#career-advice | Python | Page 348

signal spruce Jun 8, 2020, 7:08 PM

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lmao

sterile wave Jun 8, 2020, 7:10 PM

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you mean like

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web pages?

vapid jay Jun 8, 2020, 7:12 PM

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I'm unsure - totally new to the whole web dev sector or what you guys call it

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But yes

sterile wave Jun 8, 2020, 7:16 PM

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no, a web front end has to run on HTML, CSS and JavaScript (or more modernly Web Assembly, which can be compiled from lots of languages)

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python is designed for programs and server side applications: you can use it a lot in webdev but only on the backend, or maybe for devops scripts or something as well

vapid jay Jun 8, 2020, 7:17 PM

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Ah

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I suppose I'll have to learn JS then

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Thank you, Seagull

inner wrenBOT Jun 8, 2020, 7:29 PM

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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @pallid badge until 2020-06-08 19:39 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

modest arch Jun 8, 2020, 7:33 PM

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@vapid jay you've really gone ahead😂🤔

dry hedge Jun 8, 2020, 10:46 PM

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Haha

obsidian acorn Jun 9, 2020, 12:47 AM

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@modest arch in terms of interviews, talk in very detail about what you have worked on, demonstrating your thorough understanding of what you have done. In terms of resume, it's more on the job boards, make sure you fill out all the tools that are applicable to you, even if you have minimal knowledge in it.
Better of picking up what you can do out of a pill, that not having a pile at all

hushed jungle Jun 9, 2020, 2:27 AM

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Looking to get into the data science field. Would a Masters in Data Science hold the same weight there as a CS degree would?

wheat oxide Jun 9, 2020, 2:37 AM

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@hushed jungle Possibly more, possibly less, depending on the details. To me "data science" is still a bit of a buzz word, but a good mix of CS and statistics is better than just CS for machine learning.

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 7:43 AM

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what are some good colleges for CS degrees?

little oyster Jun 9, 2020, 7:58 AM

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How to get internship in machine learning and data science

lapis tendon Jun 9, 2020, 8:21 AM

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@vapid jay harvard my guy

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lol

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 8:21 AM

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haha

tidal socket Jun 9, 2020, 8:31 AM

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https://mei.org.uk/alevelpapers @lapis tendon core (normal maths), further pure (further maths) - and you also do some stats and mechanics

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 8:52 AM

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@vapid jay Any college that has a CS department. The demand for CS students is higher than the supply. As long as you have projects behind your back it doesn't matter. Also the dedication you put into it. I go to an average joe school but I was the first freshman to have their own project with seniors working under me which probably wouldn't be possible in a school like UCLA

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 9:13 AM

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I'm looking for an internship next semester or next summer for my sophomore year. I am currently the only freshman to be in a research group for "Automated Testing and Validation for Software Systems Based on Machine Learning" and next year I will be presenting my Sentiment Analysis project at my colleges Research Symposium. My dream job revolves around autonomous vehicles such as tesla which is why I'm working a lot around Machine learning and AI. I'd appreciated any help on how or where to start to get my internship. Have a great rest of your day! (Also this internship is a top priority for me so relocating or anything does not matter)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-alvarado/ (need to add my project)

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 12:39 PM

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ML for autonomous vehicles has a steep learning curve.. you seem to be all over the place and don't have a firm handle on what industry needs

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let's start with domains in DS for ML, sentiment analysis would come under NLP, there's image processing which has applications in medical imagery, computer vision when applied with image processing has its applications in autonomous vehicles.. there's countless other domains, meaning each require certain level of domain expertise

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evaluate where you are and where you want to go, to figure out what skills you need to get there..

sterile wave Jun 9, 2020, 12:42 PM

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well an internship might be a good way to actually see what the industry is like

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depending on how competitive it is

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 12:43 PM

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yes, finding an internship where one can pick up the necessary skillset will be invaluable..

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you know I was answering that before you deleted your post:|

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 12:59 PM

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you guys think it is possible to become a data analyst trhough self study? but the problem is idk where to start? stats? coding? or excel? or what???

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XD

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ahhaah

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i thought no one read it

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sry

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 12:59 PM

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Excel, Inferential and Descriptive stats on udacity, SQL--> Basic:

SELECT and WHERE for filtering and selection.
COUNT, SUM, MAX for aggregating data.
DISTINCT, GROUP BY, COUNT DISTINCT for producing useful distinct lists and distinct aggregates.
LEFT and INNER JOIN when/where to use them.

Intermediate:

Handling NULLs creatively (e.g. with COALESCE)
Subqueries and the impact of subqueries on efficiency of the query. Some basic ability to tune the query.
Using LEFT AND INNER JOIN as a means of filtering without using the WHERE statements.
Self joins for leveraging a table against itself.

Advanced:

Use of indexes in querying to make operations faster.
Window functions like RANK and DENSE RANK.
Stored procedures.
UDFs (user defined functions)
Triggers
PIVOT and UNPIVOT

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 1:00 PM

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how about python and r?

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 1:01 PM

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those are additional skillsets, pick one.. but being a good data analyst is basically being able to apply stats and any one tool to do that, along with some domain knowledge

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 1:03 PM

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are there free courses? XD

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prefer not udacity

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 1:04 PM

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udacity is pretty good for these particular courses.. and they are free

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 1:04 PM

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wait.. really? i tot need pay

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 1:04 PM

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nope

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 1:18 PM

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i cant seem to find excel courses on udacity

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ill do intro to stats, then inferential stats and then intro to sql

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i mean sql for data analysis

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 1:23 PM

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yeah, I only said the stats courses were on udacity..

solid elbow Jun 9, 2020, 1:24 PM

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XD. you a data analyst?

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 1:34 PM

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data engineer

ionic ocean Jun 9, 2020, 5:00 PM

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@vapid jay you rock. Lol as someone who just seen all this and now have a better idea of how to do what I'm working on already thanks

inner wrenBOT Jun 9, 2020, 5:38 PM

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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @wheat brook until 2020-06-09 17:48 (9 minutes and 58 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

halcyon plank Jun 9, 2020, 6:38 PM

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Here’s a student life related question:

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I am planning to do an MS in USA

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And I want to make my career in Application Development

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So is there an option for MS in Application Development or any uni which is renowned in that field

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Or is it just an MS in Computer Science?

modest arch Jun 9, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Thanks @obsidian acorn

vapid jay Jun 9, 2020, 7:27 PM

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@halcyon plank I mean, you can get an MS in computer science and specialize in application development

shadow moss Jun 9, 2020, 7:37 PM

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@halcyon plank why though, pay won’t match debt load most likely

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And what Davr said

crude crown Jun 9, 2020, 8:53 PM

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I would go with a regular MS in CS.

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 12:00 AM

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im not old enough for college yet but i would like to get a career in ethical hacking or something similar. what degree would i need in order to do that?

stable cipher Jun 10, 2020, 12:02 AM

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most colleges that have CS programs offer security classes of many flavors as well as clubs that learn/compete in security challenges

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 12:04 AM

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ah thank you

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i've heard that i need to learn several programming languages for it and Python is the one i've heard associated with it a lotttt

sterile wave Jun 10, 2020, 12:11 AM

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start practicing

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try hackthebox, hackthissite, there are other challenges

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 12:15 AM

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thank you. i dont know a single thing about what to do

summer roost Jun 10, 2020, 12:16 AM

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You'd generally be looking for a Computer Science major with a concentration in Security.

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And you should expect to have very good knowledge of C and/or assembly by the end of the program.

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 12:41 AM

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thank you 🙂

mint citrus Jun 10, 2020, 12:57 AM

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uses hack the box

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was also into it before hack the box was a thing

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it comes in good use tbh. I proved to my boss about all the vuln we have at the office (dont worry I got written consent im allowed to pen test)

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 1:22 AM

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wait so im confused. i actually have to hack it? im not sure how to do that. ive just started learning

mint citrus Jun 10, 2020, 1:23 AM

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yeah you have to hack it

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(tho really it cant really be considered hacking imo)

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the hint they give is a really big hint

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I guess it requires a bit of knowledge of how things work

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there are prob 2 ways you can get in imo

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anyways gl hf. you have to figure it out for yourself

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ps: first time I visited I didnt get it but later on I figured it out.

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 1:56 AM

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lol thank you I'll try again

nimble prairie Jun 10, 2020, 3:57 AM

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Hello! Would completing an online course and receiving a Certificate from EDx or Coursera help me with getting a job? Any tips would be appreciated.

coarse zinc Jun 10, 2020, 4:19 AM

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@nimble prairie If you do meaningful portfolio work as a result of what you learned in the classes, sure. I don't think employers really care about the certificate so much as seeing that you can code intuitively without referring to StackOverflow for everything.

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So general question...what level of expertise do you think is necessary to do freelance work that isn't paid $10/hr? It's been a while since I've been on Upwork, etc., but it feels like a race to the bottom unless you're a highly experienced full stack dev, or close to it.

halcyon plank Jun 10, 2020, 5:28 AM

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@shadow moss, Am from India & the pay here is shitty 🤷‍♂️

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

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I'm looking for an internship next semester or next summer for my sophomore year. I am currently the only freshman to be in a research group for "Automated Testing and Validation for Software Systems Based on Machine Learning" and next year I will be presenting my Sentiment Analysis project at my colleges Research Symposium. My dream job revolves around autonomous vehicles such as tesla which is why I'm working a lot around Machine learning and AI. I'd appreciated any help on how or where to start to get my internship. Have a great rest of your day! (Also this internship is a top priority for me so relocating or anything does not matter)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-alvarado/ (need to add my project)

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 9:49 AM

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you've asked this before.. I answered you, look up

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:19 AM

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Is it better to add lots of stuff to your GitHub or to have a few high quality repositories?

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Are companies ever going to look at my source code when recruiting?

vast shoal Jun 10, 2020, 10:26 AM

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My common sense intuition would be that it's better to have a high ratio of high quality code. I would definitely look at your source code if I was going to recruit you. That says a lot of useful things about you, more than a resume or an interview could, probably.

marsh geyser Jun 10, 2020, 10:30 AM

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@vapid jay You should contact a company and ask one of the employees or the boss to shadow them for a day. If you have some charisma, you can get some good contacts in the industry and you may get an opportunity for an internship

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That's what i did

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:30 AM

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Thank you!

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@marsh geyser mind if i pm you?

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@vapid jay sorry i didnt get any notifs of responses. illscroll up

marsh geyser Jun 10, 2020, 10:32 AM

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@vapid jay NP

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 10:54 AM

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Are companies ever going to look at my source code when recruiting?
@vapid jay I always search for candidates on github/etc and like it when I can find them, even if they only have toy projects

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:55 AM

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@glossy pecan are you a recruiter?

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 10:55 AM

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no, but I hire engineers

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:55 AM

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do you look at linkedin?

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 10:55 AM

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yeah of course

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:55 AM

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Thanks, mpeg

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how do you search for candidates on linkedin

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 10:56 AM

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so normally the recruiter sends me just a CV with some cover notes, and I almost always will search for the candidate's name on linkedin/github

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just manually search for them, I almost always will have at least a 2nd/3rd connection

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even if just the recruiter

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recruiters of course usually have the recruiter version of linkedin which lets them search everyone

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:58 AM

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I've heard of recruiters messages engineers without them applying anywhere for an interview. Just wondering how a linkedin accoun would get that traction where a recruiter would find them

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 10:58 AM

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yep that's pretty common, they use this kind of tool https://business.linkedin.com/talent-solutions/recruiter

The Industry-Standard Recruiting Tool | LinkedIn Talent Solutions

Find and contact anyone on LinkedIn with the industry-standard recruiting tool.

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and it's mostly keyword and connections driven

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recruiters don't really like to work that hard, so if they can find a few keywords on your profile (the right job titles / technologies) and you have some mutual connections, they will likely reach out

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 10:59 AM

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I'm assuming there's ways to play with that and get more traction. also random question but does a students year affect their chances. I'm a sophomore but I feel that i have more to show than most juniors

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:00 AM

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oh this is for an internship?

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you should try to contact internship-specific recruiters

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it might vary depending on your location, but at least where I am (London, UK) we have a few agencies that specialise in finding interns

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so being listed by them gets you noticed

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 11:01 AM

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is this a paid service? I've never heard of it

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:01 AM

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no, the company pays

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so if a company wants to hire you, and they got your cv from the recruiter, the company pays (normally a flat fee for internships)

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for you, it's free and a good way to get seen

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 11:04 AM

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I'll for sure look into that thank you. Last question before i sleep because its 4 Am for me. Do you know on average how much internships pay

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i need to finish this ReadMe that i've been holding off

marsh wind Jun 10, 2020, 11:06 AM

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I think comapny would rarely reach out directly through linkedin to offer internships: AFAIK they get tons off people applying for internships

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I've heard of recruiters messages engineers without them applying anywhere for an interview.
so this would more likely apply for full time positions/consulting things rather that internships

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:09 AM

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I'll for sure look into that thank you. Last question before i sleep because its 4 Am for me. Do you know on average how much internships pay
@vapid jay honestly this can be a huge range depending on the company, the location and yourself

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some pay nothing, just travel and food, some pay minimum wage, and some pay the same as a junior dev would make

obsidian acorn Jun 10, 2020, 11:09 AM

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And the recruiters usually reach out to seniors engineers and above

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:10 AM

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but expectations also scale up considerably the more they pay, if they're paying junior dev rates they probably expect similar output

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 11:10 AM

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That makes sense

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:10 AM

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while if they pay low hourly rates, you're not expected to do much, just to learn

vapid jay Jun 10, 2020, 11:13 AM

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the most important thing is work experience I was just curious. Thank you for answering my questions. I'll probably get my college to look over my resume and linkedin to have it ready. Have a great rest of your day @glossy pecan

glossy pecan Jun 10, 2020, 11:13 AM

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no worries, you too

marsh wind Jun 10, 2020, 11:19 AM

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And the recruiters usually reach out to seniors engineers and above
depends a lot on geograhical area and the specific field I guess. I had some reach to me while I had no industry experience 🤷‍♂️ (even though it did not work out for one reason or another with, they can reach out knowing that you are nowhere around senior)

shadow moss Jun 10, 2020, 1:17 PM

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@halcyon plank ok but it’s not guarantee you get a visa if you graduate and if you do, it’s low wages (for America) for a while until you gain LPR status.

still torrent Jun 10, 2020, 2:40 PM

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@everyone does any1 know gmail hacking??

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plss answer i really need help

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dm me

nimble prairie Jun 10, 2020, 2:40 PM

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gmail hacking?

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KEKW

hardy briar Jun 10, 2020, 3:04 PM

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guys, any tips on where and how to start freelancing on python?

i'm very confortable with using libraries and "reading documentation".

I know we have guides for that here in the channel, but guides are generalist, i wanted a tip from someone who's "fulltime" freelancer

nimble prairie Jun 10, 2020, 3:24 PM

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wondering the same thing @hardy briar

tulip ice Jun 10, 2020, 3:35 PM

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For the recruiters in this group, do you have examples of Github starter profiles that you see as 'ready for work' material? I'm really insecure about mine, but I wanted some light on what are the things I need to do to improve it.

hardy briar Jun 10, 2020, 4:09 PM

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one thing i wanted to ask is: what projects are good to have as a base in github?

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somebody told me is good to do related to what you want to work with, but idk which area i would like to work :x

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when i was younger i programmed lot's of MT4 bots for algo trading

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have some experience in that, but idk how to get jobs at iw

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it*

shadow moss Jun 10, 2020, 4:42 PM

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Look at trading house websites?

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Most of those jobs will be either New York/New Jersey or overseas

tulip ice Jun 10, 2020, 5:45 PM

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somebody told me is good to do related to what you want to work with, but idk which area i would like to work :x
@hardy briar Same thing, since I don't have professional experience.

hardy briar Jun 10, 2020, 5:48 PM

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@shadow moss i have an "basic" experience, not a quant

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made at least 100 bots

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2 of them i used for mysefl

shadow moss Jun 10, 2020, 6:29 PM

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ngeorg, since the money involved, most places are very cagey who they hire

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and market trader bot is fine to show off

strange ether Jun 10, 2020, 7:35 PM

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@hardy briar iirc python is not used by quantshops for the most part just because of the need for low latency execution , maybe more research side ? But even then I think that R is the go to

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Retail algo trading though , python is excellent

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just because you can research and deploy in the same language and you do not have to worry about execution speed all that much

hardy briar Jun 10, 2020, 8:26 PM

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oh

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i didn't follow, i'm 8 months old on python

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i know R is good for modeling

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but idk how haha

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😛

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if i could do some on python

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it would be great

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@strange ether

strange ether Jun 10, 2020, 8:28 PM

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I built my own algo in python it is a really good language for it

hardy briar Jun 10, 2020, 8:40 PM

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oh that's awesome

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what libs/technologies did you used?

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if you dont mind answering, of course

marsh wind Jun 10, 2020, 9:23 PM

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I know people (quants) do use python in fintech

strange ether Jun 10, 2020, 10:02 PM

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pandas / numpy for the most part , then just utilized a python wrapper that someone made for the TDA API

shadow moss Jun 10, 2020, 10:07 PM

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Sure, depends on trading house but some are doing that quick micro trading

hardy briar Jun 11, 2020, 1:35 AM

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i've created an model back then to trade 3 currencies using arbitrage

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but got insane results

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never managed to make the bot to it

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i made it entirely manual

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bot got 96% of profitable trades, with an profit of 223% on 27 trades

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currencies, forex market

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using lots of leverage

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that was really cool,

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i think i could do a good job making these kind of things, i'm good at finding patterns between stocks, currency and commodities

viral ridge Jun 11, 2020, 8:10 AM

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What exactly does an IT technical analyst do? Is it a downgrade from software engineer? I had a job offer but they say its hybrid SWE and tech analyst (IT)

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@hardy briar 223% on 27 trades doesnt seem unlucky, emphasize on luck. you cant expect these gains on a recurring basis imho

balmy mural Jun 11, 2020, 8:12 AM

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arbitrage trading is almost riskless, so he can exppect it on a recurring basis

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Although I can't see how 223% profit is possible considering the small margins that's actually possible using arbitrage

viral ridge Jun 11, 2020, 8:36 AM

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so basically you're agreeing that he cant expect those gains... lol

sterile wave Jun 11, 2020, 8:59 AM

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@hardy briar take a look at the Steam market

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lots of arbitrage

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admittedly absolutely shocking returns given you can't do bots

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but it was fun for a bit

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and you can consistently make a profit if you know what you're doing

wind hinge Jun 11, 2020, 9:01 AM

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oo making trading bot would be funny

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if i woulda ctually know when to trade

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or how to read charts qwq

sterile wave Jun 11, 2020, 9:05 AM

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trading arbitrage on steam is literally just 'buy things that are wobbly and old enough not to randomly plummet'

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buy wobbly low

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sell wobbly high

wind hinge Jun 11, 2020, 9:07 AM

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i thought abt iq option or smt like that

viral ridge Jun 11, 2020, 9:18 AM

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cant do bots :P?

craggy wave Jun 11, 2020, 9:48 AM

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Hello, @silent haven, could you explain why you'd randomly share a link to an article you wrote on medium, without context or even sending a message to this server in almost a year?

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 11:09 AM

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What's a job I could get with a bachelor degree in computer science and math?

vast shoal Jun 11, 2020, 11:10 AM

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Software developer?

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 11:10 AM

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depends on what part of CS you're specifically into

vast shoal Jun 11, 2020, 11:15 AM

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Excuse me?

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 11:16 AM

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?

vast shoal Jun 11, 2020, 11:17 AM

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What do you mean by that?

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@vapid jay If you're trying to make a joke, please keep that to off-topic. This an on-topic channel.

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 11:27 AM

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Sorry about that

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it was meant to be a serious question 😅

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software dev is not really my dream job 🤔

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@vapid jay I could specialise in financial math or anything else that's mathy

vast shoal Jun 11, 2020, 11:30 AM

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I used to work for a fintech company that had people in roles that were sort of inbetween developer and quant. They wrote code, but focused on financial algorithms, formulas and analysis and such.

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You could probably do that.

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Data science jobs probably have more of a mathy streak than general software development too.

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 11:32 AM

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Hey, I want to ask that I want some money to pay for exams like CKAD, AWS and others. How to make money in UpWork as a freelancer? Please guide me.

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sounds like fun

exotic sable Jun 11, 2020, 1:39 PM

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not me

toxic crest Jun 11, 2020, 3:00 PM

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anyone up familiar with django?

hardy briar Jun 11, 2020, 3:28 PM

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@hardy briar 223% on 27 trades doesnt seem unlucky, emphasize on luck. you cant expect these gains on a recurring basis imho
@viral ridge i found a gap in the market, tried to explore it and managed to do it, the "loss" trades were trades on other pairs to compensate loss/gain in the main pair

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made a great study on that, my undergraduate tesis will be based on that

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but idk how to make trading bots in python

shadow moss Jun 11, 2020, 3:56 PM

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Read API, analyze data, make trades

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 4:14 PM

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What are good platforms to go jobhunting on? I'm looking to do freelancing programming

little oyster Jun 11, 2020, 5:09 PM

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@vapid jay are you developer ?

vapid jay Jun 11, 2020, 5:10 PM

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Mathstudent with a background in programming and comp science

little oyster Jun 11, 2020, 5:11 PM

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oh student me too

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IT student

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so you're looking for job

fringe plume Jun 11, 2020, 5:17 PM

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LinkedIn, indeed, glassdoor, stackoverflow~

violet pond Jun 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

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Question to employers, if anyone is here:
if someone without work experience applies for your Junior job post, but he has considerable portfolio (let's say, 5 good projects) and PCAP cert., would you employ him?

stable cipher Jun 11, 2020, 7:59 PM

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would definitely bring them in for an interview or have a phone call at the least

hardy briar Jun 11, 2020, 8:29 PM

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@stable cipher do you have any tip on which kind of project to do to "populate" the github account? not considering the "what area do you want to work" but considering "what the general employers want the employee to know"?

stable cipher Jun 11, 2020, 8:30 PM

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I work at startups so I like to see breadth of application, my idea case is that I would see a web dev project with both frontend and backend that's deployed in production

hardy briar Jun 11, 2020, 8:31 PM

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hmmm

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got it

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i never deployed anything, that's a problem i guess

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i make local projects only

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i'm making an logistics app right now, i strongly expect it to become an startup till february 2021

frosty narwhal Jun 11, 2020, 9:38 PM

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what kind of software jobs can I get with computer programming certificate?

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i am taking an Introduction to Programming course rn, and once i complete it, I will be given a certificate which will be my only official education in computer programming

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ive been looking online for entry level jobs, but i can only find jobs that require a degree

white karma Jun 11, 2020, 10:26 PM

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Get a portfolio going first

peak jewel Jun 11, 2020, 11:48 PM

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Portafolio is it like? 😅 sorry Noob question

white karma Jun 12, 2020, 12:04 AM

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A resume pretty much of projects you want to show to your potential employers

young temple Jun 12, 2020, 2:45 AM

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Is it okay if I don't do java and basically python and c++ ? Java just isn't working out for me .

shadow moss Jun 12, 2020, 2:55 AM

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career wise, probably not

agile patio Jun 12, 2020, 2:55 AM

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What else should I learn

#

After python

#

Rn I'm tryna learn it

#

I'm aiming to hopefully be a software engineer

young temple Jun 12, 2020, 2:57 AM

#

Sigh, guess I really gotta work on that.

agile patio Jun 12, 2020, 2:57 AM

#

Isnt java just a more difficult version of python

shadow moss Jun 12, 2020, 3:00 AM

#

Java is just so used by corporations

vapid jay Jun 12, 2020, 3:23 AM

#

I think Java is more like the baby of C and Python

quick grove Jun 12, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

Python has it's strengths in the industry. Rapid dev, good packages for ml/data science and it's a low ramp up time to learn

vast shoal Jun 12, 2020, 10:00 AM

#

Java and Python have some things in common, but there are a lot of differences as well. You can't really consider one to be a version of the other.

neon moat Jun 12, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

What are majority of jobs in your area looking for? Java? Python?
What is your goal? To get hired?
Stop thinking you need multiple languages, get good at one, learn a framework, go and get a job.
Then think about your next step.
Too many people want to be 'freelancers' with zero experience in production systems, competing with people who have years of experience and have put in the leg work as permanent employees.

#

I think a lot of people have lost touch with the dedication and time required to learn a skill to any level of proficiency, but thats just my own opinion

ashen niche Jun 12, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

it depends a lot on what you want to do and what the jobs are near you

#

java might help you get a reliable safe job at wells fargo or some huge bank

#

but it's not exactly going to be bleeding edge tech

#

(generalizing obviously)

#

are there a lot of university or science jobs near you? R might not be a bad thing to learn

neon moat Jun 12, 2020, 6:09 PM

#

Lol how can you say it depends on what jobs are near you and then say R might not be bad?

ashen niche Jun 12, 2020, 6:12 PM

#

I don't understand your point. There are tons of jobs that ask for R and python near me

#

R is a goofy language, but might give you a leg up on someone who only knows python

sullen osprey Jun 12, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

Guys how do you find job as flask dev?

neon moat Jun 12, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

apply for jobs that ask for flask 🤷‍♂️

shadow moss Jun 12, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

There are start ups that use Java as well

#

Netflix uses it extensively. I found most startups end up using whatever language it’s first developer or founder used.

neon moat Jun 12, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

True

wraith vine Jun 12, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

Are Certificates useful for finding a job programming?

harsh sable Jun 12, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

@wraith vine certs are never a bad thing. They are especially good if you study for and pass a cert in area new to yourself.

#

but

#

I never hired anyone only because they had a cert, and I met plenty of cert'd people that I wondered how they passed the exam.

#

If someone has certs on his cv it another reason I might talk more with them

neon moat Jun 12, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

a cert in what? would an employer rather see an app built in a framework they are looking for knowledge in, or someone with a cert?

spice musk Jun 12, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

For those of you who hire, what do you many times find missing from graduate/entry level applications or resumes that matter to you?

marsh wind Jun 12, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

I was led to believe that certs without projects or any other experience are next to useless

polar turret Jun 12, 2020, 8:17 PM

#

I think it depends on the country a bit also.

marsh wind Jun 12, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

It was reiterated by people from different places

#

But I guess yes

harsh sable Jun 12, 2020, 8:23 PM

#

(no experience && no cert) < (no experience && certs)

#

any if you really studied you learned something

#

if you passed the cert on brain dumps then you get almost nothing apart from a small increase in chance to get to a phone screening.

#

lots of knobhead type people sh*t from a great heigh on any form of cert. Either because they want to show when are soo uber they don't need them or maybe because they don't like that they haven't passed any 🙂

#

similarly some people with certs like to behave as if the certs are the be all and end all.

#

cert are great for helping to structure your studies (especially when you are entry level) and help get you past some tickbox bs stuff with recruiters, not technical folks that are browsing lots of CV.

vapid jay Jun 12, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

Does anyone have a portfolio website? I want to get some reference ideas

vapid jay Jun 13, 2020, 3:23 AM

#

ok

cerulean lintel Jun 13, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Hi, is anyone here a self taught software engineer?

little oyster Jun 13, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

Does anyone have a portfolio website? I want to get some reference ideas
@vapid jay https://coreyms.com/portfolio/ this is not mine

Corey Schafer Portfolio|Resume

Portfolio, Resume of Corey Schafer

clear orchid Jun 13, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

@vapid jay https://unsupervisedpandas.com/about/

Not sure if it counts as a "portfolio". It's open source on my Github.

Unsupervised Pandas

About Me

Some of my experience with data.

little oyster Jun 13, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

@clear orchid nice one

#

@clear orchid which repo on your github ?

clear orchid Jun 13, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

@little oyster https://github.com/raab70/raab70.github.io

GitHub

Raab70/Raab70.github.io

Unsupervised Pandas - Another blog about data. Contribute to Raab70/Raab70.github.io development by creating an account on GitHub.

marsh wind Jun 13, 2020, 9:51 AM

#

Hi, is anyone here a self taught software engineer?
@cerulean lintel there's a post pinned in this channel about the story of one PyDis member

#

There others too, obviously

sterile wave Jun 13, 2020, 10:58 AM

#

I think most people are largely self taught

vapid jay Jun 13, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

@little oyster @clear orchid Thank you guys

#

I had no clue on what to put on mine

#

so I made some typewriting effect about my introduction and working on a console where the user can encrypt and decrypt text with RSA encryption

#

because I have no idea what to put on the front page

#

but now I have a better idea

#

Again, I thank you guys

dense topaz Jun 13, 2020, 1:35 PM

#

@sterile wave even if you went to school you still have to teach yourself

shadow moss Jun 13, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

This is for career related stuff, not random dropping of videos

open patio Jun 13, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

yeah, please don't post a random off-topic video here @faint bison

faint bison Jun 13, 2020, 3:57 PM

#

Yeah

#

Okay

sullen osprey Jun 13, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

Guys in order to build portfolio i need projects to work with

#

Where can i find one as flask web dev

cloud trail Jun 13, 2020, 8:31 PM

#

Hope this is all right to post here!

#

Ope there's probably a better place

lyric widget Jun 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

hi

sterile wave Jun 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

hello

vapid jay Jun 14, 2020, 12:41 AM

#

@sterile wave you get a hi cuz you're 17

#

@lyric widget you get a hello

vapid jay Jun 14, 2020, 1:06 AM

#

Hey, is the HackerRank certificate any good?

glacial ocean Jun 14, 2020, 1:47 AM

#

Does anyone have a portfolio website? I want to get some reference ideas
@vapid jay I do. I'll pm you it. 🙂

copper fiber Jun 14, 2020, 3:34 PM

#

Hey guys... I'm working on getting an associates in cloud computing. Can anyone shed light on what entry level positions will require from an individual with certifications in Amazon Web Services and maybe an associates degree and no prior experience? Thanks a whole bunch!

sterile wave Jun 14, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

there's an excellent AWS discord server

#

if you would like to get an invite, message me asking for one pls

copper fiber Jun 14, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

@sterile wave will do right away!

vapid jay Jun 14, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

speaking of AWS! i am getting asked for a payment method but i don't have one yet.

#

can i already get one at my age ?

#

or is there an alternative?

#

can i see your website too @glacial ocean ?

sterile wave Jun 14, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

i think you have to put one in not sure

vapid jay Jun 14, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

how

signal spruce Jun 14, 2020, 9:29 PM

#

Is there a job that requires high level mathematics and coding?

#

I really love both to death and I haven't found a good career that has a nice balance of both

sterile wave Jun 14, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

depends what kind of maths if that makes sense

#

a lot of fields involve applying maths, but is there anything specifically you're interested in?

nimble prairie Jun 14, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

Hello, at 16 do you guys think I could find an internship at some software company? I just really want to get some experience in the field.

shadow moss Jun 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

right now, it would be pretty hard

#

You can try, just good luck

sterile wave Jun 14, 2020, 10:17 PM

#

try personal connections even if they're vague

nimble prairie Jun 14, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

Ok so its still possible thanks.

shadow moss Jun 14, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

I mean, assuming it's not illegal to hire you, then yes

#

ANYTHING is possible

#

I see it being pretty difficult in the United States right now unless you have great connections

nimble prairie Jun 14, 2020, 10:31 PM

#

I think I am just going to call companies in my area and ask them If the would be willing to let me intern for experience.

shadow moss Jun 14, 2020, 10:31 PM

#

Good luck

nimble prairie Jun 14, 2020, 10:32 PM

#

thanks

glacial ocean Jun 14, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

can i see your website too @glacial ocean ?
@vapid jay I've pm'd you 🙂

sleek field Jun 15, 2020, 12:08 AM

#

Not sure if its relevant to this channel but is it likely you'll get any orders offering python services on Fiverr?

sterile wave Jun 15, 2020, 12:10 AM

#

almost certainly

#

but they'll probably be terrible clients

#

i would imagine

sleek field Jun 15, 2020, 12:11 AM

#

Wdum by terrible clients?

#

@sterile wave

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 1:08 AM

#

The people you work for will most likely not be good

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 1:15 AM

#

What did you guys do in college to make some extra money on the side?

gilded valley Jun 15, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

Summer internships are good money. Normal part time jobs are good money for term time

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 2:49 AM

#

@vapid jay freelance

#

~~also scamming people~~

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

freelancing is pretty difficult to get into

#

you are competing on price with customers who want cheapest thing they can get

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

Hey guys! Speaking of freelance, I have a question: what do I do as a freelancer when a product of mine breaks after an API it uses makes a breaking change?

I imagine with contract jobs the answer is more straightforward since it's dictated by the contract itself, but when it comes to $200-500 freelance gigs -- there's rarely a contract involved (if we don't count the ToS of the platform, if using one, a contract).

There have been many cases when an independent product that my product relies on makes a breaking change (like a change in the REST API without backwards compatibility; a freemium service modifying the free tier to the point its unusable in the current form, etc), and I wasn't sure on how to act.

When the fix is easy to find and quick to implement -- I'll often do it for free (and warn the client that I'd probably have to charge them next time), but there are often changes in the authentication model that I'd need to look into (the implementation of which isn't much quicker either).

Is this a common thing with freelance gigs that don't include a contract, or am I doing something wrong? What would you advise I do in those situations?

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

people will hire local rather than the indian guy miles away

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

no, lack of contract isn't common with good freelancers

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

Most clients wouldn't want to bother with a contract for a $200-300 job I imagine when hundreds of other freelancers will do it without one

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

in most cases, I wouldn't fix it unless contract called for upkeep support, I would consider it fresh work

#

Sure, and let them suffering the risk of lack of contract

#

note, if you are going through 3rd party service, likely they have spelled out contracts with client

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

YouTube

CreativeMornings HQ

Mike Monteiro: F*ck You, Pay Me

The most popular CreativeMornings talk of all time, Mike Monteiro gives us some valuable advice on how to get paid for the work that you do.

Mike Monteiro at CreativeMornings San Francisco, March 2011. Free events like this one are hosted every month in dozens of cities. Disc...

▶ Play video

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:36 AM

#

Is a ToS considered a contract?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:36 AM

#

possibly

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

I did most of my freelance "under the table"

#

cash only bruh

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

Sure, but that's how you end up with lawyers and nightmare

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

of course most of mine were just quickies

#

make a website and say bye never to see them again

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

from the video: "Starting work without a contract is like putting a condom on after you've taken a home pregnancy test, it is just not going to help you at that point"

#

he's right

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

it was fine for me tbh

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

I mean, when a ToS says it can change whenever it wants and it's no one's responsibility to keep you updated -- having it be considered a contract would be pretty scary

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

Also, it's very cultural

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

sure i got cheated a few times but it was alright

#

I did it more for quick cash and experience

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

Who's in more danger if you're working without a contract, the client or the programmer?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

in United States, it would be crazy

#

both

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

@shadow moss i did it in the US

#

it was fine

#

if you do a larger project tho, get a contract

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

Again, it's fine until it's not

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

Aside from the client cheating you and not sending you the money, or the programmer running off without delivering the product

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

divadop, the situation you are describing

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

well they usually pay after the job is done

#

the way I did it is that I hosted it myself (the dev part) and then copied it over when I got paid

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

I've worked with development firms, I've seen lawsuits over "This isn't want we agreed on" "I got hacked because of your poor code" "3rd party change, site no longer works"

#

Contract covers you and frankly, it can help you

#

you look like professional

#

you are big person ready to play in big leagues

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

That's a good point, a lawsuit can ruin you even if you can prove you're in the right

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

if you do it "under the table" how they gonna prove its you who did it?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Thatcat, "Under the table" means shit in the United States

#

they knew who you were right?

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

not really

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

not really?

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

~~Yeah, they knew you were that cat~~

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

they have a name and thats about it

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

that's a ton

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

they paid me cash

#

no reciept or anything like that

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

few subpeonas and they got everything

#

unlikely, sure

#

possible, sure

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

not to mention the state I came from in the US, there were so many con people

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

It's like the martingale strategy. It works until it doesn't once and you're ruined

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

pretty sure half the places I made sites for were fake businesses

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

the state you came from in the US, what?

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

of course I dont recommend taking my bath

#

ya

#

Florida man

#

everyone scamming everyone

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

there are still courts in Florida

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

https://www.ftc.gov/policy/reports/policy-reports/commission-staff-reports/consumer-sentinel-network-data-book-2017/state-rankings-fraud-other

Federal Trade Commission

Consumer Sentinel Network Data Book 2017: State Rankings: Fraud and...

The official website of the Federal Trade Commission, protecting America’s consumers for over 100 years.

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

How do you write contracts as an independent freelancer? Do you use a template you've written from scratch? A template from experienced friends? A template developed by your lawyer?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

Florida is likely due to large senior citizens

#

Any of those work

#

obviously a lawyer is best

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

^

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

BTW, you can just have a boilerplate contract

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

get a lawyer if you can

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

Anything in writing is better then nothing

teal flax Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

probably those in ascending order of effectiveness

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:46 AM

#

even if it's, when work is finished, it's considered finished with zero warranty given to future operation of product

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

How would you guys personally go about it? I'm definitely not looking into writing a custom contract for any projects below 4 digits, so I'll probably need a few templates sooner than later

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:48 AM

#

if you are getting seriously into it, at some point, lawyer

#

or maybe something like legalzoom, I haven't looked into it

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:48 AM

#

Instead of a contract, for now I just avoid voice calls (or record them), have a lot of situations described in my FAQ (unfortunately not in legal terms though so I'm sure any half decent lawyer could poke gigantic holes in those) and just basically discuss the terms in messages with the clients

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:48 AM

#

if you stay under 5000, you stay in small claims court which is easier

#

Sure, I get dropping 1000 on lawyer for a contract is crazy but at some point, it will make sense

#

and obviously contract would be boilerplate

#

I divadop will design the following software to do X, Y, Z. Following Money will be paid X and Y. Customer is responsible for hosting of said software and without further support contract, once software is considered delivered by final payment being made, no further warranty of software operation will be delivered

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

Yeah, I'm sure it's worth it. I'll stick to my method for now (at least for 3 figure projects) and hope not many capable of hiring a lawyer to file a lawsuit over a $500 project is buying services on Fiverr (which is where I get my 3 figure projects, don't feel like hunting for them)

How does signing contracts work online, by the way? Do I literally just send them scanned copies of the contract, they sign it and scan it, or do people usually use online services for that?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

fiverr is probably different

#

since you technically contract to fiverr and they contract to client

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

At worst I imagine Fiverr will just force me to refund the client over filing me a lawsuit, so the risks don't seem that high

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:55 AM

#

can't really sue you, they would have to sue fiverr most likely

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:56 AM

#

Yeah, I'll just write a few clauses in my FAQ in case I'm dealing with a troublesome client to cover stuff like third parties making breaking changes to a product that my product uses

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:56 AM

#

with fiverr I wouldn't really bother

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

Bother with what, a contract, or even writing a few clauses like that in a FAQ?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

either

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

Yeah, fair enough lol. Thanks for the advice!

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:58 AM

#

because again, you are contracted to Fiverr

#

and your contract with fiverr basically says "LOLZ, you are our bitch"

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 3:59 AM

#

Yep lmao

#

They can ban you anytime for anything too and withhold your funds. Only way out of it is just making a lot of noise and hoping they'll opt to avoid the bad publicity

#

That's what usually happens, anyway

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:00 AM

#

Upwork is no better

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

I definitely agree, it's probably the same with other similar services too

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

if you just start out with freelance do it locally

#

best way imo

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

They're the judge, jury and executioner

#

if you just start out with freelance do it locally
There are many benefits to that, sure. Honestly, just do both.
The pay isn't as good with local work considering the average monthly income here is around $300, but it opens up way more opportunities than freelance work with clients you'll usually not cross paths with again

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

BTW, my advice changes if you are not American

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

Hello

#

Can anyone help me

#

With my python

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

Yeah, naturally, different laws and all. But I'd say it's still generally solid, so thank you!

#

Can anyone help me
With my python
that sounds so wrong

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

less lawsuit happy in other places

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

??

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

Aligg, not here, this is #career-advice

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

Where then?

#

No Category:
  help  Shows this message
  texts 

Type !help command for more info on a command.
You can also type !help category for more info on a category.

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

<@&267629731250176001> ^

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

Lol, damn

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

Idk wtf is this

open patio Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

i thought we banned them lol

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

Can anyone dm help

mint citrus Jun 15, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

bancat

vapid mesa Jun 15, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

#❓｜how-to-get-help @vapid jay

open patio Jun 15, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

!sban 255368147543130112 self bot. evidence here.

inner wrenBOT Jun 15, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

:ok_hand: applied ban to @wispy jetty permanently.

orchid thorn Jun 15, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

Sban thinkmon
Sorry, wrong channel to discuss about this

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 12:17 PM

#

Which site do i start freelance if i don't have a university diploma?

#

and don't have a creditcard yet

#

cuz i am not old enough yet.

coarse bolt Jun 15, 2020, 12:32 PM

#

@vapid jay If you have a bank account you can try applying to arc.dev

#

https://arc.dev

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 12:33 PM

#

ooh never heard of it.

#

do you have experience with it @coarse bolt

coarse bolt Jun 15, 2020, 12:51 PM

#

Yup

#

See https://www.codementor.io/@saurabhchaturvedi63

#

https://arc.dev/@saurabhchaturvedi63 That's my profile

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

your an expert!

coarse bolt Jun 15, 2020, 1:11 PM

#

Still learning, I'd say I'm an intermediate 😄

vapid jay Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM

#

duuude than if i consider myself somewhat intermediate. i am no intermediate at all😂

#

LOL no i'm not

leaden jasper Jun 15, 2020, 3:52 PM

#

Question for y'all who code for a living. Someone asks you to scope out tasks and how much time/money it'll take to complete tasks for a coding project. How do you start trying to put that together/calculating that?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

Past experience and a lot of lying

leaden jasper Jun 15, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

Well I'm wondering to what level of detail you'd provide tasking for and time estimates for. Do you break it down by just accomplishing the requirements/goals? Do you break it down into subgoals/further milestones?

Also generally how much troubleshooting padding to build in since part of what the project involves it is a bit unknown.

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

depends on what people want

#

project estimating is generally not something developers care to do

#

so let whatever paper pusher is driving set the standards

#

most of time, we break it down in small enough bites for scrum master to be happy then throw whatever proper sounding time at it

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

@leaden jasper Generally I calculate in my head everything that would have to be done, then I focus on the parts that I'm not 100% sure how to do off the top of my head and go investigate what that will entail. Then I make a spectrum of worst case to best case for each task and decide how to communicate that depending on the circumstance.

glossy pecan Jun 15, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

estimations are more art than science, which is why fixed-cost projects notoriously get derailed

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Zoidfarb. Researching should be estimated and planned for as well

#

And so much can derail project, people getting sick, injured, having kids or just quitting

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

@shadow moss Researching should be done before you start a project

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

@wheat oxide at most companies, they want to know how long it takes to research because they want to know if committing to new tech is worthwhile

#

and yes, research is first task but it's still a task that should be "estimated"

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

@shadow moss I don't think you can make that generalization, no.

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

Really, almost every company I've been at, they want estimates for business reasons and research is 100% work activity they want to account for

covert cliff Jun 15, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

Hello, am here
Any interns available for python developers

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

depends on where you are located adicherla

#

look online

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

@shadow moss Research should happens before a project begins, which means it's generally not part of a project's timeline. Of course our strategies may differ given that yours involves lying.

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

so where do you charge that estimating towards?

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

@shadow moss It varies, of course. If you're doing contracting work, it'd be considered overhead.

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

I think Rabbit here speaks more from the corporate viewpoint rather than concracting

#

Past experience and a lot of lying
also I think this is partially a pun 🙂

wheat oxide Jun 15, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

@marsh wind In which case it might be considered part of the planning budget. It varies.

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

I do come from corporate more then contracting but contracting was filled full of hour inflation as well

#

in corporate world, I see estimating and time tracking to be biggest waste of everyone time

#

so lying part came from few people give honest answers because entire process is broken

obsidian kraken Jun 15, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

Is there anywhere on here where i can hire developers?

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

no

slate cave Jun 15, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

Hey guys, so Im starting to apply to colleges and my GPA isn't the best (3.8 weighted), but I have a big project related to programming which i've made a lot of money, and a social media with it. overall it's just a company which ive started around a year ago (im 16 now). im just curious if its worth applying to good schools like MIT or Georgia Tech with the chance for my project to carry me into the school and accomodate for my low GPA

#

Just @ me if you have an answer 🙂

#

My social media has around 10k + followers and also ive made over 10-20k with the company

shadow moss Jun 15, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

ice, probably not

#

it's impressive but it's not proof you could keep up with workload, though 3.8 generally isn't considered terrible

#

Apply, MIT is long shot, GT may not be terrible, truth is, if you are starting your own software company, it doesn't matter where you go to school

mild zenith Jun 15, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

@obsidian kraken No but if you look in the description for this channel (the bar at the very top) we do have a couple links that might help you.

dark salmon Jun 15, 2020, 8:28 PM

#

can anyone review my resume here? i am looking for new grad roles. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIud2vQO0E-fsqp08hn6ZnEH7QxQQkvL/view) I am not from a CS major.

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 10:39 PM

#

Given the current global circumstances, that’s probably a pipe dream

#

^

#

I made the mistake of generalizing and nearly ducked out when I realized how much more I need to do

#

You’d be kind of hard pressed to find a junior position only 6 months in

#

Ah

#

Again it’s probably gonna be REALLY hard unless you’ve got a really good resume/portfolio to you up

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

also remote for junior can be quite hard

#

it's true that recent events are re-shaping perception on remote

#

oh

#

well.... problem with upwork/fiverrr/etc is that you end up completing with lowest bidders from cheap countries

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

Man that’s rough

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

exactly. That what makes it is tough to start in freelance if you live in expensive country and you don't have solid experineced to justify your "elevated" rates

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

I make more than that just as a security guard <:3

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

well don't compare states/UK or north EU to some less rich ones like Moldovia, Sloveny, Croatia etc

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

I’m sorry if I did

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

nah I just meant that it is not valid to compare 700$ months there as jr dev and sec guard in LA

white karma Jun 15, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

It might be worth your while trying to work with some american companies remote

#

Once you’ve got your skills and portfolio I mean

marsh wind Jun 15, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

in Ukraine a friend's of mine first jr dev job was like 450-500$ so 🤷‍♂️

#

but at least dev jobs can scale up a lot even in those countries

#

unlike many other jobs

#

now he makes 5k$/month still living in same city 😅

#

when you get like 2+ yrs of experience your value goes up a lot and you can start to make companies bid against each other for you

#

AFAIK portfolio is what gets you first job, maybe second. After it's experience mostly, as normally you can't simply show your work at a company to others

#

like ofc it's cool if while doing main job you also can work on side projects, especially if you can contribute to some meaningfull open source projects

glacial ocean Jun 16, 2020, 12:18 AM

#

My current job is about to get terminated due them not offering remote positions. Thinking of heading away from my current background (Digital Forensics/Cyber) into python as I tend to end up doing R&D. Any advice on how to break into programming as a full time gig or should I still follow the InfoSec/Cyber money?

shadow moss Jun 16, 2020, 12:31 AM

#

keep with InfoSec/Cyber

#

Python as sole language isn't really a strategy.

sleek field Jun 16, 2020, 12:53 AM

#

What are good sites to offer freelance on for < 18s?

obsidian acorn Jun 16, 2020, 12:54 AM

#

@glacial ocean I would suggest doing exactly what you want to do. Having both cyber & python are not to far from each other, particularly, when you can use python as part of your cyber practices. Python Engineering makes good money as well. And having multiple things to land on is not a bad idea at all.

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

Does anyone here look at code samples from potential hires? I'm not sure what to about my projects

This company is asking for people who understand some more advanced concepts and they say they would love to talk about any projects we have, so I assume they want to see examples of some of what they're asking for

#

It's kind of hard to write super easy to read and understand code though once you start getting into these features. At least IMO

Should I just say fuck it and do a basic easy to understand version and a fun one as well so I can show them things?

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

I think the answer depends a lot on exactly what they asked for.

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:12 AM

#

📎 Screenshot_20200615-211144.png

#

The latter part is why I eat to go crazy and have fun with stuff. Finally, somebody else will see what I write :'(

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:14 AM

#

With that wording, I don't think they're looking for code snippets that illustrate each of those things, just that you're able to talk about them in an interview. I think for the "completed projects" they're just looking for something large enough to show how you build and organize larger projects.

#

preferably larger projects in Haskell, since it will help to prove whether you know how to write something in Haskell in a way that other Haskell programmers can understand, which speaks to your understanding of Haskell idioms and design patterns.

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:19 AM

#

You're probably right. That's kind of a buzz kill though

Damn, that makes me what to say if they ask about design decisions. Most of them have basically been that this is too small scale to care

Is that bad? TBH, I don't know what these people want

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:21 AM

#

I just finished my first day as an IT intern and I feel super overwhelmed. I totally don't understand the project at all (it's about writing API calls to fetch data from google cloud)
whereas I only have a basic understanding of things like git, python (very extensive knowledge of DS and algorithms though from interview prep), linux, and using a remote desktop
and i just feel super overwhelmed by their expectations and idk what to do
I dont even know how I'm gonna start to write this code that my manager wants me to write (which he will get more into tomorrow)
which makes me feel really anxious and lost
can anyone offer me some help or guidance?

#

This is my first internship and im a rising junior

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:21 AM

#

paid internship?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:21 AM

#

Correct

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:22 AM

#

first job in industry?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:22 AM

#

Yes

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:23 AM

#

don't sweat it. they figured out what you could and couldn't do in an interview, they're not really expecting for you to be tremendously helpful to the company, and they'll give you help and support so that you can learn things.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:23 AM

#

it seems my manager expected me to have prior experience working at synopsys since i got a referral from their coworker

#

i told them in a meeting a week ago its my first internship and today he thought i interned at the company already last year

#

and i had to repeat that i was a first-timer

#

it also doesnt help that he goes very fast and didnt explain too well

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:24 AM

#

well, that's... not great, but that's their own miscommunication. that may just mean that he'll need to slow things down a bit.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:24 AM

#

so im just dreading the moments i have to do things by myself and will inevitably get very stuck

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

but, really: no one expects you to be able to be super independent as an intern. calm down, do your best, and ask questions when you get lost.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

it also hurt a lot that its virtual so

#

it feels very distant and impersonal

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

Ask good questions though

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

and when you're alone you're truly alone since ur not at the office

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

Not just any question

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:26 AM

#

@indigo sigil any company communication channels you've been invited to? Instant messaging, slack, anything like that?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:27 AM

#

Yeah theres an intern group

#

and i can message my manager

#

but the intern group literally everyone introduces themselves and its been radio silence since

#

🤦‍♂️

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:27 AM

#

how many interns are there in it?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:27 AM

#

100 perhaps

#

yeah, around that

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

whoa, big company 😄

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

but of course most arent IT/cs/software and stuff

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

how likely do you think it is that you're the most lost person in that group of 100?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

probably not

#

but i wont ever meet them lol

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

maybe, but you can still form relationships.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:28 AM

#

so its not like i can compare

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:29 AM

#

don't get me wrong, 100% virtual is definitely harder, and you need to put more work into building relationships and communicating. But, you can probably get some support there.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:29 AM

#

but regardless, ive been watching a lot of guides to brush up on apis, git and stuff

#

i have a very specific quesiton though if anyone can help

#

ill ask in # help

#

anyways i just feel very overwhelmed

#

i just wish i had a more supportive manager but

#

it is what it is /;

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:31 AM

#

@grim urchin bigger projects are better, but really anything that helps prove a bit of dedication - that you were able to pick some project and stick with it for more than a few days and keep building on your own work - is good from the projects pov, imho

#

@indigo sigil remember that he may be as overwhelmed as you are, and things may settle in a day or so.

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:33 AM

#

Yeah, I've got a things I can show them. Haskell is the love of my life though, getting too excited may be the issue here lol

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:34 AM

#

is it bad that im a junior and have absolutelyno clue what haskell is?

#

besides that its probably a language

#

🤦‍♂️

grim urchin Jun 16, 2020, 2:34 AM

#

Yeah, it's a language. 100% unrelated to Python :P

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:36 AM

#

@indigo sigil it's also possible that your manager misjudged your skills initially, and will need to take things slower or explain things more thoroughly. That's also fine. Again, at this point, the entire reason they brought you in is is to build a relationship with you in the hopes that they can hire you for a full-time job after college if you turn out to be a good fit. Interns aren't supposed to be helpful for the company (in fact, for unpaid internships it's a requirement that the intern isn't replacing any existing employee's work)

#

@grim urchin enthusiasm is good 🙂

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:37 AM

#

i see... i get your point and appreciate the discussion

#

but im not unpaid is the thing

#

feels like im getting pretty decent compensation too, in fact

#

so wouldnt they have some kind of standard they would hold me to?

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:40 AM

#

basically? no. not really, at least. It's nearly impossible to get fired from an internship for low performance, from everything I've ever seen.

#

it's understood that the primary purpose of an internship is for you to learn, and the benefit that the company gets out of it is building a relationship with you and improving their access to you once you're more skilled. it also helps that they're most likely paying you substantially less than even their entry level employees, so anything that you can deliver is basically a bonus

#

Is this US, by the way? I've been assuming, but I should probably confirm that.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 2:42 AM

#

Yes.

#

Bay area (now virtual)

summer roost Jun 16, 2020, 2:45 AM

#

shrug yeah. I think you're worrying too much. It's really way too early to know if it'll be a good or bad experience.

#

I'm happy to jump with you over to one of the off-topic channels if you want to talk about what you're being asked to do, and see if I can help clear anything up for you.

#

ping me in #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare if you'd like

pulsar drum Jun 16, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

Probably cause you're interested, and that's good.

unkempt crypt Jun 16, 2020, 6:31 AM

#

it's part of being a developer/programmer

#

No, if you're really interested you should start reading a bit and learning the basics, Python is a good language to start learning to code, maybe even start with just pseudo-code just to get the idea and basic concepts of programming

#

There are a lot of courses or good videos online that teach for the love of it, you just have to find them

#

I'm of the mind that almost pro doesn't exist in our field, since tech always changes and we learn new things every day, we always need to learn more stuff that comes out, you got to develop a autodidact's mind in my opinion.

vast shoal Jun 16, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

Even if that's true, there are certain core skills and concepts that are more or less timeless and underpin a lot of the new tech that comes out on a regular basis.

#

You certainly do need to be an autodidact and keep up with the times, but being able to do that is also a learned skill.

unkempt crypt Jun 16, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

Yes, that is true. As well as some companies don't even try to keep up with tech sometimes just because of the cost it could bring, so they stay with what they have.

mint citrus Jun 16, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

kinda what my company is doing

#

they complain over 30 bucks a month

unkempt crypt Jun 16, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

Hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it lol

mint citrus Jun 16, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

it is broke tho

#

thats the problem

unkempt crypt Jun 16, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

Yeah, most deprecated systems and codes are really damaging some part of company software, but trying to explain that to the boss could be hard (Mind you I'm speaking of third party knowledge atm)

#

out of*

vapid jay Jun 16, 2020, 10:07 AM

#

I'm just about to start a new job in machine learning in the public sector, previously I've only worked in the private sector. Anyone worked in both and can give me some heads up on what I should expect?

#

Yes please from personal experience

vapid jay Jun 16, 2020, 10:57 AM

#

Oh public sector is government jobs and private is private companies @vapid jay

#

I was wondering about the work differences, what differences to expect while in work

sterile wave Jun 16, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

yeah private sector is generally higher paying

vast shoal Jun 16, 2020, 11:05 AM

#

@vapid jay Since this is specifically about a machine learning position, you might also want to try asking in #data-science-and-ml.

vapid jay Jun 16, 2020, 11:05 AM

#

Okay, I'm based in the UK

#

I think in the UK public sector has a higher mean salary than private but way lower max salaries

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 12:22 PM

#

UK public sector salaries are pretty not good

#

At least for techy roles

#

Civil service fast track is the best common entry method, and it's not great compared to private sector options

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 6:16 PM

#

Strange question but what does it mean if my manager/mentor sometimes puts ".." at the end?

#

Sometimes he sends a separate mesage just for the ".."

#

i.e.

that's fine
meet later
..

marsh wind Jun 16, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

most likely a weird habit.

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

Are you sure that's not Gmail or something hiding his signature? Seems super weird

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 6:19 PM

#

No it's a microsoft team

#

@marsh wind I figure

#

Just very strange lol

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 6:20 PM

#

Why don't you ask him?

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 6:21 PM

#

Kind of awkward to bring up

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

"yo Greg, weird question, but what's with the '..' you occasionally send?" doesn't seem that awkward. Depends on culture I guess

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

He's my mentor and im just a lowly intern lol

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

It's not exactly rude to ask though. Seems better to ask than not ask to me at least

shadow moss Jun 16, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

some people do it for seperation

#

like in IRC when it was people talking, it would help them out seeing where they stopped talking and others began

#

<IRCUser1>That's fine to meet later
<IRCUser1>Sounds good
<IRCUser1>...
<IRCUser2>Awesome```

frozen vigil Jun 16, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

what is an intern?

gilded valley Jun 16, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

Temporary employee, usually a student

glacial ocean Jun 16, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

@obsidian acorn @shadow moss Thank you for the advice!

unkempt crypt Jun 16, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

@vapid jay If i may ask, what where you doing in the Machine learning job? I'm a recent graduate from a CS career and focused most of it on learning ML since that was the area that i enjoyed the most, I'm trying to understand what types of jobs and positions there might for someone like me, it seems kind of overwhelming since most job positions (at least in the private sector, mind you this is Mexico) are more focused to SE.

indigo sigil Jun 16, 2020, 10:06 PM

#

oh my god my manager just fixed my pycharm python version and i restarted pycharm and now its back to 2.7

#

he did some complex ass stuff that theres no way i can replicate now what do i do

#

i wanna die

#

grumpchib

crude crown Jun 16, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

just talk with him

#

ask him to do it slowly

#

in order for you to assimilate that

vast shoal Jun 16, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

I don't think this has anything to do with the topic of this channel.

crude crown Jun 16, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

eh true.

mortal wedge Jun 16, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

What is the topic of the channel?

crude crown Jun 16, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

basically career development/management

#

in the context of jobs where Python is used.

vast shoal Jun 16, 2020, 10:24 PM

#

Questions and discussions about the Python software developer industry, job applications, resumes, etc.

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:25 AM

#

hi there, im 16 right now and have been programming in Python for about 2 years now as well as other langs (C, ASM, Lua), and im currently trying to find a summer job. is a low level position at a place like IBM feasible or insane?

#

oh also OpenQASM

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:25 AM

#

just for the summer?

#

maybe an internship

#

but not a job

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:26 AM

#

i mean something so that my cv doesnt just say "im a self taught programmer who is a perfectionist so i have nothing on my github"

#

a starting point\

#

and alright that's what i was expecting

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:26 AM

#

wat

#

put stuff on your github

#

make your own projects

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

im doing that now, im making my own text editor to put up there

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

people want to see people who are self motivated to do stuff

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

gj

#

maybe try doing stuff like ml

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

ive done a bit with keras

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

ml?

#

keras?

#

what all these news kids talking about blobcatnotlikethis

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

made a RNN to spam random twitter insanity

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

Machine Learning

#

AI

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

keras is a sub library of tensorflow

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

oh

#

everyone doing AI now

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

the main utility used in ml now

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

whatever i've done in keras is just copying people on internet

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:28 AM

#

invented by google and open source so basically an oxymoron

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

and maybe made a super small linear model of my own

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

im aware of tensorflow

#

i installed it once

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

gud

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

and then didnt get it to work so i gave up

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

i dont do too much due to the fact that im only starting pre-calc this year

frozen vigil Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

i just hate the fact most tutorials are 1.14, and don't work for 2

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:30 AM

#

id rather learn more linear algebra first

#

what qualifies someone to call themself a full stack developer

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:32 AM

#

the do both backend and frontend

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:33 AM

#

ive made some gui's and one terrible looking website but have done some ||javascript|| and ||php||

#

most of my stuff is command line based

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:33 AM

#

i think fullstack is more a web dev term

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:34 AM

#

thats what i was thinking

#

also sorry this is very off topic, but i saw the german flag so im curious, have you heard of/listened to Rammstein

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:35 AM

#

blobrollingeyes

#

i have heard but not my style

naive kraken Jun 17, 2020, 5:35 AM

#

ah thats the reaction ive gotten from most german people

#

very understandable

mint citrus Jun 17, 2020, 5:36 AM

#

German music is not that great

hushed jungle Jun 17, 2020, 12:33 PM

#

What do you guys think about bootcamps? Looking to do a Data science immersive.

gilded valley Jun 17, 2020, 12:36 PM

#

For data science, employers will often want a degree and won't care all that much for bootcamps

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

but you should try to research that fact with respect to local culture

#

some places, employers can take into account your certifciates, bootcamps etc

#

sometimes they won't give a damn

empty sentinel Jun 17, 2020, 1:59 PM

#

I was a tech leader, the first one in a data team, hiring and selecting another people (from me to 7 people in 2 yrs), in my last job

The analysts and scientists have degrees in economics, statistics, chemical engineering, etc. I looked for simple experiences like Kaggle challenges and so on. They flourished very fast, and preferred R and Excel (but I converted to py, power bi, metabase :D)

For data engineering I looked for python, pandas, sql, pyspark, handling big databases more than a degree. I converted a PHP developer just because he also handled a lot of database tasks.

But my ex-company was a small bussiness with a tech team of 20.

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

if anyone is in academia , is simulation theory especially with python in demand ?

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

what exactly do you mean under simulation theory?

#

also, would you be so kind to change your nickname for this server to make it easily clickable and mentionable?

#

@vapid jay

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

changed

mild zenith Jun 17, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

Cheers. Makes life easier

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

thanks! so what exactly is simulation theory you mentioned

mild zenith Jun 17, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

Yeah was a bit funky

📎 unknown.png

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

for me it looke differently

#

anyway, back on topic

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

thanks! so what exactly is simulation theory you mentioned
@marsh wind Physics based simulation for example , (in words , computation physics)

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

ok, right.

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

Like surrogate models and such stuff

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

in academia there is a lot of those

#

but python is not the primary tool

#

it can be used as a wrapper

#

for automation

#

etc

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

i see . So there is a scope for such work ?

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

well it depends on what's your goal there

#

it's kinda unlikely that you will only ever use python if you want to do computational physics

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

So I should venture into other industry grade tools per say (?)

#

I am guessing C , C++ ?

#

because of speed

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

C/Fortran

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

alright

#

Thanks for the info !

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

So I should venture into other industry grade tools per say (?)
@vapid jay a sidenote though - most likely it's not that you venture into them now, but you chose a topic of interest, and get into some research internship in that topic and use the tools that are used in specifi group

#

because most likely tools/language would be dictate by more senior research stuff in the group where you end up

vapid jay Jun 17, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

👍

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

although academic career path is.... well not a dead-end but sometimes close to it 🙂 @vapid jay

past crow Jun 17, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

can one get a job without a CS degree?

#

i'm currently in High School, planning on majoring in aerospace engineering: which really doesn't leave me any time for a double major.

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

yes, check for example a reddit post in pinned message by one of PyDis members

past crow Jun 17, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

I'm learning python rn as it applies for aerospace but was hoping it keeps my career options open yk?

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

well yeah. Degree does not excplicitly limit your career options

leaden jasper Jun 17, 2020, 6:42 PM

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A few aerospace people I know have done a heavy focus on modeling and sim tasks/research so they have a very strong background with coding. Having projects that show cases their strong coding skills has allowed them to work on stuff they wouldn't with just an aerospace degree.

past crow Jun 17, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

oooh, that's good to hear.

#

in python or?

leaden jasper Jun 17, 2020, 6:45 PM

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Not python unless they were doing a quick data analysis. I don't remember what specific software or languages, but I know a lot of MATLAB, some R, and if it's very heavy simulation stuff, Fortran.

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

programming language is first of all a tool to do the job. If you are really profficient with one language it's likely that you can convnce people that you can pick up other lanugages

#

not to say it will be easy to go from python to, say, C++/Fortran

white karma Jun 17, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

As long as it’s doable you’ll find a way

past crow Jun 17, 2020, 6:55 PM

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that's a good question, like, i'm learning rn completely self taught via googling

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is there a specific point where I know im capable in python (not close yet) 😛

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

thats fine. I'd imagine though that in aerospace major you would learn some programming too

#

there is no 'point', more like indications

white karma Jun 17, 2020, 6:59 PM

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One day it’s all just gonna click

past crow Jun 17, 2020, 7:01 PM

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i'm putting in the work now then 😛

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@marsh wind yup, I will be...i just wanna get a head start

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how'd yall learn if you dont mind me asking

white karma Jun 17, 2020, 9:46 PM

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Started with code academy, then moved onto “Automate The Boring Stuff”

marsh wind Jun 17, 2020, 10:43 PM

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that is kinda not permitted here

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see the channel topic @raven owl

molten spoke Jun 17, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Hey @raven owl, this channel is not for recruitment. Please see rule 6

#

!rule 6

inner wrenBOT Jun 17, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be showcased in #show-your-projects.

hearty crow Jun 18, 2020, 2:43 AM

#

what do you think about this learning path (beginner- intermediate level). Is by tackling those I would be comfortable enough like to focus on webscrapping and some automation and maybe some gaming projects? before deciding to either move on to data science or some other niche

📎 unknown.png

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 3:08 AM

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Not directly for a career, but a resume

#

I believe you can get python programmer 'certification' by taking a test online or at a center by this company.. lemme find the name

#

It's called 'Python Institute'

#

Of course I guess the only shot i'll have is their Entry-Level certification before the end of 11th grade, which is next year for me

#

i just thought it would seem good on the resume since i'm most likely applying to mechanical or software engineering

#

https://pythoninstitute.org/certification/

Python Institute

Maciek

Python Certifications

#

any of you let me know if you think this is a good idea!

radiant moon Jun 18, 2020, 3:40 AM

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I don't know.

twilit dock Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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Certifications aren't real big in the coding world

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you can pass a test but still be a shitty coder

radiant moon Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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Where I work, we hire based on the interview, but we only get the resume once HR has passed it to us, and they might pay attention to certifications.

woeful spruce Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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you are in the 11th grade and are already worried about your resume?

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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I'm a rising sophomore lol

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*Junior

twilit dock Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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It won't help you get into college

woeful spruce Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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it is like we have Zuckerberg's on our Discord

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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not a sophomore

woeful spruce Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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please hire me 10 years from now

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😁

twilit dock Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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Zuckerburg just got lucky and stole someones good idea

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 3:41 AM

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I know it won't help me, just wanted it as an ec

#

please hire me 10 years from now
@woeful spruce sure

twilit dock Jun 18, 2020, 3:42 AM

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If you made something with python that other people used then that would go much farther than a cert

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next time you make a python script to solve an issue, write some documentation and post it on github

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

That's a good idea

#

Will do, thanks

woeful spruce Jun 18, 2020, 3:50 AM

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if you are in grade 11...

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....you have a lot of time to set yourself up for success

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you have all the free time in the world to work on projects for your portfolio

autumn badger Jun 18, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

Hi All! I currently work in mental health and I want to incorporate programming with mental health somehow. I haven't really found anything on google that really points me in a direction that can really help me. I am hoping this group can give me some pointers. The only thing I really found helpful at this point is Python is a hot language and it's pretty well used in medical world. Any advice would be helpful.

frozen vigil Jun 18, 2020, 6:43 AM

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god ubuntu making your resume small

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and i don't understand what resume is

fiery solar Jun 18, 2020, 12:20 PM

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hey guys can someone help me fix this line If I could email you my two resume's for feedback that would be amazing! and potentially we could have coffee down the road. im having a rough morning and cant sentence...

rustic schooner Jun 18, 2020, 12:55 PM

#

Maybe;
I would love to have some feedback from you on my two resume’s, which I could send you by email. We also could have a cup of coffee down the road if you would like.

But im no expert jn making sentences either
@fiery solar

radiant moon Jun 18, 2020, 12:58 PM

#

nix the apostrophe in resume's and you're fine

vast shoal Jun 18, 2020, 1:41 PM

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I would love to have some feedback from you on my two resumes, which I could send you by email. We could also have a cup of coffee down the road if you'd like.

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 4:08 PM

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Most people who frequent this channel already reviewed your resume at least once :)

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 4:09 PM

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how many of those projects are really yours and how many were copy/paste?

lapis wind Jun 18, 2020, 4:25 PM

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Oh i remember you

#

You were that guy who made that Dermatol app that like 4 of us told you was a bit sketch with the name

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 4:32 PM

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you wanted an opinion, mine is it looks fake

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or overinflated at least

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yeah but there are dozens of medium posts on all those things

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i'm much more interested in someone doing something original

white karma Jun 18, 2020, 4:36 PM

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I mean good luck with that

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 4:36 PM

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nah it's your job to tell me why I should care about what you're doing

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 4:52 PM

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obviously i'm talking from the perspective of a potential employer

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i don't give a shit what you do with your resume

#

but actually, you asked multiple times here

#

sounds like you're a bit triggered

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 5:03 PM

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oh this started again

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

look they might not be literally copy pasted. but you definitely copied those ideas from other peoples projects

#

let me guess, you follow siraj raval?

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

try to stay wholesome guys, you're much more persuasive when you're calm

#

and also bear in mind that at some point this discussion will probably become offtopic

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 5:05 PM

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yeah i'm done. anyway good luck, it is still impressive for someone in high school

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 5:06 PM

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eh it might make it seem like you have less initiative i suppose

digital fjord Jun 18, 2020, 5:06 PM

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there are only so many unique projects you can do. Nothing wrong with doing the same thing/similar as someone else

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 5:06 PM

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yeah inspiration is fine, but if it looks like you just do everything someone else does it looks like you're just trying to boost your CV

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

Hello people 🙂 I need some advice, with getting first job.

#

Ive graduated recently with a first class honours in CS. I did internship abroad in different country in the field of IT (although wasn't development). I have a what seems to me as a decent github (20 repositories with a range of languages, and with the past 7/8 weeks with all green for daily contribution). I am proficient in java/python/laravel/matlab/javascript and experience of other tools like SQL. My thesis was in field of machine learning/data science which i received very high grade on. I have develop web application for charity also, and currently develop and maintain a discord bot. But i have maybe applied to 50+ jobs some are just user support roles as well, and still nobody reply back to me with oppurtunity. What am i doing wrong? Can someone advice please?

#

Like are companies just false advertising? Nobody even reply to me saying you are unsuccesfull or anything

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 7:40 PM

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have you had any internships or similar

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 7:40 PM

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Yes internship i did international

sterile wave Jun 18, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

and what kind of thing are you applying for

#

ah sorry i misread that as a job

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like other work

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 7:41 PM

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I want role as graduate software/web developer.

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That is my preffered role, but as i say for now because need job i will apply for almost anythin, even if it is like Technician role.

#

I have friends who i would do all the coding for in university (i know this is not good to do), and they dont even know basic programming , and they all have job.

#

I dont understand what is im doing wrong.

#

How? I have everything on there also. All my skills/experience.

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apart from my internship who will vouch for me, how i supposed to get referrals/connection with no industry experience or as a graduate?

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I have github activity and open respositiories

#

Can someone look at my cv here? any chance?

devout niche Jun 18, 2020, 8:01 PM

#

Any thoughts on my web dev resume? Will mostly be applying for frontend positions I think

📎 unknown.png

potent apex Jun 18, 2020, 8:02 PM

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seems good to me, but i'm not even out of high school yet

#

still it looks very cool lol

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especially the COVID-19 tracker

devout niche Jun 18, 2020, 8:07 PM

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lol thansk

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 8:24 PM

#

Cashier experience is 100% relevant and should 100% be included

#

At least in the uk

#

pretty naive way of phrasing it

#

Dealing with customers is good experience at dealing with people, which is very important for writing code. The ability to work consistently is testament that someone without more relevant experience can do exactly that; work consistently. It gives interviewers something to talk about in interviews, gives them a hook to find out more about you

#

This also isn't just my opinion, in multiple interviews I've talked about delivering pizza for Dominos

#

so clearly a lot of companies thinks it holds some merit

#

ah yes

#

an image of some random article

#

yes, it was random. Thank you for providing a link

#

I'll rephrase my position then. I've talked about non software experiences in interviews, and have included non software work on my resume - if you're just starting out, I'd reccomend including it. That's also the advice I've heard from my university, and from early careers specialists at a couple of megacorps

devout niche Jun 18, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

@vapid jay thanks for the tips, I'll do all that. Idk about work exp tho there seems to be some conflicting opinions there lol. Maybe I'll leave it on for now

#

I do have personal projects too which are honestly better than the last one so I'll swap that one

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:11 PM

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If it's not documented online somewhere it's imaginary imo.
Charlie quoted more than just University as the source lol

#

also not everything written out there applies everywhere. Referrals and connections are great thing to have but not everyone got them or have what it takes to get early on (not in the sense that they are bad, but there are people who are inherently shy and have not yet developed skills to network good enough to get a job with that)

#

Like there are people/articles that'd say to not waste time applying to jobs via linkedIn (especially things like "easy apply" where it is bare resume and contact details)/job boards as you will never get the job that way

#

but that is not true so 🤷‍♂️

#

what I am saying is that the fact they go into details does not mean that what they claim is true and/or applies to every country/city/situation

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

honestly i'm with charlie here. putting cashier is absolutely necessary if you don't have a lot of other stuff. it's definitely not just handling money/scanning items. there is a lot more to it, but it doesn't seem like you'd understand.

working in a group is great for showing teamwork, but cashier you're dealing with people who you don't know, have to deal with in a respectable manner.

i'll be honest mate, maybe working as a cashier for a year, will do you good

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

well there is no reasoning it is not true because you can get job via linekding applys

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

what do you do egyptian prince?

#

where are you at currently in life? i see you asking for resume help every few days.

#

no, you said not to include it

#

i didnt miss the point, you did

rapid harbor Jun 18, 2020, 9:20 PM

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right

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:20 PM

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that working as a cashier has transferrable skills

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no i'm not

rapid harbor Jun 18, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

👀

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

then how is it not relevant?

#

brah you're going back on what you're saying

rapid harbor Jun 18, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/minions-blah-blah-blah-roll-eyes-eyeroll-whatever-gif-16216173

Tenor

#

https://tenor.com/view/whatever-eye-roll-mila-stauffer-gif-15655977

Tenor

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

jesus that link again. i've spoken to people who hire, companies have come in and given talks on what they look for

#

@rapid harbor please stop, it's not helpful at all

rapid harbor Jun 18, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

sry

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

You don't need to know. This isn't about you

#

You can think whatever you like. Someone else asked

#

that doesn't mean anything, how do I know you're even saying the truth?
@vapid jay

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

with a stupid response? why would I lie about that

#

what do i get out of it by lying

#

@vapid jay if you know so much, why are you asking every week for resume help, and why has it got you no where yet?

hasty mango Jun 18, 2020, 9:25 PM

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@devout niche id keep the cashier part. if youre submitting electronically, id also advise including as many python and front-end buzzwords as possible. whatever the job posting has included for desired skills, make sure to verbatim include those skills somewhere on your resume

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

you took it off topic, i said if the transferrable skills are relevant, put them down

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

that doesn't mean anything, how do I know you're even saying the truth?
really? We just said you, few people, me included, that experinece shows that not allof those things are true. I specifically can attest that you can get interview/job from applying via the most bare linkeding job posting.

#

also, you can ask same question (how do you know it's true) about the articles you are linking

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:26 PM

#

honestly, i trust people who work at google, intel, whatsapp and other companies, especially when they're involved in the hiring process

#

also, 10$ says what you found was confirmation bias and you didn't have a neutral search term

#

you still never answered my question

#

@egyptian prince 👑 if you know so much, why are you asking every week for resume help, and why has it got you no where yet?

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:28 PM

#

i just trust it more vs just talking in generalities
@vapid jay personal experinece != generalities

#

while lots of articles are quite general: they often have valuble info and plenty of insights. But they don't alway hold true. Hence it is important to also be critical and take things with a grain of salt

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

+1, you're still in high school prince, you'll realise that when companies come to your university to give talks, you'll realise we're not making out of the blue claims. or when you've spoken to people in industry

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

and to weight it with respect to personal exrepiece

#

of other people, if you don't have enough of own experinece yet

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:31 PM

#

also that isnt neutral in the slightest. it's a poorly worded search term, that will search for people that have no tech background and only worked as a cashier, tryinf to land a software job

#

or you can listen to people who have had more experience than 0?

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

you can't link personal experience xD and that is what we offered as a counterpart to articles

#

I mean, not every person talking here would go and write articles on that experinece

#

so you will always take a word/career adivce for article that, in your words, could have been written by some joe blow over word of people in converstation? At least that is an impression I got

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

Why are you in this channel if you weight personal experience as 0?

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

dude, leave him charlie, there is no point, kid's gotta grow up on his own, he'll learn one day as he gets older

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

Thats a serious question. The goal of this channel is to discuss the industry with other people. There's nothing wrong with articles, but if you assume people are acting in bad faith or are all wrong, what's the point?

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

nothing weird about it

#

i understand it completely

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

It means that the goal of the channel is to talk to people, not just to post links

#

I'm not saying you aren't - but you've implied that at least 2 people here are lying

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

https://graduatecoach.co.uk/how-to-get-a-graduate-job-with-no-experience/

Graduate Coach

graduate-coach

How to get a graduate job with no experience - Graduate Coach

Need to know how to get a graduate job with no experience? We'll share how you can secure yourself a graduate job if you feel you don't have experience.

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

The point is that the discussion will go nowhere if you assume the other people are acting in bad faith - which is what you seem to be doing

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

it literally says as ome of the main points, put down part time job experience

#

https://debut.careers/insight/get-graduate-job-with-no-experience/

Debut

Here's how you get a job with no experience

Hope is not lost.

rustic schooner Jun 18, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

As I see it this argument is an argument over an argument and is not reaching anything, maybe itd be good to settle the differences here?

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

here's 2 links now @vapid jay

#

first 2clicks on google

#

both said put any work experience down, list it as transferrable skills

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

As I see it this argument is an argument over an argument and is not reaching anything, maybe itd be good to settle the differences here?
@rustic schooner
Yeah, that's a good idea.

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

this is pointless, i'm leaving it, kid's stubborn af

marsh wind Jun 18, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

well do what you think/believe is best for you. All I suggest is never to take only articles or only peoples word. Be critical and be analytical. If 3 articles say "don't apply via LI/job boards" but 5 people (even on discord) say that its worth applying as it can net you interview/job, would you completely dismiss their advice? I think you would not being in the position of active job seeker 🤷‍♂️ (I re-use this as it was a prominent point in many articles I read which contracdicted my and other people I know personal experinece. I don't have any regarding cashier/part time jobs)

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

no shit, you're an internet troll?

#

they don't have to be directly related to software engineering

#

it's getting a job without relevant experience

#

that applies to everything

#

EVERYTHINF

#

there is nothing valid about what you said

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

as was pointed out - this is going nowhere and no one is gonna change their minds

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

@vapid jay aren't you the guy in high school looking for help getting an internship? Wtf are you doing giving resume advice??

rustic schooner Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

@devout niche Out of interest, how long did it take you to aquire sufficient knowledge to work on those kind of projects?

vapid jay Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

Wait till you've actually landed a job ffs

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

you're searching on google for people who are cashiers trying to become software devs, like no shit that wont happen

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

woahwoahwoah

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

i'm searching for what to put when you dont have relevant experience

#

but you clearly can't make that simple link

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

just show you them your source code they will respond KEKW

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

that it's related to anything in life

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

worked for me I am in a top 100 company

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

i did

#

and I got 2 amazing jovs out of it

#

lmao

#

and I used it on my uni personal statement

#

but i'm just a stranger on the internet and not a freecodecamp link, so you wont trust me

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

so what's going on here?

#

thonking

#

charlie, give it to me.

#

you never dissapoint

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

maybe you should take a break from programming and learn humility, this makes 0 sense

gilded valley Jun 18, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

The original point was whether or not cashier experience should be included on a CV for inexperienced software devs. Egyptian King said no, and linked a FreeCodeCamp article - I said yes, and explained that it has been directly relevant to me in interviews and landing jobs in the past

devout niche Jun 18, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

@rustic schooner I did an online boot camp called Lambda School, it took 9 months. I did know some programming languages before hand but abosutely nothing about web dev

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Alright, I think it's relevant too. When I am interviewing new candidates for student positions at least I like to see that they have done something work related in the past and I like it if they show some projects they have done in their spare time. :-)

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

yikes my dude, good luck @vapid jay , keep begging for resume help each week and not trusting anyone because we're not freecodecamp

devout niche Jun 18, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

The full time program was 9 months, 5 days a week

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

but student != graduate full time though

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

no? not even an argument

wind hinge Jun 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

o hey guys what are we disscussing now?

opal perch Jun 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

you're too much of a simpleton to understand simple links

vague bloom Jun 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

oh okay we are beyond helping here LUL