#career-advice
hearty island
yeah
hearty island
if it's not ATS friendly you will get auto rejected a lot
delicate bane
oh man i had a good website to check somewhere
lemme browse my bookmarks
10 hours later
hearty island
i mean it's fine i will still be here
omg i have to learn SQLlite 3 again
yayyyyyy
hearty island
Howdy, friend. We're experiencing 3rd party issues with Glide, and are unable to parse any resumes right now. Please try again later!
deft vortex
delicate bane
but this site was really good
hearty island
https://benjamins-goods-1.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/1pcs-crea...
dude this is off topic
delicate bane
spam?
hearty island
all good
delicate bane
hearty island
i was like noooo not again
delicate bane
also it was made by some new grads
for tech and tech-adjacent jobs
i forgot how i heard about it
ig a podcast?
maybe
anyway
all i remember is they used machine learning
hearty island
well it's down so F
delicate bane
i will check my resume against it later
hearty island
you know i saw a video about how this guy talking about coding interviews
and he was like
i don't get why people complain
if you want to be a doctor you have to take the MCAT and if you want to be a lawyer you take the LSAT
so why complain about having to do standardized questions that every field has
just an interesting perspective
my data science friends told me they got asked leetcode questions too
ocean ledge
for some jobs i got literal written math tests
but those jobs paid the best, so ymmv
hearty island
what does ymmv mean
foggy nebula
Is there a job board in here?
foggy nebula
ok, cool. thanks
glossy bane
what are your guys' thoughts on the Walrus operator?
near ocean
Not really careers related
near ocean
You can ask in #python-discussion
reef lintel
alright, got a good laptop and I want to code
Like i want to learn python for robotics age 15
delicate bane
Like i want to learn python for robotics age 15
!resources
inner wrenBOT
delicate bane
start here
reef lintel
ok will check out, thanks
hearty island
get resourced lmao
marsh wind
my data science friends told me they got asked leetcode questions too
Idk in my interviews there were few simple questions or coding task but none of them imo fell into DS/A category of leetcode usual suspects
Not us tho
hearty island
idk maybe new grads these days have it different
i know HTML devs who had to do leetcode questions
leetcode has just become a standard for the industry
delicate bane
i didnt have to do that so far but i think it just depends on how big/competitive the company is
also
why did i do my resume in latex
hearty island
what's latex
marsh wind
idk maybe new grads these days have it different
Define 'new grads'
hearty island
people who just graduated and got into the job market
marsh wind
It might be US standard but not EU also
marsh wind
OK yeah, never applied to Us
hearty island
yeah
marsh wind
They used on me a local analog of leetcode, codingame
But it's not heavy DS/A really, at least questions I had
delicate bane
mine have asked me about ds and ml stuff
hearty island
mine asked me about machine learning concepts when i just started learning about it and i got my ass kicked
it was the CUNA mutual group one
that interview still haunts me
hearty island
just shove all your projects in their face
and be like pls hire me
don't do that
marsh wind
mine have asked me about ds and ml stuff
is it for internships or actual full time?
delicate bane
Internship
hearty island
what company
marsh wind
maybe for internsips they also do differntly.... just sanity checks that you can code but ds/ml stuff they expect to be picked up
delicate bane
tomorrow or the one hes asking about?
hearty island
tomorrow
delicate bane
oh a local-ish company
marsh wind
idk about internship (never had one), my exp is job application
delicate bane
consulting
delicate bane
we shall see
marsh wind
good luck by the way
delicate bane
i will not hold my breath
hearty island
apple beat me to it
delicate bane
good luck by the way
thanks
hearty island
but wouldn't it to be cool to do it on your own??
idk if it would be impressive as a portfolio thing
marsh wind
weather? yeah.... not realistic
I mean
algo maybe, but you won't have the date they do
delicate bane
maybe for internsips they also do differntly.... just sanity checks that you can...
opposite here. they expect you to pick up coding and have solid fundamentals on ds/ml
hearty island
but you already know coding
delicate bane
at least for internships
hearty island
right?
delicate bane
i barely figured out enumerate today
marsh wind
hm ok. I was just making a semi-educated guess 🙂
hearty island
that's a method right
delicate bane
i was using the long way this whole time
hearty island
i forgot what it does
pls dude i literally learned what list comprehension was a couple days ago
delicate bane
i =0
i +=1
hopefully the interview tomorrow wont be coding heavy
or ds/ml heavy
or anything
hearty island
pls help i am under the water i am drowning
rex tbh i'm happy as long as i get paid well
neat haven
Hey! Has anyone earned money using your Django skills? How? Did you sell a website? When- and where to start?
hearty island
ok
neat haven
Nice! Keep that up!
ocean ledge
opposite here. they expect you to pick up coding and have solid fundamentals on ...
we had an intern (phd student from uchicago) a couple years back who had no coding skills at all-- whoever accepted him thought it was easy to just "pick up"
yeah, that was wrong
delicate bane
we had an intern (phd student from uchicago) a couple years back who had no codi...
rip. i mean if coding is essential to the role then thats a big mistake
hearty island
oof you def want someone who can code
although i do know someone who got into google as a product manager and failed the interview
but they had someone on the inside
torpid totem
lol my goal is to be product manager after a few years coding
hearty island
literally everyone tbh
even senior software engineers become their software versions of product managers
they barely write code they just read code and say it's wrong
lmao
torpid totem
if i could start off as PM right off the bat
that would be the best thing to happen in my life
golden tundra
if i could start off as PM right off the bat
You . . . can? There’s entry level product manager and project manager roles
As well as product owner roles
torpid totem
@golden tundra I know there is, however so from my knowledge I know it's a little bit more competitive/pay isnt there; so the route of working in the CS field for a bit first and then looping around could help
but i am still applying for PM roles if I see them dont get me wrong
I'm a very soft skills type a person w/ a good tech background so PM is lowkey where I'd flourish lol
plus all 3 internships i basically took a PM role while coding slightly
hearty island
My dad is a project manager
torpid totem
my dad is a lowkey deadbeat
hearty island
for canon
torpid totem
oh i thought we were flexing our dads
hearty island
but he doesn’t even know what he does he just yells at people about big picture stuff
he has completely forgotten how to code too
that is typical tho
you don’t use it you lose it or what not
vapid jay
H
delicate bane
oh i thought we were flexing our dads
torpid totem
<a:ID_BoomKek:663248902346113035>
that killed you didnt it
delicate bane
the best part was das just casually continuing on
hearty island
lmao
hearty island
Bro?
deft vortex
yo
hearty island
What is your Shopify link doing in #career-advice
deft vortex
It will make me a career pogu
peak halo
Is it common for those who employ engineers to provide them with access to safari books?
@hearty island @torpid totem @restive coral @delicate bane it looks like you were all engaging in off-topic discussion. Please don't prolong needless arguments. (I realize some of you may not be entirely at fault but take that as general advice. Contact @severe widget if you have any questions.)
peak halo
idk but that sounds super useful
I noticed that a pre-release edition of fluent python is on safari and if a future employer doesn't pay for it I'll lose my safari access when I graduate this semester.
delicate bane
ive heard of employers providing educational support, but you might have to explicitly bring it up in this case. but idk, id ask someone with more experience than me
shadow moss
Is it common for those who employ engineers to provide them with access to safar...
Generally not, it's more common to provide something with video instruction, but maybe you can expense it at some jobs, also, it's 50 bucks, big money when your college but not so much when you hit professional
peak halo
Generally not, it's more common to provide something with video instruction, but...
50 bucks a what? month?
peak halo
what about safari?
shadow moss
I mean, 50 bucks a month is step
but how many technical books do you expect to read?
peak halo
🤷🏻♂️
near ocean
The thing is, if your employer isnt excited about subsidizing learning opportunities...
shadow moss
my guess is it won't be that high
near ocean
Thats kinda bad
shadow moss
so 150 a year for 3 technical books isn't wallet breaking
maybe they will let you expense it
or they might have subscription but I've found companies prefer stuff like pluralsight
torpid totem
plural sight is definitely a great resource and i prefer it to udemy but it comes down to what you end up doing out of the career on your own time as well
little projects etc
basically, make a bunch of projects while you work and then when you get off work... make a few more projects for a better job
quaint hedge
is fiverr really the only site i can use to hire a freelancer?
it looks like its full of scammers
vital trail
i am currently taking system administrator classes, since i am learning python, i joined a week ago or so, and thought it is great idea, as there are people who are tech enthusiasts
primal axle
Is Pluralsight worth the money?
primal axle
It is somewhat of a website that can be used to gain knowledge on a variety of tech related topics. I think it gives certifications as well? Not to sure. I haven't tried out the website properly, and I really do not know about its usefulness and reputability.
ocean ledge
It is somewhat of a website that can be used to gain knowledge on a variety of t...
remember kids, internet certifications are worthless
focus on your portfolio and projects
hearty island
Period
ocean ledge
blogs and googling shit will give you 100x more value than video courses
hearty island
i see these people on LinkedIn saying omg I finished an online course on Udemy here’s my certificate
literally Nooooo one cares
primal axle
remember kids, internet certifications are worthless
Feels that way with many of these websites
ocean ledge
i interviewed a guy a few days ago who had a "databricks spark developer" certification or something
hearty island
A what now
ocean ledge
asked him a simple spark problem that shows up commonly in everyday use
primal axle
However I have found an interesting website named Coursera that offers certification from actual reputable courses. i took a look at their courses and they seem pretty good
hearty island
I see ads for databricks on my YouTube
ocean ledge
he bombed it, and subsequently i ended the interview early
hearty island
F in the chat
yeah if you have certificates assume interviewers will ask about them
so you better know your stuff
primal axle
otherwise S H A M E
hearty island
I know someone who copied all their project code from GitHub
the interviewer actually googled the projects in front of them and then started asking questions
yeah he did not get the job lol
primal axle
lol
dusty hinge
@ocean ledge I use pluralsight though lol.... I find it a great place to learn basics. After that I use blogs/google as I create and solve problems and seek different ways to handle specific tasks.
Also I think it depends on what kind of learner the student is. Sometimes they need that auditory stimulus to accompany visuals.
hearty island
Whatever floats your boat
dusty hinge
Pizza. usually.
What I'm saying does go in that direction though. No single learning methodology is applicable to all learners. So while certain sources can be more beneficial to some and less to others, there's still value.
timber lagoon
is fiverr really the only site i can use to hire a freelancer?
tell me what you need and i can try 😂
rancid ice
is it possible to solve captcha manually withpython on a selenium test
timber lagoon
is it possible to solve captcha manually withpython on a selenium test
sounds dodgy
and breaks capatcha ToS i think
sterile vault
Do you think that being overinvested in a narrow field is a bad idea? Currently I took a hourly freelance contract for FreeCAD macros development (FreeCAD is mostly C++ with Python wrappers). Well, because I wanted some work.
I won't say it's overly difficult, but the documentation is almost non-existent and I've never worked with CAD software before.
Client mentioned that that he wants it to be a long-term position (2 years), but I fear that after eventually ending it, I'd have a bunch of specialised knowledge, but I'll have to go back to starting rates, since that knowledge won't be applicable to other jobs.
I'm 29 with non-tech background who self-taught himself Python and I live in low COL area with low local salaries.
weak latch
Im 27 and still working for a company for 4 years now. And still using Nodejs and Angular 1 🤦♂️
sterile vault
Isn't Node pretty hot tech RN?
But I haven't heard "Angular" as a buzzword for a while, so it must be older than React 🙂 <- has no clue about frontend
spark tapir
unpaid internship lmfao
near ocean
The server prohibits unauthorized ads
wraith rover
!pban 274685460893401088 Spammer
inner wrenBOT
:ok_hand: applied ban to @urban ledge permanently.
still condor
digital owl
hey i got an offer from a company recently. they sent me a mail with the salary breakup and asked to reply to that mail acknowledging that i accept the offer. but they havent sent the offer letter for signing. i asked the new company and they said they will share few days before my joining (may 10th), they said that they have had candidates in the past ditching them for better offers by negotiating using the offer letter. im quite nervous about this.
is this normal? is that why they are not sharing offer letter soon?
near ocean
i would be very cautious in agreeing, even verbally to anything before looking at the contract
also, is it technically "joining" if you havent signed anything yet?
near fiber
👨🦲
golden tundra
hey i got an offer from a company recently. they sent me a mail with the salary ...
Their reasoning sounds very sketchy and so I would be wary, but for context - what’s the difference between offer letter and email containing salary for you? Is this a country where you need to sign a contract, for instance? Does the salary email only say, “This is the salary,” and not that you’ve even offered the job, so you don’t have any sign of your offer in writing? I’m trying to figure out what they could possibly accomplish by not having sending you an offer letter
digital owl
@golden tundra the email does say that i have been offered a job
clearly
and then it shows the salary breakup
golden tundra
I wouldn’t say “clearly,” your wording left it ambiguous whether they said in the email to accept using the email or they told you over the phone, etc
That’s why I asked
But if you’re in a country like the US where employment is at will, I’d say that’s more or less a written offer
Is there additional info in the offer letter (for instance, about benefits) that you don’t have without a formal offer letter?
golden tundra
Right, but I’m asking what the value in the offer letter is, essentially.
Their reasoning, no matter what, sound sketchy - you should want a candidate to accept because your offer is a good one, not by hiding information from them or by making it harder for them to potentially accept another offer.
But if a formal offer letter would have the same information as your salary email . . . they’re still being sketchy, but you have all the info you’re going to get from them anyways
An offer letter wouldn’t really affect things in that case
digital owl
well, they are quite a big company with 200+ employees
and they have been in news for doing great work etc
and the HR did say not to worry
golden tundra
But if you’re in a place where it’s contract-based, I would be VERY wary of accepting without seeing the offer letter
golden tundra
I wouldn’t trust HR in this case
Their interest is for the company, you’re an outsider right now
Of course they’d tell you not to worry
ocean ledge
yup
golden tundra
And please tell us if this is at will employment or contract based employment
That changes things materially
digital owl
what's at will employment mean? ._.
golden tundra
at will employment means the relationship can be terminated whenever either party wants
So you can quit or they can let you go very easily and there’s no penalties and/or procedures guaranteed to be in place
This is what’s normally done in the US, at least
digital owl
yea its at will
ocean ledge
lmao
golden tundra
Okay, it’s less of a red flag than with contract based (because if it was a contract, not sending you the contact would mean they could spring bad terms onto you at the last minute, months after you’ve stopped your job search and thought it was over), but it still seems sketchy that they would explicitly tell you they’re not giving you a formal offer because people use that to negotiate
In theory, you could just negotiate with the email you have from them
Is there info about benefits they haven’t given to you yet?
digital owl
um
not really
they just want me to join them ASAP but i told them i cant join them before may 10th (my notice period)
golden tundra
I do think it’s fishy, but it’s not like. The worst
I’d take it in the context of the rest of what you know about them
If you’ve seen other red flags, I don’t think you should take it
If they seem great otherwise . . . I’d be hesitant but would still consider it and would definitely do some more research on the company
digital owl
no other red flags, they company is kinda huge and the tech interviews went very well( the senior tech guy who took last round was SUPER nice guy)
golden tundra
Sometimes HR is really dumb and archaic
Hmm
I wonder if they’re somewhat hesitant about giving you the offer letter now because your notice period is so long
digital owl
no i confirmed with them if they surely okay with my notice period before resigning and they said clearly "yes"
they said they have had people join them after 3 months
golden tundra
No, that’s not what I’m saying
What I’m saying is that they don’t want to consider you official until closer to your actual start date
digital owl
uh
they even asked for my resignation letter
they have considered me official as per the email language
golden tundra
Okay, that’s a little weird
Wanting official proof of your resignation seems a little invasive to me
But that’s still not what I’m saying
In theory, you could still be job searching
digital owl
yes but if now they decided to not go with me, then that's a huge fuck up
i quit my company solely because of them
golden tundra
You could accept their offer, find another job before May 10 that you like better, and start with them instead
digital owl
if they dont give me the job, then that's really unfair
digital owl
yes
golden tundra
Okay then
Your tense use was confusing me
digital owl
they also asked the acceptance of the resignation letter which i also mailed
golden tundra
Look, I’m not saying they’ll rescind
I’m saying they’re probably afraid you’re going to rescind
golden tundra
That’s what I’m saying
“if they dont give me the job, then that's really unfair”
I’m not sure where you got this implication from
Because what this sounds like to me is that they don’t want to give you the formal offer yet in case you rescind and they’re just handling it kind of poorly
digital owl
yeah but i told them i wont ditch on them and asked that i could sync up with them every 15 days to assure them
ugh im confused as heck
keen seal
How hard is it to get a programming job if you only have a bs in Computer Science and no job experience in that field?
I'm asking because there's 2 universities I am thinking of transferring
University_A has more internship and opportunities but it costs $15,000 a semester for tuition
University_B, on the other hand, cost $5,000 a semester for tuition but lacks any internship opportunities
golden tundra
How hard is it to get a programming job if you only have a bs in Computer Scienc...
In my opinion, internship opportunities definitely help a lot
But it’s certainly not impossible to get a job without one
delicate bane
depends on your job market but i would say internships is worth it. plus if you think about it, internships are paid too, so its technically less than 15000
golden tundra
Internships aren’t necessarily paid if they’re for a nonprofit etc
golden tundra
I really think it depends on who you are
If you really want to get into nonprofit work
You’re probably going to have to strongly consider unpaid internships
vapid escarp
yeah but i told them i wont ditch on them and asked that i could sync up with th...
I mean in theory, even a formal offer letter doesn't mean much until you start. You could receive the offer letter and then day before they start they could reach out and tell you they are no longer filling the role
golden tundra
Nonprofits still use CS sometimes, I can see someone who’s passionate about both wanting to do CS for a nonprofit
This obviously isn’t going to be applicable to everyone, but I do think it’s worth mentioning exceptions to general rules
vapid escarp
If you are not signing a contract.. formal offer letters are basically word document with a letter head
keen seal
Will doing side projects help?
vapid escarp
If you want the job, take it. Put in your notice and be done with it. There's always risk involved
golden tundra
If you are not signing a contract.. formal offer letters are basically word docu...
Yeah, that’s kind of why I kept asking about what the difference between the salary email and an offer letter would’ve been.
golden tundra
Will doing side projects help?
Yes
vapid escarp
Nothing lol. I work in the USA.. I never received a formal offer letter outside of an email
And my organization is 50k + employees
vapid escarp
They give you a start date and you show up unless something says otherwise
golden tundra
What I think is more suspicious than the lack of a formal offer is the reason they said they weren’t giving it to Zephy
vapid escarp
Possible
But you have to remember that companies do have weird and unusual procedures
You're interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing you
If you're not comfortable then don't take it
tender mango
vapid escarp
Haha woah I like that one
If it's an established company I wouldn't worry much
If it's a smaller company, I can understand their logic even if it has holes in it
hearty island
wow #career-advice is popping
sweet solar
with a master degree in mechanical engineering can i land a job in AI ? considering that i knew how to code (python)
hearty island
god i have to crunch this project by summer otherwise i won't have a good project on my resume
hearty island
with a master degree in mechanical engineering can i land a job in AI ? consider...
do you know calculus, linear algebra, statistics, and probablility?
sweet solar
yeah of course i studied that
hearty island
have you done projects of your own with datasets?
sweet solar
yeah but it's mostly not very advanced projects
hearty island
like what linear regression on a kaggle dataset?
i think if you want a job at a decent company that pays well you're gonna need something more than just linear regression on a dataset
flat tree
You'll need to get lucky with not being immediately rejected on your resume. So it turns into a numbers game. Apply at lots of places and you'll probably get called in at a couple.
jolly furnace
linear regression still a valid model lmao
hearty island
yes but it wasn't enough to get me an internship
the interviewer was like we would have liked to see you integrate it into an app
also do you know SQL
SQL is very important
sweet solar
i mean what languages or courses i need to learn in order to land a job
hearty island
SQL
jolly furnace
yeah flask rest apis allow for easy integration of models
sweet solar
most people told me to work on projects
flat tree
Projects help a lot
jolly furnace
like wrap ur model with flask or sth and u got a decent web app
hearty island
i have a weird stigma w Kaggle bc everyone will be doing the same thing
jolly furnace
i mean yeah kinda
hearty island
i know people who just copy paste kaggle projects for their resume
jolly furnace
that happens even without kaggle
hearty island
it's very toxic
jolly furnace
like i have seen so many autonomous drone projects
hearty island
it's not impressive anymore
sweet solar
i mean if i have projects on my resume would it be enough to land a job in AI
hearty island
although if you are using it to solve a problem then it's very interesting
sweet solar
as a mechanical engineer
hearty island
depends on a lot of factors
sweet solar
what advice can you give me ?
hearty island
but i'm just a college student most of my knowledge is from reading or hearing other people talk about their interviews
uhhh i would focus on learning SQL
and thinking of creative projects
maybe take a look at some APIs and see how you can use machine learning with them
hearty island
sweet solar
i have a project in mind using computer vision
hearty island
that sounds good
sweet solar
opencv in python
hearty island
never used it lol
sweet solar
i mean it's an amazing technology
hearty island
yes
jolly furnace
u might wanna look at cnn
sweet solar
im working as a mechanical engineer rn but i will be focusing on coding at the same time
hearty island
good stuff
jolly furnace
bc its used alot in image recognition
hearty island
that sounds great
sweet solar
@hearty island what are you studying?
meager lintel
Opinion on data science major in college everyone?
hearty island
business analytics lmao
hearty island
i switched my major from CS bc i came into college without knowing coding or calculus
nearly died
would not recommend 0/10
don't do that
hearty island
my profs were bad
meager lintel
May I ask what college or too personal
hearty island
UB
meager lintel
Buffalo?
hearty island
yep
sweet solar
@hearty island actually i regret not choosing computer science as a major
meager lintel
@sweet solar what major r u taking
hearty island
eh i know self taught people who work at google
but they worked exceptionally hard
meager lintel
@hearty island should I become self taught before I enter college
hearty island
<@567030124306759710> should I become self taught before I enter college
some people here would disagree with me but i'd say it would give you an advantage over other students
hearty island
Idk where to start
!resources
inner wrenBOT
hearty island
here you go this is the best stuff to get you started in coding
sweet solar
i obtained a bachelor in mechanical engineering and a master degree in industrial engineering but later i found out that i was very passionate about coding especially AI
meager lintel
@sweet solar have u heard of the major data science
@hearty island how hard would double majoring be lol
hearty island
why do i have this urge to quit my project and just go back to hackerrank
sweet solar
@hearty island thank you, what do you wanna do after you graduate?
hearty island
<@!567030124306759710> thank you, what do you wanna do after you graduate?
i'm between SWE, DS/ML, and game dev
i was initially going for DS/ML but i didn't know enough math so it went all over my head
!resources
inner wrenBOT
sweet solar
software engineering are the most paid i think
hearty island
for FAANG companies sure
sweet solar
are you thinking about launching a startup or something?
hearty island
no lol
sweet solar
working for someone always sucks no matter what you do
a startup would be an escape and working for something that your truly passionate about
hearty island
shrug
sweet solar
if i may ask how old are you?
hearty island
19
sweet solar
Im 24
hearty island
cool
sweet solar
later in life you will understand what Im talking bout lol
hearty island
deletes it so no one else sees
sweet solar
lol
hearty island
good shit
sweet solar
what's your job title ?
hearty island
don't have a job still a sophomore in college
sweet solar
where are you studying ?
hearty island
you too dude
hearty island
actually it's not that bad lol
how much are you making as a mech engineer?
hallow fractal
So I was recently laid-off due to COVID, so I want to work from home learning to use python to support myself. Where do I start? So far I've got vscode and have been watching random YouTube videos.
vapid escarp
You should go talk to Professor Guttmann in the eco department
hearty island
oh is he cool?
vapid escarp
Yea
hearty island
where do you work now if you don't mind me asking
delicate bane
i was initially going for DS/ML but i didn't know enough math so it went all ove...
you could still do it. math can be learned. its up to you dude
hearty island
you could still do it. math can be learned. its up to you dude
yeah i'm slowly teaching myself the math again
the books you sent are very helpful
so thanks
patent terrace
Any programmers from Bangladesh?? Would like to meet someone.
delicate bane
why did i just have an interview where the interviewer got nervous
he ended up adding his boss to the call
@hearty island
im like...
dude i already interviewed with your boss once already
hearty island
that means you definitely got the internship
hearty island
i saw on tik tok that when they say do you have any questions
you should say do you have any hesitancies with hiring me
hearty island
the ones who can become managers
just like the people who can talk and code become product managers
or project managers
delicate bane
you should say do you have any hesitancies with hiring me
so aggressive. if that was my style maybe
hearty island
companies like bold people
delicate bane
yeah i get that
bold people tend to go for bold positions tho
like
the C-suite
hearty island
they want the people who ask the hot girl to dance
that's what i heard
hot girl or guy or it it's 2021
before someone corrects me idk
delicate bane
canceled
hearty island
i'm trying to finish this damn project but this flask tutorial is literally asking me to copy paste their code
how is that gonna help me learn
delicate bane
are you applying to more internships?
hearty island
yes
delicate bane
i think im going to tonight
hearty island
i don't know if i'll have this damn app ready in time
hearty island
what company
hearty island
yes that's what i'm gonna have to do
delicate bane
guy just asked me what troubles i ran into
i wanted to say everything but i was professional instead
hearty island
oh god if i tell them i didn't understand some of the flask syntax are they gonna say no
delicate bane
bc it was an interview
hearty island
in reality we all know projects are people scraping code together from github and stack overflow
and acting like they know what they're talking about
delicate bane
oh god if i tell them i didn't understand some of the flask syntax are they gonn...
no way people are looking stuff up on documentation all the time
hearty island
i got hated on so much bc i was like what if i took some github code for a login page in HTML
yOu nEeD a LicEnSe
delicate bane
i like the YTbers who show all the errors and googling they do in their tutorials instead of cutting stuff out
bc its more realistic
hearty island
ken jee did a whole project from scratch
oh yeah should we be in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval before some mod comes and says we're off topic again
delicate bane
the glassdoor one?
hearty island
yes
delicate bane
about job descriptions
hearty island
yes
hearty island
i don't think he was allowed to webscrape glassdoor actually
delicate bane
last charm
Any tips on getting a job doing anything python related? I seriously cannot find a dang job and I've been looking for well over four months now. Any tips, advice, suggestions, etc would be super helpful!
hearty island
@last charm no interviews nothing?
last charm
<@262808077957332992> no interviews nothing?
nah
hearty island
ok what jobs are you applying to
Like SWE? Data science? Product manager?
cyber security?
Your resume might be the reason if it’s been 4 months and nothing
hearty island
What he said
last charm
Yeah so I have a college class, I've gone through a book on making python games, and I'm going through freecodecamp stuff
I've been applying to a few data analyst positions and more software development type jobs.
I'd eventually love to get into cyber security, but I think that is more for going the IT help desk >> system administrator >> cyber security route, no? I couldn't get a cyber security job with just a degree in physics and some python background, along with that black hat python book right?
hearty island
No projects?
last charm
I don't think so. What do you mean by project?
And thanks for the help btw, I appreciate it!
What would be some good cyber security or software developer type projects?
hearty island
Um a web app for software people
And I can’t think of cyber security ones bc I don’t really dabble in it
meager lintel
I need a recommendation for college majors
Should I go for data science or computer science?
whole furnace
Computer science
rigid pier
computer sci
whole furnace
DS is hell without a CS background
meager lintel
ohhhh
rigid pier
its will be not hard if you you love the subject
whole furnace
love doest help believe me
rigid pier
love for what
whole furnace
its will be not hard if you you love the subject
.
hearty island
I know people who loved cs and still quit bc college made it hell
and I know people who didn’t even know how to code that are seniors now in CS
people are very unpredictable is what I’m saying
whole furnace
i just go to college to get the degree lol
hearty island
lmao I switched my major bc I came into college without knowing how to code and I didn’t know calculus
so I got my ass handed to me
F in the chat
whole furnace
im still in CS and have like sticked to a single language and just expanded on tochnologies
hearty island
What language?
hearty island
my freshman year they taught python and JavaScript
dark lintel
Hi again. What projects can I develop for standing out of the crowd in DS (as a beginner) to get a remote job (while living in 3rd world)? (No degree, yet)
hearty island
Also scala
dark lintel
I know pandas, seaborn, scikit learn, already done some projects
hearty island
@dark lintel use machine learning to predict the scores in sports game before they happen
dark lintel
Should I scrap my own data?
meager lintel
@whole furnace u recommend starting with Python
meager lintel
:((
whole furnace
i kinda can help u with queries but cant mentor
meager lintel
Okkk
dark lintel
So, let's say I manage to develop a complex project and write an outstanding ML paper in 1 year, could I get a good job by 2022?
meager lintel
So I should start with Python, then what? @whole furnace where should I start
Like what tutorials should I start with
hearty island
@dark lintel I’d say perhaps
dark lintel
My soft skills are good, I guess
whole furnace
lol jobs are a complex topic. if u have impressive working knowleged u will get a jouner level job
dark lintel
I will focus on studying. Anyways, I've a very nice side gig for income
whole furnace
@meager lintel i really find tutorials lame so i started with a complex project and built on from there
dark lintel
studying + projects
meager lintel
@whole furnace How do I start with a complex program without any knowledge of python
dark lintel
<@541809827177824267> I’d say perhaps
why?
whole furnace
@meager lintel u can if u are optimistic
hearty island
there will be people who are more qualified than you applying for the same job
whole furnace
like learn to implement stuff and algorithms
dark lintel
Then should I focus on web dev although I don't like it?
meager lintel
@whole furnace maybe I’m just stupid
sterile vault
What's realistic hourly rate for a junior? Non-native English, no CS degree, so landing a fat FAANG is obv out of reach.
I can find work, but have zero idea about market price beyond "I'll slowly raise rates until people stop paying them"
dark lintel
I want to make a living out of this
dark lintel
What's realistic hourly rate for a junior? Non-native English, no CS degree, so ...
Share your technique, lol
meager lintel
@whole furnace so should I take code from a company and just mess around with it and experiment instead of tutorials
whole furnace
or u can start with implementing Data structures
hearty island
@meager lintel do you know the basics?
sterile vault
Be in low cost of living country, lol.
Also, good cover letters and communication.
dark lintel
Where are you from?
meager lintel
@hearty island no :/
hearty island
@meager lintel then learn the basics first
meager lintel
@whole furnace what do you mean???
hearty island
!resources
inner wrenBOT
whole furnace
https://github.com/UGLYclown999/Apollo if u look back u can see all the weird code i have written and now @meager lintel
hearty island
This will guide you
meager lintel
How do I start implementing data structures without knowing basics
dark lintel
Be in low cost of living country, lol.
Also, good cover letters and communicatio...
I meant, how you get the jobs lol
hearty island
Don’t do that
meager lintel
I’ll learn basics first then break apart codec
hearty island
Don’t implement data structures before the basics
sterile vault
Upwork.
hearty island
other than lists and dictionaries
lists and dictionaries are like the only data structures you need to get started
just saying
At least that’s how I was taught in my intro class
dark lintel
Is upwork worth it? I think it's a race to the bottom
Competing with Indians (no offense)
hearty island
None taken as an indian
meager lintel
@hearty island so should I learn lists and dictionaries
hearty island
but I was born in the US so
dark lintel
Yeah, quite an advantage
sterile vault
10-20$/hour for a noobie. Dunno how high I can go, that's why I'm asking.
Local jobs pay 1k$ for a junior. Worth for me, dunno about you.
meager lintel
Thank you @hearty island
dark lintel
Indian born in US, no degree> PhD in Sweden (?
dark lintel
10-20$/hour for a noobie. Dunno how high I can go, that's why I'm asking.
Local ...
Yes, they pay the same. Or even less because of high taxes on low wages
whole furnace
Phd is only valid if ur going to participate in research
hearty island
I mean google picks up phds no problem
whole furnace
but phds take 4 to 5 yrs minimum
dark lintel
20 is too low anyways, you have to discount upwork fee
You can increment after some months, but I think It's still not worth it
whole furnace
wages depends on the country ur in
dark lintel
Not really
whole furnace
because the value of money differs
sterile vault
Also, taxes. Taxation in Russia is quite favourable for freelancers and healthcare does not depend on employer like in US
whole furnace
but u cant expect to get paid like 20$ in a country that it somewhat like 200
whole furnace
yeah
dark lintel
Decent wage, 40k +, period
whole furnace
like $ hold different value in dofferent countries
dark lintel
Everyone wants a mortgage, have a family, have a car and stuff
Not a fancy lifestyle, just living a good life
You can't achieve with less than 40k
So you'd better be qualified for global market, and speak good English
whole furnace
as im in india i m comfortable with anything that i can feel comfortable with in an hr mostly i choose to be like 5 to 15 $
because if my client is indian it cant be arount 2000INR an HR to sum up to like 100k or something a week thats way more money than u can get in a yr
sterile vault
Well, everyone wants lots of money, but everyone has a price.
Because why pay 100$ to a new guy if that money can get experienced dev.
whole furnace
so the wages depend on the living standards and the value it holds
dark lintel
Well, living standards in India may be low
dark lintel
Well, everyone wants lots of money, but everyone has a price.
Because why pay 10...
You mean hourly pay?
whole furnace
no the value of INR is
dark lintel
Or per month?
sterile vault
Obviously hourly
whole furnace
compared to the dollars we compare it to
dark lintel
Oh yeah of course. No one is talking about $100 for entry level. We are talking about $20 (just a price I set)
whole furnace
so im comfortable in 5 to 15$ price range an hr and this also depends on the future support and stuff
sterile vault
Local markets are cheaper, but i tried local freelancing and it's a true race to the bottom. Only those who didn't learn English stick around and it shows.
whole furnace
its not about english its about how u sell urself as a product
the better u sell the more u get paid
dark lintel
Don't forget about networking
leaden sleet
dark lintel
The more people you know, the more chances to get a good job
leaden sleet
That's all I can get to show in snek
whole furnace
lik i have 2 professional level projects and 3 research papers and im also learning management skills
leaden sleet
Snek isn't working on phone
dark lintel
Do you have a degree @whole furnace ?
whole furnace
not yet on it
2yr in uni but i consider it as a vlidation of my knowledge that i have knoledge in this field
dark lintel
Yes, same here
sterile vault
Btw, i did some quick calcs and even FAANG (i've heard about around 120k/year) is 57$ hourly for juniors, and that's cream of the crop.
dark lintel
So? lol
sterile vault
So even 30$ could be considered success?
whole furnace
@sterile vault it completely depends on the market
dark lintel
$30 but get 10 hours a week, not so much
whole furnace
i prefer to work at startups have interned in one. the pay isnt much but its more flexible for skills development
ur not bount to be a part of an autonomous machine
@sterile vault so in general if the job wages will completely depend on the market ur offering the service to. FE u cant ask 57$ in a somalian IT market
sterile vault
Get 4 10-hour contracts then, lol.
But realistically, it seems that actuall billable workload is closer to 4 hours on a job, not 8, so FAANG rate is around 120$, and 40k/year is 40/hour.
dark lintel
I was told by a guy from Ghana that salaries there go from 50k-150k, and I was like WTF
leaden sleet
Yes
dark lintel
Get 4 10-hour contracts then, lol.
But realistically, it seems that actuall bill...
Not so easy to get all those contracts lol
whole furnace
@leaden sleet can u stop the spam
leaden sleet
leaden sleet
<@!389841806025687050> can u stop the spam
Uoy on
It's no you backwards
XD
0xff
Bored
sterile vault
But there's one global market, thanks to the internet. Stuff like Fiverr, Upwork, Indeed. Where are both indian freelancers and USA clients.
There are local markets, but mine sucks and USA/EU (where they want a local worker, else it's part of global) is unaccessible.
leaden sleet
deroB (bored)
sterile vault
Startups seem cool indeed, though it probably worth more to senior devs.
whole furnace
@dark lintel education there is more expensive then the job market
dark lintel
I said a masters, let's say it costs 20k, still worth it
whole furnace
@sterile vault nope u just need a great vision
dark lintel
I think the problem here is that we lack years of experience
+5 years of experience will always be in demand and well-paid
whole furnace
i just have 6 months
dark lintel
So, being underpaid 5 years doesn't sound too bad
whole furnace
on a DS startups
dark lintel
Well, it actually is
but if you think about future, it really doesn't
If you know AWS + Data Pipeline + ML and have +3 years of experience, you'll probably land a good job, wherever you live
That's my opinion, at least
sterile vault
Indeed. People say mastery is 10k hours, and I can't imagine spending less to grok all the stuff software dev takes.
Still want something for bread and caviar along the way :)
dark lintel
Yeah
idk how old you are, I'm 20, so I have time to plan ahead, and side gigs, so I'm OK anyways
sterile vault
ML is tough. I'd say it would take at least half a year to a year of focused learning to get maths for it.
dark lintel
But I want to gain experience in the field while studying (students take full time jobs in my country, not internships generally)
dark lintel
ML is tough. I'd say it would take at least half a year to a year of focused lea...
I love maths 🙂 . If you need help let me know. I've been working as a Math Tutor for 3 years
You should get familiar with multivariable calculus and statistics
To get the grasp of ML algorithms
sterile vault
Hah. I've had some stats in uni, but I sucked at it hard.
Also, probably won't be able to solve a single differential equation now.
On the other hand, likes coding even when it was only a hobby.
dark lintel
I'm not good with diff equations either lol, depends on the complexity
Some are f*cking hard
sterile vault
Thanks for the offer!
What's your top 3 books for people who suck at math?
whole furnace
@sterile vault Most ML is abstracted so u will be ok with no maths but maths behinf the function is imp to understand the model itselff
dark lintel
<@!294170444796526594> Most ML is abstracted so u will be ok with no maths but m...
Not really....
That's completely untrue
whole furnace
@dark lintel how
dark lintel
steven strogatz "the joy of x"
dark lintel
<@!541809827177824267> how
How can you understand how gradient descent work if you don't know what a derivative is?
sterile vault
Scikit-learn goes brr.
I've considered picking it up just to ride ML hype wave, but only future will show it it will work out.
Thanks for recommendation!
I'll check it out.
whole furnace
@dark lintel Most ML is abstracted so u will be ok with no maths but maths behinf the function is imp to understand the model itselff thats whay i said lol
whole furnace
most libraries are graph based so u jest need to plan out ht e data processing
ML in complicated to the data side of things maths is complex but data processing is way more comples
dark lintel
Follow this route @whole furnace , SQL -> Python -> Numpy -> Pandas -> matplotlib, seaborn -> scikit learn
Then TensorFlow and Keras
You can do it in a year at a "slow" pace
Or freak out and put in 12 hours a day for 2 months, as I did lol
whole furnace
@dark lintel i kinda have done that now im kinda working on a data processing pipeline thats more of AWS hive and hadoop
dark lintel
Data preprocessing is not that complicated. You have to deal with outliers, missing values, invalid values, labelling categorical data, feature engineering to create more valuable features, GroupBy
sterile vault
Also, deployment. Picked up the basics of Docker in a weekend and it's def worth it.
Now I have a container with local Spark and exposed Jupyter ports for ez testing.
Def not stolen from stackoverflow.
whole furnace
AWS, is a think i know of that supports deployment of Models and also handles data storage
dark lintel
Are AWS certificates worth paying for?
whole furnace
yes definately and also a TF
dark lintel
TF?
sterile vault
I highly recommend picking up FastAPI next weekend ao you can run scripts with requests instead of SSH.
dark lintel
are there certificates for TF?
whole furnace
yes
sterile vault
I missed free virtual training day for Azure from MS. Apparently missed a reminder. Could've got free exam access.
whole furnace
im holding back on cerification because if i land a job i can approch the employer to pay for that cerifications
dark lintel
How much does TF certificate cost?
dark lintel
WTF
whole furnace
last i checked
dark lintel
Did you pay for it?
whole furnace
nope i still dont have a degree lol
and the certification is not worth if im still in UNi 3
dark lintel
So what? You could still do it
It won't expire either lol
I'd do it if I had time to prepare
sterile vault
Are there free certificates worth shit?
I have from Kaggle, but i don't even bother putting them in portfolio.
whole furnace
if ur kaggle profiles is great u can attach it
ppl attach useless things lol
u sure can attach a kaggle profile
whole furnace
ok biee
sterile vault
Well, mean the ones like "SQL basics" or "Pandas", basically a tutorial. Not actual prizes in competitions.
Good luck!
sterile vault
Indeed. But not basics seems to cost money, like the TF one you mentioned, or something like Oracle certs.
whole furnace
they certify u to develop the technology
hasty harness
Hello,
Can I add projects on my CV/Github which I made watching Youtube videos?
whole furnace
nope
youtube projects are kinda still a tutorial
u will need to mention the guy u learned it from too
sterile vault
Who's gonna stop you, on the other hand?
whole furnace
is it ur original work
sterile vault
It's just I haven't seen projects on YT worth following beyond the basics.
whole furnace
its like uk copying code from SO and saying its my project
i agree code will be same but in a broder view of things it looks repetative
hasty harness
its like uk copying code from SO and saying its my project
I see almost all full stack developer at beginner level have some clone website in their CV
whole furnace
its my preferences lol
like what i would prefeer not to do
if u fork it and edit its fine
because u give credit to the original owner
hasty harness
OKAY, i have learned some basic things in python. I dont know the next step. Project Ideas and all...
whole furnace
i really dont have them lol and what i have im using them lol
hasty harness
its my preferences lol
Just to clear a bigiiner level interview I am asking..
hasty harness
Oh my line of sight regarding it just to get a job. So i thought to make project and clear all the concept regarding it even thought its from youtube.
vapid jay
@true turtle
true turtle
<@!562601836591185930>
hi
wary jacinth
woven sierra
can someone please help me its my moms birthday tommorow and i havent got her anything cus we arent in the best of state money wise becuase she is a single mom please help me
mossy willow
strange pine
can someone please help me its my moms birthday tommorow and i havent got her an...
get her a necklace or a bracelet
near ocean
Interning at putting boxes away?
jolly quest
😂
true harness
i don't think they have internships at those fulfillment centers
pure blaze
^ i dont really get this
This is one of the nicer channels that is actually informative
timid mirage
@tardy orchid I have links for you if you can DM me
last charm
Um a web app for software people
Hmm, show me an example??
hearty island
i didn't ask
hearty island
Hmm, show me an example??
i'm trying to make a web app for beginner drawers to share their drawings as a portfolio project
all good
last charm
I heard comp science was hard tho
You seriously have to take initiative yourself in college. Go into each class like there is a good chance your professor is the supplementary material to your actual learning. Won't be the case for all of your professors, but at the end of the day just think that it is your skills that need to grow, it is your projects that will make or break you in a job interview, it is you who has to learn the material. You get the idea.
hearty island
professors in college are not like teachers in high school
most do not have teaching degrees
makes a huge difference
last charm
hmm interesting, ok I'll have to come up with some kind of web app. Do you write the whole thing in python??
hearty island
hmm interesting, ok I'll have to come up with some kind of web app. Do you write...
python, sqllite3, flask,HTML too
i haven't even finished yet
last charm
and you don't need like javascript, html, css?
hearty island
javascript too probably
last charm
for the webpage, or that'll just come later?
kk
I haven't looked into sqllite or flask yet.
I've heard of flask though. Is that a 'framework'?
hearty island
yes
vapid jay
swift veldt
.onion
I'm not clicking that.
sudden shadow
could somebody please help me, im picking classes for next year but idk. all i know is i want to be is a software engineer in the future but dont know which to pick
pastel quail
is AP computer science B a thing?
sudden shadow
no idea
pastel quail
i know ap compsci ab was a thing in the past but I think it doesn't exist anymore
wack
sudden shadow
idk if i should do AP
sudden shadow
im not sure what im gonna learn and if its gonna be too hard for me
hearty island
i thought they discontinued it
they discontinued it in my school bc very few kids registered
sudden shadow
should I pick that?
pastel quail
at my school, ap compsci a isn't very difficult. do you have any experience with programming @sudden shadow?
sudden shadow
at my school, ap compsci a isn't very difficult. do you have any experience with...
nope, but I really want to get into it
and want to be a software engineer
pastel quail
do you know what languages they use in the IB courses and computer information systems courses?
sudden shadow
im not sure
pastel quail
ok
hearty island
ok so let's say i make this web app
pastel quail
you should probably get more info about those courses and figure out what AP compsci B is
sudden shadow
i cant get more info, I can only ask my teacher during zoom class and she said she doesnt know about it
and we have to pick classes today
pastel quail
ap cs b doesn't exist
sudden shadow
im so confused
pastel quail
@sudden shadow i think java is pretty good for software engineering (don't quote me on that) , compsci A should probably be a good class for you
maybe ask some people at your school how difficult the course is
sudden shadow
i wish I could but unfortunately we have online class and I dont know anyone taking those classes
delicate bane
maybe email a counselor
languid carbon
guys what should i study in college to be an artificial intelligence engineer
near ocean
Computer science and then specialise into AI i guess