career-advice

[next plover]

The unemployment rate for those majoring in nutritional sciences was only 0.4%, whereas it was 3% for those majoring in art history. The 2023 Census and the unemployment rates of recent college graduates served as the foundation for the New York Fed’s analysis.

looks like it is relatively yes

anyways do what you will with those stats im going back to work

[wraith harbor]

does it just mean any job you get after you have a degree?

[white relic]

unemployment rates generally speaking only count people who are looking for a job and don't have one

[deft herald]

According to this yeah looks like it's on the high end
https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea31.htm

Also IDK where engineering is on this chart

[remote crater]

It just sucks man. Years of college and I barely feel any more qualified than I did before. I probably gained more programming experience on my own outside of college than in it.

[wraith harbor]

it seems like cs has one of the highest unemployment rates, but one of the lowest underemployment rates. which seems to imply that most people with a CS degree get a job in a CS related field. idk if im reading this correctly though https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:explore:outcomes-by-major

[next plover]

too many people for too little jobs maybe?

[balmy mural]

I'm very glad university didn't just teach me how to program. That was the easy part to learn. I wasn't going to easily learn all of the theory on my own

[white relic]

people who major in CS probably are more likely to have plans to immediately enter the workforce, as compared to, say, philosophy majors, who might be more likely to go into law school or something like that

[next plover]

probably

[white relic]

going to graduate school makes you a student, not unemployed

[analog sun]

From the FAQ on that chart:
The definition of underemployment is based on the kinds of jobs held by college graduates. A college graduate working in a job that typically does not require a college degree is considered underemployed.

[white relic]

that checks out

[fast fossil]

"what to learn to make me employable"
CS

[next plover]

just do what i did and milk free community college and spend all your freetime grinding cybersecurity

life cheat code basically

[whole flare]

what if they aren't interested in cybersecurity

[next plover]

they will when scatteredspider hits their org 💀 👎 /jjjjjj

morgan wallen is on chat

[wet gulch]

He is a good hacker

[peak halo]

!cleanban 688764184925700123 Kept soliciting humanitarian funds after being asked to stop, three minutes after joining the server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @knotty wolf permanently.

[wind pike]

Anyone know all the ways to become a mulit millionaire with a computer science degree

[wraith harbor]

If I did I certainly wouldn't be going around telling people

[wind pike]

Ik SAAS, startups (making a website or a app which is paying multiple people to help you)

[wraith harbor]

I suppose the 3rd way would be a senior position at a big tech company

[wind pike]

Thats also limited but really good

I want to start a tech startup

[deft herald]

You should watch Silicon Valley first

[wind pike]

If i ask my teacher again he will smash my head with a keyboard

[wraith harbor]

what all those things have in common is luck and being very knowledgeable. You should maximize your time in school to learn as much as possible

[peak halo]

yes. if there were a specific sequence of steps (however challenging) that anyone could do with the guaranteed outcome of being a millionaire programmer, your teacher would have done that.

[white relic]

Millionaire is a goal that can be reached with a fairly modest amount of luck.

Over the course of a career, that is.

[peak halo]

when people say "I want to be a millionaire", I figure they mean "for the majority of my life". not "I want over a million in my 401k by the time I reach retirement age"

[white relic]

Fair.

[remote crater]

I just want any job, I don't care how much money I make.

[next plover]

id take that 401k tho

[white relic]

As would I, but it's perhaps worth asking what one's idea of "(multi)millionaire" is.
$3M (in the US) is enough to live off the interest more or less indefinitely, but not to live like a king.
$10M is enough you can buy a couple of houses and still live a very comfortable lifestyle, so I guess that's in the range most people think of?

Does this have something to do with the channel topic?

I'll take the reaction as a "no" I guess

There are off topic channels you can post anything in (as long as it follows the #rules ), like #ot1-perplexing-regexing .

[fast fossil]

but not to live like a king
considering you never have to worry about money ever again, I wouldn't be so sure

[white relic]

Anyway, with respect to being a millionaire, there's also the question of time frame, and the shorter the time frame the higher the element of luck required. If you need to get ~$10 million tomorrow, you might as well go to the casino with $200 and put it all on 17 black and hope it hits 3x in a row, because any other approach is about as likely to work

[next plover]

the problems just shift to some other area of life

[fast fossil]

what problems?

[next plover]

its practically human nature to be scared or worried or anxious or stressed

[next plover]

any non-money problems?

[white relic]

Depends where you live, but if you are wise enough to not touch the principal, and keep some in reserve against inflation, $3M really isn't "live like a king" territory

[fast fossil]

did they not exist before?

[fast fossil]

my point was more about the time you have

[white relic]

if you do hit the principal, then you can live however you want, just not for the rest of your life I guess

[next plover]

sure they did, but a homeless kid isnt worrying about a late homework assignment when they have to worry about starving to death

[fast fossil]

I see what you mean, that's fair, yeah
(P.S. "homeless kid" shouldn't even be a concept)

[sand patio]

once you've met your physiological needs you can go on to worry about other things

[white relic]

I certainly wouldn't turn down 3 million, but if you told me I have to live in a cardboard box for the next 5 years, I'd be a hard no thanks

[balmy mural]

You need to outsmart them and put the cardboard box inside your house :p

[still condor]

not to brag but I've earned millions of zimbabwean dollars over my life

[near ocean]

Résumé item

[wanton birch]

Especially when you live in Zimbabwe

[wind pike]

Anyone know how i can start my saas i have a idea and i know python and html from code academy

Im still learning python my laptop is in my other house

[peak halo]

you'll probably need to learn how to host it on a cloud compute platform like AWS

[wind pike]

Im not entirely what that is but i like to study computer science and become rich

[peak halo]

your SAAS product has to be running on a computer. so that will either be a computer that you own that's always on, or you rent (part of) one from a company like Amazon.

[wind pike]

Got it

Thats step 1

[peak halo]

idk what step it is, but it's not step one.
if you want to do a startup, you need to develop an idea for which you can get venture capital funding. One of my friends from undergrad did this, and last I checked, it was going well. He appeared to have developed a network of talented friends with whom he could develop his business idea.

if you're going to school for CS, that would be a good place to network with potential partners.

[wind pike]

Ik thats business such as bootstrapping too or by equity

[peak halo]

that's probably the extent of my knowledge, though. I'm content with my 9-5 life.

[wind pike]

I want a good car

[peak halo]

I have a 2014 accord and sometimes I want to downgrade to a civic.

[wind pike]

Like a rolls royce and a mansion and a AP and bodyguards

[peak halo]

be real for a moment: if you have to work n times as hard as someone with a typical upper middle class lifestyle to sustain the lifestyle you're envisioning, are you sure you'd enjoy it n times as much?

[wind pike]

Yes

Im in college

I finished a course so now i have a holiday so im learning how to code more

[dapper mantle]

@peak halo

[stone ether]

Bro why

[dapper mantle]

I don't think this is the right place for lyrics

[stone ether]

Fair enough

[peak halo]

@stone ether please don't paste vertically long messages that don't contribute to the channel topic. (I say this as a Lucy Dacus fan.)

@stone ether stop that. this is the career discussion channel. please go to one of the off-topic channels if you want to chat.

[stone ether]

Ok

[remote crater]

What does this even mean? How the fuck should I know what random shit I should master to maximize my job opportunities? That's what the COLLEGE should be teaching people.

We're supposed to just throw darts at the wall, learning random softwares and frameworks, and just hoping that we're not wasting our time because they aren't the right ones??

[tardy kite]

yall what is life's purpose?

[balmy spade]

To experience life.

[remote crater]

I mean basically every job description I see has some random shit I've never even heard of.

[bitter palm]

Can you share an example?

[remote crater]

Kubernetes
What the fuck is Kubernetes?

Every job description is just an onslaught of weird random shit.

[balmy spade]

Are you baiting right now or have you not done the briefest of searches?

[remote crater]

I'm just pissed off
Sorry

[balmy spade]

I'll be the first to admit the landscape is full of some interestingly named tools. However, things such as Kubernetes aren't random and are valuable to know even at just a high level.

[remote crater]

Spend years getting a degree, and then people mock you for not ALSO spending your free time learning random frameworks and stuff.

[balmy spade]

We are not mocking you.

[remote crater]

Yeah that's not the ideal word, "criticize" would be more fitting.
Sorry, my verbal intelligence isn't that good.

[balmy spade]

You are correct. You spend years learning what a degree has to teach you and then you realize there are countless other things that you never heard of. The thing to note is that you can spend years working professionally, turn around, and realize the same thing.

It doesn't mean you are lost or adrift. It's the nature of technology. It moves fast. It has for decades and it's not slowing down. Of all the skills you learn; the ability to learn is the greatest one to have.

[harsh river]

a lot of these job boards also post requirements that you might never use

you should still apply if everything else catches your eye.

a good engineer will be able to learn tools they've never heard of or have used in the past

[bitter palm]

You really need a love of learning if you're going to work in this area

[balmy spade]

It's a good point. The job description is often written by HR who asked a team to describe "What do you do here?" There can be a lot of drift between that and what the new role actually needs.

[stoic ingot]

i have a grocery store job

[balmy spade]

Sometimes you can gather the importance of skills by the descriptive used.

Proficiency in scripting languages (eg, PowerShell) for automation and configuration management tasks
"Proficiency" is a weaker term. Familiarity without a ton of experience is likely more than enough. (not afraid to use it. not completely lost)

Expertise in designing, implementing, and managing Exchange, Entra ID, M365 Global Administration, Active Directory, and PKI services
"Expertise" is a stronger term. Whatever this role is, if I don't have experience using these tools I'm probably not what this team is looking for. I most certainly need to target these tools in my resume if I want a chance.

[stoic ingot]

you have to actively learn

well that's part of every job

[balmy spade]

For a grocery store job? Absolutely!
((You don't have to but if you just float you won't go far))

[stoic ingot]

i mean cs jobs

[balmy spade]

Ah. I'd say it's true for all jobs. I've held a few. Haven't had one that learning new things wasn't a good idea.

[stoic ingot]

my dad's a network engineer and he used to have classes in nyc

[stoic ingot]

it's my first job

that makes me sound very young lol

[remote crater]

They want you to just know everything. Employers are fucking insane. They won't say "one of the things we use is Ethereum, so that's something we'll train you in for onboarding". They say "be an expert in Ethereum or we won't hire you". And college doesn't teach you whatever the hell "Ethereum" is.

[stoic ingot]

what is ethereum

some crypto thing?

[balmy spade]

A blockchain, last I checked.

[remote crater]

It's not just software development either. I've been looking for data entry jobs because that was the last job I had and I don't want to lengthen my employment gap. They keep listing things like "QuickBooks" and "Xero", and apparently they instantly reject you unless you already know it.

I keep reading stories where the applicant does great in the interview and fits 80% of the qualifications, and they reject him anyways because he doesn't happen to know "QuickBooks". And why the fuck would you have experience with it unless you happened to have already worked with in in a workplace setting?

[balmy spade]

Stop reading those stories. Ranting can help reduce the stress of the moment but it doesn't solve the problem. If you internalize this negativity you'll just poison your own abilities.

[stoic ingot]

isn't it hard to get jobs rn

[balmy spade]

It's been easier, that's for sure.

[stoic ingot]

too many cs people

[balmy spade]

I don't think that's the cause.

[stoic ingot]

what's the cause

[balmy spade]

The market is in a very unstable place right now. Companies aren't pushing growth. They are holding and hedging with their core products instead. It makes hiring harder because of the "risk" in the market.
((there are plenty of other reasons, but I feel this one is in the top three))

[remote crater]

LOL they pushed "JUST LEARN TO CODE" like ten years ago, now the job market is flooded and hyper competitive. And the same thing will happen to trades. Tons of plumbers and stuff will be unable to get jobs because it's flooded, letting plumbing, carpentry companies, etc select "top talent" and leave average tier workers behind.

"Just learn a trade" is the new "just learn to code".

[balmy spade]

smh, you need to find a better source of inspiration compared to whatever viral feed you're currently tapped into.

[bitter palm]

Can I change the topic a bit if possible please?

[balmy spade]

Go for it. More than one topic can happen here.

[bitter palm]

OK. ⚠️ Effort post warning - this might need a thread haha ⚠️

[remote crater]

You don't think that's accurate? No field or job position has infinite openings.

[bitter palm]

I'm feeling like I'm quickly approaching a crossroads with my career and need a sounding board/rabbi/advice/rubber ducky.
I'm currently in the middle of the interview process for a few different companies for varying flavours of engineering jobs, and I think I'm going to have to make a hard decision soon. To elaborate, these are the three jobs/companies:

Company A - Fundraising as a Service
This place is pretty much a lock - they've spoken to my references and I am confident I'll be getting an offer today. Small company, remote friendly. Everything looks great in terms of product (although the backend is PHP/Laravel so there's that), salary, vibe. My only cause for concern is the size of the product team and the engineering representation - it would just be me and one other engineer responsible for the whole stack, including infrastructure. This makes me a bit nervous, it's really the only strong downside I can see with this role so far.

Company B - Stock Markets news/dashboard
I've done 3 interviews with this place so far, and am fairly sure I'm going to progress to the culture interview. This is a bigger company than ↑, and as such has a bigger product team. I get a good vibe from the place and the people, but do not currently have a sense of whether the salary offer will be competitive (that has not been discussed yet). The stack looks good, and I get the sense that I'll be mainly doing frontend development, with an expectation to dabble in the backend and devops stuff. This is great for me as I love the frontend.

Company C - Crypto
This one is a bit more of a wildcard. This role came to me via a mate in a AU/NZ developer Slack community that I'm a member of.
I'm going to receive an offer from this place today. The impression I get is that they have $texas and are hiring hard. They're very keen to have me get on board with them - they've offered a generous salary and want me start next week. I'd be building dashboards, administration UIs, a React Native phone app - all really interesting and crunchy stuff for my frontend brain to chew on. They're definitely in the early stages. They're still setting up the Australian company, so for the first few months I'd be paid in USD and would have to do my own tax/superannuation etc - I'd effectively be a contractor for that initial period. There's also the crypto elephant in the room. I'm not a crypto guy, and there's a whole conversation about the viability and ethics of crypto that I'm still working through.

Given all of this, I'm not really sure what I'm going to go with. Obviously it's a mutable thing in that I can always leave if I make the "wrong" choice, but I'd rather not have to get back into the job hunting game for a while, and I'm also wary of how a short stint at a company would look on my CV. Please help me get out of my own head!

[white relic]

I don't remember this "just learn to code" thing you're talking about. Being a software engineer, even at entry level, has never been about "just" coding.

"just learn to code" might have gotten you a job in the late 90s but I wasn't in the workforce then.

[stoic ingot]

i was not even a teenager ten years ago so i don't remember anything

[balmy spade]

Of course they don't. I don't think that getting hired into technology today is the same as it was 10 years ago (or 20, or 30, or 40). I don't think the tech market is any more saturated than it has been for the last 15 years though.

Further, grabbing hold of the doomer view with both hands is a net negative toward any chance of helping yourself. The only thing in your control is you. That's it. Sucks, but that's how life works. You have to find the angles of the situation that you can use, move forward, and grow. When you buy full into the idea that it's all hopeless, you won't see opportunity.

[strong lava]

I saw it everywhere shortly before but especially during the pandemic, with tech influencers bragging about luxurious lifestyles where they "just code" in a fancy hotel room. but it doesn't take a professionally working swe to notice something was up with those posts

[broken token]

yo

[stoic ingot]

i wanted to learn years ago but i wasn't sure what i actually wanted to do yet

[balmy spade]

They all seem interesting. I wouldn't panic too much about A's size if the culture is what you are looking for. A small company, I assume you've interviewed with more than an HR rep.

For C, I would be weary of the payment structure and that "basically a contractor" part. Have a legal aid review the offer and look for issues with that. That's my advice there.

Are you currently employed? If you aren't, playing the safe road to get an income and stabilize is perfectly acceptable. You can always move on and you gain experience as you do.

[stoic ingot]

the ai stuff is concerning in terms of taking over certain jobs

[supple sphinx]

should i take STEM or ICT (if i want to get computer science)

[white relic]

Maybe you bought in to some influencer nonsense like yesnt is talking about that said coding is your key to an easy life. That sucks. There's no key to an easy life, if there were, everyone would do it. You got duped. It happens. That's not an excuse to go full bore into doomer nonsense instead; that's just trading one failing narrative for another.
And the idea that trades are now at risk because companies will select only top talent... well. Let me tell you about my experience trying to find a decent plumber. LOL

[bitter palm]

I've interviewed with the CEO, the GM and the other engineer for company A.
I'm not employed currently.

[stoic ingot]

i've heard nothing but cs is a dead major and things like that

not that i would do cs anyway since my math skills aren't the best

[shut helm]

depends where you live and what you do, also if you're passionate abt it

[strong lava]

i feel like people have said this before ChatGPT

[white relic]

The danger of AI to knowledge workers has been greatly exaggerated.

[stoic ingot]

i'm from ny

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you trading?

[peak halo]

the market for CS degree holders is currently saturated, but there are still tons of jobs that require a CS degree relative to other majors.

[fringe sphinx]

Reading?

If you read Reddit, every career is dead

[stoic ingot]

what

[fringe sphinx]

And we are all doomed

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you reading that cs is dead?

[shut helm]

once you're passionate about the field i think you'll get employed especially in NY

[fringe sphinx]

And what career isn't?

[stoic ingot]

oh i'm in a college server lol

[remote crater]

These employment services are kind of like dating/hookup apps, they have the same effect on society. 20 years ago, you just find a job in your local area, you go up and give the manager a firm handshake like the boomers say, and they hire you because you're good enough. 20 years ago, you go to the local bar or whatever and strike up a conversation some okay looking woman, and she decides to talk to you and take you home with her because you're not revolting and you don't seem insane. Now employers have these apps that let the, select "THE BEST AND MOST QUALIFIED ELITE CANDIDATE FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION OMFG", so normies are fucked. And now women have these apps that let them select 7 foot tall gigachads, so once more, normies are fucked (but not literally). These things are affecting us in the same way, and that's why men are doing so poorly in today's world.
It's dating apps and employment agencies.

[fringe sphinx]

So what career do they think is good then?

[stoic ingot]

i'd say everything is fairly cooked

[supple sphinx]

most popular course rn is BSIT (related to tech)

[stoic ingot]

quant

[fringe sphinx]

Quants are going to get crushed by AI.

[stoic ingot]

i was actually going to major in quant econ but i'm not sure how i'd handle the math so i switched to informatics

[peak halo]

please remove the part of this message that pertains to dating. it's not appropriate.

[fringe sphinx]

Salary is certainly going to deflate. It's a bubble

[balmy spade]

26 years ago I was going through employment services to get a job. Last week a teammate of mine walked into a convention, shook a CFO's hand, and has an offer.

[fringe sphinx]

Nature abhors a vacuum.

[strong lava]

one of the first questions i asked an older student when i entered university was whether people were freaking out about ai putting their career at risk
he said no, he never saw anyone like that, even among new incoming students in the last few years.
is it the opposite in the US? do people really act like that, entering CS with this "my field is dead" mindset?

[stoic ingot]

i want to go into an information science field

[supple sphinx]

wait, are we supposed to get a j*b?

[remote crater]

I never watched any of those videos, but I spend a lot of time on 4chan.

[fringe sphinx]

Every major / field thinks they're cooked. Just ask lawyers and doctors

[stoic ingot]

i always thought cs people were smart and that i wasn't smart enough to do it tbh

[fringe sphinx]

CS ppl are people, and people are people, (so why should it be?)

[stoic ingot]

i have an attention problem though so i think that makes learning harder

[fringe sphinx]

So does probably half of CS, I'm probably not that wrong.

[stoic ingot]

i'm not doing bachellor's because too much math

[harsh river]

a lot of people in CS have attention problems, for example most of us here are on discord when we're supposed to be working

[shut helm]

depends where you study but yea mine was math heavy thankfully, look at your local uni's programme

[remote crater]

Management being able to just get AI to make their whole apps seems like kind of a pipe dream. I've talked to LLMs before and they didn't seem like they were capable of doing that. They're more like helpers.

[shut helm]

literally got sucked into this chat

[white relic]

I know that every generation as it ages thinks young people are entitled, but I'm really starting to wonder.
so much of the doomer stuff seems to stem from a crushing disappointment that the world isn't handing you a six figure salary without you having to work at all

[harsh river]

bachellors in what?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm definitely with you here. The myth of the 'why aren't I making big bucks with zero experience or effort?'

[stoic ingot]

the bs for computer science at my uni requires 14 math credits

[harsh river]

so get a bachelors in something else, what country are you in?

[remote crater]

I told you I didn't watch those videos. I don't care about 6 figure salaries, I'm stressed out about being able to find ANY job.

[shut helm]

thats not too bad, also math is good to know

[stoic ingot]

getting a bachelor's in informatics

[shut helm]

are you in india?

[stoic ingot]

i'm from new york

[shut helm]

oh yea, mind slip

[harsh river]

what college are you going to?

[stoic ingot]

ualbany

[strong lava]

I feel like that's because for a while, the general public saw tech workers' jobs as exactly that

[harsh river]

your college might have bachelors in SWE, which might be less heavy in maths

[stoic ingot]

i've heard the cs program is pretty bad

[strong lava]

doesn't excuse it, just thinking of a possible reason

[supple sphinx]

why?

[shut helm]

ualbany doesn't btw just letting you know

[fringe sphinx]

I've hired people from 'bad' cs programs. One of my best engineers was from what he described as a terrible program at a terrible third tier school.

[stoic ingot]

not sure, maybe budget issues?

[balmy spade]

To be fair, for a short couple of years prior to 2021 that was the market spin. Take a 12 week bootcamp course and live the Google Lifestyle (tm). It didn't do the field any favors.

[shut helm]

really hard to find a "bad" CS program at a good university "bad" CS programs win ICPC (in latam)

[harsh river]

fair enough

[strong lava]

what defines a "bad" cs program?

[stoic ingot]

i think given i'm close to the capital i might have more opportunities than other people

[shut helm]

what ever doesn't give me a 4.0, but i think its very subjective, my uni gets flack for not enough math, some get flack for too much math

[stoic ingot]

doesn't teach enough of what's needed to do well, inconsistent professors

[harsh river]

look at RIT, good school

[stoic ingot]

i'm already committed

[harsh river]

i'd say it's the opposite ironically

[supple sphinx]

depends on school

[harsh river]

upstate NY has some decent schools but them being close to albany don't magically make them better

[brittle iron]

Hello. Can anyone tell me approximately how much such a bot can cost?

Bot. There are functions such as: creating a request, edit request, search request by last name, delete request.
Additionally created buttons repay (for convenience), so that you do not enter commands manually.
In a separate config file created variables for storing bot token and admin id.
Also added additional exception handlers, so that there were no any significant errors when used by the user. There is no database. Implementation time: 24 hours +-

[supple sphinx]

what kind of bot?
discord bot or what

[fringe sphinx]

"Implementation time: 24 hours"? What?

[brittle iron]

It's a telegram bot

[stoic ingot]

oh somebody also said the cs major is not beginner friendly

[fringe sphinx]

What does that mean?

[stoic ingot]

that if you know nothing you'll struggle

[supple sphinx]

that depends on hosting provider
but you can run tg bot using your pc (issue: not 24/7 unless you keep it on)

[fringe sphinx]

Most cs majors know nothing.

[brittle iron]

Yes. It's development time. There's very little time given

[fringe sphinx]

They're saying: do this in 24 hours?

[brittle iron]

Yes, 24 hour +-

[fringe sphinx]

Sounds like someone who'll never pay.

[shut helm]

take 50% upfront maybe?

[brittle iron]

He offered payment in advance

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know how to do it?

[stoic ingot]

think informatics is a better major for me anyway

[supple sphinx]

if you have enough experience id say $20-$50

[fringe sphinx]

Because this is a very incomplete requirement spec..

[fringe sphinx]

How could you say that? You don't know what it's supposed to do

[shut helm]

good luck wish the best stay safe

[supple sphinx]

i based on the feature and the development time

[fringe sphinx]

Just don't let that stop you from practicing coding!

[stoic ingot]

i'm here, right

[brittle iron]

I've already done that. But what confused me was that it was not the customer but a person who knows the customer and he said that the customer would contact through him. The price called 1000 rubles, which is approximately equal to 13 dollars

[supple sphinx]

sounds like outsourcing

[stoic ingot]

my resume's also pretty mediocre so it's a skill i can add

[brittle iron]

yeah

[fringe sphinx]

Make sure support or maintenance isn't included: give them a firm test/acceptance period. If they accept it, then your job is done.

[stoic ingot]

i'm a transfer from cc

[brittle iron]

Yup, I said that I am not in the business of deploying the bot to hosting and also not in the business of further support. And he agreed.

[still condor]

13 dollars does sound like a suspiciously low price for developing anything at all

[stoic ingot]

senior status actually allows you to get an internship if you have good grades

[harsh river]

depends on the country, they mentioned russia

[brittle iron]

Well, in European countries, most likely. In Russia, the rates are different. I agreed for the reason that I am a high school student, and therefore it is difficult for me to find suitable orders without having a full-fledged portfolio. But I'll keep those prices in mind for next time

[still condor]

1000 rubles is a day's (8h) worth of minimum wage work before taxes

[fringe sphinx]

A very good way to build a revenue stream is to sell follow up services: they want support or changes? Charge them. They want deployment? Charge them, etc.

[still condor]

a high school student or someone looking for their first paid work could charge that, I guess

[pine sleet]

yeah pretty much. from what i see as a current CS student that's what I and most other people are doing
its hard to know what the "right ones" are

the skills are usually tarnsferrable anyway

[strong lava]

talking about internships: is there an ideal time for how early one can start looking for one? I thought about looking ASAP but that might not be a good idea since I just started like a month ago
I know that I also shouldn't wait too long especially because of my university's requirements (required/supervised internships)
I live in Brazil and I know this varies by region, but I'd still like to see opinions. I'm thinking I start looking after I survive the first 2 semesters

[fringe sphinx]

Do you truly believe there's actually an answer to this? (I don't)

[brittle iron]

Yes, they do. But from the beginning they said budget up to $13. That's ridiculous, frankly. So I took the maximum - just 13 dollars purely for development, without any support, deployment and so on

[fringe sphinx]

I'm proposing: sell (actually convince them) that they need more services from you. Turn that first $ into more $$$$ over time.

[brittle iron]

I think that this person was taking the order himself but decided to do it through me, just giving what percent of the money for the work to me. Because that's weird:

1. I couldn't get in touch with the customer directly.
2. it's only $13 dollars and that's the maximum budget they have.
3. realization time: 24 hours +-
   Although this person's profile doesn't look like he usually does development work

[brittle iron]

I'll try it

Thanks

[stoic ingot]

i can't do an internship rn

[remote crater]

That's fucking insane

[pine sleet]

how

[smoky quest]

Generally speaking, you can look at any time of the year.
But right now, in the northern hemisphere, summer time is a popular holiday time where less people will work. You are more likely to see them starting August as employees come back to their jobs from summer vacations.

August-November is a great seasons for looking for internships as many companies will put their internship ads for the year+1 at that time and try to close everything before thanksgiving (november). So that means ads are put out in August, and then make offers by october/november so that's it's all done in time.

But end of year until January/Feb also has some internships.
Beyond Feb, you will notice less and less internships as it gets quite close to the actual internship

[smoky quest]

If things feel random and disconnected, I would suggest to talk about it with your teachers.
It's a smell you are missing some connections and context and fundamentals about the topics

Worth also looking online for "<confusing_topic> jobs". It should come back with some concrete examples

[remote crater]

I GRADUATED FROM SCHOOL.

[smoky quest]

💀

[remote crater]

What's "fundamental" about knowing Kubernetes, or random blockchain things, or web development frameworks? WHY would you know any of it as some solo developer who isn't interested in cryptocurrency, isn't interested in web design, and hasn't ever worked for a company that's deploying large and highly complex pieces of software?

[smoky quest]

These are all great questions.
There is a lot of leg work to do to google these terms, trying to understand why people care about them and what problems they do solve

[remote crater]

NO JUST TEACH IT TO ME IN COLLEGE

[smoky quest]

that would be a waste of time.
With what college teaches you, you can pick these up in an afternoon

[pine sleet]

theres like a new js framework every day why would they teach you one

[true harness]

there is an argument for bs cs degrees including more practical topics, but right now, college teaches fundamentals. kubernetes builds off of containerization, which builds off of things you would have learned in your OS course. if you spend a little time googling the things you are confused about, i'm sure you would be able to pick them up quickly

[smoky quest]

And note these did not existed 10 years ago (or at least, not as popular). So there was nothing and no one to teach kubernetes.
As a software engineer, you will have to learn and keep up with new technologies on your own and for the rest of your career. So it's very useful to learn to learn so you aren't left behind with technologies from your graduation year

[balmy spade]

That feels more than a bit disingenuous. If you could pick up all there was for, say, Kurbunetes in an afternoon it wouldn't be on a hiring requirement.

You can get the high level understand of what it is. Having appliable skill in using it? That takes a bit more than an afternoon.

[pine sleet]

that's why if you work on a variety of different kinds of projects you're bound to end up using or learning something that your job would require of you

[smoky quest]

The bar is not to pick up all there is for. the bar is to pick up enough to get rolling. No one mentions or requires people to be expert on their first day
Picking up enough of k8s in an afternoon to setup kubectl and deploy a service to put the pieces together is commonly done in an afternoon.

[pine sleet]

for kubernetes in particular, i didnt know much about it until i joined a project that used it and now i can handle myself pretty well with kubernetes and pick up new stuff in it if i have to

[smoky quest]

I would also encourage you to chill with words like disingenuous which do not make you stand out in a great light

[balmy spade]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not too concerned about what light I stand in with you. When your own words seemed to trivialize something that isn't trivial, I felt the need to speak up.

[smoky quest]

So you feel the need to:

• Insult people by stating they lack candor
• Speak up against something that is expected of and engineers do every day. If you feel the bar is too high, hate the system, not the messenger

My main advice here is if it was difficult for you to pick up kubernetes, then you might have been lacking some fundamentals or not used to self learn, or be impressed with something that isn't that deep and been overwhelmed.

Hope it helps! And regardless, what matters is that you learn and progress. Everything else is secondary. So do not hesitate to ask questions about what is troubling you or confusing you in the appropriate topical channel. Plenty of people will be there to help.

[harsh river]

Isn’t that what BS SWE degrees are for?

CS for the theoretical
SWE for the applied

With the stuff you mentioned belonging in SWE

[smoky quest]

True. But the main issues I see there:

• This is US centric. Some other countries do not have that distinction
• Going to SWE for the applied creates a risk of going there because of a rejection of theory to focus solely on the practical aspects. That makes people more technicians than engineers and make them miss on their best selves. Obviously this is full of nuance.

[pine sleet]

the curriculum isnt too different ime

[harsh river]

It’s not US centric anymore, more and more I see universities in LATAM make more and more distinction between what degrees are actually meant to be used for

It’s been a problem in LATAM that there was a single degree for everything tech related, from IT support, to tech support ( as in actually fixing the mechanical / repairing things) to DSA / CS / SWE and have started to distinguish between what a degree is meant for I.e CS for applied, SWE for applied, DS for DS and such

[smoky quest]

So you are saying it's America centric

[harsh river]

That depends a lot on the college IME

[harsh river]

No because LATAM has learned from what the US and has started to apply these sort of things , and from what I’ve heard, other countries are picking up on it

This is all very recent I.e in the last 5 years and to a lesser extent, before that

[smoky quest]

Still seems mostly concerned with countries that are located in the American continent 🤔

[harsh river]

Because I’m only speaking from what I’ve had experience with, I could also say the same for other countries outside the American continent but that’d all be anecdotal

My coworker from Singapore told me that in his country they make distinctions for example

[smoky quest]

Sure, and other countries also have degrees related to IT, networking, DS, etc. and have had that for decade

[harsh river]

You said it’s US centric, I’m clarifying

[smoky quest]

Countries may also slice and dice things differently. For instance until 3years past high school, there is a focus on the technician/practical side.

[smoky quest]

You did:

It’s not US centric anymore, more and more I see universities in LATAM

US is on the American continent.
LATAM is on the American continent.
Thus, we might conclude #career-advice message

[stoic ingot]

i wish i did cs classes at my cc

[harsh river]

Sure

[true harness]

maybe, but the average bs swe degree i've seen is just a weaker cs program. i don't think you need courses on frameworks or libraries. while it might take longer than an afternoon to learn, it's definitely doable

[mint oracle]

Hii I have an interview at oliver wyman for data science role!!

can u share some insights!! Not able to find any insights/ques asked etc .. for data science role in oliver wyman

[remote crater]

Wtf is a "software engineering degree"? I remember asking about something like that at my college and they just said there's nothing like that and there's only a CS degree.

[pine sleet]

its a relatively new degree whose goal is to have a more "practical" aspect to it

[icy pagoda]

it's not just in America; a lot of countries have a SWE degree now

although making a degree "practical" oriented has the problem that those practicals might get outdated

however, I don't think they do focus on the practical aspects too much, they have the same fundamental subjects of compiler design, operating systems, computer architecture and so on. Specialized subjects are where they differ (parallel computing, deep learning etc)

[fleet iris]

Any one trying for a faang job?

How are you preparing or how much should we prepare

[stable vortex]

I have started preparing for off-campus placements after my final year project oral exam finished,applying to 2-3 companies daily on internshala,Linkedln but not getting shortlisted or any response from the HR's ,and even if I get the response they say that it will take them 30 days to inform me if i am shortlisted for the company or not .

[stable vortex]

I did,n't get placement through on-campus because i had low cgpa of 7

[stable vortex]

Well you should master DSA and solve leetcode problems daily in order to crack faang companies

[tardy kite]

anyone have any tips for a beginner web-dev?

[full plume]

how do i start making money from python

i tried starting a fiver but i dont have an ID yet

idk where else to look

[balmy mural]

The standard approach would be to get a degree and then start a job afterwards.
If you're still in school and just want some extra money, normal retail jobs would be the easiest way to make money

[full plume]

but like lets say i need like about 800 dollars by start of september and i cant work a retail job what should i do?

[spare mulch]

I jsut got to university i chsoe computer science and engineering. i want to know what to do to get a good job by the end of 4years

[quartz gate]

hi guys, so I have a question?

But it has details so bare with me.

I've got this pattern I've noticed in coding? When I find a problem that I don't know about or understand , it stresses me out and I resort to googling or asking A.I. (I don't ask it to provide code) Will doing Harvards CS51 open course help me with this problem?

[balmy mural]

Don't just expect uni classes alone to be enough. Attend university events where you can meet more people, build up a good network.
Do more that what's covered in classes, delve deeper into class projects that required, work on a variety of different types of projects on your own as well. That way you can also figure out if you're interested in game dev, robotics, web dev, data science, etc.

[balmy mural]

Then you're in a hard spot. Most people who freelance as their fulltime jobs have degrees, experience, connections, and an extensive network.

[spare mulch]

my uni starts mid august so i want to be prepared by coding i just started python and im learning about strings rn. anything else i should try (i use w3books)

[rapid holly]

Yeah but What if like there are robots in those events?

Talking about university events

[full plume]

then what do u suggest?

[rapid holly]

Ai hype bros and all that stuff

[stoic ingot]

is informatics enough to get a good job

[balmy mural]

!res
Lots of people will go into uni knowing nothing. So you're already on a good start. I'm not familiar with w3books, but all of the reaouces listed here are great ones to start with. I think CS50 would especially be useful in prepping for university

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[rapid holly]

Don't use that site

[stoic ingot]

what's wrong w/ it

[rapid holly]

It's bad

[stoic ingot]

in what way

[spare mulch]

what to do?

[rapid holly]

Ad heavy experience
And its private

Unlike mdn or official docs etc...

[spare mulch]

what site to use? please guide me

[balmy mural]

If w3books is the aame as w3schools then yes, it's not a great resource

[rapid holly]

Guitar just pinged check that out
And make projects have fun

[spare mulch]

the cs50 book from oreilly?

[rapid holly]

How much python do you already know?

[spare mulch]

basics until strings in w3schools

[rapid holly]

Have you seen this.

[balmy mural]

!res
CS50P or Automate the Boring Stuff is what I'd reccomend if you're not familiar with programming at all yet

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[rapid holly]

Why you spamming

[spare mulch]

yea

[rapid holly]

https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
This contains free ebooks as well, don't pay to learn programming, just code a bunch you'll be fine

[balmy mural]

I'd suggest retail work, but if that isn't an option for you, I don't have other suggestions

[full plume]

nun the less thanks

[spare mulch]

like i can learn from ytube too?

[rapid holly]

You can do anything you want lol?

[balmy mural]

CS50P Does have a YT playlist if you would prefer video learning material

[stoic ingot]

in which way

[wraith harbor]

the part where you struggle with a problem and then figure it out on your own is the learning. and yes the cs50 course provides you all the info you need to solve their questions, you dont need to go to AI

[wraith harbor]

when i looked at it ive noticed they frequently leave out info and the examples are kinda bad

[stoic ingot]

yeah i didn't like it

the way the site works in general

[wraith harbor]

they show up first on every google result its kinda annoying

[quartz gate]

No, no I don't want to use A.I. to solve their questions. I CURRENTLY use A.I. when I struggle too much with a problem. I WANT to engage with the cs50 course because while my background of cs has the core principles, data structures, algorithms, etc, I'm missing one thing : Problem solving, mutating things on my own in my head when it comes to programming.

I want to use the course because A.I. and google are a crutch that I'm growing sick of but my brain doesn't know how to figure things out.

[proud glacier]

How do you define "too much"?

[quartz gate]

Okay, I'll give you an example. One sec.

So, I was supposed to make a class called HTMLNode for my static web page maker, and it needed the following data members set in its constructor:
tag - A string representing the HTML tag name (e.g. "p", "a", "h1", etc.)
value - A string representing the value of the HTML tag (e.g. the text inside a paragraph)
children - A list of HTMLNode objects representing the children of this node
props - A dictionary of key-value pairs representing the attributes of the HTML tag. For example, a link (<a> tag) might have {"href": "https://www.google.com" }

Now, this all looked fine but props as a data member confused me and so did children.

First thing I did was ask Boots, the helpful A.I. assistant in my course what children and props were supposed to hold. Now, it seems obvious now because Boots explained that children were just a list of HTMLNode objects.

Like, when there is something in front of me I don't understand, my brain glazes over and starts going elsewhere.

[unique rose]

Hi I am beginner here currently sy mechanical student but I want to start with python I want to know how to approach python like from basic to advance I wany clarity or smth roadmap or yt lecture help

[quartz gate]

Kind of like when you read a textbook and you forget what you just read because while your eyes are on the page, my head is not.

[proud glacier]

Did this AI even give you any new information? It seems to have just restated the definition that you were initially given?

[quartz gate]

That's the thing, the information was there.... I just couldn't really understand it because of where my headspace was when reading it...?

Or maybe a combination of fear, haste to code and anger (Not at the code) was rurining my headspace now that i think about it....

[proud glacier]

If I'm reading something but not really absorbing it, like you said, I just take a break or sleep to clear my mind. It's more effective than one would think.

[unique rose]

Where I can get reply for this @proud glacier

[quartz gate]

Well, I'll keep that in mind.

[proud glacier]

Python Discord Resources

[proud glacier]

What about CS50? What does "too much struggle" look like there?

[balmy mural]

!res
You can have a look at the resources page. My personal suggestion is to start with Automate the Boring stuff. If you want videos, you can also filter by that

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[unique rose]

Thank you sir

[balmy mural]

You're not going to absorb things the first time you read it. You start remembering by doing. So if you need to look at documentation or google how something works the first few time you use it, that's pretty normal.

[quartz gate]

sigh I regret my University experience.... If I ever get a masters, its going to be someplace else.

Sorry, all of this just has me a lil triggered, anyway thx Guitar and Bharawwaj Raju.

[quartz gate]

To answer your question, this looks like something I'd shut down and start googling / asking A.I. for help on :

Mind you , I haven't GOTTEN to this point in the course yet, so this is my ignorance flaring up.

[proud glacier]

Is this CS50Web?

[near ocean]

Those instructions are pretty clear though, whats AI going to do to help other than give you the code

[quartz gate]

yes.

[proud glacier]

If your goal is just to exercise basic problem-solving you might get more out of either CS50 or CS50P (for Python)

[quartz gate]

Wait, this isn't CS50?

[misty kiln]

Hi guys! Any guide recommendations for python beginners with 0 previos experience. I would like to start learning from 0. Any advices, guides are welcome. Thanks in advance

[proud glacier]

CS50 has multiple like "allied courses"
there's classic CS50/CS50X which teaches you basic programming through the medium of C
there's CS50P which does the same but through Python
then CS50W (Web), CS50AI

[balmy mural]

!res
You can have a look at the resources page. My personal suggestion is to start with Automate the Boring stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[analog sun]

Check out our resources page, Byte of Python and Automate the Boring Stuff are good ones to start with https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/

[quartz gate]

yes instructions are clear, but there are other tasks underneath the instructions. For examplee, "Make a website using HTML/CSS/Javascript" is clear, but to someone unfamiliar with web development, the question of "Where is step 1"? comes up, and that's where I start freaking out, lol. X.x;

[misty kiln]

Thanks! I will take a look

[proud glacier]

It appears to be referencing some earlier index.html they had you make, so presumably this makes more sense in context

[spare mulch]

alright thx

[signal oar]

Hey,
i feel i am at a big disadvantage then. i would be graduating in 1-2years i think. but due to some physical problems i was not able look for internships or make good connections.
at this point am just focussed on getting my degree and look for jobs after graduating
some of my class mates got to internships. but i couldn't

[faint depot]

One thing I bloody hate with companies is the fact that they reject you and then don’t give feedback or they reject you and say they can’t give any feedback because theyre too busy. I’ve literally been rejected to all of my apprenticeship vacancies bar 2. And I cant find a job quick to enough so Ill be able to afford tuition fees for uni

[upper dagger]

i might use c++

i dont know shit of what yall talking bout

[analog sun]

Alrighty, is that relevant for this channel, #career-advice ?

Maybe #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval is a better place

[upper dagger]

WTF IS THAT but thx

[nocturne kiln]

where can i go if i want to lean for beginners

im familiar with python but if i want to deeper

[analog sun]

#python-discussion is a good place

[mint oracle]

I am not able to find about interview process of oliver wyman for data science role.

Anyone knows about ow interview process for data science role. It can help me!!

[uncut sierra]

hey guys, would someone (w a job) do me a favor and review my resume?

[wraith harbor]

you should start working on projects in your free time that you can put on your resume. ask yourself how your resume can stand out from the thousands of other new grads out there

[white relic]

The easiest way is usually to take a screenshot, censor (black out / erase) any personally identifying information like your name, address, etc. and post the screenshot in this channel.
You might not get an immediate response but the channel isn't super active, so people will usually see it eventually

[mint oracle]

Damn i am totally cooked mostly consulting companies visit ur campus for analyst/data science roles. Not able to find interview ques of them on internet!!

[signal oar]

yes i should. am thinking of targeting offcampus placements

also i had to take about 1-2 year break in my studies due to the above problems

would that be a problem
i think i should stop worrying about all of my drawbacks

[cobalt mountain]

I’m a complete beginner, any suggestions how I should start

[near ocean]

Ask for resources in #python-discussion

[teal flare]

hey @misty kiln

[misty kiln]

hey bro! What's good

[fast tusk]

Hello

Im completely new, just wondering if its possible to get into cybersecurity if im horrid in physics...

[peak halo]

Why would those be connected?

[kindred oyster]

absolutely

[unkempt depot]

Hello

[fast tusk]

I just heard from alot of people mentioning physics is a required subject...

[glad quarry]

what should i do

I'm begginer

[peak halo]

Hello, please read #❓｜how-to-get-help

[stoic girder]

no you don’t at all - it really depends what side of it you would like to go to - for example if you are designing physical equipment and measuring the required trajectory etc etc - but as long as you are building software for cyber attacks personally then you should be fine

[lyric kayak]

Hey to everyone

[carmine heart]

Hey

[analog sun]

No, this server is not for recruitment or ads

[nocturne kiln]

What do I tell them

[vestal gust]

I might be down. Wanna DM me with more info?

[rustic marsh]

Hi, I am a senior python developer

I wanna get my friends here

[hearty island]

yall i got an offer!

[near ocean]

nice, how does it compare to the ubs one

[hearty island]

about $60k more 🗿

[wraith harbor]

nice thats huge

[hearty island]

yessir

[next plover]

not saying you should but i almost didnt graduate highschool for failing and got into cyber...

[molten spoke]

@warm agate please see rule 9

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[quartz gate]

@proud glacier I did it, I read the instructions and implemented something today I have no experience with and didn't ask the A.I. for help.

So to celebrate this auspicious occasion, I rewarded myself with alcohol and Jalapeno chips. ^^

[stable vortex]

Good Morning guys,I am trying to build an AI Calculator and everytime I do addition it shows me error

[molten spoke]

see #1035199133436354600 🙂

@stable vortex please check #❓｜how-to-get-help and #1035199133436354600, this is not the correct channel.

[undone ledge]

I was C++ engineer, but I am thinking about changing my job to a web developer.
In job interview, they asked me about AI, so after job interview I was thinking about future.

What will the future hold for IT engineers if AI coding becomes more advanced?
I think that, in the future, all coding and even its review will be done by AI.
Even testing.
What kind of people will be needed in such a future?

What do u think?

[peak halo]

code generation AIs are trained on code that was written by humans. if humans were to entirely stop writing code, those AIs wouldn't be able to keep up with changes in what sorts of programs people want to have written.

yesterday, I even asked ChatGPT to help me use uv (which is a very new programming tool by generative AI standards), and it repeatedly gave me incorrect instructions.

[undone ledge]

So, humans need to keep writing code, because once humans stop coding, the growth of AI will stop there, too🤔

[undone ledge]

Damn, I guess he didn't learn the new technology 😂

[peak halo]

if a bespoke programming thing is created (like a new kind of database, or something), it's challenging for an LLM to "understand" it until there's an abundance of correct examples of using that thing for it to learn from.

[undone ledge]

I think so too.
However, when it comes to creating some system using existing technology, I feel that in a world where AI is quite advanced, all that is needed is a PM who can write a prompt that AI can correctly understand the specifications🗿

[quartz gate]

Bro, you're literally a demigod asking how to become ea mortal.

[remote crater]

C++ isn't that bad, web development is worse.

Actually I guess it would depend what you're doing with C++.

But I'd rather blow my brains out than do web development again.

[vapid jay]

whats up guys, i want to learn python, but im questioning is it better to learn then C#? Is it more reliable, faster, or more demand in the work space? compared to game devlopment, web development, stuff like that

[fringe sphinx]

Python is a widely used popular language used for many types of problems. Many people use it professionally, and its also a popular first language in Universities

https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

[undone ledge]

I see🤔
I was making map systems by using C++, but it was bored🗿

[quartz gate]

Frieren is pure evil and Aura did nothing wrong.

[undone ledge]

Are u Aura fan?😮

[quartz gate]

I'm a fan of good villains.

Like in Kagurabachi Hirohiko is my favorite character. Chihiro needs to get RID of him. Else that little found family he collected is going to be found in pieces.

[zenith portal]

Just curious, why do you not like web development? Is there anything good about it? I love C++ and wish I could do more as it used to be my main language.

[undone ledge]

Me too, C++ is good language, but I would like to do more creative things.

[proud glacier]

🙌 nice!

[tough sky]

Ye creativity + techniques

But C++ is ultra based language because it is suitable for everything. Web can only assist like

[still condor]

@subtle nacelle Please read our rules and the channel description. We do not have a place to ask for jobs

[queen wadi]

Hi hazel

I am sr software engineer who is proficient in python, lets connect.

[peak halo]

Hello, this server isn't a place to "connect" as it pertains to finding jobs. You might try LinkedIn.

[sand hawk]

still the fastest buffer overflows on the market /s

[next plover]

My C code is unmatched with vulnerabilities 😎

[sand hawk]

thanks for providing us with jobs ❤️

I should emulate you

[teal flare]

hello, everybody

I am back

[fringe sphinx]

Appreciate your interest in the community, but we don't allow recruiting. Your post has been deleted.

If you want to discuss your project or ask for ideas, just do so in #python-discussion

[wraith harbor]

These people just emailed me back asking if I was still looking for a job...

[true harness]

that is odd. might as well answer, maybe they have a different position

although, based on how they kinda roasted you it is understandable if you don't

[remote crater]

I hate HTML and CSS. I can't make things look good.

[true harness]

lots of stuff to be done on the backend. and with things like static site rendering, frontend is very easy these days if you want it to be

[remote crater]

And anything more flashy than 4chan or the old version of Reddit just looks gaudy and shitty to me.

[wraith harbor]

They probably thought they could get someone better but that person turned them down. Kind of a disorganized group. But I'm willing to debase myself for bigger money 🤑

[wraith harbor]

I always hated front end. Luckily there are lots of better niches imo

[near ocean]

Time to ask for 1.5x as much?
(Dont actually, but now is the time to negotiate if ever)

[remote crater]

I remember working with HTML, and I'd get everything centered and stuff, put some borders around things, and I'd think "alright, looks good". Then I'd look at the page the next day, and my teammates added a bunch of crazy gradients, and everything was fading it when you scroll to it. And I'd just think "wait, that looks better?"

So if you don't have an eye for that type of thing, it sucks.

[next plover]

average web dev

🔥 🔥 THE WEBPAGE IS NOT USING ENOUGH RAM 🔥 🔥

[near ocean]

as a webdev allegedly, I've not had to dedicate any sort of brain power to making up fancy designs for customer facing sites
there's always a UX doc to follow, there are entire departments that work on this shit, its not my job
for internal tools, people dont care either way

[gritty orchid]

Honestly, since BotGhost is at the verge of shutting down, I want to start learning how to code a Discord bot with interactive commands, buttons, events, and preferably making use of ComponentsV2. I've been considering both discord.py and discord.js but I don't know which one will fit me best. Does anyone have any advice for me?

[wraith harbor]

both are valid, and you might get more information in their respective servers. but really it comes down to do you want to get better at python, or js? thats up to you

[gritty orchid]

So feature-wise, neither have limitations when it comes to Discord application development?

[pine sleet]

correct

[gritty orchid]

Thank you!

[fringe sphinx]

I feel seen. Next step up is training models from browser... almost there

[remote crater]

do you still need to be really good at leetcode to get hired anywhere?

I can't even figure out the O(1) space solution to the "buying and selling stock" question.

[lilac yoke]

@molten spoke you see the new cloudflare containers?

[wanton birch]

How long have you been doing it for?

[next plover]

im interested fr

they look neat

[remote crater]

That one question, or leetcode stuff in general?
I'm stuck on the question, I can't do it. I've tried practicing leetcode a few times, but it always devolves into me getting completely stuck on most questions for hours and needing to look up the answer.

It's really demoralizing.

[lavish violet]

There is a quite a few places that don't do hard leetcode and some that don't even ask leetcode questions. I would take a look at smaller companies and non-tech F500 companies

[wanton birch]

Don’t spend hours per question. Try it for 15-20 mins. Then go find the solution explanation. You can find lots of videos on YouTube explaining optimal solutions in details.

I am trying to learn too. My strategy now is to first go through as many problems with this method as possible. This way I will recognise usual patterns and appropriate algos or clever tricks.

[woeful depot]

Hello guys , I'm Abiah
I’m not here to blend in,I’m here to grow, evolve, and inspire. I’m a student with a clear vision and a business that funds my education and lifestyle. Every step I take is intentional, and every move I make is building toward the life I see in my mind.

Luxury isn’t just what I wear or own,it’s how I think, how I move, and how I treat myself and others. Discipline, independence, and elevation are non negotiables.

I’m here to connect with like minded individuals who value growth, abundance, and excellence. If you’re creating your dream life brick by brick, we’re already aligned.

[peak halo]

hello and welcome. this isn't linkedin, so you can act like a normal human here.

[deft herald]

No offense, but it sounds like you're about to pitch an MLM scheme or something like that

[peak halo]

To be clear, you are welcome here and no one is laughing at you.

[long osprey]

Yo

[zenith portal]

I like being able to see front end and UX is interesting area in itself. I'd quite like to explore the different technologies more when I get time and resources

[near ocean]

If you were to pick a tech company randomly and apply, chances are you'll need to pass a leetcode type tech interview
So, yes

[remote crater]

I guess I'll just lay down and die then.

[remote crater]

Just looking at the solution doesn't help, you're supposed to come up with the solution automatically. That's what they expect in interviews.

Everything makes sense after it's been explained, but the interviewers want you to come up with the solutions yourself.

[tidal gazelle]

Hi
Would anyone here be able to help me choose between these courses at university “Computer Science and Software Engineering MEng”
Or “Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Computer Science BSc”

I checked the program content and for like the first two years I think they are the exact same,
But my question is since the software eng one is like a more broad program, does it mean there’s more job security?

[near ocean]

It takes practice, youre not going to be able to solve the problems first time without it

Do a couple leetcodes a day and eventually they'll be easier to solve

You'll start recognizing patterns, you'll be more confident in implementing common algos, etc

[remote crater]

Sometimes there are things that are just beyond someone's mental capacity. I shouldn't be struggling so hard with easy difficulty questions, especially when neetcode outright tells you what technique to use.

Maybe you're right and I'm just not trying hard enough, but I'm feeling pessimistic about that. It shouldn't be this hard.

[near ocean]

These things take time
How long have you been practicing

[remote crater]

A long time
On and off

[near ocean]

Well there's your problem, leetcode needs consistency

You didn't get your degree by attending lectures, studying, taking exams "on and off"
You're not gonna keep a job if you work it "on and off"
Why would this be any different

[remote crater]

I guess we'll see if that's the case. It'll either start clicking or it won't.

[molten spoke]

ya looks interesting

Don't think I'll use it much

[hearty island]

i'm realizing that the crypto firm that offered me is super risky

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/falconx-settles-cftc-1-8m-193134233.html

i mean, $1.8M is pocket change to them

it's just from a regulatory lens i'm not very happy

[uncut sierra]

Could someone please critizise my resume? Point out ways I can improve? Targetting roles at Google / FAANG. 20 y/o . 3rd year at University | Based in Australia.

[verbal acorn]

absolute cinema id probably replace the sports section with something more related to what ur aiming to work towards\

[hearty island]

oooh AML

[white relic]

presumably that's why they're hiring regulatory experience?

[hearty island]

yep, but i’m feeling this dread that they’re trying to do stuff that isn’t entirely ethical

[white relic]

definitely not impossible

using the word "crypto" is the first clue

/hj

[near ocean]

Is it unethical or does it simply come with an additional "government fine" charge?

[white relic]

It can be two things

[uncut sierra]

i'm not allowed to list the clients (due to NDA) but it's pretty imp. and can defo impact the country.

[uncut sierra]

nor exactly what the nature of work is e.g title of project.

[vapid jay]

do u think guys i can be a backend dev using python?

[lilac yoke]

Python has an abundance of web server libraries, it’s a great starting point.

[vapid jay]

good

[rotund kindle]

LeetCode can be really tough, especially at first. It’s not just you.
Even looking at the answer, then walking through it and rewriting it in your own words, will be more productive.

[tidal gazelle]

Sorry but can I bump this

[peak halo]

!cleanban 1386670655185096755 gore

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @distant talon permanently.

[glass ledge]

Is there any combo project of Python and Chemistry?

[rotund kindle]

Sure

[gaunt rain]

guys, why would a company ask my stackoverflow, wordpress, github account?

[peak halo]

idk why they'd ask for your wordpress account (idk what that is), but they might want to see if you can answer programming questions or if you have open source contributions.
is this an optional field in a job application?

[gaunt rain]

its a mandatory one

[peak halo]

I would just enter "NA" or something if you don't have values for those.

[olive coral]

do both

[tidal gazelle]

Not sure if you’re joking or…

[olive coral]

trust

[whole summit]

anyone got any idea how do i get into research part of cs? like publish my own papers and potentially land fully funded phd scholarship

[true harness]

ask your professors this question. they can tell you about specific programs your school has

[wanton birch]

That’s where you are mistaken. Think about this as learning mathematics. You are not supposed to randomly go in and get everything right. You attempt the problems and realise what you suck at by looking at how the solution is done.

You make mistakes over and over again but you learn from the solution over and over again. There should come a time, when your brain finally learns enough essential patterns to apply those types of solutions on its own without any solutions.

[noble glacier]

I got an interview for something because I said I was good at working with google sheets api. got cooked in the interview because all the learning and code writing I've done with google sheets api has been straight vibe coding. I was asked basic questions I couldn't answer. didn't get the position. I'm fairly certain whatever they would've wanted me to do I could've done had I just used AI because I've built some decent projects in the past. I'm able to read docs and learn I'm just lazy. why does knowing the little things even matter nowadays when you can prompt AI to just do it for you in a second?

why don't interviews nowadays lean towards asking people questions to assess their AI prompting abilities? I'm not trolling

[next plover]

Because the second you step into a complex business system AI crumbles

There are so many cases where you need to manually do something because it's an edge case or not standard

AI doesn't have the critical thinking to manage that in a large scale complex system

[noble glacier]

yeah ig that makes sense

[next plover]

And here's the thing, sure you can prompt ai to do something simple, what happens when something goes down and you need to fix it without internet

[noble glacier]

yeah, makes sense

I mean if internet went down and no AI or documentation available then there's little I could probably code

but AI going down I guess isn't the total end of the world if I had docs to work with

[next plover]

Yes but if you went through understanding a system you would have better critical thinking skills to debug it

[near ocean]

why would they hire anyone if you could just ask AI to do the work

[noble glacier]

yeah makes total sense

[next plover]

LLMs have recently been proven to absolutely cook your problem solving skills it's kind of scary

Like your brain goes dumb

[noble glacier]

yeah, I've heard. I guess I'm just gonna learn the old fashion way. thanks

[glass ledge]

Hello, I am software engineer with the Solid background knowledge about the Chemistry.(I am not beginner or some middle school graduate in Chemistry.)
For the IT side, I am proficient with Java Springboot, .NET, and Python and can do some frontend works, and have experience with integration with AI, prompt engineering and work flow automation. I also experienced with Cloud technology and DevOps, and proficient with methodology like Agile/Scrum and Kanban.
For the Chemistry side, I expertise in Organic Chemistry, Polymer Chemistry, and proficient with Chemistry Processing and have real experience like Process Optimizing of Fibre Production and Designing the Cooling System of the Reactor.
I want to contribute some great project related to Chemistry.

[peak halo]

have you thought about getting a masters in chemical engineering, or something like that?

[wind pike]

anyone know how to be rich ik everyone says just get a job like software engineer and you get paid 100k a year i want 100k a week or month

[glass ledge]

I want to success in real world, then I can complete my Master's degree.

[deft herald]

i want 100k a week or month
I too want to know how to achieve this. My ears are open 😉

[wind pike]

idk how to all i know is what a saas is and a tech startup requires multiple people

[peak halo]

everyone says to just get a job like software engineer because that's the most reliable path to stable success.
the high-risk, high-reward approach is to do a startup.
it seems like you already know the answer to your question.

[wind pike]

a startup?

[peak halo]

yes.

[wind pike]

whats that exactly

[peak halo]

where you start up a new tech company with venture capital funds.

[wind pike]

and why dont i just code it all myself

[peak halo]

if you think you have an idea that a venture capitalist will want to fund, and you think you can do it yourself, and you think you can convince them that you can do it, then sure.

[wind pike]

invest in what

[peak halo]

these are all huge IFs that are usually false.

[peak halo]

your idea. you have to come up with one that you think will generate a lot of revenue.

[wind pike]

invest in what though

they invest in me getting people to code for me or marketing or what?
\

[peak halo]

you. they give money to you to give you resources to develop your idea.

[wind pike]

why cant i code it all myself

[peak halo]

you need to pay for food and a place to live, do you not? and for whatever resources you need for your idea (like marketing and cloud compute)?

[wind pike]

will it be saas or in app purchases or me taking a bit away from each purchase

[true harness]

how much research have you done into your ideas to make money?

[peak halo]

don't ask me, I'm just a pope mod guy with a 9-5 job.

[wind pike]

ok main question is do i need to study business or do i just computer sciencef

[peak halo]

you don't necessarily need any formal education. you just need to do whatever it takes to convince someone to fund your idea.

based on our conversation, it sounds like you don't have an idea for what technology product would generate the kind of revenue you have in mind

[wind pike]

thats not my money though i need to return that with my stocks

[wind pike]

i have in mind something

what if i just did business not tech

or idk just used chatgpt to do the code for me

[near ocean]

probably wouldnt make a good product

[fringe sphinx]

If it made it easily, then why would someone buy it from you?

[wind pike]

ik the software development cycle, good html and css, basic python, and idk how to forge them together

[fringe sphinx]

Building a business is about many factors: identifying customers and their needs is a good starting point.

[wind pike]

analysis stage mhm

[peak halo]

chatgpt basically pieces things together for you from existing code. if chatgpt made your whole code base, it must not do anything very innovative or bespoke.

[wind pike]

if i know how to code a bit i ccan change stuff around

[fringe sphinx]

That's great. Build stuff and learn. And, maybe study / read about business and startups. There's a lot to learn. I like reading case studies like: the history of WhatsApp.

[wind pike]

ehh idk i have a vision

owning a mansion and a rolls royce

[near ocean]

i know of a great course that could teach you how to make 100k a month and other grind-related endeavours

[wind pike]

i think business is nice

ehh

[opal lynx]

Hello guys, I am 17 and a maths student, I want to learn coding in college (will go to college next year) but I am not so interested in maths and actually suck at it so I was wondering does coding require so high maths and is it gonna be hard for an avg student like me to learn how to code?
I think I chose this career for the sake of money it offers I don't know if I find interest in doing what I'll be doing in next 5 years.. or are these just excuses to not work hard? Idk I am confused please help:(

[wanton birch]

I am starting to realise that and planning my way around it

[deft herald]

You shouldn't choose a career based on money alone. If it's not something that interests you, you'll never excel in it.

[near ocean]

you could treat software dev as just a job, it doesnt need to be a passion
it'll probably be harder than if it was a passion though

you need to like it (or put up with it) enough to spend 3/4 years getting a degree

[proper plaza]

hi, I've been trying to figure out how to learn coding for a while now
and this is what I've got after some guides
1.Follow a roadmap (not too strictly but have some direction)
2. After some quick tutorials, apply what you learned to projects
3. Move forward in the roadmap (or try something new) and repeat step 2
does this seem reliable?

[balmy mural]

If your main motivation is money and you don't have any interest, I do think there are better jobs more suited for that that software. Lots of jobs in Finance pay similar where you don't have to at least somewhat keep up with more recent tech. Medical if you're willing to study hard enough also pays big bucks, and if you do general practitioner or dentistry you don't have insane working hours

[near ocean]

both of those careers suffer from terrible working conditions

[balmy mural]

Which is why I specified two fields within medicine that generally don't. I'm not really familiar with working conditions in finance, I just know it pays well

[near ocean]

Every so often there are news stories about financial analysts killing themselves because of stress/other workplace related issues
Dentistry is easier on the working hours but its still quite a bit of studying before you get to make money (you also have to not be squeamish about blood or other gross bodily parts)

By comparison, tech is much easier to get into

[balmy mural]

I think software is a great field to work in if you have some interest in it. I think there's better fields to work in if you have 0 interest in it, but it's still not a bad option

[near ocean]

Chartered accountancy is actually a great career path, no specific educational requirements, just one big fat cert to get and that unlocks big money
You could study and take it on your own time or you could join a firm that will pay for it for you to take

Crazy second link you posted btw, i cant imagine ever feeling stressed at work, not when i was in office 5x at a startup and not now fully remote at a big corpo

[balmy mural]

Yea, I rarely feel stressed as well. I'd imagine game devs probably contribute to that number being higher than expected, but they also don't make up that big a percentage of all jobs in software

[glass hound]

Hey everyone!
I'm practicing Python using just my phone.
I’m currently learning by writing small scripts like:

• file processing
• text parsing
• basic automation
• simple bots

If you have any small non-commercial tasks I could try for practice — feel free to DM me. 🤝
Just looking to learn and build experience 🙂

Yes i use my phone

How i write code in python or what?

Pydroid 3

[vapid jay]

yo i guys can i get rich if i know python c++ and dart/flutter and make 20k a month without going to school?

no

[peak halo]

No. If there were a way to make that much money that's that easy, more people would do it than there is opportunity for it.

[vapid jay]

i’m serious

[vapid jay]

then how much do people make if they know these 3 languages

[peak halo]

what sorts of things to people do with all three of python, c++ and dart/flutter?

[vapid jay]

So the thing i wanna do is make money from programming and then make an app with my friend and sell it for a profit

[vapid jay]

i mean you can make an app

also my friend makes like 15k a month he knows python and c++

[peak halo]

what does he do?

[vapid jay]

he told me to learn these 3 languages

[peak halo]

okay, but what does he do? what kinds of programs does he write?

[vapid jay]

i think object oriented programming i’m new to programming so i don’t know i didn’t ask him

[peak halo]

object oriented programming (OOP) is a programming paradigm. it's not a kind of program.

[vapid jay]

idk tbh but he’s making money

[balmy spade]

The number of languages does not determine a programmer's salary. The field is vast and broad. If you want to make money as a programmer you'll need to start by getting a job as a programmer. That tends to be easier with a degree.

[peak halo]

if something sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is.

[vapid jay]

he showed me his bank account and his dad is also a programmer

[vapid jay]

yeah but in my country the university’s are stupid and just don’t teach you anything

i wanna learn myself and then work and invest until my goal

true but i don’t wanna go abroad to europe or some where better

[balmy spade]

Then you'll need a job while doing that in order to survive, right?

[vapid jay]

yeah free lancing

[balmy spade]

That's not a job. that's a gamble.

[vapid jay]

How?

then how do people make a lot of money without going to schools like programmers

[balmy spade]

In free lancing you are the employee, the marketer, the PR rep, the HR, the sales department, the billing department, and the manager. Your income is entirely dependent on you being able to find a client. If you can't, you don't get paid.
A contract or full-time job is stable income. It allows you to focus more engery toward the larger goal.

[vapid jay]

what about agency?

[balmy spade]

You'll have to explain what you mean.

[vapid jay]

look at this vid

then where do i get real knowledge 🤷?

[balmy spade]

Well, you are talking to people who work in the industry and have all various sorts of experience.

[vapid jay]

IT

[balmy spade]

"Just do these three things" - No. This just calls back to what Stel said. If it sounds too good to be true, it likely is. This video is one step away from "Sign up today for my course on how to earn more." It says nothing and offers less.

[vapid jay]

Listen so here’s what i wanna do i just turned 15 i wanna make money through programming and build an app and then sell it for profit like 10-20m$ i wanna make money through programming and invest it in my app with my friend

[deft herald]

10-20 million?

[balmy spade]

Then keep programming. Keep designing and keep building. Never stop learning either. The education you are turning away from will help you reach your goal.

[vapid jay]

yeah but here’s the problem i wanna be rich before iam 20 i have 5 years

just programming and computer a skill that is useful

i mean that’s my goal i don’t really care about tiktok i have stoped playing video games and gooning iam serious it’s been 4 months

[balmy spade]

Then all of my advice still holds true and you should start reading all the things that you're going to learn in school. Communication. Leadership. Marketing. Finance.

[vapid jay]

ok i have a question are you guys in school?

[deft herald]

Work your ass off doing any job you can now. Take that money, invest it in some good ETF's, don't spend it. Grind and learn programming on your free time and build the skill set you need to be marketable

[balmy spade]

I'm a senior software engineer who still takes courses to learn new things.

[vapid jay]

thank you man i’m gonna take your advice

[balmy spade]

Shoot for the stars, you might hit the moon. Realistic or not, the advice still applies and will be nothing but value for you.

[deft herald]

Give yourself some more time too. Maybe a more realistic goal could be $1m by turning 30. Still very steep IMO but possible if you're diligent and lucky

[vapid jay]

it’s 100% possible i know some rich people that can give me a loan to build an app for 100-200k and sell it for a profit

[balmy spade]

You just have to know how to sell it. (and build it)

[vapid jay]

i will once i learn the languages and im sure God will send someone to help me with my path

[deft herald]

That's not even the hardest part either

[vapid jay]

i still have a long way to go 5 years

[deft herald]

hardest part is figuring out an idea for an app that would be profitable

[vapid jay]

i have so many

i think the idea is already in the bag

[deft herald]

oh yeah?

[vapid jay]

i’m gonna share some that aren’t the best it’s like the lows

i don’t wanna share the good ones these are the ones that are less likely to work

[wraith harbor]

Why would you need a loan?

[vapid jay]

so let’s say i’m a consumer and i need an app that i can put custom notifications for myself like drinking water going gym or going outside like a reminder

[wraith harbor]

Phones have that built in already

[near ocean]

its called a todo app

[vapid jay]

to build the app and hire a team

[wraith harbor]

One thing you don't want to do as an 18 year old is go 200k in debt for an app idea

[vapid jay]

and for the second one i have downloaded the apps with the same idea but i want one where you can use the words in your daily lives the one i used weren’t commmon

not a big app tho

[vapid jay]

it’s gonna happen if i think of tit like that

[near ocean]

who would pay for this though? this isnt enough to make a career off of, this is literal fiverr stuff

[vapid jay]

i’m not scared of failure

[vapid jay]

these are the worst ideas i had up my sleeve😅

[near ocean]

these arent even ideas, theyre beginner projects

maybe you should get your grades up and go to uni for CS

[vapid jay]

the notification one is good

[wraith harbor]

I'm just saying that you can make apps on your own for free before you decide to go into debt. I've made money from solo developing apps and all I needed was a laptop and many hours. And my first few ideas failed as I was learning

[vapid jay]

no im talking like a big app not a start up

[vapid jay]

you can make improved versions even if they exist

[wraith harbor]

I'd be curious to hear about what one of your good ideas are

[vapid jay]

something that solves a solution

it is

[vapid jay]

i don’t wanna show them cause i think they are unique

i meant something like insta dopamine

like tiktok and insta

i’m not talking about exactly like them

just something for instant dopamine pleasure like the consumer can’t live without it

[wraith harbor]

When I tell people I make apps, 99/100 times they pitch their app idea to me immediately

It's usually something that requires a social network component

[near ocean]

This is turning from kinda delusional to somewhat evil

[deft herald]

How do you envision it making money?

fr. Insta, tiktok, etc are all why our society is on a steep decline

[vapid jay]

mostly ads or if i get a lot of user base investors would want to buy it

[vapid jay]

wait i got another idea what if i make an app that makes scrolling a good habit like watching useful short videos 🤔

[deft herald]

for real. This is literally what redacted does

[vapid jay]

you can put what topic you like

[deft herald]

reading. It's called reading. There's no "good habit" that involves mindlessly scrolling

[vapid jay]

hey on your phone most people i know don’t read because their dopamine receptors are fried

[deft herald]

Hence this comment

[vapid jay]

i agree but the app i’m saying is good it’s a solution to get better

[deft herald]

We're doomed to heck because of dopamine addicts

[wraith harbor]

i think its not a bad idea to try to make this. youll quickly see why its so much harder than it looks

[vapid jay]

i mean listen most people know it controls them so i know a lot of people that want to change

[deft herald]

Yeah. How are you going to build the user base? User farms in India? Just a bunch of bots stealing content from other platforms?

Most creators already post to yt shorts, insta, tik tok anyways. What would attract them to your plaform?

[vapid jay]

i will see until then but it’s a good idea

[vapid jay]

i mean listen teachers and schools will probably try to go towards my app

i could get ads from schools

for now i’m just gonna brain storm ideas

[deft herald]

Ok lets get this straight. I don't think anybody here wants you to stop learning or stop persuing your goals and dreams of producing a cool app. By all means, please do that. we're just trying to give you a bit of a reality check for comments like this

teachers and schools will probably try to go towards my app
That is so overconfident it's crazy

[deft herald]

great idea. just being able to write down a bunch of wacko ideas is already further than some people get.

[vapid jay]

thanks

imagine my app having these shorts

schools are definitely gonna like this to teach the student also most schools know kids are addicted to scrolling

our teacher showed us a video like this it was easier to understand

Right now i just wanna learn python

[strange pumice]

Yo guys I’m back in the markets after some time I need to refresh

What are some interview coding challenges I should focus on more

[peak halo]

I don't think leetcode-style questions are as important for interviews as people make it sound. what's most important is that you can clearly communicate and answer questions about the items on your resume.

[cedar mantle]

hello guys

[open ivy]

Remember that in social media average is 10 times less than average. A person who is more popular than 50% of people receives 10 times less attention than if it were fair.

Not a good platform to network on, unless you are way better than your peers, then it is very good. But remember that even to get to "average" takes work since we all know the tips and tricks so this is no easy task.

Now, smaller "Indy" socialmedias such as blu-sky and mastodon may be better. Lacking hard numbers, does anyone have at least an anecdotal experience with them?

[thorny horizon]

Are we allowed to post resumes or skills so I can know how to improve my chaces of working on a tech company?

[true harness]

yes

[peak halo]

yes, we encourage resume reviews. post it as a large, readable screenshot with uniquely identifying information removed.

[rapid holly]

If you had to choose between
Exceptional work on your GitHub
Vs
A cs degree with a good gpa

What would you choose?

[lilac yoke]

what is the threshold for good gpa

[true harness]

it's kind of a false dichotomy

[rapid holly]

It is but ik people who still can't code after having 4 gpa or can't code as good

[lilac yoke]

you should be aiming to achieve both

[rapid holly]

Although some places often won't promote you to a certain level without having a degree so they make you do it on side

[icy pagoda]

this

[rapid holly]

4.0/honors/dean's list

[icy pagoda]

gpa doesn't matter at all beyond a point, matters very much until that point

[rapid holly]

There are Soo many bs subjects that Idc about

[lilac yoke]

you should still aim to do your best

[icy pagoda]

might help for research roles/higher studies later i guess

[rapid holly]

Do you think someone with a 4 gpa is smarter than someone with a 2gpa?

[icy pagoda]

i don't know the "wait that's bad" threshold in that GPA system for job hunting

someone else will probably answer better

[icy pagoda]

what I think doesn't really matter, i'm not hiring you

[rapid holly]

Im just asking for opinions

[icy pagoda]

but GPAs normally do have a "that's bad" point which makes people concerned sometimes

[rapid holly]

Just like ur name itself is but an opinion

[true harness]

2 is a low gpa

[lilac yoke]

2 is low, 2.7 is average for engineers

you should be fully capable of spending the majority of your time doing research, personal projects and networking, while maintaining above a 3.0 GPA, and even having a healthy social life

[rapid holly]

I mean I could invest that time in making something that I think is valuable?

[rapid holly]

Why healthy social life?

[lilac yoke]

you are only a young undergrad once, enjoy it

[rapid holly]

What was your gpa tho?

[lilac yoke]

I think my cumulative is 3.3?

[rapid holly]

I'm gonna fail in literature

That's a decent gpa

[lilac yoke]

I firmly employ this strategy

[sand patio]

try your best not to, there's usually a lot of resources you can seek out if you're struggling academically

[rapid holly]

I didn't write anything lol

Just gave it all empty I just don't like studying anymore especially for exams ....

[white relic]

It is a false dichotomy, but if you have to choose, degree and GPA, hands down.
Optimizing for an "impressive" github portfolio at the expense of your education is foolish.

[white relic]

It's smart to prioritize your education and a 2.0 is "didn't really care" territory. So yes.
If you want to talk about a 3.8 vs 4.0 that's another discussion

[valid ember]

#career-advice

[deft elk]

airball

[sand patio]

I think to some extent learning how to study and keep up in your classes can build discipline and a good work ethic

[elfin nova]

Hello peeps. I have already created the endpoint for for the red circled one. So when the Link to file in the first pix is clicked it will open the second pix . So what i want to know is that how many endpoints would there need be to create.

[rapid holly]

I mean I can code for long hours if I like what I'm doing but I can't just sit and study for things idc about

Like software engineering courses and other presentation and communication skills shi also like literature?

[sand patio]

most people can do things they like for longer periods of time without much struggle, discipline comes in when you need to keep up with stuff you may not like as much

[rapid holly]

I do struggle tho and I still like it the grindset
Also like if they have told me about back-propagation before teaching multivariable calculus it would have been way much fun

[sand patio]

I just think that regardless, slacking off in your courses like that isn't really going to help you out

[rapid holly]

I also think linear algebra and computer graphics should be taught at the same time

College is all about alignment not intelligence

[rapid holly]

I mean if I want something done I just want it done I won't sleep or do anything because I'm actually curious about it
Vs
Some professors think this should be cool to teach and then students go and follow their instructions... I mean there's nothing wrong with it, it's a good way to learn but it's not for everyone

It's all about your alignment with your professors

[sand patio]

I'm not sure I get what you mean, but yeah, the quality of your professors can impact how you fare in a class, and you're bound to get some bad professors in your time at college

[rapid holly]

Agreed

Not all professors are bad tho also you could just get really good ones online xD

[sand patio]

there's always going to be some classes you like, and some you don't like. keeping up in your classes enough that your GPA isn't too terrible is a good idea.

[rapid holly]

Yeah but I don't think I care ... Lol

[next plover]

pro tip keep your gpa off ur resume if its under 3.5

[rapid holly]

I'm more interested in making or learning things

[next plover]

another pro tip asking for a GPA in an interview is kinda sus (hot take hot take)

[white relic]

employers will care.

[next plover]

ive never been asked yet, they were more interested in the skills i gained from the classes

[white relic]

I've never asked, but I do notice when people leave it off.

[rapid holly]

Most of em yes all of em I don't think so...

Even u said u never asked for it

[proud glacier]

it's possible to balance doing interesting stuff on your own time with at least passing all your courses
like this is English literature we're talking about, it's hardly super difficult

[sand patio]

you can do both

[rapid holly]

Yes but can only be good at one

[proud glacier]

absolutely not

[sand patio]

not really, there's plenty of people with great grades and great portfolios

[white relic]

in a real job, you sometimes have to do things that are boring.
there's a reason people pay you for it.

[rapid holly]

But why would I wanna get a high score in something I don't care about?

[white relic]

bruh

[next plover]

i have to use excel daily in cybersecurity this is true

[rapid holly]

So like the taste of gpa as taste of money

[sand patio]

you might not like the class, but you ought to care about your grades

[proud glacier]

if you can get a better score (or at least a passing one) with not that much extra effort... why wouldn't you?

[sand patio]

(and if you care about your grades, you'll try to do well in that class)

[rapid holly]

What's gonna happen if you say no?

[next plover]

attack surface / vuln management

[proud glacier]

it's a matter of better planning, really. no one's saying you need to give up all your interests and own work. just allocate time and plan better.

[sand patio]

if you say no to do something you're being paid to do?

[next plover]

i would get fired but i get paid far more than i deserve so im not losing this job lmao

and its still cybersecurity so its not that bad

[rapid holly]

You can't convince them?

[next plover]

yes let me convince my boss that we dont need a license for our most used vuln management software

/s

[sand patio]

I think you're missing the point. a job isn't going to always be doing interesting stuff. there's going to be a fair bit of stuff that you don't like as well.

[rapid holly]

I'll try idk why gpa matters that much tho

[white relic]

boss: "are you doing anything? you haven't been resolving tickets or recording your hours"
you: "yeeeeah that doesn't spark joy maaaaan, I prefer to be learning and creating things"

[rapid holly]

Like it's true that ppl have jobs without a degree too no?
They just got lucky or what?

[next plover]

i tend to agree that a number is a terrible measurement of most things but thats the world we live in

[vapid jay]

btw i just found out you can make money without going to school with programming

[next plover]

they are most likely very very smart and a little bit lucky yes

[sand patio]

sure, but they're the exception, not the rule.

[next plover]

opportunity is when luck and preparation meet

[rapid holly]

Is it false that the harder you work the luckier you get?

[white relic]

sure, getting any job has an element of luck.
the amount of luck you need to get a job without a degree is bigger than the amount of luck you need to get a job with one.

[sand patio]

for every success story you see, there's a bunch more that have failed

[proud glacier]

of the things that potential employers may look at, it's one of the easier ones to optimize or at least maintain at a decent level.

[sand patio]

at the very least, you're going to develop a good work ethic doing this, which will translate well to a job

[next plover]

you get more potential opportunities with hard work, luck is a part in making something with those

i got lucky to get my job for sure but it wasnt without thousands of hours of self learning

[rapid holly]

I failed single and multivariable calculus both and recently I didn't write anything in my linear algebra and literature exam cuz amor fati 😭💔
But I did retake the single variable calc and it went surprisingly good it's just hard to keep up w Soo many failures

[next plover]

you fail when you give up trying

[rapid holly]

So I'm just wondering if it's all worth it

[true harness]

universities might force you to change majors if you fail required courses too many times

[next plover]

thats crazy fr?

[proud glacier]

I don't think they'll let you graduate without passing the required courses
so it's worth it for that at least

[rapid holly]

I mean I only failed once

[white relic]

reminds me of this comic I saw once
the red pill makes you happy, the blue pill makes you smart
person: "ha, I will take the blue pill and then be smart enough to know how to be happy!"
person: <takes blue pill>
person: <thinks> I should have taken the red pill.

[true harness]

it's usually at like 3 or more

[rapid holly]

Yeah I'm asking if graduation is worth it

[next plover]

in general yes

[rapid holly]

Yep that's the rule here too

[next plover]

you could always say fuck the system and do your own thing but prepare to dedicate your life to being a better choice than everyone else

[rapid holly]

Ts cli lover guy is cool

[next plover]

i had to do that with an associates degree and still needed to grind

because i was competing with people with 4+ year degrees

[next plover]

i have quite a vendetta against the education system in the US lmao

[rapid holly]

: 🔥🔥

[sand patio]

yeah it can be hard, maybe you can reach out to your advisor and see if they can help at all?

[rapid holly]

I mean I just have to retake em all or else there's no choice...

[proud glacier]

you've already invested time and money into college. not to be all sunk cost, but it's not worth throwing away all that just because you can't be bothered to write anything in your literature exam. of all things.

like even if you just scrape by with Cs, that's better than this.

[sand patio]

that's true, but maybe they can point you towards some resources that'll help you do better, and give you any warnings or precautions (e.g are you still set to graduate on time, what the uni's requirements are, etc)

[rapid holly]

Yeah right idk what I was thinking at that time

I just thought nothing matters whatever is gonna happen will happen anyway

@white relic you never failed?Like in an exam?

[white relic]

not really

had to take an incomplete on a course in my junior year

finished it senior year

[wind pike]

can someone get rich off of only comp sci

not studying business

[near ocean]

Plenty of rich engineers who left the business part to someone else

Ofc that someone else winds up being richer like 99% of the time, that should tell you something

[wind pike]

huh

[wind pike]

so basically business is the only way to make it out

[near ocean]

No, what does making it out even mean
As a software engineer you'll live better than a large chunk of the population

[wind pike]

can you buy a home with a swimming pool

[near ocean]

My guy is that a serious question

[peak halo]

I think your "how do I get rich?" line of questioning isn't a great use of people's time.

[wind pike]

idk

[peak halo]

if you're not sure that you're asking serious questions, and you're just musing about your ambitions, I would find a different server for that.

[wind pike]

im serious

man idk about comp sci finna just switch to business

is business the degree that makes the most rich people

[next plover]

In my experience most people with business degrees go into non business related jobs

[wind pike]

what about entrepeuners

[next plover]

The successful ones or the average ones

[wind pike]

both

[true harness]

the average startup fails within a year

[wind pike]

l

[lost blaze]

is blockchain gonna fail soon? (since its not booming anymore and its applications are declining)

[wind pike]

then where do all the software engineers work? a startup

[lost blaze]

umm not all ig? mostly interns or freshers work at a startup if we are not talking about senior roles

[wind pike]

you can just start a business and when people buy you get the money and take the profit and ship the product

as a matter of fact i ran a succesful business before, I made and sold dragon ball legends accounts and sold them

[lost blaze]

afaik its declining at a constant rate, might get another boom thouh

[lost blaze]

then ig you need to have a knowledge to term what business actually is

selling dragon ball legends account is sort of a gamble when it comes to how much knowledge you have for business

[wind pike]

make and sell aspect of it, not losing money

[lost blaze]

just because it turns out to be profitable doesnt mean its a business

[wind pike]

ik just the core aspect of a business

[lost blaze]

then better learn how to make one

if you want to grow a business, rather than just trading accounts or selling them to earn some bucks

[wind pike]

ik for example you can get money to make a pizza restaurant and get money

or sell a product on your website

[vapid jay]

so commerce?

[wind pike]

idk i have no idea

[vapid jay]

what do you wanna do?

[wind pike]

looks like i need to sign up for my college course to know whats going on. I didnt know how to use a computer properly was till i completed this lvl 4 course from fife, im getting the certificate soon

now ik how to make auto updates for my pc because ik some cybersecurity and ik coding and all that

[sand patio]

@wind pike just in general, going down a route like CS and getting a job is a lot more stable and has a much quicker payoff than trying to start a new business. That's not to say you can't, but business take time, they're hard, and you won't necessarily get wealthy quick.

(and, plenty of businesses fail, it's risky)

[near ocean]

something like 90% of startups fail before the 2 year mark

[sand patio]

and I'm not sure what you classify as "rich", but working as a software developer will generally end up making you fairly well off.

there's plenty of investments you can make to grow your wealth that don't involve the same degree of risk as abandoning a solid career path and betting on you starting a lucrative business.

[fringe sphinx]

Restaurants too. Probably any business 🙂

[vapid violet]

If you go into a computer science field for the money (and dont have a passion for it) is it clear that you are just there for the money? And are you often less successful? Mostly asking if people had co-workers like this. Disclaimer: This is not me at all, I love CS.

[near ocean]

It kind of is me tbh and most of my friends in fintech

Perhaps if things were more stable financially and otherwise i would enjoy it more but life is kinda stressful at the moment

The couple friends who do do it strictly for the money make bags on bags of it though so by most accounts they are incredibly successful

[next plover]

Not having passion for your job is just going to be draining

At least for me

[smoky quest]

It does tend to correlate in my experience.
Going further, having more grit and taking on more opportunities does tend to result in bigger and more compensated roles.

[next plover]

My thinking is that how would you progress at a meaningful rate if you don't enjoy it enough to keep learning

If I left cybersecurity at the door everytime work ended I'd be nowhere

[white relic]

you establish routine, keep track of your progress, and have other things to do outside of programming

nobody feels passionate about their job all the time

[near ocean]

passion alone isnt gonna get you anywhere and there are some industries you wont convince me are peoples' passions that still pay a lot

i refuse to believe people are passionate about pricing options, its very obviously all about the massive paycheck

[vapid violet]

Thanks for the inputs!

[smoky quest]

I am building something like that on my personal time. Does it count?

[near ocean]

maybe, i dont believe it

[next plover]

Average mar take

[near ocean]

like you wouldnt grind something you arent particularly interested in for 200k+ a year

[smoky quest]

If that was true, the majority of students would get a 4.0 gpa

and all the projects returned on time and fulfilling all the requirements

[near ocean]

not everyone has the same ability

you could be good at something you dont enjoy, or are you saying people are only good at things they like

[wraith harbor]

definitely easier to be good at something you enjoy but theres people who grind stuff just for the money too

[near ocean]

you definitely can treat this as just a job and be successful at it

even if youre just an average dev, you'll still make it further in life than other careers would allow you to

[wraith harbor]

i always try to find interesting aspects to boring tasks when i can

[near ocean]

i'd say im pretty average and not particularly motivated atm and i make double the national average 🤷‍♀️

[wraith harbor]

how many swimming pools do you have though

[near ocean]

i live on the sixth floor of an apartment complex but there's a canal right next to it
pretty difficult dive if you ask me

i know at least 2 people whose passion is chasing citadel interviews and they make triple what i make 🤷‍♀️ its not impossible

[wraith harbor]

what is 'chasing citadel interviews'

[near ocean]

citadel securities is probably the biggest market maker in the industry, they pay out a lot for devs
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Citadel-Securities-Salaries-E1443495.htm

tl;dr they facilitate trading of financial instruments