career-advice

[severe solar]

Hi everyone. Please I want to take the step to learn how to code and I would want to know if any of you would help me out and mentor me up from beginner level

[vapid jay]

guys

[gritty rivet]

That was all you, good luck 🙂

[gritty rivet]

You're not likely to find a stranger offering one-on-one mentorship for free.

If you're serious about a career as a software engineer, then you should get a CS degree

If you're starting from zero one free resource I see recommended a lot is the CS50 course from Harvard. But dive in to whatever works for you. If you have specific Python questions see #❓｜how-to-get-help .

[floral owl]

im using a book right now called, python crash course third edition, is this a good start?

[gritty rivet]

If it has you writing code and moving forward, then yes! The best way to learn is subjective and personal, there's no wrong way as long as you are putting in the work and making progress

[safe coral]

@gritty rivet I got a job lol

[gritty rivet]

It sounds like you struggled for a long time, got a bunch of advice from a bunch of people here, and then things moved very quickly after that. Exciting!

Was there a main lesson or advice that helped? Was it all about getting feedback and revising your resume ?

[safe coral]

Damian’s resume template worked

👽

[gritty rivet]

Is that Jake's (#career-advice message) or something else?

[safe coral]

Yeah 45 dollars an hour plus 5K sign on bonus @turbid bobcat

One interview with them. It was a written interview. They asked me bunch of questions and I answered them. I think they liked my answers cuz my answers for the questions were like 3 pages

🤣🤣 I milked the answers basically

Yeah unless it’s a big company

Then you go for a lengthy interview process

This company has like 50-75 employees so it’s rather small. I had a phone interview and then they said they would send me a questionnaire asking me bunch of questions

Which was like a second interview?

Because they asked some technical and behavioral questions in the written questionnaire

Yeah it’s an entry level position too

[true harness]

huh. definitely sus to not have any live interview

[safe coral]

It’s a remote job

[true harness]

sure but not even zoom?

[safe coral]

I was suspicious too but company is real and everything

I agree on this! Easy interviews hahahaha @turbid bobcat

[severe solar]

Thank you so much

[thorn rapids]

guys is esquel a thing?

[crystal spade]

I’m looking for a coding buddy or even a team, I’m seeking experience and knowledge along the way working on projects that will add up to my resume. I’m very very dedicated and passionate of what I’m doing and I will do my very best to contribute to our projects success as a team. If you are looking for a person like me please dm me, thanks a lot

[gritty rivet]

There are endless open source projects on GitHub with issues waiting for a volunteer to jump in and grab. Here are some ideas: https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners

[crystal spade]

I appreciate this I will check it out

[fringe sphinx]

I'm a bit confused. Never heard of an offer without a live (zoom incl) interview.

But, Peterson seems to be a consulting shop: contracting labor out. With an hourly rate, there's no guarantee of number of hours is there?

https://www.ptechpartners.com

Not saying this is bad, consulting/contract work is good money. They may be gambling on bringing talent in and keeping the ones who thrive

The old; hire fast/sort it out later strategy.

[honest thunder]

Hello, BillyBobby

I am seeking my partners for collaborating.

[fringe sphinx]

Before you ask, we don't allow recruiting here 🙂

[balmy mural]

Jiggly said it's 50-75 employees, so if I'm looking at the right company on linkedin, the median tenure is actually 6 years. Whole interview process just being a single technical screening seems very off to me though

[fringe sphinx]

Employee counts are hard to read. If it's the firm I'm looking at, their business is basically contract and fte placement

The hourly part of the offer is significant, which is how most of these firms contract to the end customer

[safe coral]

Yeah it’s a full time position with benefits. It’s not a contract position. I get full benefits @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

What I'm saying is: Peterson (if I'm looking at right firm) is a contract/staffing firm, meaning that your work would be contract work for their customers, not for the company itself

That's at least my read of their profile.

Not saying good or bad, just stating what I think is their business.

[safe coral]

Yeah that’s true!

[fathom reef]

Hi @true harness
I 'd liket to get into cybersecurity.

[true harness]

#career-advice message

[safe coral]

It’s remote from home @turbid bobcat

I know my responsibilities yes 😄

[fringe sphinx]

Also saw https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/127pij9/peterson_technologies_reviews/

My theory is simply that they ascribe to a hire fast philosophy, but still? This is pretty fast

[safe coral]

Objectives of this role:
• Develop, implement, and maintain leading-edge analytics systems, taking
complicated problems and building simple frameworks
• Identify trends and opportunities for growth through analysis of complex
datasets
• Evaluate organizational methods and provide source-to-target mappings and
information-model specification documents for datasets
• Create best-practice reports based on data mining, analysis, and visualization
• Evaluate internal systems for efficiency, problems, and inaccuracies, and develop
and maintain protocols for handling, processing, and cleaning data
• Work directly with managers and users to gather requirements, provide status
updates, and build relationships

[fringe sphinx]

Excited for you!

[gritty rivet]

Is this an email? I would make sure they're emailing from the actual domain of the company before giving any personal details just to be safe

[fringe sphinx]

I'd just be super careful about bank info. This is borderline scam framing.

If they ask for you to wire money or anything like that, run.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-alerts/2023/08/scammers-impersonate-well-known-companies-recruit-fake-jobs-linkedin-and-other-job-platforms

Def don't give bank info for your primary accts

I don't trust any of that at this point; check domain name, maybe confirm by calling main office, something legit.

[fringe sphinx]

Wouldn't be surprised if they ask them to buy the equipment for the mini office

From them.

[tawdry sable]

rate my resume/give me anything to improve it with

[fringe sphinx]

(Sorry jiggly, I'm naturally skeptical and so should you)

[safe coral]

They are giving me a check to buy stuff for my office

[fringe sphinx]

That is extremely weird

[safe coral]

The computer and the desk

[fringe sphinx]

This might the a check kite scam too.

[safe coral]

But the domain is not spoofed it’s actually from them. My proton email always says when the domain is spoofed

[fringe sphinx]

Nobody hires without talking to you. Hourly rates are unusual for full time engineer positions. Sending a check to buy equipment is weird.

Dm me the message headers, let's not dox the person

The full header

[safe coral]

Okay

[vapid jay]

I wouldn't send any personal information such as social security number to a company like that over email. They will want that during the onboarding process.

[fringe sphinx]

The mailing a check part seals the deal for me (as a scam). This is like 3 different classic scams.

[gritty rivet]

Absolute red flag, this is a standard scam 😞

[safe coral]

Yeah that would be a different scenario

[balmy mural]

As someone living in a country that has 99% phased out checks, how would this work as a scam?

[safe coral]

I should ask that instead I guess…

Is the company a scam?

[gritty rivet]

If you're in the US at least, your resume shouldn't be over a page as entry level

[tawdry sable]

what do i remove? i feel like its all important/has value

[fringe sphinx]

The email came from petersontechnologiescareers.com

[gritty rivet]

Wrong question. You already verified this company exists. You haven't verified that you're actually talking to them.

[fringe sphinx]

Not the actual company.

[tawdry sable]

l could just be a I

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, I could register amazonjobcareers.com and email you from that

'Hi it's Jeff bezos, you're hired!'

[jaunty steppe]

omfg finally

[safe coral]

Yeah might be a scam

I’m gonna stay away…

[fringe sphinx]

Not might. Is. 💯

[safe coral]

Yup LinkedIn

[balmy mural]

Fastest for me was about a week. Screening with HR, technical thing done in own time, technical interview

[fringe sphinx]

I usually hire within a week of interview, no need for multiple rounds. But we're small and believe in hire fast.

[gritty rivet]

https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams

[fringe sphinx]

Usually a phone screen plus one interview round

If we were a little larger, we'd do two rounds (final with the top guy)

I don't think my false positives reduce with more rounds.

[gritty rivet]

So nice... My current job had 5 rounds of interviews over two months. I had another job where the background check took longer than I kept the job (6 months)

[delicate swift]

What are false positives? Guys that don't live up to expectations?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

Yah, so think of x,y's of hire speed and fire speed

Hire fast / fire fast vs hire slow vs fire fast, etc

There's lots of blogs talking about benefits of each strategy

[safe coral]

So I had a similar situation when I first moved to the USA

But they asked me to cash a check then lol

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this preys on the desperate. These scammers are the worst type of human.

[safe coral]

Oh well whatever and no I don’t have anymore interviews @turbid bobcat

[hearty island]

Sorry about this man, I would just keep applying to other roles. I was skeptical when you sent it to me as well

[thorn rapids]

can anyone help me in SQL?

[smoky quest]

you may find more help in #databases instead of here in #career-advice

[thorn rapids]

oh ok thanks

[balmy mural]

So, general question on CVs. I've done a lot of work at my company past year, but outside of one or two specific things I can think of, majority of it is just continuous feature development as business requirements come in. I can't specifically think of much I can mention on my CV about it. Any advice on how to put that in a CV or how to try and extract some of the useful stuff I did do and put it onto bullet points for my CV?

[torpid birch]

Is trying to build a SaaS product a phase that everyone has? Like i see everyone on linkedin "creating" a SaaS product and then selling the narrative that they are Entrepreneurs, does that actually do something to achieve more profile clicks and job offers?

[smoky quest]

aren't SaaS products real products?

[smoky quest]

This is way too underspecified to help

[white relic]

Any metrics you have that can be reported in aggregate? Tickets resolved per week, or something like that?

[torpid birch]

Yep, even tho they may have no interaction i supose it is still a product and they had work doing it

[smoky quest]

so why would they care about more profile clicks and job offers if their intent is to build a successful product?
If anything I would say it speaks more about how the bar to building a product has been lowered

[gritty rivet]

I think mostly they are actually hoping their product will succeed. Mostly they don't succeed. But often they do demonstrate real skills of one kind or another

[balmy mural]

I think I should be able to aggregate this to an accurate aggregate with a bit of investigation from my side

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps start with a long list a bullets, don't worry about space, and see what patterns emerge

[balmy mural]

Yea, I'm aware it's very unspecific. Just went for the shot in the dark, once I have something I'm somewhat happy with I'll put it on here for review anyway

[white relic]

one or two specific things I can think of
is probably all you need, tbh. You don't need to record everything you ever did, just the stuff that is relevant and interesting and you are proud of, stuff that stands out. Perhaps a line item like "performed routine maintenance on the XYZ database" to give a sense of your regular responsibilities? It more or less depends on what else you have on there

[torpid birch]

I may have expressed myself in a wrong way, i was talking more about people who embezzle the CEO banner and talk a lot about the SaaS and are looking for work, nothing wrong with that, just asking if that actually makes you look more "appealing" in the recruiter eyes or if it is just gimmick and can actually make them stray away from you

[gritty rivet]

If there's zero substance to the product then yes, probably a net negative. I'm sure it also depends on the type of role and just whoever is looking. But again, I don't think finding a job is usually the primary motivation for promoting ones own product

[smoky quest]

There are plenty of people who also like to "play" startup.

So as in anything, I would just focus on the facts and what people do rather than what they say

[torpid birch]

lol sorry what?

[smoky quest]

what what?

[torpid birch]

Playing startup?

[dense mesa]

Pretending they've got a startup to get some of the "clout" without actually doing anything

[gritty rivet]

Correct.

[smoky quest]

And sometimes they even have a startup, that is just themselves or maybe with a friend.
They spam linkedin and go for conferences to either attend and do tech talk.
But never produce anything of substance such as an actual product

[fringe sphinx]

It's hard to distinguish that from just a failed entrepreneur, of which there are many

But yah, everybody is a founder and ceo/etc

[smoky quest]

yeah, that's also another category

[gritty rivet]

It's almost rational behavior when VCs are in the mood to hand out cash like candy, but those days are gone

[fringe sphinx]

My father once told me advice he had been given, when he started his first company: 'don't put president or ceo on your business card, because that tells the other side that you're really nobody/your company is tiny'

That's fine, but nobody is impressed by 'ceo' title for a tiny company

[drifting pawn]

what do you put instead?

[fringe sphinx]

Founder titles start to be impressive later, like after you raise serious money

[fringe sphinx]

Very much it depends, I guess, nowadays something like 'principal consultant' if you're in the sw biz

[gritty rivet]

"Founder" strikes me as a lot less pretentious when you leave "CEO" out of it

[balmy mural]

Need to hit the buzzwords.
Founder, CEO, CTO, Principle Engineer of Pretentious Company Ltd

[gritty rivet]

Then when you're big enough you can hire a Chief People Officer

It's not just a startup thing though... Half the people who work at most banks are Vice President of something

[fringe sphinx]

Principal. Not principle. One of my grammar pet peeves.

[deft herald]

The principal is your pal

[fringe sphinx]

(I cringe when I see it on a resume)

[smoky quest]

principAl

oh am late to the game

[deft herald]

princip[al|le]

[balmy mural]

I'm sure I spell it correctly at least 50% of the time. Never gonna get my English to be grammatically correct all the time xD

[fringe sphinx]

You can be a Principled Principal Engineer

[deft herald]

According to facebook i'm CEO of Qualcomm

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, a vp is below a director

[deft herald]

I think ours are above

[fringe sphinx]

It's a bank thing

[gritty rivet]

LOL, I'm sure they have thousands of them. It's definitely not an intuitive title for a rank and file employee

[deft herald]

For what it's worth, here's my full report tree (exec's aren't redacted cause that's all public anyway)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's normal tech hierarchy to me

[deft herald]

7 levels deep lol

[fringe sphinx]

They do, a lot of orgs have dozens of cto's or more. Its stupid

Then there's the stupid 'field cto' title

[true harness]

there's 8 people above me 🥴

[balmy mural]

CV - white space to be filled with another project I am currently working on, but not in a state to put on my CV yet

Let me re-upload, saw some info that was supposed to be redacted

[smoky quest]

It's a bit weak.
What were the cool things you are proud of from your $JOB?

[gritty rivet]

I'm not a fan of that default Latex link style with the box around, but overall this looks pretty solid!

[balmy mural]

Not necessarily cool, but just the stuff I actually had the most freedom on and did most of the work on a specific feature on. It would be the first and third bullet points

[smoky quest]

What was challenging about it?

[balmy mural]

Yea, I'm rusty with latex and couldn't get it to make a nice hyperlink in 10 seconds, so left it for now. Will be fixing that before I send it out anywhere

[runic remnant]

guys any suggestions? please go easy 1st iteration of my resume 💀, btw this for applying for internships in upcoming semesters (i was also unsure wether i should include freelancing in experience or not)

[balmy mural]

I wouldn't call anything about them specifically challenging. For the dashboard I was completely unfamiliar with Angular at the time. For contactibility, I don't actually recall anything specific being very challenging
I can maybe sit and think a bit more about some of the more recent work I've done that's more challenging/complex, but where I contributed less to the final feature than these two

[grave rock]

guys any selenium pro ?

[runic remnant]

hello , i see ill try to reduce it to 1 page

any idea what i should eliminate or condense out here to restrict this to 1 page

i could prolly merge a few points here and there

fair ty

[smoky quest]

Yeah it's tough. Especially if it's your first year in your very first job

worth bringing it up in #community-meta

[balmy mural]

Sounds like nothing inherently wrong with my resume though, just a bit weak . Since I'm not actually any rush to move, what's the best steps to improve on it? Company will of course get this one to already start looking for positions to transfer me to within the company, but for future applications to other companies?
Good projects that show off 👏 demonstrated👏 skills👏
and
Taking on some more responsibility at work and trying to pick up work that challenges me more and/or has a bigger impact for business?

[smoky quest]

The main issue is that there is no shortage of other candidates who did broader/deeper projects.

As such, the main action item for you would be to look for projects that would make it easier to sell yourself

[runic remnant]

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs I was following this resume template

so what changes should i make section wise?

• can u like circle the space misuses or like point in that area
• and should i make the experience profession headers to 1 line rather than current 2

I see yeah those newlines in the sections which overflow does have a lot of wasted space

[balmy mural]

Cool, so I'll just keep working on my current project then. It'll expand a bit on the technologies I know, add some cloud experience, and CICD tools, and is open ended enough to keep building and expanding on

[runic remnant]

better?

ty guys for your help, I am open to any suggestions or thoughts feel free to ping me 😄

[safe coral]

How is my resume now?

Does this look better? @smoky quest

[vapid jay]

You should remove personal identifying information such as your email and phone number when sending a resume on this channel

[safe coral]

meh Ive been pretty open about everything 🥲

[vapid jay]

Are you applying to Data Science roles?

[safe coral]

Yeah Data Science/Analyst

[normal burrow]

helloo

[safe coral]

I didnt change it @turbid bobcat

my callbacks are from scam companies hahahahaha 🥲

[harsh river]

Does this look better?
implies it got changed

[safe coral]

I added some bulletpoints to my projects

[little mango]

Hi

[muted bridge]

I would like to know if this is a competitive application for SWE internships. The position I'm looking at is only for freshmen/sophomores. Also, please let me know if there are any changes that need to be made.

[true harness]

damn, loot lake. commute to tilted towers must be a pain

[muted bridge]

yeah but I make it work

[fringe sphinx]

Procured? Liaised? Administered? A little too much time with gpt and/or a thesaurus. 🙂

[muted bridge]

What's wrong with big words?

[fringe sphinx]

Lead with the important part... for the Jane st you lead with 'received 5000$' instead of what you did

[muted bridge]

Makes sense, thanks

[fringe sphinx]

In this case, I think they're misused, and generally it's one of my 'gpt alarms': doesn't real plain and simple

[muted bridge]

Better?

[true harness]

why can't you just say "worked with". knowing vocab is as much choosing the right words as knowing the words to begin with

[muted bridge]

I saw it in someone else's resume and it sounded fancy so I included it

I'll go with simpler words then

[fringe sphinx]

It just seems out of place

[muted bridge]

Anything else, content-wise? And do I seem like a competitive candidate?

[fringe sphinx]

Seems strong to me.

[vapid jay]

You're joking asking that question with your resume right?

[muted bridge]

huh

[vapid jay]

It's a compliment

[peak halo]

for the "Trust in GAI" project, you should probably list your title as "Undergraduate Research Assistant"

[muted bridge]

Alright

[mental bough]

hi guys

uhmm so i wanted to ask that if i ask for help here do people get annoyed or like is it fine

[sweet cypress]

Not necessarily cause they are big--i have never seen liaised tho 💀 --, its because different words mean different things in different roles.
Attached I've included images I got from a free course long ago: the first one is just a bunch of action verbs, and the second one is examples of how some could be used in ur resume.

Also, for your present roles: we don't use past tense: it should instead be design, liasise, and administer--only past tense for jobs you aren't currently working in.

[vapid jay]

It's fine. Don't worry about it.

[mental bough]

Got it

[muted bridge]

thanks

[crude jacinth]

(seeking advice from more experienced) Hey, so recently I analyzed my 2 year expanses with python ( I am beginner ), it was so cool to do it, so powerful and after that I've tried it with ChatGPT, for example I gave this prompt: categorize all the expenses and plot the weekly expenses, highlighting the highest expense in each category for each week. And it done it perfectly. I understand it's a basic task, but still it is very impressive, I believe it can do much complicated things, but what about the future, I feel like I’m losing the sense of aesthetics in my work before even starting my career. So the question is do you think data scientists become obsolete like in 5 years ?

[pine sleet]

please dont spam your messages across channels

you can just help when you see a question, you don't need to tell people

#1035199133436354600 has some open threads

understood

[runic remnant]

Lisan is the current formatting and content better I updated it based on the changes you suggested, is there any other potential changes contentwise or in general I could make. Thank you for your time

in india high school u usually pick physics chem maths and either bio or cs then pick a further stream for college based on that, this is like for the final 2 years of high school based on which u give the college entrance examination of ur choice

I see, ty I'll work on the bullet points and sort those out

yeah I'll ask around

[charred citrus]

i want to learn data engineering so can anyone guid me for that?

[craggy vale]

Has anyone completed any course in jovian.ai?
if so which?

[faint depot]

Got to he data science ai channel and read the pinned section

[vapid jay]

When u apply for internships do you always apply for the field you are actually interested in or do you also apply for some others? And if you feel you are not well prepared do you still apply?

[crystal spade]

i have a business idea ready i am looking for partners that can work together to achieve this significant project. If you are interested dm me thanks a lot

[torpid birch]

Honestly i am still a bit overwhelmed by having the Project lead role, i am still looking for an app to make the roadmap, deadlines, alocate tasks etc... anyone have tips for this kind of role?

[buoyant seal]

I enjoyed this book in the past to understand what i am supposed to do in this role.
it chapter by chapter tells, how to begin project, telling about to find requirements, how to unrevail requirements into user usage case scenarioes, how to go from there to figuring data flow diagrams and then idenfigying storages and planning database, infrastructure planning and from there having all the previous info, it looks reasonable to plan tasks and roadmap.

ergh... at last i have an instruction because of this book, what to do.
My favourite chapter is definitely about requirements. 😄 if i don't know what to do, i gather requirements.

[torpid birch]

Why does it cost 115 Euros xD

[buoyant seal]

you can find it for free if u search well enough 🏴‍☠️

[torpid birch]

Yeah ik ahah but i am trying to read hard case books because i have some attentions problems

and reading on mobile/pc/tablet honestly is not really making it for me, i tried to study for CCNA at least 10x already, due to a thing called ADHD i always get distracted with somethig. This can also be excuses i know, but i have to try physical stuff first and somewhere else besides my room

[buoyant seal]

also reading hard case books is less stress onto eyes in general. i discovered that reading programming books in digital way is high stress to me, because my cognitive... visual and etc centers are already heavily occupied.

[torpid birch]

I was looking at another one neverming, from Shelly Cashman

[buoyant seal]

anyway. This book...is very heavy in amount of compressed material. I was reading it chapter by chapter for considerable time despite having maraphon to read it as quickly as possible. Comprehending the material... ergh it will take a time.
And at the same time it is still lightweight overview in general for each step of a process... and u can read for each stage of the described process, more dedicated books in depth 🙈 i got satisfied with just reading this one.

[twilit portal]

Just printing books out on sheets of A4 paper helps me with attention sometimes. Just remember to put page numbers on the bottom

[torpid birch]

That get's expensive no?

[twilit portal]

I don't know tbh, I do it rarely so I haven't thought about it

[torpid birch]

I see, have to check that but with the current prices i think it get's expensive 😄

[twilit portal]

I also used to have an e-ink device in the past, I could read books on it but do nothing else. That also helped, if you can find a cheap one it's nice

[torpid birch]

I was actually searching for the wrong one ahah

[torpid birch]

Btw about requirements, fun fact because i am the first one doing such things on this department, there is not workflow and it fucking sucks, i have to create everything from scratch, stalk people on the internal tickets to see what they are doing and how.
I asked for a better PC since mine can barely run VSCode when i start having a good amount of lines of code, virtual environments are blocked for some reason, i need to shut down the VPN every time i want to install a library.

So currently i use mine and send it to the company pc, yes i can get in trouble, but i want to make this shit happen. My manager knows this and i talked to him multiple times to ask for a better pc.

Issue is that they don't have any better Windows PC so they need to allocate a MacBook. Once again, they don't know the workflow for that and are not pushing it...
I stopped working as much as i did for while now because they are pretty much shitting on my "requirements"

For the web app i am creating, it was a fucking fight trying to get a server to host it, because there is not flow for Azure/AWS deployments, even tho the company i work for has partnership with Azure 🙂

Now we got a server, is on prem, and i am the one that needs to give all the directions and guides for the "sysadmin" to install stuff and manage the debian server...

Long text sorry...
TLDR: They are not really interested in my requirements but more about "publish first we see later"

[buoyant seal]

Linux OS for web development for the win 🙂 Super compatible with all things needed to deploy to linux servers (obviously)
And you can squeeze extra from hardware by installing zram to extend your RAM twice through compression. (pretty much main bottlenech to use today vscode/browser and other things at the same time in more amount)

[torpid birch]

I can't install OS on my work PC 😄

[buoyant seal]

it is understandable attitude partially. It depends on your experience ergh? if you are experienced and skilled enough dev, u can squeeze a lot from this.
If you are not, then high chances u can do more harm than good with it.
Also it can be hard to explain its importance to people that have no clue about it too

Anyway my favourite recommendation is to ensure you have unit tested code, including covering your database related interactions
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
Those books are a friend for that. That is my most minimal quality threshold. Everything else is optional. Everything, except this.
Ensure u have testing coverage above 50% (preferably around 80% or higher) and then any shit code becomes acceptable enough to work with 😁
P.S. it is very important that u don't miss database interacting code when covering with unit testing, and tests are actually working and launching with CI on every commit. Otherwise effect can be zero from that.
It changes a lot how well u will be efficient, and your developer comfort. Changes productivity by 3-10 times+ and further (100-1000+(and to infinity) on especially large code bases)

Thus allowing you at least somehow to iterate and change your code base to fit... changing requirements.

[torpid birch]

It isn't really undestandable in this case because i already have a lot of projects done for different clients, one of the clients is the biggest ATM Company in my country and i helped update and backup the configuration of over 16000 routers in around 3 months using python, while also leading the team for manual testing and creating the weakly reports, testing out configurations that came with errors and so on.

After that we had another HUGE client, this client needed at least 40 routers installed a day, they could only do 20-30 because configuring the routers + testing would take too long.

I helped them (again python lol) go from 20-30 daily to 200 routers ready to implement daily. They eventually ended up finishing the project way sooner than it was predicted

This is just 2 of the biggest, i did way more from the network automation perspective and i also was one of the "Seniors" on the department until i moved

Oh well, it is what it is

[buoyant seal]

ah. So you are Freelancer/short term contractor basically? and never maintain smth for multi years scope.?
Short term projects each time?

[torpid birch]

Nop, i was working for a department doing X and Y tasks, while also creating automation apps

Then they saw the profit and advantages and moved me to another department (higher pay, small but higher) and my task was to focus on automation

Now that i am here i still can't get the basic needs 😄 got to love it

[torpid birch]

It was side projects so to speak, until they were not because it became too big.
Before that i helped on the implementation of network equipments for companies. Backoffice helpdesk kinda stuff

[tall sleet]

Hello All,

I am a Solution Architect working in Automation Anywhere. I used to be a PHP/WordPress developer, and then later I joined Automation Anywhere company(7 Years experience), I have a total of 9 years of experience in IT. It is an RPA tool, so we automate processes in organizations. We provide them with a digital workforce.

I want to change my career path and do something in ML and AI. Please guide me with the path. What do you suggest for changing my career path?

[white relic]

"something in ML and AI" is a pretty vague career goal. Why that field?
Do you have a relevant degree?

[tall sleet]

Thanks for replying
yes, I have done MCA, and good at coding. and also good at learning new things.
I know C, C++ (once i created a Keylogger for testing purposes), PHP (2 years of experience), Java (Basic), and Python (Can create a simple TO-do app in Flask).

Probably the above things will give you some idea. Feel free to share if there is any other career path.

[white relic]

MCA
Museum of Contemporary Art?
Muslim Community Association?
Adam Yauch of the Beastie Boys?

[tall sleet]

master of computer application

[white relic]

ah

There are many career paths that you could take, however, if your only objective is to be doing something in AI, it's hard to give concrete advice.
One suggestion would be to look at nearby job listings that mention ML or AI or at companies that are known to use it extensively, and see what kind of openings they have and what the qualifications would be.

[white relic]

In my estimation, these languages and projects are about what I would expect from an average CS bachelor's degree holder. You won't be competitive with other applicants based on CS knowledge alone. But I'm sure you have other skills you have practiced in the years, IT knowledge, administration? management? systems analysis? You'll want to lean on those other skills and find a way to leverage your prior experience in this new area.

[silver patio]

Is Data Analyst a good role?
Should i go for it?
(I Am a Computer Science Engineer )

[fringe sphinx]

It depends on many things, including what you like/want to do

[silver patio]

Am actually starting my career
Am a Fresher

I want to choose a better field that stays in demand as well as fun to work

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't worry about job titles as a fresh. Just learn them: SWE vs DE vs DS vs DA

No matter the field, data analysis skills are important

[vapid jay]

Whats the minimum amount of time to stay at a job whilst attending grad school? I have a job offer for a statistician/research analyst position and I want to attend school while doing it. I obviously need internships during which would require me to quit. Any advice?

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? Question unclear.

[white relic]

Don't take a job with a plan to quit imminently. Talk to them about designating 8 weeks (or whatever) to being an "intern". Have your boss or senior coworker fill out the paperwork and report on your progress. They may give you a little dedicated project to work on during that time to make it relevant to your studies, or just consider your regular work duties as the internship.

I've done this before (as the senior coworker). It's not a big deal. Bring it up now, they have extended an offer, they want you; you can explain the situation and make it a condition.

[vapid jay]

Its a gov job so there's very little flexibility

My plan is to stay for a year

[smoky quest]

student/part time jobs don't really matter in terms of length as much as the real jobs once you graduate.

Beyond that, it depends on the flexibility and relationship with your employer

[vapid jay]

This is a real job. I'm going to grad school but I applied for FT positions

[smoky quest]

The proverbial interviewer will just look at them as student jobs since you haven't finished your studies

Unless it's more like you quit school and doing things like evening classes

[vapid jay]

I would only do one class a semester

[white relic]

Most employers should be happy to complete some mundane paperwork once a week for a summer in exchange for not having to hire another analyst

[vapid jay]

My plan is to do a year FT + 1 class a semester, then leave for a semester or two to find internship work

[pastel thunder]

Got it finally😭

[white relic]

It just seems unnecessary. Why would you have to leave a job to get an internship? (Assuming the job is already at least somewhat related to your studies, and not foodservice or w/e)

[buoyant scroll]

I have to learn python is there any way to learn this language in easy way?.

[vapid jay]

statistics -> swe/data engineering

[peak halo]

Don't focus on things being "easy" or "fast". Focus on it being effective.

If you're interested in what you're learning, it won't necessarily be easy, but it won't be unpleasant, either.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[near ocean]

There is a fast and easy way and its to do the work and practice like you want to learn the language instead of treating it like a chore

[torpid birch]

Yeah that is the one i am currently using

Should i? Because i work for an ISP, idk if i can actually do that 😄

[errant thicket]

how can i make money now and get a tech job with no degree any help ? i have to wait many years to get a degree and i wanna start now

[pine sleet]

it's very difficult. but maybe you can look into fields like IT that have a lower barrier to entry

[errant thicket]

ok so getting a it job could be a entry point into getting a coding job with no degree?

[errant thicket]

how is it difficult ?

[pine sleet]

assuming we're talking about a field like SWE, you're competing with people with degrees

it's quite difficult to get into SWE without a degree

IT is not as difficult, and you could leverage that experience later

[faint depot]

apologies for my brashness but get this BS out of your head about getting rich quick. If you want a decent career where youre earning a fuck ton of money, you have to put in the work. A degree will take time, I agree with you but, in a field thats highly competitive (whether thats SWE or IT), its best to get a degree. idk which country youre from, but if theres an IT apprenticeship programme available, do it; that way you can earn money and earn qualifications.

[pine sleet]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[pine sleet]

We don't allow recruiting in this server, kindly delete your message

[neat cedar]

ops ok

[woven sage]

Hi so Ive done as many tutorials as I need, I have my business plan, what should be my next steps in becoming a freelance web developer?

I think a priority is that I need experience/portfolio but Im not sure what is the best way to get that

[errant thicket]

what’s the difference between swe and it?

[smoky quest]

swe people are the one writing software
it people are the ones maintaining the wifi at the company. (they do more but it gets the point across)

[pine sleet]

start networking. freelance is hard to start off without a network

there are tens of thousands of other people just like you. you need to stand out

[woven sage]

What about gaining experience?

[pine sleet]

the other tens of thousands of people also have experience

[woven sage]

Yes, but how do I gain experience?

[pine sleet]

usually by doing an actual job

a lot of the successful freelancers are people with degrees and have been in the industry for many years

and so they can leverage the experience and connections they have from that

[woven sage]

Interesting, would anyone else have any answers for me?

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree is the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation

[woven sage]

Cool, what are the alternative options to this?

[pine sleet]

there isn't any, really. freelancing is very difficult to start off with

[woven sage]

Well, lets see what other people have to say, multiple perspectives is always good

[pine sleet]

i would agree with what r_e said

[errant thicket]

thanks so how is it not possible to get a tech job without a degree? i thought it was

[pine sleet]

depends on what you mean by "tech job". do you classify IT as a "tech job"? if so, it's far more common for those without degrees to work in IT

[woven sage]

Other users are welcome to join the conversation if you'd like🙂

[pine sleet]

it's also not impossible to get into SWE without a degree, it's just hard.
remember, it boils down to demonstrated skills. if you can prove to an employer that you're better suited for a role than the other candidates, then you get the job

however the other candidates are highly skilled people with CS degree, great internships, and great projects

[woven sage]

That is what I am most interested in, how could I prove to clients my skills without a degree or job experience?

[smoky quest]

It's like saying working in a hospital.
Without a degree, you will be closer to the janitor than the neurosurgeon

[pine sleet]

it is difficult to have skills without a degree or job experience

[woven sage]

I can accept difficult

[smoky quest]

Last bit will be projects.
But remember that each job ad will get thousands of applications from people with appropriate degrees, great projects, awesome internships/experience.
So you will need to make it up with it with projects that go far beyond what all other applicants can produce

[woven sage]

Nothing is worth doing unless it is hard in my view

[smoky quest]

That's why degrees are the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation

[pine sleet]

convince your clients to hire you instead of the other people who have many years of industry work experience, degrees (often advanced ones)

that's all it really boils down to

[woven sage]

Yep, I just need some methods of achieving that if anyone has any

[pine sleet]

how exactly is up to you, since you know yourself better than we do

[woven sage]

I disagree, as I said, its always good to get other perspectives

[fringe sphinx]

Why do things the easy way when there's a perfectly good hard way to do it.

[balmy mural]

You disagree, but could you offer a counterpoint?

[pine sleet]

well, brainstorm - pretend we're someone looking for a client (or an employee, same concept) and we have many highly qualified candidates. what are some reasons we would hire you over them?

play into your strengths

[woven sage]

So mainly projects?

[fringe sphinx]

The alt to a degree is: build your experience, most likely in an adjacent role like support or QA (non dev), while building your technical skills.

[smoky quest]

if you don't have anything else, then yes

[fringe sphinx]

No xp and no degree means no interview.

(Except perhaps through good networking and sheer luck)

[woven sage]

Oh I will do freelancing, not interviews

[pine sleet]

right, same thing we said to that other user - IT is often a good entrypoint

[woven sage]

Also, Im already going to unversity for computer science lol

[pine sleet]

then why not go for internships instead of freelancing?

[woven sage]

Internships?

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? The whole convo was about no degree

[pine sleet]

jobs that are primarily targeted towards university students

[smoky quest]

then why asking for alternatives to degrees?

[pine sleet]

if you're already studying towards a degree then you're on a good path, it's far easier

go for internships, make projects, network

and you'll be fine

[woven sage]

Are there any... less active people that would be willing to lend some suggestions/specific methods in building experience/portfolio for freelance web development? It would be much appreciated

[safe coral]

Can I vent here please?

So I started a new position part time as a SEO Analyst. When I went for an interview they told me that I would work on data analysis and stuff and that my background in statistics and data analysis would work great for the position

I accepted the position because I thought I would do like dashboards and analyze data with R and Python or use SQL

It’s nothing like that at all. They want me to do marketing analysis which I have no idea how to do. Apparently I’m supposed to use tools I’ve never heard before and stuff

And I was like reading stuff about it at work and watch videos about how to do marketing analysis and director told me that I wasn’t doing my best and I was like wtf? You saw my resume I told you what I’ve been doing in college and what I was trained for. I told him this area is not my expertise at all and he was like yes we know you are no longer a data analyst but a marketing consultant

I didn’t sign up for this? Do employers like to people about job positions because they are desperate for someone? Appearantly 3 other people quit who did what I was doing

[woven sage]

Even some tips would be nice

[true harness]

who are you looking for? 🤔

[pine sleet]

i think you are unlikely to get more differing opinions, what was stated above from what i can tell seems to be the common opinion in this channel

[woven sage]

I disagree🤷‍♂️

[errant thicket]

what field is this? this what i was looking for!

[safe coral]

What do you guys think about what I said. Isn’t this insanity?

[errant thicket]

support tech?

[fringe sphinx]

You needed a break. You have a break. Do the best you can with the opportunity.

[near ocean]

I think a title like SEO analyst is pretty clear that you would be doing market analysis

[safe coral]

Yeah but not using any of skillset

They want me to come up with marketing ideas marketing slogans and shit

[errant thicket]

so here is my thing i’m working towards getting a computer science degree but thing is how can i make money while pursing my degree i currently work at a warehouse now

[safe coral]

And they got at me today because I wasn’t knowing what I was doing @fringe sphinx

[near ocean]

Well yes, its SEO

[errant thicket]

should i continue working at a warehouse a pursue my degree ? what could i do on the side?

[fringe sphinx]

Anything closer to tech is better. Tech support, QA, etc

[safe coral]

Then why did the hire me? @near ocean

[near ocean]

you'd have to ask them that, why did you accept the offer?

[woven sage]

Ordinary users like yourself, non server regulars

[errant thicket]

so try to get a tech job while i’m in school for computer science that’s better?

[safe coral]

I accepted the offer because they told me I would be doing data analysis

[errant thicket]

such as tech support qa? billy?

[pine sleet]

if you're already in university working towards a CS degree you can just do internships

[true harness]

there's no real "silver bullet" to making a portfolio. just make what you're interested in

[safe coral]

I’m not even using R Python SQL or Tableau

There’s no data analysis part of it

[errant thicket]

does internships make money? c

[pine sleet]

yes

[woven sage]

Thank you, thats more along the lines of what advice Im looking for

[safe coral]

I told them I accepted the position because I thought there was gonna be data analytics to it @near ocean

[pine sleet]

for the record they are more of a regular in this channel than i am

[errant thicket]

so here’s my thing what do you think… i work at a warehouse getting my cs degree i already took one year last year so now just keep finishing my tech degree and look for internships? is that a good idea and how i can make money?

[true harness]

but if you're in a CS program, you should put effort into finding internships as well. they are longer than most freelance projects you'll work on, have more scale, and networking opportunities

[woven sage]

But freelancing is what I want to focus on, its my passion

[safe coral]

Nothing about that. I’m not using any of tools I know and they expect to know how to use the tools they have which have nothing to do with data analysis @near ocean 😩

[pine sleet]

that sounds reasonable. it's common to have multiple internships over the course of one's degree

[woven sage]

People try really hard to take that away from me/stop me from doing it for some reason

[pine sleet]

it is a path of higher resistance and less compensation. if it's something you really want to do, we can't stop you but we've given you the advice

[true harness]

that's totally fine. I know some interns at my company that do freelancing on the side along with their internship. but you should realize that internship experience is the closest thing to real work experience that you can get. that's why they are valuable

[safe coral]

The problem is I’m not given any opportunity for the position. I don’t know any of the tools they use and they expect me to come up with stuff already by next week @fringe sphinx

I was studying how to use the tools and do marketing analysis and they told me I wasted the whole week on stuff I shouldn’t have and I told them you guys hired me for this position knowing that my expertise is in data analysis and you were fine with that and now you want me to do all these things that I know nothing about . Why did you hire me to begin with and trick me into doing data analysis

[errant thicket]

ok thanks and what other things should i learn im learning python daily and what else?

[safe coral]

I mean I’m open to opportunities that I at least know some stuff about or want to be trained… I’m not trained at all?

[pine sleet]

i find that it's better to not think of it as "learning things" or putting time lengths ("i will learn python for X hours per day" or "i will learn python daily")

it is generally better imo to think of it as working on projects

[true harness]

seems like you want to quit

[errant thicket]

have you ever made money on the side of your job ? that’s also what i’m looking for i know someone has in here

[near ocean]

No because its hell to do taxes

[safe coral]

Well they said I wasn’t doing anything @true harness I wasn’t even trained on the stuff they want me to use

[errant thicket]

so just keep working on projects ? could i work on a project with you?

[safe coral]

What would you do? I’m seriously asking you

If you were in my situation. Being tricked into a data analysis position where you all do is trying to find keywords and come up with marketing strategies

[pine sleet]

yes keep working on projects. i don't really create too many projects on my own these days, most of my work is in the form of contributing to open source projects

[safe coral]

I’m not even coding… Nothing I studied is getting used in the position and I get dragged into director’s office and he says this is not a data science related position

[pine sleet]

you can either have a conversation about it in attemps to fix it or you can leave

[safe coral]

I tried. I can’t believe these people are lying

[pine sleet]

tried what? fixing it or leaving?

[safe coral]

I told them I have no expertise in the area and you guys are not providing me any training

And you tricked me into doing actual data analysis using tools I already know

[true harness]

so quit

[safe coral]

I was trying to self train today and I got into problem because I wasted my time in training. They told me that I could train on my own time at home

And they told me to this is not a job for data science it’s marketing

I got mad but I didn’t say why the hell did you hire me then? I was gonna say my resume clearly states my expertise

Nothing marketing related hahaha you guys all can see. I worked with sales department in Marriott to provide them analysis using the data already there with Python

[near ocean]

Is market analysis not data analysis?

[safe coral]

No. It doesn’t include any use of Python R Tableau Excel

[near ocean]

So? Data analysis is not about which tool you use

[safe coral]

They want me to come up with keywords they can use against the competitors

And do marketing online using those words. He specifically said today when he grabbed into his office that this is not gonna use any data science knowledge @near ocean

I have no clue what pay per click marketing strategy or whatever that is

[near ocean]

Did you not ask during the interviews what your duties would be? What you'd be doing day to day?

[safe coral]

Yeah all they said was I was gonna do data analysis

[true harness]

I mean, you can either lock in or quit. complaining does nothing

[near ocean]

This is data analysis, did you not ask what projects you'd be working on, more specifically?

[safe coral]

No they said it was entry level

And I told them what my expertise is and they said it was perfect for the position

The company is only 6 months old @near ocean lol They don’t even have their own webpage yet

I mean all other people working there which is 6 other people have degrees in marketing or social media management

[near ocean]

I guess its time to restart the job hunt then

[safe coral]

They expect me to do website content analysis

[near ocean]

And next time dont end your questions at "data analysis"

[safe coral]

My problem is why are they expecting to use tools I have no idea how to. They refuse to provide training to them too @near ocean

Like when I open the tools they have, most of the stuff I see there not something I’m used to see. Organic search keyword analysis ppc cta stuff

[near ocean]

you'll have to do some learning at every job you get

[safe coral]

And I’m self teaching myself them at work before I can do anything but they said that was a waste of time. They said they have copilot on the computers and I can use that to learn stuff

That’s the problem. They don’t let me learn the stuff. They are already expecting me write a report and I’ve been there only 4 days @near ocean

[near ocean]

ok, so you got duped into working a job you dont like
restart the job search

[safe coral]

Into a job I don’t know anything about

People usually get trained for 3 months or so before they can do anything when they get hired for a position they know nothing about

[near ocean]

No they don't, this isnt school lol

[safe coral]

Then how do they do the job they know nothing about with no previous experience @near ocean

[near ocean]

you learn on the job
the problem is not knowing nothing, its not given the chance to learn

anyway, if you talked to them about it and they wont give you the chance to learn then theres only one thing to do and its to find a different job

[safe coral]

My duties were black stuff on the whiteboard

I have no clue what any of those were. I’m not lying and I was studying for them all week. And I got dragged into the office of director cuz I was taking too long

[normal burrow]

how do i know what aspect of programming i want to go into? because i have the programming skills and some theory(to be worked on) but how do i decide what i specifically want to do?

[true harness]

try them

[normal burrow]

maybe something niche ig

something that companies need but people wont do

[near ocean]

those are mostly boring automatable tasks

[normal burrow]

yeah stuff like COBOL, goverment agencies are probably desperate in needing people to maintain old stuff

[true harness]

why do you wanna do that

[near ocean]

cobol jobs dont really go to juniors

[safe coral]

Are you talking to me? @near ocean

[near ocean]

no?

[safe coral]

Oh I thought you were referring to the stuff

Do you know any of the stuff on the board? @near ocean

[normal burrow]

the handwriting needs sorting

[safe coral]

The thing is I know nothing about the stuff he wants me to do

[normal burrow]

then ask

[safe coral]

All that crap on the board. What the hell 🤣

[near ocean]

theyre all a quick google search away

[safe coral]

Yeah but they have like long ass steps

[normal burrow]

aaaaaaaaasssssskkkkkkkkkk hhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[near ocean]

bro now it just sounds like you dont wanna do your job

how much are they paying you for this

[safe coral]

No I’m mad because they don’t give me time to learn

[true harness]

quit or lock in, stop complaining 🗿

[pine sleet]

fr

[normal burrow]

tank it

[safe coral]

Can you learn all those in a day?

And create reports and they pay 18 bucks an hour

[normal burrow]

if your built different then yes

[safe coral]

I can’t do tho. I’m already doing masters program I would rather do stuff in my own field. I was expecting to work with datasets and create insights out of them like make predictive analysis creating machine learning models

[near ocean]

Quit then

Or dont, i dont think it makes any difference so early on regarding unemployment

[safe coral]

Like they have an it guy there who makes databases. I would do that in a heart beat

[pine sleet]

wdym makes databases

[safe coral]

He creates databases

[near ocean]

Like, on the daily?

[pine sleet]

who is making databases daily yeah

[safe coral]

Nah he creates maintains

[pine sleet]

isn't your specialization more in AI and data science stuff though

[safe coral]

Then he deals with other IT stuff which I can do without training. I dunno why they chose him over me for that position

Yeah but I do a lot SQL @pine sleet

[true harness]

so..a DBA? that's not really an "IT" role. also kinda strange in such a small company

[safe coral]

He struggled adding my computer to company printer so I did it

[pine sleet]

dba is more than just knowing sql methinks

[safe coral]

Yeah I’m taking an advanced DBA class next semester

Data Management System Design is the name of course

[true harness]

using a database is different from managing one

[safe coral]

Yup I did manage a PostgreSQL database

For Marriott job I had 🤪

You need to know some C for DBM

Which is why I’m excited for my course in the fall. It says previous C knowledge in database management is preferred

[pine sleet]

can you elaborate

[safe coral]

Database servers are mostly written in C

To do server side stuff you need to know some C

[hardy depot]

Reviewing the responsibilities, they're all values that are pretty reasonable in search engine optimization.
If you do a/b testing you can drop the a group and b group into something like a support vector machine and just pick the better option.
With your experience in analyitics, you might even be able to ignore the terms and just use their values until you get a better sense of some of them.
For keywords against competitors, depending on what they mean it could be as simple as "what do people search that a competitor doesn't have on their site that we could add to make them use our service"
Techniques you can use are pretty open to you, use your experience in "selecting one from the other" and then just pick the subgroup that has the best numbers in their labels: High conversion rate or something else. Your company has an end goal in this role, and you're familiar with argmax-ing in some data science scenarios. Translate the values your manager cares about to something to maximize

[safe coral]

Bro why can’t my position let me do what you just posted

[hardy depot]

not getting support from them sucks, but it sounds like you do have a solid base and if you rely on what you know it should translate after some kludging and figuring out stuff

[safe coral]

I won’t be using any programming language @hardy depot

[hardy depot]

you can use argmax in excel

[safe coral]

No excel either

They want me to use the tools and come up with numbers like how much a competitor pays for their advertising what keywords they are buying and how can we find better keywords that gets us more clicks

[hardy depot]

I missed which tools you're able to use, what are they?

[safe coral]

And write a word report on them

[hardy depot]

many reports are written in word

[safe coral]

Semrush and Spyfu

It’s not something I worked with before

[hardy depot]

unfortunately few companies are running the leanest of tech, there's always a learning curve to how companies do them. And if it's an impossible ask then it's worth walking from the job. But if you have a solid base in data analytics you should be able to adopt. Poke the output of those tools on your companies site and competitors site and a third party unrelated site and see what stands out. The third group will help give a sense of what the outputs actually mean to you.

[safe coral]

The problem is I’m not gonna be doing any hypothesis analysis or using my coding skills or data science skills

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with the Keith. This is a 'tech adjacent role' that will build your experience and knowledge in a new domain: digital marketing.

Beggars can't be choosers: make the most of it, is what I'd do

I've had a good career because of the non tech things I've learned along the way.

[safe coral]

But they are not willing to train me @fringe sphinx I got into directors office because they said I wasnt performing well

[hardy depot]

those two tools seem nice enough, bit 'programming output for non programmers' but honestly experience in marketing is a huge selling point. Maybe take this time to learn something completely different then take that knowledge elsewhere and add it into stuff like pymc: https://discourse.pymc.io/t/hierarchical-betabinomial-for-conversion-rate-prediction/5539

[safe coral]

It’s been only 4 days… I told them I didn’t know anything in the field so

They are not providing training. I need some training on marketing. I don’t know anything about it

[fringe sphinx]

That's between you and them. Worst case scenario, you get fired and you've lost nothing. Best case scenario, you turn lemons into lemonade

If your question is how to learn digital marketing? Well, there's an endless set of videos to start watching.

[safe coral]

Yeah that’s what I was doing

And they were not happy they said they wanted to see some action lol and that my report was due on Wednesday???

[fringe sphinx]

Just remember that getting fired only returns you where you started. No harm done.

[true harness]

opportunity cost, though

[hardy depot]

Sure, but it's too late to not take the job.

[fringe sphinx]

Didn't have other offers tho, right?

[true harness]

i'm not sure when they got this part-time thing /shrug. but cutting losses by quitting is an option, and if this job is taking you somewhere you don't want to go, maybe even an attractive option

[safe coral]

The problem is it’s hard to dig into a new area when I’m in masters program. I’m already studying extensively for it and now I’m gonna study for this position too?

[fringe sphinx]

My head is spinning for sure

[hardy depot]

I'm also going to highly suggest this is a good time to analytically explore the competitors and follow your gut on unique but in brand keywords, and use those tools to help backup or disprove your gut. Knowing when to look up from numbers is a skill to, and as annoying as this sounds, you've got a good chance to learn something that a lot of data science pipelines don't pay attention to

[safe coral]

And I need more than a week to learn the basics of the job. When I first started for other positions I got trained for 3-4 weeks

Don’t you think they should train me @hardy depot

[hardy depot]

Should doesn't matter unless you're going to quit.
The matter is you're in this position. I'm trying to suggest something which I think optimizes the skills you gain from your time here. This channel isn't to vent so I want to try and think of ways to make you grow as best you can under whatever circumstance you're in

[safe coral]

I told them I need hands on training because I don’t know what I’m doing

[hardy depot]

Marketing experience is a highly sought after skill, and no reason not to add it to your skill set. If they don't want to train you that's fine, you still have a report due in a week where you're making a recommendation. It's on them if it's not as optimized as it could be

[safe coral]

And I don’t know what I’m doing

[hardy depot]

breaking it down, they want keywords to put on their site right?

[safe coral]

No they want to me search competition find what keywords they use, and come up with a marketing slogan

And competitive webpage analysis like what words they use in their websites what kind of graphics they use and how can we can improve our visibility on Google

What should we be putting on our website, what kind of ads should we run

I’m not a creative person

[hardy depot]

sure, marketing slogans aren't much different than keywords.
So sample the competition, check their twitter to see what their slogans they use are, and then think of something similar.
Then set the slogans side by side and pick a favorite, then ask yourself why it's your favorite. If it's not yours, think about what can change to make yours more favored.
Check socials again and see if anyone else is using it, and if you think it fits your company.
Then use those tools to see what words are driving clicks, and see if any of them can be added or removed to your slogan.
This is, objectively, bad advice. But it's a starting point and gives you something to compare between your company, and your competitors, and that gives you a square one.

Some words in a slogan won't drive engagement. "Chartreuse Potato" isn't really going to do much. Other words like, "We did cloudstrike" will hurt. Use those as a baseline to compare what you think would be more favorable, and ask yourself why.
You're familiar with data analytics, compare the outputs from different sites to help you understand the market, and help you think about what do people click on. Use your gut.

You're new to this, don't stress about being perfect. You just need something in the report, then hopefully you get guidance as to what is and isn't good.

View your report as your training session

[safe coral]

Well he kind of scared me when he said if he lost money on ads it will be all on you

[hardy depot]

ignore him

he hired you

he didn't train you

take this as a chance to make "you" better.

[safe coral]

But how does this help me in AI and ML?

Which is what I wanna be doing. Like ML Engineer

[hardy depot]

Sincerely, understanding why one model does better than another, and understanding what it means to interact in the real world is a skill that people often miss.

This is a chance to learn what models optimize for, what it means, what you can explain it's behavior as

and if that's not worth it, you can always find a new job

[safe coral]

But Im not working with any models

[hardy depot]

right but you're working with raw data

[safe coral]

Not really. The software creates the data automatically

And makes visualization. I wish it was raw data

So I could do some hypothesis testing

[hardy depot]

Ok. That is all my advice on how to view this. If it doesn't jive that's ok. If this job isn't worth it then you can quit. I think there's valuable skills with understanding the impact of campaigns that this role can teach you but if that's not the case to you then maybe pursue something else entirely

[safe coral]

They want me to be creative which I lack. I can’t make an ad slogan

That needs some creativity

[hardy depot]

Try it. There have been weird campaigns that worked before, and reasonable campaigns that flopped.
If ads were an exact science they wouldn't have hired anyone.
Kmart wanted you to ship your pants over their service.
You can at least make something

[safe coral]

What bugged me the most is when he said you won’t be using any data science skills in this job

[hardy depot]

Then walk.
I'm going to refrain from encouraging venting here. There's a lot of value you can use to grow here. And if it's not what you want you don't have to do it.

[safe coral]

But learning this job will help me in Machine Learning Engineering positions? @hardy depot That’s what I’m wondering

[hardy depot]

I absolutely think a) there's skills that transfer (understanding what the raw data means, and what a model means.) and b) the skills are sought after.
But if you don't think so then you can leave. It's clearly not a great leadership team. But since you're stuck there right now I don't see why you shouldn't grow while you're here

[safe coral]

He was like this company won’t be here in a year or so he said 🤣 It’s a startup @hardy depot

[hardy depot]

then it's a safe space to make mistakes and make an uncreative ad campaign

You're not trying to sink it. If you try what, given the knowledge you have, you feel is a smart campaign, then you've done what you can. And then you get to see the number results, what worked, what didn't, and start explaining why that happened. That's the really special skill you can gain here

[safe coral]

But wouldn’t people ask why I quit my part time data science position in Marriott and worked as a marketing consultant in a startup when they looked at my resume

[hardy depot]

"I thought it would further my data science skills. While it didn't, it was a startup which offered me the opportunity to explore marketing and get an intuitive sense of what data analytics optimizes for. This has improved my ability to explain what a model is doing, optimizing for, and suggesting."

As long as you can say you've grown from an experience, it adds to your value.

[hearty totem]

I think I should add to this discussion that I never ever started working at a position where I knew what I was doing. I just faked it for a week or two and by then I figured it out. No one really knows what they're doing. That's just part of the game

[hardy depot]

Some companies want something you don't have and won't see it as what they want. That's ok. Understanding how to sell the skills you've gained is going to be important

[safe coral]

I thought they would help me @hearty totem but I’m not even getting trained

Did your boss pull you in your office and give you a warning on your 3rd day? @hearty totem 🤣

[hearty totem]

Especially relevant for data science. You're expected to know some of the data beforehand but that's almost never true

[hearty totem]

You could say that that's what the probation period is for. (If you stretch the Def of the probation period of course)

[hearty totem]

Well, I did get my probation period extended in one place for "not being up to scratch". But hell, I did learn a lot from that place

Don't get too much on that advice though, I did get fired from paces too. All I'm trying to argue is that you're never fully qualified to the position you want, and that is fine - even expected

[safe coral]

The think is I never lied on my resume

[vapid jay]

It's never too late to become a criminal

[hearty totem]

"to lie" is a strong statement. E.g. listing the tech you worked with - even in passing - on the resume is fine. Even if you worked with, say, pytorch, for a week while helping people who knew pytorch well. Well, that's valid experience: you got to see pytorch in action, not only read the tutorial but did see people using it IRL, that is experience

[vapid jay]

You are fighting for yourself, put all the chances you can on your side

Don't lie but use everything you can at your advantage

[safe coral]

He was like I know we only want your numbers skill and I’m like what?

No data analytics skills used for this position hahaha

[twilit portal]

I would ask what exactly do they expect from your report
Because I don't know whether they expect to get a completed slogan and just start using it immediately
Or do they expect you to report "These are my findings so far, these are my three suggested slogans" (for example) and then they criticise your slogans and next week you can come back with another report that's better?

[hearty totem]

A startup is a place where every person contributes something different and hardly two people have the same skills. Hence getting someone to give training to another person in a small startup is kind of an oxymoron. That said, a startup is a place where every single member needs to think how their work is contributing to the overall value of the company. That sounds like a bunch of vague words , yet once you try to put your brain to think about this "value" thing - it just gets easier over time

[smoky quest]

People frequently confuse training with teaching as well

[hearty totem]

You boss is probably hinting to you that the number skills is what you should focus on to produce value. Roll with it for now

[safe coral]

@smoky quest yeah he said I should have learnt these in college

I was like I didn’t study marketing and I don’t know anything about marketing

I did work with sales before but it was for doing predictive analysis

He was like you learn how to become a SEO in college and this is not a college 🤣

[vapid jay]

I have a question. is it possible to get internships / jobs with just technical projects and no work experience?

Like if you're still a student at the moment

[true harness]

yes, that's who internships are for

[vapid jay]

How about a full-time job?

[true harness]

entry level jobs, sure. not as a student though

[vapid jay]

What if I'm doing my second Masters and I already have a Masters degree from another university. Would I still be considered a current student and not qualify for entry level jobs?

[true harness]

well if you're about to graduate then you'd apply to full time roles

[vapid jay]

I already graduated from the first one and I'm starting my second one in the fall. Also, on that note, I wanted to ask if you have 2 masters on your resume is it okay to leave off the bachelors degree?

[true harness]

i'm curious why you're doing 2 masters. but if other stuff is more relevant, i don't think it's necessary to say you have a BS if you're doing a MS

[vapid jay]

My first MS was in Computer Science. My second one is an MS in Applied and Computational Mathematics. I'm doing the second one more so out of personal interest as opposed to employment prospects. If I can find a job with it then I would consider that a side effect. I would ultimately like to work in a research position for AI / ML at a tech company. For now, I would like to be an AI / ML developer, like with TensorFlow and stuff. Traditional SWE is also fine for now but all I know is Python / SQL. Learning Tensor Flow right now.

A lot of my MS in CS courses were very theoretical so didn't really get to learn the practical stuff

[inner hemlock]

Starting my new job in two weeks and nervous 😅

[vapid jay]

congrats

[inner hemlock]

With OpenAI and I have no ML experience haha

[vapid jay]

lucky you! How did you impress them?

[inner hemlock]

They reached out to me, I have ~12 YOE as a backend engineer, and then I did really well on the interviews

[vapid jay]

well yeah, that explains it

I have ~0 YOE lol

[inner hemlock]

Ah, yeah, getting your foot in the door in the first place is the hardest part

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, just try to have a well balanced Uni experience: courses, networking (make friends and join clubs), projects (practice), and xp (internships, volunteering)

[fringe sphinx]

Pretty typical. Most grads know nearly nothing about SWE. One rec is to learn git, and a little bit about unit testing and CI/CD... makes that first job a little easier

[vapid jay]

thank you so much

[fringe sphinx]

This is a good resource: https://missing.csail.mit.edu

[vapid jay]

This should be pinned here. Thanks!

[safe coral]

Lol I talked to a friend of mine who is a hiring manager for an architectural company. He told me to go to HR immediately @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

You said small company. If you're going to do that, then just quit

[safe coral]

He thinks my situation is very unfair and that they can’t expect anything from me without formal training about using tools and the training needed to understand the concepts if I never heard of them

Most people should go through formal training before thrown into projects he said

[fringe sphinx]

Never had formal training as an engineer or analyst.

Never seen it either.

[safe coral]

He is talking about people with no backgrounds

I’m not an analyst

You are a hiring manager. If I worked for your team with no previous experience about the domain what work you expect from me in 3 days? I just wanna ask your opinion too

[fringe sphinx]

It's your choice: sink or swim. Don't hate the game.

Me, I expect continual progress. I don't expect perfect, but I expect learning.

[safe coral]

That’s the thing. I spent 2 days working on coursera learning stuff about SEO. He told me that I should have studied these in college and that this is not college

[fringe sphinx]

:shrug: not every manager is good at their job either.

[safe coral]

Would you be mad at me for studying on Coursera

He literally told me throw away the certificate from Coursera cuz it’s useless

[fringe sphinx]

Doesn't matter what I think. I know you're frustrated, but you have little control over what they think.

[safe coral]

I literally wrote like 10 pages of notes

About the concepts and he was like doesn’t matter

I’m sure you wouldn’t tell me that you have doubts hiring me in 3 days

[hollow mesa]

That’s where I come in

[safe coral]

I literally got yelled at and went into my cubicle and rest of my day was misery with sadness

[hollow mesa]

L

[safe coral]

I didn’t deserve to be treated that way. I didn’t even take lunch breaks

[hollow mesa]

American cars and JDM >>>

[safe coral]

For the last 3 days so I would be ready for the position. I crammed a 3 month stuff into 3 days

[hollow mesa]

That’s crazy but can your do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds?

[safe coral]

This is just like one of the jobs I had when I didn’t know anything about. They fired me a month later and then refused to pay me unemployment. Then I sued them and got my unemployment. Arbitrator was stunned at the treatment I got

[hollow mesa]

Crazyyyy

[safe coral]

You hire someone you need to give them more than a month to prove themselves

[hollow mesa]

IMO the BMW M8 and
M4 are pretty comparable. In terms of looks and somewhat in performance

[safe coral]

You can’t expect them to get it right immediately. This is just how it feels. I’m expected know the stuff

[true harness]

was this in the us? as an at-will employee?

[safe coral]

Yeah

[true harness]

doesn't really add up

[hollow mesa]

No he’s talking about bmw M series

[pale marten]

Do i need to know more than 1 lang to get a swe job?

[balmy spade]

You need to meet the demands of the job. That is very rarely limited to just one tool or language in software engineering.

[safe coral]

Yeah but to meet the demand you need to know what you are doing @balmy spade

If you go into a job clueless with no background you would need to adjust and it takes more than 3 days.

[balmy spade]

If you get hired for a job that you have zero qualification for, that's on the hiring team.

[safe coral]

Yeah finally thank you 🙏

During the interview I told them what I’m capable of and what I did before and they said that was perfect @balmy spade

[balmy spade]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[fringe sphinx]

A masters always has some value. May or may not help your career. I enjoyed my masters, but don't really think it (the paper) mattered in my career

[safe coral]

The hiring team knew my qualifications and told me that it was an entry level position (SEO) @balmy spade

And that my previous experience would align with it. I got hired and on my third day my director told me he has doubts because I don’t know what I’m doing @balmy spade He told me that none of my data science or previous positions would work for this and I should start thinking like marketer not like a data scientist

[fringe sphinx]

They'll care somewhat if you're interviewing for entry positions. I got mine while working (part time) so by the time it was on my resume, it was after several YoE

[balmy spade]

🤷🏽‍♀️ That's unfortunate. Good thing you are only three days in and have already learned they don't really add up to a place you want to be.

[safe coral]

I literally left my job for this kind of behavior. At least give me a month or two to prove myself

I can’t do anything in 3 days. Of course I came home and started crying

[fleet reef]

I hit Astro/TS/JS/CSS/SASS/HTML today making a frontend that talks to my Python app that gets data from a Kotlin app that I’m in the process of trying to get Hibernate working with on plain Java
It also needed a database migration and an edit to my NGINX config

Anything of any substantial complexity will bounce around to a bunch of different topics
Very little is “only 1 language”

I feel like I say that at least once a week

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I did too (startup early, then to big tech). I'm not sure I have any useful advice. Anecdotally, I went deep in our business domain and that really helped my career: understanding the big picture (biz, customers, requirements, competition, marketplace, etc) really differentiates you.

[safe coral]

So you did marketing too? @fringe sphinx

Like creating ads and stuff as a part of SWE?

[fringe sphinx]

No, but I worked with marketing and other departments. My boss at startup commented that I knew more about the biz than him.

[safe coral]

Lol I’m supposed to create an ad for a roofing company for a part of this new job

I’m still confused as to why I got hired. These were the job requirements @balmy spade

[mellow coral]

hi chat

[safe coral]

🤣🤣 I literally have none of those excepts JS and analytical thinking

[twilit portal]

Why did you apply?

[safe coral]

They contacted me on Indeed

And when I went to interview I specifically mentioned I didn’t know any marketing

[mellow coral]

is anyone know how to make a python script run with multi threads?

[safe coral]

To me it feels like they cant find anyone to work for the position (because it’s a small town)

[mellow coral]

oh wait srry wrong channel

[safe coral]

I learnt today they had 3 people previously worked for the position and left

[balmy spade]

I don't really have anything to add here. Sounds like a bad hiring choice. It's unfortunate but it happens. Cut ties, move on. There's no need to stay in a place that can't successfully field a candidate.

[safe coral]

I think they are just hiring these people hoping one of them will learn the stuff in a few days

For someone that doesn’t have any of the qualifications, 3 days wouldn’t be enough to learn right? @balmy spade

I told them I needed a few more weeks but they didn’t seem to be fine with that. They want me to write a report already next week

[balmy spade]

The timeframe doesn't matter.

[fringe sphinx]

That's certainly a fine strategy, hire fast fire fast. They gave you a shot: either it's for you or it isn't. You're just in a loop on this: go grab a beverage of your choice and think about something else, is my vote

[safe coral]

But people quit their jobs

For these kind of positions. I quit my job for this and they don’t wanna give me time to learn?

How’s that fair to me

[fringe sphinx]

You have a finite set of choices. Focus on your choices.

[hardy depot]

It isn't. But this isn't a place to vent. You've been given multiple suggestions as to how to handle this depending on what you want from it, but if you're just going to vent I'm going to ask you to stop doing so here.

[balmy spade]

There is no "fair". Take this as the learning opportunity, as unfortunate as it may be. You now know several questions to ask before taking an offer. ((even then, bait and switches can happen))

[safe coral]

I think working until they fire me would be a better option. I can look for jobs in the meantime and they can see if I’m doing any better. If they fire me I get unemployment at least

[fringe sphinx]

That seems like a sane plane. Do your best, plan for the worst.

[safe coral]

Because quitting will make me ineligible for unemployment

At least I can work a bit here and apply for jobs too 🤣

If they are not happy with my report (I doubt they will be) they can fire me anyway. They expect me land 5 new clients in a month

[hardy depot]

One note I have is to make sure you document what they say they're expecting of you, and what you do work wise. In bad cases it can help you defend yourself, but in good cases it can help you remember what you've done and how you've succeeded and excelled in your job. It's a good habit to have no matter your working scenario

[safe coral]

Okay! That’s what I exactly did on one of the jobs I worked where they refused to give me training and fired me in a month. They refused to pay unemployment as well so I took them to arbitrator. I used the documentation I have from work about my duties. Arbitrator rejected their denial of unemployment and stated that I was incapable of performing my duties due to lack of experience and training @hardy depot

[hardy depot]

Smart. It is really helpful in those cases. I want to highlight that it's really helpful in healthy workplace environments too because it helps you see what you've done, and how you've contributed to the team. That helps a lot when you want to see if you should ask for raises, career changes, different responsibilities. It's an easy thing to forget when things are going well but it helps a lot to just see, "Oh yeah. I've done a lot here"

[safe coral]

This workplace doesn’t seem healthy. Director talks stuff about other employees in other departments which I found it very unprofessional considering I just started working there

It makes you think what they talk behind you all the time… I really wanna work for a place where people treat each other with kindness and don’t talk behind

I’m yet to see a workplace like that where professionalism exists

None of my jobs had that kind of professionalism. I dunno if it exists tbh. Do companies have any standards that prevents other employees talk negatively about other employees during meetings or stuff like that?

@fringe sphinx remember the fake job offer I got? They sent me a text message…

[harsh river]

You need to remember everyone is an adult in the room, if you don’t like what they’re saying ask them to clarify, or have a private conversation with them about it, if it persists, then this is what HR is for

adulthood is largely about one thing, self advocacy

[safe coral]

Thank you all by the way for catching the fake job offer I got

• MacBook Pro 16" Display with Touch Bar-Intel Core i9. 3.2GHz processor includes a 27-inch 5K display
• Hp LaserJet Pro M15w Printer
• External hard drive/backup system
• Headset with microphone
• Networking and router capabilities
• Surge Protectors and Automated Time Tracker
• ProofHub
• GitHub
• Adobe Dreamweaver CC
• Crimson Editor
• Adobe Creative Suite software package

After signing this offer letter, we will make available to you a check to pay for the equipment listed above for your mini office. Once you receive the equipment, you can begin training.

They were gonna send a check to me buy these 🤣🤣

[smoky quest]

Do you have a 30/60/90 plan in place?

[safe coral]

What’s that? @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

Plan for your first 30/60/90 days on the job. What are the things you should be able to do, etc.

[safe coral]

I mean I would like to learn the basics by 30 days

For example, I don’t know anything about marketing. I have been studying about it on Coursera.

[smoky quest]

wait, that's the job you are doing now?

[safe coral]

Yeah…

[smoky quest]

why did you say yes?

[safe coral]

Because they said I didn’t need to know those

That they wanted to use my data analytics and numbers skills but here I am…

[smoky quest]

[safe coral]

They don’t wanna give me any time to learn anything

How am I supposed to perform without knowing the basics right? @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

something doesn't compute. Either it's expected of you or it ain't. But it looks like you already got advice anyway

[safe coral]

They read my resume right in front of me during my interview

They asked me what I am doing currently at school and stuff and they were impressed and said they would want me in the team

And I told them specifically that I had no marketing background

And my resume clearly states it 😂

[smoky quest]

I would have a 101 with manager along the lines of:

• I was under the impression these skills were not required of me
• I am hearing conflicting messages about me having to perform well with marketing skills
• How can I partner with you to be successful?

[safe coral]

He was like I don’t want you to think like a data scientist but like a marketing expert

This is my 3rd day and I got reprimanded already

They told me that my Coursera training doesn’t mean crap and that this is not school and that stuff should be learned at school

They saw my education on my resume. You did too. It doesn’t mention anything about marketing

[smoky quest]

then have fun with it. Try to think as a marketing person and yolo it.

Worst case, it will make for some funny stories in the future. Best case, you have fun with it

[safe coral]

That’s what I was planning to do until they said that they are expecting me to bring profit to the company

[smoky quest]

And in the mean time, look for another job 😉

[safe coral]

For 18 bucks an hour it feels like a crazy request

[smoky quest]

Technically, every employee should create more value than they cost

[safe coral]

Thank you so much. I’m planning to go HR as well

And ask them why was I even hired for this position. I’m gonna show the HR my resume and their qualifications and wait for an explanation from them

[smoky quest]

yeah that may help.
It doesn't reflect well on the hiring manager to hire someone clearly not fit for the role

[safe coral]

I mean if you are hiring someone with no qualifications at least give them the proper training

This is what he told me to do work on for their website @smoky quest the black ink

I had no idea what those terms were and he told me to use ChatGPT but it wasn’t very helpful so I signed myself up on a Coursera course and got a certificate and he told me to shred it

[smoky quest]

wait. hold on.
What do you mean by marketing?

[safe coral]

They do marketing for some websites

My job is to make those websites become popular by proper advertising and shit

Like find correct keywords to use in advertising slogans and stuff

[smoky quest]

Just to be clear, he is not asking you to measure the organic traffic or to measure the conversion rate, right? He is trying to ask you to think about marketing campaigns and what content to put on the websites?

[safe coral]

No those are on the tools they give already

He wants me to find keywords to use what key words would make us better and bla bla

[smoky quest]

So he doesn't want you to look at cohorts or the traffic and find the factors that drive traffic?

[safe coral]

Oh that too

Everything on that list given

[smoky quest]

If he is asking that, then I can see where he is going and that would not necessarily be marketing

[safe coral]

But you can get those easily from the tools

My problem is working on creating ad campaigns

[smoky quest]

which number is that?

[safe coral]

Keyword cannibalism

He wants me to come up with keywords for ads to buy

[smoky quest]

yeah the angle here is not marketing. It's at the cross road of engineering and data applied to the domain or marketing/seo

[safe coral]

I thought I was gonna do more technical stuff like them giving me a dataset and asking me to hypothesis testing, A/B testing, predictive analysis using R or Python and create visualization with Tableau or Python

[smoky quest]

No. Real life is far more messy than the abstract problems from school

[safe coral]

No I mean I did that in my part time job too

They would have a fiscal dataset and I would create forecasting reports

I’m not using any sorts of programming language for this job neither excel

Nothing statistical at all

[smoky quest]

I would use python or excel for the problems mentioned so far

[safe coral]

He was like tools already show us those things you need to use the tools

I would too but no programming at all @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

I mean, sure, if the tools already provide the information. But you will quickly hit their limit

and will want to correlate some info from one tool with another

[safe coral]

I will give them the results from the tools

And then work on creating ideas for ads lmao

SEO is more about how to create compelling web pages to get more clicks than programming

[smoky quest]

I think the gap here is that they aren't asking you to be a marketing person per say. But dive into the data to find the trends, clusters, etc. so that you can make informed recommendations

[safe coral]

I mean they are looking for SEO

[smoky quest]

Sure

[safe coral]

I read about content analysis and it’s all about how to think creatively

Because he wants me to dive into that next week. Like how can we improve websites

[smoky quest]

you can't improve what you can't measure

[safe coral]

Yeah but I can’t come up with any ad ideas

[smoky quest]

So what parts are doing well? Which ones aren't doing so well? Why not? etc.

[rare wing]

Marketing but not marketing, programming but not programming, using existing tools but not create new tools, and results in a short amount of time without parameters - for $18/hour. Everything about this sounds like a crime.

[smoky quest]

can you show the job description?

[safe coral]

Role Overview:

As a Digital Marketing and SEO Specialist, you’ll play a pivotal role in driving brand success through effective marketing campaigns and search engine optimization. Your expertise will enhance our online presence, engage audiences, and drive conversions.

Key Responsibilities:

Campaign Strategy and Execution:

Research advertising trends, competitor pricing, and product insights.

Decide on appropriate ad placement and content across various channels.

Develop and publish engaging digital marketing content online.

Implement email marketing campaigns to nurture leads.

SEO Optimization:

Optimize website content for search engines (on-page and off-page SEO).

Conduct keyword research and implement SEO best practices.

Monitor website performance using tools like Google Analytics and Search Console.

Collaborate with content creators to ensure SEO-friendly content.

Paid Advertising Management:

Create, monitor, and optimize paid advertising campaigns (Google Ads, social media ads, etc.).

Use SEO insights to inform ad targeting and messaging.

Report campaign performance to stakeholders.

Social Media and Analytics:

Monitor social media platforms, engage with audiences, and analyze metrics.

Leverage data to refine strategies and improve ROI.

Stay updated on industry trends and algorithm changes.

Market Research and Experimentation:

Conduct market research to inform campaign decisions.

Brainstorm and implement A/B tests, conversion experiments, and landing page optimizations

[smoky quest]

ok. More marketing than I thought. But nonetheless. All these bullets are anchored in data, which you are a specialist in.

[safe coral]

But I don’t know any of those tools

I don’t know how off page on page SEO is

[smoky quest]

they won't expect you to exceed expectations from the get go

[safe coral]

Yeah but I got reprimanded today for not performing well and it’s my third day

I told them I was working on learning SEO and they told me this was not a school to learn to stuff to use at work @smoky quest

Like I’m some sort of superman

[rare wing]

They don't want you to learn what to do?

[safe coral]

No. Because it’s called wasting their time

That’s what they said

And if I don’t know anything related to the subject how am I gonna perform right?

[rare wing]

This sounds like a crime.

[smoky quest]

learn as you go. Don't take weeks to learn each tool

[safe coral]

I finished in 3 days

[smoky quest]

learn as you go. Don't take days to learn each tool

[safe coral]

But they want me to write a report already hahaha

I didn’t even get a good grasp of what to do

[rare wing]

How much does the average employee get paid to use Google Analytics?
ChatGPT
The compensation for an employee using Google Analytics can vary widely depending on factors such as job role, industry, experience level, and geographic location. Here are some average salary ranges for roles that typically involve the use of Google Analytics:

Digital Marketing Specialist: $45,000 - $65,000 per year.
SEO Analyst/Manager: $50,000 - $80,000 per year.
Web Analyst: $55,000 - $85,000 per year.
Data Analyst: $60,000 - $90,000 per year.
Digital Marketing Manager: $65,000 - $100,000 per year.
Marketing Analyst: $50,000 - $75,000 per year.
These figures can vary based on the specific requirements of the job, the size of the company, and the location. For example, positions in major metropolitan areas or at large tech companies may offer higher salaries.

[safe coral]

In order to write a report I need to know everything thoroughly @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

Make a plan and get buy in first

[safe coral]

And I told them to be realistic

[rare wing]

Make them have everything in writing so you can report them to the Department of Labor.

Don't let them talk, have them write it down.

[safe coral]

They told me that I need to think like a marketer which I lack and stop data science thinking

[smoky quest]

you would need both

[safe coral]

He keeps stopping me everytime I wanna check stuff telling that stuff is given already and that I shouldn’t do any statistical analysis

[rare wing]

He's trying to hide something from you

[safe coral]

He wants me to come up with marketing solutions to the problems

[smoky quest]

Sure. Makes sense

[safe coral]

I don’t know how SEO works properly. I told him that

[smoky quest]

Alright. I think you are out of your depth and should focus on finding a new job

[rare wing]

He's paying you below market rate, doesn't want you to check the data, and he is actively hostile on the 3rd day.

[safe coral]

Can’t I have a job where I can code create ML models do statistical analysis on a data or do SQL

I wanna do ML and AI

[rare wing]

You said you completed Coursera, I believe Google provides employment networks for you through their Google Data Analytics

https://www.coursera.org/professional-certificates/google-data-analytics

Connect with 150+ U.S. hiring organizations in Google’s Employer Consortium

[smoky quest]

• If that's what you are looking for, the job description was pretty explicit about it not being the case
• You will always have a strong domain expertise at play in your jobs

[safe coral]

Like during my previous position, I would have access to fiscal data

I would manipulate the fiscal data using statistical methods and come up forecasting

[smoky quest]

in your future jobs, you should expect people to ask you "hey we see a drop off in user using feature X. Can you help understanding why?" and it will be up to you to understand the feature, the flows, the data at play, where it is located, what features are relevant, etc.

[safe coral]

I would be like hey guys it seems our earnings may slow down bla bla bla

Yeah like I don’t do any of those here @smoky quest

[rare wing]

Yes, that is a normal job. This "marketing" job is extremely suspect and is probably in violation of labor laws.

[smoky quest]

it's the exact same thing here

[safe coral]

But I’m not given any data here

[smoky quest]

that job does not appear to violate any labor laws

[smoky quest]

it's in the tools made available to you

[safe coral]

The data here is missing. I can manipulate or do anything on it

Yeah but most competitive websites don’t have anything available on those tools. I can’t find anything

This town has 30K population and they have like 5 companies that does roofing

[smoky quest]

welcome to real life where not everything is packaged like you are used to in school

[safe coral]

The traffic they get is so tiny that it doesn’t show up

On tools. I told them that they needed to provide me data

[smoky quest]

why?

[safe coral]

Because I can’t make any assumptions without seeing the data

How am I gonna make assumptions without working on data. He wants certain answers

[smoky quest]

wat

[safe coral]

I can’t tell how much they are paying for keywords on Google if the tools don’t show me any info on that

I enter competitors website on the tools and it returns empty (not enough info to show data about this competitor)

[smoky quest]

and?

[safe coral]

And I can’t make any analysis

He wants me to go visit those companies and gather info and stuff and I’m like erm what?

[rare wing]

He wants you to steal?

[smoky quest]

wat

[harsh river]

[safe coral]

No just get info like how much they pay for their keywords and stuff

[harsh river]

I’m so so confused

[safe coral]

I mean tools work great for websites that have wider audience

You can see organic searches keywords paid keywords and stuff but very small local companies don’t get any traction on those tools

Leaving you with nothing to work on.

They are only focusing on local competition. If it was state wide or national I would be gathering data like crazy

[smoky quest]

am not an expert in these things but I guess I could look at the keywords in the website metadata, or keywords related to the competitor and then type them in google ad?

[safe coral]

Yeah but then you don’t get any good info about how much those keywords cost and stuff

How much the companies are paying per click for those keywords

You get no info about that

[smoky quest]

Sure. Type of thing to google around or ask your manager

[safe coral]

Yeah I asked. I’m like you want me work on data but the data too limited

[smoky quest]

I hope you did not phrase it like that. Because it sounds like whining

[safe coral]

Unless we include regional or national companies into the picture

I told him that I can’t seem to grab data from our competitors on the tools you want me to use @smoky quest

And he told me that there are a lot of other ways to do it. You need to know how to do SEO

[rare wing]

Did he list those ways?

[safe coral]

No I’m supposed to know SEO

[rare wing]

He doesn't know what he's talking about 😄

If he can't answer 5WH, he's lying. (Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How)

[safe coral]

That was the argument today. He told me I was stalling and I told him I’m trying to learn how to become a SEO because that’s what you asked me to learn

And he was like this is not a college this is work you are not supposed to learn it here

[rare wing]

He's anti-college?

[safe coral]

No he expected me know how to SEO already

[smoky quest]

he probably didn't get what you were trying to do and how it fit in the task

[rare wing]

I'm so vested in who this guy is now.

[safe coral]

No I swear. I showed him my certificate. He told me to tear it apart

[rare wing]

He's anti-education?

[safe coral]

He said he worked for top marketing companies in the USA. @rare wing

[rare wing]

Which ones?

[safe coral]

I don’t understand how he doesn’t have a car thon

[rare wing]

He doesn't have a car

[safe coral]

He said he made 300K last year from his other marketing job

And that he is a top talent

Which seems suspicious to me because why is he in Bloomsburg? After being in NYC for so long

[rare wing]

So, you are correct, you are supposed to examine regional competitors and state competitors

Not get hung up on one local competitor

Everything is suspect about this guy

[safe coral]

But you live in a city @turbid bobcat

Bloomsburg is a town with no public transportation

[smoky quest]

Let's not judge people based on their lifestyle.

We may want to focus on more positive and outcome oriented discussions

[safe coral]

I wish he was more helpful tho

[rare wing]

This manager is judging someone who clearly wants to be a data scientist and demanding he be more of a marketer at $18/hour by stealing from a local competitor.

[safe coral]

Because I don’t know what I’m doing. It would be so much different if I was given opportunity to learn

But enough with this talk

[hardy depot]

This conversation has been rehashed for most of the day. I think you've gotten a lot of good advice. Let's let others talk about career stuff as well

[safe coral]

Yeah. Im done. I will see what’s gonna happen tomorrow

[tulip shoal]

Hi there!

I’m Jason, your go-to Full Stack & Blockchain & AI developer with over a decade of experience. Let’s revolutionize your projects together! 🚀

1. What I Do: I've been deep in the blockchain trenches, crafting and optimizing main pages and web interfaces for NFT games across various networks like Binance Smart Chain, Solana, Ethereum, and Waxp. While I specialize in the frontend magic, I can also flex my backend muscles when needed. Plus, I dabble in AI projects—because who doesn’t love a bit of cutting-edge tech?

2. My Tech Toolbox: Think of me as a tech Swiss army knife. Need something sharp and precise? I’ve got the tools. Whether it’s creating seamless user experiences or diving into the depths of blockchain and AI, I'm all in. My passion for learning and improving is endless, and I thrive on both positive feedback and constructive criticism.

3. Fun Fact: If I were stranded on a blockchain island, I'd probably bring my laptop (solar-powered, of course) and an endless supply of coffee. Because let’s face it, a developer without caffeine is like a blockchain without transactions—non-functional!

Ready to transform your ideas into reality? Check out my work at outflap.com, and let’s start building something amazing together!

Cheers,
Jason

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't allow ads on this server

[vapid jay]

someone here

who have used google-api

i want to have some discussion in dms

[frozen nexus]

I have used yt api if you want that also move to #python-discussion

[little abyss]

As a CS freshman, should I focus more on competitive programming or software development ?

[regal axle]

As a freshman, you should focus on growing your connections with people and professors.

But in terms of programming; it depends ™️
Competitive programming is an island onto itself. While there are transferable skills into the job market, they are more limited. But if you enjoy competitive programming, do it. Passion trumps all else.

[tulip yarrow]

Hi, Is there any job post channel here?

[near ocean]

No

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe the operative word is 'focus': as a freshman, don't focus at all. Try everything.

[regal axle]

Kinda. You do need to make an effort on connections. But yea, by focusing on knowledge acquisition, you are likely going to be in situations where you would make connections

[haughty sphinx]

Hey guysss I've just started my first semester on BTECH CSE in college and they are teaching C language for this semester but I've heard that college follows some old study patterns and I must learn either Java or Python on my own since the start to practice DSA. Can any of you please guide me a bit here with a roadmap for my first year beside my academics.
Thanks

[fringe sphinx]

Effort might be the wrong word, but 'allocate time' or 'purposefully touch grass'

[regal axle]

It is more like, you have to be open to making connections and be somewhat conscious of it. Even if not explicitly going out of your way

[fringe sphinx]

Nothing wrong wit learning C first, but yes, it's good to balance with Python (for why, see: https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023). Go to #python-discussion and ask: how do I learn Python?

I meant it more in the sense of: stop playing CoD all night and go hang out or join a club.

We don't allow ads or recruiting here, plz delete

[little abyss]

I want to focus a lot on CP and compete but if i do that i won't be able to land internships since software development skills are a requirement

I mean if I'm gonna take CP seriously I won't have much time to learn software development skills

[hazy sable]

internships are so hard to get tho

I am a bit worries since I am considering cs as a possible career path and not sure if I should go through with it since the feild looks to be very saturated

almost everyone seems to have trouble finding a job in software development

[little abyss]

That's because most companies hired a lot of people during covid

[hazy sable]

still a cs degree is very hard to get it would suck to invest all that time and effort to get nothing

[true harness]

there's really no reason you can't do both

[hazy sable]

nursing and cs?

[true harness]

i'm not sure where nursing came from

[hazy sable]

thats crazy it would take me like 8 years to finish school

omg my bad I thought you were talking to me sorry

[true harness]

it's difficult, but not impossible. most people i know have at least 1. it just takes some effort

[hazy sable]

doesnt that just show how saturated the feild is?

[little abyss]

My goal in CP is to participate in ICPC which is really hard to achieve
That's why I'm not sure if i should invest time in CP more or dev more

[regal axle]

So, first off, yea, you can do both. You don't have to do one or the other. But more than that, I would say that if you focus on the things that interest you, the rest will follow. Don't just do what others "say" is the project / skill to get a job. If you do that, you wont be interesting and are just like everyone else. If I told you that web dev is the. most popular way and easiest to get a job, would you then just focus all your time on web dev? Probably not. Nor should you.

[true harness]

why do you want to do ICPC?

[hazy sable]

I dont want to rag on cs because I am really passionate about it but I still dont understand why the job market is how it is today

[white relic]

this may be a minor thing, but I suggest not abbreviating "competitive programming"
the acronym distracts from my ability to focus on the conversation, and probably others too

[regal axle]

I am going to way over simplify it. But in short, overhire during COVID is part of it. Second, there is a ton of money in the industry. Money attracts people. There is a massive supply of new devs streaming in. These two things (plus high interest rates so harder to hire people), is causing the difficult market.

[twilit portal]

"this may be a minor thing"

[white relic]

oh agh no I didn't mean that

see what I mean?

[hazy sable]

do you see it getting better? it seems like everyone and their mother wants to major in cs today

[little abyss]

Because it looks good on a resume 😬
But don't get me wrong i do enjoy competitive programming

[buoyant seal]

Sure. Uni teaches fundamentals but not teaching often job relevant language and tech stack.
It is your own responsibility to find what u like and invest time to learn and become good if u wish working in IT perspective job role after graduation

[near ocean]

That sounds like XY problem
Do you want to compete or do you want a good CV?

[haughty sphinx]

Hnnn ohk thanks for your insights

[regal axle]

Yes. It is getting better now. But there are always going to be suply and demand missmatch. The market is correcting itself for the first time (at least in a major way). But that doesn't mean there are no jobs. There are a ton of jobs. Just also a ton of applicants. So, in short, if you are here for the passion, you will be fine. If you are only here for the money ... it is a little harder.

[little abyss]

I want a good CV more honestly
Competing alone won't get me the job offers i want

[true harness]

yeah..that would be the wrong reason to do it. ICPC is very difficult, doing it for the resume would not be a good use of time

[little abyss]

But competing in international competitions does make the CV look better though?

[regal axle]

Doing something that you care about will. ICPC specifically ,,, idc. It won't matter. But if you enjoy competitive prog and that helps get you into programming, go for it. You just don't have to focus on ICPC. That part doesn't matter. You just putting in the work and hours is far more important than a comp.

[true harness]

yes, there are a bunch of companies (typically quant 🙄) that will look at competitions like that

[near ocean]

icpc is a bit too much effort for the results you want

[hazy sable]

money is a big factor imo but still a large ammount of applicents can also mean that employers would feel like they can exploit their employees a lot more bc of how easy it is to replace them

[white relic]

that makes sense... I have a vague feeling maybe they are filtering not only for skill but also for a bit of competitiveness? maybe that would be desirable for people hiring quants

[little abyss]

I'm trying to do things that will make my resume better and that i enjoy
There's no proof of putting in the work if I don't compete or get certificates
By compete I mean both comp prog and hackathons

[regal axle]

I understand your concern. But the (US) market is not at that point. Good devs still have a ton of options and leverage. There might be small cornorrs of exploit (like game dev) but as a whole, that isn't a problem yet. Nor do I see it being one for any good devs. Maybe some of the lower 25%? Hard to say

[white relic]

I don't think I've seen competitive programming on a resume but I wouldn't feel good about a candidate who had just competitions and nothing else

[twilit portal]

Making projects can both improve your developer skills and look good on resume

[little abyss]

What does quant mean ?