#career-advice

1 messages · Page 288 of 1

boreal osprey
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Software engineering i think; but at the same time I want to work on the lower level aswell to actually understand how things work. But if i went for the lower level now i'd have to deal with physics and chemistry, which im bad at...

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so hopefully at uni i can also learn C or C++ alongside python and understanding how computers actually work

hearty sierra
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boreal osprey
boreal osprey
hearty sierra
boreal osprey
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boreal osprey
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spring bridge
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I was coding manually in my 1st year as a student, then AI got more popular, so I had no choice but to adapt to vibe coding to keep pace with my peers. I guess it is acceptable if you know how AI works on your code.

near ocean
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"coding manually" i dont think i've heard of this phrase before lol, this is some twilight zone shit

proud glacier
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<@&831776746206265384>

stark jolt
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Which is best for future high paying jobs
Ai/ml engineer or software engineer?

nocturne harbor
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!clban 1454430742749904987 scam

inner wrenBOT
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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @inner bridge permanently.

spring bridge
hearty island
near ocean
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You stay out of the drama

idle lynx
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bro how to just start with python

hearty sierra
inner wrenBOT
blissful charm
ivory compass
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ah but if you really want to get into those then u would I would say probably need atleast a masters at a prestigious university

icy stream
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i dont understand u speak english

mortal crow
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supakon.app was built for ai learners. as a software engineer, I think it's good for beginners.

icy stream
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@noble linden

noble linden
icy stream
distant trench
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Wanted some advice on something if someone is available

Currently trying to steadily learn python but just found out my uni will be teaching c in the 1st sem and only in the 2nd sem python

Should I stop python and do c or continue python rn

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2 months out btw is when uni will start

mighty spire
solid parcel
# distant trench Wanted some advice on something if someone is available Currently trying to st...

You'll be fine either way. The reason a lot of courses start with C is because it's a lower level language than Python. So when it comes to building up a mental model of how computers and languages work, as well as the resulting implications of your code design on performance, that's often easier to achieve in a language like C because you have to explicitly handle things like memory allocation, which Python takes care of for you.

fringe sphinx
open turret
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how to get fucking grade nine computer science gcse ocr paper 2 NOW

next plover
peak halo
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!warn 762225133745471522 Your message was removed for asking for a job, which is not allowed.

inner wrenBOT
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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @still seal.

frosty frigate
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I want to start learning Python and its applications (mainly try to learn building an ML model ) but i started with C programming and python feels quite weird to me and idk how to go forward and i am struck in tutorial hell

peak halo
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something you might find challenging is that the data science and ML ecosystem of python is like its own dialect of python, particularly when it comes to iterative operations on arrays.

open ivy
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This list is very helpful! It allows us to start to dig into what a successful strategy looks like beyond just the resume.

I submitted 800 applications, before the AI flood, with no offers.
You submitted 24 applications, in 2026 with all its AI, on a visa, and got an offer.

This isn't just luck. I was trapped in a loop that failed me miserably. You weren't. Such a small number is well within "secret sauce" territory.

I don't think such a huge difference is any one thing. Already there are several details you shared that seem to be improvements over my old strategy. Even with that, there are several details I still will miss since there are so many knobs to turn. Furthermore, my project-based experience may not be as well suited to it (as discussed yesterday). But if at least I can get half of what you have cold apps start to be worth trying.

Sharing the latest anon CV and job post will help us see what the actual process looks like and people have started to ask for my resume. Examples of successes are valuable.

I am also curious how you filtered the jobs, I.e. what keywords you used to decide whether to apply and approximately how many jobs you needed to look at before you found what was a good enough match. I would think most "python jobs" didn't match well because you were looking at specific roles.

A good, well-explained in detail, proven strategy is a workaround the "lack of feedback" problem which is the biggest issue with cold applications.

mortal wedge
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Hey, just wanted to share an anonymized version of my current resume base that I wind up tweaking for different positions. I had several in the past but it got tedious so am trying to go with one for now. Any feedback is appreciated!

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smoky quest
near ocean
mortal wedge
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Let's continue it uhhhh somewhere else, then I'd be happy to continue

lilac yoke
mortal wedge
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Decreasing margins isn't a bad idea. I'm at a really awkward place where ideally I'd have like 1.4 pages but I know that can look bad.

next berry
summer roost
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!kick 1168949556340338722 We won't provide help with cheating here.

inner wrenBOT
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:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied kick to @open turret.

solid parcel
hardy dome
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Guys what makes your resume strong for AI/ML or Computer Vision position, there's a Job Fair at my university so I would be applying as a freshie. What stands out?

mortal crow
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I am a software engineer. is there anyone needs a dev?

vast shoal
inner wrenBOT
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Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

last moat
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does google ads work for landing a job if we create our landing page and put portfolio, reviews and achievements there with schedule a call button.

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i am thinking of this experiment. bidding on keywords like "Hire QA Engineer", "Hire QA tester". per click cost seems to be around 3-5$ in keyword planner. spending 100-200$ is not a problem if it generate leads and long term job.

peak halo
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@last moat I've never heard of anyone attempting this. I can't imagine that a hiring manager would wait for an ad like this to appear by chance, instead of just putting a listing up normally.

near ocean
last moat
peak halo
smoky quest
smoky quest
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Not saying it is 100% impossible, but you do need a thesis behind that experiment

merry ledge
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32 days since i accepted an offer and i still dont know what job i accepted

vestal hedge
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I wanna follow this python course on udemy. I just dont really know how to finally get a job init. Is programming now more compatitive then ever because of AI?

peak halo
mortal wedge
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Trying to get a software job without a degree is essentially impossible right now. It's hard enough for people with degrees. Many jobs even want masters/phds

peak halo
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if we (the US--I won't speak for other countries) could first get to a point where we're not actively sabotaging ourselves, credential inflation would be a nice issue to tackle.

mortal wedge
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It is dystopian as hell to see companies argue and even the supreme court entertain arguments that there's a lack of suitable talent in the US so they must offshore/increase tech work visas on the hells of so many FANG companies doing layoffs.

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(Dealing with that would probably go a long way, but c'est la vie)

smoky quest
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There are tons of people who do lack the skills to perform the job

peak halo
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the framing should be "there are tons of jobs that lack a US person who can and is available to do the job"
is that still true?

smoky quest
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I would agree with that

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Remember also there are tons of hurdles to get a h1b, even prior to the 100k fees. You have to prove you couldn't find an american to do the job and it will take monthS for someone to be able to join from the time you apply the paperworks

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And to head off another misconception, the company also has to prove they are paying comparatively to an american for that location/occupation. If that was not the case, a H1B can easily transfer it to another company who would pay them better anyway.

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So while I do understand that blaming immigrants is an easy way to cope with the inability to find a job, it is not a solution. The proper way to deal with it is to upskill yourself, work on your resume, get feedback and build your professional network.

peak halo
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To be clear, the only phenomenon that I've said that I think is a problem is credential inflation. I haven't said my opinion about immigrant workers.

smoky quest
peak halo
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I didn't say that.

smoky quest
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I never said you did, nor my messages specifically tailored to you

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Also another tip: by law, companies must display somewhere a notice of their H1B applications that include title and salary. If you are employed, you can look for it. It is also very frequently hidden somewhere to avoid attention, but displayed nonetheless

fringe sphinx
vapid jay
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I wouldn't even bother "learn to code" now

peak halo
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And I think that's inevitable market self-correction.

solid parcel
celest hamlet
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Jarvis....hold the beer
I don't even wanna drink that shit no more

peak halo
open ivy
# peak halo Is this commentary on the state of the job market?

Lots of people are depressed about jobs, as evident from reading the last few posts. But depression hurts the chances of getting a job.

Going to makerspaces helped me. Because in such spaces you see people struggling economically, employment, etc but also staying motivated to keep going with whatever they are doing.

open ivy
# last moat ahan. there are 100-1k google searches per month for keyword "Hire QA Engineer"....

For the job search, I would say you first ensure that you keep working on something (a funportfolio project, team game jam, etc) and meeting people in your field even just peers. Both also boost mental health which is in short supply and is also vital to get a job.

In your spare time, experiment with other stuff. Cold applications. Recruiter reach-outs. Job fairs. The Google ad so long as it doesn't cost too money.

Individual success varies widely. @smoky quest is right about thousands of job apps making it very hard. On the other hand, @balmy mural only needed to send out 24 applications while on a visa, in 2026. They posted their strategy in detail, you can search for it. It's a bit of work to setup but hard to argue with such a good success. Also post your anon resume for review one of us will get to it.

alpine coral
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what roadmap do i need to follow to be a data analyst

peak halo
alpine coral
peak halo
alpine coral
peak halo
alpine coral
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the maximun you can found is software engineer and the one im studying

alpine coral
peak halo
# alpine coral Dominican republic

that's really interesting.
I know one person from Dominica (I know that's a different country) who broke in to the US job market by getting a PhD in CS at a US university.

alpine coral
dusty walrus
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hey guys, I´m looking for a job, please tell me how much would I earn? what kind of job am i gonna do? What is the work schedule? the whole team are gonna speak english? what programing languages am I going to use?

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I´m a vibecoder but I know frontent (html, css, javascript, react, vite, typescript,) backend (fastapi, django, flask, javascript node.js) , git, github, electron, android developer with kotlin, google stich, ai, ai agent, mcp, skills, api key, docker.

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i´ve been learning programing languajes for 2 years, and English for 1 year

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And i'm not a robot btw

smoky quest
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Do you have any degree/diploma?

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or any experience?

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or any project?

dusty walrus
smoky quest
dusty walrus
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But I've been learning all that stuff for 2 years

smoky quest
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People get rewarded for results, not effort. It doesn't matter if you have spent 2 or 20 years learning it. If you can't do it without any AI, then you do not know it

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And if you do not know it, then there is no incentive to hire you when they could just use that AI themselves directly

dusty walrus
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Are you an American?

smoky quest
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it doesn't matter what I am

open ivy
smoky quest
open ivy
smoky quest
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different paths lead to different doors

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similarly, I can't become a neurosurgeon with the power of friendship

mortal wedge
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I hear what you're saying, but... person isn't saying they learned the material and then they want a job. They're saying they have no credentials/qualifications and rely on AI exclusively to create code.

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Which is not enough to get hired in this market as.... anyone can do that

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I mean, I just went to linkedin and got 0 hits on "vibe coding" and "vibe coder" for job hits

open ivy
open ivy
smoky quest
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it's also a fantasy to think that someone will build some stuff at home that rival stuff that entire teams or very experienced people will do

mortal wedge
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Shows 80% bachelors, 16% masters, 5% cert/associate (I don't know how they do rounding)

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It's also a bit confusing since it shows 0% doctorate but

open ivy
smoky quest
smoky quest
open ivy
# smoky quest wat. Do you know what people do for malware detection?

No, I am more interested in physics simulation myself. I could go on and on about Lagrangian vs Eulerian fluid simulation schemes, constraint solvers for rigid bodies and collisions, finite element methods, sympletic integrators etc. Each method has limitations and I working to improve some of these shortcomings.

Malware detection, not so much, it's not my focus.

smoky quest
open ivy
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Which isn't the easiest path! Especially if they have to do a day job for all these years as well. A degree is definitly easier if it is available, as you say.

smoky quest
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all of that on their spare time and without formal education

open ivy
# smoky quest so you are saying there is a non-negligible portion of the population that work ...

Competitive with cutting-edge research at the top of the top of college elite schools? No.

At the point where they would be good employees at a standard industry job? Yes (if given a short time to adjust to industry).

Coming up with novel ideas that are missed by the experts? Yes, occasionally. This is because programming is creative and outsiders in creative fields have indeed come up with new ideas such as Jazz.

smoky quest
smoky quest
open ivy
# smoky quest > This is because programming is creative and outsiders in creative fields have ...

Not just anyone. They would need to be self-taught, they would need to be smart, self driven, and it would still be harder with no degree at all.

It is unlikely that they would happen to pick physics per se, there are so many other topics to pick. People in the global south are exposed to different ideas which makes it less likely. Even if such an "informal student" happened to pick physics, they would likely improve the algorithm in a different way than me, making it an apples to oranges comparison instead of a head-to-head competition.

Whatever they pick, it would take years to develop the skills and a lot of dedication. Jazz was no different, they were playing so much their lips got sore.

As to sources, there are plenty of anecdotes, here are a couple of many:
(sorry, paywalls)
https://medium.com/the-self-taught-programmer/the-rise-of-the-self-taught-programmer-3c87b4d9a2ea
https://www.nocsdegree.com/nigerian-self-taught-developers-story/

In terms of statistical sources, your Stack Overflow post shows about 20% don't have a full bachelors, some have no college at all. But this population is heavily toward the USA where basically everyone is expected to go to college. The global south doesn't have the same level of college access.

College is a good thing but, for those of you who couldn't go to college or have a non-STEM degree, please don't give up.

Learn to code without a CS degree
A Nigerian self-taught developer's story

Today's interview is with Mudi, a self-taught developer from Nigeria. He was doing a dead-end door-to-door sales job beforehand.

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TLDR: Go to college if you can!! but don't feel worthless if you can't.

icy pagoda
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A lot of technical roles are creative, almost all of those are not purely creative either so a reasoning of "X often happens in creative fields" doesn't really hold

smoky quest
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Regardless of the creativity, you won't go far without the underpinning theory

open ivy
# smoky quest Regardless of the creativity, you won't go far without the underpinning theory

Yes that is why I am talking about self-taught people who have years of experience and learning. AI has gotten good at teaching, if you use it correctly, my dad is using it to finally start to learn and understand quantum field theory. Socratic method of asking AI "what about this" etc.

And Jazz is no exception. Music theory is intricate and complex as well and they had to learn it as part of the process.

smoky quest
open ivy
# smoky quest In terms of career, these people are negligible

It does seem like creative, self-driven people are rare as a whole and are also spread almost equally across all demographics. And then you would have to take the subset of people who are interested in computers instead of all the other things (art, music, hardware instead of software, writing, horticulture, pure math, etc). So yes it is rare.

But we need to give tangible career advice to people who want a software dev job and who can't go to college for whatever reason. Even if it takes years. What to tell them?

smoky quest
open ivy
bleak heron
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It's correct to say that designing advanced software systems demands knowledge of theory that one might obtain through schooling, but this obviously isn't the only way to go about it. It's really a function of how you learn and what your goals are. To me, college seemed awful, and it more resembled a scam than anything else (at least, for computer science). I would say that I am a relatively autonomous person and deeply enthusiastic about what I do, so I decided to not attend. Others may learn differently and need more structure/oversight, so it may be in their interest to attend it.

open ivy
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My attempt at tangible advice for a non-college coding career path (this is an opinion, anyone else feel free to chime in).
0. Are you sure college isn't an option? Even if you are "too old".

  1. Are you sure you find coding fun? If it's just about money, you are probably better off continuing to advance in your current career or trade with whatever skills you do have.
  2. It will take years. It's not a shortcut! And with almost no structure, staying motivated is hard.
  3. Build both the theory and build projects. Start simple, move on to more complex and challenging projects, but careful not to over-scope.
  4. Find a community, makerspaces seem good although having no college is still a minority there.
  5. Be realistic about how much you can do if/when you also have a day job. Consider transit commuting even if two hours each way and bring a cheap laptop on the bus. Make "bus time" as dedicated "programming time" so at least something gets done even if you pass out the moment you make it home.
  6. Defend your time in general. It's way too easy to waste it doom scrolling.
    @dusty walrus
open ivy
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On a related note, large cooperations make all kinds of buggy bloated software. Meanwhile, Factorio is the epitome of clean performant bug-free code.

So you don't need to be huge to make meaningful projects.

balmy mural
# open ivy Not just anyone. They would need to be self-taught, they would need to be smart,...

Anecdotes show the survivorship bias. The people who don't make it aren't going to post about it.
I'm originally from South Africa. OfferZen is the biggest tech hiring platform in the country. Their survey shows that 86% of people in tech in South Africa have some form of tertiary education. So a degree or formal diploma from a recognized institution is still important. Even in the "global south" as you call it

open ivy
lime badge
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fwiw the head of engineering at the 2nd company I worked for had a degree in English Lit. the lead frontend developer was a Music major who played the drums in college (I also worked with another frontend guy who also played guitar in a band before turning developer)

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i myself do not have a college degree (but i will hopefully have a diploma in a month or two) but worked 10 years before my current dry spell, and have even led a team.

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I think most importantly you need to have the resources to learn if you want to self-teach. i love computers and grew up with one (unlike a lot of my classmates in the philippines)

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it is absolutely hard-as-shit to self-teach and get a job, even harder to get any respect doing it

open ivy
balmy mural
lime badge
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I think there's something of a bias whenever people say college is necessary - oftentimes the people who can afford to go to college also have the resources to study on their own

balmy mural
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I don't think college is a requirement if you already have experience. I also don't think college used to be a requirement a few years ago. But I do think college is practically mandatory in the current market if you're just entering it

open ivy
smoky quest
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Note also that having a job, is not equivalent to having the same job

bleak heron
# open ivy Agree that college isn't the only way. But *college is not a scam*. It's expensi...

College has no right being as costly as it is for the core service it provides. Classes are large and I have been extremely unimpressed with the computer science curriculum my friends have been assigned. I do not envy their position at all.

What makes it seem like more of a scam is the forced enrollment in "diversity" classes that have no relevance to any of your macro educational goals. These are classes that can only possibly exist to waste your time, extending the duration of your attendance so the school can get some extra billing cycles. One of my friend's college didn't have the class required for his major available for the current semester, but they are nonetheless forcing him to occupy the time with other unrelated classes (at his expense, of course).

open ivy
open ivy
# bleak heron College has no right being as costly as it is for the core service it provides. ...

My college required gen ed courses, but not many, and you could pick. And they weren't just wasting time, remember that social skills matter on the job too!

Agreed it's way too expensive! California UCs used to have zero tuition! At least student to prof ratios were low in most classes.

DEI initiatives do seem to be more about checking boxes rather than embracing cultures but they didn't really get in the way of anything.

How did you self teach?

bleak heron
lime badge
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so I started in '04 well before youtube and stuff. I picked python because it was easy to learn (no complicated memory management ala C) and then used whatever tutorials I could find, the Python Challenge, and e-books that I "obtained" from various sources

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the REPL is a godsend for learning - if I didn't get a concept I could break it apart line-by-line in the repl to see how it worked

balmy mural
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@open ivy Only got time now, but here's extracts of 2 jobs I applied to, and my CV. I don't believe there's anything special or standout about my CV. I got to at least a first interview for both these jobs. I somewhat compressed and changed the posts to bullet points just for the sake of more anonymity. But it covers the job description, listed requirements, and tech stack for both.
I didn't consider myself a perfect fit for either of these jobs, but I did consider myself a good enough fit that it wouldn't be a waste of my time or the company's time to at least have a first interview. So I applied.

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/FOBQ

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mortal wedge
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I know this isn't new/different advice, or what many want to hear, but I think it's kinder to hear this upfront. This is just a terrible time to enter into tech, the unemployment rate for new grads in comp sci is higher than new grads in any other sector. Remember, this is college grads.

Things may be different in the future, but competing for a software job in the current market without a college degree has a success rate that rounds down to zero.

If you are really and truly passionate, you may be able to get some other white collar work at a company and then utilize enough coding that if they needed someone they might decide to use you internally. But other white collar work is right behind computer science for unemployed grads.

The truth is that the market is behaving differently than it has in the past, and while nobody can predict the future, what can be said is that for right now you are not entering the field and getting a dedicated software job without a degree.

I'm not making any kind of value judgment on people who can't afford college and no value judgment on a college education here. But I'm flipping through a job board right now and am seeing thousands of applicants for a lot of these roles and nobody is applying without a degree. Heck, for many of these postings most applicants have a masters and higher.

celest hamlet
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thats the best thing to do right now

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I can rejoin the workforce later

broken falcon
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Is there anyone looking for a software developer?

stiff briar
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Majoring in cs still worth it?

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or should i just do coding as a hobby i love and not make money of it and i major in something else like mathimatics.

short robin
fringe sphinx
# stiff briar Majoring in cs still worth it?

I'm not as doom and gloom as others. The market is weird and a lot of stuff is happening at the same time right now. People are blaming AI when there are simple economic factors at work: this is a terrible economic cycle for reasons unrelated to AI. I don't think AI will be the death of engineering jobs, but it'll enable a renaissance of sorts.

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I don't see any long term change in demand for well-prepared engineers who are good at problem solving. I also think it's always been a myth that 'just learn to code' is all it takes: many people graduate with CS degrees who aren't prepared for engineering jobs; this isn't a new phenomena, look at the story of Fizz Buzz

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My recommendation: build a broad foundation of knowledge and experience, challenge yourself, and you'll succeed.

open ivy
open ivy
near ocean
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What day jobs are best for a hobby? Who picks their day job around their hobbies

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Maybe if they had rich parents they could

open ivy
open ivy
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An exhausting (for a given person) dead-end low pay job is worse than no job. Unless you somehow live so frugally you still save up money. No amount of dehydration justifies drinking seawater.

Service jobs vary widely. Chipotle is awful with high churn. Starbucks is better on average, people have energy for personal projects.

solid parcel
open ivy
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I never said a stopgap job has to be ideal! Just any job that either pays well, offers opportunities, or leaves energy for other things.

near ocean
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Between these takes and other linkedinposting im not sure youre being serious

open ivy
solid parcel
granite quartz
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I'm assuming what @open ivy is trying to say is that to continue programming, you should find a job that isn't mentally taxing/better consistency so that you can pursue programming after work, instead of being golden handcuffed to a perhaps higher paying job but leaves you with little/no energy afterwards to improve on your skills

solid parcel
open ivy
# solid parcel It's the fact he was saying having a low paying job is worse than having no job ...

Not just "low paying jobs".

For many, a Chipotle job is:

  1. Low paying.
  2. Exhausting, leaving no energy to search for jobs.
  3. Dead end.

Only when all three of these are present is it worse than no job.

I simply don't have the stamina to sustain such a job myself, even though I would tolerate a wide range of blue or white collar work. Unless I somehow dissociated into a daydream realm while working? So I can't even make that choice.

near ocean
solid parcel
sand patio
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you gotta pay the bills somehow

solid parcel
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Frankly, you're coming across as very insulated from real life

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For some context, somewhere between 40 and 60% of americans don't even have $1,000 in savings (the reported percentage varies depending on the exact question asked).

open ivy
granite quartz
# open ivy Not just "low paying jobs". For many, a Chipotle job is: 1. Low paying. 2. Exha...

I agree with this, but of course only if you're in this privileged position where you can select which job to work. For e.g. single mothers/fathers who can't afford to leave a job and find another one, or they are financially stuck in a job and can't afford to do a switch, then of course pursuing CS as a hobby and then switching jobs may not work out for them regardless.

But if you're in a position where you can choose which stopgap job you want, then absolutely. Choosing a less exhausting job would be the best investment long term if you're spending your time after work to upskill.

open ivy
near ocean
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Basically all stop gap jobs are difficult, its in the very nature of a stopgap job

open ivy
near ocean
open ivy
near ocean
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Yea taking a pleasant walk outside isnt the same as being bored at work, why dont you take one of these jobs and see for yourself

open ivy
smoky quest
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So trim the unnecessary in your life, optimize it, leverage automation, learn to organize yourself, make trade offs, etc.

fringe sphinx
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So if you're stuck in a non tech related job, first step is to try to land something closer to you goal.

mortal wedge
# fringe sphinx I don't see any long term change in demand for well-prepared engineers who are g...

Minor interjection, I'm really skeptical about the whole Fizz Buzz thing. It can trip up smart developers who try to find an elegant solution:

https://www.gayle.com/blog/2015/5/31/the-problem-with-the-fizzbuzz-problem

Gayle Laakmann McDowell
The Problem with the FizzBuzz Problem — Gayle Laakmann McDowell

FizzBuzz is not the basic, sanity-check interview question that many presume it to be. Use it and you might just end up filtering out some of your good candidates who, unfortunately, suffer from the Smart Person's Mirage.

fringe sphinx
keen pollen
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Hlo

mortal wedge
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Fair! I should have clarified. The modern story is that X% of developers can't solve fizzbuzz and I think a good amount of those fall into the "smart mirage" trap

keen pollen
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I learn python programming what should I do next?

vapid jay
stiff briar
vapid jay
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Go major in Electrical Engineering

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That deg is damn powerful, you can do anything with it, even a software job

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Fuck off vibe coder

snow dawn
vapid jay
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no common sense?

smoky quest
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<@&831776746206265384> repeated advertisement

snow dawn
#

didnt know

#

who said it btw

summer roost
snow dawn
summer roost
#

!warn 1484593173576814758 Telling people to "fuck off" is unacceptable here. Re-read our #code-of-conduct.

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid jay.

wraith minnow
solid parcel
near ocean
#

dare i guess theyre not even of age?

solid parcel
vapid jay
near ocean
#

new account, just joined yesterday, dooming in the career channel
why do we tolerate people like you here

smoky quest
#

this is not a great way to express yourself in a career channel on a SFW discord server

vapid jay
#

you are right im a bit too harsh on these kids, my bad fellas

#

i just get pissed when people go around and mislead these kids, "major in CS/go learn to code, you gonna land a $300k software job" in 2026

#

time is gold, dont waste people's time

solid parcel
#

The oldest commit appears to be from less than two years ago, and I've just found an instance of you pointing to localhost for documentation 😂 It hardly screams experienced engineer, I don't think this helps your case, lol

smoky quest
solid parcel
# smoky quest Companies are still hiring and there are still jobs.

Plus frankly outside of bootcamps or YouTubers trying to sell a course, I haven't really seen much noise about tech being an easy route to make tons of money, that notion has died down lots the past couple of years.

I'm glad to see the back of the days where people were claiming if you grabbed a couple of cloud certs you could jump straight into a 6 figure role! There was a brief period in the pandemic where that wasn't a million miles from the truth, but it was fleeting and the message long overstayed the reality.

near ocean
#

when has this server ever said "all you need need is a to learn to code to land a 300k job"

lilac yoke
smoky quest
open ivy
pine sleet
#

where are you getting this information from

open ivy
# pine sleet where are you getting this information from

That interest in app dev exceeds algorithm design?

  1. Meeting far more people in tech who want to make apps than who want to discuss the algorithm design. This is changing as I look to niche spaces that match my interests instead of general tech.

  2. Almost half of all billboards are AI related. But very little about AI interpretability.
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2026/san-francisco-ai-billboards/

San Francisco Chronicle
How many AI billboards are in San Francisco? We visited every one t...

We visited nearly 500 billboards in S.F. and found that nearly half advertised artificial intelligence companies. Our survey shows how AI is reshaping the city.

fringe sphinx
regal axle
#

The billboards are also a consiquence of the hot new thing. They always chase the fad and do no represent the actual average (in terms of these super expensive billboards in the mega cities)

Also also, you can have both. You core product is some "app" but that doesn't mean within it you don't have a massive amount of deep technical work that is required to operate.

lime badge
#

got a tech-specific question: should senior Python devs know how to use metaclasses or is it a task-specific thing that you'd end up learning on the job? I've gone a long time without ever knowing how to use them, and I'm pretty sure I bombed a take-home exam because I couldn't figure out how to debug them

regal axle
# lime badge got a tech-specific question: should senior Python devs know how to use metaclas...

Depends on if the question is “senior Python developer” or “senior developer whose main language is Python”. Those are different things.
If someone expects you to know all that there is to Python … maybe. But otherwise, no. Unless they use a ton of meta classes and then are only indexing for people who they can bring on and up to speed quickly (but that’s dumb since it’s not a long thing to learn if you are a good dev)

icy pagoda
#

you might want to delete this (channel desc)

smoky quest
#

<@&831776746206265384> ad/recruitment

#

also breaking rules

#

also I can't imagine the reaction of some folks here if they saw your message about scanning applicants' stuff

#

(which breaks laws in multiple countries)

summer roost
#

you spammed your ad in multiple channels. Please delete it from all of them.

lime badge
#

uhh i think you replied to the wrong person

summer roost
lime badge
#

no worries

smoky quest
# lime badge really? I'm curious could you elaborate on the difference? they sound the same t...

Think about roles like writing backends. You may have used different languages and even different DBs (ex: postgres vs mysql vs microsoft sql server), but the skills that matter are how you build your backend and process data, not which specific language or DB. The language and DB can be learned rather quickly and what takes time are the skills that are specific to backend.

The same apply to other roles like frontend/datascience, etc.

#

It's like flask vs django vs fastapi.

#

One company might use flask and the next one use fastapi. The difficult part is not learning flask or fastapi but what you can do with them

lime badge
#

yours sounds like a similar concept

summer roost
#

I guess, though I see it as a natural progression. With those definitions, I think people start as developers but should all strive to become engineers

lime badge
#

yeah that sounds about right

smoky quest
summer roost
#

You say in this message that "the report is generated locally. We don't upload the applicant's data to a cloud server.". You said in your first message that you were building a "high-ticket commercial SaaS". If the report is generated locally, what's the cloud SaaS piece?

#

!pban 1480228016830414923 pasting AI slop, and what appears to be a scam

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @frosty leaf permanently.

last harness
#

NO WAY BRO GOT BANNED
]

humble prism
#

hi

fringe sphinx
tribal steeple
#

Hey 👋🏻 anyone help me
I'm Krishna a ug physics 2nd year student from india, btw i want to apply for some internships / research so , anyone give guidance? Any specific research centre or university or any specific field or etc.....

tribal steeple
vestal hedge
mortal wedge
#

Unfortunately, that is essentially the current zeitgeist

open ivy
# vestal hedge so there is totally no interest from companies towards people with no degree?
  1. Industry is big. Startups have a wide range of what rules they go by. A small fraction of startups accept other experience in lieu of a degree. Degrees are good to get if you can get them but impossible without one is a strong word. Rigid rules are for math or physics, not human interaction.
  2. Only a small fraction of those without degrees actually have good experience be it personal projects or industry or wherever. Because we are talking about years of experience either way, as much work or more as an actual degree. Boot camp kids don't have that! "I vibe coded an app that did this online thing" means little.
  3. The level of optimism vs pessimism varies widely, it's hard to get an honest measure of how easy it is to get a job.
  4. A lot of developing apps is business. Because you need a market and people to use the app. Are you more interested in the business side or diving into the deep technical challenges of how things work?
lilac yoke
fringe sphinx
warm mango
#

yo wanted to talk to someone

basically throughout highschool i've had a lot of focus on like medicine + cs, pretty much doing like computational biology stuff/biophysics simulations w ml because i thought it was pretty cool (and it would help w college apps)

might be committing to a t5 cs school (unless i get off one of my crazy waitlists - long story i got waitlisted at 6 schools) but the cs school gave me tuition off so i'm prolly going there.

rn my mom wants me to go premed and my dad kind of wants me to just focus on cs + med, while i'm considering making a switch to cs + math to potentially open doors to ML/finance/quant pipelines. i don't think i want to do like swe (i have a bunch of friends at FAANG, and they're all talking ab how they wish the focused more on like math/probability rather than pure swe because of openings in quant dev positions), but the one thing i'm afraid of is if i take this direction it's gonna be really hard for me to ever do the "helping humanity"/medicine angle that i've been doing in the past

so yeah basically i'm lost, for experience i've done a couple of medical-related internships (statistical genetics - really cool field + actual wetlab work with neurological disorders), but my statistical genetics internship got me hard into cs + independent projects got me really interested in cloud computing even resulting in me spamming google accounts to get free accounts lmao

not sure if anyone has experienced something similar, but lmk your perspectives!

peak halo
# warm mango yo wanted to talk to someone basically throughout highschool i've had a lot of ...

Thanks for writing so thoughtfully and giving us something to work with.

I have a CS degree and am an AI professional. It's pretty common for CS majors to minor in math because there's already so much overlap. My academic advisor actually told me that minoring in math would not be a good use of my time, and that I should instead just take even more AI and data science courses, and that did end up working out for me.

If you want to make an impact in a field that combines CS and medicine, you're very likely looking at getting a PhD. One generally does not finish a PhD at the same university where they started their bachelors. If you want to go that route, you should make that known to your point of contact (either the admissions advisor or the academic advisor) at whichever universities advance you from the waitlist (if that hopefully happens) so they can help you make the right choice.

My company doesn't do anything with finance technology and I don't know anyone in a ML+fintech/quant role (at least not very well), so I can't comment on that.

lilac yoke
# warm mango yo wanted to talk to someone basically throughout highschool i've had a lot of ...

Typically you have two years of undergrad to complete before you get to really specialize in anything. A lot of people hit their first collegiate biology or chemistry class and decide it's not for them. By the end of those two years, you'll likely have completed a math minor as well, so you'll be in a great spot to decide where you want to go (more math or more biology).

At the end of your degree, regardless of what you've specialized in course-wise, it's common to pivot to whatever your best job offers industry is.

So I wouldn't worry about it. College is all about discovering yourself.

still seal
#

Is there any job for fastapi developer?

pine sleet
still seal
pine sleet
#

👍

vapid jay
#

hey guys
so i've just completed my school and scored 92% in 12th and 95%ile in JEE main and not going for JEE adv, will opt for cse in a govt college. so where and what should i start now ?
i have 2 full empty months

smoky quest
vapid jay
smoky quest
#

then build things and have fun!

#

It's gonna be one of your very last summer

vapid jay
smoky quest
inner wrenBOT
faint lagoon
#

Hey guys I want to study data science based on space research give some advice but I am 8th right now😅 and trying to learn python

gaunt cedar
#

Im 16 and want to start learning university material early, Does anyone have anywebsites or material/advice?

flint sparrow
proud glacier
smoky quest
modest kraken
solid parcel
grand depot
#

Hey everyone, i am currently trying to learn dsa in python , can anyone please tell me how do i improve fast ,what materials should i use?

smoky quest
grand depot
pliant hedge
#

Piton

prisma breach
#

does anyone know. how to find work for ai integration?

final pier
#

How does I start in the backend? With flask?

fallow badge
#

im very cooked. i need help in becoming the greatest software engg.

vapid jay
#

F

fringe sphinx
fallow badge
peak halo
# fallow badge how

every software engineer is at one point the worst software engineer in the whole world, for at least the first several minutes

sterile helm
#

just wanna ask..as AI becomes more powerful, how are we gonna find jobs in the future ? im just a juvenile from college

peak halo
sterile helm
#

cause my boss now rreally likes ai tho , literally they treat AI like god

peak halo
# sterile helm but how is it overstated ?

Generally speaking, the people who say that AI can help capable people do their jobs faster are correct, and the people who think AI can completely and totally eliminate the need for a human are wrong.

peak halo
sterile helm
#

ah..

#

well actually apart from codes, some of my friends who works as artistians often worry about that too

#

sigh, some game companies start to fire ppl from the art department, i dont wanna become wiped out like them aish

peak halo
#

I think what will end up happening is that, among the companies that do "AI layoffs", most of those companies will just become permanently less productive and maybe even go out of business, and the rest will eventually hire back some of the positions they eliminated.

sterile helm
#

but how it will become less productive ? (sorry i really have many concerns and questions

peak halo
sterile helm
peak halo
#

it might save them money compared to paying for the humans, but then they'll just be a budget company with a budget product/service.

sterile helm
#

have a good day man, wish you the best i can do

frigid flame
#

where can i start learning python? any good place which is not too hard to understand? (im beginner)

peak halo
inner wrenBOT
solid parcel
peak halo
solid parcel
lyric dew
#

Can anyone give me some advice on the timeline for learning Python?

peak halo
#

My anecdata can beat up your anecdata

peak halo
lyric dew
#

road map

peak halo
#

!learn

inner wrenBOT
lyric dew
solid parcel
#

Lies, lies and damned statistics

peak halo
#

I was talking to a public school teacher recently about how high schools should stop teaching advanced math by default and replace at least one math course with statistics and data literacy.

#

like, data literacy is >> trigonometry for basically 100% of people.

solid parcel
fringe sphinx
#

I also practice what I preach , my kids took calc over the summer at our state U, and took stats senior year instead

#

(Taking calc over summer was genius move: college credit without a full year of Hs nonsense and no ap test)

peak halo
#

high school calc with no AP test? that's time robbery.

fringe sphinx
#

Yah, my sons logic was (after he heard how much I hated calc in Uni) if it's going to suck, I might as well do it in 7 weeks when I have nothing else going on

peak halo
#

I felt like calc 1 was reasonably paced, but then they try to pack way too much content into calc 2

#

methods of integration, and sequences/series are more than enough

#

now that calc 2 is several years behind me and my ability to pass the course is no longer an existential necessity, I think I could have enjoyed it.

fringe sphinx
#

Calc 2 frustrated me because it felt like just a bunch of 'tricks' / patterns, and not something insightful

true harness
#

the "big idea" in calc 2 is power series. it's a super important concept in analysis. pretty much everything you learn to to that point is for that

fringe sphinx
#

Calc 1 hit me hard more bc of just algebra reasons, the ideas weren't hard but not making dumb mistakes was hard

peak halo
#

whereas I always found derivatives to be intuitively useful

#

and like, once I have a derivative, why would I want to go back?

hexed jewel
#

ive been applying but there seems to be no jobs

peak halo
hexed jewel
#

i feel like switching fields

peak halo
hexed jewel
#

drive a taxi idk

#

i mean

#

yea idk im not even good at this programming thing

solid parcel
hexed jewel
#

india, .uk is just because my username ends with a u and it was cheap

solid parcel
hexed jewel
#

ive been screaming about that project, it never helped me in my job search

solid parcel
hexed jewel
#

right now im not in a city like that, had to relocate for a job

undone phoenix
hexed jewel
#

not yet

undone phoenix
#

that would help a lot actually

#

you can use it to relocate

lilac yoke
hexed jewel
#

thansx

lilac yoke
#

I see you've used the Cloudflare stack before, have you considered applying for any of their roles?

hexed jewel
#

what

lilac yoke
#

at least it shows you making a contribution to workers-sdk

near ocean
lilac yoke
sage iris
#

What careers are there for programmers I like coding and stuff

near ocean
lilac yoke
sage iris
near ocean
sage iris
near ocean
#

I know so many devs who got jobs without even a github account, im not sure whether i would even suggest doing projects to uni students anymore, feels like a waste of time

proud glacier
near ocean
#

Im not sure

proud glacier
peak halo
#

I definitely think that personal projects are critical for growth. Whether they're worth resume real estate is another question.

lilac yoke
# near ocean Was it a big reason you got an interview? How was the technical interview? Would...

I was referred to the team (because I reached out and shared my project). Technical was standard, but I flew through it and we chatted for the majority of it.

I doubt I would've gotten even the interview without that project. I had taken the full Cisco curriculum but never got the certification. Making an IETF and IEEE compliant internet from scratch in Rust was more impressive than a CCNA anyways.

near ocean
#

From what i've seen theyre mostly useless resume fluff
Sure they might make you a better dev but will they help you get a job?
Crushing leetcode problems can help you get a job, a degree will help you get a job

lilac yoke
#

In my experience, they are the key to getting a job. Few are capable of making a project of genuine value during college though.

near ocean
#

But many more are capable of getting a job, so is it valuable time spent?

lilac yoke
#

Absolutely, hardly a day goes by where I'm not reminded of the fundamentals I studied to make my projects.

#

In this job market you should be doing absolutely everything to stand out

proud glacier
pine sleet
#

real

proud glacier
#

besides, like
the point of programming is to build stuff
it's what I want to do
if one considers that a waste then why even this field

near ocean
#

Also, this is career advice, getting a job and being good at software dev are different things

lilac yoke
#

Well, mine had 4 stars and I found work. So I'm not sure we have enough evidence to throw anything out.

near ocean
#

We throw the "do more personal projects than leetcode" advice out a lot, why

lilac yoke
#

Can't put "good at leetcode" on a resume

near ocean
#

Most people dont have impactful projects
A good chunk doesn't have projects at all
Most CS students go on to find a job
That leads me to believe that personal projects arent actually as valuable as people suggest

#

ofc people are free to do personal projects but its disheartening to hear someone with an impactful project struggle to find work

vast shoal
#

Better developers probably have an easier time finding jobs on average.

#

It's not the only thing that matters, of course. But it does matter.

fringe sphinx
vestal hedge
vestal hedge
solid parcel
vestal hedge
#

i have this look at it. you either smart and know how to build a business, so you can have two fingers up and be like screw it, i make this work or get a degree.

solid parcel
#

I'd also differentiate between one-shot projects and ones you actually continue to develop and maintain in response to issues raised by users. If it's the latter, that's a far more compelling signal than abandomware

vestal hedge
#

i wanna have the more screw it mentality and build something, but noticed i just really sucked at it.

near ocean
#

im going to blame social media for this

fringe sphinx
#

There's also startups vs small businesses. Starting a business comes down to: can you find someone who will pay you? (Startups imply, to me, something else... usually involving other people's money).

#

Finding people who want to pay you for a service is indeed hard.

near ocean
#

small business in tech usually means startups, no?

fringe sphinx
# near ocean small business in tech usually means startups, no?

To me there's a difference. Startup implies trying to get to some rapid growth or larger vision. Small business is about building a revenue stream, etc. VCs will often refer to some of them as lifestyle companies: companies that pay people's salaries and life but aren't very interesting from an investment perspective

bleak path
#

How is the general view on internships outside of the US vs in the US? I have an offer for a PT econ/stats government position in the US but I also have a full time offer for spatial statistics / CV in another developed country.

lilac yoke
bleak path
mortal wedge
mortal wedge
fringe sphinx
mortal wedge
#

Expand your world, etc

#

Honestly, I think FT > PT often enough and while I don't have full context, the spatial statistics sounds like it's deeper rigor which could be pretty cool

#

I am admittedly vastly oversimplifying the space, but most of the exciting research stuff I see is in other countries these days.

#

It's a more nuanced discussion about R&D being funded by the private sector compared to government grants. Private sector funding tends to be on the most profitable/sensational topics while the idea with government funded grants is to go towards areas of research with the greater value (although you still run into the profit/sensational aspect to a lesser degree).

To give some context, I'm in medtech. The two most "lucrative" conditions to treat in the US are heart disease and diabetes due to its prevalence in the population. Most of the notable recent research in neuroscience for example I've seen is coming out of China and Germany. China specifically has been sinking an incredible amount of money into science research across the board and is still ramping that up pretty fast.

#

Has anyone had better luck than me in industry hopping?

I'm not really getting any traction outside of medtech. And medtech is hurting right now, so there genuinely is not that many relevant roles coming out for me to apply for.

mortal wedge
#

Man, "posted 5 hours ago" and "no longer accepting applications" is just wild

cursive edge
#

I just wanna make a nice friend

jovial jungle
#

Hey, I'm new on discord and server.

tiny zealot
#

Hi guys,

Profil: Quentin - 24yo - ex-air forces - unemployed - wanna learn python

I am looking for friends which can help me out with learning python.
These last years, out of curiosity i have learned a little of html / java(s/t)/ etherum bc (sola-something?) / data with excel

Sooo, finaly i decided to learn more deeply and everyone say that python is like the best place to start with.
If im happy in it, i'd love to work in cybersecurity or data science, even AI.

But to reach that point you need to like it and be actualy good in what you are doing, right?

my_question_is: imput("**if you have 2 advices to give me, which ones would it be? **")
#i am looking for guidance, experienced people, should i believe in my dreams or is it unrealistic to think: "i can be hired in a few months if i work hard"

Thank you in advance friends, strengh be with you

fringe sphinx
#

For the first question, ask in #python-discussion . There's lots of resources to help you learn, and it's something anyone can do.

#

For the career question? It's unrealistic to expect you'll land a software engineering job with just a few months of learning. However, there are many types of jobs in tech, including IT and helpdesk and testing, and for a beginner those might be a good first step

tiny zealot
fringe sphinx
#

I'm a software engineering manager in the US, I've worked in big and small companies.

tiny zealot
fringe sphinx
#

Oh, I travel a lot, so throughout the US

hexed jewel
#

im tired of tech

near ocean
lime abyss
#

hlo everyone im a first year student doing cse....im bit confused about what i should persue as many of the seniors say ai ml is good for research only and there arent any entry roles for freshers so i should focus on dsa and core subjects more.....also idk in which language i should do my dsa with python or java......secondly im kind of confused as to what roadmap i should follow....so it would be big help to get some genuine advice in this era if ai...thank you

peak halo
lime abyss
#

if its like that in europe then definetly its gonna be harder in india so yeah i will need that too ig thxx @peak halo

quasi pelican
#

which tech companies arent vibe coding

peak halo
wide harness
#

what does vibe coding mean literally

proud glacier
# wide harness what does vibe coding mean literally

https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383

There's a new kind of coding I call "vibe coding", where you fully give in to the vibes, embrace exponentials, and forget that the code even exists. It's possible because the LLMs (e.g. Cursor Composer w Sonnet) are getting too good. Also I just talk to Composer with SuperWhisper so I barely even touch the keyboard. I ask for the dumbest things like "decrease the padding on the sidebar by half" because I'm too lazy to find it. I "Accept All" always, I don't read the diffs anymore. When I get error messages I just copy paste them in with no comment, usually that fixes it. The code grows beyond my usual comprehension, I'd have to really read through it for a while. Sometimes the LLMs can't fix a bug so I just work around it or ask for random changes until it goes away. It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but still quite amusing. I'm building a project or webapp, but it's not really coding - I just see stuff, say stuff, run stuff, and copy paste stuff, and it mostly works.

wide harness
#

erm so like did this guy popularize vibe coding the phrase or is he just describing it

proud glacier
#

to my knowledge, he coined the term

keen epoch
#

Hii i am 18y male from India from (arts) background and I my result is out now, where I got 80% so now I have to go for college but I want a career option for in tech

snow zinc
keen epoch
#

I like tech much and I want to think to go with any programing language to go for any get a job to earn well

#

I want learn whatever is necessary for getting a God job

#

But i didn't have any path to go with

keen epoch
snow zinc
#

well current freshers jobs scene in india is kind of shit

#

not discouraging but not sure what to recommend to you specially, tech fields if you are looking for it is one of the most saturated, ill suggest ask someone more knowledgeable than me.

quasi pelican
late parcel
#

Hello guys, I'm learning python right now, I've got the fundamentals... like: conditions, variables, loops, classes.

What do you think I could, should learn next?

near ocean
late parcel
vast shoal
vagrant rover
#

what websites or places are the best to learn python?

peak halo
inner wrenBOT
#
Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

merry ledge
#

how long before my job starts will i know the team or contact of who ill be reporting to?
im getting worried

near ocean
merry ledge
near ocean
#

You didn't interview for your position?

#

Or did a 3rd person interview you is what you meant

merry ledge
near ocean
#

Do you have an HR contact? Email them
Or their recruiter maybe if theyre internal

solid parcel
merry ledge
merry ledge
near ocean
#

That is weird and unprofessional of them

merry ledge
still condor
#

!warn @vapid jay Make sure to read our rules. We do not allow offering paid services on this server.

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid jay.

mortal wedge
merry ledge
thin ermine
#

Hey guys

mortal wedge
# merry ledge yes

IBM had essentially eliminated all entry level positions and then recently pivoted to hiring back for entry level. It's not a great excuse for them, but you might be experiencing some of the "growing pains" as they re-establish hiring practices/pipelines for entry level

merry ledge
mortal wedge
#

It's.... unfortunately a job market that is more prone to do that sort of thing

merry ledge
#

💀

mortal wedge
#

Honestly, just control what you can. You can always keep applying until you actually like.... start th ejob, lol

merry ledge
#

yeah i only had 400 rejections

#

should i send a third message?
i dont want to annoy them but this is becoming unprofessional

mortal wedge
#

How long has it been since last message?

merry ledge
#

april 6

mortal wedge
#

Knowing when /how often to message is always a bit cursed.

When is the start date?

#

April 6? Yeah, go ahead and send a followup

merry ledge
#

july 6

merry ledge
mortal wedge
#

Yeah, that's frustrating.

smoky quest
merry ledge
#

which is why i dont want to send it

smoky quest
#

what did you send last time?

merry ledge
#

i asked for a contact, a timeline, status on the background check, i just want anything

smoky quest
#

can you anonymize it and paste it here?

merry ledge
# smoky quest can you anonymize it and paste it here? 
Hello,

I wanted to follow up since it's been a few weeks since I accepted my offer on March 16th. I haven't yet heard from the onboarding team and wanted to check in on the status of the relocation questionnaire and background check.

Is there anything I need to do on my end, or is there an expected timeline I should be aware of?

Thank you,
smoky quest
#

That's a good email. Though if you are to send a new one, I would add:

  • Ask about what you should prepare for so that you can hit the ground running
  • Reiterate how excited you are to start and work with your team

You can blend the two points together.

merry ledge
#

do i send the third?

smoky quest
#

It's up to you. Given we are talking about a timeline of early July, that's a lot of time.
At the same time, given you mention relocation and a background check, that's something that should have been cleared out already

#

Background check is typically delegated to a third party company. That takes just 2-3 days

#

and if relocation is involved, it's not like you can relocate the night before your starting date, assuming you know where to relocate

#

Also worth mentioning that you should check your spam folder and other folders, in case their email(s) got lost

merry ledge
#

i checked

#

ill give it some more time i guess then send it

#

they must have really nuked their onboarding team

smoky quest
#

also check past emails from them in case they have some links about onboarding and life at IBM

smoky quest
merry ledge
#

i was up to 400 apps and its almost summer. i may not have that in me

smoky quest
#

Let's say things go south with IBM and you find yourself in July without a job. Would you rather start looking for a job during summer when everyone is out or already having some interviews lined up because you applied earlier?

mortal wedge
#

They're the first tech giant I've seen reverse their replace all entry level with AI initiatives, so I give them a lot of credit, but hopefully all entry level people are not going through a similar experience with them rn although they might be =/

smoky quest
#

And best case scenario, you won't need it because it will work out with IBM.

#

So you have nothing to lose

mystic frigate
#

Hey guys
A bit off topic but can you plz chose the best gif for my server
Which one is good according to you

mortal wedge
#

This is exceptionally off topic

#

for both this channel and for the server

vast shoal
#

Well, it'd be fine in OT

#

But certainly not here

normal estuary
#

all ur jobs will be replaced by ai 🥀

noble rapids
#

chicken tnadoor

blissful lava
#

hyy bro

solid parcel
nocturne harbor
#

!mute 816599712441827328 This is not how we talk with other people here

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @normal estuary until <t:1776848654:f> (1 hour).

solid parcel
#

You'd better be cracked when it comes to hard skills, because your soft skills sure aren't cutting it...

unique quest
#

Hello

#

How I can exit file from visual studio code to desktop and I on a Linux

next berry
edgy elbow
#

Yo

south cape
#

yo

upbeat finch
fluid hare
astral vale
#

do employers usually visit this discord server, can i make actual connections that could help me get an internship or a job here, or is this against the server rules?

fringe sphinx
astral vale
#

thanks

rugged hinge
wicked lodge
#

where do i learn coding, i know how to code very basic stuff

trim crypt
limpid raft
sage ore
#

Iam finlly back

wanton crescent
#

hi guys, is a bachelor degree enough or do i continue master ?

peak halo
proud glacier
#

<@&831776746206265384> 💀 job-seeking spam in AI voice message form now

tender thicket
#

!cleanban 801873002006052874 spam

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @daring mango permanently.

wanton crescent
supple hearth
#

yo hello guys

#

is anybody making a living with python?

smoky quest
supple hearth
#

thanks for replying btw

smoky quest
#

In terms of career, a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

supple hearth
#

so you wouldnt suggest starting on your own right?

smoky quest
#

you can certainly learn to code on your own. That's fun and that gives you a head start

supple hearth
#

but eventually you must have some form of diploma

#

i get it,thank you so much for your time and information

smoky quest
#

A diploma will certainly help with your career!

peak halo
#

!clban 1296293616121020488 "look in my bio" and it's about a spambot.

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @slim prism permanently.

raven wyvern
#

I’m currently in the 8th grade, and I’ve always had some contact with basic programming (from game servers to bots and operating systemsa). Even though I feel a bit insecure, I want to pursue this field.

I’d like to ask for your opinion: how do I choose an interesting area, and which languages or topics should I start with? I’ve only looked into things superficially, but I think I’m more interested in areas like cybersecurity and backend development. Which one is more worth it, etc.?

smoky quest
smoky quest
#

Damn, the latest openai update is pretty cool. I fed it my resume and it made a cool infographic from it

warm mango
warm mango
modest kraken
warm mango
# peak halo Thanks for writing so thoughtfully and giving us something to work with. I have...

wow this message helps a lot. thank you for taking the time to write this! i'm not sure if getting a phd is something i'm interested in (i kinda want to start making money soon to help my family out), so i'm not sure if you have any suggestions related to that? i know i'll be well off in like swe/quant dev roles, but i guess the trade-off would be the opportunity to work in a field adjacent to medcine haha. guess i'll just have to think about it.

thank you so much though 🙏

warm mango
#

why the sob emoji tho lol

modest kraken
warm mango
#

i've met him personally actually

modest kraken
warm mango
modest kraken
peak halo
# warm mango wow this message helps a lot. thank you for taking the time to write this! i'm n...

if you decide to start working before finishing a masters or PhD, your two options would be to stop working so you can pursue the masters/phd full time, or try to do your job and masters/phd at the same time.

It's usually doable (albeit challenging) to work and pursue a masters at the same time. But everyone I know who has worked and pursued a PhD at the same time has found it very incredibly draining, and were working almost every single minute they were awake for years on end. I am not emblishing.

People usually don't want to put their career in industry on hold to go back to school because they get used to the money.

warm mango
# peak halo if you decide to start working before finishing a masters or PhD, your two optio...

Yeah I'm not sure how feasible it would be, especially considering the grind culture of tech + the difficulty of pursuing a bio/chem-related phd at the same time.

also, I had a question related to the school i'd like to attend/am choosing between, so would you mind if I dmed you about that? it'd be really quick - i just don't feel comfortable just posting anything remotely personal in this server

peak halo
smoky quest
lean timber
#

my teacher teached us about vibe coding should i persue or nah

solid parcel
agile patrol
lean timber
potent fossil
#

Every barber, accountant, fisher or pilot can vibe code.
Get a general understanding of IT and how corporate works. Get some experience in IT in a company.
Otherwise the odds of success arent that great the market is flooded with vibe coders

peak halo
lean timber
next berry
vivid walrus
#

how can i get remote internship in ai related field especially im really good at gen ai.. also i’ve experienced on django ,fast api for backend but im undergrad and beginner lvl

peak halo
vivid walrus
peak halo
# vivid walrus yeah

you should ask the career services center at your university which companies recruit from there.

vivid walrus
#

i wana do it by myself tho and continue job as fresher ??

peak halo
#

what do you mean "do it by yourself"?
internships sometimes turn into full-time positions once you graduate.

vivid walrus
#

also ive work on some ai project

peak halo
hidden harness
#

hiya i'm new to coding anyone can help me out there

vapid violet
#

Is "what are your companies policies on AI usage" to controversial or risky of an interview question?

vast shoal
vast shoal
inner wrenBOT
hidden harness
#

thanks

fringe sphinx
vapid jay
#

Hey

fringe sphinx
wanton spear
#

Hi 👋🏻
I am a 15 year old AI, ML and CV developer.
I make very interesting and real world projects and I and interested to make business out of it💵 and make my career.

peak halo
wanton spear
peak halo
queen urchin
#

Can you get a job if you are vibe coding?

peak halo
queen urchin
peak halo
smoky quest
# queen urchin I was just asking but alright

you can think of it as the employer buying services/skills from you. They are buying your time after all
And from there, what do you have to offer they can't find anywhere else? Are there other people able to provide similar services/skills and for what cost?

wanton spear
# peak halo be as specific as possible about what you think that involves

Using AI in different fields involves identifying real-world problems and applying AI models to solve them in a practical way. For example, in my cricket project, AI is used to analyze player movements using computer vision, provide real-time feedback like a coach, and generate live commentary based on the game situation.

This involves collecting data (video input), processing it using AI models, and generating meaningful outputs such as performance suggestions and match insights.

Beyond sports, I believe AI can be applied in education (as a personalized teacher), healthcare (for early diagnosis), and engineering (for automation and design optimization).
My goal is to explore these applications and build systems that go beyond basic chat or image generation and solve real-world problems.

peak halo
#

jobs where you do the kind of development you've described typically require at least a masters degree. how do you feel about that?

wanton spear
# peak halo jobs where you do the kind of development you've described typically require at ...

Yes, it's correct 💯 I understand that many roles in AI and machine learning require at least a master’s degree because they involve deep knowledge of mathematics, algorithms, and research.

However, I also believe that strong practical skills, real-world projects, and problem-solving ability are equally important.

but Elon Musk prefers the mind of people not the degrees where he truly said it in his conference

errant thicket
#

hi what are your thoughts on wgu for cs degree? does anyone have any thoughts about wgu?

peak halo
wanton spear
peak halo
#

Ones skill and knowledge is what they actually use in their job. The fact itself that they have a degree does nothing. But if you don't have prior work experience, and you don't have a degree, it's exceptionally unlikely that hiring managers will want to talk to you.

wanton spear
#

So, I am building such small projects and making business out of it and when I have both degrees and experience then no one can put me down.

errant thicket
peak halo
peak halo
wanton spear
peak halo
wanton spear
peak halo
wanton spear
proud glacier
wanton spear
solid parcel
smoky quest
# wanton spear Yes, it's correct 💯 I understand that many roles in AI and machine learning req...

Look at what people do, not what they say.
Looking at job ads across Elon Musk companies for entry level:

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/careers/search/job/associate-industrial-engineer-lfp-cell-manufacturing-268341 :

What You’ll Bring
Degree in Industrial, Mechanical, Manufacturing Engineering, or equivalent relevant experience

https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/8420343002:

BASIC QUALIFICATIONS:
Bachelor’s degree in electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, materials science, physics, or other engineering discipline
1+ years working with semiconductor packaging processing equipment, silicon, microelectronics, or packaging design (internship experience applicable)

PREFERRED SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE:
Advanced technical degree

#

He clearly does not do what he preaches

#

On a different note, we have had quite a few candidates dropping out because they got other offers they have accepted

#

Sounds like good news

mortal wedge
#

I have a job interview coming up that I somehow secured before ever seeing the job posting.

I'm... apprehensive. It's one hell of a wishlist, it seems like they want a SWE who is also an MLOps who is also a data scientist who is also a full stack who is also a Platform engineer

#

I'm just going to treat it like low stakes interview practice ig

mortal wedge
#

LMAO okay I got an updated role description this morning that is actually reasonable

fringe sphinx
mortal wedge
#

It was probably an LLM generated jd that someone eventually had eyes on and was able to revise

errant thicket
#

so what a cs degree is dead? i’m lost

next berry
peak halo
errant thicket
errant thicket
peak halo
errant thicket
peak halo
warm mango
errant thicket
peak halo
errant thicket
odd dune
#

Yo chat

wanton spear
barren summit
#

Looks like they’re doing a bit of product promotion 😄 Can’t blame them though these days, getting funding or even a job isn’t exactly easy!

#

Anyone from indian tech,?

ebon schooner
#

hello guys

#

i am new in coding

normal estuary
#

Is it still worth learning to program/code in 2026, especially with all the advances being made in AI right now (Like Codex, Claude, Cursor, etc)? Will programming become an obsolete skill, where simply knowing English is enough to make whatever you need? I am curious because I am considering doing a Math/CS Dual degree, but I dont know whether CS will still be relevant by 2030. Any thoughts?

balmy mural
wanton spear
normal estuary
solid parcel
# normal estuary What value could you provide to a business/company that can't be replaced by AI?...

You're assuming increased productivity leads to a reduced need for employees. If we look at what has happened historically when software engineers have seen new tools improve their productivity, demand for engineers has actually increased. I expect that trend to continue.

I'd also push back on the concept that one engineer can do the job of a whole team by leveraging AI. I've seen many such claims from salespeople and AI orgs, but very little data indicating such an impact.

glossy rampart
next berry
#

<@&831776746206265384> we had to ban this user from our quant discord, very blatant advertising

normal estuary
normal estuary
tender thicket
#

!warn 1485894086002212986 rephrased ads are still ads, please don't post them here

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @marsh orchid.

vast shoal
# normal estuary Is it still worth learning to program/code in 2026, especially with all the adva...

Knowing how to code is arguably more valuable in the age of agentic coding tools, not less, because these tools amplify the skill of whoever is driving them rather than replacing it. Using something like Claude Code or Cursor effectively still requires you to make the architectural decisions the model cannot: what the system should do, how it should be structured, and what tradeoffs are acceptable. Models are non-deterministic and have limited context, so they regularly deviate from the plan or produce code that looks plausible but is subtly wrong, and the only way to catch that is to actually read and understand what they wrote. "Just describe it in English" sounds appealing, but natural language is ambiguous in ways that code is not. In practice, people who already know how to code get significant leverage out of these tools, while people who don't tend to end up with codebases they cannot debug, extend, or trust.

normal estuary
normal estuary
# vast shoal Knowing how to code is arguably more valuable in the age of agentic coding tools...

I understand your point, and sure AI does "amplify the skill of whoever is driving them", the real thinking behind a system does not require programming knowledge, I'd argue its more mathematical logic if anything. But you could make the case that learning CS does train that ability, too, I guess. Anyway, sure, workers reap productivity gains, but then what happens to unemployment rates when less workers are needed for the same tasks?

solid parcel
# normal estuary Yes thats been the historical trend but AI is a totally different concept, I mea...

I hear the concern, and yes there's a chance this time is different. Anyone who says definitively that it isn't is overconfident imo. However, there are other explanations that explain what we're seeing. A) Big layoffs in big tech are not uncommon. If you look at % layoffs at Meta across the last decade for example, you'll see what I mean.
B) Orgs are laying employees off because of AI. However, this is primarily because they are needing free cash flow to pump into building out infrastructure, rather than because AI has given them vast gains in efficiency. Take a look at how expensive Oracle's debt is. The market clearly does not have very high confidence that they'll be able to repay it.

vast shoal
normal estuary
#

Both of you seem to have a very similar answer, and to be honest, I'm not knowledgeable enough to debate whether the layoffs were due to AI in particular. I'd have to do more research

solid parcel
vast shoal
normal estuary
next berry
#

US rates (and so many other central bank rates globally) are decreasing over the last 3 years lol

glossy rampart
next berry
#

Also you wouldn't lay people off to increase free cash flow for capex, plus debt facilities being expensive doesn't necessarily imply lower confidence in paying it back

normal estuary
vast shoal
# normal estuary How so? Programming logic is deeply rooted in mathematical thinking, and probabl...

Programming has roots in mathematical logic, sure, but day-to-day software engineering is mostly not mathematical reasoning. It's figuring out vague requirements, knowing how distributed systems fail under load, understanding why a "simple" schema change takes three months because of downstream consumers, spotting that a piece of code looks correct but will silently corrupt data when two requests race. None of that falls out of logic, it's domain knowledge you build by shipping and breaking things. An LLM can write logically coherent code all day and still produce something a senior would reject for reasons that have nothing to do with logic and everything to do with operational reality.

normal estuary
next berry
solid parcel
# normal estuary Is it still worth learning to program/code in 2026, especially with all the adva...

Imo there are a few parts to this. Do I think learning to code will still be important come 2030? Yes, I do. I don't expect LLMs to replace engineers, and you can't evaluate or refine the output of an LLM if you don't understand what 'good' looks like.

Is it worth doing a CS degree? Yes, I believe it is. A CS degree covers far more than just how to code, so I wouldn't overindex on that aspect. Fundamentals like networking are not going anywhere any time soon.

Is it worth you doing a CS degree? This is the one you need to weigh up. The market for juniors is brutal right now. There are tentative signs of recovery, but things are very much still in flux. I still think tech is a great industry to build a career in, but the barrier to entry is higher and the amount of competition could feasibly lead to downward pressure on wages.

normal estuary
#

I mean for example, I just saw a video of ClaudeAgents testing a model repeatedly and arguing with each other till the final solution is delivered, debugged and fully operational. I'm a novice to programming tbh, so maybe its different?

normal estuary
vast shoal
# normal estuary Why can't companies like Anthropic and OpenAI build models that address this pro...

They probably will keep chipping away at it, and models will keep getting better at the narrowly technical parts. But a lot of what I'm describing isn't a model capability problem, it's an information problem. The model doesn't know that your team tried the "obvious" schema change two years ago and it caused a six-hour outage, or that a specific stakeholder cares about one edge case more than the rest of the spec combined, or that the legacy service it's integrating with has undocumented behavior only three people remember. That context lives in Slack threads, postmortems, meeting notes, and people's heads, not in the codebase. Even a perfect model has to get that information from somewhere, and whoever feeds it in has to know what's relevant, which is exactly the skill we're talking about.

wanton spear
#

A simple question

Which AI Model is better Chatgpt or Deepseek in terms of coding?give reason to your answer.

solid parcel
next berry
next berry
normal estuary
vast shoal
normal estuary
next berry
normal estuary
#

My argument is AI has the potential to cause labour disruptions in the future, and we might be seeing signs of it already. Its not whether its a problem or not, because it obviously is

solid parcel
next berry
#

@normal estuary you're asking pointed questions which I haven't given a response for, then placing the burden of proof on me after the fact.

Are you engaging in this conversation in good faith?

normal estuary
normal estuary
next berry
normal estuary
vast shoal
# normal estuary I understand your point, and I totally agree that CS is more than just 'coding',...

Sure, some roles will consolidate, one person genuinely will do what used to take a few. But two things push against the "fewer workers" conclusion. First, the backlog at basically every company is larger than what gets shipped, and a huge amount of valuable work gets cut every quarter because it's not worth the engineering cost. Cheaper engineering means more of that work clears the bar and gets built, which absorbs capacity rather than freeing it up. This is a pattern known as Jevons' paradox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox): when something gets cheaper, total consumption often goes up, not down. The demand isn't latent in some abstract sense, it's sitting in Jira tickets right now. Second, seniors aren't born, they're juniors who spent years making mistakes on real systems. If the industry stops hiring juniors because agentic tools cover that tier, in ten years there are no seniors to supervise the agents, and the agents aren't yet good enough to supervise themselves. Companies that figure this out early will keep hiring, the ones that don't will hit a wall. That said, there probably is a real transition period where entry-level roles get harder to land, because productivity gains show up before demand catches up. So you're not wrong to be worried about the next few years specifically, even if the long-run picture is fine.

normal estuary
glossy rampart
next berry
normal estuary
vast shoal
# normal estuary That a fair point. Do you believe these AI models will never reach a level where...

Never is a long time, so I won't say never. But there's a difference between "models get better at this" and "models automate the whole thing." The hard part isn't writing code, it's deciding what to build, adjudicating between stakeholders with conflicting priorities, making judgment calls about risk, and being accountable when something goes wrong at 3am. I think it's a fundamentally different enterprise than what the frontier AI labs have been doing so far.

solid parcel
# normal estuary I completely agree that white-collar work is extremely vulnerable to AI disrupti...

To give some perspective from within the workplace, I think you're also underestimating how long change can take 🙂 Many orgs are still managing their environments via ClickOps. I know of multiple major organisations where excel sheets form a key part of critical processes.

Even if, right now, AI were capable of replacing every single engineer worldwide (and we're a longggg way off from that), I'd expect displacement to take years.

Now of course a very reasonable response to that would be that even partial displacement could have a brutal impact, which is true.

normal estuary
# vast shoal Sure, some roles will consolidate, one person genuinely will do what used to tak...

Sorry, I am a little new to all this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your first point is saying that:

  1. A majority of the work Engineers spend time on is on 'backlog' tasks, like bugs, maintenance, updates, etc. Not the actual shipping.
  2. If delivering becomes cheaper, more is built, and thus more backlog tasks are needed, thereby absorbing capacity rather than freeing it up.

And your second point is stating that without hiring Junior engineers, you cannot have senior engineers, and there has been hiring challenges due to AI, however, smart companies are still hiring junior devs to maintain senior engineer productivity in the long run

normal estuary
vast shoal
solid parcel
normal estuary
solid parcel
vast shoal
#

In fact, looking at Jevons' paradox, we might actually end up needing even more people than before, because there are entire projects and business concepts that were simply economically unviable previously.

#

Not just refining existing products, but creating entirely new ones.

solid parcel
#

Ah, as a small data point you might find interesting, @normal estuary the top AI firms are hiring aggressively. Anthropic recently announced they're expanding their UK base from 200 to 800 employees. Bear in mind these are the orgs with the most cutting edge models in the world, as well as the highest concentration of engineers who understand how to leverage them effectively.

normal estuary
#

But don't you think it's still possible these roles will eventually hit a bottleneck? Like, sure, there is a huge potential for increased productivity, but what happens when that productivity is automated and streamlined by even more advanced AI's, too? Basically my concern is, can we be confident that, at this trajectory of LLM development, those tasks aren't themselves automated too, or at least require less human capital? Can the speed of "New tasks" outpace the development of AI?

#

I think I am overestimating AI unreasonably

solid parcel
normal estuary
wicked bobcat
#

is learning coding worth in the AI era?

normal estuary
vast shoal
solid parcel
wicked bobcat
vast shoal
normal estuary
#

I'm not going to lie, I've learnt a lot from both of you, so thank you @vast shoal @solid parcel

vast shoal
#

You're welcome

normal estuary
#

Just one more question regarding this,

"Is it worth you doing a CS degree? This is the one you need to weigh up. The market for juniors is brutal right now. There are tentative signs of recovery, but things are very much still in flux. I still think tech is a great industry to build a career in, but the barrier to entry is higher and the amount of competition could feasibly lead to downward pressure on wages."

What do you guys think about the current situation? Would doing a CS degree in this climate be 'stupid'?

solid parcel
normal estuary
solid parcel
# normal estuary I am in Australia

I'm less familiar with the market/education there. I certainly wouldn't call getting a CS degree stupid, but I'd advise talking to some engineers in Australia as they'll be better placed to give tailored guidance on that front.

normal estuary
solid parcel
normal estuary
wanton spear
glossy rampart
wanton spear
glossy rampart
radiant gulch
#

for a career in the future related to programming, should I take web development or game development

queen urchin
#

Is it better to become data scientist for the future?

peak halo
# queen urchin Is it better to become data scientist for the future?

my take on this might be controversial, but I think "data science" and "data scientist" was always hype. There has never been a "science of data" that is a separate thing from statistics.
Because it was so hyped, companies would give "data scientist" as a title to their employees, regardless of what they actually did.
LLMs seem to have finally killed the hype.

queen urchin
peak halo
queen urchin
#

Data analysis?

peak halo
#

this is an example of job titles being meaningless. there isn't even a conceptual difference between "data science" and "data analysis" except that data scientists supposedly know python.
but if you're a data analyst, and you can't code, you're obsolete.

queen urchin
peak halo
outer patrol
spring fog
#

earned my First ever pro python Certificate!!!

#

from Codédex. now I think I will go for HackerRank next

#

but I had to ask, How many, and what type of projects should I build for my Portfolio? and also, Can python help me have a satisfactory and stable income?

#

I want to know because I am learning Game Dev and need a really high spec device for the upcoming UE6 and right now UE5.(Unreal Engine)

vast shoal
#

If you're not pursuing a career in software, it'll be very difficult and unusual to earn money from it.

arctic mica
#

Good day everyone,

I'm honestly feeling a bit lost right now and could really use some advice about my career, my growth, and my place in programming.
This is my background:
I work with an international organization, but my role is basic mainly reviewing pictures and vetting work done by field engineers through tickets. I wanted more, so I've been learning Python for a while now. I don't go home after work; once it's closing time, I switch to learning Python. I go home only on weekends to prepare for the next week. I spend my evenings and nights learning Python and sometimes doing other studies.

Recently, I got an opportunity to move into the tools team. I spoke with the manager, passed an internal interview, and was given a chance at the Tools and Automation Engineer role. I was really excited it felt like things were finally moving forward.

There's also a big project to automate the manual, repetitive reporting everyone struggles with, and I was eager to be part of it.
But today, I heard that our R&D team has introduced a powerful AI solution. Honestly, it's astonishing. Solutions that would take experts weeks to build, this AI can produce in minutes. I even saw my mentors worried. It made me start thinking about the future, what does this mean for us as Python developers? How do we compete when tools can generate working programs so fast?

So I'm asking sincerely: what should I do? What should I focus on learning? Getting to this beginner level took a lot late nights, effort, small wins and now it feels uncertain. This really hurts.
If you have any advice, please guide me. I truly want to be relevant in this industry.
Thank you all.

smoky quest
smoky quest
smoky quest
solid parcel
smoky quest
#

If you are avoiding AI in the context of a job, then you will be left behind

solid parcel
#

I'd respectfully disagree with the former, and stress that there are levels to the latter.

vast shoal
# arctic mica Good day everyone, I'm honestly feeling a bit lost right now and could really u...

Knowing how to code is arguably more valuable in the age of agentic coding tools, not less, because these tools amplify the skill of whoever is driving them rather than replacing it. Using something like Claude Code or Cursor effectively still requires you to make the architectural decisions the model cannot: what the system should do, how it should be structured, and what tradeoffs are acceptable. Models are non-deterministic and have limited context, so they regularly deviate from the plan or produce code that looks plausible but is subtly wrong, and the only way to catch that is to actually read and understand what they wrote. Natural language prompting is ambiguous in ways that code is not. In practice, people who already know how to code get significant leverage out of these tools, while people who don't tend to end up with codebases they cannot debug, extend, or trust.

#

So the time you spent learning Python is not wasted, if anything it'll amplify your ability to leverage AI tools.

cursive chasm
# vast shoal So the time you spent learning Python is not wasted, if anything it'll amplify y...

So, what should someone who positions AI as a Socratic teacher do to improve themselves? When I ask AI, it tells me to read documentation. When I learn coding, I position AI as my teacher, but I feel like this prevents me from seeing my mistakes. I never feel I'm good enough. I'm not currently having AI write code for me, but I'm learning how to approach a problem from it. Do you have any suggestions on this?

smoky quest
vast shoal
# cursive chasm So, what should someone who positions AI as a Socratic teacher do to improve the...

I don't feel very qualified to answer this question since I didn't have the option of using AI as a learning tool back when I first learned programming, so I'm also not sure what the best way to utilize it, or not utilize it, for studying is. I do think you should focus on building projects rather than theoretical study when you're learning programming, and you should engage proactively with the theory, problems and solutions that you encounter as you build your projects. If you get stuck on something, maybe don't exclusively rely on AI feedback, come into this server for example and discuss your problems and approaches with the community. Try to think of alternative solutions and what their pros and cons are, don't just always rely on the first thing an AI comes up with.

#

I think your resolution to not have the AI write code for you is wise.

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And I'd advise you further to not let the AI do the thinking for you either.

solid parcel
# cursive chasm So, what should someone who positions AI as a Socratic teacher do to improve the...

I regularly use it for this. It can be a great way to make sure you're reasoning through and building up a valid mental model. I'd recommend exploring multiple avenues, and pushing back on assumptions and recommendations to make sure you're engaging with why certain things are the way they are. I'd also recommend validating what the AI tells you rather than taking it as gospel. Referring to documentation, guidance from other engineers, other technical resources (blogs, books etc.)

mortal wedge
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This is just my own take on it, but I try to think of it as different.... "tiers" of information.

There's stuff you need to KNOW to really know (like theoretical foundations), I use AI to direct me to resources and then just.... put in the time/effort to learn it/practice it. I may still use some AI in this process beyond finding resources, but minimally and generally as a last resort. This is because there have been some studies showing that the friction from active learning vs using an LLM will increase your ability to retain the information in the long term.

If it's something that's less important that I may need to know in the short term to contextualize info from a higher tier, I will basically learn by dialoging with an LLM, but still try to poke holes and do a deeper dive into my understanding.

But to take a step back and make a more holistic point, I think the biggest danger in learning with an LLM is on topics that you have no basis to challenge it on . It's easier to challenge and push back when you at least have some level of understanding of the topic and are just expanding your knowledge. Otherwise you are just sort of trusting it blindly and blind trust is dangerous. The LLM doesn't even have to be wrong to be dangerous, it may just be missing some critical context that someone more experienced would be able to interject with.

But this all probably falls more under #pedagogy than #career-advice, although keeping up with your learning and latest developments in the field is an "easy" lever to pull to make yourself more competitive (it's certainly easier for me personally than selling myself better or whatever)

open ivy
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My opinion is that social media background checks aren't a big concern as a general rule, despite how news plays it up as a big threat. But use common sense!. I see tons of ad-hominin personal attacks in Facebook comments. Spewing such vitriol can't be good for a career.

lunar glen
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hi, i'm a javascript engineer - as i have been for 6 years, i'm looking to get into a career using python, but i'm not sure how to get a job starting in python because i've never worked in the field before, and i'm basically a beginner - i've been learning it on and off for about 7 years, can anyone help?

open ivy
mortal wedge
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Idk, just be aware that anything you post on social media that isn't privated can be viewed by anyone at anytime. Just in general.

#

And there are CEOs/company presidents petty enough to reject candidates for the dumbest of things

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we rejected someone because one of the pictures on their social media had a bong in it or something equally dumb

open ivy
# mortal wedge we rejected someone because one of the pictures on their social media had a bong...

LOTS of people have dumb stuff it this level. I would think a history of ad-hominen attacks is worse than a photo of a bong, as a history of toxic behavior that attacks other people is Not Good.

If companies are looking for dumb excuses to reject candidates (who are otherwise solid candidates) then you will see a growing population of "hidden gem" talent that is rejected unfairly over whatever pointless reason but is perfectly employable. What will this talent produce, outside of industry?

fallen escarp
#

do you have the basics down? maybe a little bit of dsa?

fallen escarp
#

python is good cause it's easy to get into, and the syntax is very high level and readable, its mostly used for research/data analysis/some backends

tired crane
#

Hi

weary knot
weary knot
errant thicket
weary knot
pure raft
# solid parcel You're assuming increased productivity leads to a reduced need for employees. If...

I think I’m finally going to push back on this a bit, after studying for a long while and getting the experience now.

This is largely cope, and I hate to say it because I wish you were right. Jevons paradox only holds true in times of mass plenty (the paradox being that a greater abundance of a resource, I.e software, leads to greater consumption, so there’s parity) and it doesn’t apply here. The economy is absolutely fake, and we’re seeing at least steady productivity resulting in mass layoffs still, so actually yes-just because a company can produce more software per employee actually does mean they will use that as an excuse to raise the stock price and lay off thousands of people. It doesn’t have to be “ai end-to-end replaces my job and now that skill set doesn’t matter” for it to still result in less hiring and less opportunities. Jevons paradox is used a lot on these discords and Reddit and other places but it’s not applicable right now, otherwise we would be seeing a rising demand, and not roles being gutted. The rate at which society consumes software is not increasing proportionate to the rate at which it can be consumed, and nowhere near the rate at what it costs-so the best bet is that this system collapses, and it returns to a more ai/SaaS pivoted fusion with less opportunities and only gestalt talent and top 5% are going to get roles in, I hope I’m wrong desperately.

vast shoal
smoky quest
vast shoal
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And even if layoffs attributable to AI are happening right now, I don't think we can confidently assert that it's really due to concrete real productivity gains vs the perception of productivity gains.

smoky quest
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sometimes the layoffs also happen to free up capital to spend on AI.

vast shoal
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"We would be seeing rising demand" assumes the demand response should be instant. Productivity shocks historically take years to translate into expanded output, because organizations need time to figure out what to do with the new capacity.

smoky quest
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We are bound to see many different reasons and situations as companies are trying all sorts of things and seeing what sticks on the wall

vast shoal
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Overall I think it's just impossible to make conclusive statements on how the market will settle in the long-term right now. We are still smack in the middle of the transition and everything is in flux.

vast shoal
# vast shoal Are you sure that mass layoffs can be attributed to AI?

With regard to this I just want to highlight that there are factors other than AI that affect market expansion, like interest rate cycles and other exceptional events like COVID, so it's very difficult to isolate and associate current hiring trends with just one of those factors.

fallen escarp
icy pagoda
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i don't see how "oh hey our engineers are more productive, we need less of them now" is viable from a company standard, maybe I'm missing something.

If a small number of people can now do a lot more with AI, isn't the company's best response to just have more ambitious goals to produce more revenue?
I feel the current layoffs/higher competition etc can be attributed to companies reserving more money for investing into AI research, hardware, data centres etc rather than just needing less people to work with

smoky quest
# icy pagoda i don't see how "oh hey our engineers are more productive, we need less of them ...

Think about it like in terms of levers. As a company, you have a budget and a bunch of levers you can push to allocate budget/invest to them.
If one of these teams finds itself suddenly 3x more productive, it doesn't mean you HAVE TO PUSH that team's lever further. It means you can pull back on that lever to get the same desired level of investment and allocate that extra budget somewhere else where it's more needed

icy pagoda
smoky quest
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and use that money elsewhere

icy pagoda
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sure, the team itself might slow down hiring/lay off people but the budget is probably still going to something. maybe some other team with a different skill set (which is also 3x more productive right now)

smoky quest
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these nvidia cards aren't gonna pay themselves

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and sometimes, it goes to increasing the value of the company

icy pagoda
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makes sense, i do think that's the major problem here. simply allocating budget to invest in AI research, data centres, hardware etc probably doesn't create more jobs and it seems to be very hyped right now

smoky quest
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Because even without reinvesting it, it means I can generate the exact same ARR with half the employees

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hence greater value for the company

icy pagoda
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i don't think companies are supposed to target a fixed ARR if their employees are more productive tbh, it should increase as productivity increases

smoky quest
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it's a great way to measure efficiency

icy pagoda
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ARR/employee is a great metric sure, but if you're aiming for a constant ARR by cutting down employees, it's not gonna hold up well
the net ARR also matters in global competition probably

smoky quest
#

these are separate things

#

you can both decide to:

  • Reduce the number of employees to improve your efficiency
  • Re-allocate some of the budget towards specific initiatives
icy pagoda
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ARR/employee increases if you reduce the number of employees (assuming they do get the same amount of job done)
similarly, just increasing the overall ARR will also increase ARR/employee (and there's the net benefit of competing better at a global level).
naively, one of them seems like a direct upgrade to other - "keep same employees, take on more work"

smoky quest
solid parcel
smoky quest
#

note also it's far easier to reduce the number of employees than generate more ARR

icy pagoda
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reducing employees improves only one of them, keeping other constant

smoky quest
smoky quest
icy pagoda
smoky quest
#

It's also a great opportunity to get rid of the low performers or people who avoid AI

solid parcel
smoky quest
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Unfortunately, they are an easy target

icy pagoda
solid parcel
icy pagoda
solid parcel
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I'll be interested to see how everything unwinds in terms of the AI bubble. From my understanding, there are blockers all over the place that make the buildout commitments a lot of orgs have been making practically impossible to meet, and we're already seeing hundreds of billions of dollars worth rolled back

steady rune
#

Yo

finite meadow
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I need to both study and read; how can I find a job through software development during this period? I have a high school diploma in information technology.

vast shoal
finite meadow
vast shoal
finite meadow
vast shoal
#

I think that's very unlikely. If you need to work to pay for studies, you're probably better off finding a different type of job.

fallen escarp
fallen escarp
lunar glen
fallen escarp
#

concepts are very similar, if not simpler

solid parcel
finite meadow
fallen escarp
#

are you working for a company now? or is it more freelance?

finite meadow
fallen escarp
finite meadow
solid parcel
# finite meadow Thanks, that makes sense. Since I don't have a university degree yet, do you hav...

I would really recommend just getting a stable, unrelated job as @vast shoal suggested.

You're going to have a very hard time consistently landing freelancer work. You don't really have a track record currently, AI means non-technical people can get further by themselves without needing to outsource work, even when they do need to outsource it's a race to the bottom on freelancing sites (including against people in places with a much lower CoL, meaning they can undercut you), and it takes a tremendous amount of time touting for work.

People come in here every day asking about freelancing, because it feels accessible. That accessibility means there's a tremendous amount of competition, and a resultant downward pressure on prices.

finite meadow
# solid parcel I would really recommend just getting a stable, unrelated job as <@1818037482622...

I understand your concerns about generic freelancing, but I’m not just building simple landing pages. I’m working on niche areas like Solana data tools and backend automation with Python/Docker. I believe specialized skills have a different market than the 'race to the bottom' you mentioned. I’m still aiming for stable roles, but I'd rather build my experience in tech than in an unrelated field.

solid parcel
finite meadow
lunar glen
solid parcel
pine orbit
#

can someone tell me how to learn python free im a beginner

vast shoal
inner wrenBOT
fallen escarp
#

and then after that get start on some books

pine orbit
errant thicket
vast shoal
# pine orbit ty

I would definitely recommend any of the resources in the embed above rather than bro code.

dull belfry
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I need guidance 😞

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Feel like am just wasting my time at university it's been like 2 years since i made any exciting project

I mean i have made few websites and stuff over the last 2 years but its not that impressive

I am waiting for my university to get over so i can really upskill

true harness
#

nothing stops you from upskilling right now

dull belfry
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I mean am learning in a sense but most it are theory which i hope comes into use when i make projects which i haven't tried to make a good one

dull belfry
#

Did you all actively made projects while in uni applying theory you learnt in university

true harness
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of course. that's the best way to learn: going past coursework and to more interesting, deeper topics

vast shoal
dull belfry
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I always plan to do that starting of every semester i somehow don't get time

vast shoal
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Either my own projects or going above and beyond with coursework projects

dull belfry
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Our semester is like 4 months with 1-2 months for exam

pure raft
pure raft
icy pagoda
pure raft
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There is finite consumption of code productivity by the public to be economically beneficial to these companies, and while having more productivity matters in the sense that you want to win over your competitors audience to a degree it’s logarithmic in the upper echelon of where these companies are at, I think it’s obvious

#

If that wasn’t the case you would basically never have layoffs affect engineers because having more code = more productivity = more capital gains = we can hire more = more code = more productivity = ….

icy pagoda
pure raft
#

Look don’t get me wrong I still think jevons paradox holds true when times are good, but when companies are trying to stay afloat while basically every other company in the stock market is fighting for its life, if you make productivity gains you are going to want to lean up and lay people off, it sucks. I wish they wouldn’t offshore either that would fix a boatload of issues too

open ivy
tired spear
#

@dusty fulcrum have you ever thought of investing in a startup as in starting one yourself?

pure raft
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it's so hard to not despair sometimes with all of this

wary summit
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hello CS majors
is it normal to take 5 years to do a B.S in CS
should I do B.A instead if I can do it in 4 years instead?

true harness
#

it is not normal, but it is not unusual

dusty fulcrum
dusty fulcrum
peak halo
smoky quest
# wary summit hello CS majors is it normal to take 5 years to do a B.S in CS should I do B.A i...

Optimize for your 40 years long career, not for 1 year less or more of education if it can prepare you better and make you a stronger engineer.
As a side note, BA vs BS has far more impact than 4 vs 5 years. Different countries have different education models, some people might have taken a break, some others will have switched majors or just study in the evening/part-time. So duration can be quite different from candidate to candidate.

solid parcel
pure raft
# solid parcel "Finite consumption of code productivity" is doing a lot of work without much su...

lol what do you mean, of course it's finite code consumption. users consume the service that the code generates, and you aren't getting more users if you have more code, the same amount of user is going to use xyz service past some threshold whether they have 1 feature or 100 features. you arent creating more demand by creating more code, and youre thinking that code consumption and even demand in general is more important for companies than managing cost. managing cost is the single most important metric to these companies next to stock price, which is the publics way of evaluating how these companies manage cost in proportionate to their service

vast shoal
#

Or the same users might use your products more.

pure raft
vast shoal
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I'm not sure how you determine what the curve looks like.

solid parcel
pure raft
# solid parcel You're continually making unfounded, definitive statements and then claiming tha...

that's because it is obvious. if i'm someone who uses gmail or whatever service for 6+ hours a day, no matter how much better they make gmail, for human reasons I'm probably not going to use gmail for more than the 6 hours i use it for. you scale that to a business company setting where workers are using services for 8 hours a day, when they leave work they aren't going to be looking to use that service for longer. said another way, demand on these services has a cap, early adopters hit the cap before everyone else, and eventually society hits the cap regardless of how good the service is.

#

and so if you have one team of engineers using ai or whatever uphold that during times of economic hardship, the company is looking for cost cutting to lay off as many as they can while still maintaining daily operating procedure. demand is not going to eclipse that fact that the company has to keep hiring in order to still function

smoky quest
#

You can also take that core technology and apply it to other segments

pure raft
#

you can

i think given the financial state of things right now, companies are happy with the current demand, and want to lay off as many as they can to cut cost while satisfying that demand

i think that aspect is lost on an extremely large amount of engineers on these discords and internet communities

smoky quest
#

I wouldn't say they are happy with the current demand. A basic idiom in economic is that if a company doesn't grow, it dies.
However:

  • they must have an AI strategy and the companies who do are rewarded
  • AI is expensive
  • There is a push to be more efficient with ARR/engineer

The latter sometimes being pushed for without proof either due to the push from the first point

solid parcel
smoky quest
#

Also to note the current uncertainty in the business world would make some companies hesitate to invest now.

pure raft
smoky quest
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yeah that's fair. See where the wind blows before taking on more risk

pure raft
# solid parcel Again, you're just speculating here and then taking a pompous tone as if you hav...

what, actually, do you disagree with in what I'm saying? you think if a company keeps making better and better products everyone is going to drop everything and go with that company? if coke is that much better people will stop drinking pepsi forever? I'm saying there eventually is a hard limit on demand, because there aren't infinite people using technology, so obviously it can't scale infinitely, especially with where ai cost is (now and probably in the future)

this notion of just get more code and your company will be better is coping. i believed it before, but it's just false and it's obvious because companies are laying off engineers and offshoring like it's crazy. if stanford cs grads are having a problem, the companies don't care about code.

pure raft
dusty fulcrum
# peak halo can you elaborate on what you mean by "no one will care about your degree"? I do...

I mean when it comes to getting a first job in software development the difference between the various flavors of CS degree are not going to matter as much as "did you get a degree" and "can you actually program". The longer your career goes the less important it is. A math BA with 4 years of python programming is not going to struggle much vs a specific CS degree with similar experience if they have appropriate skills.

smoky quest
pure raft
smoky quest
#

already seeing some signs. We had multiple candidates getting multiple offers

pure raft
smoky quest
#

So it comes down to having a job VS the same job

dusty fulcrum
smoky quest
#

yeah, it's a skill like anything. If you don't exercise it, you lose it.
Focusing on challenging jobs and growth can be a good way to retain that. Plus what matters is the ability to be willing to learn and not be afraid of dealing with more complex/abstract topics.

But in the end, we shouldn't take anything for granted. For instance it happens a lot for native speakers to loose the ability to speak their native tongues after moving countries and not really speaking their mother tongue

wanton crescent
#

hi guys, which is better, a general bachelor’s degree or a professional bachelor’s degree?

#

for someone who wants to be a SWE

peak halo
wanton crescent
smoky quest
peak halo
#

I don't have an ulterior motive for asking. In my lexicon, a "professional degree" is a juris doctor or a doctor of medicine. I don't know why someone would ask about a "professional bachelors" in any context, CS or otherwise.

dusk basin
#

I think the most accurate answer would be to look at job listings in france, and see if a majority specify what you mean by "professional bachelors"

#

also, while I am here, I wanted to ask:
As a software engineering student, how relevant would knowing data engineering be in a contexts of regular backend engineering, and a ML/AI engineering roles in industry? I know to a limited capacity that they are relevant, but how deep I should look for the desired role, I don't know. I am in college, about to hit the job market

peak halo
smoky quest
dusk basin
peak halo
smoky quest
distant pecan
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Hello as someone who is already proficient in low level systems programming I was looking to make a shift to AI/ML since I see a lot of SWE jobs going out of the job market. I am currently a senior in HS and was wondering if I should pivot my studies from Comp Sci to Data science in order to adapt to the market?

smoky quest
#

In this case, the "general bachelor" would be in the context of continuing for a masters. A "professional bachelor" is if you want a way out. It's also super popular for people who did a 2 year degree and want a quick extra year.
It's tailored for getting quickly into the professional world, but is also seen as lower

dusk basin
# peak halo there are no clean lines in technology careers. there's no way to definitively s...

I think its more accurate to ask, "is it a possibility that I'll be tasked to create data infrastructure such as ETL pipelines, have to do data modeling for DBMS systems like postgres, and know how to deploy these systems into production? Or is it a reasonable that there will be dedicated teams for these structures, and I should only focus on SWE activities if I am in these roles"

smoky quest
#

Even admission can be different between the two

smoky quest