#career-advice | Python | Page 292

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 8:54 PM

#

sorry im really sick atm and my brain is not braining

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 8:56 PM

#

Ah! I went when I was a kid 🙂 I was very disappointed to find that there is no big pink castle in Tobermory, Balamory lied to me 😂

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 8:57 PM

#

yup

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 8:57 PM

#

Yeah you're going to have a tough time if you can't relocate, I'm afraid remote tech work is hugely competitive at the moment

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 8:57 PM

#

oof

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 8:57 PM

#

And I can't imagine Mull has a roaring tech scene 😅

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 8:59 PM

#

ye the boot camp dose offer career support on fixing ur cv prepping for interviews and other things after u get through it i thought that was pritty good

#

and it remote. mull is dead for it stuff

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 9:02 PM

#

wicked knot ye the boot camp dose offer career support on fixing ur cv prepping for intervie...

Honestly all of this stuff you can get online for free, too 🙂

By all means send a link over to the bootcamp and I'll take a look. It sounds like the bigger challenge may be landing a role rather than developing the skills. Would you be looking to stay in Mull? Is there a reason you're not open to relocating? Not trying to push, just to feel out options.

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 9:04 PM

#

im up to going anywhere but i 2orking atm and i wanted to study while working.

https://bootcamps.manchester.ac.uk/software-engineering/

i thought this was really good tbh

Software Engineering online course | 3-6 months

Become a software engineer in 3-6 months with our online coding bootcamp.

#

im doing it over six months

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 9:05 PM

#

wicked knot im up to going anywhere but i 2orking atm and i wanted to study while working. ...

Ah gotcha, so is you wanting to stay in Mull just for the course of your study, then?

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 9:06 PM

#

that and the current job im doing its seasonal

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 9:13 PM

#

There's a frustratingly low amount of info on the bootcamp, it only shows the bare bones of what you cover in the first section and then no info on the other 3. From what I can see, it unfortunately looks far from sufficient.

Realistically in the current market, I think you'd need at least a year and a half to 2 years of full time study to be able to compete for roles, and that's assuming hybrid/in office rather than remote where the bar is higher.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... I still think tech is a great field to be in, but the outlook for entry level roles is pretty dire at the moment, and you're starting from 0.

wicked knot May 24, 2026, 9:15 PM

#

so im fucked then even if i do my own outside study as well

solid parcel May 24, 2026, 9:17 PM

#

wicked knot so im fucked then even if i do my own outside study as well

It's relative. Yes, it's going to take a while to get into the field. It's fully achievable if you're prepared to put in the work, though. And once you are in, the pay is well above average compared to other sectors, the work is often interesting and varied, and there's greater flexibility around working patterns than in many other industries.

chrome hamlet May 24, 2026, 10:49 PM

#

Market is just very bad for entry level roles right now. I think companies are trying to figure out how they’re going to properly do their traditional entry level roles. In my company they paused hiring grads…

mortal wedge May 24, 2026, 11:04 PM

#

We're in a phase(?) where all entry level jobs in tech are being outsourced to Gen AI. Who knows when or if that will change.

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 9:50 AM

#

gimme job :^)

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 9:50 AM

#

Noh, gimme job. :v

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 9:51 AM

#

This is not an off-topic channel.

north prairie Jul 23, 2018, 9:54 AM

#

@wanton holly u want a job?

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 9:55 AM

#

eventually, yes :P

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 10:07 AM

#

haz job

#

but no Python in there 😢

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:08 AM

#

There's a few people here that use Python in their jobs

#

@rare sand would be my go-to example

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

if by "use Python in my job" you mean I'm a full time python dev, then yes.

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

Haha. yes.

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

So is this channel related to finding / sharing careers, or talk about them?

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

It's not a recruitment channel, but you can talk about basically anything else related

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

Just clarifying 👌🏾

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:10 AM

#

the meta ticket asked for a place to bring career questions and get in touch with people who already have experience doing python professionally

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:10 AM

#

@karmic bramble, make a reason to use Python.

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:10 AM

#

stuff like.. what will the interview process be like? how should my resume look? what do I need to know?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

Can i just pretend i asked those 3 questions now?

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

Can I also pretend I asked those questions, but want different answers than what @vivid dock gets?

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

You'll be thrown into a snake pit and have to tame all the Pythons down there.

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

ooo, exciting python Whip

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

it's a little bit off-topicy in here

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:11 AM

#

what @wide harbor said

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:12 AM

#

yeah, this is a serious discussion channel

#

like the other two channels in this category

#

abuse it and lose it. :P

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 10:12 AM

#

kk, leaves

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:12 AM

#

I am serious about the interview process at least.

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:12 AM

#

I'm serious about the resume and interview part. 🤷

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:13 AM

#

^

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:14 AM

#

the interview processes I've been through have usually started with an informal chat with a high ranking member of the org - like a CTO or a Lead Dev. this chat would usually be quite extensive, going into detail about all my previous jobs, my side projects, anything I'd mentioned in a resume. also they'd tell me a lot about their tech stack, their overall atmosphere, any benefits, and so on.

#

then if that person OK's you, it's on to a technical aptitude test. In every interview I attended, this was a "solve this problem while one of our guys watches over your shoulder" type deal

#

the problems were fairly straight forward

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:14 AM

#

Would they care that my GitHub has a questionable picture of a cat girl for the profile picture? GWgoaThinken

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:15 AM

#

take gdude for example

#

:^)

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:15 AM

#

like "write a function to generate a random string that conforms to the following criterea"

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:15 AM

#

I have, what might be, an interview about a advertisement firm part time job coming up. May or may not be python relevant given the person who responded to my application only said he would like a chat when he get's back from vacation

#

So just dying to know what it's about, and how i'd go about it.

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

I had to write something that would generate a string that had alternating vowels and consonants, always ended in a random number, and where the user would specify length as an argument

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

nobody cared about my avatar in any job I applied for

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

same

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

your avatar is you

#

lol

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

haha

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:16 AM

#

hasn't always been

#

I seriously doubt it would be a problem for most employers, anyway

#

but you never know

vapid jay Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

did you have to write it on paper or you had a pc

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

some think it's super important you keep it professional.

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

I mean most of middle management understands we're weird nerds

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

they gave me a mac

#

which.. freaked me the fuck out

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

eugh

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

I have no idea how to use a mac

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

me neither

#

I plan on learning though

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

steak volcyy

#

steal*

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

also the mac had japanese as the system language

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

oof, please don't give me any other os than windows. 😅 I'll deffo get stuck

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

because the lead dev was a huge weeaboo :D

vapid jay Jul 23, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

and you are like, thanks god I brought stuff to install ARCH

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

haha

#

I only had ten minutes to solve it

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

oh if you're working with code professionally

#

you won't be using windows at all unless you're working with .NET or C# probably

#

or like ASP

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

not necessarily true

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

well yeah, it depends on the company

#

but linux and mac are way more common

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

they're more common for companies that know what they're doing

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

I have told myself countless times to explore the other os.. But other stuff

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

most companies do not

#

the devs themselves would have liked linux but the upper management may be buying them equipment that comes with windows

#

I see a lot of people running VMs

#

in windows

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

Huh, interesting

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

I just set up a dual boot myself

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

We used linux at fexco

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

I mean we absolutely do need linux but they still give us windows machines

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

I don't think there was a single windows machine in the office

#

A few people had macbooks though

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

I'd like a part time in industry work and then use the rest of the time to be a substitute teacher, but I'm afraid I'm too young for both.

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

Getting your foot in the door requires experience

#

Not age necessarily

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

to finish my little story about the interview process - after this over-the-shoulder tech test, I was given homework.

#

I had one week to build a system in python using flask.

#

a url shortener

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:21 AM

#

Couple hours of work at the very least

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:21 AM

#

this was for a python webdev full stack position so they wanted me to demonstrate js, css, and html / jinja 2

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:21 AM

#

So there are often multiple steps to getting accepted then?

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

Yeah, as the industry has grown, the entry requirements have gone up

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

It seems that age is mostly required, as it implies experience. I can't get official experience, since I'm too young to do uni to get a PhD, which is what nearly all jobs here want.

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

That's understandable though

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

aside from the actual interview

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

yes. it's quite common to have multiple interviews and at least one test

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

The possibility of an interview exam is daunting for me because like

#

I can write all kinds of shit in python

#

Bubble sort? fuck no

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

if you're interested, here's the URL shortener I wrote

#

https://github.com/beardfist/URL-shortener

GitHub

beardfist/URL-shortener

URL-shortener - A URL shortener written in Flask with URL validation and reverse lookups. (2017)

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

I have no idea what that even is lol

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

I did get the job

sturdy coyote Jul 23, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

Do people give freelance jobs to total python noobs and throw 2 dollars when they are satisfied?

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 10:23 AM

#

freelance is super hard

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:23 AM

#

I did some freelance work and it never pays anywhere near what it should.

#

you have to keep fighting for every penny unless you have a regular thing with a company or two

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:23 AM

#

Did that link shortener happen to be tested with google.com first?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

and it's so hard to find those kinds of arrangements

#

yes, the link shortners first short was probably google.com

#

why? because you got /a ?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

yeah 😅

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

that was one of the requirements for it

#

it should always produce the shortest string possible - starting at a and moving to aa after going through all upper lower and numbers

#

and it should never create duplicates

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

I read the readme about it incrementing it's string from a-Z-9

#

so figured it would be the first attempt

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

yeah

#

the code for that "shortest string" is really ugly

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

anywho, may i ask where you're from lemon?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

norway

wide harbor Jul 23, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

Where does it store the shortened URLs so it can prevent duplicates?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

I assumed from a few hints on the code jam stream.

#

May i ask what you think a part time job for https://markant.no/ would include?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

if I'm not mistaken, I set up postgres for it

#

I think that was also part of the task

sturdy coyote Jul 23, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

What do Norwegians eat? Seems to help with learning python 😄

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

Cheese, cut by a cheese-slicer

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:27 AM

#

oh, I've heard of these guys

#

I wonder if they headhunted me once.. hmm.

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:27 AM

#

I did apply there, from seeing they're recruiting

#

I just fear it's some sales job

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

what's the actual position called?

#

I know they do real tech there

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

I left an open resume

#

So no real position appliance

#

The only response i got was Men du har en interressant bakgrunn, og tar gjerne en prat med deg knyttet til en deltidsstilling.

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:29 AM

#

aha

#

https://markant.no/karriere/utvikler-php/

Markant

Utvikler PHP — Markant

#

they do have some actual programming positions open

#

https://markant.no/karriere/utvikler-net/

Markant

Utvikler .NET — Markant

#

this is gonna be wordpress

#

because their own website is wordpress

#

and they need PHP dudes

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:31 AM

#

oof Time to dig into php/.net ?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:31 AM

#

also .NET and Azure so probably some desktop stuff

#

the offices look really nice

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:32 AM

#

Given it's part time (I'm still studying) I can't really figure out where it puts me

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:32 AM

#

pictures here

#

https://www.finn.no/job/employer/company/524

FINN.no Bedriftsprofiler

Et blikk på innsiden av Markant

Markant kan by på en spennende hverdag i et engasjert og trivelig arbeidsmiljø der du vil jobbe med folk som brenner for å lage gode løsninger som gjør Internett til et bedre sted å være.

#

yeah tbh it might very well be marketing and sales

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:33 AM

#

I'll stick to my current part time if that's the case. I really cba doing door-door / phone sales etc

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:33 AM

#

this strikes me as one of those wordpress template and windows forms app builder type companies where they just throw components and plugins at problems and make stuff that looks pretty but is kinda shit beneath the surface - but that's just speculation from my end

#

probably huge marketing department, and a handful of talented technical people who aren't allowed to write things from scratch cause it would take too long.

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:34 AM

#

Hm

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:34 AM

#

probably pays well

#

what's your current part time job?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:34 AM

#

do you think there is anything I should get into before he gets back?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:35 AM

#

maybe wordpress

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:35 AM

#

Local Europris where I've been hired since 2011

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:35 AM

#

wordpress is really quite straight forward.

#

if you have a VPS, maybe set up a site

#

just to see how it works

#

did you know that over 20% of the internet is wordpress?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:36 AM

#

I don't, but we do have a domain hosted by one.com (which can only be edited through their editor from what i figured)

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:36 AM

#

learning .NET isn't done overnight, but brushing up on some PHP basics and playing with a wordpress instance might be worth doing just so you can say "yeah yeah I'm familiar with it"

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:36 AM

#

I'm considering a vps tho

#

Will do 👌🏾

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:37 AM

#

you can get a usable vps from scaleway for 20 kroner i måneden

#

please consider it. it's an invaluable learning tool

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:37 AM

#

I will!

#

Thanks 😄

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:38 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

I mean it doesn't even have shitty specs

#

also, uh, in your particular case

#

mention this community.

#

you're a volunteer at a python community that focuses on teaching new programmers how to code.

#

you can use me as a reference if that helps.

#

just DM me and I'll give you my number.

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

ooh can i use that too?

vivid dock Jul 23, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

♥ Much appreciated

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

sure, any of you helpers can do that if you want.

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

yay

#

perhaps put that in #staff-info?

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:40 AM

#

my phone number? hmm

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:40 AM

#

no no

#

just that youll be a reference

rare sand Jul 23, 2018, 10:43 AM

#

yep, added

wanton holly Jul 23, 2018, 10:43 AM

#

okay, neat ^-^

left patrol Jul 23, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

is anyone of you a bioinformatician?

#

by coincidence

earnest knot Jul 23, 2018, 1:50 PM

#

I'm not, but don't forget to ask in #data-science-and-ml

runic pulsar Jul 23, 2018, 2:54 PM

#

I recently found this list:

The 10 Highest-Paying Tech Jobs Right Now:
Software Architect - $116,267*
Data Scientist - $109,399
Devops Engineer - $106,045
Software Engineer - $98,304
Java Developer - $98,304
Mobile Developer - $96,133
Frontend Developer - $92,133
Software Developer - $87,185
Database Admin - $87,025
.Net Developer - $83,936```

I don't understand what is the difference between Software Developer, Software Engineer and Software Architect.

#

I think "software architect is the one who only works in the architecture phase which is after the design step, is the highest technical job one can aim for". Probably "it is a master-apprentice type of job". Still don't know any difference between soft dev and soft engineer

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/a/39286

Software Engineering Stack Exchange

Whats the difference between a Software Architect, a Software Engi...

I'm reading through the CNN article about the highest paying jobs in America. A software architect is listed as #1. A software engineer listed as #9. And a software developer (programmer) is listed...

#

Software Engineer is the one who knows all the aspects to the software development process (requirements, specification, design, architecture, design, implementation,etc) so they can achieve management jobs, or work anywhere in the process, improve it,etc.

Software Architect is the one who only works in the Architecture phase which is after the design step, is the highest technical job one can aim for. You still need to program, as opposed to Software Engineer who can become management. It's also a master-apprentice type of job.

Also don't compare with Computer Science, a Computer Scientist can program but also can do a lot of other things, so they are not limited to the field of programming.

runic pulsar Jul 23, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

yeah

#

There still doesn't say what is the difference between dev and enginner

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

Developers just write code, I think

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

The developer writes code that does what he gets told to do.

#

The engineer is also capable of planning and designing the software they're writing.

#

At least that's my understanding

runic pulsar Jul 23, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

Oh... so the engineer works on design too.

#

Yeah that makes sense, thx.

ocean barn Jul 23, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

that's all very american, don't let titles prevent you from doing what you want to do

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 3:14 PM

#

I had to read that twice, because the first time I thought you wrote "titties" there... 🤦 needs a bigger screen

runic pulsar Jul 23, 2018, 3:15 PM

#

I read 'titties' too

#

needs a website blocker

ocean barn Jul 23, 2018, 3:15 PM

#

ctrl + + to zoom in discord

runic pulsar Jul 23, 2018, 3:16 PM

#

Or from settings '-'

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 3:16 PM

#

Right.

#

But then it gets huge when I move it to the external screen...

#

sigh

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 3:16 PM

#

this is getting off-topic :P

zealous siren Jul 23, 2018, 3:31 PM

#

from the list above ^, wouldnt software developer be an umbrella term for all of these?

Mobile Developer - $96,133
Frontend Developer - $92,133
.Net Developer - $83,936```

karmic bramble Jul 23, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

I'd think so

zealous siren Jul 23, 2018, 4:07 PM

#

Weird how it has both

hardy rivet Jul 23, 2018, 5:40 PM

#

Well, some specific development platforms are more or less in demand. Makes sense to call them out specifically.

zealous siren Jul 23, 2018, 5:53 PM

#

But it doesn't make sense to also include the umbrella term

tidal socket Jul 23, 2018, 9:29 PM

#

I’m confused, did careers get moved?

#

Don’t remember it being up here

indigo sleet Jul 23, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

It's a new channel and was always where it is

tidal socket Jul 23, 2018, 9:39 PM

#

oh

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 3:23 AM

#

How often is python used in pentesting/cybersec/'hacking' tools

#

I know Kali pre-installs Python

#

but I am trying to think of its uses

#

aside a nmap script

umbral valley Jul 24, 2018, 5:10 AM

#

not my area of expertise per se, but it does seem like it gets used to code up things to test quickly

upper sluice Jul 24, 2018, 7:46 AM

#

Is there a Discord comunity about Django

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 7:58 AM

#

There is, yeah. It should be quite Googleable.

frank abyss Jul 24, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

@vapid jay , I have friends in the field or interning in the field (FBI) and they all use python for various things.

It's easier to develop your own tools in less time than other languages

#

I'm way behind them in infosec, but I can already see why.

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

@frank abyss I am making a cryptograph rn :)

#

thats why I asked

#

using premade modules and shit

#

python is 'easier' than java

#

I plan to learn python, java and C++

#

tbh python feels 'faster' than Java

frank abyss Jul 24, 2018, 5:52 PM

#

Faster to learn and write, yes.

#

100%

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:15 PM

#

faster in performance? probably not

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:24 PM

#

Just throwing Rust out there because it's like C++, Python and Java had a baby

#

@vapid jay I would argue Java is 'easier' than Python, but that's subjective I guess.

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 9:26 PM

#

Java is harder than python

#

thast what I wrote

#

python is 'easier' than java

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:27 PM

#

From my experience, Java is easier

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:27 PM

#

It's a really odd comparison to make

#

They are functionally very similar languages, though

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:28 PM

#

Yeah, I just recently worked on a Java codebase. I have very little Java experience, basically just what's been carried over from C++. The language is structured in a way that made it very easy to catch mistakes that you could make.

umbral valley Jul 24, 2018, 9:29 PM

#

What type of projects should a graduating student have on his GitHub

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:29 PM

#

i feel like java is trickier because it enforces OOP concepts right from the start, which is really confusing for beginners

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

I can see that

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

@umbral valley depends on their subject IMO

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

IMO Python can get really messy really fast if you're not careful

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

I am studying Mathematics and I am a 2nd grader

#

well will be 2nd

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

so can any other programming language

vapid jay Jul 24, 2018, 9:30 PM

#

I am gonna focus on Ethical Hacking ,Cybersec & Cryptology

#

so I will fill my shit with crpytograph etc

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:31 PM

#

Yes but static typing at least enforces a degree of structure

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:31 PM

#

thats what i was going to say, yeah

#

java is good if you already know your shit, basically

#

python is a good starting language

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

Python is harder to scale

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

No it's not

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

^

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

I think that's what I'm trying to say

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

That's a super old myth

umbral valley Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

They both have their advantages. It’s important to know OOP and being thrown into it is a little rough but it’s not that bad. It takes a couple projects to get used to it but the structure is really beneficial.

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:32 PM

#

Harder than Java

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

Arguably considerably easier than java

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

It's not hard

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

definitely beneficial, but the initial struggle may cause many to give up before the first hurdle.

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

Java's memory requirements make it difficult to deploy in low-power environments

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

this

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

This is all subjective btw

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

Python isn't much better in its default mode, however..

#

Run it in optimized mode

#

and you're flyin'

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

there's an optimized mode? :o

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

Yep

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:33 PM

#

TIL

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

-O skips asserts for speed, they get compiled out of the bytecode

#

-OO also doesn't load in the docstrings

#

which significantly decreases memory usage

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

interesting

umbral valley Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

I just code in -OO by default

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

Wait for PyPy.js to mature and you'll be flyin too

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

most of the time that's what you want to be using in prod, yeah

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

does it affect performance at all? i'd imagine its a negligible amount

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:34 PM

#

PyPy would be neat if a bunch of things weren't broken on it

hollow mantle Jul 24, 2018, 9:35 PM

#

Yeah, give it like 5 years

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:35 PM

#

Nah, it's not that easily-solvable

#

even the way they do garbage collection can break things if you're not careful

wanton holly Jul 24, 2018, 9:35 PM

#

(why doesn't snekbox use -OO then? 👀)

indigo sleet Jul 24, 2018, 9:35 PM

#

that's why most ORMs do really weird things on it

#

anyway, I think this conversation should move to #python-discussion probably

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:00 PM

#

Looking for some advice. I'm considering making software engineering a second career for me, and have been reading a lot about people who have done it.

#

A lot of what I have read says to get active on social media to get the first job and get your name known. The problem is that I tend to shy away from social media, mostly because I prefer to keep as low a profile as possible because of my current job.

#

Is it still feasible to find work without a heavy social media presence?

#

Or at least a "sanitized" one that does not reveal my real name?

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:03 PM

#

linkedin and github have been good for me

#

but I don't use any other social media

#

like.. I have a facebook account but I haven't used it for a year. I don't have any instagrams or twitters or snapchats or whatever it is people use. but I've never really encountered that any potential employers have shown much interest in my social media presence.

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:04 PM

#

@rare sand , That's good to hear.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:05 PM

#

I don't think my employer gives a shit about my linkedin either, but I get headhunted via linkedin a lot, so it's a valuable place to be for me.

#

but all of them have asked for github

#

I don't think they care if you put your real name there, though

vivid dock Jul 25, 2018, 1:05 PM

#

How do people use linkedin for such things. Just build bigger networks?

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:06 PM

#

once you have the right title, they find you.

vivid dock Jul 25, 2018, 1:06 PM

#

Fair enough

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:06 PM

#

@rare sand, Thanks. Do people care if its Github vs. Gitlab? I have a few projects that I want to put in version control, but are pretty specific to my current employment. (Mostly scraping internal websites.)

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:06 PM

#

I don't think it matters, no

#

but you can pretty easily set up one to mirror the other

#

and that might be a good idea.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

this widget thingy has been valuable for me

#

on my github profile page

#

I get comments on that

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:08 PM

#

That is quite impressive.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:09 PM

#

see the huge uptick since february? that's when we started @inner wren and www.pythondiscord.com :P

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:09 PM

#

Very active. That's one thing I have read is pretty important, since you really cannot fake a Github history.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:09 PM

#

yeah. I mean you can click around there and see the code for any of those commits. and a lot of them are big fat commits

#

anyway I think if you can show that you're active in open source that's probably a big plus.

#

and I do think that, especially in the US, there are probably companies that care about your "social media presence", too.

#

who would only hire rockstar devs

#

but I've never encountered one here in europe

#

most of the devs I work with are very private

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:12 PM

#

Yeah, my current plan is to leverage the current career to try to get into development. 13 years of being a trial lawyer should get someone interested.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:13 PM

#

lots of tech in law, surely.

#

sounds like a good plan to me

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:14 PM

#

Thanks. The thing to watch out for is to make sure it is clear that I want to be a developer, and not a lawyer.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:15 PM

#

yes. but I'm sure if you did find a place that specifically wanted devs with law experience, then you'd be one of those unicorn candidates that they couldn't ignore.

#

I doubt it's a common combo

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:16 PM

#

@rare sand Thanks.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:17 PM

#

no problem. this is just my experience, though, your mileage may vary. and I've never worked in the states.

#

another tendency I've noticed is that smaller companies or startups tend to be more about finding a candidate with the right chemistry who has experience and a good track record (like a strong github), and maybe lobbing technical tests at them. larger ones may care more about paperwork like where you went to school or (maybe) what happens when you google your name.

#

so you may wanna prefer the former

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:21 PM

#

I've been thinking about both sides. I think I want to land somewhere in the middle, since I'm older and have a family, the startup life is a bit, well, less than stable for my situation.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:22 PM

#

yeah, I wouldn't work for a startup myself. but an SMB might suit you well.

#

that's what I'd look for

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:22 PM

#

That's my thought. Some mid-size consulting firm, probably in the financial sector, since that is what my nearest city is heavy with.

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:22 PM

#

Smaller businesses are typically just better environments

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:23 PM

#

yes.

#

I've worked for IBM, and I worked for mom and pop businesses with ten people and I've done the startup thing once

#

and "somewhere in the middle" is aaaalways better.

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:23 PM

#

I have a very, very, flexible schedule here. I can come in at 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11. Leave whenever I feel like it

#

As long as when I'm here I'm working

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

I only have to go in two days a week

#

but I can come in more if I want to

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

I worked from home Monday

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

work nights, weekends, doesn't matter

#

just get the tasks done

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

That's what I would like, the option to come in or work from home.

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

Only 2 of us in software here even come in

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

I like the idea of being in an office to get motivated, but I hate that it is a chore.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:24 PM

#

yeah

#

my home office is way better than what I got downtown

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:25 PM

#

The other 6-8 work from other places, come in for meetings

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:25 PM

#

and my commute is like 2 hours per day, which I could've spent coding

#

so after a year they were like "you know what, just make sure you're there on thursdays."

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:25 PM

#

Ouch, I considered taking a job with that type of a commute, but it didn't pan out (fortunately).

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:26 PM

#

it's not too bad. audiobooks on the train. :)

#

it's certainly not bad when it's 2 days a week, though

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:26 PM

#

Yeah, I'm in the Southern US, so there is no mass transit. It's all driving here.

rare sand Jul 25, 2018, 1:27 PM

#

ugh

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:27 PM

#

We're lucky up here in NE US

#

Relatively

#

For mass transit

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 1:27 PM

#

@frank abyss , Yeah, I'd qualify that statement.

#

Mass transit is more accessible, but I like only having one or two snowstorms a year.

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

I want to move south, ironically

#

for that reason.

#

At my age, I am fucking DONE with blizzards every week

umbral valley Jul 25, 2018, 4:19 PM

#

Alabama 👌. No blizzards👌 good job ops 👌

frank abyss Jul 25, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

But then...Alabama

vapid jay Jul 25, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

yo boys

#

i made my first

#

app

#

!

#

it is a drawing app

#

written in python with help of kivy package

#

can i send it anywhere here ?

#

https://gyazo.com/c450e1b4aead152370de0188c56f3d31

Gyazo

▶ Play video

#

thats a gif of it!

#

im so proud 😂

indigo sleet Jul 25, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

We have #303934982764625920 for this purpose

solar flume Jul 25, 2018, 7:53 PM

#

@umbral valley , Lots of recursion in Alabama, though...

deep portal Jul 25, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

off_topeek psssttt over here @vapid jay shorten that search bar m8

main thicket Jul 26, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

yeet, officially employed writing python now

#

i was tempted with a higher salary than i got but whatevs, still alright

cunning notch Jul 26, 2018, 10:27 AM

#

ooh, nice

main thicket Jul 26, 2018, 10:29 AM

#

tfw I get 66% of what I was tempted with

#

but thats okay, the position is alright and I'll probably jump ship anyway lmao

rare sand Jul 26, 2018, 10:46 AM

#

nice work rags

main thicket Jul 26, 2018, 11:01 AM

#

Python

vapid jay Jul 26, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

😄

vapid jay Jul 26, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

i need a remote python job

#

or actually, "want" one

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:31 PM

#

Join the club :P

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:31 PM

#

Freelance

#

You gotta deal with stupid people but you get to do it from the comfort of your home

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:31 PM

#

There's a lot more to it than that

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:33 PM

#

I've only been doing it for a couple months

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Was actually just hired onto a team for backend dev, but that's in C# & Java

#

Most of my freelance stuff is in Python because it's got a fast turnover rate.

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:37 PM

#

That looks like one of those freelance sites

#

For your sake, I hope its not upwork

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:37 PM

#

Yeah, UpWork

#

heh

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:38 PM

#

Yeah you need to cut away as soon as you can

#

You'll end up banned and they won't give you your earnings

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:38 PM

#

How so?

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:38 PM

#

That's the current thing they do

#

You complete a thing, asshole who commissioned you does whatever they can to avoid paying you

#

Upwork automatically bans and won't take your side of the story

#

It's a story as old as.. Well, upwork

#

It's very well known, I'm surprised you haven't heard of it

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:40 PM

#

I'm planning on moving over to my own infrastructure soon anyway.

wanton holly Jul 26, 2018, 7:41 PM

#

to be fair, i do want to get a job with python development but i have no idea really where to go with it

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:41 PM

#

I did ONE stock algorithm and now everybody and their mom is contacting me about it

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:42 PM

#

Proceed with caution.

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:42 PM

#

I don't think I'm going to accept any more jobs on the site, I just need a good billing medium.

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 7:42 PM

#

Sec

#

I know Envoice is popular for invoicing

#

Not sure if they do payments, but..

#

It's free, so hey

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 7:44 PM

#

Hmm

#

I need something to track hours but that's easy enough to make

#

The last thing being some sort of contract so I'm protected in some way.

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 8:07 PM

#

Rescuetime maybe

main thicket Jul 26, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

Use LinkedIn people

#

Very useful

#

I feel like it's pretty rare for freelancing to work out unless you already have a few years of good professional experience

indigo sleet Jul 26, 2018, 9:10 PM

#

Rags gets it

wanton holly Jul 26, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

dunno if that'd be much use to me right now haha

hollow mantle Jul 26, 2018, 9:40 PM

#

Well it worked out for me. No education or experience. Landed a few script jobs, projects slowly got bigger.

#

Got hired onto a start-up for 15/hr

#

Now just need to build experience and work on a portfolio

#

It did take me like 2 months to land that first hire though

wanton holly Jul 26, 2018, 9:48 PM

#

only 2 months?

#

good job :D

main thicket Jul 26, 2018, 9:48 PM

#

Oh btw, I recommend going to Hackathons

#

That's how I got my current job

#

Company talked to us after our pitch just before we won second

tawny quartz Jul 27, 2018, 12:49 AM

#

Hackathons are great

muted sundial Jul 27, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

i need remote work: python, devops,c/c++, docker

wanton holly Jul 27, 2018, 6:14 AM

#

do people even read channel topics? :P

📎 unknown.png

cunning notch Jul 27, 2018, 6:15 AM

#

perhaps he is soliciting for suggestions and tips? better ways to phrase the request if so

solemn valley Jul 27, 2018, 6:16 AM

#

@wanton holly no people don't read channel topics it's clearly a waste of time and never helped me outside conversations with people who didn't read channel topics

wanton holly Jul 27, 2018, 6:16 AM

#

lmao

wheat kernel Jul 27, 2018, 5:11 PM

#

Hi guys. I am new here

#

I know python and java. I am doing competitive programming since last 5-6 months in java so i mostly know core java

For job and development purpose i am confused in between java and python. How is django framework? Should i learn it over advanced java?

ocean barn Jul 27, 2018, 5:14 PM

#

do you want to work at a company that's hip and cool, python, if you want to make a lot of money but be a slave to a corporate empire, java. ... I'm mostly joking :D

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:15 PM

#

Which language you prefer to work with probably plays a big role as well

ocean barn Jul 27, 2018, 5:15 PM

#

I agree with that

#

and also what kind of work you want to do, for instance the devops world embraces python and golang. Java is favoured in heavy weight industries like finance and healthcare.

rare sand Jul 27, 2018, 5:20 PM

#

java jobs are everywhere but a lot of them probably aren't that fun.

#

python jobs are rare as fuck.

#

don't put all your eggs in either basket, maybe.

mild zenith Jul 27, 2018, 5:22 PM

#

I would think that most employers would be happier that you have a variety of skills and tools rather than one specialty. Most of the time, you're going to be trained on what you specifically are going to be doing anyway, so it's better to have a broader knowledge base

#

At least from what I've been told

rare sand Jul 27, 2018, 5:23 PM

#

yeah. like the Pragmatic Programmer says, if you wanna stay relevant you should learn at least one new language (or new technology) every year.

#

most employers will prefer a wide range of tech to specialization every time.

frank abyss Jul 27, 2018, 5:24 PM

#

Even though I'm being paid as a programmer

#

I don't want to be one in the end I don't think lol

#

It's just a step in my path

#

Can't be worth a shit in security if you can't program.

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:24 PM

#

The recommendation I got was find something you enjoy, then zone in on something useful within that and truly master it

ocean barn Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM

#

this is all solid advice I wish I'd had in school

frank abyss Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM

#

To me, in my 30s now, quality of life is more important to me than money

#

So I want to do work I enjoy, rather than do something shitty for more money

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:27 PM

#

After 7 years in a store, I just want something that's at least relevant to programming

#

If the job I get offered in ~a week is about sorting files in a big directory. so be it I'd take it

wheat kernel Jul 27, 2018, 5:29 PM

#

I have been coding in java since last 6 months.

#

Python also seems fun

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:29 PM

#

Have you used python for a bit?

wheat kernel Jul 27, 2018, 5:30 PM

#

Yeah

#

Since last week i started learning it

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:30 PM

#

Maybe give it a month or 2 of different types of projects

#

See which you like the best

wheat kernel Jul 27, 2018, 5:30 PM

#

I have no experience with development

#

Only competitive programming

#

I don't prefer data science or ML

#

A backend engineer job is my aim

vivid dock Jul 27, 2018, 5:31 PM

#

Maybe java is more suitable for that?

wheat kernel Jul 27, 2018, 5:31 PM

#

Yeah

#

But i heard about django also

#

My current company has an online python course

#

Before joining i have to finish that

#

But before job they train in java

#

Django+ node js is famous in startups?

frank abyss Jul 27, 2018, 5:35 PM

#

Node is popular from what I see when perusing jobs

neat dagger Jul 27, 2018, 10:09 PM

#

I started 3 months ago my first job as a tester. In a bank's BSC, and even though I knew how it would look like I wonder whether should I continue cuz money and gaining more experience on paper (which is safe but also painful) or leave very soon. The only thing I can learn is SQL and software dev. process which is probably not so well guided. My job title should be called Validation Connoisseur instead of Test Engineer as all of it is monkey work of checking if a field been populated - at least it's not that easy due to the complexity of the system so my brain is somehow benefiting.

umbral valley Jul 27, 2018, 10:11 PM

#

I’ve always heard to stay for a year before hopping jobs

neat dagger Jul 27, 2018, 10:17 PM

#

I believe it's nonsense statement. Mainly because when starting the career - after a year in a 'bad' place my knowledge will be very low in contrast to working in 'great' place (great senor dev you can learn from + project that allows you to develop).

#

I'm scared that after some time I will know nothing comparish to person who started same time as I did but had way better environment :/

hollow mantle Jul 27, 2018, 10:57 PM

#

I'm just trynna link some nodes together and smash it with lots of data till it does what I want

#

Maybe fondle some quibits in the process

muted sundial Jul 28, 2018, 3:41 AM

#

i thought nodejs is going down now, after Ryan's youtube confession 2 months ago?

tawny quartz Jul 28, 2018, 6:11 AM

#

@neat dagger experience with validation and testing methods, and knowledge is sql, will likely get you a job if you move elsewhere

wheat kernel Jul 28, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

Nodejs is going down really?

zealous siren Jul 28, 2018, 1:21 PM

#

no

indigo sleet Jul 28, 2018, 1:26 PM

#

well, it's declining a bit, yeah

#

Python is quickly becoming the most popular language out there

native monolith Jul 28, 2018, 1:51 PM

#

That economist article is a meme

indigo sleet Jul 28, 2018, 2:46 PM

#

Hey, go ahead, stick your head in the sand :P

#

Not my fault if you miss the bus

native monolith Jul 28, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

dude i love python

vapid jay Jul 28, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

does anyone here work from home

ocean barn Jul 28, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

I do occasionally

karmic bramble Jul 28, 2018, 4:14 PM

#

I could, but I usually prefer my work environment.

#

I find it hard to concentrate at home, with all kinds of things to get distracted. Also, better desk setup at work.

#

Also, it's good to have colleagues around to yell at.

vapid jay Jul 28, 2018, 4:17 PM

#

Hmmm

rare sand Jul 28, 2018, 5:08 PM

#

I work from home 3 days a week

tawny quartz Jul 28, 2018, 9:24 PM

#

@thin valley no recruitment here, sorry

thin valley Jul 28, 2018, 9:24 PM

#

Can you recommend somewhere for me to go?

gaunt tangle Jul 28, 2018, 9:37 PM

#

@vapid jay ik u helped me with a regular way but i really want to be a member of this server because it gives hope for people who want to learn

neat dagger Jul 29, 2018, 6:59 AM

#

@tawny quartz thanks yes u are right, it's XML files all the time

#

I work from home I'd say 20% of the month, could do more but I yet need lots of interaction - easier to ask.
Very convenient with virtual machines and also at home I have the wide-screen monitor. Why?

crimson oracle Jul 30, 2018, 5:41 AM

#

I was recruited to work on Python...6 months later, I’m resolving JIRA tickets about untouched PERL code for years. forsenKek

viscid vapor Jul 30, 2018, 6:05 AM

#

I didn't know that PERL was used professionally

tawny quartz Jul 30, 2018, 6:08 AM

#

It most definitely is

viscid vapor Jul 30, 2018, 6:09 AM

#

cool

crimson oracle Jul 30, 2018, 6:13 AM

#

It is...my company wanted to switch most of legacy to python. but since they changed their mind every monday, we just try to fix the problems before we lost too much clients

compact moat Jul 31, 2018, 2:23 AM

#

🤔 Anyone a cover letter pro?

tawny quartz Jul 31, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

If you have a question, you can just ask it

#

We don't do one on one tutoring or advising here

compact moat Jul 31, 2018, 5:12 AM

#

Thanks @tawny quartz , so would that disclude my request for cover letter review?

tawny quartz Jul 31, 2018, 5:14 AM

#

You could post a link to it in a off topic channel and ask for feedback

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 5:21 AM

#

tbh I think it's okay to post a cover letter in this channel with a request for feedback, as well

#

it's highly on-topic

compact moat Jul 31, 2018, 6:55 AM

#

thanks guys @tawny quartz @rare sand

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 6:56 AM

#

no probs

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 8:00 AM

#

If you guys had to list the top 5 most in demand languages/skills for jobs in the next 2-3 years what would they be?

#

and best potential fields to focus in on? Data Science for example?

#

obv python 😉

#

i am also learning SQL alongside python

compact moat Jul 31, 2018, 8:19 AM

#

language will vary on your niche @velvet canopy

#

getting behind R/Go/Python as they grow could pay off huge (pythons already big as you mentioned)

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 8:20 AM

#

Pretty hard to tell the top 5 languages in the next 2-3

#

you can perhaps check the tiobe index

#

and see the trajectory

#

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

TIOBE Index | TIOBE - The Software Quality Company

The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:49 AM

#

Switch it depends

#

CPP, Java, C# definitely aren't going anywhere

#

python and js too

vivid dock Jul 31, 2018, 8:50 AM

#

Java FeelsBadEyes

#

Tfw u spend 2 years studying it, and never use it

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 8:56 AM

#

yeah right now I’m thinking to focus on Python, R, and SQL and branching out from there

#

add in js, HTML, css for that full stack ability

#

Gonna get good at python before I jump into R more though

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:58 AM

#

R is fun

#

feels like matlab

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 8:59 AM

#

Mainly used in data science right now yeah?

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:59 AM

#

Yeah

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 8:59 AM

#

I’ve been thinking about becoming a data scientist

#

Seems like an interesting one

#

or going into that area

#

if I’m looking to get my first dev job

#

What would be the best to go for

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:01 AM

#

Whatever you get offered is generally the advice people give

#

gotta get that experience before you swap

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:01 AM

#

Yeah

#

Just build up a base of general skills then

#

To get that first job

#

But yeah I’ll def take the first offer

#

Well not first

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:03 AM

#

problem with alot of ML / Data Science

#

is they want MsC or Ph.D.s

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:03 AM

#

But any decent offer

#

yeah that’s what I heard

#

so I’m prob out for that

#

I’ll have a bachelor only

#

and don’t really want to do a masters or PhD I don’t think

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:05 AM

#

SQL is a programming language??

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:06 AM

#

I mean no

vivid dock Jul 31, 2018, 9:06 AM

#

Technically, I believe it is classified as one

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:06 AM

#

yeah

#

Query language?

#

I dunno haha

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:06 AM

#

Yep query language

vivid dock Jul 31, 2018, 9:06 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 AM

#

bam

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 AM

#

Just like HTML is not a programming language

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 AM

#

I mean don’t see why you couldn’t classify it as one

#

You’re programming it to perform a task no?

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 AM

#

Because you don't create a program using it

vivid dock Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 AM

#

" SQL is a set-based, declarative programming language, not an imperative programming language like C or BASIC."

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 AM

#

a program is just an instruction or set of instructions though

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:09 AM

#

SQL is used in other languages to access database

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:09 AM

#

But let the debate rage 😂

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:10 AM

#

SQL is not turing complete i guess

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:10 AM

#

turing complete ?

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:10 AM

#

Yep

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:10 AM

#

CSS is turing complete though

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:10 AM

#

Even powerpoint is turing complete

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:11 AM

#

brb learning PowerPoint

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:11 AM

#

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/900055/is-sql-or-even-tsql-turing-complete

Stack Overflow

Is SQL or even TSQL Turing Complete?

This came up at the office today. I have no plans of doing such a thing, but theoretically could you write a compiler in SQL? At first glance it appears to me to be turing complete, though extrem...

vivid dock Jul 31, 2018, 9:11 AM

#

Anywho, this discussion is probably more suited for an off topic channel.

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:11 AM

#

true

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:12 AM

#

PL/SQL and T-SQL certainly qualify as programming languages, whether SQL92 itself qualifies is open for debate. Some people claim that any piece of code that tells a computer what to do qualifies as a programming language; by that definition SQL92 is one, but so is e.g. HTML. The definition is rather vague, and it's imo a pointless thing to argue about.

velvet canopy Jul 31, 2018, 9:13 AM

#

I mean I would probably argue that any code that tells a computer to do something is a programming language

#

But what do I know

#

I’m a noob atm

#

I shall be in off topic channels

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:27 AM

#

HTML is by definition not a programming language @wheat kernel

#

Programming languages perform operations, or you might call that logic

#

but HTML is a markup language for laying out a webpage

#

You can't run it, it just instructs another program on where the page content is

viscid vapor Jul 31, 2018, 9:31 AM

#

HTML is definitely a programming language

#

You define a linear set of instructions on how to make webpage

#

Although this question is moreso focused on what you define as programming

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:35 AM

#

Don't we call programming languages those that are turing complete?

#

and html is not

viscid vapor Jul 31, 2018, 9:36 AM

#

If you want to go by turing completeness, then yeah I agree

wheat kernel Jul 31, 2018, 9:36 AM

#

HTML+CSS is

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:45 AM

#

That's just CSS really

#

HTML is not at all

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:55 AM

#

if you're gonna start calling HTML a programming language, then the term becomes too general - and thus useless

#

you might as well call my dog's treats a programming language

#

because my dog will go where you put them

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:56 AM

#

I wanna code in Gdudes dogs treats. Is that a jvm language?

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

@umbral valley No, it's a dog language

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 11:42 AM

#

an interpreted language, because you have to interpret the barking

left escarp Jul 31, 2018, 1:11 PM

#

What's this channel for

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 1:12 PM

#

Learning to read, mostly

#

📎 unknown.png

hollow mantle Jul 31, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

@indigo sleet HTML is my favorite programming language

craggy willow Jul 31, 2018, 4:52 PM

#

lmao

green sinew Jul 31, 2018, 5:21 PM

#

That's a valid question

#

That is very fague and multiple people have still talked about the wrong things in here

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 5:24 PM

#

yeah including the three of you.

#

@left escarp it's for discussing a career in programming. you can ask questions about stuff like how to write a good resume, what to expect at an interview, what to expect if you get the job..

#

and those of us on the server who have professional experience will try to answer to the best of our ability.

grizzled pulsar Jul 31, 2018, 5:30 PM

#

if you wanted to become a teacher would learning python fully be essential?

sly notch Jul 31, 2018, 5:32 PM

#

itd help but imo learning how to teach better is more important

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 5:32 PM

#

I've had a teacher in SQL who basically had to learn himself before teaching us (this was years ago however) so while we did learn, it wasn't great. so no, but yes :D

#

I think a good teacher knows many use cases and having real world experience is a great benefit to that end. A teacher should be able to adapt, things change - and with that in mind, you don't have to know everything, because it's likely to change any way!

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

how did you get your first job

#

i'm having so much trouble getting my foot in the door

#

i've got a bunch of meh projects on gitlab, i have a solid education and i'm mostly good with soft skills

#

but i didnt really send my application to 300 companies

#

i've worked on git and personal projects for a while now, i'm comfortable with linux

#

if any of you were ever recruitors, what is something when reviewing a JUNIOR(or maybe even below) developer would really impress you

#

if you respond please @ me i'm leaving for the gym soon

hollow mantle Jul 31, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

Honestly it just takes persistence. Typically there's a couple routes, either apply for internships, or try your hand at freelancing for a bit. You also might be able to find a startup willing to hire on beginners for cheap, it's just matter of finding it. @surreal ivy

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

@hollow mantle i'm not comp-sci so we never had internship and since I'm doing bachelors I feel like I can't afford to go on a free internship because i might literally starve(i'm almost 23)

#

but thank you for the answer i'm glad it's not just you either make it fast or you dont

hollow mantle Jul 31, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

I don't have any formal education in CS, dropped out of college 2nd year, was majoring in Chemistry. I spent a few months just applying, eventually landed a few small projects freelancing. It grew from there until I found a small start-up team that was willing to hire me on.

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:13 PM

#

@indigo sleet re: further up I do a lot of work with json data in starbound and it kinda irks me when people call it programming

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 8:13 PM

#

It isn't programming

#

:>

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:14 PM

#

Making a json isn't really programming because you're not placing in any logic, you're telling the actual programming what you want it to do

#

Like html

molten spoke Jul 31, 2018, 8:14 PM

#

juan is writing a programming language in json iirc

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 8:16 PM

#

me and @solemn valley were, but we haven't really done much with it

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:16 PM

#

yea

#

and tbh

#

if i write C code i just tell the compiler what to do lol @kind jetty

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:17 PM

#

@solemn valley not really what I meant u donk!!

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:18 PM

#

i know

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:18 PM

#

"You can't run it, it just instructs another program on where the page content is"

#

sorta like that

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:18 PM

#

im just being annoying again

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:18 PM

#

u big doo doo head

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:18 PM

#

😦

#

😭 🚶

kind jetty Jul 31, 2018, 8:19 PM

#

coolsob

cunning notch Jul 31, 2018, 8:21 PM

#

didn't realize this was #career-advice. shoo shoo you sillies this isn't off-topic

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 8:22 PM

#

not even safe from bullying in on topic channels sigh

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 8:55 PM

#

has anyone here moved into the world of programming later in their career? e.g. 10+ years after their primary education or schooling?

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 8:56 PM

#

there was a lawyer guy in here a while ago

#

scroll up a bit

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 8:57 PM

#

he was hoping to, didn't do it yet

#

as far as I remember

#

I did, though

#

10ish years after dropping out of high school and after working in IT and tech support, I managed to land a programming job.

#

at around 28.

#

@amber quarry

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 8:59 PM

#

i'm 33 and am getting bored

#

i have a degree in chemical engineering and work in a corporate engineering group focusing on industrial process control

#

i write a lot of technical specifications but don't get to DO anything anymore

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 8:59 PM

#

right

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:00 PM

#

so i'm starting to see what it's like out there in the programming world

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:01 PM

#

I think it's definitely doable. it's one of the worlds that you can get into on merit, even if your background is a bit non-typical. study, volunteer, contribute to open source, carve yourself a wall of accomplishments that you can show off and then beg them to give you a technical test if you have to.

#

then nail that, and you'll probably have a good chance.

#

with the right employer.

#

that's what worked for me anyway

#

showing off my GitHub and my dozens of bullshit coursera and edx and udemy course certificates, telling them I spent all my free time in programming forums and chat rooms, showing them shitty little scripts I wrote while I was employed in IT, asking them to test me.

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:04 PM

#

haha...that's great feedback

#

i laugh because i have a ton of edX certs that no one cares about

#

i even got a data analytics one from Columbia (where my boss got his BS) and he doesn't care

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:05 PM

#

yeah, don't we all. I mean they're worthless in and of themselves -- but _to the right employer (or to a clueless one) -- they are proof of your passion.

#

one certificate is truly worthless.. but 14? you don't have 14 without having given a shit.

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:05 PM

#

mine are all over the place

#

most are programming related

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 PM

#

well, I like to think that employers who look for good coders like to look for evidence of passion. a single passionate programmer is worth 5 bachelor degree assholes who are just there to collect a paycheck.

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 PM

#

i feel like i'm becoming the latter, looking for the former

#

but to be fair, the paycheck is nice...

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 PM

#

haha, I bet

#

it sounds nice

#

have you done any open source contribution?

#

that's probably the realest way you can prop yourself up as a potential candidate

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:07 PM

#

so i literally took the GitHub training lab this morning

#

i've had an account for years

#

but i've never had the balls to screw up someone else's code

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

I more or less got hired due to my contributions to the saltstack project on github :D

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

i have modified some repos locally to do some RPI things with my daughter

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

Contributing to Python Discord counts?

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

sure

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

lemonshake

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

contributing to anything open source

#

will look great

#

python discord is one of my greatest sales arguments in interviews now

#

"I'm one of the owners of the largest Python community on Discord. I've written thousands of lines of open source code for the community web services (which you can see on my gitlab account), I help design and host quarterly code jams that are officially sponsored by JetBrains, and spend the rest of my time trying to teach beginners how to fall in love with programming"

#

"when can you start?"

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:12 PM

#

"I also use arch btw"

karmic bramble Jul 31, 2018, 9:12 PM

#

"right after telling that dude in #help-42 not to parse html with regex"

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:13 PM

#

recruiter:

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:13 PM

#

but I think being staff on this server (even just a Helper) or contributing to our open source stuff is probably gonna play well in anyones interview. it's basically volunteer work in an educational programming setting

vapid jay Jul 31, 2018, 9:13 PM

#

📎 4fd.jpg

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:13 PM

#

I mean, it's not a hard sell.

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

Yeah I should definitely add that to my CV as well, lol

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

i should start writing a CV

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

this is way more impressive than the Minecraft community

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

also, recruiters look for you on linkedin, if you haven't made a profile do it, and link it back to your github and gitlab accounts, and explain the projects you've made!

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

I deleted my linkedin

#

:|

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

yes. LinkedIn has been very valuable for me.

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:14 PM

#

all I got was spam

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:15 PM

#

it's not spam

karmic bramble Jul 31, 2018, 9:15 PM

#

In my interview for the place where I'm working/studying now, I also mentioned my (minor, but didn't emphasize that) contributions to the Stack Exchange chat library ChatExchange and their community spam fighting bot SmokeDetector

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:16 PM

#

and did they like that?

karmic bramble Jul 31, 2018, 9:17 PM

#

seemed so

#

after all, I'm there for two years now 😛

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 9:17 PM

#

well done :D

karmic bramble Jul 31, 2018, 9:18 PM

#

but they'd probably also have taken me without that ¯_(ツ)_/¯

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:18 PM

#

i'd have no idea what to put on a CV, i haven't even tried yet

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:18 PM

#

@amber quarry anyway, if you got a bunch of edx stuff, then start building your github or gitlab profile with anything. even if you just make a project from scratch. just put some activity on it. you can contribute to our website or our bot if you want, although you'll probably want to be at least an intermediate python developer to tackle those.

karmic bramble Jul 31, 2018, 9:18 PM

#

just a bit of icing on the cake

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:18 PM

#

@rare sand thanks for the feedback and advice

#

i actually have a licensed copy of JetBrains

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

you mean PyCharm?

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

yeah

#

sorry

#

JB is the company

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

no he copied the company

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

git clone jetbrains

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

i thought it was open sourced?

#

i can't have it?

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

not everything jb makes is open source

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

community edition of pycharm is open source i think

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

The intellij platform is open-source

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

i have a licensed copy

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

The premium plugins aren't, I don't think

#

anyway, yeah, pycharm pro is awesome

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

overkill for what i need, but i like messing around in it

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

pycharm pro is my weapon of choice.

#

all the devs I work with, too

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

pycharm pro is nifty

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

basically the gold standard for python devs at this point

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

we all use PyCharm too

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

they sure earned it

ocean barn Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

charm like snake charmer, this just occured to me

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

haha

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 9:20 PM

#

Haha, you're getting it!

wanton holly Jul 31, 2018, 9:21 PM

#

oh my god yes

#

i didn't realise

#

:D

earnest knot Jul 31, 2018, 9:24 PM

#

:cripes:

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 10:17 PM

#

okay, so i've figured out joining bigger project would look great on a resume

#

how do i even begin to do that

#

i've cloned some stuff but it was so confusing what it even does and im not even some super noob

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 10:19 PM

#

you might wanna get in touch with their community. many will be happy to work with you if you wanna contribute.

#

not all. but the good ones, I'd argue.

#

gift horse in the mouth etc.

#

most of these projects will have a discord or a slack or (more likely) an IRC channel somewhere.

#

some will even have new contributor guides and guidelines in their wiki

#

so look for that.

#

find actual issues to solve instead of just cloning and going to town

#

big projects will have plenty of open issues, sometimes marked with something like "good beginner issue"

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 10:24 PM

#

If the project is on gitlab, your first MR to a project will be marked as such as well

#

"This is the user's first contribution"

zealous siren Jul 31, 2018, 10:25 PM

#

iirc that happens on github too

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 10:28 PM

#

your first MR

#

what's MR

zealous siren Jul 31, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

Pretty sure he meant PR

solemn valley Jul 31, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

merge request

#

PR on gitlab

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

merge request being me merging my code with the other guys

zealous siren Jul 31, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

yea

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

isnt that asking for trouble, since better programmers will be working on some issues aswell, causing merge conflicts?

zealous siren Jul 31, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

Thats why you get branches

#

You can get conflicts, but they can also be resolved

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 10:33 PM

#

There are tools for dealing with that

#

and it'll be your problem, so getting familiar with them is a good idea

rare sand Jul 31, 2018, 10:33 PM

#

merge request is a name that actually makes sense, and is what they call them on gitlab. pull request is exactly the same only it has a much worse name and is what they say on github.

#

and they are probably the single most important idea in git. you branch off and merge back in. traintracks, baby.

#

collaborative git relies heavily on them.

amber quarry Jul 31, 2018, 10:53 PM

#

can we take the last few comments lemon made and sticky them somewhere?

#

pull request is a horrible name for someone who isn't familiar with the idea of git

#

merge request is WAYYYY better

green sinew Jul 31, 2018, 10:54 PM

#

So a merge request

#

Means the master code doesn't change

#

But the new code is uploaded?

#

Cool

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 10:56 PM

#

Merge is taking a branch from somewhere and moving it to another branch right? So it can go in master if you want.

heavy fjord Jul 31, 2018, 11:17 PM

#

Um so
I don't know if it's appropriate to ask here
but I need to find a job
I need to gtfo of where I am
if anyone has any ideas for where I should be looking if I want to end up in/around san francisco
i'd really appreciate that
I'm 18, no degree, no formal work experience, but I know my head from my ass and I can prove it to anyone who wants to check me

#

Python is not my language of choice, I actually mostly write functional code clojure scala etc

#

but I'll take pretty much anything I can get

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 11:19 PM

#

A portfolio is one of the most useful things you can build

#

To be able to put your projects and contributions on your CV/resume

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

And also San Fran is probably the most expensive city in the US. Families who make $160K combined still need roommates. It’s not really ideal for a fresh out of college grad

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

Yeah, sanfran is well-known for being impossible to afford

heavy fjord Jul 31, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

I know it's expensive, I'll get 5 roomates if I have to

#

It's important to me that I end up somewhere around there

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:22 PM

#

It’s certainly possible, I just wanted to let you know ahead of time. But just gotta build that portfolio, and apply to literally everywhere

indigo sleet Jul 31, 2018, 11:23 PM

#

yeah

#

apply for non-programming jobs too in the meantime

#

to be realistic, it sounds like you have to take what you can get right now

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:24 PM

#

Take the first one you get offered. Build experience. Apply to other jobs while you’re working there, but getting any developer job first is like a huge priority

heavy fjord Jul 31, 2018, 11:29 PM

#

That's the idea

#

I'm just trying to figure out where to look

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:30 PM

#

indeed / SO are the big 2 I know of

#

possibly glassdoor as well

heavy fjord Jul 31, 2018, 11:31 PM

#

stack overflow?

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:31 PM

#

yeah they have a jobs board

heavy fjord Jul 31, 2018, 11:31 PM

#

oh

#

sweet

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 11:33 PM

#

they have a job board but for some reason they still only recommend me senior dev jobs even after i've specified

#

junior

#

lol

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:34 PM

#

I'm assuming the recommended jobs are promoting paid gigs

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 11:35 PM

#

🤔 probably

#

but those jobs are REALLY well paid

#

like its something you'd make as the CEO of the biggest national company here

#

but like i can only dream about those

umbral valley Jul 31, 2018, 11:36 PM

#

well theyre also probably in major cities

#

where its uh, a bit skewed

surreal ivy Jul 31, 2018, 11:38 PM

#

im in europe and yeah its huge companies in huge cities

#

some offer remote

tawny quartz Aug 1, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

Govt isn't always well paying but it's generally really really stable.

umbral valley Aug 1, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

^

sturdy kite Aug 1, 2018, 5:10 AM

#

Hmmm...

main thicket Aug 1, 2018, 5:32 AM

#

@amber quarry Hey, have you thought about moving to somewhere else in Engineering doing programming?

#

Given you have knowledge of industrial processes and hopefully that comes with some knowledge of control engineering and the like, you are a good candidate at a place which works on a product for an industrial environment. Think hardware/software startups for industry or an already industrial place making software for itself. Domain knowledge is a pretty valuable asset

#

Also look around at startups

#

They're very very happy to take on people from different backgrounds

#

Think about getting into data science and/or embedded systems. Both are used heavily in industry and for the former, domain knowledge is a huge plus!

amber quarry Aug 1, 2018, 10:20 AM

#

@main thicket before I moved into the corporate role, I worked for an engineering contractor writing control code

#

Although I use the phrase "writing control code" loosely

main thicket Aug 1, 2018, 10:21 AM

#

Voila look at that, could be doing that again unless you want to move

#

Lol export from MATLAB -> leet programmer

amber quarry Aug 1, 2018, 10:21 AM

#

I could be doing that again for a significant reduction in compensation

#

Haha

#

I am looking into data science....we have piles of historical process data with no idea how to leverage it

main thicket Aug 1, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

I'm sure you could move companies and write similar code in a more hardcore manner without losing too much in compensation

#

Oh yeah data science is pretty much a mine for engineers

#

In fact, I'm at a company that uses data science for mining companies so it quite literally a mine for mines

amber quarry Aug 1, 2018, 10:24 AM

#

Do you do business in soda ash? Our company has a mine in Wyoming (?)

#

I think

#

We also make a lot of mining chemicals...phosphorus derivatives

main thicket Aug 1, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

Nah, I'm in Australia. We don't limit ourselves to any specific part of mining. We do some consulting and we run case studies on specific mines and then create data-science and maths and statistics based algorithms and then license those algorithms out to companies

torn galleon Aug 2, 2018, 1:24 AM

#

guys can anyone suggest me an internship for the upcoming summer?

umbral valley Aug 2, 2018, 1:27 AM

#

thats gonna be a take what you can get situation

#

they should've just been published

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

@main thicket I'm in Australia too

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

👌

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

What is the best section in Aus to get into?

solemn valley Aug 2, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

Rabs and rags .... COINCIDENCE???

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:26 AM

#

No

#

Lol

#

@main thicket in IT

#

What's the best section in this country

#

Cyber Security?

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

I don't do IT

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

Aj

#

What then lel

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

My field is engineering

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

O

#

Does that pay good

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

Fairly good, yes

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:28 AM

#

Hm

#

Engineering what

#

Electronic

#

Uh

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:30 AM

#

I do Mechatronic. I am fairly aware of both electrical and software. A bit of mechanical too

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:30 AM

#

Civil, mechanical

#

Software engineering

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:30 AM

#

Don't do engineering for the pay, you won't survive and often won't get a job

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:30 AM

#

That's IT

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:30 AM

#

It has some overlap

#

Not exactly IT

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:31 AM

#

Yeah

#

When I see software engineer

#

It covers Engineering

#

And iT

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:32 AM

#

Software engineering roles tend to be plenty different from what an IT role would be. And software engineers have engineering qualifications which means they're qualified to do things IT isn't qualified to do

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:34 AM

#

What do you need for software engineering

#

What skills?

#

I’m in year 12 and I really don’t know what I’m gonna do

#

Apart from maybe cyber security

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:37 AM

#

? Software engineering skills? Being able to program scalable Software that's easy to maintain. Being good with problem solving. Being up to date with best practices and good technology

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:41 AM

#

Do you need mth skills

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 10:44 AM

#

Depends on what you're doing

north prairie Aug 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

Well what sort of Python skills do you need?

#

Do you get taught Python in a class room

surreal ivy Aug 2, 2018, 11:40 AM

#

anyone knows of an open source(on git) python project that focuses on a linux userbase

muted sundial Aug 2, 2018, 11:40 AM

#

For python, i would mentioned the packages numpy and scikit for all things math related

craggy willow Aug 2, 2018, 11:40 AM

#

also you can learn functional python

muted sundial Aug 2, 2018, 11:41 AM

#

@craggy willow what package is that?

craggy willow Aug 2, 2018, 11:41 AM

#

it isnt a package

#

lmao

#

its a way of programming

muted sundial Aug 2, 2018, 11:43 AM

#

@craggy willow i like python. But it's lambda support is crippled. Guido does not like FP obviously.

craggy willow Aug 2, 2018, 11:43 AM

#

😮

#

I wanna fall in love with JS

#

But it looks like it will take months

#

JS confuses me

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 11:52 AM

#

Wrong channel, folks. Move to one of the offtopic ones

silver tinsel Aug 2, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

@north prairie you need to look at specific schools courses and curriculum to answer that. Every school is different. Are the schools to learn Python in the classroom? yes. which, idk. to answer you question about do you need math to be a software engineer, yes - in general. coding often uses math as a way to explain things in the real world. to what level differs drastically based on the langauge and project, if you're just doing something like more graphic based work, say with Unity/C++/C like game development you'll likely regularly use arithmatic, some calc, etc, where as if you're doing analytical type work with a langauge like Python you'll use calc, statistics, possibly even trig. Python is a powerful language to handle math and data so think of it that way.

real python Aug 2, 2018, 12:29 PM

#

Formal CS and software engineering curriculum is almost all math, a language is really secondary to a lower level understanding of what, how, and why you're implementing things

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:35 PM

#

As someone in a formal CS track (Security focus) it's very math heavy, but don't let that scare you.

#

Calc, 1, 2, maybe 3 then DiffEq, depending on school

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:45 PM

#

It's v weird that you guys do diffeqs when they don't really show up in computer science at all from what I've seen

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:45 PM

#

shrug

#

Like I said, depends on school

#

Might be a security track

#

Might show up in crypto, I honestly am not that far yet

#

It makes sense

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:47 PM

#

It is close to impossible for differential equations to naturally show up in CS

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:47 PM

#

Maybe it's just fluff

#

I don't know why it's in there

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:48 PM

#

Engineering influenced maths syllabus. Americans have this way of thinking that calc is the next step in maths and the way to be better at maths is to follow the calc 1, 2, 3, diffeq track

#

V silly

#

Time would be much better spent learning optimisation/operations research or combinatorics

#

At least for CS

real python Aug 2, 2018, 12:49 PM

#

Can confirm, did dynamics & stuff just fine for AE in grad school, got floored when I took a freshman CS math class a couple years ago

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:49 PM

#

A lot of my degree actually has a law component too (since a lot of what we do can be illegal)

#

Law/Ethics of Hacking

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:50 PM

#

Silly Americans and their obsession with calc

#

But law/ethics of hacking is important

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:50 PM

#

I took an Alg-based physics class, don't look at me. I didn't learn until after that calc would have just made it easier for me

real python Aug 2, 2018, 12:51 PM

#

I love calc, but other than linalg none of my engineering math helped me with the math that CS uses

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:51 PM

#

I love calc and linalg

#

But I'm an engineer/physicist at heart

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:52 PM

#

Physics is more a...passion, for me

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:52 PM

#

Hasn't helped me for shit in CS either. Engineering/physics linalg is super different too

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:52 PM

#

I simply enjoy figuring how things work

#

Knowing how much energy is lost in a system is interesting to me. Things like that

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:52 PM

#

Learning about special unitary matrix groups is nothing like the matrices being used as a computation hack in ML in CS

real python Aug 2, 2018, 12:53 PM

#

it's too bad it didn't click with my brain better than it did, I really enjoyed graph theory and combinatrionics

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:53 PM

#

I can't pure maths to save my life lol

#

too much of an engineer

#

I'm quite interested in modern algebra

#

And analysis is alright

#

Number theory can be interesting

#

But the rest kills me

#

Anyways, we're offtopic

frank abyss Aug 2, 2018, 12:56 PM

#

Long story short: you will use math Rabs lol

main thicket Aug 2, 2018, 12:58 PM

#

Most likely won't

muted sundial Aug 2, 2018, 2:45 PM

#

I used to be a math die-hard. But then, it got too deep and i realized math is an unfathomable abyss. So I switch to computer programming because it is more verifiable and less theoritical

wanton holly Aug 2, 2018, 2:51 PM

#

^

solemn valley Aug 2, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

But computer programming can be very theoretical and maths is pretty verifiable, after all maths is mostly about verifying stuff or finding stuff

wheat kernel Aug 2, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

Well only useful maths is needed

#

And probability questions are mostly not needed in real world

#

Geometry is atleast used more than that

solemn valley Aug 2, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

Lots of probability is trying to approximate the real world isn't it?

spice bolt Aug 2, 2018, 3:24 PM

#

If I say "I don't use Facebook because it's a waste of time" in a job interview at Facebook and I meet all the requirements.
Do you think they'll hire me?

wanton holly Aug 2, 2018, 3:25 PM

#

no :D

#

i imagine employers would primarily look for a sincere interest in advancing some part of their business, and telling them you think it's a waste of time is the complete opposite of that ^-^

spice bolt Aug 2, 2018, 3:29 PM

#

facebook has many products, not just facebook.

vapid jay Aug 2, 2018, 3:30 PM

#

Just say you like it ?

#

not like you have to open up and be sincere 100%

cunning notch Aug 2, 2018, 3:36 PM

#

there's certainly a better way to phrase it than "it's a waste of time"

#

"I don't participate in social media in order to open up more time in other areas of my life"