career-advice

[lament pawn]

How do i improve my skills in estimating time and cost required to complete a task or a project ?

[vast shoal]

To be honest, the only way I've found is to gain experience, and even then it's error-prone. If you do a lot of projects of a given type and you work with people you know, you get better at estimating similar projects. But the more unknown variables, the harder it gets. If you're going into an unknown domain, working with unknown technology or you don't know your teammates, it's always really hard to give accurate estimates.

[honest pivot]

I work in a similar sized startup and we are happy to help each other, we all have things to learn, and different areas of expertise.

I can't fully guess what your work environment is like, but from your story I see some red flags. People are not willing to help each other? Or they feel under too much pressure to complete tasks to "have time" to help each other? It doesn't sound like they are functioning as a team. It almost sounds like they are being set up to compete against each other.

And if you are having trouble reading other people's code, sure that may be your problem, maybe you're bad at it. Or maybe there are no standards in code style, no code review, and other people are terrible at writing readable code.

[lament pawn]

My problem with estimates is the fact the solution i try does not always work.
Which means if i tell something take a day to finish it takes almost three days.

[honest pivot]

Maybe try adding some extra time to account for the possibility that your first idea doesn't work

[vast shoal]

Yeah, exactly. That can always happen. That's why anything except problems you are extremely familiar with are very hard to estimate. But yeah, like @honest pivot said, you should add extra time to account for lack of information. In my experience, everything always takes longer than you think.

Even when you seem to know every aspect of a problem, there's always the possibility that your computer hardware breaks down, your essential teammate gets sick, the IDE decides to manifest a bug that prevents you from starting the system, the cloud-based CI system has an incident, etc. Stuff that sets you back no matter what.

I think the most important thing is that when you start to see that an estimate is breaking down, you should let the stakeholders know as early as possible to allow them to revise the plan, reassign resources, reprioritize tasks, etc.

[lament pawn]

@vast shoal what do i do when someone ask for the costs associated with a new feature?

[vast shoal]

Make a best guess, add time to account for unknowns, make it clear the degree to which you're unsure about the estimate.

If they don't accept that, they don't understand how software development works.

[lament pawn]

How do i know if a feature x in a software is worth it to develop?

These questions have been in the back of my mind so long.

Or do i deliver as the client requested because i get paid for developing ?

[vast shoal]

It's your job as a developer to present the relevant factors influencing the decision to develop a feature in a way the stakeholder (can be a client, a superior, a requirements analyst, whoever will receive the output of your work) can understand (i. e., not in technical jargon unless the stakeholder has technical knowledge, but still containing the pertinent information), so that they can make an informed decision.

If they ask for the impossible, you need to inform them about why it's impossible in a way they can understand. If they ask for something that's likely to fail, you need to explain to them why. If despite your best efforts they decide to go ahead anyway, you just have to roll with it. You've done your due diligence.

[vast shoal]

The answer to this question obviously depends on a lot of different factors.

[vapid jay]

Hello, I have a Bachelor's degree in Electrical and Electronic engineering. I would like to become an expert in the field of automation ( with help of raspberry pi , python etc.) and data analysis/ visualization. Can you provide me a guideline? I have completed studying the basics and also did some projects from Jetbrains academy. I am actually kind of lost. 🙂

[olive hazel]

can you elaborate on "automation"?

[vapid jay]

For example, automating a factory process. I know basic PLC but it's not possible for me to practice with PLC at home. 🙂 Feel free to ping me

[silk hatch]

Outside of fiverr and actually getting a job at a company, how else can I earn some money using programming?

[short pulsar]

Do you know a good resource for basic information about penetration testing?

[silk hatch]

?

[short pulsar]

sry missed a word and forget to switch keyboards.

[wintry crow]

Hello everyone my name is Enmanuel and Im currently studying computer information systems. I have an assignment where I have to talk to someone who has the CompTia A+ certification some questions. If anybody would like to help me it would be really appreciated.

(Here are the questions)

1. What do you do?
2. How long have you been doing it?
3. How do you like it? (job satisfaction)
4. What kind of projects are you working on right now? (name no less than 4)
5. What's your favorite part of your job?
6. Tell me about your career path leading up to your current role.

[gritty rivet]

What's your deadline? I can do this but not at the moment

[wintry crow]

@gritty rivet thanks for your interest in helping me, my deadline is tomorrow

[gritty rivet]

Ok, I'll try to DM you within the next 12 hours or so if I can

[wintry crow]

thanks

[silk hatch]

I dont know anything about penetration testing

[spiral bloom]

Hmmm So I do get code reviews on stuff that I have worked on and I do get help when asked. I think its just during this moment in time, the current project that we're working that seems to be a Developer and a Data Science project all in one, things are just unclear to me. Also I guess its because all the senior dev people are in UK team which are 5 hours ahead and we only have 3 (including myself) contract workers for the U.S team, and all 3 of us are junior level.

I got hired as a Junior Data Engineer but it feels like none of the stuff that Im doing has anything to do with Data Engineering and has more to do with some backend dev, data science stuff. The data science stuff is kinda hard for me beause Im not so great at math.

If you guys came into work with a brand new project or got allocated to a project thats already being worked on, how would you take the time to figure out or understand the project?

Do you guys think a start up environment is a good place to start your career post coding bootcamp would it be better to find a mid-large company where you'd be focusing more on your role rather than wearing "different hats" so to speak?

[long vortex]

@spiral bloom I have a somewhat atypical experience, since I work at the startup I left to go to a boot camp, but in my experience a startup can be a very good place to go both broad and deep into a range of topics and quickly develop competency/responsibility. I’ve never worked at a big company, so take that into account, but I think more important questions than “big company or startup” is “will these people invest in my skills? Will I grow quickly in this role? Do they respect their people and have good work/life balance? Do I feel like I can learn here?”

For myself, does anyone have experience with working either at a company or freelance as a blockchain dev? I’m a web developer currently learning python as part of a pivot to that space and the community is so large and overwhelming I don’t know where to start to get my bearings. Podcasts/newsletter/blog recommendations welcome.

[spiral bloom]

I see yeah this makes sense. But I also feel like Im learning new job responsibilities that aren't very close to the actual position I would like to train myself for so thats also somewhat frustrating because it means I have to spend time outside of work practicing that stuff so when I try going for a more permanent Data Engineering role I can have somethings to talk about instead of saying "Well I was hired to be a Data Engineer for this contract role but my role responsibilities kept changing and haven't really been able to focus on actual D.E stuff."

As far as podcasts I just watch Youtube videos on people that are in the role that Im interested in. I watch the Day-to-day vids, project vids, maybe I should give podcasts a try

[tough pollen]

Hello Everyone I am currently pursing my computer engineering undergrad degree and I recently started my second year where they say the core subjects appear and it's important to perfect these fundamentals , Honestly before starting my college I just learned about introduction to programming did some linear DS and some SQL and felt I can do it for the rest of my life and so started it... But recently I just saw this huge influx of people who wants to become developers and do coding and stuff, So I am not very competitive in general but now I can't stop but think whether I should stick to what I am doing right now or just find a better non competitive area which is hard to pursue but pursuable for me.

[long vortex]

I’d say early in your career it’s good to have an idea of what you’re angling for, and prioritize hitting that trajectory. If your manager is good and the company has the right idea, you should be able to talk openly with your manager about your wishes and a plan to realize them.

[gritty rivet]

In order to excel at something, you have to be interested in it, and work hard at it, which go hand in hand. While you also need to be aware of trends in the job market but I think for most people the harder part is figuring out which things you enjoy enough to follow through and do better than average.

[neat ether]

Hello everyone my background study is in biology and now I want to switch my career hence learning python on my own and my target is to learn data science and fetch a job. Any advice would be helpful as I am beginner in coding.

[spiral bloom]

Watch Corey Shafer videos on youtube. I think he's great for python vids

[full gate]

Hello guys

[muted breach]

I started using python last week

[jolly girder]

Hello Everyone my background is in C++ but I have to learn python for work. Can anyone suggest some good resources on learning python for people who know C++. Your help will be appreciated. Thank you

[frail bramble]

if u know C++ that means u know the basics of programming. All u need to learn syntax. It's pretty much all the same, languages is just about syntax. I was using https://www.w3schools.com/ very informative and just enough to learn syntax and also has some tasks, they are lame though)

If u find something better, let me know)

Actually I am looking for educational video, materials about machine learning, data science, AI. Anyone can recommend something? Very simple for beginners in this field.

[balmy mural]

docs to learn syntax, stackoverflow for some more specific questions. As SlayeRAIN said, if you know how to program, it's just a matter of learning the syntax of a new language.

[balmy mural]

For video specific stuff I can recommend sentdex, never did his full ML course, but it did seem to be put together pretty well
If you have a solid mathematical/statistical background you can check out "Elements of Statistical Learning"
For just learning a library and understanding the parameters and how it affects models without getting into the nitty gritty math, you can check out "Intorduction to Machine Learning with Pythong" by Andreas C. Muller and Sarah Guido

[frail bramble]

thx

started Course
/
CS50AI 2020

on edx..org

[vapid jay]

should i become an information safety specialist

[frail bramble]

yes

[vapid jay]

ok

thx

[fickle flax]

Hello I was wondering , for a data science internship , do need to know just the basis Neural networks like NN CNN RNN and supervised and unsupervsied ?

Because i dont think i have to know all algorithms but just basics but not sure what is consider basic

[gritty rivet]

Depends on the internship. You should ask them what preparation they are looking for

[round eagle]

Hey I am new to the community :)

Can someone explain how should I start python ?

I have nothing much idea about coding I know basic HTML so pls someone explain me

It would be a great help :)

[humble kelp]

My salary would be ~600usd every month as a technical team lead in a fortune 500 company :/ FeelsBadMan to be in a third world country man

[gritty rivet]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[gritty rivet]

You would be lucky to rent an apartment anywhere in the US for $600/month

[vapid jay]

I don’t really see any other opportunity to start a career as a coder than to start learning to code. There are a lot of courses for beginners on the internet, e. g. Udemy offers low-cost courses, but you can also find free material.

[gritty rivet]

On the other hand when I look for entry level Python jobs I almost get jealous of Bangalore, there are so many more jobs ;)

[vapid jay]

Can you even get a room in Silicon Valley 2000 $ / month 😆 OT btw

[smoky quest]

definitely. Rooms would cost a lot less than that

[vapid jay]

Okay, I might consider to work there for a couple of years sometime in the future. I am currently enjoying Northern Europe.

[fickle flax]

@round eagle in addtional to start learning python, you should learn at least : variables, scopes, loops, arrays, hashmap and sets, functions, objective orient programming. And for any tutorials to really learn , need to get hands dirty so like try to do more than just watch and copy and paste code. Try to add more and search for projects that involve those topics and apply what you learn. Once do this, find field interest at you most if thats web dev or backend or data science etc and learn more about those

[pseudo plinth]

Hi, to preface this I would like to say that I live in the UK. What type of software development pays well (like commonly 6 figures for senior members)? I'm studying MEng Mathematical Computation and want to know which job "route" to pursue. As much as I love games, development is on my blacklist due to the crunch and what not. I love to work hard, but I also want more in my life than just work. Could someone give me a stir on which type of software development to aim for? Do you think I can get my pick?

[fiery latch]

Well paid depends where you live. London costs more to live in than the north. 30-40k is fairly common for a dev. That can go up to 80k for some roles. 6 figures is more likely in a fin-tech role

[static crypt]

Hi all, I am freshly out of college, and tomorrow I will be having a job offer coming in for a junior data scientist position. I have no idea what I can expect for pay, or believe I should be paid. Are there reputable websites or information out there to gain some intuition as to what salary I should negotiate towards?

[ivory sluice]

congrats! tomorrow is soon 👀 have you already looked at sites like glassdoor.com? if you're lucky and your company is big you'll see salary ranges for your exact position

if not, you can still get a rough ballpark figure based on your title and region.

AFAIK the first rule of negotiation is let them come to you first with a number

AFAIK the second rule of negotiation is to keep a poker face or voice, and tell them that you'll think about it and let them know

[static crypt]

@ivory sluice thank you! I've looked on glassdoor, but since it is a small company I only know what the lead data scientist makes

[ivory sluice]

oh at your exact company? that's still good to know. you can look up salaries for your job title at other companies too not just your own. there are other sites that collate salary data but I imagine they're country-dependent. are you in the US?

@static crypt i think ive also used https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Data_Scientist/Salary in the past

[static crypt]

Yea i am in the US, and glassdoor has 1 salary report for the lead data scientist at my specific company. Also, I'll check that out !

[ivory sluice]

if you don't mind my asking what was your degree, any special internships you did or previous work experience? personal independent projects?

[nimble oriole]

How much python do I need to know to consider myself a junior and start applying to a sysadmin(I like to automate things) or as a dev(front or back it's equally fun for me)?

[radiant moon]

as much as they spell out in the job posting

[uneven tree]

Is there anyone here who codes discord bots in python?
if so let me know, cus i need a hand creating one.

[hollow flame]

Theres quite a lot who do, and don't ask to ask. Just ask, #discord-bots

[uneven tree]

oh wow thanks, didnt know the channel existed

[coarse tendon]

What constitutes messy code?

[fair kiln]

Do you think college is necessary getting a job in software development career?

[lament pawn]

Yes and no .
Many large companies dont even look at your resume without a cs degree.

what is an agile coach ?
what is the role that they fulfill?

[vast shoal]

I think they generally help teams adopt an agile workflow.

[lament pawn]

Have you worked at a workplace that used agile ?

[vast shoal]

Yes, more or less all of them.

[lament pawn]

I have never worked in any capacity like that

[gray anvil]

if you're in a small setup you might not have reason to use it so fair enough

Heck I'm in a big bank and our it arms are only really adopting now

[tawdry storm]

i've never not worked in an agile environment, so i'm not sure what it's like to not be part of an agile team.

[tawdry storm]

i'm honestly surprised lol. most big banks have stayed "traditional"

[lament pawn]

I've heard that banks still have mainframes

[hot panther]

When it's time to get a job

[regal fulcrum]

should i get a job when i grow up

[honest pivot]

This is #career-advice

[vapid jay]

Oh woops

[honest pivot]

Pretty sure we're not agile, but we use the word "sprint" to mean "we're gonna work on some stuff"

[agile meadow]

can I ask something?

[pseudo plinth]

Could you be a bit more specific about a "fintech role", do you simply mean working as a developer for a financial institution or are you referring to trading algorithms and stuff like that?

[pseudo plinth]

don't ask to ask

[agile meadow]

Ok np

[vapid jay]

No one can answer that because no one can predict what your abilities are and how your career will evolve. Wage development is affected by so many things, such as the employer, demand in the job market, the financial situation, what kind of managers and co-workers you have, and what happens in your civilian life.

If you can be proven to generate great financial value for your client, then the fees can be very high. It doesn’t matter what you do, as long as you do it so much better than others and then the customer is willing to pay.

[willow dock]

i wanted to build a career in automotive software engineering
how should i start
i am about to start my engineering first year next month in computer science

[gritty rivet]

Learn to code I guess? Python is a fine place to start

[fickle flax]

@willow dock yeah, for any programming language need to learn not the syntax but the core topiccs such as variables, variable scope, loops, arrays, hashmap and sets, functions and object orient programming. Once learn those, then can dive into your. career.. However, for cars it is mostly C or C# that is used not python. So you could choose to do C or C# instead of python.

However, it might be difficult to learn 2 programming language at same time , so it be better to learn a programming language that will be used in your school, some schools use matlab, however if. this is case i still encourage to learn some other programming language like the one mentioned above or one that the school is using since matlab its more like autocad which will be used in automotive. if your school is doing python. first year then learn that etc. Or if they do java etc

[lament ferry]

Hello I am Pranav

I want to learn how to make 3 dimensional shapes in Python please

oh sorry

I didn't realize this is career discussion

[sand geyser]

Hey, are there any software engineers in here?

[gritty rivet]

Don't ask to ask, just ask

[sand geyser]

I'm currently in my Junior year of college and pursuing a bachelor's in CS. I'm thinking about applying for a full time Software Engineering position during the summer and working through my senior semester if hired. Do ya'll think that path would work out in my favor?

[hushed hatch]

So I want to enroll in Harvard's web development courses, but the course endss on Dec 31, 2021, so next year, will they renew the course or will I never be able to do this course again?

[gritty rivet]

My guess would be that they'll do it again, but why not ask them?

[compact sigil]

Hi there, python community. I use python in my everyday life since 2016. Before python, I've learn and used some other PL, but Python is the one which really makes my life easier. I apply python to solve problems of my physics research (I am a physicist), which is mostly numerical computation/investigation, but I've also used it in simple models of ML with Scikit-learn. Two years ago, I've started doing some web scrapping and automating every day tasks related to data base access.
Why I am telling you this? After showing some of my code to a CS colleague, he recommended me applying for a free-lance job in Toptal. After reading the requirements, however, I thought my colleague were joking (though he swears he's not). However, I found the idea an interesting pursuit.
Would you give me some advice on this subject?

[next yoke]

Hi all. I am hoping to get some direction. I am currently a systems administrator but looking to career change into a python developer. It fell on my lap to solve a simple problem at work. I used "automate the boring stuff" from Udemy to write a script that is now in use in our office. How do I transition over to a full time python developer. I am solid with linux and github. I am US citizen. I have nothing tying me down so I can move or work from anywhere. Thanks!🙏

DM is wide open

[upper matrix]

Hi everyone, am I the asshole for quitting in commitment time? My situation is that I was working under 1 year of commitment but now 8 months in, I am not happy and want to quit. I dont want any drama so I just told them (managers) I wanted to pursue other field. Anyway they called me immature and unprofessional and selfish..

[gritty rivet]

If there's one specific thing to do, it's build your portfolio of projects

[gritty rivet]

Of course they are going to tell you that, and you've obviously burnt any bridge there, but that's just how it goes. Keep moving forward

[next yoke]

So that implies finding projects

I only got one from work out of desperation from our management

[near ocean]

Leaving during your probation isnt immature or professional or selfish
Its in any contract for a reason

[next yoke]

Not really foreseeing any more projects coming up. Only other than tutorial-hell ones lol

[near ocean]

Why should they be able to drop you without notice if you cant do the same?

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, since you're already a sysadmin, look for the GitHub repo that's called "Python for sysadmins" or something like that... Tons of examples of relevant libraries and how to use them. Might give you more inspiration, unless you're trying to go in a completely different direction

[upper matrix]

no it’s not in the contract. The project is a bit of a mess, people quitting every other month actually so they throw in big benefits and have every engineer do a verbal commitment when joining

[gritty rivet]

I think the trick is coming up with a problem that you're actually interested in solving. It takes real motivation to design and follow through on a project that's going to really get noticed

[next yoke]

Gotcha. I do have my eye on making an office calendar and integrate zoom meetings on it

Although management hasn't asked I can probably just try and do it?

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, honestly the best portfolio project is going to be one that anyone can use, not one that's narrowly designed for your current employer

[next yoke]

Ah ok. Thanks! That's a huge tip!🙏

[honest pivot]

If people keep quitting, there's probably some reason. Don't feel guilty for leaving a disaster. Nobody is going to look out for your interests but you.

[silk hatch]

People quitting is a sign that the people running the business are doing some things wrong

[honest pivot]

That's basically what I was hinting at

[fair kiln]

Does anyone have tips for a self taught developer that doesn’t went to college to get a job

Or anyway to help develop your skill level

[fickle flax]

@fair kiln there are lots of tutorials out there of self taught, but even for those who did go to school or bootcamp they still give same suggestinos for self taught.

For me personally, I learned basics of coding (loops, OOP etc) then focus on. what career path i want then learn the topics for those...

[fickle flax]

Right now, im self teaching for machine learning. I followed same principles when learning python practicing OOP etc and then building projects immediately to learn and then learn what i need to for ML, since ML is huge field i only focus on what i need to land an intern position so it same with web dev or auomation or robotics etc

[sand geyser]

So can anyone give some words of wisdom?

[smoky quest]

So you are trying to have a full time software engineering position as well as studying full time for your degree?
-> You are gonna have a bad time

[sand geyser]

Lol yea that kinda clicked a couple hours ago

[balmy mural]

I'm currently doing my last year of my bachelors. One person studying with me is working part time while finishing his degree(started job about a month ago), and he'll be joining the same company full time after he gets his degree. It's definitely possible, but his grades are suffering(still passing), since he can't really push out a deadline without having an effect on his job

Full time work + full time studying means you'll never be in class, I'd never personally do that

[smoky quest]

a part time job might be more realistic.
Note though part time swe jobs for folks still at school is pretty difficult to find. But if you can find one and you can handle the workload, then that's a possibility

[balmy mural]

Part time work with full time studying I'd also personally avoid due to the added workload unless you have to financially. Whether you enter the workforce now or 2-3 years later won't make much of a difference in the long run.

I did work part time for about 6 months, I did not enjoy the added workload and barely had free time

[sand geyser]

Yea I ain't really think too deep into it initially. I told myself maybe I could work with night classes, or even try for a remote position. But even then, the deadlines on both ends seem terrible to deal with

[sand geyser]

This is true

[smoky quest]

fyi, having a job now won't give you a specific advantage once you graduate

[sand geyser]

Honestly I just wanted to get my food in the door early

[smoky quest]

Then there are more productive things to do like focusing on your grades and projects

[sand geyser]

Foot*

[smoky quest]

if the job can be done by a student in junior year, then that's not a job in which you will grow past graduation

[sand geyser]

The financial aspect wouldn't be bad too

but yea you're definitely right

thanks for the reality check you guys

[smoky quest]

optimizing for the money you get as a student for 1-3 years won't pay off as much as optimizing for your career (and associated larger compensation)

[balmy mural]

Financial aspect is why I worked part time for a few months. Still would not recommend. I had the extra spending money, but I didn't have time to spend on my hobbies.

[sand geyser]

So outside of school then, just focus on the side projects?

[balmy mural]

I'd say focus on projects, look into contributing on open source projects, and networking with people in the industry (probably more relevant when you start uni, but not sure how education system works where you're from)

[smoky quest]

• Try different areas: robotics, webdev, backend, data engineering, video processing, make games or some mobile app... Explore and learn about them! It will not only deepen your knowledge but also help you understand better what you like or what you dislike.
• Standard classes cover only ~20h for a single topic. That's barely enough. So feel free to go deeper into them, have side projects about them
• Do side projects. It will help you understand better the tools of the trade (git, testing, etc.)

You can also try to participate in open source projects. That can help get the attention of some employers, being part of a community and give you something to talk about when looking for a job

[smoky quest]

The most successful people I have met are the ones who not only attended the classes but also went beyond and had side projects. There is a clear and net difference between people who just follow along and the ones who go further

[sand geyser]

Everything is noted. Thank ya'll so much

[fickle flax]

@sand geyser also can try machine learning too if interesed in that field, try tech with tim ml course if interested

[dim jay]

Guys, it is possible to learn the math needed for Data Science (Calculus, Linear Algebra, Statistics, and Probability) only with videos? I know that books are the right way, but there's a lot of unnecessary information that I will probably not use. And I do not want to master math, just want the necessary to work with Data Science and its fields (ML, AI, Data Engineering).

[smoky quest]

Unless by video you mean something like video class which covers the same topics than the books, then probably not

random bits and pieces over random youtube videos don't make for an education

[dim jay]

I do not say Youtube, but video courses

[smoky quest]

And when you are the stage of learning something, I doubt you have a clear idea of what you will need or not 🙂

[dim jay]

That's exactly my problem right now hahaha

[smoky quest]

It's less about the format (video, books...) and more about the content and learning plan

What works best is typically a mix.

[dim jay]

I see

I mean, I know it's impossible to use ALL THE MATH into DS

[shadow moss]

Most jobs will want the degree to prove it

[covert vector]

which does more programming electrical engineer or computer engineer

[smoky quest]

computer engineer

[dim jay]

I think about start a company to do some freelancing jobs. They might not respect a guy with no degree, but they will respect a company.

[covert vector]

is computer engineer good job

[smoky quest]

yes

[covert vector]

r u computer engineer

[smoky quest]

no

[covert vector]

do u want to become computer engineer

[smoky quest]

no

[summer fjord]

I started to learn Python, would it be enough to get me job ?

[smoky quest]

no

[dim jay]

No

[smoky quest]

take a look at https://roadmap.sh/

[summer fjord]

Then whats should be done with python ?

[covert vector]

what do u want to become

[fickle flax]

@dim jay it depends on learning style but as you said,

[dim jay]

You need SQL, NoSQL, Data Structures, Algorithms, Git, and a little of experience in Cloud Plataforms

[smoky quest]

I am more into product and technical leadership

[covert vector]

nice

[summer fjord]

I dream to become a software enginner or Application developer.

[fickle flax]

@dim jay hey, im on same boat as you, i would say, for learning math and stats, the best approach is dive into ML and then learn the algo behind that and thats the math you need to learn. Learning calculus can take forever because so much to learn same with stats and linear. Also, you can still get a job as a DS without a degree, by means of projects and clients.

the stats and math you learn while learning ML, and can look at youtube etc

[dim jay]

Yeah! That's what I want to do!

[summer fjord]

It sounds like it will take a lifetime to learn all of this

[fickle flax]

yeah , there is a DS who actually is self taugh, he has youtube channel its Krish Naik, he. teaches professional side

actually this can take as little as little as 3 months. to learn @summer fjord with good time mangagement not to master but basics to apply for entry positions

[dim jay]

Just keep calm and be patient

[summer fjord]

But learning Python isnt waste of time right ?

[dim jay]

Like, you should never try to "Master" anything, because you won't. And also, you will never use everything of some topic

[fickle flax]

yes

[summer fjord]

Thanks for such assurance 😊 such words really helps to keep going

[fickle flax]

Avi, as others said focus on what career path you want to take, is. that Data science, or front end or backend or automation etc, depending on that you can narrow it down what to learn to have minumum to land a job

[summer fjord]

Machine learning, I would like to see myself coding for micro processor and all. I dont know yet where would i land but thats what I imagine

[shadow moss]

As long as you understand the challenges, then rock on

[fickle flax]

@summer fjord oh okay, i not too sure about that since microprocessor is bit different more in assembly language or C language. Can look at youtube or guides on goole or can ask here to get more info.

[summer fjord]

Yeah me too not sure. For now my plan is I will learn Python and then something else to compliment python knowledge which will land me a job in a year or so🤒

[fickle flax]

oh ok,i would. say it good to have a plan than to just hope in a year to land a job. Because common mistake is staying in tutorial-train, or learning so many languages and stacks etc.

[summer fjord]

Whats ur plan?

[fickle flax]

im trying to land a Data scientist role as someone self taught, so i focus on just. the basics of ML
this is learning basics algos for supervised and unsupervised and deep learning. So in total 6 algos , linear regression, K classifiers and SVM then RNN CNN and NN, I also study the math behind. it thats how i learn the stats and math, and then i learn about cleaning data such as feature engineering, explority data anayslis, text processing techniques for NLP which is tied with deep learning and then normalization, standarization and then learning just. how to deploy models and also show visualizations.

so all of this does sound a lot but it actually goes by fast if really interested and it very small just to land intern posiiton or entry.

so far its been 1 month since i learning all of this, right now im in stage to buidling projects and applying what i. learn to put on resume

[summer fjord]

Yeah that sounds like a full fledged 4yrs of engineering degree

[fickle flax]

it does, but thats because it in one big paragraph if were to format it woubd like 6 items and actually surprising this content is actually just learnign in 3 months

but yeah as others said above, focus on specific career path and for any programmign language need to learn not the syntax but the core fundamentals of programming and then dive into field you want to learn

[summer fjord]

I am not sure if I would be able to learn python alone in 3 months. While u are so confident to learn all of these.
I should reconsider my pace of learning 😂

[fickle flax]

thats okay, everyone starts small, this is because i already have. experience in software so much easier to catch up but everyone different, and for pyhon to learn in 3 months it just all you need really is

-variables/functions
-OOP
-arrays
- hashmap and sets
-scopes
-loops``` thats all really then you learned the important parts and can trasnfer to other languages

[balmy mural]

You don't need everything, but a lot fo what you do need, relies on knowing past things. I don't really use anything directly from first year calculus, but that was building blocks for understanding what I did need to learn.

[summer fjord]

I have learnt Variables, lists,dict,loops...Yesterday I finished learning about break and continue. 🤔

[dim jay]

Sure, that's what I mean: You should "master" the FUNDAMENTALS

[balmy mural]

I took the reverse of this. Currently doing my final year in computer science and statistics, and doing my postgraduate in either pure statistics, or data science(university is using the word since it's a buzz word, but it's basically a mix between CS and statistics modules). There isn't really a 'right' wayt to learn, but I prefer learning building blocks first.

[dim jay]

If you know high-school math (Algebra 1 and 2, Trigonometry, Geometry, Statistics and Probability) and the fundamentals of calculus and linear algebra, I think you are fine right?

[fickle flax]

oh thats cool, yeah its interetsing different learning styles and path

[balmy mural]

Depends on what you'd classify as fundamentals. Elementary Linear Algebra was still a full year course at uni, and that's just the fundamentals imo, so that would be enough imo

If however you think just the basics of matrix theory is the fundamentals, it might be enough to learn new things on the go, but once again that depends on where you draw the line of where fundamental ends, lol

[dim jay]

I just do not to learn something that I will not use in a practical way

Like, learning some math that I will never use to build ML models.

[balmy mural]

Have a look at "The Elements of Statistical Learning", skip straight to chapter 3, if you're able to at least follow along and make sense of the math in all of the chapter up to maybe 3.3, you should be fine and can probably learn anything else you need on the go, but a lot of it assumes you know the fundamentals, so you won't be using it, but you should understand it. One of my current lecturers regularly says something along these lines:
Anyone can click a button to build a model, but statisticians know why they chose the model, know what to change on the model, and understand the underlying concepts of the model.

[smoky quest]

maybe try to go the other way around? Start with the ML part and then dive to the related math as required?

[noble oriole]

Is there any value in learning docker containers as a software developer?

[noble oriole]

It’s up to you, really. If you want to build your own models, optimize and train models from scratch. You need the math.

If you just want to use the trained models as a developer, you don’t need the math

Just use services already avaliable like AWS sage maker

[fickle flax]

dockers i would say are mostly for backend dev roles and Data science

[smoky quest]

I would say that every developer should know about it

[noble oriole]

I would recommend at least learn the basics behind the curtains because you need to tune hyper-parameters and without understanding how the models work, you’ll be completely blind

[fluid aspen]

Hello. Wann'a ask if python is used in Software development/enginnering.

[smoky quest]

yes

[polar compass]

hello. i need help. i am so suck at building logics in coding. even if i do, when i reach specific step, i suddenly don't know what im doing or i cant remember/understand the meaning of previous steps. it really shatters my confidence. i'm currently a data science senior, but still, i code like shit

[smoky quest]

Practice makes perfect.
There are a few books about DSA or website you can use to practice like codingame

[polar compass]

i cant really solve easy problems too. i have ideas but cant seem to translate my thoughts into code. how frustrating! 😩

[smoky quest]

That's the point of practicing. To work on overcoming these problems

As you get stuck with them, go the appropriate channels like #algos-and-data-structs to seek guidance

Over time, you will be able to do them with less and less help.
But without practice, nothing will change

[surreal yew]

what's a plausible timeframe to go from a reasonably competent but very much unspectacular hobbyist to someone who is actually hireable?

to elaborate: i've been coding as a hobby for several years at this point, but i have only really worked on a random assortment of personal projects that i never put out publicly since i never really intended for it to ever go beyond a hobby. however, a few things lately made me seriously reconsider my current career plans (which are unrelated to cs), so i'm now thinking of putting in the effort to polish my skills and eventually find myself a dev job

i am more or less aware that my main goals if i want to do that are a) pick up some more in-depth knowledge in a specific area b) contribute to open source projects to help unlearn any bad coding habits that i might have picked up in years of unsupervised learning, and c) polish my pre-existing projects and build some new ones to help build a portfolio, but i am wondering whether something like a year could be a reasonable amount of time to get all that done?

[gray anvil]

what are you doing at the moment? is this a career transition for you?

[surreal yew]

i am still a university student, currently doing a masters in an unrelated field (still stem, but only a soft science). my plan was to stay in academia afterwards, however, i have become really disillusioned with that, and the non-academic opportunities in my field don't interest me much at all, hence why i am just considering doing a complete 180

[vapid jay]

@surreal yew so, I actually just joined the python community today, but one year is a very long time. the time and effort you put into a project or two will definitely a go a long way.

as far as grad school goes, all my TAs have told me it's soul-sucking work but the payoff is worth it

help

[karmic steeple]

@vapid jay The name is wrong

You wrote "hashit" instead of "harshit".

[vapid jay]

aah

thanks@karmic steeple

[gritty rivet]

Your TAs have to believe its worth it, in order to keep going. They are paid beans. Ask them what they think in 10 years. They don't have a viable career in academia yet, and statically the odds are significant that most of them never will.

Profs may tell you it's worth it to, but they are the lucky few who made it. I'm not saying don't, I'm just saying it's complicated.

[vapid jay]

you are correct. i was oversimplifying things

[vast shoal]

Selection bias.

Or, survivor bias, maybe?

Or both.

[vapid jay]

I graduated in 2020 btw

[honest pivot]

I was a postdoc for 6 years, in the end it was impossible to get a tenure track job. Now doing software development. I wouldn't say it's not worth it, but if you're really hoping to be in academia permanently, it's very very unlikely to happen.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @cerulean sable until <t:1632488263:f> (9 minutes and 58 seconds) (reason: discord_emojis rule: sent 22 emojis in 10s).

[warped jackal]

Hello, I am new here. I would like to ask for advice where to start learning Django. Can someone recommend a chat group where we could learn together?

[gritty rivet]

#web-development maybe

[elder beacon]

So I got asked (what I figured out after the interview) to implement a Trie in a coding interview I had today for a junior software engineer position. To my knowledge this is one of the more difficult questions and so would I be right in assuming that I wouldn't be expected to solve it?
I tried my best and communicated my thought process which eventually led me to conclude I should use some sort of a Tree but wasn't actually able to code the question. Idk shit was hard.

[shrewd rock]

Hello there. I am a newbie in programming and I have decided to go for Machine Learning with Python. Do you have any advice for me?

[honest pivot]

It's anyone's guess exactly what the hiring manager is looking for. Maybe they're demanding perfection. Or maybe they want to see how you reason through a problem you don't immediately know the answer to, including how you interact with others about how to solve the problem. If it were me, I'd be more interested in the latter.

[humble kelp]

Is internship at a company like amazon better than a job at a company like IBM?

[icy berry]

yes

oh you said job

[humble kelp]

But what about job security? It's not sure if I will be getting the job at amazon. It's just internship

[icy berry]

job is more secure, internship at amazon will get you a better job in the future, but its more unsafe

[humble kelp]

and IBM is a nice company too ig

[agile charm]

for freshers internships are great

[humble kelp]

I will still have to do internship at IBM as well, but it will be converted to a full time offer once I finish uni

[icy berry]

then you pick the route that you feel confirmable with

[humble kelp]

As early as you want and have good enough skills.

[icy berry]

i would pick the IBM one due to the safety in it. but thats me. i dont know how you feel

[humble kelp]

Oh btw does the job profile matter when changing companies? Like I am getting a role of technical team lead in a company which is in fortune 500, and in IBM it will be 2 roles lower. Gosh it's so confusing, I am sorry if I seem like I am trying to flex, I really want some advice.

[icy berry]

no, the title matters

if your future company will not give you a raise, ask for a better title

[humble kelp]

You can keep applying honestly to different company, go to career's page and find a few. or go to job pages

[humble kelp]

Oh can I DM you for just a quick doubt, it's related to pay and like I don't want to tell it here

[icy berry]

yes

really? did they fill all positions?

right, those positions are hard to fill

discord probably pays to low for anyone to move

right.. i already have that 😄

[fickle flax]

@shrewd rock i recommend watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csG_qfOTvxw&t=2s

he is a self-taught data scientist too, his advice really helped me too. As for the math , linear and calculus what to learn,
first want to build ML and learn the math behind and thats the math you need to learn. As for stats same person shows what to know at
11:30 timestamp in this video below--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9AK1YKRoLg&t=375s

[shrewd rock]

Thanks

[night abyss]

so is having an associate degree enough to be a software dev?

[fickle flax]

Software dev is a bit different from other careers in that dont really need background if have work experience, so whether college or self taught etc as long can show can do the work , background is not really important. This is evident since see small children and teenagers work as software dev

[smoky quest]

bs is much better, but associate can do if no choice, although more difficult

[ocean ledge]

there are random family owned businesses out there who want a "web-dev" for 40k a year who wouldn't mind those credentials as long as you are okay with the price

in theory, there are no requirements for a software dev-- in practice, if you're thinking of the "dev life" that many people desire, unless you have some incredible skills, not having at least a bachelors is gonna cost ya

[vapid jay]

any ideas what software could be valuable written in py?

[smoky quest]

pretty much anything can be written in python. Thus anything someone is willing to pay for or fund

[vapid jay]

im literally out of ideas i could code

[smoky quest]

It's a bit open ended as a question.
There are a few lists:

• https://github.com/karan/Projects
• https://github.com/florinpop17/app-ideas

Writing your own raytracer can be fun

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[deft star]

yo

[upper spindle]

Are the IBM online certification programs for data science legit?
College dropout here. My dad has been teaching me how to code for a year, but I would like to get a certification or two for data science and web development for the extra training and to make myself more attractive to employers.

Or any online certification programs that you guys can recommend?

[next yoke]

Is data science even real? Looks like a job title made up by people in marketing departments.

"Master of the custodial arts"

[balmy mural]

Data science is very real, we even have a channel specifically for it #data-science-and-ml

[next yoke]

Pog

[sour tartan]

it isn't science, but it's a real field

[next yoke]

That's what I meant; how "scientific" is this... But yeah I guess.

[sour tartan]

you can lump it in with computer science, political science, ....

[next yoke]

Lol true

[gritty rivet]

I've been looking into one for data engineering, associated with IBM and Purdue U but run by SimpliLearn... The reviews seem OK I guess

My friend did the full time data science boot camp from Metis... WAY more expensive but covers a lot. Took him a while to find a job after but he's doing really well now

[smoky quest]

What makes it's not worthy of the word science?

[sour tartan]

it has nothing to do with the scientific method

[smoky quest]

In terms of what?
There are methods to perform experiments and validate the outcomes

There are techniques associated with deduction or induction as well

[next yoke]

Falsifiable

[smoky quest]

Can you expand on it? I fail to see why one would define science by falsifiable. Science isn't necessarily defined by certainty

[dry sapphire]

it's a philosophy of science thing

there's a pretty strong and well accepted argument that falsifiability is the defining characteristic of scientific propositions

[smoky quest]

That doesn't seem to match with what one can read on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science

The definition found online of science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
Sounds to me it's more about the systemic process than the actual falsifiability.

[dry sapphire]

we can discuss this in OT if you want

[smoky quest]

tbh, I don't really care. I am more interested in understanding if people are trying to disregard data science because they dislike it and try to disregard it with a pedantic proposition or if there is a real argument.
Overall, going into pedantry is going to confuse more the audience of this channel than anything

From a pragmatic pov, data science is a science and a job. Not much beyond that other than arguments which would belong to some general channel

[dry sapphire]

data science is about as much science as social sciences. it's clearly not a hard science in its entirety, except insofar as it incorporates elements thereof, just like many other disciplines.

[harsh crane]

hey guys

[dry sapphire]

there can be no scientific proposition which is not falsifiable, because that means it inherently cannot be disproven, and is therefore dogma.

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to the wikipedia article?

[dry sapphire]

what?

I mean, if you really disagree, go read up on the philosophy of science; I think that you'll find that what I have said is largely correct.

on a more general note, though, I don't really see what the problem is with data science not being a science in that sense, considering a really big part of its real world applicability is domain knowledge

[smoky quest]

I pointed out the definition from the dictionary of the word science along with the wikipedia page about data science which also links to research papers and other arguments in favor (and some resistance to it). None of which mention any falsifiability.
So am a bit confused at that rebuttal

[dry sapphire]

those are layperson's definitions (which are not necessarily any more or less correct)

but in the context of the philosophy of science (as I highlighted earlier), falsifiability is an important criterion. this is why I said data science is as much science as the social sciences.

[smoky quest]

would you consider statistics as a social science as well?

[dry sapphire]

if you mean statistical theory, that would be pretty clearly mathematical knowledge

[smoky quest]

that's the same mathematical basis than data science

some people are even arguing that data science is pretty much statistics

[harsh crane]

In coding interviews, if the job role is a python developer, can I use python as the language to do the coding problem?

[dry sapphire]

well, at least where I'm from, being a data scientist (which, by definition, is a practitioner of data science), is quite distinct from being a pure statistician

[smoky quest]

definitely! Most interviews will let you use the language you are the most comfortable with, even if they are hiring for a different one

[dry sapphire]

in two ways, in particular: there is a lot less research into, for example, developing new statistical methods, in favour of application, and there is a strong focus on domain knowledge.

[dry sapphire]

it depends; you should ask the company. I've seen places where they only want you to use one specific language (few and far between), but most, if they're using some generic platform like Codility, will give you (effectively) free choice of language

and Python is extremely common, so (that said, some platforms are still on like 3.6 🥴)

[dry sapphire]

furthermore, depending on the type of data scientist you are, you may need to know other parts of mathematics (graph theory and linear algebra are pretty big ones, I'd say)

I would say that arguing that data science is statistics is pretty reductive

[vapid jay]

hey guys

[smoky quest]

Sounds like some people do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science#Relationship_to_statistics

[dry sapphire]

I think you quoted the wrong thing, and I don't deny that some people think that?

@honest pivot you're a postdoc right

what did you do, if you don't mind sharing?

[honest pivot]

Data science is about making predictive models. Although it's rather pedantic to bring up Popperism, I think it is falsifiable.

[smoky quest]

yeah wrong line.
Either way, so far I don't see a reason to say data science is not a science. The method is there and it is as rigorous as other areas considered as scientific.

[dry sapphire]

okay, you do you then

[smoky quest]

welcome to the Internet \0/

[dry sapphire]

what is "it"

[harsh crane]

thanks, @dry sapphire @smoky quest

[dry sapphire]

yw 👋 atb for your interview 🙂

[honest pivot]

I'm not a postdoc anymore, but I did theoretical physics. Specifically the more mathematical kind that philosophy of science people love to attack with pedantry. 🙂

[harsh crane]

😦 i have done it

[dry sapphire]

good thing I'm not one of those 🙏

[harsh crane]

I used python, though the company doesn't seem to be one at all

[honest pivot]

Data science

[harsh crane]

they have no office too, but I just did to learn anything

[smoky quest]

I always recommend to do the first few interviews with companies you don't care about. So that you get back on the horse / get experience for interviews but don't care if you screw up

[dry sapphire]

sometimes, but not by definition IME

[harsh crane]

yeah that's why i did it
do you have any way that I can learn to ace these questions? I have no experience in doing them, I can only code in python

[smoky quest]

leetcode

[dry sapphire]

I think this is always a good thing; you gather information and get to practice (and can also identify red flags)

[vapid jay]

hey all! me and @thick flume are planning on creating a triple a game , and we are just 15 year olds who have some basic knowledge in python . What are the things we should learn and experience in order to create a triple a game?

[harsh crane]

so I'll start right into doing it rather than reading books?

[dry sapphire]

depends. for leetcode-ish questions, you should do leetcode.

however, there's a significant number of interviews in which you may be asked things like "design a service to do x", or "what are the tradeoffs when choosing a y for your application"

[smoky quest]

that doesn't mean much.
The main thing is: make a plan

What do you need to be successful ? Make a list and go through it

that may be books or leetcode or polishing up your resume or whatever. You know best and better than us what works for you or what you need

[dry sapphire]

which is why...go for a ton of interviews.

[harsh crane]

yeah
thanks for the advice guys

[dry sapphire]

so you can better understand what people hiring for the roles you're considering are looking for

[harsh crane]

but coding interview questions are important

[smoky quest]

you need to succeed at every step to not spook them

[dry sapphire]

if you have such a stage, sure

[smoky quest]

As an employer, it's safer to pass on a maybe great candidate than hire a potentially problematic person

[harsh crane]

I think having an employee who can solve interview questions can help the company save a ton of resources (computation/time )

[smoky quest]

it's more than that:

• Can they communicate their value appropriately (resume, interviews...)
• Behavioral questions during interviews
• Technical questions
• How would they fit with the team/culture/company
• ...

[dry sapphire]

at least 80% of the leetcode-ish questions I have been asked in interviews were useless af IME

[smoky quest]

Think about it as dating. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't mean someone is bad. It just mean they were not a good fit

[dry sapphire]

the only point, IMO, is to ask people an easy question (on their own time) to weed out people who totally can't code

[harsh crane]

i was applying for an internship and the guy told me to sum the numbers on each diagonal

[honest pivot]

The kind of code expected for Leetcode solutions had better be heavily commented if it's going to exist in a professional codebase.

[harsh crane]

and I had no experience with these questions, and It was a internship, not even a junior role

I think I was a good fit to what the company needs to do (the actual role + no experience), but it turned out bad

[smoky quest]

lots of students prepare for internships interviews

[smoky quest]

It's a tough lesson but you can be the greatest person in the world, but if you are unable to express it, it's useless.
That's why communication is a much underrated skill for engineers

[open shuttle]

I am going to start OOPS today...any suggestions?

[harsh crane]

what does communication have to do with the coding interview questions?

[smoky quest]

what's that?

[dry sapphire]

if it's an in-person thing (not like Leetcode or something), a big part of the interview is seeing how you talk through your thought process

[open shuttle]

Object oriented programming

[smoky quest]

The interviewer got > 30 resumes from students but only has room for one. The one they will hire is the one which is established as the best one

Being able to communicate your worth is part of it

[harsh crane]

yeah you guys are right
I'll start to learn to do the interview questions and perhaps take a course on communiation

[smoky quest]

Think about your class. From the outside, you all look the same, have the same projects and classes. How do I pick one?

It's the one who can answer best my questions and make me feel confident about their abilities

Or stands out from the rest due to projects or otherwise

[harsh crane]

thanks for the advice!

[smoky quest]

Np. There is even some human psychology! You don't want to sound desperate for instance

It's very much a sales job (at a smaller scale)

[honest pivot]

Even just being friendly and genuine is important. I'm hiring someone to work with every day, not someone who will sit alone and solve logic puzzles.

[dry sapphire]

not to say that there aren't roles for people who love to sit alone and solve logic puzzles

[honest pivot]

Not if they can't explain their solutions to other people, or won't seek out discussion with other people when stuck, no.

[hallow hatch]

How does one go about developing these teamwork skills? I'm in an environment with no other developers. And open source contribution feels a bit detached you know

[smoky quest]

Unfortunately, they would also end up with the short end of the stick

[smoky quest]

Teamwork in a team of one is a non-starter.
But you can look for collaboration across teams or groups

[hallow hatch]

Is there a place to collaborate around here? The game jams look interesting but I'm not at all knowledgeable in the subject

[dry sapphire]

which is a separate point, and "friendly and genuine" vs "likes to do work by themselves" is a false dichotomy, too

[smoky quest]

Some of the issues with the latter is it's tough to promote and reward.
They are also at the mercy of having a great manager. A not so great manager would just use them up

[dry sapphire]

do you work remotely?

[smoky quest]

I do

so do the teams I manage or collaborate with

[dry sapphire]

we do too, and communicate when necessary (for work purposes), but fundamentally we're here to solve a professional problem (as opposed to socialising), and I think everything goes fine

[smoky quest]

Have you been in some promotion meetings across teams?

[dry sapphire]

our structure isn't really like that? so nope

[smoky quest]

so who gets the budget to distribute across teams? Who review the pitches for promotions?

[dry sapphire]

for the former, consultancy, so it doesn't work that way. for the latter...

long story short, everyone has a performance partner (who is not your supervisor). you're also encouraged to gather feedback from multiple individuals, so not just the client and people you work with on a daily basis (though those would be the focus for technical performance), but also others you interact with @ the company (e.g. during lunch n' learns, seminars, pairing on interviewing, etc.)

the performance partner meets with you to discuss your goals and performance, and then they communicate with a committee of regional leadership.

there is a strong focus on a well-rounded appraisal not just done by the person nominally supervising you.

[smoky quest]

ok I guess you get a free pass then.
But for instance, look at https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ic5_staff_software_engineer.html
As the engineers grow in an organization, their area of influence is expected to grow and cross boundaries. Which means people who have the largest impact across the org get the most reward.
On the other hand, getting a budget for rewarding and promoting teams is always too short. Which means some people get nothing.

Which means that while people who can go very deep in their field can be great, they are also limiting their own growth as it doesn't align with the incentives

[smoky quest]

how do the performance partner normalize the outcomes across all the consultants?

[dry sapphire]

it's the other way, actually; the ability to mentor junior consultants is a big part of promotion criteria

also, organisational impact (in terms of, for example, sharing knowledge) is very important

[dry sapphire]

they don't do it. the committee above them does.

[smoky quest]

wouldn't that go counter to the case we were describing?

[smoky quest]

so most likely the committee will reward the folks they hear the most about

[dry sapphire]

I suppose it depends on how you do it?

[hallow hatch]

How long have you two been in the field?

[smoky quest]

way too long

[dry sapphire]

for example, I don't like pairing, and I much prefer programming alone, but I also spend time mentoring junior engineers (I also like giving talks)

[smoky quest]

we were talking about the case about someone who would be able to solve puzzles but would stay alone in their corner

[dry sapphire]

but the actual work of implementing stuff...leave me alone in my corner

[smoky quest]

so I take it as someone who can go pretty deep but doesn't play well with others

[dry sapphire]

hm I interpreted it differently

[astral ermine]

As I'm finishing my Masters degree (geared towards data science), would it be advisable that I gain experience at a Business Analyst role that I have been offered, or focus in building a portfolio for the remainder of the semester?

[smoky quest]

There is more to implementing though. Someone needs to coordinate, plan, review the architecture, keep the project on track, etc.

[dry sapphire]

and I also disagree with the idea that if you do that then you're not friendly etc.

[hallow hatch]

I've heard once you've got experience, jobs are much easier to come by. Does that ring true?

[smoky quest]

that might explain a few things. Like the data science thing earlier :p

[dry sapphire]

yeah, of course, and for those we have architecture design discussions, regular sprint planning, retros, etc.

[smoky quest]

it depends. There is always a next stage.

[dry sapphire]

I guess what I'm really saying here is that the things that can be done alone, I like to do alone, without people micromanaging me or taking up my time with (what I see as) specious conversation, because I'm fundamentally here to work, not socialise

[smoky quest]

I did meet people who would be technically deep but wouldn't care for these

[dry sapphire]

which is the person you call when you need to squeeze 1ms out of a hot loop, but otherwise, I agree; not good to work with, because we all should agree on the big picture

[dry sapphire]

3 years-ish? p new

[hallow hatch]

Yeah I get it. Just hopes it gets a little easier as time goes on. I'm more in line with @dry sapphire's work ethic, let me alone to do my thing. Lots of stress trying to set myself up for the future

[dry sapphire]

my general POV is: we have the same idea of what and why we want to do something, but how and where (and to some extent, when) is left up to the individual

[smoky quest]

Right. But that's a different thing. It's about visibility and ownership

[hallow hatch]

Did your education prepare you well?

[dry sapphire]

I'm not a CS graduate (law degree)

though I am looking @ taking a Master's next year, if everything goes well 🙂

[hallow hatch]

👀

Why didn't ya head down the lawyer path?

[smoky quest]

I hate to micromanage people.
But it mostly comes down to (I know I am repeating myself) to visibility and ownership.
You need to demonstrate you have everything under control and have the risks understood and accounted for. If you do, any good manager will be more than happy to delegate things to you

[dry sapphire]

$$, trashy culture, boring work, I love coding

[dry sapphire]

this is true. the one who gets hired/promoted/whatever is not the one who is the best, but the one who appears the best. good companies will put into place processes to ensure the gap between the two is small, but still...

[astral ermine]

I'm finishing up a MS in Computer Information Systems and Business Analytics. My predicament is lack of experience. I see that is not the case for you, so it would definitely be advisable.

[dry sapphire]

and to answer your earlier question, there have definitely been cases where I was rejected @ the resume screen stage because I lacked a CS degree

[smoky quest]

A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.
Ideally it's meritocratic and based on outcome driven scales. Which is why I linked to some career ladder like https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ic5_staff_software_engineer.html

[dry sapphire]

for more or less every technical test/interview I've gone through, I've done p well, but shrugs that's life

[hallow hatch]

Exact same situation for me. Lots of failed internship applications, but I have tons of projects and spend a good 90% of my free time learning / coding.

[smoky quest]

Also the larger the organization, the more outlandish it can become

[dry sapphire]

what I mean is more like...you make your decisions based on what information is available to you, right?

[smoky quest]

Right but that's not the problem. The problem is whether or not you have done your homeworks. I see too many engineers doing random shit in hope it works out

[dry sapphire]

wait, sorry, what is the relevance?

[smoky quest]

The relevance is about good engineers vs engineers who appear good

[astral ermine]

Yeah, I'm debating whether to accept a business analyst position just to put something on my resume to later try for data science.
I genuinely like finding patterns in data, but I don't want to be stuck as an Excel monkey

I like building things too

[dry sapphire]

IMO...if you wanna do something, do it right

[hallow hatch]

Yeah, it's rough because once you graduate you get to go into the real world. And unless you got money to chase your dreams it's time to pay those loans.

[dry sapphire]

big project right now involves refactoring a ton of legacy code and I go between 😔 and 😠 every day

[dry sapphire]

the really nice thing about my country is that (undergraduate) education is relatively cheap

[astral ermine]

I had almost forgotten about my loans 🤣

[smoky quest]

exactly. Note also that managers need a track of record for engineers to promote. There are also tight budget constraints.
So an engineers really need to deserve it or make their managers they do

[dry sapphire]

or just change jobs 🙂 sad truth

[hallow hatch]

Lucky man, I'm gonna be coming out 40k in the hole. Just praying I can get a foot in to a real career. Definitely don't want to be burger flipping till I die, double shifts you know

[smoky quest]

Don't settle. You may get closer to it than you think

[dry sapphire]

that's rough. a full degree (if we're talking just tuition) costs maybe 30k USD here

[smoky quest]

sometimes that's the right move, indeed

[hallow hatch]

Not so different

[dry sapphire]

and I love learning new things so changing stacks is always a great experience (my current place uses Kotlin and it's awesome to work with)

[hallow hatch]

Education is overpriced all over the US unfortunately. And it's gold season because all our parents told us college was the path. Sadly they're not wrong either 😆

[astral ermine]

Oh not because it's a small amount. I forgot purely because I've been distracted with job hunt anxiety to pay for rent.

I'm sorry you're in the hole as well. I worked at Target and they had a tendency to understaff the place so I would run around the entire store trying to do 3 peoples worth of labor.

[dry sapphire]

the thing is that it's also very common to live with your parents till you get married here, so no rent concerns

btw anyone studying/studied in California? two of the universities I wanna go to are there

[hallow hatch]

Yeah man retail was awful. I also worked early morning shifts at target, but it was a temp position. Had me come in at 4am every day to shuffle boxes and sometimes help stock

[smoky quest]

A good place should also have some growth available for you.
Motivation is described as the combination of:

• Autonomy
• Mastery
• Purpose

[smoky quest]

I know people there

[smoky quest]

A lot of software engineers don't realize how work can be tough outside of tech

[dry sapphire]

being a SWE in a non-sweatshop is an extremely privileged thing

[smoky quest]

people complained about the types of free sushi being served...

[dry sapphire]

as an aside, I always found it strangely ironic that it's usually the people who get paid the most who also have the best medical insurance 🥴

[astral ermine]

I've seen how the people who work in the back are pushed. Many of them used their 15 minute breaks just to smoke cigarettes lol. It's rough

[hallow hatch]

My dad is a devops engineer, had to get a job at Toys R US a long while back. You should have seen his reaction to the paycheck ahahah

[astral ermine]

Good point

[smoky quest]

same shit at walmart between walmart labs and the regular employees

[astral ermine]

I've been without medical insurance ever since I arrived to the States.

[hallow hatch]

Not just cigarettes my friend! Same in every kitchen I've worked in. Some really sad stories. I worked with an all immigrant crew at Chick-Fil-a. And I used to think we had it bad

[astral ermine]

Lol this is why I never expect service with a smile.

[hallow hatch]

Do you have projects on your resume? I'm not really sure what goes on in Data Analytics

[smoky quest]

kaggle stuff for instance

[astral ermine]

I have my GitHub hyperlinked on my resume but I don't explicitly mention my projects on my resume. Maybe I should.

[dry sapphire]

literally not one person has ever cared about my GitHub or Stack Overflow 😔 might be different where you are though

[smoky quest]

you should. When a company receives hundreds of resumes, they won't individually click on github profiles and fish for good stuff

[hallow hatch]

I always do, some of the ones I find the coolest at the time. I've heard you're supposed to put relevant technologies on there, but it's not like I have a project for every company's tech stack

[astral ermine]

Haven't received any feedback on it so maybe no ones taken a look. I'd be happy to look at your GitHub if you're willing to share. For sure I could learn a lot.

@smoky quest Yeah, I'll take your advice and update my resume. Thank you

[dry sapphire]

if you're applying to places you really want, you should tailor your resume accordingly

[hallow hatch]

Should I whip something up specifically for them?

[dry sapphire]

when I'm done-ish with my parser, for sure (it's probz the biggest thing I've ever worked on)

[smoky quest]

Think about it as a funnel. Github won't be checked when the resume is received. But specific links may be checked in the next stages of the pipeline

[dry sapphire]

like...highlight the things in your resume that match the JD; in many cases, the first person who looks @ your resume will be non-technical; they can't tell Java from JavaScript

[hallow hatch]

Let me give it a look too. Nobody checks my stuff either ahahah

[smoky quest]

that's not necessarily true. The first person you talk to is not necessarily the first person looking at your resume

[hallow hatch]

I think my problem may be the variety of projects I have then. I will try to work on a larger variety

[smoky quest]

for instance, here, the hiring managers would flag the resumes the recruiter needs to talk to

[smoky quest]

I typically recommend to have a master resume with everything. And then tailor a resume for each job application or at the very least profile

[hallow hatch]

Would I send in both versions of the resume?

[smoky quest]

Whatever the company cares about

The main thing is to avoid weird ass formats the ATS can't parse (like multiple columns formats)

[dry sapphire]

IME it is generally that way here, based on my own/others' experiences (though there are defo cases where hiring managers get first cut)

[hallow hatch]

Are you currently working on any projects?

[smoky quest]

I am always working on some projects. That's why my employer pay me :p

[hallow hatch]

Fair enough 😅

[smoky quest]

I am more in the product and technical leadership. So that can mean a lot of things

[hallow hatch]

So you run teams or something? Do you still write code?

[smoky quest]

yeah something like that. I do write code but more on the side to keep it fresh for my next startup

But I am accountable for some architectural and technical decisions

[hallow hatch]

I see, that makes sense. It seems that the longer you're working the more you move away from grunt work ahahah

[smoky quest]

yeah. No matter how smart I think I am, I can't compete with 20 smart engineers

And these 20 smart engineers can benefit from my experience and the mistakes I have made

[hallow hatch]

I feel that way as well. No matter how much you learn, or how much you sharpen your skillset, there's many out there leagues above. Especially online. Indefinite mediocrity

[dry sapphire]

there are generally 2 tracks; a management track (tech lead) and an individual contributor track (principal engineer), but the latter is less common

[smoky quest]

You can also see that in the way VCs invest in startup. Why work as a CEO/engineer in a startup when you can split your investment across 20 startups?

[hallow hatch]

I wonder why. I suppose writing enterprise code isn't as satisfying as your own projects

[smoky quest]

It's not about writing code VS not writing code. It's about the impact you have.
Having an impact in some code is a lot more limited than having a much larger impact across an entire product

[dry sapphire]

^

[astral ermine]

Only one of them has to stick for it to be a big payout right 😂

[dry sapphire]

it's like being a soldier vs a general: you might be the best soldier ever, but your impact is almost always limited to how far you can shoot

as an aside, I just figured out associativity for my parser, and it is beautiful I think I'm gonna cry

[smoky quest]

Take whatsapp as an example. The story is they had 20 engineers and they sold for 20 billions. That's a lot of hundred of millions of users per engineers. That's also why they are paid much higher than someone flipping burger. Each engineer had as much impact as multiple countries.
But who had more impact than each engineer? Their manager

[vast shoal]

This is true, but I just like writing code. I don't want to move too far away from it, no matter how well paid I am or how impactful my decisions.

[dry sapphire]

however, not everyone wants to have that kind of impact.

[smoky quest]

From the startups pov, all of them are aiming for the big payout

[hallow hatch]

I think I agree with @vast shoal, someone needs to play the part. It may as well be someone who enjoys it. If I can still live that is

[astral ermine]

Why I like data science is because my code (or something I build) would help form insight that has impact

[smoky quest]

Right. It's also self selective

[dry sapphire]

a software engineer at any reputable company will be quite well compensated, even if you are just starting out

not even counting the benefits, which are...really nice.

[smoky quest]

that's true. But they have to accept their compensation won't be the same. But that's the cost of their satisfaction.
It's all about trade off

[hallow hatch]

Beginners too? I didn't think you'd be paid well for a good few years

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I'm already paid more than enough to be comfortable. Anything beyond this is just icing on the cake.

[smoky quest]

The CS field is pretty competitive in terms of compensation

[astral ermine]

I think most SWE start above 80k/yr

[dry sapphire]

it differs between jurisdictions, but more or less everywhere, you won't find many jobs that pay much better than SWEs when starting out

[smoky quest]

if you have a degree, it can easily be in the six figures numbers + equity

[dry sapphire]

btw where do you all go to research salary info?

[hallow hatch]

Anything above 50k in my neck of the woods is good living. Not sure there's too many jobs out this way though

[smoky quest]

friends + levels.fyi

[smoky quest]

where is that?
We do pay at least 100k across the US for instance

the higher the degree, the higher the number though. Also location

[hallow hatch]

I'm in south Louisiana

[astral ermine]

Everywhere I can. And compare across all platforms. LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor. But I'm new to the job market in general.

[hallow hatch]

Going to be getting a bachelors but it's not a very well reputed school. Really banking on my own education and projects

[dry sapphire]

sometimes I compare to the US and feel a bit sad...but I do realise taxes are higher there

[smoky quest]

It doesn't matter the school. As long as you get the BS, you would be fine

[astral ermine]

Yeah, cost of living plays a huge factor. I wouldn't move to Seattle for example.

[hallow hatch]

Well that calms my anxiety a bit. I'll just have to work on tailoring my resume and landing an internship.

[smoky quest]

best time to come to the US \0/

[dry sapphire]

if I get accepted for my Master's, I will, @ least (looking only @ US universities)

[smoky quest]

coming from which side of the world?

[dry sapphire]

SEA

[hallow hatch]

Do you live in another city?

[astral ermine]

You're not interested in online programs I presume?

[smoky quest]

you will be fine then

[dry sapphire]

no, I want the physical experience (US's national parks sound beautiful)

[astral ermine]

Florida

[dry sapphire]

I have never seen more than 10 stars in the sky, and then only as tiny dots. you kinda miss out on a lot of nature, living where I do.

[smoky quest]

Get to the bay area for the experience for a few years, go visit the national parks (they are beautiful) and then you are golden

[vast shoal]

The salaries are really high, but it sounds very stressful to have to pay for everything yourself. Here I can rely on all my basic needs being taken care of, and I still have a high enough salary to afford whatever luxuries I want.

[dry sapphire]

why do you say that?

[hallow hatch]

Close by, we share the same awful weather. I could never live in a place like Miami either though. Cities are loud

[smoky quest]

I have many friends from SEA

[dry sapphire]

gotta say one thing, we're really good at standardised testing 🥴

[smoky quest]

many countries are

[astral ermine]

I agree, Miami is way too busy for me

[dry sapphire]

no it's a huge trope in Singapore especially

#1 at any form of standardised test and bad at anything practical

[smoky quest]

I have friends from india and china saying the same thing

[hallow hatch]

I'm gonna check out. Thanks for the advice everybody. Keep me updated on your job searching progress @astral ermine 👋

[smoky quest]

that's not really the case in the US. If you are a swe, you are really well taken care of

[astral ermine]

Will do, good meeting you friend

[dry sapphire]

ngl I meet a lot more talented + driven Indian/Chinese engineers than local ones 😔

[smoky quest]

I can't speak about that. I would love to visit singapore

[dry sapphire]

it's a great place to settle down in IMO (very safe, good healthcare, stable economy, no capital gains taxes, convenience), but there really isn't much to do here

[smoky quest]

but talent is not defined by country or school. I have many times rejected stanford/berkeley candidates for no-names university folks because they were better

[dry sapphire]

it's not for sure, but I think that because my generation has grown up largely safe and content, we're not as driven? we take a ton of things for granted

[smoky quest]

depends also on the culture of the country. But can't speak for Singapore again

[robust lark]

Hello

[astral ermine]

In my Masters I had the pleasure of working with a director of cyber security for Visa (indian) as well as a not so talented project manager (also indian). And it really opened my eyes to the fact that we're all the same in terms of academics. I had this notion that indians were for the most part super skilled in a lot of tech areas

[smoky quest]

You have very good people and very bad people. This transcends schools and nationality!
That's why hiring is so difficult!

The larger the company, the easier it is to coast

[dry sapphire]

hopefully when I have my own startup I will make good decisions

[dry sapphire]

I just like diversity

[astral ermine]

Probably yes. For sure if you hire me 🥴

[dry sapphire]

maybe I have this perception because there are very few local engineers in good companies. most are foreigners.

[cyan scarab]

Ok

[astral ermine]

What an entrance

[smoky quest]

ngl you won't. That's how we all learn :p

[smoky quest]

On the bright side, there are books to learn from and most likely advisors

[dry sapphire]

yeah, I read/watch stuff and think about it

[smoky quest]

That's the same in the bay area. Most teams I am on have less americans than foreigners

[dry sapphire]

defo true. when I was developing my own app from scratch I learnt so much 😂 (and still missing a ton of stuff)

[smoky quest]

Most successful entrepreneurs are in their late 30s and in their 40s. Because they have seen things

[astral ermine]

I feel like we have so much historical knowledge on businesses, the fact that 2/3 fail within the first few years...
I guess it mostly speaks to how competitive things are

[smoky quest]

That's also why everyone should take any success story with a pinch of skepticism. There are strong survivor bias in these stories

[dry sapphire]

thinking you know and doing are two very different things

[astral ermine]

The Freddy Krueger effect, yes

[dry sapphire]

ah yes, Johnson's Law

the way to get an answer on the Internet is to post the wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you

[smoky quest]

oh I thought it was Cunningham's Law - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law

[astral ermine]

Did you purposely fall for it?

[smoky quest]

too late for uber meta

[astral ermine]

Also I hope you realized my reference to the Dunning Kruger effect is a joke on how earlier you had mentioned it to me.

[smoky quest]

nice one though.

[astral ermine]

Beer's Law at it's finest

[smoky quest]

not sure to follow that one?

[astral ermine]

Because you're drunk

[honest pivot]

What sort of salary expectations should one have for software engineering in Europe? Trying to understand where I am on the scale

[smoky quest]

alright, that too

[smoky quest]

it depends a lot on the country. Salaries vary a lot

[honest pivot]

Let's say western Europe, I'm not gonna move to Bulgaria even though it's cheap

[smoky quest]

I hate to be that guy, but between madrid, london and paris, it can be twice as much

and within the capital and their province, it can be 30% more

[honest pivot]

Sure, I know it varies, but what are some actual figures?

[smoky quest]

40k

65 in uk

https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Spain/ will probably be more useful to you

[honest pivot]

Wish I could see something corresponded with level

[smoky quest]

they have the years of experience for each. The thing to pay attention though is the typical equity is divided over 4 years but they count it as a whole year

So it may inflate somewhat the results.

also to note that different countries have different laws and benefits.

[honest pivot]

Where do I see equity? Is it not visible on mobile?

Yeah I know, I just spent a weekend reading about 10 different countries laws on patents and employee inventions

[smoky quest]

See the 3 numbers at the bottom?

salary - equity - bonus

[honest pivot]

Ah, ok

[smoky quest]

you can also click on each entry to get the full detail

[honest pivot]

It's difficult to compare because the work I'm doing isn't like these huge companies, and it's in a startup that hasn't yet reached profitability.

[smoky quest]

I have been at multiple startups. It's typically a consideration of equity and salary, which depends a lot on where is the company at in its life

although they were all in the US. Most european startups I interacted with were surprisingly stingy on the equity

[honest pivot]

What would you consider good equity?

[smoky quest]

depends on your seniority and how many rounds has the startup raised

[honest pivot]

Right. Can I message you?

[smoky quest]

sure

[night pasture]

would anyone recommend taking computer science for a level (SATS equivalent), or is it better to learn on my own? dream end goal would be an engineer in formula one or the like. please @ me if you reply, thanks in advance.

[small spruce]

I am 26, I already learned python,JavaScript,html,css,sql,basic C++.However I don’t build any project yet.Is it to late to build my career in programming?

[vapid jay]

I'm 26 and I'm doing it off of projects.

Y’a des français ? @

[small spruce]

The point is I am also civil engineer, I didn’t have enough time for concentrating on other things ,now I just want to shift on my real passion.

[prime mica]

d

[bleak pond]

Are u Indian

[forest spear]

Is programming in danger in the future? because of possible AI programmers and these days anyone can create websites and projects easily.

[balmy mural]

Programming is one of the last fields that could be replaced with AI. You still need to give concise instructions and business rules top an AI to write a program, and that's exactly what we're currently doing. Giving concise instructions and rules to a computer to do something.

[small spruce]

No , why?

[bleak pond]

Yes I would say in 100 years

But the need for computer programmers will always be there

[bleak pond]

Theres already programs which can select the best data science model according to the problem

[balmy mural]

It's never really too late to make a career shift, but without a degree, your project portfolio would be how you get a foot in the door. So you should be focussing on building up a portfolio of projects that can make you stand out above all the other applicants who do have a degree in a more relevant field.

[bleak pond]

Hey do u work in a company

[balmy mural]

Data science is still a rising career with a higher demand than supply. Data Science is not just throwing data at a model and hoping for the best.

[bleak pond]

Yea but we will get there someday

[balmy mural]

Almost done with my last year for a bachelors in statistics and computer science, will be doing post graduate next year

[bleak pond]

Great !

[small spruce]

Thanks.I’m trying my best to get better along the way.

[bleak pond]

Yea and u have enginnering degree too so it will be of great help even if u are from civil engineering

[small spruce]

I think so .Anyway it’s gonna be a long journey for me because I learn anything by myself .Sometimes a mentor would be a great help for me to move more quickly.

[pallid temple]

Guys I have a doubt , I finished my Electronics and communication engineering right now , I did not get placed on campus .
So what is the best way to go by ?

1. Prepare for software developer job ( preparing data structures and algorithms ) and Switch to data science career
2. Directly prepare for data science job and start applying for data analyst jobs

Please suggest me which one would be the best way to do in the current scenario .
Thanks in advance

[faint kestrel]

have you thought about RF engineering jobs, they are screaming for people

[sudden quartz]

To clarify, so you have degree in elec. and comms engineering but you want to go into software dev and data science? its fine but just asking

[pallid temple]

I'm actually more inclined towards data science and want to get into data science ( more towards machine learning ) , just confused about what would be the best way to get into the industry since I don't have the experience/job right out of college .

Right now I'm learning for data science python , Numpy , pandas , vis libraries and also know SQL , Excel and statistics , probability and linear algebra

[sudden quartz]

It varies but i dont think "data science" is an entry level thing in general. its basically a job that comprises a process, and sometimes you have people hired for just part of that process. This is where data engineer and data analyst positions come into play.

If there are authentic entry level data science positions go for those, but also keep a look out for data engineering and data analyst entry level positions

good luck, it could be tough competing with the hordes of stats majors and cs majors going for data science

[vapid jay]

How do you approach salary negotiations?

I'm getting asked for my salary expectations and I have no ideia of what is reasonable

[sage pumice]

use things like glassdoor to see what is average in your area/situation

[vapid jay]

Well, the average for a junior C/C++ developer here is about 1.3kEUR. I've actuay said that my ezpectation is 1k EUR, going down from the average, and the recruiter did not like it.

[ivory sluice]

wdym, how did they show they did not like it?

where do you live? that sounds awfully low

actually, I guess my question is not relevant if you've already done the market research and know what the range is

[silent python]

'

[balmy mural]

Regarding this point, no idea how true it rings, but I've been told to rather look for data engineering positions rather than data analyst positions if you want to transition into data science later on. Neither transition is strictly linear, but DE -> DS is more linear than DA -> DS

[vast shoal]

Generally speaking, it's bad to undersell yourself because that makes you look desperate.

Like you don't believe in your own abilities.

Try to figure out what the average is for your level of experience and try to shoot above that, then if you really like the position you can go down a bit, but not below the average.

[glacial ore]

hello...guys....i am new here can someone help me with GSOC and all

[vapid jay]

I have 8 recruitment processes ongoing rn

I'm undershooting on the first few processes to finish so that if the others don't go well I have something to come back to

[vernal glade]

Hi im currently doing GCSE Computer Science and I love it but have no idea on what to do in the future that's in coding. Anyone know anything?

[vapid jay]

I'm in Portugal rn

didn't see your message b4, and I haven't been thorough in my market research, I just went to see the glassdoor thing

[ivory sluice]

ok, can you more fully explain why you think the recruiter didn't like what you said?

[dire mason]

mina

microphone voice chat

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/470889390588035082/891236258448302120/unknown.png

[vapid jay]

idk she was pretty blunt about it, just said no lol

[dire mason]

beluga hi

[ivory sluice]

so this was an in person interaction? over phone? email?

you said "i'm looking for 1K euro" and she said "no"? there just be more to the story

[dire mason]

yeah

[vapid jay]

sometimes they ask for salary expectation on the first interview, she asked me and I said that and she just was shocked idk why

[dire mason]

friends cat pls

[fringe pine]

@dire mason Can you stay on-topic in this channel please.

[dire mason]

yeah

[vapid jay]

I mean, I can just move on, I'm just afraid that when I finish the other recruitment processes the story gets repeated. I'm still in the begining of most of them

[ivory sluice]

do you rmbr the conversation verbatim? how did she express her shock, thru her body language?

[vapid jay]

her face and her voice, and this was thru skype btw

I can't really give you verbatim, it was like portuguese conversation

[ivory sluice]

ok. so shocked in a bad way, you think

[dire mason]

beluga

[vapid jay]

yeah. other interviews have been going pretty well tho

[dire mason]

Leave unjoined goodbye

[tender frost]

!ban 884855019470471219 14d It seems like you don't intend to improve on your behaviour, despite a mute and multiple verbal warnings. Only return if you're truly interested in participating meaningfully within our server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @dire mason until <t:1633807403:f> (13 days and 23 hours).

[vapid jay]

but why are you asking so many question tho

[ivory sluice]

ah i'm just wondering why you've interpreted her as being shocked lol

to refer to your original question, do the market research. and it is always in your favor to let the other party first say a salary figure first

[vapid jay]

Oh but they never do

But now that you say so, I'm going to try to find ways to let them do it

[ivory sluice]

the second best option is for you to give them a range

[vapid jay]

In such case should I be as broad as possible?

Like, I'm fresh out of college, I have no idea what I'm doin lol

[ivory sluice]

no, you should give a fairly narrow range, based on the amounts you found while doing your market research

i also would hesitate to accept advice from anyone (myself included) that hasn't gone thru the hiring process for themselves in your country & industry. take everything we say with a grain of salt lol

do you have peers, seniors from your school that can give you some advice or anecdotes? any career department at your school? any profession-based organizations on campus? those would all be good resources to check in with as well

[vapid jay]

Yeah, if it weren't one of you guys I wouldn't even know that a transition to software development was possible for me

[vapid jay]

No one in my course has the possibility to do this transition, so I'm a bit alone with this problem

[ivory sluice]

well you must be doing something right since you're getting all these interviews 🙂

[ivory sluice]

what about people outside of your "course" at school?

[vapid jay]

Well, I am much more well inforned now and have been receiving guidance from a friend I made online.

[vapid jay]

I do know people working in software rn, but they went through a boot camp that offered an internship that transitioned to job. So they didn't actually went thru the process

[ivory sluice]

oh but even if they did boot camp, didn't they have to interview and negotiate pay?

[vapid jay]

In my school, there is a computer science department, but I don't know anyone in there. Like we are on opposite sides of the faculty

[ivory sluice]

hmm if not that's interesting. like a direct pipeline lol

[vapid jay]

Yeah I think it was something like that.

Perhaps I should ask, but I don't think they had interview

[ivory sluice]

make sure you still ask them if you have those contacts, it can't hurt and it can only help

[vapid jay]

Alright

[ivory sluice]

and even if they didn't go thru the exact process you are going thru right now, hopefully they have more insight than you expect

[vapid jay]

Ok, I'm gonna ask them about it

[little reef]

Good afternoon everyone. I figured this would be as good of a place as any. May i have someone provide feedback on the best route to take as a software engineer? I am currently in my sophomore year of college and have written a few scripts (mostly web scraping scripts) however I am looking to build my portfolio. I've been looking into a coding bootcamp as well however the only camps that stand out are coding dojo and freemote. Any advice you all can provide will be GREATLY appreciated as it feels i'm running in circles at this point. If you would be so kind as to @ me so i can receive notification, that would be helpful as well.

[fickle flax]

There. are different routes for SE,
self-taught, coding bootcamp (1yr) or college (1-2years) or online courses or higher education(4-6yrs). Given current circumstance, it seems like coding bootcamp may be what want or see if available college courses for programming since already doing college.

Coding bootccamp is around 10k~ or so depending. It also is full time so cant really work. In addition, need to do coding test to get in at some i believe.
While taking college programming course is cheaper depending 300$ or so and only need a few to get you up and running

[little reef]

I've completed my python course in school already and walked out with a B. However, i feel like i didn't really learn anything except how functions, classes, and variables work together.

[smoky quest]

Are you looking at dropping out of college?

[little reef]

@smoky quest not exactly, eventually i would love to obtain my degree, but the pacing is too slow at this point and i need a way of earning money while learning to code (if that's possible)

[radiant moon]

it's the only way, if you ask me

[smoky quest]

You don't need any bootcamp then. You are already in a college.
If it's for money, then look for part time jobs or freelancing. Although it may be tougher if looking for a part time CS job

[thick ruin]

any leads currently to earn some pocket change?

[radiant moon]

you'll learn ... something in college, but working at a real job, you'll learn much more relevant stuff, and faster

[little reef]

any ideas of where to start? Everyone wants you to have a bachelors, with like 20+ years of experience. I doubt I would qualify for over 80% of the jobs out there

[smoky quest]

There are many jobs for new grads.
There aren't many part time cs jobs for students however. Typical route is going through someone you know who works there...

[thick ruin]

any leads to some freelance jobs that are actually available?

[little reef]

@smoky quest yikes. I literally know no one.

[thick ruin]

anyone here has one of those jobs or links?

[smoky quest]

But what problem are you trying to solve here? Are you short on money? Some other goal?

[smoky quest]

they don't fall from the tree. It requires some effort to search and find/bid on fiver and upwork

[little reef]

@smoky quest I am basically attempting to be self employed. I have been in the IT industry for roughly 4 years and currently certified as well. in terms of finding jobs on fiver. Any recommendations for beginners?

[smoky quest]

I have no clue. I don't freelance

[little reef]

@smoky quest where did you start your career?

[smoky quest]

regular company

[smoky quest]

I thought you were working on a degree? Is it on the side?

[thick ruin]

what company? 😑

[smoky quest]

That doesn't matter. Am not gonna dox myself

[thick ruin]

Bruh

[little reef]

yeah basically. I just want to know if the time i'm spending in school is worth it.

[thick ruin]

im gonna get to know ya then

[smoky quest]

for CS jobs, yes.
For every position I hire for, I receive >100 resumes where 99% have a degree

[smoky quest]

Since you are already in the field, you could try to work your way by going from adjacent jobs to something closer over time, but that will take tons of time, effort and luck.
The CS degree will just get you some doors to open

In addition, don't forget to network with your classmates. They will be in the same field and will need to look for other great engineers. So don't neglect on your professional network

[smoky quest]

Also since you are in a sophomore, keep in mind the first few months is about bringing everyone up to speed. Not everyone has the same background. It gets a lot more interesting afterward

[little reef]

@smoky quest I hope so, but since school is virtual, no one writes back or cares. Especially now considering the state of the world and all.

[smoky quest]

It's worth trying. Bring this up with some teachers too.
There will also be some group projects at some point as well

[little reef]

well while i'm going to school, anything i can do in the meantime?

[thick ruin]

for you its easy, practice doing something that is in demand

[smoky quest]

Do projects and explore things. Try to make a mobile app, a web app, some distributed system, some raspberry pi /embedded stuff. See what sticks with you and what you hate

Also do not hesitate to go deeper than the classes. It makes a lot of difference between the students who just keep along and the ones who do more

[little reef]

@smoky quest funny you mention a rasperrypi. as i recently bought one, but haven't found a purpose for it yet.

[smoky quest]

lots of people use it for home automation and/or leveraging its GPIO

[little reef]

@smoky quest

[smoky quest]

One easy project is to get some sensor module and using the gpio pins to read the values

[little reef]

@smoky quest thanks for the info. YOU HAVE BEEN THE MOST HELPFUL PERSON I'VE EVER COME ACROSS!!

[thick ruin]

one step closer to nothingness

[smoky quest]

np

[spare juniper]

I feel so many are quick to dismiss college, but a bachelors in computer science teaches you a lot more about how computers actually work, and goes deeper than just knowing how to code.
Along with this, entry level jobs are the hardest to find, and if you go to a decent university they often have people that help you get your first job, or the companies come to you. Internships also come out of college which can earn money.
If you did decently in school more prestigious universities pledge to make sure you graduate with student debt, but even if you do, the amount of money you'll make after will help recuperate the costs.

Also, if you graduate from one of the more prestigious tech universities (eg Stanford), you'll get paid $20k+ a year more (avg) starting off

[ocean ledge]

if you only spend your time in school with what classes teach you without using the other resources available in a university setting, you've failed yourself anyway

[radiant moon]

I think if you can get into Stanford, you're not asking for help on Discord 🤣

[runic quail]

Hi guys, I’m looking for some advice regarding python in the biomedicine sector.

Currently I’m completing my third year (UK final year) in neuroscience BSc. After my final year, I’ll be looking to take up a masters in neuroscience or biomedical engineering. So as a biosciences student with no coding experience, I would love to hear about any of your experiences using python (and other languages) in neuroscience research, bioinformatics, bioengineering. Also I would greatly appreciate suggestions for resources I should explore to start learning python.

😁

[fickle flax]

Hmm im not bio student but for learning any langauge it good to learn fundamentals such as functions variables loops arrays basic data structure Object orient programming and variable scopes

Once learn fundamentals, can dive deeper into what need to learn and see whats required for that field related to programming

[radiant moon]

if I hear "research" I immediately think "pandas" and "numpy"
at least glance at their web sites and see if they look interesting

[vapid jay]

I used learn python the hard way + the tutorial on their website to learn python as a biology PhD student cuz I’m taking a grad level bioinformatics class.

[vapid jay]

It’s worked out so far. 😆

[grand relic]

should I learn Java so I can understand the book "Cracking the Coding Interview?" I've also noticed there are notable books on DS&A in Java. I have a JS background and currently going through a web dev bootcamp

[fickle flax]

Cracking code interview even though it may use a certain language as an example, there is no really need to learn a langauge just to learn the core data strucures which can be. translated to any language

focus should be being able to understand and apply the information to any language.

[dry sapphire]

IMO JS is a special case because some of the data structures in it work a bit weirdly

in particular, sets/maps (dictionaries) use identity comparisons

[fickle flax]

yeah thats true too

[gritty rivet]

Should you learn a whole new language just in order to read one interview prep book? I would say no. Learn Java if it fits your career goals, and if not, find other interview prep books

[grand relic]

CTCI is the quintessential one tho

[smoky quest]

If you know any C++/C#/JS, you can read some java pretty quickly, especially if it's about getting the gist of an idea. So if you were to read a book using java, it would pretty much make sense after the initial adjustment.
I haven't read that book though, so I can't comment on it.

[radiant moon]

personally I wouldn't learn Java unless I had to. And I've had to, so I learned it.
But I'm glad I didn't learn it just in case -- I've never had a job interview that referred to it.
And we hates it, we does

[astral ermine]

I turned down a paid training position that would turn into consultant for JP Morgan Chase because they wanted me to learn Cpp and Java

[radiant moon]

scary that that's what Big Finance is using to manage our money

[astral ermine]

I'm not sure where the software engineering was focused on (app or webpage)

[radiant moon]

I imagine the JP Morgan Chase web guys spend way more time on regulatory compliance, than on making their web site usable

[smoky quest]

java is underrated. But that's also the wrong channel to argue about it 😉

[tame escarp]

Java is not underrated at all lol.

[vast shoal]

As @smoky quest pointed out, this is not the right channel for it, but feel free to discuss the virtues of Java or lack thereof in off-topic.

[cyan scarab]

Java's not underrated--

[jolly girder]

Thank you !!

[dry sapphire]

care to elaborate? in OT if you want (note that I mean only Java the language, and not the JVM)

[vernal charm]

I came across this article about how programming / software dev industry is a hell hole and its quite possibly the most depressing thing I read. https://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/news/finance/developer-jobs-terrible-career
Sharing to hear other people's thoughts

[vapid jay]

guys

I have a confession to make.....I carry a sin I saw this video
https://youtu.be/MjlkBkfLzC8

[trail bough]

hey, I learned basic python in the past and I also programmed in c/c++ for the last 2 years, I want to become proficient in python, anyone have a good courses or projects that I could do?

[dry sapphire]

hm I personally am having a lot of fun, am paid reasonably well, and have p good work-life balance

[dry sapphire]

BUT I will also say that there's a fair number of programming sweatshops where it's a race to the bottom.

[glacial goblet]

hey im a sophomore in high school and was wondering what kind of stuff i can get into im just learning python rn but want to know what is good to start looking for?

[vast shoal]

Depends on what your goals are. What do you want to do down the line?

[glacial goblet]

I mean ive been thinking about looking into cyber security but i have to look more into it to see what it is more in depth

[vast shoal]

Cybersecurity is not my strong suit, but an easy entry point would be solving problems on https://picoctf.org/. It's aimed at people ages 13 and up with problems ranging from very simple to quite complex (from what I gather, again, I'm not an expert).

[glacial goblet]

ive been having issues finding somthing to do and working on it

[vast shoal]

I've solved some problems there myself and it's pretty fun.

[glacial goblet]

ill take a look ive been doing leet codes and they are still confusing for me even the sum two so ill take a look thanks

[vast shoal]

The more you practice, the more familiar and intuitive things will become. You can also try just working on your own software project and get more "real-world" experience programming. Solving abstract problems on sites like leetcode or hackerrank can be hard to associate with real-world applications sometimes.

[glacial goblet]

yea

[glacial goblet]

ok for the pico where do i go to do probloms that would be on the easyer side?

[vast shoal]

I think that page is pretty intuitive, just follow the steps. They also apparently have a Discord where you can ask questions.

[glacial goblet]

ok thanks'

[vast shoal]

I think the problems tend to be ordered by difficulty.

[night abyss]

so can you land a IT job with just an associates degree?

[radiant moon]

I landed a programming job with just an associate's. However:

• I got the job through a co-op program at the school I went to
• This was 35 years ago

[vast shoal]

Most likely. It might be easier with a bachelors or a masters, but there's a lot of demand.

[still condor]

as far as I can tell no degree is strictly required to get a job in IT (depending on what the job is, of course)

[fiery anvil]

Hey guys, I am new on software engineering. I am a 16 years old high school student who likes software engineering. I have now 1 year of experience in Python, and 4 months into Java. My goal is to have a job before my 18s. Would you suggest me to go to Back-End software engineering, Java developer, AI/ML or learn blockchain ( solidity )? Please, if anyone can help me, reply me. I like both AI/ML and Blockchain. But my main priority is to find a well paid job before my 18s

[radiant moon]

you should study whatever subjects are in demand in the area you want to live in, as revealed by job postings.

[vapid jay]

and have luck

[vapid jay]

I would recommend making/having few "bigger" projects.
So employer can see that you know how to make/do something

Programming market is really saturated by people who think watching 2 tutorials is enough for finding a job

[fiery anvil]

So building a good resume with good enough projects is essential

[vapid jay]

yes, if you don't have a CS or EE degree

[balmy mural]

If you want to compete in a job market against students who have a degree, yes

[fiery anvil]

Ok, thanks a lot

[vapid jay]

still why would I choose someone with no projects over someone with a lot of projects?

also make sure to learn DSA(Data structures and algorithms) for interviews

[balmy mural]

recursive_error has mentioned before that 99% of resumes that he sees are people with degrees. Why would I choose someone with just projects over someone with a degree and projects?

[vapid jay]

have better projects and more experience then people with degrees

[balmy mural]

Here's the relevant message.

[vapid jay]

if you aren't going to college you have much more time to learn and make stuff you want to do(as a job)

no matter what you do you still have to be lucky tho

[balmy mural]

I mean, I'm in my final year of my bachelors and most of my fellow classmates who actually enjoy coding also have multiple projects and/opr contributions to open source projects. So even if you do go to uni, there's a lot of time to spend on personal projects

[vapid jay]

yes, but not as much as if you don't go

[sage pumice]

you act as if someone not in college is going to be coding the entire day

[fiery anvil]

And what can be a good project using Python, AI/ML?

[vapid jay]

if you want to get job you have to work more then anyone else

[vapid jay]

go to arxiv.org and try to implement some new ai/ml reasearch, for ai and ml you have to know a lot of maths tho (and cs theory ofc)

[balmy mural]

ai/ml is going to be a lot harder to break into the field without a degree than software engineering jobs

[vapid jay]

agreed

[vast shoal]

Is going to uni not an option for you?

[vapid jay]

cause at the end of the day you will learn same thing they do on uni if you want to work something w ai/ml

like discrete maths and stuff

[fickle flax]

@fiery anvil there. is a resource https://github.com/ashishpatel26/500-AI-Machine-learning-Deep-learning-Computer-vision-NLP-Projects-with-code
i would say a good ML project is anything end to end(deployment with cloud or flask, and docker container etc., also documentations ) and that solves a real world problem and that is not very common such as kaggle projects. You can still use kaggle dataset but to showcase kaggle as a project does not stand out as much unless come in the top ranking board or so This response it mostly from krish naik a ML engineer who is self taught

There is also INeuron which gives real internship experience through projects that you can showcase however these require lots of knowledge already like data cleaning, feature engineering and end to end and understanding of algorithms

[fiery anvil]

Thanks 🙏

Also, if I would like to join an internship in AI / ML. What do I need to do… I mean: do a lot of projects, currently pursuing a CS Degree…?

[fickle flax]

not neccesary, most self taught ive seen just have 1-2 projects for ML. But these show like what i mentioned earlier(end to. end). Quality > quantity

and since you are doing college, can look for related positions doing ML once feel comfrtoable to apply to get work experience as ML engineer/data scientist.

[fiery anvil]

So you all suggest to learn AI/ML instead of Blockchain ( solidity ) if I want to have a job before my 18s ?

[fickle flax]

it is whatever interest you , you can get a job anywhere in any field in SE(front-end,backend,QA,ML,DS,block chain, game dev ,mobileetc) before 18 to an extent.

difference is ML is like what others said is heavy math (fun though)and its a lot of data analysing , model trainning is like like less than 20% of actual job in ML and it very competitive as other said with degrees and lots of learning but reasonable.
Blockchain is different from this...

[fiery anvil]

And so, if I learn Python, what can I do ? What can Python be used for ? AI/ ML, or other stuffs ?

[fickle flax]

yup, and a quick google search shows different applicatinos of python. But something important to note is it not really important language learn, once learn fundamentals it can be passed to other languages so companies know that. It just important to learn at least 1 language

[fiery anvil]

So, let’s say you all have 16 years old ( like me ) which path would you follow ? AI/ML , blockchain ( solidity ) or other things?

[fickle flax]

maybe others can feedback to this, but it is whatever interest you really. Have you given a look at different fields for programming and what interest you? If you puruse ML field have to learn a lot of things compared to front-end or backend

[near ocean]

Other things definitely, AI/ML is not nearly as interesting as people hype it up to be

[fickle flax]

i find ML interesting, currently doing it 😅

[fiery anvil]

Also, I say Python is used for back-end. What does it mean? If you can, can you give me an example ?

[fickle flax]

for example, snapchat or instagram,

those likes you see or images, all that logic is handled in backend usually a frame work like djagno in this case since the companies use this. Flask/django is for python

or at you scchool, how do teachers know your grades or which classes enrolled? that too is handled in backend with. a database to store records.

backend is anything you dont see that handles the logic in short

[vast shoal]

The backend refers to the server part of a web application. The code that is executed in the web server.

As opposed to the code that is executed in the client, which can be a browser, a mobile app, a desktop app, etc. That's referred to as the frontend.

[fiery anvil]

Ok thanks

[vapid jay]

Ai and ml is basically just math

Just learn statistics

[fiery anvil]

I saw a course of AI engineering: https://strive.school/ It costs like 990$ would you recommend it ?

[vapid jay]

And blockchains or cryptocurrencies have nothing to do with solidity

[vapid jay]

No, just read what students are reading and complement that w papers http://teachyourselfcs.com/

Paying for courses is waste of money, since all informations are available put there

Also learning X language doesnt mean anything. If you learn python u know python and thats it(same goes for any lang)

[fiery anvil]

Ok thanks. There’s a lot of info

[gilded tiger]

anyone in here know stuff about working at Apple Retail? like the Creative role
this: https://jobs.apple.com/en-ae/details/114438217/uae-creative?team=APPST
i'm in 2nd year of uni rn, i might try getting a job there sometime
while i'm still in uni

[crude crown]

I mean, it is interesting compared to the more bogstandard software development that you have in the industry usually, which would actually be web development in general (this can be either frontend and backend as it's usually separated nowadays). Now, is it the most interesting thing ever? no.

[crude crown]

To give some context, 15 years ago AI/ML was a really "underground" topic (i.e. only studied/developed in universities and pure R&D labs) and blockchain didn't even exist at the time. In 15 years it might be that these would still be a "hot" thing in the mainstream but who knows? I would advise to focus on studying things that can't so easily go "out of fashion", like math/statistics. And it's really important to be adaptable.

[ruby surge]

Damn, this is actually quite amazing. I've been looking for something like this for a long time

[vapid jay]

Yep

[burnt wren]

I’m making a “generic” resume I’d like to give out in career fairs or when I don’t have the specific job posting on hand. My goal is to be a remote software engineer, and I would like to work with Python. I’m hoping to get some feedback.

• A possible red flag that I can think of is the “downgrade” to a less technical-sounding position. Is this assessment accurate? Thinking of addressing it in a cover letter but if I have no opportunity to give a cover letter, is there a way to address that within the resume?
• Are there other red flags you can see?
• Which areas am I weak?
• Is it too wordy?
• I had it two pages because I heard that it’s OK if you’re >= ten years in the workforce. Is it? 😬
• I put volunteering experience I had even when I was still a student (because there’s space!). Still, I wonder if I should remove it.
• Other comments?

Here's page 2

[smoky quest]

yeah, the downgrade looks off. May not need a letter but I would expect some questions.
Other than that, you are massively underselling yourself. You have 10 years of experience but you are only looking for software engineer positions? You should look at the very least for senior/lead software positions

Splitting your years in the different roles as the first line (and thus first thing) one see is also hurting you more than anything. Again, you have 10 years of experience. I don't need to know how many years in intern/junior/mid/etc. I can check the details for that.

a python script makes it sound super small and insignificant

[burnt wren]

Thanks for your feedback @smoky quest !

[smoky quest]

When you were a team lead, it's not clear about your scope/impact. For instance how big was the team

[burnt wren]

I'm not a believer in number of years. Someone shared a chart https://github.com/GalvanizeOpenSource/developer-standards/blob/master/standards_for_developers.md and I thought it looks pretty reasonable. Based on this chart I'd be somewhere between junior and mid-level.

[smoky quest]

It's fair when we have a discussion, but TMI when that's the first impression

[burnt wren]

It's a one-off script so in one sense it is super small. But I don't think it's insignificant since it did save the organization massive amounts of time.

[smoky quest]

Yet, your python script is in bold.

[burnt wren]

A! Good point!

[smoky quest]

Also fyi, while you have anonymized a lot yoru resume, your github link is giving you away

[burnt wren]

My goal was to emphasize Python so I think I'll bold python and then the impact.

[burnt wren]

That's intentional in case folks want to see that profile / to inform people who have the time to give feedback.

[smoky quest]

yeah, I would remove the word script. Maybe something like reduced workload from months to minutes using python (but phrase it better than me :p ).

[smoky quest]

the repos you point to are actually awesome. I rarely see repos with a clear summary of wtf I am looking at, some animated gifs and descriptions of where to go from there

[burnt wren]

There's a chance that people will lurk in the links and they don't really want to help but just scrape info / troll me...but I'll take the chance. 🙈

[burnt wren]

Thank you! 🙈

[limber cloak]

Guys anyone a python expert ?

[smoky quest]

👍
My main feedback is you are massively underselling yourself. I have received resumes from folks with far less experience trying to claim wayyyy more

[smoky quest]

This channel is about #career-advice . So if it's a question about python itself, you are in the wrong place.

[burnt wren]

That makes a lot of sense. It was just another team member when we hired a junior. I will put in "a team of two". I wonder though if there's no point since it's such a super small team. Really, the smallest definition of a team. 😆

[limber cloak]

No I’m here to ask that I’m doing engineering python and I need help with some question

Because engineering is really hard espcillat python

[smoky quest]

What matters is also the implication about that you had to lead the project and team. That means a lot in terms of responsibilities

[smoky quest]

then you are in the wrong place. You should try a better suited channel than this one, which is about #career-advice

[smoky quest]

Also from your resume, it's difficult to get the vibe of what you are looking for. Your experience is pretty wide, which is an asset but also makes me wonder what's next for you

[remote crater]

What SPECIFIC projects should you put on github in order to increase your likelihood of getting hired for ANY job?

[smoky quest]

The more relevant to the position the better.
Note also that it can be less about the project and more about the skills you are trying to demonstrate

[burnt wren]

These are all good comments @smoky quest I'll be AFK since it's dinner time and won't be able to respond but I will later

[remote crater]

I don’t care what the job is

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[remote crater]

I just want to quickly get a job

[smoky quest]

your employer will care about it

[smoky quest]

Try to put yourself in the shoes of the employer trying to fill a req. They don't give a crap about you specifically. They have 100s of candidates and only care about finding the one who will fit the best for that position.

[remote crater]

So you’re saying I can’t think in terms of “any job”, I need to figure out a specific position to aim for?

And then ask the question from there?

[fickle flax]

Yeah @remote crater

[remote crater]

Then which job should I aim for, and which projects should I post for that job

[fickle flax]

What job interest you or what path you want to work as?

[remote crater]

Idc

[smoky quest]

If you want to increase your chances, then yes.
As someone hiring people, I don't give a shit about their mobile app if I am hiring for something completely different

[smoky quest]

QA jobs are easier to get. It's tough to find a good qa

[remote crater]

What projects to become more appealing for that?

[smoky quest]

you wouldn't need any. If you want, you can open some bug reports that are useful to some open source projects and use that as an example

note that QA jobs are not developer jobs

[remote crater]

And that’s not hard? To find bugs in things on GitHub?

[smoky quest]

Given the type of questions you are asking, I get the feeling you don't really know much.
Honestly, I don't think anyone would hire you at this stage. Just doing some projects won't lead you to success like that

(and I am not saying this in a demeaning way)

[remote crater]

I know, but I don’t know what to learn

[smoky quest]

Go to college or bootcamps

[remote crater]

They just teach you the basics

I took the python courses my college offers

[smoky quest]

what's your current situation?

[remote crater]

I don’t know what specific thing to learn

[dry sapphire]

@remote crater are traineeships available where you are?

[smoky quest]

if you tell us where you are at, it will be easier to help you for what's available

[remote crater]

I’m not sure

[radiant moon]

@remote crater you are so knowledgeable and helpful here that I might submit some of your transcipts. Might only get you a help desk job tho

[remote crater]

Thank you offby1, but I have no specialized knowledge

So I need to get some of that

I mean things like numpy or sql, or something else. No specialized knowledge.

[smoky quest]

I mean, are you still in college? freshman? In a CS degree or some other degree?

[remote crater]

I’m taking college courses on programming

[smoky quest]

typically the first few classes may be boring or easy as not everyone has the same background. It gets more interesting once that hump is passed