career-advice

[near ocean]

Go to a college, doesnt have to be MIT

[pearl birch]

I mean my dream school is Texas tech

Or university of Houston is an option for me

But tbh I’m not sure I’m just still a freshman still trying to learn the fundamentals

[delicate bane]

both schools are fine. just realize a 4 year university isnt going to teach you everything you need to be a good software engineer; i would take advantage of the hackathons and internships, etc. during that time to help you build a good portfolio/figure out what type of developer you want to be.

again, like others said, a cs degree helps you in the job market greatly, at least in texas i find.

[plucky cypress]

University was great for teaching a good introduction to programming and explaining the theory and logic behind how it all works. But practical skills for software development, things like source control, popular packages, frameworks even good practices and readability - it didn't even touch on them

[delicate bane]

lol why did you reply to me. we're saying similar things. you should @ the other guy

[plucky cypress]

Was just adding on to what you were saying, but you make a point 😂

[chrome yew]

how much do you think companies care about the college? I mean, depending from what college you come, it is much easier to get the job?

[solid flume]

yo

[smoky quest]

Companies care a lot more about you having a degree rather than which college you got the degree at

[chrome yew]

worldwide or it's not everywhere?

[smoky quest]

worldwide as far as I know

[smoky quest]

what's your actual question?

[chrome yew]

I just wanted to know if companies care more about the college you came from or if you have a degree

[smoky quest]

however, note that you may care about it

[spiral dock]

make a good ass portfolio
degrees are jokes

[smoky quest]

Better colleges will tend to create better professional networks and give you access to some opportunities.
In some countries, it may affect slightly your salary

[smoky quest]

Why not?
What you describe is not what I see on the ground

[spiral dock]

hypotheticaly consider an individual who has a lot of experience not in a company though but with self-coded projects. I believe he has more opportunities for applying a job on top dog companie than a dude with a degree

[gilded valley]

I do not think that is remotely true. Anecdotally I know of multiple people who struggled a lot with finding a job without a degree

[spiral dock]

the thoughts are changing and degreeism will be no more

[gilded valley]

Says who or what? I don't see any great reason to think that's the trend

[smoky quest]

That would not work like this.
Their resume would just be filtered out and not get a call back

[gilded valley]

You need a degree or professional experience to not go straight in the bin

[smoky quest]

degreeism implies something is wrong with having a degree.
There are a lot of things wrong in the education system, but I fail to find anything wrong with having a more educated workforce.

Furthermore degrees do not exclude projects. Most students will have a degree along with internships and projects. That makes it very difficult for people who just have some personal projects

[gilded valley]

purely on a point of language, not about careers at all really, but

degreeism implies something is wrong with having a degree.
doesn't follow at all - it would imply that something is wrong with discriminating based on degree, not that having a degree is bad. It's not like racism or ableism imply there's something wrong with having a race or a disability

[smoky quest]

ah fair enough.

I don't think people discriminate based on degree. Rather that it's difficult to prove an equivalent level of education/ability without equivalent work experience.

[delicate bane]

speaking of internships, its tougher to get accepted into one if you arent a student/going to uni so theres that

theres apprenticeships but you also have to compete with others for the position

[tidal socket]

do companies only care about you mentioning open source contributions on your CV if you're straight out of uni, or do they still care even after you've got a job (i.e. if you're applying to a new job)?

(assuming the open source contributions are somewhat relevant to the position)

[smoky quest]

It's always something good to demonstrate your skills

[tidal socket]

ok 👍

[summer roost]

It depends a lot on your level of involvement in the project, and how many users it has, I think. On the one hand, a CPython core developer would be doing themselves a big disservice by not saying on their resume that they have commit rights on such a huge project. On the other hand, a senior developer with just a small project with few users that they're the only maintainer of probably doesn't need to mention that.

[heady bobcat]

Hey guys, what's up?
I'm a Software Engineering student and in the future I'd like to work with Machine Learning, but I'm not sure what to do at the moment. I learned the basics of Python and now I have to decide whether to follow more into development and learn OOP or follow more into data and don't care much about the development part, at first it doesn't even seem much of a doubt because it's kind of logical to go straight into data if I want to do Machine Learning, but wouldn't it be easier to start as a developer, enter the job market and then migrate to the data area? Anyway, I don't know what to do.

[peak halo]

if by "OOP" you mean "classes in Python", then you should learn that as part of your core understanding of the language. If you're talking about OOP design concepts like encapsulation, inheritance, single responsibility, etc., that isn't really something you use in data science/ML.

but there are programming design principles that are not OOP principles. I would encourage you to learn those, but then you'll just be disappointed when other data scientists don't follow them.

I spent half of this work week trying to reproduce the findings of a certain paper, and even though they were nice enough to put the source code on github, it's abysmal. there are assumptions about the locations of non-repo files hard-coded into it, code left commented-out everywhere, namespace conflicts. 😠

[heady bobcat]

I was talking about both, but it is good to know that I will use this knowledge in the future, it encourages me more to learn.

[delicate bane]

sounds like DS alright

[delicate bane]

have you looked into MLE? that seems like youd be using principles from both fields. deploying ML models isnt 100% the same as software apps

[heady bobcat]

But in your opinion, do you think it is better if I start with development and then move on to data, or go to data all at once? I know that everyone has their own opinion, I'm just looking for other points of view.

[heady bobcat]

Yes, it is my goal in the future. But I'm not very confident of what to do now at the beginning.

[delicate bane]

yeah its pretty tough to break into that field without prior exp. and theyre usually looking for more of a software dev background for MLE but ML experience def helps

[delicate bane]

im sort of at a similar crossroads tbh; i like DS and ML and ive spent most of my program exploring that. however, this semester, especially with my minor, ive gotten more into the software dev side of things and ive enjoyed it so far. i have a software dev internship this summer, so im also seeing if i will like that as well and how i feel about it during/afterwards

[heady bobcat]

So, that's why I'm a little bit torn, like, I understand that it's the most logical thing to do, to go straight to what I want to do. But sometimes the job market is not very nice, so I'm not sure if I should go straight to MLE or if it's better to start as a developer and then work my way up.

[summer roost]

internships are an extremely good way to figure out what things you're interested in and what things you're not.

[summer roost]

I doubt anyone else could give you a satisfying answer. The number of people who have done all of SWE, DS, ML, and MLE, and can help you evaluate the trade-offs between them isn't going to be very high.

[heady bobcat]

yep, I'm looking for it but here in my country it's hard to find it for any area, development or data. But I'm applying, one day it will work out.

[peak halo]

both spaces (software engineering and ML) are so large that you could spend years/your entire career focusing on one with little-or-no attention placed on the other, so regardless of which one you pick to start with, I'm not even sure where one would place an arbitrary cutoff to switch your attention to the other.

[heady bobcat]

oh no, I understand that this is something very specific and personal too, I was just trying to get the opinion of people who already have some experience in the technology area.

[summer roost]

backend software engineering is the most interesting type, and data is stupid.

if you want my biased opinion. 🙂

but there's no reason to think that what I find most interesting will be what you find most interesting. 🤷

[peak halo]

You say you're a SWE student. do you have opportunities in that program to study data science/ML formally, or do something DS/ML related in a way that's "part of" your degree (student org, project with a faculty member, etc)? because it's going to be hard to break in to the DS/AI world without some kind of tangible experience.

[vapid jay]

hi guys, is there a specific channel that I can ask advice for my CS education?

[peak halo]

this one

[vapid jay]

It's not really related to my career, is that okay?

[peak halo]

I guess this is really a channel about discussing ones life choices

yes, go ahead.

though I might be distracted now that I'm questioning my life choices.

[vapid jay]

lol thanks. I'll be studying CS this fall and I wasn't sure wether I should start a course like Harvard CS50 (which I had previous started but abandonned because I found the scratch project to be too boring XD) to get some CS fundamentals down, or I should just continue to build some projects the few months leading up to my enrollment

What do you guys think? Grind 1 or 2 projects out or start the Harvard CS50 course?

[heady bobcat]

Not specifically, I have calculus, statistics and artificial intelligence subjects that are linked to Data Science. But I wanted to take outside courses, the same way I did with Python, in the course I only learned C.

and of course I would do a lot of personal projects

[peak halo]

if you've already been accepted to the program, then you already know everything they expect you to know going in. so spend your remaining freedom doing whatever you think is fun.

[summer roost]

I vote for learning things that won't be directly covered by your degree program. You'll be paying to take some courses, so teaching yourself the same things as those courses teach in advance would be a waste of money.

[vapid jay]

Yeah good point. I just felt bad and stupid that I couldn't even complete the Scratch project for Harvard CS50 even though I already have some experience programming XD

[delicate bane]

i also think you should explore your options. what if you find an area of cs that you particularly think is interesting? then you can plan to take electives in that area to help with your learning, yknow?

[vapid jay]

Oh okay yeah good point, although I'm trying to be a generalist right now.

[peak halo]

in what course did you learn C? the AI one?

[vapid jay]

What are some things that are usually not covered by a CS program? The only thing I can think of are tools like using unix tools (e.g. grep), git, etc.

[tidal socket]

god i hope not lmao

[tidal socket]

setting up a project on GitHub with CI running building and tests maybe? idk some may cover that

[delicate bane]

imagine search algorithms in C

[tidal socket]

i don't want to 😭

[peak halo]

I'm imagining re-implementing numpy just to do a forward pass.

[summer roost]

sure, tools, but also domains that you might not immediately get to - maybe learning how to make an Android app, or something?

maybe playing with an Arduino and seeing if you like hardware level stuff?

[vapid jay]

oh good idea. Btw do you think I should start the harvard cs50 course just so I can hand in the Scratch project? It's bugging me that I couldn't even spend a bit of time to learn Scratch a bit to make a game

[summer roost]

maybe trying to make something like a browser plugin...

[vapid jay]

oh okay yeah I haven't really made any hardware projects yet.

[vapid jay]

Is that related to web dev? I found that I don't really like web dev that much, but it seems that a lot of internships are mostly web dev related so I might be missing out

[tidal socket]

i couldn't comment on that, never taken it or learned scratch

[heady bobcat]

No, I'm sorry. English is not my native language, I meant that I learned C in the programming language subject, the AI subject I haven't had yet, it will be towards the end of the course.

[summer roost]

depends on the plugin. Some would be web-dev-y, some wouldn't. There are a lot of web dev jobs, but there's a lot of non-web-dev jobs, too. There's a lot of web dev jobs because even pretty small companies are expected to have a web presence.

[vapid jay]

oh okay no worries. It's a block-based "programming" language usually for kids but I guess it was used in the course since it assumes no prior programing experience.

[peak halo]

it sounds like you're using "course" to mean "curriculum". but I'll try to interpret your statements more generally.

[vapid jay]

Ah that makes sense, but for a browser plugin I would probably need to learn some javascript right?

[summer roost]

yep

javascript is used extensively in web dev, but also in mobile app dev, and desktop app dev, and a bit on the backend... it's a quite popular language.

[vapid jay]

oof okay. I was thinking of learning Java during the summer though for the intro to cs courses in some unis. Maybe I should learn javascript too at the same time (unless that's a bad idea?)

I know the syntax a bit, but I mostly program in Python so idk if I'll get confused if I learn java + javascript (yeah ik they're not the same language despite the name lol)

[delicate bane]

i recently started learning javascript, and i just have to say if you know python, you should be more than fine

ofc there are specifics but the MDN web docs are super, duper good

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/

[vapid jay]

Would it cause problems if I learn javascript (very little experience) and java (also very little experience) concurrently? I heard that it's best to learn one language at a time

[heady bobcat]

yes, that's what I wanted to say. Thanks 😆

[tidal socket]

no, but i think you'll likely prefer one over the other, quite strongly, so you might give up the one you prefer less (JS and Java are very different)

(my "no" assumes you already know some other language quite well, and have some foundations)

[vapid jay]

o i c. Yeah my programming fundamentals are alright, but I kind of enjoy Java more and I'm trying to get better at OOP

[tidal socket]

what's so good about OOP?

[delicate bane]

hmm i have also heard the same, especially if you know less than 4 languages. apparently its been said that around that number give or take, where afterwards, you can go "oh this new language is like this language but with these idiomatic patterns, etc."

[vapid jay]

I guess it's a paradigm that it's good to know since it's pretty much industry standard, and I'm quite new to it and Python doesn't really force me to use it unlike Java

[delicate bane]

"something something mental framework", but i cant really speak on this so maybe lets wait for someone more senior to give their input

[vapid jay]

ah okay so maybe I should just focus on java and learn javascript later for a hackathon or smt

[tidal socket]

i think if you're going to learn a language, you should find a project you'd be motivated to complete in that language - that might be in Java or JS

[summer roost]

I'd never recommend trying to learn two languages at the same time.

[peak halo]

what a great topic for #pedagogy!

[tidal socket]

what happened to #advanced-discussions?

[summer roost]

it was renamed to #internals-and-peps many moons ago

[tidal socket]

that sounds more official tho :/ now i can't go ask random advanced questions about atomics

[vapid jay]

yeah okay screw javascript lol I'll just focus on Java for now

[summer roost]

even after that point, I wouldn't try learning two languages at once. I'd still try to get comfortable in language N+1 before trying to pick up language N+2

[vapid jay]

Btw what are the most common types of projects that people put on their resume? Usually web apps right?

[delicate bane]

that makes sense tbh. youre only making it harder on yourself trying to learn 2 at once i believe.

[summer roost]

resumes are a form of advertisement. The projects you should put on it are the ones that you think will do the best job of convincing the companies that you're applying to that you're the right candidate.

if you're applying for a job writing device drivers and you list a bunch of web dev projects on your resume, they will probably not be helpful to you - and might be harmful.

[vapid jay]

Right, but what happens if I don't have an array of finished projects (yet) that I can pick from, I'm kind of left with what I have to put on my resume right?

[summer roost]

eh, not really. Presumably the projects that you decide to build or work on will be projects in areas that you find interesting, and the jobs you decide to apply to will be in areas that you find interesting, so there should be plenty of overlap

if you find yourself interested enough in kernel driver development that you start applying to jobs in that area, it's probably because you tried some projects in that area and found it interesting

[tidal socket]

is this a hint that you know how to write drivers?

[summer roost]

I made some small kernel modules for an internship back in college. I could pick it up reasonably easily, I'm sure.

much more easily than I could pick up web development 🙂

[tidal socket]

ah linux :/ nvm i was gonna ask about windows drivers

[summer roost]

oh. Who cares about Windows? 🤷

[tidal socket]

me, cuz they screwed me over and i need ring 0 access to prove it

[vapid jay]

oh I c. If I enjoy making command line based programs and not web apps, what type of internships should I be applying for? What type of stuff do you do with "software developer/software engineer" internships?

Like those general titled internships (not the specific kinds that say like front end engineer)

[lapis bison]

I would like to get involved into the data sciences field, any recommendation?

[summer roost]

CLI based stuff is more typically used by developers than regular old users. So, generally, backend development, possibly with a focus on tools or libraries

[delicate bane]

one of the interns at my company does CLI stuff but she is specificially a SRE intern

i thought about asking her some more questions, but then i realized i dont think im interested in that type of stuff

[summer roost]

yeah, SRE would fall firmly in "tools for developers", I think

[vapid jay]

oh I c. What about "SDE intern"? What do they work on?

[peak halo]

what education and career experience, if any, do you already have? if you don't have education, do you plan to?

[summer roost]

that could be just about anything. You'd need to look at the specific details in the job posting, since the job title is pretty vague.

[vapid jay]

oh okay alright mb just seems like a lot of web dev youtubers call themselves software engineers instead of specifying web developper or smt

[summer roost]

sure. Of course they do, it sounds more prestigious 🙂

[lapis bison]

Well I’m just starting with the process, I would like to learn data sciences and get into a position where I can apply for entry level job at a bank or a trading corporation.

[peak halo]

so you're planning to apply to undergraduate programs? what country are you in?

[tidal socket]

like... u wanna work at jane street?

cuz if u get in, tell me how 😂

[delicate bane]

you should focus your learning on finance projects then. it helps to pick a domain if you know the industry youre interested in.

[lapis bison]

I already graduated from college with a computer sciences degree, but I didn’t took any data sciences course.

[lapis bison]

Lol I wish 🥲

[peak halo]

if this is in the US, and you already finished your degree but didn't do anything data science related, I am not sure what to suggest that isn't grad school.

[summer roost]

How is your Unix experience?

[lapis bison]

Got it, thanks for the advice sir.

[tidal socket]

api wise, or tool wise? api wise, pretty good, tool wise, good enough to get around the terminal (since i use it a fair amount)

[summer roost]

just from the POV of backend stuff at banks or fintech companies - most companies, honestly - is much more likely to be Unix than Windows.

but it sounds like you've got that base reasonably well covered.

[tidal socket]

i have everything they want "technically" covered 🤷 that's not my issue (although not sure what is, maybe i'll revamp my cv)

[delicate bane]

you dont have to call me sir. im still on this learning journey myself.

that said, stelercus brings up a viable option. grad school can be good for pivots in careers (aka like me) and for focusing on a particular topic

[tidal socket]

although it is jane street, and no one ik who applied got in, so there's that too

[vapid jay]

btw, I'm currently working on a web app for my school (so sort of as a contractor), and tbh I've just been using tutorials to build a baseline project (I adjust the code accordingly) since it's notfun making a web app and I only have around 2ish months left to finish the project. I 100% don't like using tutorials (my first project I made sure not to use youtube tutorials), but I feel like for this project it's kinda whatever and I'm just trying to get it over with. However, would it be bad to put this web app project on my resume even though I used youtube tutorials to help me build the app? The tutorials were about making a blog website but what I'm making with the help of the tutorials is like a portal for students (login, check some info, maybe process and transaction?) so it's not like I'm copying everything and making the exact same thing (differences in ui, the goal of the web app, the pages, etc.)

[lapis bison]

Thanks for the answer 👌

[delicate bane]

ofc there are financial reasons to not do grad school, but if youre strongly motivated by learning and education and being around others that are the same, i think it can help

[tidal socket]

just because i switched to windows that one time in #c-extensions doesn't mean i use it normally - i'm 90% on linux 😂

[summer roost]

👍

[tidal socket]

is grad school a masters?

[summer roost]

no, listing that is totally fine. Searching for something that someone else did that's similar to the thing you're trying to do and figuring out how to adapt it to what you want to do is a big part of the job.

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[vapid jay]

have you worked with interns before? I'm curious if the new generation of programmers are aware of UNIX since it seems like a good chunk of new programmers focus only on programming, and don't really care about UNIX.

[tidal socket]

are you sure you want a share a cv here @vapid jay ? (if you do, make sure you remove personal info)

[vapid jay]

Hi Everyone! Nice to meet you all. I am a Senior Full-Stack Engineer with over 7 years of experience in web development. I am full-time available and looking for a new opportunity at the moment. Best regards, Cheng.

[delicate bane]

either masters or phd yeah

[tidal socket]

ah k

[summer roost]

we don't allow people to advertise jobs here. This channel isn't for recruiting.

[vapid jay]

Oh, sorry.

[vapid jay]

okay thanks

[tidal socket]

kinda curious, how's your linkedin? do you get spammed by recruiters or nah? (that's kinda the impression reddit gives, at least for seniors)

[summer roost]

Interns and junior level devs tend to have at least a passing familiarity with Linux. A lot of university courses will strongly suggest you use Linux (since a lot of developer tools are easier to deal with on Unix from the CLI than on Windows or Mac from a GUI).

But even if not, it's not so hard to pick up those skills. Deep Unix knowledge takes quite a while to acquire, but simple command line basics don't take very long.

[vapid jay]

I've used Linux before, although I'm currently using a Mac. Would I run into issues considering that macs don't come with GNU core utils (which seems to be a bit better than their BSD counterparts) in my university courses?

[summer roost]

nah.

[vapid jay]

yeah I'm hoping to slowly improve my UNIX knowledge. I'm never touching cmd or powershell on windows again.

[summer roost]

GNU stuff has some more features, but those features are rarely necessary.

[vapid jay]

Ah I c. That's great to hear. Thanks for your advice and help

[somber pewter]

Hey, for those working in tech/cs:

What are good late-highschool jobs to get started in the space? Of course I don't expect to land any serious positions in highschool, though I'd like to know what options I have in terms of building my early-career resume with positions more tech-focused rather than something unrelated like cashier or whatnot.
At the moment, something in BestBuy's GeekSquad seems to be the best choice; very very entry-level while still being focused on tech.

What other options might I have?

[vapid jay]

Not really a job @somber pewter

But contributing to Open Source could be more beneficial than an IT desk job

Like I think getting good at programming and not having a job is better than something like BestBuy

Another thing you could do is like be a summer camp TA/teacher for a code camp for little kids or smt

Something that you can show that you are somewhat proficient that you can teach people programing

[summer roost]

tutoring could be a good option.

[paper bay]

what are requirements to get an internship?

[buoyant seal]

Having CS degree or somewhere at the end of it, while showing good aptitude to programming in general and having good enough scores?
Internship is just Junior without chosen specialization usually.
So better to get as much grasp as possible to generic stuff
Learning git
Data structures and algorithms
OOP
OSI model and etc

Everything u get during uni with a bit of touch on top of it, should be enough

[serene verge]

Yo people, I would appreciate some advice/direction check for my current cybersec learning path. I will try to make it short.
Background: Fullstack development for around 4 years. Comfortable with linux, participated in CTFs and did some boxes on htb/thm, and been wanting to professionally shifting to a cybersec career.

I've been told that to get into security I need 3 fundamental things first. 1. Deep understanding of computers (the low level os, kernel, c, asm, cpu kind of stuff) 2. Deep level understanding of networking. 3. Understanding of security concepts/fundamentals itself. So I decided to learn the contents of ComTIA's Network+ (It seemed like a good broad entry point to networks for someone who knew nothing beyond the OSI model) to address point 2 and then planning to follow it up with studying the contents of Sec+ to address point 3. Then for point 1, and after I am done with net+ and sec+, I think I will need to do some idk, lots of research, playing around in IDA and ghidra and sifting through lots of C and Cpp code to get comfortable with that low-level world.
Question: Is this a valid plan? Will this get my anywhere in terms of basic knowledge and understanding of cybersec? I know I am asking for too much but I am slightly confused on whether what I am doing is right. Thank you.

[vapid jay]

Hello so I have been coding for about only a month now and I am interested in becoming a Software Engineer. My question is what are some programs or languages I should learn? (Apart from Python).

[serene verge]

Hello!

• Since you are still early in your learning, never get stuck in that loop of asking which languages to learn. All languages are useful and has their own use cases and scenarios they excel at. And I personally wasted a lot of time, picking bits from here and there and ended no where. Pick one language and learn it extremely well, master it and get comfy with its sharp corners. You said you are learning Python right now, that's great. Stick with it for a year or more and get super good with it.
• Read other people's source code, help other people and teach them what you know, contribute to open source projects in your language. All of these help a lot in mastering your language.
• Concepts first. Understand that syntax and these "cute" features in programming languages are nothing but convenience. What really matters is that underlying concepts and your understanding of them. So, while learning Python for example, you want to focus on the concepts: What is a conditional? What is an array? What does mutable and immutable means? What are data structures? Modules? Environment? Compiled vs Interpreted? You will learn all of these as you learn Python and it will be difficult because its your first time getting introduced to these ideas. But no worries, because its super worth your investment.
• You got your ONE language learnt and you got your concepts right. Now what? Now you will notice that these concepts easily transition with you to any other language. You are able to pick a new language in a matter of weeks if not days. Because you got your concepts right and you are able to compare any new language to your already mastered language.
• Learn git and get comfortable with it, you will need it everywhere as a software engineer.
• Learn software engineering frameworks/methodologies. Agile/SCRUM methodology, these are simple frameworks that provide guidelines on how to develop better software especially when your work in a company and with many other developers.

[vapid jay]

this probably was the best response I could of wanted. Thank you

[pseudo bone]

Hi my question is that i am applying for jobs in a company i am applying for position that even remotely mention a skill or qualification i have. for example : degree in computer science
my question: Are there any side effects to this ? can this approach backfire somehow?

[peak halo]

so, you are applying for jobs that have requirements that you do not meet? it is very unlikely that you would be contacted about those applications, but the person looking over it will probably just delete it and move on (ie no negative consequences per se).

[delicate bane]

the side effect is you might accidently get into a job that you absolutely hate

[pseudo bone]

what if its a position in the same branch that is also offering a position that i am qualified for. would the recruiter be the same person ? and wouldnt it create a bad image in his mind?

[coarse skiff]

Why do I hear boss music?

[peak halo]

for what it's worth, I basically carpet bombed my current company with applications, including some positions that in retrospect were obviously out-of-reach. the HR person remarked that I had "applied to a number of positions", but he didn't seem to mind.

[pseudo bone]

😂

thnx! this helped

[peak halo]

for the record, it might ultimately be a matter of the disposition of those involved in the hiring process. it could be different everywhere.

[buoyant seal]

this. when i chose the company I wish to be in, I started to contact more than one HR from it

[wise spoke]

Hi all, I was wondering what the best way (resources) to learn AI using Python; is there any books, videos, courses or modules that you guys can recommend me with?

My current coding proficiency is college-level (A-Level Computer Science).

[vapid jay]

Im a high school senior about to head off to university. Im hoping to get some sort of internship/thing for over summer. Im in Upstate NY, if anyone has any recomendatiosn please

[summer roost]

try asking in #data-science-and-ml - this channel is about jobs and careers.

[wise spoke]

@summer roost Thank you 🙂

[buoyant seal]

I would recommend going over the tutorials and participating in projects at https://www.kaggle.com/ with suggesting to start from the beginner friendly intro project: hand writing symbols recognition challenge like this one https://www.kaggle.com/c/digit-recognizer check already written tutorials for that

[viscid saddle]

what jobs can you get with bython

[dense mesa]

Not many but you can get more with python

[viscid saddle]

lmao

[wise spoke]

Thank you so much 🙂

[viscid saddle]

how many jobs can you get with python

[summer roost]

usually one at a time

[peak halo]

it's more important that you are competent in a specific domain of programming that happens to use Python. The two most common ones of those are web development and data science, the latter of which is quite difficult to break into.

[summer roost]

most programming jobs require you to know multiple languages

ones that use only Python would be pretty rare.

[peak halo]

though one wonders if this means "one general purpose language (potentially Python) and some number of domain-specific languages (however you define that)"

[delicate bane]

stelercus i was talking to some of my classmates, some of who are SWEs, and they say going from DS to Developer is a bad career move vs. going from Developer to DS, and idk what to say about that

[peak halo]

why did they say that? did they say that DS pays more?

[delicate bane]

that was reason number one. reason number two they gave was it tends to be more satisfying since you are closer to the "product"/deliverable.

idk anything anymore tbh. i feel like i like both for dif reasons.

they also dont know what being a DS is like so i dont think they are qualified to say that tbh

its that "the grass is always greener on the other side" saying, yknow?

[smoky quest]

They are both valid career paths, and both pretty highly paid. It's also more difficult to compare the pays since DS is a lot more defined than a developer and the market is rapidly changing.

In my experience, DS is actually more removed from the product as they only care about specific models, which have then to be handed off to the dev for the deployment. Developers of the product would be involved all around the product and sometimes in close contact with pm/users. At the end of the day, it's a team sport but with regards to being close to the users/products it would be difficult to argue DS is closer to it.

[delicate bane]

yeah thats kinda my opinion/understanding as well but i didnt want to say anything to them, mostly bc of my personality.

[smoky quest]

If you have to choose, don't specifically look at the salary now. They are both great paths and if you are good, the money will follow.
So I would recommend to use other factors as deciding factors.
There are also different flavors of different DS/ML. The one I personally like the best is the kind where it's embedded in the team (like a squad). That gives the opportunity to engineers (mostly backend) to leverage dual competencies and not only work on the model aspects but also how to take it to production. It generally works out well since we aren't doing research but still need to stay on top of the latest and greatest, while being able to directly see the impact on the users. To note though that it's more difficult to find engineers with the chops to handle that.
I would find the DS/ML to be quite boring if it was in a dedicated team, which also suffers from disconnection from the not only the product but also engineering

From a historical perspective, I do see a lot of similarities between DS/ML now and the big data from 10 years ago. It was new and everyone wanted to become a big data engineer because it was rare and difficult to find experienced engineers in that area.

[delicate bane]

very insightful, recursive. im glad to know that theres opportunities for dual competencies if thats what youre interested in. yeah, i think ill just follow my interests for now and see where that leads and reevaluate when the time comes

[summer roost]

possibly, yes. There's often one "main" language.

[verbal hollow]

Anyone interested in quantum computing???

[summer roost]

some people are, yes.

[coarse ore]

IF YOUR INTERESTED IN A DEVELOPER / ROBLOX STUDIO DEVELOPER DM ME.

[peak halo]

WHY

[coarse ore]

i need help

[peak halo]

if you have a question, try using the help system; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[coarse ore]

for my games, websites, more.

[eternal mist]

To be a machine learning engineer, are data science skills necessary

I really can’t choose between a software engineer, data scientist, or machine learning engineer

I think I want a job that specializes in computer vision, so something like image processing and face recognition.

But I also want to learn augmented reality as it connects with CV but that is something later on when technology is advanced and it will be a lucrative career

[eternal mist]

Or can I be a mix of all?

[vapid jay]

!eval a = [1,2,3,4,5] print(a) # original list first_element=a[0] for i in range(1, len(a)): a[i-1] = a[i] a[len(a)-1] = first_element print(a) # shifted list by -1

[inner wren]

@vapid jay :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
002 | [2, 3, 4, 5, 1]

[honest plume]

guys any recomendation for like an app or website for writing down and maybe a whiteboard feature for virtual technical interviews

[hearty island]

smart move, were you trying to show that your skillset is applicable to many different roles and that was why the company should hire you?

[honest pivot]

This is not always a smart move, would depend a lot on the company and the people involved. Part of the frustrating thing with the hiring process is having to guess what everyone really wants.

[graceful mason]

They absolutely are - you need to know how to find, prepare, and present data to design and train a model to use it

[peak halo]

Nope, I was just desperate, ngl. So I just applied to every ostensibly entry level data scientist-adjacent position, and they ended up slotting me for one that related to my experience.

[hearty island]

ah, i see. still a smart move tho. i do know you have a ton of experience from that research position back at your college.

highly technical linguistic stuff right?

[peak halo]

The distinction between data science and AI is fuzzy at times. If you want to me an ML engineer, don't discount material that you perceive as falling under data science, as it's probably relevant.

[hearty island]

there is a general misconception of ML and AI out there and it is actively harming businesses. it takes power to make power and if you ask me businesses are running themselves dry actively wasting money on the latest algo for the sake of marketing.

the computing power they're using must take significant resources and not to mention computer chips are starting to delay production due to what's going on in current events (google search: reuters computer chips stocks)

by general misconception, i mean to echo what's been said in the #data-science-and-ml channel. a lot of the problems businesses face now can be solved with statistical models that have existed for years. there's zero reason to throw neural networks at a problem as simple as predicting how many people will buy your product for example. it's essentially throwing pasta at a wall and seeing if it sticks.

that's at least what i'm seeing as someone in business analytics

[honest pivot]

Just wait till they start throwing quantum computers at it

[hearty island]

oh they already have

quantum computing is the next big thing at ibm, it's their brand now. my friend works there and he says it's legit the only thing they talk about. i don't understand what chess moves they're playing. it's like their whole army is just pawns moving one square up and only capturing diagonally.

not only that, but also, ibm has faced some very interesting age discrimination lawsuits recently.

[honest pivot]

IBM's age discrimination practices have been well-known for decades

[hearty island]

yep. my point is it's getting worse. companies are far more blatant with it now than ever.

i have a hunch that remote work might have influenced that.

[honest pivot]

How so?

[hearty island]

well, from what i've noticed (anecdotal + supported by a BBC article that I saw a couple weeks ago) -> people feel increasingly isolated and stressed than before -> company relationships are frayed -> HR is stressed due to filling quotas -> constant new ideas are desired because we crave instant results as a society -> old ideals don't work bc they are "old school" -> thus causing companies to prefer very young fresh-faced workers out of college.

take me for example, i got an internship at a rather large company by essentially bluffing.

[honest pivot]

I think ageism is mostly driven by the desire to pay lower salaries to people who are just out of college and don't know any better yet.

I'm not sure if remote work specifically has anything to do with it.

[hearty island]

i think remote work is a contributing factor, but you are probably right with the fact it's mostly driven by lower salaries. i don't like the trend i'm currently seeing tho.

[peak halo]

extend your skills towards what goal?

try asking in #data-science-and-ml

Please ask in #data-science-and-ml. Otherwise it's off-topic for this channel.

[hearty island]

good questions stel

[dense mesa]

Machine learning involved working with data

[jade coral]

where is off topic channel?

[dense mesa]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[olive jewel]

Hi

[graceful ether]

Im interested in learning Python but Im not sure for what..

Are these three certs from Free Code Camp building on each other or are they totally different?

https://www.freecodecamp.org/learn/scientific-computing-with-python/
vs
https://www.freecodecamp.org/learn/data-analysis-with-python/
vs
https://www.freecodecamp.org/learn/machine-learning-with-python/

[dense mesa]

Quite different

[graceful ether]

ok

[graceful ether]

how?

[dense mesa]

Because they're on different subjects

[vapid jay]

!eval

[inner wren]

Missing required argument

code

[delicate bane]

Im interested in learning Python but Im not sure for what..
maybe you can start learning the basics and then decide where you want to go from there. it also depends on if this is more for a hobby or if you have future career goals

[dense mesa]

Please don't run commands here

[old silo]

Hello i am looking for a part time work from home job ,i am a undergraduate from india, i am not able to find any site :(,i know python and MERN stack

||Sorry if this is not relatable to channel ,i am not sure it is related or not ||

[verbal hollow]

Did u know u can use python to interface with quantum computers right now????

[delicate bane]

have you tried fiverr or upwork

[dense mesa]

See the pinned messages/channel description, recruiting isn't allowed

[dense mesa]

It's definitely cool but not suitable for this channel necessarily, try #python-discussion or #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[chrome yew]

Does anyone know if this is a good course? It's from Udemy. Or would you recommend another one?

[gritty rivet]

A bit off topic, try #python-discussion ... But if you want a free alternative, maybe try this: https://www.freecodecamp.org/learn/scientific-computing-with-python/ or check the !resources post for many others

[chrome yew]

sorry, I came here because #python-discussion doesn't allow images. Thanks for the answer btw

[vapid jay]

Hello, does anyone have experience with universities of software engineering in the eu? My criteria is cheapness. Bonus points if within 750km of Budapest.

[dense mesa]

Budapest has a few universities for CS right?

[vapid jay]

It does, but I wouldn't like to be a part of the country for now

[dense mesa]

Germany seems like a decent choice in that case

[smoky quest]

non-capital cities should also be cheaper

[delicate bane]

have you considered scholarships and/or apprenticeships too?

[smoky quest]

Whether in Italy, France, Spain or other (although, I haven't checked for the 750km constraint)

(yeah, way beyond the 750km)

[vapid jay]

I did check some bigger cities and Venice, basically all of Austria, Bavaria, Czechia and southern Poland are within distances I can drive while keeping my sanity, but I mostly need exact names or a platform where I could easily find names since I really don't know where to look outside hungary.

[dense mesa]

It sounds like a question better suited for CS Career Questions EU

[delicate bane]

yeah probably

[drifting burrow]

Automate the boring stuff with Python. In Udemy too. Check carefully the preview and plenty of free resources. The best to begin with

[frosty terrace]

For entry level data analyst or web developer, what is a reasonable starting salary?

[chrome yew]

thanks, i'll take a look

[dense mesa]

Depends on location

[frosty terrace]

im looking for remote, would it still matter? just need an idea of what's considered too much

[smoky quest]

Compensation is based on your location, skills and level of experience. So it does matter

[frosty terrace]

so for a remote job, why would someone hire someone in NY for 100k when they can hire someone in the middle of no where for 65k

[smoky quest]

• Culture
• TZ
• Easier to meet
• Local market
• Potential additional overhead costs (HR, taxes, specific laws, etc.)

The converse is also true: why would I pay 100k someone in the middle of nowhere when I could hire other engineers for 65k in that same location

[frosty terrace]

so when im looking for a job should i search for my location, then remote?

[smoky quest]

These are orthogonal concerns:

• There are local jobs to your area as well as remote jobs
• Your compensation will be based on your location, regardless of the local/remote job

[frosty terrace]

I'm really conflicted. I want to become a software engineer, but it seems impossible without a degree. So my only options are being a data analyst or web developer. I'm having difficulty with finding any web development jobs, especially any entry level ones. For Data analyst, I did get a few calls here and there, but I think I'm asking for way too much maybe? Most are offering 65k, I'm pushing for 75k. Also I'm not sure if I'd actually like being a data analyst. Any tips or insight will greatly be appreciated.

In honesty, I am working on projects that I will eventually sell and I might make a business for myself before anyone ever considers me being a software engineer. Which sucks, but that seems like my long term goal now.

[delicate bane]

i could pay 75k-80k for an entry-level data scientist here

thats just our market though

[frosty terrace]

yeah but I think no one in remote wants to pay that, so maybe I will search around my own area first before I branch out to a lower wage. Remote is an absolute definite, especially since I'm currently working remote.

I live in the NYC area, I assume that is one of the peaks in the US

[delicate bane]

yeah i would keep trying if i were you

sometimes if you have experience in that particular industry, you can leverage that for higher pay

[summer roost]

How old are you? What's your current job experience?

and what is your level of education?

[frosty terrace]

I'm in my 30s, got a bachelor's in business management, right now im a pricing analyst

[summer roost]

pricing analyst in NYC - are you applying to SWE jobs at banks and finance companies?

[frosty terrace]

no, im using indeed, linkedin, and glassdoor

what is SWE?

[summer roost]

Software Engineer. Ideally, for a mid-career switch, you want to find companies that would benefit from your existing skills. Targeting your search towards FinTech companies will give you a much better chance of landing a job given your existing finance expertise.

[frosty terrace]

hmm, ok ill look into it, thanks. Would you say applying at websites is better than these other job sites?

[summer roost]

yes. Recruiters might be able to help, too. But if I were you, I'd be applying for junior developer roles at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Bloomberg, Thompson Reuters, etc, etc

without a degree, you're missing one major selling point that other junior developers have. But you have some major selling points that they don't - a decade of experience as a pricing analyst, and a business management degree.

Your best chance of landing a software developer job is finding a company that values those selling points more than it values the CS degree you don't have.

[frosty terrace]

thanks, you've been very helpful

[honest plume]

guys anyone ever went through a technical.interview for software developer position.. got one coming up any tips

[dense mesa]

Leetcode

[unique quiver]

Is chemistry a requirement to become a data scientist?
I searched through a couple websites and apparently you need it, but why

[marsh wind]

absolutely not required. No idea where you looked but it's wrong 🙂

[dense mesa]

If you're looking at Indian websites, I've heard anecdotes here of them having completely random and unrelated requirements

Please delete this and go to #❓｜how-to-get-help

[slim willow]

no one's helping

[dense mesa]

Sorry to hear that, but please delete the message and keep trying. This is a channel for careers discussion

[dense mesa]

No, chemistry is not a requirement at all

[safe loom]

So, how would a technical recruiter evaluate someone who's good in design, problem solving and reliability in Python but doesn't have all the language knowledge (like some modules I've never really used)

Not sure if this is a good omen or bad omen (also I'm not a Git expert and I only know how to do the classic pull/push and solving merge conflicts)

[dense mesa]

Interview questions etc. I don't think an online test can really show that stuff

[safe loom]

Besides I only had a short window of time to reply to Python / Git trivia and I almost never use other flags on casual git commands.

[gaunt elbow]

git on a coding test?

I've read some ridiculous stuff but that one takes the cake

[near ocean]

why not, git is definitely more important than knowing how to reverse a linked list

[dense mesa]

Why?

[gaunt elbow]

because you can learn 99% of your daily git usage in one day

why would you test someone on something that's so quick to learn?

not saying it's like this for all the dev jobs out there

[true harness]

you can learn many algorithms in a day, yet they're still tested

[gaunt elbow]

you definitely cannot learn many algos in 1 day unless you've studied algo for a while

learning the big O notation alone, in a rigorous way, would be many hours

[true harness]

uh, no?

[gaunt elbow]

algo --> math --> proofs

definitely no

of course if you're an algo expert you can learn many in one afternoon

but you can learn most useful git commands in 1 afternoon if you've never used any code versioning before

[near ocean]

takes literally 3 mins to learn you to reverse a linked list or traverse a tree

[true harness]

proving the time complexity of anything but the most complex algorithms takes very little time, especially if you're just doing best and worst, not average case

[gaunt elbow]

defining time complexity alone is something completely non trivial

but yes very often it's very quick to prove that some algo is O(n) or whatever

I just meant I think it's a red flag if a company tests you on git, unless they are suspicious that you've lied or something similar

just one more take on the general opinion that the interview process for programming jobs is very flawed

[near ocean]

rather be tested on things i'm going to be using than theory i'll never touch again in my life

[true harness]

[gaunt elbow]

true

wish they did more "tests" on design or general approaches to problems

I see a lot of either far fetched theory or just "what is this" type questions

some of it is fine but I've done it in the past and deeply regret it (as the one interviewing)

[true harness]

is it more complicated than "the number of elementary steps an algorithm takes"

[gaunt elbow]

yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation see formal definition

[true harness]

big O is not time complexity, it's a way to express it. and besides, the definition of big O, Theta, and Omega are trivial for the average person who has completed high school

[gaunt elbow]

sorry that's the one I meant

however "the number of elementary steps an algorithm takes" is not a definition

it's something that motivates a definition

[true harness]

how can you say something is "not a definition", isn't it true by definition

[true harness]

what would you say the definition is, then?

[gaunt elbow]

big O, applied to algos

"the number of elementary steps an algorithm takes" is as much a definition as "a continuous function is one that does not change abruptly"

it's a good explanation, whatever you want to call it, but not a definition

[peak halo]

sounds like this has turned into an #algos-and-data-structs discussion?

[gaunt elbow]

sorry I'll shut up

[true harness]

I can make it more rigorous if you want, but seeing as you don't know the difference between time complexity and big O notation, it probably would not mean anything

to steler's point, we should move there

[delicate bane]

literally this

[near ocean]

when i did my technical call/test they asked me to solve problems they were in the middle of solving, nothing hard, but relevant to the task
i wasnt asked about linked lists or graphs or trees because those werent relevant to the job at all

[dusky river]

interviews depends of the job actually

if you're going into pure engineering, they'll ask you this kind of question

[delicate bane]

i think the problem is in many cases (many, many cases) the interview questions dont match the job responsibilities

[dusky river]

i don't think they'll ask you the djisktra algorithm if you're going for a front-end job 😭

probs for backend tho

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> huge hulking advert

[analog sun]

Hello, please don't post job openings or advertisements. Thanks

[raw eagle]

Hey sorry, is there another place that I can?

[dapper depot]

not on our server, no

[raw eagle]

Ok I tried deleting the post, but it's still there. A job -posting channel may be a good resource for everyone in this field looking to get their feet in the door.

[rain garden]

hey u

[dense mesa]

That's a really subjective way of looking at it, an online test at least informs a recruiting team whether the candidate can appropriately Google for help

[dense mesa]

It would get spammed very quickly, introduce legal and ToS issues to the server, and there's already websites that are for this if you check the channel description/pinned messages

[frosty terrace]

Are certifications good to have? Any you can recommend?

[graceful mason]

I'd say not knowing any git is a pretty big red flag when hiring someone - if it's so quick to pick up why haven't they bothered to learn it yet? How do they organise their projects without it?

[gaunt elbow]

true

but could happen, imagine one has only used SVN so far

I just would say that in regards to code versioning a question would suffice, no need for a "test"

[graceful mason]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[pastel thunder]

when is the best time to give gre?

should i try multiple times?
for fall 2023 admissions

[dense mesa]

@pastel thunder this channel is for python career discussion, please ask in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[red pagoda]

How hard is Javascript

Should i attempt learning it

[unique quiver]

They say it's because of engineering and my mom's forcing me to take it

[unique quiver]

Not that hard, it's one of most recommended starter languages

I'm Nicki Minaj 😎 ✨

[pastel thunder]

May i have your autograph please

[red pagoda]

I thought python was the best for starters

[gaunt elbow]

python is the worst for starters if by starting you mean professionally

[unique quiver]

Find me at your local walmart behind the dumpsters

[pastel thunder]

Yes ma'am sure

[red pagoda]

Im new to programming and Google tells me its the best so bikidibambo

[gaunt elbow]

I'm exagerating

[unique quiver]

That's what many people say but it takes years to get a hold on it, start with something easier like HTML and JavaScript 🚶‍♂️

[gaunt elbow]

I mean this: python allows you to write code that works without knowing the basics of what objects/methods/types... are

which is fine at home, not so much in "real" projects

[unique quiver]

Yeah, python basics are a good starting point

[red pagoda]

Is it anygood if i kinda master problem solving

[red pagoda]

Ur a 9th grader really?

[gaunt elbow]

problem solving is the hard part so good

[red pagoda]

Can i get like a part time job ?

[gaunt elbow]

but people skip the "easy" part: readable code, annnotated

and that makes a difference, especially with large-ish projects

that's why I said python is not good for starters when starting = professionally

[red pagoda]

Lets just say i spend 1 - 2 hours daily for say 5-6 month . Is there a chance that i can get a part time

[unique quiver]

You can get jobs that pay well and have good work-to-play ratios

[near ocean]

Why cant you have annotated readable python code?

[gaunt elbow]

you can and often have

[red pagoda]

How much are we talking about

[gaunt elbow]

but starters won't do it on their own most times

[unique quiver]

Haha I'm on Term 3 right now, exams coming soon ✨

[red pagoda]

Im thinking more of a helper kinda

[gaunt elbow]

even people with some years of XP get kind of "offended" when I ask them to annotate their code

also I don't like duck typing

[red pagoda]

And ur a? Developer?

[near ocean]

This shouldnt be an ask, it should be a step in CI imho

[unique quiver]

My dream job is to become a Data Scientist, earns around $60,000 anually

[gaunt elbow]

yes

[red pagoda]

We need to be friends

[gaunt elbow]

true, unfortunately it is not

[unique quiver]

And it's a growing career

[red pagoda]

Now

[gaunt elbow]

dude everyone is a dev here

almost everyone at least

[red pagoda]

U have been here for 152 days

[unique quiver]

Seaborn and BeautifulSoup are the two best modules of Python imo

[dense mesa]

On this server?

[gaunt elbow]

my fav module is typing 🙂

[red pagoda]

Therefore i can seek help

[dusky shoal]

numpy is pretty awesome too, along with sympy

[unique quiver]

Yeah-?

[gaunt elbow]

OK i0'm wrong I guess on the percentage of devs

[red pagoda]

Have u done part time?

[unique quiver]

Numpy and Pandas go together hand-in-hand

[near ocean]

Most of the people here are underage, thats why you should take advice from here with a handful of salt

[dense mesa]

I wasn't responding to you 😅

[unique quiver]

Sadly I'm too young to gets jobs, but I do challenges from the server

[dense mesa]

I can't remember the survey stats but I'd be surprised if over ~5% of the server members are actual developers

[unique quiver]

Sorry

[gaunt elbow]

5%

no way

[near ocean]

Even if theyre a professional it doesnt mean theyre a software dev, people should qualify their statements more often tbh

[dense mesa]

You're free to look at the survey results, it's only a sample of the community though

[unique quiver]

Question to everyone: What's your dream job?

[near ocean]

Anything that pays enough for me not to worry about money and is remote tbqh

I dont care what kind of tech i use

[unique quiver]

What if you didn't even use tech 💃

[near ocean]

Even better, pay me to sit around

[dense mesa]

Freelance product consultant

[gaunt elbow]

used to code in pen and paper back in Uni and pretty sure I'm not alone here

oops sorry mario didn't mean to answer to that

[near ocean]

Thats how my exams were, devilish procedure

[gaunt elbow]

yep not the most pleasant, would rather do it in notepad obviously

if that 5% stat is anywhere close to the real percentage of devs then this channel really has an obligation to point the kids to the good practices of annotating their code 🙂

I changed jobs to code some spark applications in pyspark, them fools use notebooks for PROD code, no annotations and magic runs everywhere

project with 100k lines of code

[near ocean]

I'm doing pretty much exclusively vba work right now but i maintain python projects and use powershell often
I'd like to move off of vba and into a python/c#/react role, since the company uses c# and react but im still <1year exp and i dont feel like moving right now

[dense mesa]

This has been discussed many times and is even pinned

[gaunt elbow]

just reinforcing

[near ocean]

I can probably get into a hedge fund and make the big bux but thats not in the immediate future

[gaunt elbow]

I'm also studying csharp in my free time, see if it gets me another job

[near ocean]

Also very stressful, got a quant friend that basically works 9-9

[gaunt elbow]

got a quant friend too

probably will score a job in bnp paribas this week, still finishing his phd

[near ocean]

Then again i got another quant friend that gets paid 80k + bonuses to write a couple lines of cpp

[gaunt elbow]

yep cpp is king there

[near ocean]

Life just aint fair i guess 😔 but theyre both humongous brains

[gaunt elbow]

lotta measure theory lol

but daily work I have no idea that they do, probably running and optimizing some models

I know my friend runs some neural networks often

[near ocean]

The one working insane hours does algorithm validation (in java of all things) and drowns in latex reporting
The other guy works for 2h and then calls it a day

[gaunt elbow]

80k + bonuses in the US or europe or other?

[near ocean]

Uk its gbp

[gaunt elbow]

oh ok, my friend won't get more than 45k if he scores the BNP job

[near ocean]

He barely has a years exp, im not convinced quant work is any different than literally any other dev work, but hedge funds are run by insane people so 🤷

[gaunt elbow]

lot more math you have to know at least to pass the interviews

measure theory, random walks, that sorta stuff

[near ocean]

Yea but after that, do they even use a third of it? Not convinced but im not exactly sure about what it is they do day to day

[gaunt elbow]

probably not you're right

my friend had some interviews in the past with BNP, aside from math they just show you a bit of code in some random language and ask you the result

surprise language but not among many: c, cpp, csharp, java, python I guess

or even just pseudo code

[near ocean]

Re: dev percentages, 7% of respondents were devs professionally

[gaunt elbow]

you guys were right I guess

teach them kids: this is not a solitary hobby, your work has implications on other devs for months/years to come

and I suffer with that everyday

[near ocean]

You dont even need to teach things like these tbh
Emulate successful packages/software
Pretty much all of them are heavily documented, some even came up with their own style of documentation, just look at numpy

[gaunt elbow]

true, but make sure they actually listen lol

everyday I deal with code that basically sends someone into a mad rage

if somevar == 'True', else...

[near ocean]

I spent most of friday fixing this kind of code bloat

[gaunt elbow]

functions defined inside functions that were defined inside other functions, all of this for no good reason

naming your functions map, filter etc...

import star everywhere

[near ocean]

Ofc my situation is in vba where standards dont exist
What do i do in this case lmao
Do i just start my own standard

[gaunt elbow]

sys.exit instead of raising exceptions everywheeeree, so jobs never fail

i could go on but then i would need a drink

[near ocean]

Actual on topic question
What do you do if you join a company and their coding conventions/standard/style do not exist
Is it arrogant to enforce a style, any style? My superior is responsible for the code and he emphasized not going insane and rewriting everything multiple times
Does style fall into rewriting and will he chew me out if i go ahead and force a style

[gaunt elbow]

I'd say to hang on for some weeks/months, get to know the people, and then start mentioning those standards

[near ocean]

Had that issue with python too but im way more experienced in python, i just ran black through the whole code base (and fixed some outliers)

[gaunt elbow]

no point in going all in

[near ocean]

Its so hard to even just read the code, its been a couple weeks and i've been writing my bits in my own style, sneakily

Not exactly my style, going off of other people's styles

[graceful mason]

Style needs to be standardised within an entire codebase - there's no enforced style if you're the only one enforcing it. Ideally that style should be maintained by scripts and pipeline checks rather than relying on people to notice issues

[gaunt elbow]

yep, some will take it the wrong way depending on how you approach it

I work in data engineering and believe me it's the biggest mess

learned to have a lot of patience in this company

[near ocean]

There is no pipeline lol, the CI/CD is a powershell script that copies xlsm files to sharepoint
You wouldnt believe the kind of shit i do on the daily

[graceful mason]

So there's no unit testing either?

[gaunt elbow]

oh boy at least we have cicd in azure lol

[near ocean]

The unit testing is if i notice something's borked i fix it

[gaunt elbow]

so many companies are completely oblivious as to how messy their code base is, which often is the core of their business

one week without dev support and the whole thing collapses

[graceful mason]

Sounds like styling is the least of your issues then, if you're unable to convince your boss to implement a testing pipeline then he won't understand the benefits of consistent styling

[near ocean]

It is the least of my worries yea which is why its the first thing im doing since it'll be the least likely to get me in trouble
Oh well

[graceful mason]

I'd get an actual CI/CD pipeline before trying to implement styling or you're going to have issues enforcing it

[near ocean]

This is the first customer facing feature I've worked on and i want it to take off with minimal issues so i have something to showcase
The CI/CD issue is harder than seems
How do you CI/CD excel workbooks

Way more involved than what they pay me to do atm

First prio is getting something visible on my CV

[gaunt elbow]

dude

if they don't listen to your concerns, leave the place

let them handle those excel workbooks

[near ocean]

Eventually i will, im still at 6 months exp
When i actually do leave this place will crumble im 90% sure

[gaunt elbow]

if you want a quick job just go search for data engineer positions, the market is absolutely desperate for those minimally competent in python and general sql

[graceful mason]

https://www.slideshare.net/xlwings/automated-testing-of-excel-workbooks-179087787

[near ocean]

See the thing is, im hella dumb

[gaunt elbow]

lool you're not i'm 99% certain

hang on for 6 more months, work on your python skills on your free time if you're still a bit insecure, and then 1 year XP will land you another job sooner rather than you think

[near ocean]

Im not dumb, but im not smart either
Getting a better job would take time and energy i cant afford to spare right now however
Slowly chipping at it but its a long ways out

[gaunt elbow]

oh time and energy yes

[near ocean]

Im keeping up with the daily leetcode or two but i work 45h/week and i just cant look at even more code when i get home

[gaunt elbow]

then I would tell you to actually put in the effort in those 45h, not for the company but for your next move

convert that excel logic to python, automate stuff, learn what you need to

[near ocean]

One other thing im wary of is being micromanaged
This job gives me all the freedom and i dont wanna let that go even for 10k more really

[gaunt elbow]

haven't had that problem yet but I would agree that it's very unpleasant

look for remote stuff, harder to micromanage people

lot of remote stuff out there I think

[near ocean]

All my quant and banking friends have had this experience of an overbearing superior
One of them even started taking antidepressants instead of just quitting

[gaunt elbow]

quant and banking are not the norm

plenty of dev jobs 40h or less and not too stressful, we work to live not the other way around

[near ocean]

They pay by the buttload (actual unit of measurement, look it up)

Thankfully my sweet delicate body isnt built for this hustlegrind

Well, thats </rant>

[gaunt elbow]

well don't hustlegrind unless you actually enjoy it, it's not good for anyone except possibly your wallet and the company

[dense mesa]

Seems decent

[delicate bane]

[sharp thunder]

Hey guys, it’s my first time using GitHub and have been putting my python projects in there, 5 so far… but in order to land a junior python devop job or junior software devop job, do I need to include anything else in my GitHub other than my coding ?

[smoky quest]

Think about it from the other way around: what would you want an interviewer to learn from it?

[gaunt elbow]

yes make sure that least on of those 5 is well documented and easy to install and try out (wheel)

[delicate bane]

you can also look at other people's too to get inspiration https://github.com/abhisheknaiidu/awesome-github-profile-readme

well this is more just the readme part but thats still important to be able to showcase your projects

[smoky quest]

also as a note (and I am willing to be proven wrong), I haven't seen any return on investing on a gh profile

[delicate bane]

sadness. i made mine nice too

[smoky quest]

The resume and linkedin profile are the main vectors.

As an interviewer, I wouldn't bother reading someone's profile either. At least not within the initial phases

[delicate bane]

well at least those of mine are pretty good too, so the gh will be for myself then

[smoky quest]

it can only help to be more prepared :p

[delicate bane]

true. i put my hobbies and podcasts on my gh too bc im like that

my linkedin is another story. all profesh, all business, no fun

[near ocean]

Regardless of people looking at your GH, i would avoid making it too flashy, you dont need github stats and most importantly they are meaningless cringe

I've seen accounts with single digit commits be "rated A+" or whatever that means

[honest pivot]

If you have a project worth sharing, then maybe link specifically to that project, not to your main github profile. But take care, I've seen a lot of not so impressive ones.

[safe loom]

I wanted to know your opinion on assessments as part of the technical tests. Not just a simple Leetcode/Codingame problem but a whole study you have to submit by the end of the week. Is it bad sign or not?

[safe loom]

:peepo_sweat: I have it on my main page only to attract recruiters haha

[hollow sierra]

Hey everyone my name is Tony! I am a sophomore in college and am currently working on a social media/ NFT app. I am looking for potential programmers who might be interested in joining this project. This is a very ambitious project! DM me if you are interested.

[plucky karma]

Contrary to opinions above... I don't think it's wrong to commit code you write/solve to GitHub frequently.. fi you are a beginner, you will need to learn how to use version control at some point. And it doesn't hurt to have code to look at.

Beginners and intermediates should not be discouraged from posting code/basic projects to GitHub.

When you become a Software Developer and have actual work experience, you certainly will not care too much in regards to GitHub and it will not matter when applying for other roles at different companies..

You can also make most of your projects private repos if you want to hide bad or noobish work.

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by study?

[smoky quest]

I don't think anyone argued that.
It's more about what matters for the job application and interview

[safe loom]

By that I mean the recruiter sent me 3 CSVs and asked me to conduct a data analysis over them on top of presenting my results to the data scientists.

[smoky quest]

I see.
Doesn't sound suspicious to me

[plucky karma]

There is an possible advantage in getting a job interview for a Junior role.

If the recruiter has 3 resumes he likes and only one of them put a Github profile.. after navigating he sees some projects and maybe a few basic bug fixes on other repos.. I'll bet he calls that person for an interview.

It's hypothetical. Obviously Github doesn't make or break you. But it can't hurt you. (Unless you are updating your README.md for commits instead of doing any significant work)

[smoky quest]

We can construct all sorts of cases. And obviously, the more polished the candidate, the more chances they have.
But from my experience, that wouldn't get that far. The hm will spend 30-45s looking at the resume to make a decisions whether or not they should get a call back. In doubt or if they have some time, they may click on the projects linked in the resume but that's it. If a recruiter is still on the fence about calling you after reviewing your resume, then something is wrong on the candidate's side

[plucky karma]

In reality, I think for a persons first tech job, they should really try to attend Networking events or hiring events.

Usually at hiring events, they screen you by giving you a handwritten coding exam.

[smoky quest]

definitely!
It's like a sales funnel where you sell yourself. The more prospects in your funnel, the more chances to get to something

[plucky karma]

For my first tech job, my boss did actually look at my Github. It was crap, but he was willing to take me in and train me on his tech stack since he typically ends up training people anyways

[near blaze]

are volunteers really so helpful person@&€ workromantic

[delicate bane]

i wish we could bring more meetups and networking events back
i feel like i could show my strengths better

[keen locust]

Hello Everyone, I am noob in this web development And I am still learning so is there anyone who would like to help me as friend and I would be helping him/her as well

[plucky karma]

You can reach out to me if you want.

[keen locust]

how

[brittle thorn]

Yep miss it a lot

[undone willow]

Hey I heard that Boeing didn’t require bachelors education anymore and didn’t post such a requirement on job positions?

https://www.dice.com/jobs/detail/abda52ffd3ff78fdd828617dc1c2305b

How come a “basic qualification” here states a bachelors degree?

[smoky quest]

• It's a big company. So when a company say X, it doesn't necessarily mean it is an absolute rule everywhere. It may only apply to specific conditions
• Maybe that specific position does require it
• ymmv

[honest pivot]

Also not requiring it is meaningless when nearly every applicant will have one

[novel karma]

Hi! Just wondering if any of you know of any opportunities in the neuroscience / biomedical engineering field. I don't have any academic experience in the field (am a CS gradute with 10 years of experience in architecting/programming across a variety of platforms). I am just really passionate and am reading a lot. Thanks & and any information is welcome!

PS: have also tried to apply to several companies but it appears that they really don't care if you don't have some experience in the field. Which is weird because I receive tons of messages / email from recruiters from within different areas 😦

[vapid jay]

Just curious how difficult would you folks rate this problem relative to most algorithm interview problems? https://adventofcode.com/2020/day/5

[drifting leaf]

Guys, have y'all learned Data Visualization?

[gilded valley]

yes

[leaden summit]

So I just have a speed dating interview, its a 15mins interview from the company/firm with senior student in uni to discuss about the student career path after graduate. This is my very first interview so i see it as I think is pretty normal and nice. And at the and, the interviewer said that he think i kinda smart and like me, and told me to contact to the company email after graduation so we could have a formal interview to working there full time.
My wonder is if it is really as he said and presented ? Like they really interested in me and do want to have a contact with me after graduation or they just polite and said nice things so they can get rid of me without let me know they're not satisfied ?

[gilded valley]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a sincere offer. The guy almost certainly wasn't just straight up lying to you, but you also probably didn't blow his mind in 15 minutes

[dim pelican]

Seems like a binary search which is a good algo to solve imo

Ironically thats the problem i stopped working on AoC on in 2020 lol

[leaden summit]

so you do think it seems nice as it looked ?

[gilded valley]

probably - maybe it'll get round to the time you're graduating and it will turn out they don't have the capacity to bring on any new hires, or just that they don't really need anyone at that time
but there's not reason not to send the email then

[exotic jetty]

Anyone willing to learn ML and do projects . So we can do partnership and learn together.

[hot rover]

Hey I would offer to be your partner but I just started learning python and don't feel anywhere near to having a proper handle on the language to touch machine learning yet since I'm still busy with the basics of python and started learning a few days ago. My aim is deep learning in the end though

[hot rover]

Perhaps sometime in the near future we could do something though 🤟🏾

[azure mountain]

You could also try to find him on LinkedIn if that is used wherever you are. Just building a big network on that site can help you see opportunities come up and message folks you've talked to about careers.

[pastel thunder]

How easy is it to get a job after mscs in us for international students if they admit to top 100 school for example

Someone said very easy...almost certain...

I disagree

[dense mesa]

Depends if they've done anything outside of their degree, especially work experience/internships

[pastel thunder]

does lab assistant/teaching count

[dense mesa]

It's a good start yeah

You could go to a top 5 school and do nothing, then struggle to get anything decent

Or go to a "lower ranked" (the rankings are mostly useless), do loads of extra stuff and get a great position

[pastel thunder]

ok

[tepid plume]

😅 😅 🤣

[exotic jetty]

Well I had recently completed a python course from Udemy and did a ml course of the same instructor.
So I guess, you are busy now and in the future if it happens we could do project together.
Happy learning 👍

[pastel thunder]

i really dont understand what they do

its like (design+structure)-(design+structure)

[hot rover]

Thanks , you too bro . I hope you find a good partner . I'm currently doing Udemy courses too

[vapid jay]

😆

[dense mesa]

Product managers don't do engineering and they don't do design. They're figuring out what problems the customer has, and what can realistically be built to satisfy these needs

[ivory sluice]

@amber plume hey fyi, we prefer people don't dump memes on our server

[amber plume]

but it was related to code

[ivory sluice]

yeah i'll let it go if it's relevant to ongoing conversation, but pls take a look at https://www.pythondiscord.com/pages/guides/pydis-guides/off-topic-etiquette/

(even though this is not off-topic channels)

[delicate bane]

what anz said (x2). the best thing you should do is try to get an internship during your mscs bc then you technically have job experience/will make it easier to apply and get a job afterwards

[vernal ocean]

gdfhsdf

bye

[robust otter]

Hello

[pastel thunder]

and in mscs all that would matter will be DSA, right?

[jade trellis]

@hot rover hey man im also new at python, maybe we can link up and make something together? always lookin to colab

[dense mesa]

No, you can learn DS&A in your own time for interviews. The degree trains you how to think about problems

[pastel thunder]

oh sry, i meant for jobs all that would matter is DSA

[dense mesa]

Again no, you may get tested on that in a couple of interviews, but it really doesn't matter much beyond that

[true harness]

you'll learn tons of dsa in school if you're in a mscs program

[pastel thunder]

really thats great, my bachelors university taught nothing]

what all will matter?
OS, DBMS, DSA, system desin

[true harness]

huh. I don't know what country you're in, but if you have a cs degree that seems very strange to not learn DSA in a bachelor's thing

[dense mesa]

It's not as simple as a few things being all that matter in a job

If you can Google properly, and are good at communicating, the rest should be straightforward

[pastel thunder]

i mean i dont want to be unemployed and want to have a large domain i am eligible into, will get strong in those areas

[delicate bane]

what the others said. you should choose to specialize in something then.

[pastel thunder]

probably, fang SWE are in my vision

[delicate bane]

good luck

[peak halo]

I wouldn't get hung up on the idea that you need to work for a FA(A)NG company. The visibility of the company that you work for doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the pay or the work satisfaction.

[pastel thunder]

i understand

[delicate bane]

it feels like every other person i meet gets hung up on this idea. why is that

[dense mesa]

It seems like FAANG/MANGA/whatever is taking a backseat in 2022, people realise there's better paid opportunities which are for more fulfilling work

[peak halo]

well, if they're going to set their sights on a specific company, they're not going to pick one they haven't heard of. and everyone has heard of FAANG companies.

[delicate bane]

i like MANGA

[pastel thunder]

like?

[brittle thorn]

Because its the cool thingy

[dense mesa]

Startups, social enterprises, NGOs, literally anything that isn't consumer technology

[pastel thunder]

startup i agree, but other ummm

[delicate bane]

hmm i guess i dont understand the reasoning as much coming from another field

[pastel thunder]

i will probably jump a lot

hey you, company 2, company 1 is giving me 100k, give me 200k............lmao.....kidz these days

[brittle thorn]

Yeah this is true...

[brittle thorn]

Backlash against ebil mega corps?

[delicate bane]

did you know Y Combinator funds nonprofits too. i thought that was interesting to find out

[brittle thorn]

I think its a status thing...and brag rights

[delicate bane]

hmm most likely or maybe VCs have too much money anyways

[dense mesa]

VC supply >> good demand

[delicate bane]

[brittle thorn]

And make your parents proud ...ohh my son works at ebil mega corp lmao

[brittle thorn]

Yeah heard this

[smoky quest]

• 10-15 years ago, they used to be pretty strict about who they hired. That meant that having Google on your resume meant you passed their interview and thus must be pretty good. In 2022, not so much anymore since they can't be too picky when they reach 100 of thousand of employees
• Due to their size, both in terms of traffic and people, they do encounter unique problems. Which can give some interesting problems in some cases
• Good marketing to engineers 10-15 years ago as the cool place to be

[delicate bane]

this context is very helpful to know. thanks recursive

[buoyant seal]

It still sounds cool if u worked in Google ;)

[delicate bane]

but what if you said you worked at facebook. is it still cool

[buoyant seal]

The did impement React. They should be cool, but I hear they experienced uncool things. I don't remember which ones

[delicate bane]

💀

[smoky quest]

sounds like retirement. Most people I know are just chilling there

[slow widget]

can someone tell me how to send an email in python?

[smoky quest]

Hi! This has nothing to do with the topic of this channel.
You should try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[slow widget]

sorry

[willow olive]

When should I put a skill in my resume? I have a little bit of experience with SQL Server, but I don't know if I should put it because it may look like I have more experience than I actually have. Should I put something like "Some experience with: SQL Server"?

[smoky quest]

Don't undersell yourself.
Put the skills if you are comfortable being asked about it

[willow olive]

I see! Thanks!

[robust otter]

Hello

Lore

[dense mesa]

@robust otter hi, do you have a question?

[dim pelican]

So i just got a call about a PL/SQL position. Never heard of this version, anyone have any resources (didn't think they would actually contact me)

[knotty grove]

Does anyone have any tips/tricks/roadmap to make it in freelance programming? I would really appreciate it

[true harness]

roadmap.sh is one i see recommended often

[delicate bane]

there isnt a right answer but what are the top 3 things everyone here values in a job position

for me atm i think it would be:

1. proper compensation
2. ability to learn/grow
3. an environment that isnt toxic

[knotty grove]

What’s that?

[true harness]

a website

[knotty grove]

Oh I see. Thank you but they don’t really go over how to start freelance

[vapid jay]

1. Compensation
2. Interesting projects and/or technology
3. Autonomy, but not at the expense of camaraderie or growth

[delicate bane]

i like that, especially the caveat to your last point. important things to remember

[buoyant seal]

1. Ability to grow in skills / relevant stuff that increases my hiring attractiveness

xD that is it. Everything else comes out of it.
Salary will get increased with my hard and soft skills
If the environment is challenging, it will have interesting projects and technologies
And etc.

[delicate bane]

thats a good approach

relevant stuff that increases my hiring attractiveness
then the question becomes which skills to focus on
"all of them" jk 💀

[buoyant seal]

I am backend infrastructure guy.
Hard skills I treat as main
And I try not to miss soft skills either.

I learn whatever is right now needed at work the most
Or whatever I reached in my learning schedule, which is planned for half of a year ahead.

Clean architecture learning at the moment. And filling blank spots in my postgresql knowledge. Plus due to some company needs filling some blank spots in Django/backend API best practices

I wish finally to know all the code quality stuff. So I could faster get it.

[nocturne girder]

What is proper compensation in a techy area of a full stack python dev with 2 years experience, STEM but non CS BS/MS?

[buoyant seal]

It depends on the country
And it depends on in which companies u worked and which experience and skills acquired

Different people can reach in your time middle ranks, others can remain as juniors. Or u could be having intern level initially, and reached junior level

[nocturne girder]

I work for a major rocket company on the west coast of the US making $150k-ish

Just learning python, but already have a pretty good resume on the mechanical engineering side, and have to do full stack for my current job but I haven’t really done it before. Curious how worth it it is to go above and beyond to learn vs do the bare minimum to get this project done

[delicate bane]

i think youre doing great my dude. cheering for you

[buoyant seal]

Thanks. Recently I got hired to enterprise international company. I should be getting soft skills just by experience more now.

Startup was cool in terms of hard skills zerg rush. Time to get the taste of enterprise

Plus it has really nice environment to encourage hard skills learning too.

They have training hard skills activities as part of the paid time

[nocturne girder]

My job is probably going to top out at $180-$200k in 5 years, curious if adding py full stack dev to the skills list is going to even be worth it

[buoyant seal]

If u Google
Average Full stack salary in US
I think u ll get numbers twice lower in salary

[summer roost]

web development tends to top out at lower than $200k, so I wouldn't expect the skill to necessarily translate directly to higher salary. Though it obviously never hurts to have more skills.

[nocturne girder]

Its something I have to learn regardless to do my job, just not sure how much go emphasize it on the resume and actually dig into mastering the skillset

[delicate bane]

the Mech E and EE peeps i see coming back for their masters end up learning some type of programming, but i think theres a bias in that since i wouldnt see them in my classes otherwise

[nocturne girder]

But it sounds like I should not emphasize it that much, it’ll just be one line of many

[summer roost]

the backend skills are more valuable than the frontend ones.

[nocturne girder]

The backend skills are also much more difficult

I spent the past 3 weeks doing the backend of my work project and pretty much finished the front end in two days using flask. Flask made it so ridiculously easy. No prior experience on either

[summer roost]

well - that's pretty much exactly why the backend skills are more valuable.

supply and demand, and all that. More work to gain the skills means fewer people who have them

[nocturne girder]

Im kinda lucky that my job gives me months at a time to learn how to do the job without really checking in on me

Allows me to do things like casually learn python from scratch

[dim pelican]

So I'm freelancing. How would i represent that when looking for a job in the future? Do employers take freelancing seriously?

[smoky quest]

This is not related to #career-advice .
You may want to look at one of the off topic channels instead

[smoky quest]

No one cares about where you work.
What matters are the experience you have been gathering and how you have been expanding your expertise.
As long as you can express that in your resume, you will be fine

[dim pelican]

Alright thanks

[narrow kettle]

Where should I search for clients as a backend developer?

[smoky quest]

upwork, linkedin, your professional network

[rare wing]

yay

[analog sun]

Hello, we don't allow advertisements / job postings here as we don't want to be a job board. Thanks

[vapid jay]

is a software tester the easiest to enter in the IT industry?

[plucky karma]

Compared to what?

[vapid jay]

compared to any IT position
I read that you only need a little study time and an istqb exam and you can start on the market to find your first job in it

[near ocean]

i would imagine webdev is the easiest way into the industry

[vapid jay]

but I don't know how much truth there is

[plucky karma]

Helpdesk Support Tier 1 is also easy

Or easier than that, the non-technical dispatcher

[vapid jay]

what are the duties as a helpdesk?

[craggy wave]

It depends on how the help desk is organized, but a common model is to have multiple levels/layers/tiers. Level 1 is often the entry point and the first point of contact for someone having an issue. Here, it's important to identify the problem, gather information, and so on. If the issue is simple or common, it's also solved here. (In fact, most support calls can be handled at level 1.) You typically don't need a lot of experience or in-depth technical knowledge for this level/tier, although it helps to have some feeling for both interacting with people on the other hand of the line and troubleshooting issues, as that's something that you'll do a lot.

[obtuse pulsar]

agree, even if you don't work on web staff "web development techniques" are used to make desktop apps

[young badger]

Hey everyone, i have my IT BA interview in upcomming weeks. Have very less idea about the role, any suggestion, threads that would help me prepare for interview would greatly help me.

[jade coyote]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask, but for anyone experienced in web pricing, what would you charge for a full Shopify website setup, custom template and all products input. About 100+ in person photos taken and a custom Shopify app made in python.

[vapid jay]

I associate this helpdesk job with working on the hotline. does it look like that?

[solemn mica]

Is it true that knowing both python and javascript is redundant? I am learning python but I'm starting to freak out over the idea of learning that maybe javascript could be better, I wouldn't mind learning both, I just don't want to feel like a fool

[smoky quest]

It's not redundant. They are used in different contexts, even if they may overlap sometimes.
Engineers will also know more than a few languages

[delicate bane]

my internship this summer uses both, granted the javascript portion is the react framework

i say this summer but ive already started having weekly meetings with my future manager so...ive never figured out how to talk about this properly

[solemn mica]

Well, my original plan was learning python and SQL, but everyone is acting like python is just some niche language and that I should go all in on javascript, I guess you could say my friends are bad influences

[delicate bane]

its supposed to officially start in the summer but we kinda started a bit early...well mostly experimental stuff for now. implementation later.

[vapid jay]

how much python knowledge do you think is for a junior position?

[delicate bane]

bruh. just some "niche language" is ranked #1 on the tiobe index..? https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

[dense mesa]

Who is acting like Python is a niche language?

[solemn mica]

My friends, I guess they're not that smart, but I'm a bit easy to influence! And I really want to make a living out of programming so it's very easy to panic on whether you're doing the right choice

[delicate bane]

well, i think its good that you at least came to us and asked around to find the truth.

what kind of programmer do you want to be?

[dense mesa]

I'm genuinely curious since I've never heard python be called niche once. What are their credentials: do they have computer science degrees, are they working as software engineers?

[vapid jay]

I noticed that in my country there are many people who want to go to junior java / javascript
and there are very few candidates for python

[solemn mica]

I think that's the question every newbie can't answer, but I think that I want to do software development, sorry if that's kind of a very broad term!

Back end also sounds good

[solemn mica]

Their credentials are being the only goofballs that talk to me, I love them but I don't think that between them theres one year of superior education to have any sort of credentials

[solemn mica]

I think that Python and SQL is a solid plan, and once I'm done with that I want to try luck with javascript

[smoky quest]

it depends.
If you have a cs degree: doesn't matter
If you don't have a cs degree: it matters if your target job requires python

[vapid jay]

for example junior python developer?

[smoky quest]

that's what I answered for

obviously, it would make you more interesting if you know python for a python job. But junior engineers aren't hired for expertise, they are hired for potential growth

[vapid jay]

oh okay

so just apply
and check if they require what I can?

[smoky quest]

yeah and if there are tons of python jobs in your area, then it may be worth it to spend more time with it so you can put it on your resume and make yourself more attractive to increase your odds.
Regardless, python is still a great language to pick up :p

[vapid jay]

for sure,
thanks for your reply

[granite crystal]

how much do i need to know for a junior position? is there a good measuring stick i can use to know when i am ready?

NVM dude the person above me literally is asking this

[graceful mason]

Ask in #microcontrollers maybe

[vapid jay]

Im trying to get a summer internship for but im still in high school. What would yall reccomend

[delicate bane]

you can try but youre usually competing against college kids for the same positions. sometimes theres ones specifically for high schoolers but those are rare. at least here

[nocturne girder]

My first project at work is going to require python, SQL, javascript, HTML and CSS. Its heaviest in python, but thats just my first project

Python and SQL for backend, HTML, CSS and js for front end,

[solemn mica]

Well that clears out the redundancy part but as a complete junior, isn't that a lot of knowledge to require? I apologize if I sound mean or anything

[delicate bane]

you dont have to completely master a language to create a project. its best to tackle it piece by piece at a time. your later projects will def be better than your earlier works

[solemn mica]

That makes sense, I'll try to keep on studying my python and hope for the best then! It seems like a solid backend plan

[delicate bane]

sounds good. feel free to reach out to the community here if you have questions. im also learning to use a similar stack in one of my projects. you can usually ping me anytime im online if you want.

[ocean tiger]

anyone doing Btech in USA , Germany , Canada , Australia pls dm need some help

[atomic hollow]

Heyyo. Im requesting some advice as to where I should go to college. I applied for CS. I got into Purdue Honors for Data science , Wisconsin honors for CS, UVA for CS, UC Davis for CS, and was waitlisted at UCLA and UCSD for CS ( i only mention this b/c uc waitlist is pretty active). What should I look for in these schools? Im interested in ML/Econ. I could see myself doing a lot of different stuff with my degree (MSCS, SWE, Quant, B school later , Startup path , VC path). I like Wisconsin b/c I could do Econ and CS. They are pretty good at both of them. Purdue is really good at CS and their honors is really nice there. Also their OOS tuition is really cheap. I just dont know how good their finance or Econ is. UVA is super cool, and their business is top notch. The cs school is small which means I could have more contact with professors ( this might be good since Im not the best coder. I might benefit from a less cutthroat environment). Davis is cool since im in state for it and I could transfer to another UC after 2 years. Im adding ucla and sd just for the sake of it but im not in currently. I feel like the CS programs are the best at these schools, but because im not a great Math student/ cs student (I didn't even get in normally) then I might be smoked keeping me from doing a MSCS. I would just like to know your thoughts on the matter and where I might find success 🙂 Thank you I know this question is really long lol.

[atomic hollow]

also if i did purdue and did decently could I do an MSCS and be like a normal CS person?

[delicate bane]

this is a loaded question; many things to unpack here. i have my own opinions, but ill let the more senior folks speak.

i think the key question, however, that you'll want to focus on is " what do you think you want to do"

[atomic hollow]

Ya i was going to put a disclaimer sorry! the question is pretty much unanswerable as I wrote it. I think i just wanted to ask "what should I focus on in making this decision" rather than "where should I go". I think what you said is really useful.

[delicate bane]

yes where you said the piece that you could see yourself doing dif stuff with your degree

MSCS, SWE, Quant, Business School, Startup path, VC path

i think all of those are possible paths regardless of the college you choose more or less. you will just have dif opportunities and connections at these various institutions

i almost want to say it depends on your "extracurriculars" too (i.e. internships, networking opportunities, meetups, hackathons, etc.) that might help you with these paths

[atomic hollow]

yea your 100 percent right. Im just scared to make the wrong choice. I guess it serves the scientist in me right to try to optimize for success or happiness lol.

All my friends either know 100 percent what they want or are super confident even though they have no clue what they want.

[delicate bane]

haha yeah its a tough decision. at least you arent going down the academic path where the name of your institution might matter more

[summer roost]

I know some people who went to Purdue for grad school. Indiana is really empty - if you're from a relatively populous area, you might be incredibly bored by how little there is to do off-campus in West Lafayette

[atomic hollow]

yea when i visited I was shocked. Im from the bay area for reference.

[summer roost]

right, yeah. It would definitely be a big culture shock. Weather-wise, too - heavy snow is pretty common, as well as wind chills around -20 Fahrenheit / -30 C

I dunno. Sounds like you have a ton of options. That's the only one of those schools that I have any personal experience with.

[atomic hollow]

Thank you still! Reading my initial question back I sound really ungrateful. Im very lucky to be able to study at any of these amazing schools. Ive just been freaking out over the decision i will have to make.

[delicate bane]

haha its okay. just know, that its also okay to change your mind later on and pivot to do something else.

[summer roost]

you don't sound ungrateful.

plenty of bright people get accepted to a lot of good schools and need to choose between them. Worrying about the choice doesn't make you sound entitled or ungrateful, it makes you sound like someone who's making a choice that can have a huge impact on their life with limited information to base it on.

[delicate bane]

so dont feel like you have to figure out the rest of your life here and now. sometimes, the only way you can find out if you enjoy something/seeing if its for you is to give it a try. and then change to something else if you find out it isnt.

[atomic hollow]

yes totally! no need to do something you end up not liking. CS may just be a passion or a skill for me, not a career path . I just like CS becasue it can do cool shizz

[delicate bane]

yeah and who knows maybe you come up with a cool product idea that serves a market. then you can create an MVP yourself instead of looking for a CTO founder

[atomic hollow]

lol i have an MVP rn 👀

*a partner and I

[delicate bane]

nice nice. my friend wants to rope me in for something similar but im way too busy atm

also i heard product-market fit is super duper important and seeing if theres an actual market or not

[atomic hollow]

that makes sense. with my extensive previous experience with tech and business ( printed hello world and works at pizza shop) I have come to the same conclusion as well.

ya i printed hello world 😎

[delicate bane]

i highly recommend listening to some podcasts from VCs and founders if youre into that kinda thing. at the very least its interesting getting a peek inside their brain

[atomic hollow]

the YC podcast is the SHIT! How i built this is also pretty cool.

[delicate bane]

for sure. most def

well, it sounds like you have some passions then. maybe another thread to consider then is what do you want to use college to learn vs. what you can or want to learn on your own.

[atomic hollow]

I really should learn how to learn. If I want to make something really interesting when I graduate, that thing wont be very popular now. I just want to figure out how to become an expert on different topics.

Also strong writing skills are important

As you can probably tell from my discord messages, I need to work on my writing.

[delicate bane]

most def. theres tons of stuff on meta-learning, but i still like the classic learning how to learn by barbara oakley.

one of the VCs i follow recommends writing repeatedly to get better at it over time. now startups come to him due to his brand.

[delicate bane]

nah. discord writing is dif than copyediting and technical writing and content marketing, etc. i mean look at my messages

[atomic hollow]

[atomic hollow]

idk how discord works so idk if this is frowned upon but if anyone has any more thoughts on this please lmk 🙂

[nocturne girder]

I went to UCSD for undergrad and 3/5 of my roommates were CE. I cant speak to how good the program is, but they are all blowing me out of the water right now as a fairly well compensated dude, especially one of them.

Anyways, coming from being a few years out of school already, heed this wisdom. Nobody gives a shit where you went to school, they only care about what you’ve done as a basis for proving what you can do.

[atomic hollow]

I hoped that this would be the case, but some kids at my school think rank/prestige matters a ton. Thanks for the confirmation that it does not.

[nocturne girder]

It doesn’t matter outside of school even a little. If you can prove in an interview that you can make your employer money because you know your shit, why would they care

Keep in mind the prerequisite to that is knowing your shit and being able to prove it on a dime

Rankings help people who don’t know any better that you are the real deal. Keep in mind the lower ranked school you go to the more scrutiny you face in an interview because your knowledge is not a given

But prove you have the knowledge and nobody cares where you got it

[teal quartz]

hey folks any of you guys have a primary secondary setup for pager duty

If so, how often as a secondary should you expect escalations

What about if primary has never picked up any

[smoky quest]

then primary hasn't been doing their job

[summer roost]

I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed or been unable to log in to triage a page. Obviously that will depend on the number of incidents you have, but the expectation should be that a backup is assigned "just in case". If things are regularly falling through to the backup, the system isn't working.

[red pagoda]

Is there a possibility of getting a part job with knowing the fundamentals of python

[teal quartz]

thanks @summer roost @smoky quest in the past 7 months this person has answered a single high urgency alert

i rather not say anything but it’s starting to wear me out

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> advert

[craggy wave]

Dear @tulip sundial, we don't allow recruitment advertisement within our community. See also the topic of this channel. Thanks for understanding.

[dense mesa]

Product before market, market before product/market fit

[pearl saddle]

just asking some advice from any working professional, Im learning python, can already solve many basic problems related to arrays strings sorting etc, and aiming to become a good programmer, I have a good course in hand BSc in programming and data science, should I go for it or should I choose some other course for my engeneering degree, my final goal is just to be a successfull programmer.

[dense mesa]

If you want to be a programmer, take the programming and data science bsc?

[vapid jay]

is learning python the hard way a good book ?

[near ocean]

why would you learn something the hard way when you could learn it the easy way?
i have not seen it recommended here much, people always reach for automate the boring stuff and a byte of python

[craggy wave]

I don't like "Learn Python the Hard Way" myself. I don't think it teaches Python properly. The previous edition (the one that so vehemently tries to convince new programmers that Python 3 is going to kill Python and should be avoided at all costs) is a book that I once tried to learn from myself. Even in the new edition, it still doesn't use or teach idiomatic Python patterns but rather opts for generic programming patterns (and sometimes even patterns that go towards patterns that are considered to be anti-patterns).

[leaden summit]

if i offered a salary range that much higher than I expected at the first time, should I take it right away or should I still negotiate for more ?

[dim pelican]

Depends on your goals. I personally recently took a pay cut despite my experience in my current field (not programming) so I would have more time to spend with my family. (It backfired though lol)

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> hideous advert

(im sorry i keep pinging you guys, but adverts bother me so incredibly much)

[analog sun]

Hello, please don't post unapproved advertisements, as this server is not a job board.

[night quartz]

@icy berry can i post a job?

[mild zenith]

We don't allow advertisement here. Please refer to our #rules.

We're not a jobs board

[devout yarrow]

Hello everybody I’ve been trying to learn python and get a job as a python developer so a question came up and that’s , what does a python developer do on a daily basis like what do they work on ? Say a Django developer for example , are they just working on Django stuff ?

[fickle flax]

@devout yarrow this bit different but like working as python dev for one they may be working with lots of tech, and lots of stand up meetings. Daily you will have tickets or task to complete if doing scrum method, so it not just single framework Django they may work with other frameworks

[grand quartz]

i have an interview tomorrow that is python focused but was not given a hackerrank link.
Can I ask how to prepare? My guess is that they will ask basic data type and algo questions. Is there anything else I should prepare for? Literally any input is appreciated, thanks!

[fickle flax]

You should check glassdoor.ca to see their interview process, prepare for basic non technical questions like behavioural and have a question prepare to ask them at the end

[delicate bane]

i think you should take what interests you. whatever you think can help you fulfill your educational goals. this is considering you are both learning outside and inside the classroom.

[grand quartz]

i did, the firm is a hedge fund and im interviewing with someone from data so not alot of interviews on there since data team is small. This is actually the third round of interview, previous two were technical but not python.

just wondering what are some obvious knowledge expected of me before going in that i might have missed on

[fickle flax]

You can research too more about them related to your interview prcoess

Yeah, can also focus on job requirement and descriptions and questions related to that

[devout yarrow]

So it’s just random tasks ? But tasks like what ? OOP ? Automation ? Making small scripts ?

[dense mesa]

If they're already offering a good salary, you don't have much of a position to negotiate

It at least shows the company is aware of compensation for that role in that location, trying to leverage a good offer further may not be ideal

[graceful mason]

Depends entirely on the company and product, but I believe the most common python applications are data science, task automation (eg pipeline scripts), web development, and APIs/microservices

[devout yarrow]

Exact answer I was looking for

Thanks man really appreciate it

[dense mesa]

Advertising isn't allowed, please delete this

[weak latch]

Got chu. Didn't know it's part of it. Thanks

[delicate bane]

i know @pastel thunder asked about this question. from one of my favorite podcasters https://youtu.be/E8sLhwvsNf8

[pastel thunder]

Thank you very much for remembering me and sharing this.

[smoky quest]

You should say something to your manager or during sprint retro

[delicate bane]

no problem bud. ken jee is one of my favorite podcasters, and his guest even gave visa advice

i heard canada is a very good option too. have you looked in that option? @pastel thunder

[fresh vault]

Hello

I just joined because I wanted to learn more Python specially machine learning.. solely to make money on upwork. Any advice will be appreciated.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
You may want to check #data-science-and-ml and the associated resources

[icy drum]

How important is data structures and algorithms for careers in Data Engineering?

[smoky quest]

it's pretty important since it molds how you store, process and query data

[icy drum]

Thanks. Do you think knowledge of all these different algorithms and the time complexity/space complexity are considered in building these data pipelines though?

[smoky quest]

Indeed they are, especially at scale.
Think about the impact of a O(N^2) vs O(N) at large scale

or the importance of indices once your data reaches hundreds of Gb/Pb/Tb

[icy drum]

That is true! It seems like there's so much to learn even for entry level 😫

[smoky quest]

that's what makes it so exciting!

[icy drum]

Do you have any one stop resource

[smoky quest]

not on top of my mind

[delicate bane]

best of luck. data engineering seems like an exciting place to be in right now

[icy drum]

Thanks if only I could clear some interviews 🥲

[rocky wedge]

hi

i would like to ask

[last moat]

guys, i need help.

i am web scrapers and i do web automation as well like bots development. i feel like it is not a proper or valueable career. i made 7k$ out of it but i am looking for new career.

i like test automation career but i dont have good communication skills. suggest some in demand careers, especially for freelancing

[smoky quest]

did you miss the end of your sentence?

[smoky quest]

It's a pretty broad statement. Python and automation can be applied to so many things.
Since you are interested in freelancing, you may want to browse some freelancing websites to see what is in demand

[rocky wedge]

nvm thanks

[last moat]

i do web automation with python selenium. it is not a proper career like data scientist, ML engineer. etc

[smoky quest]

could be used for test automation infrastructure

[cyan sequoia]

since demand is so high for programmers, would employers hire someone who knows 1 language , even if they dont have a degree? just cuz the demand is so high ? or how does it work would they just pay less? or flat out not even consider you etc

[last moat]

yes. but i am not good in communication. especially, english speaking. test automation requires us to communicate with project manager or team memebers?

i have social anxiety. i might fail to focus during team meetings on zoom

[smoky quest]

all of the above.
Demand is high and pay is great. So there are tons of applicants.
The normal route is with a relevant degree and the most common one.
Those without degree can still make it, but it's like doing life in extreme hardcore mode since they have to catch up and compete with people who have spent 3-5 years studying the topic full time.
So if you are in HS, don't skip college/university if possible

Note also that employers care about solutions and skills, not language. So knowing a single language is typically not enough. See for instance https://roadmap.sh/ for a set of skills per type of jobs (note that entry level engineers aren't expected to know all of them)

[smoky quest]

Then either improve your communication or focus on your own country?

[last moat]

pay rate is 3 time lower in my country

[smoky quest]

Pay is based on your location, not the company's location

[last moat]

i am looking for a career in which i can dodge zoom meetings and text description from client should be enough

[last moat]

companies in my country pay average of 200-300$ per month xD

[smoky quest]

And a US company would pay you 200-300$/month as well

[last moat]

i dont think so

[smoky quest]

that is not realistic. Remote work requires even more communication

[smoky quest]

You are free to try. But they have no reason to pay you more than your local wage.

[last moat]

did you ever worked with remote programmer??

[smoky quest]

I did and do

[cyan sequoia]

@smoky quest already in uni for something else and dont wanna switch , but was just trynna wonder later over the years how difficult it may be to pick up a job in prograaming without a degree

so like youu said 1 language is not enough? its unlikely to get a job such as one only for python?

[smoky quest]

It's not much different than the opposite situation where someone would want to work in the current field you are studying without a degree.
It may be easier if you can leverage your current degree, especially if there are some areas of intersection

[last moat]

how long do you guys discuss the project. is it enough if programmer answer questions in just "yes or no" answers. or it require tough english and explanations to satisfy clients

[smoky quest]

It requires to write entire documents, make presentations, phone calls, video calls and a bunch of other communication

[last moat]

i am out i guess

[smoky quest]

remote work requires to over-communicate

[last moat]

you know some programmers are anti-social geeks or nerds

[smoky quest]

and they tend to not do well remotely or in teams

[last moat]

how do they manage all of this

[weary latch]

communication is key when working on projects with a group

[last moat]

sadge

[cyan sequoia]

hm yea i just thought its different for programming for example since you can 'self teach' yourself a language but if youre an engineer for instance you cant just self teach urself the stuff

[smoky quest]

software engineering is much more than learning a single language. Assuming you are referring to a career, not just a code monkey job, which even so would require more than that

[weary latch]

yup that's the good thing about programming

[cyan sequoia]

are u based in the states?

[smoky quest]

yeah

[cyan sequoia]

what pathway would you recommend to someone who doesnt want to get a degere in compsci/soft eng/programming but wants to consider a job in the field perhaps, so by self teaching i mean primarily, what approach do you think is best

and also for the roadmap thing, cant you just be a python dev for example and only know 1 language being python and nothing else and still land an entry level job for that

[smoky quest]

It's like asking "can I get a job just knowing how to use a screwdriver"

Companies don't hire screwdriver engineers and screwdriver managers. They hire backend software engineers, mobile software engineers, etc.
A screwdriver could be used to repair a dishwasher or build the next space probe for NASA. Same thing for python

So my advice to you is to focus on the skills for your target job, not the language. The best language for the job may even change in 5 years

[cyan sequoia]

ah ok so then as a follow up again what pathway would you recommend , because i assume the language is still the fundamental part of the job right?

[smoky quest]

algorithms and datastructures are the fundamentals. Languages are just ways to express that

[cyan sequoia]

so as someone with very little programming knowledge/experience where/how do you suggest learning those skills? and if someone learns those skills or the fundamnetal concept of them , isnt it still pointless without the language to convey it

[smoky quest]

Focusing on the language now would be like picking up a screwdriver without knowing if you are even going to need it. So walk backward. Start from the target job, their required skills and walk backward from there

[smoky quest]

That's the problem of self teaching. You have no track, no one to mentor you.
So you have to make your own curriculum based on what you need or see around. And that will heavily depend on your target

[cyan sequoia]

i dont even have a target job , is there a job or type of developer that you think would be easier to get assuming one doesnt have a degree, or sometthing where others would hire more leniently and perhaps not care as much about a degree

hmmm this is challenging :/

[smoky quest]

webdev/frontend is the most popular entry point in 2022 for people without a degree. It may or may not be in a few years

[cyan sequoia]

is there any more advice you would have if it was you in my shoes, trying to begin a journey to get into the field w/o a degree , what else you would do? or anything

[smoky quest]

If you really want to go into CS, then I would just switch degree. Even if you have to redo 1-2 years, it won't matters over the 40 years of an entire career. A degree will open completely new options and doors to you.
So I guess the main advice there would be for you to figure out what you really want to do

[cyan sequoia]

is it considerably challenging? especially for someone with no experience, and i assume the hardest part is just getting ur foot in the door right? once you get a job then its just the experince that matters more and not the degree right

[smoky quest]

If I put a job ad for frontend, I will get at least a hundred applicants, most of whom have degrees, internships and projects. Some don't have degrees but have projects. How do you plan to stand out?

[cyan sequoia]

wel thats the thing , i dont "like" programming , atleast not in the past , but even thou ppl say dont chase it for the money im just like many im sure when i say i wanna give it a chance or see if its even worth trying

trying to be open minded thou

[smoky quest]

you don't have to pay to program. So try it first. Have fun with it and try different things. Make a website, a mobile app, some backend, a blog or whatever

But doing it just for the money without a degree will make it even more difficult. The folks doing it without a degree and who also enjoy it will spend way more time and effort in their projects than you

And note also that not having a degree means it's unlikely for you to get to the salaries you hear about like that

[cyan sequoia]

yeah exactly , thats why im not sure if its worth it , or if its even possible without fully committing too it but idk

do degrees still matter thou after some years of expierence?

[smoky quest]

A bit of multiple factors:

• Companies will totally low ball you because of that. Because they can
• After a few years, it will matter less. But the problem is to get these first few years and thrive
• correlation vs causation. Having a degree is not a guarantee for anything. But being more educated means you can go further and deeper in the problems. Thus increasing your chances of success and going higher and doing better

[cyan sequoia]

so do most people who transition to cs without a degree learn a language/the skills required for front end developing, how long would that take on average you think?

[smoky quest]

depends on the person and where they start from. Could be months to years.
There are bootcamps training people in 3-6 months. You do see a lot of reviews/feedback about a lot of people being lost though

[cyan sequoia]

as for the first few years, worst case lower salary im sure right? even if they low ball it 40k, 50k , etc or internship for free to learn , but then it wont matter after those few years right

[smoky quest]

not really.
There is a thing such as negative returns. They may screw up things or take too much time of the team and other engineers

[cyan sequoia]

ah

[smoky quest]

and if you got the budget to hire an engineer, you can as well hire an entry level one

You may be able to find people willing to give you work without paying you or some other shady shit. But you are entering the scam area

[cyan sequoia]

oh also , im not sure if its illegal or just immoral lol but ive heard stories of people getting hired for any random job by saying they possess a certain degree / experience even if they dont , and more so towards degrees i guess , do employers even check it?

[smoky quest]

• they may check
• depending on the country/laws, it may have some legal implications
• you would get fired on the spot and blacklisted
• you would also have enough technical chops to pass for that

And yes, it's pretty immoral and something I would strongly advise against

[cyan sequoia]

hmmm ok :/

[smoky quest]

There may also be implications for future jobs as they may ask or check with references from your past jobs

[cyan sequoia]

gotcha

[novel dome]

What should I do after I had learn Basic Python Course??? Everyone

Help me Please

[dense mesa]

For your career or?

[velvet wing]

Hi is there a way to get message updates in my own sever from other discord severs even if it's not an announcement channel

[near ocean]

this is a careers discussion related channel, you should ask in the appropriate channel instead

[primal mesa]

hey guys

what is the normal age grp of ppl around ehre

[dense mesa]

This is for careers discussion, try #data-science-and-ml or #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[dense mesa]

According to the end of year survey, roughly 60% of the server is under 18. So keep in mind any careers advice here may be given by someone who has no professional work experience