career-advice

[potent fossil]

Just ride with it and you wont be replaced.

[fringe sphinx]

Reminded me of PK Dick's autofac story

[potent fossil]

Do you have work experinece?

[stuck urchin]

Hey I just want to talk.
Studying for stats ma rn. Looking at SAS and r stuff.
Have a BA in economics. Did python. I'm not sure how to find a job. I'd like a job in data analysis preferably. Idk what projects to make that would stand out. Help appreciated. Can do some python

[gentle zinc]

just started school, getting my degree in software engineering and just wanted to discuss what can i do with it it after the military. be really interested in finace and I trade in the stock market from time to time, just wanted you guys in thoughts or open to convo

[fringe sphinx]

It's somewhat limitless, there's many industries. The most important thing is to build a broad foundation; seek out knowledge in the areas you know the least about. Economics/finance is a good complement to software engineering; fintech is a huge industry

[potent fossil]

after university you leave for 1 years or so for the military?

i talked with a cloud architect recently who was a .net developer for many years prior to his role. He was telling with excitment his professor was telling them how much time they need to invest daily with coding or looking at code. He said his prof at the start told his class 16 hours and towards the end he came lower and lower to in the end 1 hour daily

sounds somewhat logical. Once its a habit a little every day is enough. But at the start you need a lot

[balmy spade]

I suspect most people lack the endurance to handle even 3 straight hours of working on code much less 16. "You need to invest a lot of time" is less helpful than "Here's how to make the time you do invest matter."

Though I can't disagree with the base premise; if you want to learn the skills you need to spend the time practicing them.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, the problem I have is defining it as a chore rather than a hobby or fun activity to be enjoyed

[potent fossil]

i believe there are a few people which just have it in their blood and they start at a young age and with 21 years they are already developing some hardcore backend thing. And then there are others, like me, who are already past 30 and start to code and its another thing. I can only speak for myself but i am administrating infrastructure in the azure cloud for a bit of time so i have this in backpack and if i dont quit coding i might benefit me that i actually know IT and how things work. We chose a job where you need to know a lot. I believe most other careers require less learning

[gritty rivet]

!rules 6

You should delete that before an admin has to

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[jade citrus]

@gritty rivet how can I get an approval for an advert?

[peak halo]

You can ask over @severe widget , but we almost never approve adverts. This just isn't the platform for that

[jade citrus]

Thank you, I've sent a message @peak halo

[analog steppe]

Is it possible to get a remote job as a full Stack Python developer without CS degree?

I'm experienced Full Stack SDE, but without a degree
Started with freelance in 2020, then joined a startup company(in 2022) as a full-time employee(they didn't consider my freelance work though).
I joined as flutter dev, then shown my python and devops skills and got to work on a variety of projects.

Here are my current skills.

• Python(web, ETL, async, OOPs, automation)
• React.js + tailwind, React-Native
• Flutter
• DevOps(docker, AWS ECS, EC2, and a lot more aws services).

I want to excel in something advance and get a decent remote job.

Any suggestions are welcome.

PS: I've total of 2.5 yrs of full time experience as of now, and I'm just 22 right now, so I believe I can learn something really advance right now and become more than just avg.

[summer roost]

It's not impossible, but there's a lot fewer fully remote jobs out there today than there were in 2020 and 2021, and with a fully remote job you're competing with everyone else in the country, as opposed to just people within commuting distance or people who are willing to relocate for an in person job

[analog steppe]

Yep, you're correct!
But I'm stuck at a extremely low pay I think, and getting a job in MNCs or other product based companies is also really hard(especially, without a degree).
Is there anything in python, that can be learnt at really advanced levels, and can land me a nicer job!
Or the only option is to wait till 2 years after I complete MCA?

[dawn lagoon]

Hello, anyways got a question, if someone is a beginner and wants to learn how to code. Which one should they install Python or Vision Studio Code?

[violet spire]

And don't you know which source should I trust so I can know which job role do I need to do in future like any government source or anything like this job role is going to be highest paying job role in future etc..so I can study according to it

@umbral frigate something what

[umbral frigate]

Pursue something you want to do in the tech field.

[violet spire]

I enjoy anything which is building Something and seeing it working

[umbral frigate]

Exactly, so find something that does that, and work towards it.

Find a job that matches your interests and work towards it.

[dim blaze]

I start learning Python just 3days ago, keep learning or no
(I enjoyed learning it)

[umbral frigate]

If you enjoy learning python, there is no reason not to continue

[umbral frigate]

<@&831776746206265384>

[gentle zinc]

I really appreciate that. I have been learning python and like every Saturday I would take about an hour to learn how to code. I definitely need to to pick up some finance and economic classes on the side fr

[gentle zinc]

@potent fossil so far the military. I started school while I'm in the military

[dull belfry]

python is the best

[violet spire]

Hi

[cursive axle]

hi

[cursive axle]

Y E A A S

[neat axle]

And c++?

[tardy tangle]

Is python futureproof?

Is AI/ML engineering a challenging field to get into?

[fringe sphinx]

Is anything future proof?

Or, to quote the great: predictions are hard, especially about the future.

[peak halo]

No one has a crystal ball, but python is pretty much the only language that matters for AI/ML, and that's a hot technology right now.

AI/ML requires a lot of theoretical knowledge about computer science and math. It's one of the most degree-requiring fields in computing.

[tardy tangle]

I have interest in both software engineering and AI/ML, but I am worried that learning software engineering will become obsolete.

[peak halo]

It's exceptionally unlikely that software engineering will become obsolete

[tardy tangle]

I lean more towards software engineering than AI/ML.

Big tech companies are already laying off hundreds of junior software engineers.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that's a diff question. AI is changing the nature of people's jobs, but engineering will continue to be an important job in any foreseeable future where mankind exists.

[fringe sphinx]

First: layoffs have been happening for a few years. The primary reason is economic.

[fleet reef]

Therapy

[tardy tangle]

Their reasoning for doing layoffs of some junior software engineers is because much of it can be automated by AI.

[peak halo]

That's primarily happening for economic reasons. Where it's happening because they think they can replace junior engineers with AI, it's a misguided cost cutting measure from non technical managers.

[fringe sphinx]

Don't believe the hype.

[tardy tangle]

AI is not anywhere near yet to replace software engineers, but remember than ChatGPT released in like 2022 and they've been making some good progress. I'm not really sure if AI is going to take over the jobs or not.

[fringe sphinx]

There's some anecdotes where people say they're not hiring, or laying off under performers, or where they'll hire fewer. That's certainly a factor that'll play out over the near term. But these are also companies that have laid off engineers for the last two years, just using a new excuse to make it sound like they're still healthy.

[peak halo]

It's not a foregone conclusion that it will continue to improve superlinearly

[tardy tangle]

That's what my friend said too, but I'm just really unsure on what to pursue.

[fringe sphinx]

What education level are you currently at? High school?

[tardy tangle]

We do not have the same system in my country as in the US, but my age and education level would probably be qualified as high school.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it's a scary time to try to make life decisions. I do feel you pain. What's interesting is: every field is going through the same questions... from law to medicine to software engineering and everything in between

[tardy tangle]

I am already choosing what to pursue in the future and what schools to go into and I am unsure if I want to pursue finance or become a software engineer.

[fringe sphinx]

FWIW, hybrid CS and finance is a very promising field

[tardy tangle]

Fintech?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[tardy tangle]

Is python a primarily used language in fintech? I've heard that python is really good for finance.

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't say primarily (there's a lot of parts) but Python is an important one

(And the right one to start with, imo)

[tardy tangle]

Are you a software engineer?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, in data engineering for finance related systems.

[tardy tangle]

Is there good pay and good work life balance?

[fringe sphinx]

100%

[tardy tangle]

The skills you learn in that job. Can you apply those skills to making your own things like being an entrepreneur?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes (I have)

[tardy tangle]

Are you US based?

[fringe sphinx]

I was fortunate to: get my degrees, work for a variety of companies, and get experience as both SWE and manager, early in my career. That opened a lot of doors.

[tardy tangle]

What type of SWE was you?

[tardy tangle]

Nevermind, you answered it.

[amber lynx]

Not likely, although, do you write code already? If not, why not? If your primary motivators are a big paycheck and a comfortable office job, then take into consideration that your competition are guys who program 10-12 hours a day, every day, because they love it. They, quite literally, have nothing better to do. Many of them have been doing this since they were 10-14 years old - or younger. You'll be competing with them for jobs and tech hiring is not likely to return to the pre-pandemic levels. Food for thought.

[tardy tangle]

I already write code. I've been using a computer since I was 3 years old. I am highly motivated. I also love computer science and I'm passionate about it.

[amber lynx]

So then you have nothing to worry about.

[worldly prawn]

I started praying to python gods to fix my error, and it worked

[trim shuttle]

hi guys

ihave a question i am learning pyhton from 4 months but i cant solve a single problem idk why

can you guys guide me or give me some tips

[fringe sphinx]

It's normal to find it difficult. It takes time and practice. Ask for help in #python-discussion with specific problems, and ask 'why' a lot. You'll make it.

[craggy ether]

I was recently headhunted for a role (they offered about a 3x pay rise on my current, and relocation) but due to personal circumstances didn't really want to go for it so turned it down. Are these types of offers common (can I expect another in the future?) or is it something I'll just have to seek out when the time is right and accept I might not make as much

[open ivy]

Getting a job is about good enough social and technical skills.

Social skills are subtle because of lack of feedback. For example, I talk too much because I need to talk less than average in social situations, as there is less overlap in interests. So my "talk average amount" failed and it was not immediatly ovbious why.

Technical skills are tricky because, in programming and other engineering, it requires constrained creativity. Crazy ideals collided against reality and out the other side comes 90% failures and 10% sucesses, and that 10% is powerful! Fortunatly getting feedback is easier.

Business skills are less important for most jobs, unless you are a startup! Which is another path. They blend technical and social in a strange mix. Such as "my client wants X to do Y, well Y is impossible but Z and W can be done, which one will better match thier needs?"

[outer briar]

Business skills are less important for most jobs, unless you are a startup! Which is another path. They blend technical and social in a strange mix. Such as "my client wants X to do Y, well Y is impossible but Z and W can be done, which one will better match thier needs?"

nix reference?

[vapid jay]

social skills are a must

and also are business skills if you have some future projection

i assume i will get angry responded, so i will qualify my answer, technical skills on any kind of job are super important, but unless you are top-tier you cannot make do without the other two

first of all any kind of money-getting is social

second, any kind of money-getting process that gets into being a scheme requires business administration at the least

[vapid jay]

sorry for the rudeness but are you employed?

[vapid jay]

no, im under several layers of benefits

several layers of benefits? have you had the experience of working with an actual team then?

because this soft skills trend is just ridiculous

i agree

best work experiences i had i never interacted with anyone

[fringe sphinx]

Wdym?

[vapid jay]

ridiculous as in ridiculous

[fringe sphinx]

Reminds me of this from Simon Sinek: https://youtu.be/PTo9e3ILmms?feature=shared

[fringe sphinx]

What trend are you referring to?

[vapid jay]

is this a genuine question? the message is quite self-explanatory

[fringe sphinx]

I literally have no idea what you mean. Really.

[vapid jay]

to improve communication skills essentially.

the problem is that they're treating it as a field of expertise that one needs to have utmost care on and is often equated to the importance of the work itself, it's a scummy scam to sell courses.

courses?

[lapis wind]

I would say if there are courses trying to get you to buy them for soft skills stuff then, sure, they're not worth it.

But soft skills are important, tbh in my career at least, the thing I've learnt the most across employment from when I first started was the soft skills like talking to clients & teams.

[vapid jay]

i agree with this

[fringe sphinx]

Soft and communication skills -are- as important as the work itself. Citation: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-01-mn-17288-story.html

[vapid jay]

"i assume i will get angry responded, so i will qualify my answer, technical skills on any kind of job are super important, but unless you are top-tier you cannot make do without the other two "

[rancid apex]

Idk what to do for a career and I already graduated from comp sci and worked a few jobs in sys admin and data science

[distant urchin]

are there data engineer posts or software development post in industries like banks and other local private agencies

[fringe sphinx]

For sure. Data engineering is everywhere.

[distant urchin]

i don't see any govt jobs for software engineering in my country.

everything is in private sector

nothing like competitive exams for these software roles

[near ocean]

Whats wrong with what you have experience in already

[rancid apex]

Bored of doing business intelligence stuff. Considering a jump to cloud given my sys admin prior experience but I just don't know what sounds best

Could do data engineering, cyber, or cloud. All realistic moves

[vapid jay]

Any exciting things to program?

[vapid jay]

hi

[deep forum]

I don't know what to do with my career , I was interested in AI and studied about it university, the job I got threw me in embedded coding and cybersecurity, now I am confused what to continue with after quitting or go for completely different sectors like get an other degree, and AI ML being popular how will I stand out ? I have like 1year experience

I started learning some DSA

[vapid jay]

im still 3rd year il college and im confused about a lot of things

gonna learn ai/ml this year as im pretty good with python

[open ivy]

Most people, me included, like a mixture of quiet and talking/listening. I think I slightly err on the quiet side.

However, I go such long stretches with little interaction that I overtalk in meetings. So I rarely like quiet times and tend to talk during them which is an issue.

So oops. Fixing that is going to help me get a job as I am much more limited by social skills than technical skills at this point.

[fringe sphinx]

However: from what I've seen: you are fairly introspective / reflective... and that's an important part of engineering social interactions. I bet you'll fit right in any organization.

The worst coworkers are the ones who don't reflect/introspect

[open ivy]

Its hard to break bad habits. Otherwise cigarette sales would plummet. Most smokers know better.

Introspection still helps, thankfully, and it has helped get me off the worst social habits.

[open ivy]

The job market is confusing.

Intersect these:

1. If you could never work but had an income of 100k, what would you do for fun?
2. What are needed skill in tech?

"play video games, go skiing, etc" may be in (1) but is (with few exceptions) not in (2).

But within tech, most stuff is within (2). I think focusing on what you like within tech and learning and exploring is good.

Also, remember that tech jobs (any almost any jobs) are half social skills tasks. So part of (1) should include what social activities (familiar faces, two-way interactions) are fun. Which may include ski trips and video games with friends in moderation!

[vapid jay]

fr

[vapid jay]

alright thx for advice ill try

[fringe sphinx]

I'd also add; many tech jobs involve learning the problem/domain/user space... outside of social and tech skills, understanding what/why/who/etc is important

[pine sleet]

im not doing anything if im getting paid 100k for doing nothing

what kind of question even is that

[summer roost]

I feel like you've misread the question. It boils down to "if money wasn't a concern, how would you want to spend your days?"

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied timeout to @radiant saffron until <t:1740941153:f> (10 minutes) (reason: duplicates spam - sent 4 duplicate messages).

The <@&831776746206265384> have been alerted for review.

[peak halo]

This channel. Be sure the text is easy to read and that you redact unique identifiers

I can't remember if pdfs are allowlisted, so do a really big screenshot

[dawn lagoon]

Wow!

@eternal moth Could you please be specific on what your mean?

[peak halo]

They're asking if they can post their resume/cv. What do you find unclear?

[fringe sphinx]

I don't like the ups bullets. Too much emphasis on results (which are the least important part of a job bullet) and zero information about what you actually did

This resume reads as if you're only looking for front end /web roles. This is fine, but: if you're looking for other roles, it'd be good to list other types of projects too.

[languid steppe]

@arctic grove shows ur a very cool person what u did

crazy how much a person can be and not get held up for their words

[spiral brook]

Can udemy or any online course give me a job?

[thorny wing]

Hello im 17 years old and i want to start working with programming, what language should i learn first that could help me understand other languages once im comfortable with the one i started, im really excited to start coding but i do not know where to start and im kind of lost rn...

[pine sleet]

you can start with python

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[pine sleet]

check out some of these resources

[pine sleet]

no

[fringe sphinx]

Also: just about any language you pick will help you learning other languages. There's no wrong answer. Python is a great choice and a popular one, but other languages are fine too. There's important thing is to actually learn it and practice building things.

[peak halo]

why is it important for you to know this?

[old hornet]

Just wanted to know , if here are all people experienced beginners and all .

[peak halo]

here's the age distribution of the server by time region.
Note that "Indian" is the Indian ocean. India is part of Asia for this.

Who else wants data?

[old hornet]

So most of the people are teenagers , thanks

[peak halo]

the people who answer questions in this channel are mostly older.

and they're mostly in north america or europe.

[old hornet]

I see

[old hornet]

What will i have to do to make money using python, like what specific should i learn in python which can help me to make money?

[peak halo]

what country are you in?

[old hornet]

India

[peak halo]

I'm not really sure how it works in India. Unfortunately, we don't have very many professionals in this server from India to guide you.

[pine sleet]

you should get a degree in computer science or similar

[old hornet]

I want to do freelancing and earn money so that's why I'm asking like can we use python for part time work?

Because to get degree it takes too much time

[pine sleet]

the short answer is freelancing is very difficult. the long answer is here: #career-advice message

[pine sleet]

there is no shortcut to success

well there are some but that's beside the point

[peak halo]

India is one of the low-CoL countries that godly was talking about.

And idk how indian freelancers get started

[pine sleet]

yes, now you're competing with millions of other devs working for just as cheap as you

the pool of competitors is much smaller if you get a degree and apply to local jobs

[old hornet]

Ok

[rich verge]

hey,
is there is a way to work online, full/part time/ freelancing?
I find it really hard to land anything, am I doing something wrong?

[pine sleet]

most people will find freelancing very difficult. wrt full time jobs, if you're having trouble getting callbacks, you can post your resume here and we can review it for you

[vapid jay]

where

[pine sleet]

where what?

where to post your resume?

[vapid jay]

yes

[pine sleet]

you can post an image of it here

[warm forge]

Just a question, how long has everyone been coding?(I’ll delete this if it isn’t the right channel)

[vapid jay]

alright

[brazen apex]

1 month

Trying to stay motivated and learn while job searching

[pine sleet]

8 years

[tranquil storm]

Serious coding, for about a year. Coding randomly from time to time, decades.

[warm forge]

Good luck, what field? (Ml, backend, etc)

[warm forge]

Relatable about random coding lol

[brazen apex]

I am actually a BA

[warm forge]

What does that mean?

[brazen apex]

Business Analyst

[tranquil storm]

When I wanted to build somehthing, I built it. Years ago I built a very simple CMS in PHP and MySQL. It is terrible in every way and would never share it on my resume. Today I barely recognize PHP because I haven't touched it in forever.

But it was a project I wanted to do. Did it. Then ran a couple websites off of it for years.

[warm forge]

I’m like that too, in the way that of I have a project, I’ll just get it done, and try to perfect it

I’m still in learning phase tho

[tranquil storm]

Today I'm working towards my Bachelor's Degree and hoping to shift career paths. I remembered how much I enjoyed building things in code.

[tranquil storm]

Everyone is always learning in the field. There is too much to know and there is always something new to learn. A new framework, library, language, tool, process. Always changing and always learning.

[lucid matrix]

That’s interesting. Much flatter age distribution than I’d have guessed

[modest kraken]

Almost 4 years

[vivid mirage]

Is there a place where I can look for a job or intern or some temporary task as a fresh python?

[humble sail]

Hi

May i know what jobs i can avail if i am in get a bachelors in computer

[final ravine]

There's the good first issue label on GitHub

YMMV

[vivid mirage]

got it

[junior valley]

Somebody polish here?

[wraith kindle]

Someone know about design synthesis??

[hollow breach]

"design synthesis" needs more parameters

[fringe sphinx]

Best to just ask the question, lots of ppl from different nationalities

[hollow breach]

When applying for a new job... how promiscuously should one list all the programming languages/frameworks??

Like, I sort of know Java, but haven't been doing in professionally for maybe 7 years and it probably has evolved since??

[peak halo]

for any x that you list, you should feel comfortable answering "tell me what you've done with x".
if you're an experienced developer, and you were proficient in a certain tool 7 years ago, I would think you can catch up relatively easily.

[hollow breach]

The tables turned, I've asked "what did you most enjoy doing with x?" <- That's what i've found intervievers lacking, but then again many have failed my tests because they've been doing things that they weren't interested in.

[fringe sphinx]

I look at the bullets for the most recent job to figure out what 'fresh' skills someone has. That's the part that matters most.

[noble rain]

I'm looking for environments that people ask and pay for simple programs in, I'd like to contact with anyone here who is experienced enough to enlighten and guide me briefly

[pine sleet]

look into Fiverr

[noble rain]

Thank you for this brief guidence

[hollow breach]

That works? oO I mean, have you been looking for talent with specific skills instead of like "all around, quick learner"?

[fringe sphinx]

A little of both. My first filter really really about: was this person a coder or not, and do they seem interested (thru experience) in the type of job we do?

Like, if we're hiring a data engineer: does the person have anything data related on their resume, and were they in a coding job?

[hollow breach]

I've never had to literally ask "do you know how to do thing x in lang y?" (then again, once my gut instinct hire turned out not to have a clue, so I guess it could've been a good idea.

[fringe sphinx]

I've made some bad hires too 🙂

[hollow breach]

I guess it can't be helped. There ought to be like a long-term coder fill-and--tick printable thingie. It was really scary and overwhelming stating to look for a job a while back.

Then again, a lot of it is culture thing. When I was young, coders were suits etc. Then John Romero grew a long hair and it's sort of hard to stay current 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

(Still largely true)

[hollow breach]

hmm, dayam

thanks, sort of helped with impostor syndrome

[grizzled island]

I have an offer for a python Job. Currently i work as a .Net Dev and a Python Job would be nice. But they use Zope as Framework, which would be new to me. Is it a wise idea to learn Zope in 2025?

[placid hill]

I'm overwhelmed by how much there is to learn in CS tbh, on the top of my head (this doesn't go anywhere near all the topics I have bookmarks on): async/concurrency, threading (did I mention there's a 500 page book on memory safe threading in Rust?), operating system internals (OSTEP comes to mind), DSA (graph theory, trees, backtracking etc.), formal languages and grammar, programming language theory + category theory, theory on 500 other things

I don't know why I bookmark so much stuff, why do I want to learn about these things? Though, some of these I have actually spent some time learning. I dunno, I guess seeing 14 year olds talk about how they're writing an operating system on their stack based systems programming language that they wrote in assembly does make one feel inadequate.

(of course, as one could guess, at the end of the day, as I go to bed, I try to sleep with a realization that I did nothing the whole day)

Kinda dooming myself here

[vapid jay]

same its overwhelming especially being a college student, i learn one thing just to forget about it later on.I dont even know what companies expect from freshers tbh 😭 and there's like millions of cs engineers at this point 😭

[languid mirage]

Hello

[placid hill]

Companies don't want you to be at your fullest potential as a new grad. I'm mostly talking about my internal conflicts and how they stop me from making any progress at all.

[noble rain]

Possibly (cringe) fake account detected

[vapid jay]

well what about the competition 😭 like i said every year there's like a bazzalion cs graduates

[placid hill]

Don't ask me, I want to sort out my internal issues before external ones.

[vapid jay]

ah😭 mb

[placid hill]

There's a lot of competition and it certainly isn't as easy to get a job as it was during covid or before that

[vapid jay]

yeh the competition is crazy rn

im afraid of what's to come hopefully i get employed with my newbie skills

[placid hill]

Unfortunately there's some luck involved

[vapid jay]

i have 0 luck

well my plans is to get employed in something and then invest to start a buisness hopefully it works out

[placid hill]

Nobody's going to give you a job out of nowhere, you have to apply to a lot of companies.

[vapid jay]

yes 4th year imma do that but its still scary ya know

[placid hill]

The luck factor comes in much, much later

[vapid jay]

are you in college or?

[placid hill]

No

[vapid jay]

ah kay

i wish you luck in solving your internal problems

[placid hill]

work experience is a nice bump to your resume

[vapid jay]

well that's for later ig im only worried about fresher stats,ig ill rely on solo projects and skills

[placid hill]

You might as well work for random company #9485 for the sake of work experience

[vapid jay]

yeh its better than not working

and experience will help you improve in the long run

[placid hill]

You could look for internships

Those don't (usually) expect anything crazy from you

[vapid jay]

there's competition for that as well,but now there's a scam going around in my country where they require you to pay large sums of money for being an intern

i mean im willing to be an intern for free but like why should we pay them doesn't make sense💀

[placid hill]

If anyone is falling for that, then it's the universe sorting out stupid people

[vapid jay]

well literally most of my classmates have opted for that

[placid hill]

also, a fun fact is: a lot of people don't know how to code properly, there might be a lot of competition, but a lot of them don't know shit

[placid hill]

congratulations, you're smarter than them all

[vapid jay]

true

[placid hill]

Software engineering is a field of problem solving and critical thinking, you've already beat them there

[vapid jay]

lmao thx

i mean one thing i find difficult is applying my logic to come up with innovative solutions

like everything i think of already exists

[placid hill]

Trying to innovate is a fallacy

[vapid jay]

really?

[placid hill]

No technology in this world is truly unique, they're standing on the shoulders of giants, and those giants are standing on the shoulders of bigger giants

[vapid jay]

ah

anyways gnite mate thx for the motivation

[placid hill]

That's not to say that "innovation" is inherently a fake concept, but people don't start with an empty canvas, neither do they try to do something someone NEVER thought of before in any shape or form

The innovation is how you make something better, how you connect the dots and figure out how to use something in a creative and useful way - the dots already exist

[fringe sphinx]

This is true about every scientific discipline. The more you learn, the less you know you know.

[open ivy]

Most people don't like having side projects. But they don't want to admit. So they make excuses "life is hard work so draining etc". Meanwhile, if you want side projects and to innovate, you will innovate. It's a powerful urge and will survive significant hardships.

[placid hill]

Quite the paradox, and it's overwhelming. I'm not sure how to organize myself with knowing I don't know shit.

I guess it would be better if the learning was more directed, for example, if I'm writing a programming language, I should only focus on learning things that help me solve problems I face in this specific project. And eventually I'll realize things I learned for one project, applies to others. But, that doesn't satisfy me because I want to learn a lot of theory as well for the sake of it. I expect that if I learn a lot of theory, read about how things work, and do their exercises - I'll eventually be better at programming in general. But I also want to write my own projects.

Ultimately seems like a combination of wanting to know everything + time mismanagement

[languid mirage]

Bruh I am not fake, Anyway I need help... I am good at th field of psychology HOWEVER the university requires me to study maths in order to get a digree because it requires Criteria

[true harness]

i'm curious where you found that most people don't like having side projects

[open ivy]

I would say you can have geeky students mentor you.

"Good at psychology" is a very valuable skill. Because it means that you understand social skills.

Most people who have good social skills can't introspect how they do so. Asking them for advice is like asking sea turtles why they lay eggs. They will say "go with the flow" "be natural" "take it easy" and other unhelpful instinct-as-black-box answers. This makes it hard for awkward math geeks to get social help.

But if you are naturally good at the study of psychology you can give math geeks useful advice, for the subset willing to take it. And it's only fair for them to reciprocate with one on one math tutoring which will help.

[open ivy]

Creativity is fairly rare. We are all programmed to follow the rules, have bosses boss us, work hard rather than smart.

Growing up in Florida I remember my mother tell me about the horrors of it's deep south slavery. And how slaves resisted despite cruel punishments. This was one force which pushed me to recognize the value of being yourself and not just being a source of labor for a ruling class.

[true harness]

ok, but i'm curious where you found that most people don't like having side projects

[fringe sphinx]

If you look at PhD's, they are extremely narrow in their field of expertise, and (ime) very willing to admit they don't know something outside of it. You can't know everything, and don't need to: the goal of a SWE is to be useful and productive, not 'to be the best'.

[open ivy]

At JohnS Hopkins I tried several times and rarely succeeded to find others with side projects in computer science.

I asked around, and was often told to go online (but in person was preferable when the campus was a two minute walk).

I went to the ACM and it centered around homework help and games rather than side projects.

I went to the computer science happy hour, and it was so much small talk that it became background noise and I felt a sense of "noisy-quiet" like being next to a waterfall.

One student told me "side projects aren't a thing at Hopkins" however I think that it is a more human nature thing than a magical curse on that university.

I had a student from Brazil call my side projects "gutsy". Which was strange given how he was the one who traveled to a foreign country and dealt with immigration etc.

To clarify, side projects in STEM fields were rare, they were common in humanities.

Getting back to careers, a personal project is good for getting a job if one documents it and show a passion. If one donsent't have such a genuine passion, they should push themselves a little. But if it is not coming, and they aren't depressed or otherwise mentally unwell, then maybe a more certification-focused path is better?

[fringe sphinx]

My strategy is balance: I do things (work), which naturally exposes me to novel problems and techniques. I purposefully study/research things related to my work, but maybe not immediately relevant. I enjoy reading and watching videos in unrelated areas, (ie: conference videos), and that exposes me to entirely new things. PyDis is also a great place because there's a constant flow of different topics.

[distant pier]

i am new in phython how can i start???

any sources???

[twin rampart]

same

[placid hill]

I like that approach, I guess you spend a lot of time indulging in the craft? What about balancing with other non-related hobbies?

[distant pier]

anyone give me some advice

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it ebbs and flows depending on the week. Sometimes I'm really interested in a topic, and sometimes I just grab something random as a break. But I have plenty of free time... I just try to be mindful and mix it up

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hard sparrow]

Hey, someone give me an advice in how to get a gig?

I've learned Python OOP / data analysis with pandas, NumPy, Matplotlib e etc, and I am looking for freelancing, but Idk where can I find the gigs, or advertise my work.

Would anyome experienced here share some nice tips?

Thanks

[placid hill]

right, I see

[buoyant seal]

I have side projects... and hard work is actually draining too 😅 at least if putting all energy to work during work days it is indeed draining.

i need to be somehow finding surplus energy... by using time meant for mental relax / or time at weekends and holidays if i wished achiving stuff in side projects and progression actually going

[open ivy]

Are you saying that you squeeze in side projects a little bit on the weekends?

[buoyant seal]

essentially yes. Person has 120 days off in a year by having weekends and vacation days. Plenty of time to squeeze side projects in as long as being able to sacrifice mental relaxation towards it / somehow finding relaxation partially in side projects
Some time can be found during evenings too, but work days are very draining indeed if giving yourself to a full capability, so finding time during work days is more a chance of luck, while weekends and vacation days are more or less reliable source of surpluss time/energy (as long as mental capacity is not over drained entirely)

[open ivy]

I find that side projects compete less with work for mental energy if they are more different. Like when work was cloud cloud cloud it was different enough from Numpy physics simulations.

Was it "relaxing"? More it was "decompressing" where I wanted to do stuff and was happy to get a chance to do so.

Also, not having to drive is a big help for me. An hour each way commute is 2400+ hours of traffic-jam driving each year and the cost of the car. That is a lot of time, espically in an age where people don't want to watch a video because it is 5 whole minutes long. Public transit is not the idea office either, but at least I can use it to program or even just think (since I can't really think safely while driving).

[buoyant seal]

I find that side projects compete less with work for mental energy if they are more different
Sure. very different. For work i use stuff i have to. Python / AWS and Kubernetes
For pet projects i use stuff i love to 😏 Golang in simple containers controlled by terraform yay. and do stuff as clean as i wish

[buoyant seal]

Also, not having to drive is a big help for me. An hour each way commute is 2400+ hours of traffic-jam driving each year and the cost of the car. That is a lot of time, espically in an age where people don't want to watch a video because it is 5 whole minutes long. Public transit is not the idea office either, but at least I can use it to program or even just think (since I can't really think safely while driving).
i work remotely majority of my career 😅 remote work can be having its own challenges with very blured difference between work and home.
But yeah i would not trade remote work away for sure. My end company-client is in another country anyway, not exactly wishing relocating to expensive France

[open ivy]

Transit vs driving is a good example of humans making excuses to drive.

They say BART (the transit in my area) is dangerous. But then they drive which is much more dangerous.
Maybe they just want to drive and are trying to justify why a safer and cheaper (and sometimes faster and sometimes slower, depending on traffic and locations) travel method is not thier choice.

[buoyant seal]

Not every company is remote friendly / having built good communications for remote work to be fair.
I am in a company that having communicaitons built for remote for long time already.
Some companies/people just are too much old fashion to be able productive remotely in communications
My previous company was like this.. it had definitely problems in communications enough as it is

[open ivy]

Yes I will probably just split a tiny apt wherever I work if it is not remote. Commuting sucks, even if transit is the much less sucky option it still is not fun. Turn it into a 10 minute walk instead.

I don't mind living with roomates. Most of the days I won't even be home much (work, weekend trips, etc) in such a situation.

[buoyant seal]

i don't see a big reason to live with roomates unless i will find a girlfriend 😉

[open ivy]

The bay area is so expensive that many people go homeless to save money.

That is the reason.

[buoyant seal]

i am more or less comfortable living alone. 2-3 years already like that. planing getting a cat for better mental regeneration 😏

[open ivy]

Roomates is a compromise between saving money and having a safe place to stay.

Also in this world there is too much online stuff and not enoug in-person stuff.

[buoyant seal]

software engineers salary is plenty sufficient one to pay a rent. especially if u are in third world country.
In both third world and second world countries i was in, food and rents were super cheap. basically 250 euro for renting of a dedicated flat for one person per month + some 100 for electricity/water, and luxurily i spend around 300-400 euro for food i think

[vapid jay]

Euhmm if I’m working at company then they use an team making an project?

It’s difficult doing alone on project making. 😑

[buoyant seal]

Depends how lucky u are with company / or unlucky.
in my first startup i was alone working on a backend part at least and was reponsible for all infrastructure on top.
Frontend and design were done by other people.
There was no choice to do otherwise 🙂

In a normal company after that it was always team effort. Except few parts when was gifted permission to make few my own libraries and few my own applications. in a big company with plenty of apps already running, making app alone is usually a high privilege (for which i am very grateful to them, as it keeps for me having fun with my own coding standards in those code bases)
i sort of think sometimes this is a prilvilege with devops engineering job, but sometimes see other people's fun. may be it is just the spirit of a company to allow some limited fun to have for long term workers

[open ivy]

I live in a wonderful area with a nice climate. Oceans and mountains. Lots of tech people here
Lots of people want to live here. I don't drive and there are not many other major cities for which public transit gets you to the open ocean and mountains that rise over a thousand meters from their base. All in a climate that stays between 5-40C most of the time and is dry when hot.

This is why it has one of the highest homelessness rates of the world (setting aside disasters and war).

And I have to compete with places where food and rent is much cheaper and medicine is govt payed for.

Also, my career is less secure then yours since I am weak with social skills.

Roommates makes sense for me but not for you, given the huge diff hours of work to pay a months rent and your greater career security.

[vapid jay]

Hmm 🤨 I have done frontend yes but backend at company not yet

[woeful bone]

I'm a weak and a half into the job hunt, and I'm already feeling tired. Last TWO times I was hunting, it took me a week to get a solid job. Recruiters were beating down my door. This time...it's crickets out there 😭

[buoyant seal]

Try both to find out what u like more 🙂

and to be able building actually pet projects properly. Web development is made out of both parts 😉

[vapid jay]

But python I find understandable writing but complex is how structure and yeah

[buoyant seal]

Preferably try also more than working with javascript eventually 🙂 Golang/Rust/Java/DotNet to give a go

[vapid jay]

Java is more challenge and JavaScript I have done with projects frontend and backend

Rust isn’t that cpp? 🫥

[buoyant seal]

it is modern analog/alternative we can say. Some people find fun with it to build relatively easy overly performant apps
I stick with golang for now though. i enjoy having Garbage Collector and not caring about too much low level details 😏
May be some day i will get attracted to Rust too.

[vapid jay]

Algoritme is pain 😑🔫

[woeful bone]

I have been learning Go lately, and I like it pretty well. I miss a lot of python "batteries" (like sets for one...), but Go is still pretty friendly.

[lapis wind]

The only thing I have found really with Go, is it sits right in the middle of two sides I find myself on, but is never the right tool for either.

• It is either super simple and not performance intensive, where normally it is just easier to use Python and use the batteries.
• It is performance intensive, and the amount of work it takes to write a fast and maintainable project in Go vs Rust makes it undesirable.

An issue I have seen with all our Go code base is more of the dev time is spent working around Go's "simplicity" in order to have stable performance, and the lack of language features in places with it being so "simple" leads to complex code with a lot of branching about going on for things like file cleanup, etc...

[buoyant seal]

i enjoy golang for writing very readable/maintainable static typed applications with minimum amount of dependencies 🙂
Perfect when u aim your pet projects to maintain a dozen of years
Golang advantage is more of writing structured code like java than actually for performance...
...but its native profiling tools capable to provide you out of the box with even flamegraphs are nice for easy memory/cpu debugging
and its easy parallelism is very advantegous too 🙂
language with GC that provided all tools easy to debug problems with GC. quite nice to me

this stuff in pure std tools provided with language 😏 interactive profiler

[olive cradle]

Hello if I wanted to learn automation, scripting and AI, would I be spreading myself too thin?

Right now I am focusing on mastering python so picking a focus in Python is probably way ahead in my future but I was just curious

[fast fossil]

AI is a pretty big field all on its own

[olive cradle]

I know but when I think about AI, I think about automation in general. Like you use AI to automate various things. This is obviously an oversimplification but I was wondering how big the crossover is?

[fast fossil]

well, in that case, your main focus seems to be on automation, though of course that's a large field too
that said, you should explore various areas in the beginning anyway and then dive deeper
a sort of a T formation where the I part of the T represents depth
you explore a wide range of topics and then sometime dive deeper in some you find most interesting

[olive cradle]

Ok that makes sense, thank for the insight

[lapis wind]

Yeah I can agree with that, but in any of my use cases those features tend to not actually be anymore useful over something else, mostly because every other language already has good tooling to achieve a similar thing, maybe not inbuilt, but with minimal setup.

My biggest peeve is just the amount of working fighting the GC, it is great to have when performance isn't super critical, but if you're in a situation where you don't want things randomly stalling or the likes, then it gets more awkward.

If a project is really small like a tiny micro service, sure probably good enough, but to me I think it is a "simple" language until you try and do something that isn't simple to implement with the std lib, then it becomes more annoying

Example: you have a service handling http requests with latency requirements in the hot path, and background tasks handling the slow path, you absolutely do not want the background tasks running on the same thread(s) and/or scheduler as the hot path to prevent one incidentally affecting the other (mostly background affecting hot path)

Anyway, probably getting a bit OT for this channel

[buoyant seal]

My biggest peeve is just the amount of working fighting the GC, it is great to have when performance isn't super critical, but if you're in a situation where you don't want things randomly stalling or the likes, then it gets more awkward.

I don't want to deal with memory manually. Extra effort/complexity 😏
And i don't want to write in languages without typing, which have their ecosystem rapidly decaying if using its any libs (looking for example at nodejs)
For me usage of Golang/Java/Kotlin are just naturally left remaining choices at the moment. And both languages work for Backend development/devops engineering or having nice niche usage cases like modding minecraft/starsector. Or u can develop with golang all server infra tooling. (Anything CI/monitoring/terraform/kubernetes related having native support)
both those languages have ecosystem/domains where they are usable exactly where i desire
Also nice for java being able to go android

Just wising maximum fast development, and i don't care much about memory/sacrificing RAM to GC
I agree to learn using memory profiler if ever having problems with memory

[lapis wind]

Yeah fair enough, my point is more just aware of Go as a language choice if you're using it for something where you need consistent latency and throughput behaviour under load. I think it is a bit of a "works great until it doesn't" type deal

Equally same arguement goes for that of Java or C#, etc...

[olive cradle]

Also, I have a small background in web development. I know basic HTML, CSS and basic JavaScript although I am out of practice. With my interest in automation I was wondering if I have any use for those web development technologies?

[buoyant seal]

I value to the top of a pedestal developer comfort pretty much. From the point of developer comfort, i don't really wish to care about extra details like memory too much precise management.
and level of pragmatism with choosing them is nice too. Golang/C#/Java are popular and ecosystem shaping to cover a lot of stuff. Highly job popular too.

To reach limits of those languages, u have to make such memory sensitive thing like Database 😏 (hello Cassandra)
They still managed to make it working for all those years anyway and it still managing to be popular in use

[near rapids]

Is data analysis and wrangling still a thing

[peak halo]

Yes

[vapid jay]

chat is this class legit 🥶

[edgy trail]

hey guys how are you doing?

[jaunty nacelle]

i just got traumatized by a technical interview(?)

[light glade]

Good day everyone

As a beginner that just started Python 2 months ago, I hope you guys can shed more light on the career parts I can basically focus on and direct my energy at

Thanks for your time guys.

[civic forge]

What do you wanna do with Python

[stoic hatch]

I have a question i got a contract role for 6 to 8 months as sofware engineer 2 . I have 5 years as sde and permanent role. So can we take contract roles will it effect our profile

[normal arch]

Have you tried calling it

[normal arch]

Same

[jaunty nacelle]

calling it?

[normal arch]

Sorry I’m half awake and have no sense of humor

[light glade]

If I know I won’t be asking brother, I just wants to make money but I want it through Python

[vapid jay]

why what happened

[jaunty nacelle]

i didnt know most of it lmao (its why i decided to join here)

[vapid jay]

can you share some of the questions or tasks

[twin blaze]

hello

[broken moon]

guys is it normal to not have good coding understanding in yr 11when wanting to major cybersecurity in uni?

or am I doing everything really wrong

[final ravine]

Sounds pretty normal

[broken moon]

like mine is really basic I’m doubting my self if I’m even taking the right carrer path

or is ts very normal

[final ravine]

I think you learn most on the job

[fringe sphinx]

it's totally normal to feel imposter syndrome or feeling of being overwhelmed by the amount of information out there... even college graduates often feel like they don't know enough.

And, it's very normal for a high school student to not know much about coding before Uni.

[broken moon]

thanks with all the requirements in exams being alot more advanced than what we do in class found my self just teaching myself and being overwhelmed w all this info think I needed to hear ts thx

[fringe sphinx]

In case you want to see how other people are feeling - https://www.google.com/search?q=imposter+syndrome+reddit.com%2Fr%2Flearnprogramming+after%3A2023

[broken moon]

much love man

[slate sapphire]

hi idk if i’m overthinking this but what would be better for a career as a software engineer, a masters of science or a masters of engineering.

[slate prairie]

Hello. I got fired 3 days ago. I am looking for some guidance on how to get my next job asap. I am a senior analyst with 4 years of experience in India, seeking the Data Scientist role.

[fringe sphinx]

I have no idea about India market, but standard advice is: Prepare the best resume you can AND seek critical feedback on it. You can post it anonymized here for critique. And, Network (talk to colleagues, friends, friends of family, etc)

[slate prairie]

Here is my resume. Please share feedback if it's good or if there is scope for improvement.

[fringe sphinx]

This isn't a type of role I hire for, so take my advice with a grain of salt: I'd love to see more technical stuff, that conveys "I'm a Data Scientist" rather than "I've done some stuff related to data science". I get the latter vibe from the bullets in the most recent job... like "developing the powerbi dashboard" undermines the message here (not hugely, just a quick read)

Second, the two column layout makes the job bullets feel squished. Either shorten the job bullets, or go to one column.

The first sentence of your about me is fluff. It says nothign that the resume doesn't. Make it interesting and get to the point about what makes you different.

also don't like the grey background on skills. Skills is least important to me because I should see the skills from your job bullets anyway.

Remove "achievements/tasks". Unnecessary to repeat under each job.

And what'd you do from 2016 to 2020?

[slate prairie]

Career break for family medical emergency. I'd rather explain that on call than mentioning it on resume.

But thanks for the other pointers. I will consider them. Many others have also pointed out to me to go with a 1-column format.

Btw, the ATS score of this resume was 72. How much should I aim for, at the minimum?

[fringe sphinx]

No idea.

I hire devs, but: I generally want to see coding-related skills in the most recent job bullets. Things that tell me that you can hit the ground running.... even something about the tech stack.

[slate prairie]

Leetcode profile would be relevant?

[fringe sphinx]

Not particularly, especially not after a few YOE like you have

The thing is: I want to know you can code. That you've been coding. That if asked, you could start a project from scratch and not need handholding on the basics.

Usually something about the tech stack that's tells me something about the coding environment you've worked in, maybe something about testing/validation, GitHub, etc

[slate prairie]

Got it. Thanks for your inputs.

[analog sun]

@mental spruce your message was removed for violating rule 6

[neat oxide]

@karmic loom im onw windos

[lost cypress]

someone pls help, how am I supposed to fill out this table??

This is sent to me in a Gmail for an interview invite
i cant copy the table at all so what are they expecting this feels so stupid

[slate prairie]

Just create a chart in Excel, apply the same formatting (optional), and paste it's screenshot in the mail.

[true harness]

is this a word file? just download it, edit it, then send it back

[lost cypress]

its an email

[lost cypress]

bet thank you

[true harness]

o. i would just put the answers in bullet points then or something

[lost cypress]

mann i asked and they legit replied " Fill out the table please " lolz

i ended up going with Karan's option and that worked well I just pasted my excel table in the reply email

[white relic]

typically I would expect to be able to reply-and-quote the original email and just edit the quoted part

[potent aspen]

hello

[potent aspen]

how do i run like an exe a py file?

[white relic]

Hello!
This channel is for career discussion. For technical questions related to Python, try #python-discussion

(the general answer is "you don't", but it's a nuanced topic)

[potent aspen]

oh ok thx

[olive cradle]

Can you have a variable as a key in a dictionary?

[pine sleet]

yeah, as long as the variable is hashable

[olive cradle]

Ok thanks

So as long as the variable has values that can't be changed like int, str and tuple. So I can't use a variable that has a list as the key then

[pine sleet]

yeah

[olive cradle]

You wouldn't use a function to store data correct? Since functions are in the local scope and the variables will be destroyed once the function is done running.
I would need to figure out how to store the data that a function produces into the global scope right?

[pine sleet]

let's move over to #python-discussion

[olive cradle]

Oh my I didn't realize I was in the career discussion mb

[opaque charm]

Hey, i want a realistic way of looking here from a person that works as a programmer. No high school, no college. 1.5 years of learning, doing projects, adjusting portfolio etc. I live in poland btw. Is there even chance to get work? Ive heard that its nearly impossible or it takes years to get a junior job that pays minimal wage for a 6-12 months. thanks

[lapis wind]

It is possible, it is very hard, but possible

In the current market I would recommend not using Indeed/LinkedIn/random job site.

Instead your biggest friends are going to tech events and meetups where you can interact with others and build you network while still learning stuff

I think juniors and people looking to break into the field massively under value going to in person events

[languid mirage]

Lol ok

[buoyant seal]

You have competing high advantage if getting a work locally / through local sites / through local any means of finding jobs
Also yeah.... i started with low salary in my first 6 months. Around 300 euros per month it was, with quick raising to 400 euros.
Then i managed to get 1500 euros per month (in 6 months) due to having good negotiating skiils and managing to do high impact. Mostly luck that i got it -_-.
Real consistent salary i got after 12-16 months, when i quited that startup and joined oursourcing type company. There from a start i was able to have 2000 euros per month.
I managed to self study necessary skills to pass interview succesfully. Invested into code quality stuff, and also acquired some rare/valuable enough job role in addition
(I live in a country with similar economy situation to yours, so numbers should be very comparable)

Some could be stuck with low salary for many years. much longer. i just picked a good path / got lucky / had jump start with having solid education graduated

[subtle radish]

hey guys, has anyone here used the julia programming language, and if so, what for?
just a bit curious about the language since the only place i've seen it being used is for a computational linear algebra course at the uni which i'll be going to next year

[gritty rivet]

A search of job listings or LinkedIn profiles will show you that it's used for a wide range of statistical / data analysis type of work, but is relatively rare compared to Python or R

[subtle radish]

are you aware of any uses of it in hardware programming or embedded systems?

the course i mentioned shows some uses of it in robotics but i have never seen it in use for such fields

[balmy spade]

Embedded systems (and robotics) have large applications world-wide. Anything that is electric likely has some level of embedded systems in it.

[thorn goblet]

Good Evening! Looking for some feedback on this wall of text for my current job description. Just want to make sure it reads okay. The job im applying to is a Sr. DevOps Eng. for context, I'm attempting to make a large transition from vulnerability/cyber to more of this kind of role, so I have a lot of cyber in my history, but been trying to squeeze in scripting into my job where I can.

Vulnerability Management & Compliance: 
- Lead a team of 15 in reducing environment vulnerabilities by over 99%, cutting active vulnerabilities from more than 15,000 to under 100, and supporting a moderate-risk Authority to Operate (ATO) certification. Vulnerability count has been maintained for 15+ months.
- Conduct comprehensive A&A scanning and manage artifacts for a large number of end-user devices and servers to support continuous monitoring and compliance efforts.
- Enhance security posture by implementing and maintaining Host Based Security System (HBSS) suite across a network of 500 assets, achieving a 98% compliance improvement.

Server Upgrades & DoD STIG Compliance:
- Conducted server upgrades and implementation of additional RedHat servers in line with DoD STIG standards, including migrating from outdated systems to secure, compliant environments as per the Plan of Action and Milestones (POAM).
- Led the restructuring and redesign of the Active Directory forest, reducing Organizational Units by 40% to streamline user and group management.
- Directed the overhaul and implementation of a serial number system for Group Policies, cutting GP Objects by 60% and enhancing documentation through standardized references in the workshop wiki.

Automation & Scripting:
- Created and maintained automation scripts using PowerShell and Bash to execute over 5,000 compliance checks across 20 RedHat 9 STIG Checklists, thereby streamlining recurring cybersecurity processes.
- Engineered a custom Bash script that mirrors DISA’s Ansible STIG playbooks, enhancing the implementation of STIG requirements on servers.
- Integrated PDQ Inventory, PDQ Deploy and numerous custom packages, which significantly reduced vulnerability remediation time and resulted in cleaner, more efficient scans.

Documentation & Knowledge Keeping:
- Deployed a local Wiki.js instance to centralize collaboration and knowledge sharing among team engineers, reducing search time for information and boosting overall productivity.
- Ensured long-term maintainability by writing clear, well-commented code and supplementing it with comprehensive documentation on the Wiki, facilitating easier onboarding and future reference for engineers.

Other responsibilities include managing the following: Forescout, Squid Proxy, RedHat Satellite, Tenable Nessus/SecurityCenter, VRAM.

Looking for any constructive criticism or modifications I should make, thanks in advance! 🙂

[modest kraken]

looks good to me but im not a recruiter

[sour iron]

I don't know if it matters but you're using 1st form of verb for the first part and second for the remaining. Maybe you should keep it consistent, unless this actually serves a purpose I'm not able to recognise right now

[fringe sphinx]

That's all for a single job?

It's a lot. Would want to see the entire resume (anonymized) but: take a step back and think about what skills or experiences you want to emphasize. You don't need to explain everything you did.

[subtle radish]

my bad i meant uses of the julia programming language in embedded systems

[quasi pelican]

are there any bootcamps that arent redundant

[fringe sphinx]

wdym by redundant?

[torn solstice]

hy

[ripe goblet]

there's one in Udemy about using python packages and building GUIs and Desktop applications, fully fledged websites, web apps and some games in like 100 days

[digital fjord]

I'd expect to find julia more in the CAS/simulation parts of robotics than actually implementing the control for a robot.

[vapid jay]

😭 low salary python job after iit? buddy whatt

[peak halo]

@torn solstice your message was removed for asking for employment.

[sullen gazelle]

Could I get a good resume template and suggestions

I'm a college student and preparing for aptitude tests and interviews. Till now I haven't prepared a resume for myself.

[torpid sequoia]

hello

im new here

[fringe sphinx]

#career-advice message

[fringe sphinx]

Do you best, then post anonymized here for critique

[cedar geyser]

Hi, i'm a cs student who has 4 months of free time (literally 24hours a day) before starting college and was wondering to any open source projects I could contribute to? I'm pretty decent in python and wanted to do some work related to it from a pure hobbiest standpoint so was wondering if I could contribute to any open source works or projects which don't require a high degree of python knowldedge. (My coding skills should be comparable to a typical sophmore and i've worked as a developer in an internship before)

[digital fjord]

You could contribute to this servers projects, refer to #dev-contrib for more info. Past that, https://goodfirstissue.dev/ is a solid resource on finding targets for contributions.

[thorn goblet]

Yes, I was expanding on my resume as it autofilled it and it looked a little lackluster on the application page

[open ivy]

Its amazing how much more people, even in tech, flex working hard vs working smart.

I think that is a mistake. "What is the most difficult part of your work"? Should now be about super long hours or all nighters.

Tech provides very difficult, interesting challenges to behold. We can cherish how we overcome these trials. And it makes for an interesting interview response.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[deft herald]

Most difficult part? Being held at the will of a handful of execs making millions in stocks every 6 months to do their bidding, and there's nothing i can say about it to make any difference

[analog sun]

@valid geode hello, your message was removed for violating rule 6. In addition we are not a job board or a place to seek employment

[clear kestrel]

can you please tell me where the description is found?

[peak halo]

Discussion of Python and the world of work | NOT FOR RECRUITMENT | For recruitment and jobs, see https://www.python.org/jobs/ and https://www.pythonjobshq.com/

[clear kestrel]

thanks a lot!

[hollow oyster]

Hello. I'm a freshman undergraduate. I am trained in Data Science but i have no knowledge about cybersecurity. Like in Data Science i have used Pandas. But thats about it. I have no clue about Machine learning and Deep Learning. Have an idea about Generative Ai but thats about it. I'm considering Cybersecurity as I love the concept of hacking but its not as tender as it sounds i believe. Its not like the one you see in movies and stuff. But I still love coding. Math is not preferable to me if you ask me. I don't like math much. Can someone tell me which job is believed to raise in numbers? What should I do? What is the deal with the market now?

[open ivy]

That is why I make sure I leave some time and energy to myself for side projects, excersize, etc. It can be a bit scary but done correctly work performance doesn't drop that much.

[deft herald]

Fully agree. I've been bad at joining the rec activities on site lately...need to get back into the habit

[open ivy]

Also, there are groups of people who like to talk about personal projects, I know some in game-dev.

They can make having such a project more rewarding. WHich is good because it helped me replace about half of my doomscrolling time with more project time which is better spent.

[fringe sphinx]

This is like asking which city you should live in. The market is always chaotic: prepare by building a wide foundation, gain experience through a variety of projects, and be adaptable.

[hollow oyster]

I completely agree but there should at least ONE main skill that you are focused on because you want to be efficient. its not practical to be highly knowledgeable of various skills because I (idk about others) would like to focus on a skill and practice it thoroughly before moving to other skills.

[open ivy]

I think that social skills often beat technical skills once technical skills get good enough.

This is partly unfair, we want to program, not be salespersons.

It is also partly fair, as in a stronger culture really helps the performance and personal happiness. So it is not a bad thing to have.

[hollow oyster]

Yeah I suck at that social skills so i might be cooked

I guess its about tasting two foods to see which one is tastier for you

[fringe sphinx]

Generally I'd say: pick one language and get good at it. Good enough to tackle any small to medium sized project. It doesn't matter much which one.

But, within that language, do many different things.

[fringe sphinx]

Social skills doesn't mean being a sales person. It doesn't mean being very polished or precise in your communication. It means being willing to listen to other ideas, and share your ideas, respectfully and civilly

The bar is actually much lower than people think: being able to listen is probably 2/3rds of what ppl mean by social skills

[hollow oyster]

Wait is it?

[barren wing]

Goland after Python(Django) ?
I'm new to it but ive started Python and planning to go Django then Golang way. Any Experienced words on this ?

[hollow oyster]

I kinda fumble speech coz i get nervous

[zenith stream]

hello

[true lily]

ai/ml

[buoyant seal]

They have very little common in them, it is like the same as u declare u will eat today salad and tomorrow chicken
Though u can do the same with both of them as they are both general purpose languages.
Sure, do try both, but i am not exactly seeing what kind of words u expect to receive here. Ask more specific words to define what is your question

[barren wing]

More specifically, what language is more demanded nowadays for jobs for freshers or internships, i am kind of paranoid about getting a internship.

[buoyant seal]

Best answer: Find job hiring sites local to your country, which are able to respond with amount of query results number.
And try inputting there Python Backend, or Golang or other languages and u will the results.

if u are in a large country, it could be having large representation of Golang / Java / C# development.
In some countries like UK, amount of C# can be very large

In some countries it will be different story.
In average Golang is tending to be at this point of time being less represented (by around 3 times at least in my origin country) than other popular languages.

Smth like...
Javascript /Typescripts are probably most popular
Python is popular too, but its jobs have a lot of stuff not related to software development directly as it can be added to everything else on top, u would need searching specific job roles to see a better its representation
Java is popular all around language for backend/mobile android and desktop
Golang here is more new as mentioned and will be having less representation
Or even if u are interested in other languages/job roles, quering them too.

As fresher/intern u have chances pretty much hired only locally for 99%, so best check local hiring web sites to your country

in my country Java is popular as Javascript/Python pretty much
I heard about countries where Java is almost not existing or where entire market is full of dotnet dominated
U need to check your own specific country

[barren wing]

python has around 1000 freshers portal open

react has around 800 for freshers, though at senior there were more than python
go is 20, for senior positions its 100

[buoyant seal]

if u get Golang, usually for job market capturing purposes could be good idea to be into JVM world too (Java/Kotlin)
Java/Kotlin + Golang for example will make quite large market capture

• So... consider making bet not at a single language, but onto several ones (preferably the ones u like more to use)
• Check local hiring web sites for amount of vacancies
• Try to target for specific job roles potentially, getting skills/fluff of technologies related to them at some point
• try to learn Core software engineering subjects like being good with unit testing (book from Kent Beck about TDD is nice guide). that will help to boost your chances in any language/job role. Code Complete from mcConnel is very good too

[barren wing]

i see

python has more space but lot of them are more in ML sutff more senior level, react is good

[buoyant seal]

u could be wishing to explore also how other popular languages represented like Java/Kotlin and even Dotnet. those languages are sort of similar to Go
like... the reasoning is... may be there are plenty of js/react jobs, but satisfaction in them can be quite not good, as working with them tends to be quite frustrating experience due to limitations of a language and ecosystem.
Also js/react is tended to be too much targeted by people from online courses and without education

[barren wing]

fresher jobs/internships in my city/town.

[buoyant seal]

Any other languages / job roles as option? How much job roles for Java for example

[barren wing]

exactly, 99% people are after Js/react and its frustrating, i like python but not sure is it a good option or not as i know js and react decently but not enough

[barren wing]

i don't know java. but 699 fresher jobs in my state.

[buoyant seal]

how about dotnet / .Net (and separately checked C#. try both .Net and dotnet ) out of curiosity?

[barren wing]

there is no C# jobs.

[buoyant seal]

okay, but there is at least dotnet
U could be targeting then Java as having the most representation, and then pursuing Golang or Dotnet for example in a future

check Kotlin, it is part of a JVM ecosystem and similar to Java to the level being able to import its libraries so should be least learning curve gap between them
U could be picking both Java/Kotlin to capture more market

[barren wing]

most of the companies do not demand java interns, the ones who do they also ask kotlin and microservices which i don't know any of.

[buoyant seal]

microservices can be just translated to => learning doing web backend development

[barren wing]

thank you darkwind for you time, i have made my mind. there are plenty of fresher internships for almost every language in city and i chose the python/django/flask way because i really hate clumsy Js so going python way would be the best, rest other jobs/internships are kind of less than 20% of what react or django jobs are even php is there but go is really rare.

[buoyant seal]

good enough pick.
Try to enjoy Golang in pet projects as side stuff. it will be helpful to get at least python typing to more interstanding
or in general try to go beyond Python at some point

[barren wing]

i said im pretty new, i just know html, css, js(decently), react(beginner and left), linux, and learning python rn.

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
Make sure to learn unit testing / code quality stuff, that will help a lot to preserve sanity when working in any language

[barren wing]

alright man, thanks for the help. i'll look into it.

[buoyant seal]

The importance of learning unit testing is somewhere at the level:
People which prefer to maintain stuff for years could be seeing code without unit testing as garbage not meant to be maintained in the first place.
They take twice more importance in scripting languages like python because everything is checkable entirely at runtime only

unit test make an easy room to continue development smth due to app can be having many small entrypoints (through tests) for visual debug entering for example / serve as always up to date level of documentation to a proejct
A project below 1000 code line can survive without unit testing, but project with 100'000+ code lines can't

[barren wing]

necessity for scalable and maintainable software.

so static typing (like TypeScript, Rust, or MyPy for Python) reduces the need for unit tests?

[buoyant seal]

i believe that is more situation for Java/C#/Golang. Due to easily ensured 100% typing coverage, including all libraries having it.
And all devs 100% of the time adhering to it in those languages
Easy getting 100% benefits, as long as u don't abuse hashmaps too much

Typescript/Mypy-Pyright for python are gradual typing that have a problem of easy "Any" type propagation that disables them
And there is a problem that libraries not having types, or having badly working types (Django). support for types not always present
And library without typing becomes propagating Any, infecting any your code that is interacting with it. (which disable typing too)
It is a level of magnitude more tricky to use typing in languages like Python for this reason
And there is low amount of devs in Python/JS ecosystems which are able to understand usually how to use them in full capacity and actually willing to adhere in the first place. Problem to find projects/companies which even go to use it
So for Python/TS it is applied in least capacity but still yes in a well capacity if u will design code well (With typing approach / data structs in mind to communicate code movements from the start. Using Pydantic/Data structs instead of dictionaries/Any propagated objects from some Django ecosystem, stuff like that)

It is better than nothing i guess, but when u touch some Django Rest Framework code that is not having any code connections for typing to work, or uses its untyped framework internal objects to define code logic a lot, typing will not be very helpful a lot (pretty much will be very little difference between it being present or not)
On another code if u work in FastAPI/Django Ninja for example and designed things from a start to work with it, it could work well at a managable level
I noticed SQLAlchemy giving official support to typing in its recent versions as well (in comparison to Django ORM that is not having official typing support at all. Only as extra lib that tends to break)
TLDR: it is very incosistent how much u will be able to manage getting benefit from typing in scripting language that is not having it as enforced thing for 100% / having things designed with different level of support for it

===
We can add here that in languages like python it can be good idea to concentrate effort onto Unit testing / add error catching like sentry or smth with error alerts from staging.
All those methods give runtime checks and applyable always
The nature of python for Any thing being patchable/mockable at runtime, ensures everything can be made unit testable easier

[drifting minnow]

Might be best to relies on cover letter as your primary key for passing through the ATS...By copy/paste the job description to the grok's and have it convert into cover letter --- then of course, revise into less obvious...Good luck.

[woeful bone]

Hey, all, I'm looking for my next role, and I would love some feedback on my resume if you don't mind.

15 YoE
Staff Software Engineer OR Engineering Manager
Portland, OR, USA area

[barren wing]

yep, i read something on reddit says -

"HTMX is about not having to learn JS. Just writing my backend in Python or Go and using HTML/HTMX to make an interactive-enough page."

tbh, its me i don't wanna write JS that's it. Django is the way to GO!

[buoyant seal]

sort of yes, indeed htmx is about it and best decision to use in such way for your own pet projects if u need sprinkling your web stuff with client side interactivity
but keep it mind that backends are often used at as json input/output apis. Nice to have autogenerated swagger docs for when it is done, to simplify communications with frontenders

and regardless of htmx usage, it is still requiring from you well enough understanding of vanilla js to utilize correctly htmx. Head First Javascript book should prepare enough for that

[buoyant seal]

Django is the way to GO!
There is some awkwardness involved with Django Templating having big issues, preventing it being used nicely for Html/Htmx in full capacity. Besides lack of any typing and IDE support
It is also silently can be broken and not telling any errors. Data will be just not rendered. ( one of python members, boxed actually implemented integrations to django to fix it )
All those issues heavily decrease quality of a project if it is having plentiful amount of templating as its main part of a code
Golang on another hand with its Templ language works just awesome with Htmx 😏 https://github.com/a-h/templ
Templating language made actually with Html/Css in mind, awesome IDE support, directly go code usage in templates, full typing stuff
That ensures code scaling way better / way more easier maintained / way more easier rendering complex data structs of data
Regardless of those limitations, people spam a lot of stuff in Django / entire CMSes are made with it

[barren wing]

seems good, but i can have portfolio in django with no problem and i am not going to use it for any scalable websites but tiny projects for myself, maybe GO is way to go but i don't know im a little skeptical about it.

[buoyant seal]

Go is awesome 😏 Entire modern web infrastructure ecosystem of tools/services as this point made with it.
Infrastructure as a code with terraform https://registry.terraform.io/browse/providers?category=platform
Monitoring systems https://grafana.com/about/grafana-stack/
Docker https://www.docker.com/
Kubernetes https://kubernetes.io/
And gazilion of other projects https://github.com/avelino/awesome-go. You find some infra related like Self hosted Git with CI/GUI Gitea? https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea yet again will be in go
Also pretty first level support for such futuristic stuff like simplified communications with grpc https://grpc.io/ between services
That alone drives its ecosystem/mature miles forward, and makes is a good pick if u develop projects within specific domains like that

[near ocean]

Are you literally selling rug pull advice? <@&831776746206265384>

[buoyant tide]

!cban 937671433302188043 judging by your messages and the profile, you're only here to advertise

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @thin prawn permanently.

[buoyant tide]

services not advice, seems like

[thorn goblet]

This is actually very important, thank you for pointing that out!

[thorn goblet]

All for a single job! it's very important to me to make this pivot as cyber is saturated to hell with scam jobs, cs students, etc. I like scripting, I like automation, I think I'd genuinely enjoy devops. The position was my old friends, so I got some insight into it. Just wanted to make sure I put my best foot forward!

[woeful bone]

I've been self-educating with Go since the fall. Do you have any recs as far as personal projects that would show good fundamentals?

[inland mantle]

i am a programming noob

i want to start learning programming , it's fundamentals

so is python a good step for me

fyi i am still in school for the next 2 years

[pine sleet]

yeah

[inland mantle]

i started learning c++ a few years ago

but i failed so bad that i quit programming

[dusk lantern]

Does anybody know of any awards/certificates UK registered like an a-level or btec or t-level taht is specifically for just coding that I can basically just sit the exam for if i'm already comfortable with coding?

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
I even wrote literally article on this topic due to how often this question araises in this server 😏

[buoyant seal]

do read and see if u have any other ideas u wish to implement considering the recommendations.
Otherwise i have overwhemling backlog of open source stuff to implement in golang for space simulator freelancer community. feel free to take part if desired in it
https://discoverygc.com/
I have my personal discord to communicate on this topic. Community has its own discords too.
And keeping track of what to do through Github issues and kanban

[woeful bone]

can you point me at the github repo?

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/pet_projects.html#Freelancercommunity
Projects i do for them.
Main backlog is for web app https://github.com/darklab8/fl-darkstat
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=187294&pid=2223107#pid2223107 project presentation
And plenty of feedback for recent cool feature i got in https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=206319

opened feature requests/bugs to fix https://github.com/darklab8/fl-darkstat/issues
my kanban of plans what actually to implement out of it
https://github.com/orgs/darklab8/projects/1

At this point this darkstat project is kind of everything at the same time.
Static Site Generator
API json and grpc ones
Backend when working locally / in dev server mod.
It is able to switch between Static Site Generator / Backend way to run without any code logic changes at this point of time pretty much almost

Tool for game data navigation via web site
Ahead of me online navmap implementation in addition

[woeful bone]

I'll take a look

I have kinda a lot of plates spinning right now:

• updating resume (seems perpetual)
• applying for jobs
• shaking down contacts
• working on personal projects

[buoyant seal]

Take your time. the projects i have are for multi years support. for around 10-20 years of running 😏
They will remain around
Discord bot from it runs for 3 years at this point. only 1.5 year as golang version though
Darkstat is more recent one, around only a year. Idea what to implement appeared 3 years ago though and community tried implementing similar thing in the past without success
it is a long living mission of reprocessing all tools and шdeas the gaming community has / or already tried implementing but became missmaintained or smth

[proud glacier]

this is a great article, thank you for writing it. I'll keep it handy to link to other people.

[analog sun]

@soft needle your message was removed for violating rule 6

[soft needle]

thanks

[vapid jay]

So i graduated like mid January. Thats when i got my result. And now its march. I am trying to learn as much as i can. But how long is it normal to not get job as fresher. Is 6 months ok to keep studying n trying. Caz after 6 months if i still dont get job i think um not cut out for it

How long did u take to get ur first job as fresher?

[white relic]

what kind of program did you graduate from?

many people spend longer than 6 months job hunting. it's highly dependent on local conditions and your specific circumstances

many of my classmates had jobs upon graduation, but I didn't get one until almost... uh, 8 months later? but I didn't major in CS, and that was years ago

[vapid jay]

Computer science and engineering

[white relic]

Bachelor's degree?

and you just started looking for jobs?

There are seasonal hiring trends, it can be easier to get jobs at different times of year.
Those also vary regionally, and by industry

[fringe sphinx]

Also, if you can't land a SWE job right away, look at related jobs, like QA. It's good relevant experience

[vapid jay]

Yes

[vapid jay]

Yes. I also dont feel like i tick all or most of the boxes in the job requirements

[vapid jay]

Okay.

I feel like i dont apply caz i dont tick most of the requirements boxes

[white relic]

Can you give some examples? Maybe you are looking at job openings that are beyond you for now.

If not, you could spend some time studying those things, so you feel more comfortable ticking the boxes.

[vapid jay]

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/4142634746

Like this job for example. They already want AWS CI CD Devops stuff for junior post. I dont even have minimum working experience in any place how can jump into that or know them. Idk if i should even apply caz i dont want to get harassed in interviews

[vapid jay]

For this job post i need not only study python dsa and vackend dev stuff but also a lil bit devops stuff aws and all yk

[dusk lantern]

??

[somber condor]

what is a fast and efficient MySQL Library I am revamping one of my discord bots and would like to make it as efficient as possible

[white relic]

Are you doing anything to expand your skills in those areas, like making projects?
MongoDB is easy to get started with and is free (with low capacity, obviously) for practice / personal project use.
AWS has a free trial thing, too, I think, but I haven't used it.

Also, in general, not everyone who applies to a job necessarily ticks all the boxes. It's not a bad idea to aim a little high; people may take a chance on you.

As long as you're not applying to jobs you're grossly underqualified for, which is just a waste of time.

[vapid jay]

I am tryung to get into projects. Started with some basics. Learning fastapi rn. Because i want to learn to do login of different kinds. Today i learned about cryptography. Trying to think of places to use it. It was mainly for password management projects. And learning fastapi so i can started doing backend dev to showcase that i can scale and all accordung to those job descriptions

[vapid jay]

I don't feel qualified enough for anything honestly. Just overwhelmed with everything.

[sinful wren]

i want a way to practise python

like in a practical sense, since i already study and sometimes make silly little projects of what i learn

[open ivy]

Speaking of projects, I am working on physics engines because that is my best skill+interest. I am writing the algorithm very differently than what I have seen before, which makes more an exploration.

I do wonder who else has niche interests out there?

[glass osprey]

That’s half the fun of personal projects tbh I’ve got a variety of niche projects just because I like to try to improve stuff

[brazen apex]

How much does domain knowledge matter? I am thinking a lot.

[peak halo]

for what?

[summer peak]

how would I market this to large enterprises/educational insitutions. https://sites.google.com/view/whoswhoaidirectory

also if anyone wants to be a business partner/start-up partner lmk

[lament cape]

hi, if I want to land a devops career, would it be wise to begin with full stack/web apps whilst implementing devops strategies and then move onto a devops career?

[fringe sphinx]

A broad foundation is the way to go, so yes, learning DevOps skills is a good idea regardless of your path.

[lament cape]

Nice, so I think I'll focus my time on Python/html/css/js/bash scripting/docker to build web apps

thank you!

[buoyant seal]

Very good idea. i would also advice concentrating more on a backend part may be
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
And learning coding it with quality
Frontend is known to be more problematic to code in any quality / way more rarely having proper software development

[summer peak]

anyone wanna be a start up partner hmu

[lament cape]

thank you so much, I appreciate YOU!

[silent sparrow]

anyone wanna listen along on spotify ?

[modest kraken]

First you probably want a demo and move it off of Google sites

[chilly tangle]

hey

[summer peak]

I made a demo for it, and as for the Google Sites, I was required to do that by my uni for a digital marketing module. Thank you for the feedback tho

[sour iron]

But you're targeting institutes other than your University, right? In that case, google sites is definitely going to affect negatively

[chilly tangle]

Hey, I have an interview for a Python developer position. Can you help me with tips for successfully preparing for the interview?

[fringe sphinx]

My main tip is: first - read your resume and be prepared for the obvious questions. "Tell me what you did at Job #1", "How did you test your code", etc.

second - also prepare for the generic questions like "tell me about yourself" and "tell me about a time you had to overcome a tough challenge"

Read some recent articles... maybe about "uv" or other interesting & current topics in Python-land. I think https://www.youtube.com/arjancodes publishes some great content.

[summer peak]

yh ik the Google sites is just for the coursework. tbh never even heard abt google sites until this module

I'm going to meet some founders at some event in a few days to showcase the project so far thatll prolly be better than anaything google sites has to offer

[slender crypt]

hi chat

[true harness]

is this your resume ?

[pine sleet]

feels a bit sparse

probably wouldn't hurt to add some content

[quartz aspen]

This is not recruitment board, "looking for a job" posts are not appropriate here.
I'd recommend actually looking at various resume templates instead of filling some first one you found that doesn't even include education fields (which are needed if you don't have prior experience).
Also, you posted your private info for almost 400k random users to see.

[red lotus]

I'm a little late, but just chiming in. I'm new to coding and am just trying to expand my skills but I work in graphic design. I felt extremely under qualified for my current job i've had for a couple years now and turns out when I got there I was acutally teaching some of their vets some new things.. Just take a shot a believe in yourself, as corny as it may sound.

[lethal mountain]

Sorry to say but this is one of the worst resumes I have ever seen and the lack of experience is not the main problem. Start from the drawing board and think of what is important to the people who see your resume

[deft herald]

Also I'm sorry to say but you're going to have an extremely difficult time getting a developer job at age 15

[vapid jay]

Thank you so much for this. I am doing better lil by lil and hopefully will get a nice job soon.

[paper lotus]

Hi guys . I want to start learning programming languages . I'm in high school right now and I'm 16. Where do I start can someone give me a roadmap please.

[rich topaz]

ok tnx u for ur Guidance

[rich topaz]

Yes, I know, but I did my academic training and I'm working on portfolio projects and I hope to find a job somewhere, either on a project basis or part-time, and I'll still continue to study to learn.

[rich topaz]

Yes, you are right, thanks for your help and advice.

[vapid jay]

Hi guys . I want to start learning programming languages . I'm in high school right now and I'm 16. Where do I start can someone give me a roadmap please.

[vapid jay]

@peak halo can you guide me please?

[true lily]

choose a language and start coding

[peak halo]

why me?
I'm just this guy, you know?

[paper lotus]

[paper lotus]

How about python?

[rich topaz]

I say some plan in ur dm,check dm

[true lily]

its good

[rich topaz]

It depends on the basin you want to operate in.
But I think it's the best language to start learning concepts.

[true lily]

i code in python

[peak halo]

if you're in high school, and you want to get a job as a programmer, the most important thing you can do is prepare to get into a computer science program at a university. so for the moment, you should actually be focusing on your math classes more than programming.

[paper lotus]

@vapid jay go and study maths

[quartz aspen]

Why did you literally copy someone else's message?

[paper lotus]

She's my friend that's why we have the same query

[vapid jay]

Umm actually she’s my friend irl

[quartz aspen]

Copying exactly the same message is sus. Looked more like bot.

!resources beginner

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[rich topaz]

Can I send some ai to help them?or link is Forbidden?
and show them roadmap?

@quartz aspen

[vapid jay]

Thank you so much!!

[quartz aspen]

!rule 10 ai answers are not permitted, links to resources are fine, but I'd advise you post them publicly rather than dm (no one can comment whether they know the resource you sent, and we actually had people sending malware in dms before, so...)

[inner wren]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[valid oxide]

Hey everyone, I hope you're doing well. I've been working as a backend developer for a year now, and at 19, I'm considering transitioning into AI/ML. I’d love to know how realistic it is to secure a job at a FAANG company as a self-taught developer.

[fringe sphinx]

Honestly? Not very. You're competing against 22 year olds with college degrees, practice, internships, etc. Everybody applies to the big companies. With a few YoE, you'll be in a better position.

However, it really doesn't matter. Keep learning, and keep gaining experience. And keep applying to jobs you want. And, network: you'll probably get your next job through someone you know

[violet spire]

So you got backend developer job by just self studying?

[valid oxide]

Yes in a local company

[violet spire]

How did you applied for job after self studying?Like no placements right because no college

[valid oxide]

Okay I get the point, I am ready to dedicate 8 years if possible, I will like to know if a degree is a must

[violet spire]

And how are you sure the next step you are taking is right by self studying without any experienced person guidance

[valid oxide]

Just cooked a portfolio full of funny projects and a got in

[violet spire]

So you applied for jobs from job websites..which ones

[valid oxide]

I just explore stuffs

[fringe sphinx]

You can make it without a degree, but some doors will be closed.

[valid oxide]

It wasn't through a website. The company announced that they have a position and I just emailed them and gave with all my stuffs

[violet spire]

Where did they announced?

[valid oxide]

Okay thank you

[valid oxide]

I received the news from a friend

[violet spire]

Still from where did he find it

Platform?

[valid oxide]

don't remember well

But I guess linkedIn

[fleet oar]

What does engineering do? (like electrical engineering)

[potent prism]

Hi Guys, need career advice. Currently on Application Support role want to transition to Python Developer. Now I'm doing automation as much as I can at work to improve programming. If I want to transition myself to Backend Python, do you think it would be a good idea to now jump to Flask?

[peak halo]

Jobs in AI/ML are more degree-requiring than other branches of programming. Is there a way that you can start getting AI/ML experience with the job you currently have?

[valid oxide]

Yes, I think I can get some experiences while working there

Can that replace a degree?

[white relic]

Engineering is about making things do useful work.
So you have electrical engineering, which is about making electrical circuits work and do useful things (like talk to space or mine bitcoin). Then there's mechanical engineering, which is about making mechanical systems work and do useful things. Software engineering is about making software do useful work. And you have vaguer areas like civil engineering and industrial engineering, which aren't about how the system works but what it does - people who make cities and factories work.

[fleet oar]

Thank you very much

[peak halo]

Nothing can replace a degree, but the more experience you get, the less likely employers are to care that you don't have one.

My company requires applications to have a degree, full stop.

[sand horizon]

can i get some feedback please

i would like to apply for a masters in data science, i am based in EU, this is my cv so far.

[valid oxide]

Okay thank you

[open ivy]

It's all to easy to do doom and gloom with jobs and financial security.

But that is wasteful. Even if poverty was likely in one's future one should not spend excessive time dwelling about the downsides. Instead, they should keep going on their personal passion projects and reaching out to other tech geeks to talk with, make new friends, etc. Because doing so better minimizes the chance they end up destitute as well as increasing a sense of purpose.

It can be very hard to break past this negativity. Thankfully humans are good with mentally handling aging: taking care of health the best one can is important even though it is ultimately doomed to fail. How do they do so and how can such mental tricks be applied to networking?

[pine sleet]

sounds like over analyzing

just talk to people who you think are cool

[wheat star]

"Hi, I'm looking for some guidance on how to progress in my coding journey. Could you please suggest the next steps I should take and which technologies I should focus on learning? Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!"

[open ivy]

Unfortunately "going with the flow" veers me off course. So I need to analyze what is going on.

In terms of finding "cool people", are there any venues you recommend to meet people? Libraries and cafes are hit-and-miss but work OK, I wonder what else is out there?

[fleet reef]

!rule ad paid

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

You post has been removed. Do not post ads on this server.

[rugged axle]

I have added a normal mode on website wdy guys think ? https://x1vi.github.io/my-website/

[buoyant seal]

i would say normal mode is still not normal enough for regular mortals to navigate it 😏
There is also Fonting/Spaces problems. Hard to separate blocks of texts from each other

• I can offer as alternative normal mode actually having menu with content being in separate pages https://darklab8.github.io/blog/pet_projects.html
• having big enough fonts for it being easy readable
• having soft enough difference between font and background colors for not hurting eyes (Don't make it Too much constrast/opposite to each other. Soften it out, like we have Discord that has white on grayish background. it makes easy for eyes to see it) (accordingly if u make Black on White, don't make super white, make it grayed enough to not hurt eyes)
• good separation between blocks of texts for better grasping structure of a page/texts

[woeful bone]

My resume is now a page on github pages. Feedback appreciated!! https://dusktreader.github.io/cv/

[open ivy]

I do like these fun cool uniques websites.

But I am a social outcast so am unlikely to actually make decisions that affect hiring processes much.

Maybe it is better used as a "creative person detector" instead? I don't know what hiring people actually think.

[buoyant seal]

i am fan of creativity, but in this particular case... it is more childishness / with lack of effort to make it any readable for the mode that is supposed to be normal/readable 😏

I am all for making things like linux terminal otherwise

[buoyant seal]

it is hilarious opposite how much this one is highly very readable resume instead, even with provided PDF to download.
I can object only to font sizes being too small on it

[vernal rivet]

How long does it take to learn all these?

[open ivy]

Can you link to a website that you think is colorful and creative but not in a "childish" way?

Many people called me childish, so it may also help me.

[woeful bone]

I get the small font size, but it has to be that small to all fit on a single printed page 😭

Trust me, this version is waaaay more pared down than it used to be, so I don't know how much more I could cut it back.

[buoyant seal]

https://soatok.blog/b/ This one is very creative and screams of professionalism at the same time (just enough to read article names/their content stuff). Pretty famous to be fair

[open ivy]

Thanks!

[woeful bone]

Well, I've been in software development for 15 years, 4 years of college before that, and then a few years self-teaching as a teenager

[vernal rivet]

Well I am currently doing my ug cse , in a year I will be attending placement interviews , what are the things that should know before attending an interview (technical and non technical)

[buoyant seal]

Can't win them all 😄
still, i would suggest using "Chrome" dev tools to see how your web site looks on different screen sizes

CSS has special media switches between how page is "Printed" (for your pdf)
And how it looks for different screen sizes
I believe there is a room for improvement to adjust it being looking good at moderately modern desktop 23 inches screens at least (Some people have significantly larger than that screens)

You probably calibrated it for laptop small screen sizes only

[woeful bone]

Yeah, there's still some layout stuff I should probably do. Still, as a backend (mostly) dude, I feel like it's a good start

[woeful bone]

As for the print and media css controls, I've been dialing them in... as I said, still some work to do

[buoyant seal]

Actually site looks easily "zoomable" in, then fonts are ok 😏

[rugged axle]

thanks a lot this advice was really helpful please take a look now https://x1vi.github.io/my-website/

[buoyant seal]

u have it now too much blending dark whitish in with green. i suggest smth more like:
#101114 external background
#1c2223 internal background

Least impact onto my eyes, while having dark theme
Even works with your green fonting more or less

There could be made some room of improvements to font too though may be, but already a good start

[rugged axle]

ok i have changed the theme again

[buoyant seal]

Nice. now the page is readable

[rugged axle]

see i told u i was the choosen one 😉

[buoyant seal]

awarded with achievement "Subject is able to communicate in receiving mode" 😏 🏅

[icy scarab]

Columbia student creates AI tool to easily land offers from Amazon Meta…
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hardik-godha-website-webdeveloper-websitedeveloper-merndeveloper-synquic-mernstack_columbia-student-creates-ai-tool-to-easily-activity-7302184542394556417-I_-v

[warm perch]

@velvet igloo

[stiff briar]

should i go to uni abroad or in my country

[sand horizon]

abroad

[white relic]

you should go somewhere you can afford, and preferably in the country you want to eventually work, if that's different from where you live now.

[near rapids]

Can someone explain to me how anyone just learning Python is not going to be going against super ai when trying to land a job?? 🤖

Like just starting out

[white relic]

There's really nothing on the market now or looming on the horizon that I could call "super AI". Certainly nothing that can replace a whole software engineer.

But it's true that "just" Python isn't enough to ensure a job, and also that learning to use AI is an increasingly relevant skill. Be aware of it, but learn to look past the hype.

[waxen shuttle]

Can anyone give me some tips on my resume ?

here would love to know your thoughts and suggestions for improvements

[fervent spoke]

Hey bro I wanted to ask how did you get your proposal accepted for GSOC?

[silent jacinth]

does anyone here want to volunteer to help develop a game. we would need to put you in a groupchat for a interveiw

[quartz aspen]

!rule ad This is not recruitment chat

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[dense mica]

• Education seems good
• Under experience, try and make your bullet points more quantitative/concrete (ie "fixed bugs" could be phrased better by stating the impact of those fixes ie you increased profits by 1000x or whatever, similarly with exception handling, so on. Like can you quantify or make concrete how you actually improved the user experience?)
• Your projects are good but are very geared towards ML, do you want to do ML/datasci or SWE?
• Technical skills section probably fine
• Open source contributions can be rephrased or removed - it is trivial. "Filed a feature request" and "reported a bug" can be deleted from your resume, unless you rephrase it in a way that makes it seem less trivial to your interviewer

[lime axle]

Hey, I just dived into python. I am learning it, however I want to apply it to secure what I learned. Do you have any suggestions on how I can do this? I can volunteer to help anyone on a project.

[random bane]

can someone mute/deafen/move/disconnect someone with higher role in a discord server?

[peak halo]

seems like a question for #discord-bots

[random bane]

its about discord permissions

[peak halo]

sure, but it's definitely not about careers.

[random bane]

ok ok

[latent drum]

I've recently noticed a wave in the tech world, particularly with the AI future implications.

Andre Karpathy, a (computer scientist) has introduced “Vibe coding”, which eliminates traditional coding and utilizes tools like (Cursor AI or Whisper AI) to build software.

if anyone can shed light on the long-term impact of this change.
As a newcomer to development, should I focus on learning coding languages like Python, etc or prioritize mastering powerful AI tools?

What career path should I consider and what skills should I acquire ??

[pine sleet]

ai can be a great tool and you should figure out when you should use it and when you shouldn't

[fringe sphinx]

Did you read the full quote? He's not saying it's a good way to develop... it's just useful for side quests, as others have talked about.

It's certainly true... sometimes the tools are good for easy / unimportant / side questy stuff that you could google the answer to. That's an example of a tool making easy stuff easier. Software engineering / programming really isn't about the easy stuff.

[fringe sphinx]

Learning coding... and doing the stuff Andrej is talking about... is the beginner phase of learning programming. You should learn it, and you shouldn't use AI as a beginner. Once you've moved onto larger problems/projects, using AI selectively (like Andrej is suggesting) is a useful tool. But, if you rely on AI as a beginner, you'll never get to the next level.

[latent drum]

I follow Y Combinators, I saw that video.

[hybrid vale]

if ur new i would avoid ai as much as possible

[chrome blaze]

why?

[latent drum]

I'm new, so what would be a good pathway?

[fringe sphinx]

If you're a beginner, you need to learn the basics. The basics require being able to solve problems on your own... because the problems get a lot harder as you progress.

Using AI to solve problems as a beginner is missing the point: the goal of a beginner is to "get good", not "solve problems". At best (assuming AI is giving good answers), it's like using a calculator when you're learning basic arithmetic... or going to the gym and having a friend lift your weights.

[fringe sphinx]

Pick a beginner tutorial, #python-discussion message, learn some of the basics and do small projects to build the skills. Just like you'd learn a new sport, or language. Learn a little, do a little, learn a little more, etc.

[latent drum]

I initially studied CS but dropped out. My focus was solely on Amazon and earning money, so I didn't realize the importance of formal education at that time.
I've been doing “Amazon PL” for around 5 years. After some loses now I drop my work, but still do this part-time service just for survival but not plan to stick on this path .

Now I decided to learn new skill to build a career around that skill which has long-term growth and requires proper qualifications.

I want to move forward and see a future in the field of “AI-agent”services. I want to develop my skills in this area so I can learn and offer these services.

Now I am new here and want to a "zero to hero" pathway to understand this field thoroughly.

[fringe sphinx]

What's amazon pl?

[latent drum]

I am not interested in this .. I do around 5years but now I realise I need to move forward and pick a skill that will be most beneficial in the future.

It’s a e-commerce platform where sellers make there stores and sells there product all over the world

Give me a experienced advice where should I started programming so I can easily understand AI/ML

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to be a software engineer, you have to start with learning programming. Learning programming requires starting with the basics, and practicing. No different than any life skill. AI tools come later.

See #python-discussion message for tutorials you can choose from

[latent drum]

Noted

[fringe sphinx]

Don't over think it. Just get a tutorial, and start. When you get stuck, ask questions in #python-discussion .

[latent drum]

Should I pursue a “software engineering degree” or follow a mentor, like taking Google courses or Coursera courses? Tutorials?

[latent drum]

Noted

[fringe sphinx]

A degree unlocks the most opportunities. A tutorial is good to just learn the basics.

[pine sleet]

computer science degree would be ideal

[latent drum]

For longterm degree is good enough?

[fringe sphinx]

A degree is the normal first step in a SWE career.

[fringe sphinx]

If you don't get a degree, the alternative is to seek jobs in adjacent jobs, like QA or Tech Support... jobs that get you tech industry experience.

[latent drum]

Noted

[latent drum]

Great .. I really appreciate your advise ..
I'll apply for admission then …

I'll continue to improve my skills by following mentors and learning from online resources.

Can you suggest a good website for developers where a beginner can learn quickly?

[fringe sphinx]

See the link above. That gives you everything you need to get started.

[latent drum]

Ok 👍🏻

[open ivy]

SIGGRAPH is up my alley. Besides the conference itself, are there any meetups near BART? It would be a nice networking opportunity.

[buoyant steeple]

Anyone to teach me Python? Please

[waxen shuttle]

Thank you @dense mica 😊 for suggesting me these improvements.
You suggested valid points, I am looking for SWE roles.
So should I remove those ML projects that I have worked on ? and add full stack projects ?
I thought by adding both ML and full stack projects I am showcasing the recruiter that I am good with both and can integrate ai/ml stuff to web apps

[waxen shuttle]

Contributions. Definite proper planning on proposal

[hybrid vale]

if ur gonna put ml projects on their i'd prob try to get somemetrics

[waxen shuttle]

fair point so I'll mention metrics as well, Thank you 😇

[fast fossil]

what does "good classification accuracy" mean exactly? 60%? 70%? 80%? 90%? 95%?

[waxen shuttle]

actually the accuracy wasn't that great so I kept it like this

[fast fossil]

that was my suspicion, but if I were asking you questions in an interview, this is exactly the kind of question I'd ask probably (that said, I've never interviewed anyone, so... just picking at what seems off to me) and I'm not sure how well that reflects on you for hiding that, but yeah
EDIT: to offer some sort of a solution, I suppose you could frame it as research instead

also, did the 5 APIs boost test coverage on their own (are they tests APIs?)? or are you just saying that you wrote tests for what you implemented 😁

[waxen shuttle]

No those 5 API did not boost the test coverage they are added as feature
I have written tests cases to boost the code coverage of the whole code base

[fast fossil]

I mean, I don't think framing it how you have is a bad idea, the numbers look cool, it's just my interpretation of what is said there is that, you implemented some features and then wrote tests for them (so of course that would increase test coverage on average) (but like, it's sort of an expectation from my point of view to generally write tests for features, but I think you can probably leave it in as is anyway)

[waxen shuttle]

I understand but clarity is important, I added in a separate bullet points about this

[faint igloo]

Guys I getting stuck at machine learning engineer, and I want to do T-Shaped so do you have any suggestion for the skills or other specializations for me to learn?

[dense mica]

I’d still add a bit of both, but as a hint, reading your resume I thought you were going for ML roles

Btw

[waxen shuttle]

updated for SWE

[dense mica]

When you write a resume bare in mind that recruiters read it for about 30 seconds so it needs to be ultra clear and have impactful bullet points that are easy to parse

[dense mica]

Yeah I like it more now your open source section is a lot better

Why our education at the bottom? By convention it goes at the top (whilst youre still at school)

[dense mica]

Your experience bullet points under Google summer of code are massively improved

Wow good job lol it’s so much better

[waxen shuttle]

Thank you, updated

[deft crag]

🥳🥳

[ember hamlet]

Are there django junior roles in London anymore or are they just non existent? What would one have to do to a role as a self learner?

[quaint shuttle]

hello

[near ocean]

You'd need a great deal of luck, connections, projects on your CV

[vital drum]

Windows Vista here.

[near ocean]

Emphasis on the great deal of luck, London is home to a number of good unis, if youre competing against imperial, ucl, kings people you'd basically have no chance without insider help

[drifting night]

a yo

[rugged axle]

Okay I have polished it more how is it looking ? https://x1vi.github.io/my-website/

[near ocean]

Do you also have a CV? Doubt a recruiter would bother with something like that

[rugged axle]

of course I send the CV but I cannot add all my hobbies including the misc ones so I added them on here

[near ocean]

Hobbies probably shouldn't go on your CV anyway

[balmy mural]

Interestingly, including hobbies on your CV is pretty common in the Netherlands

[rugged axle]

thats y i made this

[tacit spruce]

hola

[ember hamlet]

Any other alternatives I should consider?

[near ocean]

Getting a degree?

[ember hamlet]

Currently a bit difficult. But definitely a good shout.

[spice marten]

Hello!

I want to learn python coding. Can anyone help me on #1035199133436354600 in my post please? 🥺 🙏🏻

[violet willow]

Hello, I wanted to ask. Is it a good idea for me to start learning Python as a way to make money? I've just finished school recently and I was wondering if it's something worthwhile.

[near ocean]

It is very unlikely that you'll be able to make actual money freelancing with Python or any other language

Go to university for computer science and get a job the usual way

[pine sleet]

learning Python is good, it alone won’t land you a job though

[eternal cloud]

It’s definitely possible to learn Python and earn money while doing it. It’s just like anything in life, you get out of it, what you put into it. With that being said, you’ll want to ensure that you take the time to FULLY learn the language and build a strong portfolio showcasing your skills. I hope this helps. You got this!

[vapid jay]

guys, i started learning python a few days ago and currently im still a beggiener like i know the begining stuff like classes,functions,dictionaries,lists,strings but i got gamemaker engine and i wanted to ask if i need to learn gml or i can code in python and make a game ussing that engine or do i have to learn gml

[south tree]

I think you can just code in python on any game engine that supports it, not entirely sure

[vapid jay]

does gamemaker support python?

[south tree]

no

you have to like, create a GML interface and then use that interface inorder to use python (i worded it so wrong one sec)

you have to interface the GML with Python or any other coding language by using an external library or a DLL inorder to use them

[dense mica]

python + statistics = money
python + cpp + statistics = more money

[unkempt coral]

This is great

[dense mica]

but don't learn choose a degree just because you want money

[vapid jay]

oh say more

[knotty solstice]

Haven't interviewed in a while, what are people using for interview mocks now? just find others that are prepping or is there a course etc?

[toxic citrus]

I'd use ChatGPT or such.

[formal oriole]

can you elaborate on how cpp makes you more money?

[pine sleet]

there are companies whose codebases you're assigned to are in C++

oh i misread the "more"

nvm

[summer roost]

the answer is basically the same, though

being able to do more types of work exposes you to more job opportunities

[balmy spade]

Look at the pinned messages in #cybersecurity . You'll find quite a few resources.

[quiet cobalt]

Hi

[meager prairie]

Not sure where to ask, howcome a simple python file with a print compiled to exe is 8mb? I feel like its a bit much

[proud glacier]

Ask in #python-discussion

[dense mica]

I think knowing one high level language and one low level systems language is good and gives you a very broad knowledge base

[cedar nymph]

People who are hiring experienced developers, what things in the "about me" section in a resume would help you make a favorable decision on the candidate?

I have a github repo that has some popularity and has been starred by senior devs at Uber as well as a researcher at NASA, so I was thinking of including that, but not sure how.

[final ravine]

What's in the repo?

[cedar nymph]

It's a RAG application analyzing real estate with LangChain connected to a SQL database, and other external APIs @final ravine

[final ravine]

Ah python application, and it needs lots of setup like API keys?

Hmm that's tricky, I was going to suggest listing projects you've contributed to and projects you've created in a nearby space

[vapid jay]

Thankyou!

[cedar nymph]

Hm it needs like 2 API keys as environment variables. Not sure how that would affect anything though

https://github.com/GGyll/condo_gpt
Here's the repo

[final ravine]

What spaces do you have on your CV?

[wise musk]

hi guys

[vapid jay]

Hii

[feral vessel]

Beep

[crisp plinth]

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77
like if you follow this it means that very few people can pay it of in 20~ years, unless they do HEAVY savings

[feral vessel]

!rule ad

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[analog sun]

@main bough your message was removed for violating the server rules

[feral vessel]

Yeah, that's the rub.
From the same site: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76.&nbsp
I'm trying to understand if this is cost over the total time of attendance or annual 🤔

total cost of attendance for first-time, full-time
Probably one year, then

[crisp plinth]

pff sounds ruff

[feral vessel]

Suppose you keep costs down by going to a public school, and the loan you take out is typically a specific kind of student loan backed by the federal government (which is why talk about student loan forgiveness kept coming up under Biden's term that ended on Jan 20 this year), so they have repayment that can be a percentage of your actual income, not a fixed amount.

It's rough stuff, for sure, but still somewhat manageable?

I'm on the side of wanting fewer people to actually seek degrees in the first place, I don't think they're a top priority these days compared to 30 years ago. And bachelor's programs ought to be subsidized by taxpayers anyway.

[vivid bane]

I am not really sure if that's possible but I heard ppl could do side courses to get points and speed up their bachelor's degree because they already know career resulting in cutting cost. I wonder if I could do the same

[feral vessel]

It is possible to, say, go to a cheaper institution like a community college, take courses, and transfer credits.
It's very subjective, though. The place you want to transfer to has to accept the credits, it's entirely up to them if they decide the other institution you attended is credible or the course covers the same prerequities, etc.

Plus there's incentive for them to deny it, since now you'd have to pay them more money to take more classes.

For my taste, there's a really big if, which is if you think the degree is worth the time and money for the career you're seeking.

[vivid bane]

oh well

it's just boring learning something that you already know

[true harness]

federal loans don't accrue interest until after you graduate, so it's actually quite good

[full plume]

said to chat gpt be a debian termnial

[feral vessel]

!rule ai /s

[vivid bane]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[full plume]

sowwy

i hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me

[vivid bane]

it's not a big deal, dw abt it

[full plume]

please forgive me for i have sinned

[vivid bane]

troll

[full plume]

im jk

[white relic]

be careful about conflating "average salary across everybody" with "what salary I, an individual, can expect to make".

[hybrid vale]

also p low interest in general

[vivid bane]

well nice to know

[hybrid vale]

doesnt this depend on which industry u work in tho? i feel like if u work in tech u can pay it off p quickly
was able to pay off all my student debt and car loans w tech signing bonus

[white relic]

if you want to be a software engineer, the competition is stiff. A degree opens doors. If you get the degree, you'll likely have a job. If you don't get the degree, you'll likely have to deal with a job you don't want.

[hybrid vale]

no degree is basically gg in this job market

[cedar nymph]

I have an about section that is 2 sentences literally "Full stack developer with 5+ years of experience in developing real estate software. Developed SaaS platform
with Django and React achieving $2,125/month in revenue."

Then Experience, Education, Skills (Tech stack, tools, spoken languages etc.)

[agile steppe]

Anyone who's managed to find a mentor, how did you manage to do so? I've been in software for 10+ years, and spent the last 5 as a "senior" engineer. Over the last year or two, I've begun to think I may not be meant for staff+ ic roles, and maybe I should be going towards leadership, but finding jobs that will give me the chance to lead projects/people has always failed (company doesn't grow, leadership changes, etc). I feel like a lotta people say they found someone basically took them under their wing and helped them progress in their careers, and I haven't figured out how. Is it more luck/happenstance, and it just hasn't come for me?

[open ivy]

Once you start talking about getting other people to work for you, you are entering territory that is very much a social and political game and less about technical prowess.

This is a combination of luck and social skills.

Of all skills, social skills are the most seaturtle-esque I have ever seen by a long shot. Sea turtles partake in sophisticated nest-building and egg-laying behavior and have not clue why they are doing so. Similarly, people with charm rarely know how they do it. When you ask them, they say "it's natural", "go with the flow", "don't try too hard", "don't overthink things", and other please turn down your brain messages.

Thankfully, these charming people are still human and humans are one of not-that-many animal species capable of self-introspection (maybe an Orca is even better?). So a few people who are charmers have taken the time to explore this skill and can have advice. If anything, that makes them even better leaders because combining instinct with an actual understanding of what is going is a very strong combination. And yes just as a sea turtle can be tricked by artificial light, humans without this introspection can and do get tricked by artificial faces.

For me, being a boss is not a currently active goal. I would accept it and learn it if it it landed in my lap but am not actively seeking it. Computers make much more willing servants than humans.

[pine sleet]

i don't know if that answers OP's question

[agile steppe]

I think one of my big problems is I don't know if I should keep going or try to change. I haven't yet had a job where my internal goals have panned out, and after 5-6 positions, I don't know if it's me or it's bad luck. Maybe I'd be a great IC, but lack some knowledge I can shore up via books/tutorials. Or maybe I'm an ok engineer, but good at something else adjacent (and don't know what that is). The fact that with all my experience and background I haven't been able to find a job in over a year makes me doubly think if it's me.

[open ivy]

I would recommend a hybrid social and technical approach, but nuanced as follows:

• Social reach-out: Make sure you are building relationships. Go for both online and in-person. That means learning the bus system of your city since cars are hard to pay for without a job.
• Social tutor: Find people who are good at social skills and also not sea-turtling them. They can tutor you.
• Technical: Try to find a project that is interesting and needs more than factual knowledge to design. AI is very good with factual knowledge. But it cannot go much beyond that.

[agile steppe]

I think reasonable feedback, but a few issues.

1. I don't live in a bus driven city. I'm close to NYC, but about an hour out (during non-rush hour times). I used to attend meetups and what not in the city back when I worked there, but I could never make anything come of it in terms of lasting relationships.
2. That leads back to my first question of how
3. I don't have any issue with picking up technical knowledge. I run a site now I use as a technical test bed, along with doing side projects all the time to learn stuff.

As I said, I've got 10+ years of experience. I'm not lacking in fundamentals (or I am and don't know what I'm lacking). I'm most missing out on how to take the next step. "Build relationships" is far too simplistic to be useful. If I knew how to do that, I wouldn't be asking how to build a relationship, would I?

[open ivy]

How often do you reach out to people? How often do people reach out to you?

[agile steppe]

Right now? Rarely and never. In all previous jobs, I tried to establish relationships with co-workers, but I was never able to establish something where the other person was willing to put in any effort. So if they weren't responding in kind, I backed off. I've never been in a situation where someone approached me first.

I don't think I'm unapproachable... heck, comrrodie was never a problem, just building beyond that.

[open ivy]

A moderate sustained effort reaching out is important, so that is an a obvious thing to do. Mix online and in person events. Meetup.com. Discord voice chat on various servers. Hackathons. Even other stuff like hiking clubs.

Surely there are other people in your city who travel to NYC? Can you befriend them and then travel with them?

A lot of towns that are 80-100km away have buses to NYC, just not super-frequently. I can program Python on a bus. But I cannot program Python while driving.

[agile steppe]

Sorry, I know you mean well, but that is so drastically vague/generic it verges on useless. Do other people go to NYC? Yes, literally about a million. Can I befriend them? By asking a random person on subway "Hey, are you a software developer? Wanna chat?" I agree with your first bit about sustained effort, but like I said, if the other person isn't putting back effort, I'm not gonna keep bugging them. Simply saying "do stuff" isn't helpful when I've already said I try to reach out, but haven't yet found someone who's willing to engage beyond the surface.

[agile steppe]

I donno how it is where you are, but engaging in random engaged conversation on public transit is frowned upon here.

Let alone the fact that I don't know if I'd ever see that person again

[open ivy]

Agreed that public transit is the worst for meeting others. Cafes are OK (look for those with open computers). Events are much better and even then it will always be hit or miss. Which is fine, it's not about getting everyone you meet to like you it's about getting enough.

What tech-related meetups have you went to recently?

[agile steppe]

Admittedly, recently not much. The NYC Python meetup went virtual during covid and is only now restarting live stuff. Same for Angular, which I used to attend and was part of the board. I also used to attend random events that coworkers brought up.

[open ivy]

That is still better than me.

It's hard to find meetups that focus on algorythim design. That is my interest.

[agile steppe]

Yah, during covid 90%+ of the virtual events were super basic level, so I didn't bother to log in.

[open ivy]

We must have crappy search algorythims because surely there are expirenced devs who also want to meet. If anything, it is more important. If I just wanted to learn basic Python (and didn't know Python) I would have a thousand or so online free tutorial resources and no need to meetup with anyone. I probably would also be in college with lots of people my age to talk to right outside my doorstep.

After college, finding new places to meet and interact with other people both online and in person is much more important.

I will look closely at how I search for these events and what the hell is wrong with my search method. But it will take time to debug this.

[agile steppe]

And thus you hit on my exact problem. Finding events is hard enough. Finding someone at the event who will engage back shrinks it more. And then finding someone who'll engage past the event is an even smaller subset. Thus back to my original question: is there a way to find a mentor, or just keep trying and hope it works out.

[open ivy]

Lets say neither of us do cloud work nor have a particular interest in it.

And then someone comes up and goes on and on about a new niche cloud provider that compets with AWS. Would we be interested? It's not our exact field. But we kind of have to fake it and it can be hard.

My most successful strategy for social mentors was hiking club:

• Mention (briefly) that I am in tech and doing Cool Stuff. About 50% of people engage.
• Let them know that I am networking for jobs and it is rough out there. About 50% of these engage.
• A further 1/10 or so are both very good at thinking past the sea-turtle and are open for discussion about how they network. Which includes social skills.

Sure, that is only 1/40, but when it does happen it is very useful.

[near ocean]

What do you mean, as a senior dev with 10+ year exp, by finding a mentor?
There's not many people around that could mentor you at that level (im assuming youre not a 10year exp fizzbuzz struggler)

What do you want to learn, why cant you find mentors at work

[open ivy]

I think they mean a social mentor?

They are struggling to meet people for networking. Not struggling to do the work once they get the job.

Also, many workplace envs are bad places to meet people.

The strat for those places is 17:01 and done. Leave more time for places outside of work.

[near ocean]

Unless im reading this wrong, they want someone at work to sponsor their projects or to bring them into existing projects and show them how to run a team

ie a mentor to teach them staff level things

[agile steppe]

I've been working for 10+ years, but I definitely don't have "10 years of experience". Every job has felt like a reset in skill growth, just repetition. I can put together an API, I have decent DB skills, but all of it is mid level at best. I often get the senior position because I know a lot of different things, but nothing well. My DB indexing knowledge is minimal. My knowledge of 0 notation is baseline (I just started learning it a few months ago because interviews these days all seem to be asking big O questions). I've worked on projects with caches, queues, etc, but never once got to work on them myself, so my knowledge is all theoretical, and when I get asked about it, my answers are basically just regurgitating text book answers. It's all let me to a place where I don't feel like a senior dev. I just get hired for the stuff I did before, do that stuff, and get stuck doing that stuff until the company downsizes, or I get tired fo not growing, or something else.

[agile steppe]

I don't even mean to sponsor projects, I just mean someone who can help give me advice on career growth, someone to talk to about technical stuff I don't know, someone who can help me find direction.

I've stalled in my career

And I don't know how to move anywhere. If I'm going to continue down IC, I need to build skills I havent yet gotten to apply. If IC isn't for me, then I need the opportunity to try to lead a team. But I don't even know if I should be going for IC or leadership, because I just keep doing the same things, and every time I try to do something different, I get put back onto the same old thing (my third job, I was there for 4 years, and for over a year, they dangled my being head of the new project we were going to replace the legacy system with, only in the end for me being too vauable on the legacy system to leave it).

[delicate merlin]

Hello guys!

Quite a conversation up here

[agile steppe]

I mean, I'm currently struggling with "how should I handle bulk inserts in a way that is efficient yet responsive to the client", and can't find an answer. Which I feel like any decent senior should know.

[delicate merlin]

Slow mode, I see why you been typing this much. I kind like it. Btw, I'm just chilling here and saw @agile steppe question about career. I can talk about my "career" but I can't tell you what to do or pursue, thats on you :]

[agile steppe]

I also talk too much

[fringe sphinx]

Bulk inserting is certainly a 'it depends' topic. What rdbms? What kind of data? How much data? How frequently? Etc

[delicate merlin]

Seems like impostor syndrome to me. I feel this all the time. Never stoped me from trying. The worst that hapened were some delays on delivering. But what helped me the most was being 100% sincere to the client, keeping an efficient and assertive communication so I wouldnt overpromise/underdeliver

[agile steppe]

Yah, but it's just an example of my knowledge gaps. So many jobs these days ask for queue knowledge, or expect seniors to have architecture knowledge for scaling, and I don't have any of that.

[agile steppe]

I definitely have some imposter syndrome, specially from this last year. Going jobless for a full year, having put out over 500 applications and having only netted 3 first round interviews and 1 second round from that. But more than anything, as I'm building my own projects, I'm just struggling to do so much, it makes me wonder how much I actually know. For example, I don't have a CS background; I'm self taught. That means I never learned what I didn't know I need to learn.

[delicate merlin]

That sucks, but about the knowledge... chuckles mate, nobody knows everything. When I dont know something I just research it or ask a friend that points me into the right direction. Everyone is self taught at some level. "Oh but the deadlines..." I kind of know where to offer my services and then its just a matter of time scheduling. Of course the client is aware of any delays, infact, for every job, I specifically set some time just for research and learning. Thats my cost, if they dont want to pay for me to learn it, they can go to someonelse.

[fringe sphinx]

The amount of things I don't know are also endless.

[delicate merlin]

If you want to know, I'm into electronics engineering, not really into software, and man, let me tell you, people offer terrible services for almost nothing. And there are new electronic parts coming out almost every week, its impossible to keep updated without researching. So even the CTO will be outdated if he wouldnt do his research

[agile steppe]

I don't expect to know everything. I just feel like I don't know as much as others at my level.

I'm rejected from positions for lacking senior skills (it's been the reason I've failed every interview I've gotten over the last year).

[delicate merlin]

Exactly. I had a calculus professor at college that used to tell us: "guys, I'm the one with most questions. just think how much I know, now imagine how many questions I have about that" lol

[agile steppe]

And as I said, maybe IC isn't the place for me. But I don't even know how to find out.

[delicate merlin]

Cmon... how long you been into this 😄 Also, about the interviews, at least now you know first hand exactly what the companies are looking for.

[fringe sphinx]

The best, and probably only, way to get good at anything is to do it. Coding projects, where you dive into a topic and figure it out.

[delicate merlin]

Just open up a youtube basics on this then go for an online course, they are super cheap. practice and practice

[fringe sphinx]

And even then, youll get good at the thing you're doing... not good at everything.

[agile steppe]

Well, just cuz I've been at it a long time doesn't mean it's the right fit. I've enjoyed the few project leadership opportunities I've gotten. But I can't find a way to find out if that's a long term prospect for me.

[delicate merlin]

Perfectly said. Now, @agile steppe Why dont you do a personal project with it also? If they want experience, you could even said "sure I built one of those myself just to get to know it better, infact I love it!!" haha

[agile steppe]

And look, I'm not saying I'm a bad engineer. I am good. I can do a lot, I'm good at big picture thinking, I work well with tech and non tech. But I've been at the same place for 5 years now. So I'm clearly missing something in order to move forward.

[agile steppe]

I've got a bunch of personal projects. Heck, my username is for a site I run. I share them on my resume.

[delicate merlin]

Ok ok, cool, lets pretend we in cafe or whatever. I'll grab salty peanuts you grab whatever cause this gonna be 100% random.

I changed my career from engineering to making food for 2 years. Now I'm back at engineering haha

Maybe you just stuck, or fed up with it, everyone gets bored sometime. Try something else and you will see for yourself, maybe for your surprise, how well your knoledge fits in almost any career

In those 2 years I was slowly automating everything in the kitchen, then I found how expensive can be food machines, just because of health/safety issues.

And believe me, I dumped that also lol

[agile steppe]

I'm not bored or fed up. I love software engineering. I just don't know what I'm missing to progress my career. And as you've both said, there's so much to learn, and just picking things I think are good or I like obviously isn't working.

I guess this is all just a me problem, and I shouldn't have bothered asking. I'll just try to figure it out.

[delicate merlin]

Yeah me too. Poor dad rich dad. You probably head of it somewhere. I'm not telling you to read it (picture we still at the bar balcony), I'm just telling what that book reminded me of: money.
This is not in the book (at least I dont remember) You probably heard someone say: "do what you love and you wont work a day in your life." Thats a big fat lie. Work is work. Thats what my psychologist say. Now what I say is: work is work, but its better to do what you love

[delicate merlin]

I'm sure you will figure it out. But its always best to ask :]

I hope what someone said here tonight helped you in some way. What I would really like you to remember is that you can do more than you think you can.

I wish someone told me that before. Best of luck buddy!

@agile steppe duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude wt-f I loved the idea on your site

I'm a big fan of RPG. I was about to tell you to start something completely new like making a game ffs. Now I believe it wouldnt be that hard for you since you're into games

[agile steppe]

Like I said, building, learning, not the part I have difficulty with. But it's a wide, shallow range of skills, and I'm stalled.

I don't know how to take what I have and use it to move forward in any meaningful way

[delicate merlin]

Sh*t.... ever considered starting a business? Because I believe those guys dont know what the let down not hiring you

What else have you done? If you wanna share of course

[agile steppe]

To start a business, I'd need a business plan, and I don't have one.

[agile steppe]

That's the only project I have that's picked up any traction. I built a PHP ORM in the past, I've built various services for gaming cons and companies, but nothing big.

[delicate merlin]

"Nothing big" do you realize how many people you gathered there

[open ivy]

You are showing a lot of tool use. Like a machine shop engineer who knows all the drill presses saws etc. But programming is also about knowing what to build with these tools and why you are doing it.

I use numpy/numba to make physics simulations. But the why and the how of doing it is much more interesting than the tech stack. And harder to replace with AI since it is further away from the training data.

You also have that in your 10 YOE of work. If you put that foot forward, emphasizing the tricky decisions that weren't just a matter of how to use X to do what X is supposed to do, it may look better on a resume.

It's good to mention the tech stack, of course, but a job is more than that.

[delicate merlin]

I couldnt say it better. I also belive you may be presenting yourself in a bad way. You should be creative director of some project for sure

[agile steppe]

I 100% agree. I just haven't been able to figure out HOW to do that. I'm currently learning ML, but can't think of a project to apply it into. And I've never gotten an opportunity at a job to do "new" or "apply", just a lot of "build this api endpoint that gets, processes, and outputs data"

[delicate merlin]

Maybe you're right, maybe you shouldnt be so deep into tech, maybe you should be managing those people ;]

[delicate merlin]

Dude, I have to go, but I see two things: 1 you know A LOT, you could be hired more easily maybe changing your resume a little. 2 you could also step back a little from the trenches of code and apply for a managing position, 10 years is a lot!

I wish you the best of luck mate, also your site is very cool

[open ivy]

If you were given a team of people to manage what would you like to see them do?

[agile steppe]

Sorry, I don't really understand the question.

[open ivy]

If you want to be a manager you need to come up with the design and have others implement it.

[sly cypress]

does getting a job in IT help towards getting a job as a software engineer

[balmy spade]

It certainly doesn't hurt. I have a number of friends that transferred laterally into software engineering. (myself included)

[sly cypress]

i have an interview for IT and dont have corporates experience but I do have personal experience do you guys have any recommendations for me to say?

[peak halo]

Practice talking about everything that you mention in your resume clearly and confidently.

Something in your resume made them think that you are a good fit for the position. So be ready to answer questions about it.

[sly cypress]

thank you is there any ai you use to practice interviews?

[light mortar]

Came across this useful resource for learning python - https://www.humblebundle.com/books/python-from-beginner-to-advanced-packt-books

[waxen sand]

What approach do I need to take inorder to get shortlisted in interview 💀 ? I never thought day would come to ask this but I have been applying in jobs for months, after a while I loose motivation and stop. Not a single interview has been scheduled. I have improved my resume's ATS score, tried cold emails , approached HRs and recruiters on linkedin but most of them ignore the message or say they require 5-6 years of experience.
How do I improve my networking to land a job? or any other method (I have tried wellfound.com , idk any other)

[final ravine]

What roles are you applying for?

You can also post your (optionally anonymized) CV here for review

Do you do cover letters?

[covert parcel]

I can help with a cover letter if you need

[waxen sand]

nope. am applying for software developer role (backend/frontend)

[near ocean]

What's on your CV

[waxen sand]

where do I post it

[near ocean]

Here, screenshot it and black out the personal info parts

[waxen sand]

I have other projects but they are from 2022/23 so I only displayed latest. They are mainly frontend based

[final ravine]

I'd say that, eg various frontend projects (2022-2024)

You can also have 2 pages

[visual flax]

Axelon services legit?

[analog sun]

@turbid shard your message was removed

[hollow oyster]

Is it better to specialize in cybersecurity or Data science in 2025?

[pine sleet]

depends on what you’re interested in

[hollow oyster]

I love coding. I also love puzzles and logic. I heard Cybersecurity is more logical and puzzle-like, but less coding. Idk which one to specialize in. I dislike advanced complex math, but I am okay with basic or intermediate math.

[balmy mural]

Both cybersecurity and data science are wide fields on their own as well. There's a large amount of variation in jobs within each

[fringe sphinx]

If you're at the beginning of your journey, don't worry about specializing. Aim for broad knowledge. Do various projects and build your foundation.

[vapid jay]

dont do data science I think its definitely not puzzles in there

[fringe sphinx]

Even data science is tough to generalize about. When beginners say "data science", they could mean anything from MLOPS to Data Engineering to Software Engineering to Data Analysis to Data Science.

[hollow oyster]

kind of beginning of my journey. I have a free elective (compulsory) in my university that allows you to take either CyberSecurity or Data Science. I'm conflicted which course to take

[hollow oyster]

I understand. I am kind of interested about Ethical Hacking, but they say coding is less and you need great communication skills

[fringe sphinx]

Both are good choices. Maybe pick the one with the better prof.

Even if you pursue DS, knowing some cybersecurity would be good... and vice versa.

[hollow oyster]

oh. If I am choosing Data Science (idk much about the field) I would learn Data Analytics, ML, DL, and gen AI

[hollow oyster]

I see. I will try. Because I don't want to regret not taking the other course

[fringe sphinx]

My philosophy is: take courses in the subjects you know the least about.

[hollow oyster]

I see lot of free good sources to learn cybersecurity but its hard for me to start learning Data science. So I would say maybe I choose Data science