career-advice

[fringe sphinx]

It's double edged, the ai boom has also dried up discretionary spending and redirected it all into data centers under the 'if you build it they will come' theory

I am curious what happens to the companies that bought a depreciating asset (data centers) and didn't invest in intellectual property. Well, not curious

[crude gull]

TLDR: companies want mo moneh

[peak halo]

The one command

[crude gull]

The golden rule: take the gold and then rule

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. There's some nuance. On one hand, there are surely companies that are facing insolvency for other reasons and AI is an easy scapegoat to hide bad investments. On the other hand, AI is still not a popular reason to layoff people, so who knows for certain where the true number lies. Still useful as a benchmark.

I should also note that in accordance with that same report, layoffs are slowing for other sectors, but tech is still the glaring exception.

[crude gull]

What sectors that are slowing down if you remember

[mortal wedge]

Sectors that are slowing down their layoffs and are starting to hire? Government is doing some decent hiring (the US government realized it fired/laid off too many important people), and aerospace/defense (unsurprisingly, those sectors do well in wartime). Automative seems to be the one that's growing the most, which I assume feeds into the "learn a trade" advice.

Couldn't tell you more detail than that as I can't bring myself to care 😂

Because I don't know about you guys, but I don't get any responses to underleveled roles or roles outside my industry.

[crude gull]

I know this advice has been said to death and it is a hit or miss but have you networked too?

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. I learned of a potential IT role through networking, I've gotten some interviews through networking. Even had a contact who was director level but he wasn't even able to get me an interview. I think they're still strong signal but definitely not as much of a sure thing as they have been, historically.

Although, I'm in the final stages of the interview process for a company and I found the role through responding to someone's linkedin post so

[crude gull]

Hell yeah!!

[mortal wedge]

Thanks 🙂 Here's hoping.

[crude gull]

Let me know if you got it. Glad that you're at least getting interviews. That's encouraging

[violet sparrow]

Hello guys, I'm 19 and I'd say my python is intermediate. I've worked with Flask, Streamlit and Django. Now I'm stuck in a phase of do I keep learning or do I start looking to build my career. I don't know where to start and I feel this pressure to be doing something with my life but I don't know whether I should try to build my own projects, search for job, use freelance platforms. I'm super confused and honestly freaking out a little at the fact that I apparently have "in-demand" skills but i'm not going anywhere

[trim crypt]

what was the last project you made?

[manic pewter]

btw guys, which website do you recommend me to use to learn hardware and electronics before computer engineering major (I already do programming and the software stuff)

[reef frigate]

can anyone refer me to a good free tutorials online for python i am still at a beginner level but steadily trying to improve

[trim crypt]

!learn from one of the recommended resource below 👇 Feel free to ask questions in #python-discussion or open a help thread in #1035199133436354600 when you're stuck learning about it. Read #❓｜how-to-get-help for instructions

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[reef frigate]

thanks brother

[manic pewter]

you know, try w3schools python

[stray narwhal]

guys how i would know if my pc voice having a problem

[next berry]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[violet sparrow]

a router configuration app. it's pretty basic but it helps network engineers not have to write out all the commands. still adding more features

[violet sparrow]

and an ai chatbot tutor

[pastel skiff]

Guys how long would I take to learn data analysis for python like completely from the start by oneself

[trim crypt]

As long as it takes

[pastel skiff]

On average twin

[trim crypt]

Its different for everyone. Some a few months, some a few years. What matters is you just start and keep progressing to the end

[pastel skiff]

Ight

[modern raven]

Hello Nice to meet you

[dull belfry]

Does cgpa matter for finding your first job

[potent fossil]

Nice joke with the few months

[next berry]

People with mathematically heavy backgrounds are a good example of those who can pick up programming from 0 to "grade level" in a few months.

[proud glacier]

depends entirely on the company

[strange seal]

Hi need a resume roast before I send it out should I send the redacted version here?

[proud glacier]

yep, you can send anonymized resumes here for critique

[strange seal]

Nice please critique thank you very much appreciate it

[vagrant flower]

i mean.... im in 8th grade and i have topped math ever since the start of my studies

does that qualify

[next berry]

Qualify for what? Your rate of learning is personal to you

[vast shoal]

Being good at math in 8th grade is good, but to be clear, it's not a strong predictor of future success with programming. People who were bad at math in school can and often do still become good programmers. And how fast you learn in the beginning is also not a strong predictor of success. The most important thing more than anything else is effort and experience. Smart people who give up don't become successful. People who keep at it do.

[warm vector]

It's pretty recently I realised that robotics is a nicher field for jobs than just programming in general.

I don't know if to be a generalist or a specialist. I really like robotics but I have to invest time in specialising for a niche field, which seems to be pretty risky these days

[mortal wedge]

For what it's worth, I found it to be the opposite. Being a specialist often gives you an advantage over others competing for the same role, in this market. All CS roles are competitive, but it's much harder to stand out when everyone is a generalist. At that point they'll probably go with someone who has skills in that niche, which is likely to be a specialist anyway.

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm. I'm a believer that generalists make better specialists than specialists.

[warm vector]

But won't being specialised reduce job opportunities since you'll be in a niche?

[mortal wedge]

Yes, reduced job opportunities, but you'll be more competitive for those opportunities

[mortal wedge]

This is just my experience in medtech. Other less regulated industries may be different. And I am specifically speaking just to hiring practices, I don't care to comment beyond that

I might also be being a bit reductionist there. I think having a decent baseline generalist competency is still a good idea. Enough to help you reason high level about the overall system you're working in and collaborate with other engineers.

[raw imp]

Hey y’all. I’m new to coding well literally learning from scratch and it looks so confusing. Could anyone tell me which language should I learn first so that understanding the rest 80% becomes somewhat easier and less confusing?

[next berry]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[pseudo wagon]

HTML

[fringe sphinx]

!ban 475048852013973516 Scam: Inviting people to message for "extra income"

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @stable nimbus permanently.

[glass flume]

as currently a grade student whos interested in programming but thinks ai usage to be quite defeating in a sense u could say, what career paths could be viable in cs, i think cybersecurity is pretty cool

[solid parcel]

SWE is still a viable career path, I wouldn't discount it merely because of AI. There's a huge amount of hyperbole and misinformation out there, not to mention a lot of orgs using it as a convenient cover for cuts.

It's worth looking at the SWE hiring activity of the frontier AI labs. They've been saying for 3+ years now that we won't be writing code 12 months from now. And yet, they're still hiring aggressively.

[glass flume]

its really depressing like looking through reddit and seeing piles and piles of posts complaining about ai n stuff, ty for replying

[vast shoal]

To be fair, I think what they generally mean by "we won't be writing code" is just that, we won't be manually writing code, not that we won't need SWEs. And they're not completely wrong about that.

[solid parcel]

Ha, yeah emotive posts gain more traction. People are more likely to engage with them, which in turn means those posts get served to more people. The unfortunate impact is that it makes it harder to get an accurate sense of what's actually going on.

It's entirely true that the market is rough at the moment, particularly for new grads. It's also true that some of that is attributable to AI. However, rather than it being a matter of orgs firing employees because they've had tremendous productivity gains from AI, a lot of them are simply needing to free up cash flow to pay for huge investments they're making (e.g. data centres. Things get expensive quick).

A lot of tech giants have been having reliability issues recently, at least some of which are due to excessive use of AI. Amazon, for example, has recently put out a mandate that AI generated code must be reviewed and approved by a senior engineer. Orgs are coming up against the rough edges of AI, and are finding they very much still need engineers guiding them.

[glass flume]

hmm thanks for the valuable insight, appreciate it

[solid parcel]

I do see some claiming the role will merely evolve, but also see a fair few claiming the need for SWEs at all will soon disappear

[mortal wedge]

The real answer is that nobody knows. I don't think the current state is accurate/sustainable, but who knows where it will wind up.

There's even no guarantee where society will wind up where it should wind up with AI, either. We are currently in a state of flux and market shock. In the US market, AI is being pushed hard as a headcount reduction tool and many companies are going all in on this push.

[open ivy]

Yes. I was saying earlier someone having "agents shoved down their throat". Edit: By the actions C suite people.

AI provides a compelling illusion of being human. Firstly, LLMs are specialized in holding conversations. This is a small part of what makes us us but we are hardwired to see "natural language" and think "human".

Secondly, is the enormous hype. AI is certainly useful, just not in the "just have AI agents be our employees and get rid of 90% of humans" sense. But it's very tempting to think that way.

[mortal wedge]

The majority of people have serious misconceptions with AI and I can’t even blame them, the AI companies themselves are often pushing those misconceptions and are incentivized to. The majority of public discourse conflates everything from expert systems to neural networks to linear regression to LLMs to chess algorithms as “AI”.

Unfortunately this also extends to politicians and c suite execs who are behaving somewhat predictably in response.

[open ivy]

Yes. Also, a lot of AI does what can be done much more cheaply by a clever generative algorithm. For example, a simple and elegant erosion model makes convincing terrain with realistic canyons and river deltas.

But when you have enough training data you can just brute force results that at least look good with AI (AI as in the kind of AI that involves huge weight tensors, not so much chess AI or video game pathfinding).

Trouble is, you lose a LOT in doing so. You lose accuracy compared to actually modelling the underlying dynamics. You lose performance. You lose interpretability.

The boon in AI was a boon in being able to get enough training data which is the bulk of the labour (often low paid and outsourced at that). But once Moore's law for dataset size breaks down AI development will likely shift toward elegant algorithms that pull from databases instead of huge weight tensors of everything mashed together.

(my idea is NOT novel at all, it is basically to build RAG networks. It's the implementation details that will be very fun challenges and career opportunities for those interested).

[next berry]

@open ivy are you okay?

[peak halo]

What about what they have said makes you think otherwise?

[next berry]

There's a lot of confusion about AI concepts, and this individual has frequently given false information before in terms of career advice regarding this

[peak halo]

you're allowed to challenge what they've said. that actually helps others get more than one perspective.

[silk warren]

Hey everyone

[waxen hare]

GUYSSSSSS. I just landed an internship for the summer. 🎉

So to the other fellow interns/Working folk. Whats some good tips for an intern to be standing out and not getting into trouble

[peak halo]

Interns are given tasks that are nice to have if they're completed, but which aren't necessary. You won't get into trouble unless you irritate people or behave inappropriately. But if you don't accomplish anything, you probably won't get invited back.

Your goal is to demonstrate that you would be valuable to them in a full-time entry-level position.

[cloud phoenix]

Guys I've mastered some of the essential concepts of python but don't know how to build experience by doing projects....like what should I do to build an app all by my own ... should I watch tutorials or just Google stuff ? Pls help

[trim crypt]

!kindling has some ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[trim crypt]

Also, please ask in #python-discussion . Not here

[cloud phoenix]

Aight

[flat cedar]

Hi

[trim crypt]

Hi and welcome! If you wanna talk about Python, head over to #python-discussion

[flat cedar]

Ok

[strange seal]

Any critique 😥😭

[trim crypt]

The experience is missing several info like company name and how long you've been at that company. Unless those are redacted?

[sacred skiff]

I feel so Σ

[mortal wedge]

So, I thought I had the final round, got an email from the company president to set up one more interview with the head of HR to talk comp and benefits. That's a good sign, right?

[next berry]

Yes

[fluid hare]

i feel so lambda

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[jaunty steppe]

!warn 1381477371974123583 We don't allow advertising

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @glossy zodiac.

[near ocean]

Sounds like it's a done deal unless you have some dark secret like in "the drama"

(if you do dont tell them)

[untold herald]

<@&831776746206265384> what ever that is

[tender thicket]

!cleanban 1499480814939799673 spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @dusty tendon permanently.

[ivory bone]

should I do masters

although I'm able to score good marks, studying has started to feel a lot more draining lately.. 🤕

[next berry]

What is your current situation? What are your goals? What have you looked at already? What are the main points for and against that you've considered already?

[urban hazel]

@proud glacier since your in hyderabad too, whats the qualifications for IIIT hyderabad?

i heard you dont have to write JEE and it has a compsci oriented entrance examination or something

[proud glacier]

There's a way to get in through the JEE too, but you need an insane percentile (i.e. if you get into IIIT-H via JEE, you could also get into NIT/IIT, and they would be way more affordable :P)
The other option, their own entrance examination, is called the UGEE. the exam itself is not "CS-oriented" really, it still has questions on Physics, Chemistry, and Math, but there are also more non-subject-specific logical reasoning and critical thinking style questions (what they call research aptitude). If you score high enough you will be invited for an interview where they gauge your talent and interest for research. As you can tell, they're very research-oriented.
Additionally, they also have another channel, where you can go to the interview stage without another entrance test, if you score very highly on your 12th board Mathematics exam. Or if you win a national medal or get selected to train to represent India at one of the international science olympiads.

[waxen hare]

Fair thanks

[urban hazel]

oh alright

[soft apex]

second year mathematics student here, im interested in data science and i wanna start off with data analytics. ive learned basic python from eric matthes book and now i am looking for a roadmap for python with data analysis. can someone help me

[ivory bone]

I'm doing IT in a government college currently (2nd year). The curriculum so far has been very introductory. I have looked into networking, backend development (APIs), Machine learning etc.. primarily used python and nothing else. When I say looked into, I mean introductory courses, freecodecamp videos and a few inexpensive bootcamps etc..

However I don't think anything clicked for me even though I've understood the stuff quite well. I'm also into visual stuff (graphic designing) so I'm exploring web development right now.

I want to carve out a niche for me where I can fuse design and coding. But I'm honestly feeling very lost about what I should pursue.

[strange seal]

Yes they were redacted

[trim crypt]

I guess its fine

[strange seal]

Thank you😭 😊 I am about to send it out, although the company reached out to me but I haven’t sent a resume in 2 years now I feel rusty

[solemn grove]

Can anybody help me with my resume review ??

[peak halo]

Go ahead and post it with uniquely identifying details removed. No need to wait for permission

[slender tree]

hello guys im new here and nice to meet you all

but i have a question if i mastering the python fundamental to build a simple automation to get a first paid freelance is that possible ?

[peak halo]

Unfortunately, the answer is basically no. There's so many people trying to freelance with Python that there's no way to get any jobs unless you have several years of experience.

[slender tree]

whats the full reason btw

but i see in freelance site have more a job to paid in python

[peak halo]

because if there's 1000 people trying to get one job, and one person has been doing jobs like that for years and is willing to do it for one dollar, that's not going to be you.

[slender tree]

ok ok

and then how to makes a first paid project whether im to learn a basic fundamental instead not to be a freelancer right now ?

[peak halo]

I don't think you'll make any money from programming for at least a few years.

!learn

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[peak halo]

here are some resources you can try

[slender tree]

alright thank you so much man

but what about the AI, if possible to make money on it or colaborate it with python right now ?

[peak halo]

all the easy ways to make money using AI have been taken.

[slender tree]

For example ?

[sonic escarp]

hello

[peak halo]

I haven't even thought of one. it's just a universal rule that as soon as an easy way to make money emerges, so many people do it that no one is willing to pay for it anymore.

[slender tree]

and the point is from you if want to get a first paid in this industry is to have a certificartion/specialist either to be a part time freelance and using Ai leverage

[peak halo]

the job market is really bad right now. in general, the most straightforward way to make money from programming is to get a degree in computer science (or similar) and apply for internships.

[slender tree]

what about cybersecurity from python ?

[peak halo]

jobs in cybersecurity also require a lot of formal training

[slender tree]

but in social media i see a lot freelancer to make money especically in python im searchin in the internet

[next berry]

These freelancers will have years of experience, or they're selling you a dream/course that isn't true

[slender tree]

damn

so to be a freelancer in python is not realistic to make a first paid projects ?

but why i ask to ai is so possible rn ?

[next berry]

How many people do you think there are with basically no experience, competing over freelancer work?

[slender tree]

so much i think

[next berry]

I don't understand what this means

[next berry]

Ok so why would people be paying a lot of money for it then

[slender tree]

sorry i mean but why i ask Ai is so possible to be a freelancer python right now

[next berry]

I really don't understand your question

[peak halo]

I recommend writing your question in your native language and using a translator. I can't understand what you're trying to say at all either.

In either case, there are no freelance jobs that can be done entirely with AI. If there were, the person who wants it would just use AI and wouldn't offer the job.

[icy pagoda]

which also cuts down on a lot of "automation scripting" jobs you could have gotten away with during 2021ish

[crude gull]

Don't want to discourage anyone but this is from a friend who is in CS: getting an internship is also very scant and hard to come by. He's struggling over there and he has experience

Not saying its impossible but its going to be hard

[peak halo]

I believe it.

And "to discourage someone" can mean two different things. One is to suggest that someone not go in a direction that you think is bad for them. The other is just trying to crush people and being sadistic.

The present reality is that even skillful people who try to enter tech right now aren't going to be successful, through no fault of their own. We'd be doing people a disservice if we didn't warn them of that.

[crude gull]

That's true. I think the better term would be "warning" and also "don't get your hopes up if things don't go as planned". Shit happens unfortunately and all you can do is keep trucking along.

[lime badge]

10 YOE here, finished a diploma just this month and I haven't gotten any interviews the entire year and last. its definitely hard out there

a part of me thinks it was a mistake to go back to school and that I should've tried a little harder to find employment

[crude gull]

It aint you, bud.

[last moat]

does linkedin premium helps to land a job?? finding and messaging HR managers and recruiters??

[solid parcel]

I've not really found it makes much of a difference. Definitely worth putting in some time to get your LinkedIn profile into a decent state, though

[last moat]

I want to target small startups or pre-seed startups/new startups for job. how do i find them and submit resume?

[solid parcel]

LinkedIn is still a great place to find jobs, you just don't need Premium to do it

They give out free trials like candy anyway, so by all means give it a try and see if you think it's worth paying for.

[last moat]

i have seen a lot of small companies/startups hiring people using simple linkedin posts not actual job posts that comes on linkedin job page. whenever i search keywords like #hiring #remote etc it does show posts but only from my own country not worldwide (very few posts from other countries). is there some kind of algorithm that shows most posts from same country?

[solid parcel]

You can filter jobs on LinkedIn by location, but I'm not aware of a way to do the same for posts.

[proud glacier]

@spring fog this is not the place for random memes

[spring fog]

jus wanted to lighten up the mood.

alr i wont send it

[proud glacier]

Thanks. Please also delete them.

[tawdry raven]

Hello, I am learning python in the AI age, I already have 7 years of nonsense IT experience, and I am a beginner in coding. Am I cooked?

[near ocean]

Starting out with this mindset kinda does the cooking for you

[solid parcel]

What does your experience in IT look like so far?

[dense mist]

Any advice for me who is getting to start college

[peak halo]

You need to do something interesting that distinguishes you from other students. If the only thing you have going for you is that you have a CS degree, employers will always pick someone else who has a CS degree and at least one other interesting attribute.

[charred temple]

I remember there was this Asian guy, he was discouraging people from getting into tech and saying stuff like "You'll never be as great as me"

Trash person that made me rethink my decision, hope his pillow is always warm

[regal axle]

are you talking about that lame "ex facebook" guy who now just tries to grift off people and scam them out of their money?

If so; that is guy is trash. It will be quite easy to be better than him, you got this!

[charred temple]

He's asian

His name is tofu dev or smth like that, I don't remember exactly but his videos were always discouraging

[chilly goblet]

i want to get back into coding but i dont have motivation ik the very basics in pycharm but im learning by myself can someone give me tips or help?

[peak halo]

!learn

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[peak halo]

By the way, pycharm is just an editor (albeit with tons of features). It doesn't actually run the code.

[minor reef]

I have a research project involving the use of camera object detection and Id like to gain a solid understanding of OpenCV before (tool in research might not be OpenCV but at the end of the day they’re all similar) .What are the best ressources ?

[peak halo]

Ask in #data-science-and-ml

[next berry]

Was it necessary to specify their (assumed) race in this statement?

[open ivy]

Friday I went to this AI startup meetup. Most of them didn't seem to have a good grasp of how to leverage a team of humans + AI. What tasks can humans do that AI still struggles with? How best to synergize workers with AI models? Stuff like that.

The pervasive mood was "AI will replace everyone soon".

Have any of you seem a similar vibe at startup meetups? It doesn't seem like good business acumen.

[fringe sphinx]

This stuff really isn't the point of this channel. Maybe ask in OT?

[charred temple]

No, I'm trying to describe who he is because he showed his face on his videos, I forgot his name so I assumed someone knew him.

[frozen jolt]

hello all. is there anyone here currently employed as a front end dev that would be willing to talk w me

[peak halo]

There are probably several. Go ahead and ask your questions and people who have answers can give them.

[frozen jolt]

I just want to know what a day in the life looks like. Obv it will vary by the employer but what does a project entail. What are the main daily tasks you preform. Any advice for someone currently grinding very hard for that goal

[near swan]

Hey, if i study electronics engineering do i get to work on computer stuff? like cybersecurity?

[stone walrus]

Hello guys
What’s up

[peak halo]

you're talking about at a university? you should tell the faculty (such as the admissions counselor or the student advisor) what your goals are, and they can tell you what the university can do to help you achieve them.

[tawdry raven]

It’s mostly data visualisation

[worn blaze]

I've just started my coding journey with python. I am a beginner but I wanted to become someone who can add values to people's lives. I don't know the correct path to follow but I'm figuring it out..!

[still arrow]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[uncut narwhal]

I am beginner in Python language, and I started this career and I wanna learn it to get a best Job in upcoming future. (I want to learn it like in interesting way, not like boring way)

[fickle bramble]

The word you are looking for isn't interesting, it is likely fulfilling, because it can get boring and frustrating

Fulfillment means you can stay with working with Python even during the boring and frustrating parts, but then say "yes, this was all worth it. I find the process of getting here fulfilling, not just the results of solving the problem."

[stone walrus]

guys im gonna tell u smtng witch is im really curios about programming
Idk how to start learning

[amber locust]

!learn

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[merry ledge]

do i need to do anything like thank you messages or linkedin posts as my internship is ending and i accepted a position elsewhere?

[peak halo]

you can if you want to, but I think most developers see linkedin as a cesspool of self-congratulatory bullshit and corporate slop shitposts. at best, it's a way to get noticed by recruiters.

[merry ledge]

what about private posts just in the work teams chat

am i expect to do anything at all or can i just dip quietly? i dont know what is normal

[peak halo]

kind words are never wasted. if you want to express gratitude to the people you've worked with at the internship, just do it.

[solid parcel]

Honestly just ping them a message on Teams thanking them before you go, and then when you start the new role post about it new role on LinkedIn for visibility.

[near ocean]

You say thank you for the opportunity and that you hope to work with them again in the future, even if you dont mean it

[solid parcel]

On a related note, started the senior SRE role today 🙂 Looking forward to getting properly stuck into things, there's tons of observability work to do

[merry ledge]

IBM still hasnt emailed me back

beyond unprofessional but whatever im in no position to be picky

[peak halo]

that's not necessarily a bad thing. IBM is a pretentious and obnoxious company.

[merry ledge]

its a bad thing cause it takes away my excitement and just makes me anxious

[merry ledge]

good luck! learn lots of stuff and mog everyone

[solid parcel]

Fully intending to, haha. My boss is pragmatic and understands it'll take a few months for me to get up to speed, particularly given the dissertation. So I'm very pleased he's got that awareness

[merry ledge]

i hope mine has the same cause i dont even know what language im working in

[merry ledge]

also i want my relocation money 🙁

[hallow quarry]

Man, seeing people be able to get jobs in CS is always something to be applauded. Meanwhile, I'm getting stumped by calling functions within functions😅

[hexed jewel]

how do you guys manage working on personal projects and work at the same time?

[merry ledge]

work is only 8-10 hours

[hexed jewel]

but i get burned out

[vast shoal]

Claude

[hexed jewel]

im using that for both work and personal

[vast shoal]

I mean, the workflow with Claude means that rather than having to focus 100% of my attention on a task at a time, I prepare and trigger agents working on long-running jobs in parallel, so I can do that for both personal and work projects at the same time.

[hexed jewel]

how does that even work?

[vast shoal]

I can sort of interleave the work of reviewing output and triggering new jobs across multiple projects.

[vast shoal]

Like, write big prompt for work project A, run agent, write big prompt for work project B, run agent, write big prompt for personal project C, run agent, wait until one of them finishes, review output, write new prompt, rinse repeat.

[hexed jewel]

but what about slop

[vast shoal]

That's what the review is for

[hexed jewel]

i hate code reviewing slop

[vast shoal]

If you use a good model, prompt correctly (set up rules, conventions, architecture documentation, etc) and set up static guardrails (tests, linters, etc.), then the outputted code is typically not that bad to start with. But yeah, the work mainly becomes code review and making design decisions.

I don't mind that, I like doing the thinking and designing part, and I like being productive.

[open ivy]

It's the opposite of the silver bullet. Embrace a solution where a bunch of little steps get you there slowly. My last job and my schooling was hard work but didn't stop me even though it slowed me down a bit.

1. Replace driving with transit and work on your projects during transit. If possible.
2. Hang out in makerspaces which have people in tough situations who still pursue their passions.
3. Be wary of mentally stimulating tasks during downtime if you are tired. Spend 20 min doing nothing or doing a peaceful meditative task first.
4. Recognize that burnout in most cases is more dangerous to a job than setting boundaries. Jobs will get as much work as possible out of you, and it's your job to set a sustainable pace. Burnout risks losing a job.
5. Don't over-scope projects. Perhaps have one small and a big project going in parallel, where you can at least complete the small one in a couple weeks or so and have the big one as a "wow this would be cool" but far away goal.
6. Study how people in difficult situations stay creative and innovative. What tactics do they use?

[next berry]

Why the obsession over makerspaces? Also why work on transit lol

[open ivy]

Makerspaces have a very high concentration of people working on personal projects.

It's much easier to work on a bus or a train than while driving a car. Also, if you make sure that the bus commute time is dedicated to your personal projects, even if it isn't an ideal office, it will still at least force you to get something done.

[fringe sphinx]

Generally, you're referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeboxing

[open ivy]

Yes, that's a good term for it. A public transit commute (assuming they have a commute) makes for a decent timebox unless it gets super packed.

[drowsy cove]

i am a first year first sem mechatronics student and am really enjoying doing leetcode problems should i maybe try a double degree in cs or software engineering or is this kinda stuff only a small part of these degrees and i would be better off learning on my own

i am really enjoying my degree but also feel that i dont learn as much coding as i would maybe like

[peak halo]

I'm pretty sure mechatronics degree holders are expected to be able to code, so I doubt you'd need a CS double or minor to convince employers that you can.

if you want to do a CS double or minor, and there aren't any obstacles to doing so, then by all means. but I doubt it's necessary.

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[summer roost]

!pban 1500859934751985797 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @coral cradle permanently.

[balmy mural]

I commute for over an hour each way currently (public transport). No chance I'm spending that time working. I sit back and relax. Read a book, or listen to a podcast

[autumn mist]

yeah really good.

[modest kraken]

To all the employed people out there

APPARENTLY, as I’ve heard from friends, meta has been mandating that most code should be written by LLMs among its software teams, along with other companies as well. My experience is that LLMs are decent for drafting code, but a lot more time is spent reviewing and rewriting, often to the detriment of my own familiarity with the code. But the fact that big companies are mandating that most their code be generated by ai, plus startups even saying that every single line of theirs is, makes me wonder if I’m missing something. Do they have a thing that magically makes their agent output better code? Are these practices not actually followed? How much time do they spend reviewing, and what will happen when there’s a drought of swes as people more and more push the idea of “you don’t need to understand how the code works’?

[blazing remnant]

Hey! Data Analyst here. 📊 If you need help organizing files, cleaning data, or automation with Python/Excel/SQL, I'm at your disposal. Feel free to reach out via DM!

[vast shoal]

Most of the quotes I've heard about mandating using LLMs seems to have originated from large companies with a vested interest in AI tech, so I'd take that with a grain of salt. That being said, as I described above, I do find that using Claude Code with Opus 4.x is very helpful for the vast majority of manual programming tasks, not just producing drafts but really any situation where I have an idea in my head and I want to turn it into code. So in practice I write very little manual code recently. But how well it works depends a lot on how I structure my workflow. Just saying "build me X" where X is a one-line description of a feature generally doesn't work very well. I also meticulously review all the output to ensure that I'm mentally aligned with the state of the code I'm producing. I typically work in short iterations where I implement small subtasks one at a time and stop and evaluate in between each one. I also think I rely quite a lot on my many years of experience as an SWE, but it's hard to estimate exactly how important this factor is, i. e. how well this approach would work for someone with less experience.

[modest kraken]

I see, thanks. How do you have Claude opus? Are you paying for it? I think one thing I’m frankly afraid of it stagnation because I’m never going to learn more reading code then I am actually writing it.

[vast shoal]

I pay for it myself. I can also use it through my company's Copilot license, but the token budget and CLI tools are worse, so I prefer my own Claude subscription.

[vast shoal]

As for stagnation, I find that I've been focusing more on higher-level thinking lately. I was previously so busy with the manual act of producing code and manually fiddling with CLI commands that I didn't have a lot of time and energy to think about the bigger picture. Now I feel like I spend a lot more time thinking about architecture and non-functional requirements. Like, the actual work becomes more like a long sequence of design decisions rather than typing, and since I spend more time making decisions, I feel like I'm getting better at it.

[balmy mural]

On the other hand, Amazon has mandated that any LLM generated code has to be reviewed by senior engineers because of incidents tied to AI assisted changes

[modest kraken]

Makes sense.

[modest kraken]

Oh, really? Interesting.

[drowsy dove]

Not sure if it's related to AI but github is down every other day too

[plush copper]

guys, i was about to finish my engineering degree, but got into an accident and have about 4-5 months until i can finish it.... what kind of skills should i develop along with my understanding of python,dsa and to get a job after the 5 months...
i am really confused as to what direction i should move towards... what are the skills that are currently being valued

[mighty stirrup]

Hi,I have 5 years in game industry as an animator is it possible to switch careers to the data field (data engineer or data analyst) at age 27?

[fringe sphinx]

Don't think of it as specific 'skills', think of it as gaining experience building things and a good foundation where you can tackle a variety of projects.

[fringe sphinx]

Building a game, a web app, a data project, a calculator, doing something with a raspberry pi, etc all are good experiences. Do enough different things and you'll be able to do anything

[fringe sphinx]

Sure anything's possible, I'd ask yourself: what skills and experiences do I have that I can leverage? Rather than thinking of it as giving up on your knowledge/background

[astral dawn]

yes why not this is highly demand in industry i also moves my web app work into AI AUTOMATION

i started learning Rag , AI System Architecture, Multi Agent Orchestration

at 19 age

[broken bane]

Hidoi na

[loud fractal]

Any good ways to learn?

[fringe sphinx]

!slorb

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[loud fractal]

Thx

[slate bramble]

Hi

Can we find jobs here?
If yes can please someone explain me procedure?

[urban hazel]

no u cant

[slate bramble]

Ok

[urban hazel]

you can ask for advice on how to get a job though

[copper agate]

Hello everyone

Need a advice 🥲

I am a student of Software Engineering in 2nd Semester but I know programming and doing a full time remote job as a Junior Developer of Google Sheets and Appscript.

But I need or you can say I want to learn something else , something new like agentic ai and such kind of stuff.

But I completed my Python Bootcamp of 3 months from a foreign instructor and have a good grip of REST Apis , logical thinking , OOPs , Version Control as I started all this even before the university and have a good grip of that as well and DSA as well routinely.

But sometimes I feel like I should work in web dev and learn JavaScript, React Next.js & sometimes I feel like starting in the field of agentic ai

And sometimes I think of system Designs and you know other stuff

And I'm in a bit of a confusion what should I start .

You might be busy but a min or two will help a lot.

Thank you very much 😊

[peak halo]

Does your employer have an LLM API that you can use for experimenting with agentic development?
try to avoid having lots of blank lines in your messages, so that messages aren't displaced too quickly.

[copper agate]

Sorry for blank lines and no they don't have a LLM

[peak halo]

I would encourage you to learn about agentic engineering if it interests you, but you need an LLM that you can make calls to.

[copper agate]

Sure can I use Gemini or any Ollama like stuff
BTW I have ollama installed

[ruby swift]

hey, uh just looking for answers here. im currently using Python Flask as my backend when building my school projects. i have heard fast API and i read somewhere it's good to use it. I wonder if i should switch to fastAPI this early or should i keep using flask. any answer would help. im currently using react js as my frontend. im kinda deciding which one helps more long term since i plant ot continue using the tools outside school for building my skillsets. thanks

[copper agate]

If you are using react J's than definitely FASTAPI is solid choice
And nothing is early or late just do it.

[ruby swift]

alright thank you. i'll start to read about fast API little by little

[errant fern]

Solid choice 👍

[static fiber]

hlo

i am going to join college after 2 months and want to start with python , can someone advice from where to start , what resources i shall use as a beginner

[amber locust]

!learn

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[astral dawn]

okay! before starting Agentic AI u need , you learn FastAPI and MCP when ever you building a project "personal AI Assistant" you should know how to integrate MCP (model context protocol) standard way to calling a tools fetching data to server
example i have Personal AI Assistant , this Assiatant handle my github profile i said go to my github and make a repo name " openclaw " and its done , HOW! this is possible , Answers simple MCP i give acces my github to my AI Assistant to handle my github ..

[arctic portal]

@undone osprey

[static fiber]

okayy but from where , there are a lot of resources online and as a beginner its hard for me to figure out

[amber locust]

That's why the list contains 4 resources. but if you want, there's the extended list at: https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/

[static fiber]

okayy

i want to ask i am also studying a book python crash crouse is it okayy?

i feel that python crash course is more like beginner friendly

[amber locust]

Yes, it's one of the listed resources

It's not that if something doesn't appear in the resources it's not good. but if something is in the resources page, then it's been selected for a reason

[static fiber]

okayy

thanks a lot sir

[open ivy]

That's a much better use of time than doom-scrolling like most people on transit do. Maybe this is the break that @hexed jewel needs? So when they do get home they won't be so exhausted and can actually do projects.

Working on transit myself works for me. But not for all people. Strategies need to be flexible.

[mighty spire]

I just look at the sigths withougth doing anything when i conmute back, it is quite a good time to think about proyect arquitecture even when i wouldnt put out my computer on public transport due to security and confort. When you are bored for a good while while and restrict alternatives you start working in the proyects usually

[open ivy]

That is a minority. What are most people doing? Phone glue.

The average american spends over 2 hours a day on phone. If you take 15 hours a week and turn it into productive OR into restorative activities (most phone use is neither) you gain a LOT.

[mortal wedge]

Has anyone ever had like…. I’ve had 20 recruiters reach out to me about the same role. I’m not even exaggerating

Maybe it's just too niche and not many qualified applicants

[solid parcel]

Very funny, no I have not. Most has been 3-4 about the same role, 20 is mad

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, I've started keeping track for fun. Next recruiter who tries I'll tell them "You're caller number 21" 😂

[solid parcel]

Something I enjoy is when a recruiter reaches out with a lowball range (not usually their fault, just daft expectations from their client) and then I see it creeping up across the months as different recruiters contact me about it, lol. As the client slowly, begrudgingly lets them increase the range 😆

[mortal wedge]

Haha, yup! That's why I'm being considered now. It used to be strict 15+ YOE, no exceptions. Then they lowered it to 12. Then to 10+ Now "close to 10" so I'm getting calls 😂

(I'm sitting at 8 YOE in a very niche specialty)

Well, I suppose very niche is debatable, but certainly doesn't seem to be a ton of qualified candidates in optimizing developing optimized signal processing algorithms for biosensors in the life science space.

[solid parcel]

Certainly more niche than me, I just keep systems reliable 😁

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, there's usually not a ton of overlap between the more sciencey people doing the rapid prototyping stuff vs the people optimizing for inference, but I have both so that makes me valuable in this niche. Being in the life sciences specifically as well it's no wonder I'm on the call list for all the firms. (But I still haven't actually talked to anyone at the company, lol)

And hey, reliable systems are important!

But honestly, I kind of liked being niche in the job hunt, if for no other reason than there's like.... once I've applied to all the relevant roles in the country I can just stop for the day. And they aren't released so frequently that doing that means non-stop applying

[mortal wedge]

Well, today is the second time I've been one of two finalists for a role. Law of averages guarantees I "win" this one, right? 🥹

[amber locust]

yes

[keen stump]

new one here , I am here to lear from the elder devlopers and to learn how to read the syntax

[amber locust]

!learn If you're this new checkout this

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[amber locust]

@keen stump ☝️

[keen stump]

my fault is my English is kinda mid

[amber locust]

mine as well:)

[keen stump]

were you from

[amber locust]

If I'll tell you, we are not going to be friends anymore. let's keep it a secret:)

[keen stump]

just tell im very not rasicm one im very kind exept for the damn fucking israelians

[amber locust]

Wouldn't it be really awkward if I were a fucking Israeli

[keen stump]

u are ?

@amber locust just tell

[solid parcel]

Understandable sentiment given current geopolitics, though worth remembering that the actions of a government are not necessarily representative of the views of their people

[mortal wedge]

And at the very least, not all of their people

[solid parcel]

Yeah I also wanted to make this point, but didn't want to turn my comment into an essay 😁

[mortal wedge]

But either way, gentle reminder to everyone that this is #career-advice

[keen stump]

yh but the goverment are the monsters

[peak halo]

This conversation can serve no productive purpose here, so please direct your feelings about it elsewhere.

[keen stump]

ok

[errant crater]

did your english became this much better practicing essay/precise. or you’re an native speaker

[mortal wedge]

I'm very confused by this question, but I'm a native speaker.

[slate solstice]

Hey, looking for some outside perspective on this. Got a message from leadership at my company today (small-ish company, around 50 people):

"Per [exec]'s message the other day, the exec team wanted to get everyone together sooner rather than later for an update on the business. We'll be walking through our current financial position, where we're focused, and the steps we're taking to make sure [company] continues to be a great place to work and build great things. This is an important session, so we appreciate everyone's effort to be there. However, we will also record, and [exec] will run a separate session for our folks in the European time zone."

Context:

• A company offsite happened about 1.5-2 months ago, where the message was that things were going fine

• About a week ago, a VP-level role was eliminated, framed as the role no longer aligning with the company's strategic direction

-This all-hands was scheduled shortly after, about a week out from the announcement today.

Should i be worried and am i reading into this too much?

[vast shoal]

I'm not sure what new information you hope to get by asking this question. It seems like yes, there's reason to worry, but it's impossible to know if it's bad or how bad it is before that meeting.

But I'm sure you've arrived at that conclusion already.

[slate solstice]

I guess i am also asking does this mean definetly bad news?

[vast shoal]

I don't think there's any way anybody could say that for sure.

And I mean, maybe it's bad news for the company, but maybe it's not that bad, maybe it won't be bad for you. Who knows?

Like, how could anyone in this channel peer into the minds of the leadership at your company?

[slate solstice]

Yeah true, thank you for the advice and help ✅

[toxic sparrow]

hello

[copper agate]

Okhaay
Thanks for mentioning

[errant crater]

yeah you are an native speaker therefore
for non native speakers to be at that level they have to practice essay writing or para writing.

[mighty spire]

Do you want recomendations on how to improve your english? If that is the case i can share you my recomendations, i am also a non native speaker

[errant crater]

Yeah I really struggle to write any para like that moderator

[dense mist]

Yeah,I have intermediate python knowledge and learning fastapi(from freevodecamp),I started fastapi to learn web dev,is that okay bcoz I really don't get why we use fastapi,Django,orm(specially this)

[peak halo]

are you talking about ML engineering or agentic system engineering?

[empty marten]

agentic system engineering i believe

ai to product connector / ai wrapper guy

[peak halo]

Python has a significant ecosystem for that, but I imagine other languages do, too.
Python has the market completely cornered for actual ML, though.

[empty marten]

i have got a job offer from a senior.

he asked me to learn couple of things

[peak halo]

when you say you have a job offer, do you mean they're literally saying "you can have this job and we want you to sign this so you can start doing it"? or have you just been invited to interview?

[empty marten]

including python fastapi some docker architecture things and some ai specifics not necessarily ML

[empty marten]

i was invited for the interview but idk couple of things they require lately so i asked for 3 months to get through all of required tools (I know the guy and he is on a senior position).

python fastapi docker different architectures agentic ai API workflow etc. i believe its "ai engineer" or the ai wrapper guy position.

[solid parcel]

Have they actually agreed to that? There's a huge difference between being invited to a first interview, and having a job offer in hand

[empty marten]

i am invited and the senior said he'd let me through everything. he is my friend, i can trust the guy.

[near ocean]

Why did you schedule it for 3 months from now if its that sure of a thing

[solid parcel]

Networks are powerful, though I wouldn't count your chickens until you've actually gone through the rounds. How large is the org? Particularly if it's a bigger company, the decision on who to hire may not just be up to the engineer you know

[dense mist]

It might be some internship prog

[empty marten]

idk much about python, my basic understanding of how enterprise software works and it's architecture is pretty poor. idk anything about agentic ai either.

i have started programming a year and half ago, i know linux bash lua and some java which aren't enough to get me through the interview.

[near ocean]

But you said the senior dev said he'd let you through everything, so why not start the job now and learn on the job

[empty marten]

30-50 people. 4-5years

[empty marten]

i am afraid i might loose the opportunity if the HR rejects me.

[solid parcel]

Cool, tiny org, then. That's good in this case- their hiring process won't be as standardised as at larger orgs, so they'll have more individual discretion about who to take on

[near ocean]

HR rejecting you has nothing to do with your performance in the tech interview
They might reject you for a billion other reasons

[empty marten]

i have never given actual corporate interviews yet. idk how things work and who has the most power.

[empty marten]

yes. they want someone who'd be willing to learn is their hiring moto. idk how true it is.

[solid parcel]

Particularly for junior roles, attitude is massively important. Technical skills can be trained, personality can't to the same degree. I'd take them at their word (though of course learning what you can beforehand would be beneficial).

[empty marten]

yes i agree. i am trying to go through couple of pretty obvious things to not find myself in an embarrassing moment if i get selected.

i have started learning python couple of days ago and i am planning to go through fastapi with one or two web socket server projects to get an idea of how enterprise software works and then the ai part.

[solid parcel]

It's also more than okay to say if you don't know something. It's common for interviewers to look to push to the edge of your knowledge. If you do say you don't know something, it's generally a good idea to either make an informed guess and walk them through why you believe your guess is likely to be the case, or to articulate how you'd go about finding out.

[empty marten]

that actually could work. what else is their that i should focus on other than python to get through this interview?

appreciate your help EscapeRoom.

[solid parcel]

Honestly your best bet is to ask the senior engineer for guidance on what to prioritise, and to read through the job spec if they've made one available already. No need to try and learn everything, but focusing on the key skills they ask for would be beneficial.

I'd also recommend looking into STAR answers. It's a useful technique for giving informative answers to a question without rambling, so great to know for interview. Also worth reading on the company website to get a sense of how they talk about themselves, the work they've been doing recently, any key values they have... It helps to show you've taken an interest.

I'd also prep answers for a few common questions like 'Tell me about yourself'. It's worth looking on Glassdoor in case anyone has posted interview questions from the company on there, though given how small it is you might not find anything.

[empty marten]

this is a lot of help. i have asked him and he said he is going to provide the JD( job description ) which idk what it is but along with this some of the company specifics so i am just trying to go through all of this.

i will look for the STAR ques-answers too. i am not that great with "tell me about yourself" kind of questions but guess 3 months is enough to prepare for such.

thanks for your Escape.
really appreciate your time.

[solid parcel]

No problem, and good luck! I massively recommend talking through your answers to some questions out loud. You'll likely suck at first, which is more than okay.

It takes me a little time to get back into the swing of things if I've not interviewed for a while, but the effort is always worth it. I regularly get feedback on being articulate and personable, which can give you a big leg up on other candidates that haven't put in the effort to prepare, or who have fixated on the technical side and forgotten the soft skills element.

[empty marten]

can't agree more. thanks for your help again Escape. do you happen to know any good resources as a last thing to ask for practising interviews and how the entire process yields.

[solid parcel]

For the kind of role you're going for here, not particularly. For FAANG-esque orgs, I find Hello Interview to be stellar (this is not me saying to use it for this particular interview, but it's a resource worth being aware of depending on what you try and target in future).

Glassdoor is also broadly a good resource, particularly when it comes to understanding the process at larger orgs. That said, nothing beats knowing an engineer that works at the org you're targeting. They can give you up to date info, context on the process, and will have already gone through it at some point themselves.

[mighty spire]

I would recomend you to use english lenguage and subtitles as much as possible, with books being one of the best sources for learning better english. Then if possible go to a particular and if not available get a studentbook and workbook to start learning, with a focus on gramatical structure. Once you get all of the gramatical structures and are confortable with them it is more about broadening lenguage and using it correctly

[heady dirge]

hey guys I'm in highschool, and want to apply some of my rudimentary python skills to possibly make some money, what do yall think I should do? (intern, online services, tutoring, etc) as in what will have the highest chance of success?

[maiden steeple]

Hey. To be fair, in highschool (i graduated 3-4 years ago), i feel like you're better off tutoring. It's easy to do, you don't need to be an expert and can get like 15 to 30 €/h. Dont be afraid to price high, and tell your teachers you're tutoring : they might refer you (at least thats how i got my clients back then)
You can try freelancing on fiverr or upwork , but the market is sooo saturated i wouldn't even bother.
If u want to make money you can also just reach out to small businesses and offer to automate something, but i think that as an highschooler you can focus on experience and just grind opensource contribution (not github tho its dying)
Internships are HARDDDD to come by, cause they often ask like CS level skills.
So in short: tutoring

[heady dirge]

thanks so much! if not github then where should I contribute to opensource? I'm not really too familiar with any of the other ones...

[maiden steeple]

I mean github is still fine to start, but i personally recomend Bitbucket or Codeberg. There's plenty of youtube videos explaining what you should do before your first contribution and stuff, so have fun man

[heady dirge]

alr bet

[maiden steeple]

Hmu if u need anything i used to be like you haha

[fast fossil]

GitHub is not dying, unless they meant literally, every now and then they have some outages, it's still an alright platform where a ton of open source projects live and will likely continue to live there, that said, the platforms are not really that different, another big one is GitLab

[maiden steeple]

Agreed

[fast fossil]

also, regarding your options, if you can get an internship, I would go for that

[heady dirge]

yeah idk whos gon hire me xd but ill send some apps

[fast fossil]

well, if you have a portfolio to show them, that would improve your chances

in fact, that's probably something you'll want to do anyway, do you have projects under your belt? you should probably make some if not

[near ocean]

Anyone here ever successfully push back on AI adoption at work? How did it go and how did you convince people?

[solid parcel]

In order for there to be something to push back on, my org would have to work out how to actually adopt the damn thing, first 😆

[near ocean]

Thats the thing, what im pushing back on is code review agents that just randomly showed up one day and now comment publicly on PRs

[mortal wedge]

I’ve only heard stories about pushbacks going poorly. It’s being driven HARD towards Csuites as a cost saving measure

[near ocean]

This wasnt communicated at all to us
Im not having a conversation with a clanker in a public forum

[mortal wedge]

Honestly I prefer comments to them just pushing PRs :/ but yeah I hear you

[solid parcel]

Is it materially causing issues? If not, it's probably a battle I'd leave, tbh

[near ocean]

Perhaps its a configuration issue, this fucking guy suggests I reply to their messages for more info, examples, sources, instead of just posting them

Its really nailing the annoying coworker attitude tbh, except its not a real person i can complain to

[mortal wedge]

Document their behavior and then try to get them fired

[urban hazel]

i successfully failed in doing so in my school

my classmates are addicted to ai. like man each and every practical work is done by ai

[vast shoal]

Maybe write a browser script to hide Copilot (or whichever one it is) comments from your PRs and pretend they don't exist.

[vale blade]

Hi

[snow zinc]

Uhh what do they usually ask in business analyst interview?

As intern position

[next berry]

How large is the company?

What do they (primarily) focus on?

What country are you applying to work in?

Have they provided any information or resources to look at?

Have you checked Glassdoor and other similar websites?

[snow zinc]

Company is payoneer

They mentioned it won't be coding heavy mostly excel

They just mentioned someone who can think in business terms and use excel and google sheets

Country: India

I dont think they provided anything I'll check the practise test at codejudge

Thats where they are taking the test

I haven't checked the glassdoor will do it

[errant crater]

But right now I’m reading philosophy books
To make my English better
Is there any book you prefer to read and can enhance my grammatical structure

[next berry]

Is this careers related

[errant crater]

Probably,
bc my major is English

[lusty orbit]

does this server have any channel where i can post my "hire me" kind of msg?

[peak halo]

No, and it's against the rules

you should look for jobs on proper job boards. Jobs that you find on Discord are usually scams.

[lusty orbit]

oo

didnt know that, even google gemini said check python's os for job board haha

[solid parcel]

Honestly if your goal is to improve your English, philosophy books are not something I'd recommend. They tend to be extremely dense, dry, academic and at points use archaic language, particularly when presenting arguments from historical philosophers. The way we spoke in the 1700s is not particularly indicative of the way we speak today!

[mighty spire]

I like some of the clasical literature for improving as a starting point, like The old man and the sea, but it is more about reading books you like and getting used to the lenguage and the structures you practised, they serve to have a good time and keep the writing in the back of your head, they usually have great gramatical structures and flow, so you read then and enjoy them and uncounciously retain a bit of there writing style

My learning of english was more about knowing the fundamentals with my clases and then using it in media for reading, and listening to english all the time, it becomes second nature at a point

[errant crater]

Yeah they are
And the vocabs I find I really can’t use them in my daily life..
Any book you prefer..

[errant crater]

Yeah like now I understand what you are saying
But if I were to write a paragraph like that
I’ll suck
Idk why..
And thanks
I’ll try “The Old Man and the Sea”

[solid parcel]

Honestly virtually anything you choose will be an improvement on philosophy books. Find something that interests you, and dig in.

[tidal geode]

i have basic knowledge about java and good skills in SQL queries now i am thinking to switch to python+sql is this the right choice?

[peak halo]

Look at job listings for jobs you might want and see what language they usually mention.

[noble dawn]

precision is key this days

because of the crowd , a straight foward resumes does better than a pile of grammar

[royal hamlet]

what concepts/questions or challenges are you guys getting in python backend interviews ?

[tidal gazelle]

Hi can anyone advice me on the differences between MEng and MSc for computer science students at university. And with personal expereince or knowledge, is any one of them more advantageous than the other etc

[maiden jasper]

Go for MEng if: You want a stable, 4-year path with guaranteed funding and want to become a high-level Software Architect or Chartered Engineer.

Go for MSc if: You want to specialize in a cutting-edge field (like Quantum Computing or AI) or if you want to change universities to upgrade your "brand name."

Common Myth: "MEng is harder." Not necessarily. The 4th year of an MEng and an MSc are usually at the same academic level (Level 7). The MSc is just more intense because you have to cram the research and thesis into 12 months, whereas the MEng often spreads it out.

[formal folio]

hey, I'm extremely confused about my current career path and need some help/guidance ( not super professional, just someone with experiecne who can tell me my options and tell me which roadmap to take )

[dim kiln]

Check out my python project

https://github.com/pythos-team/lynk

[amber locust]

This is #career-advice . please post these to #1468524576479641744

[amber locust]

What's you're current status? what are you doing atm?

[formal folio]

im currently doing a bachelor's in data science. In my mid twenties, switched careers because my previous one was unstable and didnt have much prospect/growth, so I have pretty much no work exp.
Currently I've learned some of the maths and statistics involved in ML, DSA in python ( I had java in high school but I dont remember much anymore ), and some DBMS.

in python specifically, I know DSA and postgresql. I know some pygame too.

I really don't know what my end goal should be in the first place. I don't just "want a job that pays well", I want a job that I find interesting. I want to know what my options are from here on out and after picking a goal, I want to build a roadmap leading to it.

Although I'm learning data science officially, so far I've found the programming subjects way more interesting than the ML and Data Science related ones, and would like to know if its even viable to pursue a pure programmer/dev career from this point on. They're gonna teach us web and development next.

[errant crater]

Alright..

[olive acorn]

i just started python looking for friends to join in this journey

[peak halo]

Everyone in this server is your python friend

[olive acorn]

oh thank you, just started recently.. how long have you been in the game

[peak halo]

Several years

[hollow sand]

Hi

[mortal wedge]

It's hard to answer how viable career paths are atm. The market is in a state of serious flux due to a variety of factors.

About the only advice I can give is to not stop at a bacherlors, whatever you do. Go for a masters in CS/AI/DS to be more competitive. (I think it's also reasonable/fine to have like.... a bachelors in DS and a masters in CS).

That being said, definitely go for what interests you. (This is a very rough overview that skips some nuance for brevity.) A data analyst will still write code that analyzes data, creates visualizations. Depending on support an org has they may have to do some data engineering to get the data into a usable/analyzable format. But the data work still takes center stage and you usually don't have to worry/think about things like engineering practice, optimization, scalability. Your primary goal is to derive insights from the data

An ML scientist/engineer is somewhat similar, although depending on how much lift is carried by MLOps/data engineering you may have to deal with more programmy stuff. But the analysis still takes center stage, but there may be more programming work regarding training and inference. Your primary goal is to have a ML model derive insights from the data.

With that said, there are a lot of areas/specialties in programming, like app development, web stuff, hardware integration, etc. If you enjoy programming but are not sure the DS/ML stuff is for you, it's worth dabbling in a lot of different areas to find something you truly enjoy.

[merry ledge]

my technical interviewer no showed my interview after i spent 4 hours on leetcode

[past vault]

I would advise caution on recommending a master's degree, based on the data I've seen.

[solid parcel]

What data is that?

[past vault]

https://blog.alinelerner.com/ aline lerner has done a lot of work in this area. i can get the exact post.

https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-computer-science-from-a-m-s-in-computer-science-when-it-comes-to-recruiting/

https://interviewing.io/blog/lessons-from-3000-technical-interviews

[solid parcel]

Reasonable take from her, though I'd note that A) The article is from 2013 which was a monumentally different time for the tech job market and B) There's no quantitative data to speak of, just anecdote

[next glen]

Hey

[past vault]

sorry, these two are actually not the post I'm thinking of. She is correlating it in the second with interview performance, but that was not the one I'm looking for. It was specifically about how candidates with master's degrees are seen by recruiters rather than any intrinsic quality of their own.

and the outcome was, basically, that its mixed, with many seeing them as a strong negative signal. i think her hypothesis was recruiters felt people who pursued masters degrees were people that could not get hired out of college.

[next berry]

sounds very US-centric and not relevant nowadays in the US even

[past vault]

🤷‍♀️

[solid parcel]

I'm shocked to see a strong positive signal from Coursera. That's certainly not something I'd have predicted

[past vault]

self taught engineers 💪 hehe

Robert Sedgwick has an amazing course on there.

[solid parcel]

I guess it may be a factor of it helping them develop the skills required to pass interviews, rather than being seen as a strong signal by a recruiter reviewing a CV?

Ah, yeah seems that interpretation is supported by her saying that 'Moreover, interviewees who attended top schools performed significantly worse than interviewees who had not attended top schools but HAD taken a Udacity or Coursera course'

[next berry]

isn't that the dude from the third die hard film lol

[past vault]

https://interviewing.io/blog/are-recruiters-better-than-a-coin-flip-at-judging-resumes ah! here it is

sorry for the blog post tour there.

[next berry]

@open ivy you should probably read this since you're usually complaining about recruiting

[past vault]

i love this post because it lays out in pretty stark terms the reality of the recruiting situation, which is basically: ignore previous instructions and just get a brand name on your resume

[mortal plinth]

How to force yourself to learn Python?

[solid parcel]

A) What's your reason for trying to learn it at all?
B) Grit and the ability to push through discomfort and a lack of motivation is a powerful skill
C) It really doesn't take long to get to doing some interesting, albeit small, things. You could be building out tiny programs within a day.

[mortal plinth]

I want to work freelance or write bots, well, earn money.
thank you for motivation

[fast fossil]

why does it have a seemingly AI-generated cover image?

[mortal plinth]

I meet more and more successful people and when they talk about it, I want to start too.

[past vault]

im guessing bc she set embeds to serve an ai generated cover img?

[fast fossil]

well, it just kinda reduces my willingness to even visit the page, though I did, it seems more legit than the cover image might suggest (something about books and their covers)

[solid parcel]

This is a very hard thing to do when you're starting out. We have a handful of people coming in here asking about it every day. People reach for freelancing because it seems accessible, but that same accessibility means there's a huge amount of competition.

You can make money, but realistically that's likely to take months if not years. You need to actually have skills others are willing to pay for, and that's not quick to develop.

[past vault]

she prob generated that year+ ago, before ai hate went truly mainstream. lol.

[solid parcel]

It can be a fun thing to do, and tech is a great industry to go into for a career imo. That said, if it's not something you enjoy, you don't have to force yourself - there are plenty of other ways to make good money that don't involve coding.

If you want to get started, I think CS50/CS50P both make for good starting points.

[mortal plinth]

I understand, but in what direction should I try to move?

[solid parcel]

I don't understand the question

[mortal plinth]

thank for guides

[mortal plinth]

Where should I go if not freelancing? Sorry, I'm using a translator.

[solid parcel]

If you're interested in getting into tech, your best bet is to go to uni and do a comp sci degree. How old are you?

[mortal plinth]

13

[solid parcel]

Ah, you've got ages! Honestly, just focus on school. It pays off big time when you're older. If you've got time and are interested in learning to code, you could already have a really solid grasp on it by the time you're old enough to go to university.

[mortal plinth]

Today I met a man who told me that he learned Python from books at the age of 7 and now, at 17, he earns a stable income as a freelancer.

[solid parcel]

Yeah some people do manage to make that kind of thing work, though it's unusual.

[mortal plinth]

ok, thank you for all the help and motivation you gave me

[icy pagoda]

this is just sad

recruiters should undergo their own personalized exam from past candidate data to even qualify
that might help with this a bit

[past vault]

It is almost certainly on purpose

[tidal gazelle]

Thank you for your reply. Follow up question if you don't mind:
My course is "Computer science and software engineering MEng" which is 4 years so its like a integrated masters sort of.
In this type of program, "a separate bachelor’s certificate is not typically awarded at the end of the third year; rather, the qualification is conferred as a whole at the end of the programme." (my professor)
when looking for a job could this cause problems? I have a friend in my cohort who said he knows someone who encountered issues because he had a masters but not bachelors. Hoping anyone here who knows something can give insight

Also outside of the UK too maybe not just looking for jobs in UK

[meager meteor]

hello everyone i will be entering 3rd of my computer science degree but i have average gpa with no projects or skills can anyone give me advice on what to do to get an internship, i will be doing specialization ai/ml so please suggest some tech stack too

[broken bane]

Yo! In order to become a SE, i studied about python, and i compared the run time with Cpp, it's much slower, what should i do? Switch to Cpp?

[runic moss]

nop buy bigger servers!!

shipping fast is important

[icy pagoda]

might want to redirect this to #python-discussion

[vale blade]

Hey everyone 👋

I’m looking for a coding buddy/friend who wants to grow together in programming and AI development from scrap.

Current interests:
• Coding & problem solving
• AI/ML journey
• Building projects
• Learning new tech & skills
• Staying consistent together

I’m not searching for perfect skills, just someone genuinely motivated and serious about improving day by day 🚀

We can:
• Learn together
• Share resources
• Practice coding
• Build projects
• Push each other to stay consistent

“Small progress every day becomes something huge over time.”

If you’re interested and have similar goals, feel free to DM me 🤝
“We both gonna succeed in our career together buddy”
Thank you 👍

[trim crypt]

Just share your AI development, learning and progress in #agents-and-llms if you're building an AI agent. Or at #data-science-and-ml if you're learning to build a machine learning model from scratch. Otherwise, just chat general Python in #python-discussion

[vale blade]

I am a fresher guy currently won't started yet but now going to start
But I am unable to do it alone🥲

[trim crypt]

If you're stuck, just ask in any of those channels (not here). Read #❓｜how-to-get-help for some guidance on how to ask good questions, especially when opening a help thread in #1035199133436354600

[vale blade]

Ok sir thanks for guiding I will take care of it👍

[fierce sigil]

hello just wondering what sort of levels my math skills should be at for this industry, like what should i focus on improving? thx thx

[vast shoal]

In general, you don't need very advanced math, pre-calc is basically fine. In particular subdomains you might need more, though.

Like in simulation, graphics, robotics or data science you'll likely need stuff like calc, linear algebra or stats.

[fierce sigil]

Ok thanks i didnt pay attention in school enough so i need to brush up on it again

It was all a little intimidating when I was first researching

[vast shoal]

You basically just need algebra.

variables, functions, exponentials/logarithms

[fierce sigil]

Thank you thank you

[vast shoal]

Discrete math is helpful as well

That's a bit outside what you normally study in school, but you don't need to go super deep into it

[royal hamlet]

what concepts/questions or challenges are you guys getting in python backend interviews ?

[formal folio]

i enjoy the coding part far more than the statistics and analyzing part, so far atleast. Is app/web development a viable end goal for me although my degree is focused on data science?

and yes I definitely plan to do my masters, but I would like to get a job asap and do my masters while working. I want to know what kind of jobs I can aim towards right now.

and build my skillset/portfolio accordingly

[solid parcel]

Hiya, I suspect I know the issue the person your friend knows was running into. Were they looking for jobs abroad?

To get something like an H-1B visa to the US, you need an equivalent to a US bachelor's or higher. The catch being, they primarily make that comparison based on years of education. So if, for example, you get into a Master's degree course via an alternative entry requirement such as relevant work experience, rather than having a bachelor's, then upon completion the US will still only see that as one year of higher education (plus one additional year for each 3 years of relevant work experience). You wouldn't have that same issue with a MEng.

If it's other countries you're looking at, you'll need to dig into how they actually evaluate your credentials, as it will differ from place to place.

[wintry oasis]

yo same started learning like a month ago

[olive acorn]

i think leaning towards AI is always the best career path

[queen shard]

Hii everyone

Anyone can tell me after learning python what can I learn ?

[fringe sphinx]

Its like learning a sport, you just keep building skills and knowledge and experience

Everything you learn opens up more things to learn

[pearl lodge]

assembly

[queen shard]

Yeah.. you are right but I think..

[queen shard]

What

[mortal wedge]

App/web development is still viable, yeah. You may have to spin up a little story about you really found your passion in coding during an interview. But I've found/heard that I can still solidly get interviews if I'm a STEM major and can speak to my passion in coding. I'm a biomedical engineering major who has interviewed at Sony before, for instance.

Getting a job asap in this current market, at least in the US, is rough. The problem is that newer grads, especially without a masters, are not particularly competitive. Portfolios, internships, and advanced degrees help differentiate you. (It is possible this may change as the market is currently in a state of shock/flux).

[tidal gazelle]

Thank you so much for your reply appreciate it

[merry ledge]

should i send a fourth follow up to IBM? (3rd wasnt replied to)

im getting actually angry at them at this point . Complete lack of professionalism

[vast shoal]

Rather than think about what you can learn, think about what you can and want to build. Then learn what you need to build that thing.

[queen shard]

Woah that's great advice thanks man.. 💯

[queen shard]

I'll do things what I like..

[peak halo]

Can you reiterate what it is that you're expecting a follow up for? There's context that a lot of people probably don't know or could potentially misremember.

[merry ledge]

i mostly just want confirmation that they havent forgotten about me. I havent heard anythiing about the status of my relocation benefit and background check. Oh and i dont even know what my job is! Or who i report to.

[peak halo]

Start from the beginning. Why are you in contact with IBM? Imagine you're asking someone who knows nothing about the entire situation.

[merry ledge]

i signed offer for SE1 in march

[peak halo]

What is SE1?

[merry ledge]

software engineer 1

[peak halo]

If you signed a literal offer letter that long ago, and you still haven't been onboarded, and you don't have a reliable point of contact, I would try calling HR on the phone and ask what the status of your employment is.

But I would have expected them to complete a background check before giving you an offer letter.
Unless it was explicitly stated in the letter.

[merry ledge]

i have a contact email person but he isnt very communicative

[merry ledge]

it changed to order created in the portal last week

[vast shoal]

from what?

[merry ledge]

"offered"

[formal folio]

im fine with interviews. Just need a roadmap for whatr to learn next

rn im going for css/html and flask

[mortal wedge]

Keep trying out different domains like web dev, app development, etc. this goes a bit into personal philosophy, but I think the way to go is have a basic proficiency in a lot of things and then a very strong proficiency in one area. But you need to experience a lot of those different areas first to decide what you’ll want to specialize in. Those other areas aren’t a waste of time, that is some of the basic proficiencies that will either be directly utilized in the future or you’ll be in roles where knowing enough about them makes you a strong collaborator with other devs

[still cargo]

i wanna learn about making apps in python ive finished the basics made some beginner projects what should i learn next

[vast shoal]

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[vast shoal]

^ take a look at these projects, pick one and try to build it. If you get stuck, come and ask for guidance. You might have to study new topics in the process, but it's better to be guided in your studying by practical necessity.

[runic moss]

These projects are akin to complex problem solving skills they should be used with great caution such that when a beginning sees something like this they should be aware of the consequences (what they're getting into/what not)

Also the level of detail that goes through each project progresses the environment such that the beginner struggles to learn so as to undo or redo the learning process!!

I strongly encourage beginners to think before solving a problem or even expecting an answer (why does this exist/what do I already know to solve it)

The confusion with complexity vs simplicity will always be a bottleneck if you're a beginner you wouldn't know any better.

But you will LEARN!

[neon pond]

Epicurus, do I have a chance to get a job in the future? Right now I'm making my second api(bigger than first one) and I did few small stuff as well(such as Amazon economic analysis with building small model for it and other small stuff). Right now I'm 16(soon will be 17...) And I'm scared to death that I'll die poor(since my main profession will be in marketing)... Oh, wise Epicurus, please help me._.

I'm a wunderkind, just a normal teenager who's trying coding a little bit, I just want to work on freelance during uni, I've even a small chance to get into freelance and work a little bit?._.

[next berry]

wtaf lol

[crystal lynx]

Does python coding have a bright future

[vast shoal]

!rule paid

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

Bulk account creation also sounds like it probably violates:

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 1091964947665264701 As noted already, we don't allow recruiting, paid work, or malicious projects here. Your post has been removed

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @ornate mantle.

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 856841582287257620 No spam or memes

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @dreamy bough.

[fringe sphinx]

Python is one of the most popular languages right now. And I don't think AI will diminish this; AI will supercharge Python making it easier to build more sophisticated projects, but like any tool, it needs to be wielded by people with skills and competency.

[crystal lynx]

Cuz the ai have already shown impact on the jobs and ai is developing more and more until 2030 ai is gonna develop more and more until they get resources crisis

[fringe sphinx]

"Predictions are tough, especially about the future"

People are making bold claims about what AI will do and is doing. I think we're in a period where it's unclear what software engineering will look like in 5-10 years, but I don't see an end to 'engineering'

[next berry]

What credentials do you have to make such a claim?

[near ocean]

You dont need credentials to see AI affecting jobs

Whether its actually AI doing better work or people placing their bets on it working or even just wishful thinking, devs have been fired for it

[vast shoal]

But if it's only wishful thinking, there's a limit to how far it can go in the future

[fiery jay]

kinda on topic for this chat, how tf are y'all keeping up with people vibe coders? Like sanity-wise

I'm seeing PRs up but they have genuinely no concept what those PRs do other than "I asked Chat[GPT] to do [some feature or rewrite], so it should be that". But the same person sent in 4-5 PRs where the containers just weren't configured correctly. Someone else completely converted everything between languages, and albeit has a working docker compose but they're going to probably fuck up my fork because they're deprecating the base branch after 2 days. I don't feel like I belong in Engineering if everything is a slot machine with bs mechanics like this wtf

[vast shoal]

What @crystal lynx said is implying the AI development is a real, solid and lasting productivity evolution that will reduce job opportunities permanently

[half coral]

Okay so who's giving away internships and jobs here

[vast shoal]

Not really something I'm personally impacted by

Seems like a problem mainly affecting OSS maintainers

[near ocean]

I am, i kinda quiet quit the code review process if its obvious gpt code

[fiery jay]

I can't even get a PR in without the vibe coders replacing everything and making our repo impossible to add to for anybody that's not also vibe coding. And I'm not really getting paid for my work on this, so I'm on the verge of just quitting the whole entire project

[near ocean]

Is it only wishful thinking tho? And what do we do about the devs who are laid off because of it, im not sure its any consolation to them

[vast shoal]

I was mainly addressing the issue of whether @crystal lynx needed qualifications or not. I think you do need some if you're gonna make claims about where AI development is headed.

[near ocean]

There are 2 statements in that post that were dismissed together, what about "ai have already shown pact on the jobs"

[vast shoal]

You don't need credentials to talk about what's already fact today

[fiery jay]

people are generally so god damn delusional with AI too

[vast shoal]

And it is fact that people have been laid off from some companies where the leadership reference AI as the reason

[fiery jay]

Sorry I crashed out once and probably shouldn't again.. I just can't work with people that know literally nothing but keep acting like they know 6x more than they do because they used a crutch (GPT) to do their work for them in 30 seconds and they have no idea if it's even right, good, or maintainable..

[vast shoal]

Though it's also been debated whether AI has been used as a scapegoat in some of those cases to obscure more conventional economic reasons

[near ocean]

Looking at the trajectory of LLMs in general why wouldnt you assume it would keep going at that rate? Why do you need credentials to observe a pattern

Its barely a claim at this point, its more like accepting the current situation

[vast shoal]

For the same reason extrapolation in any context is unreliable

Just because the markets have been going up for the past five years doesn't mean they will keep going up indefinitely

Performance could very well plataeu for some theoretical reason you have no way of knowing about unless you're an expert. Or you might not be able to know even if you are.

[near ocean]

A lot of things could happen, why do you need credentials to suggest things will keep going the way they currently are

[vast shoal]

I'm leaning more towards the conclusion that anyone making long-term predictions is likely to be wrong, or at best right by accident.

Even people with credentials can't reliably predict the future.

[peak halo]

No one. You can't ask for jobs here.

[near ocean]

Ofc not, but we dont reach for credentials every time someone says "ai will slow down"

[peak halo]

If someone does that more than once, I'd just ban them from the project. You don't owe them anything.

[vast shoal]

Personally, I generally respond to people concerned about AI taking all the jobs that it's not reasonable to make life decisions based on vague fears about what AI might be like in 2030-40, because nobody can know. It's totally valid to be concerned just based on what the job market looks like right now, cause it certainly is rough right now. But nobody knows either way whether AI will take all jobs, turn out to have no measurable impact on job opportunities in the long run, or create more jobs than before. So if you want to avoid getting into programming now because you think you know the answer to that question, I think that's irrational.

[fiery jay]

I just flat out quit the project since they are admin of the repo. Turns out the platform we're using (codeberg) is also having some issues deleting repos and largely can't make anything work either so w/e they pissed me off anyways saying "you shouldn't be getting this mad. It's just code, it's not that serious" 🙄

[peak halo]

It's normal to be annoyed/mad if your efforts are being wasted.

[fiery jay]

Yeah, I think good teams generally can help you grow through something like this given my past experience, but I think if the team largely doesn't want "people like you" around, then it makes more sense to try to find another team or just quit - especially during that low-or-no pay phase

[near ocean]

AI doesnt need to take all the jobs though, right now it just needs to take all the junior jobs
What are people finishing up or are mid degree supposed to do if they cant find junior jobs? People dont suddenly turn into senior devs
I think its perfectly reasonable to be concerned about putting money and time in for a 3-4 year commitment if things are shaky for juniors

Even if AI dies down completely in 4-5 years, people finishing their degrees now or next year might be out of a tech job until then and then you gotta explain career gaps, why you didnt make it back then, this and that

[atomic hollow]

i agree

While the future is unpredictable, the current reality is that many developers have been displaced due to the undeniable rise of AI.

[open ivy]

Yes.

Humans evolved to recognize "speaks in your language" as "another human". And "knows a lot of stuff" as "wise and intelligence".

AI is a tool that is specialized in speaking human languages and has a huge knowledge base. That's what it is built to do. But it misses the other, subtle, aspects of being human.

Combine that with humans tendency to hype almost anything (NFTs etc) and you have a recipe for delusional grandeur.

Also, "vibe coding" only works well if you really specify the details and tightly constrain the AI. By that point you basically are coding, as in describing the "what" and "how" precisely.

[open ivy]

This is a good point. Even if AI is a modest boost, as it seems to be, people can fire devs over it and it can absolutely clog up the job app process with high-volume slop that is hard to quickly detect.

So it makes jobs harder to get without replacing everyone.

[half coral]

ik im joking

[peak halo]

You don't need to pretend you're joking. It's okay--you know the rule now and will follow it.

[half coral]

mmhm

[open ivy]

The next starving artist? Code is an amazing art form as generative art. Perlin noise, traction diffusion, Mandelbrot set, Conway's game of life, etc. The beauty of art that comes from simple algorithms instead of gigantic black boxes.

I am encountering more and more people who are unhoused and maintaining an artistic passion of some sort. After all, if you live in one of the safest places to meet homeless people on Earth, you end up meeting quite a few.

[fringe sphinx]

There's two different parts of this discussion... we know job market sucks, but attributing causality solely or primarily to AI is an open debate.

Not saying it's not also a factor, but I believe this is an extension of the post Covid and pre AI craze job market chaos. We've had a series of economic crises, a shift of tech budgets to infrastructure to keep up with the competition, etc. I don't agree with argument that entry tech jobs are permanently cooked. I remember a similar period in early 90s... big tech was imploding and the internet boom wasn't a thing

Take this data with a grain of salt, but software engineering job postings are actually up over past year: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE

[near ocean]

entry level software jobs might not stay permanently cooked but they wont bounce back anywhere near 2022 levels anytime soon or maybe ever

[fringe sphinx]

2022 levels are not a very good baseline for anything

That also was a one time unusual event. Post covid ridiculous hiring.

[near ocean]

it was the peak in that graph

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, I'm saying that a one time maxima is just that

[near ocean]

that site doesnt have data going back enough
for 40% of the period it covers job listings were at today's level or lower

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, that's why my comment was only that the past year has shown an increase in this measurement

I ignore the peak, since it has no historical context

[near ocean]

indeed posts havent been at today's level for 2.5 years thats wild

i dont think immediately going for credentialism is valid critique when someone brings up that AI might eat up jobs at the current rate or higher

what are anyone's credentials, we're just dudes and dudettes on the internet

[fringe sphinx]

? What credentialism in this discussion? I'm just pointing out that there's some positive over the past year, despite negative press

I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right, I thought I was careful to say this is just my opinion.

My point about 90's was that there's been dire times in industry before. Lots of tech crashes. I'm not convinced AI is a net negative for software engineering as a profession: I think if it weren't for the successive economic crises, we'd be seeing rapid tech hiring

[surreal panther]

Hi guys, im thinking about studying software engineering in uni, but where I live (jordan) the salaries are just ass tbh, about 10k a year or so, so im wondering if theres a chance or a way that I could work online for ppl in other countries in a stable job with a stable salary, I've seen a 70k per year average salary for American software engineers at entry level, so idk if this concept is even out there

[stoic pelican]

hey can i get to know how to dm on linkedIn

[peak halo]

I think if you're not already "connected" with them, you have to pay to DM them.

[mortal wedge]

Or you get LinkedIn premium.

That being said, when you try to connect there is also a message you can type in that can serve as your cold dm I think

[open ivy]

Linkedin is mainly useful as a Rolodex to store contacts who you met outside of the platform. To actually meet new people, not so much. The best platform to meet new people is a train platform. As in actually going to places in person.

[next berry]

some work to get to this take lol

[solid parcel]

Hard disagree. Yes in person meetups can be useful, but LinkedIn is a phenomenal resource for connecting with people. I wouldn't underrate it.

I've had multiple conversations with some very well known names, merely by sending a message.

[open ivy]

Do you need the premium to do so or can the free version work OK for this?

Even with premium, the vast majority of LinkedIn messages I sent were ignored. I had much better luck on Itch.io (with a filter to only send messages to adults) because I could talk about thier game.

Makes me wonder what you are doing correctly that I am doing wrong?

[solid parcel]

It depends. Some people have their account set up so you can send a free message without needing Premium.

For others, yes you'd either have to have premium, have them accept your connection request, or first build up a rapport in the comment section of their posts.

[open ivy]

"Comment section" may be a good way to talk about thier projects, as they will be talking about thier projects in thier posts.

[solid parcel]

If I'm messaging someone, it's pretty much always with an explicit ask that they can engage with without taking much of their time.

Particularly if people are well-know, they tend to get a high volume of messages, many of which want something from them. You've got to make it easy for them to engage.

For example a couple of weeks back I reached out to one of the co-creators of the tool I'm building on top of for my dissertation. I was curious to understand if their org had considered a similar approach.

From that short conversation, I found out that
A) Yes, they had
B) He thinks the idea would be extremely useful
C) The only reason they haven't pursued it is because they've had other priorities and limited engineering capacity

[open ivy]

This sounds like a solid strategy.

[solid parcel]

What else would you be talking about? If you're reaching out cold just to talk about your work, they'd have very little reason to engage with that

[open ivy]

How did you sneak in a discussion about the tool you are building on top of your dissertation? Because getting others to listen to your work as you say (and in my experience) is difficult.

[solid parcel]

It wasn't really a matter of sneaking. He had his account set to allow people to send an initial message.

I said 'Hi XXXX, I'd love to connect 🙂 I've been building on top of BloodHound for my Master's, extending your graph approach to pre-deployment to check if planned IaC changes would introduce priv esc.'

He pinged a message back saying he was more than happy to connect, and accepted my request.

Then I asked if they've explored extending BloodHound to support pre-deployment analysis, and outlined in very brief terms the approach I've had success with, saying I'd be keen to hear his thoughts on the direction.

So the ask is directly related to his work, potentially valuable to him, and easy for him to engage with. If you're genuinely interested in someone's perspective, particularly when it comes to their area of expertise, they're often more than willing to give you a few minutes. You've just got to show them why it's worth them engaging at all, and make it easy for them to do so.

[open ivy]

Honestly these posts should put in some sort of "tips and tricks" archive. Because they give specific examples of successful connections. Also I am curious if @next berry is using a similar strategy or if they have their own secret sauce instead. Anyone who reaches social abundance in the modern world is doing better than average.

Cold reach outs are hard. Humans naturally bond through shared connections, which is why we have so many bars, meetups, etc. To bond through a cold reach out is considerably harder. So sucess doing so is noteworthy.

[mortal wedge]

I’ve gotten value from LinkedIn premium, but it’s probably not the same value others are getting.

Premium exposes post specific analytics to help me understand the market better. I’m also not going to invest too much time/emotion for a role thousands have applied for.

[open ivy]

I just don't know if the money is better spent on train tickets to go to events (free events are decently good in my area)? It is an abstract thing that is hard to quantify the value of.

[solid parcel]

If you want to understand what helps, look up the key elements of persuasion (with the caveat that there's contention around a fair few of the findings, so take them with a grain of salt. They're directionally useful, nonetheless).

[near ocean]

£30/month worth of value? 💀

[solid parcel]

Jeeez, I could have sworn it was something like £12 a month last time I checked

[mortal wedge]

I am certainly not going to claim it's going to offer a lot of value to everyone. But for me I only have so much time/effort and I wanted my decisions to be data-driven. Honestly for my purposes, the free trial was/is probably enough, lol ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[open ivy]

Persuasion is a strange thing because it combines massive skill differences and lots of "contention".

When you have deeply set, contradictory beliefs usually it is because things are just random. Go to any casino and you see a menergie of rituals and lucky charms and "lucky momentum". None of it works.

With persuasion, you see a similar set of superstitions. However, the people who are good at it are actually good at it.

[scarlet remnant]

Heyy guys

[near ocean]

if you pay annually

[scarlet remnant]

am i allowed to ask for collab for a research paper, im a med student

[mortal wedge]

I think using the free trial to understand the analytics of postings in your industry provides a lot of value

[scarlet remnant]

its about “Graph-Theoretical and Spatial Systems Biology Approaches in Neuroscience Transcriptomics”

[solid parcel]

It's certainly not just a matter of superstition; there's a decent evidence base out there, the strength of support for different persuasion principles just differs. Social proof, for example, is one of the best evidenced and most widely reproduced across different studies.

[mortal wedge]

Huh. That's sort of in my field, but all my time/energy is going towards getting employed so not really available/open to a collab

That sounds really interesting though. Hope it goes well

[scarlet remnant]

hmmm no probs but can i contact you later for future collabs if thats okay wit u?

[mortal wedge]

I can't promise future availability, but sure, I wouldn't mind hearing about something in the future. I have around 4 years of career neuroscience, wouldn't mind that knowledge actually going towards something 😂

[scarlet remnant]

lmaoo sure, ill lyk

[open ivy]

Wouldn't a collab make a good portfolio project? Although if you already have projects going on maybe not a good idea to add another one.

Between portfolio projects, building relationships with humans, traditional job applications, and market research, looking for a job can make you very busy very quickly...

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 1505364459638751343 We don't allow recruiting, paid services, or anything commercial on this server. Your post has been removed

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @tame tusk.

[mortal wedge]

Job hunting is the most cursed optimization problem. You have only so much time/energy/money and you have to make the most of what you have available.

I think what a lot of people are doing is like…. Trying a bit of everything with more focus on what is giving you the most returns.

To break it down here, I have algorithmic medtech work that has cleared regulatory bodies. So if someone has the technical/industry depth to appreciate that, then I’m good enough on the provable project front.

My current paradigm is to aggressively increase my technical breadth and depth while following up on job postings that have the highest rate of returns.

[open ivy]

"aggressively increase my technical breadth and depth" how so?

Also, what have been the most successful way you made new human contacts in the last few months or so?

[fringe sphinx]

How could one possibly evaluate human contacts as successful or un?

'Met a person, didn't die, success!'

(I'm not teasing, just was the idea that came to mind)

[open ivy]

I find it easier to read social vibe than to figure out what is going wrong or right.

Do they maintain talkatively? Do they ask for your contact? Are they willing to listen or just pretending to be?

So at least you get a sense of how effective your strategy is, even though actually getting to a more effective strategy is hard.

[mortal wedge]

I’m taking a masters course that lets me go at my own (accelerated) pace as well as going to events like pycon to stay up to date with industry advancements as well as discuss problems with other smart people who have been working on the same problems 🙂

[wanton birch]

Should one leave higher level degrees than what the job advert asked for when applying for roles?

Say the job specified undergrad and you have masters and a PhD. Is it advisable to at the very least drop the PhD from the resume?

[peak halo]

No. The highest degree that you list is presumed to be the highest one that you have, and you need to be transparent about that

[wanton birch]

That sucks

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think very transactionally about conversations. I think it's fruitless to try to guess at what people think, but it is healthy to be genuinely interested in learning from everyone you meet

[open ivy]

That sounds good. I wouldn't abandon personal projects completly, after all no one knows what you are interested in doing better than you do.

But you are still doing better than most of use by combining up-skilling with reaching out to people (in courses and in PyCon). That seems solid.

[fringe sphinx]

If I had to measure success at human interactions, it'd be the ratio of words they spoke vs words I spoke

[open ivy]

I don't think trasnactionally either. I think in terms of damage control. "Why did they stop talking, pull out thier phone, and seem to not want to engage me anymore". Damage control.

[wanton birch]

I recently attended an industry event and was shocked to see how some of these startup folks behaved

There were only about 10 startups. Relatively small event. Two of them, I had to keep asking questions after questions and they either nodded or answered in one word.

[open ivy]

This metric works well when taken with a grain of salt as all metrics should be. Makerspaces, gamedev meetups, etc I had best luck with. Trouble is most average people in average places throw it back onto me and expect me to do most talking or expect both of us to be quiet. When 20 minutes of silence passes it feels very unnatural to me.

[open ivy]

Yes that happens to me way too much. People talking too little is a MUCH more common problem I face than talking too much. Makerspaces bring it much closer to a healthy balance. However, they (thankfully) rarely go into "talk too much" territory.

In my interactions. This depends HEAVILY on how people interact with others.

[wanton birch]

What sort of makerspace do you find devs at?

[open ivy]

Any space with a tech "section". You also find artists etc. But you do find devs. Hardware more common than software, as providing circuit components and soldering irons for "pay what you can" prices is a big draw of these spaces.

[wanton birch]

I know a local make space but it seemed mostly for printing, milling, some hardware and woodwork type of stuff

They have good tools for machining, fabrication, printing etc

[open ivy]

Look for a place to plug in a laptop and start working. At the very least, even if you go on an "off" day, you have a change of pace for your office.

And 3D printer and hardware people generally know enough tech that they can understand you at a high level.

[wanton birch]

True

Maybe I should start wearing shirts and jackets with “Please talk to me if you are a dev” or similar

Although I do wonder at times if any of it makes sense if you are not young

[mortal wedge]

In my experience they’re gonna find out anyway. I applied to a lower level IT role and they searched me on LI and rejected me for being overqualified

[sand patio]

there's a lot of "builder" focused third spaces in my area

if you pull up to one of those you'll probably find a lot of developers

[mortal wedge]

@sour tartan just gave a good talk related to that!

[sand patio]

but they're more so startup people ime than like...super nerdy developers

[wanton birch]

Are you even from Canada!?

[sand patio]

nah, U.S., but i don't see why you couldn't look for similar things in canada

[open ivy]

Yes it does.

It takes work and doesn't have the emotional energy and enthusiasm of the grade K-16 school days. But it is still worth it. Social interactions are essential for so many purposes. Getting jobs is one of them (thus this isn't off topic). And when you see people develop physical symptoms from loneliness, then you definitely go for human interaction even though it isn't "easy" the way it was back before age 25.

[wanton birch]

Problem is that they never share why they ghosted you, rejected you or anything like that. So the system feels awfully open loop and hard to tune for improvement

[mortal wedge]

Thanks.

I think everyone has different strengths/weaknesses and every persons situation/industry is different. I’m much better at learning than being social and I’m also in a niche industry. So my current hypothesis is that this is the optimal strategy for me rn.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that’s why I mentioned it’s a cursed optimization problem. In this case I had an inside contact who let me know.

[wanton birch]

I know what you mean. I am relatively new to where I live and finding people is hard. The largest group I found is tech related but sadly everyone acts very awkward when we meet once a month. There’s always this awkward distance between everyone. Even people who have been meeting up for decades!

[wanton birch]

Where are you based?

[mortal wedge]

West coast US, in a medtech hub

[open ivy]

This is a BIG issue. This is why I don't recommend cold apps as a staple.

HOWEVER, this forum provides enough people who had success with cold applications to give you a good "starting point" with resume help and other tips. However, once you get that initial start you may still get stuck. So it's not something to burn a ton of energy on but still worth a try.

[wanton birch]

Survivor bias

Outside the obvious generic advice that can be found anywhere.

[open ivy]

Still, when someone has success after just 24 cold apps it's worth listening to them. I failed after 800 so don't do what I did.

[wanton birch]

The good thing we can find in places like this is getting a sense for things from actual working professionals when you are preparing for an interview or an interaction or researching.

[wanton birch]

True. Especially if they can then tell you to do something differently which makes you go “oh! I was doing it wrong “

[mortal wedge]

It’s why I’ve tried to really understand the market and factors the best I can. Worst case scenario is that you had a fixable issue that has caused you to fail for a long time and you didn’t even know, due to the lack of immediate and clear feedback

[wanton birch]

The benefit I got from places like this is honestly just talking to some real human who are from the industry where they don’t feel pressured to act. Networking events feel weird for that.

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Go hardcore and fix them ASAP

Reach out to as many sources as possible and try things out.

[open ivy]

One tech "networking event" talked endlessly about topics such as restaurant food. In a city with expensive but amazing dining facilities, it's a great place to hang out in if you love cooking. But to talk about tech not so much.

However, going into an event where you bring your own tech project is another story. Makerspaces are good. What else is there? Startup meetups? They seem OK, trouble is there isn't enough tech prowess (when I was trying to explain, very broadly, why generative non-AI art has an appeal they got so confused).

[open ivy]

Yes. This is a moderate problem in social interactions. And a HUGE problem with cold apps.

[mortal wedge]

One thing I’m thinking about and still trying to decide is if I’ll keep applying after I get an offer. I keep reading horror stories about people turning down offers and stopping applying after they e got a start date, then the company somehow cancels it.

[open ivy]

Definitely keep networking, personal projects and/or other self-improvement, etc all going. Even on a job, squeeze a little time in during the commute or in evenings etc.

[wanton birch]

What kind of success rate do you guys have? As in even getting the first screening call phone interviews. How many good apps does that take?

[open ivy]

To add to that: What is the tradeoff between quality and quantity?

[solid parcel]

Honestly most of the time if I'm shifting roles, it's because I've had inbound interest from a recruiter on LinkedIn, so very high.

Looking more broadly, going off both publicly available data and anecdote from conversations with engineers, about a 3-5% conversion rate from application to interview seems about average.

[wanton birch]

By good applications I mean those where you are custom fitting every thing about your application to be a perfect fit with that position. Writing letters, trying to find related people on LinkedIn and sending them messages or similar

[solid parcel]

Generally speaking, I don't think looking to hyper-optimise every single application is efficient. Most of the time I think that falls into overinvesting to achieve a local maximum.

[mortal wedge]

I can respond to this but my experience may not be directly applicable. I have a fairly high conversion rate, but I’m also applying to far fewer roles than most people. I used to track which types of roles had the best conversion rates and have dropped ones with poor conversion rates entirely.

Rough guess is like…. 10-20% but I’m pretty specialized

[wanton birch]

It is not efficient but at some point, you get desparate enough to do that and then sacrifice your firstborn on night of the full moon just to get a call back

[mortal wedge]

I mean I’m an atheist and I’ve tried praying, lol. Not leaving any method off the table 😄

[wanton birch]

My highest running average was 0.5%

[solid parcel]

Over what time frame and number of applications are we talking? The market is rough at the moment, but 0.5% is low enough to make me wonder if there's either an issue with your CV, or some other factor causing you to be filtered out early (and perhaps even automatically).

[open ivy]

How do you know what the conversion rate was? And was this pre-AI-flood?

[wanton birch]

That was about 12 months where I kept track. Then I gave up counting or keeping track of any of it when I crossed around ~650! It fried my brain and stomped out any confidence to be honest. That is mostly from last year. The year before that I spent doing trial runs of different versions of resumes, cover letters etc based on various people trying to help me out.

[open ivy]

"It fried my brain and stomped out any confidence to be honest."

It sapped my energy for applying to more jobs. Thankfully it did not sap my general energy levels (for other things), as I treated it like a chore to do each day.

[wanton birch]

Did you have a job during?

[open ivy]

No. If you still had energy for your job, then you were doing things correctly.

[solid parcel]

I'm a fan of having a short summary at the top of my CV.

Oneliner covering YoE, industries and roles, and then the 3 most pertinent bulletpoints for whatever role I'm applying to.

Easy to swap in the most compelling ones for any given application, without spending time agonising over altering my CV. Just maximises the odds of the recruiter seeing the things that make them want to read on.

[wanton birch]

I couldn't find any relevant job for about 2 years. Finally found hourly gigs at local college to teach.

[mortal wedge]

Post AI-Flood and through lite tracking of apps. I’ve stopped tracking apps too closely, because it depressed me, that’s why I gave 10-20% instead of a more precise number

[solid parcel]

Ah, I'm close to London, so happily there's no shortage of roles to apply for

[wanton birch]

oh no! There were endless roles to apply for. I couldn't find anyone who would call me back even just to screen

[mortal wedge]

@wanton birch I’m so sorry. I have also been unemployed for around a year and a half. Financial stress aside, it does something nasty to your sense of self confidence and self worth.

Having a strong support network is vital, as well as taking needed breaks. Job hunting in this market is a marathon, not a sprint.

[open ivy]

That is good. When you are 10x better than us you aren't just "lucky".

[wanton birch]

Thanks. Sorry to hear you had to endure it too. I am lucky that my wife has been god-like supporting this whole time. I got to keep trying because of that support. I've decided to take some time off from applying but will resume maybe in 6-8 months time. Still doing some bbackground prep work toward my resume and upskilling in general though.

[open ivy]

Makerspaces are vital for low-income people. I met three homeless people there so far. They don't feel like they are worthless in such spaces.

[wanton birch]

Are makerspaces free where you live?

[open ivy]

If you have no way to pay, yes. They generally allow destitute people and in fact have an overabundance of them.

[mortal wedge]

This is primarily what I’ve been doing as well. I’ll tailor the summary mostly, anything else waits until closer to the role

[solid parcel]

If all goes to plan, my goal is to sit tight in my current role for the next couple of years, and then hop to Google. Fairly stable industry and my team has plenty of work to be getting on with, so hopefully nothing disrupts that!

[mortal wedge]

A lot of people are “job hugging” right now until the market stabilizes. That sounds like a pretty sane strategy. I hope it works out and you get into Google!

[mortal wedge]

Support of people who love me and think I have value are why I’m continuing, too 🙂

[gritty vapor]

@coarse swift hurry the fuck up

ttheres gonna be big fucking problems if u dont release that update soon @coarse swift

[peak halo]

<@&831776746206265384> please investigate message from 955588471521681429

[still condor]

!ban 955588471521681429 Joined the server just to ping someone

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @gritty vapor permanently.

[runic moss]

wait you mean
their words / your words ? or vice versa?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. 1:1 is good. 2:1 is, arguably, better. As a wise man said: everybody you meet knows something you don't.

[runic moss]

so you'd advice ppl to talk less and listen more?

[fringe sphinx]

Listen more, for sure.

[runic moss]

what if they're saying mundane things:(

and you happen to know about it better then them and they're above in herierachy than you?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask better questions?

Practice Socratic method

[runic moss]

what if they're the ones asking me questions tho 😄 then theres nothing much to learn ig?

[fringe sphinx]

Can you not ask clarifying questions?

If you're talking about conversations in a professional (engineering) setting: asking good questions is more impressive than knowing the answers

[runic moss]

good question -> things they find interesting?

bad question -> things you're interested in and perhaps they don't know the answer 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Depends what we're talking about, if we're talking about a technical discussion about a feature? Or a discussion about requirements? Or a conversation at lunch?

[runic moss]

do you talk to non technical ppl who are above in herierchy than you?

[vast shoal]

!rule job

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

This is not a job board.

[tame tusk]

@vast shoal oh sorry

[vast shoal]

No worries

Now you know

[tame tusk]

@vast shoal yeah now i understand. where can I post such?

[vast shoal]

Please remove your message from other channels as well

You can't post it anywhere in this server

[vast shoal]

Upwork or Fiverr are the big freelancing platforms, I think.

[heavy bolt]

hey as anyone made a production ready website i want to learn how can i make production ready website

[vast shoal]

https://www.theodinproject.com/ This is a good resource for learning web development from the ground up.

[heavy bolt]

i mean i do know web development i wanted to stress test and regression test on my website im making it official so i wanted it to go through few test before making it public ! @vast shoal

i was going through videos "how to make production level website and its all just how to write fancy code "

[vast shoal]

You could go through this course and learn how to deploy your application on the cloud: https://learntocloud.guide/

[heavy bolt]

i have it deployed on cloudfare

[vast shoal]

What specifically are you worried about? Performance? Security?

[heavy bolt]

the course is nice tho thanks very much

[heavy bolt]

yes performance and security both

[vast shoal]

I think part 6 of this course is pretty relevant to production deployment

[heavy bolt]

cool ill go through it thanks man

ill have to do all 5 😭

[vast shoal]

It's all very useful knowledge, so I don't think it's a bad idea.

[heavy bolt]

cool

[rapid holly]

y'all is it more difficult to work with a company as compared to working on a solo project on your own?

like ik difficult is subjective, just curious about what most ppl think here 🙂

[vast shoal]

It depends on the project.

A solo project can be very difficult if it's large and complex, since you need to do everything yourself. But a solo project can also be really simple and easy.

Working professionally in a team on a commercial project means you almost always work on big and complex projects, but you don't need to know and understand everything yourself, you can ask for help and get support.

It also depends on which role you have. As a junior dev, you're not expected to know much from the start and you get to tackle relatively easy tasks.

If you're a senior or architect, you get harder or more high-level tasks. But at that point you're better at your job, so it's not necessarily subjectively more challenging.

[rapid holly]

i understand it can be very difficult if it's large and complex... but do you believe that adding people to it in the starting can add more complexity?

[vast shoal]

Yes, of course. More people is an amplifier. If it's done well and the people you add are competent and good collaborators, things get significantly easier. But if it's not organized well or the people are incompetent, it gets much harder.

[rapid holly]

Especially if you don't have any experience in hiring people, or what would you look for in a volunteer?

I believe it's a skill to know if someone is competent and good collaborator?
(also i'm finding a hard time to believe that this can be done just by looking at their past work!)

[vast shoal]

I think it's pretty much only experience that can teach you that.

You have to work with a lot of people to get a sense for what makes a good colleague.

[rapid holly]

valid

[mortal wedge]

There are some coworkers that make it godawful and other coworkers that make it easier.

It really depends on who you're working with.

But in my experience as a senior dev, it's not a lack of experience that makes you difficult to work with, it's the behavioral stuff.

If you don't know as much, I'll give you simpler taks and coach you to level you up. But if you pretend to know more than you do and consistently screw up and just add more work to my pile.... it will infuriate me

[rapid holly]

damn u gonna level me up 🥺

[mortal wedge]

A good senior will level up juniors, yeah

[rapid holly]

thats so sweet of you haha!!

[rapid holly]

what will you do if you get infuriated tho?

[mortal wedge]

Depends on the organization. At the very least, will try to work with you less and if candidly asked by a supervisor or whomever what I think of you and your contributions it will be a negative response.

[rapid holly]

WHY DOES IT MAKE IT SOUND LIKE UR TALKING TO ME 😭 😭 im sorry

[vast shoal]

Working with inexperienced juniors with good attitudes makes the job more satisfying, rather. It's nice to see people grow.

[mortal wedge]

Sorry! I meant the.... whateer is the opposite of the royal we. The..... peasant you? O_O

[rapid holly]

lmaooo!!

[vast shoal]

Now you're calling them a peasant, smh

[mortal wedge]

I'm tryin'

[rapid holly]

i can read 💀

at least they'll level me up

[solid parcel]

The amount of prep required is disgusting, haha. Also, take a guess at the difference in TC for L5, between the US and the UK...

[solid parcel]

Ay, I recommend this pathway a lot, too. Great little onramp imo.

[next berry]

the constant self-insertion into these claims is really unhealthy

there's entire businesses who start, live and die from cold outreach. anecdotally, ive had some of the best relationships online stem from a random cold DM on linkedin or similar.

over analyzing these things in such a neurotic manner will be unlikely to yield you results in any way. if you want meaningful connection, try different things, iterate on what works for you.

please stop pretending that the rest of us have a "secret sauce" given that we've spent years working hard at this, and it's pretty rude to belittle our own efforts this way

[stoic pelican]

i am fed up on linkedIn some person gave me fake hopes to connect with me and then ghosted me i dont even know what to do

[night pelican]

Hi, everyone, I am very interested in Python. What do you want to learn from me about Python?

[hearty island]

blud happens all the time

[hearty island]

don't take it personally kek

[stoic pelican]

my moral is down now it feels like i got played on

[round patrol]

Hi guys!
I'm currently building a B2B marketing SaaS using Python, Streamlit, and Supabase that scans ad accounts, calculates wasted budget, ROI etc, and provides AI insights. I'm getting ready for launch soon, but I'm hitting a wall with the payment infrastructure and legal setup.
My main issue is that I'm based in Hungary, and I've been warned away from using standard Stripe by itself because Hungarian law requires real-time invoicing synced directly to the NAV, and standard Stripe receipts don't comply without complex third-party billing APIs. On top of that, I really want to avoid massive global tax, VAT, and compliance headaches across different countries while keeping the Hungarian accounting as simple as possible.
Given this situation, would it be better to go with a standard payment gateway combined with a Hungarian invoicing API, or should I use a Merchant of Record like Lemon Squeezy or Paddle?

[next berry]

this doesn't particularly sound like career advice but the advice i would give to a portco is to go with paddle

although if your customers are strictly huge enterprises, having paddle on invoices may get flagged but shouldn't be an issue

[round patrol]

My main target right now is boutique and mid-sized marketing agencies, so Paddle should fit perfectly for the start. I'm actually structuring the SaaS with a three-tier model using a free plan, a pro subscription, and an enterprise option. For the pro tier, Paddle's standard checkout handles the volume flawlessly. But for the enterprise tier, where agencies might want custom invoicing, contract terms, or direct wire transfers, I'm curious how your portfolio companies usually handle that. Do they still route those large enterprise contracts through Paddle's manual invoicing system, or do they completely separate the enterprise billing stack from the self-serve checkout?

[agile sedge]

Hey everyone, how’s it going? I’m new to the community and I’m from Brazil 🇧🇷

I’m getting into the data field and wanted to connect more with people who already work in the area or have more experience with it. Any advice on how to make the most out of this community?

[round patrol]

you want to be a data analyst or an architect?

[peak halo]

What is a data architect?

[sudden slate]

Hi guys I am wanting to get into electronic engineering (Currently in college but will choose electronic engineering in uni) I was learning python beforehand so I can get an idea of it and improve my chances (just a hunch) getting into internships and scholarships.. I made some decent projects and was trying to make a widget app but then haflway through I realised it was not related to electronic engineering.. I searched up for any projects that I could make but didn't get any.. Is there any advices on what projects I should be chasing.. Mainly I am looking to work on robotics area but I haven't learnt any ML or RL as I just want to solidify my present skills (I would classify myself as being average intermediate)

[peak halo]

You need to learn the fundamentals of python before you start doing RL, so it doesn't matter if your first several projects aren't about that. The important thing is that you learn from doing them

[sudden slate]

I have finished tutorials but I need some projects ideas that I can work on so that I can solidify those.. also something that is closer to electronic engineering

[next berry]

this would require an answer too in-depth for this channel and i usually do this stuff on expert calls

[round patrol]

I refer to people building data pipelines and handling databases

[peak halo]

"data engineer" is the term I usually hear for this, but job titles in tech are often cosmetic and uninformative.

[round patrol]

Yea youre right i hear both but engineer is more common

[round patrol]

We can go dms if you've got the time

[charred temple]

I want an advice concerning co-op, Internships for other countries. I keep hearing that I need to learn how to make agentic workflows to be hired, while I would say I am still in the learning stage, like right now, I am focusing on learning Linux (Terminal and the OS underneath) while also practicing my Python and C skills, I just need reassurance that I'm not doing something wrong and that I still have a change getting hired

[peak halo]

If you want to develop agentic pipelines, I do not think learning C is a good use of your time.

[charred temple]

I dont want to, I just keep hearing that it's the way to get hired

Its not like its not on my list for future projects, but I feel rushed to do that first

[peak halo]

I don't think agentic systems are going away any time soon, but I think the hype will eventually die down. I don't think you should feel pressured to learn about it

And companies shouldn't really have juniors writing non-deterministic software. That opens them up to a lot of risk.

[charred temple]

what do you mean by non-deterministic

[peak halo]

That there's unpredictability. LLMs are the brains of agentic systems, and they're not guaranteed to do an exact thing in response to a given input.
You don't want the LLM to decide that the agent is going to wipe an entire database without guardrails.

[charred temple]

cause I am genuinely having fun doing what I do (not like I wont have fun making pipelines and agentic workflows), but I have these projects in mind and I wanna hone my skills to do them

[peak halo]

Then do it. There's way more to software development than agentic pipelines.

[merry ledge]

im not longer scared of AI based on what ive seen out of my claude recently

[peak halo]

You should still be scared

But maybe for different reasons 😊

[merry ledge]

why should I be scared

[charred temple]

Why?

[peak halo]

Because I don't think society will integrate AI and automation into our lives in a way that benefits people in general.

[charred temple]

Yeah, I love automation + doing deep down projects like an interpreter or an ENTIRE OS

[merry ledge]

what will be not beneficial about it

[peak halo]

We won't focus our application of AI and autonomy towards undesirable labor and we won't implement universal basic income.

[merry ledge]

what choice do they have when it comes to universal basic income. Either income or people starve/revolt

[peak halo]

Yes.

[charred temple]

me and my buddy were talking about this and were thinking of projects we can make to help humanity

[peak halo]

Make something that lobbies policy makers to prepare for UBI.

[merry ledge]

where would the UBI money come from

[charred temple]

Are you Canadian?

[peak halo]

Money is a shared delusion that we have to facilitate trade. What actually matters is that we can produce all the things that people want to buy.

[merry ledge]

that sounds identical to communism

[peak halo]

Sure

[charred temple]

just because communism adopted that view doesn't mean it belongs to them

[peak halo]

If you have an alternative plan for how we can have an economy that requires less labor than there are laborers, I'd be interested to know. In an off-topic channel.

[charred temple]

@peak haloso you think I should just focus on what im doing rn?

Thanks

[solid parcel]

cough Palantir cough So glad we're giving them access to tons of NHS personal health data 🙃

[tawny sentinel]

Hi everyone 🤗

I created my own private server for the first time 😅

but I don't think it's good yet...

[peak halo]

@tawny sentinel this is the career discussion channel. It's not clear how your message is about that

[next berry]

im working with a PAC on doing this

[next berry]

the concept of a monetary system has nothing to do with that ideology

[vapid violet]

What is UBI?

[peak halo]

Universal basic income

[regal axle]

Universe basic income.
A check for some flat amount for everyone, every month

[peak halo]

If we just started doing it right away, it would probably just cause inflation. But I think it's probably one of the most viable long term solutions if we make other structural changes in the meantime

[open ivy]

given that we spent years working hard at this

That's a good point. It takes time to build up a strategy. Which is why we should hold on to examples of successful peoples strategies instead of letting them get buried. Especially when they post it in detail.

[open ivy]

Ghosting happens IRL also.

It's just that on social media, which includes LinkedIn, attention is very unequal. So you have a situation where a few people get a lot of attention, and really really benefit, but most don't.

Thankfully there are people on this forum who know how to use LinkedIn very well and could help you.

[mortal wedge]

Job hunting is a cursed optimization problem. There are so many statistical/data issues at play. Sampling bias, survivorship bias, concept drift (changing/volatile market factors), spurious data points (people lying to seem more attractive than they are), incorrect cause and effect attribution (nobody has the time to A/B test individual factors and oftentimes we don't know which change impacted things), limited observation pool, inaccurate feedback from companies/hiring processes....

It's a mess. I really don't think there is one solid "trick" or easy solution that cuts through all the BS (aside from being independently wealthy/incredibly connected).

Do what it takes to stay sane, pull all the levers you can that increase your odds, and try a bit of everything. Pay attention to what is getting you better returns as well so you can best allocate your time/energy.

I promise that if I discover a surefire hack to get hired I will share it here first

[short tendon]

Hi, I was looking for career/college advice, I am currently enrolled into a computer science degree (starting freshman year this august) but am not sure if I should switch to computer engineering. I like both and have dablled in physical/software and enjoy doing both but I am more concerned about my career or job prospects after uni. If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it!

[sand patio]

if you're going to be applying for SWE jobs, your prospects will not change regardless of whether you're in CE or CS (because you're still competing for the same positions). If you switch to CE, though, you might also apply for engineering/EE adjacent positions, which are a separate market

[regal axle]

Both are solid options.
The market in both are very volatile. For very different reasons. CS because tech layoffs and tons of uncertainty. Computer engineering because they are over hiring right now (in some sectors) to meet an inflated demand. And that over higher will have a later correction.

All to say; you can’t predict exactly how things will play out. And trying to, will drive you crazy and also be wrong. Instead, it’s easier to focus on what you gravitate towards. What you are better at. What you enjoy. Focus on becoming highly competent in your field and there will always be jobs and demand for skillful individuals.

[sand patio]

and yeah, that

[short tendon]

Thanks, I will keep computer science as my major for freshman year then switch if I do not end up liking it or even double major. I know internships are very important in college any advice on getting an internship and factors that may determine that?

[peak halo]

@short tendon keep your grades up and talk to the career services center at your university. They know what employers recruit from there and what they're looking for

[short tendon]

Gotchu, will do. I'm just worried I wont be able to get a job after college or internships during lol, but once I start my first year I most definetly will use resources at my college. Btw what year should I be expecting to land an internship?

[peak halo]

After sophomore and junior

You usually don't get one after freshman year because they have at most one semester of your academic performance to consider.

Since hiring decisions are made during the spring

[short tendon]

Ah alr, when applying should I mostly aim for small business and just apply to as many near my area cold calling? Since I most likely wont be able to land one at like Google or something?

[peak halo]

My friend got an internship at google and now works there. It happens.

But working for top tech companies isn't the be all end all. Lots of people have great careers with great pay elsewhere

[short tendon]

O nice, what major and college, and what year did he get the internship if I could ask?

[peak halo]

He was at Cornell and he was working on a project for the university that impressed the recruiter for Google, I guess.

[short tendon]

Ah

I have an internship thing right now with a small tech company thats near me so I will most likely look to work there during the summers, ofcourse I will apply to the big companies but I most likely wont get the position.

Only thing is I dont really do much or learn at all so I am not sure how much it will help

[peak halo]

Do the full time employees there do things that interest you and get pay/benefits that you would like?

[short tendon]

Yea I would say so, pay not so much though especially for the hours they work.

[fervent pond]

anyone know how to ddos and teach me?

...

[open ivy]

I don't think it's a "simple surefire hack". When you say "cursed optimization" you are referring to two big issues:

1. If you just keep getting rejected and nothing seems to work, you have no data to improve.
2. When stuff does work it could well be lucky noise and not signal.

But a few users here really like them. 1/10 chance of hitting interviews or stable new contacts and 1/30 chance of getting in. That's quite good when AI slop spews out thousands of apps per opening.

How consistent is their luck? How transferrable is this success when they describe it in detail and we copy it and adapt it? If we had a decent library of "1/20 success chance stats" maybe something would work. And it's not a zero-sum game because it also makes it easier on the employers.

[peak halo]

!warn @fervent pond this will be your only warning to never ask about DDOS again.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @fervent pond.

[fervent pond]

may i ask why?

[peak halo]

You know why.

[open ivy]

Because harming other people is not good.

[fervent pond]

thats harm?

[peak halo]

There's no point continuing this conversation so I'm muting you if it continues.

[fervent pond]

1 more thing i was just trying to test it on my website i didnt know it was harm im so sorry

do u forgive me?

[peak halo]

Yes

[fervent pond]

before i leave the server 1 more question isnt this the server where yall are a group of ddosers this is my last question

[peak halo]

!ban @fervent pond it seems like you don't understand what this server is about. You can appeal if you ever come around.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @fervent pond permanently.

[cloud inlet]

hi r u developer?

[old vessel]

Hii

[next berry]

Your obsession with this is really unhealthy

[rough hemlock]

Hello, I want to ask for advice here on what certifications should I take as a complete beginner on Python if I want to have a remote job. Can anyone gives me insight and advice on this? Thank you.

[vast shoal]

Certifications are basically useless.

The best way to get any job in software as a complete beginner is to go study CS or CE or something like that at uni. But even if you do, remote jobs are hard to come by these days.

[tidal gazelle]

Regarding this if you don’t mind I have a question
What do you think about a MSc vs a MEng for computer science?

[next berry]

In the UK it makes little to no difference on a broad basis. In the US and other western countries, you may need to inform potential employers/academic institutions about the differences

[limber bramble]

hello i need help reguarding C and C++ can i ask here? (i dont need any coding help )

[urban hazel]

Is there a high demand for low level lang dev jobs?

Compared to high level lang jobs? Which one has a higher pay? higher chance of getting into one?

[lost fern]

M.Eng means you are getting an Engineering degree. Would it be explicitly Computer Engineering/ Software Engineering, Information Engineering or even Electronics?

The name of the specific engineering discipline matters more than the M.Eng title

M.Eng is an "integrated masters" 4 year course. You usually do a big project in the final year, but you still select modules and depending on the university, the modules might be specialised in something, so nearly equivalent to an MSc in that something, or they might be varied, as varied as your previous year modules

Whereas the MSc is usually more narrow and specialised than the Bachelor.

[grizzled moth]

can anyone help me in my aiml carrer i am in 2nd year of my btech engineering cource

[peak halo]

Have you made that known to the faculty at your university?

You're going to need at least a masters to do work at the intersection of btech and AI. They can tell you what your options are

[grizzled moth]

ohh but i am in a tear 3 college in india

[peak halo]

I don't know enough about the education system in India to comment.

[grizzled moth]

in short in my case we cant get depend on faculty

we have to figure it by ourself

[peak halo]

The kind of work you're describing requires a lot of academic training. I'm not sure what you can do if you can't rely on universities

[grizzled moth]

universities are just for giving job opportunities we have to just focus on our skills and project and a good cgpa

[peak halo]

You're talking about bio technology, right?

[grizzled moth]

noo

[grizzled moth]

artificial intelligence

[peak halo]

Evidently I don't know enough about education in India to help you.

[grizzled moth]

Can you guide me on how I should study and prepare myself to get hired at companies like Google or Apple I want to build the right roadmap for now

[open ivy]

Depends on what it is about apple/google that you really like?

[grizzled moth]

What I really like is the level of innovation, impact, and the kind of engineers working there I want to become skilled enough to work on big real-world products and AI systems like they do

[open ivy]

What makes you think that google/apple have a higher "level of innovation"?

[grizzled moth]

i think they work on products that impact millions of people globally and push a lot of research and engineering forward especially in AI, hardware, and software ecosystems that kind of environment i like

[open ivy]

That isn't more innovation that is more resources. Innovation level not necessarily higher or lower.

Do you want to be the core product engineer at a small company that makes a product a hundred thousand people use? Or do you want to be a small part of developing a product that a hundred million use?

[solid parcel]

gestures at Google's research output, industry defining thought leadership (Hello, SRE), monumental R&D budget and tremendous talent density

[open ivy]

Don't startups also have a high R&D budget as a fraction of total budget? If google has 1000 times the people and 1000 times the innovation it's per-capita innovation is no higher.

gestures at all the creative minds I have seen who are not well known in industry and don't work at a famous company

[fringe sphinx]

This gets in a lot of semantics. What's innovation really? Is iteration innovation? etc. https://www.christenseninstitute.org/book/the-innovators-dilemma. Is innovation a meaningful measurement?

[solid parcel]

As a fraction of budget, yes startups absolutely do.

[fringe sphinx]

Anyway, to your point: Big companies and small companies are all doing interesting things. You can be in a boring job at a big company & at a small company. You can be in an exciting job at a big company & at a small company. It's hard to say just on size of company.

[fringe sphinx]

And to your question: a core part of your plan must be to get a degree. Assuming that, then preparing yourself by - building a strong technical foundation, gaining experience, and joining activities & clubs while in University to be a well-prepared mind.

!slorb is a good place to start with learning Python

[inner wren]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[open ivy]

Many skills are learned by carefully studying other people's techniques, looking at specific examples in detail and copying/adapting them. Why would cold strategies be any different?

[dusky night]

Learning and making more mistakes makes you better and get stronger

[grizzled moth]

That makes sense actually.

[grizzled moth]

I’m already doing my degree, so right now I’m trying to focus on building a strong technical foundation, improving my skills, making good projects, and joining communities/clubs to gain experience. But I’m still confused about what kind of projects I should build and which clubs or communities I should join to grow faster and stand out from other students.

[fringe sphinx]

The tough part about these types of questions is: it matters less about which project you do, and matters more about your interest in the project.

[solid parcel]

To follow up on what @fringe sphinx said, it often comes down to level of specialisation, too. The larger the org, typically the more niche the role you fill, whereas at a smaller org you tend to have a much broader range of responsibilities. Pros and cons to both...

[fringe sphinx]

I know people who do AI projects and have zero passion for them, and probably don't learn very much from them.

[fringe sphinx]

In other words, if you spend the next two years working on one project, getting deep, and becoming an expert in your narrow field... that might be more interesting than someone who does 20 things very shallowly.

[fringe sphinx]

But, if I had to scheme a maximum ROI route... I'd probably say - get involved in some OSS projects that you use / are interested in. Contribute at the beginning just by triaging and testing, then if you're interested, consider fixing bugs/etc.

[grizzled moth]

Makes sense. I still have around 3 years left before I graduate, so I’ll try to plan and improve myself accordingly while keeping your advice in mind.

[solid parcel]

Best advice I can give is to follow the things you're finding interesting, have a plan but be flexible with it, and work to deeply understand concepts rather than just engaging superficially. With the overall goals of building real technical depth in a domain you enjoy, and avoiding burnout.

[grizzled moth]

Got it

[grizzled moth]

Thank you, this will help me and I think I understand things much more clearly now.

[grizzled moth]

Got it, that actually sounds really interesting. But honestly I have no idea how to find good OSS projects or communities as a beginner. Are you talking about GitHub/open-source contributions? If yes, then how can I find beginner-friendly projects or communities to start with?

[fringe sphinx]

One place to start with is packages you've used. Have you done any projects recently?