career-advice

[toxic venture]

@smoky quest hmm tbf they did say I would have to move to the location but I was getting desperate so I decided to take that job so it's been my personal issue and yeah you're right that job hopping does sound like a red flag

@gritty rivet that's what I'm searching for now so hopefully the next one is something that will be good for the future!

Btw I'm not one to run away from responsibility because during college I had a job which I stuck to all 4 years so it was a great learning experience!

It's just this is something I want to do for a long time and it would be great to be somewhere where I can be...happy? Lol

[hidden sluice]

Hi, I was wondering how I could get a job using python?

For some background, I basically know nothing about this language and I've definitely given it a shot at one point or another. But I haven't really been able to understand or use the language cause I was basically just trying to memorize every command and what it does. Basically I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm 18 on my out of highschool and I really want to know if theres a chance I can get a career out of python? Or at least how to go about learning it?

[smoky quest]

are you going to college?

[hidden sluice]

I have some college credits and free money but idk if i want to yet

[smoky quest]

that's the normal route for a job in CS

[hidden sluice]

isn't there a case where i can get a career without a college diploma

[smoky quest]

It's like doing your career in extra hardcore mode

[hidden sluice]

lmao

[true harness]

college grads earn more on average also

[smoky quest]

And given the question you are asking, I would say that nope for you

there is no shortcut

[hidden sluice]

Well yes considering i have no clue what to do. But would a certificate of some sort from an online course help at all or is that just a waste of time and money

[smoky quest]

If you could have an equivalent career without a degree and having to go to college, don't you think people would already do that?

[hidden sluice]

True, well you know wasn't really sure. Was just wondering if it was a possibility. Is there any career that I should be focusing on, cause like as I said idk anything about this field not really at least. Is there any paths of coding I should avoid?

[smoky quest]

I would say to avoid gamedev considering the working environment

[true harness]

have you done anything programming related? you really have no idea what you're interested in?

[smoky quest]

but your degree is for computer science, not a specific job. You would be trained to take on very different challenges

[hidden sluice]

Ive done some very minor coding like trying to make some games using unity and C# and i made a text adventure type thing at one point using C# and python. But like I don't know what I want to go into, I really dont understand what there is to choose from? I mean machine learning seems pretty awesome. But other then that I have no clue

[hidden sluice]

You see, I didn't know that I thought like you had to specialize in a certain degree for certain jobs I wouldn't think that a computer science degree is all you need. Is it?

[smoky quest]

You may want to reach out to a career counselor or look at more information about degrees on google.

But yeah, that's all you would need.

[hidden sluice]

Alright will do, thank you

[autumn swift]

How many open source projects have you built from source?

Honestly as someone who works with Python... the critical skills are not so much good with Python unless it's very heavy software development.

Which is very rare in the Python career space. Not that python is bad.

Becoming a good Unix command line user, being capable with build tools and getting stuff done with any programming language goes a looong way.

If you can get your hands dirty with anything and succeed at it, you're extremely, extremely close to being employable.

Don't skip a degree unless your personal circumstances are very nasty.

Ultimately I think passing my classes was easier than making open source software in the long run, minus the math.

[vapid jay]

good morning

[hidden sluice]

I haven't really created much I'm planning on doing so when my school and work don't impede as much. Im severely under experienced and need to learn the field more.

So, basically what I need to do is, try to build as much as I can with code? Is that the best way? What should I try to build? something that will give me some experience on how a job in the field would work? well there are many different circumstances aren't there so it would kinda be hard to say what to build would it?

[autumn swift]

Not created, how many have you compiled.

[hidden sluice]

If a text based adventure game and a calculator count, then 2.😆

[true harness]

you're in the us?

[hidden sluice]

yes

[vapid jay]

j

GG

[true harness]

you're a senior then?

[hidden sluice]

yes

[true harness]

talk to your counselor about college and stuff, they know your situation much better than we do

[autumn swift]

Find projects on GitHub and compile them, and go to college.

[vapid jay]

😂😂👌

[true harness]

<@&831776746206265384>

[hidden sluice]

Shit, I kinda forgot i had a counselor, Ill email her now.

Thanks Urthor ill go do that too!

[dapper depot]

@vapid jay please don't spam

[primal sapphire]

hi people

besides GoF, Design Patterns in Python and Applications any recommendations?

[smoky quest]

depends for what?

[primal sapphire]

to be a better programmer

[true harness]

head first design patterns. for python specifically there's fluent python

[autumn swift]

I don't think design patterns make you a better programmer. Better OO developer which is a different thing.

[vapid jay]

I don't know too much about embedded systems but I don't know that embedded engineers need to learn tons of algorithms and data structures

in dutch

[primal sapphire]

what would you recommend to be a better programmer, or are you referring to the semantic difference between dev and programmer?

so, context, I am looking for jobs and this design pattern thing keeps coming up in interviews I consider myself a good programmer, but I think I am lacking a lot of the terminology and classic education, at least thats what it looks like

[vapid jay]

You should be able to work with different desing patters to be a good programmer, also I believe that the fact that you are a better programmer than other people is how you use your abilities to applied in different situations, the fact how you use your knowledge

[primal sapphire]

yeah, from what i've read, some design patterns are intuitive and some are really counter intuitive, you really go out of your way to implement them, but they provide things that are valued for maintainability

is it worth it, i guess depends on the project's expected lifespan?\

[autumn swift]

No not really referring to the semantic difference.

If you want to become a better programmer you need to balance building and delivering projects vs more "academic" work. Like learning functional programming or data structures or bitwise logical conjunctions, vs memorising OO patterns.

OO patterns are niche work for OO development, which is very specific and not as common as you'd think in Python.

[primal sapphire]

yeah, I think I am very in the building and delivering side of the balance, but interviews are judged by quick answers to "mention which design patterns would apply in x situation" kinda question

[autumn swift]

Mostly those are interviews for positions that are design pattern related like front end?

[primal sapphire]

yeah... odd, its for backend python dev roles

[autumn swift]

Most interviews ask either extremely basic OO questions or data structures I have found.

It could be a backend heavily OO role yeah, but you can skim OO patterns. I wouldn't call it becoming a better coder but sure study for your interview.

[primal sapphire]

i'll do that yeah, to get through the gate keeping part, now... how would you say it's a good way to become a better programmer / dev?

besides the build/deliver advice (which I can appreciate)

[autumn swift]

Leetcode, SICP, Composing Programs, learning a different language like Haskell.

[primal sapphire]

interesting!, why Haskell, because of functional programming? wouldnt that make me less "pythonic"? honest questions

[autumn swift]

Pythonic is more about following pep8

[primal sapphire]

id say pythonic its more about using list comprehension where they apply or not using for x in range(list) and calling list[x]

[true harness]

pep8 is definitely part of it, but it's more about writing code that uses python idioms and not C or java idioms

[autumn swift]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[smoky quest]

OO design is pretty much everywhere and a must have skill once you get to >= senior level. Even if you get into functional programming, you will notice the patterns are pretty close, just with a different name
On the technical side:

• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1736417916
• https://www.manning.com/books/microservices-patterns
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CMF2CQF/ - since you mentioned interviews
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0136524036/
• https://dataintensive.net/
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0134032802/

Note that this list is rather broad than narrow and targeting mid+ level and backend-ish

[woeful spruce]

is functional programming basically just writing everything in functions as opposed to classes?

[vast shoal]

No, functional programming is a completely different paradigm. It's hard to summarize easily, but in a pure functional language (of which there are some), or in a pure functional program, the entire program is a single statement. This sounds weird if you've never encountered it before, but it's possible and totally viable, and you can solve all the same problems as you can with a "regular" (i. e. imperative) program, you just need to think differently about a lot of common problems. The best way to understand is to learn a functional language. Haskell is a language that lends itself to this type of programming, and this is a good tutorial if you want to try it: http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters

[autumn swift]

That's procedural programming.

Functional uses a bunch of different tools, such as basically never, ever using global variables or global state.

This has a few neat benefits involved, one of which is the code is perfectly concurrent, another is that it's extremely quick because it doesn't exercise the branch predictor much.

The cost is that the code doesn't look like imperative code at all, it shifts a lot of burden to the programmer's brain and requires some book learning. However, because functional programming is basically simplified programming using methods only, if you practice using it it's very widely applicable.

[smoky quest]

imperative code has nothing to do with the use of global variables or states.

also, we are sort of straying a bit far off #career-advice

[undone moth]

Can we use numpy for our own purpose use or is it worth only for large datas so only companies use it effectively

[undone moth]

I mean what are some applications of numpy for personal use or mini projects

Is it worth studying numpy if I don't have to work under some companies

[vast shoal]

Anything that requires dealing with matrices, for example

[undone moth]

I wanna do some development stuff

[vast shoal]

There are definitely non-commercial or smaller projects where you can benefit from using numpy. Is it worth studying? Depends on if those kinds of projects are what you want to do.

[undone moth]

Ok

[viscid pumice]

Lol

[exotic trench]

How to get job?

[near ocean]

Build cv, populate with projects, apply to job postings

[buoyant seal]

• Self study new hard(those ones for starters) and soft skills / Apply at pet (+later job) projects

[urban elk]

wut all I can do with python which can serve as a career option ?

[near ocean]

Literally anything, also you could read the chat above and get an idea

[tiny zephyr]

hey

im new to the server

also new to python

can anyone help me get started?

[proud sedge]

!resource

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[hollow lynx]

so i’m 18, i want to go into data science and i’ll be starting uni next year.
i got accepted for Uni of Liverpool ( the main one which is a top uni ) for computer science.

then i also got accepted for Manchester Metropolitan University ( not as good as Uni Of Liverpool ) for AI & Data Science.

i chose Manchester Met because of the course and so that i could go into AI & data science straight away but now im doubting it since Uni of liverpool is a TOP uni and I COULD still go into data science with Computer science in 2nd/3rd year.. what should i do?

edit - i am tempted more towards Manchester met, but yeah i just don’t know anymore

[near ocean]

you should go to liverpool no doubt, its a Russell group uni and will open many doors just through that
assuming you can graduate with a decent grade

[hollow lynx]

oh, are you saying that because it’s ‘ Uni of liverpool ‘?

[near ocean]

well yea, its a top university and recruiters are always throwing themselves at these unis

[hollow lynx]

thing is i just don’t feel like going there because of the course, CS seems too ‘generic‘? wouldn’t having a degree in ‘AI & DS’ be more beneficial now?

[near ocean]

Its a bachelor, theyre not supposed to or can be too specialised
The most common pathway i've seen for DS is a comp sci bsc and then postgrad degrees into DS/AI

i have friends that did DS masters coming from all sorts of backgrounds, CS, marketing, economics, finance, etc

[hollow lynx]

ah okay, thank you

[carmine summit]

Any new devs feel like they're on a team of rockstars and they are pushing at a rate of 1-50 of their fellow devs?

[near ocean]

not really but im a department of 1 so i wouldnt know

[daring anvil]

Basically I go in person to the office

[vapid jay]

Nice

But if you get good paid and you buy a sick setup at home, are you allowed to develop from home as a programmer?

I've seen a few programmers on tiktok showing off their setups and they work from home

[daring anvil]

Not at this company, they want me in person. But iirc 70% of programming jobs now are remote.

I couldn't be too picky about my first company lol

[vapid jay]

Right, where do you live?

[near ocean]

i dont recommend doing remote work if youre a new dev
being in the office right next to your senior will help you more than you think

[vapid jay]

Oh ^ Will keep in mind for the future 😄

[near ocean]

ofc this isnt always possible, but you should try to be in the office as much as you can, assuming your seniors are also there
if you go to the office and youre alone theres no point

[daring anvil]

In my case my senior is mostly phone calls to my dad lmao

He has been in the industry for 20+ years now

[near ocean]

then you should be around him as much as you can

[daring anvil]

Yeah, I ask him alot of questions and he gives me SOLID advice.

[vapid jay]

Lol

[daring anvil]

I'm sorry for that joke. Lmao

Anyways I gotta go now

[vapid jay]

Oh no worries, alright have a good one bro, good luck with your project for that company 😄

[vast shoal]

What do you want to know?

[vapid jay]

@vast shoal hi, btw how old were u?

[vast shoal]

33

[vapid jay]

Oh my, that's good then you probably know the answers to my question lmao

[vast shoal]

Perhaps

[vapid jay]

Is it possible to be a python programmer in Sweden? Like, I go to el & energi linjen in gymnasiet and we learn basic python, is it possible to get a programming job with decent python skill here?

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I was a professional Python dev before.

[vapid jay]

Oh nice! Did you go to högskola?

[vast shoal]

Python is big in general, pretty sure there are lots of places that use it, especially in data science.

I went to uni

[vapid jay]

uni? isn't that the same thing?

[vast shoal]

I guess? I don't know if you meant something specific

I mean, there are post-gymnasium schools that aren't universities

[vapid jay]

Ok nvm, so if I learn python and after I'm done with my gymnasium I could live with the income as a python programmer here in Sweden?

[vast shoal]

That might be harder, I'd recommend you at least get a kandidatexamen in CS or something similar

[vapid jay]

what is CS?

[vast shoal]

Computer science - datavetenskap

Maybe you could get by with some other technical degree as well, but CS is best if you want to work as a developer, I think.

[vapid jay]

jaha ok, but I already struggle in the gymnasium 😄 So what I have to do is to read comvux after my gymnasium so i can get into högskola within data sciense and try my best to get the kandidatexamen?

[vast shoal]

Getting a job without a degree is not impossible, but it's difficult and stressful. It's much easier to go to uni.

Yeah, go to komvux and take högskoleprovet.

[vapid jay]

Ah man I'm going to fail XD

[vast shoal]

You just need to learn studieteknik

[vapid jay]

you can have a few tries in högskolaprovet if u fail right?

[vast shoal]

I think you can take it as many times as you like.

But it's only given two times a year.

And it's 450 kr per attempt.

[vapid jay]

Oh ok Good, so I'm 17 now, i'll be 18 when i go to tvåan, 19 in trean, and then probably 21 when im in högskola, and then +3 years so 24 if i get the kandidatexamen, wait, if i go to högskola and i can't get the kandidatexamen what happens then?

[vast shoal]

Why wouldn't you? Swedish uni is very forgiving. You can just retake stuff until you pass. You lose CSN if you don't pass enough courses, but if you live at home that's not that big of a problem, assuming your parents are cool with it.

But passing isn't that hard.

A kandidat is pretty easy too, not too much theory.

[vapid jay]

I already failed my first year in gymnasium in el och energi linjen so i had to gå om one year, and yet it's still difficult, im scared i wont have a career in the future

[vast shoal]

Maybe you should try studying the subjects you have trouble with online as well as in school. Maybe your teachers are just bad.

There are really good resources online for a lot of subjects that are explained poorly in school from my experience.

[vapid jay]

No idk tbh, I have ADHD I'm just not good with school and studying, I like to do stuff that I find a interest in, never had the motivation to it

[vast shoal]

Ah, ok, do you have medication for that?

[vapid jay]

No I dont take medication, it isn't severe. Just some concentration issues

Anyways, thanks for the help really! I appreciate it a lot u wont even understand! At least I have a goal now, to get into CS högskola and get the kandidatexamen

Btw, what högskola for CS would you recommend to go? there are multiple ones

[vast shoal]

I have a friend with ADHD who never took medication because it didn't seem severe, but when she started she said it made a huge difference that she couldn't have imagined.

And it's clearly causing you problems since you have trouble in school.

You should at least try it, or talk to a doctor/psychiatrist about it.

[vast shoal]

I went to UmU because that's where I grew up, so I can't really speak much about other schools. KTH is supposed to be good, of course. I think Luleå Tekniska Högskola is also good, and there are good schools in Göteborg, Malmö and Lund that I can't remember the names of right now.

[vapid jay]

Right, I live in Göteborg and my dad want's me to go do Chalmers högskola, but idk if its good for programming

[vast shoal]

Chalmers, right, that's the one I was thinking of. I've heard good things about it, yeah.

It'll probably look good on your CV as well.

Sorry, I gotta feed my daughter dinner now. Good luck.

[vapid jay]

Oh ok, thank you so much, have a good one 🙂

[deep rock]

https://resumeworded.com

[ivory sluice]

so... have you ever used this service? any thoughts?

[mortal wedge]

Haven't used that, but I would like to plug jobscan.co, it allows you to upload a job description and your resume, then it will show you what percent match will be displayed to the recruiter/hiring manager when viewing your resume.

It's immensely helpful and ever since I used it I started getting a lot more callbacks and such.

[weak pine]

What do i have to do to make People fucking liste to me

[rancid walrus]

Hello, my name is Austin and I am just graduating highschool this summer and actually now have to think about my future a little bit. Is getting a computer science degree worth the money you're going to spend on it as well as 2 or 4 year college? Finally I am wondering if getting a job after you get your degree is easy or hard?

[true harness]

the general consensus is that it is much easier to get a job with a degree

[ivory sluice]

nice find, thanks for sharing an actual personal experience 😁

[gilded swan]

when can I say im familiar with a programming language? I know python enough to say im proficient but I also know other languages just not that well so im wondering if i should put that im only familiar with those on my resume

[smoky quest]

why not?

[weak pine]

Référence peaky blinders

[smoky quest]

ok? Not really a channel for shitposting

[shell pulsar]

put tech that you are confident in. Knowing C++ for a job that doesn't require it will almost never increase your chances of getting the job

and imagine they asked you a question in that language or wanted you to code in that, would you be able to do it? If not, I wouldn't put it OR put it under "have prior experience"

[smoky quest]

Some examples https://www.quora.com/What-level-of-fluency-in-a-programming-language-do-you-associate-with-labels-like-proficient-rudimentary-and-the-like.
It comes down to what level of questions are you able to handle during interviews and tasks you would be able to accomplish on your own within a reasonable time and quality

[summer roost]

in general, don't list anything that you're not able to answer questions about. If you say "I know about X" and they ask you questions about X and you can't answer them, it doesn't look good for you.

[shell pulsar]

reading thru a forum of bunch of computer scientists that are career focused is depressing. I am trying to do leetcode but i am not very good at it, and i am a slow learner meanwhile there are bunch of smart people who get into amazing jobs with amazing salary..

[smoky quest]

That's not healthy.
Everyone has a different history, path, opportunities and mindset. There will always be someone more X than you and less X than you.
Be the best you can be and don't worry about the others.

[shell pulsar]

Its easy to challenge only yourself when there is no one around = summer time i focused on my personal projects.

I learned a lot, even more than some of my friends who had internship in FAANG or equivalent companies.

I always looked at what i know more that i didn't know yesterday, how do i differ myself from yesterday...

With this mentality it was really fun and made me productive, but since i am back in competition with others in the classroom + applying to the same jobs, it is kind of difficult to not compare myself with others

[smoky quest]

It's not a zero sum game. There is a lot of room for you and your class mates

[shell pulsar]

My biggest con is i am a slow learner, i barely passed both year 1 and year 2 even though* I devote most of my time to studies.

Barely passing didn't surprise me. Even though I put much effort into many projects, i managed to fail 2. This was the case both in middle school, and high school...

It was a hard-to-swallow pill but I am aware that i am not smart => slow learner => people pass me in competitions => lower paying jobs/positions

[shell pulsar]

of course its not, but its kind of depressing to see that people around me are so smart it affects me negatively. I am always behind, makes me not go to classes anymore

This is not the case when i am freelancing or doing jobs that i very much enjoy. I deliver products and learn a lot from others, but when its a competition where i am not a big fan of (competition here is uni level lectures) ... it makes me sad

[smoky quest]

In my experience, smart has a lot less impact than hard work.
Maybe the way you are working is not as efficient as it could be?

[shell pulsar]

that is a very true statement. Some of my friends call me smart, but i don't think anyone would after learning how much time i put into stuff.

I have everything planned out, i even used to plan out my lunch and dinner. Got my notes in onenote, linking bunch of youtube videos, trying to understand everything so i don't miss anything. Every time i plan something, i always add to my calendar etc. This way i don't waste time

but every year i just discover myself more, more in as i am really a slow learner

[shell pulsar]

i guess i have to deal with it, there is no other proper explanation. This topic of learning speed has been on my mind since year 8 where i started to fall behind.

Anyway, thank you for listening to my rent

[smoky quest]

don't overthink it either.
Practice makes perfect and sometimes it depends on how it's taught or some other variable

[true harness]

In my experience, smart has a lot less impact than hard work.
💯 . i often see people considered "smart" get overshadowed by people just working hard

[ivory sluice]

once you're in the working world, the divide is even more prominent imo

[summer roost]

"smart" people often do really terrible in college, too. People who are smart often breeze through all of K-12 school without ever being really challenged, and have trouble adapting when they reach college and have never learned how to study.

or manage their time.

[ivory sluice]

godlygeek just described me and my entire educational career 🙃 all my hardworking friends that struggled to earn their grades have way surpassed me in their professional careers. they learned how to work, recover from failure and get stuff done

[summer roost]

well, mine too. Sophomore year of college was a lot for me 😅

I got my shit together by the end of college, but it took me some pretty poor grades in the middle to realize my old strategies for school wouldn't work going forward.

[ivory sluice]

i'd say you learned your lesson pretty quickly hah

[marsh thistle]

oh yeah this sucks so hard, it's been a nightmare trying to unlearn my younger "learning skills". Sometimes I wish I wasn't called smart so much, actually I hate it nowadays :p

[vapid jay]

hello may i ask is there a channel were i can post a job opening?

[summer roost]

there is not, no - we don't allow job postings on this server.

[buoyant seal]

I struggled in university too, but considering that 80% of the program were fifty shades of math...
anyway... after the end of university when I started to plan my own program of studies, my learning speed jumped by a magnitude.
So, don't worry too much about it. You don't know yet how you self study

[twin pendant]

Do people in data science ever cross over to software engineering? I know they both utilize programming in different ways of course, but I wonder if anyone ever transitions career wise and how easy that transition is

[rancid walrus]

Thank you so much for your answers to my question. I'm attempting to decide sooner then later but my parents are pretty persistent on me going to college yet aren't willing to pay soo do I want to take on that much debt? mhm haven't decided.

[ivory sluice]

student debt is manageable if you go to a public school & pay in-state tuition, spend a semester or 2 in a community college first then transfer the credits, apply for financial aid, apply for scholarships, and work part-time jobs. there also should be some federal loans with relatively low interest rates

don't go to an expensive private school unless you're wealthy or willing to depend on getting a high-paying job to pay it off quickly

you can also speedrun undergrad and graduate a semester or two early if you have a lot of college credits from high school APs or similar

[autumn swift]

Some would say data science is pretty much working two jobs, software engineer and statistician.

The answer is yes plenty.

[twin pendant]

Huh okay! I see a lot of people say you have to choose one or the other which is a bit disheartening because while interesting, the job of a data scientist can be somewhat limiting.

[autumn swift]

I would say that during your day job you end up very specialised in kicking SciKit and R into shape yes.

That's life in cross functional teams. If you have a software engineer and a data scientist sitting next to each other they divvy up the work in a very specialised manner.

However... at least for the Actually Good data scientists who take pride in their work and lint their code...

The tools are the same, Linux CLI and code, but the tasks are different. A good data scientist can work as a software engineer.

However the number of good data scientists who are dual qualified is extremely small.

[twin pendant]

I’ll work on being the best data scientist I can be then!

[autumn swift]

Honestly the biggest piece of advice is just never say "I'm not an xxx person" haha. It's not that hard to pick up most things, both professions just have a lot of relatively easy stuff to learn.

[ivory escarp]

hello guys what is the use of python

and what is the use of java

[near ocean]

theyre both programming languages, theyre both general purpose, in webdev they usually make up the backend, theyre both incredibly popular, theyre both sought after, java is more verbose than python, they both have enormous ecosystems

[vast shoal]

Java tends to be more commonly used for larger enterprise applications.

Refrain from telling people to "Google it", it's rude and dismissive, and antithetical to the welcoming and friendly atmosphere we want on this server.

[simple zealot]

Apologies for that

[vast shoal]

That's fine.

[stone blade]

Hey everyone, I'm looking for career advice, Should i do aws solutions architect or developer cert. I am a programmer, I want to go into programming and security as a career. No offense to sys admins but i don't really find that job entertaining for me. So should I do solutions architect associate and then professional or just aws developer would be fine?

[sick spire]

Google it

[near ocean]

Bro what is wrong with you, we literally just had a warning go out about people telling others to "google it"

If you dont wanna be helpful why are you even here

[vast shoal]

!tempban 335307332609245192 3d Decide whether it interests you to remain part of this community, and if so, re-read the code of conduct before you return.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @sick spire until <t:1634991254:f> (2 days and 23 hours).

[autumn swift]

Do a practice test on Udemy
or one of the others. It's not what you expect.

Despite what you might think, the test is the same format but the developer one is far easier. Just memorise a bunch of AWS services.

[true harness]

I know this is going to happen to me at some point but I have no idea how to actually fix that 😔

[stone blade]

Oh okay I want to get the solutions architect too, do you think if I get solutions architect I would still be considered good at developer

Bear in mind I have been developing apps in aws and Google cloud for more than a year now

[autumn swift]

Just do the practice test it's not what you think. You don't have to even be a developer. The certs are very simplistic, I wouldn't worry much.

[near ocean]

That sounds like an advert to a scam

[near ocean]

pretty much anything you want to do, also try asking in #python-discussion, this channel is specifically for career related discussion

[toxic venture]

Soo my story is that I have a BS in computer science with 2.2 gpa (I fucked up pretty badly)

After grinding for 4 months since graduation I finally managed to get a job in the field as an Application Developer

I've been working for roughly 5 months now and I realize I want to get into management position maybe 5 yrs into the future (in tech)

Is there any hope for me to get into an accredited MBA program or do you think I need basically redo my bachelor's? Or maybe take classes at a local community College

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this!

[near ocean]

I graduated with a 2.2, currently working with python. I would say you want to wait on the MBA until you actually can move into management positions, when i was in school all of my friends doing MBAs were established professionals with 5+ years of experience, only doing an MBA for the move into management and the payraise that comes with it

as for the grade, you're fine, i very much doubt it matters that much

[quaint frigate]

Hey guys is it beneficial to learn cloud computing as an aspiring python programmer(possibly AI and Data analytics)? if so, why?

[lusty girder]

yes

[woeful spruce]

yes, everyone should learn some cloud computing because it will soon be a necessity on job descriptions, unfortunately

certifications will be expected, etc

[violet minnow]

hi hi, basically im in first year alevel (basically AS level atm ig), currently taking physics, computer science and maths, is cs useful if i want to go into aeronautical engineering? bc part of me wants to drop it since i dont really see the reason why im taking it ngl

secondly, i'm currently studying in python, would it be useful to study other programming languages or would python be useful enough??

[quaint frigate]

@lusty girder @woeful spruce Thank you 😄

[woeful spruce]

most job want you to know 2 or more languages, so yea, I would learn another handful

(I am not a programmer by trade, for the record)

[violet minnow]

but do you think it would be worth learning, say for example C# and Java, for a career in engineering? or would it be better to focus my efforts elsewhere?

[woeful spruce]

I am not an engineer, so it is tough for me to say

[analog sun]

Aeronautics would only use computer programming if you are creating software, versus just using existing software

[violet minnow]

so its kinda useless?

[analog sun]

It is never useless to have another tool in your toolbelt, which is how I see computer programming.
The base knowledge for engineering is going to be math and physics for the most part, so learning as much as you can about those topics will take you far.
I like python because I can use it to apply what I know, without having to do everything by hand

[violet minnow]

ofc its never useless, im just confused on whether i'd be better off taking another subject for my career path or whether cs would aid me in the future

[analog sun]

Aeronautics is pretty specialized, if that is your goal then you should probably get your degree with that. Otherwise you can go CS and then try to move into Aeronautics or vice versa

[versed hatch]

applied for a analytics eng and they asked if i would be interested in being a BA instead (feelsbadman); the analytics eng salary info was (100-180k); I have 4 YOE as a BA --- how much should I ask for?

no salary posted info for BA

[daring swift]

Going to Uni in a year and a half. just wondering about the difference between compsci and compengineering, before I make a career choice (sorry im new to this)

[acoustic merlin]

would it be better for me to go to uni and do a degree in software engineering, or get a graduate apprenticeship where i spend 2 days a week in uni and the rest working for a company doing software engineering?

[sudden quartz]

You need to check your uni for the differences.
In general compsci is more math, theory, software, and academia focused. Engineering tends to be more hardware, and job focused. If you dont plan on research, go engineering. But Again, check your uni for differences

[daring swift]

thanks vinsmoke:)

[sudden quartz]

uh that depends on you? The second program seems interesting but you dont end up with a degree? It depends on your goals but id get the degree, and with a degrees comes a higher degree of freedom, and access to better jobs and companies than your apprenticeship is at.

[sudden quartz]

So youre not in the computer science field? the answer is most likely: Learn Python. But what field are you in?

[acoustic merlin]

i think the apprenticeship allows you to graduate with a degree, since its integrated with the university

[sudden quartz]

if youre dealing with data, cloud is an obvious point of learning. Though It may or may not be useful to you depending on your job.

[sudden quartz]

Its not a simple transition as far as skillsets go... Software Engineering is broad and involves a ton of tools and processes. Data Scientists (a true one in name) typically only touch Python and related tools, and write scripts. Scripting for data scraping and analysis and Software Engineering are two diffrent ballparks. But can people make the transition? It depends on the person and job, but it might be tough for a data scientist who have no compsci education or software dev experience.

[toxic venture]

Thank you this gives me some hope lol

[twin pendant]

Hm… which one do you do

[sudden quartz]

uh, Both. But im a student.
Job offer for SWE.

[twin pendant]

How can I get good at both? Im in a data science course rn and might major in DS in college but I would like to keep my options open and be versatile. I think software engineering is p interesting as well.

[sudden quartz]

Get good at both by doing both. Study statistics with compsci minor OR vice-versa. Go develop some stuff on your github. Take part in hackathons and datathons. Overall I think its easier to be Software Engineer first.

[sudden quartz]

DM me what youre learning now in your course, and what you know about SWE and I can be of more help

[twin pendant]

aaa will do

[wheat briar]

Can python be used to code, lets say a voice activated coffee maker. What other code do we need to learn to build one

[olive ingot]

Yeah, pretty easily. Just need a voice recognition package and you're able to do that pretty quickly with an arduino or RPi

[wheat briar]

okk

thank you

[pseudo helm]

Amazon even makes it easy for you to program any device you set up to work just like an Alexa device. So you get a RPi or Arduino set up with a mic and speakers, and you can use their SDK to build it out. It doesn't have to be their hardware.

[pseudo helm]

Wrong channel

[fair kiln]

What do you think is the best way for a software developer to land or find a job?

Any website recommendation or advices?

[smoky quest]

that's a broad question.
The broad answer would be to succeed at interviews and preparing for them?

If you could refine your question, that would help

[fair kiln]

For a self taught developer what exactly do you think I will need to be able to get my first job? For example a lot of work? Experience etc. and also what tips do you have for the interview n how can I prepare for it.

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/ can be a good start.
Also prepare for leetcode

Overall, look at your target job ads and see what skills are relevant

[fair kiln]

Alright thanks, I’ll look into it

[lost dawn]

Do employers really care about compTIA certs?

Looking at getting my network+ and security+

Or should I just start with a CCNA for a networking career?

[summer roost]

I got a CCNA, and never once used it for a job. Discovered programming after networking, and I liked it more.

I can only speak for myself, but that's my anecdote.

[lost dawn]

@summer roost thanks

[robust sluice]

Hello. I'm new to the server. Is there any good coding course available online? Please Let me know! Thanks! I'm glad to be in this server.

[low halo]

!resources this channel is about careers, but this page has resources you might like

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[dim tinsel]

@vapid jay @smoky quest @dry sapphire A bit of an update, if you still remember me. I tried applying finally. I got an interview on the second try :o

It'll be next week, I'll update you

Thanks for giving me the courage to go ahead and try, I don't think I would've by myself haha

[dim tinsel]

No idea why people come here instead of the general channel which is further up

[dry sapphire]

good job! 🙂

[dim tinsel]

I've still got to pass it though

Unfortunately it's web stuff, but I guess that it'll pay the bills :)

[fluid jasper]

Hi

How can I make money without student degree

[vapid jay]

Nice!!! Congrats and best of luck

[dry sapphire]

it's more important to get started I think! once you have a couple of years companies will be more willing to give you a chance in areas that aren't super-specialised but are different from what you've been doing

[trim willow]

im trying to make a cv what are the key things i should add can anyone help pls ?

[near ocean]

What do you have already

I think ideally you would want 3 sections minimum
Work experience
Personal projects
Education
In that order

If you dont have any experience you probably want to put education first and projects second and then try and fill the gaps

[viscid bay]

by experience no, i have A+ and ccna, no experience, couldnt find a job for many months

it get you some interviews but you will most likely lose to someone with 1-2 years experience unless you have a CS degree

[willow steppe]

how do I start looking for an internship without being enrolled in a computer science degree ? Just graduated from high school and have a long break before i apply to a course i want in tertiary education

[near ocean]

Thats gonna be rough, the overwhelming majority of internships go out to students or recent grads only

[gritty rivet]

Usually by working :) If you mean to ask about getting into software or website development, there are bootcamps and/or self-learning. Build a portfolio, participate in hackathons or do freelance work, apply for jobs

[gritty rivet]

A+ cert alone is enough to get experience in help desk and/or desktop support if you want to get experience that way. If you're applying for those kinds of jobs and not getting any interviews it's usually a resume issue

[crimson crane]

Morning all, I'm looking for a mentor of sorts.
I'm 25 days into "100 Days of Python" on Udemy, and really enjoying it.
I'm in Canada, EST, currently working fulltime and studying at night.
I'd like to link up with someone in the industry, currently working as a developer.
If you or someone you know would be interested, please DM me!

[gritty rivet]

I would look for freelance work if you have the skills, otherwise just focus on learning for now

[vapid jay]

print("hello")

[vapid jay]

I need help

By a Professional Python Bot Coder or Programmer. Dm me pls.

[near ocean]

This isnt the place to ask for help, try #python-discussion or #discord-bots for d.py specific help

[soft geyser]

Ilisten
I've got a decent gov college with stream
"Computer Science Engineering with specialization in IOT and Cyber security with block chain technology"
Abbreviated as CSEITCS

[near ocean]

a mouthful

[soft geyser]

Should I apply for the internal branch change , by which I can get
CS core. Or.
Ai-ds

[near ocean]

This is for your first degree, right?

[soft geyser]

Yepp
Btech

[near ocean]

have you read through the syllabus for these two options? i would personally take the more generic one (CS Core) but you should definitely talk to an advisor about this

[soft geyser]

Your reason for the generic one ?

[near ocean]

it's my first degree

• i want to cast a wide net on which employers would consider me
• i could apply to a wide variety of postgrad programs
• i could switch to a multitude of industries if i want to, from biotech to finance to engineering

[soft geyser]

I'm from India
If that makes u understand my situation more
Wbu ?

[near ocean]

im from an eu country and currently in london, having done a CS BSc a masters and now working in fintech

i cant help you with regional advice, sorry

are you still in high school or did you graduate

[soft geyser]

I'm told that specialization doesn't make that much difference
And yes I should check the syllabus
But here ppl with electronic engineering also get jobs in software companies

[near ocean]

yea, EE is also pretty generic and knowledge applies to many industries

thats why i would favour the generic CS degree and then specialise if i want to

[soft geyser]

I just cleared hs
And got admission in this college with the following stream
I've time till 10 am today to apply for internal branch change

[near ocean]

but of course degrees vary from country to country and even college to college, if the CS degree in that college is trash but the AI/DS one is better the maybe you could rethink the generic choice

The first thing you should do is contact your high school's career advisor if you have any

if you dont have one maybe you could try reaching out to professors at this college in the depts you want to join and ask for more information

it'll also show youre more interested than the average applicant
you could also ask current and former students about their experiences

[safe loom]

Apprenticeship is ending soon and I've neglected job search a lot. I built a year of experience but idk if that's enough for me to get a job soon.

[soft geyser]

Ohk
Thanks

[near ocean]

good luck with your applications

[soft geyser]

Yea

[safe loom]

Also I wanted to ask something about resumes. Do we have to put technical skills forward?

What portion should take up the most space visually? I'd like to retain the attention of the recruiter.

[near ocean]

experience first and foremost i would say

[gritty rivet]

Generally, it goes summary /skills then experience then education but you can stray from this if you have good reasons

Experience first if you have enough relevant experience

Like if your apprenticeship is relevant to what you're looking for, that probably does make sense

[safe loom]

Yeah, I got some stuff done in the past year. However I'm kinda insecure about my portfolio as some of my long-term projects are WIPs, some of them left away... At least it shows I did stuff but I'm not sure if it's convincing enough.

[near ocean]

it doesnt matter
for example my CV was

-name/contact info
-exaggerated line of tech i've used
-education (I had 0 work experience)
-personal projects

[safe loom]

Regardless of the size of projects? Because I'l like to put forward some of the technologies I've used

[near ocean]

yes, the first project i had listed was a small GH action in python
im proud of it more than other bigger projects

[gritty rivet]

They will barely look at your code, if at all, but they may ask you to talk about these projects in your interview. So just be honest about what experience and highlight what you know. Projects on your resume should be your best work but they definitely don't need to be flawless and complete in every way.

[near ocean]

or big, if you made a reasonable complete project then list it regardless of size, the point is to show that you dipped your toes into multiple aspects of dev
from devops to docs

[safe loom]

Yeah good suggestion. Sometimes it's better to have a small but structures package rather than spaghetti code from a bigger project. My current project is a mess with separate points barely tied together.

[mortal wedge]

If that's the case, focus on what it does. As others have said, they probably won't be reviewing your code but they'll probably ask about your experience with the project if it's relevant to the job posting. "What were your biggest challenges? What was the most difficult bug you encountered and how did you deal with it? Biggest learning experience associated with the project?"

[versed hatch]

I’m far along in an interview process however when talking about comp, this company is pressing stock options hard. I’ve gone down this route before and took a stock heavy comp and been burnt — I stated that I’d prefer cash-heavy for now, what else can I say? I have my final interview with a founder tomorrow

[ivory sluice]

you've stated your terms, either they'll meet them or they won't. have they given you a cash comp figure yet? maybe it will be acceptable

[versed hatch]

I did and then that’s when they started pressing stock. They said I wasn’t miles off but yeah, pushing stocks hard haha

[olive ingot]

Makes me question their current cashflow.

[ivory sluice]

so they've not come up with a $ figure to you yet ?

but said your $ was too high i'm guessing from them saying it's not miles off

[versed hatch]

not yet, they made me give a number first

[versed hatch]

their fundraising was legit, most recent was around 3m and with notable investors but yeah no idea on current runway

[ivory sluice]

cash flow is still a very valid concern. investor money doesn't equate to cash flow

[hollow yacht]

How important would you guys say is it to have a cover letter?

[pseudo helm]

I used to be pretty "meh" on them, but I find them a great way to introduce yourself to the hiring person. Gives you a chance to show personality (mine is a "little" funny for instance) and talk about yourself in the role you're applying to.

They're a good way to distinguish yourself in a pile of resumes that leave them off.

[pliant spade]

hi

[icy fern]

the irony is that there is a massive shortage of workers

Any success people working in ML / data science without Masters?

[smoky quest]

in tech, it's a shortage of qualified workers

we see many applicants but too few who can pass an interview

[true harness]

that's why you have like 80% of applicants failing fizzbuzz or something absurd like that

[true harness]

you can easily copy like 85% of a cover letter from company to company, so it's not like it's that much extra work for you

[hollow yacht]

Yeah, that's what I kinda started doing. Filling in the company name & role title in my template and then adding a couple sentences tailored to that company. I just wasn't sure if anyone actually ever read them lol

[icy fern]

How can workers become qualified if the requirements are super high?

[icy fern]

how can someone fail fizzbuzz w/ a CS degree?

[near ocean]

I hate writing cover letters, they feel like catering to a power tripping hiring manager

[true harness]

you'd be surprised

[icy fern]

you can theoretically one line it lol

[true harness]

that's probably going to cause you to fail, even if it's correct

[smoky quest]

Considering most candidates fail at writing a factorial function, I doubt the requirements are not appropriate

[icy fern]

🤔

[vapid jay]

hello guys, I am a programmer who has been learning for the past 2 years, I really love the field of computer science but I have no idea on how to start preparing for a career like getting an internship at a company or getting a job at a company, or get a scholarship for a university or apply for a cs computer science university. or how much should I learn and what it is important the I need to understand. i feel like I am only very strong in the core programming principles of languages like js and python, but i lack in an in-depth understanding of certain libraries and different other programs that I feel would help me down the road and since there is so much I just don't know where to turn to and what I should focus on to pursue a career in computer science. i would rlly appreciate advice of anyone who is experienced or anyone in general, thank u :))

[smoky quest]

if you can write a factorial function, you are literally in the top 20% of the candidates. Which is insane

[icy fern]

?

def factorial(n):
    if n == 1: return 1
    return n*factorial(n-1)
print(factorial(3))

[smoky quest]

yep

congrats, you are better than 80% of the candidates

[icy fern]

lol

def iterative_factorial(n):
  ans = 1
  for i in range(2, n+1):
    ans*=i
  return ans

hire me, 2 diff ways @smoky quest

[summer roost]

I wouldn't say the situation is quite that dire.

[smoky quest]

You could look at:

• https://roadmap.sh/
• https://github.com/ossu/computer-science

[near ocean]

I was told other candidates applying for my role now couldnt do the two tasks
The tasks were "reverse a string" and "check if two strings are anagrams"

[smoky quest]

lots of people out there for that tech dollars

[near ocean]

People do be terrible on average

[summer roost]

"reverse a doubly linked list" eliminates ~90% of candidates.

probably more than that, actually.

[true harness]

anyone hiring a candidate who can invert a binary search tree? \s

[summer roost]

ping me in 4 years 😉

I did once need to do a phone screen where the candidate was surprised that I expected them to write code as part of the interview.

they, uh, couldn't write code.

[true harness]

they're the ones making it so hard to get into college 😩

[icy fern]

def is_anagram(str1, str2):
    return sorted(str1) == sorted(str2)

[summer roost]

great resume, though!

[smoky quest]

I had people complain the factorial is too difficult to ask for an interview...

[true harness]

and you have like algoexpert telling people they have to know like dijkstra's turtle and hare topological mating algorithm for interview problems

[vapid jay]

thank you :))

[smoky quest]

Next would be to talk about the complexity and how to do better

[true harness]

#algos-and-data-structs

[smoky quest]

Also preconditions. always write preconditions

[icy fern]

right I was just writing it fast so I kept it short

[smoky quest]

too many yolo, let's ignore NPE

[icy fern]

idk how you would make it faster though

[true harness]

should it be the function's job to defend against all improper inputs?

[icy fern]

should there be an O(n) solution?

[smoky quest]

(count per letters and it becomes linear)

[smoky quest]

It's about the contract and expectations for the function

[true harness]

so typehints and the like?

[smoky quest]

fail fast vs yolo. Although python is more on the yolo side in general

[true harness]

easier to ask forgiveness than permission

[smoky quest]

which can lead to higher MTTU/MTTR once in production. But that becomes more of a general discussion than #career-advice

In the context of #career-advice , most candidates will write their coding question(s) like they would do some random leetcode, That means a lot of single character variable names, shitty names and no checks.
So going the extra mile by having preconditions, well named variables and other good practices has some advantages:

• It demonstrates craftmanship
• It demonstrates you are thinking about how your code is used
• It makes you stand out comparing to the other candidates
• It helps me project myself, the interviewer, as someone working with you and how you would write good code and not shitty code

[icy fern]

hm i solved it linearly but should the solution be ugly? 🤔

[smoky quest]

is it rhetorical?

[true harness]

more optimized things tend to be more complex

[icy fern]

def faster_is_anagram(str1, str2):
    dct = {}
    for c in str1:
        if dct.get(c):
            dct[c]+= 1
        else:
            dct[c] = 0
        dct[c] = 0
    for c in str2:
        if dct.get(c):
            dct[c]-= 1
        else:
            return False
    for item in dct:
        if dct[item] != 0:
            return False
    return True

I'm sure there's a prettier way

[true harness]

this is turning into #algos-and-data-structs , we should move there

[woeful spruce]

That shortage, from what I have witnessed, is for blue collar jobs. I can't see how employers are having difficulty feeling tech roles, as it is easier to hire people remotely. I could be wrong though.

[woeful spruce]

That is the awful catch-22 lots of people deal with (especially those poor new grads). Eventually, with enough luck and effort, a company gets desperate enough to take a chance on someone inexperienced because they need someone fast and somewhat cheap.

[summer roost]

my company has quite a lot of open positions for programmers.

[woeful spruce]

That's awkward. I wish my interviewers would ask me to write code rather than some illogical Behavioral question. This is typically wha tIe xperience for Data Analyst/Dev roles.

[woeful spruce]

I'd have to ask as to why you haven't hired anyone yet?

[twin pendant]

I'm applying to a data science and AI course in university. I would like to start compiling projects into my github as a portfolio of sorts for future jobs and school as well. What are some good math modelling projects I could attempt to do and then add to my github? I'd love some project ideas/templates or ideas that come from projects you've done in the past!

I do want to solve it myself to test my capabilities, and push myself to grow, but i'd love some beginner to intermediate projects to get started

[woeful spruce]

is the pay low? Or are the standards too high?

[summer roost]

neither, there's a shortage of qualified candidates. 🙂

[woeful spruce]

tough to say without knowing the role. Sounds like this is more senior if there is a shortage. We hired 2 programmers during the pandemic relatively easily, but they were junior roles.

they both had Comp Sci degrees and very qualified

[summer roost]

yeah, most of our openings are for more senior roles.

[woeful spruce]

oh, well again, comes down to the standards. No patience to train and want a risk-free/plug and play hire. I get it.

[summer roost]

That seems to be an argument for only hiring juniors.

Hiring juniors and training them up is great, but it's not a substitute for experience.

[icy fern]

I get the issue but surely 3-4 juniors under the supervision of an experienced programmer can do the work of 2 experienced programmers?

[smoky quest]

it's also a problem of bandwith. You can't have 1 senior for 10 juniors

[summer roost]

no, it's almost the opposite - junior developers generally can't replace senior developers, and in fact junior developers often take time away from senior developers that they could be using to do other things.

[icy fern]

hmm, I guess that makes sense, but others here have described the inability to do really basic tasks

[smoky quest]

it can be both :p

You can look for senior people because your team doesn't have the bandwith to train a junior. And the people applying to the positions can still be bad

[summer roost]

even relatively talented people just out of college are a net drain on the team. They can get work done, but senior developers could get that same work done faster, and instead of doing that work, the seniors' time gets spent training up the juniors.

[smoky quest]

But ideally, you should have a healthy mix of senior/mid/junior in your teams

[summer roost]

yeah. there are plenty of reasons to hire juniors and train them up - they're very enthusiastic, they bring fresh ideas, they don't come with any pre-conceived notions about how teams should work, and quickly adapt to your company culture.

but hiring juniors is an investment that takes at least a year to pay off, if not more.

[lucid vapor]

General question. Do interviews where you have to code typically let you access docs, or no?

[summer roost]

they might let you access docs, or they might just say to pretend the function you're thinking of exists.

if you say "I know there's a decorator to cache things in the standard library but I can't remember it", they might let you make it up, or they might just say "well, pretend it's @cache" and have you move on.

[lucid vapor]

Ok, I was just wondering since I can never ever remember the names of certain functions.

[summer roost]

they know that when you're actually working the job, you'll have access to docs, so showing that you have things memorized is helpful, but not necessary

[buoyant seal]

xD even 10 juniors can't replace one real senior

The difference in productivity is jumping quite high between different ranks
plus the mentioned communication issues. one person has zero communication problems, 10 people has a lot of comm problems.

[shadow mountain]

unless it's a senior "architect"

they never actually write code, so the bar to clear is pretty low

[oblique bay]

Can anyone suggest real life python project ??

[snow rapids]

a program that would generate project ideas based on Twitter trending tweets

[haughty surge]

i want to be a astronaut

[jolly cedar]

hello

[cursive oasis]

heey

[quiet summit]

Hello lm new

@eveyone hel

[safe loom]

How many years of experience are needed to be considered a senior in data science?

[trail shuttle]

Hi everyone, Im new here. I have a job seeking related question. I was working as Sysadmin (Windows mainly) for the las 10 years and always love to scripting with Powershell. Lately I started to get into Python, with some courses, online "certification", challenges, etc, and i wonder if is viable to someone with my career path to turn to something more coding related, and, if possible, what kind of certification/course/project can be relevant to achieve this goal?

[summer roost]

I realize this was meant as a joke, but this is a sentiment that I've heard often from juniors, and rarely from seniors. It takes a quite inflated opinion of the skills of the average junior to suggest that they'd be able to passably perform the job of an architect. Designing systems is quite a bit harder than coding to spec, and a good design can save hundreds of thousands of lines of code compared to a bad one.

[shadow mountain]

I mean no disrespect. sorry about that

It's an important job

[summer roost]

It's absolutely viable. Since you say "sysadmin", that makes it sound like you're more Ops than DevOps. I'd look into building up your skills on Azure, and then try to get into a DevOps role. You will definitely be able to find companies that do DevOps for Windows systems using Python as a glue language, and that gives you a foot in the door for a job that's more coding related, once someone has paid you to write some Python code.

[shadow mountain]

I certainly don't mean I can do their job, just that at my company, the architect is so busy with meetings he hadn't really checked something in for 3 years or so, and he was laughing about it, so I thought it was ok . But it was in bad taste, and I apologize

[summer roost]

It's interesting: juniors often really struggle to design even relatively simple things (should this be a class or just a dict? Should this be one class or two?). I know I did, OOP design didn't come naturally to me (I don't think it does to anyone, really).

But juniors tend to be so focused on just one small area that they don't think of the much, much bigger design decisions that someone needs to make (should this be one service or two? Should we build this on Linux or Windows? Should we use a SQL database or a NoSQL one? What libraries should we use? Who should own each part of this?)

And those sorts of decisions are more impactful (a wrong choice on any of those makes much, much more trouble than a wrong choice on how to organize a single program's code).

It's exactly the sort of thing that juniors tend to be blind to, and it takes a while for them to clue into the fact that all these things about the system they work on that they take for granted, someone needed to sit down and design.

[faint karma]

go for it!

[honest pivot]

I've designed most of our codebase in my current job. It's very hard, especially when there are deadlines so you can't just think about things for as long as you want. It's full of flaws I didn't foresee and I would love to rewrite it, lol.

[safe loom]

Yeah, as a junior I can attest that I haven't reach full maturity at decision-making. In a time-constrained setup I have trouble estimating what should take priority, so I end up wasting a day or 2 on how to implement a new feature, and sometimes without my superiors' help to egg me on.

[dry sapphire]

design (especially domain-driven design) is incredibly important IMO

I work with my tech lead a lot on design because we're refactoring a legacy application and some of the choices they made were really bad

[dry sapphire]

I think part of this is also due to a lack of exposure; if you don't do it you don't understand how important it is

[honest pivot]

I think there's another effect as well. If all you see is the result of a design process, then it seems like the design is simple to work with. Or it should, if it was designed well. But it takes a hell of a lot of work to make something seem simple. Same goes for writing academic papers, which I have more experience with.

[dry sapphire]

similar to good UI/UX.

[honest pivot]

Yes, especially since a lot of OO design is focused on interfaces.

[safe loom]

Good thing I'm also improving my UML skills if we have to start a project from scratch.

[dry sapphire]

is UML commonly used where you are?

[safe loom]

Not in my bootcamp, but I had to learn a trick or two with Mermaid.JS and/or PlantUML for my reports. Especially when I haven't conceived certain parts of my app right now.

[scarlet sparrow]

What channel do I go to if it's some sort of assignment related with Python?

[dry sapphire]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[scarlet sparrow]

That was fast, ty

[vague jolt]

Do I need to know multiple languages to get a job? Am I pigeon-holing myself by sticking to just Python?

[buoyant seal]

that's perfectly normal to know just one full programming language at the start, or even for years

some secondary languages can be still expected though, bash, SQL and e.t.c.

[vague jolt]

I am an undergrad looking for an internship, dunno if it matters to know multiple langs

Oh yeah, I understand SQL and like Linux so I have basic knowledge of Bash

[buoyant seal]

people usually expect to find a person knowing one language, but knowing well

the master of many languages... well, that's only any web developer becomes in a future 😆

[dark verge]

I’ve never met one person who had mastered one language and that was it tbh. Most people I’ve met know multiple languages, however that isn’t to say you need to. (Edit: unless they’re a huge contributor to a language. It would make sense why they’ve mastered the one. But again, never met a person at a job like that.)

You do it naturally, you learn one language and know specific concepts, but you’re going to want to make specific projects that are going to have to make you look at code in other languages.

When you know one language, the second will be a touch easier to learn, then the third gets easier, fourth, fifth, you end up knowing them conceptually pretty quickly in order to do whatever you wanted to do in your project.

But no one is gonna look down on you or anything if you only know python, they only care if you know how to code in general. (Edit: especially if you’re young and are just trying to gain experience)

[viral oxide]

do anyone know how to uh make python ask question and if you said no then make it loop about that how

[viral oxide]

example
do u like pizza: no
ur lying
do u like pizza: no
and loops

[vapid jay]

This thread is for career discussion.

[viral oxide]

oops sry where do i go

[vapid jay]

Check some internet-tutorials and learn

[viral oxide]

ok

[real scroll]

@blazing dirgeone!

[vast shoal]

Check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[gritty rivet]

After all the above discussion I'm just as confused about whether I should or should not describe myself as a "Python developer" on my resume, GitHub etc. Python is the only general purpose language I currently know, so it feels accurate... But maybe too limiting? I have no professional development experience yet even with Python but that's where I am trying to go

[vast shoal]

If Python is what you want to work with, describing yourself as a Python developer seems like a good idea.

[heady kelp]

how can I have mic?

[near ocean]

Go on amazon and buy one? This is a careers related channel and that message sounds like offtopic

[vapid jay]

Easy

[twilit forum]

Have you developed things in Python, if so, then why not.

Imagine if you want to hire a carpenter or other craftsman, would you be disappointed if they had equivalent experience in their field? If yes, maybe think twice as well.

[summer roost]

I think that analogy falls flat. Programming languages are tools. If a carpenter knew how to use screws but not nails, it would be concerning.

[craggy elm]

anyone else getting crazy work requests due to the semiconductor shortage? apparently im being asked to engineer a hyper complex data pipeline in 4 days due to it lmfao

[gritty rivet]

Agreed here, so I'm not going to be applying for a job that clearly requires another multipurpose language like Java or whatever.

[smoky quest]

You could if the skills are transferable (ex: backend python vs backend java) and you are willing to pick it up

Engineers aren't defined by a specific language. That would be sad

[gritty rivet]

So in that case would describing myself as a Python developer be likely to send a signal that I'm unwilling to learn other languages?

I'm just trying to think through how to describe my limited skills accurately without boxing myself in more than necessary

[smoky quest]

Sorts of. I also try to avoid reading too much into titles, but that may come across that way.
That's why I prefer more general titles like software engineer

But don't conflate where you are at, from where you want to be and from what you could do.
While you don't know java, nothing other than your will, would prevent you to pick it up at another job. And job hunting is a lot about projecting what you want to be rather than where you currently is right now.

[crimson verge]

Hey

[smoky quest]

There is a lot more to it, but the tl;dr is to not gatekeep yourself. You can write code in python -> you are a python developer / software developer / software engineer.

[crimson verge]

I am a Computer science engineer Should I go for data scientists or machine learning engineer role ?

[smoky quest]

There isn't one better than the other. They are different.
So make a list of pros/cons for each and pick the one that seems the best for your case

[crimson verge]

Can you tell me the pros and cons?

I am a programmer

So which would be better for me?

[smoky quest]

you don't need me for this. You can google these

[smoky quest]

Machine learning engineer

[crimson verge]

Ok

[smoky quest]

It has three words comparing to the other with only 2 words in the title. So it's obviously better in your situation

[crimson verge]

😂 how is that related?

[smoky quest]

I don't even know you. How do you think I could tell you which one is better for your situation?

So I flipped a coin

[crimson verge]

Which one is easier to do?

And which has more job opportunities?

[smoky quest]

They are both in demand and interesting jobs.
The best action from you right now is to google more about them, even try some mini projects to get a feel for it and see which one makes more sense for you

[hollow barn]

hey guys, I am a grade 11 student from India and I would like to pursue my career in the field of Quantum Computing, but I feel quite lost at the moment so it would be really helpful if anyone could guide me and tell me what to do next

[vapid jay]

The whole scene would still seem to be pretty much lost. IBM Qiskit might be interesting.

[azure atlas]

I have 4 experience into IT sales
How can I became a developer
Please suggest

[vapid jay]

Just study hard few years. Sales expertise is useful in many areas. e.g. in data field work etc

[azure atlas]

I want to shift to devops or programming career

[vapid jay]

After all, they go hand in hand. It’s a good idea to start with programming and try what it feels like.

[vapid jay]

Hello folks.
I have something I want to ask because it's getting frustrating.
I didn't study computer science in college, and I've used python for one year like any noob, just writing stuff line by line.
I've progressed and started studying computer science on my own, and I'm trying to strengthen myself by reading a lot about multiple things, design patterns, OOP, some algorithms here and there.
The problem is that I now work as a test automation engineer ( I'm an engineer in the first place but just not in CS) and I don't like my job, there are no challenges and my company is not encouraging growth and lots of stuff, AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, we use TS/JS.... 🤮
So I've decided to start working as a part-timer and chase more knowledge on my own, and I come seeking guidance from all of you.
What are the things that are most needed in python ? What should I start learning first? Is there a path I need to follow ? What are the skills needed to work as a software engineer ( using python mainly )
What can be found in the horizon when it comes to using python.
Thank you.

[visual rivet]

Whats the problem with TS and JS?

[gritty rivet]

The most important thing is persistent practice, and that generally comes by following through on projects that you are inherently interested in, and everyone is different in that regard

It's also helpful to look at job listings you are eventually interested in. That is the best way to get a sense of what skills you should focus on learning and practicing

[vapid jay]

I see, but that's still too "broad" for me.
I feel like there's just a lot that I want to learn, and whenever I step on a stone, it shatters into multiple smaller stones that I need to learn as well.
So I thought that I might be missing a lot of basic things that I need to learn first

[gritty rivet]

Learning is endless... I think it helps to focus on concrete results. "I want to write a program that does X and Y. I'm willing to spend 2 weeks on it." Get it done and move on to the next project. If you're coding everyday or close to it, you're guaranteed to learn useful things.

If you fail to meet a short term concrete goal, you know better what to prioritize in learning next

[vapid jay]

I totally agree that it's endless, but knowing where to start is always tricky.

But thank you for your answer !

[smoky quest]

You may want to look at books like cosmic python or websites like https://roadmap.sh/

[vapid jay]

I will, thank you!

[twilit forum]

They aren't even tools, they are tool sets. Someone who describes themself as a Python developer is assumed to have a certain skillset.

Carpenters aren't expected to know every single thing about carpentry, and a Python developer aren't expected to know every single thing about neither python nor development, but enough to carry out our learn how to carry out most reasonable projects.

If you label yourself as either, but can't deliver, you are doing potential employers a disservice and quite frankly being dishonest.

[smoky quest]

That's why you describe yourself as a software engineer and apply to python jobs

[twilit forum]

Yeah, virtually every application process will prompt you to describe yourself with more than 1-2 words anyway. Coming of with a snappy description of your skill-set and background will help way more than whatever delta you may gain from calling yourself a "software engineer" or a "python developer".

Probably 🙃

[near ocean]

Never been asked to describe myself in any of the interviews i've had tbh

[proven goblet]

hello, i know python okayishly (almost every builtin but dont know much about different packages)(i only know numpy numba and basic stuff like time) and i feel i am more than good enough programmer, how do i start getting work by programming tho ? i am 19

is there anything extra i should learn ?

[smoky tangle]

@proven goblet I just made a career change at 30 to a programming/IT role. I'm still very early on so this may not be the best advice out there, but for an entry-level position you don't need to know it all (heck, you probably know more than I do). I'd say do your best to make your resume stand out with what you have now (so you can get a real person to look at it). Any projects/portfolios will help do that! Once you get the job, you can learn the rest of the stuff you'll need to know.

I was a high school math teacher before this, with a BS in Mathematics. No professional programming experience. Send out lots of resumes and you'll get an interview. Don't get discouraged if it takes a while.

[proven goblet]

ummm, i have no idea where to apply for work

and plus i can only work part time cause of uni

[smoky tangle]

I did all my searching on Indeed.

Idk about part-time work, that sounds a bit more niche, but I'm sure it's out there. You could start at a help desk or something (perhaps even on campus)

[proven goblet]

i tried out freelancer.com but havent gotten a single response :(

[proven goblet]

uni is kinda weird cause of covid. no uni is open in my country

its all online :(

[smoky tangle]

You may have to send out a lot of applications. My daily plan was to start at around 8am and apply for as many jobs as I could until either I ran out or stopped for lunch. I saved my afternoons for other work. I did that for about two months straight before I even got an interview. It may take a while, but stick with it and something will come.

[proven goblet]

okay thanks for the motivation :)

ill try my best :)

[smoky tangle]

Hey if I can do it at 30, you can certainly do it 🙂

it may feel gross and disheartening, but just keep at it

[gritty rivet]

Never heard of it, maybe try UpWork.com

[north solstice]

!code

[inner wren]

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

[lost apex]

Great advice. After you send your portfolio also try to call with the guy in charge. It helps.

[lost apex]

I test my candidates on logical thinking. If someone can solve issues, he / she will learn and develop

[vapid jay]

Makes sense, but to what level ?

[gray anvil]

I did the same at 29, and all this advice is on point

[delicate python]

Hey does anyone know any certification-kinda-thing which i can get to show knowledge in data structures and algorithms?

[wet bobcat]

can anyone help me with python?

[vast shoal]

Yes, but not in this channel. You can ask in #python-discussion or check out #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[twilit forum]

If you already know TS/JS I would say you have a great start to web development. There is (at least where I live) a decent demand for Django developers. It's very good to know some database design fundamentals as well as basic SQL as well.

[dark verge]

Well you don’t like TS/JS right? I would assume you wouldn’t like a whole lot of web development if you don’t like working with it haha. Maybe you would enjoy back end development, but that kinda requires you to at least know some general web dev stuff.

However, the beauty of python is that it’s incredibly universal, you can practically do anything with it. The question is more so where do you wanna go? What are you wanting to develop with python? Software sure, but what kind?

And you seriously can go anywhere, even without a degree. I was always a minority where ever I interned/worked at having a degree personally.

I’d say if you’re simply just wanting to be a better python developer, just keep creating python projects :) experience experience experience, it’ll always be more valuable on a resume than what you’ve learned. It’s also a great way to feel yourself out and see what you genuinely are interested in when it comes to python.

[twilit forum]

Some applications of a language can be more fun than others. I'm not a huge fan of JS/TS either, but I work with web so I just mostly do backend stuff instead!

[dark verge]

^

[vapid jay]

Not quite.
It's unrelated to web dev in general.
I just don't like to use the language.
I prefer using python if I want to do some web dev.
I've tried working on a project using Flask for example and I enjoyed it.

I don't know where I want to go tbh, that's the question from the start.

[dark verge]

Oh that would make sense why web dev was mentioned in the start lol, my bad

[storm hound]

Hello Guys. I have a question. Not really a question tho but i need an advice.
I study both computer science and computer engineering in college. I just started learning how to program some months ago. I don't really know how find a balance between programming and developing my hardware capabilities. Since I do both programs I need to have a fair idea in all. How should I find the balance and is there any course you'd recommend for me to partake online?

[short rune]

Open Source projects?

[vague jolt]

true, I feel kinda gross after sending out a lot of applications and not getting a single response back.

At this point, I am just tired but I still need to find a summer internship.

[languid hill]

Hello

Anyone here?

[elfin scarab]

Do u think I have a chance finding a remote job through LinkedIn?

Or is it even possible? I'm from Iraq so that's the takeaway

I know a lot of stuff so my resume will be good

[gritty rivet]

Have you done any freelance work, like on UpWork.com or any sites like that? Definitely apply for remote jobs but if you're struggling you can gain practical experience that way.

[nova pawn]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[sturdy slate]

! eval print(789)

[gritty rivet]

This depends entirely on what you want to accomplish. SQL, JavaScript, C# and many others could be useful but for different kinds of things.

[nova pawn]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[balmy jewel]

I have pratical hand on these tech stacks but still they don't consider indians for such jobs even for the contractual ones.

[balmy jewel]

If you're heading up in the web dev go with ES6, for backend I would recommend either ES6 or Java as they still scale well in heavy loads, for desktop dev you can use either .Net or ES6 based framework, for mobile dev use react or flutter.

I hope this might help you in your near future.

[chrome idol]

yo

[rain scarab]

Yo

[vast rapids]

I'm trying to get at least some simple ( like internship job ) but got no luck what can I do to improve my chance?

[haughty grove]

im a bit in a crisis right now. is it a bad idea to go to computer science university without previous background in that field? i wanna learn it but i cant by myself because im always getting distracted. or can i do some courses or something that an employer would look at and say "he knows what hes doing" or something like that

i definetely chose the wrong school for myself

[true harness]

most people going to school for cs haven't programmed that much

[haughty grove]

well i kinda finished secondary school and i would not like going back because i would be too old for it

[near ocean]

80% of my class in uni (cs), including me, had no programming experience of any kind
We all just did maths/physics/chem/bio

[haughty grove]

how was the start what do they begin with? also i didnt do the last 3 of those subjects

[near ocean]

They just went into a language, for me it was java and python, they start from the beginning like you would eith any new language, assuming no previous knowledge

[haughty grove]

Oh really that's so relieving to hear i thought they gonna go full throttle expecting you to be good at it already because you went to school for it. This made me calm down a bit i thought i wasted 6 years for nothing.

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[near ocean]

You cant advertise here

[quaint whale]

I’m constantly told that software engineering will be irrelevant in the next 10-20 years and that AI will replace engineers is the true?

[zinc bobcat]

What is a career in INFORMATION SECURITY AND ETHICAL HACKING is like ?
Please give me a reality check because I saw a few YouTube videos and they are unrealistically good!!!!

[smoky quest]

no

[quaint whale]

Can you elaborate

[smoky quest]

Not sure what much there is to say.
AI won't be able to replace all the software engineers at such horizons

[hoary prism]

first of all it is more difficult than becoming a simple software engineer, furthur finding a job in it is not easy.And lastly you have to learn the basics of linux windows cmd networking and a especially C language for starting as a beginner in this field.

[hoary prism]

yeah it is.It will become more difficult as you have no computer background.

[true harness]

more difficult maybe, but most people don't have anything programming or cs xp before uni

[smoky quest]

I don't think it's more difficult either. Just a different set of skills. The range of jobs is also pretty wide, from fear mongering (+ easy tools like nmap), to politics (compliance, certifications, wrapping security tooling for the company CI/CD, babysitting devs/leaders), to technical. Most large corp security folks I know about fall in the second category

[true harness]

wait what?

[smoky quest]

What about it?

[true harness]

he was asking about going to uni for cs without any cs background

[smoky quest]

The question was: What is a career in INFORMATION SECURITY AND ETHICAL HACKING is like ?

[true harness]

yeah, the second message responded to a different question

[smoky quest]

yeah I didn't mean to reply to them. I didn't set the explicit reply

[true harness]

i see

[smoky quest]

It's completely fine to go in without knowing anything. A lot of students will be in the same situation and you should not let yourself be intimidated by more advanced students. On top of that, the background of the students is pretty diverse and thus the first few months are about going over all the basics in order to bring up everyone to the same level.

That said, I would be more concerned about your inability to self study. University/college give a lot more freedom than high school, they won't hand hold you as much, and that applies regardless of the topic.

[gritty rivet]

I doubt that, but it doesn't really matter because there are no longer any future proof jobs. Whatever profession you choose you will have to keep learning new skills constantly. There are lots of job titles related to software engineering now that didn't exist 10-20 years ago.

[lusty lily]

To errors point... Coding is a better background for computer science than nothing at all

[smoky quest]

being better doesn't mean it's strictly required

[haughty grove]

Well autism and addiction i guess however i don't know and i don't think this is the place for that. Also i feel like i haven't gotten better in 2 months

[smoky quest]

Get professional advice and help for your health issues.
For the part about getting better, it can be very subjective and hard to gauge. What makes you say so and do you think is hindering your progress?

[haughty grove]

I have no idea tbh maybe a bit of the usual impostor syndrome but i cant get anything working even if it's pretty simple. Then i get frustrated and do something else :c

[smoky quest]

That will be something for you to dig in. CS is full of frustrations :p

[haughty grove]

Oh really i thoughts its only me? How do you deal with that

[smoky quest]

I love puzzles

And the best part about CS is it's logical. There is always a reason. So you can bang on it and eventually you will get to understand why you see what you see

[haughty grove]

I hope i can look at problems like that one day. Its weird that is so different. In from electrical background and solved control circuits easily even from the start. Maybe i just need to get used to it. Just have to find a way to stay motivated

Thanks

[lost apex]

@elfin scarab it depends on your skills. I take a skill test. I assume others are doing it too.

[elfin scarab]

Well I know sql,linux,python(selenium,os module,requests,json,sql..etc),c++(gamedev), web development, webscraping, and some intermediate cyber security(web app pentesting) I guess I have to sharpen my skills and wait until I'm 18 to apply for either a pentesting role or a web dev/web scraper

[summer roost]

I'd strongly recommend going to a university to study computer science. Especially if you're interested in pen testing. That requires a lot of expertise, and it will be much easier to get a job in that industry with a degree than without one.

[elfin scarab]

Yep that is my plan, we don't have any pentesting courses here(in unis) but we have an ec-council branch, my plan is if I make some money while in the comp-sci uni then I will take an oscp course, maybe even an online course dunno what the future holds

[summer roost]

If you're interested in security, taking courses that talk about low level stuff will be very helpful. Operating Systems, C, assembly, and so on.

Most of the interesting attacks are based on pretty low level stuff.

[elfin scarab]

I tried learning assembly but damn, It takes a lot of effort to create the most basic stuff

Never tried C tho

[vapid jay]

hii

[alpine lark]

carreer discussion as in advice for my future job according to my interests

right?

[true harness]

anything sorta related to "python and the world of work"

[alpine lark]

ok

i wanna ask some questions actually can anybody help me

I have done html a lot i have learned c++, and python as for java i am trying i wanna go in the field of computer sciences

which job option can prove good for me??

[near ocean]

Have you gone to uni yet

[true harness]

should also clarify, computer science is an academic field. you would do research or be a professor.

[alpine lark]

ok but before you all give me sugesions imma tell y'all i'm a 9th grader

[true harness]

what country?

[alpine lark]

INDIA

[near ocean]

How old is that

Well actually it doesnt really matter, ask your career guidance counselor

[gritty rivet]

You're way ahead of the game. I wouldn't worry about the details of your future career very much, just focus on getting in to the best university you can

[main coral]

is computer science a good course and how hard is it to get a job after you graduate? currently 1st year med tech

[vapid jay]

since you have learned some aspects of these languages, I would suggest you put together some project.. it will help you learn more about what the daily life of a software professional can look like

[vapid jay]

computer science is quite a broad field, i would say that in general if you know how to program, you'll find something after you graduate
however, it may not be what you enjoy or expect
its good to talk to people with similar backgrounds and who have made the transition, they might be able to help

[main coral]

My cousin easily works after graduating he only waited for a year or relax for a year i think

I think i like programming idk for some reason i just enjoyed it after just doing the hello world

Instead of wasting 10 yrs in medicine i can be a programmer and work for 3-5 Yrs for experience then work abroad for higher salary

[true harness]

you should know you like programming before completely switching

[main coral]

Yep practicing rn

And i am confident in my brain

And programming is wayy easier compared to learning the human body itself

[true harness]

the basics of anything are easy. i'm just trying to get you to really consider if you want to switch or not

[main coral]

Ill update you with this

[vapid mesa]

Can we have fs in chat

Lol I'm jk

[pastel marten]

Two interviews start of this week for backend dev positions.

Career changer. I've been a hobbyist programmer and web developer since my early teens in 2002/2003. A few freelance projects here and there, but built something cool mostly in Python/Flask over the past year.

Panicking about the interviews. Confident in what I know; but I'm aware there might be A LOT I don't know. Really keen to move into a programming job. Any pep talks? 😅

[summer roost]

Career changers bring a different way of looking at things than people who were churned out by the typical CS pipeline. There will be many things that you don't know, but there will also be many things that you bring to the table that others don't. And the fact that you've gotten two interviews back to back indicates that people see value in you.

My usual interview advice is to not fake knowledge, and admit when there's something you don't know, and express willingness to learn it. Everyone constantly has things that they need to learn in this industry.

[twilit forum]

Domain knowledge is valuable as well.

I studied biotech and bioinformatics, now I develop a IMS for a biotech.

[pastel marten]

Thank you. That’s reassuring.

[sleek ginkgo]

mhm.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until <t:1635119469:f> (9 minutes and 58 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

[native narwhal]

Who do you think gets paid more
iOS or Android
developers?

In your own opinion no googling

[smoky quest]

whichever you enjoy the most

[near ocean]

Irrelevant cause no android/ios position out there uses python as the main language

[main coral]

for hospital?

[peak halo]

I would refer to Glassdoor. Python isn't really part of the mobile development world, so I don't think you're going to get an informed answer here.

[alpine lark]

Thanks

[alpine lark]

Ok i'll try it

thanks for the advice

[trim willow]

dammn no offense indians are dammn good and intelligent

[hollow egret]

yup

[wheat briar]

Can different languages be used to code one thing?

Or can i just focus on mastering Python to code for example AI/ machine learning

Worded differently does it improve the overall functionality of my AI program if I can code with multiple languages

[smoky quest]

wrong channel. This channel is named #career-advice and is about careers.
You would have more chance in #python-discussion

[smoky quest]

Intelligence has nothing to do with nationality, race or gender

It's also off topic and has no place here

[worthy mango]

Hello what kind of skills do I need to have to get internship?

if I solve problems at hackerrank for example and understand them good and do a pretty good code is it possible to get one? or even without that

[hollow slate]

Hello guys, I want to improve my skills And very much interested to learn ML/DS … currently I am zero level but I working in Java full stack domain.

I am super confused in my career.. any suggestion 🙏🏻

I am very much interested to start with python but any new advice will be welcome

[halcyon sonnet]

how to learn
intermediate level of python

[nova pawn]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[near ocean]

Not the appropriate channel for this, try #python-discussion

[rain walrus]

if you are a begineer and want to get better than one of the best way to do it , to make a list of projects that you want to create and start building them by googling , do not copy paste, try to think through the process and keep asking as much as you can

you eventually would realise the importance of reading documentation and then eveything is sorted when you master that

[rain walrus]

i feel like the most confident of the person can be confused in this domain , i am also super fconfused , i do not feel much sad, or worried it is more of a confusion as to what the hell do we do , do we do our own startup , learn ml or get a simple job , i have decided that my primary aim is to work for my own startup that i won and believe in and until that happens to survive i will work for someone who does something that i believe in and learn that thing

[rain walrus]

do more and more projects and maintain them on github ( i.e. learn git ) and share them and collaborate , personal projects are even better

[rain walrus]

if your indians means the top rankholders of the schools/uni you are right , but that would be true for most of the universities, if you are suggesting the indian upbringing and the culture and the education system is very good and producing intelligent kids then you are horribly wrong

[rain walrus]

depends on your work, if it is valuable you will get a job maybe not in the google facebook like that , because they have many problem, but that does not matter because there is money flowing in the tech sector and there is a shortage of people to fill in the jobs and just make yourself valuable and you will get a job

[rain walrus]

absolutely , not eveytime , but most of the time

[rain walrus]

only two things matter passion and money , all other things fade aways and are dust just flies off

[twilit forum]

No, RnD. But I have seen ads for similar roles at university hospitals

[oblique furnace]

Currently My entrance exam got over and now I have 4 years in my college. I have some experience and knowledge on computer science and I have learnt basics of programming languagues like python , lua , c# etc. I tried various stuff as well. Now I am confused on what to do in college because I will have to look for a job after the college gets over. And I don't want to do job.. I have some ideas but I can't do them alone. Basically what should I invest my time on? Small projects like discord bot? Or go for a project which will be quite ambitious?

[twilit forum]

Everyone who has complex, and an abundance of, data will eventually need someone to structure it. When it comes to designing those systems domain knowledge is priceless.

[oblique furnace]

I also have interest on stuff like ML and AI (already did a basic course on ML) but I feel so confused rn because I want to do so many things but I can only master one .

[hollow slate]

I am maintaining some practice project in git but I am lagging behind the motivation from past 2 years. I am trying to find out bootcamps in BLR,IND but need some clue.

Your comment is really appropriated I’ll again start working on it

[gritty rivet]

@wheat briar or better yet #data-science-and-ml

[main coral]

Go work and do your side hustle sacrifice some sleep until your side hustle can take over your work

Side hustle : your other idea

[twilit forum]

Sounds awful, free time and other hobbies than programming are important.

[rain walrus]

Lucky , although i might not fully understand the range of emotions you might feel , but i can assure that thinking that you are the only one who is feeling the same emotion would not be right. You must understand that everything has a solution, if you want to do something an you are not able to by yourself , collaborate with someone who wants to do the same, that is why surrounding yourself with good people is really important , also only you can/should solve the problem but it does not mean you can get some help, so ask more people what they are working and if they vibe with you just get along with me, this will give you motivation and give you a new perspective

[hollow slate]

Yes

[potent monolith]

can i get a job by only knowing python ( Part time is fine too )

if not , then what else should i learn

and also lemme know the requirements for a full time job.

[rain walrus]

YES , search for python developer job if you find them you will found it as simple as that, note that even if you take advices from the most experienced people at last your decision will be dependent on job providing websites like google jobs, glassdoor, linkedin etc. . Also this sector is very volatile and there are infinite possibilities and opportunities.

[potent monolith]

thanks

[rain walrus]

please do not blindly trust no one and always do your own research , whether you have time or money for that or not , trust no one

[potent monolith]

and after making a Python app / Software , what is the best platform to submit the work ( So others can download )

[rain walrus]

u r yet to get introduce to the oxygen of programmers / coders the world of github

[limber moss]

Hey, my name is Tony and I am a beginner at coding! I want to eventually develop mobile apps. I wanted to join to see if any of you have thought about starting your own social web platform or app before? I kind of want to bounce ideas off of different people. DM me if you want to share!

[vapid jay]

Hey there! this isn't anything related to python.
I just want to know If you are from India.. in which class you are? or are you in graduation? or in any Job?
if you are doing your graduation?
I need your help really. I am going through a lot of pressure. please I want your support.

[trim willow]

uh huh not an indian but i think i can try helping you out if you want

[vapid jay]

No bro, actually this IIT pressure can be understand by Indian student only. 😅
thanks for your help bro 😃

[near ocean]

Do you think students from other countries arent under pressure?

[true harness]

see #❓｜how-to-get-help or ask in #python-discussion

[polar snow]

wrong salon, I change

[polar snow]

thank you

[vapid jay]

This is kinda 😬

[vapid jay]

No I don't mean that bro. but indian students know better abou the condition of IIT that's it
not meant of any offence

[vapid jay]

sry bro didn't mean to offend anyone

Nobody is “better” for simply existing buddy

[vapid jay]

I didn't get you

[native lance]

hes not saying hes 'better' wtf, indian school system is much more strict and puts much more pressure on students than american school system

[vapid jay]

Fr

[true harness]

does it though

[vapid jay]

yes

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ if you say so

[near ocean]

Sounds like cope to me tbh, you cant tell someone theyre not indian so they dont understand and then turn around and lecture people on the american system...
Are you american?

Also, all this discussion when you could have posted your question or worries instead of asking for people of a specific race/nationality

[pastel marten]

Permanent salary expectations

Anyone else get annoyed by this question? How do you respond? How do you respond if you really want the job, how do you respond if you’d take the job if it paid enough?

[near ocean]

i did some research on glassdoor, weighed my experience against it then came up with something around that average i found

[pastel marten]

Essentially company is a recent start up without much backing so looking to save money on people. I’m keen, but I have a standard of living to maintain too. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Thanks @near ocean

[near ocean]

i ended up settling for under the national average but i literally had no experience

[gritty rivet]

I say as little as possible and turn the question around. If they can't tell me in a straightforward way what their compensation policies are, I'm not interested.

I also agree with mariosis

[smoky quest]

Same comment as the others. Look at the current salary ranges (glassdoor, levels.fyi ...) and see what they say. They will obviously try to get you lower than the current ranges.
If they have little backing, I would also recommend to probe into it. What round are they in? How much runway? How is the current growth?

[idle mango]

Hey guys
I want to suggest we daily have a topic to discuss so that we all know and have knowledge from each other

[misty ridge]

hello, I'm new over here, in which program should I start programing. I have some previous knowledge but I don´t know what program to use

[vapid jay]

Do you really have to have a degree of some sort to have a good job as a programmer?

[smoky quest]

you don't but it definitely makes it a lot easier

[swift quail]

Hi,

I am an EEE student who will be graduating 2023.

I am currently taking all ML, AI, image recognition, signal processing, optimisation modules.

I am looking to puruse a data science career: I dont like EEE and love programming.

Wondering what advice you could give for someone like me to build up a CV to land interviews ( I got to a target college which might help with this) and then what specifically to do to be able to pass these interviews?

[smoky quest]

have some projects to practice, learn and go deeper into these topics

[vapid jay]

Hi,

I am a begginer python programmer, and am very interested in visualizing data. Any tips on how to proceed with my python journey and what steps i should take in the future?

hey guys

i wanna get into software engineering and im in
right now, any tips?

[near ocean]

You want to get in but youre already in right now?

[vapid jay]

Hi,

I am a begginer python programmer, and am very interested in visualizing data. Any tips on how to proceed with my python journey and what steps i should take in the future?

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. This is channel is #career-advice . For python related questions, you would have more chances in #python-discussion

[smoky quest]

Are you missing a word? You are in what right now?

[vapid jay]

hello

have to send 50 messages lmao

[vapid jay]

Alr

[smoky quest]

And to hammer in the point, while it's possible without it, I would definitely recommend against skipping a degree.
If you can get a degree, do it.

[vapid jay]

Ok

[pastel marten]

Nervous night before interview question: what do you wear for a remote interview? do I bother wearing trousers? Socks?

/s

[versed hatch]

same thing you wear to an in-person interview?

[near ocean]

Haha, i had a couple remote interviews and i just wore a button shirt and shorts and tried really hard not to get up for any reason

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to wear a trouser and to feel comfortable. Do some jumping jacks to get the blood flowing and sound dynamic.
A lot of it is for the mindset

Also don't wear clothe as political statements

[main coral]

whats the best course for programming?

[buoyant seal]

starting CS course in university?

[dense vapor]

That's definitely true. It looks so much better in your application. I am self taught and did lots of online courses (starting to get some certificates now). My boyfriend has a degree and has already been working as a software engineer for years. While you can learn so much from online courses I found (through him lending me his university stuff) that most of the time there's so much stuff lacking from them and employers know this as well.
You can find a job without a degree, but it's much harder and you will still need to prove yourself somehow. Getting a degree was probably much easier than my way of doing online course, after online course and still missing information.

[main coral]

Can you give me the best course for programming

And whats the best job
In terms of
applying
Salary

I am quite confident with my knowledge that i can learn fast and i can retain memmory fast

[vapid jay]

I need advice on how to get unstuck. I have been learning python and other than codewars-like problems which are probably useless in the industry, I have no idea what to do or what project to make that would be considered useful in the real world to showcase and train my skills, any advice ? ... thank you

[vast shoal]

What kind of job do you want?

[vapid jay]

Sorry for not making this easy but I have a weird path, I'll organize my answer so it is clear to read :

• got a cs diploma that would allow me to go to cs uni and maybe get a master
• currently following a web and mobile dev bootcamp
• I don't have any specific thing a like more than any other in programming, which is not helping my case, but I have to be honest and say game dev is something I would really enjoy but there's no company that does game dev where I live other than like ubisoft and becoming an indie dev is probably the road to killing my career and to unemployment. I just got lost a year back when I started getting into more complicated topics and started over from there and got where I am today.
  Really sorry for bothering with what seems to be a mental breakdown or something though, sorry for pinging as well 😅

I know the thing that is going to give value to my job/position is if I get specialized in something but if I can't get past that blockage this is going to be tricky, unless I am mistaken

[buoyant seal]

CS diploma to allow going to CS uni? what is it? I thought CS diplmoas we get when graduate from CS uni

[vapid jay]

I live in france so I don't really know the equivalents in other countries but basically I have what we call a BAC+2 (for +2 years)

That allows me to go to any uni in france that does CS in L3

I need to find the equivalents in order to not be confusing, really sorry about that 😅

[buoyant seal]

there is plenty of things to learn that are universal for almost ANY programming path:

Disciplines:
Data structures
OOP
Design patterns
TDD
Clean code practices
DDD
System design

Tools:
Git

that's in case if u have nothing to do 😉

[buoyant seal]

anyway, I think the only thing that probably really matters
is just choosing for which platform you are going to develop

choose if you are web dev(targeting servers), desktop dev(targeting windows or macOs?), mobile dev(targeting Android or IOS)

you should be able to find job for any of those specializations, and becoming game dev later (with making them for appropriate chosen platform)

[vast shoal]

I mean, you can always focus on web dev, there ought to be a lot of jobs in that no matter where you are.

Maybe mobile dev as well.

Once you have your feet on the ground, maybe you can think about transitioning into gamedev at some point.

I agree that going indie with no income, no plan and no experience is probably not a good idea.

If you do want to focus on web dev, that's the kind of projects you should be making.

Figure out what frameworks are mentioned frequently on job ads and learn how to use those, by making example applications in them, and put those on Github.

(I don't mean like, just a super simple basic app from a tutorial, I mean proper applications that do something useful, just implemented using frameworks that are popular on the job market)

[vapid jay]

I guess you're right, I'll look into that direction.

I think changing my mindset is one of the most important thing, I'm barely 21 and already having negative thoughts about my future career in programming this isn't good

[vast shoal]

Once you feel like you're in a more comfortable position, like you have a dev job and you feel reasonably comfortable in that role, you could start learning gamedev on the side, and maybe down the line you can try to apply for a gamedev job somewhere.

21 is not old, lots of people transition careers much later with a lot of success

[vapid jay]

I live on an island so I hope I'll be able to move to the continent in the future, will check job offers there for sure

Thanks for taking your time to answer, means a lot

[heady zephyr]

nhjhuji

[fluid aspen]

In the future, i wan't to be like a founder/ceo of some company. What 2-4 programming languages are recommended for founders/ceos?

[vapid jay]

highschool

is signal and image processing a good field?( for research and job opportunity)

[exotic trench]

How much experience do I need to get a job?

[near ocean]

none

[exotic trench]

sighs Do I really need to specify?

[near ocean]

yes

im not sure what you want to get out of this, entry level jobs exist out there

[exotic trench]

How much experience do I need to get a job as a junior dev?

[fluid aspen]

I think about 1-2 years

[near ocean]

junior starts from 0 to up to 2-3 years, so none

[exotic trench]

So I can start applying now?

[near ocean]

yes, assuming you have a cv ready

[fluid aspen]

Just, dont apply to job if u only know how to print hello world

[exotic trench]

The fact that I have to ask what a "cv" is means I don't have one ready. So, what is it?

[near ocean]

a resume, curriculum vitae

[exotic trench]

I definitely know more than hello world.

[fluid aspen]

For how long are you doing in python?

[exotic trench]

I don't know the exact amount but it has to be close to a year by now.

[fluid aspen]

That's fine. You can learn python in few weeks/months

[exotic trench]

Learning python was the easy part.

[fluid aspen]

Are you learning some other languages?

[exotic trench]

I tinker in html, css, java script, swift, and some other languages for modding.

[fluid aspen]

Oh, nice

I am thinking about learning c++ but not sure in that. It's not really good for begginers like me

But also i like game & software dev, c++ is good for that

[exotic trench]

I like game dev also but the kind of games I want to make are meant to be made by large teams.

[exotic trench]

What should my resume consist of?

[true harness]

look up resume templates they can give you a good idea

[fluid aspen]

Yep, maybe in the future you will find some good team for game dev..

[devout jetty]

do leet code is necessary ???

[true harness]

no, but it could help

[devout jetty]

is it a good platform to practice

[fluid aspen]

In my country (Czech) is not a lot of gaming job opportunities for game dev job.. So in the future i probably wan't to have some normal job & game dev doing at the nights. Or create some good game dev company.. :3

[tacit beacon]

i have a question as someone who loathes 9 to 5, 5 days a week - is there someone who works 4 days a week?

[true harness]

there are some companies that do 4 days 10 hours

[tacit beacon]

Yeah I’m on the fence whether that’s better, you’re basically dead for 4 days but that extra day might be worth it

[true harness]

honestly, that extra 2 hours a day wouldn't feel like that much more

plus if you can have the off day on like Wednesday, that's even better

[tacit beacon]

I’d like Friday I guess - do you work that way?

[true harness]

no

[near ocean]

the new norm nowadays is 3 days in 2 days home
thats what my place does and speaking to other big corpo execs it sounds like thats what everyone is trying to reach

[tacit beacon]

Work from home Is a blessing

[near ocean]

it depends, if you have a nice clean setup then yes
i personally dont, im in a flatshare right now and my room is tiny and depressing, spending most my day in there would drive me crazy and unproductive

i've had the option of working from home for a month now and i still havent taken it

[tacit beacon]

Obviously, it depends on a person. Was remote work proposed because of the pandemic or does the field in general wants to move to remote work?

[near ocean]

for us it was proposed because of the pandemic, my understanding is that my industry does not want to move to remote work but theyre trying to appease employees

i work in investor relations so meeting clients in person is quite important and much more productive than a virtual meeting with everyone's cameras turned off

heads of IR/directors/CFOs i've talked to or interacted with have all expressed that they want their analysts and client facing people in the office

ofc im kinda lucky cause im not an analyst or account manager or any sort of client facing role, i work in the backoffice for a small startup and i get to chill every day with casualwear and theres no issues with me taking a remote day

[tacit beacon]

And why did you choose a small startup instead of a big corpo?

[near ocean]

i chose the first thing that gave me an offer

[turbid spoke]

How much can I make as a python coder in a company
I mean what will be the average I can earn

[near ocean]

that depends on your country, your industry, your experience, your company, theres literally a bajillion factors

[twilit forum]

It will be hard to find a job as a python game dev.

[fluid aspen]

He meant game dev not in python, probably in c# or c++

(I think)

[twilit forum]

That does make a lot more sense 🙃

[fluid aspen]

Yess

[exotic trench]

I use Python for ML

[glass pecan]

Hello Everyone..
Who is beginner in python ?
Is someone , then please DM me ?
I want to talk about something related to python!

[near ocean]

This isnt the channel for that, theres literally a channel named #python-discussion right above thats exactly for that purpose

[dark verge]

I did something like this when I worked IT and it was nice. I was juggling with college too, so I was working 10 hour days to take mondays off (I found myself needing mondays more often than fridays).

Working from home is awesome too (different gig from IT), at least I enjoyed it a lot. However time goes by slower I should add. And since my team was all remote, I had to be awake and available for them, and that’s was early in the afternoon for me. So I would be online until evening.

[vapid wedge]

Hey everyone, when do you know when you’re “job ready” ?
I know Python a little bit of Flask and Java.
Also what are some cool projects with Flask I can do?
I struggle to think of anything that would look good to a recruiter since Flask isn’t visually appealing. Maybe I should learn JavaScript in addition to make projects more visually interesting?

[dark verge]

I also knew a dude who worked Monday, Tuesday, took Wednesday off, worked Thursday and Friday, and took his weekend. And that sounds nice too not having to work for 4 days straight and getting the breather in the middle of the week :>

[dark verge]

Unless you’re going into design n front-end, don’t worry about design. Worry about functionality, your bosses surely won’t care how it looks, they only care if it works.

You’re never going to be “fully ready” for a job until you ultimately get a job. You’ll learn more just by going through the day to day.

Knowing python and flask is a dope way to get into backend stuff. Play around with backend if you want, or if you want to learn design and how to make things look nice, go forth with front end, maybe go full stack

Hell, my first internship, I had a coworker who built a whole page with just python and flask and actually made it more functional than I did with mine. Company ultimately ended up using his work.

[vapid wedge]

Full stack does sound really interesting because of the entrepreneurial aspect of it, if I can learn and actually become good at both front end and back end I can essentially build an app by myself.
But I’m scared I’ll spread myself too thin and become mediocre at both front end and back end lol.
Also if I make some mistakes I apologize English is my second language.

[dark verge]

There’s a reason developers and designers are usually in two different sectors of a company ;)

[dark verge]

That’s a fear most have, hell I have that too. Think about if you wanna be versatile with the languages you know or incredibly fluent in a couple of particular ones and become an expert in those languages. There are pros and cons to both.

I like development and mainly do so as a hobby and have for a long time, so I was never worried about being really good at one thing. I’d like to be decent at building an app all by myself rather than be an expert in just front end or back end and need someone else to help me out.

However a lot of people prefer working in a team, and seek that out, so there’s no need to know everything if someone on your team is an expert at one of those things if that makes sense

It’s merely a where do you see yourself going, if you’re just gonna be working for others there’s not really a huge reason to go full stack unless you want to for yourself. If you see yourself trying to start your own company, then learning full stack may not be too bad of an idea.

[vapid wedge]

Thanks a lot for the detailed replies, you really helped me gain some clarity, full stack it is.
I appreciate the help!

[gritty rivet]

Have you ever used Flask to build an API that can CRUD entries in a database like Postgres? I'm working on one right now.

[dusky summit]

Hiya, would someone currently working in the UK spare some time to help me rewrite my CV and maybe give me some advice in my pursuit of a job in a post-brexit UK?

[twilit forum]

Just apply asap, it's the job of the recruiter to judge if your skillset is suitable, not your. That said don't lie.
Maybe they are fine with your juniority and are willing to train you.

[storm grove]

Is it possible to be making like 60k a year with an entry-level job if all you have are certificates from online courses?

[near ocean]

no

[storm grove]

So how do you do that

[near ocean]

you dont

[storm grove]

I mean like how do you get a 60k entry level job

[near ocean]

you dont, not without a solid education
i have friends from UCL and Imperial, top of their classes working for mega banks not making that

[storm grove]

I know someone who finished high school, was hgihly ranked on some cybersec website and had a few projects under his belt who took a gap year and made 60k a year

I guess he got lucky, he did say he applied to like 150 jobs.

[near ocean]

that sounds like an exception to the rule so i wouldnt go by what they did

[gritty rivet]

Are we talking USD or what currency?

[near ocean]

oh i forgot to ask actually, i was talking GBP

i imagine usd is easier to get because its weaker than GBP and because of cost of living adjustments

[gritty rivet]

Yeah to me $60k in the US for an entry level software engineer is definitely possible

Hard but not impossible without a degree

[near ocean]

£60k is incredibly hard to land in the UK unless you somehow join one of those fabled unicorn startups
I would say without Russell group paperwork its actually impossible

[twilit forum]

In Sweden the entry level for someone WITH a degree is about half that lol

closer to 3/5ths, but still 🙃

[near ocean]

i got a degree, £25k here for an entry level position, i think its good to be realistic but also realise that money isnt everything and when you get a job you'll see that you'd probably rather it was a fun job but pay less than a hard stressfull job that pays more

[twilit forum]

Yupp, pretty spot on what I got at my first position as well.

With 4 years at Uni.

[dark verge]

It's hard, but it's possible.

like the above said, you really cant be picky and have to apply for every position you find

idk about UK tho, just US

[twilit forum]

The U.S software market is completely different from here at least. The salaries are completely bonkers, like triple what ppl make here. And it's not like Sweden is considered particularly poor.

Or I'm getting played for a sucker 😄

[dark verge]

lmao, i feel the pay is so high here bc they make you do sm work. At least that's my assumption, I've never had a dev job. But I've had jobs as IT specialists and UX research. and all i ever hear about is how much work developers and engineers have on their shoulders lol edit: at least when it comes to working for someone

like yeah, you get paid 60k, but its also bc you work 60-80 hours a week

my perception may be totally off though

i should clarify, my perception when it comes to the rest of the world, how much they work compared to US, etc. not so much what I've seen myself in a tech company perception.

[vast shoal]

I'm not in the US, but I barely ever work overtime.

I definitely don't think my job is stressful.

[twilit forum]

Me neither, 40h per week. Whenever I stay cause I don't want to leave in the middle of something I go home earlier the next day.
My job isn't stressful either, but sometimes difficult, which can be stress inducing 😄

[dark verge]

It's unheard of to not work OT here in my experience

that may be the nail on the hammer then

[near ocean]

50h work weeks here but its ok because most of my time i just browse stackoverflow and answer questions
and the rest of the time i fake something being hard when its extremely trivial

[dark verge]

yeah, stress is just part of any job. I personally dont mind working over 40, however my job also isnt very high stress, all i do is make prototypes and test them w/ users. I sometimes have to make a bunch of prototypes in a day, though I never have to do work outside of work

and I feel a lot of developers here have to work after work

[near ocean]

do you have a lot of client interaction?

[dark verge]

like user testing? I work for a smaller company but sure, i get a bit over 100+ users for usability tests and stuff. However w/ shadow interviews I pick from like 10 people maybe, more if i have to

its all remote though, I don't do anything face to face

[near ocean]

ah, i kinda like talking to people tbh, i maintain a couple internal tools and i get people asking me questions every day all day long

[dark verge]

I do too :) I like interaction with others a ton

[vast shoal]

I don't mind talking to people, but I would not want them bothering me all day every day.

[dark verge]

however its def more of a listen and take notes job rather than you actually doing all the talking

[vast shoal]

I like being able to focus on a task for at least a couple of hours at a time.

[near ocean]

a couple of hours is too long for a task imho, sometimes that couple of hours extends during lunch break and then i forget to eat

[dark verge]

At least w/ design (UX especially) you have to talk w/ so many people. Like if I have an ideation for a prototype and want to test something, I'll have to check with the developers to make sure they can actually program the thing I'm trying to test out in case I see really good results.

Which most of the time, it's possible. But there could be easier methods and all that.

I work better if im "in a zone", I can eat up time intensely quickly that way

i used to work for a company in which product managers would just... plan... for months, and then finally talk to the developers about it for the first time after testing has been done and protos are finalized. Not the greatest way to go about things let's just say

[storm grove]

@near oceanWe are talking USD

[near ocean]

USD is more achievable then

[storm grove]

With the certificate thing then?

[near ocean]

no idea about certificates at that level, im not sure how 60k USD translates to gbp so cant say

why are you asking about certificates, do you not plan to go to uni?

[dark verge]

for most its money and time, its easier to spend 300 and a few months on a cert than it is to spend tens of thousands on a degree that takes you four years

[storm grove]

I am applying to universities right now to do a physics or engineering degree, but I want to make money while in university so I can fund some projects I want to start during uni. So I'm just looking for something to make the most money with a reasonable time. Also, I qualify for basically no federal student aid so I have to make some money to afford university.

[near ocean]

i would say focus on building some cool projects than getting a certificate, use your physics/eng knowledge to code up something neat

[storm grove]

And cs jobs usually pay well entry level

[storm grove]

I see. Alright, thanks! That's actually very helpful.

[near ocean]

for what its worth @vestal pelican here is a physics student and they make some super cool shit, you should try and catch them in offtopics sometime and see

[gritty rivet]

Freelance is a possible option. UpWork, Fiverr, etc.

[storm grove]

Oh, awesome! I'll definitely do that.

[storm grove]

Yeah, potentially. That's a good option as well actually.

Can you make good money doing freelance work though?

[dark verge]

Honestly focus on projects, have fun with development while you're in school. Work at the helpdesk at your university so you can program your own stuff and do school work while getting paid. It just isn't 65k salary, but it can be a $15-18 an hour job, which is always nice for a college student

[gritty rivet]

Depends entirely on your skills

[dark verge]

freelance is good option too if you're pretty skilled

could start off making webpages for shopify or squarespace too. I know freelance jobs like that exist, doesn't have to be completely full fledged full stack stuff

[storm grove]

I see, okay thanks guys!

[shy mist]

Is there somewhere to post jobs here? Im an in house tech recruiter

[vapid jay]

everyone stop being sexist at work and call out sexist ppl in the workplace thank u

[near ocean]

excuse me what

[ivory sluice]

@shy mist recruiting is not permitted on this server, see #rules but you can check these out

[signal mango]

hey guys!! I'm from India and
I will graduate in 2022 and now I've been placed in Accenture with a current package of 4.5LPA. But I would like to work in Product based companies. I'm Confused. What should I do? Should I take this offer or not?

Can anyone plz give some advice?? Sorry fa my bad English..

[shadow moss]

Accenture will likely place you wherever they feel like.

[orchid ivy]

unless you requested to be in a specific group or previously interned with the group, you'll be placed based on the company's needs

[vapid jay]

No more responsive to my site, what do you think: https://b4b4.netlify.app

[ocean ledge]

is that a good salary? maybe you can keep searching for a better position

[elder shell]

There is jobs? to peoples like programmers?

I mean, it's easy to find? Everyone can copy somethinh from stackflow

[ivory sluice]

yes there are a lot of coding jobs out there. what's your age/education level/country?

[elder shell]

16, in the last 2 months of high school, brazil

[ivory sluice]

talk to your peers, seniors, career counselors, relatives.. find people that work in tech in your network, ask if they know anyone. that way you can be exposed to the options out there and research further how to get there

[elder shell]

seniors? eh... carrer counseleors..? Let me explain about brazil educacional system.. They dont care much if we will find a job or get in college... And Software Enginner is not much.. required for here. I mean.. It is, but a bit hard. So i wanted know, what country can i try go to get a job like programmer

[ivory sluice]

there's no job market for software engineers in brazil?

[elder shell]

There is, we are a developed country at all. But the harder part is how get in, we are in a economic crisis for 6 years.. Then find a job like that is a bit hard at all. Not impossible, but i do not know what part join in the software enginner market. Like, i do not know much about what every job do