#career-advice | Python | Page 335

vivid sparrow Mar 14, 2020, 4:18 PM

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is it like flask? sorry i shouldn't have asked this here.

inner zealot Mar 14, 2020, 4:19 PM

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You mean WordPress?

vivid sparrow Mar 14, 2020, 4:20 PM

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Yeah, I hear it's a replacement for a backend language but when ever I watch a tutorial video it's someone moving stuff around, like a web page builder. Maybe i just didnt get far enough in the tutorial.

gilded valley Mar 14, 2020, 4:20 PM

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Wordpress is a CMS (content managemtn system). Its popular because it gives non tech users a GUI where they can create content like blogposts

vivid sparrow Mar 14, 2020, 4:20 PM

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Oh right, thnx for info.

inner zealot Mar 14, 2020, 4:23 PM

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Yeah, it's a far cry from programming but can be useful

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I haven't tried it but can you integrate python into it? Flask is nice and all but I'm not really a front end guy

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Maybe we should move somewhere else

shadow moss Mar 14, 2020, 5:36 PM

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Few IT technologies ever die

marsh wind Mar 14, 2020, 5:36 PM

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Indeed but career wise some can become more obsolete

shadow moss Mar 14, 2020, 5:36 PM

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yep

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you are hoping that your job last long enough until retirement

vapid jay Mar 14, 2020, 11:27 PM

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Good day everyone, might be off-topic and pretentious so I apologize in advance.

I have 2 interests: 1. Creating Desktop Applications and 2. Creating Web Applications.
I am currently studying C++ focusing in Desktop Applications with hopes of getting freelance jobs. Can I get a Freelance Job in this field or
do the companies only accept Full-Time workers? I could also go to Web Applications route(I will be using Django). Which has a higher
chance of getting a freelance job? Thank you very much!

radiant moon Mar 14, 2020, 11:47 PM

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hellifino

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 3:50 AM

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hm

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 4:05 AM

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is making ur own portfolio website worth it ?

woeful spruce Mar 15, 2020, 4:20 AM

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can't hurt

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couldn't you just provide your git account though?

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 4:31 AM

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its just i want to organise all the projects and display it in abit professional way

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@woeful spruce

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i was thinking of using the github pages just to list all the repo that i want to display using github api

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simple as it can be

torpid bolt Mar 15, 2020, 11:05 AM

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you can pin your important repositories in the github profile, it only takes seconds

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making a nice page to talk about you and present your stuff can be nice, but i wouldn't spend too much time on it unless you want it to show some web designer skills (but don't try to if that's not your forte, or the result can be quite cringey)

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 12:46 PM

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i guess im just gonna pin it. thnx @torpid bolt

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one more thing does not having ur name on github profile matters?

sour tartan Mar 15, 2020, 12:54 PM

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why don't you want your name on your github profile?

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 12:55 PM

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i will just change it to my name if it really matters ?

sour tartan Mar 15, 2020, 12:55 PM

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if you are thinking of your profile as a portfolio site, then you should have your name on it, right?

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 12:56 PM

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sounds fair i reckon thnx bud

limber rampart Mar 15, 2020, 12:58 PM

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I think it's fine if you just use a nickname

sour tartan Mar 15, 2020, 12:59 PM

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As an employer, i'd like to see a real name

torpid bolt Mar 15, 2020, 2:08 PM

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I use a nickname, but i have my real name in the profile.

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 2:59 PM

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I think as long as it's connected to your site, that'd be fine.

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:31 PM

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Do interviewers let you import libraries during interviews, or you have to code most of everything from scratch?

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For example:

“Find the smallest value repeating value in an array”.

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My first thought would just be using collections.Counter, then max, with the get method.

gilded valley Mar 15, 2020, 3:34 PM

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AFAIK some would, some wouldn't. But its best to not have to do that - understanding both with and without libraries is important

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:35 PM

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Thanks.

gilded valley Mar 15, 2020, 3:35 PM

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The whole coding interview thing is often not about being able to get a solution - but being able to explain the solution and how you arrived there

shadow moss Mar 15, 2020, 3:36 PM

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with question like that, no, no libraries would be allowed

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 3:37 PM

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However when python is concerned they might want see if you know collections

shadow moss Mar 15, 2020, 3:38 PM

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maybe

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:39 PM

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Thanks for the input everyone!

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I just started programming in January, and want to see if I can get a dev job EOY.

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 3:39 PM

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At least I've been asked last time about collections

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:40 PM

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My goal is to have one by 2021, testing the waters though.

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 3:40 PM

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Not to use but to give some examples

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:40 PM

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What type of programming do you do?

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 3:41 PM

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None for the moment, Data Science soon :)

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 3:41 PM

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You must be good at the maths then. 😄

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I’m planning on reteaching myself Algebra, then gonna learn Discrete Math.

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Math has always been my worst subject.

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 3:43 PM

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Well. I am a physicist, so I am fine with math. Although I still have a lot to learn from viewpoint of Machine Learning specific math /stats

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 5:26 PM

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so for datasciene for the basic math u just need to know calculus, variance , probability, algerbra, and linear regresssion or do u need more than that ?

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@marsh wind

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as for the starter in data science?>

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if i want to focus my career towards data science, jus the basic foot steps for math in data science?? is it enough ?

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 5:29 PM

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It can vary. It seems that nowadays what they care the most is that you know how to use and what /where/why to use. They want also to see that you have basic understanding of how different models work

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And mostly they want to see that you have applied things in sny kind of project

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 5:30 PM

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ohhh i c i c thnx heaps @marsh wind

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 5:30 PM

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i.e. I never had specific math/stats questions in interviews

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but I was asked at two different interviews what is random forest

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why/how it works and why it is better than single decision tree

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or other classification algorithm

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it seems that if you know the underlying math and etc it is a plus of course. But if you don't it's not that bad nowadays, as typically you use implemented models from libs

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rather than implement/develop them from scratch

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probably having like any kind of project is important

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well

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not any kind

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not textbook ones

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 5:35 PM

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Ahh sounds fair enough dont u need to know math to understand what that lib is doing n what u want to achieve from it ?

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 5:38 PM

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well it helps I guess. But I don't think you need to know all the equations for every model, every minization algorithm, etc. I think what matters more is understanding its intuition.

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 5:41 PM

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ohhh i cc ty for ur valuable insight

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 5:42 PM

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no problem.

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:04 PM

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bare in mind that each company might have a different approach and that different countries culture as well as demand/competition differ influencing what they might want you to have/know @wintry imp

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:05 PM

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oh sure i willkeep that in mind thnx heaps @marsh wind

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:05 PM

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I've been asked very broad questions and pretty intricate questions both

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for data scientist\machine learning engineer positions

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:06 PM

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i wanna to apply for data scientist / machine learning engineer position but also i wanna do back end and dev ops

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im jebaiting my self so hard

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:06 PM

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Are you currently in any of those industries @vapid jay?

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@wintry imp that’s where I’m at right now

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@vapid jay I'm between jobs right now, interviewing for new ones. I'm doing data science right now.

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I want to get into backend. The thing with DevOps is that it requires so much exp

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:07 PM

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oh anda game development haha

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:08 PM

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@wintry imp how old are you

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:08 PM

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18

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:08 PM

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okay.

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:08 PM

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but im a dropout

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:08 PM

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that's not a problem.

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do you have some relevant job experience

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:09 PM

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i did study upto 2nd year of undergrad in uni tho lol

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i did junior ui/ ux designer

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did 6 month internship adn then got the job there before i left my job and uni

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:10 PM

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I have no degree either lol. I’ve just been self-teaching

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:10 PM

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anywasy i wanna get into something back end and dev ops

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but wanna have knowledege on data scientist./ machine learning stuffs

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same here @vapid jay grinding really hard to get good but im just trying to absorb so many stuffs altogether smh

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:13 PM

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if you want a job in some of these fields I think you need really pick one and focus

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:13 PM

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thats the dilemma

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-.-

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:14 PM

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about a year and soemthing ago I was in similar dilemma, like do I want to do DS/ML, or some JS, backend, and even some low-lever C/C++ things

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:14 PM

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so me atm

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:15 PM

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ultimately tho, even there was some interesting in all of the rest I picked DS/ML

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depending on your situation you might afford to branch

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and try different things

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:16 PM

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about 3 years ago I was working doing basic all-around administration\devops\programming stuff in a start-up company and basically wiring up everything. it was fun since I had a lot of things in my hands and could do things as I wanted to but it felt like I wasn't "bringing in the big fish" (=negotiating for new projects\clients) so I decided to expand into something new: Machine Learning. started from absolutely zero and +3½ years later I am doing it full-time.

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but the only way that happened was because I could\did focus on one thing and one thing only.

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:17 PM

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ye i dont have that mindset atm -.-

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for me i just dont want to regret it on later tbh like after picking one and focusing on it for a while or even getting a job in it and afterwards just not feeling the passion i have about it now

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lol

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:18 PM

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when I was 18 I was going to uni and playing Dota 2, so that's OK xD

ye i dont have that mindset atm -.-

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i just dont want to regret it on later tbh like after picking one and focusing on it for a while or even getting a job
you can change later

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:25 PM

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well true i reckon. So how did u guys like decide on what u wanted ?

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:29 PM

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they said ML is sexy

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that it'll get you lots of work

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this turns out to be somewhat true but it also turns out that most ML jobs are kinda "meh"

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the magic you thought ML was kinda disappears when you start doing it yourself

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:39 PM

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ah shit i havent even looked at ML yet just been focusing on data scientist stuffs ,back end, sme dev ops surface level stuff and math and problem solving skills lol

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can u chuck in some tiny surface level detail on what u have to do in ML @vapid jay

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thnx heaps

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:39 PM

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what kind of data scientist stuff then?

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becasue a big part of Data scientist jobs is doing ML 🙂

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:40 PM

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i meant like plotting and stuffs luk

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just some basic level stuffs

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:40 PM

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oh ok

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:40 PM

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just crawling through libraries

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is ML necessary for data scientist ???

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 6:42 PM

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@wintry imp I'm not gonna give any "definition" for ML but it's largely about building models of some kind from training data (supervised learning) or letting the computer find patterns from existing data and then inspecting it by hand (unsupervised learning)

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@wintry imp not strictly but they go very much hand in hand. I wouldn't do one without the other.

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:42 PM

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I have not seen a single data scientist job listing where ML wasn't required 🙂

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:43 PM

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ahhh well

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ML is just too much at this moment for me tbh

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 6:43 PM

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in fact, data science(-tist) is something quite vague

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:43 PM

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but i wanan give it a try

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ohhh i c

keen maple Mar 15, 2020, 6:43 PM

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I can probably jump in here really briefly for my experience as an ML engineer. A large focus of mine is to get data scientist's code into production, which we deploy as microservices using Docker and Kubernetes. I have also worked on tools to help data scientists build their models more quickly (and consistently). In my company every data scientist has to do ML, at least creating the initial model and showing that it can be used

wintry imp Mar 15, 2020, 6:45 PM

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oh i c i c

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thnx heaps for the valueable insight guys @marsh wind @vapid jay @keen maple

sterile vault Mar 15, 2020, 6:47 PM

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What do you think are essential skills for ML engineer? Aside from Docker you just mentioned.

keen maple Mar 15, 2020, 6:50 PM

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I guess that depends from company to company, but I was given the time and resources to pick up anything I didn't already have. But coming in, I had to demonstrate solid general Python coding ability and a good understanding of ML concepts. I was also asked some system design questions but as I was coming into a more junior position I probably wasn't evaluated too heavily on this part.

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I think along the lines of Python coding ability, general familiarity with common data science libraries helps (so stuff like numpy, scikit-learn, pandas, etc.)

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 7:04 PM

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yeah sounds similar to my last interview experience for data scientist position

sterile vault Mar 15, 2020, 7:27 PM

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Seems a good stepping stone, when your math is not up to snuff for DS proper

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Thought you'll need more background skills, like ability to use Hadoop and general sysadmin stuff

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 7:30 PM

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machine learning engineer is a completely different position than data scientist.

sterile vault Mar 15, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Yes, but it's much closer than, say, Django dev

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 8:47 PM

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How much Algorithms & Data Structures knowledge should I have before starting Data science and machine learning? I took CS50

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:14 PM

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@ember sluice from a pure data science\machine learning perspective you don't need those things since DS and ML are really about statistics\pattern recognition\mathematics applied through computers to the real world but computers are always involved so you do get some mileage out of understanding those things. they're not the most important thing but i wouldn't completely ignore them either.

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:15 PM

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So would you say CS50 is enough?

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:16 PM

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when it comes to ML/DS you'll have to work your skillset where you seem to be lacking the most at the time. if it's programming, then practice that. if it's statistics, then that. if it's something else, then that.

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high school math is probably enough to get you started for most purposes.

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:18 PM

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I think I will improve my problem solving skills, I know some linear algebra (Matrices and vectors) from high school, then I can study some statistics

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I'm still studying linear algebra tho

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:20 PM

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it'll be fine.

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:20 PM

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Thank you 👍

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:21 PM

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there seems to be stuff like this floating around on the internet

📎 1YylTTtIEkCcx-EFh5g2Vsw.png

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the guy is Andrew Ng who has taught many of us the basics of ML (me included)

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:21 PM

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Oh i saw his course but I thought it was outdated

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Maybe I should take it

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:21 PM

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the course is but

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there is outdated stuff but it's still worth taking

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 9:22 PM

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octave coding is outdated I guess

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:22 PM

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In the intro the google logo was the old one

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:22 PM

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I think somebody said on the AI discord that you can do it in python too now

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 9:22 PM

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but you can even make assignments in python - I saw someone did a module that allows to submit for scoring it

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:23 PM

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But for the math it doesn't change

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:23 PM

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the math is fine yeah

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 9:23 PM

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https://github.com/dibgerge/ml-coursera-python-assignments

GitHub

dibgerge/ml-coursera-python-assignments

Python assignments for the machine learning class by andrew ng on coursera with complete submission for grading capability and re-written instructions. - dibgerge/ml-coursera-python-assignments

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I did not try them myself though 🙂

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:24 PM

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aaah that course would've been so much more fun in python

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 9:25 PM

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maybe I should get my sh*t together and do it one day xD

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I think I watch about 50-60% of lectures

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but not assigments

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:26 PM

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So would you recommend I start with the course or get some statistics knowledge first

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:26 PM

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@ember sluice the course is very self-contained.

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just start watching it and you'll see 🙂

marsh wind Mar 15, 2020, 9:27 PM

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my main gripe on that course is audio quality 🙂

ember sluice Mar 15, 2020, 9:28 PM

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I noticed that too

vapid jay Mar 15, 2020, 9:29 PM

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the editing is abysmal too

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there was some person who was doing it other than andrew 😄

supple fossil Mar 16, 2020, 12:07 AM

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@torpid bolt so what's my next steps? Like I said I'm kind of a jack of all trades. How do I go about this process and make myself stand out.

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I don't even know what type of job I should be applying to

torpid bolt Mar 16, 2020, 12:10 AM

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i would say you can try applying to junior dev positions in smaller companies that don't have the means to compete with GAFAM or FANG or whatever it is these days for top talent, but that still have a dev team that can help you learn, making sure you are not on your own

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the specifics certainly depend on your location and the companies around you, i can't know that, but if things don't pick up in a few months (of applying to positions or doing spontaneous candidating to companies), maybe looking for available bootcamps in your location (make sure they are reputable before putting any time or money though), could help giving you a leg up in the business.

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there is a link to a redit post in the pins of this channel to someone who spent a year or so self teaching dev on the side and then got their first dev job, it's certainly a lot more instructive than my own experience of directly starting in this business with degrees for it.

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yeah, it's the second from top in the pins

dark salmon Mar 16, 2020, 12:48 AM

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@ember sluice

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consider watching CS 231n by stanford

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and the concepts you find difficult, watch andrew ng's videos for that

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i watched andrew ng's videos before taking my first formal course in ML at college and they literally finished andew ng's worth of content in 1 week

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so it is definitely not enough

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on the other hand CS 231N is more mathematically rigorous and more 'useful' if you want more depth

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the way andrew's course was organised, i felt, was made in a manner to help complete newbies break in to the field - and it was made in a way that anybody without much mathematical maturity will be able to get the gist of machine learning

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oh yeah lol someone posted a meme above

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pretty much what i'm trying to say

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ALSO, it is very very very very very very difficult to land an ML job

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the best way to get into ML, imo, is through being a good software developer - finding a software / analytics tinkering role

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and find your way through there

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i myself am a newbie, so take this with a grain of salt but i am looking for jobs as well and i find that atleast many of the top paying organisations look for PhDs

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but like tshirtman said, smaller companies might be easier to get a junior dev role with ML, another option is through data science route

harsh patio Mar 16, 2020, 5:11 AM

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The scariest part to me with all this corona shit is just the idea of being laid off, honestly

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Nervously awaiting the job that JUST hired me to turn around and have to let me go in a few months as this economic situation heads downwards

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 7:03 AM

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Wish me luck, first interview with oncology software company in two hours for analyst position. They'll give me a test task, but have zero idea what to expect. Feel a bit underqualified, but at least my resume got through HR.

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Also, love going through public transportation in that pandemic 🙂

icy berry Mar 16, 2020, 7:56 AM

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good luck @sterile vault it is normal to have a bit of those feelings, imposter syndrome is very common in the tech industry. you would not be offered an interview if they felt you where not qualified

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 9:56 AM

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Well, they said that they'll send me the test task tomorrow and it should take 2-3 evenings

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(or not, depending how the interview went). Was stressed AF, but hope it wouldn't be a problem to them

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One task should be python one, but since it's not dev role, it shouldn't be too hard

shut geyser Mar 16, 2020, 11:06 AM

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good luck!

civic tiger Mar 16, 2020, 11:15 AM

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good luck!

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 11:28 AM

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Thank!

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 11:51 AM

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What unit testing frameworks look good on a resume / portfolio project?

vapid jay Mar 16, 2020, 11:52 AM

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any.

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 11:52 AM

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lol

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:34 PM

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using unit testing frameworks looks good on resume

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:35 PM

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well yes

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but i'm wondering if there are any trends in what sorts of companies use what frameworks

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:36 PM

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Do you put it onto your resume? I though it goes into portfolio, maximum is a line "Familiar with TDD"

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:37 PM

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nope

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generally it's whatever senior developer likes that works

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or whatever is language standard

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depending

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at my company it's C# so it's .Net Unittest and Powershell PESTER for functional testing

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:38 PM

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Showerthought - you shouldn't put your preferred editor info in case you meet Vim/Emacs hardline fan

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM

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you don't want to work for any of those

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM

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hm good point but then again , what rabbit said

wintry imp Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM

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y?

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM

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Weird, I thought NUnit/Xunit were standart. But I'm not a professional, so I may be mistaken.

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM

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i guess pytest would be a fine option then?

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i think i used it before

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:40 PM

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Github uses pytest as default in their Github Action. Good enough for them, good enough for me.

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:40 PM

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fun.

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guess i'll go with that

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:41 PM

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I've met a few, some are really productive in Vim/Emacs, rest are just contrarian who would be better served switching to decent Editor

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It's like "yuck a GUI" while working on their Mac

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:42 PM

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More like "yuck a Mac"

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:42 PM

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i think i like the idea of vim more than actually using it

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emacs never made sense to me

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 2:42 PM

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I like the idea of Vim as well, but it makes no sense to use IMO

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:42 PM

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i can see an argument for vim / emacs if you're on low power hardware

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thats mostly why i wanted to learn it

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:42 PM

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We expect our interviewees to reach for VSCode during testing, it's installed and updated on interview laptop

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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are you working at a C# shop?

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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yep

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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also what about jetbrains offerings?

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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python is used for some APIs I develop

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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and/or sublime?

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:43 PM

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some people use JetBrains

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:44 PM

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actually idr if they have 1st party C# support

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:44 PM

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they do

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:44 PM

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I think the mastery of highly customisable editor allowing you do go anywhere in the file (that works from SSH) has it's merits, but i don't have patience to master it for good 10 years. Though it's more #tools-and-devops topic.

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:44 PM

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but vast majority use Visual Studio

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Jetbrains was much comfier than VS

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 2:45 PM

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some of developers use Visual Studio Code for C#

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I use Visual Studio code for Powershell/Python

sterile vault Mar 16, 2020, 2:45 PM

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And has much better integration with Unity (was important for me at the time)

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A lot of people used Resharper anyway

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 2:45 PM

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vscode was the free one?

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how does it compare to pycharm pro?

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actually

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right

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#tools-and-devops

whole crystal Mar 16, 2020, 4:06 PM

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@shadow moss Devs dont use vs code for c#, they use vs studio

shadow moss Mar 16, 2020, 4:21 PM

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Kiwi, you can

hollow steppe Mar 16, 2020, 6:09 PM

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Kiwi is actually great
It also tells the whole description of the function in other window

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But it doesn't work with idle

zenith inlet Mar 16, 2020, 7:47 PM

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https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/economic-recession-forecast-coronavirus-fuel-us-gdp-contraction-market-goldman-2020-3-1028999426 here we go

markets.businessinsider.com

Goldman Sachs officially predicts a coronavirus-driven recession wi...

The coronavirus pandemic will drag the US into a recession after a sharp decline to economic activity through the first half of the year, Goldma...

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Guys, i have a question. Is there any job that relays only on knowing python itself? I mean nothing with Flask/django and such?

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Because i bought a Flask book and i don't understand shit. I like to make logic for apps, nothing else.

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:03 PM

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in essence; no

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:05 PM

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im stupid as shit. It's useless to learn further

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Its probably not useless. If you're comfortable with basic Python, then you should be able to learn Flask

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It might be a problem with the book you chose, or that there's just a better way for you to learn

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Is employment the only reason you're learning python? If so how much time are you dedicating to it?

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:08 PM

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I allways wanted to learn to code. Python was my choice of language and i am comfortable with it. One time i was searching what companies need to star a python career and mostly they need django/flask and python

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I was just thinking one time "Why not learn it fully and make money out of it"

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Have you looked at other resources for learning Flask? in !resources there's a course thats a fairly good intro

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:10 PM

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where is that !resources you are reffering to

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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!resources

inner wrenBOT Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Oh! That

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world

The Flask Mega-Tutorial Part I: Hello, World! - migue...

miguelgrinberg.com

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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i'll check it out

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:11 PM

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thats the specific tutorial thats pretty good

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:13 PM

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see.. that's the whole point. I got that kind of tutorial in a book

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i understand that. That's ok

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:13 PM

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What exactly was wrong with the book?

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:16 PM

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But when it comes to second chapter "Basic structure of aplication"and the book goes downhill like "Requests, bootstrap, hooks" i see that there is a lot of JavaScript, CSS and HTML that i need to understand.

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and that's where i don't understand how websites work at all

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:16 PM

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Ah - HTML/CSS is kinda a prerequisite for Flask

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:16 PM

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i mean, HTML CSS it's cool

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it's easy to grasp, i have my own website that is made out of it

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:17 PM

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You shouldn't really need JS to begin with, after you've learnt flask you'll start to feel the need for it

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I'd suggest just working through that mega tutorial. I've used it for code samples and as a reference before and its been good, so I assume it works nicely as a tutorial as well

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Well, i'll try to. Thanks.

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:19 PM

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If there are things you don't understand as you're going, its a reasonable idea to ask in #web-development or #python-discussion

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:20 PM

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Another thing. Company that i was searching wants from future-employee to make some RestFull Media Api whitch i don't really understand how it works

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i have a problem with stuff like servers, network and websites with their logic

gilded valley Mar 16, 2020, 8:21 PM

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I'd suggest understanding normal flask before going too deep on rest stuff.

But at the most basic level, a rest api is a website that returns JSON instead of HTML, and that is used in other applications by programmers rather than users

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making one is about as easy/difficult as making a normal HTML website

shell verge Mar 16, 2020, 8:24 PM

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only if i know some stuff about it.

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Well, thanks for helpfull stuff dude!

supple fossil Mar 16, 2020, 10:58 PM

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@torpid bolt thank you sir

tulip ice Mar 16, 2020, 11:48 PM

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@shell verge This article explains what REST is https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/five/what-restful-actually-means

What RESTful actually means

vital imp Mar 17, 2020, 1:14 AM

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how is the corona affecting your jobs?

whole crystal Mar 17, 2020, 1:14 AM

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When you are a student

mint citrus Mar 17, 2020, 1:15 AM

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corona still a thing?

radiant moon Mar 17, 2020, 1:19 AM

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wfh for last couple weeks, until ... God knows when

vital imp Mar 17, 2020, 1:21 AM

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until the russian elections i guess

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or is it chinese? i cant keep up who is running the shows

mellow agate Mar 17, 2020, 3:35 AM

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@unborn nymph advertising is not allowed in the server.

unborn nymph Mar 17, 2020, 3:36 AM

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... that's not an advertisement

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I of course am not the mod, so I respect the decision.

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@mellow agate did you delete my previous comment to make it look as if I was advertising?

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Because I had a very clear comment explaining why that is not advertising.

mellow agate Mar 17, 2020, 3:40 AM

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It was removed because its essentially you posting a simplified version of the same thing. It's still advertising, calling for people to contact you.

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If you wish to discuss further please avoid derailing this on topic channel and DM me instead.

unborn nymph Mar 17, 2020, 3:42 AM

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Maybe I should be calling for you to get over yourself.

mellow agate Mar 17, 2020, 3:43 AM

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!tempmute 348899472018898956 1D That's not the type of behaviour that's going to really keep things constructive and civil.

inner wrenBOT Mar 17, 2020, 3:43 AM

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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @unborn nymph until 2020-03-18 03:43 (23 hours and 59 minutes).

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 4:27 AM

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yert

hazy shoal Mar 17, 2020, 4:29 AM

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Do y'all think it's possible for a student to find an software internship this summer despite a pandemic happening

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lol

radiant moon Mar 17, 2020, 4:30 AM

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shrug

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apply anyway

warm spruce Mar 17, 2020, 4:31 AM

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And plus software classes can be online.

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Basically anything coding related is already online.

hazy shoal Mar 17, 2020, 4:37 AM

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yeah, im just thinking more so jobs for the summer

humble shore Mar 17, 2020, 4:47 AM

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Can anyone tell me what they think of some of the projects on my GitHub, or how to make it more appealing to employers? My GitHub is https://www.github.com/1fge

GitHub

1fge - Overview

1fge has 5 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 7:34 AM

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so i found this datascience roadmap was just wondering if some more stuff needed to be mentioned for the beginner level??

📎 datascience_landscape.jpg

shut geyser Mar 17, 2020, 9:09 AM

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grit

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what

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:36 AM

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it's good to have

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@wintry imp that looks like a pretty good map.

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the deep learning world is really shallow there and underrepresented but the big picture is good

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:38 AM

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thnx heaps @vapid jay

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:39 AM

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the programming thing is really in the center but I'm not sure you need to be involved with all of those technologies.

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:39 AM

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im probably not diving in to deep learning soon so far

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im just trying to focus on python

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:41 AM

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I'd probably start with the data visualization things. that's the most fun and interesting imo.

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:41 AM

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do u think i need to focus on more than python for the programming part?

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i like data visulization too more than actually analysing the data

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jsut visualising

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:42 AM

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visualizing also teaches to think about the data in terms of whether it's categorical etc. and makes you question whether it is correctly distributed and gives you a good overview. it's analysis in itself.

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:43 AM

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i meant just producing an image of the data haha

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:43 AM

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it leads you to questions like "ok so I want to visualize in the easiest possible way all possible combinations of two-variable relationships in this table I have"

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or "what's the difference between a scatterplot and a lineplot"

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"when do I want a boxplot"

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"when do I use a histogram"

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those are fun things to do imho

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:44 AM

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u make it sound fun tbh haha

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hopefully i find it as much as fun u do

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:44 AM

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the results are immediate

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:46 AM

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ahh fair enough hopefully my data science journey gonna be fun thnx again worldwake

vapid jay Mar 17, 2020, 9:46 AM

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👍

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this is like a super hyper basic tutorial which skips over a billion things but teaches you the fundamentals: https://scikit-learn.org/stable/tutorial/basic/tutorial.html

wintry imp Mar 17, 2020, 9:48 AM

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bookmarked it thnx heaps bud 😄

shadow moss Mar 17, 2020, 7:16 PM

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sicca, depends on where you are

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Most companies will hire interns in most economies, it will really depend on lockdown situation by start of internship

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if we are still mostly remote, it's unlikely we hire interns since they need supervision

clear sleet Mar 17, 2020, 11:00 PM

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Do you need to know about data structures and algorithms to get a job?

white karma Mar 17, 2020, 11:10 PM

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I would think they would help

torpid bolt Mar 17, 2020, 11:11 PM

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it helps, some companies do filter on that, especially the big ones, if you go for a programmer's job there

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but a lot of working programmers have very light knowledge on that side, as a lot of them didn't study CS in the first place, most of the work you actually do only requires knowing the basics, as you use very high level abstractions for most things these days, and they do take care of all the problems you study in such courses

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of course, it's still good and well to know them, but you can definitely manage without, if you don't aim for GAFAM/FANG companies

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i'm not particularly great at them, in fact, in some interviews that were a bit heavier on that than i'm used to, i did fail pretty basic theoretical questions, and still got the job.

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 12:54 AM

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how is that related to #career-advice ?

white karma Mar 18, 2020, 12:55 AM

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Career student maybe?

inland cedar Mar 18, 2020, 12:55 AM

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as long as you balance it out with your sat/act, ecs, etc i don't see why 2 c's should be an issue

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and it also depends on the subject you got those c's in and whether you're going to apply for a related field

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:13 AM

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was just curious for like data science jobs, if u have like nose piercing?? does it set bad impression? does it really affect their decision ?

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when u go for interviews?

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:16 AM

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just look presentable

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its not a hard concept

white karma Mar 18, 2020, 1:16 AM

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A lot of people fail to meet that concept

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You’ll do fine though Pistol

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:16 AM

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look like you want the job and you care for it. if you show up with piercings all over your body what kind of impression do you think you are giving?

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if its just a nose ring its prob fine

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just hide anything offensive

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:19 AM

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oh sweet but ye im not gonna wear those piercings hahabut they can still figure out haha

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and sure thnx heaps @white karma and @mint citrus

white karma Mar 18, 2020, 1:19 AM

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Then yes you’ll be fine 👍

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:19 AM

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GL

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:20 AM

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lol i have still long way to go for that

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i was jsut curios

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:20 AM

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oh i see

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I will be starting interviewing again

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:20 AM

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wanted to get it off my chest pretty much

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:20 AM

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im ditching my current job

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they fail to listen to me and fail to set standards and processes

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😦

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:21 AM

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like ??

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best of luck with finding the job u gonna be happy with 😄

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:21 AM

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oh boss is somehow insistent that we use dedicated bare metal servers instead of using something like aws

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thinks a ticket system is "help desk" and complains that its more work

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uses UAT as a time to discuss new features

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:22 AM

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he probably just wants to stick with inhouse stuffs i reckon lol

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:22 AM

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doesnt test enough on staging because its "not real"

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:22 AM

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lool

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:22 AM

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so instead tests on production and insists that all the bugs didnt exist on staging

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:23 AM

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i dont have much experience but i thought most companies are adapting to TDD ??

sour tartan Mar 18, 2020, 1:24 AM

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most companies are not doing TDD

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:24 AM

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isnt it better if u do ??

sour tartan Mar 18, 2020, 1:24 AM

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maybe

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:24 AM

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im not a fan of TDD tbh

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it really depends on the type of project I think

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:25 AM

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but still isnt it better to test as u go

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instead of finding bug at the end and start panicking ?

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:25 AM

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thats not how it works

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you can write the program and write tests for it at the same time

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:26 AM

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ye so u write the test first

sour tartan Mar 18, 2020, 1:26 AM

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@wintry imp companies generally do testing, but not TDD necessarily

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:26 AM

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sometimes you cant be certain of what you expect out of a program

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so you develop and then write tests for it

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TDD is a lot harder to do

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:27 AM

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oh ye sounds fair enough

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:27 AM

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it also slows down development a lot. you need a very clear understanding of what you are doing and that is in many cases not the case

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:28 AM

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i c sounds fair enough

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waht about CI ?

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:28 AM

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what about it?

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CI just makes it easier to test it automatically before you deploy it

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you could legit throw out CI/CD and manually do the process

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but CI/CD does speed up the process a lot which is why so many companies use it

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its more of a develop and forget

wintry imp Mar 18, 2020, 1:30 AM

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ye automating is gonna be lot easier than doing it manually

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i guess im gonna do some study now thnx heaps for ur valuable insight @mint citrus

mint citrus Mar 18, 2020, 1:31 AM

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np

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 1:59 PM

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general careers question... what standard is expected for a first job in python development. If I've made a tool for analysing twitter posts and packaged it up in a flask app is that sufficient? Like what do employers expect?

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:10 PM

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@gilded kindle that sounds like you probably have the chops to be able to handle the basics of the work yes

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but what it boils down to is not necessarily being expected to build some complete app as such but being able to function as part of the existing team in some role where you're working, say, writing parts of the backend

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:11 PM

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I get that, and im hoping that such work would be relatively easy to pick up once you start to understand their project and conventions

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:12 PM

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that sounds reasonable then. it really has a lot to do with how you present yourself et al. there are so many degrees of quality when it comes to the same "thing"

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:12 PM

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The intimidating part is sitting down with the work for the first time and trying to figure out how it all works. Like what the functions of their classes do and when to use them

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im assuming employers allow a little aquaintance time?

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:13 PM

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that depends a lot on the employer how they handle these things

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but in a reasonable company you should be working on small things and the code reviews etc. processes should be in place

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there shouldn't be any chance to break things

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:13 PM

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not to ask too many questions but could you give any examples of small tasks that might need doing

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:14 PM

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depends on the house I guess. I don't have experience from that many different places but we've had people come in and write small scripts for linux server-side things, and one guy wrote a small rest API, and one guy started by simply setting up a linux laptop.

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it really depends on the needs. these are just the things I was involved with.

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but if it was somebody else, they would've probably had them do something else.

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:16 PM

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in those cases is it forwned upon though if I were to say "Hey, i havent actually writtena rest API before but I'm gonna figure it out and get it done" or would they instantly regret their decision in hiring you

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:16 PM

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I don't know. we had a shit hiring policy anyway

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it was a weird place to work at.

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:16 PM

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i see

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It's just a tricky situation to be in. I dont feel like there are a lot more things I can learn without delving into popular packages. afterall I could go balls deep in learning tkinter but if the company doesnt want tkinter then I'd be at the same standard for their needs as I would have been without all the extra learning

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if you know what i mean

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:18 PM

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tkinter isn't worth learning.

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:18 PM

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it was just the first that popped into my head

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replace tkinter with any package and my point is the same

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unless youre suggesting there are certain packages that would actually give me a leg up and are worth inviesting my time?

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:18 PM

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well there are generic directions. python is widely used in the backend so the generic direction there should be databases + linux administration probably

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or web stuff like django\flask

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:19 PM

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flask is where ive spent the majority of my time in python

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:19 PM

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i guess those are essentially the same thing since they are involved with the databases anyway

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:20 PM

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Food for thought

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Thanks for your input mate

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:20 PM

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they call for "full stack developers" so

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learn to do both the frontend and the backend

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:21 PM

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yeah but i hate css and html.. Not from a not being able to use it side but in a way that my ideas never look good side 😂

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:21 PM

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there are ways to create HTML from the backend

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with templating

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less need to touch the frontend stuff

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:22 PM

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yeah but i mean the templates themselves

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i dont have the desiger'#s eye

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:22 PM

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👁️ of the 🐯

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:22 PM

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indeed

vapid jay Mar 18, 2020, 2:22 PM

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ok m8. i'm gonna make coffee.

gilded kindle Mar 18, 2020, 2:22 PM

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no worries

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thanks for your time

ashen crystal Mar 19, 2020, 12:39 AM

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there shouldn't be any chance to break things

@vapid jay unless you start with some random startup where every thing is all over the shop 😅

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 12:41 AM

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Sounds fun

fickle rapids Mar 19, 2020, 1:09 AM

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If its allready all over the place then you know nobody will complain when you make your very untidy desk appear 🙂

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Also - You dont need to make templates nowdays - there are loads of free ones and if you want you can even spend your hard earned cash on a template (why when there are really good free templates for everything)

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(Im also willing to do free templates for any group that needs one (or as a trade for another service))

inner wrenBOT Mar 19, 2020, 7:38 AM

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Discord has support for Markdown, which allows you to post code with full syntax highlighting. Please use these whenever you paste code, as this helps improve the legibility and makes it easier for us to help you.

To do this, use the following method:

```python
print('Hello world!')
```

Note:
• These are backticks, not quotes. Backticks can usually be found on the tilde key.
• You can also use py as the language instead of python
• The language must be on the first line next to the backticks with no space between them

This will result in the following:

print('Hello world!')

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 2:07 PM

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@inner wren

low gyro Mar 19, 2020, 4:50 PM

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hi

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Hi I'm 30 and I am a senior developer, like some I started tinkering with computers in my teenage days, I always dreamed of becoming the next Billie Jean Gates or Stevie Wonder Jobs but I realized that the golden time for computers have passed, I can no longer sit in my garage or mom's basement working on something that would explode one day into a trillion dollar company, I am afraid that it's too late for most people. What's left is that you get noticed for you skills and companies will look to train and hire you just so that they can cheap out instead of getting a senior developer hoping that they can instill some false sense of hope and spirit that you can make it up there at the top, only to realize that your VC funding has dried up and now you're about to be laid off and you only have a couple of months to try and find a new job before you become rusty and that all the new kids are learning the latest technologies that will soon surpass you and then the cycle continues from there on, slowly you crawl back into that dark room left with no more ideas, no originality and dried up creativity. What was it all for? Programming was something you loved, you cherished, now all you do is crunch code at work for another person's goals and dreams that is at a better place than you are then somehow you just started hating it, waited for the clock to hit 5PM so you can lay down in the comforts of your house and play vidya, socialize but never to attain that dream of becoming a well known tech startup industry leader or making your mark in the tech world. Just another white collar worker waiting for his days to come where he will be replaced by excitable and young teenagers who think programming is the only thing they need to explode into the world of the rich and famous or that they are the next big thing, funny isn't it?

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:01 PM

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\n aren't that expensive 😛

gilded valley Mar 19, 2020, 11:01 PM

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paragraph breaks do make things much more readable

shut geyser Mar 19, 2020, 11:04 PM

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is that a pasta

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:04 PM

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ages of startups come and go, sometime there is money for anything, sometime not, and it's back to actually needing to work for a decade to build something significant, and it's not necessarily bad.
I don't think you are a has been (or never was) at 30, it does depend a lot of your will, but yeah, technical skills are never going to be enough, you do need a vision, design skills, people skill, communication skill, and all, and in the end, while good technical people are incredibly important for a company, they usually define less its identily and success than a CEO or designer.

gilded valley Mar 19, 2020, 11:04 PM

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Google couldn't find any exact matches, so I assume not

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:06 PM

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Also it's perfectly acceptable to be a 9 to 5 programmer, though i certainly didn't agree to that 15 years ago, i understand now you can love it and leave it at work, it's a passion but it can be just a job. It doesn't mean you are bad at it, it means you keep space and time for other things.

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:11 PM

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I’d be happy with programming just being a job(so long as it pays)

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:15 PM

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it does

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first job can be a bit challenging to get, but after that it's easier

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:16 PM

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That’s what I like to read/hear

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Will a company/person hire you on your knowledge of the basics or do you need to know much more than that to even try

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:18 PM

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companies like anything that makes it more evident that you'll be a useful employee before taking the risk of hiring you

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:19 PM

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I have a strong work ethic if that helps

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:20 PM

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for some, it's taking the one with the best diploma, for others, it's "had another job before where they did stuff", but not all companies are equaly selective, and other hints of being good can help, having done personal projects, open source or not, is a good sign (open sources makes it easier to check your work and also it can help you get seen by recruiters, although it'll take time, and they'll find you more often when you don't need them that much anymore, but hey)

sour tartan Mar 19, 2020, 11:20 PM

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you have to convince them that you will get things done, and won't be more trouble than you are worth

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:21 PM

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well, strong work ethics is something they can't really check/mesure before they hire you, of course they love that, but they have no way of making sure it's true

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:21 PM

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Fair enough

sour tartan Mar 19, 2020, 11:22 PM

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(references might be a way)

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:24 PM

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good general knowledge about subjects (but absolutely saying so when you don't know) is also useful if/when you get to the interview stage, if they can ask you some technical question and you are able to answer showing you actually know things, that's nice, again, different companies will have different levels of requirements, but the more the better.

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a common one is «what happens when you enter "http://google.com" in a browser, and press enter» there is a lot of technicaly interesting things one can say about that, and understanding them is a good starting point to be a useful web developer.

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it's, of course, only an example.

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:31 PM

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That’s good to know, I suppose my next question would have to be

Are companies willing to train people that don’t know the specifics of the job?

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:32 PM

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Wow these are actually sound advices

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Thanks Mr. TShirt

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:32 PM

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By that I mean, suppose I say I have some experience with the frameworks they’re using, would they be willing to train me or someone like me the rest of the way?

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:33 PM

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I think that depends on the company

#

Because some can spend the resources to ramp you up and some need someone who is a plug n' play type

#

But that depends on the person and the attributes that can be helpful along the way

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

a programmer has to learn, not all companies provide the same level of support for that, but in any case, they have to expect you to learn things on the job, we all do

#

the more you already know, the better for them, but it's normal you don't know all there is to know, far from it

#

i'm 35 and you wouldn't believe how often i say "i never used that, but…" in a week at work

#

(sometime for things that aren't niche or anything, it's just that i was busy with other things and didn't get a chance to use that yet)

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

Well thanks fellas for your input, that puts a lot of things into perspective for me

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

Sorry @charred summit that was a pasta

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

Oh...

#

Ok

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

surprisingly, few people are "industry leaders"

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

Deleted it

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:41 PM

#

I'm actually just a passionate 18 yo

#

I love programming and I'm loving the advices so far

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

Good for you, I just started 1 year ago

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

Same

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

I think I am too late to the party

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:43 PM

#

Nah

#

Everyone thinks that tbh

#

For me it doesn't matter as long as I can keep up with market standards

sour tartan Mar 19, 2020, 11:43 PM

#

@vapid jay weren't you the one with the wall of text about failed dreams etc? 🙂

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

I have met some folks in here who understand python, c, robotics at 16
I wish I started earlier

sour tartan Mar 19, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

@charred summit i am sure that you are not too old

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

I am just 20

sour tartan Mar 19, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

yeah. boo-hoo, so old! 🙂

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

yeah that was a copypasta…

#

i once met a 13 years old who talked about openbsd and C and other stuff like they were his buddies, but forget about that, focused times beats starting early.

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:46 PM

#

🙌🙌

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:46 PM

#

Agreed

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

I never met this side of the Python community till now

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

i started at 14 but i didn't progress much for a good decade, if you can focus, it's a lot easier now with all the resources on the net, i spent so much time looking for things in the rare instances i had access to the net back then.

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

This is so wholesome <3

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:48 PM

#

(but the internet did make it a lot harder to focus as well 😨 )

white karma Mar 19, 2020, 11:49 PM

#

I feel that pain

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:49 PM

#

I started at 16, learned through some free online courses for python and I had no idea what I was doing

#

😂😂

#

I still do feel like that sometimes

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:50 PM

#

anyway, i should certainly sleep now 🙂

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:50 PM

#

Well tbh I had started at 16 but I had very poor English back and I didn't know what to search
A few people told me that they learned from Google but it was a lie...
What I actually needed was getting interested in programming before starting it, I started from web hacking, tried to learn python 3 times, created a tool without understanding half of it, and left it, then again started at 19

#

It was a boring period but now I am so addicted to python

#

Nowadays when people ask me how you do it, I just give them some capture the flag hacking challenges, once they become interested then I give them programming resources

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:53 PM

#

Nice

#

It started similarly for me

#

I wanted to get into hacking and installed Kali Linux

#

Started messing with python scripts

#

Then I realized I had no idea what they did and so I wanted to write my own instead of being a script kiddie

#

Set out to learn python and started writing small simple programs and eventually i understood something

#

But it kinda change because during that time I stopped taking interest in kali Linux and hacking fad

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

There is an old myth that most people start from programming and then jump into hacking but that's not true at least not for me
Most start from breaking things and for the first time they do illegal things, then they grow up and understand how world works then make goals to master a few skill set

Lile there is a big community of bug bounty hunters out there, very few of them started from programming first, most have done crimes but they will never tell you but the same people start going things actually.

#

Similarly

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

I agree

#

I was pretty slow with things back then

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:57 PM

#

Now instead of kali
I have parrot home edition, it's just more civil, I understand it better

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:57 PM

#

I used tools to steal neighbours wifi

#

Then move towards learning the core

#

Now I use gentoo and arch

#

And WMs

#

I write python REST APIs and small scripts

torpid bolt Mar 19, 2020, 11:58 PM

#

i don't think most have done crimes, a lot of security researchers are just really interested in how things work, and trying to improve the state of the industry

charred summit Mar 19, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

It just seems like I had a few bad friends then pensive_lemon
But they are doing good now

vapid jay Mar 19, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

Is taking a CS course worth it?

#

Sometimes I feel like I can get the job done confidently that going to Uni for it is a waste

#

This is for at least a Jr dev

#

I don't want to sound or come off cocky/arrogant. I'm really into learning things in general and persistent in getting things done and done well

#

Im not too sure if spending all that money is worth

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:06 AM

#

i have a master's degree/engineering degree, and that's worth it in some sense, the theorical knowledge comes in handy sometime, and you have a good understanding of the general principles of how things work, but i wouldn't say you absolutely need it, as i often say, i've never been asked to write a quick sort or a compiler on the job.

#

(thankfuly)

#

so it really depends on where you want to go, i can't say how much it impact job's prospects, you'll have to do your research on that

#

i know i went back to the degree because the interesting jobs seemed (at least to me), all requiring 4 or 5 years of studies, and i only had 2

#

but that was 2008, it might not be as relevant now

#

google and other internet megacorps certainly appreciate diplomas though

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:09 AM

#

When is it usually that someone can confidently start applying for Jr dev jobs?

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:09 AM

#

I would love to say some realities of university life but then again a lot of professionals in here who I admire all agree that a degree helps a lot.
Still don't know how it helps, I mean what's the difference between two fullstack devs, one with degree and one without it...

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:09 AM

#

Or maybe it's just me

#

I'm really into full stack dev

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:11 AM

#

the backend dev that went to uni is more likely to know about normal form of database design

#

and it can have a large impact on the performance and maintability of their databases

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:12 AM

#

Check out one of my big projects, https://konishi.netlify.com the demo account is
username: demo@user.com
password: demo1234

#

I've been studying back end designing for some time now

#

Its really fun because of the logic that goes into it

sour tartan Mar 20, 2020, 12:13 AM

#

@vapid jay btw, one aspect of getting a job is professional demeanor. I know this is an informal place, but "retarded" can put people off.

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:14 AM

#

Noted

#

Apologies about that

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:14 AM

#

Me too @vapid jay , I am heading the road of fullstack with python, however people down here still rely on old sweet PHP, I am not much of pro in python, I just began understanding it's internals from a book of "Mark Lutz", It's not necessary for fullstack but something tells me that I need to master this language first, then move on to C#, I sometimes come visit the 'help' channels down here and I feel really bad that I can't understand things better, after like 176 days from now, I will finally get this done then I will come here again and ask so 'what's next'...

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:14 AM

#

"the content field may not be greater than 16000 characters" good job avoiding my spam

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:14 AM

#

hey everyone

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:14 AM

#

Hi

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

how is everyone doing?

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

Pretty good

#

Hbu?

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

not bad

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

@torpid bolt agreed but I am too much of a lone wolf, I want to do 'everything' on my own, rather than relying on a 'friend' who does front-end, another who does 'dbs'

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

taking a break from work

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

hi

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

at some point, collaboration is really useful to get bigger things done

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

there's only 24 hours in a day

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

I've felt that

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

so we have no choice but to rel yon others for assistance

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

It's hard to find someone reliable around your age with the same amount of free time to collaborate though

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

it's like to know a bit of everything, but if you want to focus on something specific to really research on, it's good to be able to count on other people to do the rest

#

finding good people to work with is not easy indeed

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

@charred summit I think it's mostly about understanding the concepts of each stack and less of a language issue

#

I tried different languages for back end for example

#

It didn't help but cause more confusion

#

I love python because it allows me to focus on what I'm actually building than the language getting in my way of properly writing my app

#

Haven't tried PHP thougn, don't plan to

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:19 AM

#

I agree tshirtman & jason but I have had some rough time working together especially while security analysis and programming, the list of people I want to work with are 0, I think I will need to fill my github with a few things and then find people to work with or actually meet a fullstack who is completely on his own and ask him how he did it....

#

Yeah @vapid jay , PHP is old now, but people still pay for it, it kills me that python is not at top of everyone 'hiring'

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

That's true

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

I like C# for mobile and windows app dev and then internals of windows, I just love studying windows and linux to the core

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

One of the things that my mentor tells me is that not to worry about which language is at the top one and focus on scalability and maintainability, to pick what makes that part easier

#

One of the things I realized is that python can scale pretty well and most web frameworks can take you past to the point that it isn't a bottleneck

#

Most likely it would end up being the DBs and Queries that bottleneck the service

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:26 AM

#

yeah, I have used python's flask framework, it was pretty neat, I didn't like django from the very first because it does too much work for you and that's not a good idea, I needed to draw blueprint myself.
then used sqlalchemy with flask, it made everything easy, the overall was really easy and pretty understandable however after 1 month I couldn't read my own code, sad!

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:29 AM

#

Flask is amazing

#

It can be structured in a scalable and maintainable way

#

I have a boilerplate for a Flask RESTX framework if you want some ideas

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:38 AM

#

haven't heard of RESTX

#

only REST without X

#

But I would like to see anyway, if that's ok?

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:40 AM

#

Sure

#

https://github.com/x1zeth2x/flask-restx-boilerplate

GitHub

X1Zeth2X/flask-restx-boilerplate

🔥 REST API written in Flask micro web framework with the Flask-RESTX framework. - X1Zeth2X/flask-restx-boilerplate

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:43 AM

#

thanks

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 12:44 AM

#

I'm hitting the deck

#

It was nice talking to you guys

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 12:44 AM

#

same

#

cya

frank ore Mar 20, 2020, 4:09 AM

#

Hello

#

Whos a software developer here

pale quest Mar 20, 2020, 7:11 AM

#

Nowadays when people ask me how you do it, I just give them some capture the flag hacking challenges, once they become interested then I give them programming resources
@charred summit sounds fun what do i need to know to do those

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

hmpf, the company that made my offer was telling me that they'll send contract soon

#

but it's been a week now : I

#

to start in may

#

i'm starting to stress Corona freezed their hiring process

fervent oyster Mar 20, 2020, 8:53 AM

#

It could be worth emailing, saying you understand they must be busy but it would be helpful for them to send it soon so you can be certain of your future

#

What's the freelance market like at the moment?

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 12:51 PM

#

@frank ore quite a few other people here i suspect, but i am

#

@shut geyser if they made the offer and you accepted it, they can't really get out of it, you might want to contact them to make sure everything is fine, though if you start in may, you still have some time (unless you already have a position and wanted to wait on that contract to announce you are leaving).

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 1:20 PM

#

yeah @torpid bolt that's the thing

#

(i have a position)

#

also if you have tips for papers when you move in NL my dms are open :p

#

i have to find an appartment in south in corona times

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 1:21 PM

#

yeah, that can be problematic in this case, make sure they know you are waiting

#

if you got & accepted an offer it should be safe to give your notice, but i understand if it doesn't feel comfortable

#

yeah well, i'm in temporary housing paid by company, and i asked for an extension for it (which i'll pay a part of), because visiting appartments now seems like a bad idea.

#

so i'll probably look more seriously in april/may, if things get better.

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

ah yeah

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

papers? as a EU citizen i only had a very simple registration requirement, you can do it online or in person, though it costs some 60€ to do it with some assistant, but the company paid for that so used that as it's easier.

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

ah okay seems simple

#

my move France -> Belgium was kinda painful paperwise

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 1:25 PM

#

south is a bit expensive, at least where i am, but if you go east/south east, it seems a bit cheaper

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 1:26 PM

#

yeah, it is quite expensive for some small city i've seen

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 1:33 PM

#

i've seen "affortable" places more in the north, but it's very far from work for me

#

more than 1h of commute, i'd rather avoid that

shut geyser Mar 20, 2020, 1:35 PM

#

yeah same

#

i'd like to get the bike lifestyle

torpid bolt Mar 20, 2020, 1:36 PM

#

🙂

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

@pale quest
Well, Here is what I did:
I wanted to become a hacker, a malicious one, I started from doing those CTFs, it became fun to complete them and get rewarded (points) for it, by the time I kept learning from root-me, I figured how many different fields of hacking are actually there, categories of web hacking, categories of server-side hacking, it was fun, then I started bug bounties and made a few bucks, this is where I stopped thought of blackhat.
But I couldn’t go forward with bounties, here is how those help you…
I came back to those CTFs, reviewed them properly and though about:
1: How about I create tools to find these bugs?

That’s when I started python from documentation and Arne’s book, and this time I could actually learn it because I had set goals, I knew what to do with it.
Every time I learned something new in python, I always thought “How to use this in one of my tools” .
During my time learning hacking, I always got notes, so these notes were like blueprints, I had notes like: “request non-existent files on a website and see if they give XML-like errors”, and I actually created these kind of tools.

As I learned about ‘features’ of python such as ‘eval’, I always thought “How can I use eval with WinAPI”.

They were good but not enough.
I did like 3 months of bug bounties and all I got was $500, it wasn’t enough, I had to do something bigger, that’s when I got into with development with Python Flask Framework.
And then I realised how poor my python knowledge has became, I reviewed 6 python books, I didn’t ask anyone “is this good?”, instead I went for reading them myself and seeing which one suits me. Then I found “Learning Python by Mark Lutz”, it’s a cool book that teach you about science of python.

So now when I think of “How these help me?”, these will help me a lot, especially since I chose to become a security analyst.

#

it was fun, then I started bug bounties and made a few bucks, this is where I stopped thought of blackhat.

#

yeah you didn't read 🙂

pale quest Mar 20, 2020, 2:51 PM

#

well guess i found a new read 😄

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

Well, https://root-me.org is a really easy one to get started with, then I am sure you will find your pathway

Bienvenue [Root Me : plate...

Root Me est une plateforme permettant à chacun de tester et d'améliorer ses connaissances dans le domaine de la sécurité informatique et du hacking à travers la publication de challenges, de solutions, d'articles.

vapid jay Mar 20, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

Mark Lutz - Learning Python is amazing.

charred summit Mar 20, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

yep, but I think readers should be a little familiar with C & python2.x syntax, its not really necessary but a little familiarity won't hurt because he points out differences and similarities between Python3.0, Python2.x and C

#

it's not for total beginners, I think documentation comes first then Arne's book and then this book... or may be not

river zinc Mar 20, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

Looking for a mock interview buddy ? DM me.

hazy pecan Mar 20, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

Doing a BSc in Data Science vs self teaching yourself Python for data science, opinions?
I'm looking for a 2nd Bachelor course and am unsure whether Data Science would be a good one, or whether I should stick to learning Python by myself

#

Asking here since I'm wondering whether employers care about the formal Data Science degree or whether you just need the necessary skills

gilded valley Mar 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

For CS/Software you might be able to self-teach. But for Data Science, companies seem to really want some kind of formal education

#

Although, I don't think employers really care about your degree title. They just want a high degree of proficiency in maths really

hazy pecan Mar 20, 2020, 8:07 PM

#

Is data science a relatively hard course? I'm a bit worried it'd be too time consuming to do on top of my other course

gilded valley Mar 20, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

I'm currently doing a Data Science degree (mediocre/bad university in the UK), and its not too difficult

hazy pecan Mar 20, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

That's atleast good to hear

#

I'm just not huge on maths

#

I don't necessarily struggle with it, but I don't really like it either
Studies where you generally just read texts and remember them hence seem quite a bit easier than a study where maths is essential and you'd have to practice it a lot

gilded valley Mar 20, 2020, 8:13 PM

#

Well, if you want to be good at data science you're gonna have to put a fair amount of practice. And the more advanced you want to get with data science, the more maths there will be

hazy pecan Mar 20, 2020, 8:14 PM

#

That's good to know, thanks

#

I don't specifically want to be a data scientist, so I'd need to think about whether doing a BSc in data science is worth it for me then and whether I could manage the time

heady idol Mar 20, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

Hello, just wanted to ask what are the "main" python careers (I know Data Science, Front/Back-End and machine learning) and how to choose one? Im a high schooler knowing the basics (using python from exams/contests) and want to start learning more specific python usage.

burnt tiger Mar 20, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

As far as present job volume goes, there's likely the most available jobs in front-end and back-end software development. Data science is a more specialized and current growing field that's certainly good to get into if it interests you, but it represents a smaller portion of the total job pool.

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

helping use your tech skills out for some corona virus projects might help a portfolio out

burnt tiger Mar 20, 2020, 11:29 PM

#

As far as working towards that, I would recommend learning the fundamentals of web development, working with and building REST APIs, interacting with databases, etc. As a project, you can work towards building a web application using django or flask that uses a local database (such as with MySQL/MariaDB, PostgreSQL, etc) to support persistent storage of data and CRUD operations. I wouldn't worry much about the "look and feel" of the web application immediately (do that part last), it's more so just to get a feel of all of the different moving parts.

dark rapids Mar 20, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

Just chiming in, I am currently finishing my bachelor in math and I am trying to get as much far from data science as possible

#

so basically back-end/web for me I suppose

#

or machine learning, even though I suppose that might have a bit of statistics in as well

sterile vault Mar 20, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

Got a test task for analyst position. Coding part was the easiest - reading and sorting of 2 excel files. But I was thinking mainly about non-coding part, so i basically made the simplest possible script in Jupyter. Barely any modularity, zero error handling, procedural AF. It does the job, but boy, it's ugly. And the worst part that i didn't really thought about them judging it until i sent the results back to HR.

woeful spruce Mar 20, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

nice

#

that doesn't sound too daunting

#

did you sort it using python?

sterile vault Mar 20, 2020, 11:52 PM

#

Yep. Basically, i needed to turn fields into a common format (some simple regexes from SO) and openpyxl for the rest

woeful spruce Mar 21, 2020, 12:00 AM

#

I probably would use Pandas, but they might've found that to be too cumbersome

cinder belfry Mar 21, 2020, 12:08 AM

#

at least with procedural code you know where to add error handling if you need it

#

i've seen spreadsheets i would not know how to correctly ingest into pandas

woeful spruce Mar 21, 2020, 12:11 AM

#

that's fair

#

it is basically a lot of parameters that you can use to clean it up

heady idol Mar 21, 2020, 10:29 AM

#

@burnt tiger Can you recommend aby books / example tasks source / tutorials for back-end?

vast shoal Mar 21, 2020, 11:19 AM

#

@dark rapids Machine learning is data science, though.

gilded valley Mar 21, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

Don't say that - Nix will get annoyed

vast shoal Mar 21, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

A subset, in any case.

dark rapids Mar 21, 2020, 12:28 PM

#

@dementati of course 🤦‍♂️

low owl Mar 21, 2020, 3:47 PM

#

Data Scince is hard for complete beginners, but for anyone with interest in math or at least 1 year of programming experience it should be relatively easy to catch up.
However, companies won't pay you well as a data scientist unless you have some other programming skills OR you are an actual scientist who can develop new machine learning algorithms.

#

Having said that, there is 2 distinct types of data science programmers: those who only use existing libraries to just process data into insights for the management (low pay), and those who develop machine learning algorithms that business relies on in daily operations (VERY high pay, companies like Uber, Tinder, Google, etc.)

#

Anyone can become 1st type, but for 2nd type you most likely will need formal masters degree and a lot of experience + great math feel/knowledge

#

For example, a lot of top tech companies "hunt" university professors on Director+ positions with salary 300K+ and a huge amount of benefits

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

So would you say an MSc in ML is required for these type of poisitons

#

@low owl

low owl Mar 21, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

Well, yes, in some cases PhD is preferred

#

But you need to know math

#

And know how machine learning works mathematically inside out

#

PhD or years of relevant experience

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

Okay that's good to know for me

low owl Mar 21, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

But most companies prefer PhDs because they know that that person can deliver something extraordinary that will give them competitive advantage

sterile vault Mar 21, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

Is 1st one and data analyst same thing, or are they distinct roles?

low owl Mar 21, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

Same thing tbh

#

Sometimes companies call 1st one "data scientist" as well, though it's more of a 2nd

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

Any backend devs here

lucid niche Mar 21, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

Anybody able to give me insight on working within computational engineering research? In my case, my undergraduate research is directed towards developing optimized computational tools. I'm pretty new and I'm loving it so far; I'd love to gain some info from other POV in my field or similar fields, as I'll be applying for grad school soon.

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

@turbid oyster ooh ooh that's me backend-boy

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

@vapid jay

#

!ask

inner wrenBOT Mar 21, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

Asking good questions will yield a much higher chance of a quick response:

• Don't ask to ask your question, just go ahead and tell us your problem.
• Don't ask if anyone is knowledgeable in some area, filtering serves no purpose.
• Try to solve the problem on your own first, we're not going to write code for you.
• Show us the code you've tried and any errors or unexpected results it's giving.
• Be patient while we're helping you.

You can find a much more detailed explanation on our website.

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

@radiant moon what stack do you mainly work with, and what type of advice would you give to someone aiming to be a junior backend dev in 1 - 2 years

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 5:49 PM

#

well unfortunately the stack I mainly work with now is 100% proprietary to my company

#

but the one website I built (https://teensy.info) uses Pyramid

#

my advice: build backend stuff, however you can manage it; apply for jobs (or internships)

obsidian acorn Mar 21, 2020, 6:00 PM

#

@vapid jay I would say to pick a language or two, create multiple projects with both front and backend (complete them ) focusing mostly on the backend

#

If you have someone who wants to learn front end, you can work as a team.

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 6:00 PM

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@radiant moon you didn’t need JS for that website right?

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Just HTML / CSS?

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Thanks for the straightforward advice

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 6:04 PM

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@vapid jay teensy.info indeed uses a lot of JS, but I didn't write any of it; I cargo-culted it

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in fact, in my source code I don't think there are any JS files. But (unfortuately) it has a "recaptcha" thing, which is a ton of javascript

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oh, at work in addition to proprietary stuff we use flask and gunicorn; other teams use nginx and some async thing whose name escapes me

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 6:06 PM

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@radiant moon why did you want to do backend > front end? How much SQL knowledge is required to be efficient at your job?

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 6:06 PM

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I wanted to avoid frontend stuff because I'd watched frontend developers at work, and it looked miserable 🙂

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they spent all their time chasing down differences between this browser and that, it seemed

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at my job I need more or less 0 SQL but that's because there's a company-wide edict to not use SQL databases 🙂

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I do however know a bit about dynamoDB, which is one of the "noSQL" databases

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so in general: SQL is useful

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avoid MySQL if you possibly can. use PostGres

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 6:08 PM

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Yes PostgreSQL is on my list of technology to learn this year

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Thanks a lot

gilded valley Mar 21, 2020, 6:09 PM

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Why on earth do you say SQL is awful?

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 6:19 PM

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me?

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I said it's "useful", not "awful"

vapid jay Mar 21, 2020, 6:19 PM

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I found it much more palatable once I learned about ORMs

gilded valley Mar 21, 2020, 6:26 PM

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Hah. I cant read

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Reading is definitely a useful skill. Don't be like me and make sure you read messages before replying

open patio Mar 21, 2020, 6:54 PM

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hey @radiant moon the link to teensy on gitlab is broken

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changing http to https works though

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 7:30 PM

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huh, I left it at http? Lemme see

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@open patio which link exactly?

open patio Mar 21, 2020, 7:32 PM

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the one in the description

📎 unknown.png

radiant moon Mar 21, 2020, 7:34 PM

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ah, thanks

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FTFY 🙂

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 8:25 PM

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What are people’s thoughts about a conversion msc in comp sci

limber rampart Mar 21, 2020, 8:35 PM

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I guess it depends on your overall background and the exact course that you choose to do, my friend coming from a law background is a doing a conversion course like that and to me it feels like a lot of the topics they cover are fairly surface level and more aimed at people who would still like to work with law but more computing oriented subfields

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that particular course is specifically law -> CS though, so it may be different to a pure CS conversion course

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when thinking of getting any kind of a degree I would always advise that you give a very thorough read to the exact course specification that you are considering as even CS courses across various universities can vary a lot, and you also shouldn't be afraid to speak directly to the university, they always have some advice centre that will be very happy to answer your concerns and may be able to get you in touch specifically with the school of sciences / engineering etc and there you can speak directly to the people that lead the course

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 8:44 PM

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Ahh ok ok, that was one of my worries - they seem pretty basic considering they are willing to take students from a wide range of backgrounds

limber rampart Mar 21, 2020, 8:47 PM

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yea the particular course that my friend is doing feels more like "we'll give you adequate education to be a tech / computing lawyer"

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but, again, that's just one specific course

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 8:52 PM

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Yhh, the reason I ask is cus I’m finding self teaching kinda difficult but at the same time I’m not sure an msc is the most efficient way to go

limber rampart Mar 21, 2020, 8:58 PM

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have you tried supporting your self teaching with some online course, for example the MIT ones are free and I see them get recommended a lot

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https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/

Unlocking knowledge, empowering minds. Free course notes, videos, instructor insights and more from MIT.

opaque silo Mar 21, 2020, 9:14 PM

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Thanks will have a look

tame escarp Mar 22, 2020, 12:59 AM

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How do i check if two sets are equivalent?

sour tartan Mar 22, 2020, 1:00 AM

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s1 == s2

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 1:00 AM

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Not in #career-advice

sour tartan Mar 22, 2020, 1:00 AM

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(why is this question in #career-advice )

tame escarp Mar 22, 2020, 1:00 AM

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oh oops sorry

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 2:13 PM

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does anyone work in security here

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Vaguely related. What's the question?

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what are some good resources for learning identity & access management

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concepts or implementation in Python?

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python examples would be great

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general concepts

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ok. In the context of a Webserver and the clients are actual humans? (In contrast to Internet of Things and such)

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yeah the web server and client one I've seen but idk anything really

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Ok. I think I can just give you some search terms to get you started. What you want to look for is "authentication" and "authorization". Please google a bit until you understand the difference. Read the wikipedia article for both. Once you think you understood the concepts you can search for "Django authentication" this will give you best practice in Python. Solved?

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yeah i'll start with that, thanks!

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👍

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I'm looking for insights into FinTech: Essential concepts and important libraries and frameworks (not necessarily limited to Python)

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 2:50 PM

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Adding to this: I am already aware of how to create distributed, fault-tolerant services and I am seeking insight into the specifics of FinTech

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 4:05 PM

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I'd assume 99% of FinTech is regulatory compliance

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 4:46 PM

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That sounds far less exciting than I assumed

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 4:48 PM

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I'd assume that if I worked in Fin Tech I'd want to kill myself from tedium every day

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that's just me being bigoted, though; I don't have any actual experience

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:33 PM

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it certainly depends on what the company actually does, but compliance is very important, generating report of everything the company does.

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i have limited experience of it, i started like this month working for a trading company, so there is a lot of tech to automate the trades, but there is also a lot to monitor and report everything.

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 5:40 PM

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some time ago I met a guy I used to work with. He'd moved into another group that dealt with credit-card payments. I asked him "how much of your time is spent dealing with compliance" and he said "like 90%". He might have been exaggerating, but I took his point -- it was a lot, and he wasn't happy

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:49 PM

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I would assume in trading algorithm a lot less compliance is required, as the decisions it makes are essentially the core business value of the respective company. Internal monitoring is of course always a good idea.

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@torpid bolt Are you directly involved with the trading algos?

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:50 PM

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no

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and if i was, you can imagine i couldn't give you much information about how it works 🙂

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:51 PM

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Well, I assume the tech stack is public information

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:52 PM

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but i know that everything that is traded, every position the company holds, has to be reported to financial market autority, every day

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:52 PM

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I mean trading algorithms do not necessarily mean HF-trading

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:52 PM

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yeah, this is HF though

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:53 PM

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Oh, yeah then I definitely understand the secrecy. I have always been wondering whether some guys are doing a sentiment analysis of some online sources with inferencing algos on FPGAs, but I guess that I will never know :/

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:54 PM

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well there is one way to know 🙂

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:55 PM

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Several come to mind actually. The most profitable one being to collect some money an do HF-trading by implementing inferencing on FPGAs 😄

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 5:56 PM

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one thing i can say is that all the trivial ways to get on the better end of a deal have been fished out for quite some time 🙂

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 5:57 PM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/6a4ovi/two_economists_walk_down_a_road/

r/Jokes - Two economists walk down a road...

166 votes and 16 comments so far on Reddit

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 5:59 PM

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Dangerous. And invisible hand might appear and turn Adam Smith around in his grave.

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 6:01 PM

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oh, they still look for the no brainer opportunities, well, machines do, and if they see something that is not fished out, they will absolutely go for it (though they'll try to take a small amount of time to double check why, before it disappears)

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but the top answer is truish, if someone sells a new network access that is 1us faster than the previous one, everybody will pay for it

opaque silo Mar 22, 2020, 7:09 PM

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What are the pure fundamentals of CS that will help me later on?
I'd like to learn the foundation and build from there like math and programming and algorithm theory, but do you think learning details about how languages work and compilers, or fully understanding hardware or even operating systems are as necessary in this sense as the other areas Im more interested in learning

torpid bolt Mar 22, 2020, 7:16 PM

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it really depends on what you are going to work on, most developpers don't develop a language for their work, or new algorithms, and they rarely write or even debug compilers, but some obviously do, and their work is quite important for the others. For algos, depending on the company, using the proper data structure or algorithm can result in incredible savings (compared to "working" alternatives, that are insanely more costly at scale), but it's not true of all companies, and in most jobs, finding a cost effective solution that anybody can maintain (so doesn't require advanced knowledges), can be more important.

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https://danluu.com/algorithms-interviews/ is an article i like about how even at companies where it's incredibly important to get this right, programmers often get it wrong, even when the companies tried to only recruit developers that would get it right.

opaque silo Mar 22, 2020, 7:26 PM

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interesting read, thank you for the insight as well

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 7:56 PM

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tl;dr

marsh wind Mar 22, 2020, 7:59 PM

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lmao i opened it to bookmark just to find that it was already bookmarked 😂

charred summit Mar 22, 2020, 10:15 PM

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To people who are already working as web developers.

When you code something with a nasty bug, for example a bug that leads to “insecure direct object reference” that can cause immediate account takeover, do you actually get fired when the damage is done, or get fined if the damage is really high, or remain in job?

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 10:18 PM

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can't say I've written that kinda bug myself, happily

vapid jay Mar 22, 2020, 10:22 PM

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well, you cannot get fined personally, this is not how jobs work. Whether you get fired depends on the country.

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 10:26 PM

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honestly if that were to happen where I work, I'd expect it to look like this:

big bug gets found
guilty party, along with teammates, writes a lengthy document explaining how and why they (&(&ed up, and why it won't happen again
two months later, guilty party quits to "spend more time with his family"

charred summit Mar 22, 2020, 10:31 PM

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Thanks for the answers, there are also some other "mistakes" that developers make, personally I haven't found those mistakes yet but some developers leave private API keys and emails behind, in GitHub, some folks in bug bounty world find lots of those and report it.
Technically that's not a security flaw in a system but a mistake made by a developer, what about this type of scenario?

https://hackerone.com/reports/388740

HackerOne

Homebrew disclosed on HackerOne: GitHub API Key for BrewTestBot is...

Hello!

While browsing through some old reports, I found that https://jenkins.brew.sh was publicly accessible. I got curious when I saw one of the brew bottle builds doing a git push to BrewTestBot/homebrew-core...

radiant moon Mar 22, 2020, 10:33 PM

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I dunno

torpid bolt Mar 23, 2020, 11:40 PM

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developpers are going to make mistakes, it's easy to blame them, but if it's a honnest mistake, not something they intentionally hid in their code for exploit, you have to question what allowed this mistake to go all the way to production, if the developpers are on their own, and nobobdy proofreads the code, you are going to see bad code in production, and sometime it'll be really insecure code. So the management is at least as much to blame as the developer, for letting it happen.

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If the code was reviewed by multiple engineers, including senior ones, and was still allowed to go to production and cause damage, you have some digging to do, was the mistake obvious (without the benefit of hindsight)? Is your team inept or overworked? Is your system too complex? Lesson from the mistake is usually bigger than "this person shouldn't work here".
i don't know if developers doing exceptionally bad mistakes are going to be fired, i thankfuly didn't see any mistake worth firing someone over happen (well, at least noone was ever fired).

vapid jay Mar 24, 2020, 4:59 AM

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guys

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can you recommend some books for cracking coding interview with big tech

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or any resources (video)

tight hollow Mar 24, 2020, 5:35 AM

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Literally there book is called Cracking the Coding Interview

charred summit Mar 24, 2020, 6:03 AM

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@torpid bolt thank you
so if I go for freelancer and develop something, do I need to learn secure coding and take care of a range of vulnerabilities such as XSS, SSRF, SQLi, CSRF beforehand?
well I have thought of crawling over the web and grabbing everyone's little exploits and then blacklisting them for user inputs, but I am not really that good with web security or secure coding in general, now in freelance jobs, am I expected to code really secure things or just apply simple rules of Flask which take care of CSRF & SQLi most of time or do I need to work with a fella security researcher?

charred summit Mar 24, 2020, 6:22 AM

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The answers I have got so far tells me that I can mess up and still remain in job, I think what I really need to do is develop those core skills and began right away but would like to know if I need to buy hackthebox pro and began hacking right away to upgrade skills a better more...

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Or just remain in development phase for now

torpid bolt Mar 24, 2020, 8:24 AM

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It's good to know about these issues, mostly you need to learn to build apps in ways that avoid these flaws, blacklisting known exploits is not going to cut it, using the python db api or an orm correctly will completely get ride of sqli injections for example. But i feel this is outside of the topic for here, there is a security topic iirc where you can ask for more info.

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 2:32 PM

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I don't know how off-topic this is but here goes. I'm really interested in Cybersecurity, thing is my current majors are CS and Applied Stats. I don't know whether to switch to CS and Applied Maths/Pure maths or keep my choices as is and do a specialisation after my degree. Any advice?

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 4:34 PM

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!lfw

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!

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!rank

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ok then

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hello all, I'm a programmer by millage looking for work since they ended my last job due to corporate restructuring. it was cyber analyst developer which I tried to automate job processes in the Incident Response platform. I had earned my EnCE and recently earned my GIAC Certified Incident Handler cert. I took the Python and automation course earlier but not sure if they had a cert for that yet.

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If anyone has any advice for position titles to search for I'd greatly appreciate it

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@late rain does your school have any Cybersecurity programs or classes?

mild zenith Mar 24, 2020, 5:41 PM

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@jagged ruin Hi there. Unfortunately we don't really have a place for "looking for work" stuff like this, as we're not a jobs board. We do however have some links in this channel's description that can help you out!

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... and I only just now reread it and see it's more of a "looking for advice" rather than "looking for job". Either way, the links should prove helpful

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 5:47 PM

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@mild zenith thank you appreciate the advice. I'll take a look bc basically needing another direction that lends well to my background.

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 6:30 PM

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@jagged ruin Only the Comp Sci Master's program has it as one of the courses

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 6:31 PM

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@late rain ok then do they have any "security/hacker clubs" where they travel around and do CTF challenges?

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 6:35 PM

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Nope, none that I'm aware of

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 6:35 PM

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@late rain at my school when I got my BS in CS they didn't have either. They have a club now but not sure if there are any classes.

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You might want to specialize after getting your degree. If anyone else wants to speak up for good base CS classes to take. I'd suggest if they have networking, maybe assembly, Python

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 6:38 PM

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Yeah, we're doing Python now, Networking 2nd and 3rd year. Not sure about assembly but I can find out

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What's a good way to learn more about the field and improve my knowledge without being overwhelmed? There's an Ethical hacking course over the winter holidays (don't know if it's gonna be suspended due to the pandemic) maybe I should sign up for that

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 6:41 PM

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Good we didn't have Python just C++ maybe C# near the end. Networking they had theoretical stuff only like the traveling salesman problem. Ohh yes Ethical hacking course especially if that's at your school try to take that.

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Sadly it's not, it's at a coding academy, so to speak. But hey, I'm glad they're offering it.
Is there a good book you'd recommend?

jagged ruin Mar 24, 2020, 6:45 PM

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ah sorry to hear that but yeah if they're offering. my previous employer offered additional courses once a year for us. I was able to take two before my job ended and one of them let me earn a certificate.

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hmm

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I can give you a recommendation or two, however, some get out of date so quickly and I'm definitely more entry level cybersecurity still

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if anyone has better ideas

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Hacker Playbook 2, Black Hat Python, Violent Python

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at least the python books don't go out of date as quickly also some good exercises to work through

vapid jay Mar 24, 2020, 6:49 PM

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As a developer, it's really easy for me to find online communities where I can connect with my peers. It is, however, very difficult for me to find communities where I can connect to other professionals and have meaningful dialogue with them. How can I connect with the marketers, business analyst, and accountants? Where are the communities for the lawyers, salespeople, and PR? Nearly every interactions I have with someone who is in a different discipline than myself is valuable, and I crave more, I just don't know where to find it.

late rain Mar 24, 2020, 6:59 PM

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@jagged ruin Thank you very much, man 🙇🏿‍♂️

tight hollow Mar 24, 2020, 7:42 PM

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@vapid jay linkedin maybe?

vapid jay Mar 24, 2020, 7:44 PM

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@tight hollow Someone else suggested that. It's a but more formal than I'd like, but it seems like the best option.

tight hollow Mar 24, 2020, 7:45 PM

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Might need premium for it to be efficient. but people generally respond well as long as I'm professional and direct

burnt tiger Mar 24, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Yeah, I second LinkedIn. I've gotten quite a few DMs from local recruiters on there, and there are quite a few professional developer groups

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The most recent one was from Amazon's AWS team. The job opportunity didn't work out for a number of reasons, but I was impressed that they reached out to me through LinkedIn

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They also have some great devs behind their core infrastrasture. In particular, Barry Warsaw works there as a Senior Staff Engineer (he's one of 5 on the Python Steering Council; they're responsible for making major decisions that govern the development of the language)

inner zealot Mar 25, 2020, 2:32 AM

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Finally getting settled into my new job that i sneakily got. Ive gotten my ass handed to me with the IT work, way harder than I expected

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my experience fixing computers for grandparents and setting up minecraft servers did not completly come through for this

radiant moon Mar 25, 2020, 2:33 AM

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heh

inner zealot Mar 25, 2020, 2:33 AM

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but after all that IT fiasco, Im doing programming now finally!

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creating a script to help the research team gather data faster

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I mean, I get paid 13 dollars an hour, but its way better than working at starbucks

vapid jay Mar 25, 2020, 4:17 AM

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congrats

charred summit Mar 25, 2020, 4:17 AM

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Congo

burnt tiger Mar 25, 2020, 4:29 AM

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Nice, I'm sure the experience will definitely pay off

tight hollow Mar 25, 2020, 4:32 AM

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props

next current Mar 25, 2020, 7:55 AM

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Hi! I am interested in a career of applying data science to the world of finance and/or Real Estate, hopefully becoming a Quant one day. Little background info, I am 18 and have an internship this summer at an Asset Management Firm, which once I complete, I will be training full time for a Real Estate Investment/Consultant Group to eventually replace their Jira administrator. I had been learning Python on my own but decided it was ultimately inefficient to task myself to aimlessly start small projects with no idea where it was heading. I decided I am going with Codecademy because I tried it for 7 days and the interactive teaching style really works for me and the 40$ a month is well worth the personal investment in myself to learn in a way I like to learn. Just curious if any seasoned Python and maybe even SQL centered programmers could point me in the right direction for things they wish they should've done starting out, any other skills I should be building now so that I have a competitive edge in the job market, what kind of portfolio of work I should be building? Thx 🙂

vapid jay Mar 25, 2020, 1:05 PM

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I can't imagine what you could do in real estate..

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but in finance, it's about anomaly prediction and forecasting.. very essential skills

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quants and a little bit of R or python will help you along with this

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you don't need to focus intensively on the coding part if you're solid on quants and time series analysis.. it's just that sort of field, that still relies on tools like SAS

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let me link a resource from this professor I know

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welp.. couldn't remember his name

torpid bolt Mar 25, 2020, 1:20 PM

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this place is not for recruitment

vast shoal Mar 25, 2020, 2:00 PM

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@vapid jay Like @torpid bolt said, this place is not for recruitment. This channel is for career advice, but we also do not allow recruitment on this server.

nocturne snow Mar 25, 2020, 3:45 PM

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Hey guys, curious about your opinion

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I got accepted for Master of Information Systems Management at CMU, but also considering Columbia/UChicago, all of which will cost ~85-120k. In europe, I can get my degree for free practically at TU Delft or ETH Zurich, but I feel like the job market is much better in the US, and also worth the price of the degree. What do you think?

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Since after getting a grad degree in the US, you can get working much more easily with the J-1 student visa

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Looking to get either into big tech, tech consulting or fintech.

vast shoal Mar 25, 2020, 3:54 PM

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The job market is really good in Europe as well.

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I can't say for certain, but I would imagine that it would be feasible to get hired at a US company once you have some working experience in Europe.

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So I don't really see what the point of going into six figure debt in the US would be if you can avoid it.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, Americans.

white karma Mar 25, 2020, 4:01 PM

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Take the free education

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You can always work in or with America later

vapid jay Mar 25, 2020, 4:44 PM

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do ethical hackers have stable income?

eager tree Mar 25, 2020, 4:47 PM

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Depends

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If they rely on things like bug bounties, maybe not, but if they're an employed pen tester? Yeah I'd think so.

vapid jay Mar 25, 2020, 4:48 PM

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is python good for ethical hacking etc

eager tree Mar 25, 2020, 4:49 PM

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dude...

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The answer is yes kinda

opal perch Mar 25, 2020, 4:50 PM

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Hey guys, curious about your opinion
@nocturne snow You will 100% be able to get a job almost anywhere in the world with a degree from TU Delft or ETH Zurich. Zurich is anyway one of the tech hubs of the world, and you have plenty of other tech hubs in europe such as london, berlin. So don't worry about that, just choose where you want to go most or where you'll be happiest

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and like others have said, you will definitely be able to work in the US.

next current Mar 25, 2020, 4:53 PM

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@torpid bolt hi, I’m sorry if it sounded like I was looking for a job here lol, if you read the end of my message it was just me wanting some advice to see if a more seasoned programmer could give me some tips to make sure I’m on the right path.

marsh wind Mar 25, 2020, 5:03 PM

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ETH Zurich is among the world best schools

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so I'd go with it honestly. If you do well there I don't think you will have issues geting job in EU/US afterwards

opal perch Mar 25, 2020, 5:09 PM

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+1 to that, although columbia is also top 20 in the world.

marsh wind Mar 25, 2020, 5:15 PM

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yeah but that one would be

~85-120k.

opal perch Mar 25, 2020, 5:15 PM

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Yea true. I would pick ETH anyday of the week.

torpid bolt Mar 25, 2020, 5:37 PM

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@next current that message wasn't for you, it was for a message just before mine that was since deleted

fringe heart Mar 25, 2020, 11:36 PM

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Hey guys, should I change my career in the next months/years?

[tldr: I studied Civil Engineering, should have studied CS, I have a good job atm but I'd love to go full dev and I'm sure this is the future. I'm hesitating if I should invest full time into that project.]

I'm 29yo, I've been a computer addict since my first one at 10yo but spent too much time playing and smoking weed during my 15-25 age period. I've learned a bit of web dev at 13-14y, mostly PHP, and at that time I thought I was going to study & work in Computer Science.
Unfortunately my first job experience (4 weeks internship at 14,5y) was in a computer repair shop, it was boring as hell and changed all my plans. Went to high school, started my sex drugs & rock'n'roll period, got into engineering school. Basically my dev skills didn't evolved much during those 10y.
I've made into a cheap but very selective MBA, only for engineers, to become a Sales Engineer.
Got very good jobs evolution, I am atm Regional Sales Director in a HR program of international company to incubate young future corporate directors.

In each position I used a lot python to help me improve sales, business intelligence, etc. As it was not in my job description, my bosses were telling me "you should sell, not code", I've done most of it at home, learning by myself.

I am now learning more on the front end side and getting better at backend also.
For sure I'm not a good dev, like I can do 4-5 kyus on Codewars, but get headache for 1-3 kyus.

I'm telling everyone I know that struggle with career to start learning to code, as it will be the future. I'm convinced that the demand is growing faster that the offer.

I love programming. I regret every day that I choose the wrong path when I was 15. Should have uninstalled WoW, I should have gone to CS instead of Civil.

My job is okay, lot of pressure and good salary and stuff, but idk.. Is it too late? Is it dumb?

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(sorry for long post, if I seem condescending or smth like that, this is not the case and I'm also sorry, I envy most of you guys)

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 4:57 AM

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Hello Guys I am 18 yr old Kid, A college Dropout working at a medical center, The plus point I can work on the computer and usually create spreadsheets and recently from the past few months i have been considering to learn python and have started with basics and go do something with my ideas. While I think I can do anything But i Am stuck were to go after learning the python language, should i go for a different job or apply knowledge in my workplace or just go for degree in cs but due to money problems i have to atleast work for a year so i can create the funds for college. I am always getting stuck in something or the other or get easily distracted I feel like I need a teacher who can guide me and just show me what i have to learn and do in this big field called the computers.

haughty brook Mar 26, 2020, 10:12 AM

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Hey guys I have finished two online courses on python.
I know all the basics and some intermediate stuff (looking to dive into ml and ds in the future). can I get a simple online job like some hours (freelance) with these qualifications?

eager tree Mar 26, 2020, 10:15 AM

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Realistically probably not at the moment, there are a lot of people out there so it's hard to compete.

haughty brook Mar 26, 2020, 10:17 AM

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oh ok

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what about online freelancing sites?

eager tree Mar 26, 2020, 10:19 AM

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That's what I mean

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I mean give it a go if you want but it's a tough market

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And to be honest I think 'intermediate' stuff won't really cut it when there are loads of people competing

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:21 PM

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guys

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can you help me frame a sentence..

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I need to list a point on a resume, but English isn't my first language.. so I'm unsure of this

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Currently leading an international team in data platform development on a budget of US$500K.

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it's a project.. but i'm not sure how to frame this sentence

cobalt lark Mar 26, 2020, 12:29 PM

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(there is an English discord server at the invite english with around 40k people, you could try there too)

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:30 PM

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wow.. there's a server for everything

cobalt lark Mar 26, 2020, 12:30 PM

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Yep haha

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:31 PM

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hmm I'm not sure if it's a language server.. or for the country

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because it had the UK flag on it

cobalt lark Mar 26, 2020, 12:32 PM

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The icon is animated, all english speaking country flags are on it

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:33 PM

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alrighty

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I saw your message.. I can't reply there for 10 minutes since I just joined the server

mint owl Mar 26, 2020, 12:33 PM

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"Currently leader of an international team with a $500k budget for data platform development."

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?

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:33 PM

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wow.. that sounds much better :<

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some day, I'll learn English

mint owl Mar 26, 2020, 12:34 PM

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it highlights that you're the leader more

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and the value of the team

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and then the thing

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:34 PM

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that makes so much sense...

mint owl Mar 26, 2020, 12:34 PM

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"i am the boss of an expensive project which is this"

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:35 PM

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as opposed to.. I'm the boss of project that costs this much

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yeah.. I see it now, after you've told me.. it's very helpful

formal belfry Mar 26, 2020, 12:38 PM

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@vapid jay Perhaps a better idea would be to write it in your native language and then translate? That way you could structure it as you like rather than trying to structure it in English.

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 12:40 PM

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translating is why it ended up that way :v

formal belfry Mar 26, 2020, 12:52 PM

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Which language originally?

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:19 PM

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@fringe heart no, its not too late, not even close, stop procrastinating and get on with it

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@blissful lodge It depends what area interests you. You are only 18 and if you can afford to do a CS degree in the next year or so that is a good idea.

Some companies these days do look at experience if you dont have a degree.

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:31 PM

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so is it possible to write programs to solve my real life problems and then see whether my solution can solve the problems of people having similar problems related to my initial problems. Will this solution code that i write, Can I write or put it on my resume or can i brag about it. Is this mentality right or am i just being immature due to my age??

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

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Putting your own projects in a repo and applying for jobs might give you good insight into how prepared and how ready you are for roles

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Learn good software fundamentals such as SOLID principles and understanding basic OOP will benefit you in the long run when showing off projects

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:35 PM

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well due to covid-19 i am not getting any work (BTW i stay at my workplace ) so i have a vacation of 21 days (india ) now i am just overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you can learn online

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but i have learnt cs in pre university but applying it in real life is totally different task. I always have fun coding cause like i usually see a example written for conditional operators then i usually get side tracked on the things i can add in the example or my ideas or i give myself small problems to solve and write a code on that

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so when you have a problem "write a program to find the weekly pay of the workers". For me it becomes "write a way to take in information of the worker, find out his age and sex and after finding out his age and sex write different output for different input of age and sex and then find out how much each person would get for his hours of work he put in that week" and this always gets me stuck on me finding solutions to solve the problem i made which is way far from the initial start.

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:45 PM

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part of good coding practices is to write the least amount of code possible to get your wanted outcome, so many you need to learn some programming fundamentals if you have a problem with getting into a complicated state

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breaking down a big tasks into small steps that are easy to complete is a skill you need to learn

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rather than worrying about a massive application later down the line

mild zenith Mar 26, 2020, 5:47 PM

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There should be a clarification there, that doesn't mean a crap ton of oneliners

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:47 PM

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^

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i mentioned further up about solid principles and basic oop principles

mild zenith Mar 26, 2020, 5:48 PM

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Gotcha gotcha, just figured it should be explicitly clarified. Some people see "less code" and automatically try to condense everything into horrifying monsters

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:48 PM

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but yes theres always room for expansion on top of just writing the simplest thing possible

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i completely agree 👍

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:48 PM

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yeah i realised that in my college days when they thought us c and c++ they did not teach us how to apply but gave us bland example to learn but later you realise c and c++ is a good language to discipline yourself in writing clean code

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well python makes it much easier writing your ideas into codes

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:49 PM

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a good understanding of TDD, solid and OOP will set you on the right path

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plenty of people here that can point you in the right direction

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:51 PM

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so when i landed my first job i still had a initial obsession with learning C++ but it was hard to apply any of my knowledge in work but when i thought of giving python a try it was much easier

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right now i want to write clean codes and build a app to take in my data of my work place and automatically convert it into spreadsheets

neon moat Mar 26, 2020, 5:51 PM

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python is just a tool to do a job

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 5:52 PM

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^^

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:52 PM

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and then visualise my information

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 5:52 PM

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am i the only one who doesnt know to resolve task i got

blissful lodge Mar 26, 2020, 5:53 PM

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@neon moat got that point across, yes its just a tool 👍

vapid jay Mar 26, 2020, 5:53 PM

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yes

brisk topaz Mar 26, 2020, 8:50 PM

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hello

sturdy axle Mar 26, 2020, 11:24 PM

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What would a company look for in a junior dev if they mainly work with Python?

white karma Mar 26, 2020, 11:26 PM

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Proficiency of the basics plus whatever system they use

sturdy axle Mar 26, 2020, 11:26 PM

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Basics as in?

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I feel a lot of the “basics” are subjective for people

gilded valley Mar 26, 2020, 11:28 PM

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OOP programming, familiarity with the way stuff on the web works, experience with rest apis

sleek field Mar 27, 2020, 12:20 AM

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Any advice on finding work as a developer? (Not looking for an actual job)

white karma Mar 27, 2020, 12:38 AM

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Put yourself out there

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But don’t lie about what you can and can’t do

sleek field Mar 27, 2020, 12:43 AM

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What’s the best platform to look for work on?

eager tree Mar 27, 2020, 12:44 AM

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Depends what type of work you’re going for, I’d say having a linkedin is quite important, other than that it really varies

sleek field Mar 27, 2020, 12:44 AM

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Freelance ig

eager tree Mar 27, 2020, 12:47 AM

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What sort of freelance

sleek field Mar 27, 2020, 12:48 AM

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Wdum?

eager tree Mar 27, 2020, 12:48 AM

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In any particular area?

white karma Mar 27, 2020, 12:48 AM

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There’s a lot of freelance work to do

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Believe it or not

eager tree Mar 27, 2020, 12:49 AM

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The problem is there are a lot of freelancers to do it

white karma Mar 27, 2020, 12:49 AM

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Yeah

eager tree Mar 27, 2020, 12:49 AM

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It’s very hard to compete