career-advice

[smoky quest]

That would be an overgeneralization and not really relevant to the topic.
I would rather stay on topic

[vapid jay]

well i proved my point you are trying to use a reverse thinking to prove a point

[near ocean]

One thing acknowledging it and another endorsing it

[smoky quest]

I just don't subscribe to logical fallacies.
Try to apply your logic and you will see it doesn't compute.

So that will be the end of that topic for me

[vapid jay]

im okay with people living in their own world.... because you can only understand what your iq allows you

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to stop insulting people. It's not conducive to a conversation

[vapid jay]

i didnt insult anyone..this is a statement true to all people

if your perception of your own life is such a way that you take as an insult im sorry... but maybe thats also a relfection of your own doing

[gaunt elbow]

just some venting... in my previous job I was in charge of doing technical interviews for a while; I knew the pay was going to be shit - about 13k€ / year - but in my arrogance I still made the interviews quite difficult; I'll never do that again; you get what you pay for, and I make that quite clear. They never asked me to do interviews again.

this is why I tell younger colleagues that it is ok to lie about salaries. Companies will make you as cheap as they can more often than not.

and in my previous team i made all the salaries known to each other

[smoky quest]

or work with better companies 😉

[gaunt elbow]

true

I'm in a better place now, UK multinational, but I had to lie about the previous salary to get 35k€

[vapid jay]

ya i mean if the company doesnt want to pay you the higher wage then they arent forced to...

i mean they could just say 'no' to ur lie then offer less

[gaunt elbow]

yep

[smoky quest]

There have been a bunch of laws recently preventing companies from asking your previous salary. So depending on your country/time, they may have done something illegal by relying on it

[gaunt elbow]

they did not ask

i said "I earn this and that, ain't even going forward for less than 35k"

[vapid jay]

some job applications i have filled out required to enter previous salary

[gaunt elbow]

and they said "ok 35k it is"

[gaunt elbow]

BNP paribas does that sometimes

[smoky quest]

yeah, you can just say your number.
Note that if they accepted right away, it means you weren't greedy enough 😉

[gaunt elbow]

yep maybe 40k was doable

[vapid jay]

^

[gaunt elbow]

so i was a bad liar lool

but hey, fully remote i spend like 4000€ per year

[vapid jay]

nah.. you were just a liar with not enough research

[gaunt elbow]

I don0't even pay rent anymore

remote made care less about money and more about what kind of projects will I be part of

even though currently the project is not too interesting

I'm thinking of trying to break into some csharp jobs, not necessarily web related but I would not mind

I love python but it allows others to write some really messy code and I'm kind of tired

functions with 10 arguments, not annotated so nobody knows what to pass them

[vapid jay]

go java!

[gaunt elbow]

would be ok with it just to try

[summer roost]

You didn't need to lie for that. You don't need to say "I earn ... so I won't take less than ...", you can just say "I won't settle for less than ..."

You can always just decline to answer the salary question, even if they ask.

[gaunt elbow]

true but it just settles the issue right there

[vapid jay]

i dont look at it as lieing..... i see that as negotiating

[summer roost]

you don't need to lie to negotiate. "I won't accept the job for less than X" is perfectly fine.

[gaunt elbow]

yep

[vapid jay]

its same as like playing poker... you are not necessarily lieing ... you are playing a cards game

[summer roost]

"I made X at a past job" is a lie if you didn't. You don't need to, and shouldn't, say that.

[vapid jay]

like if someone asks you what ur hand is in a poker game... and you say 3 kings... is that lieing...or playing the game

[summer roost]

both.

[gaunt elbow]

playing the game

technically a lie, but that's playing the game

[vapid jay]

when 'playing the game' it is 'understood' no one is telling the truth aka social constructs

[summer roost]

right. That's true for poker, and that's not true for business relationships.

Lying to someone you're about to enter into a legally binding contract with is quite a bad idea.

[smoky quest]

The problem is the previous salary can be checked sometimes.
And if it ever comes out you lied on something, all bets are off from the employer's perspective

[gaunt elbow]

depends on the lie no?

[vapid jay]

your past salary had nothing to do with present employer

so regardless if you told truth or not they will neverr know so whts the harm done...

[gaunt elbow]

previous salary cannot be checked in any legal circumstance

and even if they found out I'd just full Arnold "I lied"

[smoky quest]

depends on the country

[vapid jay]

im just saying legally....can a the company file charges against you with a lawyer is the main question..if answer is 'no' then no harm done

[smoky quest]

I have seen people being fired on the spot for lying

[summer roost]

That's not necessarily true. It can come up in a background check, for instance. If they find out that you've lied, the worst case scenario is criminal prosecution for fraud. As part of your application, you are often forced (at least in my country) to sign a piece of paper affirming that you've represented yourself truthfully.

[vapid jay]

can u fire your boss for lying?

how many times has ur boss lied... i cannot count how many times my bosses lied... but yet u can do nothing

[gaunt elbow]

I get it, and often some lies are very serious, but that's not the case here: we're just considering lying about previous salary

[summer roost]

In the US, they can fire you, they can potentially force you to pay back wages, they can take you to civil court.

[vapid jay]

yet u have to keep an open business relationship with these people... listen..les just dont go one way... if you live to a standard where only you can get fired for telling lies but no one else is gettinhg fired... well thats all on you

[smoky quest]

It's a breach of trust. If you lie on something, you can lie on anything else

[gaunt elbow]

companies do that all the time, breach of trust

[vapid jay]

other than all these semantics... its all gonna come down to court batgtles

[smoky quest]

And they get sued too. Two wrongs don't make one right

[delicate bane]

if its a small industry, you can get blacklisted

[gaunt elbow]

"we cannot pay you more" , "ok i quit", "oh wait we CAN pay you more"

sorry not sorry, I'm always going to lie about salaries

one thing I'm not going to lie about... sharing salaries with team mates

[vapid jay]

tbh... most 'crimes' have a time limit..if they are not caught within a certain period of time u cannot get chargted for these 'crimes'

[gaunt elbow]

tech is a small industry?

[smoky quest]

You conduct your business the way you choose too, with the risks and consequences implied by them.
Just make sure you are aware of the risks, legal and non-legal implications

[vapid jay]

even if u release the information u committed a so called crime ... if the time period has elapsed then u cannot be charged

[delicate bane]

just bc you are a dev doesnt always mean you are in tech industry

[gaunt elbow]

honestly I am not fully aware of the risks

not really worried though, I stopped caring when I went full remote and stopped paying rent

[vapid jay]

when yhou play with fire you wont necessarily get burned...but the 'chance' of getting burned is higher when u play with fire

[smoky quest]

• People talk. After 10-20 years, you will know a lot of people in different companies, who may have worked with you and heard things about you
• Companies have ATS to track past applications. So you can be banned for life in a company
• Your future jobs may ask for references from your past employers. If you left in bad terms, they are unlikely to say anything good about you.

[gaunt elbow]

you're right

[vapid jay]

unless if you owned the company...

[gaunt elbow]

but still, lying about salaries obviously brings more good than harm

I don't lie about other stuff, unlike what I may be suggesting

[smoky quest]

The sad part is you don't even need to lie about your salary. That's unnecessary risk.

[vapid jay]

lets say u own a company then try to get hired by a different company from what u own.... will they ask about u to ur own company and if the people you hired say bad thingss on you then you wnot get hired at new compnayh?

[gaunt elbow]

you don't need but it's a risk that often yields good benefits: it different saying "i earn X, make me an offer" than saying "I want Y"

[vapid jay]

the thing is... every human has rules... lets say a racist person owns a company and sets racist policies that u dont follow ... the owner can blacklist you and say bad things to ur new compnay denying u a job

if the owner has racist policies.... empoloyees HAVE to follow the racist policies or get fired

[smoky quest]

tbh, it's a crapshoot.
Companies have bands. Either you fit in them or you don't. Your past salary is a lot less relevant in 2020s than in 2010s because of the push for equity. So it comes down to competing offer

[gaunt elbow]

it's true that last part

you can also lie about other offers, never done that but just might

[smoky quest]

it's common to ask a proof of it

[vapid jay]

ya u can lie about anything and everything... your emplloyer can also lie cuz u will neverk now if they are lying or not...same with u

[gaunt elbow]

true, but also often the offers are made orally

[vapid jay]

record the convo on cellphone...

[gaunt elbow]

lol that's bad

[vapid jay]

ya well u can just say the offer was made orally if they ask...u dont neeedd proof

[smoky quest]

then it comes down to how convincing you are at lying and how well you did in an interview.
A typical reply from the company would be along the lines of "oh so you don't have anything concrete yet. Let's talk when you do"
But we are going pretty far into the hypothetical and the point is you have to dig into the lies much deeper

[vapid jay]

just lie about the offer and high ball it...no one will ever know... cuz they will do same to u in form of giving you lower salary then your peers even tho u have more credentials and more ecperince!

but since no one is ever supposed to taalk on salary none of employees would ever know they are getting cheateed

[gaunt elbow]

what you mean no one is every supposed?

[vapid jay]

in usa u cannot talk on salary... company can fire u on that

[gaunt elbow]

that happens all the time

[gaunt elbow]

I'm not american and even I know that it is not true

[vapid jay]

they 'can' fire you ..doesnt mean they will..

[ivory sluice]

i think that would be illegal..

[gaunt elbow]

company can make anoterh excuse to fire you, if they actually say that the reason is "discussing salaries" they're in for a ride

[vapid jay]

i asked a person their salary once and got fired from a job when i was 19...

iwas told u are never supposed to ask salaries...

[gaunt elbow]

please call a lawyer right away of that ever happens again

[vapid jay]

the thing is business owners make their own policies etc... aka ther own rules depending on how they see things... the rules they set are the rules they are legally bound to

[gaunt elbow]

better yet tell them this: "ok, please can you send me that in writing?" aaaand they're effed

[gaunt elbow]

not true, they can make you sign a contract saying "I work for 1$ /hour" and that contract is worth nothing

same for discussing salaries

[vapid jay]

i dunno....i think if u put ur signature on that... its legal document

its same as if company writes i will pay 1 million per year are they legally bound by it for a 15 dollar hour job

assuming all signutres by company and u are on said document

[gaunt elbow]

I get what you mean but no contract will ever be above the law

and discussing salaries in the US is protected by law, please look that up do not take my word for it

[vapid jay]

ya thats why u need courts tho... this is stuff a judge decides not you or me or the cpomany..

[gaunt elbow]

ALWAYS discuss your salary with the team mates

[vapid jay]

only a jduge/jury...can decide on these things.... not you ..me or the compannh

ya... i dunno any of these things tbh...

from my experinve... even when i ask people i am 'freinds' with at work.... non one talks about salaries... they just look down and walk away

[gaunt elbow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/ojsha1/lpt_there_is_nothing_tacky_or_wrong_about/

[vapid jay]

Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages.

ok u are right... i looked it up.. well i guess i should have talked to lawyer when i got fired

[gaunt elbow]

now you have the power man

that's why I said: next time you are threatened with being fired on the salary discussion issue just tell them "I'm very sorry, can I please have that in writing?"

[vapid jay]

ya

so is it okay to talk politics/religion at work too with other empoloyees?

[gaunt elbow]

lol no idea but I wouldn't believe that to be an issue right?

[vapid jay]

Is it illegal to talk politics at work?
And it is true that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects free expression — but only from government intrusion. Unless you work for the government, your employer is entirely within its rights to limit or prohibit political discussion at work, according to seasoned employment attorneys.

Do You Have a Legal Right to Discuss Politics in the ... - PLBSH

[gaunt elbow]

did not know that, thanks

[vapid jay]

so for whatever reason.... empoloyers can fire you for talking relgiton and policitics...but not for salary ...but salafries can also upset people esepecially if they arent getting as much as they think they should recdeive

not sure the logic behind that....

[summer roost]

A business can ask you to sign a document that says that the business will steal from you, but it's not legally binding even if you do. Minimum wage laws are laws about what the company is legally allowed to pay. Nothing you sign can ever allow the company to commit a crime.

[summer roost]

it's not illegal, but it's probably unwise.

[vapid jay]

cvs hired me to do cashier work without verifying my i9 paperwork

i found this out cuz they didnt pay me for over a month... cuz they hired me before the i9 paperwork got verifeid by corporate...meaning i wasnt even in the system...meaning they had no records of ohurs i worked when i asked corporate what was going on

cvs by the way is a international compnay

also the military hires people to kill people in other countries..killing is illegal and a crime... and military is a company

[summer roost]

killing isn't always illegal or a crime, and the military is not a company.

[vapid jay]

military is a business which is funded by united statess govt

[summer roost]

no, it isn't.

[vapid jay]

The Army's sacred role is to protect the nation's interests. The unique nature of the profession of arms transcends what we would consider typical for business." While the Army is not a business, Spoehr said if it is to be successful, it must exhibit "world-class" business practices.May 30, 2014

Is the Army a business? | Article | The United States Army

[summer roost]

so - you just cited something that says "the Army is not a business"

like I said.

[vapid jay]

ok it is an organzation but utilizes business practices... i mean peple join military to get jobs

[summer roost]

and killing isn't illegal, extrajudicial killing is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

[vapid jay]

just like 'stealing' money by lieing to consumers isnt illegal cuz its done through business practices(capitalism)I vs non businesses practices

[summer roost]

It is illegal for companies to lie to consumers.

https://dcba.lacounty.gov/portfolio/false-advertising/
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/17/240.14c-6
etc

[vapid jay]

Employers Can Legally Lie to Workers, Court Rules - TheStreet
https://www.thestreet.com › PERSONAL FINANCE
Aug 21, 2014 — A recent decision from the Texas Supreme Court has ruled that at-will employees can't sue their employer for fraud over the loss of their .

well workers and consumers may be different sitautions

so if a compnay sells a microchip supposed to be rated for 2.4 ghz but its only getting 2.32 ghz they are lieing

[summer roost]

yes

at least, if they're aware of that fact and intentionally deceiving consumers

[vapid jay]

ya but no ones gonna do anything

i dunno... i find it hard to belive that like best buy would take a computer back past the 15 day grace period or somethjing if the chip isnt 2.4

[summer roost]

what do you mean? Companies are sued for things like that all the time. That's what Class Action lawsuits are all about

[vapid jay]

do u know how hard it is to file a class action lawsuit... u just cant do that... there has to be years (thousands of poepole who had same problem before you that filed complaints on it before you) in order for laywrs to open a case then u get added into it... you perosnally cant filke class actions...a group of lawyers only can do it

like a firm has to do this...

unless there is documented cases of thousands of people getting something done to them similaryly showing a pattern... nothing will get done

[summer roost]

I think you're misunderstanding the legal system. You can personally sue for it. You likely have better leverage and a better chance of winning if a lawyer convinces a judge to allow them to represent the entire class of affected consumers, but you can file suit even without becoming a representative of the class.

You seem to have a lot of misunderstandings of the legal system, frankly. You should refrain from giving anyone legal advice.

[vapid jay]

i filed legit compolaints with the BBB...i had to call several govt agencies which were given to me by the BBB cuz BBB can only do so much... the management of one of the govt agencies happened to be a lawyer and he told me about the class action lawsuits how they work etc... so maybe youre smarter than the managment of the govt agencies actually doing the class action lawsuits?

mabye you should lecture him instead

[summer roost]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-a-class-action.html

[vapid jay]

ok i get that but how will u pay for class action lawsuites on your own

[summer roost]

And note especially:

What Is "Opting Out" of a Class Action?
As mentioned above, the Notice of Class Action Lawsuit must typically inform you of your right to ask the court for exclusion from the class (this is called the right to "opt out").

Opting out of the class means you won't be a part of the class action, meaning you won't take part in any settlement that's agreed upon. You also won't be subject to any other resolution of the class action—if it's dismissed, for example—and you'll be free to file your own lawsuit against the defendant.

As well as:

if certain procedural requirements are met, those individuals can form a "class" of plaintiffs in one lawsuit (as opposed to filing hundreds or thousands of individual cases).

[vapid jay]

you realize yoiure paying a team of lawyers vs just one lawyer?

[summer roost]

You wouldn't - if you're on your own, it's by definition not a class action lawsuit.

[vapid jay]

first you wrote this

[summer roost]

yes. That's not a class action lawsuit. That's just a lawsuit.

[vapid jay]

godlygeek — Today at 4:03 PM
You wouldn't - if you're on your own, it's by definition not a class action lawsuit...then you wrote this

[summer roost]

right.

there's no conflicts between those two statements.

it becomes class action when the plaintiff asks to be used as a representative of the entire class of wronged people, and the judge agrees and certifies that request.

[vapid jay]

you wrote the first thing to my defintiton of class action lawsuit here...

[summer roost]

You said:

do u know how hard it is to file a class action lawsuit
And I responded by saying that you don't need to file a "class action" lawsuit, you can just file a lawsuit.

[vapid jay]

i told u that u need a group of people to which u repleid that i dont know what im talking about you can do it on ur own just to say later you cant do it on ur own

[smoky quest]

maybe we should refocus on #career-advice ?

[vapid jay]

i dunno manl...i am done...sorry im just too tifed for this...

[summer roost]

You don't need it to be a class action lawsuit in order to sue the company for its false claims.
You do need a group of plaintiffs for it to be a class action lawsuit.

[vapid jay]

ya i nkow this...

[summer roost]

That's what I was trying to say. But, yes - we've wandered off topic.

[vapid jay]

well thanks for the convo... i found it interesting thanks

[vapid jay]

Oh this shouldn't be tough

[vapid jay]

learning web dev makes me want to put my laptop on fire

like seriously im done with react but now i understand what all these stupid books are not properly teaching

and that is css, i dont even want to learn web dev, i just want a better paying job than tutoring

those who spend their time mastering css are absolutely insane, i can grasp the process of learning it but I'm tired of spending months mastering a topic

[sudden sonnet]

Hey

[undone willow]

To any veterans of programming out there. How stable can being a programmer be? I’ve heard of this one guy in YT quoting to become a full time content creator. His reasons seem to be with how fast companies will throw out programmers and the difficulty to find a new job. Couple self study and interviews and I can see how stress can mount.

But is this a once off? What kind of companies outside of the big 4 will tend to keep people in house? And do HR people / recruiters find months long gaps in a programmers resume to be a deal breaker?

[summer roost]

much, much more stable than being a youtube content creator.

[undone willow]

Lol

[summer roost]

Seriously, Google can disable a YouTuber's account unilaterally and they have no recourse. Happens relatively regularly if a bot decides you're violating ToS using that Google account, on any Google product.

I'm not sure there's many legal ways to make money that are less stable than YouTube.

And software development is a stable career with pay that's quite good.

[undone willow]

I more wanted to talk about software development then being a YouTuber. I have no interest in being a full time content creator. Or even part time.

I guess I’m just afraid of getting my first shot and blowing it (if I ever get it…) or having to explain gaps. Like, irl as a developer how do you explain gaps?

Not every developer has a six figure salary or seems to have a steady job as some companies ditch workers.

Idk how common this is but it was something I wanted to ask about. If it’s not that common that programmers are let go after projects or can face frequent gaps of employment then just ignore me. Just fear in my skull

[summer roost]

I've heard of mass layoffs like that for video game developers, but not for any other type. I do not personally know any programmers with degrees who have any trouble getting or retaining jobs. And in the US, six figures is easily achievable for software developers.

[undone willow]

With degrees then? I see. Thank you Geek. And yeah if I ever become a software dev I would never go into making video games. That’s just poverty and stress.

[summer roost]

Yeah, if you want stability, a degree helps tremendously, at least for the first decade. Once you've been working for a while it becomes less important, but it's hard to get there without a degree

[earnest notch]

Work at the same job though, employers are often very reluctant to hire people that only ever worked for a year or so at each company. If you switch earlier, you need to have a good reason for it.

[vapid jay]

game dev can be extremely bad or extremely good. minecraft is a good example.

[honest pivot]

An example of what?

[graceful mason]

notch's success isn't exactly representative of 99% of game development

[bright forge]

Hi

[dense mesa]

Hey 👋

[shy pecan]

Hello

[peak halo]

This channel is for career discussion. If you want to begin your message with a greeting, that's fine, but please follow it up with an on-topic comment.

[vapid jay]

#help-potato

[high field]

Hi

Suppose you were trying to make the most money freelancing; what programming skill is most profitable?

[turbid bobcat]

How helpful is a cover letter?

I'm on the fence about writing one. Might do more harm than good if it comes out badly written.

[summer roost]

it definitely could, if you're not good at expressing yourself in text. In general, I think cover letters are somewhat beneficial, but probably not beneficial enough to justify the effort.

unless it's a company that you're very excited about and want to give yourself the best possible chance and can justify the extra effort as a result

[turbid bobcat]

this is the case, I find the company to be very cool and exactly what I'm looking for

[summer roost]

It's unlikely to hurt as long as it's not poorly written, then. If you're not confident in your ability to express yourself clearly, you might want to have someone proof read it for you before you send it.

[calm field]

Good afternoon everyone! I'm writing a career research report for my university CO-OP and I'm looking for a career professional (someone engaged in the workspace currently) who'd wanna answer a few really quick questions on the field. feel free to dm me if you have time!

[summer roost]

if it's really quick, why not ask the questions here?

[calm field]

the questions allude to their profession, wanna give the people the opportunity to help without doxxing them

[summer roost]

well, if it's very quick, feel free to DM me.

[honest pivot]

If a cover letter is only going to repeat what is already said in your CV (with some extra sentences about how you're excited to apply for [role] at [company]), then it's very much not worth it. I would only write one if you actually have something to say.

[delicate bane]

yeah i feel like a cover letter is similar to writing an introduction email to the hiring manager.

[graceful ether]

I already know Javascipt.
Im trying to learn Python. I want to take a Coursera course. Can someone give me your opinion on each of these.
I dont know what I want to do with Python maybe learn Django/Flask or dabble in ML

1)https://www.coursera.org/specializations/applied-data-science

2)https://www.coursera.org/specializations/python

3)https://www.coursera.org/specializations/python-3-programming

[mortal harbor]

Just got this in the mail

[high field]

Is python freelancing easy?

[peak halo]

@high field in what market? Also, by what standard of "easy"?

[summer roost]

and with what level of experience/expertise?

[vapid jay]

well minecraft sold for around 2bil? iirc. that is an example of a success but in some other cases its shit

[honest pivot]

What does that have to do with working conditions at Mojang?

[vapid jay]

what do you mean? btw by "good" i meant notch earning 2 bil. the other person mentioned poverty and stress so i mentioned thatr

[summer roost]

Saying that it won't lead to poverty if you're lucky enough to be incredibly successful, while true, is not at all helpful.

[vapid jay]

yes i agree

im saying it can either be really good or bad

[summer roost]

sure, but that's true of pretty much every job, and therefore not useful for informing career decisions.

[vapid jay]

they were saying game development leads to poverty. i disagreed

[summer roost]

I wouldn't say poverty, but I would say that the average game developer is likely to be significantly less well compensated than the average non-game developer. Most game developers work for studios and don't found their own. Most major game studios are known for terrible culture, low pay, poor work life balance, and extra hours during crunch time.

[vapid jay]

ok

[summer roost]

if you know better than me on what life is like for the average game developer, I'm happy to be corrected, but pointing to extreme outliers doesn't really help convey any information about what things will be like for most developers.

[dim spire]

Hi, I am currently enrolled in a Data Science certificate that takes 16 months but I want to find a job and start working as soon as possible. Can anyone recommend where I can learn skills needed to qualify for an entry level position? I learned SQL and Python but not the actual things used for the work itself.

[high field]

I am finding it hard to get work on fiverr

[peak halo]

What kind of jobs are you trying to do?

[high field]

Its on my discord profile bio

[ancient widget]

game dev is lit

[high field]

I am offering my skills to do peoples python scripts for them

[smoky quest]

What is your target customer?

[high field]

I havnt thought about it that in depth

[smoky quest]

Should they know what python is? What python can do?
If they do, then when should they contact you?
If they don't, then how are they supposed to know they need you and when?

[high field]

Good point

[ancient widget]

it's not gonna be that easy

[grizzled copper]

I Have same 2 books , e-version

Also I recommend Luciano Ramalho's Fluent Python

[livid jewel]

Are are there any jobs in industrial application of computer science?

[peak halo]

what do you mean by "industrial application"?

[livid jewel]

Like working for oil companies or ya know industry companies

[peak halo]

I assume they higher programmers. For what, I'm not sure.

[livid jewel]

Not specifically oil companies though

So what can you do with computer knowledge say if I had a business rebuilding car parts or parts for machinery?

[livid jewel]

What kind of work do you have as a data scientist?

[smoky quest]

tons of jobs

[peak halo]

I'm a computational linguist. I contribute to technologies that extract structured information from human language.

[smoky quest]

There are tons of automation in different industrial contexts

[livid jewel]

So mostly AI progrmaming jobs?

[smoky quest]

not really

[livid jewel]

What do you learn

[smoky quest]

It can be as simple as controlling traffic lights 🙂

[peak halo]

not sure I understand the question. I have a computer science BSc.

[livid jewel]

like where can i read about this. Ive never heard of such a thing. lol

[peak halo]

.wiki computational linguistics

[flat anvil]

Wikipedia Search Results

Computational linguistics
study of appropriate computational approaches to linguistic questions. In general, computational linguistics draws upon linguistics, computer science, artificial

Linguistics
through fieldwork, or through introspective judgment tasks. Computational linguistics implements theoretical constructs to parse or produce natural

Page 1/5 · Mar 20, 2022, 11:36 PM

[livid jewel]

Dang that's a mouth full

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It's not a channel for shitposting. You may want to use one of the off topic channels

[ancient star]

Does computational linguistics differ from natural language processing?

[ivory sluice]

(we dont want shitposting anywhere really)

[livid jewel]

Damn

Spiderman007 You got a question or something?

[summer roost]

Do you work in game dev?

[coral dew]

It's been 2 years since I graduated from High school and I don't have a college degree. I had to drop out of college because I got very sick (bed-ridden hospitalised ) and couldn't attend college and pay the tuition fee on time. After recovering and a month of sitting at home, I started applying for jobs that required only a High school diploma and continued to learn to code now by myself.
After a month, I got an offer for an IT help desk role, the pay is the bare minimum but they are offering 50% reimbursement for a part-time college tuition.
My ultimate goal is to become a developer, but Currently, I am in a situation where I can either accept this IT support job or keep learning to code to get the dev job I want. What should I do?

[smoky quest]

If the alternative is between an IT support job that would support college tuition or nothing and learning on your own, it sounds like the it support job + college could be interesting?

How do you see the situation and trade of?

[coral dew]

I've been learning to code for 2 years now and have done some personal projects, the second choice for me could be to do some more projects for my portfolio and then apply for a dev job as a self-taught developer.

[smoky quest]

The gap would still be pretty big between you and someone with a degree and who has spent at least 3-5 years full time learning with associated projects and internships.
So you would need a lot more efforts to stand out. You would also have to be ready to have your salary constantly reduced since you would be self taught

[coral dew]

Yeah, you're right.
It supports job + college+ doing side projects seems like a safe choice. My ultimate goal is to get a dev job.

[smoky quest]

There may also be some internal transfer opportunities, opportunities to code some stuff to automate some of your job, and networking opportunities. And you do get paid 🙂
Worst case, you can always go back to self taught.

But if you don't have to worry about the pay, trying to attend college may be fine too

[coral dew]

Yeah, it does sounds like a safe choice. I should accept the proposal.

[summer roost]

make sure there aren't any strings on the tuition reimbursement - like needing to pay it back if you leave within 2 years, or not being eligible for tuition reimbursement for the first year, or anything like that

beyond that - yeah, a chance to make some money doing relatively easy work while working towards your degree sounds like a great way to get your foot in the door, @coral dew

[coral dew]

Forget about making money, pay is the bare minimum it would be hard to even survive independently. I'll have to share the room as to afford the rent. They are only reimbursing 50% of the tuition the other half I'll have to manage on my own.

[summer roost]

that's still more money than you'd make if you were continuing to teach yourself while unemployed, let alone trying to go to college

[cobalt lagoon]

There is a potential for you to use your development skills in your help desk role.

I.e., automation.

[summer roost]

that's not to say you shouldn't keep applying to junior jobs. But, taking this help desk position and getting paid while continuing to learn might help you survive, and give you better chances to eventually land the dev job you want.

[cobalt lagoon]

I'm a software engineer with a background in help desk. I personally think it is good experience in regards to professionalism, and it's good for junior developers to have some sense of what IT is.

[coral dew]

Yeah but one thing to also mention is that the reimbursement is only offered for the degree from the company's partnered university, so I cannot switch the company until I complete my degree with them. I would have to rely on internal job postings or I might stuck at the help desk for 3-4 years.

[dense mesa]

Are you able to say the country for context? For example, in the UK I personally would go for student loans regardless, but having a stable part time job would be good too

[summer roost]

You wouldn't be able to transfer credits to a different university?

[summer roost]

!rule 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

We don't allow this sort of offer here.

[haughty swan]

I had an application go through smartrecruiters.com, for which I was invited for an interview last month. Without getting into specifics, I thought me getting the job was a lock. However, it is taking longer than the interviewers told me (2-3 weeks, now this is the 5th week since the interview). On the smartrecruiters portal the application is still on the 'interview' stage but the HR person has not responded to my last message. Given the fact that it appears I'm not rejected on smartr, should I still wait for it or is it common for recruiters not to update candidates there?

[hazy nexus]

Hiya how’s everyone doing

[hazy nexus]

IMO I think you should wait for a week more before doing anything, I have no experience tho but I think most things in IT take time

[buoyant seal]

I did not try your service, but I would say 5 weeks means you are ghosted

[dense mesa]

Yeah 5 weeks without a response (at least in the UK for lower experience roles) would mean ghosted or rejected to me as well

[violet raven]

Hi everyone, needed some career. So I'm currently doing a job as an Implementation analyst (database and some in-house config) and tbh it's really shitty and taking up most of my time of the day. I want to get into cyber security and have found myself a really promising learning path. The thing is that I want to get out of this job ASAP and want to get into cyber security but to self learn, it's gonna take me around 4-5 months. Should I quit this job and prepare or do it side by side?

[buoyant seal]

What is your age in commercial IT work
What is your education
How big is your money pillow to support you

Like... Estimate the chances to get any job if you quit

If they are really close to zero
It should be safer to learn stuff in a free time, while keeping the job

[violet raven]

I've just graduated with my bachelor's and have about 6 months of experience, and I'm from India

[buoyant seal]

And then seeking cyber security job in parallel

[violet raven]

I've just graduated with my bachelor's and have about 6 months of experience, and I'm from India

[buoyant seal]

So, u have junior chances to get a job, which are pretty low.

Not zero, but really close.
I would recommend to keep the job

[buoyant seal]

Try to find junior cyber security positions while learning at the same time and keeping the job

May be it takes more hours, but it is tough for juniors always

[violet raven]

Okay, the only way i could think of self learn while doing my job is to spend extra time on weekends, like 4-5 hours on sat and sunday.

[violet raven]

Okay

[buoyant seal]

That is always good to do. I started to do it very often, and doing it more than year

[buoyant seal]

A lot people can start themselves in IT, but the one who are valued work and learn hard all the time to reach being professional and keep it this way

[teal cipher]

Gg

[buoyant seal]

Our job is to learn
Our career is to learn

[violet raven]

Well that was inspiring, thank you so much

[analog sun]

Please follow our rule 7 and keep conversations on-topic. Thanks.

[oblique rapids]

ok 🥰

[near ocean]

Dont quit your job until you have another one signed and ready to start

[late fractal]

Hello! Im learning python for like 2 months by myself (i've got python and other programming languages in school, but I feel like a beginner through slight lack of knowledge). I'm planning to work as a back-end and trying to learn what i should know for interviews... And i've got some questions: from what pages should i start learning?(Already learning at Hackerrank, DataCamp, Leetcode. Also i heard that Udemy is good too..) and is that worth to start for interviews at that stage of my knowledge? I'll be thankful for response and advices :))

[buoyant seal]

It would be nice to start from CS degree

Without degree and without commercial experience...

You will need to be a superman, capable to continue self study for at least several years.
Making impressive portfolio in GitHub.
Having dumb luck for someone to accept you to internship or junior position

The step of finding the job is going to be really difficult. CS degree tells organizations you are worthwhile to invest

At best I heard about superman who was able in one year to prepare himself

Internships, juniors... They are all still not real programmers. They are a form of investment to get middle/senior devs who start to do real job

[late fractal]

Im living in country where devs are badly needed, so degrees are less significant. I was looking for jobs on JustJoin and nofluff and saw that employers just wanted the skills you showed at the interview

[buoyant seal]

There are plenty of companies who don't know that though. They can be a chance to learn

[late fractal]

So you are telling that i should learn more and dont focus on interviews for now?

[buoyant seal]

Perhaps. There are two problems

1. Initial screening by recruiters will be more often excluding you until you get enough of commercial exp.
2. it takes time to learn. University teach us that, and puts a wide array of basics into us

[agile turtle]

I know it is possible to live and freelancing but i have never had a proper conversation with one someone who is a full time freelance developer and i feel uncomfortable directly dming someone but i really need to talk to somebody

[buoyant seal]

Not everyone can self study from the beginning.
I learned how to self study during university
It came during the.... Student Life

[buoyant seal]

Good idea to be not dming. It is really rude to do it in cases like that

Ask everyone here, and they will answer when free in async way

[late fractal]

I see... But i dont want to go studying the IT. I prefer learning by myself... And to get commercial experience i need to do some freelance projects, am I right?

[buoyant seal]

It could be a choice.
You can start with pet projects and open source though too

[buoyant seal]

Freelance jobs can be too.... Rare happen

[late fractal]

Rare?

[buoyant seal]

Ideally experience is grinded in full time job, 40 hours per week

[buoyant seal]

Small time occupying?

[agile turtle]

So i am currently studying computer science although i have studied almost all the "typical" university curriculum and have created many projects, i know web dev, but i want to specialise in ml , i am 4th year undergrad student, but i am confused on what to do next , should i learn more doing ms , get a job i feel like i need to learn more and get better but at the same time i need money too

[late fractal]

So I need to find out first 😄 Have you ever participated in job interviews?

[buoyant seal]

From which side of the table?

[late fractal]

Back end

[buoyant seal]

Yes. I got accepted into my second backend job already

[buoyant seal]

#career-advice message

My comments from it

[late fractal]

Grats 🙂 And like i said - im half beginer at python and looking for advices about interviews to know for future. I saw thousandes of videos on yt etc... And everbody giving other aswers

[buoyant seal]

It was not just backend position though. It had major flavour of DevOps. Perfect for me

[late fractal]

and how long that it took to you to learn python overall?

[quasi glacier]

The language itself doesn't provide you a job

[buoyant seal]

Erm. Hard to answer the question.
I would say I still don't know it
Because I am having only a vague understanding of controlling flow of dependencies when building big programs

There a lot of code quality stuff coming with language

[late fractal]

Okay, thanks for advices 🙂

I will study and look for some offers

[buoyant seal]

Just syntax I learned quickly I guess, few weeks, or months.

But I still don't know enough about async ecosystem of libraries for async oriented backend. So I still don't know enough even in this language area

So...
Knowing language = Syntax + exp using all relevant ecosystem of libraries + code quality stuff + knowing language specific idiomas/quirks/best practices

The third thing is longest and hardest. The good news it is transferable between languages ;)

[late fractal]

Thank you again bro 🙂

[fiery rivet]

Hi, I am looking to switch my career from sales/banking to an IT. I don't want to do 4 yr. CS degree, what is most efficient way to switch and become employable within 1 year without it ?

[gilded valley]

what country are you in, what is your current experience?

[fiery rivet]

I am in Canada, I have been working in sales for Mutual funds, Insurance for one of the big banks, started as a customer service 8 years back.

I don't have any IT education and work experience at all.

[vapid jay]

I NEED HELP W MY PROJECT PLSS I BEG SOME1

[ancient star]

Asking a real question might get you better responses. :)

Not trying to be rude, but I see this a lot, and I see it get ignored just as much because there's no real depth to just stating you need help.

[smoky quest]

This channel is about #career-advice .
You may have more luck by checking out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[smoky quest]

Without a degree:

• bootcamp
• self study
• looking for an adjacent job with your skills as a way to get your foot in the door. Less relevant from a sales/banking background though

You may want to target easier jobs like webdev

[vapid jay]

i need help finding output on my project it shows some error its a basic project on pay roll management

[analog sun]

#❓｜how-to-get-help is probably the best place to go, instead of #career-advice

[vapid jay]

ye my bad

[vapid jay]

So recently I started to learn python and its my first language and i just have a question that is it good for first language?

and then i want to learn javascript

[smoky quest]

yes, it's a great first language

[vapid jay]

Thanks for the answer

[dawn estuary]

me 2 i also wanna learn coding and shit

[vapid jay]

Where are you learning? In special school of coding or by yourself

[dawn estuary]

by myself ofc im still a teen

[vapid jay]

Me too

[dawn estuary]

is programming a good career to pursue

[vapid jay]

Are you learning it from Youtube or?

[dawn estuary]

and any courses u can recommend

[vapid jay]

Yes it is

[dawn estuary]

?

[vapid jay]

https://youtu.be/XKHEtdqhLK8

[dawn estuary]

arent there short ones

[vapid jay]

Bro do you want to learn coding or?

[dawn estuary]

yes i wanna but to lazy to watch these 12 hrs long vids

[vapid jay]

So you need to put some effort in it

[ivory talon]

there's one from Free Code Camp that's around 5 hours I think
I wouldn't recommend spending 12 hours in one video, even if across multiple days

[vapid jay]

Idk man but if you think like this i think it would be hard for you to learn something

[dawn estuary]

ur right

[vapid jay]

Bro hes explaining it really good so its worth it

[dawn estuary]

i think i will watch 30 mins a day and practice what he has taught in it

[vapid jay]

Its a good idea but if youre really lazy i think 10mins would be enough at first and then increase amount of time.

[dawn estuary]

hmm ur righ

[vapid jay]

Just try to learn everyday, doesnt matter if its 5mins or 30. Try to not skip a single day

[dawn estuary]

btw can i ask u some questions if uk smthings abt coding

[vapid jay]

Im learning coding rn like you so i think im not that good at it so

[lucid vapor]

@hasty cedar We don't allow recruting here.

[hasty cedar]

sorry

[calm dawn]

So i understand that Algos and Data Structures let us use and refine data in very efficient manners, but how common is it for example that you get assigned "make a stack out of this and find x"? or do Algos & DS just train you to think in a more programatic way?

[true harness]

never. you just use the stack that someone else made which is probably more efficient than whatever you could ever come up with. however, it's very useful to understand how it works, and when it's useful to use a staack

[calm dawn]

So, you DS is to be able to recognize stuff and then implement the code that is way more efficient than yours, but change it to do what you need it to do specifically.... so its mostly re-using solutions?

like >_> im just wondering what a typical request would be for a junior seeing as algos/ds are so prioritized

[true harness]

yeah, for example, sorting. you'll never write your own sorting algo (except maybe to learn sorting algos), because people much smarter than you have spent a long time optimizing them.

[smoky quest]

That happens very frequently when the system is a bit beyond the basic crud app

[smoky quest]

• "Hey, I need to visualize the differences between these two pieces of information, including this giant text"
• "Hey, I need spider/crawl through some data but want to limit the breadth and avoid duplicates"
• "Hey, Users need to be able to send us some data, but it's chunked and chunks can fail and they need to be reassembled in the backend afterward. And we need to deal with failures at every point"
• "Hey we need to route some flow of information and need to match users. Can we find the best servers for these groups of users?"
• "Hey we need to implement rate limit for our services. How would you go about it?"

[eternal mist]

If I were to look for machine learning roles, would a CV role be available?

Computer vision is somthing that I want to do and I think the job prospects are great, its just that what should I use CV for

Would augmented reality use CV?

[calm dawn]

i understand some of the words you said haha... although i can see how those are common things you would want to do

[dense mesa]

You don't necessarily need ML to do CV, it's quite "manual" compared to ML

[eternal mist]

Would I need Deep learning then?

[quiet folio]

where do i ask for help?

[near ocean]

#❓｜how-to-get-help and #python-discussion

[smoky quest]

Sure, but the tl;dr is the ds/algo are the basic blocks of all these complex things.
What you hear in the interviewed is the most abstract and simplest way to package these problems

[zealous quarry]

Hi guys,
I can program in a variety of languages at an intermediate level, what is the best way to demonstrate to recruiters/employers what I can do?
I have a github with a Lua project and about 8000 lines of code, but its becoming increasingly obvious that employers don't want to take the risk of employing someone without 'demonstrable experience' in C or Python or application of some machine learning algorithm
dummy projects? courses? any advice?

[smoky quest]

All of the above.
Your resume should be compelling enough to stand out and get a call back.
And you should then be able to answer well enough in the interview panels to make them feel comfortable about your skills

You should also try to adapt to your target role. Unless your target job uses extensively lua, that wouldn't really make you super appealing

[zealous quarry]

its a high level scripting language and is virtually absent of any difference to Python

both are built on C

[smoky quest]

As an employer, why would I care? does lua runs django or flask?

Employers will care about demonstrated skills that are relevant to them

[summer roost]

Lua is a very different from Python. It's a much less complex language, with a smaller standard library and much smaller 3rd party library ecosystem. It's designed for embedding in a way that Python is not, in part because of the language's relative simplicity and the interfaces it exposes.

[smoky quest]

Just to make sure it's out there: if you are still in high school or in an age where going to college is fine, then going to college will be the simplest and easiest path

[summer roost]

Seriously, once you do start getting interviews, saying that Lua is "virtually absent of any difference to Python" would be a good way to demonstrate that you don't know either language well.

[zealous quarry]

let me correct myself, the core skillset required to program in either is almost the same

[summer roost]

Sure, but that's essentially true for any imperative languages

[zealous quarry]

I am a working professional in Bioinformatics

[summer roost]

So you haven't learned Python yet?

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/ is a very fast introduction to the major features and patterns of the Python language. If you already know an OOP language or 2, you can probably follow it and learn most of the important stuff about the Python language in a day.

[smoky quest]

you would be tested on a demonstrated set of skills.
So people may ask you about python, how to use DB from python and so forth.
Saying you can acquire these skills will not be relevant to the interview since other candidates will be able to demonstrate these skills. Betting on people believing you can acquire them at some point in the future if you want to, is a pretty big bet.

[summer roost]

One of my favorite interview questions for newer programmers is to ask them what the two programming languages they know best are, and then ask them to compare and contrast those languages for me. You can pretty quickly spot when someone is able to identify the major differences between the languages' execution models and domains and patterns, or when their knowledge of the languages is relatively superficial and doesn't rise above syntax

[zealous quarry]

I finally understand that which is why I am asking how I can demonstrate these skills
I am finding it difficult to strike a balance between specializing and maintaining a generalized portfolio of experience to maximize my employment potential

[smoky quest]

degrees, professional experience or relevant projects are the main routes.
Since you are in bioinformatics, the closer to that, the easier it will be for you to link these

[zealous quarry]

I'm looking to increase my proficiency in Python and document this proficiency for the purpose of passing the interview, experience in Python specifically is pretty common but it is often only one detail among many

[smoky quest]

Note that python is a tool, not an end in itself. They will care more about what they do with it

So the projects don't necessarily have to be a copy of their business, but they should contain some skills that are relevant to their business

[summer roost]

I wouldn't assume that a more generalized portfolio maximizes your employment potential. I think a portfolio that is specialized in the languages and tools that are most heavily used by bio tech and bio informatics would give much better return on investment, given your existing expertise

[zealous quarry]

its not that I am specifically getting rejected due to lack of demonstrable experience in Python, far from it (I am a Mathematician without a background in biology, so that is often the limiting factor)
but I don't want to be in the situation where an employer cannot be confidence in my programming ability (or capability)

[smoky quest]

Your programming ability will be demonstrated through some projects and through the interviews they will put you through

[zealous quarry]

I'm working on an image recognition and OCR pipeline with CV2 at the moment, its a lot of fun but I was hoping for something that was a little more challenging than; importing the right module, selecting the right algorithm and providing it with the data, or is this all there is to it?

[summer roost]

That's a better question for #data-science-and-ml than here

[zealous quarry]

thanks

[smoky quest]

(but yes, there is more to it)

[zealous quarry]

any advice on learning more about C/C++? or should I not ask that here

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to think about it the other way around: What is your target jobs and what skills do they require?

[zealous quarry]

some ask for experience or exposure, sometimes minimal, to C
It is something I would like to get into

not least of all because I hope it would reinforce my ability to program in other languages

[dense mesa]

Computer vision (at least traditionally) is meant to process stuff without complex models or techniques. You use ML/DL/etc when you wanna make sense of the scene, but CV gets you the actual data in the first place

[fluid geyser]

I'm a 16yr old, and I've been programing for the better part of five years now and I want to begin my career in programing as soon as possible. What kind of job opportunities are available to people my age, or what are some ways I could my skills to make money. Currently, offering private tutoring is all I can think off, but no way to really advertise it. Any advice or ideas from people who know the industry a bit more?

[zealous quarry]

Country?

[fluid geyser]

Canada, Ontario

[zealous quarry]

I would consider internships or apprenticeships at that age in the UK, certainly you want to get commercial experience
as has been said before; there is a lot more to a career than just programming
do you know what industry you might like to go in to?

[fluid geyser]

I'm not entirely sure but im open to everything, I'm hoping to learn when I get a big more workplace experience.

I enjoy algorithms and backend alot.

[summer roost]

I haven't actually read through this, and it's still alpha quality, but I love this author's ability to explain stuff: https://beej.us/guide/bgc/

other than that, my recommendation would be to learn C reasonably well before even attempting to learn C++.

[zealous quarry]

wow thanks a lot

[fluid geyser]

What kind of intern ships do you think would be even be available?

[summer roost]

at least in the US, internships for high school students are quite rare - they're much more common for university students.

[fluid geyser]

What does that leave available you think?

[summer roost]

tutoring is reasonable. You might be able to get a job doing some automation or tech support at a small business, or do some freelancing - though freelancing is likely to be fairly low pay.

[fluid geyser]

The low pay is more then fine, I'm prioritizing experience right now.

The issues is how would I go about advertising that. I like the idea of automation and tech support for small business, any ideas on how do get involved with something like that?

[zealous quarry]

may I suggest LinkedIn? (for a start)

[summer roost]

if the goal is knowledge, not money, then just continuing to learn on your own and building a broad knowledge base in preparation for university is the better way to go.

Any jobs that you get while in high school won't matter at all to any employers who hire you after university.

[fluid geyser]

I see, I still need a source of income sooner rather then later though I want to make it something I enjoy instead of working somewhere I don't enjoy

[zealous quarry]

this is ambitious, given your age

[fluid geyser]

How do you mean?

[flint quest]

hi im new to python

[summer roost]

then #career-advice is probably not the right channel for you 🙂

[flint quest]

oh

srry i wasnt paying attention to the channel lol

[zealous quarry]

I might be wrong and I can't know exactly what you can and can't do yet but my guess is that employers expect a minimum level of maturity from a candidate as well as programming ability in all but the most exceptional of circumstances
of course, I heard a youtube channel can be very lucrative

and you can make money tutoring people practically anything, get a business card and a website? google is your friend

[fluid geyser]

I see

[zealous quarry]

I was in the kitchen at your age 😛

[fluid geyser]

When you say YouTube, do you mean tutorials?

Or fun projects that of stuff people would like to see?

[zealous quarry]

Yes or anything you like
I mean, making money on YouTube is about views and viewer retention, so basically anything people will click on and watch
disclaimer: I have videos online in completely different areas but I haven't looked into monetization
even in the most ideal scenario, maintaining a YouTube channel will only grant passive income, you could sink hours into making videos and they don't 'make money' or only after long periods of time

[fluid geyser]

Thank you, this whole discussion was extremely helpful and I apricate all the advice you guys provided.

The takeaway I got from this was I should wait a little while longer and hone my skills more until before applying for jobs.

[zealous quarry]

I don't know how it works in Canada but you can still apply for jobs and you should, you can find out directly from the employer what they are looking for in a candidate
as I said above you might have plenty of programming experience but lack 'working in a team experience' -or something

[fluid geyser]

I will definitely set up a linkind in to begin.

[summer roost]

fiverr and upwork are freelancing platforms you could look into.

[fluid geyser]

I will, thank you.

[vapid jay]

Hi, I have a unique situation. I have a programmer job yet I feel like I'm weak at it due to lacking peripheral knowledge so I've been taking online courses when I'm not working to learn topics I don't know well. Would you guys recommend I continue to focus on the courses/external resources or should I focus more on learning the company internal stuff (in my off-time)?

[agile turtle]

I am learning blockchain , i have some machine learning projects on my github i have also done a little competitive coding , if i apply to a job what kind of job could i get , please share from your experience

i have also done fastai course apart from my school course , should i add it on my resume ?

[delicate bane]

you should probably choose a focus/specialty, bud

[smoky quest]

Whatever makes you happy and gets you closer to your goal.
Learning about peripheral things to your job can be a good thing or not so great depending on what you want to optimize for. But regardless, that won't be wasted time

[smoky quest]

Any reason to not aim for college/university?

[vapid jay]

tbh, learning from external resources makes me happier...but I know its probably better to learn from actual professionals in a real world application

cough don't like my coworkers..

[smoky quest]

depends where you are at in your career.
If you are employed, you are technically a professional

[vapid jay]

i'm extremely early career so I know that this is what I need to do at this point

[smoky quest]

You also don't necessarily have to put hours in the same things you do during your day. You can also do things related to your job but didn't get time to get into.
Anything is fair game

[vapid jay]

ah, I guess I never really thought about doing that before. I always thought I had to churning out work hours for the same things so thats why afterhours were always for other stuff (aka personal learning)

[vapid jay]

hi. i need help

anyone care to help? if so, then pls dm me.

[smoky quest]

just ask your question? It's faster and more efficient

[vapid jay]

no. its long

[smoky quest]

you are gonna have to type it at least once anyway

[vapid jay]

just dm me

[smoky quest]

I don't do DM unless it's highly personal or shameful or could doxx someone

[vapid jay]

hey guys i need some adivce

so i want to be a data scientist and i am choosing colleges with courses now

they offer coursed like Computer Science and Computer Science with applied maths

what is better.... like one of my friend said that the one with applied maths is more convenient! and that makes me get confused

[smoky quest]

They would both be applicable, but the devil is in the details. It would make sense however for the more math heavy one to provide some sort of advantage

Sounds like a question for #data-science-and-ml ?

[vapid jay]

Sure. Let me post this there.

[vapid jay]

Thanks

[smoky quest]

no need to delete it 😉

[vapid jay]

what do you guys consider a realistic toxic work environment that would make an early career programmer want to stay because of the "experience" but they should honestly leave because its toxic

[smoky quest]

that's so vague and open to so many hypotheticals that it is difficult to answer. Do you have a specific situation in mind?

[vapid jay]

yeah, a work environment where none of your coworkers respect you or think you're competent to do the work but you really want to stay because theres a lot to learn and the projects are very interesting

[smoky quest]

that can be indeed toxic.
There is a lot to learn in many other places and one can do much better in a more supportive environment. But I can't comment on the specific nature of your projects. Just be aware that there are a lot of interesting companies and products out there 🙂

[vapid jay]

true

its hard to find an environment like that though, from the outside looking inward. Sure, glassdoor and probing the interviewers are good to do but you never really know until you're in the trenches

i just really hope I'm not jumping into another toxic environment when i do decide to hop

[smoky quest]

At current job:

• You could talk about it with your manager to get their point of view and how they could help

If looking for another job:

• There are behavioral questions you could ask during interviews
• As you mentioned, there are websites like blind and glassdoor you can use

[vapid jay]

👍 Also, thank you for answering my questions. You've been very helpful. Appreciate it.

[smoky quest]

np

[smoky quest]

There are three main things I want to convey here:

• Toxic environments are not normal and not the norm
• Be very careful about your mental health. That kind of toxic environment can have some impact in how you look at things and your general happiness
• From my experience, it's not worth putting up with assholes. There are way too many interesting people and projects and opportunities out there

[vapid jay]

😢 uh...guess I have serious considerations to do...

[brittle thorn]

I have met and worked with a few interesting projects with interesting aholes sadly and left eventually....there are charistmatic narcissistic leaders in a few tech startups some well known. I did leave that startup over principles ... look for a company with core values that align to yours... Be careful of interesting people

See https://www.inc.com/john-eades/research-on-hundreds-of-companies-showed-that-toxic-cultures-have-these-characteristics.html

[smoky quest]

I have worked on interesting projects with both great people and assholes. The ones with great people ended up being not only more enjoyable but also more interesting, which I assume is also due to the increased collaboration and general sense of camaraderie.
And over multiple times, I have experienced that projects with assholes are just not worth the hassle.

[mental wraith]

hello i dont know if this is the right channel to post this is but are there any guidelines for becoming an ethical hacker . also maybe a roadmap of what i should actually start learning in python first like a - z sorry to bother but any feedback is greatly appreciated

[peak halo]

this channel is appropriate for asking about career advice. you might also get answers in the #cybersecurity channel.

we also have resources on our website that could help you learn Python in general. We don't have any security-related resources at the moment.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hazy quiver]

k

[honest goblet]

Hi guys i got an interview for data analyst coming up next week and they have asked me to analyse a csv file the day before the interview i was wondering if anyone has any tips?

[near ocean]

Analyse it how? What kind of tips are you looking for?

[peak halo]

did they give you any instruction beyond that? sounds like they want you to do exploratory data analysis.

[honest goblet]

uh they literally said they will send me a csv and i gotta analyse it within an hour

[honest goblet]

maybe some libraries or something

[peak halo]

do you know how to use pandas? that's the main library for manipulating CSV data. it's nice to use in an IPython repl.

[honest goblet]

ive used pandas before but

[near ocean]

Yea not that qualified but it seems to me that pandas and matplotlib are core data analysis packages

[honest goblet]

just to import and store as a dataframe

[peak halo]

how soon is this going to happen?

[honest goblet]

next monday

[peak halo]

as in the 28th? in either case, I would download some CSVs from kaggle.com and practice manipulating them with pandas and identifying insights that are available in that data.

[honest goblet]

what do you think of seaborn?

[honest goblet]

ive heard of kaggle! ill look into that tomorrow sure

[peak halo]

I've heard it's a simplified version of matplotlib, or something like that. but it's for making data visualizations. it won't help you discover things in the data that you don't already know.

but once you have discovered something interesting, you can make a visualization that conveys what that interesting thing is.

[honest goblet]

i think my main fear is my stats is really weak (havent done it in years?) so idk what i can sort of insights i can get from the data

[peak halo]

hard to say without knowing what kind of data it will be. it might be that once you know, you'll be able to guess intuitively what sorts of insights you should be looking for, and work backwards from there.

[honest goblet]

well its a csv so isnt that the same as excel? wouldnt it be more likely they want some scatter plot or something

considering data cleaning is probably gonna be a part of it

[flat vessel]

someone help i joined beacause i thought it was a discord about snakes

[delicate bane]

probably if youre more comfortable/faster in excel then you should probably just use excel to do so. check out alex freberg's content on youtube for crash course on data analysis

[honest goblet]

"alex the analyst"?

[delicate bane]

yep yep

best of luck on your interview btw

[honest goblet]

thanks bro ill need it

[delicate bane]

haha if you need technical help or stats help, you can ask me in #data-science-and-ml

[honest goblet]

can i ping you?

[delicate bane]

sure

[honest goblet]

ill keep that in mind thanks man 😄 ill try not to tho i think i got this

my technical stuff might be better than my stats so yeah ill might ping i just wont be able to do the correct "statistics" on it

what do you think of the coursera courses he has recommened on his channel there is one called data analysis with python

[delicate bane]

i dont think you have time before your interview. if i were you, i would just practice analyzing datasets so that you would be comfortable with whatever dataset they throw at you or at the very least have a standard approach you apply to the dataset

get very comfortable with EDA

[honest goblet]

ok i get that, but what if i cant do "statistics" on it

i literally just know plot on a graph and find a gradient

[delicate bane]

ok lets chat in #data-science-and-ml before we flood this channel with stats

[verbal mantle]

Hello, I'm thinking about mobile/android application which requires some AI and i wonder, should i consider learning others languages to create the project, or just try to use python with some libraries.

[smoky quest]

It goes back to if you think python with some libraries is the best tool for the job given the current context.
Is it the best decision to achieve your goal? Would there be alternative paths which may (or may not) yield better outcomes?

For instance, have you evaluated how easy it is to make a mobile app with python? Would a mobile app be the best vehicle for your product/idea or would a website suffice?

imho, I would look first at doing a webapp and if I really require a real mobile app, then flutter/react native. That would also go beyond the scope of this channel

[quaint lily]

So id like to do computer science at uni, and i would like to become a dev, maybe software idk. Is there a specific course i should take? And is there anywhere in the UK that would be a good place to start an internship or a job that anybody knows of?

[peak halo]

Software, as opposed to what?

[true harness]

hardware?

[quaint lily]

Software, web dev, both backend and frontend as well as hardware mentioned above

Tbh im not rlly fussed, any coding job would be fine

[peak halo]

You wouldn't be designing hardware if you were pursuing a computer science degree anyhow.

At least in the US, taking the most advanced math courses available to you and AP computer science would do the most to help you get into a CS program. I'm not too sure what the equivalent would be in the UK.

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, lurker here.

Is there any free or cheap resources for testing if IT is the right career path for me?

I want to try something out and see if it's a career I could do, but Comptia+ courses are the only thing I see recommended fairly often to assess my compatibility with this career field.

I don't want to toss 130 usd into a test to find out that I wouldn't mesh well with the material.

[junior ocean]

Anyone have experience with AWS and python?

[smoky quest]

They are pretty useful for a career, especially if related to cloud or backend

[smoky quest]

I don't have anything concrete to suggest other than trying it out yourself 🙂
You can sort of experience a lot of it by deploying your own network and server at home

[prime pivot]

For career are both Flask and Django popular enough? I am about to start a course on one of those but not sure which one yet.

[undone willow]

I know your not the person to ask but does it matter too much to a company hiring if you have one listed but not the other? Is it hard to learn Django after using flask?

[prime pivot]

No idea, I've never touched these 2 frameworks yet

[smoky quest]

Depends on your definition of enough. They are popular and have many opportunities.
The typical recommendation is check your local market and available jobs with these frameworks

[prime pivot]

Ah, good tip, will do that!

[smoky quest]

it depends.
If you are looking for someone with backend skills, the specific framework does not matter.
If you are looking for someone who is already an expert in a very specific framework, then it may matter. This is more rare though but totally a personal opinion

[delicate bane]

if you think youre serious about it, consider doing your A levels in computer science/maths

[elder patio]

hi guys!

[exotic quest]

hello

[buoyant seal]

Flask to Django transition is more or less smooth. Both are Sync First frameworks, so ecosystem of libraries mostly the same.
The only difference that you need to learn all the inbuilt Django things to be not reinventing the wheel, including Django Rest Framework modification.

Django is having battery included approach, everything is attached from the beginning to it. No need to install all the extra libraries like in Flask
It can be harder to get used than flask though for a beginner, because u need to know a bit more what you are doing, but at the same time Django is easier, because it forces you to certain thinking inside the box, less room for mistakes to make

I estimate the python frameworks like:
Beginner - Flask (Zero effort to begin, total unlimited freedom what you do, harder to continue in big code base for beginners)
Medium - Django (Nice for fastest development, restricted to thinking inside the Box and its not async friendly ORM which is promised in a future to become async)
Expert - FastAPI 😉 (More or less a bit more freedom what you use than in Django, but less than in Flask, async first framework with higher performance results, and still giving a lot of out of the box things and enforces different stuff to improve your code quality)

[undone willow]

Meanwhile me over here struggling to get my flask working lol. Thank you all for the input

[quaint lily]

I plan to do computer science, ive heard a lot of computer science students do maths but is it necessary?

[solid plover]

It's not

[gilded valley]

Many good universities require maths for a-level. Many courses also require a couple of maths units, but it's not necessarily as mathsy as some people make out

[summer roost]

Computer science is math, but in a form so abstract that most people wouldn't recognize it as such

[graceful mason]

It can also depend on what you end up doing - a lot of computer science applications can require a working knowledge of maths/physics to some degree (e.g. robotics, data analysis)

[quaint lily]

I see, guess ill do it then if most unis appreciate it

[gilded valley]

Check out a few universities that appeal to you and see what they ask for. If you don't know any that appeal to you just Google for the league tables and pick cities that sound nice and are near the top of the tables

[quaint lily]

Thanks for the advice

[smoky quest]

yes, there is a reason universities require it. It will be useful for your career.
That said it's not that bad and it's a lot more interesting since it more grounded in concrete topics

[quaint lily]

I see, that sounds interesting

[gilded valley]

yes, there is a reason universities require it. It will be useful for your career.

This is definitely not a universal, or even necessarily majority, opinion amongst software developers or CS grads

[smoky quest]

This is the case in the circles I run in though.

[gilded valley]

You're saying it's a universal thing that software developers and CS graduates found the maths from their degrees useful?

[smoky quest]

that is not what I said. The same way I cannot claim everyone think the earth is not flat

[gilded valley]

Sure. Some miscommunication then. Are you saying you personally have found the maths useful, or making a broader claim saying that most people find it useful?

[smoky quest]

I do find the math useful and do also make the claim that many people do find them useful.

I will also add the claim that universities do have math on their curriculum because they are also deemed useful

[vapid jay]

hello

[blissful hollow]

What is Google Java, Google Frontend?
For context, there are internships in fields of :.NET, PHP, BI Backend (Azure), BI Backend (AWS), Java, Google Java Google Frontend, Frontend, BI Frontend

[dense mesa]

Computer science at uni has a lot of maths, and most Russell Group unis (other than like Leeds and another I think) require a level maths for entry

[near ocean]

where did you see this

[dense mesa]

As mentioned, look at the unis you're trying to get into and see what the requirements are. I'm not implying Russell group unis are better, but they mostly require a level maths (+ further preferably) so keep that in mind if you're applying there

[deep lotus]

help

anyone

[near ocean]

#❓｜how-to-get-help / #python-discussion
Also reading what a channel is about helps...

[deep lotus]

sry dude more info i need help where to start all i know is a bit of html and css is there any beginner level 0 help

[blissful hollow]

It's a internship programme offered from one Company.

[vapid jay]

Hey everyone,
I'm currently in the process of completing my undergraduate studies in BIT Information Systems with my elective stream being in Data Science Management. I would like to make a successful career out of this and be the best and most capable programmer I can be. I am going into a Data Science field but would like to expand into AI and Machine Learning and become an expert in these fields.
• I would like some advice, should I learn Data Science or Machine Learning first on the side, while pursuing my degree? Which will improve my career choices and programming experience, also which one will be the more fun and creative field in terms of projects?
• How do I become an expert in the field of Machine Learning as to the point where I could start up a profitable business from it?
• Is it necessary to learn machine learning and AI in this field and is it prevalent in Data Science?
• How do I make a successful career out of Machine Learning/AI?
• How do I become an expert in the least time possible and what should I dedicate most of my time learning?
• For portfolio's, what is recommended for display purposes to showcase my skills?
• Do I need a master’s degree or PhD?
• How do I get a master’s degree in the field of Artificial Intelligence with my undergraduate degree?
Best regards.

[fallen wharf]

• I would like some advice, should I learn Data Science or Machine Learning first on the side, while pursuing my degree? Which will improve my career choices and programming experience, also which one will be the more fun and creative field in terms of projects?
Sure if you have the time make something fun like a card game where the cards are automatically generated with tensorflow/pytorch.
• How do I become an expert in the field of Machine Learning as to the point where I could start up a profitable business from it?
No, with a BSCS you can get a machine learning job at a fortune 500 company and rake in the cash.
• Is it necessary to learn machine learning and AI in this field and is it prevalent in Data Science?
No, SQL is extremely powerful and with a little bit of python it will solve 90% of problems.
• How do I make a successful career out of Machine Learning/AI?
Good question I would do hacker rank and buy the book cracking the coding interview. Also google common quesions that interviewers ask about AI.
• How do I become an expert in the least time possible and what should I dedicate most of my time learning?
It took me nine years to become an expert in cloud services/python. You dont want to spend less time you want to spend more time doing AI the more you learn the more you earn.
• For portfolio's, what is recommended for display purposes to showcase my skills?
• Do I need a master’s degree or PhD?
If you do hackerrank you wont have to get these.
• How do I get a master’s degree in the field of Artificial Intelligence with my undergraduate degree?
Look at answer above.

[peak halo]

@vapid jay your degree is in information systems and data science management? Not computer science and data science itself?

[vapid jay]

@peak halo Yeah, BIT Information Systems, with electives in statistics and business (up until my final year), hence the term for my elective stream being Data Science Management

[analog sun]

This server is not an ad board or a place for recruiting. Thanks.

[delicate bane]

its not necessary no. if you dont see yourself doing the math one, thats ok. better to just focus and do well on the comp sci one instead. double check your uni's admissions requirements tho

[whole dove]

Apologies. Thought that was a benefit to the community

[whole dove]

Do you know a good place for this?

[ivory sluice]

check the channel description
https://www.python.org/jobs/
https://www.pythonjobshq.com/

this is at least your 2nd time posting recruitment messages and being asked not to. so no more please

[frosty terrace]

What's the best place to find a job? LinkedIn seems to be filled with scammers.

[sullen fern]

Is it a good idea to use the official Python tutorial for learning Python in the first place?

[vapid jay]

heyy

does anyone know the difference between computer engineer and a computer sci engineer

i am a but confused regarding and i have to be choosing courses for my collg

[hallow rose]

Have no experience with AWS which certification should I study for>

[cobalt acorn]

Solution Architect Associate is a great beginner cert

[hallow rose]

Thanks, any recommended resources?

[cobalt acorn]

AcloudGuru is good or Udemy courses

[analog sun]

Hello, this channel is not for recruiting, as per the channel topic. Posting your resume without context isn't needed

[quaint lily]

Will do, thanks for the advice

[dense mesa]

Computer engineers usually work closer to hardware than software engineers

[vapid jay]

Owh....

[magic flint]

I honestly just want to make some random software with python has a career

[round bridge]

where to learn python to be a professional?

[smoky quest]

School is a great place if you have the opportunity.
Otherwise there are bootcamps and self-learning routes

[errant olive]

@round bridge try this: https://www.freecodecamp.org/

[winged bay]

Where can I get someone whos good at coding in python to look at my code from a different perspective and tell me what im doing wrong? would reddit be a good place?

[narrow kettle]

There is Upwork too, maybe you can try to mail people that may need your skiils

[narrow kettle]

Pick a help channel #help-carrot

[delicate bane]

is it just me or does it seem like theres way more software jobs than hardware

[smoky quest]

The surface area of software is larger than the surface area of hardware. The investments required are also smaller

[peak halo]

@verbal hollow we don't allow that kind of advertising, so I had to remove your messages related to that. DM @severe widget with questions, if you have any

[verbal hollow]

ok u asked tho

[peak halo]

your answer exposed your underlying intentions. would your answer have been different if someone else asked?

[verbal hollow]

No I wasn't trying to spam I'm looking for like-minded people with an interest in Quantum Computing. You asked why so I told you what my community is based upon. Pretty simple. Was trying to meet ppl fam

[delicate bane]

[peak halo]

@verbal hollow right, but if your intention is to suggest that people with a shared interest in QC join this other community, that's against our rules. If you have any questions about that, please DM @severe widget.

[verbal hollow]

I just want to tell them about the community they can join if they want. Seems like a relevant topic tbh. Happy to answer ppls questions without them joining in here or dms or whatever. My first question didnt violate the rules u started a convo and my second msg violated the rules which is fair and I didnt realize

[peak halo]

Please DM @severe widget if you want to continue.

[verbal hollow]

Anyone interested in Quantum Computing? feel free to ask me any questions!

[smoky quest]

What's the context for this question?

(fyi, it's not great to lie on your gaps, there are always ways to make it sounds nicer or more professional)

[peak halo]

unless the reason for the gap is something like "I couldn't hold a job" or "I kept leaving jobs [and might leave this one, too]", whatever reason you have for there being a gap is probably fine.

[patent lava]

How bad does it look if a resume has a job lasting only 6months

[spare zinc]

nevertheless it's the job you had

[dense mesa]

Yeah there's generally the trend (at least in the UK and EU), hardware has less opportunities than software

[patent lava]

what are some good tech agencies that will help with job searching?

[peak halo]

I've never heard of an agency that will help with job hunting. just job boards.

[near ocean]

there's a ton of recruitment agencies that help you with job searching
you make a profile with them, you update your details/cv and then they match you with one of their managers and they help get opportunities to you

[winged merlin]

is the bot ModMail hosted ?

[peak halo]

sounds like a question for #community-meta, but it's a clone of the repo on github that we deploy (with a few adjustments, I think).

[winged merlin]

alright

thanks man appreciate it

[vapid jay]

im kinda smoll in height so idk what to do

im good at programming and i wanna teach other people, seems unlikely that it will be stable as a choice tho

[dense mesa]

?

[vapid jay]

allegedly

i am smoll

[smoky quest]

If you have one such job, it's not a problem.
If you have multiple such jobs, then that would raise a flag

[smoky quest]

There are some accessible setups for people with disabilities. That may or may not require specialized hardware depending on your needs (ex: keyboard, mouse, chairs, other interfaces...)

[true harness]

there aren't really any physical barriers to anything comp sci related, so you're fine

[cyan spear]

hey im new to coding, any pointers on where i should staart

[ivory sluice]

pls check out #❓｜how-to-get-help or #python-discussion for these questions :)

[cyan spear]

thanks! xx

[vapid jay]

What's a good place to find freelance gigs for python engineering?

[patent lava]

I just found out about toptal

[vapid jay]

why would businesses hire python coders if they use windows exe files more 🤨 and i feel like them downloading exe files would be easier then downloading python on every system

[smoky quest]

the python you download is an exe 😄

But if I understand correctly the underlying question, an exe is shorthand for executable. It's a program already written.
The point to hire python coders is so that they can write a custom program for you because that program doesn't exist

Python is a very powerful language as it enables anyone to make their own programs.

[dark arrow]

also not every program you write is going to be shipped to the end user
it can be an internal tool, the backend of a website etc

[summer roost]

The overwhelming majority of programs in the world are not Windows .exe files.

[delicate bane]

windows .exe files are looking less popular as time goes on tbh...

[buoyant seal]

you know that you can compile python programms into exe, which is not requiring installed python? 😆
https://pyinstaller.readthedocs.io/en/stable/operating-mode.html

[jaunty nest]

I've learned quite a bit of python and I'm looking to start earning but I'm not sure what path to go down i want to do something i can do from home and work sorta part time while i still study any suggestions ?

[shell shale]

is someone an independent entrepreneur with a website

or knows someone like that

[near ocean]

why? do you have a question in mind?

[shell shale]

i have to make a report about an independent entrepreneur

its for school

[sharp thunder]

Hi guys, just finished learning Django and python and want to start doing projects to build my GitHub. If I’m trying to be a junior python devop, would i need to be doing advanced projects? Or can I do intermediate ones if any suggestions?

[worn turtle]

Best intro to python resources ? Or. YouTube channels. Books, I like books! Free resources are kewwwwlll

[analog sun]

!resources - check the link in the embed below. Also, this channel is for career discussions.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[worn turtle]

Thanks yah I meant like. Resources that will allow me to work in the realm of python. Like enough to jive with programmers.

[tulip tree]

is information technology degree worth it?

[dense mesa]

Gonna need way more context to give a meaningful answer. Which location, what's your previous experience, what do you want to do, etc

[peak halo]

depends on your location and what kinds of jobs you want to be competitive for. in the US, a computer science degree will make you more competitive for developer positions (and in some cases would be required) than would an IT degree. Someone with an IT degree would be more likely to work in support positions (updating the software for all the computers at a company, helping other employees with malfunctioning software, setting up new hardware).

[tulip tree]

I'm doing a vocational IT course in college

[dense mesa]

Are you able to answer the other questions? Can't give much advice based on that

[tulip tree]

IDK what specific job I want, but I want to work in tech

[tulip tree]

I live in between Asia and UK

[tulip tree]

and IDK what specific tech job I want but I want to work in tech

[peak halo]

so, Europe? we're not trying to dox you; just need to get a sense for what conditions you're working within.

[dense mesa]

If you get a CS degree, you can work in software, IT, any tech role basically. If you get an IT degree, you'll be more limited

[tulip tree]

Not physically

[tulip tree]

I move between Asia and UK

[peak halo]

If you live somewhere that you have to pay for education, I wouldn't even enroll until you know what it is that you want to do.

[tulip tree]

both places u have to pay for education

is IT flexible like comp sci

[dense mesa]

Software engineering (not CS) is typically gonna be more flexible than an IT role

A lot of UK unis will require you stay in the country during the course though, they have monitoring/attendance points for this too

[tulip tree]

r u from uk?

[dense mesa]

Yeah I'm about to graduate with a bachelor's in engineering

[tulip tree]

I'm doing a btec level 3 national extended diploma in IT

[dense mesa]

Does that fulfill the entry requirements for a CS degree

[tulip tree]

yes

[dense mesa]

Are you sure? When I was applying on UCAS, btecs were counted as only one a level each

[tulip tree]

yes u can check

[dense mesa]

Alright then I would personally recommend applying for CS for the options you get

[tulip tree]

u would say comp sci is very flexible right?

[dense mesa]

That completely depends on what you mean by flexible: the teaching of the course, the career prospects, the work itself etc. If you're not specific with your questions, I can't be specific with answers

[tulip tree]

flexible as in with job prospects

[dense mesa]

Then yeah, generally speaking (from a UK perspective) a CS degree will have way more options and flexibility than an IT degree

[tulip tree]

k ty for ur help

[worn turtle]

Do you think having a degree in educational technology can work with python programmers?

[dense mesa]

?

[worn turtle]

like... do you think its possible to work with people who do python?

[delicate bane]

why dont you just become a python programmer yourself..?

[vapid jay]

thanks for letting me know guys

[dense mesa]

I'm not understanding the question, why would you need a degree to work with python programmers?

[vast spire]

How do you become a data analyst?

[eternal mist]

What has more opportunity Cybersecurity/blockchain or AI/Machine learning.
Also what are the salary differences from these two

[robust atlas]

what are some good python projects for resume when applying for job? Thanks for help!

[glacial hinge]

anyone from csus

[robust atlas]

so the project is done while pursuing degree and has to be done through my university courses? not a personal on my own?

[glacial hinge]

who is pursuing

Bachelor's in computer science

[robust atlas]

yes

so i should find some python projects to do through some of my courses ? i thought they have to be done on my own

[vapid jay]

hello house

how do i grow my coding skill?

i recently started coding and want make something out of it

[delicate bane]

oh man this is really question hour, huh?

[peak halo]

@glacial hinge it's better to ask your actual question then to ask for people. no one knows why you're asking for CS students until you ask your actual question.

[delicate bane]

where are you in your career/education rn? i recommend checking out shashank or alex the analyst on youtube since they both have good career advice for this

[delicate bane]

they both have lots of opportunities but can be difficult to break into if you dont have experience. you can check glassdoor or similar websites for salaries

[young ferry]

yoo im a highschool graduate (2021) and i just learned the basics of python lol i was wondering if there are any advanced courses i can learn off of to be an "intermediate"

[ancient star]

Is it considered rude here to link to don't ask to ask?

Because I think it's actually helpful.

[near ocean]

It is, not that people would bother reading it even if you did link it

[ancient star]

That's fair, and good to know. :) I enjoyed reading it myself lol.

[vernal ocean]

hey i need help

[near ocean]

Bruh, just ask your question
This is the careers channel, if you want help with python #python-discussion, #❓｜how-to-get-help and #rules

[vernal ocean]

i wanna become a computer engineer and there are two options in computer if you wanna choose I.T or A.I what should i pick

in our school

[near ocean]

Wdym there are two options, the computing industry is all-encompassing, it and ai are just small slices of it

[vernal ocean]

i wanna do B.Tech in computer

ok so should i pck I.T

I am in 8th standard

[near ocean]

Is this about university courses or highschoolcourses

[vernal ocean]

yes

sorry high school courses

[azure heart]

!sm set 10s

[inner wren]

✅ The slowmode delay for #career-advice is now 10 seconds.

[near ocean]

Ah, ok you might wanna mention which region of the world youre in so others can help
Im not exactly sure what goes on in HS classes nowadays

[vernal ocean]

i live in india

i need to give answer to my teacher tomorrow

[near ocean]

Im not indian or in india so i cant help
Have you talked to your teachers about this? Or your guidance counselor or something equivalent?

Would also help if you read the syllabus for each course

[vernal ocean]

yeah i talked about it with my computer teacher

[glacial hinge]

Anybody in virtual reality career field and pursing it

[vernal ocean]

but she also couldn't really tell the difference

i will get the syllabus after i choose the subject

[near ocean]

Lol? How are you supposed to pick if they dont tell you what goes on in them

[vernal ocean]

i also dont know

[glacial hinge]

Anybody in virtual reality career field and pursuing it

[vernal ocean]

i asked this question but they told me very few things and i couldn't even understand what did they say

[glacial hinge]

check the website if cbse or ncert for

[vernal ocean]

@glacial hinge what do you mean

[near ocean]

Do you know others that are a year ahead of you that took the classes already?

[vernal ocean]

yeah

[glacial hinge]

which board do u have

[vernal ocean]

meaning

[peak halo]

In order to keep messages on-screen for longer, enabling more people to give input on questions, please say everything that you'd like to say at a given time in one message. This is what the slow mode is intended to encourage. If you're having a lot of back-and-forth in order to get an answer to a question, it probably means that you're not giving as much information as you should have initially.

@glacial hinge I don't think anyone is online right now who has a career specifically in virtual reality, but as I mentioned earlier, I don't think virtual reality in itself is a career track.

[hushed panther]

lol discord mods

[glacial hinge]

Not virtual relaity exactly but it could be combined with some other career

[vernal ocean]

@glacial hinge can you tell me what do you exactly mean by board

[glacial hinge]

like in india we have CBSE, Maharashtra board and so

[vernal ocean]

CBSE

[glacial hinge]

And u must have NCERT affiliated textbooks

[vernal ocean]

yeah

[glacial hinge]

So, just check out the website of ncert for the topics included in I.T

[vernal ocean]

ok

thank you

[glacial hinge]

there u can find all the subjects

[vernal ocean]

by the way in which standard are you

[glacial hinge]

u can check at cbse also if it's unavailable on ncert

[glacial hinge]

passed 12 last year

[vernal ocean]

ok

oh so which subject did you pick I.T or A.I

[glacial hinge]

In my school I don;t had these options

[vernal ocean]

ok

[glacial hinge]

I only had IP that is information practices

[vernal ocean]

thanks for your advice

[glacial hinge]

which was okok

just choose the subject with any programming language python preferrably

[vernal ocean]

I.T has programming language like python

[wind relic]

[dense mesa]

IT is less likely to have programming, Python even less so. It's more scripting and that kinda thing

Degree apprenticeship in software would be great

[near ocean]

You learn Lua
Roblox is entirely useless

[ivory talon]

any kind of common "dream job" is usually not as nice as similar alternatives

the game development industry in particular has many, many issues.
take a look at crunch culture / work ethic for starters

[peak halo]

your question was better when it was just "is working in game development worth it".

game development and game playing are going to have a lot less to do with one another than it might seem at face value. what inspires your interest in game development as a potential career?

You're right about that. We have a #game-development channel if you want to discuss that more, but most game development in Python are 2d games. 3d games are usually made with game engines like Unity.

[brazen lagoon]

if you are interested in it and u're good at it then yes

same with every other field

[peak halo]

cybersecurity pays well, from what I understand, but it requires knowledge in addition to what you would learn in a basic CS curriculum.

[rose solar]

does anyone know if it’s even possible to get an internship for the summer at this point?

[peak halo]

if you're a university student, the career center for your school is likely to have the best answer.

[neat creek]

Hello I decided that i want IT to be my career but tbh idk where to go and where to start. I was told to get a job at a help desk center and work my way from there (also study along the way) but there lots of ceritfications and shit i dont really know where to start

[vital skiff]

I would suggest browsing jobs relative to your experience level i.e. junior, manager, senior and identify what core skills are constants i..e azure, aws, sql etc Then research/explore/train on these subjects and apply for jobs/discuss these skills with others and find out more about what is involved. (TLDR: find out common subjects, upskill/learn, apply/explore)

[brazen lagoon]

IT is a broad term, find out what fields are there and decide what you want to do

[spark zinc]

kind of unrealted career question but would it be unprofessional in the canadian software industry if i got an arm tattoo, collarbone tattoo, painted nails, and earrings?

kind of want to try out a different look for a while but i have to start applying for coop jobs in the fall so yea

[delicate bane]

for the states, yes. the good ones may have all their slots filled tho

[brave silo]

How long should my cv be for a summer internshi[

[delicate bane]

is this the states? i can only speak about that experience

[smoky quest]

Old farts may care.
Most companies and people won't care, especially if you are remote.

If you have to interact with customers, folks would start caring a lot more

[smoky quest]

1 page at most

[summer roost]

Would you want to work for a company that cares?

[peak halo]

@spark zinc my guess is that they're going to care more about your demeanor. it might also depend on whether or not the job has any client/customer-facing component.

[summer roost]

I wasn't just being glib, I meant that as a genuine question. The technically correct answer here is that there will be some people who won't hire someone because they don't look businesslike enough. But, if you wouldn't like working at such a place, or for such a person, then that wouldn't impact your job prospects at all.

[smoky quest]

It would though if most of the available jobs for your skills and market would end up caring about it.
The nature and location of the tatoo would have an impact as well. And while I can't speak of Canada proper, I would expect different reactions depending someone being in the deep end of Texas VS a more cosmopolitan area like SF/NY

[pulsar bluff]

im not in a university CS program. i learned to code some languages as a hobby and now im learning python. does anyone know a good certification test or other such way to proove my knowledge, or do projects tend to be enough?

[smoky quest]

College/University are the main route.
Outside of that, there aren't universal certificates and self-learners will tend to use projects.

Thus, if you have the opportunity, college/university makes it a lot easier

[pulsar bluff]

i already have a degree (bs) in chemistry, are you saying i need a degree in CS to be even viable at an interview? I am 30 and do not have it in me to go back for 4 more years.

If projects are the main resume showcase for self-learners, I'll focus on them.

[peak halo]

@pulsar bluff what job(s) have you had since getting that degree?

[worldly linden]

hi everyone, i came from java background, recently work on big data and have been coding scala for more than half year. i start to like scala but it still confuse me sometimes. so, i would like to learn scala from ground up to build a solid foundation. which book is the best in your opinion?

[brittle thorn]

Network and attend meetups related to Python and Data Science perhaps

[inner wren]

@chrome hamlet Per Rule 6, your invite link has been removed. If you believe this was a mistake, please let staff know!

Our server rules can be found here: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/rules

[ivory sluice]

discord.gg/scala

@chrome hamlet ^ whitelisted

[delicate bane]

i think thats a good plan. the better projects you have on your portfolio, the more likely you have a chance. networking and meetups can also help a lot like tanuki said.

[summer roost]

most people who we see ask the question that you asked are 16 or 17 year olds. For someone who's 30, the advice is a bit different: I'd suggest trying to pivot into a position that leverages your existing expertise, rather than go back to school. Projects will be helpful. Certs couldn't hurt, but companies don't tend to care much about certs. Does your current company/lab have any computational chemistry positions you might be able to segue into?

[brave silo]

for my resume, if i have no work experience related to the field should i only put my personal projects, education, skills and achievements in that respective order and completely skip my "irrelevant work experience" such as working as a sales associate

[summer roost]

no - any work experience is better than no work experience.

and for junior roles, it's common for every applicant to have only irrelevant experience.

[brave silo]

thanks, Got it! another question, how many projects do you suggest i put onto my resume in general?

[summer roost]

people usually do around 3, plus or minus 1

[smoky quest]

I am saying the situation is no different than if your situation was reversed: How to find a job in chemistry with no knowledge of chemistry and only a cs degree?

Not knowing your specific situation, my advice was meant to be generic. And as in any field, the main route is the appropriate degree.
Since you are older, that may indeed be more difficult as pointed out by goldygeek.
That leaves bootcamps and self learning paths or anything close enough to your current skillset

[zenith geyser]

are there any algorithmic or quant traders?

[vapid jay]

can someone interview you or help me get a Python dev/data science/engineer job? 🙂 (US citizen)
I have 4 years of grad school but I would like to earn money, so I want to become a Python dev or do something with data

[smoky quest]

Can you clarify the question?

[vapid jay]

I would like a referral for a job or for someone to interview me for their company

Having a hard time getting replies from companies

[buoyant seal]

How many times did you apply and waited

[smoky quest]

People won't hand you out a job like that. They may also not want to doxx themselves.

The typical help you would get from here would be more about helping you out troubleshooting your resume and approach to job hunting to make you more successful (hopefully)

[vapid jay]

idk, 500 times

[vapid jay]

I got some job interview offers from Discord before but I didn't like their location at the time. But now I don't mind any location

[smoky quest]

• How does your resume look like? Feel free to post an anonymized version
• Are you applying to jobs which match well your skillset and experience?

[smoky quest]

Sounds great! What I saw over discord wasn't so legit in general. So I have been quite suspicious about it

[vapid jay]

yea I'd prefer to add people through LinkedIn first, or people just link me to the job post at their company

[smoky quest]

tbh, looks fine. No different than other new grads I see.
What type of jobs are you applying to?

[woeful coyote]

in which all companies u can get job by learnign python

[smoky quest]

If I was to nitpick, I would say your experience seems more geared towards DS/ML, but at the same time your MS is on pause. That could be an issue for some, but not for 500 applications.

[vapid jay]

Currently I'm mostly applying to software engineering jobs, and some data science&engineer jobs. In the past I was also applying for machine learning scientist & engineer.

[vapid jay]

yea when I was still planning on finishing it, I still didn't get any replies for ML jobs, including ML new grad. So that's another reason why I feel no reason to complete it now

I guess maybe because it's a foreign school, but still, it has a 5% acceptance rate. guess they dont know that 😅

[vapid jay]

so u recommend I do a home project for a web and/or app development to put on my resume?

[smoky quest]

That could help by providing a bit of a diversity and matching closer to the non-ml jobs

also on a nitpick level, most of your descriptions are pretty generic and could benefit from a bit more details with regards to how you did and the outcome

[vapid jay]

not sure how I could fit more onto that 1 page

[pulsar bluff]

lab tecnician jobs which i havent enjoyed and which they threaten to replace all of us with automation

i dont do computer work with my degree at all amd havent worked in a lab in some years due to how little i've enjoyed it. so the past six years im actually in customer service orientated jobs (preschool teacher, school bus driver) and i need to switch now because health insurence went up to 360 a month which means im going to start spending more than i earn beginning this year. one perk of my current job is free time though, and Im smart and already know css and html and basic javascript from hobby in college (designing web forums). so id be interested in web dev or software interface.

you actually cant get jobs in chem without a degree. but tons of people say you can get jobs in CS without a degree if you have a project portfolio, and going to a formal school matters less if you can just prove you know the language.

[pulsar bluff]

i dont work in a lab. ive avoided working a lab for about 6 years now as i was miserable working for one. i regret ever getting my degree in this field.

i tried to expand out to web dev of the company i was a lab tech at when they were small, but they were completely uninterested even when my portfolio had designs that weere way more aesthetic than their current website.

they pidgeonhole people and dont recognize versatility

[near ocean]

that could be up to many things, like budget issues
would you really stay in that company if you had to do your regular responsibilities and also do webdev work? would you not ask for a pay raise? maybe they just couldnt justify it

[pulsar bluff]

i havent worked their in 6 years, and I had asked my boss if I could do web dev work for the company because the wet lab wasn't getting enough samples to do full 8 hours

But the branding department just wanted me to buzz off

my boss helped me reach out across departments because he liked the idea, and I wanted the work experience to make a career switch. but even though their website looked like it was straight out of the 90s, they wouldnt let me in that door.

[ashen smelt]

Maybe they wanted you in the lab and that's they didn't let you go for web dev

[pulsar bluff]

they pay chem techs peanuts too. teachers make more

[pulsar bluff]

Like I said, there was nothing to do in the lab because it was an off-season.

Theres no work for you if you can code, as a lab tech. those companies "buy their code" from third parties when theyre small, or they have their own it department when they are large

[storm raft]

please take this with a huge pinch of salt - since you are interested in webdev and have done this before, how about getting a portfolio ready and then directly apply to jobs as usual but also...

try and reach out through your network at the school/community you are at and see if you could do some freelancing with them

since you have a chemistry/science background - maybe try combining that with webdev and/or tech support - a school might have opportunities like that

since you have free time right now (like you mentioned), maybe these opportunities don't have to be paid directly, but lead you to building your portfolio and/or network

[pulsar bluff]

im 30 and not in school

[storm raft]

by school - you mentioned being a pre-school teacher /school bus driver - i meant that school, not university

[pulsar bluff]

it doesnt work like that

i've learned big places don't just let "strangers" into their online structures and by strangers i mean anyone not explicitly hired for the task

public school system, its a 10 ft wall of red tape

[storm raft]

fair point! i also mentioned the entire network that you might have access to, not just school itself, there are teachers and parents, the community you are living in...etc

[pulsar bluff]

most places like their 90s websites too and dont want change :( even when its offered just for getting work experience.

they're too scared you'll break something

[tiny temple]

need to update resume with above average project for summer internship, anyone interested to collaborate with me, i'd love to to hear from u

GitHub: github.com/yusufadell

[brittle thorn]

This is true and I tried both positions in the past

[brittle thorn]

I suggest getting enrolled in a uni to make new contacts even if you dont finish the degree or try working in the uni you graduated from

[brittle thorn]

Yes i have seen this too.. career transitions are hard but possible

[brittle thorn]

Attend meetups where you can meet small startups where you can pitch your web site design service...consider being an entrepreneur

[brittle thorn]

It has to be a compelling pitch ...if it is marginally better they will not bite. I have encountered similar sentiments ... Learn some sales skills

[brittle thorn]

Yeah Lab can be fun and boring (Im a Chem major that transitioned to IT in much earlier than you age wise successfully)

[woeful coyote]

We are no stranger of love
never gonna give u up

[brittle thorn]

I think the branding dept feels they are being bypassed or worse their toes are being stepped on... try to be diplomatic about the old website .... work with them and make them see that you can help them do a better job with them and not possibly displace them...

[brittle thorn]

Do what you enjoy and I think you will find eventual success... It may take time but I think you can do it ....I got started in IT as a hobby.

[summer roost]

It's not impossible to get a job as a developer without a degree, but it's not easy, either. If getting a degree isn't an option, a web development boot camp would be your next best option. Good boot camps have relationships with local businesses and can help you get into companies' hiring pipelines

[pulsar bluff]

that was a story from 7 years ago. i no longer even work there 😛 just my experience with trying to get more coding tasks at a company, and the amount of pushback there was.

there was no negotiation. i was just shut down no ifs, ands, or buts, and it wasn't my place to push the issue.

[ivory talon]

this is not a job board / resume dump

[brittle thorn]

I have seen IT departments push back on well meaning interlopers .. it is best to network first and try to feel it out before pushing it or they may feel you are stepping on their toes...well it is in the past but we learn from experiences.

[pulsar bluff]

it's kinda sad that's how it gets taken

you'd think people in the business would see the usefulness of someone instead and try to capitalize on it, but instead, people just get threatened? i hate workplace politics

[outer solstice]

Hi

Can anyone tells about bca

[brittle thorn]

It is the way it is

Smaller firms will have less politics

Go for startups or make one yourself

[honest pivot]

eh, there can be a decent amount of politics at startups. But definitely less likely someone will tell you no to applying a skill you have for the benefit of the company.

[brittle thorn]

True lol but more people more politics

(Introvert here lol)

[honest pivot]

I mean, "politics" is just dealing with people and their personalities. You can't really avoid that unless you're independently wealthy.

[brittle thorn]

I am somewhat lol

[honest pivot]

We live in a society, something something

[pulsar bluff]

politics is usually more than this... it kinda of implies some form of corruption where people take into account their own individual interests as a bias in their decision-making that is meant to be best interests of the business

[brittle thorn]

Yep

[pulsar bluff]

hence, nepotism is a thing

[brittle thorn]

Or marking territory or mini fiefdoms within a corporation

And inter departmental struggles

Seen it lol

[honest pivot]

I have no idea how you can practically avoid the fiefdom effect, even in a small organization

[brittle thorn]

Keep it really small 5 person startup perhaps

[pulsar bluff]

There's hardly any politics in my current job: school bus driving. Im pretty sure the whole transportation industry, with everyone so spread out, it feels more minimal

[honest pivot]

If people feel that they are competing for limited resources (be that raises, recognition, employees to work on their projects), then they are probably going to act at least partially out of self-interest

[brittle thorn]

Fun lol

[pulsar bluff]

even in this case tho. like if dave and pete became besties working so close together all the time and starting to play golf together, then cheryll gets hired and they team up against her.

it's The Old Dog mentality

[honest pivot]

Or it's more like Cheryl starts missing out on opportunities. They don't have to team up on her deliberately.

[brittle thorn]

True

[pulsar bluff]

I had some really wild sexual harrassment stories i never reported just to not seem like a whistle blower. then there was the time my old boss made stabbing jokes to me after i told him i got mugged over xmas. navigating the workplace is so hard in these cases.

[brittle thorn]

I will make team based incentives

[honest pivot]

Like the mere fact that our CEO doesn't want to officially create any leadership roles is kinda poisoning the environment here.

[vapid jay]

Hello,i downloaded Linkchecker and i keep getting 'linkchecker' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file. any fix??

[brittle thorn]

If the incentives are on the individual level there can be conflicts

[brittle thorn]

Yeah i heard of your startup woes lol

[honest pivot]

The situation is slightly better than when I was complaining about it. I'm not fully convinced I should leave, kinda makes it difficult.

[pulsar bluff]

if you're gonna leave now's the time. huge worker shortage in general.

[honest pivot]

Yeah, that fad hasn't quite caught on in EU yet

[pulsar bluff]

aww i see yeah

[honest pivot]

It's kinda hard to be "looking", too. Like I don't have recruiters contacting me like I keep hearing about. So it's looking for things to apply to, and then having to think about how serious I actually am about the application when I actually talk to them.

[pulsar bluff]

It's def a lot of work. As for getting recruiters to contact you, they start doing that when you post your resume on a job board

[brittle thorn]

I have a few recruiters contact me now and then and mostly ignore

[brittle thorn]

EU is taking in refugees ...is that affecting the job market there

[livid moat]

question - if i wanted to take programming as my main job after hs what languages should i know?

and what dev should i aim to be?

[pulsar bluff]

Yeah i try to avoid taking the opportunities recruiters push on me. They usually are just hired by employers to fill an interview quota

[honest pivot]

No idea. I know it's had a significant affect on housing in Poland, like the major cities are basically full. And its causing a housing crunch in Berlin. But beyond that I'm not sure.

[brittle thorn]

Mostly a waste of time unless you find the job interesting

[delicate bane]

so...just a flat structure? that only works if its a small team + not a lot of politics, no?

[delicate bane]

your 2nd question can help you answer your 1st question. i recommend taking a look at the different types of opportunities out there and maybe trying some things to see if you like it

[marsh wind]

ugh, still no success there? 😦

[smoky quest]

If I remember correctly the last time they complained, the problem is the CEO wants a flat structure but also doesn't lead

[delicate bane]

bruh. thats a real...something

for me, i wouldnt be able to handle that. but thats my personality.

[dense mesa]

Obviously I don't work at Valve, but I'm surprised at how long they've lasted with a flat structure

Like it seems good in many ways, but then some projects/boring work gets left untouched for years

[smoky quest]

yeah. I think the fact it's about gamedev probably has a lot to do with it too. I wouldn't see it working as well for an accounting software company

[dense mesa]

@smoky quest have you seen any management techniques that were good during your career?

[smoky quest]

That's a big question and depends also on what you are managing.
Managing a blue collar union type would be quite different from the tech folks. And even tech folks would vary quite a bit between a startup and a larger company.
But overall, and it should not come as a surprise:

• Don't be a dick. Have tons of empathy and don't assume the worst. Yes, sometimes it may feel like you are a punching bag, but more often than not, it's worth it
• Be genuine
• Don't hold back information. The more context people have, the more they understand why we do what we do (as a team) and why we don't do what we don't do. The trick is making sure the right information is there and people aren't necessarily overloaded or stressed by it
• Don't work for assholes. Shit rolls downhill and there are way too many great places to put up with bad management
• Give people problems, not solutions. Furthermore you don't scale by being the central point. Being a leader is being able to effectively delegate and having people understand the expectations and parameters of the problem/task
• Failure is not the problem. What matters is how you (or the engineer) deal with it