career-advice

[rustic shell]

currently i am learning web scraping

[open ivy]

I had a decent convo Saturday about code as part of my networking (relationship building) journey. Baby steps.

[storm nymph]

I’ve asked this before and was wondering if I could get feedback back from more people can you get a job knowing just python ?

[summer roost]

you mean, are there programming jobs where the only tool you're ever expected to use is Python? Yes, but they're much rarer than the jobs where you use more than one tool

[fleet reef]

What are they?

[summer roost]

some data analytics jobs would have you only use Python (and math), for instance

some automation jobs might have you use only Python

[open ivy]

You can get a job knowing just python and having people who can vouch for your passion in the field. If you are willing to learn another language on the job.

[summer roost]

I'll add: I understand where your question is coming from, and I sympathize with a desire to get a job as quickly as possible, but I think that goal is misguided. You shouldn't be asking what's the minimum set of things you can learn such that someone could conceivably hire you. You should be asking what's the set of things that you can learn to make yourself an attractive candidate for a wide range of companies and jobs. Especially at the beginning of your career it's useful to cast a wide net and be open to many different types of jobs, and deciding up front that you only want to work with one language ties your hands and cuts you off from tons of opportunities.

[icy pagoda]

gets good uni homework
imagine
my uni gave up trying to set questions which people wouldn't chatbot, asked everyone to research and graded them based on their research paper 💀

that's WAYYY worse, students enter a class to learn a subject and are asked to pick a novel research topic within the first week

[digital fjord]

that sounds way more interesting than what I'm doing tbh.

[icy pagoda]

good luck doing it in every course ngl, you end up w/ atleast 5 subjects each semester

the only way you're completing 5 novel research ideas in a sem is if you don't do 5 and combine subjects looking for new stuff in their intersection

now if you don't have any clue of the research in the field, good luck w/ getting a good topic (like idk, crypto + AI + quantum + computer arch/high perf)

LMAO this is peak

[vapid jay]

@digital fjord What kind of homework?

[left oracle]

hiii....ive just completed my high school and now have decided to get into coding but dont know where to start, i would like some help. like what to study and any book recommandions...anything helpful is appreciated. And i basically have almost no prior knowledge

[vapid jay]

https://www.w3schools.com/c/

[icy pagoda]

uhhh

!resources @left oracle

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[night rock]

What are some things to learn in Python that one can routinely and consistently get work or even get a job, being self-taught? Are there any?

[vast shoal]

There's no one thing you can learn that will routinely and consistently get you work.

[vast cave]

You never stop learning.

[blazing topaz]

of caurse

[rustic shell]

can you tell a bit more

[true lion]

Hey there everyone! I am writing this message since I wanted to kindly ask the community a quick question.

As a Grade 11 co-op student with 4–5 years of programming experience—primarily in Python—I’m currently exploring opportunities in the AI industry. My experience includes working with large language models (LLMs) from platforms like Hugging Face and OpenAI, along with some basic knowledge of Java and web design.

I’m curious: what kinds of roles or opportunities exist in today’s job market for students like me who are eager to gain experience in AI or Software Engineering through co-op or internship positions?

Thank you in advance for any insights or advice!

[hearty tide]

Start with this book " Automating boring stuff with python"

[buoyant seal]

Head First books are very good as starting point. Don't skip exercises in them, they are very important

[patent spear]

Yo guys got someone here a website or smth where all the things like print("") or input("") are or a website where u can learn python

[white relic]

!res This channel is for career discussion, but we have this curated list of resources:

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fickle sentinel]

Should i learn python before learning the discord library or can i just skip and just learn on the discord library

[white relic]

this is the channel for discussing careers, try #python-discussion for general Python related topics

[hybrid glade]

Is anyone a Web Scraper i can get in touch with?

[deft herald]

I don't know if that's a real title. Professionals who typically use "scraping" tools are doing stuff like UI testing

[hybrid glade]

i mean like freelancing, like collect data from websites

[deft herald]

What exactly do you want to know?

[hybrid glade]

reading the html, specifically getting the text of nested tags and attributes

[deft herald]

You want to know how to do that? You can try posting in #1035199133436354600 for that

[hybrid glade]

okay, is that u pickin ur nose btw?

[pearl mango]

Should we stay for job benefits, peaceful and great environment, with frequent tasks but there is not much pressure, or a slightly better paid job, might be more challenging and involve more skills plus high pressure but the benefits and environment are not guaranteed to be greater than the previous job?

[vast shoal]

I think it's a subjective choice, but I would definitely stay.

If I'm not challenged by work, I can find other ways to challenge myself.

[fringe sphinx]

yah, very subjective. I'd probably get bored without the challenge. It's very personal.

Altho, you may be able to find the challenge and growth, rather than it be given to you.

[deft herald]

It might help to quantify the difference in benefits and make a total compensation figure for both options

[deft herald]

Agreed. IME this has always been an option you just have to look for

[pearl mango]

Slow learn pace, gym, mental support, frequent sport events, vacations etc
vs
a company that I do not know at all that doesn't have gym, plus can't know what kind of support they have unless I work there, and if I join it's gonna be a new team btw

[fringe sphinx]

A gym is the deciding factor?

[deft herald]

So really you're talking more about perks than benefits

[fringe sphinx]

I'm usually more concerned about: relevance, stack, growth, opportunity, exposure, responsibility, etc.

** I'm not judging, I just don't relate to worrying about gyms and other things like that. I can find plenty of good gyms closer to my house.

[deft herald]

health plan, 401k match, espp, RSU's, bonus. All things to consider too

[fringe sphinx]

company health / growth too.

[deft herald]

yeah. And work culture is huge for me which i think might be what ShadowDragon is ultamitely considering here

[pearl mango]

I guess, but I kinda appreciate that we have a space to meet each other during work, which we can sometimes slack off and relax ourselves. In my culture as an Asian in a developing world, that's kinda rare considering some companies only rent a floor space as working space, which makes it looks like a Chinese "learning/studying" factory for the pre-grad test (kinda emotionless tbh)

[fringe sphinx]

Work culture is definitely important. Totally get that and agree with that. My main test is: Are you growing?

[pearl mango]

Yes, but not much

[icy fractal]

can i find internships in the pinned msg links?

[pine sleet]

No

[grave iris]

also changes a lot based on your place in life

what you want at 20 is very different than wht you want at 40

[icy fractal]

thanks for letting me know, where can i find anyways?

[fringe sphinx]

LinkedIn? Job boards? We don't have that here.

[icy fractal]

thanks, good tk..

[storm nymph]

How many languages do you guys know ?

[vast shoal]

Several, but it's not really important.

[storm nymph]

Oh okay

[vast shoal]

Once you're familiar with the general principles, picking up new languages is not a big deal.

[buoyant seal]

dementati — 9:31 PM
Once you're familiar with the general principles, picking up new languages is not a big deal.
Not super truthful statement.
Sure, easy to learn basics of any language and its syntax within a week or few

But learning language best practices, becoming comfortable with using it to solve any problem, including how to sort its quircks in debugging, learning its ecosystem for std libraries and common needed std libraries that all takes bloody time like wormhole.

[buoyant seal]

I know at this level for example only Python, Golang, somewhat versed enough in relational databases
and used to whole infrastructure as a code stack occupying my memory: Docker, Terraform, AWS, Kubernetes, Ansible

I worked as student with C/C++/C#/and several more obscure langs, but i kind of forgot them at this point
And never invested to get deep with them.
And i am able to find my way around vanilla JS a bit

[vast shoal]

I feel pretty comfortable with the idea of using a new language to solve arbitrary tasks within a couple of weeks, if not faster. Assuming it's not extremely exotic.

[buoyant seal]

i am feeling extremely uncomfortable with idea of using language having large learning curve, which i did not explore in depth how to work with efficiently.
It is at least 10 times+ level of productivity difference if not more we are speaking about.
i don't want to burn my lifetime not efficiently

For those reasons i stopped ever using C++ in some pet project community, because i don't want to spend time not efficiently.
Programming is time consuming activity.

I am okay to learn quickly smth that has small learning curve.
I am okay to get in depth with smth having large learning curve in my free time, so i would be able to work with it efficiently at work

[white relic]

I think the point is more that after 2 or 3 languages, learning a new language to add to the list is not more impressive than doing a new project (that stretches you in some other dimension) in one you already know

[buoyant seal]

@vast shoal Tell me straight into my face, that u are able to be productive and efficient with C++ in a couple of weeks.
Tell me straight into my face, that u are able to be productive and efficient in using Java, C++, Rust or Javascript just in a couple of few weeks.

[vast shoal]

I mean, I already know all of those, but I can become productive in a similar new language in that time, sure.

[slow fern]

so how cooked are we from the artificial superior minds

[vast shoal]

Not really at all.

[slow fern]

in 10 years? you'd still say?

[vast shoal]

Impossible to predict. There's no strong evidence either for or against it.

[buoyant seal]

Fusion reactors are only in 30 years of development from us.
they say today and each next 30 years again and again in the past.

[slow fern]

fusion reactors arent succesfull. the artificial mind is successful and is only getting stronger

[vast shoal]

LLMs are successful at being LLMs. They are completely different from AGI.

[slow fern]

and when agi hits how cooked are we?

[vast shoal]

Possibly quite cooked, depending on the specifics. But that could be 10,000 years from now for all we know.

[slow fern]

probably not tho

[vast shoal]

We can't use the word "probably", because there's no data.

[slow fern]

well hopefully ill get my money before i need to blow up a computer for me to get hired

[vast shoal]

I think it's best not to worry about it and assume software jobs will continue to exist for the foreseeable future.

[slow fern]

if software jobs are cooked i am going to PMC i swear lmao

[buoyant seal]

at best u need just 50 years of work anyway... super high chances AGI will be still not developed in those time frames
Sci fi stuff is sci stuff, breakthroughs are unlikely

[vast shoal]

Review what advice you'll give your kids in 10-20 years.

[slow fern]

why a breakthrough? its just a larger function. a couple trillion neurons alot of data alot of training on every piece of the internet. stuff can be done in a decade

google could do it. they have all of the data

[vast shoal]

There's absolutely no way to know whether just a larger model is enough.

And even if it is, there's no way to know that we have the capacity to support a model of that size with available resources.

[slow fern]

well the human brain is a good example. 100 billion neurons. alot of connections and more specifically as something is more important it makes a new connection and as it becomes less it dies out.

[vast shoal]

And even if we do, what good is it if we can support one or two human-level models for the entire planet?

[vast shoal]

The human brain proves an energy-efficient AGI is possible, but not that it won't take 100,000 years to come up with the tech required to build it.

[slow fern]

idk a couple hundred billion neurons can be computable

[vast shoal]

Smart LLMs are not exactly energy-efficient.

[slow fern]

lets just say. if a quantum computer hits the market then define software is cooked i guess

[buoyant seal]

But, would it be actually profitable to be computed? If they would consume large amount of resources to be running
humans can be just remaining cheaper power to be used.
At this point plenty of LLM usage is just energy/money/resource waste, exhausting investors money in not deliverable promises
Some chances hype will go down as no money gets returned, and it will go at way more moderate pacing as curious feature for usage

[vast shoal]

Quantum computers exist, they just don't really do that.

[slow fern]

not yet

[vast shoal]

If quantum computing somehow applies to the development of AGI, then that's a breakthrough we have yet to make. So again, no data to base our estimates on.

[slow fern]

i mean you could design a chip specifically for a model. a couple trillion transistors but literally the compiled code to the logic gate. would be fast since its only electricity

[vast shoal]

That seems like wild speculation to me.

[buoyant seal]

if only humanity spent same amount of resources towards space exploration development instead 😏
Plenty of asteroids with large amount of resources in our solar system

[slow fern]

honestly cant respond without it being political

[torpid mirage]

Hey dear people. I am new in this group. First nice to meet you all.
It is my pleasure to be part of python developers world.
I hope you can help me, I am finishing my Data Science internship at the moment.
I see my self as Data engineer, analyst. I want to ask you are there any remote job openings for Data engineers or python developers.
I had the chance to develop python api project for 6 months and I am very proud because the project is very interesting at automates the manually job on my team in the company that I am intern for.
I am able to send you my cv and detailed information about my education background and what I have done.
If you have any ideas please help me. God Bless you all and thank you😇

[peak halo]

You can get job hunting advice here, but you can't ask for jobs directly. you need to use a proper job board for that.

[white relic]

Baking models into fast, power-efficient hardware is an area of active research. Lots of people are interested in how to do just that. It's very very very far from trivial. "It's only electricity" is like saying CPUs are only sand

[torpid mirage]

My friend be polite. It is sad when the whole world is not kind enough 😔

[peak halo]

There are a lot of people here, myself included, who are willing to help you search for jobs. but we don't let people ask for or offer jobs directly because people who try to "hire" through platforms like Discord (instead of actual job boards) are usually running scams.

[vast shoal]

It's not a matter of politeness. There is a server rule prohibiting requesting paid work.

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[lavish hornet]

New to python, what role does it play in the cybersecurity field?

[rapid holly]

i don't think they were asking for paid work just said If you have any ideas please help me. i might be interpreting it wrong tho 🤔

[cerulean vector]

men i need help

my rock paper scissors aint workin

[trim crypt]

Make a new help thread in #1035199133436354600 with your code as text please. Read #❓｜how-to-get-help for instructions

[open ivy]

At this point cold applications for me are so broken it's not worth it compared to networking:

• Shotgun low effort: recruiters hate it and can blocklist you for future applications.
• Laser high effort: I can't find a good match (algorithm design and tool development subfields) and to taylor it because the descriptions are so vague.
• Using it to meet people: I don't know how to do that, it is a very unnatural context socially.
• Getting feedback: very little feedback.

I have asked before as to how to improve this, but no one seems to have any answers? It's a common strategy to send out cold applications, but I don't know how people fixed these aforementioned problems.

[cerulean vector]

whats shotgun low effort and why do they block you for ity

[open ivy]

Shotgun means basically applying to everything you see. The savvy people use automation to facilitate it (they don't automate everything, just the 80% of it that is common between apps).

However, doing so turns yourself into a spammer and many people don't like that.

[regal ermine]

I just post my CV on 3 of my favoured job boards and usually I get recruiter phone calls. On linkedin as well I have many recruiter connections and they often reach out if I'm available.

I do additionally apply from jobsites but that almost never works

I do that mainly to ensure I get the government payout to show I'm looking, though I do record recruiter contacts on the government login page as well.

Usually I get recruiter contacts and solid applications which a) are useful since I'm very likely to get an interview from those and b) I can add those to the government list of jobs I've applied to to show I've been searching.

That said, even with the government payouts, that doesn't even cover my bills - you need to be a woman with kids to survive if you don't have savings.

[pine sleet]

because most people dont actually think about it this hard

just do a bit of everything

[open ivy]

Yes I kind of have to think my strategy through a bit otherwise it won't work.

And currently it is a mix of personal projects and networking.

[open ivy]

So you reversed the process. You let them apply to you.

[regal ermine]

kinda yeah

When the market is up, the phone rings off the hook. Currently the market in the UK is kinda dire

Thankfully I just secured a contract for 18 months

[open ivy]

When the market is down, why can't you just lower your salary a bit? Better than not getting anything.

[regal axle]

Taking a lower salary isn’t always even available. If the market isn’t hiring, they aren’t hiring.
And other times, taking a step backwards might hurt you in the long run. But it is super situational.

[open ivy]

Yes that seems to be the case. I don't know why it works this way but it does.

[smoky quest]

Compensation does go up and down. See for instance the latest data dumps from Carta.

But overall, companies receive thousands of applicants. So they can afford to pick the best candidate for the role. And these best candidates would just go somewhere else if they were paid lower.
And note that value is not linear. Getting someone paid for half the salary does not mean they get half the value or output. They would likely get less than that

[open ivy]

Considering how many applicants companies are recieving, it makes more sense to network I think.

[smoky quest]

It would only make sense if you can't compare to the competition and would be below average

[open ivy]

Lets say 10% of applicants beat me. In a pool of 100 other applicants, there will be about 10 who beat me. There is a much lower than 1% chance that I am the very best out of 100.

[smoky quest]

each application is a new trial and a new opportunity to stand out.
if you are in the top 11%, you will get some call back. Certainly the ratio won't be great, but you would get some calls.
The strategy here would be to upskill yourself and ensure your resume is top notch

[open ivy]

I continue to work on my portfolio. Because spending a big amount of time not coding is very bad for the resume.

[pine sleet]

don't have to worry about networking a lot when you're just cracked 👍

(still necessary tho)

[open ivy]

If companies get hundreds of applications, I don't see why companies would be content with the top 11% when they can get the top 1% instead?

[pine sleet]

they usually do for big companies. smaller companies or startups usually don't have as high expectations, which is why people will often recommend applying for those if you're having trouble

[open ivy]

My preference (if given the choice) is to work for 25million-10billion market cap, not for the huge behemoths.

[smoky quest]

Definitely!
I feel free to send an anonymized version of your latest resume for review and feedback

[smoky quest]

It's like relationships. Do you only date the top 1% of contenders?
Are they all the same for everyone?

[open ivy]

If I had hundreds of people trying to date me yes I would only pick the top 1%.

But if a startup has only a dozen applicants or so then a good idea to apply.

[smoky quest]

my point is that the qualities you look in people you are dating will be different than the qualities @pine sleet look in a partner

And as such, the best fit for a given role may look completely different for a different role

[open ivy]

The job descriptions seem so vague that I can't tell if I am a good match and if it is worth it to apply and carefully taylor it.

Any tips to "read between the lines"?

[smoky quest]

Spray and pray is a valid strategy

not all jobs are worth deep tailoring

[open ivy]

What tools do you use to automate it? No need to enter my education and GPA hundreds of times. Its sad if computer geeks to hundreds of manual computer tasks, but why reinvent the wheel of a tool exists already?

[smoky quest]

haven't found the need to automate. Though I do avoid workday because no company worth working for would use it

[open ivy]

Does that hold for non-HR jobs?

[smoky quest]

And if you have to apply so many times that automation becomes useful, then I would strongly urge the people to reconsider their strengths

[smoky quest]

I hold it for any company

[open ivy]

Why is choice of platform in the HR department, which is not where we'll be working, such a turnoff? It's like saying all people who move to Kansas are boring or something.

[smoky quest]

it's like choosing companies which main language is cobol

if the company is more modernnot outdated and more considerate of employees and the applicant experience, then they would never choose workday as ATS

choosing workday as an ATS implies the company is more concerned with compliance and convoluted processes and weird stuff than actually getting stuff done

similarly, I would never apply to a company asking me to fax my resume

[open ivy]

What if you were networking and then you found out that the interview you got was with a company that uses workday?

[smoky quest]

beggars can't be choosers.
So it depends if you are a beggar

and the likelihood of me networking with someone working at a company using workday is quite low to start with. We would not likely attend similar meetups and be in the same circles

[open ivy]

I need to choose who to apply to. Spray and prey will need automation as my odds are that low. Lasers may work better, but no one told me how to read between the lines or find more detailed job descriptions.

[smoky quest]

if your odds are low and need automation, you would have a higher ROI by upskilling yourself and improving your resume

[open ivy]

So the stories of people sending a thousand resumes are bad strategies.

[smoky quest]

One way to look at it is:

• How many applications do you need to send for one call back?

If your ratio is getting into the 1 to thousand, it's pretty bad. The implication would be that the application is just noise to the reviewers.
So sending more applications would not increase your odds, it would just be more noise

and a better strategy would then still be to upskill yourself and improve your resume so you can improve your odds

[open ivy]

It was about 1/250 per callback.

So at enough scale it may work.

[smoky quest]

yeah, it's a start! With enough time and applications, it might work.
Though ideally, you should be able to improve it by 10x

[open ivy]

That is why I want to get better at reading between the lines in the job description, to look for better matches.

[azure timber]

Hey guys! Anyone got leads on legit fully remote dev gigs (worldwide)? Links, job boards, or groups — all welcome. Appreciate it

[smoky quest]

remote.com is a good start

[still seal]

Hello everyone, looking for a remote job

[regal ermine]

I've never networked in 28y of job seeking multiple jobs over my career. Just didn't. I always relied on a solid CV/resume.

Apart from linking to recruiters on linkedin IG

[regal ermine]

I've found that specifically advertised jobs on job boards for remote work typically pay peanuts. What you need really is a decent job board that happens to also offer remote jobs and apply for those; or get recruiters to call you / email you with decent jobs based on posting your CV/resume on job boards and only take the ones that are partially or fully remote.
FWIW I exclusively only post on cwjobs.co.uk, cv-library.co.uk (I think there's a resume library variant in the US); notably the guy who started up cv-library was in the year below me at school, and also monster.co.uk. That's it.
Then I get calls/emails.

You'll need a solid CV/resume to get even a single response though.

I'm not saying they are the only job boards at all - just saying that's my approach and it's worked for me.

[near ocean]

youre not getting help in this channel, try #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[west grove]

Oh okay thx

[wraith harbor]

company set an interview time with me, someone else at the company changed the time. first person still thought the interview was at the original time and i didnt show up. i emailed them explaining the miscommunication, and now theyve stopped responding to me. 🥲 its brutal out here

[near ocean]

you could email an HR manager/director and complain
could also leave a bad review on glassdoor and other such sites

probably wont get you your interview back but it'll feel good

[wraith harbor]

yeah i probably will the catharsis is worth something lol

[junior gazelle]

Guys does IT have a lot of demand in jobs and is it high paying cuz everyone says different things

[white relic]

That makes sense, because job demand and pay vary widely around the world, and "IT" is a vague category that includes stuff from software design to pulling cables through walls.

If you know what kind of IT jobs you're interested in and where, you might be able to look up regional statistics from your country's government, for instance

[near ocean]

Generally, tech jobs pay more than most other careers though

[grizzled tinsel]

i thinks so

[junior gazelle]

germany and like python or programmin in generall

[grave iris]

I often try and reach out to someone to ask about the position

[grave iris]

I'll do cobol

[open ivy]

That sounds like a good idea.

Spending 5 minutes talking about a position before applying is a HUGE boost over a completely cold application.

I am just curious how you get those 5 minutes?

[grave iris]

linked in is often good

[open ivy]

As in, find a representitive of the company and connect, then ask a question?

[grave iris]

often they post the positions on linked in as well, and you can respond to the post

You may also know someone who knows someone who can give an introduction

[near ocean]

I've heard of people messaging devs in a similar position as the one they're applying to and asking for referrals after chatting a bit but i cant imagine myself doing something like that

[grave iris]

I wouldn't message random devs without some connection

[hearty tide]

yeah that's right, i don't think it's appropriate to ask someone we don't know

[polar nebula]

@sour yacht hey mate aren't you a mod in the fireship server?

[feral stone]

Just found out one of our core content management systems at work is still built and running on Java 3….

[polar nebula]

I'd like say that sometimes the sever chat gets really crazy in different channels I'd love it if you or others mods sometimes check them :)
Cheers and sorry to disturb you :(

[open ivy]

If I can't message anyone about the position, or it's a big social misstep to do so, then it will severly hurt my chances on applying.

I am trying to figure out the good way to reach out. human interaction.

[polar nebula]

Does Jeff know about this? Hahaha My fren :)

[vast shoal]

Hi and welcome to #fireship-discord-drama-discussion

[polar nebula]

Sorry :(

[vast shoal]

It's ok, no biggie

[polar nebula]

Let's discuss career!!! I am publishing my quantum machine learning paper in jmlr journal wish me luck :)

[vast shoal]

Good luck

[vapid jay]

anyone work at humane AI?

[open ivy]

There are more "reaserch" and more "app building" jobs in industry (among other roles). The latter is more common in terms of both workers and openings (so the supply:demand ratio is similar), but the former is a better choice for people who like research.

AI: "Research" here is playing with the weights and training algorithm etc. "app building" could be using Chat GPT to make an app.

Physics simulation: "Research" is making a new algorythim. "app building" is using the Bullet engine to make a game.

There are two things to look out for:

1. Is the company choosing a strategy that aligns with your interests.
2. Is it a solid strategy. Reinventing the wheel makes sense if you are making a better wheel. Using the tools that are out there makes sense if they provide all the needed features, or it is easy to fill in the gaps.

[polar nebula]

I really love your detailed answer! But I have one thing to say....anyone sufficient skills can create an app you don't need no formal education but it is preferred but for research you at least need a masters degree but PhD preferred? And for research there strict rules and regulations which you must abide by but for app development you can play fast n loose with it? Again you're detailed answer is amazing thank you for that

Btw my research area more falls under physics than cs or ml hahahah cuz it's quantum mechanics in machine

[open ivy]

Creating an app that connects people online is not that challenging technically. It is a good way for people to get their feet wet technically without too much strain. Using off-the-shelf libraries and asking ChatGPT for help getting package A to talk to package B is not that hard.

However, getting a user base to actually use the app is a huge complex social challenge. Being successful there will definitely net a good career in business or a related field should one pursue it.

Making, say, a physics engine is another ballgame entirely. It is very, very, difficult technically to improve on what's out there. That requires significant skill.

[polar nebula]

Understandable and I agree with you

[near ocean]

You can message the person posting the job. I doubt some unrelated dev would take it well being cold messaged about an opening

[open ivy]

Is that what binder was doing? Looking for a connection and then applying?

[near ocean]

I dont think binder was, i was saying i've seen people doing it

[open ivy]

Whatever binder was doing seems like a good strategy.

[near ocean]

Binder's talking about messaging the person posting the job or commenting on their advert post (in linkedin)

In a sense its not a cold message cause theyre posting something publicly and youre engaging, so it might go down better for you

[vapid jay]

you guys hear about the new SSI?

[pine sleet]

hello, i've deleted your message as we don't allow advertising/recruiting

[modest kraken]

Bit of a dillema here, I got a summer internship role with possible compensation, but it’s a lot of web development stuff when I really like to work on systems programming and I’m only in 9th grade, I’m not really sure how much time I should invest into the internship vs my own projects

[quaint barn]

Hi! I just would like to know what category do my projects fall into?
My Portfolio: https://abin14.vercel.app/
I was thinking about my future career and stumbled upon this, so I'm very grateful for your help

[buoyant seal]

🤔 i press the View on Github, i don't see their Code.
Anyway, looks like from proovable code we can see only "portfolio" itself made in React
And quick run over your pet projects, they are all having exposed only javascript in all of them except one
Essential tech from any other job role is not discovered => so Frontend Javascript developer for 99%+ looking like match.
(I just can't find anything not related to Frontend/JS development with some measure of credibility to back it up)

[quaint barn]

1. That's because I'd like to keep my code private and instead would like to guide others with the info I gained from it.
2. That was just me practicing react.js
3. I was mentioning the projects in my portfolio, not on my github

Not trying to be rude or something, just clearing out what I was talking about. Appreciate the help though!

[icy pagoda]

point 1 implies we can't really judge it using your website either unless you have blogs about them somewhere

and well, the AI and NLP parts were p much yoinked from some lib (that's a perfectly valid and by far the most common way to use them) if i'm understanding them correctly, the profile still leans towards web/app dev.

the IoT parts are somewhat vague but the arduino project sounds like a university homework assignment than a project.

the transcribing glasses need more technical details for me to judge anything, could be done by a blog post if you don't wanna reveal the code but want to guide others.

driver alert/rasp pi is again a web project since you mentioned the inference ain't done on the edge device

apartment management is again app/web dev.

so well, web/app dev would be my guess too

[dim radish]

fujck

[quaint barn]

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to provide some additional context regarding the projects u mentioned:

1. AI and NLP: While I understand the usage of libraries for AI and NLP is common, I focused on integrating and customizing these technologies for specific use cases. My aim is to extend their functionality rather than juts using them as they are
2. IoT Projects: The arduino project was an important proof of concept and a stepping stone towards more complex IoT work. While it may appear simple, it was intended as a foundation for more advanced IoT applications, and I plan to expand upon it with more sophisticated hardware and software integration.
   Transcribing Glasses: I agree that more technical details would be helpful. If desired, I can provide a more in-depth breakdown in the form of a blog post, focusing on the challenges faced and the solutions implemented, without revealing proprietary code.

Driver Alert/Raspberry Pi: While the edge inference is not currently done directly on the Raspberry Pi, the device plays a critical role in the overall architecture. Future iterations of the project will explore more advanced edge-computing solutions.

Apartment Management: I recognize that this may appear to lean more towards app/web development. However, the project also involved data management, user interaction, and IoT integration, which were critical to its success and could be expanded with more advanced features.

[icy pagoda]

i mean, currently it is all app/web dev.

most of it changing hinges on the "future work" you mentioned in this message as well as more context about the specifics.

btw in app and web dev roles, you usually work on integrating other frameworks (like AI/NLP ones) like you did and do focus on user interactions. the device target it's being run on does sometimes play major roles in app dev

so most of the points you made here p much support it.

[quaint barn]

Aightt thanks for the wise advice

[modest kraken]

You probably want to make your code public if there isn’t anything major to keeping it private

That way people can see you actually did stuff

[quaint barn]

Welp, insecurities have the better of me atp.

[buoyant seal]

To prove usage of smth usually expected combination of

1. present code
2. present demo version of app to press buttons
3. present articles of research on topic

Without it, well, people will prefer to skip entirely I think any not proovable words.

[lunar pivot]

guys im a former roblox lua dev with 3 years of exp is it worth switching to python based on income and better demand and career overall

[quaint barn]

Definitely, the reasons are as follows:

1. Higher income potential
2. Broader Career Opportunities
3. Stronger Ecosystem and Community
4. Career Growth and Flexibility

[lunar pivot]

so its a wise decision to switch to python

[quaint barn]

Yes.

[buoyant seal]

it is wise to concentrate onto getting CS degree for path of least resistance

And during same uni giving a try to different languages and checking what works for you.
Python, Java, Golang, C#, Typescript.
See how well work general purpose languages with static typing stuff (Golang, Java/Kotlin, C#) at coding dozens thousands code lines, may be it would fit you more than using scripting languages. Scripting languages (like Python, JS/TS, PHP, Ruby) are easy to unit test and to get started, but they experience shared problems with lack of multithreading able to use multiple cores, performance problems, and problems to refactor their code and document it well due to lack of proper typing.

That will ensure u are following career path better fitting your interests and not getting stuck shoveling smth u are not able to appreciate working with
And will ensure having more job opportunities and far easier getting hired.
It is 10 times easier to learn what u know is good for you.

[brazen island]

I'd definitely move off of Lua into something else if you're looking to get an "average" SWE job.

Whether or not Python is the right option depends on where you live. Where I'm from I'd say Python is definitely popular, but mostly in domains that are data / ML (adjacent). The "average" SWE job is still using JavaScript/TypeScript/Java/C#

[grave iris]

Manager, Recruiter, or Hiring manager posts job on linked in. Fine to msg them.
If I know someone who knows someone who can give me an introduction to the company, that also works.

[next plover]

knowing people is the cheat code these days

in my experience you are gonna be up against 500+ other people with the exact same creds as you unless you stand out and know people

at least that was my experience in cybersecurity

[grave iris]

nothing about "these days" it's always been an advantage

[next plover]

fair, i havent been around long enough to know lol

[grave iris]

there are lots of ways to stand out, and to make connections. Just takes work

Security example: BSides conference next week in my hometown, $22.
Great way to make connections

[next plover]

dannnnnnng im jealous

[zinc geyser]

can someone summarize how thid is possible?

[next plover]

this is not the right channel and probably not allowed here in general

[zinc geyser]

where do i say ts at

[next plover]

nowhere. its not allowed here

[zinc geyser]

why, its not actually hacking its using ai to develop answers

[next plover]

its cheating

[zinc geyser]

not in anyway of tos groundbreaking

[grave iris]

is there a bsides near you?

[next plover]

not since 2018

i might go to defcon one year though

[grave iris]

I've been doing defcon for like 16 years?
how about traveling for a bsides?
another conference?
hackerspace?
users group? etc

[next plover]

i woudlnt mind traveling i just need to get settled into my new job first tbh

[pallid aurora]

Hey everyone , how is experience counted? For ex i saw a job listing talking about 3+ years of experience in networking/devops jobs . I'm my country there are few to none networking jobs and devops require mostly senior roles . Is any job related to it for ex support desk / sysadmin / etc help? Or do they want exatcly what they say

[white relic]

"devops" is kind of squishy, so it depends on the company / person reviewing the application whether a given experience would count. I would think sysadminning counts toward devops (more on the "ops" side) but helpdesk activity is itself kind of squishy so that might merit more questions

Where an opening is ambiguous about the requirements, I always feel free to interpret them in my favor

[buoyant seal]

devops engineers are usually evolutioning from former backend devs and sysadmins
naturally with being middle or senior backend dev in qualifications u can make smooth and powerful transition into devops engineering

Plenty of companies expect from devops engineering being more sysadmins people though, more stressing onto Ops, and being pretty much same sysadmins with few extra tools to take care off

So, there are at least Dev centric (commonly grown from backend) and Ops centric (commonly grown from sysadmin) devops engineering job vacancies, that for some reason share same name
Ops centric devops engineering jobs are often having alias named SRE (Site Reliability Engineering)
Dev centric... can be named Devops engineering, and can be named Platform Engineering. In some rare companies SRE can be them too.

[pallid aurora]

Oh makes sense

[pallid aurora]

Hmmm thats interesting , so the path would be sysadmin to devops/network engineer or backend to devops

Although backend dev would be pretty hard to achieve . I have around 4 y of uni to do all of this on the side. Still counts as CS but is more twords telecom and networking

[pallid aurora]

Oh i didnt know thats what SRE meant or wanted to be relevant to, i did see a good amount of those in my country

[buoyant seal]

Consider Backend devs being more perspective path for uni graduates for aiming into Devops engineering later.
Sysadmin is vacancy that could be having low career growth, and can be aimed for people with lack of proper education

[pallid aurora]

Also did u use books for python too?:) ik u recommanded me a terraform one and sum more

[pallid aurora]

Oh well i do find apis (fastapi or flask) pretty interesting. Is that a good start?

I mean thats what backend does right? Besides db work and stuff that connects with the front

[buoyant seal]

Regretfully i have to say yes. Python skills are acceptably good thing to have for infra dev
#databases message
Besides that i gave recommendations over there just now what to concentrate upon to become good dev/backend dev.
having profficiency in good backend languages + training yourself in core software engineering skills is good thing to do. Making bet for 85%+ onto them first
Adding in moderate portions fluff of backend technologies on top

[leaden brook]

Hi guys, basically I know how to code in Python, JavaScript, Flutter/Dart and Haskell. I want to ask what other languages should I learn that are in demand? I did quick google search but I'm curious to hear from other people to get a broader view.

[pallid aurora]

Well golang could be fun for linux oriented stuff. Also the goroutines in my opinion are the best threading system (maybe pthread could be better if done right)

[pallid aurora]

Well tbh i'm struggling actually learning a language , so learning more than one sounds terrifying. Although if i start using AI or google for suggestions / chunks of code / help with logic of the code i find myself understanding stuff better

[buoyant seal]

in my origin country with 143millions populations.
1700 job vacancies in Java + 372 Kotlin, 500 job vacancies in dot net, 600 job vacancies in Golang, 2000 Javascript + 700 Typescript, 5100 Python, 88 in Rust
88 flutter vacancies, 30 dart, 2 haskel jobs

hint hint to learn Java, Golang and may be dot net 😏 unless u wish to dive into scripting languages more, then Typescript and Python are good candidates (to hell Ruby and PHP with Perl)

[pallid aurora]

Am i cheating? A lot of old senior devs would say yes and probably code in production will in fact be slower or not the best

[leaden brook]

Is it worth learning C++?

[pallid aurora]

I avoid copy pasting the code anyways. Also woah now this road map is huge:) . Hopefull its all doable in 4 years . I'm really struggling with "time" . I mean i wanna do more than just university in those 4 and actually raise my value a lot

[buoyant seal]

Completely different job role usages.
in my country like there are 1350 job vacancies for C++, but it is very you know... Desktop/Game development specific and time consuming for your entire career.
Go for it only if u are able to appreciate it and ready for such life commitment. Becoming C++ dev is more of a becoming C++ dev for life

[leaden brook]

Oh ok

[pallid aurora]

I'm not experienced but i would lean into C + golang

[buoyant seal]

Java/Go/.Net on another hand is usable for Backend (all 3), Desktop (all 3) and Mobile (more java first), and some of them for Data engineering (java) and Devops engineering (technically all three, but golang works better here and then java) most can work too. More universal stuff

[leaden brook]

I'll look more into this and try write some small sample codes. Thanks guys.

[buoyant seal]

So answer depends on your desired job role. I think C++ is pretty much not applicable for Backend devs 🙂 and plenty of other job roles

[leaden brook]

Alright

[grave iris]

c++ is still HEAVILY used especially in backend

[buoyant seal]

Crazy. Backend with C++. I can find such vacancies indeed. 🤔

[grave iris]

Thing is, there is still nothing which can match C++ for efficiency/speed

[buoyant seal]

😏 But at which development cost. I would imagine majority will be satisfied with Java/Kotlin/Golang/.Net development
And having simplified development through having rich ecosystem with garbage collector and easier to use language
There should be i can imagine justification to use C++, specific problem that is needed this level of performance with memory efficiency, like development of your own database engine

[grave iris]

Doesn't matter...

lets say the C++ def cost is 10x (it isn't)

If you are spending 10M/year on infrastructure... you would HAPPILY spend that

Java can 'mostly' get close to C++ in straight line processing speed. but uses roughly 3x the memory.
Given that RAM cost is the largest single component of modern servers... that isn't viable

[buoyant seal]

Golang is more efficient 😉 just 2x RAM preallocation in comparison to used one. (tldr twice more than needed uses)

[grave iris]

and slower.
You can cut down the memory overhead of GC langs, but at a cost to performance

[buoyant seal]

There is Rust to compete with C++ 😄 but there are almost no jobs for Rust

[grave iris]

rust isn't competing with C++

[white relic]

if you're spending comparable amounts on infra and devs, there's no amount of infrastructure advantage that will balance out even a 2x increase in dev cost, let alone 10

[buoyant seal]

Many people survive on way worse languages, that are far worse and far less efficient.
I would imagine that with Java/Golang/.Net we can cover majority of usage cases most people have, and they can serve as good default language.
If they would be needing C++... that is as mentioned needing justification

[grave iris]

absolutly false.

1. the only time your costs would be comparable would be when you are very small.
2. dev costs are one time, infra costs are reoccuring

[digital fjord]

the majority of dev work is maintanance

[grave iris]

oh absolutely.
There are cases where perf doesn't matter and ones where it does.

We use multiple languages based on need.
non essentially things can use go for example

essential perf critical ones use C++

[white relic]

it's just math.
if you are spending 10M on devs and 10M on infra, which is not unreasonable, and your dev cost goes up to 100M, (the 10x you supposed) you're now spending 5x what you were originally spending on dev+infra on just devs.
that's a terrible trade, no matter how much infra you get for it.

even at 2x, still not a good one

[grave iris]

except you AREN"T spending 10M on infra in year two

[white relic]

How many devs do you think 1M buys?

[grave iris]

about 5

also... there is little difference between go / c++ once a project gets established

[white relic]

that's pretty aggressive, but OK, let's take that.
so you have a team of 10? 2M for devs and 10M for infra? You still can't save enough money on infra to balance a 10x dev cost increase, that's more than your original infra cost

[grave iris]

so
1M for devs
10M for infra using a GC lang
your dev cost will ramp down after the product is established
lets say the product runs for 10 years

with C++ it may take only 3M in infra vs that 10M

standard all in cost for a developer is roughly 2x salary.

100k x2 = 200k = 5 devs at $1m
devs makign 50k you can get 10

a server is on the order of 10k/year

[white relic]

I don't know where to begin. saving 70% of your infrastructure costs by using a different language? does that check out when comparing to what successful businesses have done?

[digital fjord]

There have certainly been successes in porting parts of your infrastructure to C, C++, and Rust.

[grave iris]

Well, I work at FAANG. I know it matters heavily to us

[grave iris]

it's more like
saving 70% costs by NOT using a bad language

[white relic]

ah, so I infer that FAANG never use Python, Go, or Java, since they are bad languages

[grave iris]

we use them all over the place... but never in the critical path

I know there were studies of C++ vs Java and they found that java devs were more efficient when starting projects
but when projects got large C++ devs were more efficient

[white relic]

in my experience, most code is not in the critical path.
but I think I'm going to let this discussion fall by the wayside, as I have other things to do.

[digital fjord]

the origin of the discussion was that C++ is often used as a backend language, and an aspiring backend dev should learn it. Which I'm not really convinced by.

[grave iris]

but most of your infrastructure will be running critical path code

[grave iris]

My personal opinion is that it is good to know one tool for each big use case

[edgy mesa]

ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY NO JOB PROSPECTS 0 INTERVIEWS PAST 6 MONTHS 0 EXPERIENCE LETS GOOOOO 🔥🔥🔥🐐🐐

career tip: don’t go to college

[peak halo]

I'm sorry to hear that. have you already gotten a resume review in this channel?

[near ocean]

Do you think your situation would have been better if you hadn't gone to college?

[peak halo]

their CS career prospects would be worse, but at least they wouldn't be in debt

[near ocean]

That is true I guess

[edgy mesa]

Yes I should’ve did air traffic control lol or air craft technician

I love tech but I don’t think I see myself working in this field bc the market is just insanely difficult like its too difficult for no reason lol

I can’t afford 1000 dollar certifications to help my career cuz i don’t even have a job lmao

[edgy mesa]

I can repost it

Literally just entry level thats all I want bro

Should’ve never went to college man

[plush tulip]

Why do companies say "must have 5 years of blah programming language" .., aren't they looking to hire a programmer? Its like saying "hiring a hammering nails into wood person" instead of saying "hiring carpenters"

[peak halo]

there isn't really a metric for skill. they're communicating what kind of programmer they're looking for and a general sense of how experienced they want that person to be.

[plush tulip]

So I have like 30 years of working as a programmer, starting with Cobol and Masm. I have been doing Java since 1.1 . I have been doing C/C++ since I was in high school. Picked up Objective C for one job, Scala for another. So why stress that oh no I don't know "Go" as the reason they won't hire me?

[near ocean]

if theyre asking for 5 years exp that means they dont want someone to pick up a language on the job, they want someone who already is skilled in it and been around it long enough
following your analogy, would you hire a carpenter of 30 years to do your electrical work?

alternatively, you could show them you could pick up the language and idioms real quickly

[lunar pivot]

how do i find commissions as a beginner?

[buoyant seal]

1. Most people aren't fast learners to get into entirely another one language/ecosystem
2. EVEN if they are fast learners, it will take time to become productive in specific ones, due to needing to get used to ecosystem and best practices of it

I do agree with you that "must have 5 years of blag programing language" is ridiculous for person that is already profficient with plentuful of similar ones
I think it is enough using it for 1-2 year to get used to its comfortable enough for work usage

On Condition that person is already familiar with similar languages preferably
P.S. in your case, you certainly pass this criteria 😄 Java should be similar enough to Go

[thorny lion]

Hello, world!
I'm a Python enthusiast aiming to build a career in Python. I'm not a complete beginner though, I've been exploring Python on and off since 2022, but I haven’t made significant or noticeable progress yet. After doing some research, I found this community, and I’m here to learn and grow under the guidance of experienced Python developers. I look forward to your support. Thank you!

[vapid jay]

error when runnign tests

error when runnign tests

[pine sleet]

wrong server, wrong channel

might wanna ask in a java discord

[vapid jay]

no you got this robin

[buoyant seal]

https://discord.com/invite/yBQKN5b
https://join.javadiscord.net/
https://discord.gg/hVtnwGd

[compact tundra]

Truly I feel like I'm poking around in the dark, but I'm still learning. I want to make a career in Python, other coding as well, and eventually maybe other stuff like red team blue team. All end goal ambitious there, but, what sources do you guys use to learn who work in the field and are all those websites telling me to pay them $80 a year to get the training and get the cert actually going to help? By that I mean do the certifications hold weight when employers are looking.

[pine sleet]

cybersecurity in particular has a few certificates that do matter, and do cost a fair bit of money (though your work or school will often finance it). i don't recall the names of these off the top of my head since I don't do cybersecurity but someone who does might be able to comment on it.
SWE doesn't really have any certificates worthwhile. If you want a career in programming the absolute best thing you can do is join a good CS program at a university and finish it

[compact tundra]

I think the cypersec ones are like cptia or something like that. So aside from just gaining knowledge and skills the python on tryhackme or mimo, the certs they give out don't actually mean anything?

[pine sleet]

not really, no

it's hard to accurately asses someone's general software engineering skills with a single exam

[compact tundra]

Thank you for your answers

[vapid jay]

hi

[alpine fossil]

Just did an interview for this internship role. I think the company is a scam.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lillup/

The website is empty, and their instagram page is just 40 ai generated images.

[near ocean]

ngl it doesnt seem like the most legit place

[alpine fossil]

The CEO was this french old guy (made it reeeeally hard to understand what he was saying) that rapped with corporate bs jargon.

I sent him a message now to send me a proper document outlining the role.

I honestly after the interview still don't know the project nor the role I was "interviewed" for.

He was like "yeah, disruptive technology, deep tech, machine learning, half neural networks, llms, talent passport, matching end engine, google is bullshit, sillicon valley is bullshit, okay?"

Not exaggerating. This was an actual sentence he said.

I looked at his 50+ "employees", it's all Indian and Bangladeshi students with "OPEN TO WORK" badges on their pfps.

[near ocean]

Just flagging the only links that work on their site are social media links
Theres no "privacy policy", no "contact us" page, no "terms and conditions" (???) page

[alpine fossil]

I think...it's a scam to get some mvp done so he can get funding and hire actual people.

[alpine fossil]

Yeah that's what's so weird to me. It feels like he vibe coded it.

[near ocean]

😭😭😭

[alpine fossil]

I'm fine with unpaid work, but if it's fun or useful. I am not in the mood to be scammed.

[near ocean]

I dont think there is a product at all yea
Dont do unpaid work

There are legit charities if you want to volunteer

[alpine fossil]

I need paid work.

I have issue getting it where I physically am due to visa issues (can't get a work visa here), and few companies will sponsor you to relocate.

It's become a really tight area to maneuver in.

[vast shoal]

Even if, against all odds, it's not a scam, it seems to be so unserious it's probably a waste of time anyway.

<@&831776746206265384>

[nocturne harbor]

!clban 366772015534702603 piracy/scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @rare wind permanently.

[alpine fossil]

I'm usually fine with a good project. I however, even if paid normal, don't like working on stuff that I hate.

Like some projects we all know that makes you throw up.

[near ocean]

There is absolutely no chance these people could sponsor you, scam or not

[alpine fossil]

Most of my friends are in UK and were sponsored for relocation and visa.

I don't know what you are talking about. It's hard, not impossible.

[near ocean]

But this company isnt based in the UK

[alpine fossil]

Never said this one would. I said I am trying to get one that would.

[near ocean]

Yea but this specific one cant, thats what i said

[alpine fossil]

This company doesn't even exist from what I can tell. It's a pre-startup deal it seems.

It won't pay, why would it sponsor me to relocate. My guess is they get undergrads to make sth bs for him to present, and then he just may or may not get someone to invest, and would use investment to hire actual people.

[wraith harbor]

What do you say to the job app question "Why are you interested in this company"? Do you just read about their tech stack and say why you like it? My truthful answer is I don't really have strong feelings I just like coding in exchange for money

[near ocean]

🤑🤑🤑 is what i'd say but thats not socially acceptable

[white relic]

you're giving him massive benefit of a doubt by assuming he wants to ever actually hire people or make a product and is not purely scamming

[alpine fossil]

I like to try and be positive because I think I'm becoming too negative these days.

Towards myself and others, so, I hope he is just someone who can't afford the salary but has an idea he genuinely wants to make.

[buoyant seal]

List for us their tech stack, and we will try to find any nice qualities to it if they are present

[alpine fossil]

Why are you interested in that company? Usually they want you to demonstrate fit.

Whenever you apply and it asks these type of questions, you need to answer three questions:

1. Why this role?
2. Why should they hire you for that role?
3. Why would you want to do that role in that company?

First one shows you know why you applied for the role itself. Second shows your competency for the role. Third one shows the culture fit with the company.

[buoyant seal]

Why are you interested in this company
there are always some qualities present that could help choosing.
I am navigating usually by finding company that i don't hate 😄

As long as they don't have NFT/AI/ML/Web3/Web scraping/Vibe coding/whatever scam there, i am already happy to pick specific company

If they have workflow standards/tools usage satisfying my minimal requirements for quality, i am even more confident to join them

[near ocean]

These "culture fit" questions always felt off to me
It's a job, people take themselves too seriously

[wraith harbor]

thats good advice guys thank you

[wraith harbor]

my general theory about this stuff is that most apps companies receive are from incompetent people and these questions are just to figure out if youre dumb/lazy

[near ocean]

How would you do that though? I just read from a script, is that better than answering honestly?

[wraith harbor]

yeah i dont know. but i think theres a problem where a really small % of applicants are actually cut out for the job, and its hard to differentiate. idk im just guessing here i dont have any insider info about this

[white relic]

IMO "why do you want to work here?" isn't a culture fit question, not really. It's basically a probe to find out if you did at least the bare minimum of research about the company to be able to comment on anything at all about them specifically. Not having read up on the company beforehand is an easy thing to spot and it shows the candidate isn't that serious.

[wraith harbor]

So it should just be about the basic product of the company? Like "I believe strongly in your vision to create an AI search browser for crypto currencies"

[buoyant seal]

Employment is a long commitment. Productive work can require working lengthy time, year, years there.
So being serious in picking is a good thing to have

[vast shoal]

I haven't really done any interviews, but it seems to me like the general attitude and personality of the employee is much more important overall than their exact technical qualifications at this point in time, so if I did interview someone I'd wanna try to feel out what kind of person they are more than anything. Questions like "Why do you wanna work here?" seem like decent prompts for that.

[white relic]

Don't make up some BS about how you're deeply passionate if you aren't, no. You don't have to be deeply passionate about a company's business model in order to work there, but you should know what it is

[wraith harbor]

i just struggle with communicating with people in a business context online and i feel like i dont come across well in emails/resumes/text,. I have good relationships with colleagues/managers when I talk to them verbally but I just don't know what to say in these contexts

[vast shoal]

"Your AI search browser for crypto-currencies seems like an interesting concept, and I'm looking forward to learning more about the tech"?

[wraith harbor]

i see thank you. i just will get better at that stuff with practice. thanks for the help guys i appreciate it for all the questions ive been asking here

[vast shoal]

I can usually say things like this honestly, it'd be hard to give advice to someone who just genuinely doesn't give a shit about what they do for a living

[wraith harbor]

i mean i do feel that way honestly its just idk. im kinda struggling to articulate my feelings here i need to do some self reflection

[vast shoal]

It's also not someone I'd wanna hire

[vast shoal]

Ok, that's good at least

[wraith harbor]

i think im just comfortable at my current position and im just applying out of an obligation without really having the desire to switch roles

[vast shoal]

It's probably not good to get too comfortable

To the point where you completely stagnate

[wraith harbor]

yeah youre definitely right. i just need to do some thinking and try to be a bit more earnest instead of just saying what i think people want to hear

youve given me some good things to think about

[alpine fossil]

It's less of culture fit, more of "I'm interested in specific work you do because..." thing. Just why you want to work for them.

[alpine fossil]

Yes, that's better explained.

[near ocean]

All this does is have people read off a script

I guess it filters out people who cant be bothered to do that, but thats not really good value per question

[white relic]

I mean, I guess you can see it that way, but preparing the script requires basic research
it's really not difficult to spot candidates that didn't look up the company beforehand

[near ocean]

Maybe im just being cynical but 99% of companies arent exactly impactful, life purpose providing, selfless charity work and this type of question makes it seem like the candidate should be grateful to even interview there
Comes across as lacking basic selfawareness

[white relic]

"I have a passion for whatever it is you do" type answers are transparent.

[near ocean]

Maybe they should ask what a candidate values in the workplace and piece it out themselves why they might want to work there

[white relic]

I expect candidates to have some idea what makes my employer different from every other business out there that might hire them, and to be able to express something they approve or find intriguing about it.

I don't expect them to have a lifelong dream of working here, that's silly.

[white relic]

FWIW, we usually ask these kinds of questions as well.

[near ocean]

It's the money, my values are "the money"

How did I do? Am I in?

[white relic]

every candidate wants money, that doesn't help me discriminate between you and anyone else

every interview question is an opportunity to show something positive about yourself, whether it's technical expertise or social acumen.
Is "my values are money" taking good advantage of that opportunity?

[near ocean]

How do you answer that question without sounding like a kissass

[white relic]

you don't have to pretend it's "impactful, life purpose providing, selfless charity work" to have something to say about why you might work for a company
supposedly, you know enough about the company that you applied there. Can you summon anything else to mind except that they pay money?

[vast shoal]

If you dislike or are indifferent about every aspect of the company you're interviewing for, you probably can't.

[near ocean]

Provided theyre not actively evil it makes no difference to me what the industry is, whether its a social media company, telecomms, governmental, healthcare, finance, etc

Is it any different for others?

[autumn crest]

For me it matters. I want to find a job that is technically challenging and I actually enjoy trying to solve the problems they want to solve. Some industries might not scratch that itch.

[near ocean]

There are technically challenging jobs across many industries and companies

[vast shoal]

I mean, I'd ideally like to work with interesting and modern tech.

[autumn crest]

I agree, just more likely in certain industries. As long as you enjoy the problems they are solving I don't think it matters.

[vast shoal]

And also preferrably at a company where employees are valued and taken good care of.

[autumn crest]

Finding a good job is just a hard optimization problem haha

[near ocean]

Those are valid reasons but have nothing to do with the company's mission

[vast shoal]

The question was "Why do you want to work here?" not "How passionate are you about our mission?"

[near ocean]

The answer given by others was "i have a passion about whatever you do"

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I don't think that's a good or realistic answer, on average

[white relic]

I specifically mentioned how that's a transparently bad answer

I mean, unless you do, but then I'd expect you can talk more about the topic than just claiming to have a passion for it

[wraith harbor]

i think my answer to this now after the previous discussion is: there is some aspect of any company's tech stack that you should find at least mildly interesting. if you talk about that aspect of it then it shows you did the bare minimum research into the company that a lot of people dont bother with

[buoyant seal]

😏 If i was honest in my choices of my current company, i targeted it specifically and found two recruiters just to get into it.
my current company is one of the outsourcing ones and working for europe, beyond the borders of my origin country.
It was my wish to work with more modern tech/clouds in international multilingual tems, and i got it from getting into right company.
The rest of companies remaining in country stagnating by using more archaic stuff / and well, very financially limited as well. My origin country is not known for good salaries at all 😅 . Outsourcing companies are the way to get beyond the limits and easy relocate out of it

[white relic]

essentially yes, that's what I am looking for, but it doesn't necessarily have to be about the tech stack, could be about the business or how the organization meshes with your personal career goals. A chance to show you did your homework and you know what company you're talking to.

Open-ended questions often spawn more questions, which could go into more detail.

[vast shoal]

It doesn't have to be about the tech stack, but I feel like that's a low-hanging fruit to aim for for most developers.

[white relic]

Sure.

[icy pagoda]

"fun role" only applies after they hand you a project and ask you to work on them though

"fun and money" are the only replies to this for me ngl

and the "fun" part is general enough to most projects in the domain - there's execptions for projects which won't be fun.

so all you have remaining is "this pays well"

[quartz vigil]

tbf

[white relic]

the question under discussion is "why do you want to work here [i.e., at this specific company]," not "what motivates you to work [at all]".

It's not deep. If you don't have an answer, you either haven't done basic research on the employer to know anything about them, or you aren't considering what working there might be like.

Or, as I've seen in some candidates, you're too afraid of giving a bad impression to say anything specific, so you just retreat into generalities and never say anything at all.

[outer rivet]

I got a text message that claims to be from a hiring manager. Does it seem suspicious?

Hi! I am Matthew, an HR Mgr. Would you be open to discussing a recent roIe I have?

[peak halo]

Where did you get it

[near ocean]

not really, standard vague recruiter text, where did you get it though

[brave elm]

How do I start? I want to take a new adventure.

[outer rivet]

@peak halo @near ocean
Mobile phone text message

[near ocean]

that is a little bit sus, how did they get your number?

[fringe sphinx]

It's most likely scam if it was; unsolicited, didn't identify the company, and text message.

[open ivy]

It's ironic that so many people are standoffish while also being lonely. This makes networking harder.

[next plover]

these kinds of scams are getting very common

steal your info / get you to do work for free, ngl i wouldnt trust a random text from a company i didnt apply for

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation

[buoyant hamlet]

Okay guys I am about to complete Python basics

what kind of maths should I start?

Like I am interested in AI/ML stuff

[thick hawk]

hi

[vast shoal]

Calculus, linear algebra and statistics, probably

[slender kestrel]

hi, how are you?

[thick hawk]

good wby?

does this server has any resources to learn python?

[tepid stratus]

linear algebra and numerical methods

hypthesis testing and statistics

can anyone tell me about the best project ideas for beginner level in data science and ML

[buoyant hamlet]

Tanks

[near ocean]

Yes, you should ask in #python-discussion

[slender kestrel]

i'm alr

[slender kestrel]

ig no, but I have some resources for you just dm me and I send them your way

[thick hawk]

yeah sure

[near ocean]

The server does have resources but the career channel isnt the place to talk about them

[arctic otter]

hi

I want to advance in cybersecurity. I am looking for a partner to teach me python.

[vast shoal]

That's not a partner, that's a tutor, and they are typically not free.

[daring kiln]

Yes you’re right

[mellow roost]

Hey, how does one gain experience in the cyber security field?

[peak halo]

Enroll in a degree program for cyber security (it might be a CS degree), do all the cyber security courses, apply for cyber security internships

[crimson light]

Hey there. I’m a Cyber Security Analyst with a background in defence and secure communications, now working in SecOps, focusing on threat detection, incident response, and digital forensics. I moved into cyber after my time in the Armed Forces and I now also run a growing cybersec community where I share insights, reports, guidance, and support others breaking into the field.

I'd say a degree isn't necessary to enter the industry, but it may help and I'm happy to answer any questions. If you need help writing a CV or looking for starting points to gain experience then let me know 🙂

[peak halo]

So you got training through the armed forces?

[kindred ivy]

How can I gain experience in programming a game? Or real world coding experience as I've heard from YouTube

[crimson light]

My background was mostly in communications equipment, including satellite systems and other IT technologies, not necessarily cybersec. I did various networking courses etc

[kindred ivy]

Or anything about programming without anything in particular. Where am I supposed to find them cuz I've been looking and when I did find one, they weren't looking for a new team member

[crimson light]

I don’t have a degree or formal cybersec certifications, but what I’d suggest is setting aside consistent time for continuous professional development and focusing on building practical, real-world skills, things like security concepts, zero trust, least privilege, email security, threat management, etc. This is all I did, with some hands-on exp from my previous role. That approach—alongside a background that taught me to think critically, solve problems under pressure, and work across secure systems—helped me land my current role almost immediately.

[peak halo]

What pathways to industry do you think there are other than a degree and military training, if any? The asker might not live in a country where the latter is an option.

[crimson light]

I'd suggest perhaps a helpdesk, support, or systems engineering type role. This is what I did, and it's very common for people to jump from say a Service Desk role to a SOC Analyst role. If you're going to an MSSP for example that has a mature SOC, and you have the willingless to shadow others, then you'll pick it up relatively quickly

And assuming you know how to use python to program, you're a step ahead than most other analysts

Thing is, a lot of companies don't have the budget for a full-blown SOC, and will rely on their internal IT team for this, so if you can land a job like this you can easily get hands on experience or even master, things like device management, device patching, identity, email security, phishing awareness, etc etc.

[smoky quest]

cybersecurity is a domain, not a role.
There are roles like helpdesk or support that might not require degrees, but there are also plenty of more advanced roles which would require a degree and make that path significantly easier with more opportunities and compensation

[crimson light]

A degree might help later on if you're aiming for something like CISO, but I’m just speaking from experience and what worked for me. A lot of people told me not to worry about getting a degree straight away—there are other ways in. You’re not jumping straight to the top of the food chain; most people start out in junior roles like analyst positions, and those usually don’t require a degree or even official certs to begin with.

I don't know anyone on my team who has a degree in cybersec

[smoky quest]

It's super relevant not just for CISO, but for many engineering roles

For these roles, without a degree, you would face a path of extreme resistance to just get in interviews

[crimson light]

Okay but what I am saying it's typically not a requirement for junior level positions

I applied for one position, got an interview and was offered the job the following week. No degree.

[vast shoal]

When was this, out of curiosity?

[smoky quest]

I think that what you are trying to say is that degrees are not required for junior level helpdesk/support positions.
Because it doesn't apply to all the entry level positions

[crimson light]

For example, I went on Google and searched cyber security manager positions in London UK. The first 3 top results do not require a degree

[crimson light]

Not too long ago, this year 🙂

[smoky quest]

You may also want to look at job ads of cybersecurity companies like crowdstrike or snyk and you will see there are also a lot of jobs that have a line like Bachelor's or Master’s degree in Computer Science, Engineering, or a related field, or equivalent experience.

[crimson light]

Yeah I'm not saying they are useless or not required. But everyone will have their own opinions about what route is best to take and I guess there's no correct path. Perhaps I got lucky, who knows.

[smoky quest]

I think you are extrapolating a very specific path to an entire industry. And as such, it's just wrong, not just a matter of opinion

[crimson light]

It would be unwise though to dedicate time to obtaining a degree and assume you'll be handed a job instantly

It isn't wrong to say that plenty of people including myself break into the field without one. As I said, I'm sharing my path which worked for me, and I know is shared a lot by others. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. I would never say that there is an alternative path that is a guaranteed entry ticket, and neither is a degree.

[smoky quest]

Let's take a broken analogy: it's like saying "I want to work in a hospital".
Anyone can work in a hospital without a degree. But the requirements to be hired as a receptionist will not be the same than those of the neurosurgeon. Nor will they have the same career path, opportunities and compensation.
Asserting the requirements of the neurosurgeon are the same than those of a receptionist because they both work in the same hospital would be just wrong.

[crimson light]

I get the analogy, but I think it oversimplifies how wide and varied this field really is. It’s not as rigid as something like medicine—there are way more ways in, and a lot of people end up in advanced roles without a degree by building skills through self-study, certs, and real-world experience, especially once they are in.

From what I saw, the person in here earlier was asking how to get started—not how to become a senior engineer or CISO. I work in the field and was just sharing what’s realistic and common at the entry level—like doing CTFs, gaining hands-on experience, and learning as you go

[mellow roost]

You speak English really well man

[smoky quest]

I hear you, and I encourage you to dig and learn more about the field of cybersecurity.
As you mentioned, the field is very wide, and the folks writing the rule engine for crowdstrike or the team behind codeql are more likely to have phd (more applicable to codeql though) than not, and would completely not care about CTFs

[crimson light]

As an English person, thank you 😄

[cyan jetty]

That’s basically the point though, however there is enough of the worked out stories to where we can’t say college is predicated as mainly a money grab

[crimson light]

You’ll usually learn more in your first 1–2 years working in a SOC than you will spending 3+ years on a degree before even getting your foot in the door. Real-world exposure to incidents, logs, tooling, and pressure teaches you things theory alone can’t.

And respectfully, no one’s walking into a job at CrowdStrike writing detection engines or building tooling like CodeQL straight out of uni—degree or not. I’ve seen people with PhDs struggle in practical roles, and people without formal education completely excel in incident response because they’ve actually spent time doing the work - People I'd rather turn to, and learn from.

[pine sleet]

it does seem like cybersecurity has a lot more people that got in via nontraditional ways than in CS where you could with fairly high accuracy guess how someone got into the field

[crimson light]

I agree with you. Do you think that might be because the field is more saturated? There’s a huge number of freelancers out there these days

[smoky quest]

You’ll usually learn more in your first 1–2 years working in a SOC than you will spending 3+ years on a degree before even getting your foot in the door. Real-world exposure to incidents, logs, tooling, and pressure teaches you things theory alone can’t.

What would be the arguments to support this opinion?

And respectfully, no one’s walking into a job at CrowdStrike writing detection engines or building tooling like CodeQL straight out of uni—degree or not. I’ve seen people with PhDs struggle in practical roles, and people without formal education completely excel in incident response because they’ve actually spent time doing the work - People I'd rather turn to, and learn from

Have you worked on these teams or interacted with them?
Because I have, and I can assure you these teams do hire straight out of CMU or waterloo. Or other colleges, but these have a well known pipeline

[pine sleet]

this applies to CS at least, can't speak for cyber

[crimson light]

That's what I was referring to lol

[pine sleet]

then yeah

[crimson light]

I’m going to leave the conversation here because it seems like we have different opinions and looks like we're never going to come to a point of agreement.

I will say though that you might find Chris Knight’s comment on this post worth reading. It sums things up really well: a strong work ethic, willingness to learn, and the right mindset will take you further than any single form of education. I very much agree with this, I think its spot on. A degree might get you seen, but it won't get you chosen.

[smoky quest]

Makes sense to leave it here!
The main difference is you are specifically talking about the analyst role, whereas my comments apply to the whole cybersecurity field

[vapid jay]

during you guys screenign how did you guys pass

[smoky quest]

• I was prepared and professional
• I provided great answers
• I vibed with the interviewers

[vapid jay]

your first screening for first job what advice would you guve

[vapid jay]

didyoyu tell jokes?

[smoky quest]

no. You can be relax and professional. But it's not a meme channel on discord

[smoky quest]

You will fail your first few times.
So start with companies you don't care about as a way to gain experience since you will fail anyway

[vapid jay]

ok how to sound more prepared than you might be?

[smoky quest]

I mean, I don't sound being prepared. Just be prepared. That is much easier.
For instance, they will ask you if you have any question at the end of the interview. So prepare that in advance

[vapid jay]

okthanks

[smoky quest]

I don't have a specific book to recommend, but it may be useful to pick up a book on tech interviews

Overall, it will be like public speaking. The first few ones will terrify you and you will be super stressed.
BUT, you will gain experience in terms of what they are asking, how they react, and what you need to review, improve and prepare.
And after a few, you will not even care anymore

[vapid jay]

amazing recursive thanks

[smoky quest]

And also, don't take things personally. Success or failure is not a reflection of your worth
Interviews are more like relationships. Not being hired doesn't mean you are terrible or bad. You can have two great people that aren't meant for each others and it's the same thing here.
So take notes, review what went well, what didn't go so well, and what you need to adjust for the next one

[next plover]

i would also suggest:

• KNOW the company, know what they do, know their values, do your research... it helps a ton to know
• explain how seemingly unrelated skills help you in your current field / the one you are interviewing for. For example I was a shift leader at a fast food place for 3 years, I have teamwork, communication, and time / stress management from this position which are essential in any field
• its not who you know -- its who knows you, start a blog, make posts, try to educate people. it works

i can say i got hired in a cybersecurity position with only a 2 year degree using these tips

[coral vine]

hello! i finished my swe internship last summer at f500 😄 super fun, learned so much. thanks again everyone here for helping me understand how to navigate all this in the past

now im in the process of interviewing for new grad swe roles. however, i have 2 university courses remaining before i officially graduate uni w bs of computer science.

im wondering if it even makes sense for me to even be interviewing right now? or do companies check in the system to see if i actually have my bachelor degree already? because on my resume i wrote "expected 2025". is this contributing to my rejections? like if i interview well but they check their system and see i dont have bachelor yet? how does this work? thanks!

[next plover]

I cant speak for a hiring manager but if you are a good candidate they may be willing to wait until you graduate, i got offered a job last week and dont start until the 12th which is 3 days after my official graduation, they even offered to let me take a break between graduation and starting

it might also depend on the job and how quickly they need it filled, if they are waiting on you and find a better candidate they may just go with them instead of you

but its a good call to have it on your resume, ideally they wont interview you if they dont plan on waiting

[coral vine]

Sweet! Congrats on landing your job as a new grad. That's really kind of them. Hope you enjoy your new role once it begins and thanks for the response. In that case, I shall continue interviewing while I finish up school.

I just got a little confused why I didn't proceed to the next round if I know I did good on the initial interview. I did take 3 days to take the interview though... maybe that was too much time inbetween for that rare "entry software developer" role... hm

[next plover]

It really depends, last year I had an internship and they gave me 5 days to do a prerecorded interview and i waited till the last day to do it and i got through, chances are even if you did good, someone did better

at the end of the day there are a lot of people competing for a tiny amount of slots, maybe even just one

although there is something to be said about when you take the interview, iirc the first and last people are going to be remembered the most

but thats just chance and thats just life sometimes

[coral vine]

it was the CCAT test, the one thats 15m with 50 questions, like an IQ test. i know i got at least 30/50. so i feel thats really good? :/

[next plover]

not sure how that test works but use this as motivation to do better next time

dont let yourself be the reason you dont do the best you can

[coral vine]

thanks for the tips! i hate when the companies get back within the same week i have applied to them. because i know i have to apply early since it can take 1-2 months for them to come back with an interview invitation, but sometimes they reply early and i "discover" companies that i totally want to work for since they gave me an interview but unfortunately, opportunity has met lack of preparedness Dx then i panic and take long to prep and then i miss that chance. anyone else relate? xD

and sometimes i hold off applying at all because im worried about getting interviews on same week and its hard juggling school w interviewing ! stressful

[next plover]

I can tell you, if you can control your panic and anxiety during any kind of "test" you will do much better, and i think understanding that you wont know everything can help

i was told "not panicking is a free 15 points" when studying for my security+ certification exam, its true

and there is nothing wrong with waiting if you are stressing out over balancing school and interviews

if its making you stressed id honestly wait until you are out of school

[coral vine]

gottta be neo from the matrix, dodge those bullets like theyre nothing

[next plover]

frfr

[coral vine]

wont work be even more stressful than this though? o.o

[next plover]

worry about work when you have a job, worry about school when your in school, no need to worry about worrying about work when you are worrying about school

lol thats a crazy sentence

[coral vine]

its like another version of how much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood...

[next plover]

We often suffer more in our imagination than we do in reality
this is a good quote to sum it up

im not familiar with software engineering but it can probably get stressful at points but thats just any job really, but its not the situation itself, its how we react to them that matters

[cunning lark]

guys i have a doubt which engineering stream will be better electronics engineering or cse in aids (i am from india so most of the guys prefer cse but one of my dads friend who is in the us told me to take electronics as the paycheck is better and there is no risk of recession ) so could ull pls help me to choose

[pallid aurora]

whats a good techstack for any CS job ? like where should i go after python? maybe sql and a bit of golang ?

[near ocean]

If you want an easier time finding a job you look at what your local companies are using

[pallid aurora]

fair enough , where i can gather data like that ?

[near ocean]

Linkedin, indeed, any job board

[pallid aurora]

oh ty

[pallid aurora]

how do you guys work remote ? is it b2b ? where do you get employed ? home country or that country ?

i'm looking twords getting a sysadmin job remotely

[near ocean]

What do you mean by remote? WFH is more common than actual, out of country remote jobs

I WFH full time, my company is based in the country im in
I cant leave the country for long periods and still be employed with them

[lavish wing]

are cs majors in dc-maryland-virginia area cooked?

[peak halo]

Honestly, yes. Jobs in the area are just being deleted and I'm not sure how much the private sector can absorb.

If you're a new graduate, I recommend moving to a different part of the country.

[kindred ivy]

Where would i be able to find someone or a small group on where I would be able to experience programming by working for them for free?

[digital fjord]

You can contribute to open source projects.

[kindred ivy]

on GitHub?

I'm actually hoping for them to teach me for working for free..

[near ocean]

Theres no such thing

[kindred ivy]

Then how do i gain experience?

[peak halo]

Get into a degree program, get good grades/marks, and apply for internships.

[vast shoal]

Somebody who knows nothing is a net loss, even if you don't pay them.

[wicked wind]

i have my first day as an intern tomorrow and im absolutelu terrified😭

any1 have any tips?

[vast shoal]

Don't be afraid to ask questions, but take notes about everything you're told and everything you learn, so you never have to ask the same question twice.

Put a little bit of time into trying to figure out how to do stuff yourself, but not too much time. If you get stuck, it's better to just ask for help so you can move on.

[haughty slate]

Just an in general question, are there any certifications that are broadly just worth getting? Either because they increase career prospects or because the knowledge you gain from working towards the certification is just useful in general for people progressing down a Comp Sci pathway?

[lilac yoke]

Nothing in particular stands out for general software engineer, though if you have a specific niche of programming I could recommend you something

Specifically in networking / cybersec, those domains have the most influential certs

[haughty slate]

Ah I see yeah, idk if I really have any particular interest in programming, kind of just broadly enjoy doing it. Recently took a class that had us go through two different stacks for development (LAMP and MERN) and hosting them on Amazon Lightsail, which was cool. I also had a Systems Software class and it was kind of cool programming on that level and seeing how sys calls worked for getting file descriptors, forking programs, executing in those forks, etc. Or how a compiler translates code to assembly. But nothing specific.

[smoky quest]

You would have a higher ROI by picking up a book and doing projects than with certs

[haughty slate]

True but then I have that issue where I don't really have any clue on what project I'd even consider working on

[bright karma]

yo where is the chat

[smoky quest]

certs would be more useful if you want to go into IT, where it might help to have some specific training on specific software or device

[haughty slate]

Makes sense, lot of the certs I see seem IT focused, CompTIA A+ or Sec+, or the like

[smoky quest]

ask your teachers, look at the different topics, etc.
You are transitioning to the adult life where no one is going to give you any direction anymore. It will be on you to do all the research and decision

[haughty slate]

Some seem to be more specific to using popular applications/programs/services, like AWS fundamental cert or something like that

[lilac yoke]

The best project advice I can give you as a CS major is to pick an advanced algorithm (something like Louvain community detection) and build a full stack project around it, front end backend database auth. As a CS student you should showcase your knowledge of advanced theory, and then show you can build software too.

[smoky quest]

The end goal of your degree is to provide all the tools to build any software. It doesn't mean you will know everything about software, but you will know how to figure these things out so you can build any software.

In the mean time, explore and try things.
For instance you mentioned a compiler. Making your own programming language is a popular project (see https://craftinginterpreters.com/). But there are tons of cool projects in any domain

[haughty slate]

Any recommendations on reading materials for learning algorithms so i could consider which ones seem interesting to me?

[lilac yoke]

Ex: Don’t “make a Facebook clone”, but rather try to reverse engineer their recommendation algorithm, and make a full stack project to showcase your solution. A lot of people get stuck in the “I need to know mern and react” mentality, but that is genuinely very very easy to learn and not with the time of a CS major, focus on ds&a and then spend time on the rest

[upbeat coral]

Guys I need help with something.

[lilac yoke]

You’ll just want to pull up a bunch of Google tabs and research, that way you make something original. Don’t follow some YouTube video or tech boot camp project

[haughty slate]

Ah alright, yeah that makes sense. Anything that at least offers a base level introduction to DS&A? I know it's kind of been part of my CS pathway for a long time but lord knows I still be struggling with them (darn you Skip Lists!!!), if not there's probably some old university textbooks I could find online to start

[smoky quest]

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/ great book

[lilac yoke]

Read through that and then try leetcode problems on each DS you learn

[haughty slate]

Alright, at least now I got some direction again on what to do, been stuck ina bit of a limbo, thanks!

[buoyant seal]

If i am not mistaken the book recommended above is overcomplicated as hell. It assumes you are able to read Higher Math hieroglyphs like it is your native language.
Here is more real beginner friendly alternative

it is way more beneficial to start first with beginner friendly material and pick some harder on later if necessary.
Beginner Brain Friendly material is always having high memory retention and easy to understand, and has a high level of fun often 😄
So...it makes learning easier. Learning does not have to be in a hard way.

[pallid aurora]

oh

well i want to work remotly because of lack of jobs in sysadmin

and to build experience for a future devops job onsite

[smoky quest]

That book is a standard book for first year CS students in their first semester.
If a CS student does find that book overcomplicated as hell, they have bigger problems

[buoyant seal]

Not everyone likes to deal with math when wishing to learn programming.
Pushing for higher math being requirement to learn basics of DSA is like pushing that Linux is best OS and should be the only one used.

[smoky quest]

The implication is they would not have the level of someone coming into CS school.
If an entry level material is too complex for a CS student, the solution is not to dumb it down. The solution is to upskill and learn so the entry level material feels more approachable

[buoyant seal]

i think it is Passive Aggressive / Supremacist attitude, when pushing material like that being the only one good one
Productive learning is done with real beginner friendly materials, than trying to conquer dry boring books for people that for some reason wishing to learn in a hard way.
If there will be need to go in depth, it can be a second book to go after that.

[buoyant seal]

Beginning with beginner materials makes sure person is not getting dissapointed in studies. Studying stuff harder materials (if it will be even needed, or may be not needed and then already learnt sufficient in time optimal way) is way easier when having some background to stand upon.

[smoky quest]

I think there is a misunderstanding here.
There is no gatekeeping and not preventing anyone to get in the field.

This is literally an entry level material for kids graduating from high school and coming into a college.

If someone finds this is beyond entry level material, there are more pressing topics to learn and catch up on. It doesn't mean they should skip things that are useful to learn

[buoyant seal]

This is literally an entry level material for kids graduating from high school and coming into a college.
it is not, it is full of higher math stuff. You may view it being easy kid material from your level of math experience
But i can assure you that plenty of developers can be viewing higher math as Evil Necessity that kills joy for them
I think you are too much judging book from normality of your own level, what u perceive as normal at your level

Alternative i recommended does not posses disadvantages this book has

[smoky quest]

It sounds like the root cause is that you do not hold the same view than EU/USA about what is considered an entry level material.
That would be beyond the scope of this channel and would fit better #pedagogy

[pine sleet]

i wouldn't really say thats higher level math

i think most freshman would be able to figure out what it's trying to say

[buoyant seal]

But would they enjoy figuring it out 🙂 When they could have learnt it easier than trying to decipher it

[buoyant seal]

The book in question has 1251 pages, it is quite large to go through in the first place. Clearly overly academic
When people wish to learn basics... it can be expected more simple book and in more moderate sizes

[smoky quest]

it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Their classes will refer to this type of material. Their exercises will ask them to go through these problems and their exams will ask them to demonstrate them.

[smoky quest]

So you are saying it can also be used as a reference through their entire career as well

[buoyant seal]

Sure, it could be book used like that. It is overly detailed after all

[buoyant seal]

Ergh... i just speak here from my experience of learning, it really works well for me to learn first book simple and beginner friendly one.
It does not matter if u need harder one later, u can learn harder one later as second/third book
Simple book makes easier acclimatized to some specific discipline and with more confidence going further. Simple book ensures u will be able to comprehend for sure with minimum effort for 100% capacity and grasping basics at confident level. With this foundation, being already familiar with basic stuff conquering something more... complicated is always easier.
This trick i used repeatedly for large amount of subjects.
I could have went for harder material from a start for different things... but i choose not too, and becoming familiar with basics first, as it just works.

[smoky quest]

Sure, that's a valid approach, especially if that works for you. But that's not necessarily great or applicable to everyone.
Though the context here is a CS student who is already enrolled. They may not need as much ramp up as you do and are already used to these types of material. But if they do, your recommendation is great!

[true harness]

CS students at most colleges have usually completed calc and are taking stat/more calc concurrently with their algos class. this is simple stuff for the target audience

[buoyant seal]

Shrugs. I passed that stuff, but i never became comfortable with it.
And secondly, Grokking Algorithms has only 235 pages over 1251 pages. chances person will go fully through small book are SUPER HIGH.
Chances person will go fully through academic book with 1251 pages is small by default, it requires a certain amount of much higher Will and Dedication or Enthusiasm to go through it.
Increasing your chances u will go through entire book is really good thing to have as it ensures your motivation will not waver and be killed in any beginng or in the middle. That ensures result will be 100%.
so just from the size of a book and more beginner friendliness, the benefit will be achieved. amount of Will will be enough for sure for big majority of people

[true harness]

clrs is not really intended to be read front to back, though you can if you want. you pick sections that you want to learn about. often sections are laid out with introductory versions of things, then advanced versions of those later

[reef fossil]

Romanians here?

[peak halo]

What would you ask a Romanian if they were here?

[reef fossil]

I'm new to the application and I wanted to be able to ask more questions in Romanian.

[peak halo]

Since we only allow English here, I recommend trying one of the Romanian python user groups. https://wiki.python.org/moin/LocalUserGroups#Romania

[reef fossil]

Ok ,thanks

[sand patio]

I'm aware that it's hard to predict the market, but if yall had to guess, what might it look like for swe jobs four years from now? I'm about to go to college (for CS), and while I'm not too concerned, I'd like to have some idea what it may look like a few years from now.

[fringe sphinx]

I have a firm belief in: breadth and broad competency over depth and specialization.

I think there'll continue to be a lack of 'Engineers' , and continue to be many 'coders' who conflate coding with engineering

Not gatekeeping, just pointing out the difference in preparation and competency required to thrive in a SWE environment that is constantly changing.

GPT will only exacerbate this: more under qualified graduates who coasted through the important learning opportunities.

[sand patio]

I see

so hopefully I'll be fine, come graduation

[fringe sphinx]

Yah. You'll be surrounded by people just trying to pass the class.

[peak halo]

@empty marsh your message was removed for seeking employment. Please re-read the #rules so you don't get banned.

[vapid violet]

As a freshman this year I can confirm this. There are a lot of people who are not even that interested in CS

[spiral citrus]

did you guys know any model to extract contents from templates?

[modest kraken]

If this is the math I need to know by college I’m cooked

[proud glacier]

the notation looks kinda intimidating but it's just summation, i.e. just a for loop

[modest kraken]

“Hey anyone know what jobs are gonna look like in 7 years when I’m out of college”

[scarlet elk]

Uncle Linus had no clue what tech would be today when he built the Linux kernel. Just build. 👍

He must have been no older than 23 maybe

21 🤯

[buoyant seal]

We would be still using same programming languages. Python, Javascript,/TS Java, C#, Golang
Rust in 7 years will become popular like Golang today or will fade away
Golang will conquer bigger percentage of market further.
Kotlin will rise or fade away. (some good chances will rise with Google backing it up)
C and C++ will continue being around
Hopefully more PHP, Ruby and Perl will die away (but on practice it will be around still for more dozens years around)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOW3Cehg_qg
I hope in 7 years to see WASM becoming mature and production ready usable 🤞
Also in 7 years we are highly likely to adopt IPV6 a bit further and ARM64 based servers 😄 (Massive adoptation and migration of servers started already in recent years, good chances that in 7 years it will progress significantly forward)
May be we will even all start massively switching to arm based laptops, and hopefully as result work laptops and servers will become 20-50% cheaper.

[bright karma]

hey who wants to test my python script plssss

[eager trellis]

test it yourself! give pytest a bit of research, that time will be a great time investment

[vast cave]

It's very very very very very easy, said the same before entering uni

It looks scary, but it's not.

It's like looking at someone jacked coming towards u, and they end up being the nicest person u meet

[next plover]

i have a hunch rust will begin to replace C++

assuming the rust foundation doesnt pull another rust foundation

disclaimer: i am not associated in any way with the core rustTM team or the language /j

[fallen umbra]

emmm

[grave iris]

I'm not holding my breath

[next plover]

i hope im wrong 🙏

[pallid aurora]

hey everyone , how do u survive in this market where anything is senior and if it isnt u still need to know 30 programming languages 😄

[regal ermine]

get a software maintenance job of some variety or start out in support and segueway when you get a chance into dev within the same or a different company later on

[pallid aurora]

oh well that sounds like a plan

but i feel like u gotta know so much and i wont really be able to understand it all

i mean i see everything as a 1 man team where u gotta be the pillar of any company , maybe my vision is wrong but working in a dev job rn looks like pure hell to my braincells

[buoyant seal]

instead of 30, u are expected to know just 1 job popular programing language in depth at Junior/Middle very weak level 😅
and actually just 2 - 3 - 4 (at most) languages when reaching senior level i think

[pallid aurora]

let me give u a better example , when u want to drive boats u learn how to drive boats . when u want to be a dev u gotta know how to drive more than 1 boat and prolly be invative aswell

[regal ermine]

yeah I have 28y exp and I only know well C, C++, TTCN-2, a little Ruby, a smattering of other languages and a lot of Python. You can't know everything. It will help if you can build up a github repository though illustrating your capabilities.

[buoyant seal]

i concentrated on just finding and learning all tricks to do development easier.
Makes life easier and interesting to experiment in learning projects and pet projects -_-
Good foundation like that makes dev life managable

[regal ermine]

Once you know one language well; which takes 2-4y, learning other languages becomes a lot easier. Lay a foundation in 1 language well first

[pallid aurora]

is that the reality of it ? i mean i feel my head stuck in 30 different palces trying to do backend tasks . i mean u gotta know terraform to build infra , python to automate , sql or db related stuff to store / manipulate data , u gotta have the brain to inovate stuff and maybe also know some logs and monitoring (grafana/prometheus)

[regal ermine]

terraform is infrastructure, more DevOps focused. It's not dev. DevOps and Dev sometimes overlap but you don't need to know both when you're starting out

[pallid aurora]

it all sounds very very difficult when ur not mastering 1 thing , ill try doing some projects maybe it helps my case

[regal ermine]

If you try and do everything at once it will be overwhelming.

[pallid aurora]

ofc my main goal is making a strong github rn . i have 4 y of uni waiting for me while i can learn languages and build projects on the side

[buoyant seal]

ah. well, i am backend/devops engineer too.
I count for real languages i know at this point only Python and Golang.
i know some javascript to do web dev, but i count it as... not deep enough to consider my main language, just some junior level scratches to perform vanilla js tricks.
SQL is not really a language too, very fast thing to learn in matter of a week. i just don't count it all, it is just a fluff backend dev needs to know.
And i count all infra languages Ansible/Docker/Terraform/AWS/Kubernetes/Monitoring/Grafana/Prometheus into a single... "infra language domain". Yes it takes big capacity out of me, but i think it is more or less equal to just knowing some popular General purpose language in depth with its ecosystem (with some flare of fluff on top specific to this domain)

So in sum i think i am currently stretched to the level of knowing 3 general purpose languages (Python, Golang and Infra Languages Domain)
and planning to add one more language into that and i shall be set good for my career 😏

[regal ermine]

I also picked up a lot of HTML/CSS/JS/TS/a bit of React/Vue/etc along the way and you also end up picking up a lot of tech since software engineering is not just programming. Get a perm job like I said at the top which is support/maintenance and work your way up from there

yeah to be fair despite my 'overblown sense of confidence' above, I only really know well C, C++, TTCN-2 and Python. The rest is stuff that just goes with that.

[pallid aurora]

well thats interesting , so i should generalise things instead of learning 30 diff things ? like only whats necesarry for my purpose and a small bit of everything so i can implement code if needed

[regal ermine]

I fancy learning Rust though

[pallid aurora]

hmm so just see what the company needs and adjust knowledge

[regal ermine]

TTCN-2 is a type approval conformance language (now 3) for testing mobile phone protocols FYI

[pallid aurora]

python seems kinda in the middle , like it can do a lot but not memory stuff right ? thats where c++ does its magic

[pallid aurora]

is that for telecom stuff ?

[regal ermine]

yes but I wouldn't recommend jumping at a company that wants you to learn an obscure language that you can't reuse elsewhere in that industry or other industries if you can help it.

[regal ermine]

yeah mobile phones come in the category of telecoms

[buoyant seal]

if u want to know general purpose language well, learn how to unit test it, how to type it, how to memory/cpu profile it, and how to build with it cli and web projects, write libraries with it, get to know its best practices and get to using it comfortably 😄 and build smth large enough.
Get to know its ecosystem, and u pretty much learnt it.

if u learnt raw SQL + 1 ORM => it is equal to naving learnt wieding all the ORMs.
If u learnt unit testing properly in single language, u will be able to learn it far easier in other ones.
If u read Code Complete about code quality, u will be able to apply its stuff to all general purpose languages and even to infra langauges written code included
There is stuff to generalize yes.

[pallid aurora]

fair enough , so how can i help myself before even trying to work as support ? is python a good start ? i pretty much finished the basics of it flawlessly and i wanna get in depth on a field , but like i said it all looks like a very big rabbit hole

[pallid aurora]

Woah writing libs sounds very hard :DD thats some golang stuff right ? i know some people saying they were building libs with it and using it inside linux

[regal ermine]

Python is an excellent start - you can get going with functional approaches, you can expand in to Object Oriented coding and you can learn the basics of design patterns. For those (serious programmers need to know this) get the Gang of 4 book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Design-patterns-elements-reusable-object-oriented/dp/0201633612/

[pallid aurora]

im guessing unit testing is pretty used whilst having a job in this domain right ?

[buoyant seal]

no no, Libraries are writable in any general purpose language, Python included.
Get good with unit testing
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Get hang of some architecture stuff
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#HeadfirstDesignPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CleanArchitectureACraftsmansGuide
And u will be able to make sense writing isolated code that is perfect for libraries

[regal ermine]

Unit testing will be desired yes. I personally feel that (hot take) interface testing (writing those first) is more important than unit testing

[pallid aurora]

ty

[buoyant seal]

it is basic necessity in Backend development in any language due to relational code being leaky. it is CRUCIAL thing to write code at all (like in python), if u write it in scripting language, because everything is validated at runtime only there.
In languages with real static typing u can write twice less unit tests to achieve similar code quality. As long as use proper json serializations/deserializations through data structs defined

[pallid aurora]

hmmm interesting , so this really deep dives into what the machine does

[regal ermine]

One of the truly lovely things about Python (gen 4 language) as opposed to gen 3 languages like C/C++/Java is that you don't need to write boiler plate code over and over again.

[pallid aurora]

also is there such thing as a python backend dev ? like is it enough to be good at it ?

[regal ermine]

Notably, if you want to learn design patterns and you're a noob, this book might be a little heavy for you. Consider the Head First series of books.

[pallid aurora]

u mean using modules and oop instead of rewriting stuff ?

[buoyant seal]

there is such thing (that's my job role name currently). it is good thing to be good at if u plan being devops engineer i guess?
Because python scripting is welcome to hack/glue things around in infra.
but real languages like Golang/Java/C# help to write way more sane code to maintain, refactor, and have far better performance capacity with real parallelism not locked to a single core. So for proper software development/backend experience better to go beyond Python at some point
There is certain freedom in using language that validates plentyful of stuff before runtime and not restricted in its performance in terms of raw computational spped and parallelism (and able to abuse shared memory for simple apps writing as consequence of having parallelism not locked into single core)

[regal ermine]

no in C++/C you usually have to write a lot of basic foundational code that I refer to as boiler plate (i.e. boring as F) before you can actually get onto writing the stuff you really wanted to write in the first place such as the algorithms and business logic

[pallid aurora]

ooh i get it

[pallid aurora]

i plan on doing anything related to backend besides crying my braincells out on JS cuz "its paid well". i really enjoyed linux and the networking part of it so idk where i should go but yeah... python seemed cool

[regal ermine]

BUT, (even saying this Python is pretty optimised these days), C and C++ are much much faster when written efficiently than higher level languages such as Python - this is why they are used for game engines and other fast apps.

[pallid aurora]

and i kind of enjoy it tbh , and golang seems fairly attractive too (the github go get is really cool)

[pallid aurora]

yep i can see why u would want multi core threading , thats the single thing i hate about py

[regal ermine]

Well one of python's biggest flaws is it's multithreading difficulties; especially the limitation of the single GIL. When you experience that issue in Python you probably really want to play around with multiprocessing.

[buoyant seal]

😄 my attitude towards JS as a golang-gopher dev is somewhere around like that if animated.
It is enough for me to deal with Python problems sharing similar stuff to JS.
I refuse to learn JS more than it is necessary for backend dev means.
I survive onto applying Request/Responses in backend means, using plentifully backend side templating, static site generations, Htmx stuff, vanilla JS if necessary

[pallid aurora]

yeah i checked that myself in a lil project i worked on with a friend relating ssh connectivity and node management how C libssh was ALWAYS much faster than its golang brother or python

[pallid aurora]

yep exactly me , i tried a career in frontend with react and i was terrified

i think i prefer bashing a keyboard agains my head for api errors than centering a div 30 times and it still not being centered

[regal ermine]

I'm a backend dev through and through myself. I tinker with front end stuff but I'm not very good at it and I'm TERRIBLE at UI design

[buoyant seal]

i refuse to learn Node.js because upkeep with its decaying ecosystem would have token great toll from me.
I think it will not bring anything useful to me enough as i know already Python.
Yes JS has unique niche.. in web frontend applications... but i can survive without it.
I am more interested to dive deeper into devops engineering and learning high quality backend stuff with golang/java/kotlin(or even may be .net some day) stuff, or even applying those languages for stuff like game modding 😋

Building stuff with minimizing JS makes me prod how i achieved building web app in pure Golang for example having 50k code lines and only having 2% of code as JS. I think it makes the quality of web app, having less JS

[pallid aurora]

golang sounds like it goes well with python ngl

[real sonnet]

I am writing a novel to teach how to memorize Python

[pallid aurora]

woah

[buoyant seal]

it is often asked as both in job vacancies, people do like at some point to migrate to Golang from Python.
But if u go Golang, u usually try to remove Python from your code base entirely 😅 not using both

[regal ermine]

An interesting exercise I found today was to enter my name and add IT at the end and ask it for a resume/CV summary (assuming your name is relatively unique in the world of course) - it's quite interesting what ChatGPT comes up with

It can't apparently rip resumes/CVs off job sites (presumably because it needs creds for that) but it gets some limited data from elsewhere around the web

[pallid aurora]

oh makes sense

is it similar in difficulty ? at least from what i know it has a bit better error handling

[pallid aurora]

hmm interesting

[vapid violet]

How important is having a personal website if I am not looking to go into web development. There have been a few applications that have an optional question and I just leave it blank or put my github profile.

[buoyant seal]

https://kodare.net/2021/09/10/status-not-notifications.html
https://soatok.blog/2023/03/01/database-cryptography-fur-the-rest-of-us/
Portfolio web site can be serve as your blog web site and show off your Thinking. Very useful thing for senior level

U build some pet projects, even simplistic one web site can be useful to organize and share info, like this one. This guy is assembly/embedded/C++ person, but still made his own personal web site.
http://adoxa.altervista.org/freelancer/index.html
http://adoxa.altervista.org/freelancer/tools.html

So, portfolio web sites go beyond of being useful just for frontend devs

[smoky summit]

yo i know this is completely off topic but can anyone help me with this spanish quiz rq

wait wrong channel my fault.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[vapid violet]

I currently do not have much of a portfolio. Only 2 projects on my github. I just finished my first year of university

[buoyant seal]

Github profile is a mess usually, u can mitigate it by having good README entrypoint to it though, saw somewhere guide how to make pretty github profile entrypoint
The importance of portfolio web site to navigate viewers to only projects worthwile to check, to your best projects!
And giving extra description/documentation on top what they are about

U wish devs/people to avoid viewing projects u don't wish exactly having attention to

Portfolio web site makes it more friendly to be viewed/navigated across your projects also by recruiters and not just by devs
Recruiters aren't skilled enough (or not having time enough) to see Github

[vapid violet]

hmm ok, thanks!

[pastel thunder]

recruiter reach out and then share a list of question
in that they ask, "why are you leaving your current company"
and i am tempted to say: since you came up with this opportunity

I think I am getting more comfortable, I would say team/culture is playing a significant role.
What I can work on more is, how to sound more natural, when I go over my recording, and
not many people ask follow ups, could that be that confusion is one reason or maybe its too flawless, lol

[eager trellis]

be very generic, "I've run out of opportunities there to try new things and advance"

[wicked turret]

anyone got any ideas for a project that a starter could do

[fringe sphinx]

.kin is a good place to start

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[wicked turret]

i mean liek
ideas

[fringe sphinx]

Have you looked at that page?

[wicked turret]

yes

[fringe sphinx]

And clicked on, say, 'app ideas collection'?

[wicked turret]

yes
exactly that actually

but it sent me to github

alot of it wasnt python

[fringe sphinx]

They're just project ideas. What can't be done in Python?

[wicked turret]

oh alr nvm

[fringe sphinx]

But: if you want suggestions, you have to give more context.

[rapid holly]

is it okay if i ask dumb questions here...

[peak halo]

If it's about careers and it's not against the rules, then yes

[rapid holly]

its about UDP sockets..

[peak halo]

try #python-discussion. be sure to always ask your whole question, giving all the information someone would need to answer it.

please remove your question from this channel and paste it in #python-discussion.

[rapid holly]

OOHHHH MY BAD

[wicked turret]

suggestion easy for a rusty beginner

nothing where you have to make like an app or something
something that could easily be done

like a very very simple game

[deft herald]

guess a number between 1 and 10, rock paper scissors, hangman, text-based adventure game

[wicked turret]

thanks

[jade rampart]

Hey guys, studying my masters degree (CS). I'm almost half way my 3rd year. So I have like 2 years and 6 more months ahead.

Not sure what to do apart from studying, I believe I'm capable of completing my degree on time, but if I want to get into an internship or a part time job, I'll probably need to use some more time for uni.

Anyways, what should I do? I know it's a vague question, but I'm not sure if I should go for internships, or wait till I'm done with uni to start working.

Btw, I do like challenges and I'm not in need of money, I would hate doing a normal job, a non-challenging job.

Thanks in advance for the advice 🙂

[buoyant seal]

advices i would have given myself if i was still in a 3rd year.
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
Learn unit testing properly, it is crucial to write not a garbage code that has chances to be maintainable instead of rewritten from zero

Get comfortable with serious general purpose languages, like Java/Kotlin, Golang and may be even .Net 😏
And apply plentifully in pet projects in order to explore their ecosystems, and get comfortable in their usage
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
https://github.com/avelino/awesome-go
https://github.com/akullpp/awesome-java
https://github.com/quozd/awesome-dotnet
Serious exploration in depth of some serious language is time consuming effort.

[jade rampart]

Appreciate all the advice 💯
I'm taking note of this

And apply plentifully in pet projects in order to explore their ecosystems
What do you mean by this?

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
Linked article written what i mean. Join community of interest, be it gaming community like i joined, Freelancer game one, or Starsector or Minecraft
Or some dev tool community like Kubernetes, specific languages and etc.
By being part of community, being a user of smth u can understand what users wish and their challenges
Thus u are able to see where to apply your code effort for practice

Building stuff that users actually need is awesome 😋 If u are user of same community and benefiting from it, obviously even more awesome
instead of making some abstracted spheric in a vaccum business like project that has no life beyond its first implementation

[jade rampart]

Building stuff that users actually need is awesome 😋

I'd love to have a repo to maintin because other people use it

[buoyant seal]

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26307.0
https://www.ashesofthedomain.info/
That can be done in a fun way, some just make gaming mods and it is already in user demand

build stuff with quality! with unit testing, documentation and CI pipeline to run tests for every commit.
Make the stuff maintainable, and address user needs
Refactor your code and improve and your skills growth 😄 as long as u have unit tests, and u use static typed language, it is doable thing with reasonable effort despite drastic skill growth changes in years of time

[jade rampart]

But like, what should I learn? Because it's impossible to learn everything out there... And my problem is, I like lots of things...

I can somewhat answer myself... learn what your project asks you to learn, so I guess I need to find a project first 😄

I'm not into gaming tbh

[buoyant seal]

i gave recommendation to just learn general purpose language, and learning to use them properly with unit testing, and then applying in communities of your interest
Question yourself, what interests u have, explore which kind of communities u can benefit with your code effort
only u can answer what tickles your enthusiasm. software development is applicable almost everywhere 😄
Find also related communities specific to the chosen tech, every language has some strong points where it is more usable than others

[jade rampart]

I'll read your blog

I'd love to find something to code 🕶️ A cool project would fit well in my life 😄

[vapid jay]

yo can someone tell me if this works when you download and open it

[summer roost]

!warn 791761913611943996 Don't send malware here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid jay.

[vapid jay]

wait it was malware?

[summer roost]

yes

and this is #career-advice

[vapid jay]

well idk what channels bru i didnt know it was malware wtf

how tf did u know

[scarlet elk]

Ping the #cybersecurity channel maybe some of the sme can explain

Bruv I can’t even get a data analyst part-time gui connoisseur jobs basically. I’m close to graduation

I wonder if recruiters even know what gui stands for

[vast cave]

Why not learn python?

[buoyant seal]

Python shares plentiful of properties with languages like Javascript/PHP. It is easy to unit test, and it is language of absolute unlimited freedom to do everything in terms of syntax. But people will write only messy code in python, that is hard to refactor/improve due to no static typing, and you are very restricted in raw performance speed, and multi core parallelism is practically not present (multiprocessing we do not count).
It is language with many restrictions that makes it not very nice behaving when u wish to write feature rich stuff with dozens and hundreds of thousands code lines.
I think python is great in scripting though. Certainly magnitudes better than using bash.
So general purposeness of python is kind of a lie, if u try to build some desktop, mobile, cli app with it, u are quickly discovering that stuff u make is just straight slow and hard to fix. 1 year later u are having hard time to returning to already written code since it is often full of dark magic u can't exactly easily improve.
I think better leaving scripting languages to learn for smth last thing to pick later, and trying to invest into smth more serious first

[vast cave]

Hm. I see the point you're making here. What about using Python for backend? And what other languages do u recommend me learning (as right now, I only know Python, 4-6 years of experience)

[buoyant seal]

People do use python for backend, it is sort of able to survive in it since network delays are way greater than python limitations, and possible to organize multiprocessing scaling of workload.
Due to python being python, u are still going to encounter often job vacancies filled with machine learning, and I personally would wish to avoid them.

I recommend giving a try to Golang, Java/Kotlin and .Net.
But before doing that, check your local hiring web sites and see for yourself which ones have good enough job vacancies amount first

[vast shoal]

Basically, do learn Python, just make sure you learn other languages as well.

[vast cave]

Golang sounds interesting, I'll give it a shot, thanks

[vast cave]

What languages do u recommend learning (because why not)?

[vast shoal]

There are a lot of choices that are valid.

Java is a language with bad reputation in the online programming community, but it's a solid language with high employability.

Kotlin is another JVM language with a similar application scope to Java, and which solves a lot of its more glaring issues.

[vast cave]

I hate Java, I don't know why, I just hate everything about it. It's syntax, etc.

[vast shoal]

It's nicer to work with, but not as widely used.

[vast shoal]

Even if you don't plan on using it, learning C can be a good exercise because it forces you to deal with memory management directly.

That way you can understand what it is that other languages do for you under the hood.

[vast cave]

Yup, I was about to say that I'd probably learn C, however, I don't get the difference between C, C# & C++

[vast shoal]

C++ is an extension of C with OOP features, basically. C# is a completely different language, it's much more similar to Java than either C or C++.

Though C# and Java have grown apart more and more over time. Their basic execution model is quite similar, but their feature sets are quite different nowadays.

Once you've studied C and C++, studying Rust is interesting because it's kind of like a response to the problems of those languages.

[vast cave]

I see, would u say learning C would be easy as someone that has already programmed in Python before? I mean, I know that it's way harder than Python and more complex, but the logic/reasoning behind stuff, u get me?

[vast shoal]

Trying to give you fine-tuned control over memory and performance while at the same time protecting you from memory management issues.

[proud glacier]

It'll be easier than learning it with no background in programming.

[vast cave]

What problem does C have 👀

[vast shoal]

It's easier to learn C when you already know Python compared to learning it as your first language, yes. It's not really more complex, it just forces you to manage memory manually. And there's less standard library support, so you have to do more from scratch.

[buoyant seal]

too bad. Super job popular. And ecosystem rich and usable for Backend, Mobile and Desktop at the same time.
Kotlin looks to be helping to push Java making better, and each new recent version of Java more catches up with it and becomes nicer.
And has nice applications like usable for gaming modding of Starsector and Minecraft 😋 i am very fascinated how those modding communities are super large in stable amount of mods, i think Java helps to make it right
And Java is even Linux friendly in addition.
Anyway... if not liking Java itself, then just going for Kotlin is an option, or as mentioned Golang and C# are options too.

[indigo needle]

So check this out, (low resolution image + AI) + (high resolution image + OCR) = accurate JSON data + Tons of token saved

[vast shoal]

Well, managing memory manually means you're exposed to an entirely new class of bugs that can be quite difficult to troubleshoot when you don't have any experience with them.

[vast cave]

Making the libraries I'm using from scratch sounds like a nightmare.

[vast shoal]

It's quite inconvenient, yes. That's why you'd only use C if you have to, in practice. But again, learning it is more an educational exercise. Unless you want to work in embedded development.

[vast cave]

Fair point, thanks to everyone that helped

[proud glacier]

You can use libraries outside of the standard C library. It's just that you have to go and get and configure them.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, the lack of a standardized dependency manager is also a big drawback.

[summer roost]

Being able to read the code in the Linux kernel, or the Python interpreter, or bash, or sqlite, etc to learn how things work is like a superpower

[vast cave]

Hm. So is it like C install hello? Or do I have to go and search the library up

[summer roost]

You can learn an incredible amount about how things work by learning C and then reading code in big projects whenever you're curious about how they do something

[vast shoal]

Yes, that's a fair point.

[proud glacier]

you would search the library up, and read the documentation for how you would integrate it into your build system. it's not so convenient as a pip install.

[vast shoal]

That's sort of in line with what my point was, that learning C is a good idea for the sake of understanding how things work under the hood, rather than as a language you're likely to actually use.

[buoyant seal]

while Java may be having some initial curve harder..
i think there is a room to be for such languages being godsend in comparison to problems people deal with in scripting languages (once they try to write more than 500-1000 code lines in them) 😅

[summer roost]

Yeah, I agree with that. Not the best choice for new projects, but it's worth learning because so much important stuff uses it

[vast cave]

Oh okay, the more I learn anything new, I feel stupid that I didn't know it before. It's crazy

[vast shoal]

There's no reason to feel stupid. How are you supposed to just know what you don't know?

But this is why it's valuable to learn several different languages, you will begin to understand what properties of your first language are unique to that language, and what it has in common with other languages.

[indigo needle]

For me it's TS to Py

[vast shoal]

This is #career-advice

[finite oak]

why?

oh sorry i was think it's #python-discussion

[weary glen]

Hi!What book would you recommend for learning Python if I only know how to use conditional statements,lists and functions (on surface level)?

[vast shoal]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc

But also, this is a channel for discussions about careers and the world of work, not a general Python support channel

[weary glen]

Okay,thanks!

[ashen crystal]

Is there any job for me to work from home

[wraith harbor]

just did a "personality test" for a job app, was basically a series of questions that said "which most closely describes you?" and of the 4 options, 1 option was a positive quality and the other 3 were negative qualities. idk what they expected out of me there

[obsidian iron]

hey guys

i made an encryption and i want someone to crack it and see how smart this community is ;th?4u*#TDS4vUr]x*D,1>[89G$6vaux/nO

the key is 12

[vast shoal]

This is a channel for discussions about careers and the world of work

[smoky plover]

hello guys I am new here

Sorry this is my gaming acc

I have to start python as a career, how can I do so?

[vast shoal]

Go to university, study computer science, get an internship and a degree

or study data science

<@&831776746206265384>

[vapid jay]

is waymo machine learning

https://waymo.com/

@vast shoal

[grave iris]

yes

[vapid jay]

nice sov justv pytorch?

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel, but the internal decision-maker for self-driving cars are created with ML. namely reinforcement learning. you can go to #data-science-and-ml to learn about this.

[vapid jay]

thanks bro

[open ivy]

Most people who are socially isolated are not reaching out. My isolation levels were unusually high considering how much I reached out and how little I would get angry, hold grudges or otherwise be unforgiving of others. But reaching out still helped.

Let's all try least 3 online events and one in person event per week. Most of you will be more successful than me at making new connections if we all do this.

[near pike]

Hi, My name is Alex. It's my first day taking a course called: Python for everybody.

So i'm just here introducing myself, Hello everyone! nice to meet you all

[white relic]

Hi, welcome to the server!
This channel is for discussion about Python and careers. If during your studies you have any questions about Python itself, #python-discussion would be a good place to start.

[lucid matrix]

What sort of online events are you doing

[vast shoal]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[vast shoal]

You can message @severe widget to request permission

[vapid jay]

I wanted to ask where you guys draw the line on evaluating career swappers/bootcampers, as well as skills listed on a resume.

I'm in a position where I can refer people I know to be devs at my employer but am unsure of how to properly vet them. In particular they will often include something on their resume that I feel is untrue, unqualified or misleading.

For instance, I had a friend who received a quantitative degree (not CS), who listed a back end framework on it. This is nice, however he has never read a networking textbook. I could live with him not understanding the os scheduler handling many requests in parallel, but I'm not sure where to draw the line.

I'm having trouble forwarding it to my employer. Basically I requested he take off several languages and frameworks, with basically nothing meaningful left. Imo people are more of a liability than an asset where I work if they haven't worked through these textbooks and done projects related to them.

Basically I view every dev is both a liability and asset, and every PR is a possible liability. If someone does not have deep knowledge of what it is they're doing, they're liable to cause severe problems. I don't work in an industry where you can move fast and break things, people will die.

When someone lists a language, I assume this means they understand the idiomatic way to write it, OOP, possibly FP concepts, the concurrency scheme which probably involves os details like the scheduler, the standard library, which implies dsa, stack vs heap, again os level details.

For a back end framework at least TCP/UDP, IPv4, IPv6, DNS, TLS, HTTP, etc.

I myself kind of resent the advice of "go build stuff" without also mentioning formal study of these topics. Obviously they don't want the answer to get another degree in the USA of all places. They could go work through a book on the language, OOP, DSA, comp arch, os, networking, and dbs and be a good candidate, but at that point why not get a degree?

Sorry for the long winded post dudes, let me know if you feel I'm being too hard on people before referring them. I don't want to gatekeep my own friends but at the same time I almost feel negligent referring any of the bootcampers/career swappers who have asked me so far, and I feel the skills they list, they often understand so poorly that they are on the brink of lying.

[balmy spade]

"Go build stuff" is how you learn. That's step one. If you can't develop the discipline to just build things there isn't anything that formal study will provide.

Not to hand-wave the post at all. If the job has a gate to pass then your interview process should be that filter. Is the requirement a degree? Filter to that. Don't hold back. Let HR (hiring) do their job.

As for the liability versus asset. Yes, all employees are both. However, a new hire should not be able to "cause severe problems". Nobody should be working alone or in a silo of one. If a new-hire can break production without the break slipping past at least two other sets of eyes, there's more wrong than the new-hire's code.

[buoyant seal]

There are two types of evaluations interviewer can be doing:

• Straight going for practical stuff person will be actually doing at work, checking his refactoring skills on a code example, checking his design skills, checking different theoretical stuff if it is actually being often needed, including about code architecture and etc, checking depth to the tech stack he uses
  • with sum of checks on practice and really practical theoretical skills a person can be evaluated
  • Also nice just straight checking their github how they do their work, that helps me often confirming if i made right evaluation
• Or you can be checking obscure stuff he never will need, but u will feel gratification from your shown supremacy during interview and asked questions that yet another candidate did not answer them
  tldr: try not to follow into second category with how u make your evaluations and aim more for the first case 🙂

[vapid jay]

Well yes, I just meant the vast majority I've met would fail the former.

[buoyant seal]

i don't remember to be honest having succesful career swappers/bootcampers on my mind. Each succesful hire i had i think had CS degree.
Otherwise i will be evaluatiing

1. Their Github, does it have equal to what u expect from Middle ranked dev?
2. I would be usually expecting more years of experience from career swappers/boot campers, 3 years minimum highly likely, but they often lie about this number so not really telling anything

• I would be questioning what they did at their work, and stuff like they spent mostly time project managing will be a red flag for me since they did not grow as devs then

3. in the end evaluation is good doable only during tech interview and seeing for yourself if they are able to do practical part, and if they are able answering questions in a free style interview almost.

The good thing u can do, minimize time of evaluation. If u see that person fails miserably in all directions, in practice, theory and no portfolio. Cut the interview short and end within 30 minutes from the start. Just spend less time on them.
Most people barely qualify to be a junior beginner (even less than that), that's often enough quick visible thing to do

I enjoyed to give some open ending questions if necessary, questioning how they did their previous stuff (with taking into account what they mentioned in resume), asking opinions about different stuff. It is more time consuming, but helps to make more precise evaluations. Preferably best to do for candidates u are certain aren't a waste of time to do so. Experienced devs have plenty of opinions, including about coding architecture stuff, how they understand its different stuff.
I don't try to get answer Yes or No or some Exact specific right answer, i ask how they can describe stuff to their best effort from the top of their head and try to see level of understanding

[buoyant seal]

Otherwise practical exercies are always telling too, i was giving the worst code i could make/find within 100 code lines (often taking from people who posted it at this Discord) and asked to improve it/refactor how they can. It was always telling... their experience, how well they flare in this exercise.
I tried to break every possible rule for writing maintainable code in the example, there was plentiful of things to improve so it was interesting to see which kind of problems they will spot.
People getting used to coding properly and having real dev experience always had ideas how to improve stuff. Experienced people nicely surprised me further.

I tried to give practical exercise after i questioned theoretical stuff, including about unit testing and other architecturing stuff, so they would refresh different stuff first and it would have served as a hint what kind of stuff can be improved in the given worst possible code ever

Shrugs. I think my threshold was always ability to unit test code properly. i was hiring Middle ranked devs, and all people not knowing how to do it or with quite low level of understanding to the common problems related to doing that were quickly having their interview ended (majority of them) as it was clear sign to me that they are below Middle level. (i was hiring for Backend dev position)
I did not really use CS degree as marker, although it was a positive sign for me

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I'll let HR do their job. I'm leaning towards telling anyone who isn't obsessed with computers or extremely hardworking and intelligent to get a degree when it comes up, if their github isn't strong. I work with amazing self taught devs who are better than myself and many grads but they're usually in those categories, I think they could've made anything work frankly. EE guys were also often very good. We obviously have CI/CD and PR. I'll ask mgmt how much they're actually willing to train rn. They seem less willing than a couple years ago when I got in.

@buoyant seal As you say in my personal experience I just haven't been seeing the self taught coders in my life (outside of work, which is severe bias) have great outcomes. What would've worked for them in 2022 for instance stopped working in 2023 largely. I saw some friends without degrees get laid off and have a lot more trouble as it seemed ATS was filtering them. I don't think it's a particularly advisable route myself but I respect why people in the USA want to avoid 4 years of lost income and severe debt.

[buoyant seal]

For that matter unit testing threshold is also threshold i will be using when searching new jobs too 😅
If they don't do it. To hell them. I value my mental sanity.

[fringe sphinx]

Everybody is different and has a unique background. Find a way to build on your background, rather than ignore it. A lot of "bootcampers" end up in SWE-adjacent roles... like devrel and sales engineering... stuff that can build on their diverse background.

[paper mica]

Best advice dont ever come to india ever

Shiiity country in the world

[summer roost]

sounds to me like you're expecting way too much from someone applying to their first job, but - if you wouldn't want someone as a coworker, don't refer them. You don't need any better reason than that

[peak halo]

Can a mod delete/warn?

[grim spoke]

HI

[leaden jasper]

!warn 511203127752523776 Don't advertise in this server. Please re-read our #rules

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @zealous tundra.

[grim spoke]

Hi!

[peak halo]

Yes, hello, what do you want to talk about?

[median grove]

Hello uh I'm a freshman trying to learn how to code. By the time I try to get a job AI will be a huge part of our life and I really want to learn it. Can anyone give me advice on like how to learn the basics and tips?

[peak halo]

I would start by looking at different types of datasets and getting a feel for how to manipulate them and what sorts of things they can be used for.

Are you a freshman in highschool or college?

[modest kraken]

What company is this for? I feel like everybody should be well rounded

[smoky quest]

@vapid jayI don't think you are too hard on it. They are all legitimate concerns, if applicable. I will also assume the work is heavily network related as to require that much knowledge about ipv4 vs ipv6.
At the end of the day, it's about the intersection of:

• What are the skills required to be successful at the job? What are the things they can learn on the job vs they could not?
• What is the state of the market? If you could get another candidate who is better for the same price, why settling for less?
• Do you have a personal interest or relationship? For instance, that person being your nephew may override some of the concerns

So it's less about whether that candidate is a bootcamp or not, and more about whether we are talking about the best candidate for the job. And to do so, you need a clear and well defined set of criteria and behaviors for the role.

Also note that whoever you refers can be interpreted as a reflection of your skills to your peers. This is less applicable to large companies though, but worth keeping in mind as well.

[light tusk]

Hi folks, I'm a self-taught Django developer. This is my personal website is at dogaegeozden.com. How can I find a job?

[olive dirge]

Internship for what role specifically please

[untold compass]

Hello. I'm in school for computer science and data analysis. What kind of project should I do over the summer while I have free time for portfolio building

[lunar sand]

Hey
I've been wandering about pushing my career path towards devops engineering but first wanted to start with web automation to build experience and skill and then scale up to devops and CI/CD or cloud engineering but was not sure if it's still on demand besides I feel abit lost
Just need an advice pls

[vast shoal]

Software developer, probably

Or maybe data engineer or something, I'm not too familiar with that field

[buoyant seal]

but was not sure if it's still on demand besides I feel abit lost
Open your country local search, and verify how many job vanacies are present for specific job role
Then check separetely for junior/middle/senior positions

[lunar sand]

Alright
I'll try that

[cerulean vale]

hello im new here im for assistance in doing my first python test, but i have no idea of what to do kindly help

[distant bear]

do you guys think learning opencv python is a good way to start python as a beginnner

[radiant jewel]

Cybernetics to contribute to transhumanism

[next plover]

any internship is good if you can at least network with people in your field, i went from insurance intern to security analyst

internships can be very saturated so sometimes you wont get into your exact field, or in my case you wont get anywhere near it

[deft herald]

No not really. Beginners should learn the language fundamentals first, then move on to complicated libraries

[shy summit]

Hi guys

i am new to python

[vapid jay]

You should have more imagination.

And get rid of free time

[fast fossil]

I'm sure they have plenty of imagination of what projects they could do, but I suspect they're really asking for what sort of a project would be beneficial for them.
What does getting rid of free time mean? For one, they're already planning to at least partially do that... by making a project for their portfolio

[vapid jay]

One that impresses people and is not the same stuff everyone does.

[fast fossil]

Crucially it has to be something they're interested in too

[vapid jay]

Imagination solves that

[fast fossil]

I suppose, but just saying to someone that they "should have more imagination" is not particularly helpful, don't you think?

[vapid jay]

No, I think it is very helpful. If you are going to commit yourself to a very demanding job, you should be ready to do it all of the time. Because there are people who do it all of the time and never run out of ideas and will do it for so much less.

[vast shoal]

I don't think it's a very demanding job, tbh.

Just a normally demanding job. With better work environments than most professions, I suspect.

I also don't believe in overworking yourself. Not only is it unsustainable, I don't think it's very productive either.

[white relic]

there are people who do it all of the time and never run out of ideas and will do it for so much less.
curiously, I've never met a software engineer who meets these criteria.

unless "never" means "not until they inevitably burn out in a matter of months"

[untold compass]

I just wanna say thank you for being so nice to me in two discords lol

[median grove]

highschool

[vapid jay]

I learned a lot from just implementing existing stuff, and trying to incorporate best practices. A basic torrent client is a cool project if you don't want to be creative. Making a basic HTTP server from tcp sockets and multi-threading is good. Try to incorporate docker, unit testing, e2e/mock tests, etc. Basic emulators are fun, try to make it very modular to get better at OOP, testing, logging, debugging etc. CHIP-8 (easiest)/6052/8086/NES. I mainly suggest these because I think they're cool but they're good learning exercises too. When I forced myself to make full stack web apps only because it seemed optimal instead of what I find cool, I would burn myself out.

I like this repo, it contains a ton of project ideas that are not particularly original: https://github.com/codecrafters-io/build-your-own-x

[vapid jay]

Involves embedded medical devices + medical APIs, in retrospect I was being kind of harsh. I ended up giving my friend advice to read a networking book, a db book, and had a convo with my boss about how much the company is willing to train so there was no misunderstanding. My friend actually has a ton of math/stats related skills so they're happy to interview him and let him learn some of the coding side, because they lack people with that background instead of CS.

[vapid jay]

How many people even have a job when they write code for ML? It has to be such a small percentage of software engineers. Even though AI is always talked about, the people who actually do it is so small and it’s a very niche thing to do in reality. Like to really do.

[vast shoal]

Are you asking how many people develop ML algorithms and frameworks? Or how many people work with ML models in data analysis and engineering?

The former may be quite limited, but I think there are quite a lot of positions for the latter.

[vapid jay]

I mean, like, there has to be a massive demand and a very short supply.

[vast shoal]

I don't know about "very short", there seems to be a lot of people studying data science in recent years.

[vapid jay]

I just don’t think much of the population can really do most of the tasks being asked in all honesty.

I don’t even work in ML. I just write code for economics and finance stuff, that’s my job I guess.

[vast shoal]

I think someone who's able to work as a software engineer would probably also be able to work in data science and satisfy most business needs given the right training.

[vapid jay]

They need a degree in quantitative economics and need to take a very good amount of math and stats and know about trends and market demand and other things that are not very computer science-ish

[white relic]

Most people can't fix cars, but there's still plenty of work for mechanics.
I'm not sure what your point is.

[vast shoal]

I'm not saying a software engineer can do it, I'm saying if you can become a software engineer, you could probably also manage to complete a data science degree and work in that field.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, frat boys go insane looking at code

[white relic]

there are certainly high specialty fields that are hard to get into, but not everyone needs to get into them, right?

[vapid jay]

Like, they think garbage is amazing

[vast shoal]

As for domain knowledge, it's not always necessary to have one person have all the requisite knowledge, you can have a data engineer, data scientist and quant cooperate to develop the model.

[vapid jay]

I pretty much am a quant, which is weird

And C++ is not needed.

[vapid jay]

It seems like some ppl call themselves quant when they code for the exchange or optimize an algorithm no? I had heard that there's quant which is the math/stats heavy people and then some guys doing c++ and going super deep on reducing latency, maybe these guys are better referred to as working in hpc? I don't know enough.

Anyway, most people who studied math or stats that I've met tend to agree with you when I asked that AI/LLM question. I think there's a pretty big problem with titles in this industry meaning whatever people want them to mean. Not even to flame anyone, A good friend of mine called himself a data scientist but then said actually what he does is more data engineering. You see it in data science a lot.

[vapid jay]

Yes. And I do agree that any ML stacked IT lad would steam roll any quant

I was really interested in this subject bc I wanted to get a job in more interesting work involving c++ so I researched some of it. If you're in quant, do you mind if I dm?

[vapid jay]

Go for it

One thing in general, arbitrage will always be snipped out. So even if someone could make any profit from it through C++ and HFT, it wouldn’t matter. That’s boomer stuff

[modest kraken]

I feel like embedded stuff is something that’s benefited by a cs degree, but a lot of people I know that are really good at it are self taught still

[crimson mortar]

hi

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> identity theft

[summer roost]

!cban 1198925554515189932 work authorization scam

!pban 1198925554515189932 work authorization scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @mint vigil permanently.

[grizzled rain]

🍑

👏