career-advice

[kind oar]

or they might have the capacity for many people, if it is a big company and especially big city/remote then they always need fresh bodies

I think most entry level people nowadays spend less than two years in their first jobs, so the recruiters might be just building bench.

good luck G

[graceful mason]

Less of a loan more of a tax

[summer roost]

You sure it's only one job? Could be they leave the ad up because they're willing to keep hiring more people with that skill set

[terse plank]

Hi, I've recently completed my Python course and have a degree...

Where can I find a job for me ??

[vapid jay]

indeed.com

I'm getting quite a lot of interviews from that site

[vapid jay]

What kind of work with python do you want to do @terse plank ?

[terse plank]

@vapid jay A Data Scientist...

[vapid jay]

Such as?

[terse plank]

@vapid jay idk I' am confused

[vapid jay]

Ok. Do you want to be a data scientist at a Garbage Collection company using Python to track Recycling
Do you want to work at NASA?

Perhaps the KGB

etc, and on.

[kind oar]

what's a degree? also judging from your name, you're indian so indeed might not work for you.
but you should try linkedin.

and it is quite hard to find an actual data scientist job after a course, should probably aim at data analyst ones.

[terse plank]

@kind oar Yeah, There is a lack of python jobs in India.. That's why I' am worried about my career...

[kind oar]

what's your degree?

[vapid jay]

A lack @terse plank ?

Surely ye jest. There are a ton of jobs in India. I know of three locations off the top of my head currently hiring.

[amber jungle]

can you tell those name? even i m worried about my career i am also python developer.

even blockchain using golang, rust, js

[vapid jay]

You can dm me

[amber jungle]

ok

[honest rivet]

Hello, I am new to this server and I just decided to start learning Python. Any pieces of advice for Python?

[smoky quest]

From a career perspective, focus more on the skills and the roles than python specifically. Engineers would typically have to use multiple languages for their jobs and may even change languages as they change jobs

[honest rivet]

Yea ok but this is the first language i am starting

I heard that its not good to learn multiple languages at the same time

[smoky quest]

your career will extend well beyond what you are starting with

[smoky quest]

That's correct. Adding multiple complex things at once just make it more difficult.
And also it's easier to pick other languages once you learned your first

[honest rivet]

I agree with you, i also want to learn Java but rn i am learning just oython.

Python*

[hallow skiff]

Hi career advisers!
I am in a weird situation.
I got assigned to a task that was known to be heavy. and originally assigned to someone that didn't want to join the team.
meanwhile, I got notified by my manager that he wants me to work on something else after it, and it's kind of urgent.
I tried my best to finish this task to start the new urgent one, but things happened. and things took longer than I and manager thought.
anyway, in todays meeting, we were informed that they are joining that other freelance (or maybe permanent) developer to work on the urgent project.
On one hand, I didn't deliver something, and I guess it's understood by the manager that it's more complicated than we thought at the beginning
On the other hand I was told that I would be working on the new urgent thing, and wasn't notified (and i had a personal meeting 2 days ago with the manager which he could have mentioned).
Except of the fact of feeling "weird" about it, im not sure what i feel about it.
and if i should say something at all.

[smoky quest]

what's your level of experience?

[hallow skiff]

6 years self taught.

currently switching stacks so working with a different language from what i used to

[smoky quest]

so your title like mid-level, almost senior?

[hallow skiff]

i guess. yes. the thing is that they work with iot devices and all the hardware stuff is an extra layer of "new" for me.

never worked with buffers and streams (referring to this specific task i am stuck with)

[smoky quest]

So what I recommend in these cases is that, it doesn't matter what is new or not.
What matters is to set expectations and the least amount of surprises

What you mentioned earlier is more about the late changes in requirements/projects/etc. for which you have no control over

But your manager would need help in understanding the costs of taking route A vs route B.
Most of the time, managers/leaders/etc. are fine with taking longer as long as they are not surprised (and is not like a problem with the engineer themselves)

Concretely, I have had many times my manager coming to me and telling me something along the lines of: "Hey recursive_error, we have this last minute/urgent thing to do". My role would be to let them know what it means to switch now, and if there are any good stopping points or alternate routes

[near ocean]

you should be asking your manager what they want you to work on
if they say you should drop everything and work on project B then do so
if they say you should prioritize project B but not completely ditch project A then do so
if anyone else asks you why youre doing something you should tell them to talk to your manager
(assuming you explained the cost of switching tasks, how long you think the task would take, etc)

[smoky quest]

So while having a lot of last minute changes is not a good sign of leadership, it does happen sometimes

[hallow skiff]

I dont think you understood, no body wanted me to drop the task since it was as much as important as the other one... this wasn;'t an option at all.

no deadlines were mentioned. just "try to do it asap". it's a startup so..

[smoky quest]

so what's the problem here?

[near ocean]

what other people want doesnt really matter, if my manager wants me to handle 5 projects and also do backflips through flaming hoops, that doesnt mean I can or will

you know your own capacity for work, you should explain that you cant handle both tasks concurrently, one will slip, they have to pick which one slips

[hallow skiff]

Yes, ok, tnx.
I think that is wat i had to hear (or read).
I think my problem is more of a personal confidence problem since i work with a different stack (started practicing python in the last year)
And since things aren't really organized, and no due dates were mentioned other than "try to finish it asap to get to the other task asap", i guess it's understandable.

[smoky quest]

Engineers are not and shouldn't be reduced to a specific skill.
You know more than that and are ramping up. The fact you are learning about that new stack is just an implementation details. You aren't at the top of it yet, but that's a solved problem with time. Most manager would look beyond the few months it takes for an engineer to ramp up and see it as an investment

[hallow skiff]

actually i thought i would be able to complete the first task fast, but it had me handling things like streaming data from other hardware which i didn't think was too challanging. I do have some personal projects with ESP32 devices, but it never reached that lvl of complexity

[near ocean]

i also work for a startup and im the only one in a technical role, under the eng director
i have to maintain 3 projects, whenever I get assigned more than one task I always ask which one they want me to prioritise and focus on, mainly cause its in a language im not yet that good at so it takes me longer to dev, read, comprehend

i think a good rule of thumb is, whenever youre making a time estimate for the delivery of a feature/completion of a task, double that estimate

[hallow skiff]

i think this is the best advise ever. I heard it more than once.

[near ocean]

also, if your manager isnt a technical person, its your duty to inform them of the complexities of a task when they assign it to you
i understand this makes it harder to do your job but soft skills are so much more important than people think they are

[hallow skiff]

btw i really like the fact that your manager refers to you by your discord nickname 😆

[honest pivot]

I'm also in a startup and when I try to ask "which of these things should be prioritized" I get fairytales about how I can somehow devote various percentages of my time to each.

[whole fern]

I have a startup idea in my mind. I am currently 13 and so, don't know much about python. I want to create an app and so, in a self-learning course. I therefore, want to make my idea come to reality. I always want to make life easy throught this.

[brittle thorn]

This is True with a Capital T.. I have used Visual Basic, Visual FoxPro, VBscript, Classic ASP, ASP.net, VB.net , C#, SQL, Python, Matlab, R, etc

[brittle thorn]

Yep .. there are patterns you will notice once you have implemented solutions in different tech stacks and languages and if a company is too focused on a specific skill they will miss out on hiring talent. Good companies know that experience is valuable even if it is in a different platform or tech stack

[brittle thorn]

Be transparent and inform your superiors when you need some time to master a specific skill. It is necessary to manage expectations while trying to do your best at the same time. The lack of organization and due dates maybe also because the project still has some uncertainties that makes pinning a due date difficult. At least make sure you keep them updated of your progress and give them no surprises that can delay the project.

[hallow skiff]

Should i say something about it? Or let it go since it's generaly my lack of communication

[brittle thorn]

In general the more you communicate the better

It is the role of the project manager, scrum master, superior to the Devs to remove impediments to fulfilling the tasks

If you dont speak out how can they remove impediments

or if a delay is inevitable manage client expectations...

[honest pivot]

Ah, imagine being shielded from interference by a layer of leadership

[muted kraken]

How can one prepare himself for an online Assessment Centre day, that'll consists of an interview, technical exercise and case study exercise? I have to admit I'm not talkative but when I do explain things, I speak pretty slow lol

[brittle thorn]

In a more mature organization if happens regularly

[brittle thorn]

Lol fairytales arent grounded in reality.. not your fault entirely if something slips... document your time at work spent at various tasks. Things do get complicated if you report to more than one superior and they compete for your time.

[honest pivot]

Nah, it's one superior, the CEO. He's not great at making decisions that involve actual tradeoffs.

[brittle thorn]

Lol

[honest pivot]

I am trying to become the shield that prevents interference and allows people to focus on something long enough to make meaningful progress. He doesn't seem to recognize that this is needed.

[brittle thorn]

It is necessary and I wonder about his background lol.

[honest pivot]

I probably make it sound worse than it is, I'm kind of annoyed today.

But it's like startup growing pains, basically.

[brittle thorn]

Maybe he should hire a PM

[honest pivot]

I would leave if he did that. I'm supposed to transition into a leadership role.

[brittle thorn]

Ah then he should promote you to PM

[honest pivot]

Theoretically. But we are all kind of the original team of engineers, I think he's very hesitant to promote any of us over the others.

So, we go on pretending nobody is the leader when it's effectively me. 😀

[empty tulip]

Hello!
I am an amateur python programmer and I want to start freelancing. If anyone can guide me on how to start and learn the right skill

[dim pagoda]

Guys what is OE Process Engineer un Amazon , is it a support job role???

[rare nymph]

What is the best time to start a startup?

[fringe pine]

What do you mean?

[rare nymph]

I mean should I get a job first or should I start a startup after getting a degree in computer science?

[near ocean]

why do you want to found a startup

[graceful mason]

Do you not have any kind of grooming process? That would have helped you to set a soft deadline and possibly realise that you need to use things that you aren't familiar with beforehand (so would need help or more time)

[ivory sluice]

when you're older and have some experience working as a "regular" employee under your belt.
if you have lots of time, nothing wrong with trying one when you're young (like, say under mid-30s or 40s) but chances are, lack of life experience in general will tend to lead to failure
i'm sure they can be good growth experiences though. question is, can you afford the time and potential losses?

[crude folio]

In your opinion is it fine to respond to a job offer with the equivalent of "give me some time to respond as I have other interviews"?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkyy57iMaB0
Definitely if you plan startup, do it in at least 2-3 years of heavy industrial programming after finishing university.
Then ask yourself this question again 😉 And next time check it in few more years 😆
Let's just say that student right after finishing CS.... knows nothing.

[rustic schooner]

What are the (kind of) things you typically learn only after the degree?

[fringe pine]

Yeah I agree with the others. Work for a bit, ideally at more than one place, before you jump into founding a startup. You need to learn how organisations work.

Although, I'm not really the most qualified to answer that question 😄

Starting a company is a huge investment of time and money, and a huge responsibility.

[smoky quest]

It's less about the specific technical aspects and more about how to organize work, figuring out what to build.
On the technical side, it's building experience and seeing real life systems and practice

[buoyant seal]

I think I learned almost everything after degree.
Btw, in most next points I continue having gaps:

1. How to use git
2. How the fuck to use git in the right way.
3. what are the unit testing, integration testing, acceptance testing or performance testing?
4. how to wield Linux like it is your main PC
5. how the fuck to try writing clean readable code that is self documented and u will be able to read what it is doing few months later.
6. how the fuck to write documentation
7. how the fuck to plan programming projects first instead of blindly jumping to implementation
8. what are the fuck Design Patterns?
9. and what the hell is Domain Driven Design?
10. You know nothing about databases. How to work with transactions and bulk operations?
11. what types of databases exist there at all, and which ones do I need?
12. how the fuck to have security being better than cracked by 5 years old hacker due to super dumb mistakes?
13. everything can be automated. Literally everything, and if u will not do it, u will be drown in repeatable operational actions
14. how the hell do I make a really DRY code, reusable in neat packages again and again, instead reinventing the wheel all the time
15. the list can be continued further...

[vapid jay]

What is the purpose of the degree then?

[smoky quest]

None of the things on Darkwind's list matter if you don't have the theory and foundation behind it

(also depends on the school. Some of their topic was taught in the school I attended, but the main point remains)

[vapid jay]

I'm reading the list, is it possible to know all those things without having some sort of foundation?

[smoky quest]

Not all of it.
You can transmit knowledge, but you can't transmit experience. And some do require you to experience it

[rustic schooner]

Thanks for the insight!

[buoyant seal]

Having a lot of knowledge makes a good jump start to acquire experience faster

[dense mesa]

I took the junior product manager offer

While the salary isn't quite where my other offers were at, my career goal is to be one of the best product people in industry

Money isn't everything, and by starting my own venture I can be responsible for the direction of my career

[buoyant seal]

Degree teached me how to learn.
Initially before that, people are usually slow as turtles self learning something.

Degree teached about wide array of foundation things indeed. Without them I would be having hard time knowing even guessing what I am missing. Foundation gives basic sight where to look further for what u don't know.

Plus there were actually learned things I don't need to learn later.

And I had years during university to break my mind and to accept some programming concepts/philosophies in order to do better. As example... Understanding of need why is version controlling like Git is needed at all, usually comes during university times while u work without it.
Or how to read other person's code

And finished university made me attractive enough being hired as junior. University promises to employer that person is hopefully teachable and fast learning, and has at least minimum competence worthy to be invested into his/her education futher

[vapid jay]

I just finished my first python code ever. How does it look?

print('this is a test!')
import time
time.sleep(1.3)
Name = input('What is your name?:')
print(f"hello, {Name}!")
import time
time.sleep(1.3)
print(f"this is my test realm. Welcome, {Name}!")
import time
time.sleep(1.3)
print("Hmm... I'm bored. I'm going to test out an elseif statement!")
import time
time.sleep(1.3)
right_left = input('do you want to go right or left?')
if right_left == 'right':
    print('cool!')
elif right_left == 'left':
    print('cool!')
import time 
time.sleep(1.3)
wedo = input('well... that was fun. What should we do now?')
print (f'{wedo} that sounds fun, but we dont have time! Gotta go run, seeya!')```

[vapid jay]

I agree with everything your saying, it makes sense.

I do feel that it is possible to learn tons on your own, I don't think that degree should be a bar for entry. I've seen a (very cool) company in my country that hires people that only have an high school degree, because they have shown that they are capable and are fighting despite life's lack of opportunity (some people cannot afford a degree).

[buoyant seal]

Everything is possible
But not everyone is Steve Jobs to drop out of college and still going to success with a high chance.

University makes chances better.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I think that if you can get a degree, you should. Just speaking about those who could not.

[buoyant seal]

Add here also the point of ridiculously high prices to find/ hire a programmer.
Last number I remember, it is estimated worthy of 20'000 euros?

Would have u resisted to simplify hiring process and to filter non degree people?

Considering that the cost for full check of one person doing though technical interviews, can be paralyzing to company for N hours and being ridiculous in summed up time cost / salaries spent per hour of all involved people to check the person

[vapid jay]

There are other measures. Degree is not the only thing that predicts success within a company.

[buoyant seal]

How to measure them?
With higher prediction chance to true positives

[vapid jay]

Like, if I was an employer, and saw some guy with an high school degree, but killer GitHub repos, I would give him a chance.

[buoyant seal]

Point taken

[smoky quest]

The problem is you wouldn't see it

[vapid jay]

There is a ratio of (his code quality)/(time I would have to invest) in him that I would accept.

[honest pivot]

As for how to wield Linux like it is your main PC, just install it as your main PC for a few years 😉

[vapid jay]

But I'm not one to comment too much, I'm not an employer

[honest pivot]

I think it's very hard for someone to have a killer GitHub repo without any professional experience. I looked at a guy's today and it was just embarrassing, like why did you link this on your CV, you could have gotten away with me never knowing about it

[smoky quest]

The typical scenario is that you receive a 100 applications after posting the job ad online.
If you spend 10min per candidate to look at their resume and github repos and code, that's more than 16h straight. That's a lot more time than most people have

On top of that, you have to consider that 99 candidates out of the 100 do have degrees and the experience associated with it. It makes it a lot more difficult for the remaining ones to stand out enough to be worth the time

[honest pivot]

Fortunately I haven't dealt with 100 at one time yet. The max has been about 20. And yeah, those are judged mainly on what their education and experience look like. I didn't look at anyone's GitHubs. I only decided to look at this one guy's because I was interviewing him today and I had a free moment.

[smoky quest]

yeah, I don't look at github in the first pass either. They have to have something interesting to make me click on it

You can't count just on the github projects. You also can't count on the employers to randomly check projects and randomly find interesting things. You have to bring it to them

[lucid vapor]

How much relevance do certifications have on jobs? I have a high school course that requires you finish the PCAP certification content, and I'm wondering if I should take the exam at the end of the course and what benefits (if any) it would provide.

[buoyant seal]

Certifications have no relevance.
Exception could be made to AWS, red hat, Oracle and etc companies that represent high technologies.
Certificates from them look just good

[lucid vapor]

Got it, thanks

[marsh wind]

are you working ay my job? 😂

[honest pivot]

heh

[crude folio]

In your opinion is it fine to respond to a job offer with the equivalent of "give me some time to respond as I have other interviews"?

[vapid jay]

What kinds of stuff would caught your attention? Have you ever interviewed someone, at least in part, because of his projects? What were his projects?

[vagrant mirage]

Folks,
I'm pretty good at python. I use it a lot for my web projects. Even built a complex desktop app with tkinter. But haven't explored data science much. Except pandas. I know pandas well. I wish to use my 13 years of field experience in oil/gas with my new coding skills to maybe bag some DS projects or even a position.
How long would it take to learn other python DS libraries for someone at my skill level? And which ones should I aim for?

[dense mesa]

This is gonna be a vague answer, but if you have that much experience then like a few weeks to a few months? You know yourself that you can learn this stuff, so if you really knuckle down, it shouldn't take long to learn the new tech, do some projects and get a role.

[orchid imp]

This really depends on your skills and experiences.

[spice musk]

It can pay well of course like anything. Although pilot requires a having a lot of funds for training.

How people spend their income, and budget is up to individuals though?

[true harness]

high

[dense mesa]

yes

which country?

[vapid jay]

hello ,i am not sure how to start this conversation or where to put it so i saw this channel,i am a student who started python last june ,next year i will go in high school where they will test me how good my coding skills are (I live in switzerland thats why)and i was wondering how can i get better at coding to pass my school interview and get apprenticeship in a company

thats how my countries edu system works

[dense mesa]

How old are you? The questions you're asking are slightly indicating that you haven't looked into this topic enough to make an informed decision. Programmers are in exceedingly high demand right now, and there's blog posts going back as far as 2011 talking about how hot the tech market is. You seem convinced that programmers don't have the same 'social status' as these other jobs, despite earning a lot anyways

[vast shoal]

I am a Swedish software developer, and salaries are generally high. 30-35k kr might be an entry-level salary in the Stockholm area. 50-60k SEK per month is normal if you have ~5 years work experience experience.

And you would never work more than 40 hours a week.

after a few years u can get up to 4000euros
I earn more than that.

Significantly more.

That's alright. I'm telling you what my salary expectations are, though.

The smaller the city, the less you earn, though.

Salaries are highest in Stockholm.

[balmy mural]

Sweden is one of the countries I'm looking to possibly emigrate to after my postgraduate and getting some work experience locally because of better work conditions than locally, while having a good pay compared to cost of living

[vast shoal]

Yeah, that might be true for the country as a whole, but it's too low for Stockholm.

Please use English on this server.

Stockholm has the highest salaries, but also the highest cost of living. Though it also has the highest concentration of tech companies, so in terms of career development it's probably the best place to be.

[vast shoal]

In terms of raw income you probably earn way more in the US, but labor laws and work culture seem to be more chill here. Less work doing your taxes and such also.

Gothenburg is also nice, but salaries are slightly lower. Totally viable alternative though. There are quite a lot of tech companies there as well.

[balmy mural]

Not interested in the US at all. I have a few European countries, New Zealand, and Australia in mind. It's still at least 4 years out though, so I haven't put massive thought into it yet

[vast shoal]

Australia seems nice too, I have a friend who migrated there and he seems happy.

Definitely go to uni.

Get a kandidatexamen in datavetenskap.

[balmy mural]

I'm from South Africa. A lot of people emigrate to Australia, so culturally that would be a good move for me

[vast shoal]

No, a kandidat is only three years.

You can be done by 21 if you're efficient.

[smoky quest]

tbh, nothing.
I will use github as a confirmation of a way to get some answers with regards to some doubts. But I am not going to browse your github to see if you have skill X.
So most of the information would have to be conveyed in your resume, or at least enough to make me want to check your github that you indeed have X or have the chops for it.

There is also the wild route of working on a specific open source project in the hope of being hired by whatever company is behind it. But that's not frequent

[vast shoal]

I did a civilingenjör but I mainly just messed around for fun the last two years.

Oh, ok, I thought you were in your second year.

Right. Well, you're gonna have to work on your math if you wanna study datavetenskap.

Ok, nice.

I worked as a teaching assistant and research assistant at uni.

If you're a CS student at uni, you might be able to get a part-time job as a dev. I did that as well.

It'll be harder before you start uni. You can work on your programming skills by working on hobby projects or contributing to open source projects though.

Just in general? Learn study technique. Studying at uni is more demanding, you need to put in time and effort if you want to succeed.

You get more freedom, but that doesn't mean you can slack off.

[dense mesa]

Idk what it's like in Sweden, but in the UK most people mess around first year, start getting more disciplined in second, then third year is just pain

[vast shoal]

No, go ahead and socialize and have fun. Just make sure you also put in the time and effort with studying.

[dense mesa]

Really depends on the degree you're doing, I'm studying regular engineering and have limited free time. My friends doing law/history seem to have a lot more

[vast shoal]

I definitely socialized more in the beginning, later in the program a lot of my classmates either dropped out, graduated or studied different things, so there was less opportunity to hang out.

Datavetenskap, generally speaking, but particular universities might call it other things. I think KTH called it datateknik or something weird like that.

Just make sure you don't confuse it with a hardware-focused program.

Mjukvaruutvecklare, mjukvaruingenjör, programmerare, I guess?

You're gonna be writing code, in any case.

[vapid jay]

What channel is good for sending screenshots of errors I need help with? This channel does not allow links or attachments.

[dense mesa]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[light prawn]

please help in #help-bread

[vapid jay]

What i didn't send that, how did i didn't type that I swear wtf

[untold narwhal]

Hey guys, I've started learning python and I'm pretty keen to turn this into my job. I'm just a bit unsure whether I should be leaning to wards front end or back end development. Whats likely to have more opportunities, is there any where I can go to research it a bit more. I live in New Zealand in a small town so not a lot of people here to talk to about it

[smoky quest]

if you want python, it's mostly gonna be backend since it doesn't run on the browser

[untold narwhal]

Yeah I was considering moving into html

[smoky quest]

you may be interested in https://roadmap.sh/ which lists out a few skills based on the role

[untold narwhal]

Ah yeah awesome, thankyou!

[vapid jay]

is anyone alive, need some insight into RPA, industry trends

not that I'm looking into doing anything on it, just need perspective on other people's experience

[dense mesa]

Can you be more specific on what you're looking for?

[zealous parrot]

Can those already in the industry recommend anything to do during the summer/school time to help increase my chances/knowledge? I'm currently a first-year Comp Sci student

[summer roost]

internships. Do your best to get internships. Other than that, TA jobs are really helpful, as is time spent helping with large open source projects - pip or CPython or Black or things like that.

[kind oar]

agree, other than internships and projects, networking in any events can help open a few door that otherwise wouldn't be available.

not sure if with covid companies still do much stuff

[zealous parrot]

@summer roost Since I'm new to coding and I'm only a first year student, do you think my chances of getting an internship are slim?

[summer roost]

some people have luck getting internships after their first year, but they're more common after your second or third year.

it's worth applying and trying, though.

[zealous parrot]

Okay! And regarding open source projects, are these things I can place onto a resume?

Also lastly, I've been meaning to reach out to programmers who live in my hometown to ask if I can shadow/get mentored by them. I'm not sure if that's common practice but I think it would be helpful

[harsh sonnet]

Good day to everyone. I have recently thinking about diversifying and want to know which other languages should I start with now that I am pretty much done with python. Any suggestions?

[gritty rivet]

That depends entirely on what you want to do

[vapid jay]

I place my favorite repos on my resume

[buoyant seal]

What programming fields are your specialization.. what do u develop

[vapid jay]

^

[summer roost]

Yes, they definitely are

[primal pine]

i failed a backend interview application but they said they want to consider me for database engineer and SRE roles. For reference, I am a fresh grad. Which role will help me gain proper experience to become a software engineer/dev in the future? Ngl i dont really know whats a database engineer but Im leaning more towards that.
Roles if you want to know:
SRE:
https://careers.shopee.sg/job-detail/2264
Database engineer:
https://careers.shopee.sg/job-detail/2266

[kind oar]

pretty sure that is very weird to do to individuals.
but if that is your style, maybe reach out to consulting firms or such for "unpaid internships", but just weird due to a lot of reasons.

or you could volunteer somewhere, less weird.

[zealous parrot]

@kind oar Volunteer? Didn't realize there was compsci volunteer opportunities

[kind oar]

well, it is more of odd gigs stuff for local non profits.

but first think about what you actually want to do, because it might not be relevant at all.

open source projects is volunteering btw lol

[summer roost]

of those two roles, the one that's closer to software engineer is probably SRE. In my experience, SRE teams work more closely with dev teams than database engineers do, so you'll likely have more of a chance to form relationships and cross-pollinate skills. And the skills listed for the SRE job include programming languages like Python and Bash, which will be useful to you in a software engineer role.

database engineers tend to be more siloed than SREs.

[buoyant seal]

SRE = is basically infrastructure engineer with a bit of sysadmin duties, the strict difference that SRE must apply dev skills to resolve TOIL problems.
So SRE it is some sort of cross between pipeline engineer, cloud engineer, and a bit of sysadmin support in the mix.
Quite good role if being perfomed in the right way.

Database engineer:
I am less familiar with DBA tbh. I've got a feeling it is some sort of cross between Developer and Sysadmin support again. Duties can be pretty much manual like extracting some sort of analytics from database, to analyzing bottlenecks to optimize database work...
oh, checked hiring web sites, DBA is also responsible to set Replications of database, to ensure data safety, backups and restoration from then. (Technically part of cloud engineering duties)
Potentially working at database side scripting can be there too.
Basically I guess a master of SQL I guess.

I wonder in which role duties dealing with all 50 shades of NoSQL flavours? 🤔
Lets assume that it is again cloud engineer duties then

[summer roost]

there's a lot of chances to teach programming to younger kids or older adults, actually - though that probably requires a bit more knowledge than you have after only 1 year.

[primal pine]

i see, thank you. its strange cause i never mentioned i know sql or linux for either role so idk why im being offered

[buoyant seal]

oh yeah, Linux is assumed to be known for both roles. Heavily known.

[primal pine]

yeah i never mentioned linux but they want to consider me for those roles, but im confused on why

[buoyant seal]

Perhaps they just lack people in both positions heavily enough to try getting person trained in the process
Or perhaps they have poor hiring processes and they hire just any person for any position
Or perhaps instead of SRE/DBA, it would be basically just help desk support positions masked as SRE/DBA

Who knows?

[primal pine]

i hope its the first reason, but im gonna try to grind out sql i guess, the sre role feels better for my future but i lack too much from there

[buoyant seal]

Who knows...

[buoyant seal]

Honestly it would be far better jumping into SRE after having experience as Backend developer

It gives Developer first, Infrastructure as a Code first perspective

[primal pine]

im a fresh grad without any experience

[buoyant seal]

DevOps / SRE is basically a person who knows a lot in wide spheres of things. It does not make sense to start those roles as first role

[summer roost]

they think your strengths in other areas may outweigh your weakness in that area.

[primal pine]

yeah but iirc i never mentioned sql but they want to consider me for database eng -> i dont know sql but i can probably relearn quick

[summer roost]

there are definitely companies that hire into SRE roles and train people up in them.

[vapid jay]

If they don't mention it though....

[buoyant seal]

Well, perhaps you are quick learner enough and they are indeed make training to catch you up to them
We can't know for sure without seeing how the company dev processes work 😉

[primal pine]

yeah i dont know either, but i think i'll go on the dbe role cause its easier to manage.... i basically lack 90% of the requirements in the sre role, sorry been really struggling with confidence problems but not the place for this

[summer roost]

well, it's definitely harder to switch from db engineer to software engineer than from site reliability engineer to software engineer. They're definitely further apart.

[buoyant seal]

You know, even if they don't really train you, it can be oportunity for you to get experience and to train yourself.
I joined startup with ridiculous low entry level bar, and nobody trained me.
But I made startup as my sandbox and trained hard a year while I was in it and grew to... more appropriate skill levels

Fresh grads in some countries can be lucky just getting into any role.
The important thing is getting experience and learning hard on your own 😉

[summer roost]

I mean, one possibility is that they liked talking to you and thought you presented yourself well in the interview, but weren't quite up to the skill level they were looking for in a software engineer, so they're trying to find other places where they think you'd fit because they'd like to have you.

[primal pine]

how much harder would you say i guess? i see what u mean for the second post

[summer roost]

I think that's hard to quantify, but I'd say the tools and technologies used by database engineers are quite a lot different than the tools and technologies used by software engineers and SREs. In a lot of cases, the latter 2 use the same tools in different ways.

[primal pine]

sorry i dont want to like ignore what you guys say but the sre role kinda spooks me from how much i lack

like the only thing on the req i have is python

[summer roost]

SREs manage and run systems, and SWEs develop software that runs using those systems, so they're at two ends of the same process. DBEs tend to sit off in their own little world and only interact with SWEs when they're consulted for help with a problem

so, both SREs and SWEs might need to know how to use Docker, but DBEs might not, for instance.

[buoyant seal]

SRE can be sort of fulfilling developer role too, as they can be Infrastructure Developers basically

[primal pine]

i see.... this is hard zzz cause i dont have the confidence to succeed for sre role due to lacking so much but its closer to what i want to do

[summer roost]

yeah, the SRE role is a lot more fluid. There are companies where SREs are regular developers who just focus more on infrastructure, and there are ones where SREs are a whole separate department who takes the things that software engineers give them and treat them as a black box.

maybe "fluid" isn't the right word - "SRE" can mean very different things at different companies, which can be good in terms of transferability

[buoyant seal]

xD, lets aim for first approach, it looks better. Separating Dev and Ops just calls for some troubles

[primal pine]

i only have these 2 out of the reqs, lmao what am i

[summer roost]

it can be good in terms of transferability because a company that sees that you've held an SRE job in the past might assume based on the title that the job you were doing is similar to what their SREs do, even if it wasn't.

[summer roost]

You've never used Linux? And you don't have a degree? What is your background?

[primal pine]

oops i forgot i have a degree yes, but never used linux

[summer roost]

no better time to start learning!

[primal pine]

but like if i interview for the job wont it be weird to be like, i dont know linux, i would love to learn though, it says extensive and hands on knowledge tight there

[buoyant seal]

in a few months you can get used to it I think 🤔
It depends on how actively you are using it.
Or earlier.

[summer roost]

if you want to be a software engineer, you will very likely need to learn Linux at some point. I'd say more than 80% of real world software runs on a Unix system.

[buoyant seal]

if you want to be related to Web Dev field, than 99.9% of software runs in it 😉

[summer roost]

essentially all mobile phones are Unix based, all modern operating systems except Windows are Unix based, and the overwhelming majority of servers are Unix based.

[primal pine]

is it ok to just go into the interview with idk linux but i'll learn

[summer roost]

Outside of Unix, you pretty much only have Windows servers and Windows desktops, and the embedded space.

[summer roost]

sure, though if you have the chance to learn the basics beforehand it would only help you to do so. It's OK to say that you've only started learning but let them ask you questions about the basics.

[primal pine]

https://linuxjourney.com/ this a good place to quickly learn?

[buoyant seal]

hehe, probably I should go through a thing like this too
I think I have gaps in some sections
it looks good in covered topics

[summer roost]

I haven't seen it before, but it looks reasonable to me

[kind oar]

you're a fresh grad, I don't think they expect much of you

but yeah that's the spirit, but just show the initiative and learn a bit to get by to say "it is work in progress!"

[summer roost]

as a general rule, expectations for fresh grads are fairly low. Companies expect to need to teach you a lot of things. They care more about whether you've done a good job learning the things that you've been taught than whether you've been taught all the skills they need, because if you're a good learner they'll be able to help you learn the rest.

and, setting that aside, doing more interviews is a good idea in and of itself. Interviewing is a skill, and doing more interviews will help you hone that skill, and do better in future interviews. You'll learn to be more comfortable, and learn the types of questions that interviewers ask about.

[buoyant seal]

xD the probably enough dumb companies/startups to have expectations as general rule to make resilient high scalable, secure and maintanable with data safety systems by fresh grads

[kind oar]

they don't, they just want cheap insecure people who are willing to do more work.

[buoyant seal]

cheap yeah. they get fresh grads for all positions including tech lead and they learn in a hard way what happens then

[kind oar]

again, they aren't dumb, they just don't care

[buoyant seal]

Managers just don't know the.... gap of skills between fresh grads and experienced people

They assume that fresh grads are 2-3 times cheaper, then they just do work 2-3 times slower

[kind oar]

it is part of the sell.

and btw, most startups that actually hire a lot of people aren't really looking to stay in the market for long, just stay long enough to cash that green from investors.

[primal pine]

i see, really good advice here, i might reemail the company and say im also considering the sre role again but i dont know linux

[buoyant seal]

It is sort of good for beginning devs, it is experience non the less to get into the flow.

[primal pine]

will a general sre role have more programming/developing compared to dbe? i assume so from what u guys said since we work with dev teams

really appreciate the advice here, job search does suck

[kind oar]

meh, nothing much is expected from people below manager

you won't find issues getting employed as long as you can be consistently average and generally pleasant person to be around.

[buoyant seal]

hard to say, i encountered closely only SRE role and I think I am biased slightly against DBE due to bad encounter in the past regarding it
But looking from afar SRE looks more about automatizations and has more potential in my eyes than DBE role, which looks to be having a bit too much of manual duties.
I would have went for SRE basically.

[kind oar]

or just get employed till you find a better opportunity.
job search is way easier when employed.

[buoyant seal]

SRE done in a bad way, can be an operational nightmare too though

[kind oar]

then don't do it in a bad way

https://tenor.com/view/theodoros-gif-18371963

[buoyant seal]

well, lets assume that any job position can be made into bad one, regardless of the role 😉

[vapid jay]

^ I'd agree.

[primal pine]

thanks btw @summer roost @buoyant seal i need to evaluate this and if SRE is generally closer to SWE that i want to do in the future, its better to just dive in and tell them i'll learn

[vapid jay]

If you want to play with Security in mind, you should check out SCC:

https://www.niwcatlantic.navy.mil/scap/

[frozen gate]

If expectations for new grads are so low why do so many entry level positions want experience?

[smoky quest]

they don't?

[summer roost]

Jobs that want experience and jobs that want new grads are not the same jobs.

[kind oar]

I want to be a trophy husband, but sadly that won't happen so I guess I'll just have to settle to be the queen of england

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> advertising

[kind oar]

<@&831776746206265384>

[strange wave]

I’m not allowed to ?

[tender frost]

We do not allowed advertisement here, as is clearly stated in our #rules. Please do not do so again

[kind oar]

what community even allows ads?

[strange wave]

Ok

[tender frost]

!ban 887195657838952519 7d Upon further reflection, this isn't the first time you've been told not to advertise here. You even contacted ModMail asking for permission to post again, which was denied, yet you posted anyway. You've shown nothing but contempt for our rules.

Should you wish to rejoin our server when the ban expires, ensure you follow staff instructions and the rest of our rules.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @strange wave until <t:1643270368:f> (6 days and 23 hours).

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384> mute your sound before opening the link

[haughty swan]

any recommendation for a cv builder?

[gilded valley]

MS Word is often a good idea. Quite a few places force CVs into .docx regardless of the format they were uploaded in, and Word makes it so that it's pretty easy to ensure that the pdf->docx is ok

[haughty swan]

so you mean I should use one of the word templates or just make it on my own?

[gilded valley]

you could use a template - but is it really making life any easier?

[haughty swan]

I remember reading some time ago about the need of having 'hidden cells' format (i.e. 3 columns = 3 cells) and some people were discussing templates by name. What do I need to know?

[dense mesa]

https://latexresu.me

[haughty swan]

stumbled upon this earlier but ended up using a template from overleaf

[dense mesa]

Yeah I use overleaf

[inner wren]

Hey @rocky creek!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[slim lotus]

I need experienced programmer to answer my questions:
1.is Django dying or is gonna die soon.
2.what is its future.
3.Should I keep learning it or switch to flask.
4.Is Django demanded in current market.

[pastel thunder]

what are some best research area in Deep Learning????

[native field]

I think NLP is doing some of the best work in Deep Learning, especially with some of the newer Language Models hosted on HuggingFace.

[pastel thunder]

and i have am seeing cnn also trending, it there something interesting in there ?
my friend is going toward image compression and scaling architectures....

[native field]

CNN's are making a comeback, thanks to some recent advances in the image recog space

[pastel thunder]

this:?

[native field]

Yup, https://huggingface.co/ is a great resource to get started

[pastel thunder]

and if i think of some optimisation or improving architecture...am i looking at years of work or still possible in months?

i have no idea though..about how i will achieve it

[native field]

It's definitely doable in like 5 or 6 months if you're willing to put in the work. You certainly won't be an expert, but if you follow a goal-oriented schedule, you will definitely learn a lot.

[pastel thunder]

i think for now research project will be faster

[native field]

Sure, do you have a topic in mind for your project?

[pastel thunder]

actually i want it to be atleast accepted in springr elsevier in 5 months

cannot wait more ...i am gonna apply for masters...

[native field]

Oh, you're trying to get into a master's program. I actually just finished mine, so if you need any advice, feel free to reach out to me

[pastel thunder]

thats great thank you, i dont have right now...by sunday i have to pitch my idea to professor

i barely managed to convince him to allow me under him

[native field]

I believe in you! What was your proposed topic?

[pastel thunder]

he didnt give me any domain ...vaguely told about nlp, cnn

[native field]

That's interesting.

[pastel thunder]

one of my peer is going to pitch about scaling/compression...but i want a bit more sophisticated

for my SOP

[native field]

Scaling and compression algorithms are pretty sophisticated these days, but I think you should propose a topic that your interested in, like NLP

[pastel thunder]

i wont sleep today untill i find one...

[native field]

How about we talk in a private channel. I'll message you and we can talk there.

[light radish]

I have an amazon in person interview oppurunity for SDE 1, I just have to confirm.

Should I go for it? I really suck at leetcode, I can barely do the easy problems. I also am an Electrical Engineer, I didn't go to school for CS. I just recently started going hard in python to switch over to a software type career...

I've seen videos of people who went through amazon interviews and it seems very intense I don't even think I would be able to get past the first technical question

[vapid jay]

Do or do not.

[smoky quest]

so you have nothing to loose in trying?

[haughty oriole]

Is there a channel for looking for work?

[digital fjord]

no, we have no way to moderate such a channel

[light radish]

I believe you can't qualify for a job there for 6 more months after failing an interview, sometimes longer

[smoky quest]

If you aren't ready now, you won't be ready in less than 6 months

but if you are completely unprepared, then yeah, you would be wasting everyone's time

[safe loom]

I don't know if you've watched Fireship's video about landing a job in tech, but aren't the criteria a bit too demanding?
https://youtu.be/Xg9ihH15Uto

[vapid jay]

Hi there! I am a self-taught and have been working in IT for more than 6 years now starting from the call center, 1st line support, 2nd line support, application support expert up to IT monitoring engineer where I work mostly with synthetic testing and Azure, but I have some struggles with learning Python programming (well, programming in general if I may say). In automation I do not use that much of programming, because I just writing selenium scripts and setup environment. My ultimate goal is to move to programmer job let's say in two years as well as I would really excel at my current position if I learn programming as my employer offered position even knowing that I quite noobish when it comes to programming. I dedicate 2 hours daily every single day to my studies. I have Coursera myself, LinkedIn from employer. I have also done some really easy stuff on CodeWars and CheckIO. Have started with https://www.coursera.org/professional-certificates/google-it-automation, but when it comes to assignments I struggle with understanding how to solve the code issues, not the syntax itself. I just thin maybe I should really go with this before taking that Google specialization https://www.coursera.org/specializations/computer-fundamentals as it includes some algorithmic thinking courses too. So, my question is if there could be any self-taught professional who could answer couple of questions from time to time or could at least put me into the right direction? Would really appreciate a lot. No SPAM evah, promised!

[left basin]

Hi guys, I was wondering how much value my internship actually delivers for my CV.
I am in a start up where I mostly deal with scrapy and some basic MySQL.
I don’t know but the framework itself is not really needed it’s more like super niche. I hope there will be some task with an api soonish so I can do this as well. What’s your opinion

[vapid jay]

Feel free to pm @vapid jay

[kind oar]

depends on what your goal is, but any experience is good for you, I think most entry levels actually need to be put in a professional environment, learn how to navigate daily office stuff maturely, so don't discount your experience.

technical skills can be learnt more easily than interpersonal skills.

[left basin]

Thanks for That feedback. What do you think about that module? Is scrapy valuable or too niche? And lots of low wage freelancers out there

I mean 42,5k GitHub stars

[kind oar]

idk man not a programmer, I came across scrapy a few times while researching stuff, so I think it could be useful, but all depends on what you want to do.

BTW collecting data on your own, cleaning it and storing it on a DB will be VERY valuable if you decide to stick to the data field.

overall, it is an internship, just do the few weeks you have to do.

idk how freelancing is related, if you're in a "first world" country then that is probably because there are more skilled people who are willing to do the job for 1/10 your price due to their local low cost of living.

[vapid jay]

Are you scraping websites for the data @left basin ?

[smoky quest]

Haven't watched the video.
Are you referring to a specific criteria?

[spare nymph]

I'm not sure of all the context here, but my internship was a very big deal. Virtually every call/response I received regarding permanent positions after graduating were almost solely due to having had that internship, and it would've been much harder to land a position with just a degree and no experience under my belt. I live in a fairly competitive area though, so as always YMMV.

Best thing I think you can do in your position, is find out the most meaningful/impactful work you did and slap those as bullet points on your resume. Get to the bottom line with them, explain how exactly it helped your company/team/position/whatever. If you sped up data ingestion, give some numbers by how much. If you automated some testing solution, explain how that freed up developers to do other things. (Note: my perspective is US-based one and by your mention of CV I assume that you're outside the US so you may take it with a grain of salt, but I do think it's a generally beneficial approach in most places)

[safe loom]

There's the whole part about networking. That and also the need to mould yourself for each company you want to apply

[smoky quest]

and that's the part being too demanding?

[dense mesa]

The best way to get good at networking is to do it so much that you realise that it's basically a fun way to learn about people's careers and what they wanna do

[safe loom]

Sort of. Also because I don't want to climb mountains before I can reach an entry job. The vid sounded too much like "commit 500 times, do 15 competitions, connect to 200 people get your weekly rewards and then you can summon your 6-figure job at a 1% rate"

[spare nymph]

I wouldn't say you need to "mould" yourself to each company, but definitely before going into an interview do research on the position/company. Enough to have a decent conversation about it.

[smoky quest]

A lot of these advice are about increasing your odds. If you don't like a specific advice, don't do it

[started watching the video] and a few of them are complete BS anyway. I don't know a single person who would care how many commits you have on your gh profile per week. These are just vanity metrics, but I do acknowledge they can be useful to stand out in some very specific occasions

[spare nymph]

Also in regards to the applications and commits, he was referring to what the Bloom Institute of Technology requires of you to be eligible for a refund if you don't find a job.

[smoky quest]

The videos goes back to it afterwards as a way to show your activity and commitment

[spare nymph]

With that said, I probably did apply to 200+ positions before landing my entry level job after school. I don't think I've made 500 total commits on github in my entire life, though.

[dense mesa]

200?? What was your system for applying for each one?

[smoky quest]

wow that's a lot. props for the commitment

[spare nymph]

Various. I mostly did one-click applies which is probably why. But also tried a few recruiters I know, few connections at companies like general motors etc.

I applied to a lot, only even made an HR screening in maybe 5-10% of what I applied for, and then made it to round 2 in most of those. Failed a technical or two along the way, got rejected over a salary debate in one, and finally landed a position.

[dense mesa]

Congratulations! What kinda background were you applying with?

[spare nymph]

Bachelor of CS (from Western Governors University) and an internship as a product developer for a supply chain company

[brittle jungle]

i got a job with one picture of a board i made - then 30 minutes of nerd talk with a engineer - sometimes it is that simple

[spare nymph]

Yeah, the one I landed didn't even have a technical interview funny enough. We just talked a bit about the job and my previous experience/school projects, then talked about the company and position and that was it.

[brittle jungle]

get nerdy - chat about projects - show pics , how you solved problems

[spare nymph]

and rejection isn't always a bad thing - the company I landed offered me about 40-50% more than the average salary ranges I had been applying for. so in a way im glad they rejected me

[brittle jungle]

sometimes if they reject you - they either , refer you to another OR call you later

this is when its -- the right time to be super - nerdy ,

most on the job will be of same mind frame - so get your nerdyness active

[untold falcon]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[kind oar]

who doesn't like a coworker who's whole life is his job? /s

[kind oar]

If you even have to do that again, I think I saw this browser addon that can automatically fill some info for you

but that was like a year ago or something, but pretty cool none the less

[spare nymph]

there's actually a LinkedIn Easy Apply bot written in python on github

[kind oar]

no I mean for companies job boards

[spare nymph]

that's pretty dope, I'll check it out

[kind oar]

It have the big ones, like workday and taleao? something like that

[dense mesa]

Link?

[spare nymph]

https://github.com/nicolomantini/LinkedIn-Easy-Apply-Bot iirc was the one. there may be more up-to-date forks but that's the original I believe

[dense mesa]

Damn that's awesome

[gritty rivet]

My background is not unlike yours but I'm in the late stages of interviewing for my first SWE role. I just did the Nucamp bootcamp on Backend with Python and that was exactly what I needed to make the transition. So I definitely recommend looking into it. But anyway, feel free to DM me with any questions

[ivory sluice]

very excited to hear once you start getting offers!

[gritty rivet]

Thanks! I have a fifth (!) round interview tomorrow morning so I'm hoping it won't be much longer ☺️

[ivory sluice]

fifth

good luck then!

[tropic echo]

if i wanted to start free lancing in pythhon, why would i need to know before hand, also how would i market basic skills

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/ could be a good start

[tropic echo]

thank you

[vapid jay]

.

[wheat idol]

Hi I'm new to coding and want to become a software engineer to develop apps then games is going to a coding camp a good idea to start?

[inner wren]

Hey @weak kayak!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.mkv). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[smoky quest]

depends where you start from and the alternative solutions

[tribal topaz]

Hello

[glossy elk]

Hello

[safe loom]

Huh, interesting (now if every job board could have an easy apply too)

[agile turtle]

guys any tips for part time job

[near ocean]

what kind of tips, what kind of part time job, we cant read your mind

[agile turtle]

actually i was going to follow up then i was texting elsewhere, i'll explain , i mean any official degree or something , but i am intermediate in python have created some little projects and know web dev have, i am studying machine learning and also have created some projects in that, i needed some money so.... what should i do

writing this i myself realise that either i need to create more projects and showcase them and then apply for work at some sites,

[raven rain]

The quickest way would probably be to find projects you're confident you can complete on any of the many freelancing websites and just try applying.

[worn pawn]

Bois.. how much python will I have to learn to land a remote job?

[gilded valley]

somewhere between none and a lot

[worn pawn]

I'll take the job with none😂

[gritty rivet]

Best way to get a sense for this is to look at platforms like UpWork and Fiverr. You can see exactly what people are looking to hire for and who your competition will be

[near ocean]

Remote jobs sound nice but every time i take 2 days in a row WFH it completely fucks me up

[gritty rivet]

Best way to get a sense for this is to look at job listings. Roadmap.sh is also relevant here

[near ocean]

I get insanely fatigued, bored out of my mind, i forget to eat, it messes with my mood

[gilded valley]

How long have you been working?

[near ocean]

5 months in this current job

[gilded valley]

I more meant total experience - I'm the same, I find WFH very unpleasant in practicality, but I'm curious is that's just because I'm still junior and only just getting into the flow of things

[near ocean]

That is my total experience hahahaha

[gilded valley]

fair enough then - I'm in a near enough identical boat to you

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, some people definitely prefer the office. Definitely not me though! I keep the same working schedule at home as strictly as I can including a one hour lunch at the same time every day. And I'm so glad not to have to overhear my co-workers BS all day 😋

[gilded valley]

how about you Dowcet - how long have you been in the workforce?

[worn pawn]

Thnks buddy, I'll check out roadmap
As for job listings is ycombinator enough?

[gritty rivet]

I was in-office IT support almost 2 years already when the pandemic hit

[gritty rivet]

I've been finding a lot on Indeed. I also really like Otta.com because they tag jobs with required technologies in a nice way

[near ocean]

On the coworker note, i definitely prefer the office
Whenever im at home and they call me every x hours I always seem to have to go through the same exact small talk before i get to their query, in the office this never happens

[gritty rivet]

That does sound annoying. I'm sure a lot depends on the role and the people

[gilded valley]

I can't stand the "Hi, how are you, how was your weekend," that comes before the "now fix my problem". I'd much rather jump to the "now fix my problem"

well that's for when I'm on a Teams/Skype call with someone over voice. Fwiw, I don't mind the small talk at the start of actual meetings, I just dislike it for those impromptu one-one things where someone is asking someone else for help

Switzerland

[near ocean]

Income should be adjusted to cost of living so i dont think it matters where you work and i dont think its good to base your location around your job

You're in the wrong business if you wanna be "rich"

[gilded valley]

assuming cost of living and salary are 100% proportional, then it's much better to be in a high CoL area because you can save a higher absolute amount and be richer in a different country when you retire or move

[near ocean]

Cost of living

I guess it depends on their definition of rich
I dont think you can get rich (using any reasonable definition) with programming alone, but you will definitely be super comfortable wherever you live

And my definition of "comfortable" is "never having to worry about money"

[gilded valley]

There are people in California/NYC etc on incredibly high total comp of up to like 500k pa, by any reasonable definition, after a few years on a total comp of 250k pa, you could become rich. But they're a very small minority

[near ocean]

Sure but nobody gets 500k+ by just closing tickets, it takes a lot more than programming to get that high up

Maybe im misunderstanding what Auritajel means by "as a programmer"

[gilded valley]

Maybe. That's definitely the story I've been told though, that there's just these excellent uber productive 10xers who end up making tonnes of money. I don't buy the idea that it's a generalisable archetype though.

[near ocean]

Ok, a programmer in what level? What kind of experience, what kind of tech are you using? Which company are you thinking of

I'll never believe that you can get to 500k (in any currency) by writing wordpress plugins

It depends on a lot of factors, moreso than location and taxes

The average over all positions and experience and tech is meaningless, it tells you next to nothing

Because you just decided to use it

Its simple and its easy to calculate, doesnt mean its meaningful

Barely
If the average salary for haskell devs in finland is 6k, the average overall is 2k
But the average overall in sweden is 3k, where would you decide to go to maximise your earnings

[gilded valley]

Most people aren't on the average income.

[near ocean]

Stats isnt as simple as taking an overall average

[digital fjord]

remember that if you have one programmer making 500k and a dozen making 50k, the average is about 84k

[near ocean]

So why are you looking at overall gross averages

[digital fjord]

even though no one is actually being paid 84k. You really want median, not the average, here

median is the value whose average difference to each data point is the lowest

[near ocean]

No, it depends on what youre working with and as

[digital fjord]

you don't know what the actual income is from the average. It could be there is one company paying 10k and everyone else is getting paid 100k, but the average is only 70k or whatever

median is a tad more useful, but it depends on the actual job you can get

[near ocean]

Whats the average software dev salary across the US and what is it for google in silicon valley for l3 devs or whatever their scale is

[digital fjord]

what you should do is find job offers you could take and see what range they tend to be in

[near ocean]

@vapid jay google this one question and see wild differences in scale

[empty sage]

java or c++, which is easier to learn within a time span of 3-4 days

[near ocean]

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> is this what they call a hyper scam

[fringe pine]

!warn 864406808436277248 Please do not promote within this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @fierce gust.

[vast shoal]

It's a bit of a meaningless question, because there's no way you can learn either in 3-4 days.

[empty sage]

i learnt python in 5 days wdym

[vast shoal]

I think we have very different ideas of what it means to learn a programming language.

[empty sage]

by learning i mean at least able to program some basic things

[vast shoal]

If by basic things, you mean a simple console program, you might be able to do either in C++ or Java in 3-4 days. But that says nothing of your capacity to actually make anything useful.

Putting aside any unrealistic notions of being able to learn a language in less than a week, you're probably generally speaking going to have more issues learning C++ than learning Java. Java manages memory for you through garbage collection, similar to what Python does, whereas in C++ you have to deal with it manually. This creates a lot more pitfalls that can lead to confusing bugs when you don't know what you're doing.

[empty sage]

bruh

[worn orchid]

You never really learn the whole thing, language-wise

There is always something new

[empty sage]

yea i know that

[vast shoal]

Yeah, but you barely learn anything in less than a week.

Not unless you're intimately familiar with another language that's very similar.

Like, if you're an experienced C# dev, you can probably pick up the most important aspects of Java in less than a week and become at least somewhat productive.

[real oyster]

how much do employers care about github profile - I mean like, appropriateness

I was thinking of making one just for 'professional' use/portfolio and then like a personal one

[analog sun]

Keep the personal ones as private repos, I think github doesn't allow multiple accounts per user

[real oyster]

oh did not realise that, thanks for the heads up

[near ocean]

i dont think you can have multiple personal accounts, but you could have other types of github account

[gritty rivet]

Yup, with separate email addresses this works fine @real oyster

[real oyster]

alright i'll have a look into it

[sharp thunder]

Does anybody think it’s an easy process to transition from system admin to Devops engineer? I know basic python language, azure, learning Jenkins while applying for those jobs but don’t know if these would be enough to secure a position

[gritty rivet]

I don't know about "easy" but it sounds like you're on the right track, especially if you have Linux experience. Check out https://discord.gg/devops and https://roadmap.sh/devops

[sharp thunder]

I have Linux experience as well, though I use it for cyber security uses. Thanks! Looking at least to get a junior position

[vapid jay]

Which field is best in IT?

for a new student?

[novel raptor]

Can anyone give me some advice for next steps I can take? I am an engineer, though not in CS that has been trying to transition to the tech industry. I've done a master's in big data and have actually worked for a while as an IoT developer for a start up. That being said, I was the only developer, so I always think I am missing some concepts that I could've learned with a team. Anyways, I started a consulting job where I was told I'd work in data science, but it hasn't been the case, so I am trying to prepare to jump ship. I am wondering, what can I do to build up my portfolio and collaborate with other developers? I want to make sure I can be proficient in a dev team and I know best practices and such, but idk where to find projects/colleagues with some experience

[kind oar]

most data science jobs are just data analysts.

especially in consulting firms

[vapid jay]

__help__

[gritty rivet]

In my limited experience I would say very often, but not in great depth.

[novel raptor]

I hear you. It's a weird spot where in the two months I've been there I've jumped between a couple of projects and it's more PMO than anything else. The stuff they have me do regarding data has just been excel and I'm not particularly good at it. There's no coding so far or any of the stuff I interviewed for

[smoky quest]

Sounds like you want to work in a team where you can learn from other more senior engineers?

You should look for and talk to your manager for opportunities for mentorship and collaboration

[novel raptor]

that's definitely what I want. Unfortunately, the company I started with doesn't seem to be the kinda place to do this. It's no what I expected when I joined and you get assigned a project and have to see it through, but it's not really tech related so I don't feel it's gonna prepare me for what I'd like to do when I jump ship

[vapid jay]

i want to become pro gamer hacker

[near ocean]

This isnt a meme channel

[smoky quest]

fair enough.
Note that can also be an opportunity to have an impact at the company by trying to organize such opportunities. Other coworkers may feel the same than you. But it can be easier to jump ship.

[novel raptor]

I hear you, it's just very corporate though. Mostly consulting for companies like banks, it's all very businessy, so lots of meetings, making slides and coordinating projects lol

[kind oar]

if you're looking for deep domain knowledge then consulting isn't the place you're looking for, I suggest you to keep looking for internal jobs in regular companies (the bigger the better).

for excel, it is VERY versatile if you know your way around it, suggest you visit this, a lot of stuff can be done better in PowerQuery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r31X8YCF9bM&list=PLrRPvpgDmw0lPPRiJO5dCUratRGpGx3aT&index=1

https://youtu.be/iRuazQke6SY

you should be familiar with a lot of the data modeling stuff though.

[vapid jay]

So I had ONE interview with a company and they gave me an offer the next day

Is it suspicious?

[tropic echo]

how would i get my money on fiverr or upwork?

[near ocean]

No, youre letting FAANG type almost-literal hoop jumping style interview processes get to you

[vapid jay]

also

I sorta don't know what the job is, would it look weird if i ask for a position summary

[smoky quest]

depends on the interview and company

[smoky quest]

You should definitely ask about it. Whether they tell you more about it or tell you there is a team selection coming up, that's up to them, but at least you will know

[near ocean]

When youre interviewing youre supposed to ask about these things

[vapid jay]

I did, and their answers were vague lol

[near ocean]

Then thats not a good sign and you should keep it in mind

[vapid jay]

They sorta told me that they do everything

[smoky quest]

It's a free country. Ask more until you get it. You are about to sign up for 1 or more years with them. Better know what you are signing into

[near ocean]

Is it a startup?

[vapid jay]

nah its a pretty big company

[smoky quest]

even startups aren't that disorganized they would hire people to do random things

[vapid jay]

How should I ask it? like what format

[smoky quest]

• What are the criteria for success? What would make you say I am a successful hire in 6months?
• What are my day to day activities?
• Can you give me an example of tasks I would work on?

[vapid jay]

What's wrong with one singular interview?

[near ocean]

Sure but startups need people to cover lots of bases so its a commonality to have them not be super specific because well, they cant, youre going to have variety in the job

[smoky quest]

That's not enough to understand the candidates

[vapid jay]

I hate startups and avoid them at all costs, not about to clock in 12 hours to keep some small company afloat

for a ping pong table and a sense of "we are a family!"

I suppose it all depends on the questions asked @smoky quest, anything beyond 2 interviews and I'm looking elsewhere.

[smoky quest]

Startups may have a broad range of tasks for an employee, but they will be well defined, at the very least in terms of an area.
Hiring is a distraction, is expensive and takes up funds. So they won't hire and then see wherever they need

[smoky quest]

I have never seen any hiring process with less than 4-5 interviews, whether as hiring or as a candidate.
2 meetings only give enough time to understand their motivation/situation and a filter. They wouldn't even get to meet the team or be tested across different areas.

[vapid jay]

I've been doing "IT Security" type work since 2013, and only once ever had >1 interview.

I've worked for small companies and rather large ISPs like Charter (aka, Spectrum) 4-5?? Heck no.

[near ocean]

4-5 interviews is insane and im definitely not sticking around for that long unless they pay me for my time

[smoky quest]

that may be different for IT security. For sw dev, it's common

[vapid jay]

Even my current job, I only had two, and the second was from the VP to make sure I'd be happy there.

[vapid jay]

Very true.

[smoky quest]

If a candidate can't spare 4-5h of their time, that's a bad signal though

[vapid jay]

Its not about sparing time though in that respect. Its about the company honoring "my time"

[near ocean]

4-5h is not insignificant, if your boss decided not to pay you for 4-5 hours in your work day you'd be annoyed to say the least

[vapid jay]

I'm all about busting my butt, I've been known to work 14 hour days, happily. But prior to working there? Meh.

[smoky quest]

I see it more like an investment and making sure both parties are the right fit. No way I would feel comfortable with just 2h

[vapid jay]

I feel uncomfortable at about the 1hr part. But again, its a security role, so perhaps different ways of thinking/looking at things. Definitely never done pure s/w dev

[near ocean]

Also you said 4-5 interviews, from friends' stories interviews at some of these firms go from 1-3h each, yea no

Have a close friend that went through 3x 3h interview rounds with Bank of America

[smoky quest]

just for the sake of making sure we are talking about the same thing. By interview, I am referring to 1h sessions.

yeah, precovid, it would be common to go on site for a round of 3-4 sessions. They could provide lunch, get to meet folks and have breaks in between

3x 3h is definitely not common and quite rough

[vapid jay]

I suppose sec roles are diff. Either you can hack it or not.

You can generally feel someone out within about 30 minutes when talking shellz and such. Either they got it, or they're not rdy.

[near ocean]

My sister recently went through an in-person 8h interview, they quite literally scammed her into a 9-5 work day for free

[smoky quest]

also could depend on the location. Different places have different cultures in terms of interviews

[vapid jay]

8 hours? Insane.

Speaking of which, we're always looking for good security candidates where I work. Feel free to dm me if you got some chops

[near ocean]

Happy with my current startup bazillion hours/day job thankfully

Its not as hard as people think

[vapid jay]

Also i kinda want to ask if the salary is negotiable, how about asking "i would like to know if the offer is negotiable?"

[smoky quest]

it's always negotiable. It only depends on what are you able to afford to walk away from

[vapid jay]

I have 8 interviews next week, and i had 7 interviews last week, thats why im HIGHLY skeptical of accepting this offer.

i feel like im worth more and this just seemed almost too easy, low barrier of entry isn't always a good sign

[smoky quest]

If you don't plan on joining them, you can still use them as leverage to get a better offer somewhere else

[vapid jay]

How do I ask in the email then, do I say "I would like to receive x amount of money" or do i start with "is the offer negotiable" and go from there?

[smoky quest]

have they made a verbal or written offer to you yet?

[vapid jay]

written offer

They called me and i asked it in writing so they sent me an email with the offer package and benefits

[smoky quest]

great.
So think through it make sure you don't paint yourself in a corner.

• If you ask for X$ and they say yes? Then why wouldn't you join? If they say no, then what? If they want to discuss it more, then what are you gonna say or ask?
• How would that offer stand comparing to the incoming ones?
• What about letting them stew and give yourself some time to get another offer so that you can go back to each of them and let them know you got another higher offer (don't lie)

[vapid jay]

I kinda want to use this offer as leverage for other interviews, at least to expedite the process

[vapid jay]

If I like the job description (I want to know more because its VERY general)

then yea I will accept it

[smoky quest]

If I was you, given we are friday and you aren't clear on the job yet, I would probably try to delay things a bit on their end.
Probably saying something along the lines of how interested you are and how the people you talked to are amazing, but you either would like to talk more to one person to get a better sense of the job. Alternatively you could say you want to take the time to think through it over the week end. Alternatively you could say that while super itnerested with them and they are on top of your list, you want to wrap up another interview with another company, just to make sure you have no regret

[vapid jay]

I have 7 interviews next week and had 11 interviews last week (just counted, its actually 11 lol). How do I leverage this offer? I kinda want to use it to see if I can get something out of another company or expedite the interviewing process

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't mention that offer until you get another offer. Otherwise they will just do old_offer+1.

But don't hesitate to mention you are in late stage discussions so that they hurry up and feel some pressure and it feels like you are in hot demand

[gritty rivet]

Right now I'm a somewhat different but related situation... On the one hand I'm expecting an offer early next week from Company A after two months of back and forth (had my fifth and final interview today). On the other hand, I just had a brief initial interview with a Company B and a request from them today to schedule a second. I feel like Company B might offer slightly more interesting work and slightly better pay, but I only spoke to their internal recruiter so far and nobody else.

So I guess I'll wait and see what kind of offer I actually get from Company A. If it's a very good one I guess I'll just take it, but I'm not sure if or how I will stall and try to pursue any potential offer from Company B without risking the sure thing with Company A.

I guess I'm kind of just rubber ducking here but any opinions or advice are welcome.

[vapid jay]

Playing Devil's advocate here but mentioning that you're talking with other companies can backfire on you too.

[gritty rivet]

Yes, true, definitely a risk there that the latecomer will say nevermind then

[vapid jay]

^

I've tried leveraging in the past and it didn't work for me. That isn't to say it can't work for others though.

[smoky quest]

Having them hurrying up is more likely than dropping you out.
I would recommend to let them know you are in late stage discussions and how you are interested in them and how much you appreciate accelerating the process

From the employer's side, it comes down to effort vs reward. If it's unlikely for you to go there, then they won't push hard to pursue it.
However having a candidate stating they are in late stages or having another offer means they are more likely to be good than not. Thus it's more worthy to pursue them because they are more likely to pass the interview. After all, if another company wants you, there must be a reason to it. And passing on a possibly good candidate and hire means having to do a lot more interviews of random people.

[gritty rivet]

Interesting... I guess I wouldn't expect the opinion of some other supposed employer you know nothing about would have that much of an impact but I guess it does tell you something

[tropic echo]

What programming language(s), in anyones opinion would be best to free lance in? Also does anyone have any tips free lancing?

[smoky quest]

For the same reason, an employed person is a lot more valuable than an unemployed one.
So never ever ever ever ever quit prior to having lined up your next job

[summer roost]

You wouldn't think the "order soon, only 10 left in stock" on websites to be nearly as effective as it is in pressuring people to buy, either.

FOMO is a strong motivator

[smoky quest]

yeah, even as a candidate, I get much better reactions when I do the speech of "I am not actively looking, I am very comfortable here so you have to work for it" VS "I am in need of stretching myself and looking for something challenging and interesting, thus actively looking"

too much human psychology about what they want vs what others have vs what they can have

[vapid jay]

^

[smoky quest]

It can get comically close the IT crowd episode about online dating

[raven rain]

@tropic echo I've had success with both python and php.
As for tips, mostly just be honest about your abilities with both yourself and clients, and make sure you don't work for less than you're comfortable with (e.g. by working for a fixed price and underestimating the work needed).

[tropic echo]

do you also freelance?

cuz i could use some help

since im new

[raven rain]

I used to, but not recently. Last I did was a couple of months during the lockdown in 2000.

[tropic echo]

hmm

i know python at a fairly intermediate level (id say), will i be able to start freelancing?

[raven rain]

If you're planning on doing it online, the best way to know is to just take a look at projects posted on freelancing websites. If they seem like something you'd be comfortable working on, then I'd say yes.

[tropic echo]

what websites do u recommend?

[raven rain]

I used upwork the last time, had a pretty good experience.

[tropic echo]

hmm, im trying upwork and fiverr rn. upwork seems rlly hard tho

did i do something or is that just how it is?

[raven rain]

Idk, I got my first project after bidding on just a few, but maybe I just got lucky?
I did put a bit of effort into my profile though, so that probably helped.

[tropic echo]

hmm, i should prob redo it

[vapid jay]

Upwork sucks.

They rob the freelancer, stay away from them. Especially if you find that Unicorn. They'll rob you blind and sue you.

[regal tundra]

how about tutoring jobs? anyone know the ideal place to find those?

[whole fern]

You can start up one on your own. You can ask many tuition centres if they need

[dense mesa]

I'm probably gonna have to do something like this in 2 years or so, does this not weaken your negotiation position with the company you're applying for?

Since I'll be on a 3 year training programme, the most feasible way to get a good promotion after is to just change jobs. But I'll have to approach it as either "I'm comfortable or want to move", or "I really need a new challenge" etc

How is this relevant to the conversation above?

[dense mesa]

I have done both academic tutoring and personal development mentoring for a few years, your best bet would first be through a local academic institution. Other than that, there's many many websites online, but that's a whole conversation to go into

[regal tundra]

mmm i guess i could do that

[dense mesa]

If you're in the UK I can recommend some

[gritty rivet]

<sarcasm>Nope, nobody uses those. I've definitely never seen a job where you need to know something about SQL or NoSQL DBs.</sarcasm>

Sorry, does that answer your question 🤣

[burnt mist]

Hello all, I've been a fullstack web developer for 4 years now and I've used django and react.js for all of my projects.. and i love these 2 technologies it's like i cannot let go of one for the other..

So I was thinking to switch my company and I've got couple of offers actually. One is on web development (django, react) other one is on python fullstack (AI-ML, react.js) .. so the AI-ML offer which I have got basically is from a good company, i reached out to my hiring manager regarding my day-to-day task so he told my tasks would working on 80% on AI-ML and maybe 20% on react.js

Now I'm very sceptical whether should I move away from web development to AI-ML since I loved web development very much (especially django and react).. i know that AI-ML has very good scope in market so I'm very confused what should I do. Has anybody transitioned from web developer to AI-ML engineer here? And what was their experience? Or should I stick to web development (django & react)?

[ripe aurora]

Hi

[near ocean]

How do the salaries compare for the two offers
Personally i wouldnt switch what i work with if it didn't come with a significant raise

[burnt mist]

You can consider salaries are same..

But the offer i have for AI-ML, that company is a well know company.

Also the future is all about AI-ML, so I'm not certainly sure is it worth changing the domain..

[olive wing]

Accept the offer

There mfs in vietnam making sneakers for fiddy a day that would kll for that job

[arctic inlet]

yeah, accept the offer, what's the worst that could happen?

[ivory sluice]

that's not really a helpful statement here. it's well worth the time to consider all options

[olive wing]

I always use this excuse and makes me very happy about life

[ivory sluice]

sure it may work for you, but i'd refrain from saying that to someone you don't know on a public forum. i'll ask you to refrain

[summer roost]

What are your long-term goals? The salary potential of a career in ai/ml is probably higher than the salary potential of a career in web development, but if you already know that you like web development and you're making enough money to cover all of your needs, then that isn't necessarily the biggest factor to consider.

[burnt mist]

I'm just in my beginning of my career. I just have 4 years of experience.. and during this 4 years i loved working both django and react.js

But AI-ML is trendy and there is a good future in that too.

[near ocean]

AI/ML is given more importance than its due, yes its a fascinating and relevant aspect of computing but its not like web dev is ever going out of business

I personally would not switch to ai/ml from webdev without a significant raise, that would mean i have to go through learning new technologies with no extra pay or benefits

[burnt mist]

I actually talked to my hiring manager that I loved working with django, and react, so he told if you join us end of the day it's just going to be python instead of django you're going to make use of other python libraries (related to ai-ml)

For me it's really confusing and hard for me to choose which one.

Should I just consider the compensation or the company as well

[summer roost]

Again, that depends on what your long term goals are.

[burnt mist]

if i dont like AI-ML, maybe in an year or 2 I can switch back again to web dev and I will have that AI-ML hands on experience as well maybe I can put that in my resume

[burnt mist]

True, but at this point of time I don't have anything tbh 😐😅

[summer roost]

That doesn't really give us much to go on for advising you though. There are many more webdev jobs than ai/ml jobs but the ai/ml jobs tend to pay better and be more prestigious.

That's about all I can say in terms of objective facts.

[analog cypress]

I would try ML. You've only been working 4 years! I would optimize for breadth of experience. The basic coding skills you're building are also transferrable between these "fields"

[burnt mist]

Anybody here transitioned from web dev to AI-ML engineer? Would like to know what was their experience.

[smoky quest]

which? Not sure to follow which one you are referring to specifically

[smoky quest]

In startups/smaller companies/orgs, there may not be a dedicated ML/DS team (which comes with its own set of problems).
That means there can be a lot of opportunities to pitch AI/ML features in the product for a motivated engineer. That can give a good blend between the web part and the ai/ml part, and to be honest, is a lot more fun.

[near ocean]

I find it somewhat suspect that an AI/ML job was offered to someone with webdev experience, usually these jobs require a higher ed degree like a masters of phd and at least some experience with numpy/tf/keras/etc

[burnt mist]

Right, so basically my role is gonna be python fullstack developer.

So when i talked to my hiring manager he told my team will consists 3-4 members, so it's a new team that they are forming.. I'm the one, the other 2 will be AI-ML engineer, Data scientist and cloud engineer

So the key skill what they were asking for python and react.js

When i discussed about my day to day tasks he told, 80% would be on building the AI models and 20% would be related to react like showing graphs and stuff

So the below info was there in the JD

Strong coding abilities using Python and related frameworks like pySpark.
● Knowledge on at least one of the following skills: React, Angular.
● Experience with Cloud platforms, building and deploying cloud solutions (AWS preferred).

Few other things were there too, to keep it simple I added this.

[craggy cloak]

I have definitely worked in an adtech shop where strong AI/ML data engineers were partnered with traditional engineers in an attempt to create better code out the data scientists initial work.

It was pretty effective in retrospect.

[gleaming solar]

Hi I am looking for an discord expert to setup my discord for an project (good remuneration)

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

How can I try to find internship as high school student? (Junior)

[green swan]

hey can someone help me

[split oasis]

Just ask?

[green swan]

can't find download for python cv and I want to make a handtraking thing and I just don't know where to find it so I can implement my camera in python

could u give a link or something plz

[split oasis]

Have you tried asking in the help channels or general?

[green swan]

oh let me try sorry

[vapid jay]

What other big companies other than Google and Facebook have interest in ML and AI

from the view of hiring people

[smoky quest]

every big company

[vapid jay]

seriously?

[smoky quest]

I never joke

[vapid jay]

like apple for example?

[smoky quest]

have you tried to google about apple and ai/ml? Or their job ads?

[summer roost]

Have you heard of Siri? 😄

[true harness]

or alexa

[gritty rivet]

To what extent does learningAI/ML seem inherently interesting to you (as opposed to something you are only considering because it's hot and in demand)? To me that would be a key question.

[sudden quartz]

if you have no connections, make some locally

[summer roost]

internships for high school students are rare, in my experience. They're much more common at the college level.

[echo coyote]

You're right, the current society mainly looks at work experience and education, high school students really have very few opportunities

[smoky quest]

the goals and intent aren't the same too. A college level internship will focus more on the intended role the student is going towards to rather than just providing an intro to the professional world

[echo coyote]

I agree with you that instead of a college degree most companies care more about individual ability and teamwork, but the latter takes time to get an answer, so education is essential, unless you go to some companies that don't care about education

[smoky quest]

Education is also essential for a successful career. Spending 3-5 years studying full time a topic as broad and complex as CS can be quite handy once you go beyond the basics of wordpress setup 🙂

[peak halo]

In my experience (east coast US, computer science undergrad), even college freshmen usually wouldn't get internships after their first academic year. usually people would get them during their second or third summer.

@summer roost @true harness voice assistants are the worst example of (language) AI 😠 😠 😠

[true harness]

but they are extremely popular, even to non-techy people

[nimble oriole]

Do you guys have any python projects for my portfolio(that I as a trainee/junior can do) to get a job as a python dev? I don't know which are some things that could be seen as interesing for interviews

[peak halo]

because they're not even that techy...

(but I digress)

[peak halo]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[summer roost]

The goal was something people would recognize, not necessarily a good example of AI. 🤷

[gritty rivet]

What's interesting to an interviewer can vary widely based on the position. So strategize around what jobs you want, what skills they are looking for, etc.

[gritty rivet]

Another thing I would say is that a good project should solve a problem that's inherently interesting to you. If you're just doing something for the sake of your portfolio, it shows. Good projects are driven by genuine enthusiasm. A lot of the best projects I've seen are driven by hobbies and fun stuff... Can be sports, music, books, movies, cocktails, foraging wild edible plants, it really doesn't matter as long as you're into it

[halcyon comet]

hello?

can anyone teach me advanced python, i know some basics

[formal hedge]

hello i think i want to be a computer programmer but im not sure

[smoky quest]

is it a question or a statement?

[opaque spade]

Hello everyone,

I would like to know if it’s worth it for me to pursue a diploma or 2nd degree in computer science.

For context, I’m in my fifth year of Chemical Engineering and I’m interested in advancing my programming knowledge.

Also what is the life of a full time programmer like?

[smoky quest]

a CS degree does make things a lot easier.
The life of a full time programmer can be quite varied and different depending on the job/role/company/country/day_of_the_week

[vapid jay]

What do you think, does PCEP certificate increase entry levels to get more worth offers?

[smoky quest]

comparing to what?

[vapid jay]

like always thinking for solving bugs, making new things and drinking almost 20 cups of coffee.

of you got time you will prefer to sleep

always sleeping in weekends but you will get good salery on time if you are in good company and if you are not tried in weekends you will enjoy your weekend like king

this is the life of fulltime programmer

[kind oar]

@smoky quest aren't you american?

[noble tusk]

So is Comptia certification worth it? Because i saw reviews and some say that studying material are not same as test and its just trick to get you going and buy same next voucher from theyr store

or should i get CCNA

My future carrer would be pentester or smh

[polar tundra]

hello, i just learned how to use lists, tuples, sets, dictionnaries, i wonder what i should learn now ?

[slate wasp]

Is it suitable for python?

Tell me bishes

@gritty rivet u telling me the ans ?

[gritty rivet]

We don't know what country you are in but here where I am in the United States, CompTIA certs were very much worth the investment for me as someone who was trying to break in to IT support work at the entry level. The A+ got my foot in the door for my first job in the field, and the employer paid for my Net+ and Sec+. That in tern helped me get a much better job.

If you're looking to start out as a pentester right away, that sounds near-impossible to be honest. The PenTest+ might help you but I doubt it's enough

[daring moon]

what do you mean?

[gritty rivet]

No, I have no idea what your question is but it doesn't look related to this channel at all

[slate wasp]

Is this code suitable for python

[daring moon]

isnt

[slate wasp]

Dunno🤷

[ivory sluice]

it's not, please take it to #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[dense mesa]

My thinking is they see the "discussion" group of channels, and this one is at the top so they don't look further and just click

It doesn't help that #python-discussion is in the "lobby" group imo

[ivory sluice]

yes, it's been on my mind last year as well, we just do our best to keep it on track and fairly regularly purge messages when it's constant back and forth between off-topic messages and messages telling people to go to pygen/ot.

[noble tusk]

Thanks for explanation

[vapid jay]

hy

[glacial bronze]

consider a post-bacc, masters, or certificate if you arent tool savvy

[gaunt elbow]

anyone who has done a professional migration python -> C#?

[near ocean]

Do you have a question about careers?

[azure jungle]

yes how many years in college do i need to become a programmeur ?

[near ocean]

Depends on the college you go to

[azure jungle]

im going to John Abbott

[near ocean]

You should look up their courses and see how long they are, usually theyre 3-4years for a degree in CS

[azure jungle]

its a college in quebec (canada)

https://www.johnabbott.qc.ca/

?

lol

do you guys give courses by any chance ?

[near ocean]

!resources No, you can look through the resources here though

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[azure jungle]

ok that would be cool if you guys did . yall should add that in your servers

[near ocean]

No course the server offers would ever beat an accredited course by a college or uni

[smoky quest]

nope

[untold valve]

What are some career options for someone with a chemistry degree that wants to work with python?

I found cheminformatics, which was interesting

[tropic echo]

what would be a good coding career for some one like me thats does not like to do ui/ux at all

[near ocean]

What do you enjoy about python

[tropic echo]

its simplicity and wide range of application

i feel like theres a career where i can code logic but not worry about ui/ux

cuz iv learned im more of a logic coder than a ui/uux coder

if thats makes sense

[near ocean]

What kind of projects do you have finished/in progress

[sudden quartz]

I actually hate python but this is off topic

[honest pivot]

Honestly, you always have to think about user interfaces, whether that's directly with the user of the program, or at the level of the API that talks to other services, or at the level of how a class interface is designed to be used by other programmers.

[tropic echo]

i finshed a password generator, but in c#, only cuz when i tryed to do it in python, it worked fine but i tryed to do it with a gui, then realized how much i dont like gui stuff and worrying about how it looks

[tropic echo]

i get that, but i dont wanna make them tho

[honest pivot]

I also hate making GUIs, but not all user interfaces are graphical

[tropic echo]

u mean CLI?

im fine with CLI

[honest pivot]

I mean that's one example. But you also have to think about design decisions with a CLI. Like how do you anticipate users will want to use your code, what kinds of flags and options should they have that will actually make sense to them, etc. It's not easy.

[tropic echo]

i mean like i can code logic and someone else makes the gui, i think thats how it goes

[near ocean]

Dont TUIs need some sort of UI/UX thought put into them?

[tropic echo]

TUI?

[near ocean]

Text user interfaces, CLIs

[tropic echo]

have never heard of that

[limpid dagger]

After how many months do you think someone is job-ready if they study/practice 3 hours per day?

[tropic echo]

oh ok, ik they will have somethought, i geuss i dont want to deal with making sure it looks good, or the issues doing it crossplatform and things not looking how they suppose to

[near ocean]

Start applying straight away

[brittle jungle]

go onto the net - find , real world problems - that no one seems to solve - spend 6 months solving it - document it - use that to talk to main manager or owner --

it is that simple - solve real problems - then talk the talk

[brittle thorn]

I have a Chem degree too and worked as a software dev, web dev, researcher and done software in all roles. Data Science can be a good entry as well as scientific computing (had published a paper in a local Physics Journal that used Python in 2005) . My advice is to not restrict yourself to a computer language...I had worked with Python, Matlab, R, C#, JS, SQL and older languages like VB, FoxPro.... see whatever jobs are available and apply

[brittle jungle]

real managers and owners will get it

if i knew chem ... i have a few ideas

[peak halo]

where are you located, generally, if that's information that you're willing to divulge? In the US, self-study by itself is not, unfortunately, taken seriously by employers.

(take all advice in this channel with a teaspoon of salt.)

[summer roost]

also, how old are you? What job do you want?

[rustic badge]

so the only hope for self-taught developers is a bachelor's?

[summer roost]

if you're in the US and you have the option of a degree, getting a degree - at least an associate, if not a bachelor's - is a very, very good idea.

[rustic badge]

you think an associates hold any value though? Like say, from a community college?

[summer roost]

I think they're less valuable than a bachelor's, but much, much more valuable than self-taught with no degree.

[rustic badge]

Hmm. Interesting

I always thought an associates was seen as "useless" as not having a degree

[summer roost]

as someone who has been involved in the hiring pipeline, I'd weight an associates degree at maybe 60% of a bachelor's, maybe plus or minus 20%. That's less good than having a bachelor's, obviously - but it's far from worthless.

[rustic badge]

Be honest though.

Do you see any non-rare situation in which you hire a guy with an associate's? Especially given how BSc CS grads are being pumped out by the 100s per year?

[summer roost]

yeah, totally. I've hired people with no degree at all - but it really does depend on your situation. Once you've had a job for a couple of years, the degree you got is irrelevant. I'd sooner hire someone with 4 years of industry experience over someone with a BS degree but 0 years of industry experience. The trouble is, when you have no degree, it's really hard to get that initial experience. You're much more able to get that initial experience with an associates degree than with no degree at all.

if you've been in the industry for 15 years but you have no degree - totally fine by me. I know a ton of people by that description. But at this point, it's increasingly difficult to break in, so if you have 0 years of experience, any degree increases your chances of finding the first company that's willing to take a chance on you.

[rustic badge]

that's very reasonable

It's just that from what I've read "the taking a chance on you" part is generally very rare for Associate's holders due to what I mentioned above re: bsc grads

[summer roost]

yes and no... Like I said, it's way more likely that someone will take the chance on you if you have an assoicate degree than if you have no degree. They'd still prefer someone with a BS degree if they can find one.

[vast shoal]

You can try to improve your chances by adding other stuff to your CV, like your Github or, say, open source projects you've contributed to.

[opaque spade]

Does your opinion change if the applicant has a prior degree in engineering and a diploma/associates degree in computer science

[summer roost]

Yep, I weight that as high as or higher than a CS BS

[opaque spade]

Yeah because I’m in a little bit of a pickle. I want to pursue programming and I feel like my time is running out. At age 23, I will graduate with a Chemical engineering degree.

[summer roost]

Honestly, all of this is a bit subjective. It's not an exact science. I expect someone who has a CS BS to know nearly everything I expect a junior software developer to know. I expect someone who has a CS associates to know much of that, but not all of that. I expect someone who has an engineering degree to know a bit of that, but also to have other relevant experience that I can leverage.

[restive crescent]

hi

[opaque spade]

Hello

[restive crescent]

I am trying to learn hacking in kali any suggestion?

[summer roost]

don't.

It's not that those skills are useless, exactly - it's that those skills are hard to capitalize upon.

[summer roost]

You could stay in uni a year or two longer and get a CS degree as well.

[opaque spade]

Are you from the states?

[summer roost]

yep.

(and yeah, I realize "a year or two" of tuition is not insignificant)

[opaque spade]

Ok I’m from Canada. The school I got is the University of British Columbia. Have you heard of it?

[summer roost]

yes

[opaque spade]

How much do you weigh school prestige in the application filtering process?

[summer roost]

a little bit.

If I see someone from MIT and someone from University of Iowa, I'm more interested in the person from MIT. But, outside of very big name schools, it doesn't matter much. And I don't necessarily assume someone has skills just because they graduated from a prestigious school

[opaque spade]

I appreciate you answering these questions for me

Tbh I don’t know if I’m learning Python the correct way or the most effective way

[summer roost]

I don't know that there is a "most effective way". If you're making progress, that's all that matters.

more saliently, note that the CS majors you're competing against for entry level jobs most likely were introduced to at least 2 or 3 different programming languages.

[opaque spade]

In school, I’ve primarily used MATLAB, C, and r.

Over the course of my year long internship, I started watching a few Python videos just to grasp the basics. However, I’m well aware you don’t learn much without practice.

I’m Dec of 2021, I started developing a Discord bot for a video game I play. I had a goal in mind and researched various programming concepts to develop my bot. My discord bot currently has a few feature s. It reads data from a csv and outputs results. I’ve also utilized web scraping with bs4. The bot is modeled after a YouTuber (with 100k subs) and he actually contacted me to have the bot run in his server of 20k members. I definitely feel like this has been great for my first ever project.

However, my knowledge is definitely lacking as I don’t code on my computer but rather in the cloud using Replit. I also don’t know how to correctly debug. The way I’ve been debugging is playing around with parameters until something works. I also use Jupyter Notebook to test things out. Any questions I have I’ve always been able to find the solution in stack overflow.

I don’t know if I should take a beginner or intermediate level online Python course in the summer? Any suggestions

[summer roost]

I think that if you're interested in pursuing software development, taking the course is a good call.

sounds like intermediate is likely the level you're at - you don't necessarily know everything they teach in the "beginner" level, but you likely know enough to catch up on anything you've missed.

[opaque spade]

Now I have a few more questions.

I like coding things like Discord bots. Websites don’t really interest me too much. I like Data Science as well but I’ve done a fair bit of it in my degree.

What exactly should I be targeting?

software development, machine learning, front end/backend?

[summer roost]

Discord bots are kinda like microservices, I guess. Sounds like backend development is where your interest lies, especially if you're not interested in websites.

"software development" encompasses all the categories you named. You didn't give any info one way or the other that would suggest you're interested in machine learning or not.

[opaque spade]

I don’t really know what machine learning is tbh

[summer roost]

it's a relatively niche area, to be honest. It's a subset of AI that's focused on allowing the software to learn on its own.

neural networks are the best example of machine learning.

[buoyant seal]

correct word would be to say Backend Web Application 😉

[opaque spade]

Hmm I’ll watch a few videos on it

[vast shoal]

Discord bots?

[summer roost]

I'm not sure that's true.

Discord bots are HTTP based, but beyond that I wouldn't call them a "web application"

and that's pretty superficial.

[buoyant seal]

They have some frontendish part, so you can say they aren't pure backend. But their frontend is equally shitty to regular backend frameworks.

[vast shoal]

I think it's the "web" part that sounds weird about your statement.

[buoyant seal]

@vast shoal yeah, I see no difference between Discord Bots and Async Backend Web App

[opaque spade]

Another question,

I code mostly in the cloud (Replit and Juypter Notebook) simply due to convenience. Should I download PyCharm or VSC and start coding on my own computer? Does it really matter?

[near ocean]

Yes

[buoyant seal]

Forgive me, but... is Discord Bot hosted in server? Server.
Backend Applications when implement processing background tasks like Celery in python, has Workers that have no public interface? They have.
How would be Discord Bot different from Celery Worker?
Same Backendish Application in both cases

[buoyant seal]

Web is not meant strictly to be exposed via Browser.
We can make Backend App that has exposed frontend in mobile application, or desktop game

[vast shoal]

repl.it is a very limited IDE. I think you will start to prefer Pycharm or VSCode once you get used to them. It will provide you with a greater array of tools to help you with development. Jupyter is fine, but mainly for data science.

[summer roost]

Both run on the backend, but "web application" implies a frontend that runs in a browser to me, which Discord bots don't have

[summer roost]

We can. I wouldn't call that a web app.

[vast shoal]

You can make that case. It just sounds unusual to me. I'd call it a backend service, but web sounds easy to misinterpret.

[opaque spade]

What do you mean by limited? I haven’t run into any real issues so far.

[kind oar]

yeah your active time seemed weird for american, aussie makes more sense.

[vast shoal]

Well, you don't know what's out there. It's an unknown unknown for you.

But, I recommend you to try it. Are you using git?

[summer roost]

I agree. I see where they're coming from, but most people wouldn't call that a web app. It seems like a misapplication of the term to me.

[vast shoal]

At the very least, it might be misleading to a lot of people. I prefer to use more common and less ambiguous terms.

[buoyant seal]

however you call, it, but if we have Backend, it means we have Server Infrastructure to maintain
Which leads in industrial standards to Kubernetes / Monitoring / Logging and shit ton of other web systems with it
So we literally have 80% of the standard web development and infrastructure, just without regular frontend web.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, that's why I'd just leave out the word "web" from all of that.

[opaque spade]

I tried VSC a few months ago and kept running into errors with GitHub. Once I am happy with my bot, my goal is to transfer it to VSC. I guess one of the limitations of Replit is debugging.

[vast shoal]

I think you can debug with repl.it, but VSC or Pycharm supports more and better features.

[opaque spade]

Yeah but imo it’s not that useful

Maybe I just don’t know how to use it haha

[summer roost]

It would be productionized on a similar stack to a web app, yes. That doesn't make it a web app.

[kind oar]

to each their own, but usually the whole point of IDEs is coding inside of them, not just porting at the end.

but each have their own preference.

[vast shoal]

If you've never done it before, that's likely.

repl.it is pretty impressive for a web IDE, but even so, it's way behind compared to the others.

And you are limited to working on the VM they provide for you.

[kind oar]

I personally suggest that if the project is almost done, keep using repl then when you start a new project then start using vscode and stick to it so you can get over the learning curve.

[vast shoal]

I like using repl.it to show examples to other people.

[buoyant seal]

okay. Lets have it compromised to dementati version: Lets call Discord Bots as Backend Applications (without the web part)

[opaque spade]

Anyways one last question before I go to bed.

In MATLAB, there is a nice clean table that shows variable definition. Is there a way to bring up this table in Python?

[vast shoal]

It's nice that you can send a small project to someone else and they can run it and see exactly what happens, including file i/o and networking and the whole shebang.

[vast shoal]

You mean it lists all defined variables?

[vast shoal]

Ah, well, you can get something like that in a debugger

[summer roost]

You are very wrong.

[opaque spade]

Yeah I don’t know how to use it yet

[vast shoal]

When you break in debug mode, you will get a window that lists local variables and their values

[opaque spade]

In Replit?

[summer roost]

You could get something like that with:

import pprint
pprint.pprint(vars())

[vast shoal]

Hmmm, let's see

[opaque spade]

Hmm thanks I’ll save that one

[summer roost]

Understood. I'm just pointing out, IDEs and debuggers have a lot of value. You may not have found it yet, but it's there.

[kind oar]

how do you type so fast if you're on mobile?

[opaque spade]

Perfect thanks

[vast shoal]

And this is the same in every debugger

So you'll get a similar view in Pycharm or VSC when you run their debuggers

[summer roost]

Pretty recently someone was upset that they had lost their entire bot, that had been entirely in replit. That's not what replit is for, so at the very least you should be backing up your code.

[vast shoal]

I think they said they use github, which is good

If it's pushed to GH, you are very unlikely to ever lose it

[opaque spade]

Good to know thanks

[vast shoal]

Yeah, you should get in the habit of regularly making commits and pushing

So if your computer does catch fire, you'll only have to redo a few hours worth of work at most

[long peak]

hiii

[buoyant seal]

And then it will work nicely with having CI pipeline.... with having small commits and often automated integrations, you will see where you went wrong with notification to email right away
and small problem to fix in a small amount of code lines commit addition is much easier than big problems of multiple hundred code lines additions

[dire dagger]

Should i choose a career in embedded software engineer course?

[near ocean]

are you asking for a random yes or no?

[vast shoal]

Do you want to work as an embedded software engineer?

[dire dagger]

More like i want to know the day to day work of an embedded software engineer

[dire dagger]

tbh, i've done my undergraduation in electronics but i'm not really as much interested about devices, CRO, ICs and other stuff (sounds ironical)... till now i've been learning more about AI, ML & DL..
Here at my place there are good job opportunities as an embedded engineer..so i was thinking about it...

and wanted to know the experience of people who are working or have worked in this field

[vast shoal]

I'm not an embedded dev, but I have the impression it's pretty hardware-leaning. If you want to work with ML, you probably don't want to go that route.

[dire dagger]

I was watching a video that compares the differences

between soft engg & embedded soft engg

[brittle thorn]

You are probably young and have a long career ahead be flexible you could possibly do both in the long run

I had one arduino project and one tensorflow project then many other projects

[vapid jay]

I’m here trying to learn to code. Any links or advice for a beginner looking to find a career in python is helpful !

[vapid jay]

hi guys i am 15 years old and i am going to high school. In this process, I want to earn pocket money for myself by developing various applications using the python language. What would you suggest I do for this?

[crude folio]

Hi all, I've got a tech test interview on Thursday for a python infra role (CI, testing etc.)
What sort of questions / problems should I be researching??

[vapid jay]

hi everyone , i'm a fullstack developer and i want to work in remote there is anyone here can help me and explain how i should find a remote job ?

[gritty rivet]

These days it's not that different from applying to any other job. Look for job listings and apply. I don't know what country you are in but in here in the US I see plenty of remote jobs on Indeed, LinkedIn, etc.

[vapid jay]

my problem is where i live . i'm from iran and i don't know there is any firm that can hire iranian programmers and don't have problem with this issue .

[light radish]

Hi I am about to interview with a company and wanted to know if this position would be a good fit. I am an electrical engineer and self taught python programmer. I would say I am at an intermediate level of programming. This would be my first official python job.

`'Desired Skills and Experience *
3-6 years of Python scripting experience (enhancements and new builds)
Application support knowledge and experience
Ability to manage multiple tasks and requests, and ability to deliver quality results

Plusses
Salesforce knowledge
MuleSoft knowledge/experience
AWS experience

Day-to-Day *
An employer is looking for an Automation Support Engineer. This person will spend 50% of their time doing Python scripting for enhancements and new builds for automated tasks. The other 50% of their time will be spent providing productive support to internal users for automated tasks. The primary role of this position is to work on projects that will deliver new innovative solutions for our CRM implementations. The Engineer is responsible for the design, development, testing, deployment and ongoing support of the system to meet business requirements. The ability to connect with both business partners and technology professionals is a must.

You will be responsible for:
Production support with support rotation
Gather and analyze information in order to improve business systems and processes
Assist team with solving issues and collaborating closely with internal clients on incidents and service requests
Assist and/or coordinate user testing, ensuring issues are resolved in a pragmatic and appropriate manner
Assist design and implementation of ongoing support arrangements for delivered systems
Investigate third party vendors or systems when appropriate
Assist with developing improvements to team processes and procedures'`

[gritty rivet]

Yes, an Iran-specific forum would be the best place to ask then

[gritty rivet]

Seems like a stretch when they want 3-6 years, but no harm in applying. Just tweak your resume to fit as best you can. You can probably find a better fit but to some extent landing a job is a numbers game so you just have to apply for as many appropriate jobs as you can find and keep revising your strategy if you don't get traction

[light radish]

Well the recruiter reached out to me and said I would be a good fit, she asked some python screening questions which were very basic and I got them all correct. The only thing I worry about is that I may be the only python programmer in this company and might be expected to do a ton. Plus working with a bunch of business majors that don't have a clue about programming might be very difficult. Although I do just want to get my foot in the door.

[gritty rivet]

That's why I would again say just apply for as many relevant positions as you can. The hardest job to get is your first one in the field, so you pretty much want to take whatever you can get. If you apply for more positions, the better chance you'll have a better offer to choose from

If you get the offer and you don't have anything better in your immediate pipeline, I would say take it

[light radish]

Sounds good, yeah I have been applying to quite a few positions and have had 5-10 interviews. One specific job I made it to the last round, I passed all technical questions, interviews and in the end they said they wanted someone with more extensive python experience. Didn't make sense to me why they made me go through all those interviews when you knew I didnt have the experienced you wanted

[gritty rivet]

It's a painful process but at least you're getting traction. Hope it works out for you soon!

[smoky quest]

Obviously, if they knew at the time, they wouldn't have spent so many hours on their end either. It's not like employers love wasting their employees' time on interview :p
So that means that either they were on the fence with you or that they had other stronger candidates (not necessarily technically, but maybe more experience)

[light radish]

So I got an interview setup with this company, it's focused on automation. I will be on the only programmer in this group. In the interview is it appropriate to say I made a lot of automation scripts for games?

[smoky quest]

Sounds like it would help, wouldn't it?
Why would it be interpreted in a bad way?

[light radish]

Not sure, again the interview will be with 3 business majors who prob have no clue about programming. Its an investment management company

[smoky quest]

So what would be the take away from their point?

• to demonstrate interest in the area?
• demonstrate mastery?
• demonstrate some value generated?
• other?

[summer roost]

They probably do have some knowledge about video games, so it could be a good way to talk about programming in an accessible way.

[light radish]

I would say they would want me to demonstrate mastery and results generated

[smoky quest]

so then, try to articulate their complexity or their impact in a way they can understand?

[light radish]

Will do, thanks

[warm thorn]

sup people
i got (x, y) values of multiple pixels on an 1920x1080 screen, but now, I want to convert the pixel values so that they're compatiable with a 1366x768 screen
does anyone know how to do so?

[frozen flame]

Hey when would a programmer be ready to start looking for an internship or some basic work in an organization? I know it's subjective but I'm stuck on this point having done like a year of java and python classes and not knowing if I'm ready to start looking or keep learning and try later.

[true harness]

you can start looking whenever. how will you know what's required if you don't look at the job requirements

[frozen flame]

True indeed, thank you! I guess it does in fact depend on the specific place I'm looking at.

[gritty rivet]

Yes, and don't be afraid to shoot for the moon if a job really looks good to you... It doesn't matter if it says 3+ years of experience if you feel you have at least half of what they are looking for it doesn't hurt to apply. If they call you in for an interview it suggests they see something in your resume, and even if you bomb it you are bound to learn something useful from the process

[light radish]

I can tell you the market is very very hot right now. I am in the similar boat as you. As soon as I changed my linkedin to open for work my mailbox was flooding with recruiters

[honest pivot]

How do you know if that setting is properly hidden from your current employer? haha

[crude folio]

Hi all, I've got a tech test interview on Thursday for a python infra role (CI, testing etc.)
What sort of questions / problems should I be researching??

[gritty rivet]

To some extent you know better than anyone here because you've seen the job description and we haven't :) There are lots of lists of top interview questions on any given topic all over the web, so I would go through those keywords and see what you find

[frozen flame]

Ahh very cool - so you're looking at an internship/beginner level and having a bunch of responses? Sounds great definitely gonna try that, thank you!

[frozen flame]

Ahh ok - I think that brings up one of my kind of points of confusion in that I only really have class work for my projects - should I start making up my own projects and getting them on GitHub so I can showcase what I can do? Thanks much for reply, really appreciate the encouragement!

[light radish]

It only shows that to recruiters, I mean there is a possibility that a recruiter from my company can search me up and see it but frankly they can't do anything about it.

[light radish]

By degree I am an electrical engineer. What I did was I started applying python at my current role. Did some basic data analysis/plotting/excel automation and put it on my resume. With jargon and BS I made it look very nice. I also started working on projects at home such as webscraping/automation/GUI apps/Gaming scripts/etc and put those on my resume. Again it is all about how you word it.

[gritty rivet]

It's best to have personal projects, for sure, but for now sharing coursework is better than nothing. Whatever you can do to effectively demonstrate what you really know

[honest pivot]

Hmm...I see it on friends' accounts, and I'm not a recruiter. So I'm not sure whether to trust it.

[light radish]

There is a setting I am pretty sure where only linkedin recruiters can see it

[honest pivot]

I see. Still, we're a very small company and our internal recruiter is on LinkedIn constantly

[marsh wind]

I believe that whatever setting is, your company won't see that. So for them to know some outside recruiter should tell yours

[opaque spade]

How often do you guys use concepts from Linear Algebra? Is it used a lot in software development?

[dense mesa]

My role is basically just implementing linear algebra, but that's also because I'm creating educational solutions to teach students about AI/optimisation problems

[honest pivot]

I do almost entirely linear algebra.

[summer roost]

I've never needed linear algebra professionally.

Some types of programming need it a lot (graphics and machine learning, off the top of my head), other types don't need it at all.

[digital fjord]

I've mostly used linear algebra as convenient syntax sugar for basic arithmetic

[rough scarab]

Hi guys, where to get some beginning gigs for some $? Is there any Discord / page for this?

[dense mesa]

What do you use, and what do you use it for?

[gritty rivet]

You can try platforms like UpWork or Fiverr. Expect to bid very, very low at first until you have good reviews and a strong portfolio

[tawny oar]

hi anyone here is a Product manager handling Machine leraning/AI products?

currently aiming for the roles, wondering if I could get some awareness about the roles here

[vapid jay]

Im really into coding, and know a good bit about python, does anyone know what i should be learning to be somewhat successful later

I pretty much know a little of everything, js, sql, ?php, html-css-js. ( I would say python is my main language )

[summer roost]

how old are you?

[vapid jay]

15

[summer roost]

keep learning a little bit of everything. Building a broad base is useful, and it'll let you figure out what you do and don't enjoy, for doing deeper dives later.

[vapid jay]

I really enjoy the concept of bug hunting and similar stuff, but cant seem to get into it or start

[terse lodge]

Maybe start learning a little bit of C, C# or C++?

[summer roost]

I'd say C or Rust would be really interesting languages to try out.

[vapid jay]

Yes Ive looked at C

Ive also just started learning pandas in python

I havent learned much except forming dataframes, series, opening csv and json files, and a little bit of cleaning/managing

[terse lodge]

Did you look upon Tenserflow?

[vapid jay]

I have not, ive seen a website mention it but never read or used it

[terse lodge]

You can look deeper into it

[vapid jay]

42

I will

some days I feel so depleted at work.. how do y'all manage

Work is not work; tis a hobby.

[vapid jay]

24/7 coffee

thanks bro

np 👍

Why are you getting burnt out @vapid jay

lots of projects.. people always following up on me across timezones

my eyes are twitching lol..

Can you delegate?

[stiff latch]

would anyone care to express their opinions on "functional programming" and its future? I've been watching vids and reading articles on the topic, I'd like to hear frank and honest stuff -- you know, give me big, steaming piles of shit = )

[vapid jay]

What do you mean by that Vicious?

I write functions. I also write methods if those functions are constrained within a class?

[stiff latch]

well you know, the whole 'functional programming' paradigm as opposed to procedural, imperative, object-oriented...

[vapid jay]

Hmm.

Python is objectified, fwiw.

[lucid vapor]

It's definitely interesting

I've been playing with it a bit

[stiff latch]

do you think it's the big thing of the future?

[lucid vapor]

I want you to take a guess

when do you think this became a thing

[vapid jay]

I dont know about the future

[lucid vapor]

functional programming, that is

[vapid jay]

but we use it extensively in data engineering.. fk I keep forgetting the time lag between chats

[stiff latch]

I must confess that I am very easily impressed and a good presentation or article ALWAYS immediately convinces me, so after spending 2 days reading and watching videos about this stuff I feel, right now, that IT'S DA FUTURE

[lucid vapor]

FP has been around for a while (over 60 years, at least)

At least, Lisp has

[lucid vapor]

Then you should go try to learn a functional language

Oh wait, this is career discussion, woops

[stiff latch]

well yes I am wondering if any of you have any opinions on FP and how many people will be doing it professionally in the future

i mean, do you think more and more people and institutions will basically switch to it in serious terms

will it gradually become the principal programming practice

[sudden quartz]

Is 'i never joke' a meme or something? Why not

Functional Programming is being called the future? Now ive seen everything

[pine wigeon]

I have been working at a startup company since late last year and in that brief time have learned a lot and even contributed code that is going into production. I have no prior work experience so the tasks assigned to me aren't anything too impressive and as such I wanted to know what you all think is the best way for me to update my resume so that I open myself to be reached out by recruiters more often preferably at bigger organizations (that pay more). How do I highlight my impact on the business at large and convey that I am able to pick up new things quickly including languages and technologies? Also how do you suggest I go about updating my "accomplishments" as time goes on and I am given more impactful tasks?

[sudden quartz]

it sounds like youre in a really comfortable position to just normally update your resume with features youve implemented.

[weak minnow]

Exactly

[summer roost]

What have you built? How have you measured its success? What business value did it have (that is, why did they want you to build it)?

Broadly, those are the questions you should be answering in your experience section of your resume

[vapid jay]

hey, so i am a young teen and i want to start learning code and i have a laptop, so i can do code for sure. so if anyone would help me, that would be great (i have divorced parents, so sometimes i cant do code, but im trying to remember to bring my laptop with me) i will probably respond tommorow

[dapper depot]

!resources
hey, you can check these out to find some learning resources to start

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

thank you!