career-advice

[tranquil flower]

i replied did u see?

[flint harness]

dude fuck off and use chatGPT

[terse oyster]

Yea I’m starting to see that but who has the money to go to school nowadays

[tranquil flower]

me??

[pine sleet]

thats why financial aid and grants exist

[tranquil flower]

ok,

[flint harness]

Real talk tho @terse oyster, if you've survived the "real world" and know how to get things done, college is often easy if you just conceptualize and see it with a certain lens

High school and college are very different :)

[pine sleet]

yeah from what i can see folks who are going back to college after working for a bit generally tend to do better and make more of college

[flint harness]

Ye, try asking your employer to cover for your further studies

[tranquil flower]

u could say this to any question in this channel, not helpful

[terse oyster]

Ahhh i see i guess there’s no avoiding it anymore lol.

[flint harness]

Not really

No shame in it, a lot of people have been there 😄 Now, if you really want to move forward, think about it & do your due dillegence

[tranquil flower]

stop glazing lil bro

[flint harness]

aight i gotta sleep now, good luck to both of u @terse oyster @tranquil flower

[terse oyster]

I appreciate it @flint harness and @pine sleet

[flint harness]

learn to use chatGPT @tranquil flower , jokes aside

[tranquil flower]

uve just said to fuck off but sure

[desert moth]

how to find and contribute opensource? i mean what recommendations are to be considered?

[pine sleet]

it helps if it's a project you're passionate about or has an impact on you

[flint harness]

google, github, reddit, word of mouth, social media, chatrooms, etc..

[pine sleet]

you won't find yourself motivated to contribute to some random project

[balmy spade]

Contribute to the tools or projects that you, yourself, use.

[flint harness]

ye, find someothing that you're passionated in, it'll be like snorting crack

[pine sleet]

the most common way open source contributions happen is someone finds a bug in an open source program they use, and they make a PR to fix it
or they wished an app they used had a certain feature, so they add it themselves

[desert moth]

python is not much about client apps

[balmy spade]

Not all open source tools or programs are open for contributions, but many are. Start by finding something you are interested in. Then look at their issues and PRs. Learn how the project works from a support standpoint. It's a process.

[balmy spade]

That doesn't seem accurate considering how popular python is.

[flint harness]

get good

[desert moth]

as i understand it is mostly about backend and AI (not possible due to absence of videocard)

[flint harness]

yes

[balmy spade]

Those are two huge fields with hundreds and thousands of ways to apply them. No graphic's card required.

[desert moth]

tell me more about no graphic`s card required. All i found is abusing google cloud with new accounts for free trials

[balmy spade]

I may have been mistaken here, I thought the topic was contributing to open source.

[desert moth]

contributing to ai opensource included

[balmy spade]

Then my prior suggestions stands. Do you have a tool or program in that field you are currently using?

[desert moth]

no that i am aware of. ai is graphic`s card required and backend is not something to easy fork and contribute

[civic thistle]

Hello I am from europe and i would like to open a tceh startup in USA do u know how i can do it?

[pine sleet]

dont you need to register with the government

[civic thistle]

i don't know the steps

[balmy spade]

Not all AI is graphic card required. Helpful, but not a hard requirement for everything.#data-science-and-ml would have more insight to that. I don't understand the backend not being something easy to fork and contribute. Forking is one button click on most version control platforms. Contributing requires learning.

[civic thistle]

the first step is to settle in the USA but i am from europe

[balmy spade]

I imagine the first step would be to speak with a lawyer about what you need to do. But that's about all I know.

[pine sleet]

you should probably look at the state and federal ordinances for starting a business

yeah get a lawyer

[civic thistle]

so i need money to start a tech startup then

[pine sleet]

usually yes

[fast fossil]

that would make sense, yes

I mean, especially if you want to start it in another country

[civic thistle]

no i mean maybe people can help me to start it with funds

[pine sleet]

find investors

[civic thistle]

i know that if you want to make a big startup with a quick success the only way is to goto the USA

[fast fossil]

That appears to me to be a mildly flawed viewpoint. Why do you think so?
And you can enter into the market without having to actually register the business in the US
that said, do contact a lawyer

[balmy spade]

Not sure I'd call the USA a "quick success" path for startups given their current survivability rate.

[pine sleet]

thats gotta be illegal

[white relic]

You don't have to be an American business to court American investors

[near ocean]

the brightest stars burn out the fastest 🌠

[fast fossil]

wha? I meant like, you do have a registered business and like, you have a website, for example, wdym it'd be illegal for someone to visit that website from whatever country in the world and buy something off of it?

like, surely you don't have to have a registered business in every single country you want to conduct business in

[pine sleet]

oh yeah, i meant like, operating a business from the US but not being registered with whatever agency or government in the state you are operating out of

[hardy sentinel]

Python 313?

Since when did python become shia bro😭🙏

[white relic]

This is the career discussion channel

[fast fossil]

yeah, no, I meant, you do have a legal business, it's just not registered in the US, but you are serving customers in the US

[smoky quest]

Three letters: T.A.X.

[true harness]

what does that stand for?

[smoky quest]

Still trying to figure out what these three enigmatic letters could mean.

[true harness]

keep me posted, i am eager to learn as well

[near ocean]

Taxes Are eXpected

[fast fossil]

what is this, another recursive acronym?

[near ocean]

Thats up to you to figure out, but if you get it wrong you go to jail

Actually so glad i dont have to sit down and do my own taxes, one thing the brits got right

[fast fossil]

even if you're self-employed?

[near ocean]

No, as a FTE

If youre self employed you gotta do your own but i dont think its as convoluted as the US

[hidden trellis]

Hello

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, you don't go to jail unless you've really f'd up (ie: fraud or serious provlems). If you screw up, you'd usually just pay back taxes plus a penalty.

[near ocean]

We do a little tax evasion

We had to do the gf's taxes one year (last year) and its a single form, the problem is it takes a month or two to change your tax code to reflect your situation
All in all its a terrible experience and not worth it unless youre bringing home literal buttloads of cash

Its not worth the stress of HMRC getting it wrong but at least they pick up the phone

[tiny pebble]

Hi, I’m a semi-beginner into programming, I’ve built some apps on AHK also some python apps that interact with some APIs and I’ve built a Python app that interacts with my nodeJS server that I written, I want to do some free work for someone just to gain experience, anyone help me how to find someone because I can’t in the server since I can’t post free services on this server?

[smoky quest]

You can find people on freelancing websites like upwork or fivvvvveeer

[tiny pebble]

but there are no free jobs

because I don’t have anything to show to get a paid position

[smoky quest]

so reduce your rate

[tiny pebble]

I’m thinking in a way that if I work with someone I can make like a final product and show someone what I did!

I think that the people will not consider me like good with open source projects, (maybe I’m wrong because I don’t know how it usually goes with programming because I’m a video editor)

[smoky quest]

And try to put yourself in the shoes of your potential customers: why would they pay you the same or trust you than someone who has more experience to prove it?

[tiny pebble]

because some people say go to open source projects

[smoky quest]

how would that work?
As a user, why you contributing to a random open source project help me with my problem?

[tiny pebble]

Explain it to them

[smoky quest]

Then do so when you bid on projects

[manic marten]

Yo so what should I put for a portfolio for python
Like what would they care about

[pine sleet]

they care about any project that demonstrates a variety of skills - teamwork, ability to reason through and solve complex problems, software engineering best practices, etc

[manic marten]

thanks im almost turning 14 so im looking into getting a online job

[tiny pebble]

how to make someone trust your skills, problem solving etc? If I write a bio and say I have experience in that that… doesn’t mean you can do the job

[pine sleet]

you shouldn't worry about getting a job at 14, especially not a programming one

[tiny pebble]

what do you suggest me?

[pine sleet]

are you also 14?

oh i misread the reply

[tiny pebble]

no, 17

[pine sleet]

is this your question?

[tiny pebble]

this is the question but also that question works

[pine sleet]

this is usually demonstrated in the interview

[tiny pebble]

like how to go to the point where you get interviewed, for example me I don’t have any project that showcases my skills… do you know any discord server or any site where I can find someone where I can get hired as intern

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[pine sleet]

you need a good resume to get to the interview stage. you need to have cool projects that catches hiring manager's eye enough to go forward with an interview

^ and a degree too

[tiny pebble]

so it’s hard to find a job (remotely) without a degree,

[pine sleet]

yeah pretty much

its a bit less difficult locally but still difficult

[smoky quest]

It's going to be very very very very difficult to find a remote job without a degree nor experience

[tiny pebble]

Okay so I firstly need to finish degree, I’m just 17

[pine sleet]

yes. you still have a lot of time, so you can for now just focus on exploring and building

[smoky quest]

yeah. In the mean time, build stuff and have fun.
There are a lot of things out there you don't know they exist yet

[tiny pebble]

yeah, also in some fields that I have experience I don’t know that they exist

In the content creating world it’s totally different you can get a job without a degree

[near ocean]

this isnt a content creating server

[tiny pebble]

yeah yeah I know I’m not against it, but just saying

[rough jacinth]

Finally i will again try to learn python for fun 😀

Left it in as lockdown ended 👀 you know less give it a go again

[smoky quest]

Different jobs have different requirements, especially if you go into advanced fields like CS

[manic marten]

I want to know the experience also i want to put something on my resume

I mean its probably not a good idea to get a job but are there any alternatives

[pine sleet]

you will get the experience later in university. for now you can just work on projects

[manic marten]

I am practicing coding to do mechatronics

[pine sleet]

great, keep practicing and building

[deft herald]

Yeah the only thing you can really do for your resume at this point is personal projects. It's totally valid to do that though

[unreal swallow]

hi

[buoyant seal]

Vue.js is quickest and easiest to learn out of most popular frontend frameworks 😉
Optionally transitions into super game: Nuxt.js, for having Server side features in it available (its own answer to Next.js)
Typescript is recommended, otherwise those frontend frameworks are very shitty to use and maintain in long term (not necessary if u write once and never maintain after that though)

[viscid tusk]

not directed towards python but does anyone know where I would look for a remote job ? Any response would be greatly appreciated

[pine sleet]

linkedin

[white relic]

same places you find not remote jobs.
LinkedIn does seem popular

[plush forum]

Um what does it mean when python says invalid syntax

[white relic]

This channel is for career discussion; you can ask simple questions in #python-discussion or more involved ones by creating a help thread ( #❓｜how-to-get-help )

[plush forum]

Ohh ok sry

[viscid tusk]

Okie ty I shall look there

[rapid elbow]

anyone here able to give some advice?

Like im in my Junior year of uni and idk I kinda took a step back from being locked in to realize what Ive been doing for the past 3 years and if its gonna get me a job later on down the line. Im working towards a CS bachelors but after I graduate like im terrified I wont have a job and be still stuck working min wage retail

Like dont get me wrong I dont wanna be crazy rich but i just wanna be able to live

Im willing to put in the work and grind but not to the point where im ripping my hair out over requirements and learning frameworks tech stacks if I even wanna do SWE

[hazy wagon]

@rapid elbow with CS degree you probably have much more chance than someone without one. I study and use python for a year now without any certificates or degrees and so far can't land any job remotely connected to python but what I see is that employers list CS as the first criteria for many type of jobs like DevOps, junior, senior, for dev jobs as well even for some SRE jobs too. So probably if you get the degree and know what your are doing, you will land some job. Make sure to create some projects so show them on your GitHub page. Learn some Linux and version management. This will be a plus

[rancid rune]

Yeah, i also decided to learn Vue.js.
Although, my first choice was svelte, I tried that and it's pretty much easier to use and learn. But it doesn't have much recognition in my country that's why i gotta choose Vue js for that.

[smoky quest]

What's the fear about and what's the alternative?

[sage sierra]

I know more Java then Python lol

Even though i have a longer expierence with Python

[buoyant seal]

Svelte is kind of hype people are happy to use
and it is very recent hype, and in small amount
and at the end of a day if u wish to be pursuing serious frontend(or having it renamed to full stack) dev career, then choice is only between React, Vue.js and Angular
With their ecosystem of solutions on top

[stable shoal]

Hey idk if any of you guys are familiar with kotlin but is there a dependency needed to use @ Preview?

[buoyant seal]

https://discord.gg/wUT37zaT
https://discord.gg/jhVG9Kqv
Asking it over there will be way more appropriate than at python server

[fleet iris]

i need help

[white relic]

If it's career advice, résumé review, etc. you need, feel free to ask here.

if it's technical in nature, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fleet iris]

i have a lot of stuff to learn. i procrastinate a lot and think i will learn that later and now after weeks i keep forgetting what i need to learn. i found my old notepad document for stuff and tech i need to learn. truth is i didn't learn 90 % of it

is it ok to like to put all stuff u don't know in ur learning list.. i mean i have a lot of stuff like testing,networks(i bought a book on it),databases(i just started cs50sql),hosting,and many frameworks

i don't even get time for studying a hour because of this college stuff

so my actual question is.. how do you guys manage time and learn new stuff

my problem i plan a lot to learn all stuff together. but i don't do any action towards it. i think am lazy

[buoyant seal]

i choose one topic i wish to learn, and go to it. it can take week, it can take months. but i keep going through until i finished specific one
Then i move to next one.

I have exact plans of studies i wish to go through, which topic i will be handling next
It can be a Theory stuff, some book.
It can be practice, building some project.
I just go.

Usually weekends / vacations are a good time to jump start smth, i often used them (with sacrificing some of my mental health) to make marathon for going through smth.
if to count weekends, person has more than hundred days off per year. plenty of time.

Also it helped me removing some of my bad habits, making sure those habits are blocked and discouraged.
Then plenty of time became free to use my evenings for this stuff too.

Plenty often i appear to be very slow to myself, but in fact i did a lot through years

[fleet iris]

yes i think i should'nt be making plans for everything. i should focus on one. having so much stuff to learn is distracting me from starting it

[buoyant seal]

i have very robust system of prioritization. i reevaluate very throughly if specific topic is important or not.
Once i chose, this one is indeed most important, i go with it.

that made me throwing some trash away, i thought at first being important, but apperently not

i know for sure that what i learn now is important
most important to increase my value as dev, for career, and for fun

that is actually another important point. Most of the times u need to choose THE FUN way to learn it. (doing Head first book, building pet project for some gaming community and etc)
That makes it very fun to go through. Extra motivation/strength

i never pick the hard way 😅 unless this topic is hard, but it is very valuable to learn to make things for me way easier to dev (some serious reasons chosen during stage of prioritization for me needed to do smth harder than necessary)

[fleet iris]

yes projects are my answer i think. but still i get lost on motivation once i see some skills that i am missing and i jump start learning it only to abandon both. like in my case i have to learn stuff like databases,testing,making api backend and many more stuff. so when i start with a project i think i have to learn these stuff before making a good project. as a result most of my projects are over in a week

[buoyant seal]

Also i know for sure what works for me to learn at this point. I know that videos are useless for me. I know i love books (especially head first) and can learn with documentation and sometimes tutorials.
I tried different ways to build pet projects, and i chose again what works for me best
I try to pick always what works for me the best.

[buoyant seal]

ergh, abstract api backends in a vacuum is one of the most demotivating things for me. i don't do this (at best micro small one during the earliest language learning)

i am backend dev, but i learn some topic through the most fun ways (like unit testing with Kent beck or smth)
and apply it to building Discord bots, or building apps for gaming community

they don't have to be having backend exactly, they could be using smth more web oriented of course, but i design solution without trying to throw into it regular array of backend tech (i had a stage like that in the past, but it never worked fo rme)

i could be even just going for Modding for some game, it could be better way to learn than building abstract backend api

there should be purpose. a good purpose, to build app, then there is motivation to build it. and if some people need it actually, then their feedback encourages to continue

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html some thoughts on choosing projects to buid

I design solutions oriented for web and for linux servers if i could though. Just because i don't wish to deal with Windowses 😏
trying to keep myself cross platform if necessary, but giving always priority to linux first (because that is my favourite platform i use and live in to do backend and devops engineering)

[fleet iris]

yes i can maybe try that like add new stuff i learn directly to my projects. but don't know how good the result would be

[fleet iris]

ok i bm it

[buoyant seal]

once u will learn unit testing, and pick carefully enough right languages/technologies
u will be able to buid projects that can be actually continued through even global changes (instead of rewriting from scratch all the time)

It is good aim to make pet projects easy to maintain, easy to change, easy to continue, with minimal amount of dependencies needed to run it.
you can improve the result later if necessary after that then.

i never avoided to rewrite from zero until i reached satisfactory quality though. one of my projects was built from zero 3 times 😅 until i reached the level, okay this is passable quality i can maintain for years, and easy to improve or fix anything (but i could be lazy to make 100% of quality, the fact only that i can easily fix and improve, as quality is already quite good)

[fleet iris]

oh so i can like maybe i can try that to do the same stuff i did with a normal django template website to do it with a backend and frontend seperate

[buoyant seal]

Programming is iteration.. to reach good result. we are destinated to make mistakes in first projects
but next ones or rewrites from zero will be better 😏

at some point it is reachable quality at last making project from first try good enough to continue without rewriting from zero
But it took me... around 3 years after master's degree graduation to reach this level

even if project is shit in quality, it can serve thousands people well though and live for 10 years or smth (i saw such projects multiple times)

one of most valuable characteristics u can reach... making the project actually needed. then even very questionable quality... can be somewhat less important.

for me quality is super important though, because it directly affects how much joyful it will be to continue and maintain project further. i am not having tollerance of those "geniuses" able to work with shittiest quality for dozen of years 😏

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6rP-YP4c5I try everything
It is important phase trying different technologies, languages, architecture choices to find out what is shit and what works for you
Then u can choose based on the set of stuff u already tried and know what will work better
this phase never ends though, since we need to try new stuff eventually again and again 😄 the surface does decrease though how much some stuff is novel, since we can reuse knolwedge from other stuff

[fleet iris]

yes i should, and also tackle everything one by one than doing all at once.

thanks i feel better motivated now😆

[vapid jay]

@fringe sphinx Happily. I'm from Arkansas, USA. I am currently 21. I was in First Tech Challenge Robotics, and was a Congressional App Challenge winner in 2020 when I was in High School. I graduated high school in May 2021. After high school, I chose to join the Arkansas National Guard, deploying to basic combat training in June 2021. I was released from service at the end of July 2021, and went to college at Arkansas Tech University. I spent a year in the BS in Computer Science Education w/ Teacher Licensure program, but ultimately over-exerted myself. After I moved back to my home town, I picked up a job as a Line Chef, and then moved over to Front Desk at a hotel in January 2021. At that same, I started the BS in IT with a concentration in Cyber Security through a remote program through Strayer University. I am now 96 credits into a 180 credit program with an estimated graduation of Mar 2027. I have educational and hobbyist experience in Python, Java, HTML/CSS/JS, C/C++, and R.

Feel free to ask any questions you have, I am always happy to share about my story.

[fringe sphinx]

What was your MOS?

Oh, you left early, nm

[fringe sphinx]

A few things: work experience beats projects any day. Consider looking for adjacent jobs in the industry, such as QA, help desk, operations, etc. Those will teach relevant skills, and with that background, I'd think you'd have a good chance at an entry adjacent role.

[vapid jay]

Enlisted 25B. IT Specialiast, unfortunately didn't make it past halfway through basic due to mental health issues.

[vapid jay]

I can't find any good openings, and perhaps I just haven't looked correctly, but...

[fringe sphinx]

Hah, that's pretty much what mine was, altho they renumbered them later.

[vapid jay]

Yep. Crazy part was if I had completed, with how long 25B AIT is, I would have 2 really cool things under my belt. 1 is I would have been active duty long enough during my training to be considered a veteran for benefits, and 2. My grandfather was signal and went to both Jackson (where I did Basic) and Gordon (Signal School where I would have done AIT).

[fringe sphinx]

Hah, that's where I went too... jackson basic and gordon ait.

[vapid jay]

But regrets are not something I can focus on since I can't change the past. I enjoyed my time, and I have lessons that I took from it and thats whats important.

[fringe sphinx]

Well, I didn't end up enlisted because of good decisions prior. It's all just a blip in your life story.

[vapid jay]

I enjoyed my time at Jackson, definitely not the experience that anyone described it to be.

[vapid jay]

Yep, one door opens so that another may close, and vice versa. So many people only focus on the idea that a door closes so that another may open, but you never know how many worse outcomes you may avoid by doing anything.

But I am defintly at the stage of wanting to make the career move, but I just don't know how or what to look for.

[fringe sphinx]

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing the right things. My standard advice is:

1. Make sure your resume is as good as it can be: go to jobs with the resume you've got, not the resume you want. You can ask for an anonymized review here.
2. Seek jobs now, don't wait for some perfect moment in the future. An adjacent job will build you resume more than some projects.
3. Network: talk to people, friends of friends, friends of family, etc. Not solely to get a job, but to become more knowledgeable and gain experience second hand
4. Practice: specialization is not something to worry about now... generalize: there's some much you don't know. The only exception is for people with a true passion (which is rare for a beginner).

[vapid jay]

Yep. Pretty much all things I already do, I am a HUGE beleiver in the 3rd one. I have been doing that since I was 16, actively finding ways to be involved with all number of things. One of my most fun claims to fame was the fact that within 6 months in my senior year, I recieved 2 Certificates of Congressional Recognition. The first was for the CAC and the second was for serving on my state senator's Youth Cabinet.

[fringe sphinx]

Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

[vapid jay]

I still remember, I was in NJROTC in high school, and for graduation, I was gifted a pocket constitution. The front and back panel each had a note from my Commander and Senior Chief. My Commanders note said (and I am paraphrasing slightly):
You had three jobs:

• Graduate High School
• Join the army
• Recieve Congressional Recognition

And somehow I had done all 3 in reverse. (Since I technically enlisted before I graduated.)

I don't know how I did it, but its one of those things, I know what I have already accomplished, so I know what I can in the future, and in the harder days, it defintly helps to focus on that lol.

[fringe sphinx]

For sure. Don't worry about other peoples paths, just that your next step takes you forward. That's why I was commenting on your focus on the resume "portfolio": keep learning, and the portfolio happens. Don't turn learning into some unhealthy focus on the "greatest portfolio project"

[vapid jay]

Yah, no, the portfolio focus is moreso just focusing my learning in a different way than tutorial hell of half-finished projects becuase my brain hurts. Lmao.

[fringe sphinx]

regarding job search: search for "QA" and roles similar to it.

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, I think most of us do that. I have dozens of unfinished projects.

[vapid jay]

There's a healthy balance, and for me the unhealthiness is not remembering the last time I actually finished a substainal learning project.

[vapid jay]

In regards to that, what is the "trick" (i didn't like using that word there) to dealing with remote jobs.

[fringe sphinx]

I have no idea. Nowadays, your best bet is to focus on local companies... even if there aren't that many of them.

Start local and exhaust those opportunities

Another way to put it is: everybody wants remote jobs. Aiming for local jobs may be easier for your situation, even if there aren't many in your direct area.

[obsidian acorn]

I also tend to see remote for more senior level positions as opposed to entry level, so, the alternative is to consider relocation, even that may be a pain.

[vapid jay]

I have a request, if you are open to it?

Do a search for such jobs within 10-15 miles of Hot Springs, Ar.

I admit it may be a me not being good at job searching, so I would love a second pair of eyes, if you'd be up for it.

[vapid jay]

Unfortunately, relocation is not a pain, but is just not an option right now, outside of a position hiring with like relocation stipend.

[obsidian acorn]

Do you know anyone who work in some of these companies near you? geting a referralfrom those may be helpful. You can also find them at tech meetups as well.

[vapid jay]

I unfortunately have exhausted my local connections I have, but most have ended in dead ends, unfortunately I just don't live in a tech market, most of the places that need it have guys who have been doing it for them for 40 years, and won't retire for like another 30, and even when they do, the companies are looking for replacements on equal terms to the ones who are leaving. I don't have the opportunity to make it to tech meet ups, which is unfortunate because I know there are great ones held in the region, but my primary source of transportation is bicycle, with no license, so very limited in range.

[fringe sphinx]

I get a thousand or so hits for quality assurance (and you can try other keywords): https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?currentJobId=4003102199&geoId=102790221&keywords=quality assurance&origin=JOB_SEARCH_PAGE_LOCATION_AUTOCOMPLETE

(I don't know Arkansas very well... so not sure distance from hot springs)

[vapid jay]

You can put in location and distance into Linked in job search.

[white relic]

Inability to relocate or commute by car, in Arkansas, is definitely going to severely limit your options. IMO fixing that should probably be in your top 3 priorities, maybe even 2nd after completing your degree (others may disagree).
We can wish that we had better public transit and more walkable cities, but the US is not Europe.

[fringe sphinx]

" the companies are looking for replacements on equal terms to the ones who are leaving.": That's not true at all. Companies know they have to train replacements: you can't just hire replacements without investing in them.

[vapid jay]

Yes, I overall agree, but unfortunately, due to the first two issues, it's very hard to be in a financial position to do so, without making career money.

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps if there were lots of senior engineers looking for jobs... there aren't.

[white relic]

yes, it's going to be hard.

[vapid jay]

Not here. The companies that don't out source IT (the local ones) absolutely recruit replacements of equal caliber, because they don't have high overturn rates, so they can absolutely afford to shop around for replacements well before the time is up.

[fringe sphinx]

Put that idea out of your mind. That's a mental blocker. There's no reason to worry about that concern, because all it does is prevent you from trying.

[vapid jay]

IT is the biggest sector by far in my area, followed by military contractors that are very much only looking for specialists and using more machinests and CAD then tech.

[vapid jay]

This is coming from someone who has talked to the industry individuals in my area and had tried to get entry.

[fringe sphinx]

You apply, and apply, and network, .and apply some more. (agree with trentj on priorities: degree & transport is going to be important)

[fringe sphinx]

I'm just saying, don't stop trying. All you need is one shot.

[vapid jay]

I even have certification in IT and had it lined up for an IT specialist at the local convention center to talk to their boss about bringing me on, and nothing.

[vapid jay]

Absolutely I agree, and I haven't, but the more times I try, the more I think something different has to occur, and more than likely with my approach.

[white relic]

Again, yes it is going to be hard. You are in a hard situation. Nothing we say is going to change that. But it is not an impossible situation. You just need to take the steps that you know you need to take and keep trying. It is not hopeless.

[fringe sphinx]

As far as projects and skills to develop: I think linux/cloud/devops skills are always good foundational skills. It's one thing to know a programming language, but to be familiar with the rest of the stack is important.

[vapid jay]

No, absolutely, I never said it was hopeless, just looking for some kernel I can pry out of y'all to get that change I need lol.

[vapid jay]

Yah, now your talking a rabbit hole that every time I look at it gets more expensive lol.

[fringe sphinx]

How so?

You can start building linux skills today, zero cost.

[vapid jay]

Without running Linux?

[fringe sphinx]

Linux is free.

[vapid jay]

Yes, but a device that could stand running it isn't, my primary device is a 8 Gig Laptop.

And I'm not giving up my Windows.

[white relic]

do you think Linux requires a lot of system resources?

[vapid jay]

I think running 2 OSes does.

Especially when I barely have enough for the one that I use.

I admit I could be wrong, and I will accept that, but that's my take on it at least

[white relic]

I'm seeing a lot of "everything is bad and it's not worth changing anything because anything else would be worse".

[vapid jay]

Also, slow mode grabbed me earlier, but I was going to make an exception for devops.

[vapid jay]

No, it's not a worth changing, it's a how do I go about changing, these are all things I have attempted to do previously, or looked at doing previously.

And I'll accept that there may be a different way than what I've seen, but in my experience the old adage, "Stupidity is doing the same thing, over again and expecting a different result." Simply said, I need a variable to change.

[fringe sphinx]

You can dual boot to Linux, or run WSL. Linux runs on tiny systems (raspberry pi's, for instance).

[white relic]

Bluntly, the variable you need to change is allowing the fear of potential obstacles to stop you from doing things.

[vapid jay]

Mm, I still thought dual booting, the boot loader tends to take way to much space?

[vapid jay]

Am I wrong in my understanding of that?

[vapid jay]

With all due respect, it's not a stop me from doing things, at most it's a stop me from doing things I don't clearly know how to do, but if argue that's most of the time not a bad thing.

[white relic]

You have to be willing to do things you don't know how to do in order to learn how to do them.

[white relic]

what's the hard drive size?

[vapid jay]

Problem is last time I did that, I ended up owing Bezos like 150$.... Which is also why I can't use like half of ACS...

Tbf, "last time" is hyperbole, but it defintly scared me off from jumping off really high ledges.

[white relic]

windows is a hog. you can run linux on a few gb, less if you put in effort.
or you can run it totally live off a flash drive, although I wouldn't recommend it for daily use

[fringe sphinx]

One way to learn Linux is to force yourself to use it as your main OS.

[vapid jay]

114 GB, 89.3 GB of which are used.

[white relic]

you're swimming in drive space.

[vapid jay]

While I understand and appreciate that, I just have too much basis in Windows and too much need for Windows products (and yes, I recognize that as a problem, but that's just the way that is)

[fringe sphinx]

That's the point. Step out of your comfort zone. What possible Windows app must you need that you can't use, say, Google Docs, for?

[vapid jay]

Google docs is completely inferior to all of the Office Suites products, as someone who is familiar with both, same with the Office Online products. Also, college classes sometimes requires formatting only word can create.

Cloud products are actually really really sucky when it comes to formatting...

[white relic]

Ok, you don't have to learn linux. But it is an easy and essentially free way of building skills, and you're still looking at it and seeing only obstacles.
Are you looking for a way to build skills that doesn't have obstacles?

[vapid jay]

Well, no, but I want to have a clear idea of the obstacles and how to clear them before I begin attempting. A gymnast isn't going to attempt a hurdle run without knowing the distances and locations of the hurdles to prepare themselves.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'll find many of us just start jumping hurdles and figure it out along the way.

Even if it leads to some skinned knees.

[vapid jay]

Yes, but it's not something that I can do, call it part of my mental health disorder, whatever you need to, because it's not conscious choice.

[fringe sphinx]

The challenge with programming is: many of the obstacles are discovered not planned. Like exploring a cave.

[rancid rune]

true

[vapid jay]

I have to have a clear picture of what can and may occur, or else, I will shut down in the middle of it instead of rolling with the punches.

I generally adapt well, but only in environments where I have some form of familiarity.

[vapid jay]

Yah, and I don't work well with that unfortunately. Which is part of my struggle, because it's also what I love about the field.

[white relic]

I'm naturally a risk-averse person. It's held me back from several opportunities. I've made my peace with those, but I'm getting better at recognizing opportunities to grow and taking risks even when I'm uncomfortable.
Some of it has come with age. Sometimes I still have to bite the bullet.

[vapid jay]

Alright, let's pivot to one that I want to hear more about. Billy mentioned dev ops, but that feels very general to me? Is that as general as it feels, or is it more specific and I'm just being dumb?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh it's funny, I'm risk blind. Not seeking it, but perhaps I just assume I'll figure it out

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of stuff falls into DevOps, from basic cloud/linux skills to ci/cd automation to instrumentation/etc. it's a broad category of all the stuff the dev needs besides building the features

[vapid jay]

Yah, I can't do that whatsoever, like I literally physically can't lol, I'm getting the heabie jeabies just thinking about it.

[vapid jay]

Ok, kinda what I figured. And yeah, a lot of that costs money to actually run development side... Lol.

[fringe sphinx]

I think one way to mitigate that is to gain some rough familiarity with each of the components: take them from unknown to 'I know a little'

[vapid jay]

Yah, that's the point I am generally at.

But that's the problem, I know a little of a lot, but don't have any good ways to show or use it.

[fringe sphinx]

Totally fine. Few entry candidates do

Just keep learning, and doing projects that teach you something

[vapid jay]

And when I feel like I'm running out of things that are teaching me something?

(Basically tutorial hell that I've already described where there is no upward learning?)

[fringe sphinx]

Then you're just not seeking good project ideas. I could come up with a dozen projects that would teach me something, you certainly could.

[vapid jay]

Like, the cliff of tutorials/project suggestions is literally going from building a ToDo App to building a Web Scraper, and I'm like, that's a big step, especially since like everyone wants to talk about the million and one ways to build a ToDo app, but no one wants to tell me how to use an API effectively to scrape a website.

So I usually go off the deep end on a project like that, and very quickly realize that I don't even know which API to use, or whether to just use a data library.

And by that point, the project generally gets abandoned because I can't figure out where to go and my brain hurts.

[fringe sphinx]

Have you seen https://www.scrapethissite.com/pages/

[vapid jay]

Nope. Bookmarked.

[vapid jay]

Let's continue with this kernel digging. Next field ML, I understand exactly how it works, how developmental vs generative AI etc, but physically coding it, I always get lost somewhere in the process of taking the data, and then figuring out how to have the computer process it.

[fringe sphinx]

See "cs50 for Ai" for a structured course on this topic. Start there

Or Kaggle.com/learn

[vapid jay]

Ok.

[vapid jay]

Hmm, alright, and then process for dual booting and getting started with any level of shift to Linux?

[lilac sundial]

Ive heard i need to be sharp at math as a programmer

So do i need to be at the engineering level of mathematics at some point down the line

[true harness]

the math you need in programming is different than in engineering. it will be things like discrete math, not Fourier series, usually less advanced calc needed

[lilac sundial]

Alr

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not the best person to ask (haven't done it in a few years), maybe ask in one of the off topic channels, there's a lot of examples/guides online

[real quiver]

hi,
i just started my job fresh after graduation and i feel a bit too overwhelmed with PySpark, I never used it before and I cant seem to find much online about how to use PySpark, does anyone have any advice or resources I can benefit from, that would be very helpful

[urban geode]

@real quiver https://spark.apache.org/docs/latest/api/python/getting_started/index.html will this help?

[real quiver]

i did take a look at this but what i’m working with
alongside data bricks
is far more complicated and requires me to extract existing data from a csv file and basically play around with it

i just don’t know how to get started with that

[urban geode]

seems you'd use the DataFrameReader.csv() method to do that

or https://spark.apache.org/docs/latest/api/python/reference/pyspark.sql/api/pyspark.sql.functions.from_csv.html

for the record, I searched on PySpark read from CSV and found these examples

[real quiver]

thank you so much

[rough jacinth]

Tell some interesting code other than print

[fringe sphinx]

This is careers. Maybe you want: #python-discussion

[rough jacinth]

What is the most interesting thing u ever made in python?

[supple junco]

y'all I have an essay due tomorrow, what should I write it about?

[near ocean]

You should write about how you asked an offtopic question in the careers channel when you wanted to ask in #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[quiet igloo]

I’m seeing a trend on LinkedIn of FAANG employees complaining about RTO. Companies are attempting to enforce 5-days in the office, and I think it will backfire.

The silver lining used to be immigrants, but will immigrants even want to be here with the increasing living costs?

[white relic]

people always complain about stuff. RTO isn't the end of the world, neither will FAANG suffer for threatening it. They have more than enough willing candidates

it may be that they're hoping to reduce the workforce without having to say the L word

[white relic]

this channel is for career discussion

[next spruce]

Ok

[quiet igloo]

Agreed. Especially that last part. It’s like how AWS tries laying off workers at the end of their second year, before their benefits increase.

[visual flax]

How should I feel about having a low gpa as an engineering student and missing out on opportunities?

[fringe sphinx]

If you're still in school? Feel bad and fix it. GPA is a function of time management. If you're out of school? Nobody really cares.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

[visual flax]

were you in an engineering discord?

[fringe sphinx]

When?

[visual flax]

idk like engineering students discord?

[fringe sphinx]

Discord wasn't around when I was in Uni.

[visual flax]

I don't really mind but I realize now that I missed on free opportunities given out by my school. I did try my best but I probably would have tried harder had I known Id be given free stuff.

[quiet igloo]

It’s important for internships and fresh grad jobs, which launch the rest of your career.
If you’re past that stage don’t sweat it.

[fringe sphinx]

Have you graduated?

[visual flax]

No, but now I'm starting to feel bad about it with students who have 4.0 and 3.9 gpa

[fringe sphinx]

Your feelings don't matter. Manage your time better.

[visual flax]

WEll I'm ill and I didn't really expect to make it this far tbh.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm speaking as someone who did epically bad at Uni when I started.

[visual flax]

but it looks like I can and so I'm going to try a bit harder. IT ssuper hard to do nothing but school without getting depressed.

so I'm about to finish my second year how high can I go from a 2.83?

[fringe sphinx]

My point isn't about effort or trying hard. It's simply about managing your time. I think we're all capable of getting a solid B in any course, if you put a fair amount of time in: do the work, read the material, and seek out supplementary information (ie: OCW) when the teacher is terrible.

[quiet igloo]

Nice you got plenty of time. And on your resume you can show ‘senior years gpa’

[fringe sphinx]

Who cares. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. Yesterday is past.

Do you know what the 4 year graduation rate is in the US?

[visual flax]

;nope

[fringe sphinx]

U.S. College Graduates & Graduation Rates

"Among students at 4-year institutions, the graduation rate is 52.0%."

Crazy, right?

[visual flax]

rough its been brutal for me

A constant fight for self worth and mental stability, I find days where I hate myself and others where I feel fantastic. I think a good gpa will help with my esteem issues

[fringe sphinx]

I hear you. Uni is brutal, I think many of us got through HS with intellect and intuition, and not good study habits.

[fringe sphinx]

I'll just say: it gets better. Just focus on time management. Don't worry about the ppl who seem to have it easy: they have their own struggles.

[quiet igloo]

It helps if your friends are on the same boat. But if your friends are getting mid gpas and you push above, you might get lonely

[fringe sphinx]

Also: Consider taking a reduced load next semester, and taking some summer courses to balance it.

[visual flax]

I am taking a reduced summer load anyway ty though

[white relic]

I'll just say I haven't noticed a correlation between grades and ability to keep friends. That sounds more like a personal issue

[quiet igloo]

If your friends are slacking you won’t feel left out and want new friends? I’m guessing you didn’t deal with something like this.

like-minded

[near ocean]

feel left out of slacking? thats definitely a personal issue

[quiet igloo]

You're either an alien, or alt account of trentj.

[near ocean]

trentj is my alt actually, you all are

[true harness]

fomo is certainly a thing, it's kind of a copout to say "thats definitely a personal issue"

[smoky quest]

never be the smartest person in the room

[manic marten]

yo

[manic marten]

You can be the smartest person in the room Just surround yourself with even smarter people

[smoky quest]

does not compute

[near ocean]

Never have fomo about anything by not having any friends in the first place 😎

[white relic]

I mean, it's one thing to say, I used to hang out with a bunch of slackers and I realized their attitude was negatively affecting me, so I made efforts to hang out with people who inspired me to be better. It's another thing to say, well I used to hang out with those losers but then I realized they weren't on my intellectual level and so I stopped because I have nothing to learn from them

[manic marten]

Basically what i mean is if you are the smartest person in the room you can find a way to surround yourself with people smarter than you

[manic marten]

Exactly this

[near ocean]

More like

i used to hang out with a bunch of slackers and got jealous of all their slacking so i stopped hanging out to remove the temptation

Why would someone think like this?

[white relic]

And yog would be right, I haven't experienced that in my personal life

But I have had friends who made significantly worse grades than me, and our friendship didn't suffer for it

[near ocean]

I have friends with significantly better grades than me and i also could say our friendship hasnt suffered :^)

[white relic]

Really? When my friends made slightly better grades than me I immediately ditched them and I'm still burning with jealousy to this very day /s

[smoky quest]

Indeed

[visual flax]

how terrible is it that I have a 2.83 gpa

chatgpt says I can raise it to 3.42 if I get straight a's in my last two years but that's not likely.

[true harness]

worse than a 2.84. better than a 2.82. I would be more concerned about the things you aren't learning that you're supposed to know

[visual flax]

curious would a 3.5 look better if it came from a 2.8 than a 4.0?

[quiet igloo]

unless you have to send an official transcript with your application, you can put your Junior/Senior year GPA on your resume

[fringe sphinx]

Nobody asks that level of question. You're overthinking this, a lot.

[visual flax]

oh thats chill

curious though they are offering a free summer book camp for 1 week for the best and brightest of my college should I still apply?

[quiet igloo]

yah this way you aim as high as you can, but don't feel pressured to get a perfect 4 to balance the 2.8

[quiet igloo]

absolutely

[visual flax]

Yea it doesn't hurt it'll be a miracle if I make it though. I hate how numbers often decide our future

[fringe sphinx]

They don't. Not even close. I was asked exactly once about my college GPA by a startup CEO. He wasn't impressed, but hired me anyway.

[visual flax]

they do sometimes

Plenty of companies filter out students who don't have a 3.9 gpa

[fringe sphinx]

Don't believe everything you read.

[visual flax]

obviously not a 3.9 but spacex has a 3.5 gpa req for their students

[fringe sphinx]

The industry is bigger than just a handful of the mega big tech

Especially companies where -everyone- applies to

[visual flax]

you think working at google and spacex is really all its cracked up to be?

[fringe sphinx]

shrug. I've worked at big and small companies, I enjoy the projects or I leave. Simple as that.

[visual flax]

I've heard smaller companies havea better culture is that true?

[fringe sphinx]

Haven't noticed a difference. Loved big companies as much as small.

and you can get a toxic environment anywhere.

[visual flax]

you think I could get into a small company then get hired at spacex or something like that?

[smoky quest]

anything is possible

[fringe sphinx]

There's something like 100,000 companies that employ software engineers.

[open ivy]

It seems that Fiverr is next to worthless.

As an employee, you are facing fierce competition. Good luck getting anyone to care, no matter how much you low-ball yourself.

So with all these desperate workers you can get great deals as an employer? Actually, no, you don't know who you are getting! So it is crappy in both directions.

[fringe sphinx]

I never understood these platforms. You wouldn't use fiverr for something important or complex, since how would you maintain it afterwards? And if it's simple, it's some non technical person for the customer who will have no ability to evaluate the outcome. I just don't see any winning scenarios

[open ivy]

That is a good point

[smoky quest]

kinda nice for small student jobs

[pastel thunder]

If i go for MSCS and leave microsoft offer and remain in Cadence, Should i assume i wont be getting any benefit as far as brand name is concerned?

[pine sleet]

this doesn't seem related to this channel or to the server in general, so you may want to ask in an off topic channel #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[empty anvil]

I think he's outside

[ebon dove]

hey guys can you suggest me some ideas to code

[empty anvil]

make a competitor to world of warcraft

[trim crypt]

!kindling has plenty of ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[tame laurel]

Hi guys

can i ask

How should an individual learn python step by step?

[karmic sorrel]

hi

[trim crypt]

!resources have plenty of materials that shows how to learn it step by step.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[stable shoal]

im really enjoying the Fleet editor

[vapid jay]

i use T_Neo_vim btw

[fringe sphinx]

This is the careers channel.

[wind elbow]

oh sorry

[fringe sphinx]

This is the careers channel.

[tranquil haven]

o

what channel i use

[fringe sphinx]

For what? To discuss python, #python-discussion

For help, #❓｜how-to-get-help

[tranquil haven]

thanks

[molten iron]

Do you need to be good at maths to learn Python?

[fringe sphinx]

No

[molten iron]

Struggling to find a learning path, udemy is taking too long to learn

[fringe sphinx]

1. Hang out in #python-discussion .
2. Pick a simple tutorial that you like. There's many, but everyone likes something different.
3. Code often: you don't get good by reading or watching.

[molten iron]

Any idea where to find a tutorial?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, and when something doesn't make sense... don't just keep going. Ask questions.

[fringe sphinx]

!res is a big list

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

My short list is - Books: Automate the Boring Stuff, A Byte of Python, - Yt: Corey Schaffer, Bro Code, - Courses: CS50p

[hazy wagon]

Isnt it always better to read the documentation and work on some projects? I start to think that documentation is the best source

[fringe sphinx]

There's many types of documentation. And, learning is rarely "linear".

And, anytime someone says "isn't it always", a senior engineer is required to respond with: "it depends"

For me, I read a little, do a little, read a little more, do a little more, etc.

[faint depot]

I'm thinking of making a simple weather based project that uses the openmeteo api; you input a city of your choice and a data range, the program extracts the relevant data and stores it into an sqlite database. Then, several graphs are made based on certain metrics. Wondering, is this a decent project to showcase my current skillset for an apprenticeship application (L4/degree apprenticeship)? I understand its a simple project but I just want to show I have a decent amount of programming knowledge as well as showing I'm willing to learn

[smoky quest]

Let's take a step back. We know that:
A. The description of the app you have in mind
B. That people will judge you based on 👏 the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏
C. You are applying to apprenticeship

So we do have have that relationship:
A. Your app ----> B. 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 -----> C. apprenticeship application

Are you comfortable with B.?

[near ocean]

Im not sure side projects are good value for time here, most apprenticeships you'll see ask explicitly about academics, do you have them?

[faint depot]

Ngl, no. I'll give it a go and see how I feel about it. From my POV, it feels like a simple project to do, so Ill try to execute it the best way I can (like making a good fish and chips)

[smoky quest]

Have you identify what is in B.?

[faint depot]

My GCSEs I got 10 A*-A, A levels got BDD. I just want to show that I have the capability to learn and apply my skills well due to my shit grades

[near ocean]

Im not sure how they score these things anymore but that seems to be well within a level 6 apprenticeship requirements like this one from hsbc
https://services.ucas.com/careerfinder/vacancy/100249/technology-degree-apprenticeship-cyber

You should probably contact a UCAS person for more information, side projects could be worth it now to distinguish you from the rest of the applicants

[faint depot]

Well I havent even built the project yet. The skills I want to show with the project is that I can use databases, able to use libraries such as numpy and pandas for data analysis and a bit of skill in using apis. Dont know if any of that makes sense but thats what i want to show so far

[smoky quest]

So let's make that list. You want to demonstrate that:

• I can use a database
• I can use libraries such as numpy and pandas for data analysis
• I can use some apis

ngl, that won't make you stand out

[faint depot]

At my uni, I have a meeting with careers advisor tomorrow morning. I'm aware my uni is a training provider for apprenticeship with a big company so, I might try to ask if there's a possibility I could transfer or, have some backing from the uni to say I'm eligible to be considered for the apprenticeship

[vapid jay]

What makes you stand out then?

[smoky quest]

Imagine you and all your class apply to the same job/apprenticeship.
Do you think you would be the only one that can use a database and numpy?

And that's also assuming these are skills the companies you apply to care about

[faint depot]

I'm fully aware it won't. It's not meant to be an outstanding project. Plus, the apprenticeship I'll be doing they will be training me to do what they want me to do. Its more that I want to show I'm capable of learning and that I've got some idea of the computing space

[smoky quest]

So they receive thousands of applications. Why would they choose you over others who may demonstrate more advanced skills, which itself proves they can also learn quite fast

[faint depot]

Idk man. I want to try at least to get in. I know therell be better people than me in those applications and I dont give a fuck. The last time I didnt try, is the reason why Im speaking to you right now. I'll fucking put a case in why they should accept me into their apprenticeship programs over all the smarter bastards. My tenacity will get me through and if it doesnt, then fuck those companies. I'll make my own in life without them

[smoky quest]

I hear your frustration, but the solution here, which I am pushing you towards, is to 👏 demonstrate 👏 more 👏 advanced 👏 skills 👏 .
I am saying it with the most caring intentions, but I fail to see tenacity if you just stop at demonstrating basic skills. Tenacity would be going further, which would put you ahead of your competition and increase your likelihood of success

The good news is that if you get stuck along the way of working on these more advanced skills, you can always ask questions on this discord and get help

[faint depot]

That's the issue I've been facing for the past few months is I do not know how to demonstrate advanced skills. I dont even know what are the advanced skills I need to showcase. A year I've been programming and I've barely progressed. Even worse, I'm in uni but because I'm doing a foundation year, I wont get into the coding modules until next year. I'm fucking applying to the apprenticeships anyway. I know there's a high chance I won't get accepted but, I've got to at least try, for one more time, as I need to see for myself if I can be accpeted into one

[near ocean]

tl;dr do harder things
Also consider resources like https://austinhenley.com/blog/morechallengingprojects.html
https://jamesg.blog/2024/02/28/programming-projects/
And many more

[smoky quest]

there are plenty of books on various topics you could be guided towards to as well.

[smoky quest]

Either way, we all have to start somewhere. So do what you can do and then build up from there. One step at a time

[sacred sand]

This is probably asked alot but i keep worrying about this; is the role of SE diminishing/decreasing at a rate in which they won't be in demand within the next 5 years? Is AI going to render the market really low?

[near ocean]

Not really no

[smoky iris]

I’m a Software Engineer at Uni who is graduating in 1-2 months. I originally was going to go directly into the workforce, however due to my research have decided to continue at school and receive my masters. From what I’ve seen in the market, through professional papers, lectures, and my own private research is that Software Engineering isn’t going anywhere. The role of Software Engineers has changed. You cannot just program or have management skills. At this point you need a more focused understanding of the development process and how to increase software efficiency. A large percentage of the workforce (comparatively) can now program, therefore your understanding of software architecture, development processes, and continual development is more important than your development skills.

[fringe sphinx]

" your understanding of ... processes, and continual development is more important than your development skills": This has been true for... well... ever

tbh, what you just said is consistent with standard advice here: software engineering is more than coding.

[muted bridge]

What do they typically say about pandas vs. what is a good response?

[quartz fiber]

How to become a software engineer

👋

[smoky quest]

Hi!
People go to college/university to obtain a degree such as a bsc or masters degree. Then they apply for jobs

[vapid jay]

Learn on your own, plenty of resources online und having a degree is also useful when applying for jobs

[agile jackal]

Yooooo

[summer plover]

I wanna make an airplane work in Python, a real one

It's for RyanAir

[molten iron]

Has anyone done the cs50p?

[vapid jay]

what are the most stable and decent paying jobs? cloud engineer? database management? i need to start work immediately after graduating and i'm at a loss

[plush summit]

Stuff around data

[white relic]

When do you graduate and with what degree?

[molten iron]

Contracting is good but hard to find a good job

[vapid jay]

Bachelor of (computing) science / information technology
In 3 or 5 years

[molten iron]

Good degree, work towards a high grade

I’d recommend placement and gap year

I did BSc in Computing, struggled to get a decent job due to getting lower 2nd class, first job was a trainee computer operator

Lasted 3 years

[white relic]

Is that one degree or two options?
IT and CS are pretty different career tracks

[vapid jay]

Two options
Bachelor of science with honors in computing science
Or bachelor of information technology

[fringe sphinx]

What's your degree, and country?

Oh, I'm late, nm, Trentj already asked 🙂

There's no simple answer to questions like 'what's the best job'. Theres many jobs, companies need all of them, and the best way to prepare as a new student is to build a broad foundation: learn a little about a lot. Do simple projects in different fields (a game, web app, cloud deployment, database, something ai/ml, etc). No matter what your eventual job, broad knowledge will help you.

** my simple answer is: the best job is the job you get offered.

[lilac sundial]

Are certifications for tools like uipath, servicenow, aws and so on helpful to put on yohr resume

Or are they not worth anything in the scope of software engineering

[summer plover]

CS in 4/5 years

I minor maths 😭

[frosty lichen]

can anyone suggest the best universities for doing a master's in data science, and is a bachelor's degree enough to get a job.

[peak halo]

you should probably do a computer science degree, and do data science/AI-related coursework. There are fewer and seemingly less rigorous standards for degrees in data science, whereas computer science has a universally high standard.

any computer science degree from an accredited university should do. it's challenging to get a job in the space with only a bachelor's, but it's possible if you max out your opportunities to learn about DS/AI as an undergraduate.

[shell tiger]

Hello everyone

[dusk gull]

what is best way to break into real world data science chores whilebeing acs undergrad probably whiebeing in yur second or first year

any suggestions

[fringe sphinx]

What does break into mean? Start gaining relevant skills, or get a job?

[dusk gull]

atleast be able to do some chores in this space while studying

[fringe sphinx]

Have you checked out Kaggle yet? Kaggle.com/learn has some good tutorials too

[dusk gull]

ye ik

[fringe sphinx]

Another thing you could do is get deep into a data science library, something you use, and look for opportunities to contribute (ie: reproducing reported bugs)

[dusk gull]

friends and me just want to do real paid work but the thing is we are not sure what things if we offer will allow us to do work while studying in this space because why work in something else when u are into this thing after grad

so this is an opportunity toimprove and earn but i am not expecting on first day but just asking here

[fringe sphinx]

Paid part time engineering work is very hard to find. Best bet is to look locally or on campus

[dusk gull]

if its possible if not whats possible to find

provided u are a cs undergrad

[fringe sphinx]

It's tough as a student. Look on campus or for local companies, seek out adjacent jobs ... not just 'perfect'

Testing, support, operations, etc anything that's closer to your goal.

[dusk gull]

so DS is my goal maybe analyst

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, even data entry is a possible step in the right direction.

(I had a summer job once doing data entry)

[dusk gull]

hmm but where to find such work

and not just hope sitting that u may find it .btw tysm for your time helping me

[fringe sphinx]

Start local. Your campus probably has a career advisor department

[dusk gull]

no we dont

[outer rivet]

Does this career fair look sketch or legit? https://www.eventbrite.com/e/new-york-tech-career-fair-exclusive-tech-hiring-event-tickets-146584912419

[fringe sphinx]

Doesn't seem particularly legit, no: https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/13xn3eh/anyone_usedheard_of_careerscrossroad_before/ too

[faint depot]

Spoke with my uni careers advisor today. They said theyll contact the unis apprenticeship team for more specific info about applying to degree apprenticeships. She did say that my foundation can be useful to apply as itll show employers that I have the prerequisite knowledge needed. Also, she said its a possibility even midway through my degree to get transferred to a deg app scheme (provided the employer wants me in their company)

Also, I'm scaling back how I'm advancing my programming skills. For now, I'll do a fuck ton of experimentation with the libraries I've been using (e.g. matplotlib, seaborn) and databases as well as getting back to learning what I originally set out to which is ML/AI but this time Im reading through one 'beginner friendly' book (hands on machine learning i think its called). Is it a good plan or nah?

[fringe sphinx]

That's great news.

[fringe sphinx]

Anything where you're learning something new is a good plan. You don't need to become expert at one thing to progress.

[faint depot]

Ive just been getting bored again so I decided go back to what my original goal is. If get through the entire book, that means I enjoyed the content and I definitely want to pursue a career something related to the ML space. If I dont like, Ill find something else. I want to get into microcontrollers but the issue is the cost (Ill ask in the microcontroller channel for more info).

[outer rivet]

Thanks for the link

[fringe sphinx]

When bored, my strategy is to pick a topic that I know nothing about. Doesn't matter what.

[faint depot]

Tbf, I still know fuck all about what machine learning really involves so I guess that helps with the boredom. Just dont want to be stuck in tutorial hell. At least with the few basic projects I've made, I have a somewhat better understanding of python

[fringe sphinx]

That's a huge win. Becoming a good programmer is a necessary first step.

[faint depot]

I'm far from good. Youve seen my projects and theyre pretty much as basic as you can get. It does feel like after a year of coding, I've not really advanced. I'd consider myself at the higher end of beginner but not good enough to be intermediate if that makes sense

[neat shadow]

Got a link where I can look at them?

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, makes sense. One tip: check out the Python tutorial now and pick one topic you know nothing about. Then use it in your next projects

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html

[neat shadow]

There's also https://github.com/codecrafters-io/build-your-own-x

[faint depot]

GitHub link: https://github.com/YourLocalPurveyorOfExplsoveGoods/MyDatabaseProjects

[neat shadow]

try more multi-faceted stuff, the link I posted has a lot of ideas

[faint depot]

Thank you for the link. I think that'll probably help me gain a better idea on what certain projects are like

[neat shadow]

https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code
https://puzzles.bostonpython.com/
or just leetcode

[fringe sphinx]

Codewars and exercism are popular practice sites

My friend, if you need 10% from chatgpt, you need to stop using gpt. Period. Ask us for a hint, or for an explanation, but do not use gpt for learning: it's like going to the gym and having someone else lift the weights

[bold oracle]

Hey all, I'm trying to figure out when to step out and do some freelancing, or something along those lines. I dont think i'm ready just yet. But, when do you know that you are ready to start getting paid for your projects or work in general?

[smoky quest]

In general: a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

In terms of freelancing, it's whenever you feel comfortable applying to requests and can fulfill them

[wanton briar]

Hello

[bold oracle]

So i have been doing self learning and working through codecademy. Looking at the job postings overwhelms me, honestly. I'm thinking i'll start with some small projects freelancing, and contributing to some larger projects. Does that make sense?

[fringe sphinx]

<software> Freelancing isn't a huge industry, despite what some people say online.

[smoky quest]

I mean, it takes 4-5 years of full time studies in a college environment in the "normal" path. So yeah, there is a lot to be overwhelmed by.

If you are still beginning, forget about making money, focus on learning

[bold oracle]

Makes sense.

[smoky quest]

There are tons of learning in the struggle. Only use hints if you have been stuck on something for at least one full day spent on it

[fringe sphinx]

I'm curious what type of mistake, but: like ^ says, the struggle is part of the process. Learning how to debug, learning adjacent concepts, building up your pain tolerance is all part of the process

[old bridge]

I've found GPT to be an effective source of information if you query it carefully and verify what you find. Taught me system design and was a lot more thorough with me than any courses I've taken, even with the back of the envelope calculations

It's way easier to learn when you can frame these deeply abstract ideas in different ways generated by an LLM

You can't really outsource your learning though. The goal should be a solid complete understanding

[fast fossil]

Ehhh, slight disagree with the last bit, you should be able to, at the very least, actually apply your knowledge. Understanding is a bit of a lower order of thinking.
(when viewed from the perspective of Bloom's revised taxonomy that is)

[fringe sphinx]

Huh, I had a longer answer but Matiiss just nailed it.

A shorter version then: for things like learning to program, it's terrible because you don't develop the necessary applied skills. For conceptual stuff, sure.

I'm imagining OP had a bug and instead of figuring it out on their own, they asked GPT where the bug was.

[old bridge]

Of course. If your goal is to understand how to put together a system, for instance, you'll want to have enough understanding about the various parts of the system.

Let's say everyone learns the same way I do. You'll find it much easier to put that system together if you understand its various components, the reasoning behind your decisions vs other ones, and current industry practices to compare, depending on what scale we're talking about here

Really depends on how you make connections, I've had people describe some bizarre learning processes though I'm sure a lot of that is just hyperbole

[fringe sphinx]

Totally get it, but this is related to why college grads fail Fizz Buzz: they 'understood' but can't apply.

[old bridge]

Oh you mean in terms of understanding localized application vs underlying theory & framework

[fringe sphinx]

I mean; in terms of being able to write and debug code.

Its a skill that requires practice, not simply understanding the concepts

[old bridge]

I see. I wouldn't expect any engineer to learn from an LLM without actually applying what they learn.

Got me through a lot of learning during my self taught journey, and it really is a feedback loop. You're conversing with this model, so you're picking up on patterns the more you discuss these topics. Everyone's brain is different though, so I can see how it's not useful for some people

There's areas you can control, such as having a set framework to put into practice. Without that, then yeah, I can see how it's a fruitless effort

Generally speaking, you'll find it's explanations pretty spot on for fundamentals. Just don't ask it to explain all of LangChain's methods lol

Also it's good to note it will miss a lot of information. Your approach has to be multi-faceted. Integral, nonetheless

[fringe sphinx]

That was the conversation tho; it wasn't 'gpt bad for learning' it was 'gpt as a crutch when learning how to write code' bad.

[old bridge]

Ah yeah that may not apply to me then. I learned long before they established GPT in all of it's SAAS glory so I already had some stuff in my head and a direction I would want to take a conversation

But was still able to learn totally new concepts that were foreign to me. Especially with time involved, saves a lot of it. Better than sifting through documents and QAs online for much longer than it would take for GPT to aggregate all of that information and give you the playbook

You really need a good framework that works for you. The good thing is I believe GPT-4o is available even for free users, but not sure if it's just too bottlenecked for learning.
I pay for it so never really have those context issues lol

[fringe sphinx]

You're talking about something totally different, though. Not sure anyone disagrees here. The debate is usually about GPT for beginner coding, and generally, for code generation

[old bridge]

Copy that. Usually whenever someone brings up LLMs in relation to engineering they mention the hallucination argument which I agree with to an extent, but have successfully learned and implemented systems based on things I learned conversing with it.

Are people still trying to get this thing to code for them?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, and for that, its value is questionable (I don't mind seeing what it comes back with sometimes, like I would stackoverflow or google)

[old bridge]

True, but there's no greater answer to a question like that than implementation in practice

Given what you're saying, and what I'm saying, seems like it works differently for different people

Some can use it to learn totally foreign concepts and implement them in practice with a solid framework for understanding, but only one individual can really say whether or not that's going to be true for them

Actually what would be interesting would be looking into some case studies around this topic

[old bridge]

Probably important to mention that learning is really a marathon. You can't expect to be able to implement a system by just learning each component, but by becoming aware of all of the components you might need to incorporate, you're able to segregate what you do know against what you don't

Once that's in place, you would do a deep dive on those concepts individually, and then understand how they work together. Once you understand components and architecture, you can go into implementation

Additionally, it's been very helpful for uncovering things you may not even be aware that you're ignorant about. Like asking about compliance requirements during a system design interview, and the many different ways you could go about doing that, and when and why it may be relevant to do so. Helped me huge with these "hidden nuggets" 🫡

[late rover]

To me chat gpt is to coding what the calculator did to math. It is a tool and nothing more. Still need to learn the math. Still need to learn the code

[old bridge]

Indeed

[peak halo]

Not even this. Calculators are guaranteed to be correct--a calculator that is incorrect 1% of the time is completely useless.

[fringe sphinx]

I just don't think you can get good at coding (or math) without significant time problem solving... working through the hard stuff and building the stamina and skills to persevere.

[late rover]

I didn't say the calculator is the same lol but I get the point you are trying to make. It may be incorrect sometimes now but what's to say it can't eventually get to that point anyways? I personally don't use ChatGPT I use a different model from open ai that is made for python coding but it still a great tool that can be used similarly to calculator. Calculator helps you do math faster. AI helps you code faster.

[fringe sphinx]

(And the beginners who use tools to shortcut their assignments will be miles behind their peers)

[late rover]

Some people learn better the hard way. Some people pick up concepts very easily. Example never did any assignments in my math classes even in the beginning of college. But I always passed because tests were worth more of my grade and the teachers always did a review before the test. I'd just learn everything in the review and get a A on the test

[fringe sphinx]

It's not about concepts. It's about building the skills. I know lots of things, but I still need to grind out hours of debugging and research.

[late rover]

So you are just saying you need experience. Not necessarily knowledge

[gilded skiff]

(premise I'm not an expert in Python not even remotely)
I personally do not use chatGPT or copilot etc
Most of my issues most of the time are actually with code design / custom data structure in python

There are certainly some task that ai can bootstrap for you, but idk if really saves you time bc personally if I need to wait for the response, double check it and modify it to my

There is also a risk of relying too much on him, and losing skill/knowledge bc you're not keeping up with the same mental training you had

[late rover]

Even tho you will undoubtedly learn a lot from your experiences

[fringe sphinx]

I guess. A beginner using gpt to help learn and troubleshoot is skipping a necessary experience.

[late rover]

I agree. I think they will miss a lot of they don't discipline themselves on what they use it for. Still might reach their goal regardless though. If you could have a tutor to help you learn the concepts and basics for free or nearly free doesn't take away anything.

[old bridge]

Yes, but this can be said about anything. It really comes down to the user

[late rover]

Yup. we all don't have the same OS in our brains

[old bridge]

Some people just don't trust it due to hallucinations so you still have to verify what you learn. But for general information and fundamentals it's pretty spot on

You're going to find this exact explanation on google lol except you're going to have to read a bunch of useless human jibber jabber before you get to it

GPT still does that useless human jibber jabber stuff too but at least you can yell at it to get serious

[late rover]

I can imagine if I had to learn code before AI was a thing then it would've been a ton of work and I'd be salty everyone has a tool like that to learn. I learned a bit before but mainly used it as my tutor. Having it also help me learn Vietnamese

[old bridge]

Have you found it effective in real world implementation of programming concepts?

[late rover]

I wouldn't use gpt. Id pay for the premium to have access to smarter models in what your looking to learn

[old bridge]

They probably have some trained GPT/Llama models out there that's fine tuned to teach certain disciplines like programming or law

Fed through a software as a service app

[summer plover]

So you should get a degree

[summer plover]

Don't worry soon ChatGPT won't be able to help you anymore

[peak halo]

Why not

[summer plover]

because I believe he will progress faster than ChatGPT 😈

Brain >>> AI

[peak halo]

Even experienced developers can benefit from using tools like ChatGPT.
In fact, I'd argue that only experienced developers can effectively use tools like ChatGPT.

[summer plover]

You're right but I was just joking about the fact that the AI models we get make many mistakes when it comes to advanced stuff.

What you said is very accurate though.

[viscid ferry]

the other day deep ai gave me a string of if statements when there was a way better way to solve the problem lol

[old bridge]

True without experience you won't know what to ask

And when what you get back isn't enough

[old bridge]

It doesn't code very well

[limber musk]

is it too late to start pursuing data science course?

i am 25 years old

[smoky quest]

nope. It's not too late

[summer plover]

I see people who look 30+ yo in my comp sci classes

[prisma rampart]

If anyone need a developer, please DM me.

[summer plover]

No one's dm'ing u

[potent kiln]

hello

guyz i am a new developer.

[vapid jay]

Hello a new developer, my names gage 🙂

[near ocean]

I had literal grandpas in my cs classes

[frosty lichen]

Thanks for the suggestion I really appreciate it!

[frosty lichen]

Hi bro me too!

[frosty lichen]

hello Gage

[vapid jay]

Hell9

I am worry about my carrer

[viscid ferry]

Do you know any that do (as in there not laughable bad) 👀

[vapid jay]

I was learning python and nlp.but i am 15 years old so i have to focus on school study as welll and idk i am addicted to writing code so how can i do both perfectly i have only 3 month left for my school final exam

[white relic]

You have many years of your life to perfect your art of programming. You only get one chance at good grades in high school.

[white relic]

Coding for fun isn't likely to find you a job before university nor will it improve your ability to go to a good one (as much as having good grades will).

Coding is fun, but your priority should be your schoolwork.

[true harness]

"Necessary Items: Laptop"
"There is no needed tech"

[stuck coyote]

Laptop and Phone

technology

[tender thicket]

!warn 1293597587416551429 we're not a recruiting server

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @stuck coyote.

[potent kiln]

What's up gage

[leaden jasper]

Hello

I think VS & VS code are best CEO?

I mean IDE

[peak halo]

it's all a matter of taste. PyCharm is more features, which people have different opinions about.

[harsh river]

VS isnt a good IDE for python, VSC is more fitting

[peak halo]

you mean more general?
haven't we had this autocorrect fail before?

[leaden jasper]

PyCharm is good too

[harsh river]

visual studio and visual studio code are very different things

[peak halo]

I'm not talking about VS. you said that VSC is more fitting.

[leaden jasper]

My new nick name is good

[harsh river]

yet, for python anyways, seeing that this is a python server

[late rover]

It's codes terribly with wrong inputs. If you know how to guide it to do the work then it's amazing

[near ocean]

If you know how to guide it then you know how to build the stuff it outputs already

[spring whale]

I love pycharms high contrast theme.

[white relic]

high contrast
low focus

[vapid jay]

lmao

[bleak seal]

i have no

idea of python i wanna study any good tutorials

[analog sun]

!resources - you can check out some things that we have collected, I like the real python tutorials

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fleet iris]

Corey on yt

[torpid birch]

Looking for some opinions on what to do currently.
I have been working for 4 years for a ISP provider, 2 years working as a helpdesk for enterprise solutions, now i am working on the same company but doing automation stuff, still related to IT.
My knowledge is not extensive, but since i was the only one that knew python i managed to pitch a bigger project using django and it was accepted.

Thing is, i like programming and networking, but i see a lot of struggling nowadays for juniors to get a position in development while IT is easier to get into.
I still consider myself a junior because there is a lot of basic stuff i skipped while self learning.

Knowing this, i am looking for tips and opinions on what should i focus my attention, Certifications like CCNA or compTIA (Tho were i live they value more CCNA) or focus on development, take my time and make projects and then apply for more jobs.

[white relic]

Since (as I recall) you're looking for a primarily development/engineering role, doing more projects (either at work or personal) and emphasizing that aspect of your current role in your resume is a better use of your energy than chasing certifications.

[fast fossil]

I suppose between the two VSC is indeed more fit for Python dev?

[torpid birch]

Yeah i was looking for that but it's been ruthless, not even for junior roles... The requirements for every spot is "bachelor" minimum, that plus not github meaningful projects is killing my chances. for Networking is way more straightforward, you get a cert you get a job, the higher the cert the higher the pay

[fringe sphinx]

Besides the obvious answer (start working on a degree, because in 4+ years, it'll help unlock the next level), DevOps-type work might be a good transition point given you helpdesk/network/automation experience.

[remote oyster]

Hey, I've been a bit stuck lately. Thinking about my chances after having done a master's degree. I worked with OpenAI during my internship, but ever since then, I don't know if Python is the right fit for me - if it will pay me the right remuneration. What are your thoughts?

[fringe sphinx]

Pythons just a tool. A very popular tool, but a SWE is more than a coder. https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

Chasing a language because of $$$s is pointless: many types of SWEs in many languages in many specialties all get paid well.

But: totally valid to branch out to find what interests you.

[old bridge]

Yup and you should be okay with making a "wrong" decision since you can only work with what you can work with I started off getting paid not near what interns even make and I was designing architecture

As your career progresses decisions tend to get easier depending on the market

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[twilit drift]

i genuinely dk what to do, i do a level computer science and just started - I did not do programming ever before this, or any form of computer science. Im really dedicated and willing to put LOTS of work in, but really struggling with python. can anyone help me out? like methods of learning, youtubers, websites, etc as i really want to do well, but im struggling so hard on the basics and cannot see myself coding a game for my NEA in a years time

[smoky quest]

You can ask python related questions in #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help. People will gladly help you understand these concepts

[old bridge]

Got a tech interview today. Wish me luck

[sullen sage]

gd luck

[twin brook]

https://tenor.com/view/from-the-screen-to-the-ring-the-the-pen-to-the-king-ksi-gif-12257927774644906851

[whole flare]

This is not the channel for shit posting.

[vapid violet]

Will companies generally force employees to all use the same IDEs?
And if they dont will they pay for the pro license for the one of your choice?

[harsh river]

yes to the first
maybe to the second (but most likely not if point one applies)

[vapid violet]

Is Jetbrains the most common in the case that it is forced or does it vary company to company?

[harsh river]

it varies to company, at mine we're not forced to, but highly encouraged to use pycharm and are provided a license for it, we use other tools whose functionality are present in the jetbrains suite though, so we aren't "exclusive" to jetbrains

[vital wyvern]

No imposition on IDE in my workcenter. Most of us use entirely different tooling. So long as it passes tests when you PR, nobody really cares.

[vapid violet]

Ok, thanks!

[vital wyvern]

Caveat, I guess; getting linters/formatters set up is kind of a butt pain with multiple different IDE's. Unfortunately this freedom has come with some.... conflicts when it comes to dev packages/tooling.

VSCode allows you to commit .vscode files which has always struck me as uniquely handy for making dev environments easier to reproduce.

[fleet reef]

Jetbrains IDEs share part of config in the .idea folder
https://editorconfig.org/ is also somewhat popular

[old bridge]

They ___ the interview

I wasn't prepared enough anyway though

[odd stump]

they what the interview?

[fringe sphinx]

Tip: you'll never feel or be prepared enough. Good interviewers test you with questions you don't know the answer to, to see how you handle real world. Practice properly handling those questions: handling questions you can't directly answer

[old bridge]

How will they know what I don't know the answer to

They'll have to ask me about Union Finds lol

Or topological sort

Or why I'd choose mongodb over dynamodb

Oh uhhh because dynamodb is easier to use.

[fringe sphinx]

The set of things you don't know is, well, infinite. It's not hard to ask a moderate difficulty question that you don't directly know the answer to. If you do know the answer? Ask a different or harder one.

For instance, design me a Twitter clone.

Or, any leetcode medium.

Or, how would you move Mount Fuji?

[old bridge]

See when it comes to that, it's easy to design for basic scale

But the real answer is in how you'd handle that clone given 100M users with a peak of 10M Daily Active Users

[fringe sphinx]

You've proven yourself not a senior 🙂

[old bridge]

The title Senior has been inflated beyond repair

[fringe sphinx]

The correct answer to these questions is a (and many) question.

Why? When? How? What? Etc.

[old bridge]

Yeah true. Comes down to knowing what to ask and how to defend your design choices

[fringe sphinx]

Then, stating your assumptions, decomposing the problem, and laying out a plan... and only then getting into solutions

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this is how you can ace an interview question without knowing the answer.

(Although, this won't work on easy questions ofc, where they truly expect you to known

[old bridge]

That is also true. Knowledge is out there, just takes a bit of time to dig deep and find it + train your brain to use it

Good thing my follow up interviews are next week so I've got time

[tepid marsh]

does any1 have any like 2d pixel game code made with pygame?

[open ivy]

I am planning on using game dev communities to network, including this one's game dev thread.

But the goal is to get a non game dev job. Gamedev is a fun hobby and different enough from any job I will have that it does not feel like work.

The idea is to use it as a forum for project sharing. Games and tech demos are very nice mediums to showcase ideas. Also, games are super cutting edge in many different directions (performance, algorithms, UI, etc) and are nice forums of creativity as a bonus.

Any thoughts on my idea?

[lilac sundial]

Is learning ML algs helpful for sw development or is it a waste of time

[peak halo]

what do you mean by "for software development"?

as in, "to make myself more qualified to be a software developer"?

[lilac sundial]

Yes

[peak halo]

I don't think it's ever a waste of time to learn about things that interest you, but it takes a long time to learn enough about ML for that to be useful for employment purposes. Unless you want to specialize in ML, leave it to the specialists.

[lilac sundial]

Alr then

Ive been building some basic projects like calenders and calcs, what step should i take next in my swe journey

[peak halo]

what are you doing overall to prepare for a swe career? anything education-wise?

[lilac sundial]

Im doing my bachelors rn and im going to my masters in a yrs time both in CS

[lilac sundial]

You got any further advice for me friend?

[vital wyvern]

No offense, but it very much feels like you should know the general answers to this at this point in your education.
I'm unsure which country you're from or if you're translating those degree's incorrectly, but I would expect a Junior/Senior to have some level of idea of what skills and competencies they're going to need as a professional.

You should try to build legitimately useful applications at this point. Calendars and calculators are beginner level projects.

[open ivy]

I do subscribe to the basic principle that people should be always doing some form of work in thier field, even between jobs. It does not have to be an excessive workload, but there should be a passion for whatever field one is in.

So one's own unique novel side projects in moderation, combined with more standardized learning, is not a bad idea.

[lilac sundial]

Alr then but with regards to what ive mentioned about education what is wrong here

[vital wyvern]

I'm not sure I follow your question. The individuals that I know pursuing CS degrees at your level are obtaining internships and building at-scale applications in their free time or contributing to open source projects to help develop their personal skills and their personal brand.

[lilac sundial]

Wdym by at scale applications

[vital wyvern]

As in, they're not small, single endpoint applications. They're large applications that interact with multiple systems and are designed to be resilient and broadly deployable.

[lilac sundial]

Ok

[proud quiver]

Can I make a discord bot using python

[vital wyvern]

#python-discussion

[lilac sundial]

Well alright then wheres a good place to find ideas for these sorts of projects that pertain to the swe field

[vital wyvern]

Find an open source project that intersects with your personal interests and begin contributing; or find a problem and apply yourself to solving it-- whether as a real exercise in fixing some issue, or a theoretical exercise. (As in, the problem could already be solved, but you might challenge yourself to figure out how to do it better or to reimplement it or even just reconstruct it.)

[vapid jay]

like my ifs?

[vital wyvern]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[vapid jay]

its python

[vital wyvern]

That is not the direct topic of discussion for this channel.

[vapid jay]

fair ty

[pastel thunder]

Will I get advantage in joining Microsoft full time (in sde role) if I have a fellowship (full time, year long research) from microsoft

[vital wyvern]

Sounds like a good question for a recruiter or for your supervisor. I would presume that having some tenure at the organization would make you more hireable-- you're a known commodity.

[pastel thunder]

i dont have a fellowship yet, got to decide between leaving full time job and taking fellowship

[vital wyvern]

I hedge my bets in these scenarios. If I were in your position, in my current company, I'd explain to my supervisor what I want to do and see if he could work with me to both help me achieve this goal, but also make sure I'm not leaving on bad terms-- I have no doubts that if I went off on a year long sidequest and reapplied to my org, I'd probably be hired back pretty quick.

That's obviously not foolproof, but it's the best way to pursue that goal (if that's what you want to do) while still trying to give yourself some grace in the event it doesn't work out.

[tepid marsh]

hmm

[pastel thunder]

It such a mess, I have said to my super boss that I dont think I need MS degree, now If i go for fellowship, he will surely be hating me as fellowship is for MS and phd only.

I am confused in what I want and what I should want.

I dont know if what I am wanting is actually what is beneficial for me

[true harness]

there are plenty of project ideas floating around; you just have to search for them

[vital wyvern]

What do you want to do? What is the healthiest for your career and interests?

[pastel thunder]

Earlier I wanted to do an MS, that would

• be risky
• I might not get H1B (lucky draw based)
• I will have to leave my full time job at cadence design systems (I joined 1.5 months back)

Healthiest for my career, would

• be to join HFT asap
• not to be classified as a job hopper

[vital wyvern]

Is HFT... high frequency trading or does that mean something that isn't obvious to me?

[pastel thunder]

that, yes

[vital wyvern]

Is this your first "real" job?

[pastel thunder]

I switched recently, from a startup (worked 1 year, 1.5 month)
total exp is 1.x year only

[vital wyvern]

You're still fairly young in your career; if you think your job opportunities are limited where you're at, then you have some room to make mistakes.
That said-- it cannot possibly hurt you to accrue some experience.

I won't comment on HFT or Quants or whatever they're going by these days-- but I'll say pretty confidently that... I wouldn't recommend that as a career plan.

[slim junco]

Hi, I am 16 right now. I am doing about 5 minutes of Python learning every day and My goal is to be a programmer when I am older. Thoughts? Tips? Recommendations?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[open ivy]

Is there a cellular automata fan club or a generative art group that would like to discuss this little hobby of yours with you?

Your code does not need to be that impressive to get a networking boost. Just be willing to discuss what motivated you to do it, how it is different than what is out there (even if only a small change), etc.

Its very hard to solve a Big Problem in computer science. But if you care about your work, and are happy to talk (and listen to others), I think having a portfolio with projects such as this is good enough for networking. It shows a passion. It shows competency. It shows curiosity. I would much rather work with a programmer who likes to code for fun than one in it only for the income.

[vapid jay]

huh lol

[open ivy]

It looks like Langtons ant.

[vapid jay]

I dont code like that lmao I enjoy coding

[open ivy]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Patterns-generated-by-five-co-existing-Langtons-ants_fig1_224247767

[vapid jay]

I was watching programming war crimes

[vapid jay]

lol does too

[outer rivet]

I was contacted by a third-party recruiter yesterday for a contract role. He asked a few questions, which also showed that he didn't know that this software that I've been using isn't just for the industry that this contract role exists in. Like I told him what company I work and I repeatedly had to explain that the company I work at I not the same industry.

For an equivalence, it would be like if worked a mechanic shop and the recruiter asked about my experience with screwdrivers for a construction company job, and because he knows this job uses screwdrivers and I have experience using screwdrivers, he keeps asking if my current company is also a construction company. It pissed me off.

Anyway, this recruiter passes it to his boss, who calls me, takes my resume and rate confirmation, and tells me that he's gonna send it to his "partner" who will later contact me, but he also tells me when they ask for my employer, to "represent" him. His exact words, "If they ask you 'who is your Employer ?' Please Represent <Recruiter name censored> from <Recruiter Company censored>"

Is this suspicious?

[smoky quest]

wat.
I didn't follow:

• The whole last paragraph
• Changing industry is totally normal. A frontend engineer in healthcare is gonna do the exact same thing in finance. So what's the catch here?

[outer rivet]

Yeah, they would do the same thing. But, keeping with this metaphor, the guy, for some reason, thinks that JavaScript is only used in finance.

Like saying, "so you work in a finance company, right?"
I respond, "no, I work in healthcare."
"But you use JavaScript?"
"Y...yes."
"So, then it's finance, right?"
I have to explain, "this tech is not exclusive to that industry."

[smoky quest]

ok and then why does it matter?

[outer rivet]

It just shows how little they understand what the hell they're even talking about.

[smoky quest]

indeed. And that won't change even as you progress throughout your career. The great recruiters are rare.

But hey, if they can find you a good job, I can live with that

[chilly furnace]

I just got my first REAL job in an IT department and there are no furry programmers.

[fleet reef]

Weird
I'm sorry
Hopefully the next one will be better

[harsh river]

be the change you want to see /s

[vapid jay]

Can I make standard anti-virus app using python?

[chilly furnace]

@vapid jay ok

[vapid jay]

Thanku, but in that case the app will be slower than the one that is build by c++ or c#.

[vapid jay]

I have two options
Bachelor of science with honors in computing science
Or bachelor of information technology

Are these very different to the jobs I can get?

[chilly furnace]

Imo honors meaningless

[vapid jay]

hello guys

i want to learn python and go into AI can someone help me how can i do it?

[pine sleet]

#data-science-and-ml pins have resources, as for a career you will most likely need a master's

[vapid jay]

@pine sleet okay tysm

[willow iron]

hey Sorry for disturbing , i am soo confused which feild to go and how to recruit jobs ?
also which field i can go in python ,
for that what type of projects i need to showcase?

PING ME IF SOMEONE REPLy

[white relic]

Yes, CS and IT are different fields with different career paths.
"Honors" means different things depending on where you live but it probably doesn't mean much for your eventual career.

[vapid jay]

if i want to be a python developer what skills should i learn?

[vapid jay]

how different are they? i honestly just want to work and earn the most money

[leaden jasper]

High contrast is really bad for me

[vapid jay]

.

@chrome hamlet iam already a graduate what skills should i learn tho

[white relic]

In very broad strokes, IT covers stuff like system administration, hardware maintenance, networks, helpdesk, and some kinds of automation. CS has to do with software development, architecture, and theory of computation. There can be some overlap. Again in very broad strokes, IT may be easier to get into, but CS may have higher long term earning potential.
There's no wrong choice; it's a very personal decision. What kind of work interests you?

[fringe sphinx]

What skills do you know? Whats your degree and career goal?

[vapid jay]

@fringe sphinx i know java C HTML CSS i have CS degree i did 2 years as a QA Analyst lost job due to recession what to learn development and get a job

i did QA on Guidewire PC CC BC

[fringe sphinx]

Learning Python should be straightforward then, altho there's many 'levels' to learning. Check out this resources link:

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fleet kernel]

hey guys
i want to apply for a data analyst role, they ask mainly (sql, powerbi, blahblahblah) and a friend of me that is currently working there, adviced me about creating a project or portafolio about gather a bunch of data and show something, but i dont know what to do, or what can i do, i know some sql and i can learn powerbi, but you know my question is if you can give me like an advice about what could i do

btw hi billybobby

[vapid jay]

@fringe sphinx hmm okay tnx

[fringe sphinx]

Take a look and ask for help in #python-discussion : do some basic projects, Python will seem weird at first if you know C and Java.

[vapid jay]

ok sure

[fringe sphinx]

Check out Kaggle.com/learn for data analysis skills, and Kaggle has many data sets for analysis

[fleet kernel]

does kaggle has data that i can work with? wow that's really helpful ill check it out, anyways if you have an special advice or something im all ears

[vapid jay]

What kind of work interests you?
sorry i'm not sure as i'm very much a beginner. generally i'd incline towards a desk job (less physical exertion) with flexible hours. i'm really not sure so i might just do a bit of everything. i think i'd enjoy the theoretical aspects of natural language (like llms) but no complex math, i've been reccomended cloud work for the money

[fringe sphinx]

Chasing (specific) tech jobs 'for the money' is pointless. They all pay well, and pay best when you like (and are good) at what you're doing.

If you're just in it for the money, with zero interest or enjoyment, you probably wont do very well: hard to be great at something you don't like.

But regardless: as a beginner, your focus should be on learning lots of things, not one thing.

[muted night]

Tech support seems good for u 🤔

[near ocean]

IDEs, extensions and themes arent career related

[leaden jasper]

But it is useful

[near ocean]

But it's offtopic

[buoyant seal]

#editors-ides this topic belongs over there.

[leaden jasper]

Aha Sorry

[vapid jay]

but CS may have higher long term earning potential.
Wdym?

[tranquil hollow]

hi i need help how i can make vs2022 run in output not in cmd

[fringe sphinx]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

(not this channel)

[tranquil hollow]

ty bro in not see this channel

[fringe sphinx]

Senior SWEs will generally out earn Senior IT folks, for a variety of reasons (including a higher skill ceiling). Not to say IT isn't a perfectly solid career, and you can have a successful career in it. (that's not to say that all do... not everyone reaches the top tiers)

[narrow crag]

Hi Guys, is there anyone learning Python with 100 days of code with Angela Yu?
I am now at the sectin 58 and looking for a learning body.

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion

[west creek]

Is anyone here a quant? I want to know because I wanna get into this industry. Currently taking computer science as my undergrad and I plan to take computational finance as my master's.

Like, someone who works as a quant who specializes in Python?

[peak halo]

be sure to always ask the question you would ask if your ideal answerer were present. "Is anyone here a quant? I want to know ..."

[vapid jay]

Could Python be effectively utilized in the field of circuit engineering? If not, what alternative language would be more suitable?

[west creek]

Can't you do that with the SciPy framework? Python has a lot of scientific libraries from what I know.

[rancid saffron]

hey what are the perks of server booster?

[white relic]

"circuit engineering" might be a term I'm not familiar with. Are you referring to electric circuits, like electrical/electronic engineering? That's a broad field but there's certainly plenty of uses for Python.

[harsh river]

#community-meta is the place to ask, but not much, just the nitro booster role

[white relic]

That said, it wouldn't be on top of my list of things you need to know to be an EE, either.

[hardy depot]

I don't quite know what specifically you mean by circuit engineering--like pcb layout, thermal and rf analysis on a circuit, or the actual design of the chip itself in etched silicon.
But the answer to the above is yes:
KiCAD:https://www.kicad.org/ is an open source Electronics Design Automation Suite and is largely c++ but has a very powerful set of python bindings: https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad-python
There's soooome stuff for rf emission analysis but it's not really something I see much of: https://rfic.io/posts/ScikitRF-Get-Started/
Some Finite element analysis software out there as well which can be very useful for thermals: https://fenicsproject.org/
And of course as pointed out, there's scipy: https://scipy.org/ For everything under the sun. (If you need any DSP functions Scipy has it)
There are even some embedded boards that use a subset of python called MicroPython: https://micropython.org/download/
One of Python's strongest points is how quickly you can iterate as you're building something.
I think it's a great language to start with for EE and related projects, and if you NEED something else, then it's ok to not use python. (The best language to use is always the language that solves your problems under your constraints, and many times that means it's not python and that's perfectly fine. For example depending on a lot of things, you might end up using c or c++ for embedded work, etc)

[spring whale]

Wud this chat consider writing a yt summariser in python a basic or intermediate task?

[fringe sphinx]

Certainly not a beginner task to process audio/text and call some API to summarize it.

but, who knows what "basic" or "intermediate" means anyway.

[spring whale]

Nah so heres the tea. Used a transcript module to get transcripts, wrote a lil logic to put all the transcripts in a string gave it to gemini to summarise it. Now i feel this was kinda basic

[fringe sphinx]

Everything feels basic when you know how to do it 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

But yes, that is fairly basic... but now you can do the next step, whatever that is. If you want some ideas on what to do, maybe ask in #data-science-and-ml

[spring whale]

Fr

[spring whale]

Yep i have some ideas i want to implement. Thanks for the feedback

[fringe sphinx]

One thing you could do is check out Ollama and play with other models

[unreal lake]

Your online presence is your personal brand. Are you presenting the best version of yourself to employers?
Let’s explore how to optimize your profile and showcase your strengths

[whole flare]

🤔

[near ocean]

Are you a real person?

[tall delta]

Is someone working with ML or AI with Python?

[fringe sphinx]

Someone is, yes.

[fringe sphinx]

What would you ask them?

[tall delta]

How the salary is, just kidding (half though):
In a Big Company how does you daily job life looks like

[prisma rampart]

If anyone need a developer, please contact me.

[west creek]

So is anyone here in quant finance, more specifically a developer who implements the mathematical models in Python? I really gotta know.

[fringe sphinx]

There's many folks in here in finance and fintech, not sure any true quants (might be lurking).

[west creek]

To be fair though, it's hard to get into the industry.

[fringe sphinx]

Did you have a question tho?

[safe ice]

https://lu.ma/ke0rwi8n

[whole flare]

?

[arctic iron]

Hi

How can someone with years of experience in web application get a remote Job? Do they need to work open source or something unique?

I have been working onsite with software companies in Pakistan.

Of course, i have been working on real world projects but they are named with company not me. So i can not say i have been working on those projects as it was in contract not to disclose.

In other country

[fringe sphinx]

The contract says you can't list their work experience on your resume?

Or only that you can't disclose the content of your work?

[arctic iron]

Can't list their work experience on my resume.

[fringe sphinx]

First, yes that sounds weird and I'd ask a lawyer to clarify. You -may- be mistaken.

[willow iron]

hey Sorry for disturbing , i am soo confused which feild to go and how to recruit jobs ?
also which field i can go in python ,
for that what type of projects i need to showcase?

[fringe sphinx]

Second, wouldn't that still allow you to list the work but leave company name as 'confidential'?

[arctic iron]

if I list those projects on my resume. I have no proof that I was working on those products.

Because the company is using fake names for communication.

[fringe sphinx]

Do you have a pay check?

[arctic iron]

I mean, company is using fake names. Reason is if someone leave the company it would not affect the project. The are working on projects from years as team.

[arctic iron]

Paycheck is from the company.

[fringe sphinx]

Anyways this all sounds very suspicious. Talk to a lawyer: it seems incorrect not to be able to list a company name on your work experience, and I'm sure there's some way to do it, but get real advise.

Work experience is -very- important to your next job.

[arctic iron]

Yeah, I can list company name on my resume,
I can not say i have been working on that big product.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. Then you're good

The project isn't why ppl hire you, it's what you can do.

[arctic iron]

🙂

But, that would be great if could list those projects on my resume. I think that would help in getting remote Job.

But yeah you are right but to list projects on resume is important as well.

[fringe sphinx]

You list the job, and your job responsibilities. A job isn't 'projects'

Like, I worked for xyz company's and I wrote Python code to automate business processes (and maybe a little about whatever tools you used)

[arctic iron]

Right.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'll be fine, emphasize your tech skills.

[arctic iron]

Great Advice. So i have to work on my communication skills.

[fringe sphinx]

Absolutely. That's always true: you get hired because people want to work with you, not just because you know things.

[arctic iron]

Yeah, so true.

[fringe sphinx]

You can post an anonymized resume here for review too.

[loud iris]

https://preview.redd.it/52b8d38o9dud1.png?width=5100&format=png&auto=webp&s=49ca405500d8a987fb5c19fbe3f4075b2c56fcfd

Please roast or nitpick my resume, not getting callbacks, already applied to like ~150 apps.

A lot of people said I focus too much on what I did rather than my impact and value I brought to the company. Hoping I addressed that with these recent changes. I don't have exact metrics available though.
Other common feedback I received, hoping the following were addressed:

• Projects not impactful or complex enough for 3YOE?
• Too bland/vague?
• Bulletpoints too long?
• Too flowery/inflated for simple tasks?
• Not enough metrics/numbers?
• Bulletpoints not specific enough?
• Not enough content/too much whitespace?
• Missing any keywords or experiences for full stack developers?

[old bridge]

Spacing is a bit irregular than they're used to seeing so maybe a bit too much white space.

Skills should probably be at top, education should stay where it's at. Don't put your graduation years its been a while since you've graduated so it's no longer relevant for your resume

[crisp heart]

Can we make a website or an app using only python and with help of Ai to run on python editor

[old bridge]

Yes look into Django for it's MVC architecture

[crisp heart]

Django and Flask, but I have to buy hosting and domain for to use in public or world

[crisp heart]

MVC architecture?

[old bridge]

Not necessarily you just need to port forward your own network and run it on your own computer

[old bridge]

Model View Controller

Data models, templating for views, and you have your routing

Similar to Golang

Yeah you can run ts for the freeski gang. But I can't imagine it'll be too optimal

[crisp heart]

ok, thanks btw Where u from ?

[old bridge]

The hood

[crisp heart]

Country ?

[old bridge]

Hoodville

[loud iris]

Thanks for feedback. What about the bulletpoints? Are they fine?

[crisp heart]

explain this one and What is Golang or routing, or How can I run it in my PC, Plzz explain it

[old bridge]

I feel like resume enhancement is a psychological puzzle almost, you have to kinda do obvious stuff. Like your bullet points might need to be a bit meatier because when they look at it for that split second they need to decide if its worth even reading or not and if they don't see too much in the bullet points they may feel like it's different from the qualified candidates they've seen.

Usually qualified candidates will have a good bit of technical achievements and jargon to add in their bullet points. The metrics is good, just be prepared to defend your reasoning for your numbers in an interview

[old bridge]

Only big boys can use Golang

[fringe sphinx]

Overall, I like it. As mentioned, spacing/padding is inconsistent. It's just a bit scattered/untailored. You've done lots of good things, but aren't conveying strength at any particular one thing. You could tailor this for specific positions by emphasizing different aspects of your experience. Also, a project or two might help emphasize an area of focus.

If you're not getting callbacks, work on some tailored versions

[crisp heart]

ah

[old bridge]

Yes unfortunately

[old bridge]

Carpal tunnel, anyone?

[smoky quest]

Overall it's too weak and inconsistent in the bullets.
Examples of raw feedback:

• Your first bullet is about implementing REST APIs. So you are telling me, the reviewer, that over the 3 years you have been at the company, the thing you are the most proud of and feel the most accomplished about (since it's your first bullet, that's the most important thing you want tell), is that you have implemented GET/POST/PUT/DELETE.
• Because your very first bullet of the thing you find the most accomplished about is implementing GET/POST/PUT/DELETE, it means that you find that very difficult, which then sets a bar very low in terms of your technical skills. So to improve your first bullet, describe what these APIs did. Because we all agree that the interesting part is what they do, not that they are REST apis.
• _ show, don't tell_. Every single candidate states they have optimized things or they have developed web pages or rest APIs. Everyone will claim they are the best, just like what you did. If you want to get called back, you have to show these properties. What type of optimization have you done? What methodology have you adopted? How much query/s have you had to manage?
• Your numbers don't pass the smell test. As a reminder, the percentage of improvement is defined as 100 * (NEW_VALUE - OLD_VALUE) / OLD_VALUE. So to get a 99% improvement, you need to reduce someting from 100 to 1. Yet, the overall repsonse time is only impacted by 15%. I am sure you have good reasons for that, but as a reader without any context, it would look suspicious. So make sure numbers don't seem to appear out of a hat, especially for something like "efficiency" without units

[old bridge]

Always do hand stretches every hour such as the prayer hands stretch and the nerve flossing stretches

May want to wear braces when typing, as the keystrokes are impacts that wear down your flexor tendons over time. I have constant flexor tendon pain now because of this coding shi
(This section is seemingly misleading at first glance, as it seems to suggest the wrist braces protect your flexor tendons, but in reality they just lock your wrist in place. This will not prevent flexor tendon pain as that happens in your fingertips)

Once you get carpal tunnel it doesn't go away unless you stop programming altogther and for most of us that's not an option considering it's what allows us to fill our faces with greasy, fat filled food daily

Don't say a young man didn't warn you

[fringe sphinx]

Took me years to get over mine. Now I rock a split keyboard. I distinctly remember being warned at freshman orientation too. Recovering involved a hand-brace and an app that reminded me to get up and move around.

[old bridge]

When it first came it was horrible, couldn't use my hands to do a damn thing, not even cook myself food. Was very painful. Now it's just nerve pain when typing. Braces and stretches help

[fringe sphinx]

dr billybobby says: hit the gym and do lots of pulling exercises... we spend all our time hunched forward.

[old bridge]

Good idea. Will incorporate this into my exercise plan

Humans need to hurry up and evolve to this already

[fringe sphinx]

Even stretchy bands help (pull them apart/etc). Even better, get a pullup bar and slowly work your way up. Doesn't need to be fancy.

[old bridge]

They got a gym in my apartments

Also the PS5 gaming worsens it..probably the real root cause tbh I be on there flip pancaking people daily

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, gaming is terrible for posture... worse than work.

[old bridge]

Yeah we need some sort of internal maintenance system update
Ts is not working for modern times

[fringe sphinx]

it's called going to the gym (or for a walk, or to the park). I guess it's also called touching grass 🙂

[old bridge]

I need to be durable without all of these slow mechanical self care techniques
Not enough time in the human world to be doing all of that tbh

[fringe sphinx]

There's even less time if you don't.

[old bridge]

True. Can't defeat the system as an individual unit

[burnt ore]

Hi team, I started a new job with a company. But there’s another role at work that I am interested. How would you start a conversation with the company about this position?

[smoky quest]

I probably would not

[burnt ore]

Why? what are the pros and cos?

cons

[smoky quest]

too much troubles than it's worth:

• You joined that first team as a stepping stone
• You have demonstrated you do not know what you want
• How could they believe your interest won't change 2 weeks later again
• That first team had to pass on other candidates for you and will now have to look again. Which, is always a pain

So that's a lot to overcome when you are an unknown quantity, haven't proven yourself and people do not know you

[burnt ore]

That makes sense. I kinda agree with you. My current role is non-technical. It's a good opportunitiy to get my foot at the door.

[smoky quest]

Right. So I would suggest to still aim for the technical job, but don't be too greedy. Start by proving yourself in your current role and then that you can take on bigger things and then to that other role

By then you will have proven yourself, built domain knowledge, built trust, etc.
It doesn't have to take years, but it will be rather difficult to pull it off right off the bat when joining

[burnt ore]

I do get asked multiple times "How you like your job"? I always say I like my job and it's a good place to work and hangout.

Just trying to be a member of the team.

[smoky quest]

you can always add things like "and am always looking for ways to have impact" or learn more

[burnt ore]

Okay.

@smoky quest Thanks again for your help. I like the company, we have a good team, just wanted to hear feedback.

[smoky quest]

np. Don't see it as a stopping block. Don't stop trying and don't stop learnin. And have fun!

That may be cynical, but "overqualified" people do not join jobs to prove they are overqualified. They join lower jobs because they couldn't get jobs at the level they think they are qualified. At least, that's how it would be interpreted in general

So from there, you start with a handicap. And the only thing to do is to look for the job you actually want to do, be it internally or externally. Because the longer you stay at that overqualified job, the longer it will be a demonstration of your current level

If your question is about why that other person got promoted, your best course of action is to ask your manager about what to improve on and to chart a growth plan for yourself

[hazy wagon]

I get what you mean , but things are a bit more complicated. Just wanted an opinion but nvm . The job is gone anyway for the better. Thx for your time

[smoky quest]

np. I can only work with the info I got.
Good luck!

[fringe sphinx]

Seek out feedback and input from people around you and set aside your ego. Most people are very unaware of their faults. What you're saying suggests that you may be unaware or naive with regard to the non technical skills needed to get to the next level.

[fleet reef]

<@&831776746206265384>

[old bridge]

What did they say

[fleet reef]

It was removed for a reason.

[old bridge]

I suppose you couldn't put it in your own words?

[pine sleet]

its off topic and not important

[old bridge]

Okay humans. Have it your way

@smoky quest I did something similar before realizing they may see it. Sure enough they did and moved me to that team when I really wanted to be on the other team 🤦‍♂️

I didn't take that into account at first because the action was done out of uncertainty (wasn't sure if I'd get the first one so wanted to play it safe, not knowing my recruiter would see the application...)

To be fair it's been plenty of times that the recruiter didn't see any of my other duplicates (in other job search instances). I was partially justified for the assumption, but clearly it produced an unforeseen side effect

[paper canopy]

what's yalls opinion on the current SWE job market

[fringe sphinx]

Anything in particular?

[paper canopy]

Ive j heard its pretty bad and that the future is even more bleak but I sense overexxageration about AI and fear mongering

wanted to balance out the perspectives a bit

[pine sleet]

statisticially speaking i believe it is somewhat worse compared to previous years, but as an individual if you're skilled you should be fine

just keep working on yourself, build more projects, expand your skillset, work on your resume

[fringe sphinx]

My opinion is: the job market is not some static thing, it goes up and down depending on various factors (including economic trends). I've experienced 3 or 4 downturns and they've all been different, but I accept that there's cycles and changes in the market.

What happened over past 4 years was some very extreme swings, massive over hiring followed by a massive correction that we're still dealing with.

[paper canopy]

where do u predict it goes in the future, is an SWE skillset smth worth investing in as a freshman in college?

[pine sleet]

nobody can predict the future, but i don't believe the field of CS and SWE are really going anywhere soon

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not particularly worried about AI tho... I think it'll be a job creator and a net positive for the field.

[paper canopy]

thats good, my philosophy is to get as many highly technical skills as possible to become all around better at problem solving to hopefully stay valuable as AI gets smarter

[fringe sphinx]

Anecdotally: CS grads with reasonable preparation seem to get multiple interviews and land jobs. The tech market is much bigger than FAANG.

[paper canopy]

thats why im gonna try and aim for quant so if I fall short I was headed in the right direction

[fringe sphinx]

The number one goal is: be good at whatever you choose. Being mediocre is a terrible plan.

[paper canopy]

Im also at a pretty target school which should hopefully help

[fringe sphinx]

Seek out diverse sources of learning. Don't need to grind, but: Uni clubs, reading, guest lectures or colloquia, conferences (or conference videos like europython or pycon), etc are great sources of new perspectives

[old bridge]

Personally I suggest grinding. At least you get [to see results a lot quicker than you would if you opted out of grinding]. You'll definitely get something out of it. Just know nothing comes without costs frl burnout is real so be strategic about your breaks and do meditation in the morning daily

Do most of your learning in the morning if you can help it

[paper canopy]

meditate before or after learning?

[old bridge]

In the morning after you wake up to maintain your general mental health

You have to meditate from a place of gratefulness for the things you have achieved up to this point and for the things you are blessed to have

So you'd wake up, perform your daily hygienic routine, and then sit in a relaxed position and close your eyes and try to clear your mind. You want to try to focus on the immediate sounds around you, or the processes within your body. You don't want to be thinking about anything at all. Just emptiness and complete presence of mind (yes, this is something that you must train your brain to do by repetition & consistency. A trick is to just focus yourself everytime your brain goes off track. Don't let the uncomfortable feeling of learning dissuade you if you wish to be successful in this task)

10-20 minutes of that and then journal an entry about your gratefulness

[paper canopy]

dope, will implement

[old bridge]

What is a descriptor in Python?

Yes

It's one of the main characteristics

[clever sedge]

sup yall, brand new to coding

[smoky quest]

nice!

[echo crow]

I want to work in IT-Security/Cyber-Security in the future. Thats why i started to learn python first to get in the coding World. Is there any good road map or smth like that for it?

[native hedge]

https://roadmap.sh/cyber-security

[stable shoal]

if a professor emails me how i am doing and i respond with "I am doing immaculate"

is that okay

[fringe sphinx]

Why would they ask how you are doing? Is there some reason for their concern?