career-advice

[jade pelican]

do it

[marsh sage]

but what could u say about modeling and simulation, i heard simulation and that need python because of need IA

[barren lotus]

python is a very good language to learn for simulation

[marsh sage]

okay, glad to heard i havent waste my time

[barren lotus]

this is a simulation of particles travelling through some tissue. written in python, plotted with matplotlib

each of the lines you see here are infrared photons travelling through the tissue

[marsh sage]

looks like a php person did that

[barren lotus]

php?

[marsh sage]

doctorate, is that correct? english is not my first language

[barren lotus]

it's way below doctorate

they teach you the formula you just have to write it in code

[marsh sage]

well i will have u on mind

[barren lotus]

you can find me on this server lets keep it out of DMs

[marsh sage]

to resume i still need to finish with python but by the way I come here to get a teacher/book, something to really learn python

[barren lotus]

try this website https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ it's widely recommended here, and i have taken a look through

[marsh sage]

The cover reminds me of old books like Golden Chemistry.

[marsh sage]

by the way, it would be really nice if u could see something about michael levin and his work to really mmmm see if we are doing this right, thx for the help

[vernal shuttle]

I'm a backend developer with about 1 year of experience, primarily working with Django and Python-based frameworks. I'm currently at a crossroads trying to decide between two career paths: DevOps/Cloud or Applied AI (working with agents, LLMs, etc.).
I'm leaning more toward the DevOps/Cloud route for a few reasons. My concern is that the AI boom might settle down in the next 1-2 years, leading to a saturated job market in that space. On the other hand, DevOps and cloud skills seem like they'll always be in demand regardless of what technology trends come and go. Plus, DevOps naturally complements my existing backend skills, which would make me a more well-rounded and hireable engineer.
What would you do if you were in my position?

[smoky quest]

None of this matter.
Focus on your skills as an engineer and do not try to be a one trick pony

If you want a more specific guidance, prioritize what you vibe the most with and go from there

[vernal shuttle]

I've tried both and feel cloud/devops to be more intresting. So I'm more inclined toward that way.

[smoky quest]

sounds like a great plan!

Though be aware there is far less development in that path

and if you want to go back to a development position, you would have to work harder to prove your skills

[vernal shuttle]

I'm thinking of it as a complement to my backend role. Improving on my backend knowledge and adding devops/cloud to it.

[smoky quest]

why would future employers care?

[vernal shuttle]

I've seen roles requesting cloud experience for senior backend roles, so that was my reasoning behind it

[smoky quest]

future employers will have a team for backend and a team for cloud/devops.

so they will ask themselves where you fit the best. Given you spent 2 years in a cloud/devops team, that must be where you fit best

if you want to be a backend dev with some cloud knowledge, look for a backend dev position where you do get to experience some cloud knowledge

[vernal shuttle]

Yeah , this is what I want, like an opportunity to learn while being mainly a backend dev

[smoky quest]

great!
So don't go for other roles than that

[solid parcel]

You're right that cloud is extremely commonly requested. You can 100% find dev roles that will give you that exposure and help you build your skills. Be wary of roles listed as cloud engineer positions- there's nothing inherently wrong with them, but they tend to lean far more toward the ops/infrastructure side of things rather than development work. Sounds like backend engineer or DevOps engineer positions will be your best bet (and only some of the latter, given the term is used to mean everything from 'Dev who understands CI/CD', though to 'infra engineer who can also write a pipeline'. The amount of hardcore dev work involved can vary wildly!)

For another example of how nebulous skills like 'cloud' can be misleading, see the distinction between the CKA and the CKAD. Operating and maintaining clusters, vs deploying workloads to them... Different skillsets for different roles, but both fall under the same broad bucket of Kubernetes.

[vernal shuttle]

oh ohkay , thanks for the detailed answer. I was thinking of taking the Kode kloud premium for a year and learn all the devops/cloud from their labs and courses. I think they do cover a broad variety of topics, once I understadn them then i can make a better choice on what to move forward with

[solid parcel]

KodeKloud is great.

[vernal shuttle]

Thanks for advice, have you personally used ith?

[solid parcel]

Yup, couple of years back now

Oof, actually more like 3 at this point 😁

[vernal shuttle]

oh whoa, that' cool ! can you guide me on how to use it 😅 ?

Do we just need to pick a path devops/cloud engineer and then keep following that until done?

[solid parcel]

I just dipped into whatever was beneficial to me at the time. Primarily, that was Linux and Kubernetes in my case. I'd work out what your goal is (e.g. to get into a certain role, to develop your knowledge with a particular tool or approach etc.) and work backwards from there. That should help give you some clarity on what is worth prioritising.

One piece of advice I'd give if you're wanting to gain cloud knowledge is to learn one cloud. They implement the same concepts, but in pretty different ways at points (IAM is a pertinent example). You're best off going deep into one platform rather than spreading yourself thin across multiple. I'd opt for AWS or Azure as they're the largest, with GCP in a fairly distant third place.

[vernal shuttle]

understood! Thanks for the advice !

[vestal hedge]

Do you think its any good to seek for job opportunities on X, mostly for tech, it doesn't has to be coding particularly.

[solid parcel]

Not sure I'm following the question, do you mean X as in the social media platform?

[vestal hedge]

Yes, twitter

[solid parcel]

Can't see any harm in it- people certainly post about job opportunities on social media. That said in terms of RoI on your time, a purpose-built site like LinkedIn is likely a much better bet.

[vestal hedge]

LinkedIn is like 50% blogs

[solid parcel]

X is 50% dogwhistles and memes, at least on LinkedIn there's a dedicated pane just for job searching.

[white relic]

Several, maybe most of our hires in the last couple years have come from linkedin.

(small company in the US, not a big tech area, for context)

[solid parcel]

I've had a lot of opportunities come my way simply by existing on the site and having recruiters reach out, even when I'm not actively looking for a role

[white relic]

yeah that does happen, but over the course of my career I've found recruiters reaching out to be far more annoying in the 99% of time I am (happily) employed than useful in the 1% of time I could actually use their services

maybe 95/5 but still

[solid parcel]

Ha, that ratio seems about right 😆

Fair few recruiters reaching out offering meaningfully less than I'm on currently, alongside a few decent ones like HRT, AWS and so on.

Though on that HRT one, it would have been nice if they'd opened with the need to relocate to Singapore within a year 🙃

[vestal hedge]

you talking about those people from india who reachout.

[near ocean]

For HRT money i'd relocate to the moon if they wanted me to

[solid parcel]

£200,000 - £300,000 was the range they threw out. Which I know is accurate, a colleague of mine went to a similar role with them last year and was on that kind of money. Work life balance actually sounds decent, if something comes up in London once I'm through my Master's, I'd consider them.

[vestal hedge]

what is hrt?

[near ocean]

Hudson River Trading

[solid parcel]

Hudson River Trading or Hormone Replacement Therapy, take your pick 😁

[vestal hedge]

300k thats some good sh it

[solid parcel]

£ rather than $, too

[near ocean]

Its an elite quant firm so yea it kinda has to pay

[solid parcel]

It would be doing systems engineering, infrastructure and reliability work if I went to them

[vestal hedge]

by the way, anyones has job offers?

[near ocean]

What do you mean

[vestal hedge]

like i'm seeking for a job

[near ocean]

Youre not going to find one here, this isnt a job board

[vestal hedge]

who knows

[near ocean]

I know

[subtle heart]

(Who is HRT?)

[solid parcel]

Hudson River Trading. A high frequency trading firm.

[mint basin]

how do i get started with python as a student

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz!

[olive crown]

From Nigeria

[solid parcel]

I'm in the UK, where did Nigeria come from? 😂

[olive crown]

Came from Africa 😂😂

[gilded island]

Some time ago, after reading several accounts of freelancers having a good experience with Upwork, I decided to try and re-enter the freelance market and enjoy some of the freedoms, and even adventure, that it offers. I signed up about two months ago.

I wasn't even unhappy or hesitant to pay a membership fee, as well as buy extra Contacts, which seemed quite a necessity given the cost of submitting proposals.

Since I joined I have received several invitations to submit proposals, and the work availability looks quite good.

However, Upwork are sanctioning me because my South African ID document is a booklet, the older form of ID in this country. No matter how I try, and I have tried many, many times, to capture a photo of my ID that meets Upwork's requirements, I have not been successful.

Please note that in the same time span, several other orgs have gone out of their way to help me with verifying my ID using a photo of my ID booklet. When their automated systems could not process it, they verified it manually, and I'm sure the cost of that didn't bankrupt them.

Not so with Upwork. I have used their "Contact Us" features for help when trying to verify my ID about three times now, and each time they have responded quite quickly, telling me they cannot help me until my ID has been automatically verified by their system.

Yet the help I've asked for is because I am unable to get their system to verify my ID. So they are straight out telling me, "Tough luck, we have your money that you paid us to help you, and we honestly plain refuse to help you, even though we are quite capable of doing so manually!".

We can't manually verify your ID until we've automatically processed that, but our systems are incapable of doing it automatically.

[balmy mural]

Hello fellow Saffa. I'm surprised you're still using an ID book and not a card. Government originally wanted to phase them out by 2022, but that's been postponed. Current date they're aiming for is 2029. You should probably look into getting a smart ID. You can get them via some bank branches if you don't want to deal with Home Affair queues

Should just take around 2-3 weeks to issue the ID card

[gilded island]

Hey there. Yea, it's just something that's never pressed in on me as a priority until Upwork. I fully intend starting the process this week, thanks.

[vestal hedge]

where to find jobboard?

[open ivy]

Strange to think that there is no sure strategy to get a job. Way too many stories of people trying everything and failing.

One thing that keeps me going on my networking and portfolio strategy is thinking: If I do it and fail, vs if I don't try at all, where will I be? Not doing anything meaningful would be such a waste, let me at least try my best!

[smoky quest]

why would there be a sure strategy?

There is never such a thing as a 100% sure strategy

[open ivy]

Yes. That is one reason why mass-applying is so hard on people's mental health. With my strategy the failure scenarios, while not great, are still very preferable to doing nothing at all. So it boosts my mental health instead.

[vestal hedge]

fast apply all vacanies

[open ivy]

What is "fast apply"?

This tool? https://fastapply.co/

[fervent sandal]

Hello I was wondering about To make fiverr things but my skill is basic coding which idk what is it

[open ivy]

I agree that AI generally works well for spamming mass applications out, given how tedious and repatative this is. But not sure which tools work.

I just don't like mass spam in the first place...

[open ivy]

It's difficult to make a quick buck coding on Fiverr or similar platforms with basic skills because programming is very non fungible.

Its worth a try but you will likely be screaming into the void.

[open ivy]

Aren't there data engineer enthousast Discord servers to join?

What about teaming up and doing a Kaggle competition?

Is there any dataset that you feel you could design better algorythims on and put said analysis in your portfoleo?

[analog sun]

@spiral seal your message was removed for soliciting for job offers

[carmine radish]

Hi guys, i want to switch to IT and started learning python enjoyed the same learned till OOPS, Magic methods etc went so far as per the tutorial but the next few are related to GUI using PyQt5 etc. As I want to make the switch quick and not live in tutorial hell I thought of going for automation QA type roles and was thinking of learning the following: requests, API, selenium, beautiful soup, Pytest instead of going on with the tutorial path. And also thinking of going through automate with python book hoping it would help? Any ideas, suggestions or advices would be very much appreciated.

[open ivy]

It takes a lot longer than 6 seconds to differentiate AI (with a reasonably competition user behind it) and human writing.

But with the right prompts, engineered to be hostile to AI, it is a night and day difference IF you take the time to read the response somewhat carefully.

So the whole "six seconds per resume" thing means that they will be discarding a lot of well-written non-AI applications.

[smoky quest]

Most AI applications are badly written

I see a lot more human applications that were written by chatgpt and thus look too much like AI applications. But either way, they are terrible resumes

[open ivy]

Yes. Once 30 seconds or so pass you start to sniff it out.

With a bit of care I could fool you for up to 30 seconds with AI content. But it would be trash content and by 60 seconds you would throw my resume in the trash.

The concern is that if they throw stuff out at the 6 second mark they are missing a lot of human content. Because 6 seconds is too short to sniff out AI for those who actually know how to use AI.

The corollary is that we all should slow down the flow rate of information into the brain when we consume media. Doing so would stop 90+% of fake news in it's tracks.

[smoky quest]

you are making too many unsupported assumptions

[modest kraken]

Would you recommend using ai tools for resumes?

[smoky quest]

I would recommend avoiding ai tools for resumes

[open ivy]

I was going by my own expirence. Do you have a citation for how long it takes people to sniff out AI slop? It takes me a few moments because AI is good at the emotional feel of things and logic takes time.

[modest kraken]

Through what sort of pathways do people find jobs that actually respond to them

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by own experience? How many hundreds of resumes do you review per week?

[modest kraken]

I can do it by the first one or two sentences

[open ivy]

Quite a bit of social media AI slop, although less now that I am fighting back my addiction...

Was I wrong about "six seconds per resume"? That does sound like an urban legend. 30 seconds seems more resonable and that should give enough time to sniff out AI.

[open ivy]

People who know how to work with AI can make it harder to do this. But they still cannot replace genuine human content.

[smoky quest]

there are tools and techniques to instantly reject a bunch of them for instance.
There are bullet points that also make it obvious.

So the 6s doesn't matter in the context of applying

[open ivy]

What about AI answers to the application questions? Even if the resume is human-made.

[smoky quest]

Some questions will disqualify you on the spot if relevant. But that applies to everyone

[open ivy]

I see your point. If I understand what you are saying:

The 6 seconds or auto-tools etc will screen out obvious show-stoppers. Such as people who have no programming on thier resumes. Or foreigners for domestic-only roles. This isn't really at the point where you are detecting AI slop.

For those that pass this test you can take 30 or 60 seconds with your own eyes to give enough of a look to decide if there is enough of a skills overlap to consider them further, and that is also enough time to detect AI content (even better-done AI content).

If they pass both screens they move forward.

So the "6 seconds per resume" is misleading. It is more like "ATS tool to throw out the absolute trash, then 30-60 seconds per resume". So "gaming the ATS" isn't really that important.

[modest kraken]

Does not putting or putting my ethnic and gender background on the application change anything

[smoky quest]

You can detect AI slop at the beginning too

[open ivy]

If the prompt engineer does a decent job it is not as easy. But for thoughtless spam tools yes you are right.

[smoky quest]

But remember there is a considerable overlap between the best AI resume and the worst candidates

[modest kraken]

does keyword spam actually help you in your resume

[open ivy]

AI resumes make less sense than AI for answering the questions. Because tailoring the resume is more about ommission of less relevent facts for the particular role, which isn't really an "AI" task in the LLM generative sense.

But some job apps have tonnes of seemingly pointless questions and personality tests etc and cover letters that are of dubious importance. So this is a tedious task where AI may have a role.

[smoky quest]

it might just get you rejected

or come up if there is a specific query. It's a toss up

[smoky quest]

I only care that what is received reflects the candidates we are interviewing. AI tools don't do that

[modest kraken]

I've heard stuff like "you need keywords to make it past the ats", do you have any insight on that

[smoky quest]

ATSes are just like a fancy excel spreadsheet. There is no automatic filter beyond what people might code themselves or the specific questions in the application (ex: do you need a visa? yes/no).
I can't even search based on keywords in the ATS I use.
The most I have seen is the ability to do a search based on keywords.

So if the company and recruiter use an ATS that has keyword search, your resume might pop up. But if it's still irrelevant or your resume/experience does not match, then they still have no reason to call you.
I have implemented filters that will also automatically reject candidates with any attempt at gaming the system, including keywords

[modest kraken]

do you know if using keyword search is common among recruiters?

[open ivy]

Here is how I would recommend an "apply at scale" strat IF you want to do so:

1. Make a resume twice as long as needed, it will be cut down later. Get lots of human help and build it carefully. This is good to have generally even for other job-hunting strats. For me I really need to build my website first to give my the "forest from the trees" viewpoint needed to make the resume good. Do not use AI here.
2. Look for hidden gems, companies that are badly SEO optimized but have cool ideas and are in your field. AI for the job search is a possibility if you can control it enough. Applying on the site is generally better than job boards.
3. Use automation and "simple AI" to fill in the tedious questions and workaday accounts. Think Selenium for grunt work like filling in GPA, which college etc. Have the systems you use sense anomalies so that you can manually deal with it. Like a factory where 90% is automatic but once in a while the robot arm gets stuck.
4. Use keywords from the job description to shorten the resume and by doing so tailor it. Once you get good, you may want to use python-docx to automate the process a bit.
5. Use templates with constrained AI to generate cover letters and other questions to answer. Like an inpainting tool or copilot, you don't want it to do everthing from scratch but instead want it to make smaller adjustements to match the questions at hand.
6. TEST every tool you use! You need to make sure the output is good enough and as @smoky quest said "what is received reflects the candidates we are interviewing" (and in a positive light).
7. Make sure your mental health stays up, as sending out mass-applications is very hard on it!

BUT I really don't like this strategy in general! It's like saying "what car should I buy" for San Francisco? My answer is to use MUNI and walk instead. I will occasionally send out an application when I stumble on a very good match, but my staples are networking and portfolio projects.

[smoky quest]

No one can tell you that. There are top 4-5 ATS systems with various capabilities.
And different recruiters will have different preferences

[modest kraken]

gotchu

i think networking yields way more than applying through conventional means no

[vestal hedge]

lol dint knew that something like this exist. i actualy meant easy apply on linkedin

[solid parcel]

This is hugely flawed reasoning. By definition, if you failed to 'sniff out' AI written work, you wouldn't realise you'd failed to identify it. You'd merely think you'd correctly categorised a human piece of work.

[open ivy]

I generally agree with @smoky quest that ATS's are not some black box that is about clever tricks like social media algorithms to break. It is for filtering out (and otherwise tracking contact, follow up, dates, etc) obvious failures, which are most applications, and then humans do the rest. Like international for domestic only etc.

AI interviewers are stupid in my opinion, but I think those are rare and companies are realizing they suck.

Getting seen by recruiters as @modest kraken mentioned is somewhat of a different ball game. Because the Algorythims are in play muc more, where popularity matters. But simple methods like keyword spam do not work because been there done that with the SEO cat-and-mouse game. You would simply divide the importance by the total number of keywords to block that silly strategy.

Social media is so unfair that I think it is better to have personal websites as your main "online visiblity" content. There are less people browsing such sites BUT there are less people making them and more oppurtunity to actually make a good site.

[smoky quest]

For 3. There might be ways to detect and reject candidates based on that
Same thing for 5.

[open ivy]

I am saying it takes me about 30 seconds or so, I cannot do it in 6 seconds.

[open ivy]

Does it matter if AI fills out the number 3.75 for the GPA or if a human does?

[smoky quest]

It does matter when the people automating it are for the most part just spam/AI

[open ivy]

If they are just spam wouldn't the filters be about the content they produce and not whether Selenium was used for entering the hometown of the college they went to?

So if the cover letter is trash because they used too much AI then reject it.

[smoky quest]

I have no reason to care about these candidates as:

• They are a small pool
• If they have to go through the steps to automate application to find a job, they are unlikely to be good candidates anyway
• If they are just automating the application, it's not like they care that much about the position

[open ivy]

I think you are hitting on (one of many parts as to) why mass-applying is a crappy strategy. There is no such thing as mass applying AND also caring.

For my networking and portfoleo I care plenty. Sometimes, in a sense, too much: once I saw someone's mental health drop because they were being laid off and then they felt I was too nosy with my questions about wellness (I just wanted to help them!). Or when I talk and talk and talk about my new physics simulation idea for fluid dynamics. Regardless, authenticity is plenty easy to come by for this strat.

Auto-rejecting users of Selenium for filling out minor details is a human proof-of-work. So is networking and portfolios, proving that I do care about others and am passionate about tech.

[fiery cape]

Python> c++ in my opinion

[solid parcel]

This isn't a 'learning opportunity', this is a low effort beg for free labour.

[stiff plume]

Haha lol

I used to work on similar things! Its passion you won't understand

[barren lotus]

<@&831776746206265384> recruitment

[solid parcel]

So passionate you couldn't even be bothered to write your own recruitment post without having an AI vomit it out for you...

[stiff plume]

Lol 😆 @solid parcel true but not the truth

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 954332064226873404 We don't allow recruiting or job seeking on this server. See the channel description

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @stiff plume.

[stiff plume]

Sure thanks for the warn 🙂 ! Will buy python company and increase your salary

[fringe sphinx]

I get all the lemons I can eat here.

[stiff plume]

😆😆

Let's go on regular chat ! It's for career discussion! Be sure to use specific channels for their specific use @fringe sphinx

[icy pagoda]

I do feel plenty of recruiters are unable to tell the difference now

some of my friends created a complete pipeline to LLM generate resumes with latex to apply in a lot of places, they ended up being very successful in their search including some big name companies

of course it was not successful just due to AI but using AI doesn't get you instantly rejected in a lot of places especially with how good they're getting

[trail goblet]

haii who wants to talk

[open ivy]

The opinions of how to get a job very widely and AI is the latest debate.

[trail goblet]

liek i stayed up a full night trying to make a terminal for

C and C++ along with go and rust

[barren lotus]

pick a side and die on that hill lmao

[open ivy]

How exactly did they tailor the resume? You would have to feed AI the information and the description and hope for the best.

It feels like subset-tailorization is good enough where the AI can only omit information?

[trail goblet]

i do cybersecurity but theres no one on that chat rn

i use like metasploit and wireshark allat

[icy pagoda]

yeah exactly that. had a structured input containing all their projects/acheivements etc and scraping/manual job role expectations file with a ton of prompt engineering

i don't know the specific details but yeah, it worked fairly well for them

[open ivy]

I would want the AI to individually rank each bullet point match to the description and then I use a Python script to drop the irrelevant points below a certain rank.

That constrains it enough that it won't make slop.

[icy pagoda]

you could do that although i don't think the bullet points were human written here either

it was mostly all LLM generated building on some json file for data

[open ivy]

Since the bullet points is a one-time task makes sense to human do it?

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is the main programming chat on this server

[icy pagoda]

you might want to rephrase them to match the role

so, it also makes sense for it to be dynamic

[smoky quest]

yeah, you would not believe how many resumes have bullets full of "wrote backend API based on requirements with tests for better readability and reliability, and improved scalability by 30%"
This is just garbage

[barren lotus]

oof what would be better then

[smoky quest]

write stuff that makes sense. If your friend was to claim that to you as an achievement, would you be impressed?

[icy pagoda]

lmao that's an issue with a lack of content to write for the most part or when the LLM doesn't have any of the specifics of your work

[barren lotus]

if my friend were to claim that they wrote "backend API based on requirements with tests" i would think they are competent

[smoky quest]

Because no one else write APIs based on requirements?

[barren lotus]

(if i claimed that to my friends they would be utterly confused)

[smoky quest]

Based on what are they supposed to write said APIs?

It's like saying you cooked with ingredients

[barren lotus]

how do you spice it up though

most work is boring stuff isnt it?

[smoky quest]

you are specific about what you did

[smoky quest]

If you didn't do anything interesting with your time, that's a problem in the first place

[barren lotus]

like, most people arent refactoring the entire codebase every month

[smoky quest]

if you don't have an impact, then why were you employed?

[barren lotus]

there is always busy work to do

user requesting for some feature, user discovering some bug to fix, etc.

[smoky quest]

so you are saying you could be talking about some of the cool/interesting features? About some bug that required to dive into the kernel?

[icy pagoda]

just add the specifics. "created backend API" doesn't help. "what feature, what was technical about implementing it" etc still work
even if it's just a user requesting for some feature

[smoky quest]

You can even specify which area/service, like maybe you were working on the registration service

[barren lotus]

wrote backend API to send a signal to other users to display a "hand raised" symbol on the user's video stream? what?

[smoky quest]

And don't make up bullshit like improving by 30% the scalability. That doesn't mean anything

[icy pagoda]

what did you work with to do that. did you learn something from it or was it just boring implementations?

[barren lotus]

that one is understandable enough

[smoky quest]

how do you define it?

[barren lotus]

it's just a graphql call

[barren lotus]

no, i meant it's understandable in the sense that i agree with you

[smoky quest]

Programming, it's just typing on a keyboard
Zehata, 2025

[icy pagoda]

i'd love "typed on a keyboard" for a programming cv for the memes lol

[barren lotus]

like, the most interesting stuff i've ever done in the company is to resolve the debouncing issue that no one was able to diagnose for like 6 months

[icy pagoda]

but yeah, would a generic graphql call do the job? idk, just keep asking yourself questions which tell about the specifics

[barren lotus]

the rest is just "adding a button", "changing some text", "modified the layout of the startup page"

[icy pagoda]

that sounds like good content to add a point on

[barren lotus]

yea, basically what i did

[smoky quest]

There are two aspects to that problem:

• Don't trivialize what you did. It's a general problem people have and they need to work on how to brag better and realize what they did is not that easy
• If you truly did nothing interesting, then it's a sign you did not apply your time the best way. It's a common issue for people who just chill out for a few years and then struggle to find the next job since they have nothing to show for

[barren lotus]

if anything, it speaks to the poor observability of the app, in the sense that no one was able to detect the huge amount of traffic going back and forth between the client and the server due to this bug

[cobalt jolt]

Chat when is it too late to learn how to program for a career? I’m a junior studying EE and I noticed only knowing hardware limits my career opportunities and I want to pick up software but I’m rather intimidated. Is it too late for me?

[smoky quest]

It's never too late to learn programming

[smoky quest]

That is the problem of the candidate, not the recruiter

[cobalt jolt]

It’s just I’m going to go into the job market with no software internship role so wouldn’t it be impossible for me to get a job? Not that EE internships are any better rn in this job market

[barren lotus]

i dont think it's a very achievable goal of constantly doing something flashy though, a lot of times you are maintaining stuff, ensuring that stuff are working correctly, reading the Sentry logs of a complaining user

[barren lotus]

im not sure how that relates to my message

[smoky quest]

There is no shortage of candidates who work on interesting things ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[icy pagoda]

yeah you also don't shit on the company codebase while writing your CV lol

[barren lotus]

obviously i dont do that 💀

[smoky quest]

And every company has no shortage of interesting problems to work on

[peak halo]

There are careers that are more available to electrical engineers than to computer scientists. Have you confirmed that there are too many qualified applicants for EE positions relative to the number of positions?

[cobalt jolt]

I really want to go into robotics, but I suppose the recruiting season for EE is later than SWE

[barren lotus]

really? the most interesting problems in the companies i worked in are the business side, like trying to get more customers, trying to improve client sentiments, or trying to reduce the purchase cost of spare parts

[cobalt jolt]

I’m afraid if I don’t get an internship this summer it’ll be too late, would really appreciate some advice if any of you have robotics experience or any career advice in general!

I know it’s rather unreasonable for this all or nothing thinking however it is quite difficult to not be afraid of not having a job after studying hard for 4 years eeekk

[smoky quest]

Really. It might require some probing and being self starter though

Go around to your manager/teammates or even other employees and ask them what are some of the problems they wished the company worked on or addressed. People will come up with tons of problem

[barren lotus]

i mean yea i have done that, and solved them, but that's mostly in the second company

[smoky quest]

And then, you just mentioned issues with observability. Making sure that all the services have proper o11y with logging, metrics, tracing, that they flow correctly, that you have dashboards and alerts is huge

[barren lotus]

in the first company everything was tracked in the issue tracker already

[barren lotus]

well, it's a huge architectural change that i don't think i could have enacted alone

[smoky quest]

it's not a huge architectural change

[barren lotus]

oh now that i think about it, there was an episode where i wrote a bugfix for user debug information not getting flushed when logging out lol

i diagnosed it, opened an issue, fixed it, that's about it

[smoky quest]

Imagine if an olympic champion who won gold did it like you:

• I competed, got some reward and went home

[barren lotus]

xD i mean... that's technically the truth, but i get your point

[jade pelican]

how smart

[proud glacier]

@lusty flume don't post irrelevant things here

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> shitposting

[proud glacier]

What is the channel name? What makes you think this is the right place to shitpost?

[summer roost]

!pban 246999891975471115 low-effort troll

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @lusty flume permanently.

[jade pelican]

why

[summer roost]

They were trolling by posting random shitposts in the #career-advice channel.

[open ivy]

This is a good point and I am NOT good at this. Networking, writing up my portfolio projects, etc will make me better but it is very hard still.

My persuasion skills lag far behind my communication skills. The difference between inducing emotion and transferring understanding.

[modest kraken]

If I want to create a startup wdid

[smoky quest]

you are gonna have to give far more context than that

[modest kraken]

I’ve been working on this desktop app and I want to eventually market and sell it but I’m not sure really when to start doing that

[smoky quest]

have you figured out who might be your users? What solution it solves for them? How is your solution better than the existing?
Has anyone but you tried it?

[smoky quest]

Some parts are starting to be old, but https://www.amazon.com/dp/1118960874 is probably a good intro for you

[modest kraken]

I have a general idea of users and problem it solves, and afaik there’s no existing solutions but I’m sure there’s some that are being developed in parallel

I think main concern is that it’s not done, it’s very ux dependent so I need a lot of iteration on that

[smoky quest]

The build it and they will come approach doesn't work.
So you don't have an idea. You have an hypothesis.

Unless you validate your hypothesis, you might sink months of work in something where users may never come

[smoky quest]

users won't care about UX if it provides value

[modest kraken]

Wait wdym by that first sentence

[smoky quest]

https://samuelmullen.com/articles/startup-fallacies-if-you-build-it-they-will-come

I only checked the first paragraph. So I can't vouch for the rest

[modest kraken]

But I need a working product to iterate no?

[smoky quest]

no

some people just put out a fake website and see how many people register/sign up.
Some people start by interviewing potential users to learn about their problems and solutions, etc.

[modest kraken]

Oh

[smoky quest]

Basically, try to validate your hypotheses in the cheapest possible way. That's how you get the most bangs for your bucks

[modest kraken]

Guess I should start doing that

[smoky quest]

Imagine that talking with 10 people could save you 3 months of prototype? Wouldn't that be great?

[modest kraken]

Yep how do you find these ppl

[smoky quest]

And there is also a science to interview. Don't go tell them "if I build X, would you want it?"

[smoky quest]

go where they hang out. That entirely depend on your demographics and ICP

Once, I just pinged relevant people on linkedin

[modest kraken]

What should I be asking instead?

[smoky quest]

Imagine you are trying to make excel. You won't describe excel and ask them if they would like it.
Instead, you will ask them how they do their accounting, what is painful for them to do, etc.

Focus on the problem, not the solution. Your solution can change and mature as you learn more about the problem you want to solve. And you may discover other related problems

[modest kraken]

What if there’s a broad audience? Should I try to reach a subgroup first?

[smoky quest]

That would be a great problem to have.
you can always segment your audience and decide to focus somewhere first

[modest kraken]

Gotchu gotchu

[modest kraken]

Thanks a lot!

[smoky quest]

np. Startups are always fun!

[modest kraken]

I hope it’s fun lol

[jolly valley]

Hello fellow programmers. I'm a "new" programmer in python and after giving a month in a daily training and studying I find myself in a position where I can finally say that I can find solutions in problems that associate with my knowledge. Which is up to files(read/write/organise etc.), API, PyQt5. I've done some projects to enrich my portfolio and here comes the question. With this knowledge (for now), can I start freelancing? Is this the "correct" path to start with or is it better to apply for jobs in small businesses? Any opinion is welcome and thank you for your time spending reading this message

[wild grail]

I'm going to email the hr that accepted my invite . Shall I do it 🥲😺

Any advice ?

[wild salmon]

In what areas are you gonna work?

[open ivy]

I think AI replacing jobs is hyped up. Day to day work will change but Copilot is far from replacing me.

But AI can certainly break old job hunting strategies:

1. It can spam out so much slop it drowns out actual human applicants. This has gotten very out of hand. I address this by largely avoiding this strategy.

2. It makes people less trusting of each other. Makes networking harder. I address this by seeking communities that are more technical and less political.

3. The attention wars make it much harder to interact with people since they want to doomscrolling instead. I address this with in person events and online meetups that cater to people tired of being alone.

4. The algorithms create very high attention inequality. I address this by avoiding social media and using the "old style" internet.

5. It can be hard to tell that a portfolio is genuine human created at a quick glance. So it sows distrust. I will address this again by using "old style" internets that are less filled with AI spam. As well as having a block that provides progress snapshots.

If you are at a company peer pressure will force you to update your workflows. Which is often a good thing, as you will be pushed to take on new tools.

But if you are trying to get a job, there will be no such update-peer-pressure and you will tend to stick with old habits.

[vast shoal]

I don't really experience a lot of peer pressure to update my workflows at my job. We have knowledge sharing sessions where we exchange ideas about how to improve quality and productivity, but there's not a lot of pressure exactly. Wouldn't a forum like this channel work similarly for job searching strategies?

You can talk to other people who are looking for jobs, or people who are involved in recruiting, and exchange ideas about what companies are looking for and how to best present yourself, etc.?

[open ivy]

It does. But without actual co workers the pper pressure effect is less.

As an example, there are many stories of people sending out 1000+ apps and getting nothing. Why are they all stuck with such a bad strategy?

[near ocean]

Maybe its not the strategy, maybe theyre just not good enough

Spamming a CV at ads is not a surefire way of getting a job or even an interview

[vast shoal]

I guess both are possible factors affecting your likelihood of success.

You can undermine yourself with a bad CV or aiming for the wrong positions, or not networking enough, or in a bad way, etc. But it's also hard to imagine that you'd get an SWE job no matter what you do if you simply have no relevant experience or credentials.

[icy pagoda]

i'm fairly sure people sending out 1000+ apps normally have some form of automation they're using

so it's "no responses for not a lot of effort", which seems fairly normal

[open ivy]

It is a bad strategy because they learn nothing.

Networking and portfolio building actually builds skills that are relevant experience.

[near ocean]

Networking and portfolio take time and energy that most people dont have, we've been through this before

[open ivy]

Surprisingly, many don't. I mentioned automation to one person with a 1000+ number and he went quiet. Another said "welcome to the gulag".

[near ocean]

How long have you been on the market for a job, going by networking and portfolio work?

[open ivy]

I have been doing it for about 6 months. But it took a while to actually get effective and learning is ongoing.

[vast shoal]

(maybe they don't get hired because they're the kinda people who don't think to automate their application process)

[open ivy]

Yes which is stupid.

And we all can fall into traps.

[near ocean]

5 applications a day for 6 months is just under 1000 applications total, that doesnt sound like an outlandish number
You could even put in more effort in the 5 apps a day than you normally would

[open ivy]

People without time and energy to get a job, when they need a job, are in a bad situation no matter what strat they use. They would have to try their best to make the time and energy, fighting doomscrolling is a start.

[open ivy]

I will do highly targeted scientific computing apps once my website is better.

[near ocean]

Why do you have to wait for something to be done first? All this time you could be applying to 5 ads a day with a little bit more effort and you would be at 900 apps additional to whatever networking and portfolio work youre doing already

[icy pagoda]

do you think consistently applying 5 times a day for 6 months is realistic?

[near ocean]

Probably not for calibayzone, they have a specific niche they're targeting, but for the average dev yes

[open ivy]

Because there are not that many highly targeted scientific comp matches in the niche field and my website is garbage right now.

[near ocean]

5 applications a day is a very casual rate, its 900 apps in 6 months

[open ivy]

There are mental health issues I am improving as well... in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king if I can fight all the social media.

Once these are up I plan on 3-5 apps careful apps day if there are enough.

[icy pagoda]

finding 5 new job posts which you qualify for/would be fine doing everyday is a casual rate?

[near ocean]

Yes?

[icy pagoda]

it seems like a lot of effort to me ngl but yeah makes sense

[near ocean]

Where is the effort? Maybe im missing something
I can open linkedin now and find at least 5 ads i am qualified for and can apply to

[open ivy]

If you treat it like a daily ritual it will feel like less effort. When a Muslim prays they do not expect an immediate result and will not feel "soul crushed" if nothing happens.

The main effort would be sending out high quality apps that don't look like AI slop. If you start to feel like you are rushing to finish the process as fast as possible that is a red flag.

[icy pagoda]

oh makes sense, i don't apply on linkedIN much
iirc they simply need you press a button

[near ocean]

Why not? How do you find opportunities

[icy pagoda]

there are official hiring portals for a lot of companies
linkedIN often just links back to them anyways for a bunch of them

[near ocean]

Thats easy apply and you dont need to do that, you can just go to the company's career page

[icy pagoda]

oh, you do mean applying via the company's career page then

[near ocean]

I dont apply through linkedin, i just find the adverts there

[icy pagoda]

makes sense, it still seems a decent amount of effort ngl

[near ocean]

Its an aggregator of job adverts, im not hunting down individual companies to apply to

[tacit lion]

any chance there is a area im not seeing to like make a post looking for a dev team if not ill move along

[near ocean]

There is no channel to recruit people, no

[tacit lion]

okay later

[wild grail]

Having object is necessary in resume ?

Objective*

[near ocean]

no

some recruiters i've talked to suggested i have one, others suggested i dont, i would say opinion is split

[balmy mural]

Do you have anything worth adding in there?
For example, I never had one before, but next time I'm applying will be in a different country. So I'll be adding one to explain on what visa I am on and that I don't need a visa sponsorship

[native kettle]

Hey everyone 👋,
I’m planning to switch my job and have around 6 months to prepare. I’m looking for some guidance on how to get shortlisted by good companies and the best resources to practice so I can crack interviews.

I’m aiming for AI/ML Engineer or Java/Python Developer roles. I’ve got 6 months of work experience, and during this time I’ve:

Worked on LLM-based solutions, running models locally and using Gemini API to generate LLM-guided responses.

Used CrewAI and Generative AI to design intelligent automation pipelines and data-driven solutions.

Worked with the IKEA Enterprise – Data Analytics Team, where I:

Enhanced datasets and filled missing fields using LLMs,

Created DFV (Desirable, Feasible, Viable) scores, guardrails, and decision filters,

Built various charts and analytical dashboards that help in assessing workload placement and decision-making.

Built an end-to-end trading system in Java, where I:

Integrated WebSocket APIs for live market data,

Developed custom technical indicators and trading rules,

Worked under quantitative research to translate insights into optimized code,

Generated accurate trading signals, automated order placement via APIs, and produced performance metrics for evaluation.

I also have hands-on experience with Apache Flink, Kafka, Paimon, Node.js, and databases like MySQL and Oracle SQL, and I’ve worked on training ML models to improve prediction accuracy and overall performance.

Things have been quite tough lately, so I’d really appreciate any guidance, resources, or advice from you all 🙏
Thanks a lot in advance for your time and help! ❤️

Please DM 🙏🏻

[modest kraken]

Isn’t paimon a Genshin character

[near ocean]

Paimon is a demon king of hebrew origin but that's off topic to the channel of career discussion

[native kettle]

Yes paimon is a genshin character and I play the game dm id. In the database it is used for creating catalogs like it's the replica of the Amazon s3. If you are building a product and have no money for the Amazon server rental. You can test your catalogs and databases in the paimon minion. Later you can migrate to s3 easily.

[unique patio]

heyy anyone here who have some time to help me

[smoky quest]

it depends on the question

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> spam

[still condor]

!warn @vapid forge Do not advertise anything related to exchanging money on this server

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid forge.

[spice elm]

Heyy guys

I am overwhelmed of python. Every time I start trying to learn I get distracted and do smth else. I have experience with python and c++ for almost a year now. Is python really worth it for my future?

[gilded arrow]

I am overwhelmed of python.

Take it slower

Every time I start trying to learn I get distracted and do smth else.

Learn to do what's important to you, you can't do everything.

Is python really worth it for my future?

You make your future. It can be good to know Python in the future, but try to find a use for it now, like making a game or helping with your homeworks.

[vast shoal]

I personally think programming is very fun, and programming in Python is particularly fun. If you also think so, then I think Python is worth it just because you will have fun doing it. It might also become a useful skill for your life in general, because you can do a lot of useful things with it. Lastly, it's quite possible to make a career out of it.

[spice elm]

ooh

[sand hawk]

i have job/mindset question, i am (i believe) a high achiever, i focus 100% and want to produce high quality at high rates... that said my shop is not great, and some people are very lazy (spending a whole day with a team mate to fix something completely useless like a zoom call nickname) and paid better. now i'm tired of doing the legwork or fix the lazy guy bugs and manager never really took my case seriously and my only option is to coast more, to even the workload. but it makes me really sad.. has anyone ever felt like this ?

[worthy reef]

damn

[smoky quest]

If you are not learning and growing and want more, then why not look for another job?

[sand hawk]

there's a bit of fear (very few ads compared to few years ago), I applied but went nowhere so far

my dream would be to keep that job for safety, and work weekends as freelance for a better company

and i need to maintain my salary so switching to a more satisfying job with lower pay would be an issue (thanks for pitching in nonetheless)

[wild prairie]

Hi everyone.

Is it possible to be a Backend developer using Python?

[lilac yoke]

there are plenty popular of backend frameworks that use Python, and every cloud provider supports severless Python as well— so yes

I wouldn’t limit yourself to being a “backend developer” though, aim to be full stack

[wild prairie]

Okay thanks.
I've been trying to get like a course track or outline I can follow to achieve that end.
But most of them are JAVA or other programming languages

[sand hawk]

100%

[lilac yoke]

I don’t really like programming courses, they’re typically outdated and don’t really give you enough practice to do things on your own. Instead, skip the middleman and just try to make a full stack project, think of something neat you’ve always wanted made.

If you have a good idea of what app you want to create, this server is a great place to ask the how questions

[sand hawk]

@wild prairie you can try django tutorials, or the (maybe too old) flask megatutorial (https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world) and today there's fastapi to serve REST Api from whatever (nosql, sql, else)

[wild prairie]

Well to start working on those, I have to first learn a lot right? Besides I wrote a simple code for an expense tracker. Lol.

Can I share the GitHub link to the repo?

[wild prairie]

Aight
Thanks a lot. I'll check it out

[lilac yoke]

You’ll learn through creating the project

[wild prairie]

Alright...

Sooooo I built a simple expense tracker with Python. I’d love feedback on how I could structure the code better or make it more modular

https://github.com/Variant1740/Expense_Tracker/blob/main/Expense_tracker.py

[sand hawk]

it's very clean (kudos on that, often people create big unreadable mess) but very tiny in a way. a backend project will require to split the whole program in layers, the database part, the main logic part and then the encoding part. if you ever used sqlite or postgres with python that would be even better

[wild prairie]

Thankssss
I'll see to that.
Actually I'm still in the learning process...
🌚Not yet up to sqlite or post Gres yet.

Regardless, thanks for the feedback

[sand hawk]

good luck and have fun

[smoky bloom]

Scenario: You explain your situation and point out that at some point in your career you were sabotaged by 'a fu*k'. They look at you and explain that the issue now is that you won't get a job if you describe them as 'fucks'. How do you all call those '' then, profesionally?

[smoky quest]

why do you feel compelled to use expletives?

[smoky bloom]

Social exclusion in college/professional networking setting, type of situation. I wonder if there is a word that would make me look slightly better

[smoky quest]

ostracized?

[fringe sphinx]

Why would you even talk about them? Don't bring up negative things.

Never talk bad about past [managers | companies | coworkers] ever at interviews.

[smoky bloom]

Hopefully I will never get to a point where it's impossible to explain a type of setback without negative(s). Will keep in mind.

[vapid jay]

which is better.... getting a job at walmart or going back to college for math/cs degree

[fringe sphinx]

It's situational. If you're in an interview, stay away from negatives and bad experience. Stick with: learning experience, positive stories, etc. Even when they ask for a negative story.

That doesn't mean never talk about it. Just not in an interview.

[true harness]

why not both

[tardy escarp]

Hi guys, I am new here, really glad to meet all of you.

[open ivy]

The only way I could keep a low skill job is if I find energy to also keep working on my portfolio projects. Ideally by sneaking in a bit of daydreaming and note taking during the shift and then implementing my ideas when I get home.

If I couldn't continue portfolio building my mental health would eventually fail and I would be unable to work or do anything without a "hard reset".

So which low skill stopgap jobs are best? Ones you can commute to without driving to avoid this expensive, time consuming, stressful, and dangerous task. Ones with less angry customers are better unless you have thick skin or good social skills. Regular shifts that end at predictable times.

But at the end of the day it's your decision what and if you apply for.

[balmy spade]

Thinking of a job as low skill and not seeing the valuable skills you can learn or grow while doing them is a restrictive mindset itself.

If you can go to school without needing a job, that's the path I'd take (and I loath school). If you can swing both, that's the next best option. If you just take the job, never stop moving forward to your goals.

[solid parcel]

Yes and no... Some roles are time sinks which leave you exhausted and with little opportunity to develop transferable skills. Warehouse work comes to mind, for example... Sure there are some skills you can develop, but the work is largely monotonous, the ceiling is low and it's still demanding enough to leave you with little capacity for development outside of work.

A growth mindset is great, but there's a reality to the fact that not all jobs are made equal when it comes to development opportunities.

[balmy spade]

Having worked those roles for more than 25 years I completely understand their reputation. There are, however, always transferable skills. I haven't found a job that didn't have at least one. Sometimes it took being somewhere else for me to realize it. But that's just my experience with dozens of jobs. Mileage varies.

My takeaway is: The job not being glamorous or rewarding does not make it low-skill. Though that's probably my objection to the term low-skill more than anything else.

[buoyant bramble]

hello

[short halo]

hi

[mystic marsh]

hi

[jade pelican]

how nice

[sand patio]

I know that the season for internships is nearly over for this year, but is there another time where stuff will spike up again

I've heard late December

[smoky quest]

you know what people do late december? they go to company parties, plan for the end of year vacations and celebrations and spend time with family

that leaves little time to worry about budgets and interns

[lilac yoke]

Yes. Spring

I got my internship in May last year so you’re fine

[mossy holly]

Uh

[hybrid solstice]

Instead of using 4 elif statements. You could use dictionary mapping. it's a lot quicker.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I dread thanksgiving every year, because getting anythign done in December is impossible.

[balmy mural]

December is release freeze for our client. So there's actually not a lot to do. It's a great time to tackle some tech debt and low priority backlogged items

[wild prairie]

Uhm could you please elaborate? Sorry.

[hybrid solstice]

Instead of doing this you should create a dictionary then map through it.

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice , you should take this to #python-discussion

[hybrid solstice]

My bad he just asked what needed to improve

[heavy knoll]

Thank you

[peak halo]

your resume says that you're still at SCU pursuing a degree in communications that you started in 2018, but you're taking what appear to be CS courses, and that your participation in clubs ended in 2024. did you start a masters, or something?

[umbral ginkgo]

here is the corrected one

[peak halo]

I'm still confused why you took so many CS courses if your major was communications

[umbral ginkgo]

ok give me a moment

[peak halo]

I ask because you'll probably be asked about that during a phone screening

you changed it? what was your major?

if it was computer science, why did it say communications before?

[umbral ginkgo]

That was a mistake, I am using a resume template, I studied computer science in school not communications

If you still don't believe me, I can send you my linkedin as proof

[peak halo]

it doesn't really matter to me.
have you confirmed that any other mistakes in the resume you've shown are corrected?

[visual flax]

Is a masters in EE worth it in terms of financials?

[fringe sphinx]

That's an incomplete question. Depends on your situation, whether youre doing it full-time/part-time, how many years it'll take.

[visual flax]

theoretically I'd be doing straight out of undergrad.

[fringe sphinx]

Some schools offer a +1 option (ie: masters + undergrad in 5

[visual flax]

Ok I have a question where do you think I can get honest financial adviec? in terms of discord

[fringe sphinx]

on discord? probably nowhere

[visual flax]

Perplexity and chatgpt isn't a good idea to get advice from either is it?

Is there a way for me to tell where I place financially? given my situation?

[near ocean]

a masters or a degree are not guarantees of financial success

i know people with PhDs doing worse than I do

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I never thought my masters really helped me financially, altho I got it after having a few YoE.

I do think a 4+1 is probably a good idea.

[smoky quest]

it depends on many factors as many factors will impact your financials:

• Diving deeper into the domain will enable you to develop deeper skills, which might in turn create opportunities for you that you would not be able to fully take advantage of otherwise
• If you plan on emigrating, it might give you access to different visas and quotas
• Some roles might require masters or above

[umbral ginkgo]

Does anyone have any input?

[dense mica]

pretty wordy

[fringe sphinx]

Welcome! We don't allow recruiting or job seeking on the server. See channel description. Your post has been removed.

[umbral ginkgo]

You have no idea how a resume work, this server is trash

[delicate swift]

Well, I guess he didn't want inputs after all

[fringe sphinx]

Sometimes people are available to review, sometimes they're not.

[harsh glacier]

will learning python and other languages benefit me if im aiming to be an engineer?

[true harness]

yes

[whole flare]

I believe they left the server shortly after that message

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, unless you mean a train engineer.

[harsh glacier]

nah mech or EE

or should i focus more on a more of a low level like c?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not a ME or EE, but: learn Python first. This idea that "low-level" is more useful or fundamental is a myth.

[harsh glacier]

okay thank you

[fringe sphinx]

Some pointers: #python-discussion message

[grave wyvern]

Guys is there any discord server where I can post my resume for potential employers to check?

[peak halo]

Don't look for jobs on a Discord server. Just use a hiring website.
Why would people post jobs in a discord server and not on a hiring website?
||If the job is a scam.||

[grave wyvern]

I see. thanks for the suggestion

[pine sleet]

Hello all, been applying for a while now with a fair number of applications and having a hard time getting interviews. I assume the issue is with the resume, would appreciate some feedback

[modest kraken]

I would put experience and projects first

[dense mica]

1. the order is education then experience then projects then technical skills

2. I’d make the bullet points less high in number as recruiters read a resume for 10-30 seconds max so I guarantee they aren’t all being read. You want 2 or max 3 bullet points to immediately hit the key idea

3. id remove moderating a discord server from your experience and id probably put it under some kind of “outside of work” other “other” section

[pine sleet]

sounds reasonable so far, thanks 😄

[orchid iris]

I do education / experience / awards / skills ordering. I think skills always go at the bottom.

[bleak tendon]

Hello

[lilac yoke]

1. I'd make the order Summary of Qualifications (tailored to the role you apply to), Experience, Projects, Education Skills

2. For bullet points, follow: "Using X did Y which accomplished Z, quantified by statistic Q" (change the order however you'd like)

3. Show links, demos, anything on the resume to point to an actual product you made. Assume if it isn't hosted and visible nobody cares (github links are a last resort-- host your projects!!!)

4.Remove highschool info

5. This resume is very generic, reading through it I can't really put a point on the niche of engineering you want to explore. When you make a resume, make sure it's tailored specifically to a job postings criteria. Every key word in the job posting should show up 2-3 times in your resume. The Summary of Qualifications section I mentioned is an easy way to get the big ones on there.

I'll throw this your way too: https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/cloudflare/jobs/7206269?gh_jid=7206269

[near ocean]

Robin is still in uni, i would keep education up top, after their first position they can move it under exp and projects

[fringe sphinx]

Experience, separate "Title" and "Company / Organization". The title is the top level point. If your top level bullet is "created xyz", then why is "security administrator" is your job title? Administrator conveys a different type of role than Engineer. Most of your Vipyr bullets talk about what Vipyr does, not what you did. In fact, only the first bullet is probably appropriate. Small errors: ie: "maintain" instead "maintained" in the Dragonfly project. I'd love to see more stuff about CI/CD, tests, etc

I'd also move technical skills to bottom. Least important section.

I don't mind the PyDis stuff as experience for someone in Uni, didn't really seem wrong (but post-graduation, it moves).

Consider: prepare two resumes, one security focused and the other SWE focused.

[vast shoal]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[tender thicket]

!ban 1078325401450975242 job ads

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @west adder permanently.

[tender thicket]

@lofty pulsar We're not a job board, please don't post job ads

[vocal bloom]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[lofty pulsar]

sorry by any chance do you a discord group in which one I can share many job positions?

these positions have good salaries

[peak halo]

We do not. Use an actual job board.

[vocal bloom]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[cobalt lark]

Hi y'all!

Would you have any suggestion on how to upgrade my GitHub profile? https://github.com/Akarys42

[smoky quest]

your first project that people see:

• It has a small number of commits: 21
• Except for some super minor changed you did in 2025, it's all from 4-5 years ago. Why is something you did 4-5 years ago still your best work? Did you peak in 2021?

[cobalt lark]

Did I peak in 2021? Probably yeah

I can definitely swap projects around - what would you recommend?

[smoky quest]

on the bright side, it has license, CI/CD, etc. and that's great.
But I would rather see something you did this year

[cobalt lark]

I can put chronometer.cloud as the first project. I'd also like to put an emphasis that it's currently being used at large yugioh events but I'm not certain how to best approach that (or if it's something I should just save for interviews). From a purely number perspective, that project, cloudflare ddns, is the one that's doing the best.

[smoky quest]

yeah chronometer.cloud is probably your best project. It would help to have more depth and to add some screenshot to the README

aegir is from 3years ago too, so not a great candidate either

A diagram may help too for chronometer.cloud to illustrate how it works

And since you aim for devops, it might help to see stuff like terraform beyond just CI/CD

as well as telemetry

[rough vapor]

Hi guys

[solid parcel]

100% this. Going off @smoky quest 's comment about you wanting to get into DevOps, @cobalt lark I'd recommend that you get Terraform set up to deploy the infrastructure for a project, the LGTM stack to monitor it, at least a couple of tests that run during CI, and some documentation (quickstart guide, basic system diagram). That'll already put you miles ahead of a lot of juniors.

[fresh ether]

https://s4.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-4e86f4ca27fff1eb.gif

[cobalt lark]

I mean I already worked as a devops engineer, it's just really hard to show on a github

[solid parcel]

There are tons of things you can show. Blue green deployments, automated rollbacks, canary rollouts, GitOps workflows... Just to name a few

[peak halo]

Is there a reason you're posting this here? That person apparently isn't in this server

[versed shore]

is threany well paying jobs that i can take

[near ocean]

not here

[versed shore]

good then let me rephrase im asking for what is the best well paying jobs

[smoky quest]

CEO of a multi billion dollars company

[crude sphinx]

Hi everyone

Anyone tried python 3.14 with TF or pytorch??

[smoky quest]

sounds like a better question for #data-science-and-ml

[violet spire]

Hi guys

[final acorn]

Hi

[vapid jay]

Hi

[radiant viper]

Hi

[white relic]

Hi

[elfin plinth]

Hi

what is life?

[dawn temple]

anyone have a course for python beginners that will help learn everything ?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz!

!warn 1309867013870587914 This is not a meme channel. Stick to the topic, and be helpful. Your post has been removed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @elfin plinth.

[turbid bobcat]

AI is not getting any worse, I started a new project and I'm getting surprisingly far with copilot on the github UI

I open an issue, assign to copilot, and it does the thing. when it does something stupid I call it out and it fixed it.

automated all my grunt work, it setup CI workflows for building docker images, for testing, linting, sec, etc. it set up my pre commits, researches stuff for me, it self reviews, and much more

I have a whole MVP done, and I did not open an IDE, and it took me like 3 days to do the meat of it

the speed at which I implement a feature with a satisfactory quality has undoubtedly increased

I've been told several times that as complexity and code size increases the cracks will start to show. but what has done so far is already quite remarkable imo

I think it is time to accept that the role of an engineer is fundamentally going to change and move up the stack. the nasdaq100 is overvalued, but the underlying tech being overhyped is very real

[visual flax]

If I want to work on an weekend project. Is it worth it to do unreal engine? Like will those skills look as impressive as creating a mobile app in react?

[fringe sphinx]

What makes you impressive is that you learned something new. Doesn't matter what.

[solid parcel]

'Self-review' implies it's able to effectively vet its own output, which in my experience is not at all the case. Yes there are time savings to be had, but most of the work you've mentioned is repetitive boilerplate rather than high skill engineering.

As things stand, I don't see tech roles past helpdesk being particularly impacted by AI in its current or near future form.

[visual flax]

So its chill If I make something in unreal engine instead of mobile development? I imagine its about equal chance I make billions from either right

[fringe sphinx]

That's the right attitude

[visual flax]

Alright Thanks BillyBobby. I'm going to get started right now. Thanks for the advice!

[turbid bobcat]

Im sorry to say, this is the result of a ton of copium that a large chunk of the industry is taking

even if you believe this entire take, which I contest with my own personal experience and that of many others, we're quite early in an hype cycle driven by hardware that is set to double its compute juice every 2 years or less

[solid parcel]

Out of curiosity - are you working in industry yet, or still a student?

[turbid bobcat]

I have several years of experience

but I'm sure I'm just not skilled enough to tell you you're right

anyway, just stopped by to say hi and leave my traditional hot take interjection

[solid parcel]

Is this experience in industry, or working on personal projects? It doesn't invalidate your take either way, I'm just curious because in my experience technical skills are usually far from the biggest blocker when it comes to making stuff work in a professional setting. Imo AI is pretty good at helping with a lot of the easier parts, but lacks sufficient context to support much of the higher level work effectively. It's often a matter of understanding process, industry and organisational constraints, dependencies between teams etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Is the take that ai tools are helpful?

[turbid bobcat]

industry experience yes, I have made money by writing code, companies have relocated me, I have travelled to far away cool places to deploy code where could couldnt be deployed remotely

[turbid bobcat]

my take is as I have written it

[fringe sphinx]

I didn't mean it snarkily, just: I'm not sure I follow. You mention copium, but I'm not sure what the perceived copium is

[icy pagoda]

As things stand, I don't see tech roles past helpdesk being particularly impacted by AI in its current or near future form

[fringe sphinx]

Probably depends on what impacted means

[turbid bobcat]

by copium I mean the act of strawmaning this technology to convince oneself AI is not transforming the industry

[fringe sphinx]

Transforming and impacting are such vague terms.

[icy pagoda]

i'm guessing the extent of "impact" here is "completely change the trajectory/economically displace a lot of roles"

[solid parcel]

Significantly reduced in number, or the work being done substantially changing

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I think that's the difficult part to predict: when you perturb an already unstable system, what happens to the system?

[turbid bobcat]

well, its hard to make predictions about it

but my understanding is that grunt repetitive work is gonna get automated away while engineers move up the stack, as in,.take a more strategic people oriented work

[icy pagoda]

people management

[turbid bobcat]

yes yes, ppl management xD

well, merry xmas everyone

[icy pagoda]

i just feel the day they completely displace/change the technical direction of the "job of automation" is when we descend into sci fi stuff - if it even happens

also think that's very far off but the hype has been making a lot of bold predictions lately

[turbid bobcat]

no one is talking about displacement, the market is clearly still pricing in a premium to engineering knowledge

there is growing evidence that jobs, particularly junior ones, have already been impacted

there's also some quite striking correlations happening in the non farm jobs data

they are also reflected by juxtaposing the headcount of big tech companies with their earnings data

[turbid bobcat]

u can plot the stock market against the jobs data

it's the first time since at least 2000 that the number of non farm jobs has anti correlated with the stock market

that could mean we're in a bubble sure, but you see this happening if you dig into the actual earnings data I mentioned before

I mean, I dont wanna take too many conclusion out of itz, but I'd say its intellectually dishonest if your eyebrow doesnt raise when looking at it

right, this starts right when chat gpt was released, nov 2022

its striking

and uhm, the best contrarian explanation I found is that the interest rates data seems to have some explanatory power over it, but yea, that dont really explain why this is happening for the first time in decades, if it has even ever happened b4

[solid parcel]

This is a questionable conclusion given much of the layoffs appear related to changes in R&D classification, a reallocation of funds toward AI initiatives (research, data centre buildout etc.) and a general weakening of the economy rather than because AI is already bringing huge efficiencies.

The best available data at the moment is showing a monumental proportion of AI projects fail to deliver positive RoI.

[turbid bobcat]

again, I dont wanna take any conclusions, the line is ofc pushing a very specific narrative

but I have not found a satisfactory explanation

if this was due to a general weakening of the economy, we'd expect to have seen something like it happen in the last 25 years

so I'd need a bit more than that

[solid parcel]

I know you're educated enough to understand how lacking an explanation a screenshot of a graph is, lol

[turbid bobcat]

so, the amount of money per head being made by the mag7 seems to have increased without increasing the headcount

I say the mag7 cuz thats what moves the sp500 these days

the implication is that there is higher productiivty, since more is being done with less ppl

[vapid violet]

Based off of just this graph alone, could this not mean that there is low unemployment so companies are more productive?

[turbid bobcat]

well, yea the graph choice was unfortunate

but you'll see this also if you plot the number of ppl employed

its more credible even if you plot number of ppl employed in a single company

cuz you could make the argument that these companies are global, so it wouldnt really be fair to compare US jobs growth against earnings that might be coming from their foreign divisions

like, theres something to it

Im reasonably skeptic that AI has already done such a large impact

but that stuff im showing aint normal

and I also dont believe the covid19 narrative, covid was a while ago, idk how they can still be pointing at it to layoff ppl

[fringe sphinx]

Unemployment rate is slightly up, but significantly down from other crises.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

(this is neither to disprove or prove anything, only since we're talking unemployment rates)

JTSJOL (used in the prior chart) is a bit confusing to use here because: "These data are a unique economic indicator of unmet demand for labor and labor shortages. Economists, government officials, and researchers use Job Openings as a measure of tightness within job markets.

Note that the set of available job openings may decline because openings become filled, or because previous openings are removed without filling positions."

[turbid bobcat]

the US economy has been surprisingly resilient given the push and pull the administration has been doing to it

the private sector has stepped in and partially absorbed the tariffs, preventing its primary inflationary effect

from what I hear this is an historical pattern, white house does whatever and the private sector works around it, keeping the country ticking

tho ofc some times the private sector does bad stuff and the fed needs to bail out banks or wtv lmao

but yea, im in a wait and see mode with regards to the jobs data

I simply dont kno

maybe big tech is cooking the books

maybe they firing ppl to fund those massive capex

i dont kno

[open ivy]

Why are so many people socially evasive, distancing themselves from me and (I think) others as well?

What forces are causing this behavior which lead to the loneliness epidemic?

Break this spell! If reaching out is natural networking will cost less energy.

But how?

[pine sleet]

if you find that people are consistently socially evading you, you should consider that it may be something you're doing rather than some wider loneliness epidemic

[solid parcel]

Particularly given from comments you've made here previously, it sounds like you're prone to infodumping on people and ignoring cues that they're trying to disengage

[pine sleet]

i believe that i did mention this to you a while back...

[vapid jay]

I just got offered two internships as junior software developer and one at a data centre. So I’m just curious, what type of stuff do people do at a data centre?

[ember rapids]

anyone got a good resume writer they can recommend?

[peak halo]

by writer do you mean a template, or a word processor, or something else?

[solid parcel]

A fair bit of physical grunt work (installing servers, switches, cabling), replacing and decommissioning failed parts, troubleshooting hardware and networking issues.

Imo you'd likely get more value out of the software dev internship

[true harness]

how did you get an offer without knowing what they are asking you to do?

[vapid jay]

I didn’t bother reading the description, I just saw internship and I apply for it

[true harness]

sure... but what about interviews?

[vapid jay]

Haven’t gotten to that stage yet. But I did receive an email for choosing a date for a interview

[solid parcel]

Ha, then you're a ways off from being offered two internships 😆 I'd look more into the roles and orgs to increase your chances of landing one

[vapid jay]

Eh. I’ll just roll with it and see what happens

At the end of the day I got nothing to lose

[ember rapids]

like a professional person writing it

[peak halo]

why do you want that? you're the one who knows what you've done.

[ember rapids]

bc they know how to look at what i wrote and what to write to make recruiters like it? im just looking for a rec if anyone has one

[peak halo]

I've never heard of that being a service. but being able to communicate effectively is one of the most important skills for a developer to have, so you need to be able to write your own resume.

[vapid jay]

Something, my teacher use to say. Documentation is important, write down just about everything

[ember rapids]

it is a well known service for all industries, really not looking for judgment. i already work a full time job and am looking for someone with professional experience in writing resumes so I can pivot into a different tech field

the service is meant to get your resume past the AI filtering that recruiters have these days. idk i have never used one but if anyone had a recommendation i would be willing to try it to see if it would make a difference

[solid parcel]

It's 100% a service, but finding a good one is hard! Tons of people offering the service and I hear grumblings about many of them not knowing what they're doing and offering contradictory advice.

[ember rapids]

yup that's why i came here to ask for a rec instead of using whatever I find online

[solid parcel]

Unfortunately not a service I've used myself, else I'd happily point you in the direction of someone good

[smoky quest]

It's quite common.
However these are usually non-tech people and I would not recommend them anyway.

[smoky quest]

you could:

• Post an anonymized version of your resume here for feedback
• There are a bunch of recruiters hitting candidates on linkedin. Use them to get feedback on your resume and getting advice on how to present your profile. They are in tech, have actually placed people and know what make employers tick. And it's in their interest to show an awesome resume to the prospective employers

[ember rapids]

wasn't sure if i was allowed to do the first one, but will try that later. hadn't considered the linkedin thing, might try that, thanks!

[solid parcel]

And they're also close enough to know what the recruitment tooling in use actually looks like, as opposed to the game of telephone that goes on between engineers discussing the topic, lol

[maiden canyon]

please dm me if you know how to make a python macro from scratch. (for the roblox game called fisch) if you do not play that game please do not dm!

[open ivy]

Do you think all the talk of a "loneliness epidemic" is overhyped?

Lots of (digital) ink was spilled on lack of third spaces, social media doomscrolling, people not knowing how to "call in" micro aggressions, AI replacing human connections, and more. It seems all valid based on the behaviors I have seen in-person.

Maybe it is not a big problem in your particular environment?

But what I was trying to discuss was, for those of who who feel like reaching out costs too much energy, how to reduce said energy cost.

[smoky quest]

The safest action for you at this time would be to reach out to a therapist to get confirmation. They are trained for that and will be the best people able to answer your question

We are not equipped to help in this matter in this channel and server

[open ivy]

I know someone who doomscrolls most of the day and has little time for human interaction. They only leave the home once a week or so.

So online therapy would be really good to help them, but agreed that is off topic.

Either way, if something is inhibiting you from networking, you should not be afraid to mention it, but agreed that mental health itself is off topic.

[smoky quest]

If you have issues networking or relating to people or what you described earlier in #career-advice message, that's something for a therapist to help with

[open ivy]

And a social scientist. Because they understand which environments don't have everyone glued to their phone.

[smoky quest]

they might be trained to look at social issues at large, but they will not be trained in the ways to help you address your specific issues

the same way an economist can understand the economy but they won't manage your bank account

[open ivy]

Haven't you also had problems with everyone glued on their phone? And having no time to actually listen to you?

[smoky quest]

no?

[open ivy]

Billions of dollars and exobytes of privacy violations have been used to make algorithms as addictive as possible.

How do you defeat that!?

[smoky quest]

Sounds like a great question for #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[fading skiff]

Hello, I'm back & what talking about today?

[near ocean]

Who are you reaching out to? Are you trying to talk about your projects to random people on the train? Or are you going to places and meetups whose purpose is to talk tech with specific contexts in mind

Random people don't owe you their time

[vapid jay]

Virtual machine for my assignments going to be the death of me

[open ivy]

I try to find events, of course, but it is still a long shot.

How do you find people willing to listen to you explain your personal projects?

[dense mica]

Correlation does not imply causation 🙂

You’re looking for causal analysis of that graph which is a set of very different considerations!

[stray mauve]

Computer engineering has to be a complex field to deal with

[stray mauve]

@solid parcel do u get internship after completing a course

[solid parcel]

I got into the industry via an apprenticeship initially, so nope

[stray mauve]

Like does it require u to be a degree holder

[solid parcel]

An apprenticeship doesn't require you to have a degree.

An internship is often intended for students or recent grads. So yeah if it's internships you're talking about, the majority will require you to either have completed or be in the process of completing a degree.

[stray mauve]

How did u get into apprenticeship

[solid parcel]

Bog standard interview process. It wasn't exactly prestigious, but let me get my foot in the door which is often the hardest part. At the time, I didn't really know anything about tech outside of having done some basic tinkering with building PCs and laptop repair in my teens

[stray mauve]

Like what field are u into

[solid parcel]

I work as a cloud and DevOps engineer, also looking at moving laterally into SRE. Lots of IaC, pipelines, scripting, monitoring and observability. Generally helping set direction and priorities for my team, mentoring and leading more junior engineers, making sure our systems work a little better than they did the day before.

My core responsibilities this quarter have included defining our alerting strategy, implementing automated remediations and mapping out a migration pathway from Bicep to Terraform.

[stray mauve]

How long does it take to be a cloud engineer

And when u applied for this internship what was your level of knowledge or experience in this field

[solid parcel]

I think you can start being productive after 6 months to a year of study, and then about the same on top of that from on the job experience (there are some things that you'll only learn from being employed rather than working to skill up in your own time, particularly when it comes to business processes. Change management, for example). That's also depending on how hard you work and assuming you've got a team lead that understands how to break down work into manageable chunks for you.

Unfortunately the market is very rough for juniors at the moment so in practise you often have to demonstrate a much greater depth of understanding than the timescales above would imply.

Generally the typical route in is to work your way up through support roles, or start as a junior dev and then shift into cloud engineering.

[stray mauve]

How long did it take before u became a junior dev in cloud engineer and on what basis did u get this internship

[vital lotus]

Hello guys

[stray mauve]

Hello alam

[solid parcel]

It was an apprenticeship rather than an internship for me. I literally just applied for it; their expectations weren't particularly high, it was with a local government organisation.

Initially I knew virtually nothing about tech outside of a tiny bit about consumer hardware. I started the apprenticeship back in September 2020. At first I was literally just repairing and reimaging laptops. I took every moment I could to upskill. Azure was the main cloud the org used, so I gunned for a couple of certs (AZ 104 and 305). Also managed to wrangle my way into a placement in the cloud team (you rotated around different sections of the organisation as part of the apprenticeship).

The apprenticeship finished in April 2021, and by then I had a couple of offers lined up. One as a cyber analyst, the other as a cloud engineer and sysadmin. Overall, my progression has looked like this:

Hardware Apprenticeship
September 2020 - April 2021
£17,000

Cloud Sysadmin
April 2021 - December 2021
£36,000

Cloud DevOps Engineer
January 2022 - September 2024
£50,000

Senior Cloud DevOps Engineer
September 2024 - Present
£85,000 (£103,000 total comp)

[stray mauve]

The apprenticeship was based on hardware repairs and aot

[solid parcel]

Plan for my next move is to shift into SRE and then look to either land a lead role at my current org (Lloyds Bank), or shift to Google and perhaps onto Anthropic from there.

[solid parcel]

It was technically a hardware apprenticeship, yes. But given it was in the middle of COVID, opportunities for that were limited! Which is part of the reason I (happily) was rotated into the cloud team. Another time I'd have opted for the software version of the apprenticeship anyway, imo that would have been a more valuable starting point.

[stray mauve]

U didn't have any prior knowledge on how cloud engineering works, how did u get hired as a cloud engineer like what is the correlation between a hardware repairer and a cloud engineer

[solid parcel]

Again, as part of the apprenticeship I was placed within the cloud team so got exposure via that. I was also spending a monumental amount of time upskilling, learning about networking, Azure, DevOps, infrastructure as code and so on. I was also fortunate in that the bar to get hired was much lower when I was starting out. People were scrambling for cloud skills back in COVID as many orgs were needing to significantly rework or migrate some of their systems either to support larger volumes of users or to allow employees to work remotely. So having some knowledge, even with gaps, was often enough to land a role

[stray mauve]

Cool

It is about practicality

[worthy pivot]

hello yall i just downloaded python tdy and idk what to do rn im looking at a yt rn

[stray mauve]

U want to start coding in 2025 bro

[worthy pivot]

yeah hahahah

[stray mauve]

You're late

[worthy pivot]

i have a bit of experince in roblox scripting not good

[stray mauve]

Ig but u need to start working on projects

[worthy pivot]

idk if i even instaled python right 😭

i see a terminal

[robust lotus]

the internet is becoming less and less helpful this days anyways... name some useful projects

[worthy pivot]

make a detector when someone goes inside your room or touches your doorknob

[robust lotus]

I don't want anyone touching my doorknob, not without my permission anyways

[frail mango]

Hello! I did 2 years of VBA, Python as a job, and a few other languages as learning. I also study at university, but I love coding and I want to do it as freeelancing. Really freelancing is is what I need. Can someone help me in dm please? Not asking for work, just tips where to start. I would gladly share my working experience.

🙂

[deep finch]

Hello who can I talk here

[cyan meadow]

well i just joined might not be much of a help i guess

[stray mauve]

Imagine building 100 projects without getting a job

[mint oriole]

hello

[near ocean]

No one has ever done this

People dont build 100 even slightly meaningful projects and then fail to get a job
100 hello worlds mean nothing though, dont do that

[slow wharf]

guys should i start freelancing? i am still discussing prices, am intermediate, could make some good projects if i said so myself. i currently have like 8 saved scripts whit good projects innit.

[peak halo]

You can try, but I don't think you'd be able to out-compete all the other relative newcomers who are trying to freelance

[slow wharf]

Do you have any good tips on how i can do so?

[peak halo]

What country are you in?

[slow wharf]

brazil

so i get 5.30 times the USD they pay, not counting fees

[peak halo]

I'm not sure how things work in Brazil. Hopefully someone who does can comment.

[slow wharf]

This is why i want US only costumers, i am planning on selling for lower price then competition, because i get 5.3 times in BRL, bassicaly if i sell for 40 ill get 40 x 5

What do you think? Is it an good or an bad plan for me?

[slow wharf]

not counting fees taken by the exchange app

[peak halo]

I don't know.

I live in the US and my company doesn't contract out any work at all.

[slow wharf]

I see

Do you reccomend any servers? Like for an begginer such myself? I still have alot to learn

While i cant make my paypal account to exchange usd -> brl, i will pratice more

[static linden]

I’m curious about how much different programmers make monthly or annually and I’m aware that it depends but I’m interested to know about different people’s financial experiences with programming

Someone told me they make 3k USD monthly on average and 15k monthly at their peak

[near ocean]

Most software development is salary, you dont get bad months and good months

[true harness]

you should search online for the specific area. it's usually accurate enough to get a range

[solid parcel]

As @true harness says, they can vary a fair bit depending on area. Glassdoor can be a reasonable source for rough ranges (though I wouldn't rely on it as gospel), levels.fyi is great for FAANG and a fair few other top orgs. You can also find industry reports out there on salaries, though they tend to be coarser and look nationally rather than being company or region specific.

[mint oriole]

.

[solid parcel]

@severe widget Scam ^

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 1431330824896385198 No scams, tyvm. Your post has been deleted

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @past dove.

[wind mica]

is this the general chat?

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is what you're looking for

[pastel thunder]

I have good visibility among M1 and other managers as that level, and also outside team (Consistently get praised...) but I think I dont have any visibility to M2, and I think its harming me in many ways, mainly because my M1 is a bit too soft and not a fighter (for he is sub ordinates).

What to do?

M1 also seems too focussed on short term wins, and PMs. While larger goals are discouraged (he did agree recently himself on this). Changing hes attitude wont solve the problem since I anyways still do the necessary work if I think its going to be impactful.

Recently I have been doing significant amount of long-term-impactful work but M2 believes it was all done by seniors in my team (other teammates), I know this from linkedIn where M2 was literally crediting one of senior who I worked with and when I my M1 if my M2 can give me an LOR, he said M2 may not have enough context for writing an LOR (I think I am still gonna ask for an LOR to be clear here but also think he is right).

Additionally, recently I took matters in my hand, and proposed a major change/improvement in system (result supported my claims). And right I was writing a report for bigger crew, he DMed me to run the report through him once, before making a post.
I think the credits will be distributed on this one too, even though I did all the work...

I dont even mind, giving them some credit but I hate that I am invisible to M2 and above and it shows (I wanted a promotion and was told about budget constraints, when other people have been recently been promoted 3 months back).

I know the solution is to talk to M2 (ask feedback, ask LOR, plan meeting and highlight about my impact). But I am afraid this would sabotage my relationship with M1. Secondly, what if my M2 asks me to run things through M1 first?

[smoky quest]

You are being distracted by your fears. Your question is far beyond the "how do I get to know my M2".

The root cause is you don't trust your manager and you believe your manager does not trust you and undermines you.
I would suggest to ask your manager about how your M2 described your work as performed by someone else and how that confuses you.
Ideally, you should work towards (re)building that trust with your manager as you can't succeed without your manager being your cheerleader.

There are multiple issues with your current idea:

• Even if you successfully get visibility about this project, what about the other projects? You have to work against your M1 for every piece of work you produce
• Your manager can still control the narrative with your M2

Note also that we only hear one side of the story, which is your interpretation of the situation. Sometimes it would be interpreted wildly differently by someone else (ex: your M1).
So that means that in one extreme, your manager is an evil piece of shit who actively undermines you, but in another one, you are doing something against common sense and they are trying to help in a way you don't see or understand.

And it's quite visible when someone gets agitated to try to get more visibility. They will tend to play less as a team, step on others and end up hurting themselves in the confusion. This obviously reduces any chance of promotion or good ratings for the performance review.

[stray mauve]

Vocez falas Ingles

[slow wharf]

Falo sim, porque ?

[stray mauve]

Um pouco

[slow wharf]

?

[stray mauve]

😂

[slow wharf]

oq vc qr?

[stray mauve]

Eu não entendo

[slow wharf]

Ent pq ta no server ingles

[smoky quest]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[slow wharf]

i am being polite, just asked an question. sorry

[smoky quest]

Sure. Let's all be polite in english 😉

[stray mauve]

Desculpa, mano.

[slow wharf]

N precisa pedir desculpa, vc n fez nada de errado

[smoky quest]

bro

[slow wharf]

sorry, he mentioned not knowing english well. Just english from now on, promise

[smoky quest]

That's strange considering he can hold pretty good conversations in english in other channels

Note you are free to take non-english conversations in DMs

[slow wharf]

.

[smoky quest]

In terms of moderation, it is not practical to moderate in non-english. This is why it is enforced.
So if someone cannot use google translate or converse in english, then their best bet is to look for a server in their native tongue

[stray mauve]

Sorry I meant I spoke Portuguese a little 😭

[slow wharf]

Oh. I tought you meant you were brazilian and did not understand english. Thats why i replied in portuguese. It was an misunderstanding, sorry

[stray mauve]

No problem

[pastel thunder]

I agree with the two things you said

1. I may not putting enough trust: which is true but if you would have mentioned this 2 months ago (when I asked for promo and stuff, I would have completely disagreed. Before that, I have consistently made sure not to step over anyone, in fact used to and let people present my work as ours and let them speak on my behalf.
2. Agitating hurt everyone: True but there was no sign of agitation before our promo talk. (Atleast on my part)

"
I would suggest to ask your manager about how your M2 described your work as performed by someone else and how that confuses you.
"

I believe this would just cause more problem, I would be talking about social platform referring to a colleague who got the credit (I have good relationship with them).

Wont the better option would to start things new and build realationshipp with M2 however possible (I dont know how)

[smoky quest]

It wouldn't be a better option because you are talking about stepping around your manager.
You should have some relationship with your M2 anyway, but the one deciding your promo is still your M1.

Asking about that social post is not a problem in itself as long as it's done with caring intentions. You can say you do appreciate that coworkers but you find it strange that no one else was credited. Do it with curiosity rather than assumed intentions

Besides that message, it sounds like your criteria for promo aren't clear to you either. That's something you and your manager should be aware of and working towards

[fringe sphinx]

When I read long complicated work stories like this, I'm reminded of the idea that- your story is not the 'truth'. It's merely your interpretation of a series of events. The other people will have very different interpretations.

[smoky quest]

also note that this linkedin post might have a background ranging from:

• Your M2 only know about that coworker
• Your M2 forgot
• Your M2 does not have you in his linkedin contacts
• That coworkers had some issues and they wanted to cheer him up / give him props
• ...

[pastel thunder]

True, these are the possibilities.
But why would my M1 discourage me on asking for LOR? He said M2 is dissociated from work these days and does not entertain such things much.

I am quite confident I am not interpreting the event incorrectly here. The performance reviews speaks about that, I haven't been given any areas of improvement and always told its going great.

I dont know why I am unable to callout such things (like the linkedin post for example here)
I imagine myself in incredible unease mentioning that

[smoky quest]

then why weren't you promoted?

[pastel thunder]

They gave me the budget remark,
maybe, he thinks I cant be fixed? May be doesnot want to get into this politics stuff?

[smoky quest]

but others got promoted, right?

[pastel thunder]

yeah

Maybe he wants to silently get rid of me? god knows

[smoky quest]

Don't go into conspirationist theories.

[smoky quest]

So then it means that you didn't meet the bar to deserve that budget but others did.
Thus you should ask what is the bar for you to meet to get a chunk of that budget

[smoky quest]

There are ways to get rid of people like putting them on a pip, giving them bad reviews, giving them all the boring/bad tasks, etc.

Giving them good reviews but not promoting them is just not that

[pastel thunder]

I did ask him, "what needs to be done for promo"
He said, he WILL try hard, but dont know when
(I could have asked for why others got promoted 3 months back but I find myself in incredible unease here again)

[smoky quest]

if you feel unease advocating for yourself, then no one will advocate for you

[stray mauve]

Professional typing fr

[smoky quest]

Remember that it's not about putting down others.
It's about understanding the criteria for success.

You can still celebrate their promo and wanting to learn from them and emulating their success

[pastel thunder]

I think the problem here is I dont ask a bunch of question that I should, and fill in my assumptions and feel bad about it.....
I wonder how I can fix this.

[smoky quest]

In general:

• Be curious. Don't jump to conclusions from assumptions
• Be charitable in your assumptions. Not everyone is out there to hurt you. It's most likely they don't think about you at all
• Make lists and separate what is known from what is assumed
• Coaching/mentorship with some other engineer/manager you trust. They don't have to be in the same company but they need to challenge your "conclusions"
• Therapy, talk to a professional

[pastel thunder]

Thanks, I will try

[autumn cloak]

i like programming as a hobby, but im interested. what experience level does it even take to get a python programming job nowadays?

[true harness]

approximately 1 bachelor's degree

[fringe sphinx]

Speaking with many years of experience at misunderstanding situations, I'm confident that if you asked M1 or M2 or anyone else, you'd get a very different opinion about what happened.

(I think I'm saying what r_e said, so could this as a ^)

[summer roost]

this is the #career-advice channel. Seems like you're looking for #python-discussion or #data-science-and-ml

[reef island]

ok

[round sluice]

hi guys...

[median mist]

learning assembly is where u realize that your brain has a lead deficiency and u picked the wrong career path

[stark pond]

Hi Everyone

I am a python devoper, now want to move into cloud a devops role more
was looking out for tech skills everything is fine except programming lang, they are asking to add Go also, it is preferred, I tried go it is fine, syntax is good
but the issue is working on Python then after using Go, switching often is confusing me, don't know what to doooo

[solid parcel]

I hear this, Go takes a pretty different approach to Python as it chooses composition over inheritance. It can be tricky holding mental models for both languages in your head at once. Keep at it, you'll get there.

Go continues to be a fantastic language for DevOps, given how much of the tooling landscape is written in it.

[stark pond]

thanks, can you give me some tips? and it is good to learn Go along with Python for cloud + devops right??

[solid parcel]

It's certainly an extremely useful language to know for DevOps work, yes. How much experience do you have with Python? If you're new to both languages, I'd focus on one rather than learning them both in tandem.

[stark pond]

python I have basically used for 5 yrs with Django and now using FastAPI

[solid parcel]

Oh awesome, then yeah by all means, lean into Go.

[stark pond]

thanks, so switching language is difficult at first as I work in python and then get back and learn go, by time it will be better right?? bcoz it is the first time I am going into curly {}, type define and all

[solid parcel]

Yup, it'll 100% get easier. Have you gone through the Tour of Go? That's a nice intro to the main concepts in the language

[stark pond]

ok I will go through it, thankssssss

[solid parcel]

@stark pond Have you worked with Linux and containers before?

[stark pond]

yes I have used them many times

[solid parcel]

Brilliant, once you've got through Tour of Go, I'd recommend taking a look at the following:

https://youtu.be/8fi7uSYlOdc?si=slJES319HnswOwPf

It's a great talk that you could easily follow along with, that'll have you building a container using Go. Actually implementing all the Linux constructs that make up a container under the hood... Cgroups, namespaces and so on. Nice little exercise to use Go that will also help you understand what a container actually is. A lot of this stuff is abstracted away when you're working with Docker or Kubernetes, but it's useful to understand!

Liz Rice is an absurdly good communicator. I started going through her book on ebpf last week...

[stark pond]

thanks , it is really helpful, I will definitely try this

[static light]

Hi everyone! My name is Abdul Kalam. I am a college student currently pursuing a degree in Data Science. I like coding and currently I am learning python and I am also very interested in UI/UX design.
This is the beginning of my career and I am also looking forward to learning new skills from you all .
thank you that's all about me.

[visual flax]

Is being a millionaire common in your 20s
I'm seeing it a lot but most people I know are not. It can't be as easy as they make it seem?

[analog sun]

Its hype

And probably fake. Being wealthy is also easier if you are born into a wealthy family

[fringe sphinx]

It's common if you're an influencer who needs to lie to get clicks.

[visual flax]

I guess going dark and monk mode won't make me a millionaire in half a year

[balmy mural]

To become a millionaire in a short period of time, you'll need to do one of 3 things. Commit some crimes, have very wealthy parents, or be very lucky with a startup

[fringe sphinx]

I'd guarantee that monk mode won't make you a millionaire.

[balmy mural]

I'd advise against the first. It's probably too late for the second. Mostly need luck for the third.

My actual advise would be to ignore influencers online. They're selling and advertising a lifestyle. Majority of them don't actually live that way

[visual flax]

I imagine so, there;s way to many of them online for them to be self-made

Curious how often do you guys get dead time during your 9 to 5?

[fringe sphinx]

Monks?

[visual flax]

So influencers claiming they became millionaires by stopping party and grinding. The motto "Its easy to be great because most people are lazy is such a spectacular lie. Everyone around me is trying super hard to be amazing"

[balmy mural]

What do you mean by deadtime? Large chunks of time with no work, or like 5 minute coffee breaks?

[visual flax]

15 minute relax times before another meeting?

I swear time flies when you are on a schedule.

I'm not sure If people can really do deep focused for 8 hours a day.

[balmy mural]

Depends a lot on my workday/week. Sometimes there's tight deadlines by the end of the week, so any 15 minute gap is going to be utilized. But There's also weeks where I know if I finish my current work, I'd have to go search for work since there's nothing important that has to get done. On days like that, I'll take more leisurely breaks between chunks of work

[balmy mural]

5 minute breaks do a lot for this. And not all of the meetings I'm in require my full focus for the whole meeting. Those are great times to slow down

[visual flax]

I wonder how people who have attention deficits do it. really considering adderall

[solid parcel]

Ha, it absolutely isn't. Taking the US as an example, a huge proportion couldn't even manage a $1,000 unexpected expense. There are vanishingly few haves compared to the number of have nots.

[solid parcel]

Load of nonsense

[visual flax]

It is unfortnately ):

[solid parcel]

Your best friends are compound interest and patience

Put money into a broad passive index fund consistently, leave it in regardless of ups and downs and let it grow (assuming a decently long time horizon i.e decade plus).

The average return of worldwide indexes is 4.9% annually accounting for inflation and fees, and closer to 6-7% for the S&P 500. You can build a good amount of wealth just through consistent work.

[solid parcel]

The average is about 4 hours of productive work a day for white collar roles. I find Friday is by far my most productive day. Headphones on, in the office when it's quiet, no meetings other than the 15 minute morning sync.

[solid parcel]

Ha, I'm in the same boat. I hold off as long as I'm just about getting along okay, but loop back around to considering it when I'm struggling. I'm reticent because I'm keenly aware that screwing with your body is rarely without side effects.

[balmy mural]

Fridays are actually my least productive days. Built up workload throughtout the week means I'm clocking out a bit earlier in the day mentally than normal

[solid parcel]

I often take Friday to step away from the core work I'm doing, to instead explore something I feel could be high impact. E.g. Last week I spent Friday digging into cost and found my team can save somewhere between £45,000 and £620,000 a year (yes it's a very broad range, depends exactly how much we want to lock ourselves in to certain things!).

[balmy mural]

I wish I could do something like that. But first step would probably be to change teams if I wanted to do that. I'm pretty firmly inside of a feature team, so there is a pretty constant pipeline of work that comes in of features that need to be built. Maybe I can do something like that next year at a new job

[solid parcel]

I find I happily have a long enough leash from my boss to spend a little time on things I think will bring value. My main work is dragging massively at the moment too (unfortunately due to blockers outside of my control). So I need something productive to do, else I'd be tearing my hair out in frustration.

[balmy mural]

When the amount of work coming down our pipeline was a bit thin we had a nice and long leash to go find stuff that's interesting that we wanted to do/improve. But I also work for a consultant company for a specific client, so it's a pretty locked down system from our point of view and there's not a ton that can really be done outside of normal work that comes our way

[solid parcel]

ahhh, yeah consultancies are usually cracking the whip. I'm working for a retail bank, so things are similarly flipping locked down. That's part of what's making things take so long... I requested a permission be added to a service principal 6 days ago. It sat in a queue for 3 days, then got picked up and an email was sent to the three required approvers. Currently got one of the three back, and I'm still waiting 🙃

This is just for the dev/test environment...

[balmy mural]

So... our client is a retail bank as well. It's double the amount of red tape xD

[solid parcel]

Ha, fun times...

[balmy mural]

It's been my first job and I've stuck with one client for the past 3 years. So I am pretty excited to get some different experience as well in the future

[solid parcel]

Jumping to another role may not be a bad idea - moving is by far the best way to grow your comp, and across a career it has a substantial impact on total earnings. Albeit the market is particularly rough at the moment...

[balmy mural]

I'm emigrating early next year. So I'll have to find a new job regardless. Did my final visa application last week. If I was not emigrating, I would have started job hunting probably halfway into current year for something else local

Although to be fair to my current company, raises have been high enough that I do outearn all but two of my computer science friends from uni. They don't pay top money, but they do pay quite a bit above average if I look at reported salaries in the country

[solid parcel]

Where are you at the moment, and where are you emigrating to? 👀

[balmy mural]

South Africa, emigrating to The Netherlands

[solid parcel]

Nice, have you been before? The weather might be a shock 😆

[balmy mural]

Been there multiple times. The weather is the one part I hate 😂

[solid parcel]

Whereabouts in The Netherlands will you be? There are some decent companies, I know Jump Trading have a place in Amsterdam.

[balmy mural]

Will initially be looking for jobs in Utrecht and surrounding area. Amsterdam isn't terribly far, but I'd prefer to keep my total travelling time under an hour

[solid parcel]

I hear that. My current commute is about an hour 15 (on the way home right now...), and I'd struggle with it if I were in every day.

[balmy mural]

If I don't get anything after enough searching, I'll probably expand to Amsterdam and try to find a hybrid role

Full time on site in Utrecht would be preferred though

[solid parcel]

Good luck, I'd honestly feel pretty nervy about going to another country and then trying to find a job there, given the current market. Any chance you can line one up before moving?

[thorn pine]

Does this message board have an appropriate place to post JDs? I do not want to step over any boundaries.

[peak halo]

Hello, please speak English as best as you can

[peak halo]

what is a JD? job description? if so, no.

[unique jackal]

Can you speak up?

[thorn pine]

Yes, job description.

[peak halo]

No; please read the description of this channel.

[peak halo]

I do not understand what you are saying.

[unique jackal]

Can you call me via dm?

[peak halo]

I cannot.

[thorn pine]

Understood. I meant more was there a place that was recommended for that or no. That was unclear from the description. Sorry for asking.

[unique jackal]

Ok

[peak halo]

It's okay. To be clear: offering or asking for jobs is not allowed anywhere in this server.

[balmy mural]

I do feel pretty nervy yea. It's hard to try to line one up without certainty of if and when my visa will be approved, and then how long it would take me to get registered at my address and get everything I need to qualify for work on that side. I am moving in with my partner who is a Dutch citizen and already living in the Netherlands though, so even if it takes me some time to find anything, it won't be at the risk of me ending up on the street or out of the country if I can't find something quickly

[solid parcel]

Oh beautiful, that's a very different situation if your partner is already over there, that's fantastic

Good luck with the search, let us know how you're getting on with that!

[balmy mural]

Yea, I plan on trying to track some data about my job hunt and will be coming back here to post about it once I land something. Don't think there will be any useful data from it, but hopefully something interesting to talk about

Planned date of move should be mid March at the latest. If visa is approved earlier (hopefully), that timeline will be moved up

[solid parcel]

Think I may have mentioned a couple of days back, but I've got a coffee chat with an SRE at my org this Thursday, so I'll be interested to see how that goes. If the role seems like a good fit, I'll throw my hat into the ring. 👀

[visual flax]

Anyone work in jobs that allow them to develop skills to make really cool irl projects?

[solid parcel]

Most engineers I know that enjoy building projects put a lot of effort outside of work into developing the skills required to do so. Often the thing they enjoy most is the learning... Picking up a new language, seeing if they can write an effective load balancer... That kinda thing. I've started writing a container runtime (think runc) to improve my understanding of Linux syscalls and Go.

[balmy spade]

you want to send a DM to @severe widget for that to be reported.

[solid parcel]

Great stuff, sent

[solid parcel]

Of course it's a guy with an AI generated pfp saying that... Have you got a great idea for an app and just need an engineer to build it, by any chance?

[crisp stream]

!warn 1437510243788525710 We're not a recruitment board

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @round sluice.

[noble dawn]

IM BLOWING UP THE FUCKING WORLD

[pine sleet]

wild

[north hedge]

about time lowk

https://tenor.com/view/fell-gif-11242683397767497522

[sturdy kelp]

Hey, anyone here is a full stack developer

[peak halo]

What would you ask them?

[hardy agate]

Hi

[sick fjord]

Can someone help me with my Ipad’s keyboard pls

It keeps writing ü when I click on p

[fringe sphinx]

This is "career discussion" on a Python server. Not really the place for tech support.

[sick fjord]

Oh sorry

[fringe sphinx]

But, go to your ipads settings and look for keyboard layout.

[sick fjord]

Alright thanks

[lilac sundial]

what happened to the pic of the barbeque u had why u change

or was it beef or somnething idr

[wild grail]

I've been rejected from all 4 linkedin jobs I applied successfully

[peak halo]

you won't hear back from a large majority of places you apply to

[wild grail]

Um you mean too much crowd?

[white relic]

Most online job listings get 10s to 100s of applicants. If it's a job a lot of people want, 1000s.

I work for a small company in an area that isn't known for tech and hire for skills that are more specific than most and we still get in the area of 50-100 for each job we post.

Most of the applications are poor quality, but still.

[fringe sphinx]

Mine is still beef on fire.

[wild grail]

Its really hard to find a fresher role . Everybody needs experienced ones who worked for some companies in the past .

[wild grail]

I thought and it looked like a man's face on a honeycomb for me until I went in and saw ur pp rn and it's beef on fire

[jaunty jasper]

Guys, If leap.new's AI is good, i might have just taken your job

cuz i asked it, to make me an app to make coding AIs, locally but still, godly

[swift mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/air-ai-ai-aint-real-viral-funny-gif-5190776903384380688

[peak halo]

it's looking increasingly like we might have maxed out the ability of LLMs to program. improvements are coming less from increasing the size of the model or adding more training data, but instead from making the LLM talk to itself about what it's trying to do.

[lilac sundial]

old yeller remake for clankers

[lilac sundial]

ma thoughts exactly

[solid parcel]

Yeah it'll be very interesting to see what innovations drive the next wage of improvements.

[ruby zodiac]

I need someone to talk to.

[blissful trellis]

Anyone here I Have A Big Project With You guys

[visual flax]

This is unfortunately for career discussion not therapy

[fringe sphinx]

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[sacred sedge]

Hello, Seniors
I'm new here,
I 'm interested in ai development and robotics , i am currently learning python
I hope any you guys can help and guide me ,
I would be very grateful for your help
looking forward to see you guys
please forgive me for any of mistake

[warm gale]

Hey Seniors ,can you help me in deciding which career to choose, Full stack AI Engineer or AI Architecture.

I only have two academic years left.

Kindly share your opinion

[balmy mural]

Are these paths you have to pick at university? If you still have two academic years left, it's better to learn more different things and expand the breadth of your knowledge and not try to specialize in anything yet

[warm gale]

Well, actually I am a 2nd year student, and when I asked chat gpt "what is best to learn on this modernized day it gave me few suggestions.

[lilac yoke]

I don't know if you will find anyone here advocating for AI anything

[fringe sphinx]

definitely not advocating asking GPT for (edit: career advice) advice, that's for sure 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

But: my advice is - prepare for your future by building breadth, not depth.

[smoky quest]

I would

[fringe sphinx]

What do you think hiring managers really want?

(genuine question... put yourself in a hiring managers position: what characteristics of a junior engineer would you want?)

[warm gale]

I recently joined discord, so GPT was the only option I had before joining

[fringe sphinx]

To be clear, I was just joking... the fact that you asked here was kinda my point: getting varied opinions is the way.

[smoky quest]

It's great to use it for brainstorming and bringing up ideas you might have not thought of or aware of.
But don't assume it's right. Instead, consider it as something that is great at sometimes bringing cool ideas but that is also unreliable.

And absolutely avoid it for coding/troubleshooting while you are not a professional (and I would say a few months after becoming a professional)

[balmy mural]

If you have two years of university left, I'd honestly say just build projects you enjoy building, as long as you're learning something cool with each one

[lilac yoke]

For a career in AI?

[fringe sphinx]

But seriously: If you had 20 years of experience, and wanted to hire a junior engineer, what would you want?

[warm gale]

People with various skills who are able to tackle anything

[smoky quest]

Only a sith deals in absolute

[fringe sphinx]

100%. And, I'd hope the engineer could be able to hit the ground running: things like git & github, ci/cd, cloud computing, linux, etc.

[warm gale]

That is correct but where should I start from..?

[fringe sphinx]

The likelihood that they'll be "expert" at anything we use is negligible.

[fringe sphinx]

Pick something you know very little about, and learn that. Repeat.

One good task is to build a project, publish it on github, setup CI/CD (github actions), publish it on PYPI, etc. That's a great series of learning opportunities.

Another task is to build a full stack web app.

Another is to build some interactive game.

Another is a taking a challenge on kaggle

Another is to work through the pytorch tutorial... I could keep going.

[smoky quest]

You do not have to rely on a single project that will be big and successful right now.
Don't feel the pressure to commit to something now. Feel free to poke and try different areas and something will eventually stick, but you will still learn things along the way.

[warm gale]

I already tried full stack development and completed a few projects.
But it has become too easy these days anyone can build a website from scratch. I did freelancing...

I am very confused on which career to choose

[fringe sphinx]

I translated your question as: "How do I best prepare to be a software engineer, given that I have two years till graduation?"

[warm gale]

Any career related to AI, Cyber Security, Data Management and Analytics or anything which is scarce

[lilac yoke]

Web development is supposed to be easy, it's a tool to showcase something more impressive

[smoky quest]

you are in luck! There is far more to the field than fullstack!

You could look at a job board like indeed/linkedin and search for specific skills or languages to see the wealth of opportunities

[warm gale]

Well I am still in my college but I think I started earlier than most people

[fringe sphinx]

A career isn't just your decisions. It's also the opportunities that present themselves. I didn't pick my career, tbh. It just happened.

[sacred sedge]

Can anyone me help for career options and what should i learn ,
i am still a new learner , i like programming , robotic and mechanical ,
passed 12 this year i am very poor in academics , so i didn't got any collage

[warm gale]

There are so many things I need to learn...and explore

[lilac yoke]

No better time or place than while youre in college

[smoky quest]

fullstack might be a good starting point as it is a typical entry for self taught engineers.

Note that a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation. So I would suggest to work towards re-integrating the education system

[smoky quest]

you have plenty of time

[warm gale]

GSOC...?

[warm gale]

Might be true

[fringe sphinx]

My personal advice is: focus on the fundamentals (low level stuff), because that'll differentiate you more than "I know lots of AI keywords that will change every few months")

low level is perhaps not exactly what I mean... just: core engineering skills

[smoky quest]

Your learning won't stop at the end of your school.
And imagine how boring it would be if you knew everything 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

I guess that explains why my kids are always bored.

[smoky quest]

they do have answers for everything

[warm gale]

And what about DSA ...?

Is it as important as they say it is

@smoky quest @fringe sphinx @lilac yoke @balmy mural

Thank you all 😁

[balmy mural]

If you're studying computer science in university, DSA should be one of the standard classes you're taking?

[smoky quest]

DSA is part of the fundamentals of CS. You can't write any code without any datastructure or algorithm. So yes, it's very important

[warm gale]

Yes but what they teach there is
Few types of sorting
And some data structures such as queues, linked lists, stack.

What I was unable to grasp was how those are implemented in real life..

Just learning the syntax won't do any good so I have to learn it on my own.

They only taught the theory part of as it was mentioned in the text

[lilac yoke]

Those are some of the most fundamental data structures, the applications are practically endless

I would suggest researching the value of all the data structures and algorithms you learn, and maybe even make projects demonstrating them

[fringe sphinx]

What do you think "they say" about DSA?

(also genuine question: the answer varies)

[lilac yoke]

You learn a couple graph theory algorithms and make a pretty website all of a sudden you have twitter, instagram, facebook etc

[fringe sphinx]

DSA can mean anything from the literal meaning: "data structures and algorithms" to the standard fresh/sophomore undergrad course to getting good at leetcode easy & mediums to grinding leetcode hards to competitive programming

(to getting a phd in some esoteric DSA topic)

[hoary compass]

Quick question, Is it common in the US to hire software developers to work as a QA analyst?

Not like extra work but like QA being the main and only thing

[lilac yoke]

yeah you can find QA engineers at large companies

[fringe sphinx]

The phrasing is weird... you mean: CS grads?

[lilac yoke]

From what I've heard it isn't a desirable job

[balmy mural]

Those are two different job titles with different responsibilities

[near ocean]

as SDET or automated QA possibly, but no SWE for manual QA i wouldnt think

[fringe sphinx]

There's a wide spectrum of QA jobs out there... ranging from manual testing to full-on automation engineers who are the equals of the SWEs they work alongwise.

[near ocean]

you'd have to be pretty desperate as a SWE to stay in a tech adjacent role to take a QA role

[fringe sphinx]

But for a first job? QA's a fine option if you can't land the job you want.

[warm gale]

@lilac yoke @fringe sphinx @smoky quest @balmy mural

Thankyou all for helping me out ...

[bleak vortex]

Hi guys i have a question, so im learning python because im trying to focus on authentication/tracking for jewelry but i feel like i hit a very niche thing and i cant find anything at all to progress or learn from, any tips to approach this kind of industry or jobs or where to learn from?

[hoary compass]

I mean when I applied for the job and in the interviews too they gave me the impression of a normal SWE job role but when I actually joined I got to know that my manager is a QA manager, and all the directs under him are QA analyst except me and some others who were hired along with me. And we all do just QA stuff and that too everything manually

[smoky quest]

Can you share more about your issues and struggles?

<@&831776746206265384> shitposting

[bleak vortex]

I just cant figure out a way on how to approach the learning for that path or if its even remotely possible finding a job in something so niche as that

[peak halo]

!shh

[inner wren]

✅ silenced current channel for 4 minute(s).

[peak halo]

!clban 815779973901320253 shitposting

!unshh

[inner wren]

✅ unsilenced current channel.

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @crystal mesa permanently.

[fringe sphinx]

QA can be a software development job, automation does often need a lot of development.

I know that sounds confusing, but: someone has to build the testing software/etc. One of the most important engineers at my last company developed and maintained our testing framework: if not for her, every other developer would have had a lot more work to do

So in short, it's not weird for a QA team to have developers. It's actually good.

[near ocean]

They dont usually call them "QA Analysts" tho

[fringe sphinx]

I was keying off of this: "all the directs under him are QA analyst except me and some others who were hired along with me"

but yah, it's unclear.

[hoary compass]

To clear my role is Associate Software Developer

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so: "software developer on a QA team". Doesn't strike me as terribly unusual.

It's a fine first job, imo.

[hoary compass]

And one thing that I don't understand is management goes out of their way to creep me away from automating stuff they want me to do everything manually which is ridiculous and I seem to have no power to do anything else

[subtle dove]

DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM IN CMUGRAPHICS??

[fringe sphinx]

Never heard of it. Is it python related? If so, probably ask for help in #1035199133436354600

[hoary compass]

That makes me think, did they just want to hire people to function as QA analysts

[fringe sphinx]

You could ask them?

[subtle dove]

yeah it's a package (module?)

[hoary compass]

I did, they seem to not care and come up with some bullshit like clicking a button requires the knowledge of html css etc and so we need developes. In the same team every year they hire a batch of Associate Software Developers and all of them leave within 1 or 2 yrs

[ruby zodiac]

bro i want someone to talk about coding

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion

[sacred sedge]

Can anyone me help for career options and what should i learn ,
i am still a new learner , i like programming , robotic and mechanical ,
passed 12 this year i am very poor in academics , so i didn't got any collage

[visual flax]

Ok Yuuichi, thank you for clarifying. Even still, Python discussion is best for that

[subtle dove]

i coding and making game, in python w cmugraphics.
I desperately need outside opinion from actual coders because all of the "criticism" i'm getting is either, this game is good, or this game is bad

[fringe sphinx]

Open a help thread: #❓｜how-to-get-help tag it 'code review'

[subtle dove]

I did

[oak fox]

What do you guys think about pursuing a career as a medical data analyst? would it be worth it in 4 years when i graduate?

[solid parcel]

It'd help if you can quantify what you mean by 'worth it'.

[oak fox]

Would the field be extremely competitive within the next few years

[fringe sphinx]

To misquote: "Nobody knows if a career is going to go up, down, sideways or in circles, least of all software engineers, right? "

More seriously: maximize your opportunities by building breadth of knowledge & experience.

[near ocean]

What even is a medical data analyst

[oak fox]

Let me be more clear: I’m worried about spending years preparing for a career that, by the time I graduate, won’t be hiring as much because companies will rely more on AI, or salaries will drop. I’m not expecting anyone to predict the future perfectly I just want personal opinions on how AI might affect hiring and whether you believe the field will become too competitive to get into.

[fringe sphinx]

What field?

See, I think you're looking at this all wrong.

You prepare for the future by: being prepared for a variety of roles and skills.

[oak fox]

And I understand the whole idea of expanding my horizons and not focusing everything on just one career I’m not planning to do that. I’m just trying to find the right motivation to keep me going in college.

[fringe sphinx]

You don't prepare by specializing early and locking into a narrow path.

[oak fox]

Just how I am lmao unfortunately

[fringe sphinx]

Fair. We're all built differently. I don't plan, I just do, so I find it hard to relate 🙂

But, here's my take:

[oak fox]

Yeah, I just feel like I’m being pushed into a corner because almost everyone I know keeps telling me that a computer science degree will be useless in the future. I just want to find something to aim for something I can work toward so I can stay motivated and block out all those negative opinions.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, great, that we can talk about

[oak fox]

lmao

[fringe sphinx]

First off, there's no I in AI: AI is not some super thinking intelligent thing that's going to make humans obsolete, at least not anytime in the visible horizon.

AI is useful. AI, in the hands of a skilled engineer, makes us more productive. It helps with coming up with ideas, or generating templates, but ultimately: is mediocre. WIth a skilled engineer, we can turn mediocre into "useful".

[oak fox]

Just to clarify, I’m still a freshman in college pursuing a degree in computer science. I know people tend to exaggerate about how AI is changing everything, but I find myself getting influenced by those ideas when I don’t have a clear goal to focus on.

[fringe sphinx]

And, mediocre can save me hours of fighting with some dumb problem.

[fringe sphinx]

Another take is: ask them: - What career is unimpacted by AI?

If you go on any topical subreddit, you'll hear doom and gloom from doctors, lawyers, teachers, economists, physicists, etc

You are hearing doom and gloom about CS because you're a CS major. If you were any other major, you'd be hearing the same thing.

That's just my take... I'll take a break and let anyone else weigh in.

[oak fox]

Thanks

[solid parcel]

This is nonsense, it absolutely won't be useless. The market sucks for juniors and grads right now and yes, that could realistically continue for a few years. But that is far from meaning that a CS degree is useless or that the profession is going to die off because of AI. Take what they're saying with a big grain of salt. Often people end up opining on the latest hot topic, without having much, if any, basis to do so effectively. The same thing happened with Ukraine, COVID and so on.

[remote crater]

Does getting the CompTIA A+ certificate matter? I might have the opportunity to get it for free.
I've been unemployed for six years and only have a CS degree.

[true harness]

i have never seen it mentioned for SWE positions. but i have heard it might matter for IT/support positions. a CS degree is the only "formal" qualification for most intro swe positions

[remote crater]

I don't care what the position is

[remote crater]

CompTIA Tech+ ( Formerly ITF+ IT Fundamentals FCO-U61)
Server +
CompTIA Linux + Linux Part I (LXO 103)
CompTIA Linux + Linux Part 2 (LXO 104)
CompTIA A+ (220-1001)
CompTIA A+ (220-1002)
CompTIA Net+ Network +(N10-009)
CompTIA Sec+ Security + (SYO 701)

I can take three of these eight courses and their exams for free. Which three should I choose?

[lilac yoke]

security, network, then whatever

though CompTIA isn't all that good, a better use of time would be a Cisco cert

[remote crater]

So not the two A+ exams, huh?

Deepseek is telling me to take those two, then security, and then maybe self-study networking. But I sort of don't trust what it says.

[lilac yoke]

Do you want to work for IT / Help Desk?

[remote crater]

Yeah. I don't care what the job position is.

[lilac yoke]

If not, aim higher haha

[remote crater]

I need to get my foot in the door. I don't care what job I get.