career-advice

[gilded valley]

I don't follow the link

[split oasis]

The people who feel bad about themselves through their career want to make others feel bad of themselves once they have the power to do so... it's normalized in their mind

[summer roost]

Also the truly talented classmates that I had weren't really toxic. They were just trying to blend in among the other non talented students
That sounds like you're describing "truly talented" people behaving poorly (not poorly enough to be "really toxic", but poorly enough to "blend in"), which aligns more with my theory (cultures that allow for toxic behavior breed more toxic behavior) than with yours (stressed people have toxic behavior).

[split oasis]

They think it's normal to make others endure emotional pain because they endured it... they also want to feel superior to others because of some inferiority complex they acquired... and sadly since they stuck for long enough to become more efficient than newcomers in an industry that lacks enough good talent, these people are retained.

[summer roost]

even by your theory, wouldn't the same thing happen if everyone was talented, because even among the talented people there would be a spectrum of talent?

[gilded valley]

So your argument is that:

1. video games have disproportionate amounts of now senior developers who started off being bad.
2. The aforementioned developers suffered more than their equivalents in other industries because (?)
3. these former incompetents want to force new juniors to suffer

[dim pelican]

That argument counter acts the “if you really desperate you’d do anything” argument. You can’t be desperate and thriving. If you’re thriving you aren’t desperate. If you are desperate you aren’t thriving.

[split oasis]

Not when they are talented enough to satisfy demand at a "reasonable" cost... perhaps the top 1% talented people won't increase profits in any significant amount to even bother.

[split oasis]

Perhaps you can understand it like that 😂

[summer roost]

what do profits and costs have to do with anything? Your argument was about an inferiority complex

[gilded valley]

I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Those 3 points seem to be your explanation

You keep mixing up disparate ideas

[split oasis]

It has to do with retaining toxic employees... a toxic culture has a "cost" and the added benefit of retaining senior employees might not be justified with the reward (profits or whatever)

[dim pelican]

Toxicity isn’t breed from the bottom, it stems from the top abuse trickling down.

[summer roost]

wouldn't a company where everyone is the best of the best have a greater incentive to retain toxic employees? Since less talented employees are more easily replaced, and more talented employees are harder to replace?

[split oasis]

I'm sorry I wasn't trying to address so many questions but now I am 😂

[dim pelican]

Also if the top 1 percent was enough to sustain the bottom 99 in a general principal then America would be way better off than it is current.

[gilded valley]

There is 1 question afaics. Why does the video game industry continue to have such a toxic culture?

[summer roost]

compared to other types of software development in particular.

[split oasis]

Not if the reward doesn't justify it

[summer roost]

I don't understand what you mean

the reward of retaining a toxic but high performing employee is not needing to hire and train a replacement, right?

[split oasis]

Let's talk about janitors? Would you rather employ the top 1% janitors or the average janitor? Would you be able to justify the cost of having the most efficient janitors?

Moreover if you wanted to double the amount of janitors would you be willing to pay more than twice what you are paying already in just salaries?

[summer roost]

I'd rather employ the average janitor, of course, and yes, I'd be willing to pay more than twice as much to acquire the new talent

For what it's worth, I'd estimate the cost of replacing a senior engineer is roughly a 6 month loss of productivity, compared to retaining an existing one. The cost of replacing a janitor is substantially lower.

[split oasis]

Exactly

Now imagine the cost of replacing a game developer... do you expect it to be the same as your average software engineer?

[gilded valley]

Yes

[summer roost]

Approximately, yeah.

[split oasis]

I don't

[summer roost]

why not?

[split oasis]

Because I think most people go into game development because of passion and not talent and most find it more challenging than what they expected... at least emotionally

[dim pelican]

If you are turn over a position twice a year you are spending more money than turning over someone paid double once a year. It’s not just the salary, you are also paying to train and set up their benefits each time. So while two 30k a year compared to a single 60k a year seems even, you are losing more money in the two 30k because you have say 4K worth of training for each, the cost of paying other people to set them up in the various systems, etc

[summer roost]

the cost of replacing a game developer is a little bit lower than the average cost of replacing a software developer, because game developers are paid a bit less on average, and because it takes approximately the same amount of time for a new game developer to become productive as any other new developer.

[split oasis]

Wow if this is true then my argument has no foundations

[gilded valley]

You lose an average dev, you hire an average dev. Why does the talent affect the hiring process any more than it affects the day to day?

[summer roost]

yeah, it's totally true. There's also a good deal more uniformity in game dev stacks than in general software dev stacks, so I'd actually expect training the replacement to be a bit cheaper as well.

[split oasis]

Then perhaps game dev isn't like physics

Perhaps it's a race to the bottom? 😂

[summer roost]

I don't think "race to the bottom" explains the toxic cultures, though it does explain the depressed wages.

[split oasis]

The way I was explaining the wages was... wage disparity due to talent and experience

As @dim pelican mentioned paying 2 people that perform half as good as someone else is more expensive than the efficient person... so they get paid even less

There are game developers that get paid in the 200k's

[near ocean]

I think im going to doubt that figure

[summer roost]

sure. I know Google devs who get paid in the 700k's.

[split oasis]

Yes please do 😂

[summer roost]

like, personally know, am friends with, go out for dinner/drinks with.

[dim pelican]

Median wage for game dev is about 67k a year. For a software dev it’s about 88k

[summer roost]

200ks is not as good a salary in software dev as you might think

[dim pelican]

No, that was not skilled base. It was livable wage based as my message before it

[summer roost]

I actually know someone who just got his first software dev job after completing a physics PhD who's getting ~$180k

(or, was when he got the job - might've gotten raises since then)

[dim pelican]

Netflix averages like half a million right?

[summer roost]

that sounds high for "average", but half a million is a reasonable amount for the top ~10% of engineers.

[split oasis]

What job especially

[dim pelican]

Well they don’t have the same benefits as say google. It’s all cash rather than stocks and such.

[near ocean]

This doesnt sound like game dev positions

[split oasis]

Physicists with PhD have skill sets that are not comparable with those of a software engineer

[gilded valley]

The top 10% of software devs are paid 160k+

[summer roost]

levels.fyi does say $514k for a Netflix engineer. Higher than I'd have expected.

[dim pelican]

Stonks. Or I guess lack of lol

[gilded valley]

The BLS data doesn't include equity, but 50% of pay in equity sounds high to me

[summer roost]

One of the developers on my team is a physicist with a PhD. He's a perfectly good software engineer.

[summer roost]

I don't know the details. Something satellite related for a defense contractor.

[split oasis]

I mean that you can justify 180k as starting salary for them ... but if the guy is doing quantum stuff for instance that's not something you can compare with a software developer

[dense mesa]

Blind users be like post tc or gtfo

[split oasis]

It's like what they say about coding being like typing and programming like writing... the guy is writing using his physics skill set

[gilded valley]

What does a typical TC breakdown look like for developers?

[summer roost]

depends entirely on the company.

[dense mesa]

If we were in America then like 200k starting for big N, higher for quant

[split oasis]

@dense mesa we are all typing here but we can't write about the same stuff because we have different areas of expertise

[summer roost]

my US company is ~80% salary and ~20% discretionary cash bonus for

[dim pelican]

I’d be okay with 75k rn lmao.

[summer roost]

oof.

my first job out of college 13 years ago was $82.5k

[dim pelican]

Well I know I’m lacking but willing to learn. But I learn better when thrown into something. So that’s a high risk for a company to take imo.

[gilded valley]

BLS data includes bonuses. 300k being achievable for the top 10% does not track with that data

[split oasis]

A less saturated market? 😂

[gilded valley]

I meant salary Vs cash bonus Vs options/equity

[summer roost]

no, the middle of the great recession

[dim pelican]

A less dependent market. Think about all the advancements we’ve had in the past 13 years.

[summer roost]

a substantially more saturated market, I believe.

[dense mesa]

I was lumping it all into tc, there's a lot of info on blind

[gilded valley]

Yeah, I just want a picture of how much is coming from equity so I can better get an understanding of the BLS data

[summer roost]

depends entirely on the company.

[dim pelican]

That was what like 2009? Smart phones weren’t able to take pictures of anything far away, cars weren’t driving themselves. Streaming was basically unheard of. Online gaming wasn’t hosting a literal 100 people on a single server etc.

[summer roost]

for instance, if the company isn't public, options/equity are essentially worthless.

[smoky quest]

We call these "hands" over here 😉

[gilded valley]

Sure. But unless it's 50+% on average coming from equity, 300k is not the average for a top 10% dev

[split oasis]

@summer roost this is off topic but what do you think would make me more money with a physics and math degree fresh out of college 😂

[summer roost]

I didn't get a smart phone until 2013

[dense mesa]

Quant

[summer roost]

though WoW was popular already

[split oasis]

What exactly?

[summer roost]

the things used for typing/programming/writing

[dense mesa]

Cars been driving themselves for nearly 100 years

[dim pelican]

That’s a isometric game right? Only XY rather than XYZ locations being sent over the network.

[split oasis]

I've only read the name but that's it. What are you estimates as entry and average

[summer roost]

I... dunno. Never actually played it.

[dense mesa]

For US it's like $100-200k for entry level software engineering, tc

[summer roost]

faster networks are more common now than they were 15 years ago, though computers are only barely faster...

[dim pelican]

Like on the same level of the current cars like Tesla and Honda and such or like cruise control? Lol

[summer roost]

moore's law has fallen off.

or at least - single threaded speed is only about as fast as it was 15 years ago. The big change since then has been in number of cores.

[split oasis]

Okay I'll research that and if I can handle it then I might go in that direction

[dense mesa]

The history of autonomous vehicles is very interesting, there's been developments that allowed for nearly FSD around 2009, but these were heavily restricted by legislation

[summer roost]

https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html

for a reminder about what computing in 2010 was like 😄

[dense mesa]

It's one of the most competitive fields in the West

[dim pelican]

Nice. I would imagine we’ve made significant changes since then though right? Like better AI at the least.

[split oasis]

Well, if I don't like it then I'll avoid it 😂

[summer roost]

"no"

[dim pelican]

Oof

[gilded valley]

We definitely have better ai.

[summer roost]

yes, but full self driving that doesn't kill an unacceptable number of people is still a pipe dream

[dense mesa]

For autonomous and intelligent systems, there have been pretty big advancements in the past 10-15 years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_self-driving_cars

[gilded valley]

It is not a pipe dream, it's a practical inevitability. Right now we can't do it for all road types, but we can for a lot and when we can it is safer than humans

Or at least as safe

[dim pelican]

“1939” no I can believe that. People are dumb. Prime example: McDonald selling more quarter pound burgers over Burger King third pound because 4 is bigger than 3 so you get more meat.

[summer roost]

I expect that we'll have fully autonomous trucks for transcontinental shipping within the next 10 years.
I'll be very surprised if fully autonomous taxis for city transportation happen any time in the next 20 years.

[dim pelican]

Didn’t back to the future 2 predict that too lol.

[summer roost]

highways are self-driving on easy mode.

[dim pelican]

Straight throught Kansas. Flat and straight lol

[summer roost]

few turns, no pedestrians, well marked, good GPS coverage, etc.

[mental girder]

Yes automatic trains

[gilded valley]

We have self driving that does ok in cities

[split oasis]

Are you sure they consider people with a bachelor's then? Fresh out of college? 😂

[dense mesa]

Fully autonomous taxis/pods already exist, legislation and different regulatory bodies are the main block

[summer roost]

and, ya know, deaths.

[dim pelican]

I applied to jobs saying I am pursuing an AS and got more replies than just my GitHub. You don’t even have to finish college it seems, just be willing to put yourself in crippling debt.

[gilded valley]

If it's fewer deaths then we'd have from human drivers, that's fine

[summer roost]

it's not.

[gilded valley]

Why?

[summer roost]

because self driving cars are still worse at driving than humans

[gilded valley]

I don't care if an algorithm or a human kills me - I just want the risk to be lower

[summer roost]

https://insideevs.com/news/495428/tesla-full-self-driving-anxiety-inducing-unprotected-lefts/ - if you haven't seen this video, watch it.

[dense mesa]

There's a lot of studies that have shown (with pretty good sample sizes) that human mortality is reduced with FSD vehicles

[summer roost]

right - we're a long way from the risk being lower.

[dim pelican]

Like the the moral question of is a car AI should hit an old lady or two children if it can’t slow down fast enough?

[split oasis]

Cropping debt? You mean college? ✅ check ✔️

[gilded valley]

We're really not. But there's not much value in arguing about the risk without relevant data which I don't want to dig for on mobile

[summer roost]

whatever, not my area, but as a software dev, I'm terrified of self driving cars.

not an on-topic discussion to have, though, anyway 🙂

[dense mesa]

Intelligent systems aren't designed to make such decisions, it's a series of optimisation calculations which gets passed to an onboard control system and then to the ECU

[split oasis]

What I'm reading is that PhD's are preferred and masters are sufficient for Quant 😂

[dense mesa]

I think in the context of pursuing a career in this is fine, it's a very interesting research area with a lot of development, just the money is lacking

[gilded valley]

The fact a car can make this decision puts it head and shoulders above human drivers who don't have the time to make said decision. The trolley problem is entirely irrelevant to discussing about whether fsd is possible or a good idea. But this is ot now.

[summer roost]

I'll say: it certainly doesn't help that Tesla is the face of self-driving tech, despite having the worst self-driving tech of any of the competitors in the space.

[dense mesa]

They take a lot of people straight out of undergrad

[summer roost]

consumers think about Tesla rather than, say, Waymo when they think about self-driving.

[gilded valley]

I agree. Elon Musk is definitely setting FSD back by over selling it

[dim pelican]

It was so hard to think of someone else to give as an example. I definitely didn’t want to say just Tesla

[dense mesa]

https://comma.ai

[split oasis]

Well I was already working on this kind of stuff... even have a minor in economics so I might be fine... thank you for the recommendation. I'll look for jobs later 😅

[summer roost]

the math involved in physics dovetails nicely with quant finance, but also potentially with machine learning engineering and data science and natural language processing

kinda with 3d graphics as well

any of the math-heavy types of software dev would benefit from bringing in someone who majored in Physics.

[dense mesa]

Alt data 🤤

Historical prices are out of fashion 😤

[summer roost]

bigger companies do look for diversity of backgrounds when bringing in devs, too, FWIW

[split oasis]

Thank you for the encouragement ❤️

[dim pelican]

Speaking of Data I am making a Data+ study guide for CompTIA. It’s based on the book from CompTIA. Flash cards, quizzes etc all on my GitHub. Making it as I progress.

Wait you have your own emote @dense mesa

[low rover]

you could look at it that way or you could look at it in that he is getting a lot of interest and investment for it and that is speeding up development

regardless of how one feels about him. i see this guy all over my news feed its insane

[summer roost]

"professional troll"

[dense mesa]

From a systems engineering perspective (idk about the software/architecture side), Tesla autopilot has very good and robust performance

[summer roost]

hasn't Musk been pushing Tesla away from LIDAR?

[smoky quest]

their access to dataset is also unparallel

[dense mesa]

They're quite open with how the subsystems are designed and interact, no one has kicked up a fuss about bad implementation yet

[dense mesa]

Yes but a lot of connected industries are, lidar is a massive cost driver and you don't necessarily need that level of detail

It's a very good career to go into, with people using stixels for scene representation, there's a lot of ways to start this stuff in python and get into work

Like if you can do SLAM in python, general scene extraction and computer vision type things, there's startups needing people

[vale jasper]

How to master python completely is anyone has any idea please tell me

[true harness]

you can't

[peak halo]

what does it mean to "completely master" something?

[vale jasper]

@peak halo master means to learn all the topics

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[peak halo]

you could learn the basics and then read Fluent Python, I guess.

[summer roost]

you will most likely never accomplish that, then. It's not even a particularly useful goal. The language has a ton of things in it that you will most likely never need.

[dull lantern]

@vale jasper your energy and powers good

but the idea must be improved a bit

[summer roost]

most people never "master" driving a car. They get good enough at driving a car to use it to get where they need to go, but they'd never be able to win a stock car race.

It's not that it's impossible to perfect your skills so much that you reach that top echelon, it's that for most people it's not worth it. There's rapidly diminishing returns on investment.

that's pretty analogous to the situation with a programming language like Python. The effort difference between learning enough to write pretty much anything you could ever want to write and learning everything is astronomical.

[merry pond]

anyone down to read my cover letter?

[dense mesa]

Don't ask to ask, send it here with any personal information removed and you can get more effective feedback quicker

[dim pelican]

If anyone is interested in data science I started a study guide for the CompTIA Data + cert. the information is pulled directly from their book so should be gold for the actual test. While I do have the first quiz and 3/18 lessons on GitHub, the quiz is definitely rough around the edges so keep that in mind. I’ll be polishing it abs hopefully getting it out of the terminal eventually.

https://github.com/msrogers2015/CompTIA-Data-Study-Material

[brazen trail]

this is cool, but another file format besides docx might work better for git

I didn't actually know they had a data+ cert though, I should take that, I am familiar with most of the material

[merry pond]

hmm, okay.

[honest pivot]

Some people will be bothered by "to whom it may concern". Obviously you don't know exactly who you're writing to, but you can address it something like "dear hiring manager", or "recruitment team", or "(whatever) team" if you know at least what sort of position it is.

[merry pond]

Yeah, I was thinking about that. I actually rewrote the 2nd paragraph completely. Might repost once I'm done.

[merry pond]

thing is, a research group doesn't have a hiring manager. Should I just write Dear Mr. and Mrs. or something like that?

[honest pivot]

Ah, I didn't see it was a research group. Most likely whoever's running it has a PhD, so I wouldn't go with Mr./Mrs.

Most universities list on their website who is in the research groups. You could probably find a name. But you can also just write "Dear (blah) research group". It's not super important what the salutation says, as long as it's not wrong (and there are people out there who will be specifically offended by "To whom it may concern", because that's what you would see on mail advertisements that are just sent to an address without even knowing who lives there).

[merry pond]

Actually I apply on an institute level which lists 4 groups. Maybe the departement secretary looks at it first or a phd of one specific group. In the end, I wasn't able to figure that out.

[honest pivot]

Then address the Department, not a specific person in it

[merry pond]

how do you address an institute?

[honest pivot]

Dear (name of institute)

[merry pond]

Dear Institute for Computer Vision? ^^

[honest pivot]

Sounds good to me

Nobody will actually read this line, unless it comes across a professor's desk and says "Mr./Mrs.", haha

You could also do something like "Dear (team) at (institute)". If those are things you can fill in. But it's not a big deal.

[merry pond]

I actually never addressed any prof at my university with their title but simply the usual very formal and nice German "sentence". but I guess it's just the culture here. Usually they instantly start to introduce first name basis but yeah, in English it might sound weird. haha

[merry pond]

Yeah, I'll do some digging, just noticed something i might be able to figure out more

[honest pivot]

Yeah, I would feel pretty weird if someone called me Dr. directly, it's more important when listing people and their qualifications.

But addressing a letter is different from talking to someone, even if you would just use their first name when talking.

[merry pond]

thanks for the help

[dim pelican]

What format do you suggest?

[honest pivot]

Markdown

[dim pelican]

How would I format that door 3x5 index cards?

[near remnant]

If I've got referred to a company by the company's lead developer do I have better chances to land the job? I know the lead dev guy and he told me that we need to have a formal conversation / interview but it would be better if I could start as soon as possible so I can start learning the company stuff sooner. Also he will be the only one present during the interview.

[dawn leaf]

I mean this is basically best case scenario
Make sure to negotiate before you accept

[smoky quest]

it depends.
Referrals can go from "never actually referring you but telling you they did", to "they are the child of a board member, hire them".
In your case, given they are the only one interviewing you, and there would be only one interview, it sounds like it would come down to if they just want to do it for the paperwork or if they have high hopes for you but still want to see how you answer the questions

[steel coyote]

hello everyone, I am in need of help for my school homework. I have an assignment to do a very very short interview with a person who has a job related to what I'm interested in (in my case, CS-related job). In other words, if anybody here works or has worked at a CS-related job and is willing to spare 5 minutes of their time on either a DM interview or preferably a voice interview, I would genuinely appreciate it.

Help a brother out!!!!!!

[graceful mason]

At my company they give specific bonuses to people who are hired through referral (both in how they approach hiring them and by paying the referrer) since statistically referalls from people in the company tend to be better-fit employees.

[near remnant]

Okay, so like 90% percent it's in the bag, right?

[summer roost]

When someone personally invites you to interview and then says that they'll be the only person interviewing you, it strongly suggests that they already have a positive opinion of you and just want to check that they're not missing something major. So yeah, I'd say the job is yours to lose

[graceful mason]

I'd still go in there as if you have as much of a chance as anyone else to not make a bad impression, but hopefully you can be more relaxed during your interview knowing that they want you there

[tranquil crest]

Hi everyone!

[near remnant]

Yeah, thank you mate for your input.

[near remnant]

I mean the teams invitation has only me and the lead dev. So I assume there won't be anyone else.

[near ocean]

I wouldnt quite make that assumption tbh
Maybe they'll all gather in a meeting room and use one person's account to join the call

[near remnant]

That would be super weird

[summer roost]

Why would that be weird?

[near remnant]

Because everyone is working full remote at the company from different countries

[summer roost]

Ah. Another possibility is that they plan to forward the invite to other people before the interview happens, depending on who is available

I wouldn't assume it's a 1 on 1 interview unless you were told it would be

[near remnant]

Yeah, I guess im in a good place. I should not be worried.

[brazen trail]

if you have a one-on-one with someone that works there, and then have an interview with the people that hire a while later, that's a good situation

[rapid fractal]

would i need to know a lot of python to get a good career in game development?

how much programming in general would i need to know, other than being familiar with the engine

[brazen trail]

I'm not sure if any major (aka AAA games, etc) game engines use Python, to be honest

like, I'm sure there's an exception that proves the rule

but learning python would be good for like... the tools that help you do your job

[rapid fractal]

yea but im pretty sure youd at least need that and a lot of other programming knowledge to have on ur background and i think you need a computer science degree

[brazen trail]

yeah and it also depends on like, what aspect of game development you are interested in... if you are writer you could get away without knowing any programming 🙂

[rapid fractal]

im interested in pretty much everything tbh

[brazen trail]

I think game development is a good hobby for any programmer

[rapid fractal]

i wanna be a lead level designer or just lead designer

[rapid fractal]

im learning programming because i feel like i have to if i wanna be a game dev

[brazen trail]

I've heard mixed things about the industry itself

[rapid fractal]

oh yea, its horrible

but i wanna get into it because im incredibly passionate about video games and the impact that they have as an art form

[brazen trail]

if I was young and could handle 70+ hour/weeks and crazy deadlines, I'd have a different attitude maybe 😉 but I am lazy and just want to do my 9-5 and get my check haha

[rapid fractal]

video games are one of the few things that im actually smart and knowledgable at

[rapid fractal]

yea im 14 and i dont have any classes for the next 2 years that teach this stuff and i feel like i need to figure it all out super early, or im gonna fail

i wanna be a memorable or impactful influence on gaming as a whole, and if i can just make one person happy with something i did when developing the game, then i can die happy

[brazen trail]

it's okay if you don't have everything figured out

I didn't have my first development job until i was in my 30s

[rapid fractal]

how old are you now? i hope you dont mind me asking..........

[brazen trail]

I'm pushing 40

[rapid fractal]

what kind of field do you work in programming-wise?

[brazen trail]

a lot of my work is sorta devops stuff, working on build systems and test automation for various projects

I get down deep in the code sometimes, but I mostly leave that to the engineers

[summer roost]

You don't. Go to college, get a degree. You've got about 8 years before you need to figure anything out.

[steel coyote]

Hello,
If anybody here works/has worked in a CS related job, I'd like to ask you a few questions in a voice chat. I'm a high school student so I just want to have a quick 5-10 minute 1 on 1 talk with a person who has worked in the industry to get a good overview of the whole thing. I'd genuinely appreciate any help!

[rapid fractal]

ok, good to know. honestly im just stressed out about this because i think i need to learn at a young age

[rapid fractal]

lol i havent but you have the same google pfp as me lmfao

[brazen trail]

yeah young people have to much pressure on them these days, you should be playing dnd and trying not to get in trouble 😄

[rapid fractal]

cool

[brazen trail]

I mean, do your homework, maybe a little more beyond that if you really want, but don't stress about the future just yet

[pulsar drum]

It's good to take initiative and start exploring your interests early, but don't feel pressured to have it all figured out yet. That's what post-secondary education is for.

[summer roost]

You don't. It's not even necessarily helpful. It doesn't hurt to learn more before college, but it's not necessary.

[rapid fractal]

alright thanks for the positive and uplifting responses, it really means a lot!

[delicate bane]

i think imo its more important to know how you yourself learn/what your learning style is, so you would know best how you learn

so like more meta-learning

[rapid fractal]

yea

[grand turret]

@rapid fractal I think you're right to want to start learning early. My recommendation is to really learn a C-based language thoroughly if you want to work on the core of AAA 3D games (the game engine). That could mean Python, Java, Javascript, C, C++. The reason I say this is that once you know one of the those languages, it's a lot easier to learn another. But the truth is that you'll need to teach yourself a decent amount of math if you want to learn that earlier than college. You'd be trying to learn linear algebra (something most people wait until college to learn). But another truth is that most game studios buy a pre-built game engine from another gaming company, and then use that to build their game.

@rapid fractal Lots of people practice level design in their teenage years. A great way to start is using a game that already has some built-in level-design (modding) feature. Try some levels and get some feedback from others as to how they like them and keep improving them. It's also a great way to figure out whether you enjoy making them.

[rapid fractal]

Alright thanks!

[vapid jay]

Hi

[grand turret]

@rapid fractal If you want to see an example of what's possible, search on YouTube for "12 year old who owns 3 Ferraris". You might find it interesting how he says he made his money. It's OK to wait for college, but by no means do you have to wait for college.

[rapid fractal]

Alright cool! Thanks for sharing

[limber oriole]

Hi my name is Stepan and im russian

[sudden rover]

hey guys, it's been a few months i'm studying.. i'd like to know which level i'm at, are there any tests/mock interviews that can give me an idea what i need to learn to better myself?

[merry pond]

Some time ago I heard a podcast about a company that basically fits positions to your skills. They do so by scanning your github etc. but I also think they provide coding challenges. Anyone knows what I talk about?

[granite void]

Anyone from India working in an IT company?

I need to know how to get a job.

[buoyant anchor]

Good afternoon guys🖐️

[gentle kite]

The thing about mock interviews is that they don't give a full picture or evaluation of a candidate, just an idea of what they do or do not know about the few, selected topics the interviewer decided to touch

Interview questions will in my experience never be about the language itself

In fact, the syntax or language itself is less interesting in most cases, it's how you're able to use it, which is not something you will learn how to, within a few months of studying "a language"

Things you could be asked are, among others, something like "What is a design pattern? Which is your favourite? Can you explain what MVC and Factory is?" or "What are the SOLID principles and which ones do you think do and do not easily apply to Python?" or "What's the difference between DFS and BFS, and which one would you be able to implement recursively the easiest?" or "What should you be aware of when dealing with Threads in Python?" or "What is the difference between Concurrency and Parallelism?"

Python is just a tool at the end of the day.

[honest pivot]

Also, if someone asks you to name a design pattern, please have in mind a better one than "singleton", I'm tired of hearing that 😛

[near ocean]

If someone asked me to name a design pattern in an interview i'd just end it
This isnt a school test

[honest pivot]

How would you measure someone's technical knowledge, then?

Also, it would be silly to end it, since "I don't know any design patterns" is also an acceptable answer. I try to look at the whole picture, and not knowing one specific thing doesn't disqualify someone on its own.

In fact, from a "behavioral" standpoint, I think it's important to see someone's reaction to being asked about something they don't know.

[gentle kite]

You don't have "a few months" of experience either 😛

(I assume)

[near ocean]

What do you get out of me naming some pattern tho
It doesnt mean i can implement it, not that i can even describe it

[true harness]

presumably, followup questions

[near ocean]

Why not ask directly if they know x, y pattern and can implement it instead of asking for one and then being disappointed in the interviewee's answer

[gentle kite]

Describing it could be a nice follow-up question...

[near ocean]

Seems more like a mind game than an interview question to me

[gentle kite]

Nah, it gives the interviewee the chance to lead the way a little, and feel more comfortable in an uncomfortable situation

[near ocean]

Doesnt sound very comfortable if you say "singleton" and the interviewer says " uh, you got anything better"?

[gentle kite]

if I name 3 patterns and you don't know those exact three but you know the concept of design patterns very well, and know a range of other ones, giving you the chance to explain those you know and their advantages will give a better experience, than you saying "I don't know that one either"

If you want to set up your candidate for failure, by all means name one and have them implement it and send them home with a "No thanks" if they cannot

[near ocean]

Asking about a design pattern with no other context sounds exactly how you set someone up to fail

[gentle kite]

Who says there isn't any context?

[near ocean]

Surely theres better ways to get an idea of whether they know about it

[near ocean]

This doesnt sound like theres any other context behind it

[gentle kite]

Asking somebody if they know a design pattern which isn't Singleton and if so, if they could describe it for them, isn't setting them up for failure.

You'll be giving the candidate multiple opportunities to give a good impression of their capabilities, rather than the candidate having to rely on luck for you to ask about a pattern they know well

You want to assess their knowledge, not prove that you're better than them...

[near ocean]

I dont think we're reading the same post here
If i walk into an interview, sit down and someone asked me to name a design pattern then they shouldnt "be tired of hearing that" that sounds obnoxious and i would not appreciate that as an interviewee

You caused this as an interviewer by not asking the appropriate questions lol, why not ask me if im familiar with x, y, z pattern instead

[true harness]

i think mariosis is assuming aurendii would say he would be tired of it out loud instead of just continuing like birb said

[near ocean]

You dont have to say it out loud, it could be body language or something more subtle
And it does sound like its being held against the interviewee when its not their fault lol

[gentle kite]

I don't think anyone would be so disrespectful as to say "No, please not Singleton, I'm so tired of hearing about that"

[near ocean]

Reminds me of a friend's oracle app take home project
They didnt specify a language they wanted to see used, he used C++
He got feedback saying he should have used something higher level like Java, python because "its easier to introduce bugs with C/C++ code" and cut him
If you want an interviewee to use a specific technology or language or concept then ask them to

[honest pivot]

If they say "singleton", I smile and ask followup questions for them to describe what it is and what it's used for. I'm not sure why you are assuming I would show visible annoyance. (By the way, however, Singleton is about the least useful design pattern and everyone gives an incomplete answer for what it's used for).

[woeful ivy]

Well, Im in 9th grade at the moment and wanted to ask if anyone knows what language is firstly gonna be used in school.
Since I am going to have IT next year and wanted to "preapare" a bit.

[honest pivot]

ok, but applying to Oracle and not using Java is kinda asking for it

[grizzled hornet]

Which all languages do you guys know?

[near ocean]

Yea thats what i told him lmao but he's a cpp elitist

[woeful ivy]

Only Python and if you let it count HTML and CSS

[grizzled hornet]

and others?

[summer roost]

That's not really an on topic question.

[vapid jay]

How helpful would u guys say python or coding in general is helpful for a career in neuroscience

[gentle kite]

It could be anything from Scratch (a language designed to teach programming to kids), to python, to C++ honestly

[gritty rivet]

I'm not sure we have any neuroscientists here so there may be better places to ask

[gentle kite]

however the ideas are very similar - how you can solve problems with loops and variables and all - so studying Python will definitely give you an edge even if it's another language in the end

[gritty rivet]

Can you ask someone at school maybe? This is a Python server and Python is an ideal beginner language but we don't know what your school teaches

[true harness]

^ if it's at your school, can't you ask people at your school? they would actually know the answer

[brazen trail]

I think knowing a general purpose programming language is going to be useful for anyone in the sciences. Python has the added benefit that it is has a lot of libraries and tools that can help with data analysis, creating visualizations or plots, etc. If you are going to be publishing or working with data at all it's a good choice.

[vapid jay]

@brazen trail alright ty. Im trynna learn python rn so ig im on the right direction

[tame escarp]

I think as interviewer, it's about giving people the flexibility to respond. You often don't need the answer to something as much as you wish to understand the candidate.

[celest ivy]

You might want to look onto Matlab that is used more for advance mathematics

[woeful ivy]

yeah me neither

[vapid jay]

Thanks, ill have a look at it

[near ocean]

That sounds like you're drawing conclusions from a candidate giving an easy answer to an open question and to me that doesnt sound fair

[tame escarp]

What I mean is that you can often tell a lot about a person by listening to them closely.

[near ocean]

Yea obviously, but how does that relate to the question here

[tame escarp]

I mean I would never say "Okay bad answer". But I would see how they would respond to things. Especially if they don't seem to have a wide breadth of knowledge on the subject.

Will they come up with something convoluted nonsensical or how will they approach the coversation?

[brazen trail]

a lot of the specifics of the interview process are going to depend on the position, the company, and the industry, so it's possible that any sort of mismatch here of what people consider a good or bad interview method is a mere historical accident

[near ocean]

Design patterns are pretty established, i dont think a candidate would try to make something up on the spot
But if you asked something open like "name a design pattern" and they gave you a simple easy answer, would you draw judgement from that?

[tame escarp]

Sure if you put it together with everything else from the whole interview...

[brazen trail]

there's a difference between "What is a design pattern?" (the original question) and "Name a design pattern"

the former is a more open-ended question

[near ocean]

The original question is about naming a design pattern

[brazen trail]

I was looking at a previous message, sorry, regardless, you seem pretty hooked on this one point, which was part of a joke?

[near ocean]

Im trying to understand whether me choosing the seemingly easy answer somehow detracts from my interview because the interviewer couldnt ask a more specific question

Am i supposed to pick the convoluted answer for every question? I sure wouldnt wanna work there if thats true

[tame escarp]

I mean you sound kind of unpleasant in this hypothetical, so I think that would be a bigger concern. Interviewers aren't perfect they are just normal people too and the questions might not be the best ones. Try to work with them a bit instead of giving them a smartass answer.

[ivory sluice]

if you view the interview process as a conversation, even if they ask a very pointed question of "name a X" isn't it to your benefit to use your response as the start of conversation flow about that X? to show what you know about it, or what you like or dislike about it?

then perhaps you could segue into a conversation about one of your past projects that used or didn't use that specific X

[brazen trail]

I do think it's valid to finish an interview without the intention of moving forward with the process if there were what you consider some red flags in how they asked their questions

but it's also easier to imagine such scenarios, and interviews are stressful enough, so maybe it's better to focus on other things

[honest pivot]

If someone treats an interview like a quiz show and not like a conversation, they would definitely not move on to the next step in the process

[honest pivot]

You obviously don't like the question for whatever reason. How would you assess someone's understanding of software design principles?

[near ocean]

Its not the particular question i have a problem with, its this mentality that an easy answer to an open question somehow might detract from the candidate, because the interviewer "is tired of it"

Am i supposed to pick something more complicated to appease the interviewer's boredom? That doesnt sound very nice

You're very experienced yourself, i can imagine theres better ways for you to steer a candidate to an answer you think is satisfactory through your questions

[upbeat geode]

If im 17 going 18 by next year, Would yall think its better if I went through internships in order to get a job (through return offers) or directly apply for jobs? Tryna land a full time by summer next year tbh

[summer roost]

It doesn't detract, it just makes the interviewer more likely to ask "can you name any others?"

It's also hard to rephrase the question to avoid the facile answer, so I don't blame the interviewer for a poor question in that case

[honest pivot]

It's nothing to do with Singleton being "easy" (in fact, I don't really think it is). It's more that Singleton is hardly ever actually useful. So it's surprising how often people mention it, since I would have expected someone to have encountered some more useful design patterns in their actual coding experience, which they could tell me about.

And in reality, the question isn't "Name a design pattern", it's more like in a sequence of "Do you know what design patterns are? Could you give any examples? What are they useful for?"

[summer roost]

Right. Most likely the interviewer is trying to lead up to asking you to explain a design pattern and when to use it, and singleton is the least interesting example to discuss. It's just a global variable.

[honest pivot]

It's also often misused.

[summer roost]

Sure. Like all other global variables 🙂

[honest pivot]

That's when you use a Resource Locator pattern. Then you have a static function instead of a global variable. 😉

[fierce snow]

anyone here work at FANG

[rain juniper]

do both, internships are resume item even if you don't get a job through them

[pastel thunder]

if i am from mechanical in bachelors and want CS in masters then should i meention a mechanical internship in my resume? if
1 that mech. internship is from one of the most prestigious companies and hard to get
2 i do have CS internship from good companies

[tranquil crest]

Hi

[gritty rivet]

I'd say either way is probably fine and it depends on the overall package of what your resume looks like. Probably better to expand on the CS stuff but won't hurt to include another internship if you have the space

[tame escarp]

Sure, I don't see why not. Does the job have anything to do with ME?

[buoyant anchor]

Why does my Visual Studio Code show this stuff and how can I resolve it thanks👏

[near ocean]

This isnt the right channel to ask in, move your question to #editors-ides

[buoyant anchor]

Thanks

[rotund tapir]

What recommendations are there for a future data scientist?

In the future I want to become one, I need some enlightened guidance from a current data scientist

[pastel thunder]

no i am applying for mscs

[foggy sundial]

New here! My boss is awful, I work as a data scientist at a start up, and he keeps changes deadline same day to have large amount of work ready in a day instead of the week that he previously stated as a deadline, not grateful, threatening to fire over small things, and is not appreciative, tinkers with my code and is distrustful even though he's not a coder, and I heard in a recording of a zoom meeting that I wasn't able to come to because I was sick that the other supervisor looked at my code and said it was quite advanced. Anyway, a shit of a job. Anyone has any suggestions how to find a new one? It's very difficult since I don't have a degree but I have two Machine Learning and Data Science bootcamps (one is world-recognized from Canada).

[smoky quest]

linkedin and indeed are the places to go to find jobs.

And prepare your resume and do some leetcode/refresh on interview questions

[gentle kite]

I suggest sending applications to everything you think looks interesting - those places are full of 'em yeah ^

[tired pelican]

Hi I’m new here, I’m currently just starting my coding journey, I don’t have a degree, or a job related to coding, I’m currently taking a online udemy course to learn Python, and I’m also taking an AWS course. Is it realistic to think that I can find an entry level Python job or a job related to devops 12 months out?

[boreal agate]

where to start learning python? Can you please suggest some resources

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This is the wrong channel as this is #career-advice .
You may want to try #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help

[boreal agate]

ohh sorry!

[tranquil crest]

hi!

[boreal agate]

Hi amogas (:

[dense mesa]

Hello! Do you have any questions? You like saying hi without asking anything 😉

[tranquil crest]

no I have new program and I want ask

you want see it?

[dense mesa]

Considering this is a career discussion channel, it's not the best place :)

[tranquil crest]

ok

where can you?

[dense mesa]

#python-discussion

[severe night]

Hey guys, could you tell me what made you choose Python over Java? (personally)

[vapid jay]

indentation

[vapid jay]

and dynamic typing

[limpid osprey]

Hi guys. I'm about to study A Level and I am still considering whether take further maths.

I love mathematics (like real love and quite good at it!) and also programming. I like to become software engineer in future since I am keen on creating websites and applications. But I heard many people in Quora mentioned that doing software engineering degree does not require high level math (unless I do data science and machine learning stuff, which mostly covered in CS, not Software Engineering degree). That being said, Is it worth it if I take further mathematics in A level?

(And many mentioned that A Level Further Maths is one of the hardest subject, so taking 4 subjects with it would be burden and better to drop it and make it 3 subjects...that makes me kinda worried tho)

And...yah i need opinions on whether I should keep going for having Further Maths, and whether it would be a waste if I try hard studying it but end up not utilise it in my studies or work.

[gentle kite]

My job made me switch

[gentle kite]

If you love Math and you getting a good grade in it will influence your average a lot, by all means...

Some degrees require maths, mostly engineering flavoured ones, but your local university might do things differently than mine/theirs.

[dense mesa]

If you want to study CS, definitely take further maths

[limpid osprey]

But if i want to do software engineering instead?
(Not sure whether i will do master in cs)

[dense mesa]

Take further maths and look into CS vs SWE degrees

[graceful mason]

Off the top of my head there aren't any degrees that tend to require further maths, but for applying to some of the higher-standard universities it would definitely look good.
In terms of how the content carries over things like matricies, vectors, differentiation, calculus etc have applications outside of AI and data science and would benefit you.
Couple of things to maybe think about:

• You are starting AS I assume, which means you can drop further maths after the 1st year if you find you don't like it
• CS and Software Engineering are often 90% baseline the same degree (depending on uni)

[gentle kite]

I haven't personally used math since I left whatever-corresponds-to-your-A-levels-school some 12 years ago 🙃

[limpid osprey]

What's SWE?

Owh bru im bad at abbreviation ._.
It's software engineering

[dense mesa]

Software engineering

[limpid osprey]

Wait wdym by 90% baseline?

[dense mesa]

In the UK, a competitive applicant for CS/swe will have further maths. More and more of the top unis are taking people with it, even if it's not an official requirement

[gentle kite]

OK. Our system is a little less competitive (Denmark), but I'll take your word for it. I had "Further Math" or perhaps rather an equivalent in school, too (because I like math)

[dense mesa]

My source for my specific uni is 3 years of experience helping with the curriculum for engineering, and learning from the computer science department as to how they handle admissions and general intake

[limpid osprey]

Is there any solid benefits that needs strong fundemental of maths (like Further Maths) in SWE or CS other than if im going to deal with data science, AI, machine learning, or game development?

[gentle kite]

no

[dense mesa]

Further maths will be helpful in first year, beyond that it teaches you how to think about more abstract problems

[limpid osprey]

I mean
If i do SWE (most probably) i will only touch basics of CS

[dense mesa]

Would recommend looking into the module descriptions and prereqs before you say no, it's a pretty major part for the topics that @limpid osprey listed

[gentle kite]

There are many ways to learn how to reason about a problem in different abstraction layers. Math is not a hard requirement for software development, if you don't want to dive into the math-heavy domains.

[graceful mason]

Often SWE and CS degrees are constructed from the same or similar compulsory and optional modules, so it's entirely possible to learn the same things in CS and SWE depending on the optional modules you pick

[limpid osprey]

Owhhhhhhhh

[dense mesa]

No one is saying it's a hard requirement, but for "top" UK unis it's basically an unofficial requirement

[gentle kite]

other than if im going to deal with data science, AI, machine learning, or game development?
I'm just answering his question

[dense mesa]

And a pre-uni student won't be exposed to these ways of reasoning about problems, that typically doesn't become taught until higher education. Unless you do further maths, which is the first glimpse of it

[dense mesa]

There's still many applications that help you know what's going on under the hood, beyond those listed

[gentle kite]

You're assuming he wants to enrol at a top UK university, I don't think he ever mentioned wanting to do that

[gentle kite]

I'm curious, which ones do you mean?

[dense mesa]

I'm not assuming that, it's just a statement if they are. Never said one way or the other

[limpid osprey]

Would you mind listing a little more of it? I kinda want to convince myself and my parents

[graceful mason]

You don't need strong maths to learn programming, but you are a lot more employable if you have the skills required to apply programming to more complex areas - that includes having the maths required for embedded systems/data science/game dev etc

[gentle kite]

Yeah ^ 😂

[honest pivot]

If you like mathematics then definitely look into data science

[dense mesa]

@gentle kite as well, 3D graphics and AR, anything that's to do with computer vision, cryptography if web3/general cryptobro mêmes become more popular, network optimisation and discrete maths, many more examples

[gentle kite]

While this is true I don't list and have never seen anybody list in their CVs that they did A-level math

[gentle kite]

yeah and he said:

other than if im going to deal with data science, AI, machine learning, or game development?

to which you replied that there are more. Which?

[honest pivot]

I have seen people list A levels, but honestly I find it bizarre

[dense mesa]

I've already responded with more examples and tagged you, you're being very antagonistic with responses so I'm not interested in rewriting anything. Scroll up

[near ocean]

its because HR people ask for them for some reason

[graceful mason]

Doesn't matter what you list in your CV, you need to understand the core areas required for a job

[dense mesa]

It's basically a requirement before you graduate

[near ocean]

you'll see job ads asking for 3+years experience, a masters/phd and at the bottom of the ad you'll see them ask for a levels too for some wild reason

[honest pivot]

HR is weird. I do remember they ask for GCSEs as well, lol

[gentle kite]

"3D graphics and AR, anything that's to do with computer vision, cryptography" are the same fields as "data science, AI, machine learning, or game development" m8

[limpid osprey]

🤔

[gentle kite]

I get that you know a thing or two about the UK education system, I don't doubt that one bit, but at the end of the day you do not need math in programming, unless your work domain is math heavy

[gilded valley]

Ah yes. Cryptography via machine learning

[graceful mason]

it happened in silicon valley and they nearly destroyed the world 👻

[honest pivot]

Which is why, if you do like math and don't want to be bored in your programming jobs, then you need to focus on those domains.

[dense mesa]

None of us are saying they need mathematics to work as a programmer. We're saying that it's extremely useful for applying to certain unis in the UK, if the individual is applying to conventionally "prestigious" institutions. Please stop making assumptions about what everyone is saying, the strawmen and general attitude is getting tiring

[gentle kite]

None of us are saying they need mathematics to work as a programmer
sure sounds like you did though, but maybe I read it wrong...

[dense mesa]

You're welcome to reread every message I've posted regarding this, at no point was that implied or explicitly stated

[graceful mason]

If you have the bare minimum maths skills as a programmer you're severely limiting the jobs you can work

[gilded valley]

There's plenty of benefit to knowing maths just so you can dip into ML or graphics as a normal SWE anyway - being able to approach a broad range of topics with a solid foundational knowledge is hugely valuable. It's not super important, but there definitely is some value in it. You seem to be taking offense at the suggestion that it's not worthless.

[gentle kite]

If this is your takeaway I think you need to reread some messages as well. 🙂 enjoy your day

[limpid osprey]

So basically you guys said that being a programmer doesn't need strong math, but having strong mathematical skills can boost my analytic skills, as well as apply it in data science, AI and graphics in game development, and will further boost my career? And with that in mind, taking further maths can be advantageous if im passion and strong at it?

[gilded valley]

Someone asked "is there a benefit to knowing maths" you said no, which is wrong

[dense mesa]

That's all anyone has been saying yes

[gentle kite]

I did not say that no

[dense mesa]

"no"

[gilded valley]

You literally did

[gentle kite]

Is there any solid benefits that needs strong fundemental of maths (like Further Maths) in SWE or CS other than if im going to deal with data science, AI, machine learning, or game development?

[gilded valley]

The benefit that needs it is the ability to understand said field without going into them

[gentle kite]

I think it's a matter of how you read the question. I would never , as a freaking senior architect, say that math is not a benefit lol... come on, guys...

[gilded valley]

You don't need to pin yourself to this one message. Just agree that you probably spoke slightly too broadly

[dense mesa]

@limpid osprey tldr is take further maths if you're comfortable, if you hate it during AS you can drop it

[gilded valley]

Further Maths often contains a or an extra Decision Maths unit which is 10/10 useful

[dense mesa]

I mentioned discrete maths above but it was classified as ml/ai lol

Apparently network optimisation and discrete maths falls under {data science, AI, ML, game development}

[graceful mason]

I did decision maths in a standard maths A-level but I think they started phasing it out in favour of mechanics/statistics

[limpid osprey]

I dont have decision maths unit ;-;
I only have p&s and mechanics in A level ;-;
I would pick decision if i have chance ;-;

[gentle kite]

I even recommended that they did go for the A-levels math at the very top of this conversation, I don't understand why you want me to agree that I spoke slightly too broadly...
Just drop it, I have more important things to do than argue with you about what I did or did not say. It is obvious to you, me, and Anz that Math is 100% an advantage - Anz saying that it's a requirement is wrong, regardless of how he tries to blame it on me lol.
Have a nice day Mr. Coffee

[gilded valley]

Ah. Fair enough

[limpid osprey]

Anyway thank you guys for discussion about maths in programming!!!
But in related topics about CS and SWE:
I know that CS is more theoritical and more to algorithms, AI and stuff; while SWE is more on practical, where I learn more on maintaining codes and learn to build software from A to Z.
If i want to be software engineer in future like app dev for example, should i pick SWE or CS when im in undergraduate uni?
Cause take SWE can give me broader sense about software development, but CS can give me stronger fundementals that will last long too 🤔

[dense mesa]

I literally never said it's a requirement, it's an unofficial requirement for top unis

[gilded valley]

Good to know

[dense mesa]

You have a talent for reading one thing and understanding something completely different

[gentle kite]

Likewise. At least I'm not native English, lol

[near ocean]

i would probably say that Core Maths (as it was called) A-level is a hard requirement for any stem subject at a russel group uni

[dense mesa]

I'm not native English either but thanks for yet another assumption 👍

[gentle kite]

I'm not saying you are, I'm saying I'm not lol... dude... you got problems mate 😄

[gilded valley]

The entire disagreement hinges on particulars of definitions. The takeaway is that everyone should try to be more precise and comprehensive when giving career advice

[dense mesa]

A level maths is an official requirement for CS at most UK unis, only notts and sheff I think don't require it. Further maths is always beneficial for any application

[dense mesa]

Fella we've been trying to help someone make a pretty important decision, if you'd like to target people's characters then at least do it in off topic or something. Leave it out of here

[near ocean]

Realistically, what else can you take for 4 a levels for a top uni if not core and further maths tho

[gentle kite]

I'm not the one correcting the other, you are. I've tried to end the debate twice already but you insist on getting the last word xD
Whatever...

[limpid osprey]

I feel like the argument goes non-stop tho, just repetition

[dense mesa]

@limpid osprey I've mentioned what you should do a few times now, I'm not continuing anything

[limpid osprey]

Ya i mean that the argument between two of u 👀

[dense mesa]

One strategy is to do, maths, further maths, physics and some subject you enjoy. FM and physics are the best for CS applications

That way you do 4 AS levels, where your 4th is further maths. You can drop FM if you don't like it, or physics, or stick with all 3 (not recommended)

[near ocean]

that was the popular combo when i was doing my a levels, most people did stats or bio

[limpid osprey]

Now im chosing between Chemistry or CS A level since my college offers dat
Chemistry is highly respected tho, some uni take SWE as engineering department so chem might help me get into uni
But CS is more relevant to software engineering

[dense mesa]

CS is probably the worst a level to take if you want to do CS

[near ocean]

CS is actively discouraged by universities lmao

[limpid osprey]

THATS literally what my counselors and my parents said LMAO

[dense mesa]

The teaching is poor across the UK, it will rarely teach good programming habits, and you're losing an opportunity to study something else

[limpid osprey]

Im currently at malaysia will that change

[near ocean]

i think it was in VB.net when i was doing them, you can imagine why they dont want you to take it

[dense mesa]

If you're doing international a levels then I can't infer anything about the teaching quality. But it's a well documented and researched thing in the UK that a level CS teaching is awful

[limpid osprey]

I thought it's also include python and C# other than VB.net

[gilded valley]

This is the biggest issue. 95+% of CS teachers can't teach it for shit, mostly because anyone who could teach it well wouldn't be willing to get paid 30k/y dealing with 15yos

[limpid osprey]

Owh then i think im at right track LMAO

All my CS friends keep asking me why dont i take CS A level and take programming club in college instead 👀

[gilded valley]

If you can already program well though, it's a very easy grade

[limpid osprey]

Tru

[gilded valley]

Or even if you just enjoy programming. Most universities will still count it as a STEM subject, maths/fm/cs is a perfectly reasonable set of a-levels

[limpid osprey]

Thanks a lot for a levels suggestion!

But i would like to ask for undergraduate degree is it better to take SWE or CS if i want to do software engineer or app/web developer in future?

SWE is more practical in the sense of knowing the whole process of developing/engineering a software from A to Z
But CS teaches a lot of algorithms, data and AI which gives strong fundamentals
Not sure which to pick

[near ocean]

is that going off of the syllabus or are you guessing?

[graceful mason]

Again for each uni you apply to you should look at the difference in modules between the two degrees, but in general:

• if you're more interested in some sort of team lead/project management, consider SWE
• if you're more interested in some specialist area (AI/ML, graphics, security) choose CS
  other than that there's generally no significant difference

[near ocean]

the distinction isnt standard, some schools might not even have a software engineering course and instead have a more practical CS course
you should look at the schools youre interested in

[gentle kite]

With risk of getting my head ripped off again: at the end of the day it doesn't matter a great deal which one you pick. Unless you aim for a job which is heavy in algorithms (e.g. video streaming services or teams working with millions of "rows" of data), the knowledge about algorithms you likely will learn about in SWE is sufficient for the vast majority of jobs, especially if you want to work with web or application development.
Pick the one that keeps you engaged the most and looks the most interesting to study.

[gilded valley]

I agree, I think the difference is minimal and the driver of your career is far more going to be the things around university - internships and time spent on personal projects etc

[limpid osprey]

Owh tru tru
The reason im asking maths then asking SWE vs CS is because if im not taking CS then it might be waste to take further maths 😅
But after getting you guys' suggestions, i know that further maths has plenty of benefits to my career. And for SWE vs CS, although it varies based on unis, the distinction between them is small and will not affect much into careers
Thank you guys a lot!!!!!!

[near ocean]

if you dont take further maths, what else would you take instead

[limpid osprey]

I mean
If i only do 3 subjects it might lift leverage and more likely to score higher lmao
Just saying 👀

[graceful mason]

You should definitely start by taking 4 and then drop one after year 1 if required

[limpid osprey]

Yayaya i plan to do that
Thankss

[vale lily]

I'm learning python with commerce stream is there is scope?

[near ocean]

what does that mean

[dense mesa]

If you're talking about the commerce education stream and whether there's scope to use python, yes there is some

[worldly fern]

i have 3/4 months free

what are some good programing languages to learn

[gilded valley]

Any of them - Golang is good for employability, rust is fun to write, python or JavaScript is very probably the best choice if you don't currently know any language.

[dense mesa]

Yeah as @gilded valley said, start with python or js if you have no prior experience

[analog sun]

This is not the place to ask.

In addition, don't cross post your question.

[worldly fern]

done matlab and python before.. small amount of C..

im an electricql and mechanical student at Strathclyde... just wanna learn a few things.

doing sql atm as I like data

[gilded valley]

Sounds to me like building on your python skills might make sense. You could have a look at something like Django to get a sense of what it's like writing full applications

The thing a lot of people find difficult when learning programming languages is motivating yourself to do it - one trick is to just find a project that you're genuinely interested in doing and running with it

[dense mesa]

If you enjoyed Python and MATLAB, C++ could be a nice way to get closer to hardware

[worldly fern]

yh had a python class for a semester last yr but never had a real reason to keep at it

[oak mist]

Hello

I have a question , is advance python is hard more than java 🤔

[near ocean]

There's not really an answer to that question, use what you prefer and don't worry about what's more difficult

[vapid jay]

makes sense. That's why you need to network/train/work with the industry directly

[vapid jay]

I think advanced python is harder than advanced java when you are learning your first language. Advanced programming deals with complex lower components of the environnemnt, such as threading and async. And java is lower level, straight learning curve between intermediate to advanced level. Whereas python is more high level, getting from intermediate to advanced requires more understanding of base concepts and abstraction.

Advanced programming requires understanding of how memory and networking work. Whereas for intermediate python, you can just get there with tutorials

[oak mist]

Yup , so now my doubt is solve thanks for everyone who suggest me 🙏

[tropic pelican]

Where can I see vary of resources channel in this server?

[ivory sluice]

if i understood your question correctly, we have a curated resources page on our website that you can check out: https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/

[tropic pelican]

Thanks

[pulsar drum]

How do you generally answer application questions like "why are you interested in joining our company?" I am typically more interested in the specific position than in the company as a whole. Do I just discuss why I am interested in the position then?

[sick vale]

Hey, guys is it really that hard for someone who is self thought and has no CS Degree to get a decent IT job?

[true harness]

yes

[smoky quest]

pretty much. It comes down to "why here and not somewhere else?"

[pulsar drum]

That seems hard to answer when I know nothing about the company or position besides what's in the job listing and their "about us" page. I worry that if I talk just about the technical interests of the position then it would seem dismissive of the company's overall goals and put me at a disadvantage over other applicants.

The frank answer to "why here and not somewhere else?" is "because you have this position and others don't" and if others did have a similar position then I would likely apply there too.

[drowsy grail]

Hi

[smoky quest]

A company isn't just a paycheck printer.
You also have to take into account the culture, the people, the product, the market, the opportunities. All of these will factor in your decision

So if one of these factors stand out, then it may be worth mentioning it

[pulsar drum]

Absolutely, but none of that is evident to me. That's what I intend to find out through an interview

[smoky quest]

There are still tons of information you can find out with some googling.
In your context it may not apply, but I have had plenty of people mentioning in interviews how they were our customers at some point and got some good interactions with us. Or saw some employees at tech talks

If you have applied to the company for the job, you can mention what made you apply. If you were completely neutral to the company, there is no reason to make up something either

And only mentioning the parts of the job ads that got your interest is fine

[pulsar drum]

Thanks. I will try to research more about the company. But yeah, I'd say I am neutral towards their product/goals.

[honest pivot]

Realistically, I will assume that of course you have applied to as many companies as you can with similar positions. To me, the question is more about "Did you bother to learn a bit more about us, at least in between the time we invited you to interview and the interview itself?"

[junior perch]

Hey iam now first year CSE student on which things I should focus to get a nice job

Anyone?

[smoky quest]

Focus on the grades and practice. That means projects and going deeper in the topics

[junior perch]

What is AWS?

[smoky quest]

That sounds like more appropriate for #❓｜how-to-get-help

[junior perch]

But I don't have permission there

To chat

[pulsar flare]

What's the current meta to get a better backend job?

[smoky quest]

you don't have to chat there. You have to read it

[smoky quest]

What do you mean by meta? Can you also expand a bit on your seniority and what parts interest you?

[teal finch]

how do i voice verify

#voice-verification

[smoky quest]

Hi! Welcome!
This has nothing to do with this channel. You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help or #community-meta or yeah #voice-verification

[teal finch]

alr

[pulsar flare]

I think an example will be better. The current meta to get a frontend job is to: Learn a framework, build a portfolio, start applying

[smoky quest]

right but you mentioned a better backend job. So I assumed you already had one or some experience. Is it incorrect?
If not, then it's the same than for frontend. And if you have the option to go for a CS degree, that would be even better

[pulsar flare]

Yeah, I have a CS degree and a backend job.
My current problem is that I'm working on a large organisation in a country where programmers aren't getting paid much (not India, I live in Europe).
I have no problem in getting a job, the problem is that once I start on the job, I notice that the company cares muuuuuuuuuuch more about how good your powerpoints are than any technical expertise

I want to avoid that, at least know somehow that that is going to be the case before I start working there

TLDR: My bosses only understand powerpoints, my work colleges like that I help them and I hate the job

[smoky quest]

Got it! Thanks for sharing.
So there are multiple points here:

• Engineers will typically have two main career tracks. Either on the technical leadership side (ie. principal, architect, etc.) or people leadership (ie. manager, director).
• Engineers can grow in their technical expertise but also in their craftmanship/area of influence

Some of the resources for career ladders:

• https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/overview.html
• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/131XZCEb8LoXqy79WWrhCX4sBnGhCM1nAIz4feFZJsEo/edit#gid=0
• https://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder
  Note that for career ladders, a lot of companies develop their own and it may be good to look into it

[brazen trail]

it's good to know how to make nice presentations for management, and learning to communicate with laypersons is a very valuable skill

[smoky quest]

That is an odd working style from your manager

[analog sun]

I like to call it "crayon drawing" a presentation - try to distill complex topics into 3 bullet points, what the situation is, what the problem is, what the solution is

[smoky quest]

just to be clear and making sure you aren't exaggerating, you are saying your manager doesn't care if you code and expects you to produce some power points on a regular basis?

[brazen trail]

it also helps clarify your own thinking to try to put something that's complex into simple terms

[pulsar flare]

I know that in other countries it doesn't really work like that. But here the people that aren't good at programming get into management, literally, with no caveats. That's how those big consulting companies manage their shops here

[analog sun]

I should note that I'm not in the Programming / Dev world though, but am in the engineering / project management realm

[pulsar flare]

They get all the graduates. You know how to program? Great, continue. You don't but you can talk? You're now the manager: Go talk with the clients

[honest pivot]

I think one of my biggest pet peeves is asking someone how their algorithm works and they want to step me through their code like a debugger. Good communication is very important.

[smoky quest]

maybe, but right now we are trying to fix your situation, not the consultancy industry :p

[delicate bane]

stakeholder management is important; its how you get funding for projects

[pulsar flare]

Thank you so much for the links, I will read them right now

[brazen trail]

my team lead doesn't do as much development anymore, and is more familiar with other languages than Python, so I put simplified code examples in presentations and explain them as part of code or design reviews, and they eat it up

[pulsar flare]

Yeah I'm not exaggerating at all. Our clients are other companies that don't really care about the code, just that we deliver quickly

[brazen trail]

I use markdown and pandoc and latex, you can slap together 10 slides in 20 minutes easy once you get a good workflow

[delicate bane]

sounds like consulting life

[smoky quest]

and are you delivering something other than powerpoints? Or are powerpoints expected as part of the deliverables?

[pulsar flare]

I don't know what we actually deliver. I just make features and showcase them to my manager in a powerpoint presentation

I very rarely have code reviews, the CI system is set up by the client

[smoky quest]

let's start with you then.
So you are developing some features and making powerpoint to showcase them. And the problem is you spend too much time showcasing them?

[brazen trail]

this is pretty much the workflow I use https://geekoverdose.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/2628/ if anyone is curious "Markdown pandoc slides: easy and quick ways to create slides from markdown with pandoc"

[pulsar flare]

My problem is that I feel that it doesn't matter what or how I build if the powerpoint looks good. I don't like that type of culture at all. But I talk to other colleges in other companies and it seems to work the same way

I want to get valued by the code I write

[smoky quest]

I have a sad news for you: no one cares about it but you.
The customers, pm and manager will care about the value created or how much time it saves. The code is only a mean to an end

[brazen trail]

unless upper management is reading over PRs and checking out the repos, they might not really know about what you are working on, self-promotion at work is a thing, even for backend... personally I wish I had realized it sooner

[smoky quest]

That said, your manager should value the substance rather than the look of your slide

[pulsar flare]

ok, I understand. Is there any type of company I can look up where they value the things that are important for me?

[smoky quest]

no one will pay you just to write code that no one will use or provide value

although juniors do be like that, but that's because their area of influence is tiny and they don't fully understand the product/company/outcomes

[pulsar flare]

Sure, but there must be a difference between companies mindsets.
I think you have ones like mine that prioritise creating code as soon as possible, and as much as possible, because they don't worry about maintaining it just mere 6 months later.
And companies that need to care because they make products and need to maintain them

[smoky quest]

That said, if what you value is craftmanship, you could look into more traditional companies that are building a product. For the backend, they will care more about the sustainability of the project and how it's done. And if the team is a bit more technical, they may be more technically minded. But at the end of the day, it's still all about what user problem you are solving

[pulsar flare]

I don't understand, why are those types of companies traditional? Am I missing something?

[smoky quest]

no, it's an abuse of language from my side

[pulsar flare]

eh... I don't know if it is, really.... I'm very confused about the market, one the one hand the Internet says that the most important skill is to make good software and to help your peers. But in the job I'm finding that the most important skill is to talk to the client lol

So maybe you're up to something

[smoky quest]

it's more because in the US, it's more common to work in companies building products.
And I know in some EU country, it's the opposite

But yeah, as your seniority increase, your value will be more around how you enable others and acts as a multiplier than as an individual contributor. So less coding and more activities that impact multiple people/teams/orgs

[pulsar flare]

If that's the case, it's quite sad, at least for me. I just want to code

[smoky quest]

There are jobs like that. Although don't expect the same growth

[vapid jay]

Does anyone know where to look for jobs?

[near ocean]

Job boards? Linkedin, indeed, reed, etc

[weary flower]

jooble is good too : )

[hollow sparrow]

what about videogames?

like pygame

[true harness]

is that a question

[tropic pelican]

Honestly, how important are PCEP, PCAP, and PCPP in career, also I would put it on LinkedIn? Are those worth it?

Especially like Data Science

[tropic pelican]

Is this true?

[gentle kite]

No, and if a company asks for a programming certificate, find another company

[near ocean]

Why would you ever think that it would be ok to do that

[gentle kite]

You actually stealing somebodys credentials (token) is illegal in real life - go figure

[vapid jay]

it is tho

[vapid jay]

or make one

[tropic pelican]

also why there is Python Expert Certificate in this image, but I don't see any of it on Internets.

[gentle kite]

yes it is illegal - or what do you mean?

[near ocean]

If you have literally no other credentials then a cert might do you some good, otherwise disregard and focus on real projects

[gentle kite]

programming certificates are a scam, don't fall for them

[tropic pelican]

maybe I have to since companies in my country usually need cert as barometer, but I don't think so in other countries such as europe need that.

[dense mesa]

This seems like an advert for the certification, especially if it's on Quora which is riddled with such posts

[tropic pelican]

Yes, so real projects is highest priority and cert is lowest priority imo

[true harness]

that's what i thought lol. the only thing that makes it sorta not an ad is that there's no specific cert they're talking about

[dense mesa]

You will probably be banned very quickly

[dense mesa]

Yeah usually these are in response to "is X certificate good" and it screams ad

[ivory sluice]

@vapid bramble please don't discuss such things here

[sudden yacht]

This is definitely against our #rules which you should probably go and read.

[ivory sluice]

!cban 815989218807382028 refusal to listen to moderation instruction and abide by our rules, only seems interested in discussion token grabbing

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @vapid bramble permanently.

[ivory sluice]

fuck, bad grammar D:

[tropic pelican]

lol what did he say

[ivory sluice]

we ask that discussions quickly move on after a moderation incident happens helps keep our moderation team sane

[dense mesa]

It wasn't career related that's for sure

[hollow sparrow]

yes, i suppose indie would be the best tho

[near ocean]

Quick, git commit --amend

[true harness]

too late, already pushed

[keen furnace]

oh noooo i just got ip banned 😦

welp. thanks to our sponser . nordvpn this is solved !

alright i want peace

[analog sun]

!ban 853334920830779452 ban evasion

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @keen furnace permanently.

[gentle kite]

weird flex, that vpn guy

[half geyser]

I want to create an APP please can you help me

[dense mesa]

Ask in #python-discussion

[random belfry]

Question: I am working through a Udemy python coding class. I am new to programming but have a background and certs in networking. How does one obtain a job as a Python developer? How do I know when I know enough to be marketable?

[dense mesa]

Do projects and apply for jobs

[random belfry]

@dense mesa Just start applying now? Or wait for some metric?

[balmy spade]

There is no true metric that you can wait for, is there? You should apply for the jobs that interest you. Best case, you're ready in both your mind and the employer's. Worse case something doesn't align and you get the experience of the interview. From that you can start to understand what is missing, what actually interests you, or what doesn't.

[random belfry]

Indeed says that I can apply to internships. Is that a major thing in software dev?

[halcyon birch]

Jython is horrible

[balmy spade]

Internships a good entry point. The bonus of technology internships is that they are paid (and usually decently). Woe to the medical field that it's just common for unpaid internship. :(

It's easier to get an internship or move laterally when you don't have dev experience on the sheet, imo.

[dense mesa]

Apply, ask for feedback if rejected, otherwise keep progressing with stages and ask for feedback upon failure. Do this over and over til success

[lucid vapor]

I had to take a certification exam (Cisco's PCAP, I think) for a Python course in high school, and I passed. Since I did it anyway, is there a point in putting it on a resume or smth in the future or are they wholly irrelevant?

[balmy spade]

If there is room on the first page, then absolutely. It's something you did, completed, and passed!

[wraith perch]

hey

this is sorta unrelated, for a beginner starting out in python and aiming to do AI,ML,DS in the future. what do you recommend as beginner courses

[dense mesa]

If you want to work in those fields, a degree or higher education equivalent would be useful

[wraith perch]

im not looking for a job at the momment just to start somewhere

i still have a quite a bit of time before i need to get a job

[balmy spade]

I would listen to others here. I'm at least the second to last person able to give course advice.

[dense mesa]

This is a career discussion channel, if you want to get started in general try #data-science-and-ml

[wraith perch]

alright

[vapid jay]

Hello guys, I've a Q to ask you all..
Is Comp Sc for class XI (NCERT, India) easier than other major subjects (PCM)?

[delicate bane]

hmm hmm i guess its kinda common sense, but im curious as to what a "bad hire" actually looks like in practice

or i guess another way to better clarify my question is what are the top 3 undesirable traits you have seen in a "bad hire"

[novel pine]

Seems like a more general question so I'll chip in. I don't have 3 traits but I have one and that is time management. AKA getting to work on time, getting work done on time, or at least rarely missing those two factors. Parkinson's Law says that tasks are normally done within the time span given so if someone is consistently not getting tasks time in a certain time span it probably means they aren't willing to pitch in as much effort.

[ivory sluice]

i don't work in SWE so mine are general. top 3 bad traits

• inflexible mindset and inability to adapt
• poor communication skills
• inability to hear negative feedback or receive correction and must talk over it with excuses

[ivory sluice]

tell me more about parkinson's law

because when i'm successfully meeting tight deadlines for c-suite or upper management, it's because i've put a halt on all my other important tasks and am queueing up a backlog for myself

[summer roost]

1. Unwillingness to ask for help after getting stuck
2. Asking for help on everything
3. Failure to ask sufficient questions to clarify a problem before they start coding

[novel pine]

I am not going to pretend I am well versed in something I am not. Most of my trust in it is anecdotal instead of being based on statistics. It might be something to look into and I am not saying it is 100% true for all cases.

[ivory sluice]

but godly what if i get stuck on everything!!

[summer roost]

Then you were a bad hire. Doesn't mean you're a bad person or dumb or anything like that, just that the initial process by which you were vetted for the job failed at accurately assessing whether your skills were a fit for the job responsibilities

That doesn't happen often, unless hiring practices are catastrophically broken, but I have heard of that happening when someone lied to get the job, and successfully bluffed their way through the interview

[ivory sluice]

^ i wonder if this is more a reflection on me more than anything else lol

[balmy spade]

Before I read the answers:

1. Doesn't ask for clarity/Doesn't ask questions during the interview.
2. Can't communicate clearly (anything beyond normal nerves) when asked those famous "tell us a time when..." questions.
3. Aggressive or outright arrogant behavior toward questions/comments (receives feedback poorly)

[summer roost]

I agree with all your points, but with regards to:

inflexible mindset and inability to adapt
I've seen this much more often with people who get stuck in a role within a company than people who get hired into a new role. I sometimes see "but this is how we've always done it", with no consideration of whether it's a good way to do it.

[ivory sluice]

definitely amplified in employees in upper management that have been around since ancient times

[summer roost]

It's definitely a bad trait, but not one I tend to associate with a "bad hire" - though if a new hire did have that trait, it would be bad.

[ivory sluice]

guess what i was dealing with today

must be on my mind

[balmy spade]

"The most dangerous phrase in language is 'We've always done it this way'" - Rear Admiral Grace M. Hopper

This was above my desk for two years at the office. Always challenge the way things are. Both in application and within yourself.

[smoky quest]

I was reading the other responses, and I actually, I disagree with them. Not because they aren't bad traits in themselves, but because they wouldn't necessarily make such person a "bad hire".
All the cited traits are actually trainable and have had to do on a few occasions. While you want to avoid people exhibiting these when hiring, sometimes you are ok with them (it doesn't mean they are bad people) and even have frank discussions about it to let them know you are interested in them but there will be a plan to help them improve in these areas.

What I worry more about are the character traits that are more toxic like making fun of others, lying or playing politics.

(obviously, this assumes there is some management in place to correct and nurture appropriate behaviors)

(also caveat from the ones from @ preocts. They are pretty bad indeed)

[pastel thunder]

is see that MSCS has too much crowd and competition.....if i take MSAI/MSML how much narrow will my job pool get?
will i be be able to apply to normal SDE roles???

considering i took up mixed course (mscs + msai....) during ms

[smoky quest]

unless you plan to strictly focus on ai/ml, mscs has the most opportunities

I also wouldn't call it too much crowded and competition

[pastel thunder]

and am i right that mscs student can easily apply to AI roles?

[pastel thunder]

it feels like it is😢

[smoky quest]

should be fine, especially if you took mixed courses

[pastel thunder]

actually getting job after ms is a must........if i didnt get mscs for some reason....i will take msai and do core courses from both

that way i can ride both boats

[smoky quest]

if you have good grades and have nice projects, that should not be an issue

[rustic schooner]

What would make a project a nice project? As in do you have any guidelines I could evaluate my projects against?

[smoky quest]

You can think of it in terms of:

• Demonstrated skills - For the given role, what are the skills relevant and how does your project help you demonstrate your do posses such skills (see https://roadmap.sh/ for instance)
• Level of complexity - Are we talking about someone copy/pasting a tutorial from youtube on a trivial topic or something a lot more complex that requires more expertise?

[tropic pelican]

Who know this logo?

[rustic schooner]

Thank you

[dense mesa]

You can Google "Signate" and it comes up

[safe loom]

So I had a pretty rough interview and I admit I have no experience when it comes to what I should do when integrating a team. Has anybody got questions over team integration ?

[red grail]

Hi everyone I'm new here
I'm learning python basics and looking for career in data analytics domain.
as a fresher it seems hard to get a job in data analytics domain can someone help me with it

[dense mesa]

What do you need help with?

[vapid jay]

Whats one book/youtube channel/online course , you would suggest a python beginner to get started with it??

[dense mesa]

This channel is for career discussion, try #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

sorry! ill go there

[tropic pelican]

Ik, i was just asking who is following Signate here

[granite void]

Any tips for learning python?

[vapid jay]

Networkchuck

oh btw coffee is important

[delicate bane]

i ended up falling asleep but looks like everyone had an interesting discussion.

and yeah those toxic character traits can really bring down team morale / spread to multiple people, so i can def see that.

being coachable is important, most def.

[delicate bane]

#3 is a big red flag for sure

ego is def a big problem.

[delicate bane]

oof. this reminds me, my friend who is a cloud engineer told me about how they hired a guy who said he knew flask for a flask project...the guy did not know flask

[delicate bane]

an acquaintance i just met was telling me how he just got fired after 5 weeks...his boss' reason was he was too slow with his work + leaving work early...

this was def a reflection on him as a person, since getting fired that soon after getting a position is kinda a red flag...

[worldly warren]

e

[worldly warren]

I guess i'm ed sheeran now because M O D S

still wont change the fact that I will do what my username is

[near ocean]

That's not appropriate for the channel or the server and we would appreciate it if you at least didnt clutter #career-advice

[dense mesa]

They're gonna get banned anyways lol

[near ocean]

Can we have some mod cleanup when that happens then? cheers

[worldly warren]

LMAO

y'all lame af

😦

anyway i'm trying to learn coding

[sudden yacht]

Please be respectful to other members @worldly warren

[worldly warren]

dude is trying to get me banned because of my username, which y'all already dealt with it seems

but ok, I'll shut up I guess

[sudden yacht]

We did. You are free to change it to something you prefer and is suitable for this community.

[worldly warren]

there

[delicate bane]

relevant

[light radish]

@gritty rivet How goes your job?

[gritty rivet]

Pretty awesome overall, learning a lot with great people and already got a raise! How about yours?

[light radish]

Pretty good as well, learning a lot every day. My role is data engineer. I create and work with a lot of Python backend API’s. Work with a decent amount of sql too

I can work fully remote but I usually go to office two days a week.

[granite void]

Are you in India?

[echo oar]

Hey guys, I just graduated college and have been prepping for job interviews for a bit now. The further I go prepping the more I feel unprepared, and was wondering if there were any resources or tips anyone could give me so I can stay on the right track, thanks in advance!

[light radish]

I’m in US

[gritty rivet]

Your interview prep strategy should be based on the specific jobs you're aiming for. Research the roles and the companies to prioritize what weak spots you might need to work on and practice

[copper anvil]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[austere bolt]

Hello! I am Nimesh. I am 17 and I am studying combined maths, physics and chemistry in my A/L. My dream is to become an AI Engineer. What would be the best study path I can take, in order to achieve my goal.☺️

[gritty rivet]

Computer Science... Just focus on getting in to the best university you can and I'm sure you'll do well!

You're in the wrong channel, but Automate The Boring Stuff is a great introduction if you're new to Python

[analog sun]

I think that is what ATBS is an acronym for

Which, will teach some basic python and some examples of using it in projects

[austere bolt]

oh, thank you! Can I study Robotics and AI at the same time? or are they totally different fields?

[gritty rivet]

It may depend on the school but I would guess you can do both

[granite void]

@gritty rivet are you from India?

[gritty rivet]

Nope, USA

[austere bolt]

Which university and workplace are better to study those and work in?

[austere bolt]

Sri Lanka

[gritty rivet]

Hopefully there is a guidance counselor or someone at your high school that can guide you with this better than I can, but generally there are rankings that help you know which schools are best, and then you have to consider what is in reach for you financially and academically.

[austere bolt]

Thank You!

[vapid jay]

can someone check #help-chestnut its been 1 hour..

[honest pivot]

People are probably busy, it's nobody's responsibility to respond to requests

[ivory sluice]

this is a job listing i chanced upon today from intel: https://jobs.intel.com/ShowJob/Id/3403284/Advanced-Design-and-Verification-Researcher

is that typical? entry level but PhD required?

job title says "Researcher" but job category is "Software Engineering"

PhD required as per qualifications but job type at top says "College Grad"

[honest pivot]

Right. It's a role that requires a PhD, but is not any further advanced than that. So "college grad" means "having recently got your PhD".

It certainly doesn't mean the same thing as "entry level" for undergraduates. I would assume the compensation is more.

[dense mesa]

For design and verification yeah you need a PhD for entry level

[ivory sluice]

(almost entered my 2fa code lol)
ok thx, was wondering

[dense mesa]

They probably pay a lot if you're looking to apply, this kind of stuff scales well

[pastel thunder]

when and how are custom loss functions made

[dense mesa]

When the problem and/or domain aren't able to have their losses quantified using traditional methods such as MSE or SSE

[pastel thunder]

i mean what are the symptoms they arent able to?

gradient descent not going down??

or irregularity or what?

[smoky quest]

Sounds like a question for #data-science-and-ml ?

[pastel thunder]

lmao i thought it was it

[dense mesa]

Ping me from that channel and I can go into detail, I thought you had an interview question

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

You either uploaded a .txt file or entered a message that was too long. Please use our paste bin instead.

Hey @vapid jay!

You either uploaded a .txt file or entered a message that was too long. Please use our paste bin instead.

[delicate bane]

[rich flame]

i work for microsft

[quick ore]

when is minecon?

[gusty rose]

When did you start working for them?

[wind acorn]

wait

[cobalt belfry]

i will come at shonjo

[trail linden]

How to get mod???????

[smoky quest]

Hi!
mod is not a career on this server. Thus you are most likely in the wrong place.
You should look at #❓｜how-to-get-help or #community-meta

[bold stratus]

Hello guys. I want to change my career. I am a sales person but when the pandemic happens I find myself studying computer science and enjoy coding, although it's really hard but I wanna be a pro someday lol. I also admire people who excel in it, sana all. Anyway, can you guys give me an advice? What courses should I take? What practices should I do? To be qualified?

P.S. I quit my job to pursue programming and I don't have much plan now so any advice will be much appreciated.

[near ocean]

Why did you quit your job without a plan for a job lined up? That seems incredibly reckless

[bold stratus]

That's the response I get a lot lol. I want to study online to get a certificate but I don't think that's enough to be qualified for a job

[split oasis]

Sounds like he quit because of how he felt towards his job and he was feeling good about coding... and it's easier to say that he quit to pursue coding than because he just couldn't keep going with his previous job

In any case, I'm fine with either. No judgement from my end

[bold stratus]

Yeah exactly. Appreciate it bro.

[near ocean]

This isnt about me or anyone judging them, cutting off your only, I assume, source of income for something hypothetical is not a good career choice

[split oasis]

There are times when it is a good career choice. Mental health is important and I don't know if he can support himself somehow in the meantime. I am not accusing you of judging. I was trying to let you know how it sounded from my end and letting him know that I wasn't judging him.

[near ocean]

I would personally weight physical needs over mental health needs, if they have the means to take care of things without the job then ok, I still wouldn't recommend quitting before getting a signed offer from your next employer

What's your plan for learning Python (and related tech) and finding a job? Do you have one? @bold stratus

There's a pin in here from someone who got a job after self learning python and django, with no related (i think) academic qualifications
worth a read

[spiral prism]

Hi all
slightly off topic from python but i was wondering where everyones thoughts on the future of Solidity in IT careers are geared

[near ocean]

solidity looks like the poor man's javascript
but given that its in the crypto space, i would imagine it'd stick around for a while

[split oasis]

I agree with compromising but I am just assuming he made a good judgment call 😅

I'm probably going to be a permissive parent

[dense mesa]

@bold stratus I can understand your reasons for quitting, and also understand why some people may be concerned. It will drive you to work harder to find something, but you may need to speedrun some of this learning

[left oyster]

Hey all. 👋 I'm an ESL teacher for about 5 years now, and will likely be up to this in the next 2 years. I wanted to ask about age in the field, I'm 31 and feel like I'm super far behind on getting into programming. Am i right to assume entry level positions are full of early 20 somethings?

[near ocean]

That would be a fair assumption but that shouldn't discourage you from applying to entry level, junior or even higher level positions

[left oyster]

Thanks. I really like sys admin and building games. What sort of fields should I target my learning to? Right now I'm just in the early stages of Python but am interested I'm Javascript as well.

[lime bay]

When I go for interviews I usually get this question. What is the most difficult challenge you've faced and how did you solve.

Anyone know how to answer the question? I can't seem to answer it properly even when using the STAR format.

[spiral prism]

Depends entirely on which path you want to go down but I’d argue the most important thing after learning the language is being able to competently use the frameworks and technologies surrounding it, so if ur looking at web dev with python maybe pick up Django. If ur interested in machine learning and data then start w PyTorch, scikit, etc

[wheat oar]

Hi,Im a student and am learning the very grassroot basics of Python. Can someone please suggest basic projects so I can brush up my skills?

[dense mesa]

They're looking for a time you've faced genuine adversity and come out the other side having learned something. If you genuinely can't think of any examples, you need to do a difficult project or anything that can give you that experience. It's one of those questions you can't "STAR" your way through: they're looking for genuine people with genuine responses

[lime bay]

What would be a genuine adversity? I gave an example of migrating an old codebase to a new one and some problems we faced where the newer one was slower than the older one and how it was solved but the hiring manager didn't seem impressed.

[honest pivot]

What is this STAR thing again?

[gritty rivet]

I just became a software engineer in my 40s. Most of my coworkers are nearly half my age but it's all good :)

[left oyster]

Good to hear! I'm curious about your career shift and movement into programming. How and to where did you make the shift?

[honest pivot]

Although if you think at 31 that you're a significantly different age than "20-somethings", then you may be disappointed

[gritty rivet]

This seems worth a read: https://www.wikijob.co.uk/interview-advice/interview-questions/describe-a-challenge-you-overcame

[honest pivot]

I don't feel like it's so hard to describe a challenge I overcame. Is this question really such a big deal? It's not like "What is your greatest weakness?"

[gritty rivet]

I was a Python hobbyist for a long time. When I got really serious about doing it professionally, I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp. After that I found my current job almost immediately.

I'm at a small startup building APIs for banks

JavaScript would be helpful but I haven't really tried learning it seriously yet. Python and SQL is enough enough to get you started if you don't mind focusing on backend or data engineering.

[lime bay]

Are you in the US?

[gritty rivet]

Yes

[lime bay]

Nice

[left oyster]

sorry for the dumb question, but what does "backend" mean day to day? What do you do? Is that the same as sys admin?

[dense mesa]

If you have to ask then it's not something that can be described easily

[lime bay]

I'm looking for an example from someone. From there I'll know the type of projects to tackle to get the revelant experience

[dense mesa]

I know my response kinda sucks but this doesn't have to be a programming project necessarily, and it's not really something you can go out and artificially do for yourself. It's usually a difficult situation which you're forced to learn a lot to get out of. You almost certainly have experienced this before at some point

[buoyant seal]

What is the point of managers in outsourcing company 🤔
I mean.... the developers are leased to external company
their actions are fully regulated by developers/managers of an external company
participation of outsourcing managers is nearly zero in this case.

I guess, managers should be having a point in their existence only when external company is not having their own managers then?
or when there is development of products internal to the outsourcing company? 🤔 even in this case it is kind of hard to imagine again

What would be the point of a manager to manage smth, when it is supposed to be managed by senior ranked developers, capable to coordinate tasks in the project?
What is again the point of managers even in product company? 🤔

I am kind of having a really weak understanding what managers do. what are their duties can possibly be in a software development company?

P.S. those questions i started to ask after having all of my meetings with managers being the same
i just report in verbal stuff actions happening in slack/github/trello/jira, and just talking about non work stuff with managers
(and the managers kind of already know all of it anyway, as they read same slack and resources, though having less limited access)

[dense mesa]

They guide, coach and give direction as to what developers have to do

[buoyant seal]

software developers education and working experience is all about transforming business requirements into technical requirements
planning the look of a software product, finding and splitting the necessary work to do into tasks distributed to itself or among other developers
I can't really imagine where non dev manager could do any step in this software development lifecycle. it requires SWE education to tell what other devs to do. What is manager supposed to do?

[near ocean]

arent managers usually ex-devs?

[buoyant seal]

so far i have an impression 1) that managers aren't developers
2) or if they were not succesful devs, they become managers

3. Ideally real managers are supposed to be also devs... but those are having basically a role of a dev, not a manager then.
   i am really confused where those two first categories fit in

[analog sun]

Depending on the company it is usually managers that are developed from within (come from a technical background)

[buoyant seal]

what is their range of duties?

[analog sun]

Of a manager? It depends on the context - what you were talking about above was for managers of an external company, or do you mean managers managing internal personnel? At the end of the day their job is to manage - the people in their team (are they content? struggling? over loaded? do they need training on something? are they causing issues with clients / coworkers?) the resources available to the team (money, equipment, time) and the interface of their team to other departments (has HR changed the PTO policy? did sales meet with a client without input from the dev manager?) etc etc

[buoyant seal]

yes

if to be precisely they their role is written as Project Manager

[analog sun]

Their role then is to make sure the project they are assigned is managed - generally they are the single point of contact between companies

[haughty folio]

Hey guys

Im an intermediate django dev and im gonna start freelancing soon can anyone help me with some advices?

[buoyant seal]

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources/guides/asking-good-questions/ here is an advice how to ask good questions 🙂

[haughty folio]

R u looking for attention

idiot

[buoyant seal]

https://www.pythondiscord.com/pages/guides/pydis-guides/asking-good-questions/#q-is-anyone-here-good-at-flask-pygame-pycharm your question was same as
is anyone good here with flask?
which has answer in the guide

There are two problems with this question:

This kind of question does not manage to pique anyone's interest, so you're less likely to get an answer overall. On the other hand, a question like "Is it possible to get PyCharm to automatically compile SCSS into CSS files" is much more likely to be interesting to someone. Sometimes, the best answers come from someone who does not already know the answer, but who finds the question interesting enough to go search for the answer on your behalf.
When you qualify your question by first asking if someone is good at something, you are filtering out potential answerers. Not only are people bad at judging their own skill at something, but the truth is that even someone who has zero experience with the framework you're having trouble with might still be of excellent help to you.
So instead of asking if someone is good at something, simply ask your question right away.

you should ask better precise questions what do you want, instead of asking to ask

[gritty rivet]

We have sysadmins who manage servers and network infrastructure, but I'm writing code for an application running on that infrastructure. I say backend because I don't touch the JavaScript interface that users interact with, just code that processes data in the background

[junior perch]

Hey

In which field i should specify to get a very good job? ML, AI, DATABASE?

[peak halo]

for career purposes, AI and ML are the same thing. Database administration would be a separate career track.

There aren't very many entry-level positions in AI/ML, so it's a difficult career to enter, but it is lucrative if you're able to get in.

[junior perch]

Now iam first year of engineering and have Python intermediate level knowledge now iam moving with Python after that I want to choose the best path

[peak halo]

when you say "first year of engineering", what is the name of the degree you're going to get at the end? Computer engineering? computer science? mechanical engineering?

[junior perch]

CSE

[peak halo]

what does that stand for

[junior perch]

Computer science engineering

[peak halo]

interesting. do you have the option to do any major concentrations, and if so, what are the options?

[junior perch]

That I dont know may be that option will be there in upcoming year.

[dense mesa]

Idk how to tackle this question without a lot of management/motivation theory, but if they weren't needed (for the most part) they wouldn't exist. Obviously there's the argument of "bullshit tech jobs" but if it's a huge loss then yeah

[junior perch]

Past year Amazoneg recruited 2 of our seniors.What will Amazon like companies expect from applicants?

[buoyant seal]

Motivation theory...
Are they moral support? Cheerleaders?
Insert gif with cheerleaders dancing for moral support of developers
Just kidding, but I actually get taste like that

[gilded valley]

Haha this is such a manager answer. "Yes managers are very important. No I can't explain why"

[peak halo]

if your school/college/uni offers major concentrations, that information should be available to you.

Amazon is known for not paying very well and having a bad work culture, just so you know. Though I don't really know what FAANG companies look for in new graduates for their entry-level positions.

What I'm getting at is that if you know you have a specific interest, you should see if there is a major concentration related to it, and look for internships related to it for the summer times.

[buoyant seal]

Don't go to database administration, this is a really outdated job position. Not really good for career.

[junior perch]

Ok i will do that.But Here Amazon is the Dream recruiter for everyone. in Campus placements They offered Highest package for those graduates.

[junior perch]

Hmm

[peak halo]

I've never worked at Amazon, so I'm just relaying stuff that I've heard. I do have actual experience starting a career in AI/ML, though.

[junior perch]

Nice which is best company to work according to you.

[buoyant seal]

Database admin is kind of a job between sysadmin and backend developers.
Sysadmins are replaced by DevOps engineers and SRE people.
Better to approach databases equipped with full power of backend developer
Sysadmins are becoming a job of the past, database admins too

[junior perch]

Ok

[peak halo]

I've only worked for one company. I don't know which one you should aspire to work for. I've heard Google and Facebook have better work cultures.

[junior perch]

Hmm

Which Language i should study other than Python?

In our syllabus they cover basics of every language but nothing more than that

[buoyant seal]

What are your desired areas of expertise
Programming fields to pursue
https://c.tenor.com/2qDlUhbRiBIAAAAC/what-do-you-desire-tom-ellis.gif

[junior perch]

ML, AI

[peak halo]

Python is pretty much the only general-purpose language you'd need to use in AI/ML. It also helps to know languages with specific purposes, like SQL or bash.

[buoyant seal]

Not really heard about applying anything but Python for Ml/Ai. Perhaps just concentrate on it then
And learning other non language skills then

[junior perch]

Ok

Thank you for the guidance🙃

[peak halo]

@junior perch let me reiterate that there aren't very many entry level positions for AI/ML, so it's important that you get tangible experience before you complete your degree. Unless you want to do grad school.

[junior perch]

Grad school means?

Which has many entry level positions i will study those also then it will be good right?

[smoky quest]

The tl;dr is that, the manager is accountable for the execution of the team. However there are as many types of managers as there are teams.
There are also different sides to it:

• The people management side - are people happy? having an impact? working towards their career goal? having opportunities to stretch themselves? How do we hire people? Are people performing as they should?
• The technical side, which is sometimes done by the manager or delegated / in partnership with a tech lead - How do we accomplish the task? What architecture and technology choices?
• The project management side - how do we organize ourselves? how do we know we are making progress?
• The product management side - Are we working on the right thing?

Depending on the configuration of the team, the strength /weakness of the people involved and the culture of the team/group/org, some of these responsibilities may be combined or split out

[buoyant seal]

Okay. That is saying something.
So project managers are basically organising non technical stuff and progress trackers then

[smoky quest]

Are you talking about a project manager or a manager of a team?

[buoyant seal]

Project manager

[smoky quest]

ah project managers are typically not really useful at the team level. They are most useful in efforts spanning multiple teams.
They are there to oil the machine and make sure nothing falls through the crack between teams

But they have it kind of the worst. They have to make sure it all goes smoothly but have no authority

[gilded valley]

Not a dig at you, I just found the irony amusing

[peak halo]

grad[uate] school is where you get a masters degree

[austere bolt]

What are we talking here ?:

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel, and it looks like they're talking about how responsibilities are distributed in software development teams.

[buoyant seal]

Well. That is kind of not reassuring vague description of duties.

Perhaps u can tell me just from a position of a developer, how your personal assigned manager can be used?

[austere bolt]

Ohh right. And what to study in order to become an AI and robotic enginner?

[smoky quest]

I am getting confused.
You seem to be switching back and forth between team manager and project manager

[buoyant seal]

I am still meaning project manager

I am having assigned personal project manager, and just wishing to understand with what kind of things I could go to him at this point

[peak halo]

if there's a university you can attend that has a program specifically about AI/machine learning/data science, that. Otherwise, a computer science degree, with as much emphasis on AI/ML/DS as can be obtained.

[smoky quest]

project managers aren't assigned to people/dev. They work on whole projects/initiatives or around areas

they also would most likely work with your manager more than a dev

[buoyant seal]

As just manager, u mean team manager now

[austere bolt]

Which uni offers specifically AI?
CAN AN AI Engineer work as a robotic enginner? I mean I have interested in both areas

[smoky quest]

yeah. It can get confusing. There is the activity of project management, but also a role of project manager which may also vary based on the country

[buoyant seal]

It sounds kind of not really secure job position to me.

[peak halo]

I don't have a comprehensive list of universities that offer AI degrees. look at universities near you and see what their offerings are.

I don't know what qualifications are needed to work in robotics. I'll ask a coworker who does that and get back to you.

[buoyant seal]

Okay... Thanks, I start to have vague understanding now.

xD we need O'really book about all kind of managers

[smoky quest]

project managers tend to happen in larger companies since you have more teams and thus require more coordination between them.

team manager is as stable as any other position, including engineers

[smoky quest]

That book exists: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897

[buoyant seal]

Yay. I knew it should exist

[peak halo]

@austere bolt I looked at what degrees the robotics engineers at my company have, and the list includes computer science, mechanical engineering, aerospace engineering, computer engineering, and mathematics.

[austere bolt]

Thanks

[gilded valley]

This screams advertising

[near ocean]

"If you don't have problems that are original enough, become a more original person."

• internet wise guy, 2022 (colorized)

[wraith perch]

Anyone here actually work in AI, ML or DS?

[smoky quest]

No. I only have fun with it. It's not a job if you enjoy it

(in general, it's more effective to ask your question directly)

[near ocean]

Theres no professionals on retainer here, just ask your question and people with relevant experience will answer

[peak halo]

I've decided that Microsoft deserves to be FAANG more than Netflix, so now it's FAAMG. pronounced "famg" or "fam-guh".

[dense mesa]

Big N

[delicate bane]

project managers are also dif than product managers

[delicate bane]

rip netflix again 🕯️

i still like their tech blog. very, very good case studies on there

[true harness]

we should just make all acronyms alphabetical, even if it's a phrase like NBC. it should be AAFGM

[dense mesa]

That's why it's called Big N

[modern bronze]

Hey everyone. I was hoping I could get some advice on how to make a resume as a soon to graduate college student. I have no relevant work experience so I'm not sure what to put. The job I'm applying for is a robotic process automation position

[true harness]

does your college have a career counseling place/people? if so, ask them for help, that's what they're for

[peak halo]

give your expected graduation date, include your GPA if it's over 3 (or your in-major GPA if that's over 3 but your overall GPA isn't), and yes, your institution probably has a career services center.

[modern bronze]

I'm not sure but that's definitely something to look in to. Nobody will be there until the 31st though so I'd have to wait

[peak halo]

what country are you in?

[modern bronze]

@peak halo what about for work experience? Do I put old jobs even though they are irrelevant?
I'm in the US

[peak halo]

if you worked any jobs that aren't relevant while you were a student, I would just give the company, title, and time worked. just so that they know you were a working student.

[modern bronze]

@peak halo I didn't. I was working for the first month I was in school but I quit so I could focus my full attention on school

[peak halo]

I wouldn't mention it, then.

[modern bronze]

@peak halo without experience it seems so empty. Is there something I should replace it with?

[peak halo]

did you just finish your first year of college? and were you hoping to get an internship for this summer?

[modern bronze]

@peak halo I've been in school for almost 2 years. I'll graduate with my associates in December. I just have 1 semester left but my classes weren't available in the summer so I have to wait until fall.
I was hoping to get a job, not an internship. Is that reasonable? Lol

[peak halo]

what is the associate's in, and what positions are you looking for?

[modern bronze]

@peak halo Computer Information Technology. The job I'm currently writing the resume for is a robotic process automation position, but any good entry level software developer position would be fine

[true harness]

you can also send your resume if you want people to look at it

[peak halo]

are you looking for positions that you would start working once you finish the degree?

[modern bronze]

@true harness okay thanks! I'll post it in a second

@peak halo I was hoping to start soon. I wanted to wait until I was done but you know how life goes.

[peak halo]

unfortunately, I think getting a software developer position without a four-year degree is already a bit of a stretch, so I think it's especially unlikely that you'd be able to get one with an in-progress associate's. though it would also depend on the position and what other experience you have.

[modern bronze]

@peak halo thats what I was worried about. other than school and personal projects, I have no experience. I was just being hopeful lol

this is what I have so far though

[peak halo]

What do you mean that you are "research-driven"?

[modern bronze]

I actually got the summary from a resume builder lol. The job description said something about needing to research often so I thought it worked well. To me it just means that I enjoy researching to learn new things and figure things out

[true harness]

why not put some of those projects on?

[modern bronze]

@true harness I only have one worth mentioning and it's not completely finished. Idk if they would want to look at it. Honestly I don't feel ready for a programming job yet but I need the money and don't want to get a job that I hate

[split oasis]

Exactly my issue

I've decided to let my family support me for a year

[modern bronze]

@split oasis no shame in that as long as you're doing something for your future. My wife's basically a sugar momma lmao she's been paying the bills while I'm in school

[split oasis]

Lucky you! And yeah I'll be acquiring marketable skills and creating a portfolio of sorts.

[modern bronze]

@split oasis that's good then! I really need to make a portfolio. I think that would help my chances a lot

[onyx locust]

for anyone who's a software engineer and has a job, how hard is the work, what is your work, and how do you do your work. im trying to develop professional skillset and i cant anticipate what kind of real life skills i would need. im working on my unit tests and ci/cd and im ngl its kinda hard but could somone tell me what they do on a daily basis as a software engineer

also how do you work on the source code without having the changes break and etc

[unkempt sandal]

I'm working on a project that uses the spotify API and basically does BFS with the data to find a path between 2 artists. Should I create a website for this using Flask, or just do a separate website project? I'm trying to get 2 projects done this summer, so not sure if it would be a smarter to create a website for this API project or to create a website as its own project

[limpid osprey]

1 question about chosing A Level: My subjects are Maths, Further maths, Physics and Chemistry. If i want to take software engineering degree (or CS), is it true that my chances to be enrolled into most uni will be same if i change Chemistry to CS?
I am in Malaysia btw

[leaden summit]

is it okay for me to ask for a review for my CV here ?

[split oasis]

yes

you usually censure the personal info

[leaden summit]

lemme adjust it realquick

This is my CV tho, a friend already reviewed it for me but more suggestion is still good. I just finished my study at Uni and all of my experience is from Uni also. Im looking for a trainee position with this CV

[smoky quest]

Some notes:

• A bit too much going on in terms of projects, which confuse a bit the reader as they don't know where to look. Furthermore this format for project is not what people are used to see (fyi, multiple columns are also typically not parsed correctly by ATSes)
• Your projects feels more like quantity than quality. Or at least they appear so because you aren't selling them. For instance my take away from your three projects on the top is that they are CRUD app. That's not something that would make someone call you back. So call out the interesting and worth talking about parts
• Is your major really computer science? There is nothing like distributed system, data science or other? Not that it's bad, am just curious

[leaden summit]

ye it just Computer Science

[smoky quest]

Also, as an outsider, not sure why you mention your speed dating as a hobby

[stuck helm]

If you have a technical/coding interview, what type of questions do you ask at the end of the interview?

[smoky quest]

Anything you want to know about the person, the job, the team, the company, the culture, the product, the technical aspects, the challenges, etc.
You are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you

[leaden summit]

im not english native speaker so I thought extra-curriculumn is something more like outsite-filed activities but not hobby

[smoky quest]

You may have to rework that part. Otherwise, it sounds a lot like "go on dating websites"

[leaden summit]

its like speed interview from company at my Uni but i'll adjust it

[smoky quest]

that would make more sense. People outside of your university may not know what you are talking about

[leaden summit]

its an annually event so i thought everyone know what it is

[smoky quest]

I am not familiar about the annual events of your university in the same way you aren't familiar with the annual events of some random university in Argentina

So knowing the context of the reader is something to take into account in the resume. It's safer to default to assume them not knowing

[stuck helm]

Reading what you said, gave me couple of questions I can ask them. Thanks!!

[leaden summit]

so for summary, i should adjust my CV with list out what i learned from my uni project and also explain meaning of my extra curriculumn, right ?

[smoky quest]

The main three things:

• Your layout for project is odd
• Your projects' descriptions aren't sexy
• Rephrase the speed dating a bit

[smoky quest]

I also like to ask some questions like "What are you looking forward to?" or "What are the main challenges the team is facing or working on?" or "What are the criteria for success for this position?"

[stuck helm]

What do you mean by, "What are you looking forward to?"

[smoky quest]

that's open ended on purpose :p
Sometimes you get answers like "lunch" or something more related to the projects they are working on. Either way it helps learning a bit about what is going on

[stuck helm]

I liked this "What are the criteria for success for this position?" or "What would make someone successful in this position?"

[stuck helm]

Yeah based off of what you said, "What are some challenges the person faces in this position?"

[smoky quest]

yeah, a lot of it depends on your future role, the company and who you are talking to.
But it comes down to people, process or technology or business

[stuck helm]

You gave me some good ideas and questions I can ask!!

Thanks a lot!! This was helpful!

I think I'll limit it to three questions.

[honest pivot]

I've been in some interview processes lately and I've asked about as many questions as the interviewer. It might depend on the level of role or whatever, but don't be afraid to ask questions, and maybe spend some time writing down some that are important to you.

(Just make sure it's a conversation rather than an interrogation, and you should be fine)

[near remnant]

Is it possible to send Teams interview invitation via email and also hiding the participants? I've received an interview invitation and at the 'participants' section it only shows the Lead Dev and no one else. I find it weird but maybe I'll only talking to the Lead dev?

[near ocean]

you shouldnt assume that, be prepared to have other people in the interview
they might not ask you questions, they might just be spectators

[near remnant]

Should I ask the Lead Dev about this? I know him, he referred me to the company

[honest pivot]

I think it might appear strange if you do that. Basically just assume there may be multiple people on the call. But I think most likely not, I guess it depends on the company and their procedures.