career-advice

[frosty sail]

It is pretty straightforward to transition into jobs writing software from any STEM field, but CS is the most applicable of course.

They all have basically the same math requirements, and all STEM degrees these days require some coding.

[brittle thorn]

Yeah I transitioned from Chemistry to IT without much difficulty

[frosty sail]

But I wouldn’t worry much about what you’re gonna do after college if you’re not even in college yet. You’ll be a completely different person by then with different goals. Just do stuff that you like and hopefully you’re good at

[brittle thorn]

Lol this was true for me

[olive charm]

I mean right now, and for the foreseeable future due to my mental health idk how feasible working in general is going to be, honestly even going to school atm is far out of my reach but part of my recovery is planning for the future and taking steps towards it so that's why I'm trying to figure out what direction I should be stepping in. There is a real chance that I won't ever be able to work normally so I do tend to lean towards more of a "how interested in this am I?" rather than post-secondary application, but that being said I also don't want to go pay for schooling that afterwards would be completely useless as far as potential work.

[summer roost]

I think it's true for pretty much everyone. The field I wound up in is one that I knew next to nothing about before college.

[olive charm]

from the sounds of it through it seems like what I had planned would leave me over-educated for what I want to do since the plan was to go through Computer Science and then Computer Systems Engineering and what I'm being told is that I just need Computer Science

[frosty sail]

Yep. It’s not like the learning stops when you’re done with school, anyway. One of the core skills of being in software a long time is figuring out how to self-educate for the long haul

So One degree is plenty! Best of luck @olive charm sounds like you’ve got your head in the right place

[olive charm]

Lol if my head was in the right place I'd already have had a degree by my age 😛

Stupid mental health issues xD

[mild heath]

what is python?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

[vapid jay]

Its a programming language

Why

[mild heath]

im kinda dumb

[vapid jay]

Writing allows us to share info. Reading allows us to extract into. Programming allows us to process info.

[mild heath]

is it hard to learn for a 9th grader?

[vapid jay]

The 3 literacies: PWR

[vapid jay]

Technically no, the hard part is the motivation, they need to study it really indepth and slowly

Programming tales 1 year to learn, 1 chapter per month

[mild heath]

oh ok

[vapid jay]

One shouldn't move on to later chapter without mastering the earlier ones, otherwise they WILL FAIL

[mild heath]

ok

[vapid jay]

All the later chapters depend on the earlier stuff

[mild heath]

my brother learned it but then he went to college

[vapid jay]

I learned it in sophomore year college, I spent 3 months over the summer, from 9am to 5am the next day. I was programming Java. I got 3 chapters done, but it was good enough for me to understand programming and get an A

[mild heath]

how do i find the 3 literacies?

[vapid jay]

I studied before I took the class, don't take the class, study it first then take it

[mild heath]

ok

[vapid jay]

What adults don't tell you is life is really really hard. Pretend life as an adult is hell, that's how it's like.

All jobs suck, so pick the smartest one, so I recommend Comp sci

Also start working out, people are superficial, physical health plays a BIG impact

If you don't follow my advice your future self will regret it trust me

When taking notes when learning stuff, don't just copy every 1 to 1, make new ideas from the things you learn

[pastel thunder]

i am the main author

yes

[native narwhal]

bruh is anyone in canada

[dense mesa]

This is solid advice and I wish I knew it earlier

[dense mesa]

In particular as well

[frosty sail]

Then call it Undergraduate Research Experience. Anyone who has worked in a research lab knows exactly what you mean by that

[pastel thunder]

sounds perfect

[quick igloo]

hello gentle people, how's your day going

[vapid jay]

Not at all lol. I learned Python in 4th grade. The hardest part would be motivation as someone else said already

[quick igloo]

I'm a recent graduate here in Barcelona. I studied Applied Languages at Pompeu Fabra University and graduated on july 2020

in the last year of my bachelor's I learned python and NLTK and I loved it, and then proceeded to do a prototype of a plagiarism detection system which was very simple yet working

[fathom magnet]

Hi

[fathom magnet]

I am new in programming world

[quick igloo]

A couple of years ahead without further direction, now I want to specialize in computational linguistics, machine learning and deep learning, but I see all the job offers are for computer scientists, not for linguists, and I'm going a bit crazy

So which would be the best career path for me in order to be competent in computational linguistics with Python, etc., without having to do a bachelor of science on computer science?

Thanks in advance and I hope you have a great day 🙂

[quick igloo]

Hi Muddy 😄 i like your nickname

[fathom magnet]

thanks 🙂

[frosty sail]

What do you mean by computational linguistics? What kind of problems do you envision solving

[quick igloo]

Computational linguistics is the art of applying computer science to natural language, both oral and written, in order for machines to understand it, compare it, produce it, in order for us to talk with machines, or for machines to talk with us. It involves a series of techniques and domains, such as Text to Speech, Speech to Text, automatic corpora tagging, automatic summarizing, plagiarism detection, dialog, voice assistants, etc.

My vision is to create a text analyser that can give lingistic feedback about the comparison of two texts: semantic, sintactic, and lexic information about its similarity or difference

linguistic*

[frosty sail]

Okay, that’s helpful. So you want to work in researching and designing better deep learning or other algorithms for solving linguistic problems

[quick igloo]

I see myself more in an enterprise environment, managing the design, creation and testing of software solutions for business and users, maybe in a multidisciplinar team with other people who know more of computer science than me

[frosty sail]

I… see. So you are interested in project management in the data science space, particularly around linguistic problems. That’s a… very specific vision

[quick igloo]

yep thats it 😄

i would be glad of being in a technician job also, project management would be the ideal but I would be happy of being a code-worker

[frosty sail]

Project managers often do not have the same level of technical skill as the programmers they are working with, which is just fine.

[quick igloo]

ah, i see. then maybe it would be better for me, since i don't have a computer science degree. I have a lot of computer science knowledge, though, but maybe not enough for the needs of the domain

[frosty sail]

I guess I can’t really offer any advice. I’m not interested in being a project manager myself so I don’t know much about how one gets into that career path. But yeah actually every project manager I’ve had (and I’m solidly in the code-writers camp) was a domain expert, with a degree somewhat related to the problems the business was trying to solve, not a CS degree

[quick igloo]

well raymond, in any case thanks for your attention, i truly appreciate it 🙂 You have helped me in making me aware that I see myself more in PM than in an actual technical, computer science job, and more than I expected^^

and that's more than I expected*

[lone prism]

Hi ,I know the basics of python and created a few mini projects ,what should I do next

[peak halo]

do you have an end goal in mind? and, to the topic of the channel, does it involve a certain career type?

[raw plank]

I'll debate that a bit. Life doesn't have to be hard, if you work hard at life. If you don't work hard at life, then yes, it's really really hard. Most of my jobs have been enjoyable because I enjoy what I do. However, if all one enjoys is not working hard, then all jobs will probably suck for you. Part of working hard is working on one's self, to include knowing and understanding people. As you evolve in that, people aren't necessarily superficial, but they seem that way because you don't take the time to dive into them. YOU (me, etc) probably seem superficial to them also. And yes, if you ignore your physical self and just sit in a chair all day, your body will degrade over time to the point that your elderly self will be severely impacted.

Debate is over. Well not a debate, just my point of view.

[frosty sail]

Oof ya that's quite the pessimistic attitude. We don't all think that life as an adult is Hell

@mild heath ^^

[stray gust]

I mean nobody is forcing you to do something you hate.

I do network engineering because I find it fun. I plan to save up for a few years when I graduate soon and work remotely while traveling the U.S. Or save for a tiny home and do something unique.

I notice most people who have this "life is hell" mentality oftentimes never reach their full potential and life satisfaction because they are stuck in a rotunda of excuses.

Yes you work. Yes it can suck sometimes. Work hard now so you don't have to work hard later.

My only proposition is that I think the 40 hour workweek is antiquated and working hours should be based on results rather than clocking in hours but that is just me.

Something I learned personally is that patience is a virtue and the goals I want to achieve will be achieved in due time.,

[wet plaza]

Hello all. I just am unsure who to talk to. I have been debating on going to a coding bootcamp and was wondering if anyone may have any knowledge on it. I feel like I have made a poor career choice with my college degree especially seeing my friend make very good money as a software engineer. I just don’t know which way to go.

[peak halo]

I don't think very many employers will recognize a certificate from a coding bootcamp. You might look into post baccalaureate programs, which is basically a second bachelors degree but with a smaller set of requirements (and no general education requirements).

Also, what kind of software engineer do you want to be?

[wet plaza]

Thanks for the tip. Im not sure if I want to become a software engineer or look to do something with data science. Most of these bootcamps have 3 branches software engineering/data science/ cybersecurity

[peak halo]

I work as a data scientist in the US. My company would not hire you for a data science or cybersec position without a relevant bachelors degree.

If you go the bootcamp route, I think data science or cybersec would be out of reach.

what is your bachelors degree in?

[wet plaza]

Public policy and management

What would be considered a relevant degree?

[peak halo]

something in STEM, basically

if you had a degree in a STEM field, I think employers would be more likely to recognize a coding bootcamp as building on potentially relevant knowledge.

My take is that even if boot camps are transparent about what the service is (you take classes in this amount of time that covers these subjects), I think there's probably a predatory element. Are there boot camps for non-software domains, or are they just trying to cash in on the hype?

[frosty sail]

honestly, a lot of companies won't even look at data science applicants who don't have a PhD. Or a very productive research-based masters with multiple published papers.

IT/software route is much more amenable to career switching

Not saying getting into data science w/o the credentials is impossible, but it's a lot harder than getting into software in general w/o the credentials

[peak halo]

I got a data science position with only a BSc, but it took many months and I had to apply to probably around 200 positions. I ended up finding one that related closely to very niche experience that I had as part of the BSc.

[frosty sail]

this would be highly relevant if you consider management career tracks in tech. Maybe not so much for being a software engineer

[wet plaza]

Thats pretty great info. I just dont really know which way to turn. Would it matter if I have a homeland security/cybersecurity minor if I wanted a cybersecurity approach?

[frosty sail]

sounds like it would

[peak halo]

That is, your degree major was public policy and management, and your minor was about public policy as it pertains to homeland and cyber security?

[wet plaza]

No it has no relation

[peak halo]

what did this minor involve?

[wet plaza]

The minor involves basic risk management/identifying risk/risk threats etc.

[peak halo]

I don't know that I understand all of that. It might be that it would make you a stronger candidate with defense contractors, if you're in the US.

[wet plaza]

Got it

[hushed kestrel]

A few ways of becoming a data scientist.

1. Have a PHD.
2. Get lucky
3. work hard
4. spend a lot of time as a data engineer and work your way up.

Only government contracts will preclude you to not have a degree. There are many startups that hire data engineers who will work under data scientists and you can learn on the job experience which after 2-4 years is in some situations seen as more attractive than having a PHD.

[gritty rivet]

I did a part-time bootcamp (Nucamp) and was able to transition into software engineering a couple months after graduating. I know many people who did the same. Most, like me, have irrelevant degrees. Some don't even have degrees at all but that's less common

There is another discord server called Bootcamp Support Network you might want to check out. There are current students and recent graduates from a range of bootcamps on there.

I agree that there is a predatory element to bootcamps in general. They make you think you can pay them a bunch of money and magically become employable and it doesn't work that way. Self-learn as much as you can, only pay for a bootcamp if and when you understand what you are getting into and are sure you are ready and have done your research

[wet plaza]

I appreciate it all. It definitely seems like software engineering may be the route i would like to go

[wet plaza]

Also. What year did you do this in? I have a concern about over saturation of applicants in the job market. Im not sure if this is something I should even worry about but saw this mentioned a few times on forums.

[gritty rivet]

I graduated this past November. Your concern is something to be aware of, but I think if you commit and follow through you'll get there sooner or later

[summer roost]

Can you afford the time and money to go back to school for a CS or Software Engineering degree?

I haven't heard of anyone with a CS degree having trouble getting entry level jobs. People without a degree have significantly more trouble.

[wet plaza]

The reason I was really looking for a bootcamp was to cut down on the time. I feel as if I am more dedicated now than ever. My friend who is a software engineer suggested i attend a bootcamp as some of his colleagues have gotten a job at his company with just that.

[vapid jay]

Getting on to upper management later in life will be easier with a degree for sure. I have seen some struggle from people in the field recently when changing jobs as they are more limited in their choices due to not having a degree. While it's not essential, in some cases, it can matter

[vapid jay]

Sacrificing time is a necessary thing. You won't truly learn the fundamentals in a "8 WeEks SuPeR frONtenD DeV" course

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, there are no shortcuts without cost. If you have no degree and getting one is at all possible, it's a worthwhile investment for sure and no bootcamp can compete with a degree

[summer roost]

it's possible to get a job with just a bootcamp if you're sufficiently motivated and a quick learner, but it's much easier to get a job with a degree. If you can afford to go back to college - even a community college, even for an associates degree - it would probably benefit you more than a bootcamp would. If you can't, a bootcamp is your next best option - but expect to apply to, and be shot down by, a lot of places before you land on one that's willing to take a risk on you.

some bootcamps have relationships with local businesses, and help to place their graduates at jobs. That might be able to help you break into the industry, too.

[wet plaza]

I think I would totally do it if it were a 2 year program. But the 4 years is what concerns me. I thought a computer science degree taught more of the basics and fundamentals rather than specific languages

[summer roost]

it does, yes - CS degrees focus more on theory and less on practice. There's another, rarer, type of degree called Software Engineering that focuses a bit more on practice and less on theory.

but, that theoretical grounding that you get from a CS degree positions you very well to learn more topics in the future, and to be able to reason about the design of systems in a holistic way. Bootcamp grads, from what I've heard, tend to graduate with reasonably strong practical skills, but weaker background knowledge, which makes them less adaptable to more complex roles as their careers progress.

Moreover, companies know what people with a CS degree have learned, and they're used to hiring people with CS degrees and training them on any practical knowledge necessary. Companies are less equipped to train people on that theoretical background knowledge that CS grads would have but bootcamp grads wouldn't.

[gritty rivet]

Having a degree is unfortunately not primarily about what you learn, at least when it comes to employment. It's more about having a line on your resume that gets your resume closer to the top of the pile

A two-year degree is better than none, and you can save a lot of money by starting at a two year school and then transferring to a four year later

[summer roost]

It's more about having a line on your resume that gets your resume closer to the top of the pile
Well, partially - but also, it's about having some independent authority certify that you learned some material up to a common standard.

[vapid jay]

My course i'm doing currently taught me fundamentals before moving onto more practical things. We learnt about how things work in terms of networking up to configuring routing protocols and configuring networks. With that, we learned web dev, micro controller programming, cloud networking, security and more coding. A good course will teach everything and get more specific in the latter years

[summer roost]

Degrees are more respected than bootcamps because the accreditation process for universities ensures that the CS degree from that institution means approximately the same thing as a CS degree from any other institution. The same isn't true of bootcamps.

[wet plaza]

Can the same be said for a 2 year degree over a bootcamp?

[gritty rivet]

Sure, it wouldn't mean anything to employers otherwise. It's also valuable for networking and other reasons...

I guess the point I was making is that a person with a BA in Basket Weaving is better off then a person with no degree (but obviously not better off then a BS in CS)

[gritty rivet]

Yes, although the combination of both would be better than one or the other probably

[wet plaza]

Got it

[summer roost]

employers would value a 2 year degree less than a 4 year degree, but more than a 4 or 6 month bootcamp, generally speaking.

[gritty rivet]

And while a degree inherently counts for something, a bootcamp generally doesn't... The value of a bootcamp is the portfolio you build and the connections you make. The certificate itself is almost meaningless

If you are disciplined enough to do that on your own, a bootcamp is kind of a waste of money. I wouldn't say the same about a degree

[ancient star]

_>; And here I was thinking I'd land a software engineering job with an AS in comp sci.

[gritty rivet]

You may... But it may be more difficult and you may not earn as much. If you've already started but can transfer to a 4 year school, it's probably worth it

[pale plover]

Hi everyone

First time here. An awesome friend referred me to this space in hopes of helping me get more focused in my career. I currently have a background in both software engineering and data science, and would like to zone in to become a Python expert since it is the common denominator amongst the two fields.

I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to a Python open source project in need of contributors? I'm looking to dive into the community and start pushing commits , make friends, etc.

[wet plaza]

Did you complete your AS?

[peak halo]

Hello! We don't really have a system for helping people find projects that might interest them (and decided some time ago that we wouldn't pursue one), though I think github has that functionality: https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/exploring-projects-on-github/finding-ways-to-contribute-to-open-source-on-github

[pale plover]

Thank you!

[hearty kindle]

Does anyone have advice for finding an internship or something like that in software development field? I'm heading into college soon and would really like to get some experience

[peak halo]

have you already been accepted into a university? you might see if that university has a career services center, and if they'd be willing to help you before you formally begin as a student there.

The career services center at my university encouraged us to seek out internships as freshmen for the experience, but not to anticipate actually getting one after our first school year.

[hearty kindle]

interesting, yes I have

I believe my school does have a career services center too

[summer roost]

You'll be in a better position than someone with no degree, but a worse position than someone with a BA or BS

[summer roost]

Pick a project you use. Nearly every major tool and library would love any consistent help they can get

[ancient star]

No, I've just started, haha. My /plan/ is to complete my AS while building a portfolio of projects and such.

[summer roost]

Any degree is much better than no degree.

[grizzled sail]

anyone here did a bootcamp and what's your review?

needed, not needed, recommended, not recommended?

[barren jetty]

If I’m starting out in python, how much learning what I need to do or how much learning of coding in general would I need to be able to look for the most basic of development jobs?

Or internship

[gritty rivet]

Worked out great for me. I graduated in November, had a job offer in hand two months later. I did the Nucamp Backend program

Take self learning as far as you can take it, then you can decide what you need. Don't join a specific bootcamp without talking to successful graduates with backgrounds similar to yours... We're easy to find on LinkedIn

Also, join the Bootcamp Support Network discord server

[smoky quest]

Are degrees not an option?

[barren jetty]

I’m working on my 4 year degree, I’m a first year though starting a programming concepts class in python over the summer

[smoky quest]

Then I would focus on side projects and digging deeper in the topics you are seeing at school. They will have a great ROI

[barren jetty]

So stick to whatever beginner hustle with regular civilian jobs until I’ve got a deep rooted knowledge?

[smoky quest]

Depends on your context. But if you are working on a 4 year degree, why worry about jobs now? What are you trying to optimize here?

[gritty rivet]

Nobody can really answer this for you, could be months or years depending on many variables. You set goals, you work for them, meet them or fail, and reevaluate.

[barren jetty]

What’s a general idea of good knowledge on a language is what my question is and recursive, my optimization is making better income than $13 an hour doing something not related to my career

[gritty rivet]

Not too early to look for internships, but I wouldn't be looking for a permanent job yet

[grizzled sail]

thanks alot!

[snow escarp]

for the love of god someone help me exit vim i'm stuck in purgatory

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/
So you are saying you are trying to find a side gig while you study that is a better income than basic students jobs?

[gritty rivet]

If you're a student, you have access to some kind of career development resources... Take advantage of them

[barren jetty]

How much knowledge would a internship prefer at minimum? I’m very new to trying to figure out a bare minimum at least

[smoky quest]

Internships will basically assume the regular knowledge of a student at your level. There aren't prerequisites

[gritty rivet]

It generally works the other way around... Find an internship that matches your skills and goals

[gritty rivet]

You're in the wrong channel, try #editors-ides

[snow escarp]

Sorry, thank you

[barren jetty]

Wow this is incredible information thank you guys

[hushed ruin]

hello guys, i taught myself python and some other languages. how do i get a job. i really love programming.

[smoky quest]

What's your situation and options?

In general:

• Look for jobs in your desired role, location and see how a good fit you are
• Prepare a resume
• Prepare some projects to demonstrate your skills
• Apply to jobs and go for interviews

See also https://roadmap.sh/ for ideas of skills

[hushed ruin]

are there any kind of projects you'd recommend?

[smoky quest]

It depends on the skills you want to showcase and where your interests lie

[hushed ruin]

are desktop applications any good?

[smoky quest]

What skills are you trying to demonstrate with them and how do they fit with your target role?

[hushed ruin]

aye!

[gusty dust]

Out of curiosity and not using google going straight here for the professionals and more advanced software developers. To shorten this up, I should’ve done college right after high school but didn’t, cut to a decade later (I’m 28) and now wanting to become a software developer. However my question is, without going for a degree, would a certification through LinkedIns Learning course get me anywhere? Just gotta ask. Just asking because at this point I don’t mind doing schooling… as long as no stupid gen ed isn’t involved. Rather cut to the chase and learn the actual career path.

[tired vale]

Your ability to have the "should've done this or should have this" mentality will only hold you back. Get on the grind and start learning anywhere. Plenty of courses out there.

[gritty rivet]

I doubt that. Building a portfolio of strong projects is the most important thing you can do. Certs in general don't count for much when it comes to software development. Start looking at job listings and LinkedIn profiles and you will see this clearly

Bootcamps can be worth it, but take self-learning as far as you can before making that step.

[north arch]

I want to go to computer field and i want to be a full stack developer

What should i take with computer

[gusty dust]

Yeah that’s what I’ve been doing is learning and teaching myself. I only made that statement of “I should’ve gone to college” just to throw that out there because I know having a bachelors degree is the more ideal route. Now it’s “well I’m 28, not getting any younger so I’m just grinding teaching myself and what not” but I came here to actually ask people who do this for either fun or more so for living and what someone think about a cert.

[gusty dust]

That’s what a buddy of mine is doing. He’s been doing different small, medium sized projects for his portfolio.

[hearty island]

should i be getting a master's degree before or after a full time role

[gritty rivet]

This really depends on your goal and situation. If you think you want to do a Master's, sooner is better than later if you don't have a good and specific reason to delay

[peak halo]

this depends on too many factors for there to be one clear answer. though something to consider is that some employers will pay for all or part of a masters degree, and might have special work arrangements available to masters students.

[hearty island]

i see

[smoky quest]

In general, it's tough to go back to school once you have been in a job.
So if you want to get a master, I would recommend to do it sooner rather than later

[hearty island]

i see

[pastel junco]

I'm a 15 year old high schooler currently learning python.
Programming demands a lot of time which I'm unable to commit, idk whatever I do it's so hard to fit it into my schedule. Any suggestions?

[smoky quest]

It depends on your schedule.
Record your activities for a week or so and try to understand how you could re-organize it a bit to make it fit your schedule

[peak halo]

do you have a long-term (career) goal from learning programming? because if your long-term plans involve getting a CS degree, your time would probably currently be best spent doing well in school and in math/science classes especially.

[pastel junco]

I'm learning to support my family financially.

[brittle thorn]

Focus on getting good grades first ....and with whatever spare time do programming.... see if there are high school computer clubs and join. If they arent in your school form one. Learning can be better if you have like minded companions in your quest.

[peak halo]

While that's nice, I don't think it's likely that you'll be able to make money from it until you have a degree. Which brings me back to my original point.

[brittle thorn]

You can help your family by getting good grades, getting a scholarship and then going to a university to get a degree to be able to obtain a decent job. Think long term if you can. If there are immediate concerns I think your parents would still want you to focus on your future.

[pastel junco]

It is immediate concern, I don't think in some time my mom will be able to even afford my schooling.

[peak halo]

I imagine this situation is very concerning for you. I don't think programming is going to be part of an immediate solution.

[pastel junco]

Then what should I do?

[peak halo]

I don't think I can advise you on that. But even though programming is something anyone can get started with, getting to a point where people are willing to pay you to do it takes quite a while.

[pastel junco]

Yeah ik, but i couldn't think of any possible other way, I'm not even sure what to do of my carreer, so i thought to first aid my education.

[smoky quest]

• Look for federal help and grants
• Look for state help and grants
• Look for side jobs (ie. starbucks type)
• If looking at CS college/university, student loans could make sense given the high salary you would get

In any case, make sure you don't sacrifice school or your future. Sacrificing school means you may have to live your adulthood on minimum/very low wages comparing to having a starting 6 figures salary with a BS. In one case you won't be able to help your mom or even yourself, while in the other, it would be easier to support your family.
While I cannot advise you on the specifics of your situation, be careful with the trade offs of short term VS long term optimizations

[peak halo]

I know Starbucks was just an example, but don't work there. I did it for five years and it's constantly getting worse. If you're already under stress from a bad situation at home, Starbucks might be enough to make you pop.

[summer roost]

Ask your professors about becoming a Teachers Assistant. Or possibly a Research Assistant, if that's an option

[peak halo]

at my university, undergraduate TAs were limited to like five hours a week.

though I don't know what this person's income requirements are.

[summer roost]

If you can afford the time and money for a CS degree, that would give you better return on investment than any other option.

if you can't, we could talk about other options - but if you can, that should be plan A.

[lament pawn]

Hey why do you think a degree in CS is better than anything out there ?

[pastel thunder]

if i can have director of company i interned at to write a LOR, is it self explanatory that i had connections with him and will it be given less weightage in MS application.

because LOR from a manager sounds more realistic

[smoky quest]

That's the standard and well established route.
There aren't much in terms of competition with it either

[lament pawn]

yeah but i tried once and did not fare well

[smoky quest]

and?

[lament pawn]

I was supposed to get those missing subjects like math done but then i started working and i dont feel like going through it

[cloud sinew]

Is it really possible to self learn python ?

[smoky quest]

Depends how it's phrased. The hiring managers will care about letters from people the closest to you and have interacted with you the most

[smoky quest]

Lots of people learn python on the go. But that also depends on the goal and the context

[pastel thunder]

i can have him phrase as i want, lol for real no kidding

[smoky quest]

You would be in competition with people who did 🙂
(not even counting the benefits of knowing more about these topics)

[hushed kestrel]

Yes. You can. It's the hard mode rout

[brittle thorn]

Yes I did...

[lament pawn]

Yeah i am in competition with people who did it.
The only thing i dont know is hard core math like fourier analysis and stuff like that.
And some companies dont hire without a degree

[smoky quest]

When receiving a letter of recommendation, the reader will try to understand your connection and what they liked about you and why they are recommending you

[cloud sinew]

I actually am an English major but I always wanted to go for a graduation degree in CS but due to some issues, it wasn’t possible in my country..
now that I’m planning to do my masters in CS, I am kinda scared cause those guys in masters are already trained enough and I am not …

[hushed kestrel]

Most comp sci people took 2 calculus courses, 1 linear algebra course and maybe 1 other course

[lament pawn]

My comp sci degree needs like 5 math courses

[smoky quest]

yeah. If your goal is a job writing some frontend and you already have a job writing some frontend and don't plan on getting into more fancy topics, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If you are only 5 classes away, I would take them though

[hushed kestrel]

If you count discrete math and maybe a stats class

[lament pawn]

I'm doing backend work in python something similar to django

[lament pawn]

No I took differential equations,series a course in signal processing and all that
I did not have a stat course though

[smoky quest]

fourrier is pretty easy.
If you are 5 classes away, I would wrap it up. It will give you more opportunities and help you go into more fancy backend topics

[smoky quest]

There may be some extra classes to catch up in some areas.
Otherwise you may have to work a bit harder to catch up.

[lament pawn]

Its been some years since i'm out of school though.
Maybe i might try something in the future if distance learning is possible

I have no idea though i'm going try and look at prospects in the cloud world sometime this year

[smoky quest]

Also I forgot to mention, but it depends at which level you would get in the masters. If you join in as a first year, it's totally different than joining right after BS level

[smoky quest]

It may also be beneficial to hit a stack that is more well known for higher loads like java/c#

[lament pawn]

I think i have some room to grow since i'm in the third world and i make less than 14k usd a year even in python

[cloud sinew]

I actually am planning to do MCA .. I don’t know that much cause education system in India is wayy different than that in Netherlands

[smoky quest]

I have no idea what is a MCA

[lament pawn]

Its a 2 year post graduate degree for people with a 3 year degree
In computer programming and stuff like that

[smoky quest]

Got it. Thanks!
So basically getting the masters, but starting from a bachelors

[cloud sinew]

Masters in computer applications

[lament pawn]

Actually MCA is much easier than a Bachelors in Computer science Engineering since you dont need to study as much electronics and math

[cloud sinew]

Okay here’s a background on my bachelors degree ..
I am an English major student with my minor subject as computer science. Almost done with my graduation degree.. even though my minor subject was CS, they just taught us basics of programming languages with a bunch of other stuff..
All I am fearing is that I’ve just basic knowledge in the languages and when I go for masters, there are guys there who are more experienced than I am and I fear the chance that I can fail.. that’s why I wanna self learn some stuff in python so I can catch up

[smoky quest]

In general, you ain't special nor unique.
While this may sound bad, this is actually good. Because if the school has accepted you, it's because you aren't the first one in a similar situation and they are confident you will succeed.

[lament pawn]

I think the first semesters might be hard but it would be smooth sailing once you fall in the groove i had friends who knew nothing about computers and majored in physics that made the transition.

[smoky quest]

So it's great to try to catch up and work harder to make it up, but I would not worry too much about it. If you had no chance, you would not have been accepted

[lament pawn]

The only thing i would ask of you is that you have the will to push yourself through and you love what you are studying

[pure raft]

I have a very bad question, so I’m looking at majors for schools etc. what is the difference in school between “computer science”, “computer engineering”, and “computer science and engineering” ? Is comp eng focusing more on hardware??

[peak halo]

computer science is the theoretical math behind what can be computed. computer engineering is about designing computer hardware.

I think a lot of computer science programs are part of the engineering division of their respective universities, and that taxonomy is a bit controversial, I suppose.

[gritty rivet]

To some extent it depends on the school. Look at their description and requirements

[near ocean]

Course titles dont mean much, you have to look at the modules and syllabus for each course and each year
My degree was named computer science but was not at all mathsy

[peak halo]

also true. computer science degrees can vary in how much attention they give to "pure computer science" vs coding in general.

[pure raft]

Thank you all so much! Will definitely continue to look into these, the program I was referring to was UCLA just if anyone was wondering, but y’all awesome thank yeee

[bronze gazelle]

Cs, like stats is usually under math I'm my experience

[peak halo]

that's where it usually is if it's not part of engineering.

[vapid jay]

Hi, I'm new to Python, I'm interested in getting a job in the future that pays-well, most of the time these jobs want intermediate knowledge on Python, based in London fyi.

Where's a good place to begin, what should I prepare myself for when applying for a job.

Thanks, feel free to @ ping me

[gritty rivet]

1. Identify the skills that are in demand and which you are lacking 2) Build projects to develop those skills 3) apply for jobs 4) repeat all these steps as many times as needed

If you don't have a degree, it's best to get one

This may also help you identify what skills to work on: roadmap.sh

[vapid jay]

thanks for the reply, I'm from the UK and we have a thing called T-Levels, I'm thinking of taking a TLevel course on Programming (full stack, etc) do you think that's a good enough degree?

[gritty rivet]

I don't know about the UK but looking but job listings should give you an idea.

[dense mesa]

T levels weren't around when I finished 6th form (2019) but they seem pretty good from what I've heard, would definitely be looking at that too

[pseudo bone]

could anyone guide me on a good cv design for a developer

[peak halo]

if you want to anonymize your resume/CV and post it here, people could give feedback.

[ivory saffron]

Hello

My name is gaab, i love code, but I don't know if I really want to be a programmer, should I stay in the area?

[brittle thorn]

Stay in the field and see if you like it....if not move to an adjacent field maybe like project management that wont involve coding...how old are you btw...still in school?

[woven forge]

Do you guys have any tips for doing well on video interviews? Its my first internship interview this Monday and I don't know what to expect

[smoky quest]

• Practice presenting yourself and giving your background
• Do some jumping jacks a few minutes before to get the blood flowing
• Depending on the company, they may ask you to do a leetcode or two. Prepare for that
• Setup your webcam, computer, etc a good 20-30min before hand, in case something does not work
• Even though it's remote, make sure you are presentable. With webacams, pants are now optional :p but wearing something nice can help with your confidence

In general, interviews for internships will look more for potential and ability to learn/communicate than actual depth in a topic.

[woven forge]

Do you think their expectations would be different due to me still being a freshmen or?

[smoky quest]

the definition of an internship:
the position of a student or trainee who works in an organization, sometimes without pay, in order to gain work experience or satisfy requirements for a qualification.
-> they don't expect any experience

[woven forge]

A lot of the questions are behavior questions

[ornate ginkgo]

I'm looking up developer/programmer jobs in my country (New Zealand) and basically all of them seem to be about web development (both Python jobs and non-Python jobs), for which I lack knowledge or interest. How important is web development for jobs and what are programmer careers that don't require it?

[ivory saffron]

I'm nineteen years old and I'm already a computer technician, my dream is to become a Software Engineer.

[brittle thorn]

Any plans for going to uni...follow your dreams..

[ivory saffron]

yes, I think I will persist, I believe that's what I like. so i will invest in programming

[brittle thorn]

Good luck

[ivory saffron]

but I'm very bad at logic, I didn't code for a while due to my addictions and I was never the most organized person in the world, it ends up getting in the way a little.

[ivory saffron]

thank you!

[brittle thorn]

Practice and persistence makes a difference ...have a growth mindset

[ivory saffron]

ok

[summer roost]

that's to be expected, considering they don't expect very deep technical expertise from you yet. Most of what they're looking for is how teachable you are, and whether you'd be a pleasant person to interact with.

[gritty rivet]

To elaborate a bit more on what a growth mindset means here... Expect that anything worth learning will be difficult and require effort. The more difficult it is for you personally, the more persistence you will need. It doesn't matter if it seems easier for other people, that's completely irrelevant if you're committed to patiently and persistently work at it. You'll gradually gain confidence with practice. Anything whatsoever that is difficult for you now will get easier, but there will always be another difficult thing worth learning next.

[livid fiber]

could python be futureproofed atall in order avoid changing scripting languages, leading to new languages replacing it?

[peak halo]

this would be a question for #internals-and-peps. if you decide to pick up the conversation there, I wonder what you mean by "future proofed". what does it need? don't answer here.

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, it doesn't matter.
Languages are just tools and most engineers will have to use more than one in their job.
And if you are really a fan of python, there will be jobs about it, even if less numerous, the same way you can still find jobs about perl/cobol/fortran/php

[delicate bane]

i know the apprenticeship model isnt as common as internships in the states but would you say as a general rule, an apprentice is higher in value than an intern? or are they treated pretty much the same?

[smoky quest]

They don't factor much in the interview

[delicate bane]

eh i was just curious in general about how the company views them

[smoky quest]

they don't care

[delicate bane]

i see, sounds about right

[smoky quest]

What matters is whether you got your bs/ms/phd or not. Beyond that, it could be online, irl, through apprenticeship or whatever as long as it's the official papers

[delicate bane]

yeah im mostly just curious about apprenticeships since i havent seen many over here; some companies have them tho like LM

[smoky quest]

That's more of a personal opinion than a here is what is happening on the ground, but I believe it's more related to your preferred learning style

There are so many schools out there that people don't even know the specific differences, and neither could they if they wanted to.
So it comes down to whether you got your degree or not.

And going into the details, different apprenticeships at two different companies could look very different as well. So that adds to the complexity

[summer roost]

I'd think they'd be valued equally, since companies are unlikely to be able to weigh the value of any specific apprenticeship or internship against any other. The more months of internship/apprenticeship the better, but I don't think having an apprenticeship of N months would necessarily look any better (or worse) to employers than an internship of N months.

if, at the end of the program, you have a degree plus 18 months of work experience, that would be quite valuable. If you have only the work experience and no degree, I'd expect that it's relatively unlikely that any company except the one you apprenticed at would hire you - but that might still be enough to break you into the industry, and make it possible to transition to other jobs later.

[delicate bane]

its so interesting to think about because as much as we care about credentials/degrees, i feel like tech is one of those fields where a lot of learning can happen in apprenticeship/internship-like programs

[charred brook]

hey guys im 13 and want to be a aerospace engineer, do you know how i can get a head start?

😢

[amber plume]

What's the most commonly used technology besides learning a language that should be learnt to become a better backend developer?

[vapid jay]

AYo

[summer roost]

Get good grades, especially in science and math, do extracurriculars that you find interesting, and get into a university with a good engineering program. Internships in university are very helpful, too, if you can get them.

[buoyant seal]

Git for the win
https://learngitbranching.js.org/?locale=en_US

[restive elm]

Hi

[graceful mason]

Git + how to use your dev environment (eg CLion, VScode) effectively

[charred brook]

Thanks

[fiery python]

Hello

[novel yoke]

Hello

[obtuse talon]

hey
does anyone know any website where we can find people (friends) for our project/idea ?

[unreal hearth]

Does anyone have an experience with WGU?

[inland lintel]

hey

[inland lintel]

yoo

[lyric pond]

Being a backend developer isn't just about the language as you pointed out. In my experience you should also know about CI/CD and tools such as Jenkins, AWS, Travis CI etc. As a developer you should also know about containerising applications using Docker.

If you want to create backend APIs using JavaScript, you could go for Nodejs and Express, Python would be Flask or Django. It depends on what you fancy.

For data storage you could look at mongoDB, or any relational database using SQL.

Also there are other things like metrics where you can evaluate performance, these include API calls, CPU or memory usage. Tools such as Prometheus, Sematext, Graphite etc can be used.

I'm sure there are other things to look out for whilst looking to be a better backend developer.

Hope this helps.

[amber plume]

thanks, it's really interesting to know

[tepid dew]

What are some useful packages to use in data analysis using python? I'm pretty familiar with basic numpy, scipy, matplotlib.pyplot, pandas and beautifulsoup (ping me)

[empty moat]

Hello. I'm 14. I'm not sure what career to pick in the future cuz my interests are too broad. I currently have these skillsets:

Full understanding on Calculus I
Some programming knowledge on python
Experienced video editing
Basic Graphics Designing
Social media growth in YouTube (monetizable)

Currently learning:
Calculus II
Starting on physics and chemistry
Music production
Programming
Debate
Writing
Handwriting analysis

Consider:
Biology

Things I have stop:
Designing stuffs (Knowing basic skills on sketches, used to do it 5 years ago but was addicted to gaming that I wasted 8 hours per day for few years)

My talents:
🥇: Problem solving
🥈: Public speaking (No anxiety) /Leadership
🥉 : Creativity

Where should I aim myself to? There is simply too many options

I mean I only have 2 years left to pick my subjects in high school

[brittle thorn]

I think you have time to think over this question and explore what you are possibly interested in specializing in. Do well in school and keep your options wide open. Some people enter college and change majors

Even after you choose a major you can still change your career path...be flexible...It is hard to anticipate both technology shifts and job market shifts as well as anticipate changes in your own interests.

[gritty rivet]

You have the basics covered. What else to learn depends entirely on what you want to accomplish.

[gritty rivet]

If you haven't seen this: https://roadmap.sh/backend

They also have a Python roadmap and others on that site

[tepid dew]

Im interested in stock data analysis at the moment but find it hard to find the good packages

also hypothesis testing isn't going as smooth as I was hoping for

[inner wren]

Hey @frosty depot!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.bat). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[small wraith]

Hey guys, I am a high schooler whose currently in second year. Anyone from Ontario know any good universities to get into for CS?

[gritty rivet]

This is a good question to discuss with your HS guidance counselor, but University of Toronto's CS program is one of the best in Canada according to all the various rankings you can find on the web (McLeans, US News, etc.)

[turbid lake]

university of ottawa

or carleton

[fresh pond]

Freelancers out there, for those that sign clients on retainers. What are your rates and what is the thinking behind them? I’m getting in business and trying to figure this out. Thanks

[peak halo]

you should probably specify in which market you're working in. We have members all over the world in different markets with different currencies.

[fresh pond]

Thank you. I am based in Atlanta, GA, and my target market is US-based companies. I’m offering B2B services around Data Processing

[hollow perch]

hello

[peak halo]

Hello, this is the channel for discussing Python in the world of work.

[hollow perch]

interesting

i heard python is really important asset to have for a job

[peak halo]

Python is often used for certain parts of web development, systems automation, and in data science especially.

[hollow perch]

yes i meant that it is important to have as an skill it helps to find a job

[peak halo]

Data science is the only domain where Python is essentially required. Other types of programming jobs use it to varying extents, including not at all.

[summer roost]

the single best asset for a programming job is a CS or SE degree.

[mortal wedge]

How so?

Our last data scientist didn't know any Python, she used R

[frosty sail]

R can still be used in some places, but the python data science ecosystem is growing to dominate the field

[peak halo]

@mortal wedge does R have cuda enabled libraries for deep learning?

[gilded valley]

There's quite a few things in data science that necessitate python. Deep learning, and nlp being two examples

[mortal wedge]

No idea, I'm not a data scientist.

[gilded valley]

But if you're just doing EDA, data vis, and traditional stats, R is fine

[peak halo]

Case in point, my job is specifically deep learning for nlp, so I guess my perception is skewed.

[fossil tide]

Hi there!
My name is Zeeshan and I'm 21 years old. I am from Pakistan. I wanted to ask for some help. I'm not going to make it a long story. But, the thing is, I'm concerned about my future. I want to be something in my life. I've spent a lot of time improving my typing speed because I got addicted to it and still am. But now I got my account suspended on the website I used to type on because I thought it was the only way to get rid of this addiction. Can you tell me what I should learn to make my future bright? I do not have experience in anything besides typing. And I know I'm getting older. If I didn't decide something soon, then I won't be able to become anything in my life. It's my request, please, show me the way to be successful.

[gritty rivet]

I'm not from Pakistan and I've never been there. The best people to talk to are the ones around you. You must be here because you have an interest in Python. Could you enroll in university? Or do you already have a degree?

[fossil tide]

Yeah, I have an interest in Python, but I looked up and asked someone is it enough to get a job and they said NO, so I thought what's the point of learning Python if it can't get me a job and it will also take some time to learn it. And unfortunately, I don't have a degree. I'm trying to learn from the Internet. Also, I can't afford to get a degree. I don't know if there's some ways for me to be successful or maybe I'm gonna be like this the entire life.

[lime anchor]

if you want a job fast then learn web dev with a JS front-end framework

i have a degree but in IT not CS, started learning web dev at the beginning of the year and found difficulty in getting any Python job. But a got a lot of interviews for positions based on my React experience, took an offer a couple days ago. Might be different where you live though

[fossil tide]

Does web dev have anything to do with your education? Because I don't study anymore.

[peak halo]

Web development has the lowest barrier to entry.

[lime anchor]

only relevant stuff from my degree was an Intro CS course with basic Java. And a SQL class

both of which i'd mostly forgotten after a couple years lol

[fossil tide]

aha, but I don't have any experience in anything. Can I still learn web dev?

[lime anchor]

sure, plenty of people in the industry without a degree

check out some tutorials like on YouTube or Fullstackopen. You can learn something like Flask if you wanna write a backend in Python

[fossil tide]

Do I have to learn Python before learning Web Dev? Or Web Dev is enough on its own?

[lime anchor]

python is one of many languages that can potentially be used in web dev. Check out the jobs you can access and see what tech stacks they list in the description so you can figure out the most marketable skills

[smoky quest]

Go from the other way around. Look at the demand in your area and learn what's required for that.

The part about the degree requirement is typically geared towards career opportunities and the type of jobs you could get with vs without a degree. Your case is less typical and it's not like you could get a degree apparently anyway

[fossil tide]

I'm not sure about my country, we're far behind in these things, there are not many people who know to code.

That's why I asked you what should I learn first

[smoky quest]

If there is no demand for software engineer in your country, then there wouldn't be much hiring going on and thus learning anything would lead to the same result of not finding a job since people aren't hiring software engineers.
That said, I doubt there are no software jobs in Pakistan

[fossil tide]

Can you tell me about python and web dev a little more? Are these two linked? I mean if I learn one, can I still get a job or do I have to learn the other as well?

[lime anchor]

professional programmers generally learn multiple languages

I like knowing Python for the coding interviews even tho I'm not gonna be using it at work for now, doing leetcode stuff with javascript would be pain

[fossil tide]

Well, there is demand, but most of the people here are not aware of coding. And many aren't educated as well. There's less people

[smoky quest]

Doesn't really matter what others do or not know.
What matters is: what are the jobs companies are hiring for in your area?

[fossil tide]

Well, becoming professional is hard, I want to learn something in short period of time, once I get a job then I can be a professional, but for now something easy to learn just to get a job.

[true harness]

are being a professional and getting a job not the same thing?

[fossil tide]

Well, I actually live in a Village, I don't know if we have something related to coding here.

[smoky quest]

Then start with something like html/css to work on websites/wordpress or other lighter jobs. But you will have to be at the level to be hired, companies won't hire you without you being able to demonstrate the skills they are looking for

[sharp thunder]

Hi guys , I work as a system admin right now and still looking for a python devop job. I know basics python being self taught but haven’t used it in my jobs and right now trying to learn Django . In order to get a job in this field what would I have to do to increase my chances to secure a python devop job?

[fossil tide]

I mean once I learn something to get a job, then I can get a job on the internet as well.

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/devops is a good start.
Look also for the SRE books from google. They are available for free online

[fossil tide]

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll see what I can do.

[smoky quest]

Also as a sysadmin, there are tons of python related opportunities. Look at ansible for instance

[storm raft]

1. how often do you have access to a computer and internet these days? if you have good access to both then learning web development is a good idea - as that is a good entry point, like others said
2. web development - is basically making websites, like what you see on the internet. it is of two types, frontend which is the part everybody sees and backend which is a support system for front end.
3. frontend web dev is a good entry point to internet jobs
4. python is one of the languages in which web development (and other coding tasks) are done and it is relatively easy to learn, another option is javascript which is also very popular

about your situation
5. since you are good at typing, maybe find a data entry job nearby? that will get you closer to a computer and the internet
6. maybe you can also try to learn microsoft word and microsoft excel - two software which even small establishments use for data entry and general printing - these might help you get a first job depending on your location

---

sorry mods for slightly off-topic reply

[summer roost]

sorry mods for slightly off-topic reply
@storm raft this channel is by no means specific to Python, since as noted above, most real world jobs require knowledge of multiple languages. Data entry is a bit off topic, but I think it's well within the scope of reasonable advice in this situation, so no worries at all.

[storm raft]

🙂

[rapid plover]

Some brazilian?

[next ocean]

hey guys! i am new here, i am having trouble choosing a project for my final sem in uni, i would like to make a project on machine learning, any idea where can i get help from and get the project done? are there any good courses in udemy which can help?

[smoky quest]

#data-science-and-ml ?

[tribal verge]

Guys i am gonna start learning programing, i'm going to start with python, dont know whether i should go with web or software development, please give me an accurate reason to go with one of them.

[low ridge]

Hi guys
a quick question
I have been on an interview, which lasted several rounds, and the references were contacted, but I have not heard from them for the past week.. should I go ahead and contact the recruiter or should I wait?

[smoky quest]

What's your situation and goal?

[smoky quest]

After a week, it's reasonable to say hi and check in

These things should go fast, especially if they want to close with the candidate

[low ridge]

I would agree. It did go fast, it was several technical rounds and assessments, It was very fast for me atleast...

I would say, in terms of hours, i would have spent atleast 12-16 hours of interview alone wiith the managers, recruiters and team members

[smoky quest]

do you have other interviews in parallel?

[low ridge]

Yes I do

[smoky quest]

that's a lot

[smoky quest]

If you are any close to another offer, it could be used as a way to bring some fire under them

[tribal verge]

i am 18 and can't continue my study, and have free time and my goal is to get a job in that field as soon as possible.

[smoky quest]

Why not getting a degree? That's the easiest and safest route?

[low ridge]

Was thinking about the same, I have two interviews ongoing, both of them are in the final stages.. But I have not gotten any offers as of now

[tribal verge]

i feel like i can be a self taught dev

[smoky quest]

You could mention are in the final stages with some other companies.
But if the first company is looking at the references, it means they are already at the offer stage and thus would try to close the req asap.
So either way, it's good to say hi and ask for updates

[smoky quest]

what does that mean? What makes you think so?

[tribal verge]

i spent a lot of time on my pc thats what makes me think so, and have a good typing speed as well

[smoky quest]

How would that make you stand out comparing to all the other candidates with a degrees and internships and experience and projects?
typing speed is irrelevant to software engineering

[tribal verge]

i have heard from some of them, and they think self learning is faster

[smoky quest]

that's bs

[tribal verge]

really?

[smoky quest]

yep. Companies will receives hundreds of resumes with 99% of them from candidates with degrees, internships and appropriate experience. So anyone without these credentials would have a hard time to compete

Doing the self learning route is doing life in extreme hardcore difficulty

[tribal verge]

ik bro, but there are no school here in my city that i can join, so unfortunately this is the only route.

[smoky quest]

Think about it. Someone with a degree has been to school to study CS full time for 3-5 years. For a comparison point, think about yourself and what you knew 3-5 years ago comparing to now. And try to project that to another 3-5 years.

[smoky quest]

Try to join a school not too far or look for online degrees

So I am not saying you won't be able to find a job without a degree, but your career will definitely not look the same. Your career and compensation will be a lot lower than if you had a degree

[gilded valley]

Where in the world do you live? That has a big impact on how relevant a degree is

[tribal verge]

can you give me little information on online degrees, I'm down to look into it.

[tribal verge]

Pakistan

[smoky quest]

yeah, someone from Pakistan may be able to better help

[tribal verge]

i dont know anyone how can help

[gilded valley]

Advice for something like this from Americans/Europeans likely isn't at all helpful to you and could end up just being completely wrong

[smoky quest]

yeah, what I said would be more relevant to USA/EU/Asia, but given the current situation in Pakistan, it may be completely different there

[tribal verge]

alright, I will actually go out and find some schools, Thank you @smoky quest and @gilded valley for the help.

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[velvet mica]

Alot of international students from pakistan attended universities in UK through scholarships, maybe thats something you can look into?

[tribal verge]

i have no scholarships and i can't travel that far. ik it will be hard af to find a good school, but it is what it is

[vapid jay]

what are some good websites to practice coding, mainly for coding interviews.. for companies like Microsoft and Google..

There's a lot of options but I want to mainly focus on select companies, how they approach problem / coding interview questions..

I need money, so i need a freelancer site for new workers too. If you have a site send it, please. (mention or dm me)

[gritty rivet]

LeetCode seems to be the gold standard, and if I had to pick a #2, probably CodeWars

[gritty rivet]

UpWork is the most popular, but any such platform takes time to get yourself established. Expect to give away some freebies or very cheap jobs to build your reputation

[peak halo]

code combat has the kinds of problems you'd be asked if your interviewer decides to go that route https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/?type=interactive

My friend who works for Google said that (according to his observation) Google does live coding/whiteboard questions to validate that any portfolio content they have for the interviewee (like github contributions) were actually written by the interviewee. So it might be that solving the problem and solving it correctly are relatively unimportant as long as you demonstrate that you approach the problem like a programmer.

Though take all that with a grain of salt.

[pure raft]

I am ripping my hair out trying to find a school lol!! I live in the NYC area and all the unis I’m emailing about online bachelors programs none of them are coming up. I’d figure that being online with this major would be easier than say, mid-wifery, lmfaooo-any suggestions?

[peak halo]

do they need to be in the NYC area? in the state of new york specifically (no Connecticut or NJ)?

[pure raft]

Yeah it’s mainly for financial loan reasons that it helps me to be in-state

[peak halo]

I see. I'm trying to understand what the dilemma is. you don't know which universities in the new york state part of the NYC area have computer science programs?

(for users outside the US, tuition at public universities is lower for residents of the state that it's in. and then new york city is a city within the larger state of new york, and the new york city metro area includes parts of at least three states, depending on where you cut it off.)

[umbral wave]

Does anyone know how doctorates in computer science work?

[gritty rivet]

If you're in the city but need online, I'm guessing this would be a good deal: https://sps.cuny.edu/academics/undergraduate/bachelor-science-information-systems-bs

[pure raft]

Yeah so, I’m a working teacher, so I can’t be physically going to the school every day like I used to, so it’d have to be online

[frosty sail]

I have a doctorate in STEM and can speak to general questions. where are you currently in the world, and where would you like to study for a phd?

[gritty rivet]

Are you asking what work people do after they earn such degrees?

[umbral wave]

I'm just curious about the subjects

[gritty rivet]

SUNY also has an AS in Comp Sci: https://explore.suny.edu/pathways/computerscience_it

[frosty sail]

the total sum of computer science phd research would cover basically everything you could possibly think of

[umbral wave]

Yeah just in general, I'm looking into the career

[peak halo]

@frosty sail at what stage of your career did you get the phd? my company wants me to get a phd and would pay for it, though I haven't yet gotten clarification on what the work arrangement would be for that. I just have a BSc currently.

[umbral wave]

Is it possible to get a doctorate by modeling math concepts?

[frosty sail]

Do you mean something like computational algebraic solvers, cus if so, then yeah I think so. If your interest is in the intersection of math and computers, you may also want to look into Math PhDs. If you have very specific research topics you want to study, you'll probably need to find specific professors that do that specific research and ask if they're accepting new students. If you've got more generic interests, you could just apply to some math or CS phd programs and work on what you wind up in - most phd programs have an introductory year or two where you work in multiple labs, talk to a lot of professors, before settling down.

[frosty sail]

I studied for my PhD right out of my bachelor's. It's a fairly common path for phds in STEM in the USA. I don't quite understand the "your company would pay you for your PhD" comment - that would be very atypical, at least in the US and EU. Almost all STEM phd students in the US and EU get free tuition, and get paid by the university. Does your company have a very intimate connection with a specific professor's research lab?

[peak halo]

no, it's a research and development company, so it's one of the benefits.

[frosty sail]

Tho I'd say in my experience about half of phd students had a couple years of normal work experience before going for the phd, and half were right out of undergrad

[pure raft]

Actually this happened to my buddy too, his job is waiting for him to finish his PHD that they’re paying him to get from Carnegie Mellon

The company (major electronics company in US) gave him the job, then paid him to get his masters AND his PHD, both our families were going crazy over it

[pure raft]

Don’t I need a bachelor though, right?

[frosty sail]

So maybe what they mean is they'd reimburse whatever professor you end up working for for your funding? A graduate student all together costs a professor about $100K-$200K per year, even tho a typical graduate student salary is only $30K-$40K per year. If that's the case, it would free up your choices for which professor to work for significantly, and may even help your admission chances to universities that aren't in the very tippy-top reputation wise. Or do you mean they keep paying you a salary while you are studying? I'd make sure you're very clear on the details, and make sure whatever university & professor you end up working for is very clear as well. There would be legal implications that could affect your day-to-day work (e.g. are you allowed to do teaching assistant positions? Do they expect your research to be on a particular topic?)

[honest pivot]

It's possible what they mean by "pay for your PhD" is that you wouldn't have to work as a TA for funding.

And pay your salary, yeah.

[pure raft]

I’m not sure the exact details but I do know that he is getting paid for a job (that hes in school for) and hasn’t spent a dime on graduate education altogether

[gritty rivet]

4 years is better than 2 years... I would only suggest an AS of going straight to a BS is cost prohibitive for you

[frosty sail]

right well like I said, getting paid a salary and not having to spend any money on tuition is the norm for STEM PhDs in the USA and EU

[honest pivot]

A PhD is nearly a full-time job, though. When I did mine, they could theoretically assign us 20 hours of TA work per week, but in reality it was around 10 (or less, if you could grade homeworks efficiently). But the rest of that time was definitely spent on doing PhD research. Is your company going to expect you to be working while you get your PhD? (And if so, hopefully not more than part time)

[pure raft]

Yeah I was kind of only looking at bachelors degrees

@raymond.j.gasper#0333 ahhh okay yeah gotcha

[frosty sail]

20 hours!?!? holy hell

[honest pivot]

The most I was ever actually assigned was 12. And I could not make it shorter by being efficient, because it was running 4 3-hour lab exercises per week for undergrads.

[frosty sail]

that's brutal

[peak halo]

Is your company going to expect you to be working while you get your PhD?
yes, that's part of the deal. though I haven't established how much one could overlap company work and phd work.

[frosty sail]

averaged over my PhD I probably did less than 5 hours per week, and my PI was very upset I had to do that much

[honest pivot]

Yeah, after that I deliberately sought out being assigned to grade homeworks for graduate-level courses, they're much easier to deal with than undergrad ones, and the professors vastly overestimated how much time it should take me, so I got off pretty easy. 🙂

[frosty sail]

I'd bet they expect you to work in a particular field then - which is great if you like that field and want to continue working in it, but I would say that if you really think you want to do a phd in different work, leave the company's offer on the table and go with your gut

[honest pivot]

PhD work is scientific research, meant to be published. It's like the opposite of what a company does.

[frosty sail]

depends on the field

[honest pivot]

ok, I dunno what a computer science PhD does. Mine is in physics.

[frosty sail]

pharmaceutical companies, for example, publish a lot of work. collaborations b/w professors and pharma companies is very common in Boston and Bay Area

[honest pivot]

The company I work at also publishes, but we definitely don't publish the actual valuable stuff.

[frosty sail]

well, sure, but if it's a big company there's more than enough work that's not core to the business to publish some of it

[frosty sail]

nice, grad courses are so much easier to TA - usually more fun too

[slim raven]

Is it okay to put a project on your resume if it's not finished and you don't have much to show yet?

[frosty sail]

If someone asks to see it and you'd be proud to show it to them, go ahead. If not, don't.

[bitter basin]

fellow hollow knight player?

[steep mirage]

What kind of stuff did programmers used to do when they were kids? I've noticed some patterns on how people's interests as kids are similar to their interests as adults (for example my brother was really interested in Legos as a kid and now he's a 3d designer), and I am interested if programmers are the same way.

[summer bison]

I too am still a considered a kid, but I really loved videogames when I was really young; but not like fps games. Mainly games with very technical things, games like Scrap mechanic, Minecraft (but the nerdy redstone portions mainly) I loved

[slim vine]

I am in second semester of advanced diploma and learning python and mySQL . I have 4 month summer break . Can anyone recommend particular internship positions focused on this two or suggest the positions on which i should do the internships, I have knowledge of C#, JavaScript also

[smoky quest]

Internships could be about a lot of things. The closer related to your degree, the better.
So I wouldn't recommend to restrict yourself to python/mysql as there are a lot of things out there and picking them up may not take that much time

[slim vine]

thanks:)

[peak halo]

what do you mean by "advanced diploma"? is this high school, and is it in the US?

[slim vine]

in canada , the course is computer programming and analysis

[peak halo]

the course. what degree program are you in?

[slim vine]

diploma degree, under graduate

[peak halo]

Is this in Quebec?

[slim vine]

ontario,

[peak halo]

I see. I don't know what a "diploma degree" is. In my usage, a degree is the certification you get when you graduate, and a diploma is just a physical document.

Does your university have a career service center?

[slim vine]

yes we have co-op term but it is next year, this time its mandatory break and i dont want to waste 4 months so trying find it on my own

[peak halo]

did you ask your university's career service center what companies might hire interns during that time period? they will know the local job market better than random people on Discord.

[slim vine]

right now its mandatory break so they can not help, they will help on regular term

[peak halo]

oh okay. I didn't know that "mandatory break" meant that.

[slim vine]

yeah😅

[umbral wave]

Thanks, that's really helpful

[sturdy granite]

what's a decent project idea for a backend engineer at entry level

[coral dawn]

Can anyone help me with finding a research topic for undergrad thesis?

I want to do something that helps undeveloped/poor countries. Something that has a practical value.

[brittle thorn]

Look around and check for ways to help your community... where do you live and what are the problems that they face.. If your area is agricultural there are many topics in Computer Sciemce or Bioinformatics can help with crop management. Use appropriate technology and think outside the box... Not everyone has the latest gadgets so factor that in as a constraint.

[proud granite]

хай

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.rar). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[gritty rivet]

Have you made an API that can perform CRUD operations? If not start there. I would use Postgres as the DB. You can use any framework you like but if you're not sure, maybe start with FastAPI. Then you could build out a similar project with Django which may get a little more complicated

The content of the DB can be absolutely anything that interests you. You can find an existing schema or design one yourself

[near ocean]

i would recommend the flask mega tutorial by mr grinberg
its in the !resources but here's a link
https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world

[sturdy granite]

I have

[gritty rivet]

Then I would think about what relevant skills you haven't yet demonstrated in your portfolio and focus there. Check this if you haven't: https://roadmap.sh/backend

[safe loom]

Anybody tried Fiverr and know how you can make a Gig out of data engineer skills?

Asking because I desperately need a job and not even poorly-rated IT agencies want my application

[gritty rivet]

You could try UpWork. But getting freelance work isn't necessarily easier than getting a job. Have you had feedback on your resume? How are you going about networking to find jobs?

[safe loom]

Yeah I was told my resume is quite eye-catching, simple and original. Been applying to 400 offers so far and only got 2 interviews (both failed) for an entry position.

Networking is so-so. All my bootcamp friends don't have any positions to offer me, or they did but I got no news from them ever since.

[past nova]

How do you guys you're ready for a job or know you mastered python?

[gritty rivet]

You've never master it and you never feel ready. You apply for jobs and work on your skills until you get a job

[past nova]

Decent.

so you have experience working?

[gritty rivet]

How did your bootcamp friends find their jobs and what did they do differently? They are the best ones to advise you.

[safe loom]

Networking. Also staying longer in their company too.

[past nova]

Im a solo one

[gritty rivet]

I'm very new to software engineering (less than 2 weeks) but yes I've been working for many years

[safe loom]

The thing with networking, Idk how I could approach people in a subtle way and asking them "hey, got a job for me?"

[past nova]

communication is key

[frosty sail]

not to be harsh, but if the feedback you're getting is 1) your resume looks great, and 2) you're not getting offers or interviews, that suggests to me that what is lacking is probably skills/experience content in the resume

do you have a public porfolio on a personal website, or github?

Do you meet a majority of the skills and education requirements on the positions you are applying for?

[past nova]

how you first become expert on a programming language?

[gritty rivet]

What was helpful for me was asking questions about their job search. Ask them how they found their job, what the interview process was like, etc. If they have a lead they will tell you. More likely they can recommend a recruiter or give you other advice.

The job I got was a job where my friend failed the interview. He didn't give me any kind of direct referral, but at least I had some inside info on what the early rounds were like and that gave me an advantage bhe didn't have

[gilded valley]

Yeah I was told my resume is quite eye-catching, simple and original.
That's a very interesting mix of adjectives, it might be worth trying something more typical.

[safe loom]

I have a Github + I have experience as a data scientist as an intern (1 year). Most offers require 2 and unfortunately I can't exactly boost my skills while looking for a job because most of my day is about applying to nth offers.

[gilded valley]

oh I remember your CV actually

is it still like this?

[safe loom]

No I changed it

[brittle thorn]

Ah be interesting...attend meetups and let it be organic if possible... build friendships and contacts for the long term

[gritty rivet]

I'm far, far from "expert". I played around with personal projects, did a part-time bootcamp, and that was about it. I was somewhat lucky to find a job where fairly basic Python skills is all that's needed

Those jobs do exist

[safe loom]

They had an old network way back from bootcamp they told me. Most of my network is only ex master students that all went into research or became moms at home.

Hence why my network is so poor.

[frosty sail]

A year of internship is definitely a boost - and what are the skills and education requirements of the jobs you're applying for?

[past nova]

One thing among all programmers is that they are so quite about their knowledge

[safe loom]

I have an Azure Data Scientist associate badge so i can show it off to prove I'm not completely bullshitting about cloud technology (required for most positions). I'm comfy with Python, I had to learn React on my own during work, I often use Docker, my biggest weakness is big data (we didn't practice much)

@brittle thorn I should do that if they reorganize AI meetups (preferably physical)

[gritty rivet]

LinkedIn is a pretty valuable resource. If you take a genuine interest in people's career paths many will be willing to network

[safe loom]

COVID and the pandemic really fucked up my communication skills, even when I had my internship (everything was done remotely) so now I feel kinda awkward talking to people.

Not sure if it's the same for any NEET around here.

[past nova]

highly competitive people think they are not as good as actually they are, and inversely incompetetitve people think they are as good as they are actually

[brittle thorn]

Yep I prefer meat space meetups..

[frosty sail]

yeah that's a solid skill set for a junior software engineer (IMO). What positions are you applying for?

[past nova]

What is a data scientist

[safe loom]

Mostly entry level positions but imo I'm lacking buisness and marketing skills (I'm originally from a scientific background).

[brittle thorn]

Lol same

[safe loom]

@frosty sail The one I got an interview for demanded being comfy with ETL, PHP/MySQL and being used to datamarts.

[gritty rivet]

Almost the same a a "statistician". But Data Scientists tend to work more with Python, sometimes including machine learning stuff. There is a #data-science-and-ml channel if you want to know more

[brittle thorn]

Probably a data engineer position

[past nova]

How old you guys

[safe loom]

It was. Data scientist positions however demand a maths background (mine is more physics-oriented).

[safe loom]

I recently turned 28 and I've been trying to find a stable full-time position for 5 years after my initial masters.

[past nova]

cool

ah this slowmode way too slow

[brittle thorn]

Ah the Covid has interupted many career paths so dont sweat it too much

[frosty sail]

@safe loom that seems like a decent skills to job market fit to me. Sorry I can't help more. I'll share that I had to apply to around 150 jobs over six months to get my first job in data engineering/data science, despite having a PhD and internships under my belt. The blessing of online job applications is everyone has a lot of options, but the curse is that that means everyone can be very picky

[brittle thorn]

I have met Physics Majors in DS ..
I am a Chem Major and done one DS project in a small startup

[frosty sail]

yeah experience in any STEM degree is relevant for Data Science

i find I see most often in Data science jobs - aside from computer science phds - physics phds

[safe loom]

Yeah I spent 2 years trying to get into ground engineering only to discover the field was full and I got some bad experience with stuck up boomers, then spent 3 years trying to get into software engineering then data science.

I could argue that my main masters gave me some experience with data science using MATLAB scripts too.

[brittle thorn]

Yeah job hunting is an exercise in frustration

[brittle thorn]

Eh yeah I have used Matlab too lol

[pliant tide]

Hey sup

[safe loom]

1. Get ghosted
2. Receive the traditional mail saying "We're sorry to inform you that..."

Also I've learned that at least 50 people wanted to have the same position.

[past nova]

Im in tenth grade and thinking become expert at python and some othe language before my graduate

[gritty rivet]

That's great, should help you get in to a good university

[brittle thorn]

Maybe teach for a while if you cant get into industry then improve your skills. I did that once

[past nova]

I have two idea of career in the future

[gritty rivet]

That's all normal. At some level it's just the numbers game... You keep applying and applying until something sticks eventually. If you learned anything from the interviews that don't work out, you can improve your resume and prepare better for the next

[past nova]

you should believ in yourself

If u ask me whats the most importsnt thing I learned in my life is that the fact that failure is not a big deal

[brittle thorn]

That is good advice

[past nova]

Its wont enough

understanding and doing is two seperate things

[safe loom]

I'd like to improve data engineer skills but I'm not sure if it works on 1 physical machine and several VMs.

@past nova It's not a big deal if you still have something to lay on. But when you need money to pay the rent and you realize you've wasted 5 years doing a degree that doesn't pay off, this is where the cost begins to sink in.

Mostly because you realize you want to change your path, there's already people with better experience / a better background than you who have increased chances in this game.

[past nova]

For example, people do realize that if they pay attention on what they eat, they would be healthy, its the understanding,if they truly apply this understanding to reality and do it, it would be doing

[past nova]

I see

[frosty sail]

@safe loom if you're not too familiar with SQL, brushing up on that would be the biggest easy win as far as data engineering goes on the skills section of the resume.

[safe loom]

I should resume training on these. Idk if Hackerrank problems are enough.

[past nova]

There,s always people who better at things than you, its a fact. But u
know that you have your own unique aspect that lift you above other people.

[brittle thorn]

Yep that is the issue with Data Enginering it helps if you have acesss to hardware and test things at scale.. Leverage your science and math background if you can ...you can still be a Data Scientist for a small startup...network

[past nova]

You're still young, i think my man

[gritty rivet]

I have multiple irrelevant MA degrees and know what it's like to have no money, so feel your pain there. Gave up on my old career, started over in desktop support in my mid-30s making $15/hour. Right now I'm thrilled to be making what's considered very low money for an SWE, my coworkers are all in their early 20s and I'm twice their age but don't mind at all

[past nova]

If im not wrong, the founder of intel was so old when he found Intel

[brittle thorn]

I think the degree will pay off eventually.. have patience

[gritty rivet]

There's a lot you can do that way, but the DEs I know mostly seem to play on the public cloud platforms. Doesn't have to be expensive but you do need to be careful

[past nova]

Its just so hard to imagine I wasted years on the things I think
useless.

[brittle thorn]

Yes it can get really expensive if you arent careful

[brittle thorn]

Look for a niche you can fill with your skills and talents ....I think you have solid maths and analytical skills... It may take time but a focused search might be more efficient than casting a wide net.

[past nova]

Its also good choice for me if I been same situation as him, i wiudl call it off a week and relax my mind to prevent further bad decsions as he referred he wasted degrees

I will analyze my mind, and clarify what I really want in life, whats my ultimate passion

[safe loom]

Yeah maybe I can always improve these by looking at PDFs from math classes. I'm not specialized in maths but I still have experience with differential equations, statistics and probabilities and linear algebra.

@gritty rivet Yeah, plus I think I burned all my free credit on GCP. Not sure what DigitalOcean proposes but rn I'm avoiding smoking out money when I can.
If it's reassuring, most bootcampers were older than me and there was even a baker in her 40s who still landed a job in IT.

[past nova]

Then chances are going to regret again would become low

[brittle thorn]

All useful in ML and DS

[gritty rivet]

Can always create a new Google (or AWS or Azure) account I suppose?

[brittle thorn]

Yeah the credits are tiny lol

[safe loom]

Does this work with the same credit card? Because I can always try GCP on another account.

[past nova]

Whats GCP

[frosty sail]

another slight win as far as just playing the odds goes would be to switch your skills-development to AWS or azure (you mention you already have an azure cert, so AWS would be maximum playing-the-field). AWS has a bit over 3x the market share of GCP. (source - https://www.wpoven.com/blog/cloud-market-share/)

thats pretty marginal tho, I think most employers won't really care and would take experience in any cloud platform. But what do I know, I'm just one guy

[brittle thorn]

Google Cloud Platform

[past nova]

oh

whats that

[frosty sail]

https://cloud.google.com/

[past nova]

Its nice

[safe loom]

I'd try AWS mostly because it has a Python CLI. Azure too but the toolkit is a bit tricky to use.

[past nova]

Whats Azure

It reminds me Azula of the Avatar
hha

[brittle thorn]

Microsoft's cloud

[past nova]

u guys have a wide knowledge

I have a long way to become a decent programmer

[peak halo]

the learning never actually stops

[brittle thorn]

We all started where you came from

[past nova]

thats somehow has two meaning to me xD

[peak halo]

reminds me of the plaque on the wall at the capuchin crypt.

[frosty sail]

I mean if you're a teenager some of us in here have been writing code longer than you've been alive lol

[gritty yoke]

bro what 💀

[past nova]

possible?

oh u mean

[frosty sail]

I took my first software class my first year of high school, and never stopped for more than a few months at a time, so I've been writing code in some form or another pretty consistently for almost 20 years

[past nova]

so u are now kinda expert?

[frosty sail]

depends what you mean by that

[past nova]

expert of being a perogrammer?

[frosty sail]

I know more than some, but less than others.

[past nova]

ur cat is cute

[frosty sail]

thanks, I'd say he appreciates it but he's a sour old man, so he won't. But we like him

[past nova]

how old are you if you coded more than 20 years?

[frosty sail]

almost 20 years. I took my first coding class when I was 14, and I'm in my early 30s now

[past nova]

nice

I started learning programming accidentally

One nigh I just watching bunch of
youtube videos and saw one asian guy doing something unique, then here i am xZd

xD

[thorn crypt]

Im wondering what this channel is for, are there jobs where u can work just with knowing (programming) python ? 😮 I always tought for IT jobs or the normal programming job u need more than just one language ?

[vapid jay]

guys i have on doubt or problem i am new to python

[peak halo]

this channel is for career discussion; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[frosty sail]

you will almost always need to know more than just how to write python code. Bash or powershell scripting, SQL, and javascript are very often desired skills in software in general.

[thorn crypt]

Ah okay, thank u, cause i was wondering 😄

[safe loom]

One of the most annoying parts on job seeking is the annoying form filling that you have to do over and over. Especially when it can't even parse your resume correctly.

[gritty rivet]

Rarely worth it unless you really want to the job IMHO. Look for startups and other companies where you can just email your resume to a human. I'm not saying never fill in a tedious form, but I'm very strategic about investing that kind of time in one job application

[gritty rivet]

It is possible to find jobs like mine where basic Python is the primary technical skill and no other language is required, but they are not so common

[safe loom]

The last one couldn't even parse LinkedIn fields appropriately so I gave up on this one.

[sharp thunder]

So just knowing python and Django wouldn’t be enough for python devop jobs?

[frosty sail]

devops is an almost entirely different skillset than python + django, which sounds more like a backend web-dev skillset

[buoyant talon]

Hi, I'm new to programming and would really love to hear some advice from you on how could i get my self started in coding for mastering frontend?

[near ocean]

first of all you want to learn javascript
you can get started here https://javascript.info/ and the MDN documentation for JavasScript and HTML5/CSS3

[lusty lance]

Learning python got any tips on where I should start/where sould I learn from

books, videos, any online tutors

[thorn crypt]

What is ur job called ?

[gritty rivet]

Titles at this level are all over the place but I'm basically considered an software engineer

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[gritty rivet]

@lusty lance check this, also the #python-discussion channel

[lusty lance]

thanks

[pure raft]

Okay so, looking into schools, with my dream being NYU. 3.4 in college GPA for previous bachelors and associates (each) but I won’t list my associates unless y’all think it’s good to have. I’m going to include a resume too, but I’m also looking at:
-Umass Lowell
-Johnson & wales
-University of FLoRiDa

Any other online bachelor programs you recommend in the U.S.?

[pseudo bone]

does anyone here have experience wd django?

[peak halo]

You should ask in #web-development. but be sure to ask your actual question, not if someone knows about a topic.

[topaz fable]

Yes, we have a team

[pseudo bone]

could u tell me what dispatch function does in a class based view

[topaz fable]

Will ask my team to give answer to your question

[smoky quest]

That's the wrong place to ask. You are in #career-advice where discussions are about #career-advice .
You would have more chance in #❓｜how-to-get-help

[gusty pagoda]

what is the best thing to study to start on Python?

[gritty rivet]

Whatever motivates you to keep going :) But that's a better question for #python-discussion

[wide oracle]

I'm looking to build a career in software development and I'm hoping that in the next 6 months i can hard crunch, learn a lot and build some projects to get me any kind of job making software. Right now I'm learning python, building a game with pygame, and trying to come up with other small projects i can make on my own to test my knowledge and build a portfolio. Any advice?

[smoky quest]

It's a marathon, not a sprint.
So keep up with it and don't let the ups and downs have outsized influence.
In any case, it's gonna be a lot of fun!

[gritty rivet]

I see WGU mentioned a lot, also ASU.... https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/t4dfcn/university_program/

[pure raft]

Gonna peep those, thanks! Really shooting for NYU big time 🙏🏻

[willow lagoon]

cybersecurity a good field?

[smoky quest]

it's a growing field

[peak halo]

seems to be. I doubt it's going away... ever.

[north island]

what does good mean for you?

high salary? rewarding?

[peak halo]

My observation is that cybersecurity pays very well. though whether or not the asker finds it rewarding depends on their personal interests, and the culture/work-life balance of wherever they find themselves working.

[delicate bane]

seems like decent growth potential too

[slender vale]

who wants to be a nba player

[brittle thorn]

Increasingly good with all the security issues, state backed hackers, ransomware, etc

[pure raft]

Cyber and healthcare they said will be the only two fields to survive the in unforeseeable

[brisk kettle]

is turing.com (job site) legit, I think it's kinda malicious, I have no idea how it got my username (not the email name but username), they told me they're interested in my profile (i dont think i have any traffic on my repos), and they want to hire me to do remote jobs

[near ocean]

This isnt related to the channel

[main plaza]

well i will change it

[brisk kettle]

uh, mines? sorry then

[near ocean]

Well, yours too but i was talking about another user's post, which has since been deleted

[brisk kettle]

i'll try include more info 😩

[near ocean]

You get a pink role

[sand mortar]

I plan on getting a CS Degree can anyone summarise what they teach

[dense mesa]

What is computation and what can be computed on

[near ocean]

It depends on the school you go to and the course you pick
Different schools put out different curricula, you should look up your target schools and their CS/EE depts for courses

[hardy geode]

Hello guys, do you think it's possible to become a front end developer without any formal education?

[near ocean]

Not very python related but yes
Its hard but possible

[hasty harness]

Is there any valid certification I can do to make a switch in data science field?
I am working as a security analyst. I don't want to continue in this domain. So i am thinking of making a switch

[gritty rivet]

I could be wrong (I'm not DS myself, don't know what country you are, etc.) but I think building a portfolio of projects will be more valuable then any specific certificate. There are plenty of DS bootcamps if you feel the need to go that route

[sudden quartz]

Why the switch?

[hasty harness]

Not interested in this work.
Doesnt excite me

[sudden quartz]

What did you do and what didnt you like about it @hasty harness . Cybersec seems to be trash and the median low end but awesome on the high end, whereas software engineering has far more enjoyable positions on the low end unless youre in data engineering and without data mining responsibilities

[native leaf]

how doable is getting a job in software eng in september if i'm currently at OOP (py)?

I have basic html and css knowledge

[sudden quartz]

@native leaf and you have no college degree? no chance, make a portfolio then you can talk mabye

[native leaf]

i'll have a college degree but not in cs

[gritty rivet]

Impossible to say. Start applying ASAP and you'll better understand where you're at. There are some jobs out there that only require basic Python and web skills but not many

[sudden quartz]

thats different, you may be able to apply your knowledge to your projects and get hired. either way you need a portfolio website

[native leaf]

what would you recommend, like what skills should I try to pick up so I can apply for a job in september?

[gritty rivet]

You need to figure out what you're aiming for. Applying for jobs is a good way to develop an understanding of the job market

roadmap.sh is also helpful

[native leaf]

well my end goal would be machine learning and owning my company, but I'm planning on continuing my education via a computer science msc.. 2022/23 would just be getting some sort of job untill I can apply for that masters so I'm not sitting on my ass wasting time

[strange apex]

Guys, I am a phyton beginner. Like I learned the basic codes , how functions and how window work. What should be my next step?

[gritty rivet]

Build stuff. Anything you want, doesn't really matter what as long as it keeps you going. Text-based games (blackjack, dungeon adventure, trivia, etc.) are a good option for beginners

[daring root]

depends on what you want to use python for

[desert jackal]

I want to learn how to create websites for myself. I also want to learn how to create apps as well

[sudden quartz]

If youre serious about that might want to get that Masters for sure

[desert jackal]

is this the place to learn it?

[sudden quartz]

Learn data analysis and statistics too

[sudden quartz]

No. Learning happens in your mind and with your fingers, we can provide resources and guidance for that to occur.

[desert jackal]

Ok. I just wanted to know places where I can go learn and practice this stuff. I have some plans and I found out that I need to learn how to program and code for this.

[sudden quartz]

And that code involves python? you would probably do better on a web dev server, although most people here could help you to some extent on web development

[desert jackal]

oh was that it?

Also what does python actually do? I have been here twice, but I never actually understood what python is or what its used for. I have only ever heard of snakes lol. Can you explain to me what it is and its purpose?

[sudden quartz]

You should also explain your goals, but python is a flexible programming language that can be use to write computer scripts and used for computer program development. You could possibly use it for web app dev but im not experienced with python's flexibility or web development. Anyone can start webdev, you want to look first at HTML.

[desert jackal]

I wanted to learn programming and coding for my website and creating and app that can help me and others learn all math. I also may want to learn some for mechatronics since someone told me that I may want to check into Mechatronics. I also heard that learning to program and code is a useful skill all around. I basically have three goals. 1 for my website 2 for my app 3 for mechatronics and having it as a skill

[gritty rivet]

You could build a simple website just by learning HTML, but you'll probably also need CSS to make it look nice and JavaScript to make it interactive. You could also eventually make mobile apps with JavaScript if you learn it well

Python is a little easier to learn then JavaScript but it's going to be very text-oriented. It's not really going to help you build mobile apps or websites very easily.

The Coding Den and other servers might be better for you unless you have questions about Python. Also this is the career channel, so if you do have more Python questions, check out #python-discussion

People do use Python for web backends, there is a #web-development channel about that

[dusky scaffold]

hey guys. I wanted to start DSA but I'm confused which language to choose.
Should I opt for JAVA or Python?
what's is the better scope in this two language?

[sudden quartz]

IF you mean data structures and algorithms, the programming language itself means nothing. You can go pseudocode to study them. Python would technically be insignificantly slower in competitive programming competitions I guess.

[summer roost]

Either language will work fine. The biggest challenge of learning it in Python will be that it feels a bit pointless, since you will be making worse clones of stuff that's already in the standard library, but as long as your remember that you're doing that to learn how those things work internally, you'll be fine

[livid jewel]

Is python even worth learning if it's nothing like all other syntax?

[sudden quartz]

heh.

[summer roost]

It's syntactically similar to some other languages. Nim comes to mind. But beyond that, programmers learn to see past the syntax pretty quickly. That's like judging a car by the color is painted. Python is a good first language to learn, but most real world jobs need you to know multiple languages, so you'll almost certainly need to know others. Learning Python first will help you learn other languages, since the way that it functions is quite similar to lots of other mainstream languages.

[peak halo]

to add to what godly said: different programming languages have different design considerations. one of the main considerations in python is gradual disclosure of complexity: you can use the language and do pretty much whatever you want without knowing about the vast majority of its features, but all those features are available when you're ready to learn them.

[lucid vapor]

Also, Python-like syntax is actually pretty common if you look past the whitespace sensitivity.

[peak halo]

and learning a specific syntax isn't super important. the core skills that a programmer needs to have include learning how to formalize their ideas, identify edge cases, and intuitively decompose the problem. these considerations are largely language-agnostic.

[still condor]

Yeah, Python is just Algol/C/Java/etc. without the braces.

[grizzled sail]

Hey everyone, I have a very ridiculous and common question: I'm trying to understand how far I could possibly be from getting an entry developer job.
To be honest, until this weekend I did not think I could.
Last year I did "Intro to Computer Science with Python" from MIT on EDX, then "CS50" from Harvard on MIT. I got a general understanding of computer science in the macro sense.

This weekend I started building a bot on Selenium and I am incredibly happy and kinda surprised of how well ti works, and the amount of challanges I was able to overcome.

The weirdest thing is the addiction. I can't stop coding. I can't stop fixing bugs and once they are fixed, I cannot stop adding improvements and new features, which cause bugs, which I want to fix and the cycle continues.

I honestly can't say that I felt like this for any other work activity in 30 years. Sure I enjoy making a compelling pitch deck, I enjoy sales, marketing strategy etc, but this is on another level. Once it's done, and it works, it's something that came out of your brain and fingers. And does things in the real world. It's an unbelievable feeling.

I think I might enjoy doing this as a full time thing. But to be honest I imagine I am miles away from getting an offer.

I am for sure adding this bot to my CV, but what level of sophistication do you need in your portfolio for companies to start considering you?

I know some interviews have whiteboard questions, so maybe my "google everything or ask on Discord" approach won't fly in a work environment?

It's possible this bot looks super cool, but is actually very simple in terms of coding complexity and hence won't impress a recruiter.

[gritty rivet]

There are jobs out there that you are probably already qualified for, but those true entry level jobs can be a struggle to find. It's not too early to look for and apply to jobs while you continue to improve your portfolio and resune

Expect most companies you apply to to ignore you or reject you and don't be discouraged by it. Sooner or later you'll at least get an interview and that experience helps you further refine your effort

[summer roost]

What work experience do you have, outside of software?

[pseudo bone]

how do you guys make sure that you dont forget a certain solution you found out after hours of search.sometimes it takes me hours to solve a small problem trying to find it on internet and i dnt know if ill remember it next time i use it

[sudden quartz]

Document every issue you face if its not easy to either remember or find again with your research

[frosty sail]

You forget it after the first time you look it up, but by around the tenth time it sticks

[pseudo bone]

i am a graduate and i feel stupid googling one line codes for python

just to avoid using loops

i dont know what i am doing wrong or how to make my searches mor effiecient

[pure raft]

@grizzled sail I’m right in your boat buddy, I’m looking into school because the wise folks here state if you want that higher level job, you gotta get an entry level, and to get an entry level, you pretty much have to have a degree. But best of luck otherwise bro

[obtuse ridge]

Hey you folks know where I can get some certifications for free or cheap? I just got Comptia ITF+ but I'm lacking compared to people with college degrees or more specialized certifications and I can't afford to shell out half a grand or more to get these other certifications I'm looking at

[signal hemlock]

hey @obtuse ridge there are many places to get certified (like Free code camp if you are into web dev) but im curious if you had experience where you were told that you are lacking certifications. In my experience, I was asked a lot about personal projects on github and stuff and not about college as much, so you can build up a portfolio to showcase your skills, they are more valid than certificates. best of luck!

[obtuse ridge]

i've had call backs from a few jobs now asking if I had a specific degree and when I said that I didn't have the degree, they cut off the interview then and there

[narrow kettle]

It is, you can build a lot of things with it

[void topaz]

Hi,any python developer here?

[near ocean]

surely some of the 300k members in the server are professional python devs
do you have a question?

[vapid jay]

What a python devs does during his job?

[near ocean]

write code, meet with clients, their managers, communicate with any team they work with
thats a general question, do you have a more specific/targeted question?

[vapid jay]

Like I'm cs major and all I do is maths and when I do coding it's all about maths and stuff

Is this normal?

[gritty rivet]

If you can get a job, any decent company will reimburse you for further certs. I did the A+ myself but never paid for another cert myself after that. Any certificate worth more than toilet paper costs a few hundred at least

[gritty rivet]

Yes, normal as a student... but most Python devs don't do math all day if that's your question

[vapid jay]

If I learn only python is it sufficient for Python dev?

[gritty rivet]

Certs are not comparable to a degree, and certs are irrelevant if you're trying to be a developer. If you can't get a degree but want to be a developer (as opposed to doing IT support where certs do matter) , build a strong portfolio and keep trying

[gritty rivet]

Barely, if you're lucky. Python+SQL can take you pretty far in data engineering, or Python+JS for backend web

[vapid jay]

Like next year I'll be learning c++

[near ocean]

why would you only learn the bare minimum

[vapid jay]

Then the 3rd year java

[vapid jay]

Like if I'm gonna code python why should I learn for example C++?

[near ocean]

because in the real world youre not going to only code python
only knowing one technology puts you at a disadvantage

[vapid jay]

I see ,ty for the info

[wanton siren]

I'm looking for a little advice on moving to a developer role. I am currently a network engineer with CCNP, AWS solutions architect associate, Sec +, and a bachelors of IT. Would it be worth it to pursue a CS degree to land a full time developer role or would my IT degree and competency be enough to land a role?

[signal hemlock]

Hey, that sounds really rough but it happens, keep applying, any good tech HR knows degrees are not everything. Sometimes companies just get more candidates than they hoped for so they start coming with bs excuses or offers, I had many occasions where i was offered less than 60-70% of the listed pay, when I asked them about it they just said the full payment is for those with masters degree, such companies arent worth your time either. It's a numbers game just have to get your foot in the door.

[peak halo]

That's sloppy recruiting on their part as well. If it's clear on your resume what degrees you do or do not have, and the absence of a degree is immediately disqualifying, they shouldn't be wasting your time.

[peak halo]

Please always ask your actual question

[grizzled sail]

3 years project manager/account manager in advertising and a 2 in a useless customer support role. Plus one in sales

[grizzled sail]

Thank you!

My dream job was Product Manager and I’ve been trying to get there for a while but I might just kill that idea for now, get a couple years of experience as a developer and maybe all these things will gel well to be a PM

[grizzled sail]

The reason being that PM seemed like the best job for me to then eventually found a company myself which would be my further goal. I mean in terms of experience. Figuring out the vision of the product. Finding product market fit etc. But I always assumed I’d be outsourcing the code to a technical cofounder. I still do, to be honest I don’t imagine myself coding something from scratch… and yet I did for this stupid bot

[gritty rivet]

Depending on your goals, probably not worth a second degree unless it's going to be an MS. Just build out a good portfolio and you'll do pretty well

[gritty rivet]

I could be wrong but if you want to be a PM rather than a dev, I don't think need serious dev experience

Given that you have other relevant experience, having a coding portfolio is a plus. But if dev is not what you want to do, I wouldn't invest a ton of effort in dev skills

And if your goal is to be a co-founder, it's quite normal to have a pair where one is stronger on business the other is stronger on tech

[grizzled sail]

yeah I agree

but I do like coding and would love to be able to code MVPs on my own. also it seems a lot of the PM roles are technical, so I need to be at least at a jr dev level to offer myself. I think

what do you think I need to get a junior dev job? javascript right? React?

[gritty rivet]

If you want to do full stack web work, yes.

There are some (not many) entry level backend jobs where Python is enough. That's me for example

[true drift]

can data analyst be a remote career?

[frosty sail]

Yes.

[gritty rivet]

From where? In any case, the less flexible you are the more difficult it will be but there are more remote opportunities then ever. The best way to understand the opportunities and challenges is to search for job openings

[gleaming lion]

I want to be a Google/Microsoft software developer

please suggest my career after class 10th

[peak halo]

where are you located, generally?

[gleaming lion]

India

[peak halo]

are there Google and Microsoft offices in India?

[gleaming lion]

Yes of course there are

But i wanna talk about which streams and subjects should i take after 10,12 college and other degrees

[frosty sail]

most likely to succeed path: 1) get into a highly-ranked university for a CS degree 2) do some internships at high-reputation companies 3) apply to big fancy microsoft job

[gleaming lion]

Thanks

can you refer me some great subjects i can take after 10th

[peak halo]

I'm not sure how academics work in India. Though I would add that even though working for a high-profile company sounds appealing, that doesn't guarantee that you'd work on projects you enjoy, or that you'd have an ideal work-life balance, etc.

[frosty sail]

take classes that whatever colleges you're applying look for. advanced math classes, probably. Ask friends/adults who are familiar with colleges you are applying to

[gleaming lion]

Ok thanks for the advice

[true drift]

true, thanks

[delicate bane]

i dont think so at least according to this podcast done by this guy who overlooks other PMs. i think you should go for PM roles and leverage your sales/marketing/strategy background since theres usually dif types of PMs. yes there are "technical PMs" that come from a dev background and can help pick up the slack on that side but there are also your marketing folks that can help with the customer and growth side too

take a look if youre interested or skeptical https://open.spotify.com/episode/5uvveNjMREOHjrxz9cEisg

you can transition to more of the technical PM roles afterwards, i believe thats a good way to pivot. but in the end, the choice is yours if you like pure dev or not

[silent mountain]

Most internships I see require enrollment full-time in a bachelors program. Are companies typically flexible with this requirement? For example, could less than part-time with a portfolio and work experience (in IT) be enough to be accepted into an internship? Obviously, the FT bachelors candidates would be more competitive, but would I stand a chance at all of even getting an interview?

[near ocean]

That sounds like what you should be going for are entry level or junior positions really,not internships

Internships are usually for students to build up a portfolio and work experience, if you have that already go find an actual job

[silent mountain]

If a junior role requires one to be a student, is that still technically an internship? I'm assuming it mostly depends on the company.

[summer roost]

In my experience, internships are for students and are limited in time by nature, all parties agree to 2 or 3 or 6 months up front.
Junior developer roles are full time positions that are not time limited and that are typically filled by new graduates or people early in their career.

[silent mountain]

Thank you

[simple zealot]

Hi, Guys I have one question I don't have any IT job experience but i want to get into IT Jobs .Now Days i'm learning with python and django side by side ? I want to know how much knowledge should to get a job ?

I'm always excited to know about how actual work will done in development?

[gritty rivet]

It's impossible to quantify. If you've completed an original Django project it's not too soon to apply for jobs. Looking for and applying to jobs is the only way to find out if you're ready. You probably won't feel ready, even when you get an offer :)

It's worth checking out the backend and Python paths on roadmap.sh, but use that to set long-term goals. It's not a checklist of things you need to master to get hired

[simple zealot]

Thank you !!

[simple zealot]

sure i will check it!

[orchid brook]

Hey guys

I have some questions, I’m a freshman in compE and i got a summer internship that pays $18

Should i go with it or spend the summer on personal projects/coursework

[peak halo]

Go with the internship. Those will look good when you go to get a first job after graduating.

There's also a possibility that they'll invite you back for subsequent internships, or offer you a full-time position after you graduate. I never did an internship, but there are some people in my company who entered this way.

[orchid brook]

They have said something like that, I’m just a freshman with so little experience but they said i can work for future summers as I learn and it’ll be mutually beneficial

[peak halo]

I don't know the specifics of that company, but I think STEM internships usually are. They're paid, which is money for you, but it also means that the company has to make sure you're doing something worthwhile, or they're throwing their own money away.

every so often, my department manager sends out an email asking if anyone has a good project to turn into an internship. specifically those that have a well-defined scope, so that the intern can figure out what to do and can say definitively what it was that they did when it's over.

[polar basin]

Internships/apprenticeships are good as they give you a practical, business-oriented insight into the skills you're learning. So they are usually well-regarded by interviewers/hirers when you're looking for a new job :)

[ivory sluice]

@topaz scaffold hello, this channel is for career discussions related to python. please respect the channel topics

[atomic falcon]

hello! I need some advice and guidance. I just switched my degree from mechanical engineering to software engineering. I will be starting introductory programming courses, but I was told to get familiar with stuff like python beforehand. I have never done this before, where should I begin?

[peak halo]

I pre-filtered our resources page to ones that might suit your circumstance: https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/?topics=general&type=book%2Ccourse%2Cinteractive%2Cvideo%2Ctutorial%2Cproject-ideas&difficulty=beginner

[atomic falcon]

thank you!!

[storm raft]

after 10th: physics, chemistry, maths, computer science if available
college: get into the best college you can get and do well, at a college with good campus placements
college streams - Computer Science, Information Technology, Electronics and Communications (microsoft and google don't hire from other branches i think)
this is India specific ^^

wherever you are:

• learn how to study well on your own, irrespective of the teacher and how to manage your time
• take care of yourself physically and mentally - exercise and have some fun - don't study all the time
• communication skills and social skills and working in a team are very important for any job or job interviews
• learn how to identify new opportunities and take advantage of them timely - by talking to your teachers and classmates and seniors

loads of free material online to study whatever you want -
edx, coursera, MIT ocw, khan academy, openstax.org

colleges in india where Microsoft and Google come for campus placements - IITs, top NITs, IIITs, DCE, BITS etc OR a good private college and do well there (private colleges are more expensive)

resources on how to study -
https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn
https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2019/04/24/working-memory/
https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2019/02/15/memory/
https://calnewport.com/books How to Win at College: Surprising Secrets for Success from the Country’s Top Students

[brave mica]

bing

[quiet veldt]

hello, im about to start my university and i wanted to ask if an associate degree is enough to land me a job in most of computer field such as software engineering

associate degree in science math and computer science

[near ocean]

are you going for an associate degree and not a bachelor?

[quiet veldt]

yes because the university i was transferring to didnt have a bachelor

[dense mesa]

Did you use MATLAB in mechanical at all? See if you can do the MATLAB onramp course, it will make Python a lot easier

[near ocean]

an associate degree is basically no degree, you should try and transfer to a school that offers a BSc

[dense mesa]

I've heard in the US it can be worth a decent amount, but it definitely seems better to get the full thing if possible

[near ocean]

sigh <@&831776746206265384>

[vapid jay]

need help pls python close immediately when I run the script

[near ocean]

#python-discussion and dont double-click your py file

[vapid jay]

ok bro thanks

[analog sun]

Hello, this channel is for discussing careers. Please also follow our rule 4 and use English to the best of your abilities

[gritty rivet]

@quiet veldt Yes, in the US I can say that an AS is better than no degree at all but still not very good for a career in software engineering. However, it's not uncommon to complete an AS before transferring to complete a BS somewhere else. This can slow you down if you don't plan carefully (might need to take more than 4 years total depending on how your transfer credits count) but it's not a bad hack if money is too tight for you to go to a 4 year school from the start. And internationally I know a lot of people who did 2 years in their home country and then 2 years in the US to complete a 4 year degree here.

[atomic falcon]

i did do matlab, ill give that onramp course a look

[dense mesa]

Not to catch flak from people but Python is basically MATLAB with less "hand-holding" from the tool

A lot of stuff is very similar, MATLAB just makes implementation way easier (at potential cost of speed/performance)

[frosty sail]

watchout, hot take coming through

[atomic falcon]

I started going through that beginner python stuff someone dropped in here last night for me and realized it was just like matlab, sadly it was one of those classes that people did not learn too much in.

[dense mesa]

Yeah I get you, the onramp course will be good in that case

[digital aurora]

hi

[worldly fern]

anybody a matlab pro

[peak halo]

while there's no shame in experiencing mental health issues, these are things that we are not qualified to help you with, and it's important that no one do or say anything that could inadvertently make it worse. You should probably seek out what mental health resources are available to your locally.

[haughty grove]

i want to switch career to IT and looking to get into helpdesk for now, i just wanna know who i am helping? is it random people or people that work at that company? and is it a difficult job? what to expect and can i get promoted to something more serious or will i be stuck at that job

[near ocean]

Why do you want to get into helpdesk work? In my friends' experience its been a terrible, boring, bland role

[haughty grove]

well i have seen a lot of people say its good to start idk

[near ocean]

A good start for what? Getting into software dev? I wouldnt say so

[pseudo bone]

could someone guide me to a good resource that would help me design an efficient cv that stands out and help me present my skills best way possible

would you say having a personal website help you stand out?

[smoky quest]

What's your end goal?

[peak halo]

if you're applying for web development positions, it probably would. otherwise, I doubt it.

[peak halo]

if you want to anonymize your resume and post it here, people can give their opinions.

[ancient star]

Peeps, if my employment history has a gap due to me staying at home as a stay at home parent, should I list that on my resume, or should I leave the gap? I have no really notable projects that I could list instead. .-.

Homemaker, Lewiston, ID — Stay at Home Dad
MARCH 2021 – PRESENT
Stay at home parent to 4 children. “Duties” include schedule management, constant supervision, cleaning up after children, and educating children.

This isn't a "technical resume" by any means, it lists retail and military experience for the most part. And current education.

[peak halo]

I would probably just have "Stay-at-home parent March 2021 - Present" after all the positions. employers know what that entails.

and if you don't list any other details, they'll probably assume that you had to do it because of COVID

[ancient star]

Thank you. I only put that short description in there to fit my resume format. Each job/project has a short description like that.

[peak halo]

I would have it as a sentence unto itself, probably in italic, since the point is just to account for employment gaps.

also, a lot of the positions I applied to last spring had open-answer sections on the application to account for employment gaps.

[ancient star]

Cheers. I suppose if they have questions about what it entails (oh my lord, the endless needs of children) I can answer in interviews haha.

[peak halo]

right. parenting is incredibly important, but likely not relevant to the positions you're applying to.

[smoky quest]

Most people will understand. I wouldn't worry too much about it

[ancient star]

Yeah, I interviewed with a company and explained my employment gaps in person, but the hiring manager requested a resume that explains it also. That's the only reason I'm giving it so much thought lol.

Thank you guys. I think I'm just nitpicking. And no, the parenting stuff really isn't relevant to any jobs I'm applying for.

[smoky quest]

The main thing that could scare people off are resumes which try to conceal they could not find a job. But in your case, by getting in front of it, you avoid that altogether

[peak halo]

or if you were fired from a job at cause 😛

[delicate bane]

yeah ive seen something similar on peoples linkedin

[ancient star]

I submitted my resume without the explanation to one employer and got back a simple email that said "You seem to be missing a year."

Hah, never fired fortunately.

[smoky quest]

That's a pretty rude way to express themselves, but yeah, that's them trying to clear up every flags (gaps, changing jobs too quickly and many times...)

[ancient star]

It was pretty rude lmao. It definitely caught me off-guard considering they followed it up with asking me to come in anyway.

[smoky quest]

having a gap year is not a problem in itself as long as there is a reasonable explanation. The candidates are humans and everyone has a story

[delicate bane]

it was phrased more professionally tho like "Maternity/Paternity Leave"

[ancient star]

I also live in a small town, so everyone knows everyone, and if they don't recognize your name they hesitate. Unfortunately employers are the same way. And I wasn't born and raised here, so there's that 'stigma' too.

But that's another issue lol. Thanks for your input y'all.

[grand quartz]

has anyone done a hackerrank live coding interview before?

[smoky quest]

that's pretty common

[grand quartz]

oh, ive never done that before. Do you have any tips? I really dont know what to expect in terms of difficulty as it is a graduate role

[smoky quest]

The main tip is to practice beforehand on leetcode / hackerrank.
You can expect mostly easy/medium and once in a while a hard one

The hard ones will typically limit themselves to basic DP.

You should also not expect any trick question, ie. the type of question where either you know the trick or you don't

[peak halo]

someone used "maternity/paternity leave" to refer to a break in employment to be a full-time parent? because I've only heard that term used to refer to a long period of paid time off following the birth/adoption of a child.

[delicate bane]

no, they referred to the latter but i still thought it was professionally done

[pseudo niche]

Hello guys, I have a few questions for whose have time. I have a bsc degree at mechatronics engineering. I always love software/hardware, I have coding background from my university. I tried to expand my portfolio before apply jobs.
Programs I made: -Barcode System, Market Sales Automation(L: C#, sql: mysql)
-Bloggers website by categories,oauth etc.(L: Python, web framework: Django)
-Face recognition search engine, website(L:Python, web framework:Django, Packages:Face_recognition,sci-kit learn)
-Face detection(L:Python, Packages: opencv,tensorflow,mtcnn)
-Web automation, Amazon stock quantities checker bot(L:Python, Packages: Selenium,webdriver-manager,pandas)
-Web scraper, NY Times News Catcher by Categories(L:Python, Packages: Scrapy)
-Twitter bot, search for speficic keywords(L:Python, Packages:Tweepy)

Sorry if it is too long, but here my questions are:

1. How I will know I am at which level? Are these enough to apply for jobs? How do you decide you are which level?
2. Now, when I open someone's code I understand them mostly. But when it comes to code problems(coderbyte,codingame), I am struggling to solve them. Should I practice more about coding problems? Or should I do more programs to impress companies? or both?

I will be appreciate for your reply, Thanks.

[low swan]

@pseudo niche 1) I think the level is based on the impact you can do in your current company. Usually, entry level requires a lot of help from the teammates, mid-level can do a lot of stuffs alone, but not greater things. And seniors can handle entire projects alone (or at least know about the project end to end).

And more important thing: Seniors should be able to bring the entire team to higher level, improving both hard and soft-skills.

[pure raft]

Any NYU alum here? Wanted to double check my confidence about my application etc if that’s okay. Looking at Tandon only

[low swan]

@pseudo niche 2) It depends on the kind of company you are looking for. If you are looking for a job at a big tech, you should really get into these codesginal/leetcode/codewars, to imrpove you hability to deal with these kind of problems and knows a lot about algos.
But if you are looking for a job in a small startup, I think it's better for you to improve you capacity to release software. Make real things and release it.

[pseudo niche]

@low swan Great answers. Thanks for your reply and time.

[vapid jay]

whats the difference between a software enginner and a software developer?

[smoky quest]

software engineer is more broad than software developer. But in practice, they are often pretty much interchangeable.
In some countries, software engineer is a protected term that only specific schools can deliver under a specific education

[vapid jay]

ic

[low swan]

software engineer is a protected term that only specific schools can deliver under a specific education

Yes. My country have this constraints in the name of the position.
But, software engineer, software developer, developer, programmer are the same thing here.

[peak halo]

I suppose one could argue that "software engineer" emphasizes ones ability to create and maintain large production systems, and would probably come with a greater expectation that you're familiar with version control, code reviews, Agile, and other things I haven't thought of.

[sudden quartz]

They have significant enough different connotations tbh. Software Developer is dealing with applications. Software Engineer emphasizes ability to both design from nothing and complete via linking software services together, etc. Its complex. Otherwise if youre just throwing around the term programmer like its correct, you just dont have any care to properly communicate within the field

"Everyone can program" but not "Everyone can make a complex software system"

[clear loom]

Personally, I wouldn't put it, feels personal rather than work related/recruiter friendly.
Maybe "freelancer" might be a better term? If they inquire about it then you can just say what you described 👀

[ancient star]

I have it listed solely on the resume supplied to the companies who asked for the gap. Otherwise, it's not there and I'm leaving the gap.

[charred bane]

I got a data engineer job and I feel out of place i sign on through a recruiter for a junior but it doesn’t feel junior at all, anyways I’m working on this etl script and could use help

[peak halo]

what is etl? also, keep in mind that this is a discussion channel, not a help channel.

[solar quest]

I'm still quite new to computer science, I've only really started to have a grasp on higher order functions and only have started to learn about algorithms and time complexities, but I was thinking about going into data science as a career - any pointers I should look out for?

[peak halo]

are these topics you're learning in a university curriculum? (ie are you a CS student?) or are you learning on your own?

@ruby ingot we don't allow people to recruit for business projects here.

[solar quest]

no, I'm just purely learning on my own, I'm just a sophmore in highschool

but I do plan to major in CS

[peak halo]

what math courses can you take in the next two years?

[solar quest]

AP Calc BC and AP Stats

[peak halo]

what is BC

[solar quest]

it means that I'll be taking the first semester course and second semester, Calc AB means just the first semester iirc

[peak halo]

I see. I would emphasize doing well in those courses. At least in the US, ones grades in math courses are usually a key consideration that admissions counselors look at for CS. But those two subjects are also ones that will make it easier to grasp the data science-specific concepts.

And it will free you up to take more math courses during your undergrad, line linear algebra, discrete math, and graph theory.

[solar quest]

Ah, I see, thanks, I was planning on those two courses. Anything I should look into right now to kind of prepare me in the more basic concepts of data science?

[ruby ingot]

It's not a business project. If anyone wants to work on any project.

[peak halo]

doing well in STEM courses is probably the best thing you can do to set yourself up for success at the moment, so beyond that, it's a matter of how you want to spend your free time. Your time might be better spent just playing with programming in general, since that's less cognitively expensive than reading data science books.

[solar quest]

alright, good to know, thanks again

[peak halo]

You might also ask in #data-science-and-ml later to get another opinion. I'm just this guy, you know?

[solar quest]

ah, right, I'll check that out

[vapid jay]

What does this mean? Is this pretty much an offer?

[peak halo]

What do they mean by "receipt of a completed application" and "offer approval"?

[vapid jay]

Receipt only applies if you applied through a recruiter

[smoky quest]

sounds like they are preparing an offer

[vapid jay]

And offer approval means that I agreed to it i believe

[lethal quail]

which company?

[vapid jay]

I dont wanna say openly but i can dm you. Sorry i have a stalker so i am trying to keep things lowkey. 😄

[smoky quest]

correct. They will send you the offer letter with the details

[lethal quail]

feel free to dm

[vapid jay]

Makes sense. I hope i can negotiate a good salary. Been job hunting for a 7 months now.

[peak halo]

My read of it is that they've decided definitively that they want to hire you, but giving you a formal offer letter involves deciding on all the compensation details (like salary) and getting that signed by an executive, and they haven't done that part yet. Though I've never been involved in the hiring process of any company.

[vapid jay]

Right that makes sense

[smoky quest]

Typically, they would test the waters with a phone call though

[vapid jay]

Like an meeting with salary?

So you can freely negotiate?

[smoky quest]

Yeah. Like giving you a phone call to tell you they want to move forward and they would be offering X,Y and Z and asking for your reaction.

[keen wyvern]

Some highlights, might help clarify a few things -

Thank you for interviewing ...
We are very pleased in moving you forward in the hiring process ... and are in the process of finalizing offer details ...

Please note that completing the hiring process is contingent upon a number of factors, including...

[Closing statement] A member of ... will reach out to you with the next steps ...

We are extremely excited at the prospect of you joining the team. [Seems like they really want to hire you ^_^]

[lethal quail]

this is very much "we want to hire you, there are some formalities to go through before though"

[vapid jay]

Thanks all

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. This is #career-advice
You should look at #❓｜how-to-get-help to increase your odds of getting help

[umbral leaf]

Hey, I started learning Python (it is my first programming language as well) and I want to develop games (2d/3d). I started learning Python because its is great for beginners. But I know that the usecases of Phyton di not fit with my goal, not? So..do I need to go in the usecases of Python (DataSience and automatic Algorithm) in depth or should I just use Python as my entry to coding. And If Yes, are there any other languages I should cover before moving on too C++ or what should I do?

[smoky quest]

Is it asked in the context of a career?

[umbral leaf]

No, i want to learn coding privat for my self. Im a student but want to be a programmer later on

[smoky quest]

Then it's best to check #❓｜how-to-get-help .
This channel is named #career-advice and is dedicated to discussions about careers

IF it was in term of career, then python is a great starting language and worth learning

[solemn garden]

I’m hoping to build a career with Python, but my portfolio is looking kinda empty right now. What are some interesting projects I could add that really showcase my skills?

[gilded valley]

A full stack web app that relates to some hobby or personal interest of yours

[solemn garden]

like a flask app with an sql database?

[hoary sparrow]

i want to develop deep learning artificial intelligence chatbots, should i use tensorflow with react?

or if you know something else, or you develop chatbots in something else, please let me know i would like to know that too

[gilded valley]

Yes. Flask or Django or fastapi

[balmy moat]

Who could help me on some data code ?? Thanks

[frosty sail]

Depending on what the problem is, ask in #data-science-and-ml, #databases , or #algos-and-data-structs

[native narwhal]

hello everyone

anyone working as a python developer

that can tell me if its better to use Windows machine or MacBook m1 for work

[frosty sail]

You’ll take what your company gives you most likely

Many people prefer one OS over the other but I don’t think there’s any real difference in productivity.

[native narwhal]

okay, how long have u been working as a py dev 😄

[frosty sail]

What is this, some guerrilla M1 Mac advertising survey

[native narwhal]

yeah right ;p

[near ocean]

Os doesnt matter and you can always use WSL if you need something windows doesn't have

[frosty sail]

The first programming language you learn will probably the the hardest. Most modern programming languages share a lot of fundamental concepts and assumptions, even if the syntax can be pretty different.

[sand patio]

You'll definitely find it to be easier, since you'll have already learned a fair bit of core programming functionality with python, and those concepts can carry over

[oblique turtle]

does anyone have beginners totourial for python?\

[chrome cedar]

So I got a question about dev work and legal stuff
My company is letting me work on a big automation project, and I would like to reuse that work for personal projects outside of work
I know the law in the US is that any work you do on company time is supposed to belong to the company, but if I was using company time to contribute to an open-source project that the company is using then it's typically considered OK
But is there a legal issue if I personally own/maintain the open-source project(s) in question?
And these repos won't contain anything that could expose company secrets or internal stuff

[summer roost]

That sounds like a question for a lawyer, if you want to be sure you're safe. You might need the company to sign a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement agreeing to allow the code they've contributed to be relicensed in the future, or things like that.

[graceful mason]

First read over your contract for anything relating to IP
Depending on where you live and what your contract says they may be able to claim ownership of anything you came up with during work hours - if this is something you work on entirely outside of work they don't have ownership.
You would need their express permission to work on something that they don't own during work hours

[pseudo niche]

https://www.freecodecamp.org has good videos on youtube from different people. Also for book I can suggest you Learn Python the Hard Way for Python 3.

[oblique turtle]

alr

[keen pasture]

yeah

[ancient star]

https://www.programiz.com/python-programming is another great one. I referenced Programiz a lot during my Python class.

[ancient star]

Here's one that probably gets asked a lot: Without directing me to Roadmap (!!!), is there a language that employers seem to favor these days? I have a grasp of the fundamentals of Python and am torn between continuing to focus solely on it, or to pick up the fundamentals of another language while I continue to learn more advanced Python topics.

Eventual requirements for my degree are a C++ class and an Advanced C++ class right after, so I'm leaning towards that... The problem is whenever I look up jobs on Indeed I see Java everywhere. >_>

[peak halo]

@ancient star if you learn C++, Java probably won't be that difficult to pick up after that. But there's no one language to rule them all in industry, no.

I'm new to the world of professional programming, but my understanding is that Java was the go-to general-purpose language for a long time and that this is becoming less true over time as more languages crop up that cater to more specific use cases.

But that doesn't mean existing java code bases are going away

[ancient star]

That makes sense to me, lol. Thanks for your input. 🙂

It'd probably benefit to understand both at some point in time, just so I can understand those existing Java code bases you speak of lol. But for the sakes of not overloading my mind I think I'll stick with Python and C++. I mean, my degree also makes JavaScript a required course.. So maybe I'm just thinking too much into it.

[delicate bane]

this may or may not help you https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

keep in mind dif languages have dif prominence in dif jobs

[ancient star]

That is pretty interesting. 😮

[chrome cedar]

Pretty much, if you learn C / C++ you can learn most other object-oriented languages
Java, C#, Python, Golang, Dart, Rust, etc.
And if you end up with higher-level languages, you also get an appreciation for higher-level languages that abstract memory management & data typing

[graceful mason]

C isn't object-oriented

[chrome cedar]

My bad, my brain defaults to writing C / C++ cause most people that I know who write in one often write in the other as well

[summer roost]

seems like, if you're going to have a class teach you C++, there's no sense learning it on your own. Your time would be better spent learning a different language. I'd try picking up C# or Java or Rust.

Or something weird like Haskell.

[smoky quest]

Then you have the answer to your question?
Look at the demands on the market and that's the most favorable thing for that segment of the market

To keep in mind that a language is just a tool and that it's quite common for engineers to deal with multiple languages in the same job. And that different segments of the market will use different tools and languages.

[ancient star]

Thank you all lol. I'm mixed between C++ and Java, so I think my answer is "why not both" because I'll have the structure of that class so help me.

I also have a mild interest in learning Android development later on (just to see if I enjoy it or not) so that might be a consideration.

[summer roost]

yeah. self-teaching C++ before the C++ class would be a strategy to maximize your grades, but self-teaching a language not taught by your school would be a strategy to maximize your learning.