career-advice

[gritty rivet]

The best way to get a feel for what jobs are available and what skills the require is to look at job listings.

If your goal is to work abroad, the best way to get there is to study abroad. Easier said then done I know, but that's where I would focus if it's your goal

[short kiln]

Hey all - quick question, if I truly wanted to have a long career in the AI field, would I need math skills well beyond calculus?

[vapid jay]

Likely a different line than calculus. Probability/Stats/Linear Algebra are the ones that stand out off the top of my head.

[signal mango]

Yeahh.. thanks you!!

Thank you !!

[dry sapphire]

how does equity in a non-public company work as a component of TC? specifically, I got an offer that involves an ESOP (with 0 strike price). but when I decide to leave, how can I actually realise the value of my stock?

[smoky quest]

Depends on the details of the ESOP. If it's options or others, if there are vesting schedules...
Depends also on the conditions laid out

[dry sapphire]

options, 1 year cliff and then monthly over 3 years

but in general if the company is not public, can I even sell them to anyone???

[smoky quest]

Check also for things like clawbacks, and any effect to the vested but not acquired option

[smoky quest]

In general, you can't. You would have to wait for a liquidity event (acquisition, IPO)

There are also secondary markets, but it's a lot more special and your contract probably has some clauses to either try to forbid it or give the right to the company to buy them back directly

Also to make matter worse, whenever you buy your options, you may also have to pay some tax based on the gains between their strike price and their current price

which means you may end up having to pay taxes on some stock you can't sell

[dry sapphire]

this doesn’t apply here

[dry sapphire]

that kinda sucks.

okay but thanks a lot! then how do you personally value equity as a component of TC?

[smoky quest]

Great but I would recommend to double check though. I am sure it applies in the US and pretty sure it does in some european country.

[smoky quest]

depends if you are talking in terms of joining a company or leaving a company

[dry sapphire]

nope, no tax on any of that here

we have really good tax

[smoky quest]

where is it? Asking for a friend

[vapid jay]

Hi, I recently joined a small startup as a Backend dev intern. The interview process stretched to a full month which is not reasonable since they gave one 'task' was pretty so I didn't mind that. In this period I wrote them two follow up mails. After this yesterday I got an offer from them finally and joined their slack channel, I dropped an introductory message to show my presence (and few people replied on it). It's been two days since I joined. Do I really need to beg for work? I'm really pissed ngl.

[smoky quest]

did you sign anything?
Do you have a mentor?

[vapid jay]

I don't know anything about my mentor yet, I wasn't told anything about it. I signed a contract and offer letter but it had something related to sharing company's data to others but I haven't received any data to begin with. There's no bond of any type.

[lament pawn]

There is an onboarding process in some companies where someone will mentor you for a while.

[vapid jay]

I mean If it's an internship I should have a permanent mentor for the internship period but still I didn't had any onboarding process so far :/

[lament pawn]

Not a permanent one but a temporary one till you get used to the work.

I meant the code base and everything

[vapid jay]

Yep you're right but atleast they should've told me what they're working on and introduce me to the team and the work itself

[smoky quest]

when is your starting date?

[vapid jay]

It was 25th

[smoky quest]

yeah, contact them about who is your mentor, project, onboarding...

[vapid jay]

yeah I would've but since I don't know who my mentor is, the right person to contact would be HR ig?

[smoky quest]

yeah

[dry sapphire]

oh wait never mind I was wrong you do pay tax on exercise

I was thinking of something else 😔

[twilit forum]

@vapid jay one month of interview process is very reasonable, it's pretty short even.

No, or poor, onboarding is a red flag of an unstructured workplace though.

[vapid jay]

Hi, it's actually not only about the time they took but the lack of responsiveness they showed during that period. I'll drop a message regarding no onboarding process though. Thanks!

[proper mirage]

Hello guys

I just graduated with major in statistics and planning to go down the road to become a data scientist

Is it worth the hard work or i should do something else.....Basically everyone is saying data science is shitty and all......please guide me with your valuable insights....

[near ocean]

Who's saying that

[hasty plover]

i am also thinking about the same thing bro i need some help innit too

[near ocean]

It'd be nice if you mention what concerns you have with data science because i've personally never seen anyone complaining about it, in fact its a goddamn trend today, everyone's doing some sort of analysis on data

[twilit forum]

DS is everywhere, that means that means there will be loads of cash-grabby, not-so-serious actors. Both employees and employers.

If you are skilled the field is ripe with opportunity.

[urban dragon]

LMFAO

[near ocean]

this isnt appropriate for the channel or really any channel
images without context are just spam

[glossy steeple]

Hello guys
Is python enough to start freelance?

[gritty rivet]

Sure, have you looked for freelance jobs, on Upwork for example? That's the best way to identify what skills are in demand

[vapid jay]

i am a13 year old dont know python much how do i go about for my future career

[elder shell]

Study 5 hours a day, make a path to the future. This will help you

[vapid jay]

bruh thats not eleborate enough

[elder shell]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-nope-ok-gif-9933138

[vapid jay]

thx tho

[elder shell]

Python is too expensive. don't need to know everything, train making apps. Check which area of ​​software suits your taste. If it's analyzing data, create programs. Look for colleges near you, see if there are jobs available in your region, don't be a programmer, be a problem solver.

[twilit forum]

13? Well, The best advice I can give you at that age is to program a bit when you feel like it.

[vapid jay]

ok thx

[near ocean]

just go out and play, meet with friends, have fun, you're 13 jesus christ

[ivory sluice]

wdym by python being too expensive?

[elder shell]

lol

[elder shell]

He's young, I started programming on the moon when I was 13 years old, and I tried to learn everything from the fast forward. I want to tell him not to worry about knowing everything, in time he can

[elder shell]

But i think i used the wongre word

[elder shell]

Best thing when you're young is programming. Your grades improve, even your interactions. your way of thinking changes

[twilit forum]

N = 1 lol, but yeah, of course it is a constructive hobby. If they like to program there's no reason not to program, but that's not what they asked, they asked for career advice. 13 is a bit young to start planning your career, there's a lot to explore out there before you should deal with those considerations.

[near ocean]

The best thing you can do when youre a child is to be a child
If programming doesnt affect other aspects of their life then sure
If theyre gonna be stuck indoors all day for it its not worth it in my opinion

[fluid aspen]

What is good freelance job, you can do with knowing Python (and ofc some more languages, but i want to Python be there as one of them)?

[gritty rivet]

Web scraping, API development, all kinds of random automation. Search around on Upwork or whatever

[slate moon]

is it normal to fear that after learning python (not at an incredibly advanced level) i will be stuck with the knowledge without being able to find a job because i lack any degree and worse, i did not even graduate high school ?

[tropic needle]

Will python help me in a physics career?

[inland wharf]

likely

but physics is too wide of a subject to say

[tropic needle]

Quantum physics

[inland wharf]

you can be the guy who programs the shit out of something or the guy who theorise that something

[inland wharf]

mh.... not an expert in that

[tropic needle]

Oh

Thank you for your opinion anyway

[dark verge]

Probably! I have a friend in astrophysics and he programs in python all the time for it.

However that’s def not my field at all. But they do exist.

[mortal wedge]

Python helps in a physics career. Matlab is probably a better choice, but Matlab has a pricetag associated with it and some companies choose not to purchase licenses.

People don't realize these days how much programming is involved in the sciences. It's a powerful tool for many fields, as opposed to an end in and of itself. It's cheaper to simulate than it is to prototype.

(I specialized in models and simulation until I got out of that field)

[vague jolt]

I am so tired of the whole interview process.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until <t:1635364286:f> (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: discord_emojis rule: sent 34 emojis in 10s).

[visual rivet]

[simple maple]

Career question: which is more important, a cs degree or real world programming experience

If I have the second but not the first, can I break into big/FANG tech

[smoky quest]

cs degree is more important.
Without a degree, it's very unlikely to break into a big faang tech

[near ocean]

Degree gets you in the door
Experience gets you where you want to be (eventually)

[vague jolt]

how do I acquire more experience? I can't even find an interview

[near ocean]

If youre still in uni, you get internships
If not, you gotta settle for super entry level positions and try to lean on your personal projects more

[wintry harbor]

Hey there. How hard to get a job in the tech industry as a self thaugh? As some of you achieve that?

[smoky quest]

write more code for personal projects or OSS

#career-advice message

[smoky quest]

Also what makes you think your inability to get an interview is due to your lack of experience?
Are people calling you back or just ignoring your applications? What types of jobs are you applying for?

[dry sapphire]

in the US, how would you understand "return to academia"?

[shadow moss]

Return to academia?

[dry sapphire]

what does the phrase mean to you?

[rose hearth]

That someone has either gone back to school for an additional degree, or that they've gone back to research/teaching rather than working in the private sector.

[dry sapphire]

any preference for either meaning?

[rose hearth]

If I didn't have anything else to go on, I'd assume someone was going back to school unless they had done research/instruction in the past (which I assume would come up in conversation or resume)

[shadow moss]

Going back to school or going to research? It’s not a term I would use.

[ivory sluice]

i'd understand it as the 2nd.

and idk if this is the official US stance but to me academia basically equates to doctorate work

[dry sapphire]

exclusively?

[ivory sluice]

almost exclusively yes. return to academia seems to imply they were once in academia

[dry sapphire]

which would mean, to you, work that a professor/professor-candidate would do...?

[ivory sluice]

to me: a PhD candidate or some type of post-doctorate

but ofc i'd ask for clarification if it's of any importance :P

[dry sapphire]

nah, I just used that phrase in my personal statement (applying to master's) because to me it could be interpreted either way but in the US it might be different, so I thought I'd ask

thank you everyone for your opinions 🥣

[lament pawn]

what's opportunity for someone with an associate degree look like ?

[vague jolt]

They are just ignoring my applications. I am applying to internship programs at companies.

[smoky quest]

oh yeah. Internships are more difficult to get. It's a numbers game, or if you have connections

Especially if you aren't in your final year at university

[vague jolt]

I am in pre-final year

I don't have any connections and because of the pandemic, I wasn't able to interact much either

[pure narwhal]

will python help me in being a data scientist?

[dry sapphire]

most likely

[smoky quest]

I forgot to mention that no one will expect you to have any experience. That's the point of an internship

[leaden charm]

which field do you think is easier to get into data science or web dev

and for those with no formal education, how did you land your first job? Which project(s) impressed your emmployer?

[vague jolt]

but they do, most of the applications required that I had prior experience

[smoky quest]

I just googled a few ads for internship and none required any work experience

At most, they had something along the lines of "experience with frontend", which basically means "knows the basics"

[vague jolt]

could it be dependent on the country too?

[vague jolt]

they usually use work experience to weed out candidates

[twilit forum]

Web dev, and it is not close

In web you can make super useful tools with mediocre or even bad underlying code, architecture and technical know how.

They'll probably be hard or impossible to maintain and scale, but useful none-the-less.

In DS the saying "Garbage in, Garbage out" is 100% true, without deep technical, statistical and preferably domain knowledge you'll create garbage DS tools.

[smoky quest]

No. This is about internship for students. They cannot literally have years of experience.
You don't weed out interns based on year of experiences when they are still in school

that's just not how it works

[smoky quest]

Did you apply to internships or for real jobs?

[twilit forum]

Some do, but you probably don't want to work/intern at those places anyway. There are people who put up entry level positions requiring 5+ years of experience as well.

[smoky quest]

if the later, then yeah, they would expect to have some experience for any non new grad position

[vague jolt]

I applied to internships

which required previous internship experience

[smoky quest]

yeah these are probably not the ones you would want. They also aren't the majority.

That said, you may want to get your resume reviewed. Just in case.

[vague jolt]

Can I send it here for a review?

[vague jolt]

until when can I keep applying for summer internships for the next year?

[twilit forum]

I applied for mine in March or something when I wanted one. Granted that was in academia, they are probably more laid back in that regard.

[vague jolt]

and what about companies?

do they keep their internship programs open until May?

[twilit forum]

No clue, sorry. It sounds late but im just speculating. I have no experience intering at companies.

[leaden charm]

what project did you showcase an employer that landed you a job?

[near ocean]

theres no one project that will get you anywhere

[leaden charm]

I know that's why I wanna hear people's experience?

[dark verge]

No, or at least if you happen to find one that's open in May they probably wouldn't look at it. For interning at a company while still in school, most of the time they have their picks by March or April since companies are going to be pickier (by who you know and worked with, not so much experience) than academia. You really have to start applying for summer internships for companies like... as soon as they become available. Which in my experience is around the winter time before the following summer.

And for who you know and stuff, just add your bosses, academic advisor in uni, a professor you enjoyed, and instructor you're cool with. Even if you have a friend in the industry, list them as a reference. Someone just might recognize that name and pull you into an interview. That's what happened w/ me at least, had IT job at 18, listed boss and good co-worker as references, and when applying for internships a recruiter recognized who my references were and reached out, then I eventually got an internship.

[warm hatch]

hmm

[split thicket]

Hey, I'm looking to start a career as a software developer in the future.

Now I know that Python is probably not the best way to start if I want to head down that direction, but I already got the fundamentals of the language going, and I was told it's silly to stop now. So I'm looking to get some experience as a full-stack developer.
Django seems interesting and I already got some, albeit minor, hands-on experience with XML, JSON, basic SQL, and very basic networking. But as far as I understand I also need be very decent at Javascript, HTML & CSS in order to even consider applying for full-stack development jobs in the future

So my question - Am I better off just shifting my attention towards other languages(C, Java, or whatever is relevant for software develepment) instead? Or will studying JS etc' will eventually help me become a software development at some point in the near future?
also sorry about the block of text, just really wanted to get the whole picture across.

[near ocean]

Python is just as relevant in software development as any other language and is a great way to start a career

[split thicket]

Ofcourse, I understand it's very popular. I just feel a little lost with where I should be going with the language in order to reach my endgoal

[near ocean]

what is your goal then

[split thicket]

Well, software development

[near ocean]

Software development is as generic as a term can be
Is there an industry you wanna work in, a specific company? A specific tech stack?

[split thicket]

And I know that "software development" is a little broad. It's just that I can't really seem to like networking all too much, and I love creating programs

A specific company? Not really. I'd like to be flexible if possible.
The reason I'm attracted to programming, like most people I'd assume, is that I love creating programs and making it more efficient. I love the math and logic behind it - and getting an end result is just one of the most satisfying things I've experienced so far

I now understand that perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions. Maybe I should ask how can I know(or have a general idea) which field I'd like to go to? @near ocean

[near ocean]

Well the simple answer is to try a bit of everything and see how you feel about them
You could also just ask more targeted questions about some industries, companies, tech stacks, etc and gather opinions and experiences

[split thicket]

I see, how can I try a bit of everything though? I mean, what is "everything"?

And isn't Python somewhat limited in how far in can reach said "everything"? Like, I don't think you can do any front-end development with Python, correct me if I'm wrong

[near ocean]

I dont mean just python, try some JS, try some rust, try some backend in whatever language, try building a basic CRUD app, try working with sockets, try building an ML model, try implementing some simple AI

[split thicket]

I see. So branching out to other languages is not a sin.

Maybe I misunderstood what some people here have told me

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[split thicket]

Oh I figured they were your friend lol

[near ocean]

you'll not find a career using a single language and the more you know the more well rounded you become as a developer

[obtuse thorn]

lol

!ban 267965568903151617 no u

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @stiff timber permanently.

[near ocean]

i dont have friends lmao

[tender frost]

10/10 ban message

[split thicket]

Of course you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be helping lost plebs on the Python Discord Server

[near ocean]

im just bored at work lol

[split thicket]

Oh right, it's not 5 PM everywhere in the world

[near ocean]

anyway i would try at least one language from each paradigm, pick a functional lang, an OO lang, etc

and if you havent started somewhere already i would go with either python or javascript

[split thicket]

Oh I already have a solid grasp on some basic Python(OOP/Generators/Decorators, etc)
What are those "functional" and "OO" type langs you talked about though? Where can I read more about those?

[near ocean]

functional/OO/imperative/etc are just paradigms in use, its not that important right now
different languages have different structures with regards to their code, how they see and relate data, it helps to be aware of these things

with a solid grasp of python i would look into some popular libraries and maybe JS, to build a web app project

that way you can dip your feet into some webdev and see how you like it

[split thicket]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. took me a solid month to get a nice grasp of Python concepts though. Do you figure I'll have to divert the same amount of attention to JS or will it be easier?

[near ocean]

it gets easier after the first language, concepts transfer across language barriers

[split thicket]

I see. I'll play it by heart then I guess, and try to taste whatever the rainbow has to offer.
Thank you so much mate @near ocean You really helped me make some sense of this mess

[ivory sluice]

taste the rainbow 🌈

[split thicket]

This message was brought to you by a Skittle's guerrilla-saleperson.

[visual rivet]

What are yalls thoughts about a AI and Machiene Learning degree?

[dark verge]

Sounds cool, I'd assume a degree like that would have to be a masters in computer science or something. It feels quite specialized.

[twilit forum]

I was in the student feedback committee when the Uni I went to were starting their Data Science masters program.

It's cool if you like statistics and math, less cool if you like computer science.

For reference I studied bioinformatics, which is like pleb datascience for biologists.

[dark verge]

huh, wouldn't have thought that. nice call out.

[wary dragon]

Hey guys, my girlfriend is looking to transition from dentistry to anything in IT. She isn't that fond of programming (although as a last resource she is willing to try it) but she does have a keen eye for details and colors and I figured something along UI, UX, or something where she could feel she's achieving something. She has an ipad air and she could work on graphical stuff but she 0 experience so if there are courses that could really introduce her in the field (not necessarily on working via tablet, but on pc as well) let me know. I would really appreciate this!

[twilit forum]

I mean, I don't think that one single account from someone who didn't even attend the program should be something to base any decision on 🙂 It's just the impression I got during my breif interactions with those fields.
Maybe there are actual Data Scientists who can provide much better answers.

It is also my impression that Datascience is moving more towards a "fullstack" approach, if that makes any sense. Making use of "traditional" software engineering to make tools and services, so in that regard I think there is and will continue to be a high demand for strong CS people in DS

[twilit forum]

Why IT if programming doesn't appeal? Maybe graphic design or something would be better, it can be IT-adjacent if that for some reason is valuable.

IT is of course much broader than just programming, what is compelling her specifically?

[wary dragon]

Well, she is looking for a way to transition to remote work, but not writing, copyrighting, proof-reading or stuff among this (blogging etc). IT-adjacent works as I am working in the field and it could be something that would help for us to even work together (i am transitioning to a programming career myself). She's tried a bit of JS but it was a live course and although it was supposed to be beginner-friendly it started with GIT and versioning control when the students didn't even know what a software is on a higher-level

[twilit forum]

That sucks, a rough introduction can really put you off.

[smoky quest]

Looks like you are on track. Continue to help her explore careers and what they look like.
I would also say to not hesitate to get a 10$ udemy class if it's something that looks promising to her. It's way cheaper than making the mistake of picking the wrong career

[dark verge]

I’m not sure, a course in graphic design (material design most importantly) and/or html & css would be proficient enough for UX. Most people in the field (of product management) have a wide range of educations, most are in psychology, sociology, or graphic design.

For my day to day, I had to be able to inspect web pages, create prototypes and/or ideation mock-ups, test those prototypes out, and be in meetings all day talking about the specific product and why we designed it a specific way.

However, besides reading html and css, I don’t ever have to program anything or mess with code at all. However you will want to know how to build prototypes and mock-ups, and start building a portfolio.

She will have to eventually learn how to build basic webpages (edit: like just html and css, she wouldn’t have to touch js if she didn’t want to. I’ve personally never had to touch js in my job) to be able to understand the code she’ll have to read, however the more important aspect is design and being able to converse w/ your users directly. At least with just UX/UI.

And I’ve had both jobs and internships, remotely and face-to-face for product design/UX design ^^ this is just my experience

[smoky quest]

yeah, having some discussions with people who do the jobs can also be great to get some insight into the day to day activities

[dark verge]

For sure, especially since every companies product management sector is completely different. My experience will not be the same as another UX designers experience.

I was lucky enough to get into a company that already had a solid UX team, some companies have none at all and depend on their developers for product management and design.

And that’s two completely different workloads and involves different skills.

[wintry harbor]

Thank you :). Hope I can achieve that goal

[vapid jay]

sorry i'm french

[smoky quest]

don't worry, I am sure there are some nice ones too

But do you have a question?

[sudden quartz]

Depends heavily on the program details. Just study statistics if you specifically like ML

[hardy geode]

Do jobs accept people who're self taught? (first time speaking here)

[rose hearth]

Yes, though you often have a harder time getting the first job. Once you have experience and projects as "proof" that you can do the work, then it gets easier.

[native narwhal]

Can anyone tell me if there are actually any companies in 2021 that would hire juniors or interns?
As far as my research goes I can't really find any such jobs compared to job positions back in 2015 when there were plenty of junior positions
what do you think about this topic? has the environment shifted towards people who really take it to the next level and companies don't spend resources for training etc

[elder shell]

Software engineering or computer engineering? what is the best one to choose?

[balmy mural]

I guess this would depend a lot on your region, but from the 11 people who are completing their CS degree with me this year that I personally know, 2 are already working part time with companies they'll be joining full time after their degree, 5 have junior jobs lined up starting next year after their degree, 1 is still looking for a job, the rest(including me) are doing postgraduate degrees, so we haven't started looking for jobs yet.

[native narwhal]

Yeah well I just reviewed a few of those Junior Jobs and all of them say you need 2+ years experience 😄

[balmy mural]

For internships, majority of us did internships sometime in our 2nd and 3rd years. I didn't do any internship while studying, but did work part time for a startup. Those who did internships didn't have any problems getting into positions as far as I'm aware of, but not every company does have intern positions available

[native narwhal]

I mean lol I remember in 2014-2015 Junior meant you are fresh out of bootcamp or something like that

[balmy mural]

If it says 2+ years of experience, that's just their ideal candidate. You can still apply

[valid sinew]

How is the job marked in Canada at the moment for programmers?

[late cargo]

jobs typically list "requirements" as what they would like in an ideal candidate, not what is actually required

it's ridiculous but unfortunately it works that way

I know this is a long shot but any Americans have experience with living overseas while working remote for American companies? I'm an American data engineer, been working remote for like 7 years but inside the US, and I'm considering moving to central america if the career can survive it, e.g. Panama

wondering if there are any tax issues people have encountered, any big gotchas, or best ways to find companies that are OK with this arrangement... unfortunately most recent experience has been in healthcare so won't work due to private information

[ivory sluice]

i know a guy who knows a guy, i can ask. i believe this guy worked from canada

[late cargo]

would that guy be ok with a chat or something haha? canada probably not in the cards for me, looking for low cost of living, but dynamic might be the same

[ivory sluice]

he's a server member i'll send him here a bit later

[late cargo]

appreciate it my dude

[shadow moss]

I've had coworkers who worked from Canada and other places. You will likely have to pay taxes both in US and Locally. Finding companies ok with this arrangement can be difficult, it's probably best to go remote inside the US and then leave. Gotchas are immigration and changing jobs.

[late cargo]

agree that finding companies OK with this is a chore, maybe in five years not so much but for now yes... I think there are some countries that offer good deals as far as tax goes in order to get americans to move there

kind of getting a little bit cynical about prospects of putting up roots in america so just exploring what options are open

[shadow moss]

Sure, just saying, hardest will be finding a company that let's you because most of them will want to cut your salary.

[late cargo]

I know it's possible tho, worked in a startup where we paid a dubai dev $75 an hour, he was native dubai but point is that it's a salary that you would be typical in US but probably not dubai... it was through a talent agency so maybe that is the move

[candid skiff]

I'm here curious, does the US government has a free adult "GED" validation program?

[rose hearth]

National GED verification is done through private industry, and seems to have some cost associated with it. Students can request their own transcripts, with fees and details that vary by year and state.

[halcyon sail]

I'm interested in machine learning, algorthems, and data science i am just a begginer in python. I am in my last year in highschool and im hoping to be some what skilled enough to get certified when i graduate

[leaden charm]

what project did you showcasethat impressed an employer

[vapid jay]

hey

[worldly root]

I need small suggestion. So this year I have completed my graduation even though I don't have knowledge in coding I want to work in IT field. And I'm planning for higher studies. Here comes the question what should I learn to get a job in IT industry. Is learning python will be enough to crack a job?

[hazy wind]

hi

[gray gorge]

hi

I wanna know what kinda tasks software engineers are dealing with every day lol

like I know you guys code, but idk what the codes are like

[proven osprey]

i think they tell you what you do specifically when you're in college/uni, but if you wanted to get a small advantage, you can learn python/java/c++, etc. its only a small advantage but not a big one as you will most likely learn how to code in first year. but like the tasks of software engineers vary, but its mostly fixing codes, etc

[gray gorge]

yes I'm learning python now

[proven osprey]

same, i made the mistake of learning java first, but python is by far easier

[vapid jay]

Guys I had a question if you took comp sci in uni would you be able to get an internship like at the start of second year

[vapid jay]

Don’t u find Java like super old and boring?

[proven osprey]

tbh, i did find it boring and its reallllllly slow but i thought it would be more useful, but turns out most uni's/colleges start with python then move onto java in the secondish year

so i would deffo recommend python first

[vapid jay]

Yeah cuz python nowadays is more relevant to what goes on

[vapid jay]

Yep

[proven osprey]

yeah exactly i feel like i wasted time when i could've just learned python but my teacher said either one is fine cause we'll eventually get to java next

[vapid jay]

I’m learning Java in highschool I find it really boring

Dats why I started learning python on my free time

[proven osprey]

ahh gl java is so long but honestly it gets better ig

[vapid jay]

What type of projects have u guys done in python?

[dark verge]

sure, i didn't do comp sci but i did informatics and I scored an internship every year (besides during 2020 since no one was hiring)

At 18 I started doing desktop support and then kinda went up the ladder every internship. I didn't do much programming however I did do a bit of server side stuff once I got acclimated.

I did so at a company, but your university might be less picky and its good experience/good references too

My most recent internship was UX research since I recently did a jump from data analysis stuff to product management since I felt front end was more my style

[vapid jay]

Dang a internship every year! Even you first year?

[dark verge]

Yes, however you gotta think desktop support is like, low low, thats the bottom of the ladder

anyone can get a desktop support job. However I was also shadowing others during my own time bc curiosity

Which that's kinda what I was supposed to do too :) as an intern your goal is to soak up everything. and when youre doing low low end stuff you really want to get a taste of every sector in the actual job field besides whatever you may read online

Because any of the work is going to be somewhat easy, and whoever is your boss is going to be able (and is very willing and knows theyll have to) help you out tremendously whenever you need it. It's an awesome thing to have when you're just getting your toes wet

[vapid jay]

Languages are important, but the concepts are even more important for career advancement. Python is a great language, but keep an eye on the broader concepts too.

[keen hazel]

I'm interested in pursuing Data Science, BI or some form of analytics or MIS oriented career path when I finish my MBA in the Spring. Which would be more beneficial to take as my final elective for that general area of study: Advanced Data Analytics in ERP Systems (using SAP) or Data Analytics Application Development (using Python). The latter looks like it specifically deals with pandas, NumPy, IPython and Sci-kit

[buoyant sphinx]

I’m currently studying python in school and soon need to do my NAT 5s (GCSEs or whatever it is in America) for school and was wondering if anyone has any tips that could help me building python programs and things that could help in the future if I decide to make a future in this which interests me

[smoky quest]

you may be interested in https://roadmap.sh/

[buoyant sphinx]

Thanks

[halcyon lichen]

hey guys tommarow m interview is there can anyone help me with it

[near ocean]

Help you how

[swift quail]

Yes

[vapid galleon]

I was wondering if web development counts as software engineering or is it considered a different field?

[vapid jay]

I would say it depends on the web development. If you're doing html/css/js (sprinkled in), probably not. If you're using a front end framework, making API calls, writing a backend with a database, then yes.

[true harness]

web dev is a strict subset of software engineering

there's nothing about doing "html/css/js (sprinked in)" that makes it not software engineering

[vapid jay]

Nothing against the skill set, but I've spent some time recruiting software engineers and if I had a job posted for a software engineer that required experience and that was the skill set, I would not reach out for an interview.

Those 3 are more accurately classified as web development.

[true harness]

why isn't web dev software engineering then?

d a job posted for a software engineer that required experience and that was the skill set, I would not reach out for an interview.
i feel like this is highly dependent on what the other requirements for the job were, not simply the job title, no?

[vapid jay]

I could honestly argue that software engineering shouldn't have engineering in the title at all.

[true harness]

sure, but that's a different topic altogether

[vapid jay]

I just think it depends on the type of web development. If you have to make decisions about state, databases, multiple layers, it requires things that more closely resemble traditional engineering. html/css/light js doesn't have those concerns. Minimal interoperability, deployment, etc.

[formal apex]

anyone know about UK career and A levels?

what can you get for a GCSE grade 7 in computer science and A for a levels in computer science

[vapid jay]

And sure, the job description matters, but we are in a career channel and the question was does it count as software engineering. The answer is...it depends.

[rose hearth]

It's been a while since I was applying/interviewing, so excuse me if this seems obvious. I have four years of experience as a software developer, but 20 in various technical positions that sometimes involved writing software. Would it be unreasonable to apply for Senior Developer positions that want 5-6 years of software development experience?

[vapid jay]

I think that's in the ball park and would apply.

Especially if you meet a lot of the description otherwise.

[rose hearth]

This particular description is in another language (Ruby/Rails, rather than Python/Django where most of my experience is) but I have a friend-of-a-friend who works there so I know I can bypass the HR filter to at least land the resume in front of a human.

Thanks!

[autumn swift]

Absolutely not.

Rule of thumb, the entire job market is desperate as in many countries. If you meet a single one of the job requirements for a job that you want, apply. Most HR departments will post a job description of skills their ideal candidate has as a matter of course. But their actual hiring bar is extremely different to the one they dreamed of.

[smoky quest]

Languages don't matter as much as skillsets. If you can write a backend with python/django, you won't have any issue picking up ruby/rails

[gray gorge]

yes

[gray gorge]

but the concepts

[placid pulsar]

does anybody know why my python file keeps closing when im trying to run it

[naive jay]

Career options in python?

[smoky quest]

Google has plenty of good answers for "Career options in python"

[vast shoal]

This channel is for discussions about Python careers and the world of work, not technical Python questions. Try asking in #python-discussion or see #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[leaden charm]

what project did you showcasethat impressed an employer

[silent scaffold]

I know django

Could you please do a favor to god and hire me for your project

[plain grotto]

Hey i don't understand the true and not true operators any defintion?

[dense hollow]

dudes is it possible to create a full adv ai like jarvis using python

[near ocean]

No and this isnt the appropriate channel to even ask about this

[vapid jay]

Does one need to go to college to get a Python job?

[mystic light]

no

[dry sapphire]

no recruiting here...

[wet fractal]

Is there anyone working as an AI developer full time? I'm a front end developer. I'm interested in moving to the AI field.I would like to know about the usual projects you deal with. Could you please tell me what do you guys do in that job? If you could site some example projects, that would be helpful.

[proven sierra]

hello, is it okay to use an IDE as a beginner?

[gaunt elbow]

it's not only ok, it's pretty advisable

try vscode, probably the most popular at the moment; free, lots of extensions for anything you need

[proven sierra]

Ok, Thanks for the advice!

[twilit forum]

You need math, lots of it.

[swift veldt]

I worked on projects involving AI this summer. My projects, without getting into details, involved a lot of data processing and statistical analysis before I got to implement any neural networks -- and even then, NNs were not proven to be the most efficient technique.

The idea is:

• get the data
• analyse the behavior of the data
• identify a relation between your goal and the data
• define an output space (do you want clustering, classification, if so how many classes, etc.)
• explore the models at hand
• see the results
• iterate

[wet fractal]

Many thanks

[weak pine]

does someone have an exemples of app created bby python?

[orchid ivy]

depends on where you apply. big companies typically put a bachelors/masters in comp sci/mathematics/"relevant field" as a requirement

[orchid ivy]

hi, folks. my question is for the more senior folks. how do you know when it's time to pivot? i've been at my current gig for almost a year now. my role is a hybrid between software engineer and business analyst. i work primarily on risk management for a bank. i'm not sure if my chances of being on more dev projects are higher within the bank (i.e. corporate mobility) or elsewhere. i'm having a mid-life crisis, send halp.

[pseudo helm]

Elsewhere most likely. Unfortunately, internal moving of teams / projects is hard in a lot of places especially if they're not entirely tech focused (but even then sadly). You're best bet is to finish the year out (can look bad to be at a place less than a year). If it is soon, go ahead and start looking and filling your pipeline of companies you want to work at and positions you're qualified for (though don't worry about being 100% qualified).

Best way to get a higher pay bump too.

[elder totem]

im in high school but would really like a coding job, is it impossible?

[near ocean]

bro what

[vapid jay]

Hey guys! I’m in grade 11 and I’m tryna figure out what universities I want to go 2. Im looking at all the requirements and it doesn’t require science for a computer science in any university. Math and English is required and then the other courses can be any course, but in some universities they either want us to take science or computer science, but I’m just gonna take computer science instead of physics, or bio. Is this fine? Do they prefer me taking science?

[azure breach]

depends if they have computer science in the math department or engineering department

[vapid jay]

well there's a another program called computer engineering and for that course it requires physics

im pretty sure its in the math department

[azure breach]

computer engineering has to do with pcbs and stuff

[smoky quest]

That's part of the conversations you should have with your manager so they can tell you more about the opportunities at the company. Your manager should have some conversations on a regular basis about your career goals.

With regards to time to change jobs, it can depend on many criteria. And sometimes, it's not even planned due to an unexpected opportunity.
But it comes down to a combination of how you see the company doing, your group doing, your team doing in the future, your aspirations, what you are getting out of your current role, time of the year...

[summer roost]

you would know better than us how amenable your company is to internal mobility. Some are, some aren't - though banks aren't renowned for their internal mobility, from what I know. It's definitely true that the easiest way to get a pay bump is to switch companies, though. If your goal is better comp, switching companies might be the way to go - with the caveat that it may be better to stick with your current job for a little bit, since less than a year is quick to jump jobs. If your goal is a more dev-oriented position, you may have an easier time within the company: it's sometimes easier to move laterally within a company into a position that you weren't trained for than it is to take a new job in a position that you weren't trained for.

[leaden linden]

Currently supporting ansible at work but our employee that mainly wrote the scripts has left the company. I am wanting to pick this task up, but have very limited knowledge in python. There are thousands of books and online resources, its hard to find answers on which ones are actually worth diving into. Does anyone have any tried and true resources that I could use?

[summer roost]

do you know any other languages, or would Python be your first?

[leaden linden]

Python would be my first, never really had a reason to learn a language. Always wanted to, but never really had the time to actually dive into it. Now that I have a reason to, it just makes something click in my head that its time to start learning it. if that makes any sense

[summer roost]

Automate the Boring Stuff with Python is a great book for beginners.

[leaden linden]

I had this one from a year or so back when I wanted to get into it, but never really got attached. Any experience with this book/author?

[summer roost]

I haven't personally read it, but I've heard it's good.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[summer roost]

there's some other suggestions too

[leaden linden]

appreciate that

[twilit forum]

This is fairly company dependant. If you want to switch stack entierly then a different company is probably your best move.

I started at my company extremely junior, my background was in informatics not development, and a for the field low pay (not that low given my experience) but i have been given succesively more difficult tasks and raises to match.

TL;DR I guess is dont stare yourself blind at the greener grass, but swap if you are not learning.

[smoky quest]

also great timing to ask your manager to get an ansible/python class paid by the company

[leaden linden]

That was going to be my next thing, but I wanted to get some foreground first. I have found that if I dont know something in the least when I enter some kind of fast paced study, I get left behind like no other because I want to perfect the beginning stages before I move on.

[jagged hearth]

do you need a decent or even beefy pc to work as a data scientist?. And another question is machine learning engineer harder than data scientist?

[vapid jay]

Hi

I am new to Python and I am making a calculator

How can I make Code for adding more than two numbers?

so, any good python class for careers would u recommend?

@vapid jay

[summer roost]

if you need a beefy machine, the company will provide one.

[summer roost]

for learning what?

[knotty jacinth]

Hi guys, I applied to a Machine Learning Engineer position and the recruiter responded a few days later saying this:
Thanks for your application for the position of Machine Learning Engineer!

I'd like to schedule a call with you. When are you available for a whatsapp call? What about Monday at 3:30pm time?

Looking forward to hearing from you!
What does this mean exactly? Will this be a technical interview from the get-go or a simple phone call? Do I need to be studying like hell in the next 2 days?

[summer roost]

Almost certainly not. That sounds like a call with human resources to go over your background, discuss the position, and schedule a technical interview.

[knotty jacinth]

@summer roost ahhh this is some relief..

[vocal inlet]

I studied that book two years ago as one of my very first resources in learning Python. Python Crash Course is an excellent book for learning Python fundamentals and the exercises are just the right amount of difficulty

[knotty jacinth]

any advice on even something this basic?

[smoky quest]

They will go over your visa, current employment, expectations for your compensation, what you are looking for... And then try to schedule a technical interview within a few days

[knotty jacinth]

thank you very much for the help!

[smoky quest]

It does mean you should start to prep up for technical interviews

[summer roost]

the most basic interview advice I can give you is "relax". When you get to the technical round, they'll be trying to figure out what you know and what you don't, and cramming won't necessarily be helpful in tricking them into thinking that you know something you don't. By all means brush up on common interview questions, but at the end of the day, either you know the answers or you don't.

[knotty jacinth]

Thank you for this.. I am nervous for sure because machine learning has so much to cover and I'd be lying if I told you I knew it all..

[summer roost]

The other piece of advice would be to not pretend that you know something when you don't. I'd much rather a candidate admit to not knowing something than confidently make up an answer. We expect juniors to not know things, and knowing when to ask for help, and knowing your own limitations, is a huge positive sign for a candidate.

[knotty jacinth]

but unfortunately I do find myself cramming.. because wow there is so much from basics to linear regression to deep learning

[knotty jacinth]

this position only asks for 2+ years so I've been told anything under 3 years is aimed at Junior

[summer roost]

definitely, yeah. The "years of experience" in job postings is usually worth ignoring entirely. If you think you have the skills that a job description lists, it's worth applying even if you don't meet the years of experience they want.

[knotty jacinth]

thank you very much, this really helped me narrow down what I need to focus on!

[vapid jay]

like data science in python

[minor bough]

google has start working for making the most powerful AI, be ready for the end of the world guys.

[tepid hedge]

until it starts ending we dont need to worry

[minor bough]

and im worried

[smoky quest]

#python-discussion is more appropriate for misc. discussions

[dense hollow]

wt should i learn like computer vision,nlp,,ml,dl,ai,neural networks or any other to create jarvis

pls reply???

[smoky quest]

This is not about careers #python-discussion would get you more chances for an answer

[vapid jay]

be me
freelance
$30 per task
new customer
tasks related to cryptography
sends a car's blueprint???
??????

[near ocean]

This isnt a meme channel my guy, this is a careers related discussion channel

[vapid jay]

freelancing is a career

[leaden charm]

what project did you showcasethat impressed an employer

[near ocean]

Greentexting isnt any form of conversation or conducive to a discussion

[rigid inlet]

im thinking to start python , i know like the basic functions and operations. i want to build bots and anything tht possible in phyton, can someone possibly help me?

i need u know just a starter tip if possible

pls welp

https://tenor.com/view/pls-give-me-begging-i-want-i-need-gif-14273582

[swift veldt]

this would fit more #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

How much whould a Certified Expert in Python Programming (CEPP) make

[leaden charm]

about three fiddy

[vapid jay]

What can u tell in dollars plzz

[eager vigil]

anyone leren me python?!

[leaden charm]

I agree with this statement

[eager vigil]

so u can teatch me?!

[vapid jay]

@leaden charm hello 👋

[leaden charm]

salam maleikoum

[lucid vapor]

Is that a certification program?

[vapid jay]

Yes

[eager vigil]

can u python?!

[vapid jay]

@lucid vapor can u answer my question plzz

[eager vigil]

can anyone learn me python pls

[lucid vapor]

Them there's no way to know, it just depends on the job. To some, certifications mean nothing, while to others, it has some relevance. But getting a job with always be about you, not one certification you've earned, although that may affect it.

[eager vigil]

u can make much mone from python u know?!

money*

[lucid vapor]

That's off topic for this channel. You'd be better off asking in #python-discussion . Although I doubt any of us are willing to personally teach you python. Check out https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/ instead.

[vapid jay]

@lucid vapor well how do I found out

[eager vigil]

. maybe

[jolly forge]

I need help 😦

[vapid jay]

so guys do u know any data science online class would be good for future career?

[swift veldt]

the deep learning specialization by DeepLearning.ai/Andrew Ng is pretty good (coursera).

[fallen tangle]

lan türk

hello chat channel is there anything like

if so can you tag me

[ivory sluice]

please note that each channel has a specific topic that should be respected. you can try #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[radiant sky]

hey everyone.... can u guys recommend any course on devops with python(I am currently a devops intern which is a new field to me but i have used python for competitive programming)

[fallen tangle]

excuse me

[fallen tangle]

You can learn from udemy but it is paid

[radiant sky]

Tqs for the reply @fallen tangle but can u be more specific about the course

[fallen tangle]

Able to develop a modern website design as mobile device compatible (responsive)
Software Development, Business, IT and Software, Design, Excel. $3.58
You can start your career as a web developer with up-to-date technologies.
You will be able to develop a modern website with Visual Studio Code and Visual Studio.
You can create and manage databases with Microsoft SQL Server.
A modern end-to-end e-commerce (can be developed with design, database and coding)
don't get me wrong this is not an ad

[fallen tangle]

I think it will probably work

[vapid jay]

thanks

[ivory sluice]

so you're currently employed as a devops intern?

[radiant sky]

yep

[ivory sluice]

did you start yet? I would imagine the company would give you some kind of outline of what knowledge was expected or to be taught to you, and then you could find specific additional resources based on that

but idk any devops 👀 mostly chimed in bc you got some irrelevant advice above

[near ocean]

I dont think irrelevant advice should be left in the channel or dealt with this way, someone should just get rid of it and/or warn people for leaving unfounded advice here

[buoyant seal]

quite conflicted to recommend anything.
DevOps is just... quite bleeding edge stuff, and not a lot of up to date books around. instead of giving advices on my own, I'll just recommend people to answer questions:
https://discord.gg/devops

[pastel root]

ho

hi

[mint jackal]

Google’s IT Automation with Python Professional Certification. Has anyone enlisted for this to recommend it or not? Is it helpfull for a future carrer on python or just a money grabber?

[fallen tangle]

where can i learn python for free

[graceful urchin]

I have 7 years experience in Python Automation, I have mostly work on developing python automation. I would like to change my career to data scientist any suggestions?!

[pale tundra]

Hello, can you give me advice how to start for web dev with python ?

[smoky quest]

there are degrees in CS, bootcamps or self-taught. That's in increasing order for finding jobs afterwards

[smoky quest]

Check if your current company has such opportunities and talk to the team to see how they work, what they need.
Otherwise, start learning more about it, doing classes/books/etc. and apply to such jobs

[pale tundra]

Can you provide me link to good quality bootcamps or degree for example thanks

[smoky quest]

I don't know any good quality bootcamps. With regards to degrees, you can google "top CS schools"

[pale tundra]

Thank you!

[digital wraith]

a

so like basically i got into coding a while ago and looked around for careers that i found interesting, after a while i found computer sceience but since there are so many branches idk which to even pick @true harness

[true harness]

what do you like to code. also, are you in the US

[digital wraith]

i dont really care what i code as long as i can make sure of it,mhm am in the US

[true harness]

have you taken any programming/comp sci classes in school? what kinds of projects have you made, which ones did you like the best?

for anyone else reading, original question was

y is there so many branches in computer sceience and how would i pick one to major

[digital wraith]

well i use to code a bit in lua but one of my dad's friend told me to get into python, so i learned the basic and intermate stuff, have made stuff from puzzles to games with different mechanics and so on, i mostly find ideas on youtube and i work on em based on my knowledge of python

[true harness]

if you really aren't sure, there's nothing wrong with a generic comp sci degree

[digital wraith]

when u say generic wdym?

[true harness]

no concentration in anything like data science or cybersecurity or whatever, just comp sci

[digital wraith]

cause most colleges i apply to usually have like 4 different major in which i pick

[digital wraith]

if i was to do it what would i be expecting to learn then

[true harness]

a lot of schools have course catalogs and sample course schedules for majors, you should look at those

[digital wraith]

honestly i might atcually try that out then

[red atlas]

what are all the common "careerpaths" which are python related, stuff like web-development, devops, data science

[red atlas]

found what I needed, nevermind

[grand sequoia]

Yo. I need help

I am programming a monkey with this bionic chip. The bionic chip contains code that tells him to do whatever he needs to do. The only language that is available is python for this chip

And I'm trying to code him to give me an orange juice. Advice?

[inner wren]

@grand sequoia Please don't try to ping @everyone or @here. Your message has been removed. If you believe this was a mistake, please let staff know!

[grand sequoia]

I'm left in the dark.. dang

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. This is #career-advice . You would have more chances for answers in #python-discussion

[grand sequoia]

oh... ok

[gritty rivet]

Career advice: don't implant bionic chips in monkeys or anybody else, but especially not for orange juice

[vital scarab]

Don't know where to ask,
Is it possible to make software from Python?

[magic ore]

yes

[vital scarab]

Oh, thanks

[radiant sky]

actually i got some hand on exposure to linux terminal and bash scripting as a part of my training in which i have been assigned a task to create a bash script that "automates the installation of lamp stack and cloning the latest push of the given repo and backing up sql using mysql dump ,everyday at midnight using crontab" ..... Then i had some training sessions on Docker(Building images, Running multiple containers using docker compose, etc...)

[ivory sluice]

oh v cool!

[radiant sky]

Thanks @buoyant seal

[plucky echo]

how much python wuld i have to know to get a job programming stuff

[wraith rover]

!warn 690477357458259998 Please don't post unapproved advertisements here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @small plinth.

[vapid jay]

It depends on what programming languages you already know, familiarity with software/web development, familiarity with other new technologies, understanding algorithms and data structures, and work experience in the field. In general, the basics of Python alone are not enough for anything. Unless, of course, you can convince your employer that you're the GOAT.

[leaden charm]

what project did you showcase an employer that impressed your employer

web dev or data science preferably

[plucky echo]

Alrighty

Algorithms and data structures got it

[dense mesa]

Has anyone freelanced as a python dev before?

[grave marlin]

how can i start learning python for free and quickly?!

[mystic light]

which language do you know(English? or any other along with english)?

[grave marlin]

english and a bit of spanish

[mystic light]

Watch Bro Code's tutorial on youtube
and follow w3schools regularly

Like if you learnt printing hello world today
also try w3schools method it is GOAT, i prefer w3schools if you can learn by documentation else: w3schools along with youtube

[near ocean]

I don't understand why people still recommend w3schools when we have a rich resource tab curated by experienced python developers here in the server

w3schools is shit in comparison

[ivory sluice]

staff have a thread specifically to shit on w3schools

[ivory sluice]

!resources please check out the curated resources for learning python below. this #career-advice channel is in regards to careers, jobs, etc. feel free to continue discussion on learning python in #python-discussion

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[grave marlin]

thank you

[mystic light]

i did not defined w3schools as a resource, it is more like cheatsheet

[near ocean]

cheatsheets are resources

[mystic light]

[near ocean]

just dont suggest bad resources? its not that hard to look into the quality of things before you suggest them to people

[gritty rivet]

Search the channel, you'll see previous discussions with folks who do (not me)

[dark verge]

w3schools imo is brought up sm is because schools and universities tell you to use it as a resource for any reference you may need. And for a lot of people it's their "first resource" they're allowed to use in school. w3 is wildly elementary. Also intensely outdated, especially for web dev stuff (Never used w3 for Python).

I used it in school since instructors told me to refer to it for anything, and it was fine. However theres so many resources available that arent w3schools and then youre asked why not use those instead? If there's better, then why not use em?

[vapid jay]

anyone know css and willing to help me with some errors?

[smoky quest]

That would be more likely on a different channel. This channel is #career-advice , you may want to try #web-development

[vapid jay]

k

[versed hatch]

anyone work with a company that uses the Rippling HR/MDM app? what kind of things does it track?

[vast bolt]

ive seen that comp sci programmes aren't really that code-based. if so, what course should one focus on taking if they want it to be code-heavy

like in college

[pseudo helm]

Not that MDM in particular, but others.

It definitely gave my IT org the ability to add/delete apps, email accounts, and even wipe the phone entirely (IIRC).

[pseudo helm]

Yeah, most CS programs give you a -taste- of coding but don't really dive deep. CS is more about learning how to problem solve computer-ish problems, give you a sample of a lot of theory and a pinch of coding here and there.

You're going to have to supplement additional coding on your own via tutorials, courses, etc from third parties.

[vast bolt]

great, thanks for such a detailed reply!

[pseudo helm]

Also, forgot what room we were in -- this discussion is better for an OT channel.

[pseudo helm]

Of course! I've taken on a lot of interns and/or just career advice for bootcampers and new CS graduates.

CS is great, but for the most part is fairly shallow and broad.

[paper birch]

hi

[minor ember]

just in cucarachas

[hollow yacht]

is anyone else worried that our field might become too oversaturated in the near future? programming is one those things where if you have a decent computer with internet access and just a little determination anyone can learn. so anyone could become a web/app developer. and what other people start learning 5 years from now might be the latest and greatest technology while people with jobs will still be using the older technology and will fall behind so we start losing out on better jobs because we only have experience in python3 instead of python69420 and only know html5 instead of html666

[smoky quest]

nope, not afraid.
Some people were asking the very same question 5, 10, 15 and even 20 years ago.

Regardless of the field, if you don't keep up, then you will definitely become obsolete

[orchid ivy]

not at all. the barrier to entry for engineering/programming is so low. anyone can code, but not everyone can solve complex issues, or design software architecture. technology moves fast. just because something is new, that doesn't make it better. you're not expected to know everything, otherwise you'll constantly be trying to catch up. you're expected to adapt and stay relevant.

[summer roost]

There is still more demand for programmers than there is supply, in my experience.

[smoky quest]

The field has also been steadily growing and isn't showing any sign of stopping

[rose hearth]

Software is eating the world.

[vapid jay]

This exactly , there may be some code assistance functions that get rid of the need for super basic programmers in the near future but as long as they learn some more stuff they will be able to get moved to more advance level programming that can't be handled that easily. As long as you broaden your skill set there is opportunities. Thought this is true in most industries.

[frail shard]

what about being a youtuber?

Ezy ig

[summer roost]

the hard part of programming isn't writing software that meets a spec, it's helping the business to design the spec, and figuring out the places where they aren't explaining themselves well, or are missing an important piece of the problem. Programmers take an idea and figure out how to express it to a computer. That job won't go away any time soon, because rigorously defining an idea is a skill.

no matter what type of code assistance things might exist in the future, they can never remove the job of rigorously defining your goal, and so there will always be programmers doing that job, even if the tools we use to do it change.

[kindred hatch]

Ah nope

[idle mango]

Hey guys

[vapid jay]

Does full stack Web development have career security

[buoyant seal]

if we assume that full stack web dev is: Frontend + Backend + DevOps, then yes it has
Security is usually united with DevOps and transforms to DevSecOps

[vapid jay]

Aight thanks, I'm kinda at a crossroads and don't know what I want my career to be

I got 1 year left until I have to pick what high school I'mma go to in Sweden (It's called Gymnasium and it's like a mix between High school and Uni. You get a lot of responsibility and you also get to pick your courses, and also what you want to work with)

I feel like working in new technologies (Blockchain, AI, Web 3.0, etc.) Could be way more lucrative but also way more risky. I'm 14 and already have a bunch of webdev experience however idk if that even means anything in the grand scheme of things.

I could also go with the safest bet which is a lawyer

I don't know if asking random people on discord is the best way to choose career path, but you guys have a lot of experience.

[buoyant seal]

people become DevOps from Ops(Sysadmins...) or Devs(Backend...) usually,

so basically from full stack dev it would be the road
Web Backend Dev -> DevOps -> DevSecOps

[slow charm]

Hi

Help please

[buoyant seal]

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources/guides/asking-good-questions/

Firstly, could you read #❓｜how-to-get-help

[slow charm]

Sorry

[buoyant seal]

Secondly, copy the code and use syntax highlighting,
using mobile photos of low quality is just asking for pitchforks

[vast shoal]

This channel is for discussion of Python careers and the world of work. Like @buoyant seal said, see #❓｜how-to-get-help instead.

[twilit forum]

I'm a Swede, your choice of high-school/gymnasium doesn't matter much, nothing to fret about.

A career in AI isn't really risky as it stands in Sweden, most of my classmates got jobs really easy, I went towards dev instead of DS.

Even if the AI buzz calms down, there will never cease to be a need for applied statistics.

It'll be faster to go to Uni with a technical highschool degree, but the prep year provided by all major unis is amazing as well if you want to work with other stuff for a couple of years after HS

[vast shoal]

I'm also Swedish, and I would not say that lawyer is necessarily a safer bet than going into software here. I don't know about salaries, but I get the impression there's much more demand for developers than lawyers.

[vapid jay]

You sure? Everyone treats it like a huge ass thing.

[twilit forum]

You also need to get really good grades in Uni to get a good job as a lawyer, for devs no one cares.

[vapid jay]

Hmm that would probably make sense

[vapid jay]

I'm good at getting good grades.

[vast shoal]

As long as you get good grades on the basics like svenska, engelska, matte and whatever the requirements are for the uni program you wanna take, it doesn't matter much, no.

[twilit forum]

So are ALL the other lawyers mate, it's a competative field, while SW is collaborative. I prefer the latter honestly.

[vapid jay]

I heard nowadays it's about Meritpoäng so I'm taking Russian as an extra (Because I'm Russian)

[vapid jay]

I am a pretty competitive person tho lmao

[buoyant seal]

Where would be needed Russian language? 🤔

[vast shoal]

If you really want to be a lawyer, I'm not gonna tell you not to go for that. My point is just that if you want a sure thing, software is probably a better bet than law.

[vapid jay]

Them merit points. Also I know a lot if Russian people in SW

[twilit forum]

Yeah I mean they're both great careers, but a SW degree is also a incredibly safe bet.

[vapid jay]

Aight, do you think SW has a high ceiling in what you can earn? And what about making your own business

[twilit forum]

Both works, money is important, but don't pick careers solely based on that

[vast shoal]

If you get into a FAANG, the ceiling is very high. Elsewhere, it's high but not incredibly so.

[vapid jay]

What is FAANG?

[buoyant seal]

Top five biggest companies
Facebook and etc

[vapid jay]

Ah

[twilit forum]

Facebook, Alphabet, Amazon, Netflix, Google. no wait...something like that haha not alphabet AND google

[vapid jay]

Ain't alphabet and Google the same thing

[vast shoal]

Alphabet used to be Google

[twilit forum]

Maybe Alibaba 🤔

[buoyant seal]

Apple instead of alphabet

[vast shoal]

The acronym was created before they changed it, I think.

[vapid jay]

I ain't working for them chinese

[vast shoal]

It's Apple, yeah.

[twilit forum]

That does make a lot more sense 😄 As you can see, I don't work in FAANG lol

[vast shoal]

Alibaba's probably not too shabby either lately.

[vapid jay]

You made me change perspective on SW tbh

[twilit forum]

You do not have to decide now, if you pick Natur or Teknik you can apply to any University. Nothing wrong with getting a trades degree and studying layer either though.

If I were 16 now I would have gone to electrical trade school and then studiet Electronical Engineering or embedded systems at Uni when I was like 25.
Starting Uni early was the biggest mistake I ever made, cause I was just a kid who had no idea what was out there.

Hindsight is 2020. Not to discourage studying of course, but I remember feeling like there was no other option than going straight to academic pursuits.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, natur is very versatile

[vapid jay]

Hello, any bootcamp or recognised course in python? I am thinking about some course that facilitates post job insertion. Thanks in advance

[near ocean]

What is post job insertion

[gritty rivet]

I'm doing Backend with Python at Nucamp right now. They do have career counseling for grads if that's what you mean

[vapid jay]

👍 👍

[twilit forum]

Grass is always greener I guess 😄 I studied biotech engineering, but haven't worked a day in it.

I've got some friends in electro, and i'm super intrigued by the low level stuff they work on.

Actually building circuits and programming them is such a far cry from crapping out API end-points in python 😄

[queen solstice]

Any resources for getting good at competitive coding ?

[vapid jay]

bribery

[queen solstice]

Makes sense

[vapid jay]

no problem

[vivid crypt]

I want to be a computer engineer but i only know a bit of python

i only know how to make a calculator

[vast bolt]

well, you can always learn more

[undone moth]

Is python dangerous

[twilit forum]

The snake, yes.
The programming language, no.

[undone moth]

What about anaconda

[undone moth]

Python 🐍 is non-venomous

[vast shoal]

A Python can kill a human in minutes.

Wait, why is this #career-advice?

[void needle]

I’m currently learning python 3 what form of Java should I learn along with it

[near ocean]

15+

[jovial summit]

I'm reading this contract and it says 3 months probationary period with half of the payment for the 3 months made. It's a UK company. :(

[near ocean]

lmao, instantly dropped

[jovial summit]

Is that how things work in the UK?

[near ocean]

no its not, thats just someone trynna scam people out of paid labour

[jovial summit]

40hrs a week with half pay after 3 months. Wow.

[near ocean]

might be worth it to ask and clarify? i've never heard of anything like this

[jovial summit]

Welp.

[near ocean]

if thats exactly what they meant i would honestly name and shame them

[balmy crest]

how i can learn python

[near ocean]

you can start by asking in the proper channels #python-discussion

[balmy crest]

ok

[jovial summit]

@near ocean once he clarifies. Lol.

[balmy crest]

which operating system is best for python

[near ocean]

just use what you like

[acoustic merlin]

do employers prefer you have a degree or experience?

[marsh wind]

both.
but if your question is: should I get a degree versus should I drop the college (or not even apply) and try to get some experience as self taught and etc then the typical answer is: get a degree

[acoustic merlin]

It's mainly because I can't decide whether I want to go to college (UK) for 2 years, where I'd be learning about 3 days a week which would give me time to get a job and work on my own projects, or go to university for 4 years and get a full degree.

[marsh wind]

you are probably better off waiting for someone with UK experience giving you a more qualified advice but as far as I know getting a full degree is often justified.

[twilit forum]

I think a worthwhile question to ask yourself is whether or not you want to study or if its just a means to an end.

[acoustic merlin]

i guess it's just a means to an end, with the college I am looking at, theres the option to go to 3rd year uni after completing 2 years at college. But I also want to be earning money and getting experience at the same time

[smoky quest]

school year >>> work year.
you would be better off studying more and having side projects to go deeper in them than have a job for the purpose of getting experience. You would get more out of it.

[buoyant seal]

I think it is smth like
Your_total_value = (1 + Years_in_university / 2) * (1 + Years_of_work_experience / 2)

The point is, with university, your work experience years will give you X times more value ;b

[twilit forum]

I have the opposite experience from a personal perspective.

[smoky quest]

It's a big world. But I can bet you are the exception more than the norm

[acoustic merlin]

ive always thought as software engineering as a kind of field where experience is the only thing that matters

because what good is a degree when you cant prove you can do anything with it?

[smoky quest]

That's wrong way to look at things. Writing code is the easy part. There is a reason people talk about code monkey or pissing code.
The valuable part is know what to do and how to take a project to completion. That requires an education for that.
Students do actual things at schools, they don't just play CSGO for 4 years 🙂

From a career perspective, without a degree, many companies won't even talk to you. And it will be harder to move up the ladder

[gritty rivet]

I think this is a common misconception based on the people who do well in spite of not having degree. But not having one is a handicap without question

[twilit forum]

Could be a cultural thing, but the consensus among the alumni where I went is that the real learning starts after your M.Sc.

Could also just be bias.

[smoky quest]

Never heard of that. And I have worked across apac, emea and amer

[near ocean]

Varies from school to school, some MScs are harder than they need to be, others are a breeze

[marsh wind]

which culture is that? ( I mean country moslty)

[twilit forum]

Sweden

[marsh wind]

if you don't mind sharing that info ofc

interesting. From what I observed Europe is usually quite degree-oriented

[twilit forum]

Sure, they're free after all

[smoky quest]

They are indeed

Also the culture is pretty different. There is a lot more value in hustling in the US

[acoustic merlin]

https://leonardo-career.talent-soft.com/job/job-software-engineering-graduate-apprentice_2874.aspx

I was thinking about applying for this, not sure whether doing just uni for 4 years would be better tho

[nimble jetty]

if I want to get work are I need a certificate first?

[smoky quest]

It does look interesting and it looks like you get a bs at the end too.
But I am not familiar enough with apprenticeships in the UK to say anything meaningful

[smoky quest]

you don't but anything makes it easier

[copper yarrow]

hey guys, I need advice, Its a major fork in the road, and I realize I really really like programming, Do I need Academic track(basically allows me to go to college) but I need to learn science math engineering stuff(especially math I am weak in.) Or go straight to a TVL track(basically lets me go straight to prepare me for a job without college) and one of those is programming. Should I go for academic instead, I really really hate complex math.

[nimble jetty]

on my opinion you can go to TVL track if you have certificate cause certificate proof your skill

[smoky quest]

just scroll up. There was a similar discussion above

[marsh wind]

keep in mind though you country's/local culture and typical tracks as they can vary

[copper yarrow]

Schools here are a big gamble, so if I take STEM as my SHS track then theres a chance that there will be tons of chem and calculus but zero Computer science being lectured (had that happen on highschool alot of times hate it)

like seriously, most ICT lectures ive had in the past are all about microsoft suite and theyre the easiest thing to learn and non is about programming whatsoever. bummer

[smoky quest]

that wouldn't be much of a CS school/degree then

There is also a big difference in education for <= highschool and > highschool

[wispy raven]

How are the typical working conditions for programming-related jobs? I do not work well with the typical structure of 8 scheduled hours straight with only 1 break. Im mainly hoping to eventually end up in a job that is flexible with work times

[smoky quest]

Overall it's on the flexible side. But it's very much specific to a company/role.
There is also more flexibility as you become more senior.

[wispy raven]

So many workers program for only 1 company?

[smoky quest]

1 company at a time, yes

jobs are typically full time jobs.

Unless you are a contractor/freelance

[wispy raven]

Thats either a good thing or a reallt bad thing for me

Im considering freelance but i dont know much about it and sounds potentially risky

[smoky quest]

it's more risky and require a lot more skills since you have to find the clients, contracts... and deal with them

[wispy raven]

Yeah

Also do programmers working for a company need to work for a certain amount of hours or is it the type of job that can be finished faster if the work itself is done more efficiently?

[smoky quest]

8h a day

[wispy raven]

oof

[smoky quest]

if you finish sooner, it means you don't have enough work

[near ocean]

Tasks generally stretch to fill the 8hours

[wispy raven]

i guess thats good

[near ocean]

Also youre not going to be coding 8h straight in any job because thats not how this industry works

[wispy raven]

Ok thats good. My main concern when it comes to jobs is that i am bad at working for long periods of time but work very quickly and well in short/moderate bursts

[smoky quest]

you are supposed to take breaks from your screen/sitting position anyway

[near ocean]

It also depends on your role in a team, i have to support non tech people and get constantly interrupted to answer questions
It wouldnt make sense if someone bitched at me for not working continuously

[smoky quest]

note also it's very much like a school project. You don't spend your whole time writing code. You may need to do some research, talk to people, think about things, brainstorm with some coworkers, write up some docs, debug some problems...

[wispy raven]

Ok good

Do companies usually treat programmers well? I know sometimes companies can be absolute garbage to their workers

[twilit forum]

My experience has been good. Varies by country and company though.

[wispy raven]

Im in america

[true ridge]

hi all

i just downloaded discord but i have been doing python since i was 7

anyone there

Does anyone use Tkinter

?

[twilit forum]

Wrong channel, there's #python-discussion for general stuff, if you want help there's a how-to in #❓｜how-to-get-help

Welcome!

[smoky quest]

They are treated much better than a lot of profession

[true ridge]

ok sorry

[twilit forum]

No woz man, I hope you find someone to share your experiences with 🙂 Didn't mean to be abrassive

[dry sapphire]

it depends on what kind of company. in general, companies primarily producing some sort of tech product will treat you better, because you are literally making the thing they're selling (and you're skilled labour)

on the other hand, if you are one SWE in a company of a thousand other non-SWE and all you do is really maintain the company blog...

[wispy raven]

swe?

oh nvm

[undone vine]

Hello guys, how many years need to define a person as senior Python dev?

[summer roost]

I don't think of "senior Python developer" at all. By the time someone is at the senior level, I expect them to know several different languages, when to use each one to best effect, and how to make reasonably large architectural decisions about caching, database layout, service architecture, etc. That usually takes around 5 years of industry experience.

[stark socket]

I would say 15

[hollow yacht]

I had an interview last Monday that went really well and they said the recruiter would get in touch with me with next steps. I sent the recruiter an email a day after the interview with the standard, short "thank you for the interview/looking forward to hearing from you" email but didn't hear anything back. So that was a week ago today. Would it be a bad idea to email them a follow up email tomorrow? I'm getting antsy

[summer roost]

If you can afford to wait, I would recommend it. My guess about what's happening is that even if they would like to hire you, they likely had interviews with other candidates already scheduled. They don't want to cancel on those candidates without ever interviewing them because that makes the company look bad and causes hurt feelings from the candidates (making them less likely to apply in the future or recommend friends), so it could be that you'll hear back from them whenever all of the interviews they had already scheduled have been conducted.

In my experience, rejections usually come quickly, offers take a bit longer.

reaching back out to them isn't likely to make them move any faster - unless you've got some new information to provide them, like that you've gotten another offer, and would like to know if they intend to make an offer as well.

[smoky quest]

It's less about the years and more about the role and responsibility. But roughly, people get there after 5-8 years depending on different factors.
See also https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/overview.html or look for different career ladders

[buoyant seal]

xD and we can add that different companies understand quite differently what means being Senior. I like the ladder... it is certainly presenting high standards
enough to have them as goals for a very long time

[smoky quest]

yeah, there is the title part and the role part and it can be quite muddied

[regal falcon]

people who have been a software dev for a non profit company and a company for profit, what are the 2 environments like?

[vapid jay]

Hello I'm here to speak

Hello!

omg

[marsh wind]

hello. This is the careers channel (see the descrition) and not just any spam/discussion channel

[vapid jay]

Hi

[marsh wind]

So if you want to discuss something or ask some question/advice and etc you are free to start with it directly. Due to the nature of the channel a simple "hello" will likely not result in any meaningful reaction

[idle jay]

Hello,

I have studiet IT on high school for 4 years, after high school i joined military. Now im 26 and im trying come back to programing, because im thinking about to change my job. I like IT and im having fun sitting at PC and creating something. i bought Udemy courses and im happy about my progress. Do you think that companies will be negative about my late career ? Im not going to apply for a job now, but after few months or years of self learning. Thanks 😊😊

[kindred hatch]

Nope self learning best Don’t Worry IT companies are good and they won’t be negative ig. And maybe it might be hard couz of self learning but also an great advantage.

[idle jay]

Thanks for reply

[twilit forum]

Self learning is decidedly not an advantage against a person with a degree, I don't think anyone considers not having a formal education advantageous.

That said definitely still go ahead with your planned career change @idle jay

[safe loom]

Any good resume templates for a developer? Or do each dev has to organise a resume in a different way?

[idle jay]

Thanks

[twilit forum]

If nothing else, being a decent programmer is huge in lots of fields. There are tonnes of busywork and tedium in many workplaces that can be automated.

A super worthwhile time investment regardless.

[safe loom]

Idk if I should look on Overleaf or Canva. Canva's a bit too complicated and Overleaf is mostly for researchers

This is also the time where I'm second-questioning everything, including my own abilities.

[gritty rivet]

"late career", ROFL, you are still a kid, go for it. If self learning doesn't get you where you need to be, maybe consider a coding bootcamp... But be careful and do your research as a lot of them are scammy

[vapid jay]

Yo guys

hello

[idle jay]

Thanks for reply. Currently I’m doing Udemy bootcam by Dr. Angela Yu. After i finish this Im going to buy real life course to get certificates and then ill see

[marsh wind]

both are fine for CV, really.

[safe loom]

Yeah I mostly need to have my profile sorted up. Although I'm not fond of giving details on my personal life. I know some resumes demand it but still...

[marsh wind]

Depends on where you are really. In EU you might need to put up the picture. In US/UK usually email phone number and city is enough I think

[shrewd mural]

Hey (i'm not english speaker) i'm currently in highschool learning a little bit of python. Honestly for my carrer choice i still don't have exact plans but i'm whiling to do something related to computer science or something like that. I just know that working in this field is pretty safe and well paid and yeah, i'm intersted in all that but i just don't know how to really get into in and how to prepare for university and all that so yeah.. hope i can get help since i might have a lot of questions

[twilit forum]

You don't have to prepare for Uni, at least not here. Lots of my classmates had never written a line of code before Uni.
If you want to that's great, but it's not a requirement.

[marsh wind]

nothing special to tell you here really: get good grades in high school, keep learning/having fun with python/coding on the side and try to get into a decent college/Uni to pursue a degree in Computer Science (or other related area: it's better to research different programs ciricullums before choosing one)

[shrewd mural]

Wow really ? I heard America at least is different but in Japan most of the time university is really easy i think, maybe just keep learning by myself and wait until i graduate ?

[marsh wind]

no it's like that in most places I think...

[shrewd mural]

I see, i'll try to get more detailed information about university and all that, i'm gonna try just to study a bit by myself, thank you very much

[sullen tendon]

wait is the server diwali based

[marsh wind]

no. See #changelog
Also this channel is not the right place for this 🙂

[crimson verge]

should i make a career in machine learning in india?

[near ocean]

that isnt a question we can answer

[sullen tendon]

oh sry anyways this theme/event is pretty cool

[dreamy quarry]

I'm a comp sci major looking to find a paid internship next year, anyone know a relatively easy language thats in high demand in the job market besides javascript?

[twilit forum]

well, python will likely be the popular answer here

[dreamy quarry]

Doesn't seem like there are many internships that only require python.

[near ocean]

Theres no job out there that requires only python

[dreamy quarry]

fair enough, was just looking for a relatively easy internship, maybe javascript is my best bet, since the skill ceiling isn't too high; I don't have the time to thoroughly learn multiple languages at the moment (besides python).

[wheat bay]

C#

C/c++

[near ocean]

Pardon?

[vapid jay]

Learn C maybe

[twilit forum]

lmao, easy and low skill ceiling = C? 😄 Damn, I must be a pleb

[amber hamlet]

@vapid jay https://www.khanacademy.org/math

i really can recommend it

[vapid jay]

I really appreciate your suggestion, my brain won't let me study that tho. I just cant, it's too boring

[amber hamlet]

you can learn at your own pace and i found having a machine doing the testing is much less frustrating than having to deal with a human teacher

[vapid jay]

I'll save the link and see if i ever open it in the future xD

[amber hamlet]

well, there are many other subjects on khan like biology, physics, economy etc

[vapid jay]

So I should spend time on studying my school subjects rather than studying programming?

[amber hamlet]

well, it's not exclusive

oh, maybe you can learn maths if you try to implement stuff in python?

maths is just a language, like any other

maybe you just need a different way to express things to understand them 🙂

[vapid jay]

Ur right, thanks 😄

[amber hamlet]

i know it helped me to write complex summations as python comprehensions understand what's going on 😄

[summer roost]

The last resume I made was based on https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/awesome-cv/dfnvtnhzhhbm - except I find the use of color on it distracting, so I disable that with
\setbool{acvSectionColorHighlight}{false}

[true harness]

why is the red only the first 3 chars lol

[near ocean]

i just threw everything in a word doc, no fancy styles or anything

[summer roost]

Yeah, I hate that. But once that's disabled, I find it really visually appealing.

[vapid jay]

I am working in sales for three years after my college and recently started programming in python. I wanna change my field completely and do master's in AI next year from Charles uni, Prague. But I find myself thinking all the time that maybe its too late and everyone is already so advanced in the field.

[marsh wind]

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/awesome-source-cv/wrdjtkkytqcw I used this one with a bit of custom modifcations.

but overall, you can find a lot of templates with overleaf and if you know a bit of latex you can also extend/modify them to your liking

[twilit forum]

If you take your degree in 3 years you will be 3 years older and have a degree in a field youre interested in.

If you dont youll still be 3 years older by then, but without the degree.

[tribal orchid]

#help-pineapple i need a help

[vapid jay]

Thank u. It was helpful actually.

[red cedar]

I am a poor student. please lend me the course on udemy

[kindred patrol]

I wanted to know is there any tool to vizualze SQl code similar to this: https://pythontutor.com/visualize.html#mode=edit

Maybe @twilit forum any idea ?

[quaint lily]

I would like to get a job in IT (preferably something to do with software) in python, when i am older (im 15) does anybody know any good jobs to get work experience for?

[twilit forum]

No clue, sorry 🙂 Cool thing though, what might make it easier to search for you is that that pretty much is a debugger!

[kindred patrol]

Yeah, would be very helpful

I like to visualize and study.

[near canyon]

not sure where to ask this, but anyone here a business or individual looking to expand and attract more customers? like im looking for sponsors for my high school robotics team for First Robotics Canda

[hearty quail]

cold-calling local businesses might not hurt

[near canyon]

what is a cold calling business?

oh, its an adjective

[hearty quail]

you, calling businesses to ask

[near canyon]

okay, ill try doing that, thanks

[safe loom]

I've been at work for a year but Idk how to put this experience forward in my resume. Especially when there's been some tasks that were less interesting than others.

I'm incapable at looking at my achievements with pride. It's horrible.

[smoky quest]

Do you have some examples?

[safe loom]

I was supposed to do more model tuning, but I ended doing up webdev for the latest months

Not sure that puts some value when i want to work in data science. Sure I know a thing or two about deploying except that's not what i was trained for.

[smoky quest]

If your goal is to do data science, then yeah, webdev isn't really related to it. Have you talked about it with your manager?

[safe loom]

I no longer work there since my job time expired, but he'd answer me the same thing as before: "we're understaffed I'm afraid there's no other solutions for now. We must focus on it."

[smoky quest]

you aren't there anymore, so it doesn't matter. But in your shoes, if the job doesn't align with your career goal and it won't improve anytime soon, it's a valid reason to look somewhere else

[safe loom]

Yeah honestly it's a trade. Right now I need to find the effort to job hunt again because last work took its toll on me. lots of uninteresting web tasks that didn't really go anywhere imo and made me second-question everything. Right now I want to be left alone for a couple of days but I don't really have the luxury for it.

[smoky quest]

yeah, It is exhausting

[humble frost]

Hi

[vapid raven]

hi

do anybody knows about PyQt5?

[near ocean]

This isnt the place to ask, try #python-discussion or #user-interfaces

[main basin]

hello guys, i'm a 15 y/o french guy looking to make some money with programming. Basically i need something where my relation with the client is not "official" (no official invoices etc) because i can't create a company at 15. I tried fiverr but it's a fucking hell to get on page 1. I know it's very shady but fuck it
i have no problems being paid in crypto or bank transfer

[twilit forum]

What is the question?

It sounds like you're putting yourself in a position to get scammed big time, I wouldn't hire a 15 yo who wants under the table payments unless I myself had some seriously questionable needs.

[dark lintel]

Hey, do you know how I can get a remote job while living in Latin America? I speak fluent English and can overlap with most american timezones

I currently work as a Jr. Data Scientist

[full mesa]

Hello! I wanted to jump in a share an opportunity again. I am looking for candidates with STRONG Python and React experience for my client. Must have experience developing products from scratch (going from 0-1) and we are looking mostly for candidates with 3-5 years professional experience. The position is fully remote (within the US only) and is offering a competitive salary with equity available. Please DM me if you are interested in learning more.

[full mesa]

And please provide either a resume or a link to your LinkedIn page

[near ocean]

Its against the server rules to advertise here
Or anywhere in the server really

[full mesa]

Ah - I posted a week or so ago and didn't get any pushback. My mistake.

[near ocean]

Theres links in the pins you could advertise in possibly or recruit from

[full mesa]

Thanks!

[vapid jay]

can someone program a simple script for me? pv please

[dreamy shale]

Hii is cybersecurity a better career than full. Stack developer or i can be both

[rich pelican]

How long do you want to be in school?

[smoky quest]

The breadth and scope of both is pretty large and makes it difficult to do both at the same time effectively. Companies will rarely look for people doing both part time and would end up looking for either role but not someone doing both.

[dreamy shale]

Okay i want to learn java next also i have taken cybersecurity as a specialization which is better as a career

[smoky quest]

between what and what? Or is it a statement?

[dreamy shale]

Between a software developer and cybersecurity engineer

[smoky quest]

They are both great career paths.
That's a personal preference, but I tend to prefer software developer

[dry sapphire]

what do you consider "better"?

[dreamy shale]

I like cybersecurity and always thought could be good in that but some say software developer is face of tomorrow like things@smoky quest

[dreamy shale]

Better in scope in future better in pay

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by "face of tomorrow" ?

[dry sapphire]

what is "better in scope"? do you want to be more specialised or not?

[dreamy shale]

Like a high demand career also the competition is pretty high there

[dreamy shale]

Which i can get good jobs I don't want to shift my career if I don't get jobs

[smoky quest]

They are both in high demand. But there are still way more software dev needs than cybersecurity. So you would find more job posting for software dev

[dry sapphire]

the current market is really hot, so if you are reasonably competent, you won't be asking "can I get a job", but rather "which job should I take"

cybersecurity is more specialised, but in the right place and time it can be very lucrative, too

[smoky quest]

Recruiters are contacting engineers almost every day

[dreamy shale]

I can get government jobs with it too but not with software developer

[smoky quest]

government jobs aren't high pay

[dreamy shale]

My college will teach me both to a good extent

So i would basically do cybersecurity first then isn't it @smoky quest @dry sapphire

[smoky quest]

either way is fine.
Looks around your local job market, which one you enjoy the most, how you want to build your career.

[dry sapphire]

you know what's really important? fulfilment. if you're making enough money to support yourself and then some, the difference will come from how happy you are doing what you do.

[summer roost]

cybersecurity can pay a lot more than other types of software engineer, or a lot less. It depends on the type of work you're doing, what skills exactly you have, and whether those skills are in demand in your region.

but really, the skills for both are pretty similar, at the entry level. Go to uni, try both types of things, figure out what you enjoy more, try to get a job doing it.

[hearty quail]

from a ng perspective this is a bit misleading IMO

[dreamy shale]

Okay thank you all

[dry sapphire]

what is ng? new graduate?

[hearty quail]

it seems like the min bar for a lot of jobs are going higher and higher, and the job hunt seems to be rough for juniors with no exp

[dreamy shale]

This is true though

[dry sapphire]

possibly. I wouldn't know, but what I understand from the fresh graduates in my country is that the good ones are extremely in demand

generally securing jobs quite a while before they graduate

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't say the bar is any higher.
More like it has been rough finding senior engineers, which you need prior to onboarding more new grads

[hearty quail]

good graduates are always in demand tho (speaking from US perspective, at the very least).

[dry sapphire]

which is why I specified "reasonably competent" 😉

[hearty quail]

IDK my friends have been applying to traditionally behaviorial-only companies and are being asked LC questions

[dry sapphire]

I firmly believe anything above Leetcode easy-medium as an initial screen is bad hiring practice

[hearty quail]

they are definitely competent in programming but just haven't prioritized solving LC, which shouldn't necessarily be a requirement for jobs

[summer roost]

anecdotally, I know a recent grad in the US - class of 2021 - who's already at the 6 figure level.

[hearty quail]

fairly common in HCOL/MCOL

[summer roost]

yep.

[smoky quest]

yeah we do that across all geography for all new grads

entry level*

[dreamy shale]

Where do you live

[summer roost]

when I got my first job out of college, it was 13 years ago and I made a bit over $80k - so entry level jobs in the $100k range sounds totally reasonable for inflation.

[smoky quest]

I have never heard about behavioral only companies in the US, at least not in a good light

[dry sapphire]

🇸🇬

[dreamy shale]

Great

[hearty quail]

well head out to the midwest and you'll find tons of corps looking to fill headcount

[dreamy shale]

So anyone can learn soft dev after cybersecurity isn't it

[smoky quest]

I already have to pass out on many candidates who can't write a simple factorial type of question. I can't imagine going with just behavior

[summer roost]

a lot of jobs ask algorithms question because they're a common baseline by which skills can be compared across candidates. Virtually everyone learns algorithms in school. Algorithms questions aren't perfect, but they're better than a lot of other options.

[hearty quail]

weirdly enough i have way less success getting interviews at these companies. probably because i'm mainly a Go dev with a general skillset rather than having the specific Java/Spring knowledge they try to screen for

[dry sapphire]

I interviewed somewhere recently and they asked me Fizzbuzz

[smoky quest]

Typically, you have a degree like BS or MS in computer science/engineering which enables you to specialize in anything. So depends on your school/degree

[dry sapphire]

and separately, they asked me a pretty difficult network security question, and at the end I asked "why was the network question so hard and the coding question so easy"

[hearty quail]

yeah i somewhat agree but i also think that you generally need to prepare for LC problems. also I think that anything beyond fizzbuzz/two sum level shouldn't be a req for run-of-the-mill new grads

[dry sapphire]

and they literally told me "most candidates can't solve that (easily)" 😴

[dreamy shale]

Yes my university is offering A computer science engineer Degree with specialization in cybersecurity

[smoky quest]

wow.
That's a teachable moment though. Every candidate has a different background and strengths/weaknesses

[hearty quail]

wait is this for mid-level lol

[summer roost]

they're the same thing with a focus in different areas. Software engineering is figuring out how to build and scale increasingly complex systems to meet business needs. Cybersecurity is about how to break any part of those systems. Software engineers tend to know a lot of topics compared to security experts, but security experts tend to know a smaller number of topics in much greater detail.

[dry sapphire]

multiple levels I think?

[hearty quail]

IDK I'm glad I can be surrounded by super talented engineers at a tech co, but i also think that some devs just aren't good at algorithms and they don't need to be

[dry sapphire]

wasn't really intending on joining tbh, just felt like interviewing for experience

[dreamy shale]

Great explanation thanks I'm thinking to learn security expert as a hobby also i like it much more

[dry sapphire]

depends on what you mean by "algorithm", right? like in the very general sense it's really just a series of operations to apply on some input which is a big part of what using code to solve business problems is

but, yes, you don't have to be an expert @ simulated annealing to be a great SWE (man 20 second slowmode is horrific)

[hearty quail]

i guess on-demand synthesis of code (some people jsut need more time)

[dry sapphire]

fair enough? for many people it's hard to perform on demand (like right now kind of on demand)

[summer roost]

Most companies will ask you to work out some sort of algorithms problem in the interview. They don't necessarily care if you can solve it - it's not usually intended as a puzzle, it's intended to see how you work through a small problem, realize your own mistakes, and iterate on your solution. If you solve it, great. If you write something and realize it's wrong, great - explain your thought process, how you were hoping to solve it, and why you realized that won't work. They'll probably steer you in the right direction, and not hold it against you.

[hearty quail]

yeah exactly, which puts them at a disadvantage even if they are qualified.

[dry sapphire]

but I wouldn't say that's being "good at algorithms"? more like...good at algorithmic interviews

[dry sapphire]

in general I smash technical interviews but there was one a while back where I totally confused myself and couldn't solve a mega simple problem

[hearty quail]

oh taht's nice to know. I haven't interviewed at non-tech companies in a while, so i'm not super familiar on the standard of actually solving the question at some places

[dry sapphire]

like "would take me 3 minutes on a good day" simple, but I spent at least 30 min

[hearty quail]

yeah it takes practice IMO, even for stuff like fizzbuzz

[dry sapphire]

but this is generally what I've experienced too

[summer roost]

the problem is that the company has to make a determination of whether you're qualified or not somehow. They're hiring you to write code, so they want to see you write some code.

[dry sapphire]

I have been through interviews that involve pair programming through a simple business-related problem (so not one of those Leetcode algorithms)

[hearty quail]

i'm obviously too green to have valuable stance but what about the argument that system design is more relevant

[dry sapphire]

which, in particular, involve justifying design choices and explaining your thought process from the start, and I found those to be much better experiences

[smoky quest]

New grads have no clue about system design

[dry sapphire]

design is extremely important, but so is the ability to implement stuff. one doesn't replace the other, and in general my interviews test both (separately)

[summer roost]

the worst interviews I've ever conducted are ones where the candidate comes up with a wrong solution, and will not let me correct them as I try to offer feedback. In addition to reflecting really poorly on them, it's tough to recover and move onto something else when they get stuck on something and won't accept help.

[summer roost]

it is, but juniors can't do it.

[dry sapphire]

I've never had that kind of interview

[hearty quail]

lol believe it or not it comes up (definitely way lower standards tho)

[dry sapphire]

maybe I should thank recruiters for doing the initial screen well 🙂

I actually really like design interviews because they tend to be closer to the practical problems the business is solving

[hearty quail]

i mean even if you were wrong that shows a lack of effective communication ability

[summer roost]

If the interviewer is wrong, you should probably just roll with it

correcting them isn't likely to be helpful, heh

[smoky quest]

I still think it would be bad practice for new grads. They may have never encountered things like cache or message queues or other basic building blocks.

But a lot of engineers are also asked to go interview without preparation or training. This can lead to some unfortunate outcomes

[dry sapphire]

if an interviewer is wrong about something they should be right about (like something within their area of expertise), I would see that as quite a big red flag

[summer roost]

I do agree with that.

[smoky quest]

I did once and he was basically offering the job on the spot by the end

[hearty quail]

usually it's pretty big-picture DB/system concepts like caching, CAP theorem, database sharding, a bit of STAR schema

and it's basically CRUD stuff, no streaming data or real-time pub/sub

[summer roost]

I start asking system design questions once someone has maybe 5 years of experience. Before they can have informed opinions on database schemas, they need to have used different types of schemas for representing similar data. Before they can have informed opinions on SQL vs NoSQL, they need to have used both. Before they can have informed ideas of where to apply caching, or message queueing, they need to have used systems that use them. Etc.

[dry sapphire]

5 seems a bit much...doesn't it

[hearty quail]

i mean speaking from the other end i only made it thru bc i've been skimming DDIA. sys design rounds as a new grad kinda suck because like you said we usually don't have significant practical experience with the tooling/problem space yet

[buoyant seal]

Different level of responsibilities... Can introduce system design much earlier

[summer roost]

maybe a bit less - 3? But not at the just out of school level, at least.

[smoky quest]

not really.
Prior to that, it would be unlikely for you to lead a project/effort. Most of the design would be handed out to you.
(obviously, there are exceptions)

[dry sapphire]

hm that hasn't really been my experience

[buoyant seal]

Start-ups are ones of them. I have just one year and I was already responsible to lead project from the start.

Learning system design was quite useful to do it right

[smoky quest]

So you were designing whole architecture across multiple services by yourself at 1-2 years out of school?

[summer roost]

sometimes design experience comes from seeing the bad stuff someone else wrote, trying to fix it, and then figuring out the bad stuff about your fix. There aren't usually right answers, just tradeoffs, and you need to have worked with a lot of systems before you start getting an intuitive understanding of the tradeoffs.

[hearty quail]

SWE 2 (L4) promo requirements at various companies seem to require some semblance of architecture/sys design ability, and the ability to own a portion of the codebase from what i've seen (that's usually about 2 YOE)

[smoky quest]

That's fair and it fits in the exceptions for me :p
Anything goes in startups, whether it's a good thing or not

[buoyant seal]

Yes 🤣

[summer roost]

smaller staff means more responsibilities per person, and faster learning as a result.

[dry sapphire]

3 years in, that's basically what I'm doing now (since June-ish)

[smoky quest]

That's probably when I would start stretching someone in that area. So yeah

(the dropbox engineering career framework is also pretty nice in how things go too)

[summer roost]

I think you need to have worked with a bad design before you can really explain why a good design is good.

and I think that applies at every level - from how you design classes, to how you organize your functions, to how you architect larger systems.

[smoky quest]

designs can change without necessarily being bad. Requirements will change, technologies will change, scale will change.
Being familiar with them also doesn't happen overnight and no one will successfully taking on a project with multiple new concepts at once

Especially around how to get it done. Doing the design itself is sizeable, but so is all the process around to document it, get the buy in, think about migrations... And that require a lot of mentorship from senior folks

[summer roost]

well, take "bad" with a grain of salt in what I said, then. You need to have worked with a system that can't meet the business needs and understand why not before you can start to think about how to design one that will.

but yes, it's also very helpful to remember that the existing systems were also built by reasonably competent engineers who were trying to do good work

[hearty quail]

sorry my react wasn't meant to criticize

[summer roost]

not at all - I'm enjoying the discussion.

[dry sapphire]

not in all cases 😔

[hearty quail]

i was more referring to the pain of working with an inadequate architecture (at least temporary pain for me kek)

[smoky quest]

it sounded like a good idea at the time

[summer roost]

almost always. People usually don't turn in crappy work on purpose.

[dry sapphire]

on purpose in the sense that they were trying to make something bad? then I agree. but just as there are good engineers, there are also bad ones, and sometimes you work with systems designed and implemented by the latter. that's literally the codebase I'm working on now.

[summer roost]

true. incompetence is the reason for some bad designs, but failure to design in flexibility to adapt to changing business needs is the reason for many more. Or designing in too much flexibility. Or flexibility in the wrong places.

there's a lot more ways to get things wrong than right, and every choice has tradeoffs. For everything that your design makes easier, there will be other things that it makes harder.

[smoky quest]

business also suffers eventually from bad teams
But one should always give the benefit of the doubt, at least at the beginning

[hearty quail]

wouldn't crippling long-term tech debt as a result of incompetence be more of an organizational problem than an individual problem? (e.g. the design process is inadequate)

[smoky quest]

I have seen either way. There are prioritizations, how to remediate...

[summer roost]

long-term tech debt doesn't tend to come from an inadequate design process, but an unwillingness to prioritize technical improvements that will pay off in the future over immediate business goals

[hearty quail]

but isn't that itself part of larger organizational issues, where there is so little immediate reward for addressing tech debt that managers are disincentivized from prioritizing it?

[summer roost]

the trick is, everyone has blinders on. The product team doesn't know what the tech debt is costing them, or how much it's slowing down development of new features - they only see the customers they are failing to capture, and the features that would capture them. The developers have their heads in the code, and have to deal with the tech debt every day, but don't have much insight into what sales are being made, or what features users need.

The companies that do the best job of managing tech debt are the ones where there's the most give and take between those teams, and where everyone sees themselves as working together towards a common goal.

Each side trying to explain their perspective to the other.

[dry sapphire]

that's part of it. we have a ton of tech cards that deal with refactoring/architecture improvements, and a feature we would really like to get out by end November.

that feature is an extension of a component that would really benefit from said refactoring.

organisationally, a good relationship between the tech team and the BAs/POs means that the latter understand that it takes time to build good things, and it also takes time to maintain the things we already have, even if there're not many tangible benefits from doing so (in the short run, usually)

[dry sapphire]

but on an individual level - as a developer who knows they're working with a suboptimal codebase, you need to make the choices that avert sinking further into technical debt

[summer roost]

also true. A crunch culture where you're always delivering things as fast as possible absolutely leads to terrible tech debt.

[dry sapphire]

and also in relation to this...I think that the stronger the developer, the less difference between "time taken to do this thing badly" and "time taken to do this thing well"

e.g. test-driven development - if you don't write tests, how do you know you're done (@ lower levels of complexity)? using the proper abstractions for domain modelling - if you do it right, writing the original implementation, and subsequently refactoring, is just so much easier.

[summer roost]

It can be helpful for coders to try to explain things to the product owners. "That feature will probably take us around 3 weeks, because it's a lot of work to update $COMPONENT_X. We have an idea for a better way to structure $COMPONENT_X that will make this sort of change only take a day or to in the future, but that work would take us more like 6 weeks."

[dry sapphire]

yeah. one thing I'm thankful for is that we (tech team) have a good relationship with the business people

they trust our estimates are made in good faith, and when (strategic) business needs change, we don't go after the messenger

[summer roost]

There are companies where the relationship between business people and developers is almost adversarial, and I have no idea how they manage to ever get any work done.

[dry sapphire]

I hope I never land in one of those

[smoky quest]

the larger the company, the more probable to find an adversarial relationship somewhere

[summer roost]

vaguely related to this - developers have different skills. I know a guy who can crank out code incredibly quickly, but no one but him can read it. He's wasted on a team that does a lot of maintenance, but crazy effective at doing proof of concepts to see whether an idea can be made to work at all.

(my go-to theory is that he can just hold a few more pieces of local state in his head than the average person)

[dry sapphire]

defo extremely valuable in the right situation. but yes, that is true; I really don't like devops stuff, so I don't focus on learning much more than the basics (unless I have to)

but there's this guy who is some sort of devops wizard 🙂 and I love having my code reviewed by him because he is extremely meticulous

which is very important because it deals with a lot of calculations and dates etc. where off-by-one errors can creep in

[buoyant seal]

I love DevOps. IMO it is the ultimate job of automatizations 😉 of time saving in testings. Of saving you from remembering how to deploy infrastructure

[dry sapphire]

I love having good devops, I just hate setting it up

it's...simply not fun for me 😕

[oblique furnace]

Idk if I should ask this here but to get internships offers ..should I focus more on building discord bots with python etc (my current interest) or focus more on website development with django and as well as building up my linked in profile?

I am starting my college UG next month so I am not sure how to go about it.

[buoyant seal]

discord bot aren't sounding like reliable way for proffit. especially considering that discord.py got deprecated

[oblique furnace]

Dw I am learning hikari-lightbulb atm

But yea you are right about the "reliable way of profit" .. I am not sure if it's even worth it to include in linked in profile

[pulsar bay]

on the other hand, working on stuff you're interested in is a great way to maintain motivation. Also, it's likely you'll still develop your software skills working on that stuff. Obviously it won't be as directly applicable, but nowhere near useless.

[buoyant seal]

I think it is worthy to include to cv anyway. People like people which are enthusiastic about stuff they do (when they participate a bit in OSS). It shows as a good hobby
at least if u a proud of the code there to show recruiters

[oblique furnace]

I see.. so Ig I will continue the development on discord bots

[buoyant seal]

but if you plan to dive into more web dev for job, relevant experience directly tied to web dev will be more handly obviously.
discord is web devish too though. but having exp with backend framework would be another story

[oblique furnace]

true but I think Encabulator is also right because currently I learned basics on sql for my discord bot which will come handy in backend of web development later

[pulsar bay]

If you have the time, I feel it's probably a good idea to also try out stuff that's more directly applicable. Doesn't have to be one or the other 100%

[buoyant seal]

yeah, basically discord bot coding is directly heping to web dev carrier, just without the framework attachments. I think it is almost perfect

too much attachments to frameworks aren't really good anyway. who knows what you will choose later, flask, django or fastapi
there is plenty of room to learn all the stuff which is general to software engineer and to language

[oblique furnace]

hmm probably django but who knows xd

[oblique furnace]

yea I can do that ig.. thanks for the help Darkwind and Encabulator

[marsh wind]

I can confirm that it's hard to work in env when business/sales/execs are not on same page with dev team. I wouldn't call our relationship adversarial. But I might call our CEO a jerk 😂

[buoyant seal]

i like how our second project started. I was planning it from the beginning and eliminated any disagreements with business, while still leaving everything smooth at tech side. Everything is possible to implement perfectly and in a short time. Just a matter of skill to perfect it.

business people highly wishes to return to first project later though. Urgh. That's a mess for sure. The first project was planned without cooperation of devs 😦 It is terrible in terms of hardships for implementation. Which leads to the first project impossibility to earn anything. I could implement half of the first project, but what's the point if it will be waste of a lot of time for development and will be costing high (or evel ultra high) maintenance cost in addition with bringing really low value in exchange for investments, and different restrictions make almost impossible to create quality product?
I could implement first project anyway though, it is still profitable to my implementing skills.... but I am just pitying the boss, time and his money to spend on it.

[grave wadi]

Hi, I have an idea to build a forum site which will be operable but I have some questions
would it be good for resumé?

[vast shoal]

Refrain from typing in all caps and spamming punctuation.

Other people misbehaving does not give you the right to be disrespectful and rude to other users.

This channel is for discussion of Python careers and the world of work, and in general, this server for learning and discussing Python the programming language. If you want to post random memes and pranks, do so elsewhere.

[grave wadi]

??

[vast shoal]

I'd say it definitely wouldn't hurt. It's a non-trivial webdev project.

[grave wadi]

oh alright thanks @vast shoal

what if I set it up and people start using it, wouldn't that feel weird to put in a resumé

[twilit forum]

No, actually administrating a site would be great on a resume

[vast shoal]

If you can demonstrate that you've built something other people want to use and you're able to manage it properly, that's even better, yes.

[grave wadi]

oh great to hear
now my mind's at rest

thanks @vast shoal @twilit forum you guys are life savers

[neon holly]

hey, i aspire to be a self taught programmer what knowlege should i have.

i like backend

[exotic trench]

How can I become a freelance developer? Sites like fiverr seem over crowded and I don't expect to find much work on this platform so what should I do and how can I evaluate my worth?

[gritty rivet]

http://roadmap.sh/backend
http://roadmap.sh/python

[gritty rivet]

UpWork seems the most popular overall. Search this channel for previous discussions with people who make their living on there

[oblique furnace]

I wanted to ask if I want to study abroad (USA/Australia) then can I include project works like discord bot/website in my portfolio or a project work should be something more advanced ?

[twilit forum]

I think you should include your github, or whatever you use as repo for your version control. You can curate it a bit and make projects you don't want to showcase private.

[quaint lily]

So i got u? Cool

[oblique furnace]

Thnx but is it true that research paper is important to get admission into universities out there in masters ?

My main focus is on gre , projects and work experience instead of research paper

[twilit forum]

I can't imagine any Uni requiring research papers as admission.

Are you talking about an exchange year?

[oblique furnace]

No like doing masters in computer science

[twilit forum]

I see what you mean. That's not how it works here in Sweden, but can't say for the U.S or Aus.

[oblique furnace]

Oh hmm

[twilit forum]

AFAIK it's mostly grades here, but honestly you can ask whatever University you're thinking of for details regarding their application process, that way you'll get the most accurate results. Instead of some rando living on a different continent making wild guesses like now 😄

[oblique furnace]

👍

[swift veldt]

that might be something more oriented towards asking #python-discussion or #internals-and-peps

this channel is geared towards asking questions about the tech industry, the job market and one's career plan(s).

[vapid jay]

Oh shoot I keep ending up here for some reason My bad