career-advice

[cerulean fulcrum]

But I have no idea why it failed. I don’t know if I was just following the tutorial or what. I was doing some research on quora and sites saying you need to understand higher level mathematics

[smoky quest]

so what's the question? Because we are in #career-advice , so I am assuming there is a career angle?

[brittle thorn]

Good idea or actually try a startup

[graceful sundial]

Also @gritty rivet thanks a lot on the recs, not a huge fan of fiverr but really liking Upwork, think I’ll be churning out some cash from that before the weeks over, already looking like I’ll be writing up a script for reading a csv file with python modules and installing said modules, listing just wanted the list installed trying to upswell the script to them for repeatability purposes and just because I’m not trying to do that manually

Yes but startups are a lot of work and dedication and capital

[smoky quest]

startups do not require a lot of capital

[graceful sundial]

Well full honestly my uncle recommended I jump the gun asap on it because the earlier your on the books the more the entity exists and that can have tax and grant benefits

And I mostly wanted it for writing up losses so I can skip out on taxes like our billionaire friends do

Minus Elon he pays his dues

Also @gritty rivet might be building a gui for someone else that seems to be using opencv for object recognition, and straying away from the sacred python to tutor a first year college student in C++, I will lead him into the code light

[smoky quest]

so what about me who is using opencv in java?

[sudden quartz]

The funny thing is that a Bachelors in CS is better for SWE roles than a Masters in CS. Unless your focus is SWE there is no way youre a better applicant, lol.

[smoky quest]

I hardly doubt that's the case though

[sudden quartz]

Why?

[smoky quest]

The rule still applies: BS <<< MS <<< phd

[graceful sundial]

Have honestly never heard of opencv in Java

[frozen gate]

I think ML/AI positions want grad school but that’s the only specialized position I can think of that does

[brittle thorn]

It depends, I had a library database conversion service that I ran for 9 years solo no capital and very profitable

[smoky quest]

MS students can go deeper and more abstract. You can throw a lot more problems at them

[graceful sundial]

Always heard c/c++ or python

[sudden quartz]

That rule is stupid.

[smoky quest]

best time to look at it!

[pulsar drum]

How does having more education make one a worse applicant? Two applicants go through the same BS CS degree, but one continues to masters. You're saying the masters student is worse?

[graceful sundial]

But the python is just wrappers to the c anyway so not surprised

[smoky quest]

That's a very unsurprising rule. The more educated you are, the more things you know and can handle

[frozen gate]

PhD is overly specialized for most things but if you want to teach and research it could help maybe

[graceful sundial]

Ability to cater to the language of preference

[smoky quest]

and in english?

[brittle thorn]

Yes and much harder research topics

[graceful sundial]

More education more you can expect to be paid

[sudden quartz]

The premise here is that the person didnt get a bachelors in CS.

[frozen gate]

O.o at the med student who was here earlier

[graceful sundial]

Company perspective more liability cost wise and more likely for turnover for a better role somewhere else

[brittle thorn]

True and dont discount self learning too ...learn even if you arent in school

[smoky quest]

In the abstract, anything is possible. In practice, no one is gonna take 2-3 years to study full time or whatever part time equivalent

[ivory sluice]

huh? can you clarify what you are describing

[graceful sundial]

You are a ms applying for a role that could be suitably fulfilled by someone with a bs

[sudden quartz]

I have shared classes with graduate CS students. Lets just say, there is no real reason for a MSCS to be payed more than a BSCS. You can preach the ideal but the truth is that its total BS. MSCS transitioners will be better than the worst BSCS and thats about it

[smoky quest]

This is not about ideals. That's what you can see every day in interviews and real life tasks in real jobs by real people

[graceful sundial]

I would rather hired the bs who is reaching, can grow into the role, I can lowball a salary on, and is less likely than the ms to find a new role within three years

[sudden quartz]

Give me my honorary Master degree then

[smoky quest]

I don't see why you would have earned it. That's also highly off topic

[ivory sluice]

you'll be very unlikely to retain any workforce with that mindset but ok

[frozen gate]

MSCS has higher salary on average than BSCS, Masters in accounting is about the same for BBA in accounting (because it’s just to fulfill cpa requirements) for contrast

[smoky quest]

MSCS do also climb faster the ladder

Also starting salaries are higher for MSCS and even higher for phd

[graceful sundial]

I disagree I’d be likely to retain the workers who were capable of fulfilling the role and it’s responsibilities while also feeling indebted that I gave them a chance than the workers who felt they deserved the role and feel underpaid because they were overqualified

[sudden quartz]

Because its a higher level degree. People dont think for themselves and just give them more money. Although its true some MSCS that arent transitioners are generally just good to do what they do

[smoky quest]

it looks like we are constructing very specific scenario there. You can have very motivated engineers regardless of their level of education

[graceful sundial]

Absolutely

[smoky quest]

what makes you think people don't think for themselves?

[sudden quartz]

Im making the statement that most BSCS can do more than a MSCS transitioner can do

[graceful sundial]

Even the bs will likely leave if they’re motivated and continue to develop past whatever role they are in

[smoky quest]

that seems to depend a lot more on the mscs transitioner and their background, wouldn't it?

[graceful sundial]

The ms I just think will typically leave sooner because they can get a higher paid somewhere else and if they got a ms are probably well motivated

[smoky quest]

why aren't you in a place which can afford to pay their employees decently?

[graceful sundial]

Unless the ms is already overpaid

Can afford and want to afford are different and I’m talking an ideal and theoretical capitalist company

[smoky quest]

I kind of lump them together. If they aren't willing to pay market rate, then they will build their business around that. But that will also trickle down across the whole org

[graceful sundial]

Yeah I agree with that

I’m not trying to say don’t pay the bs their fair share

I’m saying if a bs will do why pay for the ms

[smoky quest]

There are actually tons of things related to how you engineer your culture and team.
What they do today may be different from what they do in 2 years.

But I do have a bias towards innovation rather than old school companies

[graceful sundial]

Eh I was taught in regards to hardware optimize only account for what you need

[smoky quest]

You don't optimize hardware the same way you create a high performing team

[graceful sundial]

Fair point

[smoky quest]

Just as an example, people don't want to be the smartest person in the room. So if your team mates are "weak", you have little incentive to stay

So you want to create a culture of excellence, among other things

(fyi, it doesn't mean I consider BS people as weak, I meant it in general)

[brittle thorn]

Its the motivation and the job and culture fit that is important. Hire so that the engineers are challenged to grow which may mean not putting someone senior or with an advanced degree do something boring...that is better to be done by a junior engineer

[sudden quartz]

Transitoner MSCS do not necessarily involve "higher level CS". BSCS is like an arts degree in the field. You have a lot of broad knowledge in an increasingly broad field. MSCS is just a research degree, but a lot of BSCS do research work already. You essentially have no value to hold to any BSCS who didnt waste their time or have a bad program. The MSCS transitoner has less potential and value than the BSCS. Its just a piece of paper for credentials, and it gives value to you, but you are not of any greater value in CS. But of course do what you need to do for your goals

[summer roost]

But you've just said that they're different things. If BSCS is broad knowledge and MSCS is specific research, doesn't that imply that someone who has completed an MSCS has picked up knowledge specific to some subdomain of CS that a BSCS wouldn't have?

[sudden quartz]

This is the case where the MSCS was specialized. Those are always good... But I was referring to a general MSCS for a transitioner

[summer roost]

is "general MSCS" a thing?

[smoky quest]

also I can give you some concrete example in some unnamed country in Europe:

• BS are for the code monkeys in the projects. They learn the broad strokes. Their job is to write code, not think
• MS are for the people managing the projects and devs on it. Most folks with a MS may actually manage teams within a year. Their classes also go much deeper and broader (marketing, sales, communication, etc.)

That's also very different from the US view where MS is also a lot more technical but less limiting for the BS

[brittle thorn]

I have seen a Masters in Engineering open for all engineers ...was a bridge program

[smoky quest]

Anything "transition" is very much dependent on the cost function between where the person comes from and CS

[frozen gate]

MS as you said would be covered by MIS or a MBA degrees

[summer roost]

MS CS in my experience covers many of the core BS CS courses in greater detail, and also involves drilling down into some specialty.

at least, in the US.

[frozen gate]

For career switchers you usually can’t go straight into a MSCS either, you have to show aptitude first through bridge courses and whatnot

[summer roost]

indeed, unless their BS was in some closely related field

[uncut bloom]

Hey there,
Job descreption, what do you think what does NO Java means? 😄
Technical:

• Matlab
• Embedded Coder
• NO Java
• Python for ADAS functions

[near ocean]

it means they dont use Java?

[brittle thorn]

Sound fun lol...

[near ocean]

or that you shouldnt expect any Java experience to mean anything for this particular posting

[uncut bloom]

maybe,

[brittle thorn]

Maybe they dont like java lol

[uncut bloom]

because there is no tech that called 'NO java' like Number oriented java or idk 😄

[brittle thorn]

I have tried Matlab its fun like Python

[uncut bloom]

I am an embedded develeloper with micropython focus. I didn't want to change that

[brittle thorn]

Embedded can also mean Arduino C...yeah micropython cool

[uncut bloom]

I prefer micropython 🙂

[brittle thorn]

I think no java is a plus.. i had seen my fair share of java in prod ...

[uncut bloom]

oh, I see, maybe that is why it is pointed out in the descreption

[brittle thorn]

Last embedded project I had used Arduino C ...yeah might use micropython in the future

It is a good gig go get it...seems to check embedded and techy boxes...Matlab and Python

No java is a plus if it is true lol

[near ocean]

The quickest and surest way to find out is to ask why its listed

[dense mesa]

I was considering doing this in the UK as a sole trader

[vast shoal]

Sounds like a joke

[brisk trench]

Just wondering. Lets say that I wanted to sell a valuable piece of software to Apple, for example. How could I approach them? Yes, I know you could do it by email, but I got a feeling they would just ignore you.

[digital fjord]

email tends to be best, that's afaik how most salesmen approach selling to companies.

[livid moat]

hi

[vapid jay]

I am new in programming, does anyone suggest good resources to learn python?

[dense mesa]

This is a channel for career discussion, ask in #python-discussion and someone will point you to the resources list

[brittle thorn]

Lol it is a low probability thing... and tends to go unread by busy execs

[digital fjord]

there is a reason being a salesperson is a full time job. But yeah, IDK how likely would selling straight to big orgs be.

[jolly ledge]

where should i spend more time learning new things or practicing old

[austere copper]

Hello, I was wondering if Django itself is a good framework for Full stack development? FYI, I am good with Django rest framework, so shall I go with react and DRF?

[placid shadow]

Any engineers in here that regularly deal with AWS? I have a question

[native narwhal]

Hey guises anyone of you ever been employed as a Swift developer (iOS)? professionally
I know its bad for me to slap this question in a Python server

But I have no one to ask cuz the iOS servers are ded

[vapid jay]

Is data science a good career?

[native narwhal]

Anything including data science is a good career if you are very good at your job and that makes you desirable

[vapid jay]

Or I mean who's better a data scientist or a full stack Web dev

[native narwhal]

depends how well you do at either of those

[vapid jay]

Thanks alot!!

@native narwhal mind if I dm?

[native narwhal]

sure you can DM

[native leaf]

hey all, could anyone take the time to answer how to earn money on upwork with python?

[stray meadow]

What is it better now, to go to the game development or web development?

[near ocean]

In terms of a career with python? Definitely web development

[vast shoal]

More people want to break into gamedev, so there is more competition which pushes salaries and working conditions down.

There's less demand in the first place as well, I suppose.

[frozen gate]

Programming some insurance company’s form on their website may not be what you dreamed of as a child but the hours and pay are better

[rustic badge]

thats the golden nugget dysphere

breaking into markets that most programmers find "boring"

[compact swallow]

Hours yes, pay no. It's a lot easier to get jobs there too.

[jade siren]

idk if it is just me but bc i am a 13 year old who is quite a beginner at python and JS should i be worried that i wont be good enough or am i just stressing for no reason

bc there is going to be quite a big competition in the future

[gritty rivet]

I agree with Aurimus, you have nothing to worry about right now! Keep exploring and learning what ever interests you and the rest will work out when the time comes. When you get to high school you can start planning for how to get in to a good university but right now just keep exploring and finding out what you enjoy

[jade siren]

thx for the help @dense plinth @gritty rivet

[glass osprey]

#help-coconut

i have a career question in here if people could help me clarify would greatly appreciate it preferagbly with data science or ml experience

[tawdry verge]

Hey all I have a question 🙋‍♀️

[sudden quartz]

youre asking to ask. the answer is yes.

[tawdry verge]

Actually I am new to python word or let’s say programming.I feel like I don’t know what I am doing lmao it feels kinda low key as if I am in Mars understanding nothing and feeling like a loser 😦 what would be your advice to me ?

[summer roost]

That doesn't seem career related, so you'll probably get better answers in #python-discussion

Suffice to say that programming requires you to think very differently than you're used to, and doesn't come naturally to anyone. And everyone learns at different rates

[tawdry verge]

Alrighty 💕

[warm trout]

lol

fuck

i wonder why you guys have carreer

anyways u guys are noob

[vapid jay]

what is ur problem?

[vast shoal]

!warn 910546092620390430 As per our code of conduct, be respectful to other users.

[inner wren]

:x: The user doesn't appear to be on the server.

[vapid jay]

what do you mean?

it sounds like coca-NUT

[near ocean]

bruh just stop, read the channel description and stick to the topic of python related career discussion

[analog steppe]

hi

I'm a python developer for around 2 years, with experience in data scraping and automation

problem is, I've no degrees
can you guys help me
What can I do now(to get a job or something like that)

[near ocean]

if you've been a developer for 2 years already why do you want a degree now? degrees are usually used to break into the field, once you have experience theyre pretty much useless

[analog steppe]

But I've nothing for proof, except some complicated projects I've done

[near ocean]

you're not working as a python developer?

[analog steppe]

great

I think, working on or creating open source projects may help too

[stray meadow]

Thank you for your point of view

[muted kraken]

Once I had an interview, would it mean anything or make any real difference if I followed it up and email the Hiring Team asking for feedback? Let's say if there were some parts during the interview where I didn't provide a strong answer for a particular question, is it necessary that I should clarify it on the message??

[sudden quartz]

so you have no job? best thing to do is to work for a company that funds your degree, it will become a hurdle eventually

[hardy dove]

^ yeah don't click this, scat porn

[sudden quartz]

dont try to make your performance better, i dont have info on clarification on your performance

[muted kraken]

What do you exactly mean by my performance? During the interview I think I had answered some technical questions quite correctly, however some of the other answers I gave to the interviewers were not really concise, I do have to admit that.

[shadow moss]

Likely not.

[young shuttle]

As someone who interviews candidates a lot, it's not usually about answering everything. There are some core topics you need to answer. e.g. if you're in a web shop you need to be able to answer about REST and so on. The rest is to see what you know and how you deal with situations where you don't know answers. How do you work through a problem, what's your candor, do you get standoffish, do you generate a bunch of interesting ideas, do you explain your ideas well.

With regard to mailing HR, it's good for your feedback and also good to show your seriousness. But do it for real, not just to bother people. I hate writing that kind of feedback especially to someone who didn't pass. If it's just being treated as a box ticking exercise I'll become rather upset.

[shadow moss]

Could it have negative impact? Quite possibly depending on the person mood and if they feel you are buttering them up or checking boxes.

[young shuttle]

sure, everything is context dependent.

and im just explaining how i am as an interviewer. maybe others just go in with a question sheet and tally up the correct answers and move onto the next thing in their life

[shadow moss]

My recommendation is you don’t. Follow up with HR later if you don’t hear from them for a few weeks.

[young shuttle]

id give it 7-8 days. few weeks is pretty long in the hiring cycle imo

[shadow moss]

Depends on the company and where you were in interview lineup but yea 7-8 business days are fine.

[muted kraken]

I haven't really got any contact details from the HR but the hiring team have told me that they'd let me know whether I passed the interview and if I'm through to the next stage in 3-4 days time via email

[muted kraken]

tbh I do not want to give them bad impression and butter things up nor sugar-coat any answers on this follow-up email.. but I feel like if I send something about the answers, they might think that I'm trying to get in their "good books" 😦

[near ocean]

i wouldnt follow up about the interview, it shows weakness imho and i'd rather not be shown that way to interviewers and hiring managers
following up about the outcome of the interview is ok, dont rush it though, people are busy and might not be able to get back to you right away, i would give up to a week

[novel remnant]

can someone help me deploy my django project please

[near ocean]

not the appropriate channel for this

[sour mist]

is github improtant to learn??
like, i'm 14 trying to make a future cause school aint going well.
and someone said github is important to learn for the future

[near ocean]

Github not so important
git, very important, probably the most important piece of technology you will ever learn

[sour mist]

whats the difference tho??

[near ocean]

Git is the software to do version control, github is a host for different projects that use git

[vapid jay]

How would I go about getting into cybersecurity.ive tried doing tryhackme,ctftime online but it just seems to be going over my head

[vapid jay]

Yo same thing

[buoyant seal]

Github / Gitlab / Bitbucket and e.t.c. are cloud versions of git
From the standing of using Client tools, we use same Git in any provider, same graphical tools if needed.

Difference only in additional cloud Server side features the providers provide.
For example they have different CI/CD tool syntax
Gitlab provides docker registry, terraform state storage and multiple other additional features, while GIthub / Bitbucket provide alternative similar features, but still with different approaches /documentations how to use them

[cerulean owl]

My career is about drive

Also about power

So we stay hunger because of tax evasion

[buoyant seal]

almost like music lyrics

[cerulean owl]

wha??

Totally not, bruh

Read my messages

My career is about drive
"Career"

[buoyant seal]

https://youtu.be/oppiTJyUlyo

[summer roost]

I'd say that it's OK to ask for feedback, but not to be surprised if you don't get anything actionable. I wouldn't even ask until after they've given you a decision, to try to avoid the appearance of trying to sway their decision.

[cerulean owl]

Totally not

[versed talon]

Hello guys! I just wanted to ask if an online degree is actually worth it and if it will actually act like a normal degree?

[plucky latch]

Don't think so

[sour mist]

i mean.. its helps alot with experience, i think

[summer roost]

If it's an actual degree from an accredited institution, then it seems fine to me. Lots of universities are entirely or partially online these days anyway, so I expect this to make less of a difference in the coming years. I'd do some research on the particular institution you're thinking about getting the degree from, and see whether they're accredited, and whether or not they have a good reputation

[versed talon]

So basically if they are accredited and have a good reputation, the degree will hold the same weightage compared to an actual degree?

[versed talon]

Why is that? If you mind answering

[near ocean]

If theyre accredited and with a reputation it will be an actual degree

[dense mesa]

It won't necessarily hold the same weight

[versed talon]

Yeah right! But just trying to contrast it with a degree achieved through the traditional way

[smoky quest]

No one knows personally each school. That's why the actual degrees serve as a standard. If you don't have the actual degree, then all bets are off

[near ocean]

Ideally you should find a school that offers identical curriculum for in person and online degrees

Why are you thinking of an online degree in the first place?

[gilded valley]

A degree from the Open University in the UK is just a normal bachelors - employers will value it as lower than a degree from Cambridge/Harvard/ETH but higher than a degree from Northampton/other-poorly-rated-university. The same is almost certainly true for other universities that offer remote learning abroad. A "degree" from EdX or somewhere will not hold near the same weight, because there is much less confidence in an accrediting body that isn't a university

[versed talon]

But the way things are progressing and considering how online stuff have gained recognition during the pandemic years, why is it that an online degree is still not given much recognition as compared to an offline?

[smoky quest]

Because if it's that comparable, then why isn't it the real thing?

[plucky latch]

Seems to be a first pass filter for juniors, from what I can tell

It's easy just to toss out everyone who doesnt have a BSc or whatever

[versed talon]

Oh well, just a question and a part of my research on random stuff

[versed talon]

So if I get an online degree from a recognised university, I believe many universities are slowly offering online courses, it's gonna be the same compared to an actual degree

[versed talon]

Makes sense but isn't it about knowledge more? Like you are basically learning the same thing, right? But in a different manner

[glacial bronze]

Anyone have any tips on entering the industry? For example say you have a job lined up for when you graduate in Java web app dev SWE, but mabye you want to do embedded or AI, or something else. Should you decline or is the immediate job experience too good to pass on? Like it wont hurt my chances in another realm of SWE or software jobs right? For example digital forensics or data science

[smoky quest]

You can't know if you are learning the same thing because it's a random cursus that would not be accreditated and verified.
The point of bs/ms/etc. is to provide a standard that is enforced. So more or less, you know what you get out of it.
Without it, I could deliver my random degree of Awesome Recursive's CS school where employers wouldn't know what you are taught there, unless they specifically go check it out, which they don't have time for.

So in a sense, BS/MS/etc. do not guarantee the best outcome, but they do guarantee the minimum outcome

[gilded valley]

yes - it will just be an actual degree, not just the same as an actual degree

[smoky quest]

Remember that as an interviewer, I may receive hundreds of applications for a single job. That's a lot of people and not much time to dig into each one at the initial stages

[versed talon]

I was trying to refer to a degree earned by offline manner. So it would basically be the same

[versed talon]

But what if i get it from a well known University? Now they know what I learnt, right?

[versed talon]

I get it

[summer roost]

The point of the degree is to certify that you learned what you were taught. The point of accreditation is to certify that the institution is teaching what everyone else is teaching, and can be trusted to accurately report whether you learned what you were taught.

[smoky quest]

I won't give a shit and I won't check.
Because on your resume, it will say "BS from Well Known University", not "Online BS from Well Known University"

[gilded valley]

yes

[smoky quest]

If they start talking about some funny things about how technically you can't use "BS from University", then it strongly smells of a scam and I would gtfo

[smoky quest]

There are two different aspects:

• What you want to do in the future and how the current job aligns with your goals.
• The current contract you have signed. You should review it and act professionally. If you aren't gonna join, you should let them know sooner than later as there could be material impact and burn a lot more bridges

[versed talon]

So in short, online degree for CS is a big no no

[smoky quest]

it only depends if they deliver a BS/MS.
Whether they are online or not is irrelevant to that aspect

[compact swallow]

No, just make sure it's an accredited, reputable university

[smoky quest]

If you find an online school that delivers an official BS, then no one will care

There are aspects for which I think a fully online degree may not be preferable to being at least partially onsite, but this has more to do with general education than the value of the degree. And that would not appear on the resume anyway

[versed talon]

So if i get the BS from let's say, University of London, it should definitely work

[smoky quest]

As long as it's a bachelor's degree, yeah

[versed talon]

It's just that I am kinda sleepy and skipping on a lot of details, please don't mind

[versed talon]

Great!

[summer roost]

Being at least partially on site would be better: the experience would be more immersive, you would form deeper relationships that would go on to form the start of your professional network, and so on. But that's all value add on top of the degree.

[near ocean]

You cant network as effectively online, no matter how much zoomers whine about the metaverse
Sometimes you just gotta shake someone's hand

[dense mesa]

Are you looking at uni of London for their online degree?

[compact swallow]

Yeah, the way I see it, no degree <<<<< online degree < in person/partly in person degree. So if you're in a position where an online degree would be a lot more convenient, go for it. But if it doesn't matter that much, go for in person.

[gilded valley]

a degree being in person or remote makes no difference - the relative prestige of the university and the degree is what matters

[wild bay]

What's the purpose of whiteboard interviews/algorithmic challenges/etc in software engineering interviews?

[smoky quest]

to assess your skills, knowledge and how you think about things

[smoky quest]

It does though:

• Missing out on the student life / parties / transition to adult life
• Missing out on connecting with fellow students and building out your very first professional network. It doesn't sound relevant initially but you will realize >3-5 years later how much difference it can make
• Missing out on chance discussions with teachers, staff, students
• Too many incentives to not connect and not participate and being passive

[gilded valley]

by no difference I mean with respect to the employability, not as a life choice to make

[buoyant seal]

Networking affects employability
(Linkedin)

[smoky quest]

having a poor professional network does reduce your employability by quite a bit

[gilded valley]

networking makes it easier to find a job, it doesn't necessarily make an employer any more/less willing to employ you

[buoyant seal]

U a wrong

Good connections make employers more willing to hire you.

In some companies recommendation is just necessary to get interview as a first step

[smoky quest]

Note also they wouldn't know you exist without that connection 😉

[gilded valley]

In some companies recommendation is just necessary to get interview
Note also they wouldn't know you exist without that connection 😉
that's finding a job

[compact swallow]

Idk, you get a lot more employable once you have job experience, which requires finding a job

[smoky quest]

that's a very limited view of one's career though.
Employability is not just writing code behind a screen. There are tons of social aspects, which you may be missing without some practice.
That's even a recurring topic I hear in companies as it is a lot more difficult to create cohesive teams without deliberate "social time"

[near ocean]

I would separate being visible to employers from being attractive to employers
And if a hiring manager discriminates against you because of your network, do you really want to work there?

[smoky quest]

you don't get discriminated. You just don't even surface at all

[near ocean]

Thats a separate issue

[smoky quest]

That's the same thing. No one is gonna care about your network or discriminate because a lack of it

The professional network however does create and multiply opportunities

[near ocean]

Then this is false

[smoky quest]

why is so?
It's not a zero sum game

Giving Darkwind more lottery tickets does not remove any lottery tickets from your hand

[near ocean]

Because an employer shouldnt and wouldnt care about the size of your linkedin network

Good connections make you more visible not more employable

[smoky quest]

that's a lot more subtle though. It can be a lot like page rank. Someone you do recommend would hold a lot more weight than some random person

[compact swallow]

Regardless of the definition of "employable", finding your first job is still very important, and it's easier with more connections.

[storm obsidian]

How long does it take to learn python to land your first basic job ?

[gritty rivet]

There's really no meaningful answer to this, as it depends on the person, the job, etc. Are you starting from zero or do you have other relevant skills, how many hours per week do you have to learn, etc.

Figure out what kind of job you want, what skills you need, develop a plan to acquire those skills. If your plan doesn't work out, re-evaluate and re-iterate until you get where you need to be

All of that said, maybe plan on the scale of something like 6 months initially, which is very achievable for some people but impossibly ambitious for many

[modest fractal]

I know we hire from bootcamps... however long those are.. 3-6 months?

[dense mesa]

Is this the US?

[eternal lance]

How much should I know about python(frameworks or any other programming languages that are required) to apply for a junior python dev

[smoky quest]

depends on your situation

[eternal lance]

well I am not a beginner in python but I am not advanced either, also can you elaborate on what you mean by depends on my situation

[smoky quest]

when you expect to graduate?

[eternal lance]

i am in grd 11 rn

[smoky quest]

do you mean grade 11?

[eternal lance]

yes

[smoky quest]

You have plenty of time to worry about jobs. I would recommend:

• Focus on getting into a good CS school
• Explore and try different things to learn more about the field and what you like and dislike. So try to make a website, a backend, robots, mobile apps...

[eternal lance]

i was thinking about getting a job to put it on my university application

[smoky quest]

You could look at small/odd jobs if that's what you want. But while they would give you the benefit of a professional experience, pre-university students wouldn't be handed out very complex tasks. While personal projects would give you the freedom to do more impressive projects.
As usual it's about trade offs

[eternal lance]

hmm that is something to think about

[robust atlas]

is that like an internship job? Don't you need a degree/certificate in the field in order to be hired to work on Python projects?

[regal tundra]

not necessarily

[gritty rivet]

You're much more likely to find something paid once you have a good personal project or two that you can show off

[eternal lance]

alright

[modest fractal]

@dense mesa yea

[vapid jay]

hello

i am a school going child

which language should i learn for coding

[ivory sluice]

whatever you like really - but since you're already on the python server, why not python? check out #python-discussion for any tips/advice on learning python.

[jade fog]

start with c

[graceful sundial]

Learn two to start with, after a while you will begin to pick up more languages as your code experience grows, and continue from there working with what you like and what you are capable of using, doing, and, wanting. Every language has its own characteristics that might make it a more natural choice for what you need or want to do. I have found i prefer python as a general development tool because of the modularity and extensibility it offers, along with its friendliness to users and syntax. Python just works the first time for me much more so than other languages. But in cases where performance right matters, there have been times I’ve been able to use C++ for much better results. Those are two solid languages, maybe make those your two and out of the two start with python. Worth mentioning Java as well, which was the first language i was taught and what i learned a lot of fundamental principles and concepts of coding and computer science with. My early experience exposed me to C as well, but i don’t think i would ever recommend learning C over C++ since C++ is to me and i’d think most people a more powerful C. By that same logic also maybe consider C#, I personally have never developed with C# so I can’t really begin to give a well informed opinion on its use, only really significant knowledge I carry regarding how C++ compares to C# is i know that C# has an automatic garbage collector which C and C++ lack

[summer roost]

I like suggesting Python as a first language, and then either C or JavaScript as a second. C if you're more interested in how things work and what happens on remote servers, and JavaScript if you're more interested in making websites or apps.

I recommend C before C++ because C is a much smaller language, making it easier to learn, and it's nearly a subset of C++ anyway, so you'd need to learn most of it on a path to learning C++. Learning it first seems an easier path to me.

[vast shoal]

C++ also feels like a more specialized choice. There's not much new to learn that you can't pick up more easily in a different language. Learning C++ is only really useful if you know you really want to work on C++ apps. But even then I feel a bit skeptical. Like, say you want to make games, why not go with something like Unity instead of C++? Or if you want a high-performance compiled language with abstractions for managing larger codebases, why not Rust?

[wise pier]

its a cli app so preferably i'd like it to be like docker or something where you can call its name from anywhere

[summer roost]

That's got nothing to do with careers

Try #python-discussion or a help channel - see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[wise pier]

ahh my bad
i thought i was on general

[summer roost]

No worries, it happens!

[slender anchor]

the thing in this chat is everyone is talking about getting employed, instead of being the employer/founder

[smoky quest]

because most questions being asked are from students and not people looking at starting their own company

[smoky quest]

do you have a specific question?

[tender gyro]

at faang
Do they typically work more with mac or windows

[smoky quest]

Depends on the team, tools and IT policies. But in 2022, the OS literally doesn't matter as a dev for frontend/backend

There is even a trend to start having your dev environment in the cloud

[tender gyro]

Can you state your credentials or something

[smoky quest]

I could, but I won't

[tender gyro]

ok np

[hot aspen]

@vapid jay Learn Python

[summer roost]

The production code generally runs on Linux servers, but developers are usually given a choice for what hardware they want for their laptop.

[serene kindle]

mac always

[serene kindle]

also it's MANGA now XD

[dense mesa]

You're welcome to change that 🙂

[serene kindle]

meta apple netflix google amazon

https://d2u3dcdbebyaiu.cloudfront.net/uploads/atch_img/347/dc201fc7d79cb4785e1adcd213f0ecf0_res.jpeg

alphabet is boring and Metaverse is fun lolol

MANGA is fun and FAANG is boring

what did you expect from degenerate anime catgirl

i heard about it, it's great, at least there is options for desperate people

[gilded valley]

I read one article that was floating around. I'm very skeptical as to how much of an issue it is, it seems like the kind of thing that might happen with <=1% of their potential hires

[serene kindle]

tech is inherently good?

[gilded valley]

the in terms of the damage done to society, there's plenty of orgs just as bad as Facebook. JP Morgan Chase and Shell would be two examples I'd argue are worse for society.

I'm not American and Shell isn't an American company

[serene kindle]

idk every organization has its issues, that's why checks and balances are there

[smoky quest]

engineers are pretty isolated to how users use the product

[gilded valley]

Shell makes a bigger splash than the others because it's putting a lot of effort into greenwashing its actions - whether those actions are better/worse than others I honestly don't know

[smoky quest]

Doesn't matter to you if you are just writing some frontend/backend/ml/datascience/ops/etc..
The individuals have their own morals but as long as they get paid and do interesting things...

that's not the case. It's more like the opposite in the sense that facebook has more issues attracting people. Not that having worked at facebook is a black mark

If anything, having worked at facebook means you have worked on servicing billions of users, which does not happen to everyone

[brittle thorn]

Tech is neutral

[smoky quest]

Also facebook and alphabet are huge companies! They do fund tons of charities and initiatives. Like entirely funding teams to provide tools/software for schools

so I am not trying to be a facebook fan, but more trying to underline the situation is a lot more nuanced than what one could read on twitter 😉

yeah, the problem is people don't want to join facebook because of its reputation. Not because facebook will make them less employable

besides its branding, it's also well known its engineering culture is pretty toxic

also many people do talk a lot about their principles and morals, but they do not necessarily act on them that strongly once they see the type of offer they could get at meta/alphabet/tesla/netflix/etc.

[brittle thorn]

It is corporate social responsibility...or CSR... doing deed to make their image shine but we seem to be generally unimpressed... There are B- corps that have social responsibility baked into their corporate charter rather than tacked on as a Tax deductable component but they are few and not as big as major corps

[smoky quest]

yeah definitely. I will take whatever good can come out of it

[brittle thorn]

This argues for a more well rounded education and the inclusion of more of the humanities like history, philosophy and ethics in engineering so the engineers understand more about the world around them .

[brittle thorn]

Because we are human and humans arent perfect .. the corporations, governments and various other institutions merely inherit our imperfections

[serene kindle]

oof

[brittle thorn]

Hopefully other corps will learn something out of all of this and consumers shun Meta like the engineers shun Fb/Meta.. but it seems unlikely... Meta is subsidizing oculus hardware selling it at a loss as a platform play to gain market share in VR..

There are those in the VR community who shun Meta /Fb so there is hope

[vast shoal]

I took some UX courses at uni and they included material on analyzing user behavior and usage patterns. That helps somewhat, I think.

[fast cloud]

can somebody help me i want to buy a django full stack course but I don't seem to find the perfect one

[lyric eagle]

Why pay for one? Freecodecamp is free and teaches u full stack. Question is can you apply yourself long enough to learn everything

[fast cloud]

I have a 50$ udemy coupon and almost every course is on sale

[honest pivot]

How small of a team do you think can benefit from a well defined coding standard and a formal code review process?

[vast shoal]

I would apply linting rules on a personal project even, and I'd do code reviews of PRs as soon as more than one person is involved.

Maybe not super detailed ones, but it feels like a good idea to exchange information about what other people in the team are doing and what their coding habits are on some level at least.

[rare panther]

Hello everyone, i need advice i'm planing to start a career in python as a self taught developer, what tips can you guys give me please. thanks in advance

in short I'm abit overwhelmed and i dont know where to start.

[dense mesa]

@rare panther where to start in terms of getting work as a self taught developer, or starting with Python?

[exotic karma]

Has anyone here been successful and made some good money without a degree and being self taught?

[rare panther]

@dense mesa starting with python

[dense mesa]

In that case, discussing a career in Python is likely too early. I would recommend going to #python-discussion and asking them to link you the pydis resources

[rare panther]

thanks a lot appreciate it.

[honest pivot]

I feel the same. What style of code review process do you think works well in a smaller team? I want to keep the quality of code high, while not taking up too much of people's time.

[buoyant seal]

CI tool, unit and integrations tests, and test checking coverage.
As long as testing percent is high enough, basically just reading what tests do / commit descriptions tell
At least I think that would be highest result in minimum taken time.
Well, and linting stuff too I guess. If dev environment is setup correctly, it takes almost zero time to keep it clean anyway.

[vast shoal]

I like reviewing PRs asynchronously through Github.

Before you merge them.

And you can Slack or call as needed if you want to have a real-time discussion about something.

Or Discord or whatever you use.

[honest pivot]

None of this looks at the style of code for readability. Except a linter in the CI process I guess. You don't have a human look at the code itself?

[buoyant seal]

I have human look of the code itself, but I just don't see a way to automate the checking of it.
and only automated ways aren't time consuming

I mentioned high tests percent, because they sort of make human looking addition in what is going on too. Sort of using tests as description to added code

[vast shoal]

Asynchronous reviews makes it a task that you can pick up and put aside whenever you have time, so you don't have to slot it into your schedule.

Like, if I have to wait for a slow CI build, I can review a PR in the meantime.

[honest pivot]

I think it still needs a place in your schedule. But yes, I see the value in asynchronous.

[vast shoal]

Why?

[honest pivot]

Things not given an explicit mandate to be done will end up not done, in my experience.

Like we have to acknowledge that yes, code review will take up a certain amount of my time, and it is necessary to do.

[vast shoal]

It's just a matter of habit. It's never been a problem in the teams I've been in. And if you end up with a PR that doesn't get reviewed, you can just ping in a slack channel or bring it up as a blocker on your daily standup.

I've never had to wait for more than a day at most to get something reviewed.

[buoyant seal]

when i needed to make reviews I just made in them in the morning.
Before diving fully into current work after that. If smth new appears, I was postponing it until next morning.
Not sure if it was good strategy, but it helped to be not distracting me, while having reviews done

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I mean, that's fine, as long as reviews get pushed through continuously.

[honest pivot]

Totally agree, there are certain times in the day that I am more functional than others, review is good "light" work to put in the less functional times.

[vast shoal]

There's an element of peer pressure there, but not in an unfriendly way, just in the sense that if I feel like I haven't stepped up and handled reviews lately I'll want to do it just to feel like I'm pulling my weight.

[honest pivot]

To be clear: I'm asking this from the perspective of wanting to make the case to my boss that we need a more formal review process.

[vast shoal]

I'd imagine a less time-consuming process would be easier to get approved, and having to schedule reviews is for one thing a lot of overhead and it also doesn't allow for any flexibility, so if people are in a flow state they'll have to break out of it to deal with the review even if it's not convenient and that might reduce productivity.

[honest pivot]

Sure. Also we're not using agile. It may be debatable whether we should look into it. It can give off the impression of "too many meetings", and I think it's important to keep the whole process focused so that those meetings are productive.

[vast shoal]

I'm not gonna try evangelizing for agile in general, but daily standups are super useful.

15 minutes tops, go around the room, each person says "what did I do yesterday?" "what do I plan on doing today?" "Am I blocked by something?"

If the answer to the last question is yes, you ask relevant people to stick around after the standup and help come up with a way to unblock you

It keeps people on track and ensures people don't bang their head against a wall for two weeks without telling anyone

And 15 minutes is barely any time at all

[clever swift]

Can anyone provide me Apache spark learning material?

[hard sparrow]

hi

[honest pivot]

Totally agree, and knowing very little else about agile, this is one feature of it I think we could really use.

[brittle thorn]

Attended a Scrum Master Training thingy ...yes stand up meetings are useful.

[buoyant seal]

well, that's the trick. The time limit.
my manager was spending hours on that all the time
which led to compromise to have such meeting in a more rare occasions.

[vast shoal]

In one team we had certain people who had a lot of trouble keeping things brief, so we made a rule that each person could only speak for up to one minute and kept the time with a timer. It actually worked quite well and even trained those people to express themselves more concisely.

[honest pivot]

We are not great about meetings at my company. Having effective meetings is a real skill that I think few people possess.

Even disregarding the standups, that must be awful for your focus

Oof

[near ocean]

sounds like youre in the wrong meetings

[vast shoal]

That sounds like a terrible idea.

[near ocean]

I also have 10 standups per week, for different teams in different countries
the difference in culture i see in the standups is incredible

[spice musk]

You are actively working on 10 projects?

[vast shoal]

10 standups a week might be fine if you're in a managerial role, but if you're a developer it sounds really bad

[honest pivot]

What's the point of everyone saying what they're doing if you're not gonna listen to any of it?

[spice musk]

Well the PMs care

[honest pivot]

But the information flow shouldn't only be upwards. The point is to help you collaborate.

[vast shoal]

Standups are not supposed to be meetings to report to managers, but you're also only supposed to have one standup a day.

[hidden berry]

I have like 5-7 meetings a week but not that many stand ups I guess

[vast shoal]

Though juniors tend to be less involved in what other people are doing generally speaking

[hidden berry]

Oh I’m a junior at a startup for reference

[spice musk]

Depends on the business as well. If your actively working on 1 project that would be 5 a week. When working in agencies you may work on multiple projects at a time so you may be required to attend additional stand ups.

[vast shoal]

When you're in a more senior role, your tasks tend to cover a wider area and you have more tasks related to training other people

So you have more reason to talk to and be involved in other people's work

[vast shoal]

Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not ideal.

[brittle thorn]

Ah true

[vast shoal]

That's pretty normal.

[kind oar]

@thick juniper How is it going G? did they send you python thing?

[summer roost]

If getting a degree is at all an option for you, you should get a degree. It makes breaking into the field much, much easier.

[exotic karma]

@summer roost I'm 19, unfortunately I am tight on funds and I work full time and have my own place and bills to pay, I wanted to ease my mind to know that if I work hard enough and put all my effort in, then there is a way to break into the field and be successful. Programming is my passion

[lyric eagle]

Go do freecodecamp. If you finish their courses in order and don't cheat you will land a job

[thick juniper]

We can't even get corporations to shun the Beijing Junta. I think there's little hope for them (or most others) to shun other organizations relatively benign.

[thick juniper]

I find the Udemy courses far more helpful and comprehensive than FreeCodeCamp and not much more expensive. Maybe that's just me, though.

[thick juniper]

I wouldn't worry about finding the "perfect" one, if for no other reason than that's unlikely to exist. From my experience, finding a highly rated one which many people have rated is likely to land you a good one, even if there are weaknesses to it.

[mortal wedge]

We have daily standups and they're good. They're usually pretty short

The idea of a standup is to keep people communicating and originally it means that everyone stands up during the meeting so they're uncomfortable and try to make it end quicker

[thick juniper]

Not yet. Thanks for asking! I don't know how long I should wait before emailing the HR woman first. Something beautiful might have dropped in my lap too. The same company just posted a job for a Python Developer in my area, so I'm going to ask about it whenever I email her.

Do you (or does anyone else) have an opinion on how long I should wait? My call with her was last Thursday.

[mortal wedge]

I always ask when a good time to follow up would be, generally a week is acceptable

[lyric eagle]

Yes udemy looks great I just usually refer people to freecodecamp cuz it's free and it's the major resource I've used to learn

[mortal wedge]

I'll plug coursera. You can see course ratings and generally the courses are super in-depth and are good preparations. But the ones I took came across like full college courses, so you have to be able to really dedicate the time to learning the topic.

[fallen wharf]

yay i am getting an offer soon after i have been looking for work for 6 months

[mortal wedge]

That's fantastic!!! Good job!

[thick juniper]

Congrats!

[fallen wharf]

thank you

they are a big python shop

[coarse atlas]

so i just joined here

wheres the learning bot

[near ocean]

Lesson 1 starts with reading the #welcome and #roles posts.
Lesson 2 starts with reading the channel descriptions. #python-discussion

[sharp orbit]

Guys, I'm a Beginner and I Like To Learn Python and I'm Confused Where To Start ** !!

[kind oar]

I had a manager once (I'm not a programmer if that matters), that did those quick meetings daily, that was stupid and too micromanage-y, nothing should be done daily lol.
emails and timesheets and project management apps exist for a reason.

[kind turtle]

Anyone know best way to make DAO on fantom network ? Cheers

[kind oar]

I don't remember the exact wording you said, but I think she gave you a timeline (a week?), but yeah a week is good enough.

you can follow up and tell her about the opening and that you're interested in interviewing for that one too, could make things go faster.

is it the same hiring manager?

[smoky quest]

I can't comment specifically on that situation, but that's not how stand ups ought to happen.
Being daily is actually pretty important and helpful to keep everyone in sync and make sure there are opportunities to create conversations and bring up any surprises asap

[smoky quest]

This channel is about #career-advice . You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[kind oar]

I think that is the reason those project management stuff exist, to stay on track, and usually the full team doesn't need to stay on the loop for every single details, it should just be the person involved > the manager, which could be done on email.

easier to follow up on emails or any of those project managers (idk what they're actually called).

[smoky quest]

That doesn't work at the team level since now your coworkers can't chime in

Also note that project managers add more troubles than they are worth at the scale of a single team

[kind oar]

pretty sure those solutions allow you to see others outstanding stuff

[thick juniper]

I don't know anything about either hiring managers, I'm afraid, not even if they're the same person or not. They could be the same, as both Python and Java are used in this company for back-end work. But I really haven't a clue.

[kind oar]

I'm not saying meetings are bad, I'm saying daily is bad in most cases, nothing major really happens within 8 hours window that would take 20 minutes of the full people time.

[smoky quest]

Sounds like you are talking about updating over email/tool VS in person. For which, I don't mind. the team should use whatever tool they are comfortable with. But the frequency should at least be once a day and have an opportunity to create conversations

Stand ups are less a way to track a project progress and more a tool for the team to be spatially aware of each others and help each others

[kind oar]

well, I guess contacting her is the only way.

[kind oar]

Yeah that is what I'm against, I don't need to stay on the loop for every little problem a team member have, yeah that could be the case for new people, but I think it is just too micromanage-y.

communications should be encouraged, if someone facing a problem then yeah they should reach out to the team member who have most experience in that area.

and meeting to brainstorm and stuff is good.

but daily? that feels a bit too much, I don't think much happens within a 8 hour period that makes it needed.

[summer roost]

I agree with everyone else who's saying that daily stand-ups are valuable. They give a touch point with the rest of the team, and an opportunity for your coworkers to unblock you on anything that you're stuck on. I don't understand the "meeting overload" point of view: on an average day I have 1 to 2 meetings, and one of those meetings is a 15 minutes sync-up with the whole team.

[smoky quest]

The thing, is you should be aware of what your team mates are working on. That's exactly how you get someone to jump in and tell you things like "hey I have encountered that problem blocking you, let's sync up after so that I can save you some time", or "oh I am also working on related X. Let's sync up"

[kind oar]

does your team tasks actually have less than 8 hours timespan?

[smoky quest]

A lot of things do happen in 8h

[night terrace]

Is the python crash course book a good book for learning python and cs concepts of programming along with it? Because i wanna be a robotics engineer and i know python but someone told me i should learn cs concepts too.

[kind oar]

I think brainstorming and thinking about the best way to go about doing something at the start is good,
for example manager says "Hey X, you do task Z123"
and another team member says "Oh btw, I did this before and I think doing XYZ was the most optimal way"

but I just can't imagine tasks changing much within 8 hours, but I guess in your team it does.

[near ocean]

What kind of item takes longer to complete than 8h? Sounds like you could be breaking it down some more

[summer roost]

Right. A project might take weeks, but it's pretty rare for me to go more than 2 days without making some incremental progress and completing some small piece of that project.

[kind oar]

the blocking part can easily be checked via one of those team management apps, manager could say "well guys, I want you to check the project board each morning, and see other people progress"

and that way if a team member have something to contribute about what is blocking the other guy he can directly reach out.

What I'm trying to say is that if a team of 10 people, 4 people actually contribute but the other 6 are just standing there.
this can simply be done by having a central location to see updates.

[night terrace]

And if it isnt what are some good books for learning cs concepts and python

[summer roost]

the blocking part can easily be checked via one of those team management apps, manager could say "well guys, I want you to check the project board each morning, and see other people progress"
That's a much more onerous process than the standup. It takes more time and effort.

[kind oar]

no, each person updates their tasks in the central app, other just take a quick glance over it.

[summer roost]

yes, and that process will take more time than a standup

[kind oar]

not individually

[near ocean]

Sounds like standup with extra proprietary steps

[summer roost]

yes, individually.

even writing down what I'm stuck on will often take longer than it would take for someone else to unstick me.

[smoky quest]

What you are describing is part of the grooming process. The team get some task and in some form, make a plan for it.
That's also an important part of the process and is implemented in a group manner or separate by owners and then brought back to the team for feedback/refinements

[zinc bobcat]

Hey guys ,
I am interested in learning ethical hacking and start a freelancing career.
I want to learn about phone related hacking because I don't understand computer networks , windows or OS.
and
I think there are very good softwares to protect PC but for mobile phone there are very less software and I never saw anyone around me use a anti virus in phone.
it would be really helpful if someone can recommend me a course or video link to a road map!

[kind oar]

no people won't actually write the whole story, they just say "I'm stuck in this task", another would say "Oh I have experience in this area, let me help you".

now you don't have to have 6 people just standing there instead of finishing their own tasks.

[smoky quest]

why would only 4 people contribute? Why aren't 6 people doing anything?

[summer roost]

My standup updates are often things like "today I'm wrestling with linting, because Black wants a comma at the end of this line and Flake8 doesn't want that."
To which my teammate says "Oh, the new version of Flake8 did that to me too. I'll show you how I fixed it."

[near ocean]

Dont the 6 people have to read the request for help? Do you actually do debugging and troubleshooting during standup? Why are they wasting their time

[kind oar]

because that is the reality lol, not everyone will contribute.

[summer roost]

it's not so big a problem that I'd want to write it down and admit to being "stuck" on it, but it's a problem someone else on my team has already solved and can help me through faster.

[summer roost]

60% of your team is being paid for not doing anything?

[near ocean]

Hey i have a problem in x area
I have experience, i can help, lets take this offline after standup
Everyone wins

[kind oar]

they are doing their own tasks

[summer roost]

do their tasks ever use the same tools or technologies as your tasks?

[smoky quest]

if it's not worth giving a stand up update, then it's not worth doing

[kind oar]

exactly

[summer roost]

I think you misread 😄

[smoky quest]

so they are doing useless things and the team is low performing?

[summer roost]

if something isn't important enough to tell other people about, it's not worth doing that thing at all.

[kind oar]

no, things are going smoothly in their tasks so they don't need to update

[near ocean]

So they dont have progress?

[smoky quest]

Stating what you did, doing and blocked on (if any), has nothing to do with how smoothly something is going

[summer roost]

It's starting to sound like your team's boundaries are drawn wrong. 10 people is already a very large team, and if 6 of those people are doing something that no one else on the team cares about or has any ability to help with, it doesn't seem as though they ought to be part of the same team.

[kind oar]

but you can get all this info from one central location though

[near ocean]

Yea, the standup

[kind oar]

or you can just use one of those platforms instead of the standup, everyone updates their tasks there.

[smoky quest]

That would be a different argument.
There is the what, which is about doing a stand up every day.
There is the how, which is face to face, on slack, on zoom, etc.

[kind oar]

and once a week people actually meet. you don't have to do it daily.

[smoky quest]

What worries me, is more than half of your team are doing things not relevant to the team

[summer roost]

I've seen both systems - the one where people write up their progress and blockers each day, and the one where people have a 15 minute meeting to discuss their progress and blockers each day. The latter works better. The developers find it less onerous to keep on top of, because it's easier to just say what you're working on and let people interrupt to ask questions if it's unclear than it is to collect your thoughts and clearly write down what you've done.

And when it's written down, they feel more like they're being judged on how much (or how little) progress they made, whereas the point of the sync up isn't to judge anyone, it's to figure out how to redistribute resources and knowledge to improve efficiency.

[kind oar]

that is what I mean by you being too micro-manage-y.
what you are saying isn't a problem, what matters is:
What work needs to be done?
is it getting done in time?
can it be done more efficiently?

if the team is finishing their tasks, idc about what they're spending their time on.

[summer roost]

you... should?

[kind oar]

if you have no extra capacity for them to work on, then they should do whatever they want (things not relevant to team).

[summer roost]

if someone spends a day doing something that someone else could do in 10 minutes, it's not micro-managing to have those two people work together. It's just... managing.

[kind oar]

yeah then the problem is the culture, if management is being too judge-y then that is the problem, and the same will happen in the standup, eventually people will be discouraged and would rather do things wrong than ask for help.

[smoky quest]

You should definitely care about the success of your team and what impact you are doing.
People aren't rewarded for their effort but for their results.

Having an entire week where an entire team can go off rails can lead to large troubles and efforts to address

[kind oar]

and that is what I'm saying

[kind oar]

.
it is about getting their results

[summer roost]

no, the problem is people's peception. In both cases, the management isn't being judgy, but people feel more self-conscious memorializing their shortcomings and struggles in writing than chatting about them.

[kind oar]

I think once people are more experienced, these standups are just a drag and a chore.
it helps less experienced people yes, but in that case, communications should be encouraged and one on ones with the manager about strategy of implementing the task should be the thing.

doesn't have to be the manager, could be the mentor or coach or whatever

[waxen storm]

Watch the Defcon talks on Youtube. Great place to start learning about the hacker community/culture. https://www.youtube.com/user/DEFCONConference?app=desktop

[summer roost]

I think once people are more experienced, these standups are just a drag and a chore.
Are you saying this as an experienced engineer?

[near ocean]

Why would you take the time and energy to invest in learning and maintaining a whole other platform for something you can speak at people in 1min

[kind oar]

.
nope as an experienced financial analyst

[summer roost]

as an experienced engineer, I find standups much more useful now than I found them as a junior. They give me an opportunity to jump in and share my expertise with someone more junior who's going about things the wrong way.

could be that standups aren't useful for financial analysts. They definitely are useful for software developers.

[waxen storm]

^^ As an EM they're useful because it's how I can easily see how the team is doing all in one go. Especially with so many people remote, you rarely see people interact anymore.

[kind oar]

learning seems a bit too much lol, most of these things are quite logical and second nature if I may say.

[kind oar]

okay, if the team member just add daily "I'm stuck on X task", that would save time

not all team members will contribute, you are looking at it from the point of view of the person stuck or the person advising, but not from the point of view of the rest of the team.

[waxen storm]

I think that you're thinking too much like an individual and not enough like a member of a team.

If everyone has their own individual problems then yes, standups are useless, but often you're collaborating on an issue, and having a common forum for discussion is super useful.
Modern startup software development is like making a mosaic.

[summer roost]

in an average standup, at least half of my team pairs up with someone else to talk after based on what was discussed in the standup.

[kind oar]

I'm thinking about it from the point of efficiency.

[kind oar]

and the exact same thing can be done in a the same central place that people update their tasks progress in, and they can directly reach out.

[summer roost]

sure, but people don't like admitting when they're struggling. They'll either think it's no big deal and everyone else would be struggling too and they just need to muddle through it, or they'll be embarrassed and not want to admit it. Anything that lowers the threshold and makes it more likely for people to say where they're stuck is a huge win.

[waxen storm]

There's so much slack in the work that we do as software engineers. It's not about minutes spent writing code, it's about writing the right code.

I mean, look, there are plenty of cultures that work that way - I don't want to work in them because it tends to feel soulless. I really like interacting with my team, and we have a sense of camaraderie.

Doesn't matter if it's efficient or not. Efficiency doesn't keep excellent engineers engaged.

[kind oar]

yeah that is what I'm saying, it is a problem of culture not a problem of method.
you think people don't remember who is the person who asks way too many questions? or the one that get stuck the most?

you do remember the same things in person too, it isn't like your memory get erased after the meeting

[kind oar]

yeah I think at the start of assigning tasks, people should meet and talk about what they think is the best way to go about implementing this, what I'm against is the daily aspect of it.

[summer roost]

have you ever worked on a team that uses standups, or have you just decided that they're bad without trying them?

[smoky quest]

Note that things change and may require coordination over the course of the task, even if a task is well defined from the get go

[kind oar]

how often does something major actually comes up?

that needs a change in plans, adapting is important yes, but how often does these things happen?

[smoky quest]

more than you think.
Things as simple as coordinating between merges, deployments, etc.

[summer roost]

Every 1 to 2 days, in my experience.

[kind oar]

my question is, do they happen on a daily basis?

[smoky quest]

yes

[kind oar]

Yeah I guess daily standups are needed if major changes needs to be done daily.

[smoky quest]

not major, but ensuring that people are spatially aware

[summer roost]

It's not just major changes, also minor changes.

Any change at all requires input from others.

I've worked on teams where people were reluctant to adopt standups because they thought it would be more time consuming and make them less productive.
I've never worked on a team where people wanted to go back to what they were doing before after trying standups for a while.

Standups make developers more productive, and let them spend more of their time on novel problems instead of boring problems that others have already solved.

[kind oar]

I guess that works for you.
but personally, if I'm managing a big team doing a project I'd assign tasks at the start, have meeting about what people think the optimal way to go about each part,
then have a weekly meeting at most or if something major changes,
but if it is something minor/someone having an issue they can just reach out to the expert directly

then after the project is done we do a meeting about their experiences and what they thing could have been done better.

[summer roost]

have you actually tried standups? You didn't answer me above.

[kind oar]

I did, but not SWE standups, I think they waste a lot of time (not a lot, but just enough to be annoying)

[summer roost]

I don't know any developer who has tried both longer weekly touchpoints and shorter daily touchpoints and prefers the longer weekly ones.

[kind oar]

I don't need an update of how each person's tasks when I can already see it in the project management app

[summer roost]

developers, by and large, hate project management apps.

[kind oar]

i didn't say longer weekly, I said it should be done weekly, but if everything is running smoothly then it would be just a hi how you doing thing and gets wrapped up in 10 minutes.

[kind oar]

because the culture is that they're getting paid for that, instead of getting paid to get results/finish the work assigned in the best way possible.

[summer roost]

If it takes N minutes for someone to say what they accomplished over the last 1 day, it takes 5*N minutes for them to say what they accomplished over the last 5 days.

It's longer by necessity.

[kind oar]

nope, it would be "I've done this using that, things gone well, job done, thank you all"

[summer roost]

Anyway, we're an extremely well compensated industry, in terms of salary, benefits, PTO, etc. Skills are highly transferable between companies. We landed on stand-ups because developers like them. If developers hated them, they're go to other companies that manage developers differently.

The companies that do the waterfall type of project management approach you're advocating for are much less nice to work for.

[kind oar]

but ultimately, what works for my team is different than yours, so as you said, stuff comes up on a daily basis so yeah daily standup should be the way to go.

[kind oar]

I guess that is the case

Personally, I think managers should keep their mouth shut and just try to come under budget, they shouldn't try to cut costs on the expense of people happiness, just come under budget and all good.

[thick juniper]

Is the reason you're asking because individual HR people work under hiring managers? I don't really know how the hierarchy works here.

[kind oar]

recruiting works in levels, first people apply,
ATS does his thing, spits up top candidate to HR,
HR skims through the top resumes, decide top candidates,
does phone interview and or HR interview (mostly just culture fit and basic fact checking)

then throws it to the hiring manager, who does the technical interviews.

[summer roost]

I think it's fine to reach out sooner if you want, and say "thanks for the interview. I was really happy to meet the team. I also noticed that there is another posting that looks like it would be a good fit for my skills. Can you tell me anything about job x?"

[kind oar]

yup, she already liked you since she talked about the python exam thingy, so the next step would be talking to the python hiring manager

[honest pivot]

This is exactly the resistance I expect to get when I suggest the idea, both from my team and from my boss. Any ideas how to prepare my case?

[smoky quest]

Time bound it to 15min. Any discussion can be taken offline

you can also mention some easy outages or problems that could have been prevented by just knowing about something

[honest pivot]

That will take some thinking, especially since by the very nature of not having this process, I'm often in the dark about what goes on every day

[smoky quest]

that's an argument in itself

[honest pivot]

I also want to establish a more regular code review process, any ideas? How does code review work in your team?

[smoky quest]

• Every PR/merge requires a code review
• Code review can be done by anyone else in the team

[honest pivot]

One reviewer or two?

[smoky quest]

In case of emergencies, you can also tag the commit with a review-after-commit so someone will still look at it

one reviewer is enough

[honest pivot]

Boss is concerned by the amount of time it will take to require a formal review process. I suspect he's also concerned that it may introduce negative social dynamics. I think both of these are unfounded, but we do need to make smaller merges.

I think he has difficulty understanding "being strict about code quality now will save us a ton of technical debt later".

[smoky quest]

you don't improve things by stuffing them under the carpet.
You improve things with a lot of sunshine

[summer roost]

Push for it to be trialed, with a vote after 4 weeks to see whether to continue.

[smoky quest]

Also don't look at any process as strictly a way to enforce things. That's a pretty bad connotation.
Look at it as a way to improve things and provide a safety net.

For instance code reviews aren't about enforcing code quality. Code reviewers can be very bad at it. That's why we have linters and formatters.
But instead it enables two team mates to communicate about the code, its intent, double check on purpose and if it all makes sense and no blind angles. It also ensure that more than one person has seen some changes and reduces the bus factor.
It creates more trust as it also give an opportunity to ask questions and clarify specific points. Without a code reviews, you wouldn't have that opportunity and just assume their code is trash because you lack the proper context. And that would only make things worse

[honest pivot]

Interesting, I see

[summer roost]

Code reviews are also excellent for knowledge sharing, in both directions

That is, the reviewer learning a new tool or technique, or the reviewer pointing out a problem or a better solution

[smoky quest]

yeah, it's a great opportunity for mentoring or sharing new techniques

[smoky quest]

also don't see the code review as the reviewer being the all powerful dictator.
It needs to be seen as an exchange.
The reviewer must provide meaningful feedbacks that is considered by the author and weighted in, but if either they go too far into nitpick or the reviewee does not listen, then the manager should intervene.
Code reviews are usually good experiences and if they are stressful, it's a smell something is wrong.

[honest pivot]

Yes, exactly, I the focus to be on improvement and knowledge sharing

[smoky quest]

And another thing to keep in mind is most changes don't have to be sudden and large.
What we do here is we do incremental changes and we do not hesitate to try things out. Someone may bring up a problem or some idea during a sprint retro and we won't hesitate to try something or tweak it

any process should be at the service of your team and not the opposite. Therefore dogmatic positions should be shunned

[vapid jay]

i might take a faang interview in 10 years

.topic

[tender osprey]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[eternal lance]

Anyone know how I can volunteer as a python developer or something

I feel like it would help me brush up my skills plus give me hours

And also show me some real world situations

[smoky quest]

any open source python project?

[terse spire]

Hi all. I would like to start a thread for all people who are hunting for a python backend dev job. I want to talk about my experience so far and update them.

I am currently search for a python backend job. I'm not new to python. Worked as a data analyst before. I really like web dev after got in touch with flask the first time and would like to make the transition. Right now I'm systemically studying all aspects of python backend in hope of finding a job.

I have to be honest. I kept failing at interviews so far. So far I had 6-7 interviews where it reaches to technical assessmnet stage. They all think either my implementation of the assignments are too clumpy, or just not up to the senior developer standard. None of them are willing to hire me for give me a chance as junior which they can guide me. All those comanies wants someone who can produce production level code right from the start.

Yes it''s discouraging from time to time. But as I failed this much my still also improved a lot in many aspects. And I don't even get effected for long after a failure anymore. I want to continue this path.

I will give people who are looking for jobs some help as what you will be ask for. In fact as python backend dev goes it's many topics . My interviews mostly have three forms:

1. Hackerrank and Leetcode style implementing algorithms. This is actually the hardest for me. Because it's time-limited, a lot of pressure. Many times the interveiwers will watching you over. I can work out a solution when I'm alone and have more time. But live sessions are really depends on my condition on that day, or whether I did similar problem before. A lot of times I blackout due to pressure, or running out of time. You have to be pretty good on solving those problems in a short time.

2. API and microservice development. Usually take home. Almost of time they ask for 5 hours to do the assignment. I use flask. I do have clean code. But the quality requirement is very very high for this. I have to make sure all http error are cought, and throw the right ones. For example here are some problems what interviewers told me about:
   The API does not gracefully handle validation errors when you create a user. For example, when you try to create a user and the "password" is missing then the API will fail with a 500 internal server error instead of 400 bad request.
   The API does not not gracefully handle duplicate user errors. When you try to to create a user with an existing username the API fails with a 500 internal server error instead of a 400 bad request.
   Very limited support of request payload validation. Especially with password validation. There is no minimum length or character combination requirements. You can create a user with a password of "abcd" for example.

As you can see. He wants a production level code. Not a demo as they stated in the assignment. Don't be fooled by 5 hours and short description of the assignment. You need to spend a lot of time to make it production. Any of course good cover of unittests as companies really looking for this.

[compact swallow]

I'll be honest, the feedback in part 2 sounds like pretty reasonable concerns. In those cases, 500 errors don't make any sense because it's not an internal service error at all - it's the fault of the person making the request, aka bad request. This isn't a nitpick, it's standard. Password validation is also very important, and it's not something that takes a ton of time to implement. It's just a few small checks. I wouldn't call it an issue with them wanting production level code, they just want a little attention to detail that you're not giving.

Being nervous about Leetcode style questions is very normal though, and really the only way to get better at those is to practice them more.

[terse spire]

3. Design patterns and OOP principle. Again like API assignment. these are take home 5 hours assignments. Interviewers will ask you an open question. For example I have been asked for build a paper rock scissors game. Just that. Sounds simple right? No it's not. You are definitely not going to find any quality solutions by looking at some blogs about write this game under 200 lines.

What they are really asking is good software engineering practice. It's about design patterns. How good is the abstraction of your code. How scalable they will be. I actually realize that. But my design patterns are not strong at the moment and reading books and doing projects to improve. Again it will likely to cost you more than 5 hours. Most likely a lot more than 500 lines of code for a good implementation. Here are some feedbacks I got

• Creating an interface (for example an abstract class) that abstracts the user interface so that it’s easy to swap the CLI for a native GUI or a Web UI
• Creating an interface (for example an abstract class) that abstracts the player (something fetches or generate moves) - so that we can easily extend it for 2 humans to play or 2 bots, or get the input from a file for simulation…

I'm trying to improve my solution now even I got rejected. For second one I'm using an abstract factory pattern. The first one I'm think a MVC structure.

For those who needs practice. I made a github public repo for this.
https://github.com/yehuihe/paper-rock-scissors
There are three branches so far. main, yehuihe/development is what I'm currently working on improvement. yehuihe/original-submit is my original submit.

You are welcome to make commitment. In fact I'm thinking I will continue the path and make it a game library of some sort.

[terse spire]

I know. They actually make good feedback. Those are think I should consider but I'm just to new. Maybe I sounds resentful. But the main goal here is to inform other newbie job hunters what they will face. I do not have that much of experience like you. Making a full api takes quite some time already. To also consider this many cases is the next step. Well, good thing is now I know. I would make the same mistake next time\

[compact swallow]

Gotcha, sorry if I made assumptions. It's great that you got feedback though, now you know what to work on!

[terse spire]

Three big area for interviews. A handful to prepare for new comers.

[graceful mason]

We started with:

• each MR requires 1 review by anyone. Post your MR in a slack channel with all developers and someone will pick it up for you

And then moved onto an automated system that works very well:

• each developer is assigned to groups of areas that can be reviewed (firmware, in-house testing simulation, tooling + scripts etc.)
• when your MR is ready for review, assign it a tag for whichever group you want to review it
• a bot picks out 1 or 2 random people (depending on the size of the MR) to review it
• bot posts the review in slack channel for visibility, optionally pinging the assigned developers

[broken sluice]

hi

i need to become software developer

[smoky quest]

fyi, pre-condition validation and input validations are basic things that interviewers are looking for and are easy to add.
This not only apply to your take home projects but also to leetcode/algo questions.
Always validate your input.

[smoky quest]

go for it

[smoky quest]

also, nice write up! It's very nice to have taken the time to have put all of this together

[broken sluice]

how?

[smoky quest]

get a BS or MS or phd in computer science

[broken sluice]

ok

i shud learn pyrthon rite?

[smoky quest]

that usually comes with it

[broken sluice]

in the MS?

[smoky quest]

yeah

But your question is overall pretty vague. Technically, anyone who develop software is a software developer.
So can you expand a bit?

[broken sluice]

?

i cant understand?

[smoky quest]

So what problem are you trying to solve?
What is your current situation and what's stopping you from being a software developer?

[broken sluice]

im a student

@smoky quest

[smoky quest]

in which grade?

[broken sluice]

?

[smoky quest]

what level of school are you at? or how old are you?

[broken sluice]

12 grade

[smoky quest]

got it.
12 grade puts you at 17-18 years old and soon to go to college.
So I would recommend to:

• Focus on getting into a college/university for a bs/ms in computer science
• You can start learning more about CS and progamming to give you a head start (and also because it's fun)

[broken sluice]

um

im atually 10

@smoky quest

[smoky quest]

alright, I am gonna give you a slightly different recommendation then :p

[broken sluice]

ok

i have plan to learn python now itself

[smoky quest]

My recommendation would now be:

• You still have plenty of time. So learn things, try things and have fun
• You can still start to learn more about CS and learning to code

yeah, python is a great language to get started! Lots of people use https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

[broken sluice]

where can learn python

[smoky quest]

you can also make games with python too

[autumn spruce]

yea

[broken sluice]

ok...where can i learn python

[smoky quest]

here: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

[autumn spruce]

but basic ones not the high end ones

[smoky quest]

you can definitely make high end ones too

[autumn spruce]

yea but u will need advanced code knowledge not the basic beginner's one

[smoky quest]

ah yes, right

[broken sluice]

can i learn in coursera?

[smoky quest]

I don't know. I didn't use coursera.
I do know some other 12 years old did use https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ to learn python

[broken sluice]

tht book

[autumn spruce]

yea coding projects in python

[broken sluice]

um i dont know python

[inner wren]

Hey @autumn spruce!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[broken sluice]

eh

[autumn spruce]

wait come to dm

[smoky quest]

that's what the book https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ is teaching you python

[broken sluice]

i dont want book

[smoky quest]

why not?

[broken sluice]

;-; idk

[autumn spruce]

it has the basics too

[broken sluice]

oh

[autumn spruce]

it will help u make basic and in the end it has some big codes tht u can do

cuz u have already learnt the basics before

[broken sluice]

no

[deft hound]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q8BBHZW

[broken sluice]

bye

[autumn spruce]

u want to see some basics i can screen share

[broken sluice]

gotta go

[autumn spruce]

k bye

[broken sluice]

sure...share

[autumn spruce]

come to voice chat 1

[broken sluice]

yes sir

[autumn spruce]

cant screen share

[broken sluice]

bruh

[autumn spruce]

k i will send the ss in ur dm later

[broken sluice]

k

[snow stone]

can any body solve this

[smoky quest]

• We don't help with cheating
• This channel is about career discussions

You would have more luck on #❓｜how-to-get-help

[plucky echo]

I want an it/python job so bad

[gritty dawn]

I recently interviewed at a company and its been a month since the interview and I haven't heard back, do companies usually take this much time?

[plucky echo]

Anyone have experience with helpdesk jobs, looking hard into getting one

[summer roost]

No. Either you didn't get the job, or that company is extremely poorly organized. Normal response time would be 1 to 2 weeks, though the holidays may have caused something to slip through the cracks

[gritty dawn]

Oh, ima send them a follow-up email just incase.

[summer roost]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[honest pivot]

Every company is different, but I'd say if a company is moving that slowly, they are taking a huge risk that their candidates may take other offers in the meantime, hint hint

[summer roost]

the other possibility is that their hiring manager caught covid, or something.

between the holidays and the omicron spike, it's entirely possible that the application just got pushed to the side for a while.

[honest pivot]

Sure, there are lots of possible explanations. I'm not saying it happens on purpose or even that it means the company is bad to work for.

I'm just saying, don't wait around and keep applying.

[gritty dawn]

I feel like the company hasn't really given me much attention, especially given my expertise

The emails they've sent me seem like they took seconds to write

[honest pivot]

It's possible they had a large number of applications

[gritty dawn]

Maybe

[smoky quest]

1month from application to getting someone to contact you back is not abnormal, while a bit long.
But from interview to feedback, that is not expected

[gritty dawn]

Yea so they invited me to an interview, and then after the interview I hadn't heard back in a month

[terse spire]

is this a tech interview?

[gritty dawn]

and I feel like I made a mistake by not asking for how much time I should expect for them to contact me, or sending them a email a day later thanking them

[terse spire]

or just first contact

[smoky quest]

So yeah, stay professional regardless.
Even if they don't behave the right way, still wish them a happy new year and how you would like to circle back with them

[gritty dawn]

Yep, it's for a tech company

[honest pivot]

It's possible they wanted to interview a lot of people before making a decision. Debatable whether that's a good strategy or not.

[smoky quest]

When normal companies want to proceed forward, they would call back asap and try to close the deal asap. They don't want to take the chance of you coming back with other offers

[terse spire]

I meant a technical interview or a HR first contact interview from the tech company

[gritty dawn]

100%, I honestly enjoyed the interview and felt like it was amazing, just suprised I haven't heard back. I do think that they might not be giving me much attention because I am the youngest applicant, but I still feel like I have the most experience.

[smoky quest]

Time kills all the deals

[honest pivot]

Two years ago I went through four rounds of interviews with a tech company only for them to go on a hiring freeze.

[gritty dawn]

whats the difference? They basically just asked me about my experience and steps I would take to start a project

[honest pivot]

You'll see all sorts of dumb processes.

[gritty dawn]

oh damn

[honest pivot]

And that took like 2 months

[gritty dawn]

Did you end up getting the job?

[honest pivot]

No, I needed a job on a faster time scale than however long they were on a hiring freeze. They weren't my first choice anyway.

I think they finally reposted the same job like in November last year.

[gritty dawn]

Oh, I am planning on looking for other opportunity's, but it doesn't seem like their are much great options because most jobs have an age requirement of being 18 or older.

[honest pivot]

I don't know what to tell you there.

[smoky quest]

Why not going for college? That would make things way easier for you

[gritty dawn]

I am planning on going to college as well, but I noticed that most other highschoolers are working aswell

[honest pivot]

Not in tech jobs though

I really hope we've not gotten to the point that a future employer after college is gonna demand that you had tech job experience in high school.

[gritty dawn]

True, but it's my passion

[smoky quest]

tech jobs are in the category of high skills jobs. Not the same requirements than working at a boba shop. So it would make things slightly more difficult to get

[honest pivot]

I think your time would be better spent continuing to learn

[gritty dawn]

True, but I have hella experience

[smoky quest]

you are 18. You don't have experience.
I don't mean in it in a bad way, just that it's not the same thing.

[civic coyote]

example

[smoky quest]

that's some great experience! And I don't mean it to gatekeep you or anything. But that's not how companies would look at you

[civic coyote]

OOOO

icic

[gritty dawn]

haha, you've played it?

[civic coyote]

yup its noice

[gritty dawn]

That's great to hear!

[civic coyote]

i own bad buisness in roblox

[gritty dawn]

dope

[gritty dawn]

btw, the job I am applying to is unfortunately no where near high-paying, McDonalds pays more, but it's something that I would enjoy working on

[smoky quest]

like what?

also what's your goal? Learning or $$$?

[gritty dawn]

Learning for now

also it's not a coding job lol, i'm still learning how to code

[terse spire]

Why not launch your own startup? I know people don't go to college but highly skilled going for that route. And hughly successful.

[smoky quest]

I would agree with Aurendil then. You would get more value out of doing random projects and learning than strictly looking for a job. That would have less constraints on what you would learn

[smoky quest]

that's not really the case. More like the opposite tbh

[gritty dawn]

Yea! I was hoping to do that, but I need some capital and to network with others

I also wanna improve my coding skills

[terse spire]

If you want to work for a big corporation likely they have hard-core degree requirement

[gritty dawn]

True, that's why I joined this discord server. To meet coders so that I can potentially find a project to work with.

[smoky quest]

There are also many open source projects that can help you up your skills while giving you some great points on your resume

[terse spire]

Ok i know people who are half a year away from getting the degree from college. Get bored while his own project are rising. Quitted and devoted the fulltime into it and made big

[honest pivot]

It is important to point out that the vast majority of startups fail

[gritty dawn]

That's an amazing idea, ima try and find some that I could potentially work on, but currently I only have a 2 months of python experience

[summer roost]

9 out of 10 fail within 5 years.

[terse spire]

I know. But he made something already have millions of users

I never did

[gritty dawn]

Didn't make it, it was a contract work

[smoky quest]

• vast majority of successful entrepreneurs are already rich or their family was rich
• vast majority of successful entrepreneurs at > 37-40years old (I don't recall the exact age in the stats I had in mind)
• vast majority of people raising funds and stuff are already in the appropriate networks (ex: family, stanford, etc.)
• vast majority of startup fails
• Lots of people tend to talk a lot and to try to project things that are not necessarily true. So not calling out your friend as a liar, but I have some doubts

[smoky quest]

Most open source projects are more than happy to get any help!
You can start by helping with documentation, tests, communities, and then ramping up in the code

[gritty dawn]

I've seen classmates who are at highschool start successful brands and companies, one kid at my school became a YouTuber with millions of subscribers, it's possible,

[smoky quest]

That's it?
By success we are talking about raising millions of $ and raising millions of $ in funding

[summer roost]

And it's not that that kind of success isn't possible, of course it is. It's just not common, and requires lots of luck.

[smoky quest]

Yeah, that's tough, but that's very different from building a sustainable business

Also be a pretty girl*

[honest pivot]

They say, if you want to make a small fortune, start with a large one

[gritty dawn]

Another classmate of mine builds servers for games to run on, also the YouTuber has a succesful dropshipping brand aswell.

[gritty dawn]

He's a male lol

[smoky quest]

that's pretty nice!

[gritty dawn]

That's true, almost all the succesful kids at my school have rich parents

[terse spire]

@gritty dawn Anyway. If you want to work on python and software engineering in general. I have a open repo about simple game. It's about good design pattern.

#career-advice message

[gritty dawn]

Thanks!!! I’ll look into it! Currently I’m doing a Datacamp data science course

[terse spire]

Nice. Last advice. Maybe you can think about which python route you want to get into. Either data science or python backend dev or full stack. Maybe something else. But try to stick to one as each one have infinite amount of knowledge to acquire. I'm currently transtioning from DS to backend. It's a struggle. Plan early

[gritty dawn]

I want to do DS because I heard that’s where the money is at, and you can than transfer to AI/ML

Is their any reason why your are transitioning from DS to backend?

[terse spire]

For DS you really really really have to go to university. Probably a good one and later getting a master or Ph.D. Serieously. I NEVER heard of any DS who doesn't have advanced degree.

[gritty dawn]

Oh, is data science very hard?

[terse spire]

It requires hard math. In fact not that much of development skill is not a limiting factor. But it's math heavy. One can only acquire that level of math in a university

Linear algebra, multi-varible calculus, and statistics at a pretty high level.

No one will even look at your resume if you don't even have a master

[gritty dawn]

Oh damn, I hate math 😔

[near ocean]

i came in defense of the standup yesterday but i feel i regret it now haha
just wrapped up my second standup today with the office here in london where sales and operations happen with non tech people
They take so goddamn long to do their piece, the same size engineering team finished theirs in 5 mins, this one took 24

not sure if its culture in the UK, how can they have the energy and will to crack jokes and chit chat first thing in the morning

that'd be kinda hard, they go into a meeting room full of chairs for the standup lol, dont think i can convince anyone to actually stand

i just wish they didnt try to solve their issues during the standup, but i've only worked there for like 5 months now, dont feel like its my place to start changing their habits/rituals

[smoky quest]

sprint retros or talking to your manager are also places to talk about these improvements

[near ocean]

it feels like i'd just be complaining tho, i dont have a solution besides "be quicker, i need my coffee already"

[smoky quest]

There is a difference between bitching and improving something. If you bring it in good spirit and in a way that sounds more about asking questions and improving than just complaining, it can go a long way
Chances are others can also get bored or tune out and will eventually complain the meeting is useless.

[mossy blade]

a

[west palm]

^^^^^^^^^^

This is one hell of a statement

and 100% correct

[honest pivot]

The business side people have a totally different approach to meetings. At least here they seem perfectly content to schedule a regular meeting just because, use it to talk about whatever, or cancel it at the last moment if they feel like it.

These are people whose job itself is done mostly via conversation

[minor shadow]

https://usemynotes.com/build-your-own-covid-19-tracker-using-c/

[honest pivot]

Why does this still happen?

Yes. I see, it's under a "Discussion" header and is near the top of the list

[dire fog]

Hello people. What is the best way to learn python and get a job?

[near ocean]

there is no best way
the only way is to start applying to positions

[gilded valley]

how will that help learn python?

[near ocean]

thats for getting a job, for learning python they should ask in the appropriate channel

[dire fog]

I tried to go through python certification courses, but I feel like, I don't remember that much after completing just 1 task and moving to a different topic and it's kinda boring, I'm gonna try by building some easy applications..

[gilded valley]

There is no clear best way, it depends on too many individual factors which you haven't given

[gilded valley]

I dunno. "How do I go from not-knowing python to having a career in python" seems like a reasonable question for the careers channel

[near ocean]

The most common response to "how to learn python" is !resources and thats not exactly that career specific

[gritty rivet]

A project-oriented focus is definitely the way to go. You're describing what's known as "tutorial hell". Only do tutorials to familiarize yourself with some specific new thing you find difficult and move on quickly. Stay focused on what you want to build and complete so you'll eventually have results to show off in your portfolio

[tranquil patio]

Can we work on app development in Python?

[near ocean]

sure, youre probably not going to find something that pays for professional app dev in python however

[tranquil patio]

But why? It is also a useful platform to create something! Why is it still not popular any reason?

[near ocean]

other languages do it better, faster, and with more support from the ecosystem

[tranquil patio]

Ahh got it.... Thanks so much for the clarification. @near ocean

[near ocean]

if you want to do app dev you should use a more appropriate language/framework/tech
trying to force hammers to be screwdrivers never worked for anyone looks at electron.js

[true maple]

Hii, is it fine if I upload my resume here and you guys take a look at it and suggest any modifications?

[pastel quail]

yes, i'm sure many people would be happy to help

[heady kelp]

sorry i got a general question . i wnat to write a graphical app . and tkinter is a bit lag and slow , and sometime it stop respond . what language is best for graphical apps . i think c# would be the best .

what you suggest ?

[true maple]

thanks

[inner wren]

Hey @true maple!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[kind oar]

#python-discussion

[kind oar]

upload it as picture.

[true maple]

okk thanks

Please check my resume and suggest any modifications (if any)

[kind oar]

your best bet would be posting on an indian tech server/subreddit.
People here might give you an advice that is good in their country but bad in yours, so keep that in mind.

[drifting flame]

I have a question, what is python normally used for?

[buoyant seal]

data science / machine learning, scripting (in DevOps), web development.
i saw there is micropython for microcontroller level stuff
perhaps I missed smth

[drifting flame]

Is Java any good?

[buoyant seal]

java remains strong 😉 still a lot of market is overtaken by java

[kind oar]

you choose a career/field you want to work in then learn the popular languages for it, not the opposite.

[drifting flame]

If I want to be a software engineer, what could I learn?

[kind oar]

software engineer is a big title, it entails a lot of fields, not descriptive enough.

[buoyant seal]

Computer Science degree from university for starters, if to be software engineer

[drifting flame]

Fair enough

[dreamy thorn]

Anyone ever work for a company called Talentheed Inc? They are a hire out type company and I'm trying to find someone who worked for them to ask some questions

[true maple]

okk u r right

[true maple]

still how does it look on a general perspective?

[kind oar]

This is your second/third year in college, I find it weird that you would know all these languages without projects, but could be wrong.

[true maple]

i mean there r not any errors, right?

[true maple]

it is my 2nd year,
I use python , HTML, CSS, Javascript for my web dev, C++ for Competitive programming, and used SQL for databases..

[kind oar]

idk man, I'm not a software engineer so can't advice, and you have your highschool scores there, not sure if that is normal in india.

also weird spacing, I personally don't use enter (line breaks), I use spacing before the headers

[true maple]

i have done 1-2 more projects, but they r incomplete, so wont include now
They will be done in 2 months approx

[vast shoal]

I've experienced this multiple times and solutions have included making it policy to briefly mention what your issue is during the standup and ask interested people to stick around after the meeting to solve it, and then move on to the next person. Also to limit each person to for example 1 minute before moving on to the next person.

That's concrete solutions and not just complaining.

[true maple]

okk will keep that in mind

thanks @kind oar

[kind oar]

yup, they're looking at it from the point of view of people who are contributing instead of those who just want to get their tasks done and focus on other stuff.

[near ocean]

to be clear, i dont want to stop them from attending the standup or me from skipping it, their issues are my issues
i just want them to stop bantering first thing in the morning and get on with it, i dont like sitting in a room for 20' waiting for jokes to be over

[kind oar]

good luck my guy!

[near ocean]

its just wild to me how theres so much difference in culture, the engineering team is polish, they each take 30 secs to say their piece and if theyre struggling and its so much smoother

[kind oar]

at that point, it would be a robotic, and that brings us back to my point, it should be just done in some sort of app like asana or whatever is popular.

[vast shoal]

I like robotic, and I think it'd be too easy to forget or ignore if it wasn't in person.

Banter is all well and good, but only if it's opt-in. I don't want to be subjected to it if I don't want to or if I have more important things to do.

[honest pivot]

There's nothing worse than putting business development and software people in the same room together, they have completely opposite needs for a working environment

[kind oar]

if a team ignores the manager when he tells them to check stuff daily then it is time to put him back to senior engineer, where he belongs.

[vast shoal]

If there's no process for ensuring that people remember to do it (even after being handed down an order from the almighty manager), people are still gonna forget, because that's just what people are like. It's much better to create a system that implicitly disincentivizes forgetting.

[kind oar]

If you saw my argument yesterday, I said everyone fills their progress and where they're stuck at at the end of the day, and at the start of the next day everyone checks the board, if all good then all good and you saved 10 minutes of everyone time, yeah 10 minutes isn't a big deal, but it gets annoying over time.

if someone forgets to check once or twice then that isn't a big deal, but if they ignore that often then they aren't doing part of their job.

It is a general assumption that we all are working with adults, who know that they will have to get whatever assigned done, there is nothing "almighty" or power trippy about holding people accountable in their job.

[vast shoal]

I don't like that there's no standard channel for highlighting when I'm stuck in this model. I mean, I write it down, and then I wait for someone to come and help me? What if they just don't? Then I have to go chase after them. I don't want to have to do that. If I say I'm stuck in the standup and everyone's just quiet, there's some pressure for someone to respond and get the ball rolling.

(and this totally works in practice btw, I've been doing it for 8 years)

[kind oar]

because they can do it in person too, nothing is stopping them, because according to what you said, people can "forget" to check.

an it is the manager jobs to play around the strengths of his team members, for example, everyone in the team might have a strong point, and they should help others in need (when they have capacity/lower priority tasks), otherwise no one will help them AND they aren't a team player so that will certainly affect them.

it is a give and take, and if someone is stuck on a part of task that means it will be a bottleneck for the whole team sooner or later, so better to just help him.

my whole argument is about the frequency, according to the other two guys, important things come up daily or so, then they should do it daily.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I'd say it definitely does. There's usually at least one person that needs help with something every day.

[kind oar]

yeah I agree, especially new member, but those should work with the mentor and manager, instead of having the rest of the team just there.

[true harness]

having a face to face meeting makes it very awkward for no one to respond. whereas if it's on a task tracker it's much easier to miss our forget it

[vast shoal]

The problem is that you can't know ahead of time who happens to have the expertise necessary to unblock the person, and it's also not just new people who get blocked, it depends entirely on the task in question.

[kind oar]

new members should be encouraged to reach out to SMEs, if they have researched the topic and thought bout it, and still stuck then they shouldn't be just standing there with no progress.

[vast shoal]

If the whole team is there and hears a brief summary of the issue, the relevant people will know and can stick around after the meeting.

[kind oar]

yeah, but it goes both ways, SMEs will be checking that board or whatever and reaching out to help people.

[vast shoal]

SME?

[kind oar]

I'm not saying standups are bad, I'm just saying they could be replaced with weekly meetings and daily progress updates on a central system.

SME; Subject Matter Experts, or just people who are most experienced about that part.

[vast shoal]

I just think it seems like it'd be way easier to miss someone being stuck if someone with no stake in the issue is the one with the onus to reach out to the person with the issue.

Much easier to have the person with the issue bring it up.

[kind oar]

yeah but there is a meeting after the project is done

guy will say "well i was stuck in that part", manager will then go to you and ask you why you didn't help him.

[vast shoal]

Ok, then someone's been stuck for ages getting nothing done? Sounds very unproductive.

Much better to just get them unblocked the same day or next day.

[kind oar]

he should directly reach out to people, that is his job, if he doesn't know who have most experience in that part then he should reach out to mentor/manager and ask them who to ask.

[vast shoal]

Again, there are daily issues and a system that requires the SMEs reaching out is too likely to result in overlooked issues.

[kind oar]

the board SHOULD be updated daily and checked.

[vast shoal]

Sounds like a lot of work. I think it's more efficient to just have everyone present for a short time each day and get it over with quickly.

[kind oar]

I'm not arguing against updates, I just think that doing so on a central location is more efficient.

[vast shoal]

Also has the added benefit of giving you a sense of what everyone's doing, which is nice.

It's just a 15 minute meeting in any case.

At the same time every day, so you can plan around it.

That's nothing at all.

[honest pivot]

I would definitely prefer to have a quick meeting where we all share what we're doing and where we're stuck, than to have to write down in a tool what I wasn't able to finish at the end of the day.

[vast shoal]

I'd say it's just worth any tedium, assuming everyone learns to get through it efficiently.

[kind oar]

yeah it isn't a big deal, and part of the job if management wants that style, but I'm just saying I think a central location is better IMO.

[vast shoal]

Which they tend to do in my experience.

Our standups are actually usually much quicker than 15 minutes.

[honest pivot]

To me it seems like having a structure that emphasizes lateral communication is important.

[vast shoal]

More like 5-8 minutes-ish

[kind oar]

yeah for the full team

[vast shoal]

Yeah, it's totally worth it.

[kind oar]

so if it is 10 people then that is an hour of the team time, yeah not a big deal, but still, I think most teams use some kind of project management/tracking solution anyways.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, we do that as well, but those serve different purposes.

And they don't have the upsides of a standup.

[kind oar]

but to reply to your point about people will be less likely to reach out, even ignoring that manager will call them out at the end of the week.

in any corporate job, your technical skills have the least effect on your career progression (PS: I'm not saying you will be bad, I just mean you won't need to be the most technically skilled team member).

at a certain point, your technical skills will be almost irrelevant even.

[vast shoal]

Ok. Not sure how that's related.

[kind oar]

because if you are technically skilled in an aspect, but you don't reach out to help people, your career progression will hurt.

so people will want to reach out and not just ignore those people who are stuck.

[vast shoal]

That's a nice theory, but it doesn't correlate with reality in my experience.

[honest pivot]

Why use a system of reprimands at the end of the week when you could use a daily, proactive system?

[kind oar]

then these people can be forever senior software engineer, it is up to them.

[kind oar]

the point is that yeah daily is good when there is actually significant updates/changes happening in daily basis, but if it is just that one or two team members who are always having issues, then manager should just save everyone time and just have those two people directly reach out to the experts in that topic.

as i said yesterday, my opinion is irreverent to your team, if those daily update are needed in your team then they're needed and that is a fact.

[vast shoal]

It's not just up to them, because I want to have a functional team.

[kind oar]

exactly, then these people will face issues/fired for not being a team player, so they WILL want to reach out to help people.

[vast shoal]

Their careers suffer, but the team also suffers, and I can't have that.

[kind oar]

.

[vast shoal]

Maybe it works different where you are, but here, nobody would ever get fired over something like that.

You'd just have an inefficient team.

[honest pivot]

A team motivated by the threat of being fired sounds like a great working environment

[kind oar]

if someone never helps other members of his team and you said it affects team performance over all then he should be fired/moved to a silo unless he changes his attitude.

[kind oar]

if you keep a team member who never helps others when he can, then you got a great team.

[vast shoal]

It's unlikely that someone would decide to never ever help anyone else, you'd just have a way higher rate of people being blocked by something and not getting reached out to and wasting time.

[kind oar]

yeah

[vast shoal]

This all seems pretty contrived to me.

I just like systems that self-correct rather than rely on human perfection.

[kind oar]

I'm just saying, IMO, that would be a more efficient way, but if it doesn't work then it doesn't work.
just an opinion, and as mentioned yesterday, I'm not in tech or an engineer so certainly could be different.

[honest pivot]

It seems like it would be best to have a system that guides people toward better teamwork, rather than one that merely punishes them for poor teamwork.

[kind oar]

yes that system is that if you are bringing good value to the team then you will be rewarded

anyways, that topic is not important that we would be talking about for over a day.

[honest pivot]

Two standups in one day should probably not happen. Or at least they should both be in the morning. It's important to have a solid block of time to work.

Surely Montreal and Vancouver could have been combined

[edgy flicker]

Not sure if this is relevant or not but, does anyone here happen to know about , 'WAN Optimization' ? I've been thinking about it for a while now and wanted to know some stuff.

[gritty rivet]

Maybe better for a different server altogether but you could try #networks

[edgy flicker]

okie

[obtuse ruin]

Hello, anyone know if there is a demand for kivy dev? I just finished a YouTube course on kivy and really like it. I would like to go deep into it, but I don't a lot job posting on this. I'm new to programming. I got the basic of python but still trying to figure out which field to focus on :D

[kind oar]

search for kivy on any job board that works in your country, that should give you an idea.

[obtuse ruin]

Thanks for replying. I just did that and results are 0 hahaha. I will keep kivy as a hobby then. Btw do you know a website that help me choose a path to focus on?

[gritty rivet]

Roadmap.sh in conjunction with job listings

[obtuse ruin]

Thanks 👍

[gritty dawn]

They haven't replied to my follow up email, my guess is that I should have never put my age on my resume.

It's extremely unprofessional how they managed my application.

[kind oar]

they wouldn't have interviewed you if age was a problem for them, but yeah don't put age in there.

[limpid isle]

anyone got advice for your cv and cover letter of a job you want to get

[inner wren]

Hey @amber adder!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[analog sun]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[lucid vapor]

@amber adder Hi, we don't allow recruitment here. There are some job boards in the channel description that would be a better place.

[amber adder]

I talked to the modelers

[lucid vapor]

Yes, and we informed you that it was not allowed. If you'd like to continue this conversation, please reply in your ModMail thread.

[winged raptor]

helo guys. i want to learn javascript to get a job what are some cool projects i could do with that language?

[near ocean]

Some visualisation project, sorting or graph algos sounds cool

[silk river]

Hi guys, do you all want to be softwarw engineers?

[kind oar]

interactive webpages, but if you want to BI stuff then do as mariosis said using d3 or something.

[silk river]

What would your suggestions be for a self employed developer?

[winged raptor]

thanks guys for the help

[dense mesa]

The question is quite vague, if you want a specific response you'll have to be more specific with what you want to know

[vapid jay]

Hi guys

[silk river]

I want to learn more about what ways I can make money as a self employed developer. I already now freelancing is a popular option and I've been doing it for a while now. But I want to explore some other options as well

[vapid jay]

I'm learning full stack as course and as well as a career in it whats the best advice I can it

Get for it*

[silk river]

@dense mesa I meant to reply to you

[tame fern]

When did you know that you wanted to pursue Web dev/ python dev for full time work? The reason why I ask this is that I'm currently a skilled metal fabricator looking for a possible career change due to being board + possibly a bump up in pay. I'm currently learning HTML/CSS on Free Code Camp but I am very hesitant about putting a lot of time into this if It doesn't work out. Cheers

[dense mesa]

What kind of information have you found when Googling/researching your question? And of that information, which specific insights do you feel most applied to your situation?

[silk river]

I found freelancing and I found different platforms like Upwork and Fiverr. I was able to find some other stuff like building an app or designing a website but those seemed just too vague to me. Also, I have thought of developing a public API but I wanted to ask you about more opportunities as a self employed developer

[dense mesa]

The public API sounds interesting, what kind of work would you do, and how would you be paid for it?

[smoky quest]

• freelance/contractor
• sell an app / mobile app / etc.
• sell a software as a service
• build a company/startup

[silk river]

I don't know much about it. I'm just getting to know the ways I can work, that's why I'm asking

[kind oar]

most important thing is good interpersonal skills.
you can be as good as you want, but it will be tough if you sell yourself short (or not sell at all lol).

[silk river]

do you mean soft skills by this?

[kind oar]

yeah, selling your services, being comfortable talking about money, once you have enough experience you can invest some money in and get a website and have someone market your services, will be tough but gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility (and pressure and anxiety haha)

[dense mesa]

Yes I understand, I'm asking you questions to see what interests you and then guiding the conversation towards you finding it out better for yourself

[silk river]

I'm interested in Python in general but I have worked on data science and web development more in depth

[kind oar]

you can find DS stuff on upwork, if you are in a third world country (ie cheap cost of living) then freelancing can be worth waaaaaaaaaaay more than fulltime job locally.

but it is a lot of hassle, clients on upwork are quite cheap, if you are experience I suggest looking for a remote contracting job in america.

[violet goblet]

Is this ok for my experience / responsibility section Worked in an Agile Environment in developing on-demand software using leading edge technologies

[silk river]

Wow, how do you know?

[kind oar]

with the recent economic status, it is quite cheap cost of living.

[smoky quest]

that's a lot of fluff and not really actionable

[ivory sluice]

@silk river we don't allow advertising on the server, that includes promoting your fiverr profile.

[silk river]

Interesting, I already told I am looking for another way of working than Fiverr. I didn't have any intention of promoting but anyways

[violet goblet]

@smoky quest well what else can you say, I can't say a lot since i have signed an none disclosure contract

[vast shoal]

I think it's sufficient to mention that then, you don't need to link to your fiverr profile.

[kind oar]

if you're experienced, look for remote contracting jobs for us companies.

[silk river]

I'm probably not that experienced. In fact I don't know much about how contracting jobs work

[silk river]

Ok, that's fine but I didn't link anything and it's literally same with my Discord nickname. Do I have to change my username as well?

[kind oar]

just let it go man, they deleted the message

[silk river]

Yeah

[vast shoal]

Alright, I didn't check your message until now. That's fine, but there's no need to point out how to find your fiverr profile.

[smoky quest]

You can stay vague or give a more concrete impression

[kind oar]

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?f_TPR=r604800&f_WT=2&geoId=103644278&keywords=analyst&location=United States

make a resume and try your luck

small chance but doesn't take much time to apply

[silk river]

Ok, guys please don't check out my fiverr profile. It's trash anyways and I have stopped working there so even if you checked you wouldn't see anything

[silk river]

Thanks man. Do I have to create a resume on LinkedIn before applying to these?

[kind oar]

create a regular pdf resume, look for template for the field you're applying for online, and then apply

[silk river]

ok, thanks a lot 🙂

[vapid jay]

Django still relevant?

[edgy flicker]

Those brave 80,000 souls

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384> advertising nitro

[brazen widget]

hey guys im in high school
and i want comp sci internships for my college app
any ideas which internships would look the best
or what internships i can get?
and the requirements i would need to meet to get one?

im us based btw i want to get in either NYU or columbia as a comp sci major

[vapid jay]

I like rails, but is django its relevant?

[true harness]

any internship you can get. not many are looking for high schoolers

[brazen widget]

you have any tips for extra curriculars that can get me into a good college aside from internships?

[near ocean]

Hackathons are the big one imho

[true harness]

anything computer related. robotics club, usaco, your schools comp sci club, etc

[brazen widget]

ok thanks

[true harness]

what grade are you in btw?

[brazen widget]

sophomore yr of hs so im in 10th

im planning on taking sat pretty soon and my grades are looking good so i want to start focusing on the extra curricular side of my application

[past talon]

im a sophomore and next year i plan on taking computer science

[brazen widget]

my school doesnt offer it unfortunately so im just trying to learn how to code on my own

[midnight current]

Hello

[low field]

Does the github username "gunraidan" sound too unprofessional? Should I rename my account name to something more appealing to hiring managers?

[buoyant seal]

nobody will care. It is common for github nicknames to be anything dev desires

[hidden berry]

I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds a little funny but no one will care.

[low field]

I made the name up when I was a teenager. Sounded like a cool video game but it's based on some cyberpunk comic thing I never finished. The named just stuck because it's easy to remember.

[smoky quest]

as long as it's not m1lfH4nt3r.
gunraidan is fine.
Worst case, have two accounts; one for portfolio stuff and the other with the rest

[buoyant seal]

sometimes there would be need to have a corporate normal name as a separate account though, but that's not an issue to have anything for your personal one

[low field]

but this is the profile I will use to apply to those corporate jobs though. That's why I'm worried.