career-advice

[velvet sigil]

especially not having a program like university gives that promises job-readiness by the end of it(do they actually get people job-ready?)

[fringe sphinx]

Programming takes a long time to really 'feel' like you're good at it: but, you can be productive with it much faster. In other words; being good enough is very different than feeling 'good'

Even college graduates don't feel like they're good enough either

So, focus on building things and being productive. That's more attainable and relevant.

[dim coyote]

Awesome, thanks for the tip! I'll check that out

Good to know that, I just skipped that out cause for some reason I thought I should contact companies to apply for jobs only.

[sand patio]

to what degree are student loans "worth it", in the U.S.? Or well, with a CS job, will it be terribly difficult to pay them off?

[peak halo]

I made more in my first year of employment than the entire cost of my education, post tax.

[sand patio]

oh I see, right after your undergrad?

[peak halo]

Yes

[sand patio]

were your student loans a lot, if you don't mind me asking?

[peak halo]

Probably not in the grand scheme of things.
I think the FAFSA website has a calculator you can use to estimate what your monthly payments would be based on how much you think your education will cost. (I know it has one if you already have loans.)

[sand patio]

oh I see

[peak halo]

From there, you can look at the annual salaries of jobs that you think you'd be able to get.

[sand patio]

I'll check that out, thanks

[peak halo]

Let me know if you don't find it so I can either see if I can find it, or stop telling people that it exists.

||Also who knows, a certain person's department of education might decide that the FAFSA website is government inefficiency.||

[sand patio]

yeah it does exist 👀

oh, some jobs do like, loan reimbursement stuff too, don't they?

[peak halo]

Yeah, but it's probably not much. My company gave me like 5k spread out over 3 years.

[finite crag]

Anyone have a simple problem that will trick ai? I need some testing on a new one

[peak halo]

you're specifically asking how to trick interactive LLMs (which are a very narrow subset of "AI")? that would be a question for one of our three off-topic channels.

[finite crag]

Almost everyone talks about video, image, and LLM when speaking about Ai. Some things are labeled “Ai” but it’s for publicity. Technically yes it’s one subset but it’s really by far the most important and most known thing in Ai.

Whenever someone says “ai” they mean video, image, or LLMS like 90% of the time.

I’m specifically asking for o3 mini high.

GPT 4o and simple next word predicting models are terrible

[finite crag]

I’ll go to the off topic thing tho thanks

[maiden widget]

Hello, can anyone recommend resources to learn python like textbook , websites, or YouTube lectures to build a strong foundation in python for AI/ML .

[graceful monolith]

How Can I Get Started with Programming Jobs? Any Advice?

Hey everyone, I hope you're doing well!

I'm currently looking for job opportunities related to programming and would really appreciate any advice or leads. Here’s a bit about me:

I have a basic understanding of Java and have applied OOP concepts using it.

I also have basic knowledge of Python.

I'm ready to spend hours learning, working, and improving my skills.

My main goal is to find a job as soon as possible, even if the earnings are low—I'm open to anything that can help me gain experience.

I speak Arabic and English, which might be helpful in certain roles.

Additionally, if you have any ideas on leveraging AI or know of any freelance, internship, or entry-level opportunities related to programming, please share them with me. Any guidance or suggestions would mean a lot!

Thank you in advance for your help!

[plush summit]

why wouldn t there be any?

[tough hatch]

hey there

is using AI tools in coding become necessity in our world today , maybe AI won't replace humain but humain who still don't use it in job field will be replaced by other humain , i was wonder about the matter

for instance solving problems , use AI tools to create an visual representation or mind maps (not to write codes) , what do u think guys ?

[final ravine]

humAIn?

[final ravine]

Generating scads of code isn't what the best paid engineers do

Mainly it's debugging, solving problems, discerning options, mentoring other staff, communicating concepts, soliciting requirements

Waiting for CI to pass

[tough hatch]

i talking about the efficienty and the ability to achieving more in less time when using it , so AI has nothing to do here ?

[final ravine]

AI is great at producing legacy software and technical debt

There's very productive programmers that don't even use auto complete

[tough hatch]

we are in 2025 , flexibility should appear here , coding field is adapts well with developments

[final ravine]

Probably AI will allow more non technical users to interact with programming

[tough hatch]

interesting

[tough hatch]

so what do u think about what i mention earlier about solving problems , is it working ? and could it be more efficient way ?

[final ravine]

Do you have an example of a AI generated visual representation of a bug that was easier to solve because of it?

[tough hatch]

right now i don't , i was talking in general way

[mint oracle]

How can a fresher with no prior experience prepare elevator pitch!

[fringe sphinx]

A pitch for what?

[mint oracle]

for intern position for analyst role at gartner!

[lone veldt]

I think I get that dm me

[jovial plank]

hlo
i have a problem in py

[mint oracle]

#1035199133436354600

[fringe sphinx]

What are you pitching?

[mint oracle]

pitch yourself!
generally for 40-60 sec!

[fringe sphinx]

You mean, how to interview? I'm not sure I'd call that a pitch.

[true harness]

an elevator pitch

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iawLbvCyGKw

[mint oracle]

like about yourself why we hire u ur achievements etc..
Craft an elevator pitch around why you would be a great fit for the role- and make sure to tailor it to the specific opportunity
not able to find about gartner interview experience online!

[fringe sphinx]

Arguably, this is what you should do for every interview. Be prepared to answer: "Who are you, why are you here, and why should we hire you?"

Watch that video... but watch past 2:00, where the actual Belfort explains the exercise.

[neat cairn]

hey guys , who can advise what to learn to write on python, telegram bots , parsers , and so on , which is more promising?

[fringe sphinx]

Promising in what sense? What specialty you're likely to get a job doing?

[neat cairn]

in sense that i would be more important as a code writer

i dont even know , i tried to write telegram bots , but its not interesting

i'm here to get a piece of advice

[charred flicker]

i guys why i'm suppressed

[final ravine]

?

[neat cairn]

ok then maybe you can give me advice on where to start

[polar bane]

I need a help with a project , anyone with 3/10 coding knowldege DM me

[mint oracle]

Check this is okay or need some improvement!

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice is: breadth is more important than depth when starting. As the great computer science Shakira said, try everything

[fringe sphinx]

!kin Start here. Find projects that interest you. Pick something you know nothing about.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

Just my initial reaction: The middle paragraph is fluff, doesn't tell me anything. Tells me nothing about you. It's generic.

The first paragraph, I want to hear more about. Why did you go from computer science to ops research? What's interesting about Kaggle or Leetcode? What have you done with ML/Web Dev? Can you connect all this back to ops research?

CS -> Coding&Algorithms&ML -> Ops Research -> Analyst is a very interesting path, and I think you can connect the dots better.

Watch this guy: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vinh+giang+tell+me+about+yourself

You don't have to be as dynamic as him, but I do like his general advice and vibe.

[vapid jay]

is there anything wrong with sharing resume with personal info here?

[peak halo]

No, just be sure to cover your phone number and precise address, if either of those are in there. anything else is up to you.

[radiant vortex]

I wouldn't put a picture on your resume

[peak halo]

that's expected in certain regions.

[vapid jay]

yea in my country too

[radiant vortex]

What regions are we talking? Seems like a bad idea

[peak halo]

south asia

[vapid jay]

picture needed.
south asia and also in germany and netherlands. as far as ik.

is the pic with bg weird?

[peak halo]

the picture is fine, I think

[radiant vortex]

agreed, if a picture is needed, that looks fine

the colours give a nice impressions imo

I'd probably move experience+education to the top, then skills and projects?

also what was your role in the experience section, and how long you worked there for

[vapid jay]

it was more like a contract

update:
intro
education
experience
projects
skills?

[peak halo]

@vapid jay if it was a contract, just say when it was. I would also say when you finished the degree, or when you expect to finish it.
remember that GitHub has capital G and H
I don't have much to say about the content. I don't know very much about web development, but think it looks prety good.

[vapid jay]

okay thank you. i will correct them and share here. also should i put it like int right corner taht it was a contract or in the description

[maiden lava]

Hello people, i am someone that is interested in initiazing a programming career.

i have done a year and a half technical program on systems development and i know the basics about programming logic, before i tought of python as the go to programming language the moment i became interested in programming, but after doing the technical program i see that there are a lot of languages and areas and now i really dont know what i should do, i dont have a preference in anything and dont know what i should do to learn more.

I'm currently waiting for a response from a Software Engineering college to see if they accept me for a bachelor's degree but i dont think i will be accepted since there is only 1 spot, so i am asking here what would you recommend me to do

[crude snow]

you cant tell me this is normal it probally collecting all my data

it been scannning for 2 days now , and my pc isnt even slow

[open ivy]

They talk about the tech veterans who are laid off and struggling to get a job.

But most tech veterans usually have a very different portfolio from mine, even though I am new in the industry itself I have a lot of personal projects. My portfolio is more about tool development than about tool use. So a company looking for that may prefer me as a candidate.

[safe ice]

https://lu.ma/fyu8iqnk

[fringe sphinx]

"How to learn programming?" is different than "How to get a degree" or "How to start my career". These are some very different converastions... that said: yes, there are many programming languages. Python is the most common first language nowadays, as far as I've seen. It's a good place to start, and will help you as a programmer no matter where your career goes.

[ocean pawn]

focus on tying the skills of the roles to the description of what the company does, research their website

and not literally tying them together, but making it make sense of what x role would do at x company

a ml/ai engineer at tesla is likely working with existing models for the products tesla has, whether its cars, modules, data etc that you're working with in the position, what skills are they gonna be looking for from the engineer

[burnt glade]

Hello

[misty mason]

Hello

[uncut bay]

Hey guys I am wondering what certain tech path I should go down? Currently I am learning Python using Harvard's CS50 Introduction to Programming with Python course (up to 'Libraries'). I am currently going into Year 9. I am interested in building something like a mobile app from scratch that is fun and engaging, not game development, I am curious about AI (and since I am learning Python it could be good), but unsure.

[rare sand]

only you can figure that out. you go down all of them to test them out and then stick with the ones you like.

[uncut bay]

so should I spend like one year learning each path?

[meager mango]

Hello

[potent kiln]

any developer who know how to make APIs?

[near ocean]

All of them, ideally?

[potent kiln]

no man a professional one

[near ocean]

Are you trying to recruit or offer people jobs?

[potent kiln]

ah not sure

[near ocean]

Why did you ask then?

[potent kiln]

Its a secret

[buoyant seal]

It is in our blood baby, it is who we are (Backend Developers living in dev friendly Linux systems and building network accessable stuff!) https://youtu.be/eIHXHSI1T70

[near ocean]

Do i have to ping mods or are you gonna delete your post

[potent kiln]

do whatever u can

[pine sleet]

what are you even talking about?

[blazing crown]

heyo all, i am in the market for a job - except i dont know if my skills are worth writing home about, or rather i have a few projects under my belt, but they aint anything amazing, and i doubt any company would hire me based on those alone

eg: i made a discord bot : it has over 100 commands, it can interract with a game's api i reverse engineered and do things players normally wouldnt be able to, uhh it also has a ai upscale command, but thats just taking some other gui github project, adding cli to it, making another discord bot with an api that gets called by the main bot, so i can run the commands on my home computer with a stronger gpu etc

i made a scriptable reverse proxy to do more things i shouldnt do, it has a website to go along with it for logging network requests so you can see how api's are being called etc (different to mitm-proxy, this fixes an issue for example in python where you cant use mitm-proxy for https requests -maybe its fixed now i dunno)

i made a chat bot for that game mentioned (altho written in typescript, i refactored photon client from js to typescript (yes adding types to over thousands of lines of code ;-;) and using es-modules) -- cause its now using es-modules i also made a website to go along with it using nextjs

the game in question is a block building mobile game, so i also made a 3d editor with unity for it, so users can make cool things and import them into the game, (which again required more legality questioning things like ripping assets and stuff)

other things i know (somewhat): docker, redis, postgres/ sqlite

all in all, there's not alot of skills i have that i would say anyone looking to hire me would want, all ive done is legally questionable things if you ask me (they took alot of time to do mind you, and after being let go off my non IT related job i was doing prior to this, i would like to move to a programming related role

so i just need guidance on if anything ive done is useful/ things i can put on my cv?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm just skimming, but - put together a rough draft CV (anonymized) and post it for review?

better to put too much on your rough draft

[blazing crown]

got it, ill see what i can do, is using chat gpt a nono or?

[fringe sphinx]

The second question is: "what job?"

[fringe sphinx]

I think GPT is good for idea generation, so at rough draft phase it's useful, even though it generates terrible resumes.

[blazing crown]

yeh, i guess ive got a range of c#, frontend like react and ts, and python i know, others are just essentials like db and docker etc for deployment,

from them c# is used more i think around here (uk) as far as i can tell from job listings, so maybe getting a job asap i should focus on that? then again using unity isnt enough, i dont know much about building asp.net applications etc like many companies are looking for

[fringe sphinx]

You go to interviews with the resume you've got, not the resume you want. Embrace what you know.

That said - sometimes you'll need to aim lower than your target. You might not land a programming job right away, so be open to other jobs like QA and operations - things that are closer to your goal.

Tech is much bigger than just programming jobs.

[blazing crown]

agreed, as long as it gets me closer im fine with that, anything IT related tho, even if it is more systems management related or something. .

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, that's the right attitude.

[blazing crown]

ive been hearing a few distant cousins of mine got a cyber security roles, without much qualifications either,

from my understanding was those roles required deep computer science knowlege, no? that maybe an aspect im willing to explore,

[harsh geyser]

Whats the best free python course

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know much about cyber security jobs.

[fringe sphinx]

Plz ask in #python-discussion

[peak halo]

@earnest copper You asked about preparing for a data science internship. Here's my answer:

• The most important thing is that you practice speaking clearly and confidently about the content of your resume. Be prepared to answer questions about everything that's on it. If there's something on there that you can't speak confidently about, don't include it on your resume. They're interviewing you because something on your resume made them think you can do the work they have in mind for you. If you don't actually have the knowledge/experience that they're looking for, there probably aren't any magic words you can learn between now and the interview that will make a difference.
• I made a list of common DS/ML interview questions here: #career-advice message

[queen citrus]

hlo everyone this is anurag

[deft herald]

hi anurag

[whole cypress]

im not in the cyber security field but from what i can tell the knowledge isnt as code based and focuses more on knowledge of internal systems, permissions, and some software

tryhackme.com is a pretty good start if you want a free coarse

[supple shell]

I’m a BTech CSE student learning Python. What kind of beginner projects can help me build a strong portfolio for placements? Is Flask or Django better for a backend developer role? I have 3 months to prepare. How do I get internship opportunities as a Python developer? Any recommendations?

[final ravine]

You need to know how to pick and evaluate components to use flask. So it's best to start learning django build a few django projects then decide if you need the features from flask or FastAPI or litestar etc

[supple shell]

but i found out that it will take much time to learn django and i should start with flask. i am a bit confused about it.

[proud glacier]

it will take time to learn anything
Flask is simpler but you will need to spend time researching and integrating various extensions as graingert pointed out

[supple shell]

i had made a rest api using flask taking reference from google. i haven't learnt flask for that , just used it in it. should i leave it in between and go with django?

[final ravine]

Who said that?

[final ravine]

It's much quicker to learn how to build projects with Django than it is to learn how to build projects with flask

[pine kite]

Learning Django is a lot easier for beginners. The Django official docs and tutorial can be very helpful. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.1/intro/tutorial01/.

[final ravine]

It's like comparing a bread maker to fire. It's easier to learn fire, but easier to make bread with the bread maker

[clever elm]

the smell of burnt toast raises all kinds of complications

[final ravine]

Probably after a while with the bread maker you'll get fed up of it and you'll either improve the bread maker, or replace it with a KitchenAid and a dutch oven

[fringe sphinx]

It's also a sign of stroke, or so I'm told.

[fringe sphinx]

Incidentally, I've heard people argue the opposite in pydis (flask being the 'easy mode'). I've never touched Django so have no direct opinion.

[final ravine]

These people just could not be more wrong and probably have been writing insecure software

[clever elm]

Django was number 1 in a list of 10 marketable libraries I read a while back

[final ravine]

OR they learned another tool to make websites first

[clever elm]

in retrospect I question that now given the credibility of top 10 lists in circulation these days

[final ravine]

It seems to me like Django is used by productive but boring companies. Like they get stuff done they ship products and the thing works, but they don't pay you top salaries

[vapid jay]

hiii

[final ravine]

Then you have companies that are startups that just got a huge bag of gold, and they are using FastAPI and rust etc, they're not shipping anything and they're certainly not got any products to sell, but they pay well if they remember to do payroll

[vapid jay]

what are some python oop courses on youtube you recommend

[clever elm]

theres a decent beginners course on udemy I can recommend if you're interested, it's not free though

[vapid jay]

no actually i need a free course

[final ravine]

!oop

[clever elm]

tbh it's not the most complicated thing, practice writing classes with super

[final ravine]

Hmm I thought we had a recommendation list

[clever elm]

look up getters and setters, private variables (pythons version)

[vapid jay]

thank you

[clever elm]

it's mostly practice

[crisp stream]

your message has been removed as it violates rule 6 of our server. please adhere to the #rules in the future.

[vapid jay]

i think i will look up for freecodecamp

[final ravine]

https://docs.python.org/3/howto/descriptor.html is good for getters/setters

[clever elm]

so I'm thinking I should start using ai to write code so I'm not at a huge competitive disadvantage, but it seems like overkill for my solo projects

just tried co-pilot plugin for the first time, never had it before so ai was always a step removed and easy to ignore

[final ravine]

AI code is super weird

Forcing it to use TDD is helpful

[clever elm]

it sort of was, asked it for a recursive binary search tree and it even made the root an insertion in the node to make the whole thing recursive, was amusing if nothing else

what is TDD?

[final ravine]

When you write the test before the code, test driven design

[clever elm]

oh gotcha, I haven't even dabbled in testing

[final ravine]

But you have to be vigilant because it will break the test to make a code pass

[clever elm]

hmm

something I'll probably need to spend a bit of time going over

[plain ferry]

I am looking for a Python expert with hands-on experience in video processing using FFmpeg and OpenCV.
If you have experience,plz DM.

[peak halo]

this isn't a place for ask people to do things for you, but if you want to get help doing something, take a look at #❓｜how-to-get-help

[deft herald]

I am going to reiterate what stelercus said, and also suggest to just go ahead and ask your question. I have experience using those two libs as well as googling how to do stuff with them

[safe ice]

https://lu.ma/fyu8iqnk

[hexed axle]

hi

[plain ferry]

plz DM

[deft herald]

Why can't you just ask in a help thread? Already it's been more than 2 hours and you still haven't gotten any help

[hot karma]

sabhee ko namaskaar, aap kaise hain?

[peak halo]

Hello @hot karma , we only allow English. It's okay if you speak English imperfectly

[hot karma]

Ohh okh no woreys.. :)))))

[peak halo]

No, I am.

[long torrent]

Hey

[vestal remnant]

hey i need help with my college project i m new to python

[final ravine]

I think this violates the x.com terms of service

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> this violates more than twitter tos

[rancid wing]

does anyone know the best freelance sites for beginners?

[vapid jay]

guys i need your honest opinion on something. i spent last 5 years anything related to coding. every year i did lil projects. small baby steps i took to become web developer mainly.

now my father wants me to apply for normal IT jobs like technician jobs. he wants me to apply for bank jobs. he is in banking sector.

its impossible for me to make him understand that i am not from that field and i do not wish to work in bank IT. its not the same as development.

am i being stupid not trying for those job?becasue rn i am trying to study for developer job and thats a lot of fkn stuff to study but he wants to study general knowledge and all the normal stuff ppl study for banking.
now its not possible to study everything. his reason i can spend at least 1 hr in studying banking stuff or general interview stuff forother jobs.

[fringe sphinx]

I agree with him. If you don't have a degree, getting -some- industry experience on your resume will help open doors... even if it's something like IT, Operations, QA, etc. Many banks have SWE teams, and any experience takes you in the right direction.

[vapid jay]

I graduated from computer science and engineering last month

i spent 5 years to graduate so i can work as developer i got into this field so i can code and develope. now that i am finally free he si telling me to go for that than what i did all these for

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then: try to land the job you want. If you can't, then look at adjacent jobs, etc.

But to be fair, there is wisdom in: don't wait for the perfect job, get some work experience.

[rare sand]

I totally agree with Billy. and remember, just because you take a job in IT doesn't mean you can't continue to look for a developer job alongside that.

as soon as you find your opportunity, just quit that IT gig and switch over

but there's little to be gained from remaining inactive while you wait for that opportunity to present itself. maybe it's some tech job, maybe it's volunteer work or open source or whatever but definitely do something

also as someone who has worked many years in IT even while I was a capable developer, that basically gives you superpowers. You'll be able to automate stuff that your colleagues will need to sit around doing manually and you'll do in 10 minutes what takes others hours. IT employees who introduce a business to the wonders of automation can sometimes find their responsibilities and titles morphed into software developer, this is especially true for small businesses.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, hah, I've had a similar experience; my career was very systems oriented for a long time: I had one foot in the data center and IT, altho being primarily a programmer. My knowledge of both let me go into consulting and build relationships / my own customers.

[rare sand]

I started at an ISP and did lots of ops and networking stuff before I found my way into development.

it's a perfectly valid pathway

[fringe sphinx]

My partner/eng lead started in tech support in big tech

[rare sand]

and many of the skills I picked up in IT translate well into useful skills for development jobs

after all, there's much more to being a developer than just.. writing code.

[rare sand]

sounds similar to me then. I literally started part time in the mail room of one of the biggest ISPs in the country. Maybe the worst job in the building. mostly sorting envelopes and walking letters to peoples desks.

20 years later I'm a small business owner and CTO of a medium sized consultancy

tech is a ladder

[vapid jay]

yes. thank you for the response. i appreciate it

[dull belfry]

ok i just got my semester papers and i have scored 68 in DSA and java i did expect much more, should i consider re evaluation of this. i mean i was afraid this could impact my placements in final year.. i got overall sgpa 7.5 but low score in DSA was not expected 🥲

[peak halo]

Hello @wise vine, your message was removed for soliciting a business relationship, which is against the rules.

[vague crown]

What's the general thought on Data Analytics? How much programming would I regularly be doing? I'm currently lacking a bit of motivation for doing IT Support (which I'm beginning job training for in two weeks), I would get more motivation out of knowing what direction I want to go with my career. I don't see myself answering phone calls for a living

[past zealot]

Hey! In terms of writing a CV for CS and IT, should I put any certificates in my pdf? Or should the pdf only contain the CV? Mind you the certificates I'm talking about are like "3rd Best Student for 12th grade examinations", I'm 2nd year CS student applying for a summer intern btw. Thank you very much! ♥️

This is part of my "Achievements" section

[peak halo]

is there a reason you're making a distinction between your CV and the pdf that contains the CV?

"3rd Best Student for 12th grade examinations" isn't a certificate. "certificate" has a specific meaning for people who hire developers, and if you list things as certificates that aren't, that will be confusing for them.

I don't recommend listing anything you did in high school after your first year of university.

[past zealot]

ah right, fair enough! Thank you for that! But not even what you got in high school overall? Like just beside, my high school name in "Education"

[peak halo]

I wouldn't even list that you went to high school. that's just assumed.
there's a lot of growing up that happens during your first year of college/university. the things you did in high school helped you get into college, but employers aren't likely to see them as relevant to who you are now.

[cosmic mountain]

And is it possible guys to land a job without a degree just certifications since at times degrees can be overwhelming and learning things that you can't even apply

[peak halo]

getting a job without a degree would be exceptionally difficult. I think you should reconsider your willingness to get a degree.

[cosmic mountain]

But haven't people (on YouTube) say that this certain field requires skills it isn't a matter of the papers you have

[peak halo]

Those people are saying things that their viewers want to hear.

[past zealot]

ah yeah! I understand what you mean, I thought they'd be consider it since it's a internship for 2nd year students. Also, for tools that I know, like I know SolidWorks CAD and OnShape (I know it's not related to CS), but would it be good to have it in like "Other tools" subsection in the section "Technical Skills" (just following Jake's resume in the pinned comments) or just strictly developer tools

[cosmic mountain]

I agree with you ... So how did you get to learn these skills ... I've been trying though not getting anywhere ... Can you please provide a roadmap for me with resources to get started 🙏

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid violet]

People keep saying that a degree is just "papers" but it is actually "papers that prove that you learned something as well as were able to meet non skill based requirements like deadlines, how to communicate professionally, etc"
-# At least that is my take on it

[cosmic mountain]

Thanks a lot let me get started on them

[peak halo]

yeah. it's pretty reductive to say that a degree is "a piece of paper".

[cosmic mountain]

But I find people calling them papers since we learn a lot of things that aren't even in line with what you want ... But I stand to be corrected

[near ocean]

Even if they are just papers you'll notice that most employers ask for them and that you'll have a hard time finding a job without them

[peak halo]

I'm the first to admit that the quality of university courses are very hit-or-miss. and I think universities and instructors need to be held accountable for courses that are a miss.

[cosmic mountain]

Yeah and even at times a degree can make you have a wider point of view of the different types of things you may venture into not only just focusing on that one thing

[fringe sphinx]

You jumped into a question about landing a job without a degree, without any context. What's your situation?

[cosmic mountain]

Ok I am in a university studying IT and I'm learning things I don't think I'll ever apply them every in my life and a unit takes a whole semester to learn and in online courses it takes a few hours ... Plus our lecturers also say that you need to practise things on your own so why go to school yet you're not taught to apply

[fringe sphinx]

What country and what major? "studying IT" means a lot of things, depending on where / exact major.

[peak halo]

imo, most of the benefit of university are the parts that aren't the courses. the biggest benefit is networking with the faculty and students and finding opportunities on campus.

my career is predicated almost entirely on work that I did in one of the university's labs, which wasn't part of a course.

[fringe sphinx]

Also depends on the year... 1st year courses are very diff than 4th year.

[peak halo]

the endgame courses are definitely more fulfilling, yes.

[fringe sphinx]

My son is taking some upper class CS elective this semester (he's a freshman), and he's loving it.

[cosmic mountain]

Like the degree name is Bachelor of science in information technology... Country :Kenya

[fringe sphinx]

In US, IT can mean a few different things. Generally, an IT degree is "systems" focused not "programming", so your topics would be geared towards the general IT profession and not specific towards a software engineering career.

But, your professors are right: School is half the equation. The other half is you learning outside of school, through projects.... regardless of your focus.

The third half is the people you meet, relationships, etc.

Perhaps the fourth half is the discipline and maturity you develop. There's lots of halves.

[cosmic mountain]

So now in Kenya the IT course you venture into lots of things like software engineering, data science , IT consultant etc.

[fringe sphinx]

You said: "I'm learning things I don't think I'll ever apply them every in my life" - Oddly, this is very hard to predict. I use all sorts of information in my life. Breadth is more important than depth, in my opinion.

[cosmic mountain]

Yeah I understand your POV.... Thank you for the info

[fringe sphinx]

(also, i agree.. many Uni courses are mind-numbingly tedious and boring)

[cosmic mountain]

So it all depends with your goals and what you really want for yourself

[vapid jay]

i have a question to professionals , how do i write cv as first time ? how it should look like ?

[fringe sphinx]

#career-advice message or #career-advice message are two examples. This is fairly normal for US formats, but your country may have local expectations that differ.

[deft herald]

You can find free templates to use in Google Docs, etc.

This is a popular one
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[elfin topaz]

yo

[deft herald]

nah

[analog sun]

@cinder quiver your message has been removed for being an ad and off topic

[turbid sparrow]

hey does anyone knows about the best resources for data structures n algorithms(in python) for studying

[pine sleet]

this is a python server

[true harness]

clrs

[wicked linden]

guys, i'm learing python, but, then i want to learn some frontend lenguage, which is the best to learn?

[pine sleet]

js is pretty much the only viable one

[wicked linden]

ok thanks

[open ivy]

I use two hours of standing desk a day, and if anything it helps me get stuff done.

[midnight arrow]

Is ai gonna take over software development jobs?

[pine sleet]

"take over"? probably not. change? most likely

[peak halo]

I am a computational linguist and assess the capabilities of generative language models, which are what you're referring to.
I think it's likely that these technologies will cause there to be fewer entry-level positions, if for no other reason than that ignorant non-technical managers will decree that more experienced devs should lean on AI instead of hiring juniors. But I don't see a path to them eliminating software development as an occupation. you need to know what you're trying to create to make use of these tools, at a deeper level than just knowing what it's supposed to do for users.

[harsh remnant]

Not yet because AI can’t even do my assignments yet properly 😭

Let alone a company with hundreds of thousands lines of code

[peak halo]

which one are you using? there are LLMs that can flawlessly complete any beginner assignment.

[uncut abyss]

Hi, there good morning
I am a graduate in electrical engineering from the 2024 batch. Currently I am working as a management trainee, but I want to switch my career to ML roles, although I prepared for them in my campus placement but couldn't go through. I have basic understanding of ML concepts through Andrew NG courses. But python language is where I find myself quite weak, I joined this channel to get guidence about how can I get stronger in python programming to crack ML interviews.

I need guidence also If anyone interested I am ready to share my CV in DM

Thank you 😀

PS: I am ready to work harder because now I know how it feels like when you are not loving the work you do, and took placements not seriously during college placements.

[fringe sphinx]

The best way to get better at programming is through practice (projects). Get experience solving and figuring out problems. Below is a list of project ideas, but you could also look for ML related projects

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

Separately, if there's specific topics you want to learn, just ask here or in #python-discussion for more specific advice.

[uncut abyss]

Thank you for fast reply, during my college time, I worked on basic project.
.Image generation using GAN
.Emotion recognitionof any image (used pre-trained models of deep learning)
.Basic fingerprint sensor door lock using Arduino

But going through LinkedIn and news it looks like these projects are not important any more as LLM stepped in. Where I am unable to find any good project except making a basic chatbot using streamlit.

My end goal is to make my CV get shortlisted by mentioning some good product (above college level).

PS: I am expressing my way of thinking for getting a job. if I am wrong anywhere please correct me.

[fringe sphinx]

There are many types of programming jobs. It's impossible to predict exactly which skills you'll need in your next job. The best thing you can do is prepare by doing projects that challenge you, that teach you something new, and you'll become a better programmer.

Dont worry whether this project will get you the next job: you'll never know.

[peak halo]

sure, see #❓｜how-to-get-help and #media-processing. though keep in mind that doing that in real time is very specialized, and it's relatively unlikely that someone knows how to do it.

[zealous sinew]

when taking into consideration which college should I go to and which degree to pick, should I worry if the degree isn't ABET acredited?

[peak halo]

ABET is the main accreditor of CS programs in the US. is the degree accredited by someone else?

[zealous sinew]

Well not that im aware of, but it is an ivy league university, so I wasn’t too sure if that evened things out ig?

[peak halo]

is the program in-person or only online?

[zealous sinew]

It’s for yale, some of their comp sci programs aren’t ABET accredited

[peak halo]

that doesn't answer my question.

[zealous sinew]

? It’s in person

[peak halo]

so it's an in-person CS degree from Yale. Is it a BS, BEng, or what?

[zealous sinew]

It’s a bachelor’s of engineering sciences in electrical engineering and comp sci

It’s like a dual thing, since they don’t directly offer computer engineering

[peak halo]

I assume you're looking at this?

this is the first place I've seen a university draw a hard distinction between which of their programs are and aren't ABET-accredited

if the program you're applying to is competitive and accredited by someone, that should be sufficient

but unaccredited degree programs that accept everyone are just cash grabs.

[zealous sinew]

I'll keep it in mind when selecting between them, thank you!

[glacial ferry]

this computer networking class is the most boring and aggravating thing i’ve ever done. we’re learning fully from the online cisco academy, i can’t summon any motivation to do this. can anyone with a CCNA cert help me and give me motivation to keep going?

[tender sun]

Hi, how do you tailor a resume for a first-time internship? What all sections must be included knowing that the experience section is empty, I have built 4 projects, I want to describe them in the resume

[neat cairn]

Hello, is there anyone here who knows how to set up recurring payments in a telegram bot through telegram stars?

is it even possible ?)

[mint oracle]

Hlo Billy our advice helped me! but failed at 3rd round!

[fringe sphinx]

Glad it helped, too bad you didn't get it! Think of it as good practice 🙂

[dapper bane]

@fringe sphinx sorry if u mind the ping I have had a total of 2 job offers and 1 freelancing gig. The thing is they are paying low to mid.

I want something more I think I have the skills but don't know what to do.

I have been farming PRs in open source bluesky, fcc, mattermost,rocket chat,usememos

I want to take it to next level

Maybe leave the country

I don't know

But I don't know how should I upgrade myself more

I already complete ml & ai courses will make a portfolio through open source

But is there anything u recommend ?

I don't know
Start a business or something ?

[fringe sphinx]

The best "upgrade" is experience. Years of experience is an important factor for hiring managers.

Sometimes you have to take the best option, even if the best isn't what you want.

[finite crag]

there are llms which are very close, or at, the level of a graduate mathematician.

so its, far, far above beginner level. Not even just speaking about math alone either.

[fringe sphinx]

This has nothing to do with this channel. Use off topic plz

[open ivy]

Dear Linkedin: Can you tell me people I should follow who have less than 1024 followers? The people with 10k-100k followers have enough they don't need more!

[uncut bay]

how realistic is it that I want to have a software engineer job at one of those giant buildings, with a nice view of a big city below?

[limber musk]

I don't know if this is boring to ask but i wanna know what if a person starts its coding being 25 years old?

[final ravine]

That's pretty realistic TBH

I think probably you can aim higher

[lofty cobalt]

hi

[uncut bay]

actually?

[whole spindle]

yes

[uncut bay]

like what

[tranquil heron]

hi everyone whats the best job i can go for rn which requires python?

[balmy mural]

I had people with me in unuversity who only started their degree at 23-24. You'll still be able to find a job, even if you start later

[nocturne harbor]

This is extremely inappropriate, LLM-generated or not. Please re-read our code of conduct.

[sly ibex]

Seriously? So regardless of the age factor, you can still get a job into computing

[dapper bane]

is farming open source PRs stupid ?

I am targeting these languages typescript, python, golang, rust

I want pick one more language that is a little rare in the market and its developers are really rare

I want to do some brainstorm the new golang project I picked yesterday is called lazygit.

[peak halo]

What do you mean by "farming"?
Go for quality over quantity. Don't overwhelm open source maintainers.

[dapper bane]

hey I am all bout quality and to the point PRs

Every PR I made had quality code and was updated ASAP when reviewed then merged

The issue I pick are planned or help wanted issues

[fringe sphinx]

There's a wide range of jobs, there's no 'best'. Tech is a huge field, it's like asking which car is best.

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 503717536706199552 We do not allow recruiting, advertisements or anything like this on this server. Read the #rules before posting.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @austere plume.

[final ravine]

Maybe, I went round enabling universal wheels and porting to python 3 early in my OSS activity

[fringe sphinx]

I think a more productive exercise is to pick project(s) that are: interesting to you, relevant to real-world jobs, are open to new contributors (including triage and testing and other non-development tasks). Getting involved isn't just about pushing PRs for easy things. Having a long history of contributions to specific projects is more impressive than lots of small contributions.

[dapper bane]

I am still working on my resume here
https://paste.myst.rs/m12kupsr

[fringe sphinx]

(Also, not to disagree with graingert's comment above, that's also a fine strategy; find something you can do that's useful)

[dapper bane]

u can lookin into my open source stuff in the resume if u wanna see ?

[fringe sphinx]

Not right now, but happy to later!

[dapper bane]

I am stone that the builder refused, the inspiration and imma remain a soldier till the war is won

[dapper bane]

np

[fringe sphinx]

Your resume does keep getting better every time you share it. You're moving in the right direction!

[dapper bane]

this

I am using latex now

[fast fossil]

a higher building probably

[vapid jay]

please can someone say if you found any real remote work as a coder or sec specialist?

[final ravine]

Yes

[digital fjord]

A friend is 100% remote at a fairly major company, but they got that through a reference, and had experience.

[fringe sphinx]

My team is 80-90% remote

(But we hire people close enough where we can meet as needed)

[fast fossil]

is 80-90% of your team working remote or are they 80-90% remote? (i.e., 10-20% office)

[balmy mural]

My team is also fully remote. We occasionally go into office for a team lunch or something similar

[final ravine]

I found a remote job that I ended up going into to office for a fair bit, but we were all forced remote for the pando

[fringe sphinx]

Latter: 80%ish of time we're all remote. Then we get together to meet, or meet at a customer site, or whatever.

[vapid jay]

i am on codementor now , but again its seems to be so deserted

[digital fjord]

I was also 100% remote at my only workplace thus far, actually, from month 2 onwards.

[fringe sphinx]

But, if I were giving advice, I think best strategy to finding a job is to be willing to work onsite.

A lot of RTO policies mean a lot more in-office opportunities

[digital fjord]

but yes, companies do generally want you close enough to show up if needed

[final ravine]

There was a drop in remote roles I saw on my LinkedIn feed for the past 2 years or so, but there's been an uptick since January 1st

I do "mandatory" office days once per month

[vapid jay]

did someone really made money by using upwork , frellacner or other websites like those, I mean i am self thoght sysadmin, i also familiar with red/blue team scenarios, and i code in python, and little bit in html, but i am unemployeed

[final ravine]

Salaries also seem a bit higher

But I didn't keep any logs so I'm just going on vibes

[pine sleet]

some people do but it’s fairly rare to have it as your primary source of income

[vapid jay]

i mean not as a main income source, but even as a little sum to have in pack!

[pine sleet]

more common to make a few bucks here and there while you work but I don’t think it’s worth it for most people. You’d be making more money per hour on average in your actual job

[pine sleet]

if you just want money there are better ways to do that. It’s very difficult to find work on fiverr because you’re competing with literally millions of other inexperienced people from low COL already doing the same work as you for far less money

[vapid jay]

also true

[placid hill]

I'd say UpWork is better than Fiverr because at least you can make offers on gigs.

[spice willow]

What are the better ways 👀

[pine sleet]

a job

[rapid holly]

anyone here ever worked a job that they hated?
for eg someone who loves backend and just making API's or interested in making game engines but doing UI 🤢 in an overrated framework?
cuz most entry level jobs are about that these days?

[fringe sphinx]

Honestly? No, I've never had a job I didn't like.

Perhaps equal parts luck and attitude.

[deft herald]

I've generally liked my jobs. There are parts I don't like about it of course but that's always going to be there

My last job turned into something I didn't like so I moved companies

[near ocean]

Is UI really that bad or are you just bad at it?

[rancid apex]

It's happening to me rn. Its not the worst thing in the world but I did get baited by the interview. I was advertised a development role but now im doing like Business Intelligence

[nova root]

Hello, my name is Bandit! I am currently a newly enrolled computer science student trying to attend college using the VOC Rehab program for tuition assistance. I am looking forward to doing Software Development, Web Development, and other roles have also caught my eye as well. I am looking for someone in the Software/Web Development field willing to fill out an Informational Interview document for me. It asks basic questions like “What do you enjoy the most about your job?”, “What types of jobs are in this career field?”. I only require 2 people who wouldn’t mind helping me out, it has 18 questions, I will DM my email to send the word document to you personally. I genuinely appreciate the help.

[deft herald]

When do you need it filled out by?

[nova root]

whenever you could within 48 hours preferably but I understand people have lives and can get backed up so I don't rush! @deft herald

[outer granite]

How do I obtain a good chance of getting a job in the coding industry without a college degree?

[balmy spade]

Have demonstrable skills with the experience to back them.

[vapid jay]

hello everyone. i am starting a project for a client who wants an ecommerce site. i am not expert. but i want to use fastapi in backend. is it safe and production ready. i did try django. i feel like django is too opiniated and one way to do stuff mentality. fastapi is so flexible and i love it.

and in frontend i will use angular. is it good enough?

[peak badger]

for the backend, i think fastapi is a really good option
for the frontend I am not really sure but angular is a solid choice 🙂

[vapid jay]

why hwy

i love angular. its better than react. i will use tailwind with it

[lilac sundial]

Tailwind is addicting

[vapid jay]

ikr!!!!!!!!!
its so beautiful and it makes automatically beautiful sites

[spark edge]

Angular with Tailwind is just wow.. like cute couples

[pine sleet]

people don’t really make new projects in angular anymore

nextjs is the new cool kid on the block

[buoyant seal]

U could pick Django Ninja, to have benefits of Django + Fastapi at the same time 😉

[vapid jay]

Its on top of react hence idc

[dusk citrus]

@fringe sphinx I'm not trying to work a job that's relevant for uh CS majors

Uh you could imagine other engineers also having some cs prereq knowledge right; i'm referring mostly to that

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of job are you looking for, and what education do you have?

[dusk citrus]

I'm in high school

But uh i'm looking to learn cs principles which are immediately relevant to the applied side of things

Because the more abstract/obscure things could be picked up at a later time

[pine sleet]

The AP class?

[fringe sphinx]

At the high school level, I'd normally say: build projects, and separately, learn to love math (even if math class sucks)

[dusk citrus]

Not really

[dusk citrus]

I already do math 😭 and now it's time to apply everything i learnt in math (well soon enough)

[true harness]

applied side of what

[fringe sphinx]

Getting good by building projects takes a lot of time, and learning abstract CS topics is a distraction (in HS)

[pine sleet]

oh, there’s an ap class that goes by the same name I thought that’s what you meant

[dusk citrus]

yeah it's csp i think

[fringe sphinx]

But that said; DSA is probably the first topic to cover, if you want.

[dusk citrus]

like uh robotics and the like

[fringe sphinx]

Check out MIT 6.006

(Again, I don't think you need to, but if you want to)

[dusk citrus]

Why is there a "disjoint" between advice you'd give out to someone in hs and/or someone who has graduated, for example?

[fringe sphinx]

Graduated with a Uni degree?

[dusk citrus]

yeah someone with an undergrad degree

[fringe sphinx]

I don't understand the question then. Why would I give different advice to someone in HS vs someone who's studied CS for 4 years? That's self evident, no?

[dusk citrus]

No someone who hasn't studied CS for 4 years

[fringe sphinx]

What did they study then? My advice would be specific to their degree/background.

[dusk citrus]

Uhhh a stem degree like perhaps an EE or an ME

[fringe sphinx]

I don't really understand what you're asking. But; a HS student has limited free time and motivation/interest is often fleeting. Doing useful things and seeing results is good at that stage: learning to do interesting things is more satisfying and motivating than learning abstract things.

[dusk citrus]

Well i was curious what the primary difference would be in the advice you offered a person with an undergrad degree (in engineering, for instance) vs someone in high school assuming no time constraints and other possibly external influencing factors (motivation/interest/etc.)

[fringe sphinx]

Advice for what? Someone with a degree is probably applying to jobs, and will land interviews, so the advice would be specific to landing a job.

Someone in HS is a long way from applying to engineering jobs, most of which require Uni degrees.

So, for someone in HS, the goal would be to set them on a path where they're ready for Uni

[dusk citrus]

Hmm makes sense. In particular, if said engineer was trying to learn domain specific skills that might require cs expertise ig, but i'm not sure what specifically

[open ivy]

Can it be easier to start a business than get a job in some circumstances? Some people say this about those with "unusual" or "unique" projects. But I wonder if that's not the case and it's better instead to target niche jobs?

[peak halo]

I think starting a business would be harder. you need to know how to do the technical thing that you're trying to do, and know how to run a business.

[open ivy]

Makes sense. I think I need to niche on algorithm design and tool development jobs.

Who makes the libraries and frameworks that we all use? That is a challenging in a different way than learning how to use tools.

[fringe sphinx]

Focusing on a niche isn't going to help you today. It'll just mean fewer opportunities to apply to.

[open ivy]

Given that there are tens of thousands of positions to apply to in the general field of programming/data science, shouldn't I narrow this list down?

[fringe sphinx]

Why would you narrow by some niche that you don't have demonstrable expertise in?

[open ivy]

My portfolio project is a big, complex, long-term project involving designing a physics engine and coming up with ways to optimize code, among other related tasks.

So my biggest expertise is in this niche.

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, you should apply first to jobs that closely align to your experience and background. Then apply to jobs that don't.

I suspect it'll be hard to identify jobs that do or don't.

And, imo, over filtering (being more selective) is a losing strategy.

[open ivy]

Could I talk to people in small/mid-size companies? They would have a better idea of what their available roles actually entail. Much more accurate than a job description.

[fringe sphinx]

How would that help you during a job search? It'd just slow you down.

You -should- talk to people, yes. But, if the job is posted, you'd have already applied.

[open ivy]

So a combined strategy of "apply first, send email second". And can explain that I am most interested in algorithm design.

That does seem better than just applying. At least for small-midsize companies (large companies have too many layers for it to matter, although it does not hurt). And sending an email explaining it (with a mention about what in the position description matches it) is quick and easy.

[fringe sphinx]

First sentence, yes. Second sentence, no.

Don't say things that make you sound difficult, picky, eccentric, bossy, etc. I'd follow up with an email asking to learn more about the company/etc. show interest, don't show 'picky'

If you know people who work at tech companies in your area: go have a lunch or coffee with them, and listen to them. Let them talk about their company/job/etc. basic sales 101: listen

[open ivy]

That makes sense. It's thier position that has something that interests me, not the other way around.

If the position says "will need to optimize numpy code for performance ..." I can say something to the effect of "I applied to your position because it requires Python optimization, which is similar to my current project and would love to learn more."

[fringe sphinx]

💯 exactly this

[sturdy zodiac]

hi chat

[weary knot]

What are some good jobs I could get for python programming? I plan on getting a job to do with coding but don't really know what I wanna do yet, I've looked into cybersecurity which I do wanna learn but not for a job.

[fringe sphinx]

Look around you: everything you interact with uses software. The companies who make those things (more likely) use Python.... along with other languages

The range of software jobs is huge, it's easier to ask what jobs don't use software (ok, maybe not easier: just as difficult to answer)

[fringe sphinx]

You don't need to know what exact job you want, few people do. It's normal to apply to many jobs, and take the best opportunity that offers

[weary knot]

Well I've thought about looking into game design, which python may not he the best for that but I have looked into it just not really interested in it. I'll look online at a list of jobs for coding see which best appeals to me and see what jobs around me are similar or just good to do

[fringe sphinx]

What education/xp do you have?

[fringe sphinx]

Generally I'd say: when starting out, variety / breadth is more important than trying to specialize. Do things in topics you know little about.

It's just too hard to predict what knowledge is needed, and a wide foundation gives you a better perspective

[weary knot]

I'm currently 15 so don't have experience and education is basic school education, soon I'll be able to take an elective for programming, believe one of the classes I'll be able to learn python

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. Python is a good and normal choice; in many Uni's, it's the first language taught. And many professionals use it as their main language.

Learning Python isn't limiting, it's just step 1. You may learn other languages, and they get easier with more xp

[weary knot]

Yeah, main ones I wanna learn is python (currently because of bots) and Javascript for web design

[fringe sphinx]

Great plan/choices

[weary knot]

Guess I could look into jobs for web design, don't know if there are many/any for making discord bots though

But I will be learning more for python than bots so that'll help for that aspect

[sinful elk]

hey guys

I only have 8 month left for my internship program. can you please suggest me what should i do. means whether i should go for app dev or web dev or cyber security and cloud computing. man I'll do anything for intership just tell me what should i do.
please help me out!!

please DM me if you can help me with this

[prisma oyster]

hey
i think app dev for windows is kinda easy with python. you can use a tool to conver figma design to tk in python then handle the functionality in the code

it will turn out beautiful

[sinful elk]

okay but if i did this then can i get internship or not ?? bcoz if i didnt get it then my clg will fail me this the semester

[prisma oyster]

it depends on what idea you deploy and how you do it.

[deft herald]

It sounds like you don't have the luxury of choosing. Just get something

[exotic galleon]

yo

[nova root]

anyone who works in web/software development wants to fill it out and send it back to me i'd appreciate it, it's for college

[exotic galleon]

i need help so bad likely,when i open a python script it closes immed so i tryed to do like in the vids to add input() but it doesnt work,what should i do?

[vestal hedge]

are employers really impressed by leetcode websites?

[deft herald]

Probably not

[deft herald]

#❓｜how-to-get-help this channel is for career related discussion

[fringe sphinx]

Leetcode is useful to prep for -one part- of interviews. Leetcode is not sufficient preparation for a SWE job.

[deft herald]

I could maybe work on it this afternoon

[buoyant seal]

without any proof reading, giving as it is 😏

[deft herald]

12. What is the salary range?
    I just gave them my salary lol

@nova root you can use sites like levels.fyi or glassdoor to look up a "range" for whatever given paramters you want

[nova root]

@deft herald Thank you i'll do more reasearch on those sites!

@buoyant seal Thank you for filling it out! i'm finally able to stop searching for people lol

[quick gate]

Are there anyone working in London? I am currently doing a backend role in python but I dont know what other companies use python and pays better than my current one?

[vapid jay]

People keep talking about AI and how it’s going to be replacing many jobs in 2025. Is this true or false? Also how about with backend development? I’m working towards that right now.

[peak halo]

It's not something you need to plan around

[peak halo]

Glassdoor would be the best place to answer this

[devout cradle]

hi, im new

[burnt glade]

Hey

[burnt glade]

Welcome to the server!

[sinful elk]

thanks for helping me mate.

[hearty island]

guys, what tips do you have for documentation? i’m working on clearer technical writing.

it’s a huge part of my role

[graceful dock]

what is technical writing? show some samples

[hearty island]

https://hbr.org/2014/11/how-to-improve-your-business-writing

https://www.hbsp.harvard.edu/product/7724BC-PDF-ENG

https://lawprose.org/bryan-garner/books-by-bryan-garner/hbr-guide-to-better-business-writing/

i get memos and exec summaries to write every day cuz of my role

i am getting better, but i’m curious if anyone has tips. my boss has tons of exp but doesn’t necessarily help me

[dapper bane]

Hey what are the odds of getting selected in japanese visa sponorship jobs ? @fringe sphinx

[graceful dock]

did you check Udemy courses?

[hearty island]

yessir

[graceful dock]

me too

[hearty island]

i really like that harvard guide tho

[near ocean]

How would he know lol

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/bobawooyo-dog-confused-dog-huh-dog-meme-shocked-dog-gif-16713203299056947073

[dapper bane]

Goddammit I spent hours doing there challenge

[near ocean]

Why? Do you want to work in japan?

[dapper bane]

I do not I just saw the opportunity

[hearty island]

take it from my dad who works for a japanese company. don’t work in japan.

they will drink your blood

[dapper bane]

Well indian companies are going to drink my blood too and pay lesser

[hearty island]

fair fair
didn’t know you were from india man. i’m indian too

but i was born in the states lol

[dapper bane]

Do u have experience ?

[hearty island]

yea, i graduated in may of 2024 and now i work for a financial firm. basically like the SEC

[dapper bane]

How much xp u have ?

[hearty island]

started in july

[dapper bane]

I started in may

[proud glacier]

HENNGE?

[dapper bane]

There was this but I did not apply on this

[proud glacier]

oh, which one then?

[dapper bane]

I am lying down I ll make a message and ping u when I get on computer

[dapper bane]

What do you think are the odds ? I think there are none

[proud glacier]

depends on the company

[near ocean]

The chances you'll be given a visa sponsorship on a whim? 0

[hearty island]

literally 0

[dapper bane]

I spent all the time doing the challenge

[proud glacier]

which company?

[dapper bane]

I just told give me sometime I am lying down taking a break

[proud glacier]

...ok

[dapper bane]

F it man leave it there are no odds

All I have is 1.5 years of some xp including open source that's all

[proud glacier]

some companies do hire internationally

[dapper bane]

I have contributions in codebases with millions of users but ... 😭

[proud glacier]

hey, like me
well, ping me when you find time to write the name of the company

[dapper bane]

Where do u contribute

I contribute to like 5-6 companies

[proud glacier]

so far KDE on Linux
trying to contribute to the kernel this year (one small patch accepted, but nothing to write about yet)

[dapper bane]

That's just 1 project

[proud glacier]

it's a bunch of projects under one community

[dapper bane]

Ah I see

[dapper bane]

How many contributions u have on total ongoing and merged ?

[proud glacier]

213 merged
11 open (read: stuck)

[dapper bane]

Wtf that many ?

Damn bro

[proud glacier]

it's over several years lol

[dapper bane]

Why u applying to web jobs if u work on linux ?

[proud glacier]

I don't mind web dev (esp backend) work

[fleet reef]

I love backend
I HATE frontend

[dapper bane]

Damn bro they are definitely gonna select u

[proud glacier]

there's more openings compared to Linux systems programming jobs, for sure

[dapper bane]

All I have is a bunch of frontend PRs

[proud glacier]

who's they?

[dapper bane]

Bluesky, freecodecamp, usememos, mattermost and few I am working on are lazy git

There might be few more though reviews are taking forever to get

Did u apply at HENNGE ?

Wait lemme see what that is on mobile

[proud glacier]

yeah, for their internship
got interviewed, it was nice, but the slot I wanted was already full and the other didn't align with my schedule. will try again next year.
if you want to work in JP you should definitely consider applying

[dapper bane]

Can u dm me ur resume after stripping information I really wanna see

I want to see ur contributions too

[proud glacier]

sure

[dapper bane]

Do u know React and React Native? I mean since u r a linux dev

[proud glacier]

React yes, React Native no

[dapper bane]

that is what I was thinking

[dapper bane]

@near ocean wdy think ?

[uncut bay]

Does anyone recommend a certain roadmap/guide to become a software engineer I can follow? I feel like if I just follow the 'build projects and learn' path, I won't learn important things like data structures and algorithms, and preparing for job interviews.

[sullen gazelle]

Can anyone help me find an internship in web development or in python.

Done small projects in streamlit python .

https://github.com/Akhil-vk18

[still cove]

yupp

[pine sleet]

there isn't a static roadmap that will guarantee a job after. you should make projects, it's generally the best way to learn. as for not learning things like DSA, if your projects are fairly interesting you'll learn some. but there are courses online for free that teach things like DSA

[true harness]

cs degrees are good for forcing you to learn fundamentals

[pine sleet]

^ if you're not going for a cs degree you'll need to figure out some way to motivate yourself and stick with learning it

[sullen gazelle]

Thanks.
Please let me know how to get one.

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[still condor]

!cban @limber thunder ads

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @limber thunder permanently.

[dusk forge]

does anyone currently work in AI/ML? what skills did you need to learn for the job? and if you feel comfortable saying, what's your salary?

was also wondering if those positions can be worked remotely

[peak halo]

I work in AI/ML. A bachelors degree with AI/ML coursework is the barest minimum--you usually need a masters. You would learn the skills you need while getting the masters.

[dusk forge]

I appreciate the answer. By the way, have you heard of students getting a scholarship for such a degree?

[peak halo]

I have

!cban 889597462585696256 porn

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @magic basin permanently.

[dusk forge]

that's good to know, hopefully they'll give me some opportunities, assuming I have a reasonable GPA naturally.

[still cove]

i will let you know , new batch will start soon

[fringe sphinx]

Besides practical work, you should balance that with exploring new topics. My general rule is - intentionally pick topics you know the least about -

• Review the core (required) curriculum of major CS programs. Most are fairly similar.
• Review the elective/optional courses: you'll find that most CS programs have a wide range of electives - breadth is important for SWEs
• Watch conference videos to get familiar with the current topics in a specific area. For example, I like watching PyCon and EuroPython videos to see what's new / current.
• Get involved in an open source project that you use / are interested in. Learning how OSS works and how to make meaningful contributions (not just code) is a useful exercise.

[opaque olive]

guys

someone can fixe my code on python that work on fish roblox game

[deft herald]

Is that breaking roblox tos?

[lost cypress]

billybobby the goat

i got a faang interview for new grad later today got any last minute advice or motivation 😁

i think youve gave me good interview advice multiple times and it helped ease nerves lol

[fringe sphinx]

Advice? Be calm if you don't know the answer to something. It's expected. Take a breath, ask a clarifying question, be honest, explain your thought process.

Good interviewers aren't just finding out what you know, they also want to find out who you are.

[lost cypress]

thanks so much, i really appreciate it!

[rancid sorrel]

Hi guys, can u suggest any website where I can find some easy gigs to make and get some money and experience in python coding? I mean I'm beginning student of data science bachelors program in uni and due to some reasons I now have a lot of time and thinking about getting working experience

[lost cypress]

they just emailed me an hour prior to the interview time saying the interviewer had to reschedule so now I am about to provide additional time slots for next week probably 😅

[deft herald]

Yeah that happens. Theyve got real work to do and unfortunately interviewing takes a back seat sometimes

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to practice: practice not knowing the answer. It's easy to answer a question when you know it. Handling the unknown gracefully and professionally is much harder.

[lost cypress]

For sure

[lost cypress]

Great practice tip for sure

[near ocean]

companies are looking for degrees

[frail tulip]

Hey I am almost completed my website and want to launch my site. But before I launch it I was thinking of finding a startup founder. Do you think the best place to look is my local city subreddit on reddit? Or are there better places?

When I am finding my startup founder do you think it is a bad idea to try to make a post on how I am looking for a friend + a startup cofounder ?

Also how do I make sure the code isn’t stolen by the potential confounder? Any other advice would be helpful. Thanks

Just FYI I am a amateur coder and the current idea will be a non profit website. So I need someone who can double check the code even though the code works.

Here is what I want from the co founder.

I am looking for a professional coder someone who codes for a living.
Also I am looking for a coder who can help me expand if the traffic/growth increases.

If this idea is successful I want help add features.
Also I need someone that I can bounce future ideas off of and tell me if the idea is any good and work on future ideas together.

Potentially help with a business plan. I might also need marketing but I rather find a co founder who can code first.

Also in order to accept donations do I need to register for a non profit in canada? I just want to pay for running the site I just want to pay for the cost of running the site as of now

Please ping on reply if anyone has any suggestions.

[lime rune]

Message me, I dont mind looking over your code for you

[frail tulip]

I doubt you live in the same city as me

From a logistics perspective I don't think it will work
And do you know flask

[lime rune]

i dont live in the same city as you but i can look over your code and give you a few comments from myself?

[lime rune]

im not going to take your code dont worry

[frail tulip]

I will think about it its almost finished its not completely finished

[lime rune]

what do you need doing?

[frail tulip]

Adding some admin which won't take long and just fixing some bootstrap 5 to make it look nicer

[lime rune]

okok well mention me or send it me privatly and ill have a look over

[frail tulip]

I honestly just prefer advice on a good place to post my original comment for example is reddit a good place and advice on my post

[frail tulip]

Once I find my startup partner if you want to volunteer because no one will making money I can message you in a few weeks or few months but no promises I message sorry

[lime rune]

i dont want any money for it lol

[frail tulip]

Like I said I will think about it I really want someone in the same city thanks though sorry if I am being difficult like stated after everything is organized I might message you back

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 9 , not a place to hire people, <@&831776746206265384>

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[light elm]

😱

[still condor]

!warn @polar terrace You have been told in the past that you can't offer work here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @polar terrace.

[light elm]

Woah

[noble glacier]

suggestions about which platforms to use to hire developers? more specifically data science devs who can make sense of data and forecast prices and trends. idk how good fiver is. I see people complaining that the people they pay used AI for like the whole thing. I'm thinking maybe a legit company that specializes in this stuff could be better

[pine sleet]

like a consulting company?

[noble glacier]

ig

anyone who could help me solve this problem. I've tried but I'm no where near smart enough to write my own code

[maiden dagger]

ugh rejection emails are so much better than silence, but also make you feel so much like shit

[dapper bane]

does this look right it is a cover letter I wrote I want to keep it short ```
Dear Hiring Manager,

I am a Full Stack Mobile Developer with more than a year of experience. I have worked in fast-
paced startup environments with aggressive deadlines, allowing me to adapt quickly and deliver
high-quality solutions under pressure.

I have contributed to open-source projects such as Bluesky (30M+ users), FreeCodeCamp,
UseMemos, Mattermost, and LazyGit, working with large-scale systems and collaborating with
global communities to enhance software quality and user experience. My experience maintaining and
improving codebases with millions of users has strengthened my ability to follow best practices for
scalability and performance. Some of my pull requests are still ongoing, reflecting my continued
engagement in improving these platforms.
I am eager to bring my experience and adaptability to your team. ```

[undone phoenix]

Did they mention the reason ?

[opaque charm]

Hey do you need to complete high school to be able to work as a lets say developer?

[buoyant seal]

70%+ of developers tend to have Higher Education / graduated university at least

Probably the data can be skewed, by people not having education not participating in the study very much.
So it can be data at the level of... online research how many people use internet. Research showed 100% 😏

[final ravine]

Bluesky isn't open source...?

[dapper bane]

it is
can u google first before saying ?

[final ravine]

The client is open source

[final ravine]

I'd probably focus more on what the contributions were, eg mention the repo slug and the type of contribution

[dapper bane]

this is just a cover letter in the resume it is mentioned with PRs links

[final ravine]

I read the 1 year experience, and the contributions and it doesn't seem congruent. I'm also not sure it's focused enough on the requirements from the job advert (because I don't know what those are). Do you have a word limit?

[maiden dagger]

the classic, we have had more applications than expected and couldn't give everyone qualified the position.

I think this is an important thing to remember, that no matter how qualified you are, external factors (budgets, resources etc) that you cant control can always get in the way.

[buoyant seal]

I encountered before a company https://vacuumlabs.com/
I haven't dealt with them personally beyond going through interview with them, but they seem to be concentrated on data science related stuff

[buoyant seal]

may be company not that specialized on data science can be a better pick? https://noveogroup.com/ or some another one

my personal experience with vacuumlabs was that they were having somewhat funny interview, where they were looking for some patterns common to data scientist to solving DSA.
And they prefered not to see a person that writes stuff from the point view of a maintainable code 😅

[undone phoenix]

I agree

What am doing right now is tailoring cv + personal projects for the job post so I could increase the odds

[fringe sphinx]

Honest feedback: It's fairly standard, a bit generic but not catchy. And it doesn't say anything the resume doesn't.

[fringe sphinx]

That is so true. Chance is a big factor.

[fringe sphinx]

Wow, what could go wrong 😑

[lunar quail]

Hi guys im 16y.o and i want to improve my skill and What do you think I should focus on Job prospects

[fringe sphinx]

Build projects. Things that interest you. Keep building things, and you'll get good quickly. Job prospects: don't focus - do a variety of projects - do a game, a web app, a raspberry pi project, a terminal app, a chatbot, etc... lots of different things make you good.

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lunar quail]

So don't focus on just one thing right?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes: You can do one thing at a time, but over the next year or two, do many different things.

[lunar quail]

After I Mastered python, what should I learn next?

[buoyant seal]

yeah.. and that was interview for supposed to be python backend position.
single interview / 1 met person is not the reason to judge entire company though
may be average temperature in company is better

Also a lot of water changed in 3 years since that happened anyway for me at least

[fringe sphinx]

When you reach that point, you'll know.

[lunar quail]

Thanks for helping me

[fringe sphinx]

The other thing that helps is to hang out in #python-discussion , you'll learn something new every day. There's beginners and experts there

[lunar quail]

Okey 🫡

[silver oyster]

hello

helloiii

i want to ask something guyyss

[dapper bane]

What would u do ?

[neon mica]

Hello guys I' ve a problem with fetch the sheets via google api. Do you have any tip on how to fix a 503 error in python

[fringe sphinx]

Say something about why you want to work for them. That you've done your homework. Connect you to them. But don't put too much time into it, because they probably won't read it anyway. Something short and catchy. 'I'm El Grando Smokio, what you're doing in XYZ is really awesome. I saw the article about <your company> in Wired and I'm excited about building AI-enabled goldfish translators. My background in marine biology and fish NLP is uniquely suited to this problem."

[eager barn]

Is someone up for pair programming?

[outer iron]

how to fix

[peak halo]

Hello, please read #❓｜how-to-get-help. Remember to always show text as text (not a screenshot)

[solemn thistle]

@eager barn hey I'm interested to learn python but I'm a complete beginner

[noble glacier]

Thanks for such detailed responses! Something I noticed was that a lot of these companies want a business name but I don’t have a business, will they still work with me?

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

QR1 sales are working like magic

[peak halo]

What is this?

[buoyant seal]

Uh. first some disclosure, i work in outsourcing company, the noveo one mentioned.

Secondly... at the beginning of my work there i participated in small projects handling too.
And in coding review of projects too.

So as far as i am aware, different clients/projects are Code reviewed/evaluated by devs for the state of your coding affairs, complexity of a task
and then the devs present in the company get matched to the case (or extra vacancy to hire needed person is opened)
If both parties agree on involved payments/deadlines, then the task is taken into work.

Outsourcing company work with different cases, with cases that can require only a week of effort
With long term clients with which they work for years as well.

It is only a question of evaluation i guess? Seeing how much the client is adequate to work with and if negotiated payments / matched workers present up to the task
And if obviously outsourcing company has freed dev resources to meet the task / or can find necessary one in reasonable timelines, stuff like that

[deft herald]

wrong chat window

[buoyant seal]

So... they will work with you even if u have small thing that takes only a week, but there will be evaluation regarding how much... adequate you are (if to be brutally honest) to deal with and your project, and if u can actually provide the payments negotiated
Some negotiations will be made i estimate regerading realism of your demands

I noticed company deals only with business legal entities though, with (even smallest) startups and bigger. I don't know if they deal with physical entities

[noble glacier]

Ohh. Okay cool thanks, I’ll keep all that you said in mind. I’m just gonna try my best and see what happens. Idk what’s classified as a big or small project so I guess there’s only one way to find out. Thanks a ton

[buoyant seal]

i estimate they provide evaluation as part of their services (probably it is may be even for free?)
Obviously, they can't make agreement/contract with you, if they did not estimate realism of your requests first.
high ranked enough devs will help to review as mentioned, and main department figure with rich dev background will be making final decisions i estimate

[noble glacier]

Noted, worth shooting my shot then

[buoyant seal]

I like how department managers are all with quite rich dev experience, heck even the one matching my job roles. Easy to appreciate managers when they are actually real devs.
Like my department head person/manager is clearly smart backend dev/devops engineer. So as person with same job role, i feel easy to trust him regarding decisions?
Anyway, people are friendly and things can be asked. Do try. 🙂

I heard about outsourcing companies that can be quite a shithole though. That can be having very bad situations. I am glad that at least my company at the level of all devs is people friendly and healthy

[noble glacier]

Yeah, seems like a pretty complicated field so proper experience definitely seems ideal

[noble glacier]

How could I tell whether a company was in a good situation or not?

[buoyant seal]

My company is without any... things that descriminate its workers, making people regret being part of a corporate workforce 😏
Even task report tracking is built upon things not being invasive and being friendly to people.

[buoyant seal]

i guess review searching? there probably should be plenty of reviews, trust smth service named, with reviews about every company
But besides that can help i guess just to reach its workers i guess and ask, if u really want to know if reviews are actually matching real situation.
I estimate any known company has at least by LinkedIn all its workers findable, and from there all the different contacts can be found for different people
Everyone is findable in today's age of... too many links in internet social medias 😅

[noble glacier]

Sounds good, thanks so much. Is it fine if I ping you if I think of any more questions, whether it’s general or about noveo specifically?

[buoyant seal]

okay

[grim elm]

I’m building in AI and need a sharp engineer excited about AI agents. If you love LLMs, automation, and pushing the limits of what AI can do, let’s talk.

[deft herald]

Not the place to recruit

[near ocean]

You're not pushing any limits in a team of (currently) 1

[vapid jay]

Hello

I'm thinking about applying for software engineering, what do you guys think?

[peak halo]

For a software engineering degree?

[vapid jay]

yes

[vapid jay]

I'm thinking about, and I'm almost 100% sure

[peak halo]

computer science is more established than software engineering. but there are probably cases where the two are equivalent.

[vapid jay]

I was more thinking about the payment and what I like the most

[peak halo]

the payment, as in, how much you would be paid for jobs that require a software engineering degree?

or the cost of the degree for you to pay?

[vapid jay]

nah the cost is for free

[deft herald]

(not in the US)

[vapid jay]

I'm doing it in a federal university (or I'll apply for BYU)

[peak halo]

are you Mormon?

[vapid jay]

actually I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

but yes, everybody knows it as mormons

[peak halo]

Believe me, I know.
BYU is very affordable. I thought I heard more non-Mormons were considering applying for the low tuition.

[vapid jay]

It is, but I'm not from USA, but BYU has BYU Pathway (long distance education)

[peak halo]

My sister started the Pathway program. I don't recommend it.

[vapid jay]

I wanted to go there and study physically, not from far

That's why I'm applying for any university in Brazil in case I can't go with study visa

[solemn ember]

Hi , i cannot speak!!

i do not have the permission to speak!

[peak halo]

@vapid jay it looks like at BYU, the software engineering degree is offered by the computer science department. which is probably the best way to get a software engineering degree.

[vapid jay]

so basically I'd have to apply for a computer science degree?

[peak halo]

Yes

[vapid jay]

I didn't want to apply for computer science because some say that it's more hardware than software

[peak halo]

That's not right.

[vapid jay]

and I'm really into just coding yknow

[vapid jay]

Could you explain me a little about computer science?

[peak halo]

it's mostly about algorithms and programming

[vapid jay]

and what's the difference between software engineering and computer science? (if its not too much of a quesiton)

[peak halo]

by the way, if you go to BYU, in how many years will that be?

in principle, computer science is a branch of theoretical math about algorithms, and software engineering is only about designing and creating software systems. but in practice, computer science is the main programming degree, for historic reasons.

[vapid jay]

thats why I wanted software engineering

pretty easy ig... desingning and programming

all that and a payment of $120K anually

[fringe sphinx]

It's a good field. Easy is probably not a healthy way to look at it tho. If you enjoy it, and like learning & solving problems, it's a great field. But it's constant learning.

And while SWEs are paid well, there are many fields that also pay well.

[vapid jay]

That just sounds like me. I'm always learning and always solving problems

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, while it's not "easy", I enjoy it. Work doesn't feel like work.

[vapid jay]

but I like creating things too, like text-based games and all that, but idk, SE its THE thing for me

[vapid jay]

exactly, imagine going to work or even working at home and actually not working but coding

[fringe sphinx]

That's great. That's healthy. My usual advice is: seek variety. Don't limit yourself early: explore the things you know the least about.

[light kraken]

Hey! Is this channel for beginner questions, or is there a specific one for that?

[pine sleet]

this channel is for career questions in general. you can ask beginner questions in #python-discussion though

[plush summit]

Not a real student from waterloo they look like this:

[strange socket]

Should I take just basic level statistics or up to statistics with calculus for my BSc: CompSci degree

[fringe sphinx]

Many programs require stats with calc, I dunno about yours.

basic stats is often for the business majors.

(at least, in my experience)

[turbid idol]

Hi,
With hands-on experience across a diverse tech landscape, I thrive at the intersection of creativity and technology.

Frontend Wizardry: I specialize in React, Vue, and Angular, crafting dynamic and user-centric interfaces that not only engage users but also provide a seamless experience across devices.

Backend Architect: My backend arsenal includes Node.js, Express, PHP, CodeIgniter, Laravel, and Symfony. I’m committed to building resilient server architectures that power high-performance applications.

Blockchain Enthusiast: With a solid understanding of both EVM and UTXO models, I am passionate about harnessing blockchain technology to create decentralized solutions that redefine trust in digital transactions.

Programming Polyglot: Fluent in Go (with Gin framework), Python, and Java, I embrace the challenge of selecting the best tool for each project, ensuring optimal efficiency and performance.

[peak halo]

Just so you know, you can't look for jobs here.

[strange socket]

my college (associates) doesnt require it, but when I transfer to a uni for the last 2 years, I'll know then. I could check all 3 potential schools' curricula

[azure mango]

Hopefully people read this channel so I don't have to put this in general

Is anyone in here a team lead or hiring manager or something ? Specifically in fields like robotics, aerospace, automotive, autonomous vehicles, things like that.

I need to know if it's worth pursuing personal hardware related projects or if that tends to be irrelevant on a resume

Context is I'm an 8 YoE systems test engineer with a focus on automated testing, trying to push down the stack, so some HIL work and embedded testing, but I don't have much of that on my resume (it's been mostly high level stuff so far)

I've got a few partially finished side projects, stuff related to OpenPilot, my EV conversion project, but idk how worthwhile that is on a resume

My question is if it's worth finishing some of those off and putting them on my personal GitHub and website and mentioning them on my resume, OR if nobody cares about that crap In the industry and it's a huge waste of time and I should just be grinding leetcode instead

[balmy spade]

We do read this channel. :)

Personal projects are now, and will remain for the foreseeable future, extremely valuable. They probably won't over-shadow 8 years of experience in the field but they are talking points for your resume and interview. Beyond that, you'll grow in skill and knowledge well outside the box your job gives you through such projects.

If you find passion in the work, the problem solving, and the results then yes; continue with those side projects and share them. Worse-case, you learn something you didn't know before and are that much more valuable elsewhere.

[fringe sphinx]

Also: I don't think any projects are rarely either useless or critical . The goal is learning... projects are just a sign of your personal pursuit of knowledge. They give the interviewer some insight into who you are, and what they can ask you about.

Grinding leetcode is very low on my list of things to do, especially if you have 8YoE. But: if you're interviewing for a coding job, easy leetcodes should be easy.

[balmy spade]

I love hearing about projects that start with "I didn't know how to do this, I was curious, and so I built..." at an interview. Checks so many boxes off for me, personally.

[fleet reef]

I learned so much that way
I rebuilt the same microservice in four different languages just to try stuff out

[steady garnet]

lets just say im done with python. is it better if i progress towards ai or website developpement

[peak halo]

AI is way more degree-requiring than web development. It's also an application of math and statistics. If you're excited at the prospect of getting an advanced CS degree and learning about math and statistics, then AI is a great career. Otherwise, don't do that.

[steady garnet]

aight thx

[fringe sphinx]

It's an odd question anyway. Why are those the only two choices? What does "done with python" mean? etc. More context would be nice.

[steady garnet]

idk i just asking. its like about job opportunities

[fringe sphinx]

There's more than 2 jobs out there, tho.

[steady garnet]

ik but its like the two things id like to do

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, good answer then 🙂

[summer roost]

Those happen to be two very visible jobs that everyone has heard of. Maybe those are the two things you're interested in doing because you don't know what all else is out there.

[pine sleet]

tell that to the people on r/csmajors

[summer roost]

The job I do is one I wouldn't have known existed had you asked me in high school. I'm betting that's true for lots of coders

[hearty island]

the job i do is powerpoint monke

[peak halo]

you don't do programming?

[hearty island]

not anymore

[versed turtle]

Ok. Real talk.

Do I really gotta grind leetcode to get myself a job? I've been doing it and it seems like a grueling and slow process. I know I can learn projects and create projects pretty well but I just feel like there's a need to grind Leetcode more so I can get a job quicker(with my Software Diploma), all the best.

[hearty island]

i don’t believe you need to grind leetcode for a role. get good projects.

[summer roost]

I don't think grinding leetcode is too valuable. Once you've taken a data structures and algorithms course, you should be able to do most problems on leetcode without too much trouble. It can be useful practice, but you'll hit the point of diminishing returns on that practice pretty quickly, I think

[azure mango]

I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say it's extremely valuable to grind leetcode because it's still like the most common kind of question asked for tech screen interviews, and leetcode problems are very different from actual real world problems, so it's a skillset adjacent to but separate enough from actual software dev that it's another skill you need to train

However once you can reliably solve most leetcode mediums you see within 30 minutes, you're good to go

[summer roost]

I agree with that. I just also think most people who have taken a DS&A course can hit that point within a week or two of practicing

leetcode is very different from real world coding, but very similar to DS&A homework

[peak halo]

For those reading this who are looking for AI positions, know that I was never asked a single leetcode question

[versed turtle]

thanks man

[glacial ferry]

which AI company do you work for?

i worked for Outlier this past year, pretty good gig

[balmy spade]

To me, leetcode seems like a great way to stretch problem solving skills if you aren't already comfortable with them. If you grind leetcode, you'll be good at leetcode. Always think outside of a single scoped solution or application.

((I've also never been asked a leetcode question and I'm a software engineer))

[peak halo]

I don't say the name of my company in public channels

[glacial ferry]

um, okay? funny way to passively mention your job and then refuse to elaborate

how many pages was that NDA? /s

[balmy spade]

Some of us don't enjoy mentioning the company we work for or with. :) In public channels, that is.

[glacial ferry]

ahh, true. i forgot abt doxxing for a sec

[peak halo]

All of them.

At the company whose offer I accepted is not material. None of the companies asked me algorithm and data structure questions.

[glacial ferry]

the only reason i know abt linguistics is noam chomsky, how does computational linguistics work?

[summer roost]

robot noam chomsky

[crimson crow]

💀

[true turtle]

!ban 1149494367791357992 racism

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @ornate bridge permanently.

[vapid jay]

Chat, what kind of python knowledge should I acquire for this position?

[drifting pawn]

python isn't really the relevant prerequisite there, the one at the top saying completion of 3rd year in relevant degree probably is

[final ravine]

It's not clear, do they give a years of experience needed?

[drifting pawn]

most of the skills should from courses you'd take in college.. but seems like the role is generally a hardware / embedded role so python is not the key focus

[vapid jay]

What can I expect to be scripting in this role?

I haven’t done much scripting other than working with csv, excel, some file management, and pyautogui

[final ravine]

When do you expect to be applying for this role?

[vapid jay]

It happens every year in the summer. But I’m shooting for next summer.

[final ravine]

Will you be applying for other roles?

[vapid jay]

For this summer? No, I have classes this enitre year

[final ravine]

You can apply for multiple summer internships

If you're not unsuccessful with a few you weren't aiming high enough

Putting all your hopes in one role is not a good stratitude

[vapid jay]

That’s so true.

But still, learning python wouldn’t hurt in the long run

[final ravine]

Is there anything you could be learning other than python?

[summer roost]

Probably significantly less than the amount of C and Verilog you need. I'm betting they use Python either for some data analysis, or as a glue language for hooking up some programs written in other languages to each other.
That said, if you do already know C, you can probably learn Python to a passable level in a week just by following the official tutorial

[final ravine]

Probably for an internship that's got mixed C and Python they will want you to be writing glue code. So you should be able to take a csv and clean it into a list of pydantic objects or pandas df, write an algorithm in a jupyter notebook, take a jupyter notebook and turn it into a program. Maybe you'll need to learn some concurrency on trivially parelleizable workloads so the benefits of free-threading vs multiprocessing, using dask, using concurrent.futures and logging progress with tqdm?

[summer roost]

Sounds about right to me

[final ravine]

What file types are relevant to your degree

[summer roost]

Honestly "scripting languages and/or Python" sounds like they'd be fine with bash too. They're not using Python for much

[final ravine]

Also looks like they're happy with a compsci intern that somehow knows varilog

There's also only 3 musts in the list

[summer roost]

Either that, or they think that they can teach enough Python to get by to someone who already knows C

[vapid jay]

It’s a primarily EE/CE internship

[final ravine]

Do you know how they interview for it?

What's EE/CE?

[vapid jay]

They don’t teach python in EE/CE, so I’m learning on my own.

[vapid jay]

Electrical Engineering/ Computer Engineering

[summer roost]

But you do know C?

[vapid jay]

Yea

[summer roost]

Do you know any object oriented language? Java, C#, C++, something like that?

[vapid jay]

Yes, python is the only item from that list which I do not know.
Not knowing is an overstatement. I have done basic csv, excel, file management but I don’t know exactly what the role requires scripting in haha

[summer roost]

Then start with https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

Python is very similar to Java or C# in a lot of ways, you should be able to pick it up very quickly

The biggest difference as far as the object model goes are that Python has no primitives, everything is an object, and that Python has no access control (no private/protected etc)

[final ravine]

There's some learning needed for virtual environments and dependency setup

[summer roost]

Yeah, package management and project setup don't really translate between languages, but at least learning the language itself should be pretty easy

[vapid jay]

Thank you

[final ravine]

You could also call them up and ask

[ember crest]

Everyone shut up and listen to this

[near ocean]

Is any of this related to careers

[ember crest]

A cute intermission suggesting that adrian is going places and making cute things

Carry on

[fringe sphinx]

Let's not post random nonsense here.

[austere plume]

Need person to do interview coach and give feedback. Good pay if you speak English well, up to $100/hr. Fully remote, part time.

[near ocean]

!rule 9 Nobody reads the rules anymore 😩

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[safe ice]

https://lu.ma/fyu8iqnk

[dense parrot]

hey anyone got any good courses for AI

like model creation

[pseudo harbor]

Heyy can anyone tell me is python only used for machine learning or I can in any other field even??

[dense parrot]

i wanna learn how to make models using numpy and stuff

not scikit-learn

[peak halo]

if it looks like people only used python for ML, it's because within ML, the only language is pretty much just Python.
but there are other fields where Python is one of several popular languages, like web development.

[dense parrot]

Django

[pseudo harbor]

Can python even be used for app development , data scientist??

[atomic wigeon]

Should i learn python with Django or mern stack / Springboot

Litle background:
I know C++ and currently doing dsa in it.
I also recently learned basic python and python with flask.
I want to go into AI/ml and data science in python but i fear that as a fresher i won't be able to get the desired roles with no experience so i would need development skills as initial boost to my career.

[deft herald]

development skills do not necessairly have to be web dev

[atomic wigeon]

Please elaborate, i m new to development field

[deft herald]

Just saying the jobs out there with python aren't restricted to either web dev or AI&ML

So basically, no you don't need to learn Django, but sure, you could

[final ravine]

app development yes, data scientist no

[deft herald]

data scientist no
wat?

[final ravine]

You can't use python for data scientist

[mighty mason]

Hi is there anyone here that does like Python for mathematical programming? So I guess like sparse matrices, data science , machine learning theory type of stuff. I just have a few questions thank you

[peak halo]

Hello, go to #data-science-and-ml and ask your actual question. Don't ask to ask.

[open ivy]

Everyone complains at how tight finances are.

But many still use a car and avoid roommates. So I think people sometimes just like to complain. Talk is cheap.

I would rather live right near my work, go car-free and get roommates, and spend the day outside of the apartment. Would companies (if not remote) like me having such an easy 10 minute walking commute?

[fringe sphinx]

It certainly factors into my hiring decision: I/we have always preferred to hire people with short commutes: it's better for retention and job satisfaction

[open ivy]

I am tempted just to split a one-bedroom wherever the job is. So move to my next job. Unless remote.

[prisma abyss]

what kind of tech careers will be made obsolete with AI?

[drifting pawn]

who knows

[prisma abyss]

nvm i asked chat gpt which gave a good answer lol

[inner wren]

Please react with ✅ to upload your file(s) to our paste bin, which is more accessible for some users.

[balmy spade]

Now that's comedic gold right there. Not only has AI proven difficult, unreliable, or ineffective in those specific applications but OpenAI is hiring humans for all of those positions. Since that's the apparent source of the answer, whew... that's funny.

To your question: What type of tech careers will be made obsolete with AI? The answer is the same as it was before AI. Those that don't apply themselves, growing their own skills, will find themselves replaced.

[final ravine]

There might be a lot of software training and software architecture roles in the future. At best ChatGPT lowers the on ramp to programming to the point where bosses will expect more employees in more roles to be writing software. This will result in more software without tests and sensible architectures and frameworks or even concepts like code re-use or security

[still condor]

This will result in more software without tests and sensible architectures and frameworks
Excel is the world's most popular functional programming language 🙂

seriously though, we gotta replace Excel with something that has the same convenience but without the insane stuff (i.e.: provide types for columns, remove implicit date parsing and such)

Something like this maybe https://www.getgrist.com/

[final ravine]

Maybe we could use Access? It has forms?

[sacred vapor]

Yo tysm fr I did good in my exam

[ornate violet]

hi python its good for a devops ?

[buoyant seal]

Yes, python is really good at scripting. Though python will flare 10 times better if u will sprinkle it with unit testing

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample

If u will add even some mypy/pyright it will flare even nicer for long term maintained scripts

[ornate violet]

thix bro

[buoyant seal]

Nevertheless after python it is really really good idea for DevOps engineers to invest into Golang heavily. All server infra tools are made with it, and u could go making your Dev side strong while solving infra challenges with it
Like making your own Terraform Provider
Also perfect for any CI tools, micro backends, kubernetes customizations

[ornate violet]

my next question its python good for a firewalls

like xdp/ebpf

[buoyant seal]

No idea. First time hearing about xdp/ebpf
Quick googling tells
It is very low level stuff near Kernel
With which 90% people deal in C
And one brave person tried in Rust

[vapid jay]

QR1 sales are working like magic

[deft herald]

Why do you keep posting this?

[violet spire]

Ok so I am confused if I should do 6month bootcamp in data science and get a job or do my normal degree.. will it effect me in any ways if I do bootcamp first then after job then once I am financially stable.i will do degree

[urban geode]

what country are you studying in or working in?

[violet spire]

And why country matters..I want job in abroad.

[urban geode]

It matters because it gives context to your question and possible answers for it

[violet spire]

India

[urban geode]

bootcamps vary widely in quality, and there's no guarantee you could simply do better studying on your own with a good text that covers all the basics (like Python Crash Course).

[violet spire]

No they guarantee that you will get job or your money return

[urban geode]

those claims are very easy for them to make and very hard for you to get them to stick to,.

[subtle hazel]

I have a decent explanation, computer science degree is way more valuable especially if you already have 40-60 credits done

[violet spire]

But the problem is I have financial problems so I was thinking to do data science in bootcamp then get a job then do my degree after I have money and then apply for higher position in company..since I got degree also so also my question is will my experience in company which I did data science in ?Will it matters or not

Or it will only count if I do a degree and get a job in company

[subtle hazel]

Data science is actually a good pick out of all of them, google even has a Coursera that almost guarantees a 70+k job after too or something like that

Have you checked out google’s Coursera data science?

[violet spire]

Oh is it free or do I have to pay and they provide placements also?

[violet spire]

And what about this

[subtle hazel]

50 dollars a month, their python course was amazing too before starting all these coding classes in college

[violet spire]

also my question is will my experience in company which I did data science in like I did bootcamp and got a job in company so will that experience in that company counts ?Will it matters or not
Or it will only count if I do a degree and get a job in company

[subtle hazel]

I can’t answer that I’m not sure

[pine sleet]

a lot of bootcamps do that and either have some small print that lets them not or straight up just don't

there is no easy path to landing a cs job. the "easiest" (not implying that it's easy) is to get a CS degree

[violet spire]

What will be the difference between a person who self studied and got a job and gained experience there vs a person who did degree and got a job..

I mean both are gaining experience.. knowledge difference might be there

But still both got job so won't there both job experience counts?

[pine sleet]

yes, the hard part is getting that first job without a degree

[violet spire]

So I can use that job experience and apply for high roles after getting degree also

[pine sleet]

the person with a degree will find their first job far more easily than the one without

[subtle hazel]

Exaltitude on YouTube can answer these questions, she’s a straightforward ex ML engineer

[violet spire]

Send her video then

[native kettle]

https://youtu.be/gR3G-c6dB8M?si=VFFCZ7KML4-gFXc9

[violet spire]

Right?
@subtle hazel @pine sleet

[pine sleet]

kind of. people without degrees have lower salaries on average, but it becomes less of an issue the more experience you have. you're focusing on the wrong thing though, the hard part is actually getting your foot in the door

[violet spire]

Well yeah getting first job without degree might be hard but just imagine I did bootcamp and got a job and then with that salary..I got a degree and then used my previous experience and degree to go for higher roles..so I can do like that right..so I will be more far with the people who just did degree and going for job directly and also degree be little easy for me since I know some things

[pine sleet]

just imagine I did bootcamp and got a job
this part is very hard

used my previous experience and degree to go for higher roles..so I can do like that right..so I will be more far with the people who just did degree and going for job directly
i don't know what you mean by this. everyone is already doing this, regardless of if they have a degree or not

[violet spire]

Even if it's hard or something..let me try it..if I don't get job then I don't have to pay..so atleast i gain some knowledge from expert for free

[pine sleet]

you can get the same knowledge without paying for a supposed "expert" for free

[violet spire]

So you mean degree doesn't matter in getting high positions in company?Yes I did I guess because I saw some people doing degree even after having a job in computer field

Why will they did degree if they already have job that means they didn't got higher position because of no degree

[pine sleet]

i'm saying if you're 45 years old and applying to senior positions, you've had a few jobs in the past that are really good, it won't matter too much that the other senior applicants have a degree. your experience at that point matters far more

[fringe sphinx]

This is a complex topic. One dimension is: what job are you talking about. As a fact: Entry-level Software Engineering positions in most companies require a degree. You won't get an interview at a large majority of companies without one.

Another dimension is, as Robin said, your background. Everyone has a different background.

[pine sleet]

i feel like you are ignoring the hard parts. like yes obviously anything difficult will be easy if you ignore the hard parts

[violet spire]

Then why google accept people without need for degree

[pine sleet]

nobody is saying it's impossible

[fringe sphinx]

Google doesn't hire "entry-level software engineers" without a degree. (please don't cite some .00001% example, there's surely one)

[violet spire]

Then what types of job role they hire..

[fringe sphinx]

That's a great question. The tech industry is huge. There are many positions. QA, Tech Support, Operations, etc have lower requirements.

[pine sleet]

going into one of those is a decent strategy to pivot into SWE later

[violet spire]

No bro I heard a lot of people who were doing bootcamps also got a job in companies and expert also said skill matters degree doesn't and I am not self studying.. atleast doing a bootcamps right and they have placements with companies

[fringe sphinx]

Bootcamps are generally exaggerated. This job market is terrible for bootcamp(er)s.

[pine sleet]

however many people are doing bootcamps and getting jobs there are a thousand times more people doing it with a degree. it happens, but it's very difficult. it's not something i would waste my money on for a small chance

"do this one easy bootcamp and get a guaranteed faang job" is so 2021 and doesn't really work anymore

[violet spire]

Then what should I do ..Go for bootcamp and get a job or do a normal job in store and get money and do degree?Which is better..I mean if I get job bootcamp was better since I gain experience also and better for doing degree

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know your situation. Who are you? Where are you? What's your background? etc.

[violet spire]

I don't have money to do degree so I have two options from above

[pine sleet]

have you looked at financial aid, loans, grants, stuff like that? it's usually how people pay for college

[fringe sphinx]

Any experience? Any education? Is this your first job out of school? etc.

[violet spire]

No it won't work because I can't get loans since I dropped from uni so I have to now do degree with my own money then later if I go for degree then I can get loans

[violet spire]

Yes

[pine sleet]

hm. well I don't know how the financial aid system works in India but I'd recommend you do a lot more research and see if there are more options available to you than you originally believed

[fringe sphinx]

My general advice: keep learning, practicing, and try to get a job in the tech industry in any role... such as QA. A bootcamp isn't going to magically unlock the next level... but experience on your resume will.

[violet spire]

Oh so which specialisation is best in computer field which has high paying and less competition..I mean data science doesn't have a lot of competition already now?

[fringe sphinx]

None. High Paying = More Competition. Be a generalist, and specialize in whatever your job requires.

[pine sleet]

the most high paying one is going to be the one you're interested in. you'll naturally be more inclined to work harder and do more in that field which is typically good for your career

[violet spire]

Then I heard some senior roles are there...they don't do much job but just manage and guide juniors

[fringe sphinx]

As a beginner, your goal is to learn lots of different things. You can't predict what's going to be important.

Build a game. Build a webapp. Experiment with a raspberry pi. Do some data science. Explore.

Or, as the great programmer Shakira said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6rP-YP4c5I

[violet spire]

Then owner of nvidia said we will make a ai which will code things perfectly and won't need any coders

[fringe sphinx]

That's not what he said.

[pine sleet]

i would take what AI CEOs say with a grain of salt

[violet spire]

Then what was it

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, show me the video

I've seen many of his videos. His comments are nuanced.

[near ocean]

guy whose job is to sell AI overstates AI capabilities
Are you sure you wanna believe him, my guy?

[sly ibex]

I be honest Billy. This topic is very sensitive and a conflict as well.

[fringe sphinx]

wdym?

your post has been removed. Please stay on topic.

[sly ibex]

Because their are two sides to this. You have one side who says that you need a CS degree to get into SWE and then another side saying that you dont need a CS degree to get into SWE. You can just self learn.

[near ocean]

One side is employed and has years of experience in the industry

[deft herald]

I know for a fact my company won't hire entry level engineers without a Bachelor's Degree

[near ocean]

Mine would but every single bootcamp or self taught candidate bombed the interview 🤷‍♀️

[fringe sphinx]

And the other side is Reddit /snark.

[fringe sphinx]

I used very precise language in my statement: "Entry-level Software Engineering positions in most companies require a degree"

[sly ibex]

Ok but I'm just saying at times this can turn into a huge debate.

[sly ibex]

Companies don't waste time they go straight to the point

[near ocean]

I dont think there is a debate here tbh

[sly ibex]

Sometimes it can.

[fringe sphinx]

I'll just be more precise: if you want to unlock the big bucks and land a job in SWEing, a degree is all-but-required. Some people make it without, but they're few and far between.

That's my professional opinion.

[sly ibex]

That is true billy I agree with you. Their are people who make it into SWE without a degree. But the path is hard and requires extreme disciplinary and to do everything correct. For a degree in simple terms. It gives you the correct training.

I think I have the ability to get into SWE without a degree but the challenges are their.

[violet spire]

Who is studying computer science degree here?

[pine sleet]

I am

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice is: don't only look for programming jobs. Your first job might be something adjacent, like QA or IT, and that's OK.

[violet spire]

I also have a doubt bro?What if I study 2-3 specialisation like data science,full stack development,ethical hacking together then is there any job for that?@pine sleet @fringe sphinx

[pine sleet]

I don’t know if you’ll be doing all of those at the same time

but maybe. Seems like focusing on the wrong thing though

[fringe sphinx]

Studying different things is good. You never know what your next job will need.

[pine sleet]

study what you find interesting, it’s good to have a broad understanding of many fields

[violet spire]

So choose any one specialisation is good because if I do multiple specialisation then no jobs are made for that

[pine sleet]

don’t worry about specialization for now

[violet spire]

I find this 3 interesting and feel like I want to study it full but I think no job roles are there for that right in companies

[pine sleet]

imo for entry level jobs it’s more valuable to be flexible rather than be a one trick pony

[fringe sphinx]

I often say a part of this quote: “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. **Specialization **is for insects.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

[pine sleet]

if you study what you find interesting and get good at it the jobs will follow naturally

[violet spire]

I don't think..job roles are made for only one specialisation i guess

[fringe sphinx]

Not any job I've had.

[violet spire]

And is it possible to give some money to company and get internship there or passing interview is the only option

[near ocean]

You want to pay to work for someone?

[violet spire]

Just for experience

[fringe sphinx]

I've never heard of such a thing.

[near ocean]

Thats insane

[violet spire]

Then why will a person get a internship in good company..why not job too there or why not direct job there..does that means they will give internship first then after you did good then job only

[fringe sphinx]

~~The best ~~A great outcome of an internship is a return offer, yes. That means both the company and intern liked each other

[violet spire]

So it means for job..I only have to focus on one specialisation..not multiple