

[delicate bane]

makes sense

[gritty rivet]

I was a help desk tech then, so a 30m phone call during lunch was about the only thing I could manage

[near ocean]

Can you maybe take a half day off?

[honest pivot]

Probably could. The catch is that I need to provide the interviewer with multiple options, so it's about trying to control how soon in advance I will know when I'd have to take the time off 😛

[jade rampart]

Know Python, worked on a decent amount of projects but regarding topics of one kind only. Wan't to do backend. What should I learn, how should I present myself once I'm prepared for a serious job? Any question you think I should ask to you and I forgot? Thanks in advance 🙏

[graceful goblet]

Could you schedule it before/after your work hours?

[near ocean]

Work hours are similar for most jobs, why would you stay after work to interview people?

[graceful goblet]

Because you care about people?

[near ocean]

Interviewing is part of the job for the interviewer, I wouldnt appreciate being asked to stay late to conduct an interview

[graceful goblet]

Yeah, you wouldn't. If @honest pivot hasn't yet probed about the opportunity to schedule the interview before/after work hours, the worst that can happen is that the recruiter says no.

[near ocean]

I imagine the sentiment is the same for everyone, unpaid work sucks

[gilded valley]

the worst that can happen is the recruiter thinks "what a joker", hurting his chances of getting the job

[buoyant seal]

You know, that everyone is having different time zones xD

So the chances for you to have similar working hours are less than 10-20%

I just name comfortable for me time frames, then they choose.
Or they name their comfortable time frames, and I choose. Done.

[honest pivot]

I have, in fact, and it's not reasonable. At my current job, I also interview people, and I would never be willing to do this outside of normal hours.

[near remnant]

I've made projects with html, css, JavaScript, Python, Flask, django, PostgreSQL, sqlite, docker, AWS. Know Basic Data structures & algos, patterns and OOP. Used WSL, Linux, Windows, vscode, pycharm etc.

Would it be enough for an internship?

I always feel like I dont know enough no matter

[true harness]

maybe. look at internship listings and see what they require.

[near ocean]

Are you doing interviews but not passing them?
Or are you not even getting calls back?
Theres different things to focus on for each step of the way youre failing

[near remnant]

I got two offers but feel like i dont know enough

Im just starting out

Sorry for the stupid questions

[near ocean]

Two offers for what? Internships both of them? Have you decided on which one youre taking?

[near remnant]

-unpaid internship at a fintech, very successful but very small company

And

-a low paying, junior developer job at a big multinational company

First backend, second front

[near ocean]

So have you decided? Seems like an easy pick between the two, for me at least

[true harness]

unpaid internship 👎

[peak halo]

If the internship is unpaid, they're not supposed to have you do anything that has business value for them. And if they're not paying you, they don't have any reason to give you anything meaningful to do.

If they're paying you, but they don't have meaningful tasking for you, they're wasting their own money

My guess is that a small company, even if they're successful and what they've sought out to do, aren't prepared to make a worthwhile internship plan.

I'm not involved in internship planning at my company, but I've been in meetings where seniors talk about it, and we only create internships when there's appropriate tasking available. and in particular, the tasking needs to be cohesive enough that the intern could clearly communicate what they did that summer

[dark moon]

If I'm trying to match some hard skills to keywords on a job posting

Experience with Client/Server, Peer-to-Peer and multi-threaded architectures

Do you think "fullstack" would get picked up as a match for the "Client/Server" part, or do I actually need to use the words "client" and "server"

[near remnant]

Yeah, I know, their plan is to hire interns for a couple of months and then hire them as a junior. They said they have 3 devs who were interns before at the company.

But honestly, I'd rather go with the paid, full-time job

But I'd earn at least double the money if the other company hires me after the unpaid internship.

[orchid brook]

guys

Would it be possible to get an engineering position without the leetcode grind at a top company

[near remnant]

yes

[orchid brook]

based on school rank past experience internships gpa etc

[orchid brook]

but as a fresher though

[near ocean]

Sure? If you pass their technical interview then why not

[near remnant]

there are a lot of companies who don't do leetcode tests

[orchid brook]

but do they all have leetcode style exams

like how hard is it really

[near ocean]

Some of these big ones do, its a company specific thing

[near remnant]

yeah

[orchid brook]

Even for internships?

[near remnant]

if you want to work at a very big tech company as a fresher then yeah, you need to grind leetcode

[orchid brook]

ahh okay

[near remnant]

but if you just want a job then don't, because its very company specific

[orchid brook]

but should i start grinding sophomore year

for internship/co-ops

[near remnant]

dont think so

if your goal is an internship, create projects, learn stuff

so you can talk about them during interviews

[orchid brook]

i already have one (my first summer)

And im in university based projects but no personal projects

Would that be a problem because i dont have any personal projects

[placid knoll]

U can but mixed both with school work and personal projects

that you decided to do on your own

[sonic spear]

I'm a software developer with almost 1 yoe. I'm very interested in learning Machine Learning not for (professional/career) but personal interests. Should I learn it I have plans to use it ocassionaly in my projects?

[peak halo]

what kind of projects? because if you're creating something that's going to last for a long time, having an AI component is going to be a substantial commitment for the lifetime of that project.

[honest pivot]

I think they're just asking whether they should learn some machine learning, in which case I'd say yes

[jade rampart]

can I ask a question not related with that answer at all? do you have a degree on something?

[peak halo]

I have a CS degree and I work as an AI developer

[jade rampart]

wow

ok

[jade rampart]

do you think a degree is really necessary to have a career as a programmer?

[peak halo]

#career-advice message

[jade rampart]

What if you cant afford a CS?

[dense mesa]

@vapid jay <@&267628507062992896>

[jade rampart]

Could you still have a career as a programmer?

[peak halo]

next time, ping the moderators instead of the admins.

[dense mesa]

Will do, how come out of interest? I thought for the really urgent stuff we do admin instead of mod (such as that)

[peak halo]

if it's that urgent, why would you want to ping a smaller group of people?

[dense mesa]

Doesn't it alert mods as well

[peak halo]

no? moderators are not admins. also, if an admin sees an admin ping, they're going to assume it's not about moderation.

[jade rampart]

moderators include admins

ahh not everyone, mb

[peak halo]

so you can't get loans? because chances are, taking on debt to get a CS degree would pay for itself.

[dense mesa]

Ik that mods are not admins, I thought this server followed the thing where pinging admins pings mods as well. Also, mods can sometimes take a lot longer than admins

[jade rampart]

that doesnt exist in my country

[coarse crag]

they can still have a career but it will be harder and you won't get paid as much as someone who has a degree. i'm quoting from @ recursive_error's answer

and also, reading the message link from @ stelercus will give you a decent answer

[jade rampart]

but at least I would get paid, without at least trying wont get paid at all

I guess

[coarse crag]

well that's true, i guess if you have no other way around, then whatever way will do. but generally speaking, people in this server would recommend you to get a degree. because it doesn't make sense not to go to college if you are able to.

[gilded valley]

what country are you in?

[coarse crag]

maybe spain? 🤣

[gilded valley]

well - if they're in Spain, then university is very cheap

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and asking in case it's a reference to the language and they're from some other Spanish speaking country

[coarse crag]

yeah, i was half joking when mentioning spain

[jade rampart]

no

[coarse crag]

but wouldn't that depend on the economy of the country? in my country, university is not too expensive but considering the economy right now, it's just really really hard to even get a food on the table every single day..

[jade rampart]

I always hated the traditional educating system also

[coarse crag]

me too, i think they can be alot better but yeah, i guess one is better than nothing

[jade rampart]

So much I ended up indoctrinating myself to be a hater of the system

Also I almost cannot work if I go to college

[gilded valley]

If you're in Spain, then university, whilst working or applying for grants, seems to almost certainly be the best path - there doesn't seem to be any reason to eschew university

[coarse crag]

oh he said he's not in spain

[jade rampart]

🇦🇷

[gilded valley]

ah yeah - I don't know anything about the situation in Argentina, the right choice definitely depends on your country a lot

[coarse crag]

yeah this tbh. if i were in a developed country i'd borrow money to go to college, but i just don't think that the education from my country is worth borrowing money for.

[smoky quest]

I can't speak about Argentina, but in most countries, you would have some forms of:

• Assistance from the government
• Part time jobs

It's worth looking into it

[jade rampart]

What about a scholarship in something like this https://www.digitalhouse.com/ar/productos/programacion/certified-tech-developer

Sorry, its in spanish - It's not a CS though.

[smoky quest]

look for reviews, placement rates, etc.
Sounds like a bootcamp? I would recommend to look for articles about how to evaluate bootcamps

[jade rampart]

its sponsored by Mercado Libre (LA's Amazon)

[jade rampart]

Top universities in argentina work with them, meaning they use their teachers to teach their students

[smoky quest]

That sounds like marketing speech.

[jade rampart]

Well it's actually something that happens.

UDESA (Universidad of San Andres) use Digital House for some topics.

[smoky quest]

If they use the same teachers and the same thing, then why can't it deliver the real degree?

Not that it's necessarily wrong, they may just be targeting a different market with a different outcome (ex: bootcamps). But if it was legit the same thing, then it would deliver the same thing

[jade rampart]

reading reviews

[weak pine]

guys pls

[near ocean]

Do you have a question about careers and how they relate to Python?

[weak pine]

I want to

[weak pine]

i want to say if pension = "a" or "A"

how i do it?

[near ocean]

Thats offtopic for the channel, use the appropriate channels for help #❓｜how-to-get-help

[weak pine]

can u help there?

[near ocean]

I might, I might not but use the proper channel for help

[weak pine]

bro

[near ocean]

My guy, read the text in #❓｜how-to-get-help and then claim a help channel for your question, its not hard

[vapid jay]

@daring orchid

do you really believe that its not possible for me to learn enough to get good marks by end of next month?

i've been working on this all summer and i'm two semesters in already

(this will be third)

[daring orchid]

You can pass, but passing a class does not make one good at programming.

[vapid jay]

its possible that this is just a money grab by the uni. no i cannot get through with passing. i need to get B or greater

[daring orchid]

My issue is that I have often see this where someone squeezes by in the education system but are not qualified programmers by the end.

[vapid jay]

well i'm not trying to be an engineer or computer scientist

[daring orchid]

Ah, what are you taking such a complicated topic for?

[vapid jay]

MS in bioinformatics

and you're right, i do not have the mathematics background for such a thing, but i thought i could learn the necessary math as i go along

[daring orchid]

Ah, well, that requires even more qualification IMO than your average application developer.

[vapid jay]

i didn't realize they were going to throw me into the deep end with algos in the engineering school with zero preparatory courses

which is my own fault

[daring orchid]

Well, not exactly. These things should have been covered in prior education. The education system under which you live has failed you.

[vapid jay]

it hasn't failed, i went to college many years ago and high school ~15 years ago. so of course i've forgotten most everything

[daring orchid]

Ah, that makes sense too.

Math def. needs constant practice, even after graduation.

Getting a job that challenges you really helps with that.

I'm not sure if you have enough time, but at this point, the fastest route would be to try to speed through a bunch of practice exercises for algebra. And doing proofs in general.

[vapid jay]

i need to do whatever i can to escape working in a laboratory. I'll make less and less as the years go by and there will always be more educated or better qualified people than me because i got an undergrad in biology. i'm so screwed if i can't learn this stuff so there is a lot riding on it

ok

any specific algebra exercise sites you recommend?

[daring orchid]

It's not about being the best, it's just about being the you can be. There is always someone more qualified (myself included), but that does not matter, because they can't do millions of jobs by themselves.

[vapid jay]

oh btw i turn 34 this year so trying to start down a new path next time is.. not possible

this is the one shot i really have to escape the biosciences, unless im able to come home from work every night and learn programming (i dont have the mental endurance for that)

[daring orchid]

I have seen people start math careers at age 60~.

[balmy spade]

Why wouldn't it be possible next time? I started a new career path well past 34. If you aren't dead, you can learn and apply something new.

[vapid jay]

#career-advice message

because i'll be back to a full time job again

[daring orchid]

I don't know what you situation is really so this is really hard to give answers to.

[vapid jay]

my situation is i quit my job and live at home to pursue this degree

and if i fail ill be back to where i was only have less money and less time and not able to learn programming when i go back to a mentally exhausting laboratory job

[balmy spade]

I can't know your exact situation. I will not belittle the challenges you see before yourself and do not wish to come across as dismissive of them. You have, in the years you have worked in that lab, more experience than any fresh recruit. The soft-skills you've had years to learn are invaluable, imo. Career switching is hard, young or old, but you have something that gives you an edge. You've worked before. You know the basics of the game. You have the knowledge of how a career environment works.

[vapid jay]

one where there is zero chance of advancement

and i'll have roommates for my entire life and be beyond miserable

"You have the knowledge of how a career environment works."

thats the issue, i know that i'll never ascend to anything better, and i cannot be happy knowing a life of mediocrity and zero advancement lies ahead of me

[balmy spade]

You believe you won't ascend to anything better. You don't know it. Nobody does.

[vapid jay]

i DO know it, because i studied biology at the undergraduate level. the MS people make better money, and the PhDs are the only ones who ascend to any level of responsibility or authority. people who aren't in this situation can never grasp how truly screwed the people in it are. i'm used to it by now

idk why nobody believes me when i share my experiences and those that all the other people in my exact situation have had, which align

even my professors told us this when we were in undergrad

get a phd or youre screwed. they were right then and they're even more right now

squiggle literally just said i don't know enough math to do well in this course i need for this masters

[balmy spade]

Okay. You are correct in that I don't know your position. Limit of the internet and of life. You are obviously in a low. The walls are surrounding you and you see limited opportunity.

Career discussion: Nothing happens without effort, as you well know. It sounds like you started with a plan of some type. Enough to get into classes on a road to somewhere. You're putting the actions into play. You're seeing roadblocks and not sure how to navigate them. This is the time to circle the wagons, take a moment to breath, and consider your options again. Whatever mental focus got you into the classes, pause and do it again. What's the goal, how to obtain it, re-plan, and execute again.

[vapid jay]

btw, i asked the professor about this all before the course. and she said essentially no just get an outline on discrete math and you'll do fine. which is worlds away from what squiggle is saying

all i do every day is study and read from the book and practice problems. that is all i do

there is no retry or approach again, its my whole life

[daring orchid]

You will pass with your current effort. Your current roadblock of algebra can be overcome. I'm not sure how much they expect you to know, they seem to be jumping around a lot.

[vapid jay]

passing doesnt cut it

B- and i'm kicked out

yeah they almost immediately jumped into NP complete and i couldn't believe it. literally no reason to do that whatsoever

[daring orchid]

Yeah you'll be fine, when you are able to go through proofs like we did before on your own, you are ready.

After that it's just all practice and doing everything in the book you have time to do.

[vapid jay]

alright thanks for all your help today i'll be around all summer pls send algebra practice problem site if you think you have found a good one cheers

if im asking in algos too much just lmk

[daring orchid]

Unless a moderator kicks you, it's fine.

[vapid jay]

i have another math server i can utilize for strictly algebra stuff

[daring orchid]

There are solid websites for math: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

[vapid jay]

jeeze

9th grade huh

[daring orchid]

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra2

If you had more time I would recommend: https://brilliant.org/paths/math-foundations/ (not sponsored)

[vapid jay]

what you think work through both of the khan academy ones

[daring orchid]

If you can find some algebra practice problems that you have trouble with, try doing them.

[vapid jay]

bet

[daring orchid]

To the point that when you read the proofs in the book, you can follow along without getting completely stuck.

[vapid jay]

good idea

so are you a software engineer but studied math? seems like how you come off

[daring orchid]

I'm an AGI researcher.

[vapid jay]

whats that

[daring orchid]

Artificial General Intelligence. It's why I hang out in #data-science-and-ml .

[vapid jay]

oh wow so youre what math phd?

[daring orchid]

No, AGI is not really a thing. It's a whole bunch of different things, but math does (as usual) glue it all together.

(Computer science, mathematics, physics, robotics, neuroscience, and more)

[vapid jay]

i meant what did you study. but if you dont want to share, thats cool

[daring orchid]

Computer science. But I did not continue because I was not getting what I wanted from it. I just study on my own.

[vapid jay]

at what level did you study that, undergraduate?

[daring orchid]

Yes.

[vapid jay]

yeah theres a lot of math in a CS undergrad

what is your preferred language

i know python

wait, this is a python server. nvm

[daring orchid]

Oh you meant programming language. I use whatever I have to use.

[vapid jay]

i mean what is your native language would be interesting to know as well. guessing non american

[daring orchid]

I am not going to give that kind of information at this time, sorry.

[vapid jay]

ok

i only guessed that bc of the "your education system has failed you" comment

and non americans typically know how shitty our education system is

[daring orchid]

I don't think highly of any education system anywhere. But I don't really mean to start some kind of debate here.

[vapid jay]

fair enough i wasn't taking it that way

[vapid jay]

what do you guys think of freelancing

[brittle thorn]

Its great and fun with right projects

[smoky quest]

it depends on the context. It can be a great idea or a bad idea

[summer roost]

Unless you have some very niche skills, freelancing tends to be a lot of work for relatively little pay

[vapid jay]

How do I know if I'm ready to seriously apply for jobs as a self-learner?

[near ocean]

Start applying and see how you do in interviews

[vapid jay]

when u feel confident enough to sell your skills for the job. if not confident then brave enough will do

can you tell yourself in mirror in 30 seconds why u qualify to have job?

[near remnant]

Lmao, a friend of mine got an offer for a software engineer job, he just graduated, and told the company that he will start from September. They agreed.

My buddy starts in September because he wants to play league of legends the whole Summer.. Lmao, i thought that game is dead. 😂 😂

[near ocean]

My first job i got an offer end of june and they also told me to start september 1 with other people, dunno why

[honest pivot]

Probably more convenient to onboard 2 people at once than one after another

[near ocean]

Not complaining, got two months free of stress and interview grind

This isnt the channel to get help with code, try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[sturdy swallow]

my bad sorry 😂 channel got changed

[near ocean]

welp, i went in today to give my notice and i ended up starting negotiations

[peak halo]

they're trying to convince you to stay, or what?

[near ocean]

yes, I mentioned how much the offer is, other benefits like WFH, tech used, kind of products imma be working on, etc
they want me to wait until Friday for a counter offer

[peak halo]

have you considered that now that you've "shown your hand", so to speak, you might not be considered for future promotions?

[near ocean]

yes, they want me to "shake hands" if the counter offer is successful, to keep me from looking at the market
I'm not sure I like the sound of this

[honest pivot]

Only you know the situation and your colleagues. I would think there's a high probability that they'd be looking to replace you, since you've already shown that you're looking elsewhere.

[shadow moss]

Don’t do that.

Take the other offer, counter offers are amount money they are willing to give you while they replace you.

[near ocean]

Kinda hard to replace me, who in their right mind would take an operations support python/vba role
i only took it cause i had to pay rent lol

[agile turtle]

guys after completing my high school , due to poor financial condition i chose to self study rather than going to college for computer science , because i was already making some money from making android apps

i kinda regret that decision , because big companies or educational institutions do not give any opportunities to self-taught programmers,

now i am just trying to get as many certifications and take part in hackathons and build good projects as possible ,

[polar forge]

Do you still have the opportunity to go to college?

[vapid jay]

https://www.techiedelight.com/data-structures-and-algorithms-problems/

how many of these can you do?

[near remnant]

Im gonna have 3 interviews this week.. I don't know why, but interviewing makes me sick lmao, anxious

[honest pivot]

In a way, having more interviews should make you less anxious, you have room to make some mistakes

[hearty island]

man i had an interview on the 30th and my recruiter said they would schedule one for me on the 12th... they never scheduled it

i was hoping it was bc it was a holiday weekend but idk why it's not scheduled now

[near remnant]

I know, just getting to stressed when Im on the interviews. But yeah, I should change my way of thinking, you are right. Any advice?

[honest pivot]

I mean it's a bit like dating. If you put so much pressure on this one interaction, you'll drive yourself crazy. Tell yourself it doesn't matter, you can't pretend to be someone you're not or know things you don't; you're just going to talk to them about what you do know, and learn from them about the role.

[near remnant]

Yeah, you are right

[sudden ember]

What I suggest is to read a good book on facing interviews. 'Never split the difference' will help much.

[patent breach]

Hey guys I’m new here, I was on a few interviews and it’s absolute normal to be stressed but what you can do is to read on there website description about the company and talk with the interviewer about them 🙂

[sudden ember]

This one actually suggests in that book.

[patent breach]

I learn that without a book XD

What’s the name ^^

[near ocean]

So, about negotiations for counter offers:
How can I politely decline all negotiations now that I fucked up and gave them the space to try to counter offer me?
I really like these people and would like to keep future opportunities for work open, if the right offer comes along.

I also don't want it to seem like I only care about money but they're pretty stubborn about changing other policies

[peak halo]

is there some reason why you don't want them to give you a counter offer, even if you know you're going to reject it?

[smoky quest]

It's basically what you wrote. Be explicit about what you want and that while you would love to work with them at some point in the future, the current offer does not meet your criteria

[sudden ember]

Try to present your qualities in the interview, not your needs. Speak about their needs.

[smoky quest]

There is also no shame in wanting some specific compensation

[low snow]

I have got about 20 months to prepare for the job search. I have plans to start my own business and side hustles but I need the paycheck to set it up first. I currently have 2 internships, one at a startup and one at a rather large company. I plan to have 2 more by graduation, what's the best thing that I should do right now to raise my chances of getting in FAANG/MANGA? Do I just grind leetcode all day?

[smoky quest]

leetcoding 20months ahead is just pure waste of your time.
I would do projects now, and then leetcode later

[peak halo]

why FAANG? just because those are the most visible tech companies for the general public doesn't mean that they'll afford you the most satisfying career or work-life balance for your personal goals.

[near ocean]

I just wanna be as polite as possible because I like them, but the role is pretty much operations support and will hurt me if I stay in it for long.
There are some WFH policies I don't really like, like "everyone comes in on Mondays" and 3/2 split while this new place is 1 day WFO every 2 weeks or so
I was trying to avoid the whole counter offer situation because it takes time to talk and I'm convinced its never a good idea to accept any counter offer regardless of comp

[smoky quest]

Ah that's different.
Then the role does not align too well with your career objectives and have decided to decline it

[low snow]

Yeah I forgot to touch on this, but I need the fame of FAANG for the side hustle that I mentioned a bit above. Not just for the pay. Since after all they are the biggest names and attract the most customers.

[smoky quest]

the fame is overrated fwiw

[peak halo]

those companies might prohibit you from having a side-hustle, just so you know.

[low snow]

I’m trying my best to juggle my intern and uni and projects at the same time. It’s going pretty well so far, I have so many idea I want to implement into my projects.

[peak halo]

especially if you try to attach your employment with them to your marketing.

[low snow]

All those youtubers are attaching their names onto videos and thumbnails and didn’t get taken down so I hope it will be fine

[peak halo]

it's not a matter of whether the videos get taken down, but whether their employers know that they're using their employment for self-promotion, and how they would react if they didn't know but found out.

[low snow]

Sadly I noticed that videos, courses from a former or current FAANG employees always are more popular compared to their counterparts

[smoky quest]

I can't really comment on that part. I typically avoid these type of youtube videos as they are trash

[low snow]

You’re right I have to consider that too. Might be a mess if they actually forbid me from doing that.

[low snow]

I kinda like the Joma guy vids, it’s pretty funny.

[near remnant]

I just realized, i asked too little salary for one position.. 😂

[primal imp]

Hey guys I need to help. I developed a advanced mathematical solver/Console for mobile but I couldnt introduce to people. Is this any web-social site for this as free? Cuz I m student, no money 😦

[shadow moss]

Plenty of people in unemployment line thought this.

You are not that unique or special.

[honest pivot]

The counter-offer process is already started, but I think you mentioned they told you they'd have something by Friday? That's not too long to wait. Then once it's offered, you can decline. There's nothing "impolite" about wanting to move on with your career. Just tell them what you've said here, that you've enjoyed the people very much and you want to keep the door open in the future, but for now the right option for you is to move on.

[near remnant]

Do you guys do programming, work on projects while on interviewing period? I mean, I have weekly interviews almost, I just don't know what to do. I'm refreshing my OOP, DS&A knowledge and do some leetcode, but i dont really do any hard stuff like building a project or what not. Is it a bad way?

[smoky quest]

It's not bad. That's entirely up to you. Projects are not a requirement if you have a degree or is a student.
I always have some projects going but that's because I enjoy it

[severe swift]

I'm working as a QA engineer for hardware. I'm a working student. I developed a noise/click/pop detector for a sound card. Now I'm working on some scripts for automating other scripts. Then I'll be looking into robotics controlled with python and Arduino to stress test hardware components. There's no senior QA engineer. How to level up? Training resources? Or just keep at it?

[near remnant]

I have 4 frontend projects and 1 fullstack with python, flask backend

I feel like I have enough practical knowledge, experience, but need more theory

If you know what I mean

[smoky quest]

• You can look at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/131XZCEb8LoXqy79WWrhCX4sBnGhCM1nAIz4feFZJsEo/edit#gid=0 and self evaluate yourself
• Read career related books
• Read technical books
• Find a mentor

[smoky quest]

Do they match your career objectives?
How do these projects compare to the projects of any other candidate with a profile similar to yours? Would you stand out?

Reading books is healthy and worth continuing reading. Even being out of school for a while, I still read some more textbooks/technical books. Learning never stops

[near remnant]

I would say, Im getting a fair amount of interviews. I've applied to about 15 places and got 7 interviews. Not sure if its bad or good or average.

So, yeah, I could improve my projects of course but I feel like I have a lack of theory knowledge.

[smoky quest]

sounds like you are doing fine then.

[near ocean]

Where do you think you're struggling?

[near remnant]

I think I was focusing too much on the "learning by doing" aspect. So i just learned by doing projects.

[near remnant]

I think DS&A and patterns

[near ocean]

So the technical part of the interview process you'd say? That one is easy to mend, you just practice as much as you can, do a wide range of puzzles until you begin to recognize "general categories" of problems, that should make it easier

[near remnant]

Because Im getting interviews, I just need to pass the tests, OAs

[near remnant]

Yeah, thats it.

[smoky quest]

https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/ is a great book

[near ocean]

Yea its a time thing, not much you can do but practice more, its not a one or two day thing

[smoky quest]

(it can also be used as a reference later)

[near remnant]

Would you guys accept for example a Business Analyst or Data Analyst job or skip everything and just focus on getting the first developer job, even if it takes much longer?

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't settle unless I have no choice.

[near ocean]

I would sprint to the first feature dev role i could find

"analyst" from what i've seen is just business talk for excel jokie

[near remnant]

Yeah..

[neon coral]

Hi anybody a data scientist here, im about to attend college for the data science course and ive made some decent headway with the basics of python, any advice for data science for a newbie?

[near remnant]

Check DataCamp

[broken quarry]

i want to get back into python as i got GCSE computer science (the school tests in the UK) what online resources would any of you guys recommend?

wait the question was just answered sorry!

[daring orchid]

Mathematical foundation (calculus, linear algebra, statistics). And just being able to program in general, not just for DS, but anything in general (small tools for example / automate things).

[near remnant]

data science is really hard to get into, rarely any junior/entry-level positions

[hearty island]

business analyst 🗿

[plush spindle]

Should I learn MatPlotLib or Plotly ?

[near ocean]

That should be a question for #data-science-and-ml probably

[polar island]

Hi Guys, I just did my 10th standard and I want to take computer science as my career, I am confused if I should start DevOps or Full Stack Developer ( Can anyone please suggest which one is better especially if you have any experience in either field ) [ I have very basic HTML/CSS, C++ and Python Knowledge ]

Thanks for any input

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to aim for a CS degree. That's the path with the least resistance and most opportunities. Armed with it, you would be able to take on either role

[buoyant seal]

Computer science usually means as Software Engineer going into the field
DevOps means Dev + Ops, usually assumes the developer has previous broad experience as system administrator or as backend developer, or both. Not really good thing to dive into as first thing. This is more of a cross position requiring to know already a lot.
Full Stack Developer is kind of a joke. And definitely not something to choose for first timer, better to choose Backend or Frontend. if you are going to apply for CS degree, which is highly recommended, I would recommend backend job as first one after that if you wish to be in web development field, because it has the most usage of true Software Engineer skills.

You can become full stack developer of course... But in general it usually means frontend developer who learned to do shitty backend
or backend developer, who actually decided to learn frontend.

And you can't become good backend developer, if you will be divided too much in your first years of career into other fields

[polar island]

That makes sense, if I go for backend development, what should be the path of least resistence?

[buoyant seal]

Although you know, I am actually kind of going into several directions at once.... backend + DevOps are my interests 🤔 still my main interest is backend, and that's where I get the most of work experience and learning. The choice for a main specialization was made.

Ergh. In jobs people usually need a master of one thing. It is not that needed to have a master of two things and more. Actually it is needed, but only when you already reached something like senior rank in your first specilization

[buoyant seal]

Getting Computer Science degree, landing first backend job and grinding experience, self educating yourself a lot? There are official roadmaps for that...
I did not like them because they don't mentione generic SWE things to learn... made my own map https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap
The map is still in the process of being made, but i think it is already better than having to read https://roadmap.sh/backend which is kind of missing all the SWE thigns

Take a special attention to green squares. you need to learn them in order to be a real developer

learning python (purple) squares, and backend flavour (yellow squares) is not enough

During CS degree, trying to land internship / participating in hackatons/open source activities. Getting basically experience outside of cirriculum

getting internship during or at the end of CS degree as backend developer is the best option for easiest path

https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap giggles, filling the map while discovering new things to learn. It is kind of a map matching my knowledge 1 to 1. Although sometimes it is having things which I just plan to learn 🤔 Sort of adding all books for myself which I know where would help me to go on my way next

[hearty island]

should i ask about my upcoming internship interview if the interview was on the 30th and the followup was supposed to be on the 12th and i still haven't received the link?

i mean it was just july 4th and a holiday weekend

[polar island]

This seems a lot to absorb and go through, I will take my time to understand each and everything but I cannot go for CS degree atm as I just finished my 10th standard but is there any online resources which I could take as my first step towards practical knowledge?

[buoyant seal]

:blinked:
I know books at least. kind of a fan of books way to learn stuff.
my map is even mentioning books which you can learn... just start from "Backend start" and seek first avaiable books / online materials available there
I put them on the lines

I should mention in my map stuff to learn for SQL 🤔 At least getting started. One moment

[polar island]

Thanks a lot for your help bro @buoyant seal

[valid saffron]

What Python libraries are worth learning to start with?

[buoyant seal]

where/how do you wish to use python

[valid saffron]

Automate things

[vapid jay]

There's 700 problems there, how can I reasonably answer your question

But if I had to guess I can certainly do some of the easy ones

i'm not in the field but that page was compiled with FAANG interviews in mind. the better you get at solving those the better off you'll be prepared.

we should pin it somewhere

[buoyant seal]

provide an example of situation you need to automate / preferably desired job name

just automating things is too broad thing to say anything

[valid saffron]

rename files by date, etc.

[buoyant seal]

1. learn how to use regex (import re)
2. learn how to use argparse(inbuilt solution), (Optionally in addition how to use library click, which needs to be installed)
3. generic python libs like (import os, import subprocess) for os.system, subprocess.run
4. learn how to use generic template https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/template-class-in-python/#:~:text=The Python string Template is,to key-based mapping objects., and probably learn applying Jinja2 too (needs to be installed)
5. making simple http requests with default in built library... urllib(inbuilt solution),? and then doing same with http requests for humans with library (import requests, needs to be installed)
6. learn how to save/deploy your scrips as python docker image in public docker hub for easy reusage?(preferably with image alpine for minimal size) 🤔
7. learn how to write and run tests for your scripts with doctest/unittest(inbuilt solution), optionally pytest(requires installed library)
8. learning to raise simpliest web server with Flask, which will give away at endpoint a simple json answer
9. you could be also wishing to learn how to make multiple http requests to resources with asyncio. it allows to query same resource hundred times while still using just 1 CPU

[valid saffron]

thanks!

[buoyant seal]

u a welcome. Added few other things in addition

[valid saffron]

okay thanks again! Have a nice night!

[weak halo]

All of you guys probably know a lot about coding related things but I don't really know much because school don't really teach much which is the reason why I joined this server. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to teach me somethings like tips (anything would be helpful) because I am really interested and want a profession based on computer engineering or mechanics and I think it would help. I probably won't see any messages until later so please dm If anyone can

Thanks

[smoky quest]

please, don't spam

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
In terms of career, the well traveled path and the one with the most opportunity is a CS degree. So work towards that and make sure you have the grades to get into a program.
in the mean time, have fun and do things. Discover the world of CS by doing all sorts of projects, from backend, to websites to mobile apps and even games and robots

[shadow mist]

I just had the hottest recruiter interview me

Makes me want to work with her

[ivory sluice]

i hope she doesn't have to work with you

in all seriousness, i hope you consider the job on other merits other than the recruiter's looks

[summer roost]

Blurting this out to a bunch of strangers is weird and creepy, and doesn't reflect well on you as a professional.

[buoyant seal]

Darkwind comes to a rescue with a joke:

[balmy spade]

Unfortunately you've missed the mark on the joke being funny and the topic being relevant to the channel.

[buoyant seal]

Darkwind needed to roll dices with getting at least 11/20 in order for rescue to be succesful. He rolled only 3/20. The rescue failed. (Dungeon and Dragons)

[bleak laurel]

What can you do with python programming, C++ etc
as a career?

[dense mesa]

Software

[balmy spade]

The doors are pretty wide open on that. Software design, development, and engineering pretty much touch every aspect of business today.

[astral ermine]

I've applied feedback on my resume that I got from here. I included data science projects on my resume, and reworded for further clarity. Here's hoping I get called for a data science position. 🤞

[buoyant seal]

Anything. In general it is assumed development in Desktop applications (Windows/MacOs/Linux), Mobile applications(Andoid / Ios), Embeeded development(Arduio/Hardware) or Web development(Clouds with Linuxes xD)

[buoyant seal]

There are also more eccentric roles, like Data Science and Machine Learning... where people know a lot of math and can build neural networks, yet they use python too
Or DevOps/SRE write scripts and build tools for infrastructure, and yet they use as main languages.... all kind of different Yaml Syntax in infra tools
Or Data Engineer role

[bleak laurel]

hmmk

[vapid jay]

What are some good examples of data science projects to show on a resume? Wondering if what I currently have on my Github(which I don't think is anywhere near good enough) is a step in the right direction at least

[buoyant seal]

check https://kaggle.com ? there should be tutorial data science probjects as well

i remember as a machine learning tutorial project, it was hand written digits recognition as a first thing

[vapid jay]

Isn't that considered a bad idea to have tutorial-esque projects?

[dense mesa]

Better than nothing

[buoyant seal]

it depends on how much you understood it and changed from the original? 🤔 yeah, I would have probably weighted only as 25-50% effort. Though if it was considerably changed, then we can consider it as 100% effort
but yeah, better than nothing in any case

[vapid jay]

Well my alternative isn't "nothing" so I don't want something that's "better than nothing."

I am curious about what a good project would be, not what would achieve the bare minimum

[buoyant seal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ as pet projects, it is usually best to have anything what you are trully desiring

think which dreams you wished to come true, and make them come true.

enthusiasm is a flag that drives us forward.

and will make it as a quite easy thing to present

i have some minor stuff as pet projects, just from being in community of one game, and found problems that people have and I can resolve

other little pet projects, just for the sake of trying new technology
sometimes it is both things at the same time

https://miro.medium.com/max/1260/1*ng7m-WitpYK2VqW8I0v0ZA.gif

[buoyant seal]

You know, that looks like a topic described in some book to be honest 🤔 (About identifying a problem and proposing solutions, steps 1-4)
Anyway... guessing at intuitive level, the steps should be

1. Identifying a problem that people have.
2. Checking if there are already solutions to it, and comparing their strong and weak sides
3. Coming up with your own solution, and telling why it would be better
4. Gathering opinions of other people, to verify that it is a trully good proposed solution / pointing any flaws
5. Doing proper planning, with setting desired requirements for software product, user usage cases scenarios and etc, which eventually comes to implementing solution

P.S. technically pet projects do not require those steps. We can just do only step 1, saying your solution and jumping to your implementation xD But considering that it is Data Science projects, an additional scrutiny could be a win i think, because DS is basically a reasearch thingy, and thus we make better research

[smoky quest]

that's literally most books about startups and product management 😉

[buoyant seal]

Any good books you can recommend? Preferably they should be having enough of Software Engineer flavor to them

[smoky quest]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1118960874/

It's rather down to earth and covers from the idea, to the steps for implementation

[buoyant seal]

thanks. 😃

[orchid brook]

Would it be possible to get a hardware engr job

With only software internships/projects/research

[smoky quest]

That's what most students have at the end of their degree

[orchid brook]

would they expect hardware based internships or research

Like which is more flexible

Software job w hardware exp and software but not as much or hardware job w software exp only

by hardware i meant like embedded roles or low level stuff maybe not as high like ml or app dev

[smoky quest]

• Entry level are expected to be entry level: no experience
• Whatever studies and experience you have, it's like a cost function. The lower the cost, the easier it is

[orchid brook]

even at faang tier companies?

[smoky quest]

yeah

they bleed and poop like anyone else

[orchid brook]

so i could have a chance at a hardware position without having hardware experience other than what’s taught in college?

[smoky quest]

that's called being a student. Yes

[orchid brook]

but arent faang tier companies super competitive

[smoky quest]

they can be competitive

[orchid brook]

so how do i stand out i guess

[smoky quest]

• projects
• internships
• do well at interviews

[orchid brook]

Do hardware positions have like leetcode or something

like some knowledge testing exam

[smoky quest]

I am not on the hardware side. So I cannot comment on that. But I am pretty sure there is some form of technical interviews

[orchid brook]

ahh okay

if I prep for grad school and focus more on research would that be a disadvantage

like if I do more research than jobs or coops

[vapid jay]

Does anyone know if there are contract jobs for entry level positions?

in the US(Cali specifically)

[smoky quest]

There must exist some

[vapid jay]

But I'm guessing they're uncommon. Maybe I could try to apply to normal entry level jobs at smaller companies and try to convince them to hire me as a contractor. Doubt it'd work on larger companies.

[smoky quest]

yeah, that wouldn't be that common

[gritty rivet]

What do you mean by "hardware positions"... Electrical engineering?

[orchid brook]

Not really

Like embedded or low level stuff ig

[smoky quest]

fyi, that's not how most people would interpret "hardware". Someone working on the hardware would be like someone working on CPU designs or actual hardware and electronics with little coding

[vapid jay]

there are plenty of contract jobs in the US for all different levels. thats the way things are going, away from pensioned salaried employees and to people they don't even have to pay health insurance for

my first job out of college was contracting for a major pharma company (not in CS field)

contract python developer entry level in US yields 12k results.. i'd look there @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

Ok, that's great.

[vapid jay]

On some hiring website or just on Google?

oh sry linkedin

[fluid fern]

i understand it will vary from company to company but usually when does one get issued a pip

[summer roost]

Broadly, when the company decides your skills don't match their needs and they're not willing or able to provide sufficient training to get you where they need you to be.

[fluid fern]

Interesting, how does it work for developers i can understand it from a sales perspective but how does it work for coding?

[summer roost]

I was describing how it works for developers

I'm assuming you were asking about a Performance Improvement Plan - or did I misunderstand your question?

[novel cape]

whats a pip?

[fluid fern]

Yes i was asking about performance improvement plans but im curious about how some companies would go about benchmarking, like do they say do x commits a day or something?

[summer roost]

A PIP is extremely well documented. They would tell the developer exactly what targets they're supposed to hit. Most likely they'd be related to finishing some ongoing project or competing some feature

[fluid fern]

Ah, i see

[summer roost]

And often, the targets would be ones that the developer would be unlikely to achieve. Lots of companies use PIPs as a way to fire a developer for cause, as opposed to a way to improve performance

It's usually a better use of your time and energy to start looking for a new job than to focus on improving your performance if you're placed on a PIP

[smoky quest]

To be fair, I have seen both faces of that coin (from a leadership pov):

• Companies where the PIP is an unreachable and unrealistic target to get rid of people
• Companies where the PIP was truly a last resort process with realistic target and a way to ensure people could be saved. And they had the survivors from it to prove it

As an human being, I would trust your judgement about your manager/company about which category they fall into

[summer roost]

I've heard that that type of company exists, but in my experience they seem to be pretty rare. PIP targets might be achievable at some companies, but on average I don't think they are.

[smoky quest]

I just don't want to waste an opportunity for the companies that truly care about it and make some generalization. Not that we can get any numbers anyway.
But your instinct will tell you how much your manager/HR are invested into it and should be able to tell you how much you trust them about it.
That said, it doesn't hurt to cover your rear

[summer roost]

I agree that it would probably be very easy to tell the difference, at least. In one case they'd be giving you more support, and in the other they'd be giving less. You should be able to pick up which case it is, and whether your manager has already checked out on you, very easily

[vapid jay]

trying to switch careers and get into IT, help desk doesn't sound fun but i am willing to do it. would rather be an ISP field tech that sets up internet/cable TV in peoples houses. any advice?

[smoky quest]

switch from where? Is your current career relevant to IT/CS?

[summer roost]

Not really my area of expertise, but I don't believe ISP field techs tend to be college educated, so I'd expect it's a fairly easy field to break into.

Well, easier than most, at least, though career changes are never "easy"

I'd start by looking for job ads that sound appealing to you, and looking at what qualifications they require

[vapid jay]

not at all, ebay seller

been doing it for 6 years since i graduated college. in my free time i study IT / networking and have a pretty good understanding. i've been on computers my whole life since the 90's when it was DOS and dial up

i know more than ISP help desk people so when ever i have a real issue i usually ask for a level 3 tech

[vapid jay]

it is entry level, i am surprised i can't get in with a college degree and good resume.

i've been teaching myself pentesting. current project is building a router/firewall (just ordered the parts). kind of all over the place right now but i know it will come together

[vapid jay]

pentesting is what i really want to do, it's not easy to get into

[near ocean]

Pentesting and finance stuff sound like they both need formal academic qualifications to break into, maybe finance moreso

[vapid jay]

Anyone can help me and tell me why am I considered as a spammer by discord

(Didnt mass dm or anything of that, I just joined discord 2 weeks ago)

[near ocean]

the point is to get a job, high school dropouts will have a harder time than uni grads pretty much by definition

[vapid jay]

a lot of people go into IT for the money

having passion for your job and enjoying it is different than doing it for six figures

there is psychology behind it. many factors like workplace satisfaction, performance, burnout

[vapid jay]

you're right, it's the right way to do it

[burnt kettle]

you mean building a router? like a wifi router?

[graceful mason]

Embedded is a software engineering position and will 100% have some coding questions

[weak sinew]

Hey hi I'm Ganesh Narayanan from India I'm a Network Engineer I just wanted to learn python pls let me know how to start what to start

[burnt kettle]

Hi Ganesh, if you already know how to program in other languages, then Python should be easy

https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

[weak sinew]

No but i'm actually a dummy in programmig

[burnt kettle]

Then I recommend focus in understanding the basics of computers first + basic programming

this is how they used to teach ppl when I started

[weak sinew]

Cool but as u said start from scratch do i need to learn the python any other programming

From scratch

[burnt kettle]

when I started they teached assembler and C that are closer to the metal

at a basic level not super advanced

but enough to understand the basics of how the machine works

[orchid brook]

but would it be leetcode style

[graceful mason]

I've only used codility but I imagine the questions are kind of similar to leetcode? Applying for an internship I had 3 questions as sort of an initial screening exercise before the interview, and when applying for an actual position they gave me a similar question but I solved it live with them

[orchid brook]

Ahh

How intense are these interviews though

Like im scared of the interviews really i can do as many internships and projects as possible but these layers of interview scare me

[orchid brook]

So is that what a hardware engineer actually is

Like mostly electrical engineering stuff?

[vapid jay]

Is doing a bot that streams netflix illegal

[reef hollow]

hi

[graceful mason]

Depends on the interviewer I guess - a good one will understand that people will be anxious and it doesn't reflect your actual job, but they want to get an idea of how you think when approached with a new problem

[hushed kestrel]

Interviews are all over the place. Some are exceptionally stupid, others are even more so. Leetcode will prepare you pretty well tbh which is why everyone recommends it. Every interview at some point asks for you to 'live code' and being able to spit out random data structs always helps 😐 (FAANG requires leet code)

Otherwise the best thing for you to prep code interviews is actually to interview.

[plush orchid]

Guys I’m done with the concepts of python language, and wanna know what to do next to master python!! Would some one help, and additional I did c language and java before few months, not perfect in those but want to perfect python , so what to do next?

[hushed kestrel]

What do you mean done with the concepts?

[hushed kestrel]

It's intermixed between hardware/software. You probably need to know how to latch a button in code in c while also knowing how to design a circuit so the button wont accidentally trigger an on state.

[plush orchid]

I’ve read the full course of python by code with Harry!! I mean watched in YouTube !

It’s like around 10 hours or something , and he almost covers every important concept

[hushed kestrel]

There is no such thing as 'mastering python' as much as 'mastering python that does x'

If that is datascience, task automation, excel file manipulation, data scraping, whatever

But it sounds like you just got the basics down which is freaking awesome. The next thing I would do is start being able to learn how to do basic/really useful shit in python. Go through

Automate the boring stuff with python

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/2e/
This will teach you how to:

• Open/modify/save excel files
• Manipulate your computer's mouse/keyboard with fake inputs
• Download lots and lots of stuff in the web
• Regex string match (Super powerful string matching)
• Manipulate images

[orchid brook]

ahh but do i have to have like real world experience on the circuit side or would classes be enough

[plush orchid]

Where can I learn to do all these?

[hushed kestrel]

It depends on the need. I was self taught more/less. I was able to get multiple of these jobs. I feel I am pretty bad at circuits but I have lab experience

[orchid brook]

ahh

[hushed kestrel]

The website!

[plush orchid]

Like, is there any?

[hushed kestrel]

The one I linked you

[crude needle]

Hello everyone, I know python except flask but I do not know which job opportunities suits for me as a junior developer(I do not want to become a full stack developer). Can somebody give me an idea. How should I continue?

[orchid brook]

Because i was wondering like tbh im very passionate about app dev because ive been exposed to this and i like the idea of software engr but then again i would also love to work in a hardware position if possible and im a computer engineering student so should I keep my internships/projects software oriented? Or should I focus on getting real life hardware experience?

[plush orchid]

Okay that one !! And i was suggested to start doing small projects to get better understanding, what does the small projects mean, I’ve never did one !! What are those and how to do

[hushed kestrel]

Personally I moved away from hardware for software for $$$ reasons.

I do a odd mixture of both now, but only in so far as I can create projects that I slap micro controllers onto and do shitty automation tasks.,

[orchid brook]

yeah that’s what i was thinking unless the hardware company is like intel apple or some faang tier company software usually pays better right

but for those hardware ish positions at the top companies what are the requirements really like

[hushed kestrel]

Software pays more per time invested into the skilll

You can get paid a lot of money doing hardware.

For hardwareish positions at the top companies?

I work in faang next to a hardware team

[plush orchid]

Anyone have idea ?

[hushed kestrel]

Typically you go through the book, learn some useful techniques, try to make some useful programs

[plush orchid]

Oh, so those are called the projects? Okay

I’ve never did one so I didn’t have any idea regarding those

[hushed kestrel]

I am a professional Project Person.

Doing a project is just completing a useful task that has impact.

You could call changing all the lightbulbs in your house a project if you want

Programming projects can take 20 minutes to days, weeks, years.

Being able to start a thing, work on it, and complete it is how useful work gets done and how typically it gets judged

[orchid brook]

How would you say the hiring process is for faang/similar company

like what bullet points do applicants need to hit

[hushed kestrel]

I only got in personally because I worked in a startup that gave me direct experience into a cross functional role.

(I did a year of image tracking analysis on the raspberry Pi with a CNC test setup in various lighting conditions)

[hushed kestrel]

To get into FAANG typically you need to reach out to a recruiter. These people will talk to anyone. You get a relevant job description for different kinds of jobs, you tailor your resume, then they send this over to the direct manager who is trying to fill the position. You then go through a few rounds of interviews.

You don't need to worry about your applications, you just need to find the recruiters who hire

[orchid brook]

are the interview rounds same for hardware positions

[hushed kestrel]

Unless you can get an internship / have someone recommend you personally

[orchid brook]

Or are they not for freshers usually

[hushed kestrel]

The process will be similar.

[orchid brook]

Is the recruiting process same for internships

[hushed kestrel]

Typically they like 2-3 years of experience for contract hires. (This is direct feedback from my manager. But they were willing to skip that hiring issue because I was the one recommending them)

[hushed kestrel]

No. Internships are typically reserved for college students

[vernal rivet]

Lol

[coarse crag]

i'm not sure if this is related to the topic of the channel

[fluid elm]

sorry but u cant master python

i recommend you, using the word "how to become a advance python guy"

[fluid elm]

no one can

the definiton of master is

so u can see, complete knowledge is hard

even advance developers need help (sometimes)

[vapid jay]

This is so true! I used to have a colleague that was great with Excel VBA, and she helped me learn it. Still, sometimes I could still correct her when she missed small things

[fluid elm]

humans make mistake 🙂

fact

[hollow wasp]

I am discussing tutoring someone in one-on-one sessions and now the question of pay has come up.

How much have you charged previously? If specific rates can't be discussed here, what should I consider when picking my price?

[vapid jay]

Assuming intermediate knowledge on your side, I think the minimum wage in your country + 10-20% is fair. The added amount is because you cannot work many hours with tutoring most of the time

[near ocean]

is the tutoring 1on1 lectures or is it you helping them with problems ad hoc?

if its just lectures then its easier, you could go off how long it would take you to go through them and also charge a bit extra for the time it took you to put them together

[hollow wasp]

One-on-one lectures where I will be giving them stuff to do and walking it through with them. Essentially teaching them Python.

[near ocean]

Do you have an estimate of the length of the entire lecture series and their ability?

[hollow wasp]

From my understanding so far we will be starting from the beginning. There is not a defined "end". We're discussing hourly rates and not a total at the end

[hollow wasp]

Yeah I was thinking something like this. I also have a reference of what friends of mine get working at other players, but like you said I won't be working the same type of hours.

[near ocean]

quick google through tutoring services shows me 1on1s online going for 35-50 GBP per hour for "Computer Science"

https://tutorful.co.uk/results/computer-science what im going off of

I'm not sure I would charge this amount unless it was my only income

[hollow wasp]

Yeah I felt that was kind of high as well, this is not my day-to-day job really

[solar valve]

Hi guys, I have finished MITx data science program online, and since then, handled a few projects for my research

I was wondering if there are any popular websites that provide casual projects, like one time projects, I could pick up, get more experience and earn some money on the side

[near ocean]

I would go for half, maybe even a third of the median in that range if my imposter syndrome really kicks in

[solar valve]

I googled and there are a few websites, but wanted to know if there are reliable and popular ones

[near ocean]

many such websites, but i would start with looking at the repository of projects in !kindling

most of them are actually github repos themselves, with a readme listing projects by category, lang, etc
stuff like https://github.com/The-Cool-Coders/Project-Ideas-And-Resources

[solar valve]

thanks a lot. I dont know what is kindling, but I will check out the website

[near ocean]

!kindling its a command here provided by the bot

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[solar valve]

thanks

[spiral swift]

Please can someone help me review my Resume😭, I don't know why I'm getting rejections from my application.

[near ocean]

sure, do you wanna post it here as an image? make sure to remove your name, phone number, etc all the identifying info

[spiral swift]

Oh thanks, I'd do that now.

[fringe lily]

Na show with i need to see if he done it right

[near ocean]

uh what?

[spiral swift]

Here it is, I have cropped the out identifying infos from it

[lapis wind]

Mmm I'm not sure if this is the same everywhere, but I know some employers can have issue with people's employment history being made up of lots of small stays at companies, in the sense that they see it as you jumping from job to job for a couple months at a time, so if they take you on, they may need to hire someone all over again as you leave after a couple months.

[mortal wedge]

It's why you generally want to stay at roles for 1-2 years, it looks better on your resume

It used to be that 1 year was too short, but times have changed to be more acceptable to that

Be prepared to speak to it if asked

[near remnant]

I just had an interview today, and they told me that they could use the ORM query filtering from my project if I'm fine with that. Wtf

[delicate bane]

Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
i hate this question - i think i just failed an interview bc of it

[near remnant]

Bruh, they need devs for a new project and they want to use something from my project. Wtf bro, how is this possible 💀 💀

I dont even know what Im doing

[mortal wedge]

"I see myself thriving at your company"

[spiral swift]

Yeah totally, I've got quite a reasonable explanation for that, if asked.

My problem now is landing that interview/being given a chance to just talk.

And I only apply to jobs whose requirements fits my experience.

[near remnant]

I never prepare for interviews

I had so many interviews, I dont need more prep lmao

[mortal wedge]

I'm doing so many interviews today. (On the other side of the table)

[near remnant]

My suggestion is to just relax

[spiral swift]

And I am not getting interviews haha

[mortal wedge]

I'm interviewing so many people today, would have been more clear

[near remnant]

Be honest, speak slowly, be friendly

[spiral swift]

this sounds nice.

[near remnant]

But dont prepare too much, it wont work, they either like you or dont

[mortal wedge]

It's going to be almost entirely off of your resume. Try to present yourself in the best possible light. I know it's hard and may be challenging given past employment history, etc.

[near remnant]

I never prepared for any interviews and I got 4 internships before

But thats me

Im too stressed all the time and prep makes me more stressed

[spiral swift]

Yeah its what I think too, hence the reason I brought it here to see if I can get suggestions for improvement

[spiral swift]

wow 😯

[near remnant]

Its numbers game and luck

[spiral swift]

before I got my internship, I had about 4 A4 paper with already prepared answers for frequently asked interview questions.

[spiral swift]

Yeah I hope I get that luck soon

[jade rampart]

Would like to make a step and learn something new. Would like to start developing web apps, instead of apps (.exe), web apps, not sure exactly of what, could give examples though, but not sure right now what. What should I learn? Thanks in advance

[near remnant]

Lmao, dont do that

[spiral swift]

Yeah I didn't use to read them when asked. I just had them when preparing

[near remnant]

Flask, Django

[jade rampart]

by videos or docs?

[delicate bane]

bruh...i dont want to lie...im pretty sure i know myself and i wouldnt want to stay at a single company for 5 years

[mortal wedge]

Oh, of course you don't

[delicate bane]

[near remnant]

I've learned by reading documentation and building project

[mortal wedge]

But that's the answer they're looking for. They're wondering "Do I have to rehire someone for this position again soon?"

[near remnant]

Staying at a company for 5 years? Lmao

[mortal wedge]

It's a completely unreasonable question

The 5 year part, I mean

[near remnant]

Job hopping is the best way to move forward in your career

[jade rampart]

tysm!

[delicate bane]

tbh id rather be honest and have them accept the fact that i might leave, since if thats the case, they would be more than willing to write a rec letter if i did a phenomenal job

ofc this depends on the company, but i wouldnt want to work for a company that i would dread every minute of

[spiral swift]

My answer to that question so far has been too talk about what I should have learnt and be able to do, rather than where I'd be doing it

[near remnant]

I had a technical interview, passed and this final interview will be with HR, so weird. They said it will be a "general interview" about job contract and the work, legal related stuff. Its so weird, isnt it? Or im already hired? 😂

[delicate bane]

dunno

[spiral swift]

funny that you haven't met the HR before now

[delicate bane]

maybe its pay negotiating

[near remnant]

Yeah its weird.

[near ocean]

The HR thing is about "your values and whether they align with the company's"

The HR thing is about "your values and whether they align with the company's"

[summer roost]

Judging by that description, I'd assume you already have the job unless you say something stupid or offensive.

[near remnant]

Yeah, I think too

[summer roost]

it could be a culture fit interview, as mariosis says, but usually those would either be done by a technical manager or team lead, or they'd be done by HR at the resume screening step. Having one of them done by HR rather than the engineering team, and having it be done after a technical interview, would be an inefficient use of resources.

it puts a cheap filter at the end of the pipeline, rather than the start, after they've already spent a bunch of money interviewing you

my guess is that you'll get questions about what your salary expectations are. It could be that they'll make a concrete offer and want you on a call when it happens so they can gauge your reaction. If they do make an offer, they'll likely spend a while on that call laying out what their benefits are as well - at least if you're in the US, where benefits can make up a big portion of your total comp.

[near ocean]

The company that gave me my offer recently did things this way
Technical interview and then HR call, they were even supposed to be on the same day but the recruiter messed up
Got the offer 2h after the HR call

[spiral swift]

wow.

[near ocean]

The HR call is pretty standard and should be faked imho
Remember, HR people are not on your side

(IANAL)

[spiral swift]

hey @near ocean , what do you think I can improve on this?

[spiral swift]

hmm. I wonder sometimes if i should trust them when they say, what you say here doesnt affect your offer here or anything

[near ocean]

First thing i see is that giant block of white space
You should also make the date formatting consistent, some are left aligned, others not

[true harness]

it's too long, should be 1 page

[near ocean]

Everything you say affects your offer at all stages of the process

I also think the content for each experience part is too long

[spiral swift]

Okay thanks so for your inputs, I'll adjust them accordingly and also try to make it one page, @true harness

[true harness]

could probably cut out volunteer stuff and interests to save space

[near ocean]

I'd cut down the skills section than volunteering

[mortal wedge]

I'm reviewing resumes right now and they're all 3+ pages and I hate it

You don't want someone making hiring decisions to hate your resume before you've even spoken to them, lol

Also, please proofread your resume for grammar

[near ocean]

Typos are instant turn off

[spiral swift]

I agree. I'd proofread them too, and probably hire someone to do that for me also.

[smoky quest]

Given the number of folks for whom english is a second language, I am a lot more forgiving for typos than for having too many pages

[mortal wedge]

I do check to see if english is perhaps a second language. But even if english is a second language, you should still have someone proofread your resume in that case when applying for jobs where english is the spoken language.

Agreed on the number of pages, whew

[honest pivot]

I'm a huge grammar freak, but I've learned to be quite forgiving of it

I received two CVs recently with work history in chronological order, now that was strange

[near ocean]

Its not about the language, its about attention to detail imho
If you have typos in your CV then youre not looking over things twice and thrice and that is more telling about how you work

[ebon prawn]

I'm new in python but still don't know what path to take with it

[near ocean]

Do some more learning then until you hit a wide enough range of python things that you have a favourite
Beginners dont get to pick a path

[near remnant]

yeah I think I've got the job already, they even told me to install Linux on my PC lmao..😂

[near ocean]

Lmao red flag

[ebon prawn]

Thank you

[near ocean]

Some joking aside, people dont get to tell me to install stuff on my personal devices
Give me a laptop if you want me to work from home

[near remnant]

the company is in US, I'm from Europe

lmao

but i dont want to use my pc for work bruh

[near ocean]

what would you do if they ask you to register your PC to MDM (mobile device management)

[near remnant]

what is that

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> troll

[near ocean]

where I work, if you register your personal devices they get the right to remotely lock it down and even wipe it

[near remnant]

lmao

well, I guess this is why I'm going to have this HR interview after the techical interview

hopefully they will tell me all the things I need to know

[near remnant]

don't think its going to happen

company is too small for that

[near ocean]

do they handle sensitive data? are they going to let you access their source code on a device they dont manage?

[shadow moss]

MDM is extremely accessible

[near ocean]

mine's 20 people

[shadow moss]

Microsoft InTune is per person and 100% cloud

[near remnant]

i dont know anything mate

[smoky quest]

Unless you are a contractor, it's odd for them to not provide you a device

[near remnant]

yeah, its a contractor type of a job, really great salary but not sure if I should take it...I think I'd rather accept a low paying job in my country

whats your opinion?

[smoky quest]

As a contractor, they don't necessarily have to provide you a device

[near remnant]

I'm aware

would it be a stupid idea to accept a contractor job as first tech job?

[shadow moss]

US company unless has zero sense will either provide you a device or set you up with VDI.

[smoky quest]

That's not a criteria in itself to make that decision.
For some people it's fine, and for some others, it's not