career-advice

[vapid jay]

ah ok thanks, I'm personally pretty bad at learning in a school enviroment and prefer to self study on subjects, and I tend to see that free learning sources help me learn faster, and easier to access, plus I don't have the funding to go to college anyway lol

[vast shoal]

Ok, that sounds promising then. There are a LOT of free learning resources available online, probably everything you really need. Though, you may also benefit from picking up certain books on certain topics (which at least is a lot cheaper than going to college in certain countries).

And yeah, I can't stress enough the importance of getting involved in the community. It'll help steer you in the right direction and teach you things you wouldn't even have thought of finding out about otherwise.

[empty turret]

Hello! I am new here:)

[vapid jay]

ah ok cool, I suppose my only real blockage atm is that I have a mild interest in programming, but not really a practical goal to works toward, "learning a language" is a bit too broad for me personally

like maybe a project or something

[plush galleon]

In your message, machine learning looks like a buzzword

Why would you want to come to Germany? College level?

[plush galleon]

You can find a lot of free resources online for free
You could try JetBrains Academy for a couple of months to learn with projects
Depending on your country, you could get a scholarship

[sturdy shale]

I apologize. maybe I haven't constructed the question properly. I am a beginner to coding and everything is still not very clear to me. according to what I have read, machine learning is necessary for AI. I did not speak more about machine learning because I haven't still started learning it or have no idea whatsoever how to learn it. but I have started learning python for the last couple months.

Germany because it has good technical colleges and great scholarship programs along with low expenditure for students (as far I know yet). I cannot afford to spend a huge amount on my master's, but I also really want to broaden my horizon.

[plush galleon]

It's not necessary for AI. As of 2021, many authors continue to assert that machine learning is a subfield of AI but the idea of machine learning as a separated field emerged more than 20 years ago.
Some AI systems use machine learning to achieve competence while some don't.
There's no really consensus: some people claim that only a part of machine learning could be a part of AI.

[vast shoal]

Working on a project is the best way to learn anyhow, and the sooner you get started, the better. You may have to take breaks to study up on certain subjects along the way though, just to move forward.

[plush galleon]

In machine learning the agent learns and predicts based on passive observation while AI implies that your agent interacts with its environment to learn and take actions to maximize its chance to achieve its goal.

Did you think about finishing your bachelor's degree, working a few months and then enrolling into a master's degree?

On my CV I could write that I have some practical experience with machine learning but I never used anything that would make me think that I really worked with AI.

Hopefully I spent a couple of hundred of euros to buy books to learn at least the theoretical aspects of AI.

[odd ridge]

hey, did/does anyone here study computer science at a Uni in England? If so please ping me, I got a few questions

[sturdy shale]

So you think I should focus more on building projects, rather than just acquiring theoretical knowledge?

[onyx plover]

What if I have a ton of work experience but no projects to show

[mortal wedge]

Entry level for any market is a bit rough. Programming however pays pretty decently, I doubt that there are programming jobs that pay barely above minimum wage. Even if they were, someone will shoot up from that soon.

Career-wise it's really rough. You have to find other ways to prove yourself and learn the information and even then a lot of jobs won't take you if you don't have a degree. It's going to either take a lot of networking or having to take jobs that aren't too great but will help build your resume.

Sounds like a decent path. Python machine learning is one of the easier ways to do machine learning. Robotics is also a good path to follow and your electronics engineering should prepare you well.

[mortal wedge]

You weren't given any projects at your work?

[onyx plover]

But they're proprietary and can't talk in detail about them

[mortal wedge]

Unless it's a sec clearance type of thing, you're usually allowed to say something about it. Companies understand if you can't go into too much detail.

My coworker worked at the FBI doing cyber security as his last job 🙂

[dry steeple]

Hello guys. After learning python for 4 months now, I have learned things like loops, functions, classes/object/inheritance, modules, and the built-in data structures like lists, tuples, dicts, and sets.
I also know the basics of SQL such as creating, inserting, deleting, updating, and selecting from table, functions such as Count()/Avg()/Sum()/Min()/Max(), union, group by/having, order by, and simple joins.
I am not a compsci major but would this be enough for me to gain an internship at a small company specifically in nyc?

[wide needle]

my experience is that companies take interns exclusively through university recruiting. self taught entry level is usually via junior positions or adjacent positions where you're then promoted into programming.

that's just my experience though, i imagine it depends a lot from company to company. there isn't an industry standard

also, knowing the basics you mentioned is very theoretical. i'd try to get a real project under your belt you can point to if you don't have one in which ever field you're interested in

[dry steeple]

thanks for the advice. i will keep applying to see if anyone gives me the chance. im a rising junior in college and i wasnt sure where i stood compared to my peers. this is my first time looking for IT jobs so im kinda scared.

[wide needle]

yea, it can be super stressful interviewing. best advice i can give is to just try to get experience interviewing, you'll learn the types of questions people ask and what to improve on over time. best of luck

[ancient sierra]

Hello, I want to build things and make them do stuff with coding. What would be a good career to pursue?

[ancient sierra]

Anyone?

[dry steeple]

i think mobile development and web development are good career paths for people who like to build stuff

[ancient sierra]

Okay thank you!

[half pasture]

Ay up people. I had a serious question to ask. I'm really into general purpose python programming and the things to do with networking, opencv and web scraping. Although I like making projects with these, do all of these add up to a bigger picture that could potentially make a career in the IT industry?

[vast shoal]

All of those areas can be useful in commercial projects. If you work on creating an impressive portfolio of projects using those concepts, I'm sure that will be valuable while jobseeking.

It wouldn't hurt going beyond just those domains and rounding out your profile even more, though. You can't generally go wrong with learning web development, for example.

[plush galleon]

The "project" part wasn't for you. It was an answer to another message. I think that you should clarify what you really want to do. You can find free or quite cheap machine learning courses online but for an introduction to AI itself I'd suggest some books that aren't really cheap.

[plush galleon]

I don't think that you have to hide all of it. Per contract I can't give precise details about what is done where I work (it's a research center working with private enterprises) but I have to write a thesis describing what I do.

[plush galleon]

You should go easy on technical terms. You lost us all. What would you want to build?

[obtuse wasp]

Do people privately host their portfolio of IT projects or use a PaaS?

[vast shoal]

Github is the most common place to keep your projects. That's often where recruiters search, as well.

[obtuse wasp]

Oh, of course (how did I miss that?)... but also, that's a bit interesting if your projects are, like, include a physical aspect.

[vast shoal]

Well, you can publish the source code there, and you could maybe include a link to a video demo on youtube for example.

If it's a hardware project.

[obtuse wasp]

True! Far out, that's way better. I've made a LAMP with some projects on to see how it all works from outside my LAN. I'm cautious but it's still pretty nerve-wracking since my security skills are pretty default.

Thanks for the info.

[vast shoal]

It's unlikely to be a big deal unless you leave it up and open for months or years.

If you really want to host something long-term, invest in a cloud host.

[ocean solar]

Not sure if this is the correct channel for this but I'm an indie developer. I'm in an area of development where I want to start diving into indie commercial development. I have an idea for a project which would need original and decent 2D art work. To start off, I want to hire someone as a graphic designer for my projects.

But i have absolutely no idea how this should work, my main concerns are how I should make the payments, would they be by basis amount of art pieces, per hours? what are the overview of legality in using paid artwork done by an employee?

[vast shoal]

This channel is for career advice. If you want help with Python, check out #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[vast shoal]

I don't think this is probably the best forum to ask about this. I think looking into communities of graphic designers might be more likely to tell you what you want to know.

[short star]

oh i wonder that im in databases

[obtuse wasp]

I had a friend who did some concept art for an indie game. Her experience was similar to licenses, she negotiated to keep ownership of her work and the project could use them as proof of concept. Although the project fell through, she was going to get paid per piece of work (like, FFVI character sprite = $x, background = $y)

[vast shoal]

They will know better how they are normally compensated and what they expect. It probably also varies depending on what country you are based in.

I would probably expect to get ownership of the artwork if I hired an artist, personally.

[ocean solar]

Yeah, that's fair. I was wondering if anyone that had the same position as myself and how they managed to solve it.

[ocean solar]

Same, I would too, I'm not an expert in licenses so that i assume is the safest path to go down

[ocean solar]

That's interesting, I think I might get more information if i look out in communities based on this as dementati suggested.

[obtuse wasp]

Yeah, I think the eventual goal was for the project to take ownership of it, but in the concept phase she retained ownership and just did a few hours to "land the job" and provide the programmers with something to work with.

[ocean solar]

Yeah fair enough.

[vapid jay]

No particular reason.
One of the reason is it maybe required in future in my studies (physics).
Another reason is you can automate some stuffs using Python.
Also it's beginner friendly, since it's the first language I'm learning in programming.

[sturdy shale]

Thank you for clearing that up. Some book suggestions would be really helpful.

[sturdy shale]

Thank you very much.

[vapid jay]

thanks

[plush galleon]

Unless you want to make a game with Pygame (#game-development), it's not the place to ask anything about game development and you can't hire in this server

If you aren't recruiting and are just asking for informations, the designer can be paid per artwork (anything the designer sent you) or per hour, depending on your contract

[sinful yew]

That image is making my client crash bahahaa

[plush galleon]

The designer might also ask to keep ownership but you'd have to negotiate it and not forget to mention who made the artworks

[plush galleon]

In physics, I used MATLAB and C++

[vapid jay]

I'm using scilab and learning sage

[plush galleon]

It depends on your budget, your final goals and the paths your college offers.

[plush galleon]

In which grade are you? Didn't you use MATLAB?

[vapid jay]

I'm doing my graduation in physics.
3rd year

Matlab is paid and my college doesn't provide it

[plush galleon]

We also used Fortran

[zealous agate]

Hello Everyone!
I wanted to know about any remote internship opportunity in Python Django that is available.

[vast shoal]

This channel is not a job board, it's more of a career advice forum. See the channel topic.

[plush galleon]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[vapid jay]

That's not really related to the channel topic, but you could find it at https://stats.pythondiscord.com

[ocean ledge]

just use octave-- its open source matlab. sage is usually for very different purposes, ie computational arithmetic geometry

[plush galleon]

I assumed that Riyango's college chose to make them use SageMath

[jovial turtle]

okay my hackers today i have some problem with my school mail on google. So someone was mean and did not clicked yes with the two steps loging... and did not let me log in. after many tries i got a comunicat that i have reached my limit with logging and i should try later or from another device, so i tried from phone and same thing i did not even log there and got the comunicat

a lil helples i know it is python server but i sometimes just fel dumb af

[plush galleon]

Do you really want to bypass the 2-step authentication to log in someone else's account?

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may break laws, breach terms of services, be considered malicious or inappropriate. Do not help with ongoing exams. Do not provide or request solutions for graded assignments, although general guidance is okay.

[plush galleon]

If your project is legal, you have to refer to #❓｜how-to-get-help

[ocean ledge]

what? i literally can't read this garble, can you clean it up and present your issue clearly, because i have no idea who is haxxoring who

[plush galleon]

I thought I was the only one in this situation

If I'm not mistaken, @jovial turtle wants to log in another student's account but this account is protected by 2-step authentication.

[jovial turtle]

it is all students in my school email im not hacking into someones, everyone has pass for it

[jovial turtle]

u got me wrong im sorry its mail made by my professor for all her students, she give us notes there

[plush galleon]

So everyone shares the same email address?

[hearty island]

I find that hard to believe

[jovial turtle]

i know its odd af

[plush galleon]

I find it impossible to believe

In this situation, the creator of the address would have to change the password or allow you to connect to the account

[jovial turtle]

we have our own mails given by school and one from our professor for everyone to share notes on, i know it sounds weird buy my teacher don't use google disc or anything like it so she made mail and gave us password, but someone made themselves 2 step log and deleted probably all devices taht were log-my computer included-

[plush galleon]

In this really hypothetic case, you'd have to send an email to the teacher

But this is not the place to ask for help

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[jovial turtle]

yes sorry i did not saw where i was typing actually i thougt it was the right one sorry

[plush galleon]

When you'll recognise the lack of lawfulness of your case, don't forget to ping <@&831776746206265384>

[jovial turtle]

i put it in a wrong words as a non fluent speaker so i now get how badly it sounded so im sorry yet again

[fringe pine]

@jovial turtle It's hard to understand what you are asking, and this probably isn't the right channel anyway -- this is a server for help with the Python programming language, not general tech-support. I recommend contacting your school/teacher to get this sorted out 👍

[ivory phoenix]

Hi guys, does anyone have any referral codes for Mine Pi? If so, please dm me. Thanks in advance

[snow thunder]

hi guys

[plush galleon]

I don't think that this channel (or any channel on this server) would be appropriate for this message

<@&831776746206265384>

[mild zenith]

Please do not beg for referral codes for anything. Also, keep unrelated questions or comments to the off-topic channels.

[ivory phoenix]

Got it

[hushed ocean]

Hey there,
Looking for a Python backend, fast API framework and Svelte.js expert to collaborate with.

Currently starting an online platform in LATAM and need help. #startup

[vast shoal]

Is this an open source project?

[marsh wind]

we had in my masters a single gmail acc for the whole group of 50

[sudden quartz]

good ol' career discussion

[hushed ocean]

No its a closed project

[pine iris]

hey I have a quick question
so I'm a bio major and my gpa is crap and I wanna cushion it with some biopython experience but since I am shit at self learning (plus the biopython tutorials are for basic stuff) I wanna take a course and I found one for 15 bucks.

should I do it? (I do understand basic python)
the sale lasts for the next 5 hours so if anyone has any input please ping me : )

[acoustic valve]

Hey

I am making a game who is good at coding?

[swift veldt]

look up the data structure specialisation on coursera by UCSD. It's got great content and there is a chunk on string parsing with an application on gene detection, which might be up your alley.

You can audit Coursera classes, iirc

so you could start there before paying for some classes

[pine iris]

https://www.coursera.org/learn/bioinformatics
this one?

[swift veldt]

no. I am refering to a 5-course specialization with a focus on data structures.

but it's by the same source.

[vapid jay]

is $1300 a week a decent amount for a python developer? I am currently being offered this.

[dry sapphire]

it depends on a lot of things; in particular, job scope

[vapid jay]

im making a simpl database that stores pdfs

there is a bit of php inside of the job but other than that it is mostly python

[pine iris]

list syntax is [] or {}

[dry sapphire]

it depends on a lot of things: job scope (which is more detailed than that), location, growth potential, hours worked, benefits

[summer roost]

What country? What's your level of experience? Does the job come with benefits?

[calm sail]

Correct me if I'm wrong but lists are only in [], and the {} is for dicts

[undone shadow]

i think its right

[dry sapphire]

...then why is that a referral link?

[vapid jay]

cause i share it through the link provided.

you can verify it.

[dry sapphire]

in any case, I don't really think it's appropriate for this channel

[vapid jay]

well if you think its not appropriate then i wont share it , i just share it in this server as it is related to python and for begenners to learn and geta certificate.

[blazing dew]

@vapid jay We don't allow those types of posts. Please reread our #rules and #code-of-conduct.

[vapid jay]

I have reread it and didnt find the problem , it would be inappropriate if i share a link for paid work, or virus link or advertising product or anykind spam but i just share the link of the workshop which is there to learn the python you can check it if you dont believe me and if you still dont like it then i wont share it but yet i didnt break any rule.

[mint hare]

Hi

[blazing dew]

As it seems to be some sort of affiliate link, I don't think it should be posted in any channel. This would go under the rule of no advertising as someone is making money off of clicks.

[plush galleon]

I guess that you are talking about Udemy. If your course in from Udemy, send a link. I spent so much time there that I could tell you if you should take time for this. But all of this is off-topic.

[vapid jay]

ok. Thank you for your help 🙂

[marsh wind]

what do you even mean by that?
Also I am not sure your profile pic is appropriate for this server...

[vast shoal]

I like it. The job is interesting and varied, I have nice and clear work-life separation so I have plenty of time for other things in life.

What does that matter if I love my job?

Yeah, I have a long and good relationship with my employer.

[marsh wind]

did you come here for something constructive or you just want to brag and belittle people who work a regular job the way they like it?

[vast shoal]

I know the leadership personally since many years.

They compensate me more than fairly for my services and I have great benefits.

[swift veldt]

<@&831776746206265384> Just reporting a troll with a likely NSFW avatar.

[plush galleon]

Which jobs did you create?

[buoyant seal]

Really thinking to change my job
I get only 1000$ per month
For doing job of
Middle python dev
Coding lead/reviews (no one else does)
Devops (no one else does)
Translator (no one else does)

I have a feeling, that I will not have a problem to find job with bigger salary

[vast shoal]

I don't know where you live, but it sounds very low for a developer in any developed country.

But, find a new position before you quit your old one, you have much better negotiating leverage that way.

[buoyant seal]

Mm yeah. Thinking same

Perhaps working one-two last weeks at the old job
Doing really yummi task, quite proffitable to my skills.
To finish it before sending CV

[plush galleon]

In East Europe, this salary looks about right

[gray anvil]

Oh my gosh that's quite a diverse portfolio

If any mnc comes to your country and wants to scale up you're in a good position at least

[still condor]

I live in Russia, and $1000 for a middle developer seems to be below average, looking at job postings. Although it's a good deal for a junior developer

[jade prism]

kewl

[humble kelp]

Hey there, ^^
I needed a bit of advice and help. I am nearing my graduation (an year left), and my uni will start having pre-graduations placements in a couple of months. Though I have made a lot of projects and worked with interview questions yet since I deal with anxiety and etc, therefore it is bringing my self confidence down. As the days are passing by, I am getting more anxious and confused as to what to do. If there's a recruiter or someone who deals with hiring people, I would really appreciate an insight or any sort of help I could get to calm my nerves. I have been failing to do anything because the anxiety and stress is just so much that I am unable to put my mind into anything.

[autumn horizon]

Hey, I'm in my first year, my uni has events every year where you can interact with employers and ask all sorts of questions, doesn't your uni have something similar?

[humble kelp]

No my country isn't really the best when it comes to good education or overall growth, sorry.

[autumn horizon]

Which country?

[lean patrol]

Hey Ladies and gents, do you have any experience on making professional powerpoints for an online interview?

ok

nice chat, see ya

[summer roost]

Here's some random advice, in no particular order:

• If you think you're bad at interviews, do more of them. Interviewing is a skill that you need to practice at, like any other. Consider doing mock interviews with friends or relatives or career coaches or peers. You'll never reach the point where interviews aren't stressful, but your 30th interview will be a lot less stressful than your 3rd interview.
• Remember that the people interviewing you want you to succeed - it's boring and uncomfortable for them to sit through an interview that you're doing poorly at. They'll try to steer you towards answers, or away from problems you're struggling with and onto different problems. Let them.
• Remember that interviews are uncomfortable for everyone in the room. For the people administering technical interviews, it helps to remembering that interviewing is only a small part of their job, and probably not their favorite part. They're regular people just like you, just with a few extra years of experience.

[humble kelp]

I am great at interviews, I am just not good with questions related to data structures and algorithms. And in my country "India", most people don't even get a chance to sit for the interview if they cannot pass those IT filtering tests. And the problem with those IT tests is that they ask questions related to trees and graphs, but for that, I'd need to re-learn c++ and java

These are a few of my projects that I did

>Motion tracking system through OpenCV and CCTV installed in my home then taking those screenshots and uploading it on a localhost built using Django and images being uploaded Requests
>Discord Bot which takes real-time data from website asynchronously also works and displays data from APIs, and also lets you send information to be stored to the database just through a simple text sent on discord
>A kind of replica of Google Home which tells me about my college timetable plays music, does google searches, and sets reminders.
>Selenium Freelance projects, for example, taking data from PDFs, filling and uploading that same data into forms, retrieving data, storing data from forms into excels, working with those excels.```

[summer roost]

ah, I see - but the same advice basically applies. If you're bad at the filtering tests, do more of them, do similar problems on leetcode or codewars, read up on DS&A using books like "cracking the coding interview", etc. Try participating in some coding competitions, or hackathons, or some other time-constrained things to get the hang of working under time pressure. It's weird and artificial and not really similar to day to day work you'll have in the industry, but it's a skill you can practice at and develop nonetheless.

[humble kelp]

I am on 4th kyu on codewars, how much do you think I should do in order to be interview ready?
I have participated in 2 hackathons with my friends but we didn't win any. We came 3rd.

I will read the books though, and go through some youtube videos about graphs and trees I guess

[summer roost]

3rd place ain't bad. I can't speak to a particular level you should be at on codewars, beyond saying that most interview problems are easy or medium difficulty - they generally won't ask difficult questions. At worst, you'll get one that has a naive solution that performs poorly and a better implementation that they'd prefer

[humble kelp]

Oh, I see. Medium? Hmm. Could you like send me an example of medium type question which you might think could come? It would help me clear a lot of my doubts.

[vapid jay]

@humble kelp if you don't mind me asking, why working for X entity if you can provide solutions online and get paid enough to invest in more interesting and rewarding projects?

[summer roost]

They may be things as simple as asking you to reverse a linked list with O(1) extra space, or something like that. "Cracking the Coding Interview" has lots of examples, though, and people recommend it highly.

[humble kelp]

I am sorry I don't understand what you mean. Provide solutions online? To whom? And I am not that good at it to provide solutions

[humble kelp]

Oh I am yet to touch on linked list, can I use python for it? Though I did do a question like this but it had a list. So I had to sort 2 lists without using extra space and having o(1) complexity. It was fun.

[humble kelp]

and honestly I just wanna make projects everyday lol. I wanna learn rasberry pi and do so much with it, and also do a lot of other cool things, but I am not sure if making those is going to help me earn rather it would be just a personal project i guess

[summer roost]

You can implement a linked list in Python, sure.

[fringe tundra]

There's a doubly linked list in the standard library, isn't there?

ah I forgot what channel this was lol

[fringe tundra]

how do you sort a list in O(1) time and O(1) space?

[true harness]

def sort(L):
  return L
```the assumption sort

[fringe tundra]

was going to say you could make a sort that is best case constant time but you can't even do that because checking if a list is sorted is at least O(n)

[amber peak]

ok

once it will be true

[dawn sage]

wanted to say again that i appreciate you guys here @icy berry @summer roost , reading what has been written here as "advices" , but more generally .. as a perspective of experience and a general discussion .
(theres a ton more members here that offer the same . i am mentioning the names i have repeatedly seen)

[tulip jewel]

Anyone ever go from dev to sysadmin/devops, experiences? I find I like playing with CI/CD pipeline stuff with a few work tasks recently.

[vast shoal]

I didn't exactly go from dev to full sysadmin, but working for a startup I naturally shifted into doing more devops tasks than when I worked for a larger company where I had a more specialized role. While I don't think I'd be interested in going full sysadmin, I think learning how to configure CI pipelines and work with cloud deployment should be part of your core skills as a modern developer.

[gray anvil]

I'm doing it right now on a fast track, I was hired as a python dev, but my title is devops and they're pushing me towards cloud deployment and AMI configuration and releasing at the moment

My org is really big tho so ymmv depending on how many hats your devops/sysops has to wear

[tulip jewel]

Sounds interesting, yeah allot of hats to wear where I'm at, my boss would always be happy if I wore more lol

[gray anvil]

I do configrule/lambda writing, AMI stuff and macie stuff

[serene owl]

anybody really good at java here?

[grizzled tundra]

Someone must be good at Java here

Guys how I develop an approach when I'm solving programming questions online? I am new to online programming and I get demotivated when i see some really good solutions and it makes me go, "how did this logic even occur to him?"

Also, I've seen the top guys usually having a similar solution

How do I develop that kind of a thinking?

[marsh wind]

lots of practice backed up with theoretical knowledge of DSA

[vast shoal]

Normally it's just a matter of experience. People coming up with very clever solutions have solved a lot of similar problems in the past using similar approaches, similar algorithms, language constructs, etc. Looking at other people's clever solutions is a good way to learn. When you're working on your own problems and projects, try to find ways to apply those ideas and see how they apply to your own situation.

[onyx cypress]

I want to make humans a type II civilization before the year 2070

[vast shoal]

That seems like a good topic of conversation in one of the off-topic channels. This is a Python developer career discussion channel.

[grizzled tundra]

Yeah, usually when I successfully submit my solution, I try and study their solutions and see how their logic relates to the problem and note it down.

I know there is no easy way to get good at problem solving. I'll really try my best.

[vast shoal]

The intuition will come with time and effort, don't worry.

[surreal spire]

Hi everyone, just wanted to ask if this post is still relevant or outdated

[vast shoal]

The contents are not outdated. Whether you can get a job in a year or not depends on a lot of variables, like where you live and what the job market looks like, and whether you can make effective use of the advice.

But if you follow the same steps as Josh, you're not going to be in a bad place.

[surreal spire]

Thanks a lot

[zealous path]

If anyone works in the defence sector and uses Python. What sort of coding do you normally do?

[desert moat]

Classified.

[zealous path]

XD
Cause I’m interested in mechanical simulations within Python and I’m wondering if that’d fit

[leaden jasper]

I use Python for essentially data analysis. So I'll use it to pre-process data, post-process data, and help analyze the results of simulations. The simulations themselves aren't run in Python. Python just isn't the right tool for that, but it's great otherwise and is a perfect glue language. Because I will deal with Program Managers who only deal in Excel or Word, I can write Python scripts to take the output of simulations/models and convert it into something readable and usable for PMs.

It's super useful when validating my models and simulations from the tests and experiments.

[errant fern]

That's interesting, I'm interested in the opposite, how do people use python in the offensive sector (penetration testing, assesments, yada yada)
I know there are plenty pre-written scripts and tools, like impacket, that are in python, but I want to include python in my cybersec journey so i learn at both at the same time

I guess it's very situational​, of course, but every time i think "can i include python in this (ETHICAL AND EDUCATIONAL) attack " I usually get the impression it's probably not smart to do so

I had the idea of making my own recon/analysis script for a good learning project though

[dawn peak]

k

[civic plinth]

if i want to be a data scientist, NumPy is a must as a python data scientist right

[peak halo]

Yep

[ocean ledge]

in MLE you tend to take on a crap-ton of hats... dev, researcher, infra, devops, etc. recently spent some time setting up k8s clusters for training-- so yeah, that kind of stuff is valuable

[vast shoal]

I have little experience with cybersecurity, but from what I've read I get the impression Python is a very popular language in that community.

On the offensive side, I mean.

[errant fern]

Yeah it has it's praise in the field, i've got a book that focuses on it's usage in pentesting and had quick glance throught it , most i do is find existing exploits online and see what's the thought process around them

[shut narwhal]

Hey, what do you think about college? Is it worth it?

[regal wedge]

Meh

Too much debt honestly but at the same time most jobs require it. Most of the times though you get crap jobs with bad pay if your over qualified for the job.

[meager ridge]

depends on what do you really wants... i'm from a major from out of the IT sector (bsc of engineering, mechanical and materials) but shifted to it... but i'm my country u rly need a degree

not on the technical skill... but it really counts on commitment...

[desert latch]

I have a degree in another field does it count ?

[summer roost]

What country? What field do you have a degree in? What job do you want to do? Do you have any experience that's relevant to the job you want to do, or have you taken any classes towards it?

[solemn raven]

Hey do U guys know what software engineers do?

[peak halo]

Create and maintain software.

[shadow moss]

American view, if you can graduate from State School in STEM field, it's likely to pay off but if your state allows it, I'd consider Community College -> 4 Year Route as well for costs reason

Elsewhere where debt isn't crippling, it makes sense to go in most cases

[peak halo]

if you can get a high-earning degree in four years at a four-year university, instead of doing it in 5+ years doing community college + four-year, the amount that you'd make if you had started your career that much earlier might exceed what you'd save from having done community college.

Plus the community college years were some of the most miserable of my life, and a lot of people I've spoken to seem to feel similarly

[shadow moss]

Depends, certain States allow transfer so it can be 4 years

[peak halo]

The sequencing of the in-major courses might be such that you can't do it in less than four years.

[shadow moss]

Also, if you dislike school, you can come out with Associates which is nice as well

[peak halo]

In my department, it takes at least four semesters to "unlock" the senior capstone, and in the other engineering departments it takes six.

[shadow moss]

just saying, it's an option and even with everything, looking at my local Community college vs state university, it's ~3000 per semester vs ~7500 per semester

also, my local Community college lets you transfer straight into local state college with 2 years, just pointing out, it's an option I recommend American High School students at least investigate

[mortal wedge]

Yes, very worth it. There are a lot of good career opportunities in college like internships and coops and the degree alone on your resume helps a lot for finding a job.

[mortal wedge]

Yes, along with pandas and matplotlib.

[mortal wedge]

What do you use for the simulations themselves? Matlab? Comsol?

[mortal wedge]

You can do mechanical simulations in Python, but there may be better (but more expensive) tools for it. I did most of my simulations in matlab, but most could be converted into Python if you have the knowhow

[mortal wedge]

What do you mean by defense sector? It's a broad array of topics. There's cybersec, there's radar stuff, there's electronics, encryption...

[mortal wedge]

The more hats you wear, the less they have to hire other people

[leaden jasper]

... Fortran :D

[mortal wedge]

Wow I did not see that coming

[vapid jay]

hghggyhg

[civic plinth]

@icy berry

thanks mod

is he banned

how is he not banned he posted literal cp

[mellow agate]

he is banned are you sure you're not seeing leftovers from cache?

[civic plinth]

usually the roles disappear

[mellow agate]

nah, that's just client cache

happens in big servers like this one a lot

[civic plinth]

ah okay

[civic plinth]

for my IGCSEs i have picked

Accounting
ICT
Statistics
Physics(not related to the job i want i figured im good at it and i enjoy it plus its mandatory to pick 1 science subject)
Computer Science

statistics should help in getting a ds job right

[keen jetty]

W

[gray anvil]

excellent choices

[vapid jay]

hello

[zealous path]

Kinetic/Mechanical so aeronautics, ballistics and stuff like that

[marsh wind]

Lol I did see that coming. C or Fortran, all HpC stuff.

[soft nexus]

hi

[eager needle]

not sure what the right channel is for this, but I am preparing for an interview on Tuesday and in this I will do some coding exercises in python... feel like I wanna make sure I am not missing stuff

so I have some general python questions... one thing I did figure out (thx to here) is that python's sort is fine to use as at least O(n log n). But say for python's list what is the reading/writing/deleting-speed? All O(n)? I guess pop and append are O(1) right and I can use a list as a stack with that

also is there a simple inbuilt search that's O(log n) on sorted lists? I guess list.index(element) is O(n)?

[true harness]

this is probably better for #algos-and-data-structs , but there is the bisect module

[eager needle]

ok I will move the discussion there^^

[vast shoal]

Indexing into a list is O(1)

[eager needle]

ok that makes sense^^

[winged cliff]

Hey guys, what's up? I'm wondering if someone could help me with a career advice. I'm an industrial engineering student trying to get a python jr dev job. I did lots of exercises and created relatively short but "complex" programs. I have only one complex and large program in my portfolio and it's a videogame using pygame. It consists of clicking in a crop and dragging it towards a field with many parcels where you can choose where to plant that crop (you pay for that crop with coins). The idea is that there are weather variables for each turn and different crops perform better under different conditions and depending on that performance you earn more or less money. The weather forecast is informed in a prompt that looks exactly like the one of the old pokemon gameboy games. I'm telling you this so you can have more or less an idea of how """complex""" (for someone like me) it is.

I enjoy solving problems where I have not that many tools but I have to build something complex with them using abstract thinking

I heard that the most easy to get job at entry level is web developer, Is that right?

[vestal talon]

can I get a job online if I completed all the freecodecamp courses?

[vast shoal]

That's quite plausible. There are a lot of webdev jobs.

[vast shoal]

Probably not. Without a degree you will generally need to build a portfolio of personal projects and any other credentials you might be able to scrounge up, like open source contributions and such. Having completed some online tutorials is unlikely to be sufficient.

There can be a lot of factors that affect your chance of success, like the quality of your code, how well you interview, if you do well in programming tests, if you're likeable and sociable, etc.

There's no guaranteed deterministic self-taught route to a job in software. The closest you can get to a guarantee is getting a uni degree, but even then it's not like it's a 100% guarantee.

If you come across as incompetent or a crazy person, you still might not get hired.

[buoyant seal]

even if you have degree, when you go for a higher rank I think you need portfolio ;b
or at least it should make things much smoother

[vast shoal]

Any credentials are likely to make things smoother, but there's also a shortage of senior developers, so I think you can get by on just a good track record of employment.

I definitely wouldn't say it's necessary to have Github profile.

[buoyant seal]

hard record of employment is hard to have
like... how the hell to count no-name startups?

or well, even if it is known name... it can be swamp in terms of skills

I think if your company name is not 'google', it says almost nothing

[vast shoal]

I don't think the renown of the employer matters that much unless you're trying to get a really prestigious job at a high-profile company, like FAANG.

[buoyant seal]

speaking about careers.
I like this image
I think I'll have it fulfilled soon

going to try in a few weeks
getting new job or having better salary
quite surely I'll get new job than having increase of salary at the current one

[vast shoal]

I get contacted by recruiters several times a week, and I have no FAANG employers in my resume, just 8 years of continuous employment in fintech.

And it's usually for senior positions.

[buoyant seal]

nice

[vast shoal]

I think most recruiters just abstract you down to "years of experience" and whether your resume matches their client in terms of buzzwords.

[buoyant seal]

years of experience%
in my company senior person was hired with 11 year of experience working in one bank%
where was almost zero of skill development, and only stagnation.

I hope to get into more 'alive' company next time

[vast shoal]

A GH profile might help if you have forward-thinking tech interviewers at the company, but I think if you do well on their programming test and interview well, having enough years of experience will probably be enough for them.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, sure, not saying it's necessarily a good metric, but I think it's the one that gets you a foot in the door.

[thick rune]

cs vs se degree for becoming a software dev

[dense geyser]

Hey, got a job opening - is there somewhere on this server that I could share it?

[leaden jasper]

Not on this server, no. This channel description does have a few places you could though.

[dense geyser]

thanks!

[vapid jay]

Um, is it possible to get a job without a degree, i am fine with almost any payment, i got 400$ a month as a waiter, anything above that would be great, i am not asking for a job here, i am just saying, with this requirements can i get a job, i've been working with C for 5 years and python for 2 years

[wicked bear]

Is it allowed to ping helpers if nobody answer in an help channel?

[summer roost]

No, and that's off-topic for this channel.

[summer roost]

So, you've never had a programming job, but you have 5 years of experience with C and 2 years of experience with Python for personal projects? Are any those projects open source? Can you show them off to hiring managers?

[vapid jay]

i mainly messed around with them, did nothing big except my operating system, i can show them that

I also never had a programming job but i used to make CS student's home works on fiverr

Just asking, what's .pop for?

[summer roost]

You've got basically three paths available to you for getting a programming job without a degree.

1. Apply to lots and lots of jobs, hope you get lucky. Having a portfolio will help, graduating from bootcamps will help, winning coding competitions or hackathons will help, taking one-off courses (especially in data structures and algorithms) will help
2. Try to freelance and build up work experience, on fiverr or upwork or things like that. It doesn't pay very well, but it gives you something you can put on a resume, and after enough successful freelance jobs you may be able to transition to industry.
3. Get a degree.

[vapid jay]

I will try 1st and 2nd option, i still have 2 years to finish my degree if i can write a thesis in time and i don't think about going to collage one more time

[summer roost]

what country are you in?

[vapid jay]

Turkey

[summer roost]

What's your degree going to be in?

[vapid jay]

physics(QED to be particular)

[summer roost]

I don't know anything specific about getting hired in Turkey, but I know that in the US, having a degree in any STEM field plus a few CS courses is generally enough to get hired for a programming job. Here, a non-CS degree is still much more likely to help you get a job than no degree at all.

You may also find that there are companies with internship opportunities available to you as a student.

[vapid jay]

so i think i should take one of those online degrees, right?

[summer roost]

not necessarily - if you're already enrolled in a college and working towards a physics degree, I'd see if you can also enroll in a few CS classes as well. Some of the more fundamental ones, like Data Structures and Algorithms, will be hugely helpful to you on a job search

That one would probably be the single most helpful course you could possibly take.

[vapid jay]

that doesn't really work that way because i am currently a PhD student. So i can't even pick some else physics class other than ones related to QED

[summer roost]

Ah, I see - QED requires a fair amount of simulations, right? Are you already doing some programming for your thesis?

[vapid jay]

not really because since it's improving science, i can only work from the experiments already made or designing an experiment, and currently i am doing one with already existing one, so i don't really use programming

[summer roost]

I'd say take a DS&A course online if you don't already have knowledge of that area, and then start trying to apply to jobs - I know people who've moved from physics (I think even from QED specifically, if I remember correctly) to software jobs; it's definitely a possible path. Books like "Cracking the Coding Interview" may also help fill in some gaps to make you more hirable.

[vapid jay]

thank you very much, do you have a recommendation on DS&A courses? I prefer lower level stuff, maybe something like firmware engineering would be amazing

[summer roost]

You're in a very different group from the average person who asks whether they can get hired without a degree here. Usually they mean that they're a high school graduate only. At your point you have a BS degree in a STEM field, which proves that you're able to buckle down and do work. And you'll soon have a PhD. All of those will be seen as positive signals from hiring managers. You may need to self-teach some fundamental concepts, but I'd expect you to be able to get a job.

[vapid jay]

thanks for bearing with me 🙂

[summer roost]

I have no specific recommendation for a DS&A course, though I think we might have some pinned in #algos-and-data-structs - it's been a long time since I was in college. DS&A is a weird mix of high and low level - it's basically all math theory, plus the actual implementation of data structures. If you already know C - and specifically if you know C better than Python - it may be worthwhile to see if you can find a course that teaches DS&A in C. It's basically learning how to build things like trees and hash tables, and reason about the performance of different operations on them.

learning them in Python feels a bit weird, because - even though the concepts apply, it feels like you're reinventing things the language already gives you as primitives. Like, building your own dynamic arrays, instead of just using list, or building your own hash table, instead of just using dict. Doing it in C has the slight advantage of not feeling like you're completely reinventing the wheel, even though all the concepts are the same.

[vapid jay]

thank you once again, you're the best

[winged cliff]

cool. Do you think that I'm able to call myself a jr python dev? I need to know bc I want to use that title in my resume but I've been looking at jr python dev job proposals and they ask for lots of abilites that I don't have at all , like being a backend dev knowing how to use django, build etl pipelines, rest api, etc. Although i have the endeavor to learn all of that I want to know if I can use that title today

[vast shoal]

If I were to hire a junior webdev, I'd expect them to either be familiar with at least one major backend framework and databases, or to be familiar with JS/CSS and one or two frontend frameworks, ideally with some sample projects using those. I'd expect any webdev to know what a REST API is.

[vapid jay]

Let's say

That I am a teenager and that I want to get a job as a coder. I know Python, CSS, HTML and some JS, I'm familiar with improvising AI models with SciPy and I made a functional web app. What are my chances of getting hired for a summer job as a coder/improviser.

[vast shoal]

That sounds pretty good for a summer job. Make sure your projects are on Github.

[lucid vapor]

So if I told you I know TypeScript, Next.js, Tailwind CSS and raw CSS, Django, and Postgres, would that be sufficient?

[vast shoal]

I don't know if there are any companies offering such positions to younger people in your area, but if there are, I feel like you'd have a good chance.

[vapid jay]

Lesss gooo alright thank you kind sir 🙏

[vast shoal]

Sounds good in terms of technologies, at least.

Probably doesn't hurt to also familiarize yourself with DS&A, time complexity and such as well.

And sample projects on Github never hurts.

[lucid vapor]

Makes sense. Thank you!

[mortal wedge]

It may be, but is that what you want to do? Taking a career path you're less interested in may hinder your ability to take a different one down the road.

[mortal wedge]

You'd count them the same way you do any other position. I've listed startups on my resume. Just list the company, maybe have a few words describing it if it's truly no name or can't be looked up (Ex: "CompuClimb: Software for rock gyms")

Even if they have never heard of it, it beats having employment gaps on your resume.

[mortal wedge]

While I'm sure there are differences that other people could explain, from a hiring standpoint those both would be fine for most.

[summer roost]

There's a lot of overlap. SE focuses more on design of software systems, and possibly some stuff about requirements gathering and project management. CS focuses more on the mathematical theory of computation. Both will be helpful in getting a software dev job. SE is most likely more directly applicable to your day to day job as a software dev than CS is.

[prime wind]

hey guys can you just share with me your thoughts/experience , i've learned python basics more than 20+ times over last two years and i switch to something else after that and the same loop again ,this consumed me much time(years actually) sometimes i tell myself maybe it's not the right place/field , maybe i didn't give it/myself enough time? and much of fluffy excuses
from just 2 weeks i started to learn html and i already know that i learned htm basics more than needed xD
and i know that i gonna switch to something else after a while

[summer roost]

So you've learned the basics over 20 times in around 24 months? It seems hard to believe that you forget everything you've learned every month.

[prime wind]

i already forgot the basics ,but it's not the problem , i switch over and over because of passion lack/boredom

[summer roost]

if you find it boring, why do you want to learn it?

[prime wind]

because if i followed this , i wont learn anything and i wont improve by a mile

[summer roost]

why do you want to learn Python at all, if you don't find learning Python interesting/enjoyable?

[prime wind]

to improve my career?

[summer roost]

what career do you want to have?

[prime wind]

any it related

IT*

[summer roost]

some IT related jobs don't need any programming ability - like, web design, or network administrator

for the ones that do require programming - it seems like, if you don't enjoy programming, you shouldn't pursue those jobs.

You could also try learning a different programming language, instead, and see if you find that more enjoyable. Something like Rust or Java is fairly different from Python, and you might like it more.

[prime wind]

i''m taking your advice , Thanks 👍

[summer roost]

Sure thing. I'm not trying to discourage you, exactly, but - if there's something that you don't enjoy doing, it seems like a bad idea to decide to spend 40 hours a week for years doing that thing. So, at the very least, it sounds like being a Python developer is probably not for you, if you don't enjoy what you've learned so far. You can try other types of software development, or you can look for things other than development that you enjoy.

[prime wind]

well if you're saying that , i am not enjoying anyshit but playing xD

[summer roost]

not everyone is passionate about their jobs, but most people at least find them basically pleasant.

most people would prefer not to work over having to work, but if you have to work, you may as well try to find work that you don't hate.

Not necessary, but probably helpful. It gives you a broader knowledge base, which opens up more opportunities for you down the line. You're still very young - you know that you enjoy Python, but it's entirely possible that you'll find something else that you like more if you keep learning about more stuff. Python developers don't need to know anything about how a CPU works, but C developers might, for instance. Or you might find out you're into robotics, or something like that.

I'd say so, yes. Not every developer needs to know about those things, but some developers do, so knowing them gives you more opportunities.

[prime wind]

i dont hate nor like it because normally i didn't see anything from it yet , maybe if i changed the way i learn it

i can make progress^^

[fluid coral]

Any websites Yall recommend to learn python as a beginner?

[peak halo]

We have a resources page on our website, though that question is not on-topic for this channel.

[fast totem]

Hey there,
I have a repo up on GitHub for a project I made for work. I have always worked on this alone, and didn't have the forethought to use a dev branch and pull from that when needed. I also have worked on this project extensively from 2+ machines, so I ended up pushing a ton of trivial commits just to get them from one workstation to another. As a result, I have a ton. Like 300+. A signifcant amount of them are just fixing typos and syncing between workstations...
I'm applying for jobs soon (trying to switch careers into software), and this project is 1/2 of my portfolio, so I'm afraid it looks tacky as hell.

Any advice for what to do in this situation? I'm aware of rebase operations like this https://www.internalpointers.com/post/squash-commits-into-one-git
But I've also read that this is generally something you shouldn't do. I don't really think anyone but me has ever cloned this repo -- would my situation be a justifiable case?
I don't think it would really be valuable to split hairs and try to sort them all out... Is it deceptive / would it look bad to just squash them all down into 4-5 commits?

[vapid jay]

Hello,
I am thinking of freelancing by coding discord bots for people. What should I set the price be?
the bots would have mod cmd, and other cmd s the person wants
would $10 sound reasonable?

[summer roost]

No one is likely to care how many commits you have, or how trivial they are. In fact, companies would usually prefer a larger number of smaller commits than a small number of large commits.

And having history that shows you were working on the same project for a while will look better than the dates they'd see if you squashed it into 5 commits.

[summer roost]

I have no idea how much people typically charge, or would be willing to pay, for Discord bots, but https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/15/camels-and-rubber-duckies/ may be an interesting read for you.

[vapid jay]

thanks lel

[fast totem]

that was an absolutely entertaining read, and yes -- by the end I'm not sure i learned anything from it

[cosmic hornet]

Hey I was wondering if Entrepreneurship and Programming go hand in hand since I’m a high school student who enjoys coding and would like to have a business or side hustle where I build websites and web applications

[amber lantern]

Hey. I have tried to open a web dev and marketing studio, named it AWC Studio. It wasn't very successful. The difficult part is to find clients. If you are sure that you would be able to find clients for this kind of services, then yes. It's pretty profitable tho. You can charge $499 for a landing page that you can create alone in a couple of days.

This is my experience, it may be not quite the same for every situation.

[true turtle]

hey @zinc badge, this is an English speaking server, so try to speak English to the best of your abilities.
Also, your message is off-topic for this channel. Try #python-discussion .

[vital sun]

👍

[granite gust]

Dear community, I'm looking for experience feedback about the jobs of growth hacker and business developer (in digital). If any of you do one of this jobs (or have a good grasp of the field), I'd be really thankful if you could share with me your experience, every day tasks or just your thoughts. Don't hesitate to message me. I may be a little off topic considering none of this jobs is properly speaking 100% about coding (although coding may be useful in it) if that's the case, I apologize. 😉

[marsh wind]

why is it here? it's in no way relevant to the channel

[near ocean]

And its advertising

[cobalt lark]

!tempban 828519839810322453 5d You have already been told that this server isn't a place to advertise your book. Since it seems that you are here only for that, please take this time to reread our rules and come back only if you are interested in Python.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @autumn nova until 2021-05-01 13:30 (4 days and 23 hours).

[fluid fern]

what am i suppose to do when a professor says this to you

For method length: no minimum. Not really a hard maximum either, but if it is long you should be splitting into helper methods. It’s a sort of intuitive thing.
For character length per line: unless it is really long (going off the end of the screen area) you should put 1 statement on 1 line, regardless of length. But if a statement is long, it may be worth splitting (and perhaps encapsulating in a method).

i got points off last time for a 50 line method which was mainyl due to the fact it was validating an input from a user

[true harness]

if you did really get points off for line length or amount of lines you should probably ask him to clarify what he means.

[fluid fern]

he said that the method could have been further divided and said the following "it looks like you can put this if statement into a method all by itself, not to mention all of these if statements' keep in mind that these if statements are only 4 lines long and that's including the if statement itself along with the parenthesis being that this is java code.

I just cant seem to wrap my head around why i would need to put all of these if statements into their own separate methods

[true harness]

hmm, let's move to off topic. ping me and I can try to help you since it's java

[fluid fern]

where exactly is off topic?

[true harness]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Their names change randomly every 24 hours, but you can always find them under the OFF-TOPIC/GENERAL category in the channel list.

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[fluid fern]

o

[peak halo]

Is it worth agreeing to interview for a position that I don't want and have already signaled that I don't think is reasonable? I figured I might as well go along with it for the interview experience, but if the HR person comes back and says that I need to review an academic paper or something before we can proceed, I'll have to tell them that I don't have time to do that and part ways. (I also think the HR person is trying to gaslight me into thinking that what they're offering is reasonable.)

[vast shoal]

What about it is not reasonable (aside from having to review a paper)?

[peak halo]

The salary that they're offering is way below market rate, and the benefits are nothing special.

I'm not sure that they'd ask me to review an academic paper. One company asked me to review two, but they were also offering 10k more than this company.

[marsh wind]

they give salary range before itnerview?
or based of glassdoor?
Also, review academic paper? huh?

[vast shoal]

That's what I was gonna ask

[peak halo]

Yes, they asked if I was willing to interview knowing that they weren't going to negotiate on the salary. They told me the salary, and it's very low.

[vast shoal]

I would not bother then

[marsh wind]

I say screw it if they said it that way. Unless you just want to interview for sake of it. That is you have time and ready to waste it

[vast shoal]

That sounds like trying to take advantage of your lack of experience

[peak halo]

Yes. They also asked if I'd be willing to start working part time during finals week.

[vast shoal]

If you want to go practice interviewing, I suppose it doesn't hurt, but I'd just go ahead and look for a more serious option personally.

[peak halo]

I've applied to like 70 positions at this point.

[limber rampart]

I recently helped interview a candidate who looked very promising, it was a 1 hour Google Meet where both I and the other interviewer spent maybe 2 hours each researching and preparing for the interview, so there was non-trivial time investment. At the end of the interview, the candidate thanked us for our time and announced that they already agreed to another offer. I was personally a little upset because I really could have used those 3 hours for something else that day, but the reason why I'm saying this is that when I mentioned it to my manager, they said that it's common and happens very frequently ~ it's just people trying to practice and maybe network a little bit. So maybe there is value in it for the candidate if people do it a lot, though I personally wouldn't do it since it felt a little dishonest. Whether it's worth it to you specifically, I don't know.

[peak halo]

They didn't say that they'd consider the position if your company beat the other offer?

[limber rampart]

No, they said they already agreed to another offer so they weren't interested in further conversation

well there's the option that they didn't like the interview but wanted to use another excuse, but I don't think that's very likely

[peak halo]

@limber rampart if I were in that situation, I just wouldn't agree to a subsequent interview and not really say why

[shadow moss]

Did they announce at end of interview that or later during follow up? I've gone on interviews knowing likely I won't take their offer but nothing is firm yet. Life changes.

[limber rampart]

Yea that seems like a natural way to go about it; it's not like they were being held hostage and needed an excuse to get out

[limber rampart]

Directly after the interview, when we asked them if they have any final questions or remarks, and they way they phrased it made it feel like they were already certain beforehand. But it's not that I'd have a massive problem with it anyway, more so wanted to mention it because of the insight my management offered.

[shadow moss]

I've never had that and I wouldn't recommend doing that. I'd just say "Thank you for your time" and when HR followed up for additional interview, say "Sorry, but I've accepted another offer since my last interview with you"

[limber rampart]

Yes, that feels more natural

[shadow moss]

However, I've sat in on several interview, candidates sometimes baffle me with their antics

[past grail]

does aynone have advice on what I should I do after learning the basics(only python no libs) I'm confused ??!?!

[fair sentinel]

Honestly, just start making things you want to make for awhile. It'll take time to learn, but gradually find a project that's just outside your skill set and every time you need to do something you're not sure how to do, google it. Eventually you might have to take some class or course to cover more advanced topics that you don't come across naturally while making projects, but for now that's what I'd recommend. I'm not an expert by any means though so while it worked for me, I'd take that advice with a grain of salt

[ruby gull]

hello guyss

[prime jacinth]

Whew. Just had my first coding interview, using Hackerrank, and that was humbling.

[summer roost]

People forget that interviews are a two way street, though - it's not just the company evaluating the candidate, it's also the candidate deciding whether the company is right for them. It's possible that they just went through with the interview out of a sense of obligation, but it's also possible that they went to see if your description of the job they'd be doing would blow them out of the water and make them reconsider the other offer.

[limber rampart]

Yea, of course, I know. I didn't intend to make this conversation about my experience though, I primarily wanted to point out that it may be something that people do a lot

[summer roost]

Yeah. Personally, I'd recommend doing the interview. You get some interviewing experience, you find out if what they're offering and the job they're describing is so good that you want to do it despite the low pay, and if in the end you decide not to accept the offer because of the pay, there's a chance they offer more in the end anyway, or keep your name on file and reach back out if a higher paying position appears.

I think it would be fine to say "that salary is less than I'm looking for, but I'd be interested in learning more about the role to decide whether it's worth taking a lower salary" or something like that.

[peak halo]

For the moment I'm waiting for them to get back to me about whether or not they'd sponsor me for a security clearance, or if the projects would relate specifically to my intersets.

[summer roost]

Sounds reasonable.

[peak halo]

Though at this point I don't think I can un-signal that I'm displeased with them

[summer roost]

That's fine, I don't think you have to. The goal isn't to be dishonest, it's to figure out if there's a middle ground that makes both parties happy.

It's possible there's not, but it doesn't hurt to find out.

[vast shoal]

It can even be advantageous to be frank about things like that. It signals that you have confidence in your own worth.

[peak halo]

If the guy ever gets back to me and tells me that they're not going to negotiate on the salary, do I tell them that I'm willing to proceed as long as they understand that they'd have to come back with a better offer?

[summer roost]

You don't have to say that there's no chance of you taking the job for the salary they're offering. Say that it's less than you're looking for but you're willing to interview anyway, and if the interview doesn't blow you away it's OK to turn down any offer they might make.

As long as there's a chance you might take it if something really impresses you, that doesn't seem at all dishonest to me. They need to impress candidates, just like candidates need to impress them.

[vapid jay]

Hi

[edgy trellis]

Hi

[tidal wadi]

Hey Guys, how much equity should a programer take in a project? Friend's friend asked me to create a service. I estimate it would take about 3-4 months full-time to create this App. I estimate its revenue from users can be around 10K eur/ month. So not much, if you'r splitting it. It's his idea, but from the idea to a working product, I would be the only one who can put work into the project, before it launches. After the launch - he has money and connections to push it further. I can also request a combination of % and cash.

[peak jay]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/mz4tdk please check it out :)

[summer roost]

I'd treat it as two separate questions. How much would you want if it were all cash? And how much of that certain cash would you be willing to give up to gamble on a chance at future profits?

[fair sentinel]

I'm not sure at exact advice but I would be careful. However amount you make in cash should ideally be enough to cover you if the app crashes and burns. For every Apple or Amazon or Uber, there's been 100 more just like it that's failed and left some people in a bad position.

[dawn sage]

i see request more cash.. and then take a lower percentage . (so they pick up on their own investment and their higher percentage ). Looking at ~25% .. and however much cash

with what Serdra said in mind , also

[plush galleon]

How much?

[peak halo]

50k for an ai engineer position in the washington DC area

[marsh wind]

Khm sounds like eu salary in us capital 😂

[summer roost]

Washington DC itself is relatively poor, though it has rich suburbs. That's something that may not be obvious to those outside the US.

[plush galleon]

Junior ?

[plush galleon]

I thought that you couldn't work in DC in finance, law or IT below 100 k

[peak halo]

Yes

[peak halo]

There's actually exceptionally wealthy neighborhoods and exceptionally poor ones. Not a lot in the middle.

[dawn sage]

glad to see the realistic information..

[ivory jasper]

hi

[dawn sage]

when its about where is most expensive to live , i see New York City is the best example that is largely known. (it's not the capital) .. and then theres california where it has very expensive cities (which is what most know about), and also i've heard of "normally" priced areas

[ivory jasper]

im new what dis server about

[gusty carbon]

the python programming language

[ivory jasper]

well duh but more

[peak halo]

@ivory jasper it is, quite literally, about the python programming language. We also have events and open source projects. Head over to #community-meta if you have more questions about what we do.

[ocean solar]

How does $84 a month sound for a start-up freelancer? I have a lot of doubts when it comes to pricing the services I offer and I struggle to make decisive price tags and ends up feeling undervalued. Any tips guys? Fyi, I write GUI applications with tools like pyqt5, pygame for commercial use

[buoyant seal]

$84 per month?
cleared my ears

[ocean solar]

Yeah, well, it has only been 2 months

[buoyant seal]

hard to say
how much hours do you spend to work per month?

[marsh wind]

also, what country is that?

[vast shoal]

$84.00 for the entire month? That sounds like almost nothing.

[thorn stone]

all python jobs seem to be Django ...

[violet bison]

i have been working tinkering with python for 3-4 years now. started working as a data engineer last year. is there any freelancing community i can join that pays based on work contributed ?

[true harness]

it depends what country, but in the US you can't live on that

[empty nimbus]

pygame?

[peak halo]

@woven falcon be sure that all your messages pertain to the channel topic.

[vapid jay]

you can barely live on 84 a day...

[wispy current]

Hey all, quick question

If you had an offer to do less interesting DBA work at a FAANG (SQL, queries, etc) vs more interesting dev work at a startup, which would you choose as a new graduate ?

[marsh wind]

• Depends ob the pay
• Depend on your career goals for future - dev work and DBA work probably differ a lot in skills and daily tasks
• DBA can be pretty interesting in fact, especially if you don't just do some db admin work, but also go about building proper DB architecture, optimizing it etc

[wispy current]

Good point on DBA, and compensation is the same at both

My bigger issue is that I'd be reneging FAANG, accepted it earlier this year before I heard back from anything else as it was an exploding offer, and as a new grad it's difficult to say no

If not for that really, I think I'd be set on taking the role at the start-up

[silent elk]

depends on the start up too

if it has a business model that isn't going to shoot itself later on, funding, culture etc

start up work will def. be more interesting and you will have more room to grow, depending on the company

[toxic dove]

hello im new but can someone tell me how i can run python on a chromebook

[wispy current]

Yeah that's true. Startup looks okay in terms of funding, they're 5 years in and starting to pay out performance bonuses so seems like a good sign

[summer roost]

Then take the startup job, I'd say. FAANG companies are big, it's not going to be a big deal for them if they lose one person. Don't be specific, you can just say "unfortunately, due to a change in circumstances I'm no longer able to accept this job" or something like that, and leave it at that.

[vast shoal]

You haven't formally committed to anything until you sign the contract, and yeah, being as big as they are, it's not like they're gonna hold a grudge against you. Not that I think smaller companies would either. It's just good business to choose the best option available to you before you make a binding decision.

[summer roost]

I've had someone accept a job, and then just... Not show up on their first day. That's annoying. Don't do that. 🙂

Other than that, companies expect that candidates are interviewing at multiple places and entertaining multiple options. They won't be offended by this.

[wispy current]

I have signed a virtual contract though, they had me sign it just a couple of days after i got the offer

Going to be pouring over it today to see if it says anything about reneging

[wispy current]

Otherwise this does make a lot of sense though : I guess I only feel half as bad considering it was an exploding offer with 72 hours to accept

[vast shoal]

I don't know how it works over there, but here a signed contract means I need to give a three month notice before quitting.

(usually)

[summer roost]

What country is this in?

[sudden quartz]

lmao
first day is hard to remember

[vast shoal]

Theirs or mine?

[summer roost]

Realistically, contract or not, you can contact them and tell them that you're no longer interested in the job. There's a 0% chance that they say "too bad, you still need to start, then give 3 months of notice". Your first 3 months will be spent entirely teaching you things. They don't want to waste the time and effort if you don't want the job.

[sudden quartz]

FAANG is much more stable no matter the circumstance

[vast shoal]

True that.

[wispy current]

UK, which would mean that within my first 6 months of employment i only need to give a weeks notice. That only starts on my start date, so I don't think there's a mandatory notice period before then

[summer roost]

I meant Noah's.

[vast shoal]

That 3 month notice is only used for keeping essential personnel around until they can find a replacement.

[vast shoal]

So yeah, @summer roost is right, if you tell them you want out their best option is just letting you go.

[wispy current]

I think I'm going to go for the start-up: Being a dev is more in line with what I want to do, and it makes more sense for me to take a position that would optimise my learning

I'm only just hoping that I won't be damaging this relationship beyond repair: Being an SDE at a FAANG would be cool, but doing Business Intelligence is not really in line with my long term career goals

[summer roost]

It might stop you from getting another offer from the same company for a year or two, at worst. I doubt it will make any difference beyond that.

The company just wants the best talent it can get for the money it's willing to pay. And the employee wants the best company they can get for their level of talent. And everyone on both sides of the table knows this.

[lavish bane]

Anyone here a robotics engineer?

[marsh wind]

!ask a question you have, there is always a higher chance to get a response that way

[placid coral]

I love robotics, I'm no person to ask! 😉

🤖

[primal saffron]

Hey, I am doing a project at school and it asks me to interview someone who is a professional software designer, so is there someone here who is a software designer and is willing to answer a few questions for me?

[slender goblet]

99% of what you want to ask has been answered by great proffesionals. Just try Google if u think it's not enough then u can come back here...

[hard lichen]

Hey guys, this may be silly but, is Codeacademy a good way for a beginner to learn how to code? I really want to be a software engineer, but I'm honestly just a little overwhelmed on where to start to have a successful career you know?

[lucid vapor]

Codecademy is a great resource. Although you should beware, because the free Python course they have is Python 2, not Python 3

[hard lichen]

I signed up for the Pro Version for 1 month, but is there anything else I should be doing? I feel like I'm so late for this. I'm 23 years old

[dry sapphire]

you'll really be late when you have 6 months left to live. a lot of people start much later than you! remember that the best time to start might have been a few years ago, but the second best time is now.

[polar olive]

In the center knows a trainee by lastname first name group and the
mark final :
1- write a program in python allowing to enter (last name, first name, group and mark final) of n trainees with dictionary and list.
2- calculate and display the general marks of stragiare to the class
3-display the name and first name of trainee with an mark over general mark of class with dictionary and list.

please i need help guys

[hard lichen]

Thank you so much. Everything looks so overwhelming, but I'm so excited to learn. Python is so fun

[pulsar drum]

This channel is about career discussion. If you need help with code, go to #❓｜how-to-get-help

[gusty carbon]

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may break laws, breach terms of services, be considered malicious or inappropriate. Do not help with ongoing exams. Do not provide or request solutions for graded assignments, although general guidance is okay.

[gray anvil]

I'd take the faang and either go for internal mobility or learn as much as you can there from what is likely to be industry best practice

You go to the startup as a grad, you're gonna pick up bad habits

Final point: whatever you're reading on your job descriptions might have very little relation to what you're actually doing. Doubly so for the startup

[opaque thistle]

Hi guys, I hope this is the right channel to ask for opinions about this: I want to create a whatsapp bot using Python that report to the users the status of delivery of their product. Any ideas of how can I do that?

[plush galleon]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[plush galleon]

You could try the free JetBrains Academy. It can be extended to up to 2 months.

[abstract breach]

All those who are employed, and use python for their work.
How did you get the job?

[vast shoal]

I got contacted by a recruiter on LinkedIn.

[abstract breach]

What would you attribute it to?

[vast shoal]

Attribute what to?

[gray anvil]

Being good at python and also having adjacent and valuable technical knowledge. For me it was knowing cloud and data fundamentals, for a friend it was data science and a data viz program etc etc

[abstract breach]

Sorry if I am being too stupid while using fancy words.
What would you attribute you being contacted by the recruiter?

[gray anvil]

Hitting keyword searches, to be honest. As soon as you have certain things you'll get mails

[vast shoal]

Ah, right, well, the job was fintech-related and I had working experience in fintech (though not in Python) and I also put on there that I'm familiar with Python.

[gray anvil]

The jobs are never just about python

You also need some sort of marketable domain experience/knowledge that makes your skills applicable

[abstract breach]

Makes sense.
What kind of knowledge are we talking about?

[gray anvil]

What kinda work are you looking for?

[abstract breach]

I am not looking for a job. I am currently studying in college.
But I want keep working on getting the knowledge about getting a job as early as possible.

[vast shoal]

I wouldn't say domain experience is critical, but it certainly helps if it's related to the position, as in my case.

My employers in fintech often hire people with only technical skills and teach them the finance stuff on the job.

[gray anvil]

Case study: some friends of mine from a data science boot camp I attended recently

Me:
Learned cloud certs, did a bit of data engineering related freelancing, now work in devops

Friend 1: used to work in marketing, now does BI and pipelines for their sales analysis teams

Friend 2: used to work in finance, now does model building in keras (i think)

Friend 3: was hr, did course, now back to tech firm as a tech recruiter

We all apply python in very different ways, so if you're in college pursue internships and other opportunities for experience in your preferred field

[abstract breach]

How did you acquire the skills and knowledge?
Through internships and camps?

[gray anvil]

All of us are mid career, so what works for us might not work for you.

Camps targeted at preparation for a specific field will ofc help
Internships etc etc

Remember that above all else you will still be evaluated on your ability to code. Someone from that course also interviewed for my position (so he got past the recruiter stage) and died in the coding challenge

[abstract breach]

ability to code

Okay that means problem solving, right?

I do competitive programming and work on my own small projects all the time.

[gray anvil]

Sure. I plant you in front of a reasonable python challenge, give you 30-40 minutes and see what you do, stuff like that

[abstract breach]

We have a professional communication subject in college.

The lecturer keeps saying

"Communication skills are paramount. Technical skills are okay but communication will get you the job"

Heavily paraphrasing

How much is this true?

[gray anvil]

Extremely true. I had two seniors, hired at the same time at the same level. One got converted immediately after probation, got a promotion, and left to be a senior dev elsewhere

The other is still here, at my level, never got promoted. Guess who is the good communicator

[abstract breach]

/taking notes/

[gray anvil]

People draw a lot of conclusions about you from how effectively you communicate. And a lot of them can be quite true.

This senior, they are incapable of teaching, dont read anything people send to them, write 5 words or less in all their git commits, etc

If I'm drawing the conclusion from interacting with this person that they are intellectually lazy... Well, I'd be right

[vast shoal]

I'd say technical skills and communication skills are about equally important.

If you're gonna be a developer, that is.

[abstract breach]

The unpromoted one, right?

[vast shoal]

Being able to communicate really well doesn't help if you have nothing to contribute, but it's true that it doesn't help being a fantastic coder if you can't collaborate and convey your ideas.

[gray anvil]

Yep

[amber magnet]

Help me

[abstract breach]

One got converted immediately after probation, got a promotion, and left to be a senior dev elsewhere

He left the job?

[gray anvil]

I think they got a big pay bump to leave, so go with blessings and all that

[gray anvil]

Agreed. The guy I said died at the coding challenge, great self marketer, not so great coder

[abstract breach]

Is remote only job a real thing?

I mean, I am looking through this site.
https://www.pythonjobshq.com/

[gray anvil]

Probably, but a bad idea innit. Out of sight, out of mind, and you won't network properly with the people who make decisions about your pay. You're a fresh grad, get in the office and make friends or something

[abstract breach]

Yeah though so.

BTW just started with college.

[gray anvil]

Hey, you're thinking about this early, which is a lot more than I could say about myself

[abstract breach]

I am a nervous guy. so, just trying to see what is going to come up in future.

[vast shoal]

I worked remotely for months last year due to the pandemic, and it worked pretty well. But, I'm not at the start of my career either.

[abstract breach]

Pandemic made us do a lot of weird stuff, didn't it?

[restive sapphire]

Infant to go in fortnite esports

[tender bronze]

@hallow lark hey bro

[hallow lark]

whats up bro

[tender bronze]

what do you wanna do in your life

[steady remnant]

Are UC Davis and UC Irvine good universities for computer science?

[marsh wind]

starting career remotely is definitely weird and can get you to feel a bit lonely, from my experience last year, especially if comapny does not have well established on boarding process

but certainly it's managable

[plush galleon]

"viz"?

[abstract breach]

Visualization @plush galleon

[gray anvil]

Powerbi, tableau, Google data studio, something like that

[sage trellis]

also dude i need more help in help lemon

[eager needle]

I have seen some cyber security trainee positions on linkedin which look kinda good (for someone trying to get into coding from fairly little background in this specifically), but kinda wondering if it's a scam tbh. Anyone got experience in cyber security job market (in Scotland/UK especially)?
Like this one seems less scammy https://apply.workable.com/e-careers-limited/j/FDD98722DB/?utm_source=jooble&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=jooble but then it's also some kind of online university and they don't advertise recruiting on their website from what I have seen
This one https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2522328284 is the one that made me really think there might be something fishy going on in general... Again no previous experience required, high promises of income, but then further down the line it has a tuition fee...

Would love to get some second opinion on it^^

[gray anvil]

A decent course run by a decent institution would probably put you back at least a thousand quid, so ask yourself whether or not it sounds too good to be true, or whether you're walking into something where they get that money out of you one way or another

[eager needle]

yeah the thing that seems weird to me is that these are advertised as "trainee positions"

that should be a job, not a course, right

but also the claim of cyber security having such a lack of ppl I can not evaluate, since I don't know the sector, so that's kinda why I took it here in case someone knows the field a bit

[gray anvil]

No presence on ofqual, so I'm not sure how legit their "qualifications" granted are. That said, I suppose it can't hurt if you apply and talk to them

[eager needle]

Thanks! Also I didn't know of ofqual, so good shout to check that

[vast shoal]

You can take a look at this Reddit post written by one of our members who went from knowing nothing to landing a Python job. It was quite a while ago but the content is still valid. Realize however that this isn't something you can realistically achieve in a short span of time no matter how you do it. You'll likely need to study for at least a year, if not more.

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/

[buoyant seal]

Big thanks
Really worthy to read

[wide pier]

Thank you @vast shoal

[fiery latch]

I had my first python related interview last Friday. I think it went well

Had to live code chunking a string and talk through my thought process

[gray anvil]

That's good! Did you make it all the way through?

[fiery latch]

yeah, it ended up being like 5 lines of code in the end. and it worked first try... almost unheard of

I messed up a database question early in the interview though, it's in HRs hands

[vapid jay]

Yo Im looking through this and now I understand what i have to do to master python tysm for this it was very informative and helps me and some of my friends out a lot! 👍

[zenith geyser]

ah this is indeed helpful

[vapid jay]

who can help me?

[marsh wind]

@vapid jay please check #❓｜how-to-get-help if you did not already

[calm vigil]

how much do master degree grades matter if i want to get into machine learning?

[true harness]

they don't really. you can get into machine learning without even being in a master's degree program

[calm vigil]

im actually about to finish the degree hence the question. i can get a merit grade fairly simply but if a distinction will guarantee me the job then i will push for it

[true harness]

oh you're talking about a machine learning job? I don't have experience in that regard

[calm vigil]

yeah im past the point of actually getting into the subject. sorry if that wasnt implied 😅

[lucid totem]

code = 💰 and 🤬 🔫

[lucid totem]

there are no wiser words... coding gives you money and frusration

[fiery latch]

It depends on the companies hiring policies. I have a PhD but had a hiring manager ask for my high school grades recently

The grades themselves (in general) are less important than your ability to demonstrate your skills

[calm vigil]

so would my time be better served improving my portfolio over focusing on getting a distinction?

[marsh wind]

that sounds extremely weird... like I would not even be able to find my school grades now.
possible even those from BSc

[fiery latch]

A distinction wouldn't hurt but make sure you've got a strong portfolio aswell

[fiery latch]

yeah i think i said initially "ohh haha i don't know" and she replied "haha, i understand... i do need them though"

[marsh wind]

do they have extensive background checks because of some clearense requirements or some other reason? Like... why would they need them 🙂
when I applied for PhD they already don't ask them

[fiery latch]

yeah i think they only cared about my bachelors for my PhD application

[marsh wind]

same. I would still think that asking for high school grades after master is more of an exception than rule. Also, in my case, I am now in a different country than where I did high school

[ocean ledge]

uhh, if someone asked for my high school grades I would turn down that interview, that's insane

[celest frost]

Any formal education gives you a bump in the list of to be interviewed. But depending on the level of the role (associate, senior, principal) experience and previous projects matter most. (that’s my experience interviewing for the company I work for)

[fiery latch]

I did, the job was also a bit buzzwordy and didn't seem like my jam at all

[vapid jay]

!warn 790508071071907870 Please don't dump memes into the server, especially in on-topic channels. Do also change your nickname to comply with our nickname policy should you choose to further participate in our community.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied warning to @versed cipher.

[calm sail]

I don't know about this one specifically, but a couple things to keep in mind 1. If you google just the business name and a company website doesn't come up, just links to linkdin or indeed, that's a bad sign 2. Make sure you read the contract, specifically things to look out for are training fees and what happens if you leave the program (sometimes you could be fined heavily even if fired)

[gray anvil]

Right exactly. Look up reviews by people who have done the course. If they're any good, you will find some

[gray anvil]

In my job searching experience, the less rubbish the place has been, the less they asked me directly

[long adder]

hey guys ive heard alot of people say alot of things

the main things are "most companys dont care about a college degree" and "you NEED a degree to land a solid coding job", from your guys experience, which is it?

[gray anvil]

The good companies usually care, the bad companies usually take anyone with a pulse. This is in Asia though

[summer roost]

both are half true. Most companies don't care about a college degree if you have previous coding experience, but it's a whole lot easier to get your first industry job if you have a degree.

[gray anvil]

It's because of where I'm from, but I really can't imagine anyone making headway in a technical field without at least a degree, even if the degree is unrelated

[summer roost]

yeah, this does depend on the country. My answer was from a US perspective.

[buoyant seal]

I would say, degree helps you to be really fast learner, when you get your first job.

You already know a lot of stuff, you just don't realize how to use it in a new language and environment. Which can be fixed much much faster than learning from zero.

Or may be people just learn how to learn in university? And those who don't, dropout.

shrugs, I guess more important having good self educating drive. Ability to learn any material fast, and being confident that you can do it, if you put enough effort. With that... university may be is not that needed. But usually people shape this skill there.

[gray anvil]

Can confirm, I learned how to learn in uni. My current job uses almost none of what I did in uni (econs) but the communication skills and mental training I got were priceless

[long adder]

i mean

im still only 14 so im a bit away, but im trying to have all my options laid out rather than thrown at me immediately after i graduate high school

[peak halo]

Even if you take the extreme position that the education you get from university isn't valuable, the fact of the matter is that most US employers looking for developers want to see that you have one and it would be difficult to accumulate enough experience to overcome that without one.

[stable kindle]

hi

[peak halo]

you're not required to know what you want to do in high school. if you're in a stable position, doing well in school is the best thing you can do to keep your options open. Computer science programs are probably going to look at your math performance especially.

[long adder]

sadly i didnt go into cs freshmen year (this year). I took digital media and spanish 2 as i only needed one more year of spanish because I took it in junior high. I plan on taking cs all the way from sophmore- senior year

getting all my required electives out of the way in summer school (consumer ed)

[stable kindle]

Any help for me

[vapid jay]

#bot-commands

[cedar cosmos]

some dont care about ur degrees, how old r u, who r u, all they care about is what u can do, eg Microsoft, Google

[gray anvil]

Wow, the most prestigious tech companies on earth aren't selecting on qualifications? Got me there mate

[summer roost]

In order to get a junior developer job, you need to convince the company that investing in you is the best use of their resources. All other things being equal, someone with a degree looks like a safer investment than someone without one. It's not that you can't get a job without a degree, only that it's harder.

[burnt wren]

My goal is to be an SE. My current title is "Media Assistant" and it includes technical aspects (programming: the whole project lifecycle; development, automated tests, deployment) and non-technical (editing, proofreading content).

Should I put the non-technical duty under my work experience, perhaps to explain my title "Media Assistant"? Or should I not and focus on my technical skills/projects/duties since my goal is to switch to a fully technical role anyway?

[summer roost]

I'd include both, assuming you have room, but start with the non-technical responsibilities first, using only a few bullet points, and list the technical responsibilities last, having them take up more room. That way it looks chronologically ordered, and focuses on the recent, most relevant stuff. They'll understand what you're showing

[summer roost]

I'd couple it will a cover letter explaining how you got started, how you wound up doing more technical stuff, and why you want to focus more on technical stuff going forward.

Actually... I'd do the technical ones first and non-technical second, now that I think about it.

[burnt wren]

It happened at the same time given I already had a technical background even before entering the role.

So either way, list the technical ones first. Thanks for the response, @summer roost

[summer roost]

Yeah, forget the "chronological" bit, then. Group them so that what's most relevant is first, and give the relevant stuff more space

[burnt wren]

I'm prepping my LinkedIn so in a way space is not an issue. But that could be a disadvantage too. More room for me to add stuff that may be mediocre and diluting what could have been impressive.

[late dock]

:Hmmmm:

[gray anvil]

@burnt wren some potentially related advice I got on the issue is that if you have had technical training from a reputable institute that is directly related to your current job search, put that institution in education rather than in certs so that it shows up in your LinkedIn headline

A lot of GA attendees do this and it does seem to work

[burnt wren]

GA attendees?

[gray anvil]

Oh right, General Assembly.

[cursive oasis]

hlo

anyone here?

[marsh wind]

many people. If you have a question just ask away 🙂

[lament cipher]

I wanna be cool programer i know skratch

[turbid crystal]

(indian doubt) Is btech better or mca better for college? As far I'm able to see, I can do mca for lower cost and less stress load and still get the same pay and job as a btech grad so why do people say btech is better?

[elder cloak]

A little kid here what is b tech and mca

[elder cloak]

Amazing you can already go straight to facebook with that knowledge

[turbid crystal]

In india, we have btech (bachelors of technology) where we can learn engineering in various branches and mca (masters of computer applications) is also a very similar degree but only for computer science

[elder cloak]

I am also indian lol i just needed to know what happens in my country

[onyx plover]

How do Indians get jobs?

[elder cloak]

We dont

[heavy imp]

Nailed it.

[lament cipher]

i know man i applied but there are hard stuff i need to make

[elder cloak]

India sucks in terms of many things

This is one of them the job market doesn’t get programming or give two shits about it. Either you’ll be paid shit or you will be asked impossible things for the budget

Plus they teach c++ version from so long ago like come on move to the new thing, yeah

[lament cipher]

no one fucking cares about india why are you speaking about it wtf

[elder cloak]

Eh

[tepid grail]

c++ is fast lol

[inland widget]

Hi everyone where can I find good tutorials on setting up computerlab for high school

[split sable]

Anyone got any advice for a Python newbie? And land a job?

[restive sapphire]

I want to gaming fortnite esports

[fiery latch]

keep a regular learning schedule. When i started i made sure to do a minimum of 30 minutes per evening of a course or book. If you are really new, learn the language first before starting with any frameworks.

once you have the language fundamentals. Try to start personal projects that relate to 1. your interests and 2. the area you would like to work in. If you want to become a full stack webdev for example make a personal webapp about your hobbies.

[split sable]

Thank you very much 🙂

[fiery latch]

The fastest way to learn (after you have the fundamentals) is to solve your real problems. For me this was data processing issues in my work.

[burnt wren]

Within the same organization, I moved from an explicitly technical role to an administrative title (albeit still containing technical projects). I’m thinking this may look strange to potential employers.

Should I put the reasoning behind the change in there, too? Or should that be better left for actual applications (cover letter? if not there, during the interview perhaps if it comes up?) A big reason behind the change is because of the prospective maternity leave.

This is currently a LinkedIn profile but thinking I would format my resume somewhat the same way.

[fiery latch]

You shouldn't put the reason behind the change (the maternity leave). You can give other reasons why you changed departments but depending where you are in the world, prospective employers aren't allowed to ask about maternity related things

[burnt wren]

Thanks @fiery latch

[sonic mica]

Which industry will be safer in the future? computer science or computer engineering?

with "safe" I mean the average salaries of the career won't go down in the future

[fiery latch]

that's a question for the crystal ball i think

[peak halo]

My guess is that the demand for developers will always be greater than the demand for computer engineers. The only person I know with an electrical engineering degree (which of course has a lot of overlap with computer engineering) works as a developer, though take my n of 1 sample with a rock of salt.

No idea about the salaries. This is all from a US perspective.

[sonic mica]

well, If I could decide to go for CS or CE, which one should I go for considering both have coding and programming

[marsh wind]

imo you should take the one that interests you personally more.

[digital fjord]

if you can't decide, I would talk to other students at that UNI and see if one maybe has significantly better teachers etc.

[true harness]

there's probably significant overlap between those two

[keen stratus]

hey Guys we as company want to expand our community of coders
here is a link to our website it would be grate if anyone would give us imput for ideas
https://gladnews.000webhostapp.com/

[sonic mica]

in terms of programming here, computer engineering focuses on lower level languages like C++, C, assembly, and some mid-level languages like java, when CS focuses on higher level languages like Python, JS, HTML and CSS if those count as languages

[true harness]

interesting. but you won't just be learning programming languages, you'll also be learning theory/applications which will probably be similar

[peak halo]

what distinction are you making between coding and programming?

[sonic mica]

https://www.codementor.io/@edwardbailey/coding-vs-programming-what-s-the-difference-yr0aeug9o

[peak halo]

sounds like that's just one person's opinion about there being a distinction. most people use those two words synonymously, though "programming" is more formal.

[sonic mica]

right, but those are the distinctions I am making between them if you're asking me

[peak halo]

This person also uses the word "codes", even though "code" is uncountable. this person doesn't even know what they're talking about.

[sonic mica]

well, I may be using the wrong resources

[true harness]

he is a marketing assistant talking about programming 🤔

[sonic mica]

thonk

[peak halo]

Coders only translate the requirement logics into a machine-understandable code without worrying about the details. But on the other hand, Programmers use to analyze and conceptualize different aspects of any program and also solutions to any problems that may or may not occur due to the process. It works on a much broader aspect than coders.
It appears that he's trying to make a point about how one can become a better programmer, but utterly fails by trying to make it about going from a "coder" to a "programmer" (rather than starting and ending as a programmer, but becoming more experienced). It's pretty pretentious.

I wouldn't make a distinction between coding and programming. you're just going to confuse people.

[sonic mica]

hmmm, alright

[burnt wren]

@sonic mica If distinctions has to be made ,"experienced" vs "inexperienced" may be more appropriate. Although it depends on what you want to communicate

[sonic mica]

I am still wondering if I should be going for CS or CE though, guess the only way to find out is to talk to students of each uni as lakmatiol previously pointed out

[peak halo]

CS is going to have more programming, as CE is hardware-oriented.

[lucid vapor]

Coding and programming are pretty much synonymous (at least the way people look at them), so you should never make a distinction based on those two words.

[sonic mica]

I was previously told a coder doesn't know the theory behind stuff when a programmer does lol

[sonic mica]

and I am interested in both

[burnt wren]

This is how I understand it too.

[peak halo]

the word "coder" is less formal than "programmer", so one could say that someone is a coder and not a programmer if they want to belittle that person and they're into no-true-Scotsman.

[burnt wren]

CE would have programming so if you are interested in both, that might be a good choice for you

[peak halo]

CE programming is going to be very low-level, yes?

[sonic mica]

yes

[digital fjord]

honestly, that distinction sounds like something made up by an old programmer who is pissed that kids these days get to make cool things without slogging through low level C and such.

[sonic mica]

CE is more oriented towards C++, assembly, C, Java (here)

[peak halo]

assembly programming is a much different game than programming in Python or even in C.

[true harness]

"back in my day..."

[sonic mica]

assembly is one of the languages, but not the only one

[peak halo]

assembly is more a class of languages, yes?

[sonic mica]

I don't know, never tried or looked at it before

[digital fjord]

back in my day, we typed out cobol on punchcards and waited 10 minutes for the computer to spit out an error due to misreading a punchcard and we liked it.

[peak halo]

if you tell a kid these days that cobol was on punch cards, they'll probably believe you

[sonic mica]

back in my day we used the enigma machine and decoded enigma code and we loved it

[peak halo]

Anyway, let's be sure to stick to the topic.

[sonic mica]

I'll ask a few uni students from both unis about their experiences to decide

[gray anvil]

Back in my day, you had to turn a hand crank to get your computer to work, but only for a few minutes. Everything changed when da vinci invented the steam of engine and we could power computers on a turbine. Ah the good old days

[plush galleon]

Could anyone give me an insight about a thesis title?

[kind egret]

Lol you are correct

In india a person get 1 lakh salary a month that too if he has 8year +
Experience

And a person with same skill in us gets much more than that even if he has 1 or 2 year experience

And the starting salary is so so low

4lakh per year like what 5000 dollar

[dire shale]

,

[inner quest]

hi

I have a question, what algorithms should I know to create an ia?

[dull sluice]

@kind egret lol ikr and teachers bad too not at all motivated

[vapid jay]

Thoughts on studying econometrics as opposed to CS at my college if I can't get in for cs? It's the only one I can commute to and it's top 50 in the USA. Worst case if I don't get in my plan is econometrics and cs minor, and I'll have data structures done by the time I transfer anyways.

I'm just trying to avoid having to move out of my parents house because it would increase my yearly debt by over 2x.

[frozen yoke]

Hi guys
I'm looking for a discord server
that can help me work online
can you help me

[vapid jay]

Hello everyone, can someone help me with my homework? Looking for someone who has work experience in programming or similar work. I would like to ask some questions about how their work experience.

[peak halo]

@sharp mica You can't solicit paid opportunities in this community. Refer to the Python job board in the channel description.

[somber galleon]

So helpful

[peak halo]

As we discussed earlier, there isn't a distinction between "coding" and "programming". There's just a difference in the formality of each word.

[somber galleon]

My question is, what programming language needed in order to be a software engineering?

What course or degree needed?

[peak halo]

The languages you need to know depends on what you're doing. Companies will often mandate that you use a particular language. It might be Python, but it might also be Java, C#, C++, or one of many others.

In the US, relevant degree programs include computer science and software engineering. I don't know what software degrees are called in other regions.

[quartz garden]

Is learning Python for Freelancing and making discord-bots a good idea, Since I am thinking of learning python for that, Website development is another Option for me as well

[somber galleon]

Thanks for the answer, I'm in Canada , What do you think about Bootcamp vs Diploma of CS or Master of Information systems and design?

[peak halo]

I don't think it's very likely that you'd be able to make Discord bots as a freelancer, but I'm not sure. Python has a pretty substantial ecosystem for back end web development if you want to go in that direction.

[peak halo]

A university degree is probably going to be more well respected by employers than a bootcamp. In the United States, a computer science degree if typically held in higher regard than an information systems degree.

[quartz garden]

I consider myself advance in Game-development in C# now, So I thought of learning Python next, But I don't know which should I learn, I want to learn something useful for freelancing in the meanwhile, What do you think I should learn?

I wanted to learn something different from the Game-development Category as well since I am quite tired of that and I have produced quite a lot of games by now, So this will mainly be for side things

[peak halo]

I don't know enough about freelancing to answer that question.

[quartz garden]

Hm, Everyone here seems to suggest something else from creating discord bots, Is it that hard to sell as a Product?

[somber galleon]

I see, is that mean is extremely hard to get a job as a software engineering without Diploma or degree at all?

[peak halo]

I don't know where you draw the line with "extreme", but in order to get a developer job without a degree, you have to have a lot more experience than someone who does. But then it's hard to get that experience in the first place without the degree.

[sudden quartz]

getting a job is one thing
trying to have a successful career in SWE without a degree is another
youre just not going to get the promotion before a CS degree

[somber galleon]

Hmm, true, Should I jump to Master degree of information systems without CS degree?

[sudden quartz]

Wait, do you have no degree at all or a BS in something unrelated? different scenario.
if you get a MS thats a popular pathway and a great compliment for an unrelated maor
MSIS is perfect for someone transitioning to the field for a job. Often thats who a program is geared to. Computer Science (abet accredited at least) is just a math degree in disguise. Its what Statistics is to Math. One could argue youre just as prepared for a certain kind of job as a CS major. (They should be better than you at software all around though)

[tender frigate]

i'm interested in this question

[somber galleon]

My bachelor degree is Biomedical Science, worked 3 years as business manager

[somber galleon]

It sounds like MSIS is better?

[sudden quartz]

oh stem? youre straight. and with a business job you should have no major issues getting a good job after getting a MSIS.
MSIS being better depends on that definition and what your goals are. Is it more respected? No. I dont know many MSIS are research related, and obviously since you want to do SWE, a masters in CS with a SWE concentration- if not a flat out MS in SWE would be better.

ultimately, for the best prospects in software CS is the way to go. and is probably the only way if you want to do scientific research. and with a BS in Biomedical Science and business experience, you could go either way. If you just wanna do SWE, a MSIS certainly works.

[somber galleon]

Thanks for the answer man, It's seems like MS in computer science is way better, but I don't think I will get accepted into Master in CS because most of the program asked me to get supervisor ( helping professor to do their research, I know nothing about CS, so how do I get accepted? )

[sudden quartz]

try to capitalize on your knowledge of computing in bio. Bioinformatics is actually a big CS area. As long as you had a good undergrad you probably have above average prospects. Some schools will let you take the prerequisite courses before entering the program too. Contact schools, try hackathons if theyre avaliable to you as a graduate, do projects, make sure they have bio or medical related research or professors. I dont know exactly your school prospects so I cant really help past this- and MS programs vary greatly.

The main focus is helping a professor with research. (and getting research experience in general)

[buoyant seal]

I just made a walk through university, and in faculty responsible for my MS program, asked every professor which topics they are dealing with/willing to offer. I chose the one, who was dealing with neural networks, because it was more programming than other more math heavy topics.

[somber galleon]

Thanks man, I just enrolled in hackathons

[somber galleon]

That's so interesting, I guess I can find some topics similar to that one, but do you have any programming work experience or degree before?

[buoyant seal]

Mm yeah, I had 4 years of study, bachelor s degree in heavy math/with some programming

In my country bachelor s degree takes 4 years, after which we can take 2 more years to make it master degree

[somber galleon]

ah, that helps with your programming, what country?

[buoyant seal]

Russia

[floral hazel]

hey guys, I need some help here:

I am a fresher who works as a data scientist in a startup. Currently, our company doesn't have enough data and resources to give me a good learning opportunity. So I am trying to improve myself by using external data sources. I would like to know what are the top industry skills that I need to get a job in a good company, and how I can get some experience in ML/ Big data outside my current company. Currently I know Python (Pandas (Pro), Matplotlib (Pro), Sklearn(little experience), Tensorflow(little experience) and I have started learning spark a few days back. I like ML and would like to focus on it.(edited)
[10:30]
If there are data scientists in this group who can guide me, it would be a really good help. Please tell me how you have done it.

[vapid jay]

Thoughts on a BA in CS vs a BS in statistics?

Context:

I'm guaranteed to get into the BS for statistics, then I'd minor in CS. Additionally, I am not guaranteed to get into the BA for CS until around January of next year, and they cannot tell me until then... So I'd be planning everything when they might just say no. Also with the BA in CS there is a 4x5 language credit requirement, in the Stats BS there is no such language requirement, so its an additional 20 credits freed up.

[fiery latch]

What do you want to do afterwards? If you wanted to go into machine learning the statistics degree with a minor in CS is a solid choice. If you want to be a regular developer... well both would be fine

[marsh wind]

What are your longer term career goal if any yet? Also would you like /enjoy math/stats?

[fiery latch]

Have you looked at kaggle? There are data sources and data challenges in there. As well as competitions to test yourself. There are a lot a write-ups about how people achieved their results too

[vapid jay]

Appears stats might be the way to go then

[fiery latch]

As long as you enjoy it and can do it

[floral hazel]

yes. thanks looking into it. are you into data science?

[fiery latch]

Not so much the machine learning side. (though i've dabbled) I'm currently on interview 3 of a data engineering position

[unreal bone]

Hello, I would like to apply for my first python job. I have no previous related job. Only freelance job and personnal project. What should I put on my resume to have a chance?

[peak halo]

I would present what experience you do have as best you can. So talk about the jobs you did and your projects.

[sudden quartz]

Thats an excellent combination. I have a BSCS and a minor in Math.
If you want to do Data Science, stay with stats for sure... those lang classes though might satisfy other requirements... check them

[crisp jewel]

Hello, I am currently in 10th grade in high school and am very interested in programming and i'd like to have a career in programming and I was wondering if self learning would be a better option then going to college as college is very expensive and in 2 year s I believe I could get at a proficient enough level to become a software engineer since I code multiple hours each day and wouldn't have to wait 4 years and pay a lot of money to get a job. For a little over a year now I've been coding multiple hours each day.

[empty ruin]

@crisp jewel Will the company hire you without the degree?

[crisp jewel]

yes

[buoyant seal]

self learning is always an option.
after I finished university.... I just non stop self learning to catch up ;b

but, the university is more or less import to learn how to self learn and to have 'paper' for easier getting first job

I guess if you have no problem with both things, may be you are good to go without it

technically higher education is also needed for a width of knowledge

but I somehow doubt that I will ever need all the math I learned
really, I need a small amount from it in programming

[crisp jewel]

thank you for the advice yea the main reason i'm considering university for the paper

I will get the AP CALC BC in high school and I doubt I will need higher then that for programming

it's really algebra which u need for programming I think

[buoyant seal]

perhaps think of an alternative way to prove you are worthy programmer
I am for example, making open source project, which I would show off to my new job interviews as proof of my skills

[crisp jewel]

yes that is what i'm currenty doing

[buoyant seal]

it can replace 'paper' perhaps, it is required for any high position anyway

[pastel quail]

yeah, linear algebra specifically (I think)

[crisp jewel]

but i'm going to continue doing that for 2 more years my plan is too get enough projects to show that I have to skill for the job

My current plan is to try to find a job after I graduate for 1 year if I cannot get one I will go to college

[buoyant seal]

sometimes I am having a feeling, that degree is only enough to get you only Junior position

any Middle+ position requires having projects to prove ;b

[crisp jewel]

yea and significant skill

The part about college which I do not want to do is all the extra classes which aren't CS such as science and other classes just to get credits

Thank you for all your help I gtg now cya have a good day and a good weekend

[shadow moss]

Reverse, most of time you get to middle position, your projects mean less because you have work experience. Also, most middle/senior developers have other interests beside coding so they may not have recent projects.

[buoyant seal]

hmm

[shadow moss]

If you spend your hours at work coding, you don't want to leave work and do more of it

[buoyant seal]

shrugs
I have motivation to do it at home too

[shadow moss]

Are you in the workforce?

[buoyant seal]

yeah

[shadow moss]

well, you are uncommon then

[buoyant seal]

5 days, 8 hours job
I just feel motivated to do it at home too
because it makes sure to have a reeaaally fast learning speed
and at home I more concentrate at learning, with coding as less

makes me feeling secure to find next job with easier and better paid

what I learn at home, I try at work ;b
making learned stuff even better learned

hehe, and stuff from work I try at home
a crazy cicle of constant development

I have like a queue of stuff I wish to learn in nearby months

[gray anvil]

Personal projects or work projects?

[buoyant seal]

in 99% cases you can show off only your personal projects code

stuff from work projects can be at best said in words/CV, what you learned/worked with
non disclosure agreemtns, you know come into your step

[dawn tinsel]

Pls share your github for reference

[dawn tinsel]

try freelancing bro

obv it's hard but it can help u tbh

[buoyant seal]

my current person project did not reach presentable state yet
planning to make it at the way in a matter of few weeks though, or perhaps a month

my speed for personal project is limited with my free time at weekends / eveinings

[dawn tinsel]

Ahh okay do share it once u have done

[buoyant seal]

All righty.

[fair obsidian]

The hardest thing about this field is figuring out wtf I should ask for in terms of pay

[stone nimbus]

Umm can someone help me understand the difference between data engineer and data analyst/scientist?

[vapid jay]

discrete mathematics
lin alg
calc 3 (if you go far into engineering or stats)
but usually calc 2 is the end of it for cs

[weak bloom]

An engineer is building the data storage solutions, while the analyst/scientist is looking at the abstracts. Like, the latter is going to be more concerned with what types of data, researching optimal storage solutions, looking for patterns in the data or ways to optimally parse the data, etc. The engineer is there to make sure it works for the intended use, and to fix it if it breaks

[vapid jay]

I have an internship coming up and they mainly use Python, what tools do companies usually use to test their code? Selenium?

[summer roost]

pytest and hypothesis are much more likely than selenium

@vapid jay unless it's specifically a frontend that you're testing, I'd never expect Selenium.

[buoyant seal]

btw, which python unit testing library has the most human like readable syntax for asserting?

[summer roost]

pytest - or maybe behave or robot, depending on your sensibilities

[buoyant seal]

add a bunch of static code checkers: pylint/flake8

optionally you can check unit test coverage with coverage

and add automated tool for style fixing like black/yapf

tox as optional to have offline pipline to quickly test your code in different python versions (github \ gitlab pipline runners do the same every time in online to every commit though)

I started to try my hands in mypy, it is awesome to make the python strong typized

[summer roost]

I'd recommend flake8 over pylint, personally.

And nox over tox, though that one's a bit more of a personal preference.

[buoyant seal]

the most important to set them working in real time with your IDE in my opinion, to each opened file
helps much more than just regular console running

[buoyant seal]

interesting, I'll remember to try some day

[summer roost]

well, we're getting well off-topic for this channel at that point - I don't have a strong opinion on this. Sometimes having the editor catch mistakes as you're typing helps you get it right faster, other times it's just a distraction. I think overall my preference is to integrate the linters into your editor, but have them run only when the file is saved, not as you type.

[buoyant seal]

mm and most importantly. All tests matter as long as you run them as often as possible with comfort and speed to yourself
so making comfortable click scripts for that is quite good in my opinion
plus in click you can put testing some functionality which can't be tested with unit tests unless you learn how to use stabs/moks

[vapid jay]

@summer roost @buoyant seal Thanks!

[vapid jay]

What sort of internships can I apply for with a BS in stats and a minor in CS? Would it be a waste to apply for general software engineering internships?

[granite chasm]

You could 100% apply for general software engineering internships.

If that's a career path you are interested in, it would be good to do at least one internship before graduating to see if you likeit.

[vapid jay]

I'm sort of focusing on a stats related CS portfolio, like a CS student would but I'll try and put all my stats projects on github and make them into software, do data visualization for all of them with matplotlib, etc

Then I'll also be doing back end dev and a bit of front end on the side.

Ok cool, I was just wondering if they'd see stats for a general front end internship and be like nah

[little reef]

How would I pursue a career in programming without any prior experience. I only have help desk and some system admin experience

[little reef]

Please @ me

[tall isle]

should you put your personal projects in the work experience part of the application?

[maiden solar]

not in work experience but in technical experience or just personal project

[distant drum]

is a cs minor worth it? i intend to major in physics

[night latch]

Hello everyone, I'm Cal and I'm 15 years old. Over the past year I've been trying to learn python and earn certificates in the process as well (from coursera) to build up a strong profile for my dream university. I've been lacking interest in it since a long time, yet I'm drawn to game development.

I'm not sure whether python is necessary for that, as lists and tuples don't really draw me in.

I wanted to know whether for a career in game dev (pc games), is python really the language for that?

Should I continue with python to make an impact on my college application, or should I start fresh with another language?

[vapid jay]

I'm just a student, but I'm enjoying my CS coursework quite a bit. Most interview questions you get will be covered by a minor as well, because you take data structures and algorithms in most CS minors.

[vapid jay]

well picture this scenario, a student just applied for jobs in ur company and he is willing to work for free and learn despite having 0 skills and 3.00 cgpa would u take him in?

Does any one know any good laptop with i7 12GB ram for coding/gaming?
under 800$

[nocturne latch]

Lenovo legion?

[vapid jay]

is it good?

isnt ram usually 8 or 16

[nocturne latch]

Yeah pick the 16 one

[vapid jay]

yes 16 if 12 isnt there

[vapid jay]

i have the 16 one and its quite good

[nocturne latch]

It's good, I use it

[vapid jay]

same hahaha

[vapid jay]

lenovo leigon?

[nocturne latch]

Lenovo legion

[vapid jay]

i dont think its under 800$

[nocturne latch]

Ohh I forgot about that , yes it like 900-1100$

[vapid jay]

does this seem like a good choice? https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Touchscreen-i7-1165G7-Keyboard-Fingerprint/dp/B08W54YSPW/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=lenovo+laptops&qid=1619875309&sr=8-6

[near ocean]

Guys this is career discussion, move to offtopic

[vapid jay]

if you dont get the basics, you wont go far kid. It is the cold hard truth

Gotta stay in the grind, it sucks in the beginning. Then when you get the basics down, you will go far. If its game development you are keen on, talk to people in the industry. There arent any game devs here.

[near ocean]

I'm not sure whether python is necessary for that, as lists and tuples don't really draw me in.
This doesnt make much sense imho
Tuples and lists dont make python, but they are undoubtedly a fundamental part of it.
Thats like saying youre not sure about english because you dont like the letters e or t

[night latch]

hmmm, i always thought that python was a data based language

[night latch]

so shall i learn the entire language? advanced, and all?

or should i possess moderate knowledge in the important ones

[vapid jay]

means, talk to people in the industry to figure out what language and platform etc

be aware of future horizons,employers and changing trends, because they affect job prospects..

[night latch]

thats good advice. thanks for your insight!

[kind egret]

Can I get a good job with JavaScript,Python,SQL,CSS and react

[lucid vapor]

That would depend on what field you want to enter and what kind of JS and python you know.

[amber trench]

do you use replit

[sudden quartz]

there is more to the job than writing the language

[ocean ledge]

maybe add C++, ocaml, and racket to the mix and you might be getting there

also just pick one and get good at it... no one will care if you've seen a lot of stuff but suck at everything

[marsh wind]

Tbh assuming you are proficient in those getting into web dev should be fairly straightforward

[lucid vapor]

React includes HTML, so I believe that was implied.

[grim star]

I have a React + Django + Airtable project. I’m using Airtable for managing products. I want to integrate a “user” profiles, to make “bids” on items. Is Django good for that?

If I create the front end and integrate my DB..... how much would it cost for someone just to create the profile side and implementing being able to log in users and place bids?

[summer roost]

Seems like this belongs in #web-development

[grim star]

@summer roost ok, I mean that more about “costs”

[summer roost]

Ah, I see.

[primal sandal]

I'm a sophomore, and want to build a portfolio for college, and I'm interested in taking CS. What activities and competitions should I participate in?
I'm a beginner and only started coding 3 months ago.
Thanks!

[cinder storm]

I want to become an coder i dont know anything about coding im super beginner what can i do please help me out

[vapid galleon]

@night latch From my limited knowlege, usually C++ is used for games, and usually Unity (C++/JS) and Unreal Engine (C#) are used for creating games. I am not sure if Python is used for making games as often.

[cinder storm]

I want to become an coder i dont know anything about coding im super beginner what can i do please help me out

[vapid galleon]

@cinder storm Start by learning the basics of programming and Python syntax since you seem to be interested in Python. Learn how variables work, for loops, while loops, if statements, ect. Make projects to get practice. The more practice the better you will become.

[primal sandal]

Please guide me as well🙏

[cinder storm]

But i dont even know what is syntax what is loops why we use them and all

[primal sandal]

https://youtu.be/rfscVS0vtbw

This is a nice video to start with Python

[primal sandal]

Any help please? 🥺
I have my summer vacations right now, and want to utilise them

[cinder storm]

Simba are you from india

[primal sandal]

Yep, but I want to apply to a foreign college
What country are you from?

[cinder storm]

Im also from india

But i want to make my carrer in usa !

[odd totem]

Think of a problem you need to solve, and try and solve it

Publish your code to something like GitHub, and then any future employer can see your portfolio

[calm sail]

Found a job posting in my area looking for someone with 6-18 months
work experience in Python and Sql hiring for 15$/hr

That seems weird to me, because you could get a job at a local grocery store making 16

[vapid galleon]

@calm sail Companies probably don't want to spend a lot of money on hiring people so they pay the smallest amount per hour that they are able to.

[primal sandal]

But can't people then copy my code and take credit?

[vapid jay]

How do you know you are ready to apply for a job? What kind of things would you need to get a higher paying job compared an entry level one? Other than knowing the basics of the Python syntax, what else should you know? Companies are probably hiring because someone is a good problem solver and not because they specifically know Python.

[true harness]

no one cares about your code, it's practically worthless unless you're designing some hyper optimized proprietary algo (which you're probably not)

[near ocean]

Python basics arent gonna get you a job, but you should still apply to jobs regardless of your skill level
Interviewing is also a skill you need to practice

[primal sandal]

But if I'm not making something important, how would posting it on GitHub help me?

[true harness]

they can be important to you, just not to other people

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks!

[true harness]

chances are, someone has done your project before. you haven't done it though, so why not do it

[vapid jay]

game/software development is my top.

[sudden quartz]

Hackathons. a lot are online right now.
Codesignal. or any online algorithm website
A book. go through a book on software engineering. some old ones are probably free online

[toxic ginkgo]

i need a job can any one have links to apply?

[celest steeple]

what is a hackathon?

[gray anvil]

What country even

[sudden quartz]

Hackathon is an event in which workshops on code or tools are presented and you submit a project in contest fashion

[gray anvil]

If it's a very basic, entry function, and it's your first job, you could do worse than take it and do it for a year

[reef lintel]

Uhh

https://youtu.be/_uQrJ0TkZlc will this course help me hopefully to learn Python

[vapid jay]

I need a suggestion for
I want to be a machine learning engineer but after 10 grade which subject I have to choose.? And what to do.?
Please help me

[buoyant seal]

machine learning is all about math and computer science

[vapid jay]

Ya I know but whato do which subject should I choose for computer science

[buoyant seal]

I have no way to know your system education, to know which subjects you have to choose

I guess you have some standartized US or european education with subjects like calc, calc2 and etc?

if yes, then I would be not of help, because I have no idea what exists in this system
in my country it is different system

[merry ingot]

I want to learn how to make bots

[stiff vine]

There are several tutorials on youtube

!site resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[vapid jay]

Most colleges dont care what you did unless there's some sort of institutional backing or award to it, i.e. a hackathon

Learning to program early on is a great idea before you major in cs tho

[fiery latch]

Its the other way around. Unity is C# and Unreal is C++.

[odd totem]

LinkedIn?

[odd totem]

As much maths as you can do, alongside any computer science/software engineering/... subjects

[odd totem]

Also:
https://www.python.org/jobs/

And https://www.pythonjobshq.com/

[primal sandal]

I know Python, but Python alone isn't sufficient to participate in a hackathon. So I'm thinking to start web development

[vapid jay]

It most definitely is

[primal sandal]

But I only know how to make the projects in terminal, don't know tkinter or flask or django

[astral sable]

Anybody can get me a Python based job

looking for one, I have been coding for 8 years since I was 12

[vapid jay]

it takes like an hour to learn basic tkinter or flask

[primal sandal]

Oh okay

[vapid jay]

flask quite a bit longer but a basic API can be done in like 20 minutes

[primal sandal]

Would I also need to know JS, html and css?

[vapid jay]

tkinter you can actually make an app in like no joke an hour

No, for back-end, only python
for front end yeah, js,html,css
for tkinter, just python itself

[primal sandal]

I did html and css two years, and haven't practiced since 😦

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks! Any more things which I should know about participating in hackathons?

[vast tapir]

Anyone know of cool hackathons/datathons to take part in?

[young smelt]

https://www.hackerearth.com/challenges/hackathon/ check this out.

[frank plover]

Hi guys

I'm seriously considering fully diving into coding as my passion, just wondering if anyone has experience with making money through coding with minimal experience

[granite schooner]

This might be a stupid question but what exactly is Data Science? What do you do as a Data Scientist? Which value does it provide?

[sudden hatch]

As someone who is a CS graduate and already knows programming, I'm looking for places to learn Python and it's applications. Most Python courses or tutorials I found were aimed towards beginners, so are there any courses or materials for a programmer who wants to switch over to Python? Thanks.

[vapid jay]

Wdym

[odd totem]

What kind of choices do you have?

[vapid jay]

I'm confused in what I have to choose for computer science commerce or mathematics

[grave nexus]

Hi, I'm a 20y/o computer science student, it's time for me to catch some experience in the profession, I mean internships in the area of data visualization and predictive model development. I have a strong background in python (I think), I know the basics in numpy, pandas and matplotlib. I want to create in 3 months 2/3 projects based on above mentioned libraries. And now here is my question. What kind of projects will help me find an internship and give me an introduction to the topic I would be facing at work?

[cerulean fossil]

@vapid jay
Sane with me

[gray anvil]

Don't skip the fundamentals. The only difference between you and a beginner should be that you pick everything up much quicker

[vapid jay]

Hey which subject you have choose for computer science commerce or mathematics ...?

[sudden hatch]

I agree. However, those courses at generally aimed altogether for someone who might not even be from the CS/IT background. Also, are there any courses, videos or materials you'd suggest?

[hot atlas]

https://www.pythonlikeyoumeanit.com/

[near ocean]

Fluent python i've seen is recommended for more itnermediate and advanced topics in python, but i havent personally gone through it

[sudden hatch]

Thanks will check it out.

[sudden hatch]

I'm not into reading books. Thanks anyways 👍