career-advice

[primal mesa]

umm if possible can u suggest anyone here who has experience
actually i am also -18 and i wanna know what all i can do in the future

[near ocean]

you should just ask your questions here and people will respond

[steel plinth]

I want to earn

I know python django rest api automation

[fading geode]

can anyone suggest some python projects using some apis

[south matrix]

Hi,

As part of a project, I need to interview a data scientist to ask him some questions, after a lot of research,
I unfortunately couldn't interview one, so if someone has some time to answer my questions it would be great !

[dense mesa]

Ask your questions here as others have said

[pastel thunder]

i am still exploring, i have mainly looked as US but europe and canada are next on my exploring list

[delicate bane]

thats good - i hear there are many opportunities there

[tacit ocean]

hello i want to be a software developer, im in high school now and i need to know if i do maths lit and no physics can i still pick it in universty and continue from there

[gilded valley]

what country are you in?

[tacit ocean]

south africa

[gilded valley]

This sounds like the kind of thing that's going to be quite country dependant. Over here in the UK, universities tend to prefer STEM subjects to non-STEM subjects, but as long as you have at least maths, you'd be able to attend plenty of good CS courses
your best bet is to look at whatever local universities ask for

[vapid jay]

how much experience does an entry level FAANG SWE usually have

[dense mesa]

Internships and/or spring weeks

[hearty fulcrum]

Hello! Will I be able to get a career in the field if I don't have a college education? Like if I did coding bootcamps and courses and truly understood the topic?

[peak halo]

depends on what other experiences you have and what kind of programming job you are trying to get, but for young people with no professional experience, a college education is going to open more doors than a bootcamp or self-study.

[delicate bane]

have you also looked into tech apprenticeships? there are a ton that are opening up lately + remote

i would post a link but thats technically considered recruiting so take a look online

[dense mesa]

You can probably just post the link

[delicate bane]

ill post a screenshot so you can see the opportunities. its kinda hard with the link

looks like theyre all remote opportunities too so thats nice

anyway i guess the takeaway here is to look up more opportunities like these ones since im sure they are not the only ones

[smoky quest]

FAANG hire all types of roles and experience. From entry level to very senior.

[smoky quest]

That's actually great to hear more about it!
I wish there was a more standard term for people to look at or an easier way to aggregate them like the awesome-* lists.
(we do have something like that at my $JOB and am helping with the interviews, but don't really want to doxx myself or my employer, which prevents me from referring people to that)

[hearty fulcrum]

thanks!!

[delicate bane]

understandable. and yeah i also wish this was the case lol

[lean sparrow]

Hi all i wanted to ask a weird question not really related to this server's purpose, but is the word "Wobble" a bad word or what does it mean. i accidently read it on dictionary and i dont get it

[vapid jay]

Is getting an IT position good for my resume if I want to become a software engineer/dev?

[grand flower]

E

[vapid jay]

?

[smoky quest]

it's a factor of how much it relates to a software engineer/dev role

[vapid jay]

It involves using operating systems and Linux

[smoky quest]

that would be closer to sysadmin than a software engineer/dev role.

The implication here is why then not going directly for a software engineer/dev role?

[vapid jay]

I applied for some but haven't heard back from them yet

I applied to internships for that and didn't get an offer so I'm working in an IT position to help with changing from EE to CE and make some money for the summer

[smoky quest]

You may want to get your resume reviewed. Feel free to post an anonymized version here.
if you have a cs profile, you ought to get some replies

[thick juniper]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[gilded flame]

Can you teach me this technology....Thanks

[dim pelican]

So a lot of Jobs are requiring a degree. Does it matter where the degree comes from?

Or what it even is.

[buoyant seal]

As long as it is STEM, it matters little I think
Having dedicated CS only degree can make life easier though...
.. Except for DS stuff, then better going math dedicated direction in theory. Or some hybrid between math and CS

[dim pelican]

I’m really just trying to fill in gaps at this point. Was thinking of just getting a one foster or ash worth degrees just to say I have one.

[delicate bane]

have you taken a look at tech apprenticeships? they are usually less strict about degrees. more on portfolios. #career-advice message

[dawn nymph]

Hey i've been playing around with comp. Sci. since I was 14 messing around with Lua (I'm still not that good but I can make half-working games lmao)

I've gotten a certificate in Python from a trade school I attended and I went online and got some free certificates that probably mean absolutely nothing. (AI Fundamentals and understanding, Python, etc.)

I do plan to attend college though, I want to go to full sail university for app development and such and I believe they offer associate degrees for 2 year accelerated learning.

I plan to go there after I complete my 4 year contract with the military, which also going to one of my commands I met someone who works at Facebook while on a flight and they gave me some pointers for interviews for facebook, he basically said that they accept full sail though i'm not sure how widely full sail is accepted.

Does what I currently have give some value and if so, what type of job could I get with it?
In short I have military experience, a professional certificate given by a trade school, some certified yet free certificates I got online, and possibly a future associates degree from Full Sail University.

Oh yeah, i've also made some apps for fun and posted them to the google play store, when I was in high school I also worked with high school classmates as a team and participated in a hackathon that was being held in my city where we pretty much raced against other teams to create a healthcare program for a prize of $10k. We didn't win. lol.

[dim pelican]

I’ll have to look more into that. I’ve been looking for low pay or even no pay part time jobs but getting paid 40 to learn remotely is amazing! That’s more than I make currently with 7 years experience lol.

[summer roost]

A degree in CS is best. Failing that, a degree in some other field can also be helpful, as long as you've got some coding skills.

Least good is just coding skills with no degree. But it's a spectrum.

[smoky quest]

No idea what's full sail other than a specific university?
From an industry perspective, what matters is if they deliver a BSc or not.

[summer roost]

I'm also not familiar with "full sail", but an associates CS degree is less valuable than a BS or BA in CS, but much more valuable than no degree. The military experience counts for something as well... Roughly as much as a degree in a non-STEM field, if I had to put a number on it

[dawn nymph]

Yes I am aware it's less valuable

[vapid jay]

hi, when job positions ask for linux experience, what they do really care about? I’ve been a windows user my entire life. I’ve done a bit of batch scripting so i could probably do the analog in linux shell scripting. I briefly used a Ubuntu VM but I’m not sure what kind of experience I should be building..

[summer roost]

Certificates matter almost not at all, at least in the US. An associates degree is worth maybe 60% of what a BS is worth, give or take.

[dim pelican]

I’m working on the more advance stuff currently. As well as making projects. Rn I’m making a GUI for git to showcase coding, UI development and Git understanding.

[summer roost]

They're mostly looking for experience navigating the CLI, moving or creating files from the CLI, writing simple shell pipelines, and such.

[dim pelican]

Would pursuing an associates look better on a resume compared to no degree?

[vapid jay]

thank you

[summer roost]

Probably not much more than you could learn from a "Linux basics" article or two

Familiarity with any CLI is helpful, even if it's cmd and not bash.

[vapid jay]

so then i dont need to take a udemy course or w/e. just looking up some quick tuts to get familiar with the CLI commands

and building a couple of scripts

[smoky quest]

better than nothing. But if you could push it towards a Bsc, it would make a large impact

[dim pelican]

To add on to what godly said, I’ve been using vultr cheapest package to practice working with Linux while at work or something from my phone. It’s like 3.50 a month. I also host my discord bots on it. Just an idea.

[summer roost]

Yeah. If you can get a udemy course free or cheap there might be a valuable one, but it's certainly nothing you couldn't teach yourself.

[dim pelican]

I could. ash worth says they allow up to 8 years to complete. Once I switch careers I can dedicate more time to learning (can barely live working these 12s lol)

[smoky quest]

There is a bit more to it.
There is the whole OS management side to it, process management, etc.

I would recommend to install GNU/Linux in a dual boot and use that for a few weeks

[smoky quest]

yeah that's fair

[summer roost]

I learned bash scripting from https://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ - granted I learned it a long time ago, and I don't know if that's still the best reference, but it may be useful to you

[dawn nymph]

Honestly i'm thinking about just gettig my CS and working for meta at facebook 😂

[summer roost]

There's plenty of other companies out there 🙂

[dawn nymph]

Facebook tho, i've had an interest in VR development and I started making a game but I had to factory reset my Oculus/Meta Quest

[dim pelican]

Its only 1200. As long as school name doesnt matter its a win win for me

[smoky quest]

school names don't matter 😉

[dim pelican]

Sweet. Affirm shall become my best friend soon.

[dawn nymph]

Tell that to Harvard 😏
You're right off topic 😦

[summer roost]

But accreditation does.

[smoky quest]

I have had no problem rejecting people from stanford/berkeley/georgiatech/mit for no name schools.
Also harvard is not known for their cs department

[dawn nymph]

How easy would it be to get into MIT?

[summer roost]

MIT is better than, I dunno, SUNY or something like that, but it's not a remarkable amount better. Maybe 1.5x better? Maybe 2x? But the programs at no name schools are essentially the same as the programs at big name schools. Big name schools bring better teachers and better resources, but plenty of people still manage to graduate from them learning less than someone could learn at a small no-name school

[silent wolf]

I never had this ivy league lust

I didn't even finish my state college

maybe I'm not the best to have a proper outlook on it, but at my university it was just mostly standard Java classes

[plucky karma]

Most universities are going to use mostly Java. It’s still used across most enterprises as the primary infrastructure, and its syntax is still C style

[peak halo]

also worth noting that the reputation of big name schools may be based more on the reputation of their research faculty than the quality of their undergraduate education.

[vapid jay]

who can add to my bot that every message gets logged, can pay

[buoyant seal]

Moving in CLI
Writing/changing file in CLI notepads
Installing at least with tutorial stuff like Postgres/nginx/haproxy/cron (it would be really cool if u could install logging/monitoring stuff also)
It would be cool if u learn how to write/change their configs
Making basic diagnostics of ended HDD/SSD, RAM, CPU, network problems and configurations
Writing simple Bash/makefile/python scripts
Running stuff as daemons in background. As systemd or supervisorctl process
Chaining Linux commands with > >> | & && stuff. Knowing echo, grep, cat, whatever else there
As a plus
How to backup stuff (of database for example), how to restore, basic SQL commands

Shortly speaking navigating in Linux CLI to do basic actions or at least to Google complex ones and solve them. The long answer is above.

The list is continued further, with depending on the programming langs of the team, preferably to be able installing their apps, and tuning their performance for prod

The list is continued to Infrastructure as a code approaches
To learn stuff like Ansible, Docker
Getting to know how operate AWS, preferably with terraform and etc
Learning CI stuff, container orchestration

The paths continue a bit differently depending on to which Pokémon u wish to evolve.
Backend Dev, SRE, DevOps engineer, whatever...

[delicate bane]

ah yes, i will choose charmander aka backend. thank you very much

[brittle thorn]

Recruiter throw pokeball at chu....lmao

Imma drink coffee this late of course

[obtuse talon]

whats the best place to get certificate for programming languages ?

[tepid herald]

um,

code

free code camp

[tepid herald]

check here: https://www.freecodecamp.org/

[obtuse talon]

Thanks

i tried it and gained trust into it

tysm

[near ocean]

Certificates dont amount to much unless theyre by a corp that created the tech, eg google cert for gcp, amazon for aws, microsoft for azure, etc

[floral swallow]

hi

[dense mesa]

Against the rules

[lime tartan]

Hey y'all I'm trying to transition into the field of software engineering. Ive been learning python through P4E and I'm loving it and I try to solve some of problems in our help channels to simply develop those problem solving skills. Any other recommendations to make me an appealing candidate for a future job in software engineering? Btw I possess a bachelor's in biology (chem minor).

I have a few years of work experience in my field (biological manufacturing and analytical chemistry)

[daring lava]

what is more benefitcial app development or website development?

[peak halo]

I have no idea what that job entails and have never changed careers, but the advice that is generally given to career changers in this channel is to look for opportunities to code in your current job, and look for programming jobs that relate to your current field.

[peak halo]

why do you ask? I believe the two are quite similar.

[daring lava]

i am new to programing recently learned programing so i am not sure which side i should lean too so yeh

[lime tartan]

i think the most my field does with programming is using R for statistical analysis of our study results but other than that im not sure, thanks for the tip. I guess its less plausible to do a complete switch than of a slow transition, would ya say?

[lime tartan]

ask what you're really implying. ~Beneficial~ is a broad term, specify it

[daring lava]

money wise

or demand wise

[lime tartan]

"Will I get paid a lot for this particular development field and will I have a job in it in 10 years?"
is this what you're asking?

[daring lava]

well yeh if i become a good developer yeh

[lime tartan]

first you should ask yourself is "What is the bare minimum i can make to be able to pay off current and unexpected expenses and also save some?" then use that as a baseline to determine what amount is minimum to comfortable to satisfying

place yourself in the comfortable range then look at the job market for either technology

see what theyre paying at entry level positions and what theyre paying at senior level

[daring lava]

well for now like for me to be comfortable that would be 1000$ per month

[lime tartan]

wow

[summer roost]

Ugh

[daring lava]

is that too high? xD

[summer roost]

Pay is better for app development. Demand is higher for web development.

[lime tartan]

depends on locality, in the US, that's practically nothing

[daring lava]

ahh well according to my country stuff that much is enough for a 19 years old to be comfortable
but well yeh if ya plan to grow then yeh

[summer roost]

In the US, that's not enough to rent a 1 bedroom apartment in most cities

[lime tartan]

that was less than my rent in baltimore

[daring lava]

here thats enough to rent a house depends on the loaction but yeh xD

[daring lava]

that would be if u dont account other expenses

[summer roost]

Which leads to another point: which career is easier to get, and which has higher compensation, might depend on your location

[lime tartan]

its safest to go into a field with the most jobs

[summer roost]

Perhaps, but that also tends to have the lowest wages

[daring lava]

yeh

[lime tartan]

but promotion potential is exponential which would surpass wage growth in a field with less jobs

[summer roost]

I know very good web developers who have topped out around $150k, and younger, mediocre backend developers who make over $250k

[daring lava]

damn

[lime tartan]

fair point

[daring lava]

how much does it cost to get 1 website there in US

a good one

[lime tartan]

two goats and a chicken lol

[daring lava]

not sure what that means

[daring lava]

like average it would be around 15k? for a decent one and for the best i guess up to 50k?

[azure mountain]

Hi all, I run an analytics department including data science teams. I've interviewed and hired many people. If anyone wants advice or perspective from me let me know.

[lime tartan]

@azure mountain

[daring lava]

do u use alot of calculas in data science?

[lime tartan]

data analytics would be my field than of software engineering imo

[daring lava]

i have heard that u use tough maths

[azure mountain]

I'll tell you the main thing I look for in hiring, beyond technical ability is how well people communicate. All that technical expertise goes to waste if you can't articulate what you are doing and how it can be beneficial for your team or your clients

[daring lava]

i guess in most jobs communication is key

[azure mountain]

Yes and no. Can you take the main ideas/concepts and demonstrate you know when it is appropriate to apply them based on context of the problem you are trying to solve.

[lime tartan]

yeah that's really no challenge for me. the true challenge is certainly the technicals and convincing a future employer that it really doesn't matter what role i have, i can learn it, im a jack of all traits so to speak

[daring lava]

how do u expect a person to communicate when u are hiring them
like any advice?

[vapid jay]

how do learn to code

[lime tartan]

clear and effective communications can be an art form in itself. Like earlier when you used "beneficial" broadly speaking, in an interview, the interviewer would need more info to understand what you're asking.

[daring lava]

youtube is probably the best source

[vapid jay]

what about the free coding cam

[lime tartan]

saving time is a must in a job and having a long winded conversation about something simple is quite aggravating

[daring lava]

so like you are suppose to be more specific about what u say and be confident and good with explain what u did or doing

[lime tartan]

simply put, yes

[daring lava]

yeh they are great
well for python i personally prefer "tech with tim"

he explains in a very good way

[vapid jay]

ok so how do i learn a a beginner th

[daring lava]

first select a language you can start with any language

python java c++ there are many

you just search for beginner tutorials on youtube for the language
In start you learn the synatax of the language
after that in the intermediate level you learn object oriented programing

thats how u start

best thing to do is master 1 language

you dont have to learn multiples
the concept remains the same the only thing that changes if u learn other languages is the syntax

[azure mountain]

Its about making sure you explain your past experiences well. Don't leave things that you have done unclear. Be sure to understand why you were doing things and how it helped the big picture

[delicate bane]

my undergrad was biochem + sociology

have you taken a look at tech apprenticeships? theres a lot more than the ones here too #career-advice message

[granite crystal]

@vapid jay I have learned a huge amount in about a month to the point where i can make some functional programs without help (blackjack) I recommend Udemy, there are some great classes, I'm doing Pierrians Python and i should be able to worm my way into a job with this

[lime tartan]

i applied to twilio

[delicate bane]

haha just now? or you did it beforehand

[lime tartan]

just now @delicate bane

[delicate bane]

[vapid jay]

The demand seems big, the requirements are lowered but payment aint the best for Juniors, agreed?

[summer roost]

pay for junior developers is still better than pay for juniors in most other fields

[granite crystal]

hey guys, I have been doing python for 3 months and i've made a functional blackjack. I know all the data types, loops, and I can run code in my head by reading it (as long as i know what the .functions do)

CAN I GET A JOB YET?

[native narwhal]

no

I mean have you seen jobs for building blackjack? NO.
Look at python jobs on upwork or indeed or glassdoor and see what companies are looking for
@granite crystal

[granite crystal]

gotcha thanks

[dense mesa]

I don't think that's a fair evaluation of it, if @granite crystal is at school/uni they can still try getting a foot in the door with a spring week/work experience/internship

Some places will take people who have only done one project and have the experience listed, since they can train them in their own style

[native narwhal]

find me a job post that has less than 100 applicants for generic entry level train them in their own style position

[dense mesa]

That's a really negative way of looking at it

[native narwhal]

no its a realistic way of looking at it, I deal in reality not in wannabelieve

[granite crystal]

im gonna take the average of both your answers 😄

[native narwhal]

lol

[dense mesa]

Are you working as a python developer or software engineer currently?

[dense mesa]

It won't guarantee you a position but it's a solid start, if you keep learning through projects and practicing interview questions, it's completely achievable

[granite crystal]

I have very strong communication skills I think i'll just spend 10 minutes a day appyling and keep practicing. It sounds possible but unlikely. I'm okay with that

[native narwhal]

bruh be real for a moment
If you wanna get intern position with as little as possible YOU WILL COMPETE WITH 120 people
If you wanna spend a little more time building your own projects you will COMPETE WITH only 20 people

[dense mesa]

Go on LinkedIn and filter jobs by Easy Apply only, fire off like 10 applications a weekday

[granite crystal]

Yeah and either way i'm still coding the optimist and the pessimist = good info

[native narwhal]

If you think competing with 70 applicants is good, go ahead apply with your blackjack portfolio 😄

[dense mesa]

I'm just not understanding why you're being so dismissive of their work when you yourself recently said you're also a beginner

[native narwhal]

im realist not optimist or pessimist

[granite crystal]

If you look at your language you are indeed a pessimist

[dense mesa]

If you're not working as a developer or software engineer, it's quite harmful to someone's motivation to speak about their work like this

[native narwhal]

cuz I did 2 interviews last week

[dense mesa]

@granite crystal if you want an average, realistic point of view (I'm in the UK so biased towards this)

A blackjack project itself won't get you very far with most big companies. It's plenty to join a smaller company at entry level, but you won't be earning as much, which is the trade-off

There are small companies in the UK which will hire engineering/maths/chemistry/etc students straight out of uni with 0 programming experience

So having one project will still put you in good stead for applying

Obviously I don't know which country you're in, but if you're fine with not going for "prestigious" roles at big corporates, that one project is enough to start firing off Easy Apply applications on LinkedIn

[native narwhal]

Listen you are telling me about entry level jobs or internships that go trough 200 candidates and you want me to believe that your advice to go into that is credible?
MY advice is to prepare for higher requirement jobs that has LESS CANDIDATES
why the hell are you calling me a pessimist are you that ignorant or you don't understand this words that I write?

[dense mesa]

My claim to my advice being credible is because I am currently employed as a Python developer

And I got that position with just a few basic projects on my GitHub

[native narwhal]

I'm done here good luck python developer 😄

[dense mesa]

You don't have to believe or agree with what I'm saying, but acting like this towards someone trying to do something positive just isn't good

[ivory sluice]

hello

@granite crystalto answer your original question, that depends on a lot of things, and no one here will be able to give you a definitive 100% answer or prediction. and even if we could, there are always exceptions. if you are in school (high school? undergrad?) your job prospects could be different than if you were say, unemployed, or a professional in a different field.

i didn't see you mention what your educational and professional experience was

[ivory sluice]

i find your tone a bit.. condescending here. irrespective of being pessimist, optimist, or realist, i'd rather you engage with respect and sincerity. saying things like "bruh be real [...]" and belittling users' intelligence is not something we'll tolerate here

edit: i guess calling someone ignorant is not the same thing as calling them unintelligent, but i hope you get my gist

[native narwhal]

Sure.
Btw do you think its better to apply to an entry level job/internship that already received 200 applications
OR
do you think its better to work on a better portfolio and apply to a job with higher requirements and less than 20 applicants

PRO TIP: you can only chose one, cuz I don't need dissection and/or a type of answer that includes variations of not everyone chooses the same path...etc
and I am also not looking into discussing this any further and with that, if you don't want to feel free not to answer me. but if you want to please do I really wanna know which do you think is better just like an opinion

[ivory sluice]

there is always value and something to gain from applying to a job and potentially going thru an interview experience

how do you even propose knowing exactly how many applications were submitted for a position anyway?

[native narwhal]

Cuz I have done 2 interviews this week and they told me

[ivory sluice]

ah, well, you had to apply to get those interviews right?

[native narwhal]

sure and from that experience I now advice people not to waste time and prepare for a better role with less applicants

[ivory sluice]

all things being equal, if you know ahead of time what job has less competition, then sure why not apply for the one with less competition, if the argument is that you have higher chances of getting hired. but even better, why not apply to both, and keep your options open?

[ivory sluice]

what mechanism do you propose to do that without actually writing job applications?

[native narwhal]

cuz jobs with less applicants need you to do more than blackjack from youtube vid

[ivory sluice]

advising people against applying to jobs because there's likely a high amount of competition for the role is poor advice

[native narwhal]

but if you advise them to apply to jobs/internships with loads of applicants is wasting their time which by my definition is also bad advice

[ivory sluice]

also, i'm not discounting the value of continued learning and building a portfolio

you can and should do that regardless

[ivory sluice]

it's not a waste of time. thru that process i can learn how well i stack against other candidates

i'll go thru interviews, get feedback, regroup by researching what gaps there are in my resume in experience, build on my knowledge, and reiterate the job hunting process

[native narwhal]

Idk about that word... regardless but fine, I understand your point of view and I don't accept it. It seems we have reached an impasse 😄

[ivory sluice]

the fact that this user can code blackjack is not too relevant to be honest. i'm much more interested in other things: what jobs have they had before, what level of education have they had, etc. my expectations for their coding knowledge and the projects on their github profile will vary widely depending on that

[dense mesa]

There are a good few grad schemes in the UK aimed at STEM students with no programming experience, since they already have the technical problem solving ability and just need to be upskilled on how to program

[brittle thorn]

True yep sometimes you get lucky but some do get job hunting burnout....it depend on your level of frustration tolerance

[ivory sluice]

and for people like me that haven't pivoted yet it depends on my risk tolerance 🙃

[plucky talon]

I had no portfolio, nor do I have any work experience just web scraping skills I learnt from YouTube. Now I work as test automation engineer at two different companies. Apply for jobs, record your interviews, learn from each Interview Improve on your skills

[ivory sluice]

if you're open & willing to share, your experience might benefit others. country/region, what your first job was, what roadblocks you faced, etc.

[brittle thorn]

Good luck

If you are pivoting it gud if you have persistence

People will pigeonhole you

[brittle thorn]

I think regardless of stage in career this is sound

[spare bone]

What's you guy's opinion on finishing school? Is it necessary ?

[plucky talon]

I'm in the United States, I started my career as a software tester as there isn't much technical skill required. I learnt sql on the job, I figured automation testers/engineer are in demand so I desided to learn python and selenium. The only practice project I enjoyed doing were web scraping and creating social media bots. My manager refused to make me an automation tester even after I created a demo project for him. I decided to start applying for jobs.
I faced lots of challenges while applying, I needed to learn about github, Jenkins, various development and testing tools. I updated my resume each time I learnt something new. Not smart to put something you don't know on a resume

[ivory sluice]

so you were in QA, doing manual testing?

[plucky talon]

Yes

[summer roost]

Necessary, no. The single best thing you can do for your career prospects, yes.

If you can afford the time and money to get a degree, getting that degree is the single best thing you can do to get a career as a developer

[ivory sluice]

that's awesome, thanks for sharing 😄

[grim summit]

Hey has anyone used turing.com?

[spare bone]

Well, I'm in my first year of college but through connections I was able to secure a full time job at a fintech. And I was wondering if it's even possible to make it far with just a couple years of experience in a popular company (without school that is) . My goal is to reach a senior position (lifetime goal)

[stray jacinth]

Hell yes, you can!

[dense mesa]

Really wouldn't recommend dropping out unless they're paying $200k+ per year or something

Otherwise you're getting short term benefit while losing expected value in the long run

[stray jacinth]

I'd definitely consider whether you want to complete the schooling. Don't let the opportunity make you feel pressured to say yes. If you can secure a Fintech position at a company you like without a degree, you most likely can do it again (or even better).

[dense mesa]

It's a big leap of faith, could work well or yeah

[brittle thorn]

Maybe if it is a hot startup with you as co founder lmao but that is risky

Instant senior position

[dense mesa]

Lot of risk there

[summer roost]

There are companies that won't hire people without a degree regardless of experience, and it's much harder to go back and get a degree in the future if you drop out. You will forever be limiting the pool of jobs you can get if you don't have a degree. On average, people without degrees earn less and have more trouble switching jobs.

[brittle thorn]

Lots of reward too

[dense mesa]

Potentially, but it introduces career instability for no good reason, and as @summer roost mentioned it would be harder to move somewhere else

[grim summit]

Oh damn thats crazy i really thought experience is a huge part

im trying to speedrun my goddamn degree but the uni im in isnt letting my bypass the basic stuff and its frustrating

[summer roost]

sure, but experience plus degree is more valuable than just experience, and the degree makes your skills easier to transfer between jobs - and switching to new jobs is the best way to get a raise.

[brittle thorn]

Depends on your situation ....but yeah... It does work sometimes but you dont see failed startups hyped up.

[grim summit]

Also im looking for part time remote python development jobs but I can barely find any. Any guidance? Everything is just Web Dev, Django :/

[dense mesa]

Part time is gonna be hard to find, part time remote even more so. Why not freelance?

[grim summit]

I Tried to freelance but the market is so huge and near impossible to compete. I only landed a freelance job to teach some university students PyOpenGL for 10 hours. But thats essentially it

[brittle thorn]

Freelance is hard unless you have a niche

[grim summit]

I figured but im more of a back-end person. I work with networking databases and all dat fun stuff

[brittle thorn]

The corps might hesistate to have critical code freelanced out so mostly its web and front end ....

[grim summit]

man...

[brittle thorn]

Do web if you want to freelance a bit but yeah its not for all... small firms might freelance out backend too

[grim summit]

tough times

[brittle thorn]

Do projects while idle

[grim summit]

thats what my income is sitting on x)

[brittle thorn]

What part of the globe are you in ?

[grim summit]

currently algeria but i live in spain might move to london

[brittle thorn]

Ah cost of living will be a factor if you freelance

[grim summit]

yea its cheap as hell in algeria

[brittle thorn]

London expensive lmao stay in algeria if you dun hab full time job offer

[grim summit]

nah i got enough money to live in london for like 2 years im just bored

[brittle thorn]

Noice....

Maybe move there ...then network

[grim summit]

yea that might be the move. Im also debating weather to Intern or not at some companies

[brittle thorn]

Depends if the company is aligned with your interests

[brittle thorn]

Well the basics are there and you hab to be exceptional to get exemptions ...I did a library automation project at uni and got the uni VP write a letter to a programming instructor to exempt me...the instuctor was hard headed lmao and rejected ... Do a project

[grim summit]

thats crazy man its so frustrating

[brittle thorn]

It was lmao

[grim summit]

my friend is ahead of me in modules and he said its week3 and they are learning if statements

[brittle thorn]

Its boring if you know it

[brittle thorn]

Lmao so bore

[grim summit]

not even its the utter basics if they just want the money tell me i dont care just dont waste my time!

[brittle thorn]

I usually read textbook ahead in class lmao then sometimes correct the instructor

[grim summit]

since im not in london everything for me is online so im just watching lectures

[brittle thorn]

Ah Open Uni? Or Oxbridge

[grim summit]

goldsmiths

[brittle thorn]

Noice

[brittle thorn]

Eh even moar bore

[grim summit]

you still in uni?

[brittle thorn]

Out of uni

Did finish BS but drop out of MS with units

Because uni hired me in the IT dept...had couple of jobs in IT after that

[grim summit]

oh damn thats kinda sweet did u apply or they offered you

[brittle thorn]

Offer

Was working in Uni IT Comp center bacc then as TA

[grim summit]

now what are you doing?

[brittle thorn]

Freelance atm due to Covid

Last gig was DS related

[grim summit]

thats sick are u getting frequent offers?

[brittle thorn]

Working on my gh rn see https://github.com/TechnoTanuki/Python_BMP

[brittle thorn]

Yeah i ignore most

[grim summit]

oh fr? why

[brittle thorn]

When you get at a certain stage in your career they just come in and you hab to be selective..

I rather code than attend an interview

[grim summit]

oh i thought they are ready for you instead of just interviewing

[grim summit]

also question about this why dont u use OpenGL or Pygame?

[brittle thorn]

Because its moar fun to have no dependencies...can run as server app

[grim summit]

hmm fair

[brittle thorn]

I had an eso python discuss about that lmao

[spare bone]

Thank for the advice, this seems to be the most appealing to my situation.x thank you

[spare bone]

It’s not one thank God. But I’d rather be a junior at a big tech then a senior at a start up.

[pastel thunder]

can i mention my research and internship in the same time(summer vacation).....if i really did them parallelly

[delicate bane]

sure. why not

[pastel thunder]

ok, i will then

i wasn looking carefully at a resume, i noticed all publication are also mentioned in projects as well, just is different words

[brittle thorn]

Some separate the two

[spare bone]

It seems better to tell the truth because if you get caught in the lie it would be awkward to explain why

[smoky quest]

also be clear in terms of professional vs personal experience

[brittle thorn]

Yep

Mention it once it just adds to clutter if repeated

[summer roost]

I'd usually expect the publications section to just include citations - titles, journal names/editions, authors, dates. If the Publications section only lists titles, then I'd say it's OK to actually describe the project that led to the paper in prose in your Projects section. But if your Publications section includes a prose description of each paper, then I'd consider it deliberately misleading to list the project that led to the paper a second time using different words in the Projects section.

[pastel thunder]

Ok

[plucky lion]

This really depends on the country. I’m going to assume America and so I can’t comment on that situation.

But I can tell you in Australia a degree is only going to get you past the HR gatekeepers for contract roles (which are often the upper end of the salary cap, large government departments/large tech corp)

Literally anyone else almost never cares about degrees. Experience is by far king over here. Infact if you have a degree, but no experience yet, good luck getting a job outside of big tech companies that offer graduate roles on the bottom end of the salary range.

I’ll give you my personal story. Didn’t finish school, and so didn’t even start university. Have been coding since I was about 9, but didn’t start to take it seriously until my mid 20s. Got a entry level job as a QA tester in a start up, and within a year they had moved me into a developer role because of my personal coding experience and I was being vocal about being interested in a shift to a dev role. As soon as I hit 2 years experience in that company I started receiving inmail on LinkedIn with job offers elsewhere.

So what I’m trying to say is, you really need to understand the landscape of your countries job market and how it works. If it does rely on degrees, then probably get one. But not all job markets are like that.

[smoky quest]

It's a matter of correlation vs causation.
Having a degree means you have been through some education that has its expectations set throughout the industry. While having a degree is not a guarantee, being more educated means you can dive deeper and further into issues, which correlate with success and growth.
That's also besides all the gatekeeping/filters set on the presence or absence of degree

In some EU country I can also tell you that not having the proper degree means you will hit some hard ceiling.

And on top of that, people without a degree will often develop some sort of inferiority syndrom. That hurts them more than anything

[plucky lion]

Im not sure I agree with this. It’s very common knowledge that most developers have no idea what they are doing and it’s almost exclusively about problem solving (not having memorised a syntax or algorithms ect ect).

While I WILL agree that higher education often leads to better problem solving skills, I think the general consensus is a software engineering degree doesn’t mean much for a company looking to hire someone.

All they care about is, “I see you’ve experience what building software is like for the last x years. That’s good! Welcome aboard!”

[smoky quest]

Let's not make statements like "common knowledge" so freely. Because it's not.

The only thing that matters is: can you do the job.
There is more than one way to get there. But not having a degree is the hardest path

[plucky lion]

A degree isn’t going to save you from imposter syndrome. You are going to feel dumb most days. And there will always be people in the room “smarter” (but really more experienced) than you until the day you can’t code anymore.

[smoky quest]

unfortunately it does.
Because it's all relative. And relatively to the other coworkers, people who lack degrees will definitely inferiors to the most common archetype

[plucky lion]

That’s fair. Even if I believe that to be true for myself and my peers, my experience isn’t everyone’s experience. So I agree saying it’s common knowledge is a poor statement.

[smoky quest]

just to be clear, I am not trying to gatekeep anything or make it in terms of X vs Y.
It's just different paths with different trade offs.

That said, from everyone I know who got in without a degree, they all had to suffer hardship and all wish people worked on a degree. Because it's that hard

[plucky lion]

That’s interesting because a lot of my peers who are extremely established programmers mostly don’t have degrees, or have slightly unrelated degrees. Like game design or mathematics

And their path was always get an entry into It (a lot of system admins, some qa like me, others with game studios) and overtime move into developer roles

Once you are in the door, it’s easy to move horizontally. (Maybe this is only true for Australia?)

Lots of companies (particularly smaller PTY LTDs) like to fill roles with internal talent and backfill the entry level roles.

Admittedly though, I know Australia has a very small talent pool when it comes developers. Software engineer roles take a long time to be filled. My company still hasn’t found any c++ devs yet after a year of advertising. It took them 3 months just to find a C# dev.

[brittle thorn]

Lmao maybe I should move there

[smoky quest]

not the same in the USA.
Lots of candidates.
That means lots of pain and time to move. So studying 1 more year can save you 5 years of xp

[graceful mason]

I think it depends how old they are - my dad grew up learning how computers worked and taught himself electronics, and managed to do some development work for his company that looked great on a CV. Now that he's got over 35 years professional engineering experience that fact that he doesn't have a degree means absolutely nothing. But people entering the workforce today have much less of a chance of gaining that experience without having a degree first, because computers are everywhere now and there's just too many people with a good baseline knowledge so companies need some way of filtering applicants

[smoky quest]

also be aware that most folks on this server are teenagers and younger.
So most may interpret self-taught as skipping school. So be mindful about what you are pushing for

[plucky lion]

Also a fair point. I don’t think anyone should be leaving school/dropping out of university with the mindset that they should just self teach coding with the mindset that it will lead to a job soon.

But what I am saying is, especially if you are young, invest time, a genuine amount of time, in your own projects, gaining any real experience you can. Because it’s worth ALOT more than you think.

[smoky quest]

tbh, I would recommend to do both.
The people with the brightest careers had both.

Having an education does not preclude you from having interesting projects

[plucky lion]

To be clear though, keep in mind that one large project that solves a real problem is 10 times more valuable than 10 basic projects every YouTube tutorial suggests you should do.

[smoky quest]

definitely!

[smoky quest]

out of curiosity, how is immigration to Australia?
I visited once for work and really liked it. Any insight? Which side are you located in?

[brittle thorn]

Yep

[plucky lion]

@smoky quest East like almost everyone 🙂 immigration is easier than other countries for sure, but you need a relationship/business if you want the easy route.

Working visas are super easy though.

[brittle thorn]

I had a couple of friends move to Australia and they seem to be doing well one is in IT and the other isnt.

[smoky quest]

I loved Melbourne and Sydney! But did interact with some folks from Perth

[honest pivot]

I took a look at immigration to Australia a couple years ago. The fee structure is similar to the UK (i.e., rather high application fees), and the difficulty to qualify looks to be somewhere between the UK and Europe (so, easier than the USA for sure, slightly easier than the UK, slightly more difficult than Europe). Also looked at New Zealand and they are a bit tougher than Australia for probably obvious reasons.

[smoky quest]

ah fair enough!
Thanks!

New Zealand had a fun tech immigration initiative a few years ago too. they were pretty good at advertising it too

[dense mesa]

New Zealand looks very good, a few prominent tech people have moved there

[smoky quest]

indeed! Sounds like a great place to be

[dense mesa]

Tallinn has very high quality of life as well as a tech hub supported by the government, would recommend there

Monaco doesn't make you pay any income tax, and the corporate tax is lower if a % of your earnings are made in the country. So if you wanna move but still keep working, very good savings

[smoky quest]

problem is the available jobs.
In terms of income / tax, a no income tax in the US is still a better deal lile in WA/nevada/TX type

[dense mesa]

Yeah that's true, some people acquired small US businesses and then relocated them there to just create a job for themselves

[smoky quest]

also monaco/france is like 1/10th of the compensation you would get in the USA

[dense mesa]

Idk what it's like in France but the Monaco salaries are good

[agile turtle]

How do you deal with those people who look down upon you because you are a self taught programmer.

[dense mesa]

They're not worth the time

[hearty island]

don’t let nobody tell you who to be or write your narrative

and they’re probably jealous bc if you’re self taught you’re clearly independent and have confidence in yourself. don’t let them destroy that.

one more tip of advice: don’t broadcast to just about everyone what you’re learning. chances are most people don’t have your sense of ambition and feel behind, so they’d like to catch up by making you feel misplaced. play it chill, they already know you’re ahead of the curve.

[grim summit]

they mad they spent thousands of dollars

[hearty island]

^ he’s spitting facts

what i’m trying to say is let your results and your success speak for itself. no need to even tell anybody what you learn anymore. you don’t need an audience and you never did

[grim summit]

display ur skills in your own projects

[hearty island]

^^^

[buoyant seal]

I am having CS degree plus constantly self studying.
Nothing is more important than self studies, even if u have degree.
University knowledge is limited and in some countries just out of touch with the real world needs

[hearty island]

look up cool api projects with data sci or cyber sec or whatever

look up webscraping if you wanna do data sci

[grim summit]

first 2 years of computer science feels outdated i cant lie

[hearty island]

bro i struggled so much first sem of cs

[grim summit]

the only thing i struggled with was discrete maths thats it

[hearty island]

my self teaching wasn’t at the level it is now

didn’t have the confidence or the cojones to try stuff and just go for it

[grim summit]

thats what i feel liek the problem is for most people

[hearty island]

also idk why it’s not stressed more, but please talk to people about opportunities. don’t just focus on your grades in college, i along with plenty others can guarantee you companies want some real world experience on your resume

[grim summit]

either; they start a huge project with no knowledge or Learn but get scared starting projects

[hearty island]

i don’t mean get an internship at apple right from the start, but even an internship at a startup you networked yourself into is mad impressive

pursue the internships hard is what i’d say

and go to the clubs even clubs that aren’t specifically your major

for example, i'm a business analytics major who has a leadership position at the accounting club on campus. companies like seeing shit like that bc it shows you can apply your skills to a lot of diff things.

and finally, during interviews in general. don't play the odds, play the man. smile at your interviewer, laugh, crack jokes, and use a line of questioning where you generally know/ have a hunch of what the answers of your interviewers are to the questions you ask. interviewers like smiles and open + friendly body language + insightful questions.

ok my ted talk is over i have to go shower

[shrewd kraken]

is the course hard?

[hearty island]

which course

[shrewd kraken]

business analytics

where did you study btw? it's fr an year right @hearty island

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, I have a snake python code and I wanted to know if anybody can add a scoreboeard to the snake code

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

You either uploaded a .txt file or entered a message that was too long. Please use our paste bin instead.

[minor shard]

What does it take to be a professional python developer?
Does my code need to meet a certain quality or is there something else that I need to fulfil?

[hearty island]

not disclosing where i study out of interests of privacy

[peak halo]

this is going to depend on what kind of developer you want to be and the expectations of a company to which you apply.

[dim nimbus]

What are the best coding languages to learn if would like to do game development??

[summer roost]

C++ or C#

[dim nimbus]

Thank you

[summer roost]

But also, don't do game development. I constantly hear horror stories about the game development industry

Game developers tend to be overworked and underpaid, and have worse job security and worse work/life balance than basically any other type of developer

[dim nimbus]

Oh what would you recommend as an alternative??

[summer roost]

Game dev companies take advantage of people who love video games.

I'm a backend developer on Unix systems. I think backend dev is the most interesting stuff, and it pays quite well

[dim nimbus]

Thank you for your time 😁

[peak halo]

AI also pays well, though it requires knowledge in a whole bunch of topics that aren't actually programming, and many find that the reality of AI doesn't live up to the hype.

[dim nimbus]

(Sorry I am quite new to this) what does that intail??

[peak halo]

the foundation of AI is much more mathy than the foundation of general programming. one doesn't necessarily need to think about the math during day-to-day AI development, but then that involves a lot of things like data cleaning.

[jaunty helm]

Does anybody know anything about information logistics?

Like what you do

[delicate bane]

no idea, sorry

[dense mesa]

What do you need to know?

[jaunty helm]

Just heard of it and it sound interesting

[jaunty helm]

So I wanted to know if anyone has experience with it or knows what exactly you do. Like is it mostly programming or more planning and stuff

[dense mesa]

It's to do with the movement of data basically

[vapid jay]

hi

br, algum br?

[crisp hill]

sou pt

[vapid jay]

Programa bots em Python?

[crisp hill]

manda dm

[peak halo]

@vapid jay @crisp hill please use English to the best of your ability

[mild night]

guys, what would be better (after python): c++ or Java?

[peak halo]

C++ would be more difficult to learn, but if you already know Python, it would probably be more useful, since it is lower level than Python or Java.

[mild night]

hmm well c++ sounds to be the better choice. but the thing is, that I have to choose one of them

[crisp hill]

sorry i was helping the other guy since he didn’t understand a single bit of english

[delicate bane]

what do you want to do

[mild night]

I heard c++ is good if I want to work with embeded systems or game design

[peak halo]

who constructed this circumstance where you're required to learn exactly one of C++ and Java?

[mild night]

university, last semester was python. and now its either Java or c++ .v.
and I cant decide tbh

[peak halo]

if the easiness of the course is a priority, Java would probably be easier, since it does not require manual memory management. Java is also very widely used. Though for your general CS knowledge, C++ would do more to expand your horizons.

[mild night]

so I want to have more "to show off", so in that case c++ would be better?

[peak halo]

I'm not completely sure what you mean by that, but if you currently know Python, you will probably learn more than you currently know by learning C++ over Java.

[mild night]

alright, then thats it.
and anyways, if I want I can learn Java anytime I want, right?

[peak halo]

yes, that misery will always be available.

[mild night]

then, u have my thanks - lets see how c++ will go

[hearty island]

haha i’ll be putting myself through that fall sem

won’t be too worried tho, i already familiarized myself with java syntax a couple months ago

[silent wolf]

@crisp hill hard to use Python and not understand english

[peak halo]

@silent wolf that's debatable, but the point of our "English only" policy is to make the experience more consistent and to make the server possible to moderate. we're not interested in gatekeeping Python.

[near ocean]

Python and C++ seems to be the choice of langs for quants so this combo could potentially get you rich
Ofc knowing the languages is only around 10% of the getting a quant job

[peak halo]

quant?

[near ocean]

Quantitative analysts, fintech roles for hedge funds/investment banks

[smoky quest]

java is used a lot in there too

[brittle thorn]

Lots of them in London and NY

[near ocean]

Yes that too, one of my quant friends uses java/python while another uses cpp/python

Both are valuable

[silent wolf]

@peak halo spanish documentation overall is lacking

i'm sure its similar for Portuguese

[crisp hill]

he was brazilian

[regal agate]

you only need to have a little very little knowledge of english to use any programming language

[slim night]

hi all, I have hit a brick wall with learning Python

I had to pause working through Automate the Boring Stuff because it wasn't jiving. I found Python Crash Course at my public library and checked it out. Got to the chapter on Classes and have really had a hard time with it

Is Python's emphasis finding new and clever ways to make algorithms faster? Because I don't know if my brain is wired that way. I prefer to write apps to process data files and the like, but a lot of the jobs I've seen are for finance stuff, and I am STEM-focused

[true harness]

python's emphasis is being quick to develop.

but a lot of the jobs I've seen are for finance stuff, and I am STEM-focused
python has many uses in data science, maybe you're looking in the wrong place?
Got to the chapter on Classes and have really had a hard time with it
if you'd like, you can open a help channel and ping me in it to talk through classes

[slim night]

Thank you so much. But I had to take a break from Python and went back to catch up on C# (I had written some stuff in it in 2009 and thought that since it was so close to VBA that I would be able to wrap my head around it better. Then I hit a wall with it too)

I enjoy writing applications for processing raw data into forms the user can digest and use, (think VBA macros to take a .csv file and throw out the extraneous data, format it, and submit it as a succinct report). It seems C# may be more oriented to that kind of work than Python

[wanton oriole]

Hello, I recently completed a Python course. I want to start learning about web technologies but I am not sure about the path I should follow.

I actually know basic HTLM and CSS but not JS. Should I learn JS first or go with Django or Flask while my python syntax knowladge is fresh?

If it is JS, what should I learn afterwards. I hear many libraries..

Thanks for any response 🙏

[delicate bane]

dunno about C# but python+pandas does that work extremely, extremely well. you should really look into data science work too.

[vapid jay]

Yes, learn to create stuff using Django or Flask and build some apps. You don’t really need a lot of Python to use those web framework.

[slim night]

I've heard of the Pandas library; thanks for the tip

[vapid jay]

heyo i am making a little program for my gf and i am facing some problems and i am wondering if someone can check it 4 me

[wintry apex]

print (f' Your total monthly expenses is ${total:.2f}. And if you keep up the same spending behavior, your yearly expenses will be, ${yearly_total:.2f}. ')

[peak halo]

this is the channel for career discussion. see #❓｜how-to-get-help. also when you request help, give enough information for someone to start answering; don't give a teaser and hope that someone will commit without knowing the question.

[wintry apex]

Can someone help me find the syntax error pls

[peak halo]

see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

okay sorry

[woven hedge]

I'm not necessarily sure this is the right channel for this but I have recently been assigned a contractor position at work and it requires me getting as proficient as possible with python. What projects helped you all really get immersed? I have C programming experience mainly and a CS degree

[summer roost]

do you know an OOP language like Java or C# or C++?

I think https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/ is a great resources for learning Python for someone who already knows a few other languages.

[woven hedge]

@summer roost I took some courses in school but professionally I haven't done any OOP work. But I'm familiar enough to dabble. I've been practicing at around 15-20 hours a week for the past month or so

[opal mango]

any good book for chatbots?

Is there a carrier for chatbots ultimately? I mean, any job title like that?

[graceful mason]

There are companies that develop chatbots.... not the most complicated things so I imagine the pay, experience, and availability are relatively poor

[proper leaf]

Is there any potential in smaller towns for job opportunities? I wouldn't be able to teach at the high school here or nothing for experience but after high school I'm worried I'll have to move out to go somewhere I'm more likely to get a job

Not immediately after high school but still

[woven hedge]

Work from home

Ever since covid most engineering jobs I've seen have shown a lot of WFH flexibility. I haven't been forced to go to an office for a long time, and now half my team live in different time zones

[proper leaf]

would internships be possible from home? edit: I'll just assume yes for now lol

[minor shard]

hmm, doesn't it depend on the skill level of the developer instead of the company to which we are applying?

[astral ermine]

I think they mean that by definition, a "professional" is just someone who is paid to do something. So it will depend on the expectations of the company you apply to work for.

[undone willow]

I decided to check out job postings for Python/Flask devs on Indeed. It seems years of experience are always required. I know 5 years or 8 years isn't always exact but do you guys with less than 5 years experience apply anyways?

[minor shard]

oh, thanks for the clarification

[vapid jay]

I'm stuck in Python and don't know what to do next.

[smoky quest]

yes. If you are looking at 5/8 years of experience, it means you are looking at job ads for senior and above levels

[smoky quest]

You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help to increase your chances of getting help

[undone willow]

Any tips on filtering out senior level positions?

I looked at internships in hopes of getting ready for backend job that deals with Flask and some other related things.

[smoky quest]

indeed has a filter for level of experience. And the same for other websites like linkedin

[valid dawn]

ANOUNCEMENT I AM A PERSON!

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
However this channel #career-advice is not meant for shitposting. Let's keep the discussions on topic. Thanks!

[shrewd kraken]

Okay

[near ocean]

the job that pays most whilst not sucking your soul

[brittle thorn]

Good idea dont die for your job lmao

[honest pivot]

If your company employs Dementors, that is right out

[near ocean]

We call them managers here

[vapid jay]

Hello, dear experts. I have a big question for my career pathway.

I'm thinking to be data analyst rn. I have 2 different choices for being it, now I'm preparing myself to the university. Firstly please tolerate my broken English, is not my main tongue.

Should I be expert at Statistics first so go for statistics major and then improve computer things /// or should I study software en/ comp science first and then consentrate on statictics?

Thank y'all. 3 months left to the major selection phase.

[peak halo]

there's no way to formally measure how skillful someone is in programming, but individual companies will know what they want their developers to be able to do.

@vapid jay are your only options statistics or computer science? if you do computer science, do you have the option to make your coursework data-oriented?

[minor shard]

oh thanks understood

[vapid jay]

Like that. If I choose statistics instead, I can study at better universities. Example, if 10x point needed on exams to study at a good university's comp sci or soft en, it's 7x for statistics because of high demand to comp sci / soft en in Turkey

[dense mesa]

@vapid jay to be a data analyst, my recommendation would be to study CS instead of statistics. A lot of the mathematics you need is done by a computer, you don't need to implement the techniques yourself

[vapid jay]

Thank you for your valuable comment. As I said before I have 3 months to think, I will.

[formal steeple]

Hello guys I have a question. Can you use python as a bot to fill out documents on a browser. I have my code but how can i connect it the website I want to use it on ? Thank you for your help

[near ocean]

This is not a careers related question

[formal steeple]

Excuse me where can I ask the questions?

[near ocean]

#python-discussion or a help channel

[formal steeple]

Ok thanks very much

[woven hedge]

You can absolutely intern from home, I know several personally

[honest plume]

any software developer here who can share their experience like what is to be expected and what do you do on a daily basis, is it worth it, is it exhausting

[rough portal]

Hii guys I'm in my first year so what do I do to excel in this year and the upcoming years.
Please guide....

[somber hornet]

It depends on where you work and what your role is honestly. Right now I'm mainly fixing a tons of bugs on a product we're supporting. It can be tedious and frustrating sometimes, but not hard or exhausting. I don't feel like I'm being rushed or pressured where I work but other places may vary. Writing code is more fun but then I guess you're also the one to blame when things go wrong. I will say re 'is it worth it' it helps to enjoy learning about technology and messing around with it. I'm the kind of person who really wants to and enjoys learning about tech generally. So this helps stop me from burning out. Otherwise it may seem like a lot of work and effort compared to other careers.

[real crystal]

Hi guys! Are you guys familiar with the snakify course for learning python? I have finished it and want to learn more about python so that I can answer more complex coding problems. Any recommendations on how I can continue? thx

[near ocean]

study, if you have free time learn some more technologies and build some small projects

[woven hedge]

I've been a software engineer for 5 years and it's very hit and miss. Hated my first job, loved my second one. Depending on what you're working on the stress and intensity vary, but I would definitely say it has been worth it so far. I have come a long way and have worked on some crazy projects

[honest plume]

interesting

ive heard that small companies have better work environment

[woven hedge]

Smaller companies give you more responsibility, starting out that might be more stressful but you'll learn more

[honest plume]

but ill be working for a big international company so dont know what to expect

[woven hedge]

Hopefully you'll get good mentorship and patience

That makes all the difference. Allow you to get up to speed

[grim summit]

hey has anyone here used or heard about turing and knows if its legit or not?

[worthy mica]

Turing is what I did in grade 9

it's a terrible language for speed but it's not too bad if you're learning

[grim summit]

??? im talking about the website

[worthy mica]

oh lol no I don't then

[near ocean]

might be faster if you linked to whatever website you want to get opinions on
and also, i dont think this is very on topic for the channel

[grim summit]

the website is meant to help you land jobs

[near ocean]

the website also says "top 1% of 1 million+ developers" whatever that means

[grim summit]

i know but i got recommended it

[delicate bane]

yeah they probs have high requirements then or one would hope

[grim summit]

i got no clue to be honest lol im just trying it out

[bleak thunder]

have some1 used toogit?

[delicate bane]

good luck. if you find anything out, id be curious to know

[grim summit]

seems sketchy af so far I cant lie to u

[delicate bane]

[near ocean]

Use more established job boards

[grim summit]

what do you recommend

[near ocean]

Linkedin, indeed, glassdoor, totaljobs, etc

[fair niche]

Hi, I'm a first year clg student and looking to explore data science field, I recently finished a course by Google on data analytics that covered Spreadsheets, SQL, Tableau and basics of R programming for data cleaning, analysis and visualisation. I'm a bit lost what I should do next, start looking into machine learning courses? Or something that should be done before that? Any suggestions/advice would be very appreciated.

[fierce apex]

I love R but as a next step I would suggest going through some of the basic Kaggle tutorials on ML with Python...

This is the canonical starting place:
https://www.kaggle.com/c/titanic

[fair niche]

Is this beginning-friendly? I've got 0 experience with machine learning

[fierce apex]

Very beginner friendly.

[fair niche]

Okay thanks! I'll check that out

[graceful mason]

As a software engineer writing firmware (mostly WFH) at a FTSE 100 company my day consists of:

• Get on at 10am (can choose to start from 8-10am) and check my emails/tickets etc
• Hour of work on my tickets until department standup at ~11:15-11:40
• Continue work until whenever I want lunch (usually starting at 12:00-13:00 for 20-40mins)
• Work until daily team meeting at 15:00-15:30
• Work until EOD

The work mostly consists of choosing 1 or 2 tickets to work on at the same time - our gitlab pipeline lasts for 1hr30 and regression/functional tests take at least half a day so there's always downtime to switch between tickets. Every ticket will usually involve writing firmware, unit tests, framework tests, simulation tests, and running functional tests

I'll also be automatically assigned to code reviews, which will happen every 1-3 days depending on how much work people are doing

Throughout the week I'll have various meetings including grooming, team and department reviews, 1-on-1 catch ups, and meetings with people from my or other teams to help with tickets. Also for a couple of hours every week we have a timeslot dedicated to any experimental work we want to do

Often alongside my tickets I'll be put in a team comprised of people from multiple departments to investigate larger issues so that will add a variable amount of work/meetings

Every few weeks I'm put on a support desk for a day, and every few months I lead bundle release for a week

Overall I really like my job because:

• everyone I've met at the company is really nice, and I get on well with my team
• the work keeps me interested but doesn't overwhelm
• I have the opportunity to work in many different areas so it isn't monotonous
• I like the product and feel I'm making a difference to it

[void topaz]

Any online source of learning data analytics

[rough portal]

I'm interested in machine learning so after learning python what should I do next..
And should I also learn web dev simultaneously???

[ancient star]

Great answer, insightful for us students!

[near ocean]

Learn machine learning? Im not sure what kind of answer youre looking for
You dont have to learn webdev but if you do it'll make showing off projects easier

[delicate bane]

i dont recommend trying to learn two separate fields at once, but to each their own i guess

[rough portal]

Only for project purpose
My major focus is on ml

[near ocean]

The basics of webdev for the purpose of showing off other tech is not that deep, wouldnt necessarily call it a field

[buoyant seal]

that's what I did. But in my defense they are really well combining/synergizing with each other.

[delicate bane]

yes yours combines really well tho...others...not so much

[gilded valley]

ij+

[honest plume]

cool, thanks for your reply

[woven hedge]

Awesome answer

From any experienced python devs, what project really took you to the next level? Like went from alright in python to pretty damn good

From a career perspective I should clarify, what took you over the edge to get promoted or a raise or more recognition etc

[dense mesa]

@woven hedge https://ardalis.com/profit-center-or-cost-center/

Best edge is to go from being a cost centre to a profit centre

[woven hedge]

Love that, thank you

[vapid jay]

THAT'S SUCH A GOOD COLLEGE. HOW DID YOU GET IN?

[nocturne girder]

Uhh… I went to community college for 3 years first, got a B+ average then transferred

[vapid jay]

oh.. i wanted to go to UCSD right after HS

only 18 people from my school got in this year. Our school is one of the top in calif, I think it's because of affirmative action or similar ( 😦 )..

[nocturne girder]

Then I went to UCLA for grad school, 70% acceptance rate if you already hold a BS in engineering

[vapid jay]

broooo no wayyy

did you take Physics C?

My dream college is UCSD

[nocturne girder]

I did my physics classes at community college, classical mechanics, E&M, and quantum

[vapid jay]

did you live in California?

[nocturne girder]

Yes

[vapid jay]

me 2 i live in SD

[nocturne girder]

Go to community college, it takes longer but it works

Otherwise you are only getting into UCSD with a 4.1+ GPA

[vapid jay]

I want to do ROTC in university though. my GPA is 4.3, I don't feel like i would miss any credits though

[nocturne girder]

And you think you cant get in with that?

[vapid jay]

it's a very prestigious school.. my senior friend who had a 4.3 and a few more with 4.1+ didn't get in

[nocturne girder]

If I had a 4.3, I’d be looking at UC Berkley, or MIT

[vapid jay]

i think college admissions is just weird this year

[wraith fjord]

Hi i'm 17, i am in 2nd years college and i will know which is the best language for beginning and what i need before starting coding ?

sorry, if my question can destabilised some people

[severe widget]

This is not a Modmail thread.

[smoky quest]

wrong discord :p

@wraith fjord javascript for frontend or python for general language are great starting languages.
Nothing to destabilize people

[pastel quail]

the meaning of a gpa varies wildly based on the specific school’s way of calculating it. at my school, a 4.3 would probably be about average ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[summer roost]

What's your major?

[nocturne girder]

In the US, no way is a 4.3 average

[true harness]

GPA is pretty much meaningless when you start to compare across schools

[summer roost]

it's not even standardized what the top is. At my school it was impossible to have a GPA above 4.0

[nocturne girder]

Its always been 4.0 top for non-AP, and 5.0 for AP everywhere I’ve seen in the US

[summer roost]

that was not the case at my high school. 🤷

granted, that was decades ago.

at my high school, the highest possible GPA was 4.3. At my university, the highest possible GPA was 4.0

[nocturne girder]

I dont think it really matters, other than to say in no way is a 4.3 average

[pastel quail]

here, honors and ap classes are both on a 5.0 scale and honors is the standard track

that combined with grade inflation and the general privilegedness of the area results in a non negligible amount of people getting close to 5.0

[nocturne girder]

My valedictorian had a 4.6, maybe its different

[pastel quail]

yeah, my point was that it depends on the school

[grim summit]

Does leetcode help you get flagged by recruiters?

[summer roost]

not that I've ever heard of.

Being good at leetcode might help you do well on an interview, but I've never heard of it helping you get an interview.

[grim summit]

alright also godlygeek have you heard of turing if so is it legit?

[summer roost]

no idea what that is

other than that it's presumably named for Alan Turing 🙂

[delicate bane]

this is why business doesnt like many IT functions

[dense mesa]

From an MBA's perspective, they're too far removed from the function to classify it as anything other than a cost

[smoky quest]

that's only natural.
Think about your monthly income. Would you rather spend it on maintaining your car and house or spending it on investments/fun things which are more rewarding? Maintaining your car and house are still important but I don't know anyone who is looking forward to paying hundreds of dollars to change the timing belt of their cars

Now, as a leader with a budget in your company. Would you rather spend it to hire another IT person to keep the place well oiled or would you rather spend it for another engineer in the team to build more features and grow the business further? Which one are you gonna see as core competency / secret sauce of your business and which one as someone just there to keep the lights on?

[delicate bane]

i wonder if theres another way of doing things...

what if you had IT peeps do 90% maintainence and 10% fun things (?) - whatever that looks like...maybe support new products, idk?

[honest pivot]

I think it's generally a bad idea to split someone in such a way. They're pretty different skillsets anyway.

[smoky quest]

To some extent, you do want to care about these. Google does consider their infrastructure somewhat as a competitive advantage. But there is a limit on the returns and not everyone has google's problems

[delicate bane]

yeah its not optimized but it would be easier to convince business stakeholders for funding

[smoky quest]

There are tangibles and non-tangibles benefits.
If you can link them to the development velocity or uptime for instance.

However it's a bit more tricky to quantify the "not getting hacked" benefits for instance.
And in the end, it still comes down to link the work to profit centers

[delicate bane]

yeah its tough, especially for roles that are two or more steps removed

[honest pivot]

It probably requires a PhD mathematician to correctly calculate the value of an IT department, and would require a really good one to also put those results into a digestible format to present to the people controlling the money.

[smoky quest]

definitely!
There are also the communication skills of the IT people at play by how well they are able to articulate their benefits. And how knowledgeable/smart are the business folks to understand that they do need IT

[delicate bane]

and then its a coin flip to whether the business listens or not

this begs the question, how do CIOs get any funding

tech leadership seems hard tbh

[smoky quest]

There are also a lot of incompetent people

[honest pivot]

I mean, at some basic level everyone has to understand that no systems = no product = no money. What's difficult is understanding the value of the systems at some more specific level of detail.

[dense mesa]

The maths itself isn't difficult, it's basically just operations research focused on cost/benefit. I did something similar for my internship

[honest pivot]

I'm talking about the statistics related to events that didn't happen because of the efforts of the IT department. 😛

[dense mesa]

Yeah that gets included

[smoky quest]

Any link or data? I would love to hear more about that. Ex: should I spend X or 1.5x for the same level of protection?

[delicate bane]

the probability that a ddos attack brings down your entire service?

[smoky quest]

you are joking but I have been at companies where we ddos-ed ourselves

[delicate bane]

i-

[brittle thorn]

Lmao sounds familiiar.....yeah some bosses are afraid of change so they keep things from happening

[delicate bane]

[brittle thorn]

It is difficult to quantify that sometimes or do a cost benefit analysis...of a particular system that has yet to be implemented.... esp if the implementation itself has uncertainties.....tech or otherwise

[brittle thorn]

Business folks will listen if the financials makes sense ...yep its hard...seen Biz override tech many times

[dense mesa]

https://www.xenongroup.co.uk/knowledge-centre/risk-management/the-risk-formula-how-to-calculate-the-level-of-risk-to-your-business

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/risk-calculation

For the value of a cost centre, I basically just used this model from the UK government website and made a pivot table to do sensitivity analysis:
https://www.gov.uk/introduction-to-business-rates/how-your-rates-are-calculated

Since you can make a rudimentary model of a cost centre as a business which is being charged "rates" by the finance department

These are really basic models with many inherently flawed assumptions, I only used it to establish a range based on sensitivity of a few main factors

[woven hedge]

Bringing in additional value beyond just the programming aspect is definitely how a lot of the people in my company get ahead

I've been bringing in a lot of warm bodies since I have a large professional network, my higher ups love it

Looking to also get my MBA, not interested unless my company is paying for it though

and I've been grinding with learning as much coding as possible, Python is a new venture for me in my career but I've become proficient enough to contribute to projects at this point

[smoky quest]

Thanks for sharing! Looks interesting!

[brittle thorn]

There are operational risk managers in finance...I actually met one such critter once.

So they have ORM or operational risk management software ....that is ORM for them not Object Relational Mapping lmao

[twin pendant]

Does anyone ever get in these weird slumps with their programming where they just feel tired and burned out and mad? I feel like everyone always says the whole “you don’t love what you do if you don’t love every bit of it, and all the hard parts” shtick but I am genuinely curious if you guys ever feel disheartened and unhappy with your progress

[summer roost]

Everyone can burn out. It's usually a good sign that you need to switch up what you're doing.

[twin pendant]

I think for me, the thing isn’t hating the concept of what I’m doing. It’s not hating the essence of it. It’s hating the slugging through without progress sometimes. There are some really difficult days.

[summer roost]

yep, that can happen to anyone. The one time in my life I really experienced burnout, it was doing work that I enjoyed, but too much of it, with too little stuff besides the work

even if it's work you enjoy, it can become exhausting and overwhelming when you don't force yourself to take breaks and pace yourself.

[shadow mist]

How should I proceed if I want to make a transition from data science/finance to SWE in tech?

[twin pendant]

I think sometimes being stuck without a solid answer is the worst. Like you’re just trying to get a bit of code to work over and over again. It feels great when you solve it but it can be so discouraging

[twin pendant]

I would say this transition would be pretty easy. Data science has a decent bit of math. Those skills are very easily transferable to fintech. A lot of data scientists work in fintech.

[shadow mist]

Do all devs in fintech or just tech work remotely right now?

[summer roost]

no. Many work fully remote, many work hybrid (some days in office, some days remote), and some work full time from the office.

[shadow mist]

What's my best bet if I want to work fully remote with my background?

[delicate bane]

i feel that. it can def feel like a grind at times.

sometimes, it makes me wonder how people can have long careers in this field without burning out tbh.

[twin pendant]

The thing is I always find reasons to be in love with it. I hear about some cool new project, or some awesome machine learning model and I’m just in love with it

[delicate bane]

like, my boss #2 at work has been in software for 20+ years and i honestly give mad respect to the guy. especially since im just a newbie and it already feels like a lot at times lol

[twin pendant]

And then… other days I slog through the code and i feel just too frustrated to function

It’s a weird dichotomy. I think to love something means to love it actively even when you don’t like it. Love and like are different things I think.

[delicate bane]

hmm i think for me its coming to terms with being okay with not getting it right away and not letting the frustration get the better of me (even if i can be impatient). i think its better (and maybe healthier) to have the mindset of "look how far i came", y'know?

[summer roost]

focus on one goal at a time - focus on transitioning to SWE first, and then worry about getting a 100% remote job.

[vapid jay]

I am a full stack django developer

[twin pendant]

I think maybe I’d feel that a little more if I didn’t have so many homework assignments stacked on top of each other. When you only have a week to get something right, the pressure is on to push yourself in that amount of time to know something to completion.

The perfectionist mindset is absolutely something I need to let go of though

[shadow mist]

Wouldn't having DS on your look impressive enough to get a swe job easier?

[tepid herald]

backend web developer i see

[vapid jay]

lmfao

[tepid herald]

whats so funny lol

[tepid herald]

do you reccomend django?

[delicate bane]

yeah that can def eat into it. oof.

[tepid herald]

Im really good with html/css should i learn advanced js?

Im planning on being a WEB DEVELOPER

[delicate bane]

that would probably be a good start

[tepid herald]

thoughts on my website: https://ibstertech.epizy.com/

[delicate bane]

have you checked out roadmap.sh

[tepid herald]

no

[delicate bane]

im not a web dev so im not qualified to give any thoughts

[summer roost]

easier than someone with a CS degree? No, I wouldn't expect so.

[tepid herald]

like what u think of the website?

[wild mesa]

Yes, if you really want to get into web dev as a career JS is a must.
You'll be expected to know server side languages like ASPX, NodeJS, and JSP as well

[tepid herald]

should I learn django?

[wild mesa]

There's too many things that you should learn, what's more important is that you pick something interesting to you and start there

So sure, django would be a great start if it get's you moving in that direction and you're having fun

[tepid herald]

but is django used alot?

[wild mesa]

I don't personally know any large organisations that use django, it's not super common in my field.

[tepid herald]

thoughts on my website: https://ibstertech.epizy.com/

[wild mesa]

Not to be harsh, but if you only new django and were compeating against someone who only knew ASPX, the aspx dev would get the job

[tepid herald]

lol

[buoyant seal]

All u say sounds really weird, including having JS is a must
I will disagree with everything.

JS is not a must for backend
Just basics to learn to middle rank for general education, that is it

[wild mesa]

I did click on it and I think it froze my browser's resources lol
It looks awesome from a design perspective, I was expecting the tiles at the top to be clickable all over, but turns out only the text is clickable.

[tepid herald]

lol?

[wild mesa]

Go ahead Darkwind, happy to discuss

[tepid herald]

is it working or not?

send me a screenshot

[wild mesa]

RE: "JS is not a must for backend"
You're right, it's not a must for backend assuming you're not wokring on any NodeJS stuff. But @tepid herald didn't say back end, I assumed they're talking about a front end dev career. Considering their skills with HTML and CSS

[tepid herald]

yes

[buoyant seal]

And if the programming language and framework is chosen. And python is usually chosen for its fast development and readability. There is no really competion like this.

There are job vacancies or not.
Programming language and framework decides only available market share of job positions available to it.

Surely it is nice to know other Langs for backend, but usually person wins his position by being expert in one.

I can't imagine you comparrd python and Aspx and say the latter is better. This is Microsoft for god's sake....

Well, if he goes to frontend, then there is no choice ;)

[tepid herald]

choice?

[wild mesa]

Choice about learning JS or not

[buoyant seal]

Frontend has only JavaScript and typescript above it.

Plus front frameworks bring their own syntax on top of them.

That is it. In the end all of it JS

[tepid herald]

these programming languages I want to learn are: python, html, css, js

what will my career look like?

[buoyant seal]

Py can be used only for backend seriously.

If u wish frontend career, better to learn smth like React

[tepid herald]

what are my career paths gonna be?

[buoyant seal]

Frontend is html/css/js
Backend is smth like py/SQL and etc

[buoyant seal]

https://roadmap.sh
Check frontend / backend / DevOps

[tepid herald]

should i go for FULL STACK DEVELOPER?

[wild mesa]

yes :p

[tepid herald]

what will the salary be

[buoyant seal]

Better to concentrate on one thing first. Do one thing and do well.

[tepid herald]

if you compare them

[wild mesa]

That's an amazing resource, saving that for later
I still stand by what I said about ASPX, it's far more common in production apps than purly pythonic implimentations

[tepid herald]

ok

[wild mesa]

I am not saying ASPX is better in any way lol, just more popular

[buoyant seal]

I can't believe it, considering the market share of python

The only thing more popular than python, is JS backends

[tepid herald]

I will take a look at the roadmap

the only reason im learning python is bcse its HIGH DEMAND

[wild mesa]

I don't know what to tell you, perhaps the market share stats you're looking at are deceptive

[buoyant seal]

It is like saying that Azure is more popular than AWS and Google

[wild mesa]

It's never one or the other though

[buoyant seal]

Anyway. If the developer wishes to be good web developer, he/she better stay out of Microsoft and Aspx in my opinion.
Microsoft is just receipt for disaster in web world

[fiery sand]

How simple is it for someone who is just learning

[buoyant seal]

It was acceptable in acient times when Windows Servers were popular and used in a monolithic/hardware era. But not today

[fiery sand]

(To learn the language)

[wild mesa]

How can you say python has a larger market share than aspx?
Did you do any research to back this up?
https://w3techs.com/technologies/comparison/pl-aspnet,pl-python

[wild mesa]

Sorry, we've mentioned a few languages. Which are you curious about?

[fiery sand]

Python

[wild mesa]

Python is awesome, and easy to learn

[fiery sand]

Even for people with 0 experience?

[wild mesa]

Yeah, all languages will feel weird if you're a beginner, but python is very beginner friendly and if you stick with it you'll discover how useful it can be to you

It's also super easy to jump into, can play with it right in a command window / terminal and not need to worry about compilers and stuff

[fiery sand]

Ok thanks. I’ll learn it this weekend

[buoyant seal]

https://youtu.be/94LokRYL5n0

As u can see your C# was popular. But to this day it is at the end of the table

[wild mesa]

"Data source: Github. Data and popularity are calculated based on the number of Stars of the repositories exported from GitHub Archive"
Yeah that's a great sample population there, only github and the 'popularity' is a star ranking?
When was the last time you saw a governemnt organisation publish it's web code to github?

So this graph is comparing the most popular languages on github, and sure that makes sense that python would be way up there

[buoyant seal]

Just search in hiring big enough websites amount of opened positions for C# and python in web development. That will be the most accurate and up-to-date score

In terms of career perspectives

[wild mesa]

Ok look, you can keep cherry picking your data as much as you want, I'm not trying to change your opinion. But I stand by what I said.
I test web applications as a career and come accross way more .NET, NodeJS, and even Adobe Coldfusion websites than I do python ones. Not saying they don't exist and python isn't an awesome server-side language, but in my expereince it has been a very rare thing to come up for testing. Any backend developer would benifit from knowing a range of languages.

[gilded valley]

A good metric for what languages are actually used is the stack overflow dev survey and other surveys that explicitly ask whether people are professionals. Still has a selection bias, but almost certainly more accurate than tiobe or whatever

And looking at that, you see that Django and flask are not un-popular, but they are quite a bit less popular than .net, spring, or Express

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-technologies-webframe-prof

[gilded valley]

This is not remotely true. .Net core has a lot going for it, including incredible performance and a lot of people who really enjoy writing it

[near ocean]

Python stats are inflated because literally everyone has some use for python, whether its glue code, cli stuff, automation, whatever
Its not that used as the driver for a webapp tho

[gilded valley]

That's true for the language, but the Frameworks section is probably pretty accurate

[near ocean]

whats sad is something like spring being more "popular" or more used than both flask or django

and whats even sadder is fastapi being on the same level as drupal lmao

[torn zealot]

I have a question, how much can python be merged with engineering?

[near ocean]

What kind of engineering

[tired yoke]

Is there an api for status change, the bot will detect it

[near ocean]

Thats not a careers related question
Come on guys, its not hard to read the description of the channel youre posting in, or even the channel name

[pastel thunder]

Whats the difference between a software designer and software developer....in terms of job/internship role

[near ocean]

i dont think i've come across a posting for a software designer

[buoyant seal]

ops. I accidentally have read it as a software engineer and developer 🤔 My mind did not see the designer word. I'll say that I did not see software designer too, may be software architect ? in System Analysis And Design disipline, there exists designing stage of software, but usually this is called being Software Architect

[near ocean]

lol

in the case of "engineer", some countries wont allow you to use that title because its protected and you need to be a member of an engineer standards body to use it
so in that case their duties, benefits and general compensation would be greater than a software dev

[buoyant seal]

Two possible choices who is Software Designer

1. It is Web designer (graphical one) working in Figma, possibly also UI/UX designer
2. it is Software Architect, the person planning and designing architecture of the programming product, designing microservices / databases / components to code

[near ocean]

wouldnt they have their seniors or principal engineers do the architecture?
seems odd to recruit specifically for that task

[buoyant seal]

Software Architect is basically the senior dev who migrated (at least partially) to Software Architect role.
in small companies it is just part of Senior(or whoever the most quallified) duties.

[analog lark]

Is it possible I can continue as a software engineer with just python?

or do I need smth like C++

or Java?

[honest pivot]

It helps to have a variety of tools

[analog lark]

Ah, I see.

[buoyant seal]

it helps to concentrate on something one, once you started to be in commercial programming ;b At least for the first years.

[buoyant seal]

Sure. You can be software engineer in any full programming language.
The difference only in which programming fields you are going to be applied. What are the domains available for the lang

[analog lark]

So like

if I'm aiming at a Google internship which language am I better off using?

[buoyant seal]

Python: Web development / Machine Learning / A bit of microcontroller dev / DevOps scripting

C++: Desktop development / Microcontroller dev / 🤔 OS stuff?

[buoyant seal]

Shrugs, Google opened job positions in Google. Make analysis, which languages they seek to use
As far as I know, Python and Golang should be among them for sure

[analog lark]

Glad I'm learning Go lol

Problem is the part where I get the Google internship tho

I heard it's hard to get an internship at big tech companies

[shadow mist]

I wish I was working remotely again

[shell fable]

is it usually possible for ppl to gain a software engineering position with python as their main language?

[near ocean]

yes

there's people here that have jobs that primarily involve python
i was hired to work on a python project mainly as well

[vapid jay]

yo

how much of your job is copy pasting stuff from stack overflow?

[near ocean]

pretty much none to be honest

[vapid jay]

so theyre copying your code

[near ocean]

my code is private for the most part, i work on internal tools mostly

[vapid jay]

I see

[delicate bane]

you can always look for a dif job

[shadow mist]

I want to work as developer remotely again

Anyways, I'm currently working long hours at a toxic work env at a trading firm, I'm a bit paralyzed hence I'm confused on how I shall proceed.
I'm hoping someone could give me a map

[pastel thunder]

I noticed people only mention recent extra curricular in grad application
If i raised money in my 6th grade lmao...should i mention it for ms application.....
I know its sort of not at all related and wont affect anything (maybe)...

[frosty terrace]

what is the highest paying job title for knowledge in python?

[near ocean]

that depends on the company, the country, the industry

[vapid jay]

hello

[undone willow]

oof

[vapid jay]

how can i learn to code i don't have a computer much less i only have a school computer and it wont let me download stuff on it much less i am 16 trying to save money so i can leave my toxic parent i only have 100 dollars in my saving i want to know what i should learn to code or career

[vapid jay]

this is very true!! these two terms are the same thing!! they are just called in a different way

[dense mesa]

Can you access the internet regularly?

[vapid jay]

yes or some what i managed to downlead brave on it so i can access a lot of website that were once block

@dense mesa

[dense mesa]

See if you can access an online python compiler like on programiz

[vapid jay]

what that

i plan on getting part time job so i can save and get a gaming computer @dense mesa

and yes i was able to access the programiz and the python compiler

[dense mesa]

Ok that's good, you don't need a gaming computer to program in python

Using an online compiler (ik it's not technically compiled) is good for learning the basics, then you can use Google Colab for bigger problems

@vapid jay try going to https://kaggle.com and trying the tutorials

[vapid jay]

k

[summer roost]

Look for entry level developer jobs at FinTech firms, banks, and funds. Try to parlay your existing DS and financial knowledge into a job that way - you most likely won't have some of the skills that they expect from junior developers, but you have some other skills that fresh college grads won't have. Highlight those skills.

[vapid jay]

ok varibles are hard

[shadow mist]

Thank you brother.
What about experience using Airflow, DBs and automating strategies? Is that useful?

[summer roost]

Airflow might be useful, depending on the job, but isn't particularly commonly used in SWE. Knowledge of DBs is useful. Automation is useful, but exactly how useful depends on what languages and what tools you know.

[terse lodge]

Software Dev Boot camp grad here, going on two months post-graduation with zero interviews. I’m curious if an experienced professional dev or hiring manager here would be willing to look over my resume/personal brand and give me some constructive feedback.

[peak halo]

what kind of software dev boot camp, and what experience do you have (academic, professional, etc) prior to that?

[marsh wind]

it's not uncommon to post here a resumer that is stripped of any personal details

[near ocean]

i should do that some time but literally all items on my resume can identify me

[marsh wind]

lol can't be that bad... I mean come on 🙂

[summer roost]

you don't have to anonymize your resume if you don't want to, either.

[near ocean]

heavily redacted resume soon ™️

[stray cipher]

can anyone tell me if b.tech can help me in pursuing data science?

[terse lodge]

@peak halo The boot camp was Code Fellows, Advanced Software Development in Python. I’m pivoting from a career in Special Operations as a Navy Diver. Have a Bachelor of Science in Experiential Education (essentially team building using outdoor adventure as a classroom), 20 years work experience. Started self-learning / writing Python programs about 2 years ago

[native leaf]

somehow this is inspirational.. how come you are pivoting from that career to this one, they are like polar opposites - navy diving sounds adrenaline filled and py dev is problem solving at a computer

[terse lodge]

@native leaf you’re absolutely right. My priorities are changing as my family grows. I have 2 young girls now, trying to be home for them as much as possible, stop moving every 2-3 years, and remove some risk from my day to day work life. Each field has something I love, so I’m still satisfied with the change

[native leaf]

noble cause for switching bro, if you miss the adrenaline you can always go do some activities off work

[peak halo]

have you applied to jobs that relate to your military experience? one of my coworkers has limited programming experience, but was hired because of years of experience with one of our military customers.

[terse lodge]

@peak halo I have applied to a couple defense or govt positions, most I’ve seen would require relocation, which I’m trying not to do, but may have to in the end (I just moved here about 3 months ago).

[shadow mist]

what kind of compensation structure could I expect to get if I have <1 year working as a backend python dev and 1 year working as a DS?

[peak halo]

have you tried glassdoor? you can look up salaries based on experience and region.

[shadow mist]

glassdoor says one, levels.fyi says another, wanting to get the answer from the people actually working in the field

[smoky quest]

depends on location

the structure would typically contains a base compensation in cash, and then maybe some form of equity and possibly some versions of bonuses

[shadow mist]

NYC | CHI ?

[smoky quest]

so yeah, it's more popular to have some equity in the US.
So most likely a base of cash and equity

[vapid jay]

hhi

[delicate bane]

this is one of the key reasons why i wouldnt want to work in the finance industry if i can help it, at least for me

[summer roost]

I work in FInTech and love it. That depends more on the firm than the industry.

[delicate bane]

fintech is different, i would be down to work for fintech

[shadow mist]

Fintech and working at a trading firm are different, fintech is cooler imo

[summer roost]

even within straight finance, I know of some hedge funds that are good to work for

and some investment banks that are terrible to work for.

[delicate bane]

ungodly hours is a big no-no for me if i can help it

[summer roost]

yeah, as a junior I interviewed at a bank - Morgan Stanley, maybe? - and was turned down for the job because I wasn't "passionate" enough. I told them I didn't want to work 12 to 16 hour days. 🤷

[shadow mist]

My plan is to find a remote dev job and work out of Bali, no more of this Chicago every day at the office BS

[summer roost]

I'm currently renting an AirBNB from someone who's in Bali...

Weird to hear so much about Bali in such a short time 😄

[shadow mist]

Are you in Changuu?

[summer roost]

I'm in New Hampshire right now

[smoky quest]

you may want to wait out a few years to build some more xp though.
Remote is easier once you are more senior and until then, "out of sight, out of mind" may hurt your growth.

Also do some research in terms of compensation, taxes and healthcare. Working from Bali for 1-6 months is one thing, but working there for a year may look very different

[honest pivot]

I would be curious to hear your opinions of this and fintech as these are directions I am considering (would be happy to hear via pm if you like)

[summer roost]

Most of my career has been at one company, but feel free to DM if you'd like

[wind flicker]

Good evening
Can someone explain to me how a recursive function works?, question in the help-burrito Help Channel

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to #career-advice ?

[wind flicker]

Doesn’t but it related to your name ))

[smoky quest]

It does, but it's also quite disrespectful and selfish to go on other channel(s) to spam them about your own unrelated question. So please let's keep this channel on topic.

[wind flicker]

Totally agree, but if I would just wait until someone volunteered to help it would take ages

[smoky quest]

lmao. Just for that, I put a note on your profile to not help you in the future.
Good luck!

[rustic schooner]

Im surprised theres no rule against cross posting to channels with a very different topic

[summer roost]

There is.

!rule 7

[inner wren]

Rules

7. Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

[rustic schooner]

mustve missed it when I scanned over the rules to check it - whoops

[vapid jay]

https://www.programming-hero.com/blog/Learn-Python-in-a-week.html
do you think it's possible?

[shadow mist]

If my resume says that I worked at two firms for 1 year each, does it look like job hopping?

[true harness]

maybe if you're experienced with another language, but this timeline is optimistic at best

[vapid jay]

i have experience in html and css

[plucky karma]

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

'Learning Python' is such a broad statement.

To be at a Junior level in Python Development with no background prior, you are looking at a dedicated 6 months of training and proof of credible work before I'd consider hiring you at entry level.

There are working professionals with 10+ years of experience that only code in Python, still 'learning Python'.

[summer roost]

Possibly. That's a short enough time that you should be prepared to talk about why you moved so quickly. But the fact that you're trying to switch careers goes a long way to explaining why you weren't happy at those jobs and decided to leave, and why you'd be less likely to leave the new job

[limber grove]

registered for a community college today, you mods may be asked about this a lot but is community college a good choice for 2 years and then uni after that? is is a bad idea to compact all that university stuff into two years?

[brittle thorn]

Once did afternoon and evening shift ....it made me stay in Starbucks in the mornings mostly lmao

[lime tartan]

Are there any success stories that y'all know of that people transition from any field to cs without prior experience?

[vapid jay]

Does anyone have an issue where when they type @ in a person DM's, the pop up to quick ping them doesnt show?

But for some reason, it does here

[lime tartan]

Education counts in your favor given the fact that it's in that field of logic

[vapid jay]

I'm looking for a front end web dev job, but I want to do freelancing before that. I am learning Python as my first language, and studying programming logic, but am wondering from the freelancers out there what skills they feel are most marketable

I want to start freelancing by coding webapps, so I was just wondering what tools/languages/skills you all deem appropriate for one wanting to get into this field of programming

[peak halo]

@vapid jay if you strictly want to do front end, your time would be better spent learning JavaScript and not Python.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, that makes sense. I have heard that Javascript, HTML, and CSS are key skills for front end. Thank you for the info and confirmation

[lime tartan]

Yes true, I have a bs in bio but that doesn't seem to work in my favor when I'm applying to these jobs

I've actually got denied by companies because "I should look for something in my field"

[dense mesa]

Or maybe you didn't demonstrate enough proficiency through projects/interview questions

[lime tartan]

Like a technical question or generic questions because I've taken many interviews before and I know how to navigate those waters well

None I suppose

I didn't even know about leetcode. I've just been helping out when I can in the help channels

I plan on using leetcode then. As for projects, I don't have any lol I'm just demotivated to start any

You make a fair point

[analog lark]

Is it possible to get an internship at Google without a degree?

Or is it like hard af?

[lime tartan]

Have you watched the internship 😂

Yeah

[analog lark]

The movie? Ye

Fr tho is it possible to work at Google without a degree

[dense mesa]

"Application details

What does a complete application look like?

Each job description outlines what’s necessary. Generally, a complete application includes:

A resume with a visible graduation date (month and year)

Undergraduate/graduate transcripts (in lieu of transcripts, a course list will suffice)"

[lime tartan]

I find out Friday if I get fired, I plan on doing alot more if I do and if I don't, I plan on doing what you suggest

[dense mesa]

If you have experience in a STEM field, python/data analytics/whatever roles are well within your reach. Just have a few good, relevant projects and make sure you can do a few Leetcode mediums

The easy questions on Leetcode will teach you the interview style, and start introducing data structures and algorithms for mediums

[lime tartan]

This makes me feel a little bit better, just gotta get back on the grind

[dense mesa]

Include your degree and relevant experience in your CV/resume, but beyond that just forget about it

[dense mesa]

It's completely within your reach, only need time and small but consistent effort. Learning this stuff is difficult and frustrating initially, but slowly it comes together

I can DM you 2 servers to join that will be able to help as well

[lime tartan]

Surely!

[dense mesa]

Are your DMs disabled?

[lime tartan]

I accepted your request

[shadow mist]

can someone review my resume?

[chrome yew]

Guys, i'd like to know what are your point of view of a developer's salary over the next years... You think it tends to increase or decrease?

[agile turtle]

does writing a research paper increases your chance of getting hired

[smoky quest]

it depends

[smoky quest]

there are no signs of the salaries decreasing. If anything it points upwards

[smoky quest]

Try to take the problem from the other side:
If a manager comes across a resume from a candidate with such thing, why and how would it get their attention?
And then how and why would they care about it during the job interview or for the purpose of selecting the candidate?

So that's why, it may or may not be relevant

[agile turtle]

I do not have many good projects on my GitHub, nor do I have a good education background, but I want a job asap. I have been learning computer science (cs50, Charles severance python, hands-on sci-kit learn, leetcode, fast ai ) for the past 6 months and have made some progress, and I am in urgent need of work what should I do?

[smoky quest]

aim lower like webdev or IT?

[agile turtle]

thank you

[smoky quest]

it's the old fast-cheap-good problem. If you want fast and cheap hiring, you are going to have to give in something

[delicate bane]

facts

[brittle thorn]

Like instant fast cheap coffee vs brewing lmao

[plucky karma]

Network and share your code with people.

Someone is bound to be hiring... just have to communicate in person.

[undone willow]

What some algorithms that Junior devs will be tested on when they go for a job?

I plan on studying 3 in depth enough to know what they do.

The only one I ever felt comfortable with was a very straight forward one involving array and sorting.

[smoky quest]

expect some easy/medium leetcode

[undone willow]

Thank you. And sorry for the potential repeat. I have trouble remembering all of the “must need” things I feel is expected of me if I go professional.

[smoky quest]

Basically, the equivalent of someone who just got a bs in cs.
On the algorithms, that means being able to do 1-2 easy/medium leetcode in 20-30 min.
On the skills side, demonstrated some of the skills on https://roadmap.sh/
Some projects to get the attention
On the behavioral question, the typical behavior to exhibit communication, growth, etc.

[undone willow]

Out of curiosity who made this list?

I’m going to be looking at backed atm because full stack I think should be a further goal. Not a destination atm.

[smoky quest]

which list?

[vapid jay]

?resources

[near ocean]

4x cross post and all of them are offtopic for the channel, im impressed by people sometimes

[uncut sedge]

siem

[dense mesa]

Why are you posting this in random channels?

[chrome yew]

When you look at the job offers decreasing because of more people in job market, do you think the salary tends to decrease with it?

[near ocean]

why do you think jobs are decreasing?

[dense mesa]

That doesn't make sense

[gilded valley]

What signs?

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, i am 9th grade student and i get educated in ib(aka international Baccalaureate) and in 10th grade, we are gonna select 3 lessons as high level. i am planning to select math, english and computer science. I want to be a coder specifically on AI and python, after finishing ib, which universities are the best to study in in order to become a coder who works in AI & Python

(please ping me or reply to this message if you answer to me thanks)

[hardy relic]

In which country?

[dense mesa]

If you want the "best", that's stuff like Cambridge/Oxford in the UK or Ivy leagues in the US

[granite crystal]

Can i just make whatever for a project to prove im worth hiring? - like a virtual assistant? or is this a waste of time

can i just start automating my life?

[dense mesa]

To some extent yes, the project doesn't matter as much as how you do it and what you learn

[granite crystal]

nice thanks that gives me confidence, im gonna make it technical on purpose

[ember garden]

Hey guys!
I've got a job related question. What skills do I need to get as a python developer? I've completed django course and feeling rather confident in it. I also have some back-python knowlegde, as creating discord bots, playing with different libraries, (python basics let's say). As far as I know 1 st step to get a job is to complete a code interview, so I'm digging into LeetCode and I feel....... rather stumbled. am I really going to do some binary search at my job? Is it even worth learning "Algorithm"s in python? These binary search, Recursion, dynamic programming, that's what am I going to do at my job? or it's just for completing "code interview". Thanks for advises!
Cheers

For example, let's take this job as a "template": What would they except me to know? ( except from written there ofc :) ) What does it mean "Experience with Python"? Does it mean what I mentioned before - "Algorithms and other leetcode stuff"?

[vapid jay]

what tech stack is most likely to land me a job as a Python dev?
Django/React fullstack dev?

[fickle flax]

@vapid jay try searching in you area on indeed glassdoors etc

Django i see like Instagram uses it b it those are big companies, regular companies usually i would say it depends but react is popular in my area

Flask is also common python framework in my area

[vapid jay]

Could someone solve my question ?

What does return do because I Haven't tried it yet !

[fickle flax]

Yeah so when applying to jobs need to do research on company like glasdoors. You can get familiar with the basic data structures, but no need i would say to practice 100 leer code. Only do this after getting offer for interview. Also, you can practice for basic behaviour questions only do these after getting interview offer. So focus on applying to jobs and improve your resume to get pass the ATS system then once get offer practice leetcode etc depending on job

[vapid jay]

I want to work full remote

What does return do ?

[fickle flax]

It stops the flow of execution

[near ocean]

Bro this is a careers discussion channel, ask in the appropriate channel

[vapid jay]

oh ok

[frosty terrace]

What is the career path for machine learning ?

[vapid jay]

I Am sorry.

[fickle flax]

@frosty terrace there are many different paths, no right one. However common paths are bootcamp, mentorship camp, self teaching or online courses

It all depends on your circumstances

[frosty terrace]

is starting as a data analyst a good start?

[peak halo]

where are you located? machine learning requires a lot of math in addition to programming skills, and it's difficult to obtain all that knowledge and be taken seriously without a degree

[fickle flax]

@vapid jay yeah is this your forst time working as SE? If so, can try starting on small companies on indeed glassdoor or i forgot other site but its for start up companies can just google this, and linkedin search for software internship or startup

[frosty terrace]

My plan is to start as a data analyst and move up to a data engineer, then hopefully do machine learning?

[fickle flax]

@frosty terrace you can do that but you can work as Machine learning engineer even without doing data anaylst or data engineer

[ember garden]

Thanks for an advice! Back a little bit to one of the questions: You can see they write - "Experience with Python"... so What should I know about that? For what questions should I prepare? What stack should I know? Python - basic knowledge? Different libs knowledge? Anything else?
Thanks for help.

[frosty terrace]

I have a background in business, in the NY area, data analyst jobs seem like the only time I got interviews

I tried just getting into web development.. but to be very honest, I hate web development, so I would be doing it for the money if anything and I have no regard to learning javascript

I'd rather learn C++ before I move onto another language I have no regard for

[peak halo]

I have not heard of anyone doing the analyst -> ML engineer progression that you described. though it might be possible. have you asked the companies for these interviews if they support that kind of progression?

[frosty terrace]

no but im assuming if you work with data, I don't see how that's far from machine learning. Data engineering would probably be beneficial to learn machine learning.

[peak halo]

I would ask about it next time you have an interview. there are companies who support employees in their ambitions to do lateral moves like that. but I don't see these roles as a linear promotion track.

[frosty terrace]

Is data analyst to a data engineer a path at least?

[peak halo]

I'm not sure. The distinctions also tend to be fuzzy.

[fickle flax]

@ember garden i can only speak for internships since im a student, in an internship those requirements can be be ignored for python experience because during interview students are suppose to show their willingness to learn and that they already know one lang and can transition easily to python it can be learned on job. Same for tech stack, if worked with another one not related to job description they show they can learn on job and show through projects they have experience

The focus isnt on the requirements but on the job description if we can do at least 1-3 things mentioned there we are encourages to apply. When we get interview then we practice basic data structure, movk interview for behaviour and we research company there are tools to find what tech stack a company uses if glassdoor doesnt mention it. The practice is also related to job description and requirements a bit and improve resume if no job/interview offer

[ember garden]

I see, thanks for explanation!

[shadow mist]

can someone review my resume and tell me what could be improved?
Any help would be appriciated.

[inner wren]

Hey @shadow mist!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pages). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.