career-advice

[serene kindle]

lot of these things were things i never expected

[brittle thorn]

They make you sign a deed of assignment lol

After that i felt bitter too

[serene kindle]

i don't think it's legally valid though

[brittle thorn]

It is

[serene kindle]

yeah my bad.

[summer roost]

ah, bringing an existing codebase in would explain the deed of assignment. It's probably a good idea to not agree to that unless they're offering a generous no-strings signing bonus for it.

[brittle thorn]

Had a bonus but most of us left the company

[summer roost]

well, at that point they're just paying you to purchase the software you wrote, in the form of that signing bonus

[serene kindle]

maybe i should learn how to patent software, and become a billionaire instantly

[brittle thorn]

No lol i was already employed... a bonus and tiny raise

[serene kindle]

i mean, make more money from suing companies than from building tech

[smoky quest]

that's a huge risky bet. and expensive

[summer roost]

software patents need to be for something novel

[brittle thorn]

Better it they did that in the start

[summer roost]

if it's not a new technique or a new technology, it's not patentable

[smoky quest]

they are also aren't free to start. So it means you have to expect the returns are greater than shaking down companies and their lawyers, + application fees + time/energy to devise them

[serene kindle]

i would be so rich if it worked out lol

[brittle thorn]

Later they did file for patent why the deed of assignment

[serene kindle]

nah nvm tbh i don't think patents help a lot

[smoky quest]

go to a faang. safer and faster and less work

[serene kindle]

i just stopped doing open source and hoping to be cited, it was more effective

[serene kindle]

honestly i prefer faang to any startup or inventing

[summer roost]

If being cited matters to you, and you don't like companies taking your work and using it freely, you should use a less permissive license

[serene kindle]

just that back when i was continually failing interviews, i was inventing a lot of things and doing open source

[brittle thorn]

Patents are a hassle lol. Trade secrets easier

[serene kindle]

trade secrets work way better than patents

[summer roost]

patents protect against independent discovery of the same technique by someone else, trade secrets don't.

they serve different purposes.

in fact, they're almost opposites

[serene kindle]

i prefer trade secrets since i always outinnovate everyone anyway. it's just that i cannot outengineer big teams

[brittle thorn]

You have to disclose your process to patent.. then fees

[serene kindle]

of course the open source project was a huge disaster, because our innovation was immediately copied and outengineered

[summer roost]

trade secrets give legal enforcement to your secrets, and makes it so that it's illegal for someone to share those secrets.
patents make it so that your secret sauce is public knowledge, but no one else is allowed to use it for 20 years.

[brittle thorn]

Within some niche i feel the same lol

[serene kindle]

seems like the perfect career for me, to invent like 100,000 innovative things, make 100,000 patents and sell the rights to companies

[brittle thorn]

Patent enforcement in Tech a whole can of worms and trolls

[smoky quest]

make SaaSes out of them

[summer roost]

I don't think software ought to be patentable, personally - or at least, that it needs a much shorter term than for traditional patents. Maybe if congress were functional.

[serene kindle]

i mean it is way more efficient than trying to outengineer every single time

[summer roost]

software patents with a 3 or 5 year term would be much less of a disaster than the current system.

[serene kindle]

i mean i would just sell the patents, the goal is how to make money from innovation. though i know it is not realistic

[brittle thorn]

Lol we wish

[summer roost]

it's essentially the same problem as a startup: you need to be good at selling your ideas.

[serene kindle]

yeah but minus being outengineered by big tech

[smoky quest]

outengineered in tech is actually an outlier

it does happen, but not that frequently relative to the other cases

[summer roost]

startups are much more likely to fail because there was no market for the idea than because someone else stole the market for the idea.

by at least 2 to 1, if you trust the survey of founders of failed startups I linked earlier.

[smoky quest]

stealing an idea is also very expensive comparing to the other alternatives

[summer roost]

that's true, especially consider potential legal fees.

[smoky quest]

so not as frequent in terms of route if the big corp wants something similar

[summer roost]

and acquihires are cheap.

[brittle thorn]

Yes it is a disaster indeed what my former employer patented I have seen others do and do better.. i think nobody is getting sued thou since it will look bad

And a bit laughable for old tech now in common use

[summer roost]

if a big company badly wants the product made by a startup, usually it's more cost effective to buy the startup and hire their engineers to keep working on it than it is to build it themselves from scratch and compete with the startup.

cheaper, better PR, less legal risk, etc

faster time to market, even.

prevents another big company from buying that startup and competing with your big company's version of that product.

[brittle thorn]

Patent troll

[summer roost]

it's a patent troll if the patent claims are spurious, not if they're legitimate

[smoky quest]

or if they just have a portfolio and don't use the patents

[summer roost]

yeah, I suppose patenting something that you have no intention of building yourself is a bit of an abuse of the patent system - but it's not generally what we think of as a patent troll

[serene kindle]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-beats-internal-legal-threat/
Geniatech claimed McHardy has sued companies for Linux GPLv2 violations in over 38 cases. In one, he'd requested a contractual penalty of €1.8 million. The company also claimed McHardy had already received over €2 million from his actions.

yeah i meant it in a legitimate way

[summer roost]

even the legitimate way is - well, not really legitimate

it's not quite the same thing as being a patent troll, but getting patents with the goal of suing to enforce them, rather than of building the technologies, is still an abuse of the patent system

it's just a different abuse of the patent system than the one that we normally call "patent trolling"

[serene kindle]

there's definitely a huge bias against indie developer/inventors though, everyone takes big companies way more seriously just because they are big companies, eg for the amount of 'man hours' put into something

[smoky quest]

I see it less as a bias and more as their impact. A large corp can move a lot more units/$$$/etc. than a noname smb

[serene kindle]

but if i were to invent something that uses 'compute hours' instead of 'man hours' i would just be a troll

[summer roost]

Getting patents with the goal of selling them to big companies would be totally legitimate.
Getting patents with the goal of suing big companies who unknowingly violate them is an abuse of the spirit of patents.

[smoky quest]

note there are also some guerilla tactics against that

[summer roost]

patent enforcement is meant to be a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.

[serene kindle]

nobody likes the idea of one person being a genius inventor who outinvents others, but if some company hires 10 people to work on something it is suddenly legitimate

[smoky quest]

the lone genius inventor doesn't exist in this century. The world is way too complex

[serene kindle]

yeah, except for bitcoin, ethereum...

[smoky quest]

These are iterative ideas

[summer roost]

and, not patented...

[serene kindle]

imagine if google invented ethereum, it would be the most legitimate patent/trade secret ever

[smoky quest]

ethereum wouldn't have worked that well

[serene kindle]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21354906/anthony-levandowski-waymo-uber-lawsuit-sentence-18-months-prison-lawsuit

[smoky quest]

It's like saying if HTTP was a trade secret

[summer roost]

it would still not be very useful. Blockchain is not very useful. There's some edge cases where it's useful, but any use of it needs to be really limited to offset its massive ecological cost, and most cases where it would be useful to businesses, instead trusted third parties like government agencies serve the part of the ledger.

[summer roost]

ya know that's a story about a tech lead at Google stealing code from Google and selling it to a startup, right?

[serene kindle]

that's the spirit

[summer roost]

well, it's also illegal, and cost him his career, millions of dollars, and 1.5 years of his life in prison...

[smoky quest]

fraud is not a business strategy

[serene kindle]

the idea is that the legitimacy of an invention is based on the man hours a rich company spends on it, whereas anything an indie developer invents is debased and worth nothing inherently

[summer roost]

it's really weird that you think companies shouldn't be able to reuse the code that you wrote and released under a permissive license, but it's OK for individuals to reuse the code that a company paid for and did not release under a license that allows reuse

[serene kindle]

like companies can make really mediocre things but it is legitimate, but when a lone person invents something amazing it is not legitimate but a troll

[brittle thorn]

In niche cases probably, it has to be niche or the big companies are all over it in general

[smoky quest]

An invention is so much more than an idea and a piece of code. You have to take it to market and execute on it

[serene kindle]

i don't even mind the inequality and the bias, i just wish people were more straightforward about it

[brittle thorn]

Humans are messy things

[summer roost]

the ideas that are both good and novel are often purchased by companies who can more easily capitalize on them and bring them to market.

[serene kindle]

like when the legal system tries to make something like this into a moral stance... at least admit that it is immoral

[summer roost]

More startups fail because the company wasn't selling a product that people wanted to buy than for any other reasons.

You're giving a lot of emotional arguments, but the facts really don't line up with them.

[brittle thorn]

Write a book about it

[serene kindle]

the concept is that when an open source project uses a license that requires citation, then the company that does not cite it is immediately breaking this license and should be sued $4billion, that seems to be fair

i mean $179 million in this case

[smoky quest]

they may have cited you in a tiny corner in font 5

[brittle thorn]

As indie we dont have legal staff lol

[smoky quest]

along with openssl and whatever other library

[summer roost]

you used a license that doesn't require citation anywhere other than their (private) code... right?

[smoky quest]

if it was that easy money worth millions of dollars, you would have many lawyers offering their services for free

[serene kindle]

yes

lawyers actually spend huge money on ads for things like mesolethemia, and offer free legal etc, because easy sueing money

[smoky quest]

yep

[serene kindle]

i don't mind the inequality and bias, i just wish i knew it earlier so i would have made more efficient decisions

[summer roost]

the apache license 2.0 requires:

• You must give any other recipients of the Work or Derivative Works a copy of this License; and
• You must cause any modified files to carry prominent notices stating that You changed the files; and
• You must retain, in the Source form of any Derivative Works that You distribute, all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices from the Source form of the Work, excluding those notices that do not pertain to any part of the Derivative Works; and (some stuff about a file called NOTICE)
  If they used your work in a derived work that they don't distribute (like something that runs server-side), then they are not required to credit you in any way other than a comment in the source.

If that's not what you wanted, you used the wrong license.

[serene kindle]

i regret the wasted effort and the unrealistic expectations that i had

[brittle thorn]

Never is i broke up with a biz partner over that issue

[brittle thorn]

Lol i had that too

But ok we are still alive

[serene kindle]

yeah

[summer roost]

there are licenses that are much more restrictive than Apache - sounds like you might have preferred the AGPL, which requires that any derived works are also licensed under the AGPL, and that the user of that derived work have full access to the source code of that derived work even if they only access it through a network.

[serene kindle]

i don't even mind throwing all my invention and genius away, i just don't want to waste time/effort on something due to some incorrect perception of reality

[summer roost]

it seems pretty unreasonable to me to blame the company because the license you used allows them to do something that you wish they didn't do.

[serene kindle]

my expectation was that they would cite us, so we would have more legitimacy.

[smoky quest]

It's called a lesson.

I was at a startup before where we were offered tons of cash. The CEO wanted more and said no. The company went down less than a year later for other reasons

[summer roost]

why didn't you use a license that requires that, then?

[serene kindle]

our goal was to be the global standard of technology, having a huge tech company use our standard and cite us would have been an accomplishment. i expected the apache license would make them cite us because 'You must retain, in the Source form of any Derivative Works that You distribute, all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices from the Source form of the Work, excluding those notices that do not pertain to any part of the Derivative Works' but my expectation did not match the actual outcome

*one of our goals was to define the global standard of a technology

[summer roost]

wait, so you've seen their source, and it includes something derived from your code, and it does not include your copyright and license notice?

if so, that is an easy case to win, that a lawyer would likely take pro bono.

[serene kindle]

they were using it as their standard of that technology

[summer roost]

or - not pro bono - what's the one where they only take a cut if you win? That one.

[summer roost]

you didn't answer my question, though - have you seen the source code for their implementation? That part of the license you quoted says "You must retain, in the Source form of any Derivative Works that You distribute" - that's a restriction that applies only to their source code.

[serene kindle]

they had made an API standard using our standard for the technology

so it was displayed on their public website, as the code snippet

we knew about them as well, since one of their engineers spent several meetings with our team learning about our technology in person

[smoky quest]

Let say the big corp was discord. How would the following have helped you? https://discord.com/licenses

[flint owl]

yall are still fussing on this? lmaoo

[serene kindle]

the idea was that we could tell people that we were the global standard of the technology, and encourage cross-compatible adoption across technologies

part of our goal was to be middle men that created interoperable technologies using our global cited standard... except it was not cited in the end

[smoky quest]

that shouldn't be something that make or kill your company though

[serene kindle]

it isn't

[smoky quest]

there should also be tons of money be made with all the tooling, training and activities around it

[serene kindle]

we did a great job teaching the big tech company's lead engineer how to use it

though we did that for free...

it's fine i really don't mind it

[smoky quest]

was it entirely software or were there some hw component?

[serene kindle]

the aspect of the technology standard was entirely software

[smoky quest]

interesting

[astral ermine]

Opinions on the overemployed trend?

[serene kindle]

what do you mean?

[astral ermine]

Typically people working 2 full times remotely

[serene kindle]

i prefer to just work one job than multiple jobs

[astral ermine]

The idea behind it is that the person is skilled enough/has enough downtime that they can juggle both.

[serene kindle]

first issue is is it legal? i would not do it if it was illegal

[astral ermine]

Depends on the company

[serene kindle]

personally i would only work one job. i would not work multiple jobs

[astral ermine]

I have one full time, one part time atm. Both remote
So I was wondering if anyone is juggling 2 full times

[serene kindle]

but it's mostly about the long term liability aspect of it

and also, even if it is legal, it seems to risk long term prospects

unless both your employers are totally knowing and okay with it which doesn't seem likely

[astral ermine]

It's typically done for 3 to 6 months while the person invests, pays debts, etc

[smoky quest]

that's fraud

if not legally accurate, can still be ground for fired/let go

[astral ermine]

Depends on the company contract

[smoky quest]

there is a well understood definition of full time

[summer roost]

In the US (outside of California I think), it's pretty common for your employer to own all the code you write, even when "off the clock"

[serene kindle]

even if it is not 'logical', but in terms of 'tech culture' it is like a big issue

[smoky quest]

that's why moonlighting is common but more than one full time job is frown upon

[summer roost]

You'd need to be very careful about what you've signed.

[smoky quest]

if it's either related to the company's business, or using company resources or on company time

It does also get tricky considering employees are typically exempt from overtime

[serene kindle]

there's contract and then there's company policy.

company policy will be way stricter than the contract

i know 'logically' it seems like someone deserves to be compensated more for working harder, but in reality, this is a bad situation

[smoky quest]

typically, you get compensated for results, not efforts

[serene kindle]

i mean that, someone thinking if they should work 2 jobs would be thinking in terms of 'working harder than others to become more successful' but in reality the situation will be seen as 'betraying the employer's trust'

[smoky quest]

ah yeah.
Being fired for having two jobs is standard

that's also the best way to screw up remote jobs for everyone. But that's more my opinion

[serene kindle]

especially when one is full time and the other is part time, might as well focus on the full time job

[astral ermine]

See in my case, I find both enjoyable and manageable

Full time QA data analyst, part time data analytics teaching assistant

[serene kindle]

the legal aspect gets tricky since a lot of different issues end up coming up at the same time.
-competing with a current employer
-use of trade secrets (between employers)
-who owns the code written for the other employer
it has the potential to become very messy down the road if not careful with it

[brittle thorn]

Used to be 2 side lines one main...Got sick and slowed down

[brittle thorn]

Ah yeah

[astral ermine]

Sorry your health went awry. Hope you're better

[brittle thorn]

Better nao :3

[serene kindle]

if your company does not approve of the teaching assistant job then it seems like a risk

companies are super wary of educational stuff, it's not a 'free zone'

*companies can be super wary of educational things, it's not a 'free for all zone'

the law probably would be more protecting you in this case to work multiple jobs, since it's more differentiated

[astral ermine]

Thanks for the heads up but I've informed everyone at both jobs.

[serene kindle]

yeah in that case you're super fine

if possible inform them in writing such as email as a proof

[smoky quest]

yeah that's different. I was under the impression we were talking about two fte swe jobs

[astral ermine]

I was indeed asking if anyone has done this. My experience prompted curiosity.

I've read about a front end dev having a good experience but I'm not sure I trust their claims lol

[serene kindle]

it has a huge long-term liability to it. for example, imagine if one day the employers decided to cross reference employee lists 5 years from now

nvm i guess that doesn't matter

[smoky quest]

side jobs, moonlighting, renting out appartments/rooms/airbnb, etc. are fine.
But two full time jobs are not a line to cross. Any successful claim you hear don't have the employers aware of it and take a huge risk

[serene kindle]

two full time jobs like that raises special legal issues that might be counter-intuitive without the prior study of it

[smoky quest]

that also assume, in the USA at least, 16h hours of work per day. That leaves less than 8h to sleep, eat and have a life

[brittle thorn]

Always a good policy done same in the past

[serene kindle]

yeah it's good to inform everything at the start of /before starting the job, and never be planning to suddenly say it in the middle

of an employment

[smoky quest]

that is also a great way to tell your company that you don't have enough to do 😉

[brittle thorn]

If it is not by the hour but rather a pay upon project deliverables then it is manageable...

[serene kindle]

i know people will say it's possible to skate by in jobs working few hours but in reality your manager would most likely monitor your performance and tell you to work harder

[north path]

Hello is anyone here willing to dev end to end? We are willing to pay. It’s a simple POS system with requirements and design already. Please pm me if interested. Thank you!

[smoky quest]

yep. Am in a rest and vest situation and could totally handle it. But that would not be appropriate

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. This is #career-advice . Also no ads please. Thanks!

[vapid jay]

hi

[muted spoke]

hello can somebody help me i have some python examples but i dont know how to solve em

[smoky quest]

This channel is named #career-advice . So your question is not in the right place. You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[bronze pond]

Hello, everyone!
I am currently looking for remote data analyst position
I have hands on experience of tools like Python, SQL, Tableau and Excel.
If you have the relevant position for me do let me know.

I can share my project portfolio links in the DM.

Looking forward to hear from you guys 🙂

[deft jasper]

Anyone wanna learn python together dm me
I want a partner to learn with
We can learn together and if we do learn properly we can also work on projects together

[vapid jay]

+1

[dense mesa]

Did my first Leetcode medium question 😄

[vapid jay]

Any uses codingame?

Codingame is shit

If you're going to develop, stick to leetcode, hackerrank and roblox.

[near ocean]

Roblox? Really?

[true harness]

codingame has really fun optimization problems

[vapid jay]

They're easy and unintriguing (if you're actually studying code seriously), otherwise, its good to just have fun I guess

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[near ocean]

if you want to seriously study for interviews you'd be doing codechef, codeforces, euler problems, past google comp problems
not hackerrank and definitely not roblox

[vapid jay]

You forgot leetcode. Also, yes, you're right.

[weary juniper]

Hey guys. Do ya'll think a double major is practical?

Thinking of double majoring in 1) BS Computer Science and 2) BS Applied Mathematics in Computational Science

[vapid jay]

I'm 13 how should I know

Your education is your choice. Study whatever you feel you need.

[weary juniper]

Sure, but just asking if it's practical given the pros and cons

Cons are that it would be more work, and both of those majors are already intense work by themselves

[fading venture]

I would recommend focusing on one. For most people, either major is enough to top tier tech jobs. The rest will depend on independent project work and other skills --- things you won't learn during the major, and will not have time for if you are overloaded.

[weary juniper]

Thing is I'm looking at the descriptions and classes of both majors and they're both really interesting to me

[fading venture]

If you're truly interested in the topics, then go for it. But I think most programming and math topics have a lot of free resources online available to learn if that's your goal. Majors often come with a large time and money commitment, so I think it's worth it mostly for the publicly visible qualification.

Is your focus going to be on getting a good job? Accumulating knowledge? Going into academia? Starting your own company?

[weary juniper]

I think I'm focused on those first 3 things, not necessarily the last one. I want to work in the bleeding edge of tech, whether that be in industry designing products, or in academia performing research. I'm also a big fan of learning for the sake of learning, which is why I'm self-learning these fields while I'm still in high school. But I still want to go and obtain a "formal" education in these fields because I recognize that it's hard to self-learn past a certain level, and nothing beats the networks you form

[dense mesa]

May be a good idea to say this explicitly before giving career advice

[vapid jay]

Uhh, I did?

[dense mesa]

I mean here

[gilded valley]

if your goal is to be working as a researcher on something like Machine Learning, then the typical path for that is Bachelors -> Masters (not always) -> PHD -> Employed by someone who is doing incredibly advanced research, Google or whoever.

If that's the path you end up taking, then there's a good chance a double major would be valuable for your future

[vapid jay]

The number 1 mistake with publicising your age is people will judge you off it. I don't like sharing my age, but for that particlar question, I had to be sure to not give false advice. Thus, I shared my age.

[weary juniper]

Yep I'm thinking about taking that path

[dense mesa]

That's understandable, however this is for career discussion specifically

[vapid jay]

Does that mean I cannot participate?

[dense mesa]

No, and no one is saying that. But as @near ocean pointed out, the suggestion for Roblox isn't completely suitable here

[vapid jay]

That's pretty damn obvious sir
Unfortunately, you took that seriously.

Hi my friends

Can anyone guide me about how we can take this python seriously I mean in which field??

[near ocean]

What do you mean take python seriously? How else would you take it?

[jovial moth]

i believe its mostly in working with data, but also in other fields such simple websites or apps

[lunar lake]

can someone help me get started with python?

please

[jovial moth]

i started a week ago and found out this https://campus.datacamp.com

its interactive course where youll be trying codes

[lunar lake]

ok

[last moat]

0-1k$/month. Depends on how many projects he is doing.

You need to spend 10 hours per day for month or two to become beginner/intermediate programmer. Market is oversaturated these days. Learning doesn't guarantee money. Try hard and be patient for few months.

Web designing is easy to learn and it is very generic and alot of people are learning and trying to enter in freelance market. Learn something different like Quality assurance test automation, data science, machine learning, Ai.

Start with Data science

Python is one of the easiest programming language. You can learn it within a month. Most data scientist use Python and R language. There are pretty good data science libraries in python. For Machine learning, Ai you need python again. In short, learn python if you are new in programming.

Manipulate data, visualize data, work with CSV files and databases etc..

[ivory sluice]

please don't participate if you don't wish to participate constructively

[toxic venture]

Is anyone in sports analytics or in the sports industry? I'm a very new developer with 7 months of experience but I don't feel like I'm enjoying what I do so I def need to switch soon for my sake and my company's sake. I would want to be fully invested in my work. Can anyone share their experiences. I specifically would like to get into Soccer world

[digital flower]

@toxic venture if you build it will come 🚀

[bitter turtle]

i just found out that C++ is detailed version of python

I've been doing competetive programming since 1 month and after recording the correct answers from the hardest questions, I've concluded that python barely stands in competetive programming but with 1+ yr of experience i dont really wanna quit python soo if anyone is competetive programmer and uses python then please guide me.

[true harness]

in many competitions python is too slow, that's why most people use cpp or java

you only need a very small subset of the language to do competitive programming, and since you have the python experience already you'll probably be able to pick it up quickly

[bitter turtle]

hmm well yeah I've been able to get rank around 2k when there are like 10k or more ppl are participating but by "you only need a very small subset of the language to do competitive programming" what do you mean?(srry im dumb)

[true harness]

you don't have to learn everything about cpp to use it in competitive programming. just a tiny bit

[bitter turtle]

oh yeah, but what do i need to learn?

[true harness]

https://cses.fi/book/book.pdf

[bitter turtle]

like ive been in to loops and you know the most hard questions and in which i get stuck are mostly of arrays and its not simple array, ive been practicing array but still i dont know how to play with array, can you teach me about it?

[bitter turtle]

this book is of C++

[true harness]

it is

[bitter turtle]

well thanks, have a good day

[true harness]

my point is that python is very hard (since it's so slow) to use, and you're probably better off switching to a faster language

[bitter turtle]

Oo i see

[vapid jay]

can i get such pdf for python

[true harness]

I'm not aware of one

[sand hemlock]

but if time isn't issue and need to calculate big number then python can handle it for you easily and c++ and others will need creative solution

[weary juniper]

Cool book!

[true harness]

ya godlynerd sent it

[weary juniper]

Who is godlynerd?

[true harness]

godlygeek, a mod here

[old silo]

👀

[weary juniper]

Oh. Godly nerd, indeed they are

[spice tide]

lmao just a thing i saw, every other help channnel around me has been helped expect mine

[analog sun]

Is there a difference in how your question is worded and the others?

[toxic venture]

Does a testing function need an assert statement? Would a print statement stating what happened be acceptable?

[analog sun]

Off-topic for this channel, but usually testing means using a testing framework. A debugging print statement can be helpful in development though.

[toxic venture]

@analog sun oh whoops sorry about that I didn't realize I wasn't in the general chat. But, I appreciate your response! Thanks!

[buoyant seal]

assert is highly required.... unless the test you wrote is not meant to be run automatically with all other tests
and just meant for manual usage to test some theory one-few times.

testing framework is not meant to output print informations in regular run. If everything works fine, then stdout is not even needed 😉

unless those aren't lint/unit/integration tests
in tests like Coverage tests, Performance tests we would be wishing for stdout output I guess

[toxic venture]

Ahh gotcha that makes sense

[vapid jay]

Is python can be used in compitative programming

[indigo tapir]

Question for programmers that did not start working in the US and now works and lives there, or for anyone that knows, how did you do it? how difficult it is? Ty!

[bronze sinew]

Anyone knows how to remember 1000 formulas in a day?

[dense mesa]

Wrong channel but flashcards

[bronze sinew]

Ok

[small tree]

Yes

[solemn perch]

Looking for a mentor

[smoky quest]

You may want to try on another channel like #python-discussion ? This channel is about #career-advice

[solemn perch]

Thanks! @smoky quest

[hazy heart]

There was a conversation about this earlier today, ill see if i can link you it so you can see what they had to say

#career-advice message

[thick juniper]

Should one put his use of common or popular libraries in his resume? For example, I know a bit about the pandas library and I'm wondering if I should include it in any future resumes I submit.

[dense mesa]

Yes definitely, but only mention ones that are popular enough to be known, as you said pandas, maybe numpy, keras, etc

[thick juniper]

Thanks. How will I know if something is popular enough? With pandas it seems easy.

[dense mesa]

I would put a few on and be prepared to talk about all of them if asked, the popularity shouldn't be a huge problem. It's more to do with them being able to ask you if they're already familiar with the library, but shouldn't be a big deal imo

[thick juniper]

Sounds good. Especially since the only one I know so far is pandas. 😆

Just planning for the future.

Thanks again.

[dense mesa]

Nw :) a good rule of thumb could be: if I look up this library online, are there loads of tutorials and documents for help

[primal pine]

People usually test cs fundamentals such as OS, networks and databases but i dont really remember them, are there any resources for those ? I dont remember anything, but i have a test asking them in a day, so i need to refresh. Ill likely fail so ill appreciate any resource for the future too.

[sudden quartz]

just a good luck?

doesnt help

[sudden quartz]

you mean for an interview? its typically data structures, else varies depending on the job. just speed read some books?

[primal pine]

Was gonna ask for recommended resources

[sudden quartz]

it will

[primal pine]

Im fine to fail i just wanted to know if theres resources

[sudden quartz]

wikipedia and youtube, online study guides for the courses from universities who release them, etc.

or released exams @primal pine

[primal pine]

Alright

i just need a general refresher for now i guess, i'll go read more later

[summer roost]

How much experience do you have? What sort of job are you applying for?

[primal pine]

0 experience, and im trying to look for swe jobs. I really feel incompetent with my lack of knowledge

[summer roost]

You say you don't "remember" CS fundamentals... Why not? Have you been pursuing a CS degree?

[primal pine]

yes, its just been a really long time since then i guess... 2 years, yes i have 2 degrees in CS , i have no idea what ive been doing with myself

yes

[summer roost]

I'm not sure how much we can help, really. We can tell you what things are likely to be asked about, but 1 day isn't really enough time to do much brushing up on any of those things.

[primal pine]

its fine, im ok for failing but i just need to be better for future interviews, its rather pathetic that i graduated and dont remember anything

[summer roost]

the most useful things to brush up on will be data structures and algorithms - linked lists, binary trees, dynamic arrays, and hash tables will be the most likely things they'll ask about. You'll want to know things like the big-O of inserting at the start of a linked list, the start of an array, the end of a linked list, the end of an array, looking up an item in a hash table versus a sorted array versus an unsorted array.

they probably won't go much more into operating systems than knowing about the distinction between kernel space and userspace, and maybe something about what syscalls are.

[primal pine]

i see, thank you. surprising i dont remember msot of this

[summer roost]

for databases, you'll want to know about normalization, how keys work, and the difference between different types of joins. Maybe something about aggregate functions and GROUP BY

[primal pine]

i'll read ctci too for future stuff

[summer roost]

that's a good call.

[graceful mason]

Make sure you only list stuff relevant to the job you're applying for - if it's for something like data science/ai you definitely want to be familiar with the popular libraries, list them, and have some example projects on kaggle/github

[sudden quartz]

5 interviews is harrassment.
Thoughts on lying about projects?

[summer roost]

lying how?

As a general rule, lying on a resume is not a good idea

[brittle thorn]

Lying not a good idea almost anywhere lol

If you do lie prepare for the lie to be uncovered and and also for whatever consequences that entails.. Somebody said honesty is the best policy

Once you are discovered as a liar who would ever trust you ....

[summer roost]

beyond the fact that it might ruin your relationship with the company if they find out you lied when applying, there's also a chance that it gets you a job that you're underqualified for, and doing badly at a job that you're not qualified for will work out worse for you in the long term than doing well at a job that you're qualified for

[smoky quest]

5 interviews is pretty standard and not on the high side.
Also don't lie.

[thick juniper]

Don't lie. It's bad for you.

[smoky quest]

Also while the candidate may think of themselves as smart enough to lie (first hint they aren't that smart), they forget that the interviewers have likely talked to dozens for candidates of that position and if not hundreds/thousands of candidates over the course of their careers. It becomes somewhat easier to spot unusual answers and liars at that point

[summer roost]

when it comes to the resume, a resume is an ad for the candidate. You want to paint yourself in the best possible light, since it is an advertisement, but you don't want to lie, because no one likes falling victim to false advertising

and of course, lying in a business relationship can be considered fraud, so it may actually be illegal, at least if it's provably false.

[drowsy plank]

I start a full stack developer job Monday, moving from Java on the backend to Python with Flask. Any advice on how to get productive quickly and be useful?

[summer roost]

ask a lot of questions.

[thick juniper]

I have absolutely no advice, but congratulations!

[drowsy plank]

This will be my second developer job, I worked at my last one for about a year and a half but it was pretty toxic. The senior dev there got angry whenever I asked questions about the backend so I never really improved, I hope it’ll be different at this new place

[summer roost]

most people will want you to succeed, and want to help you get up to speed. Asking questions is the best way to get there.

[smoky quest]

• Read the source code
• pick up some docs/books on flask and the tooling at that company
• Try to google the questions that are googleable first (ex: how do I ___ in flask), but do not hesitate to go ask questions that are more about tribal knowledge (ex: how is the code deployed?)
• Try to establish a weekly 1-1 with your manager
• Ask your manager what are the criteria for success for you in 1-3-6-12 months
• Do not come in and shit on everything. Wait a few weeks to understand better how things work

[summer roost]

ooh, that's a very good point about the best type of questions to ask

[drowsy plank]

Yeah I’m really going to try to limit my question asking until it’s absolutely necessary, at this point I should be moving from junior dev to mid level so I need to not have my hand held too much. I’ve also been reading the docs on flask and sql alchemy to prepare

[balmy spade]

With emphasis that if you are stuck, ask. It's not a weakness to ask questions. Mixed with a healthy "this is what I've already looked for", it's actually a strength.

[smoky quest]

new hires always have questions, even when they are at senior/lead/principal/architect. So don't hesitate to ask

[drowsy plank]

@smoky quest don’t worry, I’m not one of those devs that says all of the code base is shitty, that was my last manager and I don’t like that mentality lol

[summer roost]

That's the opposite of what I was advising. Junior developers have a tendency to get stuck for days on a problem where someone more senior could unblock them in minutes. Asking the right questions to the right people is a strength, not a weakness.

[drowsy plank]

I got yelled at a lot at my old place when I asked, hopefully this new place will be less toxic @summer roost

[summer roost]

sounds like a very good thing that you left that job, honestly. Most places aren't like that.

I promise 🙂

[balmy spade]

It's a challenge, to ask a question. Doubly that you had such a negative environment for them. Trust your ability to look information up and trust your gut when you know you're just spinning. Asking before you spin is a heck of a skill to learn, but so very much worth it.

[drowsy plank]

We had a head backend guy that gate kept everything and was really abrasive / combative, so I just stuck to the front end because he didn’t touch it. Part of the reason I changed was because of that because I don’t want to just do front end, I really want to contribute in all areas

[sudden quartz]

standard for who

[smoky quest]

for most job interviews

[drowsy plank]

I one informal interview, a project to do, then a follow up interview :b

[smoky quest]

wow that's pretty short. But hey good for you!

[summer roost]

I generally expect a screening interview, at least 2 technical rounds, and at least 1 interview with a manager, plus a conversation with HR

[drowsy plank]

It was kind of a big project, I was given a week to complete it so I’d say that’d count for a few interviews lol

[smoky quest]

wow that is not common. Most companies avoid that because tons of candidates complain about the time it takes to do it

(or that the company is trying to have them work for free on their super secret product)

[drowsy plank]

I don’t like coding challenges so it was fine by me, and the challenge wasn’t relevant to their work, it was like a todo style project

[sudden quartz]

5 interviews for entry level

[drowsy plank]

Yeah I’ve never seen that personally, my first job was only one interview lol, but these are smaller companies

[smoky quest]

lmao, I have had full day interviews

[sudden quartz]

not worth it, ive heard of people being flown out for interviews. Hello no

[smoky quest]

@mortal hornet no dm please

[mortal hornet]

ok

[smoky quest]

yep, that's your right to only accept <5h interviews. But you are also closing yourself off to most job opportunities

It will mostly be interpreted as you not being good enough as too scared to go through it or too entitled to be worth it

[smoky quest]

you can still ask your question here

[summer roost]

I think the normal amount of interviewing for a job is in the neighborhood of 4 to 6 hours total, across all rounds.

The all-day ones are often all day because of culture fit stuff - the team wants to have lunch with you to see if you get along well with them, or things like that.

[sudden quartz]

horrible.

Any1 advice for getting into edgai/tinyml jobs? Just in my free time, get good at it huh. how does a cs degree survive

[sharp matrix]

hi)

tensor flow experts?

[smoky quest]

If you are junior, then just apply to such jobs

[smoky quest]

Hi! This channel is named #career-advice and is about #career-advice . You should look at #❓｜how-to-get-help to increase your chances of meaningful help

[drowsy plank]

CS is a good degree man, I didn’t have any trouble finding jobs, I just applied myself in school and did some personal projects to show to employers

[mortal hornet]

hey ok
do
so
im farmer
i use program called Mycodo
open source
super cool for farmers
first time using it with relays
ive built my box with the relays, pi, and wiring. all tested and good to go
im trying to input my first script
it takes the tempp from my temp sensor
if temp below 15, turn on relay
if above 15 turn off

here is the default code they give me for my first conditional

[smoky quest]

junior job are more about growth potential and nice attitude than deep expertise.
While projects in that area can only help, they should not be a blocker

[smoky quest]

I know I told you to ask your question here, but I thought it was about #career-advice . If it's not, you should look at #❓｜how-to-get-help

[mortal hornet]

oh, ok sorry

[astral steeple]

pls help

[smoky quest]

np. Sounds like an interesting question though

[glacial bronze]

Can you even get an interview without projects?

In school I kinda got by while falling short on work, contributing jack shit, or straight up defaulting on all my projects even though im about to start my last semester

[frozen gate]

Previous work experience, even if it’s a minimum wage retail job, helps too

[glacial bronze]

yeah i have all the other goodies

[frozen gate]

Shows that you can show up and do your work

[glacial bronze]

i have plenty of work experience and one solid swe internship (i didnt code jack shit during it though...)

[astral ermine]

Are you looking to apply for swe roles?

[glacial bronze]

@astral ermine Anything, AI, data science, security, SWE, even computer forensics

[astral ermine]

If you already have the swe experience in your resume, I'd just try and ace the technical part of interviews

[glacial bronze]

ill probably not ace them

[astral ermine]

Then make projects. You'll learn and also have something to showcase

[glacial bronze]

i had a Meta interview and coulnt even check palindrome and failed first interview

[frozen gate]

Practice technical interview questions

[smoky quest]

Looks like you got some interviews but the problem is passing them.
You may want to practice and buff up your projects/experience

[frozen gate]

Also FAANG/MANGA is known for having leetcode interview questions, non tech companies might not do that or the nature of the technical interview asks you different questions like what is OOP and stuff about Python

[smoky quest]

Note also that targeting faang will require a serious change of attitude. Competition is plentiful and serious there

[glacial bronze]

no, Meta was the only interview i got lol

[smoky quest]

how many applications have you done?

Feel free to share an anonymized version of your resume here for review as well

[frozen gate]

And if you’re getting a low interview rate maybe it’s your resume

[glacial bronze]

like 25+ at least

[frozen gate]

Uh, you should pump those numbers up—I think a hundred something, tailored to the respective companies would help

[astral ermine]

I remember when I started job hunting, I sent around 120+. My resume sucked so I heard back from only a few places.

[glacial bronze]

it takes so long, ill share a resume

do you do cover letters too?
i am really specific about where i apply as well so mabye that helps with the low numbers?

[frozen gate]

I’ve heard AI/ML jobs are picky and want grad school too, while I think data science is a tiny bit less pickier and you can work your way up from data analyst

[smoky quest]

if there are only weak projects and internships on their resume, it may also be in their disfavor comparing to all the other new grads

[astral ermine]

In your opinion, is a short stint (3mo or less) better left out of experience in resume?

[smoky quest]

I even have random new grads pinging me on linkedin for jobs. Competition is plentiful

[smoky quest]

Depends on the experience. It's normal for some internships to only be 2-3 months, especially in undergrad

(depends on country, degree, etc.)

[astral ermine]

Do employers typically call to confirm these internship experiences?

[smoky quest]

never have heard of that. But I am sure if they have a connection there or if some claims are odd, then they could

[glacial bronze]

most internships are 3 months right...

[frozen gate]

Also I think it helps if you run your resume through an ATS scanner

[smoky quest]

what kind of jobs are you applying to?

[astral ermine]

Looks like one of those military REDACTED documents with all that blackout

[smoky quest]

for swe jobs, it's very weak

it reads more as a project manager than a swe

[glacial bronze]

i see, ive been applying to all sort of software jobs with this

[smoky quest]

I am not gonna sugar coat it because it wouldn't help you. But if I see a resume like that, I would not call back

[glacial bronze]

so deck the organization bit and add projects?

also remove the research position and the tutor position?

[smoky quest]

• Make it more tangible and action oriented. Too much bs/buzzwords
• Have some projects
• Add some technical skills that aren't just the base coursework of an undergrad

Basically make it sound like an engineer's resume.

Research/tutoring stuff is fine. Lots of students have that and is a positive thing

[frozen gate]

Maybe expand on what libraries you know, the job says you need to know numpy and pandas, you write it on the resume

[glacial bronze]

i usually add that stuff on the cover letter or job application itself

[astral ermine]

Would udemy courses help on resume or should they be on LinkedIn? Or not at all lol

[smoky quest]

also don't lie. If you put numpy/pandas, make sure you learn about them and can handle interview questions.
As a rule of thumb, anything on your resume is fair game for questions

[glacial bronze]

dont add courses just skills

[smoky quest]

they don't help, other to say that you like to learn new things in general.

[frozen gate]

People don’t really care about certs unless it’s something like AWS

[glacial bronze]

yeah i know numpy/pandas, not like i would pass a test on it tomorrow.

mabye i would if its super easy

[smoky quest]

I have had candidates putting stuff at scale on their resume. But when you start asking "soooo what have you done at scale?" and they can only answer "big things, like at scale", then the interview becomes pretty short

don't be these people

[astral ermine]

Do you hire swes?

[smoky quest]

yeah

[glacial bronze]

idk why i didnt add projects tbhhhh

i just feel guilty because i didnt do or finish some

well i "did" them, just not finish

[smoky quest]

yeah, doing jackshit is incurring some debt and it's gonna be more effort to catch up.
But the good news is that you can fix it and get back on track with some work

So don't worry about the past and focus on how to improve the future

[glacial bronze]

i wish i had time but i have a SWE offer for when i graduate... its from the internship

[smoky quest]

that sounds like a good problem to have. Much better place than students doing jackshit and having nothing at the end

[glacial bronze]

its just i have to move to a new state for it... i dont necessarily want to. i have a good city for jobs in my own state capital. basically i wish i had options, but its also a position/job opportunity i love

[smoky quest]

which state?

[glacial bronze]

mine is NC im moving to philly

so raleigh vs. philly. raleigh is better id say

[smoky quest]

from my limited knowledge of east coast, yeah raleigh is more well known

[glacial bronze]

also the city isnt shit like philly so it kinda sucks

im gonna die...

[summer roost]

I'm in Philly, I love it culture wise. It's not the biggest tech hub, but if you have a job offer that doesn't matter much.

[glacial bronze]

can you explain the culture!

i also havent lived alone before let alone rent an apartment

[summer roost]

We've got great bars and restaurants, a decent night life and concert scene, and excellent museums and art galleries. We're a 90 minute train ride from NYC, 60 minute drive from Atlantic City. On the flip side, there's a lot of poverty. We're the poorest city of our size in the country. Public transit is meh. But most buildings are 2 or 3 stories, there aren't a ton of huge apartment buildings. Residential and commercial neighborhoods blend together well. We have a higher rate of home ownership than most cities.

Most people have back yards, too, which is cool for a city.

[glacial bronze]

im just looking for a place to live and walk to work. or train if its not costly

[summer roost]

Public transit isn't too great, we've got only 2-ish subway lines, one north-south and one east-west with some small spurs off them. There's a regional rail as well, going out into the suburbs with a few stops in the city. If your goal is to walk or train, you'll need to plan out where to live a bit, it does limit your options compared to a city with a more extensive subway system

Couple of very good universities in Philly, too. University of Pennsylvania, Drexel, Temple, University of the Sciences

Which might matter if you were interested in pursuing a masters, or considering settling in the area more permanently

[glacial bronze]

bold of you to assume I can get accepted into grad school

professor is my dream job but academia is for... the quick of mind

i am depressed and slow, still smart but lack the speed

[summer roost]

I know a few academics, it sounds terrible to me compared to a job in industry. Professors are overworked and underpaid, and doctoral candidates and post-docs even more so.

[smoky quest]

do something fun or that interests you.
Interviewers won't care about the nature of the projects. They care about the demonstrated skills. So you can kill two birds with one stone, if coding is fun to you

If you aren't interested in coding, there are tons of tech jobs that do not require writing code. From pm, technical sales, to technical writer and developer relations

[glacial bronze]

i mean yeah it can be fun i guess, not when you have 5 tech projects due simultaneously whose difficulty makes you feel dumb, but ive found software worth building on my own, i think im just depressed and burnt out. ive wanted to get into open source but i never find the motivation. in fact... this current break is the longest and only real break ive had in a long time

[smoky quest]

well, now you don't have that pressure of having all these projects to be delivered at the same time and no constraint on their nature

Some candidates show up with games or other random projects

[glacial bronze]

true but i also have time to rest now. but ill try to get over my burnt out. also important i also dont feel like i can make software! for example lets say i want to make a handwriting recognizer. i have no idea where to start or how to engineer all these things together. i feel totally incompetent as an engineer

[smoky quest]

I mean, the main priority is your health, and do whatever you need to feel better

In terms of projects, start small and decompose them in smaller chunks until manageable. You don't go from zero to handwriting recognizer. You would it decompose it in chunks/modules like collecting the handwriting, cleaning it, how to go about recognizing it...

[smoky quest]

and for handwriting recognition, you could look at a bunch of tutorials around mnist, whether they use deeplearning or not. It's a classic.

[glacial bronze]

true. literally cannot remember my last break. ive always worked. even during school before with full course load
ive studied handwriting recognition models in my deep learning course so yee

ive really been focusing on my health this break

[summer roost]

I've been a professional software dev for quite a while now, and I have no idea how I'd write a hand writing recognizer. Most projects start with research. No one just knows how to build every possible thing.

[ivory marlin]

In Namibia.......all the companies want to see it certificates. We have alot of intellectual idiots in high positions.

[frozen gate]

Publish or perish has put me off academia

[lavish aspen]

Sorry @dense plinth I will move my question there.

[brittle thorn]

Hi, yes take your time to recover... I had my own medical issues that forced me off the labor force but i returned not only better but with a better perspective on life. I burned myself out once with a main job and two side jobs...not worth it long tern but did make a great deal while doing it. I think doing things in a sustainable manner is better all around. There is more to life than work and it was something I had to learn the hard way .. by getting sick lol

[brittle thorn]

I had a friend who worked optical character recognition with C# and openCV years ago. It never was perfected and hence he abandoned it and I helped him as he moved on to another project that led to a startup.. Sometimes it is ok to abandon projects to move on to stuff that can be a better investment of time and energy. It is only you however who can make that call. Persistence is a virtue but be smart about it realize that there are opportunity costs and there may be better projects around the corner while you are stuck with your project and banging your head needlessly...

[brittle thorn]

A way to perhaps rekindle your interest and get experience and perhaps some cash is to look for problems around you that you can solve wlth code....and you dont even need to do that solo if the problem is interesting.. It can even become a startup. I have seen that myself.. interesting problems attract talent

[brittle thorn]

Keep your spirits up, remember that times arent normal given we are in the 3rd year of a pandemic.. This will be over soon and hopefully the job market and life in general will be better.

[gilded valley]

There's plenty of people who transitioned into software development who are older than you. In the pins of this channel is a reddit post from a guy who self-taught programming, and he was in his 30s when he got his first software job

[safe loom]

I'm in the same situation even though I feel like a talentless hack in comparison of CS college students

[near ocean]

what's your current degree?

that's setting you up perfectly, why are you so worried

[tawny silo]

kk.

Has anyone completed all the Python courses?
I'm still learning.

[true harness]

what courses

[gilded valley]

Employers, in the UK at least, really don't seem to care about what your degree title is - as long as you can demonstrate the skills they're looking for

I'm in a data science team at a largeish finance company, there's people who did physics degrees, maths degrees and all sorts who got hired without much of a tech background

[tawny silo]

yes

I'm still learning Python from codecademy.com

[lyric eagle]

The tech industry entry level market is so oversaturated with entry level applicants. A degree can get you a job and a nice portfolio can get you a job. Most certs don't hold up in most fields I find

[gilded valley]

Assuming you're still studying - I also did a software development internship at American Express. There were plenty of people there who came in from non-CS degrees who had only very minimal prior programming skills, so if you can find somewhere to do an internship whilst studying, you could even end up with relevant experience at the end of your degree when you're looking for jobs @vapid jay

[tawny silo]

I'm almost done learning python though and once im true, ill just create an App Like Facebook or one better like that

Or Like Twitter OR Better.

[gilded valley]

yeah, that seems like an annoying issue - didn't realise that was a problem for international students

[gritty rivet]

LOL I'm trying to break in to development in my forties, my degree is even less relevant than yours and I have no experience but I'm still getting interviews at least. You are not that behind :)

[frigid night]

[Seeking advice] Hi y'all, I'm a water resources engineer for a major company. Got my professional license and have been doing this for 10 years. I've been teaching myself programming to eventually leave the industry. I recently found a group in my company that does data science and have been networking with them to learn what they do.

Problem - I'm uninspired by my job and the market I work in is hot. I got a job offer on the table at a smaller company with better a better culture and more money that does not have a programming/data science arm.

I guess I'm debating whether I should take this job offer. I feel having exposure to the data scientists at my company is worth more for my career right now.

[gritty rivet]

Doesn't sound worth staying to me unless you really get a lot of useful day to day interaction with data where you are now. You can still keep in touch with those data science contacts if you leave. If your new job has better work-life balance it will leave you more time for personal learning and projects

[azure pendant]

hi
I am developing skills in python. I need some career guidance like how can I earn as a freelancer and how to actually approach someone who can offer me a job.

[sudden quartz]

There should be websites but im not sure low lucrative it would be for a beginner, entry level, contractor. You gotta be really skilled and python is an easy widely used language.

[azure pendant]

if possible can you share link in dm. i'm beginner just wanted to start something to learn and explore more

[sudden quartz]

try google. you gotta be real good at it to be a freelancer/contractor. i dont do it myself, i just know there are sites. I forgot their names

[frigid night]

Thanks for the input. That is true, I'm not getting a daily interaction with them so I feel as if I'm running on the hope that I'll get to bring that work to my region (very unlikely) and become marketable quicker to build my resume.

This is learning and developing that I need to do on my own time (or unethically on the job).

The extra money could help in saving for a bootcamp and/or extended time off if I go that route.

[hasty harness]

Hi,
I am comp sci graduate.
I am interested in data science/machine learning field.
I have made a learning path by myself. My end goal is to be financial analyst. So apart from sales and insurance use case, can someone suggest me a good use cases of ds in financial sector?

I chose that domain because i am passive investor and i want to merge the analytical field with my financial field

[lyric eagle]

To all the "software engineers" how many hours do you work a week

[near ocean]

the number of hours stipulated in the contract

[gritty rivet]

Just because you mentioned the bootcamp option... I recently graduated from the Python backend program with Nucamp. If you're still trying to master the basics of Python and SQL I would recommend it. Very affordable for a boot camp, 15-20 hrs week. Not directly focused on data science (more about backend with Flask and Django, a bit of DevOps) but could help you with a lot of relevant basics of you need the foundation

[sudden quartz]

predictive modelling, duh

[near ocean]

if youre worried that the industry works more than the average 37.5-40h per week then dont, everyone i know (thats a software dev) works those hours

[gritty rivet]

@frigid night for data science specifically I have a friend who did Metis but his review is a bit mixed. It cost a lot and took him 9 months to finally get a job. He ended up going into data engineering so half the stuff in the bootcamp wasn't that relevant

That one is full time too

[frigid night]

I'll take a look. My time management could really benefit from a structure program - but with my ways, it has to keep my interest. I'm almost done with automate the boring stuff. At the same time I'm researching how to web scrape for my job. You mentioned you were 40 - do you have kids and a full-time job? How did you balance that boot camp?

Yea to be honest I have no idea what I want to do. Data appeals to me cause I see it being used in my industry.

Looking at the nucamp schedule right now. Hmm this could be feasible.

[gritty rivet]

Married but no kids. Basically while I was in the bootcamp I put in a couple hours per night during the week and then pretty full days most Saturdays and Sundays. The only rigid time requirement is 4 hours on Saturday mornings. If you have a supportive partner even with kids it's pretty doable

It's good that you already know basic Python, that gave me a big advantage over other students

I'll DM you my portfolio so you can see what I learned

[frigid night]

The wife is a nurse so will need to work some weekends 😆 Still, can make this work with a babysitter.

Yes please do! You got my interest.

[thick juniper]

I'm in my mid-thirties and I take care of my daughter full time plus still do some writing on the side. I study at night, while she's down for her nap, and both study and write Saturday mornings while my wife takes her. The transition will keep us a bit poorer and a bit more stressed this year than we would have been if I'd stayed as a full time freelance writer or if I'd gone back to the practice of law, but we're looking to next year and all the years after that. It'll be worth it.

[worthy gust]

Hello!

I am an aspirant computer scientist, currently learning python and I bought a few exercise books and a giant algorithms book called "algorithms by Thomas coremen 3rd Edition". I'm not sure how to go about the book, should I get myself familiar with other resources that might supplement my learning, not entirely sure. If someone with some experience may point the way, it would mean the world to me 🙂 . Thank you.

[lyric eagle]

Do go to freecodecamp and do their classes

[frigid night]

Nice man. I got to keep in mind the alternative if I kept taking it easy. I'd be have these same thoughts forever. Need to show the kid that happiness takes work and is achievable. It's crazy how big coding communities are online and how quick we can get help from people across the world. My industry is lagging hard in that sense.

What are you working on?

[near ocean]

Intro to Algos by Cormen, also known as "the bible" is more of a reference book than a textbook to read front to back
I would try to learn the content from elsewhere and use cormen to just refer to technical details instead of trying to learn from it, its dense af

[sudden quartz]

if you are wanting to be a computer scientist what is your goal? are you sure you'll be able to do research? you should start with something more complex and fundamental than python.

[true harness]

MIT uses python for their dsa classes, i'm pretty sure it's good enough

[true harness]

try looking at mit opencourseware. it's a bunch of lectures + psets from their classes

[vapid jay]

https://imgur.com/5IhscMj a software dev told me this, are salaries actually like this in the us?

[dense mesa]

Huge respect for you man, it's huge what you're doing for them and I hope they appreciate it

[lofty arch]

Is it actually possible to study Python or programming on your own from for example youtube/online courses, and then apply to average/high salary jobs within 6-12 months?

What would be a normal junior/entry roles salary in todays world? I know it varies alot but, any approx or guess?

I see I see. I thought 40k was average salary but again depends on the country

learning python and c++ or java should be good enough to start with? then put time into making own projects/stuff to show off?

As a junior programmer, do you find it hard? Stressful? Or is it actually fun and giving? Just asking loosely

Do you work normal weeks or more? Thinking 20k sounds like normal or less actual work time?

[frozen gate]

Yes, tech is not the career for you if you aren’t open to learning more in your spare time

[lofty arch]

Yeah, I understand, just thinking on how to work remotely and being independent of my own work space

[frozen gate]

Working remotely and entry level sounds like they don’t go together, judging by that one post on r/dataisbeautiful (the guy also had no special skills he could play up so the competition was basically everybody)

Maybe it’s different in software, idk

[lofty arch]

Hmm I see. Yeah it sounds rough "out there", but hmm, what would you do if you had to find a remotely job/work from home?

I didnt get to finish my civil engineering for cybernetics and robotics because of 2 kids (1 with autism and 1 with heart problems heh), so I had to just pause school and think of other options, so I am trying to figure out the next step. What would be the most optimal way to get a average+/high salary job without finishing school and having able to work remotely

Thats why I am curious about tech and have to ask about it

[shadow moss]

For FAANG employees, possibly but that’s few developers

[safe loom]

I just realized I sent the wrong resume (read a very outdated one) to job offers. Does that impact the view the company has on me or can I just retry on one of their next offers and probably pretend something like "server problem"?

[worthy gust]

Kk thanks a lot for the advice

[worthy gust]

Okay, ill keep that in mind

[near ocean]

Did you send to a recruiter or to an automated system?

[safe loom]

Automated I think. At least it's not a mail-like form.

[near ocean]

Unlucky, you could contact a recruiter and explain the situation but not with a dumb bot

[thick juniper]

Yeah. At least for me, dreaming of the positives isn't as motivating as setting out clear negatives. If I don't do X, Y, or Z, what will my life be like in five, ten, fifty years. It helps that I've lived over 15-years as an adult and seen my friend's and my own dreams deferred and aborted through carelessness or idleness and seen the consequences. Remember too that you're the model of manhood (and one of the most important models of adulthood) for your kid, and whether your kid grows up to be a man or grows up to marry one, he or she will measure every man against you. Give him or her a good stick for those measurements. I don't want to spam the chat with motivational speeches, so please feel free to DM me and we can chat, give each other encouragement, all that jazz.

[thick juniper]

Thank you, but my wife is the heroine here. She went back to work full time so we could make ends meet while I have this chance. She'd much rather be the one with the girl full time, but though I could learn and work (I know others do it), taking care of our daughter keeps me sharper and gives me an extra two hours (her nap) every day.

[light dune]

youtube

[sudden quartz]

MIT has the luxury of introducing students the easy way for student benefit, and has multiple pathways in its program. If you know want to be a computer scientist though there is no reason to make python your first lang.

[dense mesa]

What would you recommend instead?

[smoky quest]

Why do you think python is not great as a first language for CS?

[dense mesa]

My interview went very well today, hopefully I get the role

[sudden quartz]

If you want to be a computer scientist its smart to start with C. Python is simple, easy, and for coders that dont study computer science or programming languages in general, or even build software

[dense mesa]

This is why we need a programming pedagogy channel, there's research to suggest otherwise

[true harness]

yes, MIT is known for being an easy school

[smoky quest]

Got it. Thanks!
I don't agree with it, but I see what you mean

[sudden quartz]

and there is better research that counters your research
@true harness they make things easy to learn yes. great education.

[near ocean]

is this not the same C-family elitism that we get from boomers? why not start with an assembly flavour and learn how real computer scientists handle registers

[dense mesa]

Can you link any papers or journal articles in that case? This is a pretty open case in academia currently, not sure how you can make such general statements without evidence

[dense mesa]

People who have done literature reviews of which programming language to teach first have actually observed exactly this phenomenon

[sudden quartz]

as a computer scientist you should take a look into that pretty soon yes

[near ocean]

i'm not a computer scientist, i dont do research

[dense mesa]

@sudden quartz are you not going to link any significant studies or papers?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mouenis-Anouar-Tadlaoui/publication/348926850_A_blended_learning_approach_for_teaching_python_programming_language_towards_a_post_pandemic_pedagogy/links/602045e7a6fdcc37a80e5a0d/A-blended-learning-approach-for-teaching-python-programming-language-towards-a-post-pandemic-pedagogy.pdf

https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/234867.234872 this one is perhaps the most famous in the field and directly contradicts what you're implying

[sudden quartz]

unapplicable research

[dense mesa]

Why?

[sudden quartz]

its about teaching python during covid

[dense mesa]

Do you know what pedagogy is?

[dense mesa]

Can we see an example of applicable research in that case?

[sudden quartz]

yeah its totally a useless paper for this discussion

[dense mesa]

So can you post something or will you keep disagreeing

[smoky quest]

I mean, there are two flavors:

• going bottom up
• going top down

bottom up was great before as we didn't have that many layers, and I think it's still fine when the person is still quite technical.
But for complete newbies, that would scare people more than anything. It also has a lot of information to convey before going into higher level concepts

Starting with python enables to ease people better and faster and get them to do something rewarding sooner.
And that's putting aside how massively used is python in a job.

[dense mesa]

Again if you could actually explain anything instead of blindly disagreeing

I really discussing this stuff with people, but being contrarian for the sake of it isn't conducive

[sudden quartz]

this website isnt letting me log into my acm account and read the article

[dense mesa]

Why would you need an ACM account

[sudden quartz]

i cant see the article.
and you dont need research paper to support what im saying. its logical sense. if you want to be a pastry chef you cook pastries. you can learn other stuff, but thats the basis of what you want to master. C holds more stuff you want to understand as a computer scientist. python holds almost none of it (that pertains just to this language). its great to build stuff with but leave it to the career transitioners and the other fields to use. Even CS majors are fine to use python, but if you want to do CS research why start with python

[dense mesa]

You don't need an ACM account, there's corporate and institutional sign in

[sudden quartz]

C is far more valuable in studying programming languages, because then as well, you can branch off into studying langs that improve upon it a bit. remember im saying you just should start with C. that paper you showed taught ALL of its courses in python. horrible sounding program.

[dense mesa]

You quite clearly do need some kind of evidence, that's the whole point of pedagogy

[sudden quartz]

then what is pedagogy

[dense mesa]

:/

[sudden quartz]

? we seem to not have the same interpretation or at least connotation of the term. nothing wrong with defining it here for your context

[dense mesa]

My opinion is that you have a personal bias against Python and will disagree no matter what, and I don't think you have a solid enough understanding of pedagogy to warrant discussing further

[smoky quest]

CS isn't about a programming language though.
If you want to teach how to think in algorithms, C can be quite confusing and tedious. Pointers are useless to teach for loops and branches. Having to know the difference between compiling and linking and how to use (c)make are just distractions and complications

Not that one should not learn C and lower level aspects, but I believe they should come after the basics

[sudden quartz]

Studying programming languages is a core part of being a computer scientist, which is what i mean. coding isnt even necessary for algs

[smoky quest]

programming languages don't matter if you can't formulate a problem into an algorithm

[analog sun]

Maybe the definitions here are different? I'm guessing there are two different views of what it means to study Computer Science

[dense mesa]

I've tutored CS for years, it's the study of computation, not programming languages

[sudden quartz]

i also tutor CS, and have spoken with people who have made and evaluated computer science departments. programming languages literally fall into the study of computation (though CS is more than just that now).

[digital fjord]

I am not sold on merits of C for CS. For IT, it is more or less mandatory, since all major operating systems use a C api, as well as most lower level software. But for pure CS, I still like the old scheme curriculum of MIT best

but IG modern CS curriculums are moving away from math, and going more into applied programming

[sudden quartz]

we probably have a different understanding of what it means to study programming languages, i studied conceptually and i believe C brings you closer to understanding OS concepts

[dense mesa]

That may be the case but you've not really provided any solid reasons for C over Python as a first language

[digital fjord]

yeah, if you want to go into "how computer works", you need C, but I think it also makes sense to start with programming, then move on to "how computer works" and C with that understanding.

and well, you can learn programming with any language and a good teacher, and python is one of the easier ones to do something actually helpful to you with thanks to its mature automation ecosystem.

[thick juniper]

I'd be interested in that.

[digital fjord]

and teaching python is way easier than teaching C

[dusk marten]

what options with career i gonna make with python ?

[dusk marten]

makes me feel a little sad in one point: my math is no the best, and i have dificults until today.. this could afect my career progressions ?

[lucid vapor]

Python is simple, easy, and for coders that dont study computer science or programming languages in general
Why is that a bad thing? Does that inherently make it bad for people who do want to do/do understand those things?

[sudden quartz]

sigh not my point that it being easy is bad

[lucid vapor]

Then what is your point? That's what I understood from your sentence.

[dense mesa]

You could do data science, machine learning, automation, loads of stuff

[sudden quartz]

python doesnt delve into OS concepts and doesnt contain ways to learn about programming language duties and challenges. it is easier, and is used by everyone who isnt cs for a reason. I typed something longer but my laptop cutout

[digital fjord]

What OS concepts? Other than like... Memory management, you get stdlib bindings to most of unix, and WinAPI has a wrapper on pypi. And I would say manual memory management isn't enough of a merit to subject a beginner to C.

[gritty rivet]

These are arguments for saying that Python isn't sufficient as a primary language, but I think these are exactly why so many people feel it's good as a first language

[smoky quest]

Just a note on is used by everyone who isnt cs for a reason.
I am in CS and I use python while I don't use C and haven't a need for it in decades. (despite having to go down to kernel levels sometimes)

[brittle thorn]

Arguments about which language or OS or editor sometimes arent productive. It depends mostly on context, how is it used? How efficient and productive it is? Userbase and industry adoption? Both languages have their niche. I learn C before Python but I like Python more because im more productive in Python and I havent had a C project in industry for some time C# yes...but it avoids manual memory management too..

I think C shines in the context of embedded systems. Last time I touched C in serious project it was for a visual code generator for Arduino.. Yes most beginners tend hate C... I was a teaching assistant back then in a class that taught gcc lol.. malloc and other stuff

If C was friendly lol no need for the visual code generator project which is a visual abstraction over raw C code

It might be better if we appreciate each language and note they compliment each other

[true harness]

the context is 'what language is better for CS'

[brittle thorn]

I would say both ...C is essential to learn concepts than are close to the OS or in the case of embedded systems without one .... but Python is great for many other things since it is so productive and it can lessen the general level of frustration in classes and make the students learn more within the time constraints .

[summer roost]

That question presupposes that there is a "best" language for learning computer science.

clearly C is not the best language for teaching principles of object oriented programming. Wouldn't the best language for learning CS include object oriented programming as a first order abstraction?

And of course, it would need to include functional programming as a first order abstraction, since you won't be able to understand the functional family of programming languages by only reasoning about imperative programming languages.

And it's much harder to understand relational algebra if your programming language doesn't have first order support for set joins and tables

[brittle thorn]

Yes , why some teach C# or Java or Python as a first language even in High School level and yes SQL is essential.

First exposure to CS will probably occur in High School and not everybody being exposed at that level will proceed to get a CS degree or work in IT.

It is best to make these introductory courses fun and Python tends to be more friendly.

In my case I was also exposed to a programming language in High School and it was GW basic since that was in the late 80s

[pastel quail]

i agree, it’s probably easier to pique someone’s interest / make them more likely to continue learning about compsci if it’s easier to make ~cool~ things in their first language

[brittle thorn]

The less frustrating and fun the language the more programmers we will have in the industry in the future

[still pelican]

Which in turn means more competition and lower salaries... no?

[summer roost]

Yeah. We should stop teaching anyone anything, so we have a monopoly on knowledge.

[smoky quest]

that's a not a zero sum game.
If you look at it as a pie, the pie keeps growing every year. So even though there are more people getting into it, there is an ever expanding amount of space for them.

[dense mesa]

Return to monke

[brittle thorn]

This kind of thinking will probably lead to the decline of our civilization and our demise when the ignorant masses revolt against the elites lol

It is better to democratise both knowledge and power

[glacial bronze]

@frozen gate @smoky quest new advice. new me. new, résumé~

[smoky quest]

much better. Only thing is your experiences don't say you wrote any code. But the projects do give a much better feeling and are already a big improvement

[glacial bronze]

do you think it okay to resend a resume to some recruiters?

"nono dont read that, read this!!!" hahahehe

[smoky quest]

yeah why not?

[true harness]

is there anything i should change about this? >w<

[ivory sluice]

what's up with that

[true harness]

uh.. that's the latex command in latex, \LaTeX

[frozen gate]

You don’t use Python for the front end but you can for the back

[sudden quartz]

Well the context was what language is best to start with if you plan to be a computer scientist. i.e. formal Gradschool in CS

[shadow moss]

Looks like you messed up formatting.

[true harness]

no that's the \LaTeX command, there's no formatting on my part. although i could just change it to "LaTeX"

[sudden quartz]

Its a fun little thing you did that shows a bit of fun but literally nobody cares. Industry might like the personality but they dont care about LaTeX. Its fine for getting into college though

But yeah it hurts to read and is distracting best to use laTeX

[sudden quartz]

Move projects and achievements to the top. They are the only things bringing value to this resume. Projects number 1.

[smoky quest]

that's fine. It gives a touch of geekyness

[smoky quest]

Looks fine overall.
You may want to consider eventually changing your github username or having a different account as it's pretty close to the limit in terms of professional look

[true harness]

i like that name though 😔 . ig i'll get something like firstname-lastname ?

[sudden quartz]

Yes. College will be looking soon

[true harness]

wdym by that

[sudden quartz]

if youre sending this to college applications theyll see. Tbh it depends but most would appricate seriousness im sure

It can only do you good to be more professional

[smoky quest]

you can keep it for fun/personal projects

[brittle thorn]

Yes

[shadow moss]

I would. Few people know Latex

[summer roost]

I'd use the \LaTeX macro, if you're going to list it as a skill. If I saw a resume that specifically says someone knows LaTeX, I'd be confused by them not using the macro, frankly

it'd be a bit like listing MS Word as a skill and then sending a .txt resume.

I definitely wouldn't move the projects and achievements to the top. Resumes are in a fairly standard order; the top isn't where those go.

[rancid knoll]

Anyone know how i can add a timer or like a countdown to my pygame?

[smoky quest]

Hi! This channel is #career-advice and thus your question is unrelated to it. You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help to get better help

[sudden quartz]

Everybody knows Latex

[thick juniper]

🙋‍♂️ I don't.

[pulsar drum]

Definitely not everyone. Not even a majority from my impressions.

[summer roost]

I don't, though I've written resumes in LaTeX anyway through largely trial and error and basing it on a good template

[frozen gate]

I don’t, I was under the impression it was more of a math and physics thing

[sudden quartz]

If you have done like any research youve probably used LaTeX. My CS department was very math and research focused so I started LaTeX in first year with CS fundamentals. Logic, proofs, etc.

[summer roost]

yep. It's used heavily in math, physics, and CS research, barely at all in industry.

the proportion of students who know Latex is likely much higher than the proportion of professionals who know it.

I'd estimate that maybe ~5% of devs know latex.

[smoky quest]

I was able to avoid learning latex thanks to openoffice/libreoffice 🙂

As a professional, the main aspect is a lot more focused on the collaboration. So a lot more of google doc and confluence or sometimes asciidoc (+the math equation renderer)

[shadow moss]

Few people do research even in college. Even if they did said research, they probably didn't continue it so they won't remember LaTeX.

Obviously LaTeX is fine for resume if you are applying to heavy research position. Otherwise that though, no one will realize it so stick to formatting that looks like it comes from Word.

[summer roost]

the jobs that latex is used for in academia are often handled by markdown, pandoc, and things like reveal.js in industry

I've definitely written some stuff that uses latex under the hood for typesetting, but latex in that case is an intermediate format

a lot like PostScript, actually - technically human readable, but more often used as an intermediate communication format between two tools

[shadow moss]

Also remember, before it gets to anyone technical, it must pass through HR first.

[smoky quest]

that sounds rather violent

[summer roost]

"violent"? How so?

[shadow moss]

Also, put Python and Java info on separate lines

[smoky quest]

that's pretty low level

[summer roost]

ah, I meant that I've written documents that use tools that use latex as an intermediate form, like pandoc's conversions to PDF for instance. I didn't mean that I've written tools that generate latex.

[smoky quest]

oh makes more sense 🙂
I actually read it as you writing some raw ps

[subtle heart]

imagine writing a tool to write a tool to generate latex

[hoary flame]

guys can anyone suggest me a good career option with the use of python?

i am a teenager who is interested in computer sciences, so i thought anyhow i am learning python, maybe this will help.

[smoky quest]

first link on google: https://data-flair.training/blogs/python-career-opportunities/
But in short, there are a lot of opportunities.

Note however that you should not let your career be defined by a single language. It's so much bigger than that

[bitter quartz]

Hi

can someone mybe help me with a problem😢

[astral notch]

This is a ask to ask, so please ask, what you want to ask. If the Problem does not relate to a career, please use the help channels

[dusty pecan]

Hello. I am in my last year of High School and will be going to college in the next few months. I like programming a lot, Python, along with web development (JS), while I have more knowledge in python than in js.

I was wondering, what related course should I take a look at. Is it BS in Computer Science? I'm a bit puzzled as I see some other articles mentioning Bachelors in Computer Programming, and can't seem to find a good article explaining that course.

I'm looking to be in the field of Data Analysis, and or in Web Development. Any suggestions for courses I should take a look at? Thanks.

[smoky quest]

The point of BS in CS is to not teach you a specific job but to teach you CS and how things work. These have a much higher long term value as tools and languages can change pretty quickly over time and become outdated.
So I would recommend to focus on theory and overall knowledge

[dusty pecan]

Oh, I see, so with BS in CS, the specific programming language will just be learned extra, or in a separate course?

[smoky quest]

programming languageS.
To use an analogy, a language is like a hammer. It's a great tool. But as soon as you need something else, then you are stuck and trying to apply a hammer does not end up well.
So instead of teaching you webdev/hammer, the school will teach you why you use a hammer, and how tools of all kinds fit into a project and how they work and and all the things around it. So that you are not constrained by the hammer but can pick whatever tool you need to use for the problem at hand. You may even learn to make your own tools

To that end, school will try to teach you all sorts of ways of thinking and that will include multiple languages.

So one common complaint from students is that while they learn a lot of the theory, they don't know much about the practice of the real world. That's why projects are pretty important too.
And the best students overall are the ones who go deeper and have projects so they can get the best of both worlds

[dusty pecan]

@smoky quest. Oh, I see. How about BS in Information Technology? How will it compare to Computer Science?

[smoky quest]

depends on the country, school, etc.. but typically IT is a lot more focused on infrastructure/networking

[copper yarrow]

Exactly. You cant just keep studying and expect to know how things operate immedietly.

Surgeons have to do training surgeries before they become Real surgeons

[vapid jay]

hi can someone help me

[smoky quest]

Also most tools (ex: git, maven, pip, etc.) and languages can be picked up fairly quickly in one or more afternoon. School focuses on things valuable for like 40 years

[undone willow]

As a self taught programmer what are some websites or companies willing to take a gamble on me? I’m thinking about deploying a Flask website using a dog api to show pictures later to help showcase what I can do. Will I need more to be a entry level programmer?

[smoky quest]

You may want to check out https://roadmap.sh/ for some skills that could be relevant to the role(s) you are aiming for

[native leaf]

hello! what's the best way to make money on upwerk with python?

[undone willow]

Ty

[vast shoal]

I used Latex exclusively for reports going through uni, it was just something a lot of people did in my program. I think the output tends to look really good compared to a regular word processor and complex formulas in particular look great, but unless you need to include a lot of formulas in your document, the value of Latex over a word processor is marginal.

[dense mesa]

Not sure if it's the resizing of the image but \LaTeX hasn't formatted properly. Also would really recommend changing your GitHub name, as mentioned already

Looks good though

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may break laws, breach terms of services, or are malicious or inappropriate.

[weak cipher]

IK its against policy

[dusty pecan]

As a follow-up to my question earlier. Would it be a good idea for me to get an internship relating to Data Science, even before or during college?

I had some scrolling on Linkedin yesterday, and in data science, I know half of the requirements of most organizations. As currently, I have good knowledge of Google Sheets, Python. What I'm lacking is understanding and working with SQL and things like Tableau for data visualization.

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384>

[brittle thorn]

Yes yes ..it changes...tools, platforms , languages , programming paradigms ... Theory will keep you grounded

[weak cipher]

but i want people to be safe

[tender frost]

!ban 871145252612898856 7d It seems you're not here to follow our rules. Should you return, make sure to do so.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @weak cipher until <t:1642242394:f> (6 days and 23 hours).

[brittle thorn]

Why a Degree matters lol

[tender frost]

Thanks 👍

[fringe pine]

Or just leave it off? The fact that the resume is typeset in latex already demonstrates proficiency I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[true harness]

i don't think that's possible to determine just from the compiled pdf though ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twin laurel]

Hey I have my job placement within 6 months and I want to learn python so much that I want to be able to clear coding round

What shall I do ?

I am from non CS background do it's looking pretty tough to do that thing

Any suggestions are most welcomed

[hearty island]

automate the boring stuff w python by al sweigart is a good start

[twin laurel]

What it covers ?

[hearty island]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc

[vast shoal]

A practical approach to the basics of Python programming.

[twin laurel]

Thanks

What after reading the book ? As am reading book now

[vast shoal]

I'm not sure what "job placement" means. Is there a particular position you are looking to get? If so, what kind of position is it?

[twin laurel]

Well job placement means that companies come to college to hire students

[vast shoal]

Alright, well, it depends a little bit what type of job you want then.

[twin laurel]

Where in placement, there is certain round called coding round

[vast shoal]

Oh, ok, what's that?

[twin laurel]

Well lemme brief u a bit

After u clear aptitude round in placement activity, there is a coding round. It compromises of certain number of questions. U need to either solve them. The interviewer may ask for full solution or see how u approach.

So hence I need to learn python to at least have a proper approach towards the problem

[vast shoal]

Alright, well, if it's like, data structures and algorithms type questions, you might want to practice solving puzzles on sites like hackerrank or leetcode, etc.

[twin laurel]

Yes absolutely

I was practicing but stuck at a basic prob

I did all the basic but then too things dont click

[vast shoal]

That's not really all you need in order to be able to work productively as a developer, though. You can check out https://roadmap.sh/ for some guides to the skillsets needed for certain types of developers.

Like backend, frontend, devops, etc.

[twin laurel]

Ohh thanks dementati

I hope to find something that can help me

[dense mesa]

@twin laurel this in CN?

[twin laurel]

CN?

[dense mesa]

China

[shadow moss]

Just put latex in plain words if you want. If it’s not academia, few people will care

[twin laurel]

What u wanna say ?

[dense mesa]

The process sounded similar to how some friends of mine in China get work placements at uni

[north pulsar]

hlo guys

I am new

[twin laurel]

Ah no am not in china

[vapid jay]

Knock knock

[dense mesa]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[fringe wasp]

I'm in need of some extra money so I decided to try and do some freelance work. Does anyone have any general advice on where to start or what would be worth my time? I was considering either doing something python related (I'm intermediate level) or trying to pick up something like web development.

[gritty rivet]

Check out platforms like UpWork and Fiverr to see what is in demand. Expect to bid very low initially so you can get your first clients and build your reputation. This is a common topic so search past discussions.

[fringe wasp]

I appreciate that, I'll try backreading a little more too 🙂

[sick forum]

guys do they teach creating apps in college like front end and stuff(react, vue js), i mean is it part of the standard CSE curriculum or do the people need to learn it on their own.

[smoky quest]

somewhere in between

[sick forum]

Also , a person who is just interested and passionate about front end and only work in that field , does he really need to go through the computer science curriculum for colleges because college placements are probably the best way to get employed , is there any other option for such people.

[smoky quest]

How old are these people?
But looks like they haven't thought through their career or ambition

Most people think of their career as the next 40 years.
There is a lot of progression to be made and the field will progress by quite a bit. Just look at how computers looked like in 1980s.
And during one's career, they also do expect to go up the ladder, which means that eventually they may either become architect and oversee large projects or go the management route and manage a bunch of people. So not really writing frontend code anymore

So saying you just want to be a code monkey on the frontend means you will be outdated and your career will have no progress. So you are basically stating you expect to be paid entry level jobs for your entire career.
Which seems rather shortsighted

[brittle thorn]

Lol i lived through the 80s and used those obsolete computers...

Yes, take a long term view

Don't overspecialize and be flexible

[sick forum]

ok , i see you are optimistic, and a pro education and skill building guy , but at the end you need to work for food and shelter and survival and specifically talking about the people atm working in the front end part of the companies , they are not expected to understand the back end and stuff , they are promoted and get rich and ahead in their career just by doing front end, and i don't think there is any issue in that , you can be at the top of the front end games , create better libraries and don't really have to understand and learn about any other stuff ,if you are doing major in that, i just want to know the state of current college curriculum ,

[smoky quest]

There is a say for that: pennywise, pounds foolish

[sick forum]

really ? isn't expertise preferred , you need to be top of your game ,, rigght ?

[sick forum]

hmm, so you think front end people are poor , and back end are rich

[smoky quest]

Skipping on an education will stunt your progress and expertise.
Because a good education will help you understand how things work and fit together.

[smoky quest]

No. I think that skipping school to make money sooner is not smart. You need to see an education as an investment in the future.
Note that I have not talked about the role, whether frontend, backend or any other role.

[brittle thorn]

Yes it is a solid investment

[sick forum]

? huh ? who said anything about skipping education , my question is state of available courses in current education system for gaining expertise or major in front end

*college courses

[smoky quest]

The education system's purpose is not to create code monkeys but to educate engineers so they can take on whatever role they see fit and succeed

[sudden quartz]

academia and its courses do not reflect the job industry @sick forum the entire premise of what you are talking about is wrong

[brittle thorn]

If you focus too much on the details you might miss the big picture... Things change and platforms change.. implementations may change but there are concepts behind them.. If you focus too much on react.js without a grasp of some basic concepts behind why it does what it does then you might have a hard time when that library gets replaced

[smoky quest]

Any engineer can pick up react in one afternoon. But it takes a lot more time to pick up algorithms and the maths and networking behind all of it

[sick forum]

that is correct, but to land that job u need to excel at your particular skill, it is good to know the basics but , you can't only survive on basics , you need to built expertise , i hope you agree, i suppose taking in account of tech industry and inncreasing competition , i believe there is a need for the colleges to deversify the options for computer science students in various fields , obviously after they have taken the basic courses of cs,

[sudden quartz]

how are the options not already diverse ?

[smoky quest]

When I hire entry level engineers, I don't care if they know react, scala, or whatever framework and libraries I happen to use at $JOB.
What I care about is they have the fundamentals and are promising so that they are worth the investment.

I also have hired people coming from different countries. And it's actually quite surprising how the BS/MS programs can vary depending on the country/school. They all put some emphasis on different subjects.

[sick forum]

hmm, AFAIK , from talking to engineers they all went through almost the same curriculum , and would later have to self learn somehow to gain expertise of the field or job they are currenly working on

[sick forum]

ok .

[sudden quartz]

you dont master anything unless you do the work outside of courses.
literally anybody can use a tool. a computer science major knows how its made, when to use it, why it exists, and can understand it on multiple levels, and learn more and change far easier. imagine you hire some react monkey and react dies out

[brittle thorn]

That is so true and correct

[sick forum]

wow,really interesting insights, thank you guys, one last question , how do you know that you have the basic fundamentals , problem solving skills and are ready to move on to work outside of courses ,

[sudden quartz]

youve graduated

or passed the course, w/e

[graceful mason]

also try to get an internship, the experience from that could be 10x more valuable than the course

[smoky quest]

are we talking about students or self-learners or bootcamps?

[brittle thorn]

True and dont discount the humanities... It makes you well rounded... there is more to living than chasing money.

[sick forum]

well i am currently building my skill in research side , but needed to get insights about the current front end scenario to get a part time job

[sudden quartz]

some people need humanities, and some people feel like theyre wasting their time in humanities. i had a history course and half the time the professor was just trying to convince the class that woodrow wilson wasnt a bad person for making a racial joke

[sick forum]

i would much appreciate if you can provide the answer for everyone,

[sick forum]

there should be flexibilty and course should not be forced upon children

[smoky quest]

That's pretty broad.
But overall, I would look at the curriculum of a school and compare. https://roadmap.sh/ can be used for the finishing touches.
And with regards to interviews, you should have a compelling resume with some interesting projects to talk about and able to do ~2 medium leetcode in 30min. And then do 2-3 interviews at companies you don't care about to gauge how you fare

[smoky quest]

There is actually an argument to be made against that. Students don't know shit. And among the shit they don't know, they don't know what they need to know.
Some of the classes I have had, I didn't even know they existed or that they would be beneficial. And I am glad I went through them.

[brittle thorn]

Same

[sudden quartz]

Students entering college need guidance. Most have no idea what is happening

[sick forum]

ty @smoky quest @sudden quartz @brittle thorn

[serene kindle]

Tutoring seems the easiest way for beginners to make money.

It probably pays double than the equivalent programming

[sharp briar]

I got a BS in informatics about 15 years ago and only used it for 1 year, then I went into real estate. Real estate is too expensive now and I need something to do. I have forgotten everything. At my university Informatics was just computer science for people that were too dumb/lazy to do the math requirements in Computer Science. There was no healthcare twist in our Informatics program like most universities.

What job (that i can get with a BS in informatics) can i learn in 2 or 3 months?

[serene kindle]

just apply to all coding jobs and learn whatever job you get on the job, spend those 2-3 months interviewing

[frozen gate]

I’ve heard of at least two people with that degree doing QA before going into software dev

There are more technical and less technical QA roles, like you could be a manual tester or you could automate tests

[serene kindle]

maybe become a software developer at some real estate company

some companies value having the domain experience

[vapid jay]

Hello guys

is go worth learning after python?

[serene kindle]

no

[vapid jay]

#PythonForLife!

why tho

[summer roost]

the usual advice for someone switching careers as a mid-career professional is to try to find a way to transition from one to the other. If you know coding and also real estate, try to find an office job that would benefit from some simple automation. QA's also a reasonable idea; that often doesn't need you to know much more than what sorts of things often break in a program, and can segue nicely into learning to solve those problems.

a lot of office jobs benefit from small amounts of automation.

if you don't want to go that route, try doing a bootcamp and picking up some web dev skills. An Informatics degree in your past plus a recent bootcamp might be enough to land you an entry level web dev job.

[serene kindle]

might as well do a masters degree in CS

seems faster than learning a skill

[summer roost]

if your goal is a job as a software engineer, master's degrees aren't all that useful. They're more useful for people who intend on pursuing research

[frozen gate]

Eh, in that case, you might as well do the Odin project, but I suppose a boot camp might help for external motivation

I think a masters degree has a bit more credibility than a boot camp but boot camps are applications heavy, while masters are theory heavy

[summer roost]

it would be hard to even get accepted into a CS masters program with only an Informatics BS from 15 years ago, I suspect. But even setting that aside, I don't think it's a particularly helpful step for someone who's interested in application development.

[serene kindle]

if you were going to spend time learning something might as well learn a CS masters it's the most efficient solution

[vapid jay]

If I want to learn more regarding CS as a med student and try to create projects of my own do you have any tips? I've only have experience making telegram bots and CS-50 that have our professors contact info till now so i'm a complete beginner and any advice is appreciated

[summer roost]

I disagree. It'd be much more work than a bootcamp - a minimum of 2 years of your life, compared to a typical bootcamp at 3 or 4 months. It would be much more difficult, as well, and only slightly more useful to someone trying to get an entry level software job than the bootcamp would be.

[serene kindle]

just do some bio projects such as bioinformatics since your med knowledge is a big leverage

[vapid jay]

too much theory in my head that i can hardly put in use, thanks for the adivce, I will try to learn more, have a nice day guys

[crude moon]

it depends what your goals are, but yes, go is worth learning

[buoyant seal]

If web dev, then second lang should be JavaScript ;b

[crude moon]

Yes, agreed, but if starting out, I wouldnt go for web dev.. Better careers in data, and more problem solving type programming, also with higher salaries than web dev

[cerulean glen]

Looking for a job in Python, already learned how to program a calculator, can somebody help?

[vapid jay]

i doubt u can get a job with just knowing how to make a calculator

[buoyant seal]

expression = input()
print(eval(expression)) 

The calc in two lines ;b

So... Even u programmed calculator with something like Polish revert notation... That would be still too simple

Students do it at university in early years

Actually u know... Calculator is often second app after Hello world

[feral tangle]

Hey @cerulean glen, it's nice that you can already program a calculator (for now, I can't do that - still learning the very basics)

Still, as other members pointed out, it may not be enough to get a job in Python

As a beginner, though, I'm following the advice to learn as much as I can and engage in the community

Getting an active GitHub account (where you can show stuff you developed/are developing) and taking part in courses and experimental projects could help you making bridges and meeting like-minded people you can work with

Not much of a deep perspective, but I hope it helps :d

[lyric hill]

Hi

Good afternoon, am delighted to find myself in this community

[unreal aspen]

hey, just wondering, any ideas on how to find a tutoring job? super experianced in python and would love to tutor. Tag me

[lyric eagle]

You've got alot to learn to get a job coding. Go make a Roman numeral converter

[gritty rivet]

Easiest way is probably to join a platform like solverly.us or whatever. Otherwise network and advertise however you can

[violet goblet]

Hello there, happy new year. I am an intern at this company for about 10 months, the contract at the beginning it was 9 months, but they extended it, but not only for me but other interns, some of them not. So, what should I do next, in April of this year it ends, should I start looking for jobs from now, or maybe talk to my Manager for a Junior Position?

[frosty ibex]

guys, what is better, to learn data science and never get a good ds job (it's very interesting, but there are no jobs in Russia) or code web sites and take orders on freelance or get a web-developer job being a student?

in addition, I'm not so curious about web development, whether it's back-end or front-end

only 61 job openings when searching for data science in my city

[sudden quartz]

Depends on what you want and your situation, but it sounds like you are motivated for data science. That trumps all. You dont even need to stay in Russia there are remote position because you know english. ALSO, studying data science doesnt get you literally data science jobs. You need to look out for data analytics, data engineer, database jobs, and general SWE positions with the technologies you know

[sudden quartz]

look for jobs and ask about a junior position too. you always want options.

[violet goblet]

I asked in the past and he basically said they have to look in for any vacancies, talk to hr and his boss, basically he said no lol

[sudden quartz]

By the way, people should stay away from long contract internships imo. They overwork you into a junior position with really low, 5% of the pay you should be getting in the guise of an internship.

[violet goblet]

So what should I say to him? @sudden quartz, I am very good with technical stuff, but not very good with other such as always complaining that I can't work remote

[sudden quartz]

If they have no junior positions just leave Its a shitty company anyway. How much are you getting paid?

[frosty ibex]

thanks, i still haven't considered which one is the best, but didn't know that I can work remotely as a ds engineer

[frosty ibex]

damn, it's a good job

[violet goblet]

Also got paid a free masters degree in finance data ascience that is about 15k

[frosty ibex]

middles in Russia don't get this sum

[violet goblet]

Well here in spain also, got lucky and got hired by a bank

[sudden quartz]

What country is this?

[violet goblet]

But i am not directly working for that bank but for another company they own, its Santander ( bank ) > PagoNxt ( company they own ), Spain

I haven't really learnd almost no technical stuff, most of it I learned at home from tutorials. I was a bit of backend dev at the beginning, then qa in postman and thats it

So for me to look for another job is to prepare weeks in advance to study something

Which is no problem since I learn very fast, but thats a thing to take in mind

[split oasis]

I don't want to work

[frosty ibex]

take a rest

[sudden quartz]

@violet goblet @frosty ibex
950 dollaes is not a lot at all in United States.... Thats like 5.50 an hour.... Less than minimum wage. Making 4000 a month in America from internship is like average.

[sudden quartz]

then do what you love and make money from it

[split oasis]

950 dollars is less than I spend a month in Nebraska, and this is a cheap place in the US

[violet goblet]

A friend got hired for a junior position, but I think in other department and its earning about 2.7k euros a month

[split oasis]

that's good money

[violet goblet]

Yep, that is very good here I think, @sudden quartz so what you think I should tell my boss? Or maybe talk directly with hr?

[frosty ibex]

about 3302 dollars with experience from 3 years and more on full-day, I think, you get the difference

[split oasis]

the way to make more money for python programmers is if python goes mobile, that's where all the money is right now

[frosty ibex]

why the f python goes mobile

so, java or kotlin gone out

huh

[split oasis]

I mean, why not? It should work on any device

[frosty ibex]

yeah, probably

[digital fjord]

python does work on mobile, there is just no real reason to use it there instead of java or kotlin

[split oasis]

it kinda works, in its own container

but it would be nice to have my own scripts running on my phone without them being killed when whatever app-container that is running them gets killed and without having to run a whole virtualized environment just to run a little python program

[frosty ibex]

moreover, java/kotlin are more documented for mobile, than python

[split oasis]

yes, but python would be easier to code on, on a mobile, on the go

I am not saying to develop a whole SDK to make python apps for mobile. I am saying that it would be nice to run python natively on mobile and code on your mobile for rapid prototyping, something that doesn't make sense to do with java or kotlin which require a desktop

[digital fjord]

python does run natively on mobile, it builds on all relevant arm variants. It's just that android doesn't let you run something in the background forever without rooting.

pydroid for example just runs python as an executable.

[split oasis]

Last time I researched I read that android doesn't offer all that python needs and that's why you need some kind of linux container to run it on

Perhaps this article is no longer valid :https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-python-apps-might-soon-be-running-on-android/

"To regular Python programmers, the mobile environment is an alien planet," explains Davis. "There are no subprocesses; sockets, pipes and signals all behave differently than on regular Unix; and many syscalls are prohibited.

"TLS certificate handling on Android is particularly quirky. For the CPython test suite to pass on mobile, it must skip the numerous tests that use fork or spawn, or use signals, or any other APIs that are different or absent."

[digital fjord]

yeah, android is not quite linux, so not everything that CPython on linux wants works, but python does run just fine

I mean, it does say that the parts of the test suite that make sense on android pass

[split oasis]

ah, I see

[fossil vessel]

when I put my project in python on the replit when I start it gives me this error
can you help me?

[ivory sluice]

@fossil vesselplease check out #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help for python help

[tardy lance]

hey guys! Just graduated college w an MIS degree and just started learning python. End goal is to be a software. Ik this is a v noob question but I never understood- what is linux and why do ppl use?

**software dev

[slow aspen]

Linux is an open source operating system, a lot of developers use it because of the easy and security of it

Open source meaning anyone has access to the code, which means in some ways its more secure because anyone is able to fix bugs or viruses that they may encounter. Also most programming languages work with Linux OS

Some view it as faster and more efficient, its also free, highly customizable, good support system, etc.

[tardy lance]

ohhhhh okay. So its optimal as if i ran code through linux it wouldnt affect my OS

[slow aspen]

Do some research on it, its not a bad option, though you will need to understand some terminal commands since you have to install everything on your own

What do you mean? IF you have a virtual machine installed on your computer you can install Linux via that. Then you can use Linux without having it affect your current OS

[tardy lance]

yeah ive gotta do more research. Just wanted some insight on here. Yeah i was referring to a virtual machine. my profs would always refer to linux and I never really looked more into it

[slow aspen]

Yeah for sure. I'd install a virtual machine, either VirtualBox or VMware Player and mess around. Have some fun and learn!!

[ivory sluice]

depending on what you need WSL2 may also be more than enough for dev work.

[vast shoal]

Linux is just a different operating system, like Windows or Mac OS. It's widely considered to be very good for running servers and many also consider it to be a good platform for programming. There are many different reasons why, but among others it's highly customizable and very easy to automate.

[vapid jay]

help me pls, i need an command to send two embeds, HOOW

[brave spade]

hey I'm going into the sciences and I have some questions about putting your coding qualifications on your resume in the the optimal way in this field

How best do you provide proof of your coding abilities on your resume in science fields?

I know that in coding and IT fields that coding certifications are basically worthless and that instead you provide proof of your abilities on github, is that the same in the sciences?

[dense mesa]

Projects

[brave spade]

any idea what type of projects would look good in the biological sciences

[dense mesa]

One of my friends is doing plague spread modelling in Python using stochastic processes

[undone willow]

Hi guys. I have a 3.070 gpa in my undergraduate. I finished my Associates in computer scienceand am about to get my Bachelors in Supply Chain Management (Buisness degree). Should I list that GPA on my resume or leave it out? Is it impressive?

[brave spade]

interesting! thanks

[compact swallow]

Leave it off. It's not a bad GPA, but not fantastic, so it doesn't really add much to your resume. Plus, if it's an associates and you're going for a bachelors, it's even less relevant.

[undone willow]

Sad but thank you. I was hearing from people that recruiters think badly of those who don't have show there GPA at all. Its kind of stressful

[true harness]

i was told to put it on if it was greater than 3.0 on a 4.0 scale

[summer roost]

The lower it is, the less valuable it is to put it. I definitely wouldn't recommend putting anything below 3.0 - and 3.07 is close enough to 3.0 that it might not be worth putting, though putting it probably wouldn't do much harm either.

[sudden quartz]

if a gpa is a deal breaker another company is a good idea anyway. If you leave it off an application they should ask for a transcript. GPA isnt anything to put on resume if its not great.

[summer roost]

if a gpa is a deal breaker another company is a good idea anyway.
"Well, if you're not going to offer me an interview then I don't want the job anyway!"

[summer roost]

It's fatalistic reasoning. You're suggesting that nothing you put in or omit from your resume should make any difference to whether the company offers you a job or not - you're a good developer, and any company that chooses not to offer you a job must be a bad company, regardless of whatever impression you made upon them - that if they were a good company, you wouldn't have made a bad impression.

It's impossible to argue against reasoning that says that whatever happens was always going to happen, but at the same time that reasoning isn't useful for guiding your decisions.

[sudden quartz]

Yeah this has nothing to do with why if GPA is a deal breaker for a company you dont want to work there anyway

Guy probably asks for GPA

[sudden quartz]

More like, you dont want to work for someone who cares about GPA statistic so much

[summer roost]

The question is about whether or not to list your GPA on a resume. Resumes are an advertisement for you; what you choose to put in your resume makes a difference to whether or not companies will find you more compelling than other candidates.

[thick juniper]

I've seen some jobs that demand a minimum GPA, so if the job you're applying to has that requirement, make sure to include your GPA. They'd probably assume your GPA was below their minimum if you didn't include it.

[summer roost]

If someone lists a 1.2 GPA on a resume, it tells me that a) they're a bad student, and b) either they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a resume, or that they think that GPA is one of the better things about themselves (more likely the former than the latter, granted)

[thick juniper]

(If your GPA is below the minimum, then I guess don't include it and pray for the best?)

[summer roost]

correct; job "requirements" are usually wish lists; if they're not having luck filling the job, they'll widen their net.

[undone willow]

I’m honestly trying to get recruiters to pay attention to help me find my first job. I’m a little desperate and still working on making a fully functional website with Flask with an API.

I just really want a chance

[sudden quartz]

Not to mention this is CS/engineering. Some of the best programmers i know have relatively shit gpas

in fact the very best one i know went on academic probation

[undone willow]

A lot of things are (r word). But a lot of companies are run by HR. And there not always well knowing. And they enjoy certain “universal” type qualifications. Like having a computer science degree or having a good gpa.

Interviews to me are a different beast. Not everyone gets them. And not everyone gets through one either.

[sudden quartz]

im just making the statement

[sudden quartz]

if you have graduated you should have enough o make a resume appealing, no?

[summer roost]

The companies that have GPA requirements tend to have relatively low ones - 2.7 or 3.0 or things like that. The point of wanting people to have a degree is to have some external entity certify that this person learned what they were expected to learn; the point of a GPA minimum is to push it further and try to narrow the candidates down to the ones that the school says learned the material best.

Though I'm inclined to agree that GPA requirements are often counterproductive. That said, note that the goal of the hiring process isn't to find the people who are "smartest", but to find the ones who are best at completing assingments.

[undone willow]

About to graduate and no. I do not/ will not have a CS degree. My guthub isn’t that impressive I believe. Im still working on it as I try to find a tech job.

The GPA question is whether it can be an asset towards getting my first real experience as a developer.

[sudden quartz]

yeeah youre different but GPA wont help you unless its above a 3.5 generally

[summer roost]

I thought you said you have a CS associate degree, just not a bachelor's?

[sudden quartz]

They have a bachelors in supply chain management

[summer roost]

and a CS associate degree, unless I misread

[sudden quartz]

@undone willow and youre trying for SWE positions?

[smoky quest]

companies are definitely not run by HR. There is a misunderstanding somewhere

[undone willow]

CS associates and soon a bachelors in supply chain management.

I’m looking to be a Python developer or full stack developer. Or maybe QA.

[smoky quest]

You should be ready for questions about the fact you went out of the CS circuit to then come back for a job in CS 🤔

With regards to displaying your GPA in an unrelated field, what should the interviewer take it as? Most likely whether you are good at abstract reasoning and studies but it wouldn't say much in terms of CS.
So I would follow the 3.0 limit as mentioned earlier

[summer roost]

An associate degree is less valuable than a bachelor's, but far more valuable than no CS degree at all. Don't sell yourself short. You do have a CS degree, even if it's not the best CS degree.

[undone willow]

I think thats a good point. Sometimes the Linkedin requirements get me mega down. Thank you all for your help.

[frozen gate]

And a masters is overkill for most positions unless maybe if you’re a career switcher

[graceful sundial]

Anyone have recommendations on how to pick up paid projects on the side?

In my first year out of college with an electrical and computer engineering degree, got a job as a field applications engineer for a german tech company and doing well with it, just about six months in, the company has its own python package for operating their tech so I’ve been working mostly with that for my experience in python, decent amount of opencv experience from work and college as well

Looking for opportunities that would mesh well with already having a typical 9-5, I’ve got a good grip on a lot of languages I first learned coding as Java my senior year of hs, picked up C, C++, and python in college, mostly use python and C++ now for work

[gritty rivet]

Check out platforms like UpWork or Fiverr to start with, and search previous discussions in this channel re: freelance work because the question comes up pretty much daily

[graceful sundial]

Ah gotcha thank you my pythonista

[shrewd rock]

Hi, I am in B.Tech 2nd year CSE. I am intermediate in C/C++. I also know some basic AI in TensorFlow. I wanted to know what career options are available to me and what skills should I acquire in order to increase my chance of being selected in interview

[cerulean fulcrum]

is there some method I can freelance or just find some work to do for free to get experience? I'm a freshman in highschool with the the PCAP (python associate certification), decently experienced in python, exposure to ml (tensorflow, keras, pytorch), and have tried many different things such as nlp, web scraping, tkinter, pygane

right now i really don't know what I should do, I poured a loot of time into machine learning (specifically reinforcement learning). I understand the very fundamental concepts but today i realized I dont really know the theory or math and think I wasted my time since i was just following tutorials and blogs that just put down code and don't explain

[smoky quest]

What's your goal? To improve your CS skills or to make $$$?

[smoky quest]

If your goal is to improve your skills, then do your own project. That will force you to think about it and dig deeper into it.
That will help you master the topics more rather than just follow some random tutorial

[cerulean fulcrum]

Yes but for example

I just spent the last 3 weeks building this Dqn model to have it fail

[smoky quest]

that's not a beginner project

[cerulean fulcrum]

Like I said I put a lot of time into dqn and reinforcement learning I’ve built multiple models in different environments openai gym etc

[smoky quest]

Yeah, and that's expected to be a tad too complex for a HS student.
If you want to dig into it, there are books though.

[graceful sundial]

Pro tip for all young people like myself especially the ones prepping for future interviews: register a business. You don’t have to actually do anything with it, just register one. Total cost is maybe $200 if that, call yourself a president, throw it on LinkedIn and your resume, give yourself an easy talking point about whatever your interests are in an interview. Not a bad idea to at least get a website for it as well to back it up a bit. Really shows a level of self-motivation that sets you apart from other candidates and you will naturally shine talking about it because you’ll be talking about something that is purely your interests and your ideas goals aspirations etc. Finding your niche helps a lot, I like computer vision, I registered one December 2019, besides a website with hardly a homepage it’s just talk, but I really enjoy drones and real estate and can talk to you for hours about drone photography and setting up cameras for real estate projects, and using footage to make 3d models of properties for sale that can be used for virtual tours