career-advice

[inner wren]

Hey @shadow mist!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[near ocean]

take a screenshot and post it

[near ocean]

looks ok, are you having problems getting called back?

[graceful mason]

I'm not a fan of the dates/location being on the right of the page - it's hard to read that naturally
You misspelt NoSQL in the first line

[shadow mist]

I just updated it yesterday, didn't send it out yet.

One of the things I'm concerned about is that whether I should actually list all of the technologies that I used or whether it's okay to just say what you've used at a general level like i did

[shadow mist]

where could dates be?
and thanks for catching the typo

[near ocean]

i think a small tag line where you list out the tech you've used is fine, i have one on mine too

[shadow mist]

Given what I have on my resume, would I still be looked at like a junior or could I qualify for a mid-level position if I was to join a startup of ~20-50 ppl?

[graceful mason]

Where you said R and NoSQL and more the And more doesn't provide any information - list all the important technologies that you're competent with. Some companies will use CVs as a shopping list to start with, and you may be missing opportunities by ommiting that info

I'd put the dates either next to or under the role/company name

[near ocean]

your work experience starts july last year, you dont even have a year's experience, of course you'd be more likely to be considered a junior

oh wait, its not sorted by date, why would you do that

most recent position first, this is just confusing

[shadow mist]

gotcha

[near ocean]

jan 2020 might be mid position but people are probably gonna assume youre a junior still, not sure

i would also be more specific in your job descriptions, "Strategic research" doesnt mean much

[shadow mist]

Definitely, thanks for the time!

[dense mesa]

The quote seems quite unprofessional, the colouring should be more consistent or removed completely on the red/black words (again looks unprofessional). Having dates and locations on the right hand side is fine, idk why other people are picking up on it. You should try and use Situation-Task-Action-Result more on the bullet points (STAR method)

[dense mesa]

If the resume is in chronological order (as they should be), dates are usually better off to the side. Otherwise it clutters up skim reading without offering any immediate benefit

[tribal orchid]

how would i know that i am beginner or intermediate in python?

[dense mesa]

Is this in the context of a job/internship application?

[tribal orchid]

yes something relatable !

@dense mesa^

[dense mesa]

https://roadmap.sh see how far along you are

[vapid jay]

Hello anyone who's reading this
i'd like to ask a question from basically anyone who can answer me
so since past 2 years my university was in online mode so i was slacking off a lot other that a few assignments i did nothing although i did do some web developent and i had an active github profile on that matter but since i went back to my collage i realised that this is not enough and i have to learn machine learning and data structure as well . so i started watching some youtube videos about ml and currently i am doing a udemy couse (its a 44hr course and i have done like 4 hrs from it) and about data structures, i learned a bit and also saw some suggestions videos after which it all boils down to "learn ds from anywhere and apply it on leet code"

so my question is what should be my realistic goes on leetcode since my 6th sem is over and placement will start from july probably

i just wanna know a goal i should set like atleast 10q per day for first week then 15 or 20 per day in the following week and so on

if anyone can help me with some advice i would appreciate that very much
ty

[peak halo]

what degree program is this, and where are you located? data structures are a fundamental in any CS curriculum, but machine learning is not.

Leet code might be useful for practicing certain things, but I don't think employers are going to care about it.

[vapid jay]

currently i am in junior year of cse with specialization in ai and ml program and my school is new delhi

[dense mesa]

LeetCode is very good practice for a lot of technical interview questions

[peak halo]

I don't know how things work in India, so I can't really comment. I am in the US.

[delicate bane]

yeah what is "placement"? do you get placed into dif companies based on some test or something?

[dense mesa]

Can you break down your current situation and what you're looking to do? The above message has a lot of irrelevant information. From my understanding:

1. You didn't learn as much as you think you should have during online school
2. You are currently learning more about machine learning and data structures
3. You have a "placement" that I assume has some requirement for LeetCode or ML?

[dense mesa]

From friends in India, the US, and the UK where I am, basically everyone had to do LeetCode-style questions at some point in interviewing for their SWE jobs

[vapid jay]

my goal here is to ask you guys some advice on how should i set my goals so i will get prepared afleast go enough to score an interview in a nice company

as far as placement goes that just means a lot of companies comes on campus takes conducts various diff exams and shortlist candidates based on that

[vapid jay]

its all the same dw

[lofty pumice]

what companies are you aiming for?

[lusty radish]

hello

i want to become a software engineer so what i can do for it

[vapid jay]

i live in turkey but planing to study and live in US

[lofty pumice]

learn to code tbh

[vapid jay]

FAANG and some more. since i am mostly looking on job profiles

[smoky quest]

The market is growing faster than the number of people in it.
There is also a large number of applicants who are pretty bad.

[peak halo]

this isn't a very helpful comment. do you think they aren't already trying to do that?

[lofty pumice]

im sorry, i was joking

[peak halo]

if you're young and don't have professional experience, the most straightforward way is to enroll in a computer science program, develop your programming skills, and do internships over the summers.

[lofty pumice]

and probably go into some FAANG challlenges, like hashcode from google

[lusty radish]

thank you soo much i am 15y old so i want to become professional software engineer in my future and i have no any experience

[peak halo]

I wouldn't commit to the idea that you have to work for a FAANG company. They are companies that are highly visible and influential in how the general public perceives technology. That doesn't say anything about the experience that you'd have from working for them.

[lusty radish]

i am master in pyton

[peak halo]

well, that's a very confident statement.

[lusty radish]

you know what is the salary of software engineer

[gaunt elbow]

Hi all, anyone knows if it's even possible to debug pyspark locally with breakpoints? Always raises an error after it reaches an action method on dataframes. Thanks.

[peak halo]

it depends on what kind of development you do and where you're located. the best place to check is going to be glassdoor, since you can look up salaries based on all those variables.

[peak halo]

try #data-science-and-ml. this is the career discussion channel.

[gaunt elbow]

oooops sorry thought I was writing in general

[peak halo]

but generally speaking, developers are paid well as office-type jobs go.

[lusty radish]

ok you guide me so much and guide me about how to become a data scientist or ai engineer

[vapid jay]

i will think about that when i will actually have a lot of options but for now is better than not having a goal

[smoky quest]

The main thing is to aim for a cs degree. In the mean time, learn and explore different areas of CS. It will help you build some foundations, see how things fit together and understand better what you like and dislike

[azure mountain]

I think this is a major component of it. I will add that one thing I look for in hirig folks is not only their technical skill but those that can understand and appreciate the richness of business context surrounding the problems we ask them to solve. Take advantage of foundational business, accounting, marketing etc, courses if offered. Data scientest tend to build better solutions and make smarter implementation choices if they are familiar with how a business may leverage their solutions.

[soft bay]

hay fam

Career talk with me ?

whos in?

[plucky karma]

Agreed.

Every engineer must ask what they are solving for.

Is there a product or more out there offering to solve said problem?

[narrow minnow]

Is ml engineers are also a developer
Doing mastery in any language will make us developer?

[vast spire]

Do you think portfolio is necessary?

[smoky quest]

it depends on what else you have to make you stand out and demonstrate you are worth talking to

[dense mesa]

ML engineers are software engineers focused on machine learning, so there's less traditional software design as it's more to do with modelling. You don't need to master a language to be a developer, having good knowledge of multiple languages is better

[dense mesa]

If this is in the context of applying for python jobs, a portfolio is very important but not 100% necessary. Don't go into an application without one

[soft bay]

cant one one language do most of the work?

[narrow minnow]

Ok So to be a software developer we need to know multiple languages,

[dense mesa]

For personal projects, one language may be enough. For enterprise/commercial projects, it's rare to have only one language

[vast spire]

Yeah knowing how to connect python with sql can be useful

[dense mesa]

That's not what I was implying with my message. There is no universal requirement to be a software developer, I said it's better to know a few languages well than try to master one.

[vast spire]

And in case you have any visualization it could be helpful yes

[dense mesa]

Some jobs will take people with no programming experience to be software developers, others will require years of experience

[vast spire]

So many jobs also ask for a website/clone of youtube/instagram

[dense mesa]

Which jobs and in which location? I haven't seen this being used much before

[vast spire]

The other day I saw a post from shopify they want a clone of instagram as their entrance test

[soft bay]

is a having a job experience in python very important if you want to build your business?

[narrow minnow]

So we need to focus dsa , os , oops , ...etc like topics

[smoky quest]

That's not the majority from what I have seen.
You can also get in without a portfolio if you have a degree/nice resume

[vast spire]

I might even have the document give me a sec

[smoky quest]

Only if the business require python job experience

[dense mesa]

If your business is about writing python, then yes having work experience is important. Otherwise it's probably not related to business itself

[vapid jay]

anyone worked onupwork or toptal as a django developer ?
How much can be earned, if anyone could share theor experince

[vast spire]

it's closed rip

[dense mesa]

Yes, if you want to be a software developer and prepare for potential interviews, this website is good:
https://teachyourselfcs.com

[soft bay]

what really mean is building a technology company.

[narrow minnow]

Ok , thank you very much!👍

[soft bay]

i can employ people to do most of the work. right?

[dense mesa]

If you want to build a technology company, you are unlikely to use any programming experience. That's more about management, strategy, leadership, etc

[smoky quest]

Work backward: look at your goals and what you need to achieve them

[smoky quest]

If you have the resources to do so and the related skills

[soft bay]

okay, i get it

[near ocean]

What is this above me, i only see empty space

[soft bay]

me too

why

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> can you do something about this huge block of nothing?

[lunar pond]

There is a good free online tool to make a resume and you can start from one of the free templates it offers. It’s quite easy to use:

https://flowcv.io

[shadow mist]

Thank you @lunar pond

[lunar pond]

You are welcome. I’d also suggest to add a skill section; as you know usually resumes are read by bots looking for specific words so adding the technologies, etc, that you know is quite useful.

[azure mountain]

If you end up creating a resume I would be happy to give you feedback. I look at literally 1000s for hiring. DM me if you would like, I head up an analytics department, including a Data Science division.

[hollow yacht]

Anyone else experience this? https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/HJ4Zt17F9t_RywQFwGEwvRWnZPSfoUVtegq9be6W11A/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/683055008451002430/962169726908395550/SmartSelect_20220408-195850_Reddit.jpg

[ebon sun]

A bit. Manager gushes about how great of a job I'm doing but spend half the time noodling around with Python, and the other half the time noodling around with Python doing work related stuff.

Everything is a programming problem if you work hard enough.

[hollow yacht]

Yeah same, like it's not that I'm trying to not finish my tasks or anything. It's that I'm not given enough tasks lol. Or at least nothing super complex. Then I end up trying to do something semi-work related to talk about during the next day's stand up meeting lol

[ebon sun]

On the bright side you're not being crushed by overwhelm. It's great when bosses are mindful of that.

[hollow yacht]

Yeah, I'm being paid on the lower side of the developer spectrum but at the same time it's a very stressless job so I feel like it balances out

[ebon sun]

STressless is great, I'm in the same boat but not a dev - just an analyst with niche experience that got me in the door.

[undone willow]

The one with recommended things to learn for backend programmers

[smoky quest]

I wrote it, unless you are referring to the roadmap.sh, which I did not write

[smoky quest]

Acting at the next level is one way to level up.
Reaching out for new tasks and being proactive about it are great way to demonstrate these.
I also don't believe there is nothing to do in tech. There is always something to upgrade, some test coverage to improve, something to clean up, etc.

[undone willow]

I meant the rodemap.sh

I was curious as to the author. But ty Recursive 🙂

[smoky quest]

there is a link to the github repo of that roadmap on the webpage though

(which can help you see who/how they contributed to it)

[grim summit]

Hey anyone experienced that can help me with some stuff message me please 🙂

[dense mesa]

Would be better to ask here

[grim summit]

You see I would but it feels like I shouldn't

[dense mesa]

How come?

[grim summit]

well can I dm you

[dense mesa]

There's more opportunity for relevant people to answer here

[grim summit]

I dont feel comfortable

[ivory sluice]

wanting to go to DM just gives the appearance of you wanting to circumvent our rules, so i'd suggest asking here. and if you're not comfortable posting it here i don't think you should feel any more comfortable DMing a stranger that you've picked from the lot

[grim summit]

alright

[analog lark]

What certifications would get me a job in data science?

Or like at least ease the process?

[dense mesa]

You may be better off spending that time on projects and formal education where possible

[peak halo]

what experience (academic or professional) do you have currently?

[analog lark]

None

[peak halo]

then you should probably enroll in a data science-related degree program

[analog lark]

Aight

[vapid jay]

anyone worked onupwork or toptal as a django or react developer ?
How much can be earned, if anyone could share theor experince

[wild mesa]

How do you know you want to go into data science?
If you have no academic or professional experience, I might suggest you keep your eyes open for any tech trainee programs in your area

Defiantly do go enroll in some sort of academic training, but I'm just saying you should try to get your feet wet and see what areas you really like

[dapper depot]

!ban 817150154439655424 racism

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @grand flower permanently.

[grave apex]

Hello I recently started learning Payton like a month or so, but it just started as a new thing to learn, but recently I have been thinking about what path should be the one to fallow

Like I have i never thought I was going to get hooked up with programming and started to get interested in it as a career, if any suggestions as of the path to start with or recommendations, I do not attend to any course or anything just YouTube and practice

[delicate bane]

https://roadmap.sh/ is a good place to start

[warped egret]

Hi Guys, I am really sad about myself, it is been 4 months, I did not get any offer still. I learned very hard, I think should I give up? Do you guys have any idea? so tough now ....

life so hard....

[smoky quest]

Help us help you.
You haven't even given any information about yourself other than the fact you have been trying to look for a job for 4months. The more context you can give, the better we can understand and help

[warped egret]

thanks, i will try to think in this way, and think how to do in this way...

well, just think how to help and better for everyone...

[smoky quest]

I was more referring to help us help you.
What you told us is no different than me coming to you and asking you: Hey @warped egret , I have learned guitar and trying to join a band for 4 months without success. Should I quit?. You would be missing so much information about helping me making such decision like:

• how good am I with a guitar?
• how have I tried to approach bands?
• how does my resume look like?
• do bands refuse me after talking to me or are they completely not replying to my inquiries?
  *...

In your case, just the fact of having a degree or not can make a huge difference. So does the country in which you are trying to work in and how you are applying to jobs and in which field

[warped egret]

appreciate your reply...!!!
I was a support engineer, not much coding, I am trying to apply SRE and Devops roles, and I am building up my coding part, cause I had some experience, and now I am working for K8s. which is the platform I loved, I have college degree. I am thinking to move to a more coding role, not just support engineer. And I dont wanna give up... So based on your note. I will keep do my best. help myself and in here if any, or for guys in here

really appreciated your note! anyway,,,, thanks

[warped egret]

thanks alot

[smoky quest]

I haven't said anything to help you get a job yet.
The only thing I said was to give us more information! So thanks for the additional context.

Now, considering you are working with k8s and you have a degree, I am wondering what you are attributing your lack of success to?
How many applications per weeks? How many replies?

[warped egret]

I think coding working experience... Because I was system/network admin/ now support engineer / I want to build up my coding so that I might get a better chance for a devops / sre role.

well, 500 application so far.. and 10 interviews... no offer yet... or most of time, no devops / sre job interview,,, most of time is still support role...

applying during week days... none stop... and keep learning, just in case I forgot the basic knowledge for basic interview questions...

so I guess maybe because I have no enough contribute in Github project to prove myself..... maybe ~

[summer roost]

what kind of degree do you have?

[warped egret]

college advanced 3.5 years degree,,,, plus intership..

computer system technology in Cambrian College

[smoky quest]

Out of the 10 interviews, why do you think they did not pan out?

Also feel free to post an anonymized version of your resume for feedback

[warped egret]

i guess this should be fine

i know this is suck ....sorry guys

[delicate bane]

and you were going for devops roles? my senior devops friend complains to me how everyone he interviews has a sys admin/networking background but he needs people with more cloud and dev backgrounds

dunno if thats actually helpful. just a small anecdote really. you should wait for more experienced folks to give their opinion.

[warped egret]

i do cloud too. SDN SDWAN

[delicate bane]

hmm if you did cloud, how come you dont have the specific services listed? he says people are usually most familiar with certain ones

[warped egret]

Thanks for that info... But I still wanna gain more in order to do that part.. not just be a support forever... I know I was suffer... if I cannot get in the door I cannot get that background forever... I know I am suck for that part... that is why I am still push myself... maybe waste time and effort.. I just wanna try more and see if it can me true or not...

[delicate bane]

i think you shouldnt be so down on yourself; transitions are tough. i have also heard cloud certificates are the type of certificates that are more useful and may help you in this case. lets also see what others have to say.

[smoky quest]

Overall, my main advice would be to make your resume more focused. As is, it looks all over the place and I am more confused than anything after reading it.
The rule of thumb is that the hiring manager will look at resumes and make a decision within 30-45s to reject or go further. So if they don't have a clear idea of who you are in 30-45 seconds, then your likelihood of getting a call back will severely decrease.

Furthermore if you are aiming at SRE, then your resume should make me thing you are a SRE. Right now, it looks closer to a sysadmin/support than a sre.

[warped egret]

So i need to convert this one to more looks like a SRE not just a sysadmin or something else... correct?

[smoky quest]

• Simplify it. too much stuff all over the place. It creates distraction and confusion
• If I am hiring a SRE, I want to see SRE stuff. Other stuff are cool but not really useful to me, or worse, could be used against you

[warped egret]

ok I will keep working on the resume ... appreciated...

[smoky quest]

don't hesitate to try different things and see what works better

[dim pelican]

Just came across this company named Revature that says they offer on the job training. Has anyone heard of this company?

[lean glade]

Hi, I'm Electronics engineer also have business and supply chain post-grad in Canada. I recently started learning Python more than a month but have zero job-related experience so far. Do you think is that good idea to find a non-paid training position? I'm not money-oriented and need a solid start-point to gain experience.

[pastel thunder]

Has anyone heard of subject matter expert, CHEGG?

Is it even worth mentioning in resume, under service and organization section.
Mentioning under experience seems to be too noob.

[analog lark]

I do have 2 years of experience in programming

It's just because they said "professional experience"

Thought he meant like actually working in the field

[near ocean]

thats what professional experience means

[analog lark]

Oh.

Oh sorry lol I'm not a native English speaker.

[near ocean]

when recruiters/hiring managers say experience they usually mean professional experience, as in, someone paid you to use X or Y technologies

[analog lark]

Hmm.

[silk rose]

Is this a skill to know Python matplotlib or numpy? Or is this just expected, taken for granted?
I use matplotlib, numpy, a bit pandas, and recently something similar to xarray, and hdf5.
Or are these useless library when I want to look for a job related to Python, please?

[dense mesa]

Yes, it's a skill
No, it's not just expected or taken for granted
No, these are not useless libraries when looking for a job

[silk rose]

Thank you. Do you know which areas outside academia have an interest in such things, please? Maybe combined with physics knowledge? 😄

Maybe I should explain. If I hear a Python podcast, they talk mainly about other libraries. Flask, Django. These are currently not relevant for my job. So I have no idea about them.

[near ocean]

pretty much any data science/ML/AI/data eng position is going to have you use numpy and pandas
theyre essential data manipulation libraries

if that's what youre going for then you should learn them to decent depth, otherwise working knowledge of them is fine

[dense mesa]

If outside academia you mean industry, any industry where you're working with a lot of data will have an interest in this. As @near ocean said, data science, machine learning, data engineering and so on

[dense mesa]

This explanation kinda confuses me, why do the libraries need to be relevant to your job? What is your job in that case? If you're listening to a podcast that talks about other libraries, you can learn them in your own time without needing to use it at work

[silk rose]

Thank you. Currently, I have only attended a course on machine learning (1d course). No knowledge there.
Why it relevant? If they were not used, useless knowledge. Nobody hires people without skills.
To be honest, I work currently two jobs in academia. My spare time is loaded with my own project I am not paid for. So learning Django or so, I have currently now time for.

And in the past I saw: Nobody gives any more time to learn something. You don't have the skills, but you could learn them? Out.

Maybe this is due to short-term contracts in acdamia. I don;t know, hence I am asking.

[silk rose]

Thank you mariosis. I don't know where I will go, but my backup plan is to try as Python programmer because I like figuring things out.

[dense mesa]

Just because a library isn't being used for a specific job, or mentioned in a specific podcast, doesn't make it useless

People get hired with the direct skills necessary because they have transferable skills and can be trained on how to do something new

[dense mesa]

This wouldn't be the case at bigger companies, they invest a lot in the learning and development of their employees

[silk rose]

Maybe I have to work on my self-marketing skills 🙂 and I messed up by academia.

[silk rose]

I am glad to hear. My impression in the last years was rather the opposite. Even highly skilled physicists were not hired by industry despite being able to learn and acquire knowledge quickly, program. I know there is still a difference between professional coding and coding, but one would not start at zero.

[dense mesa]

Did these physicists have any personal projects or evidence they had tried learning in their own time?

[silk rose]

Maybe I don't understand the question. Why in their own time? The person I have in mind analysis data every day writing code. A PhD shows one could acquire knowledge in a couple of years, a postdoc in even shorter time.

[dense mesa]

Why not in their own time? It seems unusual that an academic writing code all day would not get a programming job in that case

[silk rose]

I can answer this 🙂 No time for unittesting for example, it is more hacking than writing nice code.

[dense mesa]

Yeah I get that, we do the same in engineering. If it works it works, no need to test further

Which country is this for in that case? I know a few people here in the UK who went from engineering/physics/maths masters or PhDs straight into software engineering

[silk rose]

Germany.

[marsh wind]

that's kind of the thing really... industry does not want a dirty physics code, they want to have smth robust. We had small discussion on this in #pedagogy just few days ago, you can check it

[marsh wind]

#pedagogy message starting from around here

[dense mesa]

MATLAB file exchange has some interesting submissions

[silk rose]

@marsh wind Thank you I will check it out. Nice that I can talk with you here about this

[marsh wind]

m?

[marsh wind]

yeah, feel free. I have left academia about 3 years ago and working in industry for 2 years now

[silk rose]

Does it involve Python programming?

[dense mesa]

M?

[marsh wind]

I did not understand what you meant by file exchange has some interesting submissions

[unreal verge]

just wondering, can I add a bot I created for a company's discord to my cv?

[marsh wind]

+/- I started as Data scientist so it was pretty much 100% python and related stuff, so pandas, numpy, data viz and some flask. Later on I became a kind of product owner/data scientist so it has much less actually coding and stuff and much more interactions with clients, defining of requirements, deciding priorities, business logic etc. I do still some more tech things, mainly python/SQL and sometimes some devops shit....

[silk rose]

Thank you for sharing some insights. Maybe there is some hope for me 🙂

[silk rose]

What do you want to show with it? Is it relevant or the job?

[pastel thunder]

is PLC programming in domain of software engineer

[unreal verge]

I want to apply for a internship (I'm in 10th grade) in software dev jobs

[silk rose]

If it is relevant for the tasks in your internship, I don't see a problem. I target my CV according to the job, e.g. highlighting relevant things.

[dense mesa]

Look at the code quality in some less popular submissions: https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexchange/

[unreal verge]

I see, well it's a 2w internship for school so I might add it to show that I have somewhat of a experience

[dense mesa]

PLC programming isn't in the domain of a regular software engineer, you'd need to be trained on PLCs specifically. They're complely different to "regular" languages like Python or C++

[silk rose]

And one more hint: Is there a contact person mentioned? Try to call them beforehand and try to get more infos about the internship. Shows initative.

I am not in software engineering, but I think I have some experience with writing job applications.

[marsh wind]

there is 1000%. From my lab we were 3 who made this transition at various points of time. 2 directly from PhD, both in France, and 3rd guy after ~4 years of postdoc, ended up in Belgium. So not so far from you 🙂

[unreal verge]

Yeah, thanks a lot!

[silk rose]

I lived in France for a while, now i am in northern Europe. But happy to go back, even better if a company would allow part remote work. But I am older. My PhD is a while ago.

[silk rose]

YW, go get the internship!

@marsh wind What also means working knowledge? There isn't a day where I learn a new thing or a new trick in Python. Or is this still normal?

[marsh wind]

1000% normal.
how long ago did you finish your phd/ how many postdoc years you have? Cause it is true that companies my get a bit reluctant with those who are not freshly minted (but still I know people who transitioned after >10 yerars of postdocs)

[pastel thunder]

and what about arduino?

is it full on Software dev?

[ornate lotus]

What resume projects have you guys developed that helped you get a job?

[lusty radish]

hello my name is junaid and i want to become artifical intelligence engineer so what i can do...

[ornate lotus]

I am thinking of a discord clone

[dense mesa]

Arduino is technically software engineering but it's much lower level, it's not what you'd be doing as a "typical" software engineer working with high level languages

[dense mesa]

Tech with Tim has many videos on resume projects that can be done in a day/weekend

[pastel thunder]

should i mention in my resume?is it worth mentioning

[dense mesa]

Study computer science or do a software engineering apprenticeship, focus on AI after. AI is an extremely broad term, what are you interested in specialising into?

[dense mesa]

Yes, you should absolutely mention PLC programming and Arduino programming on a software engineering resume

[pastel thunder]

i mean i am talking of top schools and dont want any negative impact

[lusty radish]

i want to job in tesla company

[pastel thunder]

can i safely add it as a positive

[dense mesa]

Why Tesla? Why AI as well? Think about the questions and work backwards to think about what you need to learn. My previous answer doesn't change either way

[dense mesa]

You seem convinced it's not relevant, my advice would be to put it on because it's still related

[unreal verge]

thanks!

[lusty radish]

so i really want to earn money so much with coding so what is your advice

[pastel thunder]

i will add then...its certainly my second internship....what do they expect lmao

[dense mesa]

I've given two messages advice of above, reread them and then take a look at:
https://roadmap.sh and https://teachyourselfcs.com

[lusty radish]

ok thanks

[ornate lotus]

Dont just do it for the money

[lusty radish]

ok ok

[lusty radish]

thank you so much for giving me a roadmap can you send anymore road map for data science or a software engineer

[dense mesa]

There are roadmaps for both of those on the link I sent. Are you reading my messages?

[lusty radish]

yes

[ornate lotus]

just learn python and a datascience lib and then expand after you are able to teach that

eg Pandas

[foggy depot]

Matt Harrison has a great pandas book

[pliant token]

Hi newbie in this group. Any tips to learn quickly in coding?

[true remnant]

Hey there

I'm kinda confused

thinking of finding someone similar to my situation

I'm Lithuanian but shortly gonna move to Australia, coz I'm concern about current situation with Ukraine 🇺🇦

However, I wanna learn code over there, Australia, gonna do kind of joinery work

But wanna study code on my own, I've tried it several times and failed never finished

Anyway ideas? :)

[pliant token]

If you are moving to another country first is to assess what are the job markets if you plan to stay for longterm.

[pliant token]

How did you try? That’s why, this group exists in having the expectation of any expert could help or advice the beginners like us.

A support or community group will play a big part indeed!

[true remnant]

Well, it's definitely more opportunities over there and way more competitions too; therefore, it's kinda hard to tell but definitely it's safer than than in my country

[true remnant]

Reading, following tutorials etc all the time on my own, at the beginning I have that spark but after a while it's gone :( I'm more people person and it would be great to have an accountability buddy

[pliant token]

Are there refugees moving in your country? Hmm, it is in Europe continent if I am not mistaken so most likely, greatly affected.

This group is probably a good medium for support

[true remnant]

Yeah, it's one of the Baltic countries

[pliant token]

If you personally affected by the war, then rearrange yourself would help before starting unto something. Get yourself stabilized emotionally, physically, mentally and the habitat.

[true remnant]

At that stage I'm not but who knows what might happen in the future and we aren't talking just economical crisis but a potential war even though it's unlikely but still there's some chance.

[pliant token]

In terms of economy, the status at your sides adds to the pandemic situation globally in almost two years. By now, most are trying to recover from the pandemic but then, we are all affected by the war. In most places, indirectly maybe.

A good chat here with like minded is great!

Or anyone who wants to achieve the same result

[true remnant]

I see, anyway thx for the reply and piece of advice 😉

[pliant token]

Thanks for the chat too. I was actually looking for a helping hand then it happened we are both the same. 🤣

[delicate bane]

my friend is considering grad school for physics (current physics undergrad). should i tell them to reconsider? they already know most likely they will have to transition to tech so they have already started learning python (for the lab as well as industry). what are your thoughts?

[marsh wind]

Depends
Why he wants to do PhD? What country?

[delicate bane]

Thailand. as for reason, im not sure

[marsh wind]

Ooph. Have no info at all about how it works in Thailand... But here's what I think: doing a PhD in physics is worth it if person is set to continue in research.

It's OK reconsider it down the road, totally understandable. But doing phd if you are already not planning research is a bad idea imo

Unless there are other very important consideration. For example visa bcs you want to stay in XY country for strong reason, family for example and it's the only way.

[dense mesa]

Seems pretty pointless to do a physics PhD and go into tech anyways

[dense mesa]

Is this in the context of careers?

[delicate bane]

i also thought this but wanted to hear you guys' thoughts too

much appreciated.

[dense mesa]

If you consider opportunity cost, it's directly disadvantaging someone to do a PhD and then switch, rather than switching earlier. Like, literally years are lost

[pliant token]

Hi thanks for the reply. It could be an option. I have seen the flexible range of this skills plus the application of my career experience.

[dense mesa]

Ok, asking because this channel is for career discussion specifically. If you need help learning python, there's better resources in general

[pliant token]

Where is it?

[dense mesa]

#python-discussion

[pliant token]

Ok Thanks

So this group is actually general discussion related to careers. Got it!

[dense mesa]

For python careers yes

[dense mesa]

Please don't go into other channels to ask for help

[manic yacht]

: |

[analog sun]

!mute 801198653740941322 1w You have not listened to your warning of not posting off-topic screenshots.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @manic yacht until <t:1650568465:f> (6 days and 23 hours).

[vapid jay]

what's the problem with physics

[delicate bane]

there is no problem with physics. did you happen to read the following responses to my question? i think they answered it very well.

[smoky frost]

How do i get a job as remote developer ?

[smoky quest]

You apply to remote jobs>

[smoky frost]

Where is that?

[smoky quest]

It depends on the country, but Linkedin and indeed are pretty popular in many countries

[smoky frost]

Can i get a job via discord ?

[smoky quest]

why not?
Possible, yes; likely, no

[vapid jay]

so i am done with my current job. I am sick of being this low contributor and i hate the lack of mentorship. Its clear that my coworkers don’t like me because they don’t try to help me, even when I ask for help (yet they’re so willing to help the newer coworkers)

So after 1.2 years here, I’m trying to find a better environment that has much more mentorship and support for junior employees

[smoky quest]

nice! The market is hot too

[brittle thorn]

Seen so many do it lmao

[honest pivot]

Depends which tech

[brittle thorn]

At least he gets a PHD if ever lmao I stopped at MS (units) and went into IT ....its an insurance at least he can teach at uni...let him weigh it carefully it depends on his motivations and interests and risk tolerance.

[brittle thorn]

If he enjoys doing research then the years arent lost..

[dense mesa]

Yes I agree, the context was knowing that they would go into tech

[brittle thorn]

So we cant actually give sound advice without a full picture...I would not dissuade anyone from going to grad school unless we know his or her motivations... most academics are passionate about research and go to IT later when they have families to support... If they enjoy it it isnt a loss.

Money shouldnt be the sole measure

[dense mesa]

"most likely they will have to transition to tech"

My advice was if they know they're gonna switch, it makes sense to not do a PhD

[brittle thorn]

Many do successfully

[vapid jay]

I put not know at all about python and I speak not very good English I do how

[marsh wind]

It's not about that. There's little doubt that transition is possible. The point is that going into phd knowing you don't plan to stay in academia is not very wise in a general case. World of academic research is a rather specific place. And I wouldn't recommend going in for fun or out of curiosity

[dense mesa]

If I get the master's degree apprenticeship offer, I get a 2 year funded masters with paid work alongside it, pretty good mix of industry and teaching

[marsh wind]

Yeah it's pretty common here in France. I think 30-40% of our staff was hired after internships or apprenticeships

[dense mesa]

Master's degree apprenticeships? I'd never heard of it in the UK until a friend sent me the ones I applied for

[marsh wind]

Right. At least it's quite popular in tech related degrees as well as stuff like marketing and etc. France unis are considered mediocre places at large so if you want a respected degree you'd need a private-ish school. And those would often cost some 5-20k a year depending on school so for many people apprenticeships are the only way to afford it

[sharp thunder]

Hi guys out of curiosity, I just sent out my applications to jobs for junior python roles with my GitHub link in my resume for them to see my projects of 6. I just have experiences as a system admin in my resume but no tasks or responsibilities that involve python use just SQL…is there a strong possibility hiring managers could ignore my application due to my experience and not possibly seeing my GitHub projects??

[plucky karma]

Yeah... but what you should really do is make friends with some Software Developers and ask them to push your resume to Hiring.

That'll at least get it in front of someone. Ask for feedback if you get rejected and see if they provide any.

[sharp thunder]

Damn , is that how other people did just like me when jumping into Devops ?

I know some went through code boot camps to get in

[graceful mason]

In my experience your GitHub will possibly be checked out further into the recruitment process, and gives good content for a technical interview, but will be ignored in the initial CV screening

[sharp thunder]

I see, I figure the questions they’d ask me for the technical would pertain from how I did this for my projects or answering advanced coding questions

[delicate bane]

if you want to send an anonymized version of your resume here, people can give some advice and that may help

@sharp thunder

[vapid jay]

Thoughts on learning Python for machine learning internship? Currently doing a course on udemy for general knowledge and then plan to specialize in machine learning for an internship. Any advice?

[dense mesa]

Why wouldn't you learn python for ML? What other languages are you considering

[vapid jay]

I'm broadly interested in a lot of computer science fields, but machine learning sounds like a fun specialty. Was considering web dev, but now doing Python all the way, so machine learning is the way to go. I was mostly unsure about the quickest way to get an internship, but I realize that in my current situation, I don't need to worry about that, so I'm just doing what I like now. I was considering android app development with java, but that's a language I am deferring in lieu of Python.

[dense mesa]

Are you able to apply for internships? You keep editing your message so I'm not sure what your actual question is

[vapid jay]

I am able to apply for internships, but I guess my question is, more specifically, what types of ML projects would employers most want to see? I may be presumptuous in asking, but I I'm just fishing around for ideas to consider for the future. Sorry if I'm confusing you, but basically my goal is to get an internship, but not quickly. Apologies

[dense mesa]

Just start anywhere with a basic project, for example by looking up "python machine learning project for beginners"

Get the easy stuff done and start figuring out what you need to learn to advance. There's nothing specific they're looking for in most cases, just evidence you've learned something

[wicked parcel]

does anyone have a python proyect and needs help with it?

[vapid jay]

oh ok, thank you. I really appreciate it. I will do that then. My goal is to make a project that involves a lot of Python programming concepts so I can really show I know my stuff. Thank you so much 🙂

[wicked parcel]

im currently looking foward on geting some experience

[dense mesa]

This isn't the channel to ask, try #python-discussion

[dense mesa]

Don't plan too much or think too deeply into what you need to do. My tip would be go to https://kaggle.com and just start doing the beginner ML course

[vapid jay]

Got it. Thank you. Perhaps I'm just a bit anxious and overthinking it. It tends to happen to me sometimes. Thanks!

[dense mesa]

Nah it's not you, it's common for beginners to get stuck with what to do, rather than just doing

[vapid jay]

Ah, I see. Perhaps it is just analysis paralysis then. Makes sense. I guess part of the journey is the path to figuring out the route

[delicate bane]

good luck. if you get stuck or have any questions, feel free to ask in #data-science-and-ml

[shadow mist]

I wonder if it's possible to find a new job if you have ~2 years of experience...

[smoky quest]

yeah, try things and see what you like and dislike! Even ML itself is pretty broad as a field

[autumn urchin]

I feel like my Python skills are limited. I started learning about two years ago with free online resources, and then I bought a Udemy course. Since then, I've made a number of projects for myself for fun and to improve work life. The most complex thing I've made was program with a user interface using tkinter to automate oob configurations for servers. It reads Excel build documents and pulls data from a web api for variable data. It then pushes out configurations, based on that data, using Redfish. Finally it pulls data from the servers and creates a detailed multi-tab Excel report for all the servers. While I am happy with what I've accomplished, I know my code isn't pretty, and I am sure it is far from looking like anything professional. I've been working on leetcode problems recently and find that some of the easy problems are difficult for me. I would like to really develop my skills and become advanced with Python. I know this will take a long long time. My question is, what learning path do you suggest I take to accomplish my goal? Do I need to go back to college (I have a degree in immunology and infectious disease, wish I would have gone comp sci) or can I avoid the massive cost associated with that?

sorry for typing a small novel...

[dense mesa]

Apply for jobs, keep working on your projects, consider community college or access courses

[nocturne girder]

Pick a topic in python and start doing projects. Surely there is something related to your degree that is applicable.

I have a friend who works at the 10X genomics with a microbio degree and works as a SWE. Maybe look at what they are doing and attempt a related baby sized project

[dense mesa]

They've already mentioned they've done a number of projects

[nocturne girder]

Not immunology related projects

[autumn urchin]

I'm actually already in IT. I haven't done anything with my degree because of the low pay in that field. Money is a factor since I have a wife, a toddler, and a newborn. I am an Engineer for a large IT company, but I would like to get into a position more involved with something like data science and ML. Currently I work on some large data center projects. It's more of architect/sysadmin work.

I worked my way up from a junior field tech the past few years

[dense mesa]

You could read through Automate the Boring Stuff and start trying to automate parts of your job.

You should check out https://kaggle.com and do some of the ML beginner courses.

If you want to pick up some knowledge for interviews, https://teachyourselfcs.com is good

[autumn urchin]

Thank you 🙂

[dense mesa]

Data science and machine learning become a lot more straightforward once stuff starts clicking, my path involved doing data analytics and then having the "aha" moment to see how machine learning used the data stuff to do classification

In fact, when you "understand"/grok machine learning, or especially deep learning, it seems ridiculous how simple the small building blocks are

https://youtube.com/c/joshstarmer this channel is excellent for intuitively understanding the stats/data stuff

[autumn urchin]

That makes sense to me. I had some moments like that with learning, at least the extent of what I currently know, Python.

[autumn urchin]

awesome. I'll give that a look tonight before I crash. I really appreciate the guidance here.

[dense mesa]

For sure, it's great that you're working towards this stuff for your family so I'm very happy to help 😃

[autumn urchin]

yeah, I am a little underpaid at my current position. I had a conversation with my manager about that, and he even admitted my salary is well below what it should be. He said that's something that would be corrected over the next six months. We'll see. Even if I weren't able to get an increase to my income, I feel like I'd be much happier with this stuff. I really enjoy coding and problem solving.

[dense mesa]

https://ardalis.com/profit-center-or-cost-center/

[autumn urchin]

🤔 interesting. thank you

[nocturne girder]

Oh yeah, immunology is weirdly low pay. $50k out of college, $85k 5 years out of school

Compared to mechE, one of the lowest pays of the engineers, $75k out of school, $100k at 5 years

[ripe pagoda]

what about a python dev

[nocturne girder]

I don’t know, but probably is less consistent based on how much you know

[summer roost]

"python dev" isn't a job title, or even really a position. The pay you make as a developer depends on the type of work you're doing.

[vapid jay]

trying to get out of the tech support hellhole lol, gonna be interesting to be dedicated to this

[nocturne girder]

Join the club

31 here

[vapid jay]

when did you start learning?

[nocturne girder]

March 1

I did a bit over a year of matlab and vba before, so it was learning syntax not logic

The hard part for newbies is the logic I think, just because its so much more rigid

[red pagoda]

can debugging be a part time job

[smoky quest]

no

[red pagoda]

if get good at small coding

like after mastering the fundamentals and coding like 200 programs. can i get a part time job atleast?

or can i be helpful for an actual developer

[smoky quest]

there aren't such things as half developer

[red pagoda]

what are we talking about here

then

[smoky quest]

it would probably be more helpful if you started from the beginning:
What is your current situation and what is your goal?

[red pagoda]

im done on level 0
i wanna master python
before that make some money i guess

[smoky quest]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Are you a teenager?

[ivory sluice]

in the beginning, pursuing revenue/making money has no overlap with learning programming

[red pagoda]

after level 2?

[red pagoda]

yes unfortunately

[ivory sluice]

if you have monetizable skills and people willing to employ you, sure

[red pagoda]

what should i expect when u say monetizable skills

[ivory sluice]

these 2 components are long term goals though

[red pagoda]

how long are we talking about

[smoky quest]

lucky you! You have tons of future opportunities.

At your stage, I would then recommend to focus on getting to university for a CS degree. That's what open the most doors.
As mentioned by @ minaberry, focusing on money without skills is not going to be successful for you. So instead, you could focus in exploring the field and the different skills and languages. Make websites, mobile apps, backend, play with some ML and make some robots. It will help you establish some CS culture, learn how things fit together and what you like and dislike

[red pagoda]

im i supposed to drop the money making attitude?

[ivory sluice]

with many preceding steps, like going to school, ideally a university degree. it will be very difficult to "break into" the industry and get your first job without that. but if you do somehow manage, it will likely be lower pay than it would have been if you were exposed to more opportunities in school. this is on top of actually learning programming

[smoky quest]

yes. Have fun and enjoy it

[red pagoda]

there no chance of doing part time or such thing at all?

[ivory sluice]

idk anyone that is employed part time doing programming.

if your aim is quick cash there are probably other avenues more appropriate than coding?

[red pagoda]

well like making mini game or making small website for a small business

[red pagoda]

nah making is a part of it. experience is the main stuff here

[ivory sluice]

so you can be a freelancer, but it's a long road of marketing and selling yourself. i'd wager most aren't cut out for it

[red pagoda]

what about helping a developer?

on debugging or writing not complicated but time consuming codes

[ivory sluice]

especially with many DIY website tools these days, if a business is on a budget they'll do it themselves. if they have a budget to hire a real pro, you'd have to convince them you're the right pro for them.

[ivory sluice]

devs don't hire assistants

[red pagoda]

freelancing isn't gonna fit me at all

[red pagoda]

why?

[ivory sluice]

so you're thinking a corporate job and a fixed regular pay?

then take the path recursive_error explained above

and work hard ;)

are you in middle school or high school?

[red pagoda]

anything which comes with experience and money

[red pagoda]

high school ima graduate next year

[ivory sluice]

in the US?

[red pagoda]

nop asia

[ivory sluice]

then find out from people in your area and network who have succeeded in doing what you want to do, and emulate them.

if you don't have people like that to ask, then you can take the anecdotes from people here

most if not all will agree that learning a skill to set yourself up to have a career and making $ simultaneously doesn't work

[red pagoda]

so yall telling me that there no such thing as part time ?

[ivory sluice]

why would anyone hire a part time dev? i want full time devs

[red pagoda]

part time job cannot just be developing

[ivory sluice]

i didn't understand that

yeah ofc there are part time jobs that aren't dev work

[ivory talon]

When something that you're doing will last for months, as is the case in software development:
A bad job done is worse than no job done at all, and making sure that a part-time did their job right would take about as many resources as a senior doing it in first place.

[ivory sluice]

work at a restaurant, work retail.. these are good part time jobs

[red pagoda]

so no chances at all?

[ivory sluice]

very few things are truly impossible
but making decent money as a part time job doing dev work.. that does seem very close to impossible.

if you consider that you don't have programming skills yet, it is 99.99999% impossible

[red pagoda]

what about 6 or more months of continuous work

[ivory sluice]

try it, but a unit of time does not equate to getting a job. the formula is more complex than that

school, CS degree or some kind of uni degree, knowledge as demonstrated by your portfolio, connections, applying, putting in time to practice your interview skills, luck.. these are all

part of the formula

[red pagoda]

woohh. alright i think i should consider dropping my plan lol

[ivory sluice]

however, 6 months of consistent work and practice? it won't be a waste of time if you set your sights on learning python. you can learn a lot in 6 months

or you can learn a little or a moderate amount. that's up to the determination of the learner

[red pagoda]

yeah sure

still doesn't get me money 😫

[ivory sluice]

ask your parents for allowance or get a job if you want money lol

[red pagoda]

yup

[ivory sluice]

for day 1 of python: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc

[pearl star]

I can't agree. In Poland it's common thing to hire students part time. They have lower salary but can learn real work and after graduation join as full time worker.

[brittle thorn]

There is actually but its competitive too and you ought to hab portfolio

[red pagoda]

what kinda portfolio

[brittle thorn]

Yep

[brittle thorn]

Whatever skill you want to showcase

[red pagoda]

can i get that part time from asia?

[red pagoda]

uh python and Django?

[brittle thorn]

Then make stuff

Stop asking start coding

[red pagoda]

make what dude?

[brittle thorn]

Whatever you want to make in Python or any comp lang

Or stay in school please

Dont be in a rush to make money

[ripe narwhal]

do cp as well

[true remnant]

I think mate, you have to reconsider your choice, if u wanna quick money I don't think coding is your best choice, since this long term game and I'm not just talking about the set of skills but it's mind game too. I've been trying years to learn code but for some reason I quit after a while. Perhaps, you have way more stronger "WHY" than me to learn coding

[brittle thorn]

Programmer burnout is real so yes to above

Money should not be your motivation

[red pagoda]

i got motivation. from money im just talking about a part of the journey

[red pagoda]

cp?

[dense mesa]

My role is Python Developer :P

[past plover]

Hello guys. I hope yall having a good day. So I'm a front-end developer and i was wondering if i should write in my personal website "front-end developer" or "web developer"

I mean do customers even know what front-end means? isn't it confusing?

[peak halo]

if you're strictly a front-end developer and you don't know how to do back-end development, it would be more ingenuous to say that you're a front-end developer.

[past plover]

Yes only front-end. but isn't it confusing to others?

[peak halo]

I don't know, but the alternative is you having to explain it to them anyway if people ask you about doing what is ultimately full-stack web dev. and I would suspect that in your position, you're looking to be hired by a web development team that includes back-end developers.

[past plover]

Thank you for your explanation sir! 🙂

[dense mesa]

Why not say frontend web developer?

[finite coral]

Can anyone suggest any platform from where I can start my journey in Data Structures & Algorithms???

[peak halo]

that would be a question for #algos-and-data-structs, though a good place to start would be to learn and implement the classic sorting algorithms and describe what makes one more efficient than another.

[finite coral]

Thanks for valuable suggestion :)

[scarlet lodge]

Hello, sorry if i write on wrong topic. Hi all. I want to change jobs. and try my self in (programming) python (like most easy language for beginner ) . The question is, in which direction to start in order to start earning as soon as possible. Lots of free time. Who will advise what? But definitely not AI !! I think about web dev, but , i want to have fun , but i dont think web dev is funn. any help?

[peak halo]

what job do you have currently? web development is more accessible than other branches of development if you don't have a CS background.

[scarlet lodge]

@peak halo i am Team Leader on PUB/NightClub

i want to change my life style xD

[peak halo]

that is, you're a supervisor at a bar/pub/venue that serves alcohol?

[scarlet lodge]

yep

[peak halo]

I see. perhaps someone who started working in web development without a CS degree can tell you how they did that. It might be that web development bootcamps are a viable option in this case, but I am not sure.

[scarlet lodge]

@peak halo now, i want to move on part time job, to earn like, just pay my bills+food. and learn new skillz... to move from tthis kind of job

[past plover]

I'm not sure, I've not seen anyone say this. Is it ok?

[dense mesa]

Why wouldn't it be ok

[past plover]

Yeah i'll use that. Thanks!

[loud violet]

Joining a bootcamp is a good idea.
As long as the web application is not involving some complex algorithm, we don't need CS degree.

Maybe start from simpler development, ie. WordPress, Flask. Then move to more complex topic such as Django.

Example of complex algorithm: bubble sort, algorithm complexity, big data, machine learning, artificial intelligence, etc.

Just keep use ready to use algorithms and libraries, you will be safe.

[dense mesa]

Do you classify big data and ML as algorithms in their own right?

[loud violet]

No, I don't. What I really mean is "complex enough topics"... Just keep on much simpler areas, ie. CRUD applications, form apps, REST APIs

[dense mesa]

Ah ok, was a bit misleading since you said example of complex algorithms and listed different stuff

[ivory sluice]

that's interesting, please share more information on that. is that common for all professions in poland, or specific to programming? is it a type of apprenticeship? internship? and what kind of students, secondary/high school students? university students?

[summer roost]

I had 3 internships in college in the US, and I stayed on part time at 2 of the 3 after the internship officially ended. Places that hire interns don't necessarily care about whether it's part time or full time, since they're not reliant on the intern for any deliverables.

[ivory sluice]

would they have kept you part time for a long period of time?

[peak halo]

A few of the places I interviewed with during my senior year asked if I would consider working for them part time until I graduated (though I wasn't offered any positions until after I had graduated). One of my classmates was offered and accepted such an arrangement.

[ivory sluice]

what you and godly are describing sound like temporary arrangements while they transition students into prospective full-time employees

[peak halo]

sounds like it

[summer roost]

In my case, it was temporary with no chance of becoming a regular full time employee, since I was a full time student at the time.

[peak halo]

I also know of people who had recurring internships at the same company each summer, and then got full time jobs there after graduating.

[ivory sluice]

so did you quit when you wanted to, or was there like a contracted end date?

[summer roost]

Quit when I wanted to

[ivory sluice]

that sounds unique to me, or in your exp is that/was that fairly common

i would imagine those kinds of opportunities were geared towards students that are eligible for software dev internships to begin with, meaning geared towards students that were pursuing software dev careers after graduating

[pearl star]

University students mostly. But I heard about clever high school students as well. It works mostly as internships but You get paid. Also there is school type in Poland "technikum", thats at the level of high school but it's directed at teaching Your future job. So You have to pass internship to get Your degree.

[summer roost]

It was fairly common in my experience for people to transition from full time internships to part time dev work during the school year.

[pearl star]

I think its quite common in Europe. You are still learning so You work part time to learn working in groups, became better coder, get extra money.

[marsh wind]

in Ukraine I had many peers who while being students worked part/full time jobs as devs. Unrelated to any interships or stuff like that

[ivory sluice]

cc @red pagoda ^^^^^^ read above

[marsh wind]

but this kind of students working I think is fairly specific to Ukraine and maybe some other non EU or post soviet coutnries, because often there is no official trace of you working there, or very little of it just to have some kind of safeguard

[pearl star]

What do You mean by "official trace"? Companies are mostly from private sector, they can hire You or not. Who decide then what is "official" in other countries?

[marsh wind]

means, no contract or contract for minimal salary, with an actual salary paid in cash, no taxes. Means that when you say they hired a person might not mean that they actually hired.

P.S. not saying that was the only way of course. There were also people who would be hired officially, with proper contract, salary etc etc. But tax evasion where only small part of actual salary is official is fairly popular even these days and on all levels not just for students. But like 10-15 years (think 2008 crisis and around those times) ago "hiring" students without actually making it official was a fairly common way to get some cheap work done and evade taxes. And then if thing work out well with particular person it can flash out of course into a real and official work relationship

[placid owl]

do you get a completion letter?

[marsh wind]

I am not sure what or who are you referring to... Or what do you mean by that 🙂

[placid owl]

I mean some sort of letter or something which says you did the internship as a sort of proof. (I dont know if thats a common thing Ive worked at only one place and Ive gotten it)

[pearl star]

Ooh, okay :) on "black market". In Poland I didn't hear about it in IT, rather in different areas.

[lusty radish]

hello

i want to become a data scientist any one help me!

[marsh wind]

well I think it declines now bcs these days you can register yourself as "self entrepreneur" and that way you will pay smth like 5% tax plus something like 50$/month of special tax, which in the end is not much. But then you can make a contract to offer service to other people/companies, so in IT many people work like this: essentially you can have huge companies where only some core will be actual full time employee and 80% of devs will be "contracted" rather than hired.
But before this mechanism became so widespread black market was a way.

[marsh wind]

again, I am not sure if you are asking this question as response to someone or to some parictular message.... if you were asking me, then I don't have the answer

[placid owl]

nvm I was responding to this

[marsh wind]

oh ok. What I said had nothing to do with internships actually 🙂

[red pagoda]

now im getting somewhere ty

[dense mesa]

Are you reading and applying the advice myself and others have given you previously?

[lusty radish]

yes

[dense mesa]

It's just that if you'd looked at the resources, you would have a list of things to do to start getting into data science. Kinda confused as to why you're asking again

[vapid jay]

Sorry to be a dumb-dumb and/or blind, but which resources are you referring to? I was looking for the applicable channel, but didnt see one.

🙇‍♂️

[lusty radish]

i am so confused in data science and data analyst

[dense mesa]

The resources we referred @lusty radish to when they previously asked this question

[vapid jay]

I see.

Hi.

I am a full-time Australian worker in their late 20s who can’t enrol in formal education due financial obligations. I’m looking for a career change.

I do not have any programming or coding background, but I have used PCs my whole life and wish to pursue a career in data science.

In terms of online resources/courses, do you have any recommendations and/or tips you could suggest?

My only option at this stage is to use all my leisure to study at home. 🙇

[dense mesa]

https://kaggle.com to get started
https://roadmap.sh to see where you need to go
https://teachyourselfcs.com to get there

[vapid jay]

Thank you. I’ll take a look. I know Computer Science is generally quite maths orientated. Do these resources address or factor in a lack of knowledge of a certain level of mathematics?

[dense mesa]

Computer science is heavily maths orientated, programming not so much, but they factor it in

[vapid jay]

I know there's no requirement for me to tell my current employer why I'm quiting, but is there anything wrong with me just telling them I got a more competitive offer? I'd like to provide them some sort of explanation.

[summer roost]

data science requires much more math as part of the day to day job than software development does.

[summer roost]

There's nothing wrong with that. They may make a counter-offer, so you should have a plan for how you'll react if they do.

[vapid jay]

Yeah my current plan is to reject no matter what. If they counter then I feel like they'd probably just do that to keep me on and help me finish up with project I'm currently working on and then would try to find someone cheaper

[pearl star]

If they are like this then why do You feel guilty for quitting?

[vapid jay]

its a good company and the people are kind, also my first dev job so I feel like they really gave me a chance since im self-taught with no degree or anything else

[pearl star]

If You had enough skills that they picked You instead someone with degree then You should be thankful for Yoursefl not company. Just be polite, say that You have better offer, that You need new challanges. I don't think it would be worthy for them to give You a raise and then kick You out but if You say so...

[vapid jay]

Are these resources applicable if someone were to pursue a software engineer/developer path; a sufficient place to start?

[dense mesa]

Kaggle is for software with a focus on data science, roadmap is for whatever is listed, CS is for CS in general

[vapid jay]

If I may impose on you once again: do you have any additional resources for a software development route, or is that too non-specific?

[dense mesa]

A CS degree, associates degree, bootcamp, etc, is the most direct way in

If you can't do some form of higher education, just start learning with those resources now. Don't think about which one is better for which path, just write code and learn

[vapid jay]

Alright. Thank you. 🙇

[dense mesa]

Everything you need to know will start falling into place the more you learn

[peak halo]

I would be careful to whom you suggest a bootcamp as "the most direct way" as the circumstances in which it's a viable point-of-entry are more limited.

[dense mesa]

I don't personally agree with a lot of bootcamps, but the ones that only charge once the entrants get a software job are usually highly incentivised to get people into work

It won't be the best job but it's a job

[vapid jay]

It’s okay. I find “boot camps” quite dubious, synonymous with “crash courses”.

I won’t be bought in by buzz words.

Not to say I’m disregarding your advice, ANZ. Not all BCs are equal.

[delicate bane]

i dont have experience with bootcamps myself but the general advice i hear before investing money into one is that you should reach out to the graduates and ask them about their experience. i heard many can be predatory but there are also some good ones too, so i would do some diligent research beforehand.

[vapid jay]

Networking always pulls back the veil.

[dense mesa]

There are people offering bootcamps completely free of charge now in private communities

[vapid jay]

I will say I did the Udemy CS101 boot camp. Quite horrid, honestly. I do not know why it was scored so highly.

[peak halo]

I suppose that is a more trustworthy business model, though I guess it depends on what the bootcamp ends up costing compared to the wages its graduates earn. if a bootcamp only charges you once you get a job, but they partner with companies that pay low wages to get people placed, then they're essentially still entrapping people in unreasonable debt.

[vapid jay]

As always, devil is in the details.

[peak halo]

a few weeks ago on Talk Python they were talking about a data science bootcamp that was partnered with a specific company, and that company ended up discontinuing the bootcamp because they simply couldn't impart enough knowledge to get a good return on investment in that much time.

[delicate bane]

oh? which episode? i like to listen to podcasts

[peak halo]

I think it was episode 359

[delicate bane]

also yeah i feel like sometimes company needs cant be met with a bootcamp, especially for something like data science imo

[delicate bane]

oooo hey! they interviewed demetrios on this episode. i listen to his podcast

[torn cargo]

hi i have a question

actually I don't know if this is the right channel but it's not the end of the world anyway here is my question : im just 15 years old and im learning basics of python (i know basics of programming in c# but i need to be better in py) after that i want to be an ai, deeplearning developer (specially opencv things is looking so interesting) so i need an roadmap

[summer roost]

go to a university with a computer science program that has a specialization in AI or machine learning.

[shadow mist]

If you're re-modeling you resume and write that you've done consulting work for a company but it happens to be a very small start up, is it worth mentioning the name?

[peak halo]

I work in AI, and it's a difficult space to break into, even with relevant education. So the best thing you can do for the moment is position yourself into get into an AI/ML-related degree program. If you're in high school, admissions counsellors for those programs will probably look at your math grades especially. And any math class you can take before you finish high school is one less you'll have to take during the program.

And while Python is almost certainly the main language you'd use in an AI/ML career (at least for the foreseeable future), I would make learning programming or any AI/ML-related concepts second to doing what would make you a competitive applicant for those programs. The classes you're taking now take priority.

[torn cargo]

first of all Thank You. I forgot say something : im living in Turkey so we just have Computer Science degree program. We don't have any "Machine Learning / Deep learning " Degrees in university.And im in high school 10th grade and my Math exams is good i love math Specially algebra. At this time im improving my english + python skills.Is it early to start Deeplearnig at this age? Should I pay more attention to basic issues such as algorithms and data structures at this age?

[summer roost]

"Machine Learning" wouldn't generally be a separate degree, but rather a concentration you could take within your Computer Science degree program.

usually within a degree there's a set of core classes that everyone takes, and then concentrations or tracks that you can take that focus more in depth on specialized areas

[peak halo]

for me it was a concentration within a CS program. I'm hopeful that there will be more degree programs that are specifically about AI in the future, though.

[summer roost]

so the university might offer courses that would let you concentrate on Operating Systems, or on Data Science, or on Machine Learning, or things like that, usually in the form of 3 to 6 extra courses that you take all focused on that topic.

[peak halo]

it's not that it's too early to start learning about AI, but rather that your time is better spent preparing for university. And it's probably better spent developing your English skills as well. The university will expect you to have good grades--they don't expect you to know what they're going to teach you.

If you have all your other bases covered, and you want to start learning about AI, you can.

[summer roost]

spending time in high school focusing on math and English will likely yield much better rewards than focusing on machine learning - though it's definitely good to play around, experiment, try things out, and figure out what interests you.

[torn cargo]

thank you everyone for the help

[shadow mist]

Is it wise to have a github linked to your resume in spite of your GH having like 3 open source source projects?

[gilded valley]

if you don't want to talk about it in an interview, don't put it on your resume

[hollow sinew]

hey m just a student and learning python, and wanna ask if i can get a part time job after learning that

[gilded valley]

and if you have 3 stale projects - then it's probably not worth including

[pearl star]

It depends what country do You live and what You will learn.

[shadow mist]

I started working as a student by freelancing.
Didn't make much at first but it was fun and I learning

[peak halo]

@keen tree this isn't a meme-posting server

[safe loom]

Mfw got rejected from a DS offer because I lacked a solid mathematics background.

I don't even know if the offer was legit. I heard about it from some dude who saw my profile and wanted to orient my resume towards this company and I had to mail him back only to heard that I've been rejected.

So far I've found that doing meetups was the most efficient strategy to push forward the process to the 2nd interview but they're rare... Also I should probably start doing data study gigs for people on Fiverr.

[dense mesa]

What's your educational background?

[safe loom]

Masters of Earth Sciences and Environment. We did some statistics and signal study but mostly mathematics for physics.

[dense mesa]

Ah ok

[violet sequoia]

Hey I'm working on an independent study project for my university. I was wondering if I could ask someone, that works in the cs field or is a cs student, a few questions. This would be about my idea for a search engine for niche packages/repos. Feel free to dm me.

[delicate bane]

yeah seems to be the case. very junior DS just dont provide enough business value, even in consulting, is what she said. interesting that the bootcamp then pivoted to training them as more big data engineers with a flavor of DS

[safe loom]

When it comes to Fiverr, is it wise to propose a Streamlit dashboard for a set of data as an entry level gig? Not sure if I should set it as 5 USD since the task requires some customization but I'm also a nobody.

In fact I'm afraid I might lose the client's trust haha.

[clear loom]

If you're just getting started then the bare minimum amount of money will help you get your ratings up, doing some for free to farm ratings also works wonders in the long run

[little gull]

;-

[safe loom]

Also I need some window to do it part-time + improve my skills I can make a full data menu for customers at a more expensive price.

For a first gig I thought about analyzing other's data and offer a rapport as a delivery method, code source included.

Tutoring could also work

[delicate bane]

tutoring would probs be more cost-effective, especially since you could tutor programming

[thin lantern]

Let's say you don't know how to code AT ALL

[smoky quest]

what if we do say that?

[thin lantern]

Would you pay $700 dollars for one feature that sort your songs on a specific open source media player?

I am doing a freelance thing for this guy I met.

And he wants a feature added to an open source media player. Basically to sort the songs.
I'm not sure how I should go about charging him.

[smoky quest]

That's possible. The same way you pay an artisan to redo your kitchen.
Whether that's something your specific client is willing to pay that much is another thing.

[thin lantern]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Even if it is justified, who in their right ming would pay that much for a feature?

[vapid jay]

Just calculate the time it'd take you and charge your hourly rate.

[smoky quest]

Multiple users can pool the money in some cases

[thin lantern]

I'm just going to shoot my shot.

It's something he wanted for himself, not that many people even notice the lack of sorting from what I've seen

[summer roost]

you might have better luck if you break it down as an estimate of N hours at $X per hour

if you think that's the price tag it would cost to make it worthwhile to build the feature, the client is more likely to pay it if you give some transparency into why the cost is so high.

[thin lantern]

That's a really good idea. That makes a lot of sense.

[shadow mist]

Any resume advice would be appreciated:

[graceful mason]

Could of small things:

• fix the anchoring for remote next to bottom work experience so it's consistent with the others
• instead of putting all data science and ML libraries list everything important you are competent with, both because you don't know all libraries and you don't know what buzzwords recruiters/software are going to be looking for
• put your current job at the top of the work experience

I'm also wondering which job you worked full time at as a student, does that have anything good you could list under work experience?

[shadow mist]

Wdym?

[graceful mason]

You said worked full time as a student from September 2016 -> June 2020, did you include that work in your work experience?

[shadow mist]

Don’t really want to include construction and other strange jobs in my resume haha

[graceful mason]

You should definitely consider whether any of those jobs have relevant experience - companies don't just look for software, an example of team-leading or customer service could be relevant especially when all of your listed experience is remote

[shadow mist]

As of my experience, does this look good enough to land a mid-level gig?

[graceful mason]

I think you generally need around 2-4 years of solid experience to not be considered junior, but it depends on the company and industry honestly

[summer roost]

As a general rule, you're no longer a junior at the point where you are trusted to own and run a project from the requirements gathering phase through development and to deployment. So, the question is whether you're at that level, and whether you can convince the company so.

[shadow mist]

Aha

[vapid jay]

Change your first paragraph to something like the following. "Influential in python and all of its data science and ML libraries while also working with C++, R and JS/TS. Worked with numerous SQL and NoSQL databases, including Postgres, Mongo, and Redis, while continuously learning new technologies and languages"

I'm guessing English is not your first language?

Change the format of the resume as well. It looks horrible.

Don't identify as a "data scientist." You have a bachelor's degree in computer science, not mathematics. Or, more specifically, statistics.

Other than that, it's not bad. I'd recommend paying someone to fix it, though. No one is going to look at your resume like that.

Also, take your GPA out of the resume. Don't give it to anyone unless they ask for it.

Yeah, it would be best if you fixed the grammar in that entire resume @shadow mist

It would be best to consider linking your project's source code in the resume or possibly the cover letter. Rather than having a section called "Projects" with a snippet of what they are.

[smoky quest]

minors can give an "accent". But they won't make or break it

[vapid jay]

Ahh I was hoping that wasn't the case lol.

[smoky quest]

On the bright side, it does mean that more doors are open to you

[vapid jay]

I'm trying to convince my self that this Tourte will be worth it next year.

[smoky quest]

not sure what a tourte is other than a specific type of quiche/pie

[vapid jay]

At the university I attend, we have cognates with our CS degrees. I've already finished a Math Cognate, and I'm also going to do a minor, but I have to do courses separate from the cognate courses and the required CS math. This means I will have done as much math as a math major.

Well, If I want the minor, next year I have to take Abstract Algebra, Numerical analysis, cryptography, and vector calculus.

[smoky quest]

it can give you a boost or a slight advantage if it's aligned with the desired job though

[vapid jay]

Alright, that's a good enough reason to do it then.

Do employers look at volunteer tutoring for university-based peer math learning programs. I was asked to be a peer learner, but the time commitment is ridiculous, and it's unpaid.

However, if that kind of thing stands out on a resume, I'd imagine it will be worth it.

These probably sound like ridiculous questions, but the time investment from me is massive. I need to make sure that I'm using this time correctly.

So I think a better question would be if the math peer learning program isn't great, what would be a better investment of my time to stand out?

[smoky quest]

Think about it from the other side: "How does that prove the candidate is a great fit for the job and they are better than the other candidates?"

That said, it can be a fun experience in itself and give you some insight in mentoring others

[vapid jay]

hmm.

[cunning trellis]

Does Unity support Python ?

Or if it doesn't support Python, then which languages does it support?

[honest pivot]

We made an offer to a guy who put down that he was previously a waiter at a chain restaurant. You can't really guess what the person looking at your CV might think, but for me I'm practically a socialist and believe all work is respectable. Plus someone learns all sorts of useful people skills working in a service job.

[smoky quest]

This is the wrong channel for such question as this channel is #career-advice .
You would have more chance for an answer by checking out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[nocturne snow]

Does anyone know if the salary for entry-level software engineers on levels.fyi/glassdoor are accurate for big tech in Europe?
I have an offer but unsure if I can use those numbers to negotiate, since they seem a bit off to me.

[smoky quest]

they seem slightly inflated but in line

[lusty radish]

hello

i want to become a software developer and i am soo confused in this field so waht i can do

[near ocean]

Would you mind sharing your offered salary and title?

[cunning trellis]

Thank you for the information, I've found the answer in #python-discussion .

[cunning trellis]

If you want to have a shot at game developing, you've to learn programming languages for individual softwares. For example : If you want to get into Unity, it supports C++ as its major language and it's best when using it in Unity.

[cunning trellis]

However, C++ is a very complex language, so you've to devote a lot of time to it.

[lusty radish]

i made a game with unity

[placid owl]

you mean C#?

[cunning trellis]

Oh yeah, C#.

[cunning trellis]

Sorry, you would be needing to learn C#. It's a basic language and you would only need about a week to earn its basics if you devote considerable time.

[cunning trellis]

Nice 👍

[lusty radish]

no i wanna to be a app developer or web developer

[cunning trellis]

If you want to be an app developer, then you can learn Python/React. I can tell you about these 2 only as my friend knows React and I'm currently learning Python.

[lusty radish]

which pays high

[cunning trellis]

I don't know about that. I'm not learning it from a job perspective but as a hobby.

[lusty radish]

ok thank you very much

[cunning trellis]

Welcome:)

[nocturne snow]

approx 60k excluding bonuses, level 60 at Microsoft in NL. Software related role

Fresh grad, but with masters degree and some industry experience

[dense mesa]

This is the third time you're asking here now, within a couple of days as well. Are you actually looking at what we're advising you to do?

[tranquil palm]

Hello i want to learn data analytics is it worth the time also i want to know is it too hard i have experience with web development but i want to learn a new growing technology can anyone help thankyou already

[dense mesa]

This channel is for careers discussion, try asking in #python-discussion

[tranquil palm]

@dense mesa thankyou for your help

[gilded valley]

remove personal info and post a picture of it here

[gilded valley]

If it's for an internship, you definitely want to try and keep it to a single page

[shadow mist]

Not the most pleasant message to wake up to haha, what could be worked on?

[gilded valley]

you can reduce the space given over to the administrative assistant - everyone knows pretty much what that entails, could be brought down to 1/2 bullet points that focus on the transferable skills it involved

and probably reduce the space given over to the HND, bring it down to only one line or two

you can probably condense it by removing some stuff about the HND, about the admin assistant, and removing 1-2 bullet points from each of the personal projects

these two could become "* Deployed application in multicloud setup using MongoDB Atlas, Docker, and a DigitalOcean Droplet"

[graceful mason]

I'd personally put the academic project above your personal projects, and swap around the skills and education

In my experience recruiters first care about what you can do, and then they care about who you are as a person. Their first glance at your CV will make sure that you have the skills and experience they need or prefer in a candidate, and once they have a list of people that fit that criteria they'll look at hiring who they think will fit in best at the company (based on interviews + more personal CV details)

That's why I think it's also important to put your skills right at the top

The academic project looks like some solid experience, and with CI/CD + scrum (which are both valuable things to show) are kind of a bridge between your professional experience and personal projects

[void topaz]

How to start machine learning?

From where should I start?

[graceful mason]

Try #data-science-and-ml

[void topaz]

Ok

[dense mesa]

Assuming it's because you want a career: https://kaggle.com

[vapid jay]

are there any python careers that would require math beyond high school level calculus

[true harness]

not sure what "beyond high school level calculus" means, but data science will use lots of stats. machine learning will need* multivariable calc

*people will say you don't actually need it, but it will be useful for understanding

[vapid jay]

it means topics typically not brought up in high school classes

it has to be somewhat vague since not all high schools teach the same stuff

[dense mesa]

If you're looking for python-specific careers that would require beyond that level of maths, then there are many. For example, data science, data engineering, machine learning engineering etc

If you're looking for ones that would not require that level, you can do a lot without understanding the fundamentals, or do something different like web development, security, backend

[vapid jay]

thank you @dense mesa 🙂

[dense mesa]

If you wanna self teach some basic but important calculus, look up "gradient descent", especially stochastic gradient descent with momentum

[vapid jay]

those words mean nothing to me 🙂

so that sounds fun

[dense mesa]

Stochastic: random
Gradient: how steep something is
Descent: going down
With momentum: it has momentum like a ball rolling down a hill

So pick random points, find the steepest downward gradient, travel in that direction and keep some momentum

[vapid jay]

I'm not sure what to say. Would you rather a stranger be honest with you or not get a job.

[swift veldt]

kick the hiker down the slope and see where they stop.

[wary wing]

hello
I just want to ask where is the best place I can become a master of Python?

I’m currently a beginner who has learned all basics I want to improve my skills

[shadow mist]

I always appreciate honesty, but statements without quantitative or qualitative backing aren’t worth much. Usually when someone has some advice to give, it is usually proceeded with reasoning. Beyond that, I like to know who the person who the person giving the advise is and what they’ve accomplished in regards to what they’re speaking about (are you a director, senior, recruiter or at least a mid-level?) My point is that I’m open to advice as long as there is something to back it up and it’s from a reputable person, that’s all.
I hope this doesn’t come off too critical.

[vapid jay]

Could you read what I wrote? I gave you examples. I took the time to help you. You have spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes. If you think your resume is acceptable, send it off, and don't waste people's time asking for help in the future.

If you do want a job, I'd advise fixing the grammar. If your first language is not English which is fine, hire someone. Some websites will critically assess your resume for a minimal price. I would have done it for free before your reply.

[vapid jay]

The statement is absolute truth; you have incorrect grammar, redundant messages trailing sentences, commas in the wrong places, spelling mistakes etc.

When coding, do you argue with the compiler or fix the issues and move on.

[shadow mist]

thanks, not sure if ur last message is a question or statement

[vapid jay]

I was just trying to help. Sorry if I'm coming off as critical.

[sleek cliff]

I’m looking to do some part-time work, but I’ve never done software dev professionally before. Where is a good place to start? Are there websites / tutorials I should be have a look at?

[vapid jay]

@sleek cliff open source is where it's at, I've found. The Linux Foundation and google summer of code have mentor/mentee programs that are so good.

I got a job doing a public talk on rop-exploitation to a room full of security professionals. I wrote an exploit live in c / asm, gave everyone handouts on x64 assembly, and did a small lecture on x64 before showing people how to rop. I find networking like this is enormous.

Maybe your local city has a python club that does meetups, which is also great for networking. A quick google search is probably best for this "Python coding group meetups {my city}." Hack events are also an excellent place to meet recruiters.

[sleek cliff]

Ok thanks! I’ll have a look into those resources

[solemn mica]

I have to ask, is every computer science degree (excluding ivy league or the like) worth the same?

[summer roost]

approximately. Very good or very well known schools are a bit better, but all accredited schools meet a common baseline

[solemn mica]

I ask because I found an online 3 year degree on computer engineering from some online college in italy and it seems very affordable so I was really considering it

[summer roost]

accreditation is the only thing that really matters - you'd need to do some research on the school to find out if the degree is or isn't recognized by any higher authority

[solemn mica]

Okay that's actually a very smart idea, however, how would I do that?

[summer roost]

that probably requires more knowledge of the Italian (or possibly European?) university system than I can personally offer.

[solemn mica]

Fair enough, thank you for your guidance tho! You're very polite

[graceful mason]

Imo the most important thing is you both have some sort of degree and finish it with some amount of professional experience. Try to find a degree with a placement year so that you can guarantee a year in industry, or make sure that you find summer internships

[true remnant]

is someone from Sydney?

[wheat shard]

hello guys i need help i need to make a project in https://robotbenchmark.net/benchmark/obstacle_avoidance/ can sm1 give me some tutorials to learn abt controll library or any usefull documentation

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This does not seem to relate to the topic of this channel. You may have more luck over #❓｜how-to-get-help

[graceful mason]

Try #microcontrollers and/or #data-science-and-ml

[wheat shard]

thank youu

[smoky quest]

np

[graceful mason]

Out of interest what do people think are the best questions to ask in an interview, or to just get a good idea about what a company is like?

[near ocean]

You could ask how long the position has been open for, whats the progression path in the company, what kind of metrics they use to assess employees

If you get to talk to a team member thats not a manager you could potentially be a bit more straightforward in asking whats wrong with the company but they'll probably (definitely) talk about it with the team after the interview

[dense mesa]

"what is it like when it's crunch time?"

[near ocean]

First you ask if there is a crunch period lol, and then you dip if they say yes

[vapid jay]

Hi, so I've been wondering about this for weeks. Let me start by telling that I'm a 15 year old highschool student right now, and I had two sort of plans of what to do after highschool.

The first one being applying and trying to get into some of the Unis I've been researching about, for their Bachelors' program of Computer Science.

What I'm wondering about is, what would be better. Trying to get internships? Or just getting any part-time jobs while I'm studying to handle my basic expenses? (since I plan on studying abroad). What would practically be the right choice?

I know, interns don't make any money, but if I manage to make it as an intern in a big company, would that be helpful?

[near ocean]

Unpaid internships are not worth it, youre not a slave
If you can find a part time job in the industry while you study that would probably be better than an internship, but its also harder

[vapid jay]

I thought so too. I'm just sort of confused.

[gilded valley]

Unpaid internships are very uncommon in the tech industry in the uk, the eu, and the us

[vapid jay]

I don't think I can find jobs in the industry (programming) without qualifications. Or can I?

[near ocean]

You'll be a student, I've had classmates work part time jobs in the industry as devs, not interns
Its not unheard of, its just harder to find

[vapid jay]

I see. I'll research more about what you mentioned once I get into Uni and the country and city where the Uni will be. Thanks for answering.

[near ocean]

Some dude was working part time as a quant at a hedge fund while we were doing our masters
It all depends on you, your grades and who you get to talk to at uni

[pastel thunder]

How do i get an opportunity to publish a research paper under professors of top schools??

I have tried cold email but no response.
I will agree email was a bit less engaging....

[peak halo]

what credentials do you have?

I published with one of my professors as an undergraduate because I was a student there, had niche domain experience outside of the degree program, and (most importantly in this context) contributed to a project that she was already interested to do.

[pastel thunder]

I have done internships in mitsubishi rnd, wriiten one research paper(not yet published), have 8.05 gpa(topper has 8.67)

And 3 other soft dev internships

[peak halo]

what country is this? in the US, 4.0 is the "maximum" GPA (though it's possible to get slightly above it)

[pastel thunder]

India
Its 10 point scale

A tier 1 university, i should mention

And 1 research internship

[peak halo]

let's see if someone else has experience with this. I've never heard of anyone attempting something like this.

[honest pivot]

I literally sat down and made an outline full of questions to ask employers. I could hold an hour-long reverse interview easily. This is what I suggest, just start from some topics, think of sub-topics and questions, you'll come up with things. At the end, decide what's actually most important, because you'll never have time to ask them all.

(Also it will definitely get easier to think of things you want to ask if you've already had a job, particularly if there's anything that has ever annoyed you or made you wonder)

[delicate bane]

me neither. i think most professors here would rather know you in person or at least know of your research first before agreeing to putting their name next to yours

[pastel thunder]

How do i convince them then

I dont have more than 5 or 6 months

I want to apply in ms

[dense mesa]

Is the research paper done or do you need to do one?

[pastel thunder]

i have done one(going to publish soon), want to do one more

[native narwhal]

so pretty much any path you choose will take 1-2 years or even 2+ to become really good at so why not choose what pays best? 😄
the problem here is that I don't know what will be in highest demand and what will pay most in 3 years...
If anyone knows tell me lol

[pastel thunder]

AR/VR seems to be future to me, but thats just my opinion

[native narwhal]

AR/VR has been the future for several years now 😄 even in 2016 there was a statement that tech companies will invest in any AR/VR startup 😄
so yeah if you look at it like that then everything is the FUTURE 😄

[dense mesa]

Picking a career based on the best pay available seems like a good way to get burnt out quickly

[native narwhal]

why isn't the coding demand bubble bursting

how come there are still more and more developers needed
every damn website and mobile app has already been made 😄

[delicate bane]

thats the equivalent of saying no more businesses should be created since we already have enough.

looks at startups and VCs

[dense mesa]

Pace of technology hasn't slowed down yet

[native narwhal]

ok maybe you are not into native iOS development but your reasoning sounds decent so I'd like you to weight in and tell me what you think about the future of jobs security in the native iOS development realm

also this is a python server so I might be out of topic here so I'm sorry for that

[dense mesa]

Question isn't specific to a location or seniority level so I'd have to speculate a lot to say that the job security probably isn't going to get worse, but who knows if it'll get better

[smoky quest]

That's not how careers work.
iphones did not exist 20 years ago. In 20 years, the landscape will look very different from today. Thus aim at skills that will persist over time rather than short term practical ones. In your case, it's more of a matter of mobile development vs ios development

[native narwhal]

you are so optimistic versus me being so pesimistic 😄
I used to be a chef for many years and I always knew that people need to eat and that people are bad at cooking so I felt safe but in tech I never feel safe idk why

[smoky quest]

People who don't keep up are the ones who end up having issues

[native narwhal]

so you are saying the root of my problem is trying to find an easy way for a problem that requires learning new things all the time and therefore I am headed a wrong way 😄

[dense mesa]

Well you just don't seem to believe anyone when they discuss this stuff

[smoky quest]

What I am saying is that, while you do want to be pragmatic about what's in today, you also want to build the foundations and to keep learning so that you remain relevant over the coming years

[native narwhal]

do C developers keep learning or they stay relevant with pretty much the same knowledge for 20 years

[smoky quest]

The same way people stay relevant about using drills and screw drivers.

Languages are just tools. While most evolve and change over time, that's not where the value is as an engineer. The value will be in building houses, cars, satellites...

[graceful mason]

Just because the language doesn't necessarily change doesn't mean the application for the language won't change
C is used mostly in embedded systems - we've gone from making basic OSs to developing fully autonomous robots basically entirely in C. They're both made with the exact same language (mostly), but they use entirely different concepts (both at a hardware and real-world level) that require a lot of learning

[smoky quest]

(to add onto that, OS-es and the libraries around will change too and provide different things)

Even GPGPU weren't a thing 20 years ago. New ways to interact with them and leverage them to a bunch of domains came up along the way

[smoky quest]

Also, not sure if you are touching on it implicitly, but it's normal for engineers to learn more than one language, and to even transition across different languages over the course of their careers.

[native narwhal]

The real reason why my head is a mess is because I am already good at something which is being a chef and now I try to find 1000 reasons to justify not going back to the kitchen 😄

transition across languages is one thing but in my case I transition to a whole diff industry

[graceful mason]

The same idea applies to iOS too - every time a new iOS version gets released apps are going to need updates to work, maybe the new version allows for additional features that they want to implement too. Some day iOS might slow down or get replaced, and you'll need to move to Android or whatever new system. Rather than considering yourself an iOS developer maybe you should consider yourself a mobile developer and learn as much as you can about mobile development

[smoky quest]

Make lists of pros/cons and worries.
Writing it down help realize how real they are. The benefits are that it will eliminate the unreasonable fears and leave you with real risks you can then work to address

[smoky quest]

Definitely! iOS devs who don't keep up will have a hard time

[honest pivot]

C has actually evolved a lot in the last 20 years. Every few years there is a new standard with new features.

[autumn nebula]

when can i ask something, or how to create new question?

[smoky frost]

I am looking for any python, or web development oppurtunity

Remote work how do i achieve it ?

[delicate bane]

its been done before. there was actually someone, adrienne, who talked about this on a podcast https://codingwithknives.com/about/

These days, I’m a speaker and professional software engineer with an interest in documentation systems and a deep love of people. And yes, I still cook!

Currently, I work at Juice Analytics as Director of Engineering. I’m also the Director of Advancement for the Django Software Foundation, the non-profit board backing Django. I am a tech editor of the 2nd edition of O’Reilly Media’s “Head First Python”. In a past life, I managed corporate sponsorship for Read the Docs‘ Write the Docs conferences, coordinated PyLadiesATL, and ran the “Your Django Story” interview series for the Django Girls blog.

she actually gets into the similarities between the two in some of her blogs

i highly recommend listening to the podcast

i think she said she had 10+ years experience in her previous industry before switching

[dense mesa]

Go to #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help

[undone grove]

guys i dont wanna do front-end development, is doing only back-end a viable option?

[dense mesa]

Look at the channel description and pinned messages, this discord isn't a job board

[undone grove]

with python for example, and is python a suitable language for learning dsa and algos

[dense mesa]

Is this in the context of careers?

[undone grove]

yeah

[smoky quest]

It's a great language for dsa. It's fairly high level, easy to read and has lots of utilities out of the box to manipulate data

[undone grove]

ive been kind of burned out by just doing javascript so i wanted to learn this in another language, so I wanna choose between python or c#

[dense mesa]

You can just do backend

[summer roost]

People like to talk about themselves. Giving them an opportunity to talk about themselves will endear you to them. Interesting questions to ask, in no particular order:

• Tell me about your work day.
• How much time do you spend in meetings?
• How long have you worked here?
• How much time do you spend working from home vs in the office?
• How many different teams have you worked on since joining this company?
• What's your favorite thing about this job?
• If you could change one thing about your job, what would it be?
• What's your favorite thing that you've worked on here?

[graceful mason]

Those are some pretty solid questions - recently I've tried asking Would you describe your work as mostly maintenance or innovation to get some nice insights into how varied they feel their work is. When asking about WFH I also tried to make the distinction between what their WFH policy is and how easy it is to do their work from home, since the rules and realities might be different there

[summer roost]

there's a lot of stuff that's neither maintenance nor innovation, but simply execution.

that is, not everything new is innovative

[graceful mason]

This was for a position that is pretty much entirely development - all work could be described by one of those.

[summer roost]

someone who makes a CRUD app from scratch is neither innovating nor maintaining.

[smoky quest]

I guess the underlying question is more about if you write new code or just fix bugs/maintain things

[summer roost]

right. You can write new code without "innovating", is my point. The gist of the question is fine, but I don't like its wording.

I'd maybe phrase it as "How much time do you spend building new features or projects, versus maintaining and bug fixing existing ones?", or something like that.

[graceful mason]

I agree with that, but this was for a role that doesn't develop applications like that. The way I phrased it was are they mostly tackling bugs or generic backlog tickets (maintenance), or are they developing new features/large pieces of work. It also happens to be in an industry where any new features are likely to be considered innovation

[summer roost]

that wording also suggests that maintenance can't be innovative. Sometimes you need to innovate in order to keep things working.

I've probably done more creative hacks in service of keeping something working than in service of building something new 😄

[brittle thorn]

One physics prof did lmao and I was a coauthor or a physics paper but yeah he was a friend

[pastel thunder]

I will then, i think have to brag a little(honest brag) in email then.....i have some good internship and research experience after all....all i want them for is their name on my paper. Its really their loss lmao, i can give them some good research

[brittle thorn]

The trick I think is to find a project that will make learning the new thing fun... its like cooking ...programming is a practical skill ...if you like doing it you wont burn out

[brittle thorn]

Yep I have transitioned across many langs

[outer dragon]

I'm 34 and I'm trying to get a coding job. I never finished a college degree and have been a truck driver for the last 7 years. Should I put my high school diploma on my resume since it's the highest level of education I've completed? It feels weird to put it on there since it was so long ago

[brittle thorn]

Did you attend uni at least and not finish? (Maybe put attended Uni for x units of credit)

[summer roost]

Yes, you should put your highest level of education. It would be even more conspicuous in its absence.

[outer dragon]

I did, but everything I've read about resumes said not to put that because it could raise questions as to why you weren't able to finish the degree

[summer roost]

Well - do you have an answer for that question?

It'll probably get asked, so you probably should have a plan about what you'll say when it does.

[quiet fiber]

Hi, if you're a full stack web developer who works with a Python backend framework, would you be open to doing an informational interview with me? I'm interested in talking with someone who does that to get a sense of the day to day, the challenges, and the opportunities!

[hollow folio]

heyyy if anyone here is a high school junior that would like to develop a cs project over summer (possibly an app) and has decent cs experience dm me :)

[torpid saddle]

most software dev jobs are the same in the end, no matter the framework or if you work frontend/backend / on the moon

if you want to know specifics, I can tell you a bit about working with flask/django as backends for svelte/react apps

[slim basin]

Hello I've been in IT for 5 years now and recently finished my Python PCEP & PCAP certs it seems like everything I'm finding as far as jobs want at least 3 years of "experience in relative field" or BCS. I'm a little confused on what I really need to be shooting for as far as jobs to apply for. (So far just been applying to whatever.) I only have some college in the study of Science.

[harsh dragon]

Perhaps you can show prospective employers your ability to work with others, coach others, and contribute selflessly. Try helping out on SO forums, and show employers your github history. Help with FLOSS projects and gain experience. Those count a lot too. You can only learn so much from books and exams. Real world exp counts twice as much

[trail maple]

I have a question and I hope I'm in the right area. I'm in Python intermediate and it's a short term class that's 40 hours total. Whenever we have homework (exercises from Think Python 2e), I end up drawing a blank. Even with the intro class I took last year. I can't come up with the answers but I understand what's going on most of the time whenever I read the answers that are given. After that I take it answers break it down to understand it a little better. I read the assigned chapters and it doesn't seem to explain what's going on for me. Has anyone one gone through something similar? How do I get this freezing up to stop whenever I have to do these assignments and in general? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[slow grail]

Does anyone know any CS internships/program for high school student in nyc that are still open for applicants?

[smoky quest]

Practice can help. Maybe go back to simpler exercises and try to redo them without help.
There are also websites to practice like codingame or leetcode (look for the easy ones).

But it comes down to understanding the problems, breaking them down in small chunks, and using what you know to solve them

[rain walrus]

Hi i am self taught programmer, i love coding whether it is blockchain ,machine learning etc. My field of study and work is machine learning, i do not want to reveal my true identity and want to be anonymous but it is hard to earn money doing that because we have to show everything to our employers. How can i get a job without revealing much of my personal identity ?

[smoky quest]

I would understand if you are trying to stay anonymous on discord.
But what's the point to stay anonymous to your employer?

[graceful mason]

you can't - how and why would someone want to hire you when they don't know how you are? how can they write a contract for someone they don't know? how are you meant to present data analysis in an engaging way without a video call?

you're giving a company a lot of hoops to jump through to work with you when there are 100 other people who don't

[smoky quest]

Also note that in the realm of machine learning and data science, it often means you get access to some pretty private/relevant data to the company. So being anonymous wouldn't be acceptable, on top of every other reasons

[shell fable]

Are you aware by accessing public sites like Facebook, YouTube and by even using Discord, you've already exposed yourself to the public.

It's not possible to remain "anonymous" but it's very possible to not be fully exposed onto the internet.

There isn't alot people can do with your information anyway unless it is financial.

[smoky quest]

also lmao, but nice timing. Not sure how, but we saw the message at the same time and replied at the same time

[ivory sluice]

@fathom stirrup you're in the wrong channel, since this is for discussing careers. try #python-discussion or #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[vapid jay]

python

no seriously

well i mean that was the only answer to your question given the info you gave us(python is used for many different career routes)

[dense mesa]

You need to be a lot more specific with what career you're looking for

[vapid jay]

well after learning the "core"(by following an online course/guide) you have to follow a route by trying bits of them suiting your interests

although that depends on how much time you have before you intend to get into the career business

[dense mesa]

https://roadmap.sh

[vapid jay]

well then all I can say is dont waste your time randomly learning stuff and pick a career path soon

cause 3~4 months is cut a bit short given that you have to start from scratch

[frigid isle]

Hello, just a question. How good must I be for contributing to the github of this Python Server ? I was thinking I can put it in my resume.

[dense mesa]

This is a question for #community-meta although I don't see the staff being happy about you contributing just for your resume

[frigid isle]

Ahh understood

[dense mesa]

Contribute good stuff first and then consider putting it on

[frigid isle]

Yeah I was actually thinking about that if it's allowed.

[copper anvil]

What is the most promising career choice

[dense mesa]

The one you like the most

[copper anvil]

What about Data Science?

[dense mesa]

Yeah it's pretty good

[copper anvil]

What according to you is one of the most promising careers

[dense mesa]

That really depends on what you enjoy doing

For me, I have settled on product management

[copper anvil]

I haven't started studying anything, I just know the basics of Python, Im thinking what to do next

[dense mesa]

You're getting paralysis by analysis, just keep learning and don't think about your career just yet

[copper anvil]

Damn, pro

[copper anvil]

What to learn, though, can you give me a link or something to something that's good?

@dense mesa

[brittle thorn]

What are your hobbies and interests?

Start there then use that to motivate yourself to program stuff

Or study stuff related to your interests

[copper anvil]

My only hobby is Python

So, can you suggest something to learn

[brittle thorn]

Start a Github project like I did lmao on any topic be original

[copper anvil]

Give me a list of stuff that have a chance to be used a lot in the future pls

Give me some AI tutorial thing, robots are taking over anyways

[brittle thorn]

Then you already have an idea I guess

[copper anvil]

Yes, ai, give me ai tutorial

[brittle thorn]

Look at youtube or hang out at Data Science and AI

[copper anvil]

The people in Data Science and AI are kind of dead

[dense mesa]

https://roadmap.sh and also look at https://kaggle.com

[copper anvil]

@brittle thorn Can I learn Numpy, SciPy, Pandas, MySQL and MatPlotlib from W3Schools?

[brittle thorn]

It doesnt always have to be immediately useful

[copper anvil]

Ok thanks

[brittle thorn]

W3 Schools not too great lmao

[copper anvil]

damn, why

[brittle thorn]

You maybe better off learning it yourself lmao do projects

[copper anvil]

Ahh yes, projects.

🤮

[brittle thorn]

YOLO for image recognition typical

I think its version 5 nao

Then you can also try various tookits for natural language processing

[slim basin]

Ok thank you will look into that 👍:)

[dense mesa]

If you don't want to do projects then it will take you a very long time to learn programming

[copper anvil]

no

[dense mesa]

Best of luck then 🤝

[pliant token]

Hi just to intrude into the conversation. Any suggested project for basic python prog?

I am a beginner.

[dense mesa]

Ask about the kindling projects in #python-discussion

Look at https://roadmap.sh and see which pathways interest you

[true remnant]

that looks nice! 😉

[dim pelican]

If I’m in a college course but haven’t got my degree yet can I put the projected degree on my resume for like LinkedIn or indeed?

[near ocean]

Yes

[dim pelican]

Perfect.

[near ocean]

That doesnt mean you make up the projected grade ofc, ask your tutor

[summer roost]

At least in the US, it's typical to include a current GPA and an anticipated graduation date on your resume in that case.

[dim pelican]

I will, but I can put associates on my indeed and stop getting auto filtered.

[smoky quest]

as long as you make it clear it's projected

[summer roost]

You have an associates degree and are working towards a bachelor's? Listing both the one you have and the one you're still working on makes sense.

[nocturne cairn]

if someone is self-taught in python with no prior development work experience. What can they expect when it comes to finding a development job?

[dense mesa]

Expect in what context? Salary, job role, company?

[nocturne cairn]

just getting a paying job. no salary expectations necessarily, just being able to actually meet whatever arbitrary qualification expectations employers tend to have.

[dense mesa]

It's probably gonna be harder to get your foot in the door, but once you do the process should be the same

[nocturne cairn]

Is there anything one could do to make themselves more appealing?

[summer roost]

What other experience do you have?

And what level of education?

[nocturne cairn]

it's actually for my wife. She is changing careers and self-teaching herself python. She has a bachelors and masters in education as her formal education

I am a hobbyist developer myself so I've been helping her with grasping concepts and whatnot, but she sees some of these job postings and thinks she won't be able to land anything because everything wants like 3yrs experience which she isn't going to have anytime soon

[dim pelican]

I have no degree working towards a associate. Only signed up because I met getting rejected without my resume even being looked at. Degrees shouldn’t be required for a job paying 14-15 an hour imo.

[near ocean]

Sounds like she's looking at the wrong job postings
3+ years of experience postings are usually targeted at mid level devs and she's obviously not one of them, try using "junior" or "entry level" in the searches

[nocturne cairn]

What can she expect as common hurdles for someone like her with no formal training? Is there anything she should do to make herself more marketable?

[smoky quest]

It's like a cost function. The closer she is to the target role, the more costly. The closer she is, the cheaper it becomes.

What is her target role?
With such background in education, she could do great in terms of technical writer, developer relationship, preparing/writing/teaching to other developers (companies have entire departments dedicated to that)

[nocturne cairn]

She wants to actually be writing code. She likes the problem solving and attention to detail that coding requires. She's not fond of teaching adults, so anything in T&D wouldn't be up her alley.

[smoky quest]

That's fair. Then it becomes about how she can compete with other new grads and stand out, with or without her background.
That typically means:

• Nice and clear resume
• Projects to demonstrate skills
• Projects available on github/gitlab for further showcase and discussions

[nocturne cairn]

how much does demonstrated work compensate for a lack of CS degree?

[dense mesa]

Like projects?

[smoky quest]

Professional experience is the most valuable.
After that, personal projects can help.

Note there isn't a fixed rule. It comes down to making the prospective employer feel safe.
From the employer's perspective, it's a lot more costly to hire someone who may not work out than to just pass on someone potentially great. So they won't hesitate to pass at any doubt.

[nocturne cairn]

that's a good perspective. thanks! I do HR Recruiting as my profession so I understand the cost analysis aspect. I just don't work for a tech firm, so don't know what the norms are in that industry.

[nocturne cairn]

yes. or really anything from a portfolio of work.

[smoky quest]

It's not much different from trying to hire someone to redo your kitchen. You want someone who has done it before and won't create trouble and that can be trusted

[smoky quest]

She can look at https://roadmap.sh/ for a list of skills for different jobs.
She may also look at job ads to see the skills they list on them

[summer roost]

Switching careers is never really easy. It's a easier with programming than with many other industries since there's so much that can be self taught, but it's still not easy. A boot camp might be helpful in demonstrating sustained interest and developing entry level skills. An associates degree in CS would be useful if she can afford the time and money

[nocturne cairn]

That is encouraging. She is taking some courses on Udemy that an infosec friend of mine recommended. He seems confident he can get her a job once she gets a grasp of the language, but she's just not sure and is skeptical of putting so much trust into one person. Based on what everyone here has said though if she can build her GitHub portfolio with projects that demonstrate her proficiency with the language, that should be enough to demonstrate her skills and give prospective employers the confidence that they can trust her as a dev.

Thank you all for your time and help.

[vapid jay]

Some friends told me there was no way I would get a Python web dev job with no degree or work experience and I should learn C# instead to better my odds

Any truth to this

[smoky quest]

Why not going for a degree?

Regardless of the language, you are gonna have some pain without a degree

[vapid jay]

Because I don’t have a degree lol

[dense mesa]

Web development is arguably the most straightforward one to get without a degree, you'll just be making it harder for yourself by doing C#

Are your friends working as programmers?

[vapid jay]

Yes but they use C# 👀

Why would I be making it harder for myself by doing C#? Just by learning two languages you mean?

This ist funny how its hyped

[dense mesa]

That's some pretty ungrounded information that they're giving you

[vapid jay]

Its a Job in high demand Like any other

[dense mesa]

Web development is very high level and has a low barrier to entry. Projects are easy to start and accessories to finish, and a lot more people do web dev without degrees than C# (speaking very generally as to the discussions here)

[vapid jay]

Just sit with your ass and accumulate Screen time and experience,

[dense mesa]

Not having a degree will make parts of the application process tricky, but you'd be way better positioned to do web development than C#

[dense mesa]

Not very constructive advice to give in this context

[vapid jay]

Way better positioned to do web dev with python than C#?

Isnt back end or Data Analyst a easier entry possibility?

[dense mesa]

Web development with python lets you take on smaller clients/projects, even doing it freelance if you can find people

[vapid jay]

Its about an junior Position, and the demand ist high, right?

[dense mesa]

With C#, you're looking at more corporate/enterprise level companies, which will definitely care more about no degree

[vapid jay]

And know some JS, CSS, and HTML for front end stuff?

[dense mesa]

Just to make sure I understand what your friends said, their reasoning is:

[weak kindle]

Hi

[vapid jay]

Any advice where to learn in a group or Community together ?

[dense mesa]

You want a software related job, and have no degree
You are considering webdev with python/other languages vs C#

Their conclusion is that, with NO DEGREE, you should be doing C# instead of python to find work?

Because unless I'm misunderstanding something, that advice is completely backwards (for the UK at least). Maybe there's a cultural difference where you are?

[dense mesa]

This channel is for career discussion, try #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

Payments and Requirements are extremly different in each region

Their logic is that python jobs are more flooded with applicants so I’ll have a better shot at being selected, and C# is used by the big companies “enterprise” as they called it

[smoky quest]

why not getting one?

[vapid jay]

It seems like it would take too long and be too expensive

[smoky quest]

Large big companies may be more strict about the degrees and qualifications

[dense mesa]

And the big companies are the ones who are gonna be stricter on entry requirements

[dense mesa]

@vapid jay as I mentioned here

[smoky quest]

Having a degree is the easiest route comparing to not-having-a-degree.
So I would strongly recommend to investigate getting one.

CS degrees are also ones that are quite valuable and thus worth the investment and where you would get your money back and more

[dense mesa]

A lot of companies will ask for a degree or relevant experience, regardless of location

[vapid jay]

Python has most positions Open and easiest language , a good Pick...

[vapid jay]

True, but degree from other fields are also a opener

[dense mesa]

Yes, I study traditional engineering and should have gone for computer science when I had the chance

Chose engineering so I could go to a more reputable university, it made getting the first software role harder

[vapid jay]

I Got 5 year Low IT working exp and a Master in Banking and Finance

Was enough for a Senior Position between Dev and Front office