career-advice

[pine sleet]

besides luck, you should try to get into tech-adjacent roles like QA or IT which typically have a lower barrier to entry then pivot into SWE from there

[still condor]

More specifically, I found a small business that decided to trusted me to do some project. And that's how I got my first line of real experience on the resume

[red bloom]

oh ok

[still condor]

but I wouldn't recommend going that route, I regretted it because I clearly lacked the experience needed to do the job well

I would've definitely been better off as part of a team of more experienced people

[tranquil storm]

There is a ton I have been learning. Stuff I had no idea that I didn't know. There is still a lot I need to learn. The stuff I want to learn and need to learn seems like it is ever growing. That degree can fill in some of the critical gaps in knowledge and processes that you'll need to succeed.

[red bloom]

do i buy a book for python?

[tranquil storm]

nah. A book isn't necessary.

[wraith harbor]

click on that resources page theres a lot of good free stuff there

[red bloom]

oh ok sure thanks

is learning basics from youtube a good start?

[wraith harbor]

from what ive seen most youtube tutorials are pretty bad

[peak halo]

you won't passively learn from watching the videos, so you need to actively apply what you're learning.

[red bloom]

can you guys suggest me from where i should learn?

[wraith harbor]

i would suggest Automate the Boring Stuff with Python as a good starting point

[tranquil storm]

There is a free course on Coursera that I started with. I think it is also in the resources page. not a bad place to start.

[red bloom]

on resource page?

[wraith harbor]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[red bloom]

i cant find it 😦

[tranquil storm]

Learn to Program: The Fundamentals University of torronto

[red bloom]

oh ok thnks

[tranquil storm]

Very basic, but it is a start.

[wraith harbor]

ive got a resume question:
I wanna add an app that I made with a friend under an LLC to my resume. Do you think its best to put it as a job, or a project? I also don't know if I should talk about like our ARR or something like that, since its doing decent money/popularity wise.

to be honest its one of the better parts of my resume so i really want it to be seen by hiring managers

[tranquil storm]

I don't know that it matters if it is under job or project. Was it a job, or a side project? It is always good to discuss results on a resume. Built xyz app that abc'd to success. blah blah blah.

[red bloom]

thank you i found it

[tranquil storm]

Their type hinting method is dated, but otherwise it is a solid starting point.

[red bloom]

oh ok

[tranquil storm]

Type hinting in Python used to be the wild west. Now there are actual standards for how it should be done, even if they aren't enforced by Python.

[wraith harbor]

yeah i guess ill go project then, i do tend to overthink these inconsequential details sometimes. thanks for the tips

[red bloom]

i was learning from here before https://youtu.be/ix9cRaBkVe0?si=tlHffuMkbRRbEStv

i don think its tht different from the coursera one

[wraith harbor]

go with what you feel best about, but the coursera one is made by actual university professors and comes with assignments

[red bloom]

oh ok thanks for telling 🙂

[peak storm]

@red bloom Try scrimba.com. Python course

[red bloom]

oh ok

[red bloom]

is it free?

[hallow turret]

can anyone help me ?!

[peak storm]

Not fully. But you can watch and write code in a single platform upto some extent.

[red bloom]

oh ok

[hallow turret]

i need someone to help me code an day trading bot

[modest kraken]

How are college sophmores with little experience besides school volunteering getting internships at MAANG and other big tech companies

[vapid jay]

they suck ppl off

[wraith harbor]

hard work + luck

[modest kraken]

plan b

[vapid jay]

they get connections and look like they know something

don’t do python development pythons st8 buns learn js im fluent in python but would recommended c++, js, and html

[modest kraken]

Why

[vapid jay]

i’m lying it’s amazing do python

[red bloom]

in what python usually used for?

[uncut bay]

everything

[errant siren]

Just out of curiosity I wanna ask as a developer who can make complete explorers on chain who understands blockchain and who can work with apis run nodes and validators index blockchain data who have learned react, typescript and mid level python and have experience of more then year
Also who have degree in Information Technology

How much would you guys be like to get paid an hour as a developer with these skillset??

(This is a survey question as I come from developing country I wana figure how much under wage am I right now)

[fringe sphinx]

Wages are very country specific. You can't compare across countries.

1 year experience still makes you a junior engineer (unless you have something really spectacular). And, by IT degree, is this a non-computer science degree or just another name for a CS degree (some universities have odd names).

[errant siren]

it is just another name for CS degree

[errant siren]

yes I'm a junior engineer I really don't consider myself expert yet but imagine you getting paid $1.5/hr with that much experience and know how of field?

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on country and wage norms

[haughty parrot]

hey guys, can i create a program that lets me create a password for any folder on my pc that i want? a simple gui that has a browse button then when i select my folder it lets me create a password and whenever i open the folder from any location, it runs the code and asks me for my password?

[peak halo]

it's possible, but make sure the technique you're using to generate the password is cryptographically secure. the python random module is not sufficient.
This would be a question for #cybersecurity or #user-interfaces .

[urban coral]

Hey guys I completed the CS50 python course and built a few projects.. So what should I study now?

Any particular library or anything? Idk tbh

[hasty carbon]

@urban coral is that course any good?

[pine sleet]

Keep making more ambitious projects

[vast shoal]

What are your long term goals?

[brisk swift]

Hello yall my CS50 is almost over I wanted from where should I learn pandas next and if there anyone here who a data analyst or indian who can help me for it's certification or roadmap I'd really appreciate that

[peak halo]

there's a link to the kaggle pandas tutorial on our resources page, which is what I recommend as a daily pandas user.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[brisk swift]

Also is doing CS50 course enough for me to understand pandas?

[peak halo]

idk, I haven't done it.

[brisk swift]

Okayy thanks

[lucid matrix]

I thought that class was a general intro to Python and not specifically about Pandas

Whoops misread sorry

[peak halo]

<@&831776746206265384> it looks like @fair island is voice gate spamming

[compact condor]

I have an interview for a high school software engineering internship this upcoming Tuesday. Any advice? I don't believe I'll get asked technical questions.

By the way it's with the Texas-based grocery chain H-E-B.

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice is: 1. Prepare for the obvious easy questions: tell me about yourself? Why do you want this internship? What about HEB interests you? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Etc

2. Practice -not- knowing the answer to a question. 'How would you design a Twitter replacement?'

(The general answer is: gee, I don't know, but let's talk through the process I'd follow to understand the requirements /etc)

[pine sleet]

HEB internship would he based

[compact condor]

I appreciate the tips

[sacred chasm]

Hello, I'm Navnit. A pleasure to meet you all. I am a Microsoft Student Ambassador, so anyone planning to set up a startup, affiliated with a start up or do own a start up,do reach out to me.😁

[vast shoal]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[vast shoal]

Also see the channel description

[vapid jay]

Hey everyone! 👋
I’m planning to start learning full-stack web development and I’m a bit overwhelmed tbh 😅. I’d love to connect with someone who has experience in this area—whether it’s for general guidance, tips on where to start, or just to have someone I can reach out to if I get stuck.

If anyone’s open to helping out or mentoring a bit, even casually, I’d be super grateful! 🙏
Thanks in advance!

[vast shoal]

People are typically not willing to 1-1 tutor people for free. But we have lots of resources and knowledgeable people available to help you in the public channels of this server.

As for your question, learning a backend programming language like Python is a good first step to learn web development, and that also happens to be the main purpose of this server.

!res We have this page with learning resources. I personally recommend the free online Harvard course CS50P, which is linked from the page below. But there are lots of other good options there as well.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[rose swallow]

my first time to see someone recommendes C++ !

[pallid aurora]

Do devops "dev" a lot? I want to attend networking and Telecom software university + learn python and maybe get security+ or ccna(or other relevant certs in this matter) . I'm kind of confused of what work i will be doing though

I'm in between choosing to selflearn autocad or other software like that or attend univ and go the networking + dev way

[white relic]

devops just means a role or department that combines aspects of development and operations. There's a wide range within that, from people who spend equal time doing both to people who might be entirely one or the other but on a multidisciplinary team.

[fleet iris]

Is hacking legal. Why dont youtube bans or removes videos that do this like.people trying to reverse engineer stuff. Gets tokens uses this to locate the threat actors etc
Am talking about videos like 'i hacked this hacker/scammer'

And is hacking a good field to get into?? thats my exact question is it legal

[white relic]

Your interests are a bit spread out here. The overlap of Python with security+ or ccna and AutoCAD isn't big. Are you thinking of some particular career path or role?

[fleet iris]

And people even promote hacking tools in these videos

[pallid aurora]

I'm thinking of Something fairly comfortable to do (for ex doing networking jobs , making networks , automating reason why i want to learn python along with bash) and stuff like that

Basically being "chill" . I heard that security jobs are very stressful though

I love linux , but i cant say i lpve Python yet 🙂 i kinda like it , but didnt get to do any big projects reason why i'm still in the middle about it . Also i'm focusing on greenfielding a lot and learning it without any help from AI

[pallid aurora]

To sum it up i would say i wanna be "the IT guy" but a bit more than that if it makes sense:). I wanna follow my dreams while having a nice career in this way and not devote 90% of my life to working

[white relic]

Hacking, i.e. gaining unauthorized access to computer systems, is illegal pretty much everywhere. As for why YouTube videos portraying it are left up, that's a complicated question, but not really one for this channel. (Note that discussion of specific hacking techniques, including using Python adversarially, are off-topic for the whole server per rule 5)

[white relic]

The legal side of hacking falls in the field of cybersecurity. Securing computer systems against attacks. There are overlaps in the skills required but I'm not knowledgeable about that field

[white relic]

The IT department in many companies does do some of all of that.
The closer you are to "operations", the more likely you are to have to be on call, to fix critical infrastructure when it goes down or respond to a malware incident at 2 a.m. on a Sunday or whatever

[buoyant seal]

Depends on company understanding of DevOps.

Usually its jobs range between:

• you are backend dev too, and just doing more infra involved tasks
• you are using infra code stuff only (AWS, terraform, pulumi, kubernetes, bash) and operations
• you are legacy infra dev working with ancient tech like windows servers, or dealing with Linux via Ansible or Salt or Puppet
  Accordingly some of those jobs can be cloud only, and some involve interacting with hardware and being on call

[pallid aurora]

Woah makes sense

[pallid aurora]

Oh damn windows server sounds brutal 🤣. Ty for the info though . So besides python i should know how to work with ansible and cloud platforms

[buoyant seal]

It is good idea to orient yourself towards more quality infrastructure if possible

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#Terraformupandrunnning
Learning terraform is always great idea.

I am fan of having only Stateless(keep your state in external DBS and S3 buckets) container scheduled infra that u can easily scale horizontally
And controlling it all with code stored in Git completely

[pallid aurora]

So u suggest learning terraform for the future?

[buoyant seal]

I personally chosen to never ever work with Windows.

I know how to use Ansible, and it can be useful, but I will never pick working with company that uses Ansible/salt/chef/puppet as main means for deployment.

Because it is magnitude times different in terms of quality and mental sanity preservation.

Container scheduled immutable infra is way better, and easy to revert changes if necessary

Container scheduled infra has its own disadvantages though in terms of complexity. Kubernetes is not very simple thing.
I love simplicity of AWS ECS and docker swarm though

[pallid aurora]

Fair enough, sounds like a plan. I'm trying to finish learning python at a begginer to mid level till this summer ends . Then ill start university but ill try to look into terraform and cloud infrastructure manipulation

Hopefully i can land a job after 4 years of uni and this knowledge. Also aws sounds good , i've used them a couple of times but idk if me having a vps at them means ik how to do infrastructure:)

[buoyant seal]

Invest yourself into learning backend development, then u will be very useful real DevOps engineer.

Popular backend languages are Java, Golang, .Net, Python and JS/TS (pick at least 2 languages to get serious with)

Make projects related to backend, use infra related stuff to augment them properly

DevOps engineer without dev part is essentially just renamed System administrator with extra complexity of workload

[pallid aurora]

I was thinking about python which i'm working on rn , then golang as it seems more "humanlike"

[pallid aurora]

Oh well makes sense . Although sysadmin as a entry level job for then to work as devops sounds like a plan

[delicate kayak]

anyone help https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1363147991539519728

[serene bramble]

Hello guys : )

[white escarp]

i just found this sweetass code from an italian youtuber, it can be used to make someone's Fortnite crash

[peak halo]

@white escarp you will probably be banned if you try to share or discuss malicious code again.

[white escarp]

ohhh shit, sorry

[peak halo]

I hope you find something constructive to do with your time.

[white escarp]

nahh, i didnt mean to do anything maliciuous (mostly because its not even worth it)

[pallid aurora]

Also always doublecheck code before u ever run it. In the eyes of a hacker this server is a good place to advertise powershell rats or other malware. Especially in this section where people are seeking advice

[rugged axle]

why the f does the market feel so tough ?

[bleak relic]

Because you are not good enough to feel easy

[rugged axle]

I have a job I just want a higher paying one

[bleak relic]

That job comes along with more qualifications and experience. Maybe waiting is happiness

[rugged axle]

I am not waiting. I dont want to wait

[bleak relic]

If you are good enough, companies will come to you. Just be aware of your ability

[vagrant coyote]

Yo what’s up guys

[rugged axle]

I have been apporached by some but their pay isnt high enough

[bleak relic]

Bro is like a princess who wants love but doesn’t love normal guys

[rugged axle]

Goooddamit

[vagrant coyote]

Haha

[urban coral]

its pretty good tbh.. it covers the basic

[urban coral]

what kind of projects? i made a billing and trasaction project using python and sql

[pine sleet]

the kind doesn't really matter, as long as it's in increasing complexity

[urban coral]

idk tbh

[pine sleet]

can you talk about it in depth if asked in an interview? can you talk about challenges you had, how you overcame them? some interesting decisions you made and why you made that? stuff like that

[urban coral]

ohh i see

[rugged axle]

I dont know what to do. I have hit a plateau tbh. I wanna surpass it

[hearty island]

i have a job and i just applied for an internal transfer for two roles on thursday & friday.

currently in process for both

[white relic]

This is untrue. Many people miss opportunities because they don't put themselves out or take steps to be in the right place at the right time. Moreover, the job market at this time isn't so good that companies really need to be hunting for experts to poach from other employers. Jobs don't happen automatically to deserving people

[buoyant seal]

some companies are made to make things difficult in addition.
Like Yandex with its 10 rounds of leetcoding 😅
how much insane u are supposed to be to go through it, and learning skill throughly not relevant to your job?

[buoyant seal]

in addition all job search is made very difficult (time consuming and expensive) because majority of people in hiring systems lie about skills and experience
like.. u can expect for 1 real person to have dozens of fake

[white relic]

Some companies just have so many applicants that they do stuff like that just to cut down the pool

[modest kraken]

💀 I think that bar is pretty high right now

[balmy spade]

It's higher than it's been in comparison to the trend of the last eight or so years. It's far from unattainable though.

[shell bronze]

Guys

[bright grotto]

Hey

[fleet iris]

Hey guys i feel sad, My university grades for semester 3 came out and it shocked me. i scored C+ in both DSA and Java. but i was expecting much more. i had A in both DSA and Java Labs
i don't know how i scored this low. i was expecting at leat a B+ (given for revaluation) .
Total CGPA for S3 is 7.6 😭

But my question is am i going to be cooked in the technical interview during final year with this mark in DSA and Java ?

[wanton birch]

What degree exists which if one completes and does well in will definitely lead to employment in that field?

[peak halo]

Nothing is guaranteed, but CS degree holders usually get jobs.

[wanton birch]

I should have framed it better. I meant for the most part.
What proportion of CSE grads end up working in CSE fields? I am not sure where to find that data

[peak halo]

There are a lot of types of jobs that CS degree holders might get. You'd need to define some boundaries for which ones you think are CS/E.

[pine sleet]

bureau of labor statistics probably has this data

[peak halo]

At this point I just sort of assume websites for federal entities are offline or dysfunctional.

[pine sleet]

but i'd guess the majority of CSE grads end up working in a related field

[wanton birch]

First filter would be jobs that at least advertise asking for a CS degree. That type. Sure they can go work for non CS jobs or even non software/electronics companies but that is not about the CS degree.

[pine sleet]

if you want to go into software engineering or similar then a CS degree is definetely the way to go. find the field you want to work in and work backwards from there

[wanton birch]

I don't know how to find this info. I don't even know how these people track these things. A lot of the times, governments like to quote numbers of increases in jobs but I am not sure how they are counting that.

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Generally speaking, that'd make the most sense for someone who intends to work in that industry to that capacity.

[clever shell]

can i have a convo with someone that has a job in python?

id love to see ur github, and what it takes to get the job:)

to become a software engineer how many languages do i need to know?

[white relic]

at least as pertaining to the BLS, it's hardly a secret. https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/oews/data.htm

[near ocean]

You can ask here what you would ask someone who works with python for work

For my case, they asked about my projects at job #1, small summary really nothing in depth, couple easy leetcodes, and a presentation
For job #2 nobody asked about github, it was 4 leetcodes from easy to medium

[clever shell]

its more like, i wanna have a conversation with them to know their story, the steps they took to get the job, and their github to compare it to my own and generally a goal to strive to.

right now it feels like im just likee, coding for the sake of it 🤷‍♀️

[clever shell]

thats useful to know, ty :D

[hearty island]

my reaction when 532 of my firm's employees on LinkedIn majored in accounting xd
mgr: "how does forensic accounting help you"

the data here does not lie dude

[crisp stream]

What do the History majors do?

[hearty island]

good question

[hearty island]

examiners mostly

[hearty island]

a lot of more senior people studied history... back then you could get in with an unrelated major

nowadays tho we are looking for people who have basic accounting & financial securities knowledge

[gritty rivet]

What worked for me in early 2022 wouldn't cut it today. People with CS degrees and internship experience are struggling to get their first job now.

I had some years of experience in IT support, an unrelated degree and a bootcamp portfolio when I managed get hired for one of those very rare roles that are truly entry-level and focused on Python without requiring advanced knowledge of JS or other languages. It was hard enough back then and the market was much .more favorable

I'm not trying to be discouraging but I have no idea whether and how a.self-taught programmer with no relevant degree or experience can hope to get hired in 2025

[clever shell]

im pursuing a bachlors rnn

ill have it in 2 years and from what im hearing all i can really do is hope the job market gets better by the time i graduate :/

[vast cave]

What? So are u saying that Python isn't used in jobs? I might've misinterpreted the information

[crisp stream]

I managed get hired for one of those very rare roles that are truly entry-level and focused on Python without requiring advanced knowledge of JS or other languages.
This reads to me as their familiarity with Python was what got them the job.

[hearty island]

i got hired because i showed an interest in a firm no one was really applying to multiple times

networked the right way and ended up getting the role. been there for 8 monthss ow

[quartz vigil]

Hey, I’m struggling to find anyone who can take volunteers and I’ve been using python for 4 years, developed 3 published games, created automation for tasks that would take a repetitive amount of time, and even created a TikTok to show my work. If anyone has any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[clever shell]

if someone like you cant even get a volunteer position... im so cooked 💀

[quartz vigil]

I have high hopes 🥲

[buoyant seal]

i wrote article for how to make great github projects 😏 https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
Besides that u could check if desired my github as well https://darklab8.github.io/blog/pet_projects.html , linked some of my projects at this page

[fair island]

hello

[near ocean]

Volunteer positions arent a thing at companies
Go volunteer for a charity instead

[forest escarp]

Ello

[fair island]

hi

[open ivy]

Applying for jobs has never given me any contacts, no one reached out and said "I liked you but my company was unable to hire you, can we meet for coffee". Those 800 applications gave me nothing.

A couple of in-person networking events and I got over a dozen Linkedin requests. Even online networking has seemed to work OK at giving me contacts, not bad considering online networking is low-effort.

However, many people still like to send out cold job applications at scale. Are they having more success at forming new connections that way? It seems like a very "un-natural" social interaction and I never made a friend that way. But maybe I am missing some social trick to get some form of connection on a fraction of failed job applications?

[dense mica]

ideally applying for a job should be language agnostic? I've never done language-specific role interviews. Interviews have always been for high level skillset, although I always choose python to conduct my interviews in.

I use Python at my current job but didn't interview for a python specific role

[pine sleet]

i'm class of '27 too, and personally for goal setting i find it easier to focus on making and finishing a project rather than comparing my github to someone else's because its different for everyone and what worked for them may not necessarilyw ork for you

[faint depot]

I hope I can get an apprenticeship before I get into first year of uni (already done foundation year), especially if I dont get a job asap to pay for first year.

[hollow spindle]

Happy easter if you celebrate! He is risen!

[limber creek]

I hate yall
How can a group of ppl be so smart 💔💔

[rotund kindle]

You're definitely not alone in feeling that way — I've had a very similar experience. Mass applications have rarely led to meaningful connections for me either. It's transactional by nature, and unless you’re exactly what they need at that exact moment, it’s often silence.

[vast shoal]

A lot of effort and a lot of experience, mostly.

[patent ingot]

What type of career do you have @vast shoal

[vast shoal]

I'm a software engineer in fintech

[patent ingot]

Dang thats dope when did you start learning code

[vast shoal]

I started when I was a child, but I don't want you to take that to mean that you need to start early to be successful. For the first 5 years or so I didn't really make a lot of progress.

[patent ingot]

Oh I’m 17

[vast shoal]

That's a great time to start

[cold coyote]

hello

[pseudo thunder]

hi, is there any course or program you recommend for python oriented to Financial Planning and Analysis (banking and corporate finance)?

i'm new to Python btw

[eternal summit]

Hey all , I'm a third year uni student and I really want to lock in and become a SWE but I'm still not sure if I should learn front end or backend. I'm really trying to break into SWE fastest way as possbile and get a feel for what I'd actually enjoy the most, what would you guys recommend or rather what route is the easiest to get my foot in the door with the most demand?

[vapid jay]

what programming language would you start learning if you were 13

[peak halo]

Python

[wraith harbor]

projects and internships are the main ways you can stand out. internships are hard to get but projects you can just sit down and do. you can also try contributing to open source projects too

[buoyant seal]

beware the web frontend. it is locked to be usable in JS/TS only today.
it has big problems with code quality, and frontend devs are known to be rarely enjoying such things as unit testing or typing, or proper observability systems for sanity of its debugging
If u are uni student, i will believe u can do more. Try if u wish, but don't have regrets later if it will lock you into career u will not be able to move away later easily.

Backend is nicer because usable with many languages. When(or if) u get dissapointed in JS, or Python, u are able to switch to working with it in languages like Golang, Java, .Net way easier.
also Backend job role makes a good starting point to pick some other job role for synergy with it (or transfer full time to nearby role to it), whatever u will pick (be it Frontend, or Data engineering, or Devops engineering, or even going Mobile development(synergyable between mobile Java and backend Java)
Backend opens roads

[modest kraken]

I’d say contributions to open source especially if the position you are going for has its stuff open sourced is a great way to stand out

[eternal summit]

funny you said unit test, i had to write a test using vitetest for some components and didn't like it at all it's so much easier to write test for other languages so i guess that does help direct me as well

[vapid jay]

perfect i was thinking abt doing python anyways

[coarse kayak]

How can I study to clear python job interviews ?

[peak halo]

getting a CS degree and practicing on your own.

[near ocean]

Are you getting python interviews? Or is this hypothetical

[coarse kayak]

I am getting I cleared one and just generally asking for tips so I can improve more i am 19 with no degree . Will start my bachelor's in may

[near ocean]

If theyre asking you about leetcode type puzzles, then you can practice those
For behavioural stuff like "tell us about a time you had a workplace conflict" you can ask a friend or family member to mock interview you

[coarse kayak]

Ok thanks bro

[pallid aurora]

how much are u guys paid ? (country and position would be helpfull too 😄 )

[near ocean]

You can look this up on glassdoor or indeed

[pallid aurora]

oh is that accurate ?

im guessing the numbers there are without taxes right ?

[near ocean]

Yes they are gross incomes

[pallid aurora]

fair enough , ty

[pallid aurora]

looks like indeed is for USA only

[near ocean]

It's not

[pallid aurora]

when i go to location it only shows states from US

[near ocean]

I guess salary info depends on whether the country has a culture/laws of sharing salary ranges

Im looking at belgium for example and none of the job ads have salaries listed, wild stuff

[trim crypt]

@fleet iris I managed to get my first job, just by answering a job ad. I only had Javascript skill at the time but what they're looking for is someone to help coordinate IT projects. Since I had and learnt that in college and it shows in my transcript, I took the job, prove my worth and continued to grow from there.

[fleet iris]

That's nice

I think the most difficult thing is to get into the field to get that first job

Am from India and the job market is highly competitive here

With amount of students graduating each year. I still am working on my projects looking for web development jobs. I like writing backend code and python.

[trim crypt]

Is it on Github?

[fleet iris]

Yes I will share it, I have to push the current project am working

https://learny.adithyakrishna.me this is one of my older projects it's 6months old

[torn cargo]

What you guys have as your career choice

I have still yet to find mine

For now I take it as world's best ethical hacker

[trim crypt]

Give it a try. You might be great at it

[torn cargo]

Yeah ik but I just know two langs now

[trim crypt]

cybersecurity is more than just learning languages btw. Its actually about learning how data flows, authentication, understanding firewalls, etc

[torn cargo]

I see but to understand bthe flow I need to understand the languages

Like C++ JavaScript etc to use their features

[fleet iris]

https://github.com/ZLaTaN003/TechNews

I had to go and push it now. It's not complete yet

[trim crypt]

You should add a requirements.txt file to understand what to install (and what version). A README.md to guide on what needs to set up (if any) and explain briefly on what the project is about.

I understand its not complete and thats OK.

[fleet iris]

ok I haven't generated that yet I will do it

[fleet iris]

Do you think i should keep this https://learny.adithyakrishna.me in my portfolio i don't have one portfolio website yet. Am planning to complete 3to5 good projects and keep them

[trim crypt]

keep it

[fleet iris]

Ok I also have this https://blog.adithyakrishna.me its just a simple blog this too?

[proud glacier]

Ideally you'd write something in there other than lorem ipsum

[fleet iris]

Ok if I remember I did this 1 year back following some random tutorial

I don't have any like strong projects yet

[livid crescent]

hey https://newslens-landing.vercel.app/

landing page signup to get latest news analysis

[fleet iris]

Nice i am also working on a tech news website

[livid crescent]

dm me

[fleet iris]

You have a question?

[livid crescent]

maybe we can collab

[alpine lion]

hey

[fleet iris]

Yeh maybe but am busy as always due to my university

[alpine lion]

can i like put my yt channel here?

[fleet iris]

Maybe

[livid crescent]

no worries we can talk and we will see some thigns to do

[near ocean]

No ads, its in the rules

[alpine lion]

ok no ads

i did't read them 🙂

[near ocean]

You should read rules you agree to, its not a 500 page novel or anything, its literally a couple paragraphs

[alpine lion]

okay peace

[peak halo]

@livid crescent I removed your message for advertising.

[alpine lion]

then this

[shy sigil]

Did you all go to good universities before getting employed

[peak halo]

if you're getting a bachelors in CS, the prestige of the university you got it from is relatively unimportant. as long as it's accredited (which basically means "not a shitty for-profit degree mill"), that should be sufficient.

[pine sleet]

the quality of your network will be one of the big upsides to going to a prestigious university

[vapid jay]

is starting with c++ a bad idea

since if you start from the hardest the rest will be easy

[still condor]

Yeah, wifi will be higher speed

[pine sleet]

that too

[vast shoal]

I went to a university. Not a well-known one. But I thought the education was good.

[vast shoal]

I think starting with C++ is a bad idea. Not only is it difficult, it's also kind of a messily designed language, which has a lot of weird quirks that aren't really relevant for any other language. I also don't really believe in your hypothesis, I think if you start with something very difficult, you're just more likely to give up early. It's better to start simple and progress gradually to more advanced topics.

[boreal beacon]

and library management and stuff is a pain

[dense mica]

starting with a strongly typed language is a very good idea, but starting with c++ is probably a less good idea

[buoyant seal]

I believe into... programming is hard as it is, no point to make more difficult than necessary. Everything should be justified.
And also that C++ is not very job marketable language in addition, at least in my origin country, so not very rewarding language

If u wish smth relatively hard, and rewarding at the same time (high amount of jobs)
Go for Java(with Kotlin as bonus).
All code architecture books are written with it. Super job popular, usable for backend jobs, mobile android and even desktop and game modding.

[vapid jay]

ah okay thank you all of the feedback

im just gonna do java then

[dense mica]

Java is definitely a good starter language imo

The thing is, Python’s dynamic typing is extremely powerful, and when you come from another language to Python you can easily realise how powerful the language is and what it lets you do.

But if you start with Python I think it can be more confusing or engrain bad habits that make it more difficult to switch to lower level languages in the future

[vast shoal]

It's a difficult question. I do agree that starting with a language that makes concepts like typing (or memory management for that matter) obvious from the get-go has value, because it can be hard to grasp such things when they're sort of hidden from view as they are in Python. On the other, it can be overwhelming for the beginner to have to confront all of that upfront, all at once.

Both approaches (starting with something like Java or C, vs starting with Python) have merits and weaknesses.

[silk rose]

Hi. I had recently a job interview for data processing, data science. Somehow I brought up inheritance vs composition. I could give an example why the design choice of interheritance was not a good idea in that case, but composition would have been better. Liskov substitution principle got violated. In the end, I got the feedback I was too academic.
To be honest, I don't understand this because violating principles can lead to bad code design and it has practical consequences as I could show in an issue on the github repo.
Have you ever experienced something like this? In the past, other people told me I have to know more about software design and architecture. I learned. Would you say knowing about inheritance and composition is too academic?

[peak halo]

did they ask you about inheritance vs composition?
that whole approach to object-oriented design isn't very popular in the data science world.

(that is, in the data science world, you typically only define a python class in terms of a library's API, or to have Enums, or something like that. it's very rare to create a class "from scratch" unless you're writing library code.)

[vast shoal]

I work in fintech, rather than data processing/data science, and we frequently discuss inheritance vs composition. I find it odd that people would have qualms about discussing these topics in any software project of significant scale, but maybe Stelercus is right.

[peak halo]

I've never had a design discussion where either of those words came up.

(Ironically, Liskov used to work for my company.)

[vast shoal]

Well, frequently may be overstating it, but it does come up sometimes.

[silk rose]

I don't remember why I brought it up, the interview was months ago. I would think that the job was composed of writing library code, a workflow. It was in an academic setting with underfunding. Hence no devops that would take the code and put it into production etc. I always thought having a clean API would make life easier. Edit: Also I don't understand why I would be taken as negative factor. It does not harm and I could clearly show what problem the violation caused further down the line.

[vast shoal]

I guess the argument would be that you're focusing too much on something that isn't relevant to the job.

It might not do any harm to know, but if you emphasize it during an interview, you'll give the impression that you think it's very important.

[silk rose]

I understand why you'd think that. But it was a small team—there was no one to clean up after the data scientist. When you're dealing with experimental data coming from multiple sources, some knowledge of software design is actually quite valuable.
In any case, they all found themselves out of their depth.

But yes, maybe that was not in their focus. Fair enough.

[vast shoal]

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. I think it'd be kinda nitpicky to take that as a negative personally.

[silk rose]

In addition, I did not get any scientific questions or data science questions.

[silk rose]

I am sorry. Do you have people cleaning up your code afterwards?

[peak halo]

By "library code" I mean code that actually creates a library, like the actual pandas source code. Not code that uses a library. It's very unusual for research teams to produce libraries.

[silk rose]

Two of them are core devs for a small library. It is not commonly known like pandas.

[vast shoal]

Well, again, I work in fintech, and all the devs are software engineers. We have a review process where each PR is reviewed by one other developer, in addition to automated code quality and linting checks.

[silk rose]

I don't know what are the daily tasks in fintech, but how about risk analysis, some predictions, where maybe more statistics is involved? That is also done by you or the softwar engineers?

[peak halo]

@silk rose hmm, without having been at the interview, my best guess is that you have a different taste for software design than they do, or that there's some other reason they passed on you that they decided not to tell you (like having a different candidate that they liked more).

[vast shoal]

Requirement specifications are written by a different role that we call business analyst, in cooperation with representatives from the client. We then convert those specs into code.

[silk rose]

All of them have worked as scientists before they joined the group. Me too, but I have been trying to pick of more software design and architecture skills. I was told by software devs I would need this. Having worked also as data scientists, software dev all in one role, that was useful for me.

[silk rose]

Thank you for clarification. That was also previously part of my role. Underfunding results in having to do multiple things by one person.

[vast shoal]

I do think software design and architecture skills are important if you want to build larger systems and keep them maintainable. But I'm not sure exactly what data processing and data science codebases typically look like. The way Stelercus phrased it seems to imply there may be less of a need for it compared to for example my case.

[silk rose]

In my world, data processing looks as follows: I/o of multiple filetypes from different sources, chain tasks together that transform the data, doing calibration etc. Then you start extracting information from the data. The order could vary, for exmaple, when you want to to introduce flexibility how the data is processed as clients have different requirements or the experiment is slightly different, arranging data in a clever way if multiple sources needs to be compared.

[silk rose]

"I do think software design and architecture skills are important if you want to build larger systems and keep them maintainable. " - Would you also think this goes for reproducibility, reuse ?

[white relic]

rhetorical question: were they hiring someone to develop a data processing system or were they hiring someone to do data processing?

.xkcd 974

[flat anvil]

XKCD comic #974

I find that when someone's taking time to do something right in the present, they're a perfectionist with no ability to prioritize, whereas when someone took time to do something right in the past, they're a master artisan of great foresight.

2011/11/7 - #974, 'The General Problem'

[silk rose]

The title of the job add was data processing expert , software engineer. The task is to develop a suite of tools, building on top of python libraries. So, not actually processing, but providing tools.

[white relic]

It's not necessarily that anything you said was wrong, but I'd guess you misread the situation, and they probably were more interested in different aspects of your expertise than what you ended up talking about.

the fact that it's a small team, restricted in funding, in an academic (presumably, non-CS) setting, doesn't speak to code quality as being a top concern

[vapid jay]

Python pros : safer route, slow and steady
cons: no really many cons and if there are they areint significant

C++ pros: if you manage to survive the learning curve rest languages become significantly easier
cons: extreamly hard, might give up,

[vapid jay]

ah i see

[silk rose]

Thank you. I guess than it was not the right place for me after all. I want to improve and write good quality code.

[near ocean]

C++ isnt the final boss of programming languages and so it doesnt follow that everything after it will be much easier

ANY language you learn after any other language will be easier

[vast shoal]

Again, the cons of starting with Python is that typing and memory management are hidden from view, so it's kinda hard to get an explicit intuition for how it works, I think.

But I think that's offset by how quick and easy it is to get up and running.

Even if you don't want to start with Python for the reason above though, I really don't think C++ is best alternative.

[white relic]

Yeah. Probably not much to learn from it, if they didn't give you more feedback. It does seem a bit nitpicky, like maybe they had another reason, as someone else mentioned.

[vocal marlin]

ummm someone sent me a command for something

idk what it does

[white relic]

don't run stuff people send you if you don't understand it or trust the person

also, this channel is for career-related discussion

[whole flare]

perhaps you could elaborate a little more in one of the off topic channels 🤔

[pine sleet]

hello, i've deleted your message as we don't allow advertising here

[compact condor]

For someone who aspires to be involved in software engineering, how much should I know as a junior in high school?

[fathom briar]

nothing tbh, thats kinda whst the study is for

[peak halo]

Nothing. Just focus on your grades so you can get into a CS program. Math is most important.

[analog glade]

hello guys! im planning to take the 1101 A+ cert soon, what sould I do to prepare

[true harness]

you can start learning programming in your free time. many cs freshman have never taken a programming course before. but it will definitely help to have a headstart (and you can see if you like it)

[vapid violet]

Or see if your school has any CS classes.

[pine warren]

I have a question to ask, in the data science world are they very strict with you must have a bachelor's degree to get a job, or is there some leeway to where if you have a associates degree they can give you a chance compared to non data science software engineer jobs

[lucid matrix]

For a full time job yeah prob bachelor’s min in a relevant field. Many job postings I see these days want graduate degrees, esp if you are interested in AI

That said I am not in the field but am looking to transition myself. Just going off job postings I have seen

Think most internships I have seen want people enrolled in degree programs altho i wonder how strict that is

[peak pivot]

Extreme is a understatement

[vast shoal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[still condor]

!cleanban 543935694792425475 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @heavy tapir permanently.

[vast shoal]

This is not the topic of this channel, but you can ask in #python-discussion or in #1035199133436354600, or #web-development

[eternal aspen]

My bad, thanks!

[manic sundial]

I create the facebook

[leaden vault]

Guys how good should I be before applying for a job

[peak halo]

there isn't a unit of measure for skill. you should get a CS degree, do well in your courses, and apply for internships.

[leaden vault]

Currently I am self taught

[white relic]

most jobs post minimum requirements, which include things like required education and skills, which you should know about yourself

[peak halo]

I'm worried you'll find that being self-taught isn't viable in the current market.

[leaden vault]

Okay so I should first get a CS degree

Nice so I think I'll just refine my skills until I get one

[placid geyser]

IMO it would depend a lot on your skillset but the main issue will be proof of experience or work record unless you are trying for a very entry level position. Like aside from some known savant edge case no one is going to hire a self taunt senior dev, etc

[fair island]

hello

[lofty wolf]

When is code jam?

[placid geyser]

#pyweek-faq afaik

and also dont post the same thing in random channels

[gritty timber]

Hey everyone can I get some tips about my career, I am an under graduate majoring in Bachelors in Computer Science

I started coding before university and got really pro init

I started from low level languages then started working on Python

then I got interested to learn three.js and complex algebra involved in glsl scripting etc.....

and on the behalf of my skills in three.js I got hired in my first semester, it was a part time job, cause of my cooperation with my colleagues the manager realised that I am doing way better then most of the employess in Python so my position got changed to a Python Developer. I am good at what I do but I get bored really fast. I am curious to work in AI but I dont know where to start and which course can teach me all the things to become a professional really fast. I mean not using pre made models but start to atleast make ones myself even if they are not that good to be better

Should I stay a backend engineer or should I choose AI

[vast shoal]

Maybe stay a backend engineer for now, try doing AI projects and courses in your spare time and if you really like it way better than what you're doing now, then explore ways to transition into it.

[gritty timber]

🤔 I see, any suggestions from where can I learn AI in depth from?

I mean instead of those typical videos where they just grab that openai api and say that we made an ai, not that like one that includes a gothrough from data analyzing, training and then executing etc.

Cause I still got 2 years until I am graduated so this is the perfect time for me to make the switch

[vast shoal]

It's not really my field, so I can't speak as to what courses are good or not.

[gritty timber]

if u dont mind me asking what field are you in?

[vast shoal]

Fintech

Or rather, SWE in fintech

[gritty timber]

Oh I see interesting

[hearty totem]

If you really, really, really feel you can take it try "deep learning" by Goodfellow - a book. That book goes deep into pretty much all the math you need. But be warned, that is the kind of text that expects you to ( 1 ) Google things as you go along the chapters of the book ( 2 ) do a good deal of work by yourself, lest you get lost. It is not a tutorial.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using pre-made models. Reading on how a model been pre-trained, and then speculate some testable conclusions from that information is likely one of the most current forms of black magic. That said, to be good at the later, knowing the fundamentals well helps a lot.

Other than that check the Stanford NLP lectures. They're way more tutorial-like. And pretty good foundation. All of them.

[gritty timber]

Noted, I dont mean that pre-made models are wrong its just that I want to learn more about how they are made instead of trying to figure it out how they can be helpful for me in a particular situation

So if I have I know how it works instead of finding shortcuts I can directly modify the source of the model and make it work like I want

In short I like messing aroung with the source code of a pre-made thing so understanding how it works will make it much easier and better for me to play with it

[ashen marten]

a good career is sysadmin for people with python experience

towards my fundamental knowledge of being within sysadmin for 19 years.

cyber security is also really good for python and a really fun career.

personally for those struggling a suggestion would be forensics/government forensics to be exact, or maybe police forensics. because genuinely it’s a lot easier to learn malware and pc-functions than using genuine Linux.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/tgs-salt-identification-challenge
Try to navigate kaggle for already solved challenges.
Each challenge has Discussions/With tutorials ohw to approach
And different provided solutions
Try to find challenge fitting you, learn/research how they dealt with it

[buoyant seal]

Beware that AI training itself is only final step, and more... work happens in data engineering to prepare data sets first

[buoyant seal]

I would recommend to try all that AI stuff in your free time first, to learn and see if u are able to like it. 🙂
Backend engineer dev in my opinion is very lucrative job role in being good for transitioning to anything else, u could leverage this job role to synergize with some other job roles depending on your desires.
You could expanse your backend development in learning backend development with higher quality languages like Golang, C#, Java
You could learn building quality tools/apps that help development easier
You could learn frontend in addition to your backend
Or you could try your hand in mobile development.
Or you could dab in some server infrastructure stuff
Or u could go with data engineering common job role stuff to learn, that could help you in your AI endavours

Just try not to make mistake of picking job role filled of too much mental insanity stuff, for which can be even challenge to find a job in the first place.
Try to find what u actually like / able to appreciate to work with

[solid cliff]

hii

[buoyant seal]

I personally tried neural networks during university and understood that i am unable to appreciate them. and anything related to them seeing as red flags i wish to avoid tainting my resume, hehe. Too much hyped, unreliable domain full of scam, with mental challenging stuff of having overly long time fo to get feedback in accuracy of its models, and their modifications looked to me overly randomly not pure software development at all related, but more like tuning randomly black box in hopes it will work better next time. I did not see a path to pragmatic perfectionism with them, i saw only path towards overly expensive stuff randomly tried to be working better, with challenging mental sanity in long time for feedback

[tulip slate]

I'm good to go to a university also i want to start early, first year they teach us in computer science engineering dsa and development.. I'm looking for an online free course where they teach by making notes.. I love studying while making notes or u can say the academic way, but on yt they are teaching in a practical way by doing coding directly on a device

[silver hedge]

Hey guys, I have been wanting to pursue a job/career in coding and was wondering if anyone has any tips for me. Like, do I need to go to college/uni (I'm in the UK, by the way) and is it worth it? Also, what type of jobs should I look for, or just tips in general for having a job/career in Python?

[peak halo]

You should pursue a degree in computer science (there are a few similar alternatives), get involved in programming related extracurriculars, and apply for internships. A CS degree has a great return on investment

[vapid jay]

hello

[peak halo]

Hello and welcome to our wonderful career discussion channel. Let us know if you have questions about careers.

[vapid jay]

👍

[manic flint]

Not really python related but have any of yall messed with google ads?

[near ocean]

this is #career-advice

[wanton birch]

What kind of call back rates do you guys get? Say, per 100 applications, if not that then per 10 or 20, whatever makes more sense?
I am asking about the initial screening call/appointment

[peak halo]

it's common to only get a few callbacks per 100 applications.

[trim crypt]

!rule paid ads not allowed here

[dull wadi]

Okay 👍

[nocturne harbor]

This is against the rules, please delete it.

[trim crypt]

Delete it please

[dull wadi]

Done

[green prism]

Not surprising nowadays to get no callbacks

[white relic]

Not surprising perhaps, but you should be constantly evaluating your process and improving your chances.
If you have no callbacks after a weekend of sending out 100 apps, OK, bad luck. No callbacks after several months of focused effort, you should be looking for external perspective. Maybe you're applying to things you aren't qualified for or you're overlooking companies that are small or far away, whatever. It's hard, yeah, but there are jobs hiring. It's a numbers game but it's not all a numbers game.

[pale lily]

Hey guys I am looking at getting better with python so i can excel in it on cyber security field, I need some advice from anyone who from experience and opinion on what framework or security tools i can learn in order to be good at this, I am beginner and I am practically not just coding but understanding the very basic rules and fundamentals of python.

[green prism]

I would agree if the market wasn't what it is right now.
I have applied, re-evaluated, rectified and applied again and repeated this process for a while. However, there is something fundamentally wrong with hirings at this point. Even the most fresher positions require 2 YOE, which, btw, I satisfy but then most orgs now just don't consider internships and even a full-time position if it's not in corporate.

[pale lily]

At this point i suggest that building more project and skills is just the only means to escape this trap game

[supple fjord]

guys i am complete beginner in python and learned up to functions and learned basics, now what can i learn to make it more engaging and suggest me some projects too.

[pale lily]

@evo I think you should start with what interest are you learning for, web design, scripting , security, automation or just for fun. this few will help you narrow down what you have to learn next. I am also on your level, I am looking at security and next I am learning is web scarping and then we can look at automating some security

[supple fjord]

ohh thanks , if you are free then can give me list like webdesign, scripting etc so that i can research and find my interest

[placid geyser]

Also if you dont find programming engaging or interesting it may also not be your cup of tea either.

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

Try different things, as you learn more... more possibilities emerge

[echo agate]

Hello!

I am actively looking for Flutter Development job roles if anybody knows about the opening then please let me know.

[vast shoal]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[echo agate]

sorry I'll take care

[vapid jay]

hello

[placid geyser]

Welcome!

[meager bronze]

is leetcode powerful tool for backend software devloper?

should I use it as a student ?
I actually want to become game devloper

[near ocean]

leetcode is only useful as long as the interview process includes leetcode type puzzles

[peak halo]

leetcode can help you develop your baseline problem solving and programming skills, but it won't help you develop skills in any specific, practical domain of programming.

[meager bronze]

ohh that whats the better way to be good in backend?

[true harness]

doing backend

[peak halo]

@meager bronze come up with things you can make that are "backend" and implement them. they don't have to be practical or useful--they just have to build on what you know in interesting ways.

[supple sphinx]

what strand should i take in high school if i want to take Computer Science in college, ICT or STEM?

[buoyant seal]

1. Doing backend is good idea, making something with keeping web based solution in mind first
   I wrote some advices on this topic here https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html

2. Besides that any complex apps written in the same language of a choice, with challenging you regarding code size and performance its problems will be useful to you. Solving user feature requests and bugs discovered. So it does not have to be exactly backend for your projects only, as long as u did smth useful(or interesting to yourself or some community) in the same language as you intend to use for backend, it will be greatly beneficial too.

• obviously better to have at least one impactful project being very web/backendish in nature at least, the rest i think does not matter if they are tied directly to backend or not, just using same language and challenging its usage to professional way should be enough too

3. Besides all that, good idea to learn Core Software Engineering skills.
   https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
   https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
   https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
   Unit testing is straight necessity to survive in backend code base usually.
   Depending on language and size of code base, there could be need to learn other skills related to architecture to write more maintainable/cleaner code

4. Besides that, just gettting hang of curious fluff of technology related to that can be useful too.
   Like learning docker, or being able to intergrate it with grafana monitoring, or using common databases in general like sqlite3/postgresql and learning in depth how to work with them
   https://roadmap.sh/backend usually all this stuff is mentioned over there

[mossy echo]

Hey guys. I'm new to here (but not entirely new to python). I just wanted your opinions on this

I'm an advanced beginer in python ( I know the basics. Loops, ifs, whiles, input data types... all that kind of stuff) and i've worked on natural language processing using the NLTK library in python. so it's been quite a lot though ofcourse not being familiar with it makes me forget a lot of syntax in the library

I'm presently 17 and will be starting college pursuing a CS and Cognitive Science degree and I'll be working on a research paper on AI before resumption (September) with top level profs and graduates. This paper would be submitted to arXiv and top AI conferences like NeurIPs. I'd be aiming to pursue a FAANG internship though I'd settle for whatever I'll get but my main goal is to master Python Programming by the end of this year up to a given extent.

I'd love anyone that has inputs or advice they are willing to share so I begin working.

[vapid jay]

Does anyone here have a career with FAANG that hasnt gone to college, only respond if you do thanks.

[peak halo]

I would have a contingency plan for where you can submit the paper other than NeurIPS. It will be great if it gets in, but you don't want your paper to not get published.

FAANG isn't the be-all-end-all of software development. There are lots of companies that hire talented developers and compensate them well. Don't get FAANG tunnel vision just because those are the companies you've heard of.

I work in computational linguistics--NLTK isn't that popular anymore.

[mossy echo]

thanks for responding. I was really thinking of dumping the nltk because it's been 2 years now. glad to hear it's not as popular again.

Also, I think the contigency plan is set. I'm not too sure of other conferences or places I can submit my paper but the program I'm workin with seems to have that covered with the costs too.

And really thanks for the faang comment. that's all i hear on linkedin and it somehow got to my head

[plush summit]

Are you a HBO student studying IT or Business Economics and are you interested in Data Analytics or Business Intelligence?

what should i expect for the interview got it tommorow don t say a lot of technical things in the vacany
so wondering how technical it will be 🙃

[placid geyser]

well what does the job description say. strong bet that will be a big factor on what kind of questions you get

[plush summit]

it is just more braod like tehcnical things like python and said in there but there are looking for it ppl 🙂

[placid geyser]

what kind of position is it? like internship, junior, senior, etc? the more senior the position the much more technically it will likely be

[plush summit]

internship

[placid geyser]

probably wont be super technical but if the main focus of the internship is python then you should be prepared to answer some technical questions and have some knowledge of the language and related topics. Generally speaking an internship is to expand on your knowledge in a field you are actively learning, not as a first step before you learned anything

[blazing parrot]

https://youtu.be/KdMYk6odNfY?si=mWPuNNMOMR9Fs74b

Fullstack to python/java w/ devOps ansible

[wraith harbor]

a lot of new grads have a belief that the job market is worse than ever and its impossible to get hired. my question is, for anyone that got their first job before say 2022, was the market really so much better? some people talk like they were handing out jobs to anyone who had vscode installed.

for context i got hired about 2 years ago and i think the market then was kinda hard but not impossible

[near ocean]

i got my first job in 2021 and yea it was hard
people were getting furloughed, companies froze hiring, etc

[white relic]

Not a CS grad, so my experience isn't directly relevant, but I pay attention.
The market does seem to be worse now than "usual". Thing is "usual" was buoyed for a while by various factors, mostly COVID, but even at its best they weren't handing out jobs. Maybe during the late 90s they were; that was before my time

But a lot of young people seem to have bought in to the idea that it ought to be easy, and are dealing with reality now, and there's a lot of fatalism and disillusionment so... yeah

[modern crater]

hi, guys i wanted to ask some question about the stuffs in this sever where should i ask?

[wraith harbor]

yeah this has kind of been my hunch. I feel bad for people who get stuck in those dooming online communities, it can be a death spiral

[cosmic haven]

who can explain?

[inner wren]

Please react with ✅ to upload your file(s) to our paste bin, which is more accessible for some users.

[mellow flame]

Hi, anyone can work with me? I am looking for a collaborator.

[peak halo]

Can you be more forthcoming? Note that recruiting for jobs and closed-source projects isn't allowed.

[lilac sundial]

But i thought 2021 was the good ol days lol

Certainly compared to 2025

[subtle oak]

cuz of winter tech

[lucid matrix]

I mean the economy is generally worse now than in 2021

Economy rebounded some post Covid and then rip

My gf is in biotech which is (apparently) is usually fairly insulated and funding still comes through but even that industry is feeling it

Not that it’s totally immune but yeah

[hearty totem]

Biotech is insulated from the stocks crashing because biotech companies have been trading below market value for a half a decade now. I.e. the shares can't go lower - you could buy the company, sell its assets and make more money that way. Biotechs are weird funding wise (I've been in biotech since forever). It is a great industry to be in though - you get to learn a lot of non-tech stuff.

[near ocean]

2021 was mid global pandemic

[lucid matrix]

My point was moreso that biotech is also being hit hard rn

[last moat]

guys, i am making money from freelancing but my income is not stable. sometime i make money sometime i dont. if i find job, i'll get a start from fresher role because freelancing XP dosent count in companies. should i go for fresher role with less pay? i make 2 times more money with freelancing but main problem is, my father still working at age of 75 because of my financial unstability. i should give him rest and handle responsibility. would you start from fresh in company or keep working as freelancer?

[buoyant seal]

i finished uni and then made my bet onto working full time

spending my weekends/vacations onto self studies and pet projects. Works great for me.
I am able to pick the right stuff to learn, consuming right books with experience of other devs, investing into tech and skills for doing development easier and in higher quality as first priority

Thanks to self studies i increased my salary 5 times in first 6 month, and then increased 3 times further in next few years.

Never agreeing to work overtime and in my weekends. My time is mine, i will better self study more and get more salary in same time

[last moat]

i noticed i am not growing as freelancer. my skillset is still same after working 4 years. i just finish project within 3 days and do nothing for next 2 weeks. i guess i have to make bold decision and start as fresher in company. at some point in life i might have to join company and i'll need history of full time work on my resume

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Best life changer i learned is unit testing properly. Once u learn to work with it right with visual debugger from within unit tests
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/article_visual_debugger_in_vscode.html
It changed my development entirely, with providing minimal sane quality. I learned as first thing during graduation in the first months

From there i went to learn more stuff, code architecture to make things right and being unit testable in any situation, writing more maintainable code, going to static typing and better languages, learning server infastructure stuff that helps backend devs, stuff like that.
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
Code Complete is nice book a bit about everything in terms of code quality and where to next

Working in tech companies u are unevitably only going to get better with their own fluff of technologies.
Core software engineering skills are a thing to learn on your own, that's not going to be teached by working for companies at all.

[last moat]

yes but i procrastinate. in company, i'll be forced to do work. with 8 hours of daily work, i will get alot of experience. compare to freelancing

[buoyant seal]

Sure, 8 hours of daily work make difference.

Also it makes difference that u are usually challenged to implement everything with some reasonable performance in mind. Than more high load apps have, then more it is usually a challenge to make things right.

Also you are going to encounter your own previous code and could be attempting to write it better for your future you having simpler maintanance. U will care more about code quality stuff potentially.

And you are unevitably going to pick something from company practices and other devs to learn stuff

[pale lily]

Hey guys, I need some help here. I will be looking at getting some certification for a possible entry into cyber cybersecurity space. I was looking at writing the Security+, but I have good knowledge of most of their questions which I can handle with a better practices, But right now I am looking at moving more advance and go for CySA instead as I will be pushed to study more and work more and not waste time to getting it later in the future. So, guys, what's your advice on this one, as I will also need some resources to help me achieve this with intense hard work?

[pine sleet]

IMO the kind of work you do when freelancing is not really the same as the work you do in a job, and you’re usually not doing anything too complex so that might be why you feel like you’re not growing

[surreal sorrel]

is there oportunities to work or freelance as a webscraper using only python with scrapy or bs4

[grave iris]

I disagree, it covers a large number of algorithm topics and lets you practice recognizing problems where they apply

[near ocean]

A lot of algos and data structures you will never use in real life

Youre not using a linked list or a btree or whatever other nonsense leetcode puzzles ask for in real life

inb4 the 2 people in this 400k server who found silly uses for them tell me im wrong

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, a -little- leetcode is helpful at getting students some practice repetitions but the returns are quickly diminishing

[white relic]

there's having enough DSA theory to recognize when you're solving a graph theory problem or whatever, and then there's being good at leetcode puzzles, those are different things

I don't think "you will never write a b-tree in real life" is a good excuse to not learn how data structures work that underpin stuff you do use

[fringe sphinx]

Are we talking about leetcode or DSA tho? I took it as a question about leetcode grinding, but agree on the DSA part: it's assumed knowledge for SWEs

[white relic]

but practicing leetcode is mostly in a different category

[tawny hedge]

Hey! I’m a student building up my Python and ML skills. Just posted my first GitHub project and looking to connect + build cool stuff! Feel free to check out.I’d love any feedback, ideas, or what I should build next. https://github.com/mair-x/Number-Guessing-Game

[lavish lagoon]

I have a question i know two different development like ASP.NET dev and Python so i have create a seperate cv or merge them both into one cv??

[deft herald]

Put them both on the same resume

[grave iris]

I'd say I've used most of them

[grave iris]

uh... linked list and btrees are EVERYWHERE

you also cannot properly use them if you don't know how they work

[molten cliff]

What universities in Canada would you guys recommend for robotics?

[grave iris]

'robotics' isn't a thing

it's like 47 different majors
It varies widely based on what you want to do but good universities in the general area are
UoT, UoW and UoBC

[digital fjord]

Most ... Algorithms? Out of what set?

[near ocean]

Out of whatever you have to use in leetcode

Nobody is asking you to implement linkedlists or btrees and you dont really need to know how they work to use them, thats what abstractions are for

[digital fjord]

I've also never seen a Btree in leetcode

[near ocean]

The reality of the job finding process is that you will never use any of that shit on the job, but since they ask for it in the tech interview you have to practice them on leetcode
Thats why it is valuable, not to "make you a better software dev" or whatever

If everyone stopped asking leetcode stuff tomorrow, leetcode would die tomorrow

[grave iris]

I have to implement these all the time

[near ocean]

.

[grave iris]

heck, I wrote teh splay tree in gcc

[digital fjord]

What field do you operate in? It is unusual to be using linked lists or hand rolling B trees.

[grave iris]

no it isn't... at least it isn't anywhere low level or where performance is important

[digital fjord]

Low level programming is unusual, as is hand rolling performant data structures.

[grave iris]

first job was a bunch of scientific computing, algorithm there included quad trees, bsp trees, barnes hut oct trees lots of graph traversals

second was EDA many algorithms here including lots of high level traversal and graph algorithms

third was internet routers, lots of algorihtms and DS

fourth search engine... lots again

fifth FAANG, tons again

python is being heavily used for ML, numeric computation and scientific fiends... lots of hardcore algo and DS stuff under there

[digital fjord]

That makes more sense, traversals and graphs are prevalent. I was just confused about B trees, that's largely a filesystem and database data structure.

[grave iris]

databases are EVERYWHERE

[digital fjord]

Yes, and you almost never handroll one.

[near ocean]

I think youre missing the point

[grave iris]

mm, sometimes, but even if you use libbtree.. you NEED to know how it works

[near ocean]

The average dev doesnt need to spend any more time on leetcode than is necessary to pass the tech interview

There are better things to do with your time than that

[grave iris]

I would agree, BUT... spending more time and learning this stuff can triple your salary

[near ocean]

That doesnt happen on leetcode

[grave iris]

knowing the things that leet code teaches is the point

[near ocean]

Leetcode doesnt teach anything, its a set of self contained programming puzzles, they dont apply to anywhere IRL

[grave iris]

If you recognize the patern and apply the algorithm, boom, you are saving the company $30M / year

[digital fjord]

If someone finds DSA compelling, I'd expect their education to go more the route of reading papers and competitive programming, more so than doing leetcode.

[grave iris]

this where I disagree... those same patterns show up everywhere

[grave iris]

leetcode is exactly competetive programming, same problem sets

[digital fjord]

Leetcode doesn't do a lot of competition or difficulty from what I've seen.

[grave iris]

IME most competetive program is

1. examine problem
2. recognize pattern which indicates algorithm that trivializes this case
3. implement correctly

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[raw bobcat]

Bruh doesn't it say career discussion? 😭

[radiant vortex]

@raw bobcat not here

yes but that doesn't include recruiting

[near ocean]

It also say not to do that in the rules

[tranquil birch]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[raw bobcat]

Where?

[radiant vortex]

not here

as in, this server

[raw bobcat]

Could u please instruct me where?

[radiant vortex]

To recruit people? Try fivver or Upwork

Or linkedin

[placid geyser]

that company is not going to give you jack of that savings for doing it though.

[grave iris]

It's worked for me

[placid geyser]

lucky

[grave iris]

I mean... they didn't give me a part of the savings
but certain bonuses, raises, promotions.
They sent me to new orleans for 3 days one time

I did get a salesguy a $22M bonus one time... then the company refused to give it to him
he sued and won

[placid geyser]

I mean good for him. and yea certainly raises, bonuses promotions etc. just it in my experience isnt usually tied to just one thing regardless of how much money you made/saved the company
But when you do get rewarded for your efforts that is always a good thing

[molten cliff]

Ohh mb, didn't know that, here's just "Robotics Engineering" and thats pretty much it

Ima look into the specifics

[grave iris]

designing and building robots is one thing
senors and firmware is another
high level software is another
etc

[grave iris]

IME when you can directly show big numbers like this... it's pretty easy

[placid geyser]

I feel it also is directly related to the size of the company and department, etc as it allows what you do to be more noticeable.

[grave iris]

oh absolutely.
at one company $30M would have been rock start
at my current company $30M is 5 minutes

[placid geyser]

yup exactly.

[vapid jay]

wow

[molten cliff]

No yeah I plan on covering software by self-teaching, designing and building robots is what I really want to dive into

[vapid jay]

anyone wanna do this Y combinator hackathon so we can make alot of money and gain alot of Recognition?
Image

[placid geyser]

Not really any information there to answer with. Might be better to post the actual site instead of a screencap

[vapid jay]

ok brolets dothis

we have 2 peopleand yourthe third https://x.com/hahnbeeIee/status/1914513531552317704

Hahnbee Lee (@hahnbeeIee) on X

still dont know what mcp is?

find out by hacking with mintlify, greptile and gumloop @ the YC office

registration link 👇

X · Apr 22, 2025, 2:56 AM

[final spoke]

😭

[ivory bone]

wwaaa

[icy pagoda]

yeah but is there a better way to test reasoning ability (NOT experience/wisdom/programming language niche memory) for programmers within a 30 minute interview window

[near ocean]

You could sit down with your team and create a couple puzzles based on problems you've dealt with at work or bugs you've fixed
And if you dont want to do that you could at least pick leetcodes that have something to do with the job instead of random mediums

[little crane]

Hello friends, who wants to partner with me in my game?

[placid geyser]

You mean like you want someone to test out stuff or like a co developer

[little crane]

Developer

[cosmic nest]

yo im looking for some people to make a game.. im a guy well versed in godot ( i think so )... anyway i suck at art so need artists and sound engineers.. even programmers who know godot can join.. dm me

[crisp stream]

We're not a recruitment board.

[cosmic nest]

oh shi mb gng

[gritty rivet]

Please delete before an admin does

[placid geyser]

Like others have said, this isnt a recruitment board

[little crane]

OK

[vapid jay]

why laugh?

[vast shoal]

That's a crying emoji

Equally incomprehensible

[lavish acorn]

Any beginners here who started learning python?

[peak halo]

Everyone here is or was that

[vapid jay]

Hi

[exotic lance]

I’ve spent the last couple of years working with machine learning and deep learning, mainly focusing on areas like time series analysis, model deployment (including small-scale LLM deployments), and building with tools like PyTorch and CNNs. I also have a strong understanding of the math behind ML and deep learning algorithms.

Lately though, I’ve been feeling a bit stuck. I mostly work with just one programming language, and it’s starting to feel like a limitation. I’m considering learning Rust for low-level deep learning library development, and maybe picking up Go as well.

Another thing on my mind is that I don’t have a strong background in dsa. I’m wondering is that a big problem for someone aiming to stay technical and grow in this field?

I’m also trying to figure out whether I should focus on something like MLOps, since it’s clearly in high demand, or if it would make more sense to specialize in a more niche area for better long-term job security

[tough fable]

me

[exotic lance]

I am considering doing some projects for my resume that display my intuitive understanding of deep learning concepts. Maybe a BPE from scratch or a autograd. Would that be worth it ?

[faint depot]

Have you tried using SQL with Python? I heard from others that SQL is very useful. I know someone who advised that its powerful combo to learn. I'm trying to atm, with my projects, to apply SQL as it so much better to store and retrieve data in an SQL database rather than having to use and manipulate dataframes

[proper plaza]

I'm a cs major in college almost done with my freshman year but I haven't done any project or any career readiness things like that yet
am I cooked?

[faint depot]

I wasted 5 fucking years redoing a year in sixth form and going to 3 different unis. Youre not 'cooked' (I'm almost slightly burnt). Whilst youre on break from uni/college, do some personal projects in the mean time. Make a game, get into embedded development etc. Youve got another 2-3 years. Dont waste it like I've done the past 5 years. Do as much as you can and youll be fine

[vast shoal]

It's fine, but stop wasting time.

[crisp stream]

1. Please refrain from using all caps, as it's super distracting and annoying
2. Post your questions in #1035199133436354600, not this channel

I've deleted your messages to keep them from cluttering this channel

[pulsar marlin]

Do you expect teams to constantly create puzzles for interviews? Eventually these problems will get shared, and then it's pointless. Leetcode, for better or for worse, is the best way to interview candidates imo. It keeps interviews short and fair to everybody

[strange ice]

What are some projects you've made?

[vapid jay]

how to be sooo good that employers seek you out and REALLY WANT YOU

[near ocean]

Yes i do, its part of the job description

Leetcode isnt the best way, its the cheapest way

[pulsar marlin]

I honestly don't think that's a realistic option. First, it's going to take a lot of time to create those problems and it's not going to be cheap. Second, no puzzle will demonstrate whether you're going to be a productive member on a team. Leetcode problems aren't perfect but they're a necessary evil that will demonstrate your problem-solving ability and and your mindset, which is good enough for most teams imo.

[gusty dome]

Algum BR?

[near ocean]

You're joking right?
Its not realistic to put together a couple of problems based on actual bugs/features devs worked on?
No puzzle ever fully demonstrates ones potential so you instantly give up and go the cheapest route?

It's part of a senior's job description to interview and evaluate candidates for their team, what did they do before leetcode? Hire people based on handshake?

[pulsar marlin]

Why are you changing your stance? You responded saying you expected teams to be constantly creating puzzles and now you're advocating for the creation of only a handful. Either way both options suck. One will lead to questions getting leaked, resulting in pointless interviews and the other will cost too much and ultimately won't provide much more insight than LeetCode will. At the end of the day, if your personalized questions can't demonstrate anything more meaningful than LeetCode style questions, everyone will go down the route of using LeetCode because its cheaper.

[near ocean]

When did I say "constantly"?

[near ocean]

is that your objection? how often do you think you need to sit down to keep your interview materials up to date?

once a quarter? once a year maybe?

do we not want to improve the interview process for software jobs? why are you so against this

[pulsar marlin]

Idk why you're cherry picking and just purposefully ignoring everything I just said.

[near ocean]

you literally just ignored everything I said and got stuck on the constantly part

[pulsar marlin]

Read the last sentence here.

[near ocean]

the point of the in-house questions is they are closer to what the real job would be
it's really not that difficult a concept, if theyre leaked so what?

[pulsar marlin]

The interview is pointless then. It becomes a question of who can memorize it and spit out the solution the fastest.

[near ocean]

are we not already doing that?

abandon the tech interview altogether

[pulsar marlin]

Oh brother

There are 3525 leetcode problems. If you think all of those are going to be memorized I don't know what to tell you

[open ivy]

The interview is mainly about social skills.

I have spent well over a decade programming.

I also have spent well over a decade being socially rejected for thinking "differently".

It's easier to get programming skills up to an acceptable level than social skills.

Leetcode won't hurt, but don't throw more time into it than what is fun to do.

[near ocean]

it doesnt matter how many there are, people sit down and learn a couple patterns and hope the interview is about them
this knowledge doesnt stick, which is why when people are starting to look for jobs again they go back to leetcode to brush up

this shit doesnt crop up on the job, why not spend some time to ask the candidate stuff that is relevant

[pulsar marlin]

Uh yes it does matter how many there are. If people learn a couple of patterns and those just end up popping up on the interview that's just luck, can't do much there. Also, to respond to your last sentence, you are asking the candidate relevant stuff. Being able to demonstrate problem solving abilities in a software engineering position is very important.

[near ocean]

Yea im applying to work on real products and not be a professional puzzle solver thanks

[pulsar marlin]

Do you seriously think having good problem solving abilities isn't important when building real products?

[near ocean]

Leetcode isnt a measure of problem solving ability

[pulsar marlin]

It doesn't seem like we're going to reach a middle ground, so I'm just going to leave this conversation here. It's been nice talking with you.

[near ocean]

Im curious to know why youre defending leetcode. Whats your experience? Do you work as a dev and what was your interview process like?

I've been a dev for 4 years now, leetcode is absolutely nothing like the job
The most important problem solving skill you actually need is how to get people to do things for you, not whether you know how to backtrack

Would be nice if the interview reflected that 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we need to rely less on technical interviews and more on behavioural, i dont know

[wraith harbor]

I've been interviewing recently and they have all been asking problems related to the company's product and not generic leet code. Could just be me though

[near ocean]

Is that a better experience or would you prefer random leetcode?

There is a silver lining with leetcode in that its extremely gameable

[wraith harbor]

I feel like it's better this way because I just dislike studying leet code. But I haven't got any good offers so idk

[storm nymph]

Can you just get a job knowing only python

[split crater]

Hi! I have 0% experience in this area and I'm looking for someone who can make a simple mod based on color detection, where you automatically catch a fish when your white bar passes the blue bar. Does anyone know someone who would be willing to make this for me?

[placid geyser]

I would try fivr or something, this is not a recruitment board

[placid geyser]

well in the sense that your only technical skill is python or like that is absolutely all you know? cause communication skills are a major factor in a job and dev

[buoyant seal]

Yes and No.
Yes, Python can be your only general purpose language programming language to find the job
No as in, u need to know as extra stuff specific to some Job role. (though if u are very promising graduate from uni, people could take u to learn job role fluff at work)

• For example working with web apis, relational databases for Backend dev role
  • (Possible pokemon evolutions into DevOps engineer or Data Engineer or Full stack dev)
• for example knowing math/math statistics/data science related tech stack for Data science Job role
  • (Possible pokemon evolutions into ML person and Data engineer)
• for example working Linux servers/Infra tools for System Administrator job
  • (with possible pokemon evolution into DevOps engineer/MLOps/SRE and DevSecOps roles)
    And every path can lead to Manager related paths after some amount of work
• Or u can be even Project manager as first starting point
  • I am not sure if this role has evolutional development further
• Or u can go QA
  • manual QA has chance for evolution into automated QA
    • in its turn automated QA has some chance of evolution to become fully fledged dev from it (for example Backend dev)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuYeHPFR3f0

[grave iris]

I have decades of professional experience, most of my interviews have had leetcode type problems

[icy pagoda]

that works for candidates with experience; however, how many puzzles from your job can you think of which candidates might actually struggle to answer? the point of the puzzles is null if most candidates just answer them correctly or produce a very viable way to solve it

leetcode medium wasn't a standard which came outta nothing, it was set by people as the crossing bar which elimitated a significant subset of candidates hopefully

if most start to answer them by simply spamming lc patterns, the bar moves to hard. i do feel getting questions from global computing olympiads instead of leetcode will throw them off their memorization streak atleast

[balmy spade]

I find it far more valuable and reliable to simply interview the candidate. Ask them about themselves. Talk through problems they've face. Present some problems we're facing on the team and have a conversation about it.

I don't need someone who can specifically solve leetcode problems. I need someone who can think, communicate, and learn.

[icy pagoda]

what if you're interviewing someone with like 3 projects total and no experience yet - most of which they forgot the problems about or they simply faced problems and solved them instantly w/o bothering to remember them since they were not significant enough. that will count as a negative in the first part. the second part; the problems - how many do you have? and they better be good enough to actually help you make a descision and shouldn't be smth most just solve to reasonable extents - some produce marginally better solutions. the marginally better ones could also be pure luck during that particular interview and not general.

do remember that those problems are being shared to everyone outside the interview

so if there's 100 candidates, you'll need > 70 variations of "problem"

[balmy spade]

I've never made a choice of hiring someone based on their projects. I like seeing projects. They are neat to talk about. The lack of experience might not be an issue either. If they can reason, communicate, and learn then they are on the table as a candidate for me.

As for the problems, that's not really an issue. Have you worked in an org? I could give out a problem a day and not run out of new ones all year. Again, though, the problem isn't the important part. It's how the person I'm interviewing reacts and responds to the problem.

I want to see how someone I interview reacts and responds to the unknown. Leetcode isn't that.

the marginally better ones could also be pure luck during that particular interview and not general.

Also, for the record, I'm convince 90% of my success in the industry has been pure luck. So, this isn't something I sweat too much.

[icy pagoda]

i mean, if you do have a huge pool of problems like that, all of them which could actually evaluate a candidate, you can simply use those then.

these should not problems where you solved a structuring issue of the codebase/depend on the candidate's wisdom/experience w/ libs etc since you're trying to test their intelligence/potential to solve problems and not their experience (the wisdom thing also builds with experience)

once this standard becomes common, you'll be facing leetcode 2.0 which would ideally be better.

I am all for "nice discussion" interviews, what i've usually seen is there a lot of candidates who simply answer everything to a reasonable extent so we had to resort to concrete problems anyways. In my case it wasn't exactly a full programming position, we had to resort to mathematical problems instead of lc but it's a similar setup imo.

[balmy spade]

You are correct. My questions during an interview are to explore who the person is, how do they react, how do they respond, what level do they communicate, and can they learn in the short time period of the interview.

I wouldn't call them "nice discussion" interviews myself. While I do keep a smile and am known for being "nice"; the interview process is stressful. I use that to my advantage.

[icy pagoda]

can they learn in the short time period of the interview.
okay this is very epic

[balmy spade]

I have colleagues who will drill interviewees on process and specifics. They often worry that they need to validate that the candidate knows how to program, in a specific way, with a specific language.

I'm more lax in my interview process there. I don't care what language you know. Talking through problems you've faced and unknown problems I throw at you will tell me if you can learn. Most importantly, it will tell me if you want to learn.

Another way to summarize it: When presented with an unknown, does the candidate lean back, or lean in?

[icy pagoda]

so test how quickly they can learn during the interview and how much fun? they had doing it. that's a p good metric imo

...that's prolly gonna take a bit more effort but ngl, i'm p sure the interviewer will have fun w/ it too

[balmy spade]

It's far more effort. It requires learning how to interview. I can see why leetcode is so popular. It's not that it's good. It's easy. For the interviewer

[icy pagoda]

yeah

[icy pagoda]

also tbh I'm not exactly a good teacher irl, p sure it's similar for more peeps. testing if a candidate can learn while subjecting them to trash teachers is kinda unfair lol

[balmy spade]

Now, for all that yap, I can admit that I've only participated in about four dozen interviews in the last nine years. I'm not in a role that gives me the opportunity often.

[icy pagoda]

i'm usually fine on text because there's a history of previous messages i can see and use them for context

[shut bane]

I am a Full-Stack developer Skilled in React, Next.js, Node.js, and Fastapi. I am looking for a job and excited to contribute, learn, and grow in a dynamic team.
Github:- https://github.com/MrBlackGhostt
LinkedIn:- https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrhemantkumarr/
Portfolio: https://hemant-code1.vercel.app/

[balmy spade]

We aren't a job forum though.

[icy pagoda]

that's a lot, i did in like 1 💀 usually been on the other end

[balmy spade]

2018-2021 was a wild time for interviews.

As for the other side... oh hell. I can't even guess how many interviews I've been the candidate in. It reached the point that I'm frequently the calmest one in the room.

We went on a 30 minute tangent about D&D at my last interview that got me into technology because three of the people at the table looked so nervous. Found a topic they opened to to and just ran with it. One of the best groups of people I've worked with since.

[icy pagoda]

that is sooo peak. 3 of the people were interviewers? 💀

[balmy spade]

The recruiter did me dirty for that one. Tells me business attire for the interview. The team interviewing me are in jeans and band-shirts. I'm in a three-piece suit.
((the jacket and tie came off before I sat down))

[balmy spade]

There were 5 interviewers in total.

[icy pagoda]

LMAO that's very common here

no interviewer cares abt them but the uni instructs people to go in business attires

[balmy spade]

To be fair, I'd rather need to dress down than wish I had dressed up.

[icy pagoda]

yeah it's safer ig (besides the fact that you awkwardly stand out)

[balmy spade]

Something you learn in sales: Always dress down to meet the audience. You can't do that if you aren't already more dressed up than they are. It's super casual to just "Hey, it's really hot in here. Mind if I lose the jacket and tie for this?"

[icy pagoda]

i'd love to find someone who would talk about D&D in an interview. being that cool here is sorta not "formal" tho so it's prolly never going to happen

[balmy spade]

Formal is rough. I stand out in formal situations like a sore thumb. I laugh too loud, smile too quick, and joke when the pressure feels too much. Side-effects of an introvert playing an extrovert.

[icy pagoda]

in an air-conditioned room when they made u wait outside for 20 mins in the heat

[wraith harbor]

a hard part for me in interviews is trying to figure out what tone/formality to go with

like one company the interviewer is in a t shirt and keeps saying "bro", and the next the guy is business casual and being really formal

[balmy spade]

That can be tricky, especially if the interviewer doesn't set the stage like they should. The first person to ask a question is usually who I lock onto for who is running the show. I'll match their mannerisms even if I clash with others.

[icy pagoda]

i usually become expressionless i think when the pressure's too much, not by choice. i would smile/laugh only if the interviewers were that cool in the interview

[peak halo]

the interviewers are human, and one of the things they're trying to figure out is if you'd vibe with the company.

[balmy spade]

Another tell for who to copy would be the person everyone else looks at when they enter (or sit). You're trying to find the show runner. Match them, and you shouldn't leave any poor impressions.

[balmy spade]

hehe. I've interviewed folks like that. Clams. Absolutely close up in the pressure. Usually have to spend a lot of time trying to open them up a little to get a peek at who we're considering.

[wraith harbor]

yeah im trying to work on that, i think its my main impediment right now looking for new roles. what does it mean to not vibe with a company? besides people who are extremely toxic i think i can vibe with basically anyone, but maybe i come across as too dry sometimes? i dont know

[peak halo]

"to vibe with a company" isn't an idiom. I just mean like, if they like your personality and can get along with you as a person.

[icy pagoda]

it's not like i want to clam up either, it's just a reaction to "i dunno/have nothing to say abt this" or the other option is going on a full rant on why i do not think that question was useful - which you usually don't tell an interviewer on their face

i know the ideal method would be tell them calmly if it's the second case but rant is the only thing which would come up under pressure lol (and they do get the rant if the interviewer is chill enough; p much how i passed my interviews normally)

[wraith harbor]

makes sense. i just have to be less nervous i think

[wraith harbor]

what kind of questions do you not have something to say about?

[balmy spade]

Learning to be just a little more comfortable will go a long way. The interviewer needs to gauge if you're a good fit for the team. Also, you need to do the same. You'll be, hopefully, working with them 8 hour a day all week long.

[icy pagoda]

usually pure knowledge ones - uhh "what would be the PCA of a dataset if you reduced it to 1 dimension" or smth maybe?

it's a useful concept; i wouldn't be ranting about it. it's just "oh idk this, i don't think bro expects a full algorithm (which he does specify)"

[balmy spade]

Like closed questions? Yeah, that can be tough to keep talking about. It has an answer... done.

[wanton birch]

If you were a mouse stuck inside a blender, what memory offset is typical for GPIO of Broadcom 4865 chip?

[wraith harbor]

i would simply figure it out from first principles

[urban veldt]

Hi,
I am currently waiting for a response from my university about my application. They are going through some legal issues currently, meaning there is no ETA on when they will publish the results. It could come tomorrow or in a few months. The legal system here is very slow. Because of this uncertainty, I don't know what to do with the time I currently have available.
I assume the obvious answer would be to study, but I don't know what I should be looking for in particular. I have made a few small projects, but they aren't anything remarkable. My mood and energy has also gone down with this situation, preventing me from taking on larger and more ambitious projects.

What should I do? I live in Brazil, if that matters.

[plain wing]

hey guys i need some advice
i hv some basic python knowledge but how should i learn full stack before i dive down into aiml?

[plush summit]

Try to make a django backend try any frontend framework you like (vue react angular etc) btw this isn t really career related tho

[summer roost]

Probably not? If you're not trying to get a job in web development, you probably don't ever need to learn web development

[rustic shell]

i dont want to get into web development i want to becoma a data analyst or fo in the field of fintech, ai ml what should i do i know some basic python and currently learning flask and web scraping etc

[plain wing]

Maybe idk bcz i wanted to learn full stack so I can make my own platform with the help of full stack and learn aiml as the platform needs aiml but rn i don't hv solid basics

[pallid aurora]

anyone working in netherlands or denmark or sweeden ? (in any IT domain)

[vast shoal]

I work in Sweden as a software engineer

[pallid aurora]

is the cost of living high ?

[vast shoal]

Yes, I think so, relatively speaking

[pallid aurora]

i'm looking forward to moving to nordic countries to work as a network engineer , devops or in a datacenter enviroment

the issue is idk if a junior can survive there

[vast shoal]

I mean, if you get a job here and find a place to live, the salary is usually sufficient. But finding a place to live is hard.

And getting a job as an immigrant and a junior might also not be trivial.

[pallid aurora]

oh wow so even if u slap them with a stack of cash its hard AHAH

[vast shoal]

You'll need a very big stack if you want to find something fast.

[pallid aurora]

oh well now it explains everything

ill try working in Romania until i get around 3y-5y of experience then move maybe. should help with salary

[near ocean]

Why would you want leetcode mediums or hards for most software jobs? That just sounds like the interviewer has no idea how to interview

[cosmic haven]

i'm looking for japan man that help me.
give me DM

[bronze chasm]

Hi in need hlp
Do you guys know where to find a good disscoord server.. Pls it's urgent..
I need for another subjects.
Do we have any websites to find them where we search as per our need or do we crash randomly at any..
Please proceed. ++?

[white relic]

It sounds like you're assuming the answer will be favorable when it comes? I'm not sure what kind of answer you are waiting for, but if it might mean you can't continue your education there, you should perhaps consider applying to other universities, so you have options

[white relic]

Please don't post just to ask for DMs. This channel is for career discussion. If you have questions or want advice about your career or future career, feel free to post about your situation. This isn't a channel to make random connections or do business.

[white relic]

This channel is for career discussion. If you have a question that isn't related to that or the main topic of the server, Python, you can try in an off-topic channel.

[bronze chasm]

Yep.
What is the career If I learned.. Languages related to economìcs..Imean what skills I will inbuilt or need.

[balmy mural]

I've been looking at moving to the Netherlands myself. Can safely say that depending on work location, you'll struggle with housing. And if you require a visa sponsorship, you're highly unlikely to find a job willing to sponsor the price required for a junior

[pallid aurora]

Well i'm still from europe fortunately so the visa wont be an issue i think . Housing ive heard is a problem indeed

[balmy mural]

Housing is still available, but unless you get a remote job or don't mind 1+ hour of commuting time, housing in Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Utrecht (which is where most tech jobs will be located) will be hard to find and extremely expensive

[vast shoal]

You will probably experience something similar here

[pallid aurora]

Rotterdam is where im looking on going aswell

[urban veldt]

Yes, I expect a favorable response

[trim crypt]

About to go into a business with multiple business partners. They were already a team of 5 before I joined. They needed my technical skillset and their business proposition was attractive for me to join them. A month in, already I can sense some laziness in the team. This is like those group assignments where we have someone who'd rather not do the work, and just get credit/score from a "team effort". Considering I'm an outsider, how do I approach this professionally and gently to let the team know that one or two members in our team is underperforming (like literally no contribution) without sounding like an a**hole?

[final ravine]

What's the financial situation

[trim crypt]

Waiting for seed funding at the moment. But at least one and myself have at least put in $50 to cover company registration, and a quick proof of concept of the solution. So -$50 in company finance for now.

[final ravine]

And everyone has equal shares?

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[trim crypt]

That was 1 major red flag. There's no partnership agreement. Their excuse is everyone is busy and couldn't finish drafting up what our profit split is.

[final ravine]

And what parts did you contribute?

[raw panther]

I am a fullstack developer

[trim crypt]

Only the technical proof of concept. Its a working proof of concept

[final ravine]

So you did 100% of the work

[trim crypt]

Technically, yes. But no marketing/sales pitch yet. That is handled by one other, Chief Marketing Officer. I've been titled Chief Technical Officer.

I wouldn't build it if they didn't have won the seed funding and found a customer who's waiting on the working solution. In a way, I'm piggybacking on their lead, as much as mine

The lazy persons in the team are the CMO and CFO. The marketing person isn't drumming up followers, so we can find other customers, incase the sponsored customer doesn't come through. The finance person does 0 accounting work. Like he's not recording our expenses or calculate marketing budget/cash flow projections/etc to show to the seed funders how much we need to run this.

[vast shoal]

Maybe draft up a founder vesting clause for a multi-year period with a bad leaver clause that ensures they get nothing if they're let go due to underperformance in that period.

[trim crypt]

Not a bad idea

[glossy oriole]

Can anyone suggest a source for C++ and Data science, could be a YouTube playlist or courses from class central or Coursera Etc

[peak halo]

That's not really in scope for this server, but for your awareness, C++ is only used in niche circumstances in data science

[analog glade]

Hello everyone! I'm currently working on A+ cert; Trying to prepare for core 1 exam and am using a site called exam compass and took the Exam Acronyms Quiz that consists of 250 questions as a practivce test. Here is my score:

[open ivy]

Anyone else have over a decade of programming experience (including personal projects) yet has spend at least 12 of the last 24 months unemployed?

You are not alone. Your personal work is valuable! Please don't give up!

[pine sleet]

kinda cooked ngl

[woven kernel]

yes

[pine sleet]

always just figured senior devs did whatever they wanted cause they were good

[near ocean]

programming experience isnt really that relevant though
how much experience do you have getting paid to do programming

[open ivy]

Do you only count industry? Than only one year at a startup.

[near ocean]

I dont think hobby programming counts, research does but not sure how much
I've seen atrocious, horrible scientist code

[pine sleet]

oh

yeah nvm then

basically an intern

[open ivy]

Hobby programming turned me from someone who wrote horrible spaghetti to someone who can actually document and write meaningful code and push through on more difficult and complex projects.

It made me a much better programmer.

[tight tree]

Hello Everyone ! I'd like to find a new python job . Please help me about it .Python/Django Rest

[peak halo]

You can't ask for jobs here. (mods: I'm not handling it outside of this.)

[tight tree]

@peak halo ok , sorry , where have a place for it ?

[vast shoal]

It's not permitted on this server

[tight tree]

Ok

[trail root]

Τhe django discord also does not allow personal "i am for hire" advertisement but they have a job board

[tight tree]

Thanks the information @trail root

[pine sleet]

linkedin

[tight tree]

@pine sleet ok ,thanks , but in linkedin the responses are too slow

[wraith harbor]

It's not fast or easy anywhere, it's a highly desirable job with a lot of competition

[analog glade]

New score. No cheating, only work

[near ocean]

Is this an advert, cause it reads like one

You cant recruit here and this reads like youre trying to recruit

At best this is off topic for the channel, you could try one of the offtopic channels #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[eternal mist]

Anyone know if springboot is a good starting framework to do backend development. I just completed my intro to CS class that just taught me the basics of Java and testing. I’m not really sure what to do this summer other than to start leetcoding

[peak halo]

is springboot a java-specific thing?

[eternal mist]

Yeah it’s a framework built on JAVA. I’m pretty sure it also supports kotlin

Mostly used for web apps and micro services

[peak halo]

I only use Python. But I've heard of frameworks in other languages. But I've never heard of Springboot.

[eternal mist]

It’s not really used for small applications anyways so no one really needs to learn it unless they want to. In my case I already know Java and backend development right now seems to be something I want to work on

[buoyant seal]

Spring Boot is often used in companies, but as far as i heard it inflicts mental scars much deeper than Django does. You are supposed to be able to get used to it, as Stockholm Syndrom can make u liking your captors after certain amount of years.
Java devs are very happy to see Quarkus as alternative and fresh air,, often praising it for very positive experience and looking like even daring to refactor old Spring Boots to Quarkus, if only they can leave Spring behind.
https://quarkus.io/
https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/1cbzhu3/am_i_crazy_or_java_spring_is_the_worst_framework/
https://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/132w9rn/would_you_choose_spring_or_quarkus_for_a_new_set/
I plan my own Java adventures too 😄 So i built plans towards Quarkus only for web part after noticing how much Spring Boot is criticized.

[buoyant seal]

. I’m not really sure what to do this summer
there is an option to try game modding for Starsector or Minecraft 😏 both those games have modding in Java
https://fractalsoftworks.com/
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14905.0
Could be nice having full project development with unit testing, user feedbacks, improvements for features, good documentation, improvements to solve user feature requests. That will make quite impressive project potentially for portfolio. Making stuff that people actually use (meets people demands) and needs leaves better impression than project that solves business problems in a vacuum.

[eternal mist]

Yeah my parents own this non emergency medical transportation company, so I’m working on a SaaS-style dispatch management system designed for small transportation businesses, specifically Non-Emergency Medical Transportation (NEMT) companies. The goal is to automate backend processes like:
• Driver & vehicle management
• Scheduling and dispatching rides
• Automated notifications (like appointment reminders via email/SMS using AWS)
• Exposing everything through clean RESTful APIs
• Deploying the system on AWS EC2/RDS with a proper CI/CD pipeline (Jenkins)

I chose Spring Boot because I want to structure this like a real-world backend system—using enterprise patterns, dependency injection, and integrating cloud services. It’s less about quick development and more about learning how scalable backend architecture works in environments similar to what companies use.

Once I have a solid prototype, I’m thinking about exploring how I could layer in AI/ML for optimizing dispatch decisions, maybe using Google Maps API for route and traffic data—kind of like how Uber evolved their system.

I get that Spring Boot can feel heavy for certain projects, but I see it as a chance to build backend + cloud engineering skills that are directly applicable in the industry. Quarkus sounds interesting too, but I figured mastering Spring Boot first gives me a stronger foundation.

What kind of projects are you planning for your Java adventures? Always down to hear other perspectives!

I know like literally 0 things rn but I can power through through tutorials and documentation. Might as well do some leetcode stuff on the side.

[buoyant seal]

What kind of projects are you planning for your Java adventures? Always down to hear other perspectives!
as mentioned my plans to go game modding in order to get used to Java. I wish to climb through its best practices fast and become comfortable with it fast in order to solve any type of problems in it. Going game modding should help me face considerable amount of code effort for acomplishing of the set task

I am already Python and Golang web development experienced, so i don't see a big issue not to build big web projects in Java to accomodate that for now.

for web projects i am hoping that as i develop stuff for game modding, i will have ideas for web integrations and just use the web parts for the same game communities instead of making personal stuff. Like making some kind of api integration for minecraft, and exposing its metrics to show in Grafana for example? Or configuring some API for remote control.
As last resort, i always wished to have personal web site for book reading tracking, movie/tv series tracking, solving finances tracking and tax payment tracking, and basically being kanban of my person stuff to do. Potentially I consider java web being used for that.

[buoyant seal]

•    Deploying the system on AWS EC2/RDS with a proper CI/CD pipeline (Jenkins)

Jenkings is very outdated tool and not exactly recommened in DevOps engineering community (i am one of them). Recommending to replace it with Github Actions

[eternal mist]

Thanks for the suggestions! I actually was considering Jenkins initially just to get familiar with traditional CI/CD pipelines since it’s still used in some enterprise setups, but I definitely see the value in using GitHub Actions—especially for a modern, cloud-native workflow. I’ll pivot to that since it integrates smoothly with my GitHub repo and keeps things lightweight.

As for AWS ECS, that’s a great point! For now, I’m planning to keep things simple with EC2/RDS to really understand the fundamentals of server management and deployment. Once I have my core system running, I’ll definitely look into containerizing the app with Docker and exploring ECS or even Fargate for more automated scaling and orchestration.

[buoyant seal]

As for AWS ECS, that’s a great point! For now, I’m planning to keep things simple with EC2/RDS to really understand the fundamentals of server management and deployment. Once I have my core system running, I’ll definitely look into containerizing the app with Docker and exploring ECS or even Fargate for more automated scaling and orchestration.
yeah for reasons of learning u better get used to almost vanilla raw linux machine deployment first, u should go EC2 first. for those reasons erased ECS comment.

Also ECS can be run much cheaper if using EC2 way to run it on Spot instances ( requires apps written in stateless way for that, all state should be external like exeternal dbs, and static assets to upload to s3 buckets)
I had also some hesitation because ECS preferably asssumes learning Infrastructure as a code approach with Terraform or Pulumi, so for those reasons removed too

AWS is very bloated complex provider, to be fair not a great choice at all for web dev beginner

[buoyant seal]

for web dev beginners it is better to go for example Linode, or Digital Ocean, or heck even OVH, smth considerably more simple.
I personally just use Hetzner for pet projects. it does not have any managed dbs, but it is super cheap. Since u do it for more work like stuff, better go OVH or Linode, as they at least do have managed dbs
I use intensively AWS for work, and i think without Terraform or any other Infrastructure as a code tool it is almost not usable provider, too much complex and bloated in its configurations

[eternal mist]

For me though, I’m intentionally using AWS because I want to get hands-on experience with cloud services that are heavily used in the industry. Even if it’s overkill for a small project, I see it as a chance to get familiar with core services like EC2, RDS, S3, and how cloud infrastructure works at a fundamental level.

I’m not diving into Terraform or full Infrastructure as Code yet, but I do want to grasp the basics of cloud deployment before I explore more advanced orchestration tools or cost-optimization strategies like Spot instances.

Definitely appreciate the insight though—it’s helpful to hear how DevOps pros actually approach this stuff in real-world environments

Haha yeah, the job market’s so rough right now that I feel like I have to master AWS, spin up EC2 servers manually, containerize everything, learn CI/CD, and basically become a part-time DevOps engineer—just to get a backend or devops intern role!

[buoyant seal]

if u want to concentrate onto more Backend level of expectations, limit your deployment expectations to just EC2 with high usage of Docker compose.
Potentially having docker daemon connected over DOCKER_HOST=ssh://root@server_name:22
That will be pretty much maximum level of expectations from backend dev in terms of deployment. Simple enough to be acomplishable by backend dev.
Being comfortable with docker-compose well is very useful for backend dev as it is often needed in dev env

[eternal mist]

I’m definitely aiming to stay within the backend lane, so focusing on EC2 with solid Docker and docker-compose skills sounds like the sweet spot—enough to deploy and manage services without going full DevOps.

I’ll probably set up my Spring Boot app with docker-compose for local dev and then handle simple EC2 deployments. Once that’s smooth, I’ll call it “backend complete” before AWS pulls me into learning half of their 200 services.

[buoyant seal]

when u use docker-compose in local dev, make sure that whatever way u configure working with it, will still have full working IDE with intellisence and visual debug for comfortable working. That is important for comfortable development 😏
Make sure easy still turnable visual debug for unit tests. Usually u go two possible approaches

1. Just using docker features for port forwarding dbs to your current host machines and use like this for local dev
2. U figure out how your IDE can connect to container and work from within in full capacity (vscode at least supports this)
3. possible some option in between, running web server for checking in docker, but developing in unit tests locally with visual debug outside of containers. Could be still nice having ability to run debug onto web server itself to though just in case, at least in some way

[eternal mist]

Yeah, that makes total sense—I definitely don’t want to lose IntelliSense or easy debugging just to force everything into Docker. I’ll stick to using docker-compose mainly for handling dependencies like PostgreSQL during local dev, and keep my Spring Boot app running on my host machine so I can fully use IntelliJ’s debugger and visual tools, especially for unit tests.

This is actually my first fully fleshed-out project right after learning Java, so I know I’m diving into a lot—Spring Boot, Docker, AWS, CI/CD—it’s a steep learning curve for sure. But that’s kind of the goal with this project: to push myself beyond just basic coding and really get exposure to how backend systems are built and deployed in the real world. I’m taking it step by step, focusing on getting a solid dev workflow first before overcomplicating things. Appreciate all the advice—it’s helping me avoid rookie mistakes early on!

[tough fable]

yo anyone know how to exit this function and go back to the original loop

bank function and go back to the while loop

[open ivy]

Obsessing about potential future poverty does not help me get a job.

Instead, networking and portfoleo projects are much, much, more fun.

[rotund scarab]

Hi @tough fable , you are already doing it right, when the user writes Q, bank returns assets, then you are already in the loop, when you do break you stop the loop but you can write continue to keep on going with the loop

[pearl mango]

should i stay at my job if it has a lot of benefits, but the job pace is slow and there's not much to do, I don't feel I can learn many new things if I stay here. But I can't find a better place

[rose hornet]

hello guys, I'm new here and I'm a college student I study web development and I have a lot of problems in python and I struggle so much to find a clear information could any one help me to master python

[white relic]

if you can't find anything better, then unless you are independently wealthy, the answer is yes, you should stay at your job.
Until you have a live offer from another company, it's too early to make the decision to stay or not. Most people can't financially just decide to leave their job because it's slow.

[trail root]

You can make up a ton of stuff to do when the pace is slow

just refactor everything until someone tells you to stop 😛

[white relic]

Note that, since you won't likely have an offer unless you're actively looking, this implies that you should be looking for a new job before you know whether you will leave or not.

[pearl mango]

Well, my company has a track record of 10 years without layoffs, but you never know if you try too hard, you're gonna kick yourself out

And maybe this kind of thinking (PTSD) has weakened my desire to actively looking out at the job market before I resumed it recently

[trail root]

wym PTSD?

[white relic]

I've heard (and made) a lot of excuses for not improving oneself, but "I'm afraid I'll get laid off for trying too hard" is a new one

[trail root]

I've heard from experienced seniors in behemoth corps that trying too hard will make you a target mule for everyone's extra work until you eventually give up and leave, but is that what you meant @pearl mango ?

[pearl mango]

yeah it's kinda that. from my experience with my company, they likely won't do that since they have really good support for staff. maybe because i spent too much hours on Reddit that now I start overthinking things, idk

Maybe it's because my personality. There's not much small talk between me and my team members since I'm an introvert but I do respond to them if they ask me something, I just don't initiate conversations. And when they ask me why, I just answered: "I don't know what I should say", so pretty much most of the times they'll leave me alone and I'm silent.

[trail root]

Ask if they need help with anything or ask for help more often and everything else will follow, in my limited experience

If your only complaint is that work is slow and there's not much to do then just wait and work will appear

If your desk is close to your coworkers then you can ask if they want company on their lunchbreak or something

Maybe if it's a smoker meet them on their smokebreak

Tell them what you did over the weekend, people will generally welcome a conversation with a person after a couple of hours staring at a screen

Doesn't really matter what you say

[pearl mango]

That's what I did, but I still feel there's a boundary

[trail root]

How long have you been working there if I may ask

And were you an addition to an already existing team

[pearl mango]

Approaching the 2-year mark

[pearl mango]

yeah, an already existing team, but it's new i think. i think it's around 3-4 years old now?

[trail root]

Has your team attended any bonding events while you were there? A company party or a getaway?

You should use the time you have outside the office with your coworkers to talk about these feelings

2 years and feeling left out is too long in my opinion

Maybe talk with the boss if they are not an asshole

[pearl mango]

Well, yes, every two months. Company party and trip are organized yearly

[trail root]

Next time please tell your closest coworker about this

[pearl mango]

They're not. I'm just "asshole"-tifying them in my mind

[pearl mango]

I don't have any particularly close coworker but all of the team members are open and friendly.

[trail root]

So why are you thinking of resigning then if they are so friendly

I don't mean to be rude just want to see how you can improve the situation

[pearl mango]

maybe I should order a therapy session

seems like most of my problem comes from overthinking

[trail root]

Overthinking is part of the job, sadly

Helps us find those pesky edge cases

[pearl mango]

Yeah, but not much for my job since things are pretty chill here. Downside is that it turns me into a "settle" mindset (source: Reddit). Like less prone to adapt in new work environments

[trail root]

I never even had adapting to new work environments in my checklist of skills I need to engineer software, but it makes sense, people in tech use job hopping to get raises and advance their role but tbh I don't know any of them

all of the SWEs in my life found a job and settled down in their 30s

It's our choice whether we want to settle is what I'm saying I guess

It's not always the wrong choice

[pearl mango]

Settling is enabling yourself to have the risk of being laid off

Sometimes work-life balance is so contradictory

[pallid aurora]

i see a lot of oportunity in my country and for sure in others for cloud architect jobs , cloud engineer. will attending a "networking and telecom software" university be in my favour for the future in this field ? (currently learning python this year , next year i wanted to get into cloud)

[vast shoal]

I find that it's more an issue of how you use your time rather than how much time you spend

You can still have work-life balance if you work smart and proactively

[pearl mango]

Yeah, I know. But what would you choose? Stay or leave?

[vast shoal]

Your gig sounds pretty nice. Going to therapy and reflecting on where your issues stem from sounds like a good idea. If after all that you find that there's really no way for you to develop professionally in your current role, you can at least start looking around for a different opportunity.

[pearl mango]

Sure, thanks. I got into an interview round due next week. If I get an offer I can self-reflect and see what the current job market is like. Cause of the new job, HR told me I'm missing many skills and fundamental knowledge.

I'm already kinda turned off by this but I'll try my best to research and reflect for the next week.

[main knoll]

Anyone here completed a national extended level 3 computer science diploma in the UK and have any insight on what I'm to expect?

[vapid jay]

Meaningless.

[main knoll]

I need it to get into UNI though

[vapid jay]

Don't worry. Any high school curriculm can be easily conquered only if you hardwork.

[wide shale]

hello hello!i would need some help with my code if possible,im kind of new to coding and i don t know how to fix this

i posted the problem in #1035199133436354600

[open ivy]

In my networking I am likely to meet someone who works in retail.

Because its hard to get a job coding but easy (I think?) to get a job in retail.

And I meet people in retail constantly.

So I need a way to emotionally support those who have a passion in coding but are currently in retail. They will feel better and it can help them switch careers if it gets thier projects off the ground.

[vast shoal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[nocturne harbor]

!clban 502958350334689303 piracy

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @versed obsidian permanently.

[open ivy]

There have been a lot of bans lately.

[vapid jay]

i asked thisIf you could go back and restart my programming journey,what would I do differently to make things easier to understand
and people said this 🔢 Order to Learn the Concepts They Mentioned
✅ 1. Data Structures
Start here — they are the foundation of all programming logic.

Learn: Lists, Maps, Sets, Stacks, Queues

Why: Everything else (algorithms, architecture) builds on these

✅ 2. Algorithms
Once you know data structures, learn how to use them to solve problems.

Learn: Sorting, Searching, Recursion, Basic graph/tree ideas

Why: These train your brain to think like a programmer

✅ 3. Principles
Now that you can write code, learn how to write it well.

Start with: SOLID, DRY (Don’t Repeat Yourself), KISS (Keep It Simple), YAGNI

Why: These make your code cleaner and easier to maintain

✅ 4. Patterns
Once you write bigger programs, you’ll start to repeat solutions — that’s when patterns help.

Start with: Singleton, Factory, Observer, Strategy

Why: They are common solutions to reusable problems

✅ 5. Architecture
Finally, learn how to organize big systems or apps.

Learn: Layered architecture, MVVM, Clean Architecture (when you're ready)

Why: You now understand code, logic, and patterns — now you're ready to structure apps properly

Know how they work, when they’re fast/slow, and when to use each one
👉 These matter in every language, not just Android.

✅ Principles
Means programming best practices like:

SOLID principles

DRY (Don’t Repeat Yourself)

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

YAGNI (You Aren’t Gonna Need It)
👉 These help you write code that's clean, reusable, and maintainable.

✅ Algorithm
Learn how to:

Think through problems logically

Use basic algorithms (sorting, searching, recursion)

Solve coding interview-type questions
👉 Algorithms train you to solve problems, not just copy solutions.

✅ Architecture

[near ocean]

Thats cool and all but this is borderline linkedin shitposting tier spam

[vapid jay]

its a question

[near ocean]

Its not a question if you post an answer thats 17 floors tall alongside it

An answer so long it didnt even fit in the textbox and is pretty obviously AI generated

[still condor]

What would you say is the main difference between MVVM and MVC?

[vapid jay]

im asking if this is accuratee?

[still condor]

oh, I thought that was you posting your advice

[vapid jay]

my question is should i be learning this to know

no not advice someone told me to learn this so i canbe good in all languages im asking if thisis accurate

[still condor]

This is a question to a particular person, so it doesn't make sense to mark an answer as universally correct or incorrect

and yes, it does look like a mix of ChatGPT and LinkedIn

[near ocean]

I dont think its accurate in any context really, ask a human preferably, one that works as a dev

[buoyant seal]

Not very accurate and more looks like shitposting from linkedin.
there are some truthful moments mixed into it, but their meaning gets lost under the pile of stuff.

you can be learning first some book about language of your choice and trying to practice it on small stuff, Head First Python, Head First Java, or Head First Golang and etc
There can be practice for data structures and algorithms with grokking algorithms yes

Throw away all the principles, architecture, patterns , even algorithms themselves they aren't very important.
What is actually REALLY important, is finding source of practice to write programs on your own
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html wrote some article on this point.

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
Nice to read Code complete, as it is full guide towards covering all the aspects of programming and what to learn next it has recommendations
like learning refactoring by martin fowler and etc, at the end of book plenty of recommendations, at every covered chapter books recommendations too where to go

And is REALLY important once u get hang of average stuff reliable, data structures, loops, classes, bla bla and coded thousands code lines
it is learning Unit testing 😋
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
This is holy grail making programming more sane and will help you more than learning architecture/patterns stuff that are very rarely usable anyway.

Plethora of practice, 80-90% to get hang of it is the most important part. So u could incorporate learnt stuff into your workflow!
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/article_visual_debugger_in_vscode.html
Getting hand of your tools to work efficiently is important too

[buoyant seal]

After that at some point can be continued theoretical education and things could be learned like design patterns, Solid, clean architecture and etc
That will be necessary stuff to get hang of architecture manipulations, getting better with unit testing, being able to write libraries on your own.
for maximum usability of such architectural stuff u need very preferably getting hang of language with static typing first, otherwise this custom architectural stuff is very badly usable in dynamic typed scripting lang

But the important stuff to build your foundation on Unit testing first! Make things rapidly auto testable first, build programs with testing in mind!
Then things will be FIXABLE, IMPROVABLE, Iteratable to be continued further instead of having situations when it is easier to rewrite from scratch than to continue

[vapid jay]

thank you darkwin. the reason why this topic came up one of the reasons is because i dont know weather or not Darkwin remembers buthe helped me with a problem in KOTLIN and so i thought how could darkwin help me with this problem when this is a python server so there msut be some skills that are transferrable to stacks and laguages

[buoyant seal]

Sure. there are transferable skills. Unit testing is the best skill transferable between languages. (in fact it is even easier being done in scripting languages... at least in this aspect they do have advantage over languages like kotlin)
I called those skills "Core Software engineering skills"

Besides that Code Complete is full of material average junior to middle weak dev needs to know and u will know what to learn next after this book, mostly with transferable stuff between languages

At some point as i mentioned good to get hang of design patterns https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#HeadfirstDesignPatterns
But i believe they are more important from the point of getting used to manipulating architecture than actually being needed themselves 😄
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CleanArchitectureACraftsmansGuide i enjoyed this book to get full understanding how to write unit testable apps at 100% capacity and being able to write libraries well. But its understanding requires plenty of practice and ability to manipulate architecture at some weak level first (Head First design patterns should help a lot)

If u have problems like how to Refactor code, it could be learned with appropriate book of Martin Fowler
if u wish to learn software development from more... business/theoretical like approach to do some planning first instead of straight jumpping to coding, than SLDC can be learnt with https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#SystemsAnalysisandDesign

But All that stuff will be useless unless u practice it. https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
U need plenty of practice to get hang of each 1-2 books here. And all the architecture ones aren't very important at all, i would recommend aiming to learn all the necessity to understand unit testing as soon as u will be able to make sense, and then build your theoretical and practical knowledge on top of it.

making sure to learn your IDE/tools to work well for you for easy code debugging, intelliense, working with the code, making sure you can use visual debug from within unit testing itself, then it will make natural the process of development with them

Unit testing leaves your code as i mentioned FIXABLE and IMPROVABLE, so whatever u learn after that, u will be able to add to your already existing code!
it is very crucial thing for preserving mental sanity.
Try to understand EACH theoretical book with skills from the point how to work with with unit testing in mind, then it will be precious

[elfin condor]

My belief if that AI will in 10 years make a lot of field very effective. But the demand wont be rising. And so if every company cuts of 50% of the work force for those fields, there will be insane competition for the top senior level jobs only

[vast shoal]

Current AI aren't even remotely close to being able to replace any human developer, even a junior one.

[vapid jay]

nice about unit test there are so much to unit test like entire repos etc do you mean unit test everything?

[vast shoal]

And there's no reason to believe we're on a determined track to getting there in the next 10 years.

[buoyant seal]

First chapters of this theoretical book about unit testing explain what kind of testing exist and what to aim for, how to avoid traps in it in order to be not dissapointed. Making things in a bad way can leave you broken and not trusting auto testing.
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
It is also good idea always writing CI code (like in Github Actions) that ensures running all tests on every commit. Because CI is not lazy and always does it, u will be able to see as soon as possible if smth broke and able to fix things relatively quickly.

As long as u adhere to Git best practices and commit often. Do get used to best Git practices. COMMIT OFTEN! every if u changes few code lines, sometimes changed many files, or even can be 50 files at the same time.
As soon as u are confident that current code amount is probably working and u checked it, GIT COMMIT! to avoid already existing code being needed to keep in mind and recheck that all is all right

[vast shoal]

@elfin condor Just because there's been a technological revolution in AI in recent years doesn't mean that revolution is sufficient to get us human-level AI that can replace human developers.

There's no indication that's going to be the case currently.

We may have to wait 100 years before we get the next one. There's no way of knowing.

[buoyant seal]

We do regular level of unit testing depending on app needs and code needs.
Sometimes it is very low level one unit testing that checks only few functions, or even checks 1-2 class.
Sometimes it is more close to integration testing and uses Web framework test client and executes requests towards its endpoint to check that things are all right.
U need a mix of fast unit tests being able to do that and that, being comfortable with your visual debugger to make possible unit testing from within unit tests itself instead of testing the whole app.
That helps decreasing "SCOPE"/SIZE of code your work with, making very easy checkable only the new written part, or seeing that changes work all right with this small part
Before going furrther and checking that all stuff integrates well to work at the level of entire app
Do read the khorikov book, it is all explained there
The important part is usually always trying to keep tests rapidly working, working determeministallly (not random failing, as long as code remained unchanged, they remain working), and very recommending executing from CI to see always when they are passing and when they are already not (which will be super useful if u git commit often)
Unit testing is especially important in Backend development due to the code often failing at runtime due to leaking database abstractions, even if u use languages like Kotlin/C#, they will not save you from Relational databases code before runtime to work correctly, but unit testing will save

[elfin condor]

Why has the demand for junior swe dropped 30% then?

[vast shoal]

Source?

[elfin condor]

Chat gtp has been functional for like 5 years, if that. AI has advanced insanely within that short time. 10 more years and more funding and what will you not be able to do with it? Expert level coding? Maybe. I’d agree if you said that. But would you still need the same size team? No

[vast shoal]

I'm a professional software developer who use LLMs constantly in my daily workflow. They are very useful, but they are productivity enhancers at best. They aren't even remotely able to operate autonomously, and they're extremely limited in the size of the context they can use to solve tasks, as well as the modes by which they can collect context. They can't learn and improve over time. They're not even in the same ballpark as a junior human developer. AI has indeed advanced rapidly in recent years, but that is not a predictor for how it will advance in the future. It's an extremely big chasm separating an LLM and an AGI, and it's not at all clear how AI companies will overcome that chasm based on these recent advancements.

[elfin condor]

How long have you been a SWD? And the point wasnt that they’re replace you, it’s that they dont need as many junior devs anymore. If you cut 30% of every dev team from every company. What happens to the insane amount of qualified and junior devs on the market?

[vast shoal]

As for why junior hires may have dropped recently, there are lots of possible explanations that have nothing to do with AI. For example, in the economic recovery period after the pandemic, tech hiring was at an all-time high, and that need is now saturated, so tech companies are labor hoarding.

[buoyant seal]

The reason why Nvidia convinces everyone that advanced AI will be soon, just in few more years is because they earn a lot of money right now 😄
When gold rush happens they sell shovels, so yes they win regardless how much crap the final result and if there is profit from this AI or not.
Marketing people will tell any lies to get more money, business is business, and billions of extra money will make them telling whatever is necessary to earn more

[vast shoal]

About 12 years

[vast shoal]

If they can't replace a junior developer, they're not gonna hire fewer junior developers. The productivity boost from LLMs is not even remotely to the tune of a 30% reduction in workforce.

[elfin condor]

”For instance, a study by ServiceNow and Pearson indicates that nearly 26% of junior application developer tasks will be augmented or fully automated by 2027. ”

This is in europe, nothing to do with Nvidia and AI hype

[buoyant seal]

predictive study like this is nothing more than fortune telling. Especially if they are done by non technical people.
We are promised having AGI and Fusion reactors in every next 30 years, but those 30 years already passed at least twice and it still remains promised to be invented in yet another 30 years
Do u believe that much into fortune telling?
Take everything with grain of salt, all those predictions... are nothing to rely upon.

[elfin condor]

It most def is. Claude and and cursor can easily handle easier tasks rn. And that’s again rn. While both of them barely have gotten started

[vast shoal]

The only people who are even a little qualified to make such predictions are the people working for the AI companies or professional developers who have experience using AI. And one of those categories have a vested interest in hyping up AI as much as possible.

[vast shoal]

No, Cursor can handle absolutely trivial tasks right now that barely have any business value at all.

Anything beyond that is more trouble than its worth, unless you extremely carefully manage the context.

[digital fjord]

I always wonder where this confidence comes from. Claude can't even do my college homework, much less anything that exists in practice.

[vast shoal]

And if you have to do that, then it's just tantamount to a productivity enhancer, which is what I've been saying all along.

[buoyant seal]

Your assumption that it "barely started", while in fact it can be very well the stretched maximum of the technology achieved withn those fea years.
They are LIMITED by their technology limitations. Breakthrough require some new principles to be opened usually, chances for them to happen by magnitudes to improve things further are sort of small. Especially with how much the stuff if usually expensive with neural networks.

[elfin condor]

Ok, in that case you tell me, for business law, most if not all writing and reading related jobs, accounting, finance, algorithms (basic ones), data analysis (junior level), marketing and so on. How will AI’s advancement not affect the work force size of those field. Please explain to me

[brazen island]

My observation is that they make competent developers a lot faster but they don't necessarily speed up people that don't know what they're doing so for the time being it's absolutely essential to still know what you're doing.

[elfin condor]

Do you by chance stuff it 50 promts in 1 go?

[vast shoal]

Most likely because they're at best gonna be productivity enhancers in those fields as well.

[balmy mural]

Highly selective demonstrations that make it look significantly better than it is. The demos I've seen have been very impressive. But trying to get the same real world performance as the demos is a different story

[brazen island]

The problem is that I think there's a whole load of people that just won't become competent anymore because they rely on these tools

[vast shoal]

It's very easy to do a cool demo with for example Cursor. But it's nigh impossible to make something actually useful that you need for a real-world purpose. Based on my direct personal experience.

[brazen island]

You can design a spec, your architectur etc. and pass that all over to the LLM so it implements the thing exactly as you would have but in less time. That's what I do.

[elfin condor]

Yes I agree, my point is that. If you have competent devs. Say a team of 10, now you maybe only need a team of 6 or 7 to do the job of 10 people in less amount of time by cutting the trivial annoying stuff. And 3-4 ppl are cut everywhere, that’s an issue

[brazen island]

But to do tohis you need to know how to code of course

[buoyant seal]

We will be all affected, but i am for now concerned by amount of disinformation spawned from LLM usage
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/feb/01/australian-lawyer-caught-using-chatgpt-filed-court-documents-referencing-non-existent-cases
We would have to adapt and distinguish truth from falses plaguing our info world by LLM text generators.

[brazen island]

so the safe best is always, no matter what, learning great fundamentals

[elfin condor]

If you have a team that’s a lot more productive while the demand stays the same. What’s the point in having the same sized teams?

[vast shoal]

It still makes progressively more mistakes as the context grows, and progressively wastes more of your time.

[vast shoal]

It doesn't improve productivity enough. It's like expecting team sizes to be significantly affected by the introduction of intellisense.

[elfin condor]

A guest lecturer who spent his years as a senior dev in mojang, spotify, Lego heavily disagrees

[brazen island]

Oh yeah for sure, but it's just another tool. It's not always appropriate. People definitely get stuck in "sunk cost fallacy mode" when prompting over and over. For the large context stuff, you can always ask to create smaller features that require only knowing X % of the codebase, that definitely works if you architected it nicely from the get go.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, that's what I mean by managing the context. But that also means it'll always just be a productivity enhancer.

You're never gonna be able to just dump a Jira ticket on it and expect a reasonable result.

[brazen island]

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. I don't think we can reasonably know how it'll evolve

[vast shoal]

No, we can't know, there could be an AGI tomorrow, but my argument is that we have no reason to believe that this'll happen as part of the current AI revolution.

[balmy mural]

And Linus Torvalds has some strong opinions on languages like C++ and Rust. That doesn't automatically make him right about those things. Someone with strong credentials to their name can still be wrong about things

[elfin condor]

Absolutely

Otherwise there would be no value to this conversation, or any

[wraith harbor]

whats his name?

[white relic]

does that person happen to be selling courses to teach people how to use ai?
hmm...

[wraith harbor]

nobody i know at work or any of my friends at other companies think that AI is going to cause a meaningful replacement in the workforce. The only people claiming that are those who have financial interest in them actually doing that

you have to remember these AIs are funded to the tune of 100s of billions by the most powerful companies on the planet

[white relic]

guessing Henrik Kniberg, based on the resume

[vast shoal]

I can't think of a single ticket I've seen throughout my whole career that I think even the best agentic models of today could handle without extremely careful supervision. Because there are no models that can handle large contexts.

It's a fatal flaw.

[elfin condor]

Henrik kniberg

[vast shoal]

He titles himself "AI Whisperer" on youtube, among other things...

[wraith harbor]

classic

[elfin condor]

No not really

[buoyant seal]

@elfin condor if some day u wil see yet another time that smth looks like real AI, that looks super convincing to replace real people
Make sure to wait enough time and verify if it is yet another time Philippines or Indians behind working remotely 😄
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/ai-app-scam-philippines-call-centre-b2731397.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-just-walk-out-actually-1-000-people-in-india-2024-4
Small and Big companies already did this fraud. (Amazon company did that, what can be bigger than that?)

[brazen island]

The thing is, if you look at chatgpt's initial release and compare it to the baseline of say 4.5 or 4.1 (if we're specifically talking dev tools) we have made leaps and bounds of progress. It's hard to see because it changes "a little" on a daily basis but if you zoom out over the span of 2-3 years a lot has changed. Hard to tell what another 2-3 will do.

[vast shoal]

The modern day mechanical Turk 🙂

[elfin condor]

😭😭 that’s jokes

[vast shoal]

It's a big quantitative change, but it hasn't changed in certain key qualitative ways.

[balmy mural]

Seems like he sells courses and offers workshops to companies on exactly this xD

[pulsar marlin]

If all you're writing is simple CRUD apps, yeah it might be over for you.

[brazen island]

Handling of large context has vastly improved as an example

[digital fjord]

Even simple CRUD apps have a tendency to grow in scope and complexity with time.

[white relic]

even that is overstating it, I think, based on current AI capabilities.
The lack of autonomy is pretty severely limiting.

[vast shoal]

"Reshape your company with generative AI"

[wraith harbor]

i think the biggest worry is all the devs who will copy paste LLM code without evaluating it, its technical debt on steroids

[balmy mural]

I wonder how much more it can improve without big hardware changes though. It will hit a limit at some point. Latest models have already had to do some really cool stuff to be able to handle the larger context sizes

[white relic]

what's the quote? it's very hard to teach a man something, when his paycheck requires him to not understand it?

anyway

[brazen island]

But anyway. I think no one is going to convince anyone else in this kind of discussion. People come and leave thinking exactly the same. I'd be happy to move on to a different topic 🙂

[vast shoal]

The size of the context has increased, but it's not even remotely enough to replace a human

[pulsar marlin]

I'm significantly more worried about companies outsourcing projects for cheaper labor, rather than LLMs potentially replacing programmers.

[elfin condor]

That goes for almost any debate. But it’s still healthy to have them

I’ll leave today knowing a lot of non junior devs disagree with me. Which is good

But as a last thing, for those who dont believe in AI’s future. How long do you estimate before self driving cars take huge parts of the field

[near ocean]

you mean trains?

[elfin condor]

Hasnt that been a thing since forever?

[elfin condor]

Trains are not 100% autonomous, but no, cars and buses.

[brazen island]

Let's continue this one in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval. No longer has to do with careers

[elfin condor]

How does it not have to do with careers?

[near ocean]

"manually operated" vehicles like trains which are obviously more efficient and cheaper in the long run will never go away, so why would that be any different for other areas
you'll always need the human element in software dev

the way i see this AI thing going is:

• it'll start taking over and people lose their jobs
• a company does an AI-related oopsie of absolutely biblical proportions
• AI as autonomous agents are dropped or highly regulated to the point where its now prohibitive to own/operate
• jobs go back to real life fleshy people

[deft herald]

Yeah this is and has been a thing for a while. Layoffs in US, major hirings in India (or whatever. India is my company's case)

[wraith harbor]

Yeah this is happening and there's not much to be done about it I guess

[near ocean]

tariffs on indian devs

[brazen island]

It's tricky. Off-shoring isn't as big in Europe. The only time I encountered it was when I was in a multinational with a HQ in the US. To get anything done I needed approvals from the US (-7h time difference) and typically needed some things to be done by India (+7h time difference) so that easily ate an entire day

[open ivy]

I understand that paid industry expirence is better than personal projects.

But if I don't work on anything than that looks very bad it's a gaping hole. So personal projects are still very important.

[deft herald]

Unless the tariff is literally 350%, it would still be net positive for companies to do it

[near ocean]

MORE

[deft herald]

I snooped on some of my indian coworkers once and someone at my same level was making about 1/3 what i was converted to USD

[craggy cove]

Hi, I am looking for some advice. I am starting highschool in september and originally I wanted to be a software developer, yk code and work for big tech companies and stuff. But I feel like the career is to oversaturated. Recently I was thinking of jumping ships into UI/UX/Product design. I am wondering if its a smart choice for me.

[north turret]

Hello
I hope you're doing well. I truly appreciate you taking the time to read this.

My name is Haruto Tanaka. I'm a Full-Stack Developer from Japan with over seven years of experience in web development. I've had the opportunity to work with companies like Turing and Pine, contributing to impactful projects that drove innovation.

After my contract with Pine ended, I started exploring new opportunities, particularly remote roles with United States based companies, where I can bring my skills and experience to meaningful projects. However, breaking into the US job market as an Asian developer has been challenging.

That’s why I’m reaching out-not just with a request, but with the hope of building a long-term partnership.
I’d happily share 50% of the income with you as a part of the success.

I truly appreciate your time and consideration. If this is something you'd be open to discussing, I'd love the opportunity to connect and share more details. Please feel free to DM me.

[near ocean]

Sounds like a scam ngl

[deft herald]

1 - So, what, you want someone to get a job with you and split the salary 50/50? You mentioned a request but didn't actually make a request; we don't know what you're actually asking here.

2 - this is not the place to recruit anyways

[deft herald]

Thank you netflix for being so specific

[quiet mulch]

is anvil good

[pine sleet]

i've deleted this message as we don't allow recruiting on this server

[fringe sphinx]

Hi, we don't allow ads or recruiting. We're not a job board. You're welcome to ask about other things tho. Your post has been deleted.

[rustic shell]

i heard currently pandas and bs4 etc are outdated and replaced by more powerful libraries like polar, crawl4ai etc so anyone who knows or is a data analyst can you pls guide me on which libraries to learn as well as i am completely open to learn under someone

[peak halo]

pandas is still the most popular library for dataframes and is so entrenched that it's not likely to be supplanted by polars. polars is different, but I wouldn't characterize it as "more powerful".

regardless, if you want to be a data analyst, you need to focus on learning data analytics. not tools.

[rustic shell]

how to do that. i am a student just cleared highschool and changed subject so am really confursed can you pls guide me

[peak halo]

are you going to university? you should get a degree in computer science or statistics.

[rustic shell]

i am going to uni but by subject is bca i wasnt able to get into cs as we dont have uni nearby offering it so currently doing bca with major in ai ml and specialised in data science

[peak halo]

does BCA stand for bachelor of computer applications?

[rustic shell]

yes

thats why i want to do self study for data science i am ready to work but need to know how to do like i can study for 4 hours a day

[peak halo]

I've never heard of that in the US. But wherever you are in the world, you can look at job listings in your country/region and see what education requirements they have.

[peak halo]

at least in the US, self-study isn't a viable path towards data science jobs. data scientists help people make very consequential decisions, so they'll be very selective about who they hire.

[rustic shell]

bca's main focus is on software designing web and application design

[rustic shell]

yeah but if i can make great projects and work on real world problems not copy pasting it might get me to something and as i said in bca too i am doing specialisation in data science