career-advice

[near ocean]

Thats just lame tbh

I dont wanna do SEO on my cv just so i can get on an employer's desk

[glossy pecan]

it's pretty awful, tech recruiters are not great but I find they're useful sometimes to get past HR

[lyric walrus]

https://github.com/michael-m-truong/3x3-sliding-puzzle-solver

i put this on my resume, what u guys think?

[grave tiger]

Thats after the crypto entrepreneurs joined Linkedin

[little trellis]

Linked In is only good because you'll get messages from recruiters where a small subset of the jobs are decent.

[midnight bolt]

I'm not sure if this is the right channel to post this but I'll take a chance.

I decided on a career change a little over a year and half ago and committed to learning Python during that time. I've done various side projects of my own and also was extremely lucky enough to land a entry level position at a company through someone I know. Unfortunately, that company ended up going under and I have not yet formally worked as a software developer.

I've been looking through employment sites and have been difficult because I'm coming from such a different work background.

I'd like to figure out how to get my foot in the door in order to get a proper start on becoming employed. I'm completely willing to work for free in order to gain experience and to learn what it takes to become employable. Are there any methods I can try to make myself useful to anyone?

[mortal wedge]

My hiring manager did review github, but this was only for the final panel of interviewers.

err, candidates

@midnight bolt Unfortunately you're in a bit of a rough spot. Even though that company went under, you're saying you weren't employed as a software developer there at the time?

If the work you were doing was close enough to a software dev position, you can put it on your resume

[near ocean]

So how does a candidate with only education and github on their cv get to the final phase of an application

[mortal wedge]

By applying for an entry level position and hoping the other candidates don't have experience on you, lol. Or that all the other candidates fail for some reason

Getting your first job is a clusterfuck

[fallen dew]

I think that holds true in most careers unfortunately

Everybody wants experience, experience, experience when hiring

So first one is always a bitch when you literally cannot put experience on your resumé/CV. I guess internships almost certainly can help, though

[crude crown]

They sure do.

It seems to me they're non-negotiable nowadays for anyone studying CS.

[fallen dew]

I’m trying to eventually move myself into a data science type career from accounting, I’m sure getting past the resumé keyword phase of the application process will be a bitch having no prior programming experience, no CS degree, no internships, etc.

Will probably need to know somebody, get lucky, or have them actually look at GH projects and stuff

Or some combination of the above

[near ocean]

I'm kind of in a similar situation, trying to get into webdev with a finance degree and no internships or experience

And just a tiny sample of frontend work on GH

[fallen dew]

Or somehow convince my current job down the road to transition me into a newly-created role that could benefit the company in that way once I have the right skillset

Nice, GL on that 👍🏻

I’ve got a bachelor’s in accounting but am definitely not thinking about going to take out more loans to get a degree in CS too lol.

[near ocean]

Accounting is a nice way to show off it and coding skills

[fallen dew]

At least I can show that I’m proficient in Excel that could be useful, but that’s about it. I still most likely need to learn SQL, R, as well as getting better at Python

[near ocean]

Try to automate your workflow

Write a script to do your excel work in pandas or something similar

[fallen dew]

Yeah, I’m mostly still in the brainstorming step of what I can automate since I’m a nub at python

But there are definitely a few things I’ll be able to work on automating

Thank you for the tips. I’ve definitely heard a lot about pandas, but haven’t used it yet

[summer roost]

freelancing is self-employed work for hire. It's like a handyman doing odd jobs, except instead of a handyman you're a coder.

you can, or you can hand out business cards to everyone you meet, or post your email address on bullet boards in your town. That's all freelancing.

but yes, there are sites that try to pair people who want work with people who want jobs done - fiverr.com is one

[vapid jay]

How real is it to get a job without a degree?

I am thinking of not going to college as what I'll be taught there is already freely available on the internet

any suggestions

[onyx steeple]

Can you use python and ML programming skills to get into the cybersecurity industry?

[near ocean]

Not as real as you think, anyone saying otherwise is probably hallucinating or the exception to the rule

[vapid jay]

Why?

[vapid jay]

Are there any implications of ML in cybersecurity?

[near ocean]

A degree is one of those credentials that you must have for most jobs

[vapid jay]

Nowadays a lot of companies and most startups don't require a degree

[near ocean]

What do they require then

[vapid jay]

skills

[near ocean]

How do you showcase skills if not an accredited certification

[vapid jay]

On the spoy

*spot

[onyx steeple]

There must be if you ask me

[near ocean]

You think good looks and charms would get you across the table from a hiring manager?

[vapid jay]

like face detection, yeah

[vapid jay]

i didnt said that

[near ocean]

How app wouldnt even get through the automated filter without a degree

[onyx steeple]

applications and Operating systems need to constantly update their defenses to fight ever evolving malwares so AI and ML must have a big hand in that

[vapid jay]

Like showcasing projects in resume

[summer roost]

It is possible to get a job while being entirely self taught, but it's much harder than getting a job by going to some sort of school. The pressure and time tables imposed on you by classes, and the fact that grades force you to stick with things that you don't have much interest in, makes it much easier to stick with it and learn things.

[vapid jay]

Yeah

[onyx steeple]

Well companies like Tesla, SpaceX dont look for degrees so if your'e in the States, a good resume and strong knowledge base might be all you need.

[near ocean]

Theres convo way up from people that did some hiring as part of their role, saying that they would only have a couple mins to go through your github and projects

[vapid jay]

Your argument is right

[near ocean]

And thats only if you get through the filters

[vapid jay]

Yess

[onyx steeple]

By resume I mean having worked on numerous projects of your own and competitions etc.

[summer roost]

it's possible to get a job while being entirely self taught, but you can expect that it will probably be more work than anything you've done in your entire life so far, and it will take you several years of studying as though it's a full-time job.

[onyx steeple]

I am currently enrolled in a very shit degree so I have thhe same question as you hahaa

[vapid jay]

haa

[summer roost]

and you'll be missing out on major advantages that might not be obvious if you've never done any formal software development schooling - you won't get any experience building applications as part of a team, you won't have any ability to get internships (which are the single most useful thing you can do with your time in college), and it will be much harder to form a network of people who are going into the same field as you - those friends are helpful in getting jobs in the future, or for telling you what companies to work for and what to avoid, or for pushing you to learn things you otherwise wouldn't.

[near ocean]

Honestly the biggest thing you can do is college isnt the learning

Its the networking

[onyx steeple]

very true

[near ocean]

Shit you learn in college wont matter anywhere, you'll relearn it in your junior years

[summer roost]

if you do decide to go down the route of avoiding a 4 year college, consider a 2 year program. If you can't do that, consider a software development bootcamp (or 2, or 3). And expect that, even after all of that, you're competing for jobs against college grads who have an advantage against you. They've got a GPA and a school name that can prove what they've learned.

if you don't have a degree and a GPA to point to, you'll need to be able to point to either lots of medium to large sized projects that you built on your own, or to a bunch of small freelance jobs that you've done while working your way up to trying to land a full time position. So focusing on building a portfolio will be key.

[vapid jay]

My coding buddy also mention he'd also be making 20k more a year in the exact same position if he had a bachelor's degree

[full mauve]

Balancing education, continued learning and expected is incredibly important while writing software. You can only skip so much and still be effective.

Expected = experience

[summer roost]

internships help with this to a phenomenal degree, too. The difference in skill level between a college grad who hasn't worked in software yet versus one who has worked for 6 moths full time doing some sort of software development is night and day. It's incredible.

the part your buddy is missing is that he likely deserves to be making 20k less than people with the degree. They probably know things he doesn't, and are able to pick some things up faster. And they are, from the point of view of the company that decided to take a risk by hiring him, safer bets - he was the higher risk acquisition.

[full mauve]

@summer roost agreed. There are concepts that form other concepts that were based on one thing a professor said 20 years ago. It’s very nice being around some smart people who just like to talk for 4-6 or 8 years.

[summer roost]

yep. eventually, the salary between someone with a degree and without should level out - it shouldn't be a permanent barrier. But if you don't have a college degree, you should definitely expect to start with a significantly lower salary.

just because two people both hold a "junior software developer" job doesn't mean they're created equal, and it's entirely possible that the amount of work that the company has to put into reviewing their work and training them up to become competent independent software developers is worth that extra $20k per year or whatever it is. Training is expensive, and all of the time that a senior engineer spends teaching you something is time that they're not spending doing senior engineer software development.

it's definitely possible to get a job without a degree, but don't make the mistake of thinking it's the easier path, is what I'm trying to say, @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

I agree

[vapid jay]

Yess networking matters a lot

[near ocean]

Sure?

Who's stopping you

[prime prawn]

sound like a copy paste also not the correct channel for it

[digital fjord]

@reef juniper this is very clearly false, I will not presume you were malicious, but the repeated name is not changed, so I doubt this is a real warning

[delicate portal]

I guess the fundamental question is how much damage does a career break typically do to a developer's career?

[craggy wave]

I've had a short sabbatical between my current job and the end of my last one, about three months. I don't think it hurt me in my job hunt (covid-19 did), but they did ask about it. Now, I did work on projects in the mean time (freelance and open source), so that was a more than adequate answer for my current employer.

I'm not sure if six months of self study, without certificates to show for it, will help you get a better pay; having a stronger portfolio might (but is also no guarantee).

However, it could help you to improve a lot and I don't think you'll probably going to miss a lot of job opportunities because of it (your mileage may vary; it also depends on your local job market).

That said, more formal time as a software developer on your resume is something that counts (even if you think it does not actually help you progress that much; your next employer probably doesn't know that.)

[delicate portal]

That makes sense, thanks. My current company uses a lot of unfashionable tech (who doesn't love Fortran?), so I tend to be a poor match for a lot of job adverts, but maybe I need to bite the bullet and just apply for a lot of different jobs. If it's typical for companies to provide training to junior devs, then maybe that would be a better solution than trying to go it alone. I suppose the thing to avoid is doing a lot of book learning and not enough projects for my GitHub profile.

[marsh wind]

Fortran has its uses.

I don't think companies often provide formal training to juniors, but if you are lucky to work with good senior devs it can give you plenty of useful hands-on experinece that would match any training

[shadow moss]

FORTRAN is rock solid for CSV carving

[delicate portal]

Yeah, Fortran is perfectly good for numerical code, it just seems to be uncommon outside of a few industries and academia, which makes it a bit career-limiting (at least for the kind of work I do).
I think a big limitation of my current employer is that we're quite understaffed, so I very rarely work with other devs (senior or junior) at all.

[oblique sedge]

Hello all, I am new to both this server and coding In general, I am curious about one day getting a job in cloud computing and was wondering which programming language would be best for this. I was thinking of initially learning python just because of how beginner friendly it seems but I'd like to know your guys' opinion on the subject.
Thanks

[marsh wind]

?

[shadow moss]

We still have FORTRAN at work, it's used to carve up and manipulate CSVs and for being ancient language, it's still good at that (it also runs on mainframes)

like amazing so

[marsh wind]

i'm just a bit surpised as manipulation of CSVs does not seem of computationally very hard to justify using Fortran

like, usually you see it used when there're lots of numerical shit, aka matrices, differentinal/integral equations, systems of equations blah blah

[shadow moss]

Sure, we do a ton of that with it as well

[visual glade]

i have a very noob question. i have forgotten all high sch level math and have been learning python for around 3mths. if i had 6 months to self-study and work on projects, which career would it be more possible to get an entry-level job: a Data Engineer or Machine Learning Engineer? pls @ me for replies 🙂

[north goblet]

Can someone please help me with IKM Python Assessment general questions or dumps.

[drowsy tree]

how is cybersecurity with python?

[thorny drum]

You have your best shot as a Data Engineer. It's very hard to get a job as a Machine Learning Engineer. You won't just need high school level math, but a minimum of undergraduate level CS and Math courses that relate to Machine Learning.

[uncut ledge]

usually you would network with the people above your age, correct?

Also, what is in higher demand (and assuming you have good knoweledge of the subject as well), machine learning or data scientist

you could also use networking for getting internships, correct?

like if one kid you are friends with got an intership, could he / she give advice to that company, or not really?

okay, tysm!

[vapid jay]

hey guys

i would like some advice

so

https://mvb.netlify.com

heres my resume

im currently 13 years old

not really

its like the same as google

https://ase.varikuti.repl.co

its verified

ok, so any suggestions

thank you btw

?

that last aprt of your sentence doesnt make sense

OH

ok

good idea

lol

ok

ok

anything else?

oh, idk why it does that on chrome

i think becasue It was made with react or becasue the ending of the website is .app

yea

[vapid jay]

I see

[visual glade]

thanks for the advice! are u working in any of these fields?

[vapid jay]

looking for a dev to work remotly

[vapid jay]

Thanks

[digital fjord]

@vapid jay this server is not for recruitment

[vapid jay]

How i can hire some one sir

[digital fjord]

I would suggest upwork or fiverr

[vapid jay]

thanks

[crude crown]

Eh, I'm strongly thinking of moving away from data science.

[fringe belfry]

self taught - with a little work experience, flatiron school , bootcamp

which is the best route

[open garnet]

Hello everyone, What are possible python jobs one would get from fiverr or upwork?

[shadow moss]

Take a look at those two websites and see. It’s probably a lot of web work.

[shadow moss]

Work experience > boot camp > online

But mileage varies greatly

[fallen dew]

Really @crude crown ? Anything in particular that is pushing you away?

[fringe belfry]

Any good boot camp’s

[fallen dew]

I don’t mind repetitive tasks, I’m mostly trying to move away because my current job involves a lot of hounding people over and over again for information and constantly following up lol

[crude crown]

There's way too much BS in data science compared to a more typical SW dev gig.

and I'm just about done with it.

lately I've been automating some accounting related stuff for a relative of ime

*mine

mostly fetching some info and PDF files from a web portal by somewhat reverse engineering the APIs

I really enjoy automating things like this. For this particular one a job that would take about 8 full days of work could be done through a script in 20 minutes or so.

(just thought mentioning this considering that you're in accounting from what I've read).

but yeah, you can't really automate way that hounding people in order to get info from them...

[open garnet]

That sounds pretty cool, would you know of a good tutorial for reading PDFs?

[near ocean]

Speaking of automating

I should write a script to spam the shit out of recruiters in linkedin

Payback time

[crude crown]

@open garnet For now I haven't dealt with reading PDF files, just downloading them. But who knows, I might have a request to deal with reading PDFs.

[open garnet]

Is Python the main language you use for work projects?

[crude crown]

in my dayjob? yeah.

for some years now

But I'm really thinking of getting into Rust though.

[open garnet]

I sometimes I want that, but don't want python to become one of those things I stop using once I get home. I'm in marketing and that kinda happend. I hear about Rust a lot, never really looked into. Are you thinking of the chance for performance or just preference?

[crude crown]

mostly performance

[near ocean]

i dont think rust has a place in marketing

usually marketing makes use of high level languages that can interact with visualisation tools like python does with matplotlib or tableau

[crude crown]

yeah, that seems about right.

[fallen dew]

I gotcha. Yeah, I’ve worked only in accounting but for the past two years in internal audit. It’s a lot of asking people for documents and verifying a lot of minute little stuff, and it’s not always extremely well received on the other end lol

Some times there’s some interesting stuff I come across and some neat little tasks outside of the regular audit stuff, but it’s pretty minimal what I can automate, even if I were better at Python

There are a few things it could help me save some time with, though

[full mauve]

What types of things are you trying to automate. Python is really good for files and parsing websites. .net is great for database and financial processing algorithms.

[fallen dew]

I do more auditing/review work, so most of what I do is taking existing reports and basically offering up an opinion and coming up with recommendations so I don’t think there’s much I can

But I think one of the things I could do is use it to check an internal control/ERP permissions report that can be exported to excel to identify issues across users by looping through the lines and seeing how many/which cells are checked. I’m still pretty new to Python tho, haven’t even used Pandas yet

[inner wren]

Hey @marsh scaffold!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .3gp, .3g2, .avi, .bmp, .gif, .h264, .jpg, .jpeg, .mkv, .mov, .mp4, .mpeg, .mpg, .png, .tiff, .wmv, .svg, .psd, .ai, .aep, .xcf, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .afdesign, .m4a, .csv.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[marsh scaffold]

I'm a Web developer who have 10 years experiences, now I'm finding tasks...

My service :

Website building, maintain, add new features, Server administration

[quasi wasp]

hey the names Kinetic, idk where to introduce myself but i just recently joined this discord! Nice to meet everyone! 🙂

[autumn garnet]

🐏

here take some ram

for ur pc/lap

[olive crater]

Is there a way that for different runs of a python program that uses selenium I keep the browser that I have opened and logged in with my credentials, open and use in later runs?

[gusty steppe]

Hi

[fresh forge]

@olive crater Yes https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47108394/multi-client-remote-debugging-using-chromedriver-and-chrome-devtools-protocol

[delicate sleet]

Can u guys recommend me some free python game engines (im like real newbie i only basic python)

[lilac nexus]

Why is fastapi better than flask?

?

[near ocean]

Citation needed

Also, this isnt really the channel to discuss this, try #python-discussion

[dense hamlet]

Hey people, i need help how to switch to pythone? What is the best path, currently i have 10 years experience in PHP and 2 years in C.
All the best

[obsidian acorn]

@dense hamlet You are in the right place.
if you are using PHP, correct me if I am wrong, but that means you are working on web building.
There are multiple web building framework in python that you can start with. Depending on how bare you like it, you can do either Django or Flask, and there are many more frameworks to try.
These are good starter paths. we also have the DRF for API building as well.
If you want to do straight python without web building, these are also a good way to start, as they will be close to things you already know.
we have some resources that you can check out as well. https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources/
Since you already know C and PHP, learning python should be easier than both of those.

[dense hamlet]

tnx @obsidian acorn i see many good stuff in pythone discord

[obsidian acorn]

np

and if you want to go into the AI, ML route, starting close to home is still the best starting point

Once you get comfortable with the language, which should take you a day or two, then you can start on the ML path

but FYI, the ML path is treacherous, but that will depend on whether you want to use it, and that's it, or truly understand it.

[eternal nymph]

I'd like to start programming in Python, but where should I start??

Thanks already

[digital fjord]

!resources we have a list of learning resources on our website

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[eternal nymph]

Ok thanks

[vapid jay]

How to get into software engineering

[unkempt willow]

Hello Everyone

¯_(ツ)_/¯

what will i work as a python developer

[sharp mirage]

there's none answering 😕

[vapid jay]

Well I mean I’m not too far into python but with all the available packages you can do lots of stuff in different fields. Sounds like it’s more geared to ML and scripting stuff than like desktop apps as I can’t find many well known desktop apps written in python.

There’s libraries for web development, data analysis, among others

Python Programming - The State of Developer Ecosystem in 2020 Infographic | JetBrains: Developer Tools for Professionals and Teams

https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2020/python/

[vapid jay]

so you guys are Pythonista or Pythoneer?

[unkempt willow]

slitherin @vapid jay watch harry potter

[misty lark]

Bruh

Who poinged me

[sharp mirage]

what career is best after Master's in AI?

[serene anvil]

why learn python?

what possible careers?

[valid crown]

i need help finding a webside to practice like simple projectes

[bold wedge]

@vapid jay

[ebon sun]

Need some thoughts if possible - I'm apply for a data analytics job that specifies knowledge of Python, which I have. But, it says I need 1 year of analytics experience, which I don't have. However, the job I'm applying for is for the company I worked for for nearly 10 years, most recently in a customer service supervisor capacity, and I know the systems involved as well as the reporting. Any thoughts on how I can tool my application and resume to increase my odds of being interviewed?

[glossy pecan]

Not sure how you would put this in the resume itself, maybe a cover letter, but I would emphasise that your 10 years of experience in the company give you a lot of understanding into how the business works, and therefore you'll be able to understand the data very easily

Usually you have the opposite problem with data analysts, they get the analysis part but they take a long time to learn the specifics of the business and therefore understand the meaning of the data they work with

[ebon sun]

Very good point! I appreciate your input. 👍 I've reached out to my former manager and asked her if she can find out who is hiring for it so I can contact them on Linkedin, or see if she can put in a good word for me.

[modest karma]

Is learn web development worth it or should I just stick doing what I'm doing

[shadow moss]

pygame is commonly referenced but no one makes games with Python professionally

[vapid jay]

Hey

where can I look for jobs with python for someone who is very entry level

[vapid jay]

;xoxo

;xoxo

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until 2021-01-07 03:01 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

[rough spruce]

[grave ridge]

Hi, i think im a mid level developer with 6 months experience as data scientist in a startup. I have developed bots worked with api, nlp, django, webdcraped , selenium, sql. I need a developer job that pays ok or some gigs .

My startup offers only stock for now but i work there for the XP points

[timid wedge]

Need a life/career advice. I am currently working as a devops guy but the entire stack of devops is written in say for example Java which I don't know. So making changes in the code is quite challenging for me. So, shall I be scared and continue to work because the person with whom/under whom I am working with has the power to terminate me. It's getting really frustrating.

[glossy pecan]

Not sure what your question is, you could always learn Java, though there are a lot of things a devops person can do that don't involve making code changes at all.

The person you're working under will always have the power to terminate you, that's kind of a constant 🙂

[timid wedge]

yes. I am willing to learn java. I just need time. Rather than being pushed into tasks directly.

It's getting frustrating with each and every single day.

[fluid jasper]

Is there anyone interested in game dev with unity

[verbal dirge]

Unity doesn't go with Python, does it?

If it does I am in

[fluid jasper]

no

It uses csharp

c#

[verbal dirge]

Oh

I wish I could join but I don't know c#

[fluid jasper]

python is easy

c# also easy

[verbal dirge]

I started with python 1.5 years ago when I was 16

I am thinking about learning Ruby now

[fluid jasper]

I also know python but after I changed to csharp and unity

Ruby is used to make apps for ios. Isn't it

?

[verbal dirge]

Game dev is definitely interesting, all the best

[fluid jasper]

yeah

Are you from India

[verbal dirge]

Yeah

[verbal dirge]

Yup

And you?

[fluid jasper]

NO

I'm not

[verbal dirge]

Where are you from?

[fluid jasper]

From Turkmenistan

[vapid jay]

.o

[terse wedge]

Is it fun here?

[vapid jay]

Web development, data analysis, machine learning, system administration

Those are the job opportunities with Python

[vapid knoll]

allow me to give you all some feedback from someone who is looking for a dev for a project... i've worked with devs for a long time. a long time. i've seen some truly amazing devs, true geniuses doing incredible work. i sort of got used to working with those people and seeing that level of result. i'm currently looking for a dev for a migation project so i started to check into some of the discord coding career channels, such as here. to get an idea of the current legit job sites and boards, craigslist included. i have been looking every day for a month now, and i've only heard back from one person, and that was on craigslist. and while it seems that english is not their primary language, they covered all the basics for me to even see a few websites they've actually created with challenges they've faced, etc. i've contacted about 200something people on various gig sites, and it seems no one has the decency to even respond. let alone, have a profile and examples of work to review. and it's not just single people i've reached out to, but dev companies that do exactly what i'm looking for. and i work at a legit company that is looking for a legit dev. just from this experience of being in the position of hiring someone, my advice to you is; get yourself in order to respond to all inquiries for your services, and be ready to answer detailed questions about your abilities and weaknesses. because someone like me could be so incredibly frustrated by this lack of professionalism by you, at any level, that my level of acceptance for anything negative by you in the initial meeting and review phase is extremely low. allow me to sum up my currently feelings by words of wisdom from a friend who finally got a job at apple some time ago; "good enough, shouldn't be. from there the fall into obscurity is a short one."

[vapid jay]

Wow

[fallen dew]

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020

Interesting read

[near ocean]

The highest paying is managing devs not being one

You get management positions in every industry, but you dont just start in them

It could help down the line yea

[shadow moss]

Are you American?

Are you at Ivy League?

Then nothing will matter

Are you taking out student loans?

If so, your only concern should be graduating with least amount of debt

If minor or specialization would result in ton more debt. I’d strongly recommend you reconsider it.

Once you get experience, degree type won’t really matter

I had coworker with MBA. :no one cared:

No you don’t in many places

[near ocean]

Not as a cs major i dont think

[shadow moss]

Not as none Ivy League graduate.

[near ocean]

Who in their right kinds would put a graduate/junior as a team leader or manager

[shadow moss]

Sure if you have MBA from Harvard, this discussion is different

[near ocean]

mba is postgrad tho, thats kinda different

Most people dont get an mba unless they want to transition to a management role, usually the company sponsors your studies

Or thats what you want to happen, ideally

Idk why people go and get mbas tbh, back home theyre kind of a laughing stock

Dumpster degree

For rich brats with dying parents and a fortune to inherit

Surely theres better ways to transition to a managerial position

Yea exactly, and you get paid to get it too

Company sponsors you

Cause obviously theyre not a dev with 10years experience

No point in getting a business degree imho, but IANAL

Yea, commenting on this part

[rich heart]

hey

i am very spanish

i am literally spanish

[vapid jay]

so bscly i want to decide what major i should take and i just cant find a winner between econ and computer science. i love computer science and coding, i am just not thrilled with the jobs... any ideas

[fallen dew]

Yea MBA seems like mostly a cash grab to me

I guess if you work as a manager in some time of trade, it might be useful to show that you at least went to business school or something. I’m not sure it adds enough value for what it costs/the work to get it

[vapid jay]

ye thats what i though but i dont know which one to major in

[thorny drum]

I'm not but that was what I wanted to do until I did some research and realized I didn't like it.

[vapid jay]

what jobs can i get if i monor cs?

well i like that for sure

[marsh wind]

While that's important usually your starting pay matters less than you think. What will matter much more is XP you get after and how will you average that first job, XP and pay to get next offer much better

[ebon sun]

Management also implies that you're going to be managing people. Not often does one manage people directly out of college.

Though there are exceptions. It's just a hard transition, and it's weird for those being managed to be managed by someone younger than them.

[hushed jungle]

Which has a lower barrier to entry between software engineering and data science?

[ruby cliff]

I'd say slightly software engineering

[distant glacier]

Computer science degree is worth it right? Seems so

Thinking of CS as second choice if I cant become a mechanical engineer

[vapid knoll]

i thought i'd document more of my experience, looking for a django/python dev or dev co. i've removed details so i think this is ok to post here. https://i.imgur.com/p7pWySZ.png

[distant glacier]

Huh

[ruby cliff]

@distant glacier That's a hard answer to give because it is subjective. What is worth it to one might not be to another. I'd suggest researching where it can take you and deciding if that's the right path for you.

[vapid knoll]

i found this person on craigslist and responded, so there's an initial exchange i didn't include here fyi. as i use gmail, because our current dev has bailed on us, i don't have a corp email address to use. they asked for my non cl email and i opliged and went into some of what i need.

[distant glacier]

My shallow knowledge consists of computer science = mm programmer job

[ruby cliff]

a Comp sci degree can lead you in various directions; which include but are not limited to things such as: Sys analyst, data science, software dev/engineer, you could teach, AI engineer. The list goes on.

It is a very broad degree, you don't need to know the path you want to go in off the bat but researching and getting an idea of where you'd like to go would be wise.

[distant glacier]

I should rephrase, where would a comp science degree put you immediately after college with no experience or achievements if answerable

Btw thank you for answering my questions 😅

[ruby cliff]

Again, if anyone wants to correct me on this please feel free, that would really depend on you as a person and the work you put in. I know people that have come out of college getting great job offers at companies like HP(where they interned) and I know people that can't find a job because they lack knowledge whether it be coding or above.

[distant glacier]

Ah ok thank you

[ruby cliff]

Regardless, if you're doing comp sci to code, it's something you're going to have to work on. It's creative, I'd suggest really hitting it hard so you can get into internships, having your own side projects to show, etc.

[vapid knoll]

and initially, he supplied his rate and said he'd work on retainer. so really my only thing i can go by here is that, he took offense to my supposing how long an initial migration would take, ie, backing up the server, rolling that backup into a new host, shoring things up and turning it live. this devs website is good looking and they have good profile info to review, but in this initial phase, they picked up the wrong intention or whatever and decided to bail immediately iso clarifying what we were looking for. their initial response of them requiring a retainer and $125/hr should have tipped me off, but i've dealt with devs like this before. they must have sensed we weren't going to be a cash cow and they dropped out before even wanting to hear that we're exploring a mobile version, and an ecommerce option. also, my name isn't tim.

[slate imp]

I have a question where would 3 years of python lead me to without college

[ruby cliff]

That really depends on how well you understand the language. Python is definitely a popular language that can earn you a spot at various companies, however, pinpointing where it will lead you initially is going to come down to how well you understand it. Some companies have pretty comprehensive questions or code tests.

[distant glacier]

Coding is learning so in those code tests is the internet usable or is it all from memory and your raw capability

Assuming raw capability

[ruby cliff]

I can't speak on everyone, I don't know their vetting process or what it is they are exactly looking at. I'm sure some will let you use the internet, as it's pretty common on the job anyways, but depending on the test, they might be gauging your current knowledge as well as your problem solving skills.

If you have ever heard of the fizz buzz test, I'd say it fits the description of testing your problem solving skills as well as your general basic knowledge.

[distant glacier]

Thank you

[mossy juniper]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone had any advice for an aspiring IoT engineer with a future degree in electrical engineering and an emphasis on computer system design.

My main problem is that IoT is such a large field and I've learned a lot of different languages and softwares that I don't really know what to focus on. I figured that python would be a good choice. However, how should I progress my python skills? I know how to do some data analytics with python at the moment, but was wondering how to progress from there.

[peak halo]

there's micropython if you wanted to embed Python on your IoT devices. I think. We (ie people other than me) talk about that in #microcontrollers.

You can make APIs for your IoT devices in Python.

well, you can make python APIs for them. I don't know how one makes an API for something that isn't already Python

[mossy juniper]

I see. I didn't mention it, but I have used microcontrollers a decent amount in my some of my classes already. I think it would be interesting to go further in depth with microcontrollers

For example, I think building a home automation system would be super cool as well as super rewarding in regards to the learning

[peak halo]

I'm more on the data science side of things

[mossy juniper]

I kind of want a big project that will force me to learn a lot.

nice, I'm actually taking another data science class as well. I think the data science stuff is cool, but I'm not sure I would personally delve super deep

[peak halo]

unless you wanted to integrate AI into your IoT ecosystem, you don't necessarily need to stretch yourself so thin. Python supports a lot of use cases and no one is expected to master it all.

[mossy juniper]

yeah, I agree. Like I mentioned earlier, I want to progress my python skills so I can more options went I graduate. But because the language is so broad, I don't know how to progress my skills and in which areas

[peak halo]

well, my uninformed opinion is to make a Python API for an IoT device of yours. I have no idea how difficult that is or what it entails.

[grizzled folio]

Hi , guys any advice on coding bootcamp for full stack web developer? Is it worth the time and money ?

[torn herald]

Depends on the bootcamp and how much you put into it. There are bootcamps like app academy and hack reactor that are some of the highest rated in the world. App Academy guarantees a job within a year after taking the course if you hit certain metrics. So, if you don't have the 25-28k cash upfront, you don't have to pay until you get a job. They take a percentage of your salary until you have paid for it. These two bootcamps are notorious for running from 9am - 6pm, but to really finish the work and get everything done people are working to 11-12pm every single night for 3 months. They are extremely intense.

If you are willing to put that much time into it you will get a lot out of it

I personnly attended LeWagon in Bali, it was a RoR bootcamp. It was their second cohort - everything about the setup was excellent, the teacher was excellent. However, the material that was first covered started basic, from the beginning, even though they said to put as much time as humanly possible into the course before starting it. I spent 9 days studying all day before the course, but most people didn't put an hour in. Therefore, I did 75% of all the work in all the group projects. The course was only 2 months and it only cost 6k.

I would recommend attending a course that costs more, if you end up doing a bootcamp. You will get significantly more serious people in them

[peak halo]

Some members of our server who hire developers have told me that they don't take online programming certifications that seriously. But it might be worthwhile as a learning experience.

[shadow moss]

Bootcamp is slightly better. The benefit of school isn't what you learn but proving you can do simple shit like show up and complete crap tasks. Because alot of development isn't solving awesome problems but get these 10 features on the website and get it done by tomorrow. Also, good luck dodging all that technical debt

[peak halo]

that's a pretty skeptical outlook but having been in college for I don't want to say how many years, I can see how you got there.

[shadow moss]

The part about hiring that even I hate having been on both sides is how hard it's to filter people

and how people get tossed for random stuff

but I have Stel on one hand and Joe on another, which one do I choose?

[peak halo]

me

pls

[shadow moss]

I've had maybe an hour with them and I'm going to spending 40 hours a week with them for a while

I do hate hiring, it's sucks from someone who assists in hiring

and then we hire someone who is like 😄 "How do I RDP into my workstation?" 🐰 "oh, your hostname is workstation.subdomain.domain.com" 😄 "No, how do I use RDP?" 🐰 "Do you have Mac/Windows?" 😄 "How do I tell?" 🐰 " sighhhhhhhhhhhhh"

And truth bomb, Generally College grads work out better, non college grads can work out just as well, it's just more diamonds in rough. (I'm non college grad)

[peak halo]

might be in part because college grads typically have had economic stability and adequate education for their entire lives.

and I say that as someone who has pretty much had that.

[shadow moss]

Sure, but that's drifting into political problems/solutions

[peak halo]

Fair enough.

[shadow moss]

I don't mine discussing it, just not here

[peak halo]

You're right that politics is off-topic for this channel.

[glossy pecan]

Interesting, I was asked to speak at LeWagon and they tried very hard to make themselves seem like a premium bootcamp

[rotund fog]

is automate the boring stuff with python a good course?

[fallen dew]

Imo yes, it doesn’t teach everything, but it does walk you through the very basic stuff, plus some more advanced stuff like RegEx, and utilizes several libraries. I’d supplement it with other material too, but it’s a nice place to start imo. Might be a good question for the general channel if you want to know more. @rotund fog

[rotund fog]

Thank you very much, im in the place rn where i want to do python stuff like projects but i do not have an idea for anything :/ @fallen dew

[fallen dew]

I think ATBSWP will give you some good ideas. Even as you learn more you’ll come up with your own ideas. The practice projects at the end of chapters will probably help, too

[stark magnet]

Hey

Bye

[young obsidian]

Hey guys

is Django easy to use when it comes to updating and retrieving data from a data warehouse/SQL server

i have 2 options : Django or Pyqt5, i will be developing a software that has a backend, and i will have to retrieve data from a server. what do you guys think i should go for?

[steel coyote]

guys, say I want to become a data scientist but would also like for the chance to expand (like perhaps trying to get a software engineer job at some point to see if I like it more)
In that case, is it worth it to go for a bachelor in data science? (as my first and possibly only major)

[torn herald]

They are a good bootcamp, I just think it was the location. It attracted young people who didn't actually have much ambition to become software engineers. It was more of an excuse for the kids to hang out in Bali for two months

[neon moat]

@young obsidian django is a full blown web framework, there is no need to use django if you just want an ORM library to query a database

[ruby cliff]

@steel coyote I'd definitely do some research. Unless this has changed, Data science is definitely still a field that holds education to a high standard, we have to acknowledge that as time goes on the educational barrier to entry is only growing, I know a few companies are pushing their employees to get masters in data science but that doesn't mean that it is needed. Is it possible to get a CS degree and work in Data science? Yes. Is it possible to get a Data science degree and still become a developer? Yes. The fact remains, there are plenty of developers that have no formal education at all and data science still requires you to have knowledge of coding, how good that knowledge is really comes down to you and your work ethic.

[vast torrent]

Are there any Python based jobs in areospace?

[twilit heart]

subscribe to blueviper and watch his live stream now\

[bright grotto]

Hey, I currently don't know what to do with my job career. I did my apprenticeship of three years and two additional years at my work as an ABAP (SAP-Programming Language, used COBALT as an template and is realy annoying) developer. The language is dull and my projects are kinda repeating, creating little programs which shows different database entries as an table an then maybe some extra features. So I would like to change my job to another type of developer, like python, angular or probably any decent and modern programming language. The thing is that I don't have visited an university, instead I had the apprenticeship (Which is in germany the practical way to begin a job, alternative to uni), so I'm feel like an idiot because I'm missing the overall knowledge you get from uni. Other than that I feel like an absolute beginner in normal languages because I haven't got any work-expierence in it. ABAP development can't be compared to the more known languages.

My problem is that I don't know if I could ever get an job in a different field, without having good experience in it and this is making me crazy. I don't even know what kind of response I'm hoping here.

[summer roost]

I'm not very familiar with Germany, but general advice: learn a language that seems interesting to you on your own, build some projects in it that do something non-trivial (even if it's stupid or been done a million times before, or something - build an HTTP server, or your own chess program, or something), and show off both your actual work experience on your CV, as well as what you've been teaching yourself with a portfolio. Expect an entry level position, if it's in an area you've never worked in at all. But with the combination of some proof that you can work in a corporate environment, plus some proof that you're able to learn and apply new things, you can probably land a new job. Software development is in very high demand.

if you'd be interested in web development, making your own site and hosting it on your own domain would be helpful

[bright grotto]

Thanks for the response, @summer roost
in my private I did create some python application on a very basic level and currently I do an udemy course in angular. The problem I'm having with own projects is that I have no ideas for big projects. I was thinking about creating a portfolio of myself in angular, but I think I would need to learn more about best-practice css. Maybe I'm just to lazy or don't know what kind of language/framework I wanna work with.

With angular and python I created a little webpage which shows me my current humidity in my room, through the api of my dehumidifier. It wasn't shown as a graph (which I didn't write myself though). This took a day, but that wasn't realy a big thing at all. The angular and python code was very small

[summer roost]

I've never hired for a web dev job, but keep at it - doesn't matter if it's not super impressive stuff, just having a catalog that shows anything nontrivial that you've done, and that you were able to stick with it for a while and it wasn't just a passing whim, is helpful.

and as far as missing Computer Science background, there's courses online that you can take. The most useful thing that you would have missed from not going to college is a Data Structures and Algorithms course. In my experience that's the one thing that everyone wants junior developers to know - that's something that you should be able to find online for free.

not that there aren't other important classes, too, but that's the single most important one for getting hired in my experience

[ruby cliff]

If you're having some issues thinking of projects you could do on your own @bright grotto You could always poke around and partake in some open source projects on github, something to just keep you sharp and keep you moving forward instead of sitting in neutral.

[neat grove]

@vapid jay Hello, please don't dump the same message in multiple channels. It's also not on-topic for this channel

[wicked turtle]

How do you handle working jn a team on a single feature?

Like how do you manage to not somehow override each others things and have other people's "progress"

[true turtle]

you use something like git, I suppose?

you could break the functionality into smaller components and assign them to each person

i dunno, let's wait for someone with experience to reply

[soft orbit]

Hello guys, I want to know is it worth to learn odoo. In my city/state for Python job odoo is more popular(have more jobs) than Django. But I dunno how this is for other areas or other countries.
So do you know some tools that can show odoo jobs at XYZ places etc Or you know that Django is more popular than odoo in other areas or something

[delicate bane]

is it true that data science field and/or machine learning is saturated right now?

should i try to get into cloud computing instead?

[lilac lantern]

I also have same question right now

[digital fjord]

!mute @jagged pelican 1d keep our code of conduct in mind

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @jagged pelican until 2021-01-10 17:10 (23 hours and 59 minutes).

[bright grotto]

@summer roost Thanks for your input, you were very helpful. Need to think about that all and probably should start getting more projects done

@ruby cliff joining other projects seems to be even more advanced, I doubt that I could do that

[wise oriole]

fd

[rose sparrow]

Hey,
I am a junior developer that graduated from a bootcamp in late october. I have been applying to jobs regularly and I have been having a tough time getting offers...I have had interviews for about 20 companies, but 0 have given me offers. I wanted to know the job hunting experience of anyother people that have graduated a bootcamp and found a job without any pervious IT experience, and how long/difficult it was to find your first position. Should it be this difficult, or am I an isolated case? How can i do things differently to get better traction in my job search?

Any tips/help/experiences are apprecicated,
thanks!

[rose sparrow]

thanks!

[crude crown]

Yes, it is.

[delicate bane]

should i switch my concentration to biomedical engineering or autonomous systems instead? or continue down machine learning but focus on cloud computing?

[ionic galleon]

We both I'm senior getting international experience, solution:join in freelancer platforms like upwork,fiverr, crossover,toptal

[rose sparrow]

Thank you 5ant0s! I will check them out

[outer junco]

do you guys have any ideas on how a 15 year old can freelance in ML/DL/DS

[golden tundra]

I frankly think you’d have a hard time proving your competence as a freelancer at 15

Particularly in fields like machine learning and data science - they tend to want advanced education, past a bachelor’s

[keen seal]

I'm narrowing my choices from either majoring in Computer Engineering or in Computer Science

I find the topic of Computers to be fascinating from both the hardware and (somewhat) the software side. I also enjoy learning math and coding

[ruby cliff]

If you find the software side to only be "somewhat" fascinating but the hardware side to be fascinating. What exactly is the debate?

@keen seal

[keen seal]

What I'm trying to get at is if I should pursue those majors based on the interests I said

From what I heard, CS focuses both on the software and hardware

and CE mainly focuses on the hardware

[ruby cliff]

I'd pick one and just start. The nice thing about college is that you don't have to know off the bat. You have a general idea of what you like, that is good, however, both of these degrees curriculum have substantial overlap and share a ton of the same course work.

One sec, let me show you something

[keen seal]

Oh?

[ruby cliff]

This is UCLA's CE program

You can see that it is a fine mixture of both CE and CS classes

[keen seal]

Interesting

I'm sure that they lean on one side over the other, right?

even if they share the same courses

[ruby cliff]

you are correct, there are a lot more CS classes

CE definitely has more electrical and CE engineering classes

however, the point I"m trying to get across is

If you know what you're into, start with it, switching to the other is not even a worry in your mind(at least it shouldn't be) because of how intertwined these two degrees are.

You'll still go into high math, and you're going to learn to code in both

[keen seal]

Yeah true. My main major was going to be Physics but I later decided to switch it to something computer related

because it can be flexible with anything

whether if its science related (gathering data, making graphs, etc or Art related (Animation, web design, etc)

[ruby cliff]

Yeah, the nice thing is that you can sit in on some classes to see what sparks your interest, however, if you're confident it is definitely computer related, pick one, run it and who knows, maybe when you hit algorithms or something you get super into software.

Some colleges also let you emphasis(which must be nice), I know people that have graduated with CS degrees with an emphasis on IOS app development and stuff like that.

The options are really endless, chances are, you're not going to know what you want to do at the beginning; or if you think you do, it could very likely change over the course of the next few years. These degrees give you the ability to be flexible like that. They are not a ticket to a 1 way street, it's more like a ticket to an intersection that leads to more intersections.

[summer roost]

I agree completely - if you find the hardware side more interesting, start with Computer Engineering. If after taking a few different classes, you find you're more interested in the software side than the hardware side, switch majors. It's really not hard to do as long as you do it within the first 2 years, in my experience.

[pastel lark]

i'm new to computer science major and worry about the career future will be taken away by AI

should i pick it ?

[summer roost]

It will not.

[pastel lark]

ok thanks, i just want to make sure it's safety career

because i read some news about AI and it even can write a little bit of code right now

i dont know what it could do in next 10 years

[summer roost]

I literally can't imagine a future where AI replaces humans writing code within the next 50 years.

AI isn't anywhere near advanced enough for that.

for reasons that are really hard to explain to someone without the technical background.

https://xkcd.com/1425/ makes a joke about this

[pastel lark]

ok cool let me check it

[summer roost]

yes, AI seems advanced, and seems like it should be able to replace people at their jobs - but it needs a team of programmers training it to do even the most incredibly mundane things. We're all excited about the idea that AI is almost able to drive a car, which is impressive because that's a moderately complicated task, but a) driving a car is such a simple task that almost every adult is expected to learn how to do it, and b) there's a team of professional software developers who are trying to support it and teach it how to do this task and make fewer mistakes, and c) it keeps crashing and killing people anyway.

we're a long, long way away from the sort of general purpose AI that would allow you to describe a problem to it in plain English and have it solve that problem for you. Every 5 years or so someone says we're only 20 years away - since around the 1970s.

[pastel lark]

wow

so web and mobile dev will be obsoleted ?

like in near future

[summer roost]

I didn't say that at all.

I don't think AI is going to replace human programmers in my lifetime.

[pastel lark]

cus wix or some tools can help person build a layout of website without knowledge

[summer roost]

sure - but tools like that have literally existed for as long as the web, and there are still web developers.

[pastel lark]

maybe some new web technology is coming out and those tools are obsoleted

[summer roost]

it's not that there aren't tools that non-experts can use, it's that there's no path for non-experts to do things beyond what those tools provide without becoming experts. And those tools necessarily have limitations - and teams of developers supporting them.

[pastel lark]

got it

[summer roost]

just because it's becoming easier for non-experts to make their computers do things doesn't mean we're anywhere near no longer needing experts, it just changes the types of jobs that the experts are needed for.

less time on silly cookiecutter stuff, more time on more interesting problems.

[pastel lark]

ah got it!

some people said that software engineer would be the last job be replaced by AI , is that true ?

[summer roost]

sounds right. Someone has to keep making the new AIs, after all.

we're getting moderately good at getting AIs to solve problems that involve no creativity whatsoever. But software development, at a very basic level, requires lots of creativity.

[pastel lark]

i have an idea that programmer cant be replaced by AI because when new technology is coming, we need a team to train it and a team to solving problem with new technology while AI team training it because i think training AI with new technology with take time

[summer roost]

All I can say is, trust someone who works in the industry: AI looks much more advanced to people without any programming experience than it actually is.

we're nowhere close to replacing people who are paid to think about solutions to problems with AI.

[pastel lark]

yeah i'm new so it makes me overthinking

maybe that's why

[ruby cliff]

You're definitely over thinking. You should think of it as a really cool potential career path. It is definitely going to advance and grow.

[pastel lark]

ok cool thank you @ruby cliff

[cold brook]

Hey guys! I heard that Python is the most common language used in data science? Is this true?

And also, if it is true, if you wanna get into data science, Ik you need to know a lot about math and statistics, but coding-wise, do you need to know any other language besides Python?

And finally, is a degree in Computer Science beneficial to becoming a data scientist?

Thanks in advance!

[graceful mason]

@cold brook
Python has the most libraries for data science, so is probably the most popular
Data science basically is statistics, and you need certain types of math (statistics, calculus, linear algebra mostly)
There are computer science with AI degrees, and data science degrees (at least in the UK) that would definitely be beneficial

[olive pebble]

Can you please name some of the universities that teaches CS that mostly focuses on AI? I am currently searching for universities that allows online classes with their curriculum mainly focused on AI.

[fallen dew]

https://youtu.be/ZGeLAqGkObw

@cold brook watch this. Will probably answer some of your questions. R might be more common depending on industry or geographical location, idk. But both R and Python are used for it

I enjoyed this video a lot, good insight

[haughty gyro]

am I too late for learning python.

Dont tell me this is a language of past now

[near ocean]

No

Python isnt going anywhere

[haughty gyro]

Ohkay. I am just starting out.

Thanks

[little trellis]

IMO learn SQL as much as Python if you're looking to break into Data Science. You'll be a lot more useful overall.

[radiant moon]

I'd have thought data scientists were doing the NoSQL thing these days

[vapid jay]

Would learning OOP enhance my chances of getting some kind of job in python development?

and how would I get job in such circumstances, any tips

[shadow moss]

Not always, distributed SQL interface databases, so hot right now

[inner wren]

Hey @earnest edge!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.vbs). We currently allow the following file types: .3gp, .3g2, .avi, .bmp, .gif, .h264, .jpg, .jpeg, .mkv, .mov, .mp4, .mpeg, .mpg, .png, .tiff, .wmv, .svg, .psd, .ai, .aep, .xcf, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .afdesign, .m4a, .csv.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[stone nimbus]

how many programming languages should you know to apply for a coding interview/job?

[keen seal]

Python probably won't go anywhere because it's main purpose was to make code easier to read. Funny enough, when Python was released back in the 90s, it was considered too advance for those computers to use. However, as technology improved drastically over time, more and more developers started to use Python.

So unless another language pops up that makes it even more easy to code than Python, I doubt it would go away.

[ruby cliff]

It's more so going to come down to how well do you know the code as opposed to how many do you know at a sub par level. I'd do some research into what code the company you're applying to uses and apply for the ones that use the code you know well so that you can pass a comprehensive code test.

[slate imp]

On what python path should I focus which path is more in demand and searched for is it data science, ai or something else?

[marsh wind]

While nosql is kinda hot, sql ain't going anywhere

And I think whoever you are, dev or data science person you would prefer RDMS when possible.

[radiant moon]

really? I was under the impression that most RDMS had trouble with really big scale, and that's more or less why NoSQL was created in the first place

[shadow moss]

offby1, they do but many of them provide SQL like interfaces, Scylla is what Discord uses for their storage

[dry sapphire]

it depends on which kind of scaling and NoSQL DB you mean

also, sometimes it's more about different access patterns and data

[lyric vortex]

Hj anyone

[novel crag]

None really, you should firstly find out what you're passionate about when it comes to computing and then do that.

personally, I'm tired of working with data scientists that don't actually like computing/coding, I don't want there to be more out there.

[late sundial]

Hello everyone) Can I post here about looking for two fullstack django seniors in Moscow?) pm pls

[marsh wind]

no, it's not for recruitemnt

[late sundial]

Is there a right room?

[marsh wind]

no, this server has no place for recruitmeent

[marsh wind]

like gm said, the accesss patternt part is important.
but then even if talk scaling, with smart design postgres can scale quite well. I think no sql was created to scale but also to store data that is not structured/normalized. I.e. our company is creating some kinds of generic ML/AI solution (that will be proposed as SaaS to other compaines and etc) to facilitate the process. And when picking up which DBs we should communicate with first of all it ended up being Oracle, postgres, mysql, sql server. And only later in pipeline they have mongo

[dry sapphire]

yeah denormalising is a big thing

if your data is such that you require a ton of joins to retrieve it it may make more sense to just store it in denormalised format

which of course comes with its own problems, but it's a tradeoff you decide to make

and SQL was not designed with denormalisation in mind

also there's unstructured data which you might want to process in certain ways that SQL isn't built to handle

e.g. document indexing with, say, Elasticsearch

in general NoSQL gives up ACID for something else that you want

another example is Cassandra (very popularly used for chat systems, in particular)

because of its mad write performance + partitioning methods

[marsh wind]

Yeah but it still works. And I see it quite a lot among best practices for sql that you first normalize and then look and possible de normalize to improve performance

[dry sapphire]

I know Postgres can have read scaling with replicas and write scaling with partitioning, but TBH I don't have experience in that (just stuff I read)

[dry sapphire]

yeah. I think problems come when one starts with SQL without understanding the basics of the relational model

so you try to force concepts from your background (most commonly object-oriented)

which leads to frustration + inefficiency

[marsh wind]

Yeah but Cassandra requires a very smart architecture. Otherwise it can end up huge pain (like it's for my colleagues)

[dry sapphire]

oh wait this is #career-advice my bad

I thought it was #databases

I am off topic

[dry sapphire]

yeah defo heard that and with CQL kinda looking like SQL there's this temptation to treat Cassandra like SQL which leads to death

[marsh wind]

Let's go to #db

[tight vector]

Last week i got my first response after applying for dev job

I had to do 2 programs and send them i GitHub repos

I didn't wrote tests (I have no clue how to write tests CRUD functions for SQLite) aaaaand i didn't got it

😄

[grim crow]

Hi guys, I'm Android developer and intermediate python dev. I'm thinking of changing the career from Java Android Development to Full Stack Web DEV using python django, react js. So where should I start?

[tight vector]

Bu at least go feedback which is nice.

[grim crow]

same I had an interview and with the same questions? Where are u from?

[tight vector]

could you elaborate 'same I had an interview and with the same questions?', I'm from Poland

[grim crow]

I had an interview with the same questions and properties I had to do. did you apply at ikub?

[tight vector]

no

I had to write CLI application for 'ToDo List'

with persistent type of storage of my choice

[grim crow]

ohhh i see

I had a java spring full stack using crud

with mysql

buuuuuuut i didn't get it

https://github.com/rexhinokovaci/SpringSaver

if you're familiar with java you can check it yourself

[tight vector]

my middle school forced java down my throat and I develop hate for this language

[grim crow]

how old are you? doing a todo list for an interview means that you're a junior

[tight vector]

yes

27

[grim crow]

oh cool

what have you studied for?

[tight vector]

i'm late to the party, i started to learn programming in 2020 in scope broader than just 20 min tutorial of hello world

[gusty void]

hi im looking for a bot dev, someone experienced w python or java, paying for the job as well dm if interested

[tight vector]

@gusty void this is not recruitment channel

[grim crow]

great, i'm pretty sure you'll love this mapping and python is great to work with smart choice

[tight vector]

this is my application

https://github.com/Niviral/Task-CLI

i did't refactor it yet to include feed back as i have 3 exams this week 😦

[cold brook]

I can't decide whether I wanna be a software engineer or a data scientist.

I'm still in high school, so I have some time.

But yeah.

[grim crow]

that's a nice project

you must stick with it i see that you're really good

gg

[golden tundra]

So you’re looking to be a product owner or something of the like?

[fleet marten]

can't do that, I don't knwo the dev cycle near enough

Almost a liason between departments

as I can understand the limitations of code

and explain to a manager they can't have this report because

and also bring the reports the managers can barely explain to devs

and make sure they do their magic to make the pretty colors appear on the screen

[golden tundra]

It sounds to me like you want to be a product owner or scrum master
I think if you want to be a liaison for devs, you need at least a basic understanding of the dev cycle no matter what.

[fleet marten]

That's huge, so I'll focus my learning on git

as that's one I don't do nearly enough

just always start a repo and learn all of it

[golden tundra]

Wait what

You’re trying to learn random repos?

I don’t think that’s going to be enormously productive for you

[fleet marten]

no no no

I mean make repos every itme I make a misc script

[golden tundra]

Uh
I don’t think you need a repo for every script

[fleet marten]

instead of just a random file, or worse, another line in test.py

and comment out the lat set of lines

[golden tundra]

Hang on
I really don’t get what you’re trying to be

[fleet marten]

Well, Idon't use git, so I think I should probably start using it a bit more consistently

[golden tundra]

Are you trying to become a developer or someone who interfaces with developers to keep them on track and give them their requirements and such?

[fleet marten]

I think ideally interfacing, but would that not require an intimate knowledge of theri process?

not the most advanced concepts of the languages they use

not even all the languages they use

but hteir workflows?

so I can 'drop in' without hassle?

so to speak

maybe I'm overthinking it

in which case, the reason for me being here, and I do sincerely appreciate the guidance

[golden tundra]

Not to the extent you’re thinking, I think
Like, on my team, my PO gives us requirements and explains what the stakeholders want. We ask her any questions about features as they come up (like do you want an error thrown in this case)

[fleet marten]

I would love to be a dev at some point, but I think working as a cog in the machine my people skills are more valuable

My last job I was collecting requirements from stakeholders, and holding the contractor on schedule

makign sure we got ti done

I don't knwo how to admin salesforce

but I made sure the delivered org was good, but fukc salfesforce

[golden tundra]

The scrum master monitors our progress, makes sure we get stuff marked complete and such as we work, and goes to bat for us against the business people asking us stuff like “why isn’t this done, why did this take longer than anticipated.”

[fleet marten]

That sounds good, we did sprints

I guess scrum is the style of the semi-decade?

agile is the buzzword

I remember that one

8am calls 3x a week, 12pm twice, 2pm 4x, how did we ever get work done?

[golden tundra]

Our PO needs a basic working knowledge of CS (like what a string is vs what a boolean is, the progression of a call from the front end to the back end, the kind of info we store in dbs), and it’s helpful for her to know some deeper concepts in case we need to explain to her why something would be more complicated or something, but from my perspective on the dev team, she certainly doesn’t need to know intimate details

From what I can see, she goes to meetings a lot to get more knowledge for us and find out more about business requirements. Another PO I had participated in design decisions and presenting our work/concepts, but again, she certainly didn’t need to know deep details
Of course, things work differently in different places, but I do think you’re overthinking the level of CS knowledge required to be a PO or something of the like

Like, I don’t think a PO needs to know how to use git. Actually, one of the devs on my team barely knows how to use git. Which is . . . quite annoying

We spent an hour today untangling code because he didn’t fcking merge a pull request and instead just tried to dupe the changes and push himself

also, what do you mean by “drop in”? I really don’t think interfacing involves just casually dropping in, that would probably make a dev team feel like they’re getting pop quizzes all the time and need to be on guard

My PO mostly just tells us stuff at specific meetings and then we ping her for additional questions

Scrum master drops in at stand up sporadically, but we’re apparently her most self sufficient team, so she mostly leaves us alone

[fleet marten]

I guess I really need to learn corporate structure more, though PO sounds about right

[little trellis]

Any here have experience/thoughts on starting to consult?

[rustic forum]

I work for google right now and I would have to say it has changed my life

[foggy tinsel]

What Lang you known

[rustic forum]

Google has given me the the oppurtunity to be able to make a family and create so many things and take my talent to a whole different level!

[foggy tinsel]

Nice

[rustic forum]

Just a note to anybody out there who wants to be something go and get it I have had the chance to work for apple too but anything you want you can have it if you work for it!

[rustic forum]

I'm sorry for not answering I know a lot of different languages!

[trim swift]

Sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but is anyone else having a tough time finding a remote job in Python? It's kind of demoralizing

[dry sapphire]

what skills do you have

[summer roost]

entry level? senior?

[trim swift]

Somewhere between junior to intermediate, but mainly python, django, SQL, a lot of ETL and bash scripting

HTML, CSS, Javascript except that wasn't the main focus of my last job

Docker, Cloudera

I've been looking for backend development since that is the closest to what I was doing

i would say that if anything i'm intermediate, have 3 years of experience

[foggy tinsel]

Not a problem

[foggy tinsel]

Awesome bro . In 3 years you learnt so much

[trim swift]

Thank you man, I would say there is still a lot for me to learn. I wouldn't call myself the best at any one language but i know enough to start working somewhere else. 😂 This pandemic really was a slap in the face for that kind of thing

[foggy tinsel]

Yeah you are right

[trim swift]

I had to relocate from where I was to my home town for that reason, I enjoyed the work I was doing and the people I was working with, but the pandemic really changed everything for me

[foggy tinsel]

Iam in the starting stage now . Learnt some basic python and now in CS50

[foggy tinsel]

Maybe pandemic is a good thing for some reason

[trim swift]

I've always wanted to move back to where I grew up but it mainly sucks because it has destroyed so many peoples lives, and in my case it has made it slightly harder to find opportunities

[foggy tinsel]

You are a tough guy

[shadow mist]

Are there any quants in here willing to give advise to aspiring ones?

[delicate bane]

idk what to say except ill probably be like you when i finish my program

getting a masters in AI and machine learning

maybe if i do a thesis in cloud computing, i could get ahead..

[trim swift]

i think you're gonna be fine, most of the data science job postings I've seen are looking for people with advanced degrees (masters/ph.d)
I only have a Bachelor's except I graduated with a psychology degree, I minored in Computer Science lmao

[delicate bane]

i have a degree in biochem and sociology so theres that

also its really easy to get into a masters program if youre interested

i didnt even have to take the gre bc of covid

but i should start looking for internships

[trim swift]

I don't have any interest in going back to school personally, it's super expensive to continue my education. The only way I see myself going is if a company I work for is going to pay for it themselves without me needing to take a loan or anything like that

Or if it's really required for me, but for the most part it's not

[delicate bane]

understandable

i guess im just gonna keep being scammed for a bit longer

[sharp mirage]

guys i am also planning my master's in AI and datascience what jobs i can get with that?

[rugged ferry]

||14 year ol’ me lurking in this channel||

[cursive oasis]

what can i do after learning pyhton

python*

to make money

i don't want to be an employee of any company

i just provide serveice on my own

and earn on my own as much as i work

[gleaming cedar]

@cursive oasis freelance?

[fallen dew]

Working for a company and working at your own pace is not really a thing

[glacial valley]

theres a million possibilities with that. You can go into product management. you can go into gameplay. that should be a very fortuitous degree

[grim crow]

are u serious? what department are u working for?

[true harness]

check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[tight vector]

Sorry, wrong channel.

[sharp mirage]

wow

for master's in AI?

[grim crow]

don't think so fizz buzz is quite easy in python, maybe any fibonnaci or euler

[shadow moss]

Yes

Esp when we screw with numbers

Like 5/8

Or go out to 1000

Plus you can tell stuff about people just the way they write code

[mild zenith]

!tempmute 780686554238681090 1d Investigating

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @turbid owl until 2021-01-13 20:19 (23 hours and 59 minutes).

[vapid jay]

thats not 1 day

thats 23 hours 59 minutes

[craggy wave]

The programming assignment we have is a fairly simple set of functions that you have to write a couple of tests for. We ask the applicants to code it in an industry standard way just to get an idea of how they then design the project and give them a day or two to complete it.

You get a lot variation, ranging from who just give you two files to people who've deployed documentation, wrote CI/CD, used git, and so on

[grim crow]

are you currently working as a py dev?

[craggy wave]

yes

[grim crow]

Yeah I had the same conditions in one my last interviews

[craggy wave]

well, formally I'm a software engineer, but I work in the Python unit

I do have to mention that it's a fairly recent career move

I used to work in academics

[grim crow]

GG, that's my goal actually I'm Computer Engineer

[grim crow]

What subjects?

[craggy wave]

statistics

[grim crow]

oh cool, I've studied stats but I've also been Academically working for Computer Networks

[craggy wave]

oh nice

[rotund field]

hey has anyone tried out pycode? It looks really organised and seems like a good main source of learning which I can use.

[marsh wind]

academics as in PhD/PostDoc? Or some full time research position

[vapid jay]

How important are personal projects on a resume if you're applying without prior internship experience?

[grim crow]

They're really important depending if you're applying as a junior or senior. Junior you need some basics projects no work experience really needed. Senior needs a lot more you need to show your work experience, skills, projects (senior levels).

[vapid jay]

I have a masters in CS but I want to work as a SE. I have no internships but i'm doing some projects right now to boost my resume outside of studying DS&A

[rustic forum]

I currently am working from home and bring new updates to Google!

[grim crow]

not to sound corny or anything but I'm really working hard to even get an intership at google, but any suggestion?

[rustic forum]

Be yourself they hate people that like to show off when asked a question answer honestly and just be yourself also dont fan boy about Google. It is cool and all but show and prove your their for the job and to share your idea's not the pay and the fame!

Do not lie about knowing something you don't know same thing applies to Apple!

[grim crow]

Actually I like working at FANG companies (who wouldn't). I got an interview and passed it with Amazon last summer but unfortunately was unable to get a visa so I lost it on the 2nd round.

this coivd situation has left us CS barehanded

[rustic forum]

Darn good luck next time. I am thinking about working somewhere else next year. I have offer's from Apple,Netflix,Microsoft,Sony,Xbox,Roku,Amazon and Razor but again not in it for the fame in it because people can benefit from my mind!

That was my biggest motivator when I was around 18.

[grim crow]

gg mate, thanks

[rustic forum]

No Problem!

I also liked to slack off freshman year in high school and college and later learned that if you want something you have to work for it and if you don't your not going to get anywhere you want to go. A lot of my classmates got the silver spoon and I was the one who had to work for what I have. Now no one can say your where you are because of me I am where I am because of myself and I love being able to say that!

[shadow mist]

How do I get my first full time Python job?

[golden tundra]

@vapid jay One of the things about personal projects is that it usually demonstrates a bit about your personality and makes you more memorable

Every CS college student does projects

They all have GPAs

But not everyone has, say, built an exercise tracking website (a project of a coworker)

Also, I think the higher you go in edu, the weirder people will probably find absolutely no CS internships

I think people tend to expect a junior year internship

Or at least one in the midst of a master’s program

One of my coworkers did a summer research position instead

But still, there’s an expectation that you did something with your summer junior year

If you didn’t work any internships but you had a compelling reason why (you were sick or something), you’re more likely to get a pass if you can at least make it to the interview stage to explain that

Of course, having as many internships as possible gives you a leg up. Two in undergrad seems almost expected now that hiring has gotten so competitive, I’ve seen some people with 3.

[vapid jay]

I feel like crying because I didn't do internships and all my friends are getting jobs and I can't even get a phone call

[golden tundra]

Can you ask one of your friends for a referral potentially? That might at least get your foot in the door @vapid jay

[wild sluice]

How hard is it to transition from freelancing into an actual job? I've been freelancing for a few years but have never had a programming job at a company.

[vapid jay]

hey I'm 13 years old i know how to make websites but i want to learn python where to go?

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[solid yew]

g

[vapid jay]

hey does anyone know of any lists / websites to give me some resume project ideas? I'm a college student wanting to start applying to internships for the summer in software and need some inspiration on what i should program.. or if anyone has any general advice for internships im open ears lol

[weary gale]

Udemy website. They have super cheap prices for online coding classes. And some of them link you to discord groups for support too.

[stone snow]

Coursera or Linkedin Learning?

[frozen yoke]

[FOR HIRE] [Front-end] [JS] [Junior Front-end Developer] [REMOTE] [CONTRACT]
Hi guys!

I am looking for a job as a Junior Front-end Developer. I have about 2 years of experience.

github: https://github.com/MrTechHunter

I will send my CV with portfolio in private message

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mahdi-hamldar/

Kindly contact me on:
[e-mail]

[hushed jungle]

On Udemy get the 100 days of code course by Angela Yu. It's the best course I've seen for python. Or if you prefer books then get Python Crash Course

[near ocean]

Bruh idk why youre trying to get a frontend position in a pyrhon server

[elder wagon]

can someone please suggest me good resume format for fresher

[ruby cliff]

Keep pushing, definitely just partake in projects, maybe even see if a company would still consider you for an internship. I know it's not ideal after graduation, however, a lot of companies are offering paid internships and it gets your foot in the door.

[vapid jay]

Thank you. I will try and get in contact with recruiters about a possible internship opportunity.

[wicked turtle]

Im not sure if this is the right channel, but I enjoy both Web Dev and I also think that I would enjoy making mobile apps, how should I go about learning/practicing them both?

[vapid jay]

Hey

[timber jetty]

?

[vapid jay]

How are you

[nova topaz]

uhm career

hmm

idrk

[delicate bane]

do we talk about internships here too? im looking for some for this summer but many places have canceled their summer internships

due to covid

[ruby cliff]

Just gotta poke around, I have skimmed the internet myself a bit and I do see internships transitioning to remote

[delicate bane]

yeah i guess im just worried about what a remote internship would look like vs a traditional one

[vapid jay]

Can I apply to software engineering jobs if the projects on my resume are in machine learning?

[grim crow]

yep, it's been pretty tough even here in EU

[dry sapphire]

pure SWE?

or MLE

[vapid jay]

just pure swe like application development or backend

[dry sapphire]

what kinda ML work have you done

[vapid jay]

honestly, just very basic stuff. classification, sentiment analysis, Medical Data (association mining)

[dry sapphire]

I guess it depends on how strong you are @ coding

it's defo not impossible but

[rustic forum]

Python can get you very far but you will make more money and better benefits if you know a lot for example I know, C++,C,HTML,Python,Css,Ruby,Java,Javascript,Php,Sql,

[sweet sail]

Anyone know where I could hire a good opencv expert?

[little trellis]

Always good to know JS + HTML/CSS so you can do front end stuff. SQL is important as well. Then a good static language like one in the C family, Java, or Go

[vapid jay]

[little trellis]

My boy!

[dry sapphire]

not proper spacing after punctuation though 😦

[ember bane]

Is there a place where freelancers can collaborate ie one can have a really large project or too many projects and freelancers can come work together according to skill

[golden tundra]

@vapid jay You can, but you should also apply to more general CS jobs with flexible duty descriptions
Assuming you got your master’s recently, you might be eligible for fresh college grad programs - some are open to people with bachelor’s or master’s. And several of those are more flexible/general on duties because they’re not hiring for a specific role to fill
Good luck

[vapid jay]

i'm also starting my second masters, but i want to work while doing it

my first masters was in computer science and my second one will be in cybersecurity

[golden tundra]

As in, you want to work full time?

Do you have a flexible class schedule?

[vapid jay]

yes. i do have experience though. i was an adjunct lecturer in graduate school and taught undergrad cs courses for 3 years.

[vapid jay]

yes

i just don't have SE experience, just teaching and some ML Projects

[little trellis]

@vapid jay why jump into a second masters?

[vapid jay]

opportunity was too good to pass up, full scholarship at a top 10 university in the US

[little trellis]

@vapid jay I see, makes sense then

[rustic forum]

Okay thank you for letting me know also not in your sentence should be capitalized.

[dry sapphire]

you're welcome 😉

[rustic forum]

Again you're is supposed to be You're

[dry sapphire]

you know I was being facetious, right

like there are multiple other grammatical mistakes you made that I didn't want to point out

also because it's off topic

[rustic forum]

Yes and so was I!

[dry sapphire]

okays that's good

I'm off 👋

[delicate bane]

glad to know im not alone

[vapid jay]

hi

[surreal mauve]

😭

[upbeat girder]

So I just feel like talking about it here, I am doing BCA (Bachelor's in Computer Applications) while my university doesn't have much to offer, still I did my best and learned things I wouldn't have learned otherwise, like Linux, Servers, Python (In college C, C++, Java only that too very old one), little bit of JavaScript, BASH, Git, Docker etc. Now regardless of having all this to add in my resume, there's only one thing which eats me day and night and that is my low aggregate marks in class 12th which aren't above 60%, it's something demotivating me and I just don't know what to do about that, like I wouldn't even be eligible for most of the jobs when they see 60% aggregate throughout high-school, intermediate and graduation. I don't know if it's the end of the road for me

[ruby cliff]

There are people in the software industry that have no formal education at all. Just keep doing what you do, get good at it, do projects, etc and you'll be fine.

[uncut nova]

Anyone has done a HackerRank assessment before? I have one coming and I'm wondering if they let me use VS Code for a draft

[versed hare]

hi

i have

[swift veldt]

Good luck in your internship search.

[quasi dirge]

If u know machine learning than why u don't do it in something related to AI🚶🏻‍♂️

[alpine flame]

Hi everyone ,I have written a blog in which I have applied non-parametric tests on entrepreneurship data-https://medium.com/swlh/women-entrepreneurship-and-non-parametric-tests-78cdfa83c0a0 .It will be great if you all review this.Any discussion on this topic is welcomed.Thanks!!

[vapid jay]

So I have quite a bit of understanding in python. Should I take a course next year and get some grades to cover me?

[opaque bloom]

totally

[vapid jay]

Hey I want to learn Java, JS and python so I can potentially switch careers. Would a coding bootcamp be worth my time or would codeacademy be good (or something like it) be enough if I had the drive?

[viscid mauve]

Is it necessary to have a coarse certificate to apply for job ??

[vivid sparrow]

no

[vapid jay]

@vapid jay thanks ... what I was asking by is the bootcamp worth it. Would interviewers look at it favorably thus making it easier to get hired once I learned the skills I needed?

However, I guess you answered that by saying most don't care and many will actually look negatively on them ... (WHAT? WHY?) If you went to bootcamp to learn the skills to do the job why look at it as a negative ... I don't get that? I can see not caring but as a negative?

Okay Appacademy is that what you used? I was looking at codeacademy and they have some videos for free but alot are premium videos

[near ocean]

Bootcamps are the lowest priority when looking at a cv

Experience > accredited certs = professional certs >>>> bootcamps

The only way a bootcamp would help is if you take those skills and apply them to a project

[vapid jay]

I know codeacademy is not a bootcamp. I was trying to ascertain would it be worth it to spend all that money on a bootcamp vs just going with something like Codeacademy

and if the bootcamp can be potentially seen as a negative ... hmm I don't think it's worth it.

[near ocean]

It wont be a negative thing, its better than nothing

But its not as positive as you think

Definitely not positive enough to warrant any payment

[vapid jay]

Yeah that's you guys seem to be telling me

[lucid totem]

Well, I am 100% new to python, I use Linux mint. How should I get started?

[digital fjord]

!resources @lucid totem you should be able to do sudo apt install python3 python3-pip to get python, then install vscode, pycharm or thonny (more or less pick at random, they all work about as well) to get a nice editor for python.
We have a list of learning resources, any of them should be quite nice to get started actually writing code. Direct any further questions to help channels, read #❓｜how-to-get-help to see how to use those. Take is slow, the beginning is the hardest part.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[ruby cliff]

This really depends on you. Are you a self starter? or do you need someone to hold you accountable? If you can self start, I'd recommend just picking up considerably cheaper courses on Udemy and pushing yourself, if you need to be held accountable, then look into a boot camp or even college. I know some bootcamps are even starting to offer scholarships, however, these scholarships vary in eligibility standards.

However, your question @vapid jay is subjective. I have said this previously but what might be worth it to you, might not be to another. Everyone has a different path, everyone has a different level of drive. I would say whatever will keep you inspired and driven enough to push you to reach your goal would be worth it, it doesn't matter if you have to spend 10k on a boot camp to do it and your co worker was self taught, everyone operates differently, apples and oranges my friend.

There are plenty of people from wall walks that have been able to find good jobs and those who haven't.

[lucid totem]

boom I have it downloaded

[vapid jay]

Thanks for your input, the main goal is to learn enough fast enough to make be able to make a career switch.

Ive had C++ when I was in college, and I did some programming in matmatica but other then that I haven't wrote any code in over a decade now.

I've been going over some python stuff on my own but Idk I feel like it's pretty aimless. I was thinking one of those bootcamps could help me feel like I'm moving in the right direction but most bootcamps are expensive while something like udemy is much cheaper!!! That being the case would it be worth it to spend that amount of money when I can go to udemy for a huge discount?!

And udemy is having a flash sell right now $11 for a python bootcamp style training lol

[ruby cliff]

Play the treadmill, start with udemy, hit it hard, get involved, push and take it from there. I recommend the Udemy course by Colt Steele.

[vapid jay]

Yeah thanks again for your input 😄

[worthy summit]

What is a good site for checking free lancing gigs that need someone that knows python?

[wide badge]

I just wanted to know if additional maths is a must for programming?

[brazen cosmos]

Yup

you need algebra, and basic maths

[wide badge]

Oh okay but is the advanced stuff in maths needed for programming

Because Ik how to do algebra and basic maths

Like different circular theorem etc

[brazen cosmos]

No you only need to know indermediate level maths in topics like calculus or algebra, or logic, but the very basics if it.

[brazen cosmos]

No

[wide badge]

Oh okay thanks

[brazen cosmos]

Also u can always google doubts like this

[wide badge]

Aight thank you so much

[vapid jay]

i feel like i’m good at coding discord bots, where do i go to make custom discord bot for others and be paid?

[wide badge]

But what career choice is better a graphic designer or a programmer?

[wide badge]

Oh okay but is calculus necessary for programming like is it used a lot in programming

[ruby cliff]

Depends, more advanced applications call for more advanced math, however, I'd say algebra is necessary

[wild wren]

how to python?

i just installed it now how do i use it

somebody help pls

[zenith bison]

@wild wren hahah

Instal a IDE

Like VSCode

https://code.visualstudio.com/download

Then go here and search of Python

And install the extension

[deep vessel]

why u asking here?

also if ur a beginner i dont think u should use vscode straight away @wild wren

[zenith bison]

why not?@deep vessel

I mean why Not VSC

[deep vessel]

it gives waay to many tools that can be overwhelming to beginners,

and we should really not be talking abt this here

[zenith bison]

Then write on Notepad++ idk

@wild wren Well, just start with a python tutroial on Youtube

U cant just start typing random stuff

[summer trout]

Notepad++ is a great place to start as an IDE for python, I don't think IDLE is bad either. It's good to start out with a vanilla install of python so you learn about installing libraries, before using something like anaconda to get Spyder and Jupyter - I have fallen for Jupyter though for annotation's sake

[silver dune]

so i had a question about data science, what kind of career is it?

[ornate nimbus]

a short one

[silver dune]

could you elaborate?

[ornate nimbus]

I'm not programmed to say useful things

[marsh wind]

Same as any : anywhere between boring and annoying to exciting and super awesome

Depends on your expectations and the job

[silver dune]

okay

any careers that are very obscure in the computer science indurstry?

industry*

[ornate nimbus]

Plenty

but in my experience you get those by having a wide skillset and looking for something narrow if that makes sense

[silver dune]

yeah that does make

sense

what might an example be?

[ornate nimbus]

In my case it's compiler development

I took the compilers course at university, but other than that I had no compiler experience

but I had plenty of engineering experience

As for data science, I think what you'll find is you'll end up being a data engineer

that is, you make pipelines for scrubbing, normalizing and transforming data

[silver dune]

very little analysis? or is that included in the other segments

[ornate nimbus]

Yeah, little analysis

modelbuilder.pca() doesn't count

in fact, I would be very happy if everyone would just refrain from using PCA unless it was warranted 😂

Unwarranted cynicism aside, data-science is absolutely a real thing

but most of it is aligning the pipes

[silver dune]

im curious as to what would be a key occupation, i just want stability till im 40

and have enough money to do whatever i want from there

obviously that's idealistic but its not out of the realm of possibility

[ornate nimbus]

I don't understand, you're how old now?

[silver dune]

18

in High School right now

[ornate nimbus]

Ah hah

[silver dune]

hahha i think that my framing was bad

lol

[ornate nimbus]

I figured you were 30 if you were thinking about your 40s

[silver dune]

lol

that would be bad

with the level of knowledge i have about basic python right now lol

[ornate nimbus]

Well then my advice for you is to explore what programming can be

Try different languages, do different things

[silver dune]

Yeah, I'm already well acquainted with HTML and CSS

[ornate nimbus]

Even if data science in python is your true call, having done other things in other languages will be a huge benefit

[silver dune]

Just getting into backend recently

[silver dune]

alright, thanks for that advice

[ocean tundra]

I'm 16 and know very minimal and basic python, is there a way I can get paid online for coding after learning python better? And could I maybe code for someone for free? Just to get the expierence and stuff?

Obv I have to learn python better first

[silver dune]

just use a bunch of free edx courses

don't worry about certifications

[ornate nimbus]

Also, try picking up a strong, static typed language before pythons haphazard ducktyping rot your brain

[silver dune]

just keep coding and doing your own projects

that's how it works for everything related to learning

[ocean tundra]

I'm taking a software development course in school and we are learnign python

[ornate nimbus]

Oh, and I didn't code before I was 23

[silver dune]

hahah will do, thanks!

[silver dune]

yeah im sure age hardly makes a difference

[ornate nimbus]

I happen to be especially fond of scala

but it's a difficult language

[ocean tundra]

And in a year or 2 I will complete the course, so if I could know where I could take my skills online and maybe make some money in the future off of coding online

[ornate nimbus]

I wish there was a version of scala solely focused on education

[ocean tundra]

any suggestions?

[silver dune]

take some online courses about the fields you're interested in

that helped me with my web development learning

[ocean tundra]

any website in particular?

[silver dune]

edX

coursera

[ornate nimbus]

It's not exactly germane to the python career channel, but I highly reccomend picking up "Functional programming in scala"

And do the first chapter about lists

[ocean tundra]

Scala is a programing language?

[ornate nimbus]

Yes

[ocean tundra]

Why should I learn it instead of python or java tho?

[ornate nimbus]

Because it's so different

[ocean tundra]

or i dunno c++ or other lannguages

[silver dune]

its based on what you want to do

[ornate nimbus]

I suggest it purely as an academic thing, it won't teach you to write scala apps

nor should you

[silver dune]

i'll say this much, learn procedural programming instead of trying to learn languages, you'll be able to do everything

[ornate nimbus]

and stay away from C++

It's a completely broken language

(the one I write on my job...)

[ocean tundra]

We're gonna do C++ next semester so I cant really stay away from it

[ornate nimbus]

Don't worry

A course on C++ will help you improve as a programmer just as much as a course on scala will

[silver dune]

this is advice that I got from a cs grad student @ocean tundra

[ornate nimbus]

Oh, and in the same vein as trying out scala, not because you should use it but because you should learn from it, I want to suggest going through the basics of C

[ocean tundra]

Yeah I got what you mean

[ocean tundra]

What exactly is procedural programming?

[silver dune]

its a type of language, there are two types, object oriented and procedural

[ornate nimbus]

but for dogs sake stop before you get ideas like writing real programs in C

[silver dune]

python is an example of a procedural programming language

[ornate nimbus]

A procedure is like a function that doesn't return arguments

So in order for the function to do anything, it must have a side effect

That is, it changes some memory location

[ocean tundra]

Sorry I'm not understanding, procedural programming is a function??

[ornate nimbus]

This means that instead of building up a sort of "pipeline" of functions like a conveyor belt

you just have a bunch of procedures

[silver dune]

^

[ocean tundra]

oh wait I know what you mean I think

Like the way you write the code?

[ornate nimbus]

procedure and procedural programming is like object and OOP

You can write procedural programming in any language

but some are more suited

such as C or python

[ocean tundra]

yeah yeah I know what you mean now

[ornate nimbus]

It's an important lesson, pay attention to how the things provided by the language makes certain things easier to express, and other things hard to express

For instance in functional programming, a popular style is to use immutable types always

thus the only way to change a value is to copy it and edit it

and assign the result of the copy operation to a different name

(or the same name, but in a different scope)

anyways, that concludes this seminar of random computer ruminations

[silver dune]

haha thanks professor peter

[ornate nimbus]

address me by my correct title

phd dropout

[silver dune]

fr?

[ornate nimbus]

nope