career-advice

[silver dune]

lol i got baited

[ocean tundra]

Yeah in python I think you can just change a variable for example ```ex = 10
#and then just change it like this

ex = 11
#and now ex = 11```

[ornate nimbus]

oh, fr as in for real?

then yes

dropped out

[ocean tundra]

But in Java you cant do this right?

[silver dune]

did you think fr was france?

[ornate nimbus]

Had one year left, realized I didn't care about the degree and that I had learned all I needed

[silver dune]

yeah that's how it works, i think its called top down programming? I'm not quite sure

[ornate nimbus]

so I quit and started my current job

[silver dune]

interesting

[ocean tundra]

Cause I remember I did some java and you cant change a variable like that because it just doesn't let you, but python on the other hand lets you change it like that

[silver dune]

interesting, i have no experience in java so i can't say

[ocean tundra]

But how exactly can I learn procedural coding? Our lecturer just gives us task (after an explanation of what we need to do) and then we do a class correction

I probably won't be able to tell the difference between a procedural code and one that isn't

[ornate nimbus]

Typically these languages build a lot of abstractions that makes this much easier to do

I think part of the confusion comes from not thinking in types

I will now assault you with some scala syntax

for instance

def square(n: Int): Int = n*n

square has the signature Int => Int

Int goes in, int goes out, and that is the only thing that happens

[ocean tundra]

But isn't n undefined here?

[silver dune]

it's an example

[ocean tundra]

right

[silver dune]

n can be any integer

[ornate nimbus]

in C I could write something like

void double(int *i){ *i = *i + *i; }

Now the signature of double is Int => Unit

where Unit can be understood as None in python

[ocean tundra]

Can you translate it to python so maybe I could understand it better?

[ornate nimbus]

Now if you're unfamiliar with C, what this function does is that it takes an address to a value

in python it would be something like this

def double(i):
  i[0] = i[0] + i[0]

[silver dune]

@ornate nimbus i sent you a friend request. i'd love to interact with you more

[ornate nimbus]

Sure, I'm not always available for questions mind you

in the python example i is a list with only one element

however, like the C function, it doesn't return anything

[silver dune]

not just questions but interacting

it seems like i can learn a lot from you

[ornate nimbus]

so you cannot for instance call double(double(myvar))

because the inner call returns None

[cunning vapor]

ik this is a python server but does anyone know about C# aswell to do a compare?

[ornate nimbus]

now the C and python examples were procedures

Anything but C++ and python is my MO

so yeah!

[silver dune]

try a server called the coding den

[cunning vapor]

can u link to me

[silver dune]

it has something for all the languages

its public on the sidebar on discord

[ornate nimbus]

(I'm only here because I need to write matplotlib code)

[ocean tundra]

so procedural coding has like, steps if you will?

[ornate nimbus]

Yes

[silver dune]

as indicated by the word procedure

[ocean tundra]

Well yeah that's what I assumed but the examples made it more clear for me

[ornate nimbus]

The fact that we put so much emphasis on something that seems so inconsequential should tell you that it is deeper than just that

It shapes the way we think about a program

Haha I'm going all kenobi on you guys

or gals

[ocean tundra]

Well it does seem better to code like that

You wouldn't have a mess

[ornate nimbus]

Most of this is done in search of composability

[silver dune]

well yeah but OOP is very advantageous

you can accomplish a lot with object oriented programming

[ornate nimbus]

Do you know what orthogonality means for software?

[ocean tundra]

no

[ornate nimbus]

In geometry orthogonal means 90 degree angle

but in a deeper sense it means that it's a different dimension

since the Z axis is normal on both the X and Y

Anyways, we want to write orthogonal code

i.e code that only concerns itself with one "dimension"

Instead of having a method to do a DB call and then validate the data

We want to compose a DB call and a validation method

since interacting with a DB and validation of data are orthogonal concerns

And for these properties we are willing to go through almost anything

[ocean tundra]

You would have a piece of code that focuses on one task you mean? And then after a couple of spaces (to make the script look better) you would have another piece of code that focuses on a different task.

[ornate nimbus]

Abstract classes, dependency injection, code generation and other arcane arts

Yes, that's essentially what it boils down to

It's not terribly important to understand what or why

[ocean tundra]

Well then without realizing it, I think I do it in my codes

[ornate nimbus]

I'm throwing jargon at you to confuse, not to enlighten 😛

but in the end it's what OOP, FP, procedural and other paradigms boil down to

How can we write code that composes well

Instead of getting a tangled mess

[silver dune]

could you remind me what functional programming is?

[silver dune]

that makes sense

[ornate nimbus]

Programs where most of the logic is expressed as transformations of data

[silver dune]

okay

[ornate nimbus]

If there is one takeaway I want you to make, it's to start thinking more about why we do certain things the way we do

Rather than just focusing on how to get certain tasks down

Take it from someone who had to make up for a lot of lost time

[silver dune]

okay

that's very logical indeed

the purpose behind the action more so than the steps of the action

[ornate nimbus]

With functional programming there is a higher emphasis on abstract interfaces

that's quite a mouthful, but it's also very useful

In scala for instance we have something called Functor which is any Type Constructor that supports map

List is a type constructor

It takes in a type and returns a composite type. For instance Int -> List -> List[Int]

or more generic, A => List => List[A]

and map means (A => B) => List[A] => List[B]

Which can be read as, if supplied a function that turns As into Bs (like bananas to oranges) the Functor instance of List means we get a function that transforms a list of bananas to a list of oranges

but just remember, Functor is not the same as container

I bet that confused the shit out of you 😂

Don't try to understand all of it, it's more a glimpse into the sort of things you can think about when analyzing how programming works

However this is not something you can really express in python due to its dynamic type system

On one hand it means freedom, but on the other hand it's harder to read python code since you have no way to know what the types of values are just by looking at them

making you more likely to do things like multiply a phone number by a shoe size

[silver dune]

that's a very interesting analogy, thanks for putting it into those terms

is there a language you would suggest that would not follow this?

[ornate nimbus]

It's very hard for me to be objective about this

Since I have my clear favorites

And I didn't care much about these things before coding for some years

So it's impossible for me to know what is easy and what is hard

Since once internalized it's all the same

Yeah well in the end it's all just string

Correctness was never the focus of python

[silver dune]

sorry, i think i mostly got carried away in reading everything

[ornate nimbus]

well all of this was carreer advice for some definition of carreer advice

[graceful granite]

Yes

[vivid sparrow]

Are there jobs for those without excellent communication skills?

[ocean tundra]

Actually that reminds me

I came to this channel to see if I can find a "job" sort of

but I don't get paid

volunteer work basically

since I have very minimal knowledge of python and only know the basics

Can I actually find something online?

or maybe create a game (using construct) or some sort of app and put it somewhere?

[vivid sparrow]

Thanks wumpus! I was worried, as all the jobs listed it.

I can communicated online, but not in real life.

[wooden tinsel]

Sup guys, how are y'all doing? I've a question that may generate a really nice discussion that I have been thinking by the last days. Can anyone becomes a good programmer just with free courses? I mean freecodecamp, khanacademy, edx etc. Thanks

[near ocean]

Yes

[wintry tendon]

I believe yes but you would have to look at multiple courses to learn new stuff also from yt videos which are free

[wooden tinsel]

Thx

[wintry tendon]

Np

[vapid jay]

Hey, I have been been hired to create a sorta big project for someone. They have asked for a price but I dont really know how to price things well whilst also making a nice profit from it

I'd like to earn some actual money from it and not like £25

[wintry tendon]

Ok and?

[vapid jay]

wdym

Id like some help giving a number

[wintry tendon]

Depends what the project is

[vapid jay]

its a mix between discord bot and web development

but more on the side of discord

i'll be using oauth2 (creating my own)

and on a few commands it will get all the users who have authorised to join discord servers and join them to set guilds

but there is a bit of work into it

please ping im going to be elsewhere for the next 20 mins

whats a good rate to charge at?

hourly

[delicate bane]

make sure you look at a couple of good data structures & algorithms courses. those are classes that give college students that extra oomph in their programming skills

[ocean ledge]

that's overrated

you want extra oomph? take a systems programming course

[summer roost]

Systems programming courses are probably more useful IRL, but DS&A courses are more useful for getting jobs

Interviews are much more likely to ask algorithms or data structures questions than systems programming questions. Even for a systems programming job, you'll get both types of questions for a junior position.

[delicate bane]

take both..?

[summer roost]

I concur. DS&A is more useful for getting a job, Systems Programming is more useful for getting a raise. Both are definitely useful.

[delicate bane]

[coarse citrus]

Hey Guys! I had recently completed the Udemy Course: Python for Finance: Investment Fundamentals and Data Analytics. Review: The course gives you a brief introduction towards Python basics and tools to import and utilise data, so that you can conduct data analysis using financial modelling. Namely CAPM, Investment Risks (St.dev and Sharpe Ratio), Regression Analysis, Portfolio theory, and Monte Carlo simulations. It gives a brief description and fundamental functions of these Investment models, however, doesnt go into too much detail, if you want to learn more about these, its best you do your own research. Highly recommended for someone starting any Analyst position in banking, and for someone who is completely new to python.

[vernal marlin]

I'm a final year university student - and in aroudn a week I have an interview which is in part a "decomposition" interview which the recruiter said is somewhat like a system design/architecture interview - I have no real idea as to how to prepare, does anyone have any suggestion?

[vapid jay]

Hey, what is most popular jobs to least in python?

[small marsh]

Cann anyone help me freelancing?
I am a web developer (django + react). I am looking for a job to do beside student. And there is no part time job here.

How to start

And where?

[vapid jay]

Software engineer + AI is a boom combo

also other fields such as DATA base

are also good

AI is rhe future

so learning that is gonna help u alot

[rigid wharf]

Hello guys lm exploring career option and I'm currently interested in software engineering and machine learning but dont know which one to pursue fully. Any suggestions?

[vapid jay]

plus AI will have lots of future jobs

Hi there

[vapid jay]

I suggest you start of by learning software engineering

and take some side by side courses for AI , machine learning

in ur free time

MIT offers a free AI 2weeks course

so in ur break u can enroll into it

[rigid wharf]

what makes u say to take AI courses on the side?

[vapid jay]

try to keep ur portfolio as much as open ..

[vapid jay]

Right now as you know AI is getting to come off in demand from cars such as Tesla etc .. and to get better job offers in the future AI will be a really good option plus if u know it with ur software engineering its gonna gurantee you some really cool jobs over a normal person also getting somewhere from atleast a 60k a year

with more and more expirenece u can go up to a 100k + as well

[rigid wharf]

can l pursue both side to side?

[little trellis]

They can be the same @rigid wharf

[vapid jay]

Yes

u can

[little trellis]

Something like a Data Engineer or ML engineer are doing software engineering specialized on data or ML

[rigid wharf]

thank yall so much for the information. I know @vapid jay mentioned an MIT course on AI but where should I start

[vapid jay]

Start off by ur software engineering

in ur free time watch videos etc about AI

[little trellis]

☝️

Start learning one language really well and learn SQL

You'll need SQL to be a good practitioner in the ML/Data space

Those are the foundations

[vapid jay]

Because as icmitch said above .. learning an lang is main priority

[rigid wharf]

yall have certain courses in mind. Im currently a freshman in college so Im not taking many CS classes and lm looking to speed up the process by learning in my free timne

[vapid jay]

In ur course of college they will teach u the required langs ..

but what they teach is alos really good , i suggest wacthing some more tutorials on the lang side by side

that well get u to learn the language better / fast

[rigid wharf]

lm already experienced in python

[vapid jay]

thats good then ,

Bruh wrong channwl

[little trellis]

For ML there are 2 O'Reilly books I like a lot that are very comprehensive. 1. Hands-On Machine Learning with Scikit-Learn, Keras, and TensorFlow will teach you about models and how to implement them from basic models like linear regression all the way up to ml vision and NLP. 2. Machine Learning Design Patterns will teach you more how to approach problems and the best ways of doing things in a practical way from experience.

[vapid jay]

Yes that authors books are rellly good

[little trellis]

Both are a bit more advanced so I would suggest doing as @vapid jay said and watching some videos and simpler things first

[rigid wharf]

Thanks for the help @vapid jay @little trellis this conversation was very much helpful. I will see what I can do and hopefully it works out

[little trellis]

Not a problem @rigid wharf

[vapid jay]

Sure ur welcome , good luck with ur studies @rigid wharf

[little trellis]

Do you work in the space @vapid jay ?

[silent elk]

@rigid wharf you may also want to consider graduate school for AI work. The most interesting jobs almost always look for graduate degrees

[rigid wharf]

will keep that in mind @silent elk

[dusky frost]

Guys I'm a python developer and looking for a job with 750$/month. If you can hire me please send a DM to me.

[true harness]

750 a month? you should really reevaluate how much you're worth

[little trellis]

Could be a good wage depending on country I assume

[near ocean]

750 dollars, assuming its in the US, is not even rent money

[golden tundra]

I see absolutely no reason to assume this is the US currently

[vapid jay]

what is the starting salary of a computer engineer?

in USD

[golden tundra]

Varies wildly

Depending on exact industry and location

And in fact, Sir.alireza’s profile pic says “sirali,” which is a town in India. I wouldn’t necessarily assume they’re Indian, but this really enforces that there isn’t much reason to assume they’re American

This really ”everyone is in the West” attitude bothers me sometimes

[little trellis]

Agreed @golden tundra

[dusky frost]

Guys I'm a programmer and looking for a job with 750$/month. If you can hire me send me a DM.

[vapid jay]

Hi

[little trellis]

What's up?

[fallen dew]

I’m pretty sure he was just using the US as an example lol. I wouldn’t put much weight on it. But USD is a pretty commonly used currency, regardless

[dusk seal]

👋 is there a maintained list of Python mentors/teachers who do 1-on-1 sessions (paid/voluntary) for interview prep? I know there are many (many) self-learning/-paced resources, but I think a regular session with dialogue would be quite useful

[modern plaza]

Hello, I'm looking for a job as developer engineer.. I have 10 years of experience in the security industry (McAfee) working on research and automation development with python and AutoIT... I do need to refresh some of my python knowledge because it was very specific to the projects I did, what resources do you recommend to round up my python skillset?

[boreal moss]

Hey MF~I think the official website of Python is a good choice.

[unique path]

you can also try GeeksforGeeks

[karmic marlin]

i want to be software engineer

because

it is fun

[nocturne snow]

what channel could be used for algotrading discussions?

Oops wrong channel to ask lol

[wintry hedge]

i wanna become a computer programmer

[worldly folio]

ok

[last folio]

is there is a way to make sure my input is only a number

[fossil umbra]

input = int(input("Input: "))

[red goblet]

How can I as a Comp Sci Student prepare for a programming career in Python

[icy anvil]

well start programming 😄

pick a problem you need to solve and start thinking about each step

don't rush to do programming

for trying out things fast I suggest you to install ipython or use python repl

[red goblet]

Currently i'm working on a Car lot project on the side. I'm treating it like a database with tons of choices like showing stock and other features

[mellow crest]

what happens around here

[drifting goblet]

Hello 👋

[vocal sage]

hey

i have finished learning the basics of python

and can do quite a lot in python

after googling some stuff up

i just thought it would be good to ask some things here

specificially

1. What concepts should i learn

in order to shorten my code

and even write programs that are just one line in length

2. what are some of the advanced topics that I should cover

3)Which books or resources can i refer to learn these advanced concepts

4)What are the algorithms that i shoudl learn

[unique python]

join my hash code team https://hashcodejudge.withgoogle.com/#join-team/4952452990238720/xTGTW6Pbo2uYSfMRu8Jb763bseKTBTln8UaSMEWoR94

[little trellis]

Don't worry so much about code length. Worry more about readability. Make sure your functions, methods, and variables all have names that make sense. Somewhat counter intuitively, replacing multiple lines of code with an overly smart one liner can actually be detrimental to readability. I also don't know of many useful programs that are only one line. Topics to cover depend on what you're interested. Web development, Data Science, Backend, QA, ect.. Grokking Algorithms is a good book to get a first into to algorithms. There is also Classic Computer Science Problems in Python for Python data structures and algorithms learning.

[noble cove]

hello

anybody here?

[little trellis]

yes @noble cove

[noble cove]

I hava a question about cython

[little trellis]

Probably better fit for one of the Topic Chat/Help channels such as c-extensions

[noble cove]

ok

[visual oracle]

@noble cove https://dontasktoask.com/

[noble cove]

what's this?

[vapid jay]

oke

[vocal sage]

Thank you so much @little trellis

[little trellis]

No problem @vocal sage

[vapid jay]

The go mascot needs a dentist man @little trellis

[little trellis]

@vapid jay He's going to get some invisalign once covid is over and he can go to one I heard.

[vapid jay]

Looking for a Python dev, easy job can pay.

[near ocean]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[wise monolith]

So do it that way
Data structure
Then algorithm (Harvard courses )
You will find both on Coursera

[delicate bane]

Classic Computer Science Problems in Python for Python data structures and algorithms learning.
Thanks for the recommendation.

[wet pollen]

Hello, I'm juned from India and just started learning python programming and I'm not sure what to do and how to star it & so much confused about what is best for me to learn. Please suggest me something that i can learn and earn money from home like "work from home" in less than 6 months.

[peak halo]

I don't know how quickly one can gain marketable programming skills. However we do have a resources page

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[summer roost]

You'll be competing against people who went to school for 4 years learning software development, and other related skills. Getting good enough to compete with them in only 6 months will be very tough.

[vapid jay]

i am good at coding but i want to work for money but no one hires me i have contibuted to open source but no moneyyyyy
i am unable to host my bot
help me outt

[autumn snow]

Hey anybody from MIT, HARVARD or STANFORD???

[jovial rover]

as icmitch said, worry less about code length and more about code readability. however, if there's an optimization to be made, make it. if after the optimization the code is a bit unreadable explain what's happening with comments. no useful AND readable program was written in one line. if you have plans of using python at least semi-professionally, i have found that you spend a lot more time thinking about the theory of how to do something. algorithms and execution can always be googled, but situation-specific solutions cannot

[vocal sage]

@jovial rover Thanks for the advice... will keep that in mind

[vestal crow]

how to get started? :0

i am pretty young and the only thing i know is html

whats next?

[radiant quiver]

Heyy guys i am done with the basics of python, so now i want to improve my skills or want to do an internship, so can anyone guide me plzz.

[vestal crow]

@radiant quiver scroll up

[ruby narwhal]

Guys anybody wants to learn python can dm me......

[jovial rover]

Do you ONLY know html? html isn't exactly a good programming language; it can only be used to create static websites. If you wanted to make those websites functional, you would need to learn javascript. And if you wanted to make them pretty, you would need to know css. If you don't know anything about programming besides html, I would suggest to go learn javascript first and learn the basics of programming and coding (theory and execution). Once you've got the basics down, you can effectively look to resources such as w3schools if you want to find a specific function to do something, such as create an element or change its text. css is just used for styling, so again,you can look to w3schools.
one thing I should point out is there are many, many good website creation tools, free and otherwise, available to everyone. these require no programming knowledge. I don't know how the market's doing, but I'm fairly certain that making websites for clients isn't exactly a booming industry.
The only time you would need to know html and css is if you were creating web apps. web apps are basically the only way to create anything functional outside of each individual page. however, most of the functionality of these web apps is behind-the-scenes, written in some other language. I'm very certain that you can find tools to do this with Javascript, but the only one I'm familiar with is Django, use with python

[vestal crow]

Thank you very much 🙂

[heavy charm]

a software engineer is someone who tests maintains or designs a piece of software but a software developer builds the program or software

[dark lintel]

Hi guys. I've got a question. How easy is it to be employable with no experience?

[heavy charm]

you can't be employed without any experience

you need to know a decent amount of Python to be employed

[dark lintel]

I mean, I'm finishing my CS degree

I've got some projects too

I mean, no JOB experience

[heavy charm]

he designs it but the software developer actually makes it

[heavy charm]

oh bruh

ok

you will be just fine then

thats how everyone starts lol

[dark lintel]

I'm from latin america

[heavy charm]

no job experience

[dark lintel]

Any tips?

[heavy charm]

i mean I am probably less experienced than you I am just 17 but I can understand that everyone starts with little to no job experience but just work on projects and add them to your resume

np

[shell orchid]

software engineer java

or software engineer NET

why is there no software engineer python lover

[shadow moss]

because few companies use python as mainstream language for software development

it's more data engineer/data science language or it's used by Software Engineers to glue stuff together, we have used it at work for migration from one database schema to another, but when it comes time to for real production code, we use .Net Core because speed and typing

[summer roost]

I wouldn't say that. There's plenty of companies that use Python as their main language for backend services.

And if a service needs to be faster or service more clients than Python can easily handle it's common for it to graduate to a faster, less dynamic language.

[shadow moss]

Compared to number using Node/Java/C#

[summer roost]

More than Node, in my experience. Less than Java or C#, but climbing while Java and C# are falling.

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ for some data on this. Though admittedly it's hard to measure.

[shadow moss]

yea, it uses Search data which is problematic

but it's hard to say

[summer roost]

I can tell you that the shop I work at is reasonably large (several thousand engineers) and our main backend languages are C++ and Python, if anecdata is helpful 🙂

[shadow moss]

that seems really weird, either go really "low level" or "massively high level"

I work at a company that is really large, we are Java -> C# -> Node -----------> Python

we use Python for gluing stuff together but C#/Java does heavy lifting

so it would be rare for us to hire Python primary developer, we hire Node/Java/C# and teach them python if we need to, it's not hard language for someone experienced in one of those 3 to pick up

as always, YMMV

[summer roost]

Doesn't seem weird to me. Use a high level language where you're writing CRUD or gluing things together or prototyping or writing things that won't take much load, or generally where the developer time cost advantage outweighs the performance disadvantage. Once you decide something is worth optimizing for performance, do so in a language that's easy to get optimal performance in.

We write most new stuff in a high level language like Python, and drop to a low level language when there's a necessity.

[shadow moss]

but switch to C++ -> C#/Java isn't as big and performance of those two is approaching C++

[summer roost]

Depends on the type of application, and whether it can cope with the JIT warm-up time. And anyway, modern C++ isn't much lower level than those. The one extra complication it has is manual memory management and pointers, but in a modern codebase memory tends to be managed through smart pointers that simplify that for you

[shadow moss]

as always, YMMV, in my area (East Coast US), few companies mainline Python and hire Python only programmers, knowing Java/C#/Node/C++ is much more beneficial, if you know python, bonus but python only is massive uphill battle to get hired

[summer roost]

I agree in principle. If you're interested in frontend dev you should also learn HTML and CSS and JavaScript before job hunting, and if you're interested in backend work you should also learn C or C++ or C# or Java. We'll hire people who only know Python, but we'd certainly prefer people who know other backend languages as well

[craggy elm]

visual studio comes with way more streamlined tools than open source stuff & business people have someone to bitch to if an issue occurs

even if the former isnt necesaarily true, the latter is probably going to be the deciding factor

[summer roost]

If the business people are picking the technology stack instead of the engineers, you probably won't enjoy working for that company

[shadow moss]

Companies don't pick C# because Visual Studio, they pick it because despite the issues with it, it's pretty decent language, with .Net Core, it's really really appealing language if people would get over whole "Microsoft" hangup they have

[crude crown]

I echo Rabbit's statement on the perils of being a Python only dev.

OTOH, for some positions it's a rarity

two SW devs without considerable Python experience were hired for my team (it's a "data science" team) because they weren't found (the reasons for that I'm not that aware, but could be a low'ish pay perhaps).

but yeah, for any budding SW dev... You should learn either Java or C# as a complement to Python.

[tulip agate]

@spring scaffold też tu jesteś, o lol

[rough shard]

Hey, I recently got tasked with making a webscraper for a price guide website, could someone help me out with what I should expect for the kind of work I'm doing? I never have done coding work before so idk if what I'm doing should definitely be something I get paid to do or if it's something that isnt really a big deal. Any advice would be great (:

[onyx steeple]

Is it possible for someone with a computer science or programming skillset to get a job in the space industry? and if yes, what kind of jobs do they usually offer?

[lilac berry]

I am looking for an opportunity to work on an IoT Project or a job opportunity related to the IoT field that I can work on remotely. (full time or Part-time doesn't matter to me). I want to challenge myself and improve my knowledge. Maybe a fresh startup, huge Enterprise, bunch of people, or individual doesn't matter if above mention my goals are fullfill.If you have such opportunity or know some please inbox me. Regarding the salary I am flexible and negotiable. Just want to gain new experience and improve myself. Cheers !!! this is my linkend profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/charith-wijesundara-882b2598/

[solid garden]

hi

[boreal moss]

for 特斯拉?

[onyx steeple]

yesss have been thinking about that as well

space, defense tech, aviation

are any of these possible to get into with a knowledge of programming?

[boreal moss]

yes

i am a C++ programmer working for biotech park.

[supple copper]

Guys, is this good/bad when a Hiring Manager, during an interview, tells something like: "Is it me who is being interviewed, or you?"
I have asked a lot of relevant questions, I though it would be good....

[near ocean]

Maybe they were joking

Did it feel like a joke?

If not i would say its a red flag

[supple copper]

Well I kinda felt it was like a joke, but this would also mean I should perhaps calm down too on the Questions I ask.
Leading interviews with recruiters are easy, but Hiring Managers are a thing ....

[summer roost]

Is it me who is being interviewed, or you?

It's both. They're trying to figure out if you'd be a good employee, and you're trying to figure out if they'd be a good employer. Interviews do go, and should go, in both directions.

If it felt like a joke, I wouldn't worry about it. And if it didn't feel like a joke, I'd take that as a red flag about the company.

As long as the amount of time you spend asking them questions is maybe around 20% of the total interview length, I think you're fine. Having questions prepared is a good thing. When I've been an interviewer, we set aside 10 minutes out of every 60 for questions from the interviewee, and we would let that run long if we had to (though it usually doesn't)

[shadow moss]

Yes but you must be citizen of the country

So SpaceX will only hire US citizens

[onyx steeple]

Isn’t that only the case with SpaceX

[supple copper]

Thanks for the reply :P

[summer roost]

One thing to note is that interviewers are often uncomfortable during interviews, just like interviewees are. It's not the main part of their job, it's probably not their favorite part of their job, and for most people it's uncomfortable to be in situations that make other people uncomfortable. Just because someone is the hiring manager for a position doesn't mean they're any more comfortable during the interview than you are.

[shadow moss]

All US space companies have this restriction including ULA and others.

I was just mentioning SpaceX because of their popularity

And since this server is international, I wanted to mention it.

If you are a US citizen and want to apply to defense/space, go for it. It’s mind numbing work most of the time.

If you are not in US, look at local companies, citizen of country is generally universal

[onyx steeple]

Man I’m in a very tough position ifthat is the case

in India the recruitment policies are very conservative and outdated

the only take people with degrees in science or engineering and that too mostly from the top engineering universities most of the time. I’m not eligible to even give the exam cos it’s all through the govt

I thought I could try in Europe or the States but you just broke my heart

[jolly furnace]

thats for security reasons

[placid rune]

ISRO has entrance exam, the basic qualifications do not list the eliteness or rank of the college but surely a science or engineering degree is required.

[jolly furnace]

and im quite sure u need a security clearance too to work there

[onyx steeple]

yeah I never said that they only recruit from there but the majority workforce is from there though

[golden tundra]

Unfortunately, US recruiting for internationals is down in general

Increasingly few companies are willing to sponsor people without work authorization, and part of that is because pandemic, but according to Careers at my company, the restrictions and hoops to jump through for sponsorship just also got a lot worse over the past few years

I’m guessing cause of the current administration

So that may change with the new admin, but who knows

[marsh wind]

but with a change, do you ecxpect improvement?

[golden tundra]

Well

[marsh wind]

without going down the politics in career channel

[golden tundra]

I don’t know how much you want to get into US politics (this doesn’t seem to be the place for it)

But generally, yes

Trump (current president) has always advertised himself as very anti immigration

[marsh wind]

I've personally no plans for US, although I do check stuff about news/politics, after all one of biggest world economics.

and having few friends there, I know a bit of how dire it could get. but Idk if Biden+house will be enough to overturn that, or they can run into issues on Senate level

[golden tundra]

Biden (incoming president) has said he intends to reverse Trumpian immigration policies soon after getting into office
So assuming that he follows through, then I would assume you’d at least revert to pre-Trump level immigration
Oh, you don’t need Senate for a decent chunk of this
A lot of the immigration stuff Trump did was executive order

[onyx steeple]

Biden was sorta supportive on the visa issues so idk

atleast for aspiring Indians, his arrival was supposed to be a sigh of relief

[golden tundra]

However, due to the pandemic, I expect a lot of changes to immigration won’t be experienced for a while even once they’re made

If you’re already in the US (international student, worker without papers, etc), then you might get some immediate benefit, but otherwise, not so much

[onyx steeple]

But i’ve never considered usa a realistic place to work at and I’m gusessing more people are now turning towards Europe given how easy it is to get enrolled there for higher education and subsequent work opportunities

[golden tundra]

Frankly, I kinda wonder why so many people target the US

[onyx steeple]

The American dream lol

[golden tundra]

That’s been outdated for years honestly

[onyx steeple]

Agreed

[golden tundra]

Frankly, I feel like people should be aiming for Canada

[onyx steeple]

Barring the weather, Canada is the best immigration choice imo

[golden tundra]

It’s always kinda funny though to know that a lot of people want what you have and have a kind of eh opinion of

(Which is to say, US residency and working permissions)

[jolly furnace]

there are canadian space companies

but they r small startups

[golden tundra]

Don’t get me wrong, I like being American in a lot of respects, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be

[jolly furnace]

if that is sth ur intrested in

[onyx steeple]

I am

could you name one or two?

[jolly furnace]

u can search up spaceryde

[onyx steeple]

alright thanks

[jolly furnace]

wait i might have spelt that wrong

when i say start up i mean start up

no real fancy launchers that u see in spacex or ula

[marsh wind]

yeah, I know some poeple who went there and are quite happy

[onyx steeple]

Space individuals is another great website for space industry related opportunities.

[marsh wind]

and many people considering it

[jolly furnace]

like the launchers are like meant for small payloads

[calm gale]

i want to find short-term python and c jobs i am good at it

where can i find

[marsh wind]

also, raw salary numbers

without looking what's behind them you know... when you look at the fact that in France for example you will be happy to have 35k-40k EUR and consider it as really good if you are just starting out your career

while in US if we take some hubs, we are talking something like 80k+ no?

[jolly furnace]

idk how willing startups are with sponsering

[onyx steeple]

linkedin, monster, indeed, you checked all these out yet?

[calm gale]

i dont know how to check

i am really good but i dont know where can i find job

i want short term jobs like one week one month

[onyx steeple]

you should sign up on fiverr then

[marsh wind]

fiverr/upwork for short time things

[calm gale]

ok i will check

[shadow moss]

Yes. Big business wants it

[marsh wind]

lmao I though @Rebel is @Rabbit who changed profile pic and nick

[rough shard]

Hey I kinda got a coding job to make a webscraper and I wanna know if I should be getting paid considering the amount of data itll get. I'm working for what I'm pretty sure is a successful website but the way I was approached was more like "hey make this project for fun" rather than "we get something, so you'll get something if you do this" and its sketching me out a bit. It's been fun to work on, but I kinda feel like they wanna take advantage of my coding? Idk was thinking maybe someone maybe has done something like this before, looking for any advice! I've never done coding work and dunno if this is usually a nothing kinda job lol

[timber tide]

So you're doing work for free, for fun? And wondering if you should get paid?

[jolly furnace]

so they convinced u to work for free by telling u it is fun

that is def sus

[rough shard]

Well, it's weird. The site is a price guide for collectibles and I made a bot that assigns ebay listings on the website and made a FB post in the FB group they have for 'curators' (people who have extra permissions on the site, like assigning) about the bot and one of the co-founders told me to PM him. Then we called on discord and he gave me a whole shpeel on what the site plans to do blah blah blah, the problems they had with their bot, and then he got into what I'm doing now and said "maybe you could devote your endless energy to this" and I just said sure, but I've thought it over now and even asked him about it and for compensation he offered the opportunity to buy stock (already have it being a curator) and maybe give my father a bit of a deal to sell on the website. Idk just seemed kinda weird because I feel its something they could have easily paid someone to do

But hey guy came into the group and can code, easy money saver

[timber tide]

Do you have anything down in a contract?

It just certainly sounds suspicious.

I don't have experience doing that, but I'd certainly stop working on it until you find a good answer from someone who does or just go with your gut.

[rough shard]

No contract. That's what I've been doing, came here hoping it's a good place to get some advice on the situation. I've done some pretty minimal website work before and got paid I think $60 cash for 2 hours of work, so it definitely seems weird the co-founder expects this out of the goodness of my heart... I just dont like being taken advantage of, which I think is fair. I would do this free if paid work was down the line or something but something just seems off

Like this bot will in the end get thousands and thousands of price points for the price guide and I feel that's pretty valuable data to them and like any company theyd like to do anything to get it free

When I asked the co-founder for some kind of compensation they gave me a lil speech about how the site "isn't possible without its curators" and I have a hard time believing anyone has done something like this (coding a scraper, that has been a pain in the ass to go undetected) for them for free. The way they got all there previous data (which they told me) was by buying out websites so how is getting data through me for a website different? Right?

Just the way I'm seeing it right now is everyone benefits but me. The Price Guide gets their data, the site I'm scraping from gets a link to their site from the Price Guide, and I get nothing. Seems kinda whack

[nova sentinel]

Hi everyone I'm kinda new here to the coding community and wanted to talk with someone who already has a career using python, or someone who is already coding. I'm trying to get advice on what a good baseline knowledge to have in order to have a successful career as a coder. As well as where to start. Im studying independently for the next 2 years. I don't have the money for college but I was wondering if it's possible to have a very successful career in coding without a college degree. If so what are good places to start. Feel free to dm me or voice chat me. I really am interested to hear what the day to day is like in having a career in coding.

[marsh wind]

what about this sounds like they are scamming you big time

espsecially if they had to pay for the data before

and now will have an automation to avoid it

not willing to pay you in hard cash rather than offering stock and nd maybe give my father a bit of a deal to sell on the website. imo is a big red flag

do you have any leverage? ie can you stop your bot/app etc and renegotiate the situation?

[rough shard]

Yeah I have all the data and code so they need to go through me. I havent sent them anything yet

So I think I have some leverage. I'm just not sure what I should be negotiating for

Like Idk how much I should be getting paid

[marsh wind]

how much hours did you put in it yet?

[rough shard]

Dont have an exact count. It's been a few days, worked on it 5-8 hours? Maybe a little longer. Honestly dont know, time melts when I'm coding

I'd say 10-12 hours. I did spend a lot of time debugging and working around getting detected on the site

That's not including the time it takes to get the data

[jolly furnace]

any time that u spent on it is effort that u put towards it

and even tho they might not have been super productive u should still get paid for it

[marsh wind]

idk what is the country in question, but bare min you should charge should be like 10$/hour give or take depending on your skills @rough shard

[rough shard]

I'm in Canada, so yeah about that. I'll try negotiate some kind of terms with the co-founder and I'll come back if anything else is kinda odd, thanks for the advice guys :)

[jolly furnace]

if ur in canada u should negotiate for more than 10 bucks

min wage in any canadian province is more than 10 bucks

[delicate bane]

good luck. the situation def reads sketchy for me. companies will 9 times out of 10 try to take advantage of independent contractors/individuals. poor business practices

[tepid pine]

does anyone know how to get a job or just some way of getting money if you are young?

[dry sapphire]

anyone happen to have any views on how useful the AWS ML certification actually is?

[shadow moss]

as good as any other certification, some places care, some don't, most will probably be indifferent

[vapid jay]

It's good if you want to work for amazon

[delicate bane]

isnt that the really, really hard one? the specialization. the way they made it sound is that its very technically challenging

i mean, i know its not the most reliable source but this blog made it seem so: https://acloudguru.com/blog/engineering/which-aws-certification-should-i-take

[delicate bane]

look into internships. they even have some that are for high schoolers

[delicate bane]

tbh theyre probably just trying to make the cert sound harder than it actually is so that you buy their test prep products or whatever, tsk tsk ofc

[tepid pine]

alright i'll see

[honest merlin]

i want to become the greatest hacker alive

and hack cocoa's onlyfans account

[vapid jay]

nice

[inner leaf]

Belle Delphine's*

[glacial bough]

Hi I am thinking of getting into competitive programming, I am new to programming and the only language I know is python, however I am thinking of learning C++. How can I start by competing with contests and competitions? I solved a couple of codeforces questions, but when I want to participate in a contest they are always too hard

[zenith herald]

Sounds nice

[shell orchid]

is it true u can get 40k at entry as software engineer?

[heavy fractal]

you can get 150k at entry lol @shell orchid

depends on location and a billion other factors

[shell orchid]

I call cap

[heavy fractal]

...

[shell orchid]

I meant like how much u earn every month btw

[heavy fractal]

you never specified

[shell orchid]

my bad

so is 150k a year good?

@heavy fractal

[keen parrot]

I am a roblox developer (make games on roblox) and earn 3k per month as part time income. I am a Chinese exchange student in America. I only know two languages. Lua and Python and I want to take the next step. Should I learn a new language and start from there or just keep improving on developing games on roblox.

[keen parrot]

Very good.

It depend on where u from. If u in Indonesia u can be millionaire there.

[keen parrot]

Everything take practice. Learning how to walk take practice. How to shower. How to do the computers. U really everything is practice.

I’m recommen d learn C first.

It’s just like school . The competitions is like exam or test. U need study for it. Spend at least.2 hour per day coding.

Memorise make notes all this basic stuff to study moetthods.
U should have learnt in school.

[vapid jay]

yes

[tight hollow]

Anyone familiar with "developer advocate" role?
Thought it was interesting, basically some sales + customer support with a little debugging and light dev work

[delicate bane]

that does sound interesting

like a support programmer

maybe good for starting out

[shadow moss]

It’s basically a sales role that titled that way to make you not sound like sales

Mostly it’s supposed to assist sales team with not selling software abilities that don’t really exist but I see in most companies it’s run over.

And help end customer developers use your software

Issue I’ve seen is some software advocates are commissioned based causing issues with their motives. That my view on being person stuck dealing with developer advocates

[tight hollow]

Yeah that's the vibe I got

I don't know if it beats helpdesk or not. It sounds kind of like glorified helpdesk

[tight hollow]

Could you explain a bit about the issues with motives?

[shadow moss]

Like developer advocates got paid for how much we used their software (cloud based) so they would push for us to use it despite it was wrong fit

[tight hollow]

Gotcha

[shadow moss]

Or lie to our bosses that we were making our life harder because we weren’t using their software

[tight hollow]

Yeah,that makes sense. That incentive is troublesome

The downside is i am very new, no tech background. The upside is they are API platform and the data they provide has to do with my passion (finance), and I'm really impressed w it from a user perspective

Which I'm sure helps from a sales and support pov

[shadow moss]

Not saying don’t take the job

Job is job. Just pointing out the downsides

[delicate bane]

yeah everyone always has to start somewhere

[marsh wind]

This is definitely inappropriate here...

[static notch]

did you fall for it?

[lucid mountain]

should i got to collage for software dev

i enjoy coding

soooooo

[vapid jay]

Guys, questions. I have a background in finance en know python.

And I currently work for a software company.

Which job or role can you get to work with Python?

[swift veldt]

I have a background in Finance and some Python knowledge. If you want to look into Python work at your job, that you are in a software company is already a good start. What you could do, first, is try to get to work on Python-related projects, even if in a PM role. You can offer to help producing code, etc. What you can also do is implementing python scripts in your daily work to have the capacity to show what you can do.

A kind of show vs. tell attitude can only help your case getting that move towards more python-heavy workloads.

[swift veldt]

advertising jobs is not allowed here as per the channel rules.

[vapid jay]

The company i work for uses progress. It a old language. I can only automate a few small processes

[swift veldt]

To the person who posted the job offer, you should hit up the Recruiting thread on hacker news every start of the month.

tis a good place.

[swift veldt]

it's still better than nothing. Also getting to know that language could also give you an edge.

It kinda implies there is quite the chunk of legacy code

maybe one day they'll want to migrate.

[vapid jay]

Well it is a bit of a old fashioned company, maybe after Corona i will look for a modern common

Company.

[vapid jay]

Wat is your Role ?

[swift veldt]

I left my employer in the US to go back to college.

I was project manager in the Financial Risk department at a bank in NYC.

[little trellis]

Do they have any data @vapid jay ?

As in does their data touch anything other than Excel after it is created besides powering applications?

[vapid jay]

We use progress. We dont use Excel a lot.

[vapid jay]

Guys I’m 18. soon done with HS. My grades dropped now I’m working on becoming a Programmer or at least in the Tech field

[little trellis]

@vapid jay was just thinking that helping them with some data analysis would be a good way to get into Python

@vapid jay What are you doing to move towards that goal?

[vapid jay]

@little trellis I bough PCC and studying it thoroughly and I’m also going to go through the Odin project for Java Full stack

[little trellis]

@vapid jay Nice! How much time do you plan to dedicate towards this?

[vapid jay]

@little trellis till I get successful. Not accepting being average anymore

[little trellis]

@vapid jay day to day though?

2 hours a day? 3?

[vapid jay]

That’s the goal. Any progress about the field counts too

[little trellis]

Good for you! Just be aware it's a long road haha. It's going to take years of continued dedication along the self education route

Find projects you are passionate about to keep you going

[obtuse holly]

Hello my career going fellows

You guys are awesome

[dense pagoda]

having a discord server

[delicate bane]

[upbeat briar]

Hi guys i need help haha

for my project progrsmming

[vapid jay]

Hello

[vestal tusk]

what ya need help w

[inland ether]

and im Kanye West

[vital basalt]

no politics

[inland ether]

sumimasen how am i being political

[vital basalt]

kanye west

😠

[inland ether]

im not american

[vital basalt]

I'm not martian

[inland ether]

i dont know how kanye is involved in politics

[swift veldt]

interesting seeing you here, @vital basalt

👋

[vital basalt]

YOU

[swift veldt]

YES, ME

[vital basalt]

[swift veldt]

[vital basalt]

vilain petit canard

[swift veldt]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Are you learning Python?

[vital basalt]

yes

and c++

[swift veldt]

nice.

[vital basalt]

wbu are you already well-versed in python?

[swift veldt]

well-versed, I don't know. But I do use it often as I'm pursuing a MSc in Data Science.

[vital basalt]

oh cool, I thought about doing data science but I realised I'd probably hate it

I'm more interested in software development, I don't wanna handle data for a living

[swift veldt]

mhm.

[vital basalt]

but yeah data science is cool just not for me that's what I meant lol

[swift veldt]

no worries.

Data wrangling isn't often fun

[near ocean]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[native panther]

what paid opportunities can a high school student get with python? what python knowledge should i have to get jobs/internships in high school?

i don’t plan to go to college in cs but i’m definitely going to keep cs as a back up skill

[near ocean]

I dont think you can find anything paid while in school, mainly cause its more of a hassle to employ a minor

[native panther]

ah i see

[vapid jay]

@fallen thicket

[true harness]

dude why do you keep pinging this guy everywhere

[neat grove]

!mute 768210698463346719 1d Pinging a user across channels.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until 2021-01-22 19:40 (23 hours and 59 minutes).

[vapid jay]

Hello, I'm looking for a phytoneer or pythonistas that could give me free tutoring. Covid has changed the way we look at the world and therefore I am learning programming to make a career change. Your efforts will not go to waste and I'm highly motivated in learning and studying which will make it easier for you to teach me.

The benefits you will get is learning how to teach and tutor with a highly willing, understanding, and adaptable student. If you're one of those rare people that values knowledge and wisdom then you shall receive it in abundance from me in return for your knowledge.

Please contact me trough PM.

[swift veldt]

I don't think that work like that, dude. If people teach, it's usually against pay.
If you're looking for free tutoring, definitely check out Udemy and Coursera where you can review classes without having to pay.

[golden tundra]

@vapid jay Quite frankly, I think you’re going about asking for help the wrong way
I find it rather off putting, personally speaking

And I am/have been a CS tutor

[vapid jay]

"I find it rather off putting" well tell some who cares. I'm asking for a tutor and if it isn't you then shuffle along.

[swift prairie]

lemme tell ya home dog, everything ive learned about python in college you can learn on youtube

often much better too

[wheat hatch]

Demonstrating that understanding personality right there

[swift prairie]

@vapid jay watch this entire video https://youtu.be/_uQrJ0TkZlc

thats where I started

and its basically college education

can confirm

at least for the how to use the coding language aspect

[swift veldt]

You won't get a tutor with that attitude. Especially a free one. Just saying.
If you really want to learn python there is a ton of free resources around. What you need to ask yourself is what do you want out of a tutor that you can't get by self-study/review of documentation. Knowledge isn't copy and paste.

[golden tundra]

Well, you certainly have a self important attitude

[vapid jay]

"You won't get a tutor with that attitude" from which rock do you people keep out under?

I won't get a free tutor for python which only leaves me to melt with snowflakes like python programmers seem to mostly consist off

[swift veldt]

what?

dude

dude

[golden tundra]

How very incoherent

Not to mention belligerent and aggressive

[proven field]

Hello

I am 13 and

I code for money

python, HTML, c++ and much more

for real tho

[swift veldt]

You've posted the same message in 4 different channels: #python-discussion, #career-advice, #web-development and #databases, trying to rake in free tutoring in what it feels like a strongly condescending way.

Reb has given you relevant advice, you should take it.

[proven field]

i make a lota money

[swift veldt]

Neat. Being able to make some money on the side at 13 is pretty good.

[heavy rapids]

how should I put in my resume that I did 3 years of college but dropped out?

[proven field]

damn

you dropped out

bro I am like the best student

I go to a private school due to the scholarship I got

[jolly furnace]

lmao y u flexing

[proven field]

that aint flex

that is just the list what i own

[jolly furnace]

lmao this dude

okay buddy

[proven field]

due to my intelegence

lmao maybe i am flexing a bit

[golden tundra]

Is there a particular point to saying all this?

[proven field]

I have a question tho dose anyone know CSS

@golden tundra it is self introduction

[near ocean]

Can yall calm down

[golden tundra]

I don’t believe that qualifies as a self intro, honestly

[swift veldt]

3 years of college are still 3 years of college. So you learned stuff there. I would put that on my resume to provide background about myself. It would also highlight what I could have learned during that time.

[heavy rapids]

right now I have put it like

Uni of X
June 20xx to June 20xx

@swift veldt I'll leave it at that

but let's say I do get selected, should I bring it up to my boss/HR that I am not a graduate?

[swift veldt]

not unless asked.

but honestly, you're always asked the 'who are you' question.

There you're given the chance to explain your 'life story'

mentioning you dropped out there, and why is the best opportunity you're given to do so.

some will take that against you

some will not.

but at least you're showing you won't lie by omission.

I.e. you gotta weight the pros and cons.

[near ocean]

It'll probably be more sus if you leave it out

Recruiters will definitely ask about a 3 year gap in your history

[heavy rapids]

I'll go with what RoMS said

thanks

[elder shard]

anyone willing to give me a quick second to help me make a quote on a website im building for a friend?

[trim swift]

How much work do you believe you have to put into the website? Do you think it will be quick enough that you can charge a flat rate or is it something that's going to require time where you'd need to charge hourly?

[elder shard]

Im confident if i grind it out itll be done within a month, they're not asking for a lot for the site its quite simple

[lyric vortex]

Hey guys

can def cage def can not

[little trellis]

What happened here today? Why is there so much hostility

[dusky glade]

What's an hour of your time worth? Estimate how long everything would take then assume it will take 25% longer than that and bill your friend accordingly

If he wasn't your friend j would say estimate it'd take 50% more than your best guess

[wild timber]

hey guys

quick question

i recently interviewed at a company and they said they'll be in touch on wednesday regarding references

its thursday night and they haven't responded anything

is this a bad sign?

[golden tundra]

It could be. It could also mean something happened and held them up. It could be a lot of things and trying to speculate probably isn’t helpful to you, it’ll just make you anxious

At this point, you should concentrate on any other interview processes you’re in

[wild timber]

thanks for the heads up

this is the only interview i got

so i guess ill just continue with the job search

[delicate bane]

good luck my dude. 1 day is too soon but yeah maybe give them a couple days and then follow up on it?

[little trellis]

Are you working with a recruiter or just a hiring manager/ someone in HR @wild timber

[hazy prawn]

Follow up question! Are recruiters the best option to go through when starting out or would it be better to invest time into reaching out to each company's hiring managers?

[little trellis]

When starting out getting good external recruiters to work for you can be difficult. It would probably be best to get ahold of the hiring manager if possible or at least an internal recruiter @hazy prawn

[gloomy tree]

Best places to freelance?

[vapid jay]

What are the rules of freelancing?
Do you host/manage after it's been made or is it like build it, bill it, walk away (customer can manage).

[woven shell]

Oops sory

[vapid jay]

Is there somebody here who has a finance background and is good in python?

[swift veldt]

I'm still here, yes.

but "good in python" is hella relative

[icy berry]

Was there a ping to me?

[swift veldt]

Not from what I can see.

[glass verge]

Is their any python competitions that can be Participate in team

[vapid jay]

the last three messages all rhyme

it's like a rap

[vapid jay]

😅

[ocean ledge]

question guys: how should i negotiate a salary increase?

[swift veldt]

It's really country dependent. But these days, I'd say that the best salary increase you can get is by switching jobs -- or having a job lined up to negotiate a salary where you are.

[delicate bane]

i just started a masters program rn. is it better to schedule my courseload so that i have the opportunity to do 2 internships or should i finish in 1.5 years and go immediately into the job market afterwards?

[swift veldt]

where do you live?

[trim swift]

Is someone able to read my resume and let me know if it's good enough for a backend developer position using python/django?

[vapid jay]

Would you switch jobs in these economic situation ?

[ocean ledge]

us, nyc area-- i'm wondering the viability of asking for a 50% raise

i know i won't get it, but did anyone do that strategy of asking with the intent of getting a middle ground?

[swift veldt]

I went back to uni. lel.

[swift veldt]

Never done, but I've helped HR before and you'll kinda be laughed out of the room.

Also nice pseudonym. I see the Functional Programming discord left its mark

[ocean ledge]

it's a math term way before fp

[swift veldt]

sure. But in programming, I'd say it's a big haskell-related term.

albeit it's not just haskell.

ofc.

[golden tundra]

@ocean ledge Your best bet for attempting to negotiate that raise is to make your case well

First, figure out your reason

Is it because you’re being underpaid? Because you think you bring additional value to the table to warrant it? Both?

If you think you’re being underpaid, do your research on market value

And bring that with you

If it’s because of increased value, then be prepared to present your accomplishments

Here’s a link to a blog I like to use for work advice that lays it out and also notes factors like timing your request right
https://www.askamanager.org/2018/02/the-ask-a-manager-guide-to-asking-for-a-raise.html

I think the thing to really consider here is how reasonable you find your company to be

Are they historically fair to the employees?

Do they give raises regularly and fairly?

If you otherwise like your work and you think your company will take a raise request well, I don’t see the point in assuming the only way to get a raise is to get another job
Although, if getting a raise would be key to your job satisfaction, I don’t see the harm in starting to look for a new job in case the raise request doesn’t pan out

I just don’t think that should be your first resort

Side note: I don’t think it necessarily makes sense to ask for a 50% raise in hopes of getting a more mid level raise

You might just make yourself sound really out of touch

[vapid jay]

uff

i got scammed of 80 euros in bitcoin :c

[delicate bane]

sorry, were you talking to me or guy above

[swift veldt]

You. I was asking about that because your question can be location dependent.

[dense mesa]

I have a virtual assessment centre for a SWE internship at NatWest in Edinburgh

The specifics haven't been mentioned, but I want to focus on my python knowledge as it can be used for pseudocode etc

Any recommendations?

[lucid ginkgo]

is there any application of python in web-developement?

I'm gonna be learning web-developement for the next three years because I really like bringing stuff into the public and contributing to something everyone can access

[swift veldt]

definitely. You have Django and Flask libraries for webapps.

[lucid ginkgo]

that's nice. I really like python because it is so intuitive compared to other programming languages

except for some stuff I just have to learn

but I think in my training as an IT specialist I'll just learn PHP, HTML, JavaScript and CSS. I don't think they do anything with Python

[chilly jetty]

any other good ones to try out for a project other n these two???

[swift veldt]

off the top of my head, I don't know.

[delicate bane]

texas. im in dfw rn but lived in austin and san antonio for a few years each.

wouldnt mind moving back

oh im studying AI and ML rn in grad school lol

[delicate bane]

TkInter is the basic GUI that comes with python

[chilly jetty]

i see, ty. will go check it out

[swift veldt]

Your choice are either to go for a summer internship at a company, or do a 'gap year' where you can strike two 'off-cycle' internships in a row. Both have their advantage. But since you are in the US, you might prefer the first choice. A lot of internship are supposed to judge you to see if you could be a good employee. As such, you might get a return offer for your first internship that you'd not be able to accept if you were doing a gap year. So in the case of the USA, at the grad level, the gap year might be the wrong choice.

Maybe @golden tundra can back me up on this.

[delicate bane]

wild

but i guess it makes sense the way you put it

is it that different for other countries?

[swift veldt]

yeah, but it also depend on your level of study.

[delicate bane]

[swift veldt]

Continental Europe, I feel like, has more off-cycle internship and there is an idea that you should take a year off during your study to acquire some experience.

I'll give you the French example where people would do an internship gap year before going to study their master's and after finishing a license (think of it as a three-year Bachelor).

[delicate bane]

oh like a co-op experience?

[swift veldt]

Sometimes you do that between the two years of the Master's

[delicate bane]

thats what they call it instead of internship when its like that

[swift veldt]

maybe, yeah

[delicate bane]

[swift veldt]

for instance I did a gap year where I had two six-month off cycle internships.

from june to november and december to may

[delicate bane]

nice nice

[sterile vault]

BTW, how do you make impressive portfolio pieces in Python? Usually smaller stuff is incredibly specific (like doing very specific processing of user data) and larger stuff heavily depends on existing infrastructure.

[delicate bane]

yeah i think its less common in US but there are positions like that.

[delicate bane]

whats wrong with existing infrastructure

lots of cool libraries and frameworks out there

[golden tundra]

I feel like in the US, people want to see experience. So you’d want at least one internship
But I don’t have a master’s, I can’t speak to how differently that works

I can say that once I had one internship under my belt, I had a much easier time getting interviews

[delicate bane]

idk either. this field is kinda new-ish

def gonna try to get 1

dunno if its worth it to get 2

might be better to just go into the job market directly after

[golden tundra]

My personal opinion would be that I wouldn’t think two is worth delaying graduation

[sterile vault]

I mean - something like big database with lots of interconnected tables and code that handles various joins and filters. I can replicate it with small 1-table SQLite DB, but it's not the same.

[delicate bane]

thats what my intuition is telling me

[golden tundra]

It’s better to have multiple internships over a smaller one given a smaller time frame. So if you have two internships in 4 years of college versus someone who has 1 internship in 4 years

[delicate bane]

maybe ask in #data-science-and-ml

[golden tundra]

I do think a potential benefit to multiple internships is getting a chance to explore multiple companies

[delicate bane]

true

[sterile vault]

Ah, the question is less "how to do that" and more "how to show my next employer that I'm capable of doing that"

[golden tundra]

If you did the two internship schedule, would they both be summer internships?

[delicate bane]

yes

[golden tundra]

Or would one be like a fall internship?

[delicate bane]

oh i guess i could make it so its a fall one too

[golden tundra]

As a side note
You might be able to do a part time internship while still in school

So it’s not necessarily either/or

[delicate bane]

this is also true

but im also working part time lol

maybe next semester

[golden tundra]

For the 1.5 year plan, would you instead be taking summer classes?

[delicate bane]

nah id be doing an additional class one semester

or 2

[golden tundra]

So you wouldn’t actually be losing any time, per se

[delicate bane]

[golden tundra]

Do you have undergrad internships?

[delicate bane]

a couple

but in a different field

[golden tundra]

How related is it?

[delicate bane]

it depends on the company tbh

on what industry they are

but mostly probably not

[golden tundra]

I think part of the whole resume thing is they’d like to know if you have work experience in a professional environment

[delicate bane]

i see

thats a yes ig

[golden tundra]

So the undergrad internships aren’t as good as CS internships but they still are helpful

[delicate bane]

yeah

that makes sense

[golden tundra]

I’m leaning on the side of graduate in 1.5 years

[delicate bane]

ok

[golden tundra]

That’s just my opinion though

[delicate bane]

that will be my plan A

thanks tho

sometimes its nice to talk through these things

thanks again friend

[keen parrot]

Computer engineering or computer science

[peak halo]

What?

[delicate bane]

heard about this on a podcast

good if youre job searching

https://hired.com/about

its focused for tech jobs

or tech-adjacent

[lethal escarp]

This one as well

https://jumpstart.me/

[delicate bane]

oh this one looks clean

[delicate bane]

they have a bunch of communities too so you can find your niche, nice

[dense mesa]

Is that for internships too?

[vernal marlin]

Does anyone know of anywhere online where i can casually talk with people working as software devs? This community seems very beginner focused which is great, but I'd like to speak with people who are already underway in their careers. Is IRC the only place for that sort of non-beginnery discussion? Also not 100% sure this is the right channel, but none seem to fit

[vapid jay]

loooking for a py deve

[swift veldt]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[marsh wind]

It's very beginner friendly, yea, but not beginner focused imo. There are people with quite some experience here and plenty of high quality discussions ie in #internals-and-peps

[little trellis]

Yeah @vernal marlin, feel free to talk about more senior topics related to careers here. Plenty of us can contribute

With that note, how ya'll feeling about your careers? Everyone on a path the like right now?

[vernal marlin]

I'm finishing up my degree, with 2 internships completed and 2 or 3 job offers for when I graduate. The thing is, I don't feel my 2 internships gave me too much insight as to what a good place to work looks like. Both were old fashioned corporations that have been around for 100+years. I feel like the best way for me to get a picture of what a "good" workplace would be like for me is just by osmosis, seeing conversations others are having about their work and what's good/bad etc (for example, clearly the guy having daily 2hr meetings that he doesn't care about isn't in love with every aspect of his work).

I have no frame of reference for small startups vs middling companies vs scaleups vs finance corps... and that's what I really want to get a picture of before I end up writing C# at banks for the next 40 years

[golden tundra]

How experienced software devs are you looking to talk to?

I feel like this channel spans the gamut

But in a pyramid style, so you’re most likely to find beginners, then relatively new devs, then mid level devs, etc

[little trellis]

I've worked as a Data Engineer at both a large and medium sized company now. And as a Marketing Director at a smaller company where I did mostly data analysis and web dev. I would say that the bigger the company, the more benefits and prestige you get, but the more boring it can be. There tends to be a lot of blockers as there are multiple different teams to go through for everything. The smaller companies can be more fun as you can really be an expert on what you're doing and contribute a lot. The problem there is you tend to take home a lot more of the stress of the company and take it all personally along with almost surely working more hours.

I'm not sure how many places there are where people talk too in depth about their work due to people generally having employer restrictions around that type of stuff

[golden tundra]

Between my internships and full time, I’ve had some level of experience within a startup, a mid sized company, and a big, more corporate company

I’d say the corporate had more dumb bureaucratic things that needed to be done for logging time and meetings and such purely because there were so many people involved, but it was also the kindest to beginners because it had the most experience with hiring them and understanding what they know and don’t know

[little trellis]

☝️

[vapid jay]

is some one looking for get hired

[little trellis]

Also easier to move between teams in a big org if you see something else you think you might like better

[golden tundra]

@vapid jay You’ve asked about hiring people five times

[little trellis]

Luckily, for engineers it seems like companies are more forgiving when you move around a lot. It gives you a chance to try new companies a lot throughout your career and see what you like. There's less of a chance you'll get stuck somewhere since everyone is scrambling to find talented engineers.

That's if you're good which I'm assuming you are and will be

[golden tundra]

You’ve already been told you can’t advertise in here

[vernal marlin]

I know a few people who are quite open about this stuff - but they're all east coast US based and all in similar sorts of government contractor intel/defence jobs.

Thanks for your take though, that's helpful and I'm glad to have seen it

[little trellis]

Happy to help @vernal marlin

[orchid sand]

I can't talk

Why?

@karmic loom

U know why?

[near ocean]

Cant talk where

[orchid sand]

In voice

Aaaa

thx

[near ocean]

#voice-verification

[orchid sand]

I sent less than 50

Thx

Guys

[delicate bane]

i dont think so but i didnt look closely

[glacial sluice]

hey guys, general sent me here

i dont have a CS degree, or any degree.
can a person residing in the US realistically get a job soley from knowing python, and how skilled would one have to be?

[vapid jay]

Do you have any degree? A misconception is that you need a CS degree but you don't even do a lot of programming in CS

So yes you can get a job as long as you have the skills

[ivory laurel]

i abandoned university and work as python developer xd

[glacial sluice]

i left school years ago. i was an engineeing student but i left after my first year cuz circumstances

[ivory laurel]

but in poland

[glacial sluice]

ayyyy so its possible

[ivory laurel]

sure

[vapid jay]

Of course

what did you think?

[ivory laurel]

i know a lot of people that have non it degree and work as developers

[golden tundra]

I feel like only knowing Python is kind of limiting though

[vapid jay]

Agree

[golden tundra]

Most developer jobs use multiple languages

[vapid jay]

Not only languages matter in developers job

[ivory laurel]

not sure about "most"

[glacial sluice]

my favorite class was intro to Combinational Logic i think
i plan to learn JS and SQL too

[golden tundra]

Also, I don’t know how being in Poland changes things
In the US, we have a de-emphasize on trade schools and a strong emphasis on college

I have a degree and so can’t speak to the experience searching without a degree

[ivory laurel]

i have never been asked about degree lol

[golden tundra]

Right, but you’re in Poland

[vapid jay]

As long as you have your reasons for learning them

[golden tundra]

That’s what I’m trying to get at

I don’t know how realistic that would be in the US

[unborn merlin]

is there an open #hire chat to hire someone for a project?

[golden tundra]

My understanding is the US changed a lot after WW2 and there was a growing emphasis on going to college

Having a degree is seen as a bare minimum requisite for a lot of jobs that really wouldn’t require college level training

It’s not really fair, but that’s the way the US is

I have a friend who’s a dev who originally started without a degree, but he worked his way up through the company

[vapid jay]

Look even here in the US, you can get a job without a CS degree almost the devs I know have a different degree like Math and went to bootcamp for programming, then got a job.

[glacial sluice]

@vapid jay i think they're necessay for web dev stuff?

[ivory laurel]

sql?

[golden tundra]

That’s true, but urban doesn’t have a degree at all
A lot of job postings I saw wanted at least a related degree

[glacial sluice]

sql is for backend right?

[golden tundra]

Kind of

[ivory laurel]

yeap

[golden tundra]

It’s for databases

[vapid jay]

look don't just look at job description

In job description they say +4 years experience for junior devloper job That doesn't make sense

[golden tundra]

I know people with math, econ, and various engineering degrees who picked up CS throughout the course of their degree and got CS jobs

[vapid jay]

Job description aren't written by actual developers

[golden tundra]

But those are kind of classed as related degrees

[glacial sluice]

im learning python mostly because it has the most hype i guess.

probably should have thought more

[golden tundra]

Asking for 4 years of experience but being willing to accept 2 is a lot different from college degree/no college degree

I think Python is a great beginner lang

So it’s a good first step

[vapid jay]

The bottom line is have the skills and you'll get the job where ever you are

Languages don't matter so much

[golden tundra]

I mean
urban has to make it past the initial screenings
Which may not be a skill test
So I very much don’t think “if you have the skills, you’ll get the job” is good blanket advice
Very few of the jobs I applied for sent me a skills test without having me fill out a basic form, including whether or not I had a degree

@glacial sluice I think Python is a great first step, but you should try to pick up a popular statically typed language after you’re strong on basic Python

Front end devs mostly use JavaScript, I would say

There’s some that use like Django or something

But I mostly see various JavaScript libraries

[vapid jay]

I think before picking a language, you should look at the demand in your area so you know which languages are better to learn

[glacial sluice]

do you think id fry my brain trying to learn JS and Python simultaeously

[golden tundra]

It’s certainly possible to get a CS job without a degree, but it is going to be harder because of that expectation that everyone has a degree, so I think your best chance is making yourself as strong a candidate as possible

[glacial sluice]

ok

[golden tundra]

Only knowing Python would be rather limiting

[vapid jay]

If you use python, you'll learn between Django and flask

[golden tundra]

I would recommend just doing Python for now because it’s your first language
You’re going to want Python firm and solid in your head before you pick up something else, with its different language quirks.

[vapid jay]

I think you can learn any language fast after you've learn a language properly believe me

[bold silo]

I agree. Focusing on one language allows you to learn with depth, which usually helps you know what questions to ask when you start another language.

[vapid jay]

well easier

[ivory laurel]

learning python took me like 2-3 month after 2 years of C++ codding

[glacial sluice]

i feel like here's a lot of beginner resources but im worried about after i finish this pdf guide

[golden tundra]

I’m recommending that you also pick up a statically typed language because a lot of those are popular in industry and reasonably similar to each other (so if you know one, you can pick up another fast) and because it’s worth knowing differences between dynamically typed (Python) and statically typed

It’ll give you a better understanding of CS in general

[glacial sluice]

how will i know when i have properly learned python>

[ivory laurel]

newer xd

[swift veldt]

whispers in Haskell

[glacial sluice]

:0

[swift veldt]

[golden tundra]

Ugh

ROMS, don’t remind me

As a side note

[ivory laurel]

there is always something new

[golden tundra]

I think Haskell is a great counterpoint to the idea that once you’ve learned one language, you can learn the rest easily

A lot of languages are on different levels

I never want to think about currying functions again

[swift veldt]

Yep. Haskell is a real pain in the but to just get. But it makes you think in ways you've not before, which is kinda neat.

[vapid jay]

Yes that's why I talked about py and Js

[golden tundra]

And do you think MIPS suddenly becomes east after you know a lang

[glacial sluice]

which statically typed languages are good to learn?
ill search in my area ofc

[swift veldt]

I'll not say (+1) to that.

[golden tundra]

My favorite is Java

C++ and C# are also quite common

[ivory laurel]

typescript also nice

[golden tundra]

As for how do you know when you’re good at a lang

I’d say look at the complexity of your projects

[swift veldt]

Java is good. More recently, you've had Typescript (which, if you know javascript already is deece), but also Scala, which is basically a functional skin on top of Java.

Spark is written in Scala iirc.

[ivory laurel]

@glacial sluice my suggestion is take something popular and learn it

there are a lot jobs in Java or C#

[jolly furnace]

i personally think type hinting in javascript is nice

[ivory laurel]

but not for Rust xd

[jolly furnace]

which is basically typescript

[golden tundra]

That’s part of why I recced urban pick up a statically typed language

They’re popular in industry and will make them more well rounded

I consider myself reasonably competent in Java. I‘ve done compiler stuff, threading, simple video games, and what have you in there

As you learn CS, you’ll get a handle on what concepts are trickier

And so when you know how to do those concepts well, you’ll have an idea of your skill

This might help a bit
In my school, one of the most advanced topics in the beginner CS class was recursion
The class that came right after the beginner class was data structures and algorithms

[glacial sluice]

oof so java and other static languages perform "type checking" at "runtime" as opposed to "compile time"

[swift veldt]

gotta invert the binary tree, reb.

[golden tundra]

A lot of dynamically typed languages use the duck typing principle, which I’m personally not a big fan of, it’s less safe and more prone to errors

If you can shove any random thing into a function at runtime

[swift veldt]

It depends. Type checking is performed at compile time in Haskell for instance as you have to declare your function types (you have some inference ofc, but it's stylistically a nono).

[glacial sluice]

im so unfamiliar with these terms

i guess i have much to learn

[swift veldt]

I was too. You will learn them by osmosis as you get to learn more and more. And yeah, there's always something to learn, which is neat.

[ivory laurel]

you will newer stop learning in CS

this is the best part of programming

[golden tundra]

You’re not going to be ready for interviews until you’re at least at the data structures and algorithms stage

If that helps

I object
The best part of programming is trying to come up with clever solutions to your problems

[glacial sluice]

im aware of some things, like the idea of recursion
i know what an algorithm is in the context of psychology and im guessing it's not too different?

[ivory laurel]

it is also nice thing

[swift veldt]

For that, there is the 'Cracking the Coding Interview' book. It's a bit of a meme at this point, but it's a good outlook into the realm of data structures.

[golden tundra]

Algorithms are specific ways to solve things

it’s kind of hard to describe

[swift veldt]

it's an efficient process to achieve a task. Ex. what's the best way to reach a point b from a point a in a maze.

summons the ghost of Dijkstra